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View Full Version : Chapter Bleach 318 Discussion



bax
July 18, 2008, 12:45 AM
Chapter 318 is out, get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35270)^^

Go ahead to discuss this chapter and predict the next here guys!

iyung
July 18, 2008, 12:58 AM
well now we know baragan is the number 1 espada, this seems to be interesting and he isnt stupid either.

and halibel is number 2 and stark with his human reactions is 3

besides that nothing really surprising happened next week fire works start

EvolutionIX
July 18, 2008, 01:00 AM
It is still unclear, stark could have all the fighting ability and baragan is just smart. It is still unclear. Halibel is in the same situation, she could be skilled and smart, just not to an extent. But to my understanding, Baragan is #3 because he is arrogant, halibel #2 and stark #1.

mgalli
July 18, 2008, 01:04 AM
i still think think taht stark could be number one for a few reasons shown in this chapters...
barragan looks to stark and says " you better not have a problem with that" and stark replies "sure why not...like he doesnt care taht barragan gives orders even though he is the 1st espada" then lilnette kicks stark and is like "ill tell you why not...first of all..." leading me to assume that Lilnette is basically saying "you cant let him do that, your the first espada!"


i think that Stark is too lazy and doesnt care enough to give out orders, so Aizen has Barragan doing all of that.

Revan46
July 18, 2008, 01:10 AM
Actually my thinking is Halibel is 1, Stark is 2 and Barragan is 3. Why you might ask? It's simple. Halibel is respectful of Aizen, and I'm pretty sure Aizen would want the person who would most respect him as his number one and she just seems to exude a powerful nature. (Now the only reason Ulquiorra isn't is just because he's isn't as powerful.) Stark I believe is number 2 because he really doesn't care about anything, he respects Aizen, but could care less what happens. While Barragan, there's just no way he's 1 or 2. He's arrogant, disrespects Aizen's leadership who could easily give orders if he wanted even through the flames, and I just think that like in the mafia where the underlings call the leader "boss" Barragan does the same because he's the lowest of the three. And most imporantly, is trying to gain respect and power he doesn't have BECAUSE he is number 3. I think the last part is the most important piece of why he's number 3. But with Halibel and Stark I think it really could go either way...

As for Ulquiorra I am curious if he's just going to release now because he just wants to rid himself of Ichigo once and for all...who knows maybe Orihime will be so scared for Ichigo she uses Koten Zashun and slices right through Ulquiorra. :P I really think Orihime is a great character despite others opinions, they just don't like her whole "oh I'm so helpless, SAVE ME!!!" when it's more "I will protect my friends no matter the cost".That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

~Kaze~
July 18, 2008, 01:15 AM
nice bleach chapter ...
but i think the writer is trying to make more time until the battle begins ...
i mean there was no need for this chapter .. and aizen's plan...
but is this really the only thing aizen has up his sleeves ?
i hope it is ...

and ... GO ICHIGO ... this time i am sure you will win ....
if you dont i am going to be embarassed :darn

gundam_akira
July 18, 2008, 01:23 AM
Nnoitra also claims he's the fastest and strongest of ALL Espada...was he? Nil, he's just no. 5 with 4 other Espadas ABOVE him.

Grimmjow was rude to Ulquiorra all the time but who is MORE superior?

The only Arrancars who have been shown to display hierarchy obedience are the Fracción of respective Espada and ONLY to their respective master (and Aizen).

So, at the moment, we still do not know who the top dog among the 3 Espadas is. We cannot judge based on their attitude and the SUPER HUGE ego of some of them.

Maybe, Barragan also has an inferior complex (similar to Nnoitra and Grimmjow), causing him wants to "grab" the "Boss seat" at every opportunity...

EvolutionIX
July 18, 2008, 01:26 AM
I dont think aizen could care less about loyalty. He is all about big guns...in terms of skills. But thats just my take on aizen.

LoS
July 18, 2008, 01:38 AM
Does it really matter who is 1,2,3? We will find out when we he writes it, dont lose sleep over it.

With that said I am disappointed with this chapter. Ichigo and Ulquioria could have done all of that in 2/3 pages, but somehow it got stretched out to twice as long.

frankwhite4523
July 18, 2008, 01:46 AM
hold on they did not say what will happen in the next chapter i hope there is a bleach next week

samlovesclau
July 18, 2008, 01:50 AM
This is the way i see it.

Barragan looks around and since he sees that stark is not planning anything, he decides to take command and give orders, he is most likely #2, and then he disrespected aizen by saying that he cant give orders in the condition he's at, halibel being the sucker she has always been called him out and he pretty much told her to shut the fuck up, then he sitted down and told everyone that he was gonna give the others and told stark "you better not have a problem with that" because stark is #1 but since he is not giving any orders then barragan is assuming that he wont care, and stark is like "yeah whatever"

I mean seriously, if stark was #3, barragan wouldnt even look at him and say that, he would just give orders straight up.

Also stark was sent for orihime, and even though aizen has sent lower espadas on important missions before (example: ulquiorra) i am pretty sure this one was another indication that stark is #1

C'mon seriously, you guys think espada numero 3 can dissapear in front of ichigo and kenpachi? ichigo can perfectly see ulquiorra's movements and kenpachi is pretty keen to be fooled like that.

I just dont see someone as arrogant as barragan being #1, he's just not epic ownage material, maybe #2 but not #1.

And halibel #1 is laughable, seriously, when in any anime have you ever seen a female character being the top dog? rofl, i can't recall any at the moment, i am not sexist or anything but i just don't see it happening, a male character fits better for the job.

frankwhite4523
July 18, 2008, 01:52 AM
Nnoitra also claims he's the fastest and strongest of ALL Espada...was he? Nil, he's just no. 5 with 4 other Espadas ABOVE him.

Grimmjow was rude to Ulquiorra all the time but who is MORE superior?

The only Arrancars who have been shown to display hierarchy obedience are the Fracción of respective Espada and ONLY to their respective master (and Aizen).

So, at the moment, we still do not know who the top dog among the 3 Espadas is. We cannot judge based on their attitude and the SUPER HUGE ego of some of them.

Maybe, Barragan also has an inferior complex (similar to Nnoitra and Grimmjow), causing him wants to "grab" the "Boss seat" at every opportunity...

where did it state he was the fastest?

and also it showed stark sped for a reason and it's becuz he will fight the only guys in this manga with dual shika's and it also shows in the anime that they are the fastest shimigama

jace89
July 18, 2008, 01:57 AM
This is the way i see it.

Barragan looks around and since he sees that stark is not planning anything, he decides to take command and give orders, he is most likely #2, and then he disrespected aizen by saying that he cant give orders in the condition he's at, halibel being the sucker she has always been called him out and he pretty much told her to shut the fuck up, then he sitted down and told everyone that he was gonna give the others and told stark "you better not have a problem with that" because stark is #1 but since he is not giving any orders then barragan is assuming that he wont care, and stark is like "yeah whatever"

I mean seriously, if stark was #3, barragan wouldnt even look at him and say that, he would just give orders straight up.

Also stark was sent for orihime, and even though aizen has sent lower espadas on important missions before (example: ulquiorra) i am pretty sure this one was another indication that stark is #1

C'mon seriously, you guys think espada numero 3 can dissapear in front of ichigo and kenpachi? ichigo can perfectly see ulquiorra's movements and kenpachi is pretty keen to be fooled like that.

I just dont see someone as arrogant as barragan being #1, he's just not epic ownage material, maybe #2 but not #1.

And halibel #1 is laughable, seriously, when in any anime have you ever seen a female character being the top dog? rofl, i can't recall any at the moment, i am not sexist or anything but i just don't see it happening, a male character fits better for the job.

No you don't get it.

Maybe 3 years ago barragan was the king and ruler of all las noches and the espada. Then aizen came and took the thrown from barrengan so he might have a little hatred for aizen. So the moment aizen is away barrangan turns back to when he was the king.

Shiro-kun
July 18, 2008, 02:04 AM
I think there is going to Bleach next week, he just had a week break

But anyways interesting chapter, we see Baragan acting like the big guy in the whole situtiution and bad mouthing Halibel&Aizen although. and for the 1,2,2 Espada debate I think this role call
1.Stark(by his subordinates expression)
2.Baragan(telling Halibel not to underestimate him)
3. Halibel (explained above)
although like all just my speculation:)

anyways i wonder why The Espada were so surprise that they were shinigami defences around the pillars

With Ulq vs Ichigo, i want to see how that well turn out ..for some reason its going to odd if Ichigo wins alone

someguy0830
July 18, 2008, 02:29 AM
He shouldn't be able to win no matter what stops he pulls out. Something has to intervene for him to win. Even picking up cero likely wouldn't cover the gap.

eddy26
July 18, 2008, 02:40 AM
I think by the way things have turned out this chapter it pretty much locks up at least my opinion that Halibel is 3. Baragan 1 or 2 well it all depends on how you look at it yes he is arrogant and that might make him seem weak trying to show up the other two. On the other hand if he is primero espada then wouldn't it piss you off that you are the strongest hollow but are being forced to follow a shinigami. It seems Kubo is setting it up that we will see the fraccion and non captains battle it out first. The captains will fight the top three but only after their fraccion are killed. Kubo is probably still thinking about which captains are going to fight against each individual espada. Finally with Ulquiorra drawing his sword we are going to see the fight next chapters no more talking just the swinging of swords. It'll be a long battle and some time during the fight we will see Ichigo's new power up. If Kubo really wants to torture his fans then he could avoid having any battles take place and just switch to see what the four trapped captains are doing. Hopefully he won't go in this direction.

Doombot
July 18, 2008, 02:53 AM
This chapter just showed that Barragan wasn't an idiot. There is still a toss up as to who #1 is though and I can see the point for each and everyone still. No one knows and if Kubo wants to throw a curve ball it will happen. At first glance it would be Barragan but we don't know for sure yet. No point in claiming one thing or another. To me... Barragan just seems the best choice for #1 but that is just me.

I'm still pondering if the Espada can get any stronger. I am waiting for Grimmjaw to eat Noi's corpse. I'm 100% certain that they can still devour each other and gain strength.

gold349
July 18, 2008, 03:02 AM
The best part of the chapter was the "the bitch slap" from Yamma- "you fools", that was awesome, Baragan was being all cocky with "I know it all" and Yamma shut him up. This battle looks as though its going to be more tactics than an all out battle, maybe it will get there but I think its going to start of slow.

notBowen
July 18, 2008, 03:19 AM
Don't know why people are thinking Barragan is such a fucking genius, pretty much all his conclusions were spoonfed to him with information from Aizen beforehand. Seems to me Barragan is no. 2, Halibel 3, Stark 1. Can't know for sure either way at the moment, basing this on Barragan checking if Stark had a "problem" with his barking orders, which I take as an ambiguous admission that he is not the top ranked one there, but that he knew Stark could care less and wouldn't pull rank.

Still guesswork at this point.

Alexis
July 18, 2008, 03:21 AM
Nnoitra also claims he's the fastest and strongest of ALL Espada...was he? Nil, he's just no. 5 with 4 other Espadas ABOVE him.

Grimmjow was rude to Ulquiorra all the time but who is MORE superior?

The only Arrancars who have been shown to display hierarchy obedience are the Fracción of respective Espada and ONLY to their respective master (and Aizen).

So, at the moment, we still do not know who the top dog among the 3 Espadas is. We cannot judge based on their attitude and the SUPER HUGE ego of some of them.

Maybe, Barragan also has an inferior complex (similar to Nnoitra and Grimmjow), causing him wants to "grab" the "Boss seat" at every opportunity...
True. We still don't know which one is the #1 Espada. Especially considering the way it's been revealed so far has been through showing the tattoo, often in a surprising moment. While Baragan giving orders seems to indicate that he's number one, it doesn't mean anything yet. A lot of people were made to believe that Ulquiorra was the highest, but he wasn't.

I hope Halibel is #1. But I mainly believe (or used to believe) that Baragan is #1.

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 03:28 AM
This week's chapter was pretty good. To me, and pretty much everyone else, I think we can all conclude that Baragan is indeed #1.

I mean not only does he have a crown for crying out loud, but he's also old(which means he has experience), he's in the middle of the three espada, and he's got a fricken throne!!!! and in almost every story, if you have a crown AND a throne, that kinda means youre the king. but in this case Baragan isnt the king, he's just the top espada.

So seeing as how Baragan has all of these assets and was commanding hollows/fraccion around and talking to Halibel as if she was weaker than him just goes to show that he's number one.

I had my doubts before and didnt want to believe it at first but it is inevitable to not believe what is in front of your very eyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok... here's my next thoughts:

Halibel could either be 2 or 3 and the same goes for Stark.

now the reason why I say this is because Halibel has about the same amount of fraccion as Baragan and Stark only has one. and in some cases in stories, a woman is higher ranked than some men but most of the time is never the top dog. another reason is that Halibel could be a kind of "queen" for Baragan, which makes her the second top dog.

Stark seems to be more of the "jack" in this story. He only has one fraccion but then again Noi only had his one espada too, and he was number five. This really isnt an all that great reason but it just seems to me like Kubo would make him lower in rank than Halibel. IDK. its hard to explain.

But as for Halibel being number three, its also possible because she is a woman and is replacing Nel's spot.

Stark being number 2 would just be so that Kubo can have more fun with him and everything like that.

LoS
July 18, 2008, 04:06 AM
He shouldn't be able to win no matter what stops he pulls out. Something has to intervene for him to win. Even picking up cero likely wouldn't cover the gap.

You forget that when Ulquiora first met Ichigo he said that his reiatsu fluctuated from a low level to one even higher than his own. The high one was the King Ichigo inside of him.

Ichigo still has not mastered his Bankai. We have seen his counterpart use moves and hand to hand fighting more advanced than Ichigo.

Ichigo still has room to improve while in Vaizard mode.

Alexis
July 18, 2008, 04:17 AM
To me, and pretty much everyone else, I think we can all conclude that Baragan is indeed #1.
How do you figure "pretty much everyone else"?
If you scroll above, the majority seem to still have doubts that Baragan is #1.

Against
notBowen, Doombot, eddy26, EvolutionIX, mgalli, Revan46, gundam_akira, samlovesclau, Shiro-kun

For
iyung, jace89

So I definitely wouldn't say that it's for certain yet, or that it's something pretty much everyone has concluded.

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 04:20 AM
I think that as Ichigo goes further into his fight with Ulq, that we'll see his moves start to progress faster, and the Ulq will take notice to his progress to. So when Ichigo finally starts to learn new moves with his bankai (not necessarily another technique with it but more melee moves).

But when Ichigo takes his new found moves and combines it with other moves and starts to become stronger during the fight, I think, Ulq will be forced into his release and thats what will start to slow things down for a bit and then lead right back up to an incredible fight with the two.

Then before, if and when, Ichigo defeats Ulq, we'll see something brewing within Ichigo and his reiatsu. Something cynical will start to appear from the darkness in his reiatsu and Ichigo will find himself trapped within his own self and left with Shirosaki the controller of his body. (but I know that will not happen, and if it will happen, then not immediately)
[hr]

How do you figure "pretty much everyone else"?
If you scroll above, the majority seem to still have doubts that Baragan is #1.

Against
notBowen, Doombot, eddy26, EvolutionIX, mgalli, Revan46, gundam_akira, samlovesclau, Shiro-kun

For
iyung, jace89

So I definitely wouldn't say that it's for certain yet, or that it's something pretty much everyone has concluded.

ok ok, well ya. I was wrong. my bad.:notrust

What I was trying to say is that pretty much everyone should just come to the conclusion that Baragan is the top espada. But no one has to. Its just a stupid suggestion..

naruto-niichan
July 18, 2008, 05:08 AM
I'm also against this opinion Oo it's too clear that Barragan is Espada No.1 , i think Kubo want to fake us. I believe Barragan is No.2 , Halibel No.3 and Stark No.1 , but we will see it in the next chapters ;D

Something other: Am I the only one who is surprised about how detailed the Espadas are informed about Soul Society's Plans? o__O It seems like Aizen knows EVERYTHING ^^ Maybe there's a fourth betrayer....

LoS
July 18, 2008, 05:11 AM
It seems like Aizen knows EVERYTHING

Its like chess, Aizen is making the first move and forcing SS into counter moves; all of which Aizen can easily guess, because SS goes about a standard protocol.

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 05:28 AM
Aizen is pretty much ahead of the game right now. And he probably does know many things but surely not everything.

OMFG!!! I just though of something. Aizen said directly to Ichigo just before he left HM that he was gonna come back and have to fun with him or something like that. and he also left Orihime in that throne room and left Ulquiorra in charge of protecting HM. Aizen knows how Ulq thinks and probably already thought everything out. He knew that by leaving Orihime with Ulq that Ichigo would show up eventually and Ulq would surely battle him. Then I guess he knows that something will happen during the battle will give Ichigo the win and by the time he is done, he's near death or dead and Orihime will heal him up. Then shortly after Aizen will return and do something with Ichigo by kind of "testing" him out.

Its just a thought
[hr]

Maybe there's a fourth betrayer....

There definitely has to be more traitors within SS. I mean, back in the Gaiden Arc, Aizen was using another shinigami to act as him in his place while he was running around and about. If that shinigami wasn't under the hypnosis himself, then he must've been another traitor.

There's just gotta be more than Aizen, Gin, and Tousen that betrayed SS. But I'm pretty sure that we won't find out about that just yet. Maybe later on in the story because Bleach still has a long way to go.

THE KING
July 18, 2008, 05:43 AM
i still can't see any fights taking place for 3-4 chapters, and that is like a month
it's turning more into dbz, more talking, less fights

naruto-niichan
July 18, 2008, 05:56 AM
yeah, kubo make the preparations a bit too long, I really hope the fight will start next week vv

@hyn_pride93 lol a interesting tought... XD about the betrayers : yes i think the same like you, Aizen is not so foolish to leave SS with all his companions Oo

ryanzokuken
July 18, 2008, 05:58 AM
i still think think taht stark could be number one for a few reasons shown in this chapters...
barragan looks to stark and says " you better not have a problem with that" and stark replies "sure why not...like he doesnt care taht barragan gives orders even though he is the 1st espada" then lilnette kicks stark and is like "ill tell you why not...first of all..." leading me to assume that Lilnette is basically saying "you cant let him do that, your the first espada!"


i think that Stark is too lazy and doesnt care enough to give out orders, so Aizen has Barragan doing all of that.

agreed. it was like he was saying "i'll take charge!" *looks to Stark* "there's no way you have a problem with that, am i right ya lazy bastard?"

and Stark's like "yea, whatever, go ahead."

1-Stark
2-Baragan
3-Halibel


anyways, decent chapter. Ikkaku and Yumichika are here! :D

let's go, Ichigo! kick that goth clown's ass!


btw; wtf? i guess Yama can keep the fire prison going without holding it there with his sword? that's a little ridiculous. i wonder if he'll be able to take part in the fighting and still have the concentration to keep the prison going.

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 06:21 AM
wow... I guess you were right Alexis. hehe (embarassed)

I'm making such a fool out of myself by just going by what I see. But maybe Kubo really is just trying play around with us. I mean the whole Stark being number one thing is really starting to kick in now. I really don't think that Halibel is number one. I mean rarely do we ever see the female as the dominat character in the story. Stark is the type of man the really just wants to take shots of sake and chillax on the couch and just do nothing.

I really am such a fool. I'm constantly falling for the obvious and then switching my thoughts at the very end just to be apart of everything else. although sometimes I am right on the dot with my opinions, for example: I predicted with my friend that Orochimaru made it seem that Sasuke had defeated him by obsorbing him into his body. Then wait in his body until Sasuke fought Itachi and defeated him or until both of them were weak and then take that opprotunity to attack them and then use their body for his own.

I know that has nothing to do with Bleach but I thought that I would just throw that in there. tee hee

but as for Stark being number one... I see as being the truth. He does after all only have one fraccion and when Baragan spoke to him, Baragan didn't have that same intensity in his voice as he did with Halibel. Stark just needs to show us his number already so that we can all have our fun.

THE KING
July 18, 2008, 06:36 AM
stark is just a possible opponent for our very own lazy mr. soul society
he can't be 1

Mythsoul
July 18, 2008, 06:38 AM
great chapter....all the preparations for the fights are done.....espadas know where they need to go .....the shinigamis..are waiting for them there....we are still wondering who the #1 Espada is ....Baragan seem to want to be the one to command......I don't think he is either.....the strongest one...never reveals himself at the very beginning......he ways all cool....

I want to see what Ichigo is gonna pull outta his ass to win agaisnt Ulquiorra though....as he is....he has no chance.....mofo better take full control of his hollow....

THE KING
July 18, 2008, 06:40 AM
I want to see what Ichigo is gonna pull outta his ass to win agaisnt Ulquiorra though....as he is....he has no chance.....mofo better take full control of his hollow....
hope orihime does some fighting this time, not like combat but may be do somethin that helps ichigo win

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 06:54 AM
what if Ichigo isnt the one that wins the fight. what if its Orihime that does it.

this is how it would play out:

Ichigo gives a beating to Ulq from some unknown source, but then Ulq releases and pwns him and beats him up so much that he's left to die. Orihime sees Ichigo on the ground and gasping for breath just like how she saw Chad. But something starts to rumble from within her and gives her the power to create an even stronger tsubaki. with her eyes glowing firey red and her reiatsu blazing around her, she fires tsubaki straight into Ulq and dramatically weakens him. then when he's on the ground, rejects his entire being within seconds. Orihime frowns at him, says something only a badass would say then have Ulq vanish before Ichigo's eyes, and then snap out of her some what "trance" and faint from exhaustion

totally out of nowhere... but plz if u have any thoughts on it, feel free to share. but if ur gonna bitch on it do it with some integrity

Alexis
July 18, 2008, 07:02 AM
wow... I guess you were right Alexis. hehe (embarassed)

I'm making such a fool out of myself by just going by what I see. But maybe Kubo really is just trying play around with us. I mean the whole Stark being number one thing is really starting to kick in now. I really don't think that Halibel is number one. I mean rarely do we ever see the female as the dominat character in the story. Stark is the type of man the really just wants to take shots of sake and chillax on the couch and just do nothing.
Well anyone could be #1. You're not making a fool of yourself for stating your own oppinion. I just thought it was a bit premature to conclude it for sure or to say that this is what most people will think as well. (As you could see.)

I think all of the top three espada have things going for them and against them. The thing about Stark is that his type seems similar to his Soul Society counterpart, Shunsui. And as we know, Shunsui isn't #1, but the old man is. Which is what mainly pointed to Baragan being #1. Then again, perhaps Aizen should be considered the strongest, in which case Stark could be #1 and still be inferior to his leader, just like Shunsui.

But as strange as it may seem, the way Baragan acted in this weeks chapter raised my doubts about him being the top Espada. You'd think that it would be a sign of superiority. But then again, if #4 was revealed in such a dramatic way, then I think #1 would be as well. So if Baragan really was #1, then by acting like this, he would have already given away the surprise, before his tattoo is shown, if you catch my drift?

Or maybe that's what Kubo wants us to think... lol. It's confusing.
Halibel, as a few have mentioned, is female, and it's rare for a female fighter to be the strongest. But personaly I regard Yoruichi is one of the strongest Captains in SS, or at least think she is, the way she took care of Yammi with ease without even using Shunko or her Zanpaktou (which we haven't seen yet) while Hitsugaya for example couldn't even harm Yammi without his Bankai.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6772/kgkhkhggh6.png

Also worth noting perhaps is that Halibel seemed the least concerned that the assault on the pillars failed.
The other two look shocked and have their pupils constricted, while Halibel only gave it a glance and didn't show any surprised expression.


I predicted with my friend that Orochimaru made it seem that Sasuke had defeated him by obsorbing him into his body. Then wait in his body until Sasuke fought Itachi and defeated him or until both of them were weak and then take that opprotunity to attack them and then use their body for his own.
Well about that, I'm not sure what you mean by "made it seem" because Sasuke always knew of Orochimaru's presence in his body. It was said that Sasuke suppressed Orochimaru by using a bit of his chakra to "weigh him down" so to say. But in the fight against Itachi, when sasuke was almost out of chakra, he used the cursed seal to draw out every bit of chakra he had left. Including the chakra he used to suppress Orochimaru. That's why he surfaced.
Even Itachi was aware of this, and deliberately pushed Sasuke to the edge, just so that Orochimaru would surface, and he could set him free.
But even though the characters in the manga seemed to be aware of Orochimaru's situation, it came as a surprise to us readers.

THE KING
July 18, 2008, 07:03 AM
Ichigo gives a beating to Ulq from some unknown source, but then Ulq releases and pwns him and beats him up so much that he's left to die. Orihime sees Ichigo on the ground and gasping for breath just like how she saw Chad. But something starts to rumble from within her and gives her the power to create an even stronger tsubaki. with her eyes glowing firey red and her reiatsu blazing around her, she fires tsubaki straight into Ulq and dramatically weakens him. then when he's on the ground, rejects his entire being within seconds. Orihime frowns at him, says something only a badass would say then have Ulq vanish before Ichigo's eyes, and then snap out of her some what "trance" and faint from exhaustion
U got really excited there, no way kubo would do something that silly.

Anyway, apart from dreaming, i surely think it's high time that orihime did something instead of just looking on.
This is the time to awaken some power in her(if she has any worthily for a fight) Ichigo is surely gonna have nose up deep this time.

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 07:31 AM
^haha I did get a little carried away with that one. :lmao

but as for this whole ranking of Halibel, Stark, and Baragan, I am getting so damn confused. One part of me wants Stark to be number one and another wants Baragan because of all of the superior aspects of the situation. then I look back at everyone's posts and start to really think. what if it turns out that Nel is gonna be the new and improved espada. having her mind screwed with and stuff and then unleashed on SS with her bad self.

Tsukisama
July 18, 2008, 07:44 AM
This was interesting chapter. I hope that by next chapter Kubo stops hopping back and forth between fake KK Town and HM. Although it is nice to see glimpses of what everyone is doing, we are really only getting small scenes, and we will only get large amounts of development when he decides to start focusing on one of the two areas of action.

I liked how Barragan has finally gotten some characterization, and his personality definitely matches his hollow mask (the crown-looking thing). He is confident (perhaps bordering on arrogant), grandiose (he has his minions unfurl some cloth that releases bones that form a throne for him to sit on :blink), and a tactician. I think his personality definitely adds a new element to the espada (i.e., each of their personalities seem very different, which is a good thing.)

As to whom the #1 espada is, it is still very much up in the air for any of the three given the information from this chapter. Barragan is giving out orders and taking charge, which could be a sign of his leadership. Halibel questions Barragan, and after he tells her that she is also disrespecting him, he inquires if Stark also has anything to say about his taking command. Then, Stark's fraccion harangues him about just going along with it, and one of Halibel's fraccion mouths off to Stark and his fraccion about their commotion. These things say very much about each of the espada.

Obviously, Barragan's characterization in this chapter with the throne, the bossiness, being in the center, etc. could all support claims that he is primero espada. One thing against this is, as Alexis said, it would be rather obvious and blunt if Kubo were to reveal the #1 espada like this, and I am also hoping that Kubo chooses a more subtle option.

Stark is another candidate for #1. His carefree persona definitely suggests that he is a very strong character. When Barragan inquired about Stark's opinion on him taking lead, it could be interpreted two ways: either Barragan was checking with Stark for permission or Barragan merely asked because Halibel had something to say and wanted to just assert his authority. If the former is the case, then Stark would be head of Barragan in rank and more likely to be #1. Lilinette's objection to Stark just going with the flow could also be a hint that he is of a higher rank than Barragan (or it could just be that she thinks he should have voiced more of an opinion like Halibel), but like everyone else in support of Stark has said, his responses could be attributed to his lazy attitude.

Halibel is also still a candidate for the top spot. Halibel was the first one to speak against Barragan's actions, and although she did not respond when he said that she should not underestimate him, Halibel's reserved attitude could also be used in her defense just like Stark's lazy attitude. She did not seem intimidated at all by Barragan, and thus she may have decided to merely sit back and watch his plans unfold. Halibel's fraccion, Mira Rose, telling Stark and Lilinette to shut up may also be an indication that Halibel is of higher rank than Stark, since it may be that Mira Rose would not have been so bold unless she felt confident that Stark would not be able to retaliate against her with her mistress beside her for protection.

My personal wish has been and still is for Halibel to be #1, but it is unlikely as ever, because like others have said, female characters are not usually the strongest of the group in shounen manga. :( Anything, however, is still possible, and any one of the three could be primero.

THE KING
July 18, 2008, 08:01 AM
Halibel is also still a candidate for the top spot. Halibel was the first one to speak against Barragan's actions, and although she did not respond when he said that she should not underestimate him, Halibel's reserved attitude could also be used in her defense just like Stark's lazy attitude. She did not seem intimidated at all by Barragan, and thus she may have decided to merely sit back and watch his plans unfold. Halibel's fraccion, Mira Rose, telling Stark and Lilinette to shut up may also be an indication that Halibel is of higher rank than Stark, since it may be that Mira Rose would not have been so bold unless she felt confident that Stark would not be able to retaliate against her with her mistress beside her for protection.

That is how most of the lower ranked villains act against the higher ones, always objecting.

as for stark, he is more like, a guy who is qualified to be at the top, but doesn't take up the position.

Tsukisama
July 18, 2008, 08:10 AM
That is how most of the lower ranked villains act against the higher ones, always objecting.

as for stark, he is more like, a guy who is qualified to be at the top, but doesn't take up the position.

Halibel only said one brief line and nothing else. I would not consider it her filling that cliche of lower villains constantly questioning higher villains. She had something to say and did not make a big deal of it, which seems worthy of an upper-level foe. Contrarily, Barragan's snide reply to her seems rather below the station of someone truly powerful, but that's just personal opinion and does not hinder him from possibly being #1.

Stark could be qualified or he might not be. We don't know that much about him, and the demeanor of each of the top 3 espada could suggest being qualified for the top position: Stark the nonchalant powerhouse, Barragan the imposing commander, or Halibel the silent killer.

Starky-08
July 18, 2008, 08:52 AM
I have though Stark was Primero ever since they where introduced and I'm sticking with it too.

When we first say all the espada these where my rankings:

1.Stark
2.Halibel
3.Zomari
4.Ulquiorra(I knew he'd be here)
5.Nnoitora
6.Grimmjow
7.Barragan
8.Szayel
9.Arroniero
10.Yammy

As you can see, from the very start I had already predicted half of the ranks, the only one wrong so far is Zommari is 7th and not 3rd, let's hope the ranks are 1-Stark 2-Halibel and 3-Barragan, this is the way I see it.

It seemed as if Barragan was asking if Stark has any problems, in which he said no, but if he had said yes what might have happened?

hajialibaig
July 18, 2008, 09:24 AM
After reading this chapter, I am gonna say Barragan is indeed #1, for the following obvious reasons (that many people overlooked):

Exchange with Halibel:

-Halibel reminds Barragan not to underestimate Aizen (Since Aizen>Barragan)
-Barragan reminds Halibel not to underestimate him (Implying Barragan > Halibel), using the same logic.

Exchange with Stark:
-After seeing Halibel’s objection, Barragan gets pissed off and says to Stark: “You’d BETTER not have any problems too”. That definitely sounds more like a threat than a “request”, and Barragan wouldn’t have gone so far if he didn’t have anything to back it up (i.e. he has to be #1).

The exchange between the top 3 espada basically shows the conflicting interests that have araised with the introduction of Aizen into Hueco Mundo. Barragan was the king of hollows and the top espada (his crown, and the throne, pretty much say that), and everyone was under his command. But now since Aizen has arrived, the lower ranked espada have to be loyal to Aizen the foremost. This led Halibel to diss Barragan, but Barragan reminded her that he’s pretty much the king, and she needs to respect him too.
Also notice how that exchange made Barragan more intense when questioning Stark (he gives him a cold eye) and says “You’d better not disrespect me, or I’ll pwn ya” LOL , that was hilarious.

Best part of the chapter: Barragan snaping his fingers for the throne to be released

lordHokage
July 18, 2008, 09:35 AM
Aizen is pretty much ahead of the game right now. And he probably does know many things but surely not everything.

OMFG!!! I just though of something. Aizen said directly to Ichigo just before he left HM that he was gonna come back and have to fun with him or something like that. and he also left Orihime in that throne room and left Ulquiorra in charge of protecting HM. Aizen knows how Ulq thinks and probably already thought everything out. He knew that by leaving Orihime with Ulq that Ichigo would show up eventually and Ulq would surely battle him. Then I guess he knows that something will happen during the battle will give Ichigo the win and by the time he is done, he's near death or dead and Orihime will heal him up. Then shortly after Aizen will return and do something with Ichigo by kind of "testing" him out.

Its just a thought


I like your thought, it's very interesting. Since Aizen wants Ichigo, he’s only using his enemies aka Hollows as a diversion tactics to keep Soul Society busy, he could careless what happens to them because he knows he can’t defeat Soul Society with his hollow powers. I slightly disagree with you on Orihime healing a near death Ichigo, when she realizes that her powers have limits, Ichigo would heal himself with his hidden powers and that’s what Aizen is after. :blink

Is Barragan sitting on a throne and he's so inexperienced to take General Yama-sama on. Overall, this chapter was awesome. :D

hajialibaig
July 18, 2008, 09:37 AM
Also notice how Barragan is shown sitting on the throne on a full page...--> "you're looking at the #1, eh"

Darth Executor
July 18, 2008, 09:45 AM
Order I want them to be in:

1. Stark
2. Barragan
3. Hallibel

Order they're most likely in:
1. Barragan
2. Hallibel
3. Stark

Hallibel and Barragan have deviations from the normal Arrancar uniform (Barragan has his champion belt and hallibel has her half exposed boobs and mask over her face). However, since Hallibel's is likely there to hide something while Barragan's is just to show off I'm thinking Barragan's #1. Stark otoh has nothing unique.

Starzen
July 18, 2008, 09:59 AM
great chapter and kubo better stick with one fight, this thing with ichigo giving a speach before a fight is getting old. In defense to halibel my favorite espada is that when ichigo and co. first got to hm and during the espada meeting, the same thing happend with noitora and we know what his rank is. It's always the weakest ones who bark the most.

eddy26
July 18, 2008, 10:19 AM
At this point I hope someone rips Halibel's clothes off during a battle and we will clearly be able to see her tattoo on her boobs. Seriously though the one person that is starting to annoy me is Soifon's VC. He freaked out when he felt Aizen's and the espada reiatsu. In this chapter he freaked out when Baragan sent hollows to the four pillars. He has to be the dumbest character ever did he really think Yama would have left the pillars unprotected. If I were Soifon I'd send him back to SS someone as cowardly and dumb like that shouldn't be in the battlefield. I'm hoping that he is one of the shinigami's that get killed.

seiyouko
July 18, 2008, 10:22 AM
been reading posts for months and finally got registered...
gotta say something...

my take on the whole "who is No. 1" thing
i saw people talking about KT giving out surprise, so Baragan couldn't be No. 1. well, isn't it even more surprising to see Halibel is No. 1 then? At least, most of us didn't think Ulq is 4 and THAT is really a surprise. I really like all the possibilities.
Besides, we see Ulq been shut up by 5 and 6 before, so Baragan isn't necessarily above Halibel in that sense.
And lastly, isn't Baragan just ordering around the "random hollows"? He's not saying things like "Stark, you go there and there" or "Halibel you do that and that"

Counting those in, I think Baragan actually is least likely to be the top.
[hr]

At this point I hope someone rips Halibel's clothes off during a battle and we will clearly be able to see her tattoo on her boobs. Seriously though the one person that is starting to annoy me is Soifon's VC. He freaked out when he felt Aizen's and the espada reiatsu. In this chapter he freaked out when Baragan sent hollows to the four pillars. He has to be the dumbest character ever did he really think Yama would have left the pillars unprotected. If I were Soifon I'd send him back to SS someone as cowardly and dumb like that shouldn't be in the battlefield. I'm hoping that he is one of the shinigami's that get killed.

Yeah I really wonder why Soifon use that dumb as VP at the start

lordlaureon
July 18, 2008, 10:48 AM
i really think Stark is #1

look at this two pages http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318.1/12/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318.1/13/

for me what barragan said it's directed to stark, and he answers ''sure, why not ?'' .
Why barragan would say that if he is stronger than stark ? if he is stronger he just can do whatever he wants without asking in a certain way to anybody.

in my opnion the top 3

1.stark
2.barragan
3.hallibel

mdp
July 18, 2008, 10:56 AM
i really think Stark is #1

look at this two pages http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318.1/12/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318.1/13/

for me what barragan said it's directed to stark, and he answers ''sure, why not ?'' .
Why barragan would say that if he is stronger than stark ? if he is stronger he just can do whatever he wants without asking in a certain way to anybody.

in my opnion the top 3

1.stark
2.barragan
3.hallibel

good point i agree. I am pretty certain that is the order. :)

fingerz46
July 18, 2008, 11:22 AM
Anyone notice the change in Ichigo's eyes? I dont think we will see hollow mode to start off with.

Revan46
July 18, 2008, 12:43 PM
Why are you guys so weird about not having Halibel as number one?! Your so sexist with this in my opinion. Why can't you just say that maybe Halibel is truthfully number one, and just doesn't care about anything except respecting Aizen. Jeez...

patz
July 18, 2008, 12:54 PM
To people who think Barragan isn't #1, does it make any sense if Nnoitora or Grimmjow say "I'll be giving orders. You'd better not have a problem with that"?

mdp
July 18, 2008, 12:55 PM
Why are you guys so weird about not having Halibel as number one?! Your so sexist with this in my opinion. Why can't you just say that maybe Halibel is truthfully number one, and just doesn't care about anything except respecting Aizen. Jeez...

I dont think anyone would care if she was number one, but its just not the norm in a shonen manga for a women to be most powerful... Sexist? No, no. Realist.

hajialibaig
July 18, 2008, 02:27 PM
To people who think Barragan isn't #1, does it make any sense if Nnoitora or Grimmjow say "I'll be giving orders. You'd better not have a problem with that"?

Yea, my point exactly in the earlier post..anyway, let's just wait for the tatoos to be revealed. From what we have seen in this chapter, Barragan not being #1 would make little to no sense, I hope Kubo understands that.

hossice
July 18, 2008, 02:36 PM
well we didn't see Szayels or zommaris tatoos. which is y i have some doubts. but they r small. szayels had to be on his leg or somewhere below the waiste cuz he had his shirt flamed off and it wasn't on his uper half.

it wouldn't make sense w/ this ch. if barragan wasn't #1 but w/ starks lilinet saying those things those could back up TK reasons for stark to be #1.

its not being sexist. Halibel might be #2 cuz soifon is 2 captain and they could show down if that was the case. i know 2 cap. has nothing to do w/ power but w/ the numbers is what im lookin at w/ these girls.

hajialibaig
July 18, 2008, 03:01 PM
Yea, not sure what Lilinet was saying, doesn't she kick Stark all the time though, so nothing new (for all we know it could be just another insignificant kick as always, much like Hyori & Shinji's little fights)

But yea, quoting Barragan's line "You'd BETTER have no problems with this" (puting emphasis on a certain word), gives me the idea that it's a warning, and Barragan wouldn't hesitate to pwn whoever disobeys him (obviously he couldn't say that without backing it up)

Addition: And yea, how does being a captain of the division "2" imply ur the second strongest? beats me...

And yea, please no body bring up that "Can Ichigo be a Vastolorde" crap again, that defies all logic too

Starzen
July 18, 2008, 03:27 PM
the same logic with baragan being 1st espada and how many times do intend to repeat yourself.

Starky-08
July 18, 2008, 03:40 PM
Anyone think there could be another Gaiden some time? maybe not soon but at all, and its about the espada and there past.

Tsukisama
July 18, 2008, 04:36 PM
Anyone think there could be another Gaiden some time? maybe not soon but at all, and its about the espada and there past.

Rather off-topic, but yes, I think there is a possibility for another gaiden. I do not, however, think that Kubo would devote a gaiden to the espada. They are villains whose histories likely won't be explored in depth, because unlike the pasts of Urahara and the vizards, the pasts of the espada won't likely have many implications on the future once the espada are defeated. If another gaiden occurs, it will likely center on Isshin.

Anyway, back on topic. :hbunny

lordlaureon
July 18, 2008, 04:47 PM
i just can't think of barragan being #1, he may be the most experient, due his age and scars (lol), but if he is the #1 he don't need to say that he is going to give orders, and i guess Halibel is #3 because barragan don't give a sh1t about her but he cares in a certain way with what stark will say and/or do. Imagine that Halibel is #1 and Barragan #2 why would he be worried about #3 (stark) opnion ? and even worst if he is the #1. Due this facts i trully believe stark is #1. if Kubo do otherwise i will be very disappointed and ashamed ^^

hyn_pride93
July 18, 2008, 05:15 PM
Rather off-topic, but yes, I think there is a possibility for another gaiden. I do not, however, think that Kubo would devote a gaiden to the espada. They are villains whose histories likely won't be explored in depth, because unlike the pasts of Urahara and the vizards, the pasts of the espada won't likely have many implications on the future once the espada are defeated. If another gaiden occurs, it will likely center on Isshin.

Anyway, back on topic. :hbunny

Sorry being off topic, plz excuse, but I think that Kubo will do it not only on Isshin but on Kenpachi as well. Kubo did say that he wanted to explore Kenpachi more.
That's fine. I was just listing a possible topic for a future gaiden; Kenpachi is also possible :hbunny

Anyways, back on topic. :p

In the next chapter we won't see the greatest action there is, but we will see some clashing of swords. But I don't think that we'll see continuous fighting for about 2-3 chapters more. As for now, we'll still have some very little explanations going on, and then go str8 into the fights.

I really hope that whoever the top espada is, He/She has an incredible fight. As for the opponent of the Premier Espada, I really hope that He/She is able defeat em. If its Stark, I would expect another combo fight with Shunsui and Ukitake vs. Stark and Liline or just Stark.

But if its Halibel, then Soi Fon and Yoruichi. I say Yoruichi because I don't think that she'll just leave Soi Fon on her own to die. and I say that these three would fight because come on... don't all of us wanna see another chick fight? We haven't had an all girl fight for quite some time. and I don't think we wanna see one of the good guys beating up a girl because thats just mean. :p

Raizen
July 18, 2008, 08:10 PM
From the beginning I believed stark to be number one and halibel to be number 2. The old man to me was never someone I saw was strong, maybe 4 or 5. But now maybe he is number 3.

Also is it halibel or haribel??

And just how far are the pillars from the captains b/c if the espada attack the VC, they won't be able to protect the pillars

Darth Executor
July 18, 2008, 08:26 PM
From the beginning I believed stark to be number one and halibel to be number 2. The old man to me was never someone I saw was strong, maybe 4 or 5. But now maybe he is number 3.

Also is it halibel or haribel??

And just how far are the pillars from the captains b/c if the espada attack the VC, they won't be able to protect the pillars

Like the captains will just let the espada go. If the espada goes for the pillars the captains will be right on their tail.

BigJDelux
July 18, 2008, 08:39 PM
No you don't get it.

Maybe 3 years ago barragan was the king and ruler of all las noches and the espada. Then aizen came and took the thrown from barrengan so he might have a little hatred for aizen. So the moment aizen is away barrangan turns back to when he was the king.

I thought that all of the existing Espada were created with the help of the Hougyokou and the former natural arrancar/espada were replaced with the current ones due to their increased power. How could Barragan exist among them? Just because his mask resembled a crown doesn't make him a former king of anything, that could very well be what Kubo wants you to think.

ALSO, If Orihime's abilities are comparable to a god, she will eventually play a huge fight in the battle to come. So fear not Inoue-haters, she will prove vital to the plot. . . or else she would have all ready died. . . right?:blink

Akihito
July 18, 2008, 08:41 PM
why do most people assume that the female characters will only fight the female characters?

Wire
July 18, 2008, 08:58 PM
The toughest shouldn't have to go all out to prove it.... Ofcourse it doesn't matter. Even if Barragan is the strongest it doesn't mean he will be the most entertaining.

Chapters I hope to see soon:
The Speed Phantom 2 (what happen to Berry-chan's speed?)
Tatoo the Sky 2
Dark Side of the Universe/Black & White [would it be #4 now?]

hossice
July 18, 2008, 09:30 PM
But if its Halibel, then Soi Fon and Yoruichi. I say Yoruichi because I don't think that she'll just leave Soi Fon on her own to die. and I say that these three would fight because come on... don't all of us wanna see another chick fight? We haven't had an all girl fight for quite some time. and I don't think we wanna see one of the good guys beating up a girl because thats just mean. :p

i was thinking about that too. not Halibel being #1. but that fight. since in order 2 be a captain in SS u had to have bankai (kenpachi doesn't count) yoruichi had to have a sword? so she might pull it out this time. maybe shikai and soifon bankai??? hope so.


and i WANT to see Stark vs. the besties (Juushiro & Shunsui). even more i want to see both go bankai and stark release. that would totally make my life 100 X better. until bleach ends then its back to :sleepy

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 01:25 AM
i was thinking about that too. not Halibel being #1. but that fight. since in order 2 be a captain in SS u had to have bankai (kenpachi doesn't count) yoruichi had to have a sword? so she might pull it out this time. maybe shikai and soifon bankai??? hope so.

Yes. Since Yoruichi was once the Captain of Squad 2, she has to have had a sword. Right now all she's been using was her Shunko which is a kind of Kidou attack, and her hand-to-hand combat with her enemies. ohh, and her shunpos! :tem This time though, if Yoruichi truly is going to fight alongside with Soi Fon then we can all expect her to bring out her zanpaktou. If she is as strong as she is made out to be, then I wouldn't expect her to use her zanpaktou until she truly needs to. But when she does, I'm going to go insane because hopefully Kubo will use her Shikai and allow Soi Fon to use her Bankai.



and i WANT to see Stark vs. the besties (Juushiro & Shunsui). even more i want to see both go bankai and stark release. that would totally make my life 100 X better. until bleach ends then its back to :sleepy

Totally!! Seeing Stark battle his counter part and Ukitake would just be the icing on the cake for me.

RAIZEN the female espada's name is Halibel. Haribel was in the manga because of the whole Japanese alphabet thing, and because they have no "L"s, they use "R"s to replace is it. That's why it came out as Haribel and not Halibel. But the correct name is Halibel.
[hr]

I thought that all of the existing Espada were created with the help of the Hougyokou and the former natural arrancar/espada were replaced with the current ones due to their increased power. How could Barragan exist among them? Just because his mask resembled a crown doesn't make him a former king of anything, that could very well be what Kubo wants you to think.

ALSO, If Orihime's abilities are comparable to a god, she will eventually play a huge fight in the battle to come. So fear not Inoue-haters, she will prove vital to the plot. . . or else she would have all ready died. . . right?:blink

Yes. The current espada were all created with the help of the Hougyoku. The only espada that wasnt created by that was the 9th espada, Aaronierro (idk on how to spell his name).

And omfg!!! thank God I'm not the only one that thinks that Orihime will be in a fight soon.
[hr]

why do most people assume that the female characters will only fight the female characters?

I don't think that female characters will ONLY fight female characters. But it's just more fun to watch and on top of that, I don't wanna see a man beatin the shit out of a woman. That's terrible.

BUT... if Halibel fights a male in the upcoming chapters, I hope she takes on someone strong. IDK who... maybe the DYNAMIC DUO or Hitsugaya and Komamura.

hossice
July 19, 2008, 01:54 AM
i actually think that komamura will take out barragan. y? cuz if im right w/ the whos fighting who then hitsugaya like the popularity fag he is will try and race in the fire cuz he has the strongest ice zanpatou and go bankai and go in the fire and try to get to aizen. thats my thought. but he could team up w/ komamura and go for barragan. i hope its a tag battle situation w/ these upcomming battles. but then that can steal the thunder of the 1 vs. 1. and not as many moves. but hey its sword against sword. swords should only have limited abilites. not like 10 abilites but like 3. so if in a tag battle we might see 2. at least 1. but w/ the top 3 and the ex's captains we might see alot of powers.


ichigo might have a true bankai release. like w/ chads arms. and uruyus bow and glove. since they all have wierd powers. just cuz ichi is soul reaper doesnt mean he is a normal soul reaper/ vizard. and orihime could have a true power. where all her flying creatures come together and fire a beam. kinda like cero but in a way not. (maybe see in ichi vs. ulq.?)

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 02:10 AM
ichigo might have a true bankai release. like w/ chads arms. and uruyus bow and glove. since they all have wierd powers. just cuz ichi is soul reaper doesnt mean he is a normal soul reaper/ vizard. and orihime could have a true power. where all her flying creatures come together and fire a beam. kinda like cero but in a way not. (maybe see in ichi vs. ulq.?)

I too don't think that Ichigo is using his BANKAI's true ability. All it gives him is a boost in speed and a slightly different GT. I'm sure that he'll find out what he can really do with his bankai in this battle.

and as for your Orihime "theory" about her fairies coming together to make a beam sounds like something like that could really happen. But the thing is I don't think that it'll be a cero type of attack, but an attack that when fired, whatever touches it will be rejected and vanish. Kind of like a stronger Tsubaki attack.

Assymilum
July 19, 2008, 04:28 AM
Well, for the order, I think it's Stark (3) > Halibel (2) > Barragan (1).

I can't wait for the Ulquiorra vs. Ichigo battle. Ironically, I think Ulquiorra would lose against him. After all, Ichigo is the main character. T_T Nevertheless, I wanna see Ulqui's released form.


why do most people assume that the female characters will only fight the female characters?

Because most of the strong male characters are sexists. And besides, if it resulted that the man won, the viewers would think that it's unfair because he's a man and Halibel's a woman. But vice versa-wise, if the man lose, the number of fans for that guy would definitely decrease. (He's not a man if he loses against a woman.)

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 04:58 AM
Because most of the strong male characters are sexists. And besides, if it resulted that the man won, the viewers would think that it's unfair because he's a man and Halibel's a woman. But vice versa-wise, if the man lose, the number of fans for that guy would definitely decrease. (He's not a man if he loses against a woman.)

Exactly!!! Thank God someone else understands too! I got a pocket got a pocket full of sunshine!!!!! (sorry that song is playing on MTV right now and I'm totally jammin to it. CHEE HEE)

But ya, we've had Male vs. Female battles. Such as Rukia vs. Aaroniero, Rukia vs. Deroy, Orihime vs. Yammi, Yoruichi vs. Yammi. I know some of those fights just had them throwing some attacks at the male but that kind of counts for something doesn't it?

For a man to attack a woman, esp if that man is a favoured character, then that doesn't really make them look good on their end of the battle because he's beating the crap out of a woman. It's just not something that I think Kubo would want to portray to his younger crowd. He shoudn't anyway.

Starzen
July 19, 2008, 05:45 AM
this is a battle scenario at gender does not count, the strong win and the weak lose, it's that simple and stop being sexist. This is not real life but a manga.

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 05:59 AM
but the manga still needs to appeal to the fans as well so that it can keep its fans and all its publicity. to have good and possitive attention towards the manga it has to appeal to a large crowd of people.

I'm not trying to say that Kubo shudnt ever put a Female vs. Male battle ever, but just make the battle appealing to many.

Starzen
July 19, 2008, 06:43 AM
I'm a fan of the female characters, halibel and yoruichi, along with ichigos hollow. For me if halibel where to fight a useless opponent as soifon, I'll be greatly disappointed, the same with yoruichi having to share a fight with soifon. it's about time the guys start dieing aswel.

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 06:48 AM
Well the other reason for why I said that Soi Fon would fight against her would be because Halibel is Soi Fon's counter part. I wouldnt say that Soi Fon is useless. She still has things up her sleeve (oh wait she aint got none :tem). Like her bankai for example and I'm sure that her shikai can do more than just that one technique. That butterfly thing where if it hits the same spot twice you die. Soi Fon is not worthless and it sux that u wud say that. But whats done is done.

Assymilum
July 19, 2008, 07:31 AM
this is a battle scenario at gender does not count, the strong win and the weak lose, it's that simple and stop being sexist. This is not real life but a manga.

I'm just answering a question. I myself don't think that it's gonna be female vs. female and male vs. male fights. I'm guessing that they'll fight in groups, like each 2 or 3 squads will go against an Espada (including their underlings). The others would wait until Yama-jiji's flame goes off and (attempt to) beat the hell outta the traitor trio.

nindo
July 19, 2008, 07:42 AM
good point i agree. I am pretty certain that is the order. :)

There is another sentence said by Barragan that I think hasn't been paid much attention. Barragan tells Hallibel "I think you underestimate me". I know it can be construed in many ways but one inference that can be drawn is also that Hallibel usually considers him incapable (relatively), which would mean Hallibel > Barragan.

With the Stark and Barragan dialogue, it isn't as clear with the choice of words used is "You'd "better" not have a problem with that. It is more a threat than a permission. At the same time lillenet (didn't check the correct spelling for the fracion's name) mentions why she kicked him. "What are you doing going along with him (Barragan) alone". So the argument that Barragan asked for permission isn't very solid. (But this also hints very lightly to the fact that Barragan usually acts this way and people have learned to ignore him by large. Also, suggests that Stark and Barragan might be conflicting espadas who don't see eye to eye usually or maybe Stark pulls Barragan's leg quite often.)

Based on the the afore-mentioned the order would be Hallibel > Barragan > Stark. But that is just on considering it the way I put it forth.I know there are several other interpretations and they are all equally valid at the moment.
(Overall - I think the gap between power of the top three might actually not be as much as between the others below number 4). How would it be if the three are actually equally powerful? That would be a twist.

hossice
July 19, 2008, 08:34 AM
ok. just thought of something. i think it was aizen that said the captains were STUCK IN HM. right? so that doesn't mean people cant GET IN. urahra??? urahara might get in and help ichigo. and tessai vs. yammi? dobut that. and then he can get all of them out of HM? maybe show kisuke w/ a hollow mask???

Starzen
July 19, 2008, 08:51 AM
and when would kisuke have gotten that mask? @ nindo : good theory and for me I'd say baragan is weaker than those two, taking your view on halibel and fact that he'd even ask stark if he has a problem with him taking charge.

jinx05
July 19, 2008, 09:04 AM
good day everyone..

nice chapter..

i just noticed something about the past chapters. as you can see every member of the gotie 13 are present at the scene except i was wondering if where could ise nanao be? she is the only shinigami i haven't seen so far. vizards + urahara kisuke + kurosaki isshin gonna whoop some arrancar + traitor shinigami butts... hehe

can't wait for the following chapters!!!

prediction:
-we get to see for the first time hisagi shuuhei on action with his zanpaktou..
-also maybe we get to see ise nanao on action to with her zanpaktou..
-also we will see yachiru's zanpaktou also..
-gonna be a kickass chapter as always

>peace out

Alexis
July 19, 2008, 10:07 AM
for me what barragan said it's directed to stark, and he answers ''sure, why not ?'' .
Why barragan would say that if he is stronger than stark ? if he is stronger he just can do whatever he wants without asking in a certain way to anybody.
As far as I know, Espada aren't allowed to give orders to other Espada, no matter what number they are. Only Aizen gives them orders. So whether Barragan was #1 or #10, it shouldn't make any difference in his position of giving out orders. He only took initiative and basically told Stark that he should go along with it.
Right now I don't think that means anything except that Barragan sees himself fit to make the right decisions in battle.

Interesting to note though perhaps is that his order went against what Aizen suggested, and it was the wrong choice. And Hallibel disagreed with Barragan.


There is another sentence said by Barragan that I think hasn't been paid much attention. Barragan tells Hallibel "I think you underestimate me". I know it can be construed in many ways but one inference that can be drawn is also that Hallibel usually considers him incapable (relatively), which would mean Hallibel > Barragan.
That's another way to look at it, yes.

Right now I think it's hard to determine who's the strongest of them. And I suspect it will be revealed by the showing of the tattoos, and not their actions.

Starky-08
July 19, 2008, 12:34 PM
I really don't think Barragan is 1st, come on like he's too, how do I say this STUPID he acts like a fool, it's either Stark or Halibel, Stark looks shocked all the time because he like's to joke around, or is just tired and he wasn't expecting, flames and the 4 guys.

darkband
July 19, 2008, 12:39 PM
good day everyone..

nice chapter..

i just noticed something about the past chapters. as you can see every member of the gotie 13 are present at the scene except i was wondering if where could ise nanao be? she is the only shinigami i haven't seen so far. vizards + urahara kisuke + kurosaki isshin gonna whoop some arrancar + traitor shinigami butts... hehe

can't wait for the following chapters!!!

prediction:
-we get to see for the first time hisagi shuuhei on action with his zanpaktou..
-also maybe we get to see ise nanao on action to with her zanpaktou..
-also we will see yachiru's zanpaktou also..
-gonna be a kickass chapter as always

>peace out

You forget Hinamori, who may be useless in this fight, but is still technically a VC. right now I think that making a guess on the order of the top 3 is pointless. If there is something that indicates what there rank might be, you can't trust it because it may be there to throw you off. As for next chapter I think it will show Yama telling Barragan that he's a senile old man, then cut to the beginning of the Ichigo Ulquiorra fight.

Mythsoul
July 19, 2008, 03:30 PM
You forget Hinamori, who may be useless in this fight, but is still technically a VC. right now I think that making a guess on the order of the top 3 is pointless. If there is something that indicates what there rank might be, you can't trust it because it may be there to throw you off. As for next chapter I think it will show Yama telling Barragan that he's a senile old man, then cut to the beginning of the Ichigo Ulquiorra fight.

I really doubt Hinamori will have any participation on this confrontation ..she still messed up in the head from Aizen incident back in Soul Society...she still thinks Aizen is a good dude...man he did brain washed her good...

now what i'm expecting ....is the presence of the Vaizards....in this fight.....after the Pendulum series...and everyone popping out in the town....they have yet to revealed themselfs...and I also doubt that Ishidas and Ichigos dad are sleeping with the rest of the town In Soul Society...what will their roles be...will they help ...SS..if things get too hairy...??..any thoughts?

Grimjaww
July 19, 2008, 04:03 PM
I really don't think Barragan is 1st, come on like he's too, how do I say this STUPID he acts like a fool, it's either Stark or Halibel, Stark looks shocked all the time because he like's to joke around, or is just tired and he wasn't expecting, flames and the 4 guys.

I agree with you, notice that when Stark agreed for Barrigan to take charge his subordinate kicked him in the ass. The only reason for this to happen is A. If he's the #1 Espada and should take control, or B. He is atleast the 2nd Espada. It seems as if Halibel does not care if Barrigan takes control or not, she already seems stronger and smarter than Barrigan, probably letting him look like a fool, which he already seemed to accomplish. Once again we see a classic expression from Stark!! : )

JeffS
July 19, 2008, 04:28 PM
Kubo's kiiiiiind of being a dick. We've been waiting months for the top 3 Espada to be revealed and now he's just dragging it out.

On the surface it would appear that old POS is number one, with his candy crown and bone throne.

If you look slightly deeper and study his "you better not have a problem" comment it may seem that he is addressing a 'higher up'.

Stark's Privaron's comment could show a true superiority or she might just be a bitch when it comes to chain of command, like Grim and Nnoi.

Then of course Halibel's just sitting there and Kubo might feel like being fresh and throwing everyone for a loop by unveiling the quiet girl as the Primero. Whoa, that's wacky!


This is the way i see it.
Also stark was sent for orihime, and even though aizen has sent lower espadas on important missions before (example: ulquiorra) i am pretty sure this one was another indication that stark is #1

That's probably the most legit foreshadowing point I've seen concerning Stark's Primero possibility. But who knows. Kubo's set it up so it's more or less completely unpredictable.

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 05:08 PM
I agree with you, notice that when Stark agreed for Barrigan to take charge his subordinate kicked him in the ass. The only reason for this to happen is A. If he's the #1 Espada and should take control, or B. He is atleast the 2nd Espada. It seems as if Halibel does not care if Barrigan takes control or not, she already seems stronger and smarter than Barrigan, probably letting him look like a fool, which he already seemed to accomplish. Once again we see a classic expression from Stark!! : )

At first I myself was falling for the whole Baragan being number one thing. But now that I've read some of the posts from people about this whole situation. I too also think that Stark in number one. Why else would Liline do that to him, and why would Baragan need to say that comment to Stark in the first place? If Baragan really was the first, then wouldn't you think that he'd ignore their thoughts and just do whatever he felt like.

For me, I'm kind of starting to think that Baragan is number three now. I think that Halibel is number two and Stark is one. IDK. Halibel just kind of seems like she was made not only to be one of the top three espada, but to also be the "queen" or "partner" for the 1st espada. I know that sounds really stupid, but it could also happen. It was as if Kubo made Halibel not to just fill in for Nel's place, but to also become a stronger female espada and be the top espada's companion (if it were a male, and in this case I think it is).

genkizen
July 19, 2008, 05:43 PM
You know it's not to hard to believe that Barragon is No.3. We've seen multiple espada that don't respect the chain of command (IE Grimmjow and Noitra). So it's definitely possible. I used to believe that Barragon is number 1, but now it really looks like it could be any of them.

What would be crazy is if the top three espada are actually ranked equally, they're just really far above all other espada. I think there would be an online riot of spamming if that were the case...:notrust

hajialibaig
July 19, 2008, 06:23 PM
All of this Espada ranking thing that is going on here is highly subjective; fanboys/girls will go the distance (making up their own logic along the way) to prove that their Espada is #1.

Anyway, the rankings shall be put to rest only through revealing the tatoos..

In the mean time, my predictions to the upcoming chapter:

-Useless chit-chat between Ichigo and Ulq..no action expected

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 06:28 PM
I think that there will definitely be some convos going on. But hello... that's to be expected because I don't think we've ever had a chapter where all theyre doing is fighting fighting fighting. theres always talk.

ShaunMati1
July 19, 2008, 06:38 PM
Well it depends on the convos...i kinda liked the last chapter but heres what i was talking about http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/04/
Thats a waste of one page....again we have orihime saying kuro...saki...for the millionth time in this arc and then http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/06/
Another waste of a page...i know that is supposed to be a dramatic scene, but did it really have to be a full page. Thats what i mean pages are being wasted sometimes as long kubo can keep that to a minimum and use every panel wisely then im fine

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 06:57 PM
oooooooh!!! I see what you're saying. Kubo most likely does it so that he can take up space and make his readers get all ansy for the next chapter to start. I hate how they made that whole page of just Ulq drawing his sword. Why didn't they just make it a panel of his sword being pulled out and with his little comment there? sheesh

Wire
July 19, 2008, 07:16 PM
I would really like it if Ichigo used strategy or technique to win this fight. the whole "focused will power" thing is getting old...

Also, I don't think Kubo cares about gender in his fights. Grimmjaw thrust his hand through Rukia's stomach, tried to blow her head off, and brutalized his servants and he didn't lose any fans. Besides Professional's who challenge eachother should be prepared to to lose regardless of gender. Chivalry would be sexist in that situaion.

Akihito
July 19, 2008, 07:56 PM
i agree kubo doesnt seem to care but alot of people keep saying soifon vs hailbel which personally sounds like a beat down on soifon to me. considering the vizards coming, though im still not sure which side they're on. If they are on the shinigami side i would like to shunsui and risa fighting side by side...ukitake can fight with someone else:s

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 08:33 PM
I don't get why some of us are still wondering which side the Vizards are on. Obviously, they're not gonna be on Aizen's side. Shinji knows exactly what he was gonna do to all of them and told them already of what had happened. The same goes for Urahara who told them what happened after they had all pretty much passed out.

Kisuke is their savior. He couldn't bring them back to the complete shinigami side but he at least was able to save their lives. Although their lives back in SS had terminated the second that they became hollows.

Whichever side Kisuke chooses to assist, will be the side that the vizards will be on. They owe it to him to do that. As for Aizen, they owe him whoop ass serving. He stole everything away from then and then was about to kill all of them off and just leave them like that.

So we already know that Kisuke is in league with SS. So the Vizards are more than likely are gonna follow along with Kisuke.

But the thing is, if Yamamoto survives, then I don't think he'll have much gratitude towards them because they're once shinigami who turned into hollow, making them "scum" and outcasts for both worlds. That right there will cause some major conflict.

Darek Khort
July 19, 2008, 08:58 PM
I liked this chapter.
In my opinion Barragan is definately not no.1.
I'm assuming because of the throne and the crown, before Aizen came into the picture he must have been king of HM.
However, when Aizen came I have a feeling that either Halibel or Stark (through the Hyouky) overpowered Barragan.

From the conversation in this chapter I have a feeling that Stark is indeed No.1. Barragan questions whether Stark has a problem with him commanding. That conversation alone should hint that Barragan is not no.1. If he was, he wouldn't have said something like that. He would have just carried out orders normally. His tone simply represents his arrogant nature.
Linette's objection pretty much backs this idea up that Stark is higher-ranked than Barragan.

From Barragan's response to Halibel however I would have first thought this meant that Halibel was No.3 given that Barragan has absolutely no respect for her. Aka, Barragan has no respect for anyone under him.
However, looking at Nnoitra's response against Halibel in some other chapter a few weeks/months back even though Nnoitra is of a lower rank leads me to be unsure about Barragan and Halibel's rank.

Akihito
July 19, 2008, 09:14 PM
I don't get why some of us are still wondering which side the Vizards are on. Obviously, they're not gonna be on Aizen's side. Shinji knows exactly what he was gonna do to all of them and told them already of what had happened. The same goes for Urahara who told them what happened after they had all pretty much passed out.



As far as this statement goes i was one of the people who was surprised that aizen was even alive and had manipulated everyone so in my case i prefer to wait and see before making assumptions

Rotten The Wizard
July 19, 2008, 09:43 PM
I say stark is 1 and I'll put money on that.

Hallibel and Baragan ave conflict over leadership cause stark isnt the leader type

hossice
July 19, 2008, 10:22 PM
it could very well be halibel #1 and barragan #3. and hes just sexist (nnoitra) and doesn't care about women that r stronger than him. that other comment, dont under estimate me, is most likly the im #3 but dont underestimate me #2 OR #1. but i think its #2.

only picture i can remember that has yoruichis zanpaktou.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/130/10/

hyn_pride93
July 19, 2008, 11:27 PM
Her zanpaktou is a short blade. It kind of looks more like a dagger to me than a katana.

I guess that zanpaktou is better for her anyway since she's a hand to hand combat shinigami.

hossice
July 19, 2008, 11:55 PM
also i was reading some over again and i saw this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/112/02/
does this mean that when he can take over its like the black eyes or completly take over???

Flight-47
July 19, 2008, 11:57 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/06/
Another waste of a page...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4894/edgeworthvz5.png

That's the best page of the chapter! Ulquiorra pulling his sword out deserved it's own page, just like Zaraki's entrance to Hueco Mundo deserved two!


Anyways =P
I say from these clues this chapter that Stark is number 1 after all.
I thought Halibel would be, but I changed my mind.

Barragan seemed to direct his "I hope you don't have a problem with that", line to Stark, seeing how he was the one to respond. His Fraccion kicked him, as if he should care. I think that's enough evidence that Stark should have been the one to lead.

Just because Barragan asked, in general, if him taking command was a problem, proves he's not number 1.


But all I got out of this chapter though was:
A) Ichigo's about to get owned. (I hope).
B) Genryuusai is a bad ass, telling Barragan off like he did XD

someguy0830
July 20, 2008, 12:06 AM
Thank you for that picture. It's always nice to have a good laugh.

Your assessment seems pretty fair. Ichigo needs something more to win and Yamamoto don't take crap from no wannabe mafia arrancar.

Doombot
July 20, 2008, 01:47 AM
Have we ever seen Yammy's tattoo? He's my new pick at #1!

someguy0830
July 20, 2008, 02:40 AM
It's on his shoulder. You can see it when his arm is reattached.

Andonan
July 20, 2008, 06:35 AM
@ Fight-47

Yeah your totally correct, when I first read this chapter I was just like Barragan is obviously 1 he has the throne but your point about Stark being kicked by his subordinate and all that is so correct Barragan is No. 2 Halibel 3 and Stark is 1, I suppose I just missed that pg when i first read through lol

Comon fighting Ichigo!!!! I wanna see some uber fight scenes, I read this manga for fighting, Naruto for the characters and One Piece for Story!!!

Starky-08
July 20, 2008, 07:59 AM
People seems to think Barragan used to be the king of the arrancar, well I'm gunna write like a small timeline

1.The Original Espada are created
2.Aaroniero Joins the Espada
3.The Pariviron Espada become Espada
4.Barragan becomes king of Hueco Mundo
5.30 years or so pass Aizen arrives at Hueco Mundo
6.Aizen speaks to the King, Barragan
7.Aizen Challenges him for the throne of Hueco Mundo
8.Aizen wins.
9.Aizen goes to Soul Society and get the hougyoku
10.Aizen arrives back, fire's a few of the original Espada
11.Creates a few Espada of his own, namely Nnoitora, Szayel and Nel
12.All of the original Espada re fired, exept Aaroniero
13.Aizen creates 2 more Espada, which end up being more powerful than the previous King Barragan, who has joined the Espada
14.Barragan has hated Aizen since then, but fears him.

Eh I got bored which is why I wrote it lol

Starzen
July 20, 2008, 08:59 AM
just one question, how can the espada rule hm while we have the vastos at the top of the food chain, like GJ said no body in the 300yr history of hm has ever ruled it.

JeffS
July 20, 2008, 11:42 AM
just one question, how can the espada rule hm while we have the vastos at the top of the food chain, like GJ said no body in the 300yr history of hm has ever ruled it.

Some deal between Aizen and the Vasto Lorde, probably? I dunno.

Basil Hawkins
July 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
@Starky
1.The Original Espada are created
5.30 years or so pass Aizen arrives at Hueco Mundo
ROFL.The Espada is created by Aizen.So it can't exist before he came to HM.Also where do you pull that 30 year number?I'm wondering which is more stupid what you wrote now or your powerlevel based ranking...

ShaunMati1
July 20, 2008, 03:28 PM
@Starky
1.The Original Espada are created
5.30 years or so pass Aizen arrives at Hueco Mundo
ROFL.The Espada is created by Aizen.So it can't exist before he came to HM.Also where do you pull that 30 year number?I'm wondering which is more stupid what you wrote now or your powerlevel based ranking...

Ya well that time frame isnt valid, we dont know exactly how long espada have been around. We dont know exactly how long Aizen has ruled over HM, and we dont know exactly when the ex-espada got kicked out. I wonder how ichigo is gonna deal with ulquiorra and his sword. In their encounter in HM it took one cero from ulquiorra and ichigo was already at a disadvantage with his mask on. Now he just can hold it on longer....its gonna stall his loss, or atleast stall untill hollow ichigo comes back. Hollow ichigo said "to fully control my power dont die before i return" and he said "if u give me the chance i will beat u down and crush ur skull". Ichigo being on the verge of death seems a chance for hollow ichgo to intervene.

lordHokage
July 20, 2008, 03:57 PM
People seems to think Barragan used to be the king of the arrancar, well I'm gunna write like a small timeline

1.The Original Espada are created
2.Aaroniero Joins the Espada
3.The Pariviron Espada become Espada
4.Barragan becomes king of Hueco Mundo
5.30 years or so pass Aizen arrives at Hueco Mundo
6.Aizen speaks to the King, Barragan
7.Aizen Challenges him for the throne of Hueco Mundo
8.Aizen wins.
9.Aizen goes to Soul Society and get the hougyoku
10.Aizen arrives back, fire's a few of the original Espada
11.Creates a few Espada of his own, namely Nnoitora, Szayel and Nel
12.All of the original Espada re fired, exept Aaroniero
13.Aizen creates 2 more Espada, which end up being more powerful than the previous King Barragan, who has joined the Espada
14.Barragan has hated Aizen since then, but fears him.

Eh I got bored which is why I wrote it lol


So Aizen travelling back and forward to Hueco Mundo and Soul Society without being detected is interesting, I wonder how he pull that off. But, I agree that Barragan was the King and Aizen dethroned him after he escaped from Soul Society that will explain why he's sitting on a throne. :D

redcometfm
July 20, 2008, 06:24 PM
Random thought: Do you think Aizen was one of the original Invaders of Sereitei? Perhaps that's how he snuck in (re: Starky-08's timeline)? And perhaps that could explain any connection he has with Isshin/Isshin's knowledge of him.

hossice
July 20, 2008, 06:27 PM
the espada have been sent out before to hunt for more vasto lordes wich i guess means aizen doesn't have ten. toshiro:if aizen has 10 V.L. then thats enought to destroy SS.i guess they hide until aizen calls for them. maybe they hide deeper in HM? or maybe aizen sent them to SS already?

but if i think whats gonna happen then there will be another arc w/ the vasto lordes invading soul society and the vizards help out by request maybe? the request is just an idea. that might be the last arc? when aizen has his "key". or maybe w/ the hollow king. < isnt he the ruler or the person who watches over hollow world? the key might unlock a great noble family member who is a hollow and cant be risked outside of SS? and aizen unlocks it and the guy kills aizen then ichi has to destroy the person?

C4animax
July 20, 2008, 09:10 PM
hum, i don't know about stark being no 1, it's been clear to me that after shutting halibel's mouth barragan would shut stark's mouth, to me it was more like : " if any of you talk i'm gonna smack your face for good" and not : "i know you are the top epsada please let me do it"... at this time something has to move on and probably as a "old" leader he's leading the way.

On barragan side there's :

More subbornates
A crown (i mean come on it's not a clown is it...)
A thrown
The age (he's a bit like yamamato )

On stark side there's :

His subbordinate kicks him
One subbordonate (meaning that he's strong enough to "stay" alone)

His subbrodinate kicking him can mean two thing : "you shoudln"t act like this while you are no 1" or can also mean : 'Not because he's no 1 that he can talk to you that way!!!"

Also remember the prison fire yama shooted to aizen, you have to look at each character's face expression, the most choked seems to be stark, if he's indeed number 1 why would he be like "OMG MISSILE" if it doesn't seem dangerous.

http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-316.8/page010.html

To me it's barragan 1 halibel 2 stark 3 (i'd still expect hallibel to be no 3 though...)

I wouldn't be surprise if stark was no 1 because of his human aspect but i still believe barragan is Da king.

ps : I like the theory that aizen dethrowned barragan but would he call him "the boss" ?

lordHokage
July 20, 2008, 09:59 PM
If Hollows and Shinigami are enemies, what make Aizen think has the perfect marriage? King Hollow can pursue their plans and kick Aizen-sama to the curb. :D

Grimjaww
July 20, 2008, 10:09 PM
So Aizen travelling back and forward to Hueco Mundo and Soul Society without being detected is interesting, I wonder how he pull that off. But, I agree that Barragan was the King and Aizen dethroned him after he escaped from Soul Society that will explain why he's sitting on a throne. :D


Or maybe he just assumed he was leader, it seems as if the Vasto Lorde don't care to show off their power!

hyn_pride93
July 20, 2008, 11:03 PM
Or maybe he just assumed he was leader, it seems as if the Vasto Lorde don't care to show off their power!

I believe that too. If the Vastos were the type to go out and show off their power, then we would've already seen them. Aizen would've already had them with him. The Vastos are more like the type of hollows that keep to themselves and don't care about what anyone says. If they were challenged then they killed off their opponent probably.
[hr]

also i was reading some over again and i saw this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/112/02/
does this mean that when he can take over its like the black eyes or completly take over???

OMG. I forgot about that. Zangetsu... :cry2. WTF are you doing man?! I swear, Ichigo's got messed up problems man. If it isn't being taken over one day, then his zanpaktou's spirit is plotting to take that power.

But, what if he's not really plotting to take the power for himself, but more like whatever power Ichigo has, Zangetsu will have it too. When Ichigo gets a new power, so does Zangetsu.

Grimjaww
July 20, 2008, 11:23 PM
I believe that too. If the Vastos were the type to go out and show off their power, then we would've already seen them. Aizen would've already had them with him. The Vastos are more like the type of hollows that keep to themselves and don't care about what anyone says. If they were challenged then they killed off their opponent probably.
<hr noshade size="1">


OMG. I forgot about that. Zangetsu... :cry2. WTF are you doing man?! I swear, Ichigo's got messed up problems man. If it isn't being taken over one day, then his zanpaktou's spirit is plotting to take that power.

But, what if he's not really plotting to take the power for himself, but more like whatever power Ichigo has, Zangetsu will have it too. When Ichigo gets a new power, so does Zangetsu.

Yeah, I don't think the Vasto Lorde's will make an appearance until SS threatens to destroy all of HM with their presence inside it after they kill off Aizen. They'll prob go in to kill the rest of the arrancar, but they'll be pwned by the Vasto Lorde, thus not ending bleach too quickly.


O and BTW that wasn't Zangetsu talking about taking ichigo's power, it was ichigo's hollow side, and we've already seen him attempt that, you can tell because there is no new word bubble! : P

hyn_pride93
July 20, 2008, 11:33 PM
O and BTW that wasn't Zangetsu talking about taking ichigo's power, it was ichigo's hollow side, and we've already seen him attempt that, you can tell because there is no new word bubble! : P

How did I miss that!? I swear, I'm friggin losing it. If I'm not taking care of some irratating b.a. sisters, then I'm trying to block out my annoying grandma and her complaining or mellow dramatic situations. GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody please just help me. I'm losing it!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for that Grimm. :p

Grimjaww
July 20, 2008, 11:55 PM
How did I miss that!? I swear, I'm friggin losing it. If I'm not taking care of some irratating b.a. sisters, then I'm trying to block out my annoying grandma and her complaining or mellow dramatic situations. GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody please just help me. I'm losing it!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for that Grimm. :p

Hahahaha np. Well if the Vasto Lorde did not appear Aizen there are 2 reason why, 1. They do not fear him and do not wish to be his slaves, 2. They don't care about having more power since they are the final evolution of the Hollow form.

lordHokage
July 21, 2008, 12:14 AM
Yeah, I don't think the Vasto Lorde's will make an appearance until SS threatens to destroy all of HM with their presence inside it after they kill off Aizen. They'll prob go in to kill the rest of the arrancar, but they'll be pwned by the Vasto Lorde, thus not ending bleach too quickly.


I don't think the Vasto Lorde's will show themselves until Aizen and his army are dead and the Vizards showing up in Hueco Mundo. :D

Grimjaww
July 21, 2008, 12:35 AM
I don't think the Vasto Lorde's will show themselves until Aizen and his army are dead and the Vizards showing up in Hueco Mundo. :D

Yeah I agree, they probably have a rivalry or something : P

The only ones who do truly pose a threat to the Vasto Lorde are the Vizards, maybe Aizen is hoping that they will back him up when the Vizards turn up? But if that's true that'd be lame, the Vasto Lorde being used by Aizen like that..............they have to be way smarter than that.

gundam_akira
July 21, 2008, 01:51 AM
where did it state he was the fastest?

...

Sorry, tupo error, i meant to type FIRST (Espada in rank).

hyn_pride93
July 21, 2008, 02:10 AM
Yeah I agree, they probably have a rivalry or something : P

The only ones who do truly pose a threat to the Vasto Lorde are the Vizards, maybe Aizen is hoping that they will back him up when the Vizards turn up? But if that's true that'd be lame, the Vasto Lorde being used by Aizen like that..............they have to be way smarter than that.

Shouldn't the Vastos be smart? I mean they are the last evolution of hollow and by far the strongest form of hollows. And since they're the last evolution, they should be smart as well, and not just all bronze and no brains.

But as for the Vastos showing when the Vizards arrive sounds like the best answer. Seeing as how the Vizards are rejected from both worlds (SS and HM) then them arriving in the Hollow world should be very agitating towards the Vastos. For the Vastos, it'll be more of a hunt and kill the outcasts who dared to step foot in our world kind of thing.

Grimjaww
July 21, 2008, 02:23 AM
Shouldn't the Vastos be smart? I mean they are the last evolution of hollow and by far the strongest form of hollows. And since they're the last evolution, they should be smart as well, and not just all bronze and no brains.

But as for the Vastos showing when the Vizards arrive sounds like the best answer. Seeing as how the Vizards are rejected from both worlds (SS and HM) then them arriving in the Hollow world should be very agitating towards the Vastos. For the Vastos, it'll be more of a hunt and kill the outcasts who dared to step foot in our world kind of thing.


Interesting. If Kubo makes Aizen stronger than all of the Vizards, than Bleach is going to get lame real quick. There is no way Shinji, Aizen's captain, who has had at least 100 years of training to hone his hollow powers, and to increase his power exponentially, can be beat from his bitch ass traitor lieutenant who keeps getting power ups out of nowhere. The power that the 3 captain level Vizards display is what should peak the interest of the Vasto Lorde and get them to appear, or atleast pay attention to the events that are unfolding.

Knowing Aizen he mght already know he will fail himself, but is maybe relying on the Vasto Lorde to finish everything.

gold349
July 21, 2008, 06:26 AM
I don't think the Vasto Lorde's will show themselves until Aizen and his army are dead and the Vizards showing up in Hueco Mundo. :D


At one point I thought that too, Aizen might have his own zero division and has all vastro in there but there was a conversation with Gin and aizen where he said he is looking forward to completing the espada with vastro (at that point we had already seen ulquaria and yammi, a couple of chapters after this conversation we saw all current espada with the added addition of wonder wyce ), so they have to be in the current ten some where but IMO I think espada are all vastro, from yammi to stark bragan halibel are vastro, being vastro doesn't mean one level of power they could be vastro but one could be stronger than the other, i know I'm the only one who believes this we will see how things turn out and who is vastro and who isn't.

Kshunsui
July 21, 2008, 08:03 AM
grimjow was adjuha, and maybe ulquiorra, Halibel, Barragan and Stark are Vastolorde's

lordHokage
July 21, 2008, 09:21 AM
Yeah I agree, they probably have a rivalry or something : P

The only ones who do truly pose a threat to the Vasto Lorde are the Vizards, maybe Aizen is hoping that they will back him up when the Vizards turn up? But if that's true that'd be lame, the Vasto Lorde being used by Aizen like that..............they have to be way smarter than that.


I can see the Vasto Lorde's and Aizen's army betraying him, the same way he betrayed Soul Society but I don't think he will kick the bucket during this arc. If Hueco Mundo is the Vizards new home, Ichigo, Aizen and Soul Society have big problems because whatever they are planning, it involves Ichigo's hollow. :blink

ShaunMati1
July 21, 2008, 09:40 AM
I thought the top 4 espada would be vasto lordes because they look the most human. Wasnt it clarified that the strongest and most human looking arrancar are vastos?

The Adamant Dragon
July 21, 2008, 09:54 AM
The most human-looking in Espada is Stark, beside his hole and considerably small hollow-mask, he's got the most human features among them. Halibel and Barragan ? Not so much... -- Not only that but the way he thinks and even when Aizen sent him to get Orihime he said *Sorry* to her...Looks Human to me --. For me there's only One Vasto lord in Espada, and that's Stark.

Akihito
July 21, 2008, 10:15 AM
my guess would be that the only vastrolorde is wonderwiess...yea i know but hell everyone just guessing anyway...hes kinda mysterious to begin with

Darth Executor
July 21, 2008, 03:23 PM
Interesting. If Kubo makes Aizen stronger than all of the Vizards, than Bleach is going to get lame real quick. There is no way Shinji, Aizen's captain, who has had at least 100 years of training to hone his hollow powers, and to increase his power exponentially, can be beat from his bitch ass traitor lieutenant who keeps getting power ups out of nowhere.

Aizen played Shinji like a banjo back when he was just a lieutenant. Aizen can probably take any character we've seen so far 1 on 1 and win, vizard or otherwise. His shikai alone is ridiculously powerful. Not to mention that he supposedly reached the peak of shinigami power. I don't think Aizen will be stronger than ALL the vizards together though. He ran away from soul society when the captains started gathering up, which I doubt he would've done if he thought he could take them.

hyn_pride93
July 21, 2008, 03:46 PM
Interesting. If Kubo makes Aizen stronger than all of the Vizards, than Bleach is going to get lame real quick. There is no way Shinji, Aizen's captain, who has had at least 100 years of training to hone his hollow powers, and to increase his power exponentially, can be beat from his bitch ass traitor lieutenant who keeps getting power ups out of nowhere. The power that the 3 captain level Vizards display is what should peak the interest of the Vasto Lorde and get them to appear, or atleast pay attention to the events that are unfolding.

Knowing Aizen he mght already know he will fail himself, but is maybe relying on the Vasto Lorde to finish everything.

I bet that Aizen needed the Vastos because his power isn't as vast as he wants it to be.

The only thing that I'm worried about is this, Aizen most likely has already gained his hollow powers through the Hougyoku and the vastos are just there for a reasurance policy that he has, so that they can keep his army under control. Or more like making a copy of the Gotei 13, except in this case, it's all hollows.

gold349
July 21, 2008, 03:57 PM
my guess would be that the only vastrolorde is wonderwiess...yea i know but hell everyone just guessing anyway...hes kinda mysterious to begin with


I would include wonderwiess in my list of vastrolorde, I know that Grimmjow was once ajucas but did he remain one? he was the only one out of his group who said that he would carry on and through him his fraccion would see the next level of evolution, I cannot say that he did but no one can say he didn't make it. going by what Ishida says here and what others have said about vastrolorde, they take the most looking humanoid form www.onemanga.com/Bleach/242/09 I'm going to stick with the current espada are vastrolordes as they all resemble physical humanoid forms and don't look like other arrancar, I belive when Aizen said that he wasn't bothered about losing grimjow fraccion becuase they were gillian, IMO del roy was gillian and maybe the other one grimmjow bit in his flashback but the rest were ajuca, grimjow is on my list of vastrolorde.

hyn_pride93
July 21, 2008, 04:01 PM
Who truly knows? Grimm never did tell us if he was or wasn't a vasto. So for all we know, he's still an adjucha.

DGMADN
July 21, 2008, 11:36 PM
wonderwies looks kinda like kobain in his more "exciting" times- drugged out and totally clueless. I don't see that as higher intelligence for some reason.

If the three espada now (barragan, halibel, stark) aren't vastos, then they gotta be hidden somewhere up Aizens' sleeve. Cuz he don't need them to fight the feeble Gotei 13- he will need them to fight the mighty zero squad!

next issue- I hope they cover what's going on with ppl we haven't seen. ie. Urahara, tessai, yoruichi, the four captains in Hueco Mundo, and hell, where is Ishida?

hyn_pride93
July 21, 2008, 11:45 PM
Ishida is probably with Mayuri in Szayel's lab exploring everything in there. Ishida is one of those kinds of guys. He is probably trying to figure how everything works in HM and learning new things from Szayel's research.

But as for the Vastos, I don't think Aizen has found them yet. I think we still have some time before we see them. Like when the Vizards show up and enter the World of the Hollows will they show themselves.

Grimjaww
July 21, 2008, 11:45 PM
Aizen played Shinji like a banjo back when he was just a lieutenant. Aizen can probably take any character we've seen so far 1 on 1 and win, vizard or otherwise. His shikai alone is ridiculously powerful. Not to mention that he supposedly reached the peak of shinigami power. I don't think Aizen will be stronger than ALL the vizards together though. He ran away from soul society when the captains started gathering up, which I doubt he would've done if he thought he could take them.

Not really, Shinji was trying to repel the hollowization that was happening, Aizen had his stupid shikai activated thats why he got the suprise attack on him. Now Shinji knows Aizen's power and can beat his ass all day.



As for Grimm being a Vasto Lorde, I don't think he is yet, but his whole history of who he was and his quest is a type of forshadowing that he will become a Vasto Lorde, than he will really rape. This transformation will prob happend after he heals up, his anger that stems from losing to Ichigo will push him to the next level.

hyn_pride93
July 21, 2008, 11:54 PM
As for Grimm being a Vasto Lorde, I don't think he is yet, but his whole history of who he was and his quest is a type of forshadowing that he will become a Vasto Lorde, than he will really rape. This transformation will prob happend after he heals up, his anger that stems from losing to Ichigo will push him to the next level.

Shouldn't Grimm be dead already? He was murdered by Ichigo, and then slaughetered in one slash from Noi. Unless he is healed up soon, Grimm should be on his way to being dead.

hossice
July 22, 2008, 12:19 AM
Shouldn't Grimm be dead already? He was murdered by Ichigo, and then slaughetered in one slash from Noi. Unless he is healed up soon, Grimm should be on his way to being dead.

uhhhhhh ichigo stopped the slash.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/287/04/


anyways if the current arrancar are/were vasto lordes they wouldn't have been beaten so badly. ex: zommari! he got pawned so bad, he is the worst espada so far to fight. and plus yammi is like 10 ft. high that IMO isn't humanoid. plus 9th espada a jar w/ two skeltons. the only way out of that is w/ kaien or other people he consumed.

Aonsaithya
July 22, 2008, 12:21 AM
I hope GJ is gone for good. Enough with the "not such a bad guy anymore"-stuff. He should have bled to death three times now.

I don't think Aizen has "hollowified" himself yet. He stated that the hyogokdsak has not fully awakened yet, so I'm assuming he himself would wait until that before he uses it on himself. No sense making yourself less than perfect, right?

Espadas 1-4 are vasto lordes. Ulquiorra's silhouette proves that he is one, and the three espada above a vasto lorde can't really be anything else. GJ was an adjucha (come on, a cat), and Noitora is far from looking human, thus I'd assume that Noitora is/was the strongest adjucha arrancar.

Hitsugaya stated that 10 vasto lordes with Aizen could destroy SS. Did he specify whether he meant 10 arrancar vasto lordes, or 10 still-hollow vasto lordes?
"A vasto lorde is stronger than an average captain" he says, but what is an average captain? I'd rank the remaining captains like this:
Weakest: Komamura, Hitsugaya, Kurotsuchi
Medium: Soifon, Byakuya, Kenpachi
Strongest: Unohana, Ukitake, Kyoraku, and on the top Yamamoto

Grimjaww
July 22, 2008, 12:37 AM
I hope GJ is gone for good. Enough with the "not such a bad guy anymore"-stuff. He should have bled to death three times now.

I don't think Aizen has "hollowified" himself yet. He stated that the hyogokdsak has not fully awakened yet, so I'm assuming he himself would wait until that before he uses it on himself. No sense making yourself less than perfect, right?

Espadas 1-4 are vasto lordes. Ulquiorra's silhouette proves that he is one, and the three espada above a vasto lorde can't really be anything else. GJ was an adjucha (come on, a cat), and Noitora is far from looking human, thus I'd assume that Noitora is/was the strongest adjucha arrancar.

Hitsugaya stated that 10 vasto lordes with Aizen could destroy SS. Did he specify whether he meant 10 arrancar vasto lordes, or 10 still-hollow vasto lordes?
"A vasto lorde is stronger than an average captain" he says, but what is an average captain? I'd rank the remaining captains like this:
Weakest: Komamura, Hitsugaya, Kurotsuchi
Medium: Soifon, Byakuya, Kenpachi
Strongest: Unohana, Ukitake, Kyoraku, and on the top Yamamoto

I agree with your list except that Kenpachi should be in the strongest category.

I have to disagree with you about the GJ part, he isn't dead. There is no way he would just die off by lying there bleeding to death, that is an insult to any character to die like that. I mean Kubo can't not give him a death scene, not too mention he has a high willpower, so I don't think we've seen the last of him. I have a feeling he will be used in the Ulquoirra fight since he most likely wants revenge for getting owned earlier, and has always hated the guy.

hossice
July 22, 2008, 12:43 AM
he might just go to fake karakura and parade on barragans parade! but highly doubt it. maybe take out ulquiorras bestie. yammi!!!! but yammi would get owned since he is #10 unless he got a power up which is like 25% yes and 75% no IMO since soom people think so

Grimjaww
July 22, 2008, 01:07 AM
he might just go to fake karakura and parade on barragans parade! but highly doubt it. maybe take out ulquiorras bestie. yammi!!!! but yammi would get owned since he is #10 unless he got a power up which is like 25% yes and 75% no IMO since soom people think so

Notice the first time yammi tried to attack Urahara Ulquoirra stopped him and said "You aren't strong enough yet". Then the 2nd time they fought he was doing a little better, but still getting owned. Is there a possibility that arrancars are hack like saiyain and get stronger after each battle???

eddy26
July 22, 2008, 01:13 AM
Well I hope Grimmjow is dead I know lots of people love his character but it would be dumb to have him come back. A lot of people complained during the HM fights that it wasn't progressing the story. Bringing back Grimmjow is like dragging back HM to the fore front. There are only three things I want to know about HM the Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra fight. Rukia,Chad,and Renji and the whole Exequias battle. The last thing is what the four captains are doing hoping to see Ishida is with them. Personally I love Nel but unless she goes to the real world to fight I really wouldn't want to see what she is doing HM.
I agree with the people who are saying Wonderwice is a VL it would be so funny if he turns out to be the strongest espada. Yeah he is kinda dumb but its possible that all he needs is a little time to develop his mind. Aizen gets rid of failed experiments so he would have killed Wonderwice if he wasn't going to be useful. As far as next chapter I think the focus will be turned to Ulquiorra vs. Ichigo. It will start off with Baragan upset about Yamamoto showing him up. Halibel will send her fraccion to fight Kira, Ikkaku, Hisagi, and Yumichika. Before anyone tries to stop her fraccion from leaving Yamamoto will tell them to focus on the espada in front of them. After that the whole chapter will be Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra Ichigo pulling out his hollow mask telling Ulquiorra something like if you are going to pull out your sword then I'll put on my mask. The last panel will be Orihime with her shocked face saying Kurosaki-kun. Kubo seems to enjoy having her say that in every chapter.

hossice
July 22, 2008, 01:21 AM
i like ur idea on the next chapter. but then ichi goes bankai and mask and then ulquiorra says if ur pulling out all the stops then so will I and he goes release. < that might be later on most likely.

Grimjaww
July 22, 2008, 01:23 AM
As far as next chapter I think the focus will be turned to Ulquiorra vs. Ichigo. It will start off with Baragan upset about Yamamoto showing him up. Halibel will send her fraccion to fight Kira, Ikkaku, Hisagi, and Yumichika. Before anyone tries to stop her fraccion from leaving Yamamoto will tell them to focus on the espada in front of them. After that the whole chapter will be Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra Ichigo pulling out his hollow mask telling Ulquiorra something like if you are going to pull out your sword then I'll put on my mask. The last panel will be Orihime with her shocked face saying Kurosaki-kun. Kubo seems to enjoy having her say that in every chapter.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Instead of Hallibel's fraccion i think I believe it will be Barrigan's but damn you got it pretty head on and most likely accurate!!

Andonan
July 22, 2008, 06:52 AM
Ok I wanna see some Ichigo whipping arse action, it's been too long

zzlow
July 22, 2008, 07:57 AM
Is Yamamoto shinkai stronger than hougoku or Aizen left it in HM?

Also, what so important about halibel/stark/bag numbers? I can't see any difference even if Yammy is #1...

Starky-08
July 22, 2008, 08:31 AM
I think in the next chapter it will show the match ups in fake KK, as in who will fight who, then it will return the Ichigo and Ulquiorra, with a final sentance, then the chapter after that it will be Ichigo and Ulquiorra for the next few chapters.

Or

The espada's are about to say there number's like, barragan says: "I am Espada Number ......" then it skips to Ichigo and Ulquiorra

Hockeychaoz
July 22, 2008, 10:51 AM
Wouldn't it be cool if the captains beat all the espada, and when looking down at their corpses, they notice that they're numbers weren't 1,2,3, they were 8,9,10, and that Aizen had just recently gotten 7 Vastrolords which is why he decided to infiltrate now.

hmmm speculation!

hyn_pride93
July 22, 2008, 11:14 AM
Wouldn't it be cool if the captains beat all the espada, and when looking down at their corpses, they notice that they're numbers weren't 1,2,3, they were 8,9,10, and that Aizen had just recently gotten 7 Vastrolords which is why he decided to infiltrate now.

hmmm speculation!

If that happened then I would die!!! That would just mean that frikin Aizen is able to do more things than we had expected.

Popping out 7 Vastos would just be, the worst thing for more. Although that would be totally awesome to see, that would just mean that we could pretty much say goodbye to Soul Society and Karakura Town, and hello King's Realm but goodbye King!!!

avantasian
July 22, 2008, 11:55 AM
Well the evil side is badly outnumbered with shinigamis and vizards against them, and its not a case of quality VS quantity!

So Aizen must still have some secrets!Otherwise they are doomed!

And where is Espada#10 btw???

droolz
July 22, 2008, 12:06 PM
knowing aizen, he'll probably have yami do something right now in secret... but he doesn't seem like a good choice for doing any important missions alone... (esp. if he goes with wonderweiss... freak combo.. haha)

eyesotope
July 22, 2008, 03:07 PM
if the next chapter is about Espada vs Shinigami starting, then that'll be cool..
if it's about Ichigo vs Ulquirra battle starting, then that'll also be cool..
if it's about the four "elite" shinigami at the 4 towers demonstrating further "eliteness", I won't help being disappointed..

hajialibaig
July 22, 2008, 03:31 PM
if the next chapter is about Espada vs Shinigami starting, then that'll be cool..
if it's about Ichigo vs Ulquirra battle starting, then that'll also be cool..
if it's about the four "elite" shinigami at the 4 towers demonstrating further "eliteness", I won't help being disappointed..

yea, for some reason, Kubo been avoiding the main fight (captains vs. espada), which leads me to suspect if he's gonna skip it all together, i.e. showing the captains all beaten up, and aizen giving a 15 page speech on how good his hypnosis is (Which we already had 3 times before, a waste of 45 pages)

gold349
July 22, 2008, 04:09 PM
IMHO, Aizen is hiding his main force, true we have been lead to believe once he gathers so many vastro in his espada SS is done for, but I believe this is only faze 1 of 2. I can not see him or the espada killing all the captains including old yamma and all the vaizard. Aizen has still to make the key, unless that doesn't happen and this is indeed the last battle, why I say this is if it does go to, him making the key and then invading the kings realm he will need substantial forces and those of a level who will be able to take on "zero division". I some how can not believe that the current espada and Aizen with Gin and Tousen will kill the forces of SS and Vaizard here and now and all survive to take down zero division and the other kings realm royal guards.

Mizu.
July 22, 2008, 04:10 PM
What happened to Ishida?

ShaunMati1
July 22, 2008, 04:22 PM
Wouldn't it be cool if the captains beat all the espada, and when looking down at their corpses, they notice that they're numbers weren't 1,2,3, they were 8,9,10, and that Aizen had just recently gotten 7 Vastrolords which is why he decided to infiltrate now.

hmmm speculation!

well Sayzel is 8 and arrenio (spelling?) is 9 so i doubt that will happen.

Grimjaww
July 22, 2008, 05:24 PM
Man Yammi seems so useless, is he hiding or is there a reason we have not seen him since the meeting???

winterwyrm
July 22, 2008, 06:57 PM
prediction: Yammi vs ishida, Wonderwice and exiquas vs remaining captains in soul society, Orihime vs the two arrancar who came to torture her.

BigJDelux
July 22, 2008, 07:37 PM
I would be really surprised if we saw a lot of Ichigo in the newest chapter. . . After having the two page pic of Hisagi, Kira, Ikkaku, and Yumichika it just seems like the better part of the next chapter will involve the protection of the pillars.

hajialibaig
July 22, 2008, 08:36 PM
I beg to differ. Seeing how all 4 hollows got pwned by HKIY, I hope the Espada give up on the idea of destroying the pillars and engage in a head-on battle with the captains... that's what I've been waiting for 5 MONTHS NOWWW>........................ **goes to sleep**

Shiro-kun
July 22, 2008, 08:48 PM
^Patience is a virtue :s

Three Espada(which Aizen places a lot of confidence in) vs Six Captains, there have to be some surprises along the way :amuse, It seems Kubo was (or is) just still perparing for the bang that well come with those battles

Hockeychaoz
July 22, 2008, 11:15 PM
well Sayzel is 8 and arrenio (spelling?) is 9 so i doubt that will happen.

...-.-'..
I'm saying that they got busted down in rank since the Vastrolordes came in.
Btw, they're both dead, so their spaces are open.

lordHokage
July 22, 2008, 11:29 PM
^Patience is a virtue :s

Three Espada(which Aizen places a lot of confidence in) vs Six Captains, there have to be some surprises along the way :amuse, It seems Kubo was (or is) just still perparing for the bang that well come with those battles


There is definitely going to be some surprises along the way, Aizen is underestimating the Captains, a big mistake because his top three Espada will not succeed. :D

Edome
July 23, 2008, 01:12 AM
There is definitely going to be some surprises along the way, Aizen is underestimating the Captains, a big mistake because his top three Espada will not succeed. :D

Debatable. With a few exceptions Aizen has seen what the captains can do. He knows their strengths as well as their weaknesses. The only captains I'd be surprised if Aizen truly has analyzed would be the top 3 + Yama. He probably has some good guesstimations as to their strengths / weaknesses but I'd be surprised if he had hard data.

It's still unclear just how much the shinigami know about the arrancar. Most of their confidence comes from their own strength, instead of their knowledge of the enemy.

Grimjaww
July 23, 2008, 01:17 AM
There is definitely going to be some surprises along the way, Aizen is underestimating the Captains, a big mistake because his top three Espada will not succeed. :D

That could be his whole plan, for them to lose. The 3 espada don't really stand a chance, but they will tire out the captains, then Aizen, Gin and Tousen can easily kill them. Ulquoirra is not meant to kill Ichigo, Aizen believes Ichigo will kill Ulquoirra, but Ulq is just a obstacle that will delay Ichigo and crew, which is counting the 3 captains stuck in HM, and all 3 of those captains are super houses (well no one is sure about Unohana yet, but there is a lot of implying that she is strong). Yammi and Wonderweice will probably delay the Vizards and Urahara, delaying the Vizards is what will win the batle for Aizen.

Yannnnnnnnn
July 23, 2008, 01:21 AM
There is definitely going to be some surprises along the way, Aizen is underestimating the Captains, a big mistake because his top three Espada will not succeed. :D

Aizen do not care about this 3 remaining espada.... And I think he know the exact ability of each captain,....
He said that everything was set from the beginning when he was confined by yamamoto's flame.
He know already what will happen....
I only hope that the espada will not die without harming/killing some guy from SS.
After their death, aizen will just tell us that it was planned and then he will say that he have some vastro left or something like that,... otherwise urahara, isshin, Ryūken and the vizards will have no one to fight against....

For the next chapter, I plann Baragan surprise and then back to Hm with some rukia and co fight, and ichi vs ulqui.
Also I would like to know what mayuri has found (a long time ago now) after his battle with Grantz
[hr]
@ Edome and Grimjaww

Well we think the same I just take more time to quote lord hokage post !!!!

The Adamant Dragon
July 23, 2008, 01:31 AM
I'm more intrigued about Unohana... I want see the her fight for once, for god's sake. Its incredible how Kubo Avoid to place her in any confrontation. Shunshui stated that '' you don't want get on her bad side " -- In the pendelum Gaiden --. I Want to see what its like!

Anyway... I Don't care about Ichigo right now... I'd preffer to see Shunshui and Yama-Ji fight.

hyn_pride93
July 23, 2008, 01:48 AM
I really just want Unohana to fight already. But as of right now, I don't really wanna see her fight. That would just piss me off because we've been waiting for all of these other fights to happen and they're finally starting. Just having Unohana pop up and start a fight with someone would be really irritating because that will take more attention away from all the current fights.

Grimjaww
July 23, 2008, 06:08 AM
I really just want Unohana to fight already. But as of right now, I don't really wanna see her fight. That would just piss me off because we've been waiting for all of these other fights to happen and they're finally starting. Just having Unohana pop up and start a fight with someone would be really irritating because that will take more attention away from all the current fights.

Unohana is like super back up, hahaha, she wont fight unless force too

lordHokage
July 23, 2008, 07:44 AM
Even though, Aizen may know the strengths and weaknesses of some of the captains, he’s still underestimating their will powers, both Ken-chan and Byakuya’s will powers changed for the greater good after their battle with Ichigo. :p

I wonder whether killing the King is Aizen’s true plans or just a delay tactics to keep Soul Society busy so that Ichigo’s powers level can interests to his approval. It seems to be that Aizen has been secretly training Ichigo ever since to came to Soul Society. Every major opponent Ichigo fought so far, for example: Ken-chan, Byakuya, Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, Aizen deliberately set it up. I wouldn’t be surprise if Aizen, Gin and Tousen escape from Yama-sama's fire prison walls just to kill off Espadas to gain some brownies points with Ichigo after he defeats Ulquiorra. If that happens, the Vizards would not be happy at all. :D

Silhouette
July 23, 2008, 11:31 AM
I'm more intrigued about Unohana... I want see the her fight for once, for god's sake. Its incredible how Kubo Avoid to place her in any confrontation.

In a past interview with Kubo, he stated that Unohana's fight will play a CRUCIAL role.
So there you have it, Unohana is bigger than just fighting with any espada...she leaves them to her kōhai.

Tsukisama
July 23, 2008, 11:45 AM
I'm more intrigued about Unohana... I want see the her fight for once, for god's sake. Its incredible how Kubo Avoid to place her in any confrontation. Shunshui stated that '' you don't want get on her bad side " -- In the pendelum Gaiden --. I Want to see what its like!

Anyway... I Don't care about Ichigo right now... I'd preffer to see Shunshui and Yama-Ji fight.

I am inclined to agree on both parts. At first, when Unohana showed up in HM with the other 3 captains, I was expecting it to be her big debut that Kubo has been building towards for so long, but it is now apparent that it was just another move by Kubo to get Unohana out of the line of action and postpone her much-anticipated premier fight. It is almost becoming a bit of a running gag; like when Unohana volunteered to go on the patrol with the would-be vizards in the gaiden only to be told not to go, that seemed almost as if Kubo threw that scene in just poke at us a bit. :amuse

I am also less interested in seeing Ichigo fight Ulquiorra, but it is an inevitability and will happen sooner or later. I expect that Kubo will probably show a chapter or two of one fight and then switch the scene to another fight.

ShaunMati1
July 23, 2008, 12:05 PM
On the contrary im more interested in Ichigo vs Ulquiorra more then anything right now. Im sure Kubo has a very interesting and crazy way to give ichigo the upper hand. I know i definitely wanna see hollow ichigo more then anything especially after re-watching old episodes. And all i wanna also see are the vizards and see where they are goin and what they are doing. Then see urahara and what hes doing.

Gokei
July 23, 2008, 12:53 PM
On the contrary im more interested in Ichigo vs Ulquiorra more then anything right now. Im sure Kubo has a very interesting and crazy way to give ichigo the upper hand. I know i definitely wanna see hollow ichigo more then anything especially after re-watching old episodes. And all i wanna also see are the vizards and see where they are goin and what they are doing. Then see urahara and what hes doing.

Interesting since his hollow did tell Ichigo to stay alive until appears again. For this chapter, I hope Orihime finally goes 'Aa, Megami-sama!' on Ulquiorra.

ascalon
July 23, 2008, 02:30 PM
I've said it before. It wont be long until we see Ichigo begin to use full hollow powers in the same transformation he had while training with the Vaizards. Look, here is the main difference between Arrancar and Vaizards. Vaizards can use hollow riatsu to give them greater strength, but they cannot (so far) use the full unique powers of their hollows. Similarly, Arrancar can use some of their shinigami powers with a simple zanpaktou, but they cannot release their full shinigami/zanpaktou powers, such as in the form of a bankai.

lordHokage
July 23, 2008, 03:06 PM
I've said it before. It wont be long until we see Ichigo begin to use full hollow powers in the same transformation he had while training with the Vaizards. Look, here is the main difference between Arrancar and Vaizards. Vaizards can use hollow riatsu to give them greater strength, but they cannot (so far) use the full unique powers of their hollows. Similarly, Arrancar can use some of their shinigami powers with a simple zanpaktou, but they cannot release their full shinigami/zanpaktou powers, such as in the form of a bankai.


And when that happens, the Vizards, Aizen and Soul Society would all duke it out. Since Ichigo is the main character, there is something special about him. :D

hajialibaig
July 23, 2008, 03:27 PM
If Ichigo beats Ulquiorra using any of the following methods:

-Random power jump from watching Kenpachi fight
-Random resolve power up from "I need to protect my friends"
-Random kendo (grabing sword with two hands => 2X power)

Then this manga will have serious problems and I'll opt to stop readin it :D

lions4lyfe
July 23, 2008, 03:33 PM
Aizen do not care about this 3 remaining espada.... And I think he know the exact ability of each captain,....
He said that everything was set from the beginning when he was confined by yamamoto's flame.
He know already what will happen....
I only hope that the espada will not die without harming/killing some guy from SS.
After their death, aizen will just tell us that it was planned and then he will say that he have some vastro left or something like that,... otherwise urahara, isshin, Ryūken and the vizards will have no one to fight against....

For the next chapter, I plann Baragan surprise and then back to Hm with some rukia and co fight, and ichi vs ulqui.
Also I would like to know what mayuri has found (a long time ago now) after his battle with Grantz
<hr noshade size="1">
@ Edome and Grimjaww

Well we think the same I just take more time to quote lord hokage post !!!!


yes aizen probably does have it all planned out. getting trapped in that fire was probably pasrt of his plan. He knows that he probably cant beat yammamoto at the level hes at right now so he probably planned for something like this to happen so he doesnt have to fight. He has everything planned out, just like when he was a luitenant for shinji, he knew he couldnt defeat shinji at his current level, so what did he do? got shinji mad forcing a hollow transformation. So like now, the other captains being scared of him yammamoto has no choice but to trap him. so now aizen doesnt have to fight yammamoto does he. Also keep in mind, if you look closely most of the shinigami captains and the espada have matches among each other. Like szayel apporo and mayuri-both mad scientists. Byakuya nd the 7th espada-both among the fastest nd dey r da calmest, kenpachi nd nnoitra- both hard to cut, remember ichigo couldnt cut kenpachi at first, they both have eyepatches nd both LOVE to fight, Stark nd Shunsui- both are lazy, nd both dont really mind how their subordinates talk 2 them, nd then Barragan nd Yammamoto, dis is part of y i think barragan is numba 1 espada, both him and yama r both oldest among their ranks, therefore since most of the captains have their matches, nd yama is strongest shinigami i think barragan prolly da strongest espada.

hossice
July 23, 2008, 05:15 PM
what if there isn't a chapter this week? i mean kubo is going to comic con so there might not be one? idk just thinking about it. thats my worst fear is not being told about no chapter. it starts the 24th which is tomorrow so idk.

Starky-08
July 23, 2008, 05:21 PM
yes aizen probably does have it all planned out. getting trapped in that fire was probably pasrt of his plan. He knows that he probably cant beat yammamoto at the level hes at right now so he probably planned for something like this to happen so he doesnt have to fight. He has everything planned out, just like when he was a luitenant for shinji, he knew he couldnt defeat shinji at his current level, so what did he do? got shinji mad forcing a hollow transformation. So like now, the other captains being scared of him yammamoto has no choice but to trap him. so now aizen doesnt have to fight yammamoto does he. Also keep in mind, if you look closely most of the shinigami captains and the espada have matches among each other. Like szayel apporo and mayuri-both mad scientists. Byakuya nd the 7th espada-both among the fastest nd dey r da calmest, kenpachi nd nnoitra- both hard to cut, remember ichigo couldnt cut kenpachi at first, they both have eyepatches nd both LOVE to fight, Stark nd Shunsui- both are lazy, nd both dont really mind how their subordinates talk 2 them, nd then Barragan nd Yammamoto, dis is part of y i think barragan is numba 1 espada, both him and yama r both oldest among their ranks, therefore since most of the captains have their matches, nd yama is strongest shinigami i think barragan prolly da strongest espada.

I don't think Aizen fear Yama.

And by reading your post thingies about Captains and Espada I decided to my own aswel, exept mine has Ichigo.

Shunsui Stark (Lazy)
Yama > Barragan (Old)
Soifon > Halibel (Look's as if Halibel might be fast, like Soifon and the Sword style)
Byakuya > Ulquiorra (Silent, but Deadly)
Kenpaichi > Nnoitora (Not Silent, and very Deadly)
Ichigo > Grimmjow (Like to take revenge against one another)
Ukitake > Zommari (The Quiet type who like to meditate)
Mayuri > Szayel (Crazy Scientist')

leaving Aaroniero and Yammy without anyone.


what if there isn't a chapter this week? i mean kubo is going to comic con so there might not be one? idk just thinking about it. thats my worst fear is not being told about no chapter. it starts the 24th which is tomorrow so idk.

Also their is no Spoilers yet, we usualy get a small one around this time.

hossice
July 23, 2008, 05:30 PM
exactly. if there wasn't goin to be one at least kubo could of told us. i might just be over reacting but i hope i am wrong 100%.


yammi>komamura (they both like to hide, komamura> face, yammi> just hide away.)

The Adamant Dragon
July 23, 2008, 05:35 PM
In a past interview with Kubo, he stated that Unohana's fight will play a CRUCIAL role.
So there you have it, Unohana is bigger than just fighting with any espada...she leaves them to her kōhai.

Yatta!! Awsom, it maybe why he placed her HM, rather than placing her in the fake K-town against The top 3 espadas... The fact that she'll play a major role gets me even more pumped up! She's one of the few female caracter that I like seeing in mangas.


I am inclined to agree on both parts. At first, when Unohana showed up in HM with the other 3 captains, I was expecting it to be her big debut that Kubo has been building towards for so long, but it is now apparent that it was just another move by Kubo to get Unohana out of the line of action and postpone her much-anticipated premier fight. It is almost becoming a bit of a running gag; like when Unohana volunteered to go on the patrol with the would-be vizards in the gaiden only to be told not to go, that seemed almost as if Kubo threw that scene in just poke at us a bit. :amuse

I am also less interested in seeing Ichigo fight Ulquiorra, but it is an inevitability and will happen sooner or later. I expect that Kubo will probably show a chapter or two of one fight and then switch the scene to another fight.

Yeah tsuki, those manga writes like to tease us dont they ?... Lol, even when she entered HM, those Espadas police force just chikened when they heard her say she was a captain... Kubo you big teaser! Looking forward to her fight.

We've been seeing alot of ichigo lately, while some other caracters we'd like to see are taken off the spotlight.
Yes, Ichigo is a prodigy, learned bankai in no time and has become Captain-level in his early shinigami debut. I know there's something special about him -- I made a theorie about it, just click on the word KING in my sig -- but sometimes his power-Ups seems to pop-up out of no were... I hope kubo explains what makes him so special to Aizen's eyes soon.

Fortisdiablos
July 23, 2008, 05:36 PM
exactly. if there wasn't goin to be one at least kubo could of told us. i might just be over reacting but i hope i am wrong 100%.


yammi>komamura (they both like to hide, komamura> face, yammi> just hide away.)

What basis do you have for this? Firstly, not wanting people to see that your are a hideous fox man doesn't imply weakness. He seemed to have stern resolve when fighting Kenpachi. I'd have to disagree with this assessment.

Tsukisama
July 23, 2008, 05:43 PM
Parallels between the captains and the espada are a little off the topic of discussion. If you would like to discuss who resembles/relates to whom among the captains and espada, then you can use this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8761). (Mentioning that Barragan may fight Yamamoto in the next chapter based on them both being old, for example, is okay, but just focusing on parallels is off-topic.)

Starky-08
July 23, 2008, 06:51 PM
Parallels between the captains and the espada are a little off the topic of discussion. If you would like to discuss who resembles/relates to whom among the captains and espada, then you can use this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8761). (Mentioning that Barragan may fight Yamamoto in the next chapter based on them both being old, for example, is okay, but just focusing on parallels is off-topic.)

Sorry for going off topic, hehe.

Anyway since Unohana is gunna have a Crucial fight, could that mean she kills someone, or maybe even someone kills her? Hell she might fight Aizen, she was the one who figured everything out the SS arc.

Akihito
July 23, 2008, 07:04 PM
ichigo gets beat down and unohona saves him...that would make my day

Espada
July 23, 2008, 07:09 PM
This chapter will probably focus on Ichigo's battle, although it will most likely be far from memorable, at least until the last two pages or so, when something big/new is suggested to happen in the next chapter.

Btw... no spoilers yet? :s

Starky-08
July 23, 2008, 07:55 PM
I hope they atleast reveal one Epada rank before the Ulquiorra fight.

hossice
July 23, 2008, 08:38 PM
Unohana might fight yammi. that was my thought when i heard about that. which means that she may go just shikai but i want her to fight w/ bankai. all the captains who fought espada went bankai. mayuri,byakuya, and that is it. but i think the upcomming battles will be the same but w/ more moves since top 3.


im actually thinking no ch. but hopefully some tommorrow. when would they be up tomorrow?

Devil-buster
July 23, 2008, 10:29 PM
Unohana might fight yammi. that was my thought when i heard about that. which means that she may go just shikai but i want her to fight w/ bankai. all the captains who fought espada went bankai. mayuri,byakuya, and that is it. but i think the upcomming battles will be the same but w/ more moves since top 3.


im actually thinking no ch. but hopefully some tommorrow. when would they be up tomorrow?

ha ha mad funny.....yammy vs unohana.....if that happens unohana wont even need he zanpaktou...she will crush yammy with her pinky better yet her toe pinky....c'mon even captains like ukitake are afraid of her strength....

I think yammy is hiding in a hole somewhere or may be aizen sent him on a secret mission(unlikely).....if he crawls out...I think he will fight team ichigo(sans ichigo).....

P.S. is there bleach this week???

VeshWolfe
July 23, 2008, 11:18 PM
nah you forgot Kenpachi, he fought without even having shikai
his sword is in a permanent state of shikai like Ichigo's.

please, no more off-topic discussion about this. see stickied thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23678)


ha ha mad funny.....yammy vs unohana.....if that happens unohana wont even need he zanpaktou...she will crush yammy with her pinky better yet her toe pinky....c'mon even captains like ukitake are afraid of her strength....

I think yammy is hiding in a hole somewhere or may be aizen sent him on a secret mission(unlikely).....if he crawls out...I think he will fight team ichigo(sans ichigo).....

P.S. is there bleach this week???

i beleive there is. The past few weeks it seems like the RAWs and spoilers have come out later though. if there was no chapter they would have put a message at the end of the last chapter, and plus they just skipped a week. i dont think they would do it again for fear of fans thinkingit would become a habit.

Revan46
July 24, 2008, 12:01 AM
Well that probably should be in the spoiler thread though its not open yet, but translation?

spoiler threads now opened :)

Grimjaww
July 24, 2008, 12:37 AM
I was watching the espada meeting agian, and Nnoitra was teasing Hallibel by saying "Are you Afraid" referring to Ichigo and Co. Her response is what intrigued me, she turns all agitated and says "What did you say", so I highly doubt that Nnoitra would really say that to the number 1 espada, but we have seen him show a disgust for woman being stronger than him. I'm sure if there was a little more to the conversation, we could decipher Hallibel's number............