Naruto Volume 45 (Ch. 413-422) Discussion

[viat0r]

I think that kakashi will use ms in this fight eventually when he is done he will survuve but will be in the hospital (per usual) but will have valuable information about pain to pass on to naruto. Pain is NArutos fight i cant see kishi NOT letting naruto avenge jiraiya

[uchiha-Kakashi]

@ segua what about memories. Implanting a piece of memory into naruto's subconscious you know about sharingan and showing visions to others. some kind of memory itachi performing a technique. Or ,maybe itachi transferred a piece of his subconscious to naruto so naruto does not oly have kyuubi inside him, but also itachi :).

Then he is also allowed to use Mangekyo Sharingan.:mad

[patedecarne]

Haha, that was LOL, because no one was expecting Chouji and his father helping Kakashi;

anyway, that victory was totally weird; I don't know if Kishi was try to censor that scene, with the blood and bones, maybe it'll be too hardcore to show...

Well, Hidan's head was a hardcore scene, but not THAT hardcore, I think...

[Atemu]

Then he is also allowed to use Mangekyo Sharingan.:mad

Where did you get that? :amuse. Seriously everything is possible for kishi. all we can do is try to predict and speculate

[jodi]

Haha, that was LOL, because no one was expecting Chouji and his father helping Kakashi;

anyway, that victory was totally weird; I don't know if Kishi was try to censor that scene, with the blood and bones, maybe it'll be too hardcore to show...

Well, Hidan's head was a hardcore scene, but not THAT hardcore, I think...

Hidan was quite a hardcore blood scene

blood pupping out of his and Asuma's mouth everytime

pieces of hidan on the floor

then, demon pain is smashed and only appear to be normally hit by a normal punch =p

[lvarella]

That's why I think Demon Realm will get up and fight again.

[gold349]

Haha, that was LOL, because no one was expecting Chouji and his father helping Kakashi;

anyway, that victory was totally weird; I don't know if Kishi was try to censor that scene, with the blood and bones, maybe it'll be too hardcore to show...

Well, Hidan's head was a hardcore scene, but not THAT hardcore, I think...


I didn't think it was that bad, I was more surprised at the language he used. Hidan was a 'G' hahah he had diarrhoea of the mouth :p, scenes such as Hidan being dismembered and that, I suppose producers/author can use the excuse...its a ninja profession the language being used is hard core as is the killing techniques etc etc.

One thing I did like in that encounter was shika's shadow sowing technique.

Shika's father should have better and more shadow based jutsu. Now that the Akamichi's are involved and Shika and his dad are on the way to make contact, we should see some ubber soldier pills from the Akamichi's and see some ubber shadow techniques from the Nara's (anybody know his name, Shika dad).

[patedecarne]

C'mon, guys, not here to discuss whether Naruto or Sasuke are Kage level or not, please...

Please use the Toshokan or the Hangout ^^

further posts with this subject should be deleted.

[Kage Level]

man, i don't know if i'm digging Pein fighting all of these ninja before Naruto and not totally owning them. with info from Jaraiya and now Kakashi, what's going to be left for Naruto to figure out when he takes on Pein? Kind of takes the clever part out for Naruto. it's like them saying Naruto just hit right here and it's over. in this arc, Naruto doesn't seem to figure anything out on his own. before, he would figure it out and everyone would be surprised because it's Naruto. Naruto arrived at the end with Kakuzu and was told about his hearts. Kakashi was guiding him against Deidara. he went loco against Oro. it's like he's getting a cheat sheet this arc.

[segua]

@ segua what about memories. Implanting a piece of memory into naruto's subconscious you know about sharingan and showing visions to others. some kind of memory itachi performing a technique. Or ,maybe itachi transferred a piece of his subconscious to naruto so naruto does not oly have kyuubi inside him, but also itachi :).

That would be possible. Who really knows what Itachi is possible of. The guy was able to set a trap for Madara using Sasuke's eyes right before he died. Itachi never cease to surprise right.


You know, about the whole Pain being able draw in Kakashi. What if it had to do with the time Kakashi got stabbed. When he was pulled in, didn't he felt the same sensation as when he was stabbed with that chakra conductor?

You know, I'm starting to think that Pain's technique for the body is similar in a way to puppetry. The black objects could allow for a much more complex control than say Sasori or Chiyo could afford with their own techniques. Another possibility is tha Pain might also be hiding in someone too. Maybe Pain might pop out of Konan's body something akin to Ninja Scroll Resurrection? But when the real Pain does so up, things will really heat up. Oh well, we'll see who the real Pain is after all the bodies are broken and dead.

[Atemu]

I may have a topic we could discuss here. properly mentioned before, which of pain could revive the deads/stabbed ones in the fight with j-man. I think its the god realm. well i think its godly power to revive the nearly dead or properly dead ones. other thing is that even each of them can only use one kind of technique it doesn't mean they have to use the same ones all the time.

[Huey Freeman]

I may have a topic we could discuss here. properly mentioned before, which of pain could revive the deads/stabbed ones in the fight with j-man. I think its the god realm. well i think its godly power to revive the nearly dead or properly dead ones. other thing is that even each of them can only use one kind of technique it doesn't mean they have to use the same ones all the time.

It was never determined how they came back to life and that is a topic of contention here. Some think that perhaps it's not the work of one of the bodies. I tend to agree with that line of thinking. They seem to be animated by chakra the receivers. No particular body seems to control those.

[segua]

It seems that Yahiko-Pain does have control over chakra as shown by his abilities to reject and draw in anything with his chakra or from the impression that I got was anything that produces chakra. I wouldn't be surprise if Yahiko-Pain could also instill chakra into one of those bodies. Chakra is a source of life and if that source of life gets knocked out, it could always be restored.

You know what I really want to see though is if Pain might be able to reclaim that captured body of his, the Fuuma-Pein body.

Also, I just got to note down something, each Pain has their own specilized abilities yet they also have that standard attack that utilizes that black object as a spear.

[Atemu]

It was never determined how they came back to life and that is a topic of contention here. Some think that perhaps it's not the work of one of the bodies. I tend to agree with that line of thinking. They seem to be animated by chakra the receivers. No particular body seems to control those.

yes may be right here. this could be the work of the one controlling the bodies. hmm i have a idea. what if we could pretend that the bodies are some kind of machines. You input some data and make them do your bidding. they are continually receiving signals and with that determine what kind of techniques they should have

[vintagemistakes]

I may have a topic we could discuss here. properly mentioned before, which of pain could revive the deads/stabbed ones in the fight with j-man. I think its the god realm. well i think its godly power to revive the nearly dead or properly dead ones. other thing is that even each of them can only use one kind of technique it doesn't mean they have to use the same ones all the time.
I personally don't think any of them had to be revived in the Jiraiya battle... I think that they were just playing dead in order to get Jiraiya to lower his guard. If you look back, it's too difficult to tell if any of their chakra piercings/rods were broken by the inpalement to safely say that they were killed since we know now that the only way to "kill" them is to break the chakra rods/poles... Plus Pa Frog said that he didn't know of any technique that could revive three bodies like that. I know his word is law, but I do trust his knowledge...

edit: I actually think that the bodies are dead to begin with(reason for the sleep/preservation chambers maybe... its just Nagatos chakra running through the rods that animates them...

[Huey Freeman]

It seems that Yahiko-Pain does have control over chakra as shown by his abilities to reject and draw in anything with his chakra or from the impression that I got was anything that produces chakra. I wouldn't be surprise if Yahiko-Pain could also instill chakra into one of those bodies. Chakra is a source of life and if that source of life gets knocked out, it could always be restored.

You know what I really want to see though is if Pain might be able to reclaim that captured body of his, the Fuuma-Pein body.

Also, I just got to note down something, each Pain has their own specilized abilities yet they also have that standard attack that utilizes that black object as a spear.

I guess that makes sense, but we don't fully know what Yahiko(god) Pain is doing yet. For all we know, it could be like a gravity or electromagnetic shield.

I doubt he can reclaim the former animal realm body at this point since they removed the black control rods.

Those black rods had always been a bit of a mystery. They are obviously (at least most likely) the same material as the chakra receivers. They seem to grow out of each body similarly to the way bone came from Kimmimaro. We have seen the immediate effect twice when it disturbs ones chakra after piercing the body. What more is there to it I wonder. Is there a lasting affect? Like everything with this guy, it's a mystery.

[uchiha-Kakashi]

Maybe only a doujutsu user can beat Pein.

[Huey Freeman]

I personally don't think any of them had to be revived in the Jiraiya battle... I think that they were just playing dead in order to get Jiraiya to lower his guard. If you look back, it's too difficult to tell if any of their chakra piercings/rods were broken by the inpalement to safely say that they were killed since we know now that the only way to "kill" them is to break the chakra rods/poles... Plus Pa Frog said that he didn't know of any technique that could revive three bodies like that. I know his word is law, but I do trust his knowledge...

edit: I actually think that the bodies are dead to begin with(reason for the sleep/preservation chambers maybe... its just Nagatos chakra running through the rods that animates them...

I think most people think it is Nagato at this point and Konan is a close second. There are other opinions, but I'm going all in on Nagato.

[Atemu]

I personally don't think any of them had to be revived in the Jiraiya battle... I think that they were just playing dead in order to get Jiraiya to lower his guard. If you look back, it's too difficult to tell if any of their chakra piercings/rods were broken by the inpalement to safely say that they were killed since we know now that the only way to "kill" them is to break the chakra rods/poles... Plus Pa Frog said that he didn't know of any technique that could revive three bodies like that. I know his word is law, but I do trust his knowledge...

edit: I actually think that the bodies are dead to begin with(reason for the sleep/preservation chambers maybe... its just Nagatos chakra running through the rods that animates them...

Well jiraya was pretty sure that the bodies were dead. i do agree with you that the bodies were dead from the beginning. If we think that they were playing dead, then maybe we should also consider that they on purposely got there self trapped into frog genjutsu to lure jiraya

[Delbi]

I think most people think it is Nagato at this point and Konan is a close second. There are other opinions, but I'm going all in on Nagato.

I think people would be stupid to deny that Pain is Nagato, I mean Nagato was the one to awaken the Rinnegain not Konan, and she has been seen taking orders from Pain, so why the hell would she be in control of the bodies?

Nagato is the "real one that isn't there" as it was decoded in the message.

[Alex_1]

It was never determined how they came back to life and that is a topic of contention here. Some think that perhaps it's not the work of one of the bodies. I tend to agree with that line of thinking. They seem to be animated by chakra the receivers. No particular body seems to control those.

Exactly. And it falls in line with what Yahiko Pein said when he faced Jiraiya - "Make no mistake, Yahiko is dead. The man standing here now is Pein. No-one else.". So, it may be that Jiraiya never killed them because they were never alive to begin with. They were receiving chakra from the black receivers. So, there may be one or two ways to destroy Pein.

1: Immobilize him. That is, when in contact with the bodies, destroy the chakra receivers.
2: Destroy it's source. That is, find out where/how the transmission was being sent, and *deactivate* it.

#2 goes along with Jiraiya's information as well, with "The real one's not there".

Because of that, IMO it again begs the question of what happened to Nagato and Konan. Because we don't know what is the biggest mystery of all with Pein = Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan/and the battle they must have lost, and what made "Pein" the being he/it is. I think we still have plenty of room for an encounter between Pein and Naruto even with this invasion arc. It just thickens the plot, even if Pein is somewhat running out of time.

[Strider's♥Death]

I personally don't think any of them had to be revived in the Jiraiya battle... I think that they were just playing dead in order to get Jiraiya to lower his guard. If you look back, it's too difficult to tell if any of their chakra piercings/rods were broken by the inpalement to safely say that they were killed since we know now that the only way to "kill" them is to break the chakra rods/poles... Plus Pa Frog said that he didn't know of any technique that could revive three bodies like that. I know his word is law, but I do trust his knowledge...

edit: I actually think that the bodies are dead to begin with(reason for the sleep/preservation chambers maybe... its just Nagatos chakra running through the rods that animates them...
Well the chakara thats getting received needs to circulate around the body like any other body. So its probably likely that when jiraiya did that genjutsu it caused heavy damage to the body(and probbaly sumthing in it that helps circulate the chakara in the body so if there was a pain that can heal or repair or bring back sumone ), that may be why they didnt move. Either that, even thought the pain bodies receive chakara, they might not be able to sustain heavy damage. So after heavy damage they can either be repaired/revived or replaced and I think the bodies jiraiya fought were repaired/revived and not playing dead.

y is my message being deleted i havent said anything wrong i feel like my right to talk has been delete
Because it does not relate to anything on this thread.

[vintagemistakes]

I think most people think it is Nagato at this point and Konan is a close second. There are other opinions, but I'm going all in on Nagato.
I don't know whether I'd laugh or cry if Konan was the "real one".

I used to think that it was Rikudo who was in control, or at least some combination of him and Nagato, but for some reason I have fallen off that train of thought lately. It probably has to do with the fact that Pain is being portrayed less and less as a "god" and more of a person with tons of neat tricks. this could be Kishis plan though, to get people to forget about the Sage of Six Paths/Rin'negan and have them focus more on these neat tricks and then hit the reader with one of those wtf?! moments later on...

[Atemu]

I think people would be stupid to deny that Pain is Nagato, I mean Nagato was the one to awaken the Rinnegain not Konan, and she has been seen taking orders from Pain, so why the hell would she be in control of the bodies?

Nagato is the "real one that isn't there" as it was decoded in the message.

everything we now about pain is pointed to Nagato. people can't just deny that. since we know that the bodies are receiving chakra and they have all have the rinnegan and some pretty special techniques.

[segua]

If they bodies are human puppets or puppets constructed into human likeness than they were never alive to begin with.

If a doujutsu user could defeat Pain than it would've been Madara or Itachi at the top. But in this organization, it seems like Madara, Konan and Pain are board members with Pain as the CEO.

Ya know, if Pain I mean Nagato was such a great ninja, he could learn any jutsu that came his way. Ya know what, he might have even learned Sasori's puppetry and combined it with Kakuzu's heart techniques with Orochimaru's transferring jutsu with Pain's own personal twist. So maybe the bodies does seem alive when they really aren't.

[Alex_1]

I think most people think it is Nagato at this point and Konan is a close second. There are other opinions, but I'm going all in on Nagato.

Pein being Nagato seems completely logical and a sure bet. But it also seem's horribly anti-climatic. :D If he really is Nagato, I'm hoping the story leading up to him being Pein is damn interesting.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

People already came up with the theory long time ago that the black rods were a means of controlling and to do with chakra and that damaging/breaking them was the key to destroying a body completely.

I got a feeling Yahiko's ability is simplier than people suggest. Yahiko can't have such a powerful ability because it will be too hard to defeat him in the end, and he isn't even the final obstacle.

[Shurou]

It must also be significant that all of the Pain bodies belonged to shinobi's that Jiraiya met in the past and not just some random powerful (and seemingly dead-then-reanimated) shinobis... Although I can't really guess what the connection could be -_-

[Strider's♥Death]

If they bodies are human puppets or puppets constructed into human likeness than they were never alive to begin with.

If a doujutsu user could defeat Pain than it would've been Madara or Itachi at the top. But in this organization, it seems like Madara, Konan and Pain are board members with Pain as the CEO.

Ya know, if Pain I mean Nagato was such a great ninja, he could learn any jutsu that came his way. Ya know what, he might have even learned Sasori's puppetry and combined it with Kakuzu's heart techniques with Orochimaru's transferring jutsu with Pain's own personal twist. So maybe the bodies does seem alive when they really aren't.

U gotta keep in mind that jiraiya had seen these people before in his life. That will play a big part in solving on who pain is or once pains identity is discovered it will put the whole picture together on how jiraiya had seen these people. But the whole pain creating his own jutsu based off of sasori kaku and oro it just doesnt feel right. This whole body crap has to do with the rinengan. Especially because they all share the same vision and have those eyes.

People already came up with the theory long time ago that the black rods were a means of controlling and to do with chakra and that damaging/breaking them was the key to destroying a body completely.

I got a feeling Yahiko's ability is simplier than people suggest. Yahiko can't have such a powerful ability because it will be too hard to defeat him in the end, and he isn't even the final obstacle.

Of course it probably is , sum people try to come up with theories that related to stuff in the real world. And of course kishi gets shit from the real world as well but when people start getting to technical and shit. Sum people just over think this whole chakara transmitter thing

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Pein being Nagato seems completely logical and a sure bet. But it also seem's horribly anti-climatic. :D If he really is Nagato, I'm hoping the story leading up to him being Pein is damn interesting.

It's hard to say, because knowing Kishi, he may be using devices to make readers think its Nagato, but then it really isn't. Pain called Jiraiya sensei, so surely it has to be one of Jiraiya students we know of, but then again, Jiraiya may not be out of the story plot yet, he may have taught another student, we have no idea of, I believe his past is still very important in the things to come.

[Shurou]

As they very well damn should - we've already seen her make her paper into a sharp spear ready to skewer the poor guy taken over by Jiraiya way back when J-man first infiltrated the Hidden... was it the Hidden Rain? Whatever, Pain's town :P

[Atemu]

If they bodies are human puppets or puppets constructed into human likeness than they were never alive to begin with.

If a doujutsu user could defeat Pain than it would've been Madara or Itachi at the top. But in this organization, it seems like Madara, Konan and Pain are board members with Pain as the CEO.

Ya know, if Pain I mean Nagato was such a great ninja, he could learn any jutsu that came his way. Ya know what, he might have even learned Sasori's puppetry and combined it with Kakuzu's heart techniques with Orochimaru's transferring jutsu with Pain's own personal twist. So maybe the bodies does seem alive when they really aren't.

Kakuza and the others are pretty pore compared to what pain has accomplished don't you think. nah i think pain/nagato has his original stuff going on here

[uchiha-Kakashi]

Madara is on the top of AKaTSUKi

[segua]

U gotta keep in mind that jiraiya had seen these people before in his life. That will play a big part in solving on who pain is or once pains identity is discovered it will put the whole picture together on how jiraiya had seen these people. But the whole pain creating his own jutsu based off of sasori kaku and oro it just doesnt feel right. This whole body crap has to do with the rinengan. Especially because they all share the same vision and have those eyes.

I don't know how creative say Nagato was but he doesn't seem to be similar to say Yondaime or Naruto. He doesn't have that whole "hey I'm going to created another jutsu today!" What Nagato seems like is learning and learning really quickly with the utilization of the rinnegan. If sharingan allows a ninja insight to where an Uchiha could mimic a jutsu, why can't the Rinnegan learn the ninjutsu he saw right off the bat?

Of course I have exposed myself to being severely beaten down because the Rokudo-Sennin was able to found the entire shinobi world with the use of the rinnegan. Then again, it is plausible that Pain created his own ninjutsu for those bodies. And I wouldn't surprised if I was wrong. Though I don't doubt the possibility of Pain being able to learn techniques in a quick succession.

[Alex_1]

It's hard to say, because knowing Kishi, he may be using devices to make readers think its Nagato, but then it really isn't. Pain called Jiraiya sensei, so surely it has to be one of Jiraiya students we know of, but then again, Jiraiya may not be out of the story plot yet, he may have taught another student, we have no idea of, I believe his past is still very important in the things to come.

I hope that's the case - that it's just someone we haven't seen yet, if the storyline with Nagato/Yahiko/Konan is a let-down. Another thing that sort of got me was from that same chapter ( I think it was like 380), when Pein referred t oYahiko as if he was someone completely different than even Nagato, even though that could have just been the translation. When he said: "I suppose only his teacher would be able to recognize what's left of him". Kind of came off to me as a comment of disdain and indifference.

[Strider's♥Death]

I don't know how creative say Nagato was but he doesn't seem to be similar to say Yondaime or Naruto. He doesn't have that whole "hey I'm going to created another jutsu today!" What Nagato seems like is learning and learning really quickly with the utilization of the rinnegan. If sharingan allows a ninja insight to where an Uchiha could mimic a jutsu, why can't the Rinnegan learn the ninjutsu he saw right off the bat?

Of course I have exposed myself to being severely beaten down because the Rokudo-Sennin was able to found the entire shinobi world with the use of the rinnegan. Then again, it is plausible that Pain created his own ninjutsu for those bodies. And I wouldn't surprised if I was wrong. Though I don't doubt the possibility of Pain being able to learn techniques in a quick succession.

Maybe ur just over thinking this. Maybe thats just what nagato can do, take bodies, reanimate them by putting those rods in them and booom just control from a distance.

[tre319]

one thing to look at is how pain has fought so far. When he found out about an intruder in his village. He went and got the animal pain to fight. Yahiko pain has never started a fight. He was try to find information in Konoha and Kakashi found him. I think that Yakihiko Pain is more important than the other five. He only fights when he has no other choice.

[venom1280]

Has anybody though about why the Hyuugas haven't appeared in the story for a while? Now that they know that the black things are chakra receivers, who better than a hyuuga to detect the origin/source or even find a way of disableing the flow of chakra? Neji or Hinata could see right through them and determine exactly how they work and actually see the chakra flowing to them. I hope this doesn't escape Kishi's mind because IMO it would be really messed up as this is the hyuuga's unique ability and could make fighting Pain so much easier.

[Huey Freeman]

I think people would be stupid to deny that Pain is Nagato, I mean Nagato was the one to awaken the Rinnegain not Konan, and she has been seen taking orders from Pain, so why the hell would she be in control of the bodies?

Nagato is the "real one that isn't there" as it was decoded in the message.

Seems obvious, but you never know.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I hope that's the case - that it's just someone we haven't seen yet, if the storyline with Nagato/Yahiko/Konan is a let-down. Another thing that sort of got me was from that same chapter ( I think it was like 380), when Pein referred t oYahiko as if he was someone completely different than even Nagato, even though that could have just been the translation. When he said: "I suppose only his teacher would be able to recognize what's left of him". Kind of came off to me as a comment of disdain and indifference.

Yeah Kishi has been very smart with the whole story of Pain. I would rule out it being of one Minato's team mates especially the boy but I wouldn't rule out it being the girl either. There's definitely some hidden message in that Team pic of Minato's team. It would make things interesting since there would be a Minato link, which links to Naruto/the Prophecy.

[gold349]

If they bodies are human puppets or puppets constructed into human likeness than they were never alive to begin with.

If a doujutsu user could defeat Pain than it would've been Madara or Itachi at the top. But in this organization, it seems like Madara, Konan and Pain are board members with Pain as the CEO.

Ya know, if Pain I mean Nagato was such a great ninja, he could learn any jutsu that came his way. Ya know what, he might have even learned Sasori's puppetry and combined it with Kakuzu's heart techniques with Orochimaru's transferring jutsu with Pain's own personal twist. So maybe the bodies does seem alive when they really aren't.


agreed, Pain Nagato is making human puppets...Demon realm looks like one, he has shown he could open his skull shoot laser, has 6 arms 3 faces that isn't human or an ordinary human any more. Why I buy that idea is, we are being told that he Nagato Pain is creating/altering these bodies inserting piercings and weapons, they stop being human/live/normal at that point. A little while back Sasori was to meet up with Kabuto to ask about Oro soul transfer ritual he wanted some samples from the corpse...we know Sasori used puppet maybe he wanted his to be more human like too...did he see/know of Pains ability?.

Madara is at the top...its him who put akatsuki together and recruited Pain to run it, of late he has shown he doesn't need Pain for sealing he could do that himself, Zetsu said he waited a long time for this when he got Sasuke on board, it's all Madara plan. Madara threatened him...no one can say he didn't...that was a threat no other proof is needed, when he arrived he talked like the boss he walked like the boss Tobi=Madara was revealed as the boss should. He left his underlings (pain and konan) with directions orders to carry out.

[Huey Freeman]

Exactly. And it falls in line with what Yahiko Pein said when he faced Jiraiya - "Make no mistake, Yahiko is dead. The man standing here now is Pein. No-one else.". So, it may be that Jiraiya never killed them because they were never alive to begin with. They were receiving chakra from the black receivers. So, there may be one or two ways to destroy Pein.

1: Immobilize him. That is, when in contact with the bodies, destroy the chakra receivers.
2: Destroy it's source. That is, find out where/how the transmission was being sent, and *deactivate* it.

#2 goes along with Jiraiya's information as well, with "The real one's not there".

Because of that, IMO it again begs the question of what happened to Nagato and Konan. Because we don't know what is the biggest mystery of all with Pein = Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan/and the battle they must have lost, and what made "Pein" the being he/it is. I think we still have plenty of room for an encounter between Pein and Naruto even with this invasion arc. It just thickens the plot, even if Pein is somewhat running out of time.

I'm guessing the only way to stop a body is to disturb the signal. I'm guessing whateve barrier Jiraiya used did just that. it's attack was more than physical.

[Raizen]

I want to see the nara and hyuga clan. See some kick ass action. Hopefully they will get new enemies to fight, but really I would like to see a brawl w/ sharingan and byakugan vs rinnegan. how sick is that.

As for the power itachi gave naruto, I think it is to steal sasuke's light or seal his eyes.

ps. Question, considering naruto's training and his unkown attack, we know that he has wind element right? What if he can use the element as a blade blast like a wind discus. COuldn't he use that attack and hit amaretsu and while doing that catch his discus on fire and send it back at the caster??

[THM Nindo]

It must also be significant that all of the Pain bodies belonged to shinobi's that Jiraiya met in the past and not just some random powerful (and seemingly dead-then-reanimated) shinobis... Although I can't really guess what the connection could be -_-

Maybe it does have something to do with the fact that Jiraiya didn't kill them.
During his travel, he might have fight all those Shinobis but yet, let them alive after the fight.

Nagato could have follow him (or read his book?) and have traced them back to finish them off, either :

1- Because he wanted to do like Jiraiya and the Shinobi in the book

Remember that for Nagato, the Peace will come when all will know what it is to be hurt (or be in pain), because it is when people know what it is to be hurt that they try to be kind to the otheres)
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/09/

2- Just to prove himself more powerful than his teacher.

IMHO, I'd go for the first. It would make perfect sense with all his big speeches about the pain and how him, a God, can change the world.

[segua]

Maybe ur just over thinking this. Maybe thats just what nagato can do, take bodies, reanimate them by putting those rods in them and booom just control from a distance.

LOL. I am aren't I? Call it a spur of imagination.

Who really knows but I agree with Jiraiya's sentiment that why is Nagato, the only one we all know to have the rinnegan, just using one techinque? There's more to him. The front Pain is putting is just shallow of what the real Nagato could do. That's just it though. You have multiple bodies that have one really strong ability and one special taijutsu attack (piercing black rod of chakra disturbance).

It's too simiplistic for Nagato to just take bodies, reanimate them with black rods and give them some abilities. For a person of Nagato's caliber, it's a just absurd just like how Jiraiya expressed it.

Anyway, well find out what this skirmish in Konoha will bring about. We're going to definitely see a new side of Pain which we might have thought impossible.

Other thing though, why is Yahiko-Pain just restricted to using chakra force shield and pull/push now? Could it be that when mulitple bodies are active, they are allowed to only use their specialized abilities for restricted purposes?

[Shurou]

... (piercing black rod of chakra disturbance)...

I imagined a Pain shouting that as he pulls it out and stabs his enemy... and had to stifle a laugh :darn

[Huey Freeman]

Maybe ur just over thinking this. Maybe thats just what nagato can do, take bodies, reanimate them by putting those rods in them and booom just control from a distance.

It goes a lot farther than just reanimating them. Look at the abilities he's bestowed upon each body. Extracting souls used to cost a person their life . . . not with Pain. Unlimited summons, absorbing chakra based attacks, pushing back or drawing in object. It goes beyond just control.

Edit: seriously, these abilities are nothing to take lightly. Even if that's "all" Nagato (or the real Pain) can do, that's a lot!

[Strider's♥Death]

LOL. I am aren't I? Call it a spur of imagination.

Who really knows but I agree with Jiraiya's sentiment that why is Nagato, the only one we all know to have the rinnegan, just using one techinque? There's more to him. The front Pain is putting is just shallow of what the real Nagato could do. That's just it though. You have multiple bodies that have one really strong ability and one special taijutsu attack (piercing black rod of chakra disturbance).

It's too simiplistic for Nagato to just take bodies, reanimate them with black rods and give them some abilities. For a person of Nagato's caliber, it's a just absurd just like how Jiraiya expressed it.

Anyway, well find out what this skirmish in Konoha will bring about. We're going to definitely see a new side of Pain which we might have thought impossible.

Other thing though, why is Yahiko-Pain just restricted to using chakra force shield and pull/push now? Could it be that when mulitple bodies are active, they are allowed to only use their specialized abilities for restricted purposes?
But if Nagato was making bodies like u said, why when the summoner got defeated and taken back to konoha, why didnt he just make another one like that? Why would he bother making a summoner but this time looking like a girl?

Either the bodies that Pain uses come with those abilities we have seen or maybe thats another power of rinnengan to give each body a specific power. Each body has its own unique technique and if Pain were making the bodies why not give them all the same techs? Pain making the bodies just doesnt sound that right. But we will see how pain is doing this eventually and I cant wait for that day.

It goes a lot farther than just reanimating them. Look at the abilities he's bestowed upon each body. Extracting souls used to cost a person their life . . . not with Pain. Unlimited summons, absorbing chakra based attacks, pushing back or drawing in object. It goes beyond just control.

Edit: seriously, these abilities are nothing to take lightly. Even if that's "all" Nagato (or the real Pain) can do, that's a lot!
Look at above post, I was arguing on the fact on how it just doesnt sound right that Pain is making these bodies.

[segua]

Amegakure? Yes, it was Rain's Pain's town. WESTSIDE! (or was it eastside for Pain?)

[laughing@you]

To me those bodies are alive.

The strange piercing just allows pein to take over them. I'm thinking if any shinobi get pierced with a couple of those rods, pein might control them too.

It explains why pein couldn't retrieve or animate the body jiraiya cought. I don't believe the barrier jiraiya used had any effect on the signal except for killing the body. Thus, severing the connection. Cuz the rods where still receiving signal but if the body is not alive he can't control it.

By pein saying yahiko was dead, to me is just he will no longer be able to be withouth nagato's presence. Sorry to bring this comparison but in starwars obiwan said darthvader killed anakin. In the same sense nagato took over and yahiko is no more. Unless konoha manages to remove the piercings on one of the peins without actually killing him.....we might get to see what happens....if they recover their personality or not.

I'm guessing pein has a serious regeneration jutsu that allows him to heal the bodies wounds. And thats not to farfetch, cuz tsunade proved it can be done.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

It goes a lot farther than just reanimating them. Look at the abilities he's bestowed upon each body. Extracting souls used to cost a person there life . . . not with Pain. Unlimited summons, absorbing chakra based attacks, pushing back or drawing in object. It goes beyond just control.

Yeah it's using the Rinnegan power. People thought it was a myth rather than real, because Rinnegan seems to allow you so much power. And no down-sides have been revealed yet.

[Huey Freeman]

But Nagato was making bodies like u said, why when the summoner got defeated and taken back to konoha, why didnt he just make another one like that? Why would he bother making a summoner but this time looking like a girl?

Either the bodies that Pain uses come with those abilities we have seen or maybe thats another power of rinnengan to give each body a specific power. Each body has its own unique technique and if Pain were making the bodies why not give them all the same techs? Pain making the bodies just sound that right. But we will see how pain is doing this eventually and I cant wait for that day.

Why would he need to make a body? I'm sure you could find a ninja that would be willing to sacrifice them self in order to become part of a god. For all we know he has a stash of ninja like Orochimaru used to in the hidden rain village.

Edit: I'm not disagreeing by any means, just trying to add to the conversation! :jir_thumb

[THM Nindo]

I think most people think it is Nagato at this point and Konan is a close second. There are other opinions, but I'm going all in on Nagato.

Here's what I think:

1) Not a big chance that it is Konan since she's been taking order since the beginning from one of Pain's bodies (not even the real Pain)

2) Nagato... it would make sense, for sure. Everything points toward that, but when Jiraiya has his revelation, he yell "Now I know your true identity, Pain!"...

Since the beginning he's thinking that Pain is Nagato... If he would have concluded that it was Nagato, he would have yelled something like : "I knew it, I knew it was you Nagato!"...

By saying "NOW, I know..." means that he was wrong before, don't you think?

Anyway that's just a feeling I have.

3) Don't forget the Rikudou theory. Could it still be him? Or could it be a reincarnation of him? Don't know... But I doubt that Kishi introduced him for no reason. He's not the kind of person to put a hint or create a character for no reason.

4) In any case, Jiraiya knew and the only useful think he left behind was that "the real one isn't with them"... Or was it really his code...

I still think that the six numbers are reference to the six bodies and that the code is related to his first book "The Legend of the Gutsy Ninja".

[Huey Freeman]

Yeah it's using the Rinnegan power. People thought it was a myth rather than real, because Rinnegan seems to allow you so much power. And no down-sides have been revealed yet.

That's the real issue here to me. As soon as I really thought about the human realm pulling out some ninja's soul, I realized it's essentially the same as the death god technique, with no draw back. How's that even fair? Good thing Ero Sennin attacked that one first.

[Strider's♥Death]

Why would he need to make a body? I'm sure you could find a ninja that would be willing to sacrifice them self in order to become part of a god. For all we know he has a stash of ninja like Orochimaru used to in the hidden rain village.

Edit: I'm not disagreeing by any means, just trying to add to the conversation! :jir_thumb

Thats the whole point of my post lol(I edited sum spelling too and sum missing words). Why would he be making them? I dont think pain is making bodies, if he was why just give certain techs to each? WHy not hook up everyone with all techs? I think pain is getting these bodies.I think that Pain is just reanimating bodies but then theres more to it because jiraiya recognized the original six. So his reanimating bodies but why did he pick those? How did he pick those because pain picking those bodies and jiraiya knowing them is just to much of a coincendence.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Here's what I think:

1) Not a big chance that it is Konan since she's been taking order since the beginning from one of Pain's bodies (not even the real Pain)

2) Nagato... it would make sense, for sure. Everything points toward that, but when Jiraiya has his revelation, he yell "Now I know your true identity, Pain!"...

Since the beginning he's thinking that Pain is Nagato... If he would have concluded that it was Nagato, he would have yelled something like : "I knew it, I knew it was you Nagato!"...

By saying "NOW, I know..." means that he was wrong before, don't you think?

Anyway that's just a feeling I have.

3) Don't forget the Rikudou theory. Could it still be him? Or could it be a reincarnation of him? Don't know... But I doubt that Kishi introduced him for no reason. He's not the kind of person to put a hint or create a character for no reason.

4) In any case, Jiraiya knew and the only useful think he left behind was that "the real one isn't with them"... Or was it really his code...

I still think that the six numbers are reference to the six bodies and that the code is related to his first book "The Legend of the Gutsy Ninja".

Yeah people commented on that long ago. Nothing is definite, evidence suggests is likely to be Nagato, but don't be suprised if it ends up being something we haven't thought of yet, because Kishi is a smart guy, he obviously wants us to be in confusion over Pain.

[segua]

It's not possible for Pain to have so much chakra to be able to pull off such high level ninjutsu. I can't even imagine the mental stress that are involved in controlling and coordinating mulitple Pain's at once. Each and everyone person has a set chakra pool. (I suppose that's where the rods come into play). Not to mention restricted use of abilities which Jiraiya found absurd.

Also, Pain's ideology seems to be a very distorted version of Nagato's ideology. Let me rephrase that. Pain's ideology seems to be a very distorted amalgamation of Nagato's and Yahiko's ideologies. A perversion is what you call it. (And why is it that when it comes to this ideology, the only person I could think of to hold such a view is Konan?)

And yes, even if one of those bodies have one technique, they should be taken seriously because they are at such an insane level. Don't forget that when all Pain's bodies form a team, they should practically be unstoppable due to each body complimenting each other. Team Pain is truly a force to be reckon with.

[Huey Freeman]

The only reason I suggest Konan as the second option is because Pain referred to Jiraiya as sensei. Now there's to possibility it's Minato's team members or Minato, but they we're in the flashback or anywhere in the manga (anime only I think) and Minato is dead and not likely to come back (sorry fan boys and girls). That leaves a seemingly dead Yahiko, Nagato who we have yet to see as an adult, and Konan who's done or said very little to date except "Pain is undefeatable."

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

That's the real issue here to me. As soon as I really thought about the human realm pulling out some ninja's soul, I realized it's essentially the same as the death god technique, with no draw back. How's that even fair? Good thing Ero Sennin attacked that one first.

Yeah that was really a WTF moment, but a skilled ninja like Jiraiya wouldn't let someone get close to him, I guess that's why Jiraiya kicked the shit out of the body. That's how he got blind didn't he? Can't remember...

[gold349]

But if Nagato was making bodies like u said, why when the summoner got defeated and taken back to konoha, why didnt he just make another one like that? Why would he bother making a summoner but this time looking like a girl?

Either the bodies that Pain uses come with those abilities we have seen or maybe thats another power of rinnengan to give each body a specific power. Each body has its own unique technique and if Pain were making the bodies why not give them all the same techs? Pain making the bodies just doesnt sound that right. But we will see how pain is doing this eventually and I cant wait for that day.

Look at above post, I was arguing on the fact on how it just doesnt sound right that Pain is making these bodies.


I don't think he is making the bodies but rather working on them like Sasori did with his puppets...adding piercings adding weopons/tools. The bodies he has, he had to get hold off somehow, we know that the bodies he uses Jiraiya met on his journey not all were from the same village, so some time had been taken to get his hands on them...willingly or unwillingly they are not normal anymore. Demon realm shows how extensive the work he does, he has 3 faces the same, he must need something for base...like that actual body. He couldn't just create another animal realm like the one he lost...he has a girl wich he has given animal realm powers that is through his own rinnagan power IMO..realms is his power.

[Huey Freeman]

Thats the whole point of my post lol(I edited sum spelling too and sum missing words). Why would he be making them? I dont think pain is making bodies, if he was why just give certain techs to each? WHy not hook up everyone with all techs? I think pain is getting these bodies.I think that Pain is just reanimating bodies but then theres more to it because jiraiya recognized the original six. So his reanimating bodies but why did he pick those? How did he pick those because pain picking those bodies and jiraiya knowing them is just to much of a coincendence.

I don't even want to get into the whole "it can be a coincidence" thing. I'll just say why not? Isn't it a huge coincidence that Ero Sennin just happened to be spying at bath house where Naruto (the chosen one, son of his favorite student, his god child named after the main character in his first book) went with Ebu to learn better chakra control? Come on. Why can't it be just "coincidence" that turned out to be "fate" so Jiraiya could fulfill his part in the prophecy? Why? :wall

[skyline]

jiraiya was fighting all six pains right? and konan WASN'T among the six pains he was fighting right? and jiraiya's message said "the real one isn't there". so konan is the one who is THE REAL ONE. there is a reason why pain made a copy of konan after jiraiya defeated one of the pains.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Since Jiraiya has been mentioned, I hope we get more flashbacks of him. And Naruto really needs to see the Toad Sage, because he'll surely reveal some interesting things about Naruto's future.

[Huey Freeman]

Yeah that was really a WTF moment, but a skilled ninja like Jiraiya wouldn't let someone get close to him, I guess that's why Jiraiya kicked the shit out of the body. That's how he got blind didn't he? Can't remember...

You are right, he kicked the shit out of that body (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/07/). Great moment. Also, another reason that makes me think Demon Pain will get back up. That kicked should have killed him.

[Strider's♥Death]

I don't think he is making the bodies but rather working on them like Sasori did with his puppets...adding piercings adding weopons/tools. The bodies he has, he had to get hold off somehow, we know that the bodies he uses Jiraiya met on his journey not all were from the same village, so some time had been taken to get his hands on them...willingly or unwillingly they are not normal anymore. Demon realm shows how extensive the work he does, he has 3 faces the same, he must need something for base...like that actual body. He couldn't just create another animal realm like the one he lost...he has a girl wich he has given animal realm powers that is through his own rinnagan power IMO..realms is his power.

Yeah exactly he isnt making them. But I doubt that his adding knew shit to them like a sasori puppet. IMO he just gets the bodies and reanimates them with the rods. And u cant use the Demon realm as an example that his adding things to them because that could have easily been how that body was. But I thought of the rinnengan giving the abilities as well and that seems very plausible , actually I think thats what he probably does give each bodies a specific tech.

[segua]

The only reason I suggest Konan as the second option is because Pain referred to Jiraiya as sensei. Now there's to possibility it's Minato's team members or Minato, but they we're in the flashback or anywhere in the manga (anime only I think) and Minato is dead and not likely to come back (sorry fan boys and girls). That leaves a seemingly dead Yahiko, Nagato who we have yet to see as an adult, and Konan who's done or said very little to date except "Pain is undefeatable."

Yea, it seems that all Konan do is disagree with Madara about Pain's abilities. I felt as if she is treating Pain like an object or thing ya know. Why can't Pain tell Madara off for doubting Pain's abilities right? That or Pain is pussy-wooped so bad, Konan is the one wearing the pants.

I strongly thing that Yahiko-Pain is more connected to the protagonist of Jiraiya's novel "Tale of the Gutsy Ninja." I don't know whether or not it was Naruto's imagination when reading the book (which I wouldn't doubt) but man I must say that there is such a resemblence isn't there. Well character-wise anyway. Isn't it intriguing that both Pain and Naruto and even the Gutsy Ninja all want to change the world for the better?

(Also, everytime I go back to read the beginning of Naruto Chapter 416, I can't help it, but the other ninja that the Gutsy Ninja is fighting resembles Ash Ketchum or a pokemon trainer.)

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

You are right, he kicked the shit out of that body (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/07/). Great moment. Also, another reason that makes me think Demon Pain will get back up. That kicked should have killed him.

Yeah...http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/07.jpg

Just a reminder of Jiraiya's greatness. The funny thing was, Pain said "Very Nice" after that.
Though that body has a super power of ripping souls, his weakness is obviously Taijutsu.

[Strider's♥Death]

I don't even want to get into the whole "it can be a coincidence" thing. I'll just say why not? Isn't it a huge coincidence that Ero Sennin just happened to be spying at bath house where Naruto (the chosen one, son of his favorite student, his god child named after the main character in his first book) went with Ebu to learn better chakra control? Come on. Why can't it be just "coincidence" that turned out to be "fate" so Jiraiya could fulfill his part in the prophecy? Why? :wall

One pain body that he knows who it is , why not? 2 pain bodies....hmmm welll okay, 3 pain bodies ehhhhhh fate......, 4 pain bodies ahrhafhllfhalh still faaaate???, 5 pain bodies ehhguhhhhh , 6 pain bodies ?? T_T . I think the prophecy fate thing is like a good point. cant it just be about jiraiya fighting pain? Jiraiya recognizing these bodies will play a bigger part later on and we will find out why these bodies were chosen.

[segua]

When you really think about it, that should've been one helluva kick! For any other person, the head would've exploded but for Fuuma-Pain's eyes to pop, that is sure some bodies that Pain has.

[Alex_1]

To me those bodies are alive.

The strange piercing just allows pein to take over them. I'm thinking if any shinobi get pierced with a couple of those rods, pein might control them too.

It explains why pein couldn't retrieve or animate the body jiraiya cought. I don't believe the barrier jiraiya used had any effect on the signal except for killing the body. Thus, severing the connection. Cuz the rods where still receiving signal but if the body is not alive he can't control it.

By pein saying yahiko was dead, to me is just he will no longer be able to be withouth nagato's presence. Sorry to bring this comparison but in starwars obiwan said darthvader killed anakin. In the same sense nagato took over and yahiko is no more. Unless konoha manages to remove the piercings on one of the peins without actually killing him.....we might get to see what happens....if they recover their personality or not.

I'm guessing pein has a serious regeneration jutsu that allows him to heal the bodies wounds. And thats not to farfetch, cuz tsunade proved it can be done.

Could be. I sit on the other side of the fence of that argument but realistically, who knows? In the barrier, the Pein body's piercing also seems to have been broken. It also seems like that body was 'deactivated' by it, or the piercing's were.


But another thing that's kind of gotten to me too.... and this may seem very trivial, but... what do any of you think about Pein's hair? No... I'm not asking if you think he uses Pert + or Pantene. I'm wondering if there's more to them all being red-headed. I don't think Nagato Nor Yahiko were red-headed at the time either. Could that be indicative of something more than just their connection to being "Pein"?

[Bones]

Asura realm took off his cloak or coat, so you know that mean Team Pain will die in the near future.

Don't they know once any akstsuki member take their coat or cloak off they are doom.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Asura realm took off his cloak or coat, so you know that mean Team Pain will die in the near future.

Don't they know once any akstsuki member take their coat or cloak off they are doom.

He still had the cloak attached to him, so not completely off.

[GreeN Beast]

He still had the cloak attached to him, so not completely off.

no he throwed it away i think!??

[segua]

But another thing that's kind of gotten to me too.... and this may seem very trivial, but... what do any of you think about Pein's hair? No... I'm not asking if you think he uses Pert + or Pantene. I'm wondering if there's more to them all being red-headed. I don't think Nagato Nor Yahiko were red-headed at the time either. Could that be indicative of something more than just their connection to being "Pein"?

Pain's bodies have to have some sort of substance right. I think the jutsu to create those bodies is a forbidden jutsu because it requires say a human sacrifice or to be more exact, a human body as the base. Since Yahiko is dead, what if Pain is using cells from Yahiko's dead body to create these bodies? And because of that, you get bodies with red hair?

I swear that Pain must be some kind of scientist or something. It's like science-fiction but ninja style.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

no he throwed it away i think!??

Nah if you look at the pics, he still has the cloak attached to him.

[Strider's♥Death]

Nah if you look at the pics, he still has the cloak attached to him.

Nope its off. If u look at the pics.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/15/

[Bones]

He still had the cloak attached to him, so not completely off.

I should have said once any part of cloak is off somehow you are doom.

Hidan- was ripped part way
Kakzu- had to take it off since Kakashi put a hole into it
Diehara - I forgot why, but I think it was to do a move not so sure
orochimaru- he left the group
Sasori - to show off is strongest form
Itachi - because of Sasuke's kirin
Madara - took it off when he was talking to Sasuke

Kisname was smart not to take if off during is battle with Gai after timeskip.
[hr]

Nope its off. If u look at the pics.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/15/

thanks

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Nope its off. If u look at the pics.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/15/

Yeah you're right. My eyes went fucked.

[laughing@you]

Could be. I sit on the other side of the fence of that argument but realistically, who knows? In the barrier, the Pein body's piercing also seems to have been broken. It also seems like that body was 'deactivated' by it, or the piercing's were.


But another thing that's kind of gotten to me too.... and this may seem very trivial, but... what do any of you think about Pein's hair? No... I'm not asking if you think he uses Pert + or Pantene. I'm wondering if there's more to them all being red-headed. I don't think Nagato Nor Yahiko were red-headed at the time either. Could that be indicative of something more than just their connection to being "Pein"?

Its all good man......i don't think they were broken cuz after they were pulled out shizune could tell it was still receiving. The antennas work all the time but of if the radio is off it really doesn't matter. It might be true about jiraiya's barrier if by any chance newly road-kill pein gets up like nothing happened. But if the other pein has to revive him or do something to reanimate him, then the bodies must be alive for controls.

Well on the hair issue.....don't know. But after so long of recieving chakra from nagato, their bodies might change some attributes. The eyes do, the hair could too.

P.S. Konan might have a say on how they look too. You never know. i mean she's forced to be with him all the time she could like hell no!!! i'm not hanging out with a guy looking like that!!!! lol

[God]

Asura realm took off his cloak or coat, so you know that mean Team Pain will die in the near future.

Don't they know once any akstsuki member take their coat or cloak off they are doom.

Yeah the cloak will definitly be the death of Team Pain....or will we just get many more chapters with Pain's rinnegan revealing its true power....and I wonder what Kakashi found out?!;)

[Zibi234]

I will still stick to my version ^^ that God-pein body has the abbility to inject his own chakra into the target with that long pircing (coming from arms) and then by pointing at his target he can push him or pull him like a pupet ^^

Pein did nothing before he stabbed Kakashi.... yet after he pirced his left shoulder with that black pircing-blade he pushed Kakashi away along with that wall... later he pointed at Kakashi his hand and pulled him in his direction (but it turned out that it was a clone....).... Well there is the question why Kakashis real body was not pulled out from hiding... well it was a clone (and not an ilusion) and in each clone there is chakra flowing (like neji told after seeing narutos shadow clones and couldnt tell which was the real one) so in that Raikiri-clone could be peins chakra flowing too ^^ (if he didnt injected his chakra then he could leave a small pice of that black pircing deep inside that wound [while he stabbed Kakashi] so he can control his movements like Pain does to the rest of bodies thx to that black chakra reciver pircings

[ReleasedPotential-]

jiraiya was fighting all six pains right? and konan WASN'T among the six pains he was fighting right? and jiraiya's message said "the real one isn't there". so konan is the one who is THE REAL ONE. there is a reason why pain made a copy of konan after jiraiya defeated one of the pains.

whyyyyyyyyy does EVERYBODY think that everyone EXCEPT for Yahiko and Nagato are Pein ??? .....

It is clearly drawn in this page here as well as the pages after it.. the rinnegan either belongs to nagato or yahiko ... i don't understand how it can be any other way ...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/02/


Now of course if chapters are released in the future proving "Konan" (somehow) to be Pein .... .. i will proceed to scar myself with hot coals and then quickly jump into freezing water as torture .....

However ... That is unlikely ....

I also understand that jiraiya DID say the real one wasn't there ... but i still can't see how it can be Konan

[bean]

I doubt it belongs to yahiko, so that just leaves nagato...people don't want to believe because it's the most obvious choice. Pein is nagato...all we need is a solid confirmation. The real one is not with them, right? so to me, that's saying yahiko isn't the real pein, and since pein referred to jiraiya as sensei, it's gotta be nagato.

[Sunburn74]

hey um... i don't know if you guys watch naruto anime but you might want to check out episode 81. there's a bit where pain reveals the motives of the individual akatsuki members.

guess what?! Konan is love, zetsu is for land, and kisame is a grudge!!! plus pain's voice is weird... not as lifeless as I imagine.

[bean]

hey um... i don't know if you guys watch naruto anime but you might want to check out episode 81. there's a bit where pain reveals the motives of the individual akatsuki members.

guess what?! Konan is love!!! plus pain's voice is weird... not as lifeless as I imagine.
anime=crap

ever since the fillers, they've gone way off canon...the quality keeps going down. I can't even watch them anymore.

[shinobi]

I doubt it belongs to yahiko, so that just leaves nagato...people don't want to believe because it's the most obvious choice. Pein is nagato...all we need is a solid confirmation. The real one is not with them, right? so to me, that's saying yahiko isn't the real pein, and since pein referred to jiraiya as sensei, it's gotta be nagato.

It's Nagato, the summoning pein not only called J-man sensei, he also knew about the privet conversation J-man had with Nagato about growing up and knowing people's pain.this is something only Nagato knows.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

hey um... i don't know if you guys watch naruto anime but you might want to check out episode 81. there's a bit where pain reveals the motives of the individual akatsuki members.

guess what?! Konan is love, zetsu is for land, and kisame is a grudge!!! plus pain's voice is weird... not as lifeless as I imagine.

Anime and manga are two different universe. Anime doesn't mean shit as far as the manga is concern.
[hr]

It's Nagato, the summoning pein not only called J-man sensei, he also knew about the privet conversation J-man had with Nagato about growing up and knowing people's pain.this is something only Nagato knows.

I believe that was Jiraiya flashback, not Pein.

[shinobi]

I believe that was Jiraiya flashback, not Pein.

not the flashback, I'm talking about the conversation the summoner had with J-man during their battle.

[NotAJock2Day]

I DON'T TRUST RANDOM ANBU GUY!

I think he might be Kabutochimaru, it's always him. Don't trust Ninjas in masks, they will only betray you.

But seriously, that would be an odd twist to a seemingly well formulated plan to "solve" Pain. He won't interrupt Shizune, it'll be sometime towards the end where Pain and Naruto are fighting. The Anbu jumps in then poof, it's Kabuto. He wants to fight Naruto eventually, after all. Pain can't lose here, it would be an interesting plot device to prolong the struggle if Kabuto saves Naruto.

[Huey Freeman]

whyyyyyyyyy does EVERYBODY think that everyone EXCEPT for Yahiko and Nagato are Pein ??? .....

It is clearly drawn in this page here as well as the pages after it.. the rinnegan either belongs to nagato or yahiko ... i don't understand how it can be any other way ...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/02/


Now of course if chapters are released in the future proving "Konan" (somehow) to be Pein .... .. i will proceed to scar myself with hot coals and then quickly jump into freezing water as torture .....

However ... That is unlikely ....

I also understand that jiraiya DID say the real one wasn't there ... but i still can't see how it can be Konan

Are you kidding? Most people think Nagato. Yahiko is dead. Konan becomes the next most likely by default due to the "sensei" reference in the battle with Jiraiya. Granted Kishi could make it be somebody as random as Salamander Honzou, but evidence point to Nagato (1) and Konan (distant 2)

[Sunburn74]

Anime and manga are two different universe. Anime doesn't mean shit as far as the manga is concern.
<hr noshade size="1">

I believe that was Jiraiya flashback, not Pein.

Oh I know the anime isn't official, but this episode pain clearly demarcates the reasons each individual akatsuki member joined, and whilst its not official canon, it's at worst an interesting preview.

Pain said that kisame joined to settle a grudge, which seems very on key seeing as Kisama seems to be the grudge holding type. He says konan joined for love, possibly explaining her behavior and closeness to him and no one else. And he says Zetsu joined for land.

Of course its not official, but again, an interesting preview imo... Kinda wonder who kisame has a grudge against. Probably his former village.

[Dekker]

not the flashback, I'm talking about the conversation the summoner had with J-man during their battle.

Good point. Other points would be that Yahiko Pain said Yahiko was dead. And he sure is, I doubt Nagato lied... Jirajya found out his secret, even Pain himself knew that once he figured out Pain is controlled frome somewhere else, hes toast. Now with the confirmation about the metal rods, what else do you think?

[Huey Freeman]

hey um... i don't know if you guys watch naruto anime but you might want to check out episode 81. there's a bit where pain reveals the motives of the individual akatsuki members.

guess what?! Konan is love, zetsu is for land, and kisame is a grudge!!! plus pain's voice is weird... not as lifeless as I imagine.

I noticed that, but you can't go by the anime.

Edit: way late on this, but I get where you're coming from. It's possible there may be some side story tie in soon anyway. We've gotten the image of the jinchuuriki, this random suggested motive stuff, and the glaring omission of the capture of the sanbi (three-tails if I'm wrong here) in the anime. Something way off cannon is about to happen in the anime I think.

[Sunburn74]

We also get to finally see pain's eyes true color. Lots of fan pics have it anywhere from orange to purple. It doesn't appear to be either.

[Dekker]

Oh I know the anime isn't official, but this episode pain clearly demarcates the reasons each individual akatsuki member joined, and whilst its not official canon, it's at worst an interesting preview.

No, at worst its incredible bullshit. Nothing more. It might be, that Konan loves Nagato, but we cant know for sure nor was there anything implying it, yet.

Never, realy never, go by an anime when it comes to manga...

[bean]

Oh I know the anime isn't official, but this episode pain clearly demarcates the reasons each individual akatsuki member joined, and whilst its not official canon, it's at worst an interesting preview.

Pain said that kisame joined to settle a grudge, which seems very on key seeing as Kisama seems to be the grudge holding type. He says konan joined for love, possibly explaining her behavior and closeness to him and no one else. And he says Zetsu joined for land.

Of course its not official, but again, an interesting preview imo... Kinda wonder who kisame has a grudge against. Probably his former village.
they take an obvious characteristic from the manga (kisame holding a grudge against gai) and then use it as part of the anime...same applies for konan. The zetsu shit, who knows where they got that from.
[hr]

We also get to finally see pain's eyes true color. Lots of fan pics have it anywhere from orange to purple. It doesn't appear to be either.
we saw it a long time ago in the manga (377)...the anime fucked it up before as well...it used to be pink eye with two grey irises...

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Konan has orange eyes according the the anime btw.

We really need some Naruto next chapter, just to hype him up, and see some new shit he's been learning. But I don't so, most likely an all Konoha chapter. Tsunade will probably get fighting a Pain body, easiest one for her would be the Summoner Pain I guess.

[makko]

anime=crap

ever since the fillers, they've gone way off canon...the quality keeps going down. I can't even watch them anymore.

Ah c'mon thats a lil harsh. The anime isn't bad. I guess i'm bias cause i started with the Anime.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

they take an obvious characteristic from the manga (kisame holding a grudge against gai) and then use it as part of the anime...same applies for konan. The zetsu shit, who knows where they got that from.
<hr noshade size="1">

we saw it a long time ago in the manga (376ish?)...the anime fucked it up before as well...it used to be pink eye with two grey irises...

Kishi probably didn't give them a definite answer to how the eyes looked like.
[hr]

Ah c'mon thats a lil harsh. The anime isn't bad. I guess i'm bias cause i started with the Anime.

Well I'm waiting for the Jiraiya vs Pain and Itachi vs Sasuke fight to be animated. I don't think they'll fuck it up, since their big fights.

[bean]

Ah c'mon thats a lil harsh. The anime isn't bad. I guess i'm bias cause i started with the Anime.
I started with the anime as well...I didn't start reading hte manga until the time skip, when the fillers started. That's what makes it even worse. I used to not read the manga on purpose because I didn't want to know what happened...fuck that, the anime turned to shit. I miss the old anime...I said somewhere else, I watch an old episode and it makes me nostalgic and brings tears to my eyes...everything was awesome pretimeskip.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Ah c'mon thats a lil harsh. The anime isn't bad. I guess i'm bias cause i started with the Anime.

I start with the anime too, i didn't start reading the manga until somewhere around where Jiraiya and Pein were about to fight, andi still think the anime is crap. It use to be good in Part 1 but now i can't even being myself to watch one episode.

But as for this chapter: i'm expecting to see some Konoha Ninja in action since the counterattack signal just went up.

[TheChosenOne]

I said somewhere else, I watch an old episode and it makes me nostalgic and brings tears to my eyes...everything was awesome pretimeskip.

Gotta agree, Part 1 anime was great, it actually carried a lot of quality. Part 2 so far has been a waste (IMHO), the only part that I liked what Chiyo vs Sasori, the rest has been dissapointing. Hopefully the better plot like Sasuke's return, Jiraiya's fight and Itachi will make it better and reclaime it greatness. :)

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

As fun as discussing Naruto anime is, we're gonna get our butts kicked by the mods. :(

I predict we're gonna see Yahiko Pain get serious and kick ass.

[makko]

I'm curious to know if Kakashi let go of the chain cause the force was so strong of if Pain controlled his clone into doing it.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I'm curious to know if Kakashi let go of the chain cause the force was so strong of if Pain controlled his clone into doing it.

Probably the force was strong in Young Yahiko Kenobi.

[Huey Freeman]

I'm curious to know if Kakashi let go of the chain cause the force was so strong of if Pain controlled his clone into doing it.

My guess is Kakashi was at the other end of the chain and he switched in order to stun Pain with the ration bunshin.

[gold349]

Gotta agree, Part 1 anime was great, it actually carried a lot of quality. Part 2 so far has been a waste (IMHO), the only part that I liked what Chiyo vs Sasori, the rest has been dissapointing. Hopefully the better plot like Sasuke's return, Jiraiya's fight and Itachi will make it better and reclaime it greatness. :)


same here Sasori fight was awesome...I was telling people for months who hadn't read manga but watch anime, not to miss that fight...for me it is the only good thing that has happened in part2. There was actual substance behind to it..from the start, when Sasori got to the sand village to his defeat there was major story there..rest has been so so...nothing to get me excited. Though there is a lot of potential for it to be good, the Itachi thing should be good..but knowing the producers they probably will stretch it so much that it will be wrecked like kyubi/4tails and Oro encounter...that could have been done awesome but was waisted with the long staring at each other competitions:amuse...that's the shit I hate like they stare at each other for ages with out any dialogue its so boring makes me mad:mad

[Belisar]

Good point. Other points would be that Yahiko Pain said Yahiko was dead. And he sure is, I doubt Nagato lied... Jirajya found out his secret, even Pain himself knew that once he figured out Pain is controlled frome somewhere else, hes toast. Now with the confirmation about the metal rods, what else do you think?
in which way? would he plucks all the rods out until pain collapse?

even if you know the secret, it's nearly impossible to defeat pain alone. every of his bodies has crazy abilities. you have no chance alone until your name is sarutobi and you are at your peek.
ok, if you go with edo tensei at him and prepare at least 3 bodies of guys as hanzou, minato and jiraya. but you know hungry ghost realm can rip out souls and god pain know how to use seals.

[makko]

I started with the anime as well...I didn't start reading hte manga until the time skip, when the fillers started. That's what makes it even worse. I used to not read the manga on purpose because I didn't want to know what happened...fuck that, the anime turned to shit. I miss the old anime...I said somewhere else, I watch an old episode and it makes me nostalgic and brings tears to my eyes...everything was awesome pretimeskip.

Yea i can co-sign that a lil. I pretty much did exactly the same. Then i just gave up cause i wanted to know what happen lol.

[gold349]

in which way? would he plucks all the rods out until pain collapse?

even if you know the secret, it's nearly impossible to defeat pain alone. every of his bodies has crazy abilities. you have no chance alone until your name is sarutobi and you are at your peek.

I suppose that shizune has something that can read/measure/ the chakra waves...there should be a way of blocking them, no need to try and disable each body and remove the piercings...sealing Chakra barrier could be used, Chio showed against Sasori that one can completely seal ones chakra...who knows...

though I agree that its not going to be easy, I think 2 things will have to be done actually 3. 1) stop the chakra being received by the bodies..the bodies will have to be cut off from its supply of chakra. 2) just because chakra is cut of doesn't automatically mean they will collapse, the piercings receive store chakra and may be able to function on auto pilot?..so the bodies individual will have to be defeated. 3) find 'the real one' and kick his ass so he doesn't produce other bodies..giving them power of realms...as that would bring you back to square 1.

[makko]

My guess is Kakashi was at the other end of the chain and he switched in order to stun Pain with the ration bunshin.

Wasn't the chain wrapped around the pillar. Than the original Kakashi popped out of the wreckage. Could it be that the force was just too strong. Could be Kishi trying to show us how strong that pull really is...

[Taz&Naruto]

I suppose that shizune has something that can read/measure/ the chakra waves...there should be a way of blocking them, no need to try and disable each body and remove the piercings...sealing Chakra barrier could be used, Chio showed against Sasori that one can completely seal ones chakra...who knows...

though I agree that its not going to be easy, I think 2 things will have to be done actually 3. 1) stop the chakra being received by the bodies..the bodies will have to be cut off from its supply of chakra. 2) just because chakra is cut of doesn't automatically mean they will collapse, the piercings receive store chakra and may be able to function on auto pilot?..so the bodies individual will have to be defeated. 3) find 'the real one' and kick his ass so he doesn't produce other bodies..giving them power of realms...as that would bring you back to square 1.
I think that Neji will use his eyes to find the main source of the chakra flow and then destory it. The rest of his clan will do the same. It seems as though they would be best suited since they see chakra. The stupid Uchilas are no more in the konaha so they are the obvious choice. If they don't play a part in this chapter they will in the next 2.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

even if you know the secret, it's nearly impossible to defeat pain alone. every of his bodies has crazy abilities. you have no chance alone until your name is sarutobi and you are at your peek.
ok, if you go with edo tensei at him and prepare at least 3 bodies of guys as hanzou, minato and jiraya. but you know hungry ghost realm can rip out souls and god pain know how to use seals.

You have no chance alone unless you are as strong as Jiraiya(while know is secret, of course). Pein said it himself, that there was no way he could have beat Jiraiya if he had not kept his secret.

[HPTR Fangirl]

:blink Rasengan? :blinki don't follow? pein with the rasengan?:blink

Sharingan can see chakra. But sharingan identifying a kage-bunshin has been a long debate over the years. Cuz nobody not even itachi has been shown identifying a kage-bunshin, except for sasuke of course. But in my honest opinion i think sasuke managed to see thru naruto's KB cuz his been seeing them for so long he found some type of flaw or a something in particular that somebody seeing in it for the first time wouldn't notice. Again sasuke has witnessed naruto using his KB so many times he could have found some irregularities that allows him to seperate KB from the real one.

But if you are implying that knew it wasn't the real hachibi. I think you are overestimating sasuke. He pulled amaterasu at the last moment, cuz he knew he was doomed. He gave up on capturing hachibi thats why he used amaterasu, he discovered at the nick of time how to stop it and luckly was able to save kirin. Nah i don't think he didn't even noticed.

Shouldn't that be Karin. Kirin his is S-level attack.:p

And anyway, I don't see in anyway Pain getting defeated, even if the next chapter is supposed to be Capture Pain.. If he does get captured, there will be no need for Naruto to train so hard. And it would also imply that Rinnegan isn't that strong even though it is the most power ful of the 3 doujutsus in Narutoverse existence. May be we will just see more abilities of the God / Deva Pain. Secondly, I don't yet believe that Pain knows that Naruto is in Konoha, otherwise all pain's wouldn't be asking where Naruto is.

[Dekker]

in which way? would he plucks all the rods out until pain collapse?

even if you know the secret, it's nearly impossible to defeat pain alone. every of his bodies has crazy abilities. you have no chance alone until your name is sarutobi and you are at your peek.
ok, if you go with edo tensei at him and prepare at least 3 bodies of guys as hanzou, minato and jiraya. but you know hungry ghost realm can rip out souls and god pain know how to use seals.

Or retreat for the moment, find out where the real body is and destroy it. Or destroy the connection points. None of Pains enemies has beaten him, since they all did not know what his weak point was. Sasori is pretty much right: Everything is as strong as the weakest link.

[Delbi]

Anyone ever think Kakashi would use his MS, since its a space time jutsu to target the recievers? I know he doesn't know what they do (or maybe he does, he did get stuck with one), but if he does, he could try and rip them out of him with the space time properties of his MS.

[Mythsoul]

I cannot wait for the spoilers....what are kakashis preparations...I dont think the MS....will be the practical attack for this body of Pein....and about Peins secret...I dotn think that will be discovered this chapter.....perhaps hinted a little more....but that will be Tsunade to discover it....and then be passed on to Naruto...

[Belisar]

You have no chance alone unless you are as strong as Jiraiya(while know is secret, of course). Pein said it himself, that there was no way he could have beat Jiraiya if he had not kept his secret.
sarutobi was stronger than jiraya by far. he was 73 or something when he died. orochimaru said if he was 10 years younger (around 60) he would kill him. in aspect of strenght sarutobi was a real monster. the strongest hokage and i belive to remember that in the anime (maybe manga, too) he was stated as the strongest shinobi ever. not sure about this one.

about the secret: even if you knew that the real isn't there and they receive chakra, so what? do you know where the real one is hiding? do you know how to kill them efficiently? if you guys say it, it sound so easy: find the real one, destroy the receiver. maybe a village has the power/technologie to destroy the rods, but not jiraya as unprepared as he was. so what i'm trying to say is, that even without knowing the secret you can defeat tham but with a power level above jiraya's.

jiraya: damn, he is using the black rods as receiver.
fukasaku: call kakashi. *summons the messenger frog*


Or retreat for the moment, find out where the real body is and destroy it. Or destroy the connection points. None of Pains enemies has beaten him, since they all did not know what his weak point was. Sasori is pretty much right: Everything is as strong as the weakest link.
well, it's difficult to retreat when you are already at home. should they leave the citizens for pain's mercy and escape?

citizen: wait! where are you going?
ninja: well.... we don't know how to beat them, so we retreat and wait for the plan. we are working at it.
citizen: !!?? and what about us?
ninja: c'mon. he is searching for naruto. he won't do anything to you. just keep running.

[Askia32]

I started with the anime as well...I didn't start reading hte manga until the time skip, when the fillers started. That's what makes it even worse. I used to not read the manga on purpose because I didn't want to know what happened...fuck that, the anime turned to shit. I miss the old anime...I said somewhere else, I watch an old episode and it makes me nostalgic and brings tears to my eyes...everything was awesome pretimeskip.

I could not have said it better myself.

I'm tempted now to download all of part 1 and re-watch it. It was so good I remember if I watched one episode, I had to watch the next.

Part 2 has some great battles to work with, and they completely jacked it up worse than the Jurassic Park sequels.

[ptolemy]

Shouldn't that be Karin. Kirin his is S-level attack.:p

And anyway, I don't see in anyway Pain getting defeated, even if the next chapter is supposed to be Capture Pain.. If he does get captured, there will be no need for Naruto to train so hard. And it would also imply that Rinnegan isn't that strong even though it is the most power ful of the 3 doujutsus in Narutoverse existence. May be we will just see more abilities of the God / Deva Pain. Secondly, I don't yet believe that Pain knows that Naruto is in Konoha, otherwise all pain's wouldn't be asking where Naruto is.

Well, it could be like The Dark Knight, Pain gets captured as part of the plan to get Naruto

[segua]

Some of the fillers were good man. Others were, well ... we all know what happened. Well they had their moments.

Anyway back to the topic, Pain's pull was extremely strong even for a ninja of Kakashi's caliber. It was good that Kakashi was gauging Pain and using his analytical abilites to try to glean more information that might be useful.

I'm thinking that even if Pain's secret is found out, it will still be hard as hell to defeat him. More so than those blasted bodies and then some.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

sarutobi was stronger than jiraya by far. he was 73 or something when he died. orochimaru said if he was 10 years younger (around 60) he would kill him. in aspect of strenght sarutobi was a real monster. the strongest hokage and i belive to remember that in the anime (maybe manga, too) he was stated as the strongest shinobi ever. not sure about this one.

about the secret: even if you knew that the real isn't there and they receive chakra, so what? do you know where the real one is hiding? do you know how to kill them efficiently? if you guys say it, it sound so easy: find the real one, destroy the receiver. maybe a village has the power/technologie to destroy the rods, but not jiraya as unprepared as he was. so what i'm trying to say is, that even without knowing the secret you can defeat tham but with a power level above jiraya's.

jiraya: damn, he is using the black rods as receiver.
fukasaku: call kakashi. *summons the messenger frog*


well, it's difficult to retreat when you are already at home. should they leave the citizens for pain's mercy and escape?


I think you misunderstand my post or i just didn't make myself clear enough. I believe Sarutobi is strong as hell and i actually think he is stronger than Jiraiya. I'm just saying that you don't have to be as strong as Sarutobi to defeat Pein if you know is secret, base on what Pein said himself. You just have to be as strong as Jiraiya or stronger. I actually agree with you that someone like Sarutobi in his prime or the 1st can defeat Pein without knowing his secret. Most people here don't believe that. Most people think he is invincible as long as he keep his secret. I don't believe that, just because i have a secret that help me in a fight wouldn't stop Jet Li from whopping my ass.

[Belisar]

about the secret: even if you knew that the real isn't there and they receive chakra, so what? do you know where the real one is hiding? do you know how to kill them efficiently? if you guys say it, it sound so easy: find the real one, destroy the receiver. maybe a village has the power/technologie to destroy the rods, but not jiraya as unprepared as he was. so what i'm trying to say is, that even without knowing the secret you can defeat tham but with a power level above jiraya's.

I think you misunderstand my post or i just didn't make myself clear enough. I believe Sarutobi is strong as hell and i actually think he is stronger than Jiraiya. I'm just saying that you don't have to be as strong as Sarutobi to defeat Pein if you know is secret, base on what Pein said himself. You just have to be as strong as Jiraiya or stronger. I actually agree with you that someone like Sarutobi in his prime or the 1st can defeat Pein without knowing his secret. Most people here don't believe that. Most people think he is invincible as long as he keep his secret. I don't believe that, just because i have a secret that help me in a fight wouldn't stop Jet Li from whopping my ass.
well, you have misunderstood me. i know that you know that sarutobi is stronger than jiraya. i just wanted to say, that you can win without to know the secret. lol you said almost the same. :eyeroll

[Baron Hugenstein]

well, you have misunderstood me. i know that you know that sarutobi is stronger than jiraya. i just wanted to say, that you can win without to know the secret. lol you said almost the same. :eyeroll

Something like it is possible, someone stronger than Jiraiya can defeat Pain. But the question is really, does Konoha have such a person that can do such a thing?.

Or should i say, Does someone like that exist within the side of Konoha?

[Delbi]

Could Sarturobi have beat Pain? I think it's highly unlikley, and if he could have he would of had to be Jiriaya's age. Since his trump card against Oro was the Death God, and that would only kill one Pain body, thats no good. Sarturobi was known as the "wizard" because of his massive knowledge of Ninjutsu, and in that reguard he had no equal, but as evident with Jiriaya you need more than good ninjutsu to beat Pain.

The strongest Hokage was the 4th, it's been stated he was the strongest shinobi Kohona ever produced, and he it was argued he was even the strongest in the world.
[hr]
Another thing, even if Naruto has mastered Sage mode, and has surpassed Kakashi and is getting towards Jiriaya's level, he lacks the techniques, and experience to kill Pain. If Yamato and Kakashi weren't there to help him, he wouldn't of even beat Kazaku.

[segua]

Correction, Yondaime was known as the "Greatest" whereas Sarutobi Hiruzen was known as the "Strongest."

[Delbi]

I think its strange that Sarutobi was the "strongest" when the 1st could control all of the tailed beasts, had inhuman strength, and hd moukon abilities. He was so powerful that he gave some of the tailed beasts away, I think if anyone should be called the strongest it should be the first, but then again be never have seen Sarutobi in his prime, and after all he was the youngest hokage ever, he was only 16 when he was elected.

[Baron Hugenstein]

I think its strange that Sarutobi was the "strongest" when the 1st could control all of the tailed beasts, had inhuman strength, and hd moukon abilities. He was so powerful that he gave some of the tailed beasts away, I think if anyone should be called the strongest it should be the first, but then again be never have seen Sarutobi in his prime, and after all he was the youngest hokage ever, he was only 16 when he was elected.

Really, where is it stated?
I was under the impression that the 3rd was elected in his mid20s or early 30s

[segua]

I think the Shodaime already held the title as Founding Father and also the strongest ninja of the warring clan era.

[3atman]

didnt jiraya say the 4th was a once in a lifte time ninja.
The first had to be the strongest.

[bean]

everyone makes bold personal statements...they're just that, opinion, not fact. 4th was once in a lifetime ninja but naruto will surpass him but he;s a dumbshit scaredy cat...no one really is an authority on the definite...you just gotta take their statement and apply it in general, not in stone.

[Delbi]

Really, where is it stated?
I was under the impression that the 3rd was elected in his mid20s or early 30s

Its either in the manga chapters that flashback to when Jiriaya and Tsuande were young or its in one of the data books I can't remeber

[Emmanra]

didnt jiraya say the 4th was a once in a lifte time ninja.
The first had to be the strongest.

maybe once in a generation? Sarutobi was strongest of his era. 4th strongest and then it goes downhill. Itachi would have to be strongest in his generation. and was Itachi Kakashi's contemporary? Im wonder if Itachi was part of 4hths generation or Kakashi's

[HPTR Fangirl]

didnt jiraya say the 4th was a once in a lifte time ninja.
The first had to be the strongest.

Are you talking about this?http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/
[hr]

maybe once in a generation? Sarutobi was strongest of his era. 4th strongest and then it goes downhill. Itachi would have to be strongest in his generation. and was Itachi Kakashi's contemporary? Im wonder if Itachi was part of 4hths generation or Kakashi's

I probably suspect Itachi belonged to 4th generation since Kakashi was still child back then. Wasn't he shown to be older in Madara's flashback story.

[bcityballa]

itachi and kakashi were in the same generation. because itachi was in the same ninja war as kakashi, but he was only 4, and Kakashi was already a Jounin. but it would be interesting even thought this is off topic because they were both Anbu Captains.

But itachi was one at a much younger age.. Heck Kakashi could have trained Itachi alil maybe even though at 13 he was a captain.. that would have put kakashi at maybe 18 or 19 when itachi was a captain.
and he was calling Asuma Kurenai and Kakashi SAN when he was speaking with them so they were most likely equals.

[southside]

I hope we get a Sai's true strength chapter pretty soon or
if he doesn't have any more then he's shown I'd like to see a Sai's sacrifice chapter. Where is he while all this carnage is going on anyway?

[snowdog]

I probably suspect Itachi belonged to 4th generation since Kakashi was still child back then. Wasn't he shown to be older in Madara's flashback story.

im sure that kakashi is older. i think he is 5 years older than itachi. after all, Itachi is Sasuke's brother, so techincally he is apart of naruto's generation.

[SMN]

i think kakashi is more like 10 years older than itachi. itachi 18 and kakashi 29

[Delbi]

i think kakashi is more like 10 years older than itachi. itachi 18 and kakashi 29

Itachi died at the age of 24 I believe, he was 15 when he left the village, and Sasuke was 7, that makes him 8 years older than Sasuke who is now 16.

Kakashi is 30, I'm positive of that, because he is 14 years older than Naruto.

[Emmanra]

im sure that kakashi is older. i think he is 5 years older than itachi. after all, Itachi is Sasuke's brother, so techincally he is apart of naruto's generation.

I cant remember but didnt Jiraya says something its the 3rd generation to watch over Naruto. I cant remember
[hr]

I cant remember but didnt Jiraya says something its the 3rd generation to watch over Naruto. I cant remember

Man Itachi was a beast. Talk about Genius of Uchinas. I think when its all said in done Itachi will turn out to be the Genius of Genius. In the end will see a flashback of Itachi reading Jiraya's first book the tale of Naruto and kid Itachi smiling and saying he wants to change the world also

[apathism]

Most people think he is invincible as long as he keep his secret. I don't believe that, just because i have a secret that help me in a fight wouldn't stop Jet Li from whopping my ass.

I dunno man, I'm pretty sure I could whoop Jet Li's ass if I had five more of me acting as one, and the power to revive them if they get hurt.

Sarutobi in his prime would still have a tough time against a superb ninja (able to master all elemental jutsu at a young age), taught by a sannin, and born with a doujutsu of legendary proportions. Senju of the Forest or not, them odds are stacked yo!

[shinobi]

Itachi died at the age of 24 I believe, he was 15 when he left the village, and Sasuke was 7, that makes him 8 years older than Sasuke who is now 16.

Kakashi is 30, I'm positive of that, because he is 14 years older than Naruto.

Itachi is 5 years older than sasuke, he died at age 21, killed his entire clan at age 13, about kakashi I guess he's about 29 now.

[Andonan]

Why are we debating how old Kakashi and Itachi are? What does it have to do with anything, though I will add this, it must have sucked for Kakashi to go grey so young LOL! :p

@Emmanra, I love the theory of Itachi reading Jiraiya's first book, I think that would be really really cool, especially therefore he would appreciate how great Naruto turned out in the end, especially if Itachi thought of that Uzumaki Naruto as a role model growing up.....

I was just thinking maybe the power Itachi gave to Sasuke wasn't actual power.....what if it was just a genjutsu that destroyed Sasuke's moral and his belief, just Itachi talking to Sasuke in the image saying..."If it has come to this Uzumaki Naruto has surpassed you in every way my foolish little brother, I thought after our battle you would realise how wrong it is to pursue revenge, and that hate isn't what makes you strong but love (hut up i know its corney/cliche but roll with it, I'm no Kishi), therefore the young man who stands before you in this battle will forever be stronger than you." Sasuke realizes he is a selfish little idiot and gives up on his revenge hehehe.....

[Kalkojutsu]

Itachi fond of Jiraiya's writings, why not?
even though I'm not absolutely positive those were the kind of stories he liked (romance and stuff :p)

[Belisar]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/13/
doesn't this genjutsu looks similar to this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/04/

two monsters with shraingan/rin'negan eyes.

[gold349]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/13/
doesn't this genjutsu looks similar to this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/04/

two monsters with shraingan/rin'negan eyes.


many have pointed out...which makes a lot of sense that it can't be genjutsu..as gejutsu can only be seen by the person being cast upon...the image was clear/visible form outside that has to mean that it is something physical.

[bean]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/13/
doesn't this genjutsu looks similar to this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/04/

two monsters with shraingan/rin'negan eyes.
I don't think the rin one is a genjutsu...it can be seen from outside the window...

[nat]

I was just thinking maybe the power Itachi gave to Sasuke wasn't actual power.....what if it was just a genjutsu that destroyed Sasuke's moral and his belief, just Itachi talking to Sasuke in the image saying..."If it has come to this Uzumaki Naruto has surpassed you in every way my foolish little brother, I thought after our battle you would realise how wrong it is to pursue revenge, and that hate isn't what makes you strong but love (hut up i know its corney/cliche but roll with it, I'm no Kishi), therefore the young man who stands before you in this battle will forever be stronger than you." Sasuke realizes he is a selfish little idiot and gives up on his revenge hehehe.....

Since he knows that his brother is a bit naive, it wouldn't surprise me if he did that. Sasuke needs a slap on the face to wake up.

I am more interested in how Pein comes along in all of this, after all this is an Uchiha family interprise. Pein is already wreaking havoc in Konoha, will Madara go there or watch at home? And Sasuke's actions in Konoha, I think he will target a few people. It is already a state of emergency, having an assassin with a special platoon target the Elders is twisted:D

No matter how they are protected with ANBU and ROOT agents, they showed vulnerabity. I mean they won't be expecting a 2nd strike, they hardly foresaw the first.
I guess it will get nasty there in the coming arcs.

Another thing, if Madra wants to deal the final blow he has to crush Konoha when they are weak. If he waits for them to make alliances with his enemies (Aka Raikage and others) and call their old suna friends and who knows who, he will lose. He should know not to let the villages come together.

[Belisar]

I don't think the rin one is a genjutsu...it can be seen from outside the window...

many have pointed out...which makes a lot of sense that it can't be genjutsu..as gejutsu can only be seen by the person being cast upon...the image was clear/visible form outside that has to mean that it is something physical.
in the anime the bringer of darkness (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/122/14/) was visible even from outside but in the manga it's not visible (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/123/06/). by the way in the filler there was a girl which could made genjutsu even seen from everywhere.

this dark flame could be amaterasu. ^^'
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/422/04/

who knows what the sign on moster's head means?

[bean]

not amaterasu, and the anime can't be used as an argument against teh manga...the anime makes shit up. They're not the same.

[Dekker]

about the secret: even if you knew that the real isn't there and they receive chakra, so what? do you know where the real one is hiding? do you know how to kill them efficiently? if you guys say it, it sound so easy: find the real one, destroy the receiver.


Thats what they call tactical thinking: Knowin when its useless to prolong the fight but retreat until you found out more.



maybe a village has the power/technologie to destroy the rods, but not jiraya as unprepared as he was. so what i'm trying to say is, that even without knowing the secret you can defeat tham but with a power level above jiraya's.


Well, who knows? But thats the reason why he would have to retreat...



jiraya: damn, he is using the black rods as receiver.
fukasaku: call kakashi. *summons the messenger frog*


well, it's difficult to retreat when you are already at home. should they leave the citizens for pain's mercy and escape?


Ok, you actually realised i was talking about the Pain vs Jirajya fight. What the heck did you try to say here? That different situations might need to be handeled different? Wow dude, thx. Never noticed that without your help ;)

[Trafalgar SoD]

has anybody come to think that maybe the 8 tails has something to do with the destruction of pain since he is free from the cloud now

[Huey Freeman]

has anybody come to think that maybe the 8 tails has something to do with the destruction of pain since he is free from the cloud now

I think his future role will have more to do with showing Naruto how to properly partner with his bijuu. He has to learn this at some point so that he can escape tsukyomi like Killabee did. Kishi wouldn't introduce that ability just to have a very secondary character like Killabee be the only one to use it. Just like we always knew Sasuke would get MS eventually and will also get EMS eventually as well. These types of things are introduced for the sake of primary character development usually.

[uchiha-Kakashi]

I think his future role will have more to do with showing Naruto how to properly partner with his bijuu. He has to learn this at some point so that he can escape tsukyomi like Killabee did. Kishi wouldn't introduce that ability just to have a very secondary character like Killabee be the only one to use it. Just like we always knew Sasuke would get MS eventually and will also get EMS eventually as well. These types of things are introduced for the sake of primary character development usually.

How many Sensei's needs Naruto? Kakashi, Jiraya and the 8-tails. But on the other side sasuke has also 3 Senseis
[hr]

How many Sensei's needs Naruto? Kakashi, Jiraya and the 8-tails. But on the other side Sasuke has also 3 Sensei's(Kakashi, Orochimaru and Madara)

The fight between Naruto and Sasuke will amasing.

[3atman]

I think his future role will have more to do with showing Naruto how to properly partner with his bijuu. He has to learn this at some point so that he can escape tsukyomi like Killabee did. Kishi wouldn't introduce that ability just to have a very secondary character like Killabee be the only one to use it. Just like we always knew Sasuke would get MS eventually and will also get EMS eventually as well. These types of things are introduced for the sake of primary character development usually.

no think about it the killerbee has a unique skill

and 8 arms to hide in and an octopus tentacle grows back as where naruto's wont

[GraveOne]

no think about it the killerbee has a unique skill

and 8 arms to hide in and an octopus tentacle grows back as where naruto's wont

I agree hachiby has unique skills but whats with the diference between Mr 8'o and Kyuby? one is a demon fox the other is a bull - octopus.... and maybe naruto uses the kiubys tails not his "tentacles"... plus it would be hard for some one to cut one of the foxees tails....

[Baron Hugenstein]

I agree hachiby has unique skills but whats with the diference between Mr 8'o and Kyuby? one is a demon fox the other is a bull - octopus.... and maybe naruto uses the kiubys tails not his "tentacles"... plus it would be hard for some one to cut one of the foxees tails....

Well, the bijuu are meant to be different and diverse. So they are supposed to have weakness and strengths directly linked to their shape.

[Shurou]

Well, the bijuu are meant to be different and diverse. So they are supposed to have weakness and strengths directly linked to their shape.

They're supposed to or you think they should? Makes a pretty big difference, y'know. I personally think the physical manifestations have significance only in certain cases... Kyuubi not being one of them, though, since I believe the inspiration is mostly from the prevalent fables of Japanese folklore of the Nine-tailed Fox, and not so much what the Kyuubi could be doing with its nine tails or the fact that it's a fox.

[3atman]

I agree hachiby has unique skills but whats with the diference between Mr 8'o and Kyuby? one is a demon fox the other is a bull - octopus.... and maybe naruto uses the kiubys tails not his "tentacles"... plus it would be hard for some one to cut one of the foxees tails....

When can a fox every regrow its tail (even though this is fiction it still stands)

i say it would be harder to cut habchi's tail over the fox's Squids are freaking awsome

[Baron Hugenstein]

They're supposed to or you think they should? Makes a pretty big difference, y'know. I personally think the physical manifestations have significance only in certain cases... Kyuubi not being one of them, though, since I believe the inspiration is mostly from the prevalent fables of Japanese folklore of the Nine-tailed Fox, and not so much what the Kyuubi could be doing with its nine tails or the fact that it's a fox.

Logically they have to have some weaknesses directly based on their shape.
The reason i wrote "supposed" is because we haven't seen all of the Bijuu, only some of them. So i was accounting for the ones we didn't see yet.

[Kshunsui]

When can a fox every regrow its tail (even though this is fiction it still stands)

i say it would be harder to cut habchi's tail over the fox's Squids are freaking awsome Dude Biju's are made of chakra, If you cut a Biju part just regrowt, and I don't think the tail's of kyuby can be cuted, beacause the fox cloak, even the kusanagi sword can't cut the fox cloack.

[3atman]

what kusanagi sword ?

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

what kusanagi sword ?

Orochimaru's sword.

[Shurou]

Orochimaru's word.

You mean his Sword... Unless you're attempting at some kind of ill-attempted pun... since Oro did vomit that thing up out of his mouth only... EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME. OK, now I'm just forcing my ill-attempted pun on you, lol

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

You mean his Sword... Unless you're attempting at some kind of ill-attempted pun... since Oro did vomit that thing up out of his mouth... OK, now I'm just forcing my ill-attempted pun on you, lol

lol. yeah i meant sword.

[jodi]

Orochimaru will appear from inside a snake and save the day.

[Shurou]

Orochimaru will appear from inside a snake and save the day.

I think I'll die from laughing too much and a stroke out of anger if that happens :p

[Baron Hugenstein]

Orochimaru will appear from inside a snake and save the day.

Only to be captured in a third genjutsu, Probably by Kabuto this time.

[Shurou]

Only to be captured in a third genjutsu,Probably by Kabuto this time.

That is brilliant, and incidentally, I was re-reading the chapter in which Kabuto appears again!

[dasman]

That is brilliant, and incidentally, I was re-reading the chapter in which Kabuto appears again!

Since all this story is some guy's imagination why cant he imagine about some Czochyanojouko Justsu or Zxounyonku Jutsu that naruto learns from jiraya and kill all the bad guys through telepathy or genjutsu. This jutsu can allow him to peek into every human mind and see if they are evil or good.
:darn

[Shurou]

You know, this thread died out a lot faster than the thread for Chapter 421. I suppose it's because it was an action chapter, eh?

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

You know, this thread died out a lot faster than the thread for Chapter 421. I suppose it's because it was an action chapter, eh?

It because a controversial spoiler came out and most people are posting in the spoiler thread. Usually once some spoilers come out the prediction/dicussion thread usually die out.

[Shurou]

It because a controversial spoiler came out and most people are posting in the spoiler thread. Usually once some spoilers come out the prediction/dicussion thread usually die out.

Well, I'm not the type to read spoilers (only adds to the agitation of waiting xP), so I guess that's why. Thanks for the heads-up, anyways, Knuckle!

[Sammy-kun]

I belive that the bodies of the pains are ALREADY dead but the chakra transmitters makes them come back to life, if they are taken out. the bodies will be nonfunction again. This is the secret of pains strength.

[enmymiguel]

WOW i can believe 1 of pein body was defeated. anyway now we have to wait to the pein that can revived other body

[Sammy-kun]

Thats because when he charged into the barrier, apparantly the frog elders told jiraiya or belived that pain had no idea what is happening. When that guy charged, He could no longer receive any chakra through those transmiters and that spelled out defeat for one of the pains.

[Baron Hugenstein]

WOW i can believe 1 of pein body was defeated. anyway now we have to wait to the pein that can revived other body

I think that Pain needs only the black pieces, i.e "transmitters", to be revived. It seems like it is similar to a robot in a off-mode and on-mode.