Minato, The Yellow Flash vs. The Uchiha bros; Sasuke and Itachi

[GOKURO-3君]

Well?

A quick reminder on abilities...
Minato: Can virtually teleport and use the battleground to his own advantage...
Sasuke: Is very talented in basically all fields of Ninjutsu (as shown in Franckie's analysis on Sasuke)...
Itachi: Is the best Genjutsu user in the Narutoverse, and can use very strong ninjutsu such as Amaterasu...

[Csdabest]

I have to say Sasuke and Itachi. They are both very intelligent as well and good battle analyzers. They will soon find out that the trick to the 4th's is through the tag and after that. it will be a rap. Maybe one on one with one another it would be a better fight. But facing of the Super Uchiha Bros. I doubt he will last.

[bigtymer32]

well from what we know i go with minato.

[ninjabot]

From what we know, Minato is basically a Jiraiya that can be in more than one place at once. He has Gamabunta, so we can assume he can summon the less chakra consuming frogs and possibly Ma and Pa. He has Rasengan, but we don't know how far he was able to advance it (he could only be able to do the basic Rasengan for all we know. Not even Oodama).

He is a Hokage, which gives him props for skill...but when you have Hokage's getting pwned by teenagers (Tsunade vs. Kabuto) that takes ALOT away from that title. We don't know what element he manipulates. We don't know how efficiently he can deal with (use or escape) Genjutsu, if at all.

Not alot to go with...

Against Sasuke and Itachi. I'm assuming it's the current version of each character, right? If so, the fight should come down to how well they can keep Minato from throwing Hiraishin-kunai. The Sharingan should help with that. If Itachi were to keep casting Genjutsu and Sasuke stuck to playing interferance Minato would be screwed. I see something like Minato throwing a kunai at Itachi, teleporting in to attack him, only to be hurt by his Bunshin Bakuha. Or teleporting to hit Itachi, only to find that it's a Genjutsu, and then getting bombarded with a hail of Katon. Minato obviously can't see while he's teleporting because his whole body disappears, so Itachi's already unreadable handseals will be impossible to predict.

Sasuke could use his pinpoint precision to deflect every kunai launched at him, the same way he did against Itachi's shuriken. And that was ALOT of shuriken. But again, he would most likely just confuse Minato long enough for Itachi to bring out the big guns. While Minato is attempting to hit Sasuke, Itachi can launch Amaterasu or summon Susano'o. If he doesn't connect with Amaterasu, the heat will still be enough to prepare Sasuke's Kirin. By that point Itachi would need to only Genjutsu Minato into confusion while Sasuke drops Kirin.

If all of that fails, then Sasuke sits behind Susano'o's shield as Itachi starts absorbing frog summons left and right. Or Sasuke simply takes control of one of them the same way he did Manda and uses it against Minato.

Again this is all going on what we know of Minato. I give the victory to the brothers.

[Forever_Melody]

I know people like Minato, but it's still 2 against 1 and for any characters of similar level, that doesn't bode well. I'm not saying Sasuke & Itachi are above Minato necessarily(that's to each's opinions), but they're not leagues apart either(I'd say Itachi is pretty close to Minato IMO) so the numbers do count for a lot.

Also, as ninjabot stated, we know very little about Minato other than, he has Hiraishin, Rasengan, toad summons and Shiki Fuuin. Now I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that isn't the limit of his arsenal, but it's the limit we've seen and therefore it'd be fruitless to try and assume more. I'm not saying we assume he's stuck at that, but it'd also be pointless to go on 'what if'.

Basically, there are 2 issues with this fight:
- it's 2 against 1 (which is a huge factor when the fighters' levels aren't that far apart)
- we know very little of Minato while we know a crapload on the other 2(and that crapload is pretty darn impressive too)

[Csdabest]

Yeah all there is to Minato is Hirashin, Rasengan, Toads summoning, and Shiki Fuujin. Hirashin and Rasengan is what he is known for. So its safe to say these are his top 2 Jutus's. Because Uchiha was on his side so he didnt have to worry about them back in his day and truthfully there isnt many shinobi that can beat that combination.

Now. The ol' fighting Uchiha law.

If its one on one you should run
If its two on one have one distract and the other attack.

Thing is.....you are the only one and there are two uchiha which is safe to say that They are most likely the strongest Uchiha Next to Madara and his brother. And it safe to say That the Uchiha along with the Senju breeded some of the strongest Nin in the shinobi world. And for these two to be the top of that list. I know Minato is good and strong and all. But he isnt invincible. And i honestly after seeing Sasuke and Itachi inaction especially itachi, i dont think there is any shinobi that can take on both of them alone.

[Eddy01741]

A 2 on 1 is way too lopsided. Basically Itachi is kage level or high jounin/near kage level, and Sasuke is pretty much jounin if not high jounin level, that against one kage level ninja who never even reached his peak (died too young) and its obvious who will win.

[The Flash]

uh - there's a reason why Yondaime "minato", is known the "greatest" and still greatest ninja in history. And oh yeah.. dont forget he is the great Hokage ever lived - surpassing the third, and first in every way. Kishimoto(the author of naruto) declared that title for him. The only person that will only surpass Minato, and be declared the next greatest, is his son, Naruto. Sorry sasuke fans, the top dog of this story is naruto.... so uchiha fans... please cry me a river.

But dont get me wrong, Itachi and sasuke are tough. But minato will dismantle them both easily. And we've only seen a tiny bit of Minato's ability... so please don't assume rasengan and Hiraishin are just his top two jutsu's. (but i'm not surprise if hiraishin is his top two since its an S-Rank, and rasengan is only just an A-rank)

Remember how powerful the first hokage with all the bijuu's in his hands... well Minato was considered the strongest of all the hokages. Debates are shut down, because The author, Kishimoto, said so by making that bold and true statement of the fourth hokage. .... so yeah.


------------------------

and oh yeah dont give me a weak argument of Minato dieing when fighting the kyuubi. Listen guys, minato was also protecting the village at the same process.

Remember how Gaara fought Deidara, Deidara harmed the village.... and we all know its Kage's duties to protect the village. In my honest opinion, If Gaara fought deidara one - on -one without any interference - Gaara wouldve kicked Deidara's ass.


p.s - There's also a reason why Kishimoto hasn't showed a lot of Minato.Kishimoto declared him that title...and still wants that title to belong to him only, till naruto surpasses him. Kishi was smart on not showing too many events of him in battle - since that will make things controversial if he is the greatest ninja

[kkck]

We dont know much about minato´s abilities, but he is going againts 2 MS. potencially 6 diferent techniques which basicaly could be considered 1 hit ko in any normal circumstance. I would have to say uchiha bros win, fighting 2 MS sharingans who could cover each others back (which is the only point from which they are just as vulnerable as any other person).

[Csdabest]

uh - there's a reason why Yondaime "minato", is known the "greatest" and still greatest ninja in history. And oh yeah.. dont forget he is the great Hokage ever lived - surpassing the third, and first in every way. Kishimoto(the author of naruto) declared that title for him. The only person that will only surpass Minato, and be declared the next greatest, is his son, Naruto. Sorry sasuke fans, the top dog of this story is naruto.... so uchiha fans... please cry me a river.

But dont get me wrong, Itachi and sasuke are tough. But minato will dismantle them both easily. And we've only seen a tiny bit of Minato's ability... so please don't assume rasengan and Hiraishin are just his top two jutsu's. (but i'm not surprise if hiraishin is his top two since its an S-Rank, and rasengan is only just an A-rank)

Remember how powerful the first hokage with all the bijuu's in his hands... well Minato was considered the strongest of all the hokages. Debates are shut down, because The author, Kishimoto, said so by make that bold and true statement of the fourth hokage. .... so yeah.

Those has been titles thrown around by Jounin. I dont think there was ever an official statement. And Minato was the greatest Ninja Konoha has ever produced. Madara and Hashirama was not produced by Konoha. Their skills and abilities were hoaned before Konoha came into the equation booting them out of that factor. Itachi and Sasuke can't really be included either since they also progressed outside of the village and not through konoha. Itachi through Madara and Sasuke through Orochimaru.

There has also been much powerful nin outside of the village who changed and grew and has become stronger. Orochimaru for example. Was competeting with Minato for the 4th Hokage title. That was a younger orochimaru. And to be in competition would mean he was near or close to his level. Then he progressed after words. Which could have put his abiltieis over the 4ths.

Minato is strong but he isnt invincible. He could probably give an amazing fight and take on and overcome 1 ninja who are on or near his level of ability. But taking on two of some of the strongest Nin in the manga is just begging it. Also remember greatest doesn' always mean strongest. Minato lived an honoroable life and was talented and powerful. You can be the strongest and psosibely be the worst dishonerable ninja in the history.

Like Sasuke for example. He is clearly stronger than Naruto. But Naruto is the better shinobi because he understands his loyalty and fulffills his loyalty to his village and knows what teamwork is. Thought a better shinobi is not strnger than Sasuke, Just like people been saying Though Sasuke maybe be stronger Naruto would make a better hokage. So what defines a great ninja isnt always power.

From what we have seen from Minato. He fits the roll of a great ninja. from Kakashi Gaiden. Being able to protect his squad and neutralize the enemy with minimal casulties. Assest a situation and use tactics to overcome the situation. Completeing his own mission while keeping his former comrades and friends safe. Sticking a battle through an turning around the odds. In a battle.

These right here say that he is a great ninja and possibely one of the best. But there is nothing indicating what power he has or how strong he is. The manga makes classifcation of strongest and greatest clearly when it tries to seperate them apart.

Now. It clear Rasengan(or a varient such as odama or big ultra ball rasengan) is consider to be in his top arsenal. It was a very powerful jutsu back in "his" day. Constently new jutsu and stronger jutsu are being discovered and created. I think your trying to compare one of his jutsu to one of the super ones of today. Rasengan was a jutsu that pushed Spatial manipulation to its limits. And is a jutsu that cant be learned by everyone. His most powerful is most likely the Shiki Fujin but its just a double edge sword. So its not recommened.

Minato is a great genius in the shinobi world. But he is fighting two of the greatest genius in narutoverse as well. Who w/o the sharingan can be formidable shinobi. More likely Minato was most likely up there with "The Legendary Three Sannin" and "The White Fang".

Im not taking nothing from Minato. But I seriously doubt he can take on Sasuke and Itachi. And Kakashi stated taht Naruto would be the one to surpass him. I beleive that was in refference into surpassing the 4th by adding element to the Rasengan which was almsot deemed impossible.

But all this talk has be wanting to Make a fanfic about Minato and Sakumo.


Also. As seen in the clips and scenes of the Kyuubi attack. Minato seemed to have all the Jounin and Chuunin level ninja's helping him.

[Raizen]

From what we have seen from minato, his movements are too fast for anyone to see.

It doesn't matter if someone has the sharingan or not, they can't counter something that swift if they can't react fast enough. They may be able to see it but their movements aren't necessarily quick enough to avoid it.

All Minato has to do is get a tag on each of the brothers, it shouldn't be too hard given how fast he is and how skilled he is in a fight. From what we have heard, none of the 4th attacks have handseals, thus making it impossible for the uchihas to predict his moves. When the tags are on the bros, he just has to send rasengan from his hands and teleport to to the opponent left and right, no way any of them would be able to counter such a fast succession of attacks.

Also, MS techniques like amaretsu may be turned back on sasuke. The 4th has the ability to bend space and time. SO whose to say he can't teleport the attacks back at the uchihas. I am in no way denying the uchihas their strength. Minato will ultimately win, but it is going to be a good match

@ Csdabest, Ninjas being produced by konoha are the same as those living in konoha, this includes Madara, Itachi, the 1st, oro, etc. Don't try to weasel your way out of it. And oro was in his prime when he wanted to be hokage while Minato was about 18, nowhere even close to how strong he could become. Yet even anko stated that had the 4th been alive, no way oro would dare invade konoha and she knows oro's strength given that he is her sensei

White Fang is on a higher level than the Sannins, and Minato is leagues above the Sannin given be the convo between tsunade and J-man and other various ninjas. Just face it, the 4th is the best ninja konoha ever produced and has yet to be surpassed in skills by anyone

[The Flash]

@ Csdabest - I guess It all comes down to opinion. But I'm clinging to what the author said - That minato is the greatest hokage in narutoverse or in History, And that only. Minato is Naruto's barrier/wall he needs to overcome to become the new greatest hokage in history.

- Other than that, you guys can use your imaginations... But dont get me wrong.. hands down.. if this fight ever happened - It will be an epic scene...But ofcourse I think minato will defeat them both. The speed of Hiraishin is just too great for the sharingan to detect.

@Raizen - you bring very good points.(all of your points support and backup my true claim :)) thanks

[Csdabest]

From what we have seen from minato, his movements are too fast for anyone to see.

It doesn't matter if someone has the sharingan or not, they can't counter something that swift if they can't react fast enough. They may be able to see it but their movements aren't necessarily quick enough to avoid it.

All Minato has to do is get a tag on each of the brothers, it shouldn't be too hard given how fast he is and how skilled he is in a fight. From what we have heard, none of the 4th attacks have handseals, thus making it impossible for the uchihas to predict his moves. When the tags are on the bros, he just has to send rasengan from his hands and teleport to to the opponent left and right, no way any of them would be able to counter such a fast succession of attacks.

Also, MS techniques like amaretsu may be turned back on sasuke. The 4th has the ability to bend space and time. SO whose to say he can't teleport the attacks back at the uchihas. I am in no way denying the uchihas their strength. Minato will ultimately win, but it is going to be a good match

@ Csdabest, Ninjas being produced by konoha are the same as those living in konoha, this includes Madara, Itachi, the 1st, oro, etc. Don't try to weasel your way out of it. And oro was in his prime when he wanted to be hokage while Minato was about 18, nowhere even close to how strong he could become. Yet even anko stated that had the 4th been alive, no way oro would dare invade konoha and she knows oro's strength given that he is her sensei

White Fang is on a higher level than the Sannins, and Minato is leagues above the Sannin given be the convo between tsunade and J-man and other various ninjas. Just face it, the 4th is the best ninja konoha ever produced and has yet to be surpassed in skills by anyone

Um His speed is from his tags. And he has to placed those tags first. Nothing has been said abot his normal speed. So dont just go assuming that two Nin's that can predict a person movements and see high speed movements and someone as sklled in taijutsu and weaponry skills is going to let him put a tag on him. You talk as if their are retarded genin.

All Itachi has to do it point a finger. And Minato is done and or while he dealing with the genjutsu. Sasuke could quickly deal with Minato. Minato is not invincible. the way you talk about his teleportation your making it sound like he can do it at will. He has to have the tag placed. And once it first used. And most likely it will fail. The tag trick would be practically useless directly.

Once again. You trying to make it seem like its done at will. If Minato gets caught with Amaterasu he if basically finish. If he tries tot eleport away 9/10 the flame is going with him. And i doubt he is putting a paper tag on a fire that said to be as hot as the sun to teleport it away. Your views on Hirashin are extremely flawed. He can't get around with Hirashin with out having the tags in a area. And i see no way that Hirashin can send a MS technique back at the uchiha's.

They are not the same at all. By that logic. If Pein goes to live in Konoha that means Konoha produced him. its not the same at all. Hashairama and Madara can't be placed in the category as being produced by Konoha. They grew up with their respective clans and produced and breed by their respective clans. Hashirama is a product of Senju and Madara Uchiha. Thats why Madara is considered as being one of the strongest Uchiha that ever existed. Madara is not even mentioned being associated with Konoha anymore. or being breed by them. Hashairama the same. Neither was trained in konoha. Minato yes. Professor yes. There is a huge difference. Konoha can't take credit for producing Such nins as Madara and Hashirama. And when the professor beat Both the 2nd and 1st Indoubt they were at their full potential. Definetly hashirama. Cuz he sure as hell didnt use several bijuu's in that fight

Also Anko made that statement yes. But Orochimaru made a statement himself. He wouldn't dare go after Itachi cuz Itachi would surely kill him. Anko outside source from back when she knew Orochimaru. Its safe to say Orochimaru grew since he left anko as a little kid. Orochimaru made a personal statement about Him going against Itachi. So your point on what anko said has just become void.

Also the White Fang, Was said to be on the same level of respect and skill as the Sannin. And I dont ever remember Minato bein said to have surpassed The three sannin. He proabably surpassed Jiraya. But nothing about being leagues above. As far as Im concerned due to what has been shown and the two at their best. Itachi>Jiraya. There seems to be more evidence pointing that Minato, Sakumo, Jiraya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade are all around the same level with obvious A>B. And no one is trying to weseal out of anything. Im just stating facts and opinions backed by facts.

Also you say that. But as far as Im concerned Madara, Pein<<<Minato. Madara has already been stated by kakashi to have a spacetime even greater than Minato cuz no tags or seals are needed. And has phased through high speed attacks, Rasnegan, and other blows. So that right their shuts just about everything Minato has.

Jiraya in Hermit Mode struggled against 3 pains then got tooled when all of them came out. And most likely Minato would get tooled and be rather clueless against pein cuz he most likely has zero connection or knowlege of Jiraya trainning them.

[Eddy01741]

I'm pretty sure that it was said that yondaime could teleport to any place he knew of, so if he looked one place, he could teleport there, I may be wrong, since the info about yondaime was pretty old in the manga and i don't have the time to check.

[kkck]

I think sharingan could see where minato throwing the tags and predict their trajectory. This would allow both uchihas to predict where minato is going to pop out off and counter attack. Normal ninjas can protect themself from kunais and shuriken by just reacting fast enough and bloking them. Maybe minato can throw those tags faster than anyone in narutoverse (hasnt been stated), but both uchihas have what probably is the strongest sharingans in their generation (I know the rest of uchihas were killed but that is not the point).

[Csdabest]

I'm pretty sure that it was said that yondaime could teleport to any place he knew of, so if he looked one place, he could teleport there, I may be wrong, since the info about yondaime was pretty old in the manga and i don't have the time to check.

It was never said or portayed like that. All evidence showing him using hirashin was with a tag and never looking and being able to teleport there. Madara is the closest person to pull off that feat. Kakashi as well with his MS jutsu.
[hr]
Seriously One on one Sasuke or Itachi would give Minato a run for his money with Itachi giving more of a run. But minato would definetly win imo. But Saying he can take on both Sasuke and Itachi at their greatest is like i said before. Begging it.

[The Adamant Dragon]

How can you people even dare to compare Minato and the Uchiha Duo? We're talking about a man feared by countless villages even before he became Hokage and was just a jounin. At the third ninja war, before the enemies reached Konoha, they were told to run if they met ''Konoha's yellow flash'' and not Sarutobi who was Hokage at that time. He was the strongest Ninja of his Era. So comparing him to Itachi and Sasuke just because of the sharigan is Blasphemy :P

He's an icon. And probably the best caracter Kishi created for this manga.

[nat]

Itachi and bro FTW, for the reasons Csdabest stated.( which are much more elaborate than my post :p)
Honestly Itachi the renown genius with a godsend bloodline at 13 was playing with gods (Madara and so on)...Plus, so what? Yondi can do Hirashin, the bros' speed is overwhelming ( according to kakashi) and need I remind you the Sauce can use Time/space Justu and their mothers...

For the love of god, it is 2 Uchihas with very advanced Sharingan against Yondi..Plus Sasuke has similar techniques (high level summons) and so on... wasn't it Kakashi who said," see Itachi and run like hell" (replying to Chiyo's counter-Uchiha tactic) in other words...>They are badass

I know Minato is a genius and all that...But Compared to the sharingod than in the manga is shown to be GODSEND and untouchable, he sorta comes lacking. [Not only one MS but 2]

I do not invent stuff from my head, we saw it in the last 80 chapter or so :D

[Baron Hugenstein]

Wow, This scenario is not fair. Minato would be crushed if it is 1 on 2 and the enemy the Uchiha bros.
Well, all the facts and reasons were stated by Csdabest, ninjabot and e-nat.

Perhaps if it was 1 on 1, Minato Against Itachi or Sasuke. Then, Minato's chances of winning might exceed 30%(that's against Sasuke) and 10-15%(against Itachi) but that's i can give the guy.

[neomaster121]

whoa
we all only know of 4 techniques from the 4th hokage
rasengan
hirashin
fujin shiki
summoning

now from those techniques listed i couldn't say he would beat the 2 brothers
but obviously he would have more than just those 4 jutsu's, rasengan to me seems a bit hyped from when it was first introduced and summoning will end up being a bit ineffective against these 2 unless we see ma n pa then that may also lead to senjutsu powers (but we have no clue)
really all you guys are going on is if the combo of the 4ths rasengan n hirashin is enough to beat itachi n sasuke
dang on that yea sasuke n itachi would beat him with almost no problem but for him to be made hokage so early on must mean he has more than just the jutsu's we none, n without full knowledge this thread makes no sense

n why both of the brothers, with the infor we have on itachi n the 4th u might as well just say the itachi would beat the 4th hands down. Sussono vs shiki fujin i wonder what would win unless itachi sealed that guy up quick.
Theres just not enough infor on the 4th n if people atcually use the infor that we currently have on the 3 then theres no logical argument to how the 4th would win.

Tag on the back, Why would itachi or sasuke let that happen. Plus sasuke isn't all great yet well not until we see how he handles himself with the 8tails guy

[Csdabest]

How can you people even dare to compare Minato and the Uchiha Duo? We're talking about a man feared by countless villages even before he became Hokage and was just a jounin. At the third ninja war, before the enemies reached Konoha, they were told to run if they met ''Konoha's yellow flash'' and not Sarutobi who was Hokage at that time. He was the strongest Ninja of his Era. So comparing him to Itachi and Sasuke just because of the sharigan is Blasphemy :P

He's an icon. And probably the best caracter Kishi created for this manga.


Yeah that was said about Yondi. But Guess what. It was also said about the Uchiha clan. And not even the elite amongst the Uchiha clan. Just your average Uchiha by yours Truely Chiyo. Who is a battle vet and had her runs around the block. It was almost to the point it was law and princible rules of engagement for taking on an Uchiha. That was said for your average. Elites are a different story.

I want a Shisui arc. I can only imagine Shisui and Konoha's White fangs abilities.
[hr]
Also with Hirashi. It not really a jutsu more of a weapon skill since its with Tags. Once its found out then its effectiveness should decrease greatly. Also Orochimaru was once rivaled with minato for Hokage title. And Sasuke at that age made Orochimaru seem like nothing. And he couldn't have been that much of an age difference with that statement. And as you grow you just dont go from being considered as nothing to someone great. but this point is just being put out there to refer to Sasuke's skills.

[Parth]

impossible to say. we dont have enough on yondaime to conclude.. but one things for certain, had it not ben a handicap, minato would win. however itachi and sasuke are both not only uchihas,, but actuall geniuss as well.
so, not comparing the abiliteis (since we dont know much about yondaime) its 1 genius against 2.,, aand all of them starting out as prodigies..
for everyone who says that yondaime would win because he was a kage,, well im more than definate that if the whole uchiha massacare hadnt taken place, itachi would have been the godaime or a fair candidate for the sixt hokage.

so ya,, thats what i think, only because its 2 on 1 , id say the uchihas win (although id want Mr.Namizake to win hehehe)

[Marq]

Kind of hard really. Can't tell, not enough info with Minato at all to make this stupid battle comparsion. Haven't seen much of his data. But going with everything, it's probably the Uchihas. Kishi pretty much made them a godsend (hell he made Minato's teleporation look like a joke once Madara showed his version), much as I love Minato and hate the god moding Uchihas, they probably can defeat him.

One on one though?

Sasuke would get his ass kicked. Itachi would be a match, seeing as he's more well rounded.

[The Flash]

Um His speed is from his tags. And he has to placed those tags first. Nothing has been said abot his normal speed. So dont just go assuming that two Nin's that can predict a person movements and see high speed movements and someone as sklled in taijutsu and weaponry skills is going to let him put a tag on him. You talk as if their are retarded genin.

All Itachi has to do it point a finger. And Minato is done and or while he dealing with the genjutsu. Sasuke could quickly deal with Minato. Minato is not invincible. the way you talk about his teleportation your making it sound like he can do it at will. He has to have the tag placed. And once it first used. And most likely it will fail. The tag trick would be practically useless directly.

Once again. You trying to make it seem like its done at will. If Minato gets caught with Amaterasu he if basically finish. If he tries tot eleport away 9/10 the flame is going with him. And i doubt he is putting a paper tag on a fire that said to be as hot as the sun to teleport it away. Your views on Hirashin are extremely flawed. He can't get around with Hirashin with out having the tags in a area. And i see no way that Hirashin can send a MS technique back at the uchiha's.

They are not the same at all. By that logic. If Pein goes to live in Konoha that means Konoha produced him. its not the same at all. Hashairama and Madara can't be placed in the category as being produced by Konoha. They grew up with their respective clans and produced and breed by their respective clans. Hashirama is a product of Senju and Madara Uchiha. Thats why Madara is considered as being one of the strongest Uchiha that ever existed. Madara is not even mentioned being associated with Konoha anymore. or being breed by them. Hashairama the same. Neither was trained in konoha. Minato yes. Professor yes. There is a huge difference. Konoha can't take credit for producing Such nins as Madara and Hashirama. And when the professor beat Both the 2nd and 1st Indoubt they were at their full potential. Definetly hashirama. Cuz he sure as hell didnt use several bijuu's in that fight

Also Anko made that statement yes. But Orochimaru made a statement himself. He wouldn't dare go after Itachi cuz Itachi would surely kill him. Anko outside source from back when she knew Orochimaru. Its safe to say Orochimaru grew since he left anko as a little kid. Orochimaru made a personal statement about Him going against Itachi. So your point on what anko said has just become void.

Also the White Fang, Was said to be on the same level of respect and skill as the Sannin. And I dont ever remember Minato bein said to have surpassed The three sannin. He proabably surpassed Jiraya. But nothing about being leagues above. As far as Im concerned due to what has been shown and the two at their best. Itachi>Jiraya. There seems to be more evidence pointing that Minato, Sakumo, Jiraya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade are all around the same level with obvious A>B. And no one is trying to weseal out of anything. Im just stating facts and opinions backed by facts.

Also you say that. But as far as Im concerned Madara, Pein<<<Minato. Madara has already been stated by kakashi to have a spacetime even greater than Minato cuz no tags or seals are needed. And has phased through high speed attacks, Rasnegan, and other blows. So that right their shuts just about everything Minato has.

Jiraya in Hermit Mode struggled against 3 pains then got tooled when all of them came out. And most likely Minato would get tooled and be rather clueless against pein cuz he most likely has zero connection or knowlege of Jiraya trainning them.

now now now, there's no need to contradict yourself saying "I'm not taking anything from Minato". It seems to me your clearly an uchiha fan at heart. Nothing wrong with that - but i will assure you naruto will surpass all of your uchiha fav's.

Anyways.. now your using imagination. Ok i'll give you a scenario - We all know Minato has a great chakra. Ex of this: Minato summon the big frog boss - which requires a high amount of chakra.

Ok anyways here's the scenario - minato peforms Tajyuu kage bunshin at the spot, and throws about 100 Hiraishin tags around sasuke, and Itachi. At the blink of an eye(about a mili- second), minato will say goodbye to itachi and sasuke. (you gotta love space-time techniques ->> controls time and space)

So now dont give me any of your imaginations of what sasuke and itachi can do, "such as pointing a finger and put you in a gengutsu" oh please.. and oh btw Ametarasu doesnt hit you really fast - Sasuke dodged it a couple of times.

I'm pretty sure minato using kage bunshins and having 100 tags in and around sasuke/itachi grounds - will completely eliminate both of them... in a blink of an eye. Also with all those tags surrounding itachi, and sasuke, Minato then can appear around them simultaneously. heh and it won't even take a second to do so.... and i believe it will take sasuke/itachi more than a few seconds to perform hand-seals to have a counter attack... SO i'm predicting if Minato performed that attack... i say i'd give it two seconds before itachi and sasuke is KO.

A ninja can have the best lines of defense, or the ultimate one hit k-o technique. But if you can appear behind someones back in the blink of an eye (about a milli-second) and kill them. Then my friend, you are the top dog ninja.

The funny thing is, What we all know about Minato right now is Rasengan, and Hiraishin. And look how deadly of a scenario i can make with those two techniques.

So i'll say it now (stated by the manga and author) - "Minato is still considered the GREATEST Ninja in HISTORY---- and the next to claim that title is not your beloved uchiha's, it is naruto" --- can you really blame me of being a Naruto fan? - Afterall the manga is called "NARUTO"

[Necron]

i dont want to predict the winner or guess who it would be... but i think the fight would start like this :

-minato vanished...
-BAM -sasuke dead
-Itachi:" what the hell...?"
-minato: " now its fair isnt it ? one on one , lets do it"
-itachi: "Fair? yeah whatever you say ....Mangekyou sharingan !!!!"

and this would be my dream start of the fight

actually itachi is my favorite character but minato is ...minato, and the other ninjas really shit their pants when they heard his name in the ninja war
so i dont know who would win
and i actually dont care as long as sasuke doesnt survive XD

[The Flash]

Um His speed is from his tags. And he has to placed those tags first. Nothing has been said abot his normal speed. So dont just go assuming that two Nin's that can predict a person movements and see high speed movements and someone as sklled in taijutsu and weaponry skills is going to let him put a tag on him. You talk as if their are retarded genin.


And oh yeah. My other post was too crunched. I'll make another scenario(this refers to your first paragraph quoted) That minato can do.

Minato Throws about 30 "Tagged Kunai's" at Sasuke's And Itacihi remote Location. Then simultaneously attack and appear at their location(which will take a "mili-second to a second" to do), then when their not noticing since Minato is moving to one location to another in a blink of an eye, Minato will then place a tag directly on their body.

Oh oh - What happens to any ninja when a hiraishin tag is on them? Its KO.

Stated by Adamant Dragon - Minato is like a god, feared by villages. Hence the reason why he is the greatest Ninja in History.

According to Poll results, and facts BACKED Up from the manga. Its hands down to Minato.
[hr]


<hr noshade size="1">
Also with Hirashi. It not really a jutsu more of a weapon skill since its with Tags. Once its found out then its effectiveness should decrease greatly. Also Orochimaru was once rivaled with minato for Hokage title. And Sasuke at that age made Orochimaru seem like nothing. And he couldn't have been that much of an age difference with that statement. And as you grow you just dont go from being considered as nothing to someone great. but this point is just being put out there to refer to Sasuke's skills.


LOL OK. Sasuke beating on a half-dead Orochimaru makes him tough alright. Sasuke even admitted to this. And dont forget when Anko said "Orochimaru wound't dare to invade Konoha, if Minato was still living at that time"

[The Adamant Dragon]

And oh yeah. My other post was too crunched. I'll make another scenario(this refers to your first paragraph quoted) That minato can do.

Minato Throws about 30 "Tagged Kunai's" at Sasuke's And Itacihi remote Location. Then simultaneously attack and appear at their location(which will take a "mili-second to a second" to do), then when their not noticing since Minato is moving to one location to another in a blink of an eye, Minato will then place a tag directly on their body.

Oh oh - What happens to any ninja when a hiraishin tag is on them? Its KO.

Exactly, and it's the same thing Sarutobi did to the 1st and 2nd Hokage when he fought Orochimaru, Only Minato's a Million times better. Not only that but we barely know about the guy's Jutsus... But with the small infos we've got about him, we already know that he his match for any ninja. He's a smart-ass guy who created countless of jutsu, he was a pure genuis <--- He created Rasengan, the Death-God technique, his space-time jutsu and probably many other jutsus we don't know about.

When Sarutobi was fighting Orochimaru, Nidaime and Shodaime, he was losing... and he knew that if he lost, Konoha would be done for... So when he rised to his feet, Guess who's jutsu he used to Save Konoha from complete destruction? * Yondaime's *. If it weren't for that jutsu Minato created, Konoha would've been obliterated. What sickens me is the reason why they're assuming The uchiha Duettes can defeat Someone we barely know about... How can they assume this equation:

( Itachi x Sasuke ) - Yondaime = Uchiha's victory... When we don't even know the Guy's Complete Arsenal of jutsu.

Put this in mind... If with the Glimps of infos we know About Minato Namikaze's arsenal of jutsus and imcomplete Data about his strengh, he's Already able to fight two Uchihas at once <-- with imcomplete info... Can you Imagine what he'd do to the Uchihas if It were complete ?

Don't Get me wrong...I Too appreciate Itachi. He's also by far one the greatest caracters in this manga, But comparing him to Yondaime? You ain't having me there... Yondaime is in a level that haven't been reached yet in this manga. That's the way Kishi sets him up. And to have them daring to say that Itachi and sasuke can take him out is pure Bulls**t. Even the guy who created this thread decided to put 2 Uchiha powerhouse against him... that says it all.

[Eddy01741]

Um, sorry to be of a minor annoyance asking this question, but wasn't it stated that Minato could teleport anywhere he wanted that he knew of? I may have just made that up in my mind since i watched/read that so long ago.

Anyways, as proof, during Kakashi Gaiden, right after seperating the earth ninja shadow clone and Kakashi (because the earth ninja clone was about to counterattack), he appears right behind the earth ninja with a kunai, I didn't see any tags there. I think the tags is just for him to support his allies in battles when they need help. As he said, when the kunai flies in the air, he is notified, and therefore he can teleport there.

[e-dog]

now now now, there's no need to contradict yourself saying "I'm not taking anything from Minato". It seems to me your clearly an uchiha fan at heart. Nothing wrong with that - but i will assure you naruto will surpass all of your uchiha fav's.

Anyways.. now your using imagination. Ok i'll give you a scenario - We all know Minato has a great chakra. Ex of this: Minato summon the big frog boss - which requires a high amount of chakra.

Ok anyways here's the scenario - minato peforms Tajyuu kage bunshin at the spot, and throws about 100 Hiraishin tags around sasuke, and Itachi. At the blink of an eye(about a mili- second), minato will say goodbye to itachi and sasuke. (you gotta love space-time techniques ->> controls time and space)

So now dont give me any of your imaginations of what sasuke and itachi can do, "such as pointing a finger and put you in a gengutsu" oh please.. and oh btw Ametarasu doesnt hit you really fast - Sasuke dodged it a couple of times.

I'm pretty sure minato using kage bunshins and having 100 tags in and around sasuke/itachi grounds - will completely eliminate both of them... in a blink of an eye. Also with all those tags surrounding itachi, and sasuke, Minato then can appear around them simultaneously. heh and it won't even take a second to do so.... and i believe it will take sasuke/itachi more than a few seconds to perform hand-seals to have a counter attack... SO i'm predicting if Minato performed that attack... i say i'd give it two seconds before itachi and sasuke is KO.

A ninja can have the best lines of defense, or the ultimate one hit k-o technique. But if you can appear behind someones back in the blink of an eye (about a milli-second) and kill them. Then my friend, you are the top dog ninja.

The funny thing is, What we all know about Minato right now is Rasengan, and Hiraishin. And look how deadly of a scenario i can make with those two techniques.

So i'll say it now (stated by the manga and author) - "Minato is still considered the GREATEST Ninja in HISTORY---- and the next to claim that title is not your beloved uchiha's, it is naruto" --- can you really blame me of being a Naruto fan? - Afterall the manga is called "NARUTO"

Xcuse me?
Ever heard of KAWARIMI??? 1 of the basic Ninja techniques.
I'm sure teleporting that much will drain minato's chakra real fast. Especially when he created 100 KB's (If he is even able to with his chakra).


Minato isn't god, Sasuke and Itachi won't fall for something as simple as that.
Ever heard of the sharingan? You know... it's a little thing that can predict your movements, copy them, see right through your techniques, copy them... You know.... Kishimoto's way of giving someone godmode...
Well, unfortunately Minato will face 2 elite sharingan users, 1 of them extremely well skilled with the regular sharingan, the other very fast and possessing 1 hit KO skills.


In my honest opinion... This isn't even a fair fight.
There aren't many chars that even stand a chance against Sasu and Ita, It would be much more interesting if it was Sasuke (3 yrs from now) or Itachi without illness at 100% VS minato.

Come on, Itachi was a freakin' ANBU CAPTAIN when he was 13!
Minato was JOUNIN untill he was 20-22 (when he was kakashi's sensei).

If you want to tell me that Minato would wipe out Itachi AND Sasuke so easily (If at all) , then you are sadly mistaking.


IT--

[Csdabest]

And Orochimaru said himself personaly that he wouldn't dare go after Itachi. So what is your point.


But OMG I finally see your point. Sasuke and Itachi are both retarded. So they would Never ever see the Kunai's comming at them and make any attempt to evade the kunais. Are your serious.

Who would throw those 30 tagged kunai? Huh? Minato has never been said to have Kage bushin much less the ability to spam it. Tajuu Kage Bushin is NAruto technique and he can perform it due to his high level of chakra that is not touched by anyone except for Kisame and other Bijuus.

But lets go along with your 30 tagged kunai thrown. This is what would happen.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/06-07/
They would easilly swat those kunais out of the sky with Shuriken. So much for your theory. of tossing Kunais at them. What a joke.

If Minato tried to get close to Sasuke personally to tag him. This is what will happen.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/
Chidori Negashi no seals for the win.

Minato has made his name for himself through out the shinobi world. So it safe to say that Sasuke and Itachi will already have a knowlegble advantage over him. All Minato knows is they are uchiha. And know that he has a techniqu that makes him move soo fast its like a yellow blur.

As for Itachi
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/06/
It can cast genjutsu with a mere point of a finger
So its not my imagination. Actual proven fact.
[hr]
Seeing as Summoning, Rasengan, Death-god, and Hirashin are the only jutsu mentioned. Thats probably his most notible techniques. You have to remember. This 16 years ago(Manga Time). Where No Chidori Variants, no Kirin, No MS jutsu known or revealed, No FRS. Where Rasengan was known as one of sthe strongest Jutsu. At the most I see him having Bigger Rasengan. but the reason bigger rasengan was needed was to compensate for the speed i believe. But even then. I doubt it. I think all the other stuff in his arsenal is just c,b maybe a-rank jutsu. You need ro realize that Minato lived in a time of war where there wasn't much time for trainnin, creating jutsu, and hoaning skills where they had to be used on the battlefield. So i doubt he has many crazy jutsu in his arsenal that are noteworthy. It would probably be like saying OMG BUT SASUKE HAVE Fireball no jutsu or pheonix flower no jutsu as something to be reconed with. Though its a good attacking jutsu. I wouldnt use that to lead my argument

[Marq]

Csdabest, I'm guessing the person who argued about the genjutsu pointing a finger as in why it's a fascination, more along the lines of Minato wouldn't fall for something like that. Although you can point there is no evidence whether not Minato can or cannot.

But at the same time.. I know Minato isn't as retarded as Naruto. :P It's not like he's going to charge in and Itachi would simply cast the genjutsu.

Perhaps you are right, Minato doesn't have that many jutsus. Of course there is a huge difference between Minato and Naruto however. It seems more like Naruto spams the rasengan just to end fights (on written it seems fine, but executing it as naruto has done, makes it look stupid).. while yes Minato has the tag, that doesn't mean he's screwed if that is disabled from his aresnal. He's known to be a fast person just like Itachi..

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/07/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/

While speed may not be the deciding factor, Minato is known for his speed. Although I think Sharingan can only detect movements with people moving with chakra, not natural speed. I could be wrong though, if that was the case, itachi and sasuke would be dodging every technique, but at the same time I guess it isn't bad, even if they do detect the movements, it's also they need to apply actions quickly right?

edit: hmm.. maybe that wasn't the smartest panel to show Minato's speed.

[Csdabest]

Its sadly both. He saw everyone of Lee's natural move's but his body couldn't keep up. And When Sasuke was moving with Chakra Itachi eyes kept up. Im not saying he is slow.Just his made speed factor is with Hirashin and once that out of the picture he most likely has just jounin level speed which im not saying is slow at all.

Thinking is. The Genjutsu was sooo subtle. And noone knew that he could cast it with just pointing his finger. i doubt minato would know until its too late. And by the time he has done it. Sasuke would mostlikely have done away with Minato in the real word. Which is why I say this is a huge mismatch putting Minato against the uchiha brothers who could both probably genjutsu rape.

[Shaunlim]

I can't stress enough on this....just because you can't beat the sharingan doesn't mean you can't go around it........all of you are saying that as long as the sharingan can predict the 4th's movement = his is screwed. All of you are forgetting that if they can't keep up predicting those movement would be kinda useless. From my point of view all the 4th needs to do is somehow get a tag on both Sasuke and Itachi and they are both pretty much screwed. All he has to do is create 2 KB and get them to Shiki Fujin both of them. Although it won't be easy by all means it is not impossible . As for the Kawamiri thing.....no it won't work, kawamiri works but quickly replacing your self with an item e.g wood but since the tag is attached to you, the 4th would be teleporting to you nonetheless.

[Destin82]

I think the fourth would have a pretty easy time with Sasuke, and even Itachi but I can't think of a scenario where he would get around Susanoo. Not enough has been declared about the fourth, but the pedestal he's been placed on even among great ninjas in the Narutoverse, has me assuming he was far beyond his closest competition.

[Csdabest]

I can't stress enough on this....just because you can't beat the sharingan doesn't mean you can't go around it........all of you are saying that as long as the sharingan can predict the 4th's movement = his is screwed. All of you are forgetting that if they can't keep up predicting those movement would be kinda useless. From my point of view all the 4th needs to do is "somehow" get a tag on both Sasuke and Itachi and they are both pretty much screwed. All he has to do is create 2 KB and get them to Shiki Fujin both of them. Although it won't be easy by all means it is not impossible . As for the Kawamiri thing.....no it won't work, kawamiri works but quickly replacing your self with an item e.g wood but since the tag is attached to you, the 4th would be teleporting to you nonetheless.

Thats it somehow. And Somehow is most likely is not going to happen. If the Sharingan can predict the guys movements. And you have two talented sharingan users starring at you. Your not going to make a move w/o being seen by one or the other.

And by the time that Somehow happens. Minato will be taken out. I doubt Sasuke and Itachi are going to be playing hacky sack while Minato is running around like a chicken w/o its head trying to figure out a way to beat this stupid situation he has gotten himself into.

[Shaunlim]

I think you are underestimating how fast this battle would be. Even if they see it, they would still die if they don't do something about it in time. Oh yeah you are right....Minato is just going to around blindly waiting for the Uchiha duo to kill him.......

[The Flash]

@ Cdsabest

Listen all those counter techniques you mentioned takes more than seconds to do. WHile Minato can appear at your death in less than a second.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/242/04-05/

Listen again - I'm not trying to say Minato is actually throwing Kunai's at Sasuke and itachi, But throwing them on the ground that surrounds them. So when they escape, it will only take a "SPLIT - second" to kill them.
[hr]
And sorry. I have the facts of the manga to back me up.. and ofcourse the poll. 15 - 8? ouch.

[ninjabot]

You know...the funny thing about being known as "the best"...is that you're being named the best by peers who have witnessed you and some of your feats. Likewise, they only consider you the best because they are comparing you to everyone else that they know. Madara. Hanzo. Orochimaru. Jiraiya. Tsunade. Kakashi.

These same people, as hinted at by Kishimoto, are surpassed by the next generation. Every generation, ninja are getting faster, stronger, and more cunning. Kakashi states it. You know how many generations has passed since Minato's title was worth a damn? Two. And in those two generations, there was a ninja that can be hailed as the best of that generation. Itachi is the best of his generation. Sasuke is on the road to becoming the best of his generation (and when he does, he will surpass Itachi.)

What does this mean? At the end of the series: Sasuke>Itachi>Minato (Naruto>Sasuke, but we won't count him because he's the main character and it's a given). Keep that in mind before you guys use the "they said he's the best!" excuse.

As to why Minato can't place a tag on Sasuke or Itachi...niether of them are mindless killing machines like the revived Hokage were in the Orochimaru vs. Sarutobi fight. If they are indeed close enough to have tags placed on them, they are close enough to see exactly what movement Minato makes and counter accordingly. Also, how does Minato know for a fact that the Sasuke or Itachi he is tagging is really them? He doesn't if he's Genjutsu'd. He could teleport himself right into a brick wall if Itachi or Sasuke wanted him to. Or even more hilariously: He could throw a kunai at Sasuke who is ten meters away. Sasuke does Chidori Sword and simply aims it straight, and once Minato reappers, he has a 5 meter long lightning blade in his forehead. Remember, he teleports TO the kunai, he doesn't become the kunai. That means countering is as simple as waiting for him to reappear.

If Minato throws a handfull of Hiraishin-kunai at the brothers and they fire a Goukakkyuu at them, they would either burn the rites off of the kunai, or Minato would teleport into the flames, charring himself. Again, Minato's speed is chalked up to Hiraishin. Sure, he's good with shunshin, because Hiraishin is defined as a super version of shunshin, meaning he would need a working knowledge of the basic one before he could create a better one. But Itachi and Sasuke's shunshin are both top-line, and ofcourse, Minato is being compared to the ninja of HIS generation. He's never been compared to someone like Itachi until now.

[The Flash]

You know...the funny thing about being known as "the best"...is that you're being named the best by peers who have witnessed you and some of your feats. Likewise, they only consider you the best because they are comparing you to everyone else that they know. Madara. Hanzo. Orochimaru. Jiraiya. Tsunade. Kakashi.

These same people, as hinted at by Kishimoto, are surpassed by the next generation. Every generation, ninja are getting faster, stronger, and more cunning. Kakashi states it. You know how many generations has passed since Minato's title was worth a damn? Two. And in those two generations, there was a ninja that can be hailed as the best of that generation. Itachi is the best of his generation. Sasuke is on the road to becoming the best of his generation (and when he does, he will surpass Itachi.)

What does this mean? At the end of the series: Sasuke>Itachi>Minato (Naruto>Sasuke, but we won't count him because he's the main character and it's a given). Keep that in mind before you guys use the "they said he's the best!" excuse.

As to why Minato can't place a tag on Sasuke or Itachi...niether of them are mindless killing machines like the revived Hokage were in the Orochimaru vs. Sarutobi fight. If they are indeed close enough to have tags placed on them, they are close enough to see exactly what movement Minato makes and counter accordingly. Also, how does Minato know for a fact that the Sasuke or Itachi he is tagging is really them? He doesn't if he's Genjutsu'd. He could teleport himself right into a brick wall if Itachi or Sasuke wanted him to. Or even more hilariously: He could throw a kunai at Sasuke who is ten meters away. Sasuke does Chidori Sword and simply aims it straight, and once Minato reappers, he has a 5 meter long lightning blade in his forehead. Remember, he teleports TO the kunai, he doesn't become the kunai. That means countering is as simple as waiting for him to reappear.

If Minato throws a handfull of Hiraishin-kunai at the brothers and they fire a Goukakkyuu at them, they would either burn the rites off of the kunai, or Minato would teleport into the flames, charring himself. Again, Minato's speed is chalked up to Hiraishin. Sure, he's good with shunshin, because Hiraishin is defined as a super version of shunshin, meaning he would need a working knowledge of the basic one before he could create a better one. But Itachi and Sasuke's shunshin are both top-line, and ofcourse, Minato is being compared to the ninja of HIS generation. He's never been compared to someone like Itachi until now.

lol sorry did you just say Itachi> Minato?? hahah hahah.

Only someone who has lived before minato's generation and live up to now can judge that.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/

And btw thats PROOOF that Minato is compared to the world to the generations from past and today. And its a good comparision since Jiraiya has lived the generation before Minato.

Plus dont take The next generation will always surpass the previous generation so literally. Even though its true, doesnt mean all of that shinobi's will always surpass them.

Your saying Itachi and sasuke > madara, and Shodaime.
If thats true.. why is madara the top ninja still?.. I doubt someone like sasuke can fight shodaime (who can control all bijuu's like a pet).

Theres only a few rare ninja's that some cant be surpassed yet. Those include: Shodaime, Minato, Madara, the Third.
[hr]
BUT ANYWAYS HERE IS MY CLAIM:

Minato > Sasuke. Result-> Sasuke will be crying to his mommy and daddy;s grave
Minato > Itachi. Result -> Good fight, But Minato will win
Minato vs Uchiha Duo Bro's -> Close fight, but minato will win.

[Destin82]

These same people, as hinted at by Kishimoto, are surpassed by the next generation. Every generation, ninja are getting faster, stronger, and more cunning. Kakashi states it. You know how many generations has passed since Minato's title was worth a damn? Two. And in those two generations, there was a ninja that can be hailed as the best of that generation. Itachi is the best of his generation. Sasuke is on the road to becoming the best of his generation (and when he does, he will surpass Itachi.)

What does this mean? At the end of the series: Sasuke>Itachi>Minato (Naruto>Sasuke, but we won't count him because he's the main character and it's a given). Keep that in mind before you guys use the "they said he's the best!" excuse

So we're not supposed to put any stock in others calling Minato the best as some unwritten rule in the cannon, but it's ok if we take Kakashi stating the next generation always surpasses the previous as indisputable fact.

Let's keep in mind that the apparent premiere antagonist of Naruto is a character that dates back several generations, and if Madara is not the main antagonist, and it's Pein, then that's a character from Minato's generation.

Really, I'm sure there's a great deal of truth in what Kakashi states to Kakuzu, but I doubt it's fact.

I can't even begin to bring Sasuke in the equation since I doubt he's reached his full potential, but as it stands I'd assume he'd be easy fodder for Minato. I don't have any hard evidence for saying that, I just assume if Deidara gave Sasuke a hard time, and Itachi bassically toyed around with him until the conditions for his death were perfect, and the eight tales is handing him pretty well, so it seems likely still has some improving to do.

[ninjabot]

Jiraiya states that Minato has talent that only comes once a decade. And he was right. A decade is only 10 years (Math FTW!!!). Itachi wasn't born the same year as Minato, or even close. Minato was born waaay before Itachi, back when his title was, I repeat, "worth a damn". Once his time passed, another prodigious ninja was born. Itachi. Too bad his potential was stunted by illness.

And no, not all ninja will surpass the previous ninja. But the best of generation 2>the best of generation 1. The best of gen 3>the best of gen 2. And so on. And niether Itachi nor Sasuke have reached their true potential (Sasuke still being young, Itachi still being dead), but yes. Once Sasuke has reached his limit, Sasuke will indeed>Madara.

Claim what you want. Here's the TRUTH.

Sasuke vs. Minato: Minato wins until we know what Sasuke's MS jutsu are.
Itachi vs. Minato: Depends on whether Itachi is still sickly. But if not, Minato is raped.
Itachi AND Sasuke vs. Minato: state-pen level gangrape in favor of the brothers.

Edit:@Destin82...I'm not completely ignoring Minato's title. I'm simply stating that too many people are praised as elite to consider him the best of the elite, especially when we don't know enough about him outside of his title. There are too many "bests" to simply accept his title without comparing him to the other "bests". And I don't mean compare titles. I mean compare FEATS.

[Csdabest]

I wouldn't go as far as Minato being raped but it would be a good fight. against itachi that is. Rape if both.

[Destin82]

We can compare Jutsu, titles, sure any of it.

If we want to compare feats/accomplishments then no doubt, they also slant heavily in Minato's favor. Keep in mind, Itachi lived his life in the shadows of Akatsuki for the greated good of Konoha and will go down as a martyr, where as Minato attained legend status and went down as a martyr for Konoha. Strangely enough though, we know more about what Minato accomplished in his lifetime than Itachi, but there were no flee on sight commands for Itachi, that much I know. All I do know is that Itachi and Madara played a pretty dangerous game to keep each other in check, where as I assume Minato kept Madara in check.

I'm willing to accept Itachi is by far one of the strongest ninjas overall in the Narutoverse, but if he was as strong as you're arguing (ie. the strongest of his generation, and since Sasuke and Naruto haven't matured, the strongest overall) then there's no reason why he would have gone along with Akatsuki. If Itachi had this supposed strength, he could have easily dealt with Madara or Pein (two NINs I honestly see Minato having no trouble beating)

That being said I still can't think of a way around Susanoo though.

[ninjabot]

Makes sense, but I meant feats as far as battle goes, since this isn't a popularity contest (well, technically it is, but not to me...), it's a fighting contest. Rasengan is strong, but not game-breakingly so. Hiraishin is really the only ability we know Minato has that makes us (even the Minato fans) think he stands a chance. Well, that and his title. Take his title away and focus on his battle feets, and he has Hiraishin alone. I can't for the life of me see how any frog summon will help when the weakest member of the fight (Sasuke) can render him immobile or a slave with a simple glance.

Susano'o, Genjutsu, Kirin, greater numbers, shunshin expertise...all of these are on the brothers side. That's just too much. But yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and bow outta here...make my own battle thread where the fight isn't completely onesided, or about Sasuke. See how long it lasts...

[DarkManSharingan32]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/343/02/

Is the same as...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/242/04-05/

... If not better, considering Sasuke is probably just working with his Shunshin.
---

Hands down, we are looking at the three fastest Shinobi proclaimed in the manga, and as such... this fight is bound to be fast-paced showdown of wits...
---

I tend to think that Sasuke and Itachi win this battle... There really isnt very much surprise to Minato's character, besides his speed. And on that point... I will contend that they are all around the same speed, Sans Hiraishin.

Ninjutsu:
Sasuke/Itachi

MS Jutsu Amaterasu, as well as command over at least two elements (Fire being dominant over Minato's supposed Wind Affinity)... Sasuke's plethora of Lightning Based jutsu, and their ability to use high level Substitute jutsu.

Even if they get hit... it can be written, ad infinitum, crow substitution, and snake replacements, or Kage Bunshin used to gain the Uchihas another chance to set up some devistating attacks.

Minato: He's got the Rasengan (who knows how many versions), Kuchiyose (who knows what besides Gama he can summon...)... Shunshin as well, and his fabeled Hiraishin.

Now a minor point... where is the battle being fought? If it's near/around an open area... the Uchiha can use the lack or trees to narrow where Minato can actually summon himself to.

In a forest , there leaves more opportunity for Minato to surprise the Uchiha.... then again, they can just Burn it to the ground.

And with summoning... I think the ability for the Uchiha o controll summons pretty much makes them useless...

But U can forsee a Scroll Summon where Yondaime brings forth tons of Special Kunai immediately... but who knows if that will work.

And finally...
Susanno = pwn
---

Taijutsu/Tools

I feel like the Uchiha, as a clan, excel in this area the most.... especially in the tool area. Swords, triple windmill shurikens, regular shurikens, large shurikens, detachable shurikens... the use of all with Nin-wire....

I find it hard to believe that Sasuke, with his auto-spam summon of Shurikens can somehow not find a way to stop kunai being thrown at him...

And into that his use of the Lightning element, and he can create a virtual force-field with his nin-wire.

We dont have much from Minato in this area... but me must have some talent, but I doubt he was trained specifically in the realm of tools... especially given that Jiraiya is his sensei.
---

Genjutsu:

If someone can explain to me how Yondaime gets through this fight without eye-contact with the Uchiha... please do tell.

The ability to surround with clones/snakes leaves Yondaime undoubtedly falling underneath one genjutsu.... and if it happens to be Tsukiyomi. A well placed kunai goes right through his brain with little effort.
---


The Uchiha Win from what we know from the manga...
But if Kishi is doing the writing, you can expect some amazing twists and surprises from Minato...

Sadly... that will never be, and so...

Uchiha wins.
Genjutsu-ality.

[Csdabest]

I seriously dont see how you could have ever said you see Madara and Pein getting beat by Minato EASILY. From what we seen. Minato wont even touch Madara. At best he'll pull it to a death god technique making it a tie.But it seems if someone has strong chakra and a strong will they can resist it.

Spacetime
Madara
Taijutsu
Can't be touched it seems as kick punches and Rasengan goes through him
Weapons
Usless. He stopped a slice from The Head cleaver with one arm.

Madara would rape Minato. With a Kunai

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

As of the little will know about Minato right now, i dont see Minato winning this fight. The most Minato can do is use his death-god seal to kill both Itachi and Sasuke, which will also result in his own death. I think the fight will end with all three of them died base on the little will know about Minato right now.

[Baron Hugenstein]

@ Cdsabest

Listen all those counter techniques you mentioned takes more than seconds to do. WHile Minato can appear at your death in less than a second.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/242/04-05/

Listen again - I'm not trying to say Minato is actually throwing Kunai's at Sasuke and itachi, But throwing them on the ground that surrounds them. So when they escape, it will only take a "SPLIT - second" to kill them.
<hr noshade size="1">
And sorry. I have the facts of the manga to back me up.. and ofcourse the poll. 15 - 8? ouch.

You are forgetting one thing, The Flash.
For the Hirashin to work, Chakra is needed. And That Chakra can be seen by the Sharingan.

We have seen how far the Sharingan can see in Deidara's battle with Sasuke. The eye could see the cellular bombs, which are much much small than a kunai or a tattoo.

Sure, it takes less than a second for the 4th to move using Hirashin, but it isn't like Itachi or Sasuke would be standing still all the time. We have seen Itachi jutsu and reaction speed; which couldn't be spotted by the (Kakashi's)sharingan. We also saw Sasuke's speed, which by deidara's words is fast. And I believe Deidara.
And at the speed of Hirashin, Minato won't be able to see any counterattacks.

[Shaunlim]

You are forgetting one thing, The Flash.
For the Hirashin to work, Chakra is needed. And That Chakra can be seen by the Sharingan.

We have seen how far the Sharingan can see in Deidara's battle with Sasuke. The eye could see the cellular bombs, which are much much small than a kunai or a tattoo.

Sure, it takes less than a second for the 4th to move using Hirashin, but it isn't like Itachi or Sasuke would be standing still all the time. We have seen Itachi jutsu and reaction speed; which couldn't be spotted by the (Kakashi's)sharingan. We also saw Sasuke's speed, which by deidara's words is fast. And I believe Deidara.
And at the speed of Hirashin, Minato won't be able to see any counterattacks.
Every single jutsu uses chakra. If by seeing chakra you get to defeat the jutsu then by all means the Uchiha would have conquer the whole ninja world already. No one said that those kunai would not be seen just that they would not have enough time to react to it.

And the 4th would not be only using one jutsu for the whole fight. Kakashi spotted Itachi's jutsu and reaction speed. Deidara isn't a fast character so it's like someone who's walking says that the other person with a bicycle is fast. You misunderstood how Hiraishin works. It's not a teleportation jutsu as Shino as explained about this before. It's a time/space ninjutsu meaning you are not moving that fast just disappearing from one spot and reappearing at the next meaning seeing counterattacks are not relevant as he could teleport behind them. I mean he did advise Kakashi the same thing when Kakashi first used the chidori so it would be dumb of him to make the same mistake.

[Baron Hugenstein]

Every single jutsu uses chakra. If by seeing chakra you get to defeat the jutsu then by all means the Uchiha would have conquer the whole ninja world already. No one said that those kunai would not be seen just that they would not have enough time to react to it.

And the 4th would not be only using one jutsu for the whole fight. Kakashi spotted Itachi's jutsu and reaction speed. Deidara isn't a fast character so it's like someone who's walking says that the other person with a bicycle is fast. You misunderstood how Hiraishin works. It's not a teleportation jutsu as Shino as explained about this before. It's a time/space ninjutsu meaning you are not moving that fast just disappearing from one spot and reappearing at the next meaning seeing counterattacks are not relevant as he could teleport behind them. I mean he did advise Kakashi the same thing when Kakashi first used the chidori so it would be dumb of him to make the same mistake.

Yes, but correct if i am wrong, Hirashin is a movement jutsu not a hit-ko jutsu. The jutsu itself needs tags or kunai for the person to move/teleport from A to B.
These Kunai/tags use Chakra. The Sharingan sees that chakra and the Uchiha fighting Minato will know where he might possibly go. And the Uchiha bros are brilliant strategists, they will form a plan in no time so that Minato can't get to them. And i don't think they need to be hit just to notice the chakra. So Hirashin against the Bro might give the 4th a slight chance.
Even if Minato hits Itachi, Itachi's use of KB is very fast, and he can self explode the KB thus injuring the 4th. Sasuke has his Chidori Nagashi, which is practically a shield that blocks and fries close enemies.

Plus, who knows if Minato can react to Uchiha genjutsus. Probably can't:
Because they can spam Genjutsu like Naruto can spam KBs.
True that a hokage must be able to cancel a genjutsu but If Itachi found a way to give people his powers, it isn't farfetched that he might be able to create a Genjutsu within another, or even a Genjutsu within another within another; It is possible.

[bigtymer32]

its so hard to pick a winner because minato has this legend status .going off what we know.2 on 1 is gonna be hard especially with 2 jounin or higher ninja.it would be a epic battle. now everyone is saying the bros would be able to see the kunai when minato does Hirashin .is hard to debate.if were going off current state.


the reason why they couldn't detect it is because we dont know how fast minato's movement is normally.we dont know what element's or how many minato can use.also we don't know how much chakra minato has.itachi is going blind so if minato gets a split second its over for itachi .yes itachi is a kage level but current state. like minato we dont see too much of itachi's ability.(ya we do see alot in his fight against sasuke but he's pretty much dieing).itachi his another one of those characters we put on a greats level because everytime we see him hes got a new skill and looks like he's not cracking a sweat.now itachi(not dieing) vs mianto would be of the best fights.


now before i say anything about sasuke i just want to say hes my fav character so theres no sasuke hating here . having seen sasukes fights hes good,very skilled but not seeing the battles hes been in he's had trouble with everyone hes fought. so he still alot to work on and since minato is considered to be on a god level .sasuke gets taken out by minato.

the reason they could see is because there two of the greatest uchihas in there generations.so there sharingans are god like in this series.they have ms and minato would have to try evade 2 pairs of sharingan eyes.pretty much only only madara,and pein (the reason i say him is because theres alot we dont know about the rinnegan and him) stand a chance in a 2 on 1.plus the bros always have plans going on in there head so after minato attacks they would of already had aplan to defeat him.


heres the real way to decide who wins the fight.you can get all the facts you want but it comes down to one thing........

which do you believe in more.

the legend that is minato the yellow flash vs the great clan of ninja known as uchiha with sharingan.


everyone has there own opinion which make treads like this fun to see what other will put and reason why they feel that way.

as much as i love the uchihas.i'm a minato fan as well so the legend of the yellow flash makes minato win IMO because kishimoto has made minato the type of hero that always finds a way to save the day.

[Shaunlim]

Yes, but correct if i am wrong, Hirashin is a movement jutsu not a hit-ko jutsu. The jutsu itself needs tags or kunai for the person to move/teleport from A to B.
These Kunai/tags use Chakra. The Sharingan sees that chakra and the Uchiha fighting Minato will know where he might possibly go. And the Uchiha bros are brilliant strategists, they will form a plan in no time so that Minato can't get to them. And i don't think they need to be hit just to notice the chakra. So Hirashin against the Bro might give the 4th a slight chance.
Even if Minato hits Itachi, Itachi's use of KB is very fast, and he can self explode the KB thus injuring the 4th. Sasuke has his Chidori Nagashi, which is practically a shield that blocks and fries close enemies.

Plus, who knows if Minato can react to Uchiha genjutsus. Probably can't:
Because they can spam Genjutsu like Naruto can spam KBs.
True that a hokage must be able to cancel a genjutsu but If Itachi found a way to give people his powers, it isn't farfetched that he might be able to create a Genjutsu within another, or even a Genjutsu within another within another; It is possible.
Well actually if it was just about knowing where the 4th would go then simply seeing the kunai is enough, no need for seeing the chakra thing. Minato is not called a genius for nothing, I'm sure he would come up with something as well. True Itachi's usage of the KB is fast and can self explode but doing so would just injure him as well. Chidori Nagashi would actually take some time to activate (not really sure about this part but definitely more than a few seconds) so the 4th could have cut Sasuke's throat open before Sasuke could use it.
The genjutsu part is possible but if Minato is moving around like this, I doubt that he would be easily caught in a genjutsu http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/10/ and this is not Hiraishin as mentioned by Rin

[piscesking]

Man 1 Rasengan at there face the end of them, he also have 1 hit kill jutsu :).......tag u dead.........;)

[e-dog]

Ill Itachi - Kage lvl

Healthy Itachi - Kage+ lvl

Sasuke - Jounin

Sasuke + MS - Jounin+ Probably

Minato- Kage lvl / Maybe Kage+ since we don't know much about him


Itachi's special achievements:
*Graduated Ninja Academy at the age of 7 in 1 year.
*Mastered the Sharingan at the age of 8.
*Passing the Chuunin Exam at the age of 10.
*Becoming ANBU CAPTAIN (you know... Those epic pwnage dudes...) at the age of 13.
*Gained the Mangekyou Sharingan at the age of 13.
*Being trained by the legendary Uchiha Madara for who knows how long.
*Slaughtering 1 of the strongest clans in Naruverse OVERNIGHT.

Other achievements:
*Itachi made KAKASHI (A highly skilled Jounin who also possesses the sharingan who also is a very likely Hokage Candidate) harmless well within 10 SECONDS.



Sasuke's special achievements:
.... help please?... I'm not exactly a Sasuke fan so I don't really know much about him.

Only thing I can think of is his training with Orochimaru and him pwning orochimaru...

However, we do know sasuke is extremely skilled with Katon element jutsu's, He now posesses the MS and his NORMAL sharingan is also extremely powerful which was demonstrated when he broke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi (If Itachi didn't let him that is).
Sasuke is a genius who has the potential to surpass Shodaime, Madara, Itachi and Minato.
Sasuke is still not near itachi's level when Itachi was at the same age but his skills are really improving. (cant believe I am saying this... For the record I really really dislike Sasuke... You could even call me a Sasuke Hater)



Minato's special achievements:
*Graduated Ninja Academy at the age of 10.
*Being trained by Jiraiya at his prime.
*Improving his skills greatly in the Third Great Ninja War, So much that a flee-on-sight order was given to enemy ninja during the Third Ninja War.
*Becoming Hokage at the age of 20-22 (While not in his prime)

Not much is known about Minato so this is as much as I know.


Now just compare him and Itachi (ONLY these 2) and you'll soon see that they are both extremely powerful (With Itachi taking the lead because we don't know much about Minato or because Itachi is simply the superior nin).
Anyone who still would say Minato would take out Itachi (Let alone Itachi AND sasuke) so surely, is wrong.
Just by comparing Itachi and Minato, we discover that they are quite equal (Itachi's PROVEN abilities/achievements and Minato's legendary Status + Achievements) and that Itachi even has the lead in some factors.

I'd say Itachi and Sasuke would beat Minato's ass (Not easily or unharmed ofc. Minato is a fucking legend and he was 1 of the strongest shinobi in konoha's history and he wasn't even in his prime, I just don't see Sasuke and Itachi beating Minato unharmed).
Best case scenario:
Itachi and sasuke only sustain minor injuries that can be healed.
Worst case scenario:
Itachi and/or Sasuke lose his/their life/lives.


IT--

[Shaunlim]

Ill Itachi - Kage lvl

Healthy Itachi - Kage+ lvl

Sasuke - Jounin

Sasuke + MS - Jounin+ Probably

Minato- Kage lvl / Maybe Kage+ since we don't know much about him


Itachi's special achievements:
*Graduated Ninja Academy at the age of 7 in 1 year.
*Mastered the Sharingan at the age of 8.
*Passing the Chuunin Exam at the age of 10.
*Becoming ANBU CAPTAIN (you know... Those epic pwnage dudes...) at the age of 13.
*Gained the Mangekyou Sharingan at the age of 13.
*Being trained by the legendary Uchiha Madara for who knows how long.
*Slaughtering 1 of the strongest clans in Naruverse OVERNIGHT.

Other achievements:
*Itachi made KAKASHI (A highly skilled Jounin who also possesses the sharingan who also is a very likely Hokage Candidate) harmless well within 10 SECONDS.



Sasuke's special achievements:
.... help please?... I'm not exactly a Sasuke fan so I don't really know much about him.

Only thing I can think of is his training with Orochimaru and him pwning orochimaru...

However, we do know sasuke is extremely skilled with Katon element jutsu's, He now posesses the MS and his NORMAL sharingan is also extremely powerful which was demonstrated when he broke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi (If Itachi didn't let him that is).
Sasuke is a genius who has the potential to surpass Shodaime, Madara, Itachi and Minato.
Sasuke is still not near itachi's level when Itachi was at the same age but his skills are really improving. (cant believe I am saying this... For the record I really really dislike Sasuke... You could even call me a Sasuke Hater)



Minato's special achievements:
*Graduated Ninja Academy at the age of 10.
*Being trained by Jiraiya at his prime.
*Improving his skills greatly in the Third Great Ninja War, So much that a flee-on-sight order was given to enemy ninja during the Third Ninja War.
*Becoming Hokage at the age of 20-22 (While not in his prime)

Not much is known about Minato so this is as much as I know.


Now just compare him and Itachi (ONLY these 2) and you'll soon see that they are both extremely powerful (With Itachi taking the lead because we don't know much about Minato or because Itachi is simply the superior nin).
Anyone who still would say Minato would take out Itachi (Let alone Itachi AND sasuke) so surely, is wrong.
Just by comparing Itachi and Minato, we discover that they are quite equal (Itachi's PROVEN abilities/achievements and Minato's legendary Status + Achievements) and that Itachi even has the lead in some factors.

I'd say Itachi and Sasuke would beat Minato's ass (Not easily or unharmed ofc. Minato is a fucking legend and he was 1 of the strongest shinobi in konoha's history and he wasn't even in his prime, I just don't see Sasuke and Itachi beating Minato unharmed).
Best case scenario:
Itachi and sasuke only sustain minor injuries that can be healed.
Worst case scenario:
Itachi and/or Sasuke lose his/their life/lives.


IT--
Achievements doesn't really mean anything during a fight. I mean Naruto who's still a genin and failed to pass the ninja qualification exams for 2 times was able to kill Kakazu(yes even if Kakashi didn't go in for the kill Kakazu would have eventually died) which fought the shodaime and survived.....and about Itachi disarming Kakashi and made him harmless in 10seconds. Before the time-skip Kakashi was clearly not kage level just high jounin. Post time-skip is another story, he got MS and improved his skills thus making him near kage level.

[Csdabest]

Yeah...Ill agree on you for the most basic of grading

Itachi(Ill)-Kage
Itachi(healthy)-Kage+
Sasuke(CS)-Higher Jounin/S-class
Sasuke(MS)-Higher Tier S-class
Minato-Kage+

Itachi Techniques:.
Sharingan
Mangekyo Sharingan
Amaterasu
Tsukuyomi
Susano'o
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Clone Explosion
Genjutsu
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Immortal Fire Technique
Fire Release: Mythical Firebird Technique
Ephemeral
Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change
Water Release: Water Fang Bullet

Sasuke Techniques
FireballJutsu
Sharingan
Mangekyo Sharingan
Amaterasu
Chidori
Chidori Current
Chidori Senbon
Chidori Blade (Unnamed)
Chidori Kusanagi
Cursed Seal of Heaven (Removed)
Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change
Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Immortal Fire Technique
Flapping Chidori (Unusable)
Genjutsu
Hidden Shadow Snake Hands
Kirin
Leaf Shadow Dance
Lion Combo
Orochimaru's Oral Rebirth Technique (Unnamed) {Unusable}
Peregrine Falcon Drop (Anime only)
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Sharingan Windmill Triple Blade
Summoning Technique (Snakes)
Susano'o
Advanced Shunshin
Tsukuyomi


Minato Techniques
Flying Thunder God Technique
Rasengan
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Summoning Technique (Toads, Gamabunta)
Shunshin


Abilities and technique aloan the have enough to overwhelm Minato.. I justn dont see how he can pull it off.
[hr]
Also. If the Senju clan wasn't around to match Uchiha. Most likely the Uchiha clan would have taken over the Shinobi world. The way the story of Konoha beginning were made out. Senju was the only clan a match for Uchiha most likely because of water and earth style jutsu and backed with several bijuu's. As Uchiha was the only clan able to fight Senju.

[Kekkai-Shin]

There is no possible way to answer this question reliably without knowing more about Minato. We cannot assume the jutsus we know of were his top jutsus. Until we know more about Minato's fighting style, it would just be his Hirashin vs Sasuke and Itachi. This is about a battle between characters, not if Sasuke and Itachi can beat Hirashin (truth be told we don't even know everything behind Hirashin).


I seriously dont see how you could have ever said you see Madara and Pein getting beat by Minato EASILY. From what we seen. Minato wont even touch Madara. At best he'll pull it to a death god technique making it a tie.But it seems if someone has strong chakra and a strong will they can resist it.

Spacetime
Madara
Taijutsu
Can't be touched it seems as kick punches and Rasengan goes through him
Weapons
Usless. He stopped a slice from The Head cleaver with one arm.

Madara would rape Minato. With a Kunai

Until we know what Madara was doing when the physical attacks went through him, we cannot assume no taijutsu can work on him. Seeing as Amaterasu did hit him and Deidara was able to strangle him (comically) with his legs, I'm saying he can get hit.

Your weapons analysis seems very flawed. Just because he blocked Suigetsu doesn't mean weapons do not work on him.

[Eddy01741]

Um, now that this is getting to unneccesary posts, i'll state my opinion simply:

Minato>=Itachi>Sasuke.

Minato is probably higher than normal kage level (remember, other kage's arn't quite as strong as Hokage's, Orochimaru killed the kazekage with almost no trouble). Itachi is definitely at kage level (heck, kisame with his rediculous chakra reserves, powerful ninjutsu and taijutsu is also probably at kage level). Sasuke is at jounin level. So basically, at best, teh scenario works out to a high kage level ninja vs. a normal kage level ninja and jounin level ninja, so the uchihas will win.

[Kekkai-Shin]

Um, now that this is getting to unneccesary posts, i'll state my opinion simply:

Minato>=Itachi>Sasuke.

Minato is probably higher than normal kage level (remember, other kage's arn't quite as strong as Hokage's, Orochimaru killed the kazekage with almost no trouble). Itachi is definitely at kage level (heck, kisame with his rediculous chakra reserves, powerful ninjutsu and taijutsu is also probably at kage level). Sasuke is at jounin level. So basically, at best, teh scenario works out to a high kage level ninja vs. a normal kage level ninja and jounin level ninja, so the uchihas will win.

Well, we cannot just say a person will win because he is stronger or whatever. Remember, in Naruto it's not "since A > B and B > C, then A > C." You have to factor in a lot of things, because in Naruto it can be A > B, B > C, and C > A. This is why we need to know everything about a person's fighting to give a reliable analysis of this fight.

[Csdabest]

There is no possible way to answer this question reliably without knowing more about Minato. We cannot assume the jutsus we know of were his top jutsus. Until we know more about Minato's fighting style, it would just be his Hirashin vs Sasuke and Itachi. This is about a battle between characters, not if Sasuke and Itachi can beat Hirashin (truth be told we don't even know everything behind Hirashin).



Until we know what Madara was doing when the physical attacks went through him, we cannot assume no taijutsu can work on him. Seeing as Amaterasu did hit him and Deidara was able to strangle him (comically) with his legs, I'm saying he can get hit.

Your weapons analysis seems very flawed. Just because he blocked Suigetsu doesn't mean weapons do not work on him.


SEEK AND DESTROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/p
But yeah i know what you mean by Minato but Madara. I think already figured out how his attacks are done.

He can temporarily phase through attacks but attacks with constant damage such as Fire based(amaterasu) Swarm(Shino Bugs) he can't fully avoid.

he passed through the Kusanagi swipe and Naruto Rasengan. And seeing that his spacetime jutsu travel surpasses Minato Hirashin. Then he has one up on him. He actually seems he can travel anywhere he wants or where he sees and is unrestricted. Unlike Minato. But most likely its restricted to where he knows or places he been or seen.

Seeing as he blocked Suigetsu sword swipe with ease. Its one of the legendary swords of the mist specifically ment for dismembering limbs. We see how hard Suigetsu strikes see when he tried to hit the 8-tails. So its safe to assume his blows are no joke. So if that didnt work. It safe to assume as well conventional weapons dont work on him. Seeing as he avoided two powerful weapons. Chidori Kusanagi and headcleaver.

[Kekkai-Shin]

SEEK AND DESTROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/p
But yeah i know what you mean by Minato but Madara. I think already figured out how his attacks are done.

He can temporarily phase through attacks but attacks with constant damage such as Fire based(amaterasu) Swarm(Shino Bugs) he can't fully avoid.

he passed through the Kusanagi swipe and Naruto Rasengan. And seeing that his spacetime jutsu travel surpasses Minato Hirashin. Then he has one up on him. He actually seems he can travel anywhere he wants or where he sees and is unrestricted. Unlike Minato. But most likely its restricted to where he knows or places he been or seen.

Seeing as he blocked Suigetsu sword swipe with ease. Its one of the legendary swords of the mist specifically ment for dismembering limbs. We see how hard Suigetsu strikes see when he tried to hit the 8-tails. So its safe to assume his blows are no joke. So if that didnt work. It safe to assume as well conventional weapons dont work on him. Seeing as he avoided two powerful weapons. Chidori Kusanagi and headcleaver.

I'm not saying Madara's space-time thing doesn't one-up Minato's, but this isn't a battle decided by space-time jutsu. Madara's not gonna win just by dodging all the time and if Madara has trouble dodging ninjutsu techniques like fire, then Minato can probably give him some elemental trouble.

Kusanagi and Zabuza's sword are strong weapons but they are only as strong as the person using them. He dodged Kusanagi altogether. With Suigetsu, it was probably the armor Madara was wearing that made it easy to block.

I'm actually starting to think Zabuza's sword and Suigetsu's base strength aren't all that because of the way Hachibi was cutting through the sword like a knife through butter. Yea, Hachibi used his element to help, but that still doesn't say much for Suigetsu if anyone can just use the lightning element and cut his sword to pieces.

[carlhanz]

well i think many people are talking about how strong the uchiha bros are, but you must remember that they can't be compared with minato, could they have a chance at wining at their full power? don't think so, we must look that minato grew up with jiraiya as his teacher so he must know all the techniques jiraiya knew, also he grew up in a time of war and fought constantly, in comparison to itachi that was just a kid when this was happening, and also he was chosen over orochimaru not only because orichimaru was bad but also because of his power, so we can say that he's more strong than a sannin, and let me remind you http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/08/ where kisame sais the kind of level jiraiya is at.
to sum up i would say minato would win, by the way I didn't mention sasuke because let's face it, if itachi had fought seriusly we wouldn't have sasuke alive.

[Csdabest]

I'm not saying Madara's space-time thing doesn't one-up Minato's, but this isn't a battle decided by space-time jutsu. Madara's not gonna win just by dodging all the time and if Madara has trouble dodging ninjutsu techniques like fire, then Minato can probably give him some elemental trouble.

Kusanagi and Zabuza's sword are strong weapons but they are only as strong as the person using them. He dodged Kusanagi altogether. With Suigetsu, it was probably the armor Madara was wearing that made it easy to block.

I'm actually starting to think Zabuza's sword and Suigetsu's base strength aren't all that because of the way Hachibi was cutting through the sword like a knife through butter. Yea, Hachibi used his element to help, but that still doesn't say much for Suigetsu if anyone can just use the lightning element and cut his sword to pieces.


Well we dont know if Minato has a element really. Well he might since was trying to put his in rasengan. Thing is it most likely has to be constent. Like w/ Amaterasu it stays burning. Maybe like a flamethorwer jutsu would work. But its clear only justsu that stay constent will work i believe. Its not just mere fire.

Also Madara wasnt wearing any armor on his wrist to block it.as you can see when he attempted.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/13/

And lets see how hard Suigetsu Hits....
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/06/

As you Can see his blows are not soft as it was able to uplift the ground beneathe the 8-tails.

Its a legendary sword it just doesnt have any chakra properties. And Iguess its weak against chakra flow. And Suigetsu admitted himself he is weak against lightning element. Which convinces me on my point that Suigetu is kept in check by Sasuke and see Sasuke as his superior cuz if Raiton.

[bigtymer32]

also people remember its a fight you can have all the skills and achievements in the world but all you need is an opening or mistake to win especially in the ninja world.its even worse in a 2 on 1 as long as minato doesn't make a mistakes i think its his fight.it also goes against him any mistake or opening he gives itachi will take him out like nothing.

since theres so much mystery around minato the biggest question i personal think is how fast is he without Hirashin.all we can do on that is guess is he the yellow flash because hes the fastest ninja around or is it mainly becasue of Hirashin.

if its because of Hirashin(which i think is not the only reason)then he is in big trouble.

if hes naturally faster than both bros then it will turn into one on one fight quick.minato would take out sasuke with the quickest.

why because well all know if a sharingan user isn't as fast or faster than the person there copying they can't keep up with there movements.sasuke would get taken out easy just for the fact that his eyes can't keep up. then it turns on on one so then minato can be focused on one high level fighter.

now if minato is not naturally faster hes down. genjutsu masters like the bros make it hard for minato to find an opening and leaves the bros with a world of options of how to defeat there opponent.

[ninjabot]

About the elemental affinity of Minato. He does have one, but that doesn't mean he has focused on mastering it. Every ninja in the series has a natural alighnment that they're born with. Even Lee. It's just some don't/can't learn to manipulate said element. Neji doesn't use an element because he's a taijutsu specialist. Lee doesn't because he can't manipulate his chakra.

Actually, he may not have been able to alter the Rasengan's nature based solely on the fact that his natural alignment was one that doesn't work well with Rasengan. Lighting element doesn't work well with Rasengan, because Kakashi attempted to combine lighting with Rasengan and that was how Raikiri was born. It was a stronger version of Chidori, sure. But it lost the traits that make Rasengan a Rasengan. So he could have something like Earth, which most definatley wouldn't bode well when mixed with a Rasengan.

Staying on topic though, someone mentioned throwing Kunai all over the ground as traps inorder to go where he wanted to, when he wanted to. My question is, who would sit in the middle of all of these kunai when they know what Minato's ability does? Or even better, if the battlefield is being burned by Amaterasu, I don't see Minato risking something like that.

Also, something I noticed about Hiraishin is that it's basically a reverse Kuchiyose. Summoning costs a different amount of chakra depending on the size of the thing summoned. You know just how much chakra it would take for him to summon a human sized object multiple times? Not nearly as much as Gamabunta, but enough that it would add up. Especially since we've no idea how much chakra Minato has.

[Raizen]

I just thought of something.

Minato can start the battle of by using a KB. then it will be 2 vs 2. Now he uses his speed and powers to split the two brothers. This strategy does not require minato to use the seal on the uchihas but rather just have the seals within himself. As each of the clone battle their respective opponent, they teleport at given times and join the other minato, making it 2 on 1, leaving the uchihas puzzled and outmatched. HE keeps doing that. After the 2 minatos attack one of the uchihas for a while he teleports back to his original opponent. They keep doing this back and forth. It gives them a sense of surprise and the ability to move out of danger. Just about anyone will be left defenseless with this strategy. Eventually Minato will beat them both
[hr]
Also you have to remember, the reputation of the uchiha is similar to the name "Yellow Flash", but only the yellow flash has given his enemies such fear that they are given a run-on-flight-order. A whole village fear him, and there are definitely some jonins or higher in the village, yet they all got orders to flee on sight

[Shaunlim]

Actually, he may not have been able to alter the Rasengan's nature based solely on the fact that his natural alignment was one that doesn't work well with Rasengan. Lighting element doesn't work well with Rasengan, because Kakashi attempted to combine lighting with Rasengan and that was how Raikiri was born. It was a stronger version of Chidori, sure. But it lost the traits that make Rasengan a Rasengan. So he could have something like Earth, which most definatley wouldn't bode well when mixed with a Rasengan.
Actually every type of element would work with the rasengan as rasengan itself is just advance spatial manipulation. The reason chidori was made was because Kakashi couldn't insert his own nature manipulation into his rasengan and Kakashi's chidori was renamed as raikiri simply because he managed to cut through a lightning and is stronger than chidori. Kakashi said so himself during Naruto's training

[Raizen]

Xcuse me?
Ever heard of KAWARIMI??? 1 of the basic Ninja techniques.
I'm sure teleporting that much will drain minato's chakra real fast. Especially when he created 100 KB's (If he is even able to with his chakra).
Kawarimi is stated to take a lot of chakra. Sasuke was only able to use one in the itachi fight and he was tired. Tis was stated.

As for Hiraishin, during the great ninja war, minato used it over and over again. ONe againsts the earth nin at the begining, one to save kakashi, omany to wipe the ninjas that had kakashi cornered, and many more to wipe out an army. Oh yeah, he doesn't have a lot of chakra. Besides, most likely he has learnt senjutsu, meaning his chakra is even greater than the uchihas combined x 10



Minato isn't god, Sasuke and Itachi won't fall for something as simple as that.
Ever heard of the sharingan? You know... it's a little thing that can predict your movements, copy them, see right through your techniques, copy them... You know.... Kishimoto's way of giving someone godmode...
Well, unfortunately Minato will face 2 elite sharingan users, 1 of them extremely well skilled with the regular sharingan, the other very fast and possessing 1 hit KO skills.

So an S-ranked ninjutsu that has been revered by every single ninja is a simple trick? Wow, u need a serious reality check. Not only that he has the skills to repeatedly use these S-class attacks one after another while many ninja like oro could only use at most 1 S-class attack (ressurection).

Minato has never been stated as God, but from stories and data, he might as well be


And Orochimaru said himself personaly that he wouldn't dare go after Itachi. So what is your point.
Oro stated that itachi was strong, but he did go after itachi, twice. Obviously he does not fear itachi since he repeatedly tried to steal itachi's body. UR wrong



But OMG I finally see your point. Sasuke and Itachi are both retarded. So they would Never ever see the Kunai's comming at them and make any attempt to evade the kunais. Are your serious.

Who would throw those 30 tagged kunai? Huh? Minato has never been said to have Kage bushin much less the ability to spam it. Tajuu Kage Bushin is NAruto technique and he can perform it due to his high level of chakra that is not touched by anyone except for Kisame and other Bijuus.
As stated above, if Hiraishin, an S-class attack is so easy to dodge, then how did he take down an army in a flash? Stop downgrading minato just to make your uchihas look good

He only need a few KB, besides his chakra has proven to be extremely large, more so then perhaps itachi and sasuke combined, and that is not even including his potential ability of senjutsu. In the great ninja war, he had allies throw the kunai, and he teleported to each of them in a flash taking out a whole army b4 w/o wasting a single movement. So he teleported over 50 times b4 the kunais reached his opponents and took them out. So yeah OF COURSE the uchihas can dodge it. They can probably beat just anyone w/ just their tongue :notrust


But lets go along with your 30 tagged kunai thrown. This is what would happen.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/06-07/
They would easilly swat those kunais out of the sky with Shuriken. So much for your theory. of tossing Kunais at them. What a joke.
Minato is too smart to just spam his attacks. He would move and attack at the perfect movement, like he did against the rock nin. He perfectly placed the seal w/o the nin even noticing. So no, he won't throw a bunch of his kunais at point blank

[/QUOTE]If Minato tried to get close to Sasuke personally to tag him. This is what will happen.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/
Chidori Negashi no seals for the win.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Sasuke can react and use handseal, and use the jutsu so quick that he can counter an instant attack.:notrust If the Chidori nagashi is already in use, he wouldn't attack, or he could use rasengan to blow him up w/o using his hand

As for the rest of your post, I am too busy to respond. Besides, it is pure denial

[ninjabot]

Sasuke took out an entire army without any S-rank jutsu...so using Minato's "beat an army by himself" feat only closes the gap between he and Sasuke. Not something you wanna do in a debate. And Kawarimi doesn't take a lot of chakra. Orochimaru's super-Kawarimi takes alot of chakra though. Sasuke needs only to use the plain old "log and smoke" Kawarimi, as it's only a D rank jutsu, meaning it's uber easy and takes practically no chakra cost.

Speaking of chakra cost, Minato actually hasn't been proved to have a lot of chakra. He summoned Gamabunta, which takes alot...but Sasuke Can Summon Manda, who is larger than Gamabunta. And Itachi, even in his sickly form can perform 4 MS jutsu.

As for Sasuke using handseals that fast...maybe not. But Itachi definately can. He made a KB in the middle of he and Sasuke's shuriken duel that Sasuke couldn't even catch with the series' strongest Sharingan.

[Shaunlim]

Kawarimi is stated to take a lot of chakra. Sasuke was only able to use one in the itachi fight and he was tired. Tis was stated.

Well actually Raizen Kawamiri doesn't take a ton of chakra. It's a basic ninjutsu that I don't think really requires a lot. What Sasuke actually used in that Itachi fight was Oro's oro rebirth thing which can be classified as an advance type of kawamiri I guess. Anyhow as I have stated, if the tag is on the original it is obvious kawamiri won't do anything.

@ninjabot: I have been thinking about that momment when Sasuke summoned Manda. It was said that Sasuke was already out of chakra. So it is kinda senseless to think he actually summoned it in a normal method. As shown by Suigetsu, he could have summoned Manda with a scroll which might not have taken the same amount of chakra.

[ninjabot]

No...it was assumed by Deidara (someone who can't see chakra) that Sasuke was out of chakra. Likewise, when Sasuke ran out of chakra against Itachi, Orochimaru was no longer contained. Oro even says he was able to escape because Sasuke was out of chakra.

That's undisputable proof that he wasn't out of chakra against Deidara, or else Orochimaru would've escaped his body right then and there. Once COULD argue that he didn't jump out because he didn't want to get s'ploded. But he would've went boom even if he did stay in Sasuke's body, so the only logical explination would be because he simply wasn't out of chakra.

[Csdabest]

Kawarimi is stated to take a lot of chakra. Sasuke was only able to use one in the itachi fight and he was tired. Tis was stated.

As for Hiraishin, during the great ninja war, minato used it over and over again. ONe againsts the earth nin at the begining, one to save kakashi, omany to wipe the ninjas that had kakashi cornered, and many more to wipe out an army. Oh yeah, he doesn't have a lot of chakra. Besides, most likely he has learnt senjutsu, meaning his chakra is even greater than the uchihas combined x 10



So an S-ranked ninjutsu that has been revered by every single ninja is a simple trick? Wow, u need a serious reality check. Not only that he has the skills to repeatedly use these S-class attacks one after another while many ninja like oro could only use at most 1 S-class attack (ressurection).

Minato has never been stated as God, but from stories and data, he might as well be


Oro stated that itachi was strong, but he did go after itachi, twice. Obviously he does not fear itachi since he repeatedly tried to steal itachi's body. UR wrong



As stated above, if Hiraishin, an S-class attack is so easy to dodge, then how did he take down an army in a flash? Stop downgrading minato just to make your uchihas look good

He only need a few KB, besides his chakra has proven to be extremely large, more so then perhaps itachi and sasuke combined, and that is not even including his potential ability of senjutsu. In the great ninja war, he had allies throw the kunai, and he teleported to each of them in a flash taking out a whole army b4 w/o wasting a single movement. So he teleported over 50 times b4 the kunais reached his opponents and took them out. So yeah OF COURSE the uchihas can dodge it. They can probably beat just anyone w/ just their tongue :notrust


Minato is too smart to just spam his attacks. He would move and attack at the perfect movement, like he did against the rock nin. He perfectly placed the seal w/o the nin even noticing. So no, he won't throw a bunch of his kunais at point blank

If Minato tried to get close to Sasuke personally to tag him. This is what will happen.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/
Chidori Negashi no seals for the win.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Sasuke can react and use handseal, and use the jutsu so quick that he can counter an instant attack.:notrust If the Chidori nagashi is already in use, he wouldn't attack, or he could use rasengan to blow him up w/o using his hand



As for the rest of your post, I am too busy to respond. Besides, it is pure denial[/QUOTE]

he went for Itachi only once and that was ten years ago. You are wrong my friend.
Um no one is downgrading. You are overestimating. It does what it does. vBut he had his comareds toss the kunai over into enemy lines and they were not even prepared or assuming minato wasnt even on the battlefeild. And just had a whole bunch of kunais missing. And those were just fodder Nin. No one said to be or respected out of that crowd. And There was only 50 ninja.

But if you want to play numbers. How about Sasuke before Ms and Oro Trapping. He took down countless number of shinobi chuunin or higher that seemed to range in the thousands w/o breaking a sweat or taking a scratch. And didnt even kill one of them. Subduing them which is harder than actually killing them.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-343/page002.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-343/page004.html

So if you want to use that Minato took out 50 shinobi when no one knows how long it took. As an excuse for his victory. Then Sasuke trumps it. And He probably didnt even use CS seeing as his Jacket is still on. Looks like mere Shuriken and kunai play.

Also how is he attackin in a instant if he doesnt have the tag on him. It not getting close to him via kunai and isnt going to manage to tag him with it personaly. He would get fired with Chidori negashi. And I doubnt Rasengan would work. On chidori negashi. the attack is aerial and sparatic. There is nothing for Rasengan to connect with.

Also um dont u mean when the Rock Nin wasnt even worried about Minato and was fully concentrated on Kakashi slamming a Chidori through his gut and preparing to counter. Minato saved kakashi and planted it on his foot while he was distracted, Minato doesnt have the luxary of distraction

Now where was it stated that minato has kage bushin. There is more evidence of Sasuke having it than Minato.

Also wtf did you get that Minato Chakra is large. Nothing special has been said about his Chakra. Itachi and Sasuke has rediculous amoutn of Chakra. Sasuke fought two all out chakra extensive battle between 2 s-class nin with one of them being kage level and the chakra feats were impressive.ITachi used 4 power MS jutsu that are chakra extensive, bushins, genjutsu and fireball jutsu.

There is nothing indicating that Minato had huge Chakra pool. This statement was clearly pulled out of air. And Hatism. Specially since you said combined. And once again we have no idea how long it took for minato to take out the those 50 nin.

Also nothing has been stated that Minato took Senjutsu. He would literally have NO time to have taken it in his 22 years of living. In war and being Hokage. And The Pa toad would have said something about it by now specially when he said he needed people specialy like Jiraya and Naruto. Would have been a perfect time to say the 4th. So untill proven or atleast hinted. Dont jump to conclusion. Hell even stated.

Also Kawarimi doesnt take alot of chakra. Orochimaru's version with the rebirth takes alot of chakra. Regular Kawarimi is a simple jutsu and doesnt even look like it takes chakra at all.
[hr]

No...it was assumed by Deidara (someone who can't see chakra) that Sasuke was out of chakra. Likewise, when Sasuke ran out of chakra against Itachi, Orochimaru was no longer contained. Oro even says he was able to escape because Sasuke was out of chakra.

That's undisputable proof that he wasn't out of chakra against Deidara, or else Orochimaru would've escaped his body right then and there. Once COULD argue that he didn't jump out because he didn't want to get s'ploded. But he would've went boom even if he did stay in Sasuke's body, so the only logical explination would be because he simply wasn't out of chakra.

its clear Sasuke was out of Chakra. Seeing as he couldnt even support himself after the battle and was exaghsted. I think the first time Sasuke ran out of chakra Orochimaru found a way to break out. Then just had tow ait for a second oppurtunity.

Just like a prison break. The prisoners dont normally break out the first chance. They evauluae the situation and make a plan based on that opening.
[hr]
it not like Orochimaru actually knew how to just break out of it. He most likely had to figure out how.

[Raizen]

Speaking of chakra cost, Minato actually hasn't been proved to have a lot of chakra. He summoned Gamabunta, which takes alot...but Sasuke Can Summon Manda, who is larger than Gamabunta. And Itachi, even in his sickly form can perform 4 MS jutsu.

As for Sasuke using handseals that fast...maybe not. But Itachi definately can. He made a KB in the middle of he and Sasuke's shuriken duel that Sasuke couldn't even catch with the series' strongest Sharingan.

Gama and Manda are btoh boss summons so they take up same amount of chakra. What led me to saying he has high level chakra is due to his repeated use of an S-class attack and a possibility that he has mastered senjutsu and senjutsu learners are all blessed with beastly chakra.

Oh, and the kawamiri, the low level one has not been used in the manga since the beginning since it is probably too easy and make the fight seems lame since ninjas can keep disappearing so I inferred that it was the one sasuke used against itachi.

Also, as I have stated, minato does not need to use to use the tags on the bros. All he has to do is throw them, not at the bros, but surrounding them. Hiraishin allows him to teleport to wherever the tags are, giving him limitless places to attack from. And he can move from one tag to another in an instant allowing multiple attacks in a blink of an eye.

Also, none of the uchiha supporters have found a way around my strategy:
Minato can start the battle of by using a KB. then it will be 2 vs 2. Now he uses his speed and powers to split the two brothers. This strategy does not require minato to use the seal on the uchihas but rather just have the seals within himself. As each of the clone battle their respective opponent, they teleport at given times and join the other minato, making it 2 on 1, leaving the uchihas puzzled and outmatched. HE keeps doing that. After the 2 minatos attack one of the uchihas for a while he teleports back to his original opponent. They keep doing this back and forth. It gives them a sense of surprise and the ability to move out of danger. Just about anyone will be left defenseless with this strategy. Eventually Minato will beat them both

[Shaunlim]

No...it was assumed by Deidara (someone who can't see chakra) that Sasuke was out of chakra. Likewise, when Sasuke ran out of chakra against Itachi, Orochimaru was no longer contained. Oro even says he was able to escape because Sasuke was out of chakra.

That's undisputable proof that he wasn't out of chakra against Deidara, or else Orochimaru would've escaped his body right then and there. Once COULD argue that he didn't jump out because he didn't want to get s'ploded. But he would've went boom even if he did stay in Sasuke's body, so the only logical explination would be because he simply wasn't out of chakra.

Well like csdabest said, Sasuke couldn't even stand and his Sharingan went off as well(which is stupid if he did it himself since he still in a battle with deidara meaning that his chakra is nearly drained to the point that he couldn't even sustain the sharingan and since summoning a boss summon takes more chakra it is safe to assumed that he couldn't have done it in a normal way). I actually just thought it too, maybe Oro even lended Sasuke some chakra at that point since he didn't want to get blown up like you said.


@csdabest: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) and this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (this is unclear since the 4th may have already tag that nin but as far as I can tell, there was no tag attached to him but maybe I just don't see it) therefore Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case).

For all we know those thousands of ninja lying down wasted by Sasuke could be just genin. Their ranks was not specifically mentioned, sure they might look well equiped but that doesn't mean that they would be any higher than a genin.Heck they don't even have any headbands, for all we know they could be villagers dressed up as ninja to help train Sasuke(would explain the numbers of ninjas there that appeared from no where.) while those Rock nin faced by the 4th was most likely chunin and above maybe even some jounin for all we know (since there is a commander there and they managed to reduce the Konoha shinobi to 4 ninjas which tells you how strong they are).

As for Rasegan not touching the Chidori Nagashi, it doesn't have too. Since Rasengan won't conduct the electricity, Rasengan will still damage Sasuke without shocking/stunning the 4th depending on how large the AoE of nagashi is.

[ninjabot]

That's one way to think of it. But Itachi knew what it took to get Oro out of him, and he didn't make the jutsu. Why would'nt Oro know? I mean, he chose to escape at a moment when he was around an opponent who could kill him easily. If he would've come out at the end of the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight, there would've been no one there to stop him from just taking Sasuke's body then and there (Suigetsu would'nt have succeded in protecting Sasuke against Oro). It was the perfect chance, but he didnt take it because he couldn't. He was still being suppressed.

And we've no proof that Sasuke didn't turn off his Sharingan intentionally. He even states "he had another plan", implying that that entire fight went according to his "summon Manda when needed" plan.

Edit: Oh, and no one has bothered with that strategy because you said "Sasuke and Itachi will be preoccupied with their respective opponents". Not so. Sasuke and Itachi don't disappear with one hit. KB's do. One hit on the KB would stop Minato's plan and put him back on the defensive because it would be 2 on 1 again.

[Shaunlim]

That's one way to think of it. But Itachi knew what it took to get Oro out of him, and he didn't make the jutsu. Why would'nt Oro know? I mean, he chose to escape at a moment when he was around an opponent who could kill him easily. If he would've come out at the end of the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight, there would've been no one there to stop him from just taking Sasuke's body then and there (Suigetsu would'nt have succeded in protecting Sasuke against Or o).It was the perfect chance, but he didnt take it because he couldn't. He was still being suppressed.

Hmm..now that you have said it; it might be true but maybe that was the case because Sasuke didn't try to force out anymore chakra. He tried to force out more chakra by going CS2 even though he was out of it during the Itachi fight so that might have been the case.

[DarkManSharingan32]

That's one way to think of it. But Itachi knew what it took to get Oro out of him, and he didn't make the jutsu. Why would'nt Oro know? I mean, he chose to escape at a moment when he was around an opponent who could kill him easily. If he would've come out at the end of the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight, there would've been no one there to stop him from just taking Sasuke's body then and there (Suigetsu would'nt have succeded in protecting Sasuke against Oro). It was the perfect chance, but he didnt take it because he couldn't. He was still being suppressed.

And we've no proof that Sasuke didn't turn off his Sharingan intentionally. He even states "he had another plan", implying that that entire fight went according to his "summon Manda when needed" plan.

Edit: Oh, and no one has bothered with that strategy because you said "Sasuke and Itachi will be preoccupied with their respective opponents". Not so. Sasuke and Itachi don't disappear with one hit. KB's do. One hit on the KB would stop Minato's plan and put him back on the defensive because it would be 2 on 1 again.

And the fact that Itachi can use KB as well.
Imagine Minato's surprise if he finds out hes been fighting nothing but Henge'd KB for about 10 minutes.

And the plan is most easily debunked by Sasuke actually...

Hey Sasuke...See something you don't like?

Use Chidori Nagashi!

~poof~

There ya go kiddo, now go paralyze the flash with a Genjutsu.

[The Flash]

Cdsabest.

I've read your post, You are truly in denial.

THe proof that Minato has large amount of chakra --> Is summoning the BIG FROG BOSS. Even naruto at first had to use his kyuubi chakra. There i hope that shuts your mouth.

Plus have you heard of genetics -> Naruto naturally has a large amount of chakra. So therefore (in term of genetics) his mother or father had large chakra. This only supports the fact that minato has a large amount of chakra. But either way, minato summining The big FROG BOSS, is already enough.

Naruto(w/o kyuubi) = Minato in terms of chakra.

Naruto/Minato > Itachi/Sasuke
Naruto(with kyubi) > Minato > Itachi/Sasuke.

Btw do you seriously think Minato doesnt know Kage bunshin. C"mon seriously? Kage bunshin is a jounin jutsu... I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages, and ninjas in history has kage bunshin.

Like i said Your in denial. Your just jealous that your beloved/disgraced uchiha bros didnt receive the great title that Kishimoto entitled to Minato only.

As for the votes... 22 - 9? ouch
[hr]
Plus I'm also assuming Minato's main element is Wind, Secondary Element could be water.
Either way his wind would dismantle Sasuke's Nagashi or what not.

[Raizen]

Cdsabest.

I've read your post, You are truly in denial.

THe proof that Minato has large amount of chakra --> Is summoning the BIG FROG BOSS. Even naruto at first had to use his kyuubi chakra. There i hope that shuts your mouth.

Plus have you heard of genetics -> Naruto naturally has a large amount of chakra. So therefore (in term of genetics) his mother or father had large chakra. This only supports the fact that minato has a large amount of chakra. But either way, minato summining The big FROG BOSS, is already enough.

Naruto(w/o kyuubi) = Minato in terms of chakra.

Naruto/Minato > Itachi/Sasuke
Naruto(with kyubi) > Minato > Itachi/Sasuke.

Btw do you seriously think Minato doesnt know Kage bunshin. C"mon seriously? Kage bunshin is a jounin jutsu... I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages, and ninjas in history has kage bunshin.

Like i said Your in denial. Your just jealous that your beloved/disgraced uchiha bros didnt receive the great title that Kishimoto entitled to Minato only.

As for the votes... 22 - 9? ouch
[hr]
Plus I'm also assuming Minato's main element is Wind, Secondary Element could be water.
Either way his wind would dismantle Sasuke's Nagashi or what not.
WAY TO GO!!
And they are in denial b/c none of them has replied on how to get around my plan for Minato to fight the two. With my plan, the bros would get f-ed up.

Also, Csdabest, first you said itachi would lose to minato and then you said itachi can beat minato. Which one is it?? B/c I see even itachi getting beat pretty easily

[Baron Hugenstein]

Cdsabest.

I've read your post, You are truly in denial.

THe proof that Minato has large amount of chakra --> Is summoning the BIG FROG BOSS. Even naruto at first had to use his kyuubi chakra. There i hope that shuts your mouth.

Plus have you heard of genetics -> Naruto naturally has a large amount of chakra. So therefore (in term of genetics) his mother or father had large chakra. This only supports the fact that minato has a large amount of chakra. But either way, minato summining The big FROG BOSS, is already enough.

Naruto(w/o kyuubi) = Minato in terms of chakra.

Naruto/Minato > Itachi/Sasuke
Naruto(with kyubi) > Minato > Itachi/Sasuke.

Btw do you seriously think Minato doesnt know Kage bunshin. C"mon seriously? Kage bunshin is a jounin jutsu... I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages, and ninjas in history has kage bunshin.

Like i said Your in denial. Your just jealous that your beloved/disgraced uchiha bros didnt receive the great title that Kishimoto entitled to Minato only.

As for the votes... 22 - 9? ouch
<hr noshade size="1">
Plus I'm also assuming Minato's main element is Wind, Secondary Element could be water.
Either way his wind would dismantle Sasuke's Nagashi or what not.

Even if minato does have large Chakra and can summon Gamabunta, how does it help him defeat the bros???
Even if Gamabunta does get summoned, Sasuke can summon Manda or something equal to that size. Or Itachi uses the MS and Gamabunta goes against your "lovable" Minato. And how can i be sure that MS will work, well it worked on something much worse than Gamabunta, didn't it now??(hint: it is Kyuubi)

As for Minato being known, of course he would. He was Hokage, it would be pathetic if Konoha didn't know its own Hokage, as for his great title, he only got it because he invented a jutsu or two or cut Kyuubi. And for Konoha's sake, Itachi's mission required him to be evil and mysterious.

An if you humbly look at Itachi or Sasuke, they are simply genetically better, why!; The Sharingan: we didn't over exaggerate it, Kishimoto made it better.
Simply look at Madara, who had the Sharingan's best in his eyes. The guy was almost to someone who is a monster when you compare him to anyone in that world, i.e Hashirama.

Besides, if it weren't for Itachi, there wouldn't be any Konoha meaning there wouldn't be any Naruto or Kakashi.

Second thing: a few posts before you said that if Minato uses his special kunai, he would kill the Bros; i would agree with you only if he was fighting
a cardboard images of the Bros.
True, he can move from A to B in a millisecond, but for the Kunai to reach their destination, they need some time. And these Kunai or even the tattoos use Chakra, which the Sharingan can see. And if the Sharingan can see something as small as a cell(Deidara's specialty), then it wouldn't have any problems seeing the Kunai.

Meaning the Uchiha bros can see where all the likely places Minato can go to, ooo wait, if they know; then the Bros can make a plan, and possibly injure him and kill him. The Uchihas won't be standing still and waiting for Minato to strike you know.


Another scenario, for Minato to identify who is he fighting(o he can formulate his plans), he needs to look at their faces. But wait, the Bros can cast Genjutsu from their eyes, and Itachi from his finger. And if Itachi figured out a way to give people some of his power, then it is very possible that he can cast a Genjutsu within a Genjutsu within another; which means That great Minato will soon crumble and die.

Btw, Itachi isn't the type to keep His Tsukyuomi till the end, and last time i checked, It was a forbidden Genjutsuand only an Uchiha can conuter, since they can achieve MS. And by the smart Zetzu, Tsukyuomi is the strongest Genjutsu.....i don't think somebody in Zetzu's position would lie, due to his expericence and since he watched the Jiraiya and Pain fight.

In this situation, Minato won't have long time before he is beaten. The odds are stacked high against him.





I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages

Hmm, after Konoha's peace yes that maybe be true. But Hashirama can never be equaled or dethroned. If he is, really, dethroned; that would mean that Pain isn't all that strong, since he about as strong and Madara, and Madara is a bit weaker than Hashirama. Doesn't really match, logically.

Also, it is funny that "the great title" was given to someone when gave his live to split the Kyuubi while there are another few who can tame it with a blink of an eye, and another who can beat it until it submits

[Csdabest]

Cdsabest.

I've read your post, You are truly in denial.

THe proof that Minato has large amount of chakra --> Is summoning the BIG FROG BOSS. Even naruto at first had to use his kyuubi chakra. There i hope that shuts your mouth.

Plus have you heard of genetics -> Naruto naturally has a large amount of chakra. So therefore (in term of genetics) his mother or father had large chakra. This only supports the fact that minato has a large amount of chakra. But either way, minato summining The big FROG BOSS, is already enough.

Naruto(w/o kyuubi) = Minato in terms of chakra.

Naruto/Minato > Itachi/Sasuke
Naruto(with kyubi) > Minato > Itachi/Sasuke.

Btw do you seriously think Minato doesnt know Kage bunshin. C"mon seriously? Kage bunshin is a jounin jutsu... I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages, and ninjas in history has kage bunshin.

Like i said Your in denial. Your just jealous that your beloved/disgraced uchiha bros didnt receive the great title that Kishimoto entitled to Minato only.

As for the votes... 22 - 9? ouch
<hr noshade size="1">
Plus I'm also assuming Minato's main element is Wind, Secondary Element could be water.
Either way his wind would dismantle Sasuke's Nagashi or what not.

No...not denial....you just delusional. Nothing NOTHING has been said about Minato chakra. Just because Naruto has a large chakra pool doesnt mean his father does. You do realize that he has Kyuubi chakra right? So your trying to say Minato has kyuubi chakra. And Large chakra pools are not genetic. Nothing has ever been said about Chakra pools being genetic. The only clan to have that unique capability was the Uchiha clan. And Your excuse for him having a big chakra pool was gambunta. Sasuske who was basically almost chakra dry summoned a huge summoning. What was that summoning again. Manda. WHo was said to be the stronger out of gambunta and that slug summon. And contyrolled it with his Sharingan. Also summoning another big as snake ealier on in that fight. Get serious.

Also....Just because Minato was a kage. And was better than all the kages. He had to have Kage bushin cuz it was jounin level jutsu. That doesnt mean he has it at all. Sasuke used a Chuunin level jutsu with the fireball jutsu. Does that mean ALL chuunins and jounin have the fireball jutsu. your logic is LARGELY flawed. Every jounin and chuunin isnt the same


Need evidence that states Minato ever had kage bushin. Lets check some other jounin. Asuma, Jiraya, Tsunade, Kurenai, Gai, Neji, Anko. All jounin level nins who has never shown evidence of having kage bushin.


There you go...Assuming. Nothing pointed to minato having wind or water affinities. There are some jounin who dont have elemental affinities except yin and yang. But seriously. STOP ASSUMING. Even then having an affinity doesnt mean you have a wind jutsu. Minato felt at creating one so please hush. And Elemental affinity is somewhat genetic. But not definet at all. Uchiha the only clan to said to have a genetic affinity of fire. Proff it not completley genetic. How come Sasuke got lightning while his brother got water.

It makes you look extremely bad when you try to insult or make fun of someone. Or dry to disgrace someones arguement when you have zero facts and only personal assumption and opinions to back up your statement. Specially against someone who has evidence and feats to back up his argument.

But good job. :p

[ninjabot]

And they are in denial b/c none of them has replied on how to get around my plan for Minato to fight the two.

So I'm guessing you didn't read me or DarkmanSharingan32's posts? Hmm. Whatever. And as for the poll, just because the amount of people that are wrong outnumber the amount of poeple that are right, doesn't mean Minato can win.

It means you hate the Uchiha's so much that common sense becomes null and void. Be proud of that if you want to. But don't mistake that as winning the debate. Seriously, if you made a "Sasuke vs. Konohamaru" arena battle, Konohamaru would win the fight thanks to the poll reading something like Sasuke 3, Konohamaru 40. And no one would call shenanigans, because it's another chance to start a fanwar. Sad.

[Csdabest]

WAY TO GO!!
And they are in denial b/c none of them has replied on how to get around my plan for Minato to fight the two. With my plan, the bros would get f-ed up.

Also, Csdabest, first you said itachi would lose to minato and then you said itachi can beat minato. Which one is it?? B/c I see even itachi getting beat pretty easily

wow....with you plan. With my plan minato would get a a thumb stuck up his arse.

But yes. I did. But I also said its a close match and could go either way. Whcih means. Minato could win. Or Itachi could win.

The statement of Minato being the best Ninja to ever be produced from konoha. Is a dated term. Speaking of back then when know one in konoha knew or seen Itachi true power. Or Sasuke went to train with Orochimaru and got his MS. Your working from a statement made before pretimeskip and manga time i blieve.
[hr]
OMG...LOOK AT THE POLL.
23 PEOPLE SAID MINATO WOULD WIN
AND ONLY 11 for the UCHIHA BROS. Damn This REMINDS ME WHEN EVERYONE THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS FLAT. Some odds there.

[DarkManSharingan32]

Cdsabest.

I've read your post, You are truly in denial.

THe proof that Minato has large amount of chakra --> Is summoning the BIG FROG BOSS. Even naruto at first had to use his kyuubi chakra. There i hope that shuts your mouth.

Plus have you heard of genetics -> Naruto naturally has a large amount of chakra. So therefore (in term of genetics) his mother or father had large chakra. This only supports the fact that minato has a large amount of chakra. But either way, minato summining The big FROG BOSS, is already enough.

Naruto(w/o kyuubi) = Minato in terms of chakra.

Naruto/Minato > Itachi/Sasuke
Naruto(with kyubi) > Minato > Itachi/Sasuke.

Btw do you seriously think Minato doesnt know Kage bunshin. C"mon seriously? Kage bunshin is a jounin jutsu... I'm sure the hokage who surpasses all hokages, and ninjas in history has kage bunshin.

Like i said Your in denial. Your just jealous that your beloved/disgraced uchiha bros didnt receive the great title that Kishimoto entitled to Minato only.

As for the votes... 22 - 9? ouch
<hr noshade size="1">
Plus I'm also assuming Minato's main element is Wind, Secondary Element could be water.
Either way his wind would dismantle Sasuke's Nagashi or what not.

Although I agree with you on the Chakra Pool point... Naruto does not NEED to use the Kyuubi chakra to summon Gamabunta. In the first instance, Jiraiya exhausted all of his Active Chakra, and in the second... Naruto himself drained all his own chakra for the summoning. In both cases leaving Kyuubi chakra as THE ONLY OPTION.

Naruto has more than enough chakra to summon Gamabunta on his own... but thanks in part to Jiraiya, I don't think he's been focusing on that area too much.

And about Minato... Water (which loses out to lightning a bit... which we just learned), and Wind (which loses to Fire, royally)...

With these configurations... Depending on what element Minato uses he can bring about his own downfall.

Just like in your example:
Although there is no evidence whatsoever as to the depth of Minatos Spacial Manipulation skills (although he DID create the Rasengan)... theres very little chance that he has done so in any manner close to that of Sasuke.

But for the sake of argument, lets say that Minato somehow uses a wind element attack to cut through the Nagashi...

Sasuke/Itachi have a plethora of strong Fire jutsu that he can use to beat the attack back, and even strengthen his own putting Minato instantly on the defensive.

But this can go on forever if people are going to invent jutsu to attribute to Yondaime.


So, I'll stop my post here.

[Eddy01741]

I think that this topic simply fails because of the mystery surrounding Minato, we simply don't know enough about him or his techniques, period.

[kkck]

I dot doupt minato was extremely powerful, but I think him being the strongest ninja ever is an exageration.
Minato unlike hashirama didnt have an ability that allowed him to fight demons, and yet, unlike hashirama he managed to permanently deal with kyubi. That is more than enough for a ninja to b called the greatest ever, without actually being the greatest ever.

[Raizen]

wow....with you plan. With my plan minato would get a a thumb stuck up his arse.

But yes. I did. But I also said its a close match and could go either way. Whcih means. Minato could win. Or Itachi could win.

The statement of Minato being the best Ninja to ever be produced from konoha. Is a dated term. Speaking of back then when know one in konoha knew or seen Itachi true power. Or Sasuke went to train with Orochimaru and got his MS. Your working from a statement made before pretimeskip and manga time i blieve.
[hr]
OMG...LOOK AT THE POLL.
23 PEOPLE SAID MINATO WOULD WIN
AND ONLY 11 for the UCHIHA BROS. Damn This REMINDS ME WHEN EVERYONE THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS FLAT. Some odds there.
First off, sasuke was only able to summon manda from a seal that has been absorbing chakra from him over time. It works similarly to tsunade's seal. So it was chakra over time that summoned manda, not sasuke at the time. Thus sasuke does not have the capacity and ability needed to summon a boss.

Secondly, you still have not answered how the uchihas would get around minato and KB jumping back and forth through hiraishin attacking continuosly. You guys act as if the kunais are the main attack, it is merely a distraction a weapon. He can strategically place hundreds of kunais during the battle in order to have access to them during any time he likes giving him the element of surprise at any given time and the ability to move out of an attack. Lets say he throw 10 kunais, they all surround itachi but none of them are meant to hit him. This gives minato the ability to move to 10 different spots in a blink of an eye, giving him ten element of surprise, 10 chances to attack, and itachi 10 blind spots. Even if itachi is fast he can't counter all these attacks as fast as minato attacking.

And chidori nagashi, I am sure minato would find a way around it, hypothetically speaking if he has wind nature (most likely), and then someone said sasuke can just use fire style. Of course sasuke can use both fire and lightning attacks so fast that a technique like hiraishin which allow minato to move faster than ... (IDK)... You know what it is impossible to counter hiraishin w/ a fire element b/c it take quite a while to blow it out, let alone a fire and lightning element. So that is out of the question

Oh and by the way, a genjutsu from the finger is most likely not that powerful and I am sure someone who has perfected in controlling their chakra and has huge amounts of it can break out of it. Tsukyomi is the only relevant gen, but w. minato's speed it is not even a factor.

[Csdabest]

First off, sasuke was only able to summon manda from a seal that has been absorbing chakra from him over time. It works similarly to tsunade's seal. So it was chakra over time that summoned manda, not sasuke at the time. Thus sasuke does not have the capacity and ability needed to summon a boss.

Secondly, you still have not answered how the uchihas would get around minato and KB jumping back and forth through hiraishin attacking continuosly. You guys act as if the kunais are the main attack, it is merely a distraction a weapon. He can strategically place hundreds of kunais during the battle in order to have access to them during any time he likes giving him the element of surprise at any given time and the ability to move out of an attack. Lets say he throw 10 kunais, they all surround itachi but none of them are meant to hit him. This gives minato the ability to move to 10 different spots in a blink of an eye, giving him ten element of surprise, 10 chances to attack, and itachi 10 blind spots. Even if itachi is fast he can't counter all these attacks as fast as minato attacking.

And chidori nagashi, I am sure minato would find a way around it, hypothetically speaking if he has wind nature (most likely), and then someone said sasuke can just use fire style. Of course sasuke can use both fire and lightning attacks so fast that a technique like hiraishin which allow minato to move faster than ... (IDK)... You know what it is impossible to counter hiraishin w/ a fire element b/c it take quite a while to blow it out, let alone a fire and lightning element. So that is out of the question

Oh and by the way, a genjutsu from the finger is most likely not that powerful and I am sure someone who has perfected in controlling their chakra and has huge amounts of it can break out of it. Tsukyomi is the only relevant gen, but w. minato's speed it is not even a factor.

And Where do you suppose the chakra came from. Also....Where in the world did you get your theory from. Dont try and bring your own personal theory into a discussion w/o proof

I have answered. With Where in the world did you even get Minato even having Kage Bushin. Just because its a jounin doesnt mean every Jounin has it. Proffessor is the only known kage to have all of konohas techniques.

Also what do you think Itachi and Sasuke is going to be doing while Minato is trying to place kunai and tags around. The logic is soo flawed. What is minato going to do for Kirin as sasuke sets it up as he just stands there Doing absolutely nothing. And his Hirashin is limited to where the tags is. I will laugh my ass off so hard if Sasuke has Madara's spacetime jutsu along wit kakashi showing you just how hard this logica fails. Also Minato hasnt been known for his weapons skills so i doubt he can shuriken and kunai spam like Sasuke or Itachi. He had help slinging all those Kunai's around when he took out those 50 nin. w/o help the most he seems to be able to manage is one. ANd dont go saying KB. Cuz there is no evidence in him having it.

Chidori Negashi is a counter defensive move. Minato isnt going to get his attack countered only to counter a counter. Minato isnt that fast.

Did you forget how subtle the finger jutsu was. Naruto didnt even notice it. Everything seem realed until Naruto busted itachi and itachi revealed it was a genjutsu. Minato is fighting two people. While he is busy with the genjutsu. Sasuke decapitates or dismembers. If he can rape and reverse genjutsu on a GENJUTSU SPECIALIST then there is no reason why he cant trap Minato who isnt known for genjutsu. Only those with a nack for genjutsu has seem to be able to make their way around it.

[Shaunlim]

Hey Sasuke...See something you don't like?

Use Chidori Nagashi!

~poof~

There ya go kiddo, now go paralyze the flash with a Genjutsu.
As stated before by me, Chidori Nagashi is not something that can be easily spammed.




http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) and this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (this is unclear since the 4th may have already tag that nin but as far as I can tell, there was no tag attached to him but maybe I just don't see it) therefore Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case).

You all do realised that throwing kunai or shuriken from the back could kill someone too you know. It's not like chidori nagashi can actually block weapons. Although that would most likely fail simply because Sasuke might be able to dodge it but with the 4th teleporting here and there, throwing then.....(and no Sasuke spamming shuriken against this wouldn't work as the 4th will be moving everywhere unlike the time with Itachi where they both just stood still)



Even if minato does have large Chakra and can summon Gamabunta, how does it help him defeat the bros???
Even if Gamabunta does get summoned, Sasuke can summon Manda or something equal to that size. Or Itachi uses the MS and Gamabunta goes against your "lovable" Minato. And how can i be sure that MS will work, well it worked on something much worse than Gamabunta, didn't it now??(hint: it is Kyuubi)
The only reason why we ever said Minato had large chakra was because you all said that he would die from spamming his hiraishin that's all. Last time I check Manda actually was genjutsu'ed to work for Sasuke. This I seriously cannot stress enough as it is mentioned over and over again by me.....if the summons can avoid eye contact, how the heck is the genjutsu is going to work....just because they have big eyes which means the uchiha can look into theirs doesn't mean they would be looking back at their eyes.....and they could always break out from it or the summoner can always make it go *poof*.(only reason Manda got genjutsu'ed is probably because he didn't know that Sasuke would use the genjutsu on him and WAS probably trying to break out from the genjutsu only to be blown up by Deidara). Lastly,just because MS controls the kyuubi doesn't mean it could control every single thing in the world. It was specifically mentioned Kyuubi not every single bijyuu, meaning anything less worse than it would be controlled.......it is never mentioned so don't go assuming....


As for Minato being known, of course he would. He was Hokage, it would be pathetic if Konoha didn't know its own Hokage, as for his great title, he only got it because he invented a jutsu or two or cut Kyuubi. And for Konoha's sake, Itachi's mission required him to be evil and mysterious.
He got his title due to his speed which was feared by almost everyone at his time.....




An if you humbly look at Itachi or Sasuke, they are simply genetically better, why!; The Sharingan: we didn't over exaggerate it, Kishimoto made it better.
Simply look at Madara, who had the Sharingan's best in his eyes. The guy was almost to someone who is a monster when you compare him to anyone in that world, i.e Hashirama.
Besides, if it weren't for Itachi, there wouldn't be any Konoha meaning there wouldn't be any Naruto or Kakashi.
The Sharingan...you did over exaggerate it.....as we have shown you all evidence countless of times....it is not impossible to beat it...even if you can't....you can still bypass it...as shown by Zabuza and Lee......you do know that Kakashi is older than Itachi or at least the same age as him....and no one said that Konoha would die off if it weren't for Itachi. it was said that other countries would most likely taken advantage and try to take over Konoha when the Uchiha and the Konoha fight each other(which I believe the Konoha actually still stand a chance seeing that most of them would be from the Senju clan.).


Second thing: a few posts before you said that if Minato uses his special kunai, he would kill the Bros; i would agree with you only if he was fighting
a cardboard images of the Bros.
True, he can move from A to B in a millisecond, but for the Kunai to reach their destination, they need some time. And these Kunai or even the tattoos use Chakra, which the Sharingan can see. And if the Sharingan can see something as small as a cell(Deidara's specialty), then it wouldn't have any problems seeing the Kunai.

Meaning the Uchiha bros can see where all the likely places Minato can go to, ooo wait, if they know; then the Bros can make a plan, and possibly injure him and kill him. The Uchihas won't be standing still and waiting for Minato to strike you know.
True it would take a longer time for the Kunai to reach but by all means we said threw them to the ground as the surrounding them with Kunai everywhere. So what if the Sharingan can see the chakra on the tag. It's not like they know what will happen either way. They could guess and be suspicious but that's all.
Yes they would see all the likely places that Minato can go but while they are making a plan and figuring out how Minato's Hiraishin works it would be too late by then and no Minato won't be standing still after attacking them once and fail, he would still be flying here and there.


Another scenario, for Minato to identify who is he fighting(o he can formulate his plans), he needs to look at their faces. But wait, the Bros can cast Genjutsu from their eyes, and Itachi from his finger. And if Itachi figured out a way to give people some of his power, then it is very possible that he can cast a Genjutsu within a Genjutsu within another; which means That great Minato will soon crumble and die.
Last I check, this is a high speed battle so eye contact would be hard let alone starring at his finger. Another thing is Minato could use other means of distinguishing them...clothes,height,size.....and he don't really need to formulate a plan based on those two. He could just formulate a plan on how to get behind those two and cut their throat.


Btw, Itachi isn't the type to keep His Tsukyuomi till the end, and last time i checked, It was a forbidden Genjutsuand only an Uchiha can conuter, since they can achieve MS. And by the smart Zetzu, Tsukyuomi is the strongest Genjutsu.....i don't think somebody in Zetzu's position would lie, due to his expericence and since he watched the Jiraiya and Pain fight.
As mentioned eye contact is needed for this.Also Zetsu is basing all of this on what he have saw or seen so it is unlikely that Tsukiyomi is the strongest just because Zetsu didn't really see any other stronger genjutsu.


In this situation, Minato won't have long time before he is beaten. The odds are stacked high against him.
Sorry to disagree with you on this.


Also, it is funny that "the great title" was given to someone when gave his live to split the Kyuubi while there are another few who can tame it with a blink of an eye, and another who can beat it until it submits
And those two had KGs. I don't even think Madara or Shodai could have taken on the Kyuubi without their EMS or Mokuton. No disrespect to those two but their strength is highly due to their KG that's all. Note that the 4th took on the Kyuubi without a KG and could have still killed it (he just decided to seal half of it into Naruto for some reason.)



I dot doupt minato was extremely powerful, but I think him being the strongest ninja ever is an exageration.
Minato unlike hashirama didnt have an ability that allowed him to fight demons, and yet, unlike hashirama he managed to permanently deal with kyubi. That is more than enough for a ninja to b called the greatest ever, without actually being the greatest ever.
Of course it is. Minato did it without a KG while Hashirama and Madara did.

[DarkManSharingan32]

First off, sasuke was only able to summon manda from a seal that has been absorbing chakra from him over time. It works similarly to tsunade's seal. So it was chakra over time that summoned manda, not sasuke at the time. Thus sasuke does not have the capacity and ability needed to summon a boss.

Then I guess Orochimaru can't either. -.-
And can you please explain how a summon happens... by chakra alone.

Once more, because it makes no sense when you explain it that way.


Secondly, you still have not answered how the uchihas would get around minato and KB jumping back and forth through hiraishin attacking continuosly. You guys act as if the kunais are the main attack, it is merely a distraction a weapon. He can strategically place hundreds of kunais during the battle in order to have access to them during any time he likes giving him the element of surprise at any given time and the ability to move out of an attack. Lets say he throw 10 kunais, they all surround itachi but none of them are meant to hit him. This gives minato the ability to move to 10 different spots in a blink of an eye, giving him ten element of surprise, 10 chances to attack, and itachi 10 blind spots. Even if itachi is fast he can't counter all these attacks as fast as minato attacking.

First of all...
Kunai move in a straight line... How are they EVER going to surround anybody?

Unless Sasuke and Itachi allow Minato to Shunshin around them with Kunai attacks, and stand still while he does so... your whole theory is basically unusable.

And as far as Tool-work goes... the Uchiha's have manga evidence that they are among the top-tier.

If Minato is going to try and toss Kunai around... he might end up looking like a reversed-Porcupine.
---



And chidori nagashi, I am sure minato would find a way around it, hypothetically speaking if he has wind nature (most likely), and then someone said sasuke can just use fire style. Of course sasuke can use both fire and lightning attacks so fast that a technique like hiraishin which allow minato to move faster than ... (IDK)... You know what it is impossible to counter hiraishin w/ a fire element b/c it take quite a while to blow it out, let alone a fire and lightning element. So that is out of the question

If Minato has enough time to use a wind attack... Sasuke has enough time to preform a fire attacks... and Itachi... has too much time.

And we werent talking abut Hiraishin... but what? He's going to launch a Kunai into a Nagashi or fire attack? Sounds like he's preparing for suicide under your plan...


Oh and by the way, a genjutsu from the finger is most likely not that powerful and I am sure someone who has perfected in controlling their chakra and has huge amounts of it can break out of it. Tsukyomi is the only relevant gen, but w. minato's speed it is not even a factor.

While it is certainly not that powerful... Minato probably can't auto-escape it.

Giving Sasuke and Itachi TIME... which is certainly more dangerous than you give these guys credit for.


As stated before by me, Chidori Nagashi is not something that can be easily spammed.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/

No seals, and no warning.
It can be spammed... but Sasuke won't use it in that manner.

A defense for multiple opponents?
Seems like a perfect strategy against KB... for even Naruto, nevermind Minato.

[Shaunlim]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/

No seals, and no warning.
It can be spammed... but Sasuke won't use it in that manner.

A defense for multiple opponents?
Seems like a perfect strategy against KB... for even Naruto, nevermind Minato.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) and this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (this is unclear since the 4th may have already tag that nin but as far as I can tell, there was no tag attached to him but maybe I just don't see it) therefore Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case).

[DarkManSharingan32]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) and this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (this is unclear since the 4th may have already tag that nin but as far as I can tell, there was no tag attached to him but maybe I just don't see it) therefore Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case).

It's Hiraishin.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
Thats when he puts the tag on...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/
And at the bottom you can see where it is... it even zooms in to show it.
---

And come on man...
Sasuke was getting "beaten".
It's nearly impossible to mould chakra in that state... nevermind change it into Lightning, and then discharge it from your entire body.

[The Flash]

OK you know what. I WONT BE BIAS - AND U SHOULDn't be BIAS TOO.

The fight between Itachi/Sasuke and Minato will be very close at both ends. As a whole I think Either they all die, or both sides retreat. Cause i'm sure none would be stupid to sacrifice their lives. And all three are genius. But give credit to minato as he died at a pretty young age - who knows if he lived as long as Jiraiya -- heck he could've completed His own incomplete techniques, and build new formidable jutsu's.


If minato uses DEATH technique on itachi and sasuke - game over
If Itachi uses Susanoo - game over.

But in comparison of "Whos the better Genius", and NOT the "ARSENAL OF JUTSU's"(since that would be a mismatch considering we know very little of Minato's Jutsu's). Minato beats all. This is stated By Jiraiya himself, That someone like Minato only comes rarely. - He is truly one of a kind.

As for Minato > itachi ---> i completely agree. Proof. Gee - do you remember when Itachi and Kisame came down for a visit. Itachi refused to attack Jiraiya, because he said "Jiraiya is stronger than i am". So BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE DAMN MANGA --> Jiraiya is > Itachi. - Yeah thats right i hope that quiets you down.

As for Minato and Jiraiya - Who is stronger. It is obvious that Minato is stronger than Jiraiya. So in conclusion: Minato > Itachi.

**
Now now you may bring up "Well Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya, and yet Itachi defeated him" - well thats easy to explain. Jiraiya is weak against orochimaru's attacks, but Jiraiya is strong against Itachi's attacks. It all comes down to the technique and style of a ninja! (ex: Orochimaru is also a gengutsu user... but we all know itachi IS THE KING of gengutsu. Hence Itachi >orochimaru)

A perfect example of this - is elements. NO ELEMENT IS BEST ELEMENT
for example.... Water>Fire>WIND>Lightning. as to Itachi>orochimaru>Jiraiya>Itachi

As for Minato, Minato is very similiar to Jiraiya - he is also a frog user.. After all Jiraiya did teach everything to Minato... but Minato excelled in his own way and became hokage.

This also applies to the fact that MINATO > ITACHI
**

Now lets back to the topic of Minato vs Sharingan gay bros. You know i wont be Bias here. But This will be a tie. In fact Both sides can win - it just depends how effective they are in combat..

But the funny thing is. We only know little about Minato. I can only mention three of his techniques - and look how competitive this Minato can be. FUnny eh - and yet there's a whole list of what Itachi and sasuke can do.

FINAL VERDICT : MINATO THE GREAT VS LEGENDARY UCHIHA BROTHERS --- RESULT: TIE --
(based on what we know about Minato's Arsenal of jutsu)

---------------------------
I think the current poll leans toward, "If we knew everything about Minato, then Minato destroys Itachi/Sasuke" - hence the score of the poll :23 - 10. OWNED


ps- CDSABEST dont ever call me delusional

[Csdabest]

So you disregard what one part of the manga says for another part. And Jiraya statement is outdated when it was made. Minato being the best ninja produced by konoha is outdated. These staments were made unaware of Sasuke's growth and Itachi power. Jiraya didnt even know Itachi's power. All that was known that Itachi was extremely stronger and could take out tehwhole uchiha clan by himself. No one seemed to know about Mangekyo Sharingan but members of the Uchiha. And until Itachi told Kakashi about it.

When the statements were made. There were uninformed and are now outdated. Kisame was the one who made the statements about being beat by Jiraya and i doubt he knew Itachi full power. Itachi not wanting to fight was mainly due to not wanting to start a war between Konoha and Akatsuki cuz Konoha can make things extremely difficult for Akatasuki. This was later stated.

[The Flash]

IT is said 4th Hokage is greatest and strongest of all Hokages.

Now can you Imagine the first shodai with all 9 tailed beasts by his side fighting Itachi. Hey Csdabest - who do you think will win. If you say Itachi.. then your truly in denial.

and oh "Speaking of dates" - Minato's reign over Konoha was many years after Shodaime. And they all say he is the greatest hokage. SO i believe the statements about Minato were "UPDATED" at that time. And i believe the only hokage was still living at that time was also the third. And yet everyone acknowledged him as the greatest and most powerful.

Now if Minato > First hokage. Can you answer this question : Shodaime with all the tailed beasts at his side fighting Itachi. Who would win? The sad thing is Shodaime defeated Madara... and madara is > itachi.

There no need for statements or dated in the fricken Naruto manga dude. This isn't official History. IT IS KISHIMOTO WRITING THIS. IF he says it what it is.. then it is what it is.

I've let go of the fan i have for minato and Naruto. Like i said i wasnt being Bias with the post above yours. But seriously its time to let go yours. Your only just assuming. and speculating things right now. Where i'm using the info that the manga has

[Csdabest]

IT is said 4th Hokage is greatest and strongest of all Hokages.

Now can you Imagine the first shodai with all 9 tailed beasts by his side fighting Itachi. Hey Csdabest - who do you think will win. If you say Itachi.. then your truly in denial.

and oh "Speaking of dates" - Minato's reign over Konoha was many years after Shodaime. And they all say he is the greatest hokage. SO i believe the statements about Minato were "UPDATED" at that time. And i believe the only hokage was still living at that time was also the third. And yet everyone acknowledged him as the greatest and most powerful.

Now if Minato > First hokage. Can you answer this question : Shodaime with all the tailed beasts at his side fighting Itachi. Who would win? The sad thing is Shodaime defeated Madara... and madara is > itachi.

There no need for statements or dated in the fricken Naruto manga dude. This isn't official History. IT IS KISHIMOTO WRITING THIS. IF he says it what it is.. then it is what it is.

I've let go of the fan i have for minato and Naruto. Like i said i wasnt being Bias with the post above yours. But seriously its time to let go yours. Your only just assuming. and speculating things right now. Where i'm using the info that the manga has


Shodai didnt have all 9 bijuu. he had several. And he gave them away as peace treaties. Leaving him w/o them. And once again GREATEST DOESNT MEAN THE MOST POWERFUL. He is known as the greatest for a feat. Stopping the 9-tails assult on Konoha by sacraficing his life.

Hashirama>Minato more likely when it comes to a fight. Because HE ACTUALLY TOOK ON MAdara and the 9-tails. Yet Minato had to give his life to seal it away. There is a huge difference in abilities. I doubt people even knew the events of Hashirama's battle with Madara.

No i wasnt speaking of that statement of outdating. I specifically reffered to the statement Greatest Shinobi produced from Konoha.

But since you want to play games.

Hashirama w/ Several Bijuu vs Minato. Do you really think minato would stance a chance? Specially when he ahd to give his life to defeat one. His summoning cant even handle the 1 dales for long.

Now Shodai vs Minato. I beleive Minato could handle him then. There are soo many equations you are not imputing in a situation.

Could Itachi Beat the first Hokage. Sure... I beleive he can. Can he beat Hashirama with several bijuu backing him. I highly doubt it.

Minato cant even Take care of Madara w/ the 9-tails. He got rid of the 9-tails at the cost of his life. Madara is still ready for action. And if madara did summon the 9-tails. Technically Madara beat the 4th Hokage at the cost of his Bijuu. Putting Madara above Minato.

There are missing peices of the story and gaps of information and refferences that you are missing.
[hr]
Where have I assumed and Speculated. YOUR WHOLE BASIS FOR MINATO EVEN WINNING HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT UNPROVEN OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS.

[Shaunlim]

It's Hiraishin.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
Thats when he puts the tag on...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/
And at the bottom you can see where it is... it even zooms in to show it.
---

And come on man...
Sasuke was getting "beaten".
It's nearly impossible to mould chakra in that state... nevermind change it into Lightning, and then discharge it from your entire body.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me. Always wondered why people says that Minato was using Hiraishin atm. Thought those letters were sounds or something since tags are usually white with black words on it but nonetheless the other link have shown Minato to be rather fast with shunshin himself. Like you said, getting *beaten*. If Itachi were able to do that, I don't see any reason why the 4th couldn't especially since his speed is most likely equal or faster than Itachi's.



Shodai didnt have all 9 bijuu. he had several. And he gave them away as peace treaties. Leaving him w/o them. And once again GREATEST DOESNT MEAN THE MOST POWERFUL. He is known as the greatest for a feat. Stopping the 9-tails assult on Konoha by sacraficing his life.

Hashirama>Minato more likely when it comes to a fight. Because HE ACTUALLY TOOK ON MAdara and the 9-tails. Yet Minato had to give his life to seal it away. There is a huge difference in abilities. I doubt people even knew the events of Hashirama's battle with Madara.

No i wasnt speaking of that statement of outdating. I specifically reffered to the statement Greatest Shinobi produced from Konoha.

But since you want to play games.

Hashirama w/ Several Bijuu vs Minato. Do you really think minato would stance a chance? Specially when he ahd to give his life to defeat one. His summoning cant even handle the 1 dales for long.

Now Shodai vs Minato. I beleive Minato could handle him then. There are soo many equations you are not imputing in a situation.

Could Itachi Beat the first Hokage. Sure... I beleive he can. Can he beat Hashirama with several bijuu backing him. I highly doubt it.

Minato cant even Take care of Madara w/ the 9-tails. He got rid of the 9-tails at the cost of his life. Madara is still ready for action. And if madara did summon the 9-tails. Technically Madara beat the 4th Hokage at the cost of his Bijuu. Putting Madara above Minato.

There are missing peices of the story and gaps of information and refferences that you are missing.
<hr noshade size="1">
Where have I assumed and Speculated. YOUR WHOLE BASIS FOR MINATO EVEN WINNING HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT UNPROVEN OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS.
Well let's be fair towards Minato. He did took on the strongest bijyuu without any KG while Madara and Shodai might not have been able too. I'm not saying that those two are weak or anything but it's just easier to do stuff with KG. That's all.

[The Flash]

shaunlim right on.

But as for now, this is useless and is going no where. CSDABEST - your just assuming things now.. with your "What if".. "Well the time has passed so its outdated...."

Well for me, I'm just listening to what the manga says. As far as i know your contradicting yourself. First you say Minato > Itachi. then now their the same, or Itachi>Minato?. Its kind of sketchy. Make up your decision

But as far as i know, The manga says so, Its solid and written there. And on the other hand, the poll says so too. I'm with the majority... your just one obsessed uchiha fan outlier who's stubborn and can't willing to accept it. Sorry kid but you gotta let it go... then again your pretty young...so that's understandable

[Csdabest]

OMFG. DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT I SAID TO RAIZEN. I said the fight between them one on one could go either way.WHICH MEANS. Hold on. your intelligence must reach the following requirments.

1. You must be intelligent enough to comprehend.
2. You must be intelligent enough to anazlye.
3. You must be intelligent enough to read the whole post.
4. You must be intelligent enough understand the entirety of the post.

Alright now. THAT MEANS THAT EITHER ITACHI>MINATO or MINATO>ITACHI. STATING THE FIGHT CAN GO EITHER WAY.

Now you have failed to show where im assuming where i can just post your argument to show where you assuming. For one you tried to battle me with falty information. Saying Hashirama had all 9-tails. when it was stated to only have several and the 9-tails was in madara possession not Hashirama..

I just flipped "YOUR" little what if scenario back on you. Saying Could Minato beat Hashirama w/ several bijuu. Then I said could Minato beat shodai. Two different things.

When 3rd fought Orochimaru he fought both Shodai and the 2nd. And manage to beat them,. But guess what. DID YOU SEE ANY OF THE BIJUU Supporting Shodai. No. And there it was shown that Shodai surpassed both 1st and 2nd hokages.

Manga says i what were. You keep saying the manga proves your point. But you sound like a broken record. Cuz you some of what the manga Says about Minato has been outdated and uninformed. Those statements WHERE MADE BY CHARACTERS IN THE MANGA. Not kishi. character opinions. Characters who had no insight or how strong Itachi was or how Sasuke would grow.

The only what if i had in my post is if madara used Kyuubi. Though he disclaimed it. Itachi said he did and Jiraya hinted to it. And its been highly beleive that Madara is lying and it clear to see he is lying and twisting some stuff around. Now with that Said. If Madara attacked konoha w/ kyuubi. And Minato got killed stopping kyuubi. Then technically speaking Minato loss to Madara. Which would go to show Madara>Minato. Most likely no one knew exactly the events that happened in Madara vs Hashirama specially since it seems Madara is not even spoke of around the village.

Like I said that statement is dated. yes Minato is the greatest hokage. He can most likely beat 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. But I dont think he is beating Hashirama with several bijuu keeping up with that statement. The bijju wouldnt even be concluded w/ that statement since 1st gave them away,

Saying Minato can beat both Sasuke and Itachi two people who have suprassed greatly Minato old rival for hokage. Its crazy. specially when both have counters of Minato moves. His signature one he is known for.
[hr]
:blinkAlso Then I guess you beleive that the world is flat. Judging by the polls back then.:imslow

[Shaunlim]

Saying Minato can beat both Sasuke and Itachi two people who have suprassed greatly Minato old rival for hokage. Its crazy. specially when both have counters of Minato moves. His signature one he is known for.

Actually it's not all that crazy. Sasuke by all means have not surpassed Minato's rival(which I assume you meant Oro). And even if he did(which I seriusly disagree but this is not the thread for this) it's not that greatly. For Itachi's case, I wouldn't say surpassed greatly or surpassed at all, maybe at the same level but in any case, it is highly possible that Itachi did surpass Oro but not that greatly.
Counters for Minato's moves are just assumption of situation at the moment which I have shown you that it could not only go one direction(meaning that Minato can counter the Uchiha brothers as well).

PS: Funny that I just thought of this but some of you mentioned that both the Uchiha knows about Minato's jutsu while he did not know any of them because Minato is the hokage and also because of his title.
The thing here is they would only know that Minato is fast (due to his title) and probably not about Hiraishin so if they see chakra on kunai they might think it is just explosive tags(this i'm not sure of as it seems that some explosive tags seems to need chakra to activate them). Even if they knew that Hiraishin exist, there is also the matter of how it works and execution that they won't know about. Not forgetting that Minato is rather fast with shunshin himself without Hiraishin thus making it hard to catch up even with the Sharingan.

[The Flash]

OMFG. DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT I SAID TO RAIZEN. I said the fight between them one on one could go either way.WHICH MEANS. Hold on. your intelligence must reach the following requirments.

1. You must be intelligent enough to comprehend.
2. You must be intelligent enough to anazlye.
3. You must be intelligent enough to read the whole post.
4. You must be intelligent enough understand the entirety of the post.

Alright now. THAT MEANS THAT EITHER ITACHI>MINATO or MINATO>ITACHI. STATING THE FIGHT CAN GO EITHER WAY.

Now you have failed to show where im assuming where i can just post your argument to show where you assuming. For one you tried to battle me with falty information. Saying Hashirama had all 9-tails. when it was stated to only have several and the 9-tails was in madara possession not Hashirama..

I just flipped "YOUR" little what if scenario back on you. Saying Could Minato beat Hashirama w/ several bijuu. Then I said could Minato beat shodai. Two different things.

When 3rd fought Orochimaru he fought both Shodai and the 2nd. And manage to beat them,. But guess what. DID YOU SEE ANY OF THE BIJUU Supporting Shodai. No. And there it was shown that Shodai surpassed both 1st and 2nd hokages.

Manga says i what were. You keep saying the manga proves your point. But you sound like a broken record. Cuz you some of what the manga Says about Minato has been outdated and uninformed. Those statements WHERE MADE BY CHARACTERS IN THE MANGA. Not kishi. character opinions. Characters who had no insight or how strong Itachi was or how Sasuke would grow.

The only what if i had in my post is if madara used Kyuubi. Though he disclaimed it. Itachi said he did and Jiraya hinted to it. And its been highly beleive that Madara is lying and it clear to see he is lying and twisting some stuff around. Now with that Said. If Madara attacked konoha w/ kyuubi. And Minato got killed stopping kyuubi. Then technically speaking Minato loss to Madara. Which would go to show Madara>Minato. Most likely no one knew exactly the events that happened in Madara vs Hashirama specially since it seems Madara is not even spoke of around the village.

Like I said that statement is dated. yes Minato is the greatest hokage. He can most likely beat 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. But I dont think he is beating Hashirama with several bijuu keeping up with that statement. The bijju wouldnt even be concluded w/ that statement since 1st gave them away,

Saying Minato can beat both Sasuke and Itachi two people who have suprassed greatly Minato old rival for hokage. Its crazy. specially when both have counters of Minato moves. His signature one he is known for.
<hr noshade size="1">
:blinkAlso Then I guess you beleive that the world is flat. Judging by the polls back then.:imslow

There is no need to mock my intelligence. I assure my intelligence truly exceeds yours.

There's no need in using harsh words as well, because i missed what you said to Raizen.

And oh by the way - about Minato losing to Madara. One can think Minato lost to Madara. But madara was the one who attacked Konoha, and killed a lot of poor villagers. It is HE(minato) that defeated the tails, and protected the village from further disaster. So in my view, I think Minato succeeded, and Madara failed. Minato failed to destroy the village.

Heck if Madara was actually "physically" there - i'm pretty sure Minato would take Madara's life with him as well

[neomaster121]

yep a useless topic with not enough information mainly based on opinions can only result in people becoming agressive

when will people learn
-_-

well id say neither since we don't know all of what the 4th could do but 2 ms users seems hard to beat at the same time

[Csdabest]

Well not literally know Minato's jutsu. But know that he is extremely fast and isnt known as the yellow flash for nothing. It would be kind of ignorant of them not to find what so fast about it. Also. If they do think its an explosive tag. Then they would just stay away from it and reflect it back with a kunai or shuriken. Still rendering it useless. People dont stay near exp tags.

Itachi has shown to beat Orochimaru twice. The second time he was on his death walk. So i think it safe to say that Orochimaru was atleast Greatly surpassed by Itachi. Orochimaru didnt even want to approach Itachi pre-timeskip cuz he ddint have the power to take him out.Sasuke told team 7 that for either one of them. taking down itachi would be impossible. Now that Sasuke has shown to be a master of Genjutsu as well. Has amazing taijutsu and up to par ninjutsu. And Soem orochimaru didnt know of. Its clear to see Sasuke is stronger than Orochimaru now. Specially seeing as he has learnt alot of his jutsu. Toppled with MS that we will see soon. he should beat them

[The Flash]

ps. - good point shaunlim

[Csdabest]

There is no need to mock my intelligence. I assure my intelligence truly exceeds yours.

There's no need in using harsh words as well, because i missed what you said to Raizen.

And oh by the way - about Minato losing to Madara. One can think Minato lost to Madara. But madara was the one who attacked Konoha, and killed a lot of poor villagers. It is HE(minato) that defeated the tails, and protected the village from further disaster. So in my view, I think Minato succeeded, and Madara failed. Minato failed to destroy the village.

Heck if Madara was actually "physically" there - i'm pretty sure Minato would take Madara's life with him as well

Your not showing it. Seeing as i repeatedly said that it could go either way between Itachi and Minato and hinted to it in other posts. And blantly said it. Yet you continued to drive on the point that I was flip flopping shows I had a point of mocking it. And no harsh words were used. Caps dont create harsh words.

Who is still living and who is dead. Minato tried his best to stop the 9-tails and had to sacrafice his lives to just beat the 9-tails. Madara is still living.

If you see this as a fight. Minato couldnt get pass or live pass the 9-tails to even get to Madara. Plus Minato wasnt alone he had backup from Jounin and chuunin from his enitre village. Which makes Minato defeat even worst.

Is this an assumption I see here? If Minato wanted he "probably could" The Professor been the only one to perform that move multiple times. And thats cuz of KB. Minato has not been confirmed to even have KB. So it will most likely be a one time deal for him. 3rd performed it after Minato so he had time to do something with it Minato couldn't or had thought of.

[The Flash]

yep a useless topic with not enough information mainly based on opinions can only result in people becoming agressive

when will people learn
-_-



you said it best. Thats why i stop.. it just becomes a waste of my time. It all comes to opinion. I'll just leave this to the the people on the mangahelpers. Poll - 27-12.. nice gap..

Kishimoto did paint Minato as someone who is invincible (not literally), legendary, and feared by many villagers, and the father of the "Chosen one" who will restore balance and peace among narutoverse. And it was wise for Kishimoto to stop there.
And we only know three techniques:

Rasengan(originally intended to be an S-rank jutsu) - naruto completed it

Death God Technique - S-Rank technique - "The ok! We all die jutsu"

Hiraishin - S-rank jutsu - "Don't even blink.. or you'll die jutsu"

look how little we know, and yet how advance this minato is. Imagine if we knew a lot more. He was of the frog... so maybe he completed senjutsu. who knows! But i'll officially stop here.

I'll let cdsabest's love for the uchiha's take care of this...

[Lelo]

2 on 1 is just ridiculous. Especially when its 2 Uchihas. Minato is my favorite character and all but no way anyone can beat Sasuke and Itachi w/ MS. I believe Itachi was one of the top 5 shinobis of all time, if he had obtained EMS(which he could have) he would have surpassed Madara, Itahci said that himself. IMO, Other than Pein, Madara and Minato, Itachi was the strongest. I would put Jiraiya up there but Jiraiya has a hard time fighting Oro and Itachi manhandled Oro when he was a teen.

Itachi vs Minato would have been a great fight, if there's any fight I could choose to see it would be Itachi vs Minato. Or it could be Naruto and Minato vs Sasuke and Itachi, that would be a fair fight

[Konkun]

2 on 1 is just ridiculous. Especially when its 2 Uchihas. Minato is my favorite character and all but no way anyone can beat Sasuke and Itachi w/ MS. I believe Itachi was one of the top 5 shinobis of all time, if he had obtained EMS(which he could have) he would have surpassed Madara, Itahci said that himself. IMO, Other than Pein, Madara and Minato, Itachi was the strongest. I would put Jiraiya up there but Jiraiya has a hard time fighting Oro and Itachi manhandled Oro when he was a teen.

Itachi vs Minato would have been a great fight, if there's any fight I could choose to see it would be Itachi vs Minato. Or it could be Naruto and Minato vs Sasuke and Itachi, that would be a fair fight

What? 2-1 is ridiculous? Sandaime did a 2 on 1 with two hokages and he beat them, using Minato's technique. No doubt that Minato would rough up the Uchihas in an instant.

[DarkManSharingan32]

What? 2-1 is ridiculous? Sandaime did a 2 on 1 with two hokages and he beat them, using Minato's technique. No doubt that Minato would rough up the Uchihas in an instant.

Sandaime was getting pwnd... Then he committed suicide in order to eventually lose the fight to Orochimaru. (Remember... Oro had stabbed Sandaime in the back, and was going to die anyways)

I think that is a pretty poor example especially in this situation...
Unless your making a point that Yondaime can somehow use Shiki Fuuin, and still "win".
---

Minato would do no such thing, and honestly it would be a true test for Minato.

Two Uchiha with MS destroyed an entire clan...
Do not belittle their power just because "Minato" is in the title.

[Eddy01741]

Do mind you that probably almost all the clan were sleeping during the massacre, not that great a feat to me, silently take out the guards, kill the rest while they are sleeping.

Honestly, like I said a couple pages ago and like neo just restated, this is a topic full of fail due to the fact that we don't anywhere near enough (you can only speculate from a couple techinques he has and his title), and I mean, for gods sake, we don't even know the limits of Itachi's power either.

[Shaunlim]

Well not literally know Minato's jutsu. But know that he is extremely fast and isnt known as the yellow flash for nothing. It would be kind of ignorant of them not to find what so fast about it. Also. If they do think its an explosive tag. Then they would just stay away from it and reflect it back with a kunai or shuriken. Still rendering it useless. People dont stay near exp tags.

Itachi has shown to beat Orochimaru twice. The second time he was on his death walk. So i think it safe to say that Orochimaru was atleast Greatly surpassed by Itachi. Orochimaru didnt even want to approach Itachi pre-timeskip cuz he ddint have the power to take him out. Sasuke told team 7 that for either one of them. taking down itachi would be impossible. Now that Sasuke has shown to be a master of Genjutsu as well. Has amazing taijutsu and up to par ninjutsu. And Soem orochimaru didnt know of. Its clear to see Sasuke is stronger than Orochimaru now. Specially seeing as he has learnt alot of his jutsu. Toppled with MS that we will see soon. he should beat them
Well my point about those explosive tags was to say that the Uchiha bros won't know that Minato would be teleporting behind them being summoned by that kunai.
Although you might a different opinion on this but I always thought of it as Oro not wanting to go against Itachi as he is not strong enough to take his body(because the sharingan basically destroys his whole changing body dimension) and not as Oro being weaker than Itachi. The second, was kinda lame actually, Oro didn't do anything basically and it wasn't really a fair fight for either side.
What Sasuke said was purely based on what he thought at the moment or something. I mean he did went after Itachi even though that he stated both Oro and him couldn't take him on. Don't really know why would call Sasuke a master of genjutsu really....his genjutsu showdown with Itachi ended with Itachi having one extra layer of it compared to Sasuke, if anything he just broke out of Tsukiyomi which doesn't mean he is suddenly a master of genjutsu. Breaking out of a genjutsu and casting one is totally different. Not to mention, Sasuke's genjutsu works through eye contact which I doubt would work if Oro would stop staring at his eyes due to his fetish towards the Sharingan ~_~. As for the taijutsu and ninjutsu, those two are debatable but seeing as Oro is older, he should still have something up on his sleeve and more experience meaning he can still counter taijutsu.

[Raizen]

Then I guess Orochimaru can't either. -.-
And can you please explain how a summon happens... by chakra alone.

Once more, because it makes no sense when you explain it that way.
Sorry, let me explain better. The seal on sasuke's hand is similar to the seal on oro in the sannin battle. Since oro can't use his arms, he has kabuto spread his blood on it. What that seal does is absorb chakra overtime so it is stored chakra, sort of like a reserve. What I am saying is the seal was what enabled sasuke to summon manda b/c of the collection of chakra overtime, little by little. I don't know if you understand but what I mean is that sasuke at 100% may not have enough chakra for a boss so he relies on the seal b/c together with his full chakra and the chakra stored overtime (which could be equivalent to his max chakra) he was able to summon manda




First of all...
Kunai move in a straight line... How are they EVER going to surround anybody?

Unless Sasuke and Itachi allow Minato to Shunshin around them with Kunai attacks, and stand still while he does so... your whole theory is basically unusable.

And as far as Tool-work goes... the Uchiha's have manga evidence that they are among the top-tier.

If Minato is going to try and toss Kunai around... he might end up looking like a reversed-Porcupine.
---

I was rushing so my reply was sloppy. I know the trajectory of a kunai is straight. When I said surround I meant like the kunais envelope itachi after they are thrown. The kunais aren't meant to hit them, but to provide many access points for minato to attack
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/19/
Just imagine it like this but with the uchiha in the middle and the kunai are heading for the ground. That is what I mean by surrounding the enemy. The kunais are flying down around the uchihas but not actually hitting them. But that is enough for mianto to move repeatedly from one kunai to another attacking instantly in multiple areas, giving him an element of surprise b/c they do not know which kunai he will appear from.
Hopefully that made sense :p


If Minato has enough time to use a wind attack... Sasuke has enough time to preform a fire attacks... and Itachi... has too much time.
Not if the wind chakra is enveloping his hand allowing him to cut chidori like butter and kill sasuke right after he appears from any of his thrown kunais w/ hiraishin

And we werent talking abut Hiraishin... but what? He's going to launch a Kunai into a Nagashi or fire attack? Sounds like he's preparing for suicide under your plan...
What are u talking about? If you are talking about how minato will dodge attacks. He can safely place a kunai hundreds af yards away, allowing him to escape from danger at the perfect moment and then reappear again in front of the uchihas, surprising them and finish them



While it is certainly not that powerful... Minato probably can't auto-escape it.

Giving Sasuke and Itachi TIME... which is certainly more dangerous than you give these guys credit for.
Gen may seem long but it is like a millisecond in real time. ex Tsukyomi. Once minato breaks it, sasuke will have no chance to attack. And this is a speed battle, no way is minato going to get caught in an eye gen




http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/

No seals, and no warning.
It can be spammed... but Sasuke won't use it in that manner.

A defense for multiple opponents?
Seems like a perfect strategy against KB... for even Naruto, nevermind Minato.
I already told u how minato will find a way around the chidori nagashi. And so did shaunlim
[hr]
Oh and Csdabest, the so called "outdated" info on the flash u stated is not really outdated. J-man made this claim believing that itachi was capable of taking out his whole clan, when in actuality he did not. He had help from Madara and even sasuke stated itachi is not strong enough to take out the whole clan.

Even w/ the false info that increased the strength of itachi, J-man still stated as minato being stronger. He then goes on to say no one w/ those skills has been born since: not sasuke, not itachi, no one. Also kakashi who is wary of itachi's strength and power and reputation stated that no one has surpassed the 4th.

And while the 1st is strong, it is mostly due to his mokuton. I say the 4th has most definitely surpassed him as well. And if the 1st> Madara and the 4th >=1st then the 4th >Madara. I know it is hard for u to believe that the uchihas that u worship and pray to every night is weaker in comparison but it is the truth. i know it is hard to accept but u just have to brace it. I'll pray for u :p

[Destin82]

2 on 1 is just ridiculous. Especially when its 2 Uchihas. Minato is my favorite character and all but no way anyone can beat Sasuke and Itachi w/ MS. I believe Itachi was one of the top 5 shinobis of all time, if he had obtained EMS(which he could have) he would have surpassed Madara, Itahci said that himself. IMO, Other than Pein, Madara and Minato, Itachi was the strongest. I would put Jiraiya up there but Jiraiya has a hard time fighting Oro and Itachi manhandled Oro when he was a teen.

In all honesty, Jiraiya was never trying to harm Orochimaru. The same way you see Naruto get listless and somber when he comes across Sasuke. Jiraiya was more realistic or maybe had given up on Orochimaru long ago, but it didn't mean he didn't care a lot for his former friend.

Also Jiraiya is a terrible victim of Kishimoto's fickle attention to characters not named Sasuke. He looked downright mediocre throughout the majority of the cannon only to get quite the swan song against Pein. In all honesty, who knew that Jiraiya had all those insane jutsus in his arsenal until his fight with Pein, a fight he would have won if not for Pein's real body using phoenix downs from somewhere.

That's why I have trouble taking this polls Uchiha proponents seriously. For the longest time we (Naruto fans) viewed the first hokage as some sort of throw in a during a bout between Orochimaru/Sarutobi that the third dealt with pretty easily, but later on it's shown that he fought an in his prime Madara that had already achieved EMS at the time and came out victorious. In the same light we're supposed to view a character that was supposedly the greatest Hokage (yet) in the series, against a character that doesn't even lay claim to greatest Uchiha in the series and his littler brother, who currently isn't close to being a difference maker in this battle. What am I not seeing here?

People writing battle scenarios, I can't even begin to bother dissecting those in good conscience. When Itachi died, I think it was pretty obvious he laid all his cards on the table. Susanoo being one hell of a joker, don't get me wrong, wow that was some game winning power. But can anybody really think all the fourth had were hiraishin, rassengan, kuyichose and the basics at his disposal? Didn't it look like Jiraiya had even less of an arsenal until Kishimoto actually gave him a decent fight.

Of course it's all up to debate since Kishimoto actually hasn't revealed much information about the fourth, except the only thing he tends to elaborate on was the legacy he created; and in that case he leaves no superlative unused. To the reader, Minato is supposed to be the zenith of greatness in this series that only Naruto will over come.

It's shame there's no "over nine thousand" ranking system in Naruto to make these debates cut and dry, but really I don't see Minato losing to any character currently introduced in this series at this point in time (ie. obviously Naruto overtakes him eventually) doubling the numbers of opponents in my mind doesn't help either unless you're dealing with strictly Madara, Pein, Itachi, Kakashi, and Jiraiya as I think in two on one against an opponent like Minato, the weaker one can actually be used as a tool against the first, no knock on Sasuke he's just has to catch up, the potential is certainly there.

[Csdabest]

Sorry, let me explain better. The seal on sasuke's hand is similar to the seal on oro in the sannin battle. Since oro can't use his arms, he has kabuto spread his blood on it. What that seal does is absorb chakra overtime so it is stored chakra, sort of like a reserve. What I am saying is the seal was what enabled sasuke to summon manda b/c of the collection of chakra overtime, little by little. I don't know if you understand but what I mean is that sasuke at 100% may not have enough chakra for a boss so he relies on the seal b/c together with his full chakra and the chakra stored overtime (which could be equivalent to his max chakra) he was able to summon manda




I was rushing so my reply was sloppy. I know the trajectory of a kunai is straight. When I said surround I meant like the kunais envelope itachi after they are thrown. The kunais aren't meant to hit them, but to provide many access points for minato to attack
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/73/19/
Just imagine it like this but with the uchiha in the middle and the kunai are heading for the ground. That is what I mean by surrounding the enemy. The kunais are flying down around the uchihas but not actually hitting them. But that is enough for mianto to move repeatedly from one kunai to another attacking instantly in multiple areas, giving him an element of surprise b/c they do not know which kunai he will appear from.
Hopefully that made sense :p


Not if the wind chakra is enveloping his hand allowing him to cut chidori like butter and kill sasuke right after he appears from any of his thrown kunais w/ hiraishin

What are u talking about? If you are talking about how minato will dodge attacks. He can safely place a kunai hundreds af yards away, allowing him to escape from danger at the perfect moment and then reappear again in front of the uchihas, surprising them and finish them



Gen may seem long but it is like a millisecond in real time. ex Tsukyomi. Once minato breaks it, sasuke will have no chance to attack. And this is a speed battle, no way is minato going to get caught in an eye gen




I already told u how minato will find a way around the chidori nagashi. And so did shaunlim
<hr noshade size="1">
Oh and Csdabest, the so called "outdated" info on the flash u stated is not really outdated. J-man made this claim believing that itachi was capable of taking out his whole clan, when in actuality he did not. He had help from Madara and even sasuke stated itachi is not strong enough to take out the whole clan.

Even w/ the false info that increased the strength of itachi, J-man still stated as minato being stronger. He then goes on to say no one w/ those skills has been born since: not sasuke, not itachi, no one. Also kakashi who is wary of itachi's strength and power and reputation stated that no one has surpassed the 4th.

And while the 1st is strong, it is mostly due to his mokuton. I say the 4th has most definitely surpassed him as well. And if the 1st> Madara and the 4th >=1st then the 4th >Madara. I know it is hard for u to believe that the uchihas that u worship and pray to every night is weaker in comparison but it is the truth. i know it is hard to accept but u just have to brace it. I'll pray for u :p

You used ABC logic to back your claim. You fail.

Speciallay Since Madara Attacked Konoha With the Kyuubi which Minato had to fight. Which lead to a dead Minato and a alive and kicking Madara.

Even your comparison is dated. hashirama beat Madara 100 years. Ago Madara has had 100 years of progression and time to build and Develope. It Seems by your ranking Minato is a 100 years to early to beat Madara.

And also. You misunderstand. Jiraya had no idea how strong Itachi was or how strong the MS was. he didnt even know what Amaterasu was. So Jiraya couldnt have made that statement accurately being unaware of Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi and Especially Susano'o which i see as superior than Shiki Fuujin cuz it doesnt kill you. And you just basically admitted my point. Statements can become outdated as time passes in the manga and characters develope and more informations is revealed.

[Shaunlim]

Even your comparison is dated. hashirama beat Madara 100 years. Ago Madara has had 100 years of progression and time to build and Develope. It Seems by your ranking Minato is a 100 years to early to beat Madara.
Well actually, Itachi said Madara was weaker than he used to be so...and with that 100years his chakra capactity probably decreased as well. The third did and it was not even 100 years so I don't even want to imagine what 100years would do to you.

I think we have all been wrong when talk about who's stronger. Although kakashi knew about Itachi's amateratsu(which seriusly is rather strong) and about his own MS, yet he said no one has surpassed the 4th yet(that's the impression since he said that he believes naruto would be the only one able to). Clearly something is wrong here as Kakashi's and Itachi's MS jutsu is somewhat rather powerful and could probably take down the 4th.

Maybe we have all been taking the whole strong thing wrongly. I mean if having strong jutsus makes you strong then by all means Naruto would have been almost god-like post-time skip. Able to summon Gamabunta(one of the strongest summons introduced so far), able to use KB(a high ranking jutsu) and even rasengan(a higher ranking jutsu).

But that is not the case, since anyone at or above Kakashi's level would be able to take him down and they are not even shown to have any stronger jutsu e.g. Kakashi(strongest from him post-time skip was his raikiri). It's probably the overall you know. Speed, strength, strategy making, jutsu strength and KG. I mean Shikimaru's jutsu level is no where near an akatsuki member's level yet he was able to win Hidan. This just shows that even you have the most powerful ninjutsu doesn't = you are stronger than another person.

As for the 4th dying from the Kyuubi attack, it could have been a draw between those two untill the 4th decided that continuing the fight is pointless and would probably ended with his loss so he decided to use Shiki Fuujin. The only reason why Madara and Shodai was able to take on Kyuubi was because of their KG. Take away that from the equation, I don't even think they would survive let alone defeat it.

[Csdabest]

Itachi never said that he has gotten weaker. Just he was a former shell of himself. Which could mean alot of things. That madara he told in his story seems like the one to take on battles head on and front stage. Now he plays things from the background. And Itachi still refers to himself as the Invincible Immortal. And that his powers and his eyes are intact. So nothing really suggests he gotten weaker.

[nat]

That statement means he is a sore loser, one who fled after he was humiliated. Not that Madara lost power. In the translation it was left ambiguous, that's why people are presuming he is weaker.

Just take it from Franckie :D




The "pathetic shell" is a mistranslation. Itachi says 「今のマダラは負け犬だ...」 (Ima no Madara wa makeinu da...). Which means "Nowadays, Madara is 'defeated dog' ".

"Defeated dog" is a figure of speech, referring to a person who runs away from a fight they just lost 'with their tail between their legs'. In other words, someone who cannot cope well with their loss. A sore loser.

It has nothing to do with Madara's power, just with his mindset.

Madara chose to do things the unconventional way, he doesn't do head on fights anymore.

As for the topic of the thread. Minato is great as we have all said, but the insane level of the brothers who left Konoha and learned also from the outside world is not to be discarded. For me, Minato doesn't even stand a chance against them let alone discuss what technique they should use.

Minato was praised by Kakashi and J-man 15 years ago, people move on and learn new thing. Kakashi at his current level is much much stronger than before and with that comes a new perspective. Itachi was praised by both a warlord (Madara) and the twisted Sannin, who are no weaklings at all.

For me a statement from Madara in terms of power weighs more than Kakashi, and the reason is obvious why. One played with Bijuu and fought with monsters on equal grounds (the first).

Off-topic, I think each generation in Konoha grows weaker not stronger. Look from where they began, taming bijuu by individual talent to seeing the wind affinity as ZOMG,BBQ! PWNSOME! Their main Hokage is much weaker than the previous. and the main candidate is Kakashi, not to diss him or anything, but he tires too quickly and with enemies as homicidal as Sasuke, he won't last....

[Shaunlim]

As for the topic of the thread. Minato is great as we have all said, but the insane level of the brothers who left Konoha and learned also from the outside world is not to be discarded. For me, Minato doesn't even stand a chance against them let alone discuss what technique they should use.
That's your opinion on the matter and I respect it. However everyone has their own opinion thus this debate. Those that supported the Uchiha have shown evidence and reasoning how Minato would just die like that and those that supported Minato have shown their own reasoning and evidence.


Minato was praised by Kakashi and J-man 15 years ago, people move on and learn new thing. Kakashi at his current level is much much stronger than before and with that comes a new perspective. Itachi was praised by both a warlord (Madara) and the twisted Sannin, who are no weaklings at all.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/12/ <---clearly stated by Kakashi which at that time have already acquired the MS meaning even with MS he still have not surpassed the 4th. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/ <----Jiraiya still admiring Minato even though he had seen Amateratsu from Itachi.


For me a statement from Madara in terms of power weighs more than Kakashi, and the reason is obvious why. One played with Bijuu and fought with monsters on equal grounds (the first).
Madara only played with Kyuubi as far as we know and he was only able to do it because of his MS not because he actually overpowered the beast or anything.



Off-topic, I think each generation in Konoha grows weaker not stronger. Look from where they began, taming bijuu by individual talent to seeing the wind affinity as ZOMG,BBQ! PWNSOME! Their main Hokage is much weaker than the previous. and the main candidate is Kakashi, not to diss him or anything, but he tires too quickly and with enemies as homicidal as Sasuke, he won't last....
Only 1 person from Konoha was ever able to tame Bijyuus and that was the First and as I have mentioned he was only able to do it due to his own KG not because he was actually so strong until he overpowered them. No one ever said that wind affinity was a great talent or such a big deal out of it. It was just said to be rare, that's all.
It's not fair to judge Tsunade as we have not seen her at 100%(excluding the fact that she is a medic not a fighter whose medical skills are unsurpassed). And the previous hokage was the 4th which was said to be so strong that no one has surpassed him yet.....and if you meant the 3rd, we still haven't seen 100% out of each so it is hard to compare.
Kakashi although has a smaller chakra capacity, doesn't mean that he would die from Sasuke and by all means Sasuke is not that homicidal as you think....There are more to a battle than chakra capacity, if it weren't for that all the jinchuriki won't be capture at all......

[The Flash]

That's your opinion on the matter and I respect it. However everyone has their own opinion thus this debate. Those that supported the Uchiha have shown evidence and reasoning how Minato would just die like that and those that supported Minato have shown their own reasoning and evidence.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/12/ <---clearly stated by Kakashi which at that time have already acquired the MS meaning even with MS he still have not surpassed the 4th. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/ <----Jiraiya still admiring Minato even though he had seen Amateratsu from Itachi.


Madara only played with Kyuubi as far as we know and he was only able to do it because of his MS not because he actually overpowered the beast or anything.



Only 1 person from Konoha was ever able to tame Bijyuus and that was the First and as I have mentioned he was only able to do it due to his own KG not because he was actually so strong until he overpowered them. No one ever said that wind affinity was a great talent or such a big deal out of it. It was just said to be rare, that's all.
It's not fair to judge Tsunade as we have not seen her at 100%(excluding the fact that she is a medic not a fighter whose medical skills are unsurpassed). And the previous hokage was the 4th which was said to be so strong that no one has surpassed him yet.....and if you meant the 3rd, we still haven't seen 100% out of each so it is hard to compare.
Kakashi although has a smaller chakra capacity, doesn't mean that he would die from Sasuke and by all means Sasuke is not that homicidal as you think....There are more to a battle than chakra capacity, if it weren't for that all the jinchuriki won't be capture at all......

Hey I thought I was done. But i have to say thanks to Shaunlim with this post. With my other previous postst in regards of 'Minato being admired by Jiraiya' - I assumed that you folks had remember the awe-inspiring discussion between Jiraiya and Tsunade... but apparently not.

Also good point about Kakashi stating, "The only that will surpass minato is you naruto".

That is indeed solid evidence that ends the "Dated Comments"

Well said Shaunlim

[Shaunlim]

Hey I thought I was done. But i have to say thanks to Shaunlim with this post. With my other previous postst in regards of 'Minato being admired by Jiraiya' - I assumed that you folks had remember the awe-inspiring discussion between Jiraiya and Tsunade... but apparently not.

Also good point about Kakashi stating, "The only that will surpass minato is you naruto".

That is indeed solid evidence that ends the "Dated Comments"

Well said Shaunlim
Thanks =)

[Konkun]

Sandaime was getting pwnd... Then he committed suicide in order to eventually lose the fight to Orochimaru. (Remember... Oro had stabbed Sandaime in the back, and was going to die anyways)

I think that is a pretty poor example especially in this situation...
Unless your making a point that Yondaime can somehow use Shiki Fuuin, and still "win".
---

Minato would do no such thing, and honestly it would be a true test for Minato.

Two Uchiha with MS destroyed an entire clan...
Do not belittle their power just because "Minato" is in the title.

The point is Minato surpassed Sandaime and was given the Hokage tittle, the same Sandaime who managed to stop 2 Hokages + a Sannin in his 60's. Surely the Uchihas bros are not in the same league as the Hokages. I think you have taken the Hokage tittle too lightly.

[Raizen]

You used ABC logic to back your claim. You fail.

Speciallay Since Madara Attacked Konoha With the Kyuubi which Minato had to fight. Which lead to a dead Minato and a alive and kicking Madara.

Even your comparison is dated. hashirama beat Madara 100 years. Ago Madara has had 100 years of progression and time to build and Develope. It Seems by your ranking Minato is a 100 years to early to beat Madara.

And also. You misunderstand. Jiraya had no idea how strong Itachi was or how strong the MS was. he didnt even know what Amaterasu was. So Jiraya couldnt have made that statement accurately being unaware of Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi and Especially Susano'o which i see as superior than Shiki Fuujin cuz it doesnt kill you. And you just basically admitted my point. Statements can become outdated as time passes in the manga and characters develope and more informations is revealed.
U seriously need to learn the definition of the word "outdated", b/c obviously u don't know what it means. U act as if MS techniques are so god-like that one hit and u lose. That logic there is flawed. U tell me my logic is flawed only b/c u have no counter for what I have said. What a sad, sad person.

Everything else I have to say, shaunlim has already said it

[The Flash]

U seriously need to learn the definition of the word "outdated", b/c obviously u don't know what it means. U act as if MS techniques are so god-like that one hit and u lose. That logic there is flawed. U tell me my logic is flawed only b/c u have no counter for what I have said. What a sad, sad person.

Everything else I have to say, shaunlim has already said it

Well said Raizen.

The three defenders; Raizen, Shaunlim, and The Flash, lol :p

33-14.. nice gap.

[kkck]

It was said that the original candidate for hokage was Orochimaru, but sarutobi saw he was evil and decided minato was a second good choice. In other words sarutobi settled for minato since he couldn't give orochimaru the seat of hokage.

[Raizen]

It was said that the original candidate for hokage was Orochimaru, but sarutobi saw he was evil and decided minato was a second good choice. In other words sarutobi settled for minato since he couldn't give orochimaru the seat of hokage.
Actually as he was teaching oro, he had HOPES that oro would become hokage but later he found a more suitable candidate that would protect and preserve the village. Minato is no second choice.

[Shaunlim]

It was said that the original candidate for hokage was Orochimaru, but sarutobi saw he was evil and decided minato was a second good choice. In other words sarutobi settled for minato since he couldn't give orochimaru the seat of hokage.
Can't remember which chapter but Anko clearly states that Oro wouldn't attack the village if the 4th is still alive. Since Anko was Oro's student, she must at least know how strong her master is......Not to mention both Kakashi and Jiraiya even know how strong Oro is still praised the 4th for not being surpassed yet.

PS: this is off topic but how to you actually thank someone for their post ??

[3shinkyo3]

PS: this is off topic but how to you actually thank someone for their post ??

Theres a thanks button on the bottom right of the post box.

Personally i don't know enough about minato to make a fair decision

[Baron Hugenstein]

Can't remember which chapter but Anko clearly states that Oro wouldn't attack the village if the 4th is still alive. Since Anko was Oro's student, she must at least know how strong her master is......Not to mention both Kakashi and Jiraiya even know how strong Oro is still praised the 4th for not being surpassed yet.

PS: this is off topic but how to you actually thank someone for their post ??

After Orochimaru left, he became strong, due to his exposure with Akatsuki's members; and he must have learned at least another two or three new Jutsu. It isn't possiblt to know how strong Orochimaru became if he wasn't in Konoha to be monitored.
Plus, we don't know if what Orochimaru would hav done if Minato was sill alive, probably would have waited a bit more and attacked with no difference.



There is a button on the far right, it is labeled "Thanks".
[hr]

Actually as he was teaching oro, he had HOPES that oro would become hokage but later he found a more suitable candidate that would protect and preserve the village. Minato is no second choice.

Not really, The third wanted Orochimaru to be the Hokage. Oro's ambitions were sick that is why he decided to say to. That was the only reason Sandaime abandoned the idea of Orochimaru being Hokage. I can't find the chapter, but Sandaime did mention that Orochimaru had great talent and potential.
Minato was second best thing to Sandaime at the time.
[hr]

U seriously need to learn the definition of the word "outdated", b/c obviously u don't know what it means. U act as if MS techniques are so god-like that one hit and u lose. That logic there is flawed. U tell me my logic is flawed only b/c u have no counter for what I have said. What a sad, sad person.

Everything else I have to say, shaunlim has already said it

hehe, every point you mentioned in your previous post depended on the Uchiha bros not using their eyes and simply stand still. I have said this many time; the sharingan can see where the Kunais are, there is no easy hiding nor there is any point in attacking. Just like chess, the pieces are there, you just have to find what the enemy is doing, which by Itachi's and Sasuke's intelligence isn't a hard thing to do

No, your logic is flawed. You are overestimated Minato, and using unconfirmed theories or probably opinions. Since when did Minato have wind Jutsu; and only the Hirashin in this case might work, the Rasngan has no c. Plus Kakashi and Jiraiya said these things about Minato because they know what Minato is capable of while they can't possibly know what Itachi is capable of, nor how much Orochimaru has grown in experience and power; for somebody like Orochimaru, it is not possible that he will join an organization like Akatsuki and not learn Jutsus and gain experince, and the same can be accounted for Itachi


There is no way around Chidori Nagashi, it is similar to Neji's Kaiten.
Itachi never fought at 100% in any battle we have seen thus far, he always held back, so you can't simply say how strong he really is if you don't see his true strength.

hehe, The 1st was never surpassed, not by the 3rd nor by Minato. a KG is a right and a gift, they are counted when comparing a character to another. The only reason the 3rd won against the two hokages is because of a forbidden jutsu that would have killed him no matter he does. He couldn't have done it otherwise. Even Madara himself couldn't surpass Hashirama; and both were legends and monsters in their time; Both could tame Bijuus at will, both could rule other clans if they wanted to, and most likely they did.

There was a reason that the standard way to defeat an Uchiha was "if 1on1 run, if 2on1 take the back"; this was stated by somebody as experienced as the third, so avoiding eye contact isn't an option. This was said about the average Uchiha, in this case there is two very talented Uchiha against a talented non-Uchiha. By the rules and tactics of Naruto-fights, who will win??(hint: the Bros)

[Shaunlim]

After Orochimaru left, he became strong, due to his exposure with Akatsuki's members; and he must have learned at least another two or three new Jutsu. It isn't possiblt to know how strong Orochimaru became if he wasn't in Konoha to be monitored.
Plus, we don't know if what Orochimaru would hav done if Minato was sill alive, probably would have waited a bit more and attacked with no difference.
No real evidence of whether Orochimaru became stronger or weaker after he left Konoha and it is really up to speculation but if anything even if he did became stronger or weaker, Anko clearly saw him and fought him again in the forest of death and yet she said the presence of the 4th would change the situation. No sense for Oro to wait if he could just attack there and then, if he wanted to wait then probably he was worried about the 4th.




There is a button on the far right, it is labeled "Thanks".
<hr noshade size="1">
Thanks but it seems that I must be missing something since I can't see the button.



Not really, The third wanted Orochimaru to be the Hokage. Oro's ambitions were sick that is why he decided to say to. That was the only reason Sandaime abandoned the idea of Orochimaru being Hokage. I can't find the chapter, but Sandaime did mention that Orochimaru had great talent and potential.
Minato was second best thing to Sandaime at the time.
<hr noshade size="1">
Minato was not necessarily the second best thing to Sandaime at the time. He could be as strong or even stronger than Orochimaru. Well, the 4th was praised by Jiraiya and Kakashi as well. Besides, the 3rd did not want Orochimaru to become the Hokage(he just hoped that Oro would one day take over his will of fire), instead he wanted Jiraiya to succeed him as mentioned here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/11/. Seeing that Jiraiya was meant to succeed the third and yet praised the 4th means something.



hehe, every point you mentioned in your previous post depended on the Uchiha bros not using their eyes and simply stand still. I have said this many time; the sharingan can see where the Kunais are, there is no easy hiding nor there is any point in attacking. Just like chess, the pieces are there, you just have to find what the enemy is doing, which by Itachi's and Sasuke's intelligence isn't a hard thing to do
If there are around 100 kunais at the floor, sure they might know where he can go but that doesn't mean they can know where he would go, get what I mean? Although similar to chess, but you have to remember that chess has a certain pattern and rule that cannot be broken such as this piece moves this way and such. Thus it is not as easy to find out where the 4th would appear as it is predicting a chess game. As mentioned before by me, even if they use their eyes, there are weakness that could be exploited. Another thing, as I have mentioned earlier in my previous post, the Uchiha bros doesn't know about Hiraishin just his nickname and even if they did, they still won't know how the jutsu works.



Plus Kakashi and Jiraiya said these things about Minato because they know what Minato is capable of while they can't possibly know what Itachi is capable of, nor how much Orochimaru has grown in experience and power; for somebody like Orochimaru, it is not possible that he will join an organization like Akatsuki and not learn Jutsus and gain experince, and the same can be accounted for Itachi
Kakashi and Jiraiya both fought Itachi before and Kakashi got attacked with Tsukiyomi while Jiraiya witness the Amateratsu and those two are two of Itachi's strongest jutsu meaning they do know what Itachi is capable of but most likely at 100% but at least 80% at the very least. Jiraiya fought Oro after he left Konoha although they were both handicap but it can still be used as an outline of how much a person has improved.


There is no way around Chidori Nagashi, it is similar to Neji's Kaiten.
Itachi never fought at 100% in any battle we have seen thus far, he always held back, so you can't simply say how strong he really is if you don't see his true strength.
There is more than 1 ways to counter Nagashi I assure you. Unlike Kaiten, it doesn't deflect at physical attack meaning kunai and shuriken can still damage him so it's not that perfect in the sense of defense. Another thing is Sasuke can't keep using this because:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case). Seriously, if Sasuke were to spam Nagashi to prevent any close range, all the other person have to do is spam shuriken to him to counter, no need for any complex/powerful jutsu. As for Itachi not being at 100% for most of the time, as mentioned Itachi shown two of his most powerful jutsus already so it could have been at least 80% already while all we have seen from the 4th was not even 1%(since we didn't even see him really fight)and yet is able to cause so much trouble to the Uchiha bros.



hehe, The 1st was never surpassed, not by the 3rd nor by Minato. a KG is a right and a gift, they are counted when comparing a character to another. The only reason the 3rd won against the two hokages is because of a forbidden jutsu that would have killed him no matter he does. He couldn't have done it otherwise. Even Madara himself couldn't surpass Hashirama; and both were legends and monsters in their time; Both could tame Bijuus at will, both could rule other clans if they wanted to, and most likely they did.
The 3rd actually blew the 1st and 2nd with explosive tags but they regenerated as they were mummies at that time so.......and the 3rd didn't die from using Shiki Fuujin against the 1st and 2nd but against Oro.


There was a reason that the standard way to defeat an Uchiha was "if 1on1 run, if 2on1 take the back"; this was stated by somebody as experienced as the third, so avoiding eye contact isn't an option. This was said about the average Uchiha, in this case there is two very talented Uchiha against a talented non-Uchiha. By the rules and tactics of Naruto-fights, who will win??(hint: the Bros)
Stated by someone who has retired and probably didn't even fought the 3rd ninja war which says a lot about how her experienced advice is not up to date. Gai managed to make it an option and was successful against Kakashi(although not an Uchiha but still with the sharingan)who would gave those average Uchiha a run for their money. Even Itachi said to Kisame not to underestimate Gai.

[Baron Hugenstein]

No real evidence of whether Orochimaru became stronger or weaker after he left Konoha and it is really up to speculation but if anything even if he did became stronger or weaker, Anko clearly saw him and fought him again in the forest of death and yet she said the presence of the 4th would change the situation. No sense for Oro to wait if he could just attack there and then, if he wanted to wait then probably he was worried about the 4th.

Well, it is logical if you think about it; a person whose life's goal is to learn all the Jutsus in the world, hence his immortality jutsu. He went to an organization that is filled with S-class ninja. He must have picked up at least a Jutsu or two. Besides, the initiation for the organization seems to be very tough, as Sasori was forced to use himself. And Deidara had to fight for his life, if he lost he joins.


Thanks but it seems that I must be missing something since I can't see the button.

Hmm, look down, where is the Quote button is; next to it there should be three other buttons; the last button on the right is the Thanks. Of course look at another person's post.

If it doesn't work, then scroll down the page as much as you can. You will find a list-tap that will contain colors, for themes for the website.
Chose whichever color you like, then try looking again for the Thanks button.


Minato was not necessarily the second best thing to Sandaime at the time. He could be as strong or even stronger than Orochimaru. Well, the 4th was praised by Jiraiya and Kakashi as well. Besides, the 3rd did not want Orochimaru to become the Hokage(he just hoped that Oro would one day take over his will of fire), instead he wanted Jiraiya to succeed him as mentioned here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/11/. Seeing that Jiraiya was meant to succeed the third and yet praised the 4th means something.

But that praise was made because Minato was young when he became Hokage. Jiraiya and Kakashi did fight Itachi, but they never fought him when he wasn't holding back. Plus, when Itachi fought Kakashi, it wasn't that he couldn't kill, he needed a victim to send the threat message to Danzou: Last panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/06/) and First panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/07/)


If there are around 100 kunais at the floor, sure they might know where he can go but that doesn't mean they can know where he would go, get what I mean? Although similar to chess, but you have to remember that chess has a certain pattern and rule that cannot be broken such as this piece moves this way and such. Thus it is not as easy to find out where the 4th would appear as it is predicting a chess game. As mentioned before by me, even if they use their eyes, there are weakness that could be exploited. Another thing, as I have mentioned earlier in my previous post, the Uchiha bros doesn't know about Hiraishin just his nickname and even if they did, they still won't know how the jutsu works.

Well, when i said like Chess, the chess rules were never in my point.


Just like chess, the pieces are there

Think about, if Minato throws three kunai, one hits a tree, another hits a rock and the third hits the ground. If Minato wants to go the one on the tree, don't you think that Kunai will use more Chakra and stand out between the other three. Sure it takes a second to move for Hirashin, but the reaction speed of Sasuke and Itachi is very fast. They would see where he is going next. Even if they don't know how the Jutsu works, they can easily figure it out.


Kakashi and Jiraiya both fought Itachi before and Kakashi got attacked with Tsukiyomi while Jiraiya witness the Amateratsu and those two are two of Itachi's strongest jutsu meaning they do know what Itachi is capable of but most likely at 100% but at least 80% at the very least. Jiraiya fought Oro after he left Konoha although they were both handicap but it can still be used as an outline of how much a person has improved.


The sannin fight isn't a battle to see if Orochimaru improved. He couldn't have used his hands thus his Jutsus were locked, Jiraiya began the fight with little Chakra.

No, they saw their effects. Tsukyoumi was seen by Kakashi, but Itachi never went into the MS mode, Tsukyuomi in MS mode is probably stronger and much faster to cast. Jiraya saw Itachi's back when he used Tsukyuomi on Sasuke, he only saw the effects of it; and for Amatersu, he didn't even see Itachi use it, all he saw was the black fire, he didn't see where it came from, and that matters a lot.



There is more than 1 ways to counter Nagashi I assure you. Unlike Kaiten, it doesn't deflect at physical attack meaning kunai and shuriken can still damage him so it's not that perfect in the sense of defense. Another thing is Sasuke can't keep using this because:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/14/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/15/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/07/, if chidori nagashi could be used so easily, I don't see any reason why Sasuke didn't use it at that point. You could argue that it was because Sasuke was in genjutsu but if that was the case then Sasuke wouldn't haven been able to fight off Itachi for a moment during the genjutsu using his CS2 wings.
Mind you the 4th's shunshin is faster than Itachi's as shown http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ (you can see the zoom part meaning it wasn't Hiraishin since Hiraishin is a space/time ninjutsu.) Sasuke would be surprised to the point that his reaction would be slowed down(since the same thing happened to him during Itachi's case). Seriously, if Sasuke were to spam Nagashi to prevent any close range, all the other person have to do is spam shuriken to him to counter, no need for any complex/powerful jutsu. As for Itachi not being at 100% for most of the time, as mentioned Itachi shown two of his most powerful jutsus already so it could have been at least 80% already while all we have seen from the 4th was not even 1%(since we didn't even see him really fight)and yet is able to cause so much trouble to the Uchiha bros.

No, even Yamato's wood was shattered, CN is an ultimate defense, to learn it weakness, Minato must go through at least two or three times, which would fry him the first time.
As has been said before, The Uchiha are the "Spartans" of the Narutoverse. They evolve during true battle, they gain their sharingan by live through life-threatening situation and they evolve it during more life-threatening situation. You are sadly underestimating the Uchiha, Pride and ego come for a reason, and not only one person has it, the whole clan had huge pride; and that is because of their Sharingan and their standard huge chakra pools. Two Uchihas against one non-uchiha means total victory to the Uchihas.

As for Minato's shunshin being faster than Itachi. I doubt it. Proof Itachi (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/13/), Proof Sasuke A (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/13) Proof Sasuke B (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/14/)




The 3rd actually blew the 1st and 2nd with explosive tags but they regenerated as they were mummies at that time so.......and the 3rd didn't die from using Shiki Fuujin against the 1st and 2nd but against Oro.

He began SF while fighting the 1st and 2nd. But he died because a sword pierced him. He admitted, he would have died by the Jutsu no matter later on, that's why the sword pierced him.


Stated by someone who has retired and probably didn't even fought the 3rd ninja war which says a lot about how her experienced advice is not up to date. Gai managed to make it an option and was successful against Kakashi(although not an Uchiha but still with the sharingan)who would gave those average Uchiha a run for their money. Even Itachi said to Kisame not to underestimate Gai.

Saying that about Chiyo is similarly saying about the 3rd, since they must have similar levels of experince. Perhaps she didn't fight the third war, which i doubt; then she must have fought in the second. Any old ninja must have fought an Uchiha before they died. A person of Itachi's speed(both Jutsu speed and movement), the opponent can't simply avoid eye contact because it isn't possible. Besides avoiding the eyes suddenly is very hard to accomplish, Gai can do it because he had trained for it and had the time; even Kurenai/Asmua said that Gai was the only one that could do such a thing in that fight. Minato won't have days to practice avoiding eye contact when he faces the Bros.

[Eddy01741]

For the shunshin, oh really?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/10/

In the second pic, Rin even states its the shunshin anyways.

I do maintain that one kage level ninja (or possibly kage+ level, since he is supposed to be the most powerful ninja to come from Konoha) vs. another kage level (you can't deny that itachi is kage level, even kisame is with his rediculous chakra pool and powerful ninjutsus), and a jounin level will result in the victory for itachi and sasuke in all likelyhood.

THat said, it is all speculative since we only know about the true power of Sasuke (and we still dont' know his MS powers), we don't know how powerful Itachi was since he has held back in all his fights, and Minato we know even less about. This is all pure speculation, this whole damn topic.

[The Flash]

For the shunshin, oh really?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/10/

In the second pic, Rin even states its the shunshin anyways.

I do maintain that one kage level ninja (or possibly kage+ level, since he is supposed to be the most powerful ninja to come from Konoha) vs. another kage level (you can't deny that itachi is kage level, even kisame is with his rediculous chakra pool and powerful ninjutsus), and a jounin level will result in the victory for itachi and sasuke in all likelyhood.

THat said, it is all speculative since we only know about the true power of Sasuke (and we still dont' know his MS powers), we don't know how powerful Itachi was since he has held back in all his fights, and Minato we know even less about. This is all pure speculation, this whole damn topic.

Your right it is speculation. Oh btw your wrong about the pic. Shunshin is a physical movement. Hiraishin is teleportation.

As you can see the first picture, MInato placed his hand on the guys foot. And on the next page, NOT PAGE 10, BUT PAGE 9 - go look at the bottom frame - you see a tag on the rock ninja's foot. Rin thought it was shunshin, but it's not.

[Eddy01741]

Oh, damn, I didn't know that was a tag.... I thought the kind of seal he used was like an exploding tag, so... how did he get the seal on his foot int he first place? My thinking is that he countered the rock ninja's counter-attack on Kakashi by using shunshin, and as you can clearly see, he does a little upside down kicking/seperating them he is plants one of his hands on the rock ninja's foot while he is separating them, I think there is where he plants the tag. So then on page 10, he teleports right to where the rock ninja is.

[The Flash]

Oh, damn, I didn't know that was a tag.... I thought the kind of seal he used was like an exploding tag, so... how did he get the seal on his foot int he first place? My thinking is that he countered the rock ninja's counter-attack on Kakashi by using shunshin, and as you can clearly see, he does a little upside down kicking/seperating them he is plants one of his hands on the rock ninja's foot while he is separating them, I think there is where he plants the tag. So then on page 10, he teleports right to where the rock ninja is.

exactly. Dont worry - i was like you at first. I thought it was shunshin cause Rin said so. But i wasn't carefully on observing those pages. lol

So the story of the day - Read the manga carefully :p

[Raizen]

Well, it is logical if you think about it; a person whose life's goal is to learn all the Jutsus in the world, hence his immortality jutsu. He went to an organization that is filled with S-class ninja. He must have picked up at least a Jutsu or two. Besides, the initiation for the organization seems to be very tough, as Sasori was forced to use himself. And Deidara had to fight for his life, if he lost he joins.
Oro is a sannin level ninja, being admitted into akatsuki should have been pretty easy. I mean J-man was so close to beating their leader Pein. And from what we have seen, J-man is stronger than oro, and from what J-man and other ninjas have stated it can be inferred the 4th is stronger than J-man hence stronger than oro


But that praise was made because Minato was young when he became Hokage. Jiraiya and Kakashi did fight Itachi, but they never fought him when he wasn't holding back. Plus, when Itachi fought Kakashi, it wasn't that he couldn't kill, he needed a victim to send the threat message to Danzou: Last panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/06/) and First panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/07/)
He was praised b/c his skills were the best that the leaf has EVER seen. That landed him the role of hokage at the youngest age.

[QUOTE=sarry;994108]Think about, if Minato throws three kunai, one hits a tree, another hits a rock and the third hits the ground. If Minato wants to go the one on the tree, don't you think that Kunai will use more Chakra and stand out between the other three. Sure it takes a second to move for Hirashin, but the reaction speed of Sasuke and Itachi is very fast. They would see where he is going next. Even if they don't know how the Jutsu works, they can easily figure it out.
We have no idea how hiraishin really works. What makes u think that when he go to one of the tags it exudes chakra? That is BS. And while I do not believe itachi or sasuke, even with their little sharingan, can react fast enough to hiraishin, that is one of many attacks. In this situation that u have set up, minato throws 3 kunai. His first attack comes from the tree, but if it is blocked he will teleport to another back and forth. No way any ninja can block all those succession of attacks. If u think they can u are in total denial. And just b/c u figure out how a jutsu works does not mean u can counter it



No, they saw their effects. Tsukyoumi was seen by Kakashi, but Itachi never went into the MS mode, Tsukyuomi in MS mode is probably stronger and much faster to cast. Jiraya saw Itachi's back when he used Tsukyuomi on Sasuke, he only saw the effects of it; and for Amatersu, he didn't even see Itachi use it, all he saw was the black fire, he didn't see where it came from, and that matters a lot.
He needs MS to cast the 3 jutsus. Look back at the chapter, MS was shown. By seeing the effects or whatever, both kakashi and J-man knows just how powerful itachi is for him to cast powerful jutsus yet they still praised the 4th as not been surpassed.



No, even Yamato's wood was shattered, CN is an ultimate defense, to learn it weakness, Minato must go through at least two or three times, which would fry him the first time.
As has been said before, The Uchiha are the "Spartans" of the Narutoverse. They evolve during true battle, they gain their sharingan by live through life-threatening situation and they evolve it during more life-threatening situation. You are sadly underestimating the Uchiha, Pride and ego come for a reason, and not only one person has it, the whole clan had huge pride; and that is because of their Sharingan and their standard huge chakra pools. Two Uchihas against one non-uchiha means total victory to the Uchihas.
Uchihas...uchihas..uchihas...You act as if they are like the kings of the world. They are not that is why the clan is no more. No one is underestimating the uchihas. It is just that their skills are not a match for minato and we only seen 3 of his techniques will the uchihas have shown their whole arsenal


As for Minato's shunshin being faster than Itachi. I doubt it. Proof Itachi (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/13/), Proof Sasuke A (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/13) Proof Sasuke B (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/14/)
Yeah, OK. Someone who is known by ALL for their speed is eaily beaten. WWWOOOOWWWWW :notrust


He began SF while fighting the 1st and 2nd. But he died because a sword pierced him. He admitted, he would have died by the Jutsu no matter later on, that's why the sword pierced him.
The sword pierced him after he caught oro. He knew he was going to die b/c the jutsu has already started to drag out oro's soul



Saying that about Chiyo is similarly saying about the 3rd, since they must have similar levels of experince. Perhaps she didn't fight the third war, which i doubt; then she must have fought in the second. Any old ninja must have fought an Uchiha before they died. A person of Itachi's speed(both Jutsu speed and movement), the opponent can't simply avoid eye contact because it isn't possible. Besides avoiding the eyes suddenly is very hard to accomplish, Gai can do it because he had trained for it and had the time; even Kurenai/Asmua said that Gai was the only one that could do such a thing in that fight. Minato won't have days to practice avoiding eye contact when he faces the Bros.
He doesn't need to avoid eye contact. U act as if just looking in their eyes means utter doom. The uchihas have to be aware he is making eye contact in order to cast their genjutsu but the 4th os moving way to fast for them to realize he was looking at them. This is a speed battle, eye contact is not really that relevant.

As for ur other post that said MY logic was flawed, how funny b/c if anything here is faulty it is ur ability to comprehend. Nowhere in my post did I say that the uchihas won't be able to use their eyes and just stand there. By releasing kunais to different locations, minato permits himself to transfer to any of those 50 spots at any given time. He can move form one kunai location to another like light. Even with sharingan u can't predict which one he will move to and also he can move back and forth so fast that even if u are able to somehow "block" the first hit he can keep attacking back and forth in a second. B4 u tell me my logic is flawed, seriously take a look in the mirror. U said that the 4th and 3rd has not surpassed the 1st when clearly the author has stated so in the databooks. He even stated that the generations being compared INCLUDED the 1st hokage. And where do u get off saying just b/c Madara can't beat the 1st means the 3rd and 4th can't? All ur statements are basically loads of crap.:mad

[Shaunlim]

Well, it is logical if you think about it; a person whose life's goal is to learn all the Jutsus in the world, hence his immortality jutsu. He went to an organization that is filled with S-class ninja. He must have picked up at least a Jutsu or two. Besides, the initiation for the organization seems to be very tough, as Sasori was forced to use himself. And Deidara had to fight for his life, if he lost he joins.
I doubt that the Akatsuki has a session where all the member share their jutsus or anything. The initiation to join if it even exist just seems to be asked by another member as shown in Deidara's case. Only reason he almost lost his life or even fought to begin with was because Itachi wanted him to join by force, saying that if he can win Deidara, Dei would have to join Akatsuki. Even if it exist and it is tough to pass, that just mean that Oro at the time when he left Konoha was strong enough nothing about him being stronger. Not to mention that Anko fought him again in the forest of death as I have said before thus outlining his ability yet Anko was still assured that the 4th would change the condition. Seriously, comparing part 1 and part 2, the only new jutsu Oro has shown was his oral rebirth and his defense technique. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/121/03/ The God of Shinobi was forced to use the 4th's jutsu to help win Orochimaru which tells you something about the 4th's proness and by all means I don't mean the 4th need FH to go against Oro.



Hmm, look down, where is the Quote button is; next to it there should be three other buttons; the last button on the right is the Thanks. Of course look at another person's post.

If it doesn't work, then scroll down the page as much as you can. You will find a list-tap that will contain colors, for themes for the website.
Chose whichever color you like, then try looking again for the Thanks button.
Thanks again but it seems that I must be lacking something as I still can't see it.


But that praise was made because Minato was young when he became Hokage. Jiraiya and Kakashi did fight Itachi, but they never fought him when he wasn't holding back. Plus, when Itachi fought Kakashi, it wasn't that he couldn't kill, he needed a victim to send the threat message to Danzou: Last panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/06/) and First panel (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/07/)
You confirmed my point even more by saying that. If a younger Minato is capable of becoming a Hokage and getting praised by a Sannin about his talent and genius, meaning he would totally kill Oro. Mind you, the 4th was much younger than Oro and yet he had almost surpassed him if not surpassed already(which I believe the 4th did already). Although not at 100%, but those two definitely saw what Itachi was capable of. His Tsukiyomi and Amateratsu is undoubtedly his strongest jutsus after Susano'o and those two are pretty impressive themselves. Jiraiya clearly states that Itachi must not have been from this world to be able to escape that jutsu of his but yet said that the 4th was still that great. Even Kakashi that experience the full power of Tsukiyomi before said the same thing.



Well, when i said like Chess, the chess rules were never in my point.
What I meant by the rules is that it is harder to predict when there is not pattern for you to see.



Think about, if Minato throws three kunai, one hits a tree, another hits a rock and the third hits the ground. If Minato wants to go the one on the tree, don't you think that Kunai will use more Chakra and stand out between the other three. Sure it takes a second to move for Hirashin, but the reaction speed of Sasuke and Itachi is very fast. They would see where he is going next. Even if they don't know how the Jutsu works, they can easily figure it out.
Well actually, I don't think the Kunai will use more chakra as chakra would be released by Minato not the Kunai. I'm sure there is chakra at those kunai but what I'm saying is that Minato would be the one releasing those chakra not the Kunai. Their reaction speed might be fast, but I doubt it is actually as fast as Minato's split second teleportation(meaning Sharingan can't help to predict here). Eventually they would don't get me wrong, but it is whether they can survive long enough to analyze it.


The sannin fight isn't a battle to see if Orochimaru improved. He couldn't have used his hands thus his Jutsus were locked, Jiraiya began the fight with little Chakra.
Like I said, just an outline of his improvement. I'm pretty sure his taijutsu is ok. Besides, Jiraiya has been stalking Oro and collection information about him since he left the village as confirmed by Tsunade as well.


No, they saw their effects. Tsukyoumi was seen by Kakashi, but Itachi never went into the MS mode, Tsukyuomi in MS mode is probably stronger and much faster to cast. Jiraya saw Itachi's back when he used Tsukyuomi on Sasuke, he only saw the effects of it; and for Amatersu, he didn't even see Itachi use it, all he saw was the black fire, he didn't see where it came from, and that matters a lot.
I'm not sure about the whole MS mode like I have mentioned to you before. Afterall, Tsukiyomi is a MS jutsu so I just don't get how Itachi could have cast it without MS either way and Kakashi's experience of Tsukiyomi was by far the worst Tsukiyomi effect that we have seen(imaging getting stab for 72 hours for god knows how many people).


No, even Yamato's wood was shattered, CN is an ultimate defense, to learn it weakness, Minato must go through at least two or three times, which would fry him the first time.
As has been said before, The Uchiha are the "Spartans" of the Narutoverse. They evolve during true battle, they gain their sharingan by live through life-threatening situation and they evolve it during more life-threatening situation. You are sadly underestimating the Uchiha, Pride and ego come for a reason, and not only one person has it, the whole clan had huge pride; and that is because of their Sharingan and their standard huge chakra pools. Two Uchihas against one non-uchiha means total victory to the Uchihas.
I doubt that metals would be actually weaker compared to wood. CN by any means is not the ultimate defense. Even using a simple fire jutsu and he would get burnt. My point is that ninjutsu or weapon attacks still works on him regardless only protecting from melee attack from taijutsu. Not to mention, you ignored the part where I said Sasuke won't be able to use it all that easily. He would have to mold chakra and change it through nature manipulation, taking some time which would mean death. The only reason why anyone or Sai and Naruto for that matter fell for CN was because they decided to hold him rather than just cut his throat. As the whole evolving thing, everyone in the Narutoverse can be said to evolved from fighting. Even Naruto said he became stronger after the fight with Kiba. About the whole 2 uchiha vs one non-uchiha doesn't mean total victory or assured of a victory.



As for Minato's shunshin being faster than Itachi. I doubt it. Proof Itachi (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/13/), Proof Sasuke A (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/13) Proof Sasuke B (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/307/14/)
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/ the distant traveled by the 4th at that point was much further compared to Itachi or Sasuke which is not all that far. For Sasuke's case, everyone in that room was already tired after fighting Oro and Kyuubi.....while Sasuke just woke up from bed.

EDIT : as shown in that link I gave, you can see some zoom and people moving indicating that it wasn't hiraishin merely shunshin.


He began SF while fighting the 1st and 2nd. But he died because a sword pierced him. He admitted, he would have died by the Jutsu no matter later on, that's why the sword pierced him.
That I was referring to your post which you mentioned that the only reason the 3rd was able to beat the 2nd and 1st was because of Shiki Fuijin which I said was not true because the 1st and 2nd would have been dead already if not for the fact that they were mummies at that moment. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/14/ http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/15/ and that was without FH being activated yet. I mean getting your leg blown up is rather painful and makes you lose blood. At that rate, the 3rd would have killed the 1st and 2nd if not for the fact that they were mummies. For whether the 3rd would die or not, I think he meant he wouldn't care about the sword since he will be dying anyways after using the Jutsu ON ORO. Meaning he won't die from using it alone. Afterall, the KB went poof after FH has done their job with the 1st and 2nd. I don't see any reason why the 3rd couldn't have stopped the jutsu there and then.


Saying that about Chiyo is similarly saying about the 3rd, since they must have similar levels of experince. Perhaps she didn't fight the third war, which i doubt; then she must have fought in the second. Any old ninja must have fought an Uchiha before they died. A person of Itachi's speed(both Jutsu speed and movement), the opponent can't simply avoid eye contact because it isn't possible. Besides avoiding the eyes suddenly is very hard to accomplish, Gai can do it because he had trained for it and had the time; even Kurenai/Asmua said that Gai was the only one that could do such a thing in that fight. Minato won't have days to practice avoiding eye contact when he faces the Bros.
No since the 3rd went out of retirement while she stayed in hers. Actually if everyone is moving fast around here and there, eye contact is actually harder. Avoiding eye contact as I have mentioned is the up to date method. Even if it is hard it is not impossible or can only be done by Gai or only after harsh training. Chiyo, Sakura and Naruto was also able to do it. Not to mention Kakashi as well but since he might have trained for it, we can exclude him.

[The Flash]

@ Sarry. You speak highly of the ultimate defense of Chidori Nagashi. I first of all believe Minato is a wind user. I know it hasn't been comfirned.(Minato - Wind, Kushina - water(whirlpool) - thats why i believe naruto will have water as second element. -- remember.. i'm just speculating here

But never the less your chidori nagashi will get shattered By naruto's Rasengan SHuriken. Wind > Lightning

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/
Shaunlim - i dont mean to put you down anything. But that wasn't shunshin. If you look carefully from page 8-10.
1)Minato saves kakashi
2)Grabs/puts the seal on Rock Ninja's fot
3) Just before Minato leaves, we see the rock ninja's foot and the "rite/hiraishin tag" on it.
4) Then we see Minato behind THe rock Ninja's back.

Rin thought it was shunshin no jutsu - but it wasn't . the frames/pictures of the pages shows/proves my point.

Shunshin jutsu - is physical accelerated movement
Hiraishin - a teleport (reversed kuchiyose) - the tags on rock ninja's foot supports my claim

HOWEVER shaunlim... that chapter also brings a good point of Minato's Shunshin/speed. WHen Kakashi was going to get hammered by that ninja's sword - Minato appeared out of no where, and saved Kakashi from further damage.




No since the 3rd went out of retirement while she stayed in hers. Actually if everyone is moving fast around here and there, eye contact is actually harder. Avoiding eye contact as I have mentioned is the up to date method. Even if it is hard it is not impossible or can only be done by Gai or only after harsh training. Chiyo, Sakura and Naruto was also able to do it. Not to mention Kakashi as well but since he might have trained for it, we can exclude him.

Dont forget Gai! lol - He trained no eye contact because kakashi had the sharingan.. afterall kakashi is his ultimate rival. :p

[En Yang Ji]

@ Sarry. You speak highly of the ultimate defense of Chidori Nagashi. I first of all believe Minato is a wind user. I know it hasn't been comfirned.(Minato - Wind, Kushina - water(whirlpool) - thats why i believe naruto will have water as second element. -- remember.. i'm just speculating here

But never the less your chidori nagashi will get shattered By naruto's Rasengan SHuriken. Wind > Lightning

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/
Shaunlim - i dont mean to put you down anything. But that wasn't shunshin. If you look carefully from page 8-10.
1)Minato saves kakashi
2)Grabs/puts the seal on Rock Ninja's fot
3) Just before Minato leaves, we see the rock ninja's foot and the "rite/hiraishin tag" on it.
4) Then we see Minato behind THe rock Ninja's back.

Rin thought it was shunshin no jutsu - but it wasn't . the frames/pictures of the pages shows/proves my point.

Shunshin jutsu - is physical accelerated movement
Hiraishin - a teleport (reversed kuchiyose) - the tags on rock ninja's foot supports my claim

HOWEVER shaunlim... that chapter also brings a good point of Minato's Shunshin/speed. WHen Kakashi was going to get hammered by that ninja's sword - Minato appeared out of no where, and saved Kakashi from further damage.



Dont forget Gai! lol - He trained no eye contact because kakashi had the sharingan.. afterall kakashi is his ultimate rival. :p

I think Sarry meant after Minato saved Kakashi on his way back to Rin and Obito. While Minato did use hirashin to save Kakashi, there were no rites where Rin and Obito were apparently. So it seems Minato did use shushin.

[The Flash]

I think Sarry meant after Minato saved Kakashi on his way back to Rin and Obito. While Minato did use hirashin to save Kakashi, there were no rites where Rin and Obito were apparently. So it seems Minato did use shushin.

wait.. well i guess. When Minato saved Kakashi - he used Hiraishin(cause Kakashi had the special tagged Kunai with him)...... he then probably did use shunshin to get back to Rin and Obito... but then used Hiraishin to get back to that rock ninja and killed him.

[c0nflikt]

Itachi was just below hokage level, and sasuke didn't beat him at his full potential. Minato was the greatest hokage ever he would dust the both of them.

[Eddy01741]

All of this is too confusing, the way I see it:

Minato uses shunshin to intercept kakashi nad enemy rock ninja
In the process of separating them he plants his hand on the rock ninja's foot placing a tag on it
He shunshins himself and kakashi back to where the others are
He uses hiraishin to get the jump on the rock ninja afterwards.

[ophidial]

imo minato would win against itachi with a small but significant margin to spare
and sasuke would be less than a speed bump to him.
Together, with sasuke's arrogance and continuous under estimation of the enemy,
his cockiness would lead him to actually be detrimental to itachi as minato is
ruthless in the battlefield and would obviously target the weaker link first. Thus itachi would
need to also focus on sasuke to ensure he survives.
Therefore i believe sasuke and itachi would still lose on the battlefield as sasuke
would need to be helped/saved in a battle of such powerhouses.

[Shaunlim]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/
Shaunlim - i dont mean to put you down anything. But that wasn't shunshin. If you look carefully from page 8-10.
1)Minato saves kakashi
2)Grabs/puts the seal on Rock Ninja's fot
3) Just before Minato leaves, we see the rock ninja's foot and the "rite/hiraishin tag" on it.
4) Then we see Minato behind THe rock Ninja's back.


HOWEVER shaunlim... that chapter also brings a good point of Minato's Shunshin/speed. WHen Kakashi was going to get hammered by that ninja's sword - Minato appeared out of no where, and saved Kakashi from further damage.


Dont forget Gai! lol - He trained no eye contact because kakashi had the sharingan.. afterall kakashi is his ultimate rival. :p

Haha. What I meant to show was how Minato went back to Obito and Rin with shunshin which can be proven since u see the whole zoom thingy at one of the panels =). Just didn't explain it(guess i should have) since I already mentioned before a few post back and was kinda lazy to repeat what I have said. No harm done though =).

[badluckartist]

Don't know enough about Minato; we haven't even seen the guy fight.

I wish people would stop doing stuff like this.

[jodi]

About the elemental affinity of Minato. He does have one, but that doesn't mean he has focused on mastering it. Every ninja in the series has a natural alighnment that they're born with. Even Lee. It's just some don't/can't learn to manipulate said element. Neji doesn't use an element because he's a taijutsu specialist. Lee doesn't because he can't manipulate his chakra.

Actually, he may not have been able to alter the Rasengan's nature based solely on the fact that his natural alignment was one that doesn't work well with Rasengan. Lighting element doesn't work well with Rasengan, because Kakashi attempted to combine lighting with Rasengan and that was how Raikiri was born. It was a stronger version of Chidori, sure. But it lost the traits that make Rasengan a Rasengan. So he could have something like Earth, which most definatley wouldn't bode well when mixed with a Rasengan.

Staying on topic though, someone mentioned throwing Kunai all over the ground as traps inorder to go where he wanted to, when he wanted to. My question is, who would sit in the middle of all of these kunai when they know what Minato's ability does? Or even better, if the battlefield is being burned by Amaterasu, I don't see Minato risking something like that.

Also, something I noticed about Hiraishin is that it's basically a reverse Kuchiyose. Summoning costs a different amount of chakra depending on the size of the thing summoned. You know just how much chakra it would take for him to summon a human sized object multiple times? Not nearly as much as Gamabunta, but enough that it would add up. Especially since we've no idea how much chakra Minato has.

where did you get that Kakashi trying to make chidori with rasengan and raikiri borning?
I don't remember that being stated anywhere

[Eddy01741]

In my view, raikiri is either just a chidori that Kakashi uses (just a name) or a slightly stronger chidori (blue chakra vs. white IIRC, and it's more like a blade than just a mass of chakra in its looks, so it could have a tad bit extra spatial manipulation than regular chidori).

Anyways, as for rasengan mixing with elements, it's obvious that wind would be the most logical one to mix with rasengan (the rasengan itself is described as a "mini typhoon", typhoons have high winds, plus, rasengna itself is just pure chakra spinning arround in all directions at high speed). Earth wouldn't work out so well, lightning neither (lightning doesnt have like... staying power, a lightning strike hits and it's gone within a millisecond). Fire might work, and so might water, but I still think that wind is the best element to combine with rasengan.

[badluckartist]

I think that was how Kishi figured it when he gave Naruto the wind element and (if he was the one who did it) named Part II of Naruto "Hurricane Chronicles".

[neomaster121]

I think that was how Kishi figured it when he gave Naruto the wind element and (if he was the one who did it) named Part II of Naruto "Hurricane Chronicles".

second part of a hurricane lots of water

[Raizen]

All of this is too confusing, the way I see it:

Minato uses shunshin to intercept kakashi nad enemy rock ninja
In the process of separating them he plants his hand on the rock ninja's foot placing a tag on it
He shunshins himself and kakashi back to where the others are
He uses hiraishin to get the jump on the rock ninja afterwards.
That seems to be the case. Either way it showcased just how AMAZING the speed of minato is w/ or w/o Hiraishin.

As for how chidori was created (I believe that was the question), kakashi tried to add lightning to rasengan but since rasengan was such a high level of spatial manipulation Kakshi couldn't add the elemental nature. So he lowered the spatial level of rasengan to the point where he can add his nature. thus chidori is created. And even though chidori has both nature and spatial properties, it is still weaker than a regular rasengan b/c it's high level of spatial manipulation is better than chidori's nature and spatial properties.

Also to add to Minato winning this battle, IMO most likely minato went through senjutsu training also. Thus his chakra is being constantly infused with outside chakra. Thus cancelling out genjutsu the same way jinuurikis can

[The Flash]

where did you get that Kakashi trying to make chidori with rasengan and raikiri borning?
I don't remember that being stated anywhere

he probably meant - Kakashi at first tried to put his own lightning nature into rasengan - but failed. Hence the reason why he made Chidori.

And oh btw Raikiri and chidori is the same. If you read the chapter during the chuunin fight. Gai said "Kakashi split lightning with his chidor, ever since it got the nickname of Raikiri" so essentially raikiri, and chidori are the same.

[Eddy01741]

But IIRC, in the databook or something raikiri is s class and chidori is a class...

[kkck]

The databook says chidori is an A class jutsu, while raikiri is a compresed version of chidori, therefore am s-class jutsu.

[Necron]

well obviously ...we know three things :
1- we've seen everything from itachi , well almost everything . but his most powerfull techniwues have been shown to us
2- we really know everything that sasuke can do ( and honestly , looking at the hachibi fight, he really has to learn things . well unless kishimoto doesn't use - favorite character no jutsu - then its a completely different story)
3- besides from haraishin , shiki fujin , summoning , and rasengan (i hope i wrote those attack correct at least in some way) -we know a Sh** about minato
and just those jutsus i named there are all really kickass abilities

so i still think that sasuke would die in the fight first and then we would have a hell of a fight between Minato and the strongest uchiha ( well thats only my opinion , of course)

[Raizen]

well obviously ...we know three things :
1- we've seen everything from itachi , well almost everything . but his most powerfull techniwues have been shown to us
2- we really know everything that sasuke can do ( and honestly , looking at the hachibi fight, he really has to learn things . well unless kishimoto doesn't use - favorite character no jutsu - then its a completely different story)
3- besides from haraishin , shiki fujin , summoning , and rasengan (i hope i wrote those attack correct at least in some way) -we know a Sh** about minato
and just those jutsus i named there are all really kickass abilities

so i still think that sasuke would die in the fight first and then we would have a hell of a fight between Minato and the strongest uchiha ( well thats only my opinion , of course)
Considering sasuke's abilities so far in the hachibi fight, it will take a second for the 4th to kill him leaving it w/ just itachi. And while itachi is strong, I don't think he can stand much of a chance against the 4th.

Amaretsu-teleport to the back of itachi or away from the fire making itachi waste huge ass chakra.
Tsukyomi- this is a high speed battle so I don't think there will be time to have eye contact. Besides, the sharingan user has to be aware that the other ninja is looking in their eyes b4 he can cast the genjutsu. The sharingan isn't going to cast the gen by itself. As for all the other gen, I believe that the 4th did go through senjutsu training. That would mean he has Crazy amount of chakra and by using the chakra from outside it can act as his partner in a sense counter the gen.
Susanoo- I believe this to be a death jutsu. A trump card that will ultimately kill the user. Given how fast minato is the sword shouldn't be able to hit him. The shield, we are not sure if the monster is able to block the attacks w/o the shield if not then the 4th can hiraishin back and forth using jutsus that will be too fast for the shield to keep up with to block them

SO Minato kick ass

[Lelo]

What? 2-1 is ridiculous? Sandaime did a 2 on 1 with two hokages and he beat them, using Minato's technique. No doubt that Minato would rough up the Uchihas in an instant.

okay, first off Sandaime was stronger than both Hokages, he knew way more advanced and new jutsu that the previous Hokages didnt cause they werent around to see(like Minatos jutsu). Second he wasn't fighting 2 uchihas, w/MS, not even one. Beating 2 guys who are ridiculoulsy strong and they have the best defensive power, the Sharingan, they can read and copy most of ur moves, its just too much to handle. I know Minatos soo fast and he can do his space/time jutsu to fuck them up but Sasuke and Itachi are fast as hell too. They are probably the three fastest shinobis of all time. In the end Sasuke would be hurt, maybe dead, and Itachi would finish off Minato. One uchiha with MS is enough, 2 Uchihas w/ MS is just suicide. Minato will rough them up, I can't argue with that but he won't win.

[Shaunlim]

okay, first off Sandaime was stronger than both Hokages, he knew way more advanced and new jutsu that the previous Hokages didnt cause they werent around to see(like Minatos jutsu). Second he wasn't fighting 2 uchihas, w/MS, not even one. Beating 2 guys who are ridiculoulsy strong and they have the best defensive power, the Sharingan, they can read and copy most of ur moves, its just too much to handle. I know Minatos soo fast and he can do his space/time jutsu to fuck them up but Sasuke and Itachi are fast as hell too. They are probably the three fastest shinobis of all time. In the end Sasuke would be hurt, maybe dead, and Itachi would finish off Minato. One uchiha with MS is enough, 2 Uchihas w/ MS is just suicide. Minato will rough them up, I can't argue with that but he won't win.
First off, who's to say that the 4th isn't stronger than both of the Uchihas?? Although they may know newer or more advance technique but that doesn't mean that those technique actually surpasses what the 4th's jutsu(still said to be unsurpassed by jiraiya and kakashi).
The two guys he is fighting is not ridiculously strong. Maybe Itachi but definitely not Sasuke as shown in his recent encounters. The Sharingan is not unbeatable or godlike as there are ways to overcome it as mentioned by others in this thread. Itachi and Sasuke might have shown to be fast but still they weren't show to be at Gai or Lee's speed so it is overkill in the speed sector for the 4th.
One Uchiha with the MS is definitely not enough. Having MS doesn't make you godlike mind you. If that was the case, Sasuke would not have died twice to the 8th tail. With that said, it is not proper to say that the 4th won't win just because he is up against two Uchiha with MS. They are strong, I won't argue with that but the only one that really stand a chance here is Itachi and he would be preoccupied with Sasuke's safety which is pratically suicide here. Like what Raizen said, MS's jutsu would most likely be a drawback to Itachi if not used properly.

[Raizen]

I don't get why people assume that just b/c their opponent is an uchiha means ultimate doom for the enemy b/c the uchihas and read and counter everything.

Lets say the 4th has two tags, one in front of itachi and one in the back. He appears to the one in the back and exchanges attacks, let say itachi was able to "protect himself", then the 4th would dissapear right away to the other one and attack while itachi is still focused in the front. Due to hiraishin, the combination of attacks that minato can do is unlimited. It is permutation after permutation. What happens when he has 50 kunais on the field? one work ANNIHILATION!!

[Finale]

Don't know if this was already stated as I didn't read the entire discussion, but I would have to go with this being a really close fight that could go either way. Everyone keeps on talking about what all the sharingan can do but we have seen many different ways to counter it. As a genius ninja would genjustu be as effective on Minato? How many times can the Bros use their doujustus before running out of chakra? Zabusa showed us that mist or fog can counter the sharingan. We don't know the full abilities of the fourth such as whether or not he knows how to enter sage mode like Jariyia. On a purely speculative note I think that living in a village at the time the Uchihas were still prominent and having one for a student, Minato probably thought up ways not mentioned in the manga on how to combat the Sharingan. I really think that later on in the manga we will get to learn how truly great Minato was but as it stands now the best I can give him is a close battle with neither side winning outright.

[Deviant]

Considering sasuke's abilities so far in the hachibi fight, it will take a second for the 4th to kill him leaving it w/ just itachi. And while itachi is strong, I don't think he can stand much of a chance against the 4th.

Amaretsu-teleport to the back of itachi or away from the fire making itachi waste huge ass chakra.
Tsukyomi- this is a high speed battle so I don't think there will be time to have eye contact. Besides, the sharingan user has to be aware that the other ninja is looking in their eyes b4 he can cast the genjutsu. The sharingan isn't going to cast the gen by itself. As for all the other gen, I believe that the 4th did go through senjutsu training. That would mean he has Crazy amount of chakra and by using the chakra from outside it can act as his partner in a sense counter the gen.
Susanoo- I believe this to be a death jutsu. A trump card that will ultimately kill the user. Given how fast minato is the sword shouldn't be able to hit him. The shield, we are not sure if the monster is able to block the attacks w/o the shield if not then the 4th can hiraishin back and forth using jutsus that will be too fast for the shield to keep up with to block them

SO Minato kick ass

Everything he said.

He's right.

Sasuke would die in no time at all, literally.

Itachi might die instantly, too, but I doubt it.

[Raizen]

Everything he said.

He's right.

Sasuke would die in no time at all, literally.

Itachi might die instantly, too, but I doubt it.
Wow, considering your signature i thought for sure u would be like oh " the sharingan is the ultimate and would totally win" but You didn't. Color me surprised hahaha :p

I like itachi a lot. He is a much more kick ass character than his emo bro sasuke, but ultimately he wouldn't stand much of a chance against Minato

[The Flash]

45 - 17 ouch. thats quite the spankin'

[nat]

Yeah Yeah Yeah, but how come most people in the discussion support the bros....That what I wanna know?

Plus we are still waiting for the translation of the third data book. As I said before, the bros will defeat Yondaime so bad, J-man will get feel pain from it . :D

[Csdabest]

Most the people who voted in this thread are either

1. Passer by forum members who saw minato name and voted.
2. Looked at hype instead of feats and abilities.
3. Sasuke haters. Which alot of people say this forum is famous for their hate of the character.

Minato would get killed horribely. His best techniques and what he has been made famous for has been revealed.Yondaime is up. His best bet is a limited Spacetime jutsu. the supports use it as if he can teleport anywhere. And is not restricted to the kunais. If Sasuke happens to have the spacetime jutsu Madara has. Then would that mean Minato s fuxed.

[Shaunlim]

Yeah Yeah Yeah, but how come most people in the discussion support the bros....That what I wanna know?

Plus we are still waiting for the translation of the third data book. As I said before, the bros will defeat Yondaime so bad, J-man will get feel pain from it . :D
Because people can't be bothered to post here doesn't mean that their votes are useless. Yondaime's stat is still unknown so the third books info is rather pointless in this case.



Most the people who voted in this thread are either

1. Passer by forum members who saw minato name and voted.
2. Looked at hype instead of feats and abilities.
3. Sasuke haters. Which alot of people say this forum is famous for their hate of the character.
Last I check, Itachi and Sasuke is more popular compared to the 4th. Not to mentioned those stuff u said are just assumptions since most of us here has shown how Yondai can win as well. As much Sasuke haters there are, there are Sasuke lovers as well so this is getting no where.



Minato would get killed horribely. His best techniques and what he has been made famous for has been revealed.Yondaime is up. His best bet is a limited Spacetime jutsu. the supports use it as if he can teleport anywhere. And is not restricted to the kunais. If Sasuke happens to have the spacetime jutsu Madara has. Then would that mean Minato s fuxed.
Said before, just because they know of the technique, they still don't know how it works and the strength of the technique. Heck do they even know about it in the first place. All they could have known is that minato is fast and that's it. His best bet is not a limited spacetime jutsu as he has others in his arsenal. Just because it is the best bet doesn't mean that it is the most suitable one to use in that particular situation.
If Sasuke happens to have. That like you yourself have said lots of time. Would have always < to Have. If anyone has Madara's spacetime jutsu, they would almost instantly be near godlike but that's not the case since only he have shown that ability. Even shodai found a way around it so it is not impossible to defeat that jutsu.

[Csdabest]

Last I check, Itachi and Sasuke is more popular compared to the 4th. Not to mentioned those stuff u said are just assumptions since most of us here has shown how Yondai can win as well. As much Sasuke haters there are, there are Sasuke lovers as well so this is getting no where.

And last time I checked people still ride on Yondai crotch cuz kishi made a statement near the beginning of the manga. Through character that was uneducated by the world. And true. There are Sasuke haters and lovers. Be when a sight is reffered to by other multiple forums as a site plagued with sasuker haters. it makes a statement.


Said before, just because they know of the technique, they still don't know how it works and the strength of the technique. Heck do they even know about it in the first place. All they could have known is that minato is fast and that's it. His best bet is not a limited spacetime jutsu as he has others in his arsenal. Just because it is the best bet doesn't mean that it is the most suitable one to use in that particular situation.
If Sasuke happens to have. That like you yourself have said lots of time. Would have always < to Have. If anyone has Madara's spacetime jutsu, they would almost instantly be near godlike but that's not the case since only he have shown that ability. Even shodai found a way around it so it is not impossible to defeat that jutsu.

No one was arguing about if they know of it. But the technique is very limited. And every theory made was utter BS on some unknown stuff and based on that Sasuke Itachi wont use sharingan or they will just stand retarded. Not only that implying that Minato will already have the kunais and tags placed everywhere. Also implying if they werent. Sasuke and Itachi will just let him place the tags and kunais where ever he wants while not going on the offesne. That and if he will put them anywhere near the Uchiha brothers. Minato is a great shinobi. but he isnt god. He will fall at the hands of two uchihas as skilled and talented as Sasuke and Itachi. If this fight started off just them standing in the field. All Sasuke or Itachi have to do is firing Amaterasu at him and he will be instantly fried. Not even Sasuke with his speed was able to avoid it. And Minato is not going to teleport to a tag that on him.

The only chance in hell I see minato having is he has serious battle areana prep which means he knows the uchiha abilities and has a chance to place his tags. other than that he gets raped.

Also no one knows the events of Shodai battle. Shodai had several bijuu at his disposal and seeing as how the Last chapter went. Madara may have not had all his MS abilities at his disposal.

my guess. Madara found them out. And tought Itachi the MS jutsu that he knew.

[Shaunlim]

And last time I checked people still ride on Yondai crotch cuz kishi made a statement near the beginning of the manga. Through character that was uneducated by the world. And true. There are Sasuke haters and lovers. Be when a sight is reffered to by other multiple forums as a site plagued with sasuker haters. it makes a statement.
That statement was repeated over and over again by characters in the manga at present times. Just because it is plagued with sasuke haters doesn't mean that sasuke lovers just doesn't exist here. Not to mention that Itachi also plays a part in this VS thread meaning people won't simply vote for minato simply because they hate Sasuke as Itachi is there as well and I'm pretty sure Itachi is somewhat popular.


No one was arguing about if they know of it. But the technique is very limited. And every theory made was utter BS on some unknown stuff and based on that Sasuke Itachi wont use sharingan or they will just stand retarded. Not only that implying that Minato will already have the kunais and tags placed everywhere. Also implying if they werent. Sasuke and Itachi will just let him place the tags and kunais where ever he wants while not going on the offesne. That and if he will put them anywhere near the Uchiha brothers. Minato is a great shinobi. but he isnt god. He will fall at the hands of two uchihas as skilled and talented as Sasuke and Itachi. If this fight started off just them standing in the field. All Sasuke or Itachi have to do is firing Amaterasu at him and he will be instantly fried. Not even Sasuke with his speed was able to avoid it. And Minato is not going to teleport to a tag that on him.
Just because you can't find a way against those theory doesn't make them utter BS. No one ever said that they would stand still and being retarded nor them not using their Sharingan. And just because they use their sharingan and move around, doesn't mean that they could pwn everyone in the world while they are at it. Whether those kunai and tags are planted before hand or not....even if they wasn't, they could be planted during the fight. As in Yondai running around hiding and planting those traps.
Yondai's normal speed is shown to be fast as well so it doesn't mean that he couldn't outrun amateratsu. Just because Sasuke can't, doesn't mean no one else can. Not to mentioned Sasuke probably wanted to get hit on purpose to prepare his Karin.



The only chance in hell I see minato having is he has serious battle areana prep which means he knows the uchiha abilities and has a chance to place his tags. other than that he gets raped.

Also no one knows the events of Shodai battle. Shodai had several bijuu at his disposal and seeing as how the Last chapter went. Madara may have not had all his MS abilities at his disposal.

my guess. Madara found them out. And tought Itachi the MS jutsu that he knew.
Like I have previously stated, Yondai definitely have other arsenal so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be so dependent on a jutsu.
Whether Shodai used those Bijuu or not is pure speculation but as far as those minor flashback have shown. There wasn't any other bijuu cept Kyuubi there.

[jmq07]

I think sharingan could see where minato throwing the tags and predict their trajectory. This would allow both uchihas to predict where minato is going to pop out off and counter attack. Normal ninjas can protect themself from kunais and shuriken by just reacting fast enough and bloking them. Maybe minato can throw those tags faster than anyone in narutoverse (hasnt been stated), but both uchihas have what probably is the strongest sharingans in their generation (I know the rest of uchihas were killed but that is not the point).

maybe, but, what if the physical reaction time is slower than their eyes' prediction of trajectory...

Seriously, Sasuke gets to be killed first then it will be the 4th against Itachi on a close fight though... But I'm rooting for Minato all the way

[Csdabest]

That statement was repeated over and over again by characters in the manga at present times. Just because it is plagued with sasuke haters doesn't mean that sasuke lovers just doesn't exist here. Not to mention that Itachi also plays a part in this VS thread meaning people won't simply vote for minato simply because they hate Sasuke as Itachi is there as well and I'm pretty sure Itachi is somewhat popular.

Besides the fact it is true. And there devoted Sasuke haters on the site. Like the fact that amaterasu was soo cool and legendary and no one wanted to have Sasuke gain it. He gained and used it and everyone wined how he overpowered and that he won with some b-rank fire jutsu agaisnt a Bijuu.


Just because you can't find a way against those theory doesn't make them utter BS. No one ever said that they would stand still and being retarded nor them not using their Sharingan. And just because they use their sharingan and move around, doesn't mean that they could pwn everyone in the world while they are at it. Whether those kunai and tags are planted before hand or not....even if they wasn't, they could be planted during the fight. As in Yondai running around hiding and planting those traps.
Yondai's normal speed is shown to be fast as well so it doesn't mean that he couldn't outrun amateratsu. Just because Sasuke can't, doesn't mean no one else can. Not to mentioned Sasuke probably wanted to get hit on purpose to prepare his Karin.

You all have ignored my counters by no they wouldn't, they are not able, but the tags will. So what is the point in bringing up another counter. Yondai wouldnt be able to toss kunai tags at them seeing as how Sasuke and Itachi a shuriken experts they'd just get reflected. And seeing as how they are both highly proficient in taijutsu. And can predit, see highspeed movement, and react to highspeed movement with quite ease and counter. Placing a tag on them is out of the question and will most likely lead to death. Yet to explain how he will beat Chidori Negashi. the best argument was that he will use wind jutsu. And there has been zero indication to his chakra affinity. So you counter with more BS. I dont beleive Minato is that fast outside of shunshin. With both characters have as well and Sasuke still has the better Shunshin feats. The fact that they can see their own highspeed movement quite easily and can adept and counter at those speeds put them above Minato when it comes to it. You never stated how Minato will overcome Itachi's finger point genjutsu and still keep sasuke over his back. Never stated how he will beat Tsukiyomi. Never stated how he will Beat Amaterasu. WHich I highly doubt he will escape w/o tags And if even he did how will he get pass Kirin. Or how he will defeat Susano'o. So far all I have seen is Minato would kill sasuke in a second w/o proof. When his stats are comparable to Itachi and and Jiraya. And has a more impressive jutsu set and skills. A Man that can pull off 5 MS jutsu and 5 Chidori in short time frame and carry a big ass jinchuuriki and still looked like he could pump more out the tank. Nothing suggest that Minato hasn't been passed already by Itachi. The only thing keeping Itachi back is his stamina and thats soley because of his sickness. Also you implimented Kage Bushins and there is no evidence to even show kage bushin is in his arsenal. And tried to say out of nowhere Minato had more chakra combined that both Uchihas.


Like I have previously stated, Yondai definitely have other arsenal so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be so dependent on a jutsu.
Whether Shodai used those Bijuu or not is pure speculation but as far as those minor flashback have shown. There wasn't any other bijuu cept Kyuubi there.[/QUOTE]

Rasengan, Toad Summoning, Shikifukin, Hirashin, Shunshin. These are most likely his best jutsus. Anything else was most likely not mentioned or worth mention due to them being to basic or not worth the time. Minato grew up in a time of war and wouldn't of had the time to train extensively, and develop alot of jutsu. And I dont know how many jutsus you think the average shinobi has. But shinobi been known to have around 4-10 jutsus in their arsenal. And considering the time a war minato most likely didnt have time to learn or develope much more than that. He developed Rasengan, Shikifujin, and Hirashin. 3 high level jutsus in his short lifetime. And considering the age he grew up in Im suprised he developed that many. Kakashi only has such a big arsenal because of his sharingan and ability to copy jutsu he see. Even then Kakashi has only been seen to have less then 10 jutsu worth mentioning. Also you got the whole battle invisioned from one scene and two mugshots? Thats very impressive. Shodai also had a rare kekkei genkei to support him. So he wasnt completely out gunned. he also faced a young Madara who probably didnt know all the MS jutsus. Cuz as we see Sasuke is still discovering some.
[hr]

maybe, but, what if the physical reaction time is slower than their eyes' prediction of trajectory...

Seriously, Sasuke gets to be killed first then it will be the 4th against Itachi on a close fight though... But I'm rooting for Minato all the way


Are you serious. Did you watch Itachi vs Sasuke especially when they were tossing shurken at eachother. Standing still in the same spot. Stop begging it.

[Shaunlim]

Besides the fact it is true. And there devoted Sasuke haters on the site. Like the fact that amaterasu was soo cool and legendary and no one wanted to have Sasuke gain it. He gained and used it and everyone wined how he overpowered and that he won with some b-rank fire jutsu agaisnt a Bijuu.
I really don't know how much more true the statements made by those mentioned character could get more true. And there are devored Sasuke lovers as well on this site. Only reason people is pissed about that fight is that it got ended in such a lame way. Not saying that amateratsu is lame but it's just one S rank jutsu and that's it ?? Killerbee was in bijuu mode afterall which is the second strongest creature in the Narutoverse after Kyuubi so yea.......



You all have ignored my counters by no they wouldn't, they are not able, but the tags will. So what is the point in bringing up another counter. Yondai wouldnt be able to toss kunai tags at them seeing as how Sasuke and Itachi a shuriken experts they'd just get reflected. And seeing as how they are both highly proficient in taijutsu. And can predit, see highspeed movement, and react to highspeed movement with quite ease and counter. Placing a tag on them is out of the question and will most likely lead to death. Yet to explain how he will beat Chidori Negashi. the best argument was that he will use wind jutsu. And there has been zero indication to his chakra affinity. So you counter with more BS. I dont beleive Minato is that fast outside of shunshin. With both characters have as well and Sasuke still has the better Shunshin feats. The fact that they can see their own highspeed movement quite easily and can adept and counter at those speeds put them above Minato when it comes to it. You never stated how Minato will overcome Itachi's finger point genjutsu and still keep sasuke over his back. Never stated how he will beat Tsukiyomi. Never stated how he will Beat Amaterasu. WHich I highly doubt he will escape w/o tags And if even he did how will he get pass Kirin. Or how he will defeat Susano'o. So far all I have seen is Minato would kill sasuke in a second w/o proof. When his stats are comparable to Itachi and and Jiraya. And has a more impressive jutsu set and skills. A Man that can pull off 5 MS jutsu and 5 Chidori in short time frame and carry a big ass jinchuuriki and still looked like he could pump more out the tank. Nothing suggest that Minato hasn't been passed already by Itachi. The only thing keeping Itachi back is his stamina and thats soley because of his sickness. Also you implimented Kage Bushins and there is no evidence to even show kage bushin is in his arsenal. And tried to say out of nowhere Minato had more chakra combined that both Uchihas.
I never mentioned wind or KBs but yea others have. Anyways, no said the kunai had to hit the bros just land around them that's it. He can still teleport to the location of the kunai on the floor. Just because your fast and good in taijutsu doesn't mean you would realise every single thing that your opponent is doing especially if it is a high speed one. As for CN, I have said it loads of times already. Forget KB forget Wind. All you need is explosive tags. You fail to realise that CN is not all that similar to Neji's Kaiten. I have shown proof of how fast Minato was as well without Hiraishin which is at the very least as fast as Sasuke's.
Genjutsu type attacks: Genjutsu doesn't auto-cast so even if you look at the sharingan, you won't get genjutsu'ed unless the uchiha realises it and actually casting it and seeing this is a high speed battle.....
Amateratsu : Just simply running from it would cause Itachi to die faster as it would drain his chakra. You could even escape with a Kawamiri. Even Sasuke managed to outrun it and probably got hit because he wanted to prepare Kirin.
Susano'o : Just outrun it as well. Chakra drain would kill Itachi. As it causes Itachi's Sharingan/MS to go off, he won't be able to predict movements at his best. Not to mention that the sealing sword need to stab you rather than just slice you making it even harder as Yondai is much smaller than hydra orochimaru and faster as well.



Rasengan, Toad Summoning, Shikifukin, Hirashin, Shunshin. These are most likely his best jutsus. Anything else was most likely not mentioned or worth mention due to them being to basic or not worth the time. Minato grew up in a time of war and wouldn't of had the time to train extensively, and develop alot of jutsu. And I dont know how many jutsus you think the average shinobi has. But shinobi been known to have around 4-10 jutsus in their arsenal. And considering the time a war minato most likely didnt have time to learn or develope much more than that. He developed Rasengan, Shikifujin, and Hirashin. 3 high level jutsus in his short lifetime. And considering the age he grew up in Im suprised he developed that many. Kakashi only has such a big arsenal because of his sharingan and ability to copy jutsu he see. Even then Kakashi has only been seen to have less then 10 jutsu worth mentioning. Also you got the whole battle invisioned from one scene and two mugshots? Thats very impressive. Shodai also had a rare kekkei genkei to support him. So he wasnt completely out gunned. he also faced a young Madara who probably didnt know all the MS jutsus. Cuz as we see Sasuke is still discovering some.
<hr noshade size="1">

You are forgetting the basic jutsus. Even though they are not all powerful, by all means they are still useful. Yes I did, as those were the only panel showing the battle. Unless you want to go into imagination then it's a different story. Whether shodai had KG or not is not the point here. What I'm trying to say is that there are ways to counter Madara's jutsu that's all. A young Madara which had EMS and was said to spam MS till he was blind. I'm pretty sure he figured quite a lot already at that time. He was even said to figure out the last secret of the sharingan so.......

[The Flash]

CDSABEST - to shut your your one sided view

Handicapped Sasuke vs Hachibi v ---->(result) Handicapped Sasuke >(greater) Hachibi? I dont think so.

I consider this more of a "TAKA" victory than Sasuke's victory. Why? well when sasuke got GLORIOUSLY owned once by Hachibi - It was Karin that saved sasuke severe wounds. On the second try it was Hachibi that GLORIOUSLY owned sasuke by literally blowing up his chest - It was Juugo who saved his life while suigetsu delayed time by fighting Hachibi.

If it was a one-on-one. Game is over. Hachibi is winner.

And dont give me "well Sasuke went easy on him" - well Hachibi went pretty easy in using his swords - and "fortunately" gave sasuke severe wounds

_________________________________
too bad the databook crushes your idea of Itachi vs Minato will be an even battle.

If Itachi = Jiraiya, then Minato is > than Itachi. Oh And jiraiya is the one that bragge that minato is leaps beyond him. And that only a person like him comes once in a decade.

Oh Cdsabest - i believe it was you who said Itachi vs Minato would be an even fight. Oh ok thanks to the databook you keep talking about. Jiraiya = Itachi, but Minato >Jiraiya (leaps beyond Jiraiya) - therefore Minato > Itachi

Oh if i dont recall, Naruto WILL surpass Minato. Making Naruto the best Ninja. It will come soon dont worry
[hr]

Yeah Yeah Yeah, but how come most people in the discussion support the bros....That what I wanna know?

Plus we are still waiting for the translation of the third data book. As I said before, the bros will defeat Yondaime so bad, J-man will get feel pain from it . :D

oh the answer is simple, its because umm well its just common knowledge. Everyone knows Minato is the best, until naruto surpasses him. The ones who are smart chose Minato as the winner.

Its me Raizen, and Shaunlim that are the defenders of this thread. So far we are winning in discussion. Got anymore "well Itachi/sasuke can do this.." points?

Bring it on

[nat]

Not really, people vote and don't even think about discussing it.
While if you read the past pages only a limited number supports Minato. Even the neutral ones give credit to the bros, Minato is good, I a not saying he isn't, But he is against 2 prodigies....

By logic he loses and till the stats gets translated from the DB3, I won't be discussing this stale argument anymore. Coz we are running in circle and you are repeating Hirashin Hirashi ....No offence, but it does get boring after 10 pages...

A voice that shouts the most doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth :D.
Everyone said Itachi is weaker that J-man then Bam, we have the data book and behold!! they are equals....So my advice, don't waste your breathe [it is the same as the NaruHina NaruSaku thread] wait a bit and then let the melee begin when we have more information than 3 Justu for Minato and the whole archive for the Bros...I'll be back by then...

ps, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, just saying what I think is best....
Ps II: You are ignoring Csdabest and Sarry, that is not nice...They are just as passionate and winning here as you trio are^^

[The Flash]

dont get me wrong. I'm just saying itachi and sasuke vs Minato willbe a close fight, But minato will win.

But the point i'm arguing the most is - Minato is > itachi individually, minato > sasuke is a no brainer.

Thanks to do the books. The discussion of Minato = Itachi is finally over
[hr]

Not really, people vote and don't even think about discussing it.
While if you read the past pages only a limited number supports Minato. Even the neutral ones give credits to the bros, Minato is good, I a not saying he isn't, But he is against 2 prodigies....

By logic he loses and till the stats gets translated from the CD3, I won't be discussing this stale argument anymore. Coz we are running in circle and you are repeating Hirashin Hirashi ....No offence, but it does get boring after 10 pages...

well what youve forgotten is Minato is the best. not just good. Databooks support it, and Kishimoto supports. What you have is nothing but speculation
[hr]
ok this is what you guys argued:

Minato being the best is dated.
The uchiha's can see the chakra of Hiraishin - a useless conversation since we dont know much about Hiraishin.

The topic that is worth discussing, since its the only one we have and know about Minato is his title and strength of a ninja.

According to the manga it is stated by many characters that Minato is the best
Then the second info to shut you guys up completely is from the data books

Itachi and Jiraiya is at 35.5 - And we all know Minato is greater than Jiraiya. heck even Jiraiya mentioned him how great he was before Jiraiya entered the battle against Pein.

There we go. I'm just content that Itachi = Minato is over. (this is DIRECTLY to Cdsabest)

[Baron Hugenstein]

CDSABEST - to shut your your one sided view

Handicapped Sasuke vs Hachibi v ---->(result) Handicapped Sasuke >(greater) Hachibi? I dont think so.

I consider this more of a "TAKA" victory than Sasuke's victory. Why? well when sasuke got GLORIOUSLY owned once by Hachibi - It was Karin that saved sasuke severe wounds. On the second try it was Hachibi that GLORIOUSLY owned sasuke by literally blowing up his chest - It was Juugo who saved his life while suigetsu delayed time by fighting Hachibi.

If it was a one-on-one. Game is over. Hachibi is winner.

And dont give me "well Sasuke went easy on him" - well Hachibi went pretty easy in using his swords - and "fortunately" gave sasuke severe wounds

Yes, Hachi who has total control and knowledge over bijuu can win against a Sasuke who just recently got his MS. But there was a reason Taka was there with Sasuke, it isn`t because he wants a mobile fan base with him. It is because he knows that there are strongers or more experinced ninjas and he will mostly likely fight them if he stays with Akatsuki.
Besides, what won the battle, was it Chidori or some jutsu from taka. No, It was the MS, the same Jutsu that you underestimate. Which would defeat Yondi if such a fight occur. And i don`t think i must explain it, since the manga actually shows how powerful it is.


_________________________________
too bad the databook crushes your idea of Itachi vs Minato will be an even battle.

If Itachi = Jiraiya, then Minato is > than Itachi. Oh And jiraiya is the one that bragge that minato is leaps beyond him. And that only a person like him comes once in a decade.

Oh Cdsabest - i believe it was you who said Itachi vs Minato would be an even fight. Oh ok thanks to the databook you keep talking about. Jiraiya = Itachi, but Minato >Jiraiya (leaps beyond Jiraiya) - therefore Minato > Itachi

Where does the DB say the Yondu surpassed Jiraiya??
Jiraiya saw Yondi as his own son, so it is natural that he would brag about him; much like he loved Naruto as his own grandson (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/405/13/). AS much i can see, Jiraiya > Minato, due to the fact that Jiraiya can use the senju mode, and we have zero indication that Minato can. Fukasaku didnt mention anything about the 4th, if you what you say is right, then he must have mentioned something about the 4th since he would gotten the senju mode better than Jiraiya...yet he hasn`t said a thing.
Also, how come Minato`s stats have a big? on it....well, because we still don`t know anything about him and it is dumb to even compare him to Ninjas we know everything about...





Oh if i dont recall, Naruto WILL surpass Minato. Making Naruto the best Ninja. It will come soon dont worry
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HMmm, Naruto has a long way to surpass Minato; Perhaps towards the end. He needs trainning(which he is getting) and he needs actual experince, which he lacks, since he didn`t fight a lot of ninjas, as compared to Sasuke or Neji.



oh the answer is simple, its because umm well its just common knowledge. Everyone knows Minato is the best, until naruto surpasses him. The ones who are smart chose Minato as the winner.

Its me Raizen, and Shaunlim that are the defenders of this thread. So far we are winning in discussion. Got anymore "well Itachi/sasuke can do this.." points?

Bring it on
Funny how Yondi will win with wind chakra or use some invisible kunai to teleport, and The bros will have sun in their eyes and their bodies will have cramps because they stayed up late the other night, right?

[The Flash]

ahaha do you really think Yondaime is not stronger than Jiraiya. C'mon now are you uchiha lovers that blind?
[hr]
^^^

once again another reply with no intelligence at all. Pretty irrelevant. Not worth discussing. Your just claiming things, give me some solid proof? I've heard your claim so many times

I have proof from the manga and databooks, and yet you have is your "well MS is strong" so?

Sharingan cant see through teleportation technique. since Hiraishin is in completely different dimension and is not a physical movement. Ameterasu isnt as fast. You want proof? Read the Itachi vs Sasuke battle again. In a blink of an eye, Minato will eliminate both.

[nat]

Just one last comment coz I can't leave it at that..Otherwise you will start singing victory over something stupid.

It was said by the village and the old Data books that he was the *greatest* and not strongest, ask Franckie or anyone to translate it for you..
As for me, Minato di not surpass Jiriya and I firmly believe that. Unless you back it up from Manga and not DB written when Madara was yet in Konoha, I can't take it as cannon...

As for Kishi, knowing his love for Sasuke not even Pein [I am affectionate of that name even though it should Pain] can stand in his way...So don't even go there...


A final note, you are losing credibility for your bashing and insulting others you know that...I support Itachi, but I do not resort to dissing people....

[The Flash]

Dont be a Hypocrite E-nat. Cdsabest was doing the samething as well. You were agreeing with him as well. So dont give me that. But in terms of the rules... in these forums - i will stop that.

Anyways....

Define greatest? look it up- funny how you let your fanboyness affect your definition of some words.

I'll give you some true History. Alexander the great defeated his teacher in a sword battle at the age of 9, he tamed a wild horse at an age of 11. Later on he brought all greece together, and conquered all of europe. Alexander is called Alexander the Great.

How about you look back into the defintion of the "greatest"

As for Jiraiya > Minato - is simply ridiculous. I guarantee over 95% of this people on Mangahelpers will disagree with you.

How about you make a poll on the character discussion?
[hr]
oh btw strongest - is a very firm and one-dimensional defintion. As for "greatest" - there are lot of meanings to it. I'd rather have Minato be known as the greatest, then strongest. Since greatest can also mean the best in his degree (strength or any other attributes)
[hr]

Just one last comment coz I can't leave it at that..Otherwise you will start singing victory over something stupid.

It was said by the village and the old Data books that he was the *greatest* and not strongest, ask Franckie or anyone to translate it for you..
As for me, Minato di not surpass Jiriya and I firmly believe that. Unless you back it up from Manga and not DB written when Madara was yet in Konoha, I can't take it as cannon...


Ok well umm. Jiraiya almost died against a 4th tailed naruto. Minato sealed the kyuubi. defeated the kyuubi
[hr]
I also believe when each tails grows out, the strength of the Kyuubi is exponentially stronger. so from a 9 tailed to a 4th tails... 5 tails difference.
[hr]
oh i've got more proof for Minato stronger than Jiraiya.

I forgot her name(she was taught by Orochimaru) - she ttalked about if Minato was still alive. Orochimaru wouldn't dare to invade or attack Konoha. Yet Jiraiya was still around, and oh yeah... he did go and try to stop Orochimaru but failed.

I know this isnt soilid proof that says Minato is stronger than Jiraiya, but these are tiny facts that support Minato is stronger.

And ofcourse the title Minato has triumps all.

I've got a question for you. If Jiraiya is bragging how strong/great talent/skillfull Minato was usualy indicates that minato was stronger than Jiraiya.

here read this chapter again: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/

"minato has talent only you see once in a decade, No one like him has been born awhile"

Now E-nat - give me some points that shows Jiraiya is stronger than Minato?

Its just amusing to see how once a fact comes out that proves you wrong, you try to find something else like : "well Jiraiya is stronger than minato" - To be honest with myself, its kind of sad

[Finale]

We haven't seen Minato in any significant one on one battles hence the true extent of his abilities are still unknown. Before we knew about Susanoo did anybody think that Itachi had a technique such as that? Its his trump card that he only brings out in a worse case scenario. This leads me to believe that the fourth has some uber technique we have yet to see. Despite what some may see as his reliance on Hiraishin, this technique enabled him to wipe out many ninjas, among them jounins without him being injured. It was stated earlier that shodai defeated Madara and that Itachi could just launch Amatarasu at the beginning of the fight and end it there. The shodai hasn't shown us anything resembling great speed yet he survived his battle with Madara. Its true that Uchihas should not be fought one on one but the Yellow Flash was not to be fought at all. The Senju clan was able to stand up to the Uchiha. To say somehow that Minato or the bros would trash the other side is still premature. It's likely that Kishi left the full extent of Minato's abilities unknown so that when they are possibly revealed later we all will just be wowed by them. Think about it. If we knew what all he could do earlier in the manga every technique that we saw for the rest of it would be held up in comparision as we are seeing now. If Kishi does plan on calling Minato the strongest ninja period, it's a good call to keep him shrouded in mystery so as to not have to power down other justu like amatarasu and others. Hence, as I said before, it would be a close battle.

[Baron Hugenstein]

ahaha do you really think Yondaime is not stronger than Jiraiya. C'mon now are you uchiha lovers that blind?
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^^^

once again another reply with no intelligence at all. Pretty irrelevant. Not worth discussing. Your just claiming things, give me some solid proof? I've heard your claim so many times

I have proof from the manga and databooks, and yet you have is your "well MS is strong" so?

Sharingan cant see through teleportation technique. since Hiraishin is in completely different dimension and is not a physical movement. Ameterasu isnt as fast. You want proof? Read the Itachi vs Sasuke battle again. In a blink of an eye, Minato will eliminate both.

Hmmm, proof huh?

Reread my earlier posts carfully and you will get your proof and answers.
This thread/subject has become way too stale; Because everything has already been said a million times.

The sharingan can see where Kunais are, even if they are a 100 meters away...read Deidara's last battle.

show me the page where it says the Minato is stronger that Jiraya, and a praise from the manga isn't a proof or a solid statement. Neji was praised to be the best of his generation and that Naruto won't be able to sctrach him. Look what happened then, Naruto won and defeated Neji. That random rock ninja that was pawned by Jiraiya was praised by the guy next to him to be very powerful, but truely even tonton would have pawned him, tnhen he probably would have had a huge and amazing victory dance:darn.

[kkck]

maybe, but, what if the physical reaction time is slower than their eyes' prediction of trajectory...

Seriously, Sasuke gets to be killed first then it will be the 4th against Itachi on a close fight though... But I'm rooting for Minato all the way

Ninjas with less than avarage skills can block kunai or other projectiles with their own kunai and they dont even have sharingan. The odds of minato being able to throw a kunai at a speed that can overcome the prediction ability and reflexes of those two brothers are very slim.
It is a very big and unlikely what if.

[Csdabest]

Dont be a Hypocrite E-nat. Cdsabest was doing the samething as well. You were agreeing with him as well. So dont give me that. But in terms of the rules... in these forums - i will stop that.

Anyways....

Define greatest? look it up- funny how you let your fanboyness affect your definition of some words.

I'll give you some true History. Alexander the great defeated his teacher in a sword battle at the age of 9, he tamed a wild horse at an age of 11. Later on he brought all greece together, and conquered all of europe. Alexander is called Alexander the Great.

How about you look back into the defintion of the "greatest"

As for Jiraiya > Minato - is simply ridiculous. I guarantee over 95% of this people on Mangahelpers will disagree with you.

How about you make a poll on the character discussion?
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oh btw strongest - is a very firm and one-dimensional defintion. As for "greatest" - there are lot of meanings to it. I'd rather have Minato be known as the greatest, then strongest. Since greatest can also mean the best in his degree (strength or any other attributes)
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Ok well umm. Jiraiya almost died against a 4th tailed naruto. Minato sealed the kyuubi. defeated the kyuubi
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I also believe when each tails grows out, the strength of the Kyuubi is exponentially stronger. so from a 9 tailed to a 4th tails... 5 tails difference.
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oh i've got more proof for Minato stronger than Jiraiya.

I forgot her name(she was taught by Orochimaru) - she ttalked about if Minato was still alive. Orochimaru wouldn't dare to invade or attack Konoha. Yet Jiraiya was still around, and oh yeah... he did go and try to stop Orochimaru but failed.

I know this isnt soilid proof that says Minato is stronger than Jiraiya, but these are tiny facts that support Minato is stronger.

And ofcourse the title Minato has triumps all.

I've got a question for you. If Jiraiya is bragging how strong/great talent/skillfull Minato was usualy indicates that minato was stronger than Jiraiya.

here read this chapter again: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/11/

"minato has talent only you see once in a decade, No one like him has been born awhile"

Now E-nat - give me some points that shows Jiraiya is stronger than Minato?

Its just amusing to see how once a fact comes out that proves you wrong, you try to find something else like : "well Jiraiya is stronger than minato" - To be honest with myself, its kind of sad

Your using little facts and leaving out some facts as well. Jiraya didnt have anyhelpd against the 4-tails. Minato on the other hand. HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE ENTIRE VILLAGE. CHuunins and jounins. All the shinobi were visibly seen helping him. Even had the help of gambunta. He used shikifujin the death god summoning to seal away the 9-tails. And died doing it. But now your using a-b-c logic. Cuz technically. Sasuke could take down the 9-tails without being killed. Would that put him leagues above the 9-tails.
Hell he took down the 8-tails with two jutsu as everyone indicates. A bijuu with a host which are said to be more powerful since the power in control. the 9-tails was a wild beast w/o a host. Jiraya left the village along with Tsunade. And were no longer considered to reside in konoha. So Orochimaru attacked and didnt take into the account of Jiraya or Tsunade.

Also the greatest and strongest are two different things. Take Ali and Mike Tyson. Ali is great and could be about any boxer Was known as the greatest. In his prime. But he was still beaten. Mike Tyson is one of the strongest boxers to touch gloves. he has the capabilities to beat mike tyson and his strong enough. And has the hands to do it. Though Ali may beat Tyson Tyson is still stronger.And will give Ali a run for his money and could knock him out. Now. Take Ali vs Tyson and put Ray Mercer in the mix. Or another Tyson, Hollyfield who ever someone who is in the league or is bordeirng the league. And Ali would get destroyed. Minato can be the greatest but he is not the strongest shinobi.and can be beaten Specially if he outnumbered.

Another example. The persian army was known as a great army. very vast and great. But Spartan and greek thought out numbered were the stronger army.

There is such a different between great and strong. Great football player. And the strongest football player.

Itachi>Jiraya. Itachi is only held back by his stamina. So skillfully speaking he surpassed jiraya. And Sasuke is comparable to them just have a little ways to go. Minato is not beating two people of this caliber at the same time.

[Konkun]

Your using little facts and leaving out some facts as well. Jiraya didnt have anyhelpd against the 4-tails. Minato on the other hand. HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE ENTIRE VILLAGE. CHuunins and jounins. All the shinobi were visibly seen helping him. Even had the help of gambunta. He used shikifujin the death god summoning to seal away the 9-tails. And died doing it. But now your using a-b-c logic. Cuz technically. Sasuke could take down the 9-tails without being killed. Would that put him leagues above the 9-tails.
Hell he took down the 8-tails with two jutsu as everyone indicates. A bijuu with a host which are said to be more powerful since the power in control. the 9-tails was a wild beast w/o a host.

I think the defeat of 8-Tails is pretty much like the fight between Gaara and Naruto. All Naruto had to do was knock Gaara out of his sleep jutsu to dispel Shusaku (Shusaku was getting more power as Gaara falling deeper into sleep). Similarly, Amaretasu was hurting the 8-Tails, and Killerbee at the same time. However, Killerbee, could not withstand the pain thus 8-Tails was dispelled. If not for the host, 8-Tails would not have gone down that easy, and Sasuke would probably get caught up in his own jutsu.

As for the comment about Sasuke taking down 9-tails......Sasuke is not at the level of Madara in his prime yet.

[Csdabest]

Im sorry but I throughly disagree. The 8tails would have gotten completely eaten away by the amaterasu and it was infact killing the 8-tails. If Sasuke didnt stop amaterasu 8-tails would have died. Not only that but Sasuke could have defended himself in with chidori eisou. Also Sasuke has the tools to defeat 9-tails. He alread surpressed it chakra. AMaterasu which can kill it or atleast severly harm it. and if push comes to shove. He could always use Susano'o. He doesnt have to be at Madara's level to take down the 9-tails. Specially since it says he was able to tame it to be his pet.
[hr]

CDSABEST - to shut your your one sided view

Handicapped Sasuke vs Hachibi v ---->(result) Handicapped Sasuke >(greater) Hachibi? I dont think so.

If it was a one-on-one. Game is over. Hachibi is winner.

And dont give me "well Sasuke went easy on him" - well Hachibi went pretty easy in using his swords - and "fortunately" gave sasuke severe wounds

_________________________________
too bad the databook crushes your idea of Itachi vs Minato will be an even battle.

If Itachi = Jiraiya, then Minato is > than Itachi. Oh And jiraiya is the one that bragge that minato is leaps beyond him. And that only a person like him comes once in a decade.

Oh Cdsabest - i believe it was you who said Itachi vs Minato would be an even fight. Oh ok thanks to the databook you keep talking about. Jiraiya = Itachi, but Minato >Jiraiya (leaps beyond Jiraiya) - therefore Minato > Itachi

Oh if i dont recall, Naruto WILL surpass Minato. Making Naruto the best Ninja. It will come soon dont worry


Also simple wording doesnt amount to anything. Where did it clearly say that Jiraya was surpassed by Minato. Specially after Minato death. And jiraya had time to grow further. Jiraya has only been seen to glorify his student and that he wishes he was his son. If minatio had lived yes of course he would have surpassed Jiraya by those leaps and bounds. But guess what. he died in his early mid 20. Please stop bring utter BS speculation into the argument. If his stats get revealed and they are only like 33 or 34.5 what the hell will you say then. Hell Kakashi could probably beat Minato now specially since he knows minato and his jutsu and how hirashin works witnessing it first hand/. Minato era has passed. Jiraya and Tsunade just talked about how wonderful he was.

Considering that sasuke defeated the 8-tails while handicap. At his form. Yes....Handicap sasuke>8-tails. Specially if it was a to kill battle. they were not trying to kill him and was trying to capture. the 8-tals had no regard for his life showing he wasnt messing around. What Sasuke has shown in his previous battles its obvious to see he was capable handeling that. Sasuke got only got injured when he was careless and dropped his guard. Not actually being outmanuvered. Sasuke was still injured from his itachi fight and hadnt recovered which obviously proves Sasuke wasnt himself during that battle. Specially the taijutsu battle. Where he got hurt being careless while he was hurt. Now in the jinmode. Sasuke was able to read his movements. he thought the hachibi was down for the count with tsukiyomi. dropped his guard and got hit. Now if sasuke wasnt trying to capture him. Amaterasu would have been the better choice.

To further confirm sasuke was holding back he blantanly mentioned it in the conversation with Juugo that he didnt want to take it that far. One on one Sasuke would have beaten the 8-tai;ls in a fight to kill match. Also hachibi ddint go easy. He stabbed to kill him and was shocked when sasuke was still alive using raiton to manuvere the sword away from his vitals.

Also I still beleive Itachi and Minato equal. technically Itachi surpassed Jiraya. If you look at the skill chart the only thing up to par is his stamina and thats because of his illness. Itachi could possinley beat minato having a better skill set. Minato biggest asset and weapon is Hirashin cuz it zips him around the battle field. Thing is its limited. And if the secret is known. Then The jutsu is useless. Since Kakashi knows the jutsu and kakashi is no Joke Im pretty sure Kakashi could handel minato or atleast give him run for his money. thing about itachi and sasuke they dont know the jutsu. Also thing about minato he doesnt know about MS. or its jutsu so hed be screwd. All itachi has to do is point a finger at the beginning of the battle. While minato trying to break out. Sasuke scoops in with a shunshin and beheads him.

[Konkun]

Im sorry but I throughly disagree. The 8tails would have gotten completely eaten away by the amaterasu and it was infact killing the 8-tails. If Sasuke didnt stop amaterasu 8-tails would have died. Not only that but Sasuke could have defended himself in with chidori eisou. Also Sasuke has the tools to defeat 9-tails. He alread surpressed it chakra. AMaterasu which can kill it or atleast severly harm it. and if push comes to shove. He could always use Susano'o. He doesnt have to be at Madara's level to take down the 9-tails. Specially since it says he was able to tame it to be his pet.
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Also simple wording doesnt amount to anything. Where did it clearly say that Jiraya was surpassed by Minato. Specially after Minato death. And jiraya had time to grow further. Jiraya has only been seen to glorify his student and that he wishes he was his son. If minatio had lived yes of course he would have surpassed Jiraya by those leaps and bounds. But guess what. he died in his early mid 20. Please stop bring utter BS speculation into the argument. If his stats get revealed and they are only like 33 or 34.5 what the hell will you say then. Hell Kakashi could probably beat Minato now specially since he knows minato and his jutsu and how hirashin works witnessing it first hand/. Minato era has passed. Jiraya and Tsunade just talked about how wonderful he was.

Considering that sasuke defeated the 8-tails while handicap. At his form. Yes....Handicap sasuke>8-tails. Specially if it was a to kill battle. they were not trying to kill him and was trying to capture. the 8-tals had no regard for his life showing he wasnt messing around. What Sasuke has shown in his previous battles its obvious to see he was capable handeling that. Sasuke got only got injured when he was careless and dropped his guard. Not actually being outmanuvered. Sasuke was still injured from his itachi fight and hadnt recovered which obviously proves Sasuke wasnt himself during that battle. Specially the taijutsu battle. Where he got hurt being careless while he was hurt. Now in the jinmode. Sasuke was able to read his movements. he thought the hachibi was down for the count with tsukiyomi. dropped his guard and got hit. Now if sasuke wasnt trying to capture him. Amaterasu would have been the better choice.

To further confirm sasuke was holding back he blantanly mentioned it in the conversation with Juugo that he didnt want to take it that far. One on one Sasuke would have beaten the 8-tai;ls in a fight to kill match. Also hachibi ddint go easy. He stabbed to kill him and was shocked when sasuke was still alive using raiton to manuvere the sword away from his vitals.

Also I still beleive Itachi and Minato equal. technically Itachi surpassed Jiraya. If you look at the skill chart the only thing up to par is his stamina and thats because of his illness. Itachi could possinley beat minato having a better skill set. Minato biggest asset and weapon is Hirashin cuz it zips him around the battle field. Thing is its limited. And if the secret is known. Then The jutsu is useless. Since Kakashi knows the jutsu and kakashi is no Joke Im pretty sure Kakashi could handel minato or atleast give him run for his money. thing about itachi and sasuke they dont know the jutsu. Also thing about minato he doesnt know about MS. or its jutsu so hed be screwd. All itachi has to do is point a finger at the beginning of the battle. While minato trying to break out. Sasuke scoops in with a shunshin and beheads him.

Sasuke only suppressed a fraction of KB escaping the seal. This doesnt say anything about him capable of beating KB, it just to show his progress of coming THAT deep into the mind of Naruto. KB has unlimited power, it can easily overcome Amaterasu with its own power. As for the speculations about his 'carelessness', he made too many mistakes, and was saved twice.

[The Flash]

cdsabest - just look up the word on dictionary.com of greatest.

-The best in his degree(degree such as strength or any other attribute) -

Ali was known for his fast footwork and jab - basically speed. He was super fast. Does that mean Greatest mean the best speed.

greatest can mean many things. Greatest country - can be a country the best in military, best in economics. or what not.

[Shaunlim]

I really don't know how much more true the statements made by those mentioned character could get more true. And there are devored Sasuke lovers as well on this site. Only reason people is pissed about that fight is that it got ended in such a lame way. Not saying that amateratsu is lame but it's just one S rank jutsu and that's it ?? Killerbee was in bijuu mode afterall which is the second strongest creature in the Narutoverse after Kyuubi so yea.......



I never mentioned wind or KBs but yea others have. Anyways, no said the kunai had to hit the bros just land around them that's it. He can still teleport to the location of the kunai on the floor. Just because your fast and good in taijutsu doesn't mean you would realise every single thing that your opponent is doing especially if it is a high speed one. As for CN, I have said it loads of times already. Forget KB forget Wind. All you need is explosive tags. You fail to realise that CN is not all that similar to Neji's Kaiten. I have shown proof of how fast Minato was as well without Hiraishin which is at the very least as fast as Sasuke's.
Genjutsu type attacks: Genjutsu doesn't auto-cast so even if you look at the sharingan, you won't get genjutsu'ed unless the uchiha realises it and actually casting it and seeing this is a high speed battle.....
Amateratsu : Just simply running from it would cause Itachi to die faster as it would drain his chakra. You could even escape with a Kawamiri. Even Sasuke managed to outrun it and probably got hit because he wanted to prepare Kirin.
Susano'o : Just outrun it as well. Chakra drain would kill Itachi. As it causes Itachi's Sharingan/MS to go off, he won't be able to predict movements at his best. Not to mention that the sealing sword need to stab you rather than just slice you making it even harder as Yondai is much smaller than hydra orochimaru and faster as well.



You are forgetting the basic jutsus. Even though they are not all powerful, by all means they are still useful. Yes I did, as those were the only panel showing the battle. Unless you want to go into imagination then it's a different story. Whether shodai had KG or not is not the point here. What I'm trying to say is that there are ways to counter Madara's jutsu that's all. A young Madara which had EMS and was said to spam MS till he was blind. I'm pretty sure he figured quite a lot already at that time. He was even said to figure out the last secret of the sharingan so.......

Seriously read my post....

About how Itachi = Jiraiya and how he would win Jiraiya if he was not sick, lowering his stamina. Jiraiya's stat was not him in hermit mode which drastically increases his combat abilities and actually rejuvenates his stamina. So what if Itachi have more stamina and can spam more amateratsu ?? If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how much it is spam. Like I have said, all Jiraiya has to do is to run away.

@sarry for the kunai thing, I have mentioned it loads of time. So what if it is deflected or fall on the floors, he could still teleport there without the bros knowing since they don't know how hiraishin work or whether it exist or not. They just know he is fast.

@CSdabest It is Taka's victory no matter how you see it. If Sasuke was fighting one on one, he would have died earlier. Don't give me Sasuke was not serious, he was careless or he was injured. A ninja should know well what to do when in a fight. Who's to blame if he was that confidence. Not to mention if Suigetsu wasn't there to block the uber kamehameha by the 8th tail, Sasuke would have died another time. Not to mention his Amateratsu was somewhat used after he thought of Taka as team 7.....

[Eddy01741]

My my this is such a god damned stupid topic. When in a 2 v 1 battle, the power of two of the contenders is unknown, then there is absolutely no way of knowing who would win. Thus far we know:
Sasuke's power (post itachi battle)

Thus far we do not know:
MInato's power, sure, he can use rasengan, shunshin, hiraishin, and toad summonings, jutsu's do not determine the power of a ninja (which orochimaru obviously never learned). We also know that he was praised highly by sandaime and the sannnin.

Itachi's power, his fight with Kakashi pre timeskip was a walk in the park, and he wasn't going all out against Sasuke, so we don't know his full power (assuming he is not dying). We also know that Itachi was a genius, anbu captain at 13, sharingan at 8.


So, how can we try and predict the outcome of a battle in which two of three contenders have unknown limits to their power? We cannot. Even doing stupid arguments like Itachi>Jiraiya can't be proven.

[Finale]

Also Sasuke has the tools to defeat 9-tails. He alread surpressed it chakra. AMaterasu which can kill it or atleast severly harm it. and if push comes to shove. He could always use Susano'o. He doesnt have to be at Madara's level to take down the 9-tails. Specially since it says he was able to tame it to be his pet.
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But guess what. he died in his early mid 20. Please stop bring utter BS speculation into the argument. If his stats get revealed and they are only like 33 or 34.5 what the hell will you say then. Hell Kakashi could probably beat Minato now specially since he knows minato and his jutsu and how hirashin works witnessing it first hand/. Minato era has passed. Jiraya and Tsunade just talked about how wonderful he was.

Considering that sasuke defeated the 8-tails while handicap. At his form. Yes....Handicap sasuke>8-tails. Specially if it was a to kill battle. they were not trying to kill him and was trying to capture. the 8-tals had no regard for his life showing he wasnt messing around. What Sasuke has shown in his previous battles its obvious to see he was capable handeling that. Sasuke got only got injured when he was careless and dropped his guard. Not actually being outmanuvered. Sasuke was still injured from his itachi fight and hadnt recovered which obviously proves Sasuke wasnt himself during that battle. Specially the taijutsu battle. Where he got hurt being careless while he was hurt. Now in the jinmode. Sasuke was able to read his movements. he thought the hachibi was down for the count with tsukiyomi. dropped his guard and got hit. Now if sasuke wasnt trying to capture him. Amaterasu would have been the better choice.


Also I still beleive Itachi and Minato equal. technically Itachi surpassed Jiraya. If you look at the skill chart the only thing up to par is his stamina and thats because of his illness. Itachi could possinley beat minato having a better skill set. Minato biggest asset and weapon is Hirashin cuz it zips him around the battle field. Thing is its limited. And if the secret is known. Then The jutsu is useless. Since Kakashi knows the jutsu and kakashi is no Joke Im pretty sure Kakashi could handel minato or atleast give him run for his money. thing about itachi and sasuke they dont know the jutsu. Also thing about minato he doesnt know about MS. or its jutsu so hed be screwd. All itachi has to do is point a finger at the beginning of the battle. While minato trying to break out. Sasuke scoops in with a shunshin and beheads him.

On your first point Sasuke only suspressed an already supressed Kyuubi.

2. Kakashi pissed himself before Orochimaru and was pushed to the limit in a team battle against Kakuzu he definately couldn't take Minato.

3. Sasuke didn't defeat the Eight-tails, Taka did. You speak about how Sasuke was handicapped but the eight-tails was as well. He's fighting against four people not knowing when they may jump in. He can't give Sasuke his undivided attention. However I still think that had Sasuke pulled out Amatarasu that the eight-tails still would have went down and that Kishi is going to have to show us an effective counter.

4. I'm sure plenty of enemy ninja know about Minato abilities they're probably the ones that gave him his nickname.The only way for them not to know is if Minato killed every enemy ninja that has ever seen him fight and Konaha didn't have any defectors or spies, all of which is unlikely. Even still he was a do not face ninja during the war. I would love to have a gaiden chapter showing how he got the nickname, he clearly killed some very powerful opponents at some point.

5. I personally am not a huge Sasuke fan. I like what I know about Minato and I respect Itachi. Everyone needs to give credit where credit is due.

[Csdabest]

On your first point Sasuke only suspressed an already supressed Kyuubi.

2. Kakashi pissed himself before Orochimaru and was pushed to the limit in a team battle against Kakuzu he definately couldn't take Minato.

3. Sasuke didn't defeat the Eight-tails, Taka did. You speak about how Sasuke was handicapped but the eight-tails was as well. He's fighting against four people not knowing when they may jump in. He can't give Sasuke his undivided attention. However I still think that had Sasuke pulled out Amatarasu that the eight-tails still would have went down and that Kishi is going to have to show us an effective counter.

4. I'm sure plenty of enemy ninja know about Minato abilities they're probably the ones that gave him his nickname.The only way for them not to know is if Minato killed every enemy ninja that has ever seen him fight and Konaha didn't have any defectors or spies, all of which is unlikely. Even still he was a do not face ninja during the war. I would love to have a gaiden chapter showing how he got the nickname, he clearly killed some very powerful opponents at some point.

5. I personally am not a huge Sasuke fan. I like what I know about Minato and I respect Itachi. Everyone needs to give credit where credit is due.


The 3rd wanted to Orochimaru to be hokage over Minato. Chose minato cuz of his evil ways. Thats pre-time Kakashi and Orochimaru used a genjutsu to make kakashi see his death scaring the shit out of him. Just like he did to Sasuke and Sakura.

Kakashi didnt know of kakauzu ability and pwned him with one blow killing his hearts. And didnt use his MS technique. Thing with Minato. He knows throughly of Minato technique and how it is done. Giving an advantage. Minato wouldn't know of Kakashi ability now adays. Kakashi stays away from Minato's kunais and tags. He should be safe. Raikiri is stronger than Regular rasengan in which Minato possess therefor it should beat the clash. seeing as Sasuke Chidroi and Naruto Rasengan clashed It was dead even.

Enemy shinobi only knew of Minato. Not directly his ability and how it was done. Just know that he mvoes fast until he seems like a yellow flash. The Rock nin didnt know how he moved so fast. Just saw that he did and most likely didnt even know how the attack was done.

Kakashi knows of Minato technique and will stay away from minato and we will see a Raikiri clash beating Regular Rasengan. Or kakashi using his spacetimew jutsu to rip Minato limb by limb or blow his head off. Or minato using ShikiFujin ending it in a stale maye. Or Summoning only for kakashi to blow a hole in the summoning.

So technically. Kakashi could very well beat Minato. Seeing as Minato just has the art of surpise with his technique. And no one really knows how its done. Uchiha or a sharingan user is the best counter to minato technique. And once its found out he is basically screwed.
[hr]

Seriously read my post....

About how Itachi = Jiraiya and how he would win Jiraiya if he was not sick, lowering his stamina. Jiraiya's stat was not him in hermit mode which drastically increases his combat abilities and actually rejuvenates his stamina. So what if Itachi have more stamina and can spam more amateratsu ?? If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how much it is spam. Like I have said, all Jiraiya has to do is to run away.

@sarry for the kunai thing, I have mentioned it loads of time. So what if it is deflected or fall on the floors, he could still teleport there without the bros knowing since they don't know how hiraishin work or whether it exist or not. They just know he is fast.

@CSdabest It is Taka's victory no matter how you see it. If Sasuke was fighting one on one, he would have died earlier. Don't give me Sasuke was not serious, he was careless or he was injured. A ninja should know well what to do when in a fight. Who's to blame if he was that confidence. Not to mention if Suigetsu wasn't there to block the uber kamehameha by the 8th tail, Sasuke would have died another time. Not to mention his Amateratsu was somewhat used after he thought of Taka as team 7.....

Um how do you know Jiraya stats was not in hermit mode.The stats show the chaacter best showing. Stop making excuses. Itachi would wipe the floor with Jiraya cuz they are on par with Itachi a little higher in shinobi skill than Jiraya. And with jutsu from Mangekyo puts him above him easily.

Um. Im sorry its not me making the excuse. Its the manga and evidence from the manga. Not me. The manga is giving it to you. Taka was not fighting to kill. Sasuke was overconfident. Carelessness. Charging in head one with chidori Gatana w/o and not even his fastest pseed using shunshin. Then once his attack is block why not go for another atatck and not go for a counter or move away. Sasuke has shown the speed to avoid it. And he didnt. Taka and Hachibi made full blown sentences. Showing Sasuke was hurt and couldn't avoid the attack cuz his body couldnt handle ti. So he got stabed. Showing carelessness and him being hurt. Second time. Thinking tsukiyomi would work and leaving his back turned to hachibi letting his guard down. trun around and got hit with a clothes lined cuz his guard was down taking a breather. Hmmm maybe cuz he still hasnt recovered. And wasnt this the onlu two times the hachibi really hurt Sasuke was cuz of Sasuke fault and to topple that he was handicapped. And Taka were not trying to kill him at the beginning of the fight. Even in the mist of when they turned it up. And what happen when they turned it up. Hachibo got corner and got knocked out.

Now. Lets rewind. What do you think would have happen if Sasuke was 100% and was trying to kill him. Sort of like how He was in the fight with Itachi. The manga said he wasnt 100% cuz of the Itachi fans. No one even thought he was still hurt from the fight.

[Finale]

So you're saying that all Minato has is the element of surprise? So all of Minato encounters were of him surprising enemy ninja? Minato will just charge Kakashi head on with a rasengan while Kakashi has a Raikiri? Kakashi only got Kakuzu with that attack because he didn't see him coming. After that, the fight went downhill for him. You keep talking about how Kakashi knows about Minato's justus but the same is true in reverse since Minato was kakashi's teacher. Kakakshi MS attacks take time to charge up and he doesn't have a lot of chakra whereas we can assume that Minato has quite a bit since he was able to seal the Kyuubi which is the most powerful beast. And as far as the third wanting Orochimaru to be Hokage, I wouldn't want Minato stuck behind a desk until he gets older. Kages are like the last line of defense for their villages. Having a powerful and intelligent Orochimaru making decisions while having Jariya and Minato out in the field would have been a very ideal situation to have.

[Csdabest]

So you're saying that all Minato has is the element of surprise? So all of Minato encounters were of him surprising enemy ninja? Minato will just charge Kakashi head on with a rasengan while Kakashi has a Raikiri? Kakashi only got Kakuzu with that attack because he didn't see him coming. After that, the fight went downhill for him. You keep talking about how Kakashi knows about Minato's justus but the same is true in reverse since Minato was kakashi's teacher. Kakakshi MS attacks take time to charge up and he doesn't have a lot of chakra whereas we can assume that Minato has quite a bit since he was able to seal the Kyuubi which is the most powerful beast. And as far as the third wanting Orochimaru to be Hokage, I wouldn't want Minato stuck behind a desk until he gets older. Kages are like the last line of defense for their villages. Having a powerful and intelligent Orochimaru making decisions while having Jariya and Minato out in the field would have been a very ideal situation to have.


Took the element of supriase comment abit to serious and literal. No one really knows how the attack is done and is vary limited. all they will see is a tag placed or a kunai thrown and he will zip and thats all they will basically see being shocked. Thats all to the technique. But once the secrets of that technique is found out. It not nearly as dangerous or effective. Because they will know the technique is restricted to where the tags and kunais are. And will know where he pops up and know the location where he can zip to.

Once that technique busted open. Minato will not be as effective anymore. Judging by his battle shown he seems to rely heavily on hIrashin to handle the situation. Since Kakashi knows minato techniques. And how they are done then he has a high chance of defeating Minato because he knows his tricks. His main one and could render them useless. Minato knows kakashi but kakashi has learned alot and develop since minato was his teacher And doesnt know everything about kakashi anymore. Also once kakashi locked on to the target they seemed to have a problem moving. Just like Dei did. Minato wouldnt know what he was doing until Kakashi had him locked in. This is called element of surpise because of an unknown or know hall. Which is Minato biggest advanatage with hirashi.

[Bones]

I don't mean sound rude people, but what is the point of this thread since there's like 1%info on Minato compared to Itachi and Sasuke.

If you check the Databook3, Minato stats has a question mark. This is the only method I think would be close to logical but theres is also flaws in it.

Sasuke total stats = 31.5/40
Itachi totl stats = 35.5/40
Jiraiya total stats = 35.5/40

In the manga its said that Minato surpass Jiraiya, therefore his stats should be >35.5.

Flaws in this method.

1)Stats are based off 8 things nin, tai, gen, spe, etc. But some people are better in other areas so we don't really know how it will play out in battle and shinobis at high level are aware of thier weakness and find ways to make up for it. The only person that can decide the outcome is KISHI.

2) I hate Sasuke, but that will not cloud my mind or not be realistic. So after this Hachibi fight maybe Sasuke stats move up, but he only improve in ninjutsu and he already have a 5 in ninjutsu. But theres no doubt Sasuke stats will move up soon.

In conclusion you can't say who will win in battle based off nothing on one of the oppenent.

[Csdabest]

I don't mean sound rude people, but what is the point of this thread since there's like 1%info on Minato compared to Itachi and Sasuke.

If you check the Databook3, Minato stats has a question mark. This is the only method I think would be close to logical but theres is also flaws in it.

Sasuke total stats = 31.5/40
Itachi totl stats = 35.5/40
Jiraiya total stats = 35.5/40

In the manga its said that Minato surpass Jiraiya, therefore his stats should be >35.5.

Flaws in this method.

1)Stats are based off 8 things nin, tai, gen, spe, etc. But some people are better in other areas so we don't really know how it will play out in battle and shinobis at high level are aware of thier weakness and find ways to make up for it. The only person that can decide the outcome is KISHI.

2) I hate Sasuke, but that will not cloud my mind or not be realistic. So after this Hachibi fight maybe Sasuke stats move up, but he only improve in ninjutsu and he already have a 5 in ninjutsu. But theres no doubt Sasuke stats will move up soon.

In conclusion you can't say who will win in battle based off nothing on one of the oppenent.


I agree on with you. But I think Sasuke Tai went up as well because he seems better w/o Tai checking out his moves in the beginning w/o Sharingan activated.

Thing is. Like i said in the DB discussion. Stats are base. They wont neccessarily place a character above another one. It could be possible that Minato has Sasuke stats but jutsu that place him above and surpass other characters in the manga. Like Pein. He claim Jiraya was better but he had skills to surpass Jiraya and kill him.

[Bones]

He claim Jiraya was better but he had skills to surpass Jiraya and kill him.

HE DID. This is Pain we are talking about with KAMI personality. I am God....lol Show me link please...lol

And the other stuff you said are right and possible.

[Csdabest]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/383/13/
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

Here he says Jiraya would have won if it wasnt for his secret. That secret obviously being he has more than 3 bodies and the abilities of Rinnegan.

So basically this could translate as. Jiraya stats are higher than pein. But because of Peins kekkei genkei and abilities. He is superior than jiraya.

[Bones]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/383/13/
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

Here he says Jiraya would have won if it wasnt for his secret. That secret obviously being he has more than 3 bodies and the abilities of Rinnegan.

So basically this could translate as. Jiraya stats are higher than pein. But because of Peins kekkei genkei and abilities. He is superior than jiraya.

You made it sound like Pain said it out straight. "Jiraiya was better." I have read that link alot of times...lol. I always refer to that link, that Pain's secret was the adavantage in that battle. But I still think Pain has more to offer, no wonder there was question mark on his stats.

[Csdabest]

Quite possible. Maybe Kishi is waiting to reveal until Peins final battle.

[Shaunlim]

Um how do you know Jiraya stats was not in hermit mode.The stats show the chaacter best showing. Stop making excuses. Itachi would wipe the floor with Jiraya cuz they are on par with Itachi a little higher in shinobi skill than Jiraya. And with jutsu from Mangekyo puts him above him easily.
As simple as why Sakura's strength is lower than Naruto and Sasuke or why Naruto's stat expect stamina is not affected by the kyuubi. Those are enchants from kyuubi or chakra control or jutsu. Seeing that Hermit-mode is a type of jutsu.....it's like saying that Gai and Lee's stat is based on opening of the gate...


Um. Im sorry its not me making the excuse. Its the manga and evidence from the manga. Not me. The manga is giving it to you. Taka was not fighting to kill. Sasuke was overconfident. Carelessness. Charging in head one with chidori Gatana w/o and not even his fastest pseed using shunshin. Then once his attack is block why not go for another atatck and not go for a counter or move away. Sasuke has shown the speed to avoid it. And he didnt. Taka and Hachibi made full blown sentences. Showing Sasuke was hurt and couldn't avoid the attack cuz his body couldnt handle ti. So he got stabed. Showing carelessness and him being hurt. Second time. Thinking tsukiyomi would work and leaving his back turned to hachibi letting his guard down. trun around and got hit with a clothes lined cuz his guard was down taking a breather. Hmmm maybe cuz he still hasnt recovered. And wasnt this the onlu two times the hachibi really hurt Sasuke was cuz of Sasuke fault and to topple that he was handicapped. And Taka were not trying to kill him at the beginning of the fight. Even in the mist of when they turned it up. And what happen when they turned it up. Hachibo got corner and got knocked out.

Now. Lets rewind. What do you think would have happen if Sasuke was 100% and was trying to kill him. Sort of like how He was in the fight with Itachi. The manga said he wasnt 100% cuz of the Itachi fans. No one even thought he was still hurt from the fight.

1. you need to reread what suigetsu said about being serious and fighting to kill and yet killerbee was unharmed except shocked a bit...
2.If Sasuke is careless and not careful that means his limit is just at that level. Are you going to say that every victory won due to the opponent is not counted ???
3.Since when was it said that Sasuke was hurt so bad that he couldn't even run away from an attack. He jumped in attacked just fine with some acrobatic move. Seriously, the only wound receive by Sasuke during the Itachi fight was a Katon burn from a C class jutsu.
4. Sasuke got weak by using MS and got stabbed before. And the whole turning back was probably in a second or two so there was nothing for Sasuke to do at that point. Just because he got careless doesn't mean that killerbee's victory is rubbish.
5. If they were both at 100%, Sasuke would have still died from either the stabbing, jin super clothes line or the super bijuu blast......
6. If a ninja is careless then obviously it is his own flaws. Meaning his weakness.....seriously even konohamaru could kill a careless hokage...all he has to do is slit the hokages throat.

[Csdabest]

1. you need to reread what suigetsu said about being serious and fighting to kill and yet killerbee was unharmed except shocked a bit...
2.If Sasuke is careless and not careful that means his limit is just at that level. Are you going to say that every victory won due to the opponent is not counted ???
3.Since when was it said that Sasuke was hurt so bad that he couldn't even run away from an attack. He jumped in attacked just fine with some acrobatic move. Seriously, the only wound receive by Sasuke during the Itachi fight was a Katon burn from a C class jutsu.
4. Sasuke got weak by using MS and got stabbed before. And the whole turning back was probably in a second or two so there was nothing for Sasuke to do at that point. Just because he got careless doesn't mean that killerbee's victory is rubbish.
5. If they were both at 100%, Sasuke would have still died from either the stabbing, jin super clothes line or the super bijuu blast......
6. If a ninja is careless then obviously it is his own flaws. Meaning his weakness.....seriously even konohamaru could kill a careless hokage...all he has to do is slit the hokages throat.

1. Kbee was hurt. The attack and shock brought him to his knees and made him yell out in pain.
2. It was careless of him to go into a battle while he wasnt 100%.
3. Look at all the past Sasuke fights. You would think he could dodge an attack. He had ample enough time. He sat their and stared at Hachibi and even let him say sentence befor he got struck. Obviously because his body was sitll injured cuz and wasnt able to move as smoothly. Sasuke walked into the battle looking under the weather, moved sluggish, kept turning off his Sharingan, didnt use half ther abilities he has been shown. And you stll want to say that sasuke wasnt bothered by his wounds.
4. No shinobi would take his eyes off the opponent. It obvious sasuke took a breather cuz he wasnt 100%. Another sign of careless thinking genjutsu would work. Instead of being sure and prepared. Something sasuke didnt do in the fight against Itachi were he is shown at his highest.
5. You sure about that. If sasuke was at 100% things most likely would have went differently. Sasuke showed the ability to avoid Kbee moves but couldn't do it consectuively cuz of his injuries. Ansd letting his guard down.
6. Stupid careless that was show in this fight was obviously plot no jutsu to hype the hachibi up.Sasuke hasnt shown to be like this throughout the whole manga and all of the sudden he is a retard in battle. Get serious. At the end of the day Hachibi got done in by a weakened 16 year old and his x-box live buddies who only healed him. Sasuke had to be hurt to make this fight interesting which is quite sad.

[Shaunlim]

1. Kbee was hurt. The attack and shock brought him to his knees and made him yell out in pain.
2. It was careless of him to go into a battle while he wasnt 100%.
3. Look at all the past Sasuke fights. You would think he could dodge an attack. He had ample enough time. He sat their and stared at Hachibi and even let him say sentence befor he got struck. Obviously because his body was sitll injured cuz and wasnt able to move as smoothly. Sasuke walked into the battle looking under the weather, moved sluggish, kept turning off his Sharingan, didnt use half ther abilities he has been shown. And you stll want to say that sasuke wasnt bothered by his wounds.
4. No shinobi would take his eyes off the opponent. It obvious sasuke took a breather cuz he wasnt 100%. Another sign of careless thinking genjutsu would work. Instead of being sure and prepared. Something sasuke didnt do in the fight against Itachi were he is shown at his highest.
5. You sure about that. If sasuke was at 100% things most likely would have went differently. Sasuke showed the ability to avoid Kbee moves but couldn't do it consectuively cuz of his injuries. Ansd letting his guard down.
6. Stupid careless that was show in this fight was obviously plot no jutsu to hype the hachibi up.Sasuke hasnt shown to be like this throughout the whole manga and all of the sudden he is a retard in battle. Get serious. At the end of the day Hachibi got done in by a weakened 16 year old and his x-box live buddies who only healed him. Sasuke had to be hurt to make this fight interesting which is quite sad.
1.Yet he manage to dodge Juugo's Cs2 attack and flying to the other side of the mountain.
2.And it's everyone's fault because Sasuke couldn't get some rest first...and he was known to be a genius..
3.He could have crawl/walk away from there if he wanted. He was strong enough to throw a sword that Suigetsu said was heavy. I'm pretty sure he could have jump back if he wanted to.
4.Even Itachi got tired after using Tsukiyomi. He should have not been so overconfidence and overlook hachibi that's all. Sasuke had time to prepare those items he used against Itachi and he didn't period. He was just cocky at that time. Even he said so himself. Besides that, 8th is shown to be some sort of weapon master. I'm pretty sure he could have handled some shurikens.
5. Once. Only once has Sasuke avoided the 8th's attack and hachibi was moving at a straight line at that time. If Sasuke let's down his guard, it is his mistake, his weakness.
6.Plot no Jutsu is like how Sasuke survive against deidara. Get serious, Sasuke was shown to be underestimating all of his opponent in the whole series. At the end of the day, Sasuke could have died 3 times with 3 different ways. Sasuke was actually saved by them too. Sasuke had to be injured, so that the fans won't feel how come Sasuke is so downgraded suddenly.
7. Sasuke just got burned in the Itachi fight, nothing all of that serious except maybe chakra over usage.
8. For your statement earlier about Hachibi being serious. He wasn't....could have killed Juugo and Suigetsu. Could have attack Sasuke after his kick but he didn't........

[Baron Hugenstein]

As simple as why Sakura's strength is lower than Naruto and Sasuke or why Naruto's stat expect stamina is not affected by the kyuubi. Those are enchants from kyuubi or chakra control or jutsu. Seeing that Hermit-mode is a type of jutsu.....it's like saying that Gai and Lee's stat is based on opening of the gate...

Not really, part of Naruto's huge stamina is the fact that the Kyuubi chakra heals him in small amounts. What is the point of stats if they don't consider the jutsus that come with a character, that's their main purpose. Part of the stats is based on these Jutsus. hence the many pages per character.


1. you need to reread what suigetsu said about being serious and fighting to kill and yet killerbee was unharmed except shocked a bit...
2.If Sasuke is careless and not careful that means his limit is just at that level. Are you going to say that every victory won due to the opponent is not counted ???
3.Since when was it said that Sasuke was hurt so bad that he couldn't even run away from an attack. He jumped in attacked just fine with some acrobatic move. Seriously, the only wound receive by Sasuke during the Itachi fight was a Katon burn from a C class jutsu.
4. Sasuke got weak by using MS and got stabbed before. And the whole turning back was probably in a second or two so there was nothing for Sasuke to do at that point. Just because he got careless doesn't mean that killerbee's victory is rubbish.
5. If they were both at 100%, Sasuke would have still died from either the stabbing, jin super clothes line or the super bijuu blast......
6. If a ninja is careless then obviously it is his own flaws. Meaning his weakness.....seriously even konohamaru could kill a careless hokage...all he has to do is slit the hokages throat.

A retreat done in a battle like that means instant death, Sasuke can't just run even if he saw that 8 tails was strong. That was a life or death battle between taka and killer.
Sasuke practically fainted at the end of the Uchiha battle, you forgot the lovely 8 headed hydra snake that came out of him? or how many times he tried to use chakra when he didn't have any? or the beautiful CS mode that was abused by Sasuke (true he mastered it, but still it does damage as well) These things damage the body a whole lot
.
Sasuke fights with his own body and doesn't care about the consequences, look what happened in Deidara's fight. After every Sasuke battle, he is always either bedridden or barely walking.
The Uchiha batte was Sasuke's goal for the past three or more years, he was going all-out in it, and i don't he cared if he lived afterward, what mattered then was to kill Itachi. Itachi wanted to rid Sasuke of the CS and Oro., and the only way to do that was to push Sasuke into a corner by beating him and forcing to use every trick he learned.

[Shaunlim]

Not really, part of Naruto's huge stamina is the fact that the Kyuubi chakra heals him in small amounts. What is the point of stats if they don't consider the jutsus that come with a character, that's their main purpose. Part of the stats is based on these Jutsus. hence the many pages per character.
By stats I mean the physical side of it. As in their speed and strength which obviously is not affected by jutsu usage. Maybe it does in some cases such as Orochimaru's modification but not jutsus that needs to be activated by the user such as hermit, gate and kyuubi etc....


A retreat done in a battle like that means instant death, Sasuke can't just run even if he saw that 8 tails was strong. That was a life or death battle between taka and killer.
Sasuke practically fainted at the end of the Uchiha battle, you forgot the lovely 8 headed hydra snake that came out of him? or how many times he tried to use chakra when he didn't have any? or the beautiful CS mode that was abused by Sasuke (true he mastered it, but still it does damage as well) These things damage the body a whole lot
.
Sasuke fights with his own body and doesn't care about the consequences, look what happened in Deidara's fight. After every Sasuke battle, he is always either bedridden or barely walking.
The Uchiha batte was Sasuke's goal for the past three or more years, he was going all-out in it, and i don't he cared if he lived afterward, what mattered then was to kill Itachi. Itachi wanted to rid Sasuke of the CS and Oro., and the only way to do that was to push Sasuke into a corner by beating him and forcing to use every trick he learned.
I didn't meant retreat by what I said. What I meant was jumping back to team taka and analysing the opponent or to avoid attacks. Afterall Csdabest said that Sasuke was so weak that he could even avoid an attack properly.
Physical wounds is not the same as body strain. Afterall Juugo said wounds not weaker body condition or so on and so forth.

[Baron Hugenstein]

By stats I mean the physical side of it. As in their speed and strength which obviously is not affected by jutsu usage. Maybe it does in some cases such as Orochimaru's modification but not jutsus that needs to be activated by the user such as hermit, gate and kyuubi etc....

about Jiraiya's stats, you are wrong.
The senju mode improves the physical stats tenfolds, we have seen a senju Jiraiya much faster and powerful than the normal Jiraiya. He kicked a huge bull or buffalo while in that mode. Jiraiya's stats include the senju mode.
I know the senju mode has to be activated, but unlike other jutsus, it can be maintained for long periods of time, due to the fact that mode attracts natural chakra, it doesn't consume the user's chakra.


I didn't meant retreat by what I said. What I meant was jumping back to team taka and analysing the opponent or to avoid attacks. Afterall Csdabest said that Sasuke was so weak that he could even avoid an attack properly.
Physical wounds is not the same as body strain. Afterall Juugo said wounds not weaker body condition or so on and so forth.

I meant retreat as both. Say Sasuke did a tactical retreat to taka to analyze the situation. This is quite bad for Sasuke, two reasons why:
1) Killer will be on the offensive, meaning he will the advantage of choosing the battlefield or tactics for the battle.
By far the only Ninja to be on the defensive for most fights is Itachi. None else.

2) Sasuke is the type to push his enemies into using Jutsus. If Sasuke stands back to think, that means he is giving time to the enemy to also think and process which Jutsus are to be used. While if Sasuke rushes the enemy, that enemy will have to counter quickly, meaning that he won't have time to think about the overall situation.

When facing a ninja with unknown abilities, the opposing mustn't wait for the other to attack.

A body strain is almost similar to a wound in effect. A strained ninja cannot move as quickly he would have if he was in good shape. A wounded is a weaker body, as they slow the body down and create weak areas to be attacked further.

[Akabeth]

As hard as this was to decide, I think at:
1) 100% mental/physical health
2) Armed with their most updated arsenal
*i.e. No CS for Sasuke, but rather MS w/ his own Amaterasu and Amaterasu extinguisher
3) No rules/time limit battle

Itachi and Sasuke will beat Minato.

With 3 shinobis at this level fighting all-out mercilessly, the one(s) that go down will be the first one(s) to be caught off-guard. These 3 are extremely talented! All it takes is one wrong move and that person is finished.

The only constant I can think of is if Minato ever makes eye contact with either one (esp. Itachi) he's finished; Tsukiyomi, x genjutsu, etc. I mean... I can seriously go on to type paragraphs upon paragraphs of possible scenarios. Also you know what the Fourth emphasized on, "Teamwork" :)

I might expand on this later on, depending on flow of discussion.

[Csdabest]

Also look at what happen to Sasuke. He had something ripped from his body that has been there for 3+ years. Having white snake abilities ripped from his body. This obviously caused heavy body mishaps. That would decline his body functions for time frame until his body readjusts

[Shaunlim]

Don't mean to be rude, but about Jiraiya's stats, you are wrong.
The senju mode improves the physical stats tenfolds, we have seen a senju Jiraiya much faster and powerful than the normal Jiraiya. He kicked a huge bull or buffalo while in that mode. Jiraiya's stats include the senju mode.
I know the senju mode has to be activated, but unlike other jutsus, it can be maintained for long periods of time, due to the fact that mode attracts natural chakra, it doesn't consume the user's chakra.
Who's to say that at normal mode Jiraiya's strength speed and etc is not as high as shown in the DB. On the other hand, it is logical to deduce that it is not since Sakura, Lee, Gai, Naruto and Sasuke's stats doesn't show that it is affected by jutsu, gate, chakra and etc....



I meant retreat as both. Say Sasuke did a tactical retreat to taka to analyze the situation. This is quite bad for Sasuke, two reasons why:
1) Killer will be on the offensive, meaning he will the advantage of choosing the battlefield or tactics for the battle.
By far the only Ninja to be on the defensive for most fights is Itachi. None else.

2) Sasuke is the type to push his enemies into using Jutsus. If Sasuke stands back to think, that means he is giving time to the enemy to also think and process which Jutsus are to be used. While if Sasuke rushes the enemy, that enemy will have to counter quickly, meaning that he won't have time to think about the overall situation.

When facing a ninja with unknown abilities, the opposing mustn't wait for the other to attack.
Actually that is what I have been saying to CSdabest. He said that Sasuke was not being himself and wasn't acting the way he should such as running away and etc.....


A body strain is almost similar to a wound in effect. A strained ninja cannot move as quickly he would have if he was in good shape. A wounded is a weaker body, as they slow the body down and create weak areas to be attacked further.
That's true but body strain heals much faster than a normal wound not to mentioned Juugo said wounds not strain.



Also look at what happen to Sasuke. He had something ripped from his body that has been there for 3+ years. Having white snake abilities ripped from his body. This obviously caused heavy body mishaps. That would decline his body functions for time frame until his body readjusts
Actually it was more like something burst out than ripped out. Whether it was 3 years or not it doesn't matter. If anything all he have to do is change his fighting style. If he didn't, that means it is his fault not anyone else. He was shown to be able to move just fine and was able to throw a heavy sword with his own sword, so I'm pretty sure that his body function is just fine.
[hr]

As hard as this was to decide, I think at:
1) 100% mental/physical health
2) Armed with their most updated arsenal
*i.e. No CS for Sasuke, but rather MS w/ his own Amaterasu and Amaterasu extinguisher
3) No rules/time limit battle

Itachi and Sasuke will beat Minato.

With 3 shinobis at this level fighting all-out mercilessly, the one(s) that go down will be the first one(s) to be caught off-guard. These 3 are extremely talented! All it takes is one wrong move and that person is finished.

The only constant I can think of is if Minato ever makes eye contact with either one (esp. Itachi) he's finished; Tsukiyomi, x genjutsu, etc. I mean... I can seriously go on to type paragraphs upon paragraphs of possible scenarios. Also you know what the Fourth emphasized on, "Teamwork" :)

I might expand on this later on, depending on flow of discussion.
Sasuke can't have MS with Itachi being alive unless you want to handicap the fight. I agree that one wrong move and it's over. Genjutsu is not auto-cast. Even if they make eye-contact, if Itachi didn't realise it or was not fast enough to cast the genjutsu, then it's useless.

[Csdabest]

Shaulim ur last point. About Sasuke cant have MS if itachi alive. IS BS. this fight cant happen since Minato is dead.

[Baron Hugenstein]

Who's to say that at normal mode Jiraiya's strength speed and etc is not as high as shown in the DB. On the other hand, it is logical to deduce that it is not since Sakura, Lee, Gai, Naruto and Sasuke's stats doesn't show that it is affected by jutsu, gate, chakra and etc....



Actually that is what I have been saying to CSdabest. He said that Sasuke was not being himself and wasn't acting the way he should such as running away and etc.....


That's true but body strain heals much faster than a normal wound not to mentioned Juugo said wounds not strain.



Actually it was more like something burst out than ripped out. Whether it was 3 years or not it doesn't matter. If anything all he have to do is change his fighting style. If he didn't, that means it is his fault not anyone else. He was shown to be able to move just fine and was able to throw a heavy sword with his own sword, so I'm pretty sure that his body function is just fine.
<hr noshade size="1">

Sasuke can't have MS with Itachi being alive unless you want to handicap the fight. I agree that one wrong move and it's over. Genjutsu is not auto-cast. Even if they make eye-contact, if Itachi didn't realise it or was not fast enough to cast the genjutsu, then it's useless.

Sasuke must have MS, because as Csdabest pointed out, Minato is sleeping in the ground.

Trust, it doesn't a full second for Itachi to cast his genjutsu, one small look from Minato and it is all over for him.

[nat]

Just a random comment
"The Mangekyou Sharingan is feared as the strongest doujutsu, but only some of its possessors can reach this further godlike state." from the Data books refering to Susanoo...

[Raizen]

For a sharingan genjutsu to work, the posssesor must know when the opponent has made eye contact. The sharingan does nto cast gen automatically. In a high speed battle like this one and where minato knows the abilities of the sharingan eye contact is not even a factor.

Also people are arguing that The bros can just block the kunais, suure they could but it wouldn't matter. The kunais are nothing but distractions. Lets say minato throws 15 kunais and somehow itachi and sasuke manages to evade them all. Good for them but minato can instantly teleport to anyone of those kunais and attack if it fails he can teleport to another one and another in split of a second. DO you really think that the bros can counter continuous attacks like that w/o knowing where they are coming from and it all happening in a split of a second? No. They be lucky to be able to counter just the first attack.

In a battle like this where the opponent can be anywhere and attack in any direction means total OWNAGE. Here is another example. Minato teleports to a kunai throws another kunai at itachi and attacks. Itachi dodges the kunai and goes to counter the 4th's attack but the 4th dissapear, right as itachi attacks,to the kunai that he just threw allowing him to attack an itachi who is focusing in the front instead of the back where the kunai was thrown. What does this mean? Itachi is dead. And all this can happen in a second meaning no help from sasuke or vice versa.

Really all u guys have said is that "the sharingan is so uber that winning is so impossible". That is BS and we all know it. But I don't have time to argue much. There is a reason why the 4th's stats are still unknown, b/c he is so uber and powerful. Yeah so suck it. Lets just wait a few more chpaters and I am sure more stories of Minato's strength will surface during naruto's training

[kkck]

^ If you set a situation like that obviously the one you chose wins lol. Hell, anyone could come up with a situation that would give the advantage to itachi and sasuke so that they can pawn minato or the other way around.
Even if minato can throw a bunch of kunais at the same time, the uchiha bros are fighting as a team so they could cover each others back.
using amaterasu to double team on minato would be quite usefull too. Worst case scenario for itachi and sasuke if they do this is that they die and minato dies also because he is trapped in a sea of black fire.
We dont know to what extent minato used toads when fighting but using bunta would be an horrible mistake seeing how he would be the biggest bulleye since hachibi lol.
Itachi also has his explosive shadow clones which he could use to take minato by surprise.
Overall I dont think sasuke would do much on his own, but he is very stong so if he works with his brother he would be a valuable ally. He could suport itachi with his long-mid range ninjutsu or in the worst case scenario be used as bait for itachi to strike.
All you got on minato is those kunais with tags plus being the biggest sasuke hater around, you would probably give itachi better odds of winning if he was fighting alone lol.

[Raizen]

^ If you set a situation like that obviously the one you chose wins lol. Hell, anyone could come up with a situation that would give the advantage to itachi and sasuke so that they can pawn minato or the other way around.
Even if minato can throw a bunch of kunais at the same time, the uchiha bros are fighting as a team so they could cover each others back.
using amaterasu to double team on minato would be quite usefull too. Worst case scenario for itachi and sasuke if they do this is that they die and minato dies also because he is trapped in a sea of black fire.
We dont know to what extent minato used toads when fighting but using bunta would be an horrible mistake seeing how he would be the biggest bulleye since hachibi lol.
Itachi also has his explosive shadow clones which he could use to take minato by surprise.
Overall I dont think sasuke would do much on his own, but he is very stong so if he works with his brother he would be a valuable ally. He could suport itachi with his long-mid range ninjutsu or in the worst case scenario be used as bait for itachi to strike.
All you got on minato is those kunais with tags plus being the biggest sasuke hater around, you would probably give itachi better odds of winning if he was fighting alone lol.
That is such a lame answer. B/c u can't find a way around it u said I am making a situation that gives advantage to minato. In this battle against 2ninjas that is exactly what minato would do. OK how about u think of a situation then to make it fair. The thing is there is no situation that Minato cannot get out of due to his skills and jutsus. Amaretsu from all sides Teleport close to the uchihas and lets see if they are willing to burn each others alive. Amaretsu forms out of thin air giving Minato time to throw kunais aroung the battle field close to the bros giving him accesss when needed.

And of course I am going to talk about hiraishin b/c that is what we know about him. One uber jutsu that is enough to take down 2 ninjas w/ dozens of attack. It only adds to minato that he could take them out w/ one jutsu. U are calling me a hater b/c u can't come back w/ a good argument. Other than calling me names think of an educated response and then reply. :notrust.

ps. And yes I hate sasuke b/c he gets out of ridiculous situations w/ the biggest BS. No other characters have done that. I actually liked him in part 1, but now HELL NO!!

[kkck]

You are still ignoring all the obvious flaws hirashin has.
Sasuke and itachi dont nesesarily have to block or dodge the kunais with tags. They could do this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/06-07/
this way kunais dont get over 4 or 5 feet away from minato, which means hirashin overall would not work, unless minato finds some use in teleporting in such a small area.
This would also counter hirashin:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/10/
Minato could use a rain of kunai with tags, but a single katon well placed katon would get rid of tags. Even if minato throws then in diferent directions, there are 2 brothers, meaning they could fire at many diferent angles to.
Then there are the predictability problems hirashin would have againts those overpowered doojutsu and their prediction ability. Even if minato gets behind either brother, they would cover each others back or sasuke could protect himself with chidori nagashi or itachi could trick minato into gtting close to an explosive shadow clone.
And even if minato survives everything, he would still need to deal with all the MS ninjutsu.
If minato barely taps amaterasu he is screwed.
Tsukioyomi is strong, and we have no way of knowing if minato could get out of it. Of course he would have to get hit first, but if he gets hit he is dead.
And then we have susanoo. As far as we know minato has no way of defeating it. ALl he could do it try to avoid it because if he gets touched by the sword, he is dead.
Then we have the posibility of sasuke using his tsukioyomi and susanoo (still dont know if sasuke has all of itachi's techniques) plus his own MS ninjutsu( if he has any)
Minato could also try to pull a sarutobi, but for that he would need shadow clones (which we dont know if he has) and manage to get a hold of itachi and sasuke. Even if he does get that close, he gets himself in a position where he could be hit with amaterasu, tsukioyomi or susanoo by either brother and sasuke could also counter with chidori nagashi (specialy since he is grabed bythe clone).
Even if minato is constantly called the greatest hokage, the first and the third have also been called the greatest at some point by diferent ninjas.
Based on what we know I think minato would not win, although I might change my mind once more fatcs are presented (not just ambigous comments).

[The Flash]

You are still ignoring all the obvious flaws hirashin has.
Sasuke and itachi dont nesesarily have to block or dodge the kunais with tags. They could do this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/06-07/
this way kunais dont get over 4 or 5 feet away from minato, which means hirashin overall would not work, unless minato finds some use in teleporting in such a small area.
This would also counter hirashin:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/10/
Minato could use a rain of kunai with tags, but a single katon well placed katon would get rid of tags. Even if minato throws then in diferent directions, there are 2 brothers, meaning they could fire at many diferent angles to.
Then there are the predictability problems hirashin would have againts those overpowered doojutsu and their prediction ability. Even if minato gets behind either brother, they would cover each others back or sasuke could protect himself with chidori nagashi or itachi could trick minato into gtting close to an explosive shadow clone.
And even if minato survives everything, he would still need to deal with all the MS ninjutsu.
If minato barely taps amaterasu he is screwed.
Tsukioyomi is strong, and we have no way of knowing if minato could get out of it. Of course he would have to get hit first, but if he gets hit he is dead.
And then we have susanoo. As far as we know minato has no way of defeating it. ALl he could do it try to avoid it because if he gets touched by the sword, he is dead.
Then we have the posibility of sasuke using his tsukioyomi and susanoo (still dont know if sasuke has all of itachi's techniques) plus his own MS ninjutsu( if he has any)
Minato could also try to pull a sarutobi, but for that he would need shadow clones (which we dont know if he has) and manage to get a hold of itachi and sasuke. Even if he does get that close, he gets himself in a position where he could be hit with amaterasu, tsukioyomi or susanoo by either brother and sasuke could also counter with chidori nagashi (specialy since he is grabed bythe clone).
Even if minato is constantly called the greatest hokage, the first and the third have also been called the greatest at some point by diferent ninjas.
Based on what we know I think minato would not win, although I might change my mind once more fatcs are presented (not just ambigous comments).

Yeah because Minato wants to throws the Kunai's directly to hit him right? All Minato needs to do is throw his kunai's at 4 remote points. Then switch between them like a blink of an eye. I.E - like the Haku shield attack. Once naruto has those four or more point located. Itachi is boxed in. Minato now only needs to switch back and forth(which only takes a blink of an eye to do) - which is too fast for the Sharingan see. Once itachi is caught off guard... minato will strike

[Baron Hugenstein]

Yeah because Minato wants to throws the Kunai's directly to hit him right? All Minato needs to do is throw his kunai's at 4 remote points. Then switch between them like a blink of an eye. I.E - like the Haku shield attack. Once naruto has those four or more point located. Itachi is boxed in. Minato now only needs to switch back and forth(which only takes a blink of an eye to do) - which is too fast for the Sharingan see. Once itachi is caught off guard... minato will strike

You mean Minato, not Naruto!

A grand fire ball(forgot the name) Katon can change the landscape a bit, meaning removing any objects that are thrown in the ground.
Plus, the sharingan will see where the Kunai are.
Minato can't kill while moving, he must stop and kill, Hirashin is only a transport jutsu. If he gets near Sasuke, Chidori Nagashi will force Minato to leave him, If minato gets near Itachi, then either that Itachi is a clone and will explode or Itachi will get Minato into a Genjutsu, either from his finger or eyes.

unless there is a book or gaiden(other than Kakashi's gaiden) for Minato further explaining his powers, then pretty much that's all we know about him and he will lose at the hands of the brothers.

[kkck]

Yeah because Minato wants to throws the Kunai's directly to hit him right? All Minato needs to do is throw his kunai's at 4 remote points. Then switch between them like a blink of an eye. I.E - like the Haku shield attack. Once naruto has those four or more point located. Itachi is boxed in. Minato now only needs to switch back and forth(which only takes a blink of an eye to do) - which is too fast for the Sharingan see. Once itachi is caught off guard... minato will strike

I didnt just mean that minato would throw his kunais directly at either brother. DOnt you think that if sasuke and itachi can cancel the kunais they throw at each other by throwing kunai and shuriken, they could intercept kunais minato is throwing elsewhere.

Another intersting thing itachi and sasuke could to to win is: Itachi uses susasoo to distract minato while sasuke uses katon and amaterasu to make a kirin. That would be pretty hard to dodge even for minato.
To be honest I would like minato to win, but I dont see him winning with only hirashin and rasengan.

[Raizen]

You mean Minato, not Naruto!

A grand fire ball(forgot the name) Katon can change the landscape a bit, meaning removing any objects that are thrown in the ground.
Plus, the sharingan will see where the Kunai are.
Minato can't kill while moving, he must stop and kill, Hirashin is only a transport jutsu. If he gets near Sasuke, Chidori Nagashi will force Minato to leave him, If minato gets near Itachi, then either that Itachi is a clone and will explode or Itachi will get Minato into a Genjutsu, either from his finger or eyes.

unless there is a book or gaiden(other than Kakashi's gaiden) for Minato further explaining his powers, then pretty much that's all we know about him and he will lose at the hands of the brothers.
Oh yes, the sharingan is so amazing that it can see a split second attack and give the uchiha a chance to counter also. :notrust

The only way itachi or sasuke would be able to counter hiraishin is if sasuke keeps using chidori nagashi and itachi knows minato is going to attack and then use a clone.Problem: Sasuke can't keep CN up that long due to chakra drainage and it takes time to set it up. As for itachi, this is a 2 vs 1 fight so I don't see him using KB like he did against konohas jonins. Even if he did, Minato will realize it (he is a genius), even kakashi realized it was a KB.

ALso, u seem to the bros knows about hiraishin's abilities. They don't. Not only that sharigan sees chakra and the kunais don't have chakra itself, it is minato who is exerting the chakra. But since he is teleporting to another plane, the sharingan can't detect it. So that mean no reading his movements and no countering which means death. And fire ball jutsu, it can create a crater at most, even if SOME of the tags are removed, minato can easily place more at carefully planned out locations. U see unlike the uchihas repeated attacks that waste tons of chakra, placing the tags don't waste anything and the 4th has been shown to use hiraishin dozens of times. Pretty soon the bros will be trapped and minato will teleport attack them back and forth just like DEADPOOL and kill them. Even if the other one realizes what is happening, he can't help b/c the attacks happen in an instant

[kkck]

Oh yes, the sharingan is so amazing that it can see a split second attack and give the uchiha a chance to counter also. :notrust


Whether you like it or not, that is one of the sharingans main points.

[The Flash]

You mean Minato, not Naruto!

A grand fire ball(forgot the name) Katon can change the landscape a bit, meaning removing any objects that are thrown in the ground.
Plus, the sharingan will see where the Kunai are.
Minato can't kill while moving, he must stop and kill, Hirashin is only a transport jutsu. If he gets near Sasuke, Chidori Nagashi will force Minato to leave him, If minato gets near Itachi, then either that Itachi is a clone and will explode or Itachi will get Minato into a Genjutsu, either from his finger or eyes.

unless there is a book or gaiden(other than Kakashi's gaiden) for Minato further explaining his powers, then pretty much that's all we know about him and he will lose at the hands of the brothers.

i believe minato is of the wind affinity. Like father.. like son. Wind > chidori nagashi

[Baron Hugenstein]

i believe minato is of the wind affinity. Like father.. like son. Wind > chidori nagashi

According to Tsuande, Naruto takes after his mother in ninjutsu and fighting style, not his father. So i doubt Minato has Wind

[The Flash]

Whether you like it or not, that is one of the sharingans main points.

true, but raizen was being sarcastic. Sharingan cant see the split second to be exact. Even though they can see it. Their reaction time is slow.

I,e- sasuke's shunshin no jutsu. (in the cave with itachi) Itachi clone got caught off guard with the speed. Shunshin is a physical movement.

Hiraishin is a teleportation technique that uses space and time. There is absoulutely no way sharingan can see that. Since the user is in a different dimension.

and oh about the "the big fire gookayou", The fire goes in one direction. in one angle. Having minato's Kunai's thrown at those four points, Minato can easily teleport instantly. Plus the big fire ball doesnt hit you right away, it is easily be dodged. I.e Kakashi use earth technique and hide on the ground.

anyways once those points are thrown in a box like structure. Minato all he needs to do is throw another 4 or more kunai's boxing them in closer. Once he's close enough, he will strike with his other techniques up his sleeves.

first attack : box in by 4 - 4 m
second attack once he teleports between those locations...
he throws another kunais - 2 - 2 m

slowly he boxes them in with attacks. And remember it only takes a split second to do. And the best part. this technique isnt shunshin(physical movement) its a teleportation technque from another dimension - whch cannot by seen by the naked eye or sharingan.

If you like it to think this way: he throws 10 kunais surrounding uchiha bros. the probability of sasuke and itachi seeing minato is 1/5 - those are small chances. if it was just sasuke (by himself) or itachi. it would 1/10

Minato all he needs to do is either pop in from each of the 10 kunai's/rite locations(which takes less then a second a to do) I'm guessing he can appear at those 10 locations simultaneously in like one second. That is icredibly fast... but hey dont be suprise since this technique is a space-time jutsu.

Once minato appears simultaneously in those 10 remote locations, he will throw explosive tagged kunai's directly at them. As sasgay and itachi are blocking all these attacks. (remember he's appearing in those 10 locations in ONE SECOND) Minato will throw more rite kunais at the remote location. boxing them in even closer. He repeats this process- until he can get closer to him. Once Minato has obtained close-targer range. He has over more than 10 locations he can attack from.

Just say in total of this boxing-attack style - he throws 40 kunai's. Minato has 40 remote locations to attack. the probability for itachi and sasuke(together) to see where minato will pop up next is 1/20. Which is extremely slim.

Remember minato if he wants can be at 40 locations and attack by using long range - will only take him a few seconds(probably like 5 seconds).

Itachi wont be able to have time to use goukayou fire technique - since he is blocking all these kunai's being throwned at him. At the sametime minato's Kunai-rite kunai's will be thrown to box them even closer.

Now like i said.. once minato has obtained that closed range. Minato can appear from Distance B(really far away) to Distance A(close-combat range. Now Minato can get their guard down by switching attacks from distance B and Distance A. Switching from long distance range - to close range will cause itachi/sasuke to lose their guard.

Once that happens. Minato will strike - as in - he uses taijutsu with tags/rite on his hand - ready to tag itachi and sasuke without them knowing. Its game over.

The result of Itachi/and sasuke is what happened to the rock guy who got assasinated.

[Baron Hugenstein]

Oh yes, the sharingan is so amazing that it can see a split second attack and give the uchiha a chance to counter also. :notrust

The only way itachi or sasuke would be able to counter hiraishin is if sasuke keeps using chidori nagashi and itachi knows minato is going to attack and then use a clone.Problem: Sasuke can't keep CN up that long due to chakra drainage and it takes time to set it up. As for itachi, this is a 2 vs 1 fight so I don't see him using KB like he did against konohas jonins. Even if he did, Minato will realize it (he is a genius), even kakashi realized it was a KB.

ALso, u seem to the bros knows about hiraishin's abilities. They don't. Not only that sharigan sees chakra and the kunais don't have chakra itself, it is minato who is exerting the chakra. But since he is teleporting to another plane, the sharingan can't detect it. So that mean no reading his movements and no countering which means death. And fire ball jutsu, it can create a crater at most, even if SOME of the tags are removed, minato can easily place more at carefully planned out locations. U see unlike the uchihas repeated attacks that waste tons of chakra, placing the tags don't waste anything and the 4th has been shown to use hiraishin dozens of times. Pretty soon the bros will be trapped and minato will teleport attack them back and forth just like DEADPOOL and kill them. Even if the other one realizes what is happening, he can't help b/c the attacks happen in an instant

So if there isn't any chakra in the Kunai, then how does the tag work, solar energy or perhaps they are smart Kunai, with guiding chips in the center:notrust
Hmm, if that's so, then how do Deidara's bombs work, i mean both are used away from the user??
Doesn't make any sense.:notrust

Reread the Kakashi Gaiden, Minato can't kill while he is using Hirashin, he has to move there behind the enemy, then kill....so there is a second or so for him to kill, that's more than enough for Sasuke alone.

Also, these three are among the geniuses of the Naruto world, if Minato fails to hit with any jutsu, the Uchihas will learn how to counter. As well, if the bros miss to hit, Minato will learn how to counter. Kakashi realized it because two Itachis were standing there, Itachi will hide while the KB will stay out there.

[The Flash]

^^ typed that whole thing like in 3 minutes lol. MY PREVIOUS POST BY THIS IS JUST DETAIL-DETAIL OF MY SCENARIO - THIS POST EXPLAINS THE SCENARIO MORE THOROOUGHLY
But if you dont get my point. Hiraishin is space-time jutsu - (space time becomes irrelevant) once he performs hiraishin. Being at 10 locations simultaneously will take only a second or two for minato to do.

But my whole scenario (quite imaginative if you ask me) is minato attacking using explosive kunai's and boxing them in at the same process. This style of attack can only take him a few seconds to do (and by few i mean like 5 seconds). Once he obtains that close range or "point-blank" range. He switches from close range to long range attack, causing Itachi/sasuke to lose their guard. (this will confuse them, since he is attacking in different patterns)

And remember once a tag is on you, your dead. Sure you can use Nagashi, But i dont think anyone will miracously know when minato's next attack will be. (That's why I introduced the probablity of where minato can appear and attack) With more than 40 rite kunai's location in his hands. He can attack and appear in different angles/location is less than a second. And when he knows your not expecting it. BAM he appears behind your back with a kunai striking at your throat will be the end of it. So in this case Chidori nagashi is kind of useless. and Oh trust me Minato will be able to cut your throat before your able to chidori nagashi, only if he has the tag on you

Plus thats what i'd like to see happen to Sasuke. Having him killed will be a beautiful view in ym eyes. He's a slow learner, stubborn, completely in denial, and a bitch (this is updated definition version of sasuke after the 316 spoilers)

remember this whole process is when Minato is attacking simultaneously as well.

Now this is what i call a "BOXING in and Attacking and appearing simultaneously" combat style

Like some people here have said already. If this fight ever happened. It will be fast and quick.

I'm thinking this fight will be over in 1 minute. Thats really fast. heh - i bet it takes you more than a minute to solve high level calculus problem. In itachi/sasuke's case they will be shocked - i mean c'mon.. knowing minato appearing simultaneously from one location to another and attacking simultaneously is scary.

And plus I dont think Minato will ever sacrifice his life. Itachi/sasuke won't kill him, minato will just retreat(retreat as in - have a rite/tag in his home in Konoha) - He will just be like "heh - I made you tired and goes home) lol - On the other side, itachi/sasuke does not have the ability to escape instantly like minato can. (which is a form of defeat in Minato's part)
----------------
But once sasuke or Itachi are cheering up a victory, minato can appear back again and attack.. HAHA - that'd be funny to see happen <------ this small paragraph is just for jokes

______________
Anyways that it for my "BOX-IN until you get point blank range, simultaneously attack and appear during the process, Once point-blank is complete, tag them without them knowing, then attacking with using a different pattern, and when their not expecting, appear at point-blank range and cut their throat" Scenario.

Minato has the element of surprise

[Baron Hugenstein]

^^ typed that whole thing like in 3 minutes lol.
But if you dont get my point. Hiraishin is space-time jutsu - (space time becomes irrelevant) once he performs hiraishin. Being at 10 locations simultaneously will take only a second or two for minato to do.

But my whole scenario (quite imaginative if you ask me) is minato attacking using explosive kunai's and boxing them in at the same process. This style of attack can only take him a few seconds to do (and by few i mean like 5 seconds). Once he obtains that close range or "point-blank" range. He switches from close range to long range attack, causing Itachi/sasuke to lose their guard.

And remember once a tag is on you, your dead. Sure you can use Nagashi, But i dont think anyone will miracously know when minato's next attack will be. With more than 40 rite kunai's location in his hands. He can attack and appear in different angles/location is less than a second. And when he knows your not expecting it. BAM a kunai striking at your throat will be the end of it

remember this whole process is when Minato is attacking simultaneously as well.

Now this is what i call a "BOXING in and Attacking and appearing simultaneously" combat style

Like some people here have said already. If this fight ever happened. It will be fast and quick.

Unless they both use KB, which is chakra cheap and easily done.
Btw, you do know that the three-tomoe Sharingan can copy any Jutsus when they are seen??
Even Taijutsu, provided by Sasuke's lion barrage, which was copied from lee in half a day or so, and that was a 2 tomoe Sharingan.

[The Flash]

Unless they both use KB, which is chakra cheap and easily done.
Btw, you do know that the three-tomoe Sharingan can copy any Jutsus when they are seen??
Even Taijutsu, provided by Sasuke's lion barrage, which was copied from lee in half a day or so, and that was a 2 tomoe Sharingan.

it cannot copy hiraishin. a kuchiyose(reversed technique) - To support this they were uchiha's still living during the ninja wars. at this time Minato already had his fame of his "yellow flash" title. IF Uchiha's can copy it, then We would have a uchiha clan also nicknamed "THE FLASHES!". Correct me if i'm wrong, but space-time jutsu(kucyhiyose cant be copied) -> blood contract, Hiraishin is derived by kuchiyose. Similiar to the reversed-kubhyose technique.. the one that the frog used on naruto to get the myubou mountain
[hr]
and the way KB works, the orginal chakra is split among those bunshins. Example: make one extra bunshin - That bunshin will have half of the original user's chakra.Thats why kage bunshin stated many times throughout the manga can drain you easily. Though Bunshin is jounin technique. Only those with high chakra can make it effective. The only one that can use it at its best is naruto. Kyuubi chakra is infinite.

according to databook(written by kishimoto) itachi has 2.5, and sasuke not much higher. 3.5 i believe. correct me if i'm wrong

[Baron Hugenstein]

it cannot copy hiraishin.

Why not?
Hirashin doesn't need any KG, or any affinity combination.
Hirashin is a time/space Jutsu, there is a possibility of it being copied.

True, but generally, an Uchiha have a bigger Chakra pool than the average Ninja

[The Flash]

Why not?
Hirashin doesn't need any KG, or any affinity combination.
Hirashin is a time/space Jutsu, there is a possibility of it being copied.

True, but generally, an Uchiha have a bigger Chakra pool than the average Ninja

ask The Gold Knight, Most of the mods know. Or ask an experct like patedecarne. This is mentioned in one of the databooks

Trust me Hiraishin cant be copied. Hiraishin requires tags, the tags are needed to make it work
[hr]
In other words.. Hiraishin is like rasengan. Sure you can copy it its image, but you need the recipe to do it. Hiraishin is tag seals. - thats the recipe to it. You need yondaime to tell you how to do it

another way to support my claim. Kakashi would know it.. or the uchihas would know how it works as well. Uchiha's were still living in the ninja wars, and i'm sure uchiha geniuses fought beside minato
[hr]
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401

Sharigan cant copy tag seals, it can copy handseals

In order to use the technique you need an understanding of the seals involved

its like me writing the letter AB on a paper. The way i wrote AB can be in many ways. I can start from the top, i can start from the bottom. Ofcourse Hiraishin is very complicated, and pretty much impossible to copy. Unless Yondaime/minato sits down with you and explains it.

There thats more clear answer

the tag/rite is also called the "jutsu-shiki". The knowledge of the jutsu-shiki is needed
Hiraishin doesnt use hand seals.

[kkck]

True, but generally, an Uchiha have a bigger Chakra pool than the average Ninja

???????????????????????????????????????
You just made that up, the only time something has been said about uchiha's chakra is when kakashi said that sasuke has more chakra than sakura or when madara said HE(madara) had a strong chakra. Even in those, they were talking about individual ninjas.
I just remembered someoe saying uchiha's had exceptional chakra, but that by no means, means that uchiha's have a lot of chakra. I think he was talking about the quality.

[The Flash]

^^^updated in other post

[Baron Hugenstein]

???????????????????????????????????????
You just made that up, the only time something has been said about uchiha's chakra is when kakashi said that sasuke has more chakra than sakura or when madara said HE(madara) had a strong chakra. Even in those, they were talking about individual ninjas.
I just remembered someoe saying uchiha's had exceptional chakra, but that by no means, means that uchiha's have a lot of chakra. I think he was talking about the quality.

How did i make it up??
How can a small not yet gennin level preform a chuunin level Chakra?
Even Kakashi said he shouldn't have had enough Chakra for it.
Last time i checked the Uchiha always had larger chakra pools than normal ninjas. How can it be in quality, Madara only said that about himself. Besides, how can Chakra change in Quality, it is the same, used to create or preform Jutsu. They all have the same quality.

Also to add to this point, Kyuubi himself said that the Uchiha Chakra was more sinister and powerfu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/03/)l than his own. I personally would believe Kyuubi in these speeches.

[The Flash]

How did i make it up??
How can a small not yet gennin level preform a chuunin level Chakra?
Even Kakashi said he shouldn't have had enough Chakra for it.
Last time i checked the Uchiha always had larger chakra pools than normal ninjas. How can it be in quality, Madara only said that about himself. Besides, how can Chakra change in Quality, it is the same, used to create or preform Jutsu. They all have the same quality

i gave my proof about Hiraishin. Give me the proof of this?

[Baron Hugenstein]

ask The Gold Knight, Most of the mods know. Or ask an experct like patedecarne. This is mentioned in one of the databooks

Trust me Hiraishin cant be copied. Hiraishin requires tags, the tags are needed to make it work
<hr noshade size="1">
In other words.. Hiraishin is like rasengan. Sure you can copy it its image, but you need the recipe to do it. Hiraishin is tag seals. - thats the recipe to it. You need yondaime to tell you how to do it

another way to support my claim. Kakashi would know it.. or the uchihas would know how it works as well. Uchiha's were still living in the ninja wars, and i'm sure uchiha geniuses fought beside minato
<hr noshade size="1">
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401

Sharigan cant copy tag seals, it can copy handseals

In order to use the technique you need an understanding of the seals involved

its like me writing the letter AB on a paper. The way i wrote AB can be in many ways. I can start from the top, i can start from the bottom. Ofcourse Hiraishin is very complicated, and pretty much impossible to copy. Unless Yondaime/minato sits down with you and explains it.

There thats more clear answer

the tag/rite is also called the "jutsu-shiki". The knowledge of the jutsu-shiki is needed
Hiraishin doesnt use hand seals.

Thanks for the link.
I based my post on the fact that Sasuke copied a Taijustu move, and i doubt Taijutsu require any seals, yet Sasuke copied Lee's move with an immature Sharingan, not perfectly but just enough to cast some serious damage to that sound/leaf guy.
What i meant is that The bros could copy the basic moves and counter in some early-stage way, not master it in 5 secs, Sasuke needed a whole month just to speed up his body.
[hr]

i gave my proof about Hiraishin. Give me the proof of this?

There you go (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/naruto_v01_ch007_177/), Unless there was an error in the translation of the early chapters....

[The Flash]

Thanks for the link.
I based my post on the fact that Sasuke copied a Taijustu move, and i doubt Taijutsu require any seals, yet Sasuke copied Lee's move with an immature Sharingan, not perfectly but just enough to cast some serious damage to that sound/leaf guy.
What i meant is that The bros could copy the basic moves and counter in some early-stage way, not master it in 5 secs, Sasuke needed a whole month just to speed up his body.
<hr noshade size="1">


There you go (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/naruto_v01_ch007_177/), Unless there was an error in the translation of the early chapters....

thanks for the link... but that doesnt mean most uchihas have a larger chakra pool.

Sasuke is a super genius, he is one of a kind. He is like Itachi, and Madara. Obviously they are special. Sasuke's chakra is large, but not as large as naruto's( naruto with OUT kyuubi).

But anways can you provide me anything that says uchihas have larger chakra pools? Its not like i dont doubt it. But any proof would be great

as for the sharingan copying things...
Taijutsu is physical movement. Hand seals is also a movement involving the hands. Hiraishin is based on tag seals. Tag seals is very complicated. Its like what i said about the the letters AB on a piece of paper. Or another example - writing something in a whole different language that is unknown to you. You need the knowledge to know this. You can't expect to know this without knowing how the grammar/spelling works.

I believe thats a better example of Hiraishin.

[Baron Hugenstein]

thanks for the link... but that doesnt mean most uchihas have a larger chakra pool.

Sasuke is a super genius, he is one of a kind. He is like Itachi, and Madara. Obviously they are special. Sasuke's chakra is large, but not as large as naruto's( naruto with OUT kyuubi),

Taijutsu is physical movement. Hand seals is alove movement of the hands. Hiraishin is based on tag seals. Tag seals is very complicated. Its like what i said about the the letters AB on a piece of paper. Or another example - writing something in a whole different language that is unknown to you. You need the knowledge to know this.

Hiraishin is like that

No, it doesn't mean that most Uchiha have large chakra. But this thread is partially about Itachi and Sasuke who have large Chakra pools. So it is safe to say that.

^Updated the second above post with a link.

[kkck]

How did i make it up??
How can a small not yet gennin level preform a chuunin level Chakra?
Even Kakashi said he shouldn't have had enough Chakra for it.
Last time i checked the Uchiha always had larger chakra pools than normal ninjas. How can it be in quality, Madara only said that about himself. Besides, how can Chakra change in Quality, it is the same, used to create or preform Jutsu. They all have the same quality.

Also to add to this point, Kyuubi himself said that the Uchiha Chakra was more sinister and powerfu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/03/)l than his own. I personally would believe Kyuubi in these speeches.

Sasuke doing katon at his age is by no means normal, even among uchiha. During bell test kakashi was surprised that sasuke was able to use katon, and that was 6 years after he learned it first. If uchiha kids could normaly use katon at such young age, I would think that a lot of people would know since having a bunch of little firebreathing kidds is probably very hard to keep as a secret.

[Raizen]

No, it doesn't mean that most Uchiha have large chakra. But this thread is partially about Itachi and Sasuke who have large Chakra pools. So it is safe to say that.

^Updated the second above post with a link.
The 3rd hokage was a master of ninjutsu and one of the strongest ninjas, yet even w/ his large chakra pool he was still only able to use 2 KB. KB drains away your chakra like crazy. In a fight against a ninja like Minato who can easily pop up and destroy the KB w/ one hit, it would be unwise to use them. Not only that, uchihas have to be able to use the katon jutsu as a way to show that they have come of age, it is in no way showing that they have huge chakra pool. Sasuke and Itachi are probably around the chakra level of kakashi, and IMO chakra and stamina relate in a way so just look at their stats.

As for hiraishin being copied, NO IT CANNOT BE COPIED. It has been stated numerous times and even in the DB i believe. Most of Minato's techniques can't be copied b/c thye don't require seals like rasengan.

And about Minato not being able to attack right after using hiraishin. FALSE. He teleports to the kunai nearest to the enemy and attack way b4 the enemy even realizes. In the gaiden he obviously could have finished the enemy but he stalled to scare him a bit. As for the elements, I do believe that Minato has wind element. But that is one of many he has I believe. I think he also has fire water and lightning

[Tsukisama]

The 3rd hokage was a master of ninjutsu and one of the strongest ninjas, yet even w/ his large chakra pool he was still only able to use 2 KB. KB drains away your chakra like crazy. In a fight against a ninja like Minato who can easily pop up and destroy the KB w/ one hit, it would be unwise to use them. Not only that, uchihas have to be able to use the katon jutsu as a way to show that they have come of age, it is in no way showing that they have huge chakra pool. Sasuke and Itachi are probably around the chakra level of kakashi, and IMO chakra and stamina relate in a way so just look at their stats.

As for hiraishin being copied, NO IT CANNOT BE COPIED. It has been stated numerous times and even in the DB i believe. Most of Minato's techniques can't be copied b/c thye don't require seals like rasengan.

And about Minato not being able to attack right after using hiraishin. FALSE. He teleports to the kunai nearest to the enemy and attack way b4 the enemy even realizes. In the gaiden he obviously could have finished the enemy but he stalled to scare him a bit. As for the elements, I do believe that Minato has wind element. But that is one of many he has I believe. I think he also has fire water and lightning

With exception of Hiraishin not being able to be copied (which is true as it is based on reverse kuchiyose), where are you getting the basis for your statements?

Why did you bring up Sandaime in this discussion? We don't know that he had an exceptionally large chakra pool. For all we know, he could have been someone like Kakashi, who has a somewhat smaller chakra pool but knows how to use his jutsu effectively. The reason given for why Sandaime did not summon KB by the spectator ANBU members was that he was old and that chakra reserves deplete with advanced age. During his fight with Orochimaru and later with the first two Hokage, Sandaime used several powerful jutsu and ,given what we learned about his chakra pool having depleted with age, it makes sense that he was hesitant about using KB. What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread?

We don't know very much about Yondaime, period; not even after the Kakashi Gaiden would it be correct to say that we have a fundamental understanding of his capabilities. The basis for most of your argument is just unfounded guesswork like the mechanics of Hiraishin or Minato's chakra elements. (How did you deduce that Minato's chakra element is wind? Is it because Naruto's is wind? We don't know that it is automatically based down from parent to child. Plus, Naruto's personality and style of jutsu has been likened more to Kushina. I would be more inclined to think that Kushina has wind element, but I honestly don't know and won't make such a claim on whether she has one element or another.)

I can understand being Yondaime's fan, but you have to keep your arguments on the level of what we are given if you want to claim any sort of triumph in an argument like this. As it stands, Minato may or may not have been powerful enough to defeat the combined force of Itachi and Sasuke. We won't know until we learn more about Minato and more about his jutsu like Hiraishin.

[kkck]

As for the elements, I do believe that Minato has wind element. But that is one of many he has I believe. I think he also has fire water and lightning

I think you forgot earth :):amuse:s:p:D:tem

[Baron Hugenstein]

Sasuke doing katon at his age is by no means normal, even among uchiha. During bell test kakashi was surprised that sasuke was able to use katon, and that was 6 years after he learned it first. If uchiha kids could normaly use katon at such young age, I would think that a lot of people would know since having a bunch of little firebreathing kidds is probably very hard to keep as a secret.

In this, Sasuke is similar to Itachi, both did the Katon at a young age and were considered talented if not geniuses (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/221/05/).
But what Sasuke's dad said is that for an Uchiha to be considered a man and to wear the Clan symbol with pride is to do a Katon(i can't remember exactly but i think he said any katon). Uchihas were known to be great, even at a young age (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/221/06/).(i know in the link, the guy talks about Itachi, but Itachi and Sasuke are both talked about as Geniuses.)
Ern, as i remember it, The Uchihas were known for their Fire jutsus. They were the ones who excelled in them and hence the fan for the clan symbol
[hr]

I think you forgot earth :):amuse:s:p:D:tem

lol, the sixth element too, can't have Minato using only five now, can we?:p...sorry had to say it:darn

[kkck]

In this, Sasuke is similar to Itachi, both did the Katon at a young age and were considered talented if not geniuses (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/221/05/).
But what Sasuke's dad said is that for an Uchiha to be considered a man and to wear the Clan symbol with pride is to do a Katon(i can't remember exactly but i think he said any katon). Uchihas were known to be great, even at a young age (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/221/06/).(i know in the link, the guy talks about Itachi, but Itachi and Sasuke are both talked about as Geniuses.)
Ern, as i remember it, The Uchihas were known for their Fire jutsus. They were the ones who excelled in them and hence the fan for the clan symbol
<hr noshade size="1">
I am not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me lol. Sasuke and itachi managed to pull of a katon at their age because they were extremely talented, but what about other uchiha kids? I dont think every uchiha kid had the talent or chakra to pull that off, that is my main point.

[Baron Hugenstein]

I am not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me lol. Sasuke and itachi managed to pull of a katon at their age because they were extremely talented, but what about other uchiha kids? I dont think every uchiha kid had the talent or chakra to pull that off, that is my main point.

Lol, i agree with you.

Hmm, i have little idea to that, as the only Uchiha kids introduced to us were the bros. But my guess is that they could do it as well, just not as young as Sasuke or Itachi. Perhaps during their later years in the academy or shortly after it.

[Shaunlim]

Hiraishin can't be copied. Even if it could be, it doesn't mean that they could have used it. E.g not having the requirements such as the tag. Afterall Sasuke could have copied Naruto's KB but he didn't.

[Raizen]

Why did you bring up Sandaime in this discussion?
I was saying that when naruto stole the scroll for the KB, i remember something like it was a forbidden scroll due to the toll that KB takes one the user. I mentioned saidame b/c even as a hokage, him using KB was still dangerous as the anbu stated. I am just saying that any other ninja besides naruto using KB is not very smart, especially since they poof w/ 1 attack. Itachi and sasuke already has an advantage in numbers, so making KB would be stupid since the 4th can kill them in a flash.


We don't know very much about Yondaime, period; not even after the Kakashi Gaiden would it be correct to say that we have a fundamental understanding of his capabilities. The basis for most of your argument is just unfounded guesswork like the mechanics of Hiraishin or Minato's chakra elements. (How did you deduce that Minato's chakra element is wind? Is it because Naruto's is wind? We don't know that it is automatically based down from parent to child. Plus, Naruto's personality and style of jutsu has been likened more to Kushina. I would be more inclined to think that Kushina has wind element, but I honestly don't know and won't make such a claim on whether she has one element or another.)
I got his element wind through this
1st hokage's main element was earth, 2nd was water, 3rd seemed to be fire, so I deducted that 4th was wind. It really is speculation. But I do believe that he is wind, while kushina is water given their village. As for the other elements it was something I just wanted tot hrow in just for fun, who knew people would get so pissy about it

As for hiraishin, IF there are chakra on the tags, it would only help to confuse the bros b/c they can see the chakra but they still don't know which one he will attack from. But my guess is the chakra is exerted from minato himself, with none on the tags. Yes this is my opinion, but either way, whether there are chakra on the tags or not, it wouldn't help the uchiha in any case

As for more info on Minato, yes I will be waiting. At the beginning the 1st wasn't all that powerful IMO, but the stories hyped him up, I can see the frog telling stories to naruto that will INCREASE the legend that is already Minato even more.

[Tsukisama]

I was saying that when naruto stole the scroll for the KB, i remember something like it was a forbidden scroll due to the toll that KB takes one the user. I mentioned saidame b/c even as a hokage, him using KB was still dangerous as the anbu stated. I am just saying that any other ninja besides naruto using KB is not very smart, especially since they poof w/ 1 attack. Itachi and sasuke already has an advantage in numbers, so making KB would be stupid since the 4th can kill them in a flash.

The reason why using KB for Sandaime is not applicable to all ninja. Yes, KB divide your chakra amongst the clones, but it was dangerous for Sandaime because he was so old and he resultantly had less chakra. Other ninja still use KB and other versions of clone jutsu (water clones, wood clones, etc.), because it is still useful jutsu. I think that you are confusing the mass shadow clone jutsu that Naruto uses with a regular shadow clone jutsu, which is not a forbidden jutsu but one taught in the academy. Most ninja do not have the chakra to make as many clones as Naruto usually does in a fight, but they can safely implement several clones.

I also don't understand why you say it would be so terrible to use KB over other jutsu. Yondaime can't detect which one would be the clone and which the real person; thus, KB could be used for a valuable diversion tactic. How is KB any more or less dangerous than any other jutsu against Hiraishin? If you were using a jutsu that did not make a clone of yourself, Yondaime could also just appear behind you and attack you without the safety of it being a clone. At least with KB you would buy yourself more time to corner him.


I got his element wind through this
1st hokage's main element was earth, 2nd was water, 3rd seemed to be fire, so I deducted that 4th was wind. It really is speculation. But I do believe that he is wind, while kushina is water given their village. As for the other elements it was something I just wanted tot hrow in just for fun, who knew people would get so pissy about it

Why couldn't Yondaime's element have been lightning? Using the logic you presented for your decision, I would think that Yondaime might be lightning element so that Naruto would be the first wind-element Hokage. As for Kushina, what does being from the Land of Whirlpools have to do with her element? Nidaime's element is apparently water, and Naruto and Asuma's element is wind, but they are all from the Land of Fire.


As for more info on Minato, yes I will be waiting. At the beginning the 1st wasn't all that powerful IMO, but the stories hyped him up, I can see the frog telling stories to naruto that will INCREASE the legend that is already Minato even more.

Shodaime did not become any more powerful than he ever was. We the audience learned more about him, but that does not retroactively counteract any of the statements made about him previously. We now see how great Shodaime is, and since it was said that Sandaime was the strongest of the Hokage and that Yondaime was the "greatest" shinobi of Konoha, it does not make them any less powerful. In fact, it just means that they were much greater by comparison. Thus, learning more about Yondaime won't increase his legend, because his legend is within the context of story. Learning more about him would only serve to give the reader a better understanding of that character.

[kkck]

^ Shadow clone jutsu isnt taught at the academy. At the academy they learn to make regular clones, which do not have any mass. Naruto learn KB from the scroll, what is forbiden is to make hundreds of clones like naruto regularly does. And I think you meant naruto and asuma are wind types lol.

[Tsukisama]

^ Shadow clone jutsu isnt taught at the academy. At the academy they learn to make regular clones, which do not have any mass. Naruto learn KB from the scroll, what is forbiden is to make hundreds of clones like naruto regularly does. And I think you meant naruto and asuma are wind types lol.

Thank you for catching the typo about wind-types :amuse, but I did mean what I had said abot KB being taught at the academy. The Kage Bushin jutsu is something that we see Naruto and other students learning at the academy in the beginning of the series. The forbidden jutsu that is on the scroll is the Taijuu Kage Bushin, which creates a multitude more shadow clones.

[Shaunlim]

^^ actually those are bunshin no jutsu not kage bunshin. Bunshins are just illusions while kage bunshin creates replica of the user.

[The Flash]

henge no jutsu is an illusion to the naked eye, while Kage Bunshin is actually an illusion but physically real(mass)

[Tsukisama]

You're right. I went back and checked the first chapter. I was under the impression that the two different jutsu were KB and TKB, but the first one is B and the forbidden one is KB (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/1/naruto_v01_ch001_025/). Thank you for correcting me.

[Lelo]

I just looked at the results and mostly everyone voted for Minato, How could that be, we dont know much about Minato. You guys really dont give Itachi and the MangekyoSharigan any credit. Minato is my fav character in the Manga, just look at my avatar and sig, but I dont think he would win. IMO, he would kill Sasuke after a small battle and then it would come down to Itachi and a semi tired Minato, Itachi would do Susanoo while Minato is doing Shiki Fūjin then they both will kill eachother leaving no winner. Just think about it, if ur fighting two guys with MS, one could do Tsukyami while the other is doing Amaterasu, thats just too much too handle, and theres still Susanoo. And thats just Ms jutsus, Sasuke and Itachi have other strong jutsus like chidori or Kirin. The only way I see Minato winning is if he does Hiraishin and chops both there heads off at the same time, but that would never happen, Sasuke and Itachi are pretty fast too.

[Shaunlim]

Hiraishin's speed > every single speed. Since it is basically teleportation. So once a tag is on them, it is pretty much game over. Spamming MS would not help as well since it would just waste their chakra and cause them to die even faster. See what happens to Sasuke when he used Amateratsu. With that kind of delay, Sasuke would have died. Itachi's Susano'o is basically a double edge thing as well. All Minato have to do is run around and Itachi would die by killing himself with that jutsu.