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ANBU4U
June 30, 2008, 08:35 AM
Is this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/233/16-17/) Shodai Kitetsu?


For a long time now One Piece fans have speculated when Zorro might come across it but it seems as though that may not be in the cards.

One of the Five Elder Stars is holding an EXTREMELY long Nodachi with the EXACT same hilt as Sandai Kitetsu (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Kitetsu_III.gif).

Considering that Oda never reuses the hilt designs of noteworthy swords....and the old wizened look of the swords wooden sheath, then of course the stature of the man holding it....I think there is a good chance that that relic may well be the Shodai Kitetsu.

Meaning once again, that Zorro won't get it.
1) It's too long
2) It's in the hands of a man who may well never see action in the series.
3) I've always doubted whether or not Zorro would get a supreme grade blade...as for one they seem universally over sized, and two the sword would automatically overshadow Wadō Ichimonji which seems wrong somehow.

More likely Zorro will simply wield three of the Ō Wazamono Grade Swords equaling collectively the power of a Saijō Ō Wazamono Grade Sword.

If I were to be unimaginative I would guess he'll come across the Nidai Kitetsu eventually.

ZeroChrome
June 30, 2008, 08:50 AM
Oh, nice find :thumbs act I also just re-read that part and never notice the sword. I thought it was just a random stick or a cane because I didn't realize the hilt :XD
I think the Shuusui is also a long katana right? I thought that at first seeing Ryuuma holding the sword while fighting Zoro

ANBU4U
June 30, 2008, 09:35 AM
Oh, nice find :thumbs act I also just re-read that part and never notice the sword. I thought it was just a random stick or a cane because I didn't realize the hilt :XD
I think the Shuusui is also a long katana right? I thought that at first seeing Ryuuma holding the sword while fighting Zoro

Items in OP are known to fluctuate in height depending on who's holding them....Oda can be lax at times. But not this much.

Shuusui is more or less a normal sized Katana........but the sword that Elder Star is carrying is epic. If it were to stand lengthwise it would be just as tall as the Elder Star who's standing in the double spread.

goldb
June 30, 2008, 12:59 PM
I've noticed the sword before and thought about it being one of the legendary swords but I dismissed it immediatly... but now that you've mentioned it...it looks like you're onto something my friend....

Raysen_ht
June 30, 2008, 05:34 PM
Stupid question, sorry:
What is Shodai Kitetsu and Sandai Kitetsu??

I really didnt memorised the names of the special swords... Maybe someone could list them here (not everyone of them, but like, "dsfbldksfb" name refers to the best 5, "fmvbfsdlhv" to the top 21, "ajcbldajcv" to the top 50)

I guess the one mentioned on this thread is on the top 5... yes?

goldb
June 30, 2008, 07:06 PM
Stupid question, sorry:
What is Shodai Kitetsu and Sandai Kitetsu??

I really didnt memorised the names of the special swords... Maybe someone could list them here (not everyone of them, but like, "dsfbldksfb" name refers to the best 5, "fmvbfsdlhv" to the top 21, "ajcbldajcv" to the top 50)

I guess the one mentioned on this thread is on the top 5... yes?

12 Saijō Ō Wazamono (Supreme Grade Sword)

*Kokutou Yoru: The Black Blade Yoru - owned by Dracule "Hawkeye" Mihawk

*Shodai Kitetsu (First Generation Demon-Splitter) - the one we're discussing

21 Ō Wazamono (Great Grade Sword)

*Nidai Kitetsu - 二代鬼徹 (Second Generation Demon-Splitter)

*Wadō Ichimonji - 和道一文字 (The One Road of Harmony, known as simply "Wadō" in the 4Kids dub) -the one Zoro got from Kuina's dad

*Shuusui (Clear Autumn Water)- the one Zoro got after defeating Ryuuma

Ryō Wazamono Grade Swords

*Kashū - 花洲 (Flower State)-belongs to Tashigi

*Yubashiri - 雪走 (Snow Run, known as Yu-bashiri [Snow Crasher or Running Snow] in the Viz translation') -the one Zoro bought from Loguetown and was destroyed by Shuu the Marine Captain at Enies Lobby

Wazamono Grade Swords

*Sandai Kitetsu - 三代鬼徹 (Third Generation Demon-Splitter, known as Kitetsu III in the Viz translation)-Zoro bought it from Loguetown along with the Yubashiri

*Shigure - 時雨 (Drizzle, known as Autumn Rain in the Viz translation)- belongs to Tashigi

LoS
June 30, 2008, 08:22 PM
I've actually seen this idea discussed before but not on this forum.

There are 2 opinions of course and those are that Zoro will or will not fight that man when the SH's face the Gorousei.

But I would rather Zoro not get any Supreme grade swords myself, at least until he defeats Mihawk. I would rather Zoro get to the position as best swrodsman with Great Grade swords and not with Supreme Grade swords.

So I am of the opinion that he will find the Nidai before he fights Mihawk, yes I know highly unoriginal and many plot holes in this idea.

ANBU4U
June 30, 2008, 09:09 PM
I've actually seen this idea discussed before but not on this forum.

There are 2 opinions of course and those are that Zoro will or will not fight that man when the SH's face the Gorousei.

But I would rather Zoro not get any Supreme grade swords myself, at least until he defeats Mihawk. I would rather Zoro get to the position as best swrodsman with Great Grade swords and not with Supreme Grade swords.

So I am of the opinion that he will find the Nidai before he fights Mihawk, yes I know highly unoriginal and many plot holes in this idea.

Unoriginal perhaps...but I don't see any inherent plot holes.


Also, I don't see the problem with Zorro having a Supreme Grade sword...
I don't think he will ever get one because it would out value Wado...but that said if you think he WILL get one what does it matter if he does it before or after Mihawk?

The swords themselves have no inherent power....just qualities. They shouldn't really win or lose the fight for Zorro. And it's not like he's making a statement of skill by using Fine Grade swords or something.

So if you're going to let him use 3 Great Grade swords, why not a Supreme one? What statement does that make to the readers?

LoS
June 30, 2008, 10:28 PM
Unoriginal perhaps...but I don't see any inherent plot holes.

Plot holes was not the best word choice. Taxing might have been better. Because a long string of events much first happen for Zoro to wield the Nidai. First his current sword must be destroyed, because I cant just see Zoro throwing away a good sword. And if his sword does break that idea is a bit repetitive.

Then he must find the Nidai, and if someone is currently weilding the sword he must fight and defeat them. Once again it is a bit repetitive.

The best idea is that he holds onto his current swords until he defeats the Garosei member and in the process his Sandai gets broken. He then picks up the Shodai after winning the fight.
[hr]

They shouldn't really win or lose the fight for Zorro.

Except for the fact that a higher grade could more easily break a lesser grade sword. That could definitely change the balance in a duel.

ANBU4U
June 30, 2008, 11:14 PM
Except for the fact that a higher grade could more easily break a lesser grade sword. That could definitely change the balance in a duel.

We'll yea but Zorro isn't fighting with swords that poor. Perhaps the Sandai Kitetsu...but Wado and Shuusui wouldn't.

Mihawks first serious attack against Zorro seems to suggest that Great grade swords are good enough to stand up to the Supreme at least.

Still I get your point.

LoS
July 01, 2008, 12:09 AM
but Zorro isn't fighting with swords that poor
Still I get your point.

Well good thing you understand, but also did you forget that when Zoro was fighting Ryuuma he said that if the fight went any longer his swords would have broken?

Now that could have been a combination between Shuusui being heavy and very powerful causing more damage than Zoro's attack, Ryuuma being physically stronger than Zoro, or that Sandai is a lesser grade than Shuusui.

Regardless, one of those 3 factors was a huge contributor to Zoro's swords nearing the breaking point. I know Zoro later pointed out he needed to get stronger, but Sandai being a lesser grade naturally would not withstand an enduring(long lasting) battle against a higher grade sword.

Raysen_ht
July 01, 2008, 10:46 AM
I agree with LoS, a lesser grade sword wouldnt withstand a long battle with a higher grade, IF THE POWER OF THE FIGHTERS ARE EQUIVALENT... So i guess he would need at least 1 supreme sword to fight mihawk, or to get significantly stronger than the current nº 1 swordsman, to be able to defeat him with a lesser grade sword....

If he gets a supreme sword, the one on this thread might be a good choice...

Imitorar
July 01, 2008, 02:22 PM
I doubt Zoro will be getting ANY other swords, and even if he does, certainly not a sword held by one of the Gorosei, although POSSIBLY Shodai Kitetsu. I mean, all 3 of the swords Zoro has now are either his treasure (Wado Ichimonji) or he had to go through something to get them (he risked his arm to get Sandai Kitetsu, and he had to beat Ryuma to get Shusui.) So since he won those swords, I doubt they'll be replaced.

That said, I suppose I CAN see Sandai Kitetsu being replaced by a different Kitetsu. Maybe Shodai Kitetsu, but not if one of the Gorosei has it, because the odds of the Gorosei fighting ANYONE in One Piece seem rather slim, and the odds of them fighting a Straw Hat seem even slimmer. They've got desk jobs. And as to the discussion of Zoro needing higher grade swords to beat Mihawk and other future opponents, as people have said, it really doesn't matter what grade the sword is, it matters more the person who's using it, even in terms of endurance. A good swordsman will be able to use his sword effectively and reinforce it so that it can withstand fighting even a higher quality sword.

Sorata
July 01, 2008, 09:45 PM
One thing is for sure, even if Zoro replaces one of his sword, it won´t be for a sword stronger than the Wadō Ichimonji, even if he gets the Nidai Kitetsu to substitute the Sandai Kitetsu it´s ok, but he won´t get a sword stronger than the one from Kuina (Wadō Ichimonji), it just wouldn´t feel right imo.

And on top of that, Kuina´s sword already survived one attack from Mihawks sword, wich seems to be the strongest sword in the world.

hot_chips
July 02, 2008, 03:58 AM
Even if Zoro gets a sword of higher quality than Wado Ichimonji it won't replace it.
The swords rank doesn't matter to Zoro as show in Logue Town.

ZeroChrome
July 02, 2008, 04:23 AM
One thing is for sure, even if Zoro replaces one of his sword, it won´t be for a sword stronger than the Wadō Ichimonji, even if he gets the Nidai Kitetsu to substitute the Sandai Kitetsu it´s ok, but he won´t get a sword stronger than the one from Kuina (Wadō Ichimonji), it just wouldn´t feel right imo.

I doubt Zoro even knows which sword is which and which is higher ranked, unless there's Tashigi next to him :XD


And on top of that, Kuina´s sword already survived one attack from Mihawks sword, wich seems to be the strongest sword in the world.

concerning this, he held the Wado in his mouth (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/51/18/). so the sword probably received the least damage compared to the other two and probably the reason why it didn't shattered.

goldb
July 02, 2008, 08:28 AM
@zerochrome: I think he knows, he's not as absent minded as luffy is...I remember during the SHs fight with Oz he was talking about the properties of a dark blade...

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/09/

hot_chips
July 02, 2008, 08:47 AM
@zerochrome: I think he knows, he's not as absent minded as luffy is...I remember during the SHs fight with Oz he was talking about the properties of a dark blade...

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/09/
I think Zoro only knows famous swordsmen and their blades but not like a random swordsmen like Tashigi and her blades name.

SilversDKRayleigh
December 13, 2008, 06:58 PM
well since no one else has talked for a while i think that zoro's current position would be the best place to find one of the other kitetsu's but that's just a guess cause all his swords are important to him and he won't to discard just for a better one unless something happens to one of his current ones.

Lestat
December 14, 2008, 06:06 AM
I have an idea. What if the kitetsus are really just a single sword with some kind of df power, this power allows the kitetsu to transform from a lesser grade (sandai) to great grade (nidai) up to supreme grade (shodai) when some conditions are met by the wielder. What do you guys think? Sounds stupid, right?

Razh
December 14, 2008, 06:13 AM
I have an idea. What if the kitetsus are really just a single sword with some kind of df power, this power allows the kitetsu to transform from a lesser grade (sandai) to great grade (nidai) up to supreme grade (shodai) when some conditions are met by the wielder. What do you guys think? Sounds stupid, right?

It does.:s

What, single sword? How come there are more of them then?
Or, if you meant differently how come there are more of the same type of fruit?

And what would that fruit be? Strenght evaluation/evolution fruit?:p

SilversDKRayleigh
December 14, 2008, 09:57 PM
that would be weird cause the swords were crafted at different times unless its a curse curse fruit which would be even weirder but kinda cool.

Ustegius
December 15, 2008, 06:25 AM
Should I play the allmighty Haki-card? What if it is actually one sword, but evolves when imbued with haki? Thus the weaklings who have had the sword have all died, but now that it has an owner with fitting haki it has become a formiddable weapon. Okay, bit far fetched :P

It's funny how every mystery in One Piece is now possible to explain with haki :D There is no guarantee that it is the right explanation, but it is possible :D

Razh
December 15, 2008, 07:03 AM
Please people, leave the swords alone. I'm gonna be sick just reading about evolving swords. :s

Akainu
December 15, 2008, 07:50 AM
gotta catch em all, eh?

perhaps there are things like thunder- and firestones too, after all there are seastones... oh wait no, that'd hinder the DF swords from evolving ~ lol

Epikhigh
December 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
Is there any information on what is Shanks' sword? His sword looks bad-ass too... lol.

O and how about Rayleighs' sword?

And any information on Whitebeards pole-arm type weapon? Does that got a name?

I'd never thought about this before lol... but it would be interesting to know all that!

SilversDKRayleigh
December 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
Please people, leave the swords alone. I'm gonna be sick just reading about evolving swords. :s

I agree anyone that would fuse a DF with one of the named swords would just dishonor the creator of the sword and would not be a swordsmen.(Don't say that spandam was a swordsmen he was just weak):)

Imitorar
December 15, 2008, 11:02 PM
It's funny how every mystery in One Piece is now possible to explain with haki :D There is no guarantee that it is the right explanation, but it is possible :D
No, it's not possible. People just think that Haki can answer everything because they don't or won't think sensibly. I wrote "Just because you can think of a theory doesn't mean that it makes sense in the context of the story" in the 2008 Yearbook with several theories in mind, and Haki was one of the major ones.

And on the actual topic, I dunno why people think that Zoro needs to "upgrade" to an earlier Kitetsu. He's either had to go through some sort of trial for all of his current swords, or it's his treasure. I don't think he'll be getting any more new swords. And even if he does, I doubt he'll fight one of the Five Elder Stars over it. Assuming that the Five Elder Stars even fight over the course of the series, I doubt that they'll fight Zoro of all people. I just don't think that the earlier Kitetsu are important. And if they are, I doubt it's from a "Zoro will get one" perspective.

And a modly note, this isn't the "General Weapons Discusson" thread. If you want to discuss Whitebeard's glaive, or Shanks' or Rayleigh's sword, either make a Weapons Discussion thread, or do it in the Mega Convo.

mastermind05
December 22, 2008, 01:31 PM
how about the sword that law use?

SilversDKRayleigh
December 25, 2008, 02:47 AM
how about the sword that law use?

I don't think it's a kitetsu but I would be suprised if it wasn't a named sword.

mike211
July 01, 2009, 12:45 PM
have u guy's every think that the elder in "five elder stars" sword is Nidai Kitetsu (Second Generation Demon-Splitter) and not the Shodai Kitetsu (First Generation Demon-Splitter) or a different sword all together, that way zoro still have a chance upgrading his Sandai Kitetsu which is (Third Generation Demon-Splitter) to Shodai Kitetsu (First Generation Demon-Splitter), and who know maybe one day zoro found some dude to reshape his blade and blam his Wadō Ichimonji and Shuusui turn in to Supreme Grade Sword, and it was due those swords haven't been professional sharpen for a long time it turn in to Great Grade Sword.
what do u guys think? possible?

c0nflikt
July 01, 2009, 06:03 PM
Well good thing you understand, but also did you forget that when Zoro was fighting Ryuuma he said that if the fight went any longer his swords would have broken?

Now that could have been a combination between Shuusui being heavy and very powerful causing more damage than Zoro's attack, Ryuuma being physically stronger than Zoro, or that Sandai is a lesser grade than Shuusui.

Regardless, one of those 3 factors was a huge contributor to Zoro's swords nearing the breaking point. I know Zoro later pointed out he needed to get stronger, but Sandai being a lesser grade naturally would not withstand an enduring(long lasting) battle against a higher grade sword.

I think the factor here is that the real Ryuma with his own techniques and body is probably stronger than zorro he wasn't himself evidenced by him using brooks sword technique cause he had his shadow.

OdaForPresident
July 07, 2009, 01:16 PM
Zorro's sword is cursed, what if manages somehow to negate the curse? He will not lose (or break, trade, etc.) the Wado or Shuusui so the only other sword upgrade, as far as I'm concerned is his cursed sword. What if the sword got a downgrade when it was cursed? It can become 'uncursed' and regain its former glory, turning into a different sword.

Lord Rayleigh
July 07, 2009, 01:41 PM
What if the sword got a downgrade when it was cursed? It can become 'uncursed' and regain its former glory, turning into a different sword.
Actually, according to the manga, it seems that the curse was the price for such a powerful sword to exist. The curse is said to affect the user of the sword for the luck he has to own such a sword, but it was not said it reduces the power of the sword : that would destroy the meaning of the curse.

Truefan21
June 18, 2010, 12:54 AM
wow i never saw that before it seems plausible

chronojenix
August 06, 2010, 03:16 PM
tbh if i were zoro instead of abandoning it altogether i would somehow seek out kitetsu the guy who made the sword and ask him to upgrade it better than shodai kitetsu after a display of strength.

TheProtege
October 18, 2010, 01:07 AM
tbh if i were zoro instead of abandoning it altogether i would somehow seek out kitetsu the guy who made the sword and ask him to upgrade it better than shodai kitetsu after a display of strength.

hahaha at the idea of zoro finding anyone. keep in mind that 1) this man doesnt kno how to go home and 2) mihawk found him

kidopitz27
October 18, 2010, 03:47 AM
squardo the one who stabs WB is holding a large katana like weapon is it a rare weapon too?

Bhoot
October 18, 2010, 06:02 AM
uhm Ussop will find curiousty with Zolo's swords and steal em when he is sleeping or something and experiment with them or maybe just make a new sword for him and Brooks .

Goddamit i m obsessed with the idea of SH getting a blacksmith already . >"< they really could use 1 , i mean he could make a new alloy for Franky and/ or reinforce all the SH weapons .

And on topic ,
A swordsman's strength was suppose to derived from his skills and strenghts , not his swords [although having a good sword does help , but i don't like Zolo very much]

TheProtege
October 18, 2010, 10:44 AM
squardo the one who stabs WB is holding a large katana like weapon is it a rare weapon too?

I was wondering the same thing cuz the design sure looked similar to the other top 21 swords or whatever.....its so big tho...and yes thats wat she said