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Predator
July 07, 2006, 02:16 AM
There are things we can never predict. Like the Fire Temple and, probably, also the appearance of Zetsu.

Check it all out with some Naruto 314 Goodies (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=5684.0).

So Hidan uses his jutsu once more to pwn the leader of the temple. Asuma seems to be directly related to Sandaime and "consults" with the grave of Hokage. ... And last, but not least, Kakashi explains Naruto the training program. :amuse

Ok, that's all good and stuff, but the question is - What now?

Work with your head and make your predictions!
What will Naruto come up with? What is the Fire Temple? How are our heroes related to it? Is Nibi finished and off the stage?

j0ny
July 07, 2006, 02:48 AM
dude I heard asuma was related to sarutobi. Is that fannypack/scarf thing a family thing? I hope that Naruto isn't going to fuse chidori and rasengan. I was hoping for something to make naruto a better fighter.

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 02:56 AM
Is Nibi finished and off the stage?
Hm i don´t think so...there is still Shikamaru´s sudden disappearance...and he is used to dealing with strong and bossy girls (Ino & Temari)...so i guess there is still hope for her. We´ll see.
And from what i have read in the early translations, it doesn´t seem like Naruto is going to simply fuse those attacks. There was something about an "elemental" part he should try to incorporate in his attacks...Fire Rasengan? Water Rasengan?

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 04:06 AM
Yeah, he's not fusing the attacks, he's simply going to alter the nature of rasengan to give it a different overall effect. The obvious conclusion is that it's power would be increased, but there are many ways this could go. If he were to alter it's nature as to that of an element, we can get some truelly badass attacks. For example, Sasuke's Katon, goukakyu no jutsu (I probably slaughtered the spelling) simply blew out chakra from his mouth to alter the shape into a wide arc, then he alters the nature to that of fire. We know that the shape of the rasengan is spirals, one of Naruto's trademarks; so you imbue an element with that and things could quickly get VERY awesome.

For example, smash the ground with a water style rasengan and you'd create a blast of water upwards. Smack it down when your standing on water and you'd create a huge whirlpool.

If it's imbued with earth, it would be similar to the styles of jutsu's Yamato uses; or even the fat guy from the sound four. He could smash it into the chest of the enemy and several large rocks would spiral out and through the guys chest (OUCH!). Smack it on the ground and he can use it to protect himself.

Imbued with wind? That's a tricky one but the obvious conclusion would be a huge blast of air, or using it to greatly increase his speed.

Now onto Asuma the son, does this mean Konohomaru is Asuma's kid? I'm liking the fact Asuma's had a bit of character development as he was one of my favourite jounin's, but I wonder where it goes from here.

I predict a simple prediction; more info on these monks and the continuing adventures of Hidan and Kakazu. More light shed on Asuma's background and maybe if we are really good Kakashi will finally reveal the method.

THETRUTH.com
July 07, 2006, 04:22 AM
dude I heard asuma was related to sarutobi. Is that fannypack/scarf thing a family thing? I hope that Naruto isn't going to fuse chidori and rasengan. I was hoping for something to make naruto a better fighter.


I dont think the symbol is a family thing because that symbol is on the hat worn by The Hokage. I am pretty sure that it means fire. I hope to see something original from Naruto like rasengan combine with an elemental attack like Egoboo mentioned but it doesnt seem like that type of attack would be strong enough to be known as his "ultimate ninjutsu".[br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 04:14:03 AM_________________________________________________Asuma is Sarutobi's son that is cool maybe he has inherited Enma from his father (saru does mean monkey) but I think he will have to reach a high level before he summons him Enma seems critical of his summoners.

darobertz
July 07, 2006, 04:39 AM
Yeah, he's not fusing the attacks, he's simply going to alter the nature of rasengan to give it a different overall effect.


I'm not sure about this. In Yoshitsune's translation you can read that Kakashi says this:



Kakashi: With that being said, the Rasengan is a bit different from the Chidori
since it's a jutsu to which you can only "alter its shape"

It's a jutsu that makes chakra rotate wildly at high speed while compressing it
Meaning, it's not necessary to "alter it's nature"


He clearly says, "...it's not necessary to "alter it's nature"...", since it will do damage anyway. Chidori on the other hand, you alter it's nature to make it electric (thus it wil do damage, normal chakra will not) and the alter it's shape part is to determin what kind of attack it will be (close range, long range, breath attack, using a weapon etc. etc.). So, i don't think Naruto is going to alter Ransengan and also I really hope he isn't. I want to see some new stuff from naruto, not an expansion on Ransengan.

As for a prediction, Kakashi's training method will probably be a Time-Chamber-DBZ-Mangekou-Sharigan thing, would be logical, how else would he be able to get extra time. Would be cool if Naruto would get used to it, so that in the future, when Itachi try's to use it on him, he would be immune or wouldn't be restricted in altered world.

Also, i'm gonna predict that next chapter probably will involve the start of the training of naruto, since kishi bassically closed the small akatsuki story part. There gonna turn in the body for money, so they are out of the picture for now, maybe some new or old akatsuki members will pop up, i don't know.

Well, that was my take...back to drawing...i have a deadline to make...

Gr. DaRobertz

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 04:48 AM
Kakashi: When learning the jutsu that exceeds the Rasengan, "altering its nature" will become
incredibly necessary

Naruto: I get it!
Alright! I'll alter its nature!

Kakashi thoughts: It seems like he barely got it...
But he's the type of guy that gets it through his body so it's okay

If kakashi was referring to a new jutsu, wouldn't he call Naruto out on his mistake?

He stated not two sentences after your quote that it would be incredibly necessary for the shape to be altered if the rasengan is to be exceeded.

Seems pretty consistent with the idea of altering the Rasengan. I predict he's going to take the already very powerful rasengan and 'complete' it (not to say it's unfinished, but there is so much that can be done with the move to make it new). In doing so the very nature of the move will change, so it will be treated as a new Ninjutsu with different uses.

ikuroi
July 07, 2006, 04:55 AM
My guess is that Naruto will learn to make rasengan in diffrent ways, like... one is water rasengan... one is fire....one is lightning then comes wind and etc. Like Sanadas tennis style (Prince of tennis), Naruto will do it with jutsus just. The way the rasengan will look totally diffrent for each diffrent element...!!!

Sephy7KillerMech
July 07, 2006, 04:59 AM
I can see naruto being impressed by Sasuke's fire based attacks, I would love to see Naruto incorporate fire into his rasengan. I definitly see naruto throwing spiral fireballs that explode on impact. Then again naruto has used his rasengan in water quite a bit, that might be something that would come to his mind first. hmm, i can't wait for next week.

Curry_teh_l33t
July 07, 2006, 05:59 AM
hm I'm kinda dissapointed..First of all he should increase his basic fighting abilities and whats even more important his speed! how can dat new jutsu effect someone when it wont even hit them? We saw it several times that the Rasengang was easily blocked away or was dodged... I dont think it will greatly change after the improved or remodeled rasengan... Sasuke is so fastthat Naruto would'nt even had the time to perform that jutsu! ... but if Kishi really's gonna use that DBz-timeroom-thingy Naruto wil not just gain that jutsu but the lacking speed also I guess.

If he wouldn't then exactly that would happen what i wrote above already...

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 06:04 AM
hm I'm kinda dissapointed..First of all he should increase his basic fighting abilities and whats even more important his speed! how can dat new jutsu effect someone when it wont even hit them? We saw it several times that the Rasengang was easily blocked away or was dodged... I dont think it will greatly change after the improved or remodeled rasengan... Sasuke is so fastthat Naruto would'nt even had the time to perform that jutsu! ... but if Kishi really's gonna use that DBz-timeroom-thingy Naruto wil not just gain that jutsu but the lacking speed also I guess.

If he wouldn't then exactly that would happen what i wrote above already...

As several people said before, it´s not entirely clear that Sasuke is THAT much faster than Naruto. When they met at Oro´s hideout, Naruto was almost unable to run properly from exhaustion while Sasuke wasn´t even tired since he just woke up. Bad ground for measuring, if you ask me....

Curry_teh_l33t
July 07, 2006, 06:14 AM
ok i did oversee that point.. but I still belive that just 1 new UBEr-jutsu won't make Naruto extremely strong... well we didn't see his taijutsu and speed after the training with Jirayra til now so there's still hope I guess ;)

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 06:18 AM
ok i did oversee that point.. but I still belive that just 1 new UBEr-jutsu won't make Naruto extremely strong... well we didn't see his taijutsu and speed after the training with Jirayra til now so there's still hope I guess ;)


Yeah, don't underestimate Naruto. If Sasuke had to fight Orochimaru before he fought Naruto the fight would of gone the other way. Naruto was just tired, I think he'll be perfectly capable of standing toe to toe with Sasuke if he can nail this ninjutsu and get some key pointers off of Kakashi about fighting sharingan users.

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 06:30 AM
Yeah, don't underestimate Naruto. If Sasuke had to fight Orochimaru before he fought Naruto the fight would of gone the other way. Naruto was just tired, I think he'll be perfectly capable of standing toe to toe with Sasuke if he can nail this ninjutsu and get some key pointers off of Kakashi about fighting sharingan users.

QFT. Pretty much my point of view. But i also think that a little bit of emotional training could come in handy too....his emotions are both his biggest advantage (we could see that when fighting Gaara) and his biggest flaw (see fight vs. Oro-chan). I think somewhere in the future Naruto will have to learn how to control his emotions at least partially. Not to a point where he turns into a blond variation of Neji, but enough to keep him from doing overly stupid things like going all Kyuubi when Oro merely mentioned Sasuke.
(That screwed up his chances of winning faster than anything else he could have done in my opinion.)

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 07:04 AM
If kakashi was referring to a new jutsu, wouldn't he call Naruto out on his mistake?

He stated not two sentences after your quote that it would be incredibly necessary for the shape to be altered if the rasengan is to be exceeded.

Seems pretty consistent with the idea of altering the Rasengan. I predict he's going to take the already very powerful rasengan and 'complete' it (not to say it's unfinished, but there is so much that can be done with the move to make it new). In doing so the very nature of the move will change, so it will be treated as a new Ninjutsu with different uses.


Ok, I re-read both translations currently available and I take back what I said and apologise. Kakashi seems to be simply using the Chidori and Rasengan as examples. This could very well be a completely unique Ninjutsu.

darobertz
July 07, 2006, 07:41 AM
No need to apologise, people should have there own opinion you know, otherwise, there wouldn't be a lot to predict.

Also, a new and improved rasengan could very well be Naruto's new jutsu, never said that, however, I personnaly hope it isn't, I want to see some new stuff from Naruto.



hm I'm kinda dissapointed..First of all he should increase his basic fighting abilities and whats even more important his speed! how can dat new jutsu effect someone when it wont even hit them? We saw it several times that the Rasengang was easily blocked away or was dodged... I dont think it will greatly change after the improved or remodeled rasengan... Sasuke is so fastthat Naruto would'nt even had the time to perform that jutsu! ... but if Kishi really's gonna use that DBz-timeroom-thingy Naruto wil not just gain that jutsu but the lacking speed also I guess.


Go some chapters back to the training with Kakashi, you know, the one where they redid the bell training. If i'm correct, in that chapter, they said that naruto's use of jutsus en tactics improved. Also, in the chapter where Sasuke uses his "superior" speed, Naruto didn't look suprised at all. And on top of that, since we don't know what the new jutsu is gonna be, it might involve speed etc.

I think people need to stop thinking that Naruto's new jutsu is gonna be a Chidori/Rasengan type of jutsu, as Lightreaper said, Kakashi simple uses them as example. I personnaly think it could be anything.

kubik
July 07, 2006, 08:02 AM
I personnaly think it could be anything.
Yeah you're propably right... but it would be nice to see fire based rasengan XD

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 08:14 AM
I hope the new jutsu is nothing too similar to the one Naruto knows already...but maybe this training will give Naruto the exact same thoughts we are having right now? It would be a nice way to show Naruto´s growth in brains by letting him alter Rasengan all by himself AFTER the training with Kakashi and developing that new jutsu.
And regarding everything about Asuma:
We have seen him in the need to talk to Kakashi, we saw that Kurenai is obviously somehow involved in that matter he needed to talk to Kakashi about, we learn that he -most likely- indeed was the Third´s son that maybe turned his back to Konoha and his father years ago to become one of the 12 bodyguards (thx to LightReaper for that theory), and now one of those 12 guards is dead while Asuma states clearly that he understands the way the Third thought about life...He might think about life the same way now...and it really looks like there is something going on between him and Kurenai...Now if we take in consideration the way Kishi likes to fuel the "will of fire" in the young Konoha nin....
Hey, can anyone say "tragic farewell-scene with crying lover after fighting bad guys in Robes"?

UzumakiRoman
July 07, 2006, 08:16 AM
well i don't know if this has been said but...
we keep seeing the thing about a DBZ style increase in power using Kakashi's Sharingan.
what if we look at it from Naruto's side and he trains within himself at the gate where Kyuubi is locked up.

when he first summoned Gamabunta he was falling off the cliff and in a matter of seconds he met Kyuubi and
blackmailed him for his Chakra. At that time Jiraiya wanted Naruto to learn the key to using Kyuubi's Chakra
with his body, which i believe Kakashi mentioned in this chapter, and they way he said it implied that learning
techniques with your body is a supremely important way to do it anyway..

ok my prediction is Kakashi will go a little further into is explanation, we'll get a small idea about the
technique Naruto could develop and then we'll all be on the boards like school girls talkin about the chapter after
next week!!!!!!!!

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 08:18 AM
I hope the new jutsu is nothing too similar to the one Naruto knows already...but maybe this training will give Naruto the exact same thoughts we are having right now? It would be a nice way to show Naruto´s growth in brains by letting him alter Rasengan all by himself AFTER the training with Kakashi and developing that new jutsu.
And regarding everything about Asuma:
We have seen him in the need to talk to Kakashi, we saw that Kurenai is obviously somehow involved in that matter he needed to talk to Kakashi about, we learn that he -most likely- indeed was the Third´s son that maybe turned his back to Konoha and his father years ago to become one of the 12 bodyguards (thx to LightReaper for that theory), and now one of those 12 guards is dead while Asuma states clearly that he understands the way the Third thought about life...He might think about life the same way now...and it really looks like there is something going on between him and Kurenai...Now if we take in consideration the way Kishi likes to fuel the "will of fire" in the young Konoha nin....
Hey, can anyone say "tragic farewell-scene with crying lover after fighting bad guys in Robes"?



Who dead, Kurenai or Asuma? I'd hope Kurenai as her only importance AT ALL in the manga is her tie to Asuma. Kurenai dies protecting Asuma, Asuma goes berserk and unleashes some badass Taijutsu and pwns Kakuzu, allowing Hidan to state how ironic it was that he died first.

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 08:24 AM
Who dead, Kurenai or Asuma? I'd hope Kurenai as her only importance AT ALL in the manga is her tie to Asuma. Kurenai dies protecting Asuma, Asuma goes berserk and unleashes some badass Taijutsu and pwns Kakuzu, allowing Hidan to state how ironic it was that he died first.

I was actually thinking about letting Asuma die because i don´t like him that much i think that would fit the same old line of "fallen guy sees the light and safes his love/friends/people he cares about".
...but i like your prediction better. :blink
Simply because that COULD also result in a mad Hinata (after all, Kurenai was some sort of her "replacement-mum" after her father basically threw her out).
Would also be a nice way to spread the word about Akatsuki (and maybe about Naruto being a Jiinchuuriki) when Hinata & Team is all down and is desperatly searching for the reason Akatsuki attacked.
...damn, you got me. I want Kurenai dead. :kukuku

Metris
July 07, 2006, 08:26 AM
The ultimate Ninjutsu; Ph34r t3h ultimate greatness of t3h FIREBALL RASENGAN!!!!

As for the time getting shorter, it's obvious that it's going to be inside the Mangekyõ.

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 08:26 AM
I was actually thinking about letting Asuma die because i don´t like him that much i think that would fit the same old line of "fallen guy sees the light and safes his love/friends/people he cares about".
...but i like your prediction better. :blink
Simply because that COULD also result in a mad Hinata (after all, Kurenai was some sort of her "replacement-mum" after her father basically threw her out).


I don't think Hinata will ever get mad, unless Naruto dies (I actually have an idea in my head for a fan fic relating to that); or her father dies by say.... Neji's hands?

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 08:33 AM
I don't think Hinata will ever get mad, unless Naruto dies (I actually have an idea in my head for a fan fic relating to that); or her father dies by say.... Neji's hands?

Mad was definetely the wrong word to use there....sad and/or disillusioned would be more fitting. I edited my post earlier, unfortunately too late for you to see it. I meant to say that i would be a nice way to let more people know about Naruto since casualties among the Jounin would most likely force Tsunade to tell at least Team 8 about the reason Akatsuki attacked.They will find out sooner or later, and the more drama is involved, the better it is for us readers ^^
Edit (again): apart from the drama...it does give Hinata a nice possibility to tell Naruto that she would never hate him for what he is
(yes, I´m not only a Naru/Ino fanboy as you can tell)

LightReaper
July 07, 2006, 08:39 AM
Mad was definetely the wrong word to use there....sad and/or disillusioned would be more fitting. I edited my post earlier, unfortunately too late for you to see it. I meant to say that i would be a nice way to let more people know about Naruto since casualties among the Jounin would most likely force Tsunade to tell at least Team 8 about the reason Akatsuki attacked.They will find out sooner or later, and the more drama is involved, the better it is for us readers ^^
Edit (again): apart from the drama...it does give Hinata a nice possibility to tell Naruto that she would never hate him for what he is
(yes, I´m not only a Naru/Ino fanboy as you can tell)


I can just picture how pissed off Kiba would get, and Shino, i'm dying to see an angry Shino. I mean all three of them must be pretty close to Kurenai, so the resulting fight of team Asuma and team Kurenai minus Kurenai and Akatsuki would be pretty badass.

And who would Hinata turn to in her time of emotional need after the fight and she's inevitably taken out of action, well ill leave it for you to guess (pst look at my sig).

Egoboo
July 07, 2006, 08:46 AM
And who would Hinata turn to in her time of emotional need after the fight and she's inevitably taken out of action, well ill leave it for you to guess (pst look at my sig).

Why would she turn to randomized One Piece-characters?
j/k
And thanks for mentioning Kiba and Shino...hm that would even stress out the "drama"-part even more...imagine the Dawnies revealing the reason they are in Fire country to an enraged Team 8 and 9 (Team Asuma = 9?). And while they are at it...well it´s not too hard to make them say something along the line "Just like that Fox-vessel from your village" i guess.
Well as most of you can already see, I´m kinda anxious to let the rest of the Rookie 9 know about Naruto being a Jinchuuriki ^^´´

tof
July 07, 2006, 08:48 AM
Kakashi thoughts: It seems like he barely got it...
But he's the type of guy that gets it through his body so it's okay

when i read this it made me think back to hunter x hunter where kilua does some electrical attack which is a specialty from it's clan. What's related with kakashi thought is that to learn how to create electricity, kilua had a special training (torture?) where he gets eletrocuted all day. Only with this training he was able to quickly master it.

So maybe it will be the same with naruto, needing to feel the element he wants to change its chakra into.

lentharius
July 07, 2006, 09:04 AM
As mentioned earlier I agree that he isn't necessarily making Naruto learn how to alter the Rasengan into elements or whatnot. I predict that he is teaching Naruto at least one thing that, for some weird reason, no one ever taught him how to do. And for him to create all kinds of new jutsus altering the the chakra is necessary. I also agree he only mentioned Rasengan and Chidori as examples to help Naruto grasp it a little better.

Edit:
And I also think next chapter instead of using words to explain what he's doing, I can totally see Kakashi saying "and the training is..." and then lifting up his forehead protector and smacking him into the other world with MS.

Predator
July 07, 2006, 09:08 AM
By the way Kakashi told Naruto about the elements, I think that the method might be intense battle one on one with Kakshi throwing random justus at him. That way it'll be extreme and fast. Naruto's stamina will help him endure the training, but Kyuubi will heal him, if needed. That might be the reason, why only Naruto can do the training.

BTW ..... try to stick on topic more. Talks about full scale war aren't for next chapter predictions.

extrasport161
July 07, 2006, 10:15 AM
all i know is that i hope to god its on time next week... as much as i like everything going on all at once, each little peice of the story then progresses sooooo slowly. i mean, next chapter's going to have to have something about asuma, something about naruto's training, something about the monks, and whatever else i'm forgetting or comes up as new... [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 10:13:06 AM_________________________________________________and about the whole kyubi... do we even know if he's still there? or if naruto can even tap into his power anymore, even if he wanted too (which i'm not saying he does or will need to, just hypothetically). i mean, what effect did sauske have on the kyubi's power when he made him go *poof!*? does naruto still benefit from the healing factor?

body flicker
July 07, 2006, 10:21 AM
all i know is that i hope to god its on time next week... as much as i like everything going on all at once, each little peice of the story then progresses sooooo slowly. i mean, next chapter's going to have to have something about asuma, something about naruto's training, something about the monks, and whatever else i'm forgetting or comes up as new... [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 10:13:06 AM_________________________________________________and about the whole kyubi... do we even know if he's still there? or if naruto can even tap into his power anymore, even if he wanted too (which i'm not saying he does or will need to, just hypothetically). i mean, what effect did sauske have on the kyubi's power when he made him go *poof!*? does naruto still benefit from the healing factor?
yes naruto still does have control over the nine tails when sasuke did that it was only for the min. so the kyubi could not attack him

and i think the kyubi left on his own

ensui11
July 07, 2006, 10:24 AM
I think Sasuke made the Kyuubi go away for a while back then.
Anyway, does anybody know the next chapter's teaser :s ?

I think Asuma might die, or he's somehow connected to the Akatsuki invasion. He may be one of the bad guys. There's definitely something suspicious going on there o.O

siegfried
July 07, 2006, 10:25 AM
By the way Kakashi told Naruto about the elements, I think that the method might be intense battle one on one with Kakshi throwing random justus at him. That way it'll be extreme and fast. Naruto's stamina will help him endure the training, but Kyuubi will heal him, if needed. That might be the reason, why only Naruto can do the training.



naruto's stamina will help him endure the training it is obvious but who will help kakashi to endure?He is not that capable himself.

for prediction next week we will see akatsukis again (most probably zetsu) and a little more from Asuma.

angry
July 07, 2006, 10:33 AM
Hmm i just figured something out... Kakashi said that Naruto would surpass even Kakashi and Kakashi has powers similair to Sasuke... so maybe Kakashi is gonna train Naruto in a way that takes advantage of Kakashi's weak spots. I.e. teach Naruto to counter his Sharingan and Chidori attacks.

However it wouldn't help him a lot against other opponenents.. so i guess its not full proof ^^

Forget what i said =P

odeon
July 07, 2006, 11:04 AM
ho I just remebered when Yamato said that Naruto was special to be able to manipulate Kyubi chakra witch obiviously had some sort of altered nature... so Naruto probably already talented in this sort of thing, more, that's probably the reason why Kakashi told him that he was the only one able to do it

Darrenj
July 07, 2006, 11:06 AM
when i read this it made me think back to hunter x hunter where kilua does some electrical attack which is a specialty from it's clan. What's related with kakashi thought is that to learn how to create electricity, kilua had a special training (torture?) where he gets eletrocuted all day. Only with this training he was able to quickly master it.

So maybe it will be the same with naruto, needing to feel the element he wants to change its chakra into.


Ironicly they stole that from the first season of the Pokemon anime (which came out first) :D Pikachu gets trained for the rock gym battle by being eletrocuted all day

I predict Asuma also has the specail abilty bloodline, which means he will be part of the training
reason why we saw Asuma backstory and story of the 12gaurds was because hes going to finally use the abilty, and the reason he spoke to kakashi in 313

Naruto starts training, last monk reaches konaha, we see the plant guy with the kitty setting up kitty for the ritual back at home base

Eldanis
July 07, 2006, 11:09 AM
For me, some of the revelations in this chapter bring about some ideas from the previous few.

Before we thought when Kurenai entered the hospital room that Asuma was going to talk about their possible relationship. However with the knowledge of Asuma being a guard of the Lord of the Country of Fire it feels more likely to me that he was going to talk to Kakashi about it but stopped when Kurenai entered the room because she is maybe forbidden to know something about the followers? This could be because she is somehow related to this Lord of the Country of Fire or maybe IS the Lord of the Country of Fire.

However, if this is true it could be that Asuma is kinda like Kurenai's guardian which is why they always hang together and Asuma was talking to Kakashi because he is worried that Akatsuki might be coming after Kurenai but stopped when Kurenai entered because he didnt want to worry her?

Its late and im just throwing ideas out there >_<

For the new jutsu well I'd say its about time Naruto learned to do something with those god damn bunshins; its the first move he learns, he uses them at least twice every fight and yet he hasnt learned to do anything with them yet apart from moving him in the air. It wont be anything like the Rasengan or Chidori as Kakashi states he uses them on as examples. Id like to see a jutsu that helps Naruto get from ranged combat into close combat really quickly wether it be by increasing his speed or throwing clones at his enemies at fast speed or something that allows him to get close.

We also havent seen naruto use "that jutsu" (Referring to Chapter 251 where Team Kakashi set out to Sand to save Gaara and Jiraiya appears and tells him not to use "that jutsu"). He could of been referring to naruto cracking out 4 tales as just before he states that he should try and stay level headed but who knows.

Anyway for next chapter, my guess would be we get some more information on the Twelve Guardians of Lord of the Country of Fire, we finally find out what the training is but maybe nothing about Akatsuki or very little as our new friends are going to hand that monk in for $$.

siegfried
July 07, 2006, 11:14 AM
ho I just remebered when Yamato said that Naruto was special to be able to manipulate Kyubi chakra witch obiviously had some sort of altered nature... so Naruto probably already talented in this sort of thing, more, that's probably the reason why Kakashi told him that he was the only one able to do it


actually it wasnt manipulating,he is special because he can endure kyubi chakra.

we didnt see anything sai and sakura wouldnt do.I think they can learn forming rasengan if someone teach them.The fact that sakura doesnt need rasengan is another thing.The reason they are not suitable for training must be about training method that kakashi is unable to tell us.

body flicker
July 07, 2006, 11:31 AM
For me, some of the revelations in this chapter bring about some ideas from the previous few.

Before we thought when Kurenai entered the hospital room that Asuma was going to talk about their possible relationship. However with the knowledge of Asuma being a guard of the Lord of the Country of Fire it feels more likely to me that he was going to talk to Kakashi about it but stopped when Kurenai entered the room because she is maybe forbidden to know something about the followers? This could be because she is somehow related to this Lord of the Country of Fire or maybe IS the Lord of the Country of Fire.

However, if this is true it could be that Asuma is kinda like Kurenai's guardian which is why they always hang together and Asuma was talking to Kakashi because he is worried that Akatsuki might be coming after Kurenai but stopped when Kurenai entered because he didnt want to worry her?

that prediction is a very good one and it could happen but it sounds like the hyuga clan to much

and i think that kishmoto would go into more detail with neji and hinata before he starts a new one of those relationships

but it cuold happen

Toad Sage
July 07, 2006, 11:56 AM
I think the most relevant lines in the entire chapter for determining what's going to happen next is Asuma's monolouge at Sandaime's grave. I wonder why he would be confessing guilt over detaching himself from the village as the Akatsuki approach Konohoa for an invasion... Also, to me the view of the carved face seemed kind of forbidding, like to imply Sandaime was displeased.

I believe that either Asuma alone or both Asuma and Kurenai are involved in this plot to overthrow Konohoa. Remember Akatsuki had spies in the Sand that were high ranking, and as we saw in this chapter, Asuma is one of the twelve guardians of the Hokage. If Asuma is a defector, that could explain Shikamaru's disappearance-who knows, maybe Shikamaru is a willing participant, as he never seemed to care for the idea of a woman Hokage.

I don't get the point of the Fire Temple part other than to show they can beat someone up who is supposedly badass. I think I got that the first time I watched them wax a giant flaming cat. So that part was kind of pointless.

Lastly, I don't think Naruto is going to invent a flaming or eletrical rasengan. I don't think adding those effects to rasengan will make much of a difference to its overall effect since it inflicts most of its damage by swirling. The main themes of Naruto are his fox form, his clones, and his unpredictable nature. The new jutsu must involve on of these aspects electrified or something. Perhaps the super bunshin theory everyone is throwing around will be correct after all.

Zek
July 07, 2006, 12:04 PM
I think the next chapter will focus on Naruto's training. Nothing much else is going on right now until that monk gets to Konoha, which may happen in the end of the chapter.

bahazero
July 07, 2006, 12:12 PM
Something tells me that Asuma is more powerful than he lets on. If you remember from the chuunin arc, Asuma tells Kurenai that because she is a new jounin she doesn't know about Ibiki. This means that Asuma has been a Jounin for a while. I think what happened was is that Asuma as a kid has a similar reaction to Konohamaru to being the Hokage's son, and leaves the village for some time, to make a name for himself, as Kakashi did in Anbu becoming the copy ninja. As part of this he gains the position of becoming one of the Feudal Lords bodyguards. He later comes back to the village, and takes on the job of Jounin, and eventually leading the Team 10. After all the events that happened recently (sand/sound invasion) he realizes the error of those ways, and now accepts his heritage as a Sarutobi (summon Enma, anyone?), perhaps in preparation for marrying Kurenai, who knows.

It's important to realize that even though Naruto is involved in many different story arcs, it doesn't mean that the story will revolve around him, and his search for Sasuke or Akatsuki capturing him. For example, the search for Tsunade started out as a training mission, and something about finding a woman, not the 5th Hokage. The sand/sound invasion started as a chuunin exam. Kishimoto is too good at developing plots to come up with something as simple as an invasion, there's always a deeper plot going on than that we see. So I eagerly wait to see what new plot twists there are :-)

Kyuubi King
July 07, 2006, 12:24 PM
just a random guess but with kakashi saying u had to shape change and alter its nature it could be the fourths technique shishuin no jutsu or hiraishin no jutsu (sp?)naruto would have to chape the shape of space and bend it and have to alter it so he could move himself from place to place?
just an idea

body flicker
July 07, 2006, 12:35 PM
i dont get it coould you explain more kyuubi king

Toad Sage
July 07, 2006, 01:02 PM
I don't think that your examples Bahazero show how the storyline can drastically diverge from focusing on Naruto. I don't think Kishi is going to go off on a tangent about Asuma in the middle of a tense period in the story. I think that Asuma showing up is strictly relevant to the arrival of Akatsuki, and whether Asuma plans to help them or defeat them himself is conjectural, but all the same, the only possible two reasons he's being featured right now in the story.

4ghost
July 07, 2006, 01:09 PM
Since they were talking about the shape and nature of chakra I think his new jutsu might still have something to do with his name. Perhaps it will be some type of Vortex with Naruto as the eye of the storm. If he's to be able to change the nature of his chakra it most likely the element of wind would be used, but it is not impossible for him to create the vortex with a variety of elements like water and fire. With utilizing the elements I guess I can also see a jutsu that in some ways mimicks Neji's Kaiten.

So in short I'm expecting to see further play on the name Uzumaki. A vortex, eddy, whirlpool or spiral will likely be the outcome of the training.

I think that most of the training will be done off scene, but only after we find out that the means to tke care of the matter of time is the Tsukuyomi. Although we have an idea of what wll be focused on the way for this training to be accelerated was still left a mystery.

bahazero
July 07, 2006, 01:32 PM
I never meant that the focus would leave Naruto. Naruto will definitely play a part in the coming arc, and be important. But that doesn't mean the arc won't be tangentially not about Naruto and his immediate concerns, i.e. Itachi coming after him or Orochimaru. When Akatsuki is involved, people seem to almost immediately think its something about them coming after Naruto, when in fact that may not be the case. In fact, while Naruto will be involved, the actual arc will be about some greater thing, involving Asuma, the Feudal Lord probably, and Kurenai imo.

Kyuubi King
July 07, 2006, 01:35 PM
i dont get it coould you explain more kyuubi king
well hiraishin it wat the fourth used to move instanlty from place to place where he had thrown his special kunai..hence the name konohas yellow flash...
this info below is from another post on another website
The 4th hokage had a jutsu called the flying thunder god technique aka hiraishin no jutsu. This allowed yondaime to bend space and time and travel instantly between places he had left special kunai at. Now if someone with sharingan had ever seen this jutsu, wouldnt they be able to do it as well? And if it cant be copied does that mean it was a bloodline limit? If it was thats pretty cool. And for those who believe naruto is his son well that means naruto can one day do it too. That would be cool.
and i found this there to which came from wikipedia:

Name: Hiraishin no Jutsu, 飛雷神の術, literally "Flying Thunder God Technique" Type: S-rank, Supplementary, All ranges
Users: Yondaime Hokage

the jutsu of the Yondaime Hokage and the reason behind his nickname "The Yellow Flash of Konoha" (木ノ葉の黄色い閃光, Konoha no Kiiroi Senkō).

This jutsu allows the user to move over large distances with ultra-high speed. Although it is often compared with the Shunshin no Jutsu, the speed of the Hiraishin is much faster than that of the Shunshin and the principle behind Hiraishin is similar to Kuchiyose no Jutsu.

To activate this jutsu, the user needs a special seal or "Jutsu-shiki" (術式, "Technique" or "Jutsu formula") to mark the destination. After this is done, the user can almost instantaneously transport himself to the location of the Jutsu-shiki.

The Yondaime applied the Jutsu-shiki in advance to weapons such as kunai. It is also possible to leave a Jutsu-shiki in an area touched by the user.

It is one of the few only known non-Kekkei-Genkai techniques created that the Sharingan/Byakugan cannot follow. It is because of this technique that Konoha came out victorious in the Iwa-Konoha Ninja War.

body flicker
July 07, 2006, 01:44 PM
well hiraishin it wat the fourth used to move instanlty from place to place where he had thrown his special kunai..hence the name konohas yellow flash...
this info below is from another post on another website
The 4th hokage had a jutsu called the flying thunder god technique aka hiraishin no jutsu. This allowed yondaime to bend space and time and travel instantly between places he had left special kunai at. Now if someone with sharingan had ever seen this jutsu, wouldnt they be able to do it as well? And if it cant be copied does that mean it was a bloodline limit? If it was thats pretty cool. And for those who believe naruto is his son well that means naruto can one day do it too. That would be cool.
and i found this there to which came from wikipedia:

Name: Hiraishin no Jutsu, 飛雷神の術, literally "Flying Thunder God Technique" Type: S-rank, Supplementary, All ranges
Users: Yondaime Hokage

the jutsu of the Yondaime Hokage and the reason behind his nickname "The Yellow Flash of Konoha" (木ノ葉の黄色い閃光, Konoha no Kiiroi Senkō).

This jutsu allows the user to move over large distances with ultra-high speed. Although it is often compared with the Shunshin no Jutsu, the speed of the Hiraishin is much faster than that of the Shunshin and the principle behind Hiraishin is similar to Kuchiyose no Jutsu.

To activate this jutsu, the user needs a special seal or "Jutsu-shiki" (術式, "Technique" or "Jutsu formula") to mark the destination. After this is done, the user can almost instantaneously transport himself to the location of the Jutsu-shiki.

The Yondaime applied the Jutsu-shiki in advance to weapons such as kunai. It is also possible to leave a Jutsu-shiki in an area touched by the user.

It is one of the few only known non-Kekkei-Genkai techniques created that the Sharingan/Byakugan cannot follow. It is because of this technique that Konoha came out victorious in the Iwa-Konoha Ninja War.
i know what the 4th justu is its just that he used kunai and summining tag so how is naruto going to use it just by bending space and time with his chakra

thats what i was talking about

rocker2
July 07, 2006, 02:24 PM
There were two big themes to this chapter: the first being Naruto's training and the second being Asuma background. Both have particular relevance I think to the coming up chapters.

**Naruto's training**

The two key points brought up here are "altering the shape" and "altering the nature" of the jutsu. The "altering the nature" point is key here. Kakashi specifically points out that Naruto will need to learn how to do this and do this well to make his new jutsu. Thus, this is something Naruto cannot already do. Also, this jutsu will be a jutsu that only Naruto will be able to use and perform. Therefore, take genjutsu, super taijutsu, water elemental, fire elemental and electrical elemental attacks out of the picture. Why are we taking out water, fire and electrical elemental attacks out when they require "altering the nature?"

We need to take rasengan, Jiraiya, Sasuke and Kakashi into consideration. Rasengan by its very nature is able to utilize water manipulation and Naruto trained utilizing water. Kakashi specifically brought up that this jutsu will surpass rasengan and will only be something Naruto can do. Thus, any direct manipulations of rasengan will not be used as both Naruto would find this fairly simple and Jiraiya would have no problem utilizing such modifications either. As for fire elemental, that is Sasuke's specialty. Utilizing fire elemental attacks in front of an Uchiha is basically inviting them to copy your jutsu upfront. So definitely not. As for electrical elemental, both Sasuke and Kakashi utilize this type of "altering of nature." Also, we have seen Sasuke's proficiency at electrical element alteration with his Chidori Nagashi. Thus, it is highly unlikely Naruto will go that route. Also, super speed and strength (without some extra "alter the nature" type element) and illusions/genjutsu is out of the picture too as they miss one of the two points. Also, all wind type element jutsus are out of the picture too since these can be seen as a direct shape modification of chakra like rasengan. We might see a vortex jutsu performed by Naruto, but it will not be his ultimate jutsu.

Are we going to see a combo rasengan-chidori? Maybe later in the story, but this will highly unlikely be Naruto's supreme jutsu since such a technique would still be usable by someone else and he doesn't have the sharingan to maximize the proficiency of the chidori. So what do we have left? I have mentioned my chakra crystal jutsu theory before. This would definitely fit the bill. However, there are other possibilities too. The key here is that the possibilities are all now directly-linked with very irregular jutsu manipulation (like the 1st's mokuton jutsu) or space-time manipulation. This makes sense though since these would be jutsus which cannot be copied by other parties, including Kakashi himself. Of course, as the jutsu will be highly irregular, predicting it becomes very difficult. Direct elemental usage is out so we have to really think out of the box. I'm interested to hear everyone's ideas.

**Asuma background**

The second important theme was showing Asuma as a current or ex-guard of the 12 elite guards of the feudal lord of Fire Country. Also, he is Sarutobi's son. Next, is his close relation to Kurenai (she practically has him on a leash). Finally, there is an issue which he can speak to Kakashi about, but not Kurenai and is not so pressing that he needs to speak to Kakashi about it immediately. The fact that the Akatsuki entered this storyline boosts its importance, but in what way I have no idea. Anyway, Asuma will probably be coming to the forefront in the next couple of chapters. Makes sense since out of the teams of the Genin 9, Asuma's and Kurenai's still have yet to make a full showing in battle.



well hiraishin it wat the fourth used to move instanlty from place to place where he had thrown his special kunai..hence the name konohas yellow flash...
this info below is from another post on another website
The 4th hokage had a jutsu called the flying thunder god technique aka hiraishin no jutsu. This allowed yondaime to bend space and time and travel instantly between places he had left special kunai at. Now if someone with sharingan had ever seen this jutsu, wouldnt they be able to do it as well? And if it cant be copied does that mean it was a bloodline limit? If it was thats pretty cool. And for those who believe naruto is his son well that means naruto can one day do it too. That would be cool.
and i found this there to which came from wikipedia:

Name: Hiraishin no Jutsu, 飛雷神の術, literally "Flying Thunder God Technique" Type: S-rank, Supplementary, All ranges
Users: Yondaime Hokage

the jutsu of the Yondaime Hokage and the reason behind his nickname "The Yellow Flash of Konoha" (木ノ葉の黄色い閃光, Konoha no Kiiroi Senkō).

This jutsu allows the user to move over large distances with ultra-high speed. Although it is often compared with the Shunshin no Jutsu, the speed of the Hiraishin is much faster than that of the Shunshin and the principle behind Hiraishin is similar to Kuchiyose no Jutsu.

To activate this jutsu, the user needs a special seal or "Jutsu-shiki" (術式, "Technique" or "Jutsu formula") to mark the destination. After this is done, the user can almost instantaneously transport himself to the location of the Jutsu-shiki.

The Yondaime applied the Jutsu-shiki in advance to weapons such as kunai. It is also possible to leave a Jutsu-shiki in an area touched by the user.

It is one of the few only known non-Kekkei-Genkai techniques created that the Sharingan/Byakugan cannot follow. It is because of this technique that Konoha came out victorious in the Iwa-Konoha Ninja War.

It is possible, but keep in mind that this jutsu has already been created so Naruto's will have to be a new version of this. Also, keep in mind this jutsu is a secret jutsu, not a bloodlimit. It is possible for others to learn this jutsu if the 4th teaches it to them. The jutsu just cannot be copied without direct instruction by the jutsu user. However, what Kakashi I believe has in mind is for Naruto to create a jutsu that only he can use - thus it cannot be taught to another. Not to mention that since Kakashi will be with Naruto 100% of the way, he will be learning the jutsu at the same time as Naruto. Thus, Hirashin itself will unlikely be the jutsu itself (might be a part of it though).

zetsuie
July 07, 2006, 02:43 PM
i think naruto new jutsu will be drum roll raiden its an s rank attack also i think that he might learn an extremely powerful defensive move so he can protect him self from sasukes speed and he will proably end up merging his chakara with the ninetails but none of this will be revealed in 315 what will be revealed at the end his how kakashi is going to train naruto pretty sure ms i didnt want to believe it at first but now its pretty much certain kinda lame although kishi could still surprise me[br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 02:41:37 PM_________________________________________________also if you have been watching the anime its been revealed that naruto has good intuiton about an enemys location maybe hes physcic

laughing@you
July 07, 2006, 02:44 PM
There were two big themes to this chapter: the first being Naruto's training and the second being Asuma background. Both have particular relevance I think to the coming up chapters.

**Naruto's training**

The two key points brought up here are "altering the shape" and "altering the nature" of the jutsu. The "altering the nature" point is key here. Kakashi specifically points out that Naruto will need to learn how to do this and do this well to make his new jutsu. Thus, this is something Naruto cannot already do. Also, this jutsu will be a jutsu that only Naruto will be able to use and perform. Therefore, take genjutsu, super taijutsu, water elemental, fire elemental and electrical elemental attacks out of the picture. Why are we taking out water, fire and electrical elemental attacks out when they require "altering the nature?"

We need to take rasengan, Jiraiya, Sasuke and Kakashi into consideration. Rasengan by its very nature is able to utilize water manipulation and Naruto trained utilizing water. Kakashi specifically brought up that this jutsu will surpass rasengan and will only be something Naruto can do. Thus, any direct manipulations of rasengan will not be used as both Naruto would find this fairly simple and Jiraiya would have no problem utilizing such modifications either. As for fire elemental, that is Sasuke's specialty. Utilizing fire elemental attacks in front of an Uchiha is basically inviting them to copy your jutsu upfront. So definitely not. As for electrical elemental, both Sasuke and Kakashi utilize this type of "altering of nature." Also, we have seen Sasuke's proficiency at electrical element alteration with his Chidori Nagashi. Thus, it is highly unlikely Naruto will go that route. Also, super speed and strength (without some extra "alter the nature" type element) and illusions/genjutsu is out of the picture too as they miss one of the two points. Also, all wind type element jutsus are out of the picture too since these can be seen as a direct shape modification of chakra like rasengan. We might see a vortex jutsu performed by Naruto, but it will not be his ultimate jutsu.

Are we going to see a combo rasengan-chidori? Maybe later in the story, but this will highly unlikely be Naruto's supreme jutsu since such a technique would still be usable by someone else and he doesn't have the sharingan to maximize the proficiency of the chidori. So what do we have left? I have mentioned my chakra crystal jutsu theory before. This would definitely fit the bill. However, there are other possibilities too. The key here is that the possibilities are all now directly-linked with very irregular jutsu manipulation (like the 1st's mokuton jutsu) or space-time manipulation. This makes sense though since these would be jutsus which cannot be copied by other parties, including Kakashi himself. Of course, as the jutsu will be highly irregular, predicting it becomes very difficult. Direct elemental usage is out so we have to really think out of the box. I'm interested to hear everyone's ideas.

**Asuma background**

The second important theme was showing Asuma as a current or ex-guard of the 12 elite guards of the feudal lord of Fire Country. Also, he is Sarutobi's son. Next, is his close relation to Kurenai (she practically has him on a leash). Finally, there is an issue which he can speak to Kakashi about, but not Kurenai and is not so pressing that he needs to speak to Kakashi about it immediately. The fact that the Akatsuki entered this storyline boosts its importance, but in what way I have no idea. Anyway, Asuma will probably be coming to the forefront in the next couple of chapters. Makes sense since out of the teams of the Genin 9, Asuma's and Kurenai's still have yet to make a full showing in battle.
It is possible, but keep in mind that this jutsu has already been created so Naruto's will have to be a new version of this. Keep in mind this jutsu is a secret jutsu, not a bloodlimit. It is possible for others to learn this jutsu if the 4th teaches it to them. The jutsu just cannot be copied without direct instruction by the jutsu user. However, what Kakashi I believe has in mind is for Naruto to create a jutsu that only he can use - thus it cannot be taught to another. Not to mention that since Kakashi will be with Naruto 100% of the way, he will be learning the jutsu at the same time as Naruto. Thus, Hirashin itself will unlikely be the jutsu itself (might be a part of it though).


Holy crap man!!! Where do you get your inspiration?

Like you mentioned I really doubt it would be a resengan variation.

When Kakashi says only you can do, I see it more as something naruto will develop that nobody has!!!

Cuz Kakashi invented Chidori but later was taught and copied to Sasuke. Same was with the rasengan, Jiraiya invented it, the 4th learned it and naruto to.

So it won't probably be a technique that others can't use.

The jutsu probably will depend on what naruto wants to do. kakashi developed his chidori wanting to cut anything or penetrate anything. So transformed his chakra in to lightning.

So will have have to wait an see what direction Naruto takes for hisnew jutsu!

Imagine kakashi saying the trick to learn the jutsu fast is....

To get in my Belly!!!

I want my baby..baby..baby back ribs!!!!!

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 03:36 PM
heh read couple of the first post ant it had altering the nature of rasengan heh well then i would say the jutsu is to friggin simple i want naruto to have his own idea of distructon some thing completely unrelated with chidori or rasengan ehh its jus me thoughts but still i wish for it [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 03:31:07 PM_________________________________________________

Holy crap man!!! Where do you get your inspiration?

Like you mentioned I really doubt it would be a resengan variation.

When Kakashi says only you can do, I see it more as something naruto will develop that nobody has!!!

Cuz Kakashi invented Chidori but later was taught and copied to Sasuke. Same was with the rasengan, Jiraiya invented it, the 4th learned it and naruto to.

So it won't probably be a technique that others can't use.

The jutsu probably will depend on what naruto wants to do. kakashi developed his chidori wanting to cut anything or penetrate anything. So transformed his chakra in to lightning.

So will have have to wait an see what direction Naruto takes for hisnew jutsu!

Imagine kakashi saying the trick to learn the jutsu fast is....

To get in my Belly!!!

I want my baby..baby..baby back ribs!!!!!







uhh dude you said jiraya invented rasengan and taught it to yondaime its the other way arround dude

animefeen
July 07, 2006, 03:36 PM
Could we be all off base when we think that Naruto will learn a element with the rasegan...I mean all the villians we've seen(those that watch em) the fillers have used all the elements basically esp..those from the last four ep.prior to this past wk one...I think since Kasi..seen Naruto in Tail form and how the tail within itsself took on a fire element(think back to when naruto's clone was screaming so hot and the way kasi.look at him) will try to get naruto to join those two forces when I speak of forces I mean kyubi charka and the over powering naruto's charka(which kashi also knows that naruto charka is unique within itself and he has a vast amount) but I believe he will some how get him to merge the two to make both a defensive and offensive attack...So that it will be a long range attack and short range...

Just my two cents...what do yall think of what I just said..

BTW i left last nite did tha agony make it to 100?

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 03:41 PM
BTW i left last nite did tha agony make it to 100?


yea it made to 139

laughing@you
July 07, 2006, 03:44 PM
heh read couple of the first post ant it had altering the nature of rasengan heh well then i would say the jutsu is to friggin simple i want naruto to have his own idea of distructon some thing completely unrelated with chidori or rasengan ehh its jus me thoughts but still i wish for it [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 03:31:07 PM_________________________________________________
uhh dude you said jiraya invented rasengan and taught it to yondaime its the other way arround dude




Actually no dude!!! Jiraiya was the 4th sensei and it took 3 years for the 4th master it!



Could we be all off base when we think that Naruto will learn a element with the rasegan...I mean all the villians we've seen(those that watch em) the fillers have used all the elements basically esp..those from the last four ep.prior to this past wk one...I think since Kasi..seen Naruto in Tail form and how the tail within itsself took on a fire element(think back to when naruto's clone was screaming so hot and the way kasi.look at him) will try to get naruto to join those two forces when I speak of forces I mean kyubi charka and the over powering naruto's charka(which kashi also knows that naruto charka is unique within itself and he has a vast amount) but I believe he will some how get him to merge the two to make both a defensive and offensive attack...So that it will be a long range attack and short range...

Just my two cents...what do yall think of what I just said..

BTW i left last nite did tha agony make it to 100?


Probably he will create a gravity attack, something like kiuby-naruto used against orochimaru!!

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 03:46 PM
Actually no dude!!! Jiraiya was the 4th sensei and it took 3 years for the 4th master it!


where does say jiraya invented the techinque .....

laughing@you
July 07, 2006, 03:51 PM
where does say jiraya invented the techinque .....


In the same place that says that the 4th didn't invented it....in the manga!!!

Ok given!!...Its not clear who invented it, but because Jiraiya taught the rasengan to the 4th and its not mentioned that somebody teached it to Jiraiya, we can assume...

Rasengan was born with Jiraiya!

To the Moderator...sorry for spamming!

animefeen
July 07, 2006, 03:53 PM
heh read couple of the first post ant it had altering the nature of rasengan heh well then i would say the jutsu is to friggin simple i want naruto to have his own idea of distructon some thing completely unrelated with chidori or rasengan ehh its jus me thoughts but still i wish for it [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 03:31:07 PM_________________________________________________
uhh dude you said jiraya invented rasengan and taught it to yondaime its the other way arround dude




It was not the other way around jir..did invent and taught it to the yondaime after all yondaime was his student and jir. himself said naruto reminded him of the fourth when they first met

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 04:01 PM
In the same place that says that the 4th didn't invented it....in the manga!!!

Ok given!!...Its not clear who invented it, but because Jiraiya taught the rasengan to the 4th and its not mentioned that somebody teached it to Jiraiya, we can assume...

Rasengan was born with Jiraiya!

To the Moderator...sorry for spamming!


aye well but does it really say the pervert taught it to the 4th cuz it could also mean it took 4th 3 years to create it and complete the jutsu [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 03:55:59 PM_________________________________________________http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/chapter151.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3786

heres me answer now say if im wrong

Dragonzair
July 07, 2006, 04:13 PM
For me, some of the revelations in this chapter bring about some ideas from the previous few.

Before we thought when Kurenai entered the hospital room that Asuma was going to talk about their possible relationship. However with the knowledge of Asuma being a guard of the Lord of the Country of Fire it feels more likely to me that he was going to talk to Kakashi about it but stopped when Kurenai entered the room because she is maybe forbidden to know something about the followers? This could be because she is somehow related to this Lord of the Country of Fire or maybe IS the Lord of the Country of Fire.

However, if this is true it could be that Asuma is kinda like Kurenai's guardian which is why they always hang together and Asuma was talking to Kakashi because he is worried that Akatsuki might be coming after Kurenai but stopped when Kurenai entered because he didnt want to worry her?

It's your first post, yet it caught my heart. <3

Very nice predictions you got there. I'd never think of anything like that, yet the idea of it sems very nice.

My predictions:

More on Asuma, or maybe even Hidan and Kakuzu. Definitely no Naruto or Kakashi. Just to make the fans suffer for awhile.

laughing@you
July 07, 2006, 04:16 PM
aye well but does it really say the pervert taught it to the 4th cuz it could also mean it took 4th 3 years to create it and complete the jutsu [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 03:55:59 PM_________________________________________________http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/chapter151.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3786

heres me answer now say if im wrong


And after that quote I have to tell you are wrong!!!

Jiraiya was there!! Who do you think took Yondaime by the hand and taught it to him. After Naruto learned phase 2 Jiraiya was amazed cuz he said that Yondaime took a lot longer to get at that stage!

Can anybody else help me with this guy??

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 04:26 PM
And after that quote I have to tell you are wrong!!!

Jiraiya was there!! Who do you think took Yondaime by the hand and taught it to him. After Naruto learned phase 2 Jiraiya was amazed cuz he said that Yondaime took a lot longer to get at that stage!




heh off topic but dude it clearly says that the jutsu left behind by the fourth [br]Posted on: July 07, 2006, 04:21:29 PM_________________________________________________also rasengan is fourth's own technique that he created posibly without anyones help jus like kakashi with his chidori ano now naruto is trying to the same by creating his own unique jutsu

Piatch
July 07, 2006, 04:31 PM
I'm sorry people if I'm about to say something that has already been said, but I was too tired too read through all the posts.. *sorry* well I don't think that Naruto is going to use rasengan or chidori, I think that kakashi only use these two as a modle for Naruto, so Naruto have a thing to compare with.. So I'm still hoping for something new..:) hehe
But if Naruto is going to use Rasengan he will deffenetely have it together with fire.. I mean.. FIRE-country...;) hehe we nead some more proofs that Naruto is from the fire country...:P hehe

Just one thought... do you guys think that Jirayia has thought naruto how to blow fire from his mouth yet?? I mean like he did with Gamabunta.. Oil+fire=Awesome attack..;) hehe

I also want to see more of what Naruto has learnt... so far he has only become a litle faster and a litle smarter, but nor much... so... more of the things he has learnt..:)

thejackass98
July 07, 2006, 04:37 PM
I'm sorry people if I'm about to say something that has already been said, but I was too tired too read through all the posts.. *sorry* well I don't think that Naruto is going to use rasengan or chidori, I think that kakashi only use these two as a modle for Naruto, so Naruto have a thing to compare with.. So I'm still hoping for something new..:) hehe
But if Naruto is going to use Rasengan he will deffenetely have it together with fire.. I mean.. FIRE-country...;) hehe we nead some more proofs that Naruto is from the fire country...:P hehe

Just one thought... do you guys think that Jirayia has thought naruto how to blow fire from his mouth yet?? I mean like he did with Gamabunta.. Oil+fire=Awesome attack..;) hehe

I also want to see more of what Naruto has learnt... so far he has only become a litle faster and a litle smarter, but nor much... so... more of the things he has learnt..:)


heh well that would be awsome with gama bunta combination attack heh it all depends on naruto if he knows katon jutsu thing sasuke uses cant remember the name right now XD

Piatch
July 07, 2006, 04:48 PM
I really hope he does.. that would be AWESOME..:P

gold lion
July 07, 2006, 07:29 PM
Actually no dude!!! Jiraiya was the 4th sensei and it took 3 years for the 4th master it!

Probably he will create a gravity attack, something like kiuby-naruto used against orochimaru!!
no took 3 years to make and perfect it

gghochu
July 07, 2006, 08:34 PM
i dont think anyone mentioned it so... if Asuma is the 3rd's son, doesn't that mean Asuma is the father of Konohamaru?? so he was already in a relationship so where does Kurenai or whatever her name is fit in...

katar
July 07, 2006, 08:45 PM
i dont think anyone mentioned it so... if Asuma is the 3rd's son, doesn't that mean Asuma is the father of Konohamaru?? so he was already in a relationship so where does Kurenai or whatever her name is fit in...


You're right asuma is the father of konohamaru. Maybe his mother is dead or she left when konohamaru was young. The most stupid reason is kurenai is the mother lol.

zerocharisma
July 07, 2006, 08:53 PM
Since they were talking about the shape and nature of chakra I think his new jutsu might still have something to do with his name. Perhaps it will be some type of Vortex with Naruto as the eye of the storm. If he's to be able to change the nature of his chakra it most likely the element of wind would be used, but it is not impossible for him to create the vortex with a variety of elements like water and fire. With utilizing the elements I guess I can also see a jutsu that in some ways mimicks Neji's Kaiten.

So in short I'm expecting to see further play on the name Uzumaki. A vortex, eddy, whirlpool or spiral will likely be the outcome of the training.



I think you're absolutly right! well, of course I would think that, because I said the same thing last week so now it's a matter of ego...

z.

gold lion
July 07, 2006, 09:23 PM
giant battle aura of fire! like kaiten but constant, that burns the skin and weapons of enemies, and he can appear or make clones appear anywhere within this sphere of influence.

Eldanis
July 07, 2006, 10:22 PM
It's your first post, yet it caught my heart. <3

Very nice predictions you got there. I'd never think of anything like that, yet the idea of it sems very nice.



Awe <3 <3

I hadn't actually thought about the 4th's Hiraishin no Jutsu or a variation of the technique. I guess that it could be possible but instead of using weapons maybe using clones (i want him to use more clones dammit >_<). Kakashi could of copied it but i doubt it since its not followable by Sharingan/Byakugan.

However Kakashi says its going to unique to naruto since its something only he can do so it probably going to have something to do with Kyuubi :(

rocker2
July 07, 2006, 11:09 PM
For those that did not read my earlier post, elemental jutsus have a very low probability of being the ultimate jutsu for Naruto. If we trust the literal meaning of what Kakashi said, Naruto will be developing a jutsu which only he will be able to perform and nobody else. That also means that it cannot be copied. Kakashi will be helping Naruto develop his jutsu every step of the way meaning that the jutsu has to have portions which can only be performed by Naruto (thus jutsus like Hirashin which are secret rank are not it). Naruto does not have a known bloodline limit meaning he cannot utilize specific traits of a limit to prevent other ninjas like Kakashi from using his jutsu - this essentially removes all elemental jutsus since the only time elemental jutsus have been shown unusable by other ninjas has been when they were linked with a bloodline limit (ex. amateratsu, ice mirror jutsu, chidori). Though Naruto's chakra capacity is huge, it is possible that other some other ninjas have a similarly large chakra capacity (for example other jinchurriki). Thus a jutsu of which the uncopyable trait is chakra capacity will very unlikely be the ultimate one Naruto will be developing. However, Naruto's jutsu must be on the same level as bloodline limit rank if he is to surpass Kakashi. Thus the only choices are those that link the jutsu to some specific genetics of Naruto like the 1st's mokuton jutsu - a jutsu above both secret and bloodline limit rank. Finally, linking the jutsu with the Kyuubi is possible so long as it does not require the Kyuubi's power since we've already seen the result of utilizing the Kyuubi's power too much; and I doubt Kakashi will encourage such a jutsu to begin with if he wants to develop Naruto's powers and abilities (not the Kyuubi's).

Naruto's ultimate jutsu doesn't have to be reflective of Konoha at all - just him. Combining existing techniques like Kage buushin with the ultimate technique is a possibility, but the overall jutsu should be completely different (like rasengan where a kage buushin can be used, but is not the defining trait of the jutsu, nor required for its use). Predicting completely far out jutsus will likely to be closer to the true jutsu at this point than jutsus that resemble or incorporate current ones.

midnight789
July 08, 2006, 12:43 AM
wow, i love your posts rocker2. i know you get that alot, but its really true.
about naruto's ultimate ninjutsu, all we can do is guess, as we really don't have a clue. Coming from the number one most unpredictible ninja, it will probably very hard to guess. Anyways, that will come as it comes, what i'm interested in is how asuma and the 12 ninja protectors and the feudal lord will come in to play in this arc, if at all (which im pretty sure they will).
Oh, and btw i reread the part where naruto learns rasengan and it actually is the fourth's jutsu.

SacredNic
July 08, 2006, 12:45 AM
i dont think anyone mentioned it so... if Asuma is the 3rd's son, doesn't that mean Asuma is the father of Konohamaru?? so he was already in a relationship so where does Kurenai or whatever her name is fit in...


Not neccessarily. Asuma could be Konohamaru's uncle. :tem

TheGreenFlash
July 08, 2006, 01:06 AM
Okay i didnt read any other predictions but here is mine.

I think kishi is setting us up so that we dislike asuma. Because each time we where just about to here about the training all of a suden asuma pops up.

Now the reason kishi wants us to dislike asuma is to prepare us for that fact that he is going to betray konoha.

The monk that akatsuki captured is one of the 12 elite ninjas or w.e. and you know because his loincloth, Asuma has the same loincloth so this means he is also a member of the 12 elite ninjas and probbably is good friends with the monk. So akatsuki is going to use the monk to force asuma into letting them slip into konoha.

I think konoha is how you spell the name of where naruto lives...:)


Ehh they are turning the monk in for money and he is dead...i guess this prediction is off. But all i know is asuma is a member of the 12 elite ninja

My new prediction is that asuma heard about the death of the monk from that one monk who was hiding from akatsuki and that is what he was going to discuss with kakashi

Panda
July 08, 2006, 01:16 AM
Kakashi is teaching Naruto to change his chakra into the form of a SEAL. He needs to change the nature of his chakra so that he can imprint a seal on whatever he wants with his palm. Then the next step after that is how to use the seals.

Does this sound familiar?

This is also supposed to make Naruto formidable against the "unnaturally" fast Sasuke remember? And whatever element Naruto emits will come inadvertently after this jutsu is complete.

rocker2
July 08, 2006, 04:12 AM
wow, i love your posts rocker2. i know you get that alot, but its really true.
about naruto's ultimate ninjutsu, all we can do is guess, as we really don't have a clue. Coming from the number one most unpredictible ninja, it will probably very hard to guess. Anyways, that will come as it comes, what i'm interested in is how asuma and the 12 ninja protectors and the feudal lord will come in to play in this arc, if at all (which im pretty sure they will).
Oh, and btw i reread the part where naruto learns rasengan and it actually is the fourth's jutsu.


Thanks :). Glad that you like them. As for the 12 ninja protectors, the main importance at the moment is the fact that Asuma isn't your average Jounin. Like Kakashi, the extent of his jutsus and capability possibly exceed the average Jounin and he is a decendant of one of the few Sannin-level ninja of Konoha. Also, being part of the Sarutobi clan gives him high status in Konoha and likely makes him one of the perfect ninja for Tsunade to use to keep an eye on Roots if she hasn't already been using him for this task. Who better to defend the ways of the father than the son.



You're right asuma is the father of konohamaru. Maybe his mother is dead or she left when konohamaru was young. The most stupid reason is kurenai is the mother lol.

Kurenai was not romantically linked with Asuma when they were first introduced. If they had children together and were romantically attached at one time, it'd be hard to hide that fact and Kakashi would likely know. I'm more for the opinion that Asuma is the uncle rather than the father of Konohamaru. I also saw a post stating that Kurenai could be the feudal lord's daughter. This is unlikely as I would doubt that the feudal lord would allow his daughter (a likely heir) to continuously put her life in peril. All the other feudal lords shown so far have been very overprotective of their children.

tusker
July 08, 2006, 04:37 AM
A few things:
I'm really hoping that we learn a bit more about the 12 Bodyguards, especially since Asuma is/was one of them. Asuma will definitly have a strong supporting role in this arc. Its interesting that we are finally getting a little background on shinobi outside of the world of hidden villages, not to mention Kishimoto's sudden insertion of religion into the up-til-now seemingly godless narutoverse.

Kakashi will probably use MS somehow for Naruto's training...I kinda wish this wasn't the case..but at least maybe it'll give us some sort of explaination as to why/how he got it.

Naruto's technique will be something new, not a variation on rasengen.. remember in 312 Kakashi said a unique new jutsu. As many others have stated he was just using rasengan and chidori as examples to explain to Naruto how chakra works. Whatever Naruto learns will probably have a major impact on the way he fights...just like how kage bunshin and then rasengan did the same...its not going to be something he only does when in a really bad situation like gamabunta.

Hmm..naruto could really use a long range attack (that doesn't involve throwing kage bunshins).

If Kakashi does indeed use MS it will definitly wear him out...perhaps putting Kakashi back in the hospital, and putting Team 7 back under Yamato, or maybe even have them under Asuma in a joint mission with Ino/Shika/Chou.

The cat bijuu girl is (sorta) safe for a little while...Akatsuki isn't going to do the extraction while Hidan and Kakuza are still on the road...so there's still plenty of time for her to be rescued even though Zetsu took her away.



For those that did not read my earlier post, elemental jutsus have a very low probability of being the ultimate jutsu for Naruto. If we trust the literal meaning of what Kakashi said, Naruto will be developing a jutsu which only he will be able to perform and nobody else. That also means that it cannot be copied. Kakashi will be helping Naruto develop his jutsu every step of the way meaning that the jutsu has to have portions which can only be performed by Naruto (thus jutsus like Hirashin which are secret rank are not it). Naruto does not have a known bloodline limit meaning he cannot utilize specific traits of a limit to prevent other ninjas like Kakashi from using his jutsu - this essentially removes all elemental jutsus since the only time elemental jutsus have been shown unusable by other ninjas has been when they were linked with a bloodline limit (ex. amateratsu, ice mirror jutsu, chidori). Though Naruto's chakra capacity is huge, it is possible that other some other ninjas have a similarly large chakra capacity (for example other jinchurriki). Thus a jutsu of which the uncopyable trait is chakra capacity will very unlikely be the ultimate one Naruto will be developing. However, Naruto's jutsu must be on the same level as bloodline limit rank if he is to surpass Kakashi. Thus the only choices are those that link the jutsu to some specific genetics of Naruto like the 1st's mokuton jutsu - a jutsu above both secret and bloodline limit rank. Finally, linking the jutsu with the Kyuubi is possible so long as it does not require the Kyuubi's power since we've already seen the result of utilizing the Kyuubi's power too much; and I doubt Kakashi will encourage such a jutsu to begin with if he wants to develop Naruto's powers and abilities (not the Kyuubi's).

Naruto's ultimate jutsu doesn't have to be reflective of Konoha at all - just him. Combining existing techniques like Kage buushin with the ultimate technique is a possibility, but the overall jutsu should be completely different (like rasengan where a kage buushin can be used, but is not the defining trait of the jutsu, nor required for its use). Predicting completely far out jutsus will likely to be closer to the true jutsu at this point than jutsus that resemble or incorporate current ones.


I agree mostly except at the inclusion of chidori on your list of bloodline limit needing jutsu that can't be copied...remember, Kakashi invented it before he had the sharingan, therefore anybody who as a good enough ninja could learn it if Kakashi taught them. The move just wasn't safe to use without sharingan. Also as far as elemental jutsus go Zabuza used plenty of water jutsus and he didn't have any bloodline. This being said, I agree that Naruto's new technique probly won't be element based...its just not his style.

Tha_bounce
July 08, 2006, 05:58 AM
The cat bijuu girl is (sorta) safe for a little while...Akatsuki isn't going to do the extraction while Hidan and Kakuza are still on the road...so there's still plenty of time for her to be rescued even though Zetsu took her away.

Am I the only one of the impression that a Bijuu can be extracted without the members of Akatsuki being present? Or at least being present but being else where at the same time i.e Kage Bunshin

When Garaa's bijuu was being extracted Zetsu was out scouting the area for possible intruders after which Itachi and Kisame left to go engage Team Gai and Team Kakashi in battle to buy time. All the while the extraction was going on...right?

If that is correct then it is likley that 'Nibi' might not be safe and her bijuu be already extracted the next time we hear of her. Though like most I'd like her to be saved.

siegfried
July 08, 2006, 07:12 AM
giant battle aura of fire! like kaiten but constant, that burns the skin and weapons of enemies, and he can appear or make clones appear anywhere within this sphere of influence.


man you are talking about ilidan's skill from warcraft 3. (I couldnt remember its name maybe enflame or sth like that) 20 damage per second :o it is not ninjaish and why will that fire not burn naruto?

I gave up guessing the jutsu.I dont want it to be sth elemental that is all.damn kishimoto.

LightReaper
July 08, 2006, 08:42 AM
man you are talking about ilidan's skill from warcraft 3. (I couldnt remember its name maybe enflame or sth like that) 20 damage per second :o it is not ninjaish and why will that fire not burn naruto?

I gave up guessing the jutsu.I dont want it to be sth elemental that is all.damn kishimoto.


Immolation.

Remus
July 08, 2006, 09:17 AM
Well you all defy elements but you forget that there are more elements than water,fire,wind,earth in Naruto. There is also pure chakra (Rasengan),Life (Gate Release, Resurrect Jutsu of Chiyo) and last but not least Time/Space(Hiraishin). So Naruto who has a very unique Chakra which can withstand with the Kyuubis and even begins to merge with the Kyuubis and begins to become more devilish is something which will grant him a superior advantage. So what I would like Naruto to learn is a jutsu concerning Time and Space manipulation. Considering the fact that someone who can control time and space could be lifted to god status its also unbelievable hard to learn/copy or even understand the jutsu and how it works. And now consider Naruto and Sasuke fighting and Naruto stops the flow of time around him and he just needs to hit sasuke while he is immobile. Its a superior ability not to think about the possibilities which could show up with Naruto developing even higher levels of his jutsu.

Otomo kage
July 08, 2006, 11:55 AM
^^
Lol remus, i guarantee you that will never happen, your getting a little off. Read the chapter carefully, especially what kakashi said/


well this is all i can assume by the last 3 manga. But it may change by next chapter.....

ok.

From here i can predict that naruto is going to upgrade his rasengan by altering its nature.

When kakashi said naruto can do it out of the rest of the group. This narrows it down to either use kryuubi, or has to do with rasengan. Ofcourse only naruto, Jiraiya, and Yondaime is able to perform the great rasengan.

So meaning Kakashi is going to teach naruto to alter the nature of his rasengan, since naruto already knows how to change the shape of his chakra (rasengan).

___________________________________

Sure if he upgrades his rasengan, thats great. But i'll be dissapointed, because i'm tired of seeing naruto using the same moves all over... Kage bunshin, rasengan... blah!

I would like to see him use more new techniques... however lets look out of the box! Maybe the method that kakashi is going to tell naruto will also be naruto's new way of training? hmm i think kishi is going to reveal it to us soon.

rocker2
July 08, 2006, 12:53 PM
I agree mostly except at the inclusion of chidori on your list of bloodline limit needing jutsu that can't be copied...remember, Kakashi invented it before he had the sharingan, therefore anybody who as a good enough ninja could learn it if Kakashi taught them. The move just wasn't safe to use without sharingan. Also as far as elemental jutsus go Zabuza used plenty of water jutsus and he didn't have any bloodline. This being said, I agree that Naruto's new technique probly won't be element based...its just not his style.

The point is the only elemental jutsus (shown in the manga so far) that cannot be copied must be linked to a bloodline limit. Since this has been an ongoing trend that hasn't changed yet, we can assume this point. The chidori can be copied in its nature, but not fully utilized without the sharingan. Though it isn't a fully bloodline limit jutsu like amateratsu, I found it close enough to include (however, this does reiterate the point that elemental jutsus are very difficult to make uncopyable). This is why no other ninja used chidori until Kakashi taught Sasuke, who also has the sharingan. The fact that Zabuza used so many water elemental jutsus just backs up the point that elemental jutsus can be used by most ninjas. However, neither he nor Kakashi could use the ice mirror jutsu as it is a bloodline limit elemental jutsu.



Well you all defy elements but you forget that there are more elements than water,fire,wind,earth in Naruto. There is also pure chakra (Rasengan),Life (Gate Release, Resurrect Jutsu of Chiyo) and last but not least Time/Space(Hiraishin). So Naruto who has a very unique Chakra which can withstand with the Kyuubis and even begins to merge with the Kyuubis and begins to become more devilish is something which will grant him a superior advantage. So what I would like Naruto to learn is a jutsu concerning Time and Space manipulation. Considering the fact that someone who can control time and space could be lifted to god status its also unbelievable hard to learn/copy or even understand the jutsu and how it works. And now consider Naruto and Sasuke fighting and Naruto stops the flow of time around him and he just needs to hit sasuke while he is immobile. Its a superior ability not to think about the possibilities which could show up with Naruto developing even higher levels of his jutsu.

The five elements defined by the manga itself were water, fire, wind, lightning (electricity) and earth. Jutsus based on these elements are elemental jutsu. Rasengan is a pure chakra jutsu, but the nature of the spinning of the chakra in rasengan (and also kaiten) automatically translates its effect into a wind elemental in atmosphere, water elemental in the presence of water and fire elemental in the presence of fire. However, the fact is the jutsu user is not actively transforming the chakra into an element. Special pure chakra jutsus like rasengan are very powerful, but only require the "ability to change the shape" of the chakra. Thus, there is no elemental usage. Life/healing art jutsus are also not elemental jutsus. What these jutsu users do, which non-medical ninjas don't do, is transform the chakra back to normal stamina/life energy and concentrate it to heal injuries. However there is no elemental use here, otherwise that would mean that all ninjas use the elemental jutsu "life" when they mold chakra. Finally, the manipulation of space-time is beyond elemental. Space-time is the manipulation of 3-D space along with time or a manipulation of the very fabric of the universe. It is also the reason the jutsus based on space-time manipulation are not easily copyable/learned if copyable/can be learned at all and very powerful. Thus summoning (which often is binded by contracts), Hirashin and Kakashi's doujutsu all use space-time manipulation.

Otomo kage
July 08, 2006, 01:01 PM
The thing is that the sharingan cant copy a complex chakra movement such as the chodori, and rasengan despite having its elemental powers.

centerxv
July 08, 2006, 01:07 PM
ok just registered n read a few of the predictions n i just wanted to add something...
mb someone said it already n i missed it but since i didnt see it im gonna say it anyways...
so it's clear that asuma is one of the 12 elite monks cuz he says he doesnt regret leaving n stuff...
but wat i noticed was that the akatsukis went to the temple to capture a jinchuuriki and at the end they say that the jinchuuriki is not there.
so i think that asuma is a jinchuuriki.. i kno it's a bit crazy but it makes sense.
he's one of the elite 12 ninjas n from akatsuki's info their next jinchuuriki is one of the elite 12 from the fire temple.
so there's my prediction. asuma=jinchuuriki
booya =D

gold lion
July 08, 2006, 04:40 PM
ok just registered n read a few of the predictions n i just wanted to add something...
mb someone said it already n i missed it but since i didnt see it im gonna say it anyways...
so it's clear that asuma is one of the 12 elite monks cuz he says he doesnt regret leaving n stuff...
but wat i noticed was that the akatsukis went to the temple to capture a jinchuuriki and at the end they say that the jinchuuriki is not there.
so i think that asuma is a jinchuuriki.. i kno it's a bit crazy but it makes sense.
he's one of the elite 12 ninjas n from akatsuki's info their next jinchuuriki is one of the elite 12 from the fire temple.
so there's my prediction. asuma=jinchuuriki
booya =D
thats a far strech, but y'know if ya don't strech, ya tighten up and die! can you elaborate? :smile-big

lee-nus
July 08, 2006, 04:46 PM
wow, that's truly a brave theory...! ^^

White Rabbit
July 08, 2006, 06:27 PM
yeah, the "asuma being a jinchuuriki"-theory has already been brought up in the 314-Discussion-Thread. But I don't think it's very likely and I hope it won't happen this way.

I think the whole scene with asuma at sandaimes grave had some kind of farewell-ambience. maybe he is part of tsunades plans against akatsuki or he has to take on his duty as one of the twelve protection-nins of the feudal lord.

Well, kakashis talk ich ch314 puts the bodyflicker-speculations a little in the background, I guess.

And it's a pity to see the nibi leaving the story after just two chapters. I hope kishi will get back to her later.

mageofdeath
July 08, 2006, 06:44 PM
nibi is gone, bai-bai nibi-chan, as for the training something tells me we wont get to see any of it, that way kishi can show us later in flasbacks...

gold lion
July 08, 2006, 08:26 PM
nibi is gone, bai-bai nibi-chan, as for the training something tells me we wont get to see any of it, that way kishi can show us later in flasbacks...
i can't believe you said ..it!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaarg. your not supposed to say that.
that's it we're screwed, we won't know what the training was till next year :crying

rocker2
July 08, 2006, 09:25 PM
The thing is that the sharingan cant copy a complex chakra movement such as the chodori, and rasengan despite having its elemental powers.

Chidori is copyable via the sharingan. Rasengan is a little tougher due to the speed and method the chakra is molded and shaped, but is still copyable if the ninja is of a high enough caliber. Both jutsus are A or the "super A" (as I've seen some of the translations state for jutsus slightly more powerful than regular A rank) rank, not secret rank, meaning they are copyable.

The fully developed sharingan has much trouble copying extremely high speed jutsus, but can still do so with time (Sasuke only had a partially matured sharingan, but could still copy Rock Lee's high speed taijutsu). The only jutsus it cannot copy are bloodline-limit related, secret rank (usually utilizing some form of summoning) and special genetically-linked jutsus (like the 1st's mokuton - not a bloodline as only the 1st had the ability to use it). Elemental jutsus so far have only fit into the bloodline-limit and secret rank categories. The problem is Naruto doesn't have a bloodline-limit and the fact that Kakashi is helping Naruto develop his jutsu every step of the way means that Kakashi will know the "secret" jutsu if Naruto were to develop one of the secret rank. Thus it is straightforward that the only choice left is a genetically-linked jutsu meaning that it will be very hard for us to predict what jutsu Naruto will develop as it will be very irregular to start with and not fit the regular elemental mold that we've seen of most jutsus.

gold lion
July 08, 2006, 10:57 PM
Chidori is copyable via the sharingan. Rasengan is a little tougher due to the speed and method the chakra is molded and shaped, but is still copyable if the ninja is of a high enough caliber. Both jutsus are A or the "super A" (as I've seen some of the translations state for jutsus slightly more powerful than regular A rank) rank, not secret rank, meaning they are copyable.

The fully developed sharingan has much trouble copying extremely high speed jutsus, but can still do so with time (Sasuke only had a partially matured sharingan, but could still copy Rock Lee's high speed taijutsu). The only jutsus it cannot copy are bloodline-limit related, secret rank (usually utilizing some form of summoning) and special genetically-linked jutsus (like the 1st's mokuton - not a bloodline as only the 1st had the ability to use it). Elemental jutsus so far have only fit into the bloodline-limit and secret rank categories. The problem is Naruto doesn't have a bloodline-limit and the fact that Kakashi is helping Naruto develop his jutsu every step of the way means that Kakashi will know the "secret" jutsu if Naruto were to develop one of the secret rank. Thus it is straightforward that the only choice left is a genetically-linked jutsu meaning that it will be very hard for us to predict what jutsu Naruto will develop as it will be very irregular to start with and not fit the regular elemental mold that we've seen of most jutsus.
i disagree, the sharingan cannot copy rasengan.
1) it's a jutsu the 4th made so it wouldn't be copyable.
2) it has to be taught, and it's concepts understood.
3) all anyone who tries to describe it says is; a whirling mass of chakra, where as we who where there through kishi's eyes know for a fact what it is.
4) for this *pure speculation*- they all gasped that naruto can do it because it was made by the genius 4th hokage( meaning they never figured it out.

btw love your posts

Toad Sage
July 09, 2006, 01:29 AM
So everyone else thinks that Asuma is the leader of Akatsuki now, right? It can't just be a coincidence that the only ninja insightful enough to unravel his schemes suddenly disappears (Shikamaru) and Asuma then sends away Kakashi's students so he can be alone with their sensei while he's weak, can it?

Kishimoto is trying to tell us now that Asuma is powerful, related to a figure in Konohoa's history who could have potentially taught him some very powerful jutsu (including mokuton, possibly, even though it's so far been described as a unique ability of Shodaime's), and that he has spikey hair-so far the main reason the rest of world has pinned the identity of the leader upon Yondaime.

Since this is a predictions thread, I bet in the next chapter we're going to see the messanger from the fire temple arrive to deliver news of Akatsuki's arrival and at the same time, see Asuma looking all pissed off and forbidding in the shadows, so to speak. Perhaps it's a ruse, but right now, I feel like the manga is leading us to believe that Asuma is going to be a villian.

Anyway, it was clear from the get go that the Leader should be a leaf ninja, because it is after all a story about that village. Also, the crack in Sandaime's carving in the mountain side is featured prominently when Asuma remarks upon what a great dad he was. Iruka mentions this a bad omen at the third's funeral, and now it's being brought up in the comics again. hmmm....

tusker
July 09, 2006, 01:43 AM
Am I the only one of the impression that a Bijuu can be extracted without the members of Akatsuki being present? Or at least being present but being else where at the same time i.e Kage Bunshin

When Garaa's bijuu was being extracted Zetsu was out scouting the area for possible intruders after which Itachi and Kisame left to go engage Team Gai and Team Kakashi in battle to buy time. All the while the extraction was going on...right?

If that is correct then it is likley that 'Nibi' might not be safe and her bijuu be already extracted the next time we hear of her. Though like most I'd like her to be saved.

Yes, in theory they probably could extract the bijuu from her if they wanted to, but Hidan and Kakuza seem to be in a hurry to find the next jinchuruuki, and if I recall correctly the extraction is a fairly slow process, so it would either delay their hunt, or stretch the two of them thin in terms of chakra if they continue their mission while the extraction is taking place.

Besides what was the point of introducing the Nibi girl if she was just gonna die without a chance for Naruto to change her.



1) it's a jutsu the 4th made so it wouldn't be copyable.

Why not??

rocker2
July 09, 2006, 01:54 AM
i disagree, the sharingan cannot copy rasengan.
1) it's a jutsu the 4th made so it wouldn't be copyable.
2) it has to be taught, and it's concepts understood.
3) all anyone who tries to describe it says is; a whirling mass of chakra, where as we who where there through kishi's eyes know for a fact what it is.
4) for this *pure speculation*- they all gasped that naruto can do it because it was made by the genius 4th hokage( meaning they never figured it out.

btw love your posts

Thanks Shishi-O. Love yours too. Though some of your points about rasengan are very accurate, the main point remains that the jutsu is still only A or "super A" rank, depending on which translation you wish to believe. This was clearly stated by Jiraiya back when he taught Naruto the jutsu. Only secret, bloodline limit and individual genetically-linked rank jutsus are completely uncopyable. Now, this does not mean rasengan can be used by any ninja or that it is easy to copy. Rasengan requires control in many ways exceeding chidori and lots of chakra to begin with. The chakra is molded at extremely high speeds making it very difficult for any ninja to tell how it is done. Additionally, rasengan can be considered in the category of ultimate jutsus thus the ninja attacked by this jutsu will unlikely have the chance to ever copy it since they would be either dead or in no condition to fight ever again.



Yes, in theory they probably could extract the bijuu from her if they wanted to, but Hidan and Kakuza seem to be in a hurry to find the next jinchuruuki, and if I recall correctly the extraction is a fairly slow process, so it would either delay their hunt, or stretch the two of them thin in terms of chakra if they continue their mission while the extraction is taking place.

The Akatsuki can lend their power to the jutsu remotely as shown during the Gaara arc. However, during the jutsu, they must remain stationary. Zetsu was just stationary in a position that he could monitor incoming threats. This was the reason that Itachi and Kisame needed body doubles to deal with the Kakashi's and Gai's teams. If the Akatsuki were mobile, they would have went after Naruto the minute he was spotted. There were 9 Akatsuki and only 8 Konoha ninjas, most of which would be easy pickings for the Akatsuki members. Thus nibi is safe for the present. They can prep her, but no extraction can be done until the two still hunting return.

_ATMA
July 09, 2006, 01:57 AM
Am I the only one of the impression that a Bijuu can be extracted without the members of Akatsuki being present? Or at least being present but being else where at the same time i.e Kage Bunshin

When Garaa's bijuu was being extracted Zetsu was out scouting the area for possible intruders after which Itachi and Kisame left to go engage Team Gai and Team Kakashi in battle to buy time. All the while the extraction was going on...right?

If that is correct then it is likley that 'Nibi' might not be safe and her bijuu be already extracted the next time we hear of her. Though like most I'd like her to be saved.



if i remember correctly they used something like an astro projection ....

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 02:08 AM
hmmmm, apparently I forgot to post here. Well, I don't think there's much to predict. I'm all fizzled out when it comes to predicting what the training shortcut will be. sooooooo, how about...ah yes. I predict we will finally see what the shortcut is. I also predict we will learn more about the elite guard. (wow I'm a real gambler predicting these absurd things :p).

As a final note, I think that it is more difficult for the sharingan to copy jutsu where only the shape of the chakra is altered. I mean I don't think we've ever seen Naruto alter the nature of his chakra, and have we ever seen a sharingan user copy his techniques. Did Sasuke or Kakashi copy the rasengan? Did Sasuke copy the Kage bunshin? That's all for now.

Ryuto87
July 09, 2006, 02:39 AM
It would be funny if Naruto learned to fly(oh wait) and use a full body Resengan.

cerventus
July 09, 2006, 02:44 AM
Yeah i predict the Akasuki dual goes to a temple. hahaha


okay i think Itachi might just appear to take over from the two other member.[br]Posted on: July 09, 2006, 02:43:47 AM_________________________________________________

It would be funny if Naruto learned to fly(oh wait) and use a full body Resengan.


that is just like Ninku(another anime/manga)

Cbot
July 09, 2006, 02:55 AM
I predict that Ataksuki come across Orochimaru and tangle.

thejackass98
July 09, 2006, 03:16 AM
ok i believe that asuma is prollly goin to be killed and is goin to be a part of the main climax in this arc

laughing@you
July 09, 2006, 06:22 AM
So everyone else thinks that Asuma is the leader of Akatsuki now, right? It can't just be a coincidence that the only ninja insightful enough to unravel his schemes suddenly disappears (Shikamaru) and Asuma then sends away Kakashi's students so he can be alone with their sensei while he's weak, can it?

Kishimoto is trying to tell us now that Asuma is powerful, related to a figure in Konohoa's history who could have potentially taught him some very powerful jutsu (including mokuton, possibly, even though it's so far been described as a unique ability of Shodaime's), and that he has spikey hair-so far the main reason the rest of world has pinned the identity of the leader upon Yondaime.

Since this is a predictions thread, I bet in the next chapter we're going to see the messanger from the fire temple arrive to deliver news of Akatsuki's arrival and at the same time, see Asuma looking all pissed off and forbidding in the shadows, so to speak. Perhaps it's a ruse, but right now, I feel like the manga is leading us to believe that Asuma is going to be a villian.

Anyway, it was clear from the get go that the Leader should be a leaf ninja, because it is after all a story about that village. Also, the crack in Sandaime's carving in the mountain side is featured prominently when Asuma remarks upon what a great dad he was. Iruka mentions this a bad omen at the third's funeral, and now it's being brought up in the comics again. hmmm....


If Azuma was the leader wouldn't he be more at a striking distance to grap naruto a.k.a the most wanted bijuu?

And Azuma becoming a bad guy....still don't see it!!! I see it more as a resolution to continue with the sarutobi name or family!

I predict that Azuma wanted to asume more responsibility on the village as the hokage's son, but when informed about the attack at the temple, he leaves to encounter the responsibles ones. I think he will encounter the boy messanger and instructs him not to say anything that he will deal with it. After that Azuma will show his true power and whoops Hidan and Kakuzo's behind!!!!!

Ok given is too much story for one chapter but is still wishfull thinking!!!!LOL

ruby_06
July 09, 2006, 06:38 AM
I think akatuski wont come untill naruto learn this technique or in the middle of it and naruto would be hard to catch since he has many people around him and they are strong such as gai,tsuande, neji and rock lee and the rest of them

LightReaper
July 09, 2006, 06:44 AM
i disagree, the sharingan cannot copy rasengan.
1) it's a jutsu the 4th made so it wouldn't be copyable.
2) it has to be taught, and it's concepts understood.
3) all anyone who tries to describe it says is; a whirling mass of chakra, where as we who where there through kishi's eyes know for a fact what it is.
4) for this *pure speculation*- they all gasped that naruto can do it because it was made by the genius 4th hokage( meaning they never figured it out.

btw love your posts


1. Hahahaha, nice try but 4th doesn't install any anti-sharingan security devices into his jutsus.
2. Yes.
3. But that's just what it is, if Naruto was to understand the jutsu, Jiraiya had to tell him, and he did. Your contradicting yourself. If Naruto only vaguely knew what the rasengan was how the hell could he learn it.
4. Not quite, they all gasped because it was such a difficult jutsu to learn. So many did not. And there's no point in trying to copy it without having sharingan.

I agree that Rasengan is uncopyable, but for different reasons. It's not a special jutsu in any way other than that it does not require handseals. It's a muscle memory action, so it can't be copied.

Piatch
July 09, 2006, 10:27 AM
so... when will "THAT"-jutsu come up??

gold lion
July 09, 2006, 12:56 PM
1. Hahahaha, nice try but 4th doesn't install any anti-sharingan security devices into his jutsus.
2. Yes.
3. But that's just what it is, if Naruto was to understand the jutsu, Jiraiya had to tell him, and he did. Your contradicting yourself. If Naruto only vaguely knew what the rasengan was how the hell could he learn it.
4. Not quite, they all gasped because it was such a difficult jutsu to learn. So many did not. And there's no point in trying to copy it without having sharingan.

I agree that Rasengan is uncopyable, but for different reasons. It's not a special jutsu in any way other than that it does not require handseals. It's a muscle memory action, so it can't be copied.
the fourth's jutsu are all anti sharingan. obviously he didn't trust them.
it's naruto, so it was explained slowly, by the teacher of the fourth a legendary sanin.
and i believe you just contradicted yourself. if he didn't understand it he couldn't use it.
and if it was that easy then everyone would be using it.

you forget, naruto makes every jutsu he knows into muscle memmory.

at the end of next chapter, kakashi will say so thats' what i'm gonna do..in two more chapters* headf hits desk*

LightReaper
July 09, 2006, 02:01 PM
the fourth's jutsu are all anti sharingan. obviously he didn't trust them.
it's naruto, so it was explained slowly, by the teacher of the fourth a legendary sanin.
and i believe you just contradicted yourself. if he didn't understand it he couldn't use it.
and if it was that easy then everyone would be using it.

you forget, naruto makes every jutsu he knows into muscle memmory.

at the end of next chapter, kakashi will say so thats' what i'm gonna do..in two more chapters* headf hits desk*


There isn't a way to 'sharigan' proof any jutsu, you show me proof and i'll believe you.

Yes, but what use is him being taught by Jiraiya if Jiraiya didn't know exactly what the rasengan was composed of. And I wasn't contradicting myself, it's a godamn fact. You can't use a jutsu if you don't know what the hell it's composed of. Naruto, Jiraiya, Yondaime, they all know what it's composed of, so it IS just a whirling mass of chakra, there's no secret hidden level to the jutsu.

You seem to misunderstood what I mean, take a jutsu like the katon jutsus. They require hand seals and the right amount of chakra, sharingan can copy this so the jutsu can be copied. The rasengan has no hand seals and the amount of chakra is unimportant, it's what motion you make with the chakra. Sharingan cannot copy this. This is why the Rasengan can't be copied by sharingan.

DarkManSharingan32
July 09, 2006, 02:12 PM
the fourth's jutsu are all anti sharingan. obviously he didn't trust them.
it's naruto, so it was explained slowly, by the teacher of the fourth a legendary sanin.
and i believe you just contradicted yourself. if he didn't understand it he couldn't use it.
and if it was that easy then everyone would be using it.

you forget, naruto makes every jutsu he knows into muscle memmory.

at the end of next chapter, kakashi will say so thats' what i'm gonna do..in two more chapters* headf hits desk*


He didn't trust them? Wow, thats a pretty bold statement, concidering there is absolutely no truth the back it up. An considering he respected Obito, an Uchiha, i would say that little statement is pretty much shot to pieces.

The reason Yondaimes jutsu's are not "instantly copyable" by the sharingan is because they require precise chakra control (whose secrets are only gained through studying the jutsu, or being taught it), or pacts with the same Summon. A person with the Sharingan, who had the same level of skill as Yondaime would have no problem copying the spiral of chakra needed to perform the Rasengan, the main problem is... ninjas of that calibur come only a few times a generation, and honestly.. they would have to WANT to learn it. I think thats the main problem. As it stands only Kakashi and Orochimaru have shown the want to learn a multitude of jutus... the Uchiha are specialized, and really have no use for a Rasengan-type attack...

And your point about Naruto... he makes it that way because it is the most basic way of learning... practice. He practices much more than most, because he needs to. This means that his "chakra muscle memory" is just slower than others, and he must practice more to compensate.
----

And anyways, i just had a thought...
By upgrading his Rasengan to an elemental-wind type attack it would keep all of it's precise control needed, and boost it's attack range and damage... *shrugs*.
It would be a perfect adaptation of the concepts that Kakashi jutsu spoke about, and it would look AMAZING...lol

Jus_a_drifter
July 09, 2006, 03:05 PM
I got a simple question.

The reason why sharigan can copy moves , isn't because they can copy hand seals or body movement , so why then would they be able to copy the rasengan or chidori ?

These two jutsus don't rely on hand seals but chakara control. one more thing; sasuke didn't copy the chidori, he had to learn it , and kakashi chose him cause he would be able to see a counter attack.
If he could just have copied it why then didn't kakashi just show him it let him copy it like the same day and move on ?


I think I get what the dude is saying when he says ol man 4th's techs are sharigan proof, I mean think about it;he is called the greatest of all time, then if he had moves that were copable then wouldn't uchicha just copy it and make themselves better ?
Look at his techs, they don't seem to require hand seals , but chakara control, time space bending prolly thru chakara control , summoning , prolly because he signed contracts wid the animals/gods and so on. So in a sense yeah, they were sharigan proof.

Darrenj
July 09, 2006, 03:13 PM
I disagree with you DarkManSharingan32
I dont think Itachi could easly copy the resengan, its clearly been stated that its a tech that needs to be learnt over time, way you make it sound is silly
does that mean he can also shoot wood from his body like yamato? or would auto be able to allow bugs to live inside himself?

ur giving the bloodline too much credit

DarkManSharingan32
July 09, 2006, 03:51 PM
I disagree with you DarkManSharingan32
I dont think Itachi could easly copy the resengan, its clearly been stated that its a tech that needs to be learnt over time, way you make it sound is silly
does that mean he can also shoot wood from his body like yamato? or would auto be able to allow bugs to live inside himself?

ur giving the bloodline too much credit


What?

The Rasengan is NOT a bloodline trait, meaning that it is NOT passed through the same family line, and it does not have characteristics that make it so. Yamato has the same GENES as Shodaime, which is how he is able to do it, and only the Aburame clan can allow bugs to live within their bodies. In short, you have really brought out some weak examples.

It has been stated many times already that the Sharingan cannot copy bloodline techniques, and I am not saying that Itachi could do that. Especially in your case of Aburame, it IS imposible to copy that, because it is more like a Blood Pact, without the summoning needed.. which as I stated before is not copyable. But to further my point, it would be possible for a Sharingan user to copy moves like Kagemane, and Shinranshin...

Anyways, my point is this... The reason it took Yondaime so long to CREATE the jutsu, was because he CREATED IT. From nothing... he designed the control needed for the jutsu, and developed the parameters. Honestly the very first person to create Bunshin no jutsu had to go through the same thing, and it probably took him about the same time... since knowledge of chakra was limited back then. Naruto took a long time because he isn't exactly a whiz when it comes to chakra control, and it will always take him extra practice, unless of course he devises a short-cut to the long training method.

As it pertains to Itachi, as i said, would not be able to "instantly copy" the jutsu. But because of the Sharingan he would gain all the information on how to preform it by merely watching it formed a few times. And a truly exceptional Uchiha, might be able to replicate the swirling chakra in a few attempts.

Finally, I'm not giving the Sharingan too much credit, i'm giving it just enough...
The main thing is, until we see a Sharingan-user attempt to copy these techniques we can guess until doomsday. I just believe a genius Uchiha on the level of Yondaime (who may or MAY NOT be Itachi), might be able to copy the Rasengan, a purely chakra-control jutsu.[br]Posted on: July 09, 2006, 11:48:27 AM_________________________________________________

I got a simple question.

The reason why sharigan can copy moves , isn't because they can copy hand seals or body movement , so why then would they be able to copy the rasengan or chidori ?

These two jutsus don't rely on hand seals but chakara control. one more thing; sasuke didn't copy the chidori, he had to learn it , and kakashi chose him cause he would be able to see a counter attack.
If he could just have copied it why then didn't kakashi just show him it let him copy it like the same day and move on ?


I think I get what the dude is saying when he says ol man 4th's techs are sharigan proof, I mean think about it;he is called the greatest of all time, then if he had moves that were copable then wouldn't uchicha just copy it and make themselves better ?
Look at his techs, they don't seem to require hand seals , but chakara control, time space bending prolly thru chakara control , summoning , prolly because he signed contracts wid the animals/gods and so on. So in a sense yeah, they were sharigan proof.


Remember that the Sharingan's primary use to to see through all Nin/Gen/Tai attacks... and that it's secondary use is to copy. The Rasengan is not instantly copyable, it is NO WHERE near Sharingan proof... As long as chakra is being used, the Sharingan can see it. As for the body being able to do anything about it... thats a whole different story.

rocker2
July 09, 2006, 04:25 PM
I got a simple question.

The reason why sharigan can copy moves , isn't because they can copy hand seals or body movement , so why then would they be able to copy the rasengan or chidori ?

These two jutsus don't rely on hand seals but chakara control. one more thing; sasuke didn't copy the chidori, he had to learn it , and kakashi chose him cause he would be able to see a counter attack.
If he could just have copied it why then didn't kakashi just show him it let him copy it like the same day and move on ?


I think I get what the dude is saying when he says ol man 4th's techs are sharigan proof, I mean think about it;he is called the greatest of all time, then if he had moves that were copable then wouldn't uchicha just copy it and make themselves better ?
Look at his techs, they don't seem to require hand seals , but chakara control, time space bending prolly thru chakara control , summoning , prolly because he signed contracts wid the animals/gods and so on. So in a sense yeah, they were sharigan proof.

This topic is getting close to the off-topic category, so I'm going to clarify this once and leave it at that. What the sharingan does is copy how chakra is molded - it is the mutated and in some ways, evolved version of the Byakugan which is used for precision chakra vision. In some cases, chakra is molded with hand seals and in others, chakra is directly focused to direct moves like in taijutsu. However, chakra is molded in both cases so both are copyable.

There are several limitations to the copy ability to the sharingan. Just like regular eyes, what the eye can't follow, the sharingan can't copy. Thus high-speed chakra usage in a jutsu like the high speed taijutsu of Rock Lee and the high-speed chakra molding required of rasengan are very difficult for the sharingan to copy. However, this doesn't mean that either of these jutsu are uncopyable. It means that the sharingan-bearing ninja trying to copy the jutsu must be of caliber high enough to follow the jutsu. While Sasuke was of high enough caliber to follow Rock Lee (and therefore could copy his taijutsu eventually), he was not of high enough caliber to follow rasengan. His sharingan could not follow the chakra molding required for the jutsu resulting in him not being able to copy it. While it is still unknown whether Kakashi knows how to perform rasengan, keep in mind that the chakra molding speed required for the jutsu was set by the 4th when he created it. Naruto was able to reach this speed while maintaining control over the jutsu by using the kage buushin initially. Whether Kakashi has the speed required or was able to think of using kage buushin to compensate in the same manner Naruto did is still unknown.

The second limitation to the copy ability is if there is some other requirement other than just chakra molding for the jutsu to work. These requirements include bloodline limits, summoning contracts/written seals, special genetic traits specific to the jutsu user and special additional beings (like bugs, bijuu, etc.). However, as stated by another poster long ago, this limitation can be overcome should the sharingan user somehow acquire the special genes, sign the contract, discover the seals or acquire the bugs, bijuu or whatever beings required.

DarkManSharingan32
July 09, 2006, 04:46 PM
This topic is getting close to the off-topic category, so I'm going to clarify this once and leave it at that. What the sharingan does is copy how chakra is molded - it is the mutated and in some ways, evolved version of the Byakugan which is used for precision chakra vision. In some cases, chakra is molded with hand seals and in others, chakra is directly focused to direct moves like in taijutsu. However, chakra is molded in both cases so both are copyable.

There are several limitations to the copy ability to the sharingan. Just like regular eyes, what the eye can't follow, the sharingan can't copy. Thus high-speed chakra usage in a jutsu like the high speed taijutsu of Rock Lee and the high-speed chakra molding required of rasengan are very difficult for the sharingan to copy. However, this doesn't mean that either of these jutsu are uncopyable. It means that the sharingan-bearing ninja trying to copy the jutsu must be of caliber high enough to follow the jutsu. While Sasuke was of high enough caliber to follow Rock Lee (and therefore could copy his taijutsu eventually), he was not of high enough caliber to follow rasengan. His sharingan could not follow the chakra molding required for the jutsu resulting in him not being able to copy it. While it is still unknown whether Kakashi knows how to perform rasengan, keep in mind that the chakra molding speed required for the jutsu was set by the 4th when he created it. Naruto was able to reach this speed while maintaining control over the jutsu by using the kage buushin initially. Whether Kakashi has the speed required or was able to think of using kage buushin to compensate in the same manner Naruto did is still unknown.

The second limitation to the copy ability is if there is some other requirement other than just chakra molding for the jutsu to work. These requirements include bloodline limits, summoning contracts/written seals, special genetic traits specific to the jutsu user and special additional beings (like bugs, bijuu, etc.). However, as stated by another poster long ago, this limitation can be overcome should the sharingan user somehow acquire the special genes, sign the contract, discover the seals or acquire the bugs, bijuu or whatever beings required.


I think our posts have pretty much put the finishing touches on those points... Nice post!
As for further predictions:

Asuma seems to be getting showcased right now, and if you remember back to the last time Akatsuki invaded, Asuma seemed pretty useless. I think he might have been holding something back in the face of Kurenai, and now that he has made peace with hs father, we are going to see something special from him. Maybe he will be able to dispatch one of the new Akatsuki members...

Now, as for Zetsu getting away with Nibii... that is farrrrr too easy. If kishi wanted that to happen, he could have never showed her at all, and had the newly shown members release the information of the newly captured Jinchuuriki to Konoha after they arrived.

Now, i think Zetsu is going to be ambushed by a group, and the Niibii will be re-captured by Konoha, after a short scuffle with Zetsu, who will be out-numbered.

gold lion
July 09, 2006, 05:08 PM
There isn't a way to 'sharigan' proof any jutsu, you show me proof and i'll believe you.

Yes, but what use is him being taught by Jiraiya if Jiraiya didn't know exactly what the rasengan was composed of. And I wasn't contradicting myself, it's a godamn fact. You can't use a jutsu if you don't know what the hell it's composed of. Naruto, Jiraiya, Yondaime, they all know what it's composed of, so it IS just a whirling mass of chakra, there's no secret hidden level to the jutsu.

You seem to misunderstood what I mean, take a jutsu like the katon jutsus. They require hand seals and the right amount of chakra, sharingan can copy this so the jutsu can be copied. The rasengan has no hand seals and the amount of chakra is unimportant, it's what motion you make with the chakra. Sharingan cannot copy this. This is why the Rasengan can't be copied by sharingan.
you can't see him with hiraishin or body flicker, and rasengan just looks like a ball of chakra, check vote, it can't be copied because it justlooks like a mass of chakra. now if jiraiya or naruto were to explain the concept and teach it to a sharingan holder then yeah, i can say it was copied. otherwise no, in sasuke's sharingan view it looked like a mass of chakra, but if it makes you feel better, itachi smirked when naruto hit him with the oodama rasengan, hinting at copying it :)

sorry i was rereading your post and didn't realize till now that you where agreeing with me :tem

prediction- that group will be led by shikamaru :oh

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 05:18 PM
Come on guys, we're getting a bit off-topic here. If you truly feel passionate about your ideas of what sharingan can and can't copy you can make a thread about it in the Toshokan. For now back to predictions.

I predict that when Kakashi tells Naruto just what it is he has in mind for accelerated training, the whole Narutoverse is gonna do a backflip. :p. Seriously though, I predict (or at least I hope) that what it is he has in mind is something unpredictable. Play around with that paradox for a while. :smile-big

gold lion
July 09, 2006, 05:20 PM
ok as his training goes, tsukyomi everyday for a week. where kakashi will hunt him down, and kill him :smile-big

ZeroDegrez
July 09, 2006, 07:07 PM
Whatever the change is, I think the nature of the chakra will turn to what else, but fire.

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 07:08 PM
Whatever the change is, I think the nature of the chakra will turn to what else, but fire.

hmmmm, are you sure. I always saw Naruto doing more Water and Earth type jutsu. Then again, the kyuubi is a fire elemental bijuu is it not?

body flicker
July 09, 2006, 07:18 PM
no the kyubis chakra is just red

midnight789
July 09, 2006, 08:13 PM
I don't know if anyone has said this already, but i'm too lazy to read all the posts. I predict that kakashi and naruto aren't going to save the nibi, they are going to train. Asuma and his team are going to save the nibi or fight Hidan and Kakuzu, probably the latter. The monk is going to tell the fifth hokage that the one powerful monk was defeated by akatsuki, and asuma is going to find out about it also (probably straight from tsunade) and he is going to go fight them. Thats more than one chapter though.

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 08:18 PM
no the kyubis chakra is just red

hmmmm, Actually not only is it's chakra red but it turns out it's symbolic element is fire as I said. To read up on that you can visit the research thread of the Toshokan and click on the bijuu link. Dyroness made a very thorough explanation for us to enjoy. :amuse

kunai-knight
July 09, 2006, 09:36 PM
heres my 2 cents

The sharingan has the ability to copy a jutsu and can cause the sharingan bearer to remember and use any jutsu it has copied. However this is not a hard and fast truth; there are rules and limitations that limits the sharingan's ability to work. I believe (this is just a belief so correct me if i'm wrong) that the sharingan can only copy jutsu's that require handseals. But copying a jutsu is different than being able to use it which is where the other limitation comes in. The sharingan cannot cause its bearer to be able to use the jutsu if they dont have the required chakra to perform the move or
the blood contract etc.

Now if the move isnt copyable in the first place by the sharingan, then it obviously cant be used. Not without learning the move in a way that a non-sharingan bearer would have to learn it. And obvious if the hand seal formation is to fast to be followed or cant be seen, then the jutsu cant be copied either. I believe this was the purpose of Zabuzza using mist during his battle with kakashi. (among other reasons of course)


Therefore it is my belief that the sharingan cannot copy the rasengan technique or the chidori. For the simple reason that there are no hand seals involved. If someone can show me an example of when the sharingan copied a jutsu that did not require seals then i will retract this post/view and concede defeat :)

For those who believe otherwise, you would be implying that kakashi/itachi could copy sasuke's chidori drainage, which i also see as unlikely and even Yoroi's Chakura Kyuin Jutsu (the chakra sucking thingie). The only thing i am unsure of is whether or not they'd be able to copy and use sealing techniques.


Anyway as for predictions, Kakashi will finally reveal his short term training method, in which i believe a new power of the sharingan will be revealed that would allow naruto to learn the jutsu quickly (which some people might feel would suck) or he could possible even use the sharingan's power of 'telepathy' to really hint/guide/control naruto's movements during the training. But i dont believe its Tsukoyomi (sp?) simply because Kishi know's we're expecting it. So suprise us KISHI :D

P.S sorry for the long post!!

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 09:51 PM
heres my 2 cents

The sharingan has the ability to copy a jutsu and can cause the sharingan bearer to remember and use any jutsu it has copied. However this is not a hard and fast truth; there are rules and limitations that limits the sharingan's ability to work. I believe (this is just a belief so correct me if i'm wrong) that the sharingan can only copy jutsu's that require handseals.

Many people share this belief. There is as of yet no evidence for or against it.




Therefore it is my belief that the sharingan cannot copy the rasengan technique or the chidori. For the simple reason that there are no hand seals involved. If someone can show me an example of when the sharingan copied a jutsu that did not require seals then i will retract this post/view and concede defeat :)
As I said there probably isn't a clear-cut example. But how do you explain the ability to copy Taijutsu then? What about genjutsu with no seals?


For those who believe otherwise, you would be implying that kakashi/itachi could copy sasuke's chidori drainage, which i also see as unlikely and even Yoroi's Chakura Kyuin Jutsu (the chakra sucking thingie). The only thing i am unsure of is whether or not they'd be able to copy and use sealing techniques. What's Chidori drainage? Anyway just like the other examples there's no way to prove otherwise. All and all, I'd say you put in some valid opinions, but in the end, like most things dealing with the power of the sharingan, they are simply opinions.



Anyway as for predictions, Kakashi will finally reveal his short term training method, in which i believe a new power of the sharingan will be revealed that would allow naruto to learn the jutsu quickly (which some people might feel would suck) or he could possible even use the sharingan's power of 'telepathy' to really hint/guide/control naruto's movements during the training. But i dont believe its Tsukoyomi (sp?) simply because Kishi know's we're expecting it. So suprise us KISHI :D

P.S sorry for the long post!!

I too want Kishi to surprise us. I want something so out-of-nowhere that everyone in the Narutoverse does a backflip and breaks their jaw when the training method is revealed. But that's cause I like surprises. :smile-big

bladefencer
July 09, 2006, 10:49 PM
Even if sharingan can't copy jutsus with out seals, Chidori has three hand seals: Ox, Hare, Monkey

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4080/ox7dc.th.png (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ox7dc.png)http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/710/hare8jp.th.png (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hare8jp.png)http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/79/monkey9qm.th.png (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monkey9qm.png)

rocker2
July 09, 2006, 11:02 PM
For those who believe otherwise, you would be implying that kakashi/itachi could copy sasuke's chidori drainage, which i also see as unlikely and even Yoroi's Chakura Kyuin Jutsu (the chakra sucking thingie). The only thing i am unsure of is whether or not they'd be able to copy and use sealing techniques.

Sasuke learns jutsus using his sharingan and does not create new jutsu of his own. At best, he modifies existing jutsus he's learned. He is not original, which is one of the main things that makes him different from Naruto. Sasuke depends on his bloodline limit to make his techniques uncopyable to all ninjas except Kakashi and Itachi. Sealing techniques cannot be directly copied by the sharingan since they require a written portion and/or contract (which requires that the ninja have knowledge of the contract requirements). Therefore, Naruto's ultimate jutsu could make use of sealing like the ultimate jutsu of the 4th (death god jutsu).

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 11:03 PM
Even if sharingan can't copy jutsus with out seals, Chidori has three hand seals: Ox, Hare, Monkey

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4080/ox7dc.th.png (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ox7dc.png)http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/710/hare8jp.th.png (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hare8jp.png)http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/79/monkey9qm.th.png (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monkey9qm.png)

How right you are. I forgot to post that. :D

midnight789
July 09, 2006, 11:21 PM
I thought the sharingan could copy any jutsu it can see, the only limitations being that of the sharingan user. For example, sasuke copied the part of Rock Lee's lotus ability he was able to see, but he couldn't execute it as fast as rock lee because his body simply couldnt move that fast. As for the rasengan, if he can control his chakra in exactly the right way he could copy it, but thats a really big if. In order to control chakra exactly like that, he would need to train as naruto did. Simply put, Sasuke cannot copy the rasengan because he can't control his chakra that same way, but if he trained a bit he probably could (a bit meaning however long it takes) because he knows how it was executed(he just can't do it with out training.......yet :o). It's kind of hard to explain, but i've tried, hope it helps.

and in an attempt to keep this thread on topic, i think the next chapter will be kakashi and naruto further divulging parts of their training, probably ending with hidan and kakuzu up to new shananigans :p

glasskatana
July 09, 2006, 11:28 PM
hmmm, do you think Hidan and Kakuzu will run into Itachi and Kisame? For some reason I keep having dreams where an Akatsuki member, (can't tell who it is) dies.

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 12:10 AM
hidan, he's died twice already. but i wanna say kakuzu, y'just know it's gonna happen.

prediction, in 2 chapters training will comence.

glasskatana
July 10, 2006, 12:40 AM
hidan, he's died twice already. but i wanna say kakuzu, y'just know it's gonna happen.

prediction, in 2 chapters training will comence.

2 chapters!!! and here I was hoping we'd learn what the training was this thrusday. :scry Shishi-O, you make me sad.

kazuya-kun
July 10, 2006, 12:44 AM
The training could be having Naruto mimic the Red chakra like proprieties. Think about it, the chakra itself is element altering, because it's physical and change forms. And about the Time-Chamber-DBZ-Sharingan-Style, i thought wow. That actually make alot of sense, because Kakashi told naruto that he would need to understand the jutsu himself. And with the Sharingan, naruto would be able to completely perfect/invent the jutsu

ZeroDegrez
July 10, 2006, 12:52 AM
Then again, the kyuubi is a fire elemental bijuu is it not?
If you remember in the vally of the end battle. Naruto's body, before being covered in the protective chakra of the Kyubi was engulfed in fire by Sasuke's Jutsu; which left Naruto totally unharmed, while it melted the rocks around him.

This leads me to believe the Kyubi is at home in the fire, as is Naruto. So since he is as it appears, totally immune to fire, what some might call a self destructive fire jutsu, to Naruto might be a perfect match. If he could cover his body in fire like Sasuke now does with electricity, that might be an interesting matchup.

Of course I would prefer Kishi not photo copy Sasuke's technique and make it fire'ie.

However, I'm 95% sure whatever the jutsu is, the nature will be fire. For Naruto I couldn't think of any better of a matchup. Earth, wind, electricity, and water just don't strike me as something that matches the nature of the Kyubi.

However... for that last 5%.

If it could be anything else, it would be water. For 4 reasons.

1. Naruto's name. Has to deal with whirl-pools.
2. It is the exact opposite of the Kyubi fire nature.
3. Matches his own chakra color of blue.
4. Would be the matchup against electricity. (sasuke)

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 12:52 AM
The training could be having Naruto mimic the Red chakra like proprieties. Think about it, the chakra itself is element altering, because it's physical and change forms. And about the Time-Chamber-DBZ-Sharingan-Style, i thought wow. That actually make alot of sense, because Kakashi told naruto that he would need to understand the jutsu himself. And with the Sharingan, naruto would be able to completely perfect/invent the jutsu
on point kazuya-kun, y'got moxy.

it will be a focus on the remaining sarutobi. in two weeks it'll segway back to kakashi and naruto, and training will be over.

@zero degrees it could be wind( i am just playing devils advocate)
1) kyuubi causes tsunami by shaking it's tail
2) hiraishin=thundergod, like father like son??
3) rasengan although is said to be chakra jutsu, already affects its surroundings like wind.
4) i don't know, wouldn't he be faster if he could control the wind, and get the nickname hiraishin?

glasskatana
July 10, 2006, 12:58 AM
If you remember in the vally of the end battle. Naruto's body, before being covered in the protective chakra of the Kyubi was engulfed in fire by Sasuke's Jutsu; which left Naruto totally unharmed, while it melted the rocks around him.

This leads me to believe the Kyubi is at home in the fire, as is Naruto. So since he is as it appears, totally immune to fire, what some might call a self destructive fire jutsu, to Naruto might be a perfect match. If he could cover his body in fire like Sasuke now does with electricity, that might be an interesting matchup.

Of course I would prefer Kishi not photo copy Sasuke's technique and make it fire'ie.

However, I'm 95% sure whatever the jutsu is, the nature will be fire. For Naruto I couldn't think of any better of a matchup. Earth, wind, electricity, and water just don't strike me as something that matches the nature of the Kyubi.

However... for that last 5%.

If it could be anything else, it would be water. For 4 reasons.

1. Naruto's name. Has to deal with whirl-pools.
2. It is the exact opposite of the Kyubi fire nature.
3. Matches his own chakra color of blue.
4. Would be the matchup against electricity. (sasuke)

what the, was that an anime scene? (I only trust/read the manga and I don't remember a scene where the rocks melted and Naruto was unharmed, I do remember when the chakra shroud protected him though.) oh and in the manga his chakra is yellow. So that would actually go more with fire.

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 01:01 AM
what the, was that an anime scene? (I only trust/read the manga and I don't remember a scene where the rocks melted and Naruto was unharmed, I do remember when the chakra shroud protected him though.) oh and in the manga his chakra is yellow. So that would actually go more with fire.
are you sure yellow isn't wind? i think you meant to say wind :amuse joking lol

glasskatana
July 10, 2006, 01:05 AM
are you sure yellow isn't wind? i think you meant to say wind :amuse joking lol

Lol, it's rather difficult to predict the color that corresponds to the elements. Electricity is usually seen as blue, purple, yellow, or white. Fire is almost exclusively yellow or red. Water is...blue. Wind is just about any color. I can imagine someone having green, blue, clear, white, grey, just about any color chakra and controlling the wind. Earth is usally... um ...I don't know. But you see what I mean?

Anyway, I really hope that this new jutsu isn't just the rasengan with an elemental twist. Don't get me wrong that's still kind of cool, but I don't find it creative or new enough. I want the new jutsu to be something amazing. Dazzle me Kishimoto, bring it on, I can take it. :p

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 01:08 AM
Lol, it's rather difficult to predict the color that corresponds to the elements. Electricity is usually seen as blue, purple, yellow, or white. Fire is almost exclusively yellow or red. Water is...blue. Wind is just about any color. I can imagine someone having green, blue, clear, white, grey, just about any color chakra and controlling the wind. Earth is usally... um ...I don't know. But you see what I mean?

Anyway, I really hope that this new jutsu isn't just the rasengan with an elemental twist. Don't get me wrong that's still kind of cool, but I don't find it creative or new enough. I want the new jutsu to be something amazing. Dazzle me Kishimoto, bring it on, I can take it. :p
he'll go ; rasengan..firestorm, and an acre of realestate is wiped out like kyuubi's chakra canon.lol

glasskatana
July 10, 2006, 01:09 AM
he'll go ; rasengan..firestorm, and an acre of realestate is wiped out like kyuubi's chakra canon.lol

ha ha. I can see it now. Naruto's new jutsu is called
Rasengan detonation. He makes a bunch of mini-fire based rasengan's float around him and explode on command.

Blazin_Cha0s
July 10, 2006, 01:12 AM
Not neccessarily. Asuma could be Konohamaru's uncle. :tem


Exactly. That's what I was thinking.

DarkManSharingan32
July 10, 2006, 01:15 AM
Exactly. That's what I was thinking.



I guess it all depends...
How many times do you think Sandaime had sex...

lol


That's a weird ass question, no?

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 01:18 AM
since he is stepping away from the rage release of the kyuubi, i would say his demeanor will be more like yondaime.
he might be an idiot in lame social settings where he is bored but in combat, naruto is a genius.
think about who he has faught against, and who he has lost to. there are jounins who can't boast that.

like kakashi says, he's the type that learns through his body.
i predict once he gets a feel for this thing, he'll be scary

glasskatana
July 10, 2006, 01:18 AM
I guess it all depends...
How many times do you think Sandaime had sex...

lol


That's a weird ass question, no?

yeah... you could have just asked how many kids he had. :blink
Anyway what if Konohomaru was adopted?

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 01:20 AM
yeah... you could have just asked how many kids he had. :blink
Anyway what if Konohomaru was adopted?
adopted people arent treated that well. there's huge inner pride there.

yeah that was a wierd question. :oh

Blazin_Cha0s
July 10, 2006, 01:20 AM
I guess it all depends...
How many times do you think Sandaime had sex...

lol


That's a weird ass question, no?


:oh Yes, yes it is.

DarkManSharingan32
July 10, 2006, 01:32 AM
yeah... you could have just asked how many kids he had. :blink
Anyway what if Konohomaru was adopted?


Of course I could have, but then then I lose the whole point of asking the question in the first place...lol

But, Konohamaru, adopted?
If that were so, it would make it make more sense that he was adopted by Sandaime himself, but then... Sandaime never really trained him at all. So, I would say that it's unlikely really...

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 01:33 AM
yup, he's honorable grandson, not that adopted kid

rocker2
July 10, 2006, 02:27 AM
1st of all, Naruto is not immune to fire jutsus. He just has such a large chakra supply that he surges around him to deflect attacks. Other ninja do this too to reduce the strength of an enemy's strike, but since their chakra supply isn't as great, the effect is much reduced. When Naruto goes KB, that chakra surge is huge and can deflect the majority of attacks against him. In KB4, the chakra surge which takes the shape of the Kyuubi in this case is so powerful that it becomes impenetrable. Keep in mind that chidori nagashi had as much impact on Naruto as any of Sasuke's fire attacks. But that doesn't mean that Naruto is immune to electrial jutsus either. Also, Naruto's speed is just as fast as Sasuke's. In a lot of scenes where it seemed like he got hit by some fire elemental or other jutsu, he actually dodged it.

As for wind/tornado jutsus that form some sort of protective barrier around the jutsu user - it is called Kaiten, requires the Byakugan and precision chakra release from all the chakra points on a ninja's body. There is also a water wall jutsu that forms a water barrier around the jutsu user. This was used by the reincarnated 2nd Hokage. Although I have not seen it yet, I'm pretty sure there already exists a fire barrier jutsu as well since every other elemental jutsu has shown a barrier jutsu. Elemental jutsus are copyable unless protected in some way by a bloodline limit. Now Naruto could somehow link one to him via the Kyuubi or some genetic trait of his, but it is more likely that the elemental jutsu would only be a subjutsu of some main, initially non-elemental jutsu - like the 1st's mokuton. Elemental jutsus have already been way overused and are too predictable. Kishi has not yet made an ultimate jutsu for the good guys yet that utilizes elements (4th - death god jutsu, hirashin; Kakashi - space-time doujutsu; Jiraiya - his frog and frog-related summoning jutsu; Tsunade - her super-healing seal-based jutsu; 1st - mokuton jutsu). Think wild and irregular jutsus. Think way out of the box.

Gold Knight
July 10, 2006, 07:17 AM
For me, some of the revelations in this chapter bring about some ideas from the previous few.

Before we thought when Kurenai entered the hospital room that Asuma was going to talk about their possible relationship. However with the knowledge of Asuma being a guard of the Lord of the Country of Fire it feels more likely to me that he was going to talk to Kakashi about it but stopped when Kurenai entered the room because she is maybe forbidden to know something about the followers? This could be because she is somehow related to this Lord of the Country of Fire or maybe IS the Lord of the Country of Fire.

However, if this is true it could be that Asuma is kinda like Kurenai's guardian which is why they always hang together and Asuma was talking to Kakashi because he is worried that Akatsuki might be coming after Kurenai but stopped when Kurenai entered because he didnt want to worry her?

Its late and im just throwing ideas out there >_<

That could be it... very very nice thought there Eldanis. Kurenai certainly looks like she would be a princess. And what if the Daimyou himself was also a shinobi? That would help explain why Konohagakure doesn't have very many internal troubles.

laughing@you
July 10, 2006, 07:50 AM
Anyway, I really hope that this new jutsu isn't just the rasengan with an elemental twist. Don't get me wrong that's still kind of cool, but I don't find it creative or new enough. I want the new jutsu to be something amazing. Dazzle me Kishimoto, bring it on, I can take it. :p


I agree, a rasengan variation would be a lack of creativity. But somehow in a sense it would be the faster way! I mean Kakashi knows time is an issue and he already explained the two steps needed on creating a new jutsu on which naruto already has step one. Unless they decide to start from scratch! I kinda hope so!!

Please start from scratch!!!!

VeNoM87
July 10, 2006, 09:03 AM
I agree, a rasengan variation would be a lack of creativity. But somehow in a sense it would be the faster way! I mean Kakashi knows time is an issue and he already explained the two steps needed on creating a new jutsu on which naruto already has step one. Unless they decide to start from scratch! I kinda hope so!!

Please start from scratch!!!!




I doubt that is going to happen m8 :). Only by creating one single new jutsu it ain't possible for him to become faster/more skilled in any way then Kakashi.... and kakashi said he might surpass him after this training. So if you look at it clearly there ain't no way that that jutsu will be the only thing that makes him stronger then kakashi. (We still have to see The Jutsu that Jiraiya taught him also :D)

As for next chapter I honoustly have no freaking idea... possibly just Akatsuki being at a next temple, kakashi finally saying how he's going to train Naruto in such a short period and stuff like that

erieru
July 10, 2006, 12:23 PM
I'm getting very curious about the new training technique, I hope it will be something completely new and not just the use of MS by Kakashi, otherwise I think it will be too much of an expectative for something obvious.
About the technique, I like the idea of it being completely different, and hopefully, Naruto's nature and character will change dramatically after this training, I want the difference to be big, so that Jiraiya would be surprise when he sees naruto again,and goes, "what that *#&$) happened to you?"
Keep in mind the way Sasuke changed (even his clothing and all) after training with Kakashi sensei for Chidori, and became a bad ass all of a sudden, so my logic is that this training will be even worst and more demanding thus the change should be a lot more dramatic as well :)

kunai-knight
July 10, 2006, 01:27 PM
Even if sharingan can't copy jutsus with out seals, Chidori has three hand seals: Ox, Hare, Monkey

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4080/ox7dc.th.png (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ox7dc.png)http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/710/hare8jp.th.png (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hare8jp.png)http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/79/monkey9qm.th.png (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monkey9qm.png)


lol. right i forgot about that. I was thinking about the times when i've seen sasuke and kakashi use chidori without using the seals. Which really makes you wonder if the formation of the seals are even required for any jutsu to be performed. I'm thinkin its something like Harry Potter where the spells dont necessarily have to be said out loud, they can be 'thought of' and performed once the user has mastered doing it this way. It seems kinda silly though that chidori would be copyable sometimes and at other times it wouldnt be.

@rocker2
concerning the sealing/fuiin jutsus i was thinking the same thing, but there are some sealing techniques that dont require a contract or writing such as the 'five pronged seal" (sp? - the jutsu oro uses on sasuke in death forest) so i was wondering if theyd be copyable by the sharingan.

Also, the sharingan doesnt have a problem copying handwriting, as seen from itachi faking his friend's suicide note, so i dont see the writing seal jutsus as uncopyable by the sharingan in any case(based on your reasons as to why they are uncopyable )

laughing@you
July 10, 2006, 01:34 PM
This is the reason why the anime catches up with manga in no time. The manga stretches one thing too much! I mean its purpose is working cuz it has us by the edge of our seats wanting more, but then anime covers everything in a couple of episodes.

And I love the manga but I like to see it animated...

I fear the next issue won't even start naruto's training. It would probably go down like:

Azuma: Well dad have to go. Have to pay for that meal and speak to Kakashi.

Recognizes monk passing by.

Azuma: Hey whats wrong? What are you doing here?

Monk: barely alive: The temple has being attacked our sensei has being killed by akatsuki..

and explains what they used.

Azuma: Ma..Ma-za-ka!! Sensei defeated?

Azuma goes to Tsunade for a report and Tsunade orders a High alert and sents a special team.

Kakashi tells naruto what he has to do!

and

Next chapter: bla..bla..bla!!

thejackass98
July 10, 2006, 04:43 PM
ok i kinda think naruto would be able to surpass kkS cuz while learning the steps to create new jutsus and while creating one he can use the steps to improve other jutsus or even have sub jutsus that were created while creating the main ultimate jutsu. which can also allow naruto have more knowledge about jutsus than he knew before snice that is the part he needs to gain most to surpass KKS

body flicker
July 10, 2006, 05:18 PM
i read your post and i like what you said about the training improving other jutsu because maybe what he is going to learn from kakashi could help him finish the jutsu jiyiria told him not to use

you know maybe something like the 4th and kakashi on the chidori

Eldanis
July 10, 2006, 05:20 PM
So this question is a little off topic for the chapter but was just reading back through and saw this.

Firstly, i apologise for the quality but the left part but u have no idea how hard it is to find a close up of Kurenai's eyes and this is the best i could find >_<

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3301/eyes6bn.jpg

On the left is Kurenai's eyes from chapter 141, page 3. when they're versing Itachi.

On the right is the eyes of the Akatsuki leader.

It may be my eyes playing tricks but do they look pretty similar to anyone else? I looked at itachis eyes in the images with the leader and Itachi's eyes even at a distance always have the pieces of the Sharigan and everyone else i can think of doesnt have the ring in their eyes apart from Kurenai.


But on a seperate note could Kurenai possibly be the Jinchuuriki that Akatsuki are looking for in fire country? As Kishi loves to throw us twists I dont think that Hidan and Kazuku would be searching for Naruto, firstly as they pretty much know where he is and second because if i remember hes reserved for Itachi (1 per akatsuki to my recollection). Secondly, they knew that a guard of the Lord of the Fire Country would be at the temple so possibly the twelve guards have some connection to the Jinchuuriki (god that never gets easier to spell :blink). And because Asuma is always hanging out with Kurenai (In my earlier post i talked about asuma possibly being Kurenai's guard). We assumed Lord of Fire country was a feudal lord because of the title of lord but maybe Lord of Fire Country = Jinchuuriki?

Meh its 6am. no sleep yet, just throwing ideas out there. Bloody university assignments ftl

jester065
July 10, 2006, 05:21 PM
@thejackass98
nice name lol.. but anyway i gotta agree with you and thats how i think he is going to pass up kakashi

I think the his new ult jutsu going to be from scratch (hoping) and thats also how going to surpass him from the work he has to do to get his new jutsu. I see maybe some speed,control, and of course nature and shape training... which will help all his other jutsus in the process.

thejackass98
July 10, 2006, 07:16 PM
heh thanks jester

and aslo with learning the ninjutsu it possibly could improve things in like his taijutsu and genjutsu cuz kakashi is an overall balanced in all the three and naruto's strong points are taijutsu and ninjutsu [br]Posted on: July 10, 2006, 07:12:02 PM_________________________________________________

i read your post and i like what you said about the training improving other jutsu because maybe what he is going to learn from kakashi could help him finish the jutsu jiyiria told him not to use

you know maybe something like the 4th and kakashi on the chidori

it could help him with "that jutsu" which is probably complete cept naruto couldnt controll it and has some after effects and thats porlly jiraya forbid it

erieru
July 10, 2006, 10:24 PM
hey, I just had a bizarre idea, reading a while a go in one of the previos pages someone mentioned that Naruto doesn't have a bloodlimit jutsu, but.. what if he does? what if he is going to develop the jutsu that kakashi knows only Naruto can do because he is the son of the 4th?? It would go something like this,
Kakashi: By the way, there is this one thing only your dad (the Fourth) and you can possibly do, I just don't know how. Soooo you kinda have to figure it out
Naruto:wtf are you talking about??

gold lion
July 10, 2006, 10:25 PM
hey, I just had a bizarre idea, reading a while a go in one of the previos pages someone mentioned that Naruto doesn't have a bloodlimit jutsu, but.. what if he does? what if he is going to develop the jutsu that kakashi knows only Naruto can do because he is the son of the 4th?? It would go something like this,
Kakashi: By the way, there is this one thing only your dad (the Fourth) and you can possibly do, I just don't know how. Soooo you kinda have to figure it out
Naruto:wtf are you talking about??
big eyes...wha? *blink*blink*

Shorinjiru
July 11, 2006, 12:18 AM
hey, I just had a bizarre idea, reading a while a go in one of the previos pages someone mentioned that Naruto doesn't have a bloodlimit jutsu, but.. what if he does? what if he is going to develop the jutsu that kakashi knows only Naruto can do because he is the son of the 4th?? It would go something like this,
Kakashi: By the way, there is this one thing only your dad (the Fourth) and you can possibly do, I just don't know how. Soooo you kinda have to figure it out
Naruto:wtf are you talking about??


Perhaps the Ultimate Jutsu will be a masterful combination of all that Naruto Knows: Example: Bloodline limit of the 4th's space bending technique, where the markers are Kage Bunshin, and each Bunshin is running around screaming while carrying a rasengan and in partial kyuubi mode?

That is way extreme, I know, but it would still be "original" because nobody could have done it before... and it would be greater than Kakashi because Naruto would have enough chakra to actually maintain an Army...[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 12:03:25 AM_________________________________________________Another Idea: Maybe the training will involve Naruto being blindfolded (so he learns to sense things better and avoid getting stuck in Itachi/Sasuke's gaze) while Kakashi attacks him with his own bunshin clones, AND his nin-dogs. That'd force Naruto to deal with multiple opponents and make him develop quite a bit...;

Ohyeah, the next chapter will be all talk. No action. Everyone will hear about the temple destruction, Kakashi will begin to explain his plan but get interrupted. Kurenai will announce her pregnancy. Asuma will ask Kakashi to be his best man, and will be sad that his father (Sarutobi) won't be around to see this happy day. Asuma will turn out to be Konohamaru's uncle, and Tsunade will be like "what the heck? you can't get married! we're going to war" Then Asuma dies trying to protect Kurenai and his unborn child.

There all secrets revealed. TaDa!

Blazin_Cha0s
July 11, 2006, 12:47 AM
Am I the only person that doesn't want Naruto to have a bloodline limit? (I know I'm not) Naruto is Naruto. If he had bloodline limit that would kill all his character development so far. He's an over emotional, hyperactive, unpredictable, loud mouth, show-off, with a heart of gold, a goal to achieve, and the heart to do it. If he had Bloodline limit and the kyubii (sp?) that would be overkill. I think Kishimoto laid off the kyubii (sp?) just so Naruto could shine and I look forward to it. :smile-big

As for my prediction: I think we'll soon see the son of the third in action and it'll be shock to others but probably not Kakashi when they see his true abilities. I really hope he doesn't die. I really, really hope he doesn't that would suck. As for Naruto I hope his jutsu is completely new from scratch. But I also hope that Kishimoto gives him just a couple more jutsus that where just experiments for his new jutsu before he whips out the real deal that would so own.

milane
July 11, 2006, 01:30 AM
so konoha will get the news and .... naruto is in training? or it might fast forward to when naruto finished his training.... then kanoha send out the warning and the war begins! oh the sand might pop up and help konoha....

this is sad naruto is the only Jinchuuriki left!!! will he fight to death...or win and die or win and becomes the 6th ? then he might save sasuke and we all get happy ending?

oh no i just hope this manga will not end after this fight or the next fight.... still want more of this manga !! i still rember when it first came out in my country which is like 6 years ago.... wow that's long...

thejackass98
July 11, 2006, 02:01 AM
Am I the only person that doesn't want Naruto to have a bloodline limit? (I know I'm not) Naruto is Naruto. If he had bloodline limit that would kill all his character development so far. He's an over emotional, hyperactive, unpredictable, loud mouth, show-off, with a heart of gold, a goal to achieve, and the heart to do it. If he had Bloodline limit and the kyubii (sp?) that would be overkill. I think Kishimoto laid off the kyubii (sp?) just so Naruto could shine and I look forward to it. :smile-big

As for my prediction: I think we'll soon see the son of the third in action and it'll be shock to others but probably not Kakashi when they see his true abilities. I really hope he doesn't die. I really, really hope he doesn't that would suck. As for Naruto I hope his jutsu is completely new from scratch. But I also hope that Kishimoto gives him just a couple more jutsus that where just experiments for his new jutsu before he whips out the real deal that would so own.


dude i m friggin with you .. it would suck if naruto had a bloodline cuz it would make him lil cocky person like sasuke or the past neji which i dought it would happen and the huge chakkra prolly naruto jus happens to have or because the kiyubi chakkra is slowly becoming one

TheGreenFlash
July 11, 2006, 02:28 AM
So this question is a little off topic for the chapter but was just reading back through and saw this.

Firstly, i apologise for the quality but the left part but u have no idea how hard it is to find a close up of Kurenai's eyes and this is the best i could find >_<

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3301/eyes6bn.jpg

On the left is Kurenai's eyes from chapter 141, page 3. when they're versing Itachi.

On the right is the eyes of the Akatsuki leader.

It may be my eyes playing tricks but do they look pretty similar to anyone else?




I think your like the 50th person to say this lol
I say akatsuki leader = her brother....or the ultimate twist to the story Kurenai is the akatuski leader!!!




lol. right i forgot about that. I was thinking about the times when i've seen sasuke and kakashi use chidori without using the seals. Which really makes you wonder if the formation of the seals are even required for any jutsu to be performed. I'm thinkin its something like Harry Potter where the spells dont necessarily have to be said out loud, they can be 'thought of' and performed once the user has mastered doing it this way. It seems kinda silly though that chidori would be copyable sometimes and at other times it wouldnt be.


Maybe when you master a jutsu you dont need to use hand seals

rocker2
July 11, 2006, 03:00 AM
@rocker2
concerning the sealing/fuiin jutsus i was thinking the same thing, but there are some sealing techniques that dont require a contract or writing such as the 'five pronged seal" (sp? - the jutsu oro uses on sasuke in death forest) so i was wondering if theyd be copyable by the sharingan.

Also, the sharingan doesnt have a problem copying handwriting, as seen from itachi faking his friend's suicide note, so i dont see the writing seal jutsus as uncopyable by the sharingan in any case(based on your reasons as to why they are uncopyable )

The sharingan never copied the handwriting, but the energy used perform the hand-writing moves. It is just like copying taijutsu - the physical, exterior movements aren't copied, it is the energy/chakra flow that is used in performing the movements that is copied. Of course, the end result is the same since if one knows how direct the energy/chakra flow, the exterior moves will match. A sealing jutsu comprises a written/code portion and a chakra molding portion. While the sharingan-user can copy what is written, that does not mean they understand the meaning of the sealing contract nor the terms for which it is to be used. If they are smart enough, they could figure it out, but if the original ninja who made the sealing contract is smart, they can always write it in some coded format (Hirashin seals) or require a specific sequence for correct seal release or instigation (seal used for the Akatsuki barrier). Then there are those five element seals that Jiraiya and Oro used. It is possible that a sharingan user of high enough caliber could possibly distinguish the molding at each fingertip. However, this level of molding approaches the limit of the sharingan as the sharingan is not suppose to be able to see the individual chakra points (one opening per finger tip) where the element seals are being encoded in chakra (that is suppose to be the ability of the Byakugan). We only know for certain that Kakashi does not have sufficient level to do the above since he states it himself. Itachi might have the skills required. Not enough has been revealed about this limit of the sharingan to truely rule out Itachi being able to copy a five element jutsu. In general though, a sealing jutsu can be made copy-proof by any smart ninja.



Perhaps the Ultimate Jutsu will be a masterful combination of all that Naruto Knows: Example: Bloodline limit of the 4th's space bending technique, where the markers are Kage Bunshin, and each Bunshin is running around screaming while carrying a rasengan and in partial kyuubi mode?

Please try to read at least a page of prior posts before posting your own. It at least helps reduce repeated posts and reduces the number of possible mistakes in your post. Thanks. ;)

While we do not know for sure that the 4th didn't have a bloodline limit, it has already been clearly stated and shown that Hirashin, the 4th's teleportation jutsu, is a secret rank jutsu and thus has no dependance on any genetics. Any other ninja of high enough caliber can use that jutsu so long as the 4th taught it to them. Therefore, the ultimate jutsu is clearly not Hirashin or Hirashin with Kage Buushin since both would be copied by Kakashi as he helped Naruto develop the jutsu (therefore Naruto would not be the only one able to use the jutsu which is why this assumption is incorrect). Also, the Kyuubi only provides chakra to Naruto and heals him. As healing can't be used for any offensive means, that leaves the chakra portion of the Kyuubi. Unfortunately, chakra alone cannot be used to copy-proof a jutsu since there are other ninjas that could have close to the capacity of chakra that Naruto has in "partial Kyuubi mode." We've already seen the amount of chakra that Nibi can use. Please think way out of the box (i.e. do not combine existing jutsus since that would make things too predictable which Kishi has never done with major jutsus). I'm sure there are some very interesting ideas for this ultimate jutsu that have not been posted yet and that have at least a 50-50 chance of being correct. :)

SnailBeast
July 11, 2006, 05:34 AM
(1st post here, 1st post on this lang:))
I don`t remember same idea here... so
may be the new jutsu will be fuin without dying? that let Naruto be able to become ultimate jinchuuriki that able use kyuuby without that "big risk" to life?
The 1st thing I thoght was alt. rasengan... but it too predictable. any elemental jutsu will be just strong with kyubi no chkara, but there is just a small chance to be as good as req...

P.S. sry 4 my english... I am not good in it...

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 08:32 AM
I think your like the 50th person to say this lol
I say akatsuki leader = her brother....or the ultimate twist to the story Kurenai is the akatuski leader!!!


I think its her brother cuz Itachi and kisame were about to kill her so you can scratch that one out.



While we do not know for sure that the 4th didn't have a bloodline limit, it has already been clearly stated and shown that Hirashin, the 4th's teleportation jutsu, is a secret rank jutsu and thus has no dependance on any genetics. Any other ninja of high enough caliber can use that jutsu so long as the 4th taught it to them. Therefore, the ultimate jutsu is clearly not Hirashin or Hirashin with Kage Buushin since both would be copied by Kakashi as he helped Naruto develop the jutsu (therefore Naruto would not be the only one able to use the jutsu which is why this assumption is incorrect).

Eventhough it sounds plausible, the theories of Hirashin have being jumping around a lot but there has being no proof or explanation on the manga of this jutsu. Is just plain theories, Kishimoto can go with this jutsu in any way.

And we have to keep an open mind to certain things, many believe that naruto is the son of the 4th or the 4th reincarnated cuz naruto learned the rasengan fairly quick and easy. Which probably means that his body knew about from his previously life. ( Yeah, sounds farfecth but is a theory, not mine though somebody wrote it in some other place).

Me I don't think his the 4th reencarnated cuz it would transform Naruto from being the underdog that he always is to this unbeatable ninja. Meaning the series would be over. I would find more plausible for naruto to be his son. Take Azuma for example he hasn't being portrayed as one of the strongest, eventhough we now learned that he was the son of Sandaime considered the professor. And his probably strong but not as strong as sandaime. This make plausible that Naruto if he is Yondaime son, his not necesarily the type of genious he was.

In sum, it can be hiraishin or then again it won't. In reality it depends of what Kishimoto wants to show us. For me It would be awesome if he learns it as an addition in his training of developing this ultimate jutsu.

Eitherway,.............Naruto rocks!!!..and Sasuke can eat my shorts!!!!!

hermallorn
July 11, 2006, 09:01 AM
Naruto and sasuke always progress the same way. sasuke gained chidori flow, which is an offense/defense move and extreme speed so there is a good chance naruto's new jutsu will have similarities.
There is NO chances it is gonna be elemental justs, fire or wind. It will just be plain chakra.
There is NO chance it is a new killer move, rasengan is more than enough.
There is little chance it is gonna be hirashin because it is a flawed jutsu useless against someone as strong as you. It rely on suprise and then instant killing with rasengan. But against someone like akatsuki, you will notbe able to do it twice. He would look after the target kunai and booby trap it.
My guess is: it is gonna be something kyubi like, but controled by naruto (chakra arm or tail, unpiercable skin) and it could lead to an improved kage bunshin (they are just to fragile for a big fight right now)[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 08:58:00 AM_________________________________________________It is more and more strange that Yondaime had to die fighting kyubi. Any akatsuki seems to be able to beat them easily...

THETRUTH.com
July 11, 2006, 09:24 AM
Great theories being thrown around, I think Naruto's ultimate jutsu will not be Hiraishin but depending on how long Kishi plans to keep the series (hoping for another time-skip) going I think he will learn it. I think that it is more probable that Asuma will die rather that Kurenai because he has the best young mind on his team, Shikamaru, to take over. Also his team learns alot their of skills from their parents but I dont think he will die just more likely. Asuma is primed to showcase some major abilities maybe he was motivated after his fathers death to increase his training.

Prediction: Report temple situation and training talk.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 09:49 AM
Naruto and sasuke always progress the same way. sasuke gained chidori flow, which is an offense/defense move and extreme speed so there is a good chance naruto's new jutsu will have similarities.
There is NO chances it is gonna be elemental justs, fire or wind. It will just be plain chakra.
There is NO chance it is a new killer move, rasengan is more than enough.
There is little chance it is gonna be hirashin because it is a flawed jutsu useless against someone as strong as you. It rely on suprise and then instant killing with rasengan. But against someone like akatsuki, you will notbe able to do it twice. He would look after the target kunai and booby trap it.
My guess is: it is gonna be something kyubi like, but controled by naruto (chakra arm or tail, unpiercable skin) and it could lead to an improved kage bunshin (they are just to fragile for a big fight right now)[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 08:58:00 AM_________________________________________________It is more and more strange that Yondaime had to die fighting kyubi. Any akatsuki seems to be able to beat them easily...


Kakashi himself refutes one of your points when he says in 314: "Physical Recomposition will be an absolute necessity for you to acquire a jutsu surpassing Rasengan". The "Physical Recomposition" aspect of the jutsu is when it's form is decided, and since the Rasengan's form is automatically chosen because of it's Spactial Recomposition, this makes it follow up to only half the criteria Kakashi mentioned. (FYI Fire and Wind jutsus are just chakra in the form of fire and wind.... chakra is ALWAYS used. But if you mean that the jutsu will consist of only chakra control, then you missed the point of this training entirely...)

Naruto's new jutsu will have both "form" and "substance"... and in that aspect and others will surass the Rasengan.
As for killing... It more against Naruto's nature, but I have never seen anyone killed from the Rasengan. Chidori is an assassination jutsu, but since it's introduction the Rasengan has be used only Kabuto has taken a lethal blow.

As for Kyuubi... Wasn't a major part of the last arc designed to take Naruto away from using the Kyuubi? The more he uses it, the more the seal weakens, and the more Kyuubi escapes. If Naruto were to incorporate the Kyuubi in his ULTIMATE jutsu, there is a high probability that it would greatly weaken the seal everytime it's used...

This major flaw is what the last arc was trying to avoid, and i hope it's mistake is NOT made again...[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 05:46:30 AM_________________________________________________

Great theories being thrown around, I think Naruto's ultimate jutsu will not be Hiraishin but depending on how long Kishi plans to keep the series (hoping for another time-skip) going I think he will learn it. I think that it is more probable that Asuma will die rather that Kurenai because he has the best young mind on his team, Shikamaru, to take over. Also his team learns alot their of skills from their parents but I dont think he will die just more likely. Asuma is primed to showcase some major abilities maybe he was motivated after his fathers death to increase his training.

Prediction: Report temple situation and training talk.


Yeah, it's also kind of tragic to see that after his rough-and-wild days, Asuma settles down, only to meet the same fate as his father... a GREAT end, but this time i would say far too soon... Honestly i would like to Asuma stay arround, long enough for Kuranai to be captured or something... Imagine his character then. We have always seen him calm, and cool... seeing Asuma livid could prove to pull out something deep within his character. I really can't wait to see where Kishi goes...

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 10:23 AM
Naruto and sasuke always progress the same way. sasuke gained chidori flow, which is an offense/defense move and extreme speed so there is a good chance naruto's new jutsu will have similarities.
There is NO chances it is gonna be elemental justs, fire or wind. It will just be plain chakra.
There is NO chance it is a new killer move, rasengan is more than enough.
There is little chance it is gonna be hirashin because it is a flawed jutsu useless against someone as strong as you. It rely on suprise and then instant killing with rasengan. But against someone like akatsuki, you will notbe able to do it twice. He would look after the target kunai and booby trap it.
My guess is: it is gonna be something kyubi like, but controled by naruto (chakra arm or tail, unpiercable skin) and it could lead to an improved kage bunshin (they are just to fragile for a big fight right now)[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 08:58:00 AM_________________________________________________It is more and more strange that Yondaime had to die fighting kyubi. Any akatsuki seems to be able to beat them easily...
they beat gaara, who naru beat when he was a genin, also gaara was protecting his village. they beat nibi, well cuz she is lame. oro is pretty confident that naruto can take out akatsuki members, i mean come on, would hidans cute little trick work even against 3tailed naru, he's gonna revive himself after being dismembered by naruto in the first split second of the fight?

all you people, pay attention. if naru used kyuubi to fight sasuke, sasuke would be dead. he was changing his routine he practiced for the last 2 years, mid game. he was stopping kyuubi, and since he was stoping kyuubi, it was that easy for sasuke to push kyuubi back because naruto was already doing that.

oro was cute with naruto until he went 4th tail, then he was just trying to stay alive, don't argue this point, no more rehtoric. it's plain as day his ultimate attack ( kusanagi) only irritated the 4tailed kyuubi.

sure kakuzu is strong but kyuubi would cut him in half, reread that fight, kyuubi is terrifying. even against akatsuki.
itachi going genjutsu against kyuubi would probably get eaten, yes i know i am going out there, but this stuuff is elementary.

as for his training, if naruto's basic stats are improved, he doesn't even need an ultimate jutsu, this kid is strong, believe it.

angry
July 11, 2006, 10:25 AM
Therefore, the ultimate jutsu is clearly not Hirashin or Hirashin with Kage Buushin since both would be copied by Kakashi as he helped Naruto develop the jutsu.
Well thats only considering Kakashi uses his Sharingan to train Naruto and Kakshi is fast enough to be able to follow Naruto's movements. For example, if Kakashi uses his Sharingan to displace time somehow... slow things down to create more time (maybe going into another dimension, maybe Tsu-whats-the-name-omi), then there is no guarantee Kakashi can use his sharingan in that other dimension... maybe he can't because he's using his Sharingan to contain the dimension and can't use it to copy anything.

However I don't think Naruto will develop Hirashin just yet ^^, so i agree with you on that.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 10:29 AM
Well thats only considering Kakashi uses his Sharingan to train Naruto and Kakshi is fast enough to be able to follow Naruto's movements. For example, if Kakashi uses his Sharingan to displace time somehow... slow things down to create more time (maybe going into another dimension, maybe Tsu-whats-the-name-omi), then there is no guarantee Kakashi can use his sharingan in that other dimension... maybe he can't because he's using his Sharingan to contain the dimension and can't use it to copy anything.

However I don't think Naruto will develop Hirashin just yet ^^, so i agree with you on that.
learning a specific ( move faster) technique is not necessary with naruto. it won't be hiraishin or body flicker

i will bet this jutsu will synchronize and fine tune his access to his power. it will seem like he learned the fourth's techniques, but his natural ability will just be that much higher

not to mention kakashi could just imprint his understanding of jutsu on naruto's brain.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 10:31 AM
they beat gaara, who naru beat when he was a genin, also gaara was protecting his village. they beat nibi, well cuz she is lame. oro is pretty confident that naruto can take out akatsuki members, i mean come on, would hidans cute little trick work even against 3tailed naru, he's gonna revive himself after being dismembered by naruto in the first split second of the fight?

all you people, pay attention. if naru used kyuubi to fight sasuke, sasuke would be dead. he was changing his routine he practiced for the last 2 years, mid game. he was stopping kyuubi, and since he was stoping kyuubi, it was that easy for sasuke to push kyuubi back because naruto was already doing that.

oro was cute with naruto until he went 4th tail, then he was just trying to stay alive, don't argue this point, no more rehtoric. it's plain as day his ultimate attack ( kusanagi) only irritated the 4tailed kyuubi.

sure kakuzu is strong but kyuubi would cut him in half, reread that fight, kyuubi is terrifying. even against akatsuki.
itachi going genjutsu against kyuubi would probably get eaten, yes i know i am going out there, but this stuuff is elementary.


I have no idea how you can say that... at all...
I believe you mean to say, "If Kyuubi took over Naruto's body like he did against Orochimaru, then Sasuke would lose"... But if Naruto stayed conscious of his actions using KB3 or lower, Sasuke would easily be able to stay with him due to the CS. The problem is, in those close quarters, Yamato,Sai, and Sakura would have probably been injured as well... remember, Yamato would not have been able to repell the Kyuubi, and he would have rampaged until Naruto ran out of Chakra... (Doesn't seem like the right thing for Naruto to do right? It would make Naruto a bit more like Sasuke if he did somethin like that... "power by any means necessary")

But even then, Orochimaru and Kabuto would have come to help... making it a 3 vs Kyuubi/Naruto situation. And being that Orochimaru can fight on an equal level for a while, and Kabuto's hidden Nature... I am quite confident that those three would STILL get away alive.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 10:38 AM
I have no idea how you can say that... at all...
I believe you mean to say, "If Kyuubi took over Naruto's body like he did against Orochimaru, then Sasuke would lose"... But if Naruto stayed conscious of his actions using KB3 or lower, Sasuke would easily be able to stay with him due to the CS. The problem is, in those close quarters, Yamato,Sai, and Sakura would have probably been injured as well... remember, Yamato would not have been able to repell the Kyuubi, and he would have rampaged until Naruto ran out of Chakra... (Doesn't seem like the right thing for Naruto to do right? It would make Naruto a bit more like Sasuke if he did somethin like that... "power by any means necessary")

But even then, Orochimaru and Kabuto would have come to help... making it a 3 vs Kyuubi/Naruto situation. And being that Orochimaru can fight on an equal level for a while, and Kabuto's hidden Nature... I am quite confident that those three would STILL get away alive.


no, i disagree, i never mentioned if they would get hurt that should be assumed. yamato said it. all three of them against 4 tails would die, if you didn't notice during that fight kyuubi kept getting stronger.

what i mean exactly is naruto has decided that he wants to do it without kyuubi, that makes him weeker, he has never trained without kyuubi power.

sasuke would have died, like in the vote arc, naruto is trying to bring him back and sasuke is trying to kill naruto. there is a huge difference. lets not get confused about kyuubi's power. it is unrivaled.

just like itachi is that strong, kyuubi is that much stronger, and that was only 4 tails.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 10:46 AM
no, i disagree, i never mentioned if they would get hurt that should be assumed. yamato said it. all three of them against 4 tails would die, if you didn't notice during that fight kyuubi kept getting stronger.

what i mean exactly is naruto has decided that he wants to do it without kyuubi, that makes him weeker, he has never trained without kyuubi power.

sasuke would have died, like in the vote arc, naruto is trying to bring him back and sasuke is trying to kill naruto. there is a huge difference. lets not get confused about kyuubi's power. it is unrivaled.

just like itachi is that strong, kyuubi is that much stronger, and that was only 4 tails.


Sure, when at full power I am sure Kyuubi's power was unrivaled... But i think to say that a little under HALF of it's full power is enough to take down three high-ranking ninjas, is too much of an overstatement of power. Think about what you are saying for a moment. Jiraiya quelled the 4-tails himself, ALONE. If at 4 tails, Kyuubi is so godly... that would never be possible, and Jiraiya would have perished.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 10:50 AM
Sure, when at full power I am sure Kyuubi's power was unrivaled... But i think to say that a little under HALF of it's full power is enough to take down three high-ranking ninjas, is too much of an overstatement of power. Think about what you are saying for a moment. Jiraiya quelled the 4-tails himself, ALONE. If at 4 tails, Kyuubi is so godly... that would never be possible, and Jiraiya would have perished.
reread the jiraiya speech to yamato , kakashi and tsunade. he ( kyuubi went on a rampage despite numerous serious injuries, until he calmed down, jiraiya did not stop 4 tails. he calmed down on his own.

then the flashback of naruto talking to yamato, jiraiya was half dead, bloodied and beaten.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 10:56 AM
reread the jiraiya speech to yamato , kakashi and tsunade. he ( kyuubi went on a rampage despite numerous serious injuries, until he calmed down, jiraiya did not stop 4 tails. he calmed down on his own.

then the flashback of naruto talking to yamato, jiraiya was half dead, bloodied and beaten.


My point still stands, with no-one else around... Jiraiya stayed alive against the 4-tails. Are you meaning to tell me that if Jiraiya went up against Orochimaru, Sasuke, and Kabuto he would come out alive?
I do not think so... Those three would outlast the Kyuubi just as Jiraiya did, thanks to Orochimaru's direction of course.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 11:02 AM
Sure, when at full power I am sure Kyuubi's power was unrivaled... But i think to say that a little under HALF of it's full power is enough to take down three high-ranking ninjas, is too much of an overstatement of power. Think about what you are saying for a moment. Jiraiya quelled the 4-tails himself, ALONE. If at 4 tails, Kyuubi is so godly... that would never be possible, and Jiraiya would have perished.


Dude with 3 tails not even kabuto could get near him. With only chakra he oblibarte that bridge and almost killed kabuto he needed to heal himself in order to move again.

What Shishi-o mentioned is true if naruto would have gone 4 tails on sasuke he wouldn't have lasted pretty long not even if orochimaru was there. And as per the last conversation kiuby and naruto had, kiuby was aiming to break the seal, if Naruto didn't say no he would have being fighting with more than 4 tails.



My point still stands, with no-one else around... Jiraiya stayed alive against the 4-tails. Are you meaning to tell me that if Jiraiya went up against Orochimaru, Sasuke, and Kabuto he would come out alive?
I do not think so... Those three would outlast the Kyuubi just as Jiraiya did, thanks to Orochimaru's direction of course.


He could have used the seal to unbalanced kiuby's chakra. Like the postage stamp kakashi used to stop naruto-kiuby trasnformation against deidara. Remember naruto-kiuby power are rage base with orochimaru there, I wouldn't be surprise if naruto started to turn green like the hulk!!!

Uchiro
July 11, 2006, 11:02 AM
no, i disagree, i never mentioned if they would get hurt that should be assumed. yamato said it. all three of them against 4 tails would die, if you didn't notice during that fight kyuubi kept getting stronger.

what i mean exactly is naruto has decided that he wants to do it without kyuubi, that makes him weeker, he has never trained without kyuubi power.

sasuke would have died, like in the vote arc, naruto is trying to bring him back and sasuke is trying to kill naruto. there is a huge difference. lets not get confused about kyuubi's power. it is unrivaled.

just like itachi is that strong, kyuubi is that much stronger, and that was only 4 tails.


I wouldn't say Naruto has <i>never</i> trained without using the Kyuubi chakra. training with Kakashi, the bell training and all, learning rasengan... he did not use Kyuubi power during these moments. the only time I remember seeing him use Kyuubi to train wa when he learned to summon Gamabunta, and even then it took him weeks. Jiraiya had to throw him over a friggin cliff to get him to be able to use the Chakra on his own.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 11:07 AM
Dude with 3 tails not even kabuto could get near him. With only chakra he oblibarte that bridge and almost killed kabuto he needed to heal himself in order to move again.

What Shishi-o mentioned is true if naruto would have gone 4 tails on sasuke he wouldn't have lasted pretty long not even if orochimaru was there. And as per the last conversation kiuby and naruto had, kiuby was aiming to break the seal, if Naruto didn't say no he would have being fighting with more than 4 tails.


I agreed with him on that point... Sasuke alone would not have much of a chance. My point is that the three of them combined could escape and possible outlast the Kyuubi. Kabuto really did do something quite stupid by just rushing at Naruto in that state... but if you don't think Kabuto learned from that, you are underetimating him greatly.

The greater problem is that Naruto would have hurt his comrades in the process... again.

But remember... Naruto has shown a trend of having to build up to his highest levels of Kyuubi. Meaning it would take a substatial amount of time for him to reach KB4... In that time, Yamato himself would attempt to stop Naruto as well. Especially with the necklace broken...

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:08 AM
My point still stands, with no-one else around... Jiraiya stayed alive against the 4-tails. Are you meaning to tell me that if Jiraiya went up against Orochimaru, Sasuke, and Kabuto he would come out alive?
I do not think so... Those three would outlast the Kyuubi just as Jiraiya did, thanks to Orochimaru's direction of course.
what are you saying? i said nothing like what you said.

i will restate; jiraiya was beaten and kyuubi calmed down on his own.

if those three fought him they would die.

jiraiya didn't outlast kyuubi, kyuubi got bored of watching him bleed.,

if sasu , oro, and kabuto, faught him they would all die, because even at a detriment to his lifespan kyuubi just gets stronger

kabuto was beaten by one tailed chakra venting, remember the k4t vs oro fight? no one else could even get close to the action.

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 11:12 AM
what are you saying? i said nothing like what you said.

i will restate; jiraiya was beaten and kyuubi calmed down on his own.

if those three fought him they would die.

jiraiya didn't outlast kyuubi, kyuubi got bored of watching him bleed.,

if sasu , oro, and kabuto, faught him they would all die, because even at a detriment to his lifespan kyuubi just gets stronger


Kyuubi got bored? Appearently you believe that Naruto is just some puppet that Kyuubi can use tirelessly? No my friend, it is far more likely that Naruto's body reached it's limits, and kyuubi was forced to retreat back behind the seal. Naruto's body is what causes the limit in Kyuubi's powers, and if three ninjas can do that... they can survive, just as Jiraiya did.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:15 AM
Kyuubi got bored? Appearently you believe that Naruto is just some puppet that Kyuubi can use tirelessly? No my friend, it is far more likely that Naruto's body reached it's limits, and kyuubi was forced to retreat back behind the seal. Naruto's body is what causes the limit in Kyuubi's powers, and if three ninjas can do that... they can survive, just as Jiraiya did.
he got bored, jiraiya was no longer a threat, so he was left alone.

naruto is kyuubi's puppet. he uses his rage against naruto, to grant him power. look at the "chase sasuke through the seal gate" event that released k4t.

in your book survival must mean not being killed. in mine it means, you could handle the situation. if you could handle the situation, you are not laying bloody on the floor.

jiraiya was fortunate to survive. in his own words, that is one of the times he almost died.

CheckMate
July 11, 2006, 11:16 AM
i will restate; jiraiya was beaten and kyuubi calmed down on his own.

jiraiya didn't outlast kyuubi, kyuubi got bored of watching him bleed.,


sorry mate, but i couldnt recall any information regarding your post above.

i know that jiraiya got hurt because of KB4, but how naruto was unkyubified, no one knows, except our author.

but consider how wild and aggresive naruto becomes in his kyuubi-4 mode, i dont think, he would let jiraiya alive, so i'd say the reason naruto didnt kill jiraiya is either jiraiya fleed, or he managed to defeat the kyuubi

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 11:22 AM
he got bored, jiraiya was no longer a threat, so he was left alone.

naruto is kyuubi's puppet. he uses his rage against naruto, to grant him power. look at the "chase sasuke through the seal gate" event that released k4t


Come on, there is absolutle NO proof of that... But on many occasions we have seen that when Naruto passes out, or he uses up too much energy... he looses a grip on the Kyuubi's powers. Just like in the Sasuke vs. Naruto right. If what you were saying was right... Kyuubi could just hold onto Naruto indefinetly. Do you really believe that it's just Kyuubi's will that allows Naruto to control his own body? From my point of view, Kyuubi seems like an oppotunist, and if he could hold Naruto's consciousness back... he would do it as long as possible...[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 07:18:42 AM_________________________________________________



sorry mate, but i couldnt recall any information regarding your post above.

i know that jiraiya got hurt because of KB4, but how naruto was unkyubified, no one knows, except our author.

but consider how wild and aggresive naruto becomes in his kyuubi-4 mode, i dont think, he would let jiraiya alive, so i'd say the reason naruto didnt kill jiraiya is either jiraiya fleed, or he managed to defeat the kyuubi


Exactly, man...
Rememeber what Kyuubi asked Naruto when he went to see him during the Sai/Sasuke arc? ... "Who do you want me to kill?"
I don't believe Kyuubi has ANY sense of mercy.

Yondaime_101
July 11, 2006, 11:25 AM
Guys, what about that pattern:
First he learned how to summon Gamabunta (the last person to do so was Yondaime); then he learned Rasengan (the one who created that was Yondaime); what about kage Bunshin...I know it's not the same as Hiraishin or body flicker (are they the same ??) but they do have the same principle of getting the body (even if clones) where the user wants them...another common link to the 4th..I am guessing his next ultimate Jutsu must have something related to the 4th.

Finally, Jiraya taught the 4th who in turn taught kakshi who in turn is teaching Naruto!! Jiraya also taught Naruto!

NOONE can outlast Kyuubi...he has unlimited chakra! If you look at KB4. it attacked when provoked!! It has a thought of its own, neither Naruto nor Kyubi has control...so if left alone it would stay quiet..when sakura rushed to it, it attacked!

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:29 AM
sorry mate, but i couldnt recall any information regarding your post above.

i know that jiraiya got hurt because of KB4, but how naruto was unkyubified, no one knows, except our author.

but consider how wild and aggresive naruto becomes in his kyuubi-4 mode, i dont think, he would let jiraiya alive, so i'd say the reason naruto didnt kill jiraiya is either jiraiya fleed, or he managed to defeat the kyuubi
here are the pages

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 11:30 AM
Guys, what about that pattern:
First he learned how to summon Gamabunta (the last person to do so was Yondaime); then he learned Rasengan (the one who created that was Yondaime); what about kage Bunshin...I know it's not the same as Hiraishin or body flicker (are they the same ??) but they do have the same principle of getting the body (even if clones) where the user wants them...another common link to the 4th..I am guessing his next ultimate Jutsu must have something related to the 4th.

Finally, Jiraya taught the 4th who in turn taught kakshi who in turn is teaching Naruto!! Jiraya also taught Naruto!

NOONE can outlast Kyuubi...he has unlimited chakra! If you look at KB4. it attacked when provoked!! It has a thought of its own, neither Naruto nor Kyubi has control...so if left alone it would stay quiet..when sakura rushed to it, it attacked!


Unlimited? I would say it's quite limited to the fact that Naruto can be defeated in Kyuubi mode, and the fact that has been sealed in such a way that Naruto can only unlock another after years of training (getting pissed off enough...lol)

But while it attacked Sakura when provoked... K4Naruto attacked Orochimaru relentlessly, and for half of that fight Orochimaru was merely defending. Meaning Naruto went to Kyuubi and said... "KILL OROCHIMARUUUUUUUU!!!"

Sakura was just plain lucky that Yamato was there.. or she would have been killed as well...

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 11:32 AM
Come on, there is absolutle NO proof of that... But on many occasions we have seen that when Naruto passes out, or he uses up too much energy... he looses a grip on the Kyuubi's powers. Just like in the Sasuke vs. Naruto right. If what you were saying was right... Kyuubi could just hold onto Naruto indefinetly. Do you really believe that it's just Kyuubi's will that allows Naruto to control his own body. From my point of view, Kyuubi seems like an oppotunist, and if he could hold Naruto's consciousness back... he would do it as long as possible...[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 07:18:42 AM_________________________________________________
Exactly, man...
Rememeber what Kyuubi asked Naruto when he went to see him during the Sai/Sasuke arc? ... "Who do you want me to kill?"
I don't believe Kyuubi has ANY sense of mercy.


Given probably Jiraiya outlasted the naruto-kiuby transformation by the method of flee. But I really doubt Jiraiya outbested naruto-kiuby 4th tail, not even orochimaru with his kusanagi sword made a dent to naruto. He just kept getting madder and stronger.

Kiuby is using naruto rage against him to unleash more of his powers. Thats his way of getting free or let loose. The worst part is kiuby recognizing that the seal is getting weaker with every transformation.

When Kiuby taunts naruto to get him furious. But in truth if naruto would have accepted kiuby's proposition probably more tails would have come out. Ain't nobody surviving that, even if your friend or foe!!

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 11:35 AM
Given probably Jiraiya outlasted the naruto-kiuby transformation by the method of flee. But I really doubt Jiraiya outbested naruto-kiuby 4th tail, not even orochimaru with his kusanagi sword made a dent to naruto. He just kept getting madder and stronger.

Kiuby is using naruto rage against him to unleash more of his powers. Thats his way of getting free or let loose. The worst part is kiuby recognizing that the seal is getting weaker with every transformation.

When Kiuby taunts naruto to get him furious. But in truth if naruto would have accepted kiuby's proposition probably more tails would have come out. Ain't nobody surviving that, even if your friend or foe!!


But Jiraiya DID survive that... even if slimly... he did. And that was 1 on 1. This is one of the first times i have every heard that a 3 vs 1 situation is somehow worse that 1 on 1....
And if Jiraiya was near death.. i really don't think he would have have enough energy to flee...

For all we know, Jiraiya may have had to use a jutsu that, along with the lethal injuries he recieved.. led to his near death...

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:48 AM
Given probably Jiraiya outlasted the naruto-kiuby transformation by the method of flee. But I really doubt Jiraiya outbested naruto-kiuby 4th tail, not even orochimaru with his kusanagi sword made a dent to naruto. He just kept getting madder and stronger.

Kiuby is using naruto rage against him to unleash more of his powers. Thats his way of getting free or let loose. The worst part is kiuby recognizing that the seal is getting weaker with every transformation.

When Kiuby taunts naruto to get him furious. But in truth if naruto would have accepted kiuby's proposition probably more tails would have come out. Ain't nobody surviving that, even if your friend or foe!!
thank you, he is worst than the hulk, oro recognised that he can't fight him at an equal level. and that he can without doubt take out a few akatsuki members.

@dms-he did't flee as you can see from my post, naruto found him on the floor bleeding.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 11:50 AM
But Jiraiya DID survive that... even if slimly... he did. And that was 1 on 1. This is one of the first times i have every heard that a 3 vs 1 situation is somehow worse that 1 on 1....
And if Jiraiya was near death.. i really don't think he would have have enough energy to flee...

For all we know, Jiraiya may have had to use a jutsu that, along with the lethal injuries he recieved.. led to his near death...


What would the difference in this fight for instance Kabuto already knows his no match so he wouldn't get near it. So that leaves 2 on 1. The kusanagi swords of Sasuke or Orochimaru don't work either. Orochimaru was facing the effects of his deteriorating body which means he wouldn't see to much action. Which leaves Sasuke and in his previous fight against naruto he had to go all out transform to CS2 in order to beat a one-tail transformation.

What would happened if naruto was using 4 tails.

This fight would have left a scar on everyone. But unfurtenatly that would have meant probably the death of fellow comrades cuz Sai wasn't gonna get out of the way and sakura was a no show, like always.

But thats why kishimoto is making the money with this manga cuz he keeps guessing.

CheckMate
July 11, 2006, 11:59 AM
he did't flee as you can see from my post, naruto found him on the floor bleeding.


i am sorry for being a bit stubborn.. but in ur attached-image, we cannot see where naruto was and what had happened to him.
and yeah i cannot imagine KB-4 stopped his attack just bcoz jiariya was bleding - unharmful there

the other possibilities:
it could be naruto's chakra was drained during his KB4 mode, and then jiraiya brought him home.
it could be jiraiya had defeated him, and then brought him home.

your theory though, could be true, but there is no poof of that. no evidence, at least not the strong one, to say that KB-4 didnt kill jiraiya bcoz he wanted to do so.

and after seeing what KB-4 was capable of and what his nature, i tend to believe that jiraiya somewhat was NOT defeated by kyuubi.
he lost, and he would be dead by now.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 12:05 PM
i am sorry for being a bit stubborn.. but in ur attached-image, we cannot see where naruto was.
more importantly, a lot thing can happen that time.

it could be naruto's chakra was drained during his KB4 mode, and then jiraiya brought him home.
it could be jiraiya had defeated him, and then brought him home.

your theory though, could be true, but there is no poof of that. no evidence, at least not the strong one, to say that KB-4 didnt kill jiraiya bcoz he wanted to do so.

and after seeing what KB-4 was capable of and what his nature, i tend to believe that jiraiya somewhat was NOT defeated by kyuubi

I AM SORRY BUT JIRAIYA STATES IT PLAINLY.

once the chakra shroud dissipatated. not and i state, not; when i stopped his chakra. and it's obvious naruto found jiraiya on the floor, not jiraiya standing over naruto.

please post your evidence to counter mine. i would love to see it.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 12:08 PM
i am sorry for being a bit stubborn.. but in ur attached-image, we cannot see where naruto was.
more importantly, a lot thing can happen that time.



But if you see it clearly Jiraiya was talking to him. Its a first-person perspective photo. Naruto woke up and found Jiraiya like that. Jiraiya is in a position like if he couldn't move and after Naruto healed and woke up Naruto's is asking what happened? (Again this is an assumption cuz it wasn't detailed like this, but to me is more or less what happened, or the way I see it)
And jiraiya says, you don't remember what happened?. And this is said in naruto perspective.

We saw what naruto remembered. That he woke up and looked around saw the rubble and found Jiraiya half dead.

True a lot of things could have happened, but is the one that makes more sense. Remember Jiraiya was half dead he couldn't do much in that state.

gold roger
July 11, 2006, 12:40 PM
Here's the direction I think Naruto's new technique will take:

First I think it will be original, no changed rasengan. If it's not original it will be a individual recreation of the fourth body flicker.

I don't think it will be a defensive jutsu, genjutsu or ranged attack jutsu. It's fairly untipical for Naruto to cover up his weaknesses, the jutsu will play to his strengths. A ranged direct attack by Naruto would miss all the time anyway, Naruto doesn't try to evade attacks anyway, he suffers through them thanks to his incredible thoughness.

It won't be a direct attack melee jutsu, because Naruto already has Rasengan for that.

Instead I think the new jutsu will reinforce Naruto's two qualities that have been a bit in the background recently, his non-kyubii qualities: That he's a trickster and unpredictable surprise Ninja.

Because of this I think his new jutsu will be a utility jutsu, like the kagebunshin, the body flicker or Jiraias swamp jutsu. A Jutsu that doesn't have any direct advantage, but can be used creatively and either improves the users or hinders the opponents fighting position in the long term.

I further think that his new jutsu may seem to be a bit ridiculous at first, but surprisingly effective.

It has repeatetly been hinted in the manga that the kyuubi will have to take a backseat, so we will see a naruto that is a bit more like the underdog we knew and loved before he begann relying on his bijou power and just raged on.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 12:54 PM
i like your idea, i thought almost the same.

but what kind of jutsu do you think can put him just under yondaime level.

that is why i think just being able to keep up with ms kakashi, would put him on a whole other playing field. mark my words, when he fights the pair( hidan, and kakauzu) he's gonna pwn

rocker2
July 11, 2006, 01:14 PM
First of all, as I stated before, Hirashin is a secret rank jutsu - this is not a theory, but a fact. It was stated in one of the earlier chapters. Go back and read carefully if you do not believe this. Therefore, Hirashin will not be the base of the ultimate jutsu. Kakashi does not need his sharingan to copy whatever Naruto is going to develop since they are developing the jutsu together. The only thing that can stop Kakashi from using Naruto's new jutsu is some genetic linkage of the jutsu to Naruto. This was quite clearly implied when Kakashi stated that the only one who would be able to use Naruto's jutsu would be Naruto himself, that it would be greater than rasengan (meaning better than A/super-A rank) and possibly outstrip Kakashi (meaning the jutsu would also outstrip bloodline-limit MS).

As for the KB4 Naruto, the Kyuubi plain sucks as a fighter (Naruto is merely the vessel here). It charges without thinking - it is just pure rage. At the same time, the KB4 Naruto is impenetrable. Oro's Kusangi sword would not penetrate it meaning nothing else will. KB4 Naruto also has a chakra supply that outstrips any known characters to date. So the question is how did Jiraiya stop KB4 Naruto while Oro could not? The simple fact of the matter is Jiraiya is more powerful than Oro. One might say what? They're both Sannin and Oro's got all these wicked jutsus. To solve this mystery, one just needs to go back to part 1 and reread the later half of the part. Itachi clearly states that Jiraiya and him are on an equal level. If they fought head on, it would be a draw and at best, both would die. Itachi never made the same claim for Oro or Tsunade, though he had ample chance to do so. Finally, Oro and Sasuke both recognize the fact that Itachi is above Oro's level. While jutsus are necessary to bring out one's strengths, one does not need hundreds to thousands of jutsus to do this. Jiraiya has his special set of jutsus that he uses very well and serve him very well.

The question still remains, how did Jiraiya quell KB4 Naruto? While only Kishi has the true answer, look back at the KB4's weakness - it attacks wildly and thus leaves many openings for the enemy to attack it. Oro quite stupidly tried to take on a more powerful opponent using blunt force attacks. Oro is a genius, but is also too arrogant which is likely the reason he used force to try to fight the KB4. Jiraiya, on the other hand, does not use such strategy. He is more of a summoning and sealing master. If the KB4 left the correct opening, as was seen in part 1, a five element seal to the Naruto's abdomen would disrupt the Kyuubi chakra flow and thus stop KB4. The trick of course is getting close enough to do so. We saw two cases where Oro got close enough to pull this off. Of course the KB4, because of its speed, would likely get in an attack or two before the chakra flow was disrupted enough (also Jiraiya would be directly in front of KB4 Naruto after application of the seal) and this could be the reason behind Jiraiya's slash injuries (compare against the sequence with Oro's attack to KB4 Naruto during the 1st opening).

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 01:22 PM
First of all, as I stated before, Hirashin is a secret rank jutsu - this is not a theory, but a fact. It was stated in one of the earlier chapters. Go back and read carefully if you do not believe this. Therefore, Hirashin will not be the base of the ultimate jutsu. Kakashi does not need his sharingan to copy whatever Naruto is going to develop since they are developing the jutsu together. The only thing that can stop Kakashi from using Naruto's new jutsu is some genetic linkage of the jutsu to Naruto. This was quite clearly implied when Kakashi stated that the only one who would be able to use Naruto's jutsu would be Naruto himself, that it would be greater than rasengan (meaning better than A/super-A rank) and possibly outstrip Kakashi (meaning the jutsu would also outstrip bloodline-limit MS).

As for the KB4 Naruto, the Kyuubi plain sucks as a fighter (Naruto is merely the vessel here). It charges without thinking - it is just pure rage. At the same time, the KB4 Naruto is impenetrable. Oro's Kusangi sword would not penetrate it meaning nothing else will. KB4 Naruto also has a chakra supply that outstrips any known characters to date. So the question is how did Jiraiya stop KB4 Naruto while Oro could not? The simple fact of the matter is Jiraiya is more powerful than Oro. One might say what? They're both Sannin and Oro's got all these wicked jutsus. To solve this mystery, one just needs to go back to part 1 and reread the later half of the part. Itachi clearly states that Jiraiya and him are on an equal level. If they fought head on, it would be a draw and at best, both would die. Itachi never made the same claim for Oro or Tsunade, though he had ample chance to do so. Finally, Oro and Sasuke both recognize the fact that Itachi is above Oro's level. While jutsus are necessary to bring out one's strengths, one does not need hundreds to thousands of jutsus to do this. Jiraiya has his special set of jutsus that he uses very well and serve him very well.

The question still remains, how did Jiraiya quell KB4 Naruto? While only Kishi has the true answer, look back at the KB4's weakness - it attacks wildly and thus leaves many openings for the enemy to attack it. Oro quite stupidly tried to take on a more powerful opponent using blunt force attacks. Oro is a genius, but is also too arrogant which is likely the reason he used force to try to fight the KB4. Jiraiya, on the other hand, does not use such strategy. He is more of a summoning and sealing master. If the KB4 left the correct opening, as was seen in part 1, a five element seal to the Naruto's abdomen would disrupt the Kyuubi chakra flow and thus stop KB4. The trick of course is getting close enough to do so. We saw two cases where Oro got close enough to pull this off. Of course the KB4, because of its speed, would likely get in an attack or two before the chakra flow was disrupted enough (also Jiraiya would be directly in front of KB4 Naruto after application of the seal) and this could be the reason behind Jiraiya's slash injuries (compare against the sequence with Oro's attack to KB4 Naruto during the 1st opening).
reread my posts, he did not stop kyuubi.

naruto found jiraya, on the floor half dead.

i never said he would need to copy naruto's tech. them training together and all, naruto having to train against ms kakashi would raise his level substantially.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 01:28 PM
First of all, as I stated before, Hirashin is a secret rank jutsu - this is not a theory, but a fact. It was stated in one of the earlier chapters. Go back and read carefully if you do not believe this. Therefore, Hirashin will not be the base of the ultimate jutsu. Kakashi does not need his sharingan to copy whatever Naruto is going to develop since they are developing the jutsu together. The only thing that can stop Kakashi from using Naruto's new jutsu is some genetic linkage of the jutsu to Naruto. This was quite clearly implied when Kakashi stated that the only one who would be able to use Naruto's jutsu would be Naruto himself, that it would be greater than rasengan (meaning better than A/super-A rank) and possibly outstrip Kakashi (meaning the jutsu would also outstrip bloodline-limit MS).

As for the KB4 Naruto, the Kyuubi plain sucks as a fighter (Naruto is merely the vessel here). It charges without thinking - it is just pure rage. At the same time, the KB4 Naruto is impenetrable. Oro's Kusangi sword would not penetrate it meaning nothing else will. KB4 Naruto also has a chakra supply that outstrips any known characters to date. So the question is how did Jiraiya stop KB4 Naruto while Oro could not? The simple fact of the matter is Jiraiya is more powerful than Oro. One might say what? They're both Sannin and Oro's got all these wicked jutsus. To solve this mystery, one just needs to go back to part 1 and reread the later half of the part. Itachi clearly states that Jiraiya and him are on an equal level. If they fought head on, it would be a draw and at best, both would die. Itachi never made the same claim for Oro or Tsunade, though he had ample chance to do so. Finally, Oro and Sasuke both recognize the fact that Itachi is above Oro's level. While jutsus are necessary to bring out one's strengths, one does not need hundreds to thousands of jutsus to do this. Jiraiya has his special set of jutsus that he uses very well and serve him very well.

The question still remains, how did Jiraiya quell KB4 Naruto? While only Kishi has the true answer, look back at the KB4's weakness - it attacks wildly and thus leaves many openings for the enemy to attack it. Oro quite stupidly tried to take on a more powerful opponent using blunt force attacks. Oro is a genius, but is also too arrogant which is likely the reason he used force to try to fight the KB4. Jiraiya, on the other hand, does not use such strategy. He is more of a summoning and sealing master. If the KB4 left the correct opening, as was seen in part 1, a five element seal to the Naruto's abdomen would disrupt the Kyuubi chakra flow and thus stop KB4. The trick of course is getting close enough to do so. We saw two cases where Oro got close enough to pull this off. Of course the KB4, because of its speed, would likely get in an attack or two before the chakra flow was disrupted enough (also Jiraiya would be directly in front of KB4 Naruto after application of the seal) and this could be the reason behind Jiraiya's slash injuries (compare against the sequence with Oro's attack to KB4 Naruto during the 1st opening).


First paragraph - I must say, they admit to be a secret jutsu but they not explain what exactly the jutsu is. What i'm establishing as theories is what many people beleieve is the haraishin. All the jutsus in the narutoverse have being explained to a point that you can assume some things, but not this one. I've read a lot of theories and many people have accepted it, but it could not be what kishimoto has in mind for the 4th jutsu. Many people say..oh its a warp jutsu, no its summoning jutsu...

Edit: Can you post in what chapter this was discussed? Cuz if i'm wrong fine I will admit it. Like a couple posts back somebody made me take my foot out my mouth with the rasengan being invented by the 4th and not teached to him by jiraiya. So please...

No. This are only theories people have thrown and many have found plausible. The facts are still to be known.

Second paragraph - Couldn't agree more. Probably not on the Jiraiya stopping 4th tail naruto-kiuby. But again good insight!

Third Paragraph - The reason why Jiraiya is stronger than Oro still has to be explained. We know it as a fact but it still hasn't being showned.

angry
July 11, 2006, 01:53 PM
I predict Rocker2 isn't just any man... its a whole team of specialists that assemble and make up posts to squash everyone down =P

either that, or he's Kishi and is playing dumb =P

stard00
July 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
hmmm i think Jiraya (oviously) didsomething to stop naruto maybe t didnt stopp him at all but it served to return naruto to his normal self, either way i think the new jutsu will have to be something with yondaime, i mean no body in the village knowed better yondaime than kakashi, so he must know a couple of things like his jutsus,training methods and his name (some say its Arashi Usumaki but its only a speculation) so the jutsu naruto and kakashi will develop will have to be (in my opinion) created by someyondaime's training methods

DarkManSharingan32
July 11, 2006, 07:15 PM
First paragraph - I must say, they admit to be a secret jutsu but they not explain what exactly the jutsu is. What i'm establishing as theories is what many people beleieve is the haraishin. All the jutsus in the narutoverse have being explained to a point that you can assume some things, but not this one. I've read a lot of theories and many people have accepted it, but it could not be what kishimoto has in mind for the 4th jutsu. Many people say..oh its a warp jutsu, no its summoning jutsu...

Edit: Can you post in what chapter this was discussed? Cuz if i'm wrong fine I will admit it. Like a couple posts back somebody made me take my foot out my mouth with the rasengan being invented by the 4th and not teached to him by jiraiya. So please...

No. This are only theories people have thrown and many have found plausible. The facts are still to be known.

Second paragraph - Couldn't agree more. Probably not on the Jiraiya stopping 4th tail naruto-kiuby. But again good insight!

Third Paragraph - The reason why Jiraiya is stronger than Oro still has to be explained. We know it as a fact but it still hasn't being showned.


Umm, i dont have the link... but in the databookon this very website it explains Hiraishin...
It very simply states that Yondaime summons himself to special markers that he sets up according to his chakra signature.

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:14 PM
Well, let's put some thought into this. This will be a Jutsu that no other ninja could utilize, that only Naruto will be able to do. Most or all of the suggestions stated already can be one by other ninja. It certainly cannot be utilized by Kakashi, as he would have already utilized this method of training on himself, and as he said, no other ninja can do the method of training. Sakura, Sai, nobody else can do it.

Now, there must be something about Naruto that is unique to him, that NOBODY else has. There are smarter ninja, faster ninja, stronger ninja, and quite possibly ninja with a larger chakra capacity (Neji had said that the clone of Kasame had about the same amount of chakra as Naruto, or something of that sort, and that clone only had 30% of his chakra). What all other ninja don't have, is Kyuubi.

There has been a lot of focus on the bijuu in these past articles. Ms. UberKitty used her bijuu primarily as her strongest attack, but she wasn't in control. She basically blew everything up, she became huge. She had a lot of destructive power, but she went the way that naruto was going, and let her bijuu take complete control of her when she doubted herself, for the power.

In the past Sasuke/Sai arc, we saw Sasuke enter Naruto's mind. People didn't really look at this fact, more of what was said by Kyuubi - the mentioning of Uchiha Mandara. Is it not a coincidence that Kakashi's training proposal came RIGHT after that? I doubt it. We learned that Sharingan has the ability to, when advanced to a strong enough level, enter the mind of the opponent (through Genjutsu or if it actually happened, we don't know), and can also go to lengths as to actually calm down Kyuubi's chakra.

Recently, in the Sai/Sasuke arc, we saw Naruto flat out reject Kyuubi as he tried to gain total control of his body. Naruto does not want to blindly take the energy of Kyuubi, and lose control. He's afraid of hurting his friends. He already hurt Sakura earlier, if you remember, and he was pretty upset when he found out that he did it. He's afriad of losing control, however, if he could be in complete control of everything, that'd probably be a different story.

Now, my theory.
I believe that the training that Naruto will undergo will not be traditional in any way, shape or form, because traditional training methods won't work in this case. Sasuke has used drugs to advance his skills. Before that, during the chuunin exams, he was able to gain an increase in speed because of Sharingan. He needs to get a LOT stronger, REALLY REALLY fast, and the Jutsu MUST be immune to Sharingan.

The training that Naruto will go through will be mental - that is - it'll be going on in his mind. Kakashi will be with him because he will have entered his mind through Sharingan, guiding him. He will learn a jutsu that fuses - partially - his chakra with that of the Nine-Tailed Fox. But, not in the same fashion as before.

Remember, he needs to learn how to change the form of chakra. The Nine Tails' chakra, as described in a previous chapter, is red. Someone in this topic said that the Kyuubi's element, as researched, is of fire. So, he needs to learn a technique that, once the Kyuubi's chakra has invaded his system, it is changed from this fiery chakra that burns his skin, to the color and form of his own - blue. He also needs to be able to call upon this chakra at any given time, through the use of the Jutsu he is going to learn. The only time that Kyuubi's chakra comes out is when Naruto is emotionally distraught. Once that happens, Kyuubi takes advantage of the situation and permits his chakra into Naruto's system.

The Jutsu being learned, cannot be copied because only Naruto has Kyuubi. Once he learns how to control Kyuubi's chakra, his strength and speed increases sharply, thus, making him much stronger.

So, let's recap.
Method of Training: Kakashi will be inside his head, VIA Sharingan, teaching Naruto how to change the form of Kyuubi's chakra.
Jutsu being Created: Calling Upon and Changing of Kyuubi's chakra into his own

That is my theory. Of course, I'll probably be wrong, because you can't really predict what Kishi will do. You never know, though.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 09:19 PM
Well, let's put some thought into this. This will be a Jutsu that no other ninja could utilize, that only Naruto will be able to do. Most or all of the suggestions stated already can be one by other ninja. It certainly cannot be utilized by Kakashi, as he would have already utilized this method of training on himself, and as he said, no other ninja can do the method of training. Sakura, Sai, nobody else can do it.

Now, there must be something about Naruto that is unique to him, that NOBODY else has. There are smarter ninja, faster ninja, stronger ninja, and quite possibly ninja with a larger chakra capacity (Neji had said that the clone of Kasame had about the same amount of chakra as Naruto, or something of that sort, and that clone only had 30% of his chakra). What all other ninja don't have, is Kyuubi.

There has been a lot of focus on the bijuu in these past articles. Ms. UberKitty used her bijuu primarily as her strongest attack, but she wasn't in control. She basically blew everything up, she became huge. She had a lot of destructive power, but she went the way that naruto was going, and let her bijuu take complete control of her when she doubted herself, for the power.

In the past Sasuke/Sai arc, we saw Sasuke enter Naruto's mind. People didn't really look at this fact, more of what was said by Kyuubi - the mentioning of Uchiha Mandara. Is it not a coincidence that Kakashi's training proposal came RIGHT after that? I doubt it. We learned that Sharingan has the ability to, when advanced to a strong enough level, enter the mind of the opponent (through Genjutsu or if it actually happened, we don't know), and can also go to lengths as to actually calm down Kyuubi's chakra.

Recently, in the Sai/Sasuke arc, we saw Naruto flat out reject Kyuubi as he tried to gain total control of his body. Naruto does not want to blindly take the energy of Kyuubi, and lose control. He's afraid of hurting his friends. He already hurt Sakura earlier, if you remember, and he was pretty upset when he found out that he did it. He's afriad of losing control, however, if he could be in complete control of everything, that'd probably be a different story.

Now, my theory.
I believe that the training that Naruto will undergo will not be traditional in any way, shape or form, because traditional training methods won't work in this case. Sasuke has used drugs to advance his skills. Before that, during the chuunin exams, he was able to gain an increase in speed because of Sharingan. He needs to get a LOT stronger, REALLY REALLY fast, and the Jutsu MUST be immune to Sharingan.

The training that Naruto will go through will be mental - that is - it'll be going on in his mind. Kakashi will be with him because he will have entered his mind through Sharingan, guiding him. He will learn a jutsu that fuses - partially - his chakra with that of the Nine-Tailed Fox. But, not in the same fashion as before.

Remember, he needs to learn how to change the form of chakra. The Nine Tails' chakra, as described in a previous chapter, is red. Someone in this topic said that the Kyuubi's element, as researched, is of fire. So, he needs to learn a technique that, once the Kyuubi's chakra has invaded his system, it is changed from this fiery chakra that burns his skin, to the color and form of his own - blue. He also needs to be able to call upon this chakra at any given time, through the use of the Jutsu he is going to learn. The only time that Kyuubi's chakra comes out is when Naruto is emotionally distraught. Once that happens, Kyuubi takes advantage of the situation and permits his chakra into Naruto's system.

The Jutsu being learned, cannot be copied because only Naruto has Kyuubi. Once he learns how to control Kyuubi's chakra, his strength and speed increases sharply, thus, making him much stronger.

So, let's recap.
Method of Training: Kakashi will be inside his head, VIA Sharingan, teaching Naruto how to change the form of Kyuubi's chakra.
Jutsu being Created: Calling Upon and Changing of Kyuubi's chakra into his own

That is my theory. Of course, I'll probably be wrong, because you can't really predict what Kishi will do. You never know, though.
so what you are saying is, he's gonna tsukyomi naruto

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:23 PM
so what you are saying is, he's gonna tsukyomi naruto


No. Sasuke was able to get inside Naruto without Tsukuyomi. This makes it a lot safer for Kakashi as well.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 09:25 PM
No. Sasuke was able to get inside Naruto without Tsukuyomi. This makes it a lot safer for Kakashi as well.
that is a good point! that no one has thought of yet, there are so many threads about the damage tsukyomi would do to both parties

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:28 PM
Tsukuyomi wouldn't work anyway. He'd be putting Naruto in another world, but it wouldn't be in Naruto's mind, it'd be in Kakashi's. Whatever he does in Tsukuyomi, it doesn't carry over to the real world.

Also, Kakashi wouldn't risk his own life for training.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 09:29 PM
so what you are saying is, he's gonna tsukyomi naruto


LOL I just find hilarious how Fatalflaw's post was resumed in one sentence!!!!

LOL

Fatalflaw good insight by the way!

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:30 PM
LOL I just find hilarious how Fatalflaw was resumed in one sentence!!!!

LOL

Fatalflaw good insight by the way!


Read my response. Tsukuyomi won't be used at all.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 09:32 PM
it's not a risk to cast it 1 time a day, and he does know how strong akatsuki is and how strong naruto could be, so maybe he would?[br]Posted on: July 11, 2006, 09:30:55 PM_________________________________________________

LOL I just find hilarious how Fatalflaw's post was resumed in one sentence!!!!

LOL

Fatalflaw good insight by the way!
redirection. it helps progress, hopefully

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:33 PM
it's not a risk to cast it 1 time a day, and he does know how strong akatsuki is and how strong naruto could be, so maybe he would?


Doubtful. Tsukuyomi was a last resort for Kakashi. And yes, it's a risk. He said it himself, Mangekyo Sharingan wears away at eyesight, and unlike Itachi, he can't compete with this problem by staying in Sharingan form because he's not a true Uchiha.

Itachi competes with the downside by staying in Sharingan form, giving him extra perception without the need to see completely what's in front of you.

Kakashi can't do that, he tires easily after using the Sharingan for too long.

yellowblue
July 11, 2006, 09:34 PM
Hmmm Kakashi will remove his sharingan eye and let Naruto borrow it for the duration of the training and let the old Tsunade repair it after. LOL.

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:35 PM
Just a quick redirect, since this is a new page.



Well, let's put some thought into this. This will be a Jutsu that no other ninja could utilize, that only Naruto will be able to do. Most or all of the suggestions stated already can be one by other ninja. It certainly cannot be utilized by Kakashi, as he would have already utilized this method of training on himself, and as he said, no other ninja can do the method of training. Sakura, Sai, nobody else can do it.

Now, there must be something about Naruto that is unique to him, that NOBODY else has. There are smarter ninja, faster ninja, stronger ninja, and quite possibly ninja with a larger chakra capacity (Neji had said that the clone of Kasame had about the same amount of chakra as Naruto, or something of that sort, and that clone only had 30% of his chakra). What all other ninja don't have, is Kyuubi.

There has been a lot of focus on the bijuu in these past articles. Ms. UberKitty used her bijuu primarily as her strongest attack, but she wasn't in control. She basically blew everything up, she became huge. She had a lot of destructive power, but she went the way that naruto was going, and let her bijuu take complete control of her when she doubted herself, for the power.

In the past Sasuke/Sai arc, we saw Sasuke enter Naruto's mind. People didn't really look at this fact, more of what was said by Kyuubi - the mentioning of Uchiha Mandara. Is it not a coincidence that Kakashi's training proposal came RIGHT after that? I doubt it. We learned that Sharingan has the ability to, when advanced to a strong enough level, enter the mind of the opponent (through Genjutsu or if it actually happened, we don't know), and can also go to lengths as to actually calm down Kyuubi's chakra.

Recently, in the Sai/Sasuke arc, we saw Naruto flat out reject Kyuubi as he tried to gain total control of his body. Naruto does not want to blindly take the energy of Kyuubi, and lose control. He's afraid of hurting his friends. He already hurt Sakura earlier, if you remember, and he was pretty upset when he found out that he did it. He's afriad of losing control, however, if he could be in complete control of everything, that'd probably be a different story.

Now, my theory.
I believe that the training that Naruto will undergo will not be traditional in any way, shape or form, because traditional training methods won't work in this case. Sasuke has used drugs to advance his skills. Before that, during the chuunin exams, he was able to gain an increase in speed because of Sharingan. He needs to get a LOT stronger, REALLY REALLY fast, and the Jutsu MUST be immune to Sharingan.

The training that Naruto will go through will be mental - that is - it'll be going on in his mind. Kakashi will be with him because he will have entered his mind through Sharingan, guiding him. He will learn a jutsu that fuses - partially - his chakra with that of the Nine-Tailed Fox. But, not in the same fashion as before.

Remember, he needs to learn how to change the form of chakra. The Nine Tails' chakra, as described in a previous chapter, is red. Someone in this topic said that the Kyuubi's element, as researched, is of fire. So, he needs to learn a technique that, once the Kyuubi's chakra has invaded his system, it is changed from this fiery chakra that burns his skin, to the color and form of his own - blue. He also needs to be able to call upon this chakra at any given time, through the use of the Jutsu he is going to learn. The only time that Kyuubi's chakra comes out is when Naruto is emotionally distraught. Once that happens, Kyuubi takes advantage of the situation and permits his chakra into Naruto's system.

The Jutsu being learned, cannot be copied because only Naruto has Kyuubi. Once he learns how to control Kyuubi's chakra, his strength and speed increases sharply, thus, making him much stronger.

So, let's recap.
Method of Training: Kakashi will be inside his head, VIA Sharingan, teaching Naruto how to change the form of Kyuubi's chakra.
Jutsu being Created: Calling Upon and Changing of Kyuubi's chakra into his own

That is my theory. Of course, I'll probably be wrong, because you can't really predict what Kishi will do. You never know, though.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 09:37 PM
Read my response. Tsukuyomi won't be used at all.


Dude Tsukuyomi would the most effective way. Cuz the experience would be permanant. And if kakashi doesn't use it to its limit he would be fine.


Doubtful. Tsukuyomi was a last resort for Kakashi. And yes, it's a risk. He said it himself, Mangekyo Sharingan wears away at eyesight, and unlike Itachi, he can't compete with this problem by staying in Sharingan form because he's not a true Uchiha.

Itachi competes with the downside by staying in Sharingan form, giving him extra perception without the need to see completely what's in front of you.

Kakashi can't do that, he tires easily after using the Sharingan for too long.


The toll that the mangekyo sharingan has on the user is still not explained.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 09:38 PM
Well, let's put some thought into this. This will be a Jutsu that no other ninja could utilize, that only Naruto will be able to do. Most or all of the suggestions stated already can be one by other ninja. It certainly cannot be utilized by Kakashi, as he would have already utilized this method of training on himself, and as he said, no other ninja can do the method of training. Sakura, Sai, nobody else can do it.

Now, there must be something about Naruto that is unique to him, that NOBODY else has. There are smarter ninja, faster ninja, stronger ninja, and quite possibly ninja with a larger chakra capacity (Neji had said that the clone of Kasame had about the same amount of chakra as Naruto, or something of that sort, and that clone only had 30% of his chakra). What all other ninja don't have, is Kyuubi.

There has been a lot of focus on the bijuu in these past articles. Ms. UberKitty used her bijuu primarily as her strongest attack, but she wasn't in control. She basically blew everything up, she became huge. She had a lot of destructive power, but she went the way that naruto was going, and let her bijuu take complete control of her when she doubted herself, for the power.

In the past Sasuke/Sai arc, we saw Sasuke enter Naruto's mind. People didn't really look at this fact, more of what was said by Kyuubi - the mentioning of Uchiha Mandara. Is it not a coincidence that Kakashi's training proposal came RIGHT after that? I doubt it. We learned that Sharingan has the ability to, when advanced to a strong enough level, enter the mind of the opponent (through Genjutsu or if it actually happened, we don't know), and can also go to lengths as to actually calm down Kyuubi's chakra.

Recently, in the Sai/Sasuke arc, we saw Naruto flat out reject Kyuubi as he tried to gain total control of his body. Naruto does not want to blindly take the energy of Kyuubi, and lose control. He's afraid of hurting his friends. He already hurt Sakura earlier, if you remember, and he was pretty upset when he found out that he did it. He's afriad of losing control, however, if he could be in complete control of everything, that'd probably be a different story.

Now, my theory.
I believe that the training that Naruto will undergo will not be traditional in any way, shape or form, because traditional training methods won't work in this case. Sasuke has used drugs to advance his skills. Before that, during the chuunin exams, he was able to gain an increase in speed because of Sharingan. He needs to get a LOT stronger, REALLY REALLY fast, and the Jutsu MUST be immune to Sharingan.

The training that Naruto will go through will be mental - that is - it'll be going on in his mind. Kakashi will be with him because he will have entered his mind through Sharingan, guiding him. He will learn a jutsu that fuses - partially - his chakra with that of the Nine-Tailed Fox. But, not in the same fashion as before.

Remember, he needs to learn how to change the form of chakra. The Nine Tails' chakra, as described in a previous chapter, is red. Someone in this topic said that the Kyuubi's element, as researched, is of fire. So, he needs to learn a technique that, once the Kyuubi's chakra has invaded his system, it is changed from this fiery chakra that burns his skin, to the color and form of his own - blue. He also needs to be able to call upon this chakra at any given time, through the use of the Jutsu he is going to learn. The only time that Kyuubi's chakra comes out is when Naruto is emotionally distraught. Once that happens, Kyuubi takes advantage of the situation and permits his chakra into Naruto's system.

The Jutsu being learned, cannot be copied because only Naruto has Kyuubi. Once he learns how to control Kyuubi's chakra, his strength and speed increases sharply, thus, making him much stronger.

So, let's recap.
Method of Training: Kakashi will be inside his head, VIA Sharingan, teaching Naruto how to change the form of Kyuubi's chakra.
Jutsu being Created: Calling Upon and Changing of Kyuubi's chakra into his own

That is my theory. Of course, I'll probably be wrong, because you can't really predict what Kishi will do. You never know, though.
you are right i think when it comes to him having to synchronize, his power more efficiently. once he does he should be the downside of scary

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 09:41 PM
Dude Tsukuyomi would the most effective way. Cuz the experience would be permanant. And if kakashi doesn't use it to its limit he would be fine.


It's way too risky. ANY usage of the Mangekyo Sharingan impares his sight. And no, the experience wouldn't be permanent, he'd just remember it. Kakashi didn't REALLY get stabbed, it was in his mind.

laughing@you
July 11, 2006, 09:47 PM
It's way too risky. ANY usage of the Mangekyo Sharingan impares his sight. And no, the experience wouldn't be permanent, he'd just remember it. Kakashi didn't REALLY get stabbed, it was in his mind.


But the experience stuck and thats whats really needed.

If what Kakashi experience didn't stick or had no effect...then whats the point. The Itachi's jutsu wouldn't work, it would be pointless and kakashi would be fine afterwards. But thats not the case. If the point is to train his mind and develop a new jutsu, if the mind knows what to do the body will follow thru.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 09:51 PM
It's way too risky. ANY usage of the Mangekyo Sharingan impares his sight. And no, the experience wouldn't be permanent, he'd just remember it. Kakashi didn't REALLY get stabbed, it was in his mind.
there is no proof of that people just assumed. i will post the reason people think the eyesight degrades
he was being sarcastic, right? well some took it as gospel truth. sharingan users do not go blind.

i think i take that back, it is hard to tell. but then it could mean the chakra expenditure since he was talking about him getting winded he said that it was bad for you, not it is bad for your eyes.

but that question kakashi posed to itachi. was kakashi basically saying what are you thinking? i have a sharingan baka.

FatalFlaw
July 11, 2006, 10:47 PM
there is no proof of that people just assumed. i will post the reason people think the eyesight degrades
he was being sarcastic, right? well some took it as gospel truth. sharingan users do not go blind.

i think i take that back, it is hard to tell. but then it could mean the chakra expenditure since he was talking about him getting winded he said that it was bad for you, not it is bad for your eyes.

but that question kakashi posed to itachi. was kakashi basically saying what are you thinking? i have a sharingan baka.


Sarcasm? Kakashi plainly said to Itachi "using it too much makes you go blind, doesn't it?". I didn't sense any sarcasm when I read it. It makes sense too. Although it takes a lot out of his chakra, obviously, there must be a downside to it, or else he would use it on everybody that stands in his way.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:02 PM
Sarcasm? Kakashi plainly said to Itachi "using it too much makes you go blind, doesn't it?". I didn't sense any sarcasm when I read it. It makes sense too. Although it takes a lot out of his chakra, obviously, there must be a downside to it, or else he would use it on everybody that stands in his way.
those words you spoke are stitched from 2 different pages. but what happened recently with kakashi should pretty much end what the downside is, it puts you in the hospital for weeks. with risk of death, from chakra loss

he said to itachi; how bad has your eyesight gotten, then showed his sharingan= hey dumb ass yeah that was a good description, i have a sharingan, baka

Gold Knight
July 11, 2006, 11:03 PM
Yeah, I do think Itachi's eyesight is deteriorating with each use of the Mangekyou Sharingan. And that is why I believe Itachi was so frustrated with being a member of the Uchiha clan. Sure, he's got powerful abilities, but there's so many negative side-effects of trying to increase his Sharingan, and he doesn't like these limits. That's why I believe he annihilated the clan and left to try to find a different destiny for himself - and that's probably why he joined the Akatsuki, because he wants to remove these limits using the bijuu. Guess we'll see.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:09 PM
Yeah, I do think Itachi's eyesight is deteriorating with each use of the Mangekyou Sharingan. And that is why I believe Itachi was so frustrated with being a member of the Uchiha clan. Sure, he's got powerful abilities, but there's so many negative side-effects of trying to increase his Sharingan, and he doesn't like these limits. That's why I believe he annihilated the clan and left to try to find a different destiny for himself - and that's probably why he joined the Akatsuki, because he wants to remove these limits using the bijuu. Guess we'll see.
he said how bad has your eyesight gotten? then showed his sharingan.

i know earlier he was talking about the downsides, but he also mentioned them,ie. being winded from ms usage. he said nothing about not being able to see after using it.

Gold Knight
July 11, 2006, 11:12 PM
Nevertheless, Itachi's shocked reaction to Kakashi's words confirmed the truth of his words, his eyes ARE suffering in some fashion.

gold lion
July 11, 2006, 11:33 PM
Nevertheless, Itachi's shocked reaction to Kakashi's words confirmed the truth of his words, his eyes ARE suffering in some fashion.
i think that has to do with kakashi showing him his sharingan. what if itachi figured out that second, what we learned during the gaara arc? that he in fact gave ms to kakashi? i mean he is a genius afterall

FatalFlaw
July 12, 2006, 12:11 AM
Itachi realized right there that he had Mangekyo Sharingan, well enough, however, in no way, shape or form did Itachi give it to him. Kakashi knows the downsides of the Mangekyo Sharingan because he has his own, has tested it, and has found that it deteriorates eyesight when you use it. There's no doubt. He was shocked because those words validated the fact that he had the Mangekyo Sharingan. So yes, at that second, he realized that Kakashi had obtained MS, but this is because Kakashi proved it by recapping to Itachi true facts about the downsides of the Mangekyo Sharingain.

glasskatana
July 12, 2006, 02:40 AM
ahem... back on-topic
There are some spoiler pics up right now. (for the first time in a long time :thumbs)
Here they are


Courtesy of Archer from the NF forums

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/XzNewtypEzX/2a5qi-2-f455.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/XzNewtypEzX/2a5qi-1-f455.jpg


Translators take your marks...GO.

I predict Kakashi's training method is surprising. :)

TheGreenFlash
July 12, 2006, 02:44 AM
ahem... back on-topic
There are some spoiler pics up right now. (for the first time in a long time :thumbs)
Here they are

Translators take your marks...GO.

I predict Kakashi's training method is surprising. :)


Nice finally we get some Naruto spoiler pics :D

...from the looks of it some one is going to help train naruto other then kakashi?

angry
July 12, 2006, 03:25 AM
OMG!!!!!! My first spoiler pics ever!!! I didn't know this exsisted =PPPPPPPPPPPPPP

I'm very excited ^^ (hopes translators read this thread)

glasskatana
July 12, 2006, 03:26 AM
OMG!!!!!! My first spoiler pics ever!!! I didn't know this exsisted =PPPPPPPPPPPPPP

I'm very excited ^^ (hopes translators read this thread)

yeah I got them from the spoiler section. Hopefully soon there will be some translators who are kind enough to...um... translate them. :p

Here's a link to the spoiler section in case you don't know how to get there.
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?board=25.0

citronvert
July 12, 2006, 04:49 AM
i predict it's asuma or shikamaru who train naruto :darn

glasskatana
July 12, 2006, 05:01 AM
i predict it's asuma or shikamaru who train naruto :darn

What about Gai? He seems like the person who could help the most in fighting against the sharingan. Plus Naruto could use some speed and structured Taijutsu. But then again, Kishi spent all this time with Asuma back-story. I can't wait.

laughing@you
July 12, 2006, 08:13 AM
yeah I got them from the spoiler section. Hopefully soon there will be some translators who are kind enough to...um... translate them. :p

Here's a link to the spoiler section in case you don't know how to get there.
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?board=25.0



OK....I've seing it!!

umm can anybody translate?

White Rabbit
July 12, 2006, 08:20 AM
According to NF-boards, Naruto is learning a wind-element-jutsu.
In the lower 3 panels you can see someone coming... it's Yamato who most likely will assist with the training by surpressing the kyuubis chakra.

briofreez
July 12, 2006, 08:24 AM
i think he'll have 2 instructors for this training. 1 to teach him a type of jutsu (wind, fire, etc), and the other is chakra alteration of nature and shape (kakashi). i think its not jiraiya, because jiraiya uses wooden sandals like samurai jack. those sandals looks like a jounin owner. who could it be? im excited. hope, there are translators around...[br]Posted on: July 12, 2006, 08:23:15 AM_________________________________________________if its yamato, then i think it ok. because this would mean naruto would not be relying on the kyuubi chakra for the ultimate jutsu. i prefer he gets stronger by his own blue chakra.

laughing@you
July 12, 2006, 08:40 AM
According to NF-boards, Naruto is learning a wind-element-jutsu.
In the lower 3 panels you can see someone coming... it's Yamato who most likely will assist with the training by surpressing the kyuubis chakra.


No please no supressing the kiuby chakra, let him use it.

I just hope naruto finds a way to keep extracting chakra from the kiuby, and never get tired!!!!

White Rabbit
July 12, 2006, 08:42 AM
if its yamato, then i think it ok. because this would mean naruto would not be relying on the kyuubi chakra for the ultimate jutsu. i prefer he gets stronger by his own blue chakra.


well, that's what the former arc was aiming at... so it would be very odd if kakashi would go: "okay, stick out your ultra-dangerous 4-tail-mode because for the new uber-jutsu you need tremendous amounts of chakra."

I'm very glad that Yamato will still be around. I like this dude and I'm very looking forward to see him working together with Kakashi.

briofreez
July 12, 2006, 08:43 AM
using the kyuubi chakra for the ultimate jutsu is not surprising. but think about it, maybe kishi is giving naruto 2 levels of his ultimate jutsu. 1 with his own chakra and the other one, supersized with the kyuubi chakra. (dbz style)

White Rabbit
July 12, 2006, 09:07 AM
but naruto harming sakura in his 4-tails-mode and yamatos "depend-on-your-own-power"-speech afterwards were rather obvious hints that naruto won't be relying on the kyuubi for this new jutsu.
I would be disappointed if this development would just be ignored.

laughing@you
July 12, 2006, 09:17 AM
but naruto harming sakura in his 4-tails-mode and yamatos "depend-on-your-own-power"-speech afterwards were rather obvious hints that naruto won't be relying on the kyuubi for this new jutsu.
I would be disappointed if this development would just be ignored.


Disapointing? ;)

It would be freaking awesome! :smile-big


I will grow strong and stand above anybody else by controlling the kiuby. His power is mine to use!

Which reminds me if Naruto is being healed like Wolvering in the x-men those this mean he will live longer than the rest?

angry
July 12, 2006, 09:20 AM
actually, when Naruto ages, the seal will slowly deteriorate and finally the Kyubi will break loose killing Naruto... or atleast i remember something of that kind being said somewhere in the manga ^^

(don't hold me to it)

laughing@you
July 12, 2006, 09:26 AM
actually, when Naruto ages, the seal will slowly deteriorate and finally the Kyubi will break loose killing Naruto... or atleast i remember something of that kind being said somewhere in the manga ^^

(don't hold me to it)


Don't worry I will disregard it completely then!!! :p

:noworry

Oh wait!! :blink That would mean he will need to pass on the kiuby!

He will need to learn a sealing jutsu to passing it on to.

Awesome!!

VeNoM87
July 12, 2006, 09:27 AM
actually, when Naruto ages, the seal will slowly deteriorate and finally the Kyubi will break loose killing Naruto... or atleast i remember something of that kind being said somewhere in the manga ^^

(don't hold me to it)


Aye that's where i also agree with, he can get other sealing thingy's though, but i doubt they'll as strong as the 4th (so the 4rths seal diminishes, so do the weaker seals). If they want to prevent this from happening, i guess Naruto will have to train a lot with the kyuubi's charka, so if he wants to pretect himself, and Konoha, he will need to work on training with the kyuubi's chakra, so he can one day he'll be able to supress the kyuubi's chakra so the seal ain't nescesary....

Think about that imo: Naruto containing the Kyuubi, but not having any seals on his body anymore, just restraining him through sheer strenght/determination but being able to use his power :)

laughing@you
July 12, 2006, 09:30 AM
Aye that's where i also agree with, he can get other sealing thingy's though, but i doubt they'll as strong as the 4th (so the 4rths seal diminishes, so do the weaker seals). If they want to prevent this from happening, i guess Naruto will have to train a lot with the kyuubi's charka, so if he wants to pretect himself, and Konoha, he will need to work on training with the kyuubi's chakra, so he can one day he'll be able to supress the kyuubi's chakra so the seal ain't nescesary....

Think about that imo: Naruto containing the Kyuubi, but not having any seals on his body anymore, just restraining him through sheer strenght/determination but being able to use his power :)


Hail god naruto!

VeNoM87
July 12, 2006, 09:32 AM
oi making my post rediculous now? :P
Imo it sounds not that godlike, since he allways had the kyuubi inside his body, and it could happen

gold lion
July 12, 2006, 09:34 AM
but naruto harming sakura in his 4-tails-mode and yamatos "depend-on-your-own-power"-speech afterwards were rather obvious hints that naruto won't be relying on the kyuubi for this new jutsu.
I would be disappointed if this development would just be ignored.
although i blame the rest of naruto's team for interfearing with that fight, and sakura for getting herself hurt by pulling that dumbass move of rushing at the kyuubi. i now have to submit to the fact that he will be using grenades instead of the nuke that is kyuubi. oh well, but i do expect yondaime like qualities, no, not yondaime jutsu, or trying to be yondaime, yondaime qualities. i still predict it will just raise his basic stats to akatsuki/ sanin level fron the databooks.

btw naruto is not stupid, when he was motivated he learned kagebunshin in a couple of hours, by himself! rasengan in 3 wks, drew out kyuubi chakra in 1 day( sure he was tossed over a cliff, but anyway.

maybe his teachers level aren't up to his need