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patedecarne
May 17, 2008, 08:06 PM
Hello, friends; And now, we finally reached chapter 400! Now I'm changing the title's name to analysis, I think it suits better, basically because I'm doing an analysis of all the chapter, and I liked it more than just review!


The scanlation used is from Binktopia


Naruto 400

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4001.jpg
Papa, why you? With so many Uchihas, why you?



Then we reached chapter 400, in a chapter with great revelations and explanations. Now is the time to know the truth about Itachi, and in the beginning, Tobi again explains about the coup d’etat and Itachi’s real job, a spy. The first great revelation here is that Sasuke’s father was the leader of the revolution, and so he sent Itachi as a spy. Seeing in his own son a prodigy, there’s no one better than Itachi to accomplish such task, but the problem is that Itachi, at the same time, was working with Konoha, so we have a typical strategy here: Two sides using the same person to its own benefits. I’ve said it so many times, but I’ll repeat again: Kishimoto studied the classic aspect of war and placed it in the story perfectly. The spies are one of the most important weapons when we talk about wars, and each side here has this same philosophy. I’m surprised to see that the Uchiha’s side also was using Itachi, and now, we can understand better the relation between Sasuke, Itachi and their father: Fugaku saying that Itachi was a genius and a true ninja example, but in truth, it was only superficial, because Itachi, in such position, couldn’t be the perfect son: His father would look to him just like a tool. And let’s not forget that Fugaku told to Sasuke not follow his brother’s path. From what I could understand, he didn’t wanted another son to be used as tool. And in the middle of this war between Konoha and Uchiha, there’s a one person who certain suffered more then anyone else: Itachi.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4002.jpg
At this point, killing myself is the best option...




Itachi working with the two sides ate the same time could be considered betrayal, just like Sasuke asked, but finally, the question that remains for almost 400 chapters is finally answered, and Kishimoto was brilliant to explain it to us: In real life, it’s said that only people who experienced war could tell exactly what is a true war, and Itachi, only with 4 years, witnessed a war. It’s too much for a little kid to bear. Then, fighting all the time to prevent war, and his own father was planning to begin a new one. I almost could understand Itachi’s feelings about it. To prevent a second war, he'll try anything and so, Konoha would be free from external control, which could be a terrible thing to such powerful village. Kishimoto just buit a great character, with the worst past ever possible. I’m liking so much of this chapter mainly about the psychological and emotional parts here, and basically the chapter was only about only this, so I’m really grateful for all we got. And the most important thing: Itachi was the perfect example of a ninja: strong, responsible, a tool, a person with a great sorrow in the heart and mainly the fact he was able to hide his feelings from everyone. Kill the entire clan, there’s no word to explain such act, but we cannot judge Itachi if what he’ve done, at his eyes, was right or wrong, but in ninja world, there’s no good or bad, only missions to be accomplished. He had strong convictions in his life, and to fulfill them, he would give his own life. His story was one of the saddest I ever readed, but one of the greatest: A perfect ninja, more than Naruto, Sasuke or anyone else. It’s a shame that he’s dead now, because would be interesting to see what Itachi would tell to Sasuke, now that he knows the truth.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4003.jpg
It's not The Bourne Ultimatum, is The Itachi Ultimatum




A curious thing that I noticed in this chapter was Tobi reactions while he was explaining Itachi’s life: We know that both of them were enemies, but now Tobi isn’t talking as if Itachi was his enemy. When he spoke about the war that Itachi experienced, the burden Itachi carried and even about no one being able to blame Itachi, I could see Tobi trying to show a good Itachi to Sasuke. This could be part of his plan to take Sasuke as a ally, because Sasuke, in his current state, isn't able to take correct decisions. One thing I still don't understand very well is about the circunstances that Itachi found Madara: Madara was supposed to be dead by now, and just accidentaly Itachi crossed paths with him? It's strange, if you ask me, that Itachi found Madara so easily. But another possibility is that Madara let himself be found by Itachi, but in this case, Tobi would say this instead saying he was found; this little detail should be better explained, because for now, seems to be so convenient this meeting. And with this meeting, we can see again how strong are his convictions: He would do anything in order to protect Konoha, even making a deal with someone like Madara. And about this deal, I see some contradictions with it: Madara said he has a grudge against Uchiha, but at the same time, the Uchihas were planning the coup d'etat, then they're following Madara's ideals. Here, I think Madara could be lying to Sasuke, why to kill the clan when they will do the same thing thing Madara once tried? We need a better explanation about it in the future. And his these panels, another thing that took my attention was the previous mask: again, we can only the hole for the right eye, and with this, I'm inclined to think that Madara has something else in the left eye. And continuining with the explanations, seems that Sasuke is faded to craziness when Tobi said that Itachi's only mistake was not be able to kill Sasuke!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4004.jpg
How lovely... And so sad...




Looking at Sasuke's reactions here, I could say he's a little relieved with the explanations: after all, the remembrances about Itachi being a good brother weren't just an illusion, and indeed, all that Itachi had done was to protect his brother: Knowing about Sarutobi's kindness, he asked him to protect Sasuke from the others, after all, even if one Uchiha is alive, someday this person could become a new threat, and I'm sure it was Danzou's thoughts. And again, Sarutobi was the perfect Hokage: not only he was taking care of Naruto, but Sasuke as well. But again, I'll point some interesting note about which could be the true goal of Madara: If Madara is really trying to bring Sasuke as a new ally, then there's no need to tell good things about Sandaime: He could just lie about Sandaime, saying he was one o the responsible for the massacre, but instead, he said that Sarutobi was trying to prevent the massacre and protecting Sasuke. This way, Sasuke can get the impression that still there's some good people on the village, and in a first moment he'll refuse Madara's offer about joining him, if that's Tobi's goal. We can conclude how Itachi loved his brother where he would be able to tell everything about his mission to world, but why he joined with Akatsuki is unclear to us. My guess is that in a cat-rat game, just like Itachi wold tell the truth about Konoha, Madara would tell the truth about Itachi, so, without any choice, Itachi joined with Akatsuki; But there's another thing: Tobi said that Itachi living as a criminal was planned, so in this case, could be that Konoha and Akatsuki had a deal. but this should be clarified when Tobi reveals his true intentions, and we're not so far from this.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4005.jpg
What if he isn't?




And finally, Tobi is finishing his explanations about Itachi. I can tell that, from all the burdens that Itachi carried, his brother's hate was the greatest of them: I'm sure this isn't the life that Itachi expected to Sasuke, but there's no other choice. In that fateful day, Itachi's like changed so much, and now that almost is explained, all the flashbacks chapters in the Naruto vs Sasuke's fight make more sense: When Itachi entered in ANBU, he changed his behavior, becoming a more cold blooded person. Since those chapters, I think Kishimoto had everything planned in his mind, and he was able to link all the events perfectly: almost the entire story of the Uchiha story was explained without any contradictions, with solid logic and context. I was afraid that Kishimoto could get confused at some point in the story, but he was perfect in this aspect. Even the Itachi vs Sasuke fight has more sense now: In the end, Itachi wanted to give a new power and also to be killed by Sasuke; maybe, with that, Itachi was trying to redeem himself from his life. But still, there's something left: Why was Itachi trying to prevent Madara and Sasuke's meeting: Even if Madara killed the Uchiha, he could murder Sasuke easily now. I'm sure we'll know this last secret in the next chapter, given Sasuke's reactions: almost the entire chapter, Sasuke hadn't any words, he must be so shocked that there isn't words to say; I'll tell something: Sasuke is in the edge of madness. And just like Itachi, I cannot remember such development going so far for a character, which is a great thing: Sasuke begun so arrogant in part 2, and look now: he's nothing. From this point, I could ever say that his death is a possibility, because with more things coming from Madara, there won't be turning back to such madness.




***Key Points***

Tobi's another mask
The plot's pieces are well placed
Sasuke is almost crazy literally



Summary

Another great chapter with explanations; Even if 4 chapters could be a waste, they're important to understand what really happened. I think this chapter settled all the Uchiha's story, and now we'll get development toward Tobi's intentions. Finally we found out who really was Itachi, and his love towards Sasuke ws really surprising, even if the entire series he didn't show it once. Even without action, the trauma and drama are things that I really like to see in any development, and I don't have any complains about how Kishimoto write it. Now, Sasuke's fate is what I'm really interesting, and I'm sure in the next week we'll know Kishimoto's plans; Then, friends, see you next week!

Karma
May 17, 2008, 09:46 PM
good review... Props..

nat
May 18, 2008, 12:05 AM
Very good review, the titles are just perfect.
I guess Madara began to respect Itachi's values when he asked him for that favor. It even helped him to get back at the clan, he must have been very happy.

CupofDice
May 18, 2008, 08:53 AM
Once again great review! I agree that Madara is hiding something. He doesn't seem to be the petty type (as opposed to Orochi), though I could be wrong since he did come back to Konoha to fight the First. About Sasuke I think he is more broken than crazed. Not much difference between the two, but a broken man may not look for revenge (at least not yet). People thought that it was Naruto going on a journey, but maybe it will be Sasuke. Then again if he does want revenge, he will be making the same mistake. So you could say that this is his last chance for redemption.

One last thing. I love how Kishi has developed Konoha. It started with hints of Sai's training, and it has been confirmed in these last few chapters. Konoha is no different than other shinobi villages. Danzo and Itachi's father are no different than someone like Gaara's father. Lets not forget that Gaara's father the Kazekage had good reasons for making his son a Jinchuuriki. The Sand country was trying to destroy them, therefore they need more power in each individual shinobi which caused Gaara to become a Jinchuruki. Well on Konoha's side we have Danzo who believes in peace and stability, and kills anyone who disagrees, and we have Fugaku whose clan is being discrimated against. Then we have Sarutobi who was too weak to stop the slaughter, and too weak to protect one of his shinobis from another village (Neji's father). So you have these warhawks who cause more destruction by their actions because of their wish for security and prosperity, and these peace freaks who cause destruction by standing on the sidelines. Hmm, nice comparision to our world.

patedecarne
May 19, 2008, 12:46 PM
@e-nat
Hehe, The last pic was the one I liked most: Our friend Sasuke is better be prepared for the worst, hehe; But yes, Madara could just respectet Itachi in the values aspect, but I don't think Itachi did the same thing to Madara; I think Itachi found out something else about Madara, and was something about Sasuke, so, at this point, probably they considered Madara an enemy;


@CupofDice

You brought a very good point in your post: Sasuke's redemption; Of course Kishimoto cannot just repeat the same thing over and over, that's why I told that Sasuke's fate will be decided in the next chapters: Should Sasuke choose the revenge path again, then this will be his last choice: definitely, won't be any more chances to Sasuke, and if he just wants revenge against Konoha, I cannot see Naruto trying to bring Sasuke again to the good guys's side; Konoha won't accept someone who could destroy it as an ally again, the things doesn't work that way;
And I also agree with your statement about Konoha: In the end, onlye the power is what matters, and the villages will do anything to protect its pride and power; just like the real world, huh? but a interesting detail about it is that Sarutobi, a Hokage, supposed to be the greatest authority, was unable to fulfill some of his objectives without the council's support; in the real life, it's said that even a president cannot take the most important decisions without external suppport; almost the same as narutoverse!

hitokugutsu
May 19, 2008, 01:40 PM
Nice analysis, you brought up some good points. The Itachi-Madara relationship is vague at this point. According to the timeline Itachi joined Akatsuki when he was 11 and he joined ANBU when he was 13. So I'm guessing Madara is twisting his "meeting" with Itachi deliberately

◆ T.D.A ◆
May 19, 2008, 05:41 PM
Just a suggestion not flaming, it would be good i think if you split the huge paragraphs into seperate paragraphs as well as it doesnt strain the eye.

Jenny_Bird
May 20, 2008, 03:20 AM
So sad and lovely indeed...

To me, Sasuke never really wanted to believe Itachi was a bad guy. He had good memories about
him, perhaps deep inside he would like to know his older brother didn't do all of that, at
least now he can understand why.

I never liked the excuse Itachi gave to kill his entire clan. To reach new heights?? Test
his mettle?? That's not a reason to kill everybody! I like much more Itachi now than before.

In this chapter, what was he feeling? He was told Sasuke was dead, but he denied here
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/05/


Great review pate! I like the way you can put everything together, can really organize the thoughts
in my head. :amuse

Sasuke is one of my favorites char, but I liked to see how he started Shippuuden full of attitude
and now he's completely lost. He's almost going insane! And I don't think is predictable
the path he's gonna take from now on. He might become an Aka, or who knows he will refuse it
(If Madara ever ask him to join)? He's a mysterious char in my opinion, we never know what
he's up to (I never thought he would release all orochimaru's prisoners), if he still feel
something about his old friends from Konoha (he tried to kill Naruto, but who knows if that
was his true intentions??)


And about Madara....yeah, he's not acting like the villain, but he's got something in mind!
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
Sasuke's eyes gonna surpass Itachi's?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/17/
Everything will be as it should...what's the way it should be, Tobi?

And how on earth does Madara have control upon Pain? :S
I thought Pain was the leader, the most powerful aka... now I have a knot in my head. :blink

anddre
May 20, 2008, 07:42 AM
Olá Patedecarne,

Your weekly review become a must topic for me to read and comment ;)

I read the other members comments and my two cents this week are:

1 - Sassuke lived his life by the revenge path. I expect that he would continue this journey till his death. In my head it won't make ay sense at all for a twist of attitude based on nothing to support it. He is a warrior and revenge is what gave him strengh to endure and overcome all the obstacles he has encountered.

2 - Although this is not the right place to discuss it, I think that the anime is complementing the manga information concerning the Konoha political strugle for power as we have a side line story about Hanzou being developed up there. I am waiting that the anime would also explain the elder`s couple and what they represent in Konoha`s political history.

3 - I remembered the VOTE fight between Sassuke & Naruto. Do you think that Itachi said the Sassuke need to kill his best friend to achieve a new power just to test if Sassuke would go all the way? Now we know that Itachi was able to do the same.

4 - I don't see Tobi worried about Akatsuki continuity as an organization right now since it has already granted Tobi's a way to reach his objectives without becoming the main target. It is time now to know what they, objetives, are all about. The main target place belongs to Pain as he kills Jyraya and is after Naruto. This will help Tobi to act free during those events and thicken his ultimate plot. I am also curious about Sassuke role in it, meaning why is Sassuke so important?

Regards,
André

patedecarne
May 20, 2008, 09:16 AM
@hitokugutsu
Yes, we all have this little discrepancy about the age; I don't think it's a plot hole, givent the fact Kishimoto is joining godly all the pieces os the storyline, so, specifically about this context, I think he's lying or hiding somehting from Sasuke, and this could be due the fact that, if Madara were to tell the truth about the meeting, its contents could be related to his plans toward Sasuke;


@T.D.A
Thanks for that, and I'm planning to include paragraphs in the next one; I was trying the word wrap, but it isn't so effective as new paragraphs, and the context can be well understood in this way.


@Jenny
Bom ver voce de novo!
But it's true: Itachi now is only great: Everything he've done, just to protect his little brother and the village, yes, Itachi is the perfect example of a ninja now; but one thing that I came to think last night was related to Abraham Lincoln's words: "Near all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"; I'm sure Itachi, like a Hokage, would do anything to prevent war: in such position, he would only use his political powers to help the entire village, he wouldn't never use powers to own gains, that I'm sure!

Haha, and even if Tobi is planning something to Sasuke, he still didn't gave any clue or hint about it, Kishimoto is hiding something bigger;
And yes, still I think Pain is the most powerful, sometime ago I made some theory about Pain's true power, you can see it here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=668336&postcount=23); but this weird relationship should be explained better in the future: probably Tobi was recruting powerful nins and he found out Pain: the deal could be something like Pain becoming the public leader while Madara would be in the shadows, because no one could notice his presence, probably the elders and Danzou; After all, his name wasn't in the book given to Naruto;


@anddre
It's good to hear that!, Please feel free to come anytime to discuss the future reviews, but then, let's go:

1-Indeed, there's the possibility to Sasuke become a good guy again and return to Konoha, but now, that I'm thinking better, I'll think this possibility is almost 0%; like you said, he's a warrior, and such words" who lives by sword, die by sword" suit perfectly well here; his hatred will be his nemesis; and let's not forget that Kishimoto once said that part 2 would be somehow dark, and with Jiraya, Asuma dead, Sasuke now could be in the self destruction path;

2-I think it could be expected, because we know the anime is being extended to not reach the manga; but unfortunately, if in some point of manga kishimoto will develop Danzou and the elders, I'm afraid the development we'll see in anime could be superficial;

3-what a good point! Well, when we think carefully about it, there's no need to tell Sasuke such statement: Itachi wouldn't gain anything with Naruto's death, then I'm thinking he said such words to Sasuke already expecting that Sasuke wouldn't kill Naruto, and I'm sure there's others way to achieve MS, and probably Itachi did everything just to break any bounds between Naruto and Sasuke, not because he wanted it, but to split them, protecting both Naruto and Sasuke from Akatsuki; together, they would be easy preys to Akatsuki;


4- Yes, in the first place, there's no need for akatsuki if Madara's only goal is Sasuke; At least to me, I don't see Akatsuki as an organization with only: "let's just take all the bijuus and jinchuurikis around"; I have the feeling that something else is behind its creation, and I think Madara won't ever wear another Akatsuki robe again, there's no reason to that: Pain is the one destined to take kyuubi, and probably will be the last to be defeated. I cannot say much more here, I'll breaking the laws of the forum, but we have interesting spoilers regarding this subject!

anddre
May 20, 2008, 11:00 AM
Olá patedecarne,


I cannot say much more here, I'll breaking the laws of the forum, but we have interesting spoilers regarding this subject!

I read it later and if they stand true then this would mean another Ninja War.

Concerning Item 2, if I recall it correctly, it is said on last week anime episode that the Elder Council gained prestige as Hanzou lost the dispute for the Hokage position. Does this means that during the period of the first and the second there was no Elder Council?

With Kind Regards,
André
[hr]
I just forgot to mention:

Sassuke can't follow Madara if he remembers the trap (amaterasu) that Itachi implanted in him.

xpertgamer101
May 20, 2008, 11:16 AM
I cant help but think that Tobi is Kakashi's "deceased" friend. Kakashi took his friend's left sharingan eye, which could explain why theres a hole in the mask for the right eye, but not the left eye. I forget the name at the moment, but it was one of the names written on the stone at the beginning of the manga. He was an Uchiha and he was on a Mission with Kakashi, had sustained serious injuries, and requested that his sharingan eye be transplanted to Kakashi. Whether its a baseless opinion or topic for serious discussion I'll leave the forum-goers to judge.

patedecarne
May 20, 2008, 03:34 PM
@anddre

that's my theory: When Hashirama and his brother became Hokage, no councils were needed, given the fact Hashirama was the only who founded Konoha, and being the absolute leader he was able to control Konoha perfectly, I think;

But when Sarutobi became the third, others people could think: he isn't from the same lineage as Hashirama, then a council could be created as a second voice in Konoha; So political, if you ask me, but still, all of the latest chapters are political, then there's a possibility!


@xpertgamer101
first welcome to MH and please enjoy it! Your opinion isn't baseless; after all, no one can judge an opinion as good or bad because they're opinions, and Tobi being Obito(that's the name) still could be a possibility, just look at everything that happened: Surprises can happen anytime from this point, and don't be afraid to post your opinions here!

ChuckinUpDueces
May 21, 2008, 02:00 AM
I really enjoyed the review. It is incredible how much knowing Itachi's true motives and intentions, moves the rest of the story along. While at the same time, bringing up new questions and providing different answers in the story of previous chapters.


I like how you pointed out Naruto as not being as great a ninja as Itachi. Especially since it seems so fitting that Naruto's previous boast of "being a better brother to Sasuke then Itachi ever was", now looks to be quite untrue. It also begs the question of what exactly Naruto was told by Itachi while under his Genjutsu.


The look on Sasuke's face at the end of this chapter as he ponders the reality of what he now knows, startlingly looks a lot like someone seeing things in a new light. The words of Kakashi seem to ring in his ears (from the last time we saw Sasuke tied up and forced to listen!!)

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000177/03.jpg
I'd say "empty" just about sums up this look here.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4005.jpg

"What if he isn't?" indeed. Poor Sasuke has went and done it all for nothing. The Power he's gained through evil means doing what he thought was good, in fact has turned around to bite him real hard. I'm sure Itachi did not want this. With this knowledge the idea of Justice to Sasuke has been shattered. He can look neither to his Family heritage of Policing the village for strength, since that was merely a farce. Nor can he look forward to resurrecting a clan that for all intents and purposes was bent on destroying the very Village it sought to police.


There has never been a clear choice for Sasuke. Given his tainted family history. For Naruto, not knowing that his father saved the village by sacrificing his life to imprison a demon within him has not stopped him from trying to carry on his legacy. This knowledge would likely just embolden him even more. For Sasuke, knowing that his father intended to destroy the Village, and that it was his brother's actions that stopped him, might cause him to take up his father's fight as a last resolve.. As Jiraiya said, "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." The real question now is, how will Sasuke choose to die? Following Tobi? Revenge on Konoha's top brass? Killing Naruto and foiling Akatsuki's plans? Or the unthinkable, a return to Konoha?

patedecarne
May 21, 2008, 09:37 PM
@ChuckinUpDueces
Yes, you brought good points here: in the pictures, we clearly saw a immature Sasuke, that wouldn't listen anyone, but now, with the last panel, seems the reality comes to his eyes;

Let's remember the first time we saw Sasuke in part 2: I haven't any more bound with Konoha, and if Orochimaru takes my body, so be it; everything for something that driven all of his life, the hatred, and Sasuke finally got his revenge, so he fulfilled his ultimate desire, right? No, because he discovered that Itachi, the most detestable person in his life, is a perfect brother, who loved him more than himself;

How can a normal person bear such thing? Impossible; even if Itachi's ultimate desire was be killed by Sasuke, Sasuke cannot forgive himself; Redemption; how? He cannot even say something to Itachi, because he was the responsible!

So, if Sasuke become an ally, then he'll destroy everything Itachi fought for until now, and it's really unpredictable by now...

Jenny_Bird
May 22, 2008, 02:31 AM
Yeah, if Sasuke becomes an Aka, then he'll be throwing away everything Itachi's done.
But, he still might think Konoha was responsible for his suffering and take revenge on Leaf...

I don't think TObi is Obito but who knows Madara is using Obito's body, or something like this? One thing that's strange is that Madara was wearing an one-eyed mask when he 'first' met Itachi in the flashback, but he had long hair back then... so the hair is not a clue in this case anymore i think :s

polyura
May 22, 2008, 08:37 PM
nice review, thanks, Pat