The Nishi thread

[georgemarvin]

Personally, I think that Nishi probably cleared several times before his death, because:

1. Nishi had been a Gantz member for over a year before Kei arrived. Oku (the author) stated in the afterword to the 7th book that there had always been a mission every 12 days until the timing changed after the Tanaka mission. Nishi had survived at least 30 missions. He said that "Nishi died just before receiving 100 points", but the statement was ambiguous because he hadn't yet revealed that there were more options besides freedom when a player receives 100 points.

2. Nishi loves to see things die. Chapter 28, page 12 shows that he gets a "boner" from killing a cat, and is powering up his weapon while thinking that he needs to kill something bigger, which means he is planning to kill the kids who found the cat, when the Gantz mission signal surprises him and he walks away, ominously saying "Tonight".

3. At the end of the first mission, Nishi was surprised that so many people survived; he said that it had been a long time since anybody lived. That meant that he probably cleared at least 5 or 6 missions in a row all by himself. If he had just let the timers run out, Gantz would have killed him, just like he threatened to kill Kei after he let a timer run out.

4. At the beginning, Nishi did have a custom suit. He just pressed a button to cycle through several weapons before the first mission. Kei noticed the big rifle appearing in his hand mid-transfer before the mission began. http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/5/03/
He also used it to get the pistol to shoot the thug who had just shot him before the Tanaka mission.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/33/06/
He was evidently trying to get the suit to work when he jumped into the sewer. The title of the issue was even "partial functionality".

5. At the end of the first hunt, Nishi captured the big onion alien easily, and was willing to give Kei the points. He didn't care about getting to 100 points faster, especially when he was so close to having 100, or he wouldn't have done that. He also thought that Kei was a natural born killer like him; he described how much that he enjoyed killing things, and seeing dead things.

Nishi does have a little humanity left, though. Not much, but more than some people give him credit for.
1. Nishi did tell the first group some useful information. They were all going to just go home, which would have meant that Gantz would have killed them as soon as they left the fight zone. When Nishi told them that it was a TV show and they could win 10 million yen, he gave them an incentive to stay within the area. He told them what they needed to do, that they needed to capture or kill the alien. They wouldn't have believed the truth, so he told them a plausible lie, but it did give them a better chance to live than they would have had otherwise.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/5/13/
He also warned Kei and Katou not to tell anybody about Gantz.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/18/

2. If you look at the fight with the vampires, Nishi and Izumi both turned invisible simultaneously, and their moves were perfectly timed; he can be a team player.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/07/
Notice that they hit the vampires simultaneously. The next page shows the corresponding vampire body parts flying off at the same time, despite the pistol's delay. By the way, why doesn't Nishi use a sword? He obviously knew about them from the start, and they are great for short-range combat.

3. After they killed the first two vampires and he told Izumi that it wasn't his fight and Izumi could deal with them, and Izumi said that's what he intended, Nishi didn't leave; he just laid down on the floor in the middle of the aisle. It looks like he's even fluffing up a pillow behind his head. If he had thought that there was any chance that Izumi couldn't handle the vampires, it would have made sense for him to have at least stealthed or walked out the door instead of getting ready to take a nap. He knew exactly what Izumi was going to do and was just getting out of the way.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/11/
If Izumi had gotten into real trouble, Nishi would have been able to re-join the fight.

4. Nishi does care a little about Izumi; he did try to warn the team that Izumi needed help. http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/231/08/ He just warned the wrong team member.

5. Nishi and Izumi both used the new players as bait, used stealth and wore their suits all the time. They seemed to be used to fighting together as a team. From the similarities between them, Nishi could have been Izumi's mentor at one time.

Nishi loves the hunt, and especially the kill.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/18/05/
He's a cruel bastard, too, though.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/03/

Nishi is the closest thing to a purely evil character in the whole manga. He is a natural born killer, a sociopath who gets his kicks out of hunting, stalking his prey, and seeing sentient beings tortured and dead, and is generally pretty much universally hated. However, he isn't a coward. His death scene was meant to show that even the most hardened and bloodthirsty warrior will cry out for his mother and feel fear at the moment of death.

[Mr.Aaron]

Good Job. o_o

I shall edit this once I get home into a post.

[kaliayev]

2.
whatever mission izumi got 100 in, there were three other known survivors. nishi was not among those shown from his perspective, suggesting that nishi probably wasn't the only one out of his sight. here's a pic:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/135/04/

3.
since kurono got his required points in the jurassic mission, we have no way of knowing whether or not gantz's "new rule" was a real threat.

4.
that's a rifle, mate. check out the bottom right panel:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/5/11/

5.
i already brought up the fact that there are probably several y-guns during the first mission in another thread, but there is proof. one of the cover pages from a long time ago (don't remember the chap) had all the weapons laid out on the floor. there are three y-guns on that page. ok, this took too long to find:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/53/01/

1.
can't use them as cannon fodder if they all blow their heads up trying to leave the area.

3.
he was on the floor cause he knew izumi was gonna cut the train in half, starting with his end. it would be pretty foolish of him to do anything but lay down under such circumstances, especially since he would have been the first to get cut. he was just waiting for the fight to move before leaving and calling cherry.

4.
nishi didn't warn the wrong hunter; cherry warned the wrong hunter.

5.
izumi never really used anyone as bait, unless you count the tae mission. he'd go off on his own and actually fight aliens, while nishi would hover around the team and wait for their targets to leave themselves unguarded.

[GAT-X252]

Nishi is a little sadist, but that doesn't mean he isn't a coward.

[TheGenius]

+1 GAT

Nishi never cleared even once. Before dying in the game, he was crying to his mamma that it was almost finished and he wanted to get out of there. Also he didn't possess the H-Gun, which is also a sign that he didn't get a 100 yet.

His score was 92 points.

It's easy to survive while not making a lot of points, Inaba is living example.When Kei was threatened by the monolith, it was because he took a shot of the x-gun @ the monolith. It was "revenge" and also considering the fact that he had to do the mission alone and he "bailed out" from the last Chibi.

[georgemarvin]

2.
whatever mission izumi got 100 in, there were three other known survivors. nishi was not among those shown from his perspective, suggesting that nishi probably wasn't the only one out of his sight. here's a pic:

Yeah, Izumi remembered that he had gotten 100 points then. But that doesn't mean that's the mission that he went home after. He could very well have gotten 100 points multiple times before he decided to go home instead of taking the powerful item. Remember that he took the weapon at the end of the Oni mission.


3.
since kurono got his required points in the jurassic mission, we have no way of knowing whether or not gantz's "new rule" was a real threat. From everything we know about Gantz from the bombs in the heads to the way he treats the team, there are plenty of reasons to believe he was telling the truth, and none to think it was a bluff.

4. Yeah, it's a rifle. But the point remains: he can push a button and a big rifle appears in his hands, mid-transfer. No other suit can do that.

5. The covers aren't really part of the story. The fact that the cover is a drawing of the floor filled with weapons of every type doesn't mean that there are several Y-guns in the Tokyo Gantz room. It's just a neat drawing of an arsenal of weapons.


5. izumi never really used anyone as bait, unless you count the tae mission. he'd go off on his own and actually fight aliens, while nishi would hover around the team and wait for their targets to leave themselves unguarded.
Why not count the Tae mission? But there are plenty of other examples of how much Izumi cares about the newbie Gantzers:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/150/11/

Here are some other examples of how much the other popular Gantz veterans think about the newbs and general public:

In this one, Kei wants the Old Man to drive around in circles in a heavily populated area, causing dozens of deaths just to get a shot at the T-rexes. When the Old Man tells him that people will die, he just says "I don't care".
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/148/04/

In this one, Reika decided not to help the civilians who were dying, and everybody except Katou agreed with her.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/247/07/

In this one, notice that NOBODY, not even goody-two-shoes Katou, bothered to warn either the vampires or the newbs that their heads would explode if they left the area.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/240/05/

In the first mission, Nishi did at least tell the newbs a few things that could help them. Before Nishi could warn the newbs about anything before the second mission, one of them shot him; he had to leave in a hurry. Without Nishi to give them the "10 million yen if you capture the alien" speech, neither Kei nor Kurono bothered to tell them that they couldn't leave the area, or that they had to try to capture the enemy. Result: heads a'popping all over.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/40/06/


Nishi is a little sadist, but that doesn't mean he isn't a coward.

Everybody can agree that Inaba is a coward. In Nishi's case, though, people seem to confuse strategy with cowardice. Nishi was holding a weapon on the Tanaka but instead of shooting, he jumped into a sewer, and the Tanaka followed. He wasn't asking for help; at that time, his suit would change weapons when he clicked a button on the control. It appeared that he was trying to use the control to change weapons; when it didn't work, he warned the Tanaka that he would kill it instead of just shooting.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/37/06/

If you look at the next few pages, he put up a good fight.
He didn't ask for help until his suit, for no good reason, failed completely after he had hit the Tanaka. He was just standing there at the time; it's the only time a suit just quit without taking a hit first. There's also the unexplained sound when the suit quit. One explanation for the sudden failure of the suit that would make sense is that one of the thugs shot him from the railing. After all, he had just killed their friend and they wanted him dead. They all had pistols and his back was turned to them.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/37/15/

Somebody without a suit or a gun, facing even a minor enemy, could be expected to ask for help. And Nishi did.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/38/04/
Not the way I would have phrased it if I was begging for somebody to save my life, but then again nobody ever said Nishi had people skills.

While Reika and the rest of the Tokyo team were hiding out, Nishi was actively hunting Nurarihyon. And he almost got him. He probably got the monster that squished Knob-yan, too. His stealth tactics aren't as heroic as Kaze's reckless fistfights, but they are much more effective.

Nishi isn't a hero, but he's an effective hunter. He does use the newbs for cannon fodder, but so has every general in every army since recorded history began. That's what they are there for. The survivors might make good warriors. But the first battle is a test; if they die, they failed.

[Masterchief]

awww kali beat me to most of the points, but yea as much as I like nishi he is a coward. Then again we've only seen him in 2 missions (Im not counting tanaka cuz he died at that one). I wish he would've lived to fight kannon though that would of been interesting. Also as much as nishi told the first group he couldve told them alot more that would've helped, people might have actually survived the buddha hunt if they knew that if time ran out they would just go back to zero points.


[Edited in responses]

Everything about nishi helping the new hunters out can be seen as both kindness and cowardness. He could of just told em so they would make decent bait and the enemy would expose their weakness(In fact I think that is why if i remember correctly).

Btw maybe all suits have the potential to switch between weapons, maybe the hunters just dont utilize them.

I have 2 questions right now.

Firstly yes I too think that it might've been nishi who killed tengu yet at the same time lag would also play an important role.

Secondly, if nishi was truly on izumi's team then he would know of the bike and sword yet he never used them. Im sure he couldve easily taken out the takana with the sword. In reality it was probably just revealed to advance the plot but in the gantz universe it doesnt make sense.

Oh and lastly yes tokyo team were all a bunch of cowards this time, except sakata. But I think sakata is the one who actually figured out the main point, that you cant beat gantz.

[kaliayev]

*sniff*
i try to stay objective and critique only your evidence, but you still get mad at me.

1. izumi would have referred to himself as a multiple clearer if that were the case. there were several occasions in which he referred to his skills as something a 100 point clearer was capable of, not as something a 200 or 300 point clearer was capable of. still, he was pretty full of himself when it came to his clear count so it would have been fun to see his reaction to osaka's top hunters.

4. i wasn't contesting your point about the suit, which may have been the normal suit anyway (he could have just figured out more advanced options). i was only pointing out that he wasn't carrying a bfg. of course, now i am contesting the suit, so whatever. we've seen that oku can change rules and what not later on. that little beep may have been a simple mistake in the early stage of developing the finer points of gantz.

5. according to you, those occasionally informative, on anything besides the female body and how gantz suits can be cut up to make nifty fashion statements, covers don't count for anything. sigh, i guess those early pics of reika, before she was introduced as a character, and izumi in suits didn't mean anything either. personally, i'd call the cover page of those weapons more clearcut than what you've used as evidence. since you don't believe the cover, i'll go ahead and refer you to my other post on the matter:

http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=920831#post920831

5. i don't count the tae mission because the identity of the target formally pitted the hunters against one another. izumi was primarily trying to rally the hunters to his side in order to prevent kurono from interfering with the mission. he used "bait" against hunters, not aliens. besides, they weren't quite bait since izumi was actively involved in a team effort against kurono and anyone who stood on the side of morality. besides nishi, i think the only other hunter who ever really used other hunters as bait against aliens was one of the biker punks (ironic, don't you think?).

p.s. i don't see what the problematic ethical aspects of the decisions of the other hunters have to do with nishi's morality. two wrongs don't make a right.

[georgemarvin]

*sniff*
i try to stay objective and critique only your evidence, but you still get mad at me.

??? I thought I was just answering your arguments. Didn't know any of my replies sounded angry.
Anyway, here are my replies to your replies.

1. izumi would have referred to himself as a multiple clearer if that were the case.
Izumi barely remembered that one scene when the ball showed 100. He didn't remember much about Gantz, just a few hazy images and a feeling. He didn't remember Nishi at all, and didn't remember HS, even though they had fought before. He didn't even remember the vampires in general, even though they are Gantz's arch-enemy and evidently a recurring problem. Just look at Izumi's character; he loves the thrill of combat too much to quit unless something really traumatic happened.


4. i wasn't contesting your point about the suit, which may have been the normal suit anyway
I accidentally said H-rifle instead of rifle. I fixed it in my post. The point was that the big rifle, pistol and y-gun would all just appear in his hands after he touched a button. Before the second hunt, he accidentally left the Y-gun lying on the floor when he killed the punk and told Gantz to teleport him first, so it was no longer in his arsenal. He may have been trying to get the control to cycle to the y-gun when he jumped into the sewer. He could have killed the Tanaka any time when he was stealthing and following it. Instead, he even warned it before shooting when it followed him into the sewer and he was trying to get the control to work. He didn't need the sword; the pistol would have been sufficient.
5. You're making my point: the Gantz covers aren't part of the current storyline. They can be anything from the past or future. I think one early one even had a drawing of an H-gun. The fact that the cover had more than one y-gun on it doesn't mean that the current room has more than one in it. If a cover shows a bunch of weapons that haven't been introduced yet, it doesn't mean anything to the current story line. The fact that a cover has Kishimoto on it 50 issues after she died doesn't mean that she will be in that issue, any more than a cover with three y-guns or an H-gun on it means that they are currently in the room. The covers aren't useless. They are great for foreshadowing and looking back but they aren't part of the current story.

In response to your other post about the Y-gun:
Chapter 5, page 2 the top panel shows one Y-gun on the floor. The bottom panel shows it in Katou's hand. There isn't one on the floor for the rest of the issue after that panel. Katou carries the y-gun from the bottom panel of issue 5, page 2 until he drops it.
If the Y-gun was a reward weapon, and Nishi was watching Katou the whole time, wouldn't it make sense that he would pick it up when Katou dropped it? A weapon that's especially useful against powerful boss monsters that are tough to kill but easy to send would be worth retrieving.

nishi would have had to go looking around for it on the hill, which isn't something he's likely to do for a simple y-gun
Nishi wouldn't have to "hunt for it". He was watching the whole fight from stealth. All he had to do was walk over and pick it up, like he did with the H-gun during this last hunt.
[hr]

Secondly, if nishi was truly on izumi's team then he would know of the bike and sword yet he never used them. Im sure he couldve easily taken out the takana with the sword. In reality it was probably just revealed to advance the plot but in the gantz universe it doesnt make sense.

Actually, that one does make perfect sense. You just have to think like a hunter.
Before he died, we only saw Nishi on two hunts against small game.
I have a 4-wheeler, a 12 gauge shotgun, a .30-06 deer rifle, a 9 mm pistol, a .22 rifle and several other guns, as well as several assorted knives for various purposes, and a hunting bow. I will definitely leave all of that stuff except the .22 at home if I go hunting rabbits or squirrels. On the other hand, if I am hunting a deer on my own land, I will carry the bow, a few arrows and a skinning knife for field dressing; everything else stays home. I'll take the pistol if I'm hunting a rattlesnake to make a hatband or belt. If I am going to South Georgia into a big forest, I will take the 4-wheeler, the pistol in case of rattlesnakes and the deer rifle for the intended game, as well as an assortment of knives and a hatchet. I'll also carry a first aid kit and take a thermos of coffee and some beef jerky.
The fact is, only a fool or a rank amateur is going to load himself down with a crapload of stuff he doesn't need for a small-game hunt. Likewise, the same seasoned hunter will take the big guns when he thinks they may be necessary. Nishi had no reason to use the bike against the lowly onion alien and Tanaka, any more than I would need a 4-wheeler and shotgun to kill a rabbit. The bike would have just alerted that quarry that he was there, and just about any weapon in the entire arsenal was good enough to kill the low-level game. As for the sword, it may have been Izumi's weapon of choice, and Nishi has used one at least once, against the vampires in the subway, but it isn't for everybody. In fact, it's one of the least useful weapons in the arsenal. Like a .22 rifle or a hatchet, it's a situational weapon.
If you look at this last hunt, Nishi definitely knew about the bike, but he didn't use it. He's about like a hunter who prefers the stalk rather than using a tree stand. Like a hunter who stays downwind from the quarry, covers his scent, and wears camouflage to sneak up on the prey, Nishi uses the suit's stealth features to get close to his prey. Believe me, it's a lot harder than you would think to sneak up on a deer till you're close enough to kill it with a bow and arrow. Nishi gets that same rush. Going in with guns blasting is for the Sunday hunters, not the people who live for the game.

[kaliayev]

1.

Just look at Izumi's character; he loves the thrill of combat too much to quit unless something really traumatic happened.

hmmm, for some reason, you want to believe that izumi's personality, from the first time he entered to the second time he entered, never changed. if that were the case, he never would have left in the first place. even after getting his ass handed to him in his duel with the oni boss, he chose to stay. i highly doubt he encountered anything as frightening as the oni boss during his first run in gantz. if he had, he would have done what kurono did and let the timer run out. of course, if that had happened, he would have lost his points. there's simply no way he would have left gantz the first time if that hadn't been his priority from the start. it's remarkable how much a person can change after leaving. look at kurono. he actually gave someone correct subway directions after he left. XD

if izumi has the wherewithal to know which room opens up, which is something no hunter tried during his interim phase (in hindsight, it is safe to assume that nishi left that room closed in order to keep the noobs from finding the more powerful equipment), he can remember what his score was when he left (pretty freaking hilarious that he got exactly 100 points).

i'd say that the visual of his points and a few of the other hunters was the clearest memory he had from gantz. there' a clear difference between that image and something like nishi's face. it was an important event to him and he was in the same room where it happened, so he was able to remember it. same kinda thing happened with tae when she was in kurono's apartment. if you were busy fighting a horde of aliens by yourself, while some punk just hid in the shadows without doing anything, would you remember said punk after gantz blocked some neural pathways? besides, izumi's memories are fairly egoistical in the first place. in the tae mission, he didn't remember that cherry and sakata were psychics, even though he encountered them in shinjuku. jebus, he probably doesn't even remember who inaba is half the time. people he considers small fries don't concern him, and it is probable that nishi was a small fry when izumi left. however, because it was an important event in the advancement of his self-interest, what we saw at the start of the jurassic mission stood out in his mind.

maybe izumi never actually met host-samurai. there has been an occasion where the vamps have just stood at the sidelines as spectators. at the lecture akira went to, the vamps also had pics of several hunters, besides izumi, that weren't a part of the current tokyo team. it could be that host-samurai only ever saw a picture of the legend. it's also possible that the vamps didn't get involved in things until izumi's last mission, so he didn't remember them as clearly. or, if we go with the injury theory, maybe a random alien injured him right before he met host-samurai.

@gat
you mind checking on this translation:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/159/12/

for him to have remembered either of these two, assuming they made a strong enough impact on him in the first place, he'd probably have to back to where he his strongest memories of them occurred in order to play some visual sequences out in his head.

5.
again, there are at least two y-guns. if it was a reward weapon, there would be only one:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/18/18/

since oku went through the trouble of showing us three y-guns, with the arsenal racks emptied, on a cover instead of showing us some random half-naked manga chick, i'm pretty sure he meant to communicate that there are three y-guns available to the hunters.

p.s. arrrgh, why am i getting dragged into a thread that i'm not that interested in?

[georgemarvin]

hmmm, for some reason, you want to believe that izumi's personality, from the first time he entered to the second time he entered, never changed. if that were the case, he never would have left in the first place.
Well, people's basic personalities usually don't change much. He may act a little differently with his memories than without them, but most of the dominant traits will still be there.
The truth is, Izumi's memory is just swiss cheese, the muddled goop that's left over after a sloppy, ham-handed attempt at doing a partial memory wipe by Gantz. He has a few fuzzy memories, but they aren't necessarily what he wanted to save, just whatever that Gantz didn't manage to totally delete. We can't tell from the scraps of memory that he has left whether he completed once and left or if he went for the powerful weapon several times before he left. It's likely that the original Izumi left after something truly traumatic, not just because he reached 100 points. He is by nature a competitor. That wouldn't change even if Gantz wiped out every memory he ever had. He has strong emotional ties to the Gantz room, too. Gantz can't erase those, either.

We do know that he remembers one hunt. He chose the same location to start the massacre that would send him back to the room.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/119/16-17/
We also know that he remembers hitting 100 points, probably the first time, maybe the only time. It would be a special moment that would be hard to erase.
Kei and Tae also got the swiss cheese treatment from Gantz. He could erase most of their memories but not their basic personalities and emotions.


5. again, there are at least two y-guns. if it was a reward weapon, there would be only one:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/18/18/

Point conceded. I hadn't noticed that panel. Looks like there are two Y-guns. Nishi has one Y-gun in his hand, the other one is on the floor.
About reward weapons: There is no reason why there couldn't be multiples of the reward weapons in the arsenal room. The H-guns may not be a 1st time reward, but the three sadists who had only completed once had them. It's likely that when the team ever thinks to look in the arsenal room, they will find Izumi's new reward weapon and they might even find some other reward stuff lying around.


p.s. arrrgh, why am i getting dragged into a thread that i'm not that interested in?
Same reason as me: you're bored and it's still a LONG time before the new issue comes out.


@gat
you mind checking on this translation:
Yeah, Gat, how about it? A new translation of 159/12 would be great. That's one of those dialogues that just doesn't quite look right as-is. Several issues in that range have some dubious translations.

[kaliayev]

about izumi:
ok, we're clearly not gonna agree on this and this is the nishi thread, so i'm done talking about izumi's memory loss.

about reward weapons:
i'm under the impression that gantz treats the reward weapons like he does the suits (in terms of cycling, not one size fits one). he'll keep your size in stock if you left it there. if you die and someone takes what used to be your slot, the new member starts with a fresh suit. since he doesn't get your suit, he doesn't get your weapons either. if you get revived, you might get your stuff back. of course, we won't know if either of us is right unless we see the osakan room again.

[GAT-X252]

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/159/12/

That translation is just fine.

[kaliayev]

@gat
ok, wording still seems a little odd, but what can we do?

4.
ok, may finally be able to clear up this custom suit business. it doesn't appear that nishi has a custom suit. based on these sketches, there is another button on the radar tool:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/142/22/

as you can see, there is a button where the radar attaches to the wrist. in the page you pointed out to us, nishi appears to be applying pressure to the area where the button would be. this shows that nishi had better knowledge about the equipment, but it also proves that his suit isn't special. kudos on discovering the feature in the first place, as it does present an interesting amount of flexibility for the hunters (well, for nishi at least). also, nishi may be able to incorporate the bfg into his weapon cycle in the future.

[Masterchief]

it seems nishi is one of the smart hunters, he probably went through the suit and weapons a few times trying to find out all he can, my real question is why make a site about it?


-- btw anyone gonna make an izumi thread?

[kaliayev]

@chief
since all the hunters from previous missions died during their respective hunts, he had no one to brag to after getting his points. the internet was how he fulfilled his desire to brag. plus, if he ever decided to leave, he'd have a nice record of his time in gantz (thank you cookies, password manager, and favorites/homepage). it also could have been his subconscious getting the better of him. while he never wanted to directly help anybody else, his subconscious told him to make a website. this website, if discovered, could be used as a guidebook for hunters all over the world, though oka's might have been a tad more informative. XD

uh, you can make that thread if you want.

[Masterchief]

bragging rights kinda seems like nishi I guess, but at the same time kinda wierd of him to though, especially considering that one wrong move could've cost him his life. I wonder what gantz would do though if someone managed to make a succesful site of all gantz info before they died.

and as for the thread nah im too sleepy too right now its 4 am here.

ok this is gonna be my last post too sleepy but after identifying it ive found out that it could actually be nishi who killed the tengu

here knob fires 2 shots which both hit tengu in the arm
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/262/22/

here he fires off 2 more one which hits tengu on the left shoulder and another one which wipes off nearly half of tengu's face
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/262/23/

however thats the last shot he fires off before he was captured
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/262/24/

then awhile later
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/263/04/

if you ask me it all fits together seeing as nishi had hold of an h-gun when he took down nuri.

[kaliayev]

nishi didn't pick up that gun until here:

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/266/04/

i'm inclined to believe george when he called it lag. he's probably more experienced at recognizing such things than we are, especially when it comes to bfg lag.

[Masterchief]

dunna seems to late to be lag to me, its wierd though cuz we never see him fire off that shot. And when did he use the h-gun?

[georgemarvin]

i'm inclined to believe george when he called it lag. he's probably more experienced at recognizing such things than we are, especially when it comes to bfg lag.

Tengu's head explodes from a standard X-gun, not an H-gun. There is always a second or two of lag, but not long enough to have a whole 30 second long conversation, depending on how fast they were talking. My own times saying the lines in a slow southern drawl averaged 37 seconds, but the japanese do talk a little faster than we do down here.

It looks like Nishi did kill Tengu. He would be the only one who was both in the area and inclined to help. Not that he would care about saving Knob, but Tengu was worth quite a few points.

Wish Oku would publish a mock-up of Nishi's website for us fans. It would be interesting to see some of Nishi's accounts of his adventures before Kei and Katou arrived.
[hr]

as you can see, there is a button where the radar attaches to the wrist. in the page you pointed out to us, nishi appears to be applying pressure to the area where the button would be. this shows that nishi had better knowledge about the equipment, but it also proves that his suit isn't special.
It isn't absolute proof, but it does look like you're probably right. All of the suits may be able to "store" the player's whole arsenal, so they can carry all of their weapons conveniently and don't have to build all of those holsters and things. Nishi just knows how to use the feature, and isn't bothering to show any of the others how to do it.

And it does present some neat possibilities for the whole team.

We may know more about the rules concerning reward weapons after the next issue. We'll probably also get to see if the BFG is really the 100 point reward, or if somebody more experienced gave them to the three sadists.

[Fundefined]

Nishi wasn't Izumi's mentor, it's the other way around

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/222/02/

[georgemarvin]

That page shows that at one time, Izumi was the leader of the group. We know from the scraps of the webpage that Nishi was a Gantz member for at least 14 months, from the date on his first journal entry and the date on the last entry. He was probably a member for longer than that, since he probably wouldn't have started the web page immediately after his first mission. That's plenty of time to see a lot of leaders come and go. The typical Gantz member will either get 100 points and go home or die within about 3 to 6 missions. According to Oku and the Gantz manual, the missions were every 12 days until the 1000 arms mission, so Nishi has been in 30+ missions. He probably saw at least a half-dozen leaders either go home, like Izumi, or bite the big one. I suggested that he may have been trying to groom Kei for the position when he tried his best to get Kei to kill the onion alien after Nishi had captured it. He may very well have done the same for Izumi when he first arrived, with much more satisfactory results.

[TheGenius]

I think in some strange fashion, that Nishi tried to be lead on the first mission that Kei and Katou took part. There is something that I can't pinpoint that makes me feel like Nishi was actually trying to be nice, and finally not be alone anymore doing the missions.

[kaliayev]

meh, he probably just helped a little more because kei was the first noob to wear a suit in a long time. it would have been in nishi's interest to give each incoming group just enough info to possibly survive and/or kill a few things since point values and difficulty would go up if a new team was assembled. after all, he complained about how few points he was getting. however, i don't think it was nearly as complex as george is making it out to be. i highly doubt that izumi would have put up with any of the shit nishi ended up pulling with kei.

[staytough]

I don't know if Izumi wouldn't have put up with it, because we can assume that he was a different person back then.
Maybe he wasn't the stone cold killer from the beginning?
He was the leader of his group in the past but after rejoining gantz he was no team player anymore.
And when he died he saved his girlfriend and said that he will go to hell for all the people he has killed (he showed some kind of remorse that didn't fit to his present self).

So we could assume that he was kinda like Kurono when he first joined gantz and would have put up with Nishi because he only killed aliens or thought that Nishi could be a good resource for information and/or killing aliens.

btw Nishi-Izumis and Kurono-Izumis relationship seem kind of alike:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/01/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/17/

[kaliayev]

whatever izumi's team was like, i doubt they resembled the "cut off my limbs and i'll forgive/accept you" team that exists now thanks to katou, gramps, kurono, and partly reika. if anyone creates alliances in a situation like gantz, the lone wolf is gonna go down. cause you know what, gantz really is nothing more than a prison that's instituted a new form of "community service." and if prison shows have taught me anything, it's that the person that resembles nishi will usually get some pleasantries up the ass or killed faster than gantz can say, "game on, bitches!" in other words, nishi wouldn't have lived through a month had he pulled that kinda crap during izumi's reign.

p.s. maybe gantz would never say that but that's beside the point.

[georgemarvin]

if prison shows have taught me anything, it's that the person that resembles nishi will usually get some pleasantries up the ass or killed faster than gantz can say, "game on, bitches!" in other words, nishi wouldn't have lived through a month had he pulled that kinda crap during izumi's reign.
Gantz is nothing like a prison; it's more like an army. The troops go in to do battle against the enemy, then get a furlough to go home until they are needed again. If they are successful, they get weapons instead of promotions. They can leave after they have served their tour of duty, in this case it's not a set length of time but after they have contributed a certain amount to the war effort. Most of them will grumble about being conscripted against their will, but most of the veterans will re-enlist when they are offered a token incentive (better weapon).

Nishi, Kaze, Izumi and Kei in particular don't think of Gantz as a prison. Nishi loves the game too much to ever leave. Kaze lives to fight. Izumi literally both killed and died to return. Before the 1000 arms mission, Katou had nightmares about the room, while Kei couldn't wait to go back. Notice in the call to Cherry, Nishi said that there were too many vampires for his "off-duty life" and he "wouldn't get any points". He thinks of Gantz like people think of their military service.

Nishi would be a survivor in most armies; he has the skills to avoid being captured or killed while infiltrating the enemy's strongholds. He's smart, cautious and capable. He is very similar to a member of an elite infiltration squad. They aren't generally very friendly. In fact, they can be downright antisocial. They've seen friends die, so they are stand-offish. They may try to recruit somebody if they think he's really superior, but they look down on most people as totally inferior. They don't want to work with amateurs or rookies. They may hate the job, but it defines their existence, so they keep doing it. They are the ones who re-enlist until they die.

Come to think of it, I figured out who Nishi reminds me of:
1. My uncle. He was a sniper during WW II. Everybody says that before he went to war, he was normal. When I remember him, he had many of Nishi's attitudes and features. A sense of wariness like he thought that an enemy could be around any corner. A sense of fatality, like he was going to die soon, so he didn't care what people thought about his actions. A special kind of guilt, that of somebody who had lived when all of his friends had died. A cruelty, that of somebody who had 46 confirmed kills and thought of human life as a cheap commodity. He wouldn't have thought twice about killing somebody; he shot a man inside a police station.
2. my brother-in-law. He's in Iraq right now. He has a tremendous pride in his service, but he's becoming cold, cruel and suspicious of everybody. It seems to be a hazard of combat duty.
3. my business partner's son. He's on his third tour. Before his first tour, he was one of the friendliest guys you ever met. Now, he stands to the side of the room with his buddies on leave, and they don't socialize much with us civilians. They evidently consider us to be something akin to rabble. Not worth their notice. He has went from a natural born cynic to a true believer, too. And some of his war stories show that "collateral damage" has become acceptable in his eyes. Like parking a jeep in front of the house of a suspected terrorist; if he and his family are dead the next morning, they weren't terrorists. If they are alive, the suspect is arrested. He would never have accepted, much less been enthusiastic about, tactics like that before his first tour.
4. And, to some degree, a friend who survived 6 years of service in Vietnam. That guy's much worse than Nishi, though. He's totally loopy. You'll just be sitting there and suddenly the couch is turned over and he's pulling you down behind it, yelling to get down and looking for some unseen enemy. Paranoid, antisocial, scared of his own shadow. Has a load of medals, though.

[TheGenius]

Gantz is nothing like a prison; it's more like an army. The troops go in to do battle against the enemy, then get a furlough to go home until they are needed again. If they are successful, they get weapons instead of promotions. They can leave after they have served their tour of duty, in this case it's not a set length of time but after they have contributed a certain amount to the war effort. Most of them will grumble about being conscripted against their will, but most of the veterans will re-enlist when they are offered a token incentive (better weapon).

Nishi, Kaze, Izumi and Kei in particular don't think of Gantz as a prison. Nishi loves the game too much to ever leave. Kaze lives to fight. Izumi literally both killed and died to return. Before the 1000 arms mission, Katou had nightmares about the room, while Kei couldn't wait to go back. Notice in the call to Cherry, Nishi said that there were too many vampires for his "off-duty life" and he "wouldn't get any points". He thinks of Gantz like people think of their military service.

Nishi would be a survivor in most armies; he has the skills to avoid being captured or killed while infiltrating the enemy's strongholds. He's smart, cautious and capable. He is very similar to a member of an elite infiltration squad. They aren't generally very friendly. In fact, they can be downright antisocial. They've seen friends die, so they are stand-offish. They may try to recruit somebody if they think he's really superior, but they look down on most people as totally inferior. They don't want to work with amateurs or rookies. They may hate the job, but it defines their existence, so they keep doing it. They are the ones who re-enlist until they die.

Come to think of it, I figured out who Nishi reminds me of:
1. My uncle. He was a sniper during WW II. Everybody says that before he went to war, he was normal. When I remember him, he had many of Nishi's attitudes and features. A sense of wariness like he thought that an enemy could be around any corner. A sense of fatality, like he was going to die soon, so he didn't care what people thought about his actions. A special kind of guilt, that of somebody who had lived when all of his friends had died. A cruelty, that of somebody who had 46 confirmed kills and thought of human life as a cheap commodity. He wouldn't have thought twice about killing somebody; he shot a man inside a police station.
2. my brother-in-law. He's in Iraq right now. He has a tremendous pride in his service, but he's becoming cold, cruel and suspicious of everybody. It seems to be a hazard of combat duty.
3. my business partner's son. He's on his third tour. Before his first tour, he was one of the friendliest guys you ever met. Now, he stands to the side of the room with his buddies on leave, and they don't socialize much with us civilians. They evidently consider us to be something akin to rabble. Not worth their notice. He has went from a natural born cynic to a true believer, too. And some of his war stories show that "collateral damage" has become acceptable in his eyes. Like parking a jeep in front of the house of a suspected terrorist; if he and his family are dead the next morning, they weren't terrorists. If they are alive, the suspect is arrested. He would never have accepted, much less been enthusiastic about, tactics like that before his first tour.
4. And, to some degree, a friend who survived 6 years of service in Vietnam. That guy's much worse than Nishi, though. He's totally loopy. You'll just be sitting there and suddenly the couch is turned over and he's pulling you down behind it, yelling to get down and looking for some unseen enemy. Paranoid, antisocial, scared of his own shadow. Has a load of medals, though.

Funny! in some ways...

Nishi has accumulated boat loads of points though, it's impressive, the hide and shoot technique prevails against the small fry. For foes such as Mino, a direct approach seems necessary. But I'm more and more at ease with Nishi. He grows on me the little bastard.

He should be a strategist and confirm his lone position in the group, kinda like your uncle, or Togo, a snipping back-up. If there could be 2 of them, I think the team would suffer less injuries and would be combat-able, longer than what they are used to.

[Unholy]

george u look like a nishi fan girl.Honestly nishi would most likely survive a war but that would be because he is a coward that would stay hidden till the war was over.His tactics to survive in gantz could be done by anyone the only thing that it takes is not to care about other people besides urself, he never puts his ass in danger not because he is skilled it is just because if u are in steath and does not engage the target the enemy wont find u and attack u back (such skills to stay quiet and do nothing).Nishi does not love gantz for gods sake are u insane? If he liked to put his life in danger to kill aliens he would have fought the vampires when izumi was there, wonder why he didnt? because there were no points to be gained and killing them would not make him any closer to getting 100 points and getting free from the game.He is not there like izumi and the ozakas because he fells alive in gantz he is there because he was forced to be there.Nishi is smart i give u that going steath and waiting for the perfect chance to strike while the others gantzer are distracting/dieing/fighting the aliens is by far the safest way to get 100 points but is also slow, and it takes no real skills, nishi was also quite smart on the first mission telling everybody it was a game, but he didnt do it because he cared about anyone he did it because if they all died trieng to go home he would have no baits to use.

[georgemarvin]

george u look like a nishi fan girl.
No need to be insulting. We're discussing a character in a comic book. Nasty remarks don't help the debate.
Since you brought it up, though: Nishi isn't my favorite character. He wouldn't even be in my top 5. My favorites would be: Kei, Katou, Sei, the Old Man and Tae. I also like Kaze and Kishimoto. Much as I like Kaze, though, he should have been one of the first to die; his fighting style is fine for an arena, but terrible for a battlefield. And Kishimoto was a great character, but she shouldn't ever come back. And Reika is the best cheesecake character.
Izumi, Nishi, HS, Knob, George, Kuwabara and the other bada$$es are interesting characters, though. It's a lot of fun figuring out their motives. And Nishi has been around a long time and knows a lot about Gantz, which makes him an even more interesting character.


Honestly nishi would most likely survive a war but that would be because he is a coward that would stay hidden till the war was over.
Yeah, I'm sure he was trembling in fear when he took out the Onion Alien after it shredded Katou and Kei thought he was a goner. Nishi got 75 points this last hunt and almost took out Nurarihyon by himself. I would be more likely to say that Nishi used stealth to his advantage.


he never puts his ass in danger not because he is skilled it is just because if u are in steath and does not engage the target the enemy wont find u and attack u back (such skills to stay quiet and do nothing).
Yeah, tackling the 100 point boss Nurarihyon and getting his arm blown off, not to mention killing the Tengu to save Knob-yan after the Osakans said they would kill anybody who interfered with their hunt was realllly cowardly. The scene that makes people think Nishi is a coward is that he asked for help after his suit had died and he had lost his gun. Even Kaze would have enough sense to ask for help in a situation like that.


Nishi does not love gantz for gods sake are u insane?
Sure he does. Remember the first hunt, after he had captured the Onion Alien. He told Kei exactly that: he loved the hunt. He loved seeing the aliens die. He saved Kei because he thought that Kei was just like him. He was mad when he saw that Kei didn't like killing for fun. Gantz is the only place that will allow Nishi to get his kicks by killing other sentient beings just for fun.


If he liked to put his life in danger to kill aliens he would have fought the vampires when izumi was there, wonder why he didnt? because there were no points to be gained and killing them would not make him any closer to getting 100 points and getting free from the game.
We'll see when Nishi gets his 100 points. He does want them for something, but it's not going home.he's already 75% of the way there; he should hit 100 next mission.
I don't think Nishi wants a BFG, unless it's to throw it to somebody else; his own method of hunting doesn't make them a real advantage in most situations. He probably won't rez anybody, either. He may bank the points toward a better reward; there's been some speculation about whether that's how Oka got the big robot.
If you can't bank the points, I think he will probably revive somebody, but it won't be Izumi or anybody from the current roster. It will be somebody from before Kei arrived.
He didn't tackle the vampires when they had their all-out assault on Izumi because, just like he said, the odds were against Izumi, he was off-duty, and he wasn't getting paid to fight them. That's just like if you saw somebody beating up a little guy, you might walk up and tell them to leave him alone, even if it meant that you would be getting into the fight. If 100 bikers were attacking somebody with knives and tire irons, you might want to help, but when you looked at the odds, you would probably decide that discretion was the better part of valor. You would call the police and hope that they arrived in time to help. Nishi has been around long enough to know that there are some battles that you can't win.


Nishi is smart i give u that going steath and waiting for the perfect chance to strike while the others gantzer are distracting/dieing/fighting the aliens is by far the safest way to get 100 points but is also slow, and it takes no real skills
Actually, kill stealing would be a very fast way to get to 100 points. He could just stand there in stealth mode and wait for the perfect shot and get more points than anybody else every mission. If the average mission was 100 points total, he could probably steal half of the points that way.
Of course his method of hunting would take skill. Try playing a stealther in WoW or UO. They're the hardest characters to play. In real life, the infiltration units are elite soldiers. It's the infantry who don't require much skill.


nishi was also quite smart on the first mission telling everybody it was a game, but he didnt do it because he cared about anyone he did it because if they all died trieng to go home he would have no baits to use.
Did Nishi really need them for bait? Think about it. He could have used the capture gun on the big onion alien any time he wanted. It didn't even know he was there; he probably had it in his sights as soon as he transferred in. He did rescue Kei when the onion alien had cut Katou's arm up and was standing over them. The little onion alien wasn't even a challenge for the rookies. The only reason he did that was to see whether any of them was capable of making a Gantzer. When he was telling Katou that he used them for bait, he was just trying to show Katou how little that their lives mattered and that he was big and bad. Nishi couldn't tell anybody outside the team about Gantz, so he needed somebody to brag to. In fact, the guy with the glasses was the first to say that it was a TV show; Nishi just picked up on what they were already speculating.

[Unholy]

Yeah, I'm sure he was trembling in fear when he took out the Onion Alien after it shredded Katou and Kei thought he was a goner. Nishi got 75 points this last hunt and almost took out Nurarihyon by himself. I would be more likely to say that Nishi used stealth to his advantage.

Sorry for the comment earlier guess i crossed the line.Back on topic whats ur point here anyway? Nishi took down a 3 pointer (weak ass alien for someone that has being in gantz for 1 year) and only did so after kei had beaten him up.As for the tengu we cant be sure if he did it bad the same thing works if he did it he only did it after the tengu was beaten up, george or kuwa could have done the same thing as anyone else could, nishi makes good use of the steath but what he does could be done by anyone.




Yeah, tackling the 100 point boss Nurarihyon and getting his arm blown off, not to mention killing the Tengu to save Knob-yan after the Osakans said they would kill anybody who interfered with their hunt was realllly cowardly. The scene that makes people think Nishi is a coward is that he asked for help after his suit had died and he had lost his gun. Even Kaze would have enough sense to ask for help in a situation like that.

Again if he killed the tengu on steath none saw it so he wasent really in danger, as for for nury same coward tactic works here, while katou was distracting nury (well he was about to die nury was still paing attencion to katou) nishi came and blown of the ecchi form, nury changed form his attencion switched to nishi, nishi lost his arm.


Sure he does. Remember the first hunt, after he had captured the Onion Alien. He told Kei exactly that: he loved the hunt. He loved seeing the aliens die. He saved Kei because he thought that Kei was just like him. He was mad when he saw that Kei didn't like killing for fun. Gantz is the only place that will allow Nishi to get his kicks by killing other sentient beings just for fun.



Did Nishi really need them for bait? Think about it. He could have used the capture gun on the big onion alien any time he wanted. It didn't even know he was there; he probably had it in his sights as soon as he transferred in. He did rescue Kei when the onion alien had cut Katou's arm up and was standing over them. The little onion alien wasn't even a challenge for the rookies. The only reason he did that was to see whether any of them was capable of making a Gantzer. When he was telling Katou that he used them for bait, he was just trying to show Katou how little that their lives mattered and that he was big and bad. Nishi couldn't tell anybody outside the team about Gantz, so he needed somebody to brag to. In fact, the guy with the glasses was the first to say that it was a TV show; Nishi just picked up on what they were already speculating.

Yes he used them for bait, same thing happened on the tanaka alien he was following the alien when he steped on one of his little friends, i can agree on nishi checking for strong gantzer because that would make the missions easier for him and increase his chances to survive.My bet is if nishi got 100 points instead of dieng he would have asked to go free but since everything is changing and civilians are no longer free i can see him reviving someone h-gun would be pretty useless for his playstyle.

[georgemarvin]

Did Nishi kill Tengu and try to take out Nurarihyon just for the points, or is there a little humanity left in him somewhere? After all, he saved both Knob-yan and Katou. He could have smashed all of Nurarihyon, probably killing both Nuri and Katou, or hit Nuri again before Katou had time to get free. But he didn't, even though he just barely let Katou get out before he fired again.

75 points this round. Looks like we'll get to see what he does with his 100 points sooner rather than later.

I wonder who said "Punk!" when his score came up? Looks like he's already making enemies. Maybe Inaba wants to challenge him? I can see Inaba's face exploding like the biker punk's did.

Nishi's tactics worked pretty well this time; if he had just hunted a few more small game instead of saving Katou and trying to take out mega-boss Nuri, he would have had 100 points just like Katou.

[Unholy]

Did Nishi kill Tengu and try to take out Nurarihyon just for the points, or is there a little humanity left in him somewhere? After all, he saved both Knob-yan and Katou. He could have smashed all of Nurarihyon, probably killing both Nuri and Katou, or hit Nuri again before Katou had time to get free. But he didn't, even though he just barely let Katou get out before he fired again.

75 points this round. Looks like we'll get to see what he does with his 100 points sooner rather than later.

I wonder who said "Punk!" when his score came up? Looks like he's already making enemies. Maybe Inaba wants to challenge him? I can see Inaba's face exploding like the biker punk's did.

Nishi's tactics worked pretty well this time; if he had just hunted a few more small game instead of saving Katou and trying to take out mega-boss Nuri, he would have had 100 points just like Katou.

Well never argued about his tactics working because they do but they are still coward, anyway nishi dosent care much about others whoever in nurys case nishi felt like he had already won, nury couldnt really do shit in the state he was in (before he changed forms i mean) since there was no risk for him, he let katou get away before shotting whoever he didnt know nury would regenerate and take his arm off, nishi is not as cold blooded as izumi to go around killing random inocents, he is inhuman in another sense, first of all he wont kill humans but he wont help either, and he hides vital information that could help everybody else survive without any reason (if he had told people the truth on the first mission many would survive, like it happened on the second mission with katou teaching people about the suit) in a way he dosent kill whoever he cross his arms when he could save many (the first mission we got a 3 pointer for someone that was in gantz for so long a 3 pointer should be nothing but nishi still watched while everybody got killed).About the tengu i wouldnt really count it as an act to help knob, my guess would be nishi felt that tengu was worth alot and tengu was a sitting duck there nishi wouldnt lose such a good oportunity, besides if he had waited any longer knob would really die and george/kuwa would finish of the tengu.I dont see why inaba would challenge nishi to be honest i think he is gonna be alot more worried about how useless he has being so far, the score will show he even lost to little tareshi, i guess inaba will be spending his time working/thinking on how to become stronger/better.

[staytough]

Okay here are my 5 cent about Nishi-kun:

Why is Nishi a coward?
Gantz is a survival of the fittest not the survival of the most insane bastards who can beat aliens even if they are nude or druggys.
It's funny to read about guys like Kuwa and all the other Osakans, Izumi, Kei etc. but their methods aren't really sane, or would you jump in a life/death situation into trouble like one of them?
Call Nishi a coward all you want but in my opinion he is the only one who is sane and doesn't want to take to much risk.

Nishi doesn't tell everyone what he knows?
I think he doesn't tell them not because he is sadistic but because he (again) doesn't want to take to much risk. Nishi was in gantz for one whole year so he saw all the fucked up idiots that ended up in there...
If you tell people like the Bikers or the Rapists everything you know, what reason do they have to not kill you after you told them?
If we learned something while reading gantz it has to be that you can't trust anyone inside of gantz. Maybe Nishi once trusted people but a situation like the Tae Mission happened and he understood that he can't trust anyone because they could turn against him.
Information is in gantz like power, if nishi wouldn't have infos he Kurono would have never even thought about reviving him.
And Nishi told the people the important infos they needed to know after they proved that they are worth it (he told them that their heads will explode if they talk about gantz, and thatthey are copys)

So... maybe it is cowardice but it is at least smart cowardice.

Hopefully you people get my point and don't think I'm an insane Nishi fanboys.

[georgemarvin]

Yeah, the guy most likely to survive a war, battle after battle, isn't the guy who runs in yelling. In fact, he's the guy who dies during his first mission. The veterans won't tell him not to; he's the one who shows them where the enemy is hiding. While he's dying, they are noting the directions where the bullets are coming from. The veterans survive mission after mission because they know what to expect, and they don't get close to those rookies who are going to die in a few days. They aren't going to tell them anything or let them into their circle of friends until they have been through a few missions and look like a survivor.

[JetPistol]

its been a while since i read stage 1
but im almost 100% nishi never cleared
if he had, he would of never cried like a bitch during phase one
when he was thinking in his mind how he wouldn't be able to see him mom again
something like "i was so close"
if he honestly was able to clear 100 points
he would of been long gone before kei came

[Masterchief]

lol for some reason I find it funny when people use that as an example, would you just sit there while your eyes,ears and mouth were bleeding?

Secondly nishi is the most human character in terms of fighting strategy in my opinion, he doesnt have much strength so he uses his smarts. He is one of few characters who actually use stealth, and there is nothing wrong with it. If I were in gantz i would probably use the same tactics he used, stealth and go around killing.

You also have to remember that nishi was stuck with people who had never played the game before for who knows how long. Kinda hard to take out all the aliens in one mission and the boss by yourself aint it. The reason he didnt clear is prob because he waited for time to run out on several missions.

btw i called the tengu kill I guess :blink

[MissingLimb]

My opinion on Nishi:
Personally, I don't like Nishi, but it has nothing to do with him being a coward (he's not). It's because he's arrogant. Not to say he doesn't have good reason to be. He's obviously the smartest character Gantz has seen. He's a weak middle schooler and he knows it (even with the suit he's not that impressive), but he's proven he can make up for it with sheer brainpower. I can't knock that.

I'm also pretty sure I've figured out what kind of person he is in real life. Nishi's the kid who's smarter than everyone, knows it, and flaunts it. People don't like that, so he got picked on everyday. But since he's arrogant, he couldn't see it was his own fault and blamed everyone else. IMO thats where all his hatred towards bikers, strength, aliens, and people in general comes from.

[Masterchief]

yea I pretty much agree with that, nishi does seem smarter then most people also I wonder if he wears his suit outside gantz or not.(I mean school wise so dont point me to the train fight)

[nouvomx]

Nishi is a sadistic bastard who uses people as his pawns, :D

and that 75 points was from the almost dead tengu, remember the lag they where talking about? it wasn't from knob, it was from nishi,

If he were so smart, he would have cleared the stage, killing every alien he can get, he is just like a scavenger, taking points from the almost dead aliens

[Masterchief]

well if you check the first two pages yea I pointed out that he did kill tengu, although originally it was from george. also i dont think he ment to kill steal tengu, if knob coulda finished it im sure nishi woulda let him finish it. Knob was screwed though, nishi saved his life assuming he is alive. also its not very smart to just go out and try to kill everyone.

[MissingLimb]

I agree with chief. In the first mission Nishi was gonna give Kei his kill on onion. He can be cruel, but for some reason he doesn't steal kills.

[Nomiya]

His appearance has changed a lot.


http://i33.tinypic.com/nvp8wz.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/wjbeh1.jpg


I like the first design, now he look older and not so disturbing and psychopatic like in the old days. However he still being Nishi and i love him.

[warbandit66]

I think that his change in appearance is down to a combination of maturity and an improvement in art style, although I have to agree with you, in the earlier pics he looked like a real little bastard.

[nouvomx]

maybe its adolescence or he got laid or something? :D

[Masterchief]

what are you saying he looks badass in the second design, and theoretically he should not have aged while dead.

[MissingLimb]

Second design is my fav. I think it just shows Oku's progress as an artist.
His new personality does seem to match the new look though. He's a lot more calm and collected than he used to be. Just more likable in general.

[Masterchief]

yea i think he is more likable, but i cant decide that since I was always a nishi fan. I guess the idea of him ks'ing the tengu kill is kinda against him, i still stay it doesnt count as a ks if knob couldnt finish it off.

[warbandit66]

I actually prefer his earlier character design, for me it carries more of his character, this one is a little more generic.

[GAT-X252]

Agreed...he doesn't look like a kid anymore...

[georgemarvin]

The technology that Oku uses, as well as his artistic style, have both changed subtly over the course of the manga. Nishi's current look fits perfectly with the rest of the characters. Like any other comic book, there will be people who will like one style better; with Marvel, the comparison is often Jack Kirby vs. Todd Mcfarlane. They are both great; if they weren't, there would be no debate. In this case, the debate is early Oku vs. current Oku; I'm sure the artist himself will believe that he has improved over the years, but it's like Picasso or Van Gogh; lots of people believe their best work was their earliest pieces.

On the other hand, Nishi's current attitude is consistent with his attitude during the early missions. Just like with the onion alien, he didn't "kill steal"; Knob-yan was dying. There is no way he could finish off the Tengu. The others were just standing around laughing and calling him names. Nishi didn't kill the Tengu just to save his life, but he didn't take the kill from him, either. It's true that the others could have joined the fight, but they hadn't. That meant that the Tengu was fair game. Why should he wait for the Tengu to kill what appeared to be a strong warrior, just to give the kill to the people who were laughing at him while he died?
Just because the Osakans told the Tokyo team to butt out didn't mean that they got exclusive rights to the hunt. Gantz sent both teams in because it thought they would both need to work together to eliminate something as strong as Nurarihyon. Since both teams were sent in, the Tokyo team had the same rights to the hunt as the Osaka team did. They just wimped out because the Osaka team seemed stronger.
Nishi thinks of knowledge as power, the same as he did in the beginning. He still just tells people the minimum that they need to know. The only one he has opened up to at all was Izumi, whose memory was like swiss cheese, but who had apparently once been Nishi's friend.
Nishi still thinks that Katou gives out way too much information before the hunts, and that it's every man for himself, that it isn't a team sport. He still doesn't like Katou.

On the other hand, Nishi does give people a lot of necessary information. He told the people in the first mission that they needed to hunt the alien, not to leave the area, etc.; He told the survivors of the first mission not to talk about it or their heads would explode. He showed them that the suits can turn invisible. He told them how he believed that Gantz collected them. He told them that they might find their originals when they went home because Gantz doesn't always wait till somebody dies before making a copy. That's perfectly consistent with him warning the current team that Izumi was going to be attacked.
Nishi wants the high score, he wants to finish the mission not only without dying, but without getting hurt, probably because of the memory loss after players get hurt. He wants to be able to gloat over the fact that he knows more than everybody else. He enjoys that sense of power.
The old Nishi used the same tactics as he did during the fight in the subway and against Nurarihyon; he's a stealther. It's the most effective tactic. Izumi used stealth to his advantage, as well. So did Oka. Even with Oka's weaponry advantages, the girls mentioned that Oka generally just skulks around in his stealth suit till the hunt is almost over. Oka himself said that he was thru with the Nurarihyon fight because it was dangerous. Izumi likes to fight, but he uses stealth nearly every time. It is one of the biggest advantages that the suits have; you would think that even the numbskulls on the current team would figure out how to use it.

On a new note: Did anybody else notice that Nishi didn't bother to join in the fight against the vampires while they were fighting the humans, but he was ready to try to kill HS when he walked over to the ball? Once he realized that the vampire didn't know how to hurt Gantz, he lowered his weapon. But he would have had no problem trying to kill HS if he had managed to do any damage.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/238/33/
Gantz might have a vulnerability or two that Nishi knows about, or he wouldn't have bothered holding a gun on HS and risking a fight with him in close quarters. After all, HS was holding his own against Katou, Kaze, Reika, Cherry AND Sakata all combined just seconds before. Nishi cares a lot more about Gantz than most people realize, or he wouldn't have risked his life to protect it.

[Nomiya]

http://i35.tinypic.com/6xzqd4.jpg

His appearance has changed, but his lovely personality still intact, that's right.

Personaly i love both designs, but the first one was more autentic, like warbandit66 said the new one it's a little bit generic, but it's cool too.

it's a pleasure read your texts georgemarvin.

[nouvomx]

On a new note: Did anybody else notice that Nishi didn't bother to join in the fight against the vampires while they were fighting the humans, but he was ready to try to kill HS when he walked over to the ball? Once he realized that the vampire didn't know how to hurt Gantz, he lowered his weapon. But he would have had no problem trying to kill HS if he had managed to do any damage.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/238/33/
Gantz might have a vulnerability or two that Nishi knows about, or he wouldn't have bothered holding a gun on HS and risking a fight with him in close quarters. After all, HS was holding his own against Katou, Kaze, Reika, Cherry AND Sakata all combined just seconds before. Nishi cares a lot more about Gantz than most people realize, or he wouldn't have risked his life to protect it.

he was just a pussy, imho

[Masterchief]

dunna maybe he just felt it wasnt his buisness, or maybe he just had confidence in izumi. if he is such a pussy would he have tried to kill the 100 pointer he just saw take out 2 guys that each cleared 3 times?

[Unholy]

dunna maybe he just felt it wasnt his buisness, or maybe he just had confidence in izumi. if he is such a pussy would he have tried to kill the 100 pointer he just saw take out 2 guys that each cleared 3 times?

Yeah on steath mode while nury was busy attacking katou.People like nishi and due to that cant accept he is a coward.Im gonna post this so the nishi fans cant stop defending him.

Check this out:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/20/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/02/
Nishis answer:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/04/
Nishi himself admits that he uses people as bait, btw point me a single time he ever engaged an enemie that wasent being previously attacked by someone, oh yeah u can count the tanaka alien a weak ass 5 pointer that killed nishi.Now for gods sake stop arguing about this, u can like nishi for any reason, u can believe what he does is smart or that it is what u would do if u were in gantz but dont argue about him not being a cowards because he is.

[Masterchief]

lol well what else are you supposed to talk about in the nishi thread? also can you really blame him for using people as cannon fodder? he's been through enough hunts on his own to know that most of the time most people that end up in gantz are useless when it comes to hunting. He also has no way of telling how strong an alien is. Attacking nuri can be seen as both cowardly and kind, he couldve been helping katou. Lets face it katou got his ass saved this arc twice once by nishi and the other by hs.

and yes you can argue that I am a nishi fan so obviously i would defend him.

[georgemarvin]

Yeah on steath mode while nury was busy attacking katou.People like nishi and due to that cant accept he is a coward.Im gonna post this so the nishi fans cant stop defending him.

Nishi didn't attack Nuri or Tengu, or for that matter, the onion alien, until the people who were fighting them had lost the battle. When he attacked Tengu, Knob-yan was almost dead. When he attacked Nuri, Katou was about to end up with the same fate as George. He let the newbies get the kill with the little onion alien, and he tried to get Kei to take the kill and the points with the big one.


Nishi himself admits that he uses people as bait
More like brags about it. Nishi also lies about things to make himself look bigger. He seems to have an inferiority complex.

Yes, Nishi uses the cannon fodder as ... cannon fodder. Same as every general in every army since there was such a thing as war.

But think about it: The truth is, most of the people that Gantz brings to the room aren't exactly the folks you would want to move in next door. Would you tell the yakuza who had just tried to rape a girl everything that you know about a super suit and very powerful weaponry? How about the biker thugs who tried to kill Nishi just for the fun of it? The rapist thugs? Only if you're a suicidal idiot with an IQ in the single digits. A huge percent of the newbs would be more likely to kill you than to help if you told them how to use the suits and guns.

Nishi isn't a coward just because he doesn't tell potential enemies how to kill him. Nishi has probably learned not to trust anybody because he has been double-crossed too many times by people that he trusted and told some of Gantz' secrets to.

He did tell the survivors of the first mission quite a bit of useful info, though. If you will look back just before the Tanaka mission, he hinted to Kei that there was a way for him to survive the mission without a suit; when he said "have fun dying"; he was having a little cruel fun, but he was about to tell Kei how to live. He just wanted to watch him grovel and beg a little first. That would fit Nishi's thirst for power perfectly. Unfortunately for Kei, the biker shot Nishi before he could play out his joke and get Kei to beg and plead for his life. He wouldn't have mentioned it unless he wanted to show it to Kei, though. We know now that Nishi was hinting about the armory room; a bike and a katana would have boosted Kei's chances by a lot.

So he did tell the ones who had earned a little trust at least part of what they needed to know. And it wouldn't matter what anybody told most of the rest of them; the grandmother and toddler didn't benefit much from Katou's advice. No matter how many times Kei and Katou told the newbs not to leave the area, there are always a few who did it anyway. Very few of the newbs wear the suits, no matter what they are told. And most of them are going to die no matter what. Nishi would have learned a long ago not to form friendships with people who are going to die within a few days.


btw point me a single time he ever engaged an enemie that wasent being previously attacked by someone, oh yeah u can count the tanaka alien a weak ass 5 pointer that killed nishi.

When Nishi captured the onion father, Kei was in no condition to continue the fight. Nishi didn't kill steal; in fact, he tried to get Kei to take the points. He let Kei have all of the credit, too; he didn't mention that he had captured it when Katou asked Kei how he had captured the alien.

He engaged and killed the thug, who had just shot him. Nobody bothered to stop the thug; they just stood around and watched him while he shot Nishi. The thug didn't know that a suit can take a couple of hits before it breaks, and just planned to kill Nishi for the fun of it.

Lest we forget, Nishi asked for help against the weak Tanaka AFTER his suit blew out. It was already damaged when the thug shot him, and only partially functional. Normally, a suit dies after something hits it; that's the only case in the manga of a suit dying for no apparent reason; he had just hit the Tanaka and it went flying into a wall. It looked like he would have won the fight handily, even without a weapon; the Tanaka was no match for him if the suit had worked. I theorized that one of the thugs must have shot him in the back; suits don't just quit working unless they get hit by something.

When the vampires attacked on the bus, Nishi and Izumi hit them at the same time; the one Nishi sliced in half fell at the same time as the one that Izumi cut. When it showed them, it looked like Nishi's sword was already pointed at the ground; he actually hit faster than Izumi.

The only other battle Nishi was in was the Nuri hunt; it could be argued that in both occasions, he saved somebody's life.

[Masterchief]

was it really random dieing? he got hit twice before the mission then again by the tanaka alien.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-37-page-8.html
also this couloda been a hit
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-37-page-10.html

it still stands though nishi without the suit is weak, smart but weak. unlike people like kaze he has to rely on the suit to survive.

also george i dont remember nishi having a sword during the subway scence he did get one though.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-230-page-10.html

[Unholy]

When Nishi captured the onion father, Kei was in no condition to continue the fight. Nishi didn't kill steal; in fact, he tried to get Kei to take the points. He let Kei have all of the credit, too; he didn't mention that he had captured it when Katou asked Kei how he had captured the alien.


Man could u try making ur posts a little shorter, it gets pretty tiring to read such long posts.Anyway ur memory is failing u pretty badly or u are going delusional, check the onion fight again:
here u can see kurono breaking the aliens arm
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/16/17/
kurono beating him up:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/17/06/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/17/07/
onion alien begging:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/17/09/
now nishi steps in and shots down a defeated alien
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/17/10/
Hope u understand now, nishi wasent saving anyone here, he was gonna give the points to kurono because kurono was the one to defeat the guy.



He engaged and killed the thug, who had just shot him. Nobody bothered to stop the thug; they just stood around and watched him while he shot Nishi. The thug didn't know that a suit can take a couple of hits before it breaks, and just planned to kill Nishi for the fun of it.

God please read the manga again, everything happened pretty fast no one had time to actually stop the guy from shooting most of them were busy with other discussions, and the thug that used the weapon didnt even know what the hell it was, all the thugs werent believing katou (only 1 ended using the suit after everything katou said) they were point the guns at their own friends prolly because they believe that those were toys.
see it here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/32/16/
the guy ends up shooting nishi by mistake:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/32/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/32/18/
Nishi goes and kills the guy.


Lest we forget, Nishi asked for help against the weak Tanaka AFTER his suit blew out. It was already damaged when the thug shot him, and only partially functional.

I think the guy above me already answered that one, but if u wanna defend nishi find a better excuse, during the tae hunt izumi was hit quite a few times by the x-gun and his suit didnt go bad, that just mean the x-gun cant do all that much damage to the suit, nishi had a suit with almost perfect condictions and he still lost to a 5 pointer, this fight is pretty much proof for me that he sucks at any sort of direct contact agains the enemie (someone that was fighting on gantz for a year would have no problem taking down a 5 pointer while the suit was working).If he survived this long without fighting the targets direct it was because of his steath tactics.



Nishi didn't attack Nuri or Tengu, or for that matter, the onion alien, until the people who were fighting them had lost the battle. When he attacked Tengu, Knob-yan was almost dead. When he attacked Nuri, Katou was about to end up with the same fate as George.

Nishi does not attack to save anyone, indead he did end up saving them both but those werent his intencions he just saw a chance to earn points without any risk and took it if he saved 2 people while doing so great, but if both of them died it would still be all good for him.

[georgemarvin]

You're right, looks like Nishi used a pistol on the subway. It had been a while since I read it; my memory isn't what it used to be. The point stands, though; they were in sync and each killed a vampire at the same time. They both went invisible and came out of invisibility mode at the same time, too. Like two veterans who have done the same thing countless times before.

It does show that Nishi doesn't just hide behind other players. Notice that Nishi and Izumi's actions are in synch when the vampires see them through their contacts. It looked like they had worked together so often that they knew each other's actions perfectly. Perfect teamwork from two guys who are supposedly just out for themselves.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/07/

Nishi was on the attack, not running and hiding like a coward would. After the initial fight, they both agreed that the vampires were Izumi's problem, and Nishi laid down in the middle of the aisle and fluffed up a pillow while Izumi took care of the rest of the vampires by cutting the bus in half. Strange behavior for a coward. It didn't look like he had any doubt about the outcome of the fight.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-230-page-4.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-230-page-11.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-230-page-12.html

The vampire that Nishi killed was falling at the same time as the one that Izumi sliced.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/230/08/


was it really random dieing? he got hit twice before the mission then again by the tanaka alien.

I think the guy above me already answered that one, but if u wanna defend nishi find a better excuse, during the tae hunt izumi was hit quite a few times by the x-gun and his suit didnt go bad, that just mean the x-gun cant do all that much damage to the suit, nishi had a suit with almost perfect condictions and he still lost to a 5 pointer, this fight is pretty much proof for me that he sucks at any sort of direct contact agains the enemie (someone that was fighting on gantz for a year would have no problem taking down a 5 pointer while the suit was working).If he survived this long without fighting the targets direct it was because of his steath tactics.


That is sort of my point; the suits don't generally fail that easily. Nishi got hit twice before the mission started, then by one weak Tanaka's sonics. It failed a minute after that, while he was just standing there. Five of the Tanakas hit Katou point-blank with the same screams, and it had no effect on his suit. The Tanakas' screams were evidently an extremely low-level attack.

He did get hit on page 8. I thought page 10 wasn't a hit, since it was yelling the words to a song instead of a sonic scream. The suits generally fail at the time they are hit, not a minute later, while the wearer is just standing there after he has just hit an enemy and sent it flying.

Notice the oddities. After he hits the Tanaka, his suit isn't leaking. He's just standing there, then there is a noise then his suit starts leaking.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-37-page-15.html

On the next page, he hears the noise three more times as it keeps leaking.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-37-page-16.html

His back is to the thugs; he has just killed one of their friends. The suits just quit; they don't make a noise when they die. The thugs all have the means, motive and opportunity. They would do something like that just for fun, but now they have the extra incentive of getting a little revenge. After the suit died, they were having too much fun watching him run and ask for help to think about finishing him off themselves. As soon as the Tanaka blew out his eyes and ears, they suddenly decided to go home. Maybe the Tanaka had a little help?


Man could u try making ur posts a little shorter, it gets pretty tiring to read such long posts.Anyway ur memory is failing u pretty badly or u are going delusional, check the onion fight again:
I stand by my statement: Kei was kneeling over Katou. The onion alien was standing over him begging for forgiveness. Neither Kei nor the onion alien was in any condition to continue the fight. Kei didn't know about the timer or the penalties for failing; he had no intention of finishing off the onion father. If Nishi hadn't captured it, he would have let it go. Nishi didn't care about the points; he offered them to Kei. He also let Kei take the credit for the kill when they were back in the room.


Nishi does not attack to save anyone, indead he did end up saving them both but those werent his intencions he just saw a chance to earn points without any risk and took it if he saved 2 people while doing so great, but if both of them died it would still be all good for him.
I never said that the little bastard killed the Tengu and tried to take out Nuri out of the goodness of his heart; he's after the high score. He just happened to save them in the process. The point was that he wasn't kill stealing in either case. He also wasn't kill stealing against the onion father. In all three cases, the fight was over and the Gantz member had lost. In the case of the first mission, you could say that both the onion alien and Kei had just quit the fight, but you must admit that it wasn't a kill steal; Kei was in no condition to continue the fight. Katou had just told him that it was his fault. Kei had his back to the alien, and he was kneeling over Katou. The onion alien was towering over them both. From Nishi's perspective, there was a big alien roaring over Kei, who was kneeling on the ground with his back to it; if you ran up and saw that scene, you would assume that Kei was about to die. He "saved" Kei from the onion alien, even though it was through with the fight and wouldn't have hurt Kei.

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/17/10/

[Unholy]

Notice the oddities. After he hits the Tanaka, his suit isn't leaking. He's just standing there, then there is a noise then his suit starts leaking.


Well see this one here:
katou going after the tanaka alien:
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/44/17/
katous suit going bad, while the tanaka aliens were quite far behind
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/44/18/

My guess would be that the suit could also break if u overuse it, like if u abuse too much of its power eventually it would have to go, the same stuff that protects u is what makes u stronger (after all when the suit goes bad u loose all the streght) whoever u prolly can use the streght alot more than the defense, but if u get hit alot and than use the streght the suit will go bad because of excessive use or something.Anyway even if this is wrong the fact stands that nishi had a working suit, dosent matter if it wasent a 100% one it was working and he was a veteran we have seen people survive with, he should not have lost to something as weak as a 5 pointer even if his suit was a bit busted.Nishi is a weak fighter and he knows it thats why to improve his chances of surviving he came up with the steath tactics that make up for his lack of fighting skills.

[Masterchief]

yea the suit does seem to have a battery, also it depends where you can get hit. fingers could take the suits power out if they hit in the right place(i.e under the neck). also the radar he uses to switch weapons died out long before the suit. Assuming he can make the weapons appear and dissapear at his will it would be a big dissadvantage.

The fact stands though with the tengu and nuri it wouldnt count as a kill steal, knob and katou both couldnt fight anylonger. You can argue about the onion alien but he offered the points to kei, I personally think nishi has a strong belief in rules and plays the game fairly. and yes nishi is a weak fighter and he shouldnt have lost to the tanaka alien and probably wouldnt if he had a weapon. but since he didnt have his weapon switcher he had no weapon available to him at that time, and since his suit was dead cant really expect him to kill it bare handed can ya?

[Showatt]

Nishi isn't a coward, he just stealth a lot. but he's really sad though, and quite a great deal of time he ends up getting killed. if I was him, I wouldve drop my smart ass attitude and concentrating on surviving...

He made it sounds really big coming to the room for an entire year, he's also got the brain, but hell he sure aint a brawl like izumi or kaze. Also hates the fact that he expect people to help him after showing everyone that he doesn't give a shit about em.

[georgemarvin]

Anyway even if this is wrong the fact stands that nishi had a working suit, dosent matter if it wasent a 100% one it was working and he was a veteran we have seen people survive with, he should not have lost to something as weak as a 5 pointer even if his suit was a bit busted.

Even without a weapon and his controller shot so that he couldn't call up another one, Nishi was still winning the fight until his suit died.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-37-page-14.html

With his suit dead, his controller dead and no weapons, Nishi was suddenly just a regular kid. It wouldn't be cowardly to ask for help in a situation like that.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-38-page-4.html


Nishi is a weak fighter and he knows it thats why to improve his chances of surviving he came up with the steath tactics that make up for his lack of fighting skills.
That's halfway right. Nishi isn't very strong like Kaze or fast like Kei. He doesn't have Izumi or HS's combination of mad skills. Therefore, he doesn't try to use his muscles. He's extremely smart; he uses his brain instead of brawn, and part of that is using the suit's stealth capabilities. But using stealth tactics doesn't make him a coward. Nishi is actually a strong fighter because his stealth tactics can be used to infiltrate the enemy's stronghold and take out even the strongest boss. He is capable of taking out the 70 to 100 point bosses while seldom getting a scratch, while Kaze has trouble with the little 10 pointers. He gets hurt badly every round. Izumi and Oka both used stealth but nobody calls them cowards. For that matter, Kei used it to his advantage in the Tae mission.

Not many of us are the perfect physical specimens that Kaze, Katou, Izumi, HS and Sei are. If we tried to fight like they do, we would die during our first mission. Only a complete idiot would try to play a strategy designed to maximize his own weaknesses; we all use a strategy to take advantage of our strengths. If I was a 6'6, 250 pound karate expert without an ounce of fat and an IQ of 65, I wouldn't try to win by playing mind games; if I was a 5'3, overweight computer expert, I wouldn't try to karate chop my way to 100 points.

[Unholy]

What makes nishi a coward is the way he uses the steath, not steath itself, i would be fine with him if he went on steath alone killing stuff, or while in steath fight the aliens like oka did with the mino, whoever he is different he goes on steath and follows the regular gantzers waiting for an alien to drop his guard down while fighting/killing the regular gantzer when the alien drop his guard he attacks, his use of others peoples lifes is what makes him such a coward to me.Anyway when fighting the takana alien when he felt on the river he wanted to go steath mode again and run like he always does but couldnt do it, he had a weapon at that time but lost during the fight because his fighting skills sucks, after losing the weapon his suit was still working he could have done like katou and grabed the alien and killed it but he did not, the suits give u an amazing strght regardless of if u are a normal weak person even little takeshi could kick ass, so that explanantion is bullshit.Kei always sucked at sports and such but he could do alot with the suits power.

[georgemarvin]

What makes nishi a coward is the way he uses the steath, not steath itself, i would be fine with him if he went on steath alone killing stuff, or while in steath fight the aliens like oka did with the mino, whoever he is different he goes on steath and follows the regular gantzers waiting for an alien to drop his guard down while fighting/killing the regular gantzer when the alien drop his guard he attacks, his use of others peoples lifes is what makes him such a coward to me.
Those tactics are vicious, selfish, callous, cruel, perverted and generally used by a dirty, rotten scoundrel. But they aren't cowardly. A coward runs from a fight; Nishi loves the fight. His biggest thrill is seeing the aliens die. His second biggest is seeing the Gantz rookies die. He doesn't have a lot of physical power like Kaze, Izumi and Katou. So he uses what he has: His intelligence.


Anyway when fighting the takana alien when he felt on the river he wanted to go steath mode again and run like he always does but couldnt do it, he had a weapon at that time but lost during the fight because his fighting skills sucks
Well, first, he jumped in the river. At the time, his suit could cycle through weapons and it appeared that he didn't want to kill the Tanaka. Therefore, he was probably trying to call up the capture gun, but he had left it on the floor in his hurry to get out before the mission began; he told Gantz to send him right after he shot the thug. He could have shot the Tanaka from stealth at any time before he stepped on the baby Tanaka. He could have shot it after it saw him, instead of jumping in the river. He could have shot it when it jumped down after him; there would have been no way for it to maneuver out of his way then. But instead, he kept trying to use the controller, then warned it before he shot at it with the pistol the first time.


run like he always does
Umm...I've never seen Nishi run from a fight except that one occasion, when he had no suit and no gun, and making a run for it was the only option he had left. He captured the Onion alien, killed the punk, was fighting the Tanaka when his suit died, killed one of the vampires on the subway then laid down in the middle of the aisle and got ready to take a nap while Izumi finished off the others on the subway, and was firing the H-gun at Nuri when it blew off his arm.
When he jumped in the river during the Tanaka fight, it is debatable whether he was planning to re-stealth and hide, or if he was buying time to get the controller to pull up the Y-gun. The Tanaka was an easy target when it jumped down to follow him; if he planned to kill it, he would have shot it while it was as easy as shooting a fish in a barrel.


he could have done like katou and grabed the alien and killed it but he did not,
He was doing ok in the fight; he had just hit it and it went flying into a wall when his suit broke. Without a suit, he did ask the rest for help and start running; that was all he could do, when he had no suit and no gun. Kei, Katou and all the rest except Kaze would have run in the same situation. Kaze has enormous strength even without a suit, but the rest of them would have been dead meat if they stood and fought empty-handed. Katou squeezed the alien to death in a fully functional suit; without a working suit, he would have been just as dead as Nishi.


the suits give u an amazing strght regardless of if u are a normal weak person even little takeshi could kick ass, so that explanantion is bullshit.Kei always sucked at sports and such but he could do alot with the suits power
The suit does amplify the person's strength greatly. However, it evidently amplifies by a percent of the person's own strength; Kaze's suit makes him MUCH stronger than Nishi's or Takeshi's. While the vampires could actually reach the old man and break the suit at the neck, and Nuri was able to take George and Kuwabara apart, then swallow Katou, Kaze could go blow for blow with Nurarihyon, the Oni and the stone alien. Even with a fully functional suit, Nishi probably couldn't have mustered up enough strength to squeeze the Tanaka to death. Without a weapon, he would have been limited to just hitting it until it died. Which was exactly what he was doing.

[Unholy]

Well, first, he jumped in the river. At the time, his suit could cycle through weapons and it appeared that he didn't want to kill the Tanaka. Therefore, he was probably trying to call up the capture gun, but he had left it on the floor in his hurry to get out before the mission began; he told Gantz to send him right after he shot the thug. He could have shot the Tanaka from stealth at any time before he stepped on the baby Tanaka. He could have shot it after it saw him, instead of jumping in the river. He could have shot it when it jumped down after him; there would have been no way for it to maneuver out of his way then. But instead, he kept trying to use the controller, then warned it before he shot at it with the pistol the first time.

Man u dont seem to see how nishi works... really he had no problem blowing up the tengu and nury but he didnt want to harm poor little tanaka alien come on... He tried to use steath and run check that mission again, he used the control but the water + the blown before didnt let he go on steath for whatever reason.He wasent warning the tanaka alien lol are crazy? first u say nishi loves to see the aliens die and then u tell me he pitys them? He was just reasuring himself, like when u gonna try something hard and u keep saing stuff like i can do this and such.Nishis tatic is to never attack a target alone, he could also have killed the onion alien at any time he was there the whole time but he choose not to, he always waits for the "perfect chance" and he was going to do the same with the tanaka alien but he fucked it up when he steped on the little guy.Btw when i said nishi could have killed him even after losing the weapon i meant before his suit went bad, of course any human without a weapon and suit is helpless agains the aliens but nishi had both in the start of the fight and still lost to a 5 pointer.

[georgemarvin]

He wasent warning the tanaka alien lol are crazy?
The Tanakas were a different type of alien from Nuri and Tengu. Notice that the Tanakas bought candy from the local shops, and were peaceful citizens until the beginning of the hunt. Nishi is a veteran of at least 30 missions; he may very well have been on hunts against Tanakas before. Notice as well that he knew that Nuri had to be completely smashed. It's a matter of experience. He may have had pity for some types of aliens, but not others. Kind of like the difference between capturing a bunny rabbit vs. a rattlesnake. Not all of the aliens are evil. In fact, some of them are just trying to fit in, and some are even sympathetic, like the onion father who was only getting vengeance for his dead son.
Nishi does have a sadistic streak, but that doesn't mean that he wants to see everything die. He isn't exactly a homicidal maniac. He is more like the people who stop and look at a train wreck. He enjoys killing aliens, but that doesn't mean he won't ever help out a few of the more pitiful ones. After all, he could have blown the onion father to bits, but he captured it instead. He called the team to warn them that Izumi was in danger. He told Kei & Katou that they couldn't talk about Gantz or their heads would explode. He tried to help Kei at the end of the onion alien mission. He does have a little pity somewhere deep below that vicious exterior.


He was just reasuring himself, like when u gonna try something hard and u keep saing stuff like i can do this and such.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/37/06/
Looks more like a direct threat to me. After he curses his controller for not working, he isn't saying "I can do this". He's telling the Tanaka that he is going to kill it. The implication is that he would prefer for the Tanaka to give up; if it doesn't, he will have to kill it. Otherwise, he would have just shot it without any warning. Let me give you a real-life example: If I walked out of my house and saw somebody in the yard trying to steal my truck. I would yell "Stop or I'll shoot!". That wouldn't have anything to do with my own self-confidence. It would be just what I said: I would be ordering them to either stand right where they were or I would shoot them. I would prefer that they stopped; I wouldn't want to shoot them, but I would be willing to if necessary.


Btw when i said nishi could have killed him even after losing the weapon i meant before his suit went bad, of course any human without a weapon and suit is helpless agains the aliens but nishi had both in the start of the fight and still lost to a 5 pointer.
Before the suit went bad, Nishi WAS standing and fighting. His suit went bad after he hit the Tanaka. Consider the usual durability of the suits. They always go bad after getting hit, not after somebody uses them to hit an enemy. The Tanaka hadn't done any real damage to the suit; it was just one Tanaka, and it had hit him with one sonic blast. Katou's suit held up to five of them hitting him at once, then several other times where two or three of them would hit him with the sonic blasts before it went out.

In other words, the only reason that Nishi died was that either his suit malfunctioned for some unknown reason or the Tanaka had help; one of the thugs probably shot him in the back. Kei may have been right: it was just bad luck that his suit died for no apparent reason. But then again, it could have been murder.

[Kozar927]

Made it all spoiler just to be safe
After every ones done fighting host samurai (a fight in which Nishi had no part of) Host Samurai decides he needs to kill the man in the ball only when he moves to do this do we see Nishi draw a weapon? Why would he do that, do Nishi and gantz have more of a past then we no or something?


Heres the pic: http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/238/33/

merged

[Masterchief]

there is a nishi thread where this has already been discussed. Most likely I would assume that maybe he was scared HS would anger gantz and all their heads would blow off.

[georgemarvin]

Yeah, this really should have been posted in the Nishi thread, but np; I'll answer it again here.
When I originally asked about it in the Nishi thread, I speculated that Nishi loves Gantz and tolerates the rest of the team; he was afraid that HS would figure out a way to hurt Gantz. He lives for the hunt; if Gantz dies, Nishi's life is meaningless. On the other hand, he had no vested interest in protecting the rest of the Gantz team; he doesn't think of them as teammates; they are competitors. He is out for the high score; it's no skin off his back if a few of them die.

Remember that Gantz even lets Nishi give him a "wet willie" to get his attention. Gantz calls the little bastard "Mr. Nishi", or "Nishi-san" while he gives everybody else an absurd nickname. I don't think that the fact that Gantz gives Nishi more respect than anybody else is just coincidence. If there is any way to hurt Gantz, Nishi may be the one who actually knows it. He would be willing to fight to the death against HS to protect Gantz, even though he would have just watched the spectacle of HS tearing everybody else in the room to shreds. I would imagine if that had happened, he would have stealthed and shot HS in the back before he could finish them all off, though; the best time to catch HS off-guard would be after he was tired from dismantling Katou and Kaze.

Despite the fact that some people call Nishi a coward, it just doesn't add up. These are the known facts:
1. Nishi's website has a first entry 14 months before the last entry. The missions had always been every 12 days, regular as clockwork, until Gantz started skipping some after the Tanaka mission. If he made his first journal entry the very day he started, he was in AT LEAST 35 missions. And he probably did at least a few before he decided to start recording his adventures, and at least one after his last entry.

2. That means that if he averaged just 3 points per mission, he would have made 100 points. But we know that he had to average MUCH more than that; he said that it had been months since anybody else survived. He had been on at least the last 5 or 6 hunts, probably about the last dozen hunts, SOLO. He got the boss EVERY TIME. Remember that Gantz gives out SEVERE penalties if you fail. Kei had to complete the next mission AND get a minimum of 15 points after he failed just once. Repeated failures are NOT an option.

3. The average mission will total at least 100 points. Nishi has successfully completed at least 35 missions. His tactics are designed to get most of the points every time. After all, he said he kills the boss while it's busy with the newbs. That's the majority of the points for the mission. Therefore, he gets almost all of the points every mission he's on.

The truth is, it would be practically impossible for Nishi to have never cleared. It's likely that he cleared about as many times as Oka. His style of fighting isn't weapon-intensive like Oka's, though; we only saw him on two hunts against really low-level enemies; he can kill the toughest bosses with just a normal suit and a Y-gun; most hunters don't take an elephant gun to hunt rabbits. He may have had several big toys in storage before he got killed.

Since Gantz shows respect, and even a small amount of affection, for Nishi, and Nishi has been so successful for so long, Gantz may have shared a lot more secrets with Nishi than the few little items that Nishi has bothered to let other people know.

[Kozar927]

sorry bout the wrong posting place im new to manga helpers comming only from the boards of gamefaqs... yuck... were if you ever wanted to be herd you better damn well be ready to make a topic and bump it 900 times. Im starting to relize that here you keep threads alive for a long time and ppl keep up reading individual tread updates ill just need to get used to it.

[RuinX]

That's very interesting and hopefully in the next couple of chapters after the reunion and kei and perhaps some vampires wrecking shit up and a head blown off or two, we'll be back to a new mission more perilious than Nuriahyon and we'll see Mr.Nishi access the other doors after everyone is transported and having him last in the room and we'll see if its true or not about him having big guns and what not. Hopefully its true, and I don't believe that Takeshi has more strength than Nishi =).

[Masterchief]

omg who says takeshi has more strength then nishi? you are either a takeshi fan(major*) or a major anti-nishi

[Kozar927]

Alot of people seem to be anti Nishi, not me tho lol

[MissingLimb]

George.

I just gotta say, thanks for being the sole supporter of Nishism. I know I used to doubt you, but I'm impressed. Nishi has been hiding much more than meets the eye. I wouldn't be surprised if most of your predictions about him are true. That's all.

[georgemarvin]

I would have thought that this thread would be a hotbed of activity, considering Nishi's little revelation about the end of the world. Oh, well. Guess I'll start the discussion.

It looks like Nishi has been in contact with the veterans of the other teams all this time. He said that the consensus opinion is that it's going to be a nuclear war. He used the term "we" in all of his descriptions of what might happen.
That's why he guards all of his info like it's valuable. Because it is. The other teams probably trade info about what they have killed, the aliens' weaknesses, what rewards that they got for certain amounts of points, etc. for info that he has about his own missions.

We now know the reason for Nishi's cryptic remarks before the Tanaka mission: The people who have the strongest weapons and armor will have the best chance of living through the coming catastrophe. Nishi just wanted to get all of the points for himself every mission. Leaving other members alive would mean that they would be able to kill some of the aliens and take "his" points.

That also explains why Izumi would have left. He would rather not know about what they all evidently think will be the end of the world as we know it.

In the beginning, it now looks like Nishi didn't withhold info from the other team members out of malice. It was just that there were only going to be a few more missions before the catastrophe, and each mission only yields a limited number of points, and he wanted to get some of those uber rewards like the ones that Oka was using, so he had to get most of the points every mission. Competitors for the points would mean that he wouldn't get as many of those neat toys that would make it easier to survive the end game.

Nishi said that the majority opinion was that it was going to be a nuclear war. But that doesn't mean that it will be. He also said that an invincible army or somebody with an indestructible arsenal, depending on the translation, would take over the earth. The indestructible arsenal might even be the Gantz teams.

Nishi and the other veterans could even be planning world conquest in a post-nuclear apocalyptic world.

[Kozar927]

@george
I know were you stand on this argument, and maby we will never have the chance to find out whos right, but I really belive Nishi wanted to go free with his hundred points.

[Mr.Aaron]

Nishi and the other veterans could even be planning world conquest in a post-nuclear apocalyptic world.

Interesting. I didn't even think of this theory.

Maybe Gantz is trying to create a new world entirely?

I know there is tons of evidence that kills this theory, but there is always a maybe.

[SeaWo|f]

I was just re reading the first chapters of gantz because its been so damn long i couldnt remember much of the details from them and a few things struck me about nishi in those early days. The first being from the very beginning he saw something in kei, he helped him even before they transported, if you look carefully in chapter 4 after people took their suit boxes and weapons kei is watching nishi very closely. As nishi is getting ready he notices this and looks at him and pulls down his collar just a bit showing him he is wearing the suit.

Nishi may be a narcissistic, sadistic, bastard but i think he does see the value in having a team. He helped kei because he felt he had the right instincts to play the game well. Also in that mission i dont think he lied to the players about the prize money to keep them from leaving the game area and getting their heads blown up but rather so that he could use them in the game to first find the enemies and then show him the aliens capabilities. Its an extremely smart move IMO.

knowing what we now know about gantz and thinking about nishi s position in that room full of useless newbies. I can completely understand his actions, there is no point in trying to explain anything, these people arent going to believe you and to top it all of none of them look like they will be worth shit.. save one.

His tatics are cold and completely logical; this is a completely fuct life and death scenario not the place for misguided chivalresque ideals.

[Masterchief]

ya it is if gantz tells you anything its that apperaence can be decieveing, the onion alien coulda been nura for all nishi knew, he plays it smart and thats y he survived for so long the tanaka alien was just to build up keis plot armor >_>

[Quetz]

Interesting. I didn't even think of this theory.

Maybe Gantz is trying to create a new world entirely?

I know there is tons of evidence that kills this theory, but there is always a maybe.

This theory cannot be true if gantz is to be the protagonist of this story (which I think he is).

[georgemarvin]

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/28/12/
To everybody who says that Nishi wanted to go home, that one page says it all. Nishi has just killed a cat. Not only does it give him a boner, but he needs to kill something bigger. He wants to kill the three kids so badly that it sets off the Gantz warning in his head. He can't wait to get back in the room. It's the only place where he can kill sentient beings and not only get away with it, but actually be rewarded. He can even kill people if he does it in a way that doesn't break the rules. He just barely manages to contain himself enough that he doesn't go off hunting his fellow humans "out of season" and literally lose his head.

When Nishi died and went to Gantz, he went to his own personal version of heaven.

He's a natural born killer. The ultimate predator. He gets off on stalking his prey, sneaking up on it and tearing it to pieces. Seeing that look of fear as it's dying. He's really messed up. And that's why he'll never leave Gantz.

Gantz is Nishi's own personal god of war and destruction. Look at the fight with the vampires in the room. He could care less about whether the vampires tore the whole Gantz team apart. But he drew his pistol and held it on HS until he was sure that he couldn't harm Gantz. he was willing to fight HS to the death if he hurt Gantz, the only being in the universe that Nishi could relate to.

That's also why we don't know whether Nishi had the big rewards before he died. He gets off on stalking his prey, like a cat or a lion, sneaking up on it then tearing it to pieces. He loves watching things die, seeing the mutilated corpses. Just taking a mecha and BFG and smashing everything in his path wouldn't be satisfying. He LIVES for the thrill of the kill. The points are just a validation of his existence, a trinket from his beloved. And he does love Gantz.

In other words, Nishi is much more twisted than anybody but me thinks. One of these days, he's going to just completely lose it and kill half the people in the room.

[warbandit66]

After being reminded of Nishi's cat killing I'm convinced that he's killed people. People that kill animals for fun are usually supressing murderous urges that would otherwise result in them killing humans, the fact that he became sexualy aroused after killing the animal is probably an idicator that he was perhaps sexually abused as a child, if you've ever watched the anime adaptation of Gantz you'll notice that a character named Muroto Hajime introduced exsclusivly in the anime is rather similar to Nishi in the fact that he loves killing and seems to have a rapport of sorts with Gantz, he loves being in Gantz because of the power and protection it gives him against the people that hurt him in the past.

[SeaWo|f]

I wanted to point out that what happens in the anime has absolutely nothing to do with the manga. The anime script was not written by oku and it was not directed by him, so there is no point in discussing what nishi does in the anime. The anime is both the writer and directors interpretation of oku s manga.

BTW warbandit we know that he has indeed killed people, he did it just before the second mission in the manga with out hesitation. Also there is no link between sexual abuse and killing animals however it is know that many serial kills have killed animals when they were children.

[Mr.Aaron]

Is it just me, or does Nishi seem a lot less sadistic these days?

I'm hoping it shows his day to day life, within the next few chapters.

[georgemarvin]

No idea about any relation between abuse and homicidal tendencies among serial killers. I've never studied the subject, and college psych was like 3 decades ago. I wouldn't doubt that he may have even killed a clerk in the store he had stolen from when he died the first time. He is more of a villain than a hero, and always has been.

@Mr. Aaron: Yeah, Nishi hasn't exhibited as many really vicious traits lately. He didn't even kill the panda. We can be sure he was getting his kicks watching the rookies' heads explode and the Osaka team getting shredded from stealth mode, though. The little homicidal maniac probably got enough carnage from the Nuri hunt to last him for a few days before he got hurt.

Maybe dying mellowed the little sadistic serial killer out a little.

[warbandit66]

I wanted to point out that what happens in the anime has absolutely nothing to do with the manga. The anime script was not written by oku and it was not directed by him, so there is no point in discussing what nishi does in the anime. The anime is both the writer and directors interpretation of oku s manga.

BTW warbandit we know that he has indeed killed people, he did it just before the second mission in the manga with out hesitation. Also there is no link between sexual abuse and killing animals however it is know that many serial kills have killed animals when they were children.

I've heard somewhere that people that where abused as children develop unnatural sexual desires later on in life, such as such as sado machism, and I'm aware of the anime's insigficance to the plot of the manga, I was making a comparison, I am also aware that it's obvious that he's killed at least one person but I was not including that in my statement, I meant that he had probably killed people outside of Gantz.

[SeaWo|f]

You are right in that abuse as a child can lead to sexual dysfunction as an adult, that has been a much observed fact. What i was saying is that there hasnt bee a a link shown between sexual abuse as a child and murder which is what the wording in your original post implied.

Nishi may have mellowed out a bit because he is in there with teammates that can actually do something for themselves. I would imagine he would get pretty high strung after months of being the only one capable of doing anything in a mission... especially considering the punishments gantz put out to kei for failing once.

[staytough]

He is more of a villain than a hero, and always has been.

I would call that kind of character anti-hero but then again with his behaviour villain could be the better description.


He didn't even kill the panda.

He didn't kill the dog as well! I don't think he is killing animals who participate in Gantz.

btw did anyone notice that no animal ever went out of the area? Shouldn't they be the first ones to run away or are they somehow aware about the bombs in their brains...


oh, and this: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Jupiter/2367/

[GAT-X252]

Yeah...the dog also felt bad when he saw his 0 Score...

There is a french translation of that page.

[warbandit66]

I think that the animals are actually more likely to stay within the safety zone than the humans since animals can sense danger.

And nice find on the Nishi site.

[Zamamee]

Nishi is and always has been one of my favorite characters, made the anime so much better, even though he hasn't been shown much in the manga. I was glad when he was rez'd.

[Mr.Aaron]

He wasn't that great in the anime. The anime made his character look more pussy at his death. It did the same thing with Tetchan, transforming him into a softie.

[Masterchief]

i guess after 7 pages we've reached a somewhat conclusion?

[georgemarvin]

Nah. Nishi is sure to surprise us again. He's going to be a major character for the foreseeable future, which isn't very far with a maniac/genius like Oku at the wheel. But he knows a lot about what's going on, and the Gantz team needs to get some of that information. I would guess that Kei will show the rest of the team his website. They need any info they can get, and that's a good place to start. Besides, when they look at it, he might have updated it to include a description of the Nuri mission from his point of view. That might be interesting.

[Masterchief]

I wonder if there is a gantz command called command which tells you all commands(I lol'ed at that line). How else would nishi figure out something called katastrophe. Then again it would be interesting, if someone from another gantz team met nishi then they had convo's telling eachother hints.

[skitvitum]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this... Did anybody notice when Nishi was warning Sakurai about the attack on Izumi that in the last panel he was no longer Nishi, but looked exactly like Kei?

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/231/08/

Why was that so?

[Zamamee]

Skitvitum does it really matter?

I believe that Nishi is going to tell us something big about whats around the corner and soon. If there is an up comming chapter or two about his website and all the info and battles hes been on, well that would be awesome.

[georgemarvin]

Don't know if anyone mentioned this... Did anybody notice when Nishi was warning Sakurai about the attack on Izumi that in the last panel he was no longer Nishi, but looked exactly like Kei?
LOL It's only a continuation of the similarities between them that has been foreshadowed from the very first hunt. They are all just copies. Nishi gave Kei a clue about the suit before the onion mission began. He told Kei that they are just alike. The onion alien was towering over Kei, who was kneeling next to Katou when Nishi captured it, so from his viewpoint he saved Kei, which was totally against his nature. He even tried to get Kei to take the points for the mission. He said that there was another person who had been copied. When he was dying, he acted just like Kei did when he was injured in the Buddha mission. They both couldn't wait for the next Gantz mission to begin, Nishi before the Tanaka mission, Kei before Buddha. Kei showed the same disregard for human life during the dino mission that Nishi did during the Onion mission. Kei had started using stealth after the horsemen mission. Kei was well on his path to becoming just like Nishi before he met Tae. He still has a lot of the same characteristics. Kind of like the good twin and the evil twin.

Remember that, if somebody is killed in Gantz, they don't age during the interim between then and when they are rezzed.

I'm not making the crazy suggestion that Nishi might have been the other Gantz player who had been copied, and that Kei was his original. I'm just saying that there are a lot more similarities between them than you would think.

[Kozar927]

"Remember that, if somebody is killed in Gantz, they don't age during the interim between then and when they are rezzed."

Were does it say this? I thought maby the new art thing was Okus way of showing ageing perhaps... If your correct then their goes my theory >.<

[georgemarvin]

They come back exactly where they were when the "last save" happened. That means that nothing would change between then and when they are rezzed. Katou came back in the exact same position he was in, even holding the Y-gun, when he was rezzed. Gantz wouldn't have any reason to artificially age them when he brought them back. That's why Katou had to think about how old he was when Anzu asked him. While "he" was 17, time had passed while he was dead. That made him 18 by the calendar.
An example of the possibilities: Let's say that Nishi died when he was 12, and is a copy like kishimoto. Let's say that he was dead for 5 years before somebody he knew came into the room, saw that he was in the system and rezzed him, then he was in the room for another year. According to the calendar, he would be 18, but he would biologically just be 13. The original, on the other hand, would be 18 and fully grown, and would look much different than the kid Nishi does. Look at how much most kids change as they age.

[Masterchief]

plot-hole maybe? i always did wander. In kurono's case its perfectly normal I guess it jus doesnt make sense for nishi and katou.

[georgemarvin]

Yeah, the Gantz dead-people-storage system brings up a lot of possibilities. It's even possible that when they pull up the menu again, Izumi may be there, just like he was before he lost his memory and left Gantz the first time. Nishi might even be able to tell Gantz that he wants to rez himself; it's like a fax machine, no reason why there can't be an army of Nishis, or anybody else that gets 100 points several times. LOL

[kaliayev]

no reason why there can't be an army of Nishis

he'd get pissed off with himself faster than he does with anyone else (seriously, i can't imagine he likes putting up with anyone, especially when said individual has a similar, standoffish personality) and then shoot the other to maintain his position.

[mick69]

u want to know why he stayed alive for that long and got shit all points easy gantz gave he easy fights cuz he sucked
its all there when hes dieing and think they will be ported home after the one birdy guy dies the things sucked even big tits killed 1 or 2 of them and he though it was a big boss he must of been geting alot of easy stuff before hand like that 1st mission u can not say that would be at all hard if it happend to them now
gantz doesnt realy care about them but he doesnt send them into shit they can not handle

off subject but WTF why did mr goodie goodie only get 100points? he killed the 100pointer and some bigass one that was after the old farts and kid and some others 2 they seem to stuff up scoreing alot if u ask me

[Revilenigma]

where do i start...
1. I very much doubt that Nishi has cleared multiple times, for one I doubt he would be crying(when he was dying) about how he was so close to leaving the room.
2. My guess about how he survived the 30 mission is that he got luckly, he learned that if he kept in the shadows he would have a chance to survive.
3. I agree with you that nishi isnt a bad person but hes just a little fucked in the head for having to through 30 missions.
4. I dont remember Nishi and Izumi talking about a mission that killed almost everyone unless maybe your talking about the Jeans Aliens

[Masterchief]

I doubt he survived 30 missions without clearing. Gantz would most likely not let him get 0 points twice

[georgemarvin]

3. I agree with you that nishi isnt a bad person but hes just a little fucked in the head for having to through 30 missions.
Somebody said Nishi isn't a bad person? That's one that anybody would have a REALLY hard time defending. He's Ted Bundy, Jack the Ripper, and Charles Manson all rolled into one. We're talking about a kid who gets sexually aroused by killing animals, and wants to kill other people so badly that it makes the Gantz warning go off; he can barely control his homicidal tendencies enough that Gantz doesn't kill him for hunting out of season.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/28/12/

He lives for the hunt; watching people and other sentient beings die is his very reason for living.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/18/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/21/04/

And he loves Gantz enough that he was wiling to take on HS one-on-one when he thought HS might manage to hurt Gantz, even though he didn't bother to lift a finger when HS was fighting the other Gantz team members. Gantz is his hero, his own personal God.
http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/238/33/

Don't get me wrong. Nishi does have a little scrap of humanity; he might help somebody he likes, like Kei and Izumi, but he thinks of the rest of the team as prey. If one of them gets in his way, he will kill them without thinking twice. For that matter, he might kill them just for fun. He doesn't even bother to hide the fact that he is a natural born killer, either. Out of all of the characters that have come and gone in Gantz, he would be the one I would be the most afraid of meeting in a dark alley.
I can see Nishi walking down alleys with a knife, just looking for somebody to kill. In a manga where even most of the alien enemies aren't truly evil, he is the only truly evil character. Even Nurarihyon didn't kill Kaze when he was beaten. Nishi would have carved him up just to hear him scream, just like how he let the first team die just to watch the carnage.

[Revilenigma]

remember butter dog, hoi-hoi and i think even inaba
[hr]
you do make a good point, maybe the year he spent in gantz made him lose his mind

[Mr.Aaron]

I would say that Nishi has characteristics that make people perceive him as evil, but if you want to go into that whole song and dance, it will somehow transform into some debate on mankind's moral ethics. :/

[georgemarvin]

you do make a good point, maybe the year he spent in gantz made him lose his mind
Here's my take on Nishi: It's more likely Nishi hasn't changed a bit. He was a homicidal maniac from the day he was born. I can see Nishi as the kid that got his kicks pulling the wings off butterflies as soon as he could stand, killed the family dog when he was three, graduated to hurting other kids for fun before he entered kindergarten. I can see his own parents being afraid of him. He is a creepy little homicidal maniac by nature. That's why he has stayed with Gantz for so long. Gantz is the only creature Nishi has ever met that he can relate to. To Nishi, the points are like a token of affection; the more points he gets, the more that Nishi feels loved by the one creature in the universe that he loves and respects. His God of Death. The reason he treats the other people in Gantz the way he does is something like sibling rivalry. I think that when Oku was designing Nishi's character, he was thinking of Damien in "The Omen".

[warbandit66]

I'd imagine that he was probably beaten on pretty hard in school and possibly by his parents (maybe not his mum) and has developed this kind of personality. Although some children do kill animals from a young age, I recently heard about a 7 year old boy who went on a 30 minute killing spree in a zoo, feeding animals to crocodiles and smashing lizards and turtles with rocks. So you could be right george.

[Revilenigma]

there are 3 y-guns, there all at the top right side, and on one cover it shows all the weapons inside the ball spread out on the floor and you see 3 of them.

[Sheard]

Don't get me wrong. Nishi does have a little scrap of humanity; he might help somebody he likes, like Kei and Izumi, but he thinks of the rest of the team as prey. If one of them gets in his way, he will kill them without thinking twice. For that matter, he might kill them just for fun. He doesn't even bother to hide the fact that he is a natural born killer, either. Out of all of the characters that have come and gone in Gantz, he would be the one I would be the most afraid of meeting in a dark alley.

I don't think Nishi actually likes Kei or Izumi. I think a more accurate explanation would be that he feels they earned his respect on some level. Likewise, he doles out information only after a mission is completed and not before as if that's their reward for surviving. Those that died were just not worthy.

Everyone else can all go die for all he cares. I do think that Nishi dislikes a few of the others enough that he would kill them himself if he ran into them in a dark alley.

[Asp]

I found something interesting while rereading the first part of Gantz I would like to point out considering the whole discussion about if Nishi cleared or not.

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/20/07/ (http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/20/06/)

'TCH' (how that is interpreted i don't have a clue but its more about)
'Only 3...' this could be an indication of he is used of getting higher points.
Now, if we apply the maths, he must have cleared at least once, right?

[Mr.Aaron]

Maybe he is trying to revive his Mom?

he cried out, "Mama... Mama..." While he was dying, and "Only 10 more points..."

Probably has a 3% chance, but it's a theory...? xD

[KevinSephiroth]

But it would imply his mother to have been in gantz first .. Nothing is told about his mother so who might know ?

[Revilenigma]

oku said it himself that he has never cleared gantz and 3 points is his average, perhaps he said this because A. he wants to show off or B. He thought the adult onion alien was worth more.

[KevinSephiroth]

Do you have a link to this words of Oku ?

[Kozar927]

the last four posts are really gonna warrent a long george speech.
lol
even though its not how geroge feels I agree with you guys.
I dont think he has cleared and I belive he wanted to go free to be with his mom not revive her.

[croissant]

about nishi calling his mommy when he was dying.. i think its normal that any person would think of the person most closest to them.. even nishi. i mean, all the gantzers thought of somebody when they were near death. For the old man, it was his wife; for izumi, his girlfriend (maybe he saw differently when he was dying); for katou it was his bro; for kurono it was tae.

Despite how sadistic the guy is, I think he is still human. Kinda hard to believe when he has no value for life that is around him, huh?

[Quetz]

oku said it himself that he has never cleared gantz and 3 points is his average, perhaps he said this because A. he wants to show off or B. He thought the adult onion alien was worth more.

I find this hard to believe. For someone who has been at it as long as nishi, with tactics so similar to oka who has cleared 7 times, it just doesn't add up. Unless Tokyo just happened to be in the middle of a horrible dry spell the entire time nishi was there, and once the manga started focusing on it it just happened to pick up a LOT (several people getting 100 pts in a single mission like four or five missions after nishi just happened to die?)....It seems like Oku is just screwing nishi over as a character.

[KevinSephiroth]

I find this hard to believe. For someone who has been at it as long as nishi, with tactics so similar to oka who has cleared 7 times, it just doesn't add up. Unless Tokyo just happened to be in the middle of a horrible dry spell the entire time nishi was there, and once the manga started focusing on it it just happened to pick up a LOT (several people getting 100 pts in a single mission like four or five missions after nishi just happened to die?)....It seems like Oku is just screwing nishi over as a character.


I totally agree. How the hell could Nishi only get an average of 3 points, with his safe tactics ? And how can he pass the missions if he lets everyone die ? And only get 3 point ? Did the boss were a piece of cake or what ??

That just doesn't make sense . :s

[croissant]

me neither... But could it be that gantz sets the hardness of the aliens to be hunted for the gantz team? Maybe back then nishi had absolutely sucky teamates so the aliens to be hunted were pretty weak. Hence, his surprise that the onion alien was worth such small points. That would also explain the reason why the tokyo team was sent in osaka since gantz knew that the osaka team alone couldn't finish nuri off.

sounds farfetched tho... we've known that gantz can be cruel to its participants. Like what it did to kurono last time, with his solo mission. Really contradicting.

[Vancyer]

i'm going to have to side with the "nishi HAS cleared atleast once" crew on this one. There are just too many factors that support this... gerorge knows them all, as he has debaited it many many times..

[Quetz]

me neither... But could it be that gantz sets the hardness of the aliens to be hunted for the gantz team? Maybe back then nishi had absolutely sucky teamates so the aliens to be hunted were pretty weak. Hence, his surprise that the onion alien was worth such small points. That would also explain the reason why the tokyo team was sent in osaka since gantz knew that the osaka team alone couldn't finish nuri off.

sounds farfetched tho... we've known that gantz can be cruel to its participants. Like what it did to kurono last time, with his solo mission. Really contradicting.

If this is the case then it would be very uncharacteristic of Gantz, who impersonally sends people to die like it was their job.

Then again, he DID sort of save their lives to begin with, so I guess he's not all bad.

And I'd like to revise my statement. The only way that this actually happened without Nishi getting more than 100 points was if he ended up getting sent on a really hard hunt and had to stay low until the timer ran out, thus resetting his points back to zero.

[Kozar927]

And I'd like to revise my statement. The only way that this actually happened without Nishi getting more than 100 points was if he ended up getting sent on a really hard hunt and had to stay low until the timer ran out, thus resetting his points back to zero.

I think thats prob. a good theory.
The bottom line is Oku said nishi never cleared.
Oku created gantz. theirs no room to argue. It is just a fact.

[KevinSephiroth]

I think thats prob. a good theory.
The bottom line is Oku said nishi never cleared.
Oku created gantz. theirs no room to argue. It is just a fact.

I'm still waiting for this infamous Oku interviw ... :eyeroll
Well if Oku stated it, then it must be true. We just need to find the perfect theory to explain the whole Nishi background in Gantz's room. :p

[Kozar927]

Damn I wish I still had the link
On my old pc I had links to all his interviews. Lost them all

[Revilenigma]

I see nishi to be more like inaba then Oka, I only seems to kill something while its killikg a team member and probably when he was in the same team as Izumi not many people were dying, probably why he was so pissed at Kato for telling everyone to wear their suits.
[hr]
go to vimanga.ru and download the last issue of every volume. One of the extras is him talking about Nishis life, i think its volume 4,5 or 6

[croissant]

And I'd like to revise my statement. The only way that this actually happened without Nishi getting more than 100 points was if he ended up getting sent on a really hard hunt and had to stay low until the timer ran out, thus resetting his points back to zero.

If he did that then it would make more sense as to why nishi would know a lot without him getting 100 points. The guy probably knows how to play safe, and in the bird mission, since he was close to getting 100 points so he maybe thought he should risk it to get it over with...

[Quetz]

If he did that then it would make more sense as to why nishi would know a lot without him getting 100 points. The guy probably knows how to play safe, and in the bird mission, since he was close to getting 100 points so he maybe thought he should risk it to get it over with...

He was shot int he back by one of the random douchebags that popped up for that mission only while still in the room.

Wait, now that I think about it,wouldn't gantz transferring nishi to the mission location have fixed the suit?

[Amnesiac]

Gantz probably doesn't touch the suit unless it's broken.

[croissant]

if only someone in gantz would experiment with the mechanics of the transferring. Like what would happen if someone were to scribble their name on the back of their suits for fun with white paint and see if their names would be erased once they transferred. If it disappeared then that would mean that gantz resets their suits everytime they transfer, broken or not... I mean, vandalizing your suit wouldnt count as ruining it.

[georgemarvin]

I found it; it's in the back of volume 7. It says he had been in Gantz for about a year, and had been through about 30 missions. It says "he died just before reaching 100 points", which is just ambiguous enough to leave it up to the reader to assume that he never got that many points; it was before Oku revealed that a player could receive 100 points more than once, so he would have to be a little ambiguous about it, whether Nishi had received that many points or not. Also, it may be noted that the afterword was written by the editor, not Oku; the editor just talked to Oku on the phone and got a few quotes.

[Quetz]

Gantz probably doesn't touch the suit unless it's broken.

But it was broken, and it cost nishi his life, yea?

[GAT-X252]

IMO the suit was 100% ok after the transfer to the Tanaka Area (i don't have any proof to suport this but...that is my theory).

Nishi isn't good at melee fighting.

[Asp]

And I'd like to revise my statement. The only way that this actually happened without Nishi getting more than 100 points was if he ended up getting sent on a really hard hunt and had to stay low until the timer ran out, thus resetting his points back to zero.

I was thinking about that and have this little theory.

When someone enters Gantz he gives them informal or insulting names and insulting texts during the scoring.
(http://manga.bleachexile.com/gantz-chapter-20-page-7.html)

When a person performs well during missions, Gantz seizes the name calling and the insulting texts are left out.

Nishi is revered to as Mr.Nishi by Gantz, quite a complementing name if you ask me.

If Nishi used this coward technique, hiding when things got too tough, i don't think gantz would have as much respect for him and be calling him mr.Nishi.

[Kozar927]

@asp
thats not true he uses insaulting names even when hunters got 100 points in one mission.

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/216/14-15/

http://www.onemanga.com/Gantz/217/15/


Theirs no order to his insaults hes like a kid who just does/ says what he wants

[102jayday]

i think nishi has had a few game overs because of weak teams, after izumi's group left it must of been really bad noobs..when izumi group was there im sure nishi just stood by watching and learning about things lol
you guys say nishi has an average of like 3 points and stuff well not anymore he got 75 points in his 1st mission back thats the biggest score in one mission....well second, katou has that honour well um no 3rd...oka killed a 100 pointer once lol

[Quetz]

I've been thinking about this, and the more I think about it the more I like this theory:

Nishi first died with his mom there with him, possibly with his dad there too. Nishi reached 100 points right as his mom died, he revived her. This continued until his mom had somehow accumulated 100 points (since points carry over after you're revived, iirc. Izumi's line "That's right, I had collected 100 points..." is going through my head as I type this), at which point she left the game, confident that nishi was able to take care of himself. If his dad was there, then this situation would repeat itself until both his mom and dad were gone.

Finally the mission where he dies comes up. He sees that old couple with a kid they're trying to protect and it strikes a cord with him, but just as he was about to ask gantz to send him first he gets stabbed in the back by that noob. Wanting to help this family like someone (Probably Izumi. This seems uncharacteristic of Izumi, but if you consider the fact that he was probably an entirely different person without his memories of what had happened in the room, it is 100% possible) helped him when he first started, he demands the first transfer, and overexerts himself in trying to fight the tanaka alien head on.

It seems contrary to nishi's nature, but if the first paragraph's scenario did happen, then the second paragraph's scenario would certainly be possible. Any thoughts?

[Kozar927]

@quetz

interesting

you know how ever theirs many reasons that cant be true
number 1 of course being oku saying Nishi never cleared
but it is one of thoes cool ides to think what if it was true

[njt]

My take on his little "crying" episode is just a dramatic act to get himself saved. He's a middle schooler, acting like a tough ass would lower his chances of getting saved. So shouting at "mama" and crying seems like a good enough sympathy act if you ask me :D (fits his people controlling nature too~)

[croissant]

nishi must of loved his mom for sure... but you know, if his mom was such a loving parent why do you think nishi has this sadistic personality. Makes me wonder if his dad was some sadistic jerk. He probably was an alcoholic sleazeball or maybe they got divorced and beat his mom or something. I mean, you can't get such coldheartedness outta nowhere, right?

[Quetz]

nishi must of loved his mom for sure... but you know, if his mom was such a loving parent why do you think nishi has this sadistic personality. Makes me wonder if his dad was some sadistic jerk. He probably was an alcoholic sleazeball or maybe they got divorced and beat his mom or something. I mean, you can't get such coldheartedness outta nowhere, right?

I think seeing his mom get torn apart by mind-fucked aliens might be just enough to send him over the edge.

[Masterchief]

do we know how nishi died or is that just in your opinion? cuz I always thought that he just jumped off a building. and how do we know mr nishi isnt an insult? maybe gantz meant it as he's too serious for his age? if nishi was in middle school he'd be what 12-14 years old.

[croissant]

gee, reading the latest raw clears some stuff for me with nishi.... glad the gantz team started askin some questions.

[Revilenigma]

wrong, Nishi died from falling off a roof top when he was caught shop-lifting by the police. I just finished translating this from the Gantz manual.
[hr]
thats an intresting theory but Gantz still insults people who gwt 100 points, and since he uses -kun, it can also be used as an insult, the same way a teacher would call out a student, or perhaps gantz just calls the ones he respects -kun.

[georgemarvin]

I think that Nishi and Kikuchi may give us some contradictory information about the Katastrophe over the next few issues. Neither one has a great reputation, so we may get some clues that we can't trust.
I've wondered about Nishi's back story for a long time. He fell to his death while running from the cops after shoplifting.
I would like to see how the sadistic little homicidal maniac lives, before the end of the series. I can just imagine him continuing his criminal career while wearing a Gantz stealth suit. I can see him graduating from shoplifting at the mall to banks and armored trucks.

[Masterchief]

Whats wrong with kikuchi's reputation? infact kikuchi is quite interesting, hes in my opinion the only one that knows about gantz while not being involved(I dont think sabistain is aware of gantz imo he just assumes the site is a fansite).

[Revilenigma]

i doubt it, i think hes way past his shoplifting days and he does seem to want to leave gantz so i doubt he cares much about the weapons or the suit.

[Masterchief]

leave gantz? didn't the chapter before last clarify that he was quite thrilled for katastrophe. why would he leave?

[putopooche]

uhm.. nishi is cool hehe

[georgemarvin]

Looks like our favorite homicidal maniac has finally flipped his lid. Anybody else think Gantz will send the Osaka team to kill him? Or maybe the rest of the Tokyo team?

It would be interesting if some of those classmates he just killed turn up in Gantz for the Catastrophe mission.

[NumeroUno]

leave gantz? didn't the chapter before last clarify that he was quite thrilled for katastrophe. why would he leave?

It is pretty pointless to try and leave now anyway. Why would any of them try and leave when they know serious shit is bout to hit the fan.

I will admit that I think Nishi is missing some bolts and screws :darn lol but he is misunderstood alot too..
Anyone else here think that Nishi might be the guy like Keishimoto and has a double?
[hr]

It would be interesting if some of those classmates he just killed turn up in Gantz for the Catastrophe mission.

Doesn't Gantz only take people who die right before a mission?

[ctrxpler]

I'd love to see nishi double kill some of those bastard classmates.

[Mr.Aaron]

Haha, Ohhh Nishi. You silly murderer, youuuu.

I hope he doesn't die soon. :[

I want him to stay alive. ALIVE, I SAY. D:

[Revilenigma]

i guess he wants to watch katastrophe as a bystander, maybe he knows what will happen to gantz people when katastophe does happen.

[Revilenigma]

have you noticed that he only kills other humans who attack him first?

[Amigo!]

have you noticed that he only kills other humans who attack him first?

not sure what kind of difference that makes in his character...what are you trying to say that he isn't as crazy as we all think he is?
p.s. who was he talking to on his cell phone when those swat guys shot him to hell?

[El_Gustl]

He was negotiating with the Police, i think.

[Renan]

Maybe he was talking to Sakurai or his mommy.

[Damura]

^
Good people don't kill cats, even if they really want to. Good people would probably try to kill their attempted murderers though, if said good people have super strength and an array of explosive weaponry.

[Revilenigma]

I don't think Nishi is a good person but I don't think he's a bad person, He's just apathetic to what's going on around him. And about him talking about death and enjoying it: Let's face the facts, we all do, and don't try to deny it, It's just a scientific fact that our brain reacts positivly to when ever it sees violence or death because it's trying to warn us that even though we all live in a peaceful country, death is very real and we should acknowledge that it will happen to us. Nishi is just honest about because he doesn't care what others think aboout him.

[Damura]

Most people are entranced by life and death situations. At the very least, that is the picture Oku is painting of the common person. In the manga, we saw all those people at the train station crowding around the homeless man, doing nothing to help him. Later, we saw the bikers laughing as Nishi was killed. As the missions become more public, we keep seeing all these people rushing towards the places where violence is occurring (Oni mission, Nuri mission*). Basically, as long as they themselves are safe, they will continue to crowd around the violence. I'm not saying everyone enjoys the violence, but they are captivated by it.

* In the Oni mission, people crowded around as Tokyo fought the Oni boss, and possibly as the "normal" aliens started to transform into their alien bodies. In the Nurarihyon mission, Katou and... that girl (forgot her name, lol) came across a group of people walking around hoping to watch some people get killed by the aliens. I'm not sure if this counts, but hundreds of people seemed to be watching from their buildings as the chaos ensued (They are visible when parts of buildings were destroyed by the H-gun)

[Amnesiac]

It's just a cat! It is not a person. :p

Hmmm... so what makes a cat less important?

[Revilenigma]

maybe in Japanese culture a cat is seen to be no better than a rat or something, maybe I should look that up?

[JediKnight]

Nishi was nice to that girl who liked him. He could've killed her but didn't.
Nishi has problems. Yes he is misunderstood, but he has issues. We definitely
need a background on Nishi and his family life.

[Revilenigma]

I would love to see what his family life is like. I hope we see it befor the end of the world starts.

[cassaruby]

Nishi shows little tact when it comes to society. He shows more tact in battle.

[NumeroUno]

I would love to see what his family life is like. I hope we see it befor the end of the world starts.

So far we know that Nishi loves his mom alot. Maybe she is crazy too! :o

[Revilenigma]

I bet shes over-protective and spoils him a lot.

[warbandit66]

Nishi shows little tact when it comes to society. He shows more tact in battle.

That's because he's a violent sociopath, much like Izumi was.

[Revilenigma]

To be a sociopath they both would always have to be fucked up all the time, but both Izumi and Nishi have showed times where they weren't: Izumi saving his girlfriend, Nishi waiting for Kato to get out of the way so he can he finish off Nurharyion.

[warbandit66]

To be a sociopath they both would always have to be fucked up all the time, but both Izumi and Nishi have showed times where they weren't: Izumi saving his girlfriend, Nishi waiting for Kato to get out of the way so he can he finish off Nurharyion.

Sociopaths can blend with regular society, that's how they do their thing.

[Revilenigma]

Remember when Nishi used the H-Gun on Nurari and Kato was still stuck in its arm, he waited till Anzu got a across to help him him out before he fired the H-gun again, he got yelled at by Anzu and his excuse was: "I had to destroy i too, it was too risky". If it was really truly risky he would have killed the arm and Kato with it without hesitation in a second. And for Izumi: a Sociopath wouldn't sacrifice himself to save someone, if he was one he would have used his girlfriend as a meat shield.

[warbandit66]

I don't know about that, there was that serial killer Manson, I don't remember is first name, had a wife and a son yet at the same time committed truely despicable crimes, he was even released from prison early for "good behaviour". These people can easily fein behaviour that is socially acceptable.

[Revilenigma]

Sociopaths only do things for themselves, the guy you were talking about probably had a family cause it made him feel good. Nishi and Izumi on the other hand both made sacrifices to help others which a sociopath would never do because they only think about themselves 100% of the time.

[JediKnight]

Nishi didn't wait for Katou to get out of the way, he just shot. That's way
that osaka girl yelled at him and called a snot. Cause Nishi just shot
without warning. But Nishi spared his long time admirer, and didn't even
diss her when she expressed her love him. I think there is more to
Nishi then meets the eye.

[warbandit66]

I personally think that Nishi simply missed his shot on Nuri's arm and made no conscious effort to avoid shooting Katou and Anzu.

[Revilenigma]

he waited for at least 10 seconds before he shot again.
[hr]
Nishi didn't even raise his arm to aim at the arm and shoot again he was just standing there and watching Kato and if he did somehow shot and miss we would have seen the SFX.

[Amnesiac]

Nishi hesitated for a bit, giving Katou time to move out of the way. Had he fired the two shots in a row, Nuri would probably have died right there.

[warbandit66]

Nishi's been shown to be careless in the past, he simply made a mistake, that's all.

[georgemarvin]

Personally, I think that Nishi did wait before firing the second shot at Nuri, so that Katou could get free. He cut it as close as he could, though, because he didn't want to give Nuri any more time than he had to; he had evidently seen creatures like Nuri before, and knew that they could regenerate.
Nishi has helped people that he likes before; remember that he helped Kei during the Onion Alien mission. He told the survivors a little about Gantz. And he tried to warn them that Izumi was going to be attacked. However, he doesn't have enough of a sense of caring to actually go out on a limb and inconvenience himself to help them more than just the bare minimum.
Nishi enjoys killing things. He especially enjoys killing dangerous prey, like the aliens and his fellow humans. He also has a chip on his shoulder; he actually wants to provoke a fight, as evidenced by his actions at school before the massacre.
In short, Nishi is a complex character, capable of both great accomplishments and great evil.
In response to several people: Sociopaths DO often show both compassion and exhibit acts of kindness and self-sacrifice. The same guy who took a bullet for somebody he barely knew in Vietnam, loved his wife and made great sacrifices to provide for his family, had also tortured and killed a couple of dozen teenaged girls over the same time period. All of his neighbors thought he was totally normal, until the FBI came knocking. Izumi is that type of sociopath. Nishi isn't. He's the weird kid that everybody is a little scared of, like the boys responsible for the Columbine massacre, or tje stock trader here in Atlanta who snapped after a particularly trying morning and killed everybody in the office, or any of the slightly deranged postal workers who suddenly snapped after years of slightly scary and aberrant behavior.
He was always one step away from mass murder, and it didn't take much to push him over the edge.

[El Samurai Guapo]

Seriously, if everyone on this board considers Nishi to be a "psychopath" (which I do not think he is), I'd really love to see what you'd all say about me if I was in his position (i.e. armed with gantz equipment). I'm just going to say it, if I had a gantz suit, I wouldn't let people f*ck with me. Not that I normally do, but there is only so much one can do about someone that annoys you in the real world without the consequences of ending up in prison. So yes, I would have killed everyone in that classroom as well, except I would have shot each and everyone one of their limbs off watched them slowly bleed out. Attempting to murder me is a crime punishable by a thousand deaths.

On second thought, I probably would have shot all the males in that class in the crotch, effectively castrating them. That'll teach them! As for the females, lets see, I would allow any attractive ones to trade their lives in return for...uhh...what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yeah, favors! :)

If I had a gantz suit + controller (for invisibility), I would pretty much do whatever I wanted, however I wanted, to whoever I wanted. The fact that Nishi, along with all the other Tokyo gantzers, still try and get along as ordinary members of society despite having access to gantz equipment is appalling to me. I'd have already robbed several banks while invisible and been living like a king (while not on a mission of course). Seriously, why waste time going to school or work when you might die at any moment? Makes no sense.

[Revilenigma]

If my class mates would have thrown me out a window I would have gone back and thrown them all out the window.

[warbandit66]

Seriously, if everyone on this board considers Nishi to be a "psychopath" (which I do not think he is), I'd really love to see what you'd all say about me if I was in his position (i.e. armed with gantz equipment). I'm just going to say it, if I had a gantz suit, I wouldn't let people f*ck with me. Not that I normally do, but there is only so much one can do about someone that annoys you in the real world without the consequences of ending up in prison. So yes, I would have killed everyone in that classroom as well, except I would have shot each and everyone one of their limbs off watched them slowly bleed out. Attempting to murder me is a crime punishable by a thousand deaths.

On second thought, I probably would have shot all the males in that class in the crotch, effectively castrating them. That'll teach them! As for the females, lets see, I would allow any attractive ones to trade their lives in return for...uhh...what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yeah, favors! :)

If I had a gantz suit + controller (for invisibility), I would pretty much do whatever I wanted, however I wanted, to whoever I wanted. The fact that Nishi, along with all the other Tokyo gantzers, still try and get along as ordinary members of society despite having access to gantz equipment is appalling to me. I'd have already robbed several banks while invisible and been living like a king (while not on a mission of course). Seriously, why waste time going to school or work when you might die at any moment? Makes no sense.

You also said that if you had a Gantz suit you'd use it to assasinate polititions that you dislike and walk around like some sort of urban ninja.

[NumeroUno]

You also said that if you had a Gantz suit you'd use it to assasinate polititions that you dislike and walk around like some sort of urban ninja.

Lol thats crazy. I don't even think Nishi would do that.

[GAT-X252]

I agree with Warbandit.

Nishi just missed the first time, maybe after some thinking he tought that it would be better to destroy the whole body.

But giving Kato a chance to leave? i don't think so.

[cassaruby]

Seriously, if everyone on this board considers Nishi to be a "psychopath" (which I do not think he is), I'd really love to see what you'd all say about me if I was in his position (i.e. armed with gantz equipment). I'm just going to say it, if I had a gantz suit, I wouldn't let people f*ck with me. Not that I normally do, but there is only so much one can do about someone that annoys you in the real world without the consequences of ending up in prison. So yes, I would have killed everyone in that classroom as well, except I would have shot each and everyone one of their limbs off watched them slowly bleed out. Attempting to murder me is a crime punishable by a thousand deaths.

On second thought, I probably would have shot all the males in that class in the crotch, effectively castrating them. That'll teach them! As for the females, lets see, I would allow any attractive ones to trade their lives in return for...uhh...what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yeah, favors! :)

If I had a gantz suit + controller (for invisibility), I would pretty much do whatever I wanted, however I wanted, to whoever I wanted. The fact that Nishi, along with all the other Tokyo gantzers, still try and get along as ordinary members of society despite having access to gantz equipment is appalling to me. I'd have already robbed several banks while invisible and been living like a king (while not on a mission of course). Seriously, why waste time going to school or work when you might die at any moment? Makes no sense.

Maybe they choose to live a life with society and don't choose that kinda vanity in a manner of speaking?
Going out like your speaking has prices as well. You might have a hard time making the same kind of relationships with normal people, even if you hid it well. Old habits might die hard, or burn in the mind forever. It would be hard to be in a relationship like Kurono is with Tae, unless you got lucky in the gantz room.
Gantz would have probably popped your head, for being conspicious.

[cassaruby]

I do not consider Nishi to be a psychopath. I consider Nishi to be a sociopath.

There is a difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. :p

But they just defined sociopath as someone who only cares about himself, yet Nishi appears to care about others as long as they don't get in his way. It was also said in a previous post that sociopaths can help others and still be selfish. In society I'd think he'd be considered a psychopath based on his murdering ways and smiles.

So, I'd define Nishi as a great guy, once you get passed his short comings, wouldn't you agree?

[cassaruby]

When Nishi lied in Volume 1 about Gantz being a gameshow, I knew right away that Nishi has a tendency for being a sociopath.

I didn't know he was a sociopath after Vol 1. But I did know about catastrophe :p

[El Samurai Guapo]

Maybe they choose to live a life with society and don't choose that kinda vanity in a manner of speaking?
Going out like your speaking has prices as well. You might have a hard time making the same kind of relationships with normal people, even if you hid it well. Old habits might die hard, or burn in the mind forever. It would be hard to be in a relationship like Kurono is with Tae, unless you got lucky in the gantz room.
Gantz would have probably popped your head, for being conspicious.

Gantz wouldn't "pop" my head. If Nishi could get away with massacring his entire classroom and several cops, all while fully visible, that's pretty much all I need to know. I've actually put a lot of thought into what I would do if I was a gantzer, assuming the rules would be the same for me as they are in the manga, I'd be fine.

As far as making relationships goes, nobody would know about my gantzer identity, so I don't see how that would change. Not that I'd want to be an a relationship like Kei and Tae anyway, like I said before, if any mission may be my last, it wouldn't be wise to become too attached to anyone. I'd enjoy living as the most powerful being on Earth, doing anything I wanted, for as long as possible.

[Revilenigma]

He probably remembers Kato helping him during the Tanaka Alien mission, no evidence of a missed shot: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=24, http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=25, http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=26, http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=27, http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=28.

[cassaruby]

Gantz wouldn't "pop" my head. If Nishi could get away with massacring his entire classroom and several cops, all while fully visible, that's pretty much all I need to know. I've actually put a lot of thought into what I would do if I was a gantzer, assuming the rules would be the same for me as they are in the manga, I'd be fine.

As far as making relationships goes, nobody would know about my gantzer identity, so I don't see how that would change. Not that I'd want to be an a relationship like Kei and Tae anyway, like I said before, if any mission may be my last, it wouldn't be wise to become too attached to anyone. I'd enjoy living as the most powerful being on Earth, doing anything I wanted, for as long as possible.

Oh I thought we were talking about the Phase 1 Gantz Room with actual rules.
One person would know your identity... you! dun dun dun... could you take the pressure or lose your social sense of humanity?!

[Revilenigma]

I think the reason why Gantz killed Tetsuo and not Nishi was because Nishi wasn't a idiot and kept the x-gun hidden so that everyone thought he was using magic or something.

[cassaruby]

I think Gantz didn't kill Nishi based on the facts...

The rules were different for Tetsuo compared to Phase 2 with Nishi.
Speculation: Nishi just might ask Gantz so he's not guessing
Nishi doesn't make it obvious what happened. Even though he left a witness, his job was cleaner than Tetsuo's for a hit. Open public blasting people with motorcycles... dumb.

[JediKnight]

Nishi is misunderstood. He just needs a hug:p.

[cassaruby]

Nishi only needs to get laid. Then, he will act normal. :lovebunny

That's scenes coming
*I needda fat girl, fat girl, fat girl toniiight*
*and I say... I'm in the mood.. and I.. I need some fooood*

[Amigo!]

I bet Nishi likes fat girls. :Haha

Nishi does not seem to be the type of guy, who will fall in love with normal girls. I bet that he wants a female who is more cruel and sadistic than him.

hahahah! are you guys talking about that ugly chick at his school?! oh man id love to see some fucked up panels of him screwing her then throwing up.

[NumeroUno]

hahahah! are you guys talking about that ugly chick at his school?! oh man id love to see some fucked up panels of him screwing her then throwing up.

Lmao maybe thats because... your fucked up? :o

:p

Seriously though I wouldn't be able to see Nishi the same way then.. Besides he needs to find a hide out more than women cause when he comes back the swat team going to be looking for him..

[Revilenigma]

He'll probably live with that girl till katastrophe, kind of like that manga The World is Mine!

[NumeroUno]

He'll probably live with that girl till katastrophe, kind of like that manga The World is Mine!

I hope not.. I got too admit if he did I would die laughing :oh

[Revilenigma]

I smell romantic-comedy lol!

[NumeroUno]

I smell romantic-comedy lol!

Oh man :sweat
I hope we get too see Nishi's parents. Hopefully Oku will show the cops questioning them about where he is.

[cassaruby]

Oh man :sweat
I hope we get too see Nishi's parents. Hopefully Oku will show the cops questioning them about where he is.

They might pull out real guns and start it up with the cops too. Like family, like son?

[NumeroUno]

They might pull out real guns and start it up with the cops too. Like family, like son?

For some reason I have this feeling that Nishi's character wasn't as confrontational and cocky till Gantz came into his life. He probably comes from a good family and had friends in school before Gantz.

[JediKnight]

I bet you Nishi is a spoiled rich kid. He just does things for attention.

[NumeroUno]

I like that idea. Nishi's Mommy would pull out a machine gun from the closet. :Haha



I bet, Nishi got no friends in school. He does not care about making friends. He is highly independent, and that is why he is cool.

Nishi might come from a normal family. We might found out in the upcoming chapters.

When I saw him in the picture Kurono was looking at he looked happy..
The Nishi now would laugh if the teacher told him to take a class photo.
So he may not have had many to no friends but he didn't seem as "badass".

[Revilenigma]

I bet you Nishi is a spoiled rich kid. He just does things for attention.

Probably has a rich divorced mother.

[NumeroUno]

Probably has a rich divorced mother.

His mom might be hot. :p

Or she might look like the fat tae girl... :s

[Revilenigma]

lol Oedipus Rex

[JediKnight]

Oku should show us Nishi with his family. We already know how Nishi
is in school, and how the other students relate to him. Now I'm
very interested in Nishi civilian life.

[cassaruby]

I think what keeps Nishi interesting is his mystery. If you reveal too much it can only add up so high, but when all you know is his dark heart it's more limitless.

[Mr.Aaron]

I agree with that statement, but I think that Nishi will remain interesting, even if he is fully developed as a character.

I am actually want to see a sidestory/one-shot manga where Nishi is the main character.
Nishi must have lots of crazy adventures before Kei Kurono and Katou entered the Gantz room

Oh man, that would be so cool.

[teh100pointer]

You would not see him on most pages, because he's used stealth (joke) :D
That would be super cool.

[Revilenigma]

I can't wait for Izumi to come back cause then we'll be able to see Izumi, Hoi-hoi and Nishi fighting side by side! hihihihihi! (me giggling like schoolgirl)

Do you think nishi suffers from a multiple personality disorder?

[JediKnight]

Unfortunately Nishi is a character that needs other characters around him to
make him better. He's not a solo specialist like Izumi, nor is he a guy that makes others better like Katou or Kurono. But Nishi is very good in groups
wheather he wants to admit it or not. It might be hard for Oku to have chapters starring only Nishi. But he does deserve a flashback and more
page time.

[Revilenigma]

He needs other people to use them as bait. :p

Even though he uses his teammates as a bait, he does end up sometimes saving there lives: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-263&page_nr=24

[JediKnight]

Nishi using people as bait, lately no. Now he just attacks the aliens weakness
when he finds it. Sometimes that happens when other people are fighting
the aliens.

[Revilenigma]

http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-21&page_nr=3
he used the osaka team as bait, and we don't really see anything from italy so it's hard to know what he did there.
[hr]
hey look it's nishi!!!: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=hen&chapter=hen-57&page_nr=11 hahaha!!!

[Revilenigma]

there is one guy who looks a lot like Izumi: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=hen&chapter=hen-17&page_nr=2 and kato: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=hen&chapter=hen-91&page_nr=3 and oku himself is in it: http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=hen&chapter=hen-77&page_nr=4

[NumeroUno]

It is Nishi! Oku Hiroya must have taken characters from HEN to Gantz. He is the maker of HEN and Gantz. :p

... You guys just realized that the characters from HEN look like the ones in Gantz lol? :amuse

The two main (male) characters of HEN are obviously look alikes of Katou and Kurono. The two female main characters resemble Tae and the other girl is mixture of Kishimoto and Reika. I think its pretty cool he took them into Gantz, with the new style of course.

[Revilenigma]

I only noticed the kato thing when oku redrew his old characters with his new style.

[JediKnight]

That's the first thing I noticed, how characters in Gantz where better drawn
versions of the Hen characters. Oku wrote them both, and authors tend to use the same design for characters. It's a habit I guess.

[warbandit66]

I personally prefer the style Oku used during the Izumi vs Vamps outside the station fight, Nishi looked cooler then.

[warbandit66]

Nishi looks too much like Mokuro Hibari from Katekyo Hitman Reborn for my tastes, in fact the current look of all the characters doesn't appeal to me as much as the previous styles.

[warbandit66]

He looks too generic to me.

[GAT-X252]

I agree with Warbandit.

Nishi at the beggining of the manga really looked like a 14 year old boy, and he was also kinda ugly.

Now he looks like he is 18 or something, and also he looks too...how can i write it..."Bishounen", cute boy?

[JediKnight]

I like the new look Nishi, he still has a creepy feel to him. He just better
looking.

[El Samurai Guapo]

Oh I thought we were talking about the Phase 1 Gantz Room with actual rules.
One person would know your identity... you! dun dun dun... could you take the pressure or lose your social sense of humanity?!

Dun dun dun...oh my gosh! How would I ever be able to sleep at night after killing people like the insects they are and committing all kinds of crimes!? Oh yeah, considering the fact that I'd be in a king sized silk bed surrounded by beautiful women, I'd sleep very nicely!

It really is amusing how you actually believe that the normal behavior of a homo sapian is to be civilized, moral, unselfish being. There's a reason why governments exist, and that's because humans are incapable of governing themselves. It is not moral beliefs that stops most individuals from violating social norms (AKA committing crimes), it is the threat of incarceration.

We've all seen what happens during major riots and natural disasters where the police are unable to respond to crimes in progress. What to people do? They go on a rampage, breaking into stores and private property, looting and burglarizing, starting fires, etc.

The point is, if you give an individual the ability to live above the rule of law (gantz equipment for instance), he/she is simply going to do as they please.

[digitaldude]

I agree with JediKnight.

I really do like the new look by Nishi. He looks better than before. :p

Admit it, your gay for nishi.


but, seriously nishi has changed alot and he looks as if he aged although he died when he was 14 and only got resurected a few months ago.

[teh100pointer]

I did some research about Nishi' style

1,
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-5&page_nr=3
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-17&page_nr=14
http://www.mangavolume.com/gantz/chapter-gantz-18/
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-21&page_nr=7
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-37&page_nr=11

2,
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-220&page_nr=3
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-229&page_nr=18

3,
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-231&page_nr=8
The first scene is ok, but whats up with the last one? Its really weird.
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-231&page_nr=9
Weird again.

4, still ok
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-266&page_nr=26

5, changes
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-280&page_nr=10
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-287&page_nr=2
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-288&page_nr=2 old himself
http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=gantz&chapter=gantz-294&page_nr=6 cutie

This post is a little long and unnecessary, but i spent my time with it, now i can go and have lunch.:)

[Revilenigma]

I personally prefer the style Oku used during the Izumi vs Vamps outside the station fight, Nishi looked cooler then.

yeah that was my favorite version of nishi.

[El Samurai Guapo]

I agree and disagree with simultaneously.

I agree with that point, because most people will do whatever they want, if they have the power. Nishi is a good example. He kills whoever tries to mess with him. He can do whatever he wants, because he has the power. He owns the weapons and tools from Gantz room.

I disagree with that point, because there are a few people who follow moral righteousness, even if no one is watching. Katou is a good example. Even if he faces the temptation of lethal Gantz weapons, he still tries to use non-lethal weapon like the Y-Gun.

My point is that everyone is different. Not everyone will try to live above the law, even if he/she is given the opportunity to do so. Nishi and Katou are good examples of that. They are a contrast to each other.


You're right about Katou, but he is more of an exception rather than the rule. Notice how out of the several dozen people watching the homeless guy about to get run over, he's the only one that jumps down to assist? People like Katou are very few and far between. Katou is practically a saint...which is why he's such an interesting character.

Nishi, however, does show a lot of restraint as well though. So far he has only killed people who have attempted to kill him first, which is justifiable in my book. He's definitely not running around doing whatever he wants with his gantz tools. Quite frankly, I think most people would do a lot more with our gantz suits any of the members of the Tokyo team do.

[georgemarvin]

Dun dun dun...oh my gosh! How would I ever be able to sleep at night after killing people like the insects they are and committing all kinds of crimes!? Oh yeah, considering the fact that I'd be in a king sized silk bed surrounded by beautiful women, I'd sleep very nicely!

It really is amusing how you actually believe that the normal behavior of a homo sapian is to be civilized, moral, unselfish being. There's a reason why governments exist, and that's because humans are incapable of governing themselves. It is not moral beliefs that stops most individuals from violating social norms (AKA committing crimes), it is the threat of incarceration.

We've all seen what happens during major riots and natural disasters where the police are unable to respond to crimes in progress. What to people do? They go on a rampage, breaking into stores and private property, looting and burglarizing, starting fires, etc.

The point is, if you give an individual the ability to live above the rule of law (gantz equipment for instance), he/she is simply going to do as they please.

Actually, there is one HUGE hole in your theory: The societies with the most police usually have the most violent crime. In fact, China has far fewer police than the U.S., despite having a population that is over 3 times as large, but they have much less violent crime than we do here. It's almost a universal truth that more cops and more rigorous law enforcement guarantee an increase in crime.

No matter where we live, or what form of government we have, most of us aren't saints. However, there is a big difference between being a self-centered, uncaring, somewhat immoral, easily frightened, selfish average homo sapien member of society and a cold-blooded murderer.

Most of us on this forum are smart enough to plan a murder and carry it out with very little chance of getting caught. Most of us have ready access to guns and all of us have access to other lethal weapons like knives and swords. However, I would be willing to bet that none of us has ever killed anybody within our own societies, not even their worst enemy. Fear of the government and prosecution or the lack of means to commit crimes aren't why we live within the rules of our society.

It isn't even morality or religion, for that matter. It's a basic fact of evolution. We have evolved to live within a community for mutual protection. We don't kill or seriously injure members of our own society because it's been bred into us for millions of years. In prehistoric times, a human being couldn't survive alone for long. Without somebody to keep a fire going at night, somebody to stand watch for predators, somebody to cook the meals for the watchmen, without a group cooperating to help bring down the big game, survival would be nearly impossible. We don't do anything bad enough to be ostracized from the group. That's why most murders are committed by family members in the heat of an argument, when rationality is suspended.

It's also the reason why drug, gambling and prostitution laws don't work: the government doesn't accept such behavior, but the society does. Neither of those actions will cause the person doing the crime to become an outcast from the community. More enforcement just means more people in jail, not any meaningful reduction in the amount of people who commit the crime.

That is also the reason why a person who won't kill his own worst enemy is perfectly willing to kill perfect strangers who have never done anything to him, for no apparent reason, just because they belong to another society. We have evolved to protect our own community, even to the point of killing or dying for it, just like an ant, a honey bee or a monkey. Most of us don't even question why we have to go to war. That's why I had to qualify the previous statement; some of us have killed other human beings during a war, even though they had no personal reason to kill. Protecting our own society and killing its enemies is so much a part of our nature that we don't even question it.

That's also how gangs form; a group of people form their own society within the broader one, with its own rules. Notice that anybody in a street gang won't steal from other members, and especially won't kill his fellow gang members, even if the gang is known for violence. They are usually intensely loyal; they will serve 20 years in jail rather than give up the names of their fellow gang members. They will fight and die for the gang. That makes them normal human beings who are following a rational instinct.

Everybody in Gantz except Nishi has remained a normal member of society, even the biker gang and the thugs in the Dino mission. They follow their basic instinct and live within the rules of their own societies.

A cold-blooded killer like Nishi is the rare exception to the rule. He is NOT a normal human being. He is a social outcast who doesn't even try to fit into any society, a loner who doesn't live by any of the rules. He is a natural predator, and everybody who knows him has an instinctive repulsion to him; he doesn't belong to their society, and they all know it. That's what would make him a serial killer, whether Gantz existed or not. Predators must have prey, and his chosen prey is his fellow sentient beings.

[georgemarvin]

@ georgemarvin

I do not see Nishi as a serial killer. I see him as a spree killer.

Serial killers have killed at least 3 people within a long period of time (with cool down, rest, and normal activities between the murders). Nishi may have traits of a serial killer, but I am not sure if he should be labeled as one.

Spree killers kill many people within a short period of time (without rest/normal activity between the killings). For example, school shooters would be considered spree killers.

I think that Nishi is a spree killer, with traits of being a serial killer.

You're forgetting that Nishi was responsible for the deaths of at least 4 or 5 whole groups of recruits before Kei and Katou arrived. He said it had been a long time since anybody except him had survived a mission. He told Kei's group just enough info to get them killed, and he killed the biker at the start of the second mission. From just that little bit of info, he is at least partially responsible for about a hundred deaths over the course of a couple of months. And that isn't counting the sentient aliens he killed. He has survived at least 30 Gantz missions, in all of which he had to kill sentient beings to survive. Remember that there are severe penalties for failing; he was surprised to find out that Kei had failed a mission and survived. That means Nishi had killed the boss aliens himself every time in order to make it back, several times in a row. Killing is as natural for Nishi as breathing. He did go overboard in the schoolroom, but they weren't his first victims by far. It's very likely that he had personally killed other Gantz recruits besides the biker, as well. If you'll remember, he had powered up his gun and was about to kill the three kids who saw him kill the cat when the Gantz signal interrupted him, and he walked away, ominously saying "Tonight". Nishi is just a natural born killer who can barely contain his homicidal tendencies in the best of times; anything could have set him off. In his defense, he does have a tiny drop of humanity left; it looked like he wasn't going to kill the girls who were huddled in a corner until one of them called him a sick freak.

If we ever get Nishi's full backstory, his body count may well be several hundred people and thousands of aliens.

[El Samurai Guapo]

Actually, there is one HUGE hole in your theory: The societies with the most police usually have the most violent crime. In fact, China has far fewer police than the U.S., despite having a population that is over 3 times as large, but they have much less violent crime than we do here. It's almost a universal truth that more cops and more rigorous law enforcement guarantee an increase in crime.

No matter where we live, or what form of government we have, most of us aren't saints. However, there is a big difference between being a self-centered, uncaring, somewhat immoral, easily frightened, selfish average homo sapien member of society and a cold-blooded murderer.

Most of us on this forum are smart enough to plan a murder and carry it out with very little chance of getting caught. Most of us have ready access to guns and all of us have access to other lethal weapons like knives and swords. However, I would be willing to bet that none of us has ever killed anybody within our own societies, not even their worst enemy. Fear of the government and prosecution or the lack of means to commit crimes aren't why we live within the rules of our society.

It isn't even morality or religion, for that matter. It's a basic fact of evolution. We have evolved to live within a community for mutual protection. We don't kill or seriously injure members of our own society because it's been bred into us for millions of years. In prehistoric times, a human being couldn't survive alone for long. Without somebody to keep a fire going at night, somebody to stand watch for predators, somebody to cook the meals for the watchmen, without a group cooperating to help bring down the big game, survival would be nearly impossible. We don't do anything bad enough to be ostracized from the group. That's why most murders are committed by family members in the heat of an argument, when rationality is suspended.

It's also the reason why drug, gambling and prostitution laws don't work: the government doesn't accept such behavior, but the society does. Neither of those actions will cause the person doing the crime to become an outcast from the community. More enforcement just means more people in jail, not any meaningful reduction in the amount of people who commit the crime.

That is also the reason why a person who won't kill his own worst enemy is perfectly willing to kill perfect strangers who have never done anything to him, for no apparent reason, just because they belong to another society. We have evolved to protect our own community, even to the point of killing or dying for it, just like an ant, a honey bee or a monkey. Most of us don't even question why we have to go to war. That's why I had to qualify the previous statement; some of us have killed other human beings during a war, even though they had no personal reason to kill. Protecting our own society and killing its enemies is so much a part of our nature that we don't even question it.

That's also how gangs form; a group of people form their own society within the broader one, with its own rules. Notice that anybody in a street gang won't steal from other members, and especially won't kill his fellow gang members, even if the gang is known for violence. They are usually intensely loyal; they will serve 20 years in jail rather than give up the names of their fellow gang members. They will fight and die for the gang. That makes them normal human beings who are following a rational instinct.

Everybody in Gantz except Nishi has remained a normal member of society, even the biker gang and the thugs in the Dino mission. They follow their basic instinct and live within the rules of their own societies.

A cold-blooded killer like Nishi is the rare exception to the rule. He is NOT a normal human being. He is a social outcast who doesn't even try to fit into any society, a loner who doesn't live by any of the rules. He is a natural predator, and everybody who knows him has an instinctive repulsion to him; he doesn't belong to their society, and they all know it. That's what would make him a serial killer, whether Gantz existed or not. Predators must have prey, and his chosen prey is his fellow sentient beings.

georgemarvin, you sound a lot like a libertarian, or at least your ideas seem consistent with one. Smaller government, lower taxes, more freedom = lower crime rates. I got to admit though, I never would have expected the argument you presented. I figured somebody would have replied to my post trying to make a case for morality/religion, but instead I get your response which makes an argument from an evolutionary stand point. Omoshiroi.

First off, I’m sorry to say that there is no hole in my argument. You were wrong right off the bat. China has more law enforcement personnel than the United States. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates the total number of sworn law enforcement officers in the U.S. at around 860,000. China’s PAP (People’s Armed Police) alone is estimated to have 1.5 million members. This does not even include all of the municipal police forces China has! You really picked a bad example here. Not only does China have far more military and police than the U.S., but China is also a communist state. In case you didn’t know, communism = big government. Big government = more regulation. Under communism, the government regulates and controls virtually every socio-economic aspect of the country.

The United States is almost the opposite. Here our nation is a capitalist one. Capitalism means we have much a much smaller government that regulates a lot less of what goes on in our society and economy. The U.S. is also a constitutional representative democracy, and here citizens have far more freedoms, rights, and due process than those that live in communist states. So tell me, which nation’s citizens see more rigorous enforcement, the ones from the U.S. where their very constitution enables them things like free speech and the right to own firearms, or the ones from China, who could be arrested for merely speaking out against their government? You got it backwards; the reason why you see more violent crime in the U.S. is because of how non-restrictive the U.S. government is compared to China. Americans have too many “rights” for their own good. This country has more guns in the hands of private citizens than any other country in the world, something that undoubtedly contributes to the amount of violent crime here.

I’m afraid there is no “universal truth” that more law enforcement = more crime (what hallucinogen were you taking when you came up with that?). If your argument was true, that less law enforcement would lower crime rates, then LE wouldn’t exist. What if your local law enforcement agency were to make a public announcement on television that they would all be going on vacation for two weeks, during which time there would be no cops patrolling the streets, making arrests, or responding to any calls whatsoever. What do you think would happen during those two weeks? If people knew for certain that no matter what they did, there would be no government action, society would be reduced to total dystopia. People would be raping, robbing, burglarizing and killing each other in no time. Not according to you though. In your opinion, the cops would come back from their vacation to find things just the way they were when they left, because of some evolutionary instinct that makes most people incapable of harming members of their own society. Honestly, the religious moral beliefs argument is more valid than that nonsense.

“Most of us on this forum are smart enough to plan a murder and carry it out with very little chance of getting caught. Most of us have ready access to guns and all of us have access to other lethal weapons like knives and swords.”

I completely disagree. It is a lot harder to get away with murder than you think. We live in the 21st century, where state-of-the-art forensic technology makes it very easy for investigators to solve homicides. Not only that, but the entertainment media, with movies and television series about detectives a dime a dozen (Law and Order, CSI, etc.), has programmed people into believing that it is technically impossible to get away with committing felonious violent crimes. Which is the whole point, even if most people here, without even realizing it, had the necessary smarts, and the necessary tools to “carry out a murder with very little chance of getting caught”, they are still unlikely to do so out of fear, because they have been cultured to believe that they will be apprehended sooner or later.

Having gantz equipment at your disposal is a completely different story, because it eliminates the fear factor. You know for a fact that you’re above the law. That you can do whatever you want and nobody can do anything to stop you. What Nishi has done is not unlike what many others would do in his position. Even your argument about how we’re evolved in such a way that, no matter what, we will not damage members of our own society because we rely upon them (which I don’t agree with), is no longer in effect at this point. Someone empowered the way Nishi is, no longer has to rely on his own society for anything, because he/she is empowered to the point where they can physically take whatever they want or need by force. At that point abiding by societies rules is actually more of a hindrance than it is a benefit.

“It's also the reason why drug, gambling and prostitution laws don't work: the government doesn't accept such behavior, but the society does.”

They don’t work because punishments for those “victim-less crimes” are basically slaps on the wrist. You can make any law work with enough enforcement. If the government made it justifiable for law enforcement to perform a roadside execution on someone who is merely suspected of being involved in prostitution (for instance), you would see that crime being drastically curbed. Remember, fear is the greatest motivator.

A member of this forum (I believe It was Amnesiac) posted a link to a website on another thread that showed 5 different psychological studies that demonstrate the cruel reality of human nature. If you didn’t already do so, I suggest you read them.

[Revilenigma]

It's almost a universal truth that more cops and more rigorous law enforcement guarantee an increase in crime.

nah, I think it's because since there's more cops more of the deaths have a chance of being reported.

[georgemarvin]

@El Samurai Guapo: First, you need to get your facts straight. The PAP is roughly equivalent to our own National Guard, NOT a domestic police force. There's a reason why its other names are the Public Security ARMY and the Internal Guard. About half of its forces aren't even deployed domestically. If you wanted to compare armies, theirs is, indeed, larger than ours. I was talking about their police force as it pertains to law enforcement, not the national guard units of their army, whose job is related to national emergencies, fires, earthquakes, natural disasters, etc., like our own National Guard. Their other duties include the Chinese equivalent of the Forestry Service, counter-terrorism, border security and providing port security. Their only jobs within the police force are to provide executioners when people have been convicted of capital crimes, and to provide the equivalent of SWAT teams in the event of domestic terrorism, hostage situations or other situations that require a military response that the local police are incapable of providing.

If you want to compare apples to bananas, you can say whatever you want. Politicians are good at making that kind of comparison. I'm not. I was doing a direct comparison of apples to apples.

It is true that we have a lot more freedom than the Chinese. My point still stands, though. They have far fewer POLICE forces per capita than we do, and far less violent crime.

Maybe I should have used a European example. After all, we do have the largest percent of people imprisoned of any country in the world, the largest POLICE force, and one of the highest rates of violent crime of any industrialized country, all at the same time. Since you seem to prefer Capitalist examples only:
Murder rate per 100,000 population:
USA: 5.6
Japan: 0.5
Norway: 0.78
Denmark: 0.79
Austria: 0.81
Netherlands: 0.97
Germany: 0.98
Italy: 1.23
England: 1.62
Canada: 1.65
Meanwhile, the Netherlands, for instance, just have 1 policeman for each 470 population. The countries on the above list generally have MUCH smaller police forces, both total and per capita, than the U.S., and that's just a representative example. If you added in their respective National Guards, as you did for China, their forces would still be smaller than ours.
Get the picture? More police do NOT mean a lower violent crime rate.
Also, more police don't even mean a higher arrest percentage. Here in the U.S., back in 1993, there were 14 juvenile arrests per 100,000 juvenile population for murder. By 2005, the number had gone down to just 2.3. More cops but less arrests???

About the size of government: Ours USED TO BE small. It has become quite large over the past few decades. If you count all federal, state, county and local governmental employees, we have a massive government. Our government now directly employs a total of 19.3 million people. Government contracts to private employers account for about that amount again, then you have to add military personnel; our government either directly or indirectly accounts for about a third of the country's total employment. And that's besides all of the health care programs like Medicare and Medicaid which account for about another 7% of GDP. As the government picks up the tab for 53% of all health care in the country, we could easily assign 53% of health care salaries as a government expense by proxy.

About getting away with murder: Actually, when you subtract murders committed by family members, the majority of the remaining murderers DO get away with it. It's just a statistical fact. And most of them aren't exactly brain surgeon material.

I didn't say that we won't harm each other, no matter what. It's just that we stay within the broad rules of our society. Think about it: even if there was no legal penalty for murder, if people knew you committed a murder, they will not want to associate with you. You would lose all of your social status, your friends, and even your family would be scared of you. Since there would be no laws to stop them, the people in the town would be likely to lynch you on sight. If you weren't lynched, nobody would help you if you were sick, nobody would would feed you when you were hungry. Nobody would give you a job. You would be a social outcast. Societies don't condone murder, no matter whether they are democracies, monarchies or dictatorships.

In medieval England, even petty theft was a capital crime. However, the result was that there were massive numbers of pickpockets attending the public executions of their fellow thieves. There was more liquor consumption during prohibition than at any other time in American history. You're completely wrong about the length of time spent in jail for many drug offenders; the mandatory minimums mean that a lot of drug offenders get as much as 20 years in jail without parole. They go in as teenagers, come out as middle-aged men. For that matter, here's one with a life sentence for possession of cocaine.
http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/GDC/OffenderQuery/jsp/OffQryRedirector.jsp
GDC ID: 0000045839

Even though there is the chance that they will go to jail for the rest of their lives for transporting it, our government still manages to confiscate about 3 MILLION pounds of marijuana crossing the border every year. The cocaine business is a $100 billion industry. Fear of law enforcement doesn't stop people from committing crimes. Fear of crime raises law enforcement budgets, but the amount of vice crimes remains the same. If you really think that you can make any law work, look back at a thing called "Prohibition". Besides creating the mafia, the net result was that it created more crime while increasing the amount of alcohol consumption. Laws only work if the majority of the people believe in them and cooperate in helping enforce them. The current vice laws are similarly ignored, despite the severe legal consequences of getting caught.

Umm...you mean we don't have Socialist programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, AFDC? Our country is NOT pure capitalist. It has a socioeconomic structure that is more capitalistic than most, but it also has a lot of socialist wealth redistribution built in. You're thinking of the America before the Great Depression, when taxes were 1.5% and the government only accounted for about 4% of the economy, not the 45% of GDP that it accounts for today. The New Deal sort of ruined the ideal of a purely Capitalist society.

There is a difference in propaganda and real facts.

[Amnesiac]

It's a false analogy to compare gantz equipment with knowledge of how to evade the law.

The guy who covers his tracks is only hiding from the laws of society. The one with gantz tech is above the law, they couldn't arrest him even if all evidence accused him of being guilty.


This is also relevant to the discussion:
http://www.mindpowernews.com/5Psychological.htm

[georgemarvin]

It's a false analogy to compare gantz equipment with knowledge of how to evade the law.

The guy who covers his tracks is only hiding from the laws of society. The one with gantz tech is above the law, they couldn't arrest him even if all evidence accused him of being guilty.


They seemed to be doing a good job of arresting Nishi, if Gantz hadn't picked that particular instant to start a mission.

The very point is that the Gantz tech DOESN'T make anybody above the law, or above the moral code of their society. It may make it easier to escape a crime scene, due to the invisibility function, and make him more difficult to apprehend due to the bullet-proof force field, but it's really not much more difficult to apprehend a Gantzer in full armor than dealing with a gang of bank robbers with plain, old-fashioned machine guns, bullet proof vests and a hide-out. The Gantz guns work differently than standard military ordnance, but they aren't that much more powerful than a standard grenade or rocket launcher, and the suits' force field is better protection than standard military kevlar, but neither is so superior that they would make somebody invincible. Even the invisibility wouldn't be an insurmountable obstacle to a military force. Anything from infrared goggles to old-fashioned flour on the floor could be used to locate an invisible enemy.

But the fact that Nishi has better weaponry than the cops really doesn't matter, anyway. Society as a whole will prevent anybody from being "above the law", no matter how strong they are.

Let's look at what will happen to Nishi when he leaves the Gantz room. He will have to find a place to hide until the next mission. He won't even be able to come out of hiding long enough to scavenge for food. What happens if anybody sees him? They will call the cops. If he kills anybody in a crowd because they recognized him, the rest of the crowd will run in terror and the cops will be there in seconds, anyway. The cops will have learned that he is wearing something like bullet-proof armor, so they will have their heavy artillery ready. And he will be recognized anywhere he goes; his face will be all over the news. He can't go home; they will have his home staked out. They will remember the transfer, and have some theories about his escape. At least one will have thought about invisibility. If a door or window opens but nobody is there, they will know it was him. There will be the equivalent of FBI and National Guard personnel using infrared and UV surveillance to try to find him. He will be public enemy #1.

Nishi will have to just hole up somewhere or he will go to jail or die. And he won't be able to even tell the other Gantzers where he's hiding. If you were Nishi, how many Gantzers would you trust to not turn you in for killing 30 school kids? Katou would feel it was his duty. Cherry actively hunts down criminals. Kaze is a goody-two-shoes at heart. Reika may not be all that moral, but even she wouldn't condone killing kids. Even Kill Bill might have enough humanity left that she would turn him in. HS could care less, but he certainly wouldn't help him. Kei would be the only one who might let him crash without turning him in. And he would be afraid for Tae's safety, so even if he didn't turn Nishi in, he wouldn't be likely to help.

In other words, the Gantz equipment doesn't make Nishi above the law; he's in the same situation as any other murderer on the run from the law, just a little better armed than most.

[Amnesiac]

.

No.

Gantz equipment does make one above the law. Nishi didn't expect such a backlash like that with special forces, he was careless and created too much attention for himself.

First, he could have killed all the kids in stealth and exit the place, no one would even suspect him. And even if they did, they would be oblivious to his special abilities, including invisibility.

But even just bringing the sword would have completely changed the scenario, one swing would be enough to slice all the special forces guys in two.

[Revilenigma]

Let's look at what will happen to Nishi when he leaves the Gantz room. He will have to find a place to hide until the next mission. He won't even be able to come out of hiding long enough to scavenge for food.

he could always turn invisible and steal some food.

[JediKnight]

Not necessarily. Not if Gantz has anything to say. Let say he does get
captured, he can escape when he gets sent to another mission. Plus he
can avoid the police if he really tried. I see him going to Kurono's place to
stay. The police my say he's already dead, and leave it at that.

[Revilenigma]

kind of like the zoo guards try to catch Hoi-hoi after every mission.

[JediKnight]

Exactly like Hoi Hoi. Nishi can escape the police, especially with the weapons he has.

[JediKnight]

Nishi is not a criminal. His class tried to kill him, but failed and Nishi
killed them. But he spared that 1 girl who liked him who tried to
stop his classmates from hurting Nishi. Nishi killed that gang member,
that gang member desevered to die. What innocent person has Nishi
none. Nishi is like Dexter, he has to kill but kills the bad guys. Gantz
lets him be who he is without being turned into an bad guy. Nishi is
has problem and is not above law. But he didn't kill any innocents
either.

[georgemarvin]

Personally, I think that Nishi is not a criminal. His actions are not criminal. He has not broken any law. He may have killed people, but he is only doing it for self-defense.
Self-defense would apply if he had hit the kid who swung at him; it would have even applied if he had hit the kid hard enough to send him to the hospital. Shooting somebody who takes a swing at you doesn't qualify for that defense. And shooting the rest of the kids in the class certainly doesn't qualify. In the eyes of the law, and the community, he is just as bad as the perpetrators of the Columbine massacre, who were also teased and bullied by their fellow students. Nishi can't tell anybody about Gantz. If you were on Nishi's jury, would you believe that the kids threw him out of a 5th story window and he didn't get a scratch?


kind of like the zoo guards try to catch Hoi-hoi after every mission.

Not really. There is a HUGE difference between zoo security and a maximum security prison designed to hold the most vile dregs of humanity. There would be both guards and cameras watching them 24 hours a day; the Japanese equivalent of the FBI, CIA, military intelligence, etc. would already be hard at work analyzing how he escaped the school. They would have theories about how he escaped the school, and would implant a GPS tracer on him as soon as he was caught, just in case he managed another miraculous escape; they would track him to Gantz the first time he was called up for a mission, provided that Gantz didn't find and disable the tracer. If Gantz was his usual sloppy self, we would get to see what happens when a SWAT team comes into the Gantz house, hot and heavy. If Gantz disabled the tracer, they would still know more for the second time around. If they caught him a second time, they would run him through every kind of test and analysis known to man. The first thing they would find would be the bomb. They would either manage to remove the bomb, or it would go off and Nishi would be history. If he did manage to survive the removal of the bomb in his head, there would be the side problems that the Japanese military would have that piece of Gantz tech to play with. He would also be given sodium pentathol and maybe even tortured by the military to find out everything he knows. Gantz is sloppy, but he isn't an idiot. He may have had similar problems with players being incarcerated in the past. If so, he would probably decide that Nishi is too much of a liability and detonate the bomb as soon as the cops slapped the handcuffs on him. It would be totally incompetent to wait for the cops and military to go to work on him, and blow his top at the last minute.

The invisibility is a great trick, but there are evidently some severe limits to it; the fact is that nobody uses it for long. It probably only works for an hour or so at a time. Even if there are no limits, invisibility doesn't mean that you can't be detected. Even if Nishi could smuggle his suit into the jail, invisibility also doesn't open prison doors. It may help him steal a little food, but there is still the chance of somebody stumbling across him. He's still as solid as ever.

Even before he's caught, that trick could only be used to escape a dragnet once before the cops called the military for some infrared goggles. The vampires use contact lenses to detect the Gantz wavelength. It would have to be somewhere in the infrared or UV spectrum, and I'm sure the military would be happy to loan the local cops some goggles to assist in the manhunt.

In other words, Nishi had better just hole up like any other common criminal. He can't even hope they forget about him in a few years; the massacre of about 30 schoolkids isn't something anybody would forget about for a LONG time.