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Sexy Randal 105
July 30, 2008, 10:37 PM
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9666/bakueq9.jpg

From the awesome duo that brought you Death Note, comes a story about....manga? Yes, Bakuman is the exciting story of two boys. One boy wants to create manga to accomplish his dreams and show off his excellent writing skills to the world. The other wants to dazzle the girl of his dreams with his amazing art (And help her accomplish her dream of becoming a voice actor). Honestly, it's more exciting than it sounds. Give this great new manga a try. Trust me, it's better than Blue Dragon...

Forum Archive Available Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/842-Bakuman).

bunshindattebayo
July 31, 2008, 01:12 AM
Oh God,please don't make this an awesome one-shot manga that only appear once in a lifetime.
This will be a running serie in Jump,right?It looks pretty cool.

Sexy Randal 105
July 31, 2008, 10:59 AM
Yeah, this is a full fledged serialization.

StrangerAtaru
August 01, 2008, 10:22 AM
Based on what was translated by someone, it does seem to be a shonen series about...manga. Yes, manga. They did a series about guys writing names so they decided to do the next step: a writer and an artist! :p

kaloo
August 01, 2008, 10:48 AM
The manga making mangas are usually quite entertaining and goofy.(though I've also seen creepy and crazy ones) They don't often last very long though. We'll have to wait and see.

Muddy
August 01, 2008, 11:17 AM
Based on what was translated by someone, it does seem to be a shonen series about...manga. Yes, manga. They did a series about guys writing names so they decided to do the next step: a writer and an artist! :p

Oh, that sounds cool. Looks like it'll be light-hearted this time, which I approve of. Thanks for the info.

bunshindattebayo
August 01, 2008, 08:32 PM
OH!So this manga is about manga-making?That sounds good.I hope this manga will boil my blood just like Hoero Pen did.

P.S:It's funny how the two protagonist in this manga is a story writer and artist.Just like Ohba-sensei and Obata-sensei.

ShadowScythe
August 02, 2008, 07:00 AM
This looks pretty cool, can't wait to see something new from Ohba-sensei. When does the first chapter come out?

Muddy
August 02, 2008, 05:55 PM
This looks pretty cool, can't wait to see something new from Ohba-sensei. When does the first chapter come out?

In a week or so.

Sexy Randal 105
August 04, 2008, 10:23 AM
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-03/death-note-creators-confirmed-to-launch-bakuman-manga

Anime news network says that they are advertising this manga as "explosive." This leads me to believe that the name may actually being a pun. Maybe it doesn't have to do with manga. It could deal with explosions. It doesn't really look light hearted from the picture anyway. We will know in a few days. Anyone feel like translating the picture below?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/thumbnails/300x300/cms/news/24245/b-2.gif

eni
August 06, 2008, 08:06 PM
The drawing style reminds me rather on Hikaru no Go instead of Death Note. Looking forward to it! :clap

kewl0210
August 07, 2008, 12:33 AM
The shonen jump site has the "next issue cover" preview thing up for the next issue (37-38), so there are pics of this.

http://jump.shueisha.co.jp/yokoku.html

I assume it's not considered a spoiler if the series hasn't started yet...

Maxy Barnard
August 07, 2008, 04:21 AM
Okay, the colour page immediately screams that the art improvement still isn't too evident........ shame

Dofla
August 07, 2008, 05:12 AM
Chapter #1 - Summary by Mei:


絵の才能がある主人公は、ある男子に漫画家になろうと勧められる
だが、主人公は頑なに拒否

話の流れで主人公が想いを寄せる女の子のところへ行くと、女の子が声優志望であることが判明
そこで、主人公は自分達の書いた漫画のヒロインの声優をやってくれと提案

主人公「だからその夢が叶ったら 結婚してください」

女の子は照れて家の中に入るも、インターホンで「はい・・・」という返事
でも、女の子は夢が叶うまで会わないと言う

   なってやるマンガ家に! そして僕は亜豆と結婚する!! 

終わり

bunshindattebayo
August 07, 2008, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the spoiler,Dofla!Now if there's a translation.

chusetto
August 07, 2008, 08:47 AM
Thanks a bunch!

fxu
August 07, 2008, 09:09 AM
F@#$ FLASH

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9666/bakueq9.jpg

Sexy Randal 105
August 07, 2008, 10:34 AM
I need translation T_T

kewl0210
August 07, 2008, 12:30 PM
Ok, I guess I'll do it.
絵の才能がある主人公は、ある男子に漫画家になろうと勧められる
だが、主人公は頑なに拒否
The main character has the ability to draw, the young man there says he
should become a mangaka and encourages him. But the main character obstinately
refuses.

話の流れで主人公が想いを寄せる女の子のところへ行くと、女の子が声優志望で
あることが判明
As the story continues, the main character's feelings gather as he goes
to a young girl. It's established the girl has a wish to become a seiyuu
(voice actor).
そこで、主人公は自分達の書いた漫画のヒロインの声優をやってくれと提案
So the main character proposes that she come and be his own manga's heroin's
seiyuu.

主人公「だからその夢が叶ったら 結婚してください」
Main character: "So when that dream comes true, please marry me."

女の子は照れて家の中に入るも、インターホンで「はい・・・」という返事
でも、女の子は夢が叶うまで会わないと言う
The young girl also becomes shy, over the intercom "Yes..." is the reply.
But it is said that her dream still hasn't come true.

   なってやるマンガ家に! そして僕は亜豆と結婚する!! 
I'll become a mangaka! And I'll marry Azu!!

[I'm guessing a bit on the name, could be a combination of a couple other
things depending on what they pick, or however names work. Could be Atou,
Ashiazu, or Ashiatou, too. Might even be something else, you'd need someone
better at names or else check the furigana when the chapter comes out.]

終わり
End.

I dunno why he never gives the names of the actual characters, though. I guess we'll need to wait for that. Looks pretty good, though it doesn't seem like a "death note" sorta thing, at all really.

Dofla
August 07, 2008, 01:07 PM
Thanks kewl0210!


Well there's an other spoiler which seems to be more complete:


1ページ 夢と現実

主人公は中三の「真城最高(ましろ・もりたか)」
特に将来やりたいこともないが親や世間体のためにとりあえず引き篭もらず勉強をしている
絵で数々のコンクールで入賞
叔父に漫画家を持つ(もう死んでいる 最高は自殺した、と考えている)
そしてクラスメイトに片思い中
授業中に片思いの子「アズキ」をノートに模写 
家に帰り、中間テストが控えてるため勉強をしようとするも模写をしていたノートが見当たらない事に気付く
なくても勉強には困らないがノートが誰かに見られるのはマズイ
そして教室に取りに行くと同級生で秀才の「高木秋人」が
「見られたか!?」「そんな深刻な顔するなよ【デスノート】ってわけでもないし」
こんな感じのやり取りが続き、秋人は最高に「自分が文章、最高が作画」で漫画家を目指そう、と提案
とりあえず拒否するもあまりのしつこさに嫌気をさすが、一日考える猶予をもらう
帰宅しゲームで遊んでいたところ母にテスト勉強をするようにキツめに促され憤慨する最高
すると秋人から電話が「いまからアズキに告白するからお前も来い!」
とりあえずアズキの家に行くとそこには豪邸が
アズキは声優を目指していることが発覚
そしてある約束を取り付ける
「最高と秋人が漫画を描き、それがアニメになったらアズキがヒロインの声優をやる そしてアズキは最高と結婚する」と
そしてこの約束(夢)が叶うまで最高とアズキは会う事はない、メールはよしとする
しかし最高は秋人と組むとは決めてない
そして「漫画の達人」風の指南書を購入、で終わり

次回、「馬鹿と利口」
新時代サクセスストーリーらしいです

Sexy Randal 105
August 07, 2008, 01:54 PM
That's a really odd plot for a manga. o_O

kewl0210
August 07, 2008, 02:22 PM
That one's a lot longer. I'll maybe get to it but it's a lot harder.
It says the boy's name is Mashiro Moritaka. The kanji for his first name, Moritaka, is the same kanji for "saiko" which means "best" or "ultimate" or "supreme". I think it says he's a third year middle school student, which is like a highschool freshman in the US.
The girl's name is Azuki.
The other guy's name is there too, it's something like
高木秋人 : Kouboku Akihito... I dunno way more combinations on this.
The characters say something about Death Note in the story.

kaloo
August 07, 2008, 04:27 PM
Sounds wonderful. Even moreso than earlier. And wierd plot, that's nto very nice. It seems goofy-crazy-awesome. =P

Sexy Randal 105
August 07, 2008, 10:44 PM
I am kind of disappointed by this plot. This seems like the setup to more of a Shojo type story, not Jump.

No_Comxxx
August 08, 2008, 04:51 AM
It looks like this manga is interestin' than the previous..

Baku-man
August 08, 2008, 05:06 AM
That one's a lot longer. I'll maybe get to it but it's a lot harder.
It says the boy's name is Mashiro Moritaka. The kanji for his first name, Moritaka, is the same kanji for "saiko" which means "best" or "ultimate" or "supreme". I think it says he's a third year middle school student, which is like a highschool freshman in the US.
The girl's name is Azuki.
The other guy's name is there too, it's something like
高木秋人 : Kouboku Akihito... I dunno way more combinations on this.
The characters say something about Death Note in the story.

I think it's Kouboku but Akihito could be Akijin.

Sexy Randal 105
August 08, 2008, 10:01 AM
Are there any groups planning on scanlating it when the raw comes out?

LegACy
August 08, 2008, 10:15 AM
I do.
Well, I think the more appropriate question is "is there any translator interested in translating it?"..

Maxy Barnard
August 08, 2008, 04:52 PM
Romance always has a home in jump. just look at hatsukoi, I"S, Video Girl! It pleases me that there's a healthy dose of that being thrown into the fray.

overall the plot will get me reading it, if only so i can review it when it finishes :D

Sherlock Holmes
August 08, 2008, 05:07 PM
it's going to become death note soon. He is going to discover how to increase his manga sales and say "JUST AS PLANNED", as he fools his enemy that goes by the pen name of "L" into not using enough fanservice, defeating him flawlessly.

....one way or another, this manga is going to be gold. No offense, but the plot seems...rather dumb really. And I like dumb plots. They are funny.

StrangerAtaru
August 08, 2008, 08:26 PM
Looking over the first chapter...may be something interesting if translated. On the other hand...somehow I think Ohba is giving us more hints on his true ID. (see the Luckyman-like hero in the manga the lead once read)

bunshindattebayo
August 08, 2008, 08:45 PM
I just read the first chapter and I like it.It's really contrast to Death Note.The protagonist also feels like Light a bit."It's a pain-in-the-ass boring future "<--This speech is so Light-like:XD.Oh,and I like the manga references:
"It's not a Death Note,is it?" and "We'll never be more popular than Dragonball or One Piece"LOL.:p

No_Comxxx
August 08, 2008, 09:00 PM
True its interestin' to think the char would like Ral and the persona is like Light...WOW!!
cant wait for the next chap..!!

Muddy
August 08, 2008, 09:17 PM
it's going to become death note soon. He is going to discover how to increase his manga sales and say "JUST AS PLANNED", as he fools his enemy that goes by the pen name of "L" into not using enough fanservice, defeating him flawlessly.

Hahaha, brilliant!

I enjoyed the first chapter. The chapter was really cheesy and awkward at moments (the whole first bit felt so much like DN it was ridiculous, but also clearly intentional - perfect for laughs), which means Ohba's not taking himself too seriously - but I also liked the more serious stuff, like the story with his uncle. Very good stuff. The art is lovely too, but we expected as much.

I'm already looking forward to more; these 58 pages were still too few!

bigtymer32
August 08, 2008, 10:25 PM
i can't wait till someone scans this manga i want to read it:)

Austeria
August 08, 2008, 11:56 PM
:lmao

I enjoyed it. Immensely. The entire first chapter is just... so full of energy it's hilarious. Oh, and the beginning made me laugh with all the Death Note vibe and the mention of notes.

Another thing: "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!" "I DON'T KNOW... I'M ONLY IN 9TH GRADE..." :lmao

Great start. Definitely following this one.

Sexy Randal 105
August 09, 2008, 12:52 AM
Can't wait until it is translated. I was gonna say that a plot like that can only be popular to otakus and couldn't hold appeal mainstream. I hope I am wrong.

vintagemistakes
August 09, 2008, 01:32 AM
for those who haven't got a chance to see/read it, here's a online viewable link via onemanga....
Bakuman 001 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bakuman/1/)

As for the chapter... it looks interesting to say the least. I want to read it over before I really form an opinion on it since I'm so bloody tired right now but I will say...that at first glance, I was kinda disappointed with the artwork. Overall Obata did a good job... I just felt that some of the pages were somewhat subpar for what we have seen from him do in earlier pieces. I don't know... maybe I got too used to his work in the oneshots; Hello baby, Death Note oneshot and Urooboe Uroboros... which artistically were pretty much flawless in my opinion.

Succubus
August 09, 2008, 01:54 AM
lmaoooo "don't look so serious. it's not a death note, is it?"... that made mee lol so hard!

man... this manga is hilarious... I like both characters.. xD

it seems Takagi = Ohba | Mashiro = Obata... O_o

lookin forward to it!

bunshindattebayo
August 09, 2008, 02:16 AM
Now I really want to see pictures of Ohba-sensei and Obata-sensei.Maybe both of them really look like Saiko and Akito.:p

fxu
August 09, 2008, 02:47 AM
Now I really want to see pictures of Ohba-sensei and Obata-sensei.Maybe both of them really look like Saiko and Akito.:p

Obata:
http://student.nu.ac.th/deathnote/Images/Takeshi%20Obata.jpg

I can't find an image of Ohba... it's like he doesn't exist! (Possibly a pen-name)

momo90
August 09, 2008, 03:19 AM
WooooW!

....I don't wanna ruin it for anyone..

LOL!!

This is another manga on my list!

Hopefully it dosn't last too long..(like one piece)

how do you do the spoiler tags? :(

Maxy Barnard
August 09, 2008, 06:06 AM
fxu, the conundrum of ohba is supposedly that he's the luckyman manga-ka under a different name to avoid comparisons to his old comedy work or such.

And explosive is certainly a way to describe bakuman! revealing more on the jump editors ways of cancelling series after around 10 weeks of low rankings (subject to alteration of course, dependant on length of series), giving the largest hint yet that the author of luckyman is Ohba, and managing to throw together something infinitely more interesting than death note (though time will tell).......

Explosive.

bunshindattebayo
August 09, 2008, 06:12 AM
I hope Shueisha won't cancel this one.I think this manga is a benefit for people who want to make manga.

P.S:Noodles,are you Indiana Mcemo?

No_Comxxx
August 09, 2008, 06:43 AM
Hey,,dont talk about the cancel so early!!

but since its the one from the best manga-ka,U shouldn't worry!!

Maxy Barnard
August 09, 2008, 06:59 AM
yeah i'm indiana mcemo, and flipthepage on the weeklyjump readers journal. glad someone noticed.

and it's like they say in bakuman itself, mangaka can have very little success after a hit, ala jyuki jumbor by takei after shaman king flopping, or the trend bari haken seems to be repeating at present.

but i hope bakuman gets a good life, even if something feels weird about the seiyuu character. things won't work out for our precious little artist i'm sure

Koen
August 09, 2008, 09:34 AM
Well I loved the chapter very much. I wonder which way the manga will go to: the genre of course

but somehow I get a feeling this might be an autobiographic manga :p

RyuSensei
August 09, 2008, 09:50 AM
Nice manga. The drawings are cool and the plot is really original. Hope it's gonna get even better.

Sexy Randal 105
August 09, 2008, 11:15 AM
This manga has a lot of heart. I'm certainly impressed. I hope it lasts.

Baku-man
August 09, 2008, 11:15 AM
I didn't like it.

Maxy Barnard
August 09, 2008, 02:42 PM
Must make ya gutted about you're name eh? wahahahahaha....aha.... i'm done.

what didn't ya like?

Baku-man
August 09, 2008, 04:23 PM
Must make ya gutted about you're name eh? wahahahahaha....aha.... i'm done.

I figured I'd pick it before someone who likes the series picks it. I guess that's kind of mean.


what didn't ya like?

I doubt it matters to such an extent that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that that was a rhetorical question.

eni
August 09, 2008, 05:44 PM
Stay ontopic please.

I also liked it a lot. Can't wait for the next chapter :D

RyuSensei
August 09, 2008, 05:47 PM
Do you guys think the series will be over when the two marry? <.< It would be actually quite cool if they married somehow before their dreams come true and deal with it/hide it from everyone at school and stuff.

Koen
August 09, 2008, 08:03 PM
Do you guys think the series will be over when the two marry? <.< It would be actually quite cool if they married somehow before their dreams come true and deal with it/hide it from everyone at school and stuff.

Well I can't know. It's really difficult to say because this is only one chapter far and there's just a story that has been set out...

But I always am so focused on the first page(s) when his uncle said he's a great artist though he wanted to hear mangaka but never heard it...

Sexy Randal 105
August 09, 2008, 09:04 PM
I can see it now...The WSJ Editor is the antagonist of the story! "You dare defy me? LOW TOC RANKING THIS WEEK! HAHAHAHA"

Quetz
August 09, 2008, 09:28 PM
I liked it more as I read on, but if it hadn't been from the creator of death note I doubt I would ever have given it a chance..

Emery
August 09, 2008, 09:52 PM
Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to read the manga like this?

http://i35.tinypic.com/2gyau09.png

bunshindattebayo
August 09, 2008, 10:36 PM
Is that a Binktopia release?

Emery
August 09, 2008, 11:13 PM
Is that a Binktopia release?

Lol. No.

That looks nothing like a Binktopia release.

bunshindattebayo
August 09, 2008, 11:59 PM
Sorry about that.:p
The font looks similiar.

ttxdragon
August 10, 2008, 06:15 AM
That's great quality, Emery =3

So will it be released as M7, Phase 3 or a revival of TOWNL? =D
(great to have an [awesome] alternative to the sleepyfans speed-release)
I'm looking forward to whomevers groupname you're gonna release this under =D


-

as for the series itself:

It's definitely a funny one till now, and I hope it's gonna be unpredictable. This series has many paths open for it, but what I mainly wonder is which way it will go in terms of the two choosing their first publishing ways... will they immediately try to go for magazine/anthology releases or will they aim for the doujin-market first? doujinshi would likely have the advantage of being easier on 'rival' and friend introduction, while aim-for-the-mag would be a more straight forward way in which we might meet more of the 'inner workings' faster than over the doujinshi route.
Not to mention that the doujinshi-road has been done some multiple times before and it would be a fair bit harder to do something original with it, I think I could trust this author/artist pair to make it interesting and original in the end =3

anyway! it's a shame that this first chapter has been released in a double-issue, so long of a wait till the next one is out... =(

Andzu
August 10, 2008, 09:25 AM
Looks really promising! The beginning was pretty serious and reminded me of Death Note, but then... really funny^^

And I wonder if what the hero is saying about mangakas is actually true%)

Em_Leingod
August 10, 2008, 09:45 AM
Wow, I am in love. This manga is awesome.:amuse

Ustegius
August 10, 2008, 01:54 PM
Looks quite interesting, very promising indeed. ALso there was little detail I loved! : That guy with glasses said something like "Our manga will become more popular than One Piece or Drangonball", no mention of Naruto there :D Justice ^^

Sexy Randal 105
August 11, 2008, 10:15 AM
I will be mad if their concept is so good that it will make us wonder why Obata and Ohba didn't just make THAT manga.

Quetz
August 11, 2008, 10:46 PM
I can't help but wonder if this will end up being some sort of fan service spree, where they just present all their different ideas and have the characters do whichever idea is the most popular.

Kibate
August 11, 2008, 11:41 PM
i hope they will fail with their project, because if they are actually going to be fulltime mangakas, it will just give the readers of this manga new hope of becoming mangakas on their own, as in what was said in chapter1 already, is like winning a lottery. Please make Baku-man realistic! I beg ya!

Sexy Randal 105
August 13, 2008, 12:04 PM
I am so confused. I don't see how this will stay interesting. Probably in the same way Hikaru did. It seems to be in the same style.

Maxy Barnard
August 13, 2008, 01:52 PM
the trials and tribulations of being mangaka... it can easily stay interesting, as they'd be drawing from real experience for one i'm sure, aswell as the fact that it has some good hooks to it. it'll at least be good for 3 volumes i'm sure

Sherlock Holmes
August 13, 2008, 04:12 PM
i hope they will fail with their project, because if they are actually going to be fulltime mangakas, it will just give the readers of this manga new hope of becoming mangakas on their own, as in what was said in chapter1 already, is like winning a lottery. Please make Baku-man realistic! I beg ya!

Why the hell do you want fiction to be realistic?

I am fine with anything they do, as long as they cross the line not once, but twice. It's only funny after you do it twice.

Seriously though, fiction would be boring if it was realistic. And I do mean most of it.

Quetz
August 13, 2008, 10:06 PM
I'm sure the mangaka will make it ineresting, somehow...

Either extreme, realistic or fictional, doesn't seem like it'd be that interesting, IMO.

Sherlock Holmes
August 13, 2008, 11:35 PM
I'm sure the mangaka will make it ineresting, somehow...

Either extreme, realistic or fictional, doesn't seem like it'd be that interesting, IMO.

I am still hoping for him to have a super awesome strategy in order to fool his rival mangaka into not using enough fanservice, and then being cancelled instead of him. Then,after saying "JUST AS PLANNED" they will have a psychological duel that will be so dumb that it will become awesome.

Quetz
August 14, 2008, 07:22 AM
I am still hoping for him to have a super awesome strategy in order to fool his rival mangaka into not using enough fanservice, and then being cancelled instead of him. Then,after saying "JUST AS PLANNED" they will have a psychological duel that will be so dumb that it will become awesome.

This made my day, rofl.

bigtymer32
August 14, 2008, 04:33 PM
this series is awesome.this is the first series that i know of being about people wanting to be mangaka.i can't wait to read more of it.

Crude
August 14, 2008, 06:37 PM
I enjoyed the first chapter a lot. I can't wait to see what difficulties lie ahead for the two main characters. I also hope something happens between the artist and the seiyuu so that the story doesn't become predictable.

.:SaiHa:.
August 16, 2008, 01:14 PM
thanks this manga is good ^^

hyorinmaru
August 21, 2008, 02:39 AM
chapter 2:

http://i37.tinypic.com/2ykhuyt.jpg

don't forget to add spoiler tags since some people don't want to see it yet

Ok, sorrry

more spoiler & pic from RS



屋上でメガネ語る
はっきり言ってご高説が多くてウザイです

母ちゃんに漫画家になる事を反対される
が、父ちゃんは「好きな事やらせてやれ」この言葉に涙が出る
爺ちゃん、叔父さんの仕事部屋の鍵を渡す
ガキ走る

終わり

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/2311/baku2cn5.jpg

kewl0210
August 21, 2008, 12:28 PM
屋上でメカ゛ネ語る
On the rooftop they talk about glasses.
はっきり言ってご高説が多くてウザイです
He says clearly his many opinions are annoying.

母ちゃんに漫画家になる事を反対される
His mother is opposed to the idea of becoming a mangaka.
が、父ちゃんは「好きな事やらせてやれ」この言葉に涙が出る
His father says "I think you should do what you like", and he sheds tears
from these words.
爺ちゃん、叔父さんの仕事部屋の鍵を渡す
His grandfather hands him over the key to his uncle's workroom.
ガキ走る
The kid runs.

終わり
End.

Added spoiler tags. Thanks a lot!

Sherlock Holmes
August 23, 2008, 11:21 PM
Chapter 2: What's the death note level?
OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND

Seriously though, the whole personality thing seemed over the top and awesome at the same time. I liked it.

And I called it! It's slowly becoming death note!

Maxy Barnard
August 24, 2008, 05:32 AM
I haven't really seen it be like death note so far in. perhaps you're too intent on similarities?
Either way a good second chapter, started bonding the people together well through some text heaviness (OH thats like death note i guess. but then CAD is too in that respect) and we'll get more info on manga-ka stuff next week.

Easily one of the better series running in jump at the moment

fizban
August 24, 2008, 12:43 PM
Glasses guy is a pretty good liar. I've used that "I can tell you are smart because you can tell I think other people aren't smart" routine on people to make them do stuff for me. Throw in a compliment to the person they like and you can basically trick them into doing anything.

Sexy Randal 105
August 24, 2008, 09:34 PM
I think it's a lot more like Hikaru no go, actually. That's not a bad thing.

Shiro-kun
August 25, 2008, 12:52 AM
What an Interesting start to a manga, Ohba and Obata have a good manga going along!

edit: i like the references to not only there manga Death Note, But to Dragon Ball and One Piece lol

Azhra
August 25, 2008, 08:59 AM
The idea behind it is intriguing and will undoubtedly attract a lot of readers interested in becoming mangakas themselves.
Looking at the names of the people behind it, the series undeniably has potential, but the plot already seems locked down nicely.

What it has right now is the donkey (Moritaka), the carrot (Azuki) and a somewhat paved road to walk (career). The protagonists have even sworn an oath, leaving very little room for second thoughts and love triangles.

Perhaps it's just intended as a brief look into the world of manga creation, perhaps even loosely based on the creators' own experiences, but if Bakuman is to survive as anything other than an infomercial, it needs a handful of sub-plots and new characters introduced soon.

Quetz
August 26, 2008, 02:09 PM
/agree at the first part of the above post. I can only see one direction for this manga to go, and that direction will likely get stale very quickly. It's interesting so far, but I'd like to know how long they expect to keep us enteretained with such a simplistic plot line.

eni
August 26, 2008, 05:23 PM
Simple plot doesn't need to be bad plot. Hikaru no Go was very popular through all 23 volumes with a simple, non-action filled topic and few but loveable main characters. It certainly was a little strechted later but I still enjoyed every volume - I didn't understand the game at all, though >.>

This new Obata manga reminds me a lot on HnG in terms of the style, not so much on DN. Since the writers are different, it's certainly just my impression from the art but still a good example that a easy and simple "I want to make my hobby a success"-thingy can work well in the long run.

kaloo
August 27, 2008, 09:08 PM
It's only just started. Anything could happen at this point. Sure the basic direction is set but there are plenty of interuptions an subplots that could happen.

hyorinmaru
August 28, 2008, 02:36 AM
chapter 3 pic

http://i34.tinypic.com/mcrx5g.jpg

deadberry
August 28, 2008, 04:21 AM
http://i35.tinypic.com/1rx4av.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/16le0j8.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/21bizx5.jpg

and all my loving for eni

bunshindattebayo
August 28, 2008, 04:29 AM
Thanks for pics!
There are a lot of Dragon Ball manga in Saikio's uncle studio.Oh,and did I just see Shujin saying "Sex Rape"?There's also a mentioning of Naruto,One Piece,and Bleach.
God,I love the references in this manga.

eni
August 28, 2008, 04:30 AM
and all my loving for eni

I love you too! Thank you so much!! :fangirl

bigtymer32
August 28, 2008, 06:04 AM
@deadberry and hyorinmaru- thanks for the pics :)

people need to chill its only two chapters down theres still alot of story to tell.so be patient i'm sure the creates have stuff planned to keep peoples interest :) its really good so far .

Labeler25
August 29, 2008, 04:19 PM
This isn't directly related to the plot of Baku-man, but has anyone noticed the somewhat sexist messages in both Baku-man and Death Note? Death Note had very few female characters to begin with, most of the ones that were present were weak and the main one, Misa, was mostly used as fan-service. Now in Baku-man, Azuki is praised for conforming to gender stereotypes such as "being pretty" and "not being too smart." Her aspirations are "being graceful and cute." Ambitious, right? The smartest girl in the class, Iwase, is apparently disliked for flaunting her intelligence; "The fact that she's proud of it is repulsive. I think she's stupid." On the other hand it is perfectly fine for Takagi to be proud of his accomplishments, and he is admired.

The one that did it for me was "Men have dreams that women don't understand." I'm not even going to explain how condescending this statement is. Maybe somebody would like to defend and to clarify this sentence? Define the differences between men's aspirations and womens'?

I know this is to be expected in Shounen, but does anyone else feel that they at least disagree with statements such as "she's just being a girl" (which means what...diminuishing your accomlishments to be attractive?) and "...girls should be serious but not too smart. She was born with the ability to sense that being too smart isn't cute." Being cute sure is something to strive for. Why does it have to be implied that being intelligent and having pride in your accomplishements is incompatible with being cute or hot?

I love Death Note and I am expecting great things from Baku-man and would even go as far as saying that Ohba is one of my favourite manga authors, if only it wasn't for these outdated stereotypes. Give me a strong female character Ohba! His (or her..?) mangas are intelligent so this kind of regressive dialogue really stands out for me. Without overexaggerating, Baku-man shows that many of these notions are still widely believed today.

I know I'm not going to get brownie points for saying this...and maybe this isn't the best place for doing so, but I just wanted to point out a trend I've noticed.

kaloo
August 29, 2008, 05:18 PM
The feelings of characters don't neccesarily match the feelings of the authors.

Also men have stupid dreams. Only our felow idiots/men understand them. =P

Labeler25
August 29, 2008, 05:25 PM
Fair enough. :)

kewl0210
August 29, 2008, 06:40 PM
The idea is a societal thing, how within the culture that is how a girl would act given the social standards and he thinks it's a good choice to have made. They're trying to dig deeper than straighfoward and obvious things like "what they're doing" to "why they're doing it". People base their actions to a degree on how they're percieved and Shuuji was saying that she's figured out a balanced manner to act given her environment and expectations, seeing her as multi-dimensional.
The part about the mother is probably more along the lines of the father meaning more like a mother-type doesn't want their son to do things they think is a risk or squandering their gifts or something. Maybe meaning that is how it would be accepted "in general" rather than how all people or women would act.

I'm hoping we get a translation or scanlation for ch 3 soon. Has anyone else noticed that all the chapters so far have been longer than standard jumo chapters? Chapter 1 was 58 pages long, chapter 2 was 31, amd chapter 3 is 21. Aren't shonen jump chapters usually 18 pages?

And I've never heard of "Tomorrow's Joe". Apparantly that's Saiko's favorite manga...

Crude
August 29, 2008, 08:38 PM
The first two chapters of a series tend to be long, especially the first one since it serves as an introduction.

Maxy Barnard
August 30, 2008, 05:24 AM
ok third chapter proves it, this is retardedly sexist, even for shonen. its like 5 year olds scared of gettign cooties. this needs to buck up its ideas or die in a hole

haya5h1
August 30, 2008, 07:26 AM
Now in Baku-man, Azuki is praised for conforming to gender stereotypes such as "being pretty" and "not being too smart." Her aspirations are "being graceful and cute." Ambitious, right? The smartest girl in the class, Iwase, is apparently disliked for flaunting her intelligence; "The fact that she's proud of it is repulsive. I think she's stupid."
I'm wondering if that was meant to be "The fact that she's arrogant about it is repulsive." Because the art in that panel certainly suggests that the girl in question is arrogant, and arrogance for whatever reason is repulsive.

I think there might be some subtlety that's lost in the translation. I mean, Takagi is not exactly praising Azuki for being dumb or acting cute; he's praising her for being smart enough to be smart and to not put on airs about it, unlike Iwase. Also, I'm not sure that we're meant to admire Takagi, necessarily. Takagi may be the catalyst but he ain't a hero in my book till he proves that he can write a decent script:p
Also... dude, they're 14.


On the other hand it is perfectly fine for Takagi to be proud of his accomplishments, and he is admired.
But he doesn't act like he's better than everyone else, and that's the important distinction between him and Iwase.


The one that did it for me was "Men have dreams that women don't understand." I'm not even going to explain how condescending this statement is. Maybe somebody would like to defend and to clarify this sentence? Define the differences between men's aspirations and womens'?
Honestly, that line and the way she said it made me laugh so hard.XD I'm not saying I agree with how Mashiro's dad put it, but I didn't think it was offensive. I mean, it's true, men have crazy dreams that women can't understand.:XD

As for defining the difference between men's aspirations and women's, well... in that society, yes, a woman's aspirations ARE different from a man's. The ultimate aspiration for the majority of mothers is for their children to succeed in the world they live in, and being a manga-ka is not a path to that success. Such women tend to be in the majority, so it's not a surprise that Mashiro's dad would make such a sweeping generalization about men's and women's dreams in general.:XD

I don't expect that what I say will have any effect since you seem to have aready made up your mind about this series...but I just wanted to throw in the perspective of another woman.;)

I'm starting to find this manga kind of fun, actually. It's about following dreams, but at the same time the guys who are following those dreams are smart enough to know that they need a backup plan (both Takagi and Mashiro are studying hard to get good grades, though who knows how long that's gonna last with their new pursuit) And the fact that M is motivated solely (at this point) by wanting to marry Azuki? How cute is that?:XD

I guess the only criticism I have right now is how easily things are falling into place for the kids... that they're inheriting a treasure trove of priceless collectibles and manga archives that most manga-ka would kill to have when they're just starting out. But if Mashiro's dead uncle comes back as a spirit to guide them in the Way of Manga, I'ma gonna have to choke a bitch.:eyeroll

Labeler25
August 30, 2008, 08:13 AM
ok third chapter proves it, this is retardedly sexist, even for shonen. its like 5 year olds scared of gettign cooties. this needs to buck up its ideas or die in a hole

Hah, come on, no need to use sarcasm! :amuse And I wasn't criticizing the manga, just some aspects that I felt that I didn't agree with. Everyone has their own interpretations and that was mine...it's possible that I'm completely wrong or reading into things too much. I didn't want this to come across as a rant condemning the writer or Baku-man. I'm actually really enjoying this manga so far!
[hr]

I'm wondering if that was meant to be "The fact that she's arrogant about it is repulsive." Because the art in that panel certainly suggests that the girl in question is arrogant, and arrogance for whatever reason is repulsive.

That's possible, I also thought it could be interpreted that way. I think you may be right about the difference between him and Iwase.


I don't expect that what I say will have any effect since you seem to have aready made up your mind about this series...but I just wanted to throw in the perspective of another woman.;)

Why not? Just because I voiced my opinion on one aspect of the series doesn't mean I won't listen to anyone who thinks differently. The fact that I criticized something doesn't mean that I'm so insecure as to as to defend my statement no matter what, or be unable to admit that your opinion is valid and change my original views.

And hey, I admit that I might be completely wrong about this or at least overexaggerating. Maybe my first post sounded too serious or holier-than-thou. Overall I guess I just wanted to see what others thought.

Sherlock Holmes
August 30, 2008, 08:24 AM
I think they are going to make a manga about....people who want to become mangakas.
...but seriously though, "no rape, incurable diseases, pregnancy or any of that stuff" made laugh. A lot.
And the "gonna risk my life to draw manga" also made me laugh. A lot.

eni
August 30, 2008, 08:44 AM
Honestly, that line and the way she said it made me laugh so hard.XD
Yeah, me too. That's actually a reaction I know from my own family all to well. If the girls wanted something were the father objected on, the mother usually backed up ("You don't understand a young girl...") and vice versa.

Also the grumpy attitude of the mother when both, father and grandfather, agreed so easily, reminded me on myself. I hate it a lot when I tell something to my kids and than my bf turns it around with different opinion.


I guess the only criticism I have right now is how easily things are falling into place for the kids... that they're inheriting a treasure trove of priceless collectibles and manga archives that most manga-ka would kill to have when they're just starting out. But if Mashiro's dead uncle comes back as a spirit to guide them in the Way of Manga, I'ma gonna have to choke a bitch.:eyeroll
Hahahaha, you spoke my thoughts. I have nothing to add :XD


Overall I guess I just wanted to see what others thought.
I saw a pretty extreme rant on this "sexism" topic over at another forum and was very surprised by the reactions (especially seeing that it mostly came from male users). The main characters are still very young and the way they talk reflects the thoughts of boys that age well, in a funny way. They're maybe geniuses at school, but as every teenager they have not really a clue about the other gender. And how often do I read negative comments on shoujo from our male members? It's so very typical boy-ish, maybe it hurts to find the own self reflecting and so you miss seeing the sarcasm in it? >.>

I think readers should start seeing it as what it is: a comedy/parody shounen manga - it's not Death Note and it has (so far) no intention to become a deep and overall realistic story.

But it points out cliches in a way that make me laugh. And the wide gap between shoujo and shounen IS a cliche which is shown by this manga from the male perspective. I don't expect it to praise woman instead it's more fun seeing the *real* thoughts. But I can now easily imagine Naruto's mangaka as a teenager, planning his own story based merely on his Dragonball experience - "masculine manga" - ROFL :XD
They still have a lot to learn and I hope they meet other mangaka during their journey, showing different demographics and genre. For the time being, I see a lot of potential in this manga and I hope Ohba&Obata will make use of it.

Succubus
August 30, 2008, 09:25 AM
interesting... author of Ashita no Joes bro who committed suicide in 1984 (he has disease like dat van gogh)... so he is mangaka too

I think dats what happened to saikos uncle

p.s. it makes me wat to rewatch Ashita no Joe ><.. its great anime

Sexy Randal 105
August 30, 2008, 10:44 AM
I actually liked the third chapter a lot. I'm surprised that Hokuto no ken wasn't mentioned. I don't know why this is getting so much flack. Sorry it's about a topic that hasn't been done in Jump before. People are just mad it's not what they expected. I will admit, they could've chosen a better topic, but it's not BAD. I am starting to think that later when they develop their manga we might see the story switching off between their manga and the real world. That'd be pretty cool.

Maxy Barnard
August 30, 2008, 01:56 PM
i was actually serious abotu the sexism thing, it takes away from the story itself which is fun outside of it. big fuck up there.

and randal, no-one's questioning the subject matter that much, most are glad to have it all laid out on how some manga making can work (with a fair amount of liberties taken with the uncles studio and equipment all being there for them)

kewl0210
August 30, 2008, 04:26 PM
Like I was trying to say, they're trying to make the story realistic, and you need to take in things like "what the majority is" and "what stands out" if you want to make an interesting story. And I think you're really overreacting to actually say it's sexist. Of course shoujo manga is about stuff like sex and rape and such that he was talking about.

As for the studio thing, I think that's cool. This manga will probably last a while, and they'll probably get older. Seeing as their goal is to become an anime in 4 years. It's still in the beginning, I'd like to see where he takes it. There's going to be a lot more complexity to the story as it goes along.

eni
August 30, 2008, 04:49 PM
This manga will probably last a while, and they'll probably get older.
That would be really nice. I loved HnG especially because Hikaru aged through the entire series, from a 12 years old to a young man. Manga settings like this are more interesting for me to read than going with the same age over years for the teenage protagonist.

Since the two main characters here start at an early age as well, I have hope for a similar development.

haya5h1
August 30, 2008, 10:53 PM
i was actually serious abotu the sexism thing, it takes away from the story itself which is fun outside of it. big fuck up there.
Can you be more specific about which particular element you find to be sexist or degrading to women in the previous chapter? I'm not calling you out, I'm just wondering if I missed something. Like I said on lj, I'm not really expecting these male Japanese 9th-graders to be feministically enlightened defenders of equal opportunity... because dude, they're 14. Or are you talking about how Mashiro and Takagi are stereotypically clueless about girls... I suppose there's some sexism to be found there.:XD

Because honestly, so far? I think that it's the opposite of sexist, in that the only person in the entire manga so far who's taken concrete steps to achieve a dream is Azumi. She's already started sending audition tapes to pro agencies.


This manga will probably last a while, and they'll probably get older.
I want to see these two kids grow up too... hell, I just want to see them go to a comics event at least and get their eyes opened.:XD

Maxy Barnard
August 31, 2008, 05:15 AM
i dunno, maybe it's just how i've been raised, but at 14 i wasn't as clueless about girls to their degree. the last chapter was worse, but this was just irksome to me. but as people keep saying, i should take it with a grain of salt, cultural gap and all that.

I'm just all for some sort of thing where this attitude is approached in their attempt to make a manga nad proves troublesome. it'd be an interesting plot point

kaloo
August 31, 2008, 05:28 AM
Did I miss something in the last chapter? I mean I know they were being all "Manly Stuff!" but that's not really sexist. That's just two excited crazy kids. Hell me and my friends do shit like that and we're 17...

Elyon A. Luna
August 31, 2008, 10:43 AM
I think some people are taking a harsh view on the topic, these two are just beginning to soak in the ways of life.

I mean, Saiko was all sure about where he was going to drive his life into, and in a single evening it all took a really 360 turn for him (Look also how we haven't passed beyond the second day since story began. The story's pace.. well, I hope it doesn't become extremely slow.. or at least makes the slowness worht =D)

And Shujin, didn't even imagine what being a mangaka really is and means (Saiko did get a lesson there as well)


I'm looking forward to see what a "name" does Shu comes out with. And his drawing abilities?

LOL, it'll be funny to see "stick people" like most of us can do

(Please don't whip me there, but it is a common find. Though I can copy simplistic drawings decently..:darn)

Kaim
August 31, 2008, 02:45 PM
I think some people are taking a harsh view on the topic, these two are just beginning to soak in the ways of life.

I mean, Saiko was all sure about where he was going to drive his life into, and in a single evening it all took a really 360 turn for him (Look also how we haven't passed beyond the second day since story began. The story's pace.. well, I hope it doesn't become extremely slow.. or at least makes the slowness worht =D)

And Shujin, didn't even imagine what being a mangaka really is and means (Saiko did get a lesson there as well)


I'm looking forward to see what a "name" does Shu comes out with. And his drawing abilities?

LOL, it'll be funny to see "stick people" like most of us can do

(Please don't whip me there, but it is a common find. Though I can copy simplistic drawings decently..:darn)

Wouldn't a 360 turn mean that he ended up on the same track as before? ;)


This manga isn't really what I expected from that authors of Death Note. But I must say that I'm really into it. I hope it will last for a long time.

Labeler25
August 31, 2008, 04:15 PM
i was actually serious abotu the sexism thing, it takes away from the story itself which is fun outside of it. big fuck up there.

Ah I apologise...I am not the best at understanding when someone is or isn't being sarcastic in forums :darn

Anyhow the main thing that confused me in chapter 2 about the "men have dreams that women don't understand" is that...aren't there female mangaka out there?

bax
August 31, 2008, 04:21 PM
Anyhow the main thing that confused me in chapter 2 about the "men have dreams that women don't understand" is that...aren't there female mangaka out there?


Ah actually it's a really common line ^^;
I don't think the line actually is targeted to divide the gender, it's just to put on an emphasize on something.

It's more like saying that there are things about men that women don't understand. Principle-wise I guess (ie: Why men push themselves in certain situations, etc). It's almost the same with something like "I have to do this no matter what the outcome is", with no one else around him can understand why he did it.

In the context, it's more like the grandfather told his daughter that she can't understand what her son was thinking and want to achieve, given the fact that his uncle a mangaka too (and a failed one too). She was just probably being skeptical about it - Why be a mangaka while he has a failed example.

Sherbetmayhem
September 01, 2008, 07:44 AM
This manga has made an awesome start - I'm so pleased by the artistry and the dialogue. It's got a lovely natural feel to it, and I can't wait for more!

To those who are offended... I'm not offended! And I'm a woman ^_^ Chill - even if it WAS sexist, the character is allowed to express himself in any way he likes, and it's ridiculous to take offence at the words of a fictional character. His nature is part of what makes him a well rounded character - take Shikamaru from Naruto. He's pretty sexist ('Women are troublesome' or 'I'm not fighting a girl!') but that's part of his charm :) Stop getting so easily offended peoples :)

So bring on more Bakuman! I can't wait :amuse

Austeria
September 02, 2008, 12:43 AM
This manga has made an awesome start - I'm so pleased by the artistry and the dialogue. It's got a lovely natural feel to it, and I can't wait for more!

To those who are offended... I'm not offended! And I'm a woman ^_^ Chill - even if it WAS sexist, the character is allowed to express himself in any way he likes, and it's ridiculous to take offence at the words of a fictional character. His nature is part of what makes him a well rounded character - take Shikamaru from Naruto. He's pretty sexist ('Women are troublesome' or 'I'm not fighting a girl!') but that's part of his charm :) Stop getting so easily offended peoples :)

So bring on more Bakuman! I can't wait :amuse
I wholeheartedly agree with you. :thumbs

I don't get why people could get so worked up over these so-called sexist lines. First of all, these characters are 14 year old boys talking to each other with nobody around. They're not trying to be sexist or derogatory in any way, they're just being honest in what they feel about this one particular girl. And I couldn't even find anything sexist about them discussing the girl's tendency to prefer being an "average" girl. So many people in this world have that very same mentality: "normal is best"... I found nothing weird about it.

The only one that people might find sexist would probably be the line "Men have dreams women can't understand" by Saiko's dad. I came across as rude, but it was just him pointing out Saiko's mom's inability to understand Saiko's dream. We say things like "guys... :eyeroll" or "girls... :eyeroll" all the time. Why is that not sexist? Because the fact remains that men and women are different. That line could very well be "Women have dreams men can't understand" and it would still be very true.

This all coming from a girl. Stop being overly sensitive, seriously.

Labeler25
September 02, 2008, 12:14 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with you. :thumbs

I don't get why people could get so worked up over these so-called sexist lines. First of all, these characters are 14 year old boys talking to each other with nobody around. They're not trying to be sexist or derogatory in any way, they're just being honest in what they feel about this one particular girl. And I couldn't even find anything sexist about them discussing the girl's tendency to prefer being an "average" girl. So many people in this world have that very same mentality: "normal is best"... I found nothing weird about it.

The only one that people might find sexist would probably be the line "Men have dreams women can't understand" by Saiko's dad. I came across as rude, but it was just him pointing out Saiko's mom's inability to understand Saiko's dream. We say things like "guys... :eyeroll" or "girls... :eyeroll" all the time. Why is that not sexist? Because the fact remains that men and women are different. That line could very well be "Women have dreams men can't understand" and it would still be very true.

This all coming from a girl. Stop being overly sensitive, seriously.

I have never said that I felt offended. I was merely expressing the fact that I disagreed with the lines that I mentioned. This was not a matter of sensitivity, just a matter of varying perspectives. Also, my criticism did not imply that I was attacking the manga itself...I can just as well say that you should stop being so defensive of Baku-man, seriously. I don't think their age is an excuse, but that's one person's opinion, and so is yours. We all have different views; we are both right and wrong depending on how you look at it.

Sariachan
September 02, 2008, 12:49 PM
I only read the first chapter so far, and I loved it.

Do you know if some group is making scanlations of this manga?

ssjohn
September 02, 2008, 02:25 PM
When i first read chapter one i thought it was okay but it didn't captivate me, when i read chapter 2/3 i fell in love.

I am a little bit disappointed that it isn't a complex dramatic series (Come on Death note but instead of just writing the name you have to draw a manga scene ? :P)) but it is really good and something i hope will last for years to come. (I HOPE it will last i dunno if it will and the way jump readers seem to be with new series kinda scares me lol.)

It is giving us some insight into the creation of manga's and alot of stuff I didn't know (like what manuscripts look like and such).

Sexy Randal 105
September 02, 2008, 09:49 PM
I think the sexism is more realistic. Boys that age don't really like girly things like that. Not every person in the world is politically correct. This is JUMP anyway.

hyorinmaru
September 04, 2008, 02:55 AM
chapter 4 Pic

http://i38.tinypic.com/14njmz5.jpg

Maxy Barnard
September 04, 2008, 04:46 AM
Okay that's a hardcore cover!

Sherlock Holmes
September 04, 2008, 11:45 AM
That's a death notish cover.

Maxy Barnard
September 04, 2008, 12:10 PM
big grins, pens and a cartoony explosion?

so death note

Sherlock Holmes
September 04, 2008, 03:56 PM
big grins, pens and a cartoony explosion?

so death note
I was joking based on the fact that I have insisted that everything in this manga is death notish, but seriously, the light behind them do look kinda of death notish. Or maybe it's just me.

kewl0210
September 06, 2008, 12:38 AM
Chapter 4 was pretty good. I could understand most of it. Uh...
I dunno if I should post spoilers on it at this point since it's not translated.
Azuki's mother is the girl that Saiko's uncle longed after. They figure this out by looking at a yearbook, they also find the old correspondence letters. They go and meet her at her house and talk to her, she's still pretty as she was in high school even though she's 42, she looks a lot like azuki. She said that she did like Saiko's uncle, but they were both too embarassed to say anything. So she eventually got a new love. She heard he had gotten an anime and was happy for him.

More stuff happens, but it's harder to figure our or remember. It's pretty good. This chapter is 25 pages, too. They're all a lot longer than normal, but I looked through some other mangas, and I think the mangakas switch up how many pages they do per issue. D.Gray-man has done 15-17 page chapters. Bleach and OP have 19 page chapters. Naruto has 17 page chapters. Most have 19, but it does change a bit.

sylvira
September 07, 2008, 11:23 AM
Honestly, this is the best new series that we've had in a while in Jump. Let's just hope they don't decide to cut it short, like they have done with so many series. -facepalm-

and to answer kewl0210's question, it's fine that you posted spoilers, because you put it under a cut. orz People need to do that more often. And the length is always kinda long at the beginning, and then when the serialization hits full stride it should come down to under 20 pages a chapter.

Kibate
September 07, 2008, 07:47 PM
actually most mangas in shonen jump start with more than 19 pages then are getting cut down to 19 after some chapters. If they are not doing well they are getting cut again to 17 pages after some years.

Austeria
September 07, 2008, 09:26 PM
actually most mangas in shonen jump start with more than 19 pages then are getting cut down to 19 after some chapters. If they are not doing well they are getting cut again to 17 pages after some years.
Naruto gets 17 pages pretty much every issue and I doubt you could say that the series is "not doing well".

kewl0210
September 08, 2008, 10:19 AM
I was just makign a point that different mangas do different amounts of pages. It's not correlated with how well they're doing or anything. That and by chapter 4 of all the other mangas I've read, they've gotten to < 20 pages. This one is still at 25.

Sexy Randal 105
September 08, 2008, 08:07 PM
The fact that the one girl's mom was the girl that his uncle was in love with kind of bothered me. It was kind of like an "Only in manga" coincidence.

kewl0210
September 08, 2008, 08:27 PM
It's DNA, DNA!!! There's all kinda of logic to it. They're similar people attracted in a similar way.
I thought it made sense, though it IS a manga... all Shounen mangas involve the main character having some special ability or something.

Agrias
September 08, 2008, 08:41 PM
It was reeeeally cliche...at first i was kinda disappointed, but then i thought "oh well, sugar is nice.". I hope we can get a good plot twist though...

haya5h1
September 09, 2008, 06:35 AM
weeelllll.... from the writer of Death Note, I wouldn't really expect anything else:XD

I love how the moral of the story seems to be that all men are hopeless romantics. Hoping this won't be taken the wrong way by the readers who are still in the "eww, girls" phase, though.

Quetz
September 09, 2008, 12:59 PM
It would be interesting if they ended up attempting a seinen instead of a shounen. There's nothing really going on in this manga, and yet I find myself excited to read it when it comes out each time. It's very strange...

sylvira
September 10, 2008, 12:26 AM
Well, I think you're excited because they're building up the beginning so they can get to the real meat of this story. And well, it's the DN mangakas. You can count on them to do a good job.

Sexy Randal 105
September 10, 2008, 01:51 PM
If this was Death Note, there would've been ten plot twists already.

alexlw92
September 11, 2008, 02:35 AM
deathnote evolved. it went from light as a student, to light as a killer, to innocent light, back to psycho light, to detective light, and then to dead light xD

and bakuman has a lot of room to evolve. all theyve given us so far is 2 wannabe mangakas. they can go a lot of directions from there

and isnt the azuki mother-daughter thing already a plot twist?

Sariachan
September 11, 2008, 09:09 AM
Any group scanlating this?

Quetz
September 11, 2008, 10:01 AM
deathnote evolved. it went from light as a student, to light as a killer, to innocent light, back to psycho light, to detective light, and then to dead light xD

and bakuman has a lot of room to evolve. all theyve given us so far is 2 wannabe mangakas. they can go a lot of directions from there

and isnt the azuki mother-daughter thing already a plot twist?

I can get behind that. As long as its going somewhere and has the capacity for a good one or two hundred chapter manga, I'll keep reading.

And the mother-daughter thing was a pretty weak twist, imo.

Sexy Randal 105
September 11, 2008, 10:32 PM
I am still waiting for the Jump editor to show up as the villain.

Sherlock Holmes
September 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
I am still waiting for the Jump editor to show up as the villain.
And I'm still waiting for the rival mangaka with the pen name L.

kewl0210
September 11, 2008, 11:07 PM
For some reason there were no spoilers this week, I've been watching the 2ch thread...
Oh well, the raw should show up soon now anyway.

Sexy Randal 105
September 12, 2008, 04:31 PM
I wonder if interest has dwindled.

deadberry
September 13, 2008, 10:17 AM
there were several spoiler pics on 2ch earlier this week lol...

kewl0210
September 13, 2008, 04:33 PM
There were it seems, but no one posted them on here at the time and I didn't look far enough back it seems.

I hope this gets scanlated faster than last week's.

pirate-hitman:L
September 13, 2008, 11:02 PM
It's still not out?
I want to see their sketches!

alexlw92
September 14, 2008, 01:51 AM
well, looks like we got the equivalent of an L now

Sexy Randal 105
September 14, 2008, 10:37 AM
well, looks like we got the equivalent of an L now

Hahahha I wasn't the only one who thought that.

I have a theory that they will unveil what their manga is about in Chapter 8. It would be a great cliffhanger for the end of the first volume. =P

Agrias
September 14, 2008, 10:43 AM
Hahaha I could only think about L too xD
Boring chapter...nothing happened. The lesson about pens was worth it though. xD

Sexy Randal 105
September 14, 2008, 11:18 AM
Be patient. Training arc. =P

eni
September 14, 2008, 11:40 AM
Be patient. Training arc. =P
*snort* :XD
But... but... he powers too fast up. Just look at his sketches - it already suffers Dragonball-syndrome. The pen will sparkle soon :XD

j/k

Though, he's a little overdoing it in praising the g-pen as the ultimative wonder weapon so much. I don't like drawing with it as well, it's too ... ehm... smooth for my drawing style or... eh... could also be because I have a bad wrist (bandaged up a few times each year) and can't move the arm like everyone. The saji-pen works best for my main lineart but I can see that g-pen is something a shounen mangaka would pick >.>

Maxy Barnard
September 14, 2008, 12:47 PM
really i think this is a guide to budding mangakas more than a real manga in itself. just shrouded in story. i mean advising stories to read and what pens best?

still, loving that aspect

kewl0210
September 14, 2008, 01:24 PM
It's going to be a slow paced manga, and they've got to develope more content into it or else it's gonna be 10 chapters long. I like how it is now, it doesn't make it seem like it's trying to push through major events every issue and it doesn't seem like it's stalling for time by putting in unimportant information. Though it'll probably get more of that as things go on.

Sexy Randal 105
September 15, 2008, 09:37 PM
I still say it reminds me of Hikaru no go in atmosphere.

bigtymer32
September 16, 2008, 04:12 PM
yeah theres so many directions they can go and i'm sure there will be more characters add.has the new chapter came out yet or am i just late :(

Sexy Randal 105
September 16, 2008, 08:50 PM
I still say they will probably integrate a two-stories in one approach when we start learning about the story of what I assume their manga, "Bakuman" will be about. Or at least I am gonna assume that's the title.

haya5h1
September 18, 2008, 10:12 AM
Baku-man... Bak-man... BATMAN?!:XD
...but then it's got to have a strong female character so that Azuki can have a big part in it.

Sherlock Holmes
September 18, 2008, 04:21 PM
Baku-man... Bak-man... BATMAN?!:XD
...but then it's got to have a strong female character so that Azuki can have a big part in it.
.....Even if the main character is a man, Azuki can voice him.
It's not who he is underneath. But what he does, that defines him.

...seriously though, there are many male characters voiced by female voice actresses.

kewl0210
September 18, 2008, 06:09 PM
Most kids are voiced by girls, unless they have a deep voice.
Here are a few I can think of off the top of my head:
Luffy, Naruto, Allen Walker, Goku, Edward Elric.

kaloo
September 18, 2008, 08:40 PM
*for some reason just thought of a five years old boy going "Hello" in a mega deep voice.* They probably will have a heroine in the story thoguh and that's probably who she'll play.

Sexy Randal 105
September 18, 2008, 09:39 PM
Baku-man... Bak-man... BATMAN?!:XD
...but then it's got to have a strong female character so that Azuki can have a big part in it.

Their manga will be called "The Dark Knight."

Genius.

kewl0210
September 20, 2008, 12:09 AM
For anyone anxious to see the next chapter, chapter 6, here is the chinese scanlation. I haven't found a raw anywhere...

http://rapidshare.com/files/146769962/Bakuman_6_Chinese.zip.html

fizban
September 20, 2008, 07:54 PM
Mashiro was fortunate that he didn't ask for Takagi's third idea, a hardcore yaoi series starring the two of them.

He even drew some stick figure sketches to show how it would work.

deadberry
September 21, 2008, 04:50 AM
another good chapter I thought, nicely paced, some good moments and good plot advancement.

EL_manana
September 21, 2008, 06:33 AM
this chapter was the first one that I truly enjoyed. Well, this manga is going to be cool even if it keeps the current pace without any big plot twists. As long as it helps me to get deeper into the world of manga creation I am satisfied. though Azuki girl annoys me. and the whole romance line too.
And I am quite disappointed with the art style. Of course it is gorgeous in comparison to SOME other mangas, but Death Note was much more impressive in my opinion. The faces, emotions and movements were pictured much nicer.
By the way, I've just read some posts about the over-sexism in Bakuman, but well, I thought it is quite a common thing in shonen mangas. at least I feel I'm kinda used to it.^^

Maxy Barnard
September 21, 2008, 12:33 PM
Good chapter. established that the story ideas being created will have power behind them (though the two planets one screams hoshin engi/dragon drive for some reason.

Quetz
September 22, 2008, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't mind reading that twin earth manga, stuff like that tends to be either really awesome or really horrible.

Another strong chapter, for all the same reasons again (kept me into the story while still nothing really happened lol). Word on the street (Otaku cafe) is that bakuman isn't yet ranked in the TOC, what's the deal with that?

Maxy Barnard
September 22, 2008, 05:22 AM
Ah, you're still quite fresh to the inner workings of jump....... hoow best to summarise.

it'll be ranked by chapter 8.

it takes 8 weeks for a series to be officially ranked, judged by the fan mail, editors choices, and the survey postcards included in every issue of WSJ, amongst other factors.

so basically after that point if it dips or spikes, you know why. if it stays in the middle then it has an acceptable fanbase (see Mago, usually)

haya5h1
September 22, 2008, 08:38 AM
The art seems like a throwback to Hikaru no Go. Death Note was hyper-realistic, but this one really reminds me of when Hikaru was still a punk in short pants. and wait, have Ohba and Obata managed to sneak a shojo into Jump?:XD

Looking forward to seeing what they do with the Double Earths concept. The title made me do a double take though, I wonder if the word about Double Arts' cancellation had reached the other Jump manga-kas at that point... apparently Gintama did a snarky reference in this week's chapter too.

*ninjas back on topic* I wonder if the nightmare editor was someone one of the O's worked with personally? It sounds so plausible.:XD

deadberry
September 22, 2008, 05:10 PM
a little thought struck me earlier whilst being too nerdy about release days of various magazines vs the time we often get material. Would you be interested in seeing the online spoiler/scanning topic come up in baku-man at all?

kewl0210
September 22, 2008, 05:14 PM
Ya know, I've been looking for spoilers but I'm not seeing them in 2ch's spoiler thread for it...

This is the current one:
http://changi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/wcomic/1221931073/

Sexy Randal 105
September 22, 2008, 09:21 PM
I don't care what anyone says. This manga is really interesting. Ohba's as great as writing conversations as ever.

Muddy
September 26, 2008, 04:56 PM
Looking forward to seeing what they do with the Double Earths concept. The title made me do a double take though, I wonder if the word about Double Arts' cancellation had reached the other Jump manga-kas at that point... apparently Gintama did a snarky reference in this week's chapter too.

Probably. Especially when you consider that in the katakana, there is only one character of difference:

Double Arts = ダブルアーツ
Double Earths = ダブルアース

I wonder whether we can glean from this that more veteran mangaka in Jump had been rooting for Komi Naoshi. Or perhaps DA was hyped even more than we supposed at the offices so that it was simply still on everyone's minds. But who knows; we won't be able to find out.

descendant
September 28, 2008, 07:20 AM
this manga is so interesting
although i'm a manga freak i still don't really know how manga is actually produced until i read this :sweatbunny
awww i can't wait for next chapter :dance

Agrias
September 28, 2008, 01:55 PM
1st time i can say i'm really excited for the next chapter. :3

Sexy Randal 105
September 28, 2008, 07:29 PM
It is a lot more interesting now that something happened in the plot. I knew it'd pick up. I hope it sticks around for a while.

shinigamikender
October 01, 2008, 02:12 AM
1st time i can say i'm really excited for the next chapter. :3

Well, I can't say it's the first time, but I'm incredibly excited for next week's chapter.

Although I really mostly can't wait until we finally see the other rival manga artist. It's killing me that we haven't seen him yet.

Sherlock Holmes
October 01, 2008, 05:57 PM
Well, I can't say it's the first time, but I'm incredibly excited for next week's chapter.

Although I really mostly can't wait until we finally see the other rival manga artist. It's killing me that we haven't seen him yet.
...He looks just like L.
Damn I spoiled the next chapters! I just broke one of the three laws of time travel!
DAMN!

...Seriously though, I want to see the rival mangaka too.

Muddy
October 02, 2008, 07:02 AM
Hah, awesome chapter. I'm loving this series more every week. The characters are great.

Lohnt
October 02, 2008, 09:17 PM
I started reading this, and I really like it.

This is one of the very few non-violent-action manga's I can tolerate. I really hope it sticks around.

sylvira
October 03, 2008, 09:13 PM
Agreed! I look forward to the next chapter.

Sherlock Holmes
October 04, 2008, 02:02 AM
Did I miss this week's chapter or something?

shinigamikender
October 04, 2008, 02:13 AM
Did I miss this week's chapter or something?

Nope. Looks like the raws for it are a little later than usual this week.

Agrias
October 04, 2008, 08:41 AM
Chapter is out ^^

Takagi's flashback was meh...i felt like it was kinda misplaced, and it did not add much depth to the character. He's still my favourite though. <3

And here i was thinking they were going to fail miserably...but it seems their editor is a loser, by the way the other ones were making fun of him =p Are we going on the "young boys + loser = success" route? =p
Ah, there was a huge announcement..."This guys will have a fight in the future and they'll break up the team, just wait~~"...:/

Ah, can't wait to see Eiji :3


And about the desks thing...reminded me of fanfiction, so sugary and cliche, but makes my fangirl heart happy. xD

ttxdragon
October 04, 2008, 09:06 AM
Eh? I liked Takagis flashback, it didn't add too much but it helped to set the stage for upcoming character development. Better than getting everything served at once, right? :p

The editors eyes were creepy o.O
But yeah, the story lineout we were given about Double Earth was interesting so I doubted they made it a 'total fail'. On the other hand, I was impressed once again about the approach and how it really doesn't seem to 'get out of hand'. Since it's in constant danger of becoming extremely unrealistic. After all, it's a WSJ manga >.<
The editors words were pretty nice and added insight, though it was pretty logical if you think about it =3 The best stories are those that the author loves to do, unless it's a genius calculating everything into the story. =D

And yesh, agrias, the desk thing <3 So cliche, but somehow... great xD makes me think that this manga might've landed in the wrong magazine though xD It almost seems as if the Double-O team wants to put the secondary focus on romance, not that I mind :amuse

EL_manana
October 04, 2008, 03:38 PM
I loved Takagis flashback. It shows perfectly one more time in what kind of system people live in Japan. They've been talking a lot about it, especially Mashiro - it is almost insane to make an unusual future life choice, you should totally fit in the plan of a SYSTEM and if you don't keep pace even at one period of your life like school or university, you fail miserably and your future is doomed. So we can see another struggle against the System and I think it is great. I like Takagi's character the most now.
And yeah, you can totally see that this manga is written by professionals. Even if we can see some hints to future development appearing, it doesn't ruin the impression at all. I guess everyone is bored with comparisons with DeathNote already but this chapter was the one that gave me the same feeling as DeathNote. The authors give us wonderful dialogs and manage to get us caught in words. I loved how the editor (he is sooo creepy) stated his opinion.
Oh, please not romance... I don't like Mashiro much and I am slowly starting to HATE Azuki. And I don't like when romance gets too obvious in shonen-manga. Subtle way is better- gives you some doubts and hopes so that you begin to search for signs and become so happy when you find them... But well, it is easy to make it "subtle" in unrealistic mangas with world destruction and wars. Here it is like real life, so... At least here you can feel some sincerity not like in DeathNote.

kaloo
October 04, 2008, 08:18 PM
The idea that the friends will break up is true, but the fact is that they aren't really friends(well they are fast developing a friendship). They are friends specifically because they are making the manga together.

EL_manana
October 04, 2008, 08:44 PM
I think that they are good friends already. They weren't in the beginning but they became friends after they decided to make manga together. Very good friends since Takagi didn't even mind telling Mashiro such personal stuff as his past and his partly insane mother.

pirate-hitman:L
October 04, 2008, 09:47 PM
I loved this week's chapter. The desk part at the end was awesome.
Oh, and the Editor part felt like it was based off actual experience.

Neji2112
October 04, 2008, 10:56 PM
i'm going waaay out on a limb here, and maybe it's already been said... but im almost thinking that Bakuman is something almost like a dramatization of how the two of them (the creators) started their manga careers and they used their experiences in the past to give the story it's direction, and added side stories to keep it from being boring i guess.

it's a pretty good series over-all (not quite DA imo, but still good.) i hope it does well in the future.

Sexy Randal 105
October 04, 2008, 11:33 PM
I liked the over dramatic facial shading. XD

RealMonkey
October 05, 2008, 04:39 AM
Dont know where i should post fanart or colorings from bakuman. I made a colo. But first i have to say it was a very good chapter imo. The Editor seems very trustfull to me, cause he says they will be better than the other one in three years. Hope it turns out good. I liked the idea of shujin for that bilnd pitcher manga, too. Bakuman is really nice to read. :D You could really call me a fanboy i think.

here the colo

http://livingdragon.deviantart.com/art/Bakuman-99809823

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/688/bakumankopie3cf1.th.png (http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bakumankopie3cf1.png)http://img386.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

hope you like it. Its from first chapter page 24

haya5h1
October 05, 2008, 05:12 AM
I'm gonna say it's more like an amalgamation of a bunch of manga creators' experiences - maybe stories that Oba collected over the years or something. Although I'll bet real money Obata has had that "your art looks more like designs than manga" line handed to him before:XD

Of the two types described by the editor, this is a very calculated manga:XD It's got all the hot-button elements required for a successful shonen. and is even paced so that it can wrap up quickly if they get cancelled within the first six months. I would even say that it's calculated to appeal to the OEL market with its po-mo industry perspective - who, besides comics otaku, would really care about this topic?;)

Maxy Barnard
October 05, 2008, 12:41 PM
well yeah it seems calculated, and as such is a mid ranger already instead of success XD

this is steadily climbing in my favourites, pretty much because of the editor from this week. a failure who needs a hit but seems to be young and calm minded enough to see talent heading his way. gotta love it

Quetz
October 05, 2008, 04:13 PM
I love this series. The editor introduced in this week seems to be pretty sure of them, but he's also smart enough to not make a big deal about it in front of them. This is easily my most anticipated manga for each week.

Sexy Randal 105
October 08, 2008, 09:27 PM
Funny, Death Note seemed calculated too. Ohba admitted he did it as he went along though.

I still say it reminds me a lot of Hikaru no Go. It has the same exact tone.

Lohnt
October 10, 2008, 03:53 AM
So, what happened? The 8 'trial' issues were published, and now it's time for Jump to decide if they pick it up or not. Was it accepted or not? I really want it to be picked up, I consider it a success.

Maxy Barnard
October 10, 2008, 06:11 AM
that's not quite how it works. the first 8 weeks(not chapters) are just predetermined ranks in the table of contents, and after that it's given a rank representing it's favour with the editor, popularity, and general reception, usually through the mail in cards included with the anthology, fan letters, etc.

and the first rank was with chapter 7 which was mid range, chapter 8 picked itself up to a pretty good rank though (being number 5 out of the 13 ranked series that week (a top 5 position being strong))

haya5h1
October 11, 2008, 01:42 AM
so this week's would be the first real ranked chapter? Not too shabby...

Lohnt
October 11, 2008, 03:47 AM
Did issue 9 even come out this week? I can't seem to locate it.

Maxy Barnard
October 11, 2008, 03:47 AM
no, this week would be the SECOND rank (as it's 8 weeks til ranks, and bakuman came out in a double issue, so its gotten it one chapter earlier than ya'd think.

so whilst this week was good, last week was a low-middles rank which could occur again. bakuman could also enter the yoyo of bad to good over and over like love trouble

EDIT: be patient, it can take a while for raws to come out, and theres always a chance that the raws in the hands of a scanlator who won't release their raw publicly

Ultimatecalibur
October 11, 2008, 05:36 AM
It's Out! (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1063584&postcount=1) We have our Rival/Villain and his attitude looks to be very much like Lights.

lordofwar
October 11, 2008, 05:52 AM
i get the feeling that azuki is gonna end up going to the same high school as eiji and he's gonna fall for her.. i bet he also wants to cancel the manga that sakios uncle wrote..

Maxy Barnard
October 11, 2008, 06:07 AM
his attitude is a bit weird, he's someone with a childs mentality, and i'll be curious to see how jump affects that in the coming chapters. though i'm also curious what series he hates, or will hate (if its will hate it'll obviously be bakuman)

descendant
October 11, 2008, 08:18 AM
wow i wonder if this is somewhat based on a true life experience of the mangaka LOL
so this is how manga ends up serialized in JUMP huh

but i don't think some other author has the authority to end a manga made by others
or.. they can ?

anyway i don't like the rival's attitude. i hope they'll beat him. come on guys win the tezuka award!!!

alexlw92
October 11, 2008, 10:46 AM
i retract my statement on that eiji was L

eiji is near.

or mello

or a combination of bothe...

EL_manana
October 11, 2008, 01:16 PM
Mello 100%

Lohnt
October 11, 2008, 02:33 PM
Issue 9 was awesome!

I really want this series to stick around.

fizban
October 11, 2008, 08:12 PM
Saiko made a girl cry and Shujin used a telephone. These two are making great strides in their career as mangaka.

Eiji reminds me a lot of myself, and I kind of like it. It would be funny if a series like To-LOVE-Ru was cancelled the same week that his series was rated #1. You'd get pretty paranoid if something like that happened

Sherlock Holmes
October 12, 2008, 12:44 AM
..Saiko made a girl cry without even talking to her. I usually have to at least talk to them! Damn he is good.

And eiji is...Just...Weird. I hope he dies.

EL_manana
October 12, 2008, 10:50 AM
It would be funny if a series like To-LOVE-Ru was cancelled the same week that his series was rated #1. You'd get pretty paranoid if something like that happened
XDXD So true!
Eiji is ok. Though he is a character that makes a typical rival/vilian. He has a great talent but he doesn't work hard for it because it is all natural and his attitude is unpleasant and he is overconfident. So typical. In the end it becomes good guys VS bad guy. I loved Death Note because there all main characters were somewhat evil and unpleasant but had a lot of style. And I remember Hikaru no Go. There the main rival character was even more hard-working and as talented as the main hero and had his own dignity. That made their rivalship really interesting and every match was more like an act of friendship and you could not decide which side deserves the victory more. (usually the main hero deserved it less actually).
So I hope Eiji won't become a typical rival_bad_guy character

Sexy Randal 105
October 12, 2008, 10:58 AM
I am still confused about what a 'Name' is. I don't think it's just the title of the manga, right? Can someone clarify?

bunshindattebayo
October 12, 2008, 11:24 AM
I am still confused about what a 'Name' is. I don't think it's just the title of the manga, right? Can someone clarify?

It's somekind of a draft.

Sexy Randal 105
October 12, 2008, 02:15 PM
That's kind of misleading. I wish they just called it a draft. o____o

onno
October 12, 2008, 07:45 PM
the name would be a sketch of the manga, don't?
the name is the sketch, the manuscript would be like a pilot.

i am really enjoing this manga, can't wait to see them getting published.
:B

go go for the tezuka award!

eni
October 12, 2008, 08:28 PM
Ehm, no. A pilot is the very first chapter/episode of the final product.

A manuscript is still part of the creation process.

Sexy Randal 105
October 12, 2008, 09:56 PM
Too bad Ohba didn't clarify more.

Maxy Barnard
October 13, 2008, 03:13 AM
i think www.jumpland.com clarifies the whole 'name' business anyway, so i never really ended up in the dark over it

shinigamikender
October 15, 2008, 04:48 AM
The translation on Jumpland uses 'storyboard' for 'name', which makes it a little clearer.

AfterMath
October 18, 2008, 07:27 AM
this weeks chapter is really interesting, too bad they didn't get past the final 8 after their editor praise them so much.

Maxy Barnard
October 18, 2008, 02:26 PM
I think it's kept the series on a level though.

and i hate to say it but Komi Naoshi pops into my head looking at the rival mangakas tezuka winning work :O

sabret00the
October 18, 2008, 03:06 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how the coming chapters deal with things. i find it interesting that we need an improvement on the artwork based on style and yet WSJ's #1 is drawn more like disney than anything eastern. i also don't like the fact that shujin's grades are slipping.

fizban
October 18, 2008, 10:21 PM
Shujin is throwin' down and rollin' in the bitches. Word. His story idea this time was much more interesting to me than the Two Earths story.

Saiko has it pretty tough. While there could be many different stories that fit within the guideline of a "masculine" manga, there aren't as many options for the artwork. I always let out a little laugh when reading Hajime no Ippo because of how buff the guys are for people who are supposed to be featherweights, but they have to still keep those things within a realistic level.

It cracked me up when that shitty artist guy held up his own artwork. Shujin had said that all the guy ever draws are crappy headshots, which is exactly what we saw.

alexlw92
October 19, 2008, 12:15 AM
I think it's kept the series on a level though.

and i hate to say it but Komi Naoshi pops into my head looking at the rival mangakas tezuka winning work :O

T-T i miss double arts...

whats with how fast time goes by in this series? like, every chapter has a month or so timeskip...



oh, and...
i think a point of this series is that working together is better. like, their first manuscript was so-so, then shujin helped takagi with his story, and the story became awesome, so now takagis gonna help shujin with art?...

Destin82
October 19, 2008, 12:18 AM
Anybody sort of wish there was a manga about a super computer with a ranking system that could poison people on a whim. I was reading Bakukan thinking 'damn, give me about 300 chapters of that.' That being said, love Bakuman so far. Really hope it's not canceled as it's generally a complete change from most of the stuff in SJ.

magicbulletgirl
October 19, 2008, 03:16 AM
As this, and Bleach, are really the only two Jump manga's I read, I figured I might as well get involved writing something. Especially when I just finished going through this thread after I read the latest chapter.

Now, I don't want to beat a dead horse (though I don't think it is one) but I really do feel that Sugumi and Takeshi purposely put women on a second tier thought-wise and everything.

Let's just take Iwase for one. In the earlier chapters we hear how and see that she's "arrogant" (never mind the fact the manga-ka draws her this way) about how smart she is and "shows off". And yes, I completely recognize that this opinion are from two 14 year old boys but if Iwase is indeed so much different from the other girls in towards the way people perceive her, she wouldn't have gone over to Takagi's house. She'd be a modern girl for one thing and she wouldn't care to have a boyfriend or feel the need to have a staring contest (seeing who would stay the longest) with the other girl over Takagi. She'd know that she doesn't a guy for anything, she can support herself, get a job, etc.

So I'm very mad actually that we take this "smart girl" who's misunderstood and distorted by these stupid guys be put as "just another stupid girl" trying to get a boyfriend. It half reminds me of Takky and Misa fighting over Light.

And the worst part is that Sugumi and Takeshi have a history of knocking over women. They did it to Naomi, who so could have totally gotten Light, and now they're going to do it to Iwase who could be a so much deeper character.

Then there is Azuki. Why would she want to get married after she does the voice for Mashiro and Takagi's anime? Is that going to be the high point of her life? After she gets married, is she not work anymore and have her kids be her medal like Japanese society expects of married women instead of giving women more flexible daycare so they can have a real career?

The worst part is that through Takagi's story, they've already acknowledged that it's wrong that women place their hopes and dreams on their kids. The problem is they don't mention a solution to it at all like the one above. If women are expected to stay at home and take care of the kids then they're essentially nonpersons.

Cause I read through the comments, especially those of "women" who didn't feel there was anything sexist in this manga, and I've just got to ask, did you seriously not think so, or are you letting it slide because this is Japanese?

(In before "you're just not getting the culture" - yeah I am and it's bad for women. Why do you think women aren't having kids right now in Japan when the single life ensures them a happier lifestyle?)

eni
October 19, 2008, 06:16 AM
Cause I read through the comments, especially those of "women" who didn't feel there was anything sexist in this manga, and I've just got to ask, did you seriously not think so, or are you letting it slide because this is Japanese?

(In before "you're just not getting the culture" - yeah I am and it's bad for women. Why do you think women aren't having kids right now in Japan when the single life ensures them a happier lifestyle?)
I seriously don't feel that this manga is any more "sexists" as other stories about/for teenage boys. That doesn't even need to be manga. On the opposite, literature for girls has it's stereotypical view on boys too.

As for the "Japanese single women", that's an effect you can see allover the world atm. It's just piercing the eyes especially when it's about Asia countries as those have a "speed development" on modern society. You feel like it's "more extreme" but it's the very same development as Western countries have since a long time, we just have it stretched while they catch up in a nutshell.

magicbulletgirl
October 19, 2008, 10:22 AM
I seriously don't feel that this manga is any more "sexists" as other stories about/for teenage boys. That doesn't even need to be manga. On the opposite, literature for girls has it's stereotypical view on boys too.

As for the "Japanese single women", that's an effect you can see allover the world atm. It's just piercing the eyes especially when it's about Asia countries as those have a "speed development" on modern society. You feel like it's "more extreme" but it's the very same development as Western countries have since a long time, we just have it stretched while they catch up in a nutshell.

I never proposed that some shojo mangas were sexist against boys in their own right, but how is it that the author of Fruits Basket can paint a very even picture of relationships, without bashing any sex, while these two seem to feel they do?
And the argument of letting this slide just because the other "side" does it too doesn't work. It doesn't change anything.
I read a lot of shonen manga, and I never feel half as offended as I do when I read this sometimes. Mainly because sure they can push forward those qualities of what a guy is/should be without bashing women in the process.

Also, a BIG difference in the way those qualities are presented is that in mangas like Detective Conan, and Bleach - the author makes it clear that any negative qualities attributed are only about the character and not the whole spectrum of the gender, as where we have Takagi saying "women are" and "girls do this". (though I am sure some of these lines exist in Bleach, I have yet to come across them).

As for the "Japanese single woman" effect, yes that is something going around a lot and it is a made a big deal of in Japan and other non-western countries because there is still isn't that change of thought and the manga reflects this.

Maxy Barnard
October 19, 2008, 10:47 AM
actually as a dude who loves shojo, i found something really plain and overly safe in fruits basket, an indication that some level of segregation can make a better series. and bakuman.... well it's stepped away from all the sexism issue to me, and is more about the dudes doing their manga. though time will tell with the last developments as to whether it's escaped such bondage

eni
October 19, 2008, 11:05 AM
I never proposed that some shojo mangas were sexist against boys in their own right, but how is it that the author of Fruits Basket can paint a very even picture of relationships, without bashing any sex, while these two seem to feel they do?
The author of Fruit Basket may do (I haven't read that one) but several others don't. There are plenty of very stereotypical views on boys in shoujo manga as well. Most them aren't really offending but that's part of shoujo's nature which usually isn't aggressive in it's wordings as much as literature aimed towards male readers.


And the argument of letting this slide just because the other "side" does it too doesn't work. It doesn't change anything.
Why shouldn't it work? That's simply how gender interact among themselves and with each other. Guys joke about girls and girls joke about guys, a very normal routine. I've seen worse things in seinen manga were the mangaka just focused on the breast not the brain >.>;


I read a lot of shonen manga, and I never feel half as offended as I do when I read this sometimes. Mainly because sure they can push forward those qualities of what a guy is/should be without bashing women in the process.

Also, a BIG difference in the way those qualities are presented is that in mangas like Detective Conan, and Bleach - the author makes it clear that any negative qualities attributed are only about the character and not the whole spectrum of the gender, as where we have Takagi saying "women are" and "girls do this". (though I am sure some of these lines exist in Bleach, I have yet to come across them).
Hm, just because other shounen don't say it directly doesn't mean that they don't show it. But you can see a clear role allocation in most of them. The guy is the worker, the strong one coming to the rescue - which is normal for teenage stories, be it for guys or girls. Books with a dominating heroine are still special promoted as "literature for strong girls" as they don't even sell when targeting boys. This is not bad, it's normal. Gender is different, it will never be equal. Children are naturally aware of that and differ greatly on the gender when playing in a group.

Directly bashing... I don't see it at that. The comments in Bakuman about women make me chuckle. They mirror very well casual comments I hear from the men around me and I would never feel offended by them, unless I get directly attacked (as in: person).


As for the "Japanese single woman" effect, yes that is something going around a lot and it is a made a big deal of in Japan and other non-western countries because there is still isn't that change of thought and the manga reflects this.
Which is just right. Forcing an development won't work, it will come with time ;)

I had the nice experience being the first kid in my school with a single parent though divorce. That was kinda hardcore just 15 years ago while it's very normal nowadays.

magicbulletgirl
October 19, 2008, 07:47 PM
Pulling it back to the series itself, though I have opinions like "stereotyping breeds more stereotyping" and we can strive for equality but when I read this:



Directly bashing... I don't see it at that. The comments in Bakuman about women make me chuckle. They mirror very well casual comments I hear from the men around me and I would never feel offended by them, unless I get directly attacked (as in: person).

That pin-points the problem about why we think differently. When I hear or read guys saying this I am just as offended as if it were told directly to me because I think of the way I think of myself. If I heard some guys talking about women like that I'd tell them to shut up because it's not true.
It's even worse in this case because it's from a team of manga-ka that I know have a history of knocking over their female characters, I mentioned it above.
I very much love the idea of the story but it's not necessary to portray women like this. By portraying women like this they're just raising another generation of men who have no problem thinking these things and perpetuating the stereotypes of what makes a woman happy. That change we're thinking will come in time won't happen.

Were you not a little offended when Takagi said about Azuki "Well like she's naturally absorbed the idea that it's feminine to be graceful and well mannered and that girls should be serious and not too smart. She was born with the ability to sense that being too smart isn't cute."...? He saw her first as a girl than a person.
Azuki and every girl in Sugumi's and Takeshi's mangas should be treated as people and they're not. They did it to Naomi when Penbar told her "you're just my wife" not an FBI agent [anymore].
And then back on Iwase, answer me honestly, if Iwase was a guy and proud of "his" high grades, would anyone think he was stupid?
I don't see how adding in these sexist details help the story at all.

eni
October 19, 2008, 08:30 PM
Pulling it back to the series itself, though I have opinions like "stereotyping breeds more stereotyping" and we can strive for equality [ ... ].
[ ... ]
I very much love the idea of the story but it's not necessary to portray women like this. By portraying women like this they're just raising another generation of men who have no problem thinking these things and perpetuating the stereotypes of what makes a woman happy. That change we're thinking will come in time won't happen.
I think that a comedy/parody comic is not really a place for feminist screams. They portrait pretty much every topic in an overdramatized way, so why should they stop on this single one? Describing stereotypes in a humorously way (http://www.offthemarkcartoons.com/cartoons/2006-07-19.gif) is very normal and has a long tradition particularly is comics. It shouldn't be confused with serious statements (http://www.fanboy.com/images/sexist-disney-rejection01.jpg).


That pin-points the problem about why we think differently. When I hear or read guys saying this I am just as offended as if it were told directly to me because I think of the way I think of myself. If I heard some guys talking about women like that I'd tell them to shut up because it's not true.
As I said, I joke about guys as well and that's all I see in this: It's a joke. A comedy or even a parody.

Gender are different. They aren't equal by nature and they never will be unless we create genderless clones one day. A certain among of competition will always be between the genders and that's also just natural. Carrying this to the level of humorous literature is just the better way to express this situation unlike reallife situations were the one or the others gets treated miserably because of the gender. Bakuman as a manga for teenage boys, only expresses the thoughts of teenage boys of that age in a comedy way very well so far. And those thoughts are naturally still very distanced from the female gender as something to compete with, yet very interesting and appealing. The beginning of puberty is a difficult time.


Were you not a little offended when Takagi said about Azuki "Well like she's naturally absorbed the idea that it's feminine to be graceful and well mannered and that girls should be serious and not too smart. She was born with the ability to sense that being too smart isn't cute."...? He saw her first as a girl than a person.
Well, she is a girl in the first place. Before you can get to know the personality, you only see the appearance. And no, why should I feel offended? He pretty much hits the nail on the head as women indeed have an excellent understanding on how important a good show is. It's genetic and simply part of our inner program to "appeal" in looks and behavior which feeds the classic joke that women only need to look good but don't need to have anything in the head. That works the other way round too, saying that strong guys only have muscles and no brain. My mother was an amateur bodybuilder which was quite a fun time back then as the training buddies tend to play ping pong with these kinds of jokes :XD


Azuki and every girl in Sugumi's and Takeshi's mangas should be treated as people and they're not. They did it to Naomi when Penbar told her "you're just my wife" not an FBI agent [anymore].
Hm, I think you missed the point there. He was very worried as Kira was an extremely dangerous opponent. Everyone would want to keep their beloved one out of that and he choosed a very simple, yet a little harsh method. Aside from that, she retired. You often need to force dedicated people out of their work and that sadly needs some strong words here and there. It's a first for me to search for sexist traces in this sentence, honestly.


And then back on Iwase, answer me honestly, if Iwase was a guy and proud of "his" high grades, would anyone think he was stupid?
Nope, she would probably be seen as a nerd :amuse

magicbulletgirl
October 19, 2008, 09:16 PM
This isn't about the sexes being physically the same, it's about they way they are perceived.
Iwase wouldn't be considered a nerd, but as an ambitious smart young man. Why shouldn't the female Iwase be considered the same way?
Are you going to say a girl being too smart IS NOT cute at all and a turn off to men and be okay with it? Are you seriously saying it's okay that young men and boys think like this and that maybe they'll grow out of it?

Manga should be socially proactive and not be dragging impressionable young minds backwards. I know exactly who are the protagonists, but like I said, there isn't a reason to knock over women in the process. They don't see women at all as something to compete with but as THE PRIZE. THAT IS SEXIST.

And with that I am done.

(Sorry for the caps but they were necessary).

PlayerKill
October 19, 2008, 09:59 PM
I don't see why you'd be so serious about this sexism issue...

Let me ask you something, do most guys prefer girls who are smartasses or would they prefer the cute and dumb type? Most people I know prefer the latter.

The mangaka isn't exactly saying that women shouldn't be smart and should only be housewives. He's saying that making yourself look like a smartass would make you very unattractive to guys. If you want a boyfriend, which is really part of teenagers' life, then you shouldn't try to repel them by being all cocky and stuff. I am a teenage guy and I totally know what Shujin is talking about. No, it's not sexism... I don't think that is a sexist remark at all. Also, there is nothing stupid about wanting a boyfriend instead of remaining single like you've mentioned. This isn't "women should stay at home and don't go to work" kind of thing, but more like "guys don't like cocky girls" which is really true, at least in an asian country like where I'm from.

If Shujin said something like "girls shouldn't be smart and stop getting educated", that'd be a different story. He simply said "Iwase isn't so smart by acting smart and arrogant because that'd repel all the guys.". In a typical highschool life, everyone is always talking about getting a bf/gf and making yourself attractive to the opposite sex etc.

Get over it.

magicbulletgirl
October 19, 2008, 10:45 PM
I'll answer your question. Most guys prefer the cute and dumb type, and they are stupid, just as stupid as the women who behave that way.
And you ignored the fact that yes it is sexist that Azuki is portrayed as a prize.
Also, if Iwase was so repulsive to him (and other guys) why the heck would he let her in to his house? What a hypocritical stupid guy.

So why don't you analyze the things as they really are instead or restating everything more or less already said.

kewl0210
October 19, 2008, 11:26 PM
I still say that sexism thing is more so in Japanese culture than around the US and... stuff. It's more in that culture to "not look too smart" or "look cute" than it is in this one, where if you assumed that then it would be really sexist, there it's more reality.
As for "Azuki being portrayed as a prize" she chose that herself, as a test for him. We don't completely know why, she might've had motivation from knowing her mother's past. But it would seem she has some deep reason for it, since she startede crying when Saiko asked her why.

Was that Imase in his house? I guess you're right...

Next week has a color page, by the way.

Maxy Barnard
October 20, 2008, 03:16 AM
well to stick my oar in with the 'plot developments of obviousness' they seem to lining iwase up to reveal she's not as arrogant as she tries to be or make her an interest, and probably create a romantic dilemma for shujin.

the series has had it's sexist moments, but aside from an early massive fuck up in chapter 2 it's all felt like stuff that has it's place in the plot, so even my occasional scepticism is quelled

PlayerKill
October 20, 2008, 03:35 AM
I'll answer your question. Most guys prefer the cute and dumb type, and they are stupid, just as stupid as the women who behave that way.
And you ignored the fact that yes it is sexist that Azuki is portrayed as a prize.
Also, if Iwase was so repulsive to him (and other guys) why the heck would he let her in to his house? What a hypocritical stupid guy.

So why don't you analyze the things as they really are instead or restating everything more or less already said.

It's not really a stupid thing to prefer the cute and stupid type. What does preference have to deal with stupidity? There is nothing wrong with guys who like short girls, would you agree? Then, what's wrong with liking stupid girls?

There's a reason why there are guys who don't like smart girls, especially since they tend to look arrogant like Iwase. (I also think the reason guys don't like Iwase is more because of her arrogance rather than her intelligence) What's wrong with not liking someone who looks arrogant? If there's a guy who's the top of the year and seems to be very arrogant and proud of himself, I don't think girls would like that guy much too. That's why Shujin said Iwase is stupid by portreying herself that way.

Do you think Shujin really welcome Iwase into his house??? Have you read his response when he talked to Saiko? Would you say "go away, I don't welcome you into my house" to a classmate?

As for portreyal of Azuki as a prize... If there's a really sexually attractive guy, wouldn't girls view that guy as some kind of "prize" to win as well? Look at all those american chick flicks... It's just typical fiction kind of thing where guys/girls talk about wanting the most attractive person of the opposite gender in school. To me, it sounds more like a biased remark from a girl who's reading a manga intended for guys to read, while it's not much different for girls either. Sorry, no offense intended, but I really think so. Also, I get the feeling that it's more like "when I'm good enough to match you and become successful, would you marry me?" like how his uncle view it, not as if she's a trophy like you imply. It's not a war fighting for the most beautiful woman or anything... but more like Saiko's trying hard to be good enough for the girl he likes. I really don't like this "prize" topic and don't wanna be part of it. It just sounds ridiculous to me.

Maxy Barnard
October 20, 2008, 11:41 AM
my personal preference is someone who's witty and charming over anything, and i'm sure i'm not the only one, so most guys may just be a jaded generalisation...

but arrogance isn't always bad as a counterpoint, and i'm sure bakuman will reflect that in the future

magicbulletgirl
October 20, 2008, 02:59 PM
To me, it sounds more like a biased remark from a girl who's reading a manga intended for guys to read, while it's not much different for girls either. Sorry, no offense intended, but I really think so.

I am going offense to this because what you're basically saying is because I'm a girl first I have no business reading a manga meant for guys or making an opinion on it.
I'm 100% sure if I were a guy instead you wouldn't feel like this and much more open to discussion.

Thank you for proving my point. And now I am really out so please don't reply to this.

ttxdragon
October 20, 2008, 03:58 PM
When I hear or read guys saying this I am just as offended as if it were told directly to me because I think of the way I think of myself.

Should I feel offended each time any female says "Guys are just brainless monkeys", "They only have Football, Cars and Boobs in they're heads. There's no space for more", "A guy ain't a guy if he likes girly things", etc etc?

I'm not a manly man, neither do I say I am. Actually, I've been mistaken for a girl often enough already (no joke!). And I don't find it offensive that some people tell me I ain't manly. But maybe I'm just desensitized to "insults" because I've been made the laughing stock about 'sexist' stuff for long enough in my life...

I don't know how it is for you, but for me the first step to squashing stereotypes is to actively live the non-stereotypical life. A stereotype became a stereotype because for a long time it's just been like that. And the generation who has been raised with the whole "mother as housewife-only" mentality and has lived by it for very long is not even dead yet.

Until they're at least dead for 30-40 years I doubt you can get rid of all the sexist prejudices. Those people have been raised with them, lived by them, got them ingrained for all those years. You can't change where an old oak stands easily.


Were you not a little offended when Takagi said about Azuki "Well like she's naturally absorbed the idea that it's feminine to be graceful and well mannered and that girls should be serious and not too smart. She was born with the ability to sense that being too smart isn't cute."...?

That stuff... I wonder if you not just overreact to it?
We got exactly one person in the manga who stated that opinion. Shujin.
Furthermore, I think "being too smart" in this case means more like "being a smartass" and "never wanting others opinions/help". I'd like to think I speak for the majority of people when I say that it's easier to get along with people who might ask me for help some time and whom I can ask for help on something else. In how far it is "cute" to oneself is another question. Remember that one person said he thought it is cuter. "Being graceful and well-mannered" being attributed to femininity ain't wrong either. Even in non-sexist context you can put these into a relation.

Until now we got the opinion of a single person of whom there's no knowledge about his parents regards to sexist behavior.

But, you are already saying it's the authors opinion. Hurray for fast-track decisions.


He saw her first as a girl than a person.
Azuki and every girl in Sugumi's and Takeshi's mangas should be treated as people and they're not.

They are, but some teenager who happens to be a main-char wants to associate them with what he thinks a girl is. Is that so wrong? Just because he's a main-char he has to be a flawless, non-sexistic modern model citizen who'd best wear a skirt because he wants to celebrate emancipation?

Sorry for the exaggeration, got carried away there.


They did it to Naomi when Penbar told her "you're just my wife" not an FBI agent [anymore].

Hey~ that's even been in the part of Death Note I still read~
Ever thought he might want her safe and out of harms way and expressed it that way? There's a lot of people that don't express themselves in the most direct or best ways. Or why do you think there's so many misunderstandings in this world?


And then back on Iwase, answer me honestly, if Iwase was a guy and proud of "his" high grades, would anyone think he was stupid?

Ever considered that it wasn't "being proud" but "being arrogant" or "stuck up" and that it was 'lost-in-translation'? Because it certainly seems like Iwase is portrayed as an arrogant, stuck up, "i'm-better-than-you-all" person. Though ch10 might be the beginning we get to see past that part of her.

I want to remind you again: All these opinions about these persons have been expressed and brought into a "sexist" context through a single young character at age 14. Then there's also the fact that we have yet to see him actually treat them in a way that'd imply he'd be the same in a relationship with a girl or even while talking with them.


I don't see how adding in these sexist details help the story at all.

It gives the main characters an immature touch while it gives them lots of room to grow themselves. Especially Shujin might be about to see his world thrown upside down with the appearance of Iwase in his room.


This isn't about the sexes being physically the same, it's about they way they are perceived.

Even then there's a difference.
For women, men are something to get into a reproductive relationship with.
For men, women are something to get into a reproductive relationship with.

That's biology, nature, instinct -- unless you're born or feeling a homosexual at which point you just want to get into a (sadly non-reprodructive) relationship with someone of the same gender, which is also fine.

A hetero-sexual being will always perceive the other gender differently from it's own, especially when they're just acting on they're instincts.

Or do you want to tell me it's sexist that I wouldn't want to get into a sexual relationship with another male? Sorry for not being Bi-sexual. I like my heterosexual self, even if I accept other peoples choices.


Iwase wouldn't be considered a nerd, but as an ambitious smart young man.

You're trying really hard to find the sexist part of this, aren't you?
No, Iwase would be considered an arrogant asshole if "he" acted as 'arrogant' as perceived by Takagi. Takagi sees her as an arrogant girl and it turns him off and he states his opinion clearly to Mashiro.


Why shouldn't the female Iwase be considered the same way?

She is.


Are you going to say a girl being too smart IS NOT cute at all and a turn off to men and be okay with it?

To the men in question, it might be a turn off.
Remember that there's also people who like arrogant people. Or people who like to be treated like shit. Or people who love to inflict pain on others.

Just because we don't see them in the manga doesn't mean they don't exist.


Are you seriously saying it's okay that young men and boys think like this and that maybe they'll grow out of it?

Yes. It totally is okay for them to think like that. It's called nature.
Just because we can think like this as humans, it does not mean we're not mammals at the genetic level. Is it so bad to measure up the "prize"(possible future partner in reproductive relationship) based upon your own preferences?


Manga should be socially proactive and not be dragging impressionable young minds backwards.

And I say I hate it when entertainment manga are turned into a lecturing device. There's enough that do it differently.

Just because one manga portrays that side of society you go up the wall? Wow, very proactive. I'm sure that leaves a good impression with the people.

ehem. Sorry for the sarcasm there, couldn't help myself.


I know exactly who are the protagonists, but like I said, there isn't a reason to knock over women in the process. They don't see women at all as something to compete with but as THE PRIZE. THAT IS SEXIST.

Are you reading the same manga as me?

Because right now I see very much competition between male and female there.
"If I can't be on the same level as her, I am not good enough for her."
Is it sexist to want to be good enough for the one you love? Heck, Mashiro even wants to be together with her regardless of either of theirs status.

Just because we don't yet see much about Azukis live, doesn't mean that she just sits there waiting as a prize. Actually, as implied by the story of Mashiro's Uncle, there's very much the thought of a woman making career. In whatever work they chose. I got no doubt that this story will see Azuki climbing the ladder too, even if it might not necessarily be the focus of the story.


I'll answer your question. Most guys prefer the cute and dumb type, and they are stupid, just as stupid as the women who behave that way.

You're awesome at generalizing too, btw <3
And "sexist" behavior is just another kind of generalization.

And sorry for being stupid because I have preferences. Something must be wrong with not being a mindless drone and having the thing called "preference".


And you ignored the fact that yes it is sexist that Azuki is portrayed as a prize.

She is portrayed as the prize? Aren't you forgetting that they agreed on the dreams of both coming true?


Also, if Iwase was so repulsive to him (and other guys) why the heck would he let her in to his house? What a hypocritical stupid guy.

Well, for one, we have yet to see whether the two girls arrived at his house alone or together and furthermore I don't remember that we heard that Takagi acts upon his superficial observations aside from stating them to a friend. I think that's a big point here: He may have his thoughts, but he doesn't necessarily act on them. Real 'sexist' behavior would be if he'd act on them.

"Thoughts are free," was it if I remember correctly?



So why don't you analyze the things as they really are instead or restating everything more or less already said.
Why are you restating what was already said, too?




P.S.: I'm sorry if I came over as offending towards homosexual or bisexual persons in this post. That isn't my intention.

eni
October 20, 2008, 03:58 PM
I am going offense to this because what you're basically saying is because I'm a girl first I have no business reading a manga meant for guys or making an opinion on it.
I'm 100% sure if I were a guy instead you wouldn't feel like this and much more open to discussion.
Ehem sorry, but aren't you a little sexist here by claiming that he made this point just because he's a guy? I wonder if you feel offended too when I tell you that I thought the same after your last posts. He's fully right saying that this manga is aimed towards teenage boys, that's the demographic. As such it's also normal that the content is optimized on the view of boys in early/middle puberty, a phase were women are simply seen as aliens at first. So, it's indeed maybe better to read manga written for girls when you feel offended so much on "boys talk" - and that's not meant to be an insult.

Again, it's a comedy manga not a study book and it's ridiculous to ask for it to be political correct in terms of character design. Asking for protagonists to be role models would pretty much kill 3/4 of the existing series for various reasons (antihero, rebel, idiot, ...). You take this matter way too serious.

Also, this is an open discussion. You're free to leave it anytime but asking members to not reply gives the uncomfortable "I have the last word"-feeling only resulting in more provocative answers.


//edit... ttx was faster >.>

Until they're at least dead for 30-40 years I doubt you can get rid of all the sexist prejudices. Those people have been raised with them, lived by them, got them ingrained for all those years. You can't change where an old oak stands easily.
Besides that, who says that everyone wants change? I know a lot of women who would love to be housewives but society forces them into external work. You have no excuse nowadays anymore to concentrate on house and children, it's not seen as work anymore. 50 years ago, housework and raising the children was equal to the work of the husband. It was notable, the housewife respected for what she did. The screams for "equality" actually did great damage to this.

Anyways, let's bring this thread back to topic. The "sexist content" is surely part of the topic but let's try to reduce it to the actual chapter content and not write essays on feminist goals >.>

PlayerKill
October 20, 2008, 04:32 PM
Ever considered that it wasn't "being proud" but "being arrogant" or "stuck up" and that it was 'lost-in-translation'? Because it certainly seems like Iwase is portrayed as an arrogant, stuck up, "i'm-better-than-you-all" person. Though ch10 might be the beginning we get to see past that part of her.

You're trying really hard to find the sexist part of this, aren't you?
No, Iwase would be considered an arrogant asshole if "he" acted as 'arrogant' as perceived by Takagi. Takagi sees her as an arrogant girl and it turns him off and he states his opinion clearly to Mashiro.

And I say I hate it when entertainment manga are turned into a lecturing device. There's enough that do it differently.

"If I can't be on the same level as her, I am not good enough for her."
Is it sexist to want to be good enough for the one you love? Heck, Mashiro even wants to be together with her regardless of either of theirs status.

And sorry for being stupid because I have preferences. Something must be wrong with not being a mindless drone and having the thing called "preference".

Aren't you forgetting that they agreed on the dreams of both coming true?

Agreed. Totally. That's why I find the argument kinda ridiculous.



Ehem sorry, but aren't you a little sexist here by claiming that he made this point just because he's a guy? I wonder if you feel offended too when I tell you that I thought the same after your last posts. He's fully right saying that this manga is aimed towards teenage boys, that's the demographic. As such it's also normal that the content is optimized on the view of boys in early/middle puberty, a phase were women are simply seen as aliens at first. So, it's indeed maybe better to read manga written for girls when you feel offended so much on "boys talk" - and that's not meant to be an insult.

Again, it's a comedy manga not a study book and it's ridiculous to ask for it to be political correct in terms of character design. Asking for protagonists to be role models would pretty much kill 3/4 of the existing series for various reasons (antihero, rebel, idiot, ...). You take this matter way too serious.

Thank you. You really said what I wanted to say, in a better fashion than I ever could.

I'm sorry, magicbulletgirl, if my comment made you offended. It was not a "go read your shojou manga instead of shonen" comment that was only made since you are a girl. It was more like what eni has elaborated very wonderfully.

Like I said, there are always this girls talk about guys in chick flicks too. This is just the same kind of thing, but only that it's a guys' talk instead.

Can we actually discuss about something else? At first, I came to this topic because I found the manga very addictive and I really want to talk about how fun it is.

Sexy Randal 105
October 20, 2008, 04:38 PM
Hey, how about we discuss the plot more and wether or not ohba is sexist less! :D

eni
October 20, 2008, 04:41 PM
Can we actually discuss about something else? At first, I came to this topic because I found the manga very addictive and I really want to talk about how fun it is.
Sure, start with it.

I was actually thinking, would it be interesting to collect the hints on "how to become a mangaka"? I'm talking about the tips and recommendations given and the steps explained in the manga. Anyone interested in doing that (as I'm simply to busy)? I would edit it into the first post.

PlayerKill
October 20, 2008, 04:55 PM
Sure, start with it.

I've seen many people talk about how this manga is different from the rest of the Shonen manga. I think otherwise. I think the reason why I like it so much is more because it kind of illustrates what a shonen manga is/is supposed to be. I say "is supposed to be" because lately we've been getting typical shonen manga like Bleach and DGM (sry, no offense to the fans, but they are really good examples here) where everything is just about all the action. This manga is everything a shonen manga should be, only minus the action.

The way Shujin punched Ishizawa and back up Saiko who felt really down, the way the editor tells them to work together instead of each person doing his job separately, etc. The manga illustrates the friendship and the dream element of a shonen manga really well. Add the part about Azuki (the romance bit that's intended for guys, which reminds me of Ichigo 100% that I really miss) and the authors really made me so fond of this manga.

Maybe it's because I'm exactly the demographics this is aimed towards. Well, whatever. All I know is, the authors really got a big fan here.

hyorinmaru
October 23, 2008, 03:50 AM
Page 11, color pic

http://i36.tinypic.com/20ts512.jpg

bunshindattebayo
October 24, 2008, 11:30 PM
I just read the latest chapter and it's pretty good.Oh,and the people who are the judges were pretty crazy.It's Oda,Inagaki,Kishimoto,and Toriyama.