View Full Version : Defense for the Elders
August 05, 2008, 06:08 PM
Why is it that everyone assumes the Elders are evil, and that Danzo is a Traitor? Are there not two sides to every story? We have only heard one side; Madara’s, and are you willing to condemn the Elders to death based on the villains side of the story? One-sided allegations more often than not prove False.
There is no proof of the Elders, or Danzo for that matter, conspiring against the village. The Elders were life long companions of the Hokage, being on the same team and all. What motive do they have to conspirer against the Uchiha? Only Madara’s.
Even Danzo, a Militant, has proven his loyalty to the village. After trying to get Sai to kill Sasuke, so that Orochimaru would not take over his body and finish what he started at the village.
Now I admit the Elders and Danzo have no love for Naruto. That is because they only see him as a weapon. An it issuant a good idea to show your weapons to everyone because someone mite take it and use it agent you.
I propose this as a defense until Kishimoto-sensei can do one better:
Ok, let’s assume Sasuke sneaks into the village undetected and finds the Elders in some room some ware talking to each other. (he’s a Ninja, it could happen)
Sasuke: You ordered Itachi to kill the Uchiha.
Saauke: I will avenge my clan.
Homura: You have been misinformed.
Koharu: It was Itachi that came to us, for advice.
Itachi: My father is holding secret meetings with the Uchiha.
Koharu: What is said at these meetings?
Itachi: They plan to start a coup d’état and take over control of the village.
Homura: You are an Uchiha.
Homura: Why are you telling us this?
Itachi: I am an Anbu and loyal to the Hokage.
Itachi: Also, I worry that this coup will start a Civil War amongst the village.
Koharu: If you are a loyal Anbo as you say.
Kokaru: Why have you not brought this to the attention of the Hokage?
Itachi: I seek your wisdom.
Koharu: How do you propose we deal with this situation?
Danzo: We must strike first and decisive.
Danzo: Destroy the traitors once and for all.
Hokage: No, we would be no better than them.
Hokage: Genocide is not the answer.
Itachi: The Uchiha will not stop until they have power over the Senju.
Koharu: What do you propose then?
Itachi: I agree with Danzo, but I will do it … Alone.
Homura: One Uchiha against many.
Homura: What if you are defeated, Itachi?
Itachi: Whether I live or die doesn’t matter.
Itachi: The Senju will have complete deniability and the village will not be involved.
Hokage: If you feel this is the only way, Itachi, we will not interfere.
Back to World
Sasuke: NO! It can’t be.
Homura: It is the Truth.
Sasuke: I’m so confused.
Until the Elders have presented there side of the story, they should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
August 05, 2008, 09:51 PM
Nice script, I don't believe the Elders are evil I really don't believe Danzo is necessarily evil either. They just have different vision for the village than Sarutobi had or Tsunade has.
When shit hit's the fan, best believe the top "root" ANBU will be ready to protect Danzo with thier lives. Plus Danzo can probably still rumble maybe not like in his prime but still close to a S class level, guy's don't forget old lady Chiyo was still able to put in work on Sasori.
Also Koharu and Homura are students of the 1st and 2nd Hokages and teammates of the 3rd, and are still relevant to the operation of the village. Plus I bet they are/were S class ninjas in their own right. None of the Elders will be a easy out for Sasuke.
August 06, 2008, 05:34 AM
I have no defense for the elders, so I can't say whether they're the bad guys or not, but as for danzo...a very wise character once said, "beware of root..." I'm sticking to that.
August 06, 2008, 06:20 AM
very nice script, i must say.
and you bring up a good point.
if sasuke were to be told another storey, i wonder how he would act.
itachi did say hes still very pure and he can be painted any colour. i wonder what he would do if they told him something along those lines. i can see him just breaking down.
August 06, 2008, 07:04 AM
if that happens the hate between Sasuke and Konoha will boost up!
August 06, 2008, 09:58 AM
Well as it is, we do have one side of the story, so yes, hearing another side would be nice to at least maybe piece things better.
We don't know who's truly at fault and IMHO, everyone more or less is at fault for either directly or indirectly causing the massacre, or letting it happen.
I'll go with Madara's side of the story just to show it still works.
- The Elders seemed to have issued the ordered the massacre itself in retaliation for an eventual coup.
- Danzou was in agreement.
- Sandaime let the whole thing happen under his jurisdiction.
- Itachi committed the act.
- Madara helped Itachi commit the act and fueled the initial grudge between Senju & Uchiha(which later led to the supposed 'coup').
- Kyuubi(yes Kyuubi :blink) was one of the key factors which supplemented the Elders' ideas of Uchiha planning a coup.
August 06, 2008, 05:56 PM
Thank you for the compliment, and an excellent point. Sasuke would probably get his but whooped and made to stand with his nose in a corner until Ibiki arrived.
@ b e a n
I have always enjoyed your posts, and I’m honored that you posted here. To be honest, I added Danzo in after I wrote the script. I got to thinking, Danzo is no spring chicken, a militant – yes, a traitor - maybe not.
If you will, ponder on this: maybe the mistrust between the Hokage and Danzo is simply a difference in opinion. The same goal: the strength of the village; but two different methods of obtaining it. Maybe Jiraiya’s warning was simply: Make sure Root doesn’t do anything stupid.
@ S.I.M Editor
Thank you for the compliment, and I agree.
Not necessarily, I think Sasuke will eventually redeem himself with the village somehow. This could lead to him becoming a spy for the village, but that mite just be wishful thinking.
I do not disagree. According to Madara, Itachi was ordered to kill his clan, and that the Elders essentially held a Kunai to his head saying: do it or else. My Theory is that Itachi volunteered to sacrifice his life in order to protect the innocent, by stopping the coup that would have started a civil war, destabilizing the region, and Triggering the 4th world war. (Let me catch my breath) Hopefully, Sasuke will see that the annihilation of the Uchiha clan was for the grater good.
August 20, 2008, 02:10 AM
Hokage: If you feel this is the only way, Itachi, we will not interfere.
You have a different impression of Sarutobi than I do, but Sarutobi is not Danzo. What is the difference among instigating a great evil, being instrumental in making it happen, and allowing it to happen when you could it? Not a lot but in your story, Sarutobi doesn't even rise to the latter, but instead is little better than Danzo. He doesn't instigate, but he pretty much gives his blessing.
That's not the Sarutobi we know. For what we have been shown, for him, like the first Hokage, the village was always first, and unlike Danzou, who seems to believe that the Senju come before all, including the village, Sarutobi has never given that impression.
I guess we'll see. But if it turns out this way... Ugghhhh! That would be a waste of a few years of following this manga... I prefer stories where even the supposedly good are not psychopathic mass murderers, or at least abetters of the same.
August 20, 2008, 03:33 AM
I don't think the elders are particularly evil just set in the old ways of thinking i.e. if it poses even the slightest threat kill it. Danzo on the other hand i do not trust in the slightest he undermines the hokage and is not trusted by characters who had only the best wishes for the village namely j-man.
August 20, 2008, 09:46 AM
I don't think we should be looking at these people in terms of 'evil' or 'good'. One could easily argue that Pain is 'good' since all he is trying to do is attain world peace (he just has a, uh, different way of going about it). I think the one thing we can no longer deny is that the elders have the village first and foremost on thier priority list. Everything they do, they do for the village. Even Danzo. This means that they will do anything to better their village, even if it means throwing a coup and ousting the current Hokage (if they feel that said Hokage is not running things to their satisfaction). There is no question that Danzo dislikes the peaceful ways the Third and the Fith have gone about ruling the Leaf, so it would not be much of a stretch for him and his 'root' to try and overtake the Hokage to strengthen Konoha. To the elders, and Danzo especially, the ends justify the means.
I won't try to give an account of what a conversation between the elders/hokage/itachi was like, but I will say we know for sure that the Hokage didn't back the plan. It's stated in the manga that the Third felt that they could negotiate and solve their problems piecefully.
August 20, 2008, 09:57 AM
maybe Itachi knew that Madara would go to war against Konoha if he knew about the Uchiha coup and allied to him with that in mind
would be nice, because would show that Madara was tricked by Itachi
like if he knew before about the truce, he would go for it
August 20, 2008, 12:22 PM
I dont think the elders are evil, they simply acted based on the evidence they had.
At the foundation of the village madara controlled they kyubi to attack the village and was defeated by shodai.
Based on the page were jiraiya mentioned madara to the key frog, It is safe to assume that at least the higher ups in the village were aware that uchihas have the ability to control kyubii under certain conditions.
I remember madara said that uchiha became a dog of senju and later on other uchihas realize it too. This means the uchiha clan was not happy with their position on the village. This is why later on nindaime gave the uchiha control of the pilice force or something like that. This worked both, as a sing of trust in the uchiha and a way to keep them in check.
Sarutobi and elders were most likely aware of all of this details considering they were always close to shodai and nindaime.
Later on, kyubi for no apparent reason attacked the village and they were all saved by minato.
And finaly years later they learn about the uchiha coup de tat. They try to connect a few dots and see that most likely the attack of the demon fox was caused by an uchiha and there is an inminent take over.
Now, could the elders have done anything else to avoid the masacre?
No, even madara said that sarutobi tried to negotiate and failed. Even if the uchiha were not responsible for any of the fox´s attacks, they were completely responsible for planning a coup de tat which could start a new ninja war.
The elders and itachi did what they had to do.
August 25, 2008, 09:01 PM
Well, to me, Danzou is a war hawk and the elders are old and stuck in the ways of the past. I'm sure they believe they are acting in the best interest of THEIR Konoha, but the best interest of Konoha to those people I would liken to the best interest of America according to the Bush administration. I think they need to catch a good case of death.
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