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patedecarne
June 15, 2008, 12:01 AM
Hi, friends! After the last busy week, I'm back with another review: this one wasn't made in hurry, because this week was somehow light to me, then I had enough time to write this review, and this is a long one, but this chapter has so many details that it deserves some detailed analysis! Let's go:


The scanlation Used is from Binktopia


Naruto 404 - "Hawk" and "Akatsuki"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/Naruto4041.jpg
And we're still trying to guess, my friend...




The chapter begins with a meeting between Tobi and Kisame, and Kisame really didn't know that Tobi wasn't just a ordinary member of Akatsuki, and still thought he was dead from that explosion caused by Deidara. Regarding his fight against Suigetsu, from what Kisame said and I understood, I'd risk to say Zetsu was the one who stopped his fight. Well, one point about the time skip seems to be explained, and from now probably Kisame could be well used in some future fight, he has the greatest amount of chakra among the akatsuki members, and would be such a waste not to show his true potential in a serious fight. And judging by his reactions here, seems Kisame doesn't know the truth about Itachi, even being his partner in Akatsuki. Knowing Itachi, I wouldn't be surprised if somehow Kisame was aware from his plans, and even Kisame could be part of the plan, though I don't think he would help Naruto and co. But Kishimoto is being so unpredictable that we cannot discard any possibility from now.

And let the surprises begin: After the initial explanations, Tobi shows his face to Kisame, and surprising, Kisame recognizes him as the Mizukage! Sure is was unexpected, but some questions are poping from now: A Kage is a well known and respected leader in the five main countries, and if by chance Tobi ruled in the mist country without his mask, wouldn't be Konoha aware from a sharingan user controlling a entire country? My guess is Tobi was using something to hide the face, just like when Orochimaru was pretending to be the Kazekage. But at least, in the mist country, I think the people know about Madara, as Kisame said: he knew that Tobi was Madara. Probably after his fight with Hashirama, he went to another country. And with the time, I'm more certain that Tobi is someone we know, Kishimoto is doing a great job in his identity aspect that would be weird if he was a new character: two times he already show some parts of his face, and I think it's a move to keep us wondering about which person could be behind the mask, and a new one wouldn't fit with the development so far.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/naruto4042.jpg
It's everything but a happy meeting, believe me...




Finally we can see some more from Naruto after all, and I must say I'm very grateful to see how Kishimoto settled the environment: Finally the truth about Jiraya will be told, and I'm really curious to see how Naruto will react to this. First, Kakashi told to Naruto to meet Tsunade in her office, and seems he already knows what happened. Then, Naruto sees Gamabunta in Konoha, and probably, Naruto already noticed that something happened. And finally, to see all of his comrades together could be really a bad omen.

Wht I really liked here is how Kishimoto was building everything to prepare Naruto to the shocking revelation: Again, using real life examples, when someone really closes to you dies, usually you're the last one to know: The atmospehere is getting sad, and the people won't go directly to the point, but instead they're trying to prepare you. Exactly what Tsunade and Pa frog did in the chapter. Even P with a little joke about Jiraya: a funny moment before the sad news. If I were to say just one word, it would be brilliant...

And Tsunade was just perfect too: She was too close to Jiraya, and still, she didn't cry or showed another emotion but sadness. She being a perfect example for a Hokage: if she were to show any strong emotions here, her role as Hokage could be affected, because, in ninja laws, I don't think a hokage showing emotions is a good thing, but yet, she's bearing too much right now. Probably alone she'll be broken, but not now, not in this moment. I was expecting a good drama here, and I cannot complain about it, only great...




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/naruto4043.jpg
Forget Sasuke, Naruto, and become a true ninja from now




Pa frog already said the prophecy to Tsunade: I wasn't expecting to see it mentioned now, but probably Tsunade, with so much sadness, asked about the circunstances of his death, and the prophecy was inevitable in the context; another detail I noticed is how Naruto became angry with the Jiraya" chan": Even knowing Jiraya was a great pervert, Naruto respected him as a great fighter and probably a father he never hadn't, and the chan coul means that Jiraya was being underestimated by the frog, but of course Naruto changed his behavior when Tsunade said it was Jiraya's master. This behavior is typical from Naruto, and was good to see he didn't changed it after all the years!

And with the revelation, the greatest part in the chapter IMO: Naruto's reactions. Of course he couldn't accept it at first, and to lose someone so close to him can be too much in this moment. Kishimoto built a huge cliffhanger here, and I think was great, because everything could happen from now. I'm so glad too see Naruto here, and not only that, but in just one chapter, some development about him was made. the development was short, but yet good, and this only prove that Kishimoto knows really how to do drama in the manga, and for now, for the main character. And with this, I'm expecting that Naruto can forget about Sasuke for while and focus in how to be a better ninja to honor Jiraya's name and death.

Now backing to Akatsuki and Hawk, we finally found out that Sasuke's true objetives are only Konoha's leaders. My guess here is Sasuke will include Tsunade in the list, after all, she's the current Hokage, and so a leader too. I'm relieved to see that Sasuke's madness wasn't that huge, and in fact, he'll go after the true responsibles for Itachi's fate. and if my guess is right, then it will be Sasuke's greatest mistake, because Tsunade is innocent, and some attempt to kill her won't be acceptable. And Kisame knows that attack Konoha won't be an easy task, but Sasuke won't listen him, either, his revenge's desire is too extreme right now...




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/naruto4044.png
A deadly Alliance, huh? Interesting...





Like I said before, I really think the Suigetsu vs Kisame fight was broke by Zetsu, because Suigetsu said their deal still isn't finished. Tobi stopping Suigetsu's attack with just an arm was one more hint of his great powers: he just stopped it without any scratch, even in the akatsuki robe, and he isn't even using time-space jutsu. Another thing that was interesting was Sasuke's speech: could be that Sasuke is planning some kind of powerup for his team? Just like Madara, I think he knows they aren't match to Konoha right now, and probably he doesn't care nothing about Akatsuki, either. And let's pay attention to Tobi's words: he said that Hawk and Konoha share the same goals; Sasuke's objective is to destroy Konoha's leaders, and with this, I'm almost certain that Tobi somehow wants to control Konoha: after defeating its leaders, Konoha would be a perfect prey, unprotected and vulnerable to external attacks. Make more sense now, it's just like one team complements the other, and a deadly alliance was formed.

Sasuke wasn't aware from the bijuus/jinchuuriki's existence, and I'm surprised with that, because even Karin knew about them. Probably Konoha, in its efforts to hide anything about nine tails, keep in secret the others. And Hashirama, what a monster! To control several bijuus, wow, how powerful he was! Probably the great legends about Konoha being the strongest country could be related with it: with so many monster as his command, Hashirama could easily take every other country! Another detail I think that deserves some attention is about the eight-tails: Kishimoto gave some emphasis in its capture, the entire Hawk team was assigned to capture it, and for these reasons, I believe the 8 tails will pay some important role in the story. It's just time to Kishimoto introduce some new brand character in the series, and the eight-tails would fit perfectly now, being ally with the only other one: Naruto. And not only that, but this would link Naruto and Sasuke again, and not in some expected Konoha war. This could be a great twist from now, I believe.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/BlueBigMac/naruto4045.png
Yes, keep thinking that way, Madara, and soon you'll see the results!





And with the new missions, I think I'm finally understand how Kishimoto will handle with the two plots: Akatsuki will try to capture Naruto, and just now, Naruto is knowing the truth about Jiraya. So, maybe Kishimoto will set the things with Pain first(about the capture), and after that, we'll for the likely Konoha was.
And to reinforce my statement about Tobi and Konoha, in the end of the chapter, again Tobi said that the village isn't off limits. From that, there's no other explanation other than Tobi will try to control the village. Of course I could be wrong, but two times in the same chapter Madara showed some evidence regarding Konoha.
Control Sasuke... Tobi is sure about it, but is that the reality? Usually, when a villain said something like that, some great twist is most likely to happen, and the "controlled" person turn back against. Probably it would be the case here, and I'll be very satisfied in the case it could be the real plot!




***Key Points***

Tobi being the Mizukage
Tsunade being strong about Jiraya's death
Everyone's sad faces in the Hokage Office
Naruto's reactions
Tobi stopping Suigetsu's attack with just one arm
Hashirama controlling so many talied beasts
Tobi was being thankful to the akatsuki's deceased members
Madara is so confident about control Sasuke



Summary


Great chapter!! The Mizukage issue was really interesting to see, and I'm glad to see Kisame alive and well; I'm waiting to see some serious fight involving him. Naruto being very well developed here was the best thing in the manga, his emotions, among with Tsunade were great, Kishimoto is becoming the drama master here. We have a great development in the plot, as well for Akatsuki and Hawk, in their new deadly alliance(not Mortal Kombat!).
I'm really curious to see Naruto from now, and to tell the truth, this is the most expected moment for me in the manga, and it will decide Naruto's fate!
As for Madara, more the height, more the fall!

hitokugutsu
June 15, 2008, 04:50 AM
Woohoo, one of your best reviews yet!! I pretty much have to agree with your analysis.
Although the part where Sasuke is sent to hunt a Biju, I dont think it has to be the 8-tails. There are different translations out there and some say he is to get the other Biju, wich doesnt neccesairy mean its the 8-tails. But actually I hope its the 8-tails and that this one has some plot relevenace. And call me optimistic but I'm hoping for some Orochimaru connection with this Biju.
As for Madara being a Kage its brings the story to a new level of threat. But with this revelation I'm actually thinking that Madara is several people in the Naruto world (dont worry I wont start a Danzou/Obito coversation) and that he actually has acces to all villages a way. So if you ask me, Kishi will hype up Madara even more in the future and makes sure that this guy will be the catalyst for the Next Shinobi World War.
And the part were Madara stops Suigetsu's sword there is a sound effect wich indicates a "CLANG" noise. This noise usually means two metals (weapons) clashing, wich could mean Madara's right arm is made of metal (or he just used Kakuzu's jutsu)

anddre
June 15, 2008, 10:35 AM
Olá Pate de carne,

Another good review :)

My two cents again:

1 - Based on the level of maturity from the villains, Pain, Madara and Kisame, I don't see much future for Sassuke in the long run. He is a pawn to be used. One of the things that came to my mind is Sassuke death under Konoha's top brass. If Naruto copies only the final moment, meaning the coup de grace, then his conflicted feelings can be used by Madara to pursue his own objectives.

2 - Hunting the 8 tail bijuu. If Kabuto is the 8 tail then the outcome of this hunt would definetely close this subject and character.

3 - Political wise, what will Tsunade do now? Call the five country leaders and prepare a state of war? Cut the crap with the elders and Danzou so Konoha could be prepared for the worst to come? Send spies to understand the true level of the oponents?


As for Madara being a Kage its brings the story to a new level of threat. But with this revelation I'm actually thinking that Madara is several people in the Naruto world (dont worry I wont start a Danzou/Obito coversation) and that he actually has acces to all villages a way. So if you ask me, Kishi will hype up Madara even more in the future and makes sure that this guy will be the catalyst for the Next Shinobi World War.

That would fit perfectly into item 3 if you imagine that Madara could be actually part of the "new council of war".

Regards,
André

patedecarne
June 15, 2008, 11:43 AM
@hitokugutsu
you know, with time the things only get better!
Yes, it's a fact that sometimes the japanese translation depends so much from the context, and yes we cannot say for sure the other tailed beast is the 8 tails; but one of my theories the support the 8 tails is because it should be almost so powerful as Naruto, the difference is a single tail, then to Akatsuki capture it would be a very difficult task, I think he must be too powerful to any akatsuki member right now; I'll think in the famous statement: first the easier, last the more difficult!
And I agree with you about Madara being several people, seems Madara had made his name outside Konoha too, and with that, more secrets will appear, I'm sure; But Madara already is the Mizukage, and now seems he'll try anything in Konoha; with that, i'm thinking Madara somehow is trying to unify all the countries in just one, could be a possibility that I never thought before...
And regarding the sound of his arm, is really strange, and if his arm is made from metal, we could imply that in some point he lost his arm, and again, People cannot discard Obito Theory... Damn Kishimoto, makins so much secret about Tobi's identity!


@anddre
Good to see you here, again!
I have the same thought about Sasuke: in a sense, Itachi was right about Sasuke being to pure just now, and a villain cannot be pure, a villain has own motivations that goes beyond being manipulated by other, and Sasuke naver had taken any decision by his own, but instead, he was always manipulated in his life, and more sad, the people only look at him as a tool, like you said, and much probably Naruto was the only one who saw a person, not a tool...
As for Tsunade, she's doing a great job as hokage, then I'm sure she'll take the right decision in the right moment, but only i she finds out that Tobi's real goals are related with the five great countries(which I believe). And when we think more carefully about it, Madara being a kage means he has control over an entire country, then, if he wants, he could begin a war at any time.
So much about him, just now, and without any solid answers....

igotthegoods
June 15, 2008, 02:59 PM
another nice review, pat :)

when kisame called madara "mizukage" i thought the same thing as you. how does everyone not know about this? did he hide his sharingan from everyone or was it just a secret outside of kirigakure?

i also agree with you about tsunade's demeanor during the scene where they were bringing in naruto to break the bad news to him. some people have criticized her for not showing more sadness, but i think she was just perfect here. i'm sure she will show emotion privately, but she has to show strength as the hokage. i'm still expecting to see some tears from her, but i doubt they will be public.


As for Madara, more the height, more the fall!

just an fyi, but i think the saying you were going for here is "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." :noworry

bittman
June 15, 2008, 07:35 PM
Good review pat, you're really getting into Naruto lately hey?

At Mizukage: hidden villages are distinctly that, hidden. Leaf is famous with Sand falling just behind it. The rain had a change of leadership, and even Jiraiya (one of the most informed people we've met) was unaware. I expect the hidden mist, waaaaaaaaaay in the middle of nowhere, is also rather secluded. Kisame recognised that Tobi = Mizukage = Madara, so we can assume that the mist (or at least a portion of it) know their leader has the sharingan.

Interesting that you haven't really touched on Zetsu considering what people have been throwing around in the discussion that Zetsu may actually be a more powerful character than originally anticipated since he appears to be the only one Madara truly confides in.

ChuckinUpDueces
June 16, 2008, 01:54 AM
Another interesting chapter another interesting patedecarne review!

I just wanted to touch on the subject of Madara being the Mizukage for a second. You have to go waaaaaay back in the Manga to the Zabuza vs Kakashi fight to find even the hint of a mention of him.

check out this panel http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/30/naruto_30_03/

Basically this calls into question the timeline. When exactly was Madara the Mizukage? Is he Mizukage now? Did he replace someone or since that time has someone taken his place?

It's really mind boggling that Zabuza would have attempted to assassinate the Mizukage who is a sharingan user and yet he goes up against Kakashi with no clue of how to beat the sharingan. In the same line of thinking, what could possibly have made Zabuza attempt such an impossible task of killing Madara with his level of power? Maybe he just didn't know who the Mizukage really was. However, you would think that being one of the 7 swordsmen of the mist, who grew up in the village hidden in the mist, he would be in on something like that a la Kisame. Furthermore, what kind of moronic ninja would attempt a coup de tat without the most necessary of all pieces of information on the target: HOW TO KILL.....We just finished watching Jiraiya get killed by Pein trying to figure him out, and yet Zabuza somehow got away from Madara who is possibly level with or stronger than Pein. Not to mention the sword Zabuza used to wield has been proven by Suigetsu to be INEFFECTIVE against the "Mizukage".

This ladies and gentlemen, is true madness, but.......it could be that Kakashi was misinformed, or maybe Zabuza pulled an Itachi and was merely keeping the truth a secret for some greater purpose. Either way, this is one hell of a development, and yet another blast from the past from Kishimoto.

Dhazard
June 16, 2008, 09:37 AM
Another interesting chapter another interesting patedecarne review!

I just wanted to touch on the subject of Madara being the Mizukage for a second. You have to go waaaaaay back in the Manga to the Zabuza vs Kakashi fight to find even the hint of a mention of him.

check out this panel http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/30/naruto_30_03/

Basically this calls into question the timeline. When exactly was Madara the Mizukage? Is he Mizukage now? Did he replace someone or since that time has someone taken his place?


You reminded me of Haku - the strangest thing is that people with bloodline limit on this country are feared and considered outcasts. So how does Madara fit?
Perhaps he was the one to spread the word to make sure no one with a bloodline limit would compete with him over the Mizukage post (since things are ran differently in Amegakure - more violently as demonstrated with Zabuza's historic). I will be glad if Kishimoto shed light into this matter.

nat
June 16, 2008, 12:02 PM
Excellent review.

Some issue's that you brought were very interesting, such as 8-tails' role.

It would add to Konoha's power if He/She/It were to joing them. They lost so many powerful warriors (and more to come), Naruto alone can't do everything. The others will help but they are not strong enough nor they have the capacity to grow in an insane rate inorder to stop Madara's plan (think Sasuke, no one except Naruto can match his progress speed).

Adding a new character might be either a genius stroke or a really lame one, it dipends on the character itself. But Kishi won't disappint us.

As for Sasuke, I think he knew about the Bijuu but preferred to act as if he didn't. What better way to gain information than getting (yet) another history lesson from Mads?



You reminded me of Haku - the strangest thing is that people with bloodline limit on this country are feared and considered outcasts. So how does Madara fit?
Perhaps he was the one to spread the word to make sure no one with a bloodline limit would compete with him over the Mizukage post (since things are ran differently in Amegakure - more violently as demonstrated with Zabuza's historic). I will be glad if Kishimoto shed light into this matter.


That is a very interesting Idea also, I wouldn't put it beneath him...

It would all go into his favor, elevate the bloodlines he needs/sees worthy, and kill those who might be a problem later on. Not only as Mizukage but as Akatsuki plans in general. He has been on the move for a long time, he saw many people and bloodlines. His plans were very elaborate from what we have seen.

In Konoha bloodlines are very welcome. I have no clue for the other places but in the mist, as you said, they are a big NO-NO. Not by coincidence...

Doing preperation might include massacres other than Uchiha. We could say that he was re-shaping the world in a different way, much similar to Pein's goals.

Eddy01741
June 16, 2008, 08:38 PM
Yeah, eliminating the bloodlines would make sense for Madara, especially since bloodlines are the only jutsu's that the sharingan cannot copy. Anyhow, it is quite interesting how Madara is/used to be the Mizukage, Kishi could manage to make the whole Zabuza plot actually quite important (well, more so than we know right now, as all it did was reveal Kakashi's sharingan, give sasuke the sharingan, and reveal the power of Kyuubi inside Naruto). That'd be interesting, especially since that was a pretty short arc. Well, as you mentioned in this and previous chapter reviews, it's nice to have the story come back to naruto, as it is a story about naruto, and not sasuke.

anddre
June 17, 2008, 02:29 PM
Hi all,

Talking about bloodlines here, what makes Sassuke so special?

The reason I am asking this, based on the current events, is that he survived the Uchiha massacre by a strike of luck, meaning a caring brother, and not because he was special power wise.

Now you add to the plot a character like Madara that appears to have no flaws or no one that could rival to. So why would he pay so much attention to Sassuke?

What are your ideas?

Regards,
André

Andonan
June 18, 2008, 02:15 AM
Awesome review, well written, well summarized, just awesome :D

Can't wait till your next haha