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sahugani
July 11, 2008, 12:30 AM
Hey guys. The new chapter of Bleach is out and can be found HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34795)

Enjoy and discuss amongst yourselves

Rotten The Wizard
July 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
this was.... a pretty worthless.....chapter

YJiang
July 11, 2008, 12:43 AM
All those "flashbacks" (...to just a few chapters ago) bothered me.

tarantula19
July 11, 2008, 12:45 AM
The anime has better fillers :s.

Freeloadersan
July 11, 2008, 12:45 AM
It basically was a setup chapter, now that both fights are properly cued up maybe we'll see some fighting next week. Anyone notice that Uryu wasn't shown with Rukia, Chad and Renji? Must still be under Nemu.

Rotten The Wizard
July 11, 2008, 12:46 AM
^^^50 bucks says the fights dont start next chapter


I mourn for this manga. It has so much potential but the writer is Lacking in the creativity department.

Cyanilurus
July 11, 2008, 01:02 AM
I think it was gigantor who said that this manga is best read in big portions. You' re all disappointed because you wanted to see the fight so badly but once we re-read it, let' s say, with a hundred other chapters, I believe it will have to do with a pretty nice pacing.
Plus, I found the Esequias intriguing, so far I thought they were only under one of the Espadas - Apollo - , but it appears they are something entirely different... and hopefully we' ll see the purpose of their creation other than only meat for the side-fights.

I stopped reading Bleach one or two chapters after the SS arc ended, because I felt it got worthless, then read it all from then on up to the, hmmmmm, probably bitchslap, and I felt it was a great read. So if you feel so bad about it I suggest you stop for a year and then get everything in one breath. ;)

someguy0830
July 11, 2008, 01:06 AM
At least the Exquias got beat up pretty good. Captain-san lived through it, so maybe Unohana will kill him.

Freeloadersan
July 11, 2008, 01:20 AM
I actually am quite patient with chapters like these. They are necessary you have to have some build up to fights. Yeah the exequias did get spanked around a bit. I kind of view them as the HM Onmitsukidō, but unlike their SS analog they aren't lead by a Esapda/Captain.

llamapie
July 11, 2008, 01:21 AM
One thing about bleach: alot of filler chapters... garbage chapters like this make no sense. Absolutely nothing happens.

Anduril
July 11, 2008, 01:28 AM
I wouldn't say it was worthless. It did show that the entire gang is pretty much back up and running at full combat capacity. It's also an interesting setup as everyone else will be taking out the Exequisas while Ichigo goes toe-to-toe with #4. Still, some of the panels are pretty badass.

gfire2
July 11, 2008, 01:44 AM
if ichigo with bankai cant outrun rukia, chad and renji he will die if ulquira gets serious, 20 pages of bs cmon, bleach fillers can do better

Cyanilurus
July 11, 2008, 01:46 AM
Not to mention, the co. fight right at the bottom of the fifth tower while Ichigo vs. Ulq happens inside... the torn up fifth tower. So maybe all of them get involved in some way... :D

Right now I' m also looking forward to the Rukia vs. Exequia captain fight, as something that will finally be tacticians' fight... that is predicting that it happens. :)

fizban
July 11, 2008, 01:56 AM
I originally thought that Orihime was taken by Stark in 313 so Aizen would have somebody in the room while he delivers exposition, but I was wrong. It was so, four chapters later (technically), she could be rescued again by Ichigo. This is going to become some sort of horrible running joke after the saga is done

Orihime: Teacher, may I go to the bathroom?
Ichigo: Guys, Orihime is missing! WE HAVE TO GO AFTER HER
Chad: I'll hold these guys off. You're the only one who can save her now

They'll find some way to incorporate Don Kanonji

Starzen
July 11, 2008, 02:41 AM
nice chapter, I only enjoyed the orihime scenes and disappointed that ichigo did not just run through those weaklings.

jdashmaj
July 11, 2008, 03:10 AM
man, stop all the crying the chapter was good when there was nothing but action in the last arc people conplained about the lack of story, now they have set up chapters to add story to the upcoming fights and ya'll still complain...relax let the story unfold

EvolutionIX
July 11, 2008, 03:19 AM
if ichigo with bankai cant outrun rukia, chad and renji he will die if ulquira gets serious, 20 pages of bs cmon, bleach fillers can do better

Ichigo with bankai is so much faster than them. Ichigo were not with them when he went after Orihime. They were coming from different directions. So maybe, they were all heading to the same spot, but from different areas, and Ichigo was the furthest away.

redcometfm
July 11, 2008, 03:36 AM
I actually loved this chapter. Gave a bit of depth to HM in ref to the Exequias and other creatures. Plus the pacing is brilliant and I think its definetly meant to signal the end of the arc. Shit's totally going down next chapter, Ichigo's right there within bitch-slapping distance of Ulquiorra!!!

ryanzokuken
July 11, 2008, 03:52 AM
i thought it was good:( why is everyone so upset?

sheesh


i'm impressed in the exequias captain now. granted, he's still probably a weakling, but at least now he's showing he's got a pair and actually trying to attack and kill a full threat enemy, rather than finishing off an opponent inches from death already, or cleaning up dead bodies, or RETREATING FROM SQUAD FOUR! :notrust

and now Ichigo has arrived. next week we'll get a stare down and some trash talk between he and Ulq, and they'll each have some big speech, Ichigo about how he will keep his friends safe and pay Ulq back for forcing Orihime to come in the first place. Ulquiorra about how all their efforts are futile and how this time he won't be so kind as last time. then the fight shall begin!!!


...or it better...

Flight-47
July 11, 2008, 03:53 AM
I found the chapter very entertaining. They sort of just forgot about Ishida, but he already showed off enough in the previous arc.


That entrance Ichigo made gives me a bad feeling that he's gonna woop Ulquiorra's ass and defy all logic by doing so. (Just like how he did against Kenpachi)

Darek Khort
July 11, 2008, 04:41 AM
Chapter was okay. Like others mentioned, you need these sort of chapters here and there. Fight after fight after fight after fight with no in-betweens would make it an endless, meaningless Battle Royale.

dreamzsai
July 11, 2008, 05:28 AM
From what i see....Ulquiora was just trying to take a chance of touching Inoue's breast...Good thing Ichigo arrived in time... xD

I kinda felt weird that Ishida didn't make an appearance, if he did, then this chapter would have had more significance, since they have sworn to live and meet again.

The GodMonster
July 11, 2008, 05:48 AM
but way kubo used flashback from chapter -107:blink ? And what is connect the actions that happening know? Chapter was really good. I predict we will see zangetsu or shirosaki or maybe something with Urahara since the flashbacks in the chapter. I predict something interesting happening:p

Fallen.
July 11, 2008, 06:01 AM
Of course yet again orihime is made useless in a chapter lol

Mythsoul
July 11, 2008, 06:10 AM
This is by far one of the best Bleach chapters....finally things seem to be coming to a conclusion at Hueco mundo...the last struggle is about to begin...and Orihime is showing Ulquiorra what is like to be human....and he seems to be curious about something so strong that he can't comprehent....and about damn time Ulquiorra and Ichigo throw down...I want to see if Ichigo finally overcomes his 11 second hollow mask.....if he can't take full control of that power

EvolutionIX
July 11, 2008, 06:34 AM
We wont know if he's gotten rid of the 11 second time frame for having a hollow mask on. Only in the real world, his limit is 11 seconds. When he came to Hueco Mundo, he extended that way further as his hollow is at home. Similar to Chad, his powers are hollow-based and he even said himself that he feel stronger.

Yannnnnnnnn
July 11, 2008, 06:44 AM
what about the other SS captains, ...... If I remember well mayuri has found something "interessant" in one of the last chapter in HM.....

Xineohp Erif
July 11, 2008, 06:58 AM
I liked the chapter, it's a good break from all the fights. I mean we have fights coming up again. But what good are constant fights when you're not even sure why they are fighting? Of course, we know Ichigo is after Ulquiorra because he kidnapped Orihime, but I think that's just a reminder for us. And now Ulquoirra is antagonizing Orihime.

It's giving depth to the series. I mean, do you honestly want the endless yelling and screaming just like DBZ did?

Bleach is action, but 24/7 gives the characters no character at all. It's like "Hey I'm just gonna keep fighting cause I hate these guys cause they're obviously evil! After I beat them, I'll be a hero!"

I liked the Orihime parts personally because she adds a different element to Bleach. You can say she's useless, but she does add something to the story. Also I do believe it's her character that's a flaw to her also seemingly godly powers.

basterd
July 11, 2008, 07:16 AM
Why you guys just stop complaining? It was a really good and well placed chapter. The last and final part of HM seems to get to us, and to prolong it with some conversation and tension is the best way for it to happen.

Everyones tension will rise a higher level and when the fight comes I believe that kubo has all this planed out really good :)

patedecarne
July 11, 2008, 07:20 AM
Please, I want to know just one, but just one reason why people are saying this chapter wasn't good, because it was one of the best chapter ever created: Action, drama, suspense and a big cliffhanger...

And the reasons to say it wasn't good aren't valid...
the people that have said this chapter was useless: do you want to understand how deeply was this chapter?

Starzen
July 11, 2008, 07:27 AM
I just hope she stays clear of the fight this time as I would hate it if she would get in the way again and ichigo has to take damage in order to protect her like in the GJ fight, I want to see the extent of ichigos abilities with out anything getting in his way, when ulq pawns him.

Smudj
July 11, 2008, 07:30 AM
I liked the chapter, it's a good break from all the fights. I mean we have fights coming up again. But what good are constant fights when you're not even sure why they are fighting? Of course, we know Ichigo is after Ulquiorra because he kidnapped Orihime, but I think that's just a reminder for us. And now Ulquoirra is antagonizing Orihime.

It's giving depth to the series. I mean, do you honestly want the endless yelling and screaming just like DBZ did?

Bleach is action, but 24/7 gives the characters no character at all. It's like "Hey I'm just gonna keep fighting cause I hate these guys cause they're obviously evil! After I beat them, I'll be a hero!"

I liked the Orihime parts personally because she adds a different element to Bleach. You can say she's useless, but she does add something to the story. Also I do believe it's her character that's a flaw to her also seemingly godly powers.

I completely agree with you. I 'm glad that Kubo's taking his time to develop these fights in his head before he puts them on paper. Especially the Aizen and Espada vs Gotei.It's not easy to develop a fight with so many important characters and half of them with yet unseen abilities in a short time. Kubo's surely aware that this is probably the most anticipated fight in the manga.
So, Kubo take your time and do your best ,no need to rush things.

This chapter was good. Emotions and bonds need development and make the manga more interesting if you ask me.
I really like the scene when Rukia tells Ichigo : "Save the reunion for later ! Hurry up and go Ichigo! " and then they just excange looks of understanding before Ichigo leaves.

gigantor21
July 11, 2008, 08:01 AM
Yes, I'm in the camp that not only liked this chapter, but felt it was sorely needed after the months of shallow nonsense that preceded it.

As most of you have probably guessed, I couldn't stand the HM Arc. The main reason is that it had about as much emotional resonance as a runthrough of Street Fighter after Rukia-Arroniero. This chapter, however, brought us out of the realm of in-game cutscenes and back to an actual story, as we were reminded that yes, they all came to save Orihime together and want to go home together. With that perspective established, Ichi-Ulq doesn't feel like a random encounter battle--and even if it sucks, I'll appreciate Kubo doing that much for a change.

He's done of good job of setting things up here. It's been a while. :p

I find it rather appalling that people think we need to keep hopscotching from fight to fight with no breaks. That type of "storytelling", if you even want to call it that, is why I stopped reading the series for more than 3 months. I'm glad Kubo did more than that this time, since this is a fight we've wanted to see for years and it deserves a good build-up.

Also, I liked the fact that they all fought together this time. It's the first time we've seen the whole party working together as a unit--another welcome change in format.

Tanma
July 11, 2008, 08:10 AM
What a useless chapter. This is not because the blah blah blah; it's because that blah blah blah turned to be very boring and repetitive.

At least Bleach is weekly, so this isn't that bad.

Tsukisama
July 11, 2008, 08:30 AM
I also enjoyed this chapter. No, it was not action-filled chapter with dazzling displays of fighting, but this sort of character-developmentally challenged, action-oriented writing is one of the major reasons we criticized during the HM arc. This chapter had rich character development spliced with scenes of mderate action in a marvelous fashion. I especially enjoyed the characterization that Ulquiorra received. Until now, he just seemed like an emotionless jerk for no reason, but now we have a reason: his empirical philosophy. Contrasting Ulquiorra's empiricism with Orihime's idealism was brilliant.

This was not just some filler chapter. If the chapter lacked the dialogue between Ulquiorra and Orihime, then it would have been just filler, but this chapter add depth to the characters and the impending battle between Ichigo and Ulquiorra. Now this battle won't just be a fight to rescue Orihime just like with Grimmjow, but it can now be a clash of ideals as well, adding the ideological element that can enhance the coming battle from being just another fight to an event worthy of memory.


At least the Exquias got beat up pretty good. Captain-san lived through it, so maybe Unohana will kill him.

From that panel, I think that Rudobon will be fought by Rukia. Rudobon is not an important enough opponent for Unohana or any of the HM-bound captains to intervene. At most, Rukia, Renji, Chad, and/or Uryuu will work together to defeat, but even that might be too much for just the Exequias captain.

VeshWolfe
July 11, 2008, 08:36 AM
I get the feeling that its going to be a very close fight between Ichigo and Ulq. Is it me or did Ulq look surprised about something pertaining to Ichigo?

ryanzokuken
July 11, 2008, 08:40 AM
Also, I liked the fact that they all fought together this time. It's the first time we've seen the whole party working together as a unit--another welcome change in format.


i think the reason we don't see much teamwork in bleach is simply because of the fighting type/kinds of abilities the characters use. with most characters abilities, they can really only go all out if they're fighting alone. if some characters were to gang up on one enemy, there would probably be a lot of accidents and friendly fire :p

Renji whips Zabimaru at Exequias captain while Chad comes from the other side of him with a CHADO PAWNCH. a simple little dodge by the Exequias captain and Chad gets a slash accross his chest and Renji takes a big blue energy blast to the face, lol.

look how hard it was for Ichigo and Byakuya to fight together against Kariya in the Bount filler. Byakuya's (granted, he didn't give a damn, he wasn't trying to be careful at all) torrent of blades nearly took Ichigo out several times.

but i guess since they're all skilled and have control, if they refrained from releasing zanpakuto's and everyone kind of stuck to melee attacks, they might be able to gang up on people without hurting eachother...


I get the feeling that its going to be a very close fight between Ichigo and Ulq. Is it me or did Ulq look surprised about something pertaining to Ichigo?

probably just surprised that Ichigo just hammered in the side of the building and crashed into the room so suddenly o_O

shinobi
July 11, 2008, 08:47 AM
just read the chapter, disappointing! has no added value, just more freaking boring chat and Ichigo is still running.

gigantor21
July 11, 2008, 08:57 AM
I especially enjoyed the characterization that Ulquiorra received. Until now, he just seemed like an emotionless jerk for reason, but now we have a reason: his empirical philosophy. Contrasting Ulquiorra's empiricism with Orihime's idealism was brilliant.

Yes, I fully agree on this. That scene did a great job of fleshing out Ulq's viewpoint--he can only understand what he sees, or what's proven as fact, and nothing else exists or matters to him. Concepts like "heart" are just empty words to him because he can't see or feel them. That's much better than his just being emotionless, which is all we really knew until today. That's why I preferred the story emphasis this week.

kkck
July 11, 2008, 09:02 AM
How come ishida wasnt in the chapter?

hajialibaig
July 11, 2008, 09:43 AM
Just skimmed through the chapter in 5 seconds. It looked kinda boring and useless, but atleast it was somewhat of a build-up attempt to the upcoming battles. I just hope the manga switches back to SS vs. Aizen next week

And yea, a lot of people are disappionted here. That's pretty understandable; with such a big huge fight rolling on in the real world, who needs chapters like this, we need to see the main event :@

ThaGreatOne
July 11, 2008, 10:12 AM
Um we already know why they are fighting because of the chapters before gaiden and the gaiden itself. THOSE chapters where to set up the fight we didn't need this worthless filler chapter. People say this chapter was a good set-up but HOW? We already knew the team got healed up BEFORE the gaiden and nothin new happened except Ulq. wanting to touch some tits and some weakling trash enemies were thrown in. The flashbacks didn't help set anything up either, all the gaiden chapters and the chapter before gaiden did that alone, now THOSE were story building chapters that I enjoyed and yea I knew there would be a few filler chapters before the fights but this is a WEAK filler. And before people jump on me about "oh people hated when there was just fighting" i think people were hating on the nnoitora Kenpachi fight alone just because no new abilities (shikai name ability etc.) came from Kenpachi and it was just slash after slash but most people still liked it. We all know filler chapters happen in manga but Kubo can do better so i hope he did this weak filler to save his energy for the chapters to come. I expect two more chapters before any real fighting gets started

ajaxsoccerjon
July 11, 2008, 10:37 AM
This chapter solidifies the fact that Rukia is now a worthless character. Her little Sode No Shirayuki has little to no effect on anyone anymore. And yeah this chapter was terrible, lemme sum it up. "Run Run Run, Exequias leader +50, Chad Renji, Rukia, friends til he end, Orihime talks more crap about her heart that Ulquiorra cant understand because hes just an idiot." This is dissapointing because the Turn Back the Pendulum Arc was 100X better than this crap. Im actually sad to see it go.

munafn
July 11, 2008, 10:48 AM
if ichigo with bankai cant outrun rukia, chad and renji he will die if ulquira gets serious, 20 pages of bs cmon, bleach fillers can do better

haha i dont know why but its freakishly funny yet true...lol. I actually got on to complain about the chapter..but i always keep an open mind and i read through the discussions and opinions of many of u. I have concluded not to whine about the chapter. I am actually in a good mood beacause i feel like laughing at the things i get to read here.. for example this caught my eye which was in gigantor21's sig :

"Roses are red.
Violets are blue.
Omae wa mo shindeiru!" ( lit translation should be: you are now/already dead?)

then theres ajaxsoccerjon..thats amazing..i like how u summed up the chapter as well as maintaining this almost comical tone. rukia is kind of worthless i feel but she has made herself useful before. and props to the person who said ulq just wanted to feel hime's breast..lol

like i said i thought the chapter was useless at first but i respect everyones opinion. Its true, we are heading back on track and i expect atleast some sort of fight to start next week. If its something ive learned from bleach, its patience. Oh and if theres someone out there thats posting to complain about the chapter...try reading the first 3 pages of this thread..its funny. i love this board..lol

someguy0830
July 11, 2008, 11:43 AM
From that panel, I think that Rudobon will be fought by Rukia. Rudobon is not an important enough opponent for Unohana or any of the HM-bound captains to intervene. At most, Rukia, Renji, Chad, and/or Uryuu will work together to defeat, but even that might be too much for just the Exequias captain.The sad part is you're probably right. I only hold out hope because he ran from Unohana once and is already picking fights again. If for no other reason than to reinforce her earlier point that they didn't come to fight (well, she didn't anyway, the others sure did), it would be nice to see her show up.

dreamzsai
July 11, 2008, 11:45 AM
Hmm, anyone else saw the colored page regarding the next Bleach movie coming in December? Seems like it's gonna revolve around Rukia this time...

espressokev
July 11, 2008, 11:53 AM
wow, some people just can't be satisfied...

i'm hoping that Ulqi is gunna give us some insight into the top 3 espada during this fight. Just a history from his perspective would be awesome. Grim's history really gave you a feel for who he was, and with this whole heart thing, i'm sure Ulqi is going to get an exposition.

nl1421
July 11, 2008, 11:58 AM
What the hell are some of you talking about; Rukia wasn't trying to kill that guy. We have yet to see her true strength. Which I'm pretty sure rivals that of Renji's. When she fought the 9th espada the only reason she got gravely injured was due to the fact that she did nothing to stop the coming attack, due to the guilt Kaien’s face was causing her. So we have yet to see her in action. I've read that people say Rukia got lucky, well if you guys pay attention you would know that they both got "lucky". She even told the Espada that she had been holding back, to learn the truth of his being. After that Rukia did not get to fight due to the guilt she felt.
As for Ichigo if you guys can think back to the first time Uliquiorra and Yami went to Karakura, to look for him. Uliquiorra said this, "Just what is going on? At one moment he's trash, and then the next ... He's even more powerful Than I." He said this when Ichigo's hollow-shinigami powers were fluctuating. So no, in reality Ichigo has gotten a shit ton better at controlling his power, although he has yet to grasp the full extent of it. He has even learned how to mold and sense reiatsu, unlike the previous ss arc. For Ex. He protected Nel from his own reiatsu and the pre-Espada and he sensed Rukia's and Chad's Reiatsu-s right away. So Ichigo has gone a long way. So in essence don’t be surprised if he kicks the shit out of Uliquiorra which he can. But I’m sure Kubo will make it interesting. So if Kubo keeps true to his writing Ichigo should be a lot more powerful right now. The only reason the 5th espada kicked his ass, was due to the reason he was already injured and was protecting Inoue.

As for you guys that are saying that this chap sucked. It just means that you have no basis on how to write, express character feelings, and appreciate plots. Everything that Kubo has done has its reason. This chapter just opened the gateway to the rest of the Bleach series, back with Japan's favorite 6. I mean it would just be stupid to leave Rukia (2nd most popular character in bleach, now probably the 1st because of the new movie), Renji, Ishida, and Chad out. And this chapter did have action. And don’t forget there is still more build up coming. We have yet to hear from Isshin, the vizards (where they are and what side they are part off), and even Ichigo’s sisters-friends.

So yes, Kubo did do a tight ass job. These coming up fight scenes could ruin his rep. He’s not some stupid writer who will jump into the greatest fight the Bleach manga has seen. So chill and wait. And don’t judge, 99% of you couldn’t write nearly as good as he can.
[hr]

hajialibaig
July 11, 2008, 12:14 PM
This chapter didn't add anything to the story. Maybe that's why a lot of people are disappointed. The chapter pretty much reiterated what was known from the last 4 months... ichigo running, ulquiorra wanting to touch inuoe, and the crap...

In my books, Kubo's been on a 3 week haitus so far, how long do you think it will last? 6 weeks?

patedecarne
July 11, 2008, 12:31 PM
In my books the hiatus was just one week, because this chapter was one of the best up the date; the previous chapter was more filler than this one, and it's relative when people said that this isn't the main event;

To me, Ulquiorra and Ichigo's fight must be labeled as so important as the other fights in fake Karakura, or even more; there's so much in this fight, everything Ichigo fought for will be decided now;

Then, this fight also is a main event in my point of view, and this chapter just gave a tremendous boost of climax until next

zzlow
July 11, 2008, 01:07 PM
How come ishida wasnt in the chapter?

Ishida serving tables on the beach

ajaxsoccerjon
July 11, 2008, 01:50 PM
In my books the hiatus was just one week, because this chapter was one of the best up the date; the previous chapter was more filler than this one, and it's relative when people said that this isn't the main event;

To me, Ulquiorra and Ichigo's fight must be labeled as so important as the other fights in fake Karakura, or even more; there's so much in this fight, everything Ichigo fought for will be decided now;

Then, this fight also is a main event in my point of view, and this chapter just gave a tremendous boost of climax until next


Are you kidding me? The last chapter gave us an insight as to what exactly th captains are up against, and um yeah Yama-jii released and trapped Aizen, Tosen, and Gin inside a fire wall. Bear in mind that actually isnt that awesome, but its better than seeing pervy Ulquiorra, weak as Ganju Exequias, and Ichigo....running.

patedecarne
July 11, 2008, 02:06 PM
Well, almost kind of fight can be considered a main event, it only depends from your POV, some time ago, I've posted some reasons why I think this battle is epic and important as the ones in Fake Karakura;

Of course some people won't agree with that, but I'm analyzing this chapter so deeply that I'm thinking this battle as the most epic I've seen;

But the only thing tha bother me is that some people are complaining about this chapter without arguments; It's okay to not like this chapters, but reasons like "this chapter was bad because was filler" or "this chapter was bad because it hasn't any fightS" aren't arguments, and instead,, the only thing we'll see here is some spam fest, and Tsuki and Gig always are trying to prevent this spam fest, but if people aren't giving solid arguments, then this Spam fest will be inevitable, unfortunately...

ShaunMati1
July 11, 2008, 05:07 PM
I dont think anyone is mad at the last few chapters cuz there was no fights. IMO im mad cuz orihime is the most annoying anime character ever. I swear i dont know how many times they have stressed the importance of friendship in bleach. Everytime orihime says something i just wanna punch her in the face. Nothing coming out of her mouth really means anything. Shes always either scared, or worried. All this chapter did was announce again that Ichigo, chad, ishada, renji, orihime, and rukia are Close Friends....i already knew that/

matsemann08
July 11, 2008, 05:38 PM
Boooooooooring chapter.......
As ShaunMati1 said:

All this chapter did was announce again that Ichigo, chad, ishada, renji, orihime, and rukia are Close Friends....i already knew that

ajaxsoccerjon
July 11, 2008, 06:15 PM
Ulquiorra ill give you like 200$ to kill her. No joke

Koen
July 11, 2008, 06:35 PM
Well a pretty boring chapter. Nothing new happened unless some chit chat we have heard several times between ulq and orihime and arriving at the place where he should be. Imo an a trapped aizen, gin and tousen + an espada chit chat before figthing would and could have been more usefull

let's hope next and better

ThaGreatOne
July 11, 2008, 06:42 PM
Well, almost kind of fight can be considered a main event, it only depends from your POV, some time ago, I've posted some reasons why I think this battle is epic and important as the ones in Fake Karakura;

Of course some people won't agree with that, but I'm analyzing this chapter so deeply that I'm thinking this battle as the most epic I've seen;

But the only thing tha bother me is that some people are complaining about this chapter without arguments; It's okay to not like this chapters, but reasons like "this chapter was bad because was filler" or "this chapter was bad because it hasn't any fightS" aren't arguments, and instead,, the only thing we'll see here is some spam fest, and Tsuki and Gig always are trying to prevent this spam fest, but if people aren't giving solid arguments, then this Spam fest will be inevitable, unfortunately...

No people don't like this chapter because it didn't add SHIT to the story. Everything that happen enforced something we already knew. We already had the notion of Ulq. being an emo who wanted to get some tit, and we already knew the 6 friends had been revived BEFORE the gaiden started. We already knew Ichigo was running to fight Ulq for months and we even knew they were already gonna fight for even longer. People are saying this is great writing but there is nothing new about it!! The "Ichigo rushes to save Orehime from a super-powerful villian" has already been done countless times (Grimmjow anyone?) the friendship thing has also been done. I understand the purpose of a filler and of chapters that add depth to the story LIKE THE GAIDEN but this chapter was not that. To me it seemed more like the anime version of a filler and those usually suck compared to the manga filler. I'm sorry Ichigo vs Ulq doesn't determine the fate of everything like Aizen vs soul society does. Even if you love Ichigo and Ulq their battle doesn't determine that much in comparision to the Fake KT Battle. If Ichigo were to lose he has his friends PLUS a few captains to step in and beat Ulq....if Aizen lost then the arc would end, if the captains lost then the villains get closer to destroying soul society and the people with KT. Plus we get more story on the viazard to advance the plot which is what EVERYONE WHO LIKES THE CHAPTER argues for. How much plot advancement can u have with Ichigo in comparison to KT? Ichigo wont die here so no real suspense like I said. Fake Karuka Town > Ichigo saving Orehime (again) battle.

someguy0830
July 11, 2008, 06:42 PM
Ishida serving tables on the beachOr getting a little extra healing from Nemu. Seemed to work pretty well for her, after all.

gold349
July 11, 2008, 06:59 PM
There had to be a chapter like this some where to signal the unity and how they over came the danger in order to get their nakama back. I thought Ishida would be there too, maybe he'll show up next chapter?. I quit liked it, the ones that came for Orihime are alive and still standing...they are fighting again...Ulquara and Ichigo show down the one that has been anticipated and awaited for so long is here, I don't understand the fuss. I too want to see the Espada in action (top 3) that and also this, lets just wait patiently and the fight(s) will be awesome. Chapters like this add depth gives a flavour to what is happening and why, these chapters give meaning to the action and for whom and what they are fighting for, maybe in a few chapters time if we read a couple of chapters either side of this one, it won't seem so bad and wouldn't seem out of place, maybe it will feel as if it needed this or chapter like this where it is now.

ShaunMati1
July 11, 2008, 07:12 PM
There had to be a chapter like this some where to signal the unity and how they over came the danger in order to get their nakama back. I thought Ishida would be there too, maybe he'll show up next chapter?. I quit liked it, the ones that came for Orihime are alive and still standing...they are fighting again...Ulquara and Ichigo show down the one that has been anticipated and awaited for so long is here, I don't understand the fuss. I too want to see the Espada in action (top 3) that and also this, lets just wait patiently and the fight(s) will be awesome. Chapters like this add depth gives a flavour to what is happening and why, these chapters give meaning to the action and for whom and what they are fighting for, maybe in a few chapters time if we read a couple of chapters either side of this one, it won't seem so bad and wouldn't seem out of place, maybe it will feel as if it needed this or chapter like this where it is now.

Again...its not about the fights. One thing u should know is that repetitiveness is never good for a show of any kind. When u stress in the beginning of the manga that ichigo brought out the powers in chad and orihime and impressed ishada and worked with him and had a connection with rukia and renji that they will be close. When orihime sees her hollow brother coming after her in her house "oh look ichigo and rukia came to save me".Then in soul society everyone comes for rukia and again "my friends came to save me". Then the arrancar arc where yammy meats up with orihime "oh look my friends came to save me" then when she gets kidnapped to HM "Oh look my friends came to save me...AGAIN" then now with ulquiorra "oh look my friends came to save me for another time"....eventually that gets really freakin old. If u enjoy seeing that then good for u. IMO that doesnt help the manga at all. Ive never wanted orihime killed off more then now.

ThaGreatOne
July 11, 2008, 07:19 PM
okay well let me put it this way:

when u usually take a break u come back with some really good material right? What i mean is that you take a hiatus to prepare for a much anticipated event. Now how many people anticipate as filler??? ZERO which is the point of the fuss i think. I mean i believe he could have put this chapter out last week THEN take the hiatus THEN show the ichigo and soul society battle not take a hiatus to build up anticipation for a filler that adds NOTHING. Look at what you saw...nothing that you didn't already know before hand and i think next week will probably be the same judging from how this chapter ended...but im sure everyone can agree that this chapter could have been put out before the hiatus
[hr]

Again...its not about the fights. One thing u should know is that repetitiveness is never good for a show of any kind. When u stress in the beginning of the manga that ichigo brought out the powers in chad and orihime and impressed ishada and worked with him and had a connection with rukia and renji that they will be close. When orihime sees her hollow brother coming after her in her house "oh look ichigo and rukia came to save me".Then in soul society everyone comes for rukia and again "my friends came to save me". Then the arrancar arc where yammy meats up with orihime "oh look my friends came to save me" then when she gets kidnapped to HM "Oh look my friends came to save me...AGAIN" then now with ulquiorra "oh look my friends came to save me for another time"....eventually that gets really freakin old. If u enjoy seeing that then good for u. IMO that doesnt help the manga at all. Ive never wanted orihime killed off more then now.


I agree 100% like many people that you would call "complainers" have said their is nothing new added just the same repetitive themes and ideals behind an ichigo fight...nothing new here nothing to add to the plot we already knew ulq was emo so those words didnt even surprise me and im sure lots of people can say the same. nothin new to Orihime's words either cuz she's always captured and threatened then saved so of course she wouldn't be afraid because she KNOWS that everytime somebody will save her it never fails. Maybe if she got stabbed that would make the chapter better but its just the same ol same ol

godspeed
July 11, 2008, 09:27 PM
Please, I want to know just one, but just one reason why people are saying this chapter wasn't good, because it was one of the best chapter ever created: Action, drama, suspense and a big cliffhanger...

And the reasons to say it wasn't good aren't valid...
the people that have said this chapter was useless: do you want to understand how deeply was this chapter?

Sure this chapter might have been well written. But that doesn't mean you have to like it. By "not good", people mean they don't like what the chapter covered; they're not saying that this chapter is badly written.

ThaGreatOne
July 11, 2008, 09:48 PM
if the chapter was so great there would be more discussion but there is nothing to really discuss since anything we could have discussed have already been discussed two weeks ago with the before hiatus chapter

eddy26
July 12, 2008, 01:47 AM
I don't know why people would complain about this chapter. Yeah fine everyone expected the KK battle to begin but you know what this chapter is needed. Kubo has no other choice but to start at least one of the battles in the next chapter this chapter kind of cornered him in. Ichigo is there now not heading towards the tower but right in front of Ulquiorra. The only way I could see Kubo delaying the battles anymore is if he shows Rukia, Renji, and Chad vs. the Exequias now that would be something to complain about. Personally I want to know where Uryuu is I mean the chapter was called six hearts will beat as one but there where only 5.
With Ulquiorra talking about his eye and everything I'm figuring his release will be related to his eye. Maybe Kubo should have switched it so that Zomari's release which included all those eyeballs as Ulquiorra's released state. Either that or Ulquiorra might release and become a cyclops type of monster.
As for the whole repetitive problem well you know what the whole manga is based on relationships and friendships. That isn't going to magically change Kubo has written the manga in this way and it'll probably end on this same note. If you are getting bored of it you are going to stop reading the manga so there is no need to complain. Look at Inuyasha that was a repetitive manga it never changed it was 500+ chapters long and it was always based on trying to destroy the shikon no tama. It just swapped in some new bad guys but none of the good guys ever died. I got bored of it after a while and just stopped reading it. Now that it ended I decided to go back and read what I missed.

KALiZU
July 12, 2008, 05:56 AM
Wow I never thought people would seriously dislike this chapter and call it worthless. It is, imo, one of the best chapters in Bleach. I especially liked the depth that Kubo gave to Ulquiorra's character. With that disturbing speech of his.. >.<

And about it not having a fight, I think it was very nice NOT to have a fight in this chapter since it would make the new arc too hollow, with all the recent fighting (yama-ji etc). It was a perfectly placed chapter.

Well that's my opinion and I can't change what some of you guys think, but be patient and you'll get your fight next week. :/

wrstljr
July 12, 2008, 06:02 AM
2/10

The 2 points were awarded for the exqueis guy thinking he could take Ichigo even though Ichigo had just beat several people who vastly outranked him.

What complete crap Bleach is becoming...How many chapters can Kubo possibly drag out Ichigo running towards Orhime.

Kubo;s thought process

"Oh I just made Ichigo beat Grimmjow...so now its time to use my surpise Aizen was a genius card and completely f over the protaginists once again...Now lets see how should I have Ichigo respond to this...well I'm sure he wants to save hooters so i'll draw a panel of him racing towards her...yeah everyone likes racing Ichigo. Now I should have some explanation of how everything is going to happen in the next few moments...nahh scratch that Ill go to flashback chapters that will explain everything up to this point...Oh crap I didn't think any of this out and I have no imagination anymore..well I'll make up some new kidou attacks (lets see...generic blasts sound great) cue Aizen being a genius and we are out of the flashback without me having to flesh out any real details of what happened afterward...Ok back to the present...Lets see Ill draw Ichigo racing and Orihime talking about some crap no one cares about her...should I draw a My Chemical Romance tatoo on Ulqi...no that would ruin his release form...Hmm lets see what next..Old man flame box...Ichigo racing..Orihime talking about friends...

Well thats enough hard work time to go on a break.

Phew...good break back to work..Hmm first panel....Ichigo racing seems to be in high demand...after that some more Orihime friendship stuff...ill top it off with Ulqi shopping at hot topic and getting some sort of bolted piercing.

Well thats good for bleach...now onto wondering how I could be more like Oda.

Oda-Sensei...please teach me how to not suck"

Oda responds

Eat a blow-blow no fruit and stop complaining...and how about draw a fucking background for once.


I feel better now.

hitokugutsu
July 12, 2008, 06:11 AM
okay well let me put it this way:

when u usually take a break u come back with some really good material right? What i mean is that you take a hiatus to prepare for a much anticipated event. Now how many people anticipate as filler??? ZERO which is the point of the fuss i think. I mean i believe he could have put this chapter out last week THEN take the hiatus THEN show the ichigo and soul society battle not take a hiatus to build up anticipation for a filler that adds NOTHING. Look at what you saw...nothing that you didn't already know before hand and i think next week will probably be the same judging from how this chapter ended...but im sure everyone can agree that this chapter could have been put out before the hiatus
<hr noshade size="1">


When manganaka take a hiatus its not to complete to next chapter. They usually do this to come up with the structure for the next chapters and fights. And if you noticed, there are a lot of fights coming up. Kubo just used his free week to determine in wich order the fights will al take place, how many chapters to use for one fight, location of the fights etc.
Either way it doesnt change the fact that this chapter could have been summed up in 6 pages if you remove the filler. At least we didn't get the usual "Kurosaki-kun....."

KALiZU
July 12, 2008, 06:29 AM
Either way it doesnt change the fact that this chapter could have been summed up in 6 pages if you remove the filler.

If Kubo did make Orihime and co. do all that in 6 pages, and then suddenly shift to a fight from yama-ji and co., it would seriously ruin the mood and concept of the chapter. :/

Yabe
July 12, 2008, 06:42 AM
I just have to warn ShaunMati1 for his harsh way of discussing (and apparently unfair to look across), if my post's considered improper or a spam then please delete it without reminding me.

@ShaunMati1: Watch your words dude, you've got your own right to detest Orihime and your reasons for the cause are understandable to me, but there're some people who are more sensible than you and can see the good parts of her character and appreciate them reading this thread, and that way of your explosion of hate only gives them motivation to bash you about it, not shutting up their mouth.

Zeus-Tails
July 12, 2008, 12:11 PM
Gimme a break, they are gonna give Rukia MORE screentime (against the Exequias Captain)? Why? She friggin sucks! Her skills are subpar and her background story is boring. I'd rather Chad fight right now (unless Kubo is actually saving him for Yammi).

igotthegoods
July 12, 2008, 12:35 PM
Gimme a break, they are gonna give Rukia MORE screentime (against the Exequias Captain)? Why? She friggin sucks! Her skills are subpar and her background story is boring. I'd rather Chad fight right now (unless Kubo is actually saving him for Yammi).

i'm not surprised at all to see rukia have some screentime coming up. she was out of the story for months after her fight with aaroniero and really hasn't done much since then. plus, she's a very popular character, so it only makes sense that they'll give her some focus. i'm with you that i'd rather see chad fight, though. that guy needs a win!

if you don't like rukia or whoever, that's fine and you are certainly entitiled to your opinion. but everyone please remember that we don't allow character bashing in here, ok? :)

dreamzsai
July 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
Ichigo wont die here so no real suspense like I said. Fake Karuka Town > Ichigo saving Orehime (again) battle.
Yea, sad, but true....


you've got your own right to detest Orihime and your reasons for the cause are understandable to me, but there're some people who are more sensible than you and can see the good parts of her character
Well said, Inoue represents love, peace and carries anti-war message. She's someone who seeks all this in a world where war and fights are almost everywhere.

But well, since the main character can't die, Ichigo saving Inoue isn't really nice to watch, considering the outcome is kinda one-sided. I'd liked the story more if Ishida was made to be the one who actually "loves" Inoue, and is the "Knight in shining armor" here coming to rescue her. And perhaps die in the process, it might made the story better =/

redcometfm
July 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
Geez, what a bunch of bitchers. You dont get your fight that youve been looking for and all of sudden Bleach is crap and blah blah blah. Bunch of spoiled whiners.

mdp
July 12, 2008, 01:58 PM
Not every chapter can be pure fighting, that would get boring very quick. Chapters like this give us a well needed break between the excessive fights! This just makes me look forward to the fights even more! Too bad kenpachi couldnt have ripped thru the exequitas or w/e that woulda been badass. I am wondering where ishida is tho, that sly beast.

gold349
July 12, 2008, 02:37 PM
Anybody got an idea who this "INVASOR" is?... www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/10 its like he's speaking to someone...informing him/her/them that he has spotted Ichigo. (apology if its already been asked)

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 02:50 PM
thank god that there was a chapter this week or else I seriously would've died of boredom.

this chapter wasn't the most awesomest ever chapter, but thank god that the story line is progressing further ahead and that the allies are all recovered and ready for battle once more. all in all this was a good chapter for the story line to move ahead and into the next battle(s)! :tem

-----I really hope that Nel recovers and returns to her espada body and joins Ichigo's crew and helps to fight along side him.
[hr]

Geez, what a bunch of bitchers. You dont get your fight that youve been looking for and all of sudden Bleach is crap and blah blah blah. Bunch of spoiled whiners.

ADD ON!!!-----> AND when the all anticipated-huge-crazy battle that everyone wanted starts, its still bitched about because it isnt played out the way that they wanted it to happen...:notrust

ThaGreatOne
July 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
Oh please just because people don't like repetitive chapters that add nothing to the story they have to be whiners? I could see if this chapter gave some REAL backstory but it did not. Since you guys wanna label people whiners tell me ONE THING that you learned from this chapter that you DID NOT already know from chapter 315-the gaiden-and chapter 316.......................................dont worry I'll wait..............oh yea NOTHING!!!! you learn absolutely nothing at all!!! That is why people are upset...we expected the filler but a filler with NO plot advancement? Just Ichigo doing the usual..... it's a 100% chance he wont die and 99.9 percent chance Inoue wont even get touched anymore after Ulq cops a feel

Franckie
July 12, 2008, 03:41 PM
Anybody got an idea who this "INVASOR" is?... www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/10 its like he's speaking to someone...informing him/her/them that he has spotted Ichigo. (apology if its already been asked)

If I remember right, "Invasor" is Spanish for "invader".

Tsukisama
July 12, 2008, 03:42 PM
Oh please just because people don't like repetitive chapters that add nothing to the story they have to be whiners? I could see if this chapter gave some REAL backstory but it did not. Since you guys wanna label people whiners tell me ONE THING that you learned from this chapter that you DID NOT already know from chapter 315-the gaiden-and chapter 316.......................................dont worry I'll wait..............oh yea NOTHING!!!! you learn absolutely nothing at all!!! That is why people are upset...we expected the filler but a filler with NO plot advancement? Just Ichigo doing the usual..... it's a 100% chance he wont die and 99.9 percent chance Inoue wont even get touched anymore after Ulq cops a feel

I learned the name of the leader of the Exequias: Rudobon. In fact, I learned a good deal more about the Exequias like how it is a lot larger than I originally thought. I learned that Rukia and Renji are finished healing. The most important thing I learned, however, was Ulquiorra's philosophical beliefs, the essence of his character. I am going to quote myself just because I would be restating the same argument again:


I also enjoyed this chapter. No, it was not action-filled chapter with dazzling displays of fighting, but this sort of character-developmentally challenged, action-oriented writing is one of the major reasons we criticized during the HM arc. This chapter had rich character development spliced with scenes of mderate action in a marvelous fashion. I especially enjoyed the characterization that Ulquiorra received. Until now, he just seemed like an emotionless jerk for no reason, but now we have a reason: his empirical philosophy. Contrasting Ulquiorra's empiricism with Orihime's idealism was brilliant.

This was not just some filler chapter. If the chapter lacked the dialogue between Ulquiorra and Orihime, then it would have been just filler, but this chapter add depth to the characters and the impending battle between Ichigo and Ulquiorra. Now this battle won't just be a fight to rescue Orihime just like with Grimmjow, but it can now be a clash of ideals as well, adding the ideological element that can enhance the coming battle from being just another fight to an event worthy of memory.

This chapter was not worthless. It did give real backstory to the plot. Defining Ulquiorra's character, setting up the emotional conflict before the swords are drawn, these things are the backstory for the coming fight between Ulquiorra and Ichigo. If Ichigo and Ulquiorra had just started fighting this chapter, then it would not have the emotional drama that the fight is now sure to have.

One of main points of this chapter was to underscore the philosophical beliefs of Ichigo and friends as voiced by Orihime's narration: that they are bonded to one another, that they would do anything for each other. Ichigo now won't just be fighting to secure Orihime or even to get vengence on Ulquiorra, but his battle will have a deeper meaning; he will be fighting to defend the power of the heart against Ulquiorra's views, which are empirical (perhaps even bordering on phenomenalist) in nature.

This chapter was necessary IMO for the Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra fight, as it ties up the sentiments of the protagonists from the beginning of the arc when Ichigo, Rukia, Renji, Chad, and Uryuu gathered in a circle to show their unity in rescuing Inoue to now. The only thing that I might say in defense of the people who were against this chapter is that Kubo could have delayed this chapter and done a chapter focusing on the events in fake KK Town, but I can't even say that with much sincerity, because we knew from the end of last chapter that the events happening in HM would take centerstage this chapter and that the events of fake KK Town would be put on the back burner.

Last chapter where the main consequence was Yamamoto trapping the traitor captains in his fire prison was more of a filler chapter. It was an interesting development, and I enjoyed seeing Yamamoto release, but all it served to do was delay the plot. That chapter was as much setup as was needed for the fights between the SS forces and the espada. There is no big emotional conflict between SS and the espada. They are enemies, and when the action returns to them, they will begin fighting. It reminds me of GJ's words to Ichigo near the beginning of his final battle with him (paraphrased since I don't feel it is worth me looking up the exact words): "you are a shinigami, and I am a hollow; what more reason do we need to fight?" The fight between Ichigo and Ulquiorra will be more than that. They have fought before, and there are emotions and beliefs on the line here in a way different from the fighting set to take place in fake KK.

So, I'll say it once more for a nice summary: this was not a filler chapter. This chapter focused on character/emotional development, and while it does not have the flashy action of a fight-focused chapter or the enigmatic intrigue of a mystery-chapter, this chapter has its merits and is just as necessary to the manga as the other types of chapters.

So, please just accept it. You will have your fights beginning in the next chapter I'm sure. This chapter mainly dealt with the characters' emotions (which are again very important), and if you don't feel like discussing the emotions (I know that many of you are guys and discussing feelings may not seem that interesting to you), you can focus on the second half of the topic for this thread by predicting what you think will happen in the next chapter.


If I remember right, "Invasor" is Spanish for "invader".

Thanks, Franckie. I was thinking that he was addressing Ichigo when he made this statement, but this should clear up any confusion on the matter.

ThaGreatOne
July 12, 2008, 03:49 PM
"I learned the name of the leader of the Exequias: Rudobon. In fact, I learned a good deal more about the Exequias like how it is a lot larger than I originally thought. I learned that Rukia and Renji are finished healing. The most important thing I learned, however, was Ulquiorra's philosophical beliefs, the essence of his character. I am going to quote myself just because I would be restating the same argument again"

Quote wasn't working (damn windows vista!!) anyways who cars about the Exequias?? They ran before and now they show up and thats supposed to be important to the storyline? NO!! Ulquiorra's beliefs? Oh please you could already tell what his character was and how he would respond to Inoue? Don't sit there and try to pretend that the chapter gave you some big grand epiphany about his character that you never knew before. Then we already knew WHY Ichigo is fighting him anyways no big development there. You knew the Renji and Rukia were going to be healed if you remembered chapter 315 before the gaiden and knew the captains who showed up right before the gaiden started. That's nothing new just the fact that people didn't remember what happened in the story and didn't think....hmmmm captains show up and battles are done hmmmmmm Byakuya and Unohana are near Rukia and Unohana is the squad 4 captain hmmmm MAYBE they will heal her and save her life! Dont tell me you thought she was dead...of course not. Dont tell me you thought Renji was dead too...of course not. Basically all you have said is that you learned about useless enemies with no real importance in the plot then learned things that should have already been known beforehand. Now as far as emotions go we know Ichigo's already and we definitely knew Inoue's because shes always in these type of situations...Ulq's have already been shown through the arc and this was no surprise to me either. Maybe if he had a change of heart or talked about his past THEN that would be real insight but it's not...it's just his usual emo-like ranting nothin new emotion wise either because these character's emotions have been fleshed out and their reasons for fighting were known beforehand so don't go off just dismissing it as complaining when the chapter did nothing new for me. I like plot advancement and backstory which is why i actually liked gaiden...even when some of the parts might have been labeled predictable at least information was learned that you could not deduce from prior knowledge. With this chapter if you read the whole arc then read 315 and 316 then you can at the very least reason out everything without fail.

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 04:10 PM
YES!!!!! Tsukisama... I dont know if I've ever told you this but----> you're the man!!! thanks for saving my butt. and I agree with you on all of those points. We really did learn a lot in this chapter. the only reason why it doesnt seem to be all that much is because nothing in this chapter really caught anyone's eye. why?: because there was no shinigami espada battle. just rukia them fighting off Rudobon and his peeps.

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 04:32 PM
I learned the name of the leader of the Exequias: Rudobon. In fact, I learned a good deal more about the Exequias like how it is a lot larger than I originally thought. I learned that Rukia and Renji are finished healing. The most important thing I learned, however, was Ulquiorra's philosophical beliefs, the essence of his character. I am going to quote myself just because I would be restating the same argument again:

Speaking of philosophical beliefs, Ulquiorra seems to be the really creepy brain washed type of villain. He seems to be one of those villains that's always quiet but then when it comes to the fight he's a know-it-all and is his master's full on puppet. He's the kind of freaky villain that would hide in the shadows of a room and just stare at you through the night and smile menacingly at you with THE most wickedest emotions ever...:devil-mad



This chapter was not worthless. It did give real backstory to the plot. Defining Ulquiorra's character, setting up the emotional conflict before the swords are drawn, these things are the backstory for the coming fight between Ulquiorra and Ichigo. If Ichigo and Ulquiorra had just started fighting this chapter, then it would not have the emotional drama that the fight is now sure to have.

One of main points of this chapter was to underscore the philosophical beliefs of Ichigo and friends as voiced by Orihime's narration: that they are bonded to one another, that they would do anything for each other. Ichigo now won't just be fighting to secure Orihime or even to get vengence on Ulquiorra, but his battle will have a deeper meaning; he will be fighting to defend the power of the heart against Ulquiorra's views, which are empirical (perhaps even bordering on phenomenalist) in nature.

This chapter was necessary IMO for the Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra fight, as it ties up the sentiments of the protagonists from the beginning of the arc when Ichigo, Rukia, Renji, Chad, and Uryuu gathered in a circle to show their unity in rescuing Inoue to now. The only thing that I might say in defense of the people who were against this chapter is that Kubo could have delayed this chapter and done a chapter focusing on the events in fake KK Town, but I can't even say that with much sincerity, because we knew from the end of last chapter that the events happening in HM would take centerstage this chapter and that the events of fake KK Town would be put on the back burner.

A fight needs something to feed off of, and the best kind of thing to feed a fight would be emotions. Especially the emotions of more than one character in the story. Mainly because then you'll have more to work with to make the plot of the story just that much better to enjoy and see how everything will play out. SO, for this fight (Ichigo and Ulq) we have a ton of emotions. We've got-- Ichigo's feelings of hate and vengence towards Ulq and his feelings of love, friendship, and compasion towards Orihime. Ulq's "superiority" emotions that he can take on Ichigo and anything else that he finds unworthy, or better yet, "non-existent". Orihime's emotions which are usually all jammed up but now set on hope, love, and fearlessness. not to forget all of Rukia's, Renji's, Chad's, and Ishida's emotions as well. All those emotions put together into one battle makes everything just that much better for everyone else.

Also, even though Kubo could've delayed all of this and just focused on the events in FKT, it's a good thing that he didn't because now we have more things to look forward to in the upcoming chapters in Bleach. Personally, I think that something BAD will happen to the Shinigami Captains in FKT. Such as a repeat of what happened in the Gaiden Arc. I will just die if that happened because I bet that they'll be pretty uncontrollable.

hajialibaig
July 12, 2008, 04:33 PM
Okay people. Let's all calm down and look forward to the next chapter. Some people saw some good things in this week's issue, while others saw nothing. It all depends on what the person was hoping or expecting to see.

I was looking forward to see the fights, and was kinda disappointed to see nothing, but that doesn't mean it won't come. Unless if you don't have a heart-attack in this week, you won't miss anything :D

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 04:35 PM
okay fine I'll stop, but I really wasn't trying to call you out. I can just be a bitch sometimes and I really should just stop. but ya...


:lmao LMAO.... lolololol omfg!! ur so funny. "save your butt"---> haha. ur funny, seriously too bad I don't know you in real life or I would so be your friend. cuz this just how me and my frenz are all the time. get crazy over something so small and then over it in the next half hour or so. if not then 10 minutes. but ya dude. funny crud.

ok. I predict that we'll see Ichigo make his big dramatic entrance and then as soon as his GT is used we'll probably flash back to the FKT to the captains where the chapter ends with all the fraccion set loose on the everyone, or a vice changing into a hollow

Tsukisama
July 12, 2008, 04:37 PM
anyways who cars about the Exequias?? They ran before and now they show up and thats supposed to be important to the storyline? NO!!

I was listing things I learned from this chapter, and although the information about the Exequias was not the most valuable part of the chapter for me (which I noted in my post), I value the knowledge that I gained even it amounts to being trivia because it adds to my full understanding of Kubo's vision.


Ulquiorra's beliefs? Oh please you could already tell what his character was and how he would respond to Inoue? Don't sit there and try to pretend that the chapter gave you some big grand epiphany about his character that you never knew before. Then we already knew WHY Ichigo is fighting him anyways no big development there.

How did we know Ulquiorra's beliefs before this chapter? How did we know his views on the world? All that we knew was that he seemed emotionless. I knew nothing else about his character's personality, nothing about his motivations (is he seeking to become powerful like GJ, is he trying to prove himself to be the greatest/strongest similar to Nnoitora, does he think that he has achieved perfection like Szayel, etc.). So, I am not sitting here and pretending anything.

I said that this chapter added another dimension to the basis behind Ichigo fighting him, not that this chapter defined the basis. I feel that there was development here, and I thoroughly discussed by manner of thought on the matter. You may disagree if you wish. I was providing my commentary on the subject and not necessarily trying to persuade you to my interpretation.


You knew the Renji and Rukia were going to be healed if you remembered chapter 315 before the gaiden and knew the captains who showed up right before the gaiden started. That's nothing new just the fact that people didn't remember what happened in the story and didn't think....hmmmm captains show up and battles are done hmmmmmm Byakuya and Unohana are near Rukia and Unohana is the squad 4 captain hmmmm MAYBE they will heal her and save her life! Dont tell me you thought she was dead...of course not. Dont tell me you thought Renji was dead too...of course not.

How did you get me thinking that Rukia and Renji were dead from me stating that they are "finished healing"? I clearly remember chapter 315. Rukia appears in a panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315/04/) looking very alert, her only appearance in that chapter. The last time we got any significant focus on her she was seriously injured and Isane was just about to begin healing her. We see her now. We did not know from that one panel in chapter 315 that she was done being healed and ready for combat again; this fact was confirmed in this chapter with Rukia showing up once again primed for battle.

Renji does not even appear in chapter 315, but Uryuu did and Uryuu was still bound in ropes that were theorized to perhaps be part of Mayuri's regeneration technique. If Uryuu was still bound up and being healed, then it was presumed back then during the discussion of chapter 315 that Renji was probably also still regenerating as well. This chapter confrims Renji's status as being fully healed as well.


Basically all you have said is that you learned about useless enemies with no real importance in the plot then learned things that should have already been known beforehand. Now as far as emotions go we know Ichigo's already and we definitely knew Inoue's because shes always in these type of situations...Ulq's have already been shown through the arc and this was no surprise to me either. Maybe if he had a change of heart or talked about his past THEN that would be real insight but it's not...it's just his usual emo-like ranting nothin new emotion wise either because these character's emotions have been fleshed out and their reasons for fighting were known beforehand so don't go off just dismissing it as complaining when the chapter did nothing new for me. I like plot advancement and backstory which is why i actually liked gaiden...even when some of the parts might have been labeled predictable at least information was learned that you could not deduce from prior knowledge. With this chapter if you read the whole arc then read 315 and 316 then you can at the very least reason out everything without fail.

I have seen something enlightening in Ulquiorra and this chapter, and other people have as well. If you did not gain anything from the chapter, then that is fine, but that does not mean that there was nothing to be gained.

In discussion threads here at MH, you are allowed and expected to express your opinions with others in spite of the inevitability that others will disagree. What is not allowed is blatant ridicule of the ideas that you don't agree with. There is a way to argue against someone else's statements without being condescending and rude like calling someone ignorant of the events of the story or belittling the value of their views for not agreeing with you.

Such posts shall not be tolerated and may be deleted depending upon the severity of the insensitivity and the frequency of such posts being made. In the event of a deletion of a post for such insensitivity, the user shall be notified of this and it will be suggested that said user should revise his post to not be insulting.

ThaGreatOne
July 12, 2008, 05:10 PM
Okay I'm done here no hard feelings anybody?

I think the next chapter will begin the FTK battle and then place some scenes of Ichigo and Ulq. talking before they get started
[hr]

Ah and if you're so unhappy with Bleach then don't read it, it's not like somebody is making you reading that manga no matter what.

Never said i was unhappy with bleach just the was the chapter turned out. Nothing to serious about that I mean it's impossible to like every chapter isnt it? lol Really though will we see anything else from Uryuu or Kurotsuchi soon? The discovery in Szayel's lab should have some importance right?

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 05:11 PM
hmm. I'm really starting to itch in my seat here. I have this horrible feeling that Aizen will try to do hollowfication again and this time it'll be too fast to stop before anyone (Urahara, Yoruichi, Tessai) to arrive and use something (hougyoku) to stop it from doing any real damage. But I'm only saying this because of how cocky Aizen was being in the cage and saying how he didnt even need to move a finger for them to win. Unless he was talking about his espada and that they probably a major boost in power and the same goes for their fraccion.

ThaGreatOne
July 12, 2008, 05:19 PM
hmm. I'm really starting to itch in my seat here. I have this horrible feeling that Aizen will try to do hollowfication again and this time it'll be too fast to stop before anyone (Urahara, Yoruichi, Tessai) to arrive and use something (hougyoku) to stop it from doing any real damage. But I'm only saying this because of how cocky Aizen was being in the cage and saying how he didnt even need to move a finger for them to win. Unless he was talking about his espada and that they probably a major boost in power and the same goes for their fraccion.

Yea I'm sure Aizen has something planned for him to be so confident. Basically he Gin and Tousen can't do anything and he thinks they can stay there and win. Either the top three espada are levels above the rest or he found out some new way to beat the captains. He did stay in soul society for hundreds of years and managed to deceived everybody in SS before....what if somebody else betrayed soul society?

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 05:24 PM
Yea I'm sure Aizen has something planned for him to be so confident. Basically he Gin and Tousen can't do anything and he thinks they can stay there and win. Either the top three espada are levels above the rest or he found out some new way to beat the captains. He did stay in soul society for hundreds of years and managed to deceived everybody in SS before....what if somebody else betrayed soul society?

oooooo..... :blink! i never thought of that. what if SS has another traitor lying right under their eyes. feeding lies to them and giving em a bunch of bull. I have a feeling that a traitor will pop up... but for now i think that the reason why the espada are there, is so that they can keep the captains/vices under control if they go through hollowfication. and the reason why they would go through hollowfication would be so that when Aizen makes the key, he'll send all of his arrancar, espada, and hollow caps/vices to the King's realm to fight off the whoever will stand in their way, such as the ROYAL GUARD.

gold349
July 12, 2008, 06:42 PM
Aizen is outrageously powerful, he also showed he had power all those many years ago. Turn the pendulum back makes me think that SS is hiding something, yup Aizen is confidant and is surly up to something and may have a traitor in midst of SS, his words the betrayal that you see is nothing to the betrayal you don't see maybe just words....some of many things he has said but who knows. Anyway this need for him to gain power and break the boundary between hollow and shinigami vice verse, he only started all this once he found out that there is a higher position than captain and that you can be promoted to "0" division as far as we know, if there is this wall that you encounter once you have attained the highest level in all fields of shinigami arts then how is a promotion possible? how are these shinigami finding that extra strength and power?, did SS plant this thing in Aizens head?, is there something similar that they do, use forbidden techniques or have there own way of blurring these boundary's?, is this problem there own monster? maybe SS is not all that innocent and clean we shall find out what made Aizen this way when his Espada are all killed and its his turn.

K-Vizard
July 12, 2008, 07:35 PM
Phew!

We got a chapter, although I recall it being said on this forum that Bleach would have a two week break.
I didn't like the chapter much, although I was relieved we got a chapter, so in that regard I can't really bash a chapter. However not everything about the chapter sucked, we did see more of the Exequias which I'm sure that everyone is interested in, or should I say curious about.#
My predictions for the upcoming chapter is Ichigo meets up with Ulquiorra and it builds up to their battle. But that all really does depend on Kubo Tites pacing of the battles at hand.

hyn_pride93
July 12, 2008, 07:40 PM
sorry for all that guys. after I finished reading chapter 316, I asked someone how long the break would be and someone told me that it was two weeks. So I went out and told everyone it was two weeks break. my bad. but at least we have a chapter now so everything should be fine.

Akihito
July 12, 2008, 11:02 PM
i liked this chapter story before a fight is always good by me. i wanted to add a couple things that a friend of mine told me.
1. Hailbel and Neliel are twins sisters, and there espada spots were 2 and 3 respectively, yea i know no evidence
2. Amoung the current espada there is no vastrolords, this one i believe mainly because the fact that neilel was the number 3 espada and was looking for vastrolords

theres a couple more but they focus on those 2 mainly so ill leave these for now, Any thoughts?

GeminiSaga
July 12, 2008, 11:16 PM
i liked this chapter story before a fight is always good by me. i wanted to add a couple things that a friend of mine told me.
1. Hailbel and Neliel are twins sisters, and there espada spots were 2 and 3 respectively, yea i know no evidence
2. Amoung the current espada there is no vastrolords, this one i believe mainly because the fact that neilel was the number 3 espada and was looking for vastrolords

theres a couple more but they focus on those 2 mainly so ill leave these for now, Any thoughts?

Well i forgot who it was that told Neliel that the current Espada are stronger and better than when she was Espada. So the time Neliel wasn't in Espada, could've been the time when the Vastrolords came into play.

Akihito
July 12, 2008, 11:38 PM
Well i forgot who it was that told Neliel that the current Espada are stronger and better than when she was Espada. So the time Neliel wasn't in Espada, could've been the time when the Vastrolords came into play.

it was nnoitra number 5 espada but he was formly number 8 so his power boost for her time was only 3 rank levels, frankly from the obvious power difference in the top 4 espada from the rest of them frankly I think if she hadn't reverted back to her child form she would have been able to beat him. also theres no evidence that the top espada were every 3 espada were ever replace, aside from neliel, frankly i like to think there the couterparts to the soul society captains who have neer been replaced...time will tell i guess

genkizen
July 12, 2008, 11:45 PM
Well i forgot who it was that told Neliel that the current Espada are stronger and better than when she was Espada. So the time Neliel wasn't in Espada, could've been the time when the Vastrolords came into play.

It was Noitra when they were fighting, although based on the way that fight played out (she was inflicting quite a bit of damage on Noitra) the improvement in the ranks might not be as drastic as he is implying.


i liked this chapter story before a fight is always good by me. i wanted to add a couple things that a friend of mine told me.
1. Hailbel and Neliel are twins sisters, and there espada spots were 2 and 3 respectively, yea i know no evidence
2. Amoung the current espada there is no vastrolords, this one i believe mainly because the fact that neilel was the number 3 espada and was looking for vastrolords

theres a couple more but they focus on those 2 mainly so ill leave these for now, Any thoughts?

With respect to number 2, I'm torn between two possibilities:
-there are no vostrolords in the espada
-Vastrolords start with Ulquiora and up

The only piece of evidence for No.4 and up being Vastrolord is the silhouette of the vastrolord when Hitsugaya explained the hollow power rankings.

This chapter was pretty good. The only thing that disappointed me (and this is purely based on my subjective view) was the whole "our hearts as one" convo. This is due to my bleeding heart and fascination with Orihime's unrequited love for Ichigo. One of the spoilers had misinterpreted it as Orihime saying Ichigo was in her heart and I went "EEEEEEEEEE!!!" finally some more focus on that subject, which hasn't been brought up since she revealed it. It's been so long i'm starting to think Kubo forgot the whole thing and she doesn't feel that way anymore (girls do that :blink). But no, it was Orihime talking about the depth and dynamic of the mutual relationship between all of them. So I guess that was more the spoilers fault...

In regards to future chapters, I will be PISSED if we focus on the Ichigo fight, cut back to the KK town fight and its already over. Only seeing the aftermath like when Hitsugaya fought Aizen during the SS arc.



I know that many of you are guys and discussing feelings may not seem that interesting to you

I mostly blame american cultural society :notrust

drakend
July 13, 2008, 01:55 AM
Yea I'm sure Aizen has something planned for him to be so confident. Basically he Gin and Tousen can't do anything and he thinks they can stay there and win. Either the top three espada are levels above the rest or he found out some new way to beat the captains. He did stay in soul society for hundreds of years and managed to deceived everybody in SS before....what if somebody else betrayed soul society?
New way? What new way? The ENTIRE Gotei 13 is under Aizen's hypnosis so he can make them believing whatever he likes. For example he can make Hitsugaya believing he's having some quality time with Matsumoto while Halibel is cutting him in half!!! :D

hyn_pride93
July 13, 2008, 03:40 AM
okay darkend... That's just wrong and u know it. :lmao lmao

But I don't think that Aizen is gonna use his zanpaktou to it's full extent mainly because I'm really hooked on the possibility that he'll end up making another hollowification scene and by doing that calling out Urahara. He is fully aware of what Urahara, Tessai, and Yoruichi know about that dreadful night. So why not use that same thing again to try and fool The three of them into thinking that they can prevent it before the shinigami in FKT fall prey to hollowfication.

The reason why I think he's calling out them is so that he can trap them up all together in another dimension or so long enough to escape away and make a run for it to the real KT. But just when you least expected it, here comes the INCREDIBLE VIZARDS with their sweet passion and long awaited vengance against those who took them away from home and changed their fate forever

ThaGreatOne
July 13, 2008, 03:50 AM
Honestly I Aizen will do as he says and not lift a finger. I mean just throughout the series he's seems more like he makes his plans just to toy around with his enemies for sheer enjoyment. I mean with the whole squadron under his hyponosis he could have done much worse after his betrayal. Even with the gaiden series after he was spotted by Urahara and stopped that Kido he just left to continue his plan. It just seems like all of his plans rely on him doing the least and still gain the most enjoyment out of manipulating people. He must have something else up his sleeve...well until the Viazard show up anyways but there role is yet to be seen as well

Yabe
July 13, 2008, 04:22 AM
But well, since the main character can't die, Ichigo saving Inoue isn't really nice to watch, considering the outcome is kinda one-sided. I'd liked the story more if Ishida was made to be the one who actually "loves" Inoue, and is the "Knight in shining armor" here coming to rescue her. And perhaps die in the process, it might made the story better =/

I don't know about that love plot. It's not what I expect to read about in Bleach from the start. Ishida didn't appear in this chapter though Kubo did count him in his title "Six Hearts Will Beat As One", so maybe he has got some plan on himself - in that case, what you mentioned about his feeling towards Inoue makes me think about the possibility of his sneaking in to fight Ulquiorra side by side with Ichigo. If Kubo plans to use someone's sacrifice in order to have Ichigo win over Ulq., then why not choosing Ishida: the last young Quincy and one of his dear friend.

(Though in the end it might turn out that Ishida could survive in some way - since Kubo might not want to kill his main characters - but him falling down dramatically like when Renji got beaten by Byakuya to fool Ichigo would be more than enough.)

However, I do hope that it's not true and Kubo will come out with unexpected things more satisfying than what've been predicted so far though.

xPm
July 13, 2008, 05:25 AM
You can't die when inoue is near, anyway.

Tanma
July 13, 2008, 05:56 AM
Aizen may think the Vizards will fight for him... or he have a Vastolorde prepared already.

Alexis
July 13, 2008, 06:06 AM
i liked this chapter story before a fight is always good by me. i wanted to add a couple things that a friend of mine told me.
1. Hailbel and Neliel are twins sisters, and there espada spots were 2 and 3 respectively, yea i know no evidence
Hollows don't have any family though, remember? That was the first thing Ichigo asked Nell when she claimed that the other ones were her brothers.


2. Amoung the current espada there is no vastrolords, this one i believe mainly because the fact that neilel was the number 3 espada and was looking for vastrolords
That was quite a few years ago though. Nnoitra told Nell that things had changed a lot since back when she was part of the Espada, and that her number doesn't mean the same thing it did back then. In other words, her old number 3 isn't as strong as todays number 3.

I think the top three Espada are Vast Lord's since Aizen said that they would take care of all the SS Captains present without Aizen and co. lifting a finger. Including Yama-ji.

Akihito
July 13, 2008, 10:03 AM
well as far as hollows having family im not sure of that but they could have something similar to the royal houses of soul society. Nel lost her memories so her knowledge when she said that is suspect, personally i think this would be cool. Hell the fact that the vastrolords seperated themselves from the espada seems to me like they act in the same elitest way byukuya acts,

Yabe
July 13, 2008, 11:43 AM
You can't die when inoue is near, anyway.

I'd say highly probably if there's no one to prevent her from doing it.

Tsukisama
July 13, 2008, 12:07 PM
I'd say highly probably if there's no one to prevent her from doing it.

This is actually a very grey area of the manga. We have seen Orihime restore people who have been mortally injured (and likely dead when she used her powers on them). Examples include the shinigami escorts Ulquiorra killed to capture her and the two female arrancar that GJ attacked that were tormenting Orihime.

We have not been given some sort of time limit on her power. Her power has been defined as the ability to reverse that which has happened; so, it could be that at the full extent of her powers she could reverse any event no matter how old. Kubo really needs to put some more restrictions on her abilities, because as she is now she is the ultimate deus ex machina.

hossice
July 13, 2008, 02:29 PM
since grimmjow is not dead he might show up and help ichigo fight ulquiorra. zaraki might stop him but he says he wants to help ichigo and then he arrives at the last min. to save his life and they fight ulquiorra to the death and gj might die in the process. if not then idk what will happen to him after wards.

gold349
July 13, 2008, 05:21 PM
since grimmjow is not dead he might show up and help ichigo fight ulquiorra. zaraki might stop him but he says he wants to help ichigo and then he arrives at the last min. to save his life and they fight ulquiorra to the death and gj might die in the process. if not then idk what will happen to him after wards.


I can not say if Ichigo will be helped by any espada/arrancar, one day when they leave HM something has got to give. I mean people like Nell and her 2 fraccion and if people like GJ are still alive after all this then once Aizen is defeated and killed they can take care of HM them selves, maybe Unohona curing the privaron espada is a step towards that way of thinking.

DRAGON-PEIN-SAMA
July 13, 2008, 06:01 PM
since grimmjow is not dead he might show up and help ichigo fight ulquiorra. zaraki might stop him but he says he wants to help ichigo and then he arrives at the last min. to save his life and they fight ulquiorra to the death and gj might die in the process. if not then idk what will happen to him after wards.

Isnt grimmjow dead?? Though he was killed by Noitora.

Darth Executor
July 13, 2008, 06:35 PM
Isnt grimmjow dead?? Though he was killed by Noitora.

Last I saw him Ichigo stopped Nnoitara from killing him.

DRAGON-PEIN-SAMA
July 13, 2008, 07:13 PM
Last I saw him Ichigo stopped Nnoitara from killing him.

Still i dont think he'll be much help for Ichigo since he lost to him.

Shiro-kun
July 13, 2008, 09:27 PM
Grimmjow is still quite useful, and besides Ichigo and Him fought a pretty even battle and help sealed Ulq. for quite a while,so i dont see why wont he be of any use

genkizen
July 13, 2008, 09:39 PM
Grimmjow is still quite useful, and besides Ichigo and Him fought a pretty even battle and help sealed Ulq. for quite a while,so i dont see why wont he be of any use

I think he was referring to Grimmy being helpful in the immediate future (UlqxIchigo fight), he's at the very best still laying in the sand half dead.

Shiro-kun
July 13, 2008, 10:01 PM
I think he was referring to Grimmy being helpful in the immediate future (UlqxIchigo fight), he's at the very best still laying in the sand half dead.

I nearly forgotten about the fact no one healed or gave a damn about him besides Ichigo for a moment

He was just forgotten after Nnoitoria appeared,so since he just down there in the sand the chances of him interfering in the UlqvsIchigo battle are pretty low unless(you have a higher chance of the captains interfering) , Unohana or her subordinates comes to help him (which is also pretty low) and/or Orihime leaves during the fight to help him out .......

dreamzsai
July 13, 2008, 10:18 PM
Perhaps Grimmjaw will pop out in the Ichigo vs Ulquiora fight when Ichigo is losing, and saves him by Caja Negacioning Ulquiora (again) lol!

Akihito
July 13, 2008, 10:26 PM
i hope that someone interferes in the fight mainly because it will solidify the fact that Kenpachi is stronger. Zaraki took down the number 5 ichigo could barely handle the number 6 so should be interesting either way. Unohona for the win btw

bittman
July 14, 2008, 12:33 AM
i hope that someone interferes in the fight mainly because it will solidify the fact that Kenpachi is stronger. Zaraki took down the number 5 ichigo could barely handle the number 6 so should be interesting either way. Unohona for the win btw

Yeah, we wouldn't want Ichigo being worthy of that main character title would we?

Now the Ulq fight:
1) Kenpachi can get *insertsomelanguagehere* right about now. Besides, no-one is there healing him at the moment (since Orihime got kidnapped by Stark).
2) Grimmjow can get *insertsomelanguagehere* also for the same reasons above PLUS the fact that he is kind of on Uliquorra's side. I'd imagine his honour as an Espada precedes his honour of helping someone that just kicked the crap out of him.
3) Everyone else can get *insertsomelanguagehere* also. Ichigo is the main character, he doesn't need no 2 chapter a year characters to come help him. Though there are lots of other allies around, they should have other things to do such as finding a way out of the Hollow's home world (kind of a priority...).

On the other hand:
1) Ishida: just did a Sanji (one piece) and vanished while everyone fights. He must be plotting something (like taking Orihime's boobies love for himself)
2) Yammy: Can that guy turn up already? Even better, can that guy turn up in Soul Society? And then get beaten by Vizards who also decide to invade Soul Society. PLOT PREDICTION!
3) Inoue: BETTER DO SOMETHING! She's not a character with killing intent, but somehow I feel she can muster something against Uliquorra considering the interaction they've had. If anything, Ichigo not fighting alone would be a nice change. As for her "limitless powers" -> They probably don't work if she's dead....

eddy26
July 14, 2008, 01:15 AM
The one thing I hate about Ichigo is that he is always in bankai mode. It doesn't really leave much room for improvement other than his hollow side taking over. I mean learn a new move don't always depend on your hollow and GT. I'm starting to think that the Exequias are Ulquiorra's fraccion not Szayel. That is why Ulquiorra was surprised that Ichigo got to the tower so quickly maybe he thought the Exequias were going to keep him busy. Why did the Exequias grow some nuts and try to stop Ichigo. They fled from Unohana and she is a captain so why attack Ichigo who is captain level strength the only reason I see is that Ulquiorra forced them to.
I could see this next chapter cut between two fights Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra for most of the chapter but at the end switch to Rukia, Chad, Renji vs. Exequias. With Kubo having to come up with so many different releases and bankai's for the fake karakura battle it will be easier for him to start of with Ulquiorra's release only. I don't think the captains in Hueco Mundo will fight anymore Unohana is probably off trying to heal them all Byakuya and Kenpachi are badly injured and I don't think Unohana's vice captain would be able to heal Byakuya by herself.
Grimmjow's dead he is pretty much useless and he will probably revert back to a gillian because he can't even move. Ichigo has no love for Grimmjow if he did why didn't he tell Orihime to heal Grimmjow. He just told her to go heal Nel that's it. Kenpachi won't show him any compassion so really there is nobody in his area to do anything for him. Nel isn't going to be any help to Ichigo when Orihime healed her she was still a kid so she won't be any help. The only person who can help Ichigo is Orihime. She could get the will to fight if she sees Ichigo getting massacred by a released Ulquiorra. She can shoot Tsubaki since Ulquiorra doesn't consider Orihime any kind of threat it'll catch him off guard.

redcometfm
July 14, 2008, 02:26 AM
Ive got it!! Yammi is only being used for his soul-sucking ability to form the Ouken! That's the only reason I could imagine Aizen would put such a weak arrancar in the Espada. Imagine if he did in fact go to SS like bittman said and decide to suck up all the weaker enemy's souls so no one powerful enough is there to stop him. Its the only possible reason he hasn't shown up in the manga up to this point.
Thoughts?

Starzen
July 14, 2008, 04:46 AM
any hollow can do that with out much trouble, kubo simply does not know how to kill him off.

basterd
July 14, 2008, 05:20 AM
The one thing I hate about Ichigo is that he is always in bankai mode. It doesn't really leave much room for improvement other than his hollow side taking over. I mean learn a new move don't always depend on your hollow and GT. I'm starting to think that the Exequias are Ulquiorra's fraccion not Szayel. That is why Ulquiorra was surprised that Ichigo got to the tower so quickly maybe he thought the Exequias were going to keep him busy. Why did the Exequias grow some nuts and try to stop Ichigo. They fled from Unohana and she is a captain so why attack Ichigo who is captain level strength the only reason I see is that Ulquiorra forced them to.
I could see this next chapter cut between two fights Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra for most of the chapter but at the end switch to Rukia, Chad, Renji vs. Exequias. With Kubo having to come up with so many different releases and bankai's for the fake karakura battle it will be easier for him to start of with Ulquiorra's release only. I don't think the captains in Hueco Mundo will fight anymore Unohana is probably off trying to heal them all Byakuya and Kenpachi are badly injured and I don't think Unohana's vice captain would be able to heal Byakuya by herself.
Grimmjow's dead he is pretty much useless and he will probably revert back to a gillian because he can't even move. Ichigo has no love for Grimmjow if he did why didn't he tell Orihime to heal Grimmjow. He just told her to go heal Nel that's it. Kenpachi won't show him any compassion so really there is nobody in his area to do anything for him. Nel isn't going to be any help to Ichigo when Orihime healed her she was still a kid so she won't be any help. The only person who can help Ichigo is Orihime. She could get the will to fight if she sees Ichigo getting massacred by a released Ulquiorra. She can shoot Tsubaki since Ulquiorra doesn't consider Orihime any kind of threat it'll catch him off guard.

I really like theese predictions.
Totaly agree with how few next chapters will evolve. Ich-Ulq fight and Friends-Exequias, back and forth. Some glims on FKT, but not that much. As for the reason Kubo can have time to work on all releases.

There is no-one to help Ichigo. Grimmjow is practically dead and no-one will heal him. Only one that would (with a slightest chance) do that is Orihime, and she's to far away and will never let her eyes of Ichigo during the fight.
All captains are busy with healing, and will probably try to get back to FKK asap. Nel have taken to much damage and no-one would heal here accept Orihime, cause of the distance. Only one that would try to help Nel is Unohana if (by a slightest chance) Kenpachi saw Nel fight Noi, and by that reason make Unohana heal her.

Tough I disagree with you on one point; Orihime helping out Ichigo. That will never happen. She can't control Tsubaki, and he to weak for an Espada anyway.

Exequias to be Ulq's fraccion seems likely to be true and not. If they are, he could have only used "telepathy" to make them stop Ichigo. We don't know anything about the "connection ability" between Espada and their fraccion.

zzlow
July 14, 2008, 08:31 AM
I and several my friends independently came to conclusion ch. 317 isn't KT drawing...
Is it really possible?

patedecarne
July 14, 2008, 08:47 AM
I don't think is another person: when we look carefully, we can see how similar are the drawings, and I don't thnk his editors would allow such thing: Another person would ruin his credibility as a writer, and the last thing now Kubo wants is destroy his career;

But why do you think this? Have you noticed something different?

winterwyrm
July 14, 2008, 09:02 AM
I also wonder if ichigo's other friends will help, the fighting chick and the poser guy, after all, they went with urahara to train, who knows?

zzlow
July 14, 2008, 09:47 AM
But why do you think this? Have you noticed something different?

When I saw spoiler (ch 317 cover) it was first thing I think of.
Today I've talk with a friend about 317th - his first words was something "I don't sure if KT draw this" and I've remembered what I think when I saw 317 cover. So I decided to ask here if someone else feel the same.
I think 317th drawn better than others. Looks like style a bit changed, just a bit.

sry, english is not my primary.

Smudj
July 14, 2008, 09:56 AM
Tough I disagree with you on one point; Orihime helping out Ichigo. That will never happen. She can't control Tsubaki, and he to weak for an Espada anyway.


Tsubaki's not the problem. He can basically cut throught anything by rejecting things around his barrier. The problem is Orihime, she has no killing intent, so Tsubaki's practically useless in her hands. But if she had the killing intent of let's say, Kenpachi , her attack would be a real threat even for Ulquiorra.

drakend
July 14, 2008, 03:11 PM
Tsubaki's not the problem. He can basically cut throught anything by rejecting things around his barrier. The problem is Orihime, she has no killing intent, so Tsubaki's practically useless in her hands. But if she had the killing intent of let's say, Kenpachi , her attack would be a real threat even for Ulquiorra.
Yeah now Orihime is stronger than Aizen... :rolleyes:

Darth Executor
July 14, 2008, 04:03 PM
Ive got it!! Yammi is only being used for his soul-sucking ability to form the Ouken! That's the only reason I could imagine Aizen would put such a weak arrancar in the Espada. Imagine if he did in fact go to SS like bittman said and decide to suck up all the weaker enemy's souls so no one powerful enough is there to stop him. Its the only possible reason he hasn't shown up in the manga up to this point.
Thoughts?

I think he's Ishida fodder.

gold349
July 14, 2008, 04:51 PM
I don't know if its been mentioned, it doesn't really matter but pages 21 22 aren't they supposed to be the other way round 21 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/21) and 22 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/22).

Tsukisama
July 14, 2008, 05:09 PM
any hollow can do that with out much trouble, kubo simply does not know how to kill him off.

Actually, has that been establieshed in the manga? The only hollow/arrancar that I can recall seeing demonstrate this ability (gonzui). So far, this is the best and most logical reason I have seen to keep Yammy around at this point. He is the weakest of the espada; so, if he did not have more of a role than just fighting and dying, it would be reasonable that Kubo would have made him appear by now. (A flaw in this logic can be referenced by Zommari, who was one of the most mysterious espada for a while that died soon after he gained the spotlight, but I just don't see Kubo going this long without any hint of Yammy lacking any good reason.)


I also wonder if ichigo's other friends will help, the fighting chick and the poser guy, after all, they went with urahara to train, who knows?

I doubt that we will see much from them. Actually, was it ever shown that they were going to train with him? From these pages (A (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/240/06/) & B (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/240/07/)), it looks like Urahara just dismisses them and starts his "work," which we now know to be the preparations for the SS captains to enter HM.

It is most likely that Ichigo's friends are asleep with everyone else. They (even Tatsuki) were weak enough to be affected by Yammy's gonzui; so, I doubt that they are spiritually adept enough to overcome the sleeping spell cast by SS.


Yeah now Orihime is stronger than Aizen... :rolleyes:

Well, Orihime may have the potential to be stronger than Aizen. He admits that she has the power that encroaches on the territory of a god, while he has never made such statements about himself, but it is unlikely that she will ever reach full potential given her current attitude and how I don't think Kubo could successfully work it into the story. Even if Orihime were to reach her full potential, I still don't think that she would be to defeat Aizen or any of the major villains.


I think he's Ishida fodder.

If you are suggesting that the reason that Uryuu is missing in this chapter is because he is/will be off fighting Yammy somewhere, then I would say "yes, this is a possibility."

Please don't make one-line posts, people. These boards are for meaningful discussion, and you typically don't give full thoughts with just one sentence. State your thoughts and reasons along with it. I want to see posts with a minimum of 3 sentences, and if you can't produce such a post, then you probably aren't contributing that much to the discusssion and it is just spam.
[hr]

I don't know if its been mentioned, it doesn't really matter but pages 21 22 aren't they supposed to be the other way round 21 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/21) and 22 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/22).

Yes, it seems OneManga (or whomever was the scanlator actually) made an error.

darkband
July 14, 2008, 06:01 PM
I don't know if its been mentioned, it doesn't really matter but pages 21 22 aren't they supposed to be the other way round 21 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/21) and 22 (www.onemanga.com/Bleach/317/22).

Its supposed to be a 2 page spread, the scanlator must have just split it up. See the link here http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-317/page020.html, which shows it as it should be. Apparently sleepy fans split it and put the Ulquiorra one first since it goes right to left. Don't understand why they did it that way, but oh well.

As for next chapter I think that it will start with Ishida showing up to fight the exequias, then cut to Ichigo v. Ulq. 2

lordHokage
July 14, 2008, 07:00 PM
We have not been given some sort of time limit on her power. Her power has been defined as the ability to reverse that which has happened; so, it could be that at the full extent of her powers she could reverse any event no matter how old. Kubo really needs to put some more restrictions on her abilities, because as she is now she is the ultimate deus ex machina.


I could see Kubo-sama killing two birds with one stone in Ichigo and Orihime vs. Ulquiorra battle saga. Orihime is force to realize that her powers have limitation when she attempt to save Ichigo’s life from death, when all sudden he gain more control of his hidden powers. :D

ShaunMati1
July 14, 2008, 09:26 PM
I honestly do hope we see both scenarios in the upcoming chapters. I hope to see the fake KK town and ichigo vs ulquiorra. But im a bit confused....with ichigos hollow, he only has it controlled partially (obviously given the time limit) but if he controls it completely would that make him stronger and keep it on longer. Just something i keep trying to figure out, it will be interesting how kubo will get ichigo to control his hollow completely. Not to mention byakuya and hollow ichigo have said that ichigo cannot truly use bankai, what do they mean by that?

VeshWolfe
July 14, 2008, 10:09 PM
WARNING TEXT WALL. :eyeroll


I honestly do hope we see both scenarios in the upcoming chapters. I hope to see the fake KK town and ichigo vs ulquiorra. But im a bit confused....with ichigos hollow, he only has it controlled partially (obviously given the time limit) but if he controls it completely would that make him stronger and keep it on longer. Just something i keep trying to figure out, it will be interesting how kubo will get ichigo to control his hollow completely. Not to mention byakuya and hollow ichigo have said that ichigo cannot truly use bankai, what do they mean by that?

meaning that ichigo is a two trick pony. basicly all he could do is increase his speed, however destryoing his body in the process, and release a bankai version of his shikai attack. Now Ichigo is a three trick pony who can do both the previous and wear a mask. Thats it, no more-no less. Frankly I think there will come a time soon when everything Ichigo has just doesnt cut it and the only option is Hollow Ichigo taking over.

Now let me explain. Hollow Ichigo was NOT defeated, he conceded the fight for reason we yet know. It is most likely a reason like why he helped Zangetsu train Ichigo in the Zaraki fight. Additionally, Old Man Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are all one in the same, bc they are a part of Ichigo's soul. In the beginning Zangetsu was the dominant personality of Ichigo's power due to the fact that Ichigo had yet to train or even realize he had a hollow half. Now that his hollow powers are realized and known, Hollow Ichigo has taken over as the main personality of Ichigo's power.

Additionally Hollow Ichigo, when conceding, did so under the condition that Ichigo no longer screw up and put THEIR lives in mortal danger. If he ever did he would retake control from Ichigo, bc Ichigo would have proven he is not the right owner for THEIR respective powers. This time has passed already. When Ulq stuck his hand in Ichigo's chest he was closer to death's door that he possibly ever was. There is also a gap in events when Inoue tried to heal Ichigo. She could not heal the chest wound bc Ulq's spiritual pressure was in the wound preventing it from healing (although i think it may have been Hollow Ichigo doing this). We cut to Grimmjow with Inoue looking at him as he says something (sorry things happened a bit fast here) and then bam, Ichigo is up and "ready to go." I think Ichigo made a last minute deal with his hollow side. That if his hollow side gave him just a little more time to save Inoue and his friends and helped him do so to a degree, he wouldnt care what happens to himself (this is Ichigo's mind set that we have seen time and time again). I also cite the fact that during Ichigo's fight with Grimmjow, at certain parts with comments he makes, it sounds more like Hollow Ichigo talking, despite is "being" Ichigo, than Ichigo himself. I think Ichigo's timer is running out and at somepoint during the up coming fight with Ulq, either Hollow Ichigo will go "Ooops, times up." or Ichigo will black out and Hollow Ichigo will take control.....probably leading into a fight between Hollow Ichigo and Zaraki, but I only say this bc he is the only one would may be able to stand up agianst him.

===================

Now for my prediction of Ulq's release. When we first see Ulq, he takes out his own eye, crushes it, and spreads it in the "wind" so all the Espada can see what he discovered in the Human World. Now again he references his eyes and whatever they dont see not being real. I will also add in that his guard on his zanpaktu resembles an eye. I am predicting that his release will involve something along the lines he stated, that if his eyes do not see something, therefore it doesnt exist.

Akihito
July 14, 2008, 10:18 PM
Yeah, we wouldn't want Ichigo being worthy of that main character title would we?

Now the Ulq fight:
1) Kenpachi can get *insertsomelanguagehere* right about now. Besides, no-one is there healing him at the moment (since Orihime got kidnapped by Stark).
2) Grimmjow can get *insertsomelanguagehere* also for the same reasons above PLUS the fact that he is kind of on Uliquorra's side. I'd imagine his honour as an Espada precedes his honour of helping someone that just kicked the crap out of him.
3) Everyone else can get *insertsomelanguagehere* also. Ichigo is the main character, he doesn't need no 2 chapter a year characters to come help him. Though there are lots of other allies around, they should have other things to do such as finding a way out of the Hollow's home world (kind of a priority...).


Hmm lets see ichigo is by far not the strongest character in the manga, every fight he's been in has resulted in either a loss or him barely winning. Vs grandfisher, ikkaku, renji, kenpachi, byukuya,etc frankly if he beats ulq with out some explained reason i.e. now moves or anything than it ruins the manga. i dont whant any dbz like power boost. And yes i remember what ulq said about ichigo reistu fluctuating and being higher than his at times but regardless we have yet to see what ulq capable of.hes had plenty of time to come up with defenses for ichigos one technique
Frankly unohona should of had plenty of time to heal everyone considering she only had to heal the ex-espada and chad so kenpachi the only on not healed. So the current people who would be capable of interfering in a espada fight would be all 4 soul society captains and i hope they do..btw the 2 chapter a year characters as you put it are better than ichigo

ThaGreatOne
July 15, 2008, 02:36 AM
I could see Kubo-sama killing two birds with one stone in Ichigo and Orihime vs. Ulquiorra battle saga. Orihime is force to realize that her powers have limitation when she attempt to save Ichigo’s life from death, when all sudden he gain more control of his hidden powers. :D


Well hopefully Kubo will put limits on her power because when he tried to describe it through Aizen's analysis he answered one question (how her powers actually work) but opened a floodgate of possibilities.

For example her powers are described as the power to "reject" or reverse the effects done to someone by reversing the time so if one wanted to go to the extreme could she reverse a powerup? Could she reverse learning bankai? Shikai? reverse a transformation? Sure it sounds ridiculous but by just saying she can reverse time pretty much means anything that happens with time (which is everything in the series) could be reversed. So we definitely need a clearer definition on the extent of her power

Kshunsui
July 15, 2008, 03:12 AM
What about a inner hollow upgrade to a vastolord level? some guy said that was nell mask but eye holes and horns were different, Ichigo inner hollow is stronger, even byakuya can't handle when they fought in SS, and Ulquiorra said ichigos hollow power exceded even his powers in that one episode when Yami and Ulquiorra appeared in Karakura Town, he cand handle his power yet, also his mask patterns have suffer changes, maybe is the inner hollow becoming stronger
http://i15.tinypic.com/521lemp.jpg

Grimjaww
July 15, 2008, 03:18 AM
Well hopefully Kubo will put limits on her power because when he tried to describe it through Aizen's analysis he answered one question (how her powers actually work) but opened a floodgate of possibilities.

For example her powers are described as the power to "reject" or reverse the effects done to someone by reversing the time so if one wanted to go to the extreme could she reverse a powerup? Could she reverse learning bankai? Shikai? reverse a transformation? Sure it sounds ridiculous but by just saying she can reverse time pretty much means anything that happens with time (which is everything in the series) could be reversed. So we definitely need a clearer definition on the extent of her power


Well she can bring people back from the dead, unless ichigo wasn't full dead.............
[hr]

What about a inner hollow upgrade to a vastolord level? some guy said that was nell mask but eye holes and horns were different, Ichigo inner hollow is stronger, even byakuya can't handle when they fought in SS, and Ulquiorra said ichigos hollow power exceded even his powers in that one episode when Yami and Ulquiorra appeared in Karakura Town, he cand handle his power yet, also his mask patterns have suffer changes, maybe is the inner hollow becoming stronger http://i15.tinypic.com/521lemp.jpg

That's some good notice to details. I also noticed it, but brushed it aside in the anime thinking it was some dumb artist, there might be more to this than meets the eye : P

ThaGreatOne
July 15, 2008, 04:41 AM
WARNING TEXT WALL. :eyeroll



meaning that ichigo is a two trick pony. basicly all he could do is increase his speed, however destryoing his body in the process, and release a bankai version of his shikai attack. Now Ichigo is a three trick pony who can do both the previous and wear a mask. Thats it, no more-no less. Frankly I think there will come a time soon when everything Ichigo has just doesnt cut it and the only option is Hollow Ichigo taking over.

Now let me explain. Hollow Ichigo was NOT defeated, he conceded the fight for reason we yet know. It is most likely a reason like why he helped Zangetsu train Ichigo in the Zaraki fight. Additionally, Old Man Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are all one in the same, bc they are a part of Ichigo's soul. In the beginning Zangetsu was the dominant personality of Ichigo's power due to the fact that Ichigo had yet to train or even realize he had a hollow half. Now that his hollow powers are realized and known, Hollow Ichigo has taken over as the main personality of Ichigo's power.

Additionally Hollow Ichigo, when conceding, did so under the condition that Ichigo no longer screw up and put THEIR lives in mortal danger. If he ever did he would retake control from Ichigo, bc Ichigo would have proven he is not the right owner for THEIR respective powers. This time has passed already. When Ulq stuck his hand in Ichigo's chest he was closer to death's door that he possibly ever was. There is also a gap in events when Inoue tried to heal Ichigo. She could not heal the chest wound bc Ulq's spiritual pressure was in the wound preventing it from healing (although i think it may have been Hollow Ichigo doing this). We cut to Grimmjow with Inoue looking at him as he says something (sorry things happened a bit fast here) and then bam, Ichigo is up and "ready to go." I think Ichigo made a last minute deal with his hollow side. That if his hollow side gave him just a little more time to save Inoue and his friends and helped him do so to a degree, he wouldnt care what happens to himself (this is Ichigo's mind set that we have seen time and time again). I also cite the fact that during Ichigo's fight with Grimmjow, at certain parts with comments he makes, it sounds more like Hollow Ichigo talking, despite is "being" Ichigo, than Ichigo himself. I think Ichigo's timer is running out and at somepoint during the up coming fight with Ulq, either Hollow Ichigo will go "Ooops, times up." or Ichigo will black out and Hollow Ichigo will take control.....probably leading into a fight between Hollow Ichigo and Zaraki, but I only say this bc he is the only one would may be able to stand up agianst him.

===================

Now for my prediction of Ulq's release. When we first see Ulq, he takes out his own eye, crushes it, and spreads it in the "wind" so all the Espada can see what he discovered in the Human World. Now again he references his eyes and whatever they dont see not being real. I will also add in that his guard on his zanpaktu resembles an eye. I am predicting that his release will involve something along the lines he stated, that if his eyes do not see something, therefore it doesnt exist.


I'm glad you brought this up. In reference to your point about Ichigo's abilities not being enough I think that time passed with his last battle with Grimmjow. Yes he won but barely and Ulq. is two ranks above that already. I think his "title character's luck" has run out but at the same time i can't say it's his fault...i mean he had to take the shortcut method to learn the bankai in three days so he didn't have years to train on how to control it. I see this battle forcing Ichigo to allow the hollow to take over and then winning (with or without help but at least surviving) then the hollow form might try to harm the allies and then Ichigo will try to fight it and then his feelings and Inoue's feelings will help him breakthrough and achieve some measure of real control on the hollow. Not that I want this to happen in this manner but i think just because of the situation that they don't have much time to beat Ulq and then try to help out the captains at FKK that maybe some advancement in Ichigo's abilities should come from this battle (I mean even Naruto had to learn how to do more than kage bushin lol). Honestly Ichigo gaining some kind of advancement or control of his bankai/hollow/viazard is the only way he could survive Ulq or the 1-3 espada/Aizen Gin and Tousen if he was to somehow get over there in time.

lordHokage
July 15, 2008, 06:41 AM
Well hopefully Kubo will put limits on her power because when he tried to describe it through Aizen's analysis he answered one question (how her powers actually work) but opened a floodgate of possibilities.

For example her powers are described as the power to "reject" or reverse the effects done to someone by reversing the time so if one wanted to go to the extreme could she reverse a powerup? Could she reverse learning bankai? Shikai? reverse a transformation? Sure it sounds ridiculous but by just saying she can reverse time pretty much means anything that happens with time (which is everything in the series) could be reversed. So we definitely need a clearer definition on the extent of her power


Aizen doesn't know Orihime’s powers and everyone has power limits including Orihime but unfortunately she doesn't know it yet but she will. :D

drakend
July 15, 2008, 07:34 AM
The last messages threw a crazy idea in my mind: what if the Ichigo we're watching in these chapters is Shirosaki pretending to be Ichigo?!? :D
Perhaps in the inner world they made a deal consisting in Shirosaki saving Inoue and friends, pretending to be Ichigo (=a lot weaker as well), and then Ichigo would agree in becoming Shirosaki's horse.
If that's true I will laugh hard because:
1) I got totally fooled by Kubo until now.
2) Shirosaki put lots of efforts in appearing weaker against Grimmjaw.
3) Ulquiorra is going to be destroyed in a bam.
4) We would remain "....." for a week at least! :D

Tsukisama
July 15, 2008, 07:55 AM
The last messages threw a crazy idea in my mind: what if the Ichigo we're watching in these chapters is Shirosaki pretending to be Ichigo?!? :D
Perhaps in the inner world they made a deal consisting in Shirosaki saving Inoue and friends, pretending to be Ichigo (=a lot weaker as well), and then Ichigo would agree in becoming Shirosaki's horse.
If that's true I will laugh hard because:
1) I got totally fooled by Kubo until now.
2) Shirosaki put lots of efforts in appearing weaker against Grimmjaw.
3) Ulquiorra is going to be destroyed in a bam.
4) We would remain "....." for a week at least! :D

I don't think that this will be the case. Ichigo would never willing just surrender control of his body to his hollow. Shirosaki would have no reason to pretend to be Ichigo, because it just wouldn't make sense. Neither Ichigo nor Shirosaki would gain anything from such a charade.

(Although I sincerely hope that this was not a serious theory, I am treating this as such, because if it is not an actual theory of yours, then it is just spam and worthy of deletion, but I would hope you would not make such posts and thus this must be an actual theory, right? :notrust)

drakend
July 15, 2008, 08:15 AM
I don't think that this will be the case. Ichigo would never willing just surrender control of his body to his hollow. Shirosaki would have no reason to pretend to be Ichigo, because it just wouldn't make sense. Neither Ichigo nor Shirosaki would gain anything from such a charade.

(Although I sincerely hope that this was not a serious theory, I am treating this as such, because if it is not an actual theory of yours, then it is just spam and worthy of deletion, but I would hope you would not make such posts and thus this must be an actual theory, right? :notrust)
You may found a very easily explanation for Shirosaki collaborating with Ichigo: he would avoid internal resistance from Ichigo and thus being vulnerable to possible enemies.

PS I don't get the last paragraph about the seriousness of my theory. If you don't like it then it doesn't mean it has to be spam, am I wrong?

Fox666
July 15, 2008, 08:26 AM
Well hopefully Kubo will put limits on her power because when he tried to describe it through Aizen's analysis he answered one question (how her powers actually work) but opened a floodgate of possibilities.

For example her powers are described as the power to "reject" or reverse the effects done to someone by reversing the time so if one wanted to go to the extreme could she reverse a powerup? Could she reverse learning bankai? Shikai? reverse a transformation? Sure it sounds ridiculous but by just saying she can reverse time pretty much means anything that happens with time (which is everything in the series) could be reversed. So we definitely need a clearer definition on the extent of her powerAizen doesn't know Orihime’s powers and everyone has power limits including Orihime but unfortunately she doesn't know it yet but she will. :DShe said that would make the Hōgyoku cease to exist. Them it seems like she can do "anything"...

Tsukisama
July 15, 2008, 08:38 AM
You may found a very easily explanation for Shirosaki collaborating with Ichigo: he would avoid internal resistance from Ichigo and thus being vulnerable to possible enemies.

PS I don't get the last paragraph about the seriousness of my theory. If you don't like it then it doesn't mean it has to be spam, am I wrong?

I still don't think Ichigo would just willingly surrender himself over to Shirosaki just because it would be easier. That would defeat the purpose of him being the protagonist of the story. Inner conflict is a necessity for protagonists (in good stories), and Ichigo has a rather literal inner conflict. The strength that he would gain would not outweigh the loss of liberty. Ichigo will more than likely continue to persevere and grow stronger with his own power as much as possible.

It is not a question of whether I like the post or not, but whether or not you are just throwing out random ideas or not. Just posting any idea that comes into your head is not allowed. In these discussion threads, it is preferred that you post serious opinions, because making silly posts is typically viewed as done just to increase your post count, since one would know that the post is not contributing to the discussion. That is why I wanted to make sure that you were serious about your post.

munafn
July 15, 2008, 08:52 AM
hmm..ichigo really will have to surprise us.. we have seen everything he can do. he barely scratched ulq in the previous encounter and that was ulq unreleased. as much as i dont want to admit it, it seems like shirosaki might make an appearance afterall. it seems logical. And also the fact that ulq felt a reiatsu higher than his back at his first appearance in Karakura town could mean that whitey will make an appearance. But then if that happens, i feel the plot gets a little redundant with the whole "darkness in me, fight for the light" thing. I dont know..maybe kubo will completely surprise us..hopefully we will get the some good spoilers tomorrow..im looking forward to it

patedecarne
July 15, 2008, 09:53 AM
Don't worry about it, munafn, because I'm totally sure that we'll see a different Ichigo right now;

Think about that: Ulquiorra is different from every enemy Ichigo's encountered in the past, power, personality, everything is different, thus their fight cannot be just as simple as the others, Ichigo won't be just throw randoms Getsuga Tenshous on Ulquiorra, because he know it 'll be useless, and Ichigo isn't stupid, by this time, probably he knows that can't defeat Ulquiorra using what he has, and probably he has something planned on this fight, maybe a hidden power he didn't used before, but knows how to use;

that's not an impossible option, to those who've seen Saint seiya, I could provide the best example: Shun always had the Nebula Storm, but he never's used it before Aphrodite's fight, even in dangerous situations before that fight, he was just relying on the nebula chain, just like Ichigo and his Getsuga Tenshou;

Probably he didn't use it before because he was too overconfident in his first fight against Ulquiorra, and against Grimmjow, well, he was able to match Grimmjow with just the mask, but now, he knows how Ulquiorra is powerful, and this hidden power will be a must;

Of course it's just an assumption, but Tite Kubo won't mess with this fight, not with this fight, the main character won't be screwed here: he's created the best environment, and even Ichigo's friends came to help, and Kubo also knows how much the fans were expecting to see it, the base fan for this fight is way greater than the base for Noitora vs Kenpachi(which I consider Kubo's big mistake...)

munafn
July 15, 2008, 10:09 AM
interesting points there. I do like the thought that ichigo may have a hidden move. And i also understand ur saint seya analogy but hiding it all this time? plus it would kind of seem unfair to grim that ichi held back. reminds me of goku-vegeta ss3 thing...maybe he developed it on the way one piece style like luffy's gear 2 and 3.lol. but ur right its not impossible to have some new moves. he may have realized something along the way..Imo if there is a new move/trick up his sleeve, its probably cero cos at the moment he has reached his shinigami limit.I doubt he is going to learn kidou anytime soon but his hollow side still has a lot of untapped raw power and moves like cero.

drakend
July 15, 2008, 11:35 AM
I still don't think Ichigo would just willingly surrender himself over to Shirosaki just because it would be easier. That would defeat the purpose of him being the protagonist of the story. Inner conflict is a necessity for protagonists (in good stories), and Ichigo has a rather literal inner conflict. The strength that he would gain would not outweigh the loss of liberty. Ichigo will more than likely continue to persevere and grow stronger with his own power as much as possible.
Nothing denies the possibility of Ichigo coming back later... losing it now wouldn't compromise his role as the protagonist of the story. After all he was successful in taming an unbelievably strong hollow side so far and he defeated plenty of powerful enemies. A short period of "confusion" would be acceptable imho.



It is not a question of whether I like the post or not, but whether or not you are just throwing out random ideas or not. Just posting any idea that comes into your head is not allowed. In these discussion threads, it is preferred that you post serious opinions, because making silly posts is typically viewed as done just to increase your post count, since one would know that the post is not contributing to the discussion. That is why I wanted to make sure that you were serious about your post.
I explicitly referred to other posts to avoid repeat the same concepts: if you think about Ichigo's strange word usage and weird power outbursts during his fight against Grimmjaw then it may be plausible that the one we're seeing now is Shirosaki pretending being Ichigo in order to satisfy his agreement with Ichigo: save my friends and then my body will be yours.

darkband
July 15, 2008, 12:11 PM
I explicitly referred to other posts to avoid repeat the same concepts: if you think about Ichigo's strange word usage and weird power outbursts during his fight against Grimmjaw then it may be plausible that the one we're seeing now is Shirosaki pretending being Ichigo in order to satisfy his agreement with Ichigo: save my friends and then my body will be yours.

Actually, I think this is just a side of ichigo we haven't seen in a while. He has acted like this before, like in the fights before his hollow took over the first time. For example in the very first Ichigo v. Renji fight(right before soul society) he was acting like he enjoyed the fight. IMHO his word usage and demeanor are more just him getting back to his fighting instincts and how he was before he started his constant struggle with his hollow, and consequently being afraid to let loose fully.

For the upcoming fight I think he will probably show off something new as well as show improvement in what he's got. He is going to win, one way or another, but I don't think we'll see his hollow interfere, though i could be wrong.

Yabe
July 15, 2008, 12:38 PM
Well, Orihime may have the potential to be stronger than Aizen. He admits that she has the power that encroaches on the territory of a god, while he has never made such statements about himself, but it is unlikely that she will ever reach full potential given her current attitude and how I don't think Kubo could successfully work it into the story. Even if Orihime were to reach her full potential, I still don't think that she would be to defeat Aizen or any of the major villains.

I do think the moment Inoue reaching her full potential could reasonably happen in following chapters. I think while Kubo slowly revealed us the potential of Inoue's power, he concurrently did give some possibilities that she would be able to make up her mind and fight with the best shot she could get herself into. There are scenes when Hacchi warned Inoue that their similar power didn't suit for battle; which meant there must be some restriction to the power when used in fighting somehow: it might not be so powerful as her defense/healing power, however; the way Kubo made Hacchi hinted Inoue on how to fight provides some hope that the power would be considerably severe and she could reach a great enough potential of it at some stage.

Another scene was when she and Rukia went trainning at SS. It just made me think that Inoue's one character that will be ready to fight in the upcoming time. I don't want to trust Kubo fully about his taking advantages of all the clues he has left, but I think he can always make the moments when Inoue's will for fighting reaches its peak (her own peak which doesn't have to be equal to Kenpachi's) without much trouble.

Tsukisama
July 15, 2008, 01:22 PM
Nothing denies the possibility of Ichigo coming back later... losing it now wouldn't compromise his role as the protagonist of the story. After all he was successful in taming an unbelievably strong hollow side so far and he defeated plenty of powerful enemies. A short period of "confusion" would be acceptable imho.

I explicitly referred to other posts to avoid repeat the same concepts: if you think about Ichigo's strange word usage and weird power outbursts during his fight against Grimmjaw then it may be plausible that the one we're seeing now is Shirosaki pretending being Ichigo in order to satisfy his agreement with Ichigo: save my friends and then my body will be yours.

A period of confusion in which he is struggling with his hollow and the hollow was overcoming him would be okay, but I thought that you were suggesting that Ichigo would actually willing surrender control to Shirosaki. It is possible, but I would be severely disappointed in Ichigo.

Which parts of Ichigo's speech did you find anamolus? The only part I found odd and reminiscent of the hollow was here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/10/), but Ichigo goes onto protect Inoue and returns to his usual cavalier speech. What I think is possibly happening is that he might be subconsciously merging more with Shirosaki as he taps more into his vizard powers rather than him acquiescing to the hollow in a manner relatable perhaps to how Zangetsu has supposedly now merged with the hollow. I, however, am still more inclined to think that Ichigo is still in control until it is clearly shown otherwise.

Antillio
July 15, 2008, 01:30 PM
Fooor the loove of god i hope Ulq. kills Orihime in the next chapter. Then kills Rukia,Chad, Quinci and Renji. Offcourse all before Ichigo's eyes wich will make him so angry he cannot supress his inner Hollow anymore and he will actually kick ass again in fighting.

Offcourse this would be to cool and Super Amazing to happen so well just get another breathtaking boring chapter of Ichigo and his forever staying weakling friends.

Damn i miss the parts when his inner hollow took over a fight, he fought very cool, now even his mask is boring me out. He became a 1 trick pony can any1 say Getsuga Tenshouu..... and that Bankai of his should grant him Super Speed yet he never seems much faster then his enemies.

Revan46
July 15, 2008, 03:36 PM
Kubo won't kill off the five main characters...it would be a really long stretch.

gigantor21
July 15, 2008, 03:49 PM
^ Nor would I want him to do that off the top of his head, just to force some kind of drama into the story. He missed that boat years ago. If there will be deaths, they'd better be well thought out.

But I don't expect him to do that next week. It's possible, though.

ShaunMati1
July 15, 2008, 04:25 PM
Fooor the loove of god i hope Ulq. kills Orihime in the next chapter. Then kills Rukia,Chad, Quinci and Renji. Offcourse all before Ichigo's eyes wich will make him so angry he cannot supress his inner Hollow anymore and he will actually kick ass again in fighting.

Offcourse this would be to cool and Super Amazing to happen so well just get another breathtaking boring chapter of Ichigo and his forever staying weakling friends.

Damn i miss the parts when his inner hollow took over a fight, he fought very cool, now even his mask is boring me out. He became a 1 trick pony can any1 say Getsuga Tenshouu..... and that Bankai of his should grant him Super Speed yet he never seems much faster then his enemies.

Well as for those guys dieing, i hope Ishada doesnt die, hes actually one of my favorites. But orihime i wouldnt mind her dieing at all. Shes been nothin but a burden although im sure she will play a huge roll in the plot later down the line...now she just annoys me.

Now about ichigo being a one trick guy....well thats why i mentioned before that kubo should think of a way for Ichigo to learn demon magic spells like byakuya. Honestly IMO i would love to see ichigo learn stuff like rukia and byakuya, making him a more complete shinigami.

genkizen
July 15, 2008, 08:45 PM
Well as for those guys dieing, i hope Ishada doesnt die, hes actually one of my favorites. But orihime i wouldnt mind her dieing at all. Shes been nothin but a burden although im sure she will play a huge roll in the plot later down the line...now she just annoys me.

Now about ichigo being a one trick guy....well thats why i mentioned before that kubo should think of a way for Ichigo to learn demon magic spells like byakuya. Honestly IMO i would love to see ichigo learn stuff like rukia and byakuya, making him a more complete shinigami.

I don't want Orihime to die, but I do agree her character development recently has been kind of disapointing. I say that because I was expecting more from her character when this arc started, although I'm still holding on to hope.

And I COMPLETELY agree with you on Ichigo. He needs to learn some new moves, something, anything. I'd love to see him bust out a cero or even some demon arts. Although upto now it definitely seems like he just doesn't have the reiatsu control to be able to, he'll need some major training which probably means it won't happen any time soon.

The Ulquiora x Ichigo fight is an ideal opportunity for Orihime face time, I really hope this opportunity isn't squandered. But on the otherside, im excited for the fight!

ThaGreatOne
July 15, 2008, 09:00 PM
Well as for those guys dieing, i hope Ishada doesnt die, hes actually one of my favorites. But orihime i wouldnt mind her dieing at all. Shes been nothin but a burden although im sure she will play a huge roll in the plot later down the line...now she just annoys me.

Now about ichigo being a one trick guy....well thats why i mentioned before that kubo should think of a way for Ichigo to learn demon magic spells like byakuya. Honestly IMO i would love to see ichigo learn stuff like rukia and byakuya, making him a more complete shinigami.

That might be a better look for ichigo but honesty at this point in the manga only a few magic spells are even worth using in a battle and those higher level spells are something I doubt Ichigo could learn in such a short time. Plus with the pace of battle as it is now Ichigo would have to use them without the chant and since he would be a noob at it the spell would be too weak. I would hope to see something new from Ichigo. Sure Kubo has alot on his hands with Ulq's release, viazard's releases, Shishui's, Gin's, Ukitake's bankai's etc. BUT Ichigo needs something new....like I said if Naruto can learn more than Kage bushin then Ichigo can do more than Getsuga Tenshou and APPEAR to be fast (even thought Grimmjow didn't seem outclassed in speed). Either Ichigo gets something new now or he gets it after the FKT battle

genkizen
July 15, 2008, 10:01 PM
That might be a better look for ichigo but honesty at this point in the manga only a few magic spells are even worth using in a battle and those higher level spells are something I doubt Ichigo could learn in such a short time. Plus with the pace of battle as it is now Ichigo would have to use them without the chant and since he would be a noob at it the spell would be too weak. I would hope to see something new from Ichigo. Sure Kubo has alot on his hands with Ulq's release, viazard's releases, Shishui's, Gin's, Ukitake's bankai's etc. BUT Ichigo needs something new....like I said if Naruto can learn more than Kage bushin then Ichigo can do more than Getsuga Tenshou and APPEAR to be fast (even thought Grimmjow didn't seem outclassed in speed). Either Ichigo gets something new now or he gets it after the FKT battle

ALthough granted Ichigo hasn't been percieved to be anywhere near as fast as he was during the Byakuya fight, grimmy's release looked like it was supposed to be pretty damn fast as well.

And lets face it, Ichigo is almost certainly not going to be learning any demon arts. It's just not his style or character. Somone more along the lines of Ishida would learn demon arts. Although I'm still hoping he learns cero, which I think does fit into his style.

Fallen.
July 16, 2008, 12:49 AM
ALthough granted Ichigo hasn't been percieved to be anywhere near as fast as he was during the Byakuya fight, grimmy's release looked like it was supposed to be pretty damn fast as well.

And lets face it, Ichigo is almost certainly not going to be learning any demon arts. It's just not his style or character. Somone more along the lines of Ishida would learn demon arts. Although I'm still hoping he learns cero, which I think does fit into his style.

lol I'm still waiting for orihime to learn kido ,that should fit her well .

Flight-47
July 16, 2008, 01:54 AM
In my opinion, I honestly can't see a way Ichigo can win this fight at all.

When he fought Ulquiorra the first time, he used everything he had to bring Ulquiorra down, and all Ulquiorra did was use both hands and blocked the blast with a minimum amount of damage received.

Even now, if he can hold his mask longer, the most he could hope for is for Ulquiorra to draw his sword, to defeat him. If his Inner hollow interferes, the worst that could come from that is him forcing Ulquiorra to release.

Arrancar release form are '10 times more powerful', if I remember correctly what one of Grimmjow's Fraccion said. Which means, Ichigo doesn't stand a chance in the end.



It wouldn't be the first time that all logic is defeated in order for Ichigo to win though. Ichigo did beat Kenpachi, who we've seen is able to take on the 5th Espada. So, no logic there. Byakuya was superior to Ichigo in every way, obviously, yet Ichigo managed to win with his Bankai's speed boost, and his inner hollows help. He was able to beat Renji by simply releasing more reiatsu and swinging harder lol.




If Ichigo does indeed defeat Ulquiorra, I'd prefer that Ulquiorra is an Adjucas (sp?) and the top 3 Espada were Vasto Lorde. Because at Ichigo's current experience and level, him defeating an enemy whose said to be stronger than any Captain level Shinigami is just ridiculous.

Revan46
July 16, 2008, 02:24 AM
In my opinion, I honestly can't see a way Ichigo can win this fight at all.

When he fought Ulquiorra the first time, he used everything he had to bring Ulquiorra down, and all Ulquiorra did was use both hands and blocked the blast with a minimum amount of damage received.

Even now, if he can hold his mask longer, the most he could hope for is for Ulquiorra to draw his sword, to defeat him. If his Inner hollow interferes, the worst that could come from that is him forcing Ulquiorra to release.

Arrancar release form are '10 times more powerful', if I remember correctly what one of Grimmjow's Fraccion said. Which means, Ichigo doesn't stand a chance in the end.



It wouldn't be the first time that all logic is defeated in order for Ichigo to win though. Ichigo did beat Kenpachi, who we've seen is able to take on the 5th Espada. So, no logic there. Byakuya was superior to Ichigo in every way, obviously, yet Ichigo managed to win with his Bankai's speed boost, and his inner hollows help. He was able to beat Renji by simply releasing more reiatsu and swinging harder lol.




If Ichigo does indeed defeat Ulquiorra, I'd prefer that Ulquiorra is an Adjucas (sp?) and the top 3 Espada were Vasto Lorde. Because at Ichigo's current experience and level, him defeating an enemy whose said to be stronger than any Captain level Shinigami is just ridiculous.

Grimmjow had fraccions? hmm I missed that :P I think your talking about Shawlong or sometthing cuz ya Grimmjow definitely didn't have fraccions. Pretty sure the arrancar that accompanied him to the real world were just some stupid guys he bossed around, I don't think they ever called themselves his fraccions, but I could be wrong.

As per Ulquiorra being an Adjucas, my only debate is that he precisely matches the description picture of a Vasto Lorde when Hitsugaya was describing them. The horn and everything matches the picture completely. Besides the amount of power he holds is less than the top 3 but none the less extremely powerful. I really doubt he's merely an adjucas.

Flight-47
July 16, 2008, 03:11 AM
I doubt he's an adjucas too, but if Ichigo defeats him, and he is a Vasto Lorde, that'll be pathetic.
And no, the picture didn't match. Ulquiorra has a different hollow mask, which covers only one side of the face. Kubo also may have done that in order to mess with our minds. Or did it to hint to us that he is Vasto Lorde. It could be either or.


And the Arrancar that came with Grimmjow were Numerous, I just consider them Grimmjow's fraccsion since they seem to have followed his orders, and in the flashbacks they knew him as well.

Asmodan
July 16, 2008, 04:43 AM
Hmmm ....... My prediction, there will be some staring, some talking followed by shouting, followed by staring, some more talking, a shouty word, then some showing of swords............. and staring.

brebaz
July 16, 2008, 04:59 AM
Hmmm ....... My prediction, there will be some staring, some talking followed by shouting, followed by staring, some more talking, a shouty word, then some showing of swords............. and staring.

you forgot to add some Emo. moments

genkizen
July 16, 2008, 07:52 AM
Hmmm ....... My prediction, there will be some staring, some talking followed by shouting, followed by staring, some more talking, a shouty word, then some showing of swords............. and staring.

And don't forget pointing, probably with said swords. And panels of Inoue going "Gasp"


I've been excited for this fight for a while, but now I am really interested to see what happens with Inoue. I just can't see Ichigo and Ulq going at it and tearing the place asunder while Inoue just stands there watching the whole thing from 10 feet away...but I can't see her take part in the fight either. What will probably happen is Ichigo says "let's move" and they move off to some barren place, although I don't want that to happen. I want to have Inoue forced to defend herself from the ensuing calamity or atleast have some kind of interaction with them, thus hopefully forcing her character to undergo some much needed development.

vongola_x
July 16, 2008, 02:11 PM
Hmmm ....... My prediction, there will be some staring, some talking followed by shouting, followed by staring, some more talking, a shouty word, then some showing of swords............. and staring.

That reminds me of the Frieza Arc in DBZ when Goku charging up the Spirit Bomb took about 20 episodes of repeating the same lines over and over... only for the attack to miss.

Anyway...

Though we have an abridged spoiler of this week's chapter, I'm still wondering how much of it is going to allocated to Las Noches and Quasi-Karakura. We may finally get to know what Hisagi's released form is!

Gokei
July 21, 2008, 09:51 AM
And don't forget pointing, probably with said swords. And panels of Inoue going "Gasp"


I've been excited for this fight for a while, but now I am really interested to see what happens with Inoue. I just can't see Ichigo and Ulq going at it and tearing the place asunder while Inoue just stands there watching the whole thing from 10 feet away...but I can't see her take part in the fight either. What will probably happen is Ichigo says "let's move" and they move off to some barren place, although I don't want that to happen. I want to have Inoue forced to defend herself from the ensuing calamity or atleast have some kind of interaction with them, thus hopefully forcing her character to undergo some much needed development.

Orihime doesn't gasp! :shannaro She just shouts 'Kurosaki-kun!' as her eyes get progressively bigger. :wtf

On another note when do you think they'll finally be on a first name basis?

Mizu.
July 23, 2008, 03:19 PM
Did anyone else notice the Chapter of 317 was - Six Hearts Will Beat as One

so whose six hearts are they?
Ichigos
Orihime
Rukia
Renji
Chad

as they are shown in the manga
BUT WHAT ABOUT ISHIDA??!?!

moved post