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fallou
July 14, 2008, 07:00 AM
What's haki for, besides making weaker people faint? It's safe to say it has other uses: what could they be? Will it be something every strong fighter will have from now on?
You can come up with any idea that crosses your mind though. No need for facts, evidences and such things;) :be imaginative!!!

As a start: incapacitating a df user for a short time? Would come in handy against a logia

Akainu
July 14, 2008, 07:35 AM
logia maybe, paramecians don't seem to be affected. or all that matters is strength. in that case fights like the one to get out of the auction house wouldn't be necessary anymore.
--> more real fight and faster story progress? or perhaps scaring sea kings away ^^

kaizokumarcee
July 14, 2008, 07:46 AM
Clearing weaklings away. Like rankless marines and pirate underlings. To avoid what happened in Enies Lobby where they had to go through all those weak marines.

fallou
July 14, 2008, 08:06 AM
When wb and shanks almost fought or almost fought, there was thunder in the sky coming behind the both of them and clashing. This might be due to haki. Maybe the one with the strongest spirit can take the upper hand in a "monster fight" like this. Maybe at a certain level, it becomes harder to win a fight (like at yonkou level), and haki is the way to do it.

Raysen_ht
July 14, 2008, 08:16 AM
Maybe Haki was discovered by Gol D Roger, and he taught his crew how to use it... until now, only guys who were on his ship used it... (Shanks, reylegh) i dont think WB used it against Shanks...

And since everybody sais Luffi is so much like Roger, he is discovering how to use it by himself also...

About the ways to use it...
Imo opinion is something u have to defend against while fighting, something that drains the opponent strenght faster, and allow u to maximaze the potencial of ur attacks

Razh
July 14, 2008, 09:38 AM
When wb and shanks almost fought or almost fought, there was thunder in the sky coming behind the both of them and clashing. This might be due to haki. Maybe the one with the strongest spirit can take the upper hand in a "monster fight" like this. Maybe at a certain level, it becomes harder to win a fight (like at yonkou level), and haki is the way to do it.

That wasn't a thunder. That was the split between the clouds, caused by the raw strenght of their clash. It's no different than Zoro being able to attack from a distance or make a hole in the wall.

Fox666
July 14, 2008, 02:32 PM
Maybe Haki was discovered by Gol D Roger, and he taught his crew how to use it... until now, only guys who were on his ship used it... (Shanks, reylegh) i dont think WB used it against Shanks...

And since everybody sais Luffi is so much like Roger, he is discovering how to use it by himself also...

About the ways to use it...
Imo opinion is something u have to defend against while fighting, something that drains the opponent strenght faster, and allow u to maximaze the potencial of ur attacksDuring the fight beetween Zoro and Kaku, Kaku said something about Zoro's "spiritual power"/"aura" or something else, I am not sure if it would be the haki.

bittman
July 14, 2008, 08:46 PM
Gol D. Roger wasn't the first strong guy ever. Next you'll be saying he was the first to find devil fruits ~_~

On topic: I believe Haki is just a technique of a person's spirit. It wouldn't be used alongside attacks, though a person's spirit (always) is in the form of their own techniques. Example: Zoro's Asura is the manifestation of his powerful spirit and rage, but he can't use Haki (yet).

kkck
July 14, 2008, 09:41 PM
I think haki will have the same standart properties as in regular manga, although I dont expect characters to start shoting kamehameha's or rasengans. I think it will be used mostly to show how powerful a character is and to enhance the strength/speed of characters that can use it.

JC123
July 14, 2008, 09:50 PM
I see it more as a way to show a strong character. Though the SHs don't necessarily have strong spirit strength yet, at least Zoro and Luffy have that kind of baka strength.

Maybe it's similar to "Gaijin Power" (http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher16.html)

;)

RichardMNixon
July 14, 2008, 11:04 PM
People have asked how someone like Shanks could beat someone like Crocodile. Shanks is obviously stronger, but if a sword just goes through Crocodile, what is Shanks to do? I think with enough Haki (I think of it as willpower) behind it, he could cut Crocodile, just like him and WB split the sky.

hot_chips
July 15, 2008, 01:14 AM
Haki is spirit or will power, in no way is it related to physical strength.
Haki can knock out weaker pirates/marines because they don't have any spirit or will power.

neomaster121
July 15, 2008, 02:09 AM
Zoro will probally develop a haki of his own. or maybe he was first to harnest it. With the end of the tb arc i wouldn't be surprised if Zoro soon pulls out the knock out haki, as im sure mi hawk has the same sort of skill.

Plus all haki seems to be for is to knock out the usless weaklings making life easier when it comes to escaping

mdl112233
July 15, 2008, 03:06 AM
luffy already kinda used haki on duval's Motobaro in chapter 495 pg.16

kaizokumarcee
July 15, 2008, 07:26 AM
I think this haki thing is not some sort of power or something. It's just a person's strong spirit affecting another. I'm really not hoping that they will get strong this way.

sharingan_kakashi
July 15, 2008, 10:37 AM
I think Haki is something you acquire though battle experience. Kinda like threat. Its like making angry eyes but the effects cna be controlled. I DONT think not want Haki to be some kind of power, its just a trinket used by strong guys to show dominance, will power etc.

But i still want the SH to be able to do this eventually.

noonethere
July 15, 2008, 10:44 AM
Maybe Haki is what make the Vivre card work.(This would explain why the SH started developing Haki as they approach the New world. It may also be possible that DF abilities is related to Haki.
It is also possible that different persons expresses their Haki differently depending on different factors such as personality and emotions. Possible different ways the SH may have accidentally used Haki would be Zorro producing illusions with his spirit(during asura) and fire(to purify Ryuma), Sanji exploding with anger(when he knew Nami was kidnapped) and Ussop causing Perona to faint (maybe Haki cause the bluff to be more effective). If I was to extrapolate from this hypothesis, I'd say someone with a cold nature(like Robin) would cause others to feel cold or someone caring(like Chopper) would enhance the regeneation ability of others.(Of course all this is pure speculation)

kuriorisu
July 19, 2008, 03:23 PM
Maybe Haki is what make the Vivre card work.(This would explain why the SH started developing Haki as they approach the New world. It may also be possible that DF abilities is related to Haki.
It is also possible that different persons expresses their Haki differently depending on different factors such as personality and emotions. Possible different ways the SH may have accidentally used Haki would be Zorro producing illusions with his spirit(during asura) and fire(to purify Ryuma), Sanji exploding with anger(when he knew Nami was kidnapped) and Ussop causing Perona to faint (maybe Haki cause the bluff to be more effective). If I was to extrapolate from this hypothesis, I'd say someone with a cold nature(like Robin) would cause others to feel cold or someone caring(like Chopper) would enhance the regeneation ability of others.(Of course all this is pure speculation)

lol haki is when Luffy levelled up, because he's stronger he lets off this aura, and the aura changes when his mood changes. So basically its what sharingan said just the post above you "its just a trinket used by strong guys to show dominance, will power etc." Killing Intent!

BlackHair
August 23, 2008, 07:32 AM
We have over 500+ chapter of OP and "haki" was only used 3 times, where we can tell for sure.

I think ppl r over treating haki. I believe it is just an outburst of spiritual energy, whereupon u can determine someone's strength. Experienced and strong fighter r able to control their outburst, from low to max. Inexperienced and weak guys (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/05/), will prop fain under pressure, since they cant handle too much of that energy. Therefore haki can't be used on opponent of ur lvl, experienced and strong fighter (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/12/) or on stronger ones (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/06-07/), just on cannon fodder (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/18-19/).

I base this on other popular shounen series, like Bleachs "reaitsu", DBs "ki" or HxHs "hen". Narutos "chakra" is different tho.
All these series have one thing in common: that "chi" thing can't be used as weapon on strong opponents of ur lvl or above. Any character of these series, who r strong and experienced r able to produce an outburst. It is also the source of their energy, means if they are exhausted from w.e reason, they cant produce a strong "chi".

I know, it doesn't have to be same in op, but since Oda said in his interview he is a fan of Akiras Dragonball, I do believe it has the same function as I explained. They also did a chapter together, Cross Epoch (http://www.onemanga.com/Cross_Epoch/0/01-02/).

In Naruto "chakra" was only shown as inner energy, to cast jutsu. It was never said u can let weak ppl faint with high chakra. Some ppl r able to detect chakra, but that's not the same as I explained earlier.
In the real world i.e our world xD, it is ur energy which keeps u moving. If the inner energy is consumed, u can't move anymore or at least at top speed and u have to take break to rest and recharge ur energy.

Actually, imo it is just for show. It doesn't have any big impact in a fight, since it cant be used on strong opponents. U r only able to use that on cannon fodder, i.e imo just for show.

sry, my mistake. Had no idea that there was already a thread around.

regards

Trafalgar Law
August 23, 2008, 01:55 PM
I've been clinging to a theory that 'Haki', is just one way to use your 'spirit':
To overwhelm cannonfodder. But then there might be other uses for the 'spirit',
like an aura or focusing power into a specific part of your body.

Much like with rokushiki, haki might just be a sub-technique like geppou or shigan...

hyper_megaman
August 28, 2008, 10:13 AM
literally, haki just means killing aura

a translation would be killing intent.

if a guy walks into a room, with his mind already set to kill another guy, i.e. for revenge for killing his parents, and he's not afraid of death

then you notice his frown, his steady eyes and his fearless expression

you go 'wow, he has strong haki' (killing intent)

it's nothing spiritual or some power you turn on or off, it's basically confidence, fearlessness, and steady intent to cause harm that overpowers your opponent psychologically

maybe oda will play this phrase to a pun, but basically, so far, that's all we've seen. there's nothing mystical about it.

kkck
August 28, 2008, 10:40 AM
I dont think you can frown people to uncounciousness, lol, the way haki has been portrayed makes it look like there is a lot more to it. Personaly I think zoro uses his haki when he uses asura, and if he indeed does, then I don think he pulls it of by frowning his oponents lol.

Akainu
August 28, 2008, 11:06 AM
took a while to search, but here it is:
shredlords translation of haki (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=993969#post993969)

thus I wouldn't equate aura and killing intent. while the first is something that is mostly defined as something other people can feel or even see (e.g. zoro if we want to add him to this category, but on a wider view in other mangas like DBZ and so on) the latter is something inside you that others only see if you show it in your facial expression or gesture - these were never shown here.

hyper_megaman
August 28, 2008, 11:21 AM
oh 覇気

got the wrong ha there

覇 means tyrant/tyrannic, so yea, it's a tyrannic aura of sorts, striving to overpower
[hr]

I dont think you can frown people to uncounciousness, lol, the way haki has been portrayed makes it look like there is a lot more to it. Personaly I think zoro uses his haki when he uses asura, and if he indeed does, then I don think he pulls it of by frowning his oponents lol.

like i said, it hasn't been explained to the letter yet, and as far as we've seen oda go, he does tend to exaggerate on meanings.

this haki they had could be a tyrannic aura the guy is emitting, strutting and looking fearless and confident, giving a psychological superiority to the people who see him, making them quiver and quake in their boots, and shake at the very sight of him, to the level where they fear him so much they faint from the stress.

what oda's drawn could also be a mystical energy, aka a delibrate pun and twisting exaggeration on the phrase's otherwise literal 'psychological edge' meaning, turning it into a skill to consciously turn on/off like pikachu's thunderbolt, but as of now it hasn't left the 'possible exaggeration in expression of original meaning' scale yet..

so that's what i mean, until he crosses the line to make the literal application technically impossible, it's still a possibility imo

that's just my opinion, cuz things actually mean different things when you are not reading it as a foreign language, some things are more natural and subtle if you get what i mean

i.e. in english, you go 'captain jack sparrow stared back at the angry mob with a straight face, a face without fear, and he eventually overcame them with his amazing fearlessness'
if you were to translate it to another language, i.e. chinese, you go '杰克船长一动都不动,就以那无表情的脸瞪着他们,终于靠他的Amazing fearlessness把他们给吓跑了'

it works both ways, when you single out a phrase like that, if i were a chinese guy lacking english practice i'd assume it was a name of a move called 'Amazing Fearlessness', instead of just a description in the original context


well it's just imo, it could be oda's exaggeration on expressing of the literal meaning, or it could be a new move like you guys said. either way i can't wait :D

sharingan_kakashi
August 30, 2008, 12:14 PM
i went to babel fish for a "rough translation and i got:
覇気 means Ambition,
Similar to what ShredLord said.

i wen and sprit the chracters and i got:
覇 means Supremacy
気 means Air

Completely different from the meaning above.

We can only take a stab as to what direction Oda is willing to take this Haki of his. WHatever it is I know Oda will not disappoint.

kkck
August 30, 2008, 01:01 PM
I would be happy if the answer to logia's is haki, it would mean a major boost for strawhats plus no more running from all those overpowered marines. It would also mean that luffy could get a logia user into his crew, and still be stronger than said logia without using any particular weakness.
I wouldnt like to see this manga turn into DBZ though, the moment luffy uses a spirit bomb, I will probably quit reading the manga lol.

RichardMNixon
August 30, 2008, 10:17 PM
I still believe what I said in my earlier post, that haki can cut things that can't be cut like WB and shanks cutting the sky. Note that Rayleigh was able to cut Kizaru, the latter is bleeding from his cheek.

BlackHair
September 03, 2008, 01:01 AM
I still believe what I said in my earlier post, that haki can cut things that can be cut like WB and shanks cutting the sky. Note that Rayleigh was able to cut Kizaru, the latter is bleeding from his cheek.The clouds were split in half due to clash of the swords. Oda was trying to show the level of the top dogs of the world. I dont think it is related to haki. Also there can be many reasons why Kiz was bleeding, such as seastone sword. btw Kiz light sword isn't part of his body, so it doesn't have to vanish if its touches seastone.

Like alwasys, no clear fact.. just my opinion on this.

And now thinking on BB: What makes is fruit unique? the ability to nullify other DF user and even though he is a logia himself, he has a all time physical body. Now why should some1 like BB who seems to be strong and experienced should go after a fruit like that, if he prop can already control haki? I guess haki wont nullify the logia, thats why xD

Akainu
September 03, 2008, 03:14 AM
who ever said that haki "nullifies" logia (or DF in general)?
as far as I know about this haki makes you able to "touch" and thus "stop" logias, who usally by definition are untouchable.
bout BB I don't think he cares much about spirit and controlling it since he was the one believing in fate and stuff, but that might just be a feeling from my point of view...

BlackHair
September 03, 2008, 04:29 AM
who ever said that haki "nullifies" logia (or DF in general)?
as far as I know about this haki makes you able to "touch" and thus "stop" logias, who usally by definition are untouchable.
Actually, that was what I meant by "nullify" the logia ability. Many supported the idea that with haki u can hit the physical body of a logia user. Since this is an important ability of mostly every logia user, I described it as nullify, when u r not able to use that.. didn't meant DF in general.

Of course, Im assuming BB is able to use haki, since I believe he is on yonkou/admiral lvl we can except that much. I have no reference for that, it is just a theory of mine.

Oblivion
September 06, 2008, 07:51 AM
if one can nullify logia's ability with haki, then BB devil fruit and its anyti devilfruit wont be that awesome. even Ace was surprised by BB's power, and he is someguy who would have already fought against haki user and could deal with it.

i think haki is something diffrent then reilaighs logia stopping ability.

Sachsenhesse
September 10, 2008, 09:56 AM
I bet everything that haki is that power zoro has received against mr. 1.

why?


http://38.106.107.18/Manga/One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20507/compressed/33742_717640.jpg

"he had the power to hear everything" reminds me someway of:

http://38.106.106.218/Manga/One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20195/compressed/19140_423899.jpg

where zoro hears the breath of the things around him, we all know whats happening after that, he cut through steel, a ability given by a devilfruit, the specialcase is he couldnt win with his fuillstrength but after he hears his voice... the devilfruit was nullyfied


i think oda wants us to believe that haki is the power ruffy has used against the giantbison of duval, but we all know too that oda does everything else as that we are thinking =D

so i come to my believes, that haki is just to hear the voice of things, like zoro already did

my 5 cents :D

kkck
September 10, 2008, 01:07 PM
if one can nullify logia's ability with haki, then BB devil fruit and its anyti devilfruit wont be that awesome. even Ace was surprised by BB's power, and he is someguy who would have already fought against haki user and could deal with it.

i think haki is something diffrent then reilaighs logia stopping ability.

I think it would still be awesome because haki would only allow you to hurt a logia (hypotheticaly), while BB fruit allows you to cancel all of the logia abilities. I think there is a big diference between the two.

sharingan_kakashi
September 10, 2008, 09:53 PM
I
"he had the power to hear everything" reminds me someway of:

http://38.106.106.218/Manga/One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20195/compressed/19140_423899.jpg

where zoro hears the breath of the things around him, we all know whats happening after that, he cut through steel, a ability given by a devilfruit, the specialcase is he couldnt win with his fuillstrength but after he hears his voice... the devilfruit was nullyfied


Now, when you mentioned this power to "hear everything" i remembered Rayleigh saying that Captain Roger had that ability. Now, Roger's was probably more developed than Zoro's but it might be related.

Yans86
September 11, 2008, 02:25 AM
I dont think you can frown people to uncounciousness....

Oh yes, u can,if u where put in a cage with Mike Tyson under cocaine and ready to kill u....don't u think that u r going to fell uncoscious before even try to defend???and this can be applied in front of an animal like a lion,a tiger or others like these....can be applied in a fight in front of really strong opponent....let's say that I want to practice Karate,one day for casualty I have to fight a strong opponent.....ok I face him....after 2 second I notice that he is far beyond everything I ever seen...let's say Bruce Lee level,and he don't want to fight,he want to kill me,and I can't flee or react physically cause is to overwhelming....what do u think is going to happen???I probably fall uncosciouness or my mind is going to turn mad......

shredlord
September 11, 2008, 07:53 AM
Actually, there are even techniques in, as far as I can remember, okinawan karate, where people are being weakened just by the subtle body language of the karateka, to a point where they back off or even cannot move.

However, since the actual word of 覇気 was only used once in the whole manga, I'd be careful to read to much into it. Even in Japan, people discuss what 覇気 exactly is. Perhaps it's only a word for an, at that point, given action, which never appears again.

覇気 itself is too vague, meaning "leadership spirit" (taking each kanji individual) or "ambition"/"aspiration" (taking both in ON-reading).

Some people, reading only the english version "haki", confuse it with "haki suru", 破棄する, which means "breaking (like, a contract)" or "destroying".

Actually, I've seen some OP fori in Japan where they discussed about the meaning of 覇気, so though they have the "mother tongue aspect", they seem to know as much as we do.


The clouds were split in half due to clash of the swords. Oda was trying to show the level of the top dogs of the world. I dont think it is related to haki. Also there can be many reasons why Kiz was bleeding, such as seastone sword. btw Kiz light sword isn't part of his body, so it doesn't have to vanish if its touches seastone.

Hmm... I'm not so sure about that, i.e., the splitting sky and haki being different things... in my opinion, it both comes from the same thing, that is, people like Shanks, WB and Ray being powerful enough to manipulate things by willpower.

But how can we know... Oda keeps us waiting. ^_^

BlackHair
September 11, 2008, 02:51 PM
I think it would still be awesome because haki would only allow you to hurt a logia (hypotheticaly), while BB fruit allows you to cancel all of the logia abilities. I think there is a big difference between the two.
Well, so far as I understood, some ppl are assuming with haki u are able to nullify one of the logia ability i.g turning into their element.

A man like Shanks, who is able to use haki, acknowledged BB as being strong. BB was even able to hurt Shanks (I know we don't know exactly what happened, but since Shanks said he wasn't careless, I guess BB is strong). That's why I'm assuming a man of his calibre can use haki as well. If haki is rly able to nullify one of the logias best advantage, then imo BB wasted time searching for his fruit. He can only nullify the DF completely if he touches the body directly. But with haki, as ppl assuming, u don't need to touch the body, just being nearby is fine. His other ability to suck everything in is a good power, but he has a all time physical body. He could have searched for a better logia wherewith u can change ur body into a element form. Imo haki is better than BB fruit, if that should be correct.

I don't think BB would go through trouble searching for the darkness fruit. if haki was able to turn logia into their physical body.


I bet everything that haki is that power zoro has received against mr. 1.
why?
http://38.106.107.18/Manga/One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20507/compressed/33742_717640.jpg

"he had the power to hear everything" reminds me someway of:

http://38.106.106.218/Manga/One%20Piece/One%20Piece%20195/compressed/19140_423899.jpg
Now, when you mentioned this power to "hear everything" i remembered Rayleigh saying that Captain Roger had that ability. Now, Roger's was probably more developed than Zoro's but it might be related.If u read the panel before, Ray is talking about Dr.Clover. So I guess by "He" it is referred to Clover and not Roger. "He had the power to hear everything", sound to me like Clover was all knowing.

Yans86, dude nice post. I was laughing since Tyson xD

shredlord, thx for informing us. Seems like Oda confuses even Japanese speaking ppl. That' somehow funny.

Im still convinced with my theory, which I posted earlier. Like everyone else, I don't have clear facts.

GeckoMoria
September 13, 2008, 10:44 PM
my theory: haki doesnt nullify df powers or anything like that but what it does is change your attack from a physical one to a spiritual one. Logias coudnt get hit by physical attacks but no one ever said spiritual attacks wouldnt work. i mean remember how some ppl would faint from haki and others wouldnt? i think thats because haki is like an attack on a persons spirit so if they have a weak spirit they faint and if not they can take it. Basicially df powers still work against haki users its just that haki users can change the properties of their attacks from physical to spiritual. (my 2 cents) and about BB i think he wanted that fruit because it could completely nullify all df powers which screws most df users lol.

dsr
September 15, 2008, 01:44 PM
With Haki Shanks was able to crack part of WB's ship during their meeting.
Too lazy to check the page, but it happens both in the manga and in the anime.

Razh
September 19, 2008, 12:12 PM
If u read the panel before, Ray is talking about Dr.Clover. So I guess by "He" it is referred to Clover and not Roger. "He had the power to hear everything", sound to me like Clover was all knowing.


Context is important. Robin was asking about poneglyph writing on Skypiea by Roger. Rayleigh was reffering to Roger. He even said that they were mere pirates and couldn't compare to Clover and other scholars. "To hear everything" in that context clearly indicates Roger.

kkck
September 22, 2008, 04:56 PM
Maybe silver cutting kizaru is the same as when garp punched luffy. Maybe haki doesnt specificaly allows you to hurt logia but instead allows you to cause damage to the one you attack by ignoring special physical caracteristic, or something like that.


Post's moved.

RichardMNixon
September 25, 2008, 10:26 AM
I had always wondered why Shanks' crew seemed to have so many guns despite the overall uselessness of guns throughout the series. Maybe they fire haki bullets?

Yans86
September 25, 2008, 12:54 PM
Haki and DF powers can simply be compare to HUnterxHunter and spiritual power in there...

musashi_miya
September 25, 2008, 02:44 PM
Well, this post is not really about the uses of Haki itself, but I thought I would share a possibly interesting piece of info. It could have been mentioned before in the forum though.
The word 'Haki' was used way back in the Jaya arc. In the anime episode 151, you see Blackbeard saying after the "Aano haki de saanzemmaan waa..." (which means something like "With that haki, I thought there was no way this guy is worth 30 million, but ..."). This means that Luffy had some sort of haki since a long time.

Akainu
September 25, 2008, 03:20 PM
ty,
or it means that he had no or not very much haki (or too much for that little bounty? *confused*) however it seems other people can sense hakiif that is true?

kkck
September 25, 2008, 04:57 PM
I had always wondered why Shanks' crew seemed to have so many guns despite the overall uselessness of guns throughout the series. Maybe they fire haki bullets?

Hopefully that is posible, I would love to see ussop using haki stars. He is by no means my favorite strawhat, pirate or even character, but doing that would earn him a couple of points in my book.

ckkdlek
September 25, 2008, 07:25 PM
haki might not be a way to affect a logia user thou... rayleigh is considered 'dark king' and kizaru's ability is light. maybe it is a coincidence with the whole dark and light thing and rayleigh can only hurt kizaru... rather, haki might just be an ability to scare people off and nthing to do with affecting logia

musashi_miya
September 26, 2008, 11:01 AM
or it means that he had no or not very much haki (or too much for that little bounty? *confused*)

The sentence as it appeared in the anime's translation was "I thought 30 million was too low for a kid of that ambition... But this much..." (The context of the sentence is after he sees Luffy's 100 million bounty poster). Given the well-known 'mistranslation' of 'haki' to mean 'ambition', I think it's clear that he means to say that Luffy has got much more haki than his bounty suggests.

GeckoMoria
September 27, 2008, 12:34 PM
Well, so far as I understood, some ppl are assuming with haki u are able to nullify one of the logia ability i.g turning into their element.

A man like Shanks, who is able to use haki, acknowledged BB as being strong. BB was even able to hurt Shanks (I know we don't know exactly what happened, but since Shanks said he wasn't careless, I guess BB is strong). That's why I'm assuming a man of his calibre can use haki as well. If haki is rly able to nullify one of the logias best advantage, then imo BB wasted time searching for his fruit. He can only nullify the DF completely if he touches the body directly. But with haki, as ppl assuming, u don't need to touch the body, just being nearby is fine. His other ability to suck everything in is a good power, but he has a all time physical body. He could have searched for a better logia wherewith u can change ur body into a element form. Imo haki is better than BB fruit, if that should be correct.

I don't think BB would go through trouble searching for the darkness fruit. if haki was able to turn logia into their physical body.


u have a point but heres mine... because BB is as strong as u said then yes he definitely knows about haki and because he knows about it he probably realized that with haki the "logia turning into their element" ability would seem pretty useless. So im guessing BB searched for the darkness fruit because it is the only logia without that ability but instead replaces that power with the ability to seal other DF powers. BB definitely made the smartest choice on what DF to get because a fruit like that goes great with a guy strong enough to injure serious shanks.

also remember what i said earlier about how logias cant be hit by physical attacks but its never mentioned that they cant be hit by spiritual ones.

neomaster121
September 27, 2008, 05:14 PM
Maybe silver cutting kizaru is the same as when garp punched luffy. Maybe haki doesnt specificaly allows you to hurt logia but instead allows you to cause damage to the one you attack by ignoring special physical caracteristic, or something like that.

this latest chapter further prooves that haki maybe the key to increasing power


Post's moved.

kkck
September 28, 2008, 08:09 PM
remember all those chapters back when mihawk cut that boat with just a swing of his sword? I get the feeling that he did that by putting haki in his sword like margaret does on her arrows.


Post's moved.

paradoxe
September 29, 2008, 08:39 AM
Or maybe it was just pure strength, like how Kaku cut the Tower at Enies Lobby in half.


Post's moved.

kkck
September 29, 2008, 10:31 AM
Kaku cutted the tower with his ryankayu (spelling??), it wasnt pure strenth(although it might require quite a bit of it).

Razh
September 29, 2008, 11:20 AM
Rankyaku.

Mihawk's cutting doesn't necessarily have to be Haki powered. Zoro is able to cut through walls from distance, and Ryuuma was able too, besides piercing wholes.
Mihawk could just be at a higher level, since he is #1 swordsman in the world. I'm not saying that Mihawk isn't able of something like that. I'm just saying that he probably didn't use it in cutting up Krieg's ship, since he obviously did it quite effortlessly.
Can you imagine what he can do when he gets serious?:o

kkck
September 29, 2008, 01:59 PM
Rankyaku.

Mihawk's cutting doesn't necessarily have to be Haki powered. Zoro is able to cut through walls from distance, and Ryuuma was able too, besides piercing wholes.
Mihawk could just be at a higher level, since he is #1 swordsman in the world. I'm not saying that Mihawk isn't able of something like that. I'm just saying that he probably didn't use it in cutting up Krieg's ship, since he obviously did it quite effortlessly.
Can you imagine what he can do when he gets serious?:o

I just said it as a posibility. IDK why but I think haki is at the very least standard in the new world.
Mihawk did cut the ship quite effortlessly but that could be attributed to him using haki. Margaret didnt seem to be making an effort when she fired those haki infused arrows.
guess we will find out about all thi stuff in a near future.

k-dom
September 29, 2008, 02:06 PM
Concerning Margareth arrows : I have the feeling, that the haki is a remanent force. It would a huge step for the SH, since all of them could benefit from this new power and not only the monster trio

bittman
September 29, 2008, 06:26 PM
Surely you did not just add Ussop to that "all of them could benefit" line right? If he gets Haki I'll lose respect for the crazy coward. Since to me, Haki is impressing your will into something/someone. USSOP HAS NO WILLPOWER! And that's why I love him.

kkck
September 29, 2008, 08:49 PM
Even though I hate ussop and if he died I would think the manga just improved 150%, I have always granted him willpower. Ussop is constantly scarred of fighting and in most situations he takes a severe beating (fout ton bat, exploding ghosts), and yet he stands up almost like if nothing happened and keeps fighting. IMO there is no way in hell he could take that kind of beatings on regular basis and get up with no willpower. ALso courage does not mean one is never afraid, courage means that you are afraid of doing something and yet, you do it. The way I see it ussop in his own way has a lot of courage and will power.

Razh
September 30, 2008, 08:09 AM
He did whitstand Rayleigh's aura in the auction house.

bittman
September 30, 2008, 08:57 PM
So did un-named Trafalgar Law pirate #4.

Sorry, back to willpower. Ussop may have some willpower, but he is never able to impress that onto his enemies unless they believe his outrageous lies. If lying power could be transferred to Haki, sure. The main point is, I don't want Ussop to be a force of destruction (SH already have the monster trio) or a person with magical powers (as Margerette and [spoiler] have demonstrated).

We already have more than enough hints that Ussop will never power-up significantly but merely get better weapons.

kkck
September 30, 2008, 11:17 PM
While I agree in that ussop will never become a force of destruction like the monster trio, I do think his fighting stile should evolve. The second half of the grand line is going to have oponents who are going to be a lot stronger, and as time goes by, it is less likely that his oponents will fall for his lies and tricks. Also even though ussop is not part of the monster trio, he is one of the crew's main fighters since he is the sniper. He should at the very least be as good as BB sniper guy. I dont remember his name.

the12thsupernova
October 23, 2008, 05:35 PM
it seems alot of people are confused as to what exactly Haki is. I used to be confused until i read this....(hope this helps out)


To the western world Haki is something that's not properly understood, even in this thread. Simply because there's no single word that describes Haki well enough. But to us East Asians, Japanese and Chinese, the words Haki is an instantly understood term. It is a term that is Asian in origin and loosely phrased and understood in the Western world.

What Haki really is and means:

The words Ha and Ki, meaning 'dominate' and 'air'. Together you can make out something like 'air of dominance/atmosphere of fear' or better phrased, 'Aura of dominance/supremacy' or 'Aura of fear/terror'.

You can't really train yourself to just have Haki, it does not happen by itself or just suddenly. When you train yourself to become stronger or over time have attained some form of aggression, Haki will come along. It is something that builds up over experience and time and can be activated at will. But it can also be something that happens involutarily, examples of Haki in various forms:

A large wrestler say, 'The Rock'. If you, as a normal person stands in the ring and he is about to charge towards you, or just staring hard at you, you will be pretty much in fear. But once he puts on some clothes and goes off stage and becomes friendly, even the kids can approach him easily for an autograph.

Your pet dog is a cute and lovable family member, but if anyone trys to snatch its food bowl it will bark ferociously baring its teeth. Even you yourself would be quite fearful.

Those are examples of actively expressing Haki physically through appearance and facial expression.

Examples of involutary Haki:

An infamous gangster that has been jailed for years but still remembered by people for his doings. He was known to have beaten several people to a bloody pulp before getting into jail, but since then he has already turned over a new leaf. He walks on the street trying to be friendly but people just turns silent wherever he goes, simply because they know he was a violent criminal.

No matter how tame a lion or a bear is, it is a wild animal and for that we are wary even if they are circus animals dressed in frilly costumes. You would have fear to approach them to take pictures even if they are chained and in cages.
--------------

In One Piece Haki is basically much the same, the amplification of fear. Though we've seen its effects with much more extreme results. Like Shanks making people fear him so much that they foam from their own fear. And Rayleigh demonstrating how you can spread fear to others but at the same time not to people who you are not hostile towards.

So Haki cutting the sky into two? No, its not their Haki, its just the pure power, the power of them clashing.

Haki flinching Logias? Plausible, if someone could perform an action or expression that can instill enough fear, Logias could literally solidfy in their tracks.
---------------

About Zoro: I agree on parts where it is a manifestation of his Haki or rather Sakki(killing intent). Sakki is another form of Haki that is also very common in Eastern manga, Akuma and Evil Ryu is famous for their Sakki. Shun Goku Satsu is an attack that uses their Sakki to strike terror into the opponent, render them helpless and allows Akuma to unleash a killing combo. Sakki is a much darker form of Haki, it does not spread just fear of the individual, but fear that they may be killed.

Zoro's Asura strikes fear into the opponent messing up their minds and together with his incredibly fast movements, creates an illusion where he suddenly gains extra heads and limbs like the demon Asura himself.


Zoro's Asura turning Rankyaku into mist may also be the effect of him grasping the 'breath' of the air blades and he slices through them.

The concept of breath, '呼吸' ( こきゅう) (kokyuu), which literally does mean breath or breathing, is closely related to ki '気' (き). Ki means mood, spirit and can also be air.

The involuntary action of breathing is a frequency that happens within you, you can say its the frequency of your life, your spirit. In eastern belief, Ki exists in all things, but it doesn't mean that everything breathes in air. But rather everything has a frequency in them, a frequency of their spirit. In One Piece they call this frequency the breath of all things.

You can transfer Ki from one body to another, from one object to another. In this form, Ki becomes energy, it is also the energy that exists in all things. The spirit of all things is their inherent energy. When you fan the air, you transfer energy from your hand to the fan and into the wind, making a breeze. When you fan really hard, you'll need to breathe harder.

If you can control your breath, you can control your energy and release them as powers under your control. In One Piece its just that these characters as so powerful, they can do amazing stuff with their Ki, the energy they have in them. Like kicking air into a Rankyaku.

As all things have a frequency in them, it means they have a resonant frequency. If you can adjust your frequency to their frequencies, you become a counter to them and you can cause it to act in your will. All things have different frequencies, so you can't use the frequency of slicing a piece of leaf to slice rock, the same other way round. Something that Zoro was supposed to understand and demonstrate.

And also like I mentioned above, Ki is also mood. When you're angry you breathe harder, when you're happy you breathe faster, when you're sad you have weak breaths. So a powerful fighter must be able to control his mood, his ki, so that he can control his power. Can you imagine for yourself what kind of ki, breathing you have when you're expressing Haki and Sakki?


Haki is not something that is 'learnt', you don't actively learn it. Haki is something that will come naturally to you as you build up life experience.

Luffy over the course of his journey has learnt about the harshness of piracy, the dangers, the fearsome foes. But the most important things he learnt is the value of his nakama, their dreams and lives. He has learnt to understand importance, although he doesn't put on a serious look most of the times.

And when he does get serious, that's when he releases his Haki. When he gets serious, he wants the opponents to know and that's when he spreads an aura of intimidation, telling the opponent that he wants to kick their ass really bad. Its a natural effect, its just a switch of emotions. And the reason his Haki is so strong is because he cares strongly for the things that are worth protecting, the lives and dreams of others.

When Luffy sees that Magaret's life is in danger, he gets really angered and he released in the form of the shout, which is essentially stating that he wants them to stop. Stating his 'dominance' over others, which is Haki

AND as for the new chapter's discovery of how luffy has a kings haki.....
Being a Haou, which literally means a supreme ruler, one who's will dominates over all others, means that Luffy has the highest form of Haki. Haoushoku Haki just means Supreme ruler class/level/type Haki.

This instantly ties to Luffy's dream of being the Pirate King. Everytime he announces that he is the man that will become the Pirate King, people will get shocked, impressed and other stunned expressions. That is where his Haki comes from, his dream.

The other meaning for Haki is ambition. And Luffy who dares take up such a grand ambition, the Pirate King, can only prove that he is one with a Haou class Haki. One that has the will and determination to rise above all.

And remember the number of people who thought that Luffy gives a feeling of Gol D Roger. That is because both Luffy and Roger carried the same 'ki', the same aura, the aura of a Haou, one who dreams to become a ruler.

You can say the moment Luffy acquired this Haki is the first time when he thought of being the Pirate King, his Haki came immediately when he had such a dream. A dream where alot of people want to achieve, but not many have the will and determination to carry on. Luffy is one man who has the will and determination, that makes his Haki, Haou class.

And its exactly because of his grand ambition and charisma, his Haou class Haki influenced the people to go on a journey with him, those people are now the Nakama of the Strawhat Pirates. Luffy's Haki convinced his Nakama that he will help them achieve their dreams, that is the strength of Luffy's will and determination. His Nakama believes in him because he has this grand atmosphere and charisma around him

You can say Hancock, definitely has Haou class Haki, she just rules effortlessly over all her subjects and drops others to their knees.

And you can even say that Luffy's not just immune to her Mero Mero abilties, but also because their Haki cancels each other out. Meaning, if Luffy fights Hancock, they can only win each other by physical powers, they are each as much an influence as the other. They are both people who are full of themselves and are have extremely strong will that can even bend others' wills.

Unless, Luffy can prove himself to be the ultimate ruler of rulers and even over dominate Hancock


Hancock's Haki comes from her overwhelming beauty and her indulgence in it. She literally thinks she is the Queen of the world because of her beauty and powers. She thinks because she is such a beautiful entity, the whole world must bow towards her. That is her source of Haki.

Hancock is extremely confident of her beauty and from there brings out a great will. She is that beautiful and people are in awe by it, then on top of that, she is extremely proud of her beauty, further exerting her dominance over people who gaze upon her.

Since I'm on the topic of Haki, I'll go over to 'Sakki', which I shall now place both Zoro and Rayleigh under it.

Sakki means 'killing intent', a will to kill and drives fear into others. It is a extreme form of Haki that only makes people fear them. Unlike Haki which rules over people by both getting allies closer to them and enemies further away.

Zoro in the thick of battle invokes his inner Sakki, a will to kill the opponent. And he has Sakki because he wants to protect his Nakama, he kills because that's his job as the First Mate. But of course we know nobody dies in One Piece, but he still drives fear into people that they can get killed.

Rayleigh is the same, as Roger's First Mate. Furthermore his title 'Meiou', normally translated as 'Dark King' actually means/refers to as the 'King of Hell'. Meiou in fact is the Japanese name for 'Hades'.

Rayleigh at his prime must be someone who has killed many, to attain such a title. Or he could be one with such strong Sakki, people just have the fear of death seeing him. He could be the deadliest man in the world, to have such a title


Sanji indeed has shown that he has Haki in lesser amounts, one particular event is when he was trashing Absolom. His will to let Absolom feel his wrath because of what he was going to do to Nami, is indeed something very likely to a burst of his Haki. His Haki should then come from his gentlemanly instincts, his will to protect the ladies that he absolutely adore and of course his Nakama. As stated, Diable Jambe may injure Sanji, but he recovers from those shocks because his 'heart burns even hotter'. This could be his will over his physical pain and injury, he puts his Nakama over himself, willing to go beyond limits, that may be his Haki at work

For Zoro's Sakki again. I'd like to reference Ryu from Street Fighter. Ryu is a very powerful martial artist whose strength comes from his heart(again you can back reference to Sanji) and because of that he has extremely powerful Haki. But Ryu has something that's bugging him, a pent up rage, a rage to avenge his Master, who was killed by Gouki(Akuma). Akuma saw that Ryu's power of his heart has extremely high potential, but Ryu cannot put that potential to full use because he doesn't fight with an instinct to kill. Ryu will never put enough force to kill one, meaning he will never use his full potential.

Gouki the power hungry demon, who wants to see power and wants ever stronger opponents, see that Ryu could be that opponent that he longed for. He intended to use Ryu's hatred for him to convert his entire Haki into Sakki, to fully release his potential. He was able to do that because the only one true person that Ryu wants to kill is Gouki himself. Yes he did manage to do that and the result is Evil Ryu. But the story doesn't end here, Evil Ryu manages to return back to the good Ryu. This is again because of his heart, he overcomes his own killing instinct by ridding the impure pent-up rage in him. His own Haki overpowering his Sakki, making Gouki even more impressed with Ryu. Ryu managed to show Gouki a power stronger than even pure Sakki.

This is an example of how Haki and Sakki is interchangeable and is related

Imitorar
October 23, 2008, 05:52 PM
An amazingly useful and informative post, and I thank you greatly for making it, the12thsupernova. However, I'm moving it to the "Use(s) of haki" thread, because it seems to fit there, and that is an already existing thread. Thank you for clearing up many misconceptions, though.

kikrox1
October 27, 2008, 06:11 PM
i think haki is all about the strenght of the person like shanks when he went on white beards boat and the weak people fainted instantly. and when luffy gets mad his strength sky rockets giving him the ability to use the haki making the weak women faint and the 2 woman he is fighting think twice about making him mad again

Razh
October 28, 2008, 09:30 PM
Urouge uses the word "ambition" on this page.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/14/

Right after bulking himself up. I would really like to know if it's possible to discern if he really meant ambition or did he mean Haki from the RAW.
It is a weird choice of wording at least. But then again those things happen sometimes when translating to english.

kikrox1
October 28, 2008, 09:59 PM
._. just to add i think the old man who was on gold rogers crew used haki at the auction house to knock out all of the marines and the crew wasnt affected because it is able to be directed because i think the mermaid, chopper,and nami wuld have fainted as well

RichardMNixon
October 28, 2008, 11:43 PM
My current idea for using haki to hit logia users is that you aren't hitting their body with your body, you're hitting their haki with your haki or something to that affect. Sure Kizaru's body can dissolve into photons, but his spirit remains as a single entity and can be struck by Ray's haki.

If this was the case it would also allow BB's fruit to still be special since he is able to actually hit their body directly, perhaps that's a quicker way to take someone down than draining their spirit. After all, the more beat up Luffy gets, the more pissed off he becomes, so maybe haki goes up before you can bring it down whereas hitting their body a la BB causes injuries from the start.

paradoxe
October 29, 2008, 02:23 AM
Yeah thats what I think.

Basically Haki is a spiritual attack. Eating a DF doesn't affect your spirit..only your body. Thats why you are still affected by spiritual attacks.

SyonRyoken
October 29, 2008, 04:07 PM
I would have to disagree with anyone who believes haki is just a spirtual attack. im pretty sure its apparent by now, that haki can be used for a myriad of things. I would bet anything that mantra was infact a form of haki. which i find funny, because that would mean the great "God" Enel wasnt meant to lead afterall.

kikrox1
October 29, 2008, 04:59 PM
haki cant be spiratual because u cant make ur spirit stronger no matter what u do and thake would make everyone effected by haki which is clearly not the case since the snake sisters didnt faint when luffy used it and only a few hundred in the seats surrounding their fight

Ps. im not sure but i think eneru used haki to sense the straw hats on skypia idk if that is tru im looking for it as im writing this response correct me if im wrong and support me if im right

Superman
November 01, 2008, 03:26 AM
Did someone thought about Luffy using Haki against himself to nullify his DF so that he can swim again????????
I thought for years that someone like Shanks and the big ones must can swim. It cant be that if they fall in the water they can drown so easily. I thought that it takes enormerous will to move his body, but in the end their gens are mutated so willpower in such a way wont work and water is the hardest fiend to fight if the sea gets mad.:p Can imagine that the answer is the willpower to nullify his fruit and can swim for 5 minutes or so.

Akainu
November 01, 2008, 04:51 AM
haki.can.not.nullify.devil.fruit.powers

that's something we learned both from the fight Kizaru vs. Rayleigh and Luffy vs. the Gorgonsisters.
else Luffys attack wouldn't have "rebounded" and Kizaru presumably couldn't hold a sword of light against Rayleighs which could be Haki infused.

speaking of Rayleigh, now that we learned there is something like a king's haki and he is called the "dark lord" that could tie together somehow ... got to think about it more in detail now ^^

paradoxe
November 01, 2008, 09:26 AM
I would bet anything that mantra was infact a form of haki. which i find funny, because that would mean the great "God" Enel wasnt meant to lead afterall.

Why not?

Whats your point?

Mantra is listening for vibrations. Its not haki.

Haki could be the usage of spirit. Sensing your spirit in order to predict what you will do next, Fortifying your body with haki, overwhelming other people's spirit with your own etc.

Shurou
November 01, 2008, 03:11 PM
it seems alot of people are confused as to what exactly Haki is. I used to be confused until i read this....(hope this helps out)

Wow, whoever posted that is AMAZING... I could never have dreamed of putting it like he did. Hopefully with this, people will at least partially understand what Haki is supposed to be...

bittman
November 02, 2008, 05:37 PM
haki.can.not.nullify.devil.fruit.powers

that's something we learned both from the fight Kizaru vs. Rayleigh and Luffy vs. the Gorgonsisters.
else Luffys attack wouldn't have "rebounded" and Kizaru presumably couldn't hold a sword of light against Rayleighs which could be Haki infused.

speaking of Rayleigh, now that we learned there is something like a king's haki and he is called the "dark lord" that could tie together somehow ... got to think about it more in detail now ^^

Strongly agree with the first line.

Anyway, On Rayleigh's "King Haki": He was known as the dark king most likely because of this, as you said. Of course, this would be paralleled to Roger who probably had the same Haki, but was much more joyful in the way Luffy is whilst Rayleigh can be compared to Zoro. This is the main reason I see Zoro getting the same type of Haki also, but I will be just as happy if he only gets as far as being able to cut through an entire battleship Mihawk-style.

kikrox1
November 02, 2008, 06:42 PM
Why not?

Whats your point?

Mantra is listening for vibrations. Its not haki.

Haki could be the usage of spirit. Sensing your spirit in order to predict what you will do next, Fortifying your body with haki, overwhelming other people's spirit with your own etc.

srry i dont think that haki is spiritual that would make everybody vunerable to it no matter how strong they are

Shurou
November 02, 2008, 08:44 PM
Urouge uses the word "ambition" on this page.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/14/

Right after bulking himself up. I would really like to know if it's possible to discern if he really meant ambition or did he mean Haki from the RAW.
It is a weird choice of wording at least. But then again those things happen sometimes when translating to english.

Raw did not say "Haki" anywhere in that panel.

RichardMNixon
November 02, 2008, 11:05 PM
haki cant be spiratual because u cant make ur spirit stronger no matter what u do

Says who?

And to those that say it can't nullify a DF, are you counting hitting a logia user or Luffy as if he wasn't rubber as nullifying? If so I'd disagree, I'm almost certain doing those things are related to haki.

bittman
November 03, 2008, 12:52 AM
It can't nullify Devil Fruits, but it can overpower their unique abilities. That's my new prediction based off the last chapter with now two pieces of evidence:
1) Rayleigh may have 'blocked' Kizaru's route of light, but he didn't make the sword of light fizzle out by clashing with it.
2) If Luffy's power can be negated by Haki, he wouldn't have been able to jet pistol past Marigold's Haki defence.

Just like a power level in DBZ, Haki relies on power. I suppose if someone had the "ultimate Haki" "trained for centuries" "passed from generation to generation" and whatever other cliche's you can grab, then I'm sure no DF would stand in their way.

Haki overpowers the power of a Devil Fruit. That is my theory, and I will stick to it until someone blows it out of the water in the next couple of days (or Oda blows it out of the water with TNT).

Akainu
November 03, 2008, 03:05 AM
Perhaps there is a connection on how both work... I remember something about DF and wavelength, might have been Chopper with his rumble ball *gone researching*

bittman
November 03, 2008, 05:24 AM
Which is why I predicted Chopper using Haki. When you find that quote, put it here for us. I can't be bothered looking for it. A DF to Haki relationship would be interesting, but it would explain more about Devil Fruits than it would Haki.

Akainu
November 03, 2008, 06:02 AM
here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/149/09/)

"rumble ball is the medicine that creates wave to disturb frequencies emitted by evil fruit"

or from stephens translation:
"The "Rumble Ball" is a pill that disrupts the wavelengths of Devil Fruit forms"

doesn't make much diffrence, basically I'm not even sure if we can deduce from this, that DF emitt these or if it is about the diffrent forms...
though summing this up into one thought I'd have to say, that perhaps with enough willpower/ambition/haki chopper could perhaps kinda control himself better.
with 2 rumble balls he could perhaps foresee which form comes next and in monster point at least distinguish between friend and foe...

Warning! keep in mind that this last part is pure speculation!
although it is based on the facts stated before.

RichardMNixon
November 03, 2008, 10:19 AM
It can't nullify Devil Fruits, but it can overpower their unique abilities. That's my new prediction based off the last chapter with now two pieces of evidence:
1) Rayleigh may have 'blocked' Kizaru's route of light, but he didn't make the sword of light fizzle out by clashing with it.
2) If Luffy's power can be negated by Haki, he wouldn't have been able to jet pistol past Marigold's Haki defence.


Ok, I agree with that. I think haki allows you to strike people with DFs that would otherwise prevent them from being struck, but no it's not seastone.

Superman
November 03, 2008, 02:01 PM
haki.can.not.nullify.devil.fruit.powers

that's something we learned both from the fight Kizaru vs. Rayleigh and Luffy vs. the Gorgonsisters.
else Luffys attack wouldn't have "rebounded" and Kizaru presumably couldn't hold a sword of light against Rayleighs which could be Haki infused.

speaking of Rayleigh, now that we learned there is something like a king's haki and he is called the "dark lord" that could tie together somehow ... got to think about it more in detail now ^^

Yeah your right. Asshole i hate you.....:XD:XD:XD:XD joking.


Why not?

Whats your point?

Mantra is listening for vibrations. Its not haki.

Haki could be the usage of spirit. Sensing your spirit in order to predict what you will do next, Fortifying your body with haki, overwhelming other people's spirit with your own etc.

Oh of course its Haki. Enel stated that he has Mantra ,or however it is called, as well and the fact that he uses electricity makes it only stronger. (at least he said that in the german anime and iam too lazy to look right now but it sounds plausible)

kikrox1
November 03, 2008, 04:57 PM
._. i still say haki has sumthing to do with ur strength and presence you bring like shanks on white beards ship

kkck
November 07, 2008, 04:05 PM
I just had a thought about something. Look at this:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/425/18/

What if luffy can unconciously feel haki? Maybe that plays a small part when luffy chooses his oponents.

kikrox1
November 07, 2008, 05:07 PM
.-. i think lucci did something to luffy but i dont really remember but that makes sense i geuss ._. he could be sensing the persons strength

Razh
November 08, 2008, 11:58 AM
I just had a thought about something. Look at this:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/425/18/

What if luffy can unconciously feel haki? Maybe that plays a small part when luffy chooses his oponents.

And I suppose seeing how strong Lucci was first hand, didn't have anything to do with it.

Right, Luffy needs Haki to see who's the badass.:s

paradoxe
November 09, 2008, 10:52 AM
Oh of course its Haki. Enel stated that he has Mantra ,or however it is called, as well and the fact that he uses electricity makes it only stronger. (at least he said that in the german anime and iam too lazy to look right now but it sounds plausible)

What are u talking about?

What does electricity have to do with haki? ..

Rite..

Razh
November 09, 2008, 12:16 PM
Some people in Skypiea have the abillity to hear random thoughts. With practice, people can use mantra to hear people's thoughts, like Priests did.
Enel magnified his mantra with the use of his electrical powers, so he was able to hear everyone's thoughts on Skypiea.

Whether or not it has anything to do with Haki, can't be proved by anyone right now.
I think it's just an abillity that some people on Skypiea have. Maybe conditioned by living on great heights.

Yans86
November 10, 2008, 03:43 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/13/
Do u think that Auger and Burgess knows how to use haki???If we assume that swords,bodies,arrows and other stuff can be surrounded with haki to hit a Logia,like Rayleigh did......why didn't Auger hit Ace???

Akainu
November 10, 2008, 03:57 PM
either because they don't know (what we don't know. weird, huh?) or because Haki simply doesn't work like that, but I think we had the latter discussion already, so I'll stick to the first explanation.

bittman
November 10, 2008, 06:15 PM
Considering there's still a lot we don't know about Haki concerning how it damages Logia's and what the requirements are, I won't say Auger and Burgess can't use Haki because Ace is strong enough that he could have just counter-Haki'ed or something crazy.

That said, I highly doubt every opponent in the new world will be Haki-endowed. It would make poor Ussop and Nami even further behind. I will easily accept Auger not having Haki but still being the best sharpshooter in the world.

Imitorar
November 10, 2008, 11:58 PM
You know, Sandersonia DID say that the usage of Haki for things as specific as powering-up weapons was specific to the Kuja. Besides, I still don't think that Haki can just negate Devil Fruits, and either way, just because it CAN be used a certain way doesn't mean that everyone WILL use it that way. Auger might just shoot regularly, without any Haki involved.

Kage_JD
November 29, 2008, 05:21 AM
Okay this technique was often used by many strong charas in One Piece.
So I was wondering if anybody knows cuz thers no real explanation 4 this Technique.

The Dark King using this skill
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/11/

As u can see the link under me: Everybody tried to hit the guys leg but the sword slash n the punches don't do any damage infact Brooks sword just went straight through him
-> http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/17/ (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/11/) <-

Then suddenly The Dark King came in -> http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/18-19/<-
n kicked his leg away so maybe this Haki skill is immune to devil fruits ??

Plus in Chapter 519 page 9 Luffy gets hit by one of the amazone sistsers n he wonders why the punch hurts thou he's rubber
-> http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/09/ <- afterwards the other sister tells him because they use Haki -> http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/10/ <-
Now lets go Back ... some time ago Monkey D. Grap visited Luffy n gave him a punch as Greeting lol
-> http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/ <- Grap said its a fist of love but maybe it was Haki as u can see above the amazones could also beat him even thou hes rubber

last but not least In Chapter 519 page 17 Luffy got mad at the amazone sistsers n shouted the amazone Guards/Fighter fainted n they said his shout was ''Haoushoku Haki''
The choosen ones Skill or the ''kings disposition''.


So what do U think?

Shurou
November 29, 2008, 02:43 PM
Anyone else disappointed that we didn't get more info on Haki on the Kuja Island? Not that it would have been the best place, but still, I would've liked more info.

BlackHair
November 30, 2008, 01:36 AM
Anyone else disappointed that we didn't get more info on Haki on the Kuja Island? Not that it would have been the best place, but still, I would've liked more info.
Yea' I feel the same way. But seeing how Oda revealed in the past other techniques
(example: CP9s combat ability) on the spot, but taking for haki longer, I believe its safe to assume, that haki is the last major technique for SHs to learn.

Not saying the SHs mastered Rokishiki (spelling?), but it helped them to envelope, at least known for Luffy.

Shurou
November 30, 2008, 02:57 AM
Yea' I feel the same way. But seeing how Oda revealed in the past other techniques
(example: CP9s combat ability) on the spot, but taking for haki longer, I believe its safe to assume, that haki is the last major technique for SHs to learn.

Not saying the SHs mastered Rokishiki (spelling?), but it helped them to envelope, at least known for Luffy.

It seems that the Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are at least the same in terms of physical power as the Rokushiki users (and I would safely assume superior), save Lucci, at least for now. We've seen all of them either match or even surpass the Rokushiki users' speed and power. Here's supporting examples that I remember:

Luffy against Lucci, Blueno
Zoro against Kaku
Sanji against Jabura, Califa

All that to say, they would still benefit from learning or taking some ideas from the Rokushiki. Luffy has already done this with Soru, and I think it may be cool if Sanji takes some ideas from Rankyaku as he currently lacks a mid-to-long range attack.

Yans86
November 30, 2008, 10:02 AM
Sanji needs a move like Rankyaku,but also something like Geppo would be huber cool!

''Haoushoku Haki''
The choosen ones Skill or the ''kings disposition''......about that,I think that we misjudged this thing only because Luffy is going to be Pirate King...
The "Kings disposition" on my eyes, is just the capacity to obligate other people to do something thx to high level Haki and determination......not everyone has huge haki,determination and attitude to be captain,I think that if u r strong enough in this things u can master it,but there are people li Luffy that has a natural disposition....
Also because Hancock said that she didn't totally mastered it.....MASTERED,which implies that she is studying that,more like a technique than a particular kind of Aura....

Dr. Vegapunk
December 02, 2008, 06:43 PM
I wanna say its willpower, and the power of thought or w/e.
Example:
I say in my mind or out loud that I want to cut you, even though your a logia user I'll be able to cut you because I have the spirit, will and want to accomplish it.

I say in my mind or out loud that I want you to stop, you immeadiately stop.

I say in my mind that I want to become strong, and I become strong.

I dont believe you'll be strong like that, as I think there is a duration to its use. And perhaps you can even shape your thought like Asura, Zoro wanted to become strong, so he might've thought of having wielded more swords to make him stronger thus resulting in Asura.

Though I have to work on this theory more, I do believe this might be a possibility.

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 01:50 AM
ruffy wasnt effected by rayleighs haki.

Rayleigh wasn't directing his attack towards Luffy.
The thing is that Rayleigh is able to "target" his Haki at someone.

Rotten The Wizard
December 08, 2008, 04:29 AM
Rayleigh wasn't directing his attack towards Luffy.
The thing is that Rayleigh is able to "target" his Haki at someone.

now that is total speculation

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 05:01 AM
now that is total speculation

no, that's not.
He did the same thing with the slave trader.

Schabrak
December 08, 2008, 05:22 AM
no, that's not.
He did the same thing with the slave trader.
You mean the Tenryubuto? Oo And it's still speculation. Aside from that. He did not target Luffy.

I think he can vary the radius from his aura, but not especially target anyone. And the Tenr. mother must have been extremely weak, so she could have been fainted from Rayleigh very lowered haki.

Where are the mods... go here to discuss anything other than the current chapter. Pistol Kisses and a discussion about haki should have no place here[the 525D/526P thread]. One Piece Mega Convo (Spoilers!) (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32466)

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 05:44 AM
You mean the Tenryubuto? Oo And it's still speculation. Aside from that. He did not target Luffy.

I think he can vary the radius from his aura, but not especially target anyone. And the Tenr. mother must have been extremely weak, so she could have been fainted from Rayleigh very lowered haki.

Where are the mods... go here to discuss anything other than the current chapter. Pistol Kisses and a discussion about haki should have no place here[the 525D/526P thread]. One Piece Mega Convo (Spoilers!) (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32466)

I was talking about Disco
http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000044661/18.jpg

http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000044661/19.jpg

Razh
December 08, 2008, 05:55 AM
Rayleigh wasn't directing his attack towards Luffy.
The thing is that Rayleigh is able to "target" his Haki at someone.

It was the same with Shanks and Whitebeard's pirates that fainted.
He can't direct it at anyone. People who have weak wills faint. The other ones don't. Those other would be stronger and more experienced guys.
Rayleigh directed it's haki to whole building. He wanted to get rid of small fries and possible nuisances.

It's obvious from these first two panels at least (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/12/) that he didn't direct haki at anyone, but at everyone.

Can't you read?

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 06:13 AM
:oSo now Camie, Usopp and Nami are top tier?

Razh
December 08, 2008, 06:30 AM
:oSo now Camie, Usopp and Nami are top tier?

You can't really say that Usopp and Nami aren't strong willed individuals. If that were the case, they could have both been dead by now. If I have to explain what I mean further, than you have some rereading to do.

And I can't explain Camie, but she wasn't positioned in front of him, just like the other slaves weren't. And none of them was effected.

Seems that everyone in his eyesight was affected. Zoro and Sanji definitely felt something.

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 06:30 AM
surely not "top tier" in the sense of "strong" fighters, but they all have strong wills, which in OP-world might also correlate to having a dream you'd be willing to die for.

Schabrak
December 08, 2008, 06:35 AM
Usopp did take a lot of damage and still fought against top tier enemies, as well as Nami. They have a lot of battle experience right now. Or wills as Akainu has said.^^

It was never mentioned that Haki had something to do with/ equals to physical strength/abilitys!

And hey Camie may not be the normal warrior or something, but she was in a lot of dangerous situations. :D

But continuing a discussion without more information/facts is senseless.^^ We could take it under predictions.

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 07:13 AM
And I can't explain Camie, but she wasn't positioned in front of him, just like the other slaves weren't. And none of them was effected.

But Disco was?
The fact that only Disco was affected just proves that Rayleigh can "target" someone.

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 07:32 AM
no. it only proves that Disco has the weakest will of all people present that moment. :amuse

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 07:40 AM
What makes you think that it is because Disco is weak and not due to Rayleigh's Haki mastering?

Yans86
December 08, 2008, 08:02 AM
Rayleigh can decide to who direct his haki burst,it's simple!!!let's finish this discussion please.......
For those who says the contrary,tell me why the persons in the plot Slaves+Camie in all the occasions didn't faint...

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 08:57 AM
read the earlier posts and you'd know. they are simply stronger than those that fainted.
also there is no other indication for "haki can be controlled into a certain direction to make people faint".

why I don't believe in Rayleighs mastering of haki? dunno, perhaps because it is far more "off". anyway, it's pretty pointless to discuss this as long as we don't have further information :darn

kkck
December 08, 2008, 10:05 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/18/
WHat about here? Raileight seem to have directed his haki to that dude, and the rest of them did feel a thing.

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 10:07 AM
geeez, that was just the scene we were talking about

Schabrak
December 08, 2008, 10:09 AM
Ah new thread.^^

Let's just take Bleach for example. Easy as it is... Shinigami can control their aura too. Minimze and maximize at will. And there too, the stronger ones were less effected by the "power outburst" after release of the aura.

Yans86
December 08, 2008, 10:18 AM
I read the thread thx,so what's the reason to say that Disco was weak?and what's the reason to say that the slaves where behind him?when Luffy used haki affected evryone around him......and the fact that Disco was "attacking" Caimie and then collapsed.....oh yeah Disco is a shit and the other jailers,slaves(pirates--common persons--women) have super strong Will like the SH/ Kidd's and Law's.......pretty smart guys,I like it ah ahaa ahclap clap clap!!!

So what was the point to show these kind of direct attack by Oda???mmm.......

Ah and yeah,Caimie had a lot of fight in her life with tons of marine and super strong people,of course she wouldn' faint!!!her will is stronger than a lot of Wb pirates....I like it!!!ah aha ha ha ah

Schabrak
December 08, 2008, 10:26 AM
Where did anyone say those jailers and slaves had a super strong will? It's just that Disco seems to be a weakling, just like Spandam. Talks shit, without any real power, having gotten their positions 'cause of names and titles and nothing more.

Do you have any counter-argument?

The point was to show, that Rayleigh is very mighty, being able to take out people withput moving an inch.

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 10:32 AM
like Schabrak already said:
Disco was the person with the weakest will, so Rayleigh only had to turn his haki up as much that he fainted. the giant sitting on his side felt it...
a imo fitting image would be a stereo. if you turn it on with silent sound only you might be able to hear it near, the louder it gets the further away you can hear it.

the thig about control now only affects the volume and if someone has no control over it it's as if there is only turning the stereo on and off, with on being at maximum in most cases - or if we take Motobaros faint for what it was - at a random level.

Yans86
December 08, 2008, 12:02 PM
Where did anyone say those jailers and slaves had a super strong will? It's just that Disco seems to be a weakling, just like Spandam. Talks shit, without any real power, having gotten their positions 'cause of names and titles and nothing more.

Do you have any counter-argument?

The point was to show, that Rayleigh is very mighty, being able to take out people withput moving an inch.

We know that Rayleigh can ko people without touching theme and it's a fact that he can decide to who direct haki!Also about positions/names/title crap please stop.....and Disco a weakling??r u talking physically or mentally.....cause everyone here said that u need to have an ambition/dream to resist haki even if u r not strong physically(Usopp/Nami/slaves/caimie ecc....)...what if I'm so ambitious to step on people to fullfill my dream??Is it that haki discern between good(don't faint) and bad people(faint)???oh maybe is this the point :-D
And to finish yes Diso appear like a weakling but the others guy don't appear like these strong people.....:-p


So u r saying that Rayleigh didn't direct it only to Disco cause he was slapping Camie........casualty want that the weaker person there was also the auctioner and the one slapping Camie....mmm...

So what was the point to say that?
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/19/

It's not like Oda has to explain every single page and word of his comic,u need to be also enough intelligent to understand what's the message there...

Fox666
December 08, 2008, 12:09 PM
I would say that Disco (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/18/) was the only one facing Rayleigh at that time, but Shanks make the boat wall crack (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/05/) with his Haki...

So, I guess it can be directed to someone (because Camie won't keep it better than Disco) but it is a single shot. So, if you want to take two person at the same time, you will take down someone on the middle of them too... whatever......

Akainu
December 08, 2008, 12:40 PM
that still remains your opinion and not a fact as long as you can't prove it and just as long I will retain my theory about haki spreading sinouos (which imo fits the other theory about haki having to do with wavelength best).

Tenryuken
December 08, 2008, 05:29 PM
The fact that you guys are saying that Camie is stronger than Disco just ends the discusion.
Rayleigh targeted Disco so that he would stop his misbehave towards Camie.
And people can concentrate Haki into one "object" but not into one "human"?

Schabrak
December 08, 2008, 05:53 PM
Oh no it does not end the discussion. For sure Disco has already beaten some million worth strong pirates before too. Just because they could not defend themself in that situation makes them weak? No it does not... All of them could have been physical as well as psychical stronger than him and had to endure the pain. The point about Camie getting beaten is fail. :P

bittman
December 08, 2008, 06:54 PM
It's targeted. If it wasn't, even if we somehow ignore camie, I imagine most of the other slaves nearby would have passed out. Anyway, I can't prove anymore beyond that whilst the other side of the argument can show me more Rayleigh, Shanks and Luffy. However, it being wide area only makes it a bit limited in it's use. How do you protect someone weak whilst knocking out five hundred randoms?

If it isn't targeted, Oda is going to have to go out of his way to make sure the plot can work with that. Why would he give himself that ridiculous restriction?

Isto
January 09, 2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/37/08/

check this one out

luffy is spitting blood

kuro is hurting the rubber man with his kick (the kick in page 7 of chapter 37)

GreyEidolon
January 09, 2009, 08:00 PM
A powerful enough attack can hurt Luffy, we've seen many examples of this. Well physically weaker than many of his "Boss-Level" opponents, this does not necessarilly indicate that Kuro is using Haki. I doubt Oda had even fleshed out the idea of Haki so early in the series.

d3death
January 10, 2009, 03:28 AM
A powerful enough attack can hurt Luffy, we've seen many examples of this. Well physically weaker than many of his "Boss-Level" opponents, this does not necessarilly indicate that Kuro is using Haki. I doubt Oda had even fleshed out the idea of Haki so early in the series.

well oda did show Haki early in the series

Chapter 1
http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000001/42.jpg

Schabrak
January 10, 2009, 07:54 AM
I think it's more like Oda developed it much later, while he did not think of Shanks using any special power back than, "now" he did it. I'm sure, that I'm not the only person thinking so.

Isto
January 10, 2009, 09:05 AM
that's some awesome kick to brake a rubber jaw :)

Tenryuken
January 10, 2009, 11:30 AM
especially if a punch who destroyed an island couldn't do that.

Razh
January 10, 2009, 12:03 PM
that's some awesome kick to brake a rubber jaw :)

Maybe it's a mistranslation. You can't really talk like Luffy did with a broken jaw...:notrust


especially if a punch who destroyed an island couldn't do that.

You could have written - "Bananas!", and would have made just as much sense.

GreyEidolon
January 10, 2009, 12:53 PM
Yeah, it's pretty likely that that was a mistranslation. As for the example with Shanks and the sea king, I believe this is what Haki evolved from: The idea that Shanks had such a dominating presence that even monsters fled from him in fear.

Umbra Wolf
January 11, 2009, 10:58 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/37/08/

check this one out

luffy is spitting blood

kuro is hurting the rubber man with his kick (the kick in page 7 of chapter 37)

In one of the FBS Oda said that Kuro used a technique thats quite similar to Soru but was much more uncontrolled. Nothing to do with Haki.

OdaForPresident
January 11, 2009, 04:25 PM
We don´t know yet if that´s the case, soru might well be haki related. Just like the things the priests could do on sky island. Predicting attacks is the same thing one of the snake sisters did, and that was definately haki. Or maybe it is really just a form of martial art.

hasin
January 12, 2009, 12:46 AM
one of the Law's nakama was also effected by Rayleigh's haki. he even said I "almost lost consciousness". so at least the second burst of Rayleigh haki effected all the area. but, what surprises me most is that the others didn't feel any uneasiness. they should have been at least shaken :S
by the way here is my theory about haki:
there are four types of haki's.
1. basic type of haki-the haki that everyone possess and able to control after some training (Amazon women just know how to use it). it can be embedded in any object, thus increase its destruction power(hand, kick, weapon)
2.Enel, the monks and middle snake sister type of haki-allows predicting the movements of the opponent(mantra)
3.smallest snake sister, sentoumaru type haki-first property plus improves toughness of the body hence defense
4.shanks, luffy, garp?, rayleigh, hancock type of haki-all of the above properties plus grants extra abilities such as braking objects to pieces(the collar), knocking out the ones with a weak spirit
note: the 3rd and 4th types can also be used for nullifying devils fruit powers

HiAndromon
February 01, 2009, 01:44 AM
I have a theory on HAKI, It's "Will Power" exerted over a certain area.It overtaxes everyone and everything well into the breaking point or to the point where a person and object are at the weakest; except for the one's using it.of course this is dependent on the willpower of the person using it.Haki=controlled critical and anti critical hit's.
They might even be able to sense others willpower as well.
Wow,this sound's like it's dangerously close to invading "Hitman Reborn's" comfort Zone.

Come on; tell me what you think.
Please reply to my theory, I want some input on what you guys think.

ofir271
February 03, 2009, 09:23 AM
well it was probably said many times but anyway, what i think of haki is:

1 something that is there inside the person that he cant realy controll,but anyway it have its afect like making poeple faint(if its strong),somthing like a person presence

2 when you can use your will along with the haki(probably few can do it) things you want will just tend to happen(luffy had it his way all along the series)

3 its basiclly the same as 2 but i guess with some practice and awakening of the haki you can manipulate many things like your body ather poeple objects and events to come

4 i think the mantra is kind of a side effent that can happen along with ather stuff like "hear the sound of history"

well that about it hope it make sence

Yans86
February 11, 2009, 05:00 AM
Haki...."the breath of heart" said old Nyon....."burst of spirit" said that giant.......Rayleigh used also the words "power" and "blast".....
From these point is quite easy to understand that haki is a spiritual power that can affect objects and persons.....(POINT REALLY IMPORTANT HERE)
For what we have seen,u can train it and master it.(Kuja girls)
For what I see there are two/three important qualities we have to consider about haki:
Quantity/amount of haki u have and u can manifest...
Control which is developped by training...
Quality/natural predisposition to master and use it in different manners....

Starting from these three point,what I can see is that mastering it allow u to use it in kick/punch and weapon......it doesn't seem difficult to use it to embue weapon,so I suppose that accordly to the type of fighter u use it on weapon or barehands....the amount of damage u can create depends obviously by control(haki),amount of power(haki),and fighting ability.......(Boa's sister said that having a huge haki without controlling it is useless.....however Luffy fighting ability were by far stronger than theirs haki control+power(haki+raw)+fighting ability)......

There are situation when some ASPECT/TECHNIQUE of haki are manifested naturally or are trained/mastered without totally knowing the extent of the usage of this power.......and here I can see Mantra,Zoro illusion(Natural disposition),Luffy "king's disposition"....no one of them know that,but they use that....

We have seen Shanks/Rayleigh/Luffy make people faint....this is the "burst of haki"/"Blast".....is like manifesting it to all the surrounding area...this is important,actually I think that is not caused by quality but by QUANTITY....u can resist it if u have a strong will,but only people with a huge haki(in dimensional term) can use it.....so every haki user to a certain extent can probably use it,stronger u are much people u can affect,weaker u r...less people and weaker people/animal u can affect.....if u can also control it,u can point to single persons,animal ecc ecc without affecting the others....(LOOKS FAMILIAR ISN'T IT?!)

To use haki to defend and make your own body harder(Like Sentoumaru)is a technique that u can master with training and obviously stronger the haki,stronger the defense...

The ability to predict movement as the way boa sister did,at for a certain extent mantra showed us too,is also a TECHNIQUE that u master trough training........and yes of course stronger your haki,stronger the technique......
We have seen that everybody knew that Luffy punched hard Bacura with just raw power without using haki(but no one fainted)...he didn't blast it,however they KNEW THAT IT DIDN'T USE IT!
So haki/spirit wasn't manifested but is PART of human body and it can be read....every movement every intention start in a certain way from the spirit right?so if u can use/read/see haki,u can read your opponent intention and movement...
Also,let's say that: attack power is 10....u can make haki + raw power 20....but if your raw power is 40(ex.Luffy's gear second)...u can still beat an haki user without it...
I would also bet that Senoumaru physical strenght is not very different from Luffy's and the difference is made by haki.In Three case,Rayleigh VS Kizaru,Luffy VS Sentoumaru,Luffy VS Boa sister,we have seen a strange light which make us understand the potential to deflect DF thx to Haki....

IMO Is explained very easily here,and it can explain also the fainting effect.

From the assumption we all know that both spirit/body are inseparable,and that usually we consider the spirit as a spiritual body we can make different consideration:
To say "have a strong spirit" and "have strong will" makes no difference right???!so to not faint against a burst of a strong spirit/will u need a spirit/will enough strong to withstand a burst....if not,ur spirit/spiritual body will be overwhelmed/"punched" and your body will be "crushed"/fainting people...(if the spirit doesn't sustain the body,the body will crumble...)
Considering a DF user,a human with a body of a different material,what will happen?it happen that u have 2 modality to harm it:physically(and that's why is difficult to harm Logia's),and spiritually.
As the way a spirit can crush another spirit and it's reflected on the body,every attack with haki/spirit can weaken/hurm the other spiritual body/power,and this is reflected on the body too(indipendently from the material/element).
This will explain also the way they deflect DF.....hurting Luffy is not difficult,cause his haki is never pushed at the maxim,but is at minimun (normal state)....
Let's say: Luffy normal haki is 100,at max power is 500.
if I push my haki at max power I can surpass him(ex 150) and hit him in his spiritual part
The damage is reflected on his body and his "DF Body part hitted" will crumble because not susteined enough spiritually,so the attack is weakened/deflected easily....(of course if raw+haki 10 and u have raw 30 u can still win)...this would explain why he mantain his rubber form,or Kizaru his light form,but they still get hurt.....

Both your amount of haki,and your natural disposition,will allow u to use better certain technique than others.
Es.
Everyone has something that he can normally do easily while others persons has to train a lot to do it,and viceversa!
Haki works the same way IMO,u can train to master TECHNIQUE and grow your AMOUNT of haki,but there always be technique that for your natural predisposition u will be use better than others.....

And here come also the "King's disposition",the "haoushoku".......actually is a TECHNIQUE,not a type of haki.I don't think there are type of haki....there are predisposition to use certain technique...

The "HAOUSHOKU" is a really high technique which require two things: 1)a huge amount of haki
2)a natural predisposition "to stand above the others"=the predisposition to be a King,to rule over others,to make the others follow u,to make others do what u want.....
That's what a King do,and that's what both Hancock and Luffy share(Probably Roger and Shanks too,Dragon,but not Rayleigh.....)....a natural leadership attitude...
So,if u consider that few people use haki,even fewer have a huge mount of it and a natural predisposition to the leadership,and to finish even fewer has a D. in their name(and we know the natural leadership talent of D. from Garp,Ace,Luffy,Dragon,Roger)....
is normal that one in a million can use it..........(I don't think One Piece world is big as the real world).
This two points are important together,with the words we had in different passage:

Luffy VS Motobaro: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/495/16/ Luffy's word are....there's no point in us fighting...
And Motobaro left...after fainted of course,but the must important point in this circumstances are his words...

Luffy VS Boa's sisters:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/16/ (circumstance,Margaret statue ie going to be broken,Luffy is having tough time to convince them to not kill Margaret)

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/17/ Luffy: I SAID STOP with a burst of haki.....here we can make a parallel with HunterxHunter too http://www.onemanga.com/Hunter_X_Hunter/46
The important point is that Luffy is giving a disposition/order.....don't do that.STOP with Haki.The same he did against Motobaro...From here disposition has 2 meanings,KINGLEADER ORDERING SOMETHING ,KING/LEADERSHIP NATURAL ATTITUDE...

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/ three points here....in the first place everyone notice that he has a strong haki(Not really important)......secondly(very important)Boa's sister STOP to wrap both Luffy and Margaret.....thirdly Luffy says that they LISTEN TO HIM AFTERALL(in reality they did what he wanted like Motobaro)...and at the end of the page and in the followed to,what they say is really important to bing everything.....

Kuja girl:one in a million people "IS CAPABLE TO USE IT"....to say "cpable touse it" and not "have it",already says that is a technique that really few persons can master under certain really rare condition(predisposition+huge haki)...

Boa's sister: I've never seen a person aside from anesama who "COULD USE IT"....

Hancock:.....even I haven't mastered it yet.....

MASTERED.....u can master a technique,not a different type of something that you r not(TYPE OF HAKI),u can perform it mastering it,or naturally cause of ur natural talent,ore use both natural talent and training to improve that...

KING'S DISPOSITION or HAOUSHOKu is a technique that allow u to have people to do what u want:

Hancock: has a natural disposition to the leadership and he trained it,but she didn't fully mastered it....and I think she will never do!
From Hancock words,Luffy used is better than her,that's the surprise other than having that predisposition/technique/huge haki...

Luffy:has a massive haki,and is different from Hancock,he didn't trained it,but his natural talent to stand above others is by far bigger than Hancock's!!!!we know how people gather around him,with Luffy as a leader just naturally....we know he is part of the D. family,and we know that this family is particulary talented in leadership attitude/strenght/haki/will......we know that Luffy is going to be Pirate king!!!!!

bittman
February 11, 2009, 07:37 PM
Boa's sister: I've never seen a person aside from anesama who "COULD USE IT"....

Hancock:.....even I haven't mastered it yet.....

MASTERED.....u can master a technique,not a different type of something that you r not(TYPE OF HAKI),u can perform it mastering it,or naturally cause of ur natural talent,ore use both natural talent and training to improve that...

KING'S DISPOSITION or HAOUSHOKu is a technique that allow u to have people to do what u want:

Hancock: has a natural disposition to the leadership and he trained it,but she didn't fully mastered it....and I think she will never do!
From Hancock words,Luffy used is better than her,that's the surprise other than having that predisposition/technique/huge haki...

Luffy:has a massive haki,and is different from Hancock,he didn't trained it,but his natural talent to stand above others is by far bigger than Hancock's!!!!we know how people gather around him,with Luffy as a leader just naturally....we know he is part of the D. family,and we know that this family is particulary talented in leadership attitude/strenght/haki/will......we know that Luffy is going to be Pirate king!!!!!

I tried to read it, but the text walls and grammar was a bit too much for me. Still, I wanted to add this...AGAIN FOR THE FIFTIETH TIME THIS MONTH (ok not really, but shut up!):
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1188226#post1188226
(Basically, Luffy hasn't mastered it, the translation was incorrect and re-translated by another. However, the damage to onemanga was done)

Oh man, this debate is going to last as long as the "Arlong is as strong as Jimbei" debate did isn't it?

Yans86
February 12, 2009, 08:52 AM
I tried to read it, but the text walls and grammar was a bit too much for me. Still, I wanted to add this...AGAIN FOR THE FIFTIETH TIME THIS MONTH (ok not really, but shut up!):
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1188226#post1188226
(Basically, Luffy hasn't mastered it, the translation was incorrect and re-translated by another. However, the damage to onemanga was done)

Oh man, this debate is going to last as long as the "Arlong is as strong as Jimbei" debate did isn't it?

I didn't know,however this doesn't change a lot the situation right?!mastered or not mastered by Hancock,what I expressed about that type/technique of Haki is still valid!

Huge amount of haki + natural leadership disposition are necessary to master/having it.......
The HOUSHOKU haki let u make the others follow your orders and ur behaviour.
Not only like an aura (i follow this person cause it looks and thinks like a leader,he has something special=)
But also as a power to give an order,and push the persons to follow that order!!!

Having Hancock,Luffy and IMO also Shanks,WB,Rogers,Dragon,having it won't be surprising.....1 in a million.....they are one in a million,they r talented natural leader with strong/will haki.They are THE TOP LEADERS!!!and some with a D. in their name....

I can't say the same for Garp and Ace cause we really don't know their attitude to leadership,and how faithful(and not only) the persons around them are,and how they r followed by their nakama's!
I don't think Raleigh mastered/has it,I don't see him as a leader,more than a wise person,super powerful,but not the type that leads people towards dreams,not the type of persons that gather people around him!
Is 20 years already that his crew disbanded......he could have made another crew like Shanks did.....but looks more like he lived almost all alone for all the time...

Makki
February 17, 2009, 01:43 AM
I just wanted to say that in ep. 389 ther are the first signs of Luffy using Haki. First time ever in animation. It "sounds" like some kind of hypnotic beam would be directly between luffy's eyes and the Duval's bull's eyes.

So I really think it could be some kind of psychokinetic power.
Watch it, you will know what I mean.

Razh
February 17, 2009, 08:23 AM
I don't think it's psychokinetic.
And the image blur and the sound were added to show that something abnormal actually happened when Luffy was talking to Motobaro.
There were no sounds or blurs when Shanks was on Moby Dick. That was because Marco and Joz told us what to expect.

Stoc15
February 17, 2009, 08:32 AM
Haki is a very complicated thing. Some people believe that Oda is just making it like chi, chakra, nen, and all things of the like. Chakra, for instance, can charge up attacks. Chi helps fighting techniques. And nen helps boost up the body. Haki, however, is more of a defensive technique. For example, in Silver's fight with Kizaru, he used Haki to disable Kizaru's Devil Fruit powers. That's a bit more defensive and assisting then really attacking. Although, that's not saying haki can't be used offensively. The Kuja tribe boosts their arrows with Haki, and it can significantly be used to the advantage of the user. King's Disposition, however, is a completely different league of power. Hancock, with her Mero Mero powers and charm, is practically unstoppable using Haki. So far, she has not been beaten in a battle and has only three people that weren't really affected by her: Momonga, Luffy, and Domino. Domino might of been hiding her feelings, but I didn't really see any weakness with her. Anyway, I believe that haki is a style of...magic. Who knows? Magic did appear in the second (or first) Romance Dawn, so you never know what could happen next!

HiAndromon
February 17, 2009, 03:11 PM
I already said I think It's Willpower, Their Will put's pressure on everyone and everything.
If people are weak enough they will pass out. By putting pressure on something they break very easily, That's my take on it.

Darkever
February 17, 2009, 05:27 PM
Luffy:has a massive haki,and is different from Hancock,he didn't trained it,but his natural talent to stand above others is by far bigger than Hancock's!!!!we know how people gather around him,with Luffy as a leader just naturally....we know he is part of the D. family,and we know that this family is particulary talented in leadership attitude/strenght/haki/will......we know that Luffy is going to be Pirate king!!!!!
Excellent analysis! I really enoyed reading it... well, I already tought must of it too. Just a point: in Binktopia's translation, Hancock says that "he can't control it" referring to Luffy, she's not talking about herself. I don't know which traslation is correct, but I doubt Hancock would tell everyone her weakness like that...

narutoschkraknives
February 17, 2009, 06:56 PM
I don't think it's psychokinetic.
And the image blur and the sound were added to show that something abnormal actually happened when Luffy was talking to Motobaro.
There were no sounds or blurs when Shanks was on Moby Dick. That was because Marco and Joz told us what to expect.

If thats the case then adding no sound effects would have been better then that techno shit.Sometimes the absence is more effective then that usless stuff.
[hr]

I already said I think It's Willpower, Their Will put's pressure on everyone and everything.
If people are weak enough they will pass out. By putting pressure on something they break very easily, That's my take on it.

so its kinda like shit energy from bleach that sounds kinda like wat you are saying.

PS: bleach sucks.

Makki
February 17, 2009, 07:44 PM
Excellent analysis! I really enoyed reading it... well, I already tought must of it too. Just a point: in Binktopia's translation, Hancock says that "he can't control it" referring to Luffy, she's not talking about herself. I don't know which traslation is correct, but I doubt Hancock would tell everyone her weakness like that...


We haven't even seen Hancocks' king-haki in action yet, haven't we?
She can control it, luffy not.





so its kinda like shit energy from bleach that sounds kinda like wat you are saying.

PS: bleach sucks.

I really hope that is not the case... Bleach really sucks..

And I don't really meant it is a psychokinetic energy which is controlled just like a Pokemon attack, just some strong aura that leaves an impression and makes weak people faint. Couldn't it feel for the victims like riding one of these 100m tower things in adventure parks, where you go up slowly and then fall down in like 3 seconds, just much more brutal? ww


@yans86:
what's with that excessive using of dots? hard to read and understand your posts :/ すまんね

HiAndromon
February 18, 2009, 11:56 PM
If thats the case then adding no sound effects would have been better then that techno shit.Sometimes the absence is more effective then that usless stuff.
<hr noshade size="1">


so its kinda like shit energy from bleach that sounds kinda like wat you are saying.

PS: bleach sucks.

That thing from Bleach is more psyching yourself out, not overpowering something but Fortifying one's self or attack with the power of Believing in one's self.Yeah that doe's sound pretty bad when put like that.

I'm just posting what I think,I mean Luffy defiantly has had enough willpower to get this far and I think he'll only get stronger and it's going to see him through.

LilPal504
February 22, 2009, 09:24 AM
i have an idea about the king disposition. i thnk it makes others listen to to your commands. and i think what raleigh did was not this just a simple burst of his would i would assumme is huge haki. for ex. hancock who was also said to have it had people obeying her orders without realizing it. you may say this is a product of her devil fruit but i think not only time will tell. but luffy also did the same thing when talking to duval's cow and the sisters

Lord Rayleigh
March 11, 2009, 04:30 PM
The PX have exactly the same physical appearance as Kuma, do not talk and is not even moving but Zoro realise he is not the Shichibukai one. And he didn't know about the PX case.
So, Haki seem to be linked to feelings :
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/19/


The feelings remind me about the particular shiver we can have when we see important things and we know about it. It is a shiver that is linked to what you are living or watching : you know that it is - in the reality or in the fiction - a very important moment.
It is linked to the eyesight and the hearing : to perception.
A movie, with the music, the scene, the slow motion can make you feel this shiver (for example, the Rohan cavalry charge in the Helm's Deep in Lord of the Rings 2). This shiver often appears in war movies when there is a lot of people and some guys have an unique behave/charism : when some guys stand upon the other with a particular "aura" in a particular moment : epic behave in epic moment.

The intensity of Zoro's look shows the particular behave of Zoro in an important moment : meeting with the terryubito.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/499/15/
And for me, these feelings some SN have, are similar to the shiver I talked about.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/499/17/

Razh
March 11, 2009, 04:36 PM
Just a small correction. One of the Pacifistas seemed to talk.

This is the only time, I think.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/509/18/

Lord Rayleigh
March 11, 2009, 04:55 PM
Just a small correction. One of the Pacifistas seemed to talk.

This is the only time, I think.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/509/18/
When I said " do not talk ", I was just referring to the fact he hadn't even talked when Zoro understood he was not Kuma. It was one of my argument to proove this moment was linked to feelings and not apperance : I didn't want to mean the PX were not able to talk.

OunknownO
March 23, 2009, 05:59 AM
hey what about that haki can be merge with weapons(i think that ussop will be able to use that kind of haki)

Gecko Moria
March 24, 2009, 02:15 AM
hey what about that haki can be merge with weapons(i think that ussop will be able to use that kind of haki)

Possibly, but more like haki enhances the power/strength of weapons as we have seen during the Whitebeard and Shanks duel. The strength of their swords clashing were enough to create a storm :o

Razh
March 25, 2009, 07:28 AM
That doesn't mean that they enhanced their weapons with Haki. Quite a few characters in One Piece were able to cut solid objects without touching them. Namely, Mihawk, Zoro, T-Bone and Daz Bones.
Are they all Haki users then?
I'm not even sure that you can use Amazon Haki on swords. They use it on their arrows to make them cause a strong blast upon impact. That would be really tricky when it comes to swords. I can easilly see a sword breaking upon impact. Especially if the both swords are Haki enhanced.
And why would you enhance your sword if you can enhance your strength, like the Amazons hinted.

I think it's just a matter of strength. Anybody who has ever swinged a stick knows that the swing creates a sort of air whip. Now, One Piece has people who are a lot stronger than normal. I'm pretty sure there's nobody on Earth who can lift a house and throw it away.
Now imagine what an air whip a guy like that can create. Well, you don't have to really, since we have seen it. He can cut walls from a pretty huge distance.
Now, we have two people clashing weapons. They are among the strongest people in the world. If there's a rookie who can slash walls without touching them, is it so strange that their swings and clash can create an air sickle strong enough to split a cloud above them and cause a change in the winds?

Gecko Moria
March 25, 2009, 02:24 PM
That doesn't mean that they enhanced their weapons with Haki. Quite a few characters in One Piece were able to cut solid objects without touching them. Namely, Mihawk, Zoro, T-Bone and Daz Bones.
Are they all Haki users then?
I'm not even sure that you can use Amazon Haki on swords. They use it on their arrows to make them cause a strong blast upon impact. That would be really tricky when it comes to swords. I can easilly see a sword breaking upon impact. Especially if the both swords are Haki enhanced.
And why would you enhance your sword if you can enhance your strength, like the Amazons hinted.

I think it's just a matter of strength. Anybody who has ever swinged a stick knows that the swing creates a sort of air whip. Now, One Piece has people who are a lot stronger than normal. I'm pretty sure there's nobody on Earth who can lift a house and throw it away.
Now imagine what an air whip a guy like that can create. Well, you don't have to really, since we have seen it. He can cut walls from a pretty huge distance.
Now, we have two people clashing weapons. They are among the strongest people in the world. If there's a rookie who can slash walls without touching them, is it so strange that their swings and clash can create an air sickle strong enough to split a cloud above them and cause a change in the winds?

1. I've never said that having the ability to cut solid objects means you have haki (even I can cut solid objects, so it's no big deal :p)
2. When I said "haki enhances the power/strength of weapons" I obviously don't mean it literally makes the weapon stronger (OP isn't one of those mangas). I meant, as you have very nicely said, that it enhances their strength therefore implying the weapon's strength. If I wasn't clear on this, I apologize.
3. I agree with your last reply, those two guys do have the power to make an "air sickle" to "change the winds".

Razh
March 26, 2009, 12:39 PM
1. I've never said that having the ability to cut solid objects means you have haki (even I can cut solid objects, so it's no big deal :p)


Yeah, you could have indeed been a little clearer on what you meant.

Aside from that, would you teach me how to cut solid objects from a distance without touching them? That's so cool.

Lord Rayleigh
March 26, 2009, 02:45 PM
Aside from that, would you teach me how to cut solid objects from a distance without touching them? That's so cool.

You probably need the american technology, who knows ... ?
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/bus+irakien/video/x7ks7l_star-wars-en-irak-armes-lasers-12_news

Flow9
March 26, 2009, 05:21 PM
This power is just used to scare people, and to make one stronger instead of using brutal force. Thats what i think....guess we will all just have to wait.

toxun
March 27, 2009, 11:40 AM
That doesn't mean that they enhanced their weapons with Haki. Quite a few characters in One Piece were able to cut solid objects without touching them. Namely, Mihawk, Zoro, T-Bone and Daz Bones.
Are they all Haki users then?
I'm not even sure that you can use Amazon Haki on swords. They use it on their arrows to make them cause a strong blast upon impact. That would be really tricky when it comes to swords. I can easilly see a sword breaking upon impact. Especially if the both swords are Haki enhanced.
And why would you enhance your sword if you can enhance your strength, like the Amazons hinted.

I think it's just a matter of strength. Anybody who has ever swinged a stick knows that the swing creates a sort of air whip. Now, One Piece has people who are a lot stronger than normal. I'm pretty sure there's nobody on Earth who can lift a house and throw it away.
Now imagine what an air whip a guy like that can create. Well, you don't have to really, since we have seen it. He can cut walls from a pretty huge distance.
Now, we have two people clashing weapons. They are among the strongest people in the world. If there's a rookie who can slash walls without touching them, is it so strange that their swings and clash can create an air sickle strong enough to split a cloud above them and cause a change in the winds?

About people who can cut from the distance, do you forgot to mention all CP9 members (aside from Spandam of course ;)). Also did you see that some Amazon women carrying a melee weapon (sword in this casejust take a look at these)http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000079292/02-03.jpg

Razh
March 27, 2009, 12:17 PM
About people who can cut from the distance, do you forgot to mention all CP9 members (aside from Spandam of course ;)). Also did you see that some Amazon women carrying a melee weapon (sword in this casejust take a look at these)http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000079292/02-03.jpg

Well, I just gave a few examples, doesn't mean that I forgot about Rankyaku.
And yes, Amazons do have swords. I never said Amazons didn't use swords. I said swords can't be used the same as the arrows which explode upon impact.

neomaster121
March 27, 2009, 02:44 PM
Well, I just gave a few examples, doesn't mean that I forgot about Rankyaku.
And yes, Amazons do have swords. I never said Amazons didn't use swords. I said swords can't be used the same as the arrows which explode upon impact.

well if u mean the exploading part fair enough

but if ur saying u can't put haki in a sword

why?

Razh
March 27, 2009, 03:02 PM
What's the point in putting Haki into a sword if you can increase your own strength to swing it harder?
Sure, you can probably put Haki in a sword, if you can put it in an arrow. It's all the same. But what if the sword just blows up on impact.
So far, we've seen only projectiles imbued with Haki. A sword is a different type of weapon. It's used in close combat to slash or stab an opponent. As such, it's already destructive enough as it is. The rest depends on his users strength and speed. So it's more useful to use Haki to increase your own physical ability when using a sword.

neomaster121
March 27, 2009, 03:13 PM
What's the point in putting Haki into a sword if you can increase your own strength to swing it harder?
Sure, you can probably put Haki in a sword, if you can put it in an arrow. It's all the same. But what if the sword just blows up on impact.
So far, we've seen only projectiles imbued with Haki. A sword is a different type of weapon. It's used in close combat to slash or stab an opponent. As such, it's already destructive enough as it is. The rest depends on his users strength and speed. So it's more useful to use Haki to increase your own physical ability when using a sword.

you know how Zoro used breath

say thats actually haki

then Haki in swords allow people to cut nothing

Akainu
March 27, 2009, 03:26 PM
"nothing" is actually a lot harder to cut than anything else... that's why many assume that to be one of the neyt steps in Zoro's swordsman skills.

neomaster121
March 27, 2009, 03:33 PM
"nothing" is actually a lot harder to cut than anything else... that's why many assume that to be one of the neyt steps in Zoro's swordsman skills.

of course but i belive the ability to cut nothing isn't something you can do by swinging ur sword faster

In fact Zoro imself said by channeling his will he chose what he cut
then didn't cut the leaf but cut cleanly through the rock

If this will was infact a weak haki
as Zoro grows stronger and learns to truley use his haki (his ashura form could be a haki form)
and plus gold rodger had the ability to hear the breath of all things

i wonder if theres a link

Turtle Pirate
March 28, 2009, 03:47 PM
I started watching all of One Piece over again and I'm at the fight between Luffy and Zoro after zoro defeated all of those boroque works people at the first island they reach after entering the Grand Line and one episode 68 right at the beginning they start getting extremely serious and then the area around them starts to kind of blurr as if an aura is surrounding them. I know it isnt haki but it kind of just makes me think of it because they get really intense, of course this is just to build of suspense because right before they break out into fighting again nami hits both of them and they stop... anyway i just thought it was kind of cool and made me think that if nami hadnt stopped them that they might have discovered haki right there at that moment.

just go watch the beginning of episode 68, it's right at the beginning pretty much

toxun
March 30, 2009, 04:59 AM
Hahaha so the fight between Luffy VS Zoro are wined by Nami, an answer for thread in DBF :XD. Btw fighting aura is something mere in anime, placed by animator & so on. They're still not as strong as current I guess, but I agree about their potencies. Somebody else also put a theory that Nami indeed had haki potencies herself :p.

Phase
March 30, 2009, 11:44 AM
Hahaha so the fight between Luffy VS Zoro are wined by Nami, an answer for thread in DBF :XD. Btw fighting aura is something mere in anime, placed by animator & so on. They're still not as strong as current I guess, but I agree about their potencies. Somebody else also put a theory that Nami indeed had haki potencies herself :p.

I know I've thought that for a long time and posted it on here, though I'm sure I'm not the only one. Throughout the manga/anime, she's capable of bruising Luffy, and eventually Brook. When I first saw her bruise Luffy, I assumed it was just for comic relief, and eventually a running gag of sorts. After seeing Garp's "fist of love" and Sanji's reaction, I started believing there was more to it. After seeing Rayleigh fight Kizaru, it felt very obvious to me that Nami has dormant abilities that she will eventually realize. We still don't even know who her parents are.

I understand it that Haki translates loosely as "ambition" or "will" or something similar. Because of Luffy and Zoro's extremely high ambition/will, it's very possible that they've used an untempered Haki unconsciously in the past. The anime of the Luffy/Zoro fight really appears as though they're powered up by some external force. However, there is nothing in the manga to show the same thing that I can find.

Flow9
March 30, 2009, 05:48 PM
Maybe Nami has some special wind haki, there might also be other natural haki's. who knows.

Akainu
March 30, 2009, 06:04 PM
I'm tired and can't hold back the idea, that if those Haki exist, we surely already saw fire (Sanji, could be some kind of passion), demons (Zoro) and well, also wind/weather (dragon, except for the case he could have a DF)

GreyEidolon
March 30, 2009, 09:35 PM
If there are other kinds of haki (I'm still not exactly comfortable with the term), it would be interesting if they were based on other archetypes. Like, say, the haki of a Peacekeeper: Their willpower naturally calms people, maybe drop their weapons, etc.. Or perhaps a Rallying/Flag bearer type that raises your comrades moral- It would be great for a musician, like Brook.

Okay, so that's probably way to specific a theory. Just something I considered. Personally, I hope "Haki" stays vague and doesn't become some sort of moldable energy like thing.

Phase
April 05, 2009, 04:31 PM
In this week's anime episode, Zoro seems to unleash a king's haki in an added encounter on grove 2. Is this a mistake, or is the anime spoiling the manga? If it's a mistake, it seems like a pretty huge one.

bittman
April 05, 2009, 06:13 PM
Ugh, that hurts to hear that it happened because yes, it's definately a mistake. In the manga Zoro walks through Grove 2, says "Grove 2 huh?" and that's it. One Panel, nothing more.

And now the anime have him King Haki'ing people? I hope to god Oda doesn't give him King's Haki just to screw with their heads for fail filler.

neomaster121
April 05, 2009, 06:22 PM
Ugh, that hurts to hear that it happened because yes, it's definately a mistake. In the manga Zoro walks through Grove 2, says "Grove 2 huh?" and that's it. One Panel, nothing more.

And now the anime have him King Haki'ing people? I hope to god Oda doesn't give him King's Haki just to screw with their heads for fail filler.

lol it could be Zoro was already going to give Zoro a king haki
or demon haki with simulr effects

and the anime peoples decided to give us a teaser of whats to come

i too saw that and i was like huh did Zoro just use haki especially with the way he opened his eye annd the guy steped back and droped his blade plus with the effects

Phase
April 05, 2009, 06:31 PM
Well, after seeing what Rayleigh can do, it's not unreasonable to think that Zoro will eventually have similar power. This does seem to be the haki arc after all.

Shadoguardian
April 06, 2009, 06:48 PM
In this week's anime episode, Zoro seems to unleash a king's haki in an added encounter on grove 2. Is this a mistake, or is the anime spoiling the manga? If it's a mistake, it seems like a pretty huge one.

No, what Zoro used was his killing intent, something completely different from Haki. If Zoro used Haki everyone would have fainted, not just been scared.

Zoro knows how to use his killing intent in different ways , like when he uses 9-swords style. It's like an aura, much like when Sasuke and Sakura first met Orochimaru in Naruto.

Phase
April 06, 2009, 07:58 PM
No, what Zoro used was his killing intent, something completely different from Haki. If Zoro used Haki everyone would have fainted, not just been scared.

Zoro knows how to use his killing intent in different ways , like when he uses 9-swords style. It's like an aura, much like when Sasuke and Sakura first met Orochimaru in Naruto.

You know I've been thinking about how haki will work in the future, and I think I may have jumped the gun a bit on this king's haki thing. I do still believe that event was haki related, but I don't think it's the king's haki. I just have my doubts that they'd add something so confusingly similar in this same arc.

My current thoughts on haki are that it's similar to reiatsu from Bleach, except not as powerful. The biggest difference being when someone witnesses more than they can handle, they simply pass out. The haki can then be harnessed and utilized for whatever other purposes may exist. The two we've seen for sure are the weapons imbued with haki to hit harder/ignore df abilities, and also the "king's haki." I think that threat/intimidation is an important aspect of haki, which is what Zoro showed in this week's anime episode, and what we saw from Luffy against Motobaro.

After re-reading chapter 519 (where Luffy unleashes his haki on the Kuja), I get the feeling that the king's haki has something to do with forcing one's will onto someone else. Considering position and velocity, Margaret should only have been able to survive if Sandersonia consciously tried to save her. Otherwise the force would have driven her into the ground anyway.

I don't mean to present any of this as fact, it's just my current impression of how I expect haki to work in the future of One Piece.

Shadoguardian
April 08, 2009, 06:31 AM
From what I under stand about Haki:
-there are different types or classes of haki;
-it can be used differently;
-it can be used to predict an opponents movements;
-it can probably increase the power of an attack;
-it can, when used properly, manipulate the users hair in whatever way they wish;
-it can be used to hurt devil fruit users when normally it wouldn't have;
-it can be used to improve defense;
-it can be used to knock out opponents without touching them;
-Luffy has the rarest type or class of Haki: the Haoushoku Haki.

Have I missed anything out?

Razh
April 08, 2009, 08:46 AM
It's possible that it can increase someone's perception too.

Rayleigh at the auction house. He figured pretty quickly what happened on his own. Might have been Haki at work. Or he's just really intelligent.

Akainu
April 08, 2009, 09:02 AM
if roger was as dumb as Luffy is then Ray-san should have been the one with the brains *lol*

@shadoguardian: I don't think you forgot sth. perhaps thaqt haki also scares away beasts/weaker enemies before it makes them faint? also some of these "abilities" might only be part of a certain haki, like scaring people into doing what you want is kings colour...

Phase
April 08, 2009, 11:54 AM
The whole "voice of all things" thing seems to be related to haki. The first time we were introduced to it was the "mantra" that was used in sky. Rayleigh referenced it, and the Boa sisters were able to predict moves and were trained haki users. It's unclear how much information can be learned from that ability still.

bittman
April 08, 2009, 06:15 PM
@Phase: Actually I think it might have been a hint to his Devil Fruit, but I won't rule out Haki from the argument with 100% clarity.

@Razh: And yeah, Rayleigh is just a smart man. I mean, Shakkie knew Chopper liked fairy floss, she didn't use haki for that. Rayleigh took two seconds to look around and saw KO'ed Tenryuubito, a bunch of strawhat's mid-fight, Hacchi half dead and a mermaid in a fishbowl in the middle of a slave house.

It actually doesn't really take a genius to piece together...though maybe in One Piece it does since intelligence is often undermined by bravado, not that there's anything wrong with that. I just miss intelligent people every now and then, which is why Crocodile is still my favourite villain.

neomaster121
April 09, 2009, 04:44 AM
@Phase: Actually I think it might have been a hint to his Devil Fruit, but I won't rule out Haki from the argument with 100% clarity.

@Razh: And yeah, Rayleigh is just a smart man. I mean, Shakkie knew Chopper liked fairy floss, she didn't use haki for that. Rayleigh took two seconds to look around and saw KO'ed Tenryuubito, a bunch of strawhat's mid-fight, Hacchi half dead and a mermaid in a fishbowl in the middle of a slave house.

It actually doesn't really take a genius to piece together...though maybe in One Piece it does since intelligence is often undermined by bravado, not that there's anything wrong with that. I just miss intelligent people every now and then, which is why Crocodile is still my favourite villain.

u thought gold rodger had a devil fruit to hear the voice of all things
Zoro heard the breath while in near death state (i think haki)
maybe gold rodger had a simular haki to Zoro's
while luffy has a simular haki to Silver

Phase
April 09, 2009, 10:35 AM
if roger was as dumb as Luffy is then Ray-san should have been the one with the brains *lol*


Just like Zoro is the one with brains in Luffy's crew? lol

Akainu
April 09, 2009, 11:25 AM
Just like Zoro is the one with brains in Luffy's crew? lol
partly, yes. zoro surely isn't the type who has his knowledge out of books or from reading at all, it's more something like a life full of fights that gave him some sort of intelligence, battle inteligence so to say just that it's used elsewhere too on their journey... except perhaps when it comes to directions xD that totally doesn't fit his bounty hunter image with the ancient male hunters developing exactly that and women on the other hand not doing so which leads to some other modern times stuff, buthat's going too far atm xD

Rotten The Wizard
April 14, 2009, 11:36 AM
lol@ Zoro having Haki.

I have no doubt in my mind that Zoro will pick up Haki because that would put him on a whole new level, he'll be able to take out 4 Marine battleships with 1 slash(by my calculation anyway)but right now he has no idea what it is.

He'll most likely pick it up from luffy when Luffy figures it out

beastboy
April 17, 2009, 07:45 PM
Well I believe haki will not have a fisic form, but something almost fisic, like if you coul sense him but you cont touch him or see it.
As was shown at amazone lily you can put him in weapons, and his foreshadowed that is a great weapon agains akuma no mi.
With it you can also nock out some specific person, or just evrybody in a room, but I don't thing it wold make you run faster or work like soru, make your skin hard as steel, a punch with haki will probably explode or increase inner damage!
Mantra that was shown in Skypiea is maybe some variation of haki that the people from the sky renamed, and maybe it can have quotidian uses, cause evry kuja know how to use it so it should be easy to learn!
And I don't thing that is just haki what make the legends, legends, Oda will surprise us with some ultra-overpower thing that is crazier than haki!

dRizzit
April 19, 2009, 08:03 AM
if roger was as dumb as Luffy is then Ray-san should have been the one with the brains *lol*
...

Not really when you think that Zoro is Luffy's 1st mate and he isn't that clever either.

Akainu
April 19, 2009, 08:48 AM
thank you we already had that on April 09, 2009 05:35 PM with my answer on April 09, 2009 06:25 PM

apart from that if you watched the latest episode (aired today) you perhaps know what I mean when saying it's not only haki-enhanced perception?

BlackHair
April 20, 2009, 08:17 AM
Does anyone think there could be a weakness for haki? I just thought since it's willpower, it could be weakened by mental influences. Like changing the mind or heart by talking. Those who read/watched Monster (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=1539), know what Im talking about.

Also Perona's DF ability, those negative ghosts were able to crush ones will to live.

Tbh I don't think Oda will implement weaknesses for haki in his story, was just a thought.

neomaster121
April 20, 2009, 10:09 AM
Does anyone think there could be a weakness for haki? I just thought since it's willpower, it could be weakened by mental influences. Like changing the mind or heart by talking. Those who read/watched Monster (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=1539), know what Im talking about.

Also Perona's DF ability, those negative ghosts were able to crush ones will to live.

Tbh I don't think Oda will implement weaknesses for haki in his story, was just a thought.

Haki seems to be the thing which combats df
i think perona df will make zoro harnest his will power conciously so he can find his swords with the breath tech(which i think is haki) and make perona take him back

k-dom
April 20, 2009, 04:36 PM
It seems that the gorgon sisters haki was weaker when Luffy showed that he possessed king haki (at least that is the way I feel it). So I think you have to control your emotion in order to control it

Gecko Moria
April 20, 2009, 07:01 PM
It seems that the gorgon sisters haki was weaker when Luffy showed that he possessed king haki (at least that is the way I feel it). So I think you have to control your emotion in order to control it

My thoughts exactly. It seems Luffy gets a burst of haki whenever he gets angry. For example:
1. When he was fighting the Gorgon Sisters
2. In Impel Down, he used it be obliterate the wolves that were attacking him and Mr.2.

Lord Rayleigh
April 26, 2009, 01:30 PM
My thoughts exactly. It seems Luffy gets a burst of haki whenever he gets angry. For example:
1. When he was fighting the Gorgon Sisters
2. In Impel Down, he used it be obliterate the wolves that were attacking him and Mr.2.
It is the equivalent of Sangohan's anger power. The anger is a way for Luffy to manage what he could not have done normally : it awakenes his hidden haki.

cheaptrick
April 27, 2009, 06:06 AM
you know, the more i think about it the more this whole haki thing looks like star wars 's jedi "force"...

Sunny-Go
April 29, 2009, 08:50 PM
Well we do know that there are at least 3 different kinds of Haki.

1. Haki of the Kings: Been named by the Amazones during Luffy's Arena fight.
People with this Haki are very Rare and do posses the Ability to overwhelm weaker people with their presence alone and they can nullify DF Ability's in Melee Combat. We havent seen any further improvements of this type, which we can clearly state as Haki ability's, but i doubt that this Type is just for the show.

2. Mantra: This Haki type was introduced as "Mantra" during the Skypia arc.
Users of this kind, are able to foresee enemy Attacks, to read peoples minds and to harden their body ( maybe just their hands ) to reflect attacks. Even though, those 3 ability's dont seem to be equally shared among the Users. Each one seems to have a speciality.

3. Enhancing Haki : We know very little about this kind of Type yet, but the Lilly's used Haki to strenghten their Arrows.
I think this kind simply enhances someone physical strength and weapons, learnable by anyone.
Whitebeard is probably the most powerfull Man with this kind of Haki.

Imitorar
April 29, 2009, 11:46 PM
I'm getting the urge to rail against Haki again. It's been too long.

Well we do know that there are at least 3 different kinds of Haki.

1. Haki of the Kings: Been named by the Amazones during Luffy's Arena fight.
People with this Haki are very Rare and do posses the Ability to overwhelm weaker people with their presence alone and they can nullify DF Ability's in Melee Combat. We havent seen any further improvements of this type, which we can clearly state as Haki ability's, but i doubt that this Type is just for the show.

2. Mantra: This Haki type was introduced as "Mantra" during the Skypia arc.
Users of this kind, are able to foresee enemy Attacks, to read peoples minds and to harden their body ( maybe just their hands ) to reflect attacks. Even though, those 3 ability's dont seem to be equally shared among the Users. Each one seems to have a speciality.

3. Enhancing Haki : We know very little about this kind of Type yet, but the Lilly's used Haki to strenghten their Arrows.
I think this kind simply enhances someone physical strength and weapons, learnable by anyone.
Whitebeard is probably the most powerfull Man with this kind of Haki.

First of all, Mantra has NEVER been shown to be related to Haki AT ALL. It was not stated to be in any chapter, SBS, interview, or even Databook. That is pure fan speculation at the moment. It is a THEORY that hinges upon the fact that OSTENSIBLY Sandersonia's use of Haki did the same thing as Mantra. The fact that Mantra already HAS an explanation (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/257/07/) unrelated to Haki tends to get overlooked.

And "Enhancing Haki"? It gets its own name? Marguerite just called it ordinary Haki. When exactly was this shown to be a different flavor of the power, as opposed to merely a usage of the power different from knocking people out?

People get confused between Haki and Dying Will Flames. There are SOME similarities, but they are not nearly as dramatic as people would have you think. From what we have seen EXPLICITLY in the manga, there is one force called "Haki", caused by a person's strength of will. This force has many uses. Prediction of attacks. Intensification of attacks. Knocking out weak willed onlookers. SUPPOSEDLY nullifying Devil Fruits, nullifying Logia Fruits, or allowing you to hurt Logia/Devil Fruits without actually nullifying them, but that too is fan speculation, although it actually has a foundation (a shaky one, in my opinion, but it IS there).

Now, the Kuja clearly stated that Luffy had Kingly Haki. But that needn't be taken to mean that there are different types of Haki, each with its own power. (In fact, an conservative, and in my opinion logical, reading of the manga would indicate that it SHOULDN'T be interpreted that way at all). Haki can mean, among other things, "ambition", or "aspect". It's the sort of feel you get from a person's will power. And Luffy's will, his ambition, is to become a king.

He naturally rules people, because he has the will and charisma of a ruler. It's a sort of feeling you get by interacting with him, and it characterizes the manifestation of his will power, or "Haki". But that doesn't mean that he has special powers because of this Haki, it only means that the Haki "feels" a certain way, based on what motivation or personality trait causes it to manifest.

Also, I'd like to repeat that everybody should read this post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080692&postcount=62), which clearly explains what Haki is in Oriental culture. Once you understand that, you can begin to speculate as to how Oda will use the concept in One Piece. It's something for all of us to bear in mind when we discuss Haki.

Sunny-Go
April 30, 2009, 10:02 AM
I'm getting the urge to rail against Haki again. It's been too long.


First of all, Mantra has NEVER been shown to be related to Haki AT ALL. It was not stated to be in any chapter, SBS, interview, or even Databook. That is pure fan speculation at the moment. It is a THEORY that hinges upon the fact that OSTENSIBLY Sandersonia's use of Haki did the same thing as Mantra. The fact that Mantra already HAS an explanation (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/257/07/) unrelated to Haki tends to get overlooked.

And "Enhancing Haki"? It gets its own name? Marguerite just called it ordinary Haki. When exactly was this shown to be a different flavor of the power, as opposed to merely a usage of the power different from knocking people out?



Well the so called explaination you posted there, doesnt say anything at all. Gan Ford just explains the ability's in further detail, but then he adds that even he doesnt understand the Logic behind that power.
Furthermore its not just Sandersonia who is using "Mantra". Sentoumaru has pretty much the same tricks on his sleves. He clearly stated his defense beeing the strongest in the world and it was definatly the same move we saw from the Priests on Skypia.

Enhancing Haki maybe just a minor state of King's Haki yea, but personally i think its not related because of what we have seen from Whitebeard.
When Shanks went to see Whitebeard, the weaker pirates were suprised by the advise to go under deck. Therefore i think Whitebeard doesn't have King's Haki, but a strong Type of "Enhancing/ordinary Haki. Makes up to his introducing as the "Strongest Pirate" alive.

neomaster121
April 30, 2009, 02:21 PM
Well the so called explaination you posted there, doesnt say anything at all. Gan Ford just explains the ability's in further detail, but then he adds that even he doesnt understand the Logic behind that power.
Furthermore its not just Sandersonia who is using "Mantra". Sentoumaru has pretty much the same tricks on his sleves. He clearly stated his defense beeing the strongest in the world and it was definatly the same move we saw from the Priests on Skypia.

Enhancing Haki maybe just a minor state of King's Haki yea, but personally i think its not related because of what we have seen from Whitebeard.
When Shanks went to see Whitebeard, the weaker pirates were suprised by the advise to go under deck. Therefore i think Whitebeard doesn't have King's Haki, but a strong Type of "Enhancing/ordinary Haki. Makes up to his introducing as the "Strongest Pirate" alive.


when he said he doesn't understand the logic he was talking about enru version
and if my memory serves me correct i believe he extended his mantra by using hid df

In fact that makes mantra seem like nothing more than a technique
kinda like ho gai from naruto can predict movements from the feet of his oppoenent
mantra is just predicting movement in a very simular way

I don't think Mantra his haki
maybe the snake sister as using proper preception haki rather than the technique based mantra

beastboy
April 30, 2009, 04:20 PM
well i think that this post:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080692&postcount=62
is the best explanation, and I hope that ODA do somthing similar to that, it would make One Piece raise a point in my clacification (OMFG it is already in 10/10, 100/100, 1000/1000 and so on)
That explanation killed me ahah, so if I train just to sae my mome when my mother would be about to be killed I would scream "don't kill my moooooooooooom" and the guy would stand back, thats cool!

Akainu
May 03, 2009, 04:01 PM
Well since it's out for a week now in Anime, we know that Roger Rayleigh also used Haki to remove the collar from Caimies neck. Now the fact that we still did not get to see how exactly that worked out there is even more room on speculation about Haki.
I don't think that it can - additionally to all the other things we know/think to know/openly assume - be speed amplifying. That would overdo it in many ways and only serve as an excuse for everything we'll see in the future.
Though it could naturally just be that ... what do you think?

Lord Rayleigh
May 03, 2009, 04:21 PM
Well since it's out for a week now in Anime, we know that Roger also used Haki to remove the collar from Caimies neck.
By Roger, you mean Rayleigh.
Yeah, it was a very interesting thing to see that what allowed him to break the collar was Haki and not pure strenght.

beastboy
May 04, 2009, 01:52 PM
Well I think that king haki = lelouch's geass, a little weaker!

I've absolute control of your will, cause I'm a ruller!!
It makes sense and if pronounced with V like ivanckov does it makes even more sense hahhaha

Shadoguardian
May 07, 2009, 01:54 AM
It seems that the gorgon sisters haki was weaker when Luffy showed that he possessed king haki (at least that is the way I feel it). So I think you have to control your emotion in order to control it

It's not neccesarily weaker, but apparently it's the rarest type of Haki.

However, I'm more interested in how Luffy will learn how to use it. Luffy has no idea he has it, what it is, and how to use it, and until he figures them out (or someone tells him), he won't be able to use it in battle. It makes me wonder why Oda is dragging it out for so long.

ofir271
May 07, 2009, 04:32 AM
haki is manifested is a certain state of mind when you really mean somthing and of corse you need that haki to exist in you in the first place.

for example when shanks meet WB both of them have the potential to use haki,but shanks is the only one using it.he went to an enemy territory and let his spirit out and that state of mind/condition enabled his haki to affect the poeple.

BlackHair
May 07, 2009, 01:30 PM
Well since it's out for a week now in Anime, we know that Roger Rayleigh also used Haki to remove the collar from Caimies neck. Why are u so sure that it was with use of haki? Infact I believe he didn't used haki. All I saw was how he slowly unlocked the collar before throwing it way. Maybe he did amplify his hands with haki, but at this point I think it is only a guess.

Or are u basing this on Hachi's comment? I believe the anime studio screwed up on that one, since they altered the collar scene with stretching the episode.


It makes me wonder why Oda is dragging it out for so long.
I think as soon as Luffy is able to use/control haki, he is on Admiral fighting lvl. Basically he is able to fight more or less evenly with the top of the world.

Akainu
May 07, 2009, 01:55 PM
err, no. Hacchans comment was not the basis for my words, since that was almost clearly in context to Rayleigh knocking out all those guys.

What I based this on was - as I wrote - the animated version. I f you followed it throughout the last few weeks you might have heard this weird sound every time Haki was used? exactly this sound was used as Rayleigh was removing the collar. That's why I'm pretty sure it was Haki in this case.
How exactly it works - still no clue!

BlackHair
May 07, 2009, 02:08 PM
Ah..nice, just checked the episode and yes, there is rly the haki sound. Must have missed it while watching last week.

k-dom
May 07, 2009, 03:59 PM
The thing is that there is no sfx associated with haki in the manga so I'm not sure we can take that has a proof.
Since Rayleigh is 100 times stronger than luffy he must have more than haki on his side.

BlackHair
May 07, 2009, 04:33 PM
hm.. about sfx, well I can't read jap. so not sure but maybe this (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2987/97147629.jpg) could emphasize haki. Anyway, I always take Anime as basics if in the manga certain things are unclear.

About the second part I don't believe Ray's haki is more than that of Luffy's. Imo haki is just willpower, sth u will have since birth. I don't think with training u can maximize the volume except maybe with character development. Anyway, My point is that Luffy is weaker since he can't control/use haki as Ray. Also Shakky probably execrated with the "100 times", I mean she didn't even saw Luffy in action. ..

k-dom
May 07, 2009, 04:43 PM
ヒュ seems to mean quick movement the other one I don't know

And even if Shakky exagrated this chapter was purely to show the difference of power between Rayleigh and the Strawhat.

Glokta
May 11, 2009, 06:20 PM
I'm mainly asking whether this


http://img34.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000128792/16.jpg

or this


http://img34.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000280/04.jpg

are haki.

After all Mantra looks a hell of a lot like this

http://img34.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000088312/10.jpg


and Roukogan looks a hell of a lot like this - though i suppose it being Haki is debatable.

http://img34.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000075392/14.jpg

Any other examples you can think off ?

BlackHair
May 11, 2009, 06:29 PM
We have already a thread for haki: Use(s) of haki (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35040)

Mantra has it's own explanation (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/257/07/) and it's different from haki. I also don't think rokugan has anything to do with haki. For all we know, it is based on roukushiki (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/425/14-15/), nothing more.

Anyway I wouldn't waste time to compare haki with any events/techniques before Shanks use of haki on WB's ship (Ch.434 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/01/)). Since new firstly introduced techniques usually don't appear in past chapters.

btw u should read this post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080692&postcount=62).

xstationcubed
July 17, 2009, 09:55 PM
not to change the subject, but i think i found evidence to support that Mantra is just haki by a different name.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/280/13/

look there, when he activates Mantra to catch Luffy's hands, Oda uses that same effect that he always uses with haki. its not guaranteed proof, but its something.

tothx
September 01, 2009, 03:51 PM
Well Shanks and Rayleigh showed that they possessed the very same ability to knock out weak characters and freighten off beasts - Shanks in the very first chapter, and later on WB's ship, Rayleigh on Human Auction... Basically, that's haoushoku.



No, thats just haki. Haoushoku is the ability to knock out even strong characters, talking about directly knocking out "rookies" like the 94 million guy from shanks crew. It is doubtful that the haki shanks presented while visiting whitebeard is haoushoku, probably just a very strong normal haki but far from luffy's level

Haki is something EVERYONE has (maybe except usopp :p), but not everyone can use. It will most likely become very common to be able to use normal haki in the one piece world. Haoshoku though is on a completely diffrent level, at best we will see 1 or 2 more people with it.

BlackHair
September 01, 2009, 04:07 PM
No, thats just haki. Haoushoku is the ability to knock out even strong characters, talking about directly knocking out "rookies" like the 94 million guy from shanks crew. It is doubtful that the haki shanks presented while visiting whitebeard is haoushoku, probably just a very strong normal haki but far from luffy's level

Haki is something EVERYONE has (maybe except usopp :p), but not everyone can use. It will most likely become very common to be able to use normal haki in the one piece world. Haoshoku though is on a completely diffrent level, at best we will see 1 or 2 more people with it.
About the bolded part, where did u get that information? intel on Oda?

I agree with the rest of ur post though.

Sup Razh :woot

Junior
September 01, 2009, 05:01 PM
No, thats just haki. Haoushoku is the ability to knock out even strong characters, talking about directly knocking out "rookies" like the 94 million guy from shanks crew. It is doubtful that the haki shanks presented while visiting whitebeard is haoushoku, probably just a very strong normal haki but far from luffy's level

Haki is something EVERYONE has (maybe except usopp :p), but not everyone can use. It will most likely become very common to be able to use normal haki in the one piece world. Haoshoku though is on a completely diffrent level, at best we will see 1 or 2 more people with it.

OBJECTION!

Haoushoku is NOT a "skill" that one can utilize to knock out a bunch of rookies. It is a title given to people that have certain LEVEL of Haki that only one in a million people are born with. If you wanna apply it to DBZ, it's like being able to turn Super Saiyan (coff). Only one in every so generation was supposed to be able to attain the title of super saiyan (coff). Only one in a million people have the Haoushoku.

It IS true that a person with this TYPE of Haki may prove to have the ability to overwhelm the senses of untrained individuals..but yeah..I'm sure anyone with skill in utilizing Haki can perform such a task.

A Naruto comparison. Everyone has chakra and, for the most part, can utilize it (Haki) but only a few people's chakra can be so strong that it interacts with environment around them to cause gusts of wind, tremors, etc like Naruto (Haoushoku->Luffy).

Edit: Haoushoku even translates to "King's Disposition", amirite? So..that's just a term for people that have that kingly aura about them.

Shadoguardian
September 06, 2009, 11:30 AM
Somehow, haki kind of reminds me of demon chakra, in the sense that it took Luffy heightened emotion to bring it out, but if the power resembles the name, then it might be stronger for those with larger ambitions, and rarer types of Haki might be the strongest.

Oni Giri
September 06, 2009, 12:18 PM
sonia and mari were able to predict luffy's movements and they are haki users so i think mantra somehow related to haki. it can be a form of haki like haoushoku that only some people possess

keydude
September 19, 2009, 10:49 AM
Hey all!

As an avid martial artist, and a very spiritual person, I found the idea of Haki very interesting. After doing some digging, I discovered there is FAR more to it than meets the eye.

Very soon (in the next few weeks) I'll be posting an essay on the concept of Haki in the One Piece universe, using my knowledge of its real-life counterpart to extrapolate on its place in the manga. This is some F*6&ed up $hi!. Just a warning :amuse

Anyway, as a quick preview, I'm going to use Chapter 557 to show you a little bit about what I mean.

Ever wonder why some people win arguments so easily? I'm sure you've run into people who will get into a discussion, and become so passionate about it that the people they're arguing against simply can't go on. Those of you who are more aware might have noticed that it has very little to do with what's actually being SAID, and more to do with how much that person believed in what they were saying, that led to the other person breaking down.

This is the essence of Haki in the real world. Think of it as strength of mind, of your will. In that kind of example, its someone using their extreme conviction of being RIGHT about something to mentally bash whoever disagrees. And in the end, whoever's conviction is strongest (not whoever's argument is the soundest) is the one that walks away feeling like they've won. If you've ever been the other guy in such an argument, you understand that being crushed by how strong someone's conviction is isn't fun - you're left confused, not sure what to believe, because you had a conviction of your own that hasn't been proved wrong through logic; yet you now doubt your belief because of how much the other person BELIEVED you were wrong.

Scary $hi! already, for those of you who understand its implications.

How does this apply to One Piece chapter 557?

Read this page: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/557/03/.

Notice how in the first panel, Buggy the Clown thinks Luffy's idea is really, really, really stupid. (and it kind of is. sorry Luffy). But all it takes is Luffy saying (with CONVICTION) "If we all work together, we can do it!!" to completely change Buggy's mind. Notice how he almost seems surprised that he believes it's possible all of a sudden.

This is Haki in the One Piece universe at work. Luffy's belief that it could be done was so much stronger than Buggy's belief that it couldn't, that it was almost instantly overridden. In the chapter before this, most of the people falling from the sky now realized it was a stupid idea. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/556/16-17/

This was after their OWN conviction of how stupid an idea it was was strengthened when they found themselves falling out of the sky, towards almost certain death. Their Haki about the situation rose, making them doubt Luffy's word.


Now how does this relate to the other ways Haki has been used in the manga? Good question! You'll have to wait to find out, but trust me when I say it's all connected :)

I hope this sheds some light, and maybe gives you something to think about.

Comments are welcome, and appreciated!

Peace

UPDATE: I've read a few of the other theories on here, and because the concept is so eastern in origin, and therefore difficult to define, please understand that this is just my general opinion on the concept. Its composed of my own research and direct experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

BlackHair
September 19, 2009, 01:50 PM
Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080692&postcount=62)is a very well explained theory about haki, based on real life.

Anyway, I disagree with ur haki example on chapter 557 and generally on that conviction idea. It was just a comedic act, according to my understanding. Buggy who earned himself quite a few followers since the jail break and after all that praises from the MHQ, became cocky and high spirited. I mean he was talking about taking WB down.. and becoming a Yonko, if not a PK. So I wouldn't go with haki explanation in there too much. Just my opinion.

An example of haki in real life: If u are put with Mike Tyson in a cage, who is in a steroid-overdoses state, then u would faint, cause of pressure and fear. That would be haki of Tyson, similar what Rayleigh, Shanks and Luffy used in OP, imo! :D

keydude
September 19, 2009, 06:34 PM
@ blackhair: Thanks for the link to that theory on Haki.

The reason I think that that particular scene is an example of Luffy's haki and not a result of the crew is because, if anything, it happened the other way around. First Buggy was against the idea, then Luffy made his claim. Buggy was then convinced, and the crew followed HIM. Which, in a way, was Luffy's haki spreading over through Buggy's. It definitely was used comedically, but I'm convinced that Buggy wouldn't have agreed with the idea if not for Luffy's massive will.

As for your Mike Tyson example, if he was in a steroid-overdosed state, he'd probably be pretty convinced that he'll kick my ass. In which case, only an equally strong conviction that I would kick HIS ass would stop me from having my mind broken by his Haki.

My main objection with the theory you linked to is that Haki is fear based. It is far more than that. Sakki on the other hand, is most definitely fear based - the conviction that you are going to kill your opponent. If Tyson's conviction of killing me was strong enough, I'd believe he was going to, and thus be scared.

The Luffy/Buggy example was more to show that Haki has multiple uses, all of which depend on the conviction/will/intent of the person using it.

BlackHair
September 19, 2009, 07:14 PM
But so far the use of haki was always connected to fainting ppl. Except for when it was used during a fight to imbue weapons/body parts. Luffy vs Boa Sister: (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/) in this case the use of haki is confirmed, since there are ppl fainting. Yet on Buggy's case no-one is fainting. So I still don't think haki had any role there. That was purely for comedical purpose, since Buggy as said above is overconfident in himself.

I agree saki (=killing instinct) is fear based. In my view haki isn't like that. It is more will (=ambition) based. So a person with a higher ambition has a stronger haki. Ambition grows with character development. While killing instinct grows with physical training. So that said, in that Mike example, it was more likely saki I guess.

Now Im not rly sure where to put "conviction". But I believe conviction is linked to fear. With a louder voice u can convince some1. But particularly it is fear which let's him convince. Plz correct me here.

skydevilnooj
September 19, 2009, 10:52 PM
Here are the uses of Haki:

1) cause weak ppl to faint by releasing a blast of haki

2) nullify the powers of devil fruits (ex. rayleigh kicks kizaru(logia)/ sentoumaru hurts luffy(rubber man) physically)

3) predict moves (ex. one of the gorgon sisters predicted luffys attacks to dodge)

4) Repel physical attacks (ex. Sander-Sonia made luffy's stamp bounce off her)

5) enhance destructive powers of objects (ex. Kuja Tribes Arrows)

and if Luffy used his Haki to boost Buggy's confidence than u can add that to the list also and it can cause ppl or creatures to be overwhelmed with fear like the seaking that took shanks arm and destroy things like shanks did to WB ship... can't wait to see what else it can do

keydude
September 20, 2009, 11:23 AM
@ Blackhair: The problem with explaining a Japanese concept is that there is no proper english equivalent. Also, keep in mind that only the explicit uses of Haki in the One Piece universe were with people fainting, and the arrows. To me, that is an extreme use of a strong haki. I'll get back to that though.

I agree that it is ambition based, but that ambition itself is based on conviction. In Luffy's case, its the personal conviction that he will become the Pirate King that drives his massive ambition.

It is his massive ambition that drives his intended actions (defeating Rob Lucci for example). The three combined (conviction+ambition/will+intent) forms Haki.

So yes, yelling at someone could get your point across, but only if the other person's Haki (combination of those 3 attributes, which all stem from personal conviction) was weak enough. People have yelled at Luffy when he proclaimed he'd be the Pirate King and he just laughs them off.

So it isn't as simple as that, and yelling certainly doesn't always inspire fear, even when the other person believes what is being yelled. A perfect example would be my previous one - Luffy pretty much yelled at Buggy, but it wasn't an angry yell. It was one of urgency. And Buggy believed it!

And I don't really want to get into the details too much about the people fainting, and the arrows and other attributes of Haki used in the manga (way too complicated, thus the essay I'm writing :P) but I will say this: My belief is that the people fainting was a direct result of being faced with an unreal amount of Haki (belief/conviction/ambition/will/strength of mind) that totally crushed theirs. These people of weak Haki were overloaded - only the strongest withstood it.

The arrows are where things get very interesting, but that'll come later. My basic premise was that the strength of personal conviction is the first ingredient in Haki of any kind, in any situation.

Also, please keep in mind that I'm using my understanding of a real-world phenomenon to explain something in a fictional manga. Though the parallels are very close, I only really intend it to help people wrap their brains around a possible explanation until Oda explains EXACTLY how Haki works in his universe, not ours.

kkck
October 13, 2009, 02:45 PM
Ok, I guess after the last few chapters it is pretty clear haki is the way to get around not only logia's abilities but also special body properties granted by DF. Not the only use of haki but I would say it is pretty much a fact by now right?

Wonder exactly what participants of the war have the power to use haki though. It would seem as if at least WB, marco and jozu can use it given that all of them can hurt logia's physically. Boa is a fact. Mhawk should also be a safe bet. Maybe the reason ivankov can use hisdeath wink is haki lol.

Mangafan2
December 29, 2009, 10:23 PM
Could be that death wink is haki but at the same time, Ivankov is a paramecia type (I think) and with paramecia you never know what kind of techniques they create. Like Luffy's 2nd gear, it isn't that logical but it could work. Ivankov's face is so huge that a wink can blast trough stuff.

Lord Rayleigh
December 30, 2009, 08:38 AM
Could be that death wink is haki but at the same time, Ivankov is a paramecia type (I think) and with paramecia you never know what kind of techniques they create. Like Luffy's 2nd gear, it isn't that logical but it could work. Ivankov's face is so huge that a wink can blast trough stuff.
I think Oda said in one of the last SBS that Death Wink was not an attack using Haki.

Darkever
January 05, 2010, 04:58 PM
I'll do a recap about the uses of haki we saw until now, with various examples:
- Make weak people faint (Shanks, Raileygh, Luffy), or make medium-strength people waver (Luffy vs Gorgon sisters)
- Physically hit logia and negating other DF powers (Zoro vs Mr1?, Raileygh, Sentomaru, Gorgon sisters, Hancock, Marco, Jaws)
- Predict opponent's moves (Eneru's mantra, Sandersonia, Luffy for a brief moment during the confrontation with Mihawk at Marineford?)
- Drammatically improved defense (Sentomaru, Marygold)
- Drammatically improved attack (Zoro's Asura?, Sentomaru?, amazons' arrows). This is probably connected to negating DF powers.

In my opinion Zoro's Asura and maybe some others techniques (like Lion's Sonson) are based on haki, too. At the moment we have no better way to explain how Zoro can grow more faces, arms and SWORDS if not by an effect of haki! Also, back in Arabasta, Zoro was able to negate Mr1's DF just like Sentomaru did with Luffy in Shabaody.

One point we still have to understand is why haki allows to hit logia and ignore other DF powers like Luffy's rubber body or Mr1 iron body. My theory is that haki is the manifestation of a strong spiritual will, that is even able to change physical rules and make all kind of things possible. Like cutting iron, kicking smoke, or blocking a ray of light: when Raileygh blocked Kizaru, he strongly believed he was made of normal flesh, and that made it possible to physically block him.

Gats
January 05, 2010, 06:28 PM
I think Oda said in one of the last SBS that Death Wink was not an attack using Haki.

And I confirm it. But I can't find the link again. :(

Jiggy-Ninja
January 07, 2010, 09:32 PM
I think Oda said in one of the last SBS that Death Wink was not an attack using Haki.
I'm kinda surprised people thought it was Haki. To me it was obvious that it was an air pressure deal, like Zoro's 36 Pound Cannon.

Darkever
January 10, 2010, 09:18 AM
The impact of Death Wink is probably made by the extreme speed Iva-san closes his/her eyes. His/her long eyelashes move the air creating some sort of invisible missile, very similar to Kuma's air cannon. That is why bigger face means more air, and so more power. Only my 5 cent.

Instead, I have no clue about how he/she did the Galaxy Wink... Did Iva duplicate? Did he/she moved extremely fast? Any ideas?

Goos
January 10, 2010, 09:54 AM
The impact of Death Wink is probably made by the extreme speed Iva-san closes his/her eyes. His/her long eyelashes move the air creating some sort of invisible missile, very similar to Kuma's air cannon. That is why bigger face means more air, and so more power. Only my 5 cent.

Instead, I have no clue about how he/she did the Galaxy Wink... Did Iva duplicate? Did he/she moved extremely fast? Any ideas?

Maybe used "soru" whilst winking? Don't know :).

About how haki enable people to hit logia, I reckon it is something probably like what Garp did to Luffy with his "fists of love" (chapter 431). A damage imbued with haki inflicts damage to the spirit, not to the body. That is how DF's users are able to be damaged when they are hit with haki. But, only Oda knows...Hahaha.

Lord Rayleigh
January 12, 2010, 10:35 AM
I've got an interesting video about the anime and Haki. You guys make sure you read the english words of the video. see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECu3jSWJqE&feature=related).
What do you think ? Clash of Haki in the two cases ?

Gats
January 12, 2010, 04:41 PM
I've got an interesting video about the anime and Haki. You guys make sure you read the english words of the video. see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECu3jSWJqE&feature=related).
What do you think ? Clash of Haki in the two cases ?

It doesn't happen in the manga, so it...doesn't happen. It's just a special effect for anime (Zoro/Luffy) and I doubt that Oda leads the anime, even more a few years ago.

Naruffy
January 21, 2010, 09:03 PM
Also, back in Arabasta, Zoro was able to negate Mr1's DF just like Sentomaru did with Luffy in Shabaody.

I thought that Zoro just managed to cut through metal in that fight?

The Closet Pervert
January 22, 2010, 02:22 AM
Besides making weak people faint, I have seen two other uses for Haki this far:
Strengthen yourself (or weapons)
Counter to Logia types

This far we have only seen those three, and if there are other uses, we don't know yet.

(Oh, and until someone in manga SAYS ALOUD that Zoro or some other Strawhat than Luffy has haki, I say only Luffy has Haki)

Anyway, it's the King's Haki that will make Luffy the pirate king. Well Luffy is strong without it, but lets face it..Luffy stands no chance against The Big Boys of the world. Logia is the main weak point of Luffy, along with seastone. Haki will negate these two weak-points of Luffy, and will make him universally powerful.

That's the main benefit of Haki..it's not weak towards anything.

poobert
January 22, 2010, 06:16 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/108/18/

Was this not Zoro using Haki? Either that or he has a mighty squeeze. However I recall the foam in the mouth thing being a haki related injury.... maybe it is more clear in the anime.

Fox666
January 22, 2010, 03:54 PM
Zoro is smashing her head. :)

givensp
January 31, 2010, 03:20 PM
I dont know if this is true or not but in " http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/501/09/ " in the bottom right zoro looks like he uses haki although you cant tell unless you watch it in the anime
[hr]
Its episode 395 about halfway through the episode and its pretty much the same as what luffy did with motoborou "duvals bull" except that they didnt faint
sorry dont know the right spelling

bittman
January 31, 2010, 06:32 PM
...so...when he asks questions with an oblivious tone...he's using haki?

I don't know what you're seeing, but it looks like Zoro asking bounty hunters for directions...

And also, everything that foams is not Haki'ed. The foam is Oda's sign that that the person has been defeated so badly that they are also mentally destroyed. Case in Point: that link to Miss Monday. She was confident in her strength, and when outclassed by a swordsman with ease, she was destroyed both mentally and physically.

Which is also exactly what haki does, except with mystical powers.

It's a mental strike. Like the force from star wars, except it will inevitably include bullshit about friendship.

givensp
February 01, 2010, 12:00 PM
the reason I thought it looked like he used haki was because it seams like he mentally attacked them and they became scared but not to the point of fainting like the bull did , meaning that it wasnt a strong enough mental attack to case fainting since that would mean he is using it without knowing like luffy but not with the same strength

and i dont know what foam your talking
[hr]
I'm just wondering did u watch the episode or just read the part in the manga that i was talking about because u dont see it in the manga only the episode

Black Mirror
February 01, 2010, 02:37 PM
I dont know if somebody already mentioned, so i apologize if this is the case^^

Luffy used HAKI already on Arlongs weapon:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/92/19/

we can compare this to how rayleigh released camie from handcuffs

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/504/09/

I wonder though if luffy even noticed that he cracked a metal with only his fingers... well this proofs another peak of stupidity XD luffy is just awesome.

kkck
February 01, 2010, 03:20 PM
I don't think what luffy did then is the same as what raileight did. Raileight seemed to have removed the collar without damaging while luffy did something as crude as using his fingers to break metal-not an accomplishment worthy of mention-. Also, odds are raileight didn't use haki for that, he might actually have an ability.

bittman
February 01, 2010, 05:28 PM
Or he might actually be very strong + very fast? Its an exploding collar, not an exploding collar made of seastone or diamond and thus impossible to break.

@givensp: No I did not watch the episode, for a very good reason I can obviously see now. If we can see it in the episode, but not in the manga, it means squat as far as evidence goes. I remember seeing Nami in the first episode, but not in the magna, so should I now say that Nami was the first crew member introduced instead?

You shouldn't use the anime as evidence.

Also, the foam was directed at the talk about Miss Monday.

@ Black Mirror: So basically everything anyone has done has been Haki? I've seen haki defend, so everyone that defends uses haki? I've seen haki knocked people out, so anyone that can knock someone out can use haki?

Haki is not something Oda has planned for ages, most likely he reached a point recently (and I'm only talking last couple of years) where he's realised: "Oh, I'm really going to have to do something to give Luffy an advantage against logias outside of getting lucky with elements for a third time."

KaoruArimi
February 04, 2010, 02:56 AM
just finished a reading a page and noticed luffi usin haki on a pack of wolves in impel down level 5 freezing hell to save bon clay

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/536/18/
[hr]
here's where bon-chan arrives at iva's prison paradise and mentions he got saved from a pack of wolves because luffy uses some wierd power (haki) but he didn't know what it was
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/537/06-07/