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Gold Knight
July 20, 2006, 09:59 PM
Here you go, my thoughts on Chapter 316! What an interesting chapter it was, too. Again, thanks for reading and please go ahead and post any of your thoughts as well - they really do help me think of some things I didn't before. :)

Once again, just a quick reminder (since it's still a relatively new section), all of my previous reviews that I've done at MH are now being stored here! (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?board=170.0)

And since I've been asked about the possibility of doing an archive of even older commentaries that I did at Naruto Forums before I was modded ( they were done for Chapters 247 to 280 in the Discussion threads ) - I have a bit of bad news regarding the subject. It's just been confirmed to me that they NO longer exist...! Darn it. This is because my older Comments were posted in the old Konoha News Stand forum, which was deleted as part of a mod's project over there to keep people from being spoiled. This was a movement which, ironically enough, I first led along with TenshiOni! And no, I didn't back them up, and yes, in retrospect I wish I had now. Sorry about that. Still, keep in mind that they were not as detailed as the ones I've been doing at MH since Chapter 300 though, so you're not missing much anyway... they were more or less just some typical, quick reactions, with a little humor here and a little ranting there... ^^ Anyway, without further ado...


* * * Gold Knight's Ten Comments on Naruto Chapter 316: Training Commences! * * *


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7135/316nl4.gif

1. Yup, Kishimoto, We Get Your Drift. While some fans may have thought of "water" because of the whirlpool theme of Naruto's name, the cyclone-like insignia on his left bicep does indicate that Kishimoto had "wind" in mind all along for Naruto's recently revealed element. So with the design being so prominent on this week's cover, Kishimoto almost seems to be reminding the readers that this had been his plan all along. Yes, yes, we know you're clever, Kishimoto-sama. Even so, I still would have preferred to see a little more creativity put in the overall presentation of the cover... an accompanying background that was related to the element, perhaps an approaching hurricane off in the distance, wouldn't have been too bad. Ah well. Probably just trying to beat the deadline and didn't have time, but this cover is still going to be the kind that'll be easily forgotten in time (at least, compared to some of the other covers we've seen so far.)

And incidentally, just for your personal amusement, here's another hint that Kishimoto might have had wind in mind for Naruto's element since way back when... (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/786/puuuju2.jpg)

( Bonus points if you knew what was coming! )

2. Winds of War...! Pretty funny how Kishimoto must have been lurking around here on the boards to see what the fans thought, since a bunch of the questions from last week were answered this week...! One inquiry in particular was from disappointed fans who wondered aloud "why wind?" since they believed that it wouldn't be as powerful as the other basic elements. Well, hope you guys feel happier this week, 'cause Kakashi just Mangekyou'ed that assumption to pieces and completely Chidori'ed the leftovers! With his statement, we learned that in actuality wind is the strongest battle element in Naruto's world, as it possesses both the ability to blow down and cut through anything! Whoa! But hey, you know what, when you take in account that wind can change landforms, and yet is the most invisible force of the five elements, it doesn't surprise me in the least. Wind is not only a formidable weapon, it's also incredibly stealthy as well, and THAT is everything in a shinobi world.

The whole thing also seems to me kind of poetic as well, because in my mind, Naruto represents the current "wind of change" that's blowing through his continent. If he ever becomes Hokage, which will likely be his eventual accomplishment in the series, it won't be because he was able to cut through opponents with his wind jutsus, it'll be because he influenced so many people to alter their way of thinking. Always a difficult, S-Ranked task. And yes, I'm liking the idea of wind being Naruto's main weapon more than ever, obviously.

Another interesting thing is if you'll remember how the legend of the Kyuubi' powers were presented at the beginning of the series, it went something like this: "single swing of its nine tails would raise tsunamis and flatten mountains." So far, Naruto seems headed towards being able to do something of both to a certain extent.

3. Like Peas in a Pod? Alright, we haven't exactly gotten very far yet with finding out more about the history of Yamato and Kakashi's relationship with each other, but we still learned a few things here about them. Well, three things, anyway. First off, they were both remarkably similar in their reactions here to Naruto's puzzled facial expression (which was good for a chuckle or two here), so probably possessed the same kind of tense, somewhat impatient mindset when tutoring a kid like him. Two, they're apparently in a comfort zone and seem very used to working with each other, since Kakashi's quick whispering to Yamato was almost immediate.

And last but not least, they both apparently like to show off...!

We already know Kakashi likes to look cool and all in the most dire of situations, but Yamato? Looks like he doesn't even need much of a reason. Judging from his facial expression there at the end of Kakashi's suggestion, Yamato seemed more than eager to get the demonstration going. His reaction seemed to have that sense of boyish delight, "Woo-hoo! Here I go! Alright!"

Either that or he was extremely pleased that Kakashi had found a quick and easy solution to explaining the answer to Naruto, but Yamato seemed way too excited... Either way, I liked this scene, it seemed to even further humanize both Kakashi and Yamato. Boys will be boys, ya know? Yup, even grown senseis...!

4. What's next, Woodstock? And yeah, after Yamato's insane display of effortlessly pulling an 100 feet cliff out of the ground, conjuring a waterfall to burst out of the top, and then causing an instanteous growth of trees on the sides, I almost half-expected him to finish it all off by summoning a crowd of naked hippies to run around the cliff and gleefully throw flower petals in Naruto's general direction! But then again, that would REALLY be flaunting his power, wouldn't ya think?

One thing's for sure - Yamato would be an instant hit with the Greenpeace organization...!

5. The Jutsu Wheel! Ok, back to more serious matters! So with Yamato's demonstration, we got another answer to a question that was brought up last week: the origin of alternative elements such as the "wood" created by Mokuton no Jutsu.

If we're to take the senseis' explanation literally, it seems almost like chakra works somewhat similiar to a color wheel - you know, blue and red makes purple, yellow and blue makes green, and so on. (Reminds you of how Naruto described his Kyuubi chakra as red (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5272/naruto11115df4.jpg), doesn't it?) Furthermore, when one simultaneously activates two of the five basic (or "primary") elements, then a "secondary element" would be created, which in Yamato's case would be wood, and Haku's case would be ice.

All that sounds simple enough; the catch, though, is that the shinobi must possess something in his DNA for him to be able to manipulate the two elements at the same time in order to mix them... hence, a Bloodline Limit. This is supported by Haku's case, where his genetic ability allowed him to merge wind and water into ice. This might indicate that in fact the Mokuton no Jutsu is also an advanced Bloodline Limit of sorts, which doesn't surprise me considering it's such a rare ability. For some reason this ability must not been able to be passed on to Shodai's descendants (as Tsunade didn't have it) - perhaps a recessive trait?

However you want to describe it best, allow me to give props to ChuckinUpDeuces for being partially right in his prediction from last thread. Good going!

"As well, as far as Jutsu's that don't fall under a certain category of Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, or Lightening, it could be that combinations of these elements create sub-elements.

Another thought....is that the Mokuton Jutsu is a combination of a one in a million combination of Earth and Water Chakra Affinity. "

A fresh, new question, of course, would be how one could "create" a Bloodline Limit in order to be able to manipulate a secondary element, as the lesson would seem to foreshadow. My guess would be that it's not something you can "create," but rather "discover" as in finding out what your elemental strengths are and what your chakra and DNA are capable of doing, and then all that would be left would be becoming skilled at it. With Naruto's immense storage of chakra and the time advantages of the Kage Bunshin, as a result of his training, he could end up discovering an unique Bloodline Limit-type jutsu that only he can use, even before the Akatsuki hits town...! Boy, wouldn't the bad guys be in for a surprise then...

Edit: TheBolivianGuy reminded me of an Orochimaru scene where he described chakra, seals, and jutsus as "colors" (http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6560/naruto12112ax8.jpg) which would certainly seem to indirectly support my metaphor here in that Kishimoto might have been thinking about it. Thanks!

6. "Yin" and "Yang" Nature Manipulation... Say What? Alright, even though it was a partial answer that we got here, here's what I would guess from Yamato's mention of "Yin" and "Yang" nature manipulation and what that's all about.

Let's stay with the "color wheel" metaphor. If we treat the Mokuton and Hyouton as combinations of primary elements, then Shikamaru and Chouji's abilities may be better thought as mixes of complementary elements. So for example, if Water (Blue) is mixed with its opposing secondary element (Orange) formed from two of the other primary elements (Red & Yellow in this case), then it would produce a "grey" jutsu like the Kagemane no Jutsu. Would be pretty appropriate considering the appearance of shadows, too...! Considering that Yin & Yang are a concept of two complimentary opposites, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Of course, it probably goes without saying that these are Bloodline limits as well, since you practically have to have the capability to manipulate more than just two primary elements (three at least). Shikamaru may have even more potential than any of us realized (but of course, he's too lazy to really care about all that... heh!).

Another interesting note is that Yin is symbolized by water, and Yang is symbolized by fire, so that may be a hint at the elements most often used in "Yin and Yang" nature manipulation right there...

Still, gah! Kakashi's chastened Naruto twice before for being "too hasty," and yet, here he and Yamato are, trying to get the training going quickly without having to explain everything to their student. Ah well... at least we're promised an expanded explanation sometimes, possibly the next time when Shikamaru goes into action.

7. Boxing Training!? This may be one of my more obscure comments, but all fans of this boxing manga will hopefully understand what I'm talking about here. When Kakashi ordered Naruto to practice using his chakra in order to cut up a leaf, I was immediately reminded of how the main character, Ippo, in the first chapter of Hajime no Ippo, in order to become a boxer, had to train himself to catch ten falling leaves! (http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/746/ippovol01047yz7.jpg)

That, of course, made me wonder what Naruto would have been like if he had been a boxer in another life. Hmm... probably not all that different. XD

Anyway, that "Leaf" theme of Konohagakure just keeps coming back, doesn't it? First Naruto had to depend on what he remembered of Iruka's lectures of the "leaf focus" (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7650/narutov17c154009sp3.png) training in order to realize the second step of the Rasengan training, and now this! I wonder if the other villages used their own "symbol" this often in their teachings. Probably, though. In any case...

8. The Shadow Knight...! Please excuse the title, I just thought it looked cool. XD Anyway, Shikamaru is a Knight? No wonder I liked him so much. :p

But yeah, we didn't really learn anything new much here from Asuma's metaphor. We all already knew that Shikamaru was better known for his strategic genius than for his raw power, which is what Asuma was saying here with the "Knight" piece used in shogi games. The REAL interesting part came next...

9. More Foreshadowing...! Figures we'd get some more of that in Shikamaru's presence. He attracts shadows, after all.

This time, though, the possible foreshadowing is much more serious than earlier in the chapter, especially for Asuma fans...! Some have already suspected it before when Asuma went to Sandaime's grave, and it's looking like they might be right. If Naruto's possibly going to learn a Bloodline Limit-type jutsu, are we also possibly going to see Asuma go out like a "sacrifical shogi piece" in order to protect his "King?" Hopefully not! My immediate reaction was: "No way! We barely know the guy! Don't kill him now just when we were starting to learn more about him!" I mean, we JUST recently found out that he's the son of Sandaime, and aside from that, not much else. We know he likes smoking, can manipulate his chakra in order to extend the range of his weapons, and can knock down a bunch of Sound scouts in about 1.5 seconds. (I'm sure Asuma fans know a bit more, but you get what I mean.)

Unfortunately that's usually a major reason why less-known secondary characters are in the story - so they can be used to add some unexpected drama to the story... usually with their deaths. That's what happened to poor Hayate way back in the Chuunin Exams, old man Sandaime in his battle against Orochimaru, and not too long ago, Chiyo-baasma in the revival of Gaara. So yeah, I'm worried for Asuma now. Better remember him in your prayers tonight, kids!

Of course, Kishimoto may just be his usual "tricky devil" self again, trying to fool us all in thinking that's exactly what would happen. Wouldn't surprise me. Still, the foreshadowing of Chiyo's death (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6381/v29ch26215xd9.png) did indeed come true, so who knows.

The other thing that was brought up here was who Asuma considered to be the "King." He hinted that Shikamaru would figure it out when the time came, but I say it's just that "precious person" that's earned itself such a niche as an on-going theme in Naruto ever since Haku died for Zabuza. Who might this person be to Asuma? Think about what the answer was for his father (http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2282/naruto11416jn5.jpg), and that's probably your answer right there. And that's likely why he came to understand his father better, what Tsunade came to realize when she became the Godaime (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8052/chapter18414ko6.jpg), and something that Shikamaru will eventually find out as well, if he continues being a chuunin at Konohagakure. And definitely Naruto will feel the same way someday, if he doesn't already, as he comes closer to his goal of becoming Hokage.

10. Quick Work, Naruto...! Well, like Kakashi said, that sure didn't take too long for Naruto at all to finish the first step of the training. Want to place bets on how long it'll take for Naruto to complete this training with his Kage Bunshin?

I say, just a day, and probably only two more chapters. Should be relatively quicker than the Rasengan training. You've probably already voted, but in case you missed it, here's a poll where you can tell us what you think. Don't be shy, and vote early! We'll find out the answer soon enough.

RATING: 4 out of 5 stars. Like last chapter, this wasn't too involved a chapter except for the chakra lessons and the foreshadowing. In some ways I think Kishimoto might have committed something of a mistake by implying that Asuma might die just as the series was returning to more focus on secondary characters, which might upset some fans. Hopefully it's just false foreshadowing, but it does make for some interesting, grip-the-seat-of-your-chairs drama, which I guess makes Naruto anything but boring right now. All in all, I liked it for all the insights it gave us into the world of jutsu-making, which suddenly seems expanded more than ever now...

Predictions: Since the preview from last chapter totally lied to us, I'm just going to predict here that the training continues. Bah.

Credits: Thanks to Anax for the Greenpeace comment, he's the one who put that crazy idea in my head. Also, I used Yoshitsune and HisshouBurakein's translations, many thanks to both of these guys...!

Looking forward to hearing your opinions!

woush
July 20, 2006, 10:28 PM
oh my god goldy.. im your first *blushes* sweet stuff to read as always ^^

about the "king" thingy.. I think he might be talking about Konoha or maybe the King of Fire country. :smile-big :smile-big


and how long will it take naruto to learn ?? a few hours. which might take a few chapters. Akatsuki are going to attack Konoha while naruto's trainning and naruto might pop out of no where after everyone's getting beat up ^^ might be cool :O

TheBolivianGuy
July 20, 2006, 10:42 PM
great stuff as always GK, while reading the Jutsu Wheel comment i couldn't help but to remember that one time when Orochimaru explaining his goal of knowning all the jutsu by mentioning of how someone mixed to colors to create a new one. anyways keep up the good job. looking forward to the chapter.

Gold Knight
July 20, 2006, 10:49 PM
Ohhh, good memory there, BolivianGuy. Yeah, he did say that in this page. (http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6560/naruto12112ax8.jpg) Wow, I'd totally forgotten about that until you brought it up.

I'm going to add your comment to the first post and credit you, that really does support my "jutsu wheel" comment more than anything else. Thanks for that!

And Yume, I think it IS Konoha that Asuma's talking about, or its people... can't be anything else, I think, since he seemed to come to an understanding of his father, and that was what Sandaime was most concerned with protecting. Konohagakure was Sandaime's "King."

And your post felt good :p

woush
July 20, 2006, 11:00 PM
gah ! I knew u would like it :D oh and btw... is it me or Naruto didnt learn anything from his clone yet ? (unless 1, the empty tree we see is his 5th tree he detroys or something, orr..... 2, kishi messed up) since he made a lot of clones and we didnt see him fusion back yet.. meaning he didnt learn anything yet. (I doubt he did that on purpose to not let us see naruto's first reaction when he' gonna learn from all his clones)

Gold Knight
July 20, 2006, 11:12 PM
oh and btw... is it me or Naruto didnt learn anything from his clone yet ? (unless 1, the empty tree we see is his 5th tree he detroys or something, orr..... 2, kishi messed up) since he made a lot of clones and we didnt see him fusion back yet.. meaning he didnt learn anything yet. (I doubt he did that on purpose to not let us see naruto's first reaction when he' gonna learn from all his clones)


Hm, good observation; wouldn't it take the disappearance of his clones in order for him to "learn" all the things he was doing wrong or "find out" the things that seemed to be going right? Or... maybe he depended on at least one of his clones to get close to what was the best way to go about it, then he would have that clone disappear and absorb the memory of what that clone had done. I think that's what's going on.

venicia777
July 20, 2006, 11:14 PM
i am becoming more of a fan of your comments. Wonderful and valid insights. I for one thought immediately of 3 possibilites: naruto, konohagakure or maybe Kurenai when asuma said he may have to "sacrifice" himself for that important personality. apart from chiyo baa saying something like- this jutsu exchanges ones life for the other, it was meant for you- to sasori, asumas statements is a big foreshadow of what may come. i hope he doesnt die like his pops. we are just starting to know the guy better.
Anyways, him appearing in kakashis room, at sandaimes burial grounds, and in this weeks chapter really gives me the creeps.

Gold Knight
July 20, 2006, 11:19 PM
Yeah... :x

Glad you're starting to like my comments, venicia777 :D

woush
July 20, 2006, 11:29 PM
yeah asuma's been acting really weird since a few chapters -.-

Gold Knight
July 20, 2006, 11:37 PM
And to think all his fans were excited about his showing up, now they're dreading what might happen next. Ah, how quickly the tides change.

TheBolivianGuy
July 20, 2006, 11:40 PM
as for the "learning" part of the clones I personally think that all of the clones are "learning" it at almost around the same time. that's why kakashi mentions this will go unexpectedly faster. but that's just what i think. I might be wrong.

woush
July 20, 2006, 11:42 PM
yes but naruto didnt get any knowledge from other clones yet since they didnt fusion back so when he do that... it might be awesome ^^

Hermie
July 20, 2006, 11:44 PM
Your comment on Yin/Yang got me thinking about this...



The basic of Yin/Yang is opposites, so it HAS to be something about that. But in what sense?


So far I have three possibilites:




Opposites inside the chakra type
Each element could have two different type of nature. One dark, one light; one cold, one hot; etc.
For example, maybe Yamato uses a warm, nourishing type of water for his wood jutsu's, while Haku uses cold, destructive water for the ice? Or maybe, wind can be either blowing, or cutting?




Opposites between chakra types
Maybe it's the elements that's opposing? Water and fire, wind and earth?
Could be these are impossible to mix together...



Each person has a yin and yang chakra type
Maybe, just as everyone has a primary chakra type that works best for them, they all have chakra's that are especially weak for them? Then, people with that chakra type would also have an advantage over the enemy....

TheBolivianGuy
July 20, 2006, 11:56 PM
yeah exactly, and I mean i'm sure Naruto is doing the same thing as well, so when the clones are dispelled their knowledge would fill in the holes that Naruto had.

As for the Yin and Yang Thing, i think you should look at the actualy meaning of it (quick google search i did: http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~shlede/ying/yang.html ) basically after reading the definition of it, depending on how much of "Yin" or how much of "Yang" is used during the mix that would define the outcome of the jutsu. Somewhat along the lines of your first theory Hermie.

Gold Knight
July 21, 2006, 12:02 AM
Opposites between chakra types:
Maybe it's the elements that's opposing? Water and fire, wind and earth?
Could be these are impossible to mix together...

That'd be my bet, although not so simple as that - more like a mixture of an element and a sub-element although the user would not possess an extraordinary ability to manipulate the sub-element to the extent of the likes of Yamato and Haku, but enough of a control that they can add it to their best element to form an unique jutsu, like the Kagemane. I'm probably going to be totally wrong here, but let's say Shikamaru's best element is Earth. Add to that Darkness (Smoke?) as an sub-element of Fire and Water, and you have shadow manipulation, or something like it.

Maybe my complimentary theory was off base a bit, though, now that I think about it, because manipulation of more than two elements for a special jutsu seems impossible if you go by how Yamato controlled "Earth" with one hand and "Water" with the other hand.

I wonder if this is also foreshadowing the coming of an antagonist with more than two hands, though (like Kidoumaru) who can control more than just two elements simulateously, though...

TheBolivianGuy's Yin and Yang definition most likely is the closest hint to what's actually going on here, though. It could just be Fire and Water that Shikamaru's able to manipulate, using the sparks set off by the opposing energies to do totally different jutsus.

sabyr
July 21, 2006, 01:09 AM
b]1. Yup, Kishimoto, We Get Your Drift.[/b] While some fans may have thought of "water" because of the whirlpool theme of Naruto's name, the cyclone-like insignia on his left bicep does indicate that Kishimoto had "wind" in mind all along for Naruto's recently revealed element. So with the design being so prominent on this week's cover, Kishimoto almost seems to be reminding the readers that this had been his plan all along. Yes, yes, we know you're clever, Kishimoto-sama. Even so, I still would have preferred to see a little more creativity put in the overall presentation of the cover... an accompanying background that was related to the element, perhaps an approaching hurricane off in the distance, wouldn't have been too bad. Ah well. Probably just trying to beat the deadline and didn't have time, but this cover is still going to be the kind that'll be easily forgotten in time (at least, compared to some of the other covers we've seen so far.)

And incidentally, just for your personal amusement, here's another hint that Kishimoto might have had wind in mind for Naruto's element since way back when... (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/786/puuuju2.jpg)


Yeah, I'm thinking his second chakra type might be water. If you look at the Rasengan, it seems to be like a water ball being spinned by wind or whatever. So I think maybe Naruto's next element(if he ever gets it) is water.



2. Winds of War...! Pretty funny how Kishimoto must have been lurking around here on the boards to see what the fans thought, since a bunch of the questions from last week were answered this week...! One inquiry in particular was from disappointed fans who wondered aloud "why wind?" since they believed that it wouldn't be as powerful as the other basic elements. Well, hope you guys feel happier this week, 'cause Kakashi just Mangekyou'ed that assumption to pieces and completely Chidori'ed the leftovers! With his statement, we learned that in actuality wind is the strongest battle element in Naruto's world, as it possesses both the ability to blow down and cut through anything! Whoa! But hey, you know what, when you take in account that wind can change landforms, and yet is the most invisible force of the five elements, it doesn't surprise me in the least. Wind is not only a formidable weapon, it's also incredibly stealthy as well, and THAT is everything in a shinobi world.

The whole thing also seems to me kind of poetic as well, because in my mind, Naruto represents the current "wind of change" that's blowing through his continent. If he ever becomes Hokage, which will likely be his eventual accomplishment in the series, it won't be because he was able to cut through opponents with his wind jutsus, it'll be because he influenced so many people to alter their way of thinking. Always a difficult, S-Ranked task. And yes, I'm liking the idea of wind being Naruto's main weapon more than ever, obviously.

Another interesting thing is if you'll remember how the legend of the Kyuubi' powers were presented at the beginning of the series, it went something like this: "single swing of its nine tails would raise tsunamis and flatten mountains." So far, Naruto seems headed towards being able to do something of both to a certain extent.


I actually forgot about that stuff in the VERY FIRST PAGE of Naruto EVER! Pretty neat.

I think your looking deeper into this than Kishimoto... lol


3. Like Peas in a Pod? Alright, we haven't exactly gotten very far yet with finding out more about the history of Yamato and Kakashi's relationship with each other, but we still learned a few things here about them. Well, three things, anyway. First off, they were both remarkably similar in their reactions here to Naruto's puzzled facial expression (which was good for a chuckle or two here), so probably possessed the same kind of tense, somewhat impatient mindset when tutoring a kid like him. Two, they're apparently in a comfort zone and seem very used to working with each other, since Kakashi's quick whispering to Yamato was almost immediate.

And last but not least, they both apparently like to show off...!

We already know Kakashi likes to look cool and all in the most dire of situations, but Yamato? Looks like he doesn't even need much of a reason. Judging from his facial expression there at the end of Kakashi's suggestion, Yamato seemed more than eager to get the demonstration going. His reaction seemed to have that sense of boyish delight, "Woo-hoo! Here I go! Alright!"

Either that or he was extremely pleased that Kakashi had found a quick and easy solution to explaining the answer to Naruto, but Yamato seemed way too excited... Either way, I liked this scene, it seemed to even further humanize both Kakashi and Yamato. Boys will be boys, ya know? Yup, even grown senseis...!


Yeah I noticed Yamato did look a bit grumpy while Kakashi whispered to him. Then his face lit up like: "Yeah!"

I also noticed Kakashi's face right before that, he seemed to be suprised by how thoughtful his questions were. He obviosly thought he was too lazy or a complete idiot. It's not nice to judge Kakashi!


4. What's next, Woodstock? And yeah, after Yamato's insane display of effortlessly pulling an 100 feet cliff out of the ground, conjuring a waterfall to burst out of the top, and then causing an instanteous growth of trees on the sides, I almost half-expected him to finish it all off by summoning a crowd of naked hippies to run around the cliff and gleefully throw flower petals in Naruto's general direction! But then again, that would REALLY be flaunting his power, wouldn't ya think?

One thing's for sure - Yamato would be an instant hit with the Greenpeace organization...!

For a minute there after I read the title, I thought you were talking about Charlie Brown. :P


5. The Jutsu Wheel! Ok, back to more serious matters! So with Yamato's demonstration, we got another answer to a question that was brought up last week: the origin of alternative elements such as the "wood" created by Mokuton no Jutsu.

If we're to take the senseis' explanation literally, it seems almost like chakra works somewhat similiar to a color wheel - you know, blue and red makes purple, yellow and blue makes green, and so on. (Reminds you of how Naruto described his Kyuubi chakra as red, doesn't it?) Furthermore, when one simultaneously activates two of the five basic (or "primary") elements, then a "secondary element" would be created, which in Yamato's case would be wood, and Haku's case would be ice.

All that sounds simple enough; the catch, though, is that the shinobi must possess something in his DNA for him to be able to manipulate the two elements at the same time in order to mix them... hence, a Bloodline Limit. This is supported by Haku's case, where his genetic ability allowed him to merge wind and water into ice. This might indicate that in fact the Mokuton no Jutsu is also an advanced Bloodline Limit of sorts, which doesn't surprise me considering it's such a rare ability. For some reason this ability must not been able to be passed on to Shodai's descendants (as Tsunade didn't have it) - perhaps a recessive trait?

However you want to describe it best, allow me to give props to ChuckinUpDeuces for being partially right in his prediction from last thread. Good going!
Spoiler: His quotes, in case you've forgotten (click to show/hide)
Quote
"As well, as far as Jutsu's that don't fall under a certain category of Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, or Lightening, it could be that combinations of these elements create sub-elements.

Another thought....is that the Mokuton Jutsu is a combination of a one in a million combination of Earth and Water Chakra Affinity. "

A fresh, new question, of course, would be how one could "create" a Bloodline Limit in order to be able to manipulate a secondary element, as the lesson would seem to foreshadow. My guess would be that it's not something you can "create," but rather "discover" as in finding out what your elemental strengths are and what your chakra and DNA are capable of doing, and then all that would be left would be becoming skilled at it. With Naruto's immense storage of chakra and the time advantages of the Kage Bunshin, as a result of his training, he could end up discovering an unique Bloodline Limit-type jutsu that only he can use, even before the Akatsuki hits town...! Boy, wouldn't the bad guys be in for a surprise then...

Edit: TheBolivianGuy reminded me of an Orochimaru scene where he described chakra, seals, and jutsus as "colors" which would certainly seem to indirectly support my metaphor here in that Kishimoto might have been thinking about it. Thanks!

Really neat metaphor, And good memory TheBolivianGuy!


6. "Yin" and "Yang" Nature Manipulation... Say What? Alright, even though it was a partial answer that we got here, here's what I would guess from Yamato's mention of "Yin" and "Yang" nature manipulation and what that's all about.

Let's stay with the "color wheel" metaphor. If we treat the Mokuton and Hyouton as combinations of primary elements, then Shikamaru and Chouji's abilities may be better thought as mixes of complementary elements. So for example, if Water (Blue) is mixed with its opposing secondary element (Orange) formed from two of the other primary elements (Red & Yellow in this case), then it would produce a "grey" jutsu like the Kagemane no Jutsu. Would be pretty appropriate considering the appearance of shadows, too...! Considering that Yin & Yang are a concept of two complimentary opposites, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Of course, it probably goes without saying that these are Bloodline limits as well, since you practically have to have the capability to manipulate more than just two primary elements (three at least). Shikamaru may have even more potential than any of us realized (but of course, he's too lazy to really care about all that... heh!).

Another interesting note is that Yin is symbolized by water, and Yang is symbolized by fire, so that may be a hint at the elements most often used in "Yin and Yang" nature manipulation right there...

Still, gah! Kakashi's chastened Naruto twice before for being "too hasty," and yet, here he and Yamato are, trying to get the training going quickly without having to explain everything to their student. Ah well... at least we're promised an expanded explanation sometimes, possibly the next time when Shikamaru goes into action.

With the powers of Yin and Yang manipulation, Shikamaru could be the Fung Shuei Mastah!
... Bad joke...


7. Boxing Training!? This may be one of my more obscure comments, but all fans of this boxing manga will hopefully understand what I'm talking about here. When Kakashi ordered Naruto to practice using his chakra in order to cut up a leaf, I was immediately reminded of how the main character, Ippo, in the first chapter of Hajime no Ippo, in order to become a boxer, had to train himself to catch ten falling leaves!

That, of course, made me wonder what Naruto would have been like if he had been a boxer in another life. Hmm... probably not all that different. XD

Anyway, that "Leaf" theme of Konohagakure just keeps coming back, doesn't it? First Naruto had to depend on what he remembered of Iruka's lectures of the "leaf focus" training in order to realize the second step of the Rasengan training, and now this! I wonder if the other villages used their own "symbol" this often in their teachings. Probably, though. In any case...

Never seen that before, but that kid is really stupid...


8. The Shadow Knight...! Please excuse the title, I just thought it looked cool. XD Anyway, Shikamaru is a Knight? No wonder I liked him so much. p

But yeah, we didn't really learn anything new much here from Asuma's metaphor. We all already knew that Shikamaru was better known for his strategic genius than for his raw power, which is what Asuma was saying here with the "Knight" piece used in shogi games. The REAL interesting part came next...


So... Shogi is japanese chess right? ...I'm slow...


9. More Foreshadowing...! Figures we'd get some more of that in Shikamaru's presence. He attracts shadows, after all.

This time, though, the possible foreshadowing is much more serious than earlier in the chapter, especially for Asuma fans...! Some have already suspected it before when Asuma went to Sandaime's grave, and it's looking like they might be right. If Naruto's possibly going to learn a Bloodline Limit-type jutsu, are we also possibly going to see Asuma go out like a "sacrifical shogi piece" in order to protect his "King?" Hopefully not! My immediate reaction was: "No way! We barely know the guy! Don't kill him now just when we were starting to learn more about him!" I mean, we JUST recently found out that he's the son of Sandaime, and aside from that, not much else. We know he likes smoking, can manipulate his chakra in order to extend the range of his weapons, and can knock down a bunch of Sound scouts in about 1.5 seconds. (I'm sure Asuma fans know a bit more, but you get what I mean.)

Unfortunately that's usually a major reason why less-known secondary characters are in the story - so they can be used to add some unexpected drama to the story... usually with their deaths. That's what happened to poor Hayate way back in the Chuunin Exams, old man Sandaime in his battle against Orochimaru, and not too long ago, Chiyo-baasma in the revival of Gaara. So yeah, I'm worried for Asuma now. Better remember him in your prayers tonight, kids!

Of course, Kishimoto may just be his usual "tricky devil" self again, trying to fool us all in thinking that's exactly what would happen. Wouldn't surprise me. Still, the foreshadowing of Chiyo's death did indeed come true, so who knows.

Something wicked this way comes... Hear no Evil, Speak no Evil, See No Evil... The British are coming!

... I'm done...


10. Quick Work, Naruto...! Well, like Kakashi said, that sure didn't take too long for Naruto at all to finish the first step of the training. Want to place bets on how long it'll take for Naruto to complete this training with his Kage Bunshin?

I say, just a day, and probably only two more chapters. Should be relatively quicker than the Rasengan training.

Ah yes... That took fricken forever... Manag chapters full of a ---load of talk, Naruto sweating looking consipated and grabbing his wrist, and PERVERT SANNIN! Eeeeew!

I'm done with my incredibly stupid post... :p :tem :smile-big :noworry :mad :blink :eyeroll :o :amuse :s ;) :notrust :oh :darn :) javascript:void(0);
:turtle

Raine_Joybringer
July 21, 2006, 01:36 AM
You know, I'm really too satisfied with this chapter to really point anything out (or maybe I'm just being lazy?). In any case, I'm glad to have learnt a lot abou the dynamics of chakra, though I wish I could have learnt a bit more like what Naruto asked. Guess I'll have to wait, eh?

Wait... I do have one thing to point out... well, more of a question really, but: Mokuton is the combination of Earth chakra in the right hand, and Water chakra in the left hand. If that were reversed, with Earth in the left, and Water in the right, then would the outcome be affected?

Also, was thinking about Haku's one-handed seals. Interesting... he used his left hand for water jutsu (at least that's what I'm remembering in my mind here).

renrutal
July 21, 2006, 02:50 AM
All that talk about all the different types of jutsu elements is personally quite spooky for me.

For a long time I've been daydreaming about the last and ultimate fight of the series, and the jutsu used to finish it all: One that fuses all the elements in one Dragon shaped attack(with DBZ-esque earthquakes and thundering during the summon).

That would be just too weird if it actually happens... you'd need a bloodline to control all the five primary elements. Heh... that's something only a mad scientist like Orochimaru would be able to create.

BTW, if Yamato is the Greenpeace-nin, Naruto destroying the whole florest with this training would make him what?

destinator
July 21, 2006, 03:08 AM
Very nice as always...its a pleasure to read it.


Predictions: Since the preview from last chapter totally lied to us, I'm just going to predict here that the training continues. Bah.

Well can you remember the Beacon chapter? The preview was that a big danger is approaching but we got a plain talking chapter. This week it was the same. The preview said something about evil things are comming but we got a whole talking chapter again. So I would vote for at least a bit Akatsuki action next chapter. I am just not really sure how much...maybe half training/half fighting or just a big cliffhanger at the last page.

ibra87
July 21, 2006, 03:40 AM
As said by others, great comments. I agree with you on most´of the parts too, but I doubt the training would only take 2-3 chapters. I think we'll see stuff regarding Asuma and Akatsuki, which will only make it at least 6-10 chapters. I mean, come on, just holding a leaf and concentrating a chakra took one whole chapter. I'm sure Kishimoto would be able to come up with something.

And I don't know about Shikamaru having an advanced bloodline limit. If that's the case, then about everyone in Konoha has a bloodline limit. Probably something close though.

And about Naruto discovering a bloodline limit, I don't think that will happen. He has the fire kyuubi, remember? So my guess is that at some point when he's using his wind jutsus and isn't able to control the kyuubi we'll be seeing fire tornadoes. Probably a Portogas. D. Naruto.

yeste
July 21, 2006, 08:17 AM
Huh…I waited for this last night, till 3:30 in the morning, and gave up!!! ( Yeap, I’m weak!!!, damn!!! ). But the “commandments” are out now, great!!! And so many comments…

First of all, too bad about previous reviews from NF… But, what can you do??? Looking forward for future ones!!! Great job, as usual, Gold Knight!!!!!!!!! Here are some of my thoughts on this…

About the cover…it’s a little too obvious. But this is the element that Naruto had like forever. Even in the part two where the characters clothes wore changed, the “whirlpool” stayed on his left shoulder!!! So, you’re right about that, Kishimoto is making a hint that he planed this all along!!!
And it would have been nice to see somewhat more inspiring cover regarding the subject. Damn, that one you described would be soooo good!!! Make more effort for the covers Kishi damn it!!! ( they become people’s desktops for crying out loud!!! )

“'cause Kakashi just Mangekyou'ed that assumption to pieces and completely Chidori'ed the leftovers!”!!?! Seem you enjoyed writing this!!! And it’s written great!!! Yeah, this was something good to know! I never had any doubts about this, but it’s always nice to have it confirmed!!! And a good call there about the stealth quality of this particular element. That is everything in the shinobi world. I always forget that. ( they are shinobies )

Yes, they are showoffs for sure. Let’s see Kakashi is the cool quiet one, Yamato looks more like friendly but mysterious??? ( I’m joking about this because I just remembered the South Park episode – Boy Band !?!! “ I wanna be the tough one” “ no, you can be the one that loves his mother!!! “ … :p ) But now it’s definitely obvious that they do have some history between them… And they both do seem very pleased to explain this to Naruto…

He, he the Jutsu wheel!!! This is a great analogy!!! It does make a lot of sense!!! Especially now, that we’ve gotten the Yin – Yang to the subject!!! So it’s a game of shadow and light ???? I suspected that we’ll be having the combining elements. Since the last chapter, I thought that a suitable analogy for this would be something along the lines of Blood Types…matching chakra nature…and with combining… You know the stuff… One can receive other, but it doesn’t work other way around… Well that was my analogy!!! And it made sense for me. But this one with colors is great!!! Even better!!! And very good explanation about the Blood Limit.

Just something I noticed yesterday… Shikamaru has a really serious face in the part 2 of the manga… Yeah, he was serious/bored before but now, looks like he’s all about business!?!! About all that, I’ve commented that Asuma is getting ready for some sort of a personal sacrifice. But I hope you’re wrong… It would really be too bad for him to die now!!! Whatever happens, he will be in the next story arch, along with Shikamaru I guess, so it can only be excellent!!!

Great review!!! I like it a lot!!!

I hope you won’t mind, I have a few propositions… Since this was the last chapter in this volume ( by my count, but I can be wrong! ) it would be great to have some sort of a well comments on the volume!!! Something like recapitulation!?!! Because, for me anyways, that would add some glue to the whole story, in a way that it would connect the events better for further comments!?!!

Now, I’ve browsed trough this volume last night, and some things wore more clear. Like, just in the light of this new revelation of Chakra elements it makes way more sense what was Sasuke’s new strength and jutsu’s all about. This is something that Kakashi understood right away… Probably Yamato too, but not us!!! He knew what has Orochimaru thought him, and this is something that we can only comment now. And he decided to get Naruto up to speed.

I have way more thoughts on this, but maybe you guys don’t like the idea, so I don’t want to bore you with it… Just thought it’d be nice??? What you think??? :blink

Yomiko
July 21, 2006, 09:46 AM
Great comments, Gold Knight. I'm mostly a lurker, but I enjoy reading your comments each week - they really help me to wrap my head around the chapter.


Either way, I liked this scene, it seemed to even further humanize both Kakashi and Yamato. Boys will be boys, ya know? Yup, even grown senseis...!

The interaction between Kakashi and Yamato was one of the highlights of the chapter for me. While I'm enjoying learning about the nature of chakra, I'm still finding it hard to keep everything straight, so I'm just kind of along for the ride. But one thing I always loved about Naruto was the character interaction, so I'm always pleased when we do get it. It's nice to see Kakashi interacting with another human being who isn't Naruto or Sakura or spending the entire chapter bedridden/with his nose stuck in one of his Icha Icha books. And even though he's a late introduction, I like Yamato. He's a very serene presence, if you know what I mean. And Kishimoto totally got me with his patented Sympathetic Character Backstory no jutsu as far as Yamato is concerned.


The other thing that was brought up here was who Asuma considered to be the "King." He hinted that Shikamaru would figure it out when the time came, but I say it's just that "precious person" that's earned itself such a niche as an on-going theme in Naruto ever since Haku died for Zabuza.

I'm still wavering on who Asuma was referring too, although I think you may be correct that he was referring to whomever one's precious person is. I don't believe he was specifically referring to Naruto, but I do think by switching the scene immediately back to Naruto Kishimoto was letting US know that Naruto is a very important piece. Someone on the chapter discussion thread pointed out the lovely visual metaphor of the bare tree, which represents Konoha, and Naruto holding all of the leaves, i.e., the people, in his hands. Makes me think that someday Naruto will be called upon to save the village, much like the Yondaime, even if doesn't become Hokage.

Eagerly awaiting next week's chapter.

Dragonzair
July 21, 2006, 12:08 PM
And incidentally, just for your personal amusement, here's another hint that Kishimoto might have had wind in mind for Naruto's element since way back when... (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/786/puuuju2.jpg)


*dies laughing like a maniac*


Unfortunately that's usually a major reason why less-known secondary characters are in the story - so they can be used to add some unexpected drama to the story... usually with their deaths. That's what happened to poor Hayate way back in the Chuunin Exams, old man Sandaime in his battle against Orochimaru, and not too long ago, Chiyo-baasma in the revival of Gaara. So yeah, I'm worried for Asuma now. Better remember him in your prayers tonight, kids!

*cries like a maniac*


In some ways I think Kishimoto might have committed something of a mistake by implying that Asuma might die just as the series was returning to more focus on secondary characters, which might upset some fans.

More than upset. =/

So much for bringing him back, Kishi, you ass.

T___T


And to think all his fans were excited about his showing up, now they're dreading what might happen next. Ah, how quickly the tides change.

2 pages, to say the least, of this particular chapter in the Asuma FC back in NF. Though Goober and alot of others still have hope, and I'm trying to gain good thought in my mind really, but things like seeing Kishimoto in a shish kebab never sstops coming. :darn

Blargh.

Anyway, as to who the this 'King' might be. You're right. Definitiely a precious person. It may as well have been the Daimyou of the Fire Country, but the Akatsuki doesn't really have anything against him. And I don't see him being 'precious' to Asu-kun, anyway.

Naruto may seem a possiblity, but my point on why it shouldn't be him is because I can't imagine Asuma 'dying' for him. Konoha is already gonig to lenghts on trying to protect Naruto, so he's already a part of that. More importantly, Naruto is not precious to Asuma. Naruto is merely a fellow soldier for Konoha. Heck, for all I know, he's a Knight as well.

The King could be Konoha, like many others were saying. Maybe that's why Asuma was talking to his father about that. He porbably finally realised jsut how precious Konoha was, and apologises to his father for leaving his home jsut like that. He never regretted it though. *shrug* Go firgure. XD

Then again, I can't help but think about Kurenai as well.

Juat what is Kurenai? From just that name, a lot of theories can come. XD Is she related to the AL? In any danger from the Akatsuki? Or maybe, she's related to the Daimyou? (XD)

These two characters were merely secondary characters before, and definitely, Kishi has something in store for her as well. Prrof of this would be from Chapter 313. Sure, maybe he just doesn't want to involve her in hatever he was going to say. But why, first of all?

Just how important is it, that he could only tell Kakashi? And actually feel even more agitated when Kurenai pops in?

BLargh.h Must be the fangirl in me, but I don't care.

I'll talk for how long I want, (rant more likely T___T), but this is your thread. T_T And I think I've blown off everything on MSN already. XD I think XD.

Nyuh.

Overall, I ENJOY YOUR TEN COMMENTS! XD Keep 'em up, Ken chan! :glomp

ibra87
July 21, 2006, 03:09 PM
I just remembered something. When Naruto first meets Jiraiya and asks him to be his teacher, Jiraiya says no. To escape from Naruto, Jiraiya forms seals with his hands and a strong wind occurs. <- Jiraiya is also wind-elemental

Gold Knight
July 21, 2006, 09:45 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking his second chakra type might be water. If you look at the Rasengan, it seems to be like a water ball being spinned by wind or whatever. So I think maybe Naruto's next element(if he ever gets it) is water.

I definitely agree. Can't be anything else but water, if Kishimoto wants to be strict in following the themes he's set for the Naruto character.


I also noticed Kakashi's face right before that, he seemed to be suprised by how thoughtful his questions were. He obviosly thought he was too lazy or a complete idiot. It's not nice to judge Kakashi!

Heh, but it's always satisfying to see Kakashi a bit surprised by Naruto. Did Sasuke ever surprise him like that, aside from the betrayal? Probably not. And anyway, Naruto really didn't give Kakashi a very good first impression from the start, did he?


For a minute there after I read the title, I thought you were talking about Charlie Brown. :P

LoL. No. no.


With the powers of Yin and Yang manipulation, Shikamaru could be the Fung Shuei Mastah!
... Bad joke...

...mustaches and all? I can see that. :D


Never seen that before, but that kid is really stupid...

Ippo? You probably had to read the rest of the chapter to understand what was going on, tho... He was trying to impress a pro boxer enough to take him on for training, and the boxer gave him the task of shaking a tree and catching at least 10 falling leaves before they all hit the ground with his "jabs." Wasn't as easy as you'd think it would be, though...

Oh well, I'll try to keep from making obscure references to other manga like that in the future, it was just the first thing that entered my mind when I saw that going on, heh.


So... Shogi is japanese chess right? ...I'm slow...

Kinda, but it's not chess with the same rules and pieces at all. Hisshou had a link in his translation thread that explained the game, so you might wanna check it out.



Wait... I do have one thing to point out... well, more of a question really, but: Mokuton is the combination of Earth chakra in the right hand, and Water chakra in the left hand. If that were reversed, with Earth in the left, and Water in the right, then would the outcome be affected?

Good question! Maybe Mud? That seemed to be one of Sandaime's favorite weapons XD


Also, was thinking about Haku's one-handed seals. Interesting... he used his left hand for water jutsu (at least that's what I'm remembering in my mind here).


Yep, but I bet that his hand gesturing was so lightning fast that he was able to channel his Wind chakra as well, we just didn't see it... *somebody turn the slow mo on!*



All that talk about all the different types of jutsu elements is personally quite spooky for me.

For a long time I've been daydreaming about the last and ultimate fight of the series, and the jutsu used to finish it all: One that fuses all the elements in one Dragon shaped attack(with DBZ-esque earthquakes and thundering during the summon).

That would be just too weird if it actually happens... you'd need a bloodline to control all the five primary elements. Heh... that's something only a mad scientist like Orochimaru would be able to create.

Actually, that sounds kinda like what the Kyuubi is capable of, might be why the Akatsuki want the bijuu.


BTW, if Yamato is the Greenpeace-nin, Naruto destroying the whole florest with this training would make him what?


An environmental hazard? But at least it ain't bad as when he's Kyuubified, the trees are STILL there, it's just the leaves XD



Very nice as always...its a pleasure to read it.

Well can you remember the Beacon chapter? The preview was that a big danger is approaching but we got a plain talking chapter. This week it was the same. The preview said something about evil things are comming but we got a whole talking chapter again. So I would vote for at least a bit Akatsuki action next chapter. I am just not really sure how much...maybe half training/half fighting or just a big cliffhanger at the last page.


We'll see, but don't get your hopes up, you might get Ino and Sakura talking about flowers again XD



As said by others, great comments. I agree with you on most´of the parts too, but I doubt the training would only take 2-3 chapters. I think we'll see stuff regarding Asuma and Akatsuki, which will only make it at least 6-10 chapters. I mean, come on, just holding a leaf and concentrating a chakra took one whole chapter. I'm sure Kishimoto would be able to come up with something.

The thing is I think Kishimoto wants to show just how amazingly fast the Bunshins are in training. That's why I think we'll see the training being complete really quickly. Also, an former ANBU and a current ANBU are present with Naruto, and I think Tsunade is going to need at least one of them soon for a mission. That's why I think the training will be complete in at least a day.


And I don't know about Shikamaru having an advanced bloodline limit. If that's the case, then about everyone in Konoha has a bloodline limit. Probably something close though.

Well, it seems that almost every clan we've seen so far in the series does share an unique ability.


And about Naruto discovering a bloodline limit, I don't think that will happen. He has the fire kyuubi, remember? So my guess is that at some point when he's using his wind jutsus and isn't able to control the kyuubi we'll be seeing fire tornadoes. Probably a Portogas. D. Naruto.


I don't actually think it will happen either right now, but it might be foreshadowing for much later in the series. And who knows, the "Yellow Flash" jutsu might be a Bloodline Limit for all we know, Naruto just hasn't discovered it yet.



Huh…I waited for this last night, till 3:30 in the morning, and gave up!!! ( Yeap, I’m weak!!!, damn!!! ). But the “commandments” are out now, great!!! And so many comments…

I suppose you've got to remember that when I say "tonight" that's probably "tomorrow" for you. Also, the day I was writing the comments, I was constantly interrupted by life... you know how it goes. XD


First of all, too bad about previous reviews from NF… But, what can you do??? Looking forward for future ones!!! Great job, as usual, Gold Knight!!!!!!!!! Here are some of my thoughts on this…

They really were more or less warm-ups for all the reviews here anyway. And thanks. ;)


About the cover…it’s a little too obvious. But this is the element that Naruto had like forever. Even in the part two where the characters clothes wore changed, the “whirlpool” stayed on his left shoulder!!! So, you’re right about that, Kishimoto is making a hint that he planed this all along!!!
And it would have been nice to see somewhat more inspiring cover regarding the subject. Damn, that one you described would be soooo good!!! Make more effort for the covers Kishi damn it!!! ( they become people’s desktops for crying out loud!!! )

LoL, I guess it's just that Kishimoto does have to worry about deadlines and the like. Also, because the chapters recently went from 19 pages to 17 pages, I've often thought that Kishimoto might have also lost some of his fire. He's not getting any younger... but luckily I think the move from 19 to 17 pages worked, because Kishimoto's doing a better job lately story-wise and has come up with some pretty cool covers last spring.


“'cause Kakashi just Mangekyou'ed that assumption to pieces and completely Chidori'ed the leftovers!”!!?! Seem you enjoyed writing this!!! And it’s written great!!!

Well, I AM a Kakashi fan... XD


Yeah, this was something good to know! I never had any doubts about this, but it’s always nice to have it confirmed!!! And a good call there about the stealth quality of this particular element. That is everything in the shinobi world. I always forget that. ( they are shinobies )

I've always thought that Kishimoto often forgets the one thing that makes a ninja a "ninja" is their stealth, and I think it's because Naruto is such an oxymoron when it comes to that.


Yes, they are showoffs for sure. Let’s see Kakashi is the cool quiet one, Yamato looks more like friendly but mysterious??? ( I’m joking about this because I just remembered the South Park episode – Boy Band !?!! “ I wanna be the tough one” “ no, you can be the one that loves his mother!!! “ … :p ) But now it’s definitely obvious that they do have some history between them… And they both do seem very pleased to explain this to Naruto…

Well, Yamato did mention that he was once teamed up with Kakashi in the ANBU (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6484/narutov33chap298p15lt7.png), so that was what made me so curious.


He, he the Jutsu wheel!!! This is a great analogy!!! It does make a lot of sense!!! Especially now, that we’ve gotten the Yin – Yang to the subject!!! So it’s a game of shadow and light ???? I suspected that we’ll be having the combining elements. Since the last chapter, I thought that a suitable analogy for this would be something along the lines of Blood Types…matching chakra nature…and with combining… You know the stuff… One can receive other, but it doesn’t work other way around… Well that was my analogy!!! And it made sense for me. But this one with colors is great!!! Even better!!! And very good explanation about the Blood Limit.

Thanks! ^_^ Although in a typical color wheel, there are only three primary colors (Yellow, Red, and Blue), and in the "Jutsu Wheel" there are five primary elements, so a bit more complicated for sure.


I hope you won’t mind, I have a few propositions… Since this was the last chapter in this volume ( by my count, but I can be wrong! ) it would be great to have some sort of a well comments on the volume!!! Something like recapitulation!?!! Because, for me anyways, that would add some glue to the whole story, in a way that it would connect the events better for further comments!?!!

I'll certainly think about it (especially since we just hit the end of Volume 35, didn't we?) I guess that'd be fun to do a retrospective review. Maybe I'll do that sometimes before Chapter 317 comes out ^_^


Now, I’ve browsed trough this volume last night, and some things wore more clear. Like, just in the light of this new revelation of Chakra elements it makes way more sense what was Sasuke’s new strength and jutsu’s all about. This is something that Kakashi understood right away… Probably Yamato too, but not us!!! He knew what has Orochimaru thought him, and this is something that we can only comment now. And he decided to get Naruto up to speed.

True, a lot of things were made a lot more clear.


I have way more thoughts on this, but maybe you guys don’t like the idea, so I don’t want to bore you with it… Just thought it’d be nice??? What you think??? :blink


Definitely sounds cool ^_^



Yeste, I'm not GK, but I'm sure yours thoughts are welcome. The more the better O_o


What he said :thumbs



Great comments, Gold Knight. I'm mostly a lurker, but I enjoy reading your comments each week - they really help me to wrap my head around the chapter.

I sooo enjoy it when lurkers come out and comment because of something I said, that's a compliment in itself. XD Glad you enjoy my comments!


The interaction between Kakashi and Yamato was one of the highlights of the chapter for me. While I'm enjoying learning about the nature of chakra, I'm still finding it hard to keep everything straight, so I'm just kind of along for the ride. But one thing I always loved about Naruto was the character interaction, so I'm always pleased when we do get it. It's nice to see Kakashi interacting with another human being who isn't Naruto or Sakura or spending the entire chapter bedridden/with his nose stuck in one of his Icha Icha books. And even though he's a late introduction, I like Yamato. He's a very serene presence, if you know what I mean. And Kishimoto totally got me with his patented Sympathetic Character Backstory no jutsu as far as Yamato is concerned.

I think the series is definitely at a point where Kishimoto should think more about giving us more character interaction between the jounins and hopefully he's thinking the same thing, right now. And yes, I agree, Yamato does have a tendency to make the reader "comfortable" with him, even more than Kakashi (at least in this particular arc) which is odd given Yamato's more gung ho approach to leaving teammates behind as opposed as to Kakashi's creed of never abandoning his friends. But I know what you mean.


I'm still wavering on who Asuma was referring too, although I think you may be correct that he was referring to whomever one's precious person is. I don't believe he was specifically referring to Naruto, but I do think by switching the scene immediately back to Naruto Kishimoto was letting US know that Naruto is a very important piece. Someone on the chapter discussion thread pointed out the lovely visual metaphor of the bare tree, which represents Konoha, and Naruto holding all of the leaves, i.e., the people, in his hands. Makes me think that someday Naruto will be called upon to save the village, much like the Yondaime, even if doesn't become Hokage.

I know "Naruto" is a popular answer it seems, but I really don't get why. Asuma has never had any interaction with Naruto, really. If it's Naruto that just now changed his mind, why would that be the case when Naruto's been away for two years and a half?


Eagerly awaiting next week's chapter.


Me too! And thanks for dropping by!



Anyway, as to who the this 'King' might be. You're right. Definitiely a precious person. It may as well have been the Daimyou of the Fire Country, but the Akatsuki doesn't really have anything against him. And I don't see him being 'precious' to Asu-kun, anyway.

Naruto may seem a possiblity, but my point on why it shouldn't be him is because I can't imagine Asuma 'dying' for him. Konoha is already gonig to lenghts on trying to protect Naruto, so he's already a part of that. More importantly, Naruto is not precious to Asuma. Naruto is merely a fellow soldier for Konoha. Heck, for all I know, he's a Knight as well.

I actually don't even think that Asuma would go that far as appointing Naruto a "Knight" especially since Naruto is almost the reverse of Shikamaru. Where Shikamaru plans ahead and doesn't take any unnecessary risks, Naruto improvises on the spot, and he CAN do that because of his incredible endurance and stamina. I don't know what that would be in shogi, though, I don't know enough about the pieces yet.


The King could be Konoha, like many others were saying. Maybe that's why Asuma was talking to his father about that. He porbably finally realised jsut how precious Konoha was, and apologises to his father for leaving his home jsut like that. He never regretted it though. *shrug* Go firgure. XD

Actually, the only regrets in life that I think we should possess are whenever we do harm to others and have never been able to make up for it. That's what usually comes back to haunt us. Any bad choices we make for ourselves in life are usually in the past, and what use is there in regretting personal past experiences?

Asuma doesn't regret the experiences that made him who he is now, though, especially since it's these very experiences that might have led him to better understand what his father was all about. And since Sandaime was probably the kind of father to allow Asuma his own choices and has never seemed to show any pain about Asuma's rebellious nature, what really is there to regret?


Then again, I can't help but think about Kurenai as well.

Juat what is Kurenai? From just that name, a lot of theories can come. XD Is she related to the AL? In any danger from the Akatsuki? Or maybe, she's related to the Daimyou? (XD)

That was a fun theory, but something tells me that would complicate the story even more and really bring the focus on Asuma and Kurenai, and Kishimoto's never been one to do that for long for secondary characters.


These two characters were merely secondary characters before, and definitely, Kishi has something in store for her as well. Prrof of this would be from Chapter 313. Sure, maybe he just doesn't want to involve her in hatever he was going to say. But why, first of all?

At this point I would say because Asuma doesn't want to worry Kurenai. He might be going on a very dangerous mission. Kishimoto's always been one to want to bring romance into the series, and I think that's really all it is. Of course, I could be wrong...



Overall, I ENJOY YOUR TEN COMMENTS! XD Keep 'em up, Ken chan! :glomp


Thanks Yachiru chan! :D



I just remembered something. When Naruto first meets Jiraiya and asks him to be his teacher, Jiraiya says no. To escape from Naruto, Jiraiya forms seals with his hands and a strong wind occurs. <- Jiraiya is also wind-elemental


I don't think that happened in the manga... JUST as Jiraiya was about to do a jutsu on him, Naruto "Sexy No Jutsu'ed" him into submission. ;)

ibra87
July 22, 2006, 03:42 AM
I don't think that happened in the manga... JUST as Jiraiya was about to do a jutsu on him, Naruto "Sexy No Jutsu'ed" him into submission. ;)

Just read the chapters, that's right. Fooled again by the anime, argh.

ChuckinUpDueces
July 22, 2006, 04:35 AM
Another week, another 10 comments from the Gold Knight. :hi5 I appreciate the shout out GK, I'll admit I was feeling pretty smug after reading this latest chapter.


As far as the new questions of Bloodline Limits, and how they vary, your definately on the right track GK. After giving it some thought, I too think it's possible that each character has certain characteristics to their chakra that when pushed to the limits creates a jutsu that is unique to them. This can even be argued with Kakashi who has the Raikidi, which has been said to be different than the Chidori, and useable only by him. Most of the Genin 9 with the exceptions of Sakura, Rock Lee, and TenTen, all posses unique abilities that have been passed on through the genes of their parents. I believe that Naruto may well have a Bloodline Limit, but it's all in how you interpt that phrase. I think HIS BLOODLINE TRAITS extend to a certain LIMIT that may go somewhere that others can't. Similarily to how Sasuke, Itachi, and Obito all gained the Sharingan at different ages, the varying degrees of power that came with that limit was unique to them all. None of them shared the exact same limit, but all had the bloodline trait to make it possible to reach that limit. When Obito First gained the Sharingan he had 2 dots in each eye. When Sasuke first gained Sharingan he had 1 dot in one eye, 2 in the other. Same bloodline trait, different limit. This is also seen with Kimmimaro, who of all the people in his clan, his bloodline trait had the greatest limit. Haku also had a bloodline trait that was similiar to those of his clan, but was not necessarily to the same limit. Understanding the Bloodline Limits, is all in how you broach the subject. Yondaime Hokage and Sandaime Kazekage (Sasori's Puppet) were both born with unique Chakra molding abilities (similar to Shodai and Yamato) that allowed them to use Jutsu's beyond the reaches of others either within their families, or outside (like Sharingan Users perhaps). The limits of their unique Bloodline Traits took the form of ultimate Jutsu's that remain legendary even in their deaths. Sandaime Hokage most likely gained recognition for being able to use all the jutsu in Konoha that weren't Bloodline Limit related because he himself rather than having a limit beyond reach, was just within the reach of all limits.

With that being said, I must rehash an idea from Chapter 315. On page 14, after Naruto grasps what Sasuke's 2 affinities are (Lightening and Fire), Kakashi then proceeds to tell Naruto that he on the other hand is a Zero. Now i'm not to sure what this means right now, but something tells me it will come into play later on, giving Naruto some crazy God-like potential for his new ultimate jutsu. I hate to use the DBZ comparisons, but Goku was rated at a powerlevel of 1 when he was born, so you can just tell that this'll lead to something big.

Yet before all this happens, one thing really concerns me, and that is the Kage Bunshin Training. It can't possibly be this simple with no side effects. Side effects are what keep the powerful characters in check in the Naruverse, and the main character is no different. He has a forbidden jutsu for a main weapon, but the forebodding might be more than just the rapid chakra comsumption. Kakashi has never done this kind of training, nor has he ever created the amount of Bunshins that Naruto is capable of, where does this thing backfire? I'm thinking it might be when 1000 Bunshins all doing detailed work suddenly merge into one mind instantly. The human brain can only take so much IMO, and this might seriously blow Naruto's head up. Before when he made a lot of Bunshins the goal was pretty single minded, if not just a well executed plan, whereas here it's detailed work that involves brainpower for recalling. The latent Kyuubi Chakra may heal physical injuries quickly, but mental fatigue from sorting a 1000 memories may be kind of tough on Naruto and just the opening Kyuubi needs to unleash, remember, it's always watching. I guess this is where Captain Yamato comes in, but got-damn if the training teaches Kyuubi something (a la one handed Rasengan).....I feel sorry for any Akatsuki who might stumble into that minefield.


The Ying and Yang of chakra usage might go back to something to do with the Curse Seal and the benefits and drawbacks to both.

Asuma was the man during the Chuunin Exams, and I will miss him lol
Jokes aside, he's probably the deliverer of the answers we've been searching for all this time. I think he might have resented Sarutobi for the ban he imposed after the fight with Kyuubi for some reason, far fetched as that might sound.

Oh yea, the Cover makes me think Naruto's gonna start sprouting hairs for a moustache and goatee to go along with the whiskers soon.



As always I really enjoyed the comments! The responses as well. I also apologize for writing so much extra stuff goinh off like that, I hope nothing gets spoiled (i should post in predictions most likely after reading these lol) but what's done, is done, enjoy!

Gold Knight
July 22, 2006, 01:39 PM
As far as the new questions of Bloodline Limits, and how they vary, your definately on the right track GK. After giving it some thought, I too think it's possible that each character has certain characteristics to their chakra that when pushed to the limits creates a jutsu that is unique to them. This can even be argued with Kakashi who has the Raikidi, which has been said to be different than the Chidori, and useable only by him. Most of the Genin 9 with the exceptions of Sakura, Rock Lee, and TenTen, all posses unique abilities that have been passed on through the genes of their parents. I believe that Naruto may well have a Bloodline Limit, but it's all in how you interpt that phrase. I think HIS BLOODLINE TRAITS extend to a certain LIMIT that may go somewhere that others can't. Similarily to how Sasuke, Itachi, and Obito all gained the Sharingan at different ages, the varying degrees of power that came with that limit was unique to them all. None of them shared the exact same limit, but all had the bloodline trait to make it possible to reach that limit. When Obito First gained the Sharingan he had 2 dots in each eye. When Sasuke first gained Sharingan he had 1 dot in one eye, 2 in the other. Same bloodline trait, different limit. This is also seen with Kimmimaro, who of all the people in his clan, his bloodline trait had the greatest limit. Haku also had a bloodline trait that was similiar to those of his clan, but was not necessarily to the same limit. Understanding the Bloodline Limits, is all in how you broach the subject. Yondaime Hokage and Sandaime Kazekage (Sasori's Puppet) were both born with unique Chakra molding abilities (similar to Shodai and Yamato) that allowed them to use Jutsu's beyond the reaches of others either within their families, or outside (like Sharingan Users perhaps). The limits of their unique Bloodline Traits took the form of ultimate Jutsu's that remain legendary even in their deaths. Sandaime Hokage most likely gained recognition for being able to use all the jutsu in Konoha that weren't Bloodline Limit related because he himself rather than having a limit beyond reach, was just within the reach of all limits.

Well said!


With that being said, I must rehash an idea from Chapter 315. On page 14, after Naruto grasps what Sasuke's 2 affinities are (Lightening and Fire), Kakashi then proceeds to tell Naruto that he on the other hand is a Zero. Now i'm not to sure what this means right now, but something tells me it will come into play later on, giving Naruto some crazy God-like potential for his new ultimate jutsu. I hate to use the DBZ comparisons, but Goku was rated at a powerlevel of 1 when he was born, so you can just tell that this'll lead to something big.

Hm, I took Kakashi's "zero" comment as meaning that none of the elements really came naturally to Naruto that he used any of them subconsciously and constantly, and that he's extremely raw. With wind manipulation, he'd become an "one." Sasuke is more a "two" because of his Lightning and Fire tendencies. I could be wrong, of course, but Kishimoto is so careful at keeping Naruto as an underdog that I don't think he'll achieve Goku-level powers right away.


Yet before all this happens, one thing really concerns me, and that is the Kage Bunshin Training. It can't possibly be this simple with no side effects. Side effects are what keep the powerful characters in check in the Naruverse, and the main character is no different. He has a forbidden jutsu for a main weapon, but the forebodding might be more than just the rapid chakra comsumption. Kakashi has never done this kind of training, nor has he ever created the amount of Bunshins that Naruto is capable of, where does this thing backfire? I'm thinking it might be when 1000 Bunshins all doing detailed work suddenly merge into one mind instantly. The human brain can only take so much IMO, and this might seriously blow Naruto's head up. Before when he made a lot of Bunshins the goal was pretty single minded, if not just a well executed plan, whereas here it's detailed work that involves brainpower for recalling. The latent Kyuubi Chakra may heal physical injuries quickly, but mental fatigue from sorting a 1000 memories may be kind of tough on Naruto and just the opening Kyuubi needs to unleash, remember, it's always watching. I guess this is where Captain Yamato comes in, but got-damn if the training teaches Kyuubi something (a la one handed Rasengan).....I feel sorry for any Akatsuki who might stumble into that minefield.

That would be a pretty good negative side effect to keep Naruto in check, if he started having migraines! You're right, though, at the moment Naruto does really have an amazing advantage. I think what Kishimoto might have in mind is that the Kyuubi would have more opportunities to "take control" somehow with Naruto's chakra so thinly spread out. Kakashi is aware of this possibility, so that's why he brought Yamato along.


The Ying and Yang of chakra usage might go back to something to do with the Curse Seal and the benefits and drawbacks to both.

Hm, could be related. That just reminded me, the whole process of "Sealing" also used all of the basic elements (I think) as shown here (http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1654/sealhl9.jpg) (I see the kanji for fire, water, and earth appearing when Orochimaru initiated the seal process, not sure about the other two), so that's probably proof right there that Kishimoto DID have this in mind for a long while. He didn't just come up with it on the spot.

That typical sealing might use the five basic elements in each finger, but the curse seals would draw on the yin & yang manipulation. So you're most likely right.


Asuma was the man during the Chuunin Exams, and I will miss him lol
Jokes aside, he's probably the deliverer of the answers we've been searching for all this time. I think he might have resented Sarutobi for the ban he imposed after the fight with Kyuubi for some reason, far fetched as that might sound.

Hmm, maybe. The battle with the Kyuubi certainly seemed to result into some dark times for Konohagakure.


Oh yea, the Cover makes me think Naruto's gonna start sprouting hairs for a moustache and goatee to go along with the whiskers soon.

LoL, I doubt it XD If for no other reason but for the "pretty boy leading character syndrome" in manga.

I still see Naruto getting more Yondaime-like in his hair growth, though he'll probably never have as much hair.


As always I really enjoyed the comments! The responses as well. I also apologize for writing so much extra stuff goinh off like that, I hope nothing gets spoiled (i should post in predictions most likely after reading these lol) but what's done, is done, enjoy!


Thanks and I didn't mind :D

white silver
July 23, 2006, 09:11 PM
[b][font=verdana][size=1]Aren't you guys glad I requested a [color=red]GK's Top Ten Comments thread!

Excellent commentary GK, you must have got an A in literature in school. It seems that you've become quite the expert in these things now.

Here's what I think about the "King":

The "king" in the chesspiece is obviously the most important piece, but what is it, to me, that could be anyone, even your teammate. It kind of reminded me of Kakashi Gaiden when Rin was captured, to Obito, she was the "king" yet Kakashi refused to help but rather go with the mission. Is Asuma trying to teach the Shikimaru that life over missions is more valuable? <-- Personal thoughts

As for the poll, it is very likely the training would end very quickly. I can see the Akatsuki members dropping by fighting Asuma, Kaksahi and Yamato. Kakuzu noticing Asuma's bandana would make an interesting effect to the manga. Meanwhile Naruto is still training alone in the woods only to come out with a new jutsu to kick their asses.

Anax
July 24, 2006, 08:43 AM
Ok, late as I may be my constant apologies seem too tiresome, so instead of excuses, I'll just get down to the commentary of the comments :D

1.) Who knows what Kishimoto has in his mind? Who really? I can't argue with you reasoning, since the all too familiar spiral is prominently featured near the middle of the cover, still I see more to this. Usually we see a character from the nose down when they are crying, or are very mad or very determined. This time I think it's a sign of determination and it also makes Naruto look more mature, firm and... downright cool :D

2.) Even as I'm typing this I don't know "why wind" for me. It somehow feels right, whereas water would feel too awkward. Yup, that's right we have a straight up disagreement here :eyeroll Really now, Naruto has never had anything pointing to elements about him, hence Kakashi's comment of him being a "zero", in my eyes, which fits perfectly with the invisible nature of wind! As for a secondary element, hinted by Kakashi, I'd say fire for Naruto's fiery tamperament and his "compatibility" with the Kyuubi. Water is feminine, Fire is masculine, Water is calm and receiving, Fire is raging and giving. Naruto looks and feels like Fire and Wind to me... Shino would make a good candidate for Water :jk

Also, as far as Naruto -the manga- and stealth goes, I think it's nothing like that most of the time... Kishimoto has admited wanting to make a story about a young kind who found a magic book and became a wizard but didn't because of Harry Potter. So, he wrote a story about a young, dumb jinchuuriki who got a scroll and learnt a kinjutsu overnight (never got over that sorry). I think that in Naruto how stealthy one is depends on their tamperament and level. Itachi may be walking around in flamboyant, (possibly) silk, black robes with red clouds and still go by unnoticed should he wish to, through the use of genjutsu. Other people with less apparent skill in stealth can do it with the good ol' writer's trick: Show them facing their goal and then show them having reached that goal, possibly including 1-2 awed characters (teammates or enemies), wondering just how they did it! This way the audience doesn't need to know as well :D But I'm dragging...

3.) Those two have demonstrated good teamwork so far and I can only expect MORE from them. As for Yamato's face after Kishimot's whisper... the whole scene reminded me of comic strips in newspapers and crossword magazines! I guess we'll never know what Kakashi told Yamato or what the latter was thinking at that moment his face lit up, but it was worth it, definately a nice moment. For me Kakashi said something along the lines of "Mind showing him?" and Yamato thought either a) "Great! Another chance to show off my skills!!" or b) "Show him? Wow, Kakashi sensei is so smart, why didn't I think of that before?". :D

4.) Yeah I told you on MSN but the people here don't know so I'll say it all again. :P This guy can effortlessly make hotels, cliffs, waterfalls and grow dozens of trees with a mere clap of his hands and a mokuton "incantation". Really now, one would expect those jutsu to be quite demanding, unless Yamato is yet another stamina freak, which I doubt. Maybe Kishimoto likes the idea of wonders being (seemingly) magically created and perhaps it's his way of filling Naruto with elements he reserved for this other story of his... still, Yamato makes everythign seem possible in this world of Ninja!! In an instant he could build houses, form parks, make waterfalls, restore destroyed forests, supply Konoha with much needed wood and whatnot... it just seems to be draining of so little chakra!! And yeah, Greenpeace would love him. As for Naruto destroying trees for his training... heh, it's nothing Yamato can't fix with a clap of his hands ;)

5.) Personally I don't have this part cleared up in my head either... These elemental wheels often seen in RPGs contain different elements a lot of the time and the combinations yield different sub elements and whatnot. In Grandia water and wind make Ice, in a way quite like in Naruto: When you Water skill and you Wind skill reach a certain level a new move or spell is learnt that involves the sub element. However, in Grandia Lightning is the result of Fire and Wind, unlike in Naruto where it's a standalone "basic" element... That's why I can't really say much about the mechanics of chakra at this moment, nor to do I care to, to be frank. The revelations we've come across so far concerning the nature of chakra are enough for me to grasp what's going on, but not enough to allow me the kind of speculation I like, the deep, PhD level Narutologic kind of speculation (to put it in Kadogirl's words :D ). So, let's wait and see what Kishimoto has in store for us ;)

6.) Yin and Yang manipulation doesn't seem to fit in with the rest so easily. Dark and Light where not in the "chakra wheel" Kakashi used as an example and from Yamato's tone I gather it's a whole different aspect of chakra manipulation. What I'm sure of is that Yin and Yang are outside the elemental spectrum, though I can't quite guess where they fit in, in Naruto physics... I don't think their manipulation requires a bloodline limit though, but it's still much too early to be reaching conclusions. Hopefully, one of my favorite characters, Shikamaru, will shed some light (or cast a shadow?) upon this matter soon...

7.) Hmm... I can in no way relate Naruto's training to Hajime no Ippo :darn Anything chakra related in Naruto brings Ki or aether (or any of its millions of names) in my mind. I guess it works differently for different people :amuse I'm sure Aikido practitioners would be especially happy with Naruto being a wind type and with this new training, since their training involves a lot around visualizing "ki" as "wind" :amuse (although the "ki" in Aikido is not "sword ki", not meant to cut, rather push, but that's another story :darn )

8.) Is it Kishimoto speaking through Asuma, or just Asuma expressing himself? More importantly what will be the role of this Shadw Knight in the upcoming events? Shikamaru being a favorite of mine right up there with Neji, I wish him good luck ;) Hopefully we will be seeing more or InoShikaChou, with more of Shikamaru's coordination. Who knows, Shikamaru might have been underestimated even by his sensei! Wielding the secrets of the Nara clan he might even rise to be a jounin, not for his thinking but for his fighting (or heck, both). Ok, I'll shove the fanboy inside me aside and go on to the next (controversial) part...

9.) So, just what is going on with Asuma? He's been acting strange these days and now this? Intolerable! He is not permited to die! He should cling to life at least for the sake of a certain girl in the UAE (you spoilt Disney fan you ;)).

Ok, let's view this seriously. *assumes a look that screams "PhD in Narutology"* So, Asuma is playing Shougi with Shikamaru, only going against his habits, choosing a more aggressive playstyle this time around... He starts talking deeply, if but cryptically, to Shikamaru about his plans, seemingly trying to get a piece of his burden off his back. Of course I could be way off :amuse Saying that Shika is a Knight while himself is a sacrificial pawn can have two meanings that I see,
i) Shikamaru will be of higher importace that Asuma in the upcoming events
ii) Asuma will be fighting in the front lines, if not behind enemy lines, whereas Shikamaru will be more concentrated in tactics

...or both could be right :darn The fanboy in me can't let Asuma go that easily and he can't even imagine Shikamaru not reacting to that, supreme IQ and all. Perhaps Shikamaru knows better or he just can't imagine his master dying so easily.

Just as I'm typing something came to my mind... Asuma's playstyle in shougi was more aggressive and he spoke of sacrifices, perhaps Tsunade's plans involve more aggressive tactics with Asuma being the tip of the spear, risking his life as an "expendable" piece, but not condemned to death whatsoever, rather being up to him and his abilities (or friends/pupils/Dei ex Machina/DZ chan's wrath).

Concerning the "King", my first reaction was "Naruto". Why? If Asuma spoke with his head, then strategically speaking Naruto should be protected at all costs! The Akatsuki must not, under any circumstances get their hands on yet another bijuu! But miliseconds later I thought "Konoha", because if Asuma spoke with his heart, then that should be the meaning of his words. Just like Saru would have said, and just like Naruto will sometime in the future. To be Hokage is to have the power to protect everyone in Konoha and Naruto too will see this someday. Whether Asuma spoke with his head or heart I can't clearly decide, but I lean towards the latter, since he said somethign along the lines of: "You too will understand someday", which seen analytically cannot refer to Naruto since the danger he's facing is imminent. But enough with all that... I've twisted and turned my mind so much, I'm afraid to even speculate on what Ino will wear tomorrow :jk Really now, Kishimoto should have a team of people scanning the various famous forums for ideas and thoughts on his own world... many a time I think that we put more thought on everythign than the author himself :darn

10.) One of the good things with being late to comment is that other have commented before you, giving you more views of the same event... My personal view on this is that Naruto has not released his Kage Bunshin no Jutsu yet, the clones have not entered his body yet and that's why only one of the managed this slight slice on one of the leaves and also the reason why Kakashi was surprised. When Naruto absorbs all these Bunshin, we'll probably be in for a treat ;)

As for how long the training will last, I cannot say. Some elements of manga don't always work like math, there's the human factor (or the writer factor) involved as well. Naruto learnt Rasengan in one week using no bunshins. That jutsu took 3 years for Yondaime to make but Naruto managed to learn it in one week. Yes, I'm aware that even now, almost three years later, he can't use an one handed Rasengan and that he was guided throughout, but still you can't suppress three years in one week no matter what. So, I really wander what Naruto will be able to master in a time span of 20 virtual years, which is about... 840 weeks :nuts

Ok, that's all, awesome comments as usuall Phil, keep it up! :ossu

shinwei
July 24, 2006, 09:48 AM
Mmm... thanks for the comments, GK, they really inspire me to discuss Naruto with you.

But first, I must apologize because I have this extremely uncontrollable urge to express how impatient I'm getting with the pace of these chapters. If we're talking about the 5-star scale like you're using, I'm afraid I could not have given any of these chapters higher than a 3. This one here, although I really want to give it a higher score to make you happy, I'm afraid it just doesn't earn more than a single star. Here's why:

Kishimoto-sensei is spending way too much time with the unimportant stuff. The explanations for elemental combinations is, in my honest opinion, something that could've been taken care of in one panel. Someone as intelligent as Kakashi should've been able to predict Naruto's questions and answered them all in a monologue, without wasting panels (valuable page space) dedicated to nothing but Naruto asking questions. That page space could have easily been spent progressing Naruto's actual training, which I am probably just as excited as you are to see the results of.

The "Shikamaru is a knight" thing... to be honest I didn't really understand it, but I somehow get the feeling that I'm not supposed to understand it... yet. I think it's still too early to tell where he's going with it (maybe he's not going anywhere at all), so all we really know right now is that Asuma and Shikamaru still have enough free time to play shogi a lot (go on missions, dammit!).

The chapter ends with Kakashi being relatively surprised/pleased at the speed in which Naruto is learning. My #1 desire for Chapter 317 is for the first page to begin with Naruto donig/saying something along the lines of: "Check this out, Kakashi-sensei!" so we can check it out too. Now, I don't mean Naruto should have a full new jutsu by the first page, but he should definitely clear some kind of stage/step of his training so he can tell Kakashi: "check this out!" My #1 fear is if that does NOT happen, and instead we are forced through 16 pages (essentially) of just Kakashi saying: "Wow, that's fast..", with hints of new developments instead of solid new developments.

Gold Knight
July 25, 2006, 02:15 AM
Aren't you guys glad I requested a GK's Top Ten Comments thread!

Well, there's another reason why I'm starting to do my Ten Comments earlier and earlier. Whenever the chapter first comes out in RAW format, either I usually end up conversing about it with my friends on MSN or I happen to read posts here at the Dicussion threads, and while I do enjoy discussing Naruto tremendously, I do still want my Ten Comments to be based on my own initial feelings, thoughts, and reactions, and I can't help but let other people subconsciously either hype me up or down whenever I listen to their thoughts.

So I'm trying to get my Comments out of the way faster so that it will best reflect my own initial reactions and thoughts to the chapter, and also so that I can freely join in conversations about the chapter elsewhere. ^_^


Excellent commentary GK, you must have got an A in literature in school. It seems that you've become quite the expert in these things now.

LOL! Thanks. Heh, I did usually get an A in English, and I took advanced classes to boot... I always thought art was my best subject, and I struggled with my writing, but in college I realized it wasn't true because I ended up struggling more in Art classes than at writing essays for my Art History classes. I was like, "wait a minute... OMG, everything I ever believed in was a lie!" XD


Here's what I think about the "King":

The "king" in the chesspiece is obviously the most important piece, but what is it, to me, that could be anyone, even your teammate. It kind of reminded me of Kakashi Gaiden when Rin was captured, to Obito, she was the "king" yet Kakashi refused to help but rather go with the mission. Is Asuma trying to teach the Shikimaru that life over missions is more valuable? <-- Personal thoughts

Exactly. That's why Asuma couldn't be the one to tell Shikamaru who the "King" was, but rather Shikamaru had to decide that for himself. To Shikamaru, the "King" may actually not be the "everybody in Konoha" like it was to Sandaime, and I believe now Asuma. It may be Chouji. It could be Temari. It could be his dad. Heck, it could even be his mom, the person that made him so mistrustful of the opposite sex.


As for the poll, it is very likely the training would end very quickly. I can see the Akatsuki members dropping by fighting Asuma, Kaksahi and Yamato. Kakuzu noticing Asuma's bandana would make an interesting effect to the manga. Meanwhile Naruto is still training alone in the woods only to come out with a new jutsu to kick their asses.

That's my guess on what will happen, too. ;)



Ok, late as I may be my constant apologies seem too tiresome, so instead of excuses, I'll just get down to the commentary of the comments :D

Ha! Your post makes me feel like my own reviews are also being reviewed, which is funny!!! But I really enjoy reading your comments, please keep 'em coming! :D Even if you're late to the chase. ;)


1.) Who knows what Kishimoto has in his mind? Who really? I can't argue with you reasoning, since the all too familiar spiral is prominently featured near the middle of the cover, still I see more to this. Usually we see a character from the nose down when they are crying, or are very mad or very determined. This time I think it's a sign of determination and it also makes Naruto look more mature, firm and... downright cool :D

Hm, yeah, it was one of Naruto's more mature-looking profiles. Good point. But this cover still rocks as far as being the best mature-looking Naruto cover in the whole series for me:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9074/v31ch27601rj3.th.png (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=v31ch27601rj3.png)

That was my comment for that cover in one of my older Ten Comments, as well.


2.) Even as I'm typing this I don't know "why wind" for me. It somehow feels right, whereas water would feel too awkward. Yup, that's right we have a straight up disagreement here :eyeroll Really now, Naruto has never had anything pointing to elements about him, hence Kakashi's comment of him being a "zero", in my eyes, which fits perfectly with the invisible nature of wind! As for a secondary element, hinted by Kakashi, I'd say fire for Naruto's fiery tamperament and his "compatibility" with the Kyuubi. Water is feminine, Fire is masculine, Water is calm and receiving, Fire is raging and giving. Naruto looks and feels like Fire and Wind to me... Shino would make a good candidate for Water :jk

I think you may have misunderstood me... or maybe you meant to say "why water" because I was also advocating wind as a sensible element for Naruto. As for the whole "zero" issue, I already made a response about that:


Hm, I took Kakashi's "zero" comment as meaning that none of the elements really came naturally to Naruto that he used any of them subconsciously and constantly, and that he's extremely raw. With wind manipulation, he'd become an "one." Sasuke is more a "two" because of his Lightning and Fire tendencies. I could be wrong, of course, but Kishimoto is so careful at keeping Naruto as an underdog that I don't think he'll achieve Goku-level powers right away.

As for water, I've always seen it as a sort of reflection of the great endurance and stamina that Naruto possesses: if you went very deep underwater, and had to hold yourself together under intense water pressure, how long could you withstand it? Naruto's willpower is pretty strong that way. But I suppose you could make the same argument about any of the other elements... Naruto could force himself to brace firmly against the strong winds longer than most, endure the hottest fires, and so on... but water just feels more natural to me for Naruto. Especially considering the "whirlpool" imagery that his very name evokes for Japanese readers.

I can see fire as being a major element for Naruto for the reasons you listed, though, but Sasuke already has that. (And it suits him well because his own, personal revenge-inclined fury almost seems to burn hotter than the flames of hell and even the Kyuubi itself...!)


Also, as far as Naruto -the manga- and stealth goes, I think it's nothing like that most of the time... Kishimoto has admited wanting to make a story about a young kind who found a magic book and became a wizard but didn't because of Harry Potter. So, he wrote a story about a young, dumb jinchuuriki who got a scroll and learnt a kinjutsu overnight (never got over that sorry). I think that in Naruto how stealthy one is depends on their tamperament and level. Itachi may be walking around in flamboyant, (possibly) silk, black robes with red clouds and still go by unnoticed should he wish to, through the use of genjutsu. Other people with less apparent skill in stealth can do it with the good ol' writer's trick: Show them facing their goal and then show them having reached that goal, possibly including 1-2 awed characters (teammates or enemies), wondering just how they did it! This way the audience doesn't need to know as well :D But I'm dragging...

I didn't know that Kishimoto wanted to make a Harry Potter-like story, and I'm glad he didn't, because - and no offense to Harry Potter fans - the concept of Naruto is much more unique. "Young wizard" stories are dime a dozen in fantasy literature now (granted, Harry Potter's tale is much better and more imaginative than most), but you hardly ever see "young ninja" stories in the very same genre.

Anyway, the "magician's mysteries" that you're talking here (the magic trick being shown to the audience but without revealing how it was done) is definitely a writer's cop-out and I'm glad Kishimoto doesn't do it too often. He does that a bit with Jiraiya, though, because he's always "scouting" the Akatsuki, and we never see how he does it.

Still, if, say, Itachi is ever stealthy, I still want to know how he did it (genjutsu or otherwise).

But in any event, what I meant there was that I don't see very much of that going on, or even it being suggested. And when we DO see it happen, it's usually failures - for example, Hayate overheard Kabuto and Baku discussing their plan for the attack on Konoha, and got caught. Shikamaru, Neji, Naruto, Chouji, and Kiba all got caught by Kidoumaru's trap. Sai got caught while he snuck up to Sasuke's room.

Heck, even Orochimaru nearly got revealed by the rabbit that his snake swallowed at the bridge. Though I'm sure he wouldn't have cared much. And he also knew instantly that Yamato had reinforcements hiding in the bushes.

But you get what I mean. Mastery of stealth seems something sorely lacking in Naruto's world, and most of the story is centered on fighting face-to-face, which seems kind of weird in a ninja's story.

In my opinion, Kabuto is the ultimate embodiment of what my ideal character would be in a world like Naruto's: he's the only successful nin who is able to constantly fool others with his feigned allegiances, the only one who can walk around without being detected, and he never fights when he doesn't have to - preferring to disappear into the shadows instead.

Sasori is also another character that I considered to be a very good representative through his hidden poisons within his puppets. Heck, he even hid his true self so much that not even the people who worked with or under him knew what he really looked like (Zetsu and Kabuto respectively).

But most of the time, I think Kishimoto just forgets to incorporate that within the good guys.


3.) Those two have demonstrated good teamwork so far and I can only expect MORE from them. As for Yamato's face after Kishimot's whisper... the whole scene reminded me of comic strips in newspapers and crossword magazines! I guess we'll never know what Kakashi told Yamato or what the latter was thinking at that moment his face lit up, but it was worth it, definately a nice moment. For me Kakashi said something along the lines of "Mind showing him?" and Yamato thought either a) "Great! Another chance to show off my skills!!" or b) "Show him? Wow, Kakashi sensei is so smart, why didn't I think of that before?". :D

Yep!


4.) Yeah I told you on MSN but the people here don't know so I'll say it all again. :P This guy can effortlessly make hotels, cliffs, waterfalls and grow dozens of trees with a mere clap of his hands and a mokuton "incantation". Really now, one would expect those jutsu to be quite demanding, unless Yamato is yet another stamina freak, which I doubt. Maybe Kishimoto likes the idea of wonders being (seemingly) magically created and perhaps it's his way of filling Naruto with elements he reserved for this other story of his... still, Yamato makes everythign seem possible in this world of Ninja!! In an instant he could build houses, form parks, make waterfalls, restore destroyed forests, supply Konoha with much needed wood and whatnot... it just seems to be draining of so little chakra!! And yeah, Greenpeace would love him. As for Naruto destroying trees for his training... heh, it's nothing Yamato can't fix with a clap of his hands ;)

True, true, Yamato would have fixed whatever Naruto might have destroyed. Good point. Naruto really didn't need to worry about it at all. Too bad we don't have a Yamato whenever we have forest fires like the ones always going on on the west coast here...


5.) Personally I don't have this part cleared up in my head either... These elemental wheels often seen in RPGs contain different elements a lot of the time and the combinations yield different sub elements and whatnot. In Grandia water and wind make Ice, in a way quite like in Naruto: When you Water skill and you Wind skill reach a certain level a new move or spell is learnt that involves the sub element. However, in Grandia Lightning is the result of Fire and Wind, unlike in Naruto where it's a standalone "basic" element... That's why I can't really say much about the mechanics of chakra at this moment, nor to do I care to, to be frank. The revelations we've come across so far concerning the nature of chakra are enough for me to grasp what's going on, but not enough to allow me the kind of speculation I like, the deep, PhD level Narutologic kind of speculation (to put it in Kadogirl's words :D ). So, let's wait and see what Kishimoto has in store for us ;)

Well, Ayah and I had a talk about that a while ago, and she actually inspired me to think more about the combinations.

We already know that:

Water (?) + Wind (?) = Ice
Water (L) + Earth (R) = Wood

L and R means Right and Left.

Now, what about the following:

Water + Fire ?
Water + Lightning ?

In fact, you could do a chart like this:

--------------(R) Water ----- (R) Wind ----- (R) Earth ----- (R) Lightning ----- (R) Fire -----
(L) Water -- ICE? WOOD! SMOKE?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Wind ---- ICE?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Earth ---- MUD? LAVA?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Lightning -
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Fire ----- SMOKE? LAVA?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heck, it's just fun to let your imagination carry you away. Just guess away.

Also, bear in mind that since Sasuke has Fire and Lightning tendencies, the "jutsu" that he may have been about to do might have actually been a combination of BOTH of these! So start thinking about that one especially, kids... heck if I know what it could have been, though.



6.) Yin and Yang manipulation doesn't seem to fit in with the rest so easily. Dark and Light where not in the "chakra wheel" Kakashi used as an example and from Yamato's tone I gather it's a whole different aspect of chakra manipulation. What I'm sure of is that Yin and Yang are outside the elemental spectrum, though I can't quite guess where they fit in, in Naruto physics... I don't think their manipulation requires a bloodline limit though, but it's still much too early to be reaching conclusions. Hopefully, one of my favorite characters, Shikamaru, will shed some light (or cast a shadow?) upon this matter soon...

Yeah, you may be right there. We'll find out soon enough... I think. Get off your lazy arse and go fight somebody, Shikamaru! XD


7.) Hmm... I can in no way relate Naruto's training to Hajime no Ippo :darn Anything chakra related in Naruto brings Ki or aether (or any of its millions of names) in my mind. I guess it works differently for different people :amuse I'm sure Aikido practitioners would be especially happy with Naruto being a wind type and with this new training, since their training involves a lot around visualizing "ki" as "wind" :amuse (although the "ki" in Aikido is not "sword ki", not meant to cut, rather push, but that's another story :darn )

The only reason I commented about Hajime no Ippo was because the leaf training here reminded me of the leaf training there. How many times have you seen a training exercise in manga involving leaves? I wasn't seriously comparing the two manga, they're in no way similar except when you consider that Ippo and Naruto are both pretty much determined little guys :p

As for Aikido, yeah. Maybe that's going to be incorporated into Naruto's main fighting style? Or maybe it's already has been - we certainly saw some potential when Naruto flipped himself over Sasuke's arm in a recent chapter. It would also definitely fit Naruto's personality, since he doesn't really fight TO beat somebody down, but rather fight FOR somebody's sake, which is what Aikido's all about. Its way is to prevent slaughter - "it is the Art of Peace, the power of love."


8.) Is it Kishimoto speaking through Asuma, or just Asuma expressing himself? More importantly what will be the role of this Shadw Knight in the upcoming events? Shikamaru being a favorite of mine right up there with Neji, I wish him good luck ;) Hopefully we will be seeing more or InoShikaChou, with more of Shikamaru's coordination. Who knows, Shikamaru might have been underestimated even by his sensei! Wielding the secrets of the Nara clan he might even rise to be a jounin, not for his thinking but for his fighting (or heck, both). Ok, I'll shove the fanboy inside me aside and go on to the next (controversial) part...

I'd certainly like to see Shikamaru become a jounin sometimes, and judging from his recent improved "Kagemane" it would seem that he has some very dangerous moves now. Still, I wonder how much of a strain that would be on his chakra. If he ever has to resort to his normal Kagemane moves on any given mission, the odds are still bad against him, even with his strategic mind. If Gai hadn't saved his skin against Gaara in the hospital room, for example, and Asuma against the Sound nins, AND Temari against Tayuya, Shikamaru would have already died in THREE different circumstances! Guess Naruto's luck rubbed off on him...

So if Shikamaru remains a Chuunin examiner the remainder of his life, I wouldn't be surprised, either.


9.) So, just what is going on with Asuma? He's been acting strange these days and now this? Intolerable! He is not permited to die! He should cling to life at least for the sake of a certain girl in the UAE (you spoilt Disney fan you ;)).

Ok, let's view this seriously. *assumes a look that screams "PhD in Narutology"* So, Asuma is playing Shougi with Shikamaru, only going against his habits, choosing a more aggressive playstyle this time around... He starts talking deeply, if but cryptically, to Shikamaru about his plans, seemingly trying to get a piece of his burden off his back. Of course I could be way off :amuse Saying that Shika is a Knight while himself is a sacrificial pawn can have two meanings that I see,
i) Shikamaru will be of higher importace that Asuma in the upcoming events
ii) Asuma will be fighting in the front lines, if not behind enemy lines, whereas Shikamaru will be more concentrated in tactics

...or both could be right :darn The fanboy in me can't let Asuma go that easily and he can't even imagine Shikamaru not reacting to that, supreme IQ and all. Perhaps Shikamaru knows better or he just can't imagine his master dying so easily.

Heh, I'd love to see Shikamaru give Asuma a pep talk... like the one he gave Chouji...!

But see, if we fight, you would probably be stronger - right? I would've probably given up if it was you I was fighting against

I am me, and you are you - just relax alright?"

And Asuma be like, "Hell, you're right! I'm NOT a sacrifical shogi piece!"

XD Just thinking about it makes me laugh...


Just as I'm typing something came to my mind... Asuma's playstyle in shougi was more aggressive and he spoke of sacrifices, perhaps Tsunade's plans involve more aggressive tactics with Asuma being the tip of the spear, risking his life as an "expendable" piece, but not condemned to death whatsoever, rather being up to him and his abilities (or friends/pupils/Dei ex Machina/DZ chan's wrath).

Concerning the "King", my first reaction was "Naruto". Why? If Asuma spoke with his head, then strategically speaking Naruto should be protected at all costs! The Akatsuki must not, under any circumstances get their hands on yet another bijuu! But miliseconds later I thought "Konoha", because if Asuma spoke with his heart, then that should be the meaning of his words. Just like Saru would have said, and just like Naruto will sometime in the future. To be Hokage is to have the power to protect everyone in Konoha and Naruto too will see this someday. Whether Asuma spoke with his head or heart I can't clearly decide, but I lean towards the latter, since he said somethign along the lines of: "You too will understand someday", which seen analytically cannot refer to Naruto since the danger he's facing is imminent. But enough with all that... I've twisted and turned my mind so much, I'm afraid to even speculate on what Ino will wear tomorrow :jk Really now, Kishimoto should have a team of people scanning the various famous forums for ideas and thoughts on his own world... many a time I think that we put more thought on everythign than the author himself :darn

I can see why readers would think "Naruto" immediately since he IS the leading character, but he actually never entered my mind when I saw Asuma say that... *shrugs* Unless it's been revealed that something happened that we didn't know about ( like Sandaime talking to Asuma about Yondaime's hopes that Naruto would somebody be the savior of Konohagakure ) I'll continue to think that Asuma is just adopting his father's love for his village.


10.) One of the good things with being late to comment is that other have commented before you, giving you more views of the same event... My personal view on this is that Naruto has not released his Kage Bunshin no Jutsu yet, the clones have not entered his body yet and that's why only one of the managed this slight slice on one of the leaves and also the reason why Kakashi was surprised. When Naruto absorbs all these Bunshin, we'll probably be in for a treat ;)

I think you and Yume are onto something. At the beginning of the next chapter, Kakashi might then stand up and tell Naruto to dispell all the bunshins, and then he'll immediately be finished with knowing how to effectively slice a leaf in two - hell, he might even know how to do slice a tree trunk in half! We'll see... good thinking though, I hadn't thought about that at all.


As for how long the training will last, I cannot say. Some elements of manga don't always work like math, there's the human factor (or the writer factor) involved as well. Naruto learnt Rasengan in one week using no bunshins. That jutsu took 3 years for Yondaime to make but Naruto managed to learn it in one week. Yes, I'm aware that even now, almost three years later, he can't use an one handed Rasengan and that he was guided throughout, but still you can't suppress three years in one week no matter what. So, I really wander what Naruto will be able to master in a time span of 20 virtual years, which is about... 840 weeks :nuts

We'll see, I guess XD


Ok, that's all, awesome comments as usuall Phil, keep it up! :ossu


Thanks! :)



Mmm... thanks for the comments, GK, they really inspire me to discuss Naruto with you.

But first, I must apologize because I have this extremely uncontrollable urge to express how impatient I'm getting with the pace of these chapters. If we're talking about the 5-star scale like you're using, I'm afraid I could not have given any of these chapters higher than a 3. This one here, although I really want to give it a higher score to make you happy, I'm afraid it just doesn't earn more than a single star. Here's why:

Kishimoto-sensei is spending way too much time with the unimportant stuff. The explanations for elemental combinations is, in my honest opinion, something that could've been taken care of in one panel. Someone as intelligent as Kakashi should've been able to predict Naruto's questions and answered them all in a monologue, without wasting panels (valuable page space) dedicated to nothing but Naruto asking questions. That page space could have easily been spent progressing Naruto's actual training, which I am probably just as excited as you are to see the results of.

Heh, well, I must say that I'm not at all surprised that you feel that way, since you obviously seem to enjoy the quick, almost frantic storytelling pace of One-Piece more. Also I saw somewhere else that you are a fan of Rurouni Kenshin as well, and that's another manga that's pretty fast paced too (loved it too, tho.)

The slower pace of Naruto doesn't really bother me, though, as most other manga are pretty much the same pace. The Japanese aren't ones to hurry, after all... and it even almost feels more at home within a ninja story, especially since "ninja" are a Japanese invention to begin with.

Though, Kishimoto has also revealed himself in a recent interview that he's "already done all that he wanted to do in the series," and is now trying to think of new things to add, including more romance, and that's probably why the pace has slowed even more lately. Which explains why even a lot of diehard fans (including myself) are feeling the same as you lately, I think.

But while I do wish it was a little bit faster, I also don't want Kishimoto to just quit. If patience is a requirement to see Kishimoto dream up more developments in the series, that's ok with me - I love the characters and the story enough that I'm patient and willing to wait to see whatever happens next. I'm addicted. And I love Kishimoto's art style, as well. So...

But yeah, Kishimoto could have covered all of this in much less pages, and there have been other occasions lately that I do feel like he lingers too long on some things. The reason he doesn't is because he's just giving himself more time to think about what else he wants to add to the story, I guess... so I suppose I take all that in consideration when rating his stories, and base my ratings on whether he succeeds or not in keeping my interest alive in checking out the next chapter. He did that this week. He nearly didn't during some chapters in the last storyarc, however... (hence my rating some of THESE ones 2.5 or so...) I likely won't ever rate a Kishimoto chapter a "1" because his art alone is enough for me to enjoy a chapter more than that.


The "Shikamaru is a knight" thing... to be honest I didn't really understand it, but I somehow get the feeling that I'm not supposed to understand it... yet. I think it's still too early to tell where he's going with it (maybe he's not going anywhere at all), so all we really know right now is that Asuma and Shikamaru still have enough free time to play shogi a lot (go on missions, dammit!).

Like I said... Naruto has a Japanese mood XD

OP actually feels VERY American in comparison... no Luffy playing shogi with Zoro anytime soon XD

ibra87
July 25, 2006, 03:00 AM
Good job on the chart GK. But haven't you forgotten Gaara's Wind+Earth? The earth element is obvious, and he comes from the wind country plus that the Shukaku only used Wind jutsus against the Frog Boss. But then again, I don't know if it was a combination?

Gold Knight
July 25, 2006, 03:11 AM
Good job on the chart GK. But haven't you forgotten Gaara's Wind+Earth? The earth element is obvious, and he comes from the wind country plus that the Shukaku only used Wind jutsus against the Frog Boss. But then again, I don't know if it was a combination?


True. And didn't really forget it as much as I just didn't get around to thinking about it; I kinda did that chart in a hurry based on the recent chat Ayah and I had (she's the one who came up with "Lava") - but you're right, it sounds likely. Added:

--------------(R) Water ----- (R) Wind ----- (R) Earth ----- (R) Lightning ----- (R) Fire -----
(L) Water -- ICE? WOOD! SMOKE?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Wind ---- ICE? SAND?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Earth ---- MUD? SAND? LAVA?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Lightning -
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(L) Fire ----- SMOKE? LAVA?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam_xx
July 25, 2006, 03:34 AM
You have time to write that thing every week eh? xP
Well done, interesting as always...
I'm saying 4 or more chapters...
He still has to get to "the real stuff..."
But Kakashi did say that his progress was going fast...
Prove me wrong Kishi! :p

Gold Knight
July 25, 2006, 03:58 AM
You have time to write that thing every week eh? xP

Somehow... XD

The only reason I don't do it for other manga as well is because I know I definitely won't always have time. (Even now, I had time to make that last long post because I'm staying up SO late... )


I'm saying 4 or more chapters...
He still has to get to "the real stuff..."
But Kakashi did say that his progress was going fast...
Prove me wrong Kishi! :p


Actually considering how slow-paced Naruto has been lately, it'd be kind of a relief if it DOES go quickly.

Adam_xx
July 25, 2006, 04:02 AM
The only reason I don't do it for other manga as well is because I know I definitely won't always have time. (Even now, I had time to make that last long post because I'm staying up SO late... )


Yea, but your 10 comments will always work on Naruto best... xD

shinwei
July 25, 2006, 09:27 AM
Like I said... Naruto has a Japanese mood XD

OP actually feels VERY American in comparison... no Luffy playing shogi with Zoro anytime soon XD


MMmm... I don't think I've ever had anyone accuse me of being uncomfortable with a Japanese mood before. Like you know, I'm a big fan of Rurouni Kenshin, I love Blade of the Immortal, and I absolutely adore Lone Wolf and Cub (the samurai manga that started it all). Lone Wolf and Cub is perhaps the most "Japanese"-mooded manga ever made IMO, and it was fantastic.

One Piece is not the only manga that I'm into, it's just my favorite because no other manga has ever made me teary-eyed from purely powerful scenes. IMO it's really easy to get people to cry by killing off a character after allowing readers to get attached to him/her, but it's another thing to make readers cry tears of happiness. One Piece is simply the only manga that has ever done that to me, and not only that, I sometimes have become teary-eyed just because Luffy or Zoro said something insanely cool and inspiring.

I don't remember if it was Kishimoto or somebody else, but I remember there was an interview near the beginning of Naruto where the person being interviewed clearly stated that he originally wanted to do a samurai manga but decided not to because he could not compete with Rurouni Kenshin and Blade of the Immortal out on the market.

I'm also a big fan of Hikaru no Go. I play go all the time and I also occasionally play xiangqi (the REAL shogi xP). So I'm not at all confused by what they're playing. I also slightly feel that it's because I understand the game as well as I do that I don't feel their conversation is anything special. It almost seems as if Kishimoto-sensei is taking desperate measures to make readers feel that his manga is deeper and more "mysterious", while he is, like you said, still unable to come up with a real coherent storyline to follow.

Gold Knight
July 25, 2006, 12:51 PM
Hey hey... a lot of people still like Naruto better, so he must be doing something right.

I think it's 'cause Kishimoto's created such an enduring mythology and ensemble that he can work with. And his storyline isn't as incoherent as much as he just improvises on the spot, kinda like the main character himself. (Interesting that the writing is almost Naruto-like, then!)

Kishimoto did say that he knows how it will all end, but I'm sure he doesn't want to do that right away.

shinwei
July 25, 2006, 01:41 PM
Hey man, this may come as a surprise to you but believe me when I say that I like Naruto too. The main thing I love about Naruto is the concept - the way he reinvented Ninjas is definitely one of the more creative things to happen to manga in recent years. I think it's awesome.

It's just that I feel extremely let-down and disappointed that he's not milking such an awesome concept to its full potential. From a creative standpoint, the possibilities are unlimited, but instead he did not capitalize and now for some reason he's out of gas. That's where most of my frustration comes from. Naruto could be sooooooooooooo much better, but it's not.

Just out of curiosity, would you happen to know who the assistants he has working for him are? Because I really feel that he should hire a good one with lots of ideas to turn the manga around to live up to the potential. I mean, just look at what Oda did for Nobuhiro-sensei in RK!

Gold Knight
July 25, 2006, 04:23 PM
There are some who say Oda should be more credited for the success of RK, actually... but that's kinda getting off-topic. But I won't deny that Oda has a wonderfully imaginative spirit. He's the Dr. Seuss of manga, it seems.

Kishimoto's assistants:

Kazuhiro Takuhashi - Focuses on solid blacks in hair and clothing, fills in the half-tone areas and completes the background art.

Osamu Kazisa - Works similar to Takuhashi, also good at creating speedlines, special effects and plant-life.

Mikio Ikemoto - Works on crowds and background figures, also adds white to speed lines, characters eyes and highlights. Also cleans up the page by whiting out any art which goes out of the panel. Also adds in half-tones.

Takemi Kawahara - Has a hand in most everything in the drawing process.

Likely Kishimoto is the main brainstormer, and I agree, he might want to consider bringing somebody else on board who could help with ideas, etc. besides his editor.

ibra87
July 27, 2006, 08:58 AM
Just finished reading 317. It's already been 2 chapters, and he hasn't learned how to cut a leaf. Guess it's 6+ chapters :D

Oh and now we know the real name of Yamato. Looks forward to 317 comments

Gold Knight
July 27, 2006, 02:01 PM
It may be tomorrow rather than tonight, today I'm busy with moving, unfortunately. I'll be sure to comment ASAP as 317 was definitely a cool chapter.

ibra87
July 27, 2006, 02:36 PM
It may be tomorrow rather than tonight, today I'm busy with moving, unfortunately. I'll be sure to comment ASAP as 317 was definitely a cool chapter.

Well then, take your time. Moving is much more important than commenting here so we'll just wait patiently.

Anax
July 27, 2006, 07:26 PM
:blink I just saw a missing post... mine! I pains me to say this but last night it seems I let my father use the computer forgeting to press post (after so many reviews of the post itself) so it's gone now :darn

Of all the things I remember here's the most important:
I think you may have misunderstood me... or maybe you meant to say "why water" because I was also advocating wind as a sensible element for Naruto.

Perhaps I could have worded it better. First I said I didn't know "why wind" for me, I couldn't, somehow, justify it, so I said I didn't know. As for our disagreement, that lies in water being the secondary element, since Naruto doesn't see in anyway related to water, although I could say the same about Kisame despite his looks. I mean, Kisame is rash, brash and unrefined like fire types but still he's a sharky... Still it wouldn't go well with Kyuubi don't you think? Naruto having the opposite chakra type of the Kyuubi, even for a secondary type? At least Wind and Fire seem to get along well...

As for the rest of the in depth reply to you in depth reply... I have forgotten most of it and don't feel like it's coming back to me... ouch :darn

Mental note: Next time, be more careful for everyone's sake...

Gold Knight
July 27, 2006, 09:40 PM
Always save your long posts in Wordpad, Anax! ALWAYS!!! XD

I'm still working on the 317 Comments. Definitely won't be out until tomorrow, especially as I just realized there's 20 pages in this chapter, and I practically have something to say about each page!