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VeshWolfe
June 26, 2008, 09:41 AM
Ok, I think Im about to give up on the anime for a while. The fillers after the SS Arc were fine in that it fleshed out characters more, like Ishida, and gave Aizen more time to do w/e he was doing in Hueco Mundo. Bt now these new fillers are just so off the wall its not funny. Grimmjow gets defeated and BAM! we are back in time before the HM Arc. Lets alos mention a new captain and 3rd seat who never appear in the manga at all. Im sorry but thes two new characters have killed the anime's story line the most. The only way out I see if for both to be killed by the end of the fillers or for it all to be a dream or something of that nature.

What do you think?

You can also discuss Bleach fillers in general in this thread. - Miyagi

AngryChubbs
June 26, 2008, 10:32 AM
fillers generally have that affect on any series. remember naruto when they made one of the 7 swordmen filler, and naruto defeats him back when naruto couldnt tie his shoes?

VeshWolfe
June 26, 2008, 11:49 AM
fillers generally have that affect on any series. remember naruto when they made one of the 7 swordmen filler, and naruto defeats him back when naruto couldnt tie his shoes?

uh no because for some reason i never got into naruto. lol.

Rechar
June 26, 2008, 12:59 PM
fillers generally have that affect on any series. remember naruto when they made one of the 7 swordmen filler, and naruto defeats him back when naruto couldnt tie his shoes?

Hey it wasn't naruto, its was rock lee drunk on the curry of life!

gigantor21
June 26, 2008, 02:38 PM
I gave up on this arc a few weeks ago.

The only reason studios make filler in the first place is money. They could just stop producing stuff, and let another show air in the meantime, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who'll watch every episode of this arc from start to finish. That's what they're banking on--and if it's less than usual, it's no big deal.

On topic, I don't think this is killing the story, lame as it is. Why? Because it's not a real part of the story in the first place. The arc is pretty much a bad fanfic put on film.

Megaman84
June 26, 2008, 03:30 PM
Its non-cannon so it doesnt really have anything to do with the storyline.
The arc is pretty B.S, but the animation has been quite good, and the manga is in top form - good enough to keep me not bothered about the animé.

sk.nite
June 26, 2008, 03:59 PM
I agree with everything except thing: it can't be worse than the Bounto arc.

THE KING
June 26, 2008, 04:45 PM
I agree with everything except thing: it can't be worse than the Bounto arc.

Well it sure is.

Cooper
June 26, 2008, 07:20 PM
Well, from the new episode it looks like all this sh!t takes place after HM because Sado didn't know about his left arm before HM...

Anyway, all fillers suck, but Bounto arc at least was after SS arc, not in the middle of it. So yeah, I agree about fillers killing the story in anime, and my only hope is manga and that Kubo won't screw up it.

bax
June 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
I'm moving this thread into the appropriate board since it's about the anime.

graphic_content
June 26, 2008, 09:02 PM
I just think filler arcs in general have a way of ruining things - for example, the manga portrays Rukia and Co. venture into the real world really dramatically because it is the first time Ichigo and Rukia are meeting after the 'Save Rukia' arc - and it is a first time, period for Renji and Co., but the effect was severly weakened because the anime had them in and out of the real world, like it was commonplace, when in fact it is rare, to avoid unnecessary spirit fluctuations in the real world.

black_burn
June 27, 2008, 12:12 AM
The sad thing about this arc is that its a total buzzkill , it bores me from beginning to end ,the little girl in it also annoys me.They totally made ichigo look like a noivce in this arc also. the bounto arc i thought was pretty awesome , it had some of the best action and animaton i have seen.

Leecher
June 28, 2008, 01:57 PM
The sad thing about this arc is that its a total buzzkill , it bores me from beginning to end ,the little girl in it also annoys me.They totally made ichigo look like a noivce in this arc also. the bounto arc i thought was pretty awesome , it had some of the best action and animaton i have seen.

I agree, bounto arc was a 'better' filler arc than most of these studio's put out for any anime.

Shiro-kun
June 28, 2008, 04:51 PM
It is a poorly put together filler, i rather prefer hiatus over this filler

gfire2
June 28, 2008, 06:55 PM
i just wanna noe how they gonna put ichigo and co bac into HM, seriousli this is 100x times worse than the bounto arc.

ichigo, ishida, chad look like complete noobs. (seriousli i reckon chad could pwn espada 10-7 with that arm but was just unlucki meetin 4) and plus they stopped my favourite shinigami cup for some stupid arancar encyclopedia.

Supergoofy
June 30, 2008, 08:54 AM
These fillers are messed up anyway, although the fightings were not that bad at all. I really liked Chad's and Rukia's fight.
But at least come with something that can be enjoyed, because this story and it's enemy's just dont make any sense to me. (including in terms of power)
They should just do a "what-if" scenario were Ichigo could not stop his Hollow from taking over and let him rampage the complete earth to a point were even Aizen is not considerd a threat. I miss that crazy laugh :(

lazyboyrod
June 30, 2008, 04:38 PM
These fillers are killing me, I guess they thought they were too close to the manga or something, whatever the reason I hope they hurry up and get it over with.

badluckartist
June 30, 2008, 06:49 PM
Saw the first two episodes and gagged on the utter absurdness of this new "arc", if it can even be called that. The Bount Arc was respectible- ESPECIALLY in the fact that it didn't cut through SS, and instead happened afterwards. Instead of creating a decent story that doesn't screw with canon, they take the first episode of the new filler and not only disorient us as to when and how it's taking place, but punch canon right in the nuts.

Doesn't mess with the manga at all, thankfully, but certainly screws with the anime. Unless of course the filler characters meet very [un]timely deaths.

wrstljr
June 30, 2008, 11:24 PM
The Bounto arc was among the best filler arcs I have ever witnessed. Great fights and villian...everything worked out somehow.

I dont see that happening with the current fillers though.

neomaster121
July 01, 2008, 12:01 PM
these fillers are not as bad as everyone makes out
if you watched the seasons of fillers naruto left behind after part 1 then you wouldn't complain much about the bleach fillers arcs.
They are structured and are meant to lead somewhere

don't forget people they did say at the begining of the arc. THis is something completely different to the current story so i guess they will end it with them starting the story again

Kashi
July 02, 2008, 11:15 AM
Fillers are lame no matter how short or long they are..I realized this when I watched every single filler episode or "NARUTO" I didn't know any better I thought they would be over soon enough but they kept going and going and going and...are they over yet?! (JK) But seriously I am not watching the Naruto or Bleach fillers because all it will do is turn me away from the series as a whole. I mean I will probably check them out if I was on like house arrest or something but I don't know. When will the fillers be over anyways after summer?!

Flight-47
July 10, 2008, 02:45 AM
How the heck can the fillers ruin the story, when they have NOTHING to do with the original Bleach storyline?

That's like saying the Dragonball Z movies, messed up the flow of the series, it makes no sense.



These fillers are completely separate from the series, similar to the Bleach movies. They have NOTHING to do with the canon series, so they can't ruin it.


It was stated in the first episode that these fillers aren't a part of the original series, so for those too ignorant to understand that, I'm sorry for you.




EDIT:
What's with people watching the first few episodes of this filler arc. and saying it sucks, yet saying the Bount Arc was good?
The first 5-8 episodes of the Bount arc sucked. They played a stupid little game with Urahara's little toys, and then it took over 4 episodes to build into the story, THEN they had a bunch of useless encounters and fights in Karakura Town before actually entering Soul Society, and starting the good parts of the series.

gigantor21
July 10, 2008, 06:27 AM
^ Because the Bount Arc was still better at that point (though not by much).

People wouldn't be so dismissive about this arc if it wasn't worse.

Silhouette
July 10, 2008, 07:15 AM
How the heck can the fillers ruin the story, when they have NOTHING to do with the original Bleach storyline?

That's like saying the Dragonball Z movies, messed up the flow of the series, it makes no sense.



These fillers are completely separate from the series, similar to the Bleach movies. They have NOTHING to do with the canon series, so they can't ruin it.


It was stated in the first episode that these fillers aren't a part of the original series, so for those too ignorant to understand that, I'm sorry for you.




EDIT:
What's with people watching the first few episodes of this filler arc. and saying it sucks, yet saying the Bount Arc was good?
The first 5-8 episodes of the Bount arc sucked. They played a stupid little game with Urahara's little toys, and then it took over 4 episodes to build into the story, THEN they had a bunch of useless encounters and fights in Karakura Town before actually entering Soul Society, and starting the good parts of the series.

first of all, welcome to MH and thanks for the post

To answer your question, unfortunately bashing the fillers is just another way of spam...it's an opinion the first time but by God when it's done week after week with almost the same expressions" sucks, crap,...etc" by the same posters then it's plain spam.

Flight-47
July 11, 2008, 03:48 AM
Thank you Silhouette. I appreciate the warm welcome ^_^



As for the fillers themselves, I did notice that people just constantly continue to bash them, despite them only seeing the first few episodes, which IMO were crappy for sure. They weren't as bad as the Bount arc. beginning IMO, but it was pretty lame. Episode 176-177 is what drew my attention to these fillers finally. I was hoping I'd get to see a chance to see Chad in a fair fight for once, instead of either easily defeating his enemy, or getting completely owned by the enemy.

xZerapHx
August 08, 2008, 11:35 AM
episode 182-183 are the far best filler episodes i've seen in bleach (or narutos MAIN story anime for that matter) the vice captains arguing & ichigo vs. the imaginary captain's fights were pretty good

Eddy01741
August 09, 2008, 11:22 PM
At least they integrated the Bounto Arc into the story, this is just like... well, let's stop the current canon stuff in HM to go to a meaningless conflict in the SS.

3shinkyo3
August 11, 2008, 07:21 AM
I don't mind these fillers. It makes sense that SS would want to fill in their captain posts, so even if they he was then incorporated into later arcs it wouldn't bother me as it seems plausible. The captain would make a much better addition than those dolls from bounto arc which still appear like they did to help renji fight that bull guy thereby changing what was shown in the manga.

xZerapHx
August 11, 2008, 10:16 AM
but will the captain exist in the canon series or will he just die some pointles death along with kifune (kifune's dead for sure)

still.... i would like to see a new captain in the main story too (but NOT ikkaku i've had enough of him by now)

ChristopherE
August 11, 2008, 01:13 PM
but will the captain exist in the canon series or will he just die some pointles death along with kifune (kifune's dead for sure)

still.... i would like to see a new captain in the main story too (but NOT ikkaku i've had enough of him by now)

Judging from recent episodes, it looks the Captain won't die off but moreso be kicked off. He committed a serious crime by assisting Ichigo, the offender.

The 3rd seat of the 3rd division will be killed off by Kira or caught by Kira resulting in Jail or going back to the patrol group with Amagai.

mgalli
August 11, 2008, 01:38 PM
all you have to do is pretend like these fillers never happened...thats what I do and it works out fine

UchihaMadara
August 11, 2008, 02:24 PM
Amagai will probably return to the patrol or whatever he did before.

kazeofsilence
August 11, 2008, 10:55 PM
I noticed people are wondering how the filler will transition back to the main story. As I recall, this filler is an out of continum storyline meaning it is an alternate reality. That means when the storyline is over, it returns to the main story with none of what happened in this arc phasing the Hueco Mundo arc. Also, I find this arc to be rather entertaining. And the filler in general for Bleach is rather unique and interesting. Personally this is how I rank the three main filler arcs.

1. Bount Arc
2. New Sanbantai no Taichou Arc
3. Miscellaneous Arrancar/Hollow Arc(the 2nd filler set)

dgames
August 12, 2008, 01:36 PM
I've read somewhere that these fillers are some kind of introduction to the new captain of the 3rd squad that will appear in the manga,

Stop complaining, this new captain is awsome, the fillers have nice fights, and if it was not for the fillers the series would stop airing for the meantime, otherwise it would catch up to the manga, and you would only have 1 episode per month or less.....

xZerapHx
August 12, 2008, 02:34 PM
I've read somewhere that these fillers are some kind of introduction to the new captain of the 3rd squad that will appear in the manga,

Stop complaining, this new captain is awsome, the fillers have nice fights, and if it was not for the fillers the series would stop airing for the meantime, otherwise it would catch up to the manga, and you would only have 1 episode per month or less.....

but... he wasn't in the manga when all the captains came for the final showdown with aizen.... so taht was probaby a lie

neomaster121
August 14, 2008, 07:12 AM
well i don't see how this afftects the story cause they did say this was a completely seperate story from the current aka its made up thes no reason these fillers will affect anything unlike the stupid naruto fillers

HisshouBuraiKen
August 14, 2008, 10:00 AM
It's terrible. People have their HM arc powers before they've gone to HM. Sprenger? La Muerte? Controlled Hollowification? The whole arc is like a long, bad movie all the way around. It has decent animation (most of the time), a terrible story, lame villains, lame original characters, and doesn't fit in anywhere.

Tsukisama
August 14, 2008, 07:00 PM
It's terrible. People have their HM arc powers before they've gone to HM. Sprenger? La Muerte? Controlled Hollowification? The whole arc is like a long, bad movie all the way around. It has decent animation (most of the time), a terrible story, lame villains, lame original characters, and doesn't fit in anywhere.

Well, to defend this half-baked arc somewhat, this filler arc is not necessarily set before the HM arc. We really don't know when it takes places in relation to the actual storyline if it does at all. This is an AU (alternate universe) filler arc, meaning that they could really do pretty much do whatever they wanted wihtout any major damaging reprecussions on the actual storyline. The animators went so far as to create a new Gotei 13 captain. I think using moves that are actually in the Bleach plot is not that big in comparison.

Eddy01741
August 15, 2008, 07:44 PM
Amagai will definitely be kicked off, this is all assuming that Ichigo is back in the real world and not HM, if they include Amagai in the manga, hten he will never have met Ichigo, so everything would be messed up.

dreamzsai
August 16, 2008, 08:09 AM
Ichigo needing to go into Hollow mode just to beat some "random enemy" wielding a "bakudou", Ishida getting caught in his own Sprenger, but survives it when it's power almost kills an Espada. Soifon unable to reach the Ichigo and co, letting them escape just because she is blocked by some Icy wall?

The fillers are really kinda bad. =/

xZerapHx
August 16, 2008, 03:43 PM
rukias animation is exactly the same one they used for the first time she used it.... lazy ass animators -.-

Exodi
August 18, 2008, 09:19 PM
I would actually prefer it if, when the fillers are over, it just went straight back to the original storyline. I like the idea of this arc being an "alternate reality" as someone mentioned.

Eddy01741
August 21, 2008, 02:35 PM
The ONLY way these fillers can work is as an alternate reality, if Amagai becomes a true captain, then al lhis experiences with ichigo would be gone, not to mention that at this time all the SS is in panic anyways.

llamapie
August 21, 2008, 04:56 PM
but... he wasn't in the manga when all the captains came for the final showdown with aizen.... so taht was probaby a lie

Yea since Amagi is helping ichigo they conveniently added an element where he will be removed from the story at the end of this horrible filler arc.

HEY! At least Naruto got passed theirs.
[hr]

It's terrible. People have their HM arc powers before they've gone to HM. Sprenger? La Muerte? Controlled Hollowification? The whole arc is like a long, bad movie all the way around. It has decent animation (most of the time), a terrible story, lame villains, lame original characters, and doesn't fit in anywhere.

Thats the case for all of the fillers. In both Naruto and Bleach they make sure they pump out fillers that have 0 relevence to any kind of improvement in the story. It's understandable but there is no reason like in old anime and in the USA that they don't just have season finales. Stop the crap just don't air anything new for 4 months and we'll all be alot happier.

Flight-47
September 04, 2008, 05:23 PM
Horrible filler arc.

I constantly hear that from people who aren't even watching the fillers, and that pisses me off. IMO, these fillers have been great. Nice battles. Of course the events on Earth dragged out too long, and the two followers of the Princess are annoying, the latest events in Soul Society and the last battles before Ichigo's group went to SS were very impressive.

Better than anything I've seen in the Bounto arc.



Fillers end on Oct. 1st. Canon begins Oct. 8th.




Seems like Amagai once worked for (or still works for) Kumoi. He saved the Princess himself, and cut down Kumoi, who called him a traitor.

Now Amagai faces off against Genryuusai for unknown reasons. Is Amagai truly a villain? or has he really done this for the good of the Gotei 13?
At the moment, all evidence say that Amagai is an enemy. But why would he go directly to Genryuusai after killing Kumoi, and saving the Princess is beyond me.


He also said, "Excellent work" to Ichigo before leaving to see Genryuusai.
At the moment, it's all so confusing, but it makes sense. It just depends how you put the clues together O.O


I have a feeling that Amagai may become a big time villain (like Aizen), and we may see him again the next time Bleach fillers come around. It would make sense that they continue these fillers after they cannot continue the manga any further.





EDIT:
Oh yes, for those who're still brainless on the situation.
These fillers are NOT connected to the original series.

It's just like the Dragonball Z movies. They're an alternate universe to the series.
Instead of TRYING to find things to complain about, enjoy the series.
Those who're too ignorant to even give it a short, I feel sorry for you ^_^

Starky-08
September 06, 2008, 06:07 PM
I personally like the fillers, I didn't really like the beginning, but once Ichigo went to SS I liked it, but they are making some characters look weak, like Soifon and Uryu.

Bohemia22
September 11, 2008, 02:18 PM
These fillers suck, unlike the bounto arc which was even good, for a filler. Though the plot got up some twists in the last episodes, as I read, it's still awful. Hope they will do an ultra job on the main plot to make me watch bleach again :O.

Tias
September 13, 2008, 02:30 PM
I think it's lovely how the old gramps dosnt say anyhting to ichigo when he pulls out his hollow mask but that in the past that the central 46 or whatever they are called wanted the victims of aizen (the ones who were used for ''hollowfication'' to be executed....And dont say the old gramsps dosnt have any word he can say, imo this filler is the worst BS ever

AkatsukiNoTobi
September 14, 2008, 11:23 AM
Yamamoto should be strong enough without his Shikai activated to be able to fight Amagai without problem. I mean, being the Captain over the Captains, you'd think he'd be stronger than everyone else at a "base level."

MegaX
September 22, 2008, 01:41 AM
Yamamoto should be strong enough without his Shikai activated to be able to fight Amagai without problem. I mean, being the Captain over the Captains, you'd think he'd be stronger than everyone else at a "base level."

To be fair, Yamamoto didn't seem fazed at any point during the fight. Even when Amagai pulled out his Limit Break on Ichigo and everyone was all, "ohshitohshit" he just stood there acting all, "Mmkay. Bored now."

jocouslie
September 22, 2008, 06:00 AM
guys are there any news on what's coming after this arc? definitely the current arc will be ending come next episode(most probably). i like to see the anime people do the vizard arc first before continuing to the present story.

Tsukisama
September 22, 2008, 11:02 AM
guys are there any news on what's coming after this arc? definitely the current arc will be ending come next episode(most probably). i like to see the anime people do the vizard arc first before continuing to the present story.

I think it is most likely to return to where the anime left off in the actual plot, with which I would agree. The vizard gaiden is a nice buffer between the the HM arc and the beginning of the present arc. I think it would be a bad move to just transition from HM to the present arc. Plus, having the gaiden in between allows for more filler potential, because we know that we will be getting more filler to extend the gap from the present of the manga.

Urtear
November 20, 2008, 10:44 AM
I don't think the fillers kill the story
becuase at the end of the fillers
the plot remains unchanged:hb

Flight-47
November 26, 2008, 08:38 PM
Yamamoto should be strong enough without his Shikai activated to be able to fight Amagai without problem. I mean, being the Captain over the Captains, you'd think he'd be stronger than everyone else at a "base level."

What people fail to see is that his Shinigami POWERS were sealed. Not just his Shikai. Without Shinigami powers he was unable to use his Shikai, thats all.

Ichigo was able to use his powers, because of the help from his Inner Hollow.



Personally, I thought that compared to the Bount arc. these filler episodes were great. Very well done, nice development on both Amagai, and Kifune. Kira fighting was nice to see. We got to see some Vice Captains battle shortly. Kenpachi disown a ninja in a second... (Take that Naruto!), and we got to see Genryuusai's kick ass release in animation one more time!

Hitsugaya's short battle VS Amagai was eh.
The plot of the episode was very well organized to fit one season, and for the most part it didn't drag on and on.

Uryuu, and Chad's fight was awesome IMO.
But the only thing that bothered me was the annoying little Princess... and the never ending, OMFG a girl was kidnapped, Ichigo help!
It happened during the SS arc. It happeneds during the Hueco Mundo arc.
It happened in the first Movie.
And now in a filler series? *sigh*



Anyways, with the fillers over, and obviously and the story continuing unharmed, all those who voted 'yes' to this poll can feel like a bunch of idiots for not comprehending that these fillers had no tie to the original story what so ever ;)



We'll be seeing another filler arc. just like this one after this current season most likely, because once again the manga isn't too far off from the series.

THM Nindo
April 01, 2009, 01:53 PM
Well, I think that Bleach's fillers arent' that bad.
The stories are kinda good and it's nice to see other people, etc.

My favorite was the one Toshirou helped Karin with his soccer team.
I'm all for the Toshirou-Karin pairings (even if there's nothing in the manga that is pushing towards that) :p

But, I agree that putting 2 sets of 2 fillers episode between Canon episode is really stupid. They should have just go on with the Pendelum arc and go back to the Fake Karakura Town arc without putting fillers...

Charlie
April 01, 2009, 06:20 PM
Well, I think that Bleach's fillers arent' that bad.
The stories are kinda good and it's nice to see other people, etc.

My favorite was the one Toshirou helped Karin with his soccer team.
I'm all for the Toshirou-Karin pairings (even if there's nothing in the manga that is pushing towards that) :p

But, I agree that putting 2 sets of 2 fillers episode between Canon episode is really stupid. They should have just go on with the Pendelum arc and go back to the Fake Karakura Town arc without putting fillers...

Well they can not due that because of how close they're catching up with the manga. I said this before but, I put the blame on the director. He should of put a filler arc such as the Bount or some other stroy prior to the Hueco Mundo invasion.

I don't have a problems with fillers in general on any anime. I liked the soccer match episode as well.

Flight-47
April 01, 2009, 06:48 PM
Well they can not due that because of how close they're catching up with the manga. I said this before but, I put the blame on the director. He should of put a filler arc such as the Bount or some other stroy prior to the Hueco Mundo invasion.

I don't have a problems with fillers in general on any anime. I liked the soccer match episode as well.


Nope, not true at all.
In fact, the next season episodes have been announced, and guess what?!


2009-04-14
215.
Defend Karakura Town! Entire Appearance of the Shinigami
空座町を護れ!死神総登場
Karakura-cho o mamore! Shinigami sou toujou
2009-04-21
216.
Elite! The Four Shinigami
精鋭!四人の死神
Seiei! Yon nin no shinigami
2009-04-28
217.
Beautiful Warrior Charlotte
美しき戦士シャルロッテ
Utsukushiki senshi Sharurotte



Boo yeah!!
I'm happy. I'm assuming they'll end the season with the revealing of the Espada numbers, before Ichigo VS Ulquiorra.

Charlie
April 01, 2009, 10:07 PM
Thanks for posting the titles mate, I recall reading the next episode titles somewhere.
I check out a couple forums and I belive someone mentioned those episodes titles elsewhere but can't recall.

Looks like they are doing one or two in between fillers currently. The most recent was the new captain Amagi one, prior to switching back.

Since they're close to the manga, they should have had an arc prior to the Hueco Mundo invasion in my opinion. Then we would not have these constant in story semi originals that are out of place. The director is at fault for not managing properly here. Instead of asking when the anime originals are coming, due to poor management, the question has evolved into where? Better yet, where in between the main plot are they going to stick them in...

I'm also wondering how far they're willing to push the envelope with these episodes.

Since I do not mind anime original arcs or these break episodes, I really don't have an issue with them per-se.

Flight-47
April 02, 2009, 10:57 AM
Actually the current running fillers was Kubo Tite's idea. He's made this exact mini-story in Bleach video games, and in his mini-comics, and wanted to bring it to life in the anime. Given that it is a bit different... (my guess is anime studio messed with it a bit).

It was the same with the Forest of Menos arc. but that was all Kubo's project, just like the recent third movie. He seems to be scolding the anime production a lot =P
But it's finally time an author of a manga got involved with their anime.


In any case, I don't mind the Amagai type fillers.
They have NOTHING to do with the story, thus it wouldn't ruin it.
I was hoping they'd do that again, because it'd be like we have two Bleach anime. Canon, and filler. =D

As decent as the Bount arc. was, it took place during the original storyline, which made for annoying fillers during canon material. We'll never see Amagai or any of those others in canon episodes... why? Because the arc. was it's own separate story. But we still see those annoying 3 mod souls in the Arrancar arc. thanks to the Bount fillers...



I don't mind the mini-series they've been doing. The soccer one was a bit, blah, but I'm enjoying this one so far. As for the current situation...

They're continuing into the Fake Karakura Town arc.
As awesome as that is, it's a bad idea!

Simply because once they get REALLY close to the manga, we're either going to have some long ass fillers (like Naruto did), or even worse, the anime will drift away from the manga completely like FMA did.

DARK
May 26, 2009, 03:20 PM
Compared to the Naruto and One Piece fillers, the Bleach fillers are actually great to watch.
The Karakurizer arc included some of the better filler episodes of the series, if one counts the arc as filler.

thefreak
November 16, 2009, 01:42 PM
The Current filler has ran for too long. Need to get on with the story .
Let the bashing begin.

JP_Russell
November 16, 2009, 02:01 PM
It hasn't gone on for too long, it's just gone off the rails pretty badly in my opinion. I understand this filler is supposed to last for like 50 episodes and so far we've only had ~15, so don't hold your breath if you're expecting it to end soon :tem. Best we can hope for is that they inject some life back into it.

Aonsaithya
November 16, 2009, 03:25 PM
Well, since anime is always catching up to manga we have the following options:
1) Pause anime. Not really an option, eh?
2) Extend every single worthless scene in anime (like Yoruichi eating or adding the mod-souls every now and then) so that each anime episode covers barely one manga chapter.
3) Get single filler episodes with some shinigami baking cakes and playing football. Please no.
4) Get a short (2-4) episode filler story with some utter crap like the arrancars who "killed Ulquiorra"...or KARAKURARIZER!
5) Get an actual long filler arc, with some story, too!

You choose.

exacta
February 26, 2012, 03:18 AM
Well, Naruto Filler´s fits better in the world of naruto-story-canon as the Fillers of "Bleach" duing the "The Arrancar"-Saga. Also the low ratings are one of the reason for the cancellation of Bleach.

Naruto fillers are terrible.....Bleach is the only anime that has fillers which I find actually enjoyable. Plus, remember how many fillers there were before shippuden? It was crazy. Plus Naruto throws fillers in when it doesn't even need them. Seems like Bleach's time slot is just being moved though, so it doesnt matter.

---------- Post added at 03:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------


Okay, so I don't quite understand what the argument is, after all, the Bleach manga is on its LAST arc, so the anime is going to end soon regardless. All this means is that the anime will end ONE arc before the manga. This can easy be remedied with a small ova series. As for throwing in another filler, we all know Bleach fillers are the biggest load of shit anime can produce, they never fit in the time line of bleach, fail to supplement themselves between the brakes in arcs, and obliterate the established rules and facts of the Bleach universe. Not to mention they destroy the characteristics of the Bleach characters by making them do uncharacteristic actions. But well, we have no control over it anyways.

Bleach is on its last arc, yes, but Kubo said this arc is going to last longer than the Arrancar Arc. Bleach isn't ending anytime soon lol. I think he even said he plans on making Bleach last another ten years.....

OtakuModeEngage
February 26, 2012, 03:58 PM
Yes because Naruto should be struggling to get back his headband from some civilian pirates and hanging out with his friends on their missions to get war supplies fits perfectly into Naruto canon.

Anyways the inevitable continuation or remake will probably come in the last 2 years of Bleach's final arc like HXH. I just hope its a remake with just canon material even though I personally loved most Bleach fillers.

Hollow Ichigo vs Zangetsu is still one of the best filler fights ever.
Yeah, except it fits nowhere in the timeline of Bleach, just try to put it between real arcs, you'll get nowhere. And that particular filler arc in question, puts Byakuya completely out of character, not to mention destroys Renji's established soul slayer, which is a monkey with a snake tail, not an animalfied pair of chained humans!

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------


Naruto fillers are terrible.....Bleach is the only anime that has fillers which I find actually enjoyable. Plus, remember how many fillers there were before shippuden? It was crazy. Plus Naruto throws fillers in when it doesn't even need them. Seems like Bleach's time slot is just being moved though, so it doesnt matter.

---------- Post added at 03:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------



Bleach is on its last arc, yes, but Kubo said this arc is going to last longer than the Arrancar Arc. Bleach isn't ending anytime soon lol. I think he even said he plans on making Bleach last another ten years.....

I think you're mixing up the Arrancar sub arc -which has propelled us through half of bleach thus far- with the Iazen Arc -which has carried us through all of bleach up 'till the full-bringer transition arc. That being said, its more like five years.

Naruto fillers may have horrible plots, but at least we can say they reasonable fit between arcs.

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------


I'm actually sad that it is not ending, and no, not because it would mean less work P:
I don't watch fillers anyway, even though I know Bleach fillers tend to be at least half-decent. So for me, it'd be better if they took a break and came back later, either with reboot (can you imagine that:zomg) or with super-awesome last arc. We know that Bleach anime will always be catching up to manga quickly, and I'll be tired of 2years long fillers or filler arcs in the middle of canon arc. Because that's the only way for Bleach, since it has LONG arcs and less content in each chapter than other series.

I agree... they stopped Naruto, took a break, and came back on with Naruto Shipuden. Why not come back with Bleach 2 after an extended brake?

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------


Well, Reborn-Anime isn´t really licensed in USA and Europe, which isn´t dubbed it until now. A Reborn-Remake would be a perfect opportunity to dubbed it from the beginning and with them new Fans^^


Anyway, for a Bleach Anime-Remake, I would only remake the episodes with 4:3 aspetio ratio and cutting the filler´s out. The rest of the episodes with 16:9 aspetio ratio is good and it doesn´t really need a remake ( only cutting the fillers out ).

Why remake, the quality of the real arcs is good, just release a second version with all fillers cut and you have a master piece.

NinjaStar
February 27, 2012, 02:01 AM
I can't believe people hate filler so much that they would like for bleach to be completely rebooted. Lke how much sense does that make? You don't like filler? Skip it. What is the point of reanimating already animated material? It was fine with DBZ Kai because that came out like 10 years after DBZ was finished. Bleach is still going -_-. IMO bleach is the best ANIME out of the big 3. Best filler, top notch quality, great voice acting, and it turns arcs that are lack luster(fullbring) into works of art. I would be highly dissapointed if bleach started over or went on anything more than a 6 month hiatus.

OtakuModeEngage
February 27, 2012, 03:35 AM
I can't believe people hate filler so much that they would like for bleach to be completely rebooted. Lke how much sense does that make? You don't like filler? Skip it. What is the point of reanimating already animated material? It was fine with DBZ Kai because that came out like 10 years after DBZ was finished. Bleach is still going -_-. IMO bleach is the best ANIME out of the big 3. Best filler, top notch quality, great voice acting, and it turns arcs that are lack luster(fullbring) into works of art. I would be highly dissapointed if bleach started over or went on anything more than a 6 month hiatus.


Best quality fillers?
1. The only filler that comes even close to fitting in the bleach universe is the Bount arc. Placed right between two real arc that have a great deal of open 'down time' between them, the timing is perfect, and the story is actually pretty good, and they continue to fit elements from it into the rest of Bleach. When I first watched it I had yet to begin reading the manga and thought it was a real arc. However, they made one critical mistake, they made the female creator of the Bounts the first head of the soul society science division, when we later find out that it was none other than Udahara who founded and became the first leader of the science devision. Thus we can judge this filler as impossible since it brakes established rules of the Beach Universe.

2. The princess arc; they put it right in the middle the fight between Ichigo and Grimjaw, pausing the fight to have a random filler arc. That pissed me off. Before Ichigo inters Huako Mundo, he does not have the powers he displays in this filler. Immediately after he exits Huaco Mudo he fight Iazen, then loses his powers, and when he gains them back, they have changed. Therefore, we can judge this filler as impossible since it was not placed between arc and cannot fit into the timeline of the Bleach Universe.

3. The Zampakto filler; which put Bayakua completely out of character, and fucked around with Renji's soul slayer, changing it from the established monkey with a snake tail, to two crappy animalfied girls chained together. This also pissed me off. Renji's soul slayer is a monkey with a snakes tail, period. Also, this arc was pushed in the middle of the combating Iazen arc, and can't fit between arcs because Ichigo came immediately from Huaco Mudo to fight Iazan does not have the powers before Huaco or after fighting Iazen. Therefore this arc can also be judged as impossible, because it brakes established characters and facts of the Bleach Universe and can't fit into the timeline.

Sorry to break it to you, but while One Piece fillers suck, they are far and few in between and don't disrupt the plot whatsoever. Similarly, while Naruto fillers (which also suck) slip up here or there plot wise, they can at least be complemented for the fact that they are actually placed between arcs that have a reasonable time span of down time; unlike Bleach that just throws them in wherever they feel like it. As for Bleach being the best Anime, that is a matter of opinion.

meeedoooz
February 27, 2012, 03:52 AM
people saying " they should drop Naruto " is just too damn funny :D :D :D... thanks for the good laugh .

on another note i agree with both Ninjastar and otakumode in some things... bleach fillers DO suck the most, but that doesn't mean Naruto fillers or one piece's are good cause they ARE not , they are terrible

and yeah... in terms of good animating and directing bleach anime is by far the best out of the big three right now.

NinjaStar
February 27, 2012, 10:15 AM
Best quality fillers?
1. The only filler that comes even close to fitting in the bleach universe is the Bount arc. Placed right between two real arc that have a great deal of open 'down time' between them, the timing is perfect, and the story is actually pretty good, and they continue to fit elements from it into the rest of Bleach. When I first watched it I had yet to begin reading the manga and thought it was a real arc. However, they made one critical mistake, they made the female creator of the Bounts the first head of the soul society science division, when we later find out that it was none other than Udahara who founded and became the first leader of the science devision. Thus we can judge this filler as impossible since it brakes established rules of the Beach Universe.

2. The princess arc; they put it right in the middle the fight between Ichigo and Grimjaw, pausing the fight to have a random filler arc. That pissed me off. Before Ichigo inters Huako Mundo, he does not have the powers he displays in this filler. Immediately after he exits Huaco Mudo he fight Iazen, then loses his powers, and when he gains them back, they have changed. Therefore, we can judge this filler as impossible since it was not placed between arc and cannot fit into the timeline of the Bleach Universe.

3. The Zampakto filler; which put Bayakua completely out of character, and fucked around with Renji's soul slayer, changing it from the established monkey with a snake tail, to two crappy animalfied girls chained together. This also pissed me off. Renji's soul slayer is a monkey with a snakes tail, period. Also, this arc was pushed in the middle of the combating Iazen arc, and can't fit between arcs because Ichigo came immediately from Huaco Mudo to fight Iazan does not have the powers before Huaco or after fighting Iazen. Therefore this arc can also be judged as impossible, because it brakes established characters and facts of the Bleach Universe and can't fit into the timeline.

Im not talking about the placement. I could care less about when they are supposedly supposed to take place. They are FILLER. They could be the most accurate things in the entire world and it still wouldn't matter because it is filler and thus non canon. What i meant was if just looked at filler for the big 3 and not the canon then bleach would rank at the top. Bleach filler is by far the most entertaining out of the 3. The quality is better than actually canon episodes and they have some of the best fights as well. I have watched most one piece filler and its meh but naruto filler is just trash. I don't think there has been one good filler arc expect maybe the gaara one back in part 1. It doesn't matter if bleach filler doesn't hold true to "bleach law"...Its filler...Its supposed to fill in the time between the manga and anime while giving you a damn good time. And in that matter it does so magically. Also like i said the anime has made the the fullbring arc into a masterpiece regardless of filler or not.

mshalhxh
February 27, 2012, 11:38 AM
Remakes should be done just for series like FMA, soul eater and the other monthly mangas that have a sh**ty anime :) BTW i doubt that they are dropping bleach... Fillers are always welcome in japan.

shitty are you sure from this because i think you are wrong because soul eater was an great anime

Zehahaha
February 27, 2012, 12:15 PM
Best quality fillers?
1. The only filler that comes even close to fitting in the bleach universe is the Bount arc. Placed right between two real arc that have a great deal of open 'down time' between them, the timing is perfect, and the story is actually pretty good, and they continue to fit elements from it into the rest of Bleach. When I first watched it I had yet to begin reading the manga and thought it was a real arc. However, they made one critical mistake, they made the female creator of the Bounts the first head of the soul society science division, when we later find out that it was none other than Udahara who founded and became the first leader of the science devision. Thus we can judge this filler as impossible since it brakes established rules of the Beach Universe.

2. The princess arc; they put it right in the middle the fight between Ichigo and Grimjaw, pausing the fight to have a random filler arc. That pissed me off. Before Ichigo inters Huako Mundo, he does not have the powers he displays in this filler. Immediately after he exits Huaco Mudo he fight Iazen, then loses his powers, and when he gains them back, they have changed. Therefore, we can judge this filler as impossible since it was not placed between arc and cannot fit into the timeline of the Bleach Universe.

3. The Zampakto filler; which put Bayakua completely out of character, and fucked around with Renji's soul slayer, changing it from the established monkey with a snake tail, to two crappy animalfied girls chained together. This also pissed me off. Renji's soul slayer is a monkey with a snakes tail, period. Also, this arc was pushed in the middle of the combating Iazen arc, and can't fit between arcs because Ichigo came immediately from Huaco Mudo to fight Iazan does not have the powers before Huaco or after fighting Iazen. Therefore this arc can also be judged as impossible, because it brakes established characters and facts of the Bleach Universe and can't fit into the timeline.

Sorry to break it to you, but while One Piece fillers suck, they are far and few in between and don't disrupt the plot whatsoever. Similarly, while Naruto fillers (which also suck) slip up here or there plot wise, they can at least be complemented for the fact that they are actually placed between arcs that have a reasonable time span of down time; unlike Bleach that just throws them in wherever they feel like it. As for Bleach being the best Anime, that is a matter of opinion.

So, you saying that just because a filler doesn't fit, it sucks ? lol what ?

1- Ran'Tao wasn't even mentioned to be the first head of the scientific division, it was said that she was the leader of the group of scientists that were creating Bounts, get your facts straight.

2- Again, you should watch fillers after realizing that they're just there to stop the anime from catching up the manga. If you don't get that straight, you'll just stop enjoying those fillers. There's a reason they're not fuckin called CANON material, even if those fillers were made by Kubo for the case of Bleach, still not Canon, therefore just think of it as a story (Although I agree that the timing was poorly choosen).

3- Are you serious ? Put Byakuya completely out of character ? So, are you telling me that Kubo doesn't know his characters anymore or what ? He wasn't out of character at all. About that Zabimaru thing, guess what ? It was made by Kubo again, I don't recall which tome it was shown, but there's been a sketch of Renji/Hisagi talking about their Zanpakuto when Mayuri showed up and told them he can turn their Zanpakuto to females... Again, consider it as a story that is here to delay the anime, period.

Sorry to break it for you, but OP's anime SUCKS (Fillers even worse), Naruto's anime SUCKS (Fillers worse too, I still remember those shitty fillers from part oneà. Only Bleach showed so far good animation and shit compared to others.

P.S : It's Aizen, not Iazen, also it's Urahara not Udahara, it's Hueco Mundo not Huako Mundo. Later.

OtakuModeEngage
February 27, 2012, 03:20 PM
people saying " they should drop Naruto " is just too damn funny :D :D :D... thanks for the good laugh .

on another note i agree with both Ninjastar and otakumode in some things... bleach fillers DO suck the most, but that doesn't mean Naruto fillers or one piece's are good cause they ARE not , they are terrible

and yeah... in terms of good animating and directing bleach anime is by far the best out of the big three right now.

XD, you shout have put NOT in capital, not ARE, it just has better emphasis.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------


Im not talking about the placement. I could care less about when they are supposedly supposed to take place. They are FILLER. They could be the most accurate things in the entire world and it still wouldn't matter because it is filler and thus non canon. What i meant was if just looked at filler for the big 3 and not the canon then bleach would rank at the top. Bleach filler is by far the most entertaining out of the 3. The quality is better than actually canon episodes and they have some of the best fights as well. I have watched most one piece filler and its meh but naruto filler is just trash. I don't think there has been one good filler arc expect maybe the gaara one back in part 1. It doesn't matter if bleach filler doesn't hold true to "bleach law"...Its filler...Its supposed to fill in the time between the manga and anime while giving you a damn good time. And in that matter it does so magically. Also like i said the anime has made the the fullbring arc into a masterpiece regardless of filler or not.

It's just a filler, so I don't care if its quality is good or not, but when I'm watching the anime, I want all the piece to fit together, not have the story line jump around with a sick of dynomite taped to its back.

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------


Please take in mind that this is a thread about Bleach's anime ending (or not). Not a detailed discussion whether the plot in fillers are good or bad, or discussion about the filler arcs.

I can understand the arguments arguing for the positive side of Bleach's anime ending, but quite frankly they don't outweigh the negative sides that would affect the Bleach franchise, not to mention the manga specifically. An anime is directly tied to a series' exposure in Japan (and internationally), and thus its popularity. If the anime would end (which it's not), it would severely hurt Bleach's popularity even further. There's a reason why every series wants an anime adaption, because it functions as a safety net. It's a superb way of advertising the series and broadening its exposure, thus increasing the population's interest in the series. It's a win-win situation both for Shueisha and the respective anime studio. An anime attracts new viewers, many of whom later buy the manga as well, as well as opens up the possibility for heavy TV advertisement and further franchise development. When the anime makes the manga more popular, the manga in turn also attracts more viewers for the anime and thus makes it more popular. Having an anime basically equals "having made it" for a mangaka, as in the series having successfully taken roots and established its position in the market.

While Kubo has been established for years and the anime has been a long running one, ending it would be highly counterproductive both for the studio and manga, and would be bad business. It would quite frankly be a stupid move from a business point of view. Both the manga and anime would lose fans, the manga would make less money by being less popular, and the anime (if it returns later) would be starting on a level below its current level as it would have to build up to its previous popularity and position (although not from zero like new anime have to). Not to mention that fillers are usually (which applies to Naruto too) more popular in Japan than the actual canon episodes, so making fillers is actually a smart move from a business standpoint.



I guess you missed out on the two years worth of fillers between Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. That's what Bleach should do to maintain a good business and at the same time increase the gap between the anime and manga more significantly.

True, an anime is important to the success of the manga, but after so many years of the Bleach anime, people all over the world read the Bleach manga, it won't lose any popularity. And I didn't say to copy Naruto, I said to put Bleach on Hiatus and return with Bleach 2 like how Naruto has Naruto Shippuden.

---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------


But the problem is, the overall quality of the series. Should they sacrifice quality over profits?? granted, the Japanese audience don't care that much about the quality, but are you sure that having two years worth of fillers (like Naruto) for Bleach is a good idea?? fillers may be fine and all for the Japanese, but if it drags out, it will eventually tank the ratings in Japan too, wouldn't it??

So, IMO instead of using two years worth of fillers, (which will eventually hurt the series rather than help it) taking a hiatus would be a good idea wouldn't it??

I completely agree, a two year Hiatus and then a return to straight story line would be a billion times better than a anime ridden with holes broken apart by fillers every other ten episodes. There is such a thing as fillering a series to death.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------


shitty are you sure from this because i think you are wrong because soul eater was an great anime

I doubt you read the Soul Eater manga, which is way more amazing then the anime and is still running. I hate when they give animes a crappy fake ending just because it doesn't have the popularity to keep running, jeeze, just let it finish the arc properly and shut her down.

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------


So, you saying that just because a filler doesn't fit, it sucks ? lol what ?

1- Ran'Tao wasn't even mentioned to be the first head of the scientific division, it was said that she was the leader of the group of scientists that were creating Bounts, get your facts straight.

2- Again, you should watch fillers after realizing that they're just there to stop the anime from catching up the manga. If you don't get that straight, you'll just stop enjoying those fillers. There's a reason they're not fuckin called CANON material, even if those fillers were made by Kubo for the case of Bleach, still not Canon, therefore just think of it as a story (Although I agree that the timing was poorly choosen).

3- Are you serious ? Put Byakuya completely out of character ? So, are you telling me that Kubo doesn't know his characters anymore or what ? He wasn't out of character at all. About that Zabimaru thing, guess what ? It was made by Kubo again, I don't recall which tome it was shown, but there's been a sketch of Renji/Hisagi talking about their Zanpakuto when Mayuri showed up and told them he can turn their Zanpakuto to females... Again, consider it as a story that is here to delay the anime, period.

Sorry to break it for you, but OP's anime SUCKS (Fillers even worse), Naruto's anime SUCKS (Fillers worse too, I still remember those shitty fillers from part oneà. Only Bleach showed so far good animation and shit compared to others.

P.S : It's Aizen, not Iazen, also it's Urahara not Udahara, it's Hueco Mundo not Huako Mundo. Later.

1. No, you check your facts, it was the Science Division that created the bounts, it was the science division that hide the joker crest all over the seroti (yeah, i spelled it wrong, suck it up), and the anime did say she was its leader.

2. There is simply no reason a filler can't reasonably fit into the story. Once again, I don't care if they are simply fillers, when I'm watching the anime I don't want it filled with plot holes created by brainless fillers. Really?! Really? Do we really need a filler to cut up an epic fight?! What the fuck is that?

3. Bayakuya is completely out of character, he is too prideful and lawful to play the part of a double agent. Turn the Zanpakuto to females? That is not to say turn them into human females, and if it was Kubo who decided this, then what the hell was he thinking, he can't even keep his own story straight.

No doubt, I state myself that One Piece and Naruto fillers suck, but at least they don't fill the series with plot holes.

Mayumura
February 28, 2012, 05:16 AM
X

1. No, you check your facts, it was the Science Division that created the bounts, it was the science division that hide the joker crest all over the seroti (yeah, i spelled it wrong, suck it up), and the anime did say she was its leader.

2. There is simply no reason a filler can't reasonably fit into the story. Once again, I don't care if they are simply fillers, when I'm watching the anime I don't want it filled with plot holes created by brainless fillers. Really?! Really? Do we really need a filler to cut up an epic fight?! What the fuck is that?

3. Bayakuya is completely out of character, he is too prideful and lawful to play the part of a double agent. Turn the Zanpakuto to females? That is not to say turn them into human females, and if it was Kubo who decided this, then what the hell was he thinking, he can't even keep his own story straight.

1. Dude, maybe you understood it wrong

2. I don't know what plot holes are you talking about but there is no one. Don't take fillers so serious they are just like bleach movies: watch and enjoy.

3. He were double agent because of his pride. He can do anything to protect it: kill sister, be double agent, anything. It was his "private" thing, he wanted to kill Kouga and do not want Gotei 13 to interfere, because if they kill Muramasa Byakuya could never have his revenge.

Schabrak
February 28, 2012, 10:02 PM
And that's okay, it is your opinion of him that is unable to act out of character[... the german version of that idiom sounds much better: nicht über seinen [eigenen] Schatten springen können/being unable to jump out of your shadow], but sometimes you have to change and adapt to a situation like the Gotei 13 did after Ichigos great deeds two years back.

Well names are names, you wouldn't like to be called weirdly too.^^ Those who watch anime only are to blame themself for that stupidity[it sounds much harsher with only one translation for ten terms (http://www.dict.cc/?s=stupidity)] Imo.

Jammin
February 29, 2012, 10:59 PM
I love that kind of animation, it breaths life into the usual animation. Some of the best scenes of animations have a similar style to that Imo. Or are you just disappointed, because you are not familiar with this? A bit of exegeration wouldn't hurt for a lot of long running series. I really don't know what you you could possibly think is not awful about that. I'm all for the introduction of various styles of animation but that isn't a matter of style that's just..... bad.

Pain's looks like entirely different guy in everyone of those scenes, in most of them he doesn't even look humanoid.


http://youtu.be/ow0hRopXlEI
Section #6 Was a roadrunner homage, which was hopefully unintentional, but still bad in one of the most dramatic scenes in all of Naruto.
Section #5 Was an attempt to show they impact from Naruto's punch but Pain's head turned into an amorphous blob halfway through. Loosing every hint of skeletal structure.
Section #4 Had a so many things wrong with it I don't even know where to start.
Section #3 Was supposed to be upward perspective shot but they completely screwed up his features.
Section #2 Looks like he looked like a freehand attempt to drawn Pain in motion.. by an animator's 7 year old kid in crayon. It's almost bad enough to look like something I'd draw (not quite though....as I truly SUCK at drawing).
Section #1 Pain got hammered like a nail into the ground until only his head was sticking out. Which is absolutely funny, but not appropriate because that Pain body is not, I repeat NOT, supposed to be invulnerable! As an added bit of hilarity the hole isn't nearly big enough for his shoulders, so it looks like he is coming up from the ground as opposed to pounded into it.

I have absolutely no problem with different art styles but adaptations are about conveying a story through the medium of animation and Studio Pierrot's ad-libs have a nasty habit of undercutting the story instead of helping to express it. Which is my core point.

And it might be for the best that they dropped Beach because whether it returns a few years down the road as an final season(like Inuyasha) or as Ova's, or a series of movies. Because in those formats it will be truly be Kubo's story and not Kubo's story watered down.

Schabrak
March 01, 2012, 05:18 AM
Let's agree to disagree, not every adaption is/has to be 1:1, look at Finchers version of Millennium trilogy, it can be a different take on a certain medium. If you don't like it, no problem, it's your opinion but not mine.

Pain and the fight were intentionally drawn that way, I would like to see a kid draw animation like that. It's about conveying the fast movement of the fight and they have done it pretty good Imo. How do you think a face looks like being hit by 100+ mile/s fist!? Think rational for a second, how do you think if would look with ninja moving as fast as cars, feet would become a blur from all the movement. And yeah it's exegerated, but this is about people summoning rhinos and spill tons of water out of their mouths...

At least the last episodes look fantastic, nice farewell, even if it's just a temporary stop.

Jammin
March 02, 2012, 05:26 PM
Let's agree to disagree, not every adaption is/has to be 1:1, look at Finchers version of Millennium trilogy, it can be a different take on a certain medium. If you don't like it, no problem, it's your opinion but not mine. If you want to agree to disagree that's fine by me but if bring up something that I do not think is correct I will say so and I think you are incorrect on quite a few things here.


Pain and the fight were intentionally drawn that way, I would like to see a kid draw animation like that. It's about conveying the fast movement of the fight and they have done it pretty good Imo. That was not an example of exaggerated blur of motion this is an example of straight up blown artwork. I mean it doesn't even resemble Pain even when he isn't in moving fast either; unless you call it an abstract interpretation.

Look back to the "Vally of the End fight" and you'll see sever examples of that free-flowing animation style done well, this was an example of it done as poorly as it can possibly be done. -_-;


How do you think a face looks like being hit by 100+ mile/s fist!?
http://youtu.be/TyvRpU0ztFY

Kinetic energy transfers from the fist to the head. They recipient's face never looks soft. The nose, teeth, jaw, and cheekbones continue to exist; even if they appear to be breaking, flexing, and pushing inward. I could show you a dozen examples just like it. Several from Naruto itself.

In the Naruto scene it's like somebody flicked a water-balloon shaped like Pain's head. It didn't convey much of a sense of impact, it just looked silly.:-_-


Think rational for a second, how do you think if would look with ninja moving as fast as cars, feet would become a blur from all the movement. And yeah it's exegerated, but this is about people summoning rhinos and spill tons of water out of their mouths... I am thinking rationally. When you are running at what point do your feet lift over the knee. That's why the roadrunner thing is silly when you are running your feet don't move in an oval shape(at least not unless you dislocated both your knees) It' not even an approximation of human movement.

Just because fantastical things happen in the manga doesn't mean it's ok for the animator to suddenly switch to animating in such an absurd and low quality way.:notrust

----------------------------------------------------------

You know what the worst part of that whole thing was, and the part the underscores my point about Studio Pierrot's fight filler, is that in the canon work Kyuubi-Naruto never lands a hit on Pain in Kyuubi mode. Not a single one!

In the manga Pain gets his shinra tensei deflected back into his face and he gets part of his robe burned off when the Kyuubi fires off a kyuubi-cero, but in the manga scene that part is supposed to be an adaptation of Kyuubi-Naruto isn't supposed to lay so much as finger on him.

Which is important because Deva Pain was never supposed to be unkillable, just hard to get to; because of Shinra Tensei. And that was supposed to be one of the big sources of tension for that fight. Sage Naruto killed the Chakra Absorbing Pain with a single punch to the face.

So most of those badly done scenes should never have been done in the first place.

Schabrak
March 02, 2012, 07:01 PM
I said I do not agree, you can post ten pages full of text and it wouldn't change my mind, there is no way you could convince me. People can't run as fast a the ninja in Naruto do or use jutsu so fantasy fiction can be depicted as the key animator in this case wants it to be. He created something original, something different and unusual.

You can't live with that style, I can. It's not your thing and it will likely not be animated like this again, because most Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care. :)

edit: I don't see how that's low quality from deviating from the original, but that's your opinion, so it's okay.

Zeltrax
March 02, 2012, 08:18 PM
You can't live with that style, I can. It's not your thing and it will likely not be animated like this again, because most Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care. :)
Well sure, everyone have opinions, just like everyone have the right to bitch about things.
I'm pretty sure it'll be okay if one day everyone starts hating on your favourite series and everyone started hating on a hero, despite him being a good guy and all, despite it being the truth but then, the truth doesn't count, opinions does, so people don't see the objective truth and instead
"stfu, I don't care, haha its my opinion".

For your information, one of the reason forums exists is because people can post their opinion to get a better understanding of the overall picture and what other people thinks and


because most Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care. :)when most of the world is saying something is terrible, objectively, it is terrible, it is shit.
It doesn't matter however you praise it or so, the rest of the members will still think its terrible because the truth is it is terrible.
If you are going to say that you actually enjoyed that crap which most people did not, than at least put in the effort to rebut and say why when
Jammin brings up his points which made sense, instead of going

but that's your opinion, so it's okay.
you can post ten pages full of text and it wouldn't change my mind, there is no way you could convince me. If a forum is a matter of people opinions to you that doesn't matter and it won't change your mind of crap still being crap, I wonder why you bother at all.
This is ridiculous. You don't bother to debate or try to convince people why your "awesome art" that you admire is good and what you're doing, felt like trolling or really childish.

OtakuModeEngage
March 02, 2012, 09:31 PM
@ Zeltrax

Wow, are you serious?! "When most of the world is saying something is terrible, objectively, it is terrible, it is shit," I mean, I personally agree that the art work in question is rather crappy, but I don't think anyone has the right to say what another thinks or believes is shit just because most people don't agree. The kind of robotic cold society where everyone agrees wholeheartedly is bullshit, no, its a nightmare. A forum is a place to discuss the topics we collectively find interesting, not a place to slander and ridicule each other. That being said, of course I agree that there is no point even entering a forum if you are not willing to fight for your believes with adequate reason and have open mind to accept the facts that crush them; but to go as far as to say what he thinks is shit, is too far. Cool your head. When Schabrak said "its not your thing", that was his argument; putting the facts of how a scull realistically flexes to a punch aside, he simply enjoys the art. Perhaps this seems odd to us, we who enjoy the realms of realism, but he simply likes what he likes and it can't be helped. "Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care." If anything, this is his ascent and surrender to the gravity of our facts, but that regardless of them, he still likes his art, so leave him be. When one surrenders, why continue the war?

That being said, I imagine soon all our post will be deleted as we are so far off topic it is impossible for me to bullshit an argument for once.

Schabrak
March 02, 2012, 09:31 PM
Zeltrax
Did you read my previous posts? It seems like you didn't. I read through yours and what did I get out of it? Nothing persuasive. What brings me a recital of the things he sees as flaws, when I don't see those as such, I see those as the work of an powerful key-animator. I've mentioned that before, so why would I have to repeat myself? I won't debate because there is no reason to debate, if we have clearly different set opinions of what is okay and what is not. Jammin didn't convince me, as I won't be able to convince him in this argument, I just save the time for both of us. I would argue if it would give a benefit, do it in terms of plot and story, but this would be a lost case on both of us. Did I make myself clear enough?

P.S.: Did Naruto became the best manga ever released in the us for being the #1? Hell no!

P.S.S.: I really don't care what the majority thinks, look what it got us in the past, burning people and shitty music.

edit: I don't need to surrender, when there's no war to fight. I love good realisitic art too, so long live diversity! I'm quiet interested in reading your book recommendation though, feminists seem to hate it.

OtakuModeEngage
March 02, 2012, 09:40 PM
Mod... I never thought I of all people would ask this, but please put a stop to this war about Naruto animation on this Bleach thread, and delete the resent personal post filled with ridicule that have no place on this or any thread; they can PM that BS.

Zeltrax
March 02, 2012, 10:03 PM
This will prob get delete but I want to address a few things.


@ Zeltrax

Wow, are you serious?! "When most of the world is saying something is terrible, objectively, it is terrible, it is shit,"
I guess I went overboard there and I apologize I'm sorry. but what I was trying to say,


I mean, I personally agree that the art work in question is rather crappy, but I don't think anyone has the right to say what another thinks or believes is shit just because most people don't agree. The kind of robotic cold society where everyone agrees wholeheartedly is bullshit, no, its a nightmare.
it's true that what one believes to be a masterpiece may be crap to another one but when everyone straight-out points and says the reasons for why it is a terrible piece of work.. you really have to stop and see why it's so bad. Instead of posting why you don't accept and replying to the reasons why , giving "I don't fucking care" is just plain rude .

It's much more constructive, despite this not being the right thread, to actually reply and state your opinion on why you believe it is good as opposed to people who don't, instead of "don't fucking care"...
I'm not saying that there's wrong in what sch's like. what I'm actually trying to say is that when people says that it's bad, and when the majority thinks so, disregarding all of that with something like this
You can't live with that style, I can. It's not your thing and it will likely not be animated like this again, because most Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care.


is missing the entire point of the forum in the first place:


A forum is a place to discuss the topics we collectively find interesting, not a place to slander and ridicule each other.


That being said, of course I agree that there is no point even entering a forum if you are not willing to fight for your believes with adequate reason and have open mind to accept the facts that crush them; but to go as far as to say what he thinks is shit, is too far.
Let me repeat this, I'm not saying that what he likes is shit, yes I did post it in a way that seems that way but really,
when alot of people are referring to something as "bad" and "terrible", objectively it is view as such. Do you start reading something when most of the world says its bad? I don't think people usually does.
I used the word objectively, which means realistically. I'm not saying its completely terrible, I'm just saying its known to be one of the worse episodes yet and nothing will change.

I agree that saying it is "shit" is going too far and its my bad.. but it still doesn't change the truth that is it bad.
What I'm saying is that what he likes is bad objectively and him saying that ten pages of post won't convince him is like stepping on people who actually puts out critical points on why the episode was so bad.



Cool your head. When Schabrak said "its not your thing", that was his argument; putting the facts of how a scull realistically flexes to a punch aside, he simply enjoys the art. Perhaps this seems odd to us, we who enjoy the realms of realism, but he simply likes what he likes and it can't be helped. "Naruto anime watchers have the same opinion as you, but I don't fucking care." If anything, this is his ascent and surrender to the gravity of our facts, but that regardless of them, he still likes his art, so leave him be. When one surrenders, why continue the war?
No, the entire reason I'm still posting here was because Jammin responded to Sch's comments about the episode, one of the examples is the punch and 100 m/s , it's not realistic and he believes it to be so. He didn't post it in a way that seems to be like he enjoyed it for the art, Jammin's reply was on the mark on what was wrong about sch's post and it wasn't his opinion, it was the truth. That wasn't how the face should look like after a punch of 100m/s and not how legs should look like when moving like roadrunner.
The reason why I actually posted a reply to him was because of how he completely disregarded Jammin's post and went "I don't fucking care" on him.
It leaves a bad taste and made me feel like, wow, I can do that to anyone in this place if I want to whenever they disagree with me.


You guys are right that things are going off topic and I've gone too far but if I don't post what I think, I won't be satisfied.

Jammin
March 02, 2012, 10:17 PM
@Schabrak
It isn't a fight, it's a discussion, or at least it's supposed to be, but you seem to be getting a little upset here so I think this will be my last post on this subject for the foreseeable future.(it's only a cartoon after all....)

I was making a point about a specific characteristic of Bleach's animation studio, Studio Pierrot, (which is topic relevant) by bringing up a rather famous example of the kind of thing I was talking about. Something that I believe may make this cancellation something Bleach fans might be grateful for in the long haul.

Now I did my best to back up everything I said with both my reasons for thinking what I do along specific examples and addressed each in a manner which was, I hope, clear and specific. Which was intended to bring you a little closer to understanding why I think what I do, whether or not you agree with it.

I was, and am, genuinely surprised that you thought that animation was good and truth be told I'm no closer to understanding why that is now than when the conversation started. But it seems clear this is conversation is not going any place good so I'm just going to drop the subject.

Schabrak
March 02, 2012, 10:25 PM
I love that kind of animation, it breaths life into the usual animation.

Let's agree to disagree, not every adaption is/has to be 1:1, look at Finchers version of Millennium trilogy, it can be a different take on a certain medium. If you don't like it, no problem, it's your opinion but not mine.

Pain and the fight were intentionally drawn that way ... It's about conveying the fast movement of the fight and they have done it pretty good Imo. ... And yeah it's exegerated, but this is about people summoning rhinos and spill tons of water out of their mouths...

Zeltrax
What brings me a recital of the things he sees as flaws, when I don't see those as such, I see those as the work of an powerful key-animator. I've mentioned that before, so why would I have to repeat myself?
What so hard to understand about this? It didn't try to be realisitc, it didn't try to be normal. I defended unnusual, undrealisitc animation, gave reasons to it and said it's my opinion. Why would you try to convince me, you are no missionary, are you?

I may was angered by Zeltrax for the idiocy that came at first and for which he apologized.

OtakuModeEngage
March 03, 2012, 12:38 AM
What so hard to understand about this? It didn't try to be realisitc, it didn't try to be normal. I defended unnusual, undrealisitc animation, gave reasons to it and said it's my opinion. Why would you try to convince me, you are no missionary, are you?

I may was angered by Zeltrax for the idiocy that came at first and for which he apologized.

Why try to convince you? Is that not why we are all on a forum, to discuss our opinions and convert others to them if we may? However, I understand you weren't trying be realistic, and that's why you said you didn't care about the scientific facts that Jammin was presenting, you just liked the impact of the art. However they took offence when you said you don't give a fuck, so please keep in mind your diction.

Miyagi
March 03, 2012, 07:05 PM
I moved all the off-topic posts from Bleach TV Anime Ending on March 27 thread. Please post your opinions about Bleach fillers in this thread.

Schabrak
March 05, 2012, 02:32 PM
Please don't ignore the previous post (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/33782-Bleach-Fillers-Killing-the-Story?p=2805820&viewfull=1#post2805820) before you answer to this.

Don't exegerate what I wrote! Would it make you happier if there stood "I don't fucking care", because I don't care that you hate that style and I feel no need to defend my position aside from what I wrote. What would I get out of answering to point one to six, when they state the same?

The whole scenes are so out of order, that I can't order them into the manga or it's just an effect of the anime direction, so it would be nice if you could provide detail like chapter and page to compare.

6. It's not like in the manga, it's like in that western cartoon, to unserious for an important scene.
-> Does looking less realistic, less as in the manga make it less impactful? To each his own, I have no problem.
5. It's an amorphous blob, not a real skull.
-> It suit the rest of the animation style used in the episode. To each his own, I have no problem.
4. There are so many things wrong with this scene, you won't name one.
-> So it's not the same fight we have seen in the manga, big problem, it was awesome to me too in it's 0wn way.
3. He doesn't look like the Yahiko-Pain I like. Is it suppoesed to be this scene (http://www.mangareader.net/93-444-1/naruto/chapter-439.html)?
-> That's not a big of a surpise after the rest of the episode. They chose a different angle and a tense face, I don't see the problem.
2. It's looks like it's drawn by a child.
-> Directors or key animators choice to make it look morphic, fitting into the rest of the animation.
1. This is not canon and doesn't make sense.
-> It sure is not, it's over the top as the rest of the episode. Yahiko-Pain is not suppossed to have an indestructible immortal body and the crack is not big enough, but it's not trying to be realistic as the rest of the clips has already shown. All in all they did show emotions on his face, was that a big flaw for you too? Because it did not step out of line with the rest of the episode.


I chose to defend the episode, even when I was averted at my first time seeing it. I have no intention of claiming this to be the best animation ever, not by far, but because of the bashing and ignorance and lack of admission/confession/concession towards the studios approach. You hate it for a things it wasn't supposed to be, but what I wished or thought it would be. It was a suprise, for sure, but one I can live with and you seemingly can't. And to close the circle: I don't care if you hate if for the reasons you do. It was exaggerated, not in the same style as the rest ofthe series, not a perfect transition from the original manga source, but I enjoy that too.


And don't worry I keep my diction in mind, it's the rest that has to stop judging things with an unilateral view.

additional stuff: I never wrote that this scene mirrors realismus that it rather tries to "convey the fast movement", don't twist it up to your liking, totally love how you ignore the "And yeah it's exegerated" afterwards. Here are a couple of slowmo punches. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPqW3EMU1eg)



When most of the world is saying something is terrible, objectively, it is terrible, it is shit.
It doesn't matter however you praise it or so, the rest of the members will still think its terrible because the truth is it is terrible.

[later]=>

I'm not saying its completely terrible, I'm just saying its known to be one of the worse episodes yet and nothing will change. I agree that saying it is "shit" is going too far and its my bad.. but it still doesn't change the truth that is it bad.
It's time decide: So is it shit, terrible or both and is it those things for you or for most[got to love generalizations]? Don't backpedal, but state your clear and genuine opinion.

I build my subjective opinion after watching 800+ different series/ova/movies, it's not better or worse than any others, but it's mine. You can tell me your opinion, but not how one should feel about it, because my personal enjoyment [or not] is entirely mine alone.

edit: You did even post me a picture of how a face punch should look like, but look how Brook is running (http://eatmanga.com/index.php/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-659/15.jpg?action=big&size=original). Could it be the same as Pain did? :p

vizardichigo
March 05, 2012, 06:20 PM
I think Bleach has BY FAR the best fillers of any anime....Naruto fillers are utter garbage...The fillers usually always have a good story, interesting characters, nice pace and excellent battles...Their placement is a bit retarded at times but what can they do? Let the anime catch up to the manga and stop the anime all together??? No i think not....People remember the fillers are there ONLY TO CREATE SPACE BETWEEN THE ANIME AND THE MANGA....Nothing more, nothing less....The story is totally irrelevant as its not canon and does not make a difference or affect the overall plot in no shape or form...So while i was pissed at the New Captain filler Arc's placement as well as the Zanpaktou rebellion Arc, the actual filler was pretty damn good...Good plot, nice characters, EPIC battles..... Dont forget some of the best fights in Bleach come from fillers. (Ichigo v Kariya, Ishida v the Bounto girl, Byakuya v Kariya, Ichigo vs Amagai, Byakuya and Senbonzakura v Renji and Zabimaru, Ichigo v Zangetsu, Byakuya v Kouga, Ichigo v Kageroza 1, Ichigo v Kageroza 3, Reigai Soifon v Komamura, Reigai Captains v Real Captains etc etc etc.......) In conclusion the placement and plot maybe off at times but it only there to create space between anime and manga....Nothing else and Bleach achieves this in the most entertaining way of all anime by a mile besides Samurai X.....

NinjaStar
March 06, 2012, 02:57 AM
I agree with vizardichigo. Bleach has the best filler out of the 3. I would even go as far as to say that it is the best anime out of the 3. I mean yes the other 2 are better in the manga(depends on your opinion of course) but bleach's anime is a work of art. Consistent animation. Great voice acting. Added filler in canon events doesn't take away from the overall moment but rather enhances it. The filler is much much much better than the others. Lol even the openings are great. The only time i have a problem with the anime is when its at a boring part of the story(which is the kubo's fault) or when they throw in a random filler. But hey what are you gonna do? The hueco mundo arc went on for 5 years. What was the anime supposed to do. Nel's random adventures? Whats up with Orihime? Chad stays relevent by destroying fodder hollow? Mayuri Kurotsuchi's weird and crazy science? Name that Kenpachi victim? They had no choice but to throw in a random filler arc and i must say they did a brilliant job with the Zanpakto and Kageroza arcs. Im happy that this has been cleared up and bleach is no longer getting cancelled but rather moved to a different time slot. I do find it ridiculous that this was even an issue considering just a few months ago naruto was fighting pirates and ghost....and struggled against them. Oh wellz..

EDIT: I guess i spoke too soon...R.I.P bleach :( I will try to remain a loyal fanboy week after week...