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igotthegoods
July 31, 2008, 11:58 PM
Chapter 320 is out! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36165)

Discuss and predict away! ^^

ajaxsoccerjon
August 01, 2008, 12:04 AM
Um wow what a waste. I stayed up till one for that? Um I hate Yumichika and kinda hope he dies. The only good thing about this chapter was Ichimaru's two cents. Other than that, laughable gay bashing. They're both fugly.

ThaGreatOne
August 01, 2008, 12:08 AM
Um wow what a waste. I stayed up till one for that? Um I hate Yumichika and kinda hope he dies. The only good thing about this chapter was Ichimaru's two cents. Other than that, laughable gay bashing. They're both fugly.

My thought's exactly I knew it wasn't gonna be great but this fell below my already low expectations of the chapter. This was pretty weak. however I am surprised that gawa is got pwned like he did already. The only bright side to this chapter is that Kubo is getting the worst fights out of the way ahead of time to I can be happy about that much

AnimeLoverX
August 01, 2008, 12:14 AM
Um wow what a waste. I stayed up till one for that? Um I hate Yumichika and kinda hope he dies. The only good thing about this chapter was Ichimaru's two cents. Other than that, laughable gay bashing. They're both fugly.+1

man this weeks mange isnt as epic as last weeks </3

hopefully gantz/d.grey man will make up for it :O

Onomatopoeia
August 01, 2008, 12:25 AM
One Piece will probablly make up for this week easily. The only thing interesting was that Gin actually does care about Kira so I kinda like Gin more know he's the only one who actually regrets leaving SS from the looks of it. Yay GIN!!! Funny how he can make anything seem more interesting.

Abirama was hilarious as usual in somewhat serious way. But really Yumi vs Coolhorn while interesting and quite good well... you know... this might well be the end of Bleach. Lots of Good Guys could start dying it could be very sad and what we have here is just kinda retarded. It destroys all the tension we've been working towards because the battle seems to be purely funny and Coolhorns is release is just CREEPY!

Fallen.
August 01, 2008, 12:39 AM
I wanna see yumi's bankai lol and yea coolhorns release is "queen of roses" lmao can't get any gayer.

segua
August 01, 2008, 01:16 AM
Hilarious but that last page was a bit disturbing.

It seems that the renegade captains are just playing around. I'm sure they could break free of that fire prison if they wanted to. That shows that Gin, Tousen and Aizen has great patience and also great confidence in themselves. It also shows that Gin isn't such a blood thirsting person as he was portrayed to be; Tousen too.

Just seems like that the only way to complete their objectives, they couldn't do it while in the Gotei 13.

Onomatopoeia
August 01, 2008, 01:36 AM
I will say one thing, I really enjoyed getting to see what they were doing inside that Fire barrier don't know why. It was such a highlight for me in this chapter.

Critical Point
August 01, 2008, 01:53 AM
Maybe Gin has another reason for joining Aizen in his conquest, or sarcastically messing around. But I think Gin might have a hidden agenda, who knows? Still avoiding the main fights.. all the suspense that was building up was kinda destroyed when the big fight was delayed, in my opinion of course. Hope next week's chapter will be better.

segua
August 01, 2008, 01:56 AM
I will say one thing, I really enjoyed getting to see what they were doing inside that Fire barrier don't know why. It was such a highlight for me in this chapter.

That was the highlight of this chapter. Recall what Tousen said when he was being taken up though the negation? He replied that he will always take the path that has less bloodshed or something? I'm really starting to question if these two are really loyal to Aizen or that through Aizen, they could truly realize their desires. So maybe those three are more like partners.

Shiro-kun
August 01, 2008, 02:08 AM
So A guy became Sailor Moon huh? not so intersting :darn
Gin comment about Izuru was the only intersting thing that happen in this chapter, alhtough it might be just because i want to see the Captains vs espada fight more so than these fights ...

Silhouette
August 01, 2008, 02:41 AM
Gin is the best deceptive character in a shounen IMO. I really like his character, he can piss you off with his cruelty and when he acts like an ass yet he's very convincing when he shows that he cares. I love how Gin and Tousen have opposite personalities (one is deceptive and the other is straight forward) yet they both chose to follow the same path.

I am looking forward for the fight between Coolhorn and Yumichika because:

1- It's always interesting to see a fight that involves an ugly drag queen with immense physical power especially when the character is designed perfectly (look how Coolhorn turns all bitchy when his hair is cut)

2-Yumichika's arm is broken already.

Prediction: Coolhorns's ability will be about brute force (pounding, breaking,...etc), I only say that because if fits his character perfectly like a mighty wrestler with gender confusion issues.



One last thing, Coolhorn's release makes Frankie's speedo (OP) look manly.

Fallen.
August 01, 2008, 02:47 AM
That was the highlight of this chapter. Recall what Tousen said when he was being taken up though the negation? He replied that he will always take the path that has less bloodshed or something? I'm really starting to question if these two are really loyal to Aizen or that through Aizen, they could truly realize their desires. So maybe those three are more like partners.

Maybe tousen and gin are trying to get close to aizen since they know his swords power,they don't wanna be hypnotized so they're waiting for the right moment to attack.

Andonan
August 01, 2008, 02:58 AM
Yeah that chapter was a bit of a waste, let's get back to ichigo

MAITREYA
August 01, 2008, 03:02 AM
I just want to say the obvious, but... it seems that Kubo Tite really has ran out of ideas and this seems like an essay to tie up all the loose ends in one overly predictable fight where each character will be paired up with his/her "Hollow" opposite, like gay against gay, old man agaist old man, little brat against little brat etc. If you look at the character designs, it shouldn't be too hard to guess who will end up fighting whom. >_>

This was already clear when the "Turn the Pendulum" part ended by making readers clear that all the past secrets were simply an evil plan created by the bad guys who (oh, wow) were bad since their birth, a simple solution where the world is divided into black and white.

As about my predictions, it also seems that vice captains on pillars will lose, otherwise there will be no spare place for Vizards to kick in.

Caligumenthe
August 01, 2008, 03:08 AM
The miracle sweet ultra funky fantastic dramatic romantic sadistic erotic exotic athletic guillotine attack actually did terrible damage. An arm breaking is no small injury. It happens to close the loophole of 'kendo.'

Wonder if Yumichika's shikai can restore his broken arm?

roks1234
August 01, 2008, 03:42 AM
Why do some of u take Gin's comment as he "cares" for Kira or that he even "regrets" leaving soul society? Hes clearly just being his creepy sarcastic self..

notBowen
August 01, 2008, 04:17 AM
Aside from the brief dose of Gin, that was the least enjoyable chapter in many months.

gigantor21
August 01, 2008, 07:48 AM
This chapter WAS a waste. A huge waste. Gin's comment was the only thing of relevance. But I thought the whole thing with Yumi and Coolhorn was hilarious.

Maitreya, we're on the exact same page--in fact, I was worried that we'd get a setup like this once Aizen decided to invade early. The further we get into this arc, the more it looks like a procession of fights padded with character interaction is all we'll be getting for a while. Not surprising, given how the HM Arc ended up.

And for the record, I don't think Gin's comment proves anything. After seeing him kill someone in coldblood during the Gaiden, just because Aizen told him to, I don't think Kubo can make a convincing double agent out of him. He's clearly not right in the head--caring about Izuru and Matsumoto doesn't change that IMO (though it does give him nice character depth).

Eye of the tiger
August 01, 2008, 08:29 AM
Funny chapter.. tousen thinking well of Gin's sadistic comment was funny too.. freaking ballerina release, Man Kubo's kinky! Guess we'll have to wait till october to get into any of the captain fights or HM/Ichigo fights. And I am still waiting for what Mayuri found in that room.. hopefully Kubo will do a few cutbacks to show the captains in HM.

patedecarne
August 01, 2008, 08:34 AM
Guys, do you know my biggest fear about the current events? After all of those wasteful chapters, Kubo just skip all the captains fight;

Yes, in a first moment this could be absurd, but think about it: If Kubo is really running out of ideas(Which I don't want to believe), he'll show the captains lying on the ground, without reaction, defeated by Aizen, Gin and Tousen;

unfortunately, after this chapter, I'm really worried about the manga, and I never got worried like that before, with these chapters Bleach is literally digging up in a huge abyss, and I don't know Kubo will fix the things from now;

And the worst part: I'm seeing about more 10 chapters like this one, it's just the natural thing... in the 2 upcoming chapters, Yumichika will win, then in the next 2 will be Kira's time, after it, more 2 involving Hisagi, and finally, more 4 for Ikkaku's fight, because he'll show bankai, etc.. you guys know the drill...

natli
August 01, 2008, 09:06 AM
It's sad that Yumichika got reduced to comic relief. His zanpakuto is second only to Aizen in terms of underhand ways it could defeat you.

YJiang
August 01, 2008, 09:44 AM
Honestly, if Yumichika could dodge Coolhorn's lightning kick while talking to him, being distracted and not expecting it, why couldn't he dodge Coolhorn's much slower guillotine attack which Coolhorn announced before he performed it? He would have saved himself his arm.

I think it's just a plot device for Yumichika to be able to heal his arm with his shikai next chapter. :/

Darth Executor
August 01, 2008, 10:07 AM
And for the record, I don't think Gin's comment proves anything. After seeing him kill someone in coldblood during the Gaiden, just because Aizen told him to, I don't think Kubo can make a convincing double agent out of him. He's clearly not right in the head--caring about Izuru and Matsumoto doesn't change that IMO (though it does give him nice character depth).

Or maybe Gin and Tousen are so scared of Aizen they'll do anything he asks until they have a reasonable chance of success.
[hr]

Maybe tousen and gin are trying to get close to aizen since they know his swords power,they don't wanna be hypnotized so they're waiting for the right moment to attack.

Tousen's immune to Aizen's shikai. I'm guessing they saw his bankai and nearly dropped dead of fear.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.11/03/

Tousen's practically crapping his pants just from Aizen saying no twice.

basterd
August 01, 2008, 10:19 AM
Was expecting some slow chapters by this point. The precious two showed as that this is going to continue for a while. Dunno for what reason Kubo has, but probably cause he needs more time for the big fights or just that his trip he just made (to us or where was it?) maybe took up alot of time so he posponed the big fights.

Agree with you guys that only Gin's words where the only interesting in this chapter. But, try to see everything positive (I know, laaaame), the upcoming fights SHOULD be great IMO after this part.



http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.11/03/

Tousen's practically crapping his pants just from Aizen saying no twice.

If I'm not mistaken that was Tousen feeling Aizen's reiatsu burst for a second there? And Aizen made it just to make Tousen listen to his commands. So can't believe that it's anything else then Aizen's reiatsu that makes everyone piss their pants.

TodaPower
August 01, 2008, 10:26 AM
I think this chapter was really funny, and seeing Yumi have his arm broke makes me think he won;t fare so well.
I think the current vice captians fighting will all be getting owned, until the vizard's come to save the day.
Besides Ikkaku is the strongest and he had trouble with Grimmjows fraccion.

Also, having Gin show some compassion was nice, but who knows if he is being honest.

Next chapter we will probably see some Yumi fighting and his release and then move to the next fight, hopefully we can Hisagi's shikai.
I am looking forward to seeing Ikkaku's bankai again ...it rocks.

igotthegoods
August 01, 2008, 10:52 AM
I think it's just a plot device for Yumichika to be able to heal his arm with his shikai next chapter. :/
i like this idea, although we don't know for sure that his shikai actually heals him. yes, he was all shiny and new after his fight with hisagi, but we still don't know the specifics. i do suspect that he will be forced to use his shikai in this battle regardless of any healing properties it might have. yumichika having a bankai as a mere 5th seat is out of the question for me, so i don't think we'll be seeing that. also, the quick release of the fraccion indicates to me that these fights are most likely going to go by pretty quickly (hopefully).

overall, i feel like this chapter was pretty weak (though funny) and, like many of you, i thought the only really interesting part was gin's exchange with tousen about kira. seeing a rare moment of concern from gin was great and, like gig said above, this sort of thing really adds to his character depth, which is always a good thing. given his devious nature, it is only natural to suspect that his concern was not genuine, but what ulterior motive would he have for saying these things to tousen? i don't think he was lying at all :)

Mystic Moon
August 01, 2008, 11:28 AM
Maybe they'll come in when Aizen gets free. Cuz they did say they owed him a debt for the whole hollow fiasco. Urahara might turn up soon, lets hope so or else it'd be sooooo booring without those two, vaizards nd urahara.

mashimashilove
August 01, 2008, 11:57 AM
Bleh. This chapter was alright. Luckily I had seen the image of Coolhorn's release in the spoilers, otherwise I might of had to gouge out my eyes. I hope that Yumichika takes him down quickly- with either bankai or shikai, I really don't mind. Just don't tear what little clothing he has left. Dx

Some people are saying that the VC need to lose here so that the Vizard can come in. Mashiro, Hiyori, Lisa, and Hacchi are the vice-captains turned Vizard- so I would suspect they'd be the ones to jump in if the Pillar Protectors somehow lost- though I really doubt that they would. I would like to see them fight, but I'm sure that it wouldn't even take them a release to defeat the Fraccion- probably just whip out their masks and kablam! And I wanna see some Vizard shikai. =( (Moreso to see Mashiro fight, but same deal. xD)

Assymilum
August 01, 2008, 12:23 PM
It's a shame that even after expanding the length of this series (the "Pendulum" thingy), Kubo Tite still didn't put the scene where the captains of Gotei 13 actually fight against Aizen, Gin and Tousen. Urgh.

Overall, it was fine actually seeing (almost) every page of Coolhorn and Yumichika's fight filled with the word 'ugly'. But the last page was just... creeptastic. Ew. Worst than a spandex-wearing Batman, I must say.

Onomatopoeia
August 01, 2008, 01:29 PM
The only part that really deserves any discussion is the Gin and Tousen talk. It's interesting to finaly get some information on them as how they feel and what they do. We have plenty of backstory on them but so little parts where they talk together.

From the looks of what I got I thought Tousen and Gin might be friendly between each other. I mean it makes sense doesn't it?

gold349
August 01, 2008, 01:38 PM
I for one said that I didn't mind kubo throwing in these VC fights as some VC have legit reason for being part of battle, Kira due to Gin, Hisagi due to maybe wanting to meet kensai again but the way its going its just a waste of chapters. I wanted like the beginning of these encounters then switch to Ichigo and ulquaria and then come back to the vc in the end moments of the fight. Other than the shinigmi, I don't want to get to know any arrancar other than the espada and then I would want kubo to make them bad ass and have a good story/personality/strengths/weakness for them, give them proper/good lines which makes the fights way interesting but these small fry could be just left out.

Hockeychaoz
August 01, 2008, 01:41 PM
i like this idea, although we don't know for sure that his shikai actually heals him. yes, he was all shiny and new after his fight with hisagi, but we still don't know the specifics. i do suspect that he will be forced to use his shikai in this battle regardless of any healing properties it might have. yumichika having a bankai as a mere 5th seat is out of the question for me, so i don't think we'll be seeing that. also, the quick release of the fraccion indicates to me that these fights are most likely going to go by pretty quickly (hopefully).
:)

First off, lemme say this.
What a terrible chapter. Plot progression = 0% Er wait, Kira's oppoent released, awesome.
I agree 100% that his arm is only broken to set up for his shikai healing him.

But as for the whole... "Yumi can't have bankai because he is 5th seat.."

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/08/

:) Well, he's basically saying that he could be 3rd, but Ikkaku is third. Yachiru is vice captain, and we haven't seen how strong she is. Yumi could be 4th but he thinks its ugly, so he settles for 5th. If we assume that Ikkaku is stronger than Yachiru, then that makes Yumi third strongest in 11th division. And the fact that Ikkaku is third, and Yumi doesn't want to take it from him, kinda implies that Yumi and Ikkaku are somewhat on the same level.


Also, didn't we have a flashback where Ikkaku said he didn't wanna show anyone bankai besides Renji and Yumi?

I think Ikkaku and Yumi deserve bankai.
Kira is a genious, so he can win with his strength alone and awesome zanpaktou.
Hisagi was a prodigy if I remember right, so he can win too.

I dont think its too far out for a 5th seat to have bankai when he is considerably stronger than 5th seat. If Byakuya decided he didn't wanna be captain, he wanted to be 6th seat, does that make him any less strong?

hajialibaig
August 01, 2008, 02:30 PM
meh, an okay chapter, better than the previous 2. Atleast we had some releases and half-a-fight.... to get things started (other than people starring at each other)

I'd say these minion fights will go on for another 2 months atleast... (Till october)

Lohnt
August 01, 2008, 02:42 PM
The 11th division is stronger than everyone gives it credit for. It could practically form its own army, and I seriously doubt Ikaku is stronger than Yachiru, I think as a matter of fact, Yachiru is just so damn strong she hasn't shown it yet. But all in all, the rest of the seats are probably vice-captain level anyway.

All in all, Zaraki is just an all out monster that I think everyone in SS is afraid of, that's why the current ranking of 11 is as it is, no one dare challenge him.

Also.. honestly this chapter was pointless... I'm sorry but Bleach as it stands doesn't even make me spoil myself until the chapter comes out and I glance over it to get a summary. They need to get on with the fights, because sadly that's all that's left to see in this arc, storywise it has nothing going for it.

ryanzokuken
August 01, 2008, 02:45 PM
i can't complain. in fact i like these chapters. i like these four shinigami, espescially Ikkaku and Yumichika. i'm glad to see more of them, espescially having fights that are important to the overall battle (guarding the pillars).

they don't progress the story at all, but so what? we've had boring story progression chapters for the past few months since the gaiden started. it's nice to get new information, yea, and story and character development is not only good but necessary, but i wanna see some fights. if i wanted to read a manga/watch an anime that was all story and talking and no fighting, i'd go read love hina or something.

and again, since these are cool characters and i like them, i'm happy to see some more chapters of them fighting. plus, these parts will be awesome in the anime!

personally i'm not excited at all to watch Yama fight. he's an old man with a massive inferno zanpakuto. i think his fighting will be boooorrringgg, aside from the talking and character/story development during the fight.
and i'm sick of Hitsugaya.

i'm interested to see Soifon, Shunsui, Ukitake, and Kommamura fight though.

Onomatopoeia
August 01, 2008, 02:54 PM
Really I don't see why people are excited to see any of the Fantastic Four fights. None of them will advance the plot and the only thing that might be surprising is if Yumi has a bankai but if he does then it will be used as a trump card to slaughter Coolhorn.

The only people that hold my interest are the Fraccions but only vaugely. Gin and Tousen are the two key people in this chapter. Also why don't we see Aizen in those panels out of curiosity? I mean its not a very big place, not many places you can hide...

llamapie
August 01, 2008, 03:38 PM
All I've got to say is:...

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb222/llamapi3/19.png
Got Homo?

gigantor21
August 01, 2008, 06:00 PM
Pat - Agreed 100%. I don't even know if taking a break and reading in bulk will help, because the last 5 chapters have had about 2 chapters worth of actual story progression. This week didn't add anything, really.

This is why me and Quartz wanted the War to actually be in Winter. That way, everyone could've trained, Aizen and Yama could've created more detailed plans, and the mass of loose plot threads surrounding the Karakura Gallery could've been addressed. The current set up begets plotless fighting and rushed/convoluted writing.

We can only hope there's a damn good reason why Kubo pushed everything up, that we just aren't seeing. I say "only hope" because the story has felt aimless for almost 18 months. Faith is all I can give. :/

BlackHair
August 01, 2008, 06:50 PM
Bleach keeps disappointing me.. Instead of the captain/Espada fight, we are gonne now spend some weeks/chapter on idiots, whose fights wont make any progress on the story.
Only funny part was "Fugly" Guess I will stop reading for a week weeks xD

llamapie
August 01, 2008, 10:00 PM
Pat - Agreed 100%. I don't even know if taking a break and reading in bulk will help, because the last 5 chapters have had about 2 chapters worth of actual story progression. This week didn't add anything, really.

This is why me and Quartz wanted the War to actually be in Winter. That way, everyone could've trained, Aizen and Yama could've created more detailed plans, and the mass of loose plot threads surrounding the Karakura Gallery could've been addressed. The current set up begets plotless fighting and rushed/convoluted writing.

We can only hope there's a damn good reason why Kubo pushed everything up, that we just aren't seeing. I say "only hope" because the story has felt aimless for almost 18 months. Faith is all I can give. :/

You've said it. No real plot development just empty fights for .. well no reason to advance the story. There has to be growth. For instance in Bleach's arch rival Naruto, there is weekly plot development. Well not this week but almost every week there is plenty of dialog plenty of people improving and so on. Bleach has lacked that feel for over a year.

And to underscore the point. This discussion thread is nearly dead. Nothing to discuss because no new content was given.

Grimjaww
August 02, 2008, 01:32 AM
Bleach keeps disappointing me.. Instead of the captain/Espada fight, we are gonne now spend some weeks/chapter on idiots, whose fights wont make any progress on the story.
Only funny part was "Fugly" Guess I will stop reading for a week weeks xD

These guys are setting up the scenario for an awesome all out battle. If you don't understand this, then let me tell you why. Kubo has to show how strong the arrancar are, how else to do that by forcing the Lt.'s to fight first? We already know that Ikkaku was forced to use bankai because they were so strong. As for the other Lt.'s and yumichika, we all know they are strong and should have some sort of new abilities. The arrancars power will be realized when the shinigami are forced to use their ace card, I mean so far all the arrancar have been killed.........maybe we will see Ikkaku value his pride more than his life by not releasing in front of everyone. There will be some good plot to come, Kubo is taking his time I guess to not end it too quickly, but the anime is sure catching up and fast............

ryanzokuken
August 02, 2008, 01:36 AM
Really I don't see why people are excited to see any of the Fantastic Four fights. None of them will advance the plot and the only thing that might be surprising is if Yumi has a bankai but if he does then it will be used as a trump card to slaughter Coolhorn.

The only people that hold my interest are the Fraccions but only vaugely. Gin and Tousen are the two key people in this chapter. Also why don't we see Aizen in those panels out of curiosity? I mean its not a very big place, not many places you can hide...

because the Fantastic Four characters are cool and deserve some more spotlight before the end. people who like the characters can enjoy these chapters showing them fight. progress the story? no, but it's still fun to see. we had like 2 months of Gaiden-given story progression without any really cool fighting or action. when i read chapters like that, with nothing but talking and new information, i'm like "oh wow, cool. really? that's good to know. can you guys please fight now?"

it's not a soap opera. it's a shounen manga and an anime. if you people don't like fighting then you're reading the wrong one.
did you really get into bleach because you like the story that centers around warrior-characters, even though you don't like fighting?
if you want dull, slow, chit chat with horrible action, watch Ichigo and co. chase around some little girl in the anime filler.

Onomatopoeia
August 02, 2008, 02:04 AM
because the Fantastic Four characters are cool and deserve some more spotlight before the end. people who like the characters can enjoy these chapters showing them fight. progress the story? no, but it's still fun to see. we had like 2 months of Gaiden-given story progression without any really cool fighting or action. when i read chapters like that, with nothing but talking and new information, i'm like "oh wow, cool. really? that's good to know. can you guys please fight now?"

it's not a soap opera. it's a shounen manga and an anime. if you people don't like fighting then you're reading the wrong one.
did you really get into bleach because you like the story that centers around warrior-characters, even though you don't like fighting?
if you want dull, slow, chit chat with horrible action, watch Ichigo and co. chase around some little girl in the anime filler.

The Bleach Gaiden was amazing probablly far better then everything else that happened in Bleach so far(except maybe SS). Second of all I love fighting just this isn't very impressive fighting. What have we been building for the last few chapters... thats right tension. The Fantastic Four fights are doing a horrible job of keeping that tension. Not only that but their should be 2 other fights going on at the same exact time because theirs no way you can justify that.

In comparison One Piece has been doing a good job of that by keeping 2 major fights going on at the same time by switching the scenes and is making them extremely interesting. I expect as good from Kubo especially since this is near the end.

The only fights I'm looking forward to in the FF fights are Kira vs Abirama(the guy is funny) and maybe Hisagi vs Findor (depending on where Kubo takes it)

And honestly what can you expect from the Fantastic Four fight??? Ikakku pulling out a Bankai,Hisagi finally showing his Shikai, Yumi explaining his Shikai and possibly a Bankai to slaughter Coolhorn,Kira justifying Gins respect for him? I can guess most of the likely scenario's from what we've seen so far.

The Fantastic Four doesn't promise much interesting action from what I've seen. Perhaps it'll prove me wrong but I'm not expecting a very good fight. How do you even know about the Anime Fillers I for one have no clue what goes on in Anime Fillers.

And as for the last part, I like bleach because of interesting fights and some good characters. You seem to believe that Bleach only has one thing... fights.Let me guess your one of those people who loved the Kenpachi vs Nnoitra fight...

Grimjaww
August 02, 2008, 02:52 AM
When Gin says he's glad that Kira is doing alright, does that mean against the arrancar, or in general? I mean I'd hate to see the guy i trained lose to some cannon fodder, even if I was on the opposite side. However it wouldn't be weird to see Gin actually caring about Kira, I mean he does have some sort of feelings for Matsumoto.

Lohnt
August 02, 2008, 05:45 AM
Look. No matter how you consider this scenario, the f4 fights shouldn't last more than a chapter each (if not half). The story has gotten nowhere, and Ichigo still has to pull a powerup out of his ass to save Orihime.

The only way I could see this resolving is if Orihime dies (no ;_; ) and something resolves the fighting until the winter war.

Because ffs why even mention the winter war if you're not gonna do it, and obviously he IS gonna do it, so why have a repeat of all the fights well see there right now. I DONT WANT TO SEE THE SAME FIGHTS TWICE. FFS, the pacing is so messed right now Kubo will be forced to reach 1000 chapters, but who will still be reading by then? Aside from people that liked DBZ 20 episode beam fights.

PS
All I've got to say is:...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb222/llamapi3/19.png
Got Homo?


Why is this character even necessary? Does anyone actually find a transvestite character with little to no personality enjoyable? I mean Mr 2 was crazy, this guy is just NGGAHHHH typical muscle bound guy but.. gay. What happened to characters like Szayel

walkie
August 02, 2008, 06:53 AM
another meaningless chapter..it seems story-writers trying to steal some chapters before the end of this arc/bleach. kinda like filler-chapters. but i think it will be okay if we start to see some good fight. for now all we see nothing but talk and unnecessary talk....

THE KING
August 02, 2008, 06:57 AM
This character kind of reminds me of marylin from bepop.

For a moment, I got a feeling that Gin is gonna betray Aizen in the future and get killed in the process.

walkie
August 02, 2008, 07:28 AM
For a moment, I got a feeling that Gin is gonna betray Aizen in the future and get killed in the process.

well i always thought that if someone gonna betray aizen it will be gin not tousen..tousen is blind and he choose his path on own for sure, but gin? may be he is under illusion of aizen, probably not but may be he is with aizen to see his powers and find a way to stop him. because he has some relationships with other shinigamis unlike aizen and tousen, which makes me think that gin is a lot closer to other side than tousen..but in the end may be nobody will betray aizen who knows..

THE KING
August 02, 2008, 07:34 AM
the thing that struck me was, that gin looks too cool to be a villain. lolz

gigantor21
August 02, 2008, 07:39 AM
Ryu, there has to be a balance. We've had too much random fighting in the main story; the HM Arc was little else. I'd have killed to see more actual storytelling.

With all the different fronts to the battle, Kubo has spent the last two chapters on the pillars. The first simply introducing the Fracciones, while the second had 2 of them release as Yumi and Charlotte called each other ugly. Does Kubo really think that this is what we want to see?

His approach to the story has been as boring as any filler IMO.

hossice
August 02, 2008, 11:54 AM
the next chapter IMO is gonna be the other 2 fighting there opponents w/ both releasing but only one shown like this one. or show izurus opponents release then what i stated before.

The Adamant Dragon
August 02, 2008, 12:37 PM
Well, that's an odd chapter... Nothing new. Kubo just keep deleying the Captains fights. The Only part that was interesting to me was Gin's Appearence in the chapter, Beside that... the discussions beetwen the caracters were random and there was no development in the story. This is actually the first chapter of bleach I hope I've never read... that travesty is too weird... Why did he have to go and create that caracter anyway!

Hope he surprises us in the next chapter. For me he might not know wich direction he wants to take his manga right now.

ryanzokuken
August 02, 2008, 02:01 PM
The Bleach Gaiden was amazing probablly far better then everything else that happened in Bleach so far(except maybe SS). Second of all I love fighting just this isn't very impressive fighting. What have we been building for the last few chapters... thats right tension. The Fantastic Four fights are doing a horrible job of keeping that tension. Not only that but their should be 2 other fights going on at the same exact time because theirs no way you can justify that.

In comparison One Piece has been doing a good job of that by keeping 2 major fights going on at the same time by switching the scenes and is making them extremely interesting. I expect as good from Kubo especially since this is near the end.

The only fights I'm looking forward to in the FF fights are Kira vs Abirama(the guy is funny) and maybe Hisagi vs Findor (depending on where Kubo takes it)

And honestly what can you expect from the Fantastic Four fight??? Ikakku pulling out a Bankai,Hisagi finally showing his Shikai, Yumi explaining his Shikai and possibly a Bankai to slaughter Coolhorn,Kira justifying Gins respect for him? I can guess most of the likely scenario's from what we've seen so far.

The Fantastic Four doesn't promise much interesting action from what I've seen. Perhaps it'll prove me wrong but I'm not expecting a very good fight. How do you even know about the Anime Fillers I for one have no clue what goes on in Anime Fillers.

And as for the last part, I like bleach because of interesting fights and some good characters. You seem to believe that Bleach only has one thing... fights.Let me guess your one of those people who loved the Kenpachi vs Nnoitra fight...


well i can't argue with you. you're probably completely right as to how the fights will go and whatnot. i guess it's just a difference of taste. i have no interest in seeing Kira fight, he bores me. Hisagi, i want to see what he can actually do.

but the squad 11 boys kick ass. i wanna see Ikkaku destroy Po, and i want to see Yumi's mysterious and deadly shikai in action, not just after the battle. plus as i was saying, i like the characters, so even if they dropped their weapons and had fist fights with the arrancar, i would still enjoy it. also, i mainly look forward to how everything will be in the anime. i only read the manga so i can be up on the story and what's going on sooner. but the anime makes it all better, obviously, being in color and animated and with sound and whatnot. and in each episode, they can show more than a chapter, so we won't have to be like "ugh what a waste, it just showed them screaming 'fugly' the whole time, now i have to wait until next week..."

these fights aren't useless to the story. they are defending these four pillars which Baragan insists on destroying. chapters like this week's don't advance the story, but if every chapter was half fighting, half story development, the fights wouldn't have enough time or space to be anything but lame.

i'm not one of those bloodythirsty fans who are just like "fiiiiiiiighhhhttttt zomg!!!" and don't care about the story, but yes, haha, i did like the Kenpachi Noitora fight. Kenpachi is a freakshow monster and it's fun when he gets his hands dirty. i dunno why people complained so much. yes, his fight was a mindless brawl, but before that we had Byakuya and Mayuri's fights, which were both strategic and tactical, and very intelligently written, espescially Mayuri's with how he finished Szayel.
so taking a break to show the two beasts of battle go at it was fun. :p

Grimjaww
August 02, 2008, 06:07 PM
well i always thought that if someone gonna betray aizen it will be gin not tousen..tousen is blind and he choose his path on own for sure, but gin? may be he is under illusion of aizen, probably not but may be he is with aizen to see his powers and find a way to stop him. because he has some relationships with other shinigamis unlike aizen and tousen, which makes me think that gin is a lot closer to other side than tousen..but in the end may be nobody will betray aizen who knows..

I kinda do agree with you on these points. Gin is the only one who can truly see behind Aizen's actions since he is one of the famous "geniuses". Maybe Gin is using Aizen for his own end, I mean they must be close on power level, or Gin may indeed be stronger. When Ichigo used shunpo to get past Aizen and Tousen and Gin to get to Rukia, Gin said something along the lines of not wanting to behead him. His reaitsu alone held down Chad, Orihime, Mustache Guy from 11th, and Ishida without him having to try to flex it.

Andonan
August 02, 2008, 06:20 PM
Nah there is no way that Gin is more powerful than Aizen, atm, I think it could be likely that Gin is planning on betraying Aizen, but whether it is too the benefit of SS or just himself who knows.

Yeah sorry I'm with the majority here Bleach has been lame since the Gaiden, ATM One Piece > Naruto > Bleach, I mean at least Naruto is got some cool character development going on, and the Hachibi, One Piece has been epic for ages now.....Bleach on the other hand has a guy who screams about flowers

Onomatopoeia
August 02, 2008, 09:10 PM
Shush Adonan you do not want to get the Naruto vs One Piece vs Bleach fight started. It never ends well.

And yeah Gin defintely isn't as strong as Aizen.

Devil-buster
August 02, 2008, 10:30 PM
What is all this talk about gin being as strong as aizen.....Gin is a genius...agreed....but aizen is the one who picked him out...not the other way around.....yes gin does still have attachments with his former comrades...but he is too scared to do something about it...if u remember kenpachi picked out gin and tousen as the only two people afraid to die.....and aizen literally turned the world upside down using just his brains and his shikai.....where as gin could barely handle hitsugaya....

Even if gin betrays aizen at some point, he would just get killed..

you think the espadas or vastolordes will follow someone weaker than them...especially a shinigami....

also if u look at the data book...you can see an obvious difference in their power levels....

Grimjaww
August 03, 2008, 12:36 AM
What is all this talk about gin being as strong as aizen.....Gin is a genius...agreed....but aizen is the one who picked him out...not the other way around.....yes gin does still have attachments with his former comrades...but he is too scared to do something about it...if u remember kenpachi picked out gin and tousen as the only two people afraid to die.....and aizen literally turned the world upside down using just his brains and his shikai.....where as gin could barely handle hitsugaya....

Even if gin betrays aizen at some point, he would just get killed..

you think the espadas or vastolordes will follow someone weaker than them...especially a shinigami....

also if u look at the data book...you can see an obvious difference in their power levels....

You can't base power levels based off a book if their true power has never been revealed in the manga or anime. I mean the databook has Hitsugaya and Byakuya close regarding their power levels, and we all know how inaccurate that is.

Devil-buster
August 03, 2008, 01:17 AM
You can't base power levels based off a book if their true power has never been revealed in the manga or anime. I mean the databook has Hitsugaya and Byakuya close regarding their power levels, and we all know how inaccurate that is.

actually aizens true power hasnt been revealed either....we have one seen his shikai and we know he is exceptionally skilled in kidou and has a reiatsu rivaling yamamoto....but we dont know how much of his true power that is...but we do know he defeated 3 captain class shinigami without breaking a sweat....

also about the databook think...I didnt put much emphasis on it thats why i put it last...but hitsugaya is pretty close to byakuya...in reality thats is not that false....only thing hitsugaya lacks is battle experience and also his power is still growing....I mean most of the top class missions are entrusted onto him by yamamoto....do u think thats not for a reason.....comparing hitsugaya with byakuya isnt fare....byakuya is one of the most complete captains there is....he is strong in kidou, sword figthting, shunpo...and he has mastered his zanpaktou more than any one we have seen so far....

Gin is a prodigy but so is hitsugaya.....so by ur theory hitsugaya may be secretly stronger than yamamoto....may he is masking his power.....rolf

also abt the part where ichigo shunpo-ed past him on hyogokyu hill....gin said that he didnt notice them coming......
I dont know where he holds down ishida and company with his reiatsu, but even if he did they r just humans....they cant fight against the reiatsu of a captain..

All I'm sayin is that from what we have seen so far...there is no way to say that gin is even close in power to aizen.....

also It wouldnt be good for the story to make gin defeat aizen...wat would ichigo do then...scratch his head...everything that has happened in bleach from the very beginning is because of aizen....so it would be totally ridiculous for someone other than the main protagonist to take out the main antagonist...

Onomatopoeia
August 03, 2008, 01:23 AM
I'm relatively sure that the Databooks only show the potential that the Shinigami can grow. So if Aizen has a 100 in something that means he's unlocked it to as far as he can. Someone else though might have far more say Offensive ability then him and only unlocked 70% of his ability but still have more offensive ability then Aizen so I wouldn't trust the Databooks completely.

Sharingan warrior
August 03, 2008, 02:09 AM
Ok chapter next week should be more of the sameshinigami vs arrancar with in my opinion arrancar starting off with the upper hand but then the shinigami ending the chapter on a high

ajaxsoccerjon
August 03, 2008, 09:51 AM
So I figure next week will be stupid Yumichika vs. stupid Coolhorn, and slightly less stupid Kira vs. Abirama.....again. :mad. Why oh why can't Kubo take lessons from Oda? Ooooh, or the Code Geass writers?

Raizen
August 03, 2008, 12:47 PM
These chapters are dragging forever. It is so boring. While I like the 4 guardians, I just wished that they killed each of their opponents in a chapter or maybe 1 1/2. But this is ridiculous.

Oh, and about the databooks. I think bleach powers are similar to pokemon. I know it sounds stupid but I think they are similar. Each pokemon (shinigamis) has different stats. While a pikachu may be on level 100, its speed is only 300 while another pikachu on level 92 is at a speed of 320. I think everyone has a different uniqueness about them that makes them while stronger in one field it weakens another. So aizen, while he has maxed out kido, his kido skills may not be as strong as lets say byakuya (hypothetically) who only is at 80 in the field of kido.

Devil-buster
August 03, 2008, 01:14 PM
I'm relatively sure that the Databooks only show the potential that the Shinigami can grow. So if Aizen has a 100 in something that means he's unlocked it to as far as he can. Someone else though might have far more say Offensive ability then him and only unlocked 70% of his ability but still have more offensive ability then Aizen so I wouldn't trust the Databooks completely.

I agree with you, databooks shouldnt be trusted that much, but I was just pointing it out since it was out there.....also it can work both was.....someone max ability(100) can be higher or lower than someone else's max ability....so lets say aizen at 100 kido can be 2 times more powerful than byakuya at 100 kido or something like that.....what I'm saying is someone personal level may be higher than someone else's personal max.....everyone has their own maximum....

But from what we have seen so far....I dont think anyone can rival aizen in his abilities except for may be yamamoto....this is considering he didnt turn into a vizrd himself...then his power would be much higher....

hossice
August 03, 2008, 08:02 PM
maybe the fight will go else where??? maybe kubo should just release a chapter for every fight. so like what.....10 chapters a week all based on there own fights. this is going to take a while unless aizen retreats after ALL espada r defeated. yammi included also the exq's. but it is going to go one for a while. we still got a year to 2 yrs. w/ flash backs. but im looking forward to it all. except coolhorn. i thought uryu, yumichika and szayel were bad but this beats them all.

yah what was the point of that one part of showing orihime and rukia training for the winter war then?

bittman
August 03, 2008, 11:14 PM
These would have been fights best done in the same way that the Zael fight was done where they cut to it whilst other, more important, battles take place. If the Espada and captains are still standing around while the pillar people fight there will be stabbings. That said, Kubo has always kept a continual passing of time up until now, so I expect things to be happening everywhere. This means I'm missing Uliquorra vs Ichigo...

Chapter made me laugh though. Go gay Fraccion!

Onomatopoeia
August 03, 2008, 11:49 PM
Don't be to sure, a lot of the time Ulquiorra and Ichigo talk a fair amount before the battle ever really happens. Beside's I'm pretty sure that Ulqiuiorra will be destroying Ichigo for the entire Fantastic 4 fights which isn't a bad idea really. We've seen Ichigo get destroyed by enough Arrancar so that we can just skip it already. I want to get to the end of the Ichigo gets destroyed by enemy phase and straight to the pull-out-some-cheap-techinque-that-doubles-my-power. In other words lots more control of the Ichigo's Vizard(spelling?) form.

Not that I dislike that second phase it's just a trend that I've noticed.

33808
August 04, 2008, 07:27 AM
What the hell is Kubo thinking? Giving so much attention to a 2nd rate character like Yumichika..... some highlights here and there are bearable but practically an entire chapter? Thats too much! Tho hopefully its cos he plans on killing him off (finally!). There are certainly many other more interesting characters deserving of that coveted spotlight....

Umbra Wolf
August 04, 2008, 07:37 AM
So I figure next week will be stupid Yumichika vs. stupid Coolhorn, and slightly less stupid Kira vs. Abirama.....again. :mad. Why oh why can't Kubo take lessons from Oda? Ooooh, or the Code Geass writers?
I'm afraid of the next chapters. I predict that we see the same introduction with Ikkaku's and Hisagi's hollow so Kubo can bore us to death. Slowly.

Mystic Moon
August 04, 2008, 10:53 AM
I'm hoping we see glimpses of Ikkaku and Hisagi. Findor has me interested with the whole 'then I will fight at VC level' thing. In a sense I want Kira's fight last, but at the same time i want it first. Cuz then it's probably gonna be the most interesting one.

Boagrious
August 04, 2008, 04:15 PM
I would like to see somebody pull out Bankai. I honestly think all of them are able to do it but haven't released it yet. Some surprises are about to be revealed my guess anyways.

hajialibaig
August 04, 2008, 04:43 PM
I bet by the time this series finishes, everyone will have a Bankai, including, Rukia...The whole theme behind Bankai's being something special has evaporated very quickly, for fan-service purposes.. how lame has this become

ShaunMati1
August 04, 2008, 05:12 PM
I bet by the time this series finishes, everyone will have a Bankai, including, Rukia...The whole theme behind Bankai's being something special has evaporated very quickly, for fan-service purposes.. how lame has this become

I freakin hope not. But i agree, bankai seemed like something so special. I think its because of ichigo. Every time byakuya uses bankai i get excited cuz he doesnt do it very often. But ichigo goes bankai everytime he fights and i think it brought down the uniqueness of bankai. Especially because ichigo cant completely use bankai yet so it seems like his bankai is trash.

gigantor21
August 04, 2008, 05:18 PM
I freakin hope not. But i agree, bankai seemed like something so special. I think its because of ichigo. Every time byakuya uses bankai i get excited cuz he doesnt do it very often. But ichigo goes bankai everytime he fights and i think it brought down the uniqueness of bankai. Especially because ichigo cant completely use bankai yet so it seems like his bankai is trash.

Agreed. That's exactly why I hated it when Ikkaku got it--and I'll hate it even more if the other three "Elites" have one. Not only has seeing it all the time cheapened it, but it's allowed Kubo to pad the fights with random abilities and explosions. The pillar fights, at least, leave room for more intimate, intelligent small-scale fighting.

Personally, I think Renji and Ichigo should've been the only non-Captains with Bankai.

Onomatopoeia
August 04, 2008, 05:31 PM
If all of the Fantastic Four gets Bankai I think that I'll just stop reading Bleach for a while because of how annoying that would be. Bankai was supposed to be something special that was rarely achieved and rarely used. Honestly Ichigo,Hitsugaya, Renji all use it way to much.

Grimjaww
August 04, 2008, 06:52 PM
If all of the Fantastic Four gets Bankai I think that I'll just stop reading Bleach for a while because of how annoying that would be. Bankai was supposed to be something special that was rarely achieved and rarely used. Honestly Ichigo,Hitsugaya, Renji all use it way to much.

Wtf is the point of Ichigo having a speed bankai if everyone is the same speed as him with the bankai. I mean, the only plus side to his bankai is the black getsuga tenshou, everyone else can keep up with his speed, the only battle was byakuya where he had an advantage.......

Eddy01741
August 04, 2008, 07:17 PM
Yeah, I think Kubo made Ichigo look too powerful when he first released his bankai+the huge speed boost, andn then he toned it down. I mean, Byakuya can manage to avoid zommari's sonido, which is the fastest of all espada, and Ichigo is matched IN BANKAI by grimmjow? Yeah....

However, at least Black GT makes up for his severe lack of kido.

Grimjaww
August 04, 2008, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I think Kubo made Ichigo look too powerful when he first released his bankai+the huge speed boost, andn then he toned it down. I mean, Byakuya can manage to avoid zommari's sonido, which is the fastest of all espada, and Ichigo is matched IN BANKAI by grimmjow? Yeah....

However, at least Black GT makes up for his severe lack of kido.

It's supposed to have a super huge gap in speed, but Kubo totally nerfed it. His bankai is like a regular shikai now, which is dissapointing.

bittman
August 04, 2008, 08:32 PM
Ichigo's bankai has become more famous for the kuroi getsuga, which isn't even his bankai's primary technique. I'd love Kubo to explain it away like "because Wichigo > Zangetsu, mask > bankai", but given Kubo probably thinking "oh yeah, the speed is fine" I doubt this.

And no. The fantastic four won't get/have bankai except Ikakku. That said, I would almost accept Kira getting it since he was one of the three focal vice captains of the Soul Society arc along with Renji and Hinamori (she won't get it though).

Disappointed we're missing the start of the Uliquorra v Ichigo fight considering how quickly it ended last time I imagined it would have been nice to show Ichigo was either on par, or close enough to, early on.

bigbyte
August 04, 2008, 08:33 PM
guys, we can't blame ichigo for using all the time. look at his opponents -- all captain level or higher: byakuya, grimmjow, dordonii (privaron espada), ulquiorra. how in the world can you even hope to win against them without bankai?
but I do agree that his bankai is not what it used to be, or at least not portrayed that way anymore. and bankais, in general, have lost their "appeal."
--
or may be his bankai loses its striking power when he uses super-shunpo. with iron-skinned espada, weak attacks are not an option; and he is forced to abandon his speed. obviously, pure speculation.

hossice
August 04, 2008, 08:37 PM
well isn't something when u open it the best at the beginning? like a new game? its great then it dies down after use. that could be related to ichigos bankai. just my opinion.

Onomatopoeia
August 04, 2008, 10:17 PM
guys, we can't blame ichigo for using all the time. look at his opponents -- all captain level or higher: byakuya, grimmjow, dordonii (privaron espada), ulquiorra. how in the world can you even hope to win against them without bankai?
but I do agree that his bankai is not what it used to be, or at least not portrayed that way anymore. and bankais, in general, have lost their "appeal."
--
or may be his bankai loses its striking power when he uses super-shunpo. with iron-skinned espada, weak attacks are not an option; and he is forced to abandon his speed. obviously, pure speculation.

Force=Mass * Accelaration. I expect despite Reiatsu being the main way to measure damage Kubo wouldn't forget this staple of physics. If you can injure someone then Mass times accelaration kicks in to see how much damage you can do or something along those lines.

Edit: We probablly won't see much of Hisagi based on the fact that him and Findor have gotten the least screen time. Though I could be wrong and they're saving the longest for last.

Grimjaww
August 05, 2008, 12:21 AM
Force=Mass * Accelaration. I expect despite Reiatsu being the main way to measure damage Kubo wouldn't forget this staple of physics. If you can injure someone then Mass times accelaration kicks in to see how much damage you can do or something along those lines.

Edit: We probablly won't see much of Hisagi based on the fact that him and Findor have gotten the least screen time. Though I could be wrong and they're saving the longest for last.


I agree with you on all those points. I mean he does seem to be the weakest out of all the elite 4, so his fight is probably all about trying is hardest to defeat the arrancar, and than maybe dies or Kensei comes to the rescue, once again.

Silhouette
August 05, 2008, 12:58 AM
As a matter of fact, new bankais should appear every few generations like Byakuya stated and considering that Kira, Renji, Hisagi and Ikkaku are the new generation of the past 100 years, chances are they SHOULD have bankai sooner or later (epecially Hisagi whose most senior). So there you have it about the rarity of bankai.



Force=Mass * Accelaration. I expect despite Reiatsu being the main way to measure damage Kubo wouldn't forget this staple of physics. If you can injure someone then Mass times accelaration kicks in to see how much damage you can do or something along those lines.


You're forgetting that spirit matter is made up of spiritons not atoms. Although the physics rule you're stating is true, I wonder if it applies or even holds true to paranormals (i.e souls and spirits).

Andonan
August 05, 2008, 03:02 AM
Well something that irritates me is that Kubo just abandoned the whole "Zangestu" training ichigo in his mind/ becoming one with your sword aspect of bleach. I know his hollow form took his position in his mind and stuff, but that just irritated me, but it could also be an explanation for his weakening of Bankai, considering bankai is suppose to be the final form of a shinigami being completely ins inc with your sword, I think the fact that Zangestu lack of presence could weaken it........

gold349
August 05, 2008, 03:05 AM
How ever we look at it Ichigo's bankai, has it seems dulled instead of gradual increase in strength power and over all speed. It looks more like everyday normal compared to how ubber it/he looked when it was first introduced.

Silhouette
August 05, 2008, 04:16 AM
Ichigo lost the ability to use the power of his bankai right after he used it, it happened in SS ch 165 pg 13 (http://www.bleachanime.org/manga/Bleach-Chapter-165/165-13.jpg.php)and pg 14 (http://www.bleachanime.org/manga/Bleach-Chapter-165/165-14.jpg.php)

You can read an explanation Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=881278&postcount=19)

I would recommend discussing the decline of Ichigo's bankai (or rather Ichigo's current inability to fully utilize it) Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31730&page=2). It's an interesting thread.

Devil-buster
August 05, 2008, 11:56 AM
Actually I dont mind seeing the four attain bankai...I mean they were undergoing bankai training....they r all vice captain or nearly captain level...so it wouldnt be so difficult to believe....most of the captains now r vice captains from the past....or lower levels....like urahara was 3rd seat and got promoted directly to captain...

@silhouette....ANd about ichigo's bankai..he did not loose the ability to use his spped all together....just in the fight with byakuya.....because of all his injuries...once he healed he should be back to normal...and it can be confirmed from the fact that hollow ichigo used his bankai to his fullest against byakuya since he did not feel any pain...

Silhouette
August 05, 2008, 01:10 PM
@silhouette....ANd about ichigo's bankai..he did not loose the ability to use his spped all together....just in the fight with byakuya.....because of all his injuries...once he healed he should be back to normal...and it can be confirmed from the fact that hollow ichigo used his bankai to his fullest against byakuya since he did not feel any pain...

That's what I thought then but after re-reading ch 165 and 166, it became clear that Byakuya inflected so much injuries because Ichigo lost his peed not the other way around. Shirosaki was fast because became in control of Zangetsu (bankai) at that moment. Even if Shirosaki wasn't injured, he was still coming out which means he was practically still using Ichigo's injured body when he owned Byakuya. Maybe reading the explanation linked in my previous post will make things clearer.

I wouldn't mind discussing this further if you want but let's keep it in the appropriate thread linked in my previous post.

Onomatopoeia
August 05, 2008, 03:10 PM
Actually I dont mind seeing the four attain bankai...I mean they were undergoing bankai training....they r all vice captain or nearly captain level...so it wouldnt be so difficult to believe....most of the captains now r vice captains from the past....or lower levels....like urahara was 3rd seat and got promoted directly to captain...

@silhouette....ANd about ichigo's bankai..he did not loose the ability to use his spped all together....just in the fight with byakuya.....because of all his injuries...once he healed he should be back to normal...and it can be confirmed from the fact that hollow ichigo used his bankai to his fullest against byakuya since he did not feel any pain...


Thats only Yumichaka. And Urahara is a very special case, remember he only achived Bankai in an extremely Plotkaish way. So it makes sense that he went from third seat to Captain.

Flight-47
August 05, 2008, 03:44 PM
Agreed.

Yumichika is the only person I can see from this group obtaining Bankai, because his seat level means nothing. Ikkaku and Yumichika are only still beside Zaraki because Ikkaku wants to die serving under Zaraki's command, out of respect, and Yumichika is staying so he can be beside Ikkaku as a friend.
And Yumichika explained that he's 5th seat because it's similar to the number 3 (it's an odd number), so that's why he picked that seat.


Kira, Hisage? We have no clue how strong they are nor how long they were Vice Captains. So far the only Vice Captain to be lucky to obtain Bankai is Renji, and that's because he's one of the 6 main characters.


Next to that, the only other Vice Captain I can assume MIGHT have achieved Bankai level is Yachiru, since she seems pretty powerful, yet mysteriously never fights thanks to Kenpachi XD
Iba too maybe. His and Ikkaku conversation leads me to think he's the kind of man to obtain greatness but still stay one step behind the top group.

Woops, forgot the First Squad Vice Captain, who we know nothing about. As far as we know, he may be Captain level, seeing how Genryuusai is above Captain level.

I'd expect the 1st Squad Vice Captain to be the strongest Vice Captain seeing how he's just one step under the Commander.

taniquetil
August 05, 2008, 07:16 PM
From what I can gather Bankai at the moment doesn't really mean much in terms of power in terms of the storyline. Sure when Ichigo achieved Bankai it probably made a difference but since then it doesn't seem so.

For example, during the first Arrancar fight, Hitsugaya and Ikkaku and Renji all needed bankai to win against whoever they fought, but Rukia and Matsumoto both won with shikai alone, so bankai seems at the moment to just be a way to show off massive powers that make the readers cream, it doesn't seem to be the case that it was when Ichigo faced Byakuya, with bankai finally giving him the power he needed to go from being owned to fighting on even footing.

For example, in the most recent story arc, bankai Renji and Uryuu couldn't beat Espada 8 but shikai Rukia could beat number 9, and I don't think that there would be that big of a difference between 8 and 9.

Anyways, I predict this next chapter will be a whole lot more of nothing. This previous chapter kinda disappointed me, and the Arrancar fighting Yumichika seems to be a really boring albeit interesting character. It'll just be more people yelling each other. Hopefully Kubo will prove me wrong.

Onomatopoeia
August 05, 2008, 07:34 PM
From what I can gather Bankai at the moment doesn't really mean much in terms of power in terms of the storyline. Sure when Ichigo achieved Bankai it probably made a difference but since then it doesn't seem so.

For example, during the first Arrancar fight, Hitsugaya and Ikkaku and Renji all needed bankai to win against whoever they fought, but Rukia and Matsumoto both won with shikai alone, so bankai seems at the moment to just be a way to show off massive powers that make the readers cream, it doesn't seem to be the case that it was when Ichigo faced Byakuya, with bankai finally giving him the power he needed to go from being owned to fighting on even footing.

For example, in the most recent story arc, bankai Renji and Uryuu couldn't beat Espada 8 but shikai Rukia could beat number 9, and I don't think that there would be that big of a difference between 8 and 9.



Renji's Bankai and most of Uryuu's skills were nullified by Szayel and Aizen himself said that Szayel should be far higher up the number list, probablly at 5or 6 from how pissed Szayel was. The only reason he wasn't high up their was that he could be beaten by Mayuri easily. Secondly Rukia's battle with AA was massive amounts of Plotkai and don't try to argue about it.

Lemonadez
August 05, 2008, 08:24 PM
Renji's Bankai and most of Uryuu's skills were nullified by Szayel and Aizen himself said that Szayel should be far higher up the number list, probablly at 5or 6 from how pissed Szayel was. The only reason he wasn't high up their was that he could be beaten by Mayuri easily. Secondly Rukia's battle with AA was massive amounts of Plotkai and don't try to argue about it.

Its not ABC method lol.

Let say Syazeal was defeated by Mayuri cuz of Mayuri abilities. Its not that Mayuri is stronger than Syazeal.

Uryuu defeated Mayuri, cuz Uryuu was stronger than Mayuri. But Syazeal was stronger than Uryuu.

So its not A->B->C crap method ;p

Onomatopoeia
August 05, 2008, 08:36 PM
Its not ABC method lol.

Let say Syazeal was defeated by Mayuri cuz of Mayuri abilities. Its not that Mayuri is stronger than Syazeal.

Uryuu defeated Mayuri, cuz Uryuu was stronger than Mayuri. But Syazeal was stronger than Uryuu.

So its not A->B->C crap method ;p

Mayuri only beat Szyael because his abilities were practiclly specially made to beat him.
Secondly Ishida only beat Mayuri because of Quincy Godmode which increases his power 10-fold(or something along those lines) and is only a one time thing so yes it is ABC crap method

igotthegoods
August 05, 2008, 09:49 PM
ok, this discussion is getting way off-topic, even after a couple of reminders posted by Silhouette. ^^;; any discussion of which character is stronger than another character can be done here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27705). please bring the topic back to discussing the current chapter and predictions for the next one. any more off-topic posts may be deleted. thank you.

//edit - also any talk about possible vice-captain bankais can be discussed here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11652&page=3) ^^

hossice
August 05, 2008, 10:10 PM
sooooooooooooooooooooo anyways uhhhh maybe we see hitsugya flash-back 2? jk that would kill it even more. i want to see findor(l?). he is so kick ass. and abirama. aparently his zanpaktous name aguila means like eagle or something. so maybe he gets wings?

Onomatopoeia
August 05, 2008, 10:12 PM
Sadly their isn't much to discuss but erm.. well I suppose the only thing that really hasn't been discussed to death is what in the world will Hisagi's Shikai be like? Theirs nothing really that distinctive about him that would give us any real clue(except for the 69 but...yeah) the only thing I can see is something reminscent of Kensei's shikai.

Andonan
August 05, 2008, 10:49 PM
Well I really want to see them all attain bankai, I think all three deserve it for different reasons haha, Hisagi is cool and I think he needs it for a possible upcoming battle against Tousen, Yumchi because he is obviously the coolest of the three, And Kira for the same reason as Hisagi, he needs it so he can take on Gin (obviously with the help of the other captains haha)

Grimjaww
August 06, 2008, 03:01 AM
Well I really want to see them all attain bankai, I think all three deserve it for different reasons haha, Hisagi is cool and I think he needs it for a possible upcoming battle against Tousen, Yumchi because he is obviously the coolest of the three, And Kira for the same reason as Hisagi, he needs it so he can take on Gin (obviously with the help of the other captains haha)

Well I think we already know who Gin and Tousen are going to have to fight............. but I do agree that both of them need it, not against their ex captains, but against the arrancar they are fighting. I mean if Ikkaku needed it against one of Grimmjow's fraccion, just imagine how strong Barragan's will be, I'm sure that guy can not tolerate weak people.

Andonan
August 06, 2008, 04:04 AM
@Grim

Yeah your totally correct Grim, I totally hope that these battle will end quickly though haha

Fallen.
August 06, 2008, 09:27 AM
Actually they were still limited when ikkaku decided to use his bankai,the power limit thing soul society had set up wasn't fully lowered,so this is probably gonna be different I hope.

hossice
August 06, 2008, 03:10 PM
Actually they were still limited when ikkaku decided to use his bankai,the power limit thing soul society had set up wasn't fully lowered,so this is probably gonna be different I hope.

the limit was only for captains and vice captains.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/210/06/

and since ikkaku isn't vice captain or captain>no limit