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View Full Version : Marine's ranks VS Pirate's bounties



ZeroChrome
July 28, 2008, 06:16 AM
Something came up to me after reading the latest chapter (508) which has revealed Drake's former rank in the Marine.

Firstly, we all know the fact that pirate's bounties in OP don't necessarily represent the strength of its holders. So does that also applies for rankings in the Marines? If it isn't, what other possible criterias will be judged before the ranks are given?

For the sake of argument, I'll bring up these points. But note, this is as far as we know until the recent chapter (508).

1) We all still don't know how strong Drake is, but it really bugs me, that how come he has a higher rank than Smoker, who has a Logia DF? Or other way of saying, how come someone strong like Smoker, who has a Logia DF, is just ranked as Commodore? Strengthwise he could actually ranked at least a Vice Admiral!


2) We've also seen Garp's strength back on Water Seven and we've also learned that Garp has cornered Roger a few times in the past (I can't remember where I read that in the manga but somehow I knew this :s). so how come someone strong/influential like him who has done such achievement is just ranked as a VA?


Both of the points have been discussed (I think) since they have their own threads, but I just wanted to stress that out for the sake of argument. Please let me know what you guys think

BlackHair
July 28, 2008, 06:57 AM
Many ppl are keep thinking, if u r strong u have to be high ranked. But u guys dont consider the fact u can be promoted within the marines by doing hard work even tho u r not as strong as other. Just 'cause Smoker is lower ranked don't doesn't rly have to mean he is weaker then Drake. There could be so many reasons why Smoker and Garp aren't ranked the worth of their strength, like their attitude or some background issue which wasn't told yet.. idk.. .

So far we only know that the Admirals are in common very strong. I think that's a requirement to be an Admiral which doesn't have to be for the other ranks.

Same goes for Pirates, like already said bounties doesn't show their strength. Bounties are based on the damage which he/she caused and/or on the amount of threat to the WG.

paradoxe
July 28, 2008, 07:10 AM
Drake is really strong. Or else he wouldn't be a Supernova. However, I'm pretty sure Smoker is as powerful as a low end Admiral, hes just so lowly ranked beacuse of his bad attitude.

Probably the same with Garp, although we don't know enough to tell.

ZeroChrome
July 28, 2008, 07:19 AM
There could be so many reasons why Smoker and Garp aren't ranked the worth of their strength, like their attitude or some background issue which wasn't told yet.. idk.. .


I know, but it's just that I think Garp deserve an Admiral title. I had in mind that he was probably once an Admiral, but got demoted due to age and to give way to some other younger ones (does that rule actually applies in the real world??).

Organizized
July 28, 2008, 09:32 AM
I think Smoker is aware that he could have a higher rank; last time we saw him (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/439/17/) he told Tashigi that they needed "positions" (as in ranks I think), and not like "damnit we can't go on"-ish, but rather "let's get better ranks so the pirates will fear and respect us". He doesn't seem to have a doubt in his mind that he can get promoted. Next time we see him he might be a rear- or even vice-admiral.

The reason that he's not higher ranked is probably not because he's too weak, rather that he's stayed in East Blue and Loguetown before to clear that town of pirates. This in addition to his shitty attitude and the fact that he was even close to being kicked out from the marines a couple of times (read in an SBS long time ago, no memory of which one).

paradoxe
July 28, 2008, 09:43 AM
This in addition to his shitty attitude and the fact that he was even close to being kicked out from the marines a couple of times

Thats true. Hina saved his ass (more then once I think).


I know, but it's just that I think Garp deserve an Admiral title. I had in mind that he was probably once an Admiral, but got demoted due to age and to give way to some other younger ones (does that rule actually applies in the real world??).

No it doesn't apply in the real world.
Keep in mind that the higher ranked officers int he real world don't need to fight themselves, unlike the higher ranked officers in the One piece world, so their physical capabilities don't matter. And unlike physical strength, mental 'strength' increases with age, with experience.

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 11:15 AM
@paradox is completely right!! couldnt have said it better myself


I think Garp is not an admiral because of his blood connection with Dragon... it would be embarassing to the marines, if 1 of their 3 admirals was wildly recognised as the father of one of the most dangerous man to the WG...
Smoker was already explained (by the people in this thread)


About the other ways a marine could increase in the ranks...

- Capturing a powerfull pirate/criminal (even if by chance) - thats what happened to Morgan... he captured "fake" Kuro

- By indication of the highter ranks - Like spadin to spandam, although it wasnt a marine rank, it was a pretty important job for the WG!! I think that kind of stuff might happen on the ranks as well

- By beeing really smart and tricking/cheating to be promoted - Thats how i think that guy who stole everything from Nami, got to be an officer

- Kissin someoneĀ“s butt might also work, if u can proove to be trustworthy that way, u might be promoted...

Thats all i can think off

noonethere
July 28, 2008, 12:08 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/212/16/
Here Smoker admits that some of the higher ranks are as strong as him.

http://www.arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/27
Also it is mentioned for the sbs of chapter 248 that Smoker and Hina are high ranked marines despite being young due to their DF powers, so DF abilities and experience are other factors determining rank. I think your rank might rise if your superior's rank rises(like for Tashigi after alabastan) or if you are under the care of someone strong(like for coby and hemelpo being constantly with Garp and also maybe sentamarou)
I like the idea of Garp being a former admiral since even WB respect him and this would also explain the recurring dog theme associated with him(if he was the former akainu). About Drake i think that his high bounty is partly due to the fact that he was a former rear admiral.

3 Days Grace
July 28, 2008, 12:25 PM
it would be nice if akainu was promoted after the Ohara incident because Garp refused to go murder innocent civilians.. Thus being Demoted to Vice Admiral.. and thats how Akainu took his spot... and also Garp and SMoker seem to move on their own without orders.. so that can also be a factor

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 12:31 PM
If Garp was an Admiral (and i dont think he was) he couldnt be demoted for not participating on the Ohara incident... only Vice Admirals are supposed to be at the buster call

ZeroChrome
July 28, 2008, 01:45 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/212/16/
Here Smoker admits that some of the higher ranks are as strong as him.

http://www.arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/27
Also it is mentioned for the sbs of chapter 248 that Smoker and Hina are high ranked marines despite being young due to their DF powers, so DF abilities and experience are other factors determining rank. I think your rank might rise if your superior's rank rises(like for Tashigi after alabastan) or if you are under the care of someone strong(like for coby and hemelpo being constantly with Garp and also maybe sentamarou)

thanx for pointing those out. I forgot about the 1st one. so that can explain why Smoker is just a Commodore despite being so strong and having a Logia DF.




it would be nice if akainu was promoted after the Ohara incident because Garp refused to go murder innocent civilians.. Thus being Demoted to Vice Admiral.. and thats how Akainu took his spot... and also Garp and SMoker seem to move on their own without orders.. so that can also be a factor

I quite agree on this. we've seen before that Smoker and Garp acted on their own. Smoker letting Luffy go at Alabasta. Garp at Water Seven (while partly because he's his grandson). so I guess their way on doing things isn't approved by Marine's higher-up, that's why they aren't high-ranked before. but this time Smoker is determined to catch Luffy. he'll most probably climb up in ranks to get more power & authority from the higher-ranked people

3 Days Grace
July 28, 2008, 01:50 PM
OH yaa that 5 VA busters call thing slipped my mind.. i guess Garp was never an Admiral in his time than

kkck
July 28, 2008, 01:54 PM
I think marine ranks depend on two things, strenght and leadership ( not nesesarily inteligence, just look agt garp lol). Anyone with a good combination of this two things I think should be able to get to be a high level marine.

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 02:10 PM
Becoming an Admiral means you probablly have to swear complete fealty to the WG or do something that merits that like off the top of my head killing a good friend because he betrayed the WG(Aokiji).

It probablly also has to do with strength but not intelligence(seriously Kizaru is a freaking idiot).

3 Days Grace
July 28, 2008, 02:18 PM
I agree intellegience has nothing to do with it... Akouji doesnt seem all that bright to me either... well i guess if they were smart they would realise and question some of their orders given to them by HQ

DutchPhoenix
July 28, 2008, 03:08 PM
smoker isnt allowed to enter the new world with his current rank.. thats why he needs to get higher

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 03:34 PM
Really?!?! i guessed i missed that part... may i trouble you to post ur sorce?!
So anyone would have to be at least a Rear Admiral to get to the NW... interesting

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 03:42 PM
smoker isnt allowed to enter the new world with his current rank.. thats why he needs to get higher

!!??

You sure you don't mean that he needs to be that powerful to get better troops? Because I defintely don't remember that.

goldb
July 28, 2008, 04:29 PM
@DutchPhoenix: would you please back up your comment with a source please, because if u are refering to this:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/439/17

and if it's that then i agree with Onomatopoeia that what he was talking about is that he needs a higher rank to get better troops to be able to attack the SH in the new world, nevertheless your comments could still be true...

I think it's safe to say that there is a reason as to why garp isn't an admiral or something...the reason? we don't know and may not find out for a while...

Raysen_ht
July 28, 2008, 04:38 PM
@goldb
As i said before, i think the reason Garp is not an admiral is because of his blood connection to Dragon... Even though its not globaly known... it could, at one point, be... And the marines cant have that kind of man associated with 1 of the only 3 admirals in the world...

ANBU4U
July 28, 2008, 04:56 PM
smoker isnt allowed to enter the new world with his current rank.. thats why he needs to get higher

You know I never interpreted that line that way b4, but now that you mention it that may be right.

And it makes sense too....on average, sending anyone bellow rear-admiral to the NW should be pointless shouldn't it? The WG doesn't have control of that sea, it would be beyond them.

3 Days Grace
July 28, 2008, 04:57 PM
i dont think most ppl know about him related to Dragon.. his own crew members were surprised when they found that out at Water 7... i think thats something only the higher ups know.. but that can still be the reason he didnt get a promotion

Organizized
July 28, 2008, 07:02 PM
smoker isnt allowed to enter the new world with his current rank.. thats why he needs to get higher

I always thought of that part as Onomatopeia and goldb mentioned: he needs better troops to be able to take on the strawhats. Yet I don't think that only applies only the SH. He mentions that all the pirates of the world are "getting restless like the straw hats", so my guess is that partly he needs stronger troops to be able to take on all the pirates ahead, and partly he needs a higher rank to earn respect and fear from them. I mean, you saw how everyone were running upon hearing Kizaru's name right? Something like that (though I'm not saying he'll get that much influence or become that strong).

JC123
July 28, 2008, 07:46 PM
I think you all are missing something. This is personal to Smoker. He has NEVER allowed a pirate to escape and yet, Dragon and Luffy, got away from him. Luffy simply because of his father accepting his choice of being a pirate. Also, Smoker's life was saved by a pirate.

So he let him go once. Now, he's coming back to take Luffy to Impel Down personally. He's not strong enough to take on the New World. I believe he realizes that he was comforted on the one base. And with it being that he needs a new rank, he can take on more pirates without worrying about BS like in Rogue Town (I don't care how it looks to others... Rogue Town makes a helluva lot more sense than Log Town as Gol D's birth home...)

Anyway, I don't see Garp being demoted because of his son. He doesn't have the personality to take on something so drastic as a Buster Call. Look what happened with Saul. I'm pretty sure that Saul and Garp knew of each other. There is no way that Garp wouldn't have done something similar to Saul, given their strong convictions on Justice.

Now why Dragon is a revo, I unno quite yet. We'll see why in the new world. But Garp being punished because of his choices?

...

I would have to see. It's possible that Garp just chose to be a VA and not take on the responsibility of being an Admiral,.

Rain_Reborn
July 28, 2008, 09:20 PM
admirals can take the four emperors there bounties must be in the billions, vices admirals take on the big threats like 300-800 million guys and the newbie entering the new world

Onomatopoeia
July 28, 2008, 10:41 PM
JC you forgot Ace who Smoker techinclly went after. That whole familly is trouble for him :XD

DutchPhoenix
July 29, 2008, 04:28 AM
smoker said

as long the marines are still a organization, even as a captain my JURISDICTION can only extend so far (meaning he can with his current rank go all over the GL, but not enter the NW, he needs to be higher ranked for that)

what we NEED now are positions (aka higher rank)

if he has that, he can enter the new world and crush the SH's ^^

ZeroChrome
July 29, 2008, 05:56 AM
hmm.. I think it's not really "literally" means he can't enter NW with his rank now but I think he meant in order to survive or at least he can go up against stronger marines only if he has higher rank. with higher rank he can get a stronger troop to face stronger pirates. if he go into NW as he is right now, probably he won't survive long

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 07:11 AM
I think Smoker meant that some high ranked guys dont want him to go there... but that doesnt mean that other commodores arent allowed in the NW!!
Imo, he wants to get "positions", to be able to stand up to whomever is against him, inside the institution.... not outside

goldb
July 29, 2008, 07:52 AM
@raysen_ht: could be true...waits to be seen...he is very stubborn to the point of insulting the gorosei when they wanted him to go back to Marijoa for his promotion ceremony...telling them to "eat shit"!?

BlackHair
July 29, 2008, 10:21 AM
smoker said

as long the marines are still a organization, even as a captain my JURISDICTION can only extend so far (meaning he can with his current rank go all over the GL, but not enter the NW, he needs to be higher ranked for that)

what we NEED now are positions (aka higher rank)

if he has that, he can enter the new world and crush the SH's ^^
I agree with u, seems most plausible for me.
U need a higher rank to get better or more troops to survive out there in the NW. Soldiers with a lower rank are in the most cases inexperienced/weak or disobedient and that's why the WG won't let u command troops if u r low ranked. If u r high ranked u can command a better ranked troop (stronger and with more experience) and this way ur surviving chances will be high. Its not like the WG will allow suicide troops among their command.

Host Samurai
July 29, 2008, 10:42 AM
I agree with u, seems most plausible for me.
U need a higher rank to get better or more troops to survive out there in the NW. Soldiers with a lower rank are in the most cases inexperienced/weak or disobedient and that's why the WG won't let u command troops if u r low ranked. If u r high ranked u can command a better ranked troop (stronger and with more experience) and this way ur surviving chances will be high. Its not like the WG will allow suicide troops among their command.

I feel the same way...the WG would never allow a low ranked soldier to enter the New World because they would simply get killed by the Pirates. They would drop like flies just like how Mihawk showed that to Krieg. And that 'warning' was only for entering the Grand Line!

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 11:03 AM
I feel the same way...the WG would never allow a low ranked soldier to enter the New World because they would simply get killed by the Pirates. They would drop like flies just like how Mihawk showed that to Krieg. And that 'warning' was only for entering the Grand Line!

I agree with both of you, but a comoddore should be high enough to enter... otherwhise only

Rear admirals - about 15 (im only guessing)

Vice admiral - 10 (guess)

Admirals - 3

only 28 people in the whole marina are allowed there?!?! its too few to stand up to the strongest pirates...

paradoxe
July 29, 2008, 11:06 AM
Well, 28 people and their crews.

That should be enough, no?

Or else captains with their own ships are probably allowed as long as they have an admiral-level officer leading them or supervising.

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 11:17 AM
Well... 5 VA plus crews, only had 200 people on capitain (and above) level... (not counting the VA tehmselfs) and only 8 SH (after the fight with CP9 i might add) were enough to hold them back!!!

WB have 1600 man at his crew... the comandants of each division are extremely powerfull (at least the ones we met were)... and thats only 1 of the 4 yonkos!!!


Ur idea of the capitains beeing allowed with supervision sounds preety good to me!!

BlackHair
July 29, 2008, 12:11 PM
Offtopic:
Well, now thinking back (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=964277&postcount=112) it makes sense why Garp said "Marine HQ" and not Marine while explaining the triangle balance system (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/07/).

****

Or else captains with their own ships are probably allowed as long as they have an admiral-level officer leading them or supervising.
Yep, actually I was talking about that. :P


WB have 1600 man at his crew... the comandants of each division are extremely powerfull (at least the ones we met were)... and thats only 1 of the 4 yonkos!!!

Well, we dont know exactly how many strong (=high ranked) marines are out there. And even among WB there have to be some cannonfodder i.e. weaklings and idios like the guys who fell down under "pressure" in the meeting between "red hair" and "whitebeard".

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 01:29 PM
****

Well, we dont know exactly how many strong (=high ranked) marines are out there. And even among WB there have to be some cannonfodder i.e. weaklings and idios like the guys who fell down under "pressure" in the meeting between "red hair" and "whitebeard".

Yes we dont know how many there are, but considering that only 3 admirals exist... i would be preety surprised if there were more than 30 VA+RA... well i cant proove there isnt though...

Im sure many of the 1600 are cannonfodder as u suggested, but i dont think every guy who fell under the pressure Shanks was showing are weacklings...
Im preety sure that Nami, Usopp and Chopper would fall as well (maybe even Brooke and Robin)... and they arent weaklings in any way (not as strong as others SH... but still)!!

Lets say that 75% of his crew are weacklings (which is a lot!!) there is still 400 strong guys!!!
5 VA could only bring 200 strong guys to the table... i think its preety clear that the marines need all the forces they can get to stand up to all 4 younkos!!

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 03:57 PM
Those 200 Strong guys could probablly take 300 of WBs troops from what we've seen. Not only that but your downgrading the VA's and RA's to the extreme. A normal VA could probablly take out two of WB's commander(except fo the top few) and honestly if they're were 30 VAs and even more RA's I wouldn't be surprised. 30 is a tiny amount expecially considering that they have an entire ocean to cover.

JC123
July 29, 2008, 05:05 PM
Hmmm...

Remember, there can't be TOO many VA and RAs...

My thing is this:

There's the HQ Marines and then there's the regular Marines.

Smoker is considered a regular at LogueTown which is kind of like one downgrade of a rank because you're not needed as much as a higher ranked official near Mariejoa.

Raysen_ht
July 29, 2008, 05:24 PM
Those 200 Strong guys could probablly take 300 of WBs troops from what we've seen.

Those 200 strong guys, couldnt even defeat 7 SH after they were already beaten up by the fight against CP9

paradoxe
July 29, 2008, 08:57 PM
The Strawhats are just strong.


There's the HQ Marines and then there's the regular Marines.

Well its kinda like this, in my opinion. Like in regular armies, there are garrison troops and army corps, which deployed to 'trouble' areas to quell rebellion or repel attack. 'Regular' marines are like garrison troops, and HQ marines are the elite, the ones which are deployable. As such, an HQ captain is a lot more powerful then a 'regular' captain, and so on.

Onomatopoeia
July 29, 2008, 08:58 PM
Good point Raysen but the Strawhats were still struggling against them.

JC123
July 29, 2008, 09:08 PM
I unno if they're even on RA level yet. Currently, they have a difficult time with Captains. Though I would love to see new Captains and Commodores to fight against them.

paradoxe
July 29, 2008, 09:20 PM
Currently, they have a difficult time with Captains.

Who?

The strawhats smashed up the elite HQ level captains if I remembered correctly, and that was after their exhausting fight with teh CP9.

Luffy is definitely at or above the average VA level, rest of the Strawhats I'mnot sure, but definitelymuch stronger then the average captain.

JC123
July 29, 2008, 09:42 PM
I'm talking the crew as a whole. Usopp is a good base. They ran from Garp who's a VA, Smoker's one up (Commodore) from Captain, so let's say a swarm of Captains is their base.

Smoker (theoretically) can take Luffy, with the Captains going for the weaker SHs.

paradoxe
July 29, 2008, 09:48 PM
Captains take Zoro?

He could alone take on 1000 + captains most probably, if he wasn't fatigued or anything.

And thats not counting the other Strawhats.

Don't forget Smoker is a lot stronger then teh average Commodore..
And Garps a lot stronger then the average VA.

Onomatopoeia
July 30, 2008, 12:15 PM
Captains take Zoro?

He could alone take on 1000 + captains most probably, if he wasn't fatigued or anything.

And thats not counting the other Strawhats.

Don't forget Smoker is a lot stronger then teh average Commodore..
And Garps a lot stronger then the average VA.

And where is your basis for this? We haven't seen a single VA fight yet other then Garp. We've only seen one Commodore fight but theirs probablly a reason why he wasn't in the Grand Line. Its more then possible that all Commodore's in the Grand Line are extremely strong.

BlackHair
July 30, 2008, 12:22 PM
We haven't even seen Garp fighting, yet u guys are comparing him to other. I know we r talking with numbers as possibilities, but still sounds stupid to base a discussion on this. We dont know anything so far, many things will probably revealed at the War, but 'till then..

..well I'm sure everyone knows that already.

Organizized
July 30, 2008, 12:39 PM
And where is your basis for this? We haven't seen a single VA fight yet other then Garp. We've only seen one Commodore fight but theirs probablly a reason why he wasn't in the Grand Line. Its more then possible that all Commodore's in the Grand Line are extremely strong.

Saul was a VA, and he threw a warship. o.O Don't know if you can count it as a fight though.. And I certainly don't see Garp as much stronger than Aokiji was back when he was known as Vice Admiral Kuzan.
Also, wasn't Hina a commodore? Cause we've seen her in action once and she showed for some promising abilites I think. So yes, I do think the commodores in the Grand Line are stronger than people imagine.

We haven't really seen Garp fight but he's given us a glimpse of how strong he is. That big-ass chainball he threw at the SH didn't seem light at all and his punches hurt Luffy which means they're strong and he probably didn't even use half of his strength in those (he's Luffy's grandpa after all).

Onomatopoeia
July 30, 2008, 12:45 PM
Organizized makes a great point(forgot about Saul and techincly Aokiji) both of them were VA's and from what we saw they were extremely strong. Thats 3 exceptions not one and I don't think thats very likely.

RA's are likely very powerful from what we've seen.

Also Hina is a Captain I remember that somewhere I'll check if you want me to. Though she could have risen in command like Smoker since then.

JC123
July 30, 2008, 10:23 PM
Both Smoker and Hina were Captains. Hina seems more intent on keeping her rank and capturing pirates before the Grand Line. Smoker is going up to take on Luffy in the New World.

paradoxe
July 30, 2008, 11:07 PM
We've only seen one Commodore fight but theirs probablly a reason why he wasn't in the Grand Line.

Lol you don't remember Purin-purin?

The commodore whos ship was sunk by Arlong's two henchman?

Rofl.