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igotthegoods
July 25, 2008, 01:04 AM
Chapter 319 is out! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35712).

Discuss and predict away ^^

Castro03
July 25, 2008, 01:07 AM
FIRST!!!

But seriously, thought it was an ok chapter.

Liked how Kira got pissed off.

hossice
July 25, 2008, 01:17 AM
at least we might get new characters for the game finally.

i wonder if Ikkakuk will go bankai? most people who fought went like all out, except zaraki he just used kendo, which as of now, is his best knock out move. if Ikkaku goes bankai his secrets out. only yumichika and ichigos friend knows. so then yama might be impressed, if hes paying attention, and think about promoting him to a captain. which wont happen unless zaraki says he can cuz Ikkaku wants to be under zarakis command till he dies IIRC. but if zaraki says so then there is a chance. and i would like to see the looks on the others faces, "what? ikkau can do bankai? since when? no way? what?!" just some of the reactons might look like. i would also like Ikkakus look w/ his captain uniform. new costume for the game if it happens. but idk if he will go bankai. i hope so cuz hes a fav. of mine and his bankai was only shown for a little while and i wanted to see more. complete opposite w/ ichigo. i want more shikai personally. i mean byakuya has done it three times! but IMO we will se komamuras and tosens again soon. so i hope to see Ikkaku go all out and have some trouble again but over come it.

Revan46
July 25, 2008, 01:26 AM
I enjoyed this chapter actually...though I was disturbed by Cool-horn as I thought I'd be....I loved Yumichika's reaction though =P. As per Ikkaku changing Bankai? I dunno I doubt he will....but seriously hossice can you speak a little more clearly? All I read was omgthatwaseffingamazingimeandidyouseethatandthat?!?!?!?!OMFG. Sorry but it was just so unclear....

EvolutionIX
July 25, 2008, 01:31 AM
It was clear to me. But anyway, my prediction is that the fights will start. Shinigami's overwhelmed quite quickly. It seems to me like they will need backup. Vaizards coming? Or helping the hollows? I think they will help us, unless they go their seperate ways. Half helps aizen and the rest helps SS and ichigo. Hmm...

hossice
July 25, 2008, 01:31 AM
i like the chapter. it was good as i thought it would be. though the name cool-horn is seriously the wrong name.


and what wrong w/ the way i "speak"? i wrote something not said something. u mean shorten my sentences?

notoriousnougat
July 25, 2008, 01:35 AM
I guess Ikkaku will be forced to go Bankai sooner or later. I'm more interested to see Yumichika's shikai in action though.

I do hope the fights won't be long and drawn out, we still have Ichigo's fight with Ulquiorra and now with 4 at least, plus the captain's battles >.< isn't there too much going on?

big_p
July 25, 2008, 01:35 AM
Holy Crap, I never wouldve thought that Zechs Marquis would become a hollow!!!

Interesting Chapter, I wanna see what Hisagi is capable of, especially since if I recall correctly, didnt Yumichika already beat him back in the SS arc?

What are the bets on which VC other than Ikkaku has Bankai?

segua
July 25, 2008, 01:40 AM
The personalities of Baragon's personaly arrancars are just hilarious.

kkck
July 25, 2008, 01:43 AM
After reading the chapter i gotta say: I hate kubo. I dont mind seeing how 3248264276827 fights are being set at the same time, but IMO this is taking way to long.And this isnt even the end, vizards still have to arrive to the scene. And probably kubo will need like 3 chapters just to show shinigami's shikai and then probably bankai and then all the arrancar releases plus vizards releases (if any). Now that I think about it, that would take like 5 chapters lol.
Gaiden was awesome but the story hasnt really move for several months now, this is cruel.

Shiro-kun
July 25, 2008, 01:43 AM
The personalities of Baragon's personaly arrancars are just hilarious.
^They are all wierd :amuse
I really wonder how powerful they are

and Kira had a creepy serious moment

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 01:46 AM
Well as expected, we got more introductions and talking. Not something I can say that we didn't already know what the general idea of this chapter would be. But thankfully, we know a general idea of what is gonna happen in the next few chapters and can expect many things from these vices/fraccions

Revan46
July 25, 2008, 01:50 AM
Sorry hossice, to me it was just confusing though that could be the english major in me creeping out =p. Anyway I am curious how many more chapters before we see Ichigo again. And same with the three top espada releases...Like seriously are the captains and espada just going to float there while the four fraccion and VC fight?

C4animax
July 25, 2008, 01:53 AM
he should have skiped the introduction, i don't care about the four dragon, i care about the top 3 espadas, about the two "two" swordsmen, i care about ichigo vs ulquiora...

On thing seems sure i guess is that kira has an advantage since he had a hit on his ennemie (wasn't his blade the one that could increase gravity on you?) well at least i'm sure on the issue about 2 to 3 of the good guys...

patz
July 25, 2008, 02:05 AM
Soifon's lieutenant is so annoying. We could get story further without his dry joke.

One Bad Mo Fo
July 25, 2008, 02:08 AM
Holy christ, it turned out to be a waste of a chapter after all. Kubo killing time, and not long after a week off no less. I wonder if he's having trouble. All I really care about at this point is seeing what the Vizards do.

Darek Khort
July 25, 2008, 02:08 AM
I liked this chapter. Some funny scenes. Introductions to some fraccion.
As for Yumichika, I have a feeling that he will try his best to hide his shikai ability. Afterall, he did mention last time he used it against Hisagi that he didn't want others to know about his ability because his squad would hate him for it.
As for his ability itself I reckon he'll be forced to use it just as Ikkaku will probably be forced to use his bankai. Afterall, he used his bankai on that other arrancar back when Grim came to Karakura. My assumption is that the king's fraccion must be relatively stronger than some random arrancar (or was he Grim's fraccion?).


I reckon the pillars will be broken, or at least some of them will be. Makes the story more interesting. If they aren't broken then it gets kinda boring.
If they are broken though I guess it could turn into a DBZ-style "savethecitizensfrommassiveattack".

YJiang
July 25, 2008, 02:13 AM
I wish Yumichika got a cooler opponent. But still, Yumichika's conversation was hilarious.

decadencia
July 25, 2008, 02:14 AM
i feel oh so teased..... by the first two pages i just knew we wouldnt move forward much... hopefully something very interesting comes of these fights cause if not im gonna be rele irritated.... ulqiuorra has his sword out dammit!!! *sigh* talk about suspense..... so next chapter.... who do u guys think will fight first or have their fight shown first i mean?

Darek Khort
July 25, 2008, 02:28 AM
I reckon it'll be Kira last. Then the fire will eventually disappear sometime and Gin will be like "hi2u Kira".
Probably Hisagi first.
Then Ikakku. Yumichika will be like "oh shi-, everyone will know about his bankai at this rate" when its fairing badly for Ikakku.
And then Yumichika will eventually be forced to reveal his shikai's ability.
And lastly Kira, because of Gin. *nods*

Alexis
July 25, 2008, 02:53 AM
I don't like Barragans comment "I'll send four dragons to squash four ants"

It reminds me of what Aizen said to Hitsugaya before. "Don't use such strong words, or it will make you seem weak."

Barragan is really too arogant, and I think it will make him look stupid in the end.

decadencia
July 25, 2008, 04:12 AM
I reckon it'll be Kira last. Then the fire will eventually disappear sometime and Gin will be like "hi2u Kira".
Probably Hisagi first.
Then Ikakku. Yumichika will be like "oh shi-, everyone will know about his bankai at this rate" when its fairing badly for Ikakku.
And then Yumichika will eventually be forced to reveal his shikai's ability.
And lastly Kira, because of Gin. *nods*

thats some good reasoning lol seems likely actually... how long u reckon til we see ulqio and ichi?

Antillio
July 25, 2008, 04:46 AM
Have to say i'm pretty curious how strong these fraccions are.
And there intro's where kind of funny and makes me think these beasts are cap level.

Po: Our god and king know's full well that your no match for me.
Findor: What seat are you? ''Lieutenant'' Then i will fight at the level of a Lieutenant.
Cool-Horn: Looks horribly wrong and for that reason only i hope he dies in a 1 page fight.
Abirama: Shouting to get eachother warmed up , hahah this 1 was by far my favorite.

Offcourse the story did not move at all but by far i liked it more then the previous chapter, The more i read Bleach the less i care what happens to Ichigo and even less what happens with his goon sqaud of weakling friends. Either that is because Ichigo and Co are to weak and never see any real progress or its just the simple fact that evry1 else he meats is way cooler then himself.

Travis
July 25, 2008, 05:06 AM
I'm kind of disappointed with this whole fight between the espada and shinigami.

It's like everyone is too relaxed and doing nothing. Why is one of the espada sitting on a throne instead of ready to fight? Why aren't the captains attacking at all? There are like 6 captains there and 3 espada but no plan of action yet. Instead Yamamoto and his crew are just letting them send fraccion after those pillars to switch the town back and forth. Why is Yamamoto's sword back in cane form? It's like they aren't even ready to fight and just waiting for no reason. Maybe Kubo doesn't know what to do.

I mean honestly are you going to wait for your enemy to achieve it's goal while you're just sitting there doing nothing? If the captains don't do something immediately after Barragan sending out 4 fraccion splitting his forces somewhat, then I'm just going to be very annoyed with this whole thing.

Moki
July 25, 2008, 05:07 AM
w8, Barragans fraccions confuses me... :s

What happened to the one helping Abarima Redder with the throne thing down to the left here?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/11/

Surely it's not the same as this one, surely... :err
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/319.1/13/

The masks and apearance is all different, but Barragan only has four fraccions right?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315/14/

Either the cross-dresser is a shapeshifter or I've stared myself blind and stupid on something...

Travis
July 25, 2008, 05:16 AM
This just kind of confirms Kubo is a little lost I think. Also from the way Aizen speaks it doesn't sound like Kubo had any idea at the time for the pillar thing meaning he must have recently came up with it to show some of the more popular characters being left out of the fight or to buy him some time to figure out what he's doing with this fight.

OhDearMoshe
July 25, 2008, 05:24 AM
So nice to see Kira having more screen time. Even better to see Ikkaku's return. Most of all I am looking forward to how he's going to handle this situation. Will he let himself be killed or will he go bankai at all?

kat_at_heart
July 25, 2008, 05:53 AM
This chapter was just a waste of time although yumichika did make me laugh
I’m really starting to get annoyed now; kubo seems to be just prolonging things for as long as possible. Maybe now he is regretting rushing into the final battle so quick.

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 06:02 AM
So nice to see Kira having more screen time. Even better to see Ikkaku's return. Most of all I am looking forward to how he's going to handle this situation. Will he let himself be killed or will he go bankai at all?

Of course he wouldn't let himself be killed!!! In his squad, pride is everything, and to be defeated by a fracion like that is totally unacceptable for someone from the 11th squad. The same goes for Yumichika. Even though they have their reasons for not going bankai/shikai in public, they still have their honor to preserve and a duty towards SS.

By dying on a job like this without taking out their objective is failing their home and leaving their lives behind dishonorable.

But, I can tell that Yumichika and Ikkaku will do whatever it takes to take them down, and same goes for Hisagi and Kira. If any of them have a bankai, excluding Ikkaku because we already know of his, then I think that we will see them. Unless they defeat their opponent quickly with just their shikai. I have a feeling that Yumichika's shikai is pretty darn scary. I mean, he took out Hisagi back in SS like nothing, and left him in a daze.

I have high expectations from all of these upcoming fights. But some advice to everyone, patience is a virtue. (LOLOL I just felt like saying that because omg I just finished watching the Avatar the Last Airbender Finale... for the second time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS THE GREATEST THING I HAD EVER SEEN IN AVATAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) The Ichigo and Ulquiorra fight will come around eventually and we can all expect to see some good fighting going on.

Silhouette
July 25, 2008, 06:04 AM
I think this chapter's title is cool

These two pages were made of win 1 (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-319/page014.html) & 2 (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-319/page015.html). Yumichika is cruelly funny, I had a good laugh.


Have to say i'm pretty curious how strong these fraccions are.
And there intro's where kind of funny and makes me think these beasts are cap level....

I don't think the fraccions are that strong, don't get me wrong, they are no pushovers but our vice captains has not lost to less than an esapada, check out (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-319/page018.html) how Kira scarred his opponents face.

As for the fight order, some want Ichigo v Ulquiorra now, some want Yama-jii vs King Esapda first and some can't wait for Shunsui & Stark? show down...obviously it's impossible to have every fight first.

Barragan insists on having a fight in the real Karakura for the obvious reason, you guys think he will get what he wants and Karakura will be (mostly) wiped out?

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 06:08 AM
I don't think the fraccions are that strong, don't get me wrong, they are no pushovers but our vice captains has not lost to less than an esapada, check out (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-319/page018.html) how Kira scarred his opponents face.

I swear, Kira is gonna lose it and then just go insane on this enemy. I really hope he has a bankai, and I'm even more interested in what his bankai would look like and what ability it would have. ie would it still make the object it strikes heavier each time it hits it, or something even better?

I'm just happy that we're getting to see more of him and the other three vices!!! I really missed Yumichika. He never fails to crack me the hell up!!!

notBowen
July 25, 2008, 06:20 AM
i like the chapter. it was good as i thought it would be. though the name cool-horn is seriously the wrong name.


and what wrong w/ the way i "speak"? i wrote something not said something. u mean shorten my sentences? It would do you well to use some capitalization and line breaks every few sentences or so. And maybe write out entirely words such as "you" and "with".

Silhouette
July 25, 2008, 06:27 AM
This just kind of confirms Kubo is a little lost I think. Also from the way Aizen speaks it doesn't sound like Kubo had any idea at the time for the pillar thing meaning he must have recently came up with it to show some of the more popular characters being left out of the fight or to buy him some time to figure out what he's doing with this fight.

I have to disagree,

1- Kubo didn't make the "pillar guardians" appear in Karakura like everyone else which means he definitely was moving in that direction (everyone back then was wondering why Ikkaku and others hadn't shown up)

2- Aizen had a different plan, he wanted to wipe out Yamamoto in a second and destroy Karakura in it's current location in SS because Aizen is full of himself. Barragan, on the other hand, thought about the situation (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page009.html) with Aizen gone, challenged (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page011.html) Aizen's original plan and came up with a different plan(last panel) (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page012.html)

Alexis
July 25, 2008, 06:48 AM
The more I see from Barragan, the more foolish he seems. Not only underestimating his opponent whener he opens his mouth, (he did it during the meeting about Ichigo an co. invading Huelco Mundo as well) but making the wrong decisions as well.
I'm skeptical about how 'dragon' these fraccion are compared to the Vice Captains.

How can Barragan be so confident in their dominance when most of the Espada between 10 - 5 have been taken care of by various Shinigami. Both Captain class an un seated.
These fraccion shouldn't even be as strong as the #10 Espada, correct? Otherwise they would have replaced other Espada for the position.

seya
July 25, 2008, 07:01 AM
Bleach is getting great , from the pendulum chaps to the confrontation with aizen's troops , it seems that the author is newly inspired .

patedecarne
July 25, 2008, 07:04 AM
My, My, such a waste, unfortunately...

I think the only positive point was Kira in the last pages. Kubo is throwing pure fanservice with 318's last panel and chapter 319. And Yes, in My opinion Kubo is totally lost in the story, without any claer route to take, he's just making all these pointless fights to buy time, the pillars were totally irrelevant on the story, and their purpose was just to show some old faces who cannot protect Karakura;

Let's face the true, Ikkaku and the others are useless because if any of the three espadas wereto fight seriously against them, a huge massacre would take part...

lordHokage
July 25, 2008, 07:05 AM
Soifon’s lieutenant is an idiot and Barragan’s Dragons are so arrogant. The Charlotte cool horn is a perfect match up for Yumichika - I don’t look at ugly things since both them consider themselves beautiful. The four pillars - the keystones of the fake Karakura is in good hands. Overall, this chapter was great and very important. :D

basterd
July 25, 2008, 07:06 AM
Okay, I would never hav believed that the scond spoiler we got was revealing the WHOLE chap... That's a let down :/
Though, the chap wasn't that great. Just talk like always.
Not complaining the chap over all, cause really like it when their's some backstory/words from every fighter. Makes the fight more interesting!

Hope we'll see some big pillar fights in next chap! :)

jace89
July 25, 2008, 07:17 AM
LOL kubo got you guys.

All of you were complaining about Nnoitra vs kenpachi and ichigo vs grimmjow fight because it was just fighting. And now kubo gives you no fights and people cry.

Im kinda sick of people nitpicking bleach and not doing it to OTHER manga series that have way to much dialogue and little fights.

seya
July 25, 2008, 07:19 AM
My, My, such a waste, unfortunately...

I think the only positive point was Kira in the last pages. Kubo is throwing pure fanservice with 318's last panel and chapter 319. And Yes, in My opinion Kubo is totally lost in the story, without any claer route to take, he's just making all these pointless fights to buy time, the pillars were totally irrelevant on the story, and their purpose was just to show some old faces who cannot protect Karakura;

Let's face the true, Ikkaku and the others are useless because if any of the three espadas wereto fight seriously against them, a huge massacre would take part...

You 're right in a way he 's buying time with fights but they are not that pointless . I think it was a good idea to imagine that 4 pillar thing to show characters that we like . You can call it fanservice but Kubo made it coherent.
I think that he has found his route again , he knows where he 's taking us.But he has to befit that horrible bullshit (hueco mundo part) into the new storyline. let's see!

lordHokage
July 25, 2008, 07:31 AM
2- Aizen had a different plan, he wanted to wipe out Yamamoto in a second and destroy Karakura in it's current location in SS because Aizen is full of himself. Barragan, on the other hand, thought about the situation (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page009.html) with Aizen gone, challenged (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page011.html) Aizen's original plan and came up with a different plan(last panel) (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-318/page012.html)


I think Barragan wants to send a message to Aizen that he's not one of them, his plans sucks and he's not fit to be their leader. Aizen betrayed Soul Society for power so I think its only fair that the Hollows do like wise and betray him for power too. :D

THE KING
July 25, 2008, 08:11 AM
Now, when it's time for the big fights between top rankers.
These 4 fights feel more like fillers to me.

Alexis
July 25, 2008, 08:15 AM
All of you were complaining about Nnoitra vs kenpachi because it was just fighting.
I don't think that's what most people were complaining about.
It was the almighty two-hand-no-jutsu.

Darth Executor
July 25, 2008, 08:48 AM
Offcourse the story did not move at all but by far i liked it more then the previous chapter, The more i read Bleach the less i care what happens to Ichigo and even less what happens with his goon sqaud of weakling friends. Either that is because Ichigo and Co are to weak and never see any real progress or its just the simple fact that evry1 else he meats is way cooler then himself.

Umm, Ichigo beat two captains and an espada. Ishida beat a captain and has been steadily progressing. Chad lagged behind a bit but he's coming along nicely too. Other than Orihime they're all pretty strong.

hajialibaig
July 25, 2008, 08:51 AM
Okay okay, we all know this chapter was pure fanservice, but think about how great it'll look in the anime.

And also, the big fights are gonna start sooner or later, SO why not have extra moments and character development in between so we can remmeber it better (like 5 years down the road)??, like extra content is always better (Assuming it doesn't hinder the big fights, i.e. kubo opting for skippin them..)

Let's just wait another 5 months for the big fight to start :D I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!.... okay maybe a month lol

Darth Executor
July 25, 2008, 08:57 AM
So nice to see Kira having more screen time. Even better to see Ikkaku's return. Most of all I am looking forward to how he's going to handle this situation. Will he let himself be killed or will he go bankai at all?

He pretty much has to go bankai, his shikai sucks something awful.
[hr]



Let's face the true, Ikkaku and the others are useless because if any of the three espadas wereto fight seriously against them, a huge massacre would take part...

I'm pretty sure the captains wouldn't let them take on weaker shinigami while they sit there drinking coffee.

hajialibaig
July 25, 2008, 08:58 AM
Umm, Ichigo beat two captains and an espada. Ishida beat a captain and has been steadily progressing. Chad lagged behind a bit but he's coming along nicely too. Other than Orihime they're all pretty strong.

Ichigo beat no captain!... Ichigo got K.O. before kenpachi (Kenpachi Wins! <doesn't matter what kenpachi says, he's an idiot>)

Byakuya was pwning Ichigo before Hollow Showed Up, and after the final exchange, Byakuya just walked away with a shunpo while Ichigo could barely stand, Byakuya could've finished him OFF easily if he had the same attitude as Nnoitra in that position/time/place...

So yea, I say Ichigo beat no captain

jdashmaj
July 25, 2008, 09:39 AM
Ichigo beat no captain!... Ichigo got K.O. before kenpachi (Kenpachi Wins! <doesn't matter what kenpachi says, he's an idiot>)

Byakuya was pwning Ichigo before Hollow Showed Up, and after the final exchange, Byakuya just walked away with a shunpo while Ichigo could barely stand, Byakuya could've finished him OFF easily if he had the same attitude as Nnoitra in that position/time/place...

So yea, I say Ichigo beat no captain

And Ichigo could have finished off Byakuya as well http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/163/02/ Ichigo no matter how you splice it has the power to fight with a captain on equal terms because he control his bankai.

Silhouette
July 25, 2008, 10:19 AM
LOL kubo got you guys.

All of you were complaining about Nnoitra vs kenpachi and ichigo vs grimmjow fight because it was just fighting. And now kubo gives you no fights and people cry.

Im kinda sick of people nitpicking bleach and not doing it to OTHER manga series that have way to much dialogue and little fights.

Thanked the post & QFT and yes it does get f@cking annoying.


I think Barragan wants to send a message to Aizen that he's not one of them, his plans sucks and he's not fit to be their leader. Aizen betrayed Soul Society for power so I think its only fair that the Hollows do like wise and betray him for power too. :D

The sad thing is that Barragan will go back to being Aizen's dog once he's freed

eddy26
July 25, 2008, 10:24 AM
I liked the chapter it is nice that we get to see the VC and 11th squad fight. If Kubo went straight into the two main battles we would never get the chance to see Yumichika, Hisagi, and Kira actually fight opponents. Yumichika fought Hisagi in SS but all we got to see is Yumichika use his shikai that's it not an actual clash of swords. Kira we only saw his shikai but not an actual fight because Matsumoto's shikai was the perfect counter to it. Ikkaku we saw him kick ass against Grimmjow's arrancar but I don't mind seeing him fight again.
If Baragan's fraccion get killed quickly I think that is going to be a clue that Baragan isn't espada one. You would think the strongest espada would have the strongest fraccion so if they get wiped out without effort Baragan = 2 or 3. Of these four battles all signs point to Kira being the first one shown especially with how this chapter ended. That is if next chapter continues to be about the pillars Kubo might switch to Ichigo. The pillars are probably separated far from each other so Yumichika would be able to use his shikai without having to worry about Ikkaku watching. Ikkaku on the other hand well he is in a little trouble because if he goes bankai people are going to notice. Someone using bankai is a little too noticeable especially with the captain and espada just looking at each other. I wish some arrancar or espada kills Soifon's VC already he is just too dumb really he is on steroids or something all brawn no brain.

Umbra Wolf
July 25, 2008, 10:34 AM
He pretty much has to go bankai, his shikai sucks something awful.
If you ask me I would say that Kira's shikai is very powerful. Just half a dozen strikes and you can't wiel your sowrd anymore than he hurries up and decipates. End of the fight.
With this strategy he could own Ichigo with his Hack N' slash style.

hajialibaig
July 25, 2008, 10:56 AM
ichigo needs some serious training...he doesn't know how to use any kido, no swordmanship skills, no hand-to-hand combat skills, nothing, just swings his sword like a bat....just charges into a fight with brute strength..with no combat strategy or anything... That's why everyone gets the better off easily.. and he has trouble defeating easy opponents... . **so annoying**

nadhare
July 25, 2008, 12:28 PM
ichigo needs some serious training...he doesn't know how to use any kido, no swordmanship skills, no hand-to-hand combat skills, nothing, just swings his sword like a bat....just charges into a fight with brute strength..with no combat strategy or anything... That's why everyone gets the better off easily.. and he has trouble defeating easy opponents... . **so annoying**

yeah u're right, from the three kind jutsu that shinnigami should have, swing a sword like ichigo always do, fight hand to hand combat like soifon, or even magic like rukia n kuchiki taico always do, ichigo only skilled in one, the sword. :blink:blink

mr.danly
July 25, 2008, 12:52 PM
ichigo needs some serious training...he doesn't know how to use any kido, no swordmanship skills, no hand-to-hand combat skills, nothing, just swings his sword like a bat....just charges into a fight with brute strength..with no combat strategy or anything... That's why everyone gets the better off easily.. and he has trouble defeating easy opponents... . **so annoying**

WHAT??? Did you really just say that ichigo has no hand to hand combat skills? He was on an equal level with tatsuki, who is like the karate world champion or whatever, until very recently. He, without using his sword, disabled and defeated 3 vice captains using their shikais at once with his bare hands. He has excellent swordsmanship. He was able to figure out and effectively counter renji's shikai after a few minutes. He was able to figure out and defeat ikkaku's shikai after a few seconds. While its true that he doesn't have any kido, he does have getsuga tenshou and his ridiculous bankai speed. Not to mention hollow transformation. Even without his hollow transformation, he's like a faster, smarter kenpachi with getsuga. Ichigo doesn't need kido, and he is very intelligent.

Yabe
July 25, 2008, 01:06 PM
The first time I peeked through the descriptive second spoiler I felt terribly annoyed that Kubo really did focus on the fantastic four's fight (because I wanted to see the captains'/ichigo's scenes more); but not until I read to the pages of Yumichika's and his opponent's conversations though. Hisagi's and Kira's fights seems to be interesting also since I don't recall seeing they fight with all their might.

munafn
July 25, 2008, 01:14 PM
WHAT??? Did you really just say that ichigo has no hand to hand combat skills? He was on an equal level with tatsuki, who is like the karate world champion or whatever, until very recently. He, without using his sword, disabled and defeated 3 vice captains using their shikais at once with his bare hands. He has excellent swordsmanship. He was able to figure out and effectively counter renji's shikai after a few minutes. He was able to figure out and defeat ikkaku's shikai after a few seconds. While its true that he doesn't have any kido, he does have getsuga tenshou and his ridiculous bankai speed. Not to mention hollow transformation. Even without his hollow transformation, he's like a faster, smarter kenpachi with getsuga. Ichigo doesn't need kido, and he is very intelligent.

I agree with most of the things you said but his bankai speed hasnt been very impressive lately. I mean dont get me wrong, it was amazing against byakuya...but in the recent events its not anything big. Maybe because we have seen it so many times ( plus a few extra counting the anime fillers) His mask has been the whole power up for him. I feel he is faster than before and obviously has a raw power increase. But still he needs a Getsuga Cero or something like that..Cero tensho sounds better maybe.hehe. chapter overall was better than the last couple but not what most people were expecting.. Its like this mountain of hope that just kicks u back down everyweek..lol...i never used to complain about a chapter. this board has alot of influence with its negativity :P (no offence to anyone.lol)
would be interesting to see kira's fight..

I think Ikkaku would have to go bankai if he wants to stand a chance. Well we dont know how strong they are but like someone mentioned they cant be stronger than espada 10 or else they would have made the ranks. If this is the case, i think these guys shouldnt have a problem considering how rukia was able to take down no.9. Kira is looking badass ready to drink some blood...i cant wait to see the yumchika scene animated..that was hilarious. No other thoughts on the chapter..Was definitely a step up but i really would like to see action soon. patience is a virtue but waiting is a bitc* lol

KyanWan
July 25, 2008, 01:16 PM
The sad thing is that Barragan will go back to being Aizen's dog once he's freed

You know what would be funny as hell?

Stark grabbing Aizen - and Barrigan telling him - "You think I didn't realize all along ... that it was all an illusion?"

Then proceeding to rip out Aizen's esophagus with his bare hands.

( Erm, that's more Gantz - so - I imagine it would be more like an Ulquiorra spearhand to the heart. )

munafn
July 25, 2008, 01:28 PM
haha that is a great theory, Seriously though, Aizen is just unique. I have no villain to compare him to..he is in a league of his own...If there is another gaiden it should indulge in aizens past and what happend. I feel like he was molested as a child..poor thing

Moogle Mango
July 25, 2008, 01:28 PM
I think Shuuhei's and Kira's appearances is rather unique, as their ex-captains are with Aizen and rather close by.

I can guess that those fraccions will use that to startle them, at the least, to create an opening.

cero_tenshou
July 25, 2008, 02:07 PM
well i kinda see where these fights are going.

shuuhei will definitely have to release, and probably prove that he isn't any ordinary vice captain. we may see a bankai from him (it's about time that he gets one).

yumichika is going to b sucking the reiatsu and life force out of that transvestite (hopefully). it would be cool if we see a bankai from him.

it would be good for ikkaku's rep for him not to have to use bankai in this fight, but i hope kubo doesn't pass up the opportunity to expose ikkaku's bankai to the captains.

it doesn't look like kira would need more than his shikai here. he is able to cut this arrancar without him having to release, so probably he wouldn't need a bankai here.

hopefully for the next chapter, they start the ichigo vs ulquiorra fight. but somehow i don't really see that happening.

Raysen_ht
July 25, 2008, 02:57 PM
I hate the way Kubo proceded with this last few chapters...
He could have put this VC x Fraction battles (which are useless imo) before setting the whole stage for the Ichigo x Ulquiorra... and nothing happened the whole friging chapter... Kubo is just making fillers imo

hossice
July 25, 2008, 02:58 PM
y does everyone want the Ichigo vs Ulquiorra fight? i dont want it really. I mean yeah its another fight but so. Ichigo gets to much time. and when the fights over people will be like,"Man that was too quick" or "it should of been longer" or "Ulquiorra should of beat Ichigo easily, since he beat Ichigo once" Just wait. and it might be better than most expect it to be. IMO that will be after the captains fights. since that is a major fight, it involves Ichigo, and it seems most people want it.


I agree with the whole this is to stall. but if Kubo didn't do this the other fights might be shorter or not as well planned out. so IMO I dont care. i love to see new fights. there could be some twists involved. plus new people for the new bleach game. XD

Crude
July 25, 2008, 02:58 PM
This chapter really makes me want to see Kira kick some ass!

Travis
July 25, 2008, 03:25 PM
y does everyone want the Ichigo vs Ulquiorra fight? i dont want it really. I mean yeah its another fight but so. Ichigo gets to much time. and when the fights over people will be like,"Man that was too quick" or "it should of been longer" or "Ulquiorra should of beat Ichigo easily, since he beat Ichigo once" Just wait. and it might be better than most expect it to be. IMO that will be after the captains fights. since that is a major fight, it involves Ichigo, and it seems most people want it.


I agree with the whole this is to stall. but if Kubo didn't do this the other fights might be shorter or not as well planned out. so IMO I dont care. i love to see new fights. there could be some twists involved. plus new people for the new bleach game. XD

The problem isn't with people just wanting to see the Ulquiorra and Ichigo fight. It's with the fact that the past few chapters haven't been very good at story telling at all. Kubo changed the appearance of an arrancar and the writing seems pretty bad so far and like he doesn't know what he's doing right now.

There should be more going on with the Espada and Captains. Barragan sitting on a throne seems pretty dumb, whether he's that strong or not. He mentions being outnumbered yet he sits down. If Halibel and Stark were strong enough to take on all 6 of them or if he could repel all of them while sitting down, why mention it like it matters? Yamamoto standing there with his cane, not ready to do anything looks dumb. This is probably the most important fight deciding the fate of SS, the real world, and heuco mundo, yet the strongest are relaxed and not doing anything yet or even saying they're doing anything yet. Seems to be no tension or suspense with them. I'm not a great writer so I don't know what the problem may exactly be but I can tell there is definitely something bad going on when I read this. I'm not usually a critic unless something is really bad, but that's the way I see it when looking at what's going on currently, and it seems quite a few others agree.

hossice
July 25, 2008, 03:29 PM
on onemanga the whole ur ugly, no you are. was different it was fugly.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/319.1/15/

and during the chapter fracion was flacion. prolly like halibel haribel. *shudder*. and u notice cool horns zanpaktou hilt?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/319.1/15/

a flower...................................gay

Starky-08
July 25, 2008, 03:57 PM
It was the same on Bleachexile, lookin forward to see Kira kick some ass, and I think Yumichika will be the 1st to dispatch his opponent.

Raysen_ht
July 25, 2008, 04:06 PM
I think All of them got bankai now... thats the only thing that would make this fights interesting to me...

mgalli
July 25, 2008, 04:10 PM
this fight better last only one chapters, i wanna get to the real stuff

anyways, this chapter makes me think even more now that barragan isnt number 1. I think he has an inferiority complex and makes his fraccion refer to him as "his majesty"

Earlier I heard a prediction that maybe Barragan might have been the king of the hollows before he was an arrancar (or something like that) and thats why he acts like he is the king of the espada.....but hes not, stark or halibel is (most likely stark)

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 05:37 PM
Why are all of you so fricken irritated with the way these past couple of chapters were?

Gosh, I know all of us expected to see our Espada/Captain fights, and our Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight. Even I wanted to see those, but what is going on here is a pretty good story line.

Moving into the FKT with your top 3 espada. Yamamoto releasing his zanpaktou and trapping the strongest enemies in a cage while their three lackies (strong too) fight off the 6+ shinigami. Baragan figuring out a strategy to get the RKT back to where it's supposed to be and then having it foiled by Yamamoto with 4 strong forces of his own. Baragan sending out his forces all so that Baragan can get Aizen to do what he wants to do, and that is make the key.

You see, if we just went str8 into fighting, all of these issues would've come up like, "Why didn't Kubo just have Baragan go after the 4 pillars and just destroy it?" or, "How come the captains in the FKT didn't just attack the 3 espada the second they came?" blah blah blah blah blah

Come on you guys, there's always gonna be things like this in a story, even if there's a battle that's about to happen. Give me one example where people fighting (in this manga) never stopped to talk or give reason for why they're fighting their opponent.

and why do they stop and do that? Because it makes more sense, not only to the readers, but for the author as well. Because if we never got any explanations for what was going on, we would be so lost in a bunch of pictures that we don't even know what the purpose of that picture was for. We come up with our own conclusions and then start this huge thing where people are getting crazy and irritant because their way isn't the right way.

SO please, just stop saying that these past chapters were a waste. Because hello... wasn't it to be expected?

Caligumenthe
July 25, 2008, 05:41 PM
Every single one of these Fraccion have Barragan's arrogance (border-lining stupidity). A lot of this chapter was centered around comical aspects (rice crackers).

I don't imagine the next chapter to be a linear installment. I think the story is going to move to the battle in Las Noches, but who knows...

...Barragan gets more wrinkles every week.

Starky-08
July 25, 2008, 05:43 PM
Yeah it was expected and I enjoyed it, when Ichigo first went to Soul Society I thought Ikkaku and Yumichika would have just been randomers who'd die, but now they are like members of the fantastic four lol

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah it was expected and I enjoyed it, when Ichigo first went to Soul Society I thought Ikkaku and Yumichika would have just been randomers who'd die, but now they are like members of the fantastic four lol

Uhahahahahaha!!!!!!! The Fantastic Four!!! That's the best one I've read so far.

I think that's a very fitting name for Yumichika, Ikkaku, Kira, and Hisagi. You've got a wind zanpaktou, a weight zanpaktou, a kidou zanpaktou, and a ? zanpaktou.

koolio

anonym9191
July 25, 2008, 06:35 PM
I wonder if the "Ants" and "Dragons" could be somehow refering to the story of "David vs. Goliath" as to say: Even if the Arrancar would be dragons the "small ones" (though I wonder if they are really ants against THOSE Arrancar) would still win.

Though I guess that is too much interpretation :)

Btw. regarding the chapter itself: Well it might seem to be unnecessary BUT I think it WAS necessary. As also the last one. I guess at least one of the pillars will get destroyed making all that necessary.
Regarding why the Espada and captains are not fighting yet: I would see to test each others strentght or to see how good they are or something in that direction.
Also I don't think it is stalled but of course it might seem like this because their really didn't happen that much.
And some things might really were to gain time like Sofoin's VC - wasn't that needed though it might at least was a small joke and very likely he wanted to start with the fights with a new chapter and not just somewhere in between...

The Adamant Dragon
July 25, 2008, 07:17 PM
Lol, Barragan's Fraccions are a bunch of weirdos...
Its funny to me how Kikkaku seems to always pick the tallest of opponents. But kira has displayed the best shikai so far... His Bankai should be Awsom. I cant wait to see it. Overall it was a nice chapter, but I hate to see all those captains in stand still.

Raizen
July 25, 2008, 07:20 PM
I think if any character should die it should be soifon VC. He seems so stupid and ignorant. I don't see how he became a VC.

As for the chapter, it was true I was a bit disappointed but I guess it was necessary. I do like those 4. They each are kind of unique and it's quite fun to see them. But I really want to see the captains fighting instead. I think one of the captains should have just shunpo and killed those 4 right away. That would have been cool and showcased the strength of the captains.

Oh and that transvestite, he/she stated that IT is the number 1 fraccion, does that mean that IT is the strongest or do you guys think it is just arrogance

Edome
July 25, 2008, 07:24 PM
Come on you guys, there's always gonna be things like this in a story, even if there's a battle that's about to happen. Give me one example where people fighting (in this manga) never stopped to talk or give reason for why they're fighting their opponent.


The problem a lot of people are having, is with the manga itself (how it's being written currently). If the problem is the manga itself, then using the manga as a point of reference doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I agree with you about the build up of the fights, and how their would be some complaints if they were too quick, etc. However, what some people are getting @ is not necessarily the pacing, but how it's portrayed. Almost none of the participants in this major battle look battle-ready. They are all more or less standing around staring at each other.

In other mangas, even if there is plenty of talking going on (as is pretty standard for mangas), if there is a fight going on the characters act like it. What seems to be going on currently is a bunch of stall tactics to help Kubo figure out how he's going to write the next series of events.

It happens, especially when your writing something that spans a year+, and even though it might be necessary for the writer, it doesn't make for a good story at the time it gets used.

hajialibaig
July 25, 2008, 07:28 PM
Kubo been stalling for too long now:
-2 months via the gaiden
-4 weeks now and nothing happened
-also took a break for 2 weeks...

WTH is going on, this is becoming rather tiresome

Onomatopoeia
July 25, 2008, 07:51 PM
Oi! Don't bash the gaiden that was arguably Kubo's best work and also gave some good backstory that this story needed because up until then it was somewhat shallow.

And honestly this really doesn't seem much like a fight... more like a hostile tea party -_- Neither side seems to be fighting all their doing is making jokes.

Raysen_ht
July 25, 2008, 08:21 PM
^I totally agree!! The Gayden was good (took a while for things starting to happen, but still...), and was tottaly needed!!

But ever since it finished, nothing, i repeat NOTHING happened... just a bunch of stalling filler chapters like the one we got this week... (the worst one imo)

hossice
July 25, 2008, 08:29 PM
Moving into the FKT with your top 3 espada. Yamamoto releasing his zanpaktou and trapping the strongest enemies in a cage while their three lackies (strong too) fight off the 6+ shinigami.

so who r the three lackies? u know stark is trapped? so u say he is a strong enemy? or was that a mess up on ur part?


every time i think about yumichikas opponent and their exchanges it makes me laugh more than this
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/62/13/



and i was looking around, i think i found aroniero (spelling? 9th espada if i spelled it wrong) in earlier chapters! who is the other? im prolly mistaking them for byakuya and renji but idk. sorry if im wrong.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/51/01/

y do people hate this chapter? it was good. any chapter we get is good.

cero_tenshou
July 25, 2008, 08:31 PM
i must say that yumichika has never looked more manly than he did in that chapter. that transvestite is ridiculous. i think i can do without seeing his release, seriously. i don't think he's the number 1 fraccion though. i think the strongest is the one fighting hisagi.

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 08:42 PM
so who r the three lackies? u know stark is trapped? so u say he is a strong enemy? or was that a mess up on ur part?

no. nothing about that part is wrong. Stark isn't trapped in the cage. and I meant by lackies is that the espada ARE lackies! they're Aizens henchmen.
[hr]

i must say that yumichika has never looked more manly than he did in that chapter. that transvestite is ridiculous. i think i can do without seeing his release, seriously. i don't think he's the number 1 fraccion though. i think the strongest is the one fighting hisagi.

IT was probably saying that out of arrogance. and I agree with u. I think Hisagi has the strongest one out of the 4

hossice
July 25, 2008, 08:47 PM
it looked like it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/12-13/

and also y would he cough?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/15/

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 09:04 PM
I though at first that all of them were in it, but then later on I realized it was just the shinigami that were captured.

Stark probably did that because of the heat of the flames and that he was in the way and all that stuff.

But if you look, there are no flames around him.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/13/

and when we see the fire cage behind Baragan, he's referring to Aizen that's why.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/12/
Then in that last panel he's looking at Stark.

hossice
July 25, 2008, 09:07 PM
well that first link was just like a zoom in or like an action thing. it focuses on that instead of the suroundings. but i hope ur right so then stark can fight. thats what brought me down a little thinking he wont fight until later since hes in the fire. but thanks, and i still have a little doubt but if ur wrong oh well. stark will fight anyways (if im wrong on this im gonna go insane) so it doesnt matter.

hyn_pride93
July 25, 2008, 09:09 PM
ya, it really doesn't matter all that much.

Because Stark will fight. He has to fight or else it'll just be a total waste having an espada apart of the top 3 come to the battle field for nothing.

mr.danly
July 25, 2008, 10:08 PM
haha that is a great theory, Seriously though, Aizen is just unique. I have no villain to compare him to..he is in a league of his own...If there is another gaiden it should indulge in aizens past and what happend. I feel like he was molested as a child..poor thing

I think Aizen's too messed up to have been molested as a child. He probably molested the other children. O.O

Onomatopoeia
July 25, 2008, 10:13 PM
Ya know It's funny but I kinda suspected that Kubo would unleash 20 setup chapters without entering the real fight. I mean the way I saw it was we had to have a ton of fight scenes and at the very least 3 espada releases, 4 bankais, 8(?) Fraccion releases. Guess what though this isn't even counting the Fantastic 4 that just showed up or Traitor Captains(because their in a hot barrier right now) plus Vaizards have to pop up and theirs a godload of bankais and Shikais their(Arguably 8 bankais).

Theirs no way Kubo's that good. He has to start eliminating them one at a time.

bakura_revenge
July 25, 2008, 10:13 PM
I think Aizen's too messed up to have been molested as a child. He probably molested the other children. O.O

Not actually. i think aizen is the best villain i ever know. he always seem move on his own pace and not even make "what the heck?" kind of look when something goes "wrong".

gold349
July 26, 2008, 03:54 AM
no. nothing about that part is wrong. Stark isn't trapped in the cage. and I meant by lackies is that the espada ARE lackies! they're Aizens henchmen.
<hr noshade size="1">


IT was probably saying that out of arrogance. and I agree with u. I think Hisagi has the strongest one out of the 4


IMO I would say that Hisagi and Ikkakau are both captain material now, cool horn is probably being arrogant but we never know, I mean Arisigawa has a win over Hisagi, maybe for that reason and maybe kubo wants to show something of Arisigawa as the other 3 have had some sort of development.

I do not know why people are so bored already with this battle, this is what we have been waiting for and at least its bloody starting. I too wanna see other match ups, captains vs espada, Ichigo vs ulquaria. I think there are going to be so many turns and twists to come, there have still others to enter the battle. Have patients guys and kubo will deliver these are just appetizers and some of us want to see these match ups as well. Kubo has to please every one, not just the inpatient few. Last chapter I enjoyed the introductions between fraccion and shinigami especially cool horn and arisigawa, that was one funny part, who wouldn't like to see 2 girls fight :D.

hyn_pride93
July 26, 2008, 04:30 AM
Right on gold349!! Koodos to you. I too think that Hisagi and Ikkaku are captain level. The only reason why I think that is because of the winter war that's approaching. The fantastic four have surely been training a whole lot a that they can have some fun in their battles to come. And what do we have here? We have our favorites here to fight in this very exciting battle between good vs evil!!!! I am so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

basterd
July 26, 2008, 05:41 AM
You guys saying that Stark is in the fire cage, that's just wrong. He's outside, and that's really easy to figure out.
Several pages that confirmes it:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/15/
- Aizen talkes as if he, Gin & Tousen isn't needed, cause Top3 Espada is there outside the fire cage.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/12/
- You see the fire cage in behind of Baragan, and he talks to Stark as he is beside him like in this pic:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315/14/
- Aizen is behind/above Baragan and Stark is to Baragan's left side.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/13/
- How can everyone look at him if as he isn't outside the fire cage?

That's just how it's is calculated in my head, pretty obvious.

Raysen_ht
July 26, 2008, 07:29 AM
Why is everyone just standing there waiting for the introduction of the fractions?? It doesnt make sence... nobody is even a little tense!! Why would the capitains allow the fractions to get near the pillars? the could have destroyed them in one hit imo!!

And stark is DEFENETLY OUT of the fire cage/prision thing

gigantor21
July 26, 2008, 09:52 AM
Hmm.

I don't love the way the chapters have been set up since the Gaiden ended. I've complained about how it all felt like a fighting game before the Gaiden; now, it's starting to look like a tactical RPG, as character placement has been eclipsing everything else. And we aren't even done yet.

This chapter bored me because it didn't advance the story; the better Fracciones were sent to the pillars, and that's it. That's all that happened. And Kubo tried yet again to hide behind the cast, hoping we'd enjoy the interaction so much that we'd forgive the lack of content. I'd have much rather cut back to Ichigo-Ulq, or the Captains in HM, or the Vaizards, or even SS...this is the last end I'd want to focus on, and Kubo devoted a whole chapter to it.

Hopefully, we'll see the other fronts next week.

That said though, while Ikkaku's Fraccion looks boring as hell (even more than Edorad), I'm interested in what Findor meant by saying he'll "fight at a Lieutenant's level". That, and his asking for Shuuhei's seat right away, suggests not only that he might be captain level but that he's fought Shinigami in the past. I'm also glad that we'll finally get to see Shuuhei's release. The part with Yumichika was hilarious--Chocolate Coolhorn looks like some unholy cross between Mila Rose and Doldooni--and the more I see of Abirama's design, the more awesome he looks.

So the content itself wasn't bad. It's the fact that Kubo spent the whole chapter on the pillars that I hated. At this rate, we're going to need another 300 chapters unless he picks up the pace.

Caligumenthe
July 26, 2008, 02:24 PM
I actually enjoyed Abirama's design as well. I particularly like his and Findor's 'knight-style' masks, so to speak.

Ikkaku seems to be at captain-class level as it is, having achieved Bankai. And if I remember correctly, he turned down offers to take division captain seats (regardless if the situation was due to a lack of proper shinigami forces). The shinigami-Fraccion match-ups were good, in my opinion, but kind of pointless...

hyn_pride93
July 26, 2008, 08:54 PM
Actually, I don't think that the match ups were pointless at all.

The only stupid and really waste of pointless material was the hollows/soul that were in FKT. That just threw everything off.

patedecarne
July 26, 2008, 10:10 PM
Hmm.

I don't love the way the chapters have been set up since the Gaiden ended. I've complained about how it all felt like a fighting game before the Gaiden; now, it's starting to look like a tactical RPG, as character placement has been eclipsing everything else. And we aren't even done yet.


So the content itself wasn't bad. It's the fact that Kubo spent the whole chapter on the pillars that I hated. At this rate, we're going to need another 300 chapters unless he picks up the pace.

Yes, 53 characters are perfect for the new King of Fighters, this time starring Bleach:
some teams:

Big Boss Team: Aizen, Tousen, Gin
Boobs Team: Orihime, Halibel, Matsumoto
Useless Characters Team: Renji, Chado, Yammi
Maniac Team: Noitora, Kenpachi, Mayuri
Emo Team: Ulquiorra, Yumichika, Kira
and the list goes on...


Serious, like you said, Kubo will need so many chapters to set everything: if we consider that each battle will take about 4, 5 chapters, only the vice captains battle will hold about 20 chapters, and only after that we can move to the big fishes fight;

Truth to be told, I don't know how Kubo will handle with this complicated situation: like gig said, the tactical RPG is being settled, but with so many characters...

mr.danly
July 26, 2008, 10:33 PM
I agree with hyn pride; the hollows and the girl really didn't make sense. Aren't all the humans supposed to be in the real k-town? But people are bashing this arc a BIT too much. People are getting impatient... Kubo is only human; not even he can give us amazing incredibly enlightening chapters all the time. For there to be a good fight, there has to be a few slow chapters setting it up. For many long intense fights that will blow us off our computers, there will probably be many slow chapters. XD I'm considering taking a bleach holiday for a month then coming back and reading it all at once... Then again, I probably won't last more than a few days...

Onomatopoeia
July 27, 2008, 12:35 AM
How in the world will Kubo be able to justify a Fraccion vs Fantastic Four fight that spans 20 chapters heck even 5 would be to much? I mean it doesn't make sense I wouldn't wait around for Aizen & co. to get out of the Yamamato's barrier. The SS group has to guess that Aizen won't wait around which means they have an obvious time limit here. So... why are they just waiting around? When you have an advantage thats temporary USE IT for as long as you can. Don't wait around for it to end. Theirs no way Kubo can justify this lack of fighting in my eye's.

While I'm not saying that I minded the Fraccions and Fantastic 4 matchups I just don't see how it makes sene.

gigantor21
July 27, 2008, 12:45 AM
Danly - Ah...but it's not that he can't do it every week that's the problem.

It's how the story, as pat pointed out, has to be written under the mass of dozens of different characters, who can be in and out of the fighting at any time. This battle will take place in all 3 realms and might involve ALL the characters who can still fight; I think it's fair for people to be nervous when there are so many ways to screw things up. Remember what Chad said--"things that are more complex are often more fragile." Nowhere is that more apparent when it comes to storytelling.

My fear is that the soulless "fight generator" format recently may be part of a larger trend.

anonym9191
July 27, 2008, 04:40 AM
Regarding the girl: I am not completely sure anymore BUT wasn't that in ANOTHER town? To show the impacts of their arriving are that far?

Regarding the point that captains aren't fighting I would say: Ever heard of trying to find out the opponents strength/weak points before busting in? Or about being "shy" to react before such a fight? After all if you react and your first move is wrong it could be the end...

And furthermore: He could never have introduced the pillars, the pillar fights and the captain fights in just one chapter.

jocouslie
July 27, 2008, 05:09 AM
prediction: next chapters would focus more on the vcs fighting the fraccion. hisagi's bankai and kira's are the ones i wanted to see. by the way kubo just stated that there will be a gaiden for isshin and definitely he's a shinigami.

Raysen_ht
July 27, 2008, 10:21 AM
Kubo stated that (a Isshin gaiden)!?!?!? REALLY!!!!!!!! that would be awesome!!
But i cant see it happening anytime soon... there is, as people have pointed out, simply too much going on at the moment... and there are even more caracters who didnt show up at the fights yet (e.g. the HM capitains, the Vaizards, and (why not) a couple of Vasto lords (if the remaining espadas arent those kinds of hollow, i mean)

winterwyrm
July 27, 2008, 10:41 AM
I agree with hyn pride; the hollows and the girl really didn't make sense. Aren't all the humans supposed to be in the real k-town? But people are bashing this arc a BIT too much. People are getting impatient... Kubo is only human; not even he can give us amazing incredibly enlightening chapters all the time. For there to be a good fight, there has to be a few slow chapters setting it up. For many long intense fights that will blow us off our computers, there will probably be many slow chapters. XD I'm considering taking a bleach holiday for a month then coming back and reading it all at once... Then again, I probably won't last more than a few days...


That was actually a soul (look at her midsection, she has a broken chain there) and was actually some distance from FKT.

Onomatopoeia
July 27, 2008, 11:59 AM
Why are people so sure Hisagi has a Bankai :blink? Its more likely that Rangiku and Yumichaka because they actually got combat experience and were shown training for it. Besides Hisagi got owned Yumi-san:tem

hyn_pride93
July 27, 2008, 03:04 PM
My money is on Yumichika being the first to take down his enemy. I really hope he does have a bankai along with Rangiku. The two of them are my top fave lieutenants and I expect a lot from them.

gold349
July 27, 2008, 03:11 PM
PREDICTION: (maybe a couple of chapters but this is how I think it will start off) Kubo has set the fights for the pillars, the whole fights will not be shown it will move away to Ichigo and Ulquaria, we will see a little bit of this fight, kubo will switch back to the pillars as it goes into the final stages and will show the fantastic four beating bragans fraccion maybe we will witness a couple of bankai's. This is when I think someone other than Baragan will assume charge and it will cut back to Ichigo and ulquari fight until the conclusion.

Tsukisama
July 27, 2008, 05:17 PM
prediction: next chapters would focus more on the vcs fighting the fraccion. hisagi's bankai and kira's are the ones i wanted to see. by the way kubo just stated that there will be a gaiden for isshin and definitely he's a shinigami.

I am really going to have to ask for you to provide a link for this. It's not that I don't believe you (in fact, since Kubo is at Comic Con, it is entirely possible that he has made such a statement), but in order to keep unfounded rumors from running rampant on MH, you should only post such statements if you have some sort of link to back it up.

We have a Kubo interview thread in Biblioteca (here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27618)). Please post the link to the interview and a brief summary on what the link contains (as not everyone will just click the link without a summary) there.

Onomatopoeia
July 27, 2008, 10:58 PM
Thanks for putting the thread I was supposed to put the Kubo Tite interview in otherwise it would be really embaresing if I made a thread for it :sweatbunny

jocouslie
July 28, 2008, 01:07 AM
thanks onomatopoeia for sort of backing up my post here yesterday. thanks tsukisama for the thread ^_^ anyway, moving on, i think yumichika already have a bankai. i think its the one he used to take down hisagi, one with the thing crawling on his skin. i think that's his bankai, unfortunately that time, we haven't seen it's full form. hopefully this time we'll see all of it. i do hope that some captain fights would make some panels of the next chapter. actually i think it's overloading...

Grimjaww
July 28, 2008, 01:55 AM
WEll Kubo does have to pump up by having the VC's fight first. They have to set the mood and bar, than when the espada vs. captains fights start, Kubo will really dazzle us with some crazy bankais!

Yans86
July 28, 2008, 06:28 AM
thanks onomatopoeia for sort of backing up my post here yesterday. thanks tsukisama for the thread ^_^ anyway, moving on, i think yumichika already have a bankai. i think its the one he used to take down hisagi, one with the thing crawling on his skin. i think that's his bankai, unfortunately that time, we haven't seen it's full form. hopefully this time we'll see all of it. i do hope that some captain fights would make some panels of the next chapter. actually i think it's overloading...

Actually it was his shikai....

Hockeychaoz
July 28, 2008, 08:28 AM
I think thats my favorite part about these upcoming fights.
They demand to be Bankai level fights. We've seen every captains ShiKai, but Im really curious about the secondary releases.

I also really hope we see a full Kira fight. It's going to be a really "shikamaru" type battle I'd assume. Plus his zanpaktou is one of the coolest ones in the series IMO.

Yay for Kira!

Also, so far, the bankai we've seen all basically augment the shikai:
Hitsugaya's shikai is a dragon. Bankai, better dragon.
Byakuya's shikai is 1000 blades. Bankai is a million.
Komamaru's shikai is a big punch. Bankai is a huge armor guy.

So how the hell is Soi-fon gonna work? Lol.
Shikai is 2 hits your dead. Bankai is 1 hit?


I'm pretty sure how this is gonna play out is the captains will beat the Espada, leaving them worn out. Aizen and Co. will escape, and the Vizards will show up to handle them.

Or my original theory will happen :O:O!
Captains beat the Espada, and looking over their corpses see numbers 8,9,10. Aizen recruited 7 new vastrolordes to replenish the Espada.

Also, I'm almost positive a Yammi-Chad fight is coming.

Ohh... so much to happen :) Im over stimulated.

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 09:38 AM
Or my original theory will happen :O:O!
Captains beat the Espada, and looking over their corpses see numbers 8,9,10. Aizen recruited 7 new vastrolordes to replenish the Espada.

Also, I'm almost positive a Yammi-Chad fight is coming.

Ohh... so much to happen :) Im over stimulated.

I really like this theory of yours... but i have to say that i think this last 3 are all vasto lords imo...


Yes so much to happen, and yet, in the last 3 chapters, nothing has...

llamapie
July 28, 2008, 01:13 PM
WEll Kubo does have to pump up by having the VC's fight first. They have to set the mood and bar, than when the espada vs. captains fights start, Kubo will really dazzle us with some crazy bankais!

You mean the unexplained giant white puffs of stuff that occur whenever a sword is used in this arc?

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 01:55 PM
Also, so far, the bankai we've seen all basically augment the shikai:
Hitsugaya's shikai is a dragon. Bankai, better dragon.
Byakuya's shikai is 1000 blades. Bankai is a million.
Komamaru's shikai is a big punch. Bankai is a huge armor guy.

So how the hell is Soi-fon gonna work? Lol.
Shikai is 2 hits your dead. Bankai is 1 hit?



And What Tousen's, Renji's, Ichigo's,Mayuri's, and Ikakku's Bankai's don't exist? Bankai doesn't have to be related to the Shikai in any way we've seen that over and over again.

hyn_pride93
July 28, 2008, 02:09 PM
The whole bankai thing is just a more powerful version of their shikai. In other words, the bankai can be related to their shikai or they can be another power of their zanpaktou.

A bankai doesn't need to always be related to the shikai, and besides, this isn't even the right thread for this topic. Go to the biblioteca for this topic. Make predictions for the next chapter or discuss this current chapter here.

Hockeychaoz
July 28, 2008, 02:39 PM
And What Tousen's, Renji's, Ichigo's,Mayuri's, and Ikakku's Bankai's don't exist? Bankai doesn't have to be related to the Shikai in any way we've seen that over and over again.

:D Thanks for bringing them up!

First off, let me clear this up. Ichigo is the exception, rather than the rule. So don't even try to use him. Or did you forget that his bankai itself doesn't follow the rules of huge?

Ikakku's shikai is TRI-link staff. His bankai is 3 weapons.
Renji's shikai is a whip sword. His bankai is a bigger whip sword with teeth.
Mayuri's shikai paralyzes you. Bankai kills you.

Tousen's is messed up I suppose. But then again, he even has 2 shikai abilities.


so, I guess, no, they don't have to be related, but they generally are.


[edit] and thinking about it for a minute, Ichigo's getsuga tenshou gets stronger. So even he follows guidelines.
[hr]

The whole bankai thing is just a more powerful version of their shikai. In other words, the bankai can be related to their shikai or they can be another power of their zanpaktou.

A bankai doesn't need to always be related to the shikai, and besides, this isn't even the right thread for this topic. Go to the biblioteca for this topic. Make predictions for the next chapter or discuss this current chapter here.

This is a prediction thread bud. :) And this stemmed from my main predictions about Soifon's bankai and a huge bankai fight ensuing.
so, it kinda is the right place :D

hyn_pride93
July 28, 2008, 03:32 PM
This is a prediction thread bud. :) And this stemmed from my main predictions about Soifon's bankai and a huge bankai fight ensuing.
so, it kinda is the right place :D


Well, when you put it like that, I guess you're right. I apologize for that. I hope I wasn't sounding so stuffy.

hajialibaig
July 28, 2008, 03:35 PM
WHAT??? Did you really just say that ichigo has no hand to hand combat skills? He was on an equal level with tatsuki, who is like the karate world champion or whatever, until very recently. He, without using his sword, disabled and defeated 3 vice captains using their shikais at once with his bare hands.

Throwing random brute force punches is no hand-to-hand combat skill (and yea, against the weakest vice-captains in SS yet)...what I am talking about is REAL hand-to-hand combat skills, like Soifon's.. and yea, Tatsuki = karate world champion??????? what manga u readin foo LOL





He has excellent swordsmanship. He was able to figure out and effectively counter renji's shikai after a few minutes. No really... Renji saw through his moves and gave him quiet a hit...

I'll say it again, only reason Ichigo wins is because of his brute strength.. he got no tactics, no strategies, no brains :D (might be exagerated a bit)

Frostal
July 28, 2008, 03:55 PM
Throwing random brute force punches is no hand-to-hand combat skill (and yea, against the weakest vice-captains in SS yet)...what I am talking about is REAL hand-to-hand combat skills, like Soifon's.. and yea, Tatsuki = karate world champion??????? what manga u readin foo LOL




No really... Renji saw through his moves and gave him quiet a hit...

I'll say it again, only reason Ichigo wins is because of his brute strength.. he got no tactics, no strategies, no brains :D (might be exagerated a bit)

If I may, I don't post very often but I feel the need to chip in now. There's a limit to what you can expect from someone who is very new to the 'shinigami' thing. He only recently awakened his powers and thus hasn't that much combat experience. Most of his battles he has had to use brute force because else he would get outclasses by experience. Are you seriously comparing, for example, Byakuya to Ichigo? The age and combat experience is vastly different. Most shinigame have had years, decades if not centuries of training.

All I'm trying to point out is that it's a bit over the top(as you stated) to call him an idiot.

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 04:18 PM
Ikakku's shikai is TRI-link staff. His bankai is 3 weapons.
Renji's shikai is a whip sword. His bankai is a bigger whip sword with teeth.
Mayuri's shikai paralyzes you. Bankai kills you.


Ikakku's Shika is a spear with three parts two of them being wood the final one has. His Bankai is three giant axe things which also has a guage that increases with time. So ignoring all that lets take the one thing each of them have in common. The word 3... yeah they're totally similair
Renji is a giant dragon-snake that can split apart that can fire a blast, it also looks nothing like a sword, it is somewhat whip like though the way to attack with it is far different. The only thing he has in common with his Shikai in that is that they're both whip like...
By your logic if a Bankai kills someone then it's Mayuri's? So ignoring the fact that Mayuri's bankai also summons a giant monster that moves Ichigo's Bankai's is exactly like it...
As for Ichigo his Bankai makes him go faster not increase his Shikai's power.

You ingore everything else that a Bankai is and then find one little thing that both the Shikai and Bankai have. Using that logic I can say that Hitsugaya and Gin are simaliar because they both have very pale hair -_-

OhDearMoshe
July 28, 2008, 04:47 PM
Ikakku's Shika is a spear with three parts two of them being wood the final one has. His Bankai is three giant axe things which also has a guage that increases with time. So ignoring all that lets take the one thing each of them have in common. The word 3... yeah they're totally similair
Renji is a giant dragon-snake that can split apart that can fire a blast, it also looks nothing like a sword, it is somewhat whip like though the way to attack with it is far different. The only thing he has in common with his Shikai in that is that they're both whip like...
By your logic if a Bankai kills someone then it's Mayuri's? So ignoring the fact that Mayuri's bankai also summons a giant monster that moves Ichigo's Bankai's is exactly like it...
As for Ichigo his Bankai makes him go faster not increase his Shikai's power.

You ingore everything else that a Bankai is and then find one little thing that both the Shikai and Bankai have. Using that logic I can say that Hitsugaya and Gin are simaliar because they both have very pale hair -_-

Then denial used in that is......quite frankly unbelievable. If I had an award for blatant denial in the face of actual evidence it would go to you. Seriously.

He's not saying that if a Bankai kills someone its Mayuri's more that it has a similar but more potent effect that the Shikai form.

Caligumenthe
July 28, 2008, 06:04 PM
I don't think Bankai are related to shikai forms, necessarily. They suit character personalities excellently, but are not always greater forms of their respective shikai.

I'd like to see Yumichika's Bankai, though.
I hope to god it does not suck the energy out of Coolhorn...

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 06:15 PM
I just had an idea... maybe next chapter we will see Youruichi and that other guy who wears green (unbelieveble... i simply cant remember his name) talking with the vaizards at real Karakura...

hyn_pride93
July 28, 2008, 06:23 PM
Although Yumichika's bankai is something that many of us wanna see, we still have to witness and learn what his shikai can do. All we know right now is that it has like, idk, 7 blades, it's a kidou based zanpaktou, and it glows green, oh and that it took down Hisagi the fastest. His bankai would be even more amazing I bet.

But as for bankais in general. Some of them match with their shikais. Some of them still have the same abilities as the shikai but either increase the power of them or stay the same while another skill or technique is developed into something greater.

The zanpaktous that are simillar that we know of is Renji's, Ikkaku's, Byakuya's, most likely Tousen and Gin (with the blades/senses and snake), and Hitsugaya.

But still, if we look at Mayuri's zanpaktou and take what we know from it, and try to apply it to Soi Fon then we might have something. Mayuri's shikai paralyzes you when stabbed by it or when inhaling the gas. His bankai kills you slowly when you inhale the gas and well, hello it's a giant monster. It'll kill you once it stabs you or jumps on you lol. It's huge!!

Soi Fon's shikai will leaves a mark/target on you when cut by it. When the target/mark on your body is struck again, you die. But don't forget that her zanpaktou becomes something like a glove on the hand that holds her zanpaktou with, and then the blade becomes something like a dagger on her finger. So her bankai will probably become bigger or probably give her a boost in power. Something like Ichigo's

C4animax
July 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
lol, yeah more chapters waste, they'll just gave time to be amazed about the reiatsu of the ennemy...


I don't think Bankai are related to shikai forms, necessarily. They suit character personalities excellently, but are not always greater forms of their respective shikai.

I'd like to see Yumichika's Bankai, though.
I hope to god it does not suck the energy out of Coolhorn...

Same though on bankai thing.

I though his sikai could already do that?...

hyn_pride93
July 28, 2008, 06:24 PM
I just had an idea... maybe next chapter we will see Youruichi and that other guy who wears green (unbelieveble... i simply cant remember his name) talking with the vaizards at real Karakura...

OMFG!!! Hello, how could you forget his name!? Urahara. LOL

BigJDelux
July 28, 2008, 06:42 PM
I don't think Bankai are related to shikai forms, necessarily. They suit character personalities excellently, but are not always greater forms of their respective shikai.

I'd like to see Yumichika's Bankai, though.
I hope to god it does not suck the energy out of Coolhorn...

I know I read somewhere that Yumichika has not achieved bankai with his zanpaktou due to the fact that it is as vain as he is. . . I could be full of crap but I remember hearing that.

I hope they stick with Hisagi's fight first, if any of the VCs who haven't shown a banakai have it, I would think it was him.

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 07:11 PM
Then denial used in that is......quite frankly unbelievable. If I had an award for blatant denial in the face of actual evidence it would go to you. Seriously.

He's not saying that if a Bankai kills someone its Mayuri's more that it has a similar but more potent effect that the Shikai form.


I actually didn't mean to post that because it seemed...off(and mean) ...but whatever whats done is done. But what I'm trying to say is that the Bankai doesn't add on to the Shikai it simply takes one of the concepts and then changes everything else(like Mayuri's). Yes you can find similarities in both the Bankai and Shikai but only if you really look for them and even then thats only one concept the Bankai's add a lot more to the Shikai and that one little part isn't even very important compared to the rest. The four people I mentioned don't augment the power of the Shikai in fact for the most part the Shikai isn't even their except in a small way.

Fallen.
July 28, 2008, 08:27 PM
I know I read somewhere that Yumichika has not achieved bankai with his zanpaktou due to the fact that it is as vain as he is. . . I could be full of crap but I remember hearing that.

I hope they stick with Hisagi's fight first, if any of the VCs who haven't shown a banakai have it, I would think it was him.


Here is a little image although you can't see it that good,it's his shinkai,kinda reminds me of peacock feathers >.> , not sure if he has a bankai though,although he wouldn't need it with his shinkai powers lol.
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/605/yumichikazanpaktou25hr.png

Caligumenthe
July 28, 2008, 09:13 PM
I know I read somewhere that Yumichika has not achieved bankai with his zanpaktou due to the fact that it is as vain as he is. . . I could be full of crap but I remember hearing that.

I hope they stick with Hisagi's fight first, if any of the VCs who haven't shown a banakai have it, I would think it was him.

I remember hearing that about Yumichika as well. If it still applies, it's kind of a (comically) depressing reason for a character who many people want to see fighting NOT to have Bankai.

Also, I think a lot of people missed this, instead focusing on the peacock shikai he unleashes against Hisagi.
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/177/yumichikashikai17by.png

BigJDelux
July 28, 2008, 09:17 PM
Here is a little image although you can't see it that good,it's his shinkai,kinda reminds me of peacock feathers >.> , not sure if he has a bankai though,although he wouldn't need it with his shinkai powers lol.
http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/605/yumichikazanpaktou25hr.png

That is definitely a step over his shikai. . . so I would say that I was misinformed. I think Barragan is gonna eat it within the next 3 chapters, especially after the VCs rape his fraccion. This is probably one of those "respect your elders" things where Stark and Halibel let him take command because they know he will easily be defeated by the remaining Gotei 13 in Fake KK town.

And, I know EASILY is a bad word to use, but I say it in reference to the difficulty Stark and Halibel will pose relative to Barragan.

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 09:31 PM
Whats with the hate towards Barragan? I like his arrogance at least he has character the other two are just the stereo typical bishounen looking Shonen bad guys. I could confuse their personality with about half a dozen other characters. Barragan interests me because their could be actual reasons for his character and his past could be quite interesting. Halibel and Stark on the other hand... well we might get some good poses with Halibel looking mysterious and Stark sleeping as their flashbacks.

And besides its unlikely that Halibel and Stark are just going to wait around when 6 captains just start attacking him. They'd be idiots, Barragan would be the genius of the group.

Caligumenthe
July 28, 2008, 10:10 PM
People don't like Barragan because he lacks the potential bad-assness of Halibel, and the definite bad-assness of Stark (lazy and comical as a character).

Barragan has the greatest possibility of having chapters dedicated solely to his past -his Fraccion worship him indefinitely, which is unusual -Arrancar like Tesla were respectful, obeying, but certainly not worshipers.

I think it would be pretty anti-climatic to pull out chapters about Barragan's past during the oncoming battle. Especially since we have two badass Espada who think that the third is an idiot (hasty, disrespectful...)

MadWalker
July 28, 2008, 11:43 PM
i wonder those vizards will help who ~w~

Andonan
July 29, 2008, 02:35 AM
Do they'll help whoever Kisuke helps.....

Yannnnnnnnn
July 29, 2008, 04:09 AM
i wonder those vizards will help who ~w~

they will help no one
they will have their own fight !! 1st they want to take revenge of aizen, it his fault if they are vizard (even if they are now more powerfull due to that transformation) and he betray them
but maybe they will atack SS after that (which I doubt,...)
it will be the same than with Ichigo, at 1st yamamoto wanted to capture/kill ichigo and then he said that he is now an ally
for the vizard: they have been banish and now they'll figh espada/help SS, so they will be recognize as new "friend" (ally at least)

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 07:07 AM
I have a crazy theory that Urahara is an even worst vilain than Aizen... A bigger traitor, that got his idea from Aizen, and now, with the help of the Vaizards, he will take over Aizen´s place and attack the "King" whomever he is

I know its insane, and i dont have facts to back it up... but THAT would be a plot twist! I know that its too similar to Aizen betrail, but NONE is expecting something like that...

Starky-08
July 29, 2008, 07:51 AM
Urahara's too cool to betray

Eye of the tiger
July 29, 2008, 08:03 AM
I have a crazy theory that Urahara is an even worst vilain than Aizen... A bigger traitor, that got his idea from Aizen, and now, with the help of the Vaizards, he will take over Aizen´s place and attack the "King" whomever he is

I know its insane, and i dont have facts to back it up... but THAT would be a plot twist! I know that its too similar to Aizen betrail, but NONE is expecting something like that...

Actually, I agree and had a theory a long time ago. But I think Urahara's the biggest player in Bleach. He may not be a villain, but I feel he's the one pulling all strings, even playing Aizen. He seems to know almost everything about everything, even sitting in the human world. Not to mention that he does have a bone to pick with the SS heirarchy. I wouldn't be surprised if Urahara's the one orchestrating the big change in the 3 worlds to somehow change things in the King's dimension... Ah well, anyway I can get carried far....far...away..

The Adamant Dragon
July 29, 2008, 12:10 PM
@ Raysen-san and @Eye of the tiger

Nah, you ain't getting carried away... you two might be right in the long run. 'Cause I find it weird... Aizen's Betrayal could've been made by someone smarter in the shadows. I Find it weird that in the development of each steps of his betrayal, it involves Urahara's works. He always mention him ( I Wonder how he took access to Urahara's work archieve in the first place... - A Simple Vice-Captain - ) He started his crazy plan right-after Urahara became a captain. I Think its more than Aizen betraying SS... It got to be, because right now the manga is too predictable, Its like... We all know what's gonna happen but we're just waitting to see it drawned by Kubo. Bahh.. who knows, maybe we eat too much junk food :s

Kubo got to find a way to make this manga entertaining again -- beside the fights --... just like the old days. The story-telling gotta Improve. Well, just My humble opinion. But seriously, there's gotta be something more... I Hope so.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 02:38 PM
And so the Urahara conspiracy theorists finally come out of the dark -_- From the very first day we saw him everyone has thought that he is smarter then Aizen and has known every move Aizen would do, guess what he doesn't. He was surprised to see Aizen with the Vizairds. Aizen outhought him at the hearing, Aizen was a move ahead of Urahara their by convincing everybody it was Urahara that was evil. I would have hoped with the Gaiden people would finally start realizing that Urahara isn't an evil guy and he's defintely not a move ahead of Aizen.

hajialibaig
July 29, 2008, 04:01 PM
I think this upcoming chapter will focus on the battles in HM (Rukia & gang vs. Execution guards), and end with Ulquiorra still in the process of pulling out his sword*

*I think Ulquiorra is gonna use his sword to fight ichigo (seeing how he always uses his hands), i.e. not doing a release as many think here

nicobarten
July 29, 2008, 04:30 PM
And so the Urahara conspiracy theorists finally come out of the dark -_- From the very first day we saw him everyone has thought that he is smarter then Aizen and has known every move Aizen would do, guess what he doesn't. He was surprised to see Aizen with the Vizairds. Aizen outhought him at the hearing, Aizen was a move ahead of Urahara their by convincing everybody it was Urahara that was evil. I would have hoped with the Gaiden people would finally start realizing that Urahara isn't an evil guy and he's defintely not a move ahead of Aizen.

Finally someone with brains.

Anyway, i wonder which teams of captains will fight the espada. Although i'm sure Yamato must be very strong, it's not sure he's stronger than the nr. 1 espada. I mean, Ichigo bankai + mask could barely win from Grimmjow, and we've seen so many times how strong ulquiorra is... and he's just nr 4! So nr. 1 is a guy with a lot of power for sure, and i wonder if even yamato is strong enough for that.

Eye of the tiger
July 29, 2008, 05:08 PM
Well I ain't saying that Urahara's a bad guy necessarily.. I am saying that he's the one with the master plan and he's playing everyone.. even Aizen. After SS arc, he says sorry to Ichigo, Ichigo says "you must've had a reason" and leaves it at that. But it indicates that Urahara knew beforehand.. plus its very suspicious why he let Rukia go back to SS and why he did not warn her about the possible daanger from Aizen when he know it.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 05:17 PM
Rukia didn't have to much of a choice in the matter...

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 05:29 PM
But Urahara had a choice... he could have protected her from SS (Renji wouldt stand a chance against him, and im preety sure Byakuya would be defeated also...)
He could have hiden her better after saving her and that would be it... besides, Why didnt he tell Ichigo about Aizen, before he left to SS?

gian
July 29, 2008, 08:44 PM
I don't know why it's so hard to believe that Urahara has his own agenda. He has a bone to pick with SS and he's going to get his revenge one way or another. Perhaps he was fooled by Aizen once but that doesn't mean Aizen is always going to be smarter than him, especially now that Urahara knows what the bastard is capable of.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 08:50 PM
Better question. Would it have changed anything? Lets say Urahara had fought, lets say Urahara did tell Ichigo about Aizen, would it have changed anything?

If Urahara had fought against Byakuya(its questionable weather he would have beaten him,again overestimation of Urahara everybody puts him way above all the other captains its annoying especially with Renji help) then SS would just send more Captains and kill or execute Urahara. Heck if he had fought he might have died against Byakuya making Aizen the complete victor.

So what if he told Ichigo, who are you going to believe a captain thats proven himself in battle a hundred times or a Ryokou like Ichigo?

The fact that Urahara didn't fight or tell Ichigo shows that Urahara knew he was beaten again by Aizen who got Byakuya and Renji to go before Rukia's gigai could drain her completely of her Reitsu. Urahara tried to destroy the Hogyoku forever. Aizen saw it countered and beat Urahara again.

gian
July 29, 2008, 09:07 PM
Better question. Would it have changed anything? Lets say Urahara had fought, lets say Urahara did tell Ichigo about Aizen, would it have changed anything?

If Urahara had fought against Byakuya(its questionable weather he would have beaten him,again overestimation of Urahara everybody puts him way above all the other captains its annoying especially with Renji help) then SS would just send more Captains and kill or execute Urahara. Heck if he had fought he might have died against Byakuya making Aizen the complete victor.

So what if he told Ichigo, who are you going to believe a captain thats proven himself in battle a hundred times or a Ryokou like Ichigo?

The fact that Urahara didn't fight or tell Ichigo shows that Urahara knew he was beaten again by Aizen who got Byakuya and Renji to go before Rukia's gigai could drain her completely of her Reitsu. Urahara tried to destroy the Hogyoku forever. Aizen saw it countered and beat Urahara again.

"Oh he didn't fight cause he knew he was beaten again!"

The reason why he didn't tell Ichigo was because he didn't have reason to. Ichigo going around and telling everyone that Aizen was bad would only allow the villain to immediately counteract what was going on. By telling Ichigo, Urahara would have only limited the already few advantages the good guys had.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 09:14 PM
Your right that part was worded very badly and could be wrong but my message was still right.

What I'm saying in the bolded part is that Urahara tried to suck all Shinigami powers out of Rukia thats his move. Aizen counters by sending Byakuya and Renji. Urahara lost that round.

chmilyxj
July 29, 2008, 09:22 PM
Soifon's lieutenant is so annoying. We could get story further without his dry joke.

good job!

THETRUTH.com
July 29, 2008, 09:37 PM
And so the Urahara conspiracy theorists finally come out of the dark -_- From the very first day we saw him everyone has thought that he is smarter then Aizen and has known every move Aizen would do, guess what he doesn't. He was surprised to see Aizen with the Vizairds. Aizen outhought him at the hearing, Aizen was a move ahead of Urahara their by convincing everybody it was Urahara that was evil. I would have hoped with the Gaiden people would finally start realizing that Urahara isn't an evil guy and he's defintely not a move ahead of Aizen.


Well I don't think Urahara is a traitor. But I do think he is smarter than Aizen. It is always harder to fight an unknown opponent than a known one. Urahara was going about his business creating the R&D institution, being captain of his division, and creating things everyday. What was Aizen doing? Scheming in the shadows only having to worry about his VC duties which were limited because Shinji didn't trust him. Aizen has the advantage in this situation. Also with Aizen's unique abilities he doesn't really have to be very smart. As a matter of fact his ability grants him a larger margin for error. Aizen at the hearing had an alibi which strengthened his position, mean while Kisuke was running around in a cloak that masked his reiatsu that makes him look like a criminal. Urahara is most likely smarter than Aizen. He created the HK. He experimented with hollowification. Aizen said himself he didn't make any breakthroughs. So Urahara since the event knowing who he is matched up against, has made a misstep with Orihime but only in method Aizen was seeking her for one reason or the other. Urahara saw that weeks before Aizen made his move.


But Urahara had a choice... he could have protected her from SS (Renji wouldt stand a chance against him, and im preety sure Byakuya would be defeated also...)
He could have hiden her better after saving her and that would be it... besides, Why didnt he tell Ichigo about Aizen, before he left to SS?


Some things in the plot can't be explained. But if they had happened differently then other thing couldn't have happened. Urahara doesn't trust many people. Maybe that will change after this current fight.

Seriph2
July 29, 2008, 09:41 PM
I also think uruhara might be the real mastermind behind this entire plot. Right now aizen is way too calm for his predicament, now we can assume this is just because everyone is already trapped in his illusion and this might be the case but this doesnt explain why they willingly decided to go to the fake KK town to begin with. It COULD very well be a well thought out feint where uruhara and the vaizard mobilize an attack on soul society seeing as it is basically defenseless at the moment.

This is where we would then see ichigo and crew + the trapped captains defending soul society while the battle in fake KK goes on. Ichigo and company would of course be near the brink of death/defeat when we get the introduction of ichigo and ishidas dad "to the rescue".

I really think that whatever mayuri discovered in that lab will implicate uruhara somehow and is the reason why ichigo and everyone will hurry back to soul society ASAP.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 09:51 PM
@Thetruth.com

You make a good point about it always being harder to fight an invisible enemy. But the Hogyoku was only discovered by Urahara on accident not on purpose so he might have been just as stuck as Aizen. Also didn't Aizen and Urahara both figure hollowfication out(with Aizen using the Vaizards).

And I don't quite agree with Urahara being smarter then Aizen. Urahara tried to destroy the HK by destroying Rukia's power but Byakuya and Renji both showed up before it could succeed. I think its suspicious that a Captain and Lietuant both show up to capture an unranked Shinigami who also happen to be in a different squad and Byakuya's squad has nothing to do with hunting down traitors(2nd squad). So the HK wasn't destroyed because of this and I have a gut feeling that Aizen was behind that. So then didn't Aizen win that round?

Also Seriph Aizen didn't know about Fake KK and the people in HM can't escape remember unless a we get some hollow help.

Seriph2
July 29, 2008, 10:11 PM
I believe aizen knew and i remember reading something about his knowledge of being lured to a "fake" KK, as far as not being able to leave HM thats where grimmjow could very well come in to play. Espada and arrancar are able to basically port around and grimmjow even though he was/is an enemy he does sort of owe them for saving his ass. Now this is all definitely reaching and just because they "saved" grimmjow doesnt mean he has to do them any kind of favor but its not "impossible" either or THAT far fetched.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 10:22 PM
Aizen doesn't take chances he probablly made sure that they can't get out some how. Remember he sealed off all the portals just with a command. He's probablly made it inaccesible to get out of their.

llamapie
July 29, 2008, 10:44 PM
This will be a pretty bad arc if someone doesn't die. No one dies in this manga. Kill off soifon's vice captain and we'll all be happy.

THETRUTH.com
July 29, 2008, 11:57 PM
@Onomatopoeia

Aizen is able to manipulate. His zanpaktou's ability make much of this possible. Aizen hasn't actually created anything he said as much himself. Being able to manipulate people by creating illusion doesn't even make him as smart as Urahara. Urahara recognized exactly what Aizen was doing just with one look at his victims. The difference between Aizen and Urahara is one guy is a genius and the other guy can get people to believe he is one. Urahara is the creator ofGikongan (Soul Candy), Gigai (False Bodies), and the 3-day bankai method.


Byakuya is Rukia's brother and the leader of the Kuchiki Family it would not seem inappropriate for him to handle "family business". Renji is his Vice-Captain so him being there is not strange either. Aizen was behind them coming but why would Urahara assume that. Rukia had gone missing and had not checked in SS was always going to come after her. But since Aizen was running the show behind the scenes the punishment didn't fit the crime. Rukia's execution was unjust considering her crimes. How could Urahara know that Aizen had nearly everyone in SS under hypnosis. So Aizen got what he wanted but that was not Urahara's fault SS was under Aizen control. Still here again this doesn't make Aizen smarter. Even if Urahara could go to SS no one would believe anything he had to say.

Fallen.
July 29, 2008, 11:59 PM
That is definitely a step over his shikai. . . so I would say that I was misinformed. I think Barragan is gonna eat it within the next 3 chapters, especially after the VCs rape his fraccion. This is probably one of those "respect your elders" things where Stark and Halibel let him take command because they know he will easily be defeated by the remaining Gotei 13 in Fake KK town.

And, I know EASILY is a bad word to use, but I say it in reference to the difficulty Stark and Halibel will pose relative to Barragan.

lol no that's his true release,he never shows anyone because he doesn't want his division members to know he uses a kido weapon.

Onomatopoeia
July 30, 2008, 12:23 AM
@TheTruth.com

So in the end this battle of between Urahara and Aizen is about 2 things intelligence and manipulation? Because I'm willing to admit that Aizen isn't as smart as Urahara(but still pretty darn smart) but a better manipulator then Urahara.

THETRUTH.com
July 30, 2008, 12:51 AM
@TheTruth.com

So in the end this battle of between Urahara and Aizen is about 2 things intelligence and manipulation? Because I'm willing to admit that Aizen isn't as smart as Urahara(but still pretty darn smart) but a better manipulator then Urahara.


Easily the better manipulator with his zanpaktou's ability. But though he is smart he doesn't need to be. Since he can hide his true intentions.

Onomatopoeia
July 30, 2008, 12:58 AM
I kinda feel that Kubo went to far with Aizen I mean really all bad guys have a weakness thats possible to exploit but Aizen well... Absolute Hypnosis.

Fallen.
July 30, 2008, 01:04 AM
I kinda feel that Kubo went to far with Aizen I mean really all bad guys have a weakness thats possible to exploit but Aizen well... Absolute Hypnosis.

not really,it depends on how many people he can catch in that hypnosis and if that hypnosis is unbreakable or not.

Onomatopoeia
July 30, 2008, 01:13 AM
Unohana a very experienced captain(especially in the field of health) but was not able to discern anything wrong with Aizen's body even though she had hours to study it in the end she was only suspicous. It has also fooled multiple captains and VCs, how is that not unbreakable?

itachisan
July 30, 2008, 02:25 AM
I want kubo to kill soifon, hitsugaya and komamura (optional)

I want to see the other great captains in action. I am interested in seeing their bankai in particular.

Kubo knows how to drag things.. he knows that everyone will be interested in the fights between top3 and top3; and he is showing the fights of the vice-captains and ichigo vs ulq.

if ichigo defeats ulq, it will be utterly pointless as he was defeated a few moments ago .. it will be better if ichigo learns, uses a new technique rather than using the same old bankai + GT

nicobarten
July 30, 2008, 02:55 AM
Unohana a very experienced captain(especially in the field of health) but was not able to discern anything wrong with Aizen's body even though she had hours to study it in the end she was only suspicous. It has also fooled multiple captains and VCs, how is that not unbreakable?

Well... if you can fight/beat Aizen with your eyes closed (which is possible - feeling the others reiatsu - remember tousen don't see anything yet he was a captain!)

Also i think most people here are underestimating Aizen AND Barragan. I've never seen make Aizen a mistake... and i still think Barragan's the espada nr. 1

Also, i think even Yamato get his ass kicked (which will be very interesting to see!). Remember what Aizen said - we don't have to do anything.

Don't underestimate Aizen!

hyn_pride93
July 30, 2008, 03:19 AM
I don't think anyone here thinks that Aizen is weak or are underestimating him. If anything, they're just saying that he seems as though he is that because we haven't even seen him do any fighting, just more running and hiding behind his illusions. The only time that we've seen him fight was back in the past when Hinamori, Kiba, Renji, Rukia, etc. were still in the academy, with those huge hollows that were probably and most likely created by him. Also, before he left SS and before he took the Hougyoku out of Rukia. Those are the only times that we've seen him fight. Stopping a zanpaktou with a finger, destroying (almost) a captain without even using a deadly hadou attack at it's fullest, and destroying hollows with hadou attacks. Ya that's pretty damn strong you know, and I think that with just that, no one would underestimate him so easily

RICKisBOSS
July 30, 2008, 03:29 AM
Kubo's done a good job of showing just enough of certain characters so people could go off on who is stronger than who but with Aizen and Urahara, it's not that simple, it'd be impossible. When it comes to whose stronger, I don't think there's much to say unless you want to get into if either used the orb (Urahara in an experimental phase or Aizen post-SS arc).

But if you want to question who is actually smarter, I got to give it to Urahara only because Aizen seems more like a manipulator whereas Urahara is made out to be the genius. Just off of his shikai and credibility as a member of the Gotei 13 and now leader of the arrancar alone, Aizen has advantages that very few have.

Can't say I'm a fan of either side at the moment but when obvious things or said and done, i.e. Barragan's latest actions, I see it more as Kubo throwing signals to get people off track (seriously guys if the old man was the current primero espada, it wouldn't be that obvious and with his attitude/ego, he'd throw it in everyone's faces) Also, if you think Aizen and co. are seriously at the will of a flaming box, you are seriously underestimating Aizen.

That and yeah 2nd VC is plenty worthless but there needed to be a tension braker here and there and things had to be explained to the readers somehow so power to oblivious (being whatshisface).

Mystic Moon
July 30, 2008, 10:01 PM
I wonder if the other three are gonna get a bankai during the battle or if they already have one in hiding. Cuz i really wanna see a bankai other than the captains', Ikkaku, and maybe some other vice there.

gigantor21
July 31, 2008, 06:05 AM
I wonder if the other three are gonna get a bankai during the battle or if they already have one in hiding. Cuz i really wanna see a bankai other than the captains', Ikkaku, and maybe some other vice there.

Honestly? I really, really hope they don't. Seeing 3 people forced to use Bankai against GJ's Fraccion--including a Captain--cheapened the hell out of the power-up IMO. And I much preferred the more tactical fights we saw before Bankai was introduced; one reason I hated the fights in the HM Arc is because the Bankai and Ressurection stifled any chance for real strategy. This is a good opportunity for Kubo to get back to the basics.

RICKisBOSS
July 31, 2008, 06:30 AM
^ After seeing Kenpachi beat Noitora with something other than a release or technique, I figured I should give him enough credit to say that he won't resort to some sort of powerup or something with this whole "elites" vs. fraccion thing. Then again, he don't even know what 9ths vice can do or what kind of improvements Ikkaku or Yumichika went through since that whole white invasion.