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Gold Knight
August 22, 2008, 05:00 AM
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Float like Butterflies - Sting like Bees!!!

Yo, guys, what's up? No, no, I'm not kidding here... I wouldn't do that to you, no way! You got it, I'm FINALLY returning to reviewing Naruto on a weekly basis again. :o Does anybody even remember me?

I know... it's been more than a year since my last weekly Ten Comments, which was 60 chapters ago! Geez. Hopefully people who used to enjoy my reviews will forgive me for taking such an extended break. I probably would have resumed them at some point, except the impossible happened - noes! - I actually lost interest in Naruto for a while there. I wasn't even thinking about it at all! Well, but good news - lately my interest has been revived again and I have been finding more time for "ninja musings" so, I'm back. :)

And... I don't know about you guys, but I'm kinda ready and rarin' to get started, so I'm going to end the intro and get this thing going. Oh, and after you're done reading, don't forget to let me know your thoughts, too.

(Disclaimer: I may not have time to reply to every post, but I do read them all and will try my best to get back to ya. Nya~ ;) )

Oh, and this review wouldn't be complete without thanking the ones who got us the chapter this week. So, much gratitude to Sleepy Fans for their early scanlation. Thanks guys! Because of the quality of your work, too, I was able to get a speedy review out myself.


* * * Gold Knight's Ten Comments on Naruto Chapter 413: Crash! * * *

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YOU READY FOR A WHOOPIN'!?!?

1. Take Your Battle Stances!! We start off where we left off last chapter, still reading about Sasuke's battle with the eccentric host of the Eight-Tails. We had just witnessed the quirky abilities of the jinchuuriki as he demonstrated his his seven-sword-wielding style. A bit of a rip-off of Zoro of One Piece fame and his three-sword style, but then I suppose it's no secret that Kishimoto and Oda are long-time friends, so it may have actually been by design.

We also saw that Hachibi's host was able to control the flow of his chakra into his swords, and so was able to efficiently block even the penetrating strike of Sasuke's Kusanagi blade. The sword that could cut through anything had just hit an impenetrable object for the first time.

Well. That should have pretty much hinted right there and then that the Hachibi's host was able to demonstrate a stunning display of control over his own chakra, and the beast inside himself.

In fact, Kishimoto didn't even keep the suspense up any more. In the second page - immediately following his upbeat, gung-ho war cry and imitation of a popular Japanese musician - we witnessed Hachibi's host taking on a shroud of his own, the same one as Naruto's... except that you can see in the picture above that the "bubbles" of the chakra within his aura was rapidly moving and condensing to more of an energetic, frantic pace, right above his clenched fist.

Even Naruto still hadn't shown that type of chakra manipulation - he simply let his aura shimmer around himself and take its devilish form, instead. Whereas I believe the Kyuubi had more control of Naruto at the time, here we see the jinchuuriki clearly calling the shots.

Sasuke was in for a fight here, make no bones about it.


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Lessee.. how did I beat Naruto that one time? Oh yeah... MY GENIUS!
(MS and Curse Seal didn't hurt, either.)

2. Déjà Vu! Ah, But Wait! As we saw Sasuke clearly remembering his battle with Naruto in his one-tailed form, and recalling that this fight with the Hachibi host was the "same thing," and "just like before," I couldn't help but think that he was so wrong, and so clearly underestimating the jinchuuriki.

It was as though he was underestimating Naruto all over again.

After all, since that fight, Naruto himself had developed to the point where within his fox shroud, he was able to grow more tails than just one, and become even more deadly and dangerous. As Jiraiya and Orochimaru both learned to the mutual risk of their own well-doing!

Here we see Hachibi's host immediately growing ALL of his eight tails, and not even allow his personal demon to take control of any of his personality at all (well - I'm assuming.)

Once again, just a display of immense power and discipline that we may one day get to see Naruto invoke himself.


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Oh, a brotherly rivalry? Oh hey, where have we heard that one before...? >_>

3. More Thoughts, Please. In some ways, I think we gather more information from the unspoken thoughts of "minor characters" of Naruto than we would from any exchange of words they would with in battle with any of the main characters. We get more intriguing insights into the characters' personalities and their behavior that way.

For example, were we get just a little glimpse at what the Hachibi's host thoughts when Sasuke dodged his attack - that it was the first time anybody had done that since his own brother did it. We get a sense of what his background may have been like, how he was raised, and his possible status within the country, just from that.

We learn that he did have a family of some kind - at least a brother. He seemed to have a clan loyal to him as well, from how difficult it was for Taka to interrogate other local ninjas for information about him. So, was the brother a prominent citizen of the Cloud Country? Was the Hachibi's host a member of a prestigious clan? Maybe the same as even the Kage? After all, Sunagakure decided to seal their bijuu into one of their "princes" - the son of their own Kage, Gaara.

These are just some of the thoughts racing through my mind just from this one panel... I thought I'd just share. :p


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Look what I found! BOOYAH!

4. Mass Destruction, Baby! As soon as the jinchuuriki re-oriented himself on attacking the wounded Juugo as well as Karin and Suigetsu, and seemed to grin evilly, I suddenly wondered about this guy a bit more.

We all know that jinchuuriki are "created" to be the protectors of their own respective countries - but in some respects, they may be considered WMDs themselves - weapons of mass destruction. That's what Sunagakure had in mind for Gaara. No, it may not be what Minato had intended for Naruto, but he still hoped that his son would be Konohagakure's greatest hero as well, especially being raised under Sandaime's watchful gaze.

Of course, we don't know everything about all the jinchuuriki (which I think is terribly unfortunate) but I'd say not all jinchuuriki probably accepted their fates, and may have even rejected them at times. The old jinchuuriki that Kisame defeated, for example, seemed more an aged hermit than a ninja. Did that old man decide to forfeit civilization altogether and try to live on his own, in peace?

Gaara came very close to being the total opposite of that, as he become increasingly rebellious to his own village in his belief that his existence was the only one that mattered - before, of course, Naruto convinced him otherwise.

Hachibi's host seems very eager to be in battle, though. He was actually looking pleased at the notion that he may be able to crush some vulnerable people who might not be able to fight back. In that sense, he almost seems a monster himself. But by the same token, could it be that he just merely accepted his "fate" to be a walking weapon - and even started to learn how to enjoy it?


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HANG TIIIIIIIGHT! Oops... forgot Suigetsu... *cough*

5. Not Out for the Count!? People seemed peeved at the notion that Juugo was able to get up and able to get Karin (if not Suigetsu, lol) and himself to safety. How was he able to get up after taking such a beating from the host of the Hachibi, and he was apparently out for the count?

Well... why so upset? I mean, I've watched enough boxing matches to know that some people are never as down and out of it as they may seem to be sometimes. Even a person with high endurance and stamina can be knocked out briefly. I mean, how times have we seen Rocky where he seemed to be out of it - but kept getting up and kept battling back?

I know it's a funny analogy to make, but all I'm saying is I can see it happening. Especially from somebody who seems to have a very stout ability - Juugo does have the "cursed seal," after all, which seems to be able to protect his body from some of the most vicious attacks. As we saw here.

Juugo may have just been unprepared for Hachibi's speed and strength a few chapters ago - and had been KO'ed by a single punch. Who knows? We didn't get to see it happen.


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Whoa? Careful Sasuke... They may think you actually care!

6. Not a Tin Man at Heart after all...!? How about that.

I was momentarily confused by Sasuke's orders to Karin at first, actually. You know, I mean, how does Karin keeping track of the Hachibi's movements exactly help Sasuke himself survive that battle? After all, Sasuke had his own Sharingan to keep himself out of harm's way.

Then I realized... no, it wasn't that. Sasuke was simply telling Karin, Juugo, and Suigetsu all to be more careful. That they were in danger themselves, and that they had to be aware of the Hachibi so that they didn't get killed by some sudden strike.

So much for the thought that he didn't care a thing about anybody else but himself. Arrogant he may be, but - sometimes surprisingly - he's still got a heart.


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Damn... Owned. >_>

7. Well, Surprise, Surprise...! Well, Kishimoto actually gave us all what we wanted this time.

Even some of the most hardcore Sasuke fans I knew seemed to becoming a bit irritated with the boy's attitude in recent chapters - and also his good luck of always getting out of a rough battle on tops.

Sure, he had been bloodied before plenty of times - his battle with Deidara left him completely exhausted, and his confrontation with Itachi certainly wasn't a piece of cake, either. But in both situations, he came out the survivor. Despite the massacre of his family, was he actually born with a golden spoon in his mouth when it came to winning a fight?

But no! For once... for ONCE... Sasuke was unquestioningly defeated! Knocked out silly!

So much for Tobi's prediction.

It had been that, and how I felt like Kishimoto had seemed to want Sasuke to always come out of every battle winning, that I thought Sasuke would actually be victorious in this battle, despite my hopes that he'd be handed a LITTLE humble pie, at least.

But he just got delivered a huuuuge serving of humble pie instead. Damn!

I'd like to call attention to the wonderful timing of the sequential art too here. And the writing. Remember that people who don't read the spoilers would naturally be expecting Sasuke to get a finishing blow on Hachibi, somehow, here. He had been so successful so far, after all, and nothing seemed to be going to change that. They're reading the chapter, thinking that all along.

Then just as it seemed like Sasuke's won, relying on his old trusty Sharingan again...

BAM!

He's out like a light! :D


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For a "cursed" seal, it sure is useful.

8. Juugo to the Rescue Again. Ugh, I hope this doesn't mean Sasuke is going to get some kind of Cursed Seal back on him again... I mean, Itachi did go to all that trouble of getting rid of it for him! XD

I guess that's all I had to say about that. Other than the fact that it seems that Juugo is actually accompanying Sasuke not for himself but more out of a sense of making sure that Kimimaro didn't just sacrifice himself for nothing.

I guess Kimimaro and Juugo were closer friends than we thought.

Oh, and one more thing. I used to think Juugo always had some trouble with controlling his cursed seal all the time. But it almost seems like he's in complete control of it 90% of the time.

Must be only an occasional - maybe even infrequent - rage that he's frightened of, when he gets emotionally upset. I'm wondering if Juugo won't end up saving them all from Hachibi, because if things don't improve soon, he's certainly going to get peeved!


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Uh-oh... his skin's flying off, that can't be good...

9. Wha!?? Explained So Quickly!? Gosh, didn't expect that. In case you missed it, there was a lot of immediate theories on how exactly Sasuke's Sharingan was defeated by the Hachibi host, when it was revealed in the Spoilers thread this week.

For example... one person initially believed that it was because the Hachibi jinchuuriki was blind, before somebody else reminded him that he had just jogged down his poem on a notepad for future reference. He'd need eyes for that to be useful.

Then one person on the forums thought that it was because the Hachibi had such control over his bijuu, that he would naturally have mental defenses up against any genjutsu. Another person here mentioned that it might have been because the Hachibi host had such inexhaustible chakra, that he was able to break it himself.

Turns out that the host needed its bijuu to help snap him out of it. In this case, it seems the jinchuuriki actually ordered it to break the illusion.

Funny how just how much conversation and speculation can come out of such a question when the answer is waiting right there... in the chapter itself!

I'd thought this was going to be one of the hardest questions to answer, but I guess there's no need to anymore now. But I have to mention that this just gave Naruto an incredible out for any possible confrontation he may have with Sasuke again in the future - as far as the Sharingan is concerned.

As bad as Naruto may be against protecting himself from genjutsu, he does have the means to defeat the Sharingan - whenever he does agree to work with the Kyuubi again. Or control him - either way. (Hopefully the latter, I don't think the Kyuubi is very... benevolent, anyway.)


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And plz do a good job of it! 'CAUSE I'M DAMN SCARY SCARY, yo!

10. Big, Bad, and Ugly!? So that's what the Eight-Tails looks like, huh? Ugly. But I wouldn't tell that to his face, of course... though I doubt he'd care!

A wooden, muscular ox with eight octopus tentacles.

I like it. For some reason I've liked how all Kishimoto's bijuus has looked so far. I mean, yes, I know the Kyuubi and the Nibi look very much like their supposed animal counterparts, but all the others seem to have some mix of animal resemblances. The Sanbi, for example, looked more like a mix between a shark and a turtle. And now the Hachibi. It's a good move on Kishimoto's part since we had already seen enough snakes (a la Orochimaru).

Kishimoto's imaginative art really makes me wish we had seen all the others, though.

Anyway, one last thing I wanted to mention here - hang on guys, not done yet, sorry. Ok, so Sasuke was taken down by a jinchuuriki, when it seemed like all the Akatsuki seemed to have no problem with the other bijuus. Keep in mind a few things, though.

1. Although Gaara seemed to be making some improvement with his relationship with the Shukaku, he still only relied on his sand abilities most of the time against Deidara.
2. The Sanbi seemed like a nearly mindless being.
3. Hidan was able to take lethal shots and used it against Yugito without dire consequences for himself.
4. The Five-Tails that Kisame took down seemed old, and probably out of practice. (Though Kisame did mention that it was still a bitch to take him down.)

The Hachibi jinchuuriki (wish we knew his name) seemed the MOST in control of his bijuu, though. Look at him here. Not even Yugito - who was from the same country and seemingly accomplished herself - was able to manifest her bijuu outside of its chakra form.

Ah, but what about Gaara? But no, that wasn't really Gaara... that was Shukaku, taking control mostly. Just like the Kyuubi when Naruto seems to resemble him more.

So keep in mind all that. Sasuke may have just gone up against potentially the dangerous jinchuuriki of them all. One that knows what he's doing - and who's in total control.

Ouch!!!

RATING: 4 of 5 - I was really pleased by the chapter overall, for the surprise twist that I wasn't expecting. That is, Sasuke actually lost. And whenever a chapter makes it easy for me to make ten comments like it, it'll usually get a 4 at least. The only reason it didn't get a 5 was because the chapter felt too short, which has been happening quite a lot lately, unfortunately.

PREDICTIONS: No idea, really. That's something I'm quite pleased by though. I like being curious about what exactly the hell will happen next. But I'm sure we'll probably get a cutscene to what Naruto's been up to... it's been a while now.

Well, that's it, hoped you guys enjoyed. :) I'll be back next week... and the week after... promise! For now though let me know what you thought of the chapter!


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Comment! Or bite me!

One last quick comment here... that has to be one of the more freaky things I've seen in all the series. >_>

Starzen
August 22, 2008, 06:07 AM
Great review and now we know why only the ems has the power to control kyuubi, thanks to this chapter we now know how terrifying madara will be and sasuke might start considering taking Itachis and madaras advice about getting stronger. Lets hope kishi wont switch to naruto next week and leave us hanging, I truly enjoyed your review and the chapter.

Shaunlim
August 22, 2008, 06:20 AM
Great review as always GK and welcome back. Always enjoyed reading your reviews. One thing I would like to ask your opinion though, what do you think is the reason for Sasuke's action of turning his sharingan on and off during the fight.

CupofDice
August 22, 2008, 06:29 AM
Great review! Good to see you back. XD

I still had doubts that Hachibi would win, that Kishi would find some way to have him defeat Hachibi, but I guess Kishi really wanted to show us that he could deal Sasuke a good dose of reality. This whole fight sort of reminds me of the three Sannin and their fight against Hanzo. A group of young powerful ninjas who are probably amazed by their own powers taking on someone who is simply so much more fundamentally powerful than they are. Either way Hachibi is a great example of what Naruto can be, someone in full control of their bijuu. I also loved that Sasuke's genjutsu didn't work on Hachibi. It makes perfect sense since all you need is a partner to stop your chakra flow, and who is a more powerful partner than a bijuu? It is so damn good to see a Jinchuuruki who can handle his own against Akatsuki. I think it is like you said, that the other Jinchuurukis used their powers differently. The old hermit seemed to have a fusion jutsu, and we know Gaara had a lot of jutsus. Hachibi though uses it the way Jiraiya, the Toads, and soon to be Naruto uses Senjutsu. Not focusing on a multitude of jutsus, but instead using it to become faster, and stronger than anyone, and only using a few jutsu. I definitely think Hachibi and Naruto will meet somehow now, and Hachibi will become somewhat of a teacher to Naruto (he reminds me a lot of Jiraiya), and finally teach him to control the Kyuubi.

Thanks for your review Gold Knight.

The Adamant Dragon
August 22, 2008, 09:08 AM
Its Been one Year since your last review, Geez time passes by so Quick... anyhow, its Good have You back.


Looks like My prediction earlier in your thread about the reason why The Hachibi could've Released his true Form came to be true... I'm starting to think that I Psychic... Seriously.


Great GK! I'm lookin forward to it.
Looking at the spoilers and the Hachibi's Release form, I couldn't help but be more exited. Though I feel somewhat desapointed that he had to use his Trump-Card so early in the fight... He was already winning against Takka by only using Hand-to-Hand combat style. As I stated in one of my post in the spoiler discussion, Its possible that he had to Release his form because Sasuke was able to emprison him in his Genjutsu. <--- Thus strenghning the fact that he could've used that Release's Huge power to break free of the Genjutsu. Since its known that to break free of the Sharigan's Genjutsu, one must release a great amount of chakra ( As Jiraya said once to Naruto ).

Hachibi is on of the coolest caracters introduced in the manga since Kimimaru and Garra IMHO, So I hope he stays for a long time

Looking forward to see the whole thing and ofcourse your Review on it :thumbs

To say the truth, I didn't expect Sasuke to suffer such an Overwhelming Defeat... His power and strengh are worlds apart and petty compared to Hachibi's. Since the Very beginning he's Proven to us that he's got power to spare, by handleing team Takka by himself and quite easily... <--- Wich would be hard for almost evey S-Class Ninja Given that team's Variety of Abilities.

And it looks like Kishi Wants to cut this Fight Short, wich is good, and Plus, there's no point to Drag it too long, Since Pain has yet to set Foot on konoha. This what I Guess after the outcome of Sasuke's Battle, Every Naruto readers are waitting for.

After reading this Chapter and wittnessing what Hachibi can Do with his tailed beast... I feel down a bit. 'Cause I Feel like Kishi has been holding Naruto's obvious potential and strengh at bay... Yes, its True he's stilll young... But I feel like kishi could've made Naruto+Kyubbi Discussions more Casual, other than just seeing the kyubbi when he Hands him some chakra... But knowing him, he's got big surprise for us at the end. Let's hope that the result of his training would be convenient. <--- It could be what he's planning to do after the Senju Training. Hachibi may have just been a Hint to show us what Naruto will be able to accomplish later on.


Good Review GK.

carlhanz
August 22, 2008, 09:33 AM
pretty good review, and also like you i hope to see the outcome of naruto's training. Also I think is going to be a hell of a ride to beat the hachibi

kaylee
August 22, 2008, 10:22 AM
Great review, GK, as always. :glomp

You found a lot more to say about this chapter than I expected, that's for sure, but definitely brought up some good points to think about. :amuse



For example, were we get just a little glimpse at what the Hachibi's host thoughts when Sasuke dodged his attack - that it was the first time anybody had done that since his own brother did it. We get a sense of what his background may have been like, how he was raised, and his possible status within the country, just from that.

The "brother" comment was intriguing to me as well. I'll admit I didn't get all that from that simple comment, but it made me think that Kishi had plans to expand the Hachibi's background a bit, which I wasn't expecting.

At the beginning of the fight, I'd expected him to just be more of a throw-away character and, well, I can't say I'm all that interested in him even now, but maybe learning more about him will add... something.

How would you like to see his role develop, if at all?


So much for the thought that he didn't care a thing about anybody else but himself. Arrogant he may be, but - sometimes surprisingly - he's still got a heart.

Could be. Then again, he could've just been warning Karin and Juugo to look out so that they'd be able to keep him alive. I'm sure it'd be a real pain for him to locate more teammates willing and able to transfer their chakra into him, or whatever the hell it was that they were attempting to do this chapter. :oh


Even some of the most hardcore Sasuke fans I knew seemed to becoming a bit irritated with the boy's attitude in recent chapters

Really? To whom might you be referring? :oh


But no! For once... for ONCE... Sasuke was unquestioningly defeated! Knocked out silly!

I don't know... yeah, he was knocked out, but the battle's not over, is it? I mean, it's a pretty common device for the "hero" to be knocked down, supposedly out for the count, only to get back up, struggling to win.

Problem is, usually in that scenario, I'd be cheering for the hero, but in this case, I just can't bring myself to care about the outcome to this fight one way or the other. Why are they fighting again? Because Sasuke wants Madara's help? Because he wants the power of one of the bijuu? I can't root for Sasuke, and Hachibi is too shallow a character to care about, which is making it hard for me to get invested in this fight.



Other than the fact that it seems that Juugo is actually accompanying Sasuke not for himself but more out of a sense of making sure that Kimimaro didn't just sacrifice himself for nothing.

I guess Kimimaro and Juugo were closer friends than we thought.

Yeah, I guess they must've been. I found it funny that Kishi felt the need to remind us of that fact, since otherwise, it would've been totally unclear as to why Juugo was helping Sasuke at all. Juugo's another character whose motivations I think could've been developed better.

Of the newer characters, Juugo, Karin, and the Hachibi host all seem to be very shallow to me. Suigetsu's the only one who has the potential to be intriguing.

Saifi
August 22, 2008, 03:58 PM
hmm.... you are back..... and u say you will stay, but I donno GK, i got all attached to ur weekly reviews and then u just left, and now u are back pretending all is the same , i donno if i am ready for that kind of uncertain relationship again :P

well well see how long you keep your word.
----------------------------------------------------

Okay drama aside ... welcome back , thx for stealing all other reviewers thunder and all as well. -__- (ok now i am done) well i gotta say good review as always and and.... as always i got disagreements , well on some parts.but then again thats why i liked ur reviews gave me lots of material to gab about!

1)

I dont know if its an artistic technique that would indicate 8 tails might (the bubbles above the fist thing) but it seems to me that its just how it appears from that angle and that the bubbles are actually in the tails which are forming behind him and not above his fist.

2)

When u say "we see Hachibi's host immediately growing ALL of his eight tails.." i completely fail to see the 8 tails at that point in the manga , the most i can see are .... 3

as u can see in this picture
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/04/ there are 2 tail look alikes made by the chakra shroud on the rope belt and 1 from the scarf.

now i agree that 8 tails still showed much more composure/control with 3 tails than Naruto ever did , but saying that he had a chakra shroud of 8 tails while keeping his human form and control/composure at this point is kinda giving him too much props against naruto! but your base point that his control is better than naruto and maybe one day naruto can emulate is still solid, so no worries. Just keeping u on ur toes ;)'

3)

I dont know if he is nobility or not ,but it does seem that he was devoid of human/villager interaction or it could be that his brother kept him from being alone and different from all others and maybe thats why he is not messed up like most other jinchurikis , who have faced an agressive behavior from the villagers or maybe this village just respects power and doesnt look down upon jins, which is what konoha should have done , but ooh well.

4)

I wouldnt call him a monster in terms of being evil, i mean he is going 4 vs 1 and even if those guys were vulnerable they were still fighting him and healing his opponent so him taking them out isnt very coldhearted and "evil", i mean the guy has to protect himself and hes a ninja anyway , so killing people should not be a big deal to him , esp when its in self defense( no matter how minute the threat may be >_>) now you should call him a monster when it comes to his vast power or the fact that he has a monster inside him , but i felt that the "evil" remark was kind of unjust even if hes fighting against the "main character" of the manga.

5)

I am with u on this one , i think out of the entire group if anyone could be expected to get back up it would be juggo, esp since he has the cs and all, and its not like he actually launched an attack but he too is in a live or die situation and it makes sense that he wouldn't stay down , even if it was next to impossible to get up, as kenshin says the will to survive is greater than any other power.

but i still say that if sauske is to get his CS then juugo needs to die !

6)

Yes sauske has a heart , and maybe he does care about his nakama , but i have also read tons of arguments in the discussion thread etc that say that he knows that without these guys he would have been dead meat , not once but twice, so even tho his concern for them might be selfless, it also might be completely selfish cause he knows that if they fall hes fuxed !

i donno i hate the guy and dont want to give him any breaks, ill give hiom that when he thanked karin after she saved her and when suigetsu was urging him on to "take em both out" that he might have genuinely felt for them but we also know that when it was a choice between his pride and his feelings for his friends.(vote Naruto vs sauske) it was his pride that left naruto with a hole in his shoulder, i mean he may have regretted it later but i believe when push comes to shove everyone is expendable to sauske!

because to be honest hes just not the same sauske that was willing to die protecting naruto, then he wasn't poisoned by orochimaru's thoughts and was under kakashi's wing, his choices since then haven't exactly been the right ones.

(phew!.. damn i get off on that subject , gomen for the long rant)

7)

i donno GK as much as i dont want to methinks that you are counting them chickies b4 they hatch, the fight is not over and even though there should be no logical way for kishi to give sauske the win, the fact that madara guaranteed his victory keeps me in that state when i am braced for the shock of another lame plot no jutsu which will definately give sauske the edge / fight ! i donno its just a bad feeling, right now i am open to compromises where other team hebi members die to create a chance a victory , or the Mad., man himself comes down and keeps his guarantee!


but all that aside the PWNAGE was AWESOME! and probably made the chapter for me even if the rest had been trash !

8)

I am totally with you on this one too What the fux happened to juugo and his murdering rage /frenzy , i mean true it probably was better that he kep his head about himself and helped sauske get out of more than one tough spots, which a berserker couldnt , but i also think that going berserk now would be an utter waste of energy because well look at the behemoth he has to fight O_o!

9)

Ya i liked that kishi decided to explain it rather than leaviung it as another open end , esp since it allows me to jump on the bandwagon of people who now se ethat naruto can counter genjutsu's effectively using this method and doesnt necessarily have to be instantly WTF pawned by sauske's cheat code later. and i am also jumping on the bandwagon that yamato is messed up in making naruto discard kyuubi, sure he needs his non kyubbi strength to be developed as well , but just shutting off kyubbi was a bad decision!

Also i dont think the kyubbi has been that agressive and evil towards naruto , i mean thelast we saw it ,it actually was treating naruto like somebody and not calling him a brat or whatever , he said lets show him "our power" (refering to go against sauske) but for a wily fox that was (we now know) summoned to destroy (which is its nature) he has actually been pretty helpful and if hes too powerful for naruto to handle atm its not really its fault is it? so ya i am saying i like the QB , hes my pal , and hes kept naruto alive when he would have died otherwise.

10 )

Phew finally (this is tiring) umm... u know what i forgot what i was gonna say and reading it again i dont see anything ineedto elaborate /komment on, i see u have covered most of whats to be said , so ya good review , good chapter and i guess welcome back ! (for now).

Ooh ya ..... my prediction or rather hope , is that we get to see the senju Rashemon, i think kusachu or kaylee or someone brought em up ( srry if i credited someone else instead of you, whoever u are) cause A it would make sense that sauske would remember the summon, B its needed and C then we will have a gauge to measure exactly how strong hachi's attacks will be so thats what i want to happen !
[hr]

Great review as always GK and welcome back. Always enjoyed reading your reviews. One thing I would like to ask your opinion though, what do you think is the reason for Sasuke's action of turning his sharingan on and off during the fight.

ok i know the Q is directed towards GK but i feltthe need to answer so here it is.... i think he knows that he needs to conserve every ounce of energy he can , esp since he is handling MS which is something new and more stressful to his body and eyes.


Great review! Good to see you back. XD
I still had doubts that Hachibi would win,..... ....and Hachibi will become somewhat of a teacher to Naruto (he reminds me a lot of Jiraiya), and finally teach him to control the Kyuubi.

Thanks for your review Gold Knight.

okay ....uhhh... 1st another reminder that the fight is not over ,it should be , but its not ! so lets hold up on the celebrations, i dont have my beer yet anyway.

2nd wh...why does hachi bee have to be compared to j man ? i mean i like the dude but you are asking him to fill huge shoes, and also i dont know of any alliance between the cloud (right ?) and konoha so why would he teach naruto anything and i mean seriously does it seem to u that hachi is the teacher type?

i personally hope that never happens and will keep faith that it wont !



To say the truth, I didn't expect Sasuke to suffer such an Overwhelming Defeat...


.....And it looks like Kishi Wants to cut this Fight Short, wich is good, and Plus,....


ya refer to above where its too early to call.



After reading this Chapter and wittnessing what Hachibi can Do with his tailed beast... I feel down a bit. 'Cause I Feel like Kishi has been holding Naruto's obvious potential and strengh at bay... Yes, its True he's stilll young... But I feel like kishi could've made Naruto+Kyubbi Discussions more Casual, other than just seeing the kyubbi when he Hands him some chakra... But knowing him, he's got big surprise for us at the end. Let's hope that the result of his training would be convenient. <--- It could be what he's planning to do after the Senju Training. Hachibi may have just been a Hint to show us what Naruto will be able to accomplish later on.



ya sadly it seems that kishi is making it a point for naruto to remain an underdog for as long as possible with monstrous potential , i mean i get that this is what the manga is all about but it also has the drawback that the main character is alsways underdeveloped cause well , otherwise he wouldnt be an underdog anymore.




The "brother" comment was intriguing to me as well. I'll admit I didn't get all that from that simple comment, but it made me think that Kishi had plans to expand the Hachibi's background a bit, which I wasn't expecting.

At the beginning of the fight, I'd expected him to just be more of a throw-away character and, well, I can't say I'm all that interested in him even now, but maybe learning more about him will add... something.


well i see this whole brother business as something that kishi purposely leaves as loose ends that he can build on if he ever hits a road block but not really significant to the story itself, but hey thats just my opinion



Could be. Then again, he could've just been warning Karin and Juugo to look out so that they'd be able to keep him alive. I'm sure it'd be a real pain for him to locate more teammates willing and able to transfer their chakra into him, or whatever the hell it was that they were attempting to do this chapter. :oh


ya kinda what i was thinking



I don't know... yeah, he was knocked out, but the battle's not over, is it? I mean, it's a pretty common device for the "hero" to be knocked down, supposedly out for the count, only to get back up, struggling to win.

Problem is, usually in that scenario, I'd be cheering for the hero, but in this case, I just can't ...

well i agree that the fat lady has yet to sing but who exactly is the "hero" here? i am curious to who it is 4 you.



Yeah, I guess they must've been. I found it funny that Kishi felt the need to remind us of that fact, since otherwise, it would've been totally unclear as to why Juugo was helping Sasuke at all. Juugo's another character whose motivations I think could've been developed better.

Of the newer characters, Juugo, Karin, and the Hachibi host all seem to be very shallow to me. Suigetsu's the only one who has the potential to be intriguing.



i agreez !

Marq
August 22, 2008, 04:42 PM
Welcome back GK, it's good to see you are doing reviews again. I've always enjoyed your reviews, and this was just a great one as well.. I admit this chatper is very good.. I just wonder how the next one will be though?..

Taka looks screwed.

kaylee
August 22, 2008, 06:45 PM
well i agree that the fat lady has yet to sing but who exactly is the "hero" here?

That's exactly my point. There's no clear hero, no one to "root" for, and I think that's what's causing my total lack of interest in this fight. Hachibi can't be the hero because we just met the guy, know nothing about him, and isn't that compelling a character. On the other hand, there's no point in rooting against him for the same reasons.

So does that make Sasuke the hero? Well, is there anyone left reading Naruto who doesn't want to see Sasuke get his ass kicked? I could see myself rooting for Sasuke though if there was a good reason for the fight. But, there just isn't. I just hope Kishi wraps it up quickly, one way or the other.

IchigoSoul
August 22, 2008, 07:46 PM
Well, i had a sudden thought about karin's ability. Although this is a little sick but i think Karin's healing powers get more powerful when you bite her in different places. When sasuke was injured the first time, Karin only let him bit her arm but the second injury was much more serious and fatal hence, we could see karin "exposing" so i have a feeling that karin most powerful effect would be biting the "groin" area.=P No offense. Just a random thought.

Gold Knight
August 22, 2008, 10:21 PM
I really appreciate all the responses!

However, I am INCREDIBLY tired right now (I need more sleep) so I hope you guys will forgive me if I wait until Monday at least to answer everything.

But keep 'em coming.

:)
[hr]
Okay, twist my arm... haha, decided to answer the first 3 posts now anyway since they were short. Saifi's post is definitely waiting until Monday, though. XD


Great review and now we know why only the ems has the power to control kyuubi, thanks to this chapter we now know how terrifying madara will be and sasuke might start considering taking Itachis and madaras advice about getting stronger. Lets hope kishi wont switch to naruto next week and leave us hanging, I truly enjoyed your review and the chapter.

Thanks a lot Starzen, but I don't understand actually. How do we now know why only the EMS has the power to control Kyuubi? It seemed like to me that Sasuke did a good job of forcing the Kyuubi to withdraw within Naruto's mind, when he had just his ordinary Sharingan.

In fact, wouldn't the reverse be true even if Sasuke found a way to control the Kyuubi with his genjutsu, wouldn't Naruto be able to "snap" Kyuubi out of it? Of course maybe there's the problem: Naruto is not yet the dominant personality of the two within that body, when he activates that "red chakra" anyway.


Great review as always GK and welcome back. Always enjoyed reading your reviews. One thing I would like to ask your opinion though, what do you think is the reason for Sasuke's action of turning his sharingan on and off during the fight.

Thanks Shaulim :)

Well, I'm not surprised he does that. :/ He's starting to use it so much in every battle that it's like his favorite weapon now, almost. Until something stops it, why stop using it? He was able to use his MS to avoid the host's initial devastating "shroud" attack. This time, though, he paid the price for not being more innovative at the end.

I was actually surprised though. I'm quite sure that Itachi would have created at least a clone to take the damage in case something didn't work the way he thought it would. Sasuke hasn't quite gotten to the point where he does that as much, although he did use it against Itachi. But this time he might have learned his lesson and may be using clones far more often.


Great review! Good to see you back. XD

Thanks CupofDice, you're one of my favorite readers so I'm glad you're still around :D


I still had doubts that Hachibi would win, that Kishi would find some way to have him defeat Hachibi, but I guess Kishi really wanted to show us that he could deal Sasuke a good dose of reality. This whole fight sort of reminds me of the three Sannin and their fight against Hanzo. A group of young powerful ninjas who are probably amazed by their own powers taking on someone who is simply so much more fundamentally powerful than they are. Either way Hachibi is a great example of what Naruto can be, someone in full control of their bijuu. I also loved that Sasuke's genjutsu didn't work on Hachibi. It makes perfect sense since all you need is a partner to stop your chakra flow, and who is a more powerful partner than a bijuu? It is so damn good to see a Jinchuuruki who can handle his own against Akatsuki. I think it is like you said, that the other Jinchuurukis used their powers differently. The old hermit seemed to have a fusion jutsu, and we know Gaara had a lot of jutsus. Hachibi though uses it the way Jiraiya, the Toads, and soon to be Naruto uses Senjutsu. Not focusing on a multitude of jutsus, but instead using it to become faster, and stronger than anyone, and only using a few jutsu. I definitely think Hachibi and Naruto will meet somehow now, and Hachibi will become somewhat of a teacher to Naruto (he reminds me a lot of Jiraiya), and finally teach him to control the Kyuubi.

Thanks for your review Gold Knight.

You're very welcome, thanks for your input too. I'd absolutely love it if Hachibi and Naruto will meet down the line, but at this point I'm actually thinking that Naruto wouldn't like Hachibi's host too much. But that could make the relationship more dynamic.

^^
[hr]
Oh, and Saifi, when I start something like reviewing I usually stay with it for a long while. One of the reasons I didn't do too many weekly reviews for such an extended period was because I knew I'd disappoint too many people if I didn't keep it up even if I had posted one. That's why I started to do volume reviews instead, and didn't really do them weekly following Chapter 400, even though my interest had already been perked by then.

Anyway, I'll try my best to keep it going. ^^;

elmo11
August 23, 2008, 01:43 AM
he's back!! (3, gud review GK

jodi
August 23, 2008, 06:56 AM
I was wondering about Karin and her scars...

all those scars... was it Sasuke?
Does she have scars even on her bubbies?
weirdo.
then again, Sasuke may not be gay as lot of people think he is hehe

hills100
August 23, 2008, 07:04 AM
great review.

Helltroll
August 23, 2008, 07:23 AM
Great to see you back, GK! Nice review and a lot of good points in it. See you again here next week ;)

The Flash
August 23, 2008, 10:51 AM
YEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!!! A lineup of excellent reviews from not only Pate, but the returning GK!

neomaster121
August 23, 2008, 11:05 AM
its great to see you back

man i remember reading your reviews when i first joined mangahelpers

great review as always ^__^

Twar
August 23, 2008, 04:27 PM
Yeah! Finally, good to have the Comments back. I remember I used to lurk-read them each week and then I lost interest in the manga for a while as well and now I'm back like you.

Well, you discussed the chapter quite well, but the one thing that intrigues me is Karin's past. Those are apparently bite marks.

Bite marks.

Yeah. I see a tragic past here. But who knows.

In any case, good job, GK!

◆ T.D.A ◆
August 23, 2008, 04:53 PM
Yeah! Finally, good to have the Comments back. I remember I used to lurk-read them each week and then I lost interest in the manga for a while as well and now I'm back like you.

Well, you discussed the chapter quite well, but the one thing that intrigues me is Karin's past. Those are apparently bite marks.

Bite marks.

Yeah. I see a tragic past here. But who knows.

In any case, good job, GK!

They aren't bite marks, they shouldn't be round if they were, and just imagine what position karin and the biter would have to be to get those round "bite" marks in the chest.

ophidial
August 24, 2008, 04:01 AM
wow cool, your back hopefully for quite awhile, though the other
members were doing a great job in your stead. I did miss you structure
though. There are a couple things i would i would like to bounce out there though
the first is the hachibi's enjoyment of the battle was to me influenced by the
shroud as the kyuubi's made naruto more agressive, i'm assuming this did
likewise.
Your note on the brother was also one that came to my mind when i first read it.
From previous chapters i think it was implied that all the major nations were somewhat
aware of the presence of akatsuki and their desire to capture the jinchuuriki. His brother
being a kage would allow for a clear motivation for a joint front later on as well as
providing clear reasoning for the differences in the cloud countries treatment of the
jinchuuriki.
Lastly, i'm not sure how many tails the hachibi released before the full transformation
but to me the fact that naruto's skin starting to peel after only 4 tails was a clear indication
that the kyuubi chakra is significant stronger by at least double to be able to cause such
an effect.

Leos~
August 24, 2008, 04:50 PM
I don't think you'll ever realize just how much you made my day by taking up reviewing again. There's a few things i'd like to go into further, though, and one of them is your idea on the jinchuuriki being created to become the "protectors" of the village.

Up until the two jinchuuriki from cloud were introduced (the hachibi and the nibi) I would have totally disagreed with this statement. The rest of the jinchuuriki we've heard of have been nothing like that. The closest we've seen to this ideal is Naruto, who wasn't actually created to become the "protector" of the village (even if that is how the fourth wanted it to be seen), but more out of necessity to protect the village at that moment. Those Jinchuuriki who were created like this have not turned out as "protectors" of their villages, and in fact seemed to have inevitably turned out as pariahs which their home villages want no part of, some of whom were freely given to the Akatsuki. The other type of jinchuuriki that we've seen are WMD's, as you've said, that were made for war, arguably the complete opposite of protecting their village - Gaara being the prime example of this. Huh, that came out alot longer than I meant it too >.>

Another point of fact I'd like to further point out is that the genjutsu that Sasuke used, and that the Hachibi subsequently broke out of, was his mangekyou sharingan's right eye technique. I remember seeing a topic in here about how Sasuke broke the Tsukiyomi, and this may help us answer that, and further clarifies the nature of a mangekyou genjutsu. I'm really glad that these "super-genjutsu" which up till now have been made almost god-like status have been kept within the confines set by all genjutsu in this series. This also leads me to my last major point, which many other people agree with; Sasuke isn't done yet.

While he may have been taken down for the count, he seems to be getting patched up for try number three. And if anyone remembers earlier in this fight, he was taken down just to be magically healed by Karin and her freaky abilities for try number two. With that said, the only possible way Sasuke can still win this (on his own) is if he pulls a deus ex machina out of his left eye in the form of his mangekyo sharingan (either in his new MS technique which we haven't seen, or in it's ability of controlling bijuu - although that may only apply to the Nine Tails). I sincerely hope this does not happen, but I would not be surprised if it does considering what else we've seen him do in the rest of the manga post-timeskip.


Of the newer characters, Juugo, Karin, and the Hachibi host all seem to be very shallow to me. Suigetsu's the only one who has the potential to be intriguing.

You know, I've seen lots of posts like this, but I have to say I disagree with this. The hachibi so far has yet to seem shallow at all to me, and the only reason I could possibly see someone thinking that is because of his lack of a backstory. Up until the fight with Hachibi I would have agreed with you about Juugo being very shallow, but I think this fight has given him more depth in my eyes - still nothing to brag about, but at least a character I can like. Suigetsu has always seemed like an interesting character since we've met him, and I think he'll only get better as the story progresses. As for Karin.....well, can't argue with you there, she has been very shallow to me too :amuse

Anywho, just figured I'd share some of my thoughts. bai!

Jaime F.
August 24, 2008, 11:57 PM
Great Review Gold Knight. I guess I wasn't around for your previous Naruto chapter reviews, so this was a new experience for me. I'd say you graded yourself right, and modestly this time. So I'm in agreement with you there. Unfortunately I fail to see the One Piece comparison because i'm not familiar with it. I guess the idea of a pirate themed manga never really seemed to interest or intrigue me. Anyways, I think you did a really good job with this review. You made some good points, and gave attention to all the right things. Because of this, I will start to make an effort to read your Naruto chapter reviews. It's been a while since i've been satisfied with someones review, and analogy of a chapter. I hope your future reviews will be just as thorough, and on point as this one.

Saifi
August 25, 2008, 08:25 AM
That's exactly my point. There's no clear hero, no one to "root" for, and I think that's what's causing my total lack of interest in this fight. Hachibi can't be the hero because we just met the guy, know nothing about him, and isn't that compelling a character. On the other hand, there's no point in rooting against him for the same reasons.

So does that make Sasuke the hero? Well, is there anyone left reading Naruto who doesn't want to see Sasuke get his ass kicked? I could see myself rooting for Sasuke though if there was a good reason for the fight. But, there just isn't. I just hope Kishi wraps it up quickly, one way or the other.

I dont know i think that the "hero" should be the one fighting against Akatsuki, dont you think , so in this case it would be hachibee. and as far as character depth goes , we may not know his name but besides that we have been constantly been fed background info etc on him , and many people have speculated soo much about him, and even though he hasn't been in contact with anyone except hebi/akatsuki , people have been talking about how he effects other parts of the story especially the main character and what we can look forward to seeing from him, i don't think a shallow character could do that!

Plus the fact that hes the only black dude we have seen in the manga, how can he be shallow? ooh well but to each their own opinion , i wouldn't deny that i am not biased towards liking him because hes been whopping sauske's rear for weeks but still in my opinion his character should be the hero! (in this fight)

plus i wouldnt mind seeing this fight be longer for the simple fact that this is the first main character fight where we arnt 100% sure that he would come out on top, i mean that had been something missing from shippuden fights (esp sauske fights) i mean if sauske wasnt such an ass at this point i might actually be worried for him , like i was when haku almost killed him soo long ago (good times ....sigh! )




Oh, and Saifi, when I start something like reviewing I usually stay with it for a long while. One of the reasons I didn't do too many weekly reviews for such an extended period was because I knew I'd disappoint too many people if I didn't keep it up even if I had posted one. That's why I started to do volume reviews instead, and didn't really do them weekly following Chapter 400, even though my interest had already been perked by then.

Anyway, I'll try my best to keep it going. ^^;

meh I was half joking anyway, because i do hope that the other reviewers don't stop doing their reviews just because you are back ! i really like the different reviews because they

A) hit up on different aspects of the chapter one reviewer might have missed.
B) create place for intelligent discussion that is not 80% spam & OT (much more civilized)
C) help us better appreciate the chapter & how it caters to different fan bases.(i know i hated some of the chapters b4 they were reviewed and then i saw them in a diff light)

ooh and a side note (not that its too relevant) but i could never get into the "volume reviews" even though it was you, i guess something 2 months in the past which was already discussed to death doesn't seem relevant to me anymore. (but this is here nor there)

ooh and srry about the extended post size, i guess i have a round about way of getting to the point at times >_>
[hr]
Damnit ! i just said two things ......:( why are my posts long and lack sentence structure :'(

DarkManSharingan32
August 25, 2008, 02:32 PM
Great Review man... glad to have you back!
---

I only have a few thing to say really:

As far as Naruto goes and his defense against Genjutsu...
Well we can say that Sasuke was able to debilitate Hachibi for a time... Knowing that now, I would guess that Sasuke wouldn't just be standing around like he did here.

And there is the Sharingan's natural dominance of Kyuubi control (although we don't know how much Sasuke can do).
---

And finally... IF that was indeed Tsukiyomi, it would seem that it's highly possible for Sasuke to use Susanno... one of the only ways I can see him getting out alive. And not "cheap"... at all.

kaylee
August 25, 2008, 04:34 PM
And there is the Sharingan's natural dominance of Kyuubi control (although we don't know how much Sasuke can do).

True, but since there seems to be an Uchiha/Kyuubi connection, I wouldn't say that it'll naturally help him out against the Hachibi too. It should be interesting to see whether that Sharingan dominance extends to control over all of the bijuu but I'm guessing hoping not.
[hr]

I dont know i think that the "hero" should be the one fighting against Akatsuki, dont you think , so in this case it would be hachibee.

Not necessarily. First of all, Sasuke isn't officially a member of Akatsuki, and I'll never think of him as such. He's just cooperating temporarily with Madara to further his own goals. And I definitely don't think he's done enough to warrant labeling him as a "villian," but that's just me. :amuse

Like I said before, until we get more info on the Hachibi (and his host -- sympathetic background story maybe?), I don't think you can label either of them as "hero" or "villain" in this fight.

Saifi
August 25, 2008, 06:21 PM
Not necessarily. First of all, Sasuke isn't officially a member of Akatsuki, and I'll never think of him as such. He's just cooperating temporarily with Madara to further his own goals. And I definitely don't think he's done enough to warrant labeling him as a "villian," but that's just me. :amuse

Like I said before, until we get more info on the Hachibi (and his host -- sympathetic background story maybe?), I don't think you can label either of them as "hero" or "villain" in this fight.


Hmm... i wonder what it takes to "officially label" someone as akatsuki, i thought the robes were a dead giveaway but....ooh well...it was my fault really, i should have known that you wouldnt see sauske as the villian.

But i still think that since he , and his group hebi (which is officially his) on whosoever's orders did attack the 8 tail jin at his village for the purpose of capturing it so it can be killed during biju extraction that it automatically makes the 8 tails as someone merely defending his right to live, against a foreign aggressive force. Which by most definitions makes him at Least a protagonist if not a "hero"

but i am being foolish again since u have already stated that you will not think of sauske as a member of akatsuki or a villian, which makes any logic i bring foward a moot point anyway :)

kaylee
August 25, 2008, 07:20 PM
Hmm... i wonder what it takes to "officially label" someone as akatsuki, i thought the robes were a dead giveaway but....ooh well...it was my fault really, i should have known that you wouldnt see sauske as the villian.

The robes are meaningless. Sasuke's said himself that he's only using Akatsuki (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/411/05/). (or so he thinks, anyway. :p)



But i still think that since he , and his group hebi (which is officially his) on whosoever's orders did attack the 8 tail jin at his village for the purpose of capturing it so it can be killed during biju extraction that it automatically makes the 8 tails as someone merely defending his right to live, against a foreign aggressive force.

You have a point there, but it's still all a matter of perspective. Take Death Note, for example (or Code Geass, if you haven't read it). In both cases, the protagonists' actions can hardly be described as honorable, but they both acted according to their own personal senses of justice. I won't say the situation is exactly the same here, but just because Sasuke wants to capture the Hachibi doesn't make him automatically evil.



Which by most definitions makes him at Least a protagonist if not a "hero"

Ah, definitely not true, sorry. A protagonist, by definition, is just a (or the) central character in a literary work. So, Naruto's obviously the protagonist, but I'd argue that Sasuke is a protagonist. Hachibi is clearly not one, although he may turn out to be a sympathetic character.

//Sorry, GK, for derailing your thread...

glasskatana
August 25, 2008, 07:47 PM
YAY GKsr!!! Welcome back.
I'd just like to agree that finally seeing Sasuke lose is making me the happiest person on earth. But I'd also like to add that seeing him lose TWICE makes me even happier. Not only did Sasuke get pummeled by the hachibi host when he put on his demon shroud (and would be dead without Juugo), but when sasuke was fighting him before, just ninja versus ninja, the Hachibi Host beat him and was about to deal him a lethal blow had it not been for Karin. Sasuke has lost TWICE to this badass of a jinchuuriki. I'm in love with this character, unfortunately, seeing as he is currently battling Sasuke and Co., I feel he is fated to disappear soon. I hope not...but I can feel its inevitability.

Leos~
August 25, 2008, 08:39 PM
While Sasuke may not be a villain (yet...) there's no denying he is part of akatsuki. While he claims to be using akatsuki to further his own goals, it is obvious that akatsuki is doing the same; and furthermore he seems to be going along willingly (an important point) if his attack on hachibi means anything. Actually, in my opinion, I believe that Sasuke willingly joined Akatsuki because both Team Hawk's (except for Suigetsu, kind of) and Akatsuki's goals are basically the same. Thus, while he is "just using akatsuki" it is clear that he is willingly working for them - at least for the time being - making him a clear cut member of akatsuki. While I question Sasuke's actions ever since learning of his brother's supposedly true story, I will wait for more answers before jumping to conclusions.

Now with that said, I would have to say I agree with the others in saying that Hachibi would be the character to root for if you are looking for the "good" (and I use that term very very very loosely) side in this fight. There is nothing good that will come from Team Hawk capturing the Hachibi (unless they pull something crazy like using him to revolt against akatsuki/madara - which would probably fail anyway and still lead to madara gaining the hachibi) while if Sasuke loses, the akatsuki is not any closer to their goal and possibly even weakened if any of Team Hawk dies (c'mon Karin, do it for the good of the world!).

EDIT:
Just wanted to add something to what people have been commenting about on the Mangekyou Sharingan's ability to control the Bijuu: while we know it certainly works on the Nine Tails, it has been commonly debated about it's affect on the rest of the Tailed Beasts. While the author has only mentioned the Nine Tails in his talks about it (as far as I can remember), it would be easy to make fit given the past example of Tobi's 1-hit K.O. of the Three Tails. This is yet another way out Sasuke might be able to use. Man, the more I dwell on it, the more I lose hope that Sasuke might fail T.T

Gold Knight
August 26, 2008, 10:23 AM
Morning guys (at least it is morning where I am.) ;)

And thanks for all the kind words guys. You guys sure know how to make a reviewer feel appreciated. :)

Gonna answer a few more posts:

@ Adamant Dragon: Nice theory on the Hachibi host possibly having had to release his full form due to being surprised and inconvenienced by Sasuke's genjutsu. But I'm not quite sure that was the case. You'd suppose he would have transformed almost immediately in that situation. And at the point which he manifested his full inner demon, he had seemed to have gotten tired of the battle altogether and had just decided it was time to end things. At least I felt that was what was happening...

I think Kishimoto had a sense of urgency in this battle myself. He has several subplots running right now, as you said, what with Naruto's training at Myouboku Mountain and Pain's impending arrival at Konohagakure. Kishimoto knows that he's spent enough recent attention on Sasuke and I think this battle may have been designed to close the chapter on Sasuke for now, because it is evident that he will take quite a while to recover from his injuries suffered in this chapter. I think we'll be seeing more of Naruto from here on, for a while.

And yes, I certainly hope Naruto will develop much more quickly as somebody able to deal with threats in more efficient ways. He'll never be quite as "cool and collected" as Sasuke in battle though, and I think people need to stop expecting that to happen. That's not how Kishimoto envisioned Naruto to be, I think.

But in terms of power, Naruto IS a monster already - he hasn't tapped into his full potential yet but he's also had reasons not to do that - he's hurt others by trying to work with the Kyuubi, and he knows it's very dangerous overall - if it was just to himself he probably wouldn't sweat it, but when it hurts people like Jiraiya and Sakura, you know he's not going to be happy with that. For that reason I think his progress has been very realistic, but I admit I'm getting impatient. There has to be a point where he will be able to control the monster within himself. I think the "toad scroll" Jiraiya was talking to will have the key to that, though.

Glad you enjoyed!

@ carlhanz, thanks. Yeah it will be interesting to see how they all get away from the Hachibi's "destruction."

@ kaylee, yeah I surprised even myself by finding so many things to talk about, I didn't think the chapter would offer much judging by the spoilers at first, actually.

I'd definitely like to see the Hachibi host as more of a supporting character rather than a throwaway character. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen. At this point seeing how Hachibi's host is acting towards Sasuke and his friends - so belligerently - and looking at how Kishimoto seems to be building up towards "powering up" Naruto (Myouboku Mountain not to mention he hasn't been given the "key" to the toad scroll yet) I think Hachibi's host would provide too easy a solution for Naruto, so I'm predicting he'll still end up basically being a throwaway character. But I hope not. I'd like to see some conversation between Naruto and another jinchuuriki - especially one so in control of himself and seemingly in his prime. Might give Naruto some sense of confidence in dealing with the Kyuubi.

However, if the Hachibi host turns out to be an antagonist, that might be interesting...

Heh, yeah, Sasuke might have been thinking more of himself than of his teammates, as he did seem to at one point - but in this case somehow I felt like that little boy inside him who still cared about people (and stopped Suigetsu from killing unnecessarily) was worrying about them. Sasuke knows he pulled them into the whole mess, after all - even though he does seem to be very self-absorbed 99% of the time.

And I'm not sure that in the heat of battle he would been thinking, "Hm, if they die, then I'm screwed," after all. He's too proud for that.

As for the battle itself and what it means... I think Sasuke is trying to make himself and his troupe appear to be of value to Tobi and the Akatsuki and gain their trust by defeating and capturing the jinchuuriki - while at the same time subconsciously he might have wanted to see how he might have improved since his Part One-ending battle with Naruto. He also wanted to gauge the abilities of the bijuu to see how he could be so valuable and useful, probably... keep in mind he probably has no idea about how exactly the bijuu's powers are obtained by the Akatsuki yet, he hasn't even seen the "summoning ritual" yet.

And yeah, the Taka group overall isn't very well developed. But then, Kishimoto never really wanted to use them in the first place anyway.

(Sorry, Saifi, I'll answer your post next. Just had time enough for the posters above right now.)
[hr]
Well, back for the time being. Saifi's response is worth a post all on its own so here goes...

Something first though, Saifi, you should know that I'm not trying to "steal any reviewers' thunder" either. I realize that you already said your post introduction was made half-jokingly but I just wanted to get that out of the way. I encourage all the reviewers and members here to continue writing their own thoughts because more often than not there will probably be different lines of thoughts that are contrary to what I wrote, and I enjoy reading about different perspectives, because I always reserve the right to change my own mind, if I'm convinced enough. That being said, onward to the rest of what you said in your very thought-provoking post...


1)

I dont know if its an artistic technique that would indicate 8 tails might (the bubbles above the fist thing) but it seems to me that its just how it appears from that angle and that the bubbles are actually in the tails which are forming behind him and not above his fist.

Well it is all a matter of perspective I suppose, but it seemed to me as though the chakra bubbles were being collected in one place above his biceps at first (as though he was drawing enormous strength from it).


2)

When u say "we see Hachibi's host immediately growing ALL of his eight tails.." i completely fail to see the 8 tails at that point in the manga , the most i can see are .... 3

I saw at least 5 clearly defined tails in that page you showed. Two were springing out forward, and it was already shown that he had "octopus tentacles" instead of actual "tails" that you'd see on other animal manifestations, thus they didn't all have to be right behind him like on a regular animal.

In a previous page, you can see at least six.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/02/

I'll admit it's not all eight clearly shown. Visually, I saw the scarfs and ropes as other tails, but that may have been more of an aura. I suppose I shouldn't have said "all" but there's definitely more than just three tails.


3)

I dont know if he is nobility or not ,but it does seem that he was devoid of human/villager interaction or it could be that his brother kept him from being alone and different from all others and maybe thats why he is not messed up like most other jinchurikis , who have faced an agressive behavior from the villagers or maybe this village just respects power and doesnt look down upon jins, which is what konoha should have done , but ooh well.

Well, we know that at least a small part of the Cloud Country population cared about him, because that guy they interrogated wasn't so willing to give out information about him. Now it could be a matter of family obligation, though, since that guy seemed to indicate that he was from the same clan as the Hachibi host, too.

Also, keep in mind that the villagers of Konohagakure had just suffered a tragic episode in which many of their populace apparently died because of the Kyuubi, and they were only saved because of Yondaime. The Cloud Country may not have suffered the same kind of devastation that would have slanted their views on bijuus in general.



4)

I wouldnt call him a monster in terms of being evil, i mean he is going 4 vs 1 and even if those guys were vulnerable they were still fighting him and healing his opponent so him taking them out isnt very coldhearted and "evil", i mean the guy has to protect himself and hes a ninja anyway , so killing people should not be a big deal to him , esp when its in self defense( no matter how minute the threat may be >_>) now you should call him a monster when it comes to his vast power or the fact that he has a monster inside him , but i felt that the "evil" remark was kind of unjust even if hes fighting against the "main character" of the manga.

There's some truth to what you say about ninjas, but we've seen repeatedly that even the most cold-hearted ninjas in the Naruto series can have moments of regret (ie. Zabuto) and doubt (Haku).

Then there are some who just simply embrace their fate of dealing out mass murder, despite strong reservations, sometimes out of a sense of duty (Itachi) and sometimes not - sometimes they actually enjoy it (Deidara). I think so far from what I've seen (especially considering how Hachibi's host grinned in that matter) this guy falls into Deidara's category - he enjoys it. Of course, you COULD argue that he was just feeling superior - but even so.



5)

I am with u on this one , i think out of the entire group if anyone could be expected to get back up it would be juggo, esp since he has the cs and all, and its not like he actually launched an attack but he too is in a live or die situation and it makes sense that he wouldn't stay down , even if it was next to impossible to get up, as kenshin says the will to survive is greater than any other power.

but i still say that if sauske is to get his CS then juugo needs to die !

Heh. Glad to see we agree on at least a couple of things so far, haha.


6)

Yes sauske has a heart , and maybe he does care about his nakama , but i have also read tons of arguments in the discussion thread etc that say that he knows that without these guys he would have been dead meat , not once but twice, so even tho his concern for them might be selfless, it also might be completely selfish cause he knows that if they fall hes fuxed !

i donno i hate the guy and dont want to give him any breaks, ill give hiom that when he thanked karin after she saved her and when suigetsu was urging him on to "take em both out" that he might have genuinely felt for them but we also know that when it was a choice between his pride and his feelings for his friends.(vote Naruto vs sauske) it was his pride that left naruto with a hole in his shoulder, i mean he may have regretted it later but i believe when push comes to shove everyone is expendable to sauske!

because to be honest hes just not the same sauske that was willing to die protecting naruto, then he wasn't poisoned by orochimaru's thoughts and was under kakashi's wing, his choices since then haven't exactly been the right ones.

(phew!.. damn i get off on that subject , gomen for the long rant)

There's a LOT in what you say, and yes, I'll definitely agree that Sasuke is not in his right mind anymore these days. I don't think he ever was since he witnessed the massacre of his clan.

He's had occasional lapses back to his, what you could probably call, his "old" personality and I think the other members of Team 7 (and us readers) have witnessed that most of the time, which is why they care so deeply about him. But as you said, he's definitely in an "avenger" mindset - that kind of obsessive thinking that sets him against the rest of the world most of the time.

That he was so willing to go study under Orochimaru pretty much emphasized that about him - he's willing to go over to the "dark side" to achieve his goals. The question is, just how far will he go?

We're seeing that he's not QUITE going willing to completely abandon all his humanity.


7)

i donno GK as much as i dont want to methinks that you are counting them chickies b4 they hatch, the fight is not over and even though there should be no logical way for kishi to give sauske the win, the fact that madara guaranteed his victory keeps me in that state when i am braced for the shock of another lame plot no jutsu which will definately give sauske the edge / fight ! i donno its just a bad feeling, right now i am open to compromises where other team hebi members die to create a chance a victory , or the Mad., man himself comes down and keeps his guarantee!


but all that aside the PWNAGE was AWESOME! and probably made the chapter for me even if the rest had been trash !

Well, if Sasuke is not down, it would be pretty reminiscent of when he got up with the Curse Seal for the first time back in the Chuunin Exams, in the Forest of Death. But if Kishimoto goes that route, I will be completely disgusted. Because it will have destroyed the entire point of this battle for me - which is now, I believe, to show that Sasuke's not always invincible or so incredibly lucky that he gets out of every spot by himself.


8)

I am totally with you on this one too What the fux happened to juugo and his murdering rage /frenzy , i mean true it probably was better that he kep his head about himself and helped sauske get out of more than one tough spots, which a berserker couldnt , but i also think that going berserk now would be an utter waste of energy because well look at the behemoth he has to fight O_o!

True, it would be a hard task. I think Taka's best strategy right now is to take the better part of valor - and run away as fast as they can. XD



9)

Ya i liked that kishi decided to explain it rather than leaviung it as another open end , esp since it allows me to jump on the bandwagon of people who now se ethat naruto can counter genjutsu's effectively using this method and doesnt necessarily have to be instantly WTF pawned by sauske's cheat code later. and i am also jumping on the bandwagon that yamato is messed up in making naruto discard kyuubi, sure he needs his non kyubbi strength to be developed as well , but just shutting off kyubbi was a bad decision!

Well, Yamato still had to let Naruto know that right now, his overdependence (or maybe willingness to defer to Kyuubi) on the demon inside himself was not good as long as he can't control it. Because after all, I'm sure Naruto would want to know that he just nearly killed Sakura, doing that... otherwise he'd just do it again >_>

As we saw in his brief battle with Sasuke in Orochimaru's den, because of that knowledge, he realized that if he gave in to the Kyuubi again while Sakura and Yamato were that nearby, he ran the risk of killing everybody.


Also i dont think the kyubbi has been that agressive and evil towards naruto , i mean thelast we saw it ,it actually was treating naruto like somebody and not calling him a brat or whatever , he said lets show him "our power" (refering to go against sauske) but for a wily fox that was (we now know) summoned to destroy (which is its nature) he has actually been pretty helpful and if hes too powerful for naruto to handle atm its not really its fault is it? so ya i am saying i like the QB , hes my pal , and hes kept naruto alive when he would have died otherwise.

Well, don't know about that. Perhaps the Kyuubi hadn't really understood its situation at first, but he did seem to try to strike out at Naruto in their first meeting. After that Kyuubi may have recognized that Naruto held the key to its survival, but it still seemed like the fox may have seen some way to perhaps try to get the "best" of Naruto. At this point I'm thinking it's trying to manipulate or eradicate Naruto's personality to the point where Naruto would be willing to let Kyuubi run the show all the time. Kind of like Gaara and Shukaku - Gaara just simply gave in to Ichibi sometimes. He didn't care.


10 )

Phew finally (this is tiring) umm... u know what i forgot what i was gonna say and reading it again i dont see anything ineedto elaborate /komment on, i see u have covered most of whats to be said , so ya good review , good chapter and i guess welcome back ! (for now).

Thanks =)
[hr]

Well, i had a sudden thought about karin's ability. Although this is a little sick but i think Karin's healing powers get more powerful when you bite her in different places. When sasuke was injured the first time, Karin only let him bit her arm but the second injury was much more serious and fatal hence, we could see karin "exposing" so i have a feeling that karin most powerful effect would be biting the "groin" area.=P No offense. Just a random thought.


Yeah! Finally, good to have the Comments back. I remember I used to lurk-read them each week and then I lost interest in the manga for a while as well and now I'm back like you.

Well, you discussed the chapter quite well, but the one thing that intrigues me is Karin's past. Those are apparently bite marks.

Bite marks.

Yeah. I see a tragic past here. But who knows.

In any case, good job, GK!


They aren't bite marks, they shouldn't be round if they were, and just imagine what position karin and the biter would have to be to get those round "bite" marks in the chest.

I suppose I should have said something more about Karin's bite marks, but I resisted the urge mostly because I couldn't see a place for it in "ten comments" and also because I'm relatively sure it will come up again later in the story because we really still don't know a whole lot about Karin yet.

But, whether they're bite marks or not, it does give that impression that, boy, she did seem to have been abused at some point. As one person said, it does seem intriguing in that what exactly was her past? Was she "used" by her clan to the point where she got fed up with it and fell into cahoots with Orochimaru?


(Okay, gotta go out. Be back later.)
[hr]
One last note though.



//Sorry, GK, for derailing your thread...

You should know I don't mind at all Kaylee. It's as much everybody else's thread as it is mine, because I did encourage more comments by people after all. As long as it's conversation about or inspired by the chapter specifically, carry on. ;)

(Also, I doubt I'll get to answering everybody's posts all the time... so somebody else might as well! :p)

Rocco
August 26, 2008, 06:08 PM
Very nice review!
Truthfully, I expected Sasuke to be concern for the well being of his fellow team mates since he had preselected them shortly after arriving to Orochimaru's lair, so he should care for them. But I know what you meant, Sasuke is so internal with his thoughts and motives that he is hard to figure out sometimes. I was surprised that Zetsu was not there to record the fight for Madara.

The "freaky" Karin issue: Sasuke preselected her and he specified that he needed her on the team and so I believe he came close to death plenty of times while advancing his skills under Orochimaru's tutelage. Oro was freaky and kinky, so Karin fits the bill. It makes total sense to me that one would have to bite a former snake servant. But because her previous bite marks have not healed, she looks like a wayward heroin addict. I really hope that will be the last we see of her marks; it is really gross.
Thanks again for taking the time to review for us! You're awesome!

bigtymer32
August 26, 2008, 08:34 PM
first time i read one of your reviews good stuff hit alot of points i was thinking as i read the chapter.the best part of it is number 6.i been telling people for awhile sasuke is just cocky not evil :)the guys got a heart and all the sasuke haters can be happy hes got his butt kicked the whole fight.which is to be expected and i think thats the real reason madara sent him after 8 tails for experience.sasuke gonna end up being the winner soon so sasuke haters get back to hating him haha

Gold Knight
August 27, 2008, 12:26 AM
This probably will be my last response in this thread. Haven't checked yet to see if the spoilers are out so keep it in mind.

Thanks for all the posts! ^^



the first is the hachibi's enjoyment of the battle was to me influenced by the
shroud as the kyuubi's made naruto more agressive, i'm assuming this did
likewise.

You could likely be right there, yeah. But keeping in mind that each jinchuuriki may be influenced differently by their bijuu, Naruto seemed more "torn" than "happy" that he was fighting in his "shroud" - like he was so angry at the world. Hachibi's host just seems happy that he was gonna kick some ass...


Your note on the brother was also one that came to my mind when i first read it.
From previous chapters i think it was implied that all the major nations were somewhat
aware of the presence of akatsuki and their desire to capture the jinchuuriki. His brother
being a kage would allow for a clear motivation for a joint front later on as well as
providing clear reasoning for the differences in the cloud countries treatment of the
jinchuuriki.

Yeah, I'd like to learn more about the Cloud Country's treatment of their local populace. I mean, they had TWO strong jinchuuriki - and both very much in control, by the looks of it. Though maybe Yugito wasn't so much. But even so, with that kind of power, it seems kinda obvious that they're the biggest rival of Konohagakure as far as being a world power. No wonder Kishimoto wanted to save them for later on in the story.


Lastly, i'm not sure how many tails the hachibi released before the full transformation
but to me the fact that naruto's skin starting to peel after only 4 tails was a clear indication
that the kyuubi chakra is significant stronger by at least double to be able to cause such
an effect.

Yup, I think so, too.

Thanks ophidial :)


I don't think you'll ever realize just how much you made my day by taking up reviewing again.

Haha, well, glad to oblige, Leos :D ^^


There's a few things i'd like to go into further, though, and one of them is your idea on the jinchuuriki being created to become the "protectors" of the village.

Up until the two jinchuuriki from cloud were introduced (the hachibi and the nibi) I would have totally disagreed with this statement. The rest of the jinchuuriki we've heard of have been nothing like that. The closest we've seen to this ideal is Naruto, who wasn't actually created to become the "protector" of the village (even if that is how the fourth wanted it to be seen), but more out of necessity to protect the village at that moment. Those Jinchuuriki who were created like this have not turned out as "protectors" of their villages, and in fact seemed to have inevitably turned out as pariahs which their home villages want no part of, some of whom were freely given to the Akatsuki. The other type of jinchuuriki that we've seen are WMD's, as you've said, that were made for war, arguably the complete opposite of protecting their village - Gaara being the prime example of this. Huh, that came out alot longer than I meant it too >.>

Yes, it always seems as though jinchuuriki are on a whole flawed and disappointments to their countries - I think that was the case with Gaara, and why he became such a "outcast" as you put it.


Another point of fact I'd like to further point out is that the genjutsu that Sasuke used, and that the Hachibi subsequently broke out of, was his mangekyou sharingan's right eye technique. I remember seeing a topic in here about how Sasuke broke the Tsukiyomi, and this may help us answer that, and further clarifies the nature of a mangekyou genjutsu. I'm really glad that these "super-genjutsu" which up till now have been made almost god-like status have been kept within the confines set by all genjutsu in this series. This also leads me to my last major point, which many other people agree with; Sasuke isn't done yet.

Well, I hope he is for the time being... :tem

As for his genjutsu that he used, how did you know that it was the MS right eye technique? Looked to me as though it was just normal Sharingan in the panel they showed of his eyes right before the Hachibi was trapped.


While he may have been taken down for the count, he seems to be getting patched up for try number three. And if anyone remembers earlier in this fight, he was taken down just to be magically healed by Karin and her freaky abilities for try number two. With that said, the only possible way Sasuke can still win this (on his own) is if he pulls a deus ex machina out of his left eye in the form of his mangekyo sharingan (either in his new MS technique which we haven't seen, or in it's ability of controlling bijuu - although that may only apply to the Nine Tails). I sincerely hope this does not happen, but I would not be surprised if it does considering what else we've seen him do in the rest of the manga post-timeskip.

It wouldn't be surprising, why is exactly why I don't want it to happen.


You know, I've seen lots of posts like this, but I have to say I disagree with this. The hachibi so far has yet to seem shallow at all to me, and the only reason I could possibly see someone thinking that is because of his lack of a backstory. Up until the fight with Hachibi I would have agreed with you about Juugo being very shallow, but I think this fight has given him more depth in my eyes - still nothing to brag about, but at least a character I can like. Suigetsu has always seemed like an interesting character since we've met him, and I think he'll only get better as the story progresses. As for Karin.....well, can't argue with you there, she has been very shallow to me too :amuse

I know that was directed to Kaylee, but agreed with you there basically :amuse


Great Review Gold Knight. I guess I wasn't around for your previous Naruto chapter reviews, so this was a new experience for me. I'd say you graded yourself right, and modestly this time. So I'm in agreement with you there. Unfortunately I fail to see the One Piece comparison because i'm not familiar with it. I guess the idea of a pirate themed manga never really seemed to interest or intrigue me. Anyways, I think you did a really good job with this review. You made some good points, and gave attention to all the right things. Because of this, I will start to make an effort to read your Naruto chapter reviews. It's been a while since i've been satisfied with someones review, and analogy of a chapter. I hope your future reviews will be just as thorough, and on point as this one.

Ah, thanks Jaime F. :D

Little warning though - I have been known to be in error a lot of times. I'm definitely not perfect. XD I'll be depending on you guys to correct me whenever I make a bone-headed mistake.


Great Review man... glad to have you back!
---

I only have a few thing to say really:

As far as Naruto goes and his defense against Genjutsu...
Well we can say that Sasuke was able to debilitate Hachibi for a time... Knowing that now, I would guess that Sasuke wouldn't just be standing around like he did here.

And there is the Sharingan's natural dominance of Kyuubi control (although we don't know how much Sasuke can do).
---

And finally... IF that was indeed Tsukiyomi, it would seem that it's highly possible for Sasuke to use Susanno... one of the only ways I can see him getting out alive. And not "cheap"... at all.

I'm still not clear on whether it really was Tsukiyomi or not, but if it was... hmmm.

Guess I should have put some thought into that...

Well, maybe it'll be cleared up later. Thanks DMS :)


YAY GKsr!!! Welcome back.
I'd just like to agree that finally seeing Sasuke lose is making me the happiest person on earth. But I'd also like to add that seeing him lose TWICE makes me even happier. Not only did Sasuke get pummeled by the hachibi host when he put on his demon shroud (and would be dead without Juugo), but when sasuke was fighting him before, just ninja versus ninja, the Hachibi Host beat him and was about to deal him a lethal blow had it not been for Karin. Sasuke has lost TWICE to this badass of a jinchuuriki. I'm in love with this character, unfortunately, seeing as he is currently battling Sasuke and Co., I feel he is fated to disappear soon. I hope not...but I can feel its inevitability.

Hey GKjr, haven't seen you in quite some time ^^

True, this hasn't been Sasuke's finest moment, that's for sure. XD The only thing that would make it even better was to see somebody else step in and defeat Hachibi and make Sasuke look silly by comparison, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.

But yeah, I don't think Hachibi will hang around unfortunately, but I wouldn't mind if he did.


While Sasuke may not be a villain (yet...) there's no denying he is part of akatsuki. While he claims to be using akatsuki to further his own goals, it is obvious that akatsuki is doing the same; and furthermore he seems to be going along willingly (an important point) if his attack on hachibi means anything. Actually, in my opinion, I believe that Sasuke willingly joined Akatsuki because both Team Hawk's (except for Suigetsu, kind of) and Akatsuki's goals are basically the same. Thus, while he is "just using akatsuki" it is clear that he is willingly working for them - at least for the time being - making him a clear cut member of akatsuki. While I question Sasuke's actions ever since learning of his brother's supposedly true story, I will wait for more answers before jumping to conclusions.

Now with that said, I would have to say I agree with the others in saying that Hachibi would be the character to root for if you are looking for the "good" (and I use that term very very very loosely) side in this fight. There is nothing good that will come from Team Hawk capturing the Hachibi (unless they pull something crazy like using him to revolt against akatsuki/madara - which would probably fail anyway and still lead to madara gaining the hachibi) while if Sasuke loses, the akatsuki is not any closer to their goal and possibly even weakened if any of Team Hawk dies (c'mon Karin, do it for the good of the world!).

Concerning the "good side", Hachibi is the "victim" in this story, and Sasuke the "aggressor," which naturally lends itself to that conclusion. We'll see whether they will actually come to an understanding sometimes later, there's more story yet to be told. But it seems apparent at this point that Sasuke and his team didn't care a whit about what the Hachibi host felt - they acted like unfeeling ninjas working for an employer, pure and simple, from what we've seen...

But as for their dealings with the Akatsuki, does it make them more of "good guys" if they backstab them anyway? I've got a feeling that'll happen soon - although, I'm not sure Sasuke can stand up to Madara right now.


EDIT:
Just wanted to add something to what people have been commenting about on the Mangekyou Sharingan's ability to control the Bijuu: while we know it certainly works on the Nine Tails, it has been commonly debated about it's affect on the rest of the Tailed Beasts. While the author has only mentioned the Nine Tails in his talks about it (as far as I can remember), it would be easy to make fit given the past example of Tobi's 1-hit K.O. of the Three Tails. This is yet another way out Sasuke might be able to use. Man, the more I dwell on it, the more I lose hope that Sasuke might fail T.T

True, Tobi apparently had some uber-awesome jutsu that he used on the Three-Tails. And since he's an Uchiha... ugh. Good point.


Very nice review!
Truthfully, I expected Sasuke to be concern for the well being of his fellow team mates since he had preselected them shortly after arriving to Orochimaru's lair, so he should care for them. But I know what you meant, Sasuke is so internal with his thoughts and motives that he is hard to figure out sometimes. I was surprised that Zetsu was not there to record the fight for Madara.

Zetsu MAY be there! We just aren't seeing him yet. But if he is, boy, Sasuke sure gave it away when he said they were using Akatsuki. XD

Thanks Rocco BTW, glad to be back ^^


The "freaky" Karin issue: Sasuke preselected her and he specified that he needed her on the team and so I believe he came close to death plenty of times while advancing his skills under Orochimaru's tutelage. Oro was freaky and kinky, so Karin fits the bill. It makes total sense to me that one would have to bite a former snake servant. But because her previous bite marks have not healed, she looks like a wayward heroin addict. I really hope that will be the last we see of her marks; it is really gross.
Thanks again for taking the time to review for us! You're awesome!

Well, I certainly hope all these bite marks on Karin's neck weren't courtesy of Sasuke! XD (But then, if it was Kabuto or Orochimaru... damn!)


first time i read one of your reviews good stuff hit alot of points i was thinking as i read the chapter.the best part of it is number 6.i been telling people for awhile sasuke is just cocky not evil :)the guys got a heart and all the sasuke haters can be happy hes got his butt kicked the whole fight.which is to be expected and i think thats the real reason madara sent him after 8 tails for experience.sasuke gonna end up being the winner soon so sasuke haters get back to hating him haha

Thanks bigtymer. And yeah, I'm sure Sasuke will redeem himself... in time. That's the kind of character he's designed to be - eternally frustrating to the readers, due to his cliche shonen antagonist role -

"I'm bad, but im not THAT bad, so maybe you'll like me...""

Or... "I'm bad, but I'm COOL!" ^^


Anyway see y'all next chapter review. ^^

Leos~
August 27, 2008, 12:51 PM
As for his genjutsu that he used, how did you know that it was the MS right eye technique? Looked to me as though it was just normal Sharingan in the panel they showed of his eyes right before the Hachibi was trapped.

If you look at page 8, in the bottom right corner it shows Sasuke's right eye in his mangekyou sharingan form, then immediately following that on the ninth page it shows Hachibi getting caught in the genjutsu. Personally, I don't think that the genjutsu he used was Tsukiyomi - unless Tsukiyomi is a 'be-all-end-all' genjutsu technique that all mangekyou users can use, which I don't believe. The reason I say this is because when Sasuke had Amaterasu triggered, his eye formed into Itachi's mangekyou sharingan, not his own. This means it would be safe to assume that if he were to use Tsukiyomi his eye would take the shape of Itachi's mangekyou sharingan also, which it did not do here.

:offtopic on a side note, how do you post pictures in spoiler tags? I would have posted a picture of page 8 to show you what I was talking about, but I don't know how >.>

Answered in a PM



Concerning the "good side", Hachibi is the "victim" in this story, and Sasuke the "aggressor," which naturally lends itself to that conclusion. We'll see whether they will actually come to an understanding sometimes later, there's more story yet to be told. But it seems apparent at this point that Sasuke and his team didn't care a whit about what the Hachibi host felt - they acted like unfeeling ninjas working for an employer, pure and simple, from what we've seen...

But as for their dealings with the Akatsuki, does it make them more of "good guys" if they backstab them anyway? I've got a feeling that'll happen soon - although, I'm not sure Sasuke can stand up to Madara right now.

I'm glad you came up with 'victim' and 'aggressor' to describe the current relations between Sasuke and the Eight Tails (even though it seems that Sasuke is the real victim. :grin). When I was typing out my post the only thing that popped into my head was 'good' and 'bad' even though that wasn't really what I meant, and I was to lazy to find another way to describe it.

I don't really see them stabbing Akatsuki in the back anytime soon, considering seem to have kind of the same goal: the destruction of the Hidden Leaf (although that's technically not Akatsuki's main goal, it's kind of a stepping stone along the way).

The only way I see Sasuke turning on Madara in the immediate future is if Sasuke had lied about his goal being the destruction of the Hidden Leaf, which is possible considering it doesn't really make too much sense >.> But alas, this is merely my speculation getting the better of me, and I'm pretty sure it won't.

Saifi
August 28, 2008, 10:08 AM
sorry qabout the really late and possibly short reply GK , school started again and .... well... i did apparently miss those extra 3 tails in the previous pic -_-, but then again if you count those and what i saw as tails as tails then it kinda solidifies that the chakra is the tails and not bubbles over is fist.

I dont think u can have it both ways *fist bubbles and 3+ tails) just like i cant either (3 tails and bubbles in tails, making least 6).

ummm..... in # 4 i am gonna take it that zabuto meant zabuza! with the latest spoilers i guess ill have to take back what i said, that bastard actually cares !

and i guess yamato did have to tell him that he hurt sakura , but couldnt he have told naruto to train the kyubbi power in a remote mountain place like the 8 tails does ? where he is alone and can train without hurting his nakama. i am just thinking that shutting kyubbi off completely is kinda :-s.

Gold Knight
August 28, 2008, 12:54 PM
My bad, I did mean Zabuza... such a long time since I've read about him that I'm starting to forget his name spelling now .__. And mixing it up with Kabuto's. XD

Thanks Leos & Saifi for the clarifications ^^

Hemostrat
August 28, 2008, 06:58 PM
Hmm... i wonder what it takes to "officially label" someone as akatsuki, i thought the robes were a dead giveaway but....ooh well...

Actually, I would say the ring is what makes you a member of Akatsuki officially.