PDA

View Full Version : Chapter Bleach -99 Discussion



Koen
June 06, 2008, 07:49 AM
Well spleeyfans released chapter -99

onemanga (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/)

Check it out, discuss and predict right away!!!

patedecarne
June 06, 2008, 08:11 AM
Good chapter, but not so good like the last ones:
Too much from Aizen talking the same thing for about 13 pages, was a little redundanct at my POV;

the scenes with Shinji becoming a hollow were perfect, though, it give me creeps, his facial expression was priceless!

Urahara arriving at the end implies that a fight will begin for sure, unless something else comes to happen;

And I'm sure Urahara will try something to save Shinji and co.;

Andonan
June 06, 2008, 08:13 AM
Yeah good Chapter

Can't wait for Aizen Vs Urahara

purplerose_04
June 06, 2008, 08:23 AM
woohoo.. finally... okay.. now i'm more confused..
if Urahara know all this why can't he warned them? i mean he still keep in contact w/ them so why not?? ugh.. seriously 100 years? i mean if it was less it would have been okay but 100 years.. and they still didnt' do anything even when they know soo much about his betrayal and stuff..

Memory alter? or hypnosis..

drakend
June 06, 2008, 08:27 AM
Why do I get the feeling the fight will be one-sided and Aizen will own Urahara? Then Aizen will bring Urahara back to Gotei 13 showing off as the hero who saved SS from the doom and who stopped the production of masked soldiers. Urahara was exiled because he was held responsible for the Vaizards creation and the human gigai thing is just an official excuse. This way it would make sense that shinigami aren't aware, not the youngest captains and the lower officials at least, of the Vaizards' existence.

It's all nice and all but there is one problem: I'm tired of watching an unstoppable deus ex machina owning evreything in the universe. And we've seen him owning the world in shikai: what about bankai and the highly possible hybridization? :rolleyes:

sk.nite
June 06, 2008, 08:38 AM
This was an intersting line imo: "What is truly fearsome is the betrayal you don't see" What could that possibly mean?

Looks like the translation was done really fast so maybe it was a mistranslation.

EvolutionIX
June 06, 2008, 08:41 AM
Nope I see different. This is where Aizen and co. will leave, where other SS captains will arrive. Now what will they think? Tessai and Urahara (also in a black gown for no reason) are at the scene alone so obviously SS would think Urahara and Tessai did this. This is where they get exiled for testing on fellow shinigami. As for the vaizards, i have no idea.

EDIT: actually no. then they wouldnt be there now...

Silhouette
June 06, 2008, 08:49 AM
if Urahara know all this why can't he warned them? i mean he still keep in contact w/ them so why not?? ugh.. seriously 100 years? i mean if it was less it would have been okay but 100 years.. and they still didnt' do anything even when they know soo much about his betrayal and stuff..

Memory alter? or hypnosis..


I think Urahara did inform some in SS about Aizens's betrayal but even if some had their doubts, they still didn't have evidence against Aizen.

Shunsui and Ukitake suddenly chose to save Rukia and Kukaku was preparing for a fight. Me thinks, Yoruichi was able to finally convince them when she went to SS with Ichigo and things got really suspicious with Aizen's "death" and Rukia's execution being set earlier than its original date.

If that wasn't the case, then I am sure Kubo will cover this point. The arc isn't over yet and we don't know how Urahara's encounter with Aizen will end...we don't even know how Aizen covered up everything he's done.

poobert
June 06, 2008, 09:09 AM
Hi, First Post! WOOHOO!
Little prediction:

I think that Aizen will retreat before we get to see Urahara go bankai :( Urahara and Tessai will not be able to point him out as he was seen by that other captain so has a perfect alibi. Then perhaps for disobeying orders or framed for "murder" they will be thrown in to the maggots nest to be later rescued by Yoruichi and then run away. Aizen likely doesn't know that the Vizard are alive, or I am pretty sure he would have tried the hollowfication on himself.

I think the Vizards will suppress their hollows but not be able to control them until much later (probably will be skipped in the manga). Kind of like Ichigo after the SS arc.

zet
June 06, 2008, 09:12 AM
well that was a good chapter to get us pumped up even though it kind of rambled on a bit about the fact that aizen was the one that planed bla bla bla and then at the last minute comes kisuke to the rescue...looks like aizen is still in the testing fase has he didnt know that agravation/anger made the process faster, now what we are asking ourselfs is, how did he find out about it? the best guess would be, the same way he found out about the ouken etc...you know what, screw all that I just want to see urahara fight, upiiiiiiiiiiiii one more week to wait lololol kubo you like to play with our feelings...

KeRaD
June 06, 2008, 09:18 AM
Good chapter, but not so good like the last ones:
Too much from Aizen talking the same thing for about 13 pages, was a little redundanct at my POV;

the scenes with Shinji becoming a hollow were perfect, though, it give me creeps, his facial expression was priceless!

Urahara arriving at the end implies that a fight will begin for sure, unless something else comes to happen;

And I'm sure Urahara will try something to save Shinji and co.;

I'm sure Urahara is the reason all Vaizards are alive. he must have figured out how to deal with Aizen's research, since Kisuke is much more inteligent:D

drakend
June 06, 2008, 09:20 AM
Anyway how did the Vaizards get hybridized? I only see them having a mask all of a sudden and nothing more... I hope Aizen vs Urahara confrontation will give us some explanations because, as of now, we know nothing.
Ah BTW guys... is the true Aizen in SS, the one who dealt with Ichigo and friends, the true one? :D
I wouldn't be surprised if it was another fake: a fake of the fake sounds like a typical Aizen's plan.

eyesotope
June 06, 2008, 09:30 AM
Hi, First Post! WOOHOO!
Little prediction:

I think that Aizen will retreat before we get to see Urahara go bankai :( Urahara and Tessai will not be able to point him out as he was seen by that other captain so has a perfect alibi. Then perhaps for disobeying orders or framed for "murder" they will be thrown in to the maggots nest to be later rescued by Yoruichi and then run away. Aizen likely doesn't know that the Vizard are alive, or I am pretty sure he would have tried the hollowfication on himself.

I think the Vizards will suppress their hollows but not be able to control them until much later (probably will be skipped in the manga). Kind of like Ichigo after the SS arc.

welcome to MangaHelpers poobert! :)

very plausible theory you have there.. that maggots nest had to be shown for a good reason other than wasting a chapter to show us Mayuri at the end..

zet
June 06, 2008, 09:32 AM
Anyway how did the Vaizards get hybridized? I only see them having a mask all of a sudden and nothing more... I hope Aizen vs Urahara confrontation will give us some explanations because, as of now, we know nothing.
Ah BTW guys... is the true Aizen in SS, the one who dealt with Ichigo and friends, the true one? :D
I wouldn't be surprised if it was another fake: a fake of the fake sounds like a typical Aizen's plan.

that would be overkill...then again thats what aizen has been. just hope that kubo statrs giving us some answers aswell as some urahara fan service, about time.:amuse

anonym9191
June 06, 2008, 10:00 AM
Seems like there will be probably another one or maybe two flashback chapters now but most likely just one - that is what i guess.
I am really interested in the next one with Urahara appearing :)

Btw.: Was Ichigo's father in one of the flashback chapters until now? If not, I wonder, if we will get to see him in the future flashback chapter(s)...

trigonoah
June 06, 2008, 10:01 AM
Another great chapter. I agree with the fact that Kubo took the easy way out in having Aizen talk repetitively for 13 pages before anything REALLY good happened (him talking was aight though), but I'm still loving this chapter and arc. I can't wait to see what will happen next. I'm really hoping for a Aizen vs. Urahara fight, especially since Urahara has never seen Aizen's shikai before and therefore isn't under the influence of Absolute Hypnosis (yet). I have a feeling that something will happen and there won't be a real showdown, but nonetheless the next chapter will be fire (hot)!

I don't know how this will all turn out exactly to make sense with the overall Bleach storyline (ie Aizen staying in SS, Urahara and co. leaving SS) but one thing is bothering me: Thanks to the recent chapters we've been able to see the beginings of the hollowification process (though we're still not sure how it's done) and have been able to confirm Ichigo has gone through the same thing when he trained with Urahara. What I don't get though is WHY it happened to Ichigo. Does this imply that Urahara knows how to make vaizards?

Also, just wanted to note that if it weren't for Urahara and Tessai showing up when they did, Ichigo would have been the only vaizard in the series since Aizen woulda killed them all.

bladehappy
June 06, 2008, 10:01 AM
Aizen looks pretty surprised at Urahara's attack.

eyesotope
June 06, 2008, 10:10 AM
Btw.: Was Ichigo's father in one of the flashback chapters until now? If not, I wonder, if we will get to see him in the future flashback chapter(s)...

no, so far Ichigo's dad wasn't shown so far in those flashbacks, I wonder if he'll really turn out to be in the royal guard devision..

conn-man
June 06, 2008, 10:20 AM
i loved the panel with urahara leaping at aizen.

warps
June 06, 2008, 10:20 AM
(...)
I don't know how this will all turn out exactly to make sense with the overall Bleach storyline (ie Aizen staying in SS, Urahara and co. leaving SS) but one thing is bothering me: Thanks to the recent chapters we've been able to see the beginings of the hollowification process (though we're still not sure how it's done) and have been able to confirm Ichigo has gone through the same thing when he trained with Urahara. What I don't get though is WHY it happened to Ichigo. Does this imply that Urahara knows how to make vaizards? (...)
Urahara was the one to actually make Hōgyoku and both transformations (hollow -> arrancar and shinigami -> vaizard) shouldn't be very different. Ichigo's trasformation was probably boosted by one of Kisuke's inventions.

gold349
June 06, 2008, 10:34 AM
A medium chapter, Aizen blah blah blah.

When Kensai and Mashiro got attacked, their rietsu vanished of the radar and an emergency meeting was called and reinforcements were sent, here 8 high ranked shinigami must have had their rietsu disappear, I would expect a full response from SS and this might be when Aizen and co disappear and Urahara and Tessai get blamed.

eyesotope
June 06, 2008, 10:38 AM
but now it seems to me that there is no way that the vizards could be on Aizen's side which means that his espada will be buried sooner or later once the vizards join the shinigami vs arrancar battle

zet
June 06, 2008, 10:43 AM
I still see the diferences about how ichigo became a shinigami/hollow against the vizards, ichigo had a body and soul with the chain and what not, urahara had to break the chain in order for him to be a complete soul and he would die and become a hollow if he didnt reach the top of the chamber, still human though. since the shinigami (shinji etc) didnt have that predicament, it must of have to be a different method then ichigo, that would explain why they are diferent yet wield similar powers. hopefully the next chapters will shed some light on whats goin on.

eyesotope
June 06, 2008, 10:51 AM
perhaps Ichigo is the only "hybrid" that occurred naturally?? since all the others were transformed due to some contraption/device/maniacal plot..

trigonoah
June 06, 2008, 10:53 AM
Urahara was the one to actually make Hōgyoku and both transformations (hollow -> arrancar and shinigami -> vaizard) shouldn't be very different. Ichigo's trasformation was probably boosted by one of Kisuke's inventions.

true, but the Hougyoku was safely tucked away in Rukia when Ichigo was being trained and as far as we know the Hougyoku was the only thing Urahara has that can hollowfy (and shinigamify) something. So Kubo still has some explaining to do


A medium chapter, Aizen blah blah blah.

When Kensai and Mashiro got attacked, their rietsu vanished of the radar and an emergency meeting was called and reinforcements were sent, here 8 high ranked shinigami must have had their rietsu disappear, I would expect a full response from SS and this might be when Aizen and co disappear and Urahara and Tessai get blamed.

lol at your feelings on the chapter. definitely agree with you on the rest of the Gotei 13 showing up at the scene and Aizen escaping with his entourage. This makes even more sense since Aizen can use his Shikai to hide himself from the other captains and also Urahara will be found in his suspicious reiatsu-suppressing outfit. only question to answer about this is everyone else won't believe Urahara when he has Tessai to vouch for him.,..

godofthesunn
June 06, 2008, 10:59 AM
So who said that we end at 98 or 99.. At this rate I expect to get to around 94 before we finish or maybe whenever this is fully explained I dont see a clear end in sight.. As there is too much info to cover before this ends.

If hiyori regains consiconess then the rest will follow suit soon after I think..

My three questions are

How did they initiate the hollow process?

How will the vizard overcome their hollowification? With help or not?

The exile is obvious.. Aizen makes a story up and gives it too the yamato or uses his shikai to trick him.. well yeah there just doesnt seem to be another way for 7 or so captian to not be listened too.. their opinons should be valid and the fact that urahara desired to go there so badly.. its just peices tgether in my opinion that foul play must be involved otherwise they would have taken defeated Aizen earlier.

eyesotope
June 06, 2008, 11:07 AM
if they really blame this on Urahara and then 100 years later he agrees to help them?
I wouldn't agree to help unless they beg for forgiveness on their hands and knees..

yeah and screw the world if they don't apologize :D :p

Ravis
June 06, 2008, 11:22 AM
I think that Aizen will eventually make everyone "see" Urahara and Tessai doing it. The idea of having proof Aizen did it was brought up, but they never needed it before when putting everyone elts in prison. Urahara was even the warden of that prision ten years ago. The problem i have right now is that Aizen is only a vc and Urahara and Tessai are both captins, theres a very big credibility issue there.

anonym9191
June 06, 2008, 11:23 AM
I think there will only be explained further on how Aizen got away with this and the others ended up with being exiled and that should be possible in about two more chapters.
I guess the rest questions might get answered in the present then by going on with the story line there (or will be explained a bit later in another flasbhack arc).

vintagemistakes
June 06, 2008, 11:24 AM
I love how Urahara looks like Sherlock Holmes in this chapter.. all thats missing is his pipe...

hajialibaig
June 06, 2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah.. Aizen has many ways to put the blame on Urahara. For example, he can put everyone else in absolute hypnosis, and make them see Urahara killing everyone else.. or something to that effect....

But the real question is, if Urahara gets banished now, how will he get to make the Orb of Distortion, unless if has already made it..........

Or might be that Urahara will get banished at a later point in time, but that will result in the question of why didn't he do something about Aizen... ??

Well, atleast all of the above has to be cleared by the end of bleach.. so nothign to worry about :D

bladehappy
June 06, 2008, 11:31 AM
I like to think Kubo purposely made Urahara look like Sherlock Holmes.

gigantor21
June 06, 2008, 11:53 AM
^ Yeah, exactly. Just like he made Mayuri look like Satan, Aizen like Superman, Komamura like Lassie, and so on. He does it a lot. :p

Haji, I wouldn't count on that. I've read really big manga to completion, and a few leave tons of questions unanswered by the end. They can't all be like RuroKen.

hajialibaig
June 06, 2008, 11:57 AM
I've read really big manga to completion, and a few leave tons of questions unanswered by the end. They can't all be like RuroKen.

Woah.. Now that is something I didn't know.. well, let's hope Kubo does provide the answers then!

TheChosenOne
June 06, 2008, 12:10 PM
Just read the latest chapter, was good, kinda disappointed that we still haven't' gotten any info on how exactly they turned into vizards, hopefully next chapter. Urahara looking like Holmes was funny, as Tessai looks on as Watson. Hoping we see at least something to measure how close or far Urahara is to Aizen. :)

patedecarne
June 06, 2008, 12:14 PM
^ Yeah, exactly. Just like he made Mayuri look like Satan, Aizen like Superman, Komamura like Lassie, and so on. He does it a lot. :p

Haji, I wouldn't count on that. I've read really big manga to completion, and a few leave tons of questions unanswered by the end. They can't all be like RuroKen.


Hell yeah, gig, Koma == Lassie was only perfect, huhauhau
let's not forget our fox: gin

I think the unanswered questions, if they still exist by the end, could be just irrelevant questions, where their meaning wouldn't be crucial to the plot...
btw, some things must be explained, no matter what..

zet
June 06, 2008, 12:32 PM
I don't see SS sending out more captains to this unkown event that seems to wipe out many devisions captains aswell as vc's, my guess would be to send a ubber force that would scare the crap out of even aizen and the only one we know of is the Squad 0 (Royal Guard), that could tie up somethings but not explain everything, for example one of the guys that show up, would be Isshin, that would explain how Kisuke knows Isshin from. I think we still have like 3 or 5 chapters to go, since kubo dragged the last chapter a bit.

Hockeychaoz
June 06, 2008, 01:27 PM
It's always been speculated that Urahara's shikai was broken because of how the top looks. The fact that the tip of his blade was not shown in the second last page, I'm thinking that Urahara's blade is going to get damaged in this upcoming fight.

zet
June 06, 2008, 01:32 PM
rengi's shinkai got broken to bits and yet it went back to what it was...first time I eard that theory hmmm, wait n see I guess.

droolz
June 06, 2008, 01:35 PM
unfortunately, urahara's under hypnosis (he interacted with the fake aizen when he met hirako, talking abt the souls vanishing.. and during that conversation, shinji refered to the fake one as aizen, but urahara didn't see anything wrong...)

everyone's said it before, but i just have to say it again... Aizen's shikai is really cheap... =P

Cyanilurus
June 06, 2008, 01:48 PM
For the returning "is Isshin going to appear" question... Not unless he' ll be the judge of Urahara and the vaizards.
Though that would explain how he knows about them. :P

ShaunMati1
June 06, 2008, 01:58 PM
I was thinking...Aizen said that he used some random dude and used his shikai (i call it an illusion more then a hypnosis) to make it seem like that was him. The way u guys talk about aizen's shikai sounds like all he has to do is call it out and he can make everyone see 10,000 of him. Or fake tousen and gin. I dont think thats it, i think he can only force ppl to see a a fake him needing to use a real body. For example in SS when he "died" he must have killed a mere new recruit or someone that no one knows and used his body on that building. So i think aizen needs to use actual people/bodies to use his shikai properly

TheChosenOne
June 06, 2008, 02:17 PM
I dont think thats it, i think he can only force ppl to see a a fake him needing to use a real body. For example in SS when he "died" he must have killed a mere new recruit or someone that no one knows and used his body on that building. So i think aizen needs to use actual people/bodies to use his shikai properly

Well when talking to Unohana, Aizen was able to transform (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-171/page008.html) his sword into a dummy body. :)

meow79
June 06, 2008, 02:25 PM
i guess i can roughly picture wat gonna happen next

i think aizen will properly leave urahara & tensai with shijin they all attacking urahara and with urahara going bankai. Urahara and tensai will properly managed to subdue shijin or shijin they all being captains and high abilities are albe to with hold some sort of control like wat hiroyi is showing this is chapter thats is why all aizen wanted to kill them all b/c he cannot risk shijin regain control thus having no chance of running away

urahara will most likely bring shijin they all back to his lab or on site itself and do emergency operation on them. i most likey think this will be the part where urahara created or already created the testing hoyokuyo and use it on shijin they all to turn them back or put them in a sort of stasis(i would prefer stasis as it will explain the time taken for them to defeat their inner hollow to allow them to defeat their inner hollow) that would explain y aizen knows abt the hoyokuyo

once shijin they all are saved they tried to expose aizen and his crimes but aizen was already 1 step ahead of them and already have the entire remaining gotei 13 hynosised and they end up trying to kill shijin they all as they have become sort hollow-shimigami hybrids <-----this would explain y hitroyi is so upset abt the shimigami in SS(read the chapters that shijin grap her from orihime and poke her in her ah*hem part)

i think this is the part where urahara use the untraceable giga and thus allow shijin they all to escape into human world and this act alone cost urahara and tensai their position and exile into the human world but not b4ing taking and hiding the hoyokuyo from aizen

this is the part where i think isshin would come in, he from squad 0 and he ordered to take out shijin they all b4 they would becomes a threat and as for his story could be anything

as u guys remember where shijin vs grim where shjin just totally owned with just his hollow mask and a non released sword i guessing is b/c of isshin. i think shijin knows there a kill order on them but he do not know who was being sent thus he only used his hollow powers b/c do not want to use his shimigami powers as it will 100% be pick up by ss immediately

llamapie
June 06, 2008, 02:32 PM
Kubo is really smart. He is doing very well at getting us to hate Aizen, my curiosity is how does Aizen reveal all this and get away with it? As we know Urahara is banned from SS, but now we know Aizen definately broke some major rules. What we'll see is how Aizen managed to put the blame on Urahara.

Zangetsugetsyou
June 06, 2008, 03:24 PM
This is my thoughts from the Spoiler thread (with no spoilers) and my predictions of what will take place in the future.

I think it would be an interesting twist if the negative to Aizen's shikai is that it's effects are broken once he initiates his Bankai.

That may explain why he has never utilized his Bankai up until this point in the storyline. His downfall may come when someone forces him to use his Bankai against him, then allowing all his hypnotized victims to be free from their hypnosis (i.e. the arrancar, espada and general weak hollows.

Maybe those who are under the impression that Urahara defeats Aizen to some capacity in this current situation are on to something. He may have enough strength, skill and wit to surpass Aizens shikai ability and Aizen, unwilling to use his Bankai and break hypnotism on all those he has under his thumb, must flee in order to keep his plan going. At this point, he can still accuse Urahara and Tessai of the crime, convince those he has hypnotized that it is true if need be, and continue to exist in Soul Society. The reason that he stays in Soul Society for so long is because if he goes to the real world, Urahara is able to find him and being stronger and able to combat his shikai at this point, ruin his hypnosis.

So Aizen stays in Soul Society to solidify his plans where he is safe, and then when he needs to be in HM full time to finish his search, he leaves Soul Society feeling confident that Urahara would be no threat now and he would be safe in HM as he has become much stronger and confident in his safety and plan.
But little does he know Urahara is continuing to work, possibly training Ichigo's friends in a method where they will be able to subvert and avoid Aizen's shikai. Urahara has a plan, and Aizen will see his confidence crash down around him in the most ironic way possible.

In light of the past incidents, I found these two pages of the manga to be extremely interesting. These are the pages where Urahara says that his Bankai cannot train or lend power to other people.... so what does it do? Another anomaly super power technique?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/224/15/
Renji seems to realize something from that statement from Urahara. I don't know what, but he realizes something, you can tell by his all of a sudden calm and shocked reaction, almost scared. It is interesting.

It is alway interesting to think that Renji right now might know what is going on, might know some things the others do not know. I am sure he has some pretty good questions for Urahara, and after that point probably wanted to know what his Bankai is for. So we know the 3 months is up, what did Urahara tell Renji, and why hasn't Renji told anyone else?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/224/16/
Renji seems deeply curious in this panel, and Urahara seems like he is anxious to tell someone the answers to the right questions. I would like to know what went on here, and if we will see these answers in the next chapter.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/224/17/
And of course there is the Chat has ________ powers. Which makes me think this has something to do with what Urahara is doing in the past, and what he plans to do in the future.


I think it is also very apparent that this past chapter is there to show us that Urahara and the rest fell right into the trap, but atleast Urahara will not fall into Aizens trap again. He may make it seem like he has played right into the game, but in fact he is playing his own games in the situation as well.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/226/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/226/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/226/05/

Here he uses negative motivation to make her resolve to be stonger, and also admits that he will have her removed from the war front. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/227/12/ How? the recent past events of her getting taken to HM.
Urahara knows that this will take her out of it, cause her to do what he wants her to do in HM and also cause Ichigo to heighten his resolve tremendously at the absence of Orihime and his promises to protect her next time no matter the cost. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/227/15/
Urahara is taking one out of Hannibal's book (From the 80's hit show The A-Team) "I love it when a plan comes together..." This is his planning face http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/227/17/
Direct Contrast shows which two parties are involved in this plan, the creator Urahara and the one playing into it Aizen
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/227/19/
This is also part of the plan:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/228/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/228/17/
Urahara knew Aizen was already planning it http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/229/17/meaning Orihimes kidnapping.

Again, one step ahead of the game
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/239/15/

Playing into the plot, and also revealing that "such violations are the reasons why I now reside 'here'." it is important to note the quotation marks on the word here in this situation, and also, is he saying that such violations as going to HM are why he resides "here" now?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/239/16/
again, planned http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/240/06/
They knew they were going to go as well, and another good question, why is Isshin in his uniform? Was he going somewhere, or coming from somewhere?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/241/12/

These chapters now shed a lot of light on the chapters that I mentioned here, in light of Urahara planning ahead of the game this time.

I also think that Unahona will be involved with Aizens downfall as stated in this post I made earlier:

I was just re-reading through some of the chapters thinking about when Aizen explained his shikai to Unahona and her subordinate.

He states that they will never see one another again. Does that mean that he will use his shikai in the future in a way that will make it impossible for her to see him if she is in the same area, or meaning that they will never again physically cross paths.

I am not sure what it could mean, and why he would say that, especially since now she is in HM where he was, and most likely going to be where he is once they find a way out of HM. Is there a flaw in his plan that she is near again, is she a danger to him thus why he wishes to stay away from her, and never see her again? I don't know what to think.

Also, those of you who were thinking that Urahara's shikai or Bankai my be able to cancel out the abilities of others shikai/bankai, here is some possible proof that may lead to that assertion: This is when Urahara blocks the cero from Yami
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/194/12/
When he negates the Barra from Yami (later when he returns with Grimmjow the second time)
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/235/08/

This is interesting though. This is describing to us Urahara and Yoruichi's power. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/194/12/
"They are far beyond your level, if we stay here we will lose" So even Ulquirra would not be able to handle them if Yami got killed, which he would have. This is nice to see.

Also, who is Ulquirra speaking about when he says this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/191/10/
All they need is one, and that is Ichigo. Alright, makes sense then he says:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/191/11/
There are only three others in this world with dangerous spirit levels. he is not talking about Orihime, Chad and Ururu that is for sure as we see here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/191/16/
So who are these three people. It would be common sense to say that Urahara and Yoruichi are two of them, as Ulquirra knew his name. This also lends to my other theory that Aizen is was attempting to stay away from Urahara because he was in the real world, so Aizen had to stay in SS until he could go to HM permenantly. So Yoruichi and Urahara are 2 of the other dangerous people, but who is the third? Is Ulquirra speaking of Isshin or Ishida's Father, or Tessai? I would imagine that he is speaking of Urahara, Yoruichi and Tessai at this point, from what we have seen in the gaiden.

So it seems that Aizen is not aware of Isshin and Ishida's Father having their powers back at such a high level yet. He will have a surprise when he finds them. It would also lend to the fact that either Aizen does not know that the Viazard are in the real world, or if he is aware of them, this statement means that the viazard dwell somewhere else other than the real world. This makes for a lot of speculation and anticipation for future explanation.

And what is up with this moon shape on Aizens zanpaktou ? http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/007/
Is this really there on his sword or is it simply a reflection of the moon? If it is on his sword, that may give indications for later about breaking his hypnosis as well, as you remember Ichigo's sword is something about "slicing the moon" which if this moon is an indication of Aizens Zanpaktou (the one on his sword being a symbol rather than a reflection) then Kubo may be showing us that it will be some ability of Ichigo's sword that will "slice the moon" or break the hypnosis of Aizens Zanpaktou.

it is also great to see that Aizen could not sense Urahara until the last moment right before getting almost cut by his zanpaktou http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/021/

kkck
June 06, 2008, 03:31 PM
I remember all those chapters ago Aizen said the only way for him to increase his powers is to acquire hollow powers. What I find really strange about this claim is the he hasn't got hollow powers considering that aparently he is the one that came up with he shinigami/hollow conversion.

Could he be scare of his own procedure? Is he too arrogant to consider he needs more power? Has he got another way to increase his powers? Maybe getting hollow powers isnt something he can hide in soul society and that is the reason he didnt get hollow powers before, but what is holding him back know?

Personaly I think he is scared of his own procedure, but even this is weird considering that noone has ever been defeated by their inner hollows and lost their bodies.

Zangetsugetsyou
June 06, 2008, 04:22 PM
We do not know if anyone has lost their body, or lost their battle to their hollow side. None of the current Viazard have lost their battle, but that does not mean that others have not tried and lost. It would seem that the lower class shinagami that were testes lost their battle and lost their body as well. Aizen, if he is the one experimenting surely saw this and knows this.

I would also suggest that Aizen is not aware that the Viazard overcame their hollow on the inside, and may presume that they lost their battle. This may be why he does not try it, because he presumes that they lost to their hollows.

Now when Aizen sees that the Viazard are not dead, have not turned to complete hollows, and survived the ordeal, he may be more willing to use that method if it is the only way. However if you remember Ichigo's hollow, it has the same abilities as Ichigo in the inner world. Thus Aizens hollow would have the same power of complete hypnosis as Aizen does with his shikai and the same power of whatever Aizen's Bankai is. That might keep one from venturing there.

Travis
June 06, 2008, 05:12 PM
I hope they explain all of this. I'd like to know why this way is so different from Ichigo's way, and it seems like it's more immediate with the transformation than Ichigo's was. I mean atleast Ichigo regained control of himself within a few seconds the first time around with Byakuya.

I also don't think this is their inner battle fights. I think it's just the part where their hollow temporarily takes over their bodies until they regain control.

mars0103
June 06, 2008, 05:15 PM
I hope they explain all of this. I'd like to know why this way is so different from Ichigo's way, and it seems like it's more immediate with the transformation than Ichigo's was. I mean atleast Ichigo regained control of himself within a few seconds the first time around with Byakuya.

I also don't think this is their inner battle fights. I think it's just the part where their hollow temporarily takes over their bodies until they regain control.

Thats a different matter because ichigo had to become a shingami the hollowafation was a side effect. This was different they where already shingami's.

I would like to see where isshin comes into plan.

zet
June 06, 2008, 05:47 PM
Irahara is still a big ? mark in the story, such as Isshin and Ryuken. But we still have so much story go to, at least it feels like it. there could be someone commanding aizen for example, remenber that big eye when the menos used "negacion" to retreive aizen and co. there still alot that we dont know, and looking how things get told by kubo, we are in for a long ride lolol

ShaunMati1
June 06, 2008, 05:58 PM
heres what i think about ichigos hollow process and these vaizards. No one has said or declared that the hollow side is strong then the shinigami side. That can tell us something. It can tell us that these vaizards, assuming that they are 100% pure blood shinigami, wouldnt that just mean that the hollow inside them isnt strong enough to take over therefore just becoming apart of them. As for ichigo, after he got sliced by byakuya and urahara found him he was "neutral" if u may. He could have been a hollow or get back his shinigami powers. While trying to obtain his shinigami powers he was about to be a hollow and im guessing that both sides are equal in power. For example http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/18/ "he and i are one of the same" imo im thinking that means he and i are equal. So with that im sayen that ichigo has a more natural process seeing that he got both powers from a beginning stage. Being a shinigami without knowing his shikai or bankai. Being a hollow without being able to call it or even be conscious when his hollow came out. IMO the natural process ichigo had is much more unique thus making him stronger or atleast much different, the shocked reaction of the vaizards during ichigos suppression says it all.

lordHokage
June 06, 2008, 06:20 PM
Prediction: Urahara save the Vizards and easily defeat Aizen's strongest attack. :D

C4animax
June 06, 2008, 06:23 PM
I think the chapter was repetitive and somehow it's annoying that aizen tells us again about his zampaktou abilitie...

I quite enjoyed the picture of urahara attacking like the newest arrancar we saw recently (the dumb one that likes tousen) and i wonder how aizen could notice him since he's wearing the cap...(maybe tessai ?)

Since none of them are actually transformed i espect tessai to do some great stuff here...what could possibly happens now, if there's a fight, there must be some people killed, (which is unlikly since they are all alive at present time) if they are joined by back up, aizen is done for good (which is also unlikly because he becomes a captain in the future)...

Maybe tousen uses his bankai, flee with the others and then urahara clearly has no chance to express himself...

someguy0830
June 06, 2008, 06:53 PM
I suspect that they'll be interrupted by reinforcements before anything happens. The vizard will probably escape and Urahara will let himself be captured to buy them time. Don't know how they'll talk their way out of the situation, though. That'll be the big question.

Devil-buster
June 06, 2008, 06:58 PM
I remember all those chapters ago Aizen said the only way for him to increase his powers is to acquire hollow powers. What I find really strange about this claim is the he hasn't got hollow powers considering that aparently he is the one that came up with he shinigami/hollow conversion.

Could he be scare of his own procedure? Is he too arrogant to consider he needs more power? Has he got another way to increase his powers? Maybe getting hollow powers isnt something he can hide in soul society and that is the reason he didnt get hollow powers before, but what is holding him back know?

Personaly I think he is scared of his own procedure, but even this is weird considering that noone has ever been defeated by their inner hollows and lost their bodies.

I am just speculating here but....from what we have seen from ichigo's inner hollow...the hollow version is more powerful or has greater fighting ability...so aizen who is one of the most powerful if not the most powerful shinigami we have seen, his hollow is going to be that much stronger.....and he may not have wanted to take a chance....also while it is true that we know that all the vaizards have conquered heir hollow...but in the 100 years we have no information about there might have been other people who lost their battle against teir hollows...also if it was guaranteed that the hollow would be defeated...the vaizard would not be so cautious and put a time limit on the transformation...I mean they should have seen the bad side to be scared of what might happen......

Answer to another question...the reason aizen could not detect urahara is because he is wearing a reiatsu masking coat...

mugen
June 06, 2008, 07:28 PM
i want to see Kisuke kick some ass...i want to see someone hit aizen...his fucking shikai is not that great!! i mean hypnotism is overrated in this manga!!

bladehappy
June 06, 2008, 07:49 PM
unfortunately, urahara's under hypnosis (he interacted with the fake aizen when he met hirako, talking abt the souls vanishing.. and during that conversation, shinji refered to the fake one as aizen, but urahara didn't see anything wrong...)


I disagree. If he was, I doubt he would openly attack Aizen from the start.




Answer to another question...the reason aizen could not detect urahara is because he is wearing a reiatsu masking coat...

Tessai didn't have the coat on. He could of detected Tessai at first.

Travis
June 06, 2008, 08:25 PM
Not sure but I think Aizen might invite Urahara to join him next chapter. He might try to appeal to his scientific nature. I think we'll also see Urahara explain what Aizen is doing, and Aizen confirming it and/or building on the explanation.

gordongirl
June 06, 2008, 08:28 PM
*claps* Great chapter :D I especially like the line where Aizen kinda foreshadows his big betrayal. I also really loved the Urahara part. But whats got me puzzled is if Aizen with all this having been done, how did Aizen become a Captain, letalone stay in SS? Maybe it somehow got coverd up?

bladehappy
June 06, 2008, 09:01 PM
Not sure but I think Aizen might invite Urahara to join him next chapter. He might try to appeal to his scientific nature. I think we'll also see Urahara explain what Aizen is doing, and Aizen confirming it and/or building on the explanation.

Don't forget that it says "An Inevitable Battle" at the end of this week's chapter. Also, Urahara isn't dumb enough to fall for a feeble attempt to be satisfied, and Urahara has already begun attacking him. And if it comes to the point where Aizen does ask him to join him (lol starwars) he'll deny because Aizen attacked his vice.

lobo-tuerto
June 06, 2008, 10:14 PM
I think the big guy that's accompanying Urahara is Ichigo's father.

What do you think?

notBowen
June 06, 2008, 10:17 PM
I think the big guy that's accompanying Urahara is Ichigo's father.

What do you think? What on Earth would make you think Tessai was Ichigo's father?

kkck
June 06, 2008, 10:32 PM
I would be vry disapointed if tessai was actually ichigo's father. It wouldnt make any sense at all, plus ishin kurosaki is awesome.

bladehappy
June 06, 2008, 11:02 PM
I'm sorry, but that was hilarious.

kazuma_uzumaki
June 06, 2008, 11:04 PM
I like how kubo made a couple extra pages :3

I don't like tousens old hairstyle >_>

So im guessing the story will be, the previous group tells on aizen and co but noone believes them so they run away

I wonder what the linbk though is between the vizards and urahara

Shiro-kun
June 06, 2008, 11:33 PM
Intersting Chapter , Aizen was rubbing his superior intelligence everywhere and making Hiruko look like a fool

i wonder how well Urahara well fare in the next chapters to come

Devil-buster
June 07, 2008, 02:45 AM
Tessai didn't have the coat on. He could of detected Tessai at first.[/QUOTE]

Well its true that tessai was with him...but who's not to say that tessai wasnt hiding his reiatsu also...I mean he is the kido corps leader...it shouldnt be hard for him....I am also pretty sure that Aizen has never met tessai since it is said that tessai rarely shows his face...If tessai openly walked around with his reiatsu all out others would notice and come running....that would ruin urahara plan of getting out by masking his reiatsu wouldnt it now......so I'm pretty sure tessai masked his reiatsu too...

Also I think even if Aizen hypnotized urahara, he would find a way to get out of it...I mean we know the Urahara in the SS arc was already out of Aizen hypnotism.....also he is the kinda of guy that figures things out in the middle of a battle....eg: battle with yami...counter to bala (or bara or whatever it is)...Also keep in mind that this guy is smarter than aizen...he is always one step ahead.....creating hyogyuku, knoqing aizen will go after rukia he sent ichigo, knowing aizen will go after Inoue he pulled he from battle....so I think aizen cannot defeat urahara with his shikai....

CaptFamous
June 07, 2008, 02:54 AM
At this point, I think the following situation is inevitable:

Regardless of what else we learn from the guiden, after the story returns to the fight at hand, we get a battle between the remaining arrancar and the captains. The shinigami will come out on top, and it will look bleak for Aizen and Co... until the three of them all reveal their hollow masks.

First off, if SS is so afraid of Vasto lords, how the hell could Aizen master them with basic shinigami power, even if he did max it out? He must have the boost of being a vizard. Second, even if you can believe that non-vaizard Aizen is strong enough to dominate the espada, can you really belive that Gin and Tousen are strong enough to have any authority? There's no way, unless they have masks. Third, why would Aizen use perform this experiment, deem it a success, and then never use it for his own gain?

Darek Khort
June 07, 2008, 03:00 AM
@CaptFamous - I agree. That seems highly plausible. This would also explain why Tousen can use Garganta.

As for this chapter, Urahara rocks my socks. That pose of his behind Aizen...I'm definately making a signature out of it. I really like.
I also like Aizen's look on his face, something I don't think I've seen before. Aizen is never surprised...except perhaps this time.


Also, about the argument that Urahara is already under Aizen's hypnosis. I don't think he is. Sure he saw the fake Aizen when Shinji revealed the fake Aizen hiding in the field. However we have to ask ourselves whether Urahara knew the real Aizen before then. It could well be that Urahara during this chance-meeting simply thought this 'fake Aizen' was indeed Aizen.
Think about it. If I told you my friend next to me was Bob you would recognize that person as Bob. You wouldn't say "Hey, that person ain't Bob. That's John!" unless:
1. You knew the person, or;
2. You knew who Bob actually is.

So in my view Urahara thought the fake Aizen was indeed Aizen. In this chapter he doesn't mention Aizen. For all we know Urahara might not know that the person in front of him is the real Aizen. Though I'm assuming he figures it out from the cut arm-band with the Squad number on it.

I support the theory that the disappearance of all these Captain and Vice-Captain reiatsu's will result SS coming to the rescue. SS will lock Urahara and Tessai in the Maggots nest where Urahara begins the creation of the Hougyoku. Mayuri might even rescue them, which would be ironic. Roles reversed.
The idea of Yorouichi rescuing them is better though since she does have fast shunpo. They use Artificial Gigai to hide their reiatsu.
They then rescue the Vizards who have been sent to the lab for research with Mayuri eagerly waiting to dissect them. The Vizards too will use the Artificial Gigai.

And about Isshin. It was said that Isshin had only recently regained his powers, and that he lost his powers 20 years ago or something of the sort. Seeing as though Rukia began losing her powers when she was in the reiatsu-supressing Artificial Gigai I have a feeling that prior to Rukia being the host of the Hougkyoku, Isshin was the previous host. There might have been a few more hosts before Isshin which would account for the gap from 100 years to 20 years ago since Urahara was apparently banished.
This would also explain why Isshin as powerful as he seems to be was unable to rescue his wife in time from a relative weakling such as Grand Fisher. It is most likely due to his loss of shinigami powers due to the gigai.

How Urahara and Isshin met though...I still can't figure out...

xPm
June 07, 2008, 04:36 AM
The fake aizen followed shinji for a month and Uraraha was promoted captain 9 years before this, so I think he knows what the real aizen looks like

Travis
June 07, 2008, 06:48 AM
Yeah Aizen was at the promotion ceremony. Also, you have Shinji calling Aizen, "Souske" when Aizen was telling Urahara about the missing people in Rukongi. Urahara would have to be playing along with it if he weren't under the hypnosis. Or he'd have to develop a technique that can bypass it almost immediately.

Warrior Advance
June 07, 2008, 06:59 AM
@lobo-tuerto

I think that Tessai is not Ichigo's father. It is stated in the manga that Isshin is Ichigo's father. There is no doubt. Remember, Isshin and Ichigo have the same last name, which is KUROSAKI.

kunai-knight
June 07, 2008, 08:40 AM
I don't see why Urahara just can't build a device or something that can stop the effects of a shikai/bankai, similar to how the Espada scientist did to Renji's bankai. I doubt he's smarter than Urahara, and certainly i'm sure even Mayuri would be capable of developing something like that.

Can't really think of any other way of defeating Aizen right now. I mean look at how he schooled shinji and he was wise enough to detect something off with him.

Thats also pretty interesting though, because if Shinji (and perhaps Shunsui too) was capable of detecting the 'evil' in Aizen so to speak, why didn't someone more capable like Yamamoto detect it too? Yamamoto doesn't really seem to be the 'smart' leader type, it looks like he was chosen more based on his strength.

siriusearl
June 07, 2008, 09:10 AM
well, if aizen was indeed a "superman" as what people here call him. kryptonite will be his weakness >.<

@kunai-knight
let's just say aizen is a very good actor to decieve the stronger captains. shinji was too vigilant to aizen, that he never noticed what happened to him.

Zeus-Tails
June 07, 2008, 11:00 AM
Also I think even if Aizen hypnotized urahara, he would find a way to get out of it...I mean we know the Urahara in the SS arc was already out of Aizen hypnotism.....also he is the kinda of guy that figures things out in the middle of a battle....eg: battle with yami...counter to bala (or bara or whatever it is)...Also keep in mind that this guy is smarter than aizen...he is always one step ahead.....creating hyogyuku, knoqing aizen will go after rukia he sent ichigo, knowing aizen will go after Inoue he pulled he from battle....so I think aizen cannot defeat urahara with his shikai....

Urahara was never a step ahead of Aizen. He was behind Aizen and I doubt he's smarter. Urahara may be able to learn during battle but Aizen plans things out similar to Shikamaru in Naruto. His plans go over too perfectly so it's obvious that he plans out multiple possibilities in order to get his way.

Creating the Hyogyoku doesn't imply he's a step ahead because we still aren't sure why he created it.

Obviously he knows Aizen would go after Rukia since he knows the real Aizen by the start of the SS arc. Sending Ichigo doesn't show Urahara is a step ahead. I don't know where you got that from. I think he just sent Ichigo and hoped for the best because a) there is no way he would think Ichigo would be able to stop Aizen and b) Aizen got what he wanted anyway. Furthermore, Ichigo ended up helping Aizen's plans along so Urahara's plan actually backfired. How is that being a step ahead?

He knew Aizen would go after Inoue? No, he didn't because if he did he would have put more protection around her if possible or at least ask SS to do so. He didn't want her in battle because she is more of the healer, not a fighter. Furthermore, it was revealing that Aizen simply used Inoue as bait and Urahara along with the 4 captains fell for it since Urahara helped the captains get there.

If anything Aizen has been stringing Urahara along the whole time. Urahara snuck up behind Aizen with a reiatsu-hiding cloak and the most he could do was knock off Aizen's lieutenant tag. That doesn't say much about Urahara.

Furthermore, Urahara isn't Szayel and randomly assuming Urahara is smarter than Szayel is kinda from left field. Urahara has some good inventions but Szayel has good inventions too. Szayel made a device to nullify Renji's bankai in a matter of minutes and he made his fraccion into a substance that regenerates injuries. The only thing Urahara has down that comes close to those two things from Szayel is the Hyogoku.

iyung
June 07, 2008, 12:31 PM
At this point Aizen is too smart , if he was about to create vizards a hundreds prior why did he do all those lame experiments after. He obviously reach his pinnacle of achievement first try. like I really hope in finally battle Shinji leans into Aizen's chest. I'm tired of this guy. At this point i dont care who kills him . i just want him to die.. Even with him ability we have yet to see him in real all out battle. He has to have weakness. Besides the one tousen can exploit. But i do want to see greatest battle royal when they fast foward back to present so it better be worth the wait.

Just a thought would it not be worst thing ever if Tousen has been waiting 100 years to kill Aizen in the name of Justice. Considering his abilitys dont affect him. And its obvious he has been holding back all these years.

patastinky
June 07, 2008, 02:29 PM
At this point, I think the following situation is inevitable:

Regardless of what else we learn from the guiden, after the story returns to the fight at hand, we get a battle between the remaining arrancar and the captains. The shinigami will come out on top, and it will look bleak for Aizen and Co... until the three of them all reveal their hollow masks.

First off, if SS is so afraid of Vasto lords, how the hell could Aizen master them with basic shinigami power, even if he did max it out? He must have the boost of being a vizard. Second, even if you can believe that non-vaizard Aizen is strong enough to dominate the espada, can you really belive that Gin and Tousen are strong enough to have any authority? There's no way, unless they have masks. Third, why would Aizen use perform this experiment, deem it a success, and then never use it for his own gain?

I think it is as plausable as Ichigo's mask being completed. Meaning it will have the markings all over. Then he'll be super banaki, vizard, hollow, Kage bunshin no jutsu, どうもありがとう, どういたしまして, HOLLER!!!

Doombot
June 07, 2008, 03:19 PM
I think people are missing the point here. Aizen seems to deem Vaizards as failures. There could be one giant flaw we haven't seen yet that only he knows about. Why would he continue to experiment, like he did on Kaien Shiba, if the Vaizards are the peak of Shinigami and Hollow hybrids?

kigai
June 07, 2008, 03:28 PM
Tousen hair is gay.....

I dont get how the hollow transformation takes place for give me if i missed something but i dont really see how it happens......:darn

Anyone care to fill me in?

Thankies

maxhrk
June 07, 2008, 04:09 PM
It make me wonder how it is done too, Kigai.

Tsukisama
June 07, 2008, 04:32 PM
I enjoyed this chapter. It was very entertaining. Watching Aizen smugly give his classic villain "And here's how I did it..." speech was amusing. This chapter also answered one of the topics that we have been debating for some time now: whether Shinji broke through Aizen's shikai. It seems that whatever happened, Shinji did not accomplish breaking the Bleach equivalent to the all-powerful Sharingan of the Naruto series. :amuse


Urahara arriving at the end implies that a fight will begin for sure, unless something else comes to happen;

And I'm sure Urahara will try something to save Shinji and co.;

I agree. A fight will definitely begin, but it most likely won't get very far. More than likely, we might see some shikai action from Aizen and Urahara. (Well, hopefully not much from Aizen; otherwise, he instantly will have Urahara under his spell. :blink) Following that Urahara will definitely try to aid the vizards somehow (enter the Hougyoku).

What I hope to see most next chapter is how SS will discover this situation. Will Aizen have to do some convincing, or will the situation (the Kidou Corps' most skilled individual and the reiatsu-cloaked captain of the research institute together surrounded by numerous powerful and mysteriously hollowfied shinigami) speak for itself?


woohoo.. finally... okay.. now i'm more confused..
if Urahara know all this why can't he warned them? i mean he still keep in contact w/ them so why not?? ugh.. seriously 100 years? i mean if it was less it would have been okay but 100 years.. and they still didnt' do anything even when they know soo much about his betrayal and stuff..

Memory alter? or hypnosis..

Kubo will have a bit of a tough time explaining this one. The only plausible thing I could see is Aizen doing some sort of memory modification on Urahara and Tessai to keep them quiet (or maybe some sort of blackmail). If memory alteration turns out to be another ability of Kyouka Suigetsu, then I might just quit reading Bleach. :p


This was an intersting line imo: "What is truly fearsome is the betrayal you don't see" What could that possibly mean?

Looks like the translation was done really fast so maybe it was a mistranslation.

It is just Aizen gloating about how he got away with everything right under Shinji's nose despite all of Shinji's suspicions.


I think Urahara did inform some in SS about Aizens's betrayal but even if some had their doubts, they still didn't have evidence against Aizen.

Shunsui and Ukitake suddenly chose to save Rukia and Kukaku was preparing for a fight. Me thinks, Yoruichi was able to finally convince them when she went to SS with Ichigo and things got really suspicious with Aizen's "death" and Rukia's execution being set earlier than its original date.

If that wasn't the case, then I am sure Kubo will cover this point. The arc isn't over yet and we don't know how Urahara's encounter with Aizen will end...we don't even know how Aizen covered up everything he's done.

I could see a case being made for Shunsui realizing Aizen was shady in SS given all of the characterization towards that end he has received. (Shunsui was said by Yamamoto to be the best at discerning people's true natures, and now he has been shown to be at least a little suspicous of Aizen in the past.)

Ukitake, however, was definitely not suspecting Aizen of anything. He looked utterly shocked (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/172/12/) when Isane reported Aizen's acitivites. (Shunsui seemed rather calm about it, strengthening the case for him being suspicious of Aizen all along.)


Urahara was the one to actually make Hōgyoku and both transformations (hollow -> arrancar and shinigami -> vaizard) shouldn't be very different. Ichigo's trasformation was probably boosted by one of Kisuke's inventions.

The only way we have been shown that Urahara has "boosted" Ichigo's transformation in any way was the gas inside the shattered shaft (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/62/06/), which accelerated the process of his soul-chain degeneration. Urahara has not been shown to have done anything more than that to accelerate or even augment Ichigo's transformation.

As someone else said, Urahara has presumably only made the Hougyoku as a device to interfere with the boundaries between being a shinigami and a hollow, and the Hougyoku has already been accounted for during his transformation.

Jehuty
June 07, 2008, 04:38 PM
I think people are missing the point here. Aizen seems to deem Vaizards as failures. There could be one giant flaw we haven't seen yet that only he knows about. Why would he continue to experiment, like he did on Kaien Shiba, if the Vaizards are the peak of Shinigami and Hollow hybrids?
I think he wanted something more Hollow than Shinigami. That's why he chose the Arrancar.

anonym9191
June 07, 2008, 04:58 PM
Didn't Aizen himself say only Urahara was able to create a (perfect) hollow and shinigami mixture?
So no: I don't think he wants something more hollow; he just wanted something more perfect or something like this.
Otherwise he could have started with hollows from the beginning.

Tsukisama
June 07, 2008, 05:10 PM
Didn't Aizen himself say only Urahara was able to create a (perfect) hollow and shinigami mixture?
So no: I don't think he wants something more hollow; he just wanted something more perfect or something like this.
Otherwise he could have started with hollows from the beginning.

Aizen specifically says he focused on shinigami-hollows (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/11/) (i.e., arrancar). I do agree that he was probably working towards the same end result of creating something that was so in-between a hollow and a shinigami that it would be meaningless to classify it as one or the other.

THETRUTH.com
June 07, 2008, 07:15 PM
I also think that from the stand point of available specimen, he needed to use hollows. Look at all the commotion this event caused is shinigami keep disappearing and everyone stays at a high-level of readiness then he would not be able to experiment at all.

Not to mention he doesnt seem to be the best scientist. He is pretty slow for an evil genius. He needed lots of specimens to get nowhere or as he said nothing "worthy of being called a breakthrough" (/http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/12/). So with the amount of subjects he would need for all of his failed experiments his only best choice was to focus on shinigami-hollows.

Zeus-Tails
June 07, 2008, 08:14 PM
Aizen's bankai is called Mangekyou Kyoka Suigetsu. It can basically control all matter and spirit particles. He also has the ability to summon Madara, Itachi and Sasuke by pressing A, B, Down, Down, Up, Y on his zanpakutoh.

High Noon
June 07, 2008, 08:32 PM
Haha yeah

I'd really love to see what Benihime bankai can do.

Any guesses?

THETRUTH.com
June 07, 2008, 09:22 PM
Urahara was never a step ahead of Aizen. He was behind Aizen and I doubt he's smarter. Urahara may be able to learn during battle but Aizen plans things out similar to Shikamaru in Naruto. His plans go over too perfectly so it's obvious that he plans out multiple possibilities in order to get his way.


Aizen has a unique ability to alter reality and he knows how to use it well. You dont have to be that smart to fool people that think you are sitting in front of them and your actually behind them. He is effective but that does not as smart or smarter than Urahara.


Creating the Hyogyoku doesn't imply he's a step ahead because we still aren't sure why he created it.

Obviously he knows Aizen would go after Rukia since he knows the real Aizen by the start of the SS arc. Sending Ichigo doesn't show Urahara is a step ahead. I don't know where you got that from. I think he just sent Ichigo and hoped for the best because a) there is no way he would think Ichigo would be able to stop Aizen and b) Aizen got what he wanted anyway. Furthermore, Ichigo ended up helping Aizen's plans along so Urahara's plan actually backfired. How is that being a step ahead?

He knew Aizen would go after Inoue? No, he didn't because if he did he would have put more protection around her if possible or at least ask SS to do so. He didn't want her in battle because she is more of the healer, not a fighter. Furthermore, it was revealing that Aizen simply used Inoue as bait and Urahara along with the 4 captains fell for it since Urahara helped the captains get there.


If Aizen didn't want to use Inoue's power to awaken HK that is simply stupid. It doesnt make sense for him to not want to use her even if he is using her for something else. And why would he have Stark retrieve her if he has no futher use for her. Oh he must want Ulquoirra to fight Ichigo which wouldn't even matter if the HK was awakened.


If anything Aizen has been stringing Urahara along the whole time. Urahara snuck up behind Aizen with a reiatsu-hiding cloak and the most he could do was knock off Aizen's lieutenant tag. That doesn't say much about Urahara.


If Aizen is so superior why is Urahara alive today. He didnt know about HK then cause if he did why would he be doing these experiments, failed experiments.


Furthermore, Urahara isn't Szayel and randomly assuming Urahara is smarter than Szayel is kinda from left field. Urahara has some good inventions but Szayel has good inventions too. Szayel made a device to nullify Renji's bankai in a matter of minutes and he made his fraccion into a substance that regenerates injuries. The only thing Urahara has down that comes close to those two things from Szayel is the Hyogoku.


No Szayel got lots of information from when his brother fought Renji. Urahara on the other hand figured out a technique he had seen before in seconds.

wrstljr
June 07, 2008, 09:29 PM
I know I'm going to get yelled at but quite frankly I don't care.

I've been with Bleach since the beginning, believing and hoping that it could sustain its initial goodness.

But this is some of the sloppiest story-telling I've ever seen. It's like Kubo has just been winging it ever since they got out of SS.

It's just been poor...and I know everyone doesn't want to admit it but its true. Kubo has been using the same things over and over again for about two years now and its just disgusting.

Not to mention that...but he's outdoing Kishimoto with "plot no justu" lately.

This gaiden started with promise and gave everyone hope that we would get some explanation. Instead we get this...which is practically insulting to the reader. Were just supposed to Urahara already had this experience and still sent Ichigo to SS 100 years later when he was insanely unprepared....basically sent him to his death then.

Uggghhh.

And another thing...what the hell does Aizen need perfect hybrids for when he can take out all of SS himself...then smugly talk about how it was his master plan all along.

Doombot
June 07, 2008, 10:21 PM
The only time Aizen seemed concerned if you remember it is when they spoke about the Royal Guard. Royal Guard seems to be the elite of the 13 captains. This could be why Aizen thinks he needs his hybrids. Another reason is he is probably trying to perfect the process before doing it on himself. Which is why I do not think he is a Vaizard.

THETRUTH.com
June 07, 2008, 11:32 PM
@wrstljr
I agree with several of the things you have said. Alot of what Aizen does seems to be rationalized(by Kubo) at the end to make him seem on top of things.

Prediction

Yoruichi & her forces will come(cause her division is standing at the ready) Aizen will leave. Then her squad will end up helping carry them back to 12 Squad HQ. Where Urahara will transfer all the Vizards to the untraceable gigai which will be how they get out of Soul Society through the Western Rukongai gate (Urahara's gate) to the Real World. This is another reason why Urahara is banished they use his gate proving he aided the "criminals".

Next they will live in the real world until they become completely human like Isshin. The untraceable gigai drains the spritual power of the user. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/15/) So this should include hollow powers as well. This is also the reason Aizen doesnt know the Shinji & co. still exist and have their powers(both shinigami & hollow). Since he says the shinigami "...could never recover their spiritual power" (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/15/). But we now know that is not true from Isshin.

Following the Vizards becoming completely human, Urahara then developed the method he later used on Ichigo to develop his shinigami powers. And he knew Ichigo had his own power(just like Yuzu&Karin should) because he is the son of Isshin. He used this method to awaken the Vizard's lost power. This is how he knew Ichigo had a chance when he began to tranform. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/63/02/)

Then after reviving their powers. They one by one battled their inner hollow. This is why they know how long it took everyone to finish their battles. The timing part probably came from Urahara reminds me of the bankai training Ichigo under went. By the way Hiyori (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/216/04/) acts very similar to Urahara (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/66/12/) when she was trying to get Ichigo to call out his hollow. The time Lisa mention (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/06/) is what Urahara deemed safe.

I think Aizen may have pulled a fast one and is now in SS but that would be a misstep since K-Town is in SS. That mean Vizards, Urahara, Tessai, Yoruichi, Isshin, and Ryuuken are there as well. I would rather face the SS Captains than this group.

sk.nite
June 08, 2008, 12:53 AM
@wrstljr
I agree with several of the things you have said. Alot of what Aizen does seems to be rationalized(by Kubo) at the end to make him seem on top of things.

Prediction

Yoruichi & her forces will come(cause her division is standing at the ready) Aizen will leave. Then her squad will end up helping carry them back to 12 Squad HQ. Where Urahara will transfer all the Vizards to the untraceable gigai which will be how they get out of Soul Society through the Western Rukongai gate (Urahara's gate) to the Real World. This is another reason why Urahara is banished they use his gate proving he aided the "criminals".

Next they will live in the real world until they become completely human like Isshin. The untraceable gigai drains the spritual power of the user. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/15/) So this should include hollow powers as well. This is also the reason Aizen doesnt know the Shinji & co. still exist and have their powers(both shinigami & hollow). Since he says the shinigami "...could never recover their spiritual power" (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/15/). But we now know that is not true from Isshin.

Following the Vizards becoming completely human, Urahara then developed the method he later used on Ichigo to develop his shinigami powers. And he knew Ichigo had his own power(just like Yuzu&Karin should) because he is the son of Isshin. He used this method to awaken the Vizard's lost power. This is how he knew Ichigo had a chance when he began to tranform. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/63/02/)

Then after reviving their powers. They one by one battled their inner hollow. This is why they know how long it took everyone to finish their battles. The timing part probably came from Urahara reminds me of the bankai training Ichigo under went. By the way Hiyori (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/216/04/) acts very similar to Urahara (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/66/12/) when she was trying to get Ichigo to call out his hollow. The time Lisa mention (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/06/) is what Urahara deemed safe.

I think Aizen may have pulled a fast one and is now in SS but that would be a misstep since K-Town is in SS. That mean Vizards, Urahara, Tessai, Yoruichi, Isshin, and Ryuuken are there as well. I would rather face the SS Captains than this group.

This is pretty good. I bet it's better than what Kubo will write XD

If this is the actual hollowfication for the vizards there's gonna be a giant plothole. Not even him would miss something like this.

Grimjaww
June 08, 2008, 02:12 AM
This is getting a little dumb now, Aizen being behind everything and being able to own captains with his squad of 2 and himself.........Not too mention being able to recognize Urahara when he had his reiatsu cloaked. Kubo is making Aizen to be way to overpowered with his intellect, rapage zanpaktou, and strong companions. Shunsui definately suspects Aizen, but to what extent.

Now the question is, if Shunsui suspected Aizen and just saw 4 of his fellow captains get banished, 1 captain dissapear, and the head of the kidou division dissapear, then why the fuck did he stay in soul society even after all this?? He isn't a guy who holds back his feelings when he thinks something is wrong, like when he saved Rukia with Ukitake.

DarkManSharingan32
June 08, 2008, 03:18 AM
This is getting a little dumb now, Aizen being behind everything and being able to own captains with his squad of 2 and himself.........Not too mention being able to recognize Urahara when he had his reiatsu cloaked. Kubo is making Aizen to be way to overpowered with his intellect, rapage zanpaktou, and strong companions. Shunsui definately suspects Aizen, but to what extent.

Now the question is, if Shunsui suspected Aizen and just saw 4 of his fellow captains get banished, 1 captain dissapear, and the head of the kidou division dissapear, then why the fuck did he stay in soul society even after all this?? He isn't a guy who holds back his feelings when he thinks something is wrong, like when he saved Rukia with Ukitake.

Thats the thing.
This storyline is removed from the SS Arc by what 100 years or so?

That means after ALL this...
Aizen and his ilk were able to stay in SS, and even rise in rank.
---

I think it's pretty easy:

They pin it all an Urahara, and get them kicked out of the SS... along with anyone who stands up for him.

No Quarter
June 08, 2008, 04:01 AM
Thats the thing.
This storyline is removed from the SS Arc by what 100 years or so?

That means after ALL this...
Aizen and his ilk were able to stay in SS, and even rise in rank.
---

I think it's pretty easy:

They pin it all an Urahara, and get them kicked out of the SS... along with anyone who stands up for him.

I think that what everyone believes it will happen, but still it doesn't really make much sense. You have like 5 captains and 3 - 4 VCs all knowing what happened. And they all are alive and well 100 years in the future. Even if they didn't warn SS back then, they still had a freaking 100 years to do so.

Kubo better have a really, REALLY, good explanation for all this. Or he is going to pull a huge twist on us, like all Vaizards and Urahara are Aizens allies or something.

I like this arc a lot, but there are some potential HUGE plot holes. Let's just hope Kubo steps up to the challenge and gives a good explanation for all this.

ryanzokuken
June 08, 2008, 06:53 AM
their word and how many of them there are doesn't mean anything when dealing with Aizen.

with kyoka suigetsu, he can make you see anything he wants. and it effects all five senses, not just sight. Aizen could fabricate a stockpile of evidene that doesn't actually exist to show to the others. that, added to his, Gin's, and Tousen's word, the fact that Shinji and co. are compromised and potentially a huge threat because of the hollowification, the already-suspiscious and illegal things Urahara is doing (reiatsu hiding cloak, untracable gigai, etc), blah blah blah.

for Aizen, getting rid of them like that is easy, regardless of how many people say otherwise and accuse him.

zet
June 08, 2008, 07:43 AM
Come one guys, unless kubo pulls some more surprises we all know how this is gonna playout, Urahara and Tessai get all the blaim and get exiled. Now we know that Yoruichi is not banned because she can use the gate to go to SS and Byakuya when he see's her only mentions that she vanished from SS at one point, Soi Fon in the other hand knows why she left and feels betrayed because she has a women crush on her lol.

As is, theres alot of things that Kisuke could get banned for, untracable cloak maybe even the gigai, maybe he already created the Hougiyoku and it could be found in his lab by and investigation carried out by the seretei further implying that it was him that was doing the experiments and that discovery would be the first time aizen ears of it aswell and sparks his interest in it.

I have faith in Kubo, because up until now he hasn't disapointed me, but he has left alot of ananwsered questions behind and so he needs to clarify them for us, and that is exactly what he's doing now (although he created new ones in the process).

Zeus-Tails
June 08, 2008, 08:35 AM
The thing is we have to remember that Urahara was kicked out for making a special gigai. This is what I think happened:

-Somehow Aizen vs Urahara resolves. I doubt Urahara is capable of beating Aizen even then
-The Vizards are incapacitated and when everyone goes back to the Sereitei, the Vizards are put into the Maggot's Nest.
-When interrogating Aizen, Tousen, Gin, Tessai, and Urahara, it's basically Urahara's word against Aizen's word. However, since Aizen has an alibi, it is less likely that he is the culprit so they keep an eye on Urahara who doesn't have an alibi.
-Urahara, feeling for the Vizards, tries to develop a way to bring them back to normal. He develops the Hyogoku, but he saw something negative about it and tried to destroy it or at least never use it.
-Urahara then overhears Yamamoto talking about executing the Vizards because they are too much of a potential threat even for the Maggot's Nest (especially since half of them are powered-up captains).
-Urahara then creates special gigais to allow the Vizards to escape from SS, but SS find out and they exile Urahara for helping prisoners escape.

Cyanilurus
June 08, 2008, 10:18 AM
Not only do they simply exile Urahara; Yoruichi was deemed a traitor because she helped him escape and then, of course, she escaped herself. (chpater 159)
I definitely think Aizen will make Urahara take the blame, but then there is the gap of creating the Hougyoku (Speeling please?)...
But then I saw a Shinji on a really, really old cover in the style that was much like the start of the series, so Kubo might be thinking "finally I can tell this part of the story". ;D

Hockeychaoz
June 08, 2008, 01:56 PM
Future Prediction
I think we're going to see Aizen vs SS, and a bit more talking, and the fight pairings will be revealed. (Who vs who) And at the end of the chapter we will see Ichigo go to the fifth tower and confront Ulq.

Next chapter:

Ulq will go to fight Ichigo, but Yami will step in the way and release. I figure that Ichigo will kill him without his mask in some sick way, effortlessly. I think the Ichi/ulq fight will be first, and as a dying act, Ulq will open a gargantia to the real world for Ichigo and Co. (I'm not so sure he's 100% loyal to Aizen.)

Ichigo will come out and find SS beaten. I have to assume after all this, at least 1 captain will die. (Money on Yama, or Shunshin)

No one on the good guy side has died yet, this is getting ridiculous.

Doombot
June 08, 2008, 02:16 PM
I can't see Shunshin being killed but yeah Yama would be an interesting one. I want him to at least push Aizen to the limit though. Old people are tough.

zet
June 08, 2008, 02:30 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/15/

as that page says she was relieved of her dutty but she wasnt exiled like urahara, thats why she can go through the gate to SS. also it tells us that she helps urahara escape, so he will get arrested for this acts, maybe aizen as well but later cleared!? theres alot of things that can be pined on urahara so it wouldnt be hard to aizen to escape punishment.

Jehuty
June 08, 2008, 02:35 PM
I can't see Shunshin being killed but yeah Yama would be an interesting one. I want him to at least push Aizen to the limit though. Old people are tough.
Agreed. They didn't invent the word "crotchety" for nothin'.

ShaunMati1
June 08, 2008, 02:40 PM
i doubt we will see the fights between SS and aizen next chapter. Kubo is going to have to conclude this for us. Show us the process of urahara and tessais exile and the ban of the vaizards. And who ever on here said that aizen is too strong, i agree. His shikai is rediculous, who knows how insane his bankai is. In the gaiden he took out countless cpts and VC so we see how insanely strong he is. One thing i want to know is why he is so strong. Why does he have so much riatsu and stuff like that.

Edome
June 08, 2008, 02:46 PM
This is getting a little dumb now, Aizen being behind everything and being able to own captains with his squad of 2 and himself.........Not too mention being able to recognize Urahara when he had his reiatsu cloaked. Kubo is making Aizen to be way to overpowered with his intellect, rapage zanpaktou, and strong companions. Shunsui definately suspects Aizen, but to what extent.

Now the question is, if Shunsui suspected Aizen and just saw 4 of his fellow captains get banished, 1 captain dissapear, and the head of the kidou division dissapear, then why the fuck did he stay in soul society even after all this?? He isn't a guy who holds back his feelings when he thinks something is wrong, like when he saved Rukia with Ukitake.

I agree to an extent. The whole illusion powers are becoming more of a cop-out than an interesting plot twist. 'That was just an illusion. That illusion was part of another illusion' and it's just one illusion after another to explain everything, kind of lame. It'd be much more interesting if it had some noticeable flaws that Aizen was smart enough to work around.

All that aside, this should lead to an interesting showdown once the manga finally gets there. If Aizen isn't at least a little bit surprised to see them there, than i'd be dissapointed.

Shiro-kun
June 08, 2008, 03:28 PM
I agree to an extent. The whole illusion powers are becoming more of a cop-out than an interesting plot twist. 'That was just an illusion. That illusion was part of another illusion' and it's just one illusion after another to explain everything, kind of lame. It'd be much more interesting if it had some noticeable flaws that Aizen was smart enough to work around.

All that aside, this should lead to an interesting showdown once the manga finally gets there. If Aizen isn't at least a little bit surprised to see them there, than i'd be dissapointed.

Aizen has a bird eye view on everything that is going on cleary a informative person and always a step ahead of everyone , and i agree that this plot device has been used before (...Soul Society arc for example ..) which isnt entirely orginal but if Aizen is surprise by the end of this Gaiden it would be different than the other times that kubo did this

Travis
June 08, 2008, 03:39 PM
It's probably really possible that the Central 46 is already in Aizen's pocket. So whatever story Aizen wants to tell he can. For all we know Aizen could set up some evidence of this gigai thing, manipulate the Central 46 into banishing him. He could probably make it so that even if Urahara was trying to say something that no one could hear him or see his mouth moving.

If that's not the case, he can still manipulate the government into choosing his side. I also think that the whole gigai thing could be a coverup for the vaizard business. It's likely what happens here is the reason for Urahara's exile, but it's kept top secret, and the gigai thing is the excuse. So for all the people expecting Urahara to stay in SS after this and develop a gigai then get banned, I don't think that will happen.

The question remains though, then, when does Urahara make the Hougykou and if he does it in the real world, how does Aizen know about it.

No Quarter
June 08, 2008, 04:50 PM
Look even if Aizen hypnotizes everyone to see a shit load of evidence blaming Urahara for everything that he did it still is a big plot hole. Shinji theoretically can warn SS that "you know Aizen's zanpakuto? It has a nifty ability called Absolute Hypnosis". And they have 100 years to do so. Even if he does somehow frames Urahara, at the very least SS should have kept an extra eye on Aizen. You have around 10 high ranking officers against 1. What is easier to believe? That 10 officers have organized a coup or that 1 VC is a double crossing sob? And again, even if they believe Aizen, based on suspicion alone they should have kept an eye on him.

So the explanation cannot simply be that Aizen frames Urahara. Not while there are so many witnesses willing to testify against Aizen. Of course Aizen could probably hypnotize SS to hear the words "Urahara did it" coming out of Shinji's mouth or something. Anyway, my prediction is that Kubo has some kind of surprise in store. Maybe Aizen's BanKai can actually control the actions of individuals or something, not just fool their senses.

The2nd
June 08, 2008, 04:55 PM
I guess i can offer another side. Since all of the people in that confrontation are still alive I don't see any big battle. Urahara is probably stronger than Aizen, but Aizen gave his Espada a technique to cast away each other for a period of time into a special zone. Maybe he will use it to make Urahara and the rest bound to Earth, that would explain why Urahara could not help out Ichigo at Soul Society ark.

hajialibaig
June 08, 2008, 04:56 PM
Maybe Aizen's BanKai can actually control the actions of individuals or something, not just fool their senses.


Only 4.5 days to go until the next chapter comes out, so let's wait and see......I am already bored of this gaiden... need some action..Hint: like an espada fight, for example

TheChosenOne
June 08, 2008, 05:05 PM
Maybe Aizen's BanKai can actually control the actions of individuals or something, not just fool their senses.

You mean some concept of mind control ? I hope not, that would just make him omnipotent if he isn't already. :)

Zeus-Tails
June 08, 2008, 05:12 PM
Maybe everyone should stfu about "plothole this" and "plothole that" and wait to see what happens.

Shiro-kun
June 08, 2008, 05:21 PM
You mean some concept of mind control ? I hope not that would just make him omnipotent if he isn't already. :)

The idea of Mind Control sounds horrible :notrust
Since his shikai is Hypnosis , its propable though

I think just using his Shikai makes him Omnipotent in some shape or form :oh

Tsukisama
June 08, 2008, 07:49 PM
It's probably really possible that the Central 46 is already in Aizen's pocket. So whatever story Aizen wants to tell he can. For all we know Aizen could set up some evidence of this gigai thing, manipulate the Central 46 into banishing him.

This would seem like overkill to me. Aizen is already in a good enough position to get whatever he wants and does not also need to have Central 46 in his pocket. (Do you really want for him to have that much control over everything?) Plus, if he had them in his pocket all that time, why would he have needed to kill all of them and impersonate them to get his agenda across? Why not just tell them to make it happen?

Warrior Advance
June 08, 2008, 08:19 PM
Look even if Aizen hypnotizes everyone to see a shit load of evidence blaming Urahara for everything that he did it still is a big plot hole. Shinji theoretically can warn SS that "you know Aizen's zanpakuto? It has a nifty ability called Absolute Hypnosis". And they have 100 years to do so. Even if he does somehow frames Urahara, at the very least SS should have kept an extra eye on Aizen. You have around 10 high ranking officers against 1. What is easier to believe? That 10 officers have organized a coup or that 1 VC is a double crossing sob? And again, even if they believe Aizen, based on suspicion alone they should have kept an eye on him.

So the explanation cannot simply be that Aizen frames Urahara. Not while there are so many witnesses willing to testify against Aizen. Of course Aizen could probably hypnotize SS to hear the words "Urahara did it" coming out of Shinji's mouth or something. Anyway, my prediction is that Kubo has some kind of surprise in store. Maybe Aizen's BanKai can actually control the actions of individuals or something, not just fool their senses.

Hmm About 10 Captains Vs 1 Captain, I think I do not agree with that. The reason is because (in my assumption, Grandfather of Kuchiki Byakuya will die soon and probably Gin and Tousen will become the NEXT Captains). Therefore, I think that 9 Captains Vs 3 Captains. Another 1 Captain has not been replaced by anyone else. Total captain would be 13 Captains.

C4animax
June 08, 2008, 10:17 PM
It's probably really possible that the Central 46 is already in Aizen's pocket. So whatever story Aizen wants to tell he can. For all we know Aizen could set up some evidence of this gigai thing, manipulate the Central 46 into banishing him. He could probably make it so that even if Urahara was trying to say something that no one could hear him or see his mouth moving.
The question remains though, then, when does Urahara make the Hougykou and if he does it in the real world, how does Aizen know about it.

I think the same, at this point of the story aizen seems to be already set in his plans, that would explain at least why shinji was sent there and why the other one wasn't (the one with healing abilities).

There's a possibility that urahara created it while being warned by someone suspicious of aizen...the other thing would be that he created it after what he saw to neggate the process. (he did create a gigai after hearing the soul story) but that would mean that he wasn't banned form SS.


Maybe Aizen's BanKai can actually control the actions of individuals or something, not just fool their senses.

I think his shikai serves that purpose enough, i mean i can't see the allmigthy aizen asking gently one of the main character to stab himself/one of the group and watch him/them die quietly, it's just good for a high level ennemy.

As someone stated with his shikai he can probably make you think you hit him full force while using a few amount of your strengh...that's good enough for controling your senses and i believe there'd more to aizen's bankai.


You mean some concept of mind control ? I hope not, that would just make him omnipotent if he isn't already. :)

Don't exactly remember how but espada number 8 could crush your body organs from a distance, if that's not similar/as dangerous as that kind of abilities then i don't know what is dangerous.

Jehuty
June 08, 2008, 10:22 PM
I think the same, at this point of the story aizen seems to be already set in his plans, that would explain at least why shinji was sent there and why the other one wasn't (the one with healing abilities).

There's a possibility that urahara created it while being warned by someone suspicious of aizen...the other thing would be that he created it after what he saw to neggate the process. (he did create a gigai after hearing the soul story) but that would mean that he wasn't banned form SS.



I think his shikai serves that purpose enough, i mean i can't see the allmigthy aizen asking gently one of the main character to stab himself/one of the group and watch him/them die quietly, it's just good for a high level ennemy.

As someone stated with his shikai he can probably make you think you hit him full force while using a few amount of your strengh...that's good enough for controling your senses and i believe there'd more to aizen's bankai.



Don't exactly remember how but espada number 8 could crush your body organs from a distance, if that's not similar/as dangerous as that kind of abilities then i don't know what is dangerous.
Aizen's bankai, I've always imagined, is similar to the Mangekyou Sharingan technique Tsukiyomi in Naruto, as in it screws with their mind to the point of breaking.

gigantor21
June 08, 2008, 10:42 PM
^ He could do that with his Shikai though, right? Just hypnotize them into thinking their being tortured.

My theory is that Aizen's Bankai will give him psychic abilities. I shudder to think how he'd use KS if he could read your mind or something. It'd also be a nice departure from the "OMG BIGGER IS BETTER" trend with most Bankai, which has resulted in lots of grossly overscaled powers.

C4animax
June 08, 2008, 11:07 PM
I think he can do a lot more that we think with his shikai, he made hiyori (don't remember the name) go crazy on making her think he was killed, i would suspect something similar to byakuya, you know increase of the % of critical hit, maybe analising your mind or your intention because i suppose that while being captain he has the same strengh (at least) than the others and doesn't need superflu/huge power to destroy the surranding .

I just don't want to imagine aizen activating his mangekyou sharingan :D it'd be quite difficult anyway because he's using a sword, but seing his ability that would not really surprise me if that was it.

I really hope we can see tessai in action in the next chapter ^^.

iyung
June 09, 2008, 12:47 AM
Ultimate Plot twist. Tousen Kills Aizen in finally battle for Justice

Yans86
June 09, 2008, 02:13 AM
What if Aizen doesn't have a bankai and for that he wanted vaizard power?his shikai is beyond everyone else,his kidou are great,his reiatsu it's twice of a normal captain and he still want to reach new high and remove his limits.......so....is there the possibility that for some strange anomaly he can't use bankai???
Kenpachi shikai is a raw sword without any particular power but he is superstrong!!!
I have also some question that are bothering me....
1)Where is in the gaiden the 11th division captain???there's an emergency right now and he didn't show up......
2)How strong Gin can be?graduated in one years,going around killing a third seated officer unnoticed, while byakuya is still playing with a wooden sword(probably he was strong already captain lvl at that age like Hitsugaya,but with a different attitude :-p)...he never show his bankai and in all his fight he never get serious....always toying around!!!not talking about the fact that even Aizen was impressed by him the first time......Aizen!!!the one that fooled all SS!and have u noticed that differently of Tousen,Gin talks to Aizen peer to peer??even joking with him :-p!
3)in the winter war....where are Gin and Tousen?we can see Aizen,and the 3 top espadas....Ulquiorra is in HM.....Gin and Tousen?
4)What is going to do Ishida Ryuken?is he sleeping in Karakura town or is going to fight to protect his city?even if he don't like shinigami,I don't see him betraying the entire human world :-p
5)Shinji told us that he never trusted Aizen so he decided to make him his VC....What Did Aizen do before to be mistrusted by Shinji??
6)Why everyone thinks that Aizen will accuse Urahara?during de desapparition,and during the attack to Kensei and Mashiro he was in Seireitei not in Rukongai...he even rushed to ask to go help Hiyori....do u think that Yamaji,the chamber 46 and the others are so stupid to be fooled like that???Again ABSOLUTE HYPNOSIS???
7)What is going to happen to Ichigo's friend and her sisters in Karakura town?we know that they are in Rukongai and they are all sleeping....but what if they are immune thanks to their spirit/reiatsu level???
8)I want Don Kanonji...........let him fight lool.......my dream????Wonderweiss second student of Don KAnonji......only a fantasy of course :-p!!!!

Jehuty
June 09, 2008, 03:08 AM
^ He could do that with his Shikai though, right? Just hypnotize them into thinking their being tortured.

My theory is that Aizen's Bankai will give him psychic abilities. I shudder to think how he'd use KS if he could read your mind or something. It'd also be a nice departure from the "OMG BIGGER IS BETTER" trend with most Bankai, which has resulted in lots of grossly overscaled powers.
He could fool their senses to see something, but I don't think he could make them think time had slowed down. Aizen's shikai seems to only affect an object, not a surrounding, so much. But with bankai... well, there's that possibility.

someguy0830
June 09, 2008, 03:26 AM
I feel like Aizen's bankai, whatever it is, will either be grossly overpowered or very disappointing. He's already got the cheapest damn shiaki imaginable, such that you'd probably need at least five people just to make sure you weren't beating up an illusion. Short of bringing his illusions to life, which would just be wrong, what could his bankai possibly do to top it?

zet
June 09, 2008, 05:19 AM
Aizen's already over powered lolol mind control would be up his alley I guess, then again Byakuya stated that a Bankai is always enormous/big in size (the reason being that reihatsu pouring out at its max) and ichigo seems to be the oposite so far, so aizen has a big bankai or he's the secound hydrid or something and can do the same things Ichi can.

I cant wait for the fights to start, something tells me aizen is not gonna fight much, he will propably try to go to Rukongai to create the Hou Ken. While in HM we have Ichigo v Ulqui. I think Gin and Tousen might not be in HM but on there way to Rukongai. Aizen might be creating a diversion cause he knew that the town had been swapped yet he went along with it. Of course Urahara could be in the Rukongai, Isshin, Tessai, Ryuuken and lets not forget the power house Don Kanonji are there to save the day. Plus if the almighty Vasto Lords do show up SS still have the Royal Guard, so no biggy ah and the vizards have a score to settle aswell with Aizen so...Aizen better have a plan to defeat all of them guys.

Zeus-Tails
June 09, 2008, 06:18 AM
I can't imagine that Byakuya knows Aizen's bankai, because if SS did then they would know Aizen's true power which they do not. I think Aizen became a captain using the 2nd method: Recommendation.

Tsukisama
June 09, 2008, 07:15 AM
I think the same, at this point of the story aizen seems to be already set in his plans, that would explain at least why shinji was sent there and why the other one wasn't (the one with healing abilities).

No, since Central 46 handles judicial and legislative matters, but the decision to send Shinji and the others over other people like Unohana rests solely with Yamamoto as commander of Gotei 13, whom we know was not in Aizen's pocket.


I really hope we can see tessai in action in the next chapter ^^.

I completely agree. We do not see enough offensive kidou (hadou), and this would be an excellent opportunity for him to use it if he and Urahara are going to engage Aizen, Tousen, and Gin in combat, but I expect that we will more than likely just get more bakudou from him next chapter.


I can't imagine that Byakuya knows Aizen's bankai, because if SS did then they would know Aizen's true power which they do not. I think Aizen became a captain using the 2nd method: Recommendation.

Not necessarily, you have to also remember that everyone was also fooled about the power of his shikai; so, Aizen could have easily also fooled everyone concening his bankai as well.

patedecarne
June 09, 2008, 07:27 AM
I really want to see a fight between Aizen, Tousen and Gin vs Urahara and Tessai, but I don't think it will happen: At least 6 chapters would be needed to see a good fight between them, and the primary focus is explain Vaizard's origins and probably their motivations;

but, if a battle were to happen, my guess is Urahara and Tessai have the upper hand, until now, seems they're not affected by KS, and a effective combination of their power, quickly, could be able to put down Aizen before using any illusion;

lordHokage
June 09, 2008, 09:47 AM
I really want to see a fight between Aizen, Tousen and Gin vs Urahara and Tessai, but I don't think it will happen: At least 6 chapters would be needed to see a good fight between them, and the primary focus is explain Vaizard's origins and probably their motivations;

but, if a battle were to happen, my guess is Urahara and Tessai have the upper hand, until now, seems they're not affected by KS, and a effective combination of their power, quickly, could be able to put down Aizen before using any illusion;


I want to see that fight too but I agree that the primary focus of this mini series was to explain the Vizards origins and Urahara's past. :D

Travis
June 09, 2008, 10:44 AM
I really want to see a fight between Aizen, Tousen and Gin vs Urahara and Tessai, but I don't think it will happen: At least 6 chapters would be needed to see a good fight between them, and the primary focus is explain Vaizard's origins and probably their motivations;

but, if a battle were to happen, my guess is Urahara and Tessai have the upper hand, until now, seems they're not affected by KS, and a effective combination of their power, quickly, could be able to put down Aizen before using any illusion;

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.05/07/

Urahara seems to be under the effects as well. Shinji refers to him as Souske, and Urahara chats with fake "Souske" about the bodies. I doubt Urahara would play along with it and send Hiyori into danger like that if he knew what Aizen was up to. It would seem kind of stupid.

dreamzsai
June 09, 2008, 11:07 AM
Theory in Mind:

1. Urahara fights Aizen got affected by "whatever is affecting Shinji and Co." sometime through the battle, and starts going "Hollow" as well.
2. The "victims" manage to get their Hollows under control.
3. Something happens, maybe Soul Society sent people here and the situation has gone out of Urahara's control, knowing Aizen's Shikai abilities could make him a "criminal" to the others, Urahara and Tessai gets out of there and the fight ends.
4. Shinji and Co gets exiled, for some reason, but Urahara is not implicated into the case.
5. It seems that the process they went through has "side-effects" (perhaps the "Hollow" pops back randomly or something, like Ichigo's case), so Urahara starts R&D for a "cure", which ends up producing the Hougyoku.

Well, might be kinda flawed, but that's what i think might be happening...

Anyway, Aizen's Shikai is already pretty cheap.... Well, actually it's very cheap, so cheap that i don't even wanna think about what his Bankai could be, it's probably so overpowered that it's boring....

Jehuty
June 09, 2008, 11:20 AM
Theory in Mind:

1. Urahara fights Aizen got affected by "whatever is affecting Shinji and Co." sometime through the battle, and starts going "Hollow" as well.
2. The "victims" manage to get their Hollows under control.
3. Something happens, maybe Soul Society sent people here and the situation has gone out of Urahara's control, knowing Aizen's Shikai abilities could make him a "criminal" to the others, Urahara and Tessai gets out of there and the fight ends.
4. Shinji and Co gets exiled, for some reason, but Urahara is not implicated into the case.
5. It seems that the process they went through has "side-effects" (perhaps the "Hollow" pops back randomly or something, like Ichigo's case), so Urahara starts R&D for a "cure", which ends up producing the Hougyoku.

Well, might be kinda flawed, but that's what i think might be happening...

Anyway, Aizen's Shikai is already pretty cheap.... Well, actually it's very cheap, so cheap that i don't even wanna think about what his Bankai could be, it's probably so overpowered that it's boring....
Huh. You know, I never thought of that... what if Urahara created the Hougyoku not to hollowize or shinigami-ize, but to reverse the effects? He might've seen what happened with the Vizards and wanted to help them. Then, when he realized that the Hougyoku could also do the aforementioned things, he sealed it away in fear.

ryanzokuken
June 09, 2008, 01:24 PM
3)in the winter war....where are Gin and Tousen?we can see Aizen,and the 3 top espadas....Ulquiorra is in HM.....Gin and Tousen?


Gin and Tousen are in fake karakura town with Aizen. they're behind him. you can see them back behind him in the dark opening.

top 3 espada, Aizen, Gin, and Tousen--they're all there.

patedecarne
June 09, 2008, 01:51 PM
Hougyoku is a very powerful tool, and so far we don't know its true powers: it could has more uses than just break the barrier between Shinigami and Hollow;

And could be very possible that Urahara already has Hougyoku in his hand: At this point, where 8 people are in the middle of some kind of transformation never seen before in SS(at least I think), everything could be useful to prevent more damage;

And another thing bothers me: If Shinji is becoming a hollow throught unknown reasons(could be a virus), then Urahara will be affected as well..

shinokun
June 09, 2008, 01:59 PM
If Urahara knew all this time about Aizen and Co, wouldn't he tell someone?

There has to be an instance where perhaps Urahara and Tessai gets their memories wiped.

Tsukisama
June 09, 2008, 03:34 PM
If Urahara knew all this time about Aizen and Co, wouldn't he tell someone?

There has to be an instance where perhaps Urahara and Tessai gets their memories wiped.

One would hope, but given how ludicrous and convenient it would be Aizen to suddenly have the power to manipulate memories (please don't let this be part of his bankai, Kubo) and how incredulous some of his other plot devices have been (he even admits to just throwing stuff in between the parts he has planned out (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=897883#post897883)), this could easily be another one of those moments that we just have to accept as part of the story even though it sounds pretty sketchy.

Like many have proposed, I could see Kubo going the frame-Urahara route, where no one listens to him and for some inexplicable reason everyone in SS forgets Urahara's statement, acting completely shocked that Aizen could ever do something as treacherous as he does do 100 years in the future while Urahara for even more inexplicable reasons neglects to warn Ichigo of anything. :blink

gold349
June 09, 2008, 03:37 PM
If Urahara knew all this time about Aizen and Co, wouldn't he tell someone?

There has to be an instance where perhaps Urahara and Tessai gets their memories wiped.



Urahara probably tried his best to defend his honour and reputation and probably did warn SS, out of everyone there who looks the most suspicious? Urahara does, firstly he sends his own VC out alone then arrives there in this raincoat/jacket all in black which masks his rietsu, who wouldn't think Urahara is suspicious, especially once eighth division captain confirms Aizens alibi that he was in his quarters. Who will side with Urahara?, people like tesai, yourichi and co, that could be put down to friendship covering or sticking for one another, who knows what explanation Kubo will give for SS not believing Urahara.

C4animax
June 09, 2008, 07:34 PM
What if Aizen doesn't have a bankai and for that he wanted vaizard power?his shikai is beyond everyone else,his kidou are great,his reiatsu it's twice of a normal captain and he still want to reach new high and remove his limits.......so....is there the possibility that for some strange anomaly he can't use bankai???
Kenpachi shikai is a raw sword without any particular power but he is superstrong!!!
1)Where is in the gaiden the 11th division captain???there's an emergency right now and he didn't show up......
5)Shinji told us that he never trusted Aizen so he decided to make him his VC....What Did Aizen do before to be mistrusted by Shinji??


You can't compare aizen and kempachi, the latest fight for the pleasure of figthing, no need of extra seasoning, he just need blood, cut or be cut to make his life enjoyable and that's just a matter of who will have the most destructive swing in reserve, aizen need to be on the top at any cost.

1) I re-read the chapters and it seems that kempachi was holding the title of 11 th captain (i can be wrong) meaning that he probably doesn't care about this ( enemy isn't interesting enough?).
5) Eavesdropping, too much interest in things like royal guard...even shensui was suspicious of him, they don't need more to be in alert :D.


I feel like Aizen's bankai, whatever it is, will either be grossly overpowered or very disappointing. He's already got the cheapest damn shiaki imaginable, such that you'd probably need at least five people just to make sure you weren't beating up an illusion. Short of bringing his illusions to life, which would just be wrong, what could his bankai possibly do to top it?

Haha true about overpower or disapointment (i still have room to kubo's surprise), what if ichigo's speed were to match the speed of aizen's shikai? I mean his illusion are not invincible...so he must have a bankai...i could see urahara's bankai to neggate others bankai, living me magic trick and mister semi visard ichigo fighting. (would be boring though)


http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.05/07/

Urahara seems to be under the effects as well. Shinji refers to him as Souske, and Urahara chats with fake "Souske" about the bodies. I doubt Urahara would play along with it and send Hiyori into danger like that if he knew what Aizen was up to. It would seem kind of stupid.

one thing i wonder is : did the story tell us when the changement has been done, if it was from the begining or not? Urahara could have been talking to sousuke's replacement from the very start and finding a new person on the crime scene. "waitaminute, you ain't bold."



2. The "victims" manage to get their Hollows under control.
4. Shinji and Co gets exiled, for some reason, but Urahara is not implicated into the case.
5. It seems that the process they went through has "side-effects" (perhaps the "Hollow" pops back randomly or something, like Ichigo's case), so Urahara starts R&D for a "cure", which ends up producing the Hougyoku.

nyway, Aizen's Shikai is already pretty cheap.... Well, actually it's very cheap, so cheap that i don't even wanna think about what his Bankai could be, it's probably so overpowered that it's boring....

I'd go with number 2, 4 and 5, with slight modification, instead of being exiled, commander in chief yamato would lock all of them in the prison that was introduced at the begining. Then after stabilizing them urahara would probably try to make them free and was banned for doing so. (yeah you know it's SS stuborn rules)

Another alternative is that aizen sent hollows to start a war in SS to create a diversion, then he'd just create an illusion to make them believe that nothing happened...cheap, did you say cheap :D?

Saifi
June 09, 2008, 07:39 PM
Also, just wanted to note that if it weren't for Urahara and Tessai showing up when they did, Ichigo would have been the only vaizard in the series since Aizen woulda killed them all.

why would aizen kill them when they are in hollow form and will probably be wiped out by SS ? i think he would have just left them be , i bet he sliced up hiyori to piss shinji off ! I think that Urahara will realize that there is no way he can implicate Aizen since he has a rock solid alibi. Plus he was probably short on time with SS forces approaching and they would undoubtedly want to try and kill the hollows.So after Aizen leaves with his smirk , saying something like " i would stay but this is too bothersome" Urahara and tessai take the "hollow captains" to R & D or the underground training area he and yoroichi have (i am thinking the later to conceal all the inner hollow fights) he has tessai bind them with kidou while he somehow figures out how to save them. He uses the experimental hogyuku to dissolve the barrier between hollow and shinigami so they can regain more of a conscience. They have their inner hollow fights and tessai / urahara and yourichi stand by / contain them. By this time all of SS suspects urahara , probably with a little prodding by Aizen, who probably acted like a boy scout in front of them.

so urahara uses his gigai to allow the now vaizards to escape to the human world, and this is found out by aizen who accuses urahara of helping hollows and urahara is exiled.

-------

heck aizen could have sat back done nothing and let gin do the talking so he is not even noticed and any implication of him would come from left field.


I think people are missing the point here. Aizen seems to deem Vaizards as failures. There could be one giant flaw we haven't seen yet that only he knows about. Why would he continue to experiment, like he did on Kaien Shiba, if the Vaizards are the peak of Shinigami and Hollow hybrids?

I dont think Aizen deems vaizards as failures , i think he deems captains turning hollows as a failure, he sees the genius in urahara reviving them to make them "perfect"

ShaunMati1
June 09, 2008, 09:13 PM
I also dont think he deems them as failures i just think that these group of vaizards just got away from his thats all. If u ask "then why does he keep testing and not just do what he did now"? Well im sure he was just waiting for the right time to obtain the hougyoku and do it with that. And if he caused another scene like this then he would be accused (aizen).

On another note, i wonder who came up with the name "vaizards" isshin called them masked solders. And if im not mistaken i heard the same thing during this gaiden arc. I wonder who game them that name. I predict next chapter we will see alot of dialog between Urahara and Aizen and i hope we get ALOT of it, i hate when chapters go by quick.

hajialibaig
June 09, 2008, 10:10 PM
i wonder who came up with the name "vaizards"

I believe it was Shinji who called himself a vaizard, when he met Ichigo

Edit: Found the quote: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/185/10/

And looking at another translation of the above page, it seems that Vaizard means "Masked Soldier". Link: http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-185-page-10.html

I recommend reading bleach manga on bleachexile.com, much better picture quality

redcometfm
June 09, 2008, 10:19 PM
Vaizard is latin I believe.

Doombot
June 09, 2008, 11:35 PM
I dont think Aizen deems vaizards as failures , i think he deems captains turning hollows as a failure, he sees the genius in urahara reviving them to make them "perfect"


We don't even know if Urahara even does that. For all we know they will return to normal exactly like Ichigo did.

Boagrious
June 10, 2008, 12:40 AM
If Urahara knew all this time about Aizen and Co, wouldn't he tell someone?

There has to be an instance where perhaps Urahara and Tessai gets their memories wiped.

To perhaps reveal the identities of Aizen's helpers. He knew Aizen was not gonna be able to do all that alone, he was probably waiting for him to show himself accompanied by his helper, and what happened JACKPOT!!!, he got Aizen with not only one helper but 2. Now all I want to see is da showdown between them.

And about Urahara and Tessai getting their minds wiped out, I think there's no way that if all the Vizards are there, Urahara is not gonna have the chance to rescue them all from the grasps of Aizen and crew. I think that he will rescue them take them to karakura and hide them. The only way I see that happening is because every single person that's in there beated up, is now in Karakura, even the non Vizards. Tell me what u think?

hyn_pride93
June 10, 2008, 03:08 AM
I think that Urahara and Tessai ALONG with Yoruichi, end up taking the "fallen few" to a safe place before they go to KT. Mainly the training area that Urahara has a replica of in his basement. Yoruichi did say that Urahara had created it when he was in SS. And to top things off he probably healed them up in that hot spring "tub" that Ichigo used during his bankai training. I think that's one of the reasons why that place has never been discovered before. Excluding the time wen Renji crashed in for his training. And that was because Ichigos reiatsu was everywhere.

Well, ya. I totally think that Urahara and Yoruichi were hiding the fallen shinigami (vizards) and healing them in that water while Tessai helped to mask their reiatsu of the area along with the help of an invention from Urahara

PredakingD78
June 10, 2008, 03:17 AM
I'm slowly beginimg to think that Urahara may not have been exiled from SS, as we have been lead to believe.

Umbra Wolf
June 10, 2008, 05:47 AM
Vaizard is latin I believe.
Vaizard is a pun. First it should sound like "visored (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visor)". That's pretty self-explanationary. Second it should remind of "wizards" because of all this "forbidden technique" stuff they're ought to you.

Neuroff
June 10, 2008, 06:44 AM
The word is vizard, which can mean mask. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vizard&x=0&y=0

munafn
June 10, 2008, 10:21 AM
i think next chapter we may get to see urahara's bankai.What better chance would he have than this to release. Unless KT wants to keep it a secret and reveal it at the big battle..Im thinking something destructive...sort of like kurenai from flame of recca if any of u are familiar with that.

Ruissu
June 10, 2008, 10:29 AM
i belive itll be something like this:

urahara starts fighting aizen, but sudenlly he too, starts transforming into a hollow (why not? everyone close to aizen did so) and tessai to. they end up uncoscious and fighting in they're inner world.

when all of they wake up they are in the maggots lair and aizen was the one who found them (kind a like eleminating the proofs by throwing them out of SS)

Travis
June 10, 2008, 10:41 AM
one thing i wonder is : did the story tell us when the changement has been done, if it was from the begining or not? Urahara could have been talking to sousuke's replacement from the very start and finding a new person on the crime scene. "waitaminute, you ain't bold."

Aizen says to Shinji that he hasn't been following him for the past month in chapter -99. So the Aizen that was following Shinji and told Urahara about the disappearing people in Rukogni (can't remember spelling for that word) was the fake Aizen. I don't know what you mean by bold.

bladehappy
June 10, 2008, 12:22 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.05/07/

Urahara seems to be under the effects as well. Shinji refers to him as Souske, and Urahara chats with fake "Souske" about the bodies. I doubt Urahara would play along with it and send Hiyori into danger like that if he knew what Aizen was up to. It would seem kind of stupid.

I disagree. It would explain a lot to why he is worrying a lot more than Shun(Which could also explain Shun's suspicions.), and knowing Urahara, he likes to screw around when it comes to some things . And even if Urahara is under the effects, I don't think Tessai is, which is self explanatory.

stepsa
June 10, 2008, 12:32 PM
i belive itll be something like this:

urahara starts fighting aizen, but sudenlly he too, starts transforming into a hollow (why not? everyone close to aizen did so) and tessai to. they end up uncoscious and fighting in they're inner world.

when all of they wake up they are in the maggots lair and aizen was the one who found them (kind a like eleminating the proofs by throwing them out of SS)

i like your theory, i was thinking something along those lines 2, but it still leaves us with a big questions, why would Urahara send Ichigo to SS if he knew about Aizen, and what about hogyoku, did Urahara already finish it?

i think the next chapter might be a long talk between the 2 of em about hogyoku if this is the case :D

walkie
June 10, 2008, 12:33 PM
just look at urahara's face guys:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7563/91459577by2.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=91459577by2.jpg)

does it seem like a man who is going to attack?? i think urahara is still under effect, even attacking right there. aizen shoud releases the effect off from only vaizards, otherewise people at soul society can understand aizen is not at SS.

so here is my prediction:
Urahara cant clearly see aizen or smthng like that he is just attacking instincly, attacking according to voice of aizen may be or he kinda sensed aizen reiatsu so attacking towards that reiatsu, but not with clear view... under normal circumtances i think urahara and his friend (couldnt remember his name) can handdle those three right there but they r still feeling some effects of hypnosis, so they will not fight as they wish, instead of fighting they will take their friends and escape because they will not want to loose them, become completely hollow...and aizen will easly return to SS and will belame them for what happened.

shinokun
June 10, 2008, 01:15 PM
We still need to know why Urahara needed Kurotshuchi Mayuri to service him. Almost as he know something was going to happen to him, so he would take lead.

ryanzokuken
June 10, 2008, 01:36 PM
i doubt Urahara will begin transforming unless he is attacked and wounded.

seems that everyone is fine until they have an open wound.

darkband
June 10, 2008, 02:48 PM
@ryanzokuken: I totally agree, it seems like they only start tranforming once they are cut.

As for the question of whether or not Urahara and Tessai are under hypnosis, I think that they aren't quite yet. Also Tessai doesn't appear much in public, so when would Aizen have had oppurtunity to put him under hypnosis? I think that during this battle thay will become effected by it. Or maybe Urahara is already effected, but has found a way to break the hypnosis, afterall he is one of the smartest guys in all of Soul Society, in both technology and techniques.

Yans86
June 10, 2008, 03:13 PM
I think that with two chapters the gaiden will end.....Moreover I want u to notice that instead of what Urahara said about the gigai story...actually he was exiled in the maggot nest after the vizardification history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did not u remember what Soi Fon said about Yoruichi and her betrayal???? http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/15/

Tsukisama
June 10, 2008, 03:22 PM
i think next chapter we may get to see urahara's bankai.What better chance would he have than this to release. Unless KT wants to keep it a secret and reveal it at the big battle..Im thinking something destructive...sort of like kurenai from flame of recca if any of u are familiar with that.

A new, long-awaited bankai revealed in the gaiden? Rather doubtful. Like many others, I don't think this fight will last that long nor do I believe Kubo would reveal something as big (and unnecessary to make this interesting, since he pretty much already has us hooked with them fighting at all) right now. When Urahara arrives in the present ready for action, then we will undoubtedly see some bankai action.

darkband
June 10, 2008, 06:03 PM
Yes, we definately need some Urahara Bankai action back in the present. He would probably use it on no one less than Aizen, and somehow counter Aizen's long history of ultimate ownage and actually make him fight instead of play. That's assuming Old man Yama doesn't do it first. It would be funny if Aizen turned out to be a reallyinsecure person were his shikai broken.

As for the next chapter, I think that Aizen and Urahara will chat it up a bit, spar a bit, and Aizen will decide that he shouldn't stick around and mess with Urahara, who can actually fight with him since he won't be caught off guard cheaply like all of the Vizards.

iamsmurf
June 10, 2008, 09:58 PM
it was a good chapter.. a bit dragging wasted lots of pages for a conversation which is same things all over... IMO, if im ryt (the negative numbers) i think bleach is nearing its end.. -98 to 0 maybe..

darkband
June 10, 2008, 10:31 PM
No, the negative numbers only signify that it was way in the past. Since the Gaiden started with 110 years before the current action. It started at -108, and I don't know why he didn't just start at -110, but close enough. Anyway you're right that the chapter didn't do much except let Aizen gloat. And on page 20 we see the beginning of Hachi's mask which we haven't seen before. Not much but still a bit of the mask.

bladehappy
June 10, 2008, 10:49 PM
I noticed Aizen was forced to dash away from Urahara instead of block his attack.

bittman
June 10, 2008, 11:01 PM
You should also notice Urahara was still wearing his reiatsu hiding cloak, so it's only natural Aizen did not see it coming from a mile off like he usually sees things.

After this, I'm beginning to think Urahara's exile was forced by Aizen manipulating the Gotei and Yoroichi and Tessai believed Uruhara over Aizen.

Jehuty
June 10, 2008, 11:05 PM
Someone mentioned a few posts back that the Hougyoku might not have been created for the purpose of hollowizing or shinigami-izing, but to cure shinigami turned into Hollows, like the Vizard.

How about this? Let's look at what we know.

-Present day, Aizen said that he made various attempts at hybridization: Hollows who could hide reiatsu, Hollows who could devour Zanpakutou/take over spirit bodies, etc., but said these were all failures.
-Aizen does something to the future Vizards which turns them into Hollows and deems them failures as well.
-The Vizards knew all about the Hougyoku, the Arrancar, and Aizen Sousuke, long before Ichigo jumped onto the stage. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/13/)
-They also knew about Ichigo's growth as a Shinigami. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/14/)

I wondered a few things about the above. Did Aizen operate on Hollow biology, manipulating it to gain the various powers? Did the Vizards have an informant in Soul Society, or were they secretly tailing Ichigo? It all seemed disjointed.

Until Urahara Kisuke.

Yes, Urahara, the man at what seems now to be the center of everything makes another web of connections. My theory/prediction? Aizen (obviously) walks away from here, but he thinks that the future Vizards are done for. He calls them failures because they're not hybrids. They're just Hollows, albeit Hollows made from captain-class Shinigami. Urahara, figuring he needs to help, creates the Hougyoku and makes our future Vizards into actual Vizards. After realizing what sort of devastation the Hougyoku could wreak, he seals it away. He gives them untraceable gigai to get them out of Soul Society and takes the heat for it, with Yoruichi later helping him and possibly them across the border.

But Urahara defines the Vizards as shinigami who have used illegal methods to gain Hollow powers, implying that at some point, something legal rebounded against them. I dunno what, but likely, Aizen fabricated some evidence to make him completely innocent. After all, how could a lowly lieutenant take on several other lieutenant- and captain-class figures?

So we come to present day. Urahara realizes he can use Kurosaki Ichigo to go and retrieve the Hougyoku or at least definitively out Aizen as a traitor. He gives him shinigami powers, but before they can fully manifest, the Hollow mask surfaces. So Urahara calls out to the people he knows who know like no one else what it is to live with and control a Hollow: the Vizards, and keeps them informed on Ichigo's astounding progress.

That's how the Vizard are so well-informed, almost as much as Urahara himself. But either Soul Society doesn't know about the Vizards, or they do, and the Vizards keep well hidden. Hitsugaya figures that with ten Vasto Lordes, Aizen could crush Soul Society, but he didn't mention the Vizards at all. Perhaps it's because he's new, or perhaps it's because the Arrancar seemed to be a more pressing matter. But either way, it doesn't seem the Vizards are on Soul Society's mind. Likewise, it seems as though Aizen is focusing only on Soul Society. This means that the Vizards could end up being a wildcard in this game.

If so, the captains will likely start to lose against their Arrancar opponents until the Vizards show up to ruin some people's days. And what was it Aizen said? "The betrayal you can see is trivial. What is truly fearsome is the betrayal you don't see."

darkband
June 10, 2008, 11:20 PM
The Betrayal that you don't see. Yeah Jehuty, it would be awesome if Shinji changed that line a little and gave it right back to Aizen in present day. And I could totally see your theory about how the Vizard are so well informed with Urahara keeping them informed. Imagine Aizen's expression though when he finds out they are alive and kickin' his butt if he doesn't think they are alive.

ShaunMati1
June 10, 2008, 11:41 PM
Someone mentioned a few posts back that the Hougyoku might not have been created for the purpose of hollowizing or shinigami-izing, but to cure shinigami turned into Hollows, like the Vizard.

How about this? Let's look at what we know.

-Present day, Aizen said that he made various attempts at hybridization: Hollows who could hide reiatsu, Hollows who could devour Zanpakutou/take over spirit bodies, etc., but said these were all failures.
-Aizen does something to the future Vizards which turns them into Hollows and deems them failures as well.
-The Vizards knew all about the Hougyoku, the Arrancar, and Aizen Sousuke, long before Ichigo jumped onto the stage. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/13/)
-They also knew about Ichigo's growth as a Shinigami. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/14/)

I wondered a few things about the above. Did Aizen operate on Hollow biology, manipulating it to gain the various powers? Did the Vizards have an informant in Soul Society, or were they secretly tailing Ichigo? It all seemed disjointed.

Until Urahara Kisuke.

Yes, Urahara, the man at what seems now to be the center of everything makes another web of connections. My theory/prediction? Aizen (obviously) walks away from here, but he thinks that the future Vizards are done for. He calls them failures because they're not hybrids. They're just Hollows, albeit Hollows made from captain-class Shinigami. Urahara, figuring he needs to help, creates the Hougyoku and makes our future Vizards into actual Vizards. After realizing what sort of devastation the Hougyoku could wreak, he seals it away. He gives them untraceable gigai to get them out of Soul Society and takes the heat for it, with Yoruichi later helping him and possibly them across the border.

But Urahara defines the Vizards as shinigami who have used illegal methods to gain Hollow powers, implying that at some point, something legal rebounded against them. I dunno what, but likely, Aizen fabricated some evidence to make him completely innocent. After all, how could a lowly lieutenant take on several other lieutenant- and captain-class figures?

So we come to present day. Urahara realizes he can use Kurosaki Ichigo to go and retrieve the Hougyoku or at least definitively out Aizen as a traitor. He gives him shinigami powers, but before they can fully manifest, the Hollow mask surfaces. So Urahara calls out to the people he knows who know like no one else what it is to live with and control a Hollow: the Vizards, and keeps them informed on Ichigo's astounding progress.

That's how the Vizard are so well-informed, almost as much as Urahara himself. But either Soul Society doesn't know about the Vizards, or they do, and the Vizards keep well hidden. Hitsugaya figures that with ten Vasto Lordes, Aizen could crush Soul Society, but he didn't mention the Vizards at all. Perhaps it's because he's new, or perhaps it's because the Arrancar seemed to be a more pressing matter. But either way, it doesn't seem the Vizards are on Soul Society's mind. Likewise, it seems as though Aizen is focusing only on Soul Society. This means that the Vizards could end up being a wildcard in this game.

If so, the captains will likely start to lose against their Arrancar opponents until the Vizards show up to ruin some people's days. And what was it Aizen said? "The betrayal you can see is trivial. What is truly fearsome is the betrayal you don't see."

I like and agree with what ur saying. I also thought that urahara was informing the vaizards, i just wanna know how does isshin know all about it also. As for that quote the vaizards coming into the fight wouldnt be such a betrayal, but that quote might have some forshadowing. Such as someone from aizens side defecting. I always thought no matter how loyal ulquiorra seemed to be he might have other motives. I dont know if we will see something like that just because it might seem a bit one sided, although kubo made Aizen way too strong. Ichigo always has some way of making his enemys figure him out. Like at the end of the ichigo and byakuya fight, where byak admits that ichi wasnt his enemy all along he was just fighting the rules. What im getting at is that ichigo might be able to show ulquiorra the "light" if u may. And it doesnt have to be a betrayal where ulquiorra joins SS it could be merely losing to ichigo and not do anything else, say if Aizen calls upon him ulquiorra wont respond. That in my mind, is the ultimate betrayal. Outside of Gin and Tousen, ulqui is trusted by aizen, and who was trusted by shinji 101 years ago....AIZEN

GOOMOONRYONG
June 11, 2008, 12:37 AM
i never thought about that one line that aizen said about betrayal but like you guys said there is probably a good chance that someone on aizens side is working as a "double agent" or will have a change of heart in the future. I've wondered about this for some time but i think it would be really cool if Ichigo and co got grown up Nel to fight with them since she seems to be so damn badass, and since she was number 3 im going to guess that halibel was her replacement as the 3rd espada just my thoughts anyway

bittman
June 11, 2008, 01:36 AM
Gin is still the possible betrayer, but as it is the sides are too imbalanced with:
3 espada (+ their useless fraccion) + 3 ex-captains
vs
6 captains (+ their slightly useful vice captains) + Uruhara & friends + Vizards
[count does not include HM forces which is 2 vs 7-9 captain level people]

Books don't balance, and bleach has become notorious for it's 1-1 battles with very rare exceptions. I expect something unexpected must happen to unbalance these books (such as Vizards actually being a side of their own), but the flashback seems to just make the books more and more imbalanced. IMO, Aizen/Tousen/Gin beating everyone would be lame.

ryanzokuken
June 11, 2008, 05:08 AM
I like and agree with what ur saying. I also thought that urahara was informing the vaizards, i just wanna know how does isshin know all about it also. As for that quote the vaizards coming into the fight wouldnt be such a betrayal, but that quote might have some forshadowing. Such as someone from aizens side defecting. I always thought no matter how loyal ulquiorra seemed to be he might have other motives. I dont know if we will see something like that just because it might seem a bit one sided, although kubo made Aizen way too strong. Ichigo always has some way of making his enemys figure him out. Like at the end of the ichigo and byakuya fight, where byak admits that ichi wasnt his enemy all along he was just fighting the rules. What im getting at is that ichigo might be able to show ulquiorra the "light" if u may. And it doesnt have to be a betrayal where ulquiorra joins SS it could be merely losing to ichigo and not do anything else, say if Aizen calls upon him ulquiorra wont respond. That in my mind, is the ultimate betrayal. Outside of Gin and Tousen, ulqui is trusted by aizen, and who was trusted by shinji 101 years ago....AIZEN


i think if any of the Espada, or hollow at all, will become a "good guy", it will be Grimmjow.

i can very easily see him becoming the Vegeta to Ichigo's Goku.

the foundation for such has already been laid. i won't get into Ichigo and Grimm's whole relationship, everyone doesn't need an explanation on that, but look at how Grimm is with his own side. he always has a rebelious attitude. and we've seen that he has a clear dislike for ulquiorra and tousen. and the only reason he respects and obeys Aizen is out of fear and knowing that he has no choice. he's even shot Aizen a couple disdainful looks, right in the eye. and he has no friends amongst the Espada. the only people who were ever close to being friends to him, Shawlong and the others of that group, are dead.

if Grimm isn't dead already (he's been laying there for a while now after having been defeated by Ichigo and further abused by Noitora) then i see him being healed by someone (Orihime is at the tower with Ulquiorra, so more likely it will be Unohana, before or after she kicks Yammy's ass) and i'm thinking he'll probably show up and help Ichigo against Ulquiorra. it would be some good drama and it would fit for Grimm and Ulq's constantly negative and unstable relationship. plus we all know that Ichigo will need help, unless he goes into his full hollow form or something. and who else is there to help him? Kenpachi and Byakuya are both in rough condition, Mayuri is ok, but still, like the other two, he's had his fight, and i doubt any of them will get extra action here. same for Chad, Ishida, Renji, and Rukia. all in bad shape, plus have already had their fights against the Espada. Unohana is said to have an upcoming fight of her own, which i assume is against Yammy. Grimmjow would be perfect.

hell, maybe he doesn't even need to be healed. maybe he'll get up and stumble his broken ass to the tower and arrive just in time to catch Ulq off gaurd as he's overwhelming Ichigo and give him a devastating attack with a cero or something, which would of course, as Anime law dictates, drain that last bit of his power and he'd have a dramatic line and drop. :P

defaultizzle
June 11, 2008, 10:49 AM
looking back at chapter 188(http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/188/08/), where isshin and urahara are having their little discussion, the feeling i get is that urahara and the vizards are estranged...isshin says "just as you predicted", which suggests that urahara's not very privy to what the vizards are doing.

i'm guessing the vizards and urahara split paths after their exile because of their stand towards SS. the vizards are probably still bitter against SS for viewing them as criminals who illegally attained hollow powers (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/188/09) while urahara, as can be seen from the recent chapters where yama-ji ordered him to open garganta and do that mass K-Town transfer thingamajig, is probably still aligned to SS somewhat.

what's my point? my point's that the winter battle's not gonna be a straightforward SS + vizard vs arrancar sort of battle. for all we know, aizen's group could be defeated really early on only for the vizards to turn on SS, who are gonna need help from urahara's group (including ryuuken and isshin and the high schoolers who are sympathetic towards SS).

AND THEN AIZEN APPEARS AGAIN FOR THE ULTIMATE BATTLE where he's a tendoujigoku sort of hybrid-thing. andthenichigobeatshimwiththepoweroflove.

hyn_pride93
June 11, 2008, 03:40 PM
AND THEN AIZEN APPEARS AGAIN FOR THE ULTIMATE BATTLE where he's a tendoujigoku sort of hybrid-thing. andthenichigobeatshimwiththepoweroflove.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! That's so funny because that's what'll happen most likely. That's how it always ends. With the main character defeating the main enemy with the power of love. I think that Urahara, Ryuuken, and the Vaizards were all exiled because of the events that happened. But I don't think that Yoruichi was exiled. I think that she left to help out Urahara and Ryuuken because she didn't want to leave them behind.

and I'm not sure if this was clarified or not, but I think that Yoruichi was able to escape without anything knowing that she left was due to her cat form. I think that when she is in her cat form she is able to cloak some of her reiatsu. oh wait, I think that could be possible because Yachiru didn't sense Yoruichi's reiatsu... unless Ichigo is stronger than Yoruichi, which is totally possible

Jehuty
June 11, 2008, 03:43 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! That's so funny because that's what'll happen most likely. That's how it always ends. With the main character defeating the main enemy with the power of love. I think that Urahara, Ryuuken, and the Vaizards were all exiled because of the events that happened. But I don't think that Yoruichi was exiled. I think that she left to help out Urahara and Ryuuken because she didn't want to leave them behind.

and I'm not sure if this was clarified or not, but I think that Yoruichi was able to escape without anything knowing that she left was due to her cat form. I think that when she is in her cat form she is able to cloak some of her reiatsu. oh wait, I think that could be possible because Yachiru didn't sense Yoruichi's reiatsu... unless Ichigo is stronger than Yoruichi, which is totally possible
Whether she's stronger or not, Ichigo's reiatsu is blaring. He can't contain it. That'd make it much easier to sense.

hyn_pride93
June 11, 2008, 03:52 PM
Whether she's stronger or not, Ichigo's reiatsu is blaring. He can't contain it. That'd make it much easier to sense.

True. But there has to be some explanation to why she left and no one could find her. I have no doubt that Urahara had assisted her with the hiding of her reiatsu. aftrer all, she did say that she was in her cat form and free from fighting for a sh** load of years.:tem

Boagrious
June 12, 2008, 01:47 AM
Don't forget Ichigo's dad, Where is he?, I wonder...

hyn_pride93
June 12, 2008, 04:36 AM
I bet that Isshin is the supposed to be deceased eleventh captain. Or he has something to do with it.

Tsukisama
June 12, 2008, 02:05 PM
I bet that Isshin is the supposed to be deceased eleventh captain. Or he has something to do with it.

Are you referring to the deceased 9th Kenpachi, or are you referring to the deceased captain of the 10th division?

hyn_pride93
June 12, 2008, 11:29 PM
Are you referring to the deceased 9th Kenpachi, or are you referring to the deceased captain of the 10th division?

yikes my bad, i wasnt even thinking when i posted that. i think i was a little naturally high. cant really blame me, O'ahu is so bleh. i cant take the heat.

but anyway, i was referring to the deceased captain of the 10th division. thanks for helping me clear that up TSUKI. i knew it had to be the 11th or the 10th.:tem