The Whitebeard Pirates vs The royal Shichibukai!!!

[kkck]

Who do you think will be the one to win in this fight between the strongest crew in the new world and the elite former pirates who serve the Word goverment?

Whitebeard Pirates:
Edward Newgate: The only pirate to fight evenly with gold roger.

16 division: We dont really know much about them but at least the commanders are very strong and a couple can probably fight evenly with shichibukai.

Royal Shichibukai:
Mihawk: Former rival of shanks, who can fight evenly with the current whitebeard.

kuma: Insaly strong, insane fruit and a very advance cyborg.

Doflamingo: Strange ability that controls people.

Jimbei: Former captain of the fishmen pirates who was said to be arlongs equal when he joined the shichibukai.

Blackbeard: Even the names says it, whitebeards natural enemy and shanks had reason to believe he was as strong or stronger than Whitebeard.

Moria: Defeated by the strawhats but was able to fight evenly with kaido, one of the 4 emperors of the new world.

Unknown member: who knows, could be the stronget Shichinukai.

[Black Hawk]

Its will be a big fight. We only know about WB that 9 commanders have the same strengh then Ace. I think when the Battle begin, WB go direktly to the most dangerous man BB. There only one point that speaks against BB, he cant use technic Black Hole(Gravity). When so much other marine guys in the near. Intersting for me is who of WB Crew will fight Mihawk. Also a point is when the exekution begins, when it is night. Morias strengh doesnt work. We also dont know which devil fruits have WB commanders. Like Marco 1 Division Commander. So there are many points we doesnt know.
Also Is there only the 6 Shichibukai or came there also with there people.
BB crew is strong, Kuma is the only one without any crew. We also know there are many good Swordfighters and Fishkarate fighters on FMI. So i think Jimbei bring also many good fighters.
So is not easy to say how the fight end or who is the oponion for another.

I only will hope that Battle becomes own chapter 1 to 3 chapter. This Battle i must the, end its time for a new information about the strengh and fruits.

[LoS]

I think it is far too early to draw up any battle scenarios, as we have seen in the latest chapter spoilers not everyone who is planned on fighting might show up.

[jeffhmwong]

I think Shanks crew will be on WB side. Very strong feel. Lolz

[Sorata]

When did they say that WB had 16 divisions???
You are not stating this just because of the number of boats that his fleet have???

[kkck]

When did they say that WB had 16 divisions???
You are not stating this just because of the number of boats that his fleet have???

I read in the one piece wiki the whitebeard pirates have 16 division. It says the source is the yellow databook so I took is as true.

[Trafalgar Law]

He has 16 divisions, I rode it from a chapter yesterday.. can't quite remember wich chapter, but he's only in 2 so one of them...

[MonkeyD.ODZ]

The most important point is who'll join that fight. WB,of course but how's about Shank?
And we are not sure all of Shichibukai 'll join too. BB,Doflamingo, Kuma 99.99% join but Mihawk, Jimbei, 7th Shichibukai?
The number of each side 'll dicide who'll win. I dont think WB can fight with 3-4 Shichibukai at the same time but if he has some help from yonkou the situation could be changed.
But I personally think WB 'll lose.

[Schabrak]

I want a "tie/draw" option. At the actual point, I can not even say for 1% which Grp will win. It's just impossible.

Added tie option

[MonkeyD.ODZ]

"draw" option ? It could happen . Shichibukai wont attack WB at the same time because each of them has own pride. And it'll increase a chance of WB side.

[danielkoburger]

it's defenitley hard to guess because there are so many open questions. Even the extend of each of their power mostly relies on pure guessing how it would be during a real fight.

i would though, by judging the amount of information offered in the manga and by the opening post that the WB would take it home. Just because the amount of people on a high level (shichibukai level like the one on thriller) is more on their side

[mugen]

No Way In hell, can white beard win!! Especially when not in full power. Must I remind you guys "Ace in not there!" ? Sure They could go and beat a couple. But Hawkeyes "The Strongest Swordsman" is there!!! Whitebeard will have his hands full there already. No way he can go against the others even if he beats hawkeye. They're just not as strong without Ace. if Ace was there, he could take at least one of the shichibukai or two. But yeah Whitebeard is dead.

[LoS]

But Hawkeyes "The Strongest Swordsman" is there!!!

You dont know that, that is your own assumption.

Before you reassure yourself that WB will lose you should weigh all the options first.

So far we don't know what Shichibukai will show up, nor do we know if even Kizaru will show up. The WG never planned on the Supernova to occupy their fighters for a prolonged period of time.

And then you also have wildcards who could enter the fray. Shanks and Dragon are possibles for showing up.

So before you say that WB losing is a certainty think about all the options.

[mugen]

he did vs. the shichibukai, and that they have all been summoned ..so yeah. If it all the shichibukai , then yeah whitebeard is dead :XD

and why would dragon or shanks show up :XD Haven't you seen how stubborn and confident whtebeard is :XD

[bebekhappy]

a tie it is...but that's only if WB's fleet only up against shicibukai. As strong as WB and his crew are if they're fighting shicibukai he'll most likely lose more than half his army or worst 70-80% of em will be annihilated, and that's how strong the shicibukai is i guess, even if Crocodile's still there and not lost and replaced with BB. and if the marines took part in the battle, well...you could say it's the end for WB for sure.

He's far too arrogant and over confident in his power and greatness alone, a person with that attitude will fall sooner or later. a join forces between the shicibukai and marines is something that even he "the greatest Whitebeard" should fear, Shanks know that and that's why he advise him to pull back Ace from his pursuit on BB cause he know something like this would happen, yet he refuse to listen and that made him lost another one of his precious commander by the hands of BB who is a Shicibukai by now and then go to war against a mighty force. this oldman must have lost his sense and needed to be taught that there's always someone or something stronger than you.

and i agree with mugen why Shanks bother to show up an help him while he refuses help or advice from him though i believe he already has a precaution if by any chance WB fall into government's hands, as for Dragon i never think he'll show up because he has his own way dealing with World Government, so helping out WB would not be an option.

[DutchPhoenix]

mihawk is there... and he must face zoro in the end so he cant die yet..

so WB will lose.

[LoS]

How do you know Mihawk is there? It is a summons, but as we saw at the last summons only 3 Shichibukai showed up to the meeting.

[bebekhappy]

but also what makes you think that he won't be there?about the last summons if you talk the one where we were introduced to Kuma and Doflamingo for the first time i think we all know that Mihawk was there, though he claimed to be neutral or whatever he said but he was there.

The way i see it Mihawk is a type of person who always seek for challenge and fun in a fight, he came all the way from GL to after the Krieg armada in east blue just because he's bored or something like that, then he met Zoro someone at that time just a mere swordman from the weakest sea, yet he let him live because he believe that he'll get strong enough to fight for "the best swordman in the world" title, again long before that we know he fight with Shanks in an equal match (is it?) then when they met up again he's not interested fighting Shanks because he thinks it was no fun fighting a one-armed man.

i think that he'll take part in this fight against WB,probably not because it's an order but only because he know he can fight with a lot of strong people in WB's crew.

and for another shicibukai i don't know what their intentions are, but when i see how Moria, Doflamingo, Crocodile, BB an maybe the other that we don't even seen yet, even though they are on the same side with the WG i believe all of them still have their own ambition, so with the fall of one of the "Yonkou" moreover it's the legendary Edward Newgate, the Whitebeard himself it'll be one less obstacle for them to achieve their own ambition...so yeah there'll at least one, two...five of them there if not all of them show up again WB.

[Akainu]

wasn't it said that it's a mandatory meeting? --> Mihawk will be there.
whether or not he will fight I don't know. that depends on his character.

[bebekhappy]

then...do you guys think that Oda will draw this battle? i mean 3-4 chapters might be okay, seeing how big WB's crew is and how many of Shicibukai will be involved and if marines HQ admirals and vice-admiral also engaged in fight i think 3-4 chapters won't be enough, assuming there'd be pre-battle chapters, the battle, and conclussion it could take, say 10 chaps, would that be enough?

if it dragged that long what would you think?should Oda skipped the battle scenes and just gives us the result will you be satisfied?i personally wanted to see how Oda drew the fight, i mean it'd be awesome to see...what about you guys?

[dsr]

I think that Oda WANTS to draw that battle.
Even if he could be a bastard and show the battle in flashbacks just to make us anxious.
IMHO he will show the battle via flashback, just to not spoil 2 shichibukai at the same time.

[DutchPhoenix]

marco vs mihawk
WB vs blackbeard ^^

[ANBU4U]

a tie it is...but that's only if WB's fleet only up against shicibukai. As strong as WB and his crew are if they're fighting shicibukai he'll most likely lose more than half his army or worst 70-80% of em will be annihilated, and that's how strong the shicibukai is i guess, even if Crocodile's still there and not lost and replaced with BB. and if the marines took part in the battle, well...you could say it's the end for WB for sure.

He's far too arrogant and over confident in his power and greatness alone, a person with that attitude will fall sooner or later. a join forces between the shicibukai and marines is something that even he "the greatest Whitebeard" should fear, Shanks know that and that's why he advise him to pull back Ace from his pursuit on BB cause he know something like this would happen, yet he refuse to listen and that made him lost another one of his precious commander by the hands of BB who is a Shicibukai by now and then go to war against a mighty force. this oldman must have lost his sense and needed to be taught that there's always someone or something stronger than you.

and i agree with mugen why Shanks bother to show up an help him while he refuses help or advice from him though i believe he already has a precaution if by any chance WB fall into government's hands, as for Dragon i never think he'll show up because he has his own way dealing with World Government, so helping out WB would not be an option.

I don't really get this though....If the WG can take the WB pirates on their own why the stalemate? Why not just take his head immediately?

They wouldn't provoke the other yonkou because they're unaffiliated.....Technically nothing that happens to WB is their concern....

So if WB gets no help from the yonkou when attacking the WG, why would they help if the WG attacked WB?

It just doesn't make sense that the Shichibukai can defeat WB's fleet without help from the Admirals.....

[LoS]

So if WB gets no help from the yonkou when attacking the WG, why would they help if the WG attacked WB?

These are pirates buddy, they kick another man while he is down. They want to take out their competition, and what better way than to sail over to a weakened WB crew after they have had a tango with the WG and finish them.

Its like when a shark smells blood in the water, it goes in for the kill. Some pirates have honor but others are ruthless.

[BlackHair]

If its only Wb crew vs Shichibukai .. well then I guess .. no idea lol xD

We dont know the abilities from commander of 1st and 3rd division of WB pirates and of course the remaining/hidden abilities of the Shichibukai. So how can u guys actually say group a or b will win ? :P What do we know so far?
WB the strongest man
Mihawk the strongest swordsman
WB Crew is well known and most likely feared and respected by many.
thats it.. i guess. correct me if I'm wrong.

As for that I predict Shanks will move as well and also Dragon. Since the WG seems to be busy, its perfect time for Dragon and his army to move. Dragon is independent so he wont join forces with WB or the other yonkou. If WB will accept Shanks or not wont bother him at all I believe, since Ace seems to be important for him (*father-son theory*xD). And I think every Shichibukai will take part on this war, cause if they shouldn't they have to fight WB on their own.

Anyway I dont thing this discussion will lead to anything.. :D

[ANBU4U]

These are pirates buddy, they kick another man while he is down. They want to take out their competition, and what better way than to sail over to a weakened WB crew after they have had a tango with the WG and finish them.

Its like when a shark smells blood in the water, it goes in for the kill. Some pirates have honor but others are ruthless.

That wasn't my point.

My point was if the WG knows they can take WB. And if they KNOW the other yonkou wont come to help him if they attack....why the stalemate?

Why not just pick the yonkou apart one by one? It makes no sense not to.....the only logical explanations are:

A) The WG is content with a stalemate with the pirates.
or
B) The WG isn't all that sure they can take WB.
or
C) The WG isn't all that sure they can take WB, AND still retain enough assets to control their territory.
or
D)The WG isn't sure whether or not the other Yonkou will help out, potentially bringing about a slightly modified explanation C.

[LoS]

Because the WG is not completely dumb. They know to take into account wild cards. There is no telling what Dragon and the Revolutionaries would do while the WG has vacated some of its forces to deal with WB. Just look what some random rookies are doing right now. They are taking up the time of one Admiral and the strongest Vice Admiral, no one could have foreseen that.

Plus WB in the past also had Ace at his disposal, and he is a very strong fighter. And the other Yonkou are a double edged sword. Not only could they clean up whats left of WB and his crew, but they could also wipe out a depleted WG force as well.

So from a tactical standpoint choices C and D would be the safest bet.

[ANBU4U]

Because the WG is not completely dumb. They know to take into account wild cards. There is no telling what Dragon and the Revolutionaries would do while the WG has vacated some of its forces to deal with WB. Just look what some random rookies are doing right now. They are taking up the time of one Admiral and the strongest Vice Admiral, no one could have foreseen that.

Plus WB in the past also had Ace at his disposal, and he is a very strong fighter. And the other Yonkou are a double edged sword. Not only could they clean up whats left of WB and his crew, but they could also wipe out a depleted WG force as well.

So from a tactical standpoint choices C and D would be the safest bet.

True, but the stalemate between the Yonkou and the WG seems to have been going on LONG before Ace arrived in WB's crew.

Ace only left Fuschia Village 3 years ahead of Luffy....I'll assume it took Ace a year to get to the NW, so that 2 years since Ace joined WB's crew. Surely the stalemate pre-dates Ace....meaning his loss shouldn't tip the balance so much the WG decided to provoke a war...

[LoS]

so much the WG decided to provoke a war...

Well duh, they knew what they were getting themselves into. They knew WB would come after one of his "sons." The WG would have done this before only if they could have taken one of his commanders captive, but up until now none of them have never served as punitive armies.

[Capone]

I predict Whitebeard dies.... but it wont be the end of his crew.. Marco or Ace will carry on with the crew and one of them will assume leadership

[paradoxe]

None of the Shichibukai can take WB alone, thats for sure. I'm guessing they'll need around at least 3 to take him down.

[Schabrak]

None of the Shichibukai can take WB alone, thats for sure. I'm guessing they'll need around at least 3 to take him down.
It's just a false argument, as we don't know if someone is as strong as WB. As if that wasn't pointed out already plenty times that we don't know how "strong" DonFlamingo, Mihawk, Jinbei and Kuma are compared to him.

[Raysen_ht]

When do you think the battle will begin??
Im thinking that next chapter the cliffhanger will be about this fight!! I hope we get to see a bit of Ace also!!!
But the battle will only beggin a few chapters in the future... Like after the pacifistas at SA are defeated and we get a definition in which SN will remain to fight Kisaru, and which will be able to flee (or be defeated already)...

Off: Schabrak... love ure new AV!! Who's that?

[Schabrak]

Somehow I think that will only see the outcome or only two or three chapters of fight, as Oda focuses on the Mugiwaras. He only shows us two or three chapters "off topic" a year, why would he change this time? Showing that fight would spoil so much of the Shichibukai, it wouldn't be interesting anymore.

Thats Hei from Darker Than Black.

[paradoxe]

It's just a false argument, as we don't know if someone is as strong as WB. As if that wasn't pointed out already plenty times that we don't know how "strong" DonFlamingo, Mihawk, Jinbei and Kuma are compared to him.

Theres a reason why WB is called the World's Strongest Man.

*rolls eyes*

Its definitely not a false argument, although it is speculation, which is why I included the 'I guess' bit in it. Rofl.

[Schabrak]

You can be god and there could stil be a creature that is able to kill/beat/bann/imprison you in some way. Strongest man in which way? Pure strength, fighting power, abilitys? We don't know, so there could be Shichibukai or Admirals who are able to fight him equaly. The guess had nothing to do with the point, that no Shichibukai is as strong as WB. Don Flamingo "should" be able to control him, even if WB was stronger, so let's wait and see.

[paradoxe]

You can be god and there could stil be a creature that is able to kill/beat/bann/imprison you in some way. Strongest man in which way? Pure strength, fighting power, abilitys?

Stop playing around with words.

Hes definitely THE strongest man, the most powerful, the best fighter. Why is there such doubt about it?

I don't see anyone questioning whether or not Mihawk is the top swordsman in the OP world..

Yeah I just don't think yu should label my post as a 'false statement', I guess we'll see what happens eh?

[Schabrak]

Odacchi has privatly given you information about characters, so it's okay? strongest man? Yes. Most powerful? No, there are four Younkou, which should be quiet same powerful. Most pirates under him? Could be. Sengokou should be called the strongest man, as he commands 3 admirals, and is highest ranked marine. Best fighter? We don't know. He and Shanks did seem equal in the sowrd on sword picture. And if you say Mihawk is the strongest wordsman yourself, WB should lose in a fight. But we can't say as it's not been shown. I doubt that I will answer again today. :P Bi-Bi.

[paradoxe]

Odacchi has privatly given you information about characters

THE hell are yu talking about mate?

It was in the manga, hes called the strongest man. Strongest = most powerful = best fighter

What did yu think Oda meant by strongest man?

Similarly, Mihawk is called the strongest swordsman, but yur not disputing that fact. Why are yu disputing this fact then?

Oda has stated hes the strongest man, the ONLY person to have matched Gol D Roger in a fight. Its FACT. Hes the strongest man as of this moment, no one is more powerful then him 1 on 1. Why is it so hard to accept?


He and Shanks did seem equal in the sowrd on sword picture. And if you say Mihawk is the strongest wordsman yourself, WB should lose in a fight.

Jesus yu dont get my point do yu?

Firstly, WB did NOT carry a sword. Are we reading different mangas?

Secondly, Mihawk IS the strongest swordsman in the world.

Swordsman SWORDSMAN READ IT A MAN WHO USES A SWORD.

BY CONTRAST, WB IS THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD.

MAN. MALE. HUMAN.

OK?!

[BlackHair]

Without doubt WB is the strongest man atm. The other 3 Yonkou are on his lvl, I guess it means the battle power of the entire crew is almost the same as WBs crew. But in a 1 vs 1 fight, no one should match WB.

Mihawk the strongest swordsman vs WB the strongest Man. Mihawk must be better with sowrds then WB, but if they should fight WB should be stronger I guess.

The sword clash between Shanks and WB has no meaning imo. Both were heated up, but if they were serious there should have been War between them. Since nothing was mentioned so far, it has no meaning. Also Shanks was once fighting Mihawk for the title strongest swordsman, so he must be also better then WB with swords. But all in all WB is the strongest :P

Back2Topic: Well I dont think the fight is going to happen anytime soon. I think the 3 days with Kizrau, Supernova and Co will take some chapters, then we will maybe see preparation. Like Schabrak said, Oda drew so far only a few chapter in a year about the world around SHs.

Somehow I get the feeling WB is going down and BB will take some power/influence to make him the ultimate enemy of Luffy. But like I said earlier, we cant predict the outcome, since there is so much things which are unrevealed so far.

[Raysen_ht]

You (and Schabrak) are right about Oda only drawing few chapters on the world Other than the SH, but i think now he is going to involve the SH in the World conflict!! I think that we need some information on the power level of the new world, and this fight (WB x Shishi) is a perfect oportunity to show us some stuff!!
I dont think the SH will meet all the Shishibukai... Why should they?? Its not like they are beeing hunted by the 7!!! So if the new ones arent introduced now, we may never see them!!
Maybe the stuff happening in SA will somehow influence the outcome of this MAJOR, world changing battle!!!!

[Fox666]

Since a Admiral is involded, it will eventually influence. What's to government if one of the strongest man doesn't show in the war?

[BlackHair]

Since a Admiral is involded, it will eventually influence. What's to government if one of the strongest man doesn't show in the war?Could u explain ur post more in words. Sry I just dont get it xD

edit: oh yea' should have better read the other posts :P

[Raysen_ht]

@blackhair
Ilovefoxes was commenting on my observation that the stuff going on at Shabondy might influence the war between WB and Shishi/WG... He was saying that the SH will keep an admiral busy and that can have major consequencies... get it now?


I really cant decide if i want WB to die in this battle... in one hand It would be a great way to develop the story, but on the other hand... he is too cool!!!!!!

[Schabrak]

THE hell are yu talking about mate?
It was in the manga, hes called the strongest man. Strongest = most powerful = best fighter
What did yu think Oda meant by strongest man?
Similarly, Mihawk is called the strongest swordsman, but yur not disputing that fact. Why are yu disputing this fact then? Just because Shanks is labled Red Hair, it does not mean that he is the only one with that hair color.
Oda has stated hes the strongest man, the ONLY person to have matched Gol D Roger in a fight. Its FACT. Hes the strongest man as of this moment, no one is more powerful then him 1 on 1. Why is it so hard to accept?
Okay here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/234/12-13/) he is "labeled" or "betitled" strongest man. Does it say somewere that he is the best fighter? AGAIN NO! Most Powerful pirare? MAYBE! Human? Hell no.
Besides that you seem to forget, that Gol is dead for over 10 YEARS. In that picture you also see that he is "hospitalized" = meaning ill and in most ceases weaker than usual.
Where am I disputing a fact? Mihawk being strongest swordfighter "should" win in a swordfight. Just because someone is strong as hell does not mean, that he can equaly fight as good with swords as in hand to hand.


Jesus yu dont get my point do yu?
Firstly, WB did NOT carry a sword. Are we reading different mangas?
Secondly, Mihawk IS the strongest swordsman in the world.
Swordsman SWORDSMAN READ IT A MAN WHO USES A SWORD.
BY CONTRAST, WB IS THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD.
MAN. MALE. HUMAN.
OK?!
Hm here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/) it sure looks like both have the same "force". Okay omg what a difference if Whitebeard uses a swordpole, because normal katana are to small for him. Shame on me.
By contrast, King Kong and Godzilla could be still nuked to death, nukes made by "weak" humans.
Calm down accept it. :E

@Rayen: Don Flamingo did just say that the Shichibukai should gather. We don't know if Sengokou wants his admirals to be involved in the battle. Kuma could teleport them there anytime, can't he?

[Raysen_ht]

OH yeah... ure right! we cant be sure the Admirals will also fight ...but i dont think the WG would let the opportunity to take out WB slipp by... And to increase the chances, they should use all the power availeble, shouldnt them?! But you´re right... Kuma could teleport them there anytime (assuming Kuma is not fighting at that moment, and is close to the admirals)

What do you think about my idea that if the remaining Shishibukai arent introduced now, we may never see them, cuzz nothing forces them to interact with the SH?!?

[paradoxe]

Okay here he is "labeled" or "betitled" strongest man. Does it say somewere that he is the best fighter? AGAIN NO! Most Powerful pirare? MAYBE! Human? Hell no.

Your point would be valid if his label was 'the most powerful pirate'.

However, from the link yu showed, it clearly states 'the strongest man in the world'..

which is kinda explicit i think


Where am I disputing a fact? Mihawk being strongest swordfighter "should" win in a swordfight. Just because someone is strong as hell does not mean, that he can equaly fight as good with swords as in hand to hand.

LOL

WHITEBEARD DOESN'T USE A SWORD

IF I RECALL CORECTLY HE USES A DAO, SO JUST BECAUSE MIHAWK IS THE BEST SWORDSMAN DOESN'T MEAN HE CAN BEAT WB.

MIHAWK IS A MAN IF I RECALL CORRECTLY.

STRONGEST MAN > MIHAWK.

I THINK.

[BlackHair]

Okay here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/234/12-13/) he is "labeled" or "betitled" strongest man. Does it say somewere that he is the best fighter? AGAIN NO! Most Powerful pirare? MAYBE! Human? Hell no.
Dude, u r just playing with words. Its obvious that u have sth against WB lol :P Since in OP pirates is all about fighting, it just have to be the same meaning: "strongest" and "best fighter".



Besides that you seem to forget, that Gol is dead for over 10 YEARS. In that picture you also see that he is "hospitalized" = meaning ill and in most ceases weaker than usual.
Indeed, he must be weaker that in his primetime like Garp. So lets say in his primetime he was a 10 now a 7 or 8. Oda described him as he is now the strongest man, so all other must be weaker then him, even tho he is "hospitalized".
Mihawk and Shanks could be a 5 or 6, damn close on WB but still weaker them him.



Where am I disputing a fact? Mihawk being strongest swordfighter "should" win in a swordfight. Just because someone is strong as hell does not mean, that he can equaly fight as good with swords as in hand to hand.
Yes, if both should just fight by only using swords Mihawk would probably win. But we don't know anything about WBs fighting style (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe he is hand to hand expert or even a sniper.. hell no maybe even a bowling expert.. who knows. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, i.e a man who uses a sword and WB is the strongest man. Its pretty obvious who is superior.

btw, its not paradoxe or me who r saying he is the strogest, rather Oda is. Oda the God of OP, if he says sth we as fans just have to accept, even if we dont wanne.


What do you think about my idea that if the remaining Shishibukai arent introduced now, we may never see them, cuzz nothing forces them to interact with the SH?!?
It could be right, but many ppl and me included would be disappointed. After all the big talk about the the Shichi, even before Shs entering the Grand Line not to show them is rly lame and sad lol. I hope it just not turn this way.

[Schabrak]

@Rasyen:Never seeing the rest of the Shichibukai... could not be, as Jinbei was forshadows back in the Arlong Park/Arc XD. And we already have seen Don Flamingos ability. So besides Jinbei and the last member no one of the Shichibukai is really of my interest right now.

@blackhair: I would be the last one to like to see a dead Whitebeard. He is Aces captain, so he must be a nice guy in some way too.^^

I'm not playing with words, I just discuss about what was given to us by Odacchi. He is the creater, he told us strongest man. Should I repeat all my arguments again? Hell no, 've lost my nerves.-_- Answer my question. Where was it said, that he is the best fighter now? .... the most powerfull right now? Let's give an example. Luffy may has the stronger attack power, but Zorro could still slice him up with his sword. Weapons were created because they are stronger than normal hands. :P Sword, Dao... who the fu**ing hell gives a s**t about it? Both have a edged sharp side to slice up things.

[Raysen_ht]

@Rasyen:Never seeing the rest of the Shichibukai... could not be, as Jinbei was forshadows back in the Arlong Park/Arc XD. And we already have seen Don Flamingos ability. So besides Jinbei and the last member no one of the Shichibukai is really of my interest right now.
Ok, we will see them, one way or another... but it would be to much of a coincidence if the SH meet with all the 7 lords!!! they have already come in contact with 4 of them!! That is too much as it is!! I dont think Oda will make a rookie mistake like that (i mean... what are the odds of a pirate crew meeting all 7...preety small chance isnt it?!?)... So imho we will get a spoil on the remaining Shishibukai in this fight agains WB!!
I certainly hope we do, cuzz that would mean we will get to see the fight (not all of it, but at least a good part, as opposed to just seeing the results)!! Which should be an AMAZING one!!

On another note... i think this discussion of you guys about stronger man/fighter/swordsman, is preety interesting, but be carefull... its getting close to bashing one another...

[Schabrak]

Wouldn't risk a warning again after my last little offending Sigs. XD I am just working with facts, so I await founded arguments, nothing else. If they can't deliver some good ones, it's my "win" in the discussion.^^

Yeah it would be like other typical shonen manga, where one gay had to fight all bad guys... I don't even want to see them fight with the Mugiwaras, but to seem them in a later point of the story. The Manga would lose much of it's interesting points and misterys through this. Even if they don't die, their reason to "exist" wouldn't be there anymore. Some of they can be hidden, just as the last two Younkou will stay hidden for the next year or two.

[BlackHair]

I'm not playing with words, I just discuss about what was given to us by Odacchi.
At this point, after rereading my own post I think I should apologize. The "playing with words" comment was rude and it wasn't my intention at all, sry about that ;]


On another note... i think this discussion of you guys about stronger man/fighter/swordsman, is preety interesting, but be carefull... its getting close to bashing one another... Its just a simple conversation/discussion, don't think anything will happen xD btw I would like to hear ur opinion as well :D


Should I repeat all my arguments again? Hell no, 've lost my nerves.-_- Answer my question. Where was it said, that he is the best fighter now?
There is no need to repeat ur arguments, I read them and am taking everything in consideration. So let me repeat, u r saying a muscular man with a lot of power (strong), could lose to a better fighter who has less power, right ? If yes, then I think that's the mistake. Don't rly know how to explain, but well... One Piece is a shounen Manga, normally in those Manga everything is about fighting/skills. I think on this case u can't divide "strong" and "best fighter" based on the real world, since they have the same meaning in a shounen world.

Let me answer ur question: By being the best fighter u r automatically the strongest! What's the point in saying WB is the strongest, if there is someone stronger then him around ?! Why would Oda do that? makes no sense imo. And if its only about physical power (stronger; as I assume u said, correct me if Im wrong), wouldn't have Giants generally more power? If a Giant is included as a "Man", which i guess it is, same goes for Fishman.


the most powerfull right now?
Of course, since there is no other information given. To remind u: WB may introduced as the strongest man for a few years ago, but in the OP world just a few month or even weeks has passed.


Let's give an example. Luffy may has the stronger attack power, but Zorro could still slice him up with his sword. Weapons were created because they are stronger than normal hands. :P Sword, Dao... who the fu**ing hell gives a s**t about it? Both have a edged sharp side to slice up things.
So like I said earlier where does it say, WB is a only sword user? Do we have any infos on WBs abilities? Does he have DF? Can he masturbate while playing Playstation 3? We just don't know anything about him, beside his character and that he is the strongest man in the world, again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

To ur example: Indeed, Weapon were created since they are stronger then normal fists. But ppl are different, not everyone can use weapon properly. If Luffy and Zorro should fight by only using fists, Luffy would win. But he would lose, if they r only allowed to use swords. Same goes for legs (Sanji) and pistols (Ussope).


If they can't deliver some good ones, it's my "win" in the discussion.^^
Nah, everything is open. That's a discussion is about ^^

All in all, I just can't see Oda going through trouble introducing him as the strongest, if he isn't. No matter how hard I think, it just makes no sense for me. By being the best fighter u r the strongest. Even in real life, u cant call some1 the strongest if there is a better fighter around, its just too weird. -> in germany, berlins streets xD

*************

Yea' I also think the SHs are not gonna meet the remaining Shichi, except BB. The reaming guys will be probably shown at the upcoming war. Same for Akainu, and the unshown Yonkou.

[Raysen_ht]

Its just a simple conversation/discussion, don't think anything will happen xD btw I would like to hear ur opinion as well

I dont have any solid arguments on the matter, thats why i havent said anything about it until now, but since u asked... ill give my opinion...

Imo, this discussion is about what each of you uderstood by the words "strongest man in the world" when WB was introduced
Blackhair thinks that it meant WB dont have anyone who could beat him in a fight atm, no matter what the opponet used...
Schabrak thinks that it was only about streangh, and nothing else...so he is stronger than any giants/fishmans in his opinion
*correct me if im wrong... its just the impression your arguments gave to me*

This has become a "faith" discussion... one believes it means one thing and the other another thing... i dont think any of you can convince the other that their point of view isnt the right one anymore...

I agree with blackhair... I think that there is none that could beat WB, in whatever way, in a 1x1 fight... unless there were some kind of restriction (like if it was only allowed to fight with swords... mihawk would win)

But i do get schabrak´s point... if Oda meant only brute streangh, someone who uses some kind of weapon, or someone who was a better tactician, or had a plan could beat WB... but i dont believe that was what Oda wanted to say

[paradoxe]

Ok, so in yur opinion, WB is the strongest, i.e. he could beat anyone in an arm wrestling match, but not in a fight?

Riiighhhtttt

This is such a stupid argument :(


Can he masturbate while playing Playstation 3?

I lol'd.
:D

Btw, wheres the review for the 508th chapter x.x

[Schabrak]

I walk about possibilities, you should do too, using words like could or should. I'm never talking about things as if they are certain, what you do. Saying, that we will have to see fights, if your or my oppinion is right, did not stop you from reacting again and again. Let's just wait for the big fight.

EDIT: ... wrestling |= real fight; wrestling |= sword fight; you|= won't stop :p Just think of it as an RPG

WB:
strength: 10
hand to hand combat: 9
swordmanship: 8

Mihawk:
strength: 9
hand to hand combat: 8
swordmanship: 10

That's just an example, don't interpret in any other way. Both have their advantages, where they would dominate each other(not especially win). That's it, I never told different. It's not that hard to comprehend, is it?

Luffy:
strength: 8
hand to hand combat: 9
swordmanship: 2

Zorro:
strength: 7
hand to hand combat: 4
swordmanship: 9

(Different scale to arange their powers.) It should be more clear this way. Even if they have an nearly equal strength, they still have a huge advantage in their special combat ability. Even if Luffy is stronger in pure strength, in a hand to hand vs sm fight it would be hard to judge the winner, while fighting in their specialitys they win when only fighting h-t-h or just with swords.

[paradoxe]

Dude obviously we're assuming that the opponents are engaged in a fair 1v1 fight, using the skill or weapon they are most familiar with . Or else, obviously Zoro could beat Luffy in a sword fight, Sanji could beat Lucci in a kicking match, and what not. Why would WB use swordsmanship in a fight if he doesn't know how to use a sword? Its the same thing as saying Lucci is definitely more powerful then Enel in a match using Rokushiki, even though in a proper fair 1v1 fight, Enel would probably win because Lucci can't even touch Enel. Also, a smarter opponent might be able to win a 1v1 fight if they tampered with teh fight, making it unfair. But right now, we are assuming that it is a fair one v one fight, where neither has an unfair advantage.

This isn't sport damnit, they don't fight each other using the same weapons or sets of skills.. they fight each other using what theyre best at, and whatever WB is best at also makes him overall the STRONGEST fighter in the OP world. He was the only one capable of fighting Gol D Roger to a draw, no one else could fight him to a standstill - not Aokiji (he was aVA then), not Garp, not Kaidou, not Crocodile NOONE.

OK?

[Schabrak]

Crapadalic... swordmanship= alls kinds of edged weapons, hand to hand = all kind or kobat without weapons.

That aside, why do you specify special combats arts/martials arts? They are all in the same category. Than you added, logia type abilitys. That's a completly different world, as logia types, have no solid body. Yeah most probably Aokiji and Co could not overcome Roger, as they probably never fought each other and were not as experiencend as they are now.

This isn't sport damnit, they don't fight each other using the same weapons or sets of skills.. they fight each other using what theyre best at, and whatever WB is best at also makes him overall the STRONGEST fighter in the OP world.
I thought he was the strongest man, not fighter. Clarify yourself. It's not the same. Read my posts again, as I would repeat myself for the hundreds time. Rayen (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=965603&postcount=53) told it best. We have difffrent points of view. Just wait for the fight.

[paradoxe]

Crapadalic... swordmanship= alls kinds of edged weapons, hand to hand = all kind or kobat without weapons.

That aside, why do you specify special combats arts/martials arts? They are all in the same category. Than you added, logia type abilitys. That's a completly different world, as logia types, have no solid body. Yeah most probably Aokiji and Co could not overcome Roger, as they probably never fought each other and were not as experiencend as they are now.

LOL
SO SPEARS ARE SWORDS NOW??

HOW ABOUT HALBERDS?

KNIVES?

some would even catagorize cutlasses, rapiers and claymores from swords..



That aside, why do you specify special combats arts/martials arts? They are all in the same category. Than you added, logia type abilitys. That's a completly different world, as logia types, have no solid body. Yeah most probably Aokiji and Co could not overcome Roger, as they probably never fought each other and were not as experiencend as they are now.

YOU DON'T GET MY POINT.

MY POINT IS THAT IF BOTH FIGHERS USED THE SET OF SKILLS OR SET OF WEAPONS THEY WERE THE BEST AT, THEN ONE WOULD COME OUT TOP.

IF MIHAWK USED HIS SWORD FIGHTING SKILLS, AND WB USED HIS PREFERRED FIGHTING STYLE, THEN WB WOULD TRIUMPH AND THATS THT.

ok?!


I thought he was the strongest man, not fighter. Clarify yourself. It's not the same.

..
Are yu trying to be funny?


Yeah most probably Aokiji and Co could not overcome Roger, as they probably never fought each other and were not as experiencend as they are now.

OMG...

Yu still don't get it?

How much more can Oda do to clarify the fact that WB is the world's strongest,..

I mean he even gave him the title
And then stated that he was the ONLY one, not one of the few, that could match teh PIRATE KING

Thats a feat unmatched by anyone. Theres a reason why Roger is the one every pirate aspire to.. its because he was the strongest, most powerful. And there was only one man who could fight him to a standstill.. hear that? ONE man. And when Roger died.. guess who became the most powerful. Oh My Gawd, what a surprise!! It was the guy who was the only one who manged to fight Roger to a draw. LOL

Guess what his name was?

O yea thats right.. Whitebeard.

Jesus Christ.
I feel like I'm talking to a 2 year old.

[Raysen_ht]

@paradoxe
Please turn down a nocht on the way you make your comments... they are starting to annoy me...

I happen to agree with you, that atm, there is none who could fight WB and win on a fair 1x1 fight
But Schabrak argument is that when he was introduced to us, what was said is that he was the strongest man in the world, and that, could be interpretated as the one with the more brute streanght!!
Schabrak never questioned that WB was the most powerfull in the way you (and i think that way too) have suggested, when he was at his prime!! fighting Roger!! But NOW.. he could simply be the one who has the most streanght in his punches (or whatever)

I really think that he got ur point paradox, but u refuse to aknowlege that his is a valid argument too!! And thats what is causing all the "eternal" discussion!!
Schabrak has his own point of view... u dont agree with him!! Thats OK, everybody understood both of ure views... u wont be able to convince one another that their oppinion is not valid, so please stop it... or at least make it more polite

[paradoxe]

I really think that he got ur point paradox

Thing is, I don't think he did man.

I got his point.. its just a rather invalid and illogical point..

So Oda just randomly gave some guy the title Strongest man cos hes got the biggest biceps?

Ok..wierd more?

lol
Its ok, sorry I'm just really frustrated
Obviously I get his 'arguement', if yu can call it that.. it doesnt make any sense at all.
But he doesn't get me. Thats why I'm frustrated.

[Raysen_ht]

@paradox


I thought he was the strongest man, not fighter. Clarify yourself. It's not the same. Read my posts again, as I would repeat myself for the hundreds time. Rayen told it best. We have difffrent points of view. Just wait for the fight.

Thats him saying that ure points are simply diferent, but still valid

I dont think his way of viewing things is "invalid and illogical" ... he may as well be right (though i dont think he is)... you never know with OP
[hr]
like here:
When mihawk was introduced...
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/12/

"the invincible swordsman"... If u take that literally, none can defeat him!! He is an *Invincible* swordsman... however, we all see it as only invincible at swordsmanship... but, in fact, thats not what the words said...

So, if we can interpretate that Mihawk is only invincible at a sword fight, why cant we interpretate that WB is the one with the most brute streangh of the world?

Again... let me just say that i think it was supposed to mean that WB can defeat any opponent on a 1x1 fight... but all opinions are valid!!

[3 Days Grace]

by strongest man i think he can pretty much beat any1 1-1 but when the numbers rise it wont matter if hes the strongest

[Black Hawk]

So for my own i really think it goes to win of Whitebeard Pirats when the rumble gets to hot possible a tie.
Didnt remember surely some say 9 of 16 Divison Commanders have the same lvl as Ace.
That doesnt mean that ace was the strongest fighter also possible 3 form the 0ther 7 are stronger. so WB is really long on sea so i think his Crew is really strong and a the half of the Commanders are Users or really really Strong. In the other Way the 7 Chichis oh sry Shichibukais. Mihawk is fast and strong. but moria and flamingo dont will fight by own. Kuma everyone knows he is heavy. And who is the last one.

But at Last i think the troops of WB and Newgate himself will mash up de place and get Ace back.
So i hope we see some Chapter of this Battle what anything a change.

[Schabrak]

Why wouldn't Flamingo and Morgia fight by themself? If you mean passive fighting style, that it should be incorrect, as Moria is still very strong by himself and could steal the shadows of the stronges ones to let them burn to death in the sunlight. And Flamingo would just control a strong WB pirate to fight other WB pirates. He will fight anyway, as he was the one to tell us the message about the meeting at the execution place.

paradoxe: I won't read your posts, as long as you can not answer more human. Shouting won't bring you anywhere. You would better remember, that I'm reading your posts, so CAPS don't have the same effect as a lound voice, THEY DO NOT INTIMIDATE ME AND WILL NEVER HELP TO CONVINCE ME OF WHAT YOU TRY TO TELL ME. :D

[Black Hawk]

Why wouldn't Flamingo and Morgia fight by themself? If you mean passive fighting style, that it should be incorrect, as Moria is still very strong by himself and could steal the shadows of the stronges ones to let them burn to death in the sunlight. And Flamingo would just control a strong WB pirate to fight other WB pirates. He will fight anyway, as he was the one to tell us the message about the meeting at the execution place.

Yeah that what i mean fighting passiv. But we didnt no, how Flamingo can use his ability is this something about spirit or like some puppets.
How is a rank of a Division Commander to a Schichibukai, for my own i think the first 5 Commanders are so strong that the ability of flamingo doesnt will work and WB dont rrun into a place without soem plan. Sure he knows everyone of them Royal and know about the DF. So he would give dem see right opponent.

[BlackHair]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/12/

"the invincible swordsman"... If u take that literally, none can defeat him!! He is an *Invincible* swordsman... however, we all see it as only invincible at swordsmanship... but, in fact, thats not what the words said...

So, if we can interpretate that Mihawk is only invincible at a sword fight, why cant we interpretate that WB is the one with the most brute streangh of the world?
About the scan u used: I think the scanl-/translator did just fast work and didn't cared for individual notions. Rufi?! Wtf is a Rufi (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/09/)? I would kill my parents if I had that name..(in Germany Luffy is called Ruffy..don't know how he is called in other Nations but i don't care). A page previously (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/11/) he is described as the "Greatest Swordsman in the world". The scan-/translator probably just wanted to avoid repetitions.

I know ur defending Schabrak, coz paradox posts in a disrespectful way, but I also know that's not ur true opinion as u explained ur view earlier :P

As posted before ppl have different opinions, view etc.. That makes us different, u cant simply convince some1 with arguments (in most cases) That's why there are wars and conflicts... humans are stupid!

ah'.. tiring.. things are already clear and we know who "won" the discussion. ^^ I prop won't post anymore on this matter to avoid moderator intervention. :D

********************************
Regarding Flamingos DF: there have to be a way to avoid his control ability. Its just too unfair lol if he could control anybody in his view. Maybe there are some requirements ?! but so far nothing not even signs were shown.

Imo Gekko is the weakest Shichi shown so far. His attitude is shit (he wants his subordinates to make him PK ?! meanwhile he can sleep ?!) and his DB ability is nothing to fear imo. Guys like Crocodile, BB or Hawk Eye have some better reputation. CP9 were by far more threatening then Gekko.

[Schabrak]

In the official german translation by Carlsen Comics, it only say "Mihawk... sword fight/combat master." No spark of invincible in there.

You really can't say that CP9 was more of a threat to them, as it was a group. If I think about Gekkos "crew", it was overall stronger, as he had many hundred invincle super zombies. Just like Luffy and Co, they would not be able to realy harm them. <- as long as they don't know the salt weakness.^^ And his generals where pretty strong too, but had great weak points in their characters. Moria working with his shadow is very harmfull too, as he just could box in Crocs sand into his boxes. <- just with sand, don't know how his shadow reacts to other elements. Naturally the DF ability is much weaker than BB ones, but his one is stronger than anyones anyway... It's the ultimate DF. His shadow can be used defensive as well as offensive. Give me a negative point about the DF?(Him getting fat through eating too much, is no valid one. XD Just look at Luffy. It was just a little fault in his plan.) He has no concrete one. He also can add and multiply abilitys and strength. Finally... Morias postion as Shichibukai is very well rightful.

And what kind of reputation? BB is a dirty traiter, he has no reputation at all. It's fear that many have of him, as he is so strong right now. Crocodile was playing dirty too. Fighting in a desert... how lame.^^ Having lost in his element being everywhere as advantage, he must seem like a weakling to the rest of the world.

[JC123]

BB without a reputation?

He defeated Firefist Ace...

He has a small crew that's getting bigger. He turned his back on Whitebeard and became a Shichibukai.

He's going to be Pirate King if it's the last thing he does.

And you're saying he doesn't have a reputation?

He doesn't live through fear, but he does fight for what he believes in.

[Schabrak]

He was working dirty, you can't deny that it's "bad" reputation to a great part. Should he be honored now, that he is working for the WG? It's not veneration that he got through his acts(maybe from the WG...), but more the fear from pirates. But it still could be seen as "great" reputation if you want.

[DutchPhoenix]

mihawk will kill the entire WB crew for fun just like he did to don krieg

[BlackHair]

Actually by "reputation" I was talking about how I'am seeing them (sry for not explaining thigs better). Of course as a Shichi u r feared and respected by many, but Geckos attitude was shit.

As Luffy was fighting Lucci near the end, the only reason kept him fighting was "his ambition to become PK" and the words of Ussope who triggered his Sprit (if u read hajime no ippo, u know what im talking about). Do u think Gekko would have done the same with his attitude? No way, he would have been thinking like this "I cant take it anymore, Dick9900 (new zombie) make me to PK". Without a certain Spirit u cant wn against opponents with about the same amount of strength. Maybe that's the one of reasons he lost against Kaidou.

Well, now putting CP9 against Moria. If we take all his Suprice Zombie and w.e zombie in count, we could also take the WG soldiers around Enis Lobby. I dont have exactly a proof but to me CP9 arc was more threatening/dangerous to SHs as Gecko Moria. Things was definitely also more serious. I just cant stand Moria.. :P


mihawk will kill the entire WB crew for fun just like he did to don krieg
Where on earth do u have the proof to say such thing? :P (Aizen, ch315). Did u read the posts before? Did u thought about the triangle balance system? Are u putting Crieg equally to WB? Did u consider Mihawks and WB given title by Oda? Are u a Mihawk fanboy? Do u wear Miawk panties? Probably "No" uh.. just kidding..xD

[Raysen_ht]

mihawk will kill the entire WB crew for fun just like he did to don krieg

WB would never, NEVER allow that to happen... Look what he did just because the WG is going to kill ONE of his "sons"

[Black Hawk]

As posted before ppl have different opinions, view etc.. That makes us different, u cant simply convince some1 with arguments (in most cases) That's why there are wars and conflicts... humans are stupid!

Yeah but without that there is no discussing. *haha* funny point
When u only agree to anything that other ones say u loose yourself, sure u can think and agree when u came to the same point after discuss or thinking.

Mihawk will kill everyone for fun. First of all Mihawk will never fight people they have no skill. Remember how he fights the first time with Zorro. That Guy nobody knows what he will do exactly, as next step. But anyway i agree with that, when mihawk kills one of WB sons he will fight directly with Mihawk. But the interisting of this giht, some one right it befor. Is the Balances about the two Groups. WB call himself the strongest man, with many skilled commanders. In the other Side the 7 Royal Schichibukais where anyone of dem is also really strong. The other point of BB is, like Ace said it befor the fight. In the back of WB, he grew up really strong. So is see it like he has very good stamina, to can take some hard hits.

[Raysen_ht]

Mihawk will kill everyone for fun. First of all Mihawk will never fight people they have no skill. Remember how he fights the first time with Zorro. That Guy nobody knows what he will do exactly, as next step. But anyway i agree with that, when mihawk kills one of WB sons he will fight directly with Mihawk

Ure saying that u agree that Mihawk will kill everyone for fun, after u said he wont fight with people that dont have skill?? I dont get it...


But the interisting of this giht, some one right it befor. Is the Balances about the two Groups. WB call himself the strongest man, with many skilled commanders. In the other Side the 7 Royal Schichibukais where anyone of dem is also really strong

"But the interisting of this giht, some one right it befor" What?!?!!? I dont understand at all what ure saying here... "someone right it before"!? What is that???


The other point of BB is, like Ace said it befor the fight. In the back of WB, he grew up really strong. So is see it like he has very good stamina, to can take some hard hits

What was the first point about BB? And what is the other point? is it that he grew strong under WB shadow? than why the dot "."

Man... Sorry if u find anything i said rude... its just that this isnt the first post from u that totally confused me... so i decided to let u know that i cant understand most of what ur saying at ur posts... I dont know if other people get it or not, but i dont

Please try to be more clear on future posts

[Finale]

I think that after WB is kill, defeated or whatever, that the surviving members of his crew will probably either form a new crew, join the other Yonkou or the Revolution. The WG has got to be careful putting so many of its military assets on the line in this fight. I think its a given the WG is going to suffer heavy losses. Dragon is likely watching the situation and probably has plans. The WG also has to be careful not to scare the Yonkous into a confederation of sorts. If the WG decides that after beating WB that they won't to take out the other major pirates then they might band together for protection until the odds even out again. I'm really looking forward to why WB has the title of strongest. He has to take out at least one powerful opponent.

[JC123]

He was working dirty, you can't deny that it's "bad" reputation to a great part. Should he be honored now, that he is working for the WG? It's not veneration that he got through his acts(maybe from the WG...), but more the fear from pirates. But it still could be seen as "great" reputation if you want.

A "bad" reputation is still a rep. The Shichi is to be feared more than respected. The Marines are to be respected for they are the Law.

Pirates are not to be feared, they are to be captured for going against The Law.

It's The MAN holding us back, yo! :p


I think that after WB is kill, defeated or whatever, that the surviving members of his crew will probably either form a new crew, join the other Yonkou or the Revolution. The WG has got to be careful putting so many of its military assets on the line in this fight. I think its a given the WG is going to suffer heavy losses. Dragon is likely watching the situation and probably has plans. The WG also has to be careful not to scare the Yonkous into a confederation of sorts. If the WG decides that after beating WB that they won't to take out the other major pirates then they might band together for protection until the odds even out again. I'm really looking forward to why WB has the title of strongest. He has to take out at least one powerful opponent.

I doubt the Yonkous are going into a confederation. Look what happened with Shanks and WB.

Yes, Dragon is watching, and I believe this may be his golden opportunity. Either that or he may see that he can take more islands away from the WG after this incident.

No matter how you look at this, both the Marines and WB are going to suffer HEAVY losses.

No matter how this goes, there will be changes ALL over the OP world.

[Black Hawk]

Ure saying that u agree that Mihawk will kill everyone for fun, after u said he wont fight with people that dont have skill?? I dont get it...

I was speak to the the argument. First befor u make your own statement. introduce the words with u work. Some one write Mihwak will be kill for Fun.
I post this statement without any QUOTE. At least i bring my own sight.
Mihawk will never fight people how losse arms, or dont mean it serious.
That means Mihawk will be fight only the Div. Commanders

"But the interisting of this giht, some one right it befor" What?!?!!? I dont understand at all what ure saying here... "someone right it before"!? What is that???

I dont really remember sometimes i write word without any Brain. clear right and bring the word write. okay then its easy to read.
About: But in interisting of this is giht, sorry i cant tell u i cant remember. what that means. So i read it again, But the interting point of this fight is, some one write it befor. The Balance between WB and the Royal Schchibukai and Marine. I think its listen better so i hope it for u. *haha*

What was the first point about BB? And what is the other point? is it that he grew strong under WB shadow? than why the dot "."

Man... Sorry if u find anything i said rude... its just that this isnt the first post from u that totally confused me... so i decided to let u know that i cant understand most of what ur saying at ur posts... I dont know if other people get it or not, but i dont

Please try to be more clear on future posts

So i see i see, its okay. I will work hard on me everyday. To make a post that u can read. And when i go better and u have fun with my post. let me also know. Yeah so for a better future discussen. I will give my best.

[OP ROX]

I say there will be Huge Loss for WB and Marines,, but Dragon will find the right time to strike and hopefully cause more damage to the WG

[Deathgod75]

A "bad" reputation is still a rep. The Shichi is to be feared more than respected. The Marines are to be respected for they are the Law.

Pirates are not to be feared, they are to be captured for going against The Law.

It's The MAN holding us back, yo! :p



I doubt the Yonkous are going into a confederation. Look what happened with Shanks and WB.

Yes, Dragon is watching, and I believe this may be his golden opportunity. Either that or he may see that he can take more islands away from the WG after this incident.

No matter how you look at this, both the Marines and WB are going to suffer HEAVY losses.

No matter how this goes, there will be changes ALL over the OP world.

well maybe the Strawhats will join with WB to help save Ace but idk if Oda will do that since they just finished with a big rescue and id b too early 4 a next.

[paradoxe]

A rescue arc would be unoriginal.

But I dont think they'd go to Fishman Island so early, they'd probably return to the surface for a while and encounter the war between WB and the WG. Its too epic a fight for Oda to miss.

[BlackHair]

I don't think the SHs will have anything to do with the War. They wont participate nor they will see anything. They will just continue their voyage. I base this on Luffys comment (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/490/05/).

[Deathgod75]

I don't think the SHs will have anything to do with the War. They wont participate nor they will see anything. They will just continue their voyage. I base this on Luffys comment (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/490/05/).

well yea but when they find out that its so close to where they r and that he's gonna b excecuted in public i doubt he'll just keep going on his journey. and im also wondering whats garp thinking bout this??

[OP ROX]

Saving Ace during public execution would be epiccc

[Deathgod75]

Saving Ace during public execution would be epiccc
but oda would have to somehow change it up so that i wont b like the enies lobby arc. i thinking that as the WB vs WG and sichibukai war is raging on WB starts losing but and their about to kill ace when all of the sudden 2 allies show up in the form of Shanks from one side and SH from the other. this is so that Shanks and Luffy can finally meet up again and also so that both Yonkous will acknowledge the SH strength as they head into the New World which could lead to Luffy becoming a Yonkou himself

[Finale]

One thing that the recent chapters has shown us is that although rookies, the SNs are pretty powerful pirates. WB arguably has the strongest crew in the world. Rockstar had a pretty high bounty, almost enough to be a SN, yet the WB pirates hadn't even heard of him. The Shichibukai are very likely going to need an admiral or two to jump into this fight because I'm sure that WB has many other strong fighters than just Marco and Josi left.

[JC123]

but oda would have to somehow change it up so that i wont b like the enies lobby arc. i thinking that as the WB vs WG and sichibukai war is raging on WB starts losing but and their about to kill ace when all of the sudden 2 allies show up in the form of Shanks from one side and SH from the other. this is so that Shanks and Luffy can finally meet up again and also so that both Yonkous will acknowledge the SH strength as they head into the New World which could lead to Luffy becoming a Yonkou himself

...

Seriously not only would WB get angry at the snot nosed Shanks for getting into his fight, but Ace would absolutely KILL Luffy if the SHs came to fight for him. :p

[Deathgod75]

...

Seriously not only would WB get angry at the snot nosed Shanks for getting into his fight, but Ace would absolutely KILL Luffy if the SHs came to fight for him. :p
well it all depends on the manner in which he saves him. if he saves him like they did robin then yea hes gonna b pissed but if all they do is show up and kick marines asses then leave then it b ok i guess cause afterwards maybe they make some excuse of wanting to show the two yonkous what they were capable of and their capable of becoming yonkous themselves.

[Onomatopoeia]

well it all depends on the manner in which he saves him. if he saves him like they did robin then yea hes gonna b pissed but if all they do is show up and kick marines asses then leave then it b ok i guess cause afterwards maybe they make some excuse of wanting to show the two yonkous what they were capable of and their capable of becoming yonkous themselves.


WB would call him an arrogant punk and preceed to kick Luffy all over the ship. You really think the SH's are anything but insects to the Yonkous. Theirs a reason Rayleigh is 100 times stronger then all the Supernova's

[Destin82]

Where the fight takes place might have a big impact on the results, if Whitebeard can reach Ace and free him in time, it would be a big feather in their cap. As far as pairings, I can only guess at this point since there's not much to work off of, but.

Whitebeard vs Blackbeard
Marco vs Doflamingo
Jozu vs Kuma

there's possibilities for the other shichibukai as well.

Jimbei vs Luffy. This clash might occur when Luffy reaches mermaid isle. Luffy might beat Jimbei before he could even get involved, this shortening the shichibukai roster by 1.

Mihawk might choose not to get involved at all, or Shanks might interfere leading to a confrontation between two supposed big rivals.

Moria seems somewhat irrelevant at this point, I assume he'd be fodder for a currently unknown Whitebeard officer.

unknown Shichibukai, no clue what might happen with him, but at the least we'll finally get to see his appearance.

Going based on which group seems more powerful, the Whitebeard pirates do easily. Two of the shichibukai have already fallen to Luffy, imagine what veteran pirates of that caliber are capable of. The only problem with that is, Whitebeard coming out victorious wouldn't make much sense to the One Piece cannon. So I see the shichibukai winning on the strength of Blackbeard. It wouldn't even surprise me if every other Whitebeard officer wins their respective battles only to see Whitebeard die (or just lose since it's One Piece) at the hands of Blackbeard.

[kkck]

Apparently the world goverment is gathering up quite a big army to fight of whitebeard. What we need to know is whether they need all their main assets just to fight on equal ground with WBP or to be sure of their victory.
As for WB vs Shichibukai only, I am kind of starting to lean in favor for whitebeard. If half of his commanders can use haki or fight at least at luffy´s level, then shichibukai chancs are getting slim.

[paradoxe]

Well, the fact is it is very likely that Moria and Croc are the two weakest Shichibukai. Doflamingo, Kuma and Mihawk all seem very powerful, and Jimbei shouldn't be a pushover either.

[Lohnt]

Wow this poll is closer than I thought..

I suppose Whitebeard could die without the Whitebeard pirates disbanding.. Although I would be kind of pissed if Ace takes over instead of Marco.

[Cobra Grasso]

Oda's crazy. I voted a tie but with OP one has more of chance moving the unmovable object then predicting its next chapter. This said, out of all possible crazy outcomes, there is one point I would put money on: Ace surviving this war.

Let me get some of this stuff off my chest. The anticipation is killing me.

I'm not saying WB makes it out alive, but definitely Ace could. Many will disagree on this, but now that the balance is out the window, Ace's death isn't really necessary. Maybe if this were Hokuto no Ken or Berserk and Oda had been killing a character a chapter his death could be on the cards, but after Pell I strongly doubt it.

With this in mind, I'm convinced Ace is going to be handing at least someone Marine or Shibukai their toasted asses on a plate. This doesn't have to be to the very end, after a mind-blowing dozen chapters and with Blackbeard standing over the old man's dead body; but knowing how epic stuff seems to get in OP, I find it hard to believe Oda would leave on the sidelines a guy who has fire as his power.

Back to the reality. Who knows how strong the White Beard pirates are? Even without counting the old man, Marco, Joz and Ace, the crew will undoubtedly hit hard.

Same can be said of the Shibukai and the Admirals. I would consider these two on par; so for them both to be called up, either WB has a crew stronger than any of those groups alone (dunno really considering there's 3 more Emperors) or the World Government is fully going to erase his crew from the OP world.

Just to make things worse, as it's been said, there's Dragon and his gang, Shanks doesn't like BB, Kuma is Oda's predictability drawn as a character, Rufy is nearby (though I doubt he'l be involved) and I'm banking on an appearance from Garp. Hell, blood is thicker than anything. If the blade is about to drop on his stupid grandson's neck, I don't see a uniform holding in check the Fist of Love. The way I see it if Rufy or Dragon don't do something, Garp will.

Yea, this has gotten pretty long so I'll stop. Thoughts?

PS - Croc was the unluckiest bastard in this whole series. He was baddass! Leaving Jimbei out of the equation, the man has nothing less than Kuma or Mihawk when it comes to dishing out instant death.

[Lohnt]

Croc is NOT as effective when surrounded by water. His opponents can be 'killed' by drying up and just jump into the water, instant fail.

I'm sorry, but Croc's ability is NOT meant for the Red Line.

[kkck]

I'm sorry, but Croc's ability is NOT meant for the Red Line.

I think you mean grand line. If anything crocodile is invincible anywhere where he can create sand.

[Schabrak]

Same can be said of the Shibukai and the Admirals. I would consider these two on par; so for them both to be called up, either WB has a crew stronger than any of those groups alone (dunno really considering there's 3 more Emperors) or the World Government is fully going to erase his crew from the OP world.

I think they just want to have as less casualities as possible. You would not risk your men, if you had the power to prevent as much damage as possible right? Losing hald of the marines/shichibukai because of such mistake would be fatal wo the WG.


Croc is NOT as effective when surrounded by water. His opponents can be 'killed' by drying up and just jump into the water, instant fail.
They will just jump down from a mile high place?[Considering it is one the Redline too, what I doubt.] XD If Croc didn't dry them up enough, the pressure of the water would. It's like falling on steel. Luffy said, he would have died if it wasn't for Kumas "pawn" (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/514/10/). The distance was absolutly not the same, but that does not matter that much. Ability users jumping into water -> instant fail.
If Crocs enemies inhale some sand/dust/earth, they would be in his hands, if he had "good enough control" of his element. He "would" be able to rip them apart from within. Muscles and a tough skin won't help much to protect the lungs/organs.
His powers should be nearly on par with the Ace and Ao Kiji, as they are master over the elements earth/stone/sand, fire and water/ice.

[Lohnt]

You're suggesting that the battle will ensue on Mariejoia despite Sengoku clearly chastising Kizaru for not heading towards the Whitebeard Pirates and going off to the Archipelago. Why would Kizaru be the only one left on Mariejoia if the battle will take place there?

No, the battle will take place in the sea, and on Enies Lobby, in order for Whitebeard to reach Impel Down. Thus the battle will take place on a suspended island over water, ships surrounded by water, and a prison deep underwater.

Your argument is moot, Crocodile will be surrounded by water, and any enemy he dries up can jump into water and proceed to counterattack, even ability users, because not every member of Whitebeards crew will be an ability user (since the old generation looks down on DF's and becoming hammers), thus 2 pirates, one with a DF that can decapitate and one that can swim > Crocodile.

Crocodile was meant for the desert, this is why he failed when he tried to become pirate king, this is why he needed a superweapon ship, to counteract his own weakness in seabattles, and you know what they say about guys with big cars.

Quite frankly, if only once Blackbeard was caught within a storm while fighting another pirate crew, he would lose, much less die.

Blackbeard is the smarter choice.

[Schabrak]

You're suggesting that the battle will ensue on Mariejoia despite Sengoku clearly chastising Kizaru for not heading towards the Whitebeard Pirates and going off to the Archipelago. Why would Kizaru be the only one left on Mariejoia if the battle will take place there?

Considering it is one the Redline too, what I doubt.
No I did not. It will take plaze in the Marine HQ Marineford (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/516/12/
), which is/should definitly not be near/at the Archipelago.


No, the battle will take place in the sea, and on Enies Lobby, in order for Whitebeard to reach Impel Down. Thus the battle will take place on a suspended island over water, ships surrounded by water, and a prison deep underwater.
We don't know if it will take place in the seas or on Marineford. I think both at the end, as they should at least "reach" Ace.


Your argument is moot, Crocodile will be surrounded by water, and any enemy he dries up can jump into water and proceed to counterattack, even ability users, because not every member of Whitebeards crew will be an ability user (since the old generation looks down on DF's and becoming hammers), thus 2 pirates, one with a DF that can decapitate and one that can swim > Crocodile.
Why are you even considering him fighting, figuring out how big his chance to win would be? He is a prisoner, in Enies Lobby, not at the execution place, Marineford. And still, he may could filter out the sand from the sea. :D

[bittman]

Why are you even considering him fighting, figuring out how big his chance to win would be? He is a prisoner, in Enies Lobby, not at the execution place, Marineford. And still, he may could filter out the sand from the sea. :D

Yeah, why do they keep bringing Crocodile up when he's a prisoner? Maybe well down the track if the WG is pressured they might do a shady deal <- I can see that happening for dramatic effect. However, I can't see it happening now or in the near future and it would need something massive to happen to even be plausible. (like worldwide revolt)

[kkck]

Little by little I am more inclined to believe that WB pirates are stronger than the shichibukai, otherwise the WG wouldnt gather ALL of its main assets to fight.

[BlackHair]

I believe that's just to insure their victory. They must have fought (MHQvsWB) in the past without victory for neither of them. So this time, since they know WB is coming they are bringing everything out to beat him highly at one place (ambush). If more and strong troops are in place, their victory is certain and they will also insure low loss. With that they could start to take out their enemy one by one which could be eventually the begin of a new era... just my thoughts.

[Rotten The Wizard]

C'mon without any outside help WB loses in sheer power only. Ace knows it and that's why he's crying

You have 3 admirals, two with Godly logia powers and 5+ vice admirals PLUS the shichibukai

I for 1 think Aokiji is gonna mow the land with WB

[BlackHair]

Well I agree that this will be a one sided rape, but there are other pirates as well (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/523/12/) (Panel 2). Also I think Garp/Kuma are planing sth. Not sure though. We have Shanks who could join also not sure what Dragon will do. Not to forget the SHs, through that even Rayleigh.

Just saying this battle can't be a one sided match, since it's a manga. So there must be other parties who will join. But as things are now, WB can't win.

[Rotten The Wizard]

Well I agree that this will be a one sided rape, but there are other pirates as well (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/523/12/) (Panel 2). Also I think Garp/Kuma are planing sth. Not sure though. We have Shanks who could join also not sure what Dragon will do. Not to forget the SHs, through that even Rayleigh.

Just saying this battle can't be a one sided match, since it's a manga. So there must be other parties who will join. But as things are now, WB can't win.
I agree %100

that's why I specified 'without outside help'
But afterall this war would be boring without special Cameos.

Dragon? Shanks?law? trafalgar? the nameless yonkou?

This is going to be epic. I cant imagine how many chapters this will take. Take the Skypedia and Enies lobby arcs for example.

It could be next september before we see the end of this fight :P

[kkck]

I was talking about WB vs the shichibukai not WB vs WG and shichubukai

[Kaiser Will]

Well I agree that this will be a one sided rape, but there are other pirates as well (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/523/12/) (Panel 2). Also I think Garp/Kuma are planing sth. Not sure though. We have Shanks who could join also not sure what Dragon will do. Not to forget the SHs, through that even Rayleigh.

Just saying this battle can't be a one sided match, since it's a manga. So there must be other parties who will join. But as things are now, WB can't win.

Excellent explanation, I agree with you in 99%!
Just one thing that I don't understand, if you can explain to me, I will be very gratefull!

Why WB can't win?
That's I don't understand in your post!

[Sorata]

Why WB can't win?
That's I don't understand in your post!

I too want to know why people assume that WB as no chance, after last chapter and seeing Garp calling him #the ruler of the seas" i think he has all the chances to win or make it an even fight.

[bittman]

I love the poll right now. It's almost tied, and there are even a lot of tie votes.

Anyway, WB can't win for a thousand reasons. Ruler of the Sea or not, he isn't a super saiyan with island destroyed kahmehameha's or skin which is as tough as steel because of his power level. This is One Piece, strength < numbers. Even Luffy would have eventually lost to Enies Lobby marines, it only takes one fluke stab.

[Dr. Vegapunk]

I definitley think the outcome will be a tie. There is a reason why the WG and Marines have no power in the new world, the sheer power of only 4 men alone controls the other half of the grand line. Whitebeard a man who once tied with Gol D Roger in a fight, a man who knows Haki while I doubt the two Shichibukai included dont use Haki (Kuma & Moria) We have yet to see the extent of power between Donfalmingo and Mihawk, Blackbeard may have some knowledge of Haki after all he gave Shanks the Scar but then again if he knew about Haki then why would he need a DF?? And we all know Hancock knows Haki.

I'am not saying that Haki is this ultimate power, but as we have seen with Rayleigh and Kizaru, haki is a great asset to have.

If WB was to win it would not be of his own power but the power of other pirates. Luffy will no doubt have to fight if he is to free Ace, also there are pirates that were captured by Kizaru at the SA, so if they want there freedom they too will have to fight who knows there might SN's amongst those prisoners.

You can also never rule out the WG and Marines, not only do they have Shichibukai but also Admirals, Pacifista, Vice-Admirals, a large army backing them, and imo a secret weapon they might've just discovered resulting in there declaration of war against WB, perhaps they seek to slowly bleed the power of the 4 Yonkous, and by taking out the strongest amongst them, and if the Yonkous were to ever alliance it would not have the power of WB behind them.

Shanks will definitely appear imo, he wont get involved, he would only be there to see the outcome, if WB is lost there will now only be three yonkou, in which the powers between the two great oceans will now have become slowly imbalanced. If WB is to win it will show that he does have the power to overthrow the WG and the Marines. Dragon wont show even though I want him to, who knows Dragon may be WB trump card in this fight but I doubt he would cooperate with WB.

[bittman]

Blackbeard may have some knowledge of Haki after all he gave Shanks the Scar but then again if he knew about Haki then why would he need a DF??

Haki doesn't make a DF powerless, it seems to have conditions. Rayleigh didn't cancel Kizaru's light blade or the light travel, all he did was meet the blade of light with his own and check Kizaru's movement with a blade that could scratch a logia. Point of the matter is, there is no cancellation, complete cancellation is probably only in the realm of Blackbeard. Oh, and Blackbeard also does that gravity thing, if cancellation was the only power he had he would just be 'strong'. As it is, he's 'insanely strong' / final boss.

Also, you are underestimating the Shichibukai. Haki wasn't useful until now, why is it now the only thing that defines you as useful now? Luffy beat Haki users with his Gears, I imagine Moria can beat Haki users with his power just as easily.

And Kuma's power is hax. Does he even need Haki?

Anyway, still doubt the appearance of Dragon and Shanks. Why wouldn't Dragon seize the opportunity and rebel in all the countries the marines have not reinforced?

[BlackHair]

Things we know for sure: WB Pirates (1600 men) vs Shichi (without crew, as far as I can tell) + Marines! WB may be the strongest, but he is completely outmatched in men power. I know on both sides are cannon fodder, I even admit that on the marines side have to be more cannon fodder. But don't underestimate a whole army of them (Enis Lobby). Not to mention: Yonko (all) = MHQ = Shichi (all 7). WB as the only Yonko is just a quarter of the power. He can't win as things are now.

But we all know things have to be exciting and Ace has to be rescued. That's why the battle will be close and not one-sided. Therefore there must be other parties joining as well, as I mentioned before.

cannon fodder = 1hit weaklings

[camil222]

i doubt the fight will be long. i really really really doubt that. now that luffy is coming, if he can pull ace out as fast as he can, i think the war will stop. but if ace gets to wb before he gets to marijoie, i think wb will still want to go on the island to go kill bb but maybe ace will make him change his mind. personnaly, i think the war will take the same time as the same time the crews gonna get back to shabondy (sry im french cant really explain that well). o and by the way, why the hell would someone want to go help wb???? shanks? hell no! why the hell would he go help him out? if other crews are there i dont think theyre there to help wb, but for their own reasons like luffy for example. but i think the wb pirates are stronger than the shichibukai, but not stronger than the schichibukai and the marine combined.

[Kaiser Will]

Your arguements are pretty good, though I don't agree with you in here: " WB as the only Yonko is just a quarter of the power. He can't win as things are now".

First: if the Yonko were a organization you could say that, but they aren't they a individuals that work for their own purposes.
Second:(to prove my point) remenber that WG was really worry because the meeting of Shanks/WB, if they to make a pact that would disbalance the world.


What I'm trying to say is that we can't look WB as a one quarter of the power of the Yonko, but as whole!

[BlackHair]

My thought's: Yonko, there are four of them. Those four must be sharing "roughly" the same amount of fighting power. Within those 4, WB-Pirates are the strongest. It could be sth like this : 35% WB + 25% Shanks + 19% Kaido + 21% Unknown = 100% Im using these numbers in % just to make my explanation easier to understand. Im very well aware that it can't be put in %, since there are some things such as luck, mood etc which can't be calculated.

Why Im saying roughly? Simple, coz if WB would be 90% then there is no room for the other 3 (Shanks, Kaido and X). I mean mere 10% divided through 3 is nothing (=3.33%). They would have been taken out by the marine or WB without major problems. Basically in this case, the Yonko wouldn't exist. Therefore, they must have roughly the same amount of fighting power. Yonko means 4 emperor. They are four pirates, rivals. They must share about the same amount of fighting power, otherwise there wouldn't be four of them. Since they would have destroyed each other, till one is remained.

It was said Gecko fought evenly (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/483/06/) Kaido, both with their crew (probably). Gecko also said with Oz (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/456/10/) he would have won over Kaido. So Im concluding the gap between Kaido and Gecko can't be big. Note: Its not 1vs1, Im talking about a whole crew fighting. So depending on who, 2-3 Shichi could take out a Yonko. For example Gecko+Mwk+Moria vs Kaido.

Therefore if we take everything in consideration, the equation should be like this: Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (HQ Marines) = Shichi (all 7 +crew).

The big question: Why did the MHQ pissed their pants while they feared a alliance between Red-Hair and WB? Currently the pirates are dominating the op world, its the pirate age after all. The marine have to spread their forces overall in the world. But they are obviously overextended (That's why they appointed to 7 Shichi, to help them to counterbalance the Yonko and to intimidate other pirates). They have every outlaw as their enemy not only the Yonko. That's why they can't send all their forces after a single enemy. Since meanwhile somewhere else would be a vacancy, where other enemy's could strike. So if WB and Shanks should join forces (35+25=60%), then the MHQ have to send more of their best troops just to fight them. While somebody like Dragon could use this opportunity to strike.

But what is the difference now? Why are they now fighting WB by gathering all of their best troops? Why didn't they done that before? It's strategy. The WG is using Ace as a bait to get WB. They know exactly where WB will strike. Since WB wants to save Ace, he will strike where he is kept. So the MHQ will gather their best assets at one place to destroy the WB-Pirates. By gathering every best men, they will certain their victory also they would ensure low loss. Seriously they are planing a one sided rape.

The 7 Gods are like the Yonko not a unit. They wont work together well, so by appointing them, the WG is risking nothing. They can be easily disbanded. Since each Shichi alone (1/7) is no real threat for the MHQ (WG).

Anyway: If the Yonko should join forces they would have defeated the MHQ (WG). If only the Yonko would have existed without other outlaws, the MHQ wouldn't had trouble beating them. Also in this case the 7 Gods wouldn't have existed.

Im not rly good at explaining, especially not in English. I hope it is understandable.


What I'm trying to say is that we can't look WB as a one quarter of the power of the Yonko, but as whole!Though said quarter I didn't mean 25%. Just that WB is one emperor out of four.

But I don't understand what u mean "as a whole"?


wb pirates are stronger than the shichibukai, but not stronger than the schichibukai and the marine combined.Can't be, I explained above: 2+3 paragraph.

[Tenryuken]

I voted Shishibukai.
Not to mention that the 3 admirals + a lot of VA and strong Captains are going to join them.
WB has come to an end(pretty soon).

[Kaiser Will]

@blackhair

Neither do I understand that!
Let me try to explain a little better.

I understand now the one quarter, one Yonko, and not the power divided. Get it.
But based on the one quarter of the power, what I tryed to say is we can't look as a piece but the whole part of the power!

Sorry I can't explain it better!

[Antares]

But the translations were

"The Shichibukai and Marine exist to counterbalance these four"

it would mess up the previous equation, because it would means Shichi + Marine = 4 Yonkou :s

[kkck]

But the translations were

"The Shichibukai and Marine exist to counterbalance these four"

it would mess up the previous equation, because it would means Shichi + Marine = 4 Yonkou :s

That much was said, but I dont think it should be taken so literaly. Shichibukai dont cooperate with each other or even with the marines if they dont feel like it.
The 4 emperors also dont cooperate with each other, hell if you take a look at what shanks said when he entered whitebeards ship you will notice he called it "an enemy ship". I wouldnt take that equation as a 100% fact, but rather as a very simplistic, vague, general and incomplete piece of information which to some very limited extent attemps to explain how the world works.

[Tenryuken]

I always tought that there were 3 equal forces in one piece.
The Marines
The Shishibukais
The Yonkous

[BlackHair]

The MHQ and the Shichi exist in order to counterbalance these four (Yonko) (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/07/). The word "and" is used not "together" or "teamed up". I will give a simple example: Luffy fought on EL Blueno and Lucci. Did he fought both at the same time? No he didn't.

So there are 2 ways too understand Garp's explanation:

Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (Marines of the HQ) = Shichi (all 7+crew)
Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (Marines of the HQ) + Shichi (all 7+crew)

I will explain why I believe its like this -> [ = = ]

Stephen's translation (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter234.txt)

Mihawk: "Marine Headquarters" and "Seven Armed Seas"... two conflicting groups of equal power holding a "round table" is a meaningless thing.

Screenshots of Kaizoku-Fansubs: pic1 (http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7694/vlcsnap781283rr9.png) pic2 (http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/543/vlcsnap780600nz1.png)

In both versions the words "two power" and "conflict" are used. It was also said that the MHQ and the Shichi are in "conflict" and "of equal power". Two in equal power, who are in conflict can't be put together as a team. The Shichi are working for the World Goverment, not for the Marine (Sengoku). Kuma (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/11/) said it well. Therefore it cant be like this: = +.

[Tenryuken]

So your saying that there are 2 equal MAJOR forces in One Piece.
Marines+Shishibukais equal of the Yonkous.
but at the same time the Marines equals the Shishibukais.

[BlackHair]

No :) I said: [ = = ] -> Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (Marines of the HQ) = Shichi (all 7+crew).

Seriously I don't understand how some1 can put the Yonko equal to the marine hq + Shichi. In sheer men power the Yonko wouldn't stand. They can be happy that Roger started the pirate age, otherwise the marines wouldn't be so overextended, that they are actually in need of the 7Shichi.


Regarding the topic, the Shichi would overrun WB with all their troops. Without troops idk..maybe tie or still lose for WB.

[Tenryuken]

No :) I said: [ = = ] -> Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (Marines of the HQ) = Shichi (all 7+crew).

Seriously I don't understand how some1 can put the Yonko equal to the marine hq + Shichi. In sheer men power the Yonko wouldn't stand. They can be happy that Roger started the pirate age, otherwise the marines wouldn't be so overextended, that they are actually in need of the 7Shichi.


Regarding the topic, the Shichi would overrun WB with all their troops. Without troops idk..maybe tie or still lose for WB.

Well that's also what I am thinking but they're lots of people saying that the Yonkus equals Shishibukais+Marines and I tought you were one of them.


I always tought that there were 3 equal forces in one piece.
The Marines
The Shishibukais
The Yonkous

[Rotten The Wizard]

I dont get why its so difficult to understand why WB will get owned

If 1 Yonkou= MHQ+7Shichi marine HQ would've been wiped out a long time ago and the yonkou would've battled it out to move further in the grand line

That is why the MHQ+7shichi exist. So that there is balance in power

[RichardMNixon]

If 1 Yonkou= MHQ+7Shichi marine HQ would've been wiped out a long time ago

The problem in your logic is that you're assuming everyone will work together as a team. MHQ is the only organized group. The yonkou are rivals of each other as much as they are enemies of the WG, they aren't about to form a Pirate Coalition. The shichibukai are also hardly able to be counted on. I would not be surprised if Hancock and at least one other turn on the WG if the war with WB really happens.

Also note that BB took out WB's second division guy and Hogback made it sound like that might make him the strongest of the 7 (they found their ace in a hole). I think Marco could take Moria the way Luffy fought Bellamy.

[Tenryuken]

The WB pirates are leading the poll thus meaning that lots of people seriously think that WB will beat ALL the Shishibukais+the THREE admirals+John Giant+Smoker and lots of strong Marines.


If 1 Yonkou= MHQ+7Shichi marine HQ would've been wiped out a long time ago

The problem in your logic is that you're assuming everyone will work together as a team. MHQ is the only organized group. The yonkou are rivals of each other as much as they are enemies of the WG, they aren't about to form a Pirate Coalition. The shichibukai are also hardly able to be counted on. I would not be surprised if Hancock and at least one other turn on the WG if the war with WB really happens.

There is already one who's turned against the WG. JINBEI.


Also note that BB took out WB's second division guy

And Tatchi also, so Teach took TWO of WB's cammanders down by himself.


and Hogback made it sound like that might make him the strongest of the 7.

I agree with Hogback.


I think Marco could take Moria the way Luffy fought Bellamy.

What makes you think that?

[RichardMNixon]

Yeah, I'm also thinking Kuma, Mihawk, or BB might turn on them although for different reasons. No one knows what Kuma is up to, I think Mihawk feels closer to WB than WG, and BB will be right there at the weakest moment of all the great powers, that's a hell of a time to make a move.

Forgot about Thatch. That was a separate fight though so it's not like he took them both on and Ace was certainly the stronger of the two or WB wouldn't have sent him.

If Hogback is startled by a Shichi that can handle Ace, and I think general consensus is that Marco is stronger still, Marco should be a couple notches above the average Shichi. Moria not only appears to be on the low end, but is still recovering from his wounds from Luffy and probably doesn't have a ton of shadows on hand.

[Tenryuken]

do you think that Marco is stronger than Ace?
If WB was also thinking that, don't you think he would've send Marco after Ace?

[BlackHair]

That is why the MHQ+7shichi exist. So that there is balance in power
Mwk clearly said "two in conflict" powers. Just 'coz Shichi and MHQ are fighting the Yonklo, doesn't mean together at the same time. I don't see the one ordering the other around.

Stephen's translation (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter234.txt)
Mihawk: "Marine Headquarters" and "Seven Armed Seas"... two conflicting groups of equal power holding a "round table" is a meaningless thing.

___________________________

About Marco, Juaz and Ace. Since WB is going to fight a damn big battle, I don't think Oda would have let his strongest subordinate to be taken captive. BB was in the 2nd division, Ace is the commander of the 2nd Division. It is his responsibility to take care of that. That's Ace own words, if I remember correctly.

[Gecko Moria]

Lockdown...but tons of people are gonna get beaten up and then luffy is gonna sneak in and run away with ace

[Antares]

No I said: [ = = ] -> Yonko (all 4+crew) = MHQ (Marines of the HQ) = Shichi (all 7+crew).

Seriously I don't understand how some1 can put the Yonko equal to the marine hq + Shichi.

I'm just referring to this, because it said "The Marine Headquarters AND the Shichibukai exist to counterbalance these four (Four strongest Pirated in the World, Yonkou)

http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000432/07.jpg

[BlackHair]

I'm just referring to this, because it said "The Marine Headquarters AND the Shichibukai exist to counterbalance these four (Four strongest Pirated in the World, Yonkou)

http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000432/07.jpg

U must have missed my answer on that:

The MHQ and the Shichi exist in order to counterbalance these four (Yonko) (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/07/). The word "and" is used not "together" or "teamed up". I will give a simple example: Luffy fought on EL Blueno and Lucci. Did he fought both at the same time? No he didn't.

[Gecko Moria]

The balance is all messed up. As blackhair rightly says, it is true that the marines and the shichibukai = the yonkou. The WG needs the shichibukai to keep the yonkou in check but how many of the shichibukai actually take orders properly from the WG?

[bittman]

Note: Just a different translation on the three powers "power" aside from the usual guess of how many ships they can lift with a small finger.

"Their power is so influential that should these three powers blah blah blah"

So basically, it's not just their power (which is of course grand, else they would be captured or dead by now) but their influence that makes them dangerous. If Whitebeard was just Whitebeard, he'd be a nobody. Each power describes a way of life that anyone venturing on the sea would follow: Order, Corruption and Dreaming.

So while Whitebeard is around, he is an influence on both his own crew and those he has helped on the way, but those who look up to the summit and dream.

In this same way, let's look at Luffy's "power that is so influential":
* Power: defeated 2 shichibukai + Lucchi and received 300mil bounty
* Influence: respected by Alabastan royalty, Drum leadership, Skypeia, Water 7 leaders and a large amount of small time groups that he has helped on the way (Moria victims, Nami's island inhabitants, Zeff's chefs and even some marines).

If Luffy was captured, there would be a small uproar from a few people. Imagine Whitebeard, who is probably the most travelled pirate around, and his record after decades of pirating. It's kind of scary really.

[Antares]

The MHQ and the Shichi exist in order to counterbalance these four (Yonko). The word "and" is used not "together" or "teamed up". I will give a simple example: Luffy fought on EL Blueno and Lucci. Did he fought both at the same time? No he didn't.

Yep, but it was never said that Luffy will surely lose if Lucci and Blueno fight against him together. The thing is, if the meaning is reversed, it won't match. I mean, if the Marine OR Shichi alone is sufficient to counterbalance Yonkou, there wouldn't be any need to form the other force to maintain World stability. Imo, those previous chapters telling about Yonkou and the efforts gather a whole Shichi to beat just one Yonkou, means, at least, the two power must join forces if they wanna beat whole Yonkou.

[Tenryuken]

It's not that they need to gather everybody + the Shishibukai in order to win, it's that in a war you have to put all you got in order to defeat the enemy.
The fight between Luffy and Lucci prooved that if Blueno had given any help to Lucci during the fight, Luffy would be death.

[Kaiser Will]

One thing that I want to know is if Sengoku will fight in this war too!
Since he was an Admiral and now is a Fleet, he must be freakin' strong!

Now talking about the Shichibukai! If Jinbei and Hancock doesn't make their way to Mariejois I think that WB will have an advantage!

[bittman]

If Sengoku needs to fight it means they're losing. It's never wise to send out your head first, because, just like a chicken, an army or pirate crew without a head will run around without direction and eventually die.

So no, I don't see Sengoku fighting because that would mean the 3 admirals and 5 (to 7) attending Shichibukai have already lost/are losing.

[d3death]

now this is one relevant poll..

and now i am wishing i didn't vote earlier

[kkck]

now this is one relevant poll..

and now i am wishing i didn't vote earlier

Lol, who did you vote for?

I still have yet to vote in this pool(even though I started it lol) because I cannot make up my mind. On one hand the WG is gathering every asset it has among the shichibukai and marines to fight WB. That would suggest the shichibukai are not enough to deal with him. On the other hand it is possible the WG is also preparing for a confrontation with dragon, a situation which would not really tell us much about the strength on the shichibukai in comparison to WB.

[Lord Rayleigh]

It seems the WG has already lost 2 Schichibukai for the battle : Jimbei and BB.
But I think this poll was already obvious : the Royal Schichibukai are not enough to deal with 2500 1600 WB pirates (and the other crews that come with them). It is why this war includes the marine as a WB's opponent.

[d3death]

i had voted for Shichibubaki... but there is no way they alone can win it..

->jenbei would rather fight for WB
->BB seems to get away from fight ( so far)
moria has lost his army.. (still is a bad ass but losing odz and general zombies counts as a big loss)
->Hancock.. well she would fight with marines.. but if luffy asks her.. she'll help WB anytime.. (might even be of critical help in freeing ace again)
->Kuma.. so-called most obedient.. but can disobey orders... and somehow knows dragon.. and if dragon shows up.. well who can say...
->Mihawk.. ok he is strong.. but laidback.. still undecided about role he will play
->doflamingo.. another dont know.. he'll fight i guess..

but when it comes to Shichibukai Vs. WB and with so many doubts.. WB is certain winner..

[BlackHair]

If we only consider: WB Pirates (1600 men) vs 7 Gods (+crew) without any influence of other groups or organisations, then I think WB would lose.

BUT in the current events I think WB might win. At least his goal to rescue Ace will be a success. Whether he himself will be still alive/healthy after the war is another question. I mean we have a possible join in from Dargon, Kuma who acted weird on SA, Jimbei who was from begin on WB's side, Hancock who might join force with Luffy (WB) and BB who acts on his own.

So the anti-WG force is several times overpowered if u ask me.

[Lord Rayleigh]

If we only consider: WB Pirates (1600 men)
Oh, I do not know what I have said 2500. Thanks, I am going to correct it. And do you know what chapter/page said it ?

[BlackHair]

It was stated in the yellow databook. Here (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=13082847&postcount=7) is a translation from that page. As far as I know the number wasn't mentioned in the manga (yet).


In order to properly manage the 1600 strong "family", the crew is split into 16 divisions. The posts of division leader are held by top class followers, who manage the rowdy fellows under their command. [..]

[Lord Rayleigh]

The fact that Marco is the leader of the 1st division means that he leads another boat that the one WB leads. It is after all why what he leads is named a division. That means he is not the first-rate, he is the commander of the first division of the WB pirates. He is not in charge of the Moby Dick and they should be a first-rate in charge in second of the Moby Dick like their is always with pirate crews.
I am really waiting for the revelation of the old WB crew that should be on the Moby Dick with WB. I do not know when Oda will show it but I think it is on purpose he did that for the people to show the epicness of WB's entrance in the manga.
A proof about that idea would be that Shanks did not really know Marco - it seems he was surprised to see who he really was - whereas he often fighted against WB during the Gol D. Roger Era.
If people consider the old generation of the WB crew, they will change their mind about the all powerful WG and I guess they would bet on the WB crew.

[Schabrak]

For sure he never did fight against WB personal, nor did he likely get so near to know who was who on his ship. He was just a little boy, when he was on Rogers ship. Back than he himself and Marco where no way near their current power and just to young/get so famous to keep lasting memories of each other.

There is no word like "fighted".^^ ... he did fight. :P

Even if there is no one bigger than Odachi. Should'nt it be greater genius?

[BlackHair]

As Shanks was on Roger's ship he probably did not fight him, but now he certainly must have. After all they are rivalling pirates, who are called by the WG (and other) as the Yonko. Thus they must have fought in the past years. Otherwise the WG wouldn't put the red-hair pirates on equal fighting level of the WB pirates. Same goes for Kaido and the reaming Yonko.

[Schabrak]

The four Yonko are the most dangerous/strong people in the New World. It does not mean that everyone is equal in power. Yes their reign over it, but it's not like everybody owns part equal to their strength.

[happy GIN smily]

did anyone ever read, that WB has more than just one ship?

if he had, he would call himself "Comodore". having different divisions does not mean, that there are more ships.

all his men could live on WBs ship

[BlackHair]

@Schabrak: (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1364166&postcount=149)

Among the countless masses of pirates in the world, he is one of the four greatest, along with the infamous Whitebeard, that dwell in the latter half of the Grand Line. These pirates, who rule above all others almost as an emperor does, are called the Four Emperors, or Yonko!!! It is only Marine Headquarters and the Seven Armed Seas that can withstand their might!! These "Three Great Powers" form a precarious balance that keeps the world from destruction, lest it fall.WB pirates is without doubt the most powerful pirate crew out there. Still that doesn't mean they have no equal. Mike Tyson in his prime was the champion and was called strongest in his weight class. Did that mean he had no equal? No certainly not.

Now about the "rule" or "govern" thing, I think those 4 pirates have territories and thus sometimes conflicts with each other (=war/battles). I mean just think about how the Yonko might have established. The new world is filled with strong pirates, yet only 4 raised above anyone else (probably 3, WB was most likely at the top the whole time). The only way to rise is to fight ur way through. That is at least my opinion.

Also note the recent events: Shanks is fighting Kaido and as he visited WB, he released haki saying this is an enemy ship and that he is not there to fight. Also u have to read WB lines in that conversation/meeting. Well I have actually no doubt that those four have fought each other.

@happy GIN smily: (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1364206&postcount=150)

Marine: Actually, sir... the fleet of ships we had observing Whitebeard's mothership, the Moby Dick... ...all 23 of them... Just went blank. Signal's dead...The moby dick is called "mothership". A fleet or in his case an armada which it is leading. So yes he has probably other ships as well.

btw the quoted lines are from stephen's translation (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/onepiece.html). His translations are used by many English speaking op fans as canon.

[Benjamin Kaito]

I think the match will be extremely even but in the end the Shichibukai, aided by the Marines, will be victorious. Since the beginning of this war i had a strange feeling that WB would be defeated.

[Rotten The Wizard]

Man WB must have some MONSTERS in his crew. Marco can probably push an admiral to his farthest limits if not defeat one.

WhiteBeard Pirates for the win

[modoki]

It would indeed be a tie, however, there would be a few advantages.

Donflamingo, for example would use ventriloquism to control a great number of weak pirates on board WB's 1600 crew Moby Dick. Using those pirates against their own is a great advantage, but not enough.

Its hard to determine how "great" WB really is, because of his age, its more like a nitro tank in a car that finishes off pretty quick.

It would be a tie, since there are a lot of unexplained if's that would turn things around.

[Darkever]

To make it fair we should consider only:

WB + Marco + Ace + Jozu + Vista + 6th + 7th (+ 8th)
VS
Mihawk + Doflamingo + Kuma + Moria + Jimbei + Hancock + BB (+ Crocodile)

We don't know who are the 6th, 7th and 8th commander (the 4th was killed by BB years ago), but they sure aren't weak. The teams are quite balanced, but what would make the difference are teamwork (shichibukai have NONE) and the presence of WB. Newgate is a lot above all the others, and I think he would make the difference in the end.

[kkck]

Right now it would seem the WB pirates are vastly superior to the 7 shichibukai. Unfortunately for the shichibukai, all the commanders seem to be capable of fighting individually at an extremely high level which means the shichibukai are severely outnumbered.