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bax
September 05, 2008, 07:09 AM
Chapter 512 is out! Come and get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38325).

After reading this chapter, please come add your take on things to the pool of discussions and predictions in this thread.

BlackHair
September 05, 2008, 07:13 AM
woot 1st comment xD

Im predicct, Ray will use sth to get away from Kizaru and will join the SHs again. Kuma will get punished for helping the SHs sometime later. I guess in the next chapter we wont hear much from the SHs, rather WB x Shichi.

bax
September 05, 2008, 07:15 AM
Chapter 514 is out! Come and get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38845).

After reading this chapter, please come add your take on things to the pool of discussions and predictions in this thread.

llmcduff
September 05, 2008, 07:21 AM
OK.. from the translation.. isn't the first 11 pages a rehash from the last chapter?

neomaster121
September 05, 2008, 07:38 AM
i think kuma will send Silver to where Zoro is

i also think kuma explained to Silver what Zoro did for luffy

fallou
September 05, 2008, 08:14 AM
Man, that's a though moment for the SHs (well excepted for Chopper since he's actually unconscious in that form:amuse)
But again, after dramatic moments, the SHs always raise up and kick some ass, so I guess it'll be the same now. I hope they're not scattered...if we see the SHs next chapter, I think there will be quite a lot of jokes in order to balance this, er, "tragical" moment
I think they've been sent to an island we've never heard about

noonethere
September 05, 2008, 08:20 AM
I think that the story may switch to 3 days after this incident and see where the SH are. they wil head back to SA to find it completly destroyed(caused by WB against the shichibukai).Or we will stay on SA and see what happens to Rayleigh and the supernova and Kizaru and Ace's fate and see the war as a flashback(kind of similar to ace versus BB)

Akainu
September 05, 2008, 08:29 AM
that was so emotional, Luffy screaming for each and every of his nakama and yet failing to save any - that's another realization of a man encompassed by Kuma.

that opens up so many possibilities it's just not true. I hope they didn't get seperated too much. it would be pretty difficult to handle nine storylines and them all restarting their journeysomewhere. as sento said it might be the other side of the ocean...

fallou
September 05, 2008, 08:46 AM
I don't know if anyone thinks the same, but I'm actually dissapointed with the Rayleigh/Kizaru fight. What did we see so far? Silver blocking Kizaru's attack on the SHs twice, then 2-3 swordsclash(and we don't actually see the clash, all we see is the two of them sword against sword), and that's it. I was expecting more real action, but I guess there must be a good reason for Oda not to show Ray's real abilities right now. But still...:(
Maybe it's not over though

ukyo1
September 05, 2008, 08:49 AM
Guy's ...if you look careful you ill see that kuma stay on his knee's when him gonna talk with Ray....

Dunno what to think after read this charapter...really unpredictable....

But...dunno....what the hell....first time i really dont know what is happening....All i know is that they are all with life.

Tobi Uchiha
September 05, 2008, 09:00 AM
I noticed that sento answered to luffys question, where the people are going after being teleported away by kuma. He said "that any man sent flying by those paws will fly through the sky for three days and three nights". How many days were the strawhats supposed to wait until their ship should have been coated? 3 days, isn't it? maybe it has something to do with it...

noonethere
September 05, 2008, 09:01 AM
The fight between Kizaru and Rayleigh seems to be just to give us a hint the potential of exceptionally strong people.(just like it was the case for Shanks, WB, Mihawk and Dragon). Seems Oda will show us a complete fight only when the SH will reach that level.:( That's why I believe we will only see the aftermath of WB against the Shichibukai. I just hope that the SH won't be back at the entrance of Grandline. Like Akainu, I also believe that the SH are together(well PX1 should be with them). The fact that Zorro cannot move will be helpful as he will be the first to reach the destination and would not be able to get lost before the others reach him:D
Maybe the SH were sent to Vegapunk as guinea pigs for his experiment. Hopefully they will be near SA.

shibigoku
September 05, 2008, 09:08 AM
Yes, an utter defeat! And for the whole crew! We're about to witness a big upgrade in strenght for the Strawhats when the next arc ends! For all the others I can kind of imagine how they can get stronger but Luffy's a real mystery. I don't think Gear 2 and 3 at the same time will cut it. And Gear 4 sounds wack. Something else, like a technique they will all master or something. Nice they needed that defeat.

hardedge
September 05, 2008, 09:23 AM
Kuma whispered something to Ray(which Ray was unsure of...) and Ray asked him where he was sending them....

iyung
September 05, 2008, 09:32 AM
i just wanna know what kuma and dark king discussed, its obvious kuma wasnt trying to hurt the crew.
probably moved them to meet someone.
like a favored was asked of kuma

and why is kuma so huge, kizaru looks to be like 10 feet, den kuma towers over him.

but kuma is way over powered for the strawhats and there direct fight methods seem not to be tactic that will work in the new world.

looks new techniques and strategies for opponents will be needed .

and oh yea i dont see the strawhats jumping strength levels anytime soon, i see them taking loss trying to get better or stronger but not like sudden leap to which they could take on kizaru or kuma for that matter. they probably continue on same path and gradually "level up"

and for that matter they need way more than a some new shit , i they need like some devil fruit users, and teachers or something.

cause there make up as we go approach definitly fell threw in the worst way.
<hr noshade size="1">
so i guess next chapter, war at worlds end, ace, white beard and whole sh!t load of pirates.

see the last admiral finally in the next chapter and see what marines are really working with.

cause besides thie victory from kizaru ,

they have been looking kinda lame understatement,
they have looked unorganized , under powered and waste of world governments money.

Pirulito
September 05, 2008, 09:36 AM
I hope some of them are separated... separate groups.

In any case, this is chapter is totally pure win.
Oh, man...not read One Piece spoilers is very satisfactory

shadowmaniac
September 05, 2008, 09:38 AM
I noticed that sento answered to luffys question, where the people are going after being teleported away by kuma. He said "that any man sent flying by those paws will fly through the sky for three days and three nights". How many days were the strawhats supposed to wait until their ship should have been coated? 3 days, isn't it? maybe it has something to do with it...

We've seen before that Kuma is a honorable man and if his abilities grant the target's wish by sending them to the location they dreamed of/wish for, then the SH were all thinking about Luffy's words: to separate and meet back in Grove XX (wherever their ship is supposed to be; i forgot :/ ) and continue on their adventures.
As pointed out by Tobi, the fact that 3 days are needed to coat the ship and that Kuma's ability makes the targets fly for 3 days and 3 nights as well as saving Usopp from PX-1 further accentuates the "idea".

Therefore, I truly believe that the SH were actually saved by Kuma during this fight which they were obviously losing. Kuma then told Rayleigh not to concern himself about the SH's fate and to get working on the SH's ship's coating.


If such is the case, why did Kuma save the SH?
Based on his reply to Rayleigh, it seems like he was asked to or somehow forced to do this...
Aokiji? Something related to the Ace affairs?

descendant
September 05, 2008, 09:42 AM
looks like this defeat is necessary in order for the strawhats to become stronger before going to the new world
but i don't think we'll be seeing them being trained, we'll just see them use their new technique when they fight stronger opponents later on, just like when luffy using his gear in the enies lobby arc, zoro with his kyuutouryuu and sanji using his diable jambe

Inkovic
September 05, 2008, 09:55 AM
Kuma is a fascinating character. He seems to be helping the Strawhats yet he is supposedly the most loyal of the Shichibukai. Also he is seemingly overpowered.

Great chapter, Luffy was fantastic in his regret of not being able to do anything to help his Nakama.

caco
September 05, 2008, 09:59 AM
im depress, SH crew was defeted.

I think kuma send them to some place safe but I really dont know why

dsr
September 05, 2008, 10:14 AM
It's true!
Kuma bows down in front of Silver and he calls him: "Dark King" Rayleigh.
I thought at first that he did that move to speak with SR that is shorter, but I don't think that it's only this.
Kuma has some kind of reverence towards the old man.
If you check the Kuma/Moria encounter you will see that Kuma has a different behaviour.

Rokuubi
September 05, 2008, 10:39 AM
do you think that Kuma used to be on Gol D. Roger's ship and is now helping out Rayleigh? but the fact that Rayleigh doesn't trust him is putting me off.. :S
i think that they will definately gain some knowledge/teamwork/power from losing

Flavx
September 05, 2008, 10:47 AM
Well this is my first post, and i dunno if this was already said, but why if Kuma was sent by Garp to help Luffy? Maybe he knew that Kizaru was attacking Luffy, and he realized that his grandson wasn't ready yet to face an admiral, so he asked Kuma to help because after Thriller Bark we see Sengoku talking to Kuma, and Garp is there so he might have said something back there, like "Why did you let them go?" and Kuma might have said he wanted to help. Well i dunno, it's just my guess =D

Mr.Popo
September 05, 2008, 10:52 AM
So, One Piece is finally over...
Not the ending i expected, but we had a nice time...

see you


just kidding

BlkHorus
September 05, 2008, 11:01 AM
Great chapter! You could feel the emotion and desperation of the crew as things got worst and they lost each member. What really got to me with this chapter in feeling the emotion of teh scene was even after Luffy screamed for Kuma to please stop it, the point that Usopp and Nami were calling out for help. Especially when Nami was calling to Luffy for help.... I mean any other time in the manga when Nami called to Luffy for help, He was there! But this time... he couldn't stop anyone or save anyone!!! Excellent writing Oda!!

Goos
September 05, 2008, 11:01 AM
Actually, I think that the utter defeat was the ideal idea for now.
If you think about the legacy of the previous arc, you are suposse to remember that Luffy raised his strenght and came up with some new awesome techniques, which was totally helpfull in the winning of enies lobby arc. Also, Sanji and Zoro came up with some new skills. What happened previously the Enies Lobby arc? The defeat by an admiral, Aokiji.

So, what's next?
Zoro said, after his defeat by Mihawk, that he was never losing again, but he was. How is he suposse to be right now? I mean, IMO, he would be like:
"Get stronger, get stronger, get stronger".

Also, check out Sanji's behaviour at pag. 08 in Chap. 513.
"Loosing two nakamas right before my eyes", sort like.

Finally, in the Aokiji defeat, Luffy he couldn't protect ONE nakama, Robin.
But now, he lost the whole crew.

So, we suposse that the three main fighters are going to train really hard in the next Arcs, I mean, world rank level.
----------------------------------------------------------------
About Kuma being the saviour of SH's..What are the Shichibukais?
Formers pirate. What few of them have? Values. Honor, pride and some other values, of being a pirate.

My theory, is not that Kuma used to be on Roger's ship, but used to be on the Dragon ship!
Why did Kuma never moved a finger about Luffy, and yet, seems to protect them?
And why does he show lots of respect to the old man but not for the powerful admiral?

Even so, it's just theory's...But does that not make a little of sense? Think about!


Cheers,

BlkHorus
September 05, 2008, 11:23 AM
Actually, I think that the utter defeat was the ideal idea for now.
If you think about the legacy of the previous arc, you are suposse to remember that Luffy raised his strenght and came up with some new awesome techniques, which was totally helpfull in the winning of enies lobby arc. Also, Sanji and Zoro came up with some new skills. What happened previously the Enies Lobby arc? The defeat by an admiral, Aokiji.

So, what's next?
Zoro said, after his defeat by Mihawk, that he was never losing again, but he was. How is he suposse to be right now? I mean, IMO, he would be like:
"Get stronger, get stronger, get stronger".

Also, check out Sanji's behaviour at pag. 08 in Chap. 513.
"Loosing two nakamas right before my eyes", sort like.

Finally, in the Aokiji defeat, Luffy he couldn't protect ONE nakama, Robin.
But now, he lost the whole crew.

So, we suposse that the three main fighters are going to train really hard in the next Arcs, I mean, world rank level.
----------------------------------------------------------------


That is true, but I think that it goes further than that. Not only the three main fighters, but the other SHs aswell. They keep being mentioned in the previous arcs about how their current powers aren't enough and how Luffy is putting too much stress on his body to handle it all. Yet he says that as long as he can protect his nakama its okay. His nakama is worried about the price he is paying to get stronger. So I think that this will probably lift them all to get alot stronger as the New World has alot instore for them and they all need to be dependable in being strong enough to handle it. Not since the Enies Lobby arc has everyone gotten stronger to handle the situation. And was again neededing to get stronger to handle teh WG. So I'm thinking that we will see some improvements in Franky, Usopp, Nami and Chopper (serious improvements along with th fighting three)

natli
September 05, 2008, 11:23 AM
My heart just broke for Luffy.
And the frames at the end set the new standards for EPIC ENDING.

dmnt3d
September 05, 2008, 11:32 AM
emotional chapter indeed :(

I predict they all get seperated and a new arc will be begin - where all of them will look for each other.

..damn. brooke - even though his a new member was all out in helping SH's. sigh.

Rotten The Wizard
September 05, 2008, 11:37 AM
Why is Kuma so overpowered?

He practically whooped the strawhats with 1 hand

OP ROX
September 05, 2008, 11:40 AM
Well Kizaru did say they have to capture Law, Kidd and Luffys crew so they dont look stupid infront of the Tenurubi... So now that the SH are out of the picture .... i think they might have to get Law and Kidds crew atleastttt (if there not off the island already)... the best way i see for them to get Powerup right now is being teleported to Vegapunk.... he can give them a devil fruit.. or implant it into Ussops or Namis Weapon... or he can tell them another way to use their devil fruit to gain more power from it

Zoro-kun
September 05, 2008, 11:42 AM
Be4 i read this chapter i was SURE this would be a kickass chapter. And it turned out i was so darn right! :D I knew the SH's was in very big trouble, but i tought that they would somehow manage to escape from it, not by themself, but with help from the dark king.

WHO would belive that Kuma would defeat the WHOLE SH's by himself? I've said it so many times: ODA, I LOVE YOU!! :D

My prediction for the next following chapters concidering the Sh's: it was mentioned something about 3 days and 3 nights, so i think they will all wake up at different places of the new world, maybe some of them in groups of 2n2, but acctually i think they all will get seperated. 1 thing im starting to belive in, is that some in the SH crew will get to meet Shanks, and I predict Usopp and that he will finaly get to meet his father.

Someone (im pretty sure) will wake up at WB or BB, or even in the marine jail... (Luffy :P)

Edit: That was pretty odd, i read that someone mentioned that kuma had bow to dark king, and i found out that that page was missing in my scanlation. lol.... I read that chapter again at onemanga.com ... So that changes a bit. It looks like they know each other (maybe old crewm8's) and it also looks like they have some sort of a mind-conversation. And it appears to me that Kuma is doing some sort of Kamikaze attack on the world government, and in that case i think he has sent the Sh's to a safe place. =) but acctually i hope more that the all have been seperated.. =D (and i wish Luffy get gear 4 and 5 and 6 soon! :D :P)

BUT 1 thing is 4 sure, I CAN'T W8 4 THE NEXT CHAPTER TO COME OUT!! xD

Marvstar
September 05, 2008, 11:45 AM
What do you guys think when Kuma said "We will not be seeing one another again... Farewell"?

Kamikaze attack on World Government? What is he planning! :blink

k-dom
September 05, 2008, 11:47 AM
From what Kuma said to Kizaru :
"We have no obligation to cooperate with the Marines save where the Government is directly involved... / I will not answer your question"
It means that the WG is not behind the SH rescue (even less Garp). So who is Kuma working for ?? Some said Dragon, but since dragon is the main WG enemy, it is doubtfull, except if Kuma is schizo

Is it possible that the SH remains together, even if the last text said they are scattered ? I hope for them that they are at least not too far away from each other

neomaster121
September 05, 2008, 11:59 AM
well chapter was just whoa

i don't think i can write a review for it just soo much going on

luffy man i felt for him seriously especially when nami was like Luffy... Help... i was like OMG

then robin went and he completly gave up

Silver funny thought if he was younger he would have been able to beat them all well thats how it came out to me

just a great chapter
think i'll sleep on it before writing a review

ZeroChrome
September 05, 2008, 12:15 PM
fantastic, emotional & epic!

although I said in the spoiler thread that this chapter is a bit dissappointing, showing the climax without a proper conclusion, I changed my mind. it actually is well made. I really felt the emotion in it. though I still do wanna see more of the outcome of the fight, but I'm still satisfied with this :D

I think the next chapter we'll be brought to the WB vs Marines incident. we'll probably won't hear anything about SHs in the next few chapters


EDIT: and about Kuma kneeling before Rayleigh, I think there's nothing much, really. he just wanted to whisper to Rayleigh since he's damn huge and he doesn't want Kizaru to overhear it. it's just like when you're telling to your little brother where the cookie jar is hidden. hehe :p

Marvstar
September 05, 2008, 12:28 PM
fantastic, emotional & epic!

although I said in the spoiler thread that this chapter is a bit dissappointing, showing the climax without a proper conclusion, I changed my mind. it actually is well made. I really felt the emotion in it. though I still do wanna see more of the outcome of the fight, but I'm still satisfied with this :D

I think the next chapter we'll be brought to the WB vs Marines incident. we'll probably won't hear anything about SHs in the next few chapters


EDIT: and about Kuma kneeling before Rayleigh, I think there's nothing much, really. he just wanted to whisper to Rayleigh since he's damn huge and he doesn't want Kizaru to overhear it. it's just like when you're telling to your little brother where the cookie jar is hidden. hehe :p

It was the despair in Luffy's eyes which got to me! Damn! If it is where the person desires to be, is it possible that Sanji went to the All Blue?

Akainu
September 05, 2008, 12:33 PM
some things I noticed...
is it of importance with which paw Kuma hits them? left or right? 2 groups would be o.k. imo.
also is it pandaman on page 17 on his bible? that's his coolest appearence ever.
and one last note:
on page 18 when Luffy had his break down (that will be one of those moments remembered most) Rayleigh looks so intriguingly omniscient, that surely is because of what Kuma told him before, whatever that was.

Zoro-kun
September 05, 2008, 12:34 PM
fantastic, emotional & epic!

although I said in the spoiler thread that this chapter is a bit dissappointing, showing the climax without a proper conclusion, I changed my mind. it actually is well made. I really felt the emotion in it. though I still do wanna see more of the outcome of the fight, but I'm still satisfied with this :D

I think the next chapter we'll be brought to the WB vs Marines incident. we'll probably won't hear anything about SHs in the next few chapters


EDIT: and about Kuma kneeling before Rayleigh, I think there's nothing much, really. he just wanted to whisper to Rayleigh since he's damn huge and he doesn't want Kizaru to overhear it. it's just like when you're telling to your little brother where the cookie jar is hidden. hehe :p


about the kneeling thing u said ("I think there's nothing much, really"), i very much doubt that.. Caus he said: "Dark king Reyleign" and he's kneeling with his bible to his heart. And if it was true what u say, that he was kneeling so kizaru couldn't hear them, he should've rather layed down, that way they would be at equal "level".


Just look how f**king big he is http://http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/11/ lol

goldb
September 05, 2008, 12:36 PM
great chapter! very emotional to see the SHs disappear like that and each one of them displaying such strong bonds with the nakamas that had been teleported before their eyes...

really can't wait to see next week's chapter...though i wouldn't be surprised not the see any of the SHs in that chapter...

I hope we find out what Kuma told Rayeigh in the next few chapters...but somehow i think it's related to the events of Impel Down(Whitebeard VS Shichibukai) or something that Dragon is planning to do(maybe he's gonna use the WB vs Shichibukai incident as an opportunity to overthrow the World Government?)...waits to be seen...

Tendou88
September 05, 2008, 12:37 PM
Man..Kuma is too overpowered.
Imagine if he send all DF users too water.
But strong characters like Kuma wont last long i think.

Eboria
September 05, 2008, 12:38 PM
This chapter was one of the best OP chapters for quite some time.
I also agree that some sort of powerup is needed but I don't really think that they went to vegapunk to get some kind of devilfruits. Instead I think that somehow they will learn one or two forms of the Rokushiki, like Soru(speed), Geppou ("jumping" on air) or possibly Kami-e(not being hit).

weixiaobao
September 05, 2008, 12:42 PM
:worship ODA is a GOD...

i am pretty much agreeing with everyone's post here, EDIT: maybe not the last two posts.. this chapter is the bomb..
Kuma is really something.. maybe this will be the first villain, that will have a detail past..

the way luffy's crew self sacrificing is powerful..

my favorite scene must be when Nami said help and luffy couldn't even do a thing.. probably the first time luffy felt absolute helplessness...

Page356
September 05, 2008, 12:44 PM
Okay, here's a little theory I've made up. What if the Straw Hats were teleported....to where they are now! It will be 3 days and 3 nights later, so considering that they need exactly that amount of time to get their ship coated then it would make perfect sense. Just because it states that the Straw Hats were scattered doesn't mean that they won't all bounce back together at the end of the 3 days. I know its not the most epic thing to happen, but it is entirely possible.

BlackHair
September 05, 2008, 12:49 PM
I don't know what to say. I read the translation and spoiler, still I was surprised how Oda drew this chapter. This was one of the most emotional chapter of one piece.
Just looking at Luffy was almost too hard: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6950/unbenanntkq0.png


The only thing I would complain is the cliffhanger. Oda could have drawn all crewmembers disappearance in one chapter, but well this way is fine as well.

Kuma must have told Ray where they were sent. And since Kuma said, they wont see each other, they must be still on this island. Maybe they r flying through the sky for 3 days, but will eventually land on this island. Cause without ship they wont see each other for quite a long time.

Next chapter is probably about Kuma+Kiz+Ray+Sento.

LoS
September 05, 2008, 12:49 PM
On a side note, I think it is pretty affirmative that Ray is stronger than an Admiral. He was taking on an Admiral slash for slash and his equal, yet he said that he wished he was back in his prime so he could defeat Kizaru(an Admiral) quickly and help out others.

If the first mate of Roger was in his prime stronger than an Admiral, imagine just how strong Roger and WB were?

WB is still most likely stronger than an Admiral even though he is in a weakened condition. Who on the WG's side is capable of defeating him one on one? Probably no one, he will have to get defeated/killed by deceit or some such.

camil222
September 05, 2008, 12:58 PM
i thought at first that kuma sent them at ennies lobby because he knows ace is luffys brother and that maybe dragon will show up there. it still makes sense but now that i know kuma actually saved them, i dont think hed take them to ennies lobby, i think theyre probably on the island somewhere, cause their ships still there. and i think next episode well see something about sengoku regarding ennies lobby or even the shichibukai, cause theyd be like wtf wheres kuma. but its almost impossible to predict the next chapter. all i know is that this chapter was sick!!! and i think kuma said farewell to luffy because saving them will be the last thing hell do to them and he wont get involved with them anymore.
and wat do u guys think kuma told rayleigh? i think rayleigh knows hes saving them and to not try and stop him but i dont think hes telling them where theyre goin.

BlackHair
September 05, 2008, 12:58 PM
I mostly agree with u LoS. Ray must have been stronger in his prime time than Kiz right now, but now he is pretty much equal with him. But we still haven seen them fighting at full power, I guess Kiz would win.. well that is my opinion.

And about WB .. Im not gonna say anything, dont want to start a offtopic discussion :P

btw camil22, Ennis Lobby is gone. I don't think they could have built it again in such a short time :P

djleathal186
September 05, 2008, 01:07 PM
i think...its the time where luffy need to get stronger in order to save his nakama's life after this.I cant believe they got easily beaten by kuma even though luffy using his gear.
I hope kuma will try to help them from kizaru.kuma got his on agenda and hope oda will show us the real story is.
its really full of surprises...
at new world..anything can happen..

Goos
September 05, 2008, 01:12 PM
Oh, I forgot to say something!
About what Kuma said:
"We will not be seeing one another again".
Maybe he have some plan for the huge fight, WB x Shichibukai's.

By the way, the theory for what Kuma said, now to Kizaru:
"We have no obligation to cooperate with the Marines save where the Government is directly involved... / I will not answer your question"

I guess, the Shichibukais are like a source for Marines, not for the WG. That's why he mentioned "Where the government is directly involved".
They may know the true history of the WG...heh, if so, freaking awesome!

Already looking forward next chapter!

Imitorar
September 05, 2008, 01:12 PM
(Note: This post is humongous. Really, I didn't think it would be THIS long. Read it at your own discretion, but I warn you, it's long. I probably should have made it a review...)

What an emotional chapter! This whole fight has been a rising crescendo of emotion as you see the Straw Hats become more and more desperate and more and more aware that they're out of their league, but this... This packs the kind of emotional punch that comes with the greatest scenes in One Piece, such as the death of Merry, Nami's plea for help from Luffy in the Arlong Arc, Robin's "I wanna live!", the end of the Alabasta arc, etc. This chapter can go up there with those scenes.

But the ending of the chapter is incredibly open-ended. Oda could do anything now. Seriously, the story could go basically anywhere. I can make some logical predictions as to what will happen, based on logic and what direction I think the general story is moving in, but there's nothing in the chapter that hints to what is to come next week, or even in the long run. But like I said, I can make some logical predictions, and they are that Kuma didn't send the Straw Hats to Impel Down or anywhere like that. If he wanted them taken out, he would have let the PX-1 kill Usopp. But he didn't, because he doesn't want the Straw Hats dead, he wanted them to get away safely. I would say probably due to his respect for Zoro and his loyalty, or possibly because he knows Dragon and has some sort of debt to him, which he thinks he's paid by rescuing Luffy, but either way, Kuma came to give the Straw Hats a fighting chance. This is also bolstered by the fact that Rayleigh seemed resigned to what Kuma was doing. He certainly came to help the Straw Hats, and he didn't react at all to what Kuma did, leading me to think that Kuma told Rayleigh what he was doing and where the Straw Hats were going, and Rayleigh let it go because Kuma seemed like he was trying to help, and was the only chance the Straw Hats had. Kuma also refused a direct order from a Marine Admiral to explain what he had done. While he was allowed to do this, as he said (which gives us another piece of the nature of the Shichibukai's relationship with the World Government, by the way), it seems out of character for the usually obedient Kuma to invoke such a law to avoid giving a Marine information, especially if he was capturing the Straw Hats. All this makes it seem likely that Kuma has not sent the Straw Hats to Impel Down, or Marine Headquarters, or somewhere like that, but rather, to somewhere where they'll be safe from Kizaru and Sentomaru and can regroup.

The question being: where? And are they together? I have no idea. It can't be too far away from the Sabaody Archipelago, because they need to get Sunny back (Oda won't make them give up Sunny. Franky wouldn't stand for it, they just lost a ship, and Sunny carries the spirit of Merry. Sunny's going to Raftel with the Straw Hats.) So they need to be within traveling distance of the Sabaody Archipelago, and since they don't all have Log Poses and some of them have abysmal navigational skills (I'm looking at you, Zoro and Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/8/02/)), so it has to be close enough to the Sabaody Archipelago that they wouldn't need to do any serious, Log Pose-requiring sailing, especially not alone. This makes me think that they MAY have been sent to: Fishman Island. It's close to the Sabaody Archipelago, close enough that they can just resurface, get Sunny, and cross the Red Line without much traveling. It also saves Oda from having to keep showing the Marine raid on the Sabaody Islands and lets him get to Fishman Island, finally. (Not that I don't love the Sabaody Arc, because I do, I really do, but this would be a very clever shortcut on Oda's part). And finally, Zoro was asked where he wanted to go. Zoro has a very good ability to figure out exactly what needs to be done. It was Zoro who first pinpointed the crux of the situation with Robin in the Water 7 Arc: had she betrayed the Straw Hats or not? (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/340/19/) It was Zoro who was able to see how the matter of Usopp rejoining the crew needed to be dealt with. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/05/) It was Zoro who was prepared for the trap Baroque Works laid for the Straw Hats. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/107/13/) It was Zoro who recognized that defeating Crocodile had to be left to Luffy, while stopping the Army and the Rebels from killing each other was the role for Vivi. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/177/03/) This list goes on, these are just a few examples, but I think they prove my point: Zoro has the ability to assess a situation, recognize what needs to be done, and follow through and do it. I think he may have been able to assess the situation the Straw Hats were in when Kuma asked him where he most wanted to go, and realize where the Straw Hats would be safest at the moment: Fishman Island. They've got connections, through Caimie and Hatchan and Pappug, it's their destination anyway, and it's more or less out of the jurisdiction of the Marines. Zoro may have decided to go there, meaning that he, at least, is (hopefully) safe on Fishman Island.

However, that begs the question of whether the Straw Hats were all sent to the same location. Kuma may have let Zoro choose for the crew, continuing his theme of testing to see if Zoro, as (de-facto) first mate, is ready to bear the burden of captaincy, including choosing the crew's destination. The test would be for Zoro to choose somewhere that would work out for the crew, in which case, Kuma probably sent them all to the same place, since the idea would be for them to make the best of Zoro's choice. Support for this is that he didn't ask the other Straw Hats where they wanted to go, so he might still have been sending them to the location initially chosen by Zoro, but that could very well be me reading things to suit my theory. It might also be that Kuma separated the Straw Hats, and there will now be an arc about how they all find each other again (reminiscent of the "crests" arc of Digimon, where after the Digi-destined split up to look for Tai, there was a whole arc in which they were slowly re-united and they learned how to make their crests light up.) But that would take a HUGE amount of time, since the Straw Hats would all probably need to go through a few mini-arcs until they all managed to re-unite, and only THEN could they go back to the Sabaody Islands, pick up Sunny, and go to Fishman Island. That would take an INCREDIBLY long time (possibly a year's worth of chapters), so I think it's unlikely that the Straw Hats were scattered across the One Piece world. I think at worst, they're scattered across Fishman Island, and they'll have to meet up with each other, but they'll be on the same island. They might even be scattered across different groves of the Sabaody Archipelago, but I don't think that would help keep them safe from the Marine raid, and it seems too easy a solution to be worth Kuma's time.

This chapter also helped reinforce the message that the Straw Hats are FAR from one of the most powerful crews on the Grand Line. They're pretty impressive for rookies. I'd say that by New World standards, they're about average. But they have a LONG way to go before they're powerful enough to conquer the Grand Line. I think everyone, the fans, the characters, even the Straw hats themselves (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/04/) have been a bit overconfident in the Straw Hats' strength ever since the Enies Lobby Incident. Well, their bubble of hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris) has been well and truly burst. Like the chapter said, they were utterly defeated. The Straw Hats need to get much stronger, to get much more comfortable with their existing techniques, and to develop new techniques and strategies, if they want to make it in the New World. If you notice, Luffy's line on the second to last page of this chapter, "I couldn't protect a single crew-mate", seems parallel to Luffy's speech about why he created Gear 2nd. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) He developed Gear 2nd so he could protect his crew, but it's still not enough. Luffy needs to become more proficient in the usage of Gear, he needs to get stronger, if he wants to protect his crew in the New World. All of the Straw Hats do. Hopefully, whatever they have to do to re-unite (if that's necessary) and get back to Sunny (which IS necessary), helps them realize that they need to have a realistic assesment of their own strength and helps them start to get stronger.

Luffy also needs to learn to keep his calm a bit better. He's been slowly growing better at making responsible decisions as a captain throughout the series, but he can still snap and go completely wild, which makes it a bit easier for him to be defeated, which leaves his crew without his protection. Hopefully, as well as getting stronger, Luffy will also improve his ability to deal with stressful situations in a calm, commanding, captain-like manner, which is also a huge skill that he'll need to master if he wants to be a major player in the New World.

And finally, I'm curious about Kuma's parting words to Luffy. "We will not be seeing one another again..." Does Kuma think that the Straw Hats won't be able to survive wherever he's sending them to? Does he think he's paid off any debt he may possibly have, and therefore won't be coming to bail the Straw Hats out again? (It was this line that led me to theorize that Kuma saved the Straw Hats to pay some sort of debt to Dragon.) Does he think that the Straw Hats will survive, but won't manage to get back together and once again become a pirate crew worthy of the notice of a Shichibukai? And if it's any one of these reasons, WHY? I don't know, but I'm sure that Kuma's reasons for coming to the Straw Hats now, and therefore, his reasons for thinking that he and Luffy won't see each other again, will be revealed later in the story, perhaps when we find out more about Kuma, or we see what ends up becoming of the Straw Hats. It's something to ponder for now. My hopes are set EXTREMELY high for where this story's gonna go, and I can't wait to see which of the many, many possible paths for the story to follow is picked by Oda. I think that this arc is about to get beyond amazing.

Akainu
September 05, 2008, 01:22 PM
about the kneeling thing u said ("I think there's nothing much, really"), i very much doubt that.. Caus he said: "Dark king Reyleign" and he's kneeling with his bible to his heart. And if it was true what u say, that he was kneeling so kizaru couldn't hear them, he should've rather layed down, that way they would be at equal "level".


Just look how f**king big he is http://http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/11/ lol

imo you're reading way to much into it. Rayleigh was already called "dark king" or "hades" as some translated it some chapters ago and has nothing to do with the relationship of Kuma and Rayleigh.

to what he said I think it could be a profane thing like "I think they will be safe where I sent them" and beign asked if that was reliable he had to admit that he isn't all too sure about... on the other hand it wouldn't be dramatically enough for such a climactic chapter.

Sagemaster2000
September 05, 2008, 01:23 PM
Jesus! The spoiler translations did nothing to bring out the emotions like the scans do...oh man....oh man...I am just like most of the members...in shock and awe.



Oda really did it this time. Seeing how EACH crew member broke down just like Luffy, especially Sanji...crying...on the ground...not understand what the fuck is happening...grabbing there hair tight...going crazy....pure emotion....the perfect ingrediant to true power and strength...



The suspense of the next chapter is killing me! I haven't had this much suspense since the ending chapters of Luffy vs Lucci....Oda has done it again!



The thing that keeps my hopes up is the whispering between Kuma and Rayleigh...both Sent and Kizaru had no idea wtf Kuma was doing....Rayleigh wanted to really really help the SH out but he had his hands full with Kizaru.



I was suprised to see Luffy use Gear 2 and get his Jet Pistol utterly deflected by Kuma, Sajni tossed about, Chopper gone in a flash, Robin and Nami begging for help while Luffy is extending his arm out...able to do nothing but watch....Brooke not even getting to finish his "Death Jokes" man it was friggin emotional....I had my mouth open from Page 1.


THANK YOU ODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD FUCKING WORK MAN THIS SHIT IS LIKE CRACK....MAD ADDICTING AND YA CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH BEFORE U DIE! LMAO.

Marvstar
September 05, 2008, 01:40 PM
(Note: This post is humongous. Really, I didn't think it would be THIS long. Read it at your own discretion, but I warn you, it's long. I probably should have made it a review...)

What an emotional chapter! This whole fight has been a rising crescendo of emotion as you see the Straw Hats become more and more desperate and more and more aware that they're out of their league, but this... This packs the kind of emotional punch that comes with the greatest scenes in One Piece, such as the death of Merry, Nami's plea for help from Luffy in the Arlong Arc, Robin's "I wanna live!", the end of the Alabasta arc, etc. This chapter can go up there with those scenes.

But the ending of the chapter is incredibly open-ended. Oda could do anything now. Seriously, the story could go basically anywhere. I can make some logical predictions as to what will happen, based on logic and what direction I think the general story is moving in, but there's nothing in the chapter that hints to what is to come next week, or even in the long run. But like I said, I can make some logical predictions, and they are that Kuma didn't send the Straw Hats to Impel Down or anywhere like that. If he wanted them taken out, he would have let the PX-1 kill Usopp. But he didn't, because he doesn't want the Straw Hats dead, he wanted them to get away safely. I would say probably due to his respect for Zoro and his loyalty, or possibly because he knows Dragon and has some sort of debt to him, which he thinks he's paid by rescuing Luffy, but either way, Kuma came to give the Straw Hats a fighting chance. This is also bolstered by the fact that Rayleigh seemed resigned to what Kuma was doing. He certainly came to help the Straw Hats, and he didn't react at all to what Kuma did, leading me to think that Kuma told Rayleigh what he was doing and where the Straw Hats were going, and Rayleigh let it go because Kuma seemed like he was trying to help, and was the only chance the Straw Hats had. Kuma also refused a direct order from a Marine Admiral to explain what he had done. While he was allowed to do this, as he said (which gives us another piece of the nature of the Shichibukai's relationship with the World Government, by the way), it seems out of character for the usually obedient Kuma to invoke such a law to avoid giving a Marine information, especially if he was capturing the Straw Hats. All this makes it seem likely that Kuma has not sent the Straw Hats to Impel Down, or Marine Headquarters, or somewhere like that, but rather, to somewhere where they'll be safe from Kizaru and Sentomaru and can regroup.

The question being: where? And are they together? I have no idea. It can't be too far away from the Sabaody Archipelago, because they need to get Sunny back (Oda won't make them give up Sunny. Franky wouldn't stand for it, they just lost a ship, and Sunny carries the spirit of Merry. Sunny's going to Raftel with the Straw Hats.) So they need to be within traveling distance of the Sabaody Archipelago, and since they don't all have Log Poses and some of them have abysmal navigational skills (I'm looking at you, Zoro and Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/8/02/)), so it has to be close enough to the Sabaody Archipelago that they wouldn't need to do any serious, Log Pose-requiring sailing, especially not alone. This makes me think that they MAY have been sent to: Fishman Island. It's close to the Sabaody Archipelago, close enough that they can just resurface, get Sunny, and cross the Red Line without much traveling. It also saves Oda from having to keep showing the Marine raid on the Sabaody Islands and lets him get to Fishman Island, finally. (Not that I don't love the Sabaody Arc, because I do, I really do, but this would be a very clever shortcut on Oda's part). And finally, Zoro was asked where he wanted to go. Zoro has a very good ability to figure out exactly what needs to be done. It was Zoro who first pinpointed the crux of the situation with Robin in the Water 7 Arc: had she betrayed the Straw Hats or not? (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/340/19/) It was Zoro who was able to see how the matter of Usopp rejoining the crew needed to be dealt with. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/05/) It was Zoro who was prepared for the trap Baroque Works laid for the Straw Hats. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/107/13/) It was Zoro who recognized that defeating Crocodile had to be left to Luffy, while stopping the Army and the Rebels from killing each other was the role for Vivi. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/177/03/) This list goes on, these are just a few examples, but I think they prove my point: Zoro has the ability to assess a situation, recognize what needs to be done, and follow through and do it. I think he may have been able to assess the situation the Straw Hats were in when Kuma asked him where he most wanted to go, and realize where the Straw Hats would be safest at the moment: Fishman Island. They've got connections, through Caimie and Hatchan and Pappug, it's their destination anyway, and it's more or less out of the jurisdiction of the Marines. Zoro may have decided to go there, meaning that he, at least, is (hopefully) safe on Fishman Island.

However, that begs the question of whether the Straw Hats were all sent to the same location. Kuma may have let Zoro choose for the crew, continuing his theme of testing to see if Zoro, as (de-facto) first mate, is ready to bear the burden of captaincy, including choosing the crew's destination. The test would be for Zoro to choose somewhere that would work out for the crew, in which case, Kuma probably sent them all to the same place, since the idea would be for them to make the best of Zoro's choice. Support for this is that he didn't ask the other Straw Hats where they wanted to go, so he might still have been sending them to the location initially chosen by Zoro, but that could very well be me reading things to suit my theory. It might also be that Kuma separated the Straw Hats, and there will now be an arc about how they all find each other again (reminiscent of the "crests" arc of Digimon, where after the Digi-destined split up to look for Tai, there was a whole arc in which they were slowly re-united and they learned how to make their crests light up.) But that would take a HUGE amount of time, since the Straw Hats would all probably need to go through a few mini-arcs until they all managed to re-unite, and only THEN could they go back to the Sabaody Islands, pick up Sunny, and go to Fishman Island. That would take an INCREDIBLY long time (possibly a year's worth of chapters), so I think it's unlikely that the Straw Hats were scattered across the One Piece world. I think at worst, they're scattered across Fishman Island, and they'll have to meet up with each other, but they'll be on the same island. They might even be scattered across different groves of the Sabaody Archipelago, but I don't think that would help keep them safe from the Marine raid, and it seems too easy a solution to be worth Kuma's time.

This chapter also helped reinforce the message that the Straw Hats are FAR from one of the most powerful crews on the Grand Line. They're pretty impressive for rookies. I'd say that by New World standards, they're about average. But they have a LONG way to go before they're powerful enough to conquer the Grand Line. I think everyone, the fans, the characters, even the Straw hats themselves (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/04/) have been a bit overconfident in the Straw Hats' strength ever since the Enies Lobby Incident. Well, their bubble of hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris) has been well and truly burst. Like the chapter said, they were utterly defeated. The Straw Hats need to get much stronger, to get much more comfortable with their existing techniques, and to develop new techniques and strategies, if they want to make it in the New World. If you notice, Luffy's line on the second to last page of this chapter, "I couldn't protect a single crew-mate", seems parallel to Luffy's speech about why he created Gear 2nd. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) He developed Gear 2nd so he could protect his crew, but it's still not enough. Luffy needs to become more proficient in the usage of Gear, he needs to get stronger, if he wants to protect his crew in the New World. All of the Straw Hats do. Hopefully, whatever they have to do to re-unite (if that's necessary) and get back to Sunny (which IS necessary), helps them realize that they need to have a realistic assesment of their own strength and helps them start to get stronger.

Luffy also needs to learn to keep his calm a bit better. He's been slowly growing better at making responsible decisions as a captain throughout the series, but he can still snap and go completely wild, which makes it a bit easier for him to be defeated, which leaves his crew without his protection. Hopefully, as well as getting stronger, Luffy will also improve his ability to deal with stressful situations in a calm, commanding, captain-like manner, which is also a huge skill that he'll need to master if he wants to be a major player in the New World.

And finally, I'm curious about Kuma's parting words to Luffy. "We will not be seeing one another again..." Does Kuma think that the Straw Hats won't be able to survive wherever he's sending them to? Does he think he's paid off any debt he may possibly have, and therefore won't be coming to bail the Straw Hats out again? (It was this line that led me to theorize that Kuma saved the Straw Hats to pay some sort of debt to Dragon.) Does he think that the Straw Hats will survive, but won't manage to get back together and once again become a pirate crew worthy of the notice of a Shichibukai? And if it's any one of these reasons, WHY? I don't know, but I'm sure that Kuma's reasons for coming to the Straw Hats now, and therefore, his reasons for thinking that he and Luffy won't see each other again, will be revealed later in the story, perhaps when we find out more about Kuma, or we see what ends up becoming of the Straw Hats. It's something to ponder for now. My hopes are set EXTREMELY high for where this story's gonna go, and I can't wait to see which of the many, many possible paths for the story to follow is picked by Oda. I think that this arc is about to get beyond amazing.

I think that the great separation of the straw hats might actually happen, if my memory serves me correctly, Rayleigh gave each of the SH's a vivre card each right? If so they can use that to meet up again, but this crushing defeat serves a greater purpose, which is to bring the SH's back to earth and tell them that they need to be stronger, if you are correct about seeing a mini-arc of each of the members reuniting, then maybe Oda can show us their individual journeys of how they will obtain a new level of strength.

And about Kuma, I think with the evidence of:

A) Kuma whispering to Rayleigh
B) Rayleigh seems to not see Kuma as an enemy after whatever Kuma said to him
C) Assuming that Kuma has sent the SH's to a safe place
D) Kuma not listening to Kizaru orders
E) Kuma's "We will not see one anotoher after this.."

Perhaps Kuma has stumbled on some secret evidence involving the WG and plans to revolt against them, this may cause his inevitable death which is why he said he won't see Luffy after. Also after whispering to Rayleigh, Kuma also said "I'm not too sure myself", that leads us to believe that Kuma has formed a theory/hypothesis, if so, why is he sharing this info with Silvers Rayleigh- an enemy of the WG? With all this evidence I think we can conclude that something has happened, or Kuma has discovered something to jeopardize his loyalty to WG..

Onomatopoeia
September 05, 2008, 01:56 PM
I think at this point we can be sure that Rayleigh is not stronger then Kizaru. Either they're equal or Ray is a bit weaker based off the fact that he was panting unlike Kizaru. This is also directly related to the WB discussion about his strength. Because if Ray was equal to WB when Roger was still around(not my own personal opinion) well you know what would happen if Kizaru and WB ever met. Considering this I'm not really sure whether the admiral's can take on a Yonkou each but it's become steadily more plausible.


Anyways GREAT CHAPTER!!!

ascalon
September 05, 2008, 01:57 PM
I think that the great separation of the straw hats might actually happen, if my memory serves me correctly, Rayleigh gave each of the SH's a vivre card each right? If so they can use that to meet up again, but this crushing defeat serves a greater purpose, which is to bring the SH's back to earth and tell them that they need to be stronger, if you are correct about seeing a mini-arc of each of the members reuniting, then maybe Oda can show us their individual journeys of how they will obtain a new level of strength.

And about Kuma, I think with the evidence of:

A) Kuma whispering to Rayleigh
B) Rayleigh seems to not see Kuma as an enemy after whatever Kuma said to him
C) Assuming that Kuma has sent the SH's to a safe place
D) Kuma not listening to Kizaru orders
E) Kuma's "We will not see one anotoher after this.."

Perhaps Kuma has stumbled on some secret evidence involving the WG and plans to revolt against them, this may cause his inevitable death which is why he said he won't see Luffy after. Also after whispering to Rayleigh, Kuma also said "I'm not too sure myself", that leads us to believe that Kuma has formed a theory/hypothesis, if so, why is he sharing this info with Silvers Rayleigh- an enemy of the WG? With all this evidence I think we can conclude that something has happened, or Kuma has discovered something to jeopardize his loyalty to WG..

I think you're exactly right. Kuma obviously had respect for Rayleigh since he was kneeling before him (and maybe so he could whisper to Rayleigh). Kuma is obviously involved in something strange that not even he is sure about. That means there are others involved with his recent decision making. Who it is, we don't know yet.

Lugh
September 05, 2008, 02:20 PM
Awesome chapter, indeed!

In my opinion it is time for Monkey D. Dragon to make his appearance. If there is anyone to train/upgrade the SH crew, its him. Still this would be unusual for the SH to depend on someone to train them. This actually never happend before, did it?

Anyway... Monkey D. Dragon may appear in the next few chapters.. thats what I believe :)

By the way.. when Kuma was introduced to us on Thriller-bark, he talked to Nami and asked if Luffy really had a brother. Nami said "yes its Ace" and Kuma answered "so its true". Then he said that what he was doing there was for him to decide.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/18/

I see some connection here. Kuma must be somehow involved with the Monkey D. family. Thats why I think we will see someone of the Monkey D. in the next chapters. Be it Dragon, Ace, Garp... someone at least :)

BlackHair
September 05, 2008, 02:23 PM
Because if Ray was equal to WB when Roger was still around(not my own personal opinion) well you know what would happen if Kizaru and WB ever met. Considering this I'm not really sure whether the admiral's can take on a Yonkou each but it's become steadily more plausible Well, if we only take the leaders of each groups: then we have Yonkou (4) vs 3 Admiral+Fleet Admiral (4). Unless sth different is stated, I believe their fighting power is equal.

Now since Ray is fighting quite evenly with Kizaru, I think its safe to assume that Garp and Rayleigh is on Admiral/Yonkou lvl.


And I agree, there must have been sth happened with Kuma, coz he is now helping the other side. I believe Garp has sth to do with it. As he said, that they wont see each other again, I thought that VP might have implemented some kind of bomb in Kumas body, in case f he should go out of control. So I guess he will die. About SHs, they have to be on this Island or somewhere near. And probably together. Kuma must have told Rayleigh where they are and Kuma didn't know that they had Rays vivre card. So they must be all together, after all Zoro is heavily injured and Kuma knows that.


btw. Im the only who can w8 silently for the next chapter? I mean the cliffhanger is emotional but thats it. They are not dead... I was more pimped up after it was said by Drake, that the marine is asking for War

dsr
September 05, 2008, 02:31 PM
I think that what's happening during the last arcs is leading to a breakpoint.
It's easy to believe that in a way or another, the WG is getting stronger and the balance is going to be compromised.

Ace, one of the strongest pirate in the world is near to execution.
WB will surely get out of the rescue mission with his bones broken (I mean that several of his man will lose their life and even WB is in GREAT danger)
The SHs and the SNs are obliterated and near dead meat.

Lugh
September 05, 2008, 02:40 PM
I just remembered that in chapter 100 it was Monkey D. Dragon who saved Luffy from Smoker guy in Loguetown. It can be assumed that it was also him, who saved Luffy from the execution (with lightning) and then with Wind and an ability called "storm" against smoker and marines.

therefore I think that Kuma must be connected with Dragon somehow, because there would be no one else, who would be of high authority with an interest of helping the SHs. Garp doesnt seem to be very involved in SHs journey, so he is out of questions as well.

btw: Dragon somehow really looks like Gold D. Roger

gold349
September 05, 2008, 02:46 PM
this chapter was as awesome as many that have come before it, the desperation on SH's faces was shown clear and the mind to sacrifice their own safety for the others has been well displayed in the last couple of chapters.

Vivre card - note: the card/paper is off Raleigh, its his card, those people that receive the card can find Raleigh only. If he gives the card to 100 different people then those hundred get split up, there is no chance they are going to find each other using those cards, it will bring those back to the originator/owner of the card that is Raleigh in this instance, if I missed something out add it if you want.

Marvstar
September 05, 2008, 02:52 PM
Well, if we only take the leaders of each groups: then we have Yonkou (4) vs 3 Admiral+Fleet Admiral (4). Unless sth different is stated, I believe their fighting power is equal.

Now since Ray is fighting quite evenly with Kizaru, I think its safe to assume that Garp and Rayleigh is on Admiral/Yonkou lvl.


And I agree, there must have been sth happened with Kuma, coz he is now helping the other side. I believe Garp has sth to do with it. As he said, that they wont see each other again, I thought that VP might have implemented some kind of bomb in Kumas body, in case f he should go out of control. So I guess he will die. About SHs, they have to be on this Island or somewhere near. And probably together. Kuma must have told Rayleigh where they are and Kuma didn't know that they had Rays vivre card. So they must be all together, after all Zoro is heavily injured and Kuma knows that.


btw. Im the only who can w8 silently for the next chapter? I mean the cliffhanger is emotional but thats it. They are not dead... I was more pimped up after it was said by Drake, that the marine is asking for War

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/16/

On the middle panel it says that Garp once cornered the pirate king Gol D Roger while he was still around, that means Garp must be much stronger than we anticipated. :D


this chapter was as awesome as many that have come before it, the desperation on SH's faces was shown clear and the mind to sacrifice their own safety for the others has been well displayed in the last couple of chapters.

Vivre card - note: the card/paper is off Raleigh, its his card, those people that receive the card can find Raleigh only. If he gives the card to 100 different people then those hundred get split up, there is no chance they are going to find each other using those cards, it will bring those back to the originator/owner of the card that is Raleigh in this instance, if I missed something out add it if you want.

Yes, I see what you are saying about the card, but Rayleigh's original intention of giving the vivre card to the SH members was so that they could make their way back to him and the Thousand Sunny after it has been coated, so it is entirely possible that all the members could follow their vivre card not to each other, but to Rayleigh and the Thousand Sunny to all reunite at once :P!

Agreed about the desperation thing in the faces of the crew, it was almost heart wrenching looking at the panel where Luffy says he couldn't save a single nakama :(!

LoS
September 05, 2008, 02:57 PM
On the middle panel it says that Garp once cornered the pirate king Gol D Roger while he was still around, that means Garp must be much stronger than we anticipated. :D

It doesn't say jack shit, Garp could have had 100X more men, he could have caught Roger by surprise, hell a hundred different things could have happened.

But there is no doubt that Garp is incredibly strong. On Rogers level, hell no, but strong regardless.

Onomatopoeia
September 05, 2008, 03:02 PM
This chapter developed Luffy so well, he cries when his Nakama leave's. He went crazy when they started leaving and yet at the same time he was able to keep a cool enough head to yell for the remaining SHs to run. I'm pretty sure Luffy when he feels like it is actually one of the smarter SHs.

bebekhappy
September 05, 2008, 03:43 PM
whew...an amazing chapter...all SH was defeated and sent to unknown place(places?), man what an unexpected move from the genius Oda-sensei...i thought if the SH was going to be defeated the New World would be the perfect place. but here, even before reaching the entrance such thing happens.

anyway...when they all sent (saved) by Kuma one by one to someplace and to meet someone there, the first person appear in my mind was Shanks...i know it sounds crazy because when Luffy met Shanks, the story will be near its end, but i can't help but think that way, the way Kuma whispering something to Ray makes me think it has something to do with Shanks LoL

Then it's either Garp or Dragon, but if i have to chose it'd be Dragon.

I like those idea that say they were sent to Dr.Vegapunk place...if you think after this defeat they need to upgrade then Vegapunk's a great choice.

Onomatopoeia
September 05, 2008, 04:10 PM
I hope that Kuma's teleporting power has some sort of drawback, if it doesn't he could probablly Solo WBs crew by himself. I mean if he teleports them for 3 days and three nights all he has to do is wait for them to fall to the ground and Ursa Shock and it's over for a lot of the crew.

ℳαkαἶ ♛ ℇ♏℘ἶɾℯ
September 05, 2008, 04:14 PM
This chapter developed Luffy so well, he cries when his Nakama leave's. He went crazy when they started leaving and yet at the same time he was able to keep a cool enough head to yell for the remaining SHs to run. I'm pretty sure Luffy when he feels like it is actually one of the smarter SHs.

Yeah this chapter just was an other stroke of genius from oda... I mean there couldn´t be possibly a better way, to show us what it means to be part of Luffys crew...
This chapter should be put in every japanese - (insert your language here) dictionary next to the word nakama!!!

I mean Usopp did call Kuma a b**** for warping Zorro away, even so he stands right before him!
And Sanji did criticize himself for letting 2 of his nakamas die (which includes Zorro :p)...

Man i want to join the mugiwaras- even if i had to cut the grass on the deck with a nail scissor all day, just to be of use...

LoS
September 05, 2008, 04:24 PM
I hope that Kuma's teleporting power has some sort of drawback, if it doesn't he could probablly Solo WBs crew by himself. I mean if he teleports them for 3 days and three nights all he has to do is wait for them to fall to the ground and Ursa Shock and it's over for a lot of the crew.

Well we do not know enough about the power to say much at this point. Heck I bet there are fighters out there fast enough to dodge his attack. And what if haki disrupts that attack and nullifies it?

steven0888
September 05, 2008, 04:44 PM
i see the adventure is going more interesting....
however, i dont really get it. about Kuma, i wonder how come he is way much stornger than the last Schibukai .......it doesnot make sense......

Akainu
September 05, 2008, 04:58 PM
I did a little collage with all the Luffyfaces of this chapter (it's been many that I tell you) and looking at that (it's far from perfect with many blank spaces) I realised how worse the situation is. from panel to panel you see desperatness and desperation grow inside and fill him to the point of agony. no matter what and how hard he tries he fails.
and then in the last few panels he even starts to cry which almost seems like he is giving himself up. :(
It doesn't matter much where they go, or if they are seperated, but he should at least have one of his nakama around, because else I think it will be a too hard time for Luffy to get over it. Thus I hope he is drawing the right conclusions, i.e. the will to get stronger and not getting too depressed. Totally unaccounted regarding this is that they never saw Kuma as a friend and never thought of that teleportation as means of escape.

Mr.Popo
September 05, 2008, 05:17 PM
Reality Check
Do you remember? The beginning of this arc (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/496/16/).
Luffy was jumping higher and higher on those bubbles, but in the end they burst and he fell down a long way.
Thats what just happens. Fighting more and more stronger guys and being proud and sure of themselves, now they got a reality check.

Shichibukai
This chapter makes it clear that the Shichibukai are NO subordinates of the marines. They are actually subordinates of the WG directly in parallel to the marines.
So Kuma is not really obedient to the marines, but to the WG.

Kuma
Rayleigh is not relieved to see Kuma, instead he is even more concerned, but can't do anything, because he has more than enough to do with the admiral.
So neither Rayleigh nor the marine where the reason why Kuma is here.

The small conversation with Rayleigh make me belief that it can't be an enemy of Rayleigh.
But it also makes me belief that Kumas primary motive was NOT to save the SHs or to send them to a secure place. Rayleigh is not relieved and even Kuma has doubts in whatever matter it is why he is really there.
And you can't say Kuma deals gently with the SHs.

SHs are NOT save
Having said the above, i repeat: the SHs are not that save as most of you belief.
Look here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/).
Luffy is in dispair, Sentoumaru is perplexed, Kizaru is angry.
But the most important face expression is that of Rayleigh. He is not relieved and glad at all!

On Thriller Bark Oda made sure that we get to know that Kuma knows about the relationship between Luffy and Ace. So his actions might have to do something with it.
But it doesn't reveal the man who is behind all this.

Zorro
Is he on Shabondy Grove 12 just behind Kuma?
Ussop said: "Agh, he (obviously meaning Zorro) just stands there..." (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/05/) and he is not using the past form, but the present form.

mundu_king
September 05, 2008, 05:18 PM
seeing luffy's rection after his nakama vanishing one by one in front of him
its heart breaking...
imagine what's luffy's feeling...
im sure that was what moria feel like when all his nakama turns up dead in the new world...
it change you...
if you're not strong in heart, it could pulls u to the dark side like in the case of Moria
but at least for luffy, he's been teleported too...

Kuma is amazing, for 500+chapters SH survive all challenge yet in the matter of minutes he could settle them all....
Most probably they were teleported to safety

and perhaps they were scattered to a different location,
and when they're back together again, they're much stronger than before...

and it such a strange coincident that sento mention 3days and 3 nights time match perfectly to the time range of coating time...

Oda is amazing in this arc,
it looks so unreal seeing SH got owned easily
they even got beat up by an unimportant character, a pacifista
even when they combine and fight together, they got so worn out by just one person! shocking!!

and it looks even more unreal seeing luffy scream "Lets Run!! RETREAT!!"
its so not luffy, this arc is the first time he behave like that!
first i felt luffy such a lammo!!

Witnessing all tests and fights SH goes through before
I always thought that SH will always win whatever challenges they're facing...(to the point of boring)
and i was wrong!

Its so amazing that Oda made it clear that hero not always win, sometimes hero also lose....
they must know how to handle defeat
and most importantly how to get up and fight stronger

Zoro-kun
September 05, 2008, 05:21 PM
(Note: This post is humongous. Really, I didn't think it would be THIS long. Read it at your own discretion, but I warn you, it's long. I probably should have made it a review...)

What an emotional chapter! This whole fight has been a rising crescendo of emotion as you see the Straw Hats become more and more desperate and more and more aware that they're out of their league, but this... This packs the kind of emotional punch that comes with the greatest scenes in One Piece, such as the death of Merry, Nami's plea for help from Luffy in the Arlong Arc, Robin's "I wanna live!", the end of the Alabasta arc, etc. This chapter can go up there with those scenes.

But the ending of the chapter is incredibly open-ended. Oda could do anything now. Seriously, the story could go basically anywhere. I can make some logical predictions as to what will happen, based on logic and what direction I think the general story is moving in, but there's nothing in the chapter that hints to what is to come next week, or even in the long run. But like I said, I can make some logical predictions, and they are that Kuma didn't send the Straw Hats to Impel Down or anywhere like that. If he wanted them taken out, he would have let the PX-1 kill Usopp. But he didn't, because he doesn't want the Straw Hats dead, he wanted them to get away safely. I would say probably due to his respect for Zoro and his loyalty, or possibly because he knows Dragon and has some sort of debt to him, which he thinks he's paid by rescuing Luffy, but either way, Kuma came to give the Straw Hats a fighting chance. This is also bolstered by the fact that Rayleigh seemed resigned to what Kuma was doing. He certainly came to help the Straw Hats, and he didn't react at all to what Kuma did, leading me to think that Kuma told Rayleigh what he was doing and where the Straw Hats were going, and Rayleigh let it go because Kuma seemed like he was trying to help, and was the only chance the Straw Hats had. Kuma also refused a direct order from a Marine Admiral to explain what he had done. While he was allowed to do this, as he said (which gives us another piece of the nature of the Shichibukai's relationship with the World Government, by the way), it seems out of character for the usually obedient Kuma to invoke such a law to avoid giving a Marine information, especially if he was capturing the Straw Hats. All this makes it seem likely that Kuma has not sent the Straw Hats to Impel Down, or Marine Headquarters, or somewhere like that, but rather, to somewhere where they'll be safe from Kizaru and Sentomaru and can regroup.

The question being: where? And are they together? I have no idea. It can't be too far away from the Sabaody Archipelago, because they need to get Sunny back (Oda won't make them give up Sunny. Franky wouldn't stand for it, they just lost a ship, and Sunny carries the spirit of Merry. Sunny's going to Raftel with the Straw Hats.) So they need to be within traveling distance of the Sabaody Archipelago, and since they don't all have Log Poses and some of them have abysmal navigational skills (I'm looking at you, Zoro and Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/8/02/)), so it has to be close enough to the Sabaody Archipelago that they wouldn't need to do any serious, Log Pose-requiring sailing, especially not alone. This makes me think that they MAY have been sent to: Fishman Island. It's close to the Sabaody Archipelago, close enough that they can just resurface, get Sunny, and cross the Red Line without much traveling. It also saves Oda from having to keep showing the Marine raid on the Sabaody Islands and lets him get to Fishman Island, finally. (Not that I don't love the Sabaody Arc, because I do, I really do, but this would be a very clever shortcut on Oda's part). And finally, Zoro was asked where he wanted to go. Zoro has a very good ability to figure out exactly what needs to be done. It was Zoro who first pinpointed the crux of the situation with Robin in the Water 7 Arc: had she betrayed the Straw Hats or not? (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/340/19/) It was Zoro who was able to see how the matter of Usopp rejoining the crew needed to be dealt with. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/05/) It was Zoro who was prepared for the trap Baroque Works laid for the Straw Hats. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/107/13/) It was Zoro who recognized that defeating Crocodile had to be left to Luffy, while stopping the Army and the Rebels from killing each other was the role for Vivi. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/177/03/) This list goes on, these are just a few examples, but I think they prove my point: Zoro has the ability to assess a situation, recognize what needs to be done, and follow through and do it. I think he may have been able to assess the situation the Straw Hats were in when Kuma asked him where he most wanted to go, and realize where the Straw Hats would be safest at the moment: Fishman Island. They've got connections, through Caimie and Hatchan and Pappug, it's their destination anyway, and it's more or less out of the jurisdiction of the Marines. Zoro may have decided to go there, meaning that he, at least, is (hopefully) safe on Fishman Island.

However, that begs the question of whether the Straw Hats were all sent to the same location. Kuma may have let Zoro choose for the crew, continuing his theme of testing to see if Zoro, as (de-facto) first mate, is ready to bear the burden of captaincy, including choosing the crew's destination. The test would be for Zoro to choose somewhere that would work out for the crew, in which case, Kuma probably sent them all to the same place, since the idea would be for them to make the best of Zoro's choice. Support for this is that he didn't ask the other Straw Hats where they wanted to go, so he might still have been sending them to the location initially chosen by Zoro, but that could very well be me reading things to suit my theory. It might also be that Kuma separated the Straw Hats, and there will now be an arc about how they all find each other again (reminiscent of the "crests" arc of Digimon, where after the Digi-destined split up to look for Tai, there was a whole arc in which they were slowly re-united and they learned how to make their crests light up.) But that would take a HUGE amount of time, since the Straw Hats would all probably need to go through a few mini-arcs until they all managed to re-unite, and only THEN could they go back to the Sabaody Islands, pick up Sunny, and go to Fishman Island. That would take an INCREDIBLY long time (possibly a year's worth of chapters), so I think it's unlikely that the Straw Hats were scattered across the One Piece world. I think at worst, they're scattered across Fishman Island, and they'll have to meet up with each other, but they'll be on the same island. They might even be scattered across different groves of the Sabaody Archipelago, but I don't think that would help keep them safe from the Marine raid, and it seems too easy a solution to be worth Kuma's time.

This chapter also helped reinforce the message that the Straw Hats are FAR from one of the most powerful crews on the Grand Line. They're pretty impressive for rookies. I'd say that by New World standards, they're about average. But they have a LONG way to go before they're powerful enough to conquer the Grand Line. I think everyone, the fans, the characters, even the Straw hats themselves (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/04/) have been a bit overconfident in the Straw Hats' strength ever since the Enies Lobby Incident. Well, their bubble of hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris) has been well and truly burst. Like the chapter said, they were utterly defeated. The Straw Hats need to get much stronger, to get much more comfortable with their existing techniques, and to develop new techniques and strategies, if they want to make it in the New World. If you notice, Luffy's line on the second to last page of this chapter, "I couldn't protect a single crew-mate", seems parallel to Luffy's speech about why he created Gear 2nd. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) He developed Gear 2nd so he could protect his crew, but it's still not enough. Luffy needs to become more proficient in the usage of Gear, he needs to get stronger, if he wants to protect his crew in the New World. All of the Straw Hats do. Hopefully, whatever they have to do to re-unite (if that's necessary) and get back to Sunny (which IS necessary), helps them realize that they need to have a realistic assesment of their own strength and helps them start to get stronger.

Luffy also needs to learn to keep his calm a bit better. He's been slowly growing better at making responsible decisions as a captain throughout the series, but he can still snap and go completely wild, which makes it a bit easier for him to be defeated, which leaves his crew without his protection. Hopefully, as well as getting stronger, Luffy will also improve his ability to deal with stressful situations in a calm, commanding, captain-like manner, which is also a huge skill that he'll need to master if he wants to be a major player in the New World.

And finally, I'm curious about Kuma's parting words to Luffy. "We will not be seeing one another again..." Does Kuma think that the Straw Hats won't be able to survive wherever he's sending them to? Does he think he's paid off any debt he may possibly have, and therefore won't be coming to bail the Straw Hats out again? (It was this line that led me to theorize that Kuma saved the Straw Hats to pay some sort of debt to Dragon.) Does he think that the Straw Hats will survive, but won't manage to get back together and once again become a pirate crew worthy of the notice of a Shichibukai? And if it's any one of these reasons, WHY? I don't know, but I'm sure that Kuma's reasons for coming to the Straw Hats now, and therefore, his reasons for thinking that he and Luffy won't see each other again, will be revealed later in the story, perhaps when we find out more about Kuma, or we see what ends up becoming of the Straw Hats. It's something to ponder for now. My hopes are set EXTREMELY high for where this story's gonna go, and I can't wait to see which of the many, many possible paths for the story to follow is picked by Oda. I think that this arc is about to get beyond amazing.


Nice m8. You got ur theories.. :) some1 pretty easy predictable, and some more wild... like the one about zoro chosing where he's going... im not saying it's wrong, caus i dont know, but i just find that a little wierd. Just look at page 4, and the wierdlooking guy says that: "only the responsible can know, but it wont be here on this island".

I didn't read it all, but out of experience, i know that Oda is reading all of our posts, and the craziest theroy we haven't mentioned in our posts, happens in his next chapter. Oda is almost unpredictable, and it is like u said at the start of ur post, it's a very open-ending at this chapter, EVERYTHING can happen, so i suggest we all just sit back and w8 for the next week's chapter.. ^^ peace out

k-dom
September 05, 2008, 05:25 PM
About what Kuma said to Rayleigh. It is obviously not only the place where he sent the SH, since he cannot have doubts on that matter. Is it the reason why he saved the SH or is it something wrt world governement, ODA only knows
Concerning the SH destination I doubt it is mermaid island, since it is underwater (and Kuma power shall not be effective to go there)

Fox666
September 05, 2008, 05:26 PM
Prediction:

Whitebeard lost, and offered his head to save Ace. That's why Kuma isn't no more in the confront, it ended.
Kuma put Luffy aside because he know Ace is his brother, and what happen with one can change the mind of another, and he want the less problem as possible.

Zoro-kun
September 05, 2008, 05:56 PM
imo you're reading way to much into it. Rayleigh was already called "dark king" or "hades" as some translated it some chapters ago and has nothing to do with the relationship of Kuma and Rayleigh.

to what he said I think it could be a profane thing like "I think they will be safe where I sent them" and beign asked if that was reliable he had to admit that he isn't all too sure about... on the other hand it wouldn't be dramatically enough for such a climactic chapter.

Well, to me it looks like they at least know each other... but that rayleight dont fully trust him. But i mean, what other possible explinations are there for Kuma to kneel? it's like 2-3 meter between them even though Kuma kneels, so to me it looks like they're having some sort of mind-conversation, OR that Oda didn't want US know know what they where talking about, but that's not a reason for Kuma to kneel, so i still belive Kuma has deep respect for Rayleight.

I mean, you dont call a person "DARK KING" unless u have utterly respect for the guy. rest my case...
[hr]

Zorro
Is he on Shabondy Grove 12 just behind Kuma?
Ussop said: "Agh, he (obviously meaning Zorro) just stands there..." (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/05/) and he is not using the past form, but the present form.

Acctually i think Usopp is referring to Kuma. Caus if u take a closer look u can see that the Kuma behind Usopp is not the real Kuma.. here (http://http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/02-03/)
can u see the picture of the 2 Kuma's (1 infront and 1 behind Usopp).

I dont really get the other things ur writing... didn't make much sense to me "reality check" and stuff... well well, 1 things 4 sure, Zoro is NOT standing behind Kuma. ^^
[hr]

Prediction:

Whitebeard lost, and offered his head to save Ace. That's why Kuma isn't no more in the confront, it ended.
Kuma put Luffy aside because he know Ace is his brother, and what happen with one can change the mind of another, and he want the less problem as possible.

1 word: LOL (no offence)

Devil-buster
September 05, 2008, 06:03 PM
Prediction:

Whitebeard lost, and offered his head to save Ace. That's why Kuma isn't no more in the confront, it ended.
Kuma put Luffy aside because he know Ace is his brother, and what happen with one can change the mind of another, and he want the less problem as possible.

Its not been long since ace execution was decided...a day or 2 to the most...I really dont think the war will be over in that short time.....also when the guy from the auction called donflamingo it didnt seem like he was in the middle of a war and that was barely a day ago.....so the war hasnt happened yet......

Kuma is the cause he has his own reasons.....as he said SA is a marine matter and not a WG matter so he doesnt really have to obey orders....but wat ever his reason we will know sometime...probably from rayleigh

slippy
September 05, 2008, 06:11 PM
he's kneeling so that kizaru cant hear him, obviously. and we the viewers are left to guess what hes talking to rayleigh about because it builds the anticipation and assumptions.

camil222
September 05, 2008, 06:49 PM
wat do u guys think kuma told rayleigh? to keep on coating their coat and not to interfere?

shibigoku
September 05, 2008, 06:59 PM
The strawhats have never been in a training per say. They all get stronger in their own way. All of them following a master or learning a technique like cp9 is not for this crew. For example, Sanji and Zoro are well capable of using Soru yet they are not using it.

There's a definite line between training and wisdom and the strawhats go for the latter when it comes to getting stronger but this time around it won't cut it. All there cards are laid out. No more hidden techniques and they've purge their last strenght. I don't know what the mangaka will come up to but I can't wait.

Franky needs to tweak himself stronger. Robin needs more stamina and discover her fruit's true potential. Zoro needs to heal and develop a new technique? (? is cuz I just don't know what he can come up with). The same goes with Sanji but what can be better than diable jambe? Usopp / Nami need a weapon upgrade. Chopper will devellop a better rumble ball. Brook and Luffy also need to find their fruits true potential. Even though they are all abnormaly resilient to damage, they need an upgrade in that factor too. This manga just breached the 10/10 limit.

varsas
September 05, 2008, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure about Chopper developing a better rumble ball but I think he can definitely learn to use his fruit ability better.

Btw how do you think people for a post?

Andonan
September 05, 2008, 07:13 PM
Isn't anyone else really depressed? Didn't people read those chapter ending comments "the SH pirates completely defeated AND SEPARATED!" I hope Oda isn't going to take the "crap RPG route" by which we have to play all the "crew collection" stories all over again just to stall for time.... I doubt it but it would be annoying if 200 chapters now pass and we are just back to the same place again, but who knows......besides we've never really seen the SH defeated before, with the exception of Aokiji :(

Onomatopoeia
September 05, 2008, 07:15 PM
I could see Chopper learning how to use the Monster Monster fruit. That thing could be amazingly useful if he didn't go berserk every time he used it.

And of course were all depressed by what happened recently Andonan, but it seems that the crew being split up is unavoidable but thats not exactly a bad thing. Look at Skypeia all the SHs splitting up was really good. Or Ennies Lobby, they may not have completely split up but their were defintely multiple groups.

But reallly the most tearjerking thing this chapter was Luffy he was just so...sad!

Sagemaster2000
September 05, 2008, 07:21 PM
SHs are NOT save
Having said the above, i repeat: the SHs are not that save as most of you belief.
Look here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/).
Luffy is in dispair, Sentoumaru is perplexed, Kizaru is angry.
But the most important face expression is that of Rayleigh. He is not relieved and glad at all!


Ray's face is just what it is suppose to be, blank. He cannot show emotion, especially after hearing what Kuma had to say. Don't you think Kizaru would be looking at both Ray and Kuma's face after the exchange of secrative words?

If Kuma told me in secret at that moment that, for argument sake, the SH are all transported to ????? (a safe place) I would not show any relieved emotion about it at all...or else Kizaru/Sent might catch on...




Zorro
Is he on Shabondy Grove 12 just behind Kuma?
Ussop said: "Agh, he (obviously meaning Zorro) just stands there..." (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/05/) and he is not using the past form, but the present form.

Zorro is not standing anywhere, he is gone just like the rest of them. Ussop was referring to the REAL Kuma, although in that scene it shows the Pacifista in back of Ussop ready to beam him, that is when Kuma makes that Pacifista dissapear as well.

Kanzen Shinkiro
September 05, 2008, 08:15 PM
I believe they were all simply sent back to the ship and will be left confused as to what actually happened. Also, I believe Kuma isn't exactly one to follow the governments orders. His being a sea lord doesn't make him just some loyal pawn. I bet his is probably linked to more than what we know. Maybe even linked to Whitebeard, Shanks or Roger himself. As the Black King seemed to be familiar with Kuma, I'm inclined to believe the two are at least somewhat acquainted. Kuma is probably some sort of sleeper agent. But we will see soon enough. But I don't think Luffy and co. are permanently separated and that at best, they were probably sent to their ship or Fisherman island.

amizou
September 05, 2008, 08:33 PM
stop trying to guess where the members of the crew are, just because they will stay flying for the next 3days and nights, thats how oda will make the 3 coating days pass, and for the next few chapters, he will just concentrate on the war between the WG and WB crew, and maybe a rumor that will travel the whole world telling that mugiwara are finally down

JC123
September 05, 2008, 08:33 PM
It was said that Kuma was the most loyal to the government. I'm surprised he didn't answer Kizaru but I guess it makes sense.

I believe after this arc, they'll have to look for each other again. Maybe they're in small 2-3 people groups with Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji by themselves in some way.

But just looking at what Kuma has said, I'm to believe that they ARE scattered for their own good. The biggest complaint about the SH crew is how powerful they were together. It would make sense that they grow stronger in smaller units before coming together again.

magichouse
September 05, 2008, 08:41 PM
great chapter, it was really an emotional one.

i agree with everyone else, that the follow chapters will probably lead into training the SH crew.

but i think oda is setting it up so that each character will train and develop individually. as the each character will not most likely not end up in the same place.

i think this is a great chance for oda to do some character growth for each member of the SH individually, and in during that train and come up with new techinques :D

wing_gundam
September 05, 2008, 09:34 PM
I could see Chopper learning how to use the Monster Monster fruit. That thing could be amazingly useful if he didn't go berserk every time he used it.


But reallly the most tearjerking thing this chapter was Luffy he was just so...sad!


Chopper has the human human fruit... but if you mean learning how to be a monster in form but concious so he can use it regularly in battle that's something else.



stop trying to guess where the members of the crew are, just because they will stay flying for the next 3days and nights, thats how oda will make the 3 coating days pass, and for the next few chapters, he will just concentrate on the war between the WG and WB crew, and maybe a rumor that will travel the whole world telling that mugiwara are finally down


I agree with this post the most...

Thought I wonder if maybe they'll all meet up at Vegapunks... that's my predicion. Might have to beat up the Sentamaru guy later.. then off to fishman's isle.

sharingan_kakashi
September 05, 2008, 09:51 PM
I guess my prediction of them ending up in Shakky's bar is wrong. It clearly said that they will appear "anywhere but here" - sentoumaru
And damn that ending was too sad. First, that was the first time Luffy was utterly defeated that he was reduced to tears. I mean he has cried in the past but this one is tears of self-pity. That is rough, he is the captain yet he cannot save a single crew member.
And second, the crew might end up separating. I know it said at the end that they are but some might land close enough to reform and find the rest of the team. I dont know how in hell they would do that but who knows.
On a different note, I am curious as to what will happen to PX1. HE could end up as a pile of scrap metal on Vegapunks doorstep or Kuma might have some plans for him.

To summarize, the SH are super weak and will need to get stronger to be able to survive in the NW.

Risen
September 05, 2008, 10:50 PM
OMG this is one of the best OP chapter I have ever read!

Luffy seeing his nakamas get owned and he can do nothing about it...

I'm glad that Oda didn't did the cliche when the main character takes strength from the air and wins the battle.Enies Lobby is acceptable... fishman island it wasn't possible, kizaro on the island plus 21333333423423x pacifistas kumas.

Just AWESOME!

Can't wait till next friday.

dmnt3d
September 05, 2008, 11:17 PM
I'm pretty sure they are not on the Sunny-Go. That would totally Wreck the ship - just imagine Monster Chopper Inside Sunny-GO. hehe

Shiro-kun
September 06, 2008, 12:09 AM
A Totally surprising chapter, Oda managed to give a even bigger surprise than the last few chapters which is again very amazing.

Right now i dont know what to predict, its pretty much that anything can happen right now isnt it?
What Kuma did to the Straw Hats is beyond me..he could of transported them safely to Sunny or Seperated them to different places.


But I also wonder whats going to happen to Kuma and Rayliegh or Kizaru and Sentoumaru now, is this the last we see them for a while?

Onomatopoeia
September 06, 2008, 12:26 AM
I agree with above theirs not much we can predict, theirs way to much we don't know about. We can't even make an educated guess about anything.

As for Ray well he's definetely got Kizaru and Sentou on his back. Not to sure about Kuma the guy's a wild card. I can't imagine the Marine's just letting someone as important as Rayleigh just go. I can imagine him giving himself up to the Marine's.

Devil-buster
September 06, 2008, 12:34 AM
I agree with above theirs not much we can predict, theirs way to much we don't know about. We can't even make an educated guess about anything.

As for Ray well he's definetely got Kizaru and Sentou on his back. Not to sure about Kuma the guy's a wild card. I can't imagine the Marine's just letting someone as important as Rayleigh just go. I can imagine him giving himself up to the Marine's.

I dont think WG will risk capturing rayleigh now.....if the news of rayleigh's capture reaches shanks, he might decide to move against WG and attack ID at the same time as WB...certainly it is gonna be a lot harder for WG to fend off two yonkou than one....I think smart people like garp or sengoku will not let this happen.....hence they may let rayleigh go for now....atleast now they know his location....

ZeroChrome
September 06, 2008, 12:51 AM
But the ending of the chapter is incredibly open-ended. Oda could do anything now. Seriously, the story could go basically anywhere. I can make some logical predictions as to what will happen, based on logic and what direction I think the general story is moving in, but there's nothing in the chapter that hints to what is to come next week, or even in the long run.

agreed. Oda really did well on this. anything can happen now after this kind of ending and Oda can create any kind story without us readers will feel that it is a bit too far-fetched from what happened now.



The question being: where? And are they together? I have no idea. It can't be too far away from the Sabaody Archipelago, because they need to get Sunny back (Oda won't make them give up Sunny. Franky wouldn't stand for it, they just lost a ship, and Sunny carries the spirit of Merry. Sunny's going to Raftel with the Straw Hats.) So they need to be within traveling distance of the Sabaody Archipelago, and since they don't all have Log Poses and some of them have abysmal navigational skills (I'm looking at you, Zoro and Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/8/02/)), so it has to be close enough to the Sabaody Archipelago that they wouldn't need to do any serious, Log Pose-requiring sailing, especially not alone. This makes me think that they MAY have been sent to: Fishman Island. It's close to the Sabaody Archipelago, close enough that they can just resurface, get Sunny, and cross the Red Line without much traveling. It also saves Oda from having to keep showing the Marine raid on the Sabaody Islands and lets him get to Fishman Island, finally. (Not that I don't love the Sabaody Arc, because I do, I really do, but this would be a very clever shortcut on Oda's part).

not that I'm denying ur idea because the probability is still there. but if they really are floating on air for 3 days and nights, then how will they end up in Fishmen Island? remember, the FI is 10000m below sea level (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/496/12/) and it is directly below Mariejoa which also means it's directly below the Red Line (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/496/11/). We don't really know how they actually "float" in the sky. whether in straight line upwards or in random direction like crazy flies :p. But with your explanation being that that's the "clever shortcut" from Oda, with Ray just need to bring Sunny to FI, it certainly is a possibility that they'll ended up in FI. though my guess will still be an unknown island (to us readers) but known to Kuma and Rayleigh.

for the next chapter, other than the WB v WG incident, another thing we'll be brought to is probably about the rest of the Supernovas. I certainly wanted to know whether they manage to get away from the Marines and get into the NW safely or not.

redhairSH
September 06, 2008, 01:12 AM
well it seems to be a lil more than a coincidence that they're gonna floating on air for the exact amount of time that they need to keep from getting captured and get their ship coated, and kuma didnt really hurt the straw hats, he saved ussop from the px1, and he saved the crew from being captured, i just wanna know wat he said to rayleigh

shon3n
September 06, 2008, 01:29 AM
very very shocking chapter,

I never relize that SH's power difference is that far away.

I felt like my heart go down to a gulch with deep never ending land.

so depression

Fox666
September 06, 2008, 01:53 AM
Well, just think about it, what are the possible reason for Kuma be there, instead of be in the headquarters?

- He came with Garp, that explain the conversation with Raileigh. Possible, but not probably, as Garp said the headquarters where already taking care of a legend (or two, ambiguous sentence).
- He personally came for Dragon or Raileigh. Not makes sense, since he was going to kill the Strawhats at first hand.
- The connection between the fight with Whitebeard and Strawhats is Ace. Kuma did asked about Luffy in Thrilliar Bark.

And the fact is (I think) that Kuma just wanted the Strawhats far far away as fast as possible.

k-dom
September 06, 2008, 03:34 AM
not that I'm denying ur idea because the probability is still there. but if they really are floating on air for 3 days and nights, then how will they end up in Fishmen Island? remember, the FI is 10000m below sea level (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/496/12/) and it is directly below Mariejoa which also means it's directly below the Red Line (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/496/11/). We don't really know how they actually "float" in the sky. whether in straight line upwards or in random direction like crazy flies :p. But with your explanation being that that's the "clever shortcut" from Oda, with Ray just need to bring Sunny to FI, it certainly is a possibility that they'll ended up in FI. though my guess will still be an unknown island (to us readers) but known to Kuma and Rayleigh.


Fishman island is the last place I imagine them. It is out of reach with devil fruit power and they can not survive the journey without the archipelago bubbles protection

gold349
September 06, 2008, 03:34 AM
That chapter showed Luffy as he is, all round heart. He used gear second to try snatch even one of his nakama from before kuma but all failing, jet pistol was used just for speed to save franky I think and kuma deflected it he was one desperate captain, this defeat will teach them a lot but luffy plan was good, lets run for now, even if a few of us get away, we can do something about the other nakama later.

Akainu
September 06, 2008, 03:34 AM
Well, to me it looks like they at least know each other... but that rayleight dont fully trust him. But i mean, what other possible explinations are there for Kuma to kneel? it's like 2-3 meter between them even though Kuma kneels, so to me it looks like they're having some sort of mind-conversation, OR that Oda didn't want US know know what they where talking about, but that's not a reason for Kuma to kneel, so i still belive Kuma has deep respect for Rayleight.

I mean, you dont call a person "DARK KING" unless u have utterly respect for the guy. rest my case...

means: all the world has very much respect for Rayleigh from obvious reasons, even the marines in ranks of (vize-)admirals like Garp (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/501/02/) and Kizaru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/18-19/). following that the rule should be, anyone who knows Ray should bow down, especially those who can't match him. and about calling someone "dark king" ... imo that's just a nickname like "blackleg" or "surgeon of death" or even "god" with the difference that there is a "king" involved, but these are just opinions I suppose.

contrary to that I think it's plausible for Oda to let Kuma kneel down so that he doesn't have to talk nearly as loud, especially when Kizaru still is around and almost the same distance away. not to mention that it is an important part of the cliffhanger end this time, that we don't really know on who's side Kuma is and what he is up to. that's building up suspense

d3death
September 06, 2008, 03:41 AM
Ok As expected an un-expected chapter :amuse

ok personally i think that kuma is helping SH

the only thing that is bugging me is the final text

"THE CREW SCATTERED" :(

i was hoping that they will end up some place together.

-----
P.S: Does anyone knows who exactly has the Ray's Card?

Darek Khort
September 06, 2008, 04:07 AM
Perhaps Kuma sent them to different places based on which hand he touched them with. It will so happen that those with a peice of Ray's Card will be grouped where one person in each group has Ray's Card. I'm assuming that means around 3 groups. I don't think they went far though. Perhaps even Luffy's group will be near the Jail. Perhaps even Admiral HQ (which is on top of the red line overlooking where they were.

And I think what Kuma said to Kizaru about not telling him anything simply has something to do with how the WG perhaps views the Marines as simply their 'showcase' military power and a way to show the world that they are in fact 'good'.
It's like how, say Hitler (I know, bad example) doesn't need to convey his master plans to his soldiers.

BlackHair
September 06, 2008, 04:13 AM
My theory:
Well, there was probably a reason why the coating takes 3 days and as well Kumas ability to send ppl 3 days flying. I guess in the 3 dasy Oda will focus outside of the SHs, e.g WBs vs Shichi (probably + Marine) War.

Shakky had one sheet of the vivre card. Here we can see it in 3 divided papers (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/12/). And Luffy divided the groups after beating the Px4 into 3 groups. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/09/) Since everything is about "3", I guess the SHs are scattered in 3 groups and will eventually find together at the end of the 3 days.

NaruJunky
September 06, 2008, 04:13 AM
The last several chapters are not simply amazing, this last chapter is more than EPIC, this is a work of art that will be remembered for ages. I think our grandchildren will be taught of this masterpiece in schools. Oda sensei should receive the grand Oscar prize with the Pulitzer or whatever prize to acknowledge his ingeniousness.

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 04:23 AM
Im pretty sure this will happen:

- 3 days has past(and 3 nights), we get to see an Island (Vegapunk's Island).

- We're not seeing the SH crew, but we're seeing 100's of dead Kuma PX's...

- And every single one of these Kumas has been defeaten by the SH's, and now they're all gotten stronger and devoloped. (Luffy has his gear 4 and 5 by now!!^^)

Sachsenhesse
September 06, 2008, 04:49 AM
Why you all think this makes luffy stronger and he stays by the crew? It was the worst possible moment in luffys life to see all of his nakama vanshining before his eyes. I personally expect that he will take a pause for being the captain because he couldnt save anyone and such a captain is in his eyes nothing worth. So we are all was thinking it becomes an rescue zoro arc, but right now it seems to me like a "make luffy again the captain arc".

Yabe
September 06, 2008, 05:01 AM
Don't think Kuma told Rayleigh where to pick up the SHs now since Kuma even doubted about it; but whatever it was it's got to cause the event turns around.

Perhaps even Kuma doesn't know the exact place the crews would end up at so he thought he'd never see them again. Sentoumaru also said "only the man responsible can know about the destination".

I think Rayleigh looked half-doubt half-trusted. This page (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/12/) also made me feel as if Kuma didn't plan to erase everyone in the crews at the beginning.

If only we know Kuma's true intention or the purpose of him coming to this islands, the predicting works couldn't turn tough for us like this.

I think there's a forcing cause - some turn of event perhaps at the HQ/Mariejoa, perhaps about the execution situation we've yet to know but maybe Oda will reveal us in the next chapter and we may see a few clues to Kuma's honest will.

Koen
September 06, 2008, 05:08 AM
This chapter was so complete. One by one they vanished, one by one luffy had to see how his nakama are his nakama. Though crying out to run away, they one by one protected each other and disappeared. Luffy just had to face this all and the obviously, only thing he could do was not leaving his nakama alone. Thus he decided to let kuma transport him away. It was also great to see raleigh's reaction. It's as if he faced or has experienced a similar thing.

Anyway what suprised me the most was kuma's way ot talking. The admiral obviously didn't expect the real kuma to be there and then kuma whispers something. Raleigh asked himself to believe this thing. Kuma answers even I have doubt in this matters.

So it seems kuma must have saved them but what, when and where

Darek Khort
September 06, 2008, 05:17 AM
What about Garp? :C
Oda couldn't have shown him for no reason at all but now the SHs are gone so there seems to be no point in Garp's appearance...unless he is to be involved in something, say, 3 days later.
Perhaps Kizaru leaves for the WB fight and Garp stays behind so that when the SHs eventually come back to get their ship they'll have to fight Garp.

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 05:24 AM
Why you all think this makes luffy stronger and he stays by the crew? It was the worst possible moment in luffys life to see all of his nakama vanshining before his eyes. I personally expect that he will take a pause for being the captain because he couldnt save anyone and such a captain is in his eyes nothing worth. So we are all was thinking it becomes an rescue zoro arc, but right now it seems to me like a "make luffy again the captain arc".

im 1000000000% sure that will NOT happen. Is it 1 thing we can know 4 sure, is it that Luffy will NEVER EVER!! let his Nakamas down. I felt i acctually got a little angry with u, saying something THAT stupid.. no offence.

BTW:
3 days has past(and 3 nights), we get to see an Island (Vegapunk's Island).

We're not seeing the SH crew, but we're seeing 100's of dead Kuma PX's...

And every single one of these Kumas has been defeaten by the SH's, and now they're all gotten stronger and devoloped. (Luffy has his gear 4 and 5 by now!!^^)

Dont any1 think this acctually can happen? I mean, we've all agreed that the SH's need to become much stronger, and then i asked myself "how", and "who will they be fighting to get stronger"... Kuma pacifictas...................................... say no more.. ^^
__________________

Sachsenhesse
September 06, 2008, 05:32 AM
im 1000000000% sure that will NOT happen. Is it 1 thing we can know 4 sure, is it that Luffy will NEVER EVER!! let his Nakamas down. I felt i acctually got a little angry with u, saying something THAT stupid.. no offence.

BTW:
3 days has past(and 3 nights), we get to see an Island (Vegapunk's Island).

We're not seeing the SH crew, but we're seeing 100's of dead Kuma PX's...

And every single one of these Kumas has been defeaten by the SH's, and now they're all gotten stronger and devoloped. (Luffy has his gear 4 and 5 by now!!^^)

Dont any1 think this acctually can happen? I mean, we've all agreed that the SH's need to become much stronger, and then i asked myself "how", and "who will they be fighting to get stronger"... Kuma pacifictas...................................... say no more.. ^^
__________________


Ah come on which is worser for luffy, take his nakamas on a trip where he not can guarantee there safiety and lend them into dead or first become stronger by himself so he can protect them? Just imagine he will now meet shanks, could he look him in the eyes with the thought of this defeat?

Luffy isnt the guy who will let his nakamas down, thats because i think he will for a moment let the strawhats be and then unify them again which much more power then before. :/

Yabe
September 06, 2008, 05:43 AM
What about Garp? :C
Oda couldn't have shown him for no reason at all but now the SHs are gone so there seems to be no point in Garp's appearance...unless he is to be involved in something, say, 3 days later.
Perhaps Kizaru leaves for the WB fight and Garp stays behind so that when the SHs eventually come back to get their ship they'll have to fight Garp.

I'm the few ones who still think Garp's statement "I'll handle it myself", then "we can't handle that right now, are you suggesting the marines taking on two legends at the same time" (that line's in the heart now xD) wasn't enough foreshadowing that he'd come to the Shabondy. The scene was at the beginning of that chapter Drake saw the news about Ace execution too. It's also fit to have Garp talked about the two legends to give us the expectation for WB's certain coming to rescue Ace or WG's full preparation for the matter.

It's possible that the old man will turn in but not necessary (we might see him fight Rayleigh in the next event, I'd also still like to see Rayleigh's making appearance more in the battlefields in the future - cos somehow it looked like his battle with Kizaru's stopped right there, and cos Kizaru said something like he should be more prepared to encounter with Rayleigh I don't think he'll be so determine in capturing Ray here). Also, if Garp's really about to get involved with the SHs later there's still doubts he'll take a serious fight with Luffy & the crews... personally I believe he wouldn't be in the list of SH's opponent. I think Oda plans Garp's match to be Rayleigh.

JC123
September 06, 2008, 06:11 AM
Don't think Kuma told Rayleigh where to pick up the SHs now since Kuma even doubted about it; but whatever it was it's got to cause the event turns around.

Perhaps even Kuma doesn't know the exact place the crews would end up at so he thought he'd never see them again. Sentoumaru also said "only the man responsible can know about the destination".

I think Rayleigh looked half-doubt half-trusted. This page (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/12/) also made me feel as if Kuma didn't plan to erase everyone in the crews at the beginning.

If only we know Kuma's true intention or the purpose of him coming to this islands, the predicting works couldn't turn tough for us like this.

I think there's a forcing cause - some turn of event perhaps at the HQ/Mariejoa, perhaps about the execution situation we've yet to know but maybe Oda will reveal us in the next chapter and we may see a few clues to Kuma's honest will.

No one imagined Luffy would punch a Tenryuubito. I don't know where Kuma would take them but they got there and they're most likely in two or three groups based on which hand they were touched with. At least that's what I feel.

For Kuma to risk so much for the SHs says he really respects them. He has done a LOT because of what both Sanji and Zoro did. So I know their adventure will be challenging but how they will come back, I have no idea...

DAMN YOU ODA FOR BEING THIS GOOD!!!

Superman
September 06, 2008, 06:14 AM
Someone her on MH said for a few days that he think Garp sended Kuma.
Got it?
(Since Garp knows Reileigh is on the island he wanna get Luffy out of there. Look back how Garp talked about Shanks and how he hated the fact that Luffy cares about him).
But i truly think Garp sended Kuma to get Luffy and co. out of Kizarus,Sentos and Px fangs
[hr]


DAMN YOU ODA FOR BEING THIS GOOD!!!

Exacly dammit :D:p:grin

gbgej
September 06, 2008, 06:20 AM
Gosh can a day after a pub round start any better than with this OP Chapter eh? :D

Anyways i havnt read all comments as i usually do so sorry if i repeat what someone else have said.

Rayleigh sure is one hell of a guy, hes fighting an admiral and in the scanlation i read (from binktopia) he said "I'd like to lend them a hand, but im not as young as i used to be" This really gives us a hint how strong rogers crew was (as if we already didnt know) , i really give credit to Rayleigh i mean he was rogers first mate, meaning roger was possibly stronger (not sure due to the disease so in the end it might have been rayleigh that was the strongest in the crew.) Anyhow, Rayleigh is fighting and admiral, and uses that sentence, there is one thing about saying it, anyone could, though Rayleigh really means it, i dont even want to imagine how strong Rayleigh was in his prime days.

I also read someones post about Kuma kneeling before Rayleigh when he speaks to him (not sure if its been answered). It might be due to respect, but its quite obvious that Kuma is telling something of great importance to Rayleigh, and wouldnt be to smart if Kuma wich is one of the biggest persons we have seen so far (apart from the giants) would be telling secrets standing. Since he would have to yell or speak quite loud so Kizaru would most likley hear what he would be saying. And not to much of a secret if everyone knows about it right?


The as for the predictions for the future chapters. I believe it seems most logical to get to see some from the WB/Ace incident, and i really dont hope its a 3 days jump down and the SHs land somewhere random or at SA. Really hard to predict where they will land, but imo i think these predictions some have done with "they are meeting with someone strong and will recieve training arc" Is quite crappy. Would be all to DB/naruto lookalike. Might be that Rayleigh explains some about his Haki but not more hopefully. Aswell i really dont hope we will get to see like the SHs bouncing around in the sky for 3 days either, wouldnt be to fun. Though the Strawhats will obviously get stronger but im putting my bets on that they wont go from "300 billion beri to like 600 billion, it will be the good old "fight a stronger opponent and get a 50 billion beri raise, even though might be a bit more now in the new world.

Though one thing that have crossed my mind is we havnt seen Kid and Law for a while wich everyone probably is aware of. And the last time we saw them they were going to go quite hard on Kuma/Px *number*. Though now later in the chapters when actually the real Kuma have appeard, could it be that Kid and Law perhaps fought the real Kuma and that he did send them flying for 3 days aswell to prevent them from being captured?/killed or so from kizaru? Wouldnt that make quite sense since we havnt seen them for a while?

wing_gundam
September 06, 2008, 07:34 AM
Why you all think this makes luffy stronger and he stays by the crew? It was the worst possible moment in luffys life to see all of his nakama vanshining before his eyes. I personally expect that he will take a pause for being the captain because he couldnt save anyone and such a captain is in his eyes nothing worth. So we are all was thinking it becomes an rescue zoro arc, but right now it seems to me like a "make luffy again the captain arc".

It's possible...

I was half expecting Luffy to go G4 or something and show us what true power is - as he goes insane to get his nakama back. But I think Oda wanted to show us something else.

Notice how easily Luffy can go G2 and G3 now? In this one day - ie the auction - he's done it when fighting the marines, fighting PX-4, and fighting sentamaru and now against Kuma.... he's an f-ing machine... fully adapted to the strains of the gears ('cept that it temporarily makes him tired or makes him small).

djleathal186
September 06, 2008, 07:46 AM
im quite agree with u shadowmaniac.in addition, kuma do all those thing because maybe something related to moria.
world government take it seriously about the defeat and i think luffy's crew need to get hide somehow.they face alot of battle, and win in all battle are quite impossible.
kuma knows that kizaru will not stop hunting luffy's crew if kuma doesn't use his power to disappear all luffy's crew.thats a big relieve for luffy and kizaru will stop chasing them for a while and fight ray seriously.
i think luffy's bounty is increased and kizaru known about it.
that's why he straight to find luffy after he defeated the other pirates which he just passing by.

i cant wait to see the next chapter..
and i hope in the future Rayleigh will be teaching luffy how to use the spirit power and i think a very great technique will appear soon.
maybe gear 4.who knows.its just my opinion.
or maybe rayleigh will follow luffy to the next island.

k-dom
September 06, 2008, 07:50 AM
Someone her on MH said for a few days that he think Garp sended Kuma.
Got it?
(Since Garp knows Reileigh is on the island he wanna get Luffy out of there. Look back how Garp talked about Shanks and how he hated the fact that Luffy cares about him).
But i truly think Garp sended Kuma to get Luffy and co. out of Kizarus,Sentos and Px fangs
<hr noshade size="1">


This is not valid anymore, since Garp is a marine. And Kuma has just told us what he makes of marine orders.

Host Samurai
September 06, 2008, 07:56 AM
This chapter is one of the best chapters so far!!

Sanji & Luffy freakin out because they felt useless was painful to see. But this experience will help them to get stronger.
Kuma is a beast he destroyed the SH and send them away. I mean that guy skipped the meeting only for taking out the SH for what purpose?
Kuma is definetly working for someone....

Akainu
September 06, 2008, 08:07 AM
No one imagined Luffy would punch a Tenryuubito.
really? I'm quite sure, that it was clear he would, right after Hacchan begging him not to do it whatever happens.



DAMN YOU ODA FOR BEING THIS GOOD!!!
agree on that ^^
also on the part with the paws, alas that would be 2 not 3 groups ... is there perhaps some special way he hits them (from front or the sides) to differentiate that?

and where did he sent the PX1? because if it is with the SH (or one group of them) they finally could study it (assuming that through that one blow it's defeated).

furthermore, there is the problem of monster point. how long does it go on?
however based on this I think IF there are going to be groups every group should have A) one of those who were shown with a vivre-card. B) one of the problematic three (zoro, who was down before getting pawed, chopper, and Luffy who I suppose will have the like-Usopp-I-am-not-good-enough-itis).

Ustegius
September 06, 2008, 08:25 AM
Gosh can a day after a pub round start any better than with this OP Chapter eh? :D


Voted for the ultimate Truth. :D

This is just crazy, I won't predict anything now, 'cause almost anything can happen. But the time-skip still somehow fascinates me. I mean, even one of the early Romance Dawns ended with a time-skip, showing adult Luffy and his crew (Btw, "Buggy" was part of the crew in that version ^^)

gold349
September 06, 2008, 09:09 AM
I hope we find out what Kuma says to Raleigh, what ever it was, is a situation that even Kuma doesn't know if its true, he himself has doubts in the matter, shishibukai should be convening at head quarters is what Kizaru said so this WB vs shishibukai battle seems as if its going to happen or is it this situation that he has just informed Raleigh of and he isn't to sure if its going to happen?.

Host Samurai
September 06, 2008, 09:13 AM
So did Kuma separate the SH from each other individually or are they split into small groups because Kuma used for Zoro, Nami, Chopper, Robin, Franky & Luffy his right hand and for the others including PX-1 his left hand. And I forgot that Chopper is still in Monster Point mode wherever he is he'll keep destroying.

So I predict for the upcoming chapters that we will see the big boys.The WB pirates vs. the 7 Warlords I hope that Oda will reveal the final Warlord that would be fantastic :D.

Or we'll see the fight of Rayleigh and Kizaru..

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 09:21 AM
And I forgot that Chopper is still in Monster Point mode wherever he is he'll keep destroying.

Well, u forgot another thing too... When hitten by Kuma's paw, u wake up in a random place after 3 days and 3 nights.. so i doubt Chopper is still in his monster point mode. =)

Host Samurai
September 06, 2008, 09:37 AM
Well, u forgot another thing too... When hitten by Kuma's paw, u wake up in a random place after 3 days and 3 nights.. so i doubt Chopper is still in his monster point mode. =)

That depends on Chopper...we don't know for how long he can mantain in that state...or did I forgot something again :p.

Mythsoul
September 06, 2008, 10:58 AM
whao...that was an amazing chapter...now I seriously don't know what the hell is gonna happen ...I dont even want to speculate...I just can't wait for the next chapter spoilers

Onomatopoeia
September 06, 2008, 11:10 AM
I think those who predict that we'll be seeing more of the Strawhat's might be getting ahead of themselves. It seems to perfect that we have 3 day's of no SHs while a giant fight between the Sichi's and WB going on.

Ishido
September 06, 2008, 11:20 AM
I think that when Kuma told "We will not be seeing one another again... Farewell", it means that he's making a self sacrifice, a kamiakaze attack as someone post earlier, but why for the SH's?, I'm not sure, there are different theories about a debt to Dragon, or for Garp disposition, or just for something related to Ace. The idea is that I don’t think that Kuma will get out of shambody archipelago unhurt.

And by the way, what do u people think of Kuma’s possible destitution as a Shichibukai; u can bet on that, and now we will be seeing anther slot for the Shichibukai position.

jinxier
September 06, 2008, 11:35 AM
I thought it doesnt matter which hand he hit them with -*- the axe guy says that the destination only the man responsible can know that means only kuma will know as where he send them so if probably depends on his will not right or left arm IMO

Devil-buster
September 06, 2008, 11:37 AM
I personally dont like to see the strawhats split for a while....just because that would require atleast an arc dedicated to it....that would mean the new world will have to wait for that much longer.....and also the end of one piece will be more prolonged (atleast 500 chapters or more in the new world...)....so I'd rather see them get stronger together as nakama....also it would be definitely hard to follow 9 separate stories......it will have very little continuity......also there is the problem abt sunny go....I was hoping franky will soup it some more before they enter the new world....also there is the problem of how they will meet up....the only way is if they all decide to find rayleigh...cause the vivrecard's (considering they all got one), are set on rayleigh....

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 11:41 AM
That depends on Chopper...we don't know for how long he can mantain in that state...or did I forgot something again :p.

hehe, im not saying ur wrong, but last time Chopper got into that state, he went crazy for like 1 hour maximum, and then he became the old good "CHOOOOOOOPEEEERRR!!!!!!".

But ofcourse we dont know the fully potential of Choppers monster point state, by just seeing it once. Caus last time chopper were defeted in the monster-state, this time he got teleported without any physical damage done to him... but i still find it unlikely that chopper will go nuts in some random place in 3 days.. ^^

Host Samurai
September 06, 2008, 11:45 AM
I think that when Kuma told "We will not be seeing one another again... Farewell", it means that he's making a self sacrifice, a kamiakaze attack as someone post earlier, but why for the SH's?, I'm not sure, there are different theories about a debt to Dragon, or for Garp disposition, or just for something related to Ace. The idea is that I don’t think that Kuma will get out of shambody archipelago unhurt.

And by the way, what do u people think of Kuma’s possible destitution as a Shichibukai; u can bet on that, and now we will be seeing anther slot for the Shichibukai position.

I think that line is a foreshadowing for Kuma not being him anymore. His actions will definetly have some consequences....when he'll face the SH again he'll be a completed human weapon made by Vegapunk, he will most likely lose his kindness and be his alter ego = The Violent Kuma (wishful thinking xD). He will be just like the other Pacifistas a loyal servant of the WG but he'll remain as an Shichibukai.

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 11:53 AM
whao...that was an amazing chapter...now I seriously don't know what the hell is gonna happen ...I dont even want to speculate...I just can't wait for the next chapter spoilers

ahh.. i know it's hard to resist, but for your own good, dont read the spoilers. :) it's not so exciting when u know the main facts of the new chapter comes out, u can't imagine how luffy would react when reading in the spoilers: "i couldn't even save 1 nakama", for all we know he could have been angry.

at least I have stoped reading spoilers. I know i can't stop u, it's ur own choice.:laser
[hr]

I personally dont like to see the strawhats split for a while....just because that would require atleast an arc dedicated to it....that would mean the new world will have to wait for that much longer.....and also the end of one piece will be more prolonged (atleast 500 chapters or more in the new world...)....so I'd rather see them get stronger together as nakama....also it would be definitely hard to follow 9 separate stories......it will have very little continuity......also there is the problem abt sunny go....I was hoping franky will soup it some more before they enter the new world....also there is the problem of how they will meet up....the only way is if they all decide to find rayleigh...cause the vivrecard's (considering they all got one), are set on rayleigh....

At some point i agree with u, caus i also want to see what the new world is like. But in the other hand i want to read one piece my whole life, so acctually i dont care if it will be a new arc with the reunion of the SH's (as long as it's cool though, but everything oda draws is hilarious).

sharingan_kakashi
September 06, 2008, 12:02 PM
I think that line is a foreshadowing for Kuma not being him anymore. His actions will definetly have some consequences....when he'll face the SH again he'll be a completed human weapon made by Vegapunk, he will most likely lose his kindness and be his alter ego = The Violent Kuma (wishful thinking xD). He will be just like the other Pacifistas a loyal servant of the WG but he'll remain as an Shichibukai.
that is an interesting theory. I always wondered why the other Kumas lack emotions while he doesnt. I always thought he was the original but we learned that the PXs used to be humans too. I am still really confused, what is up with that?
When Kuma introduced himself to Zoro, he said he was an "incomplete" weapon called Pacifista. I assume the PXs are also pacifista, although i do believe it was never stated.

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 12:12 PM
that is an interesting theory. I always wondered why the other Kumas lack emotions while he doesnt. I always thought he was the original but we learned that the PXs used to be humans too. I am still really confused, what is up with that?
When Kuma introduced himself to Zoro, he said he was an "incomplete" weapon called Pacifista. I assume the PXs are also pacifista, although i do believe it was never stated.


Hmm, im not sure what u mean, but ofcourse the real Bartholomew Kuma has emotions, caus he's a human cyborg, like franky. The others dont have emotions caus they are copies "Pacifista" of the real Kuma, in other words Robots. All Pacifistas are labeled by the letters "PX" then a hyphen and a number.

The thing u say about the Pacifistas used to be real humans... well... i dont remember it so can u show me? Was it when they fought the PX-4(the blood to PX-4)? Caus if that's it, i dont have any good reasons for them to be bleeding, caus to me it is very clear that the PX-12345678 are copies of the real Bartholomew Kuma.

BTW: here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/03/) is a picture that provens that the Pacifistas are robots.

JC123
September 06, 2008, 12:21 PM
Note: you have http in the address twice. The link won't work because of that.

Also, read the next page. It explains they may have been human once. And Kuma was damaged as well, meaning he's similar to Franky

kkck
September 06, 2008, 12:43 PM
This is the second time so far that the strawhats as a crew have been defeated. The first time was when they fought aokiji. After the first time they were defeated as a crew, most of the strawhats experienced powerups, lufffy got gears, zoro got 9 swords and sanji got diable jambe, usopp got kabuto, nami got perfect tempo. If this lost is like the last one I think the strwhats are set in for another powerup.
Maybe kishi im planning on giving the strawhats upgrades each time they meet an admiral.

mr.danly
September 06, 2008, 01:40 PM
Hmm, im not sure what u mean, but ofcourse the real Bartholomew Kuma has emotions, caus he's a human cyborg, like franky. The others dont have emotions caus they are copies "Pacifista" of the real Kuma, in other words Robots. All Pacifistas are labeled by the letters "PX" then a hyphen and a number.

The thing u say about the Pacifistas used to be real humans... well... i dont remember it so can u show me? Was it when they fought the PX-4(the blood to PX-4)? Caus if that's it, i dont have any good reasons for them to be bleeding, caus to me it is very clear that the PX-12345678 are copies of the real Bartholomew Kuma.

BTW: here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/03/) is a picture that provens that the Pacifistas are robots.

What does that URL prove? The Pacifista's BLEED. That means they're still partially human. They're not FULL robots, because they're still partially human, but they're very close. They're more like mindless cyborgs than anything. Bartholemew Kuma is probably the original version, and was created earlier than these new mindless cyborgs. That's why he still has a mind, and control over what he does. He controls the robot part of him; the Pacifistas are controlled by the robot in them.

paradoxe
September 06, 2008, 01:45 PM
We don't know if they're mindless..

We don't know the extent to which theyre cyborg.

mr.danly
September 06, 2008, 01:53 PM
The ONLY time we've ever heard the PX's talk, is when they're announcing a pirate's name. This is probably just programming, since the PX's were also shown to have a targeting system that displays a pirate's name and bounty. They've followed all orders given to them by Sentou, Kizaru, and Kuma, and have never voiced their own opinion, or done anything on their own. I'm pretty sure that's mindless.

sharingan_kakashi
September 06, 2008, 01:58 PM
Hmm, im not sure what u mean, but ofcourse the real Bartholomew Kuma has emotions, caus he's a human cyborg, like franky. The others dont have emotions caus they are copies "Pacifista" of the real Kuma, in other words Robots. All Pacifistas are labeled by the letters "PX" then a hyphen and a number.

The thing u say about the Pacifistas used to be real humans... well... i dont remember it so can u show me? Was it when they fought the PX-4(the blood to PX-4)? Caus if that's it, i dont have any good reasons for them to be bleeding, caus to me it is very clear that the PX-12345678 are copies of the real Bartholomew Kuma.

BTW: here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/03/) is a picture that provens that the Pacifistas are robots.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/14/
Here Franky talks about how PX4 is similar to him.
PXs are indeed less human than Kuma but still part human.

Remember, there was talk here once about a country full of Kumas lol. i know it sounds dumb and amusing but it could be close to the truth. Or maybe Kuma is a pentuplet (is that right?)

Superman
September 06, 2008, 02:07 PM
I was half expecting Luffy to go G4 or something and show us what true power is - as he goes insane to get his nakama back. But I think Oda wanted to show us something else.


Wow. Damn guys i right know here a song that take me down.
So iam emotional labil right now:p and my idea is how luffy totally fleak out that he cant controll his emotions and goes so agressive and angry about himself and destroy everything he is on right now (exept peoples) and throw with everythink like he is drunk and crys the whole time and falls down on the ground and get autoagressive.
Then an ossan comes and tell him that he first has to forgive himself.(SPiderman and Grandma)

But i really could imagine that he becomes a total beast and goes all out to let his agression out.
Hey, everyone has a bad day right, nice to see such thing also excist in One Piece even though it is an very extreme example here to get his family blown out before his eyes.
He doesnt know that they are safe so it is very hard.

Akainu
September 06, 2008, 02:20 PM
I think those who predict that we'll be seeing more of the Strawhat's might be getting ahead of themselves. It seems to perfect that we have 3 day's of no SHs while a giant fight between the Sichi's and WB going on.

please do not consider the fight has started yet. all we know is that with announcing Ace's execution WG provoked WB to move. the next thing we know is that Shichis are called in to a mandatory meeting. no fight yet - even Kizaru says Kuma should be at the meeting. that DoFlamingo said they would fight WB is true but they are still supposed to be in the meeting and not one day has passed since the execution was announced.
imo, they can't already be fighting.


This is the second time so far that the strawhats as a crew have been defeated. The first time was when they fought aokiji. After the first time they were defeated as a crew, most of the strawhats experienced powerups, lufffy got gears, zoro got 9 swords and sanji got diable jambe, usopp got kabuto, nami got perfect tempo. If this lost is like the last one I think the strwhats are set in for another powerup.
Maybe kishi im planning on giving the strawhats upgrades each time they meet an admiral.

That's an interesting idea and there are similarities. their enemy was an admiral both times and one of the strawhats realised his uselessnes. I hope for Luffy that he snaps out of that state of mind he showed at the end of this chapter and uses it to get stronger instead of leaving the crew like a certain someone did in W7...
alltogether I think that PX-1 was sent with them for a purpose, though such a powerup for them would be kinda scary and to some extent un-Oda-ish (<insert a small note for all those heretics who constantly name the wrong mangaka>;)).

Superman
September 06, 2008, 02:24 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/14/
Here Franky talks about how PX4 is similar to him.
PXs are indeed less human than Kuma but still part human.

Remember, there was talk here once about a country full of Kumas lol. i know it sounds dumb and amusing but it could be close to the truth. Or maybe Kuma is a pentuplet (is that right?)

No it isnt:D:p Joking erm i dunno

Anyway.
Pxs run on blood and organs that help them run.
In the real world, so i mean in our world japanese peoples invented a robot (is more like a circle on wheels if you look from above) that can already digest flys.
Pretty awesome right?
We can do so much already, we even can get a cape with which we can fly like Badman.
No kidding it hardens on electro shocks. Invented from Nasa and very expensive.

JC123
September 06, 2008, 02:33 PM
really? I'm quite sure, that it was clear he would, right after Hacchan begging him not to do it whatever happens.


Everyone called the crew crazy. But until Luffy got into the auction house, no one would believe a pirate would do something audacious as destroying the "sacred bond" of the Tenryuu. (¬_¬)

Seems the crew and Admirals just don't get along. I tell ya, if they face Akainu, they'll be defeated again...

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 03:26 PM
What does that URL prove? The Pacifista's BLEED. That means they're still partially human. They're not FULL robots, because they're still partially human, but they're very close. They're more like mindless cyborgs than anything. Bartholemew Kuma is probably the original version, and was created earlier than these new mindless cyborgs. That's why he still has a mind, and control over what he does. He controls the robot part of him; the Pacifistas are controlled by the robot in them.

For all we know it can be oil..? :P nah just kidding, but i didn't mean it that way, caus im aware of what franky said (human inside). But i think we all agree that Kuma, the real one, is the orignial, and he is a human-cyborg like franky. The Pacifista's are kuma human-cyborg-clones. Maybe Vegapunk has taken some of the real Kuma's DNA and made clones of him (most likely acctually).

I still think the Pacifista's are mindless, caus as some1 mentioned, the only words we've heard from a pacifista is a name (dont remember who).. So to me it looks like they are programed to capture/eliminate people with a bounty, and the only words they can say, are names of the wanted persons.

DanteSonOfSparda
September 06, 2008, 04:00 PM
But i think we all agree that Kuma, the real one, is the orignial, and he is a human-cyborg like franky. The Pacifista's are kuma human-cyborg-clones. Maybe Vegapunk has taken some of the real Kuma's DNA and made clones of him (most likely acctually).

If Vegapunk would be able to clone ppl, wouldn't it be more logical to clone some admirals who are way stronger than any pacifista?
Maybe there's a devils-fruit involved, who knows...We know very little about Vegapunk and his possibilities of research, so I guess it could be anything :s

Fox666
September 06, 2008, 04:15 PM
Kuma needs to croach to talk low with Raileigh... ok, it seems like it is not soo good to be 15 feets tall, how does he didn't break the chair in chapter 233? He may be 20 tons weight. :p

My theory:
Well, there was probably a reason why the coating takes 3 days and as well Kumas ability to send ppl 3 days flying. I guess in the 3 dasy Oda will focus outside of the SHs, e.g WBs vs Shichi (probably + Marine) War.

Shakky had one sheet of the vivre card. Here we can see it in 3 divided papers (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/12/). And Luffy divided the groups after beating the Px4 into 3 groups. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/09/) Since everything is about "3", I guess the SHs are scattered in 3 groups and will eventually find together at the end of the 3 days.Ah, I totally forgot about that. :darn

Ishido
September 06, 2008, 04:34 PM
If Vegapunk would be able to clone ppl, wouldn't it be more logical to clone some admirals who are way stronger than any pacifista?
Maybe there's a devils-fruit involved, who knows...We know very little about Vegapunk and his possibilities of research, so I guess it could be anything :s

I don’t think that the pacifista are clone like biological clon’s, I think they are more like a project started from zero that keep upgrading from time to time. Remember Drake’s thought (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/509/08/), about how far had got Vegapunk with the pacifistas.

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 04:41 PM
If Vegapunk would be able to clone ppl, wouldn't it be more logical to clone some admirals who are way stronger than any pacifista?
Maybe there's a devils-fruit involved, who knows...We know very little about Vegapunk and his possibilities of research, so I guess it could be anything :s

well, that beam to Kuma and the pacifista's is Kizaru's power. So ofcourse no one of us can predict whether he can clone people or not. But why he clone Kuma instead of Kizaru is a good question (if he really does clone). Is it even proven that it is Vegapunk that has made the Kuma pacifista's? I think i've read it, but im very unsure atm. ^^

1 thing we know is that it costs a fortune to build a Pacifista (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/06-07/). So to build a robot as kizaru, moving in the speed of light.. might get very hard and very very expensive.. dont u think?

Am i wrong or has any of the pacifista's moved FAST yet (they just stand still)? they just uses their beams right? im not sure, caus i hasn't done any research, but if that's the case it means Vegapunk isn't capeable of building anything better than then Kuma Pacifista's, at least he hasn't builded anything better yet... =) So that might be the reason why he hasn't cloned Kizaru, he simply can't due kizaru's speed and power.

Mr.Popo
September 06, 2008, 04:57 PM
Why you all think this makes luffy stronger and he stays by the crew? It was the worst possible moment in luffys life to see all of his nakama vanshining before his eyes. I personally expect that he will take a pause for being the captain because he couldnt save anyone and such a captain is in his eyes nothing worth. So we are all was thinking it becomes an rescue zoro arc, but right now it seems to me like a "make luffy again the captain arc".
I totally agree with you.
For Luffy this is the worst situation possible!
It means he has failed his most basic ambition: the safety of his crewmates! The one thing he considers the most important duty of a captain.

Normaly Luffy never gives up, but he also has his principles. After this incident he might see himself unworthy of being a captain. I'm sure his crewmate will have a hard time to cheer him up to not loose their captain.

But as all SHs should be scattered around the world (in groups or not) the upcoming will more be a "survival arc" in both matters avoiding death and keep on being the "Strawhat Pirate Crew".

Onomatopoeia
September 06, 2008, 05:12 PM
I totally agree with you.
For Luffy this is the worst situation possible!
It means he has failed his most basic ambition: the safety of his crewmates! The one thing he considers the most important duty of a captain.

Normaly Luffy never gives up, but he also has his principles. After this incident he might see himself unworthy of being a captain. I'm sure his crewmate will have a hard time to cheer him up to not loose their captain.

But as all SHs should be scattered around the world (in groups or not) the upcoming will more be a "survival arc" in both matters avoiding death and keep on being the "Strawhat Pirate Crew".

This is the worst predicament for Luffy for all the reasons that you stated but also because in the very first chapter Luffy said "That he would gather a bunch of Nakama together and sail across the ocean" even at that age the most important thing about being a pirate was your Nakama's. In EL Luffy became stronger for his Nakama's so they wouldn't leave his crew. Yet here and now Luffy has failed at this one thing that he considers that important to him. Whether this will have detrimental effects later on the road remains to be seen.

Akainu
September 06, 2008, 06:12 PM
the question for me now is, whether this incident (punching a tenryuubito and getting to fight an admiral because of that, during which they got pawed [it's the new powned ^^]),
whether it aplies to what Zoro said in chapter 6 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/) :"if you (he means Luffy) do something that ends up in the way of my goal, I will have to cut your stomach open to say sorry" or in a better translation: "If anything happens that causes me to give up my goals... You have to disembowel yourself in apology!!!" (it fits the idea of Seppuku much more than the first one!).
however, do you think it is enough for Zoro to see that case now OR might he - like everyone else - have grown up so much that nakama are worth more now than a "minor" drawback in fulfilling his dream?
a crucial point imo!

[and by rereading this part, I noticed, that punching Helmeppo and punching Chalros was almost the same, only that now the situation is worse]

Zoro-kun
September 06, 2008, 06:37 PM
the question for me now is, whether this incident (punching a tenryuubito and getting to fight an admiral because of that, during which they got pawed [it's the new powned ^^]),
whether it aplies to what Zoro said in chapter 6 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/) :"if you (he means Luffy) do something that ends up in the way of my goal, I will have to cut your stomach open to say sorry" or in a better translation: "If anything happens that causes me to give up my goals... You have to disembowel yourself in apology!!!" (it fits the idea of Seppuku much more than the first one!).
however, do you think it is enough for Zoro to see that case now OR might he - like everyone else - have grown up so much that nakama are worth more now than a "minor" drawback in fulfilling his dream?
a crucial point imo!

[and by rereading this part, I noticed, that punching Helmeppo and punching Chalros was almost the same, only that now the situation is worse]

speaking of Zoro, he wants to be the greates swordman in the world.. then he has to surpass Kizaru and the dark king too then, caus they also uses swords, so zoro is now dead OR he must become stronger (same goes for the rest of the SH's).

Superman
September 06, 2008, 07:49 PM
This situation will help the SHs to drastically grow up without loosing their lovely bakaness.
@Zoro-Kun.
Luffy and Zoro have to grow so strong if they wanna reach their goals. So need Usopp!

Oblivion
September 06, 2008, 07:53 PM
the question for me now is, whether this incident (punching a tenryuubito and getting to fight an admiral because of that, during which they got pawed [it's the new powned ^^]),
whether it aplies to what Zoro said in chapter 6 :"if you (he means Luffy) do something that ends up in the way of my goal, I will have to cut your stomach open to say sorry" or in a better translation: "If anything happens that causes me to give up my goals... You have to disembowel yourself in apology!!!" (it fits the idea of Seppuku much more than the first one!).

zorro has no problem with luffy punching the royal.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/06/

he wanted to do the same. in his eyes luffy did the right thing.

after all this time, zorro knows quite well how his captain will react. zorro knows quite well of the power of an admiral (pwnage Aokiji if he had a problem with that he had stopped luffy. ). just like the time he made luffy clear about the choice he has to make with robin and lysopp (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/02/ http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/03/ as well http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/341/03/ http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/341/04/ )

zorro is the one who reasons the crew and especially luffy. if he sees a problem which really matters he'd point it out. so i see no problem with him being mad at luffy. especially after willing to give his life in order for luffy to become the pirate king http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/12/

and seriously: i was never so exited to read the next OP chapter as now. this arc is sooo amazing.

Krisel
September 06, 2008, 08:04 PM
Omfg...this was too emotional.The part when Nami seeking Luffys help,the part where Brooke said i will protect you with my life,the part where Luffy started to panic and was giving up,the part when Luffy cried.Dmn u GODa-sensei.
I hope we see what became of SH's next chap.It will be ridiculous if the next chap. will talk about Ace,WB etc.
We NEED to know wtf did Kuma actually do!

RichardMNixon
September 06, 2008, 08:36 PM
the question for me now is, whether this incident (punching a tenryuubito and getting to fight an admiral because of that, during which they got pawed [it's the new powned ^^]),
whether it aplies to what Zoro said in chapter 6 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/) :"if you (he means Luffy) do something that ends up in the way of my goal, I will have to cut your stomach open to say sorry" or in a better translation: "If anything happens that causes me to give up my goals... You have to disembowel yourself in apology!!!" (it fits the idea of Seppuku much more than the first one!).

Zoro asked Kuma to kill him in order to protect Luffy... I don't think he's going to kill Luffy for getting them in a tight spot.

I also don't think Luffy is going to get all Naruto... err... emo about it. If they all wake up in the same place, he'll clap his hands over his head, laugh about how he thought he was dead, and then yell about kicking Sentoumaru's ass.

craig
September 06, 2008, 10:23 PM
Hey all, just getting into one piece. Can anyone tell me what manga chapter is equivalent to the latest episode (368) in the anime?

*edit* Nevermind - found it :)

Andonan
September 06, 2008, 10:24 PM
LOL your probably correct Richard, followed by wen he meets Sentou he pulls out some new epic move and dispatches him, like gear 4/5 :)

But the real question is whether they all wake up in the same place...... I mean I thought they would when we witnessed Ray and Kuma talking quietly but then the final closing statements make me think otherwise.....if Kuma was saving them why would it say that they were "totally defeated"??

BTW this totally end the Ray is stronger than Kizaru debate....turns out they're pretty muc the exact same level nowadays but in his prime he could have dispatched al three of them :D so I guess both parties were correct, and if anyone wants to dispute this I'm going to go shoot myself in the head LOL :p

Devil-buster
September 06, 2008, 11:32 PM
the question for me now is, whether this incident (punching a tenryuubito and getting to fight an admiral because of that, during which they got pawed [it's the new powned ^^]),
whether it aplies to what Zoro said in chapter 6 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/06/) :"if you (he means Luffy) do something that ends up in the way of my goal, I will have to cut your stomach open to say sorry" or in a better translation: "If anything happens that causes me to give up my goals... You have to disembowel yourself in apology!!!" (it fits the idea of Seppuku much more than the first one!).
however, do you think it is enough for Zoro to see that case now OR might he - like everyone else - have grown up so much that nakama are worth more now than a "minor" drawback in fulfilling his dream?
a crucial point imo!

[and by rereading this part, I noticed, that punching Helmeppo and punching Chalros was almost the same, only that now the situation is worse]


I think zoro has changed a lot during his time with luffy and the crew.....Infact I think zoro now has two ambitions, one is to be the strongest swordaman and the other is to make luffy pirate king.....he is the closest out of all the crew to luffy....the zoro that said those words was still in pirate hunter mode, some what.....and I dont think luffy did anything here that obstructs his path, I think he will see this more like a lack of his own strength than that of luffy's....I think most of the crew will feel this was, including luffy....I think there has to be a lot of healing before they can work as a team again.....

this is why I am against the straw hats spkitting up theory, if they split up now, what would be the driving force bringing them back together...except for the fearsome three most of the others must be scared shitless of the new world now......If they r alone I dont think they would want to go back....

Musashi_Keiji
September 07, 2008, 04:02 AM
I think Kuma found something admirable in Zoro when he met him in thriller bark. Unlike the other shichibukai Kuma seems like an honorable person, specially that hinting Bible he holds.

It was that sumo guy that said Kuma's paw could send people flying for 3days and 3nights and only the sender(kuma) knows where they will land. If Kuma has more control over his power than how it was explained I think it's possible that he sent them all to a specific place or places not to far from each other.

And as Kizaru said in the end you can't trust Pirates. First and foremost Kuma is still a Pirate. all the shichibukai are. They aren't "retired" or anything. They simply don't have bounties because of the "deals" the make with the WG. Just look at the other shichibukai so far. Despite "being loyal to the WG" they skip out on meetings. Moria still wanted to be king. Crocodile wanted to take over a kingdom. Even BB is only using them to make it easier for him to become Pirate King also.

One Piece has never really had a "training arc" like the so many that pollute Naruto or Bleach. I think the next arc will be an actual "training arc" in which all the crew train themselves to become stronger.

Zoro-kun
September 07, 2008, 05:54 AM
zorro has no problem with luffy punching the royal.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/503/06/

he wanted to do the same. in his eyes luffy did the right thing.

after all this time, zorro knows quite well how his captain will react. zorro knows quite well of the power of an admiral (pwnage Aokiji if he had a problem with that he had stopped luffy. ). just like the time he made luffy clear about the choice he has to make with robin and lysopp (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/02/ http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/438/03/ as well http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/341/03/ http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/341/04/ )

zorro is the one who reasons the crew and especially luffy. if he sees a problem which really matters he'd point it out. so i see no problem with him being mad at luffy. especially after willing to give his life in order for luffy to become the pirate king http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/12/

and seriously: i was never so exited to read the next OP chapter as now. this arc is sooo amazing.

ur german, but speaks good english, so pls use their english names too (Zoro, Usopp, Luffy) not lysopp, zorro and Ruffy.. =)

neomaster121
September 07, 2008, 06:10 AM
I think we will be split up

but on their journeys back trhe 9 will meet 2 exatra people each who when they arrive at SA will make the crew 27 strong

i say this because Zoro will need a navigator as well as someone like a doctor or somthing like that

Luffy makes good friends

sanji gets more ladies in the crew
Nami gets strong guys to protect her and her money
etc so when they all arrive at SA the crew becomes bigger and better but random theory

BlackHair
September 07, 2008, 06:18 AM
Training arc? So far Oda didn't draw any kind of training arc. Infact the training arc is before the start of the series, e.g Luffy with Garp and later he was trusted to some1 else, Zoro with Kulenas Dad and Sanji with Jeff.

After W7 fight with CP9, Luffy and Zorro were sent flying as if it was nothing. There was a clear power difference and at that time I was like "WTF. . they do need training or they cant beat them!" But Oda didn't draw anything, that's why this time I don't expect anything. btw, for a training arc there is a teacher needed. Who should teach them all? Rayleigh? I don't think so.

And there is noway Zoro or anyone else thinks badly of Luffy for getting them al in trouble. I also can't imagine a few "cheer up Luffy" chapter/arc. Thats not like Oda.

About the pacifista: I believe only Kuma is the guy with a original human heart+brain. The other guys r just clones of him, without personality (heart+brain).

As I posted before, I believe Kuma sent them flying in three groups:
Well, there was probably a reason why the coating takes 3 days and as well Kumas ability to send ppl 3 days flying. I guess in the 3 dasy Oda will focus outside of the SHs, e.g WBs vs Shichi (probably + Marine) War. Not like the whole fight will start withhin the 3 days, but some kind of preparations.

Shakky had one sheet of the vivre card. Here we can see it in 3 divided papers (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/12/). And Luffy divided the groups after beating the Px4 into 3 groups, each group with 1 vivre card. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/09/) Since everything is about "3", I guess the SHs are scattered in 3 groups and will eventually find together at the end of the 3 days. But hey are all somewhere on or near the island.

NoLimit89
September 07, 2008, 06:47 AM
oooo I think that's spot on ^^^

why else would Oda have introduced the 3 pieces of vivre card?

so the groups are

Luffy, Chopper, Robin*
Sanji, Franky, Nami*
Usopp, Brook, Zoro*

where the * are the ones with vivre cards.

neomaster121
September 07, 2008, 06:50 AM
Training arc? So far Oda didn't draw any kind of training arc. Infact the training arc is before the start of the series, e.g Luffy with Garp and later he was trusted to some1 else, Zoro with Kulenas Dad and Sanji with Jeff.

After W7 fight with CP9, Luffy and Zorro were sent flying as if it was nothing. There was a clear power difference and at that time I was like "WTF. . they do need training or they cant beat them!" But Oda didn't draw anything, that's why this time I don't expect anything. btw, for a training arc there is a teacher needed. Who should teach them all? Rayleigh? I don't think so.

And there is noway Zoro or anyone else thinks badly of Luffy for getting them al in trouble. I also can't imagine a few "cheer up Luffy" chapter/arc. Thats not like Oda.

About the pacifista: I believe only Kuma is the guy with a original human heart+brain. The other guys r just clones of him, without personality (heart+brain).

As I posted before, I believe Kuma sent them flying in three groups:
Well, there was probably a reason why the coating takes 3 days and as well Kumas ability to send ppl 3 days flying. I guess in the 3 dasy Oda will focus outside of the SHs, e.g WBs vs Shichi (probably + Marine) War. Not like the whole fight will start withhin the 3 days, but some kind of preparations.

Shakky had one sheet of the vivre card. Here we can see it in 3 divided papers (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/12/). And Luffy divided the groups after beating the Px4 into 3 groups, each group with 1 vivre card. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/09/) Since everything is about "3", I guess the SHs are scattered in 3 groups and will eventually find together at the end of the 3 days. But hey are all somewhere on or near the island.


didn't realise it was only 3 pieces

well i think these groups will be like this

Zoro luffy sanji

Robin brookes franky

Nami ussop chopper

if they've been poofed away in groups

Koen
September 07, 2008, 07:17 AM
I think Kuma found something admirable in Zoro when he met him in thriller bark. Unlike the other shichibukai Kuma seems like an honorable person, specially that hinting Bible he holds.

Well could be he's honorable but he says: even I have doubt in these matters, he doesn't anwser a question of kizaru, etc

So I wonder if kuma doesn't know yet what he wants. He is part of shichibukai but he's strange. Created by vegapunk but still different from other pacifisticas. So I really am curious about kuma's true goal behind this. It felt like he was saving them from worse

Mr.Popo
September 07, 2008, 09:03 AM
I also can't imagine a few "cheer up Luffy" chapter/arc. Thats not like Oda.
So you can predict Oda?
There is only one thing i belief is not like Oda and that is repeating himself.


so the groups are

Luffy, Chopper, Robin*
Sanji, Franky, Nami*
Usopp, Brook, Zoro*
I agree. This is the order they vanished:
Zorro*, Brooke, Usopp , Sanji, Franky, Nami* , Chopper, Robin*, Luffy
Usopp vanished first, although Sanji attacked before and the same applies to Luffy who was merely ignored by Kuma till the end.
One problematic thing about this groups is, that, with the exception of Brooke, all fruit users are together.

Although it might be futile, i'll try to make a prediction.
But before that i make some assumptions.
1)
Kuma is NOT on a rescue mission. He is there because of that "matter" and both he and Rayleigh have uneasy feelings about that, so it can't be simply rescueing the SHs.
Also Rayleigh isn't looking happy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/) not even relieved he is worried. SHs probably got out of the frying pan into the fire.
2)
The Shichibukai were ordered to gather at headquarters. Kuma was probably there a minute ago, too. Garp is also at headquarters. So i guess he planed to rescue both his grandsons together with a serious punishment for Luffy.

Now my prediction.
Luffy was sent into prison to Ace, another group to or near to Mariejoa.
Zorro is a special case, he vanished in his own chapter and was the only one Kuma asked his trademark-question, also he needs more than a few hours or days to rest.

I don't think there will be a time skip (although it is very obviously hinted) and i also don't think there will be a simple "get-together arc". Both would break the tension and would be really anticlimactic.

So to sum it up: shabondy arc is practically over. Probably some words about Law and Kidd, but then the story will continue in the next arc: WB vs. Shichibukai.

P.S. Farewell Kuma. You were such a cool guy, i will miss you.

BlackHair
September 07, 2008, 10:05 AM
So you can predict Oda?
There is only one thing i belief is not like Oda and that is repeating himself.
After reading 500+ chapter Im able predict to a certain point what is not coming! Not like I was every time right, but there were some cases, like at the end of 507, it was not Dragons leg as many predicted. This time I predict, there wont be any "Luffy cheer up" chapter and there won't be any "training arcs".

imo Luffy isn't a weak character. He has a clear dream which he is pursuing and he knew the risks. Instead of crying for his nakama, he will probably search for them. Since he himself is alive, why shouldn't others not be. O' btw .. I cant see Luffy or the other dead :P

This time it is especially hard to predict what is coming next, since Oda could draw anything. It is rly a new opening for him and I think he will start with the outside world of SHs, as for reasons I already posted above. And later go on with the SHs.

About Kuma:
Rayleigh: You want me to trust what you say...?
Kuma: It's your choice. I'm endangering my position with this too. (SPOILERS)

Rayleigh: You want me to trust what you say...?
Kuma: It's up to u. Even I have doubt in this matter (FH Scans)

I think by helping the SHs, he is endangering his position as Shichi. He probably told Ray where he sent the SHs and that by doing this he is helping them. Ray doesn't trust his words, since they are actually enemy. As for reasons, why Kuma is doing this could be Garp, Dragon or sth he found out, well idk there could be anything. But I cant imagine Zoro to be his only reason. Rays face (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/) isn't happy coz of Luffy comments, that he wasn't able to save anyone.

At the end of the chapter he said to Luffy, that they won't see each other again, that is why I think they r still near or on the island. If they were sent to far places, Kuma had to go to send them back personally. I know Ray has the sunny and he could pick them up, but I don't think that will be the case.

Yabe
September 07, 2008, 10:21 AM
So you can predict Oda?
There is only one thing i belief is not like Oda and that is repeating himself.

I agree with blackhair though. I can't imagine Luffy'd have to receive cheer-ups especially by the crews who passed the same difficulties and witnessed the same things as him. Nami even called for Luffy's help before she got erased, and it's also because Oda made Luffy's personalities to be extremely optimistic and enthusiastic about his dreams to become the Pirate King; that's why I think no matter how hard Luffy failed he'd not be all emo and give up on moving forwards so that the others have to repeat his goal for him. I think it just won't be easy as before in this time, Luffy's going to surpass this defeat with difficulties but he'll still be the person who brings the hope back to his crews. Don't forget even this is a repeated concept, it's still the very possesion of Luffy that's caused the current crews decided to set-sailed with him.

Also, don't get me wrong, it's not that I can't accept or can't bare seeing Luffy goes low and gets cheered-up. I only think the happen is not so very likely.


Garp is also at headquarters. So i guess he planed to rescue both his grandsons together with a serious punishment for Luffy.


I disagree with this cos in the chapter where we saw Garp mentioned about Rayleigh, he didn't seem to get heated-up knowing the fact Ace's getting executed. I think despite all the playful acts and talks, Garp's heart is for the marines' way as how Luffy's is for the way of pirates. I don't think he'll run into all the trouble to save either Ace or Luffy, I rather think if both would happen to be saved by anything else he'd be overjoyed by that tense of his grandsons' luck and laughed about it and considered that's the marines' failed and that's all.


Now my prediction.
Luffy was sent into prison to Ace, another group to or near to Mariejoa.
Zorro is a special case, he vanished in his own chapter and was the only one Kuma asked his trademark-question, also he needs more than a few hours or days to rest.

XD
I think the SHs have encountered enough tough stuffs; and as you predicted that Luffy'd go down from this event, what's the hope left for him to keep fighting in Impel Down?


That's said. I objected your brave predictions but I couldn't come up with any other good guess.

dsr
September 07, 2008, 10:51 AM
I like the 3 groups theory.
I agree that Oda at 99,999999% won't show the SHs in the next chapters.
At least he will show
A-The end of SR vs Kizaru
B-The damage done on SA and the fate of the SNs
C-The preparation for the war
D-A meeting of the 5 sages of the WG
E-Something about both Dragon and Smoker (this one especially has been out of the scenes for tooooo long)

And I think that one between Kidd and Law (I say Kidd) will take Kuma's place between the shichibukai, this has not to be in the next chapters but even further in the story, and we'll all known when he will encounter Luffy next time.
I also predict that Moria will be removed from his charge.

And, f**k!, I wait for some kind of revelation from Drake's mouth.

Akainu
September 07, 2008, 10:52 AM
As I already wrote somwhere in the beginning of this thread, Ray more or less looks like he knows what's up and therefor he reacts calmly and stays cool.

As for the matter of the whereabouts of the Strawhats, I assume Oda doesn't let his characters lie, so for the next 3 days and 3 nights they will be flying somewhere.
Admittedly I can't imagine, that it's especially helpful for Zoro to fly around.
Other possible explanations for the myth of flying 3 days and 3 nights might be things like the lack of communication media or other people travelling much slower.

About the groups that might be formed: there is still the possibility that the SH exploit PX-1 and thus Usopp, Franky and Nami could gather in one group.
Another theory on how they might be grouped after their 3days & nights flight is, with which paw and where respectivley they have been hit. that would add up to:
left paw: PX-1(frontal hit), Brooke (side), Sanji (side), Nami (looks like front)
right paw: Zoro (hit from the side), Usopp (frontal), Franky (looks like side), Chopper (front), Robin (side), Luffy (side)

doesn't help a lot either ^^

JC123
September 07, 2008, 11:29 AM
Seriously, one group (namely the one with Nami) is going to meet up with Lola's mother in some way shape or form.

ONe may meet a Yonkou (Jinbei)

And one is going to either find treasure or find a messed up Luffy who they'll have to cheer up in some way to get the crew back together.

Zoro-kun
September 07, 2008, 11:36 AM
Im starting to belive Kizaru is going to kill Kuma... just look at him http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/18/.

Caus that would acctually make alot of sense, Kuma is sacrificing himself to save the SH's, therefor he says Farwell to Luffy.

Kuma shouldn't been on the Island at all, but kizaru doesn't seem mind too much, but when he saves/teleports the SH's it looks like he's getting kinda angry to me.

So i dont think there will be any groups, i just think they've all have been teleported to safety.
[hr]

Seriously, one group (namely the one with Nami) is going to meet up with Lola's mother in some way shape or form.

ONe may meet a Yonkou (Jinbei)

And one is going to either find treasure or find a messed up Luffy who they'll have to cheer up in some way to get the crew back together.

Jinbei is not a Yonkou, he's a schichibukai.
the Yonkou's are: shanks, WB, Kaidou and 1 more that's still unknown.

dsr
September 07, 2008, 11:46 AM
Well, I don't like Sento's myth regarding the "pawed" ones.
It's a myth, only Kuma and Oda know the truth.

Onomatopoeia
September 07, 2008, 12:39 PM
Alright I'll ask it once again where's the evidence that Lola's mom is a Yonkou?? I mean everyone states it like it's a fact, it's not it could be anyone.

Also one group is going to end up with the PX-1. That could be problematic for whichever group it'll be.

k-dom
September 07, 2008, 12:43 PM
Another question, since Kuma has no relation with the marine, how did he know that the strawhats or Rayleigh were in Shabondy ?

Onomatopoeia
September 07, 2008, 12:49 PM
Kuma works for the WG and the Marine's work for the WG. he probablly heard about it from them since theirs also a good chance he's in Mariejoroa or near it. He also reports directly to Sengoku. Just because he doesn't mean he follows Marine order's directly unless they have something to do with the WG doesn't mean that he doesn't have info about the Marine's.

dsr
September 07, 2008, 02:02 PM
A spy within the WG?
Someone that secretely sides with the pirates?

I didn't really remember but how long has passed since the void century?
500 or 800 years?
Anyway the 5 sages are not 500 or 800 years old, so the members could have changed during those years, someone HAD to die for aging too much :p
So it comes to the law of great numbers that someone can betray.
Ok, that's fanta-politic, but it could even be.

Superman
September 07, 2008, 02:22 PM
The Shs wont show up next chapter.
Maybe one member on the last page but i cant even imagine this

Mr.Popo
September 07, 2008, 02:33 PM
Another question, since Kuma has no relation with the marine, how did he know that the strawhats or Rayleigh were in Shabondy ?
I don't think Kuma is there on his own. Someone else sent him there.
And it is not necessary that he knew about Rayleigh, but when he saw him he decided to talk to him.

Just some guesses.

Superman
September 07, 2008, 02:40 PM
Another question, since Kuma has no relation with the marine, how did he know that the strawhats or Rayleigh were in Shabondy ?

He knows everything.:grin:p joking
He get his informations.
Probably Garp sended him there. Kuma is an total actor like Itachi, he follows orders but act on his own interests. Probably the marine gave him the title tyrant to make him more scary.
I dont think he was brutal beyond measure, he was just brutal within measure. Got it ha ha:D:p Within measure :grin:barf O0

Host Samurai
September 07, 2008, 02:59 PM
And I think that one between Kidd and Law (I say Kidd) will take Kuma's place between the shichibukai, this has not to be in the next chapters but even further in the story, and we'll all known when he will encounter Luffy next time.
I also predict that Moria will be removed from his charge.


Do you seriously believe that?:p There's no way that the WG would let Kidd replace Kuma in that moment. They're going to face the strongest Pirate with his crew and Kuma abilitys would be more than useful.(Imagine a huge Ursa Shock on WB's ship that would be Amazing to watch :D).
I mean the WG didn't want to replace Moria..... And who on earth could beat Kuma in that moment? Kizaru has his hands full with Rayleigh so there is no other possibility ;).

dsr
September 07, 2008, 03:21 PM
Yes I believe it, but as I said it will happen further on.
Kuma's action will have consequences. This is quite a predictable fact.
The day the SHs will resurface and attract WG's attention, Kuma days will be counted.
Then Gekko was not already replaced to avoid the scandal that another shichibukai failed against the SHs.
I think that Moria could be killed by the same WG during the battle against WB.
Moria already lost 2 times, one with Kaidou (the stitches on GM's neck could be a gift from the Yonkou), the other against Luffy.
A man who lose many times, is not a man that gains respect and awe, thus he doesn't deserve to be a shichibukai.

gold349
September 07, 2008, 03:39 PM
I'm still in awe at Kuma ability, he was just taking out the SH's as if nothing, ok you can say they were kind off already exhausted and didn't have the will/power to fight him for real but he even took out PX1kuma as if he were nothing, I'm sure this has a lot to do with his question, of where one wants to go. This power, just his teleportation and moving around in battle is overkill, it overshadows the admiral imo and his DF ability looks weak as he has to move in straight lines, bounce of things to get there but Kuma can just teleport in an instance, he could run rings around his opponent, we know how fast Luffy is in gear 2nd and kuma coped with it is if he was moving at snail pace.

Host Samurai
September 07, 2008, 03:45 PM
Yes I believe it, but as I said it will happen further on.
Kuma's action will have consequences. This is quite a predictable fact.
The day the SHs will resurface and attract WG's attention, Kuma days will be counted.
Then Gekko was not already replaced to avoid the scandal that another shichibukai failed against the SHs.
I think that Moria could be killed by the same WG during the battle against WB.
Moria already lost 2 times, one with Kaidou (the stitches on GM's neck could be a gift from the Yonkou), the other against Luffy.
A man who lose many times, is not a man that gains respect and awe, thus he doesn't deserve to be a shichibukai.

I agree with you that Kuma actions will have some consequences. But IMO the WG won't take Kumas title as an Shichibukai away from him. What purpose would the Pacifistas have? They're all designed to look like him the brutal Shichibukai who serves under the WG. The WG sees it different if Morias defeat gets public than the WG will lose their face.

k-dom
September 07, 2008, 03:56 PM
The main hypothesis is that Kuma saved the SH for the secret reason he told Rayleigh. He acts obviously for somebody he trusts. As I already said I doubt it's Garp. If it is someone from world government, his position as a Shishibukai is safe.

Antillio
September 07, 2008, 04:43 PM
Personally i think it's either Dragon or Garp that Kuma works for and i hope it's Dragon.
Kuma could easily be a spy when u think of it cause his teleporting ability easily gives him the power to be 1, as he is quite untrackable.

I also join the theory that the Strawhats will come back to the island after 3days, back to the ship as that was/is there only way of surviving the Admiral/Marines attacks on them.

gold349
September 07, 2008, 04:59 PM
The main hypothesis is that Kuma saved the SH for the secret reason he told Rayleigh. He acts obviously for somebody he trusts. As I already said I doubt it's Garp. If it is someone from world government, his position as a Shishibukai is safe.


Kuma has sent the SH's but I don't think even he knows the whole reason or the facts, like many I think he just saved them, if that wasn't the case he would have killed them on shabondy and helped the admiral with Raleigh but he tells Raleigh most likely the truth behind his actions but from pg 11 he to has doubts in the matter so he has most likely done it on orders but hasn't all the facts behind this and maybe is unsure of this person(s) intentions.

Shiro-kun
September 07, 2008, 06:04 PM
Kuma is difinately a wild card, but i doubt he did anything bad with the Straw Hats like Gold398 Said. After the fact i dont know if Kuma is going to be in trouble for doing this, but he knows more about World Government (than us) ...so maybe not (since he implied that he isnt with the marines unless the goverments involved)

AnywaysI wonder where he sent them, it happens that Kuma sent them flying for three days which also takes The Thousand Sunny to be prepared (as many noted),I believe there out of the Shabody Islands..but i believe that its going to be close to the isles or at least a manageable distance.

Zoro-kun
September 08, 2008, 12:00 AM
Alright I'll ask it once again where's the evidence that Lola's mom is a Yonkou?? I mean everyone states it like it's a fact, it's not it could be anyone.

Also one group is going to end up with the PX-1. That could be problematic for whichever group it'll be.


There is no evidence that Lola's mom is a yonkou, the only thing we know is that Moria fought and lost to a yonkou named Kaidou in the new world.

d3death
September 08, 2008, 12:35 AM
Hey everyone

i was going through last chaps and i found something interesting

Sentamaro was there even before luffy puched that noble:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/16/

can this mean vegapunk is here too :o

Shiro-kun
September 08, 2008, 01:16 AM
^Yeah beforewards we just called him axe-man, and as for Vegapunk.. his creations/ works are there (PX's and Kuma) but no so sure about him.

Akainu
September 08, 2008, 05:02 AM
maybe a stupid question, but for all those who think SH are going to land in Impel Down or Fishman Island ... how?
not only are they supposed to stay airborne for three days and nights but these destinations are deep under the surface and water usually is a huge resistance.

anyway, that leeds me back to Sentos statement and I think the big flaw of his theory is the line about not returning anywhere near the spot you started your paw-airlines flight.
so landing on Shabondy or near with Ray having Sunny ready would imo be pretty cool and not nearly as faretched as a rather long journey around the world.

also about Kuma, he really seems to have done something that could harm him: read (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter513.txt)
also the last lines are somehow more hopeful... "tasted utter annihilation" at least for me rather reads like: "if you don't get a lot stronger that's what will happen in the new world, no one will be able to help you there, no shadows, no salt, no water or whatever; the enemies across that line know their own strength and weaknesses".

anyway all that makes me believe, that if they ever visit FI, it won't be an arc with excessive fighting and big shots as enemies.

monkey D luffy
September 08, 2008, 05:46 AM
The Shs wont show up next chapter.
Maybe one member on the last page but i cant even imagine this
after reading the chapter again i think that there is a good chance that the strawhats will appear and we will have a time skip of 3 days and nights here. i say it because of the last phrase in the chapter "... the crew scattered..." which is in my opinion the next chapter. so we will see where they landed and what is their situation
also there is a chance that i'm completely wrong and in that case i think that we might see kuma's punishment and the rayleigh vs kizaru fight ends and how exectly do they know each other

Oni_James
September 08, 2008, 06:32 AM
i was so bored and wanted to make fun of the Dragon theory so I made this:
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kumaei2.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kumaei2.jpg
XD
now seriously, it's too early to show Dragon in such a direct way, luffy doesn't know anything about his father, and doesn't know even what a revolutionary is
i think next chapters are going to be about..
514: WB vs Shichibukai
515: Something in Shabondy archipelago
516: SH's place
we know by experience how mucho Oda enjoys making us wait next to a big event:p ->Blackbeard vs Ace

Yabe
September 08, 2008, 07:53 AM
also about Kuma, he really seems to have done something that could harm him: read (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter513.txt)
also the last lines are somehow more hopeful... "tasted utter annihilation" at least for me rather reads like: "if you don't get a lot stronger that's what will happen in the new world, no one will be able to help you there, no shadows, no salt, no water or whatever; the enemies across that line know their own strength and weaknesses".
The trans on Kuma's response to Rayleigh (and the last descriptive line of this chap) are suspicious. Which one is true, or does that sentence's able to signify to both meanings?


i was so bored and wanted to make fun of the Dragon theory so I made this:
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kumaei2.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kumaei2.jpg
XD
now seriously, it's too early to show Dragon in such a direct way, luffy doesn't know anything about his father, and doesn't know even what a revolutionary is

xD But I think if Kuma's not coordinating with him then it's also about time we're told some more things about Dragon though. Oda foreshadowed when BB'd beaten Ace that this current situation's going to be something grand. I suppose perhaps aside from the wars with WB, it's not so hopeless to expect to see the Revolutionists taking some action over the WG also in this chaos...

Just not-even-half-percents perhaps.

varsas
September 08, 2008, 08:03 AM
Another question, since Kuma has no relation with the marine, how did he know that the strawhats or Rayleigh were in Shabondy ?

Logical deduction backed up by his previous encounter with them: he would know that the SHs were last at Water 7 heading to Fishman Island and they would need to go to the Sabaody Archipelago to enable them to continue their journey.

gbgej
September 08, 2008, 08:18 AM
I have to agree with varsas there that Kuma didnt have to be to well informed to know where the strawhat was going, since if i remember correct you cant "skip" any of the bigger islands since they will recharge the llog so you can get to the next one. Unless you have one of these "ever things" (forgot the name and to lazy to check it out) So basically you can calculate to where they are going to go next etc.

The thing that i have been thinking on quite latley is that the strawhat crew or well some of them were quite badly injured when they took a trip with "Paw-Airlines" (i like that name so much :P so have to steal it from ya Akainu, or atleast lend it.)

Anyhow, when they took this trip they were already injured and they are going to be flying around for 3 days and 3 nights (if its true that it lasts that long.) Anyhow if it does. 3 days and 3 nights is a bit much without any food or water when your beaten up so they are going to be in a pretty bad shape again once they land, unless they can order some food from kuma or something :P

Aswell as they are "traveing in the speed of light" on those paws, i doubt the landing will be to comfortable then aswell right? Unless Kuma can slow down the paws again or something.

So i dont see how the strawhats are going to get up for a while after this flight. Though they usually recover quickly so... hoping for it :P

Ichibugen
September 08, 2008, 10:55 AM
I think we'll see the Shichibukai meeting and some Whitebeard battle prep.

Zoro-kun
September 08, 2008, 10:59 AM
Hey everyone

i was going through last chaps and i found something interesting

Sentamaro was there even before luffy puched that noble:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/497/17/

can this mean vegapunk is here too :o


woot? I can't see him on the picture lol xD he's not there is he?

Edit: Nvm, u just gave the wrong link, he was on the previous page.. :) But i dont see why u can draw conclutions as Vagapunk beeing on the island

Superman
September 08, 2008, 01:03 PM
after reading the chapter again i think that there is a good chance that the strawhats will appear and we will have a time skip of 3 days and nights here. i say it because of the last phrase in the chapter "... the crew scattered..." which is in my opinion the next chapter. so we will see where they landed and what is their situation
also there is a chance that i'm completely wrong and in that case i think that we might see kuma's punishment and the rayleigh vs kizaru fight ends and how exectly do they know each other

If you think about the anime and that, after an episode, there is always a review of the next episode.
So wouldnt it be damn boring for peoples who only watch the anime to know that they are safe after such a dangerous situation???;)

k-dom
September 08, 2008, 01:16 PM
I have to agree with varsas there that Kuma didnt have to be to well informed to know where the strawhat was going, since if i remember correct you cant "skip" any of the bigger islands since they will recharge the llog so you can get to the next one. Unless you have one of these "ever things" (forgot the name and to lazy to check it out) So basically you can calculate to where they are going to go next etc.

the fact that the SH are on Shabondy and that they need to be saved from an admiral are 2 different things



Aswell as they are "traveing in the speed of light" on those paws, i doubt the landing will be to comfortable then aswell right? Unless Kuma can slow down the paws again or something.

I imagine that they can start at the speed of light and it take them 3 days to slow down.



If you think about the anime and that, after an episode, there is always a review of the next episode.
So wouldnt it be damn boring for peoples who only watch the anime to know that they are safe after such a dangerous situation???

The anime is 100 chapters behind. I doubt Oda think to it when he write the manga. Moreover if currently 1 episode = 1 chapter it has not always been the same.
What I think it is that it would be terribly sadistic from Oda to not show us where are the SH next chapter :-)

Superman
September 08, 2008, 01:48 PM
Do you know how organized Oda is??
Did you see the pic where Reileigh hit Shanks and Buggy?
That was a few hundred chapters ago and then he introduced Reyleigh.
He planned the sanji pic and took a joke over a few chapters.
He is so organized and he will plan so little things too.

Tweaker
September 08, 2008, 01:56 PM
well after reading this chapter some times, i think/hope this will happen in the next chapter, some1 might have said it before but whatever. my prediction for chapter 515

after this utter defeat there should be timeskip for 3 days. the cover for chapter 515 should have newspaper saying the strawhats has been defeated by Bartholomew Kuma of the Shichibukai. where Luffy lived they are having a funeral, the same happens to where everyone from the straw hats lived, most of the chapter is about the members of the straw hats came from, and at the end of the chapter we hear some1 say: where the hell am i, and we see a huge island.

well there is my prediction for what will happen in chapter 515.

k-dom
September 08, 2008, 02:28 PM
Do you know how organized Oda is??
Did you see the pic where Reileigh hit Shanks and Buggy?
That was a few hundred chapters ago and then he introduced Reyleigh.
He planned the sanji pic and took a joke over a few chapters.
He is so organized and he will plan so little things too.

Well I hope he has better things to do than to plan next week chapter in function of the anime that will be issued in 2 years without being unorganised.

Akainu
September 08, 2008, 02:58 PM
I don't know which anime you watch, but One Piece is definately closer than 100 chapters.
at the moment its around chapter 474, that makes 39 chapters. pretty close, not even a year even if there are some filler episodes and a whole arc of it, it's not 2 years.
anyway that was totally off topic...

now for somehing completly else which Superman's post reminded me of: we haven't seen Buggy for a while, so how about a chapter of further reactions to the execution note?
I wouldn't mind seeing a shadowy figure being Dadan, Dragon, WB (no we won't see the fight yet...), Luffy's and thus Ace's hometown and because he deserves some screentime (the dumbest possible out of all the reasons :P) Buggy. on the other side I would like to see the Gorosei and the Shichibukai meeting too. it should be an interlude chapter in any case.

k-dom
September 08, 2008, 03:45 PM
sorry my mistake, I confused myself with episode-chapter difference.
Since the SH are not dead nor in prison, and since the marine do not know what happen to them, do you think it will be revealed to the news ?

Networks
September 08, 2008, 07:00 PM
THIS is One Piece, dear friends, isn't a shonen who a hero learn attack from nothing and defeat a enemy 20 times stronger

Thw Straw Hat crew was easily defeat

BlackHair
September 08, 2008, 07:58 PM
woot? I can't see him on the picture lol xD he's not there is he?

Edit: Nvm, u just gave the wrong link, he was on the previous page.. :) But i dont see why u can draw conclutions as Vagapunk beeing on the island
Sento is Vegapunks bodyguard. Normally a bodyguards job is to guard his client. Thats why many r assuming, me included that VP may be on this Island.


Do you know how organized Oda is??
Did you see the pic where Reileigh hit Shanks and Buggy?
That was a few hundred chapters ago and then he introduced Reyleigh.
Oda is a genius, that's definitely given and I admire his work! But seriously, he couldn't have planned it like u said. As he draw the chapter with Buggy+Ace+Rayleigh it was not even chapter 50. Oda couldn't have known that his manga will go on for 500+ at that time. So far I never saw any long time series planned well matched from the beginning. I just saying, at that time he probably didn't even know that the guy was Rayleigh and Rogers right hand, just my opinion.

Imo Oda made some failure, like making Buggy too weak as a former apprentice on Rogers ship and Shanks losing his arm to a sea monster even though he is that powerful and who was fighting evenly with Mihawk. I could find some more if I search better, infarct I could find for any long time series. But that is my opinion.


THIS is One Piece, dear friends, isn't a shonen who a hero learn attack from nothing and defeat a enemy 20 times stronger
Actually that happened with Rob Lucci. Just compare Luffy W7 and Enis Lobby. His power-up comes from nowhere and was amazing.

r3born
September 08, 2008, 08:24 PM
He learned his power by witnessing how the CP9 crew fought. He didn't learn out of nothing. He actually learn something from past mistake and learn something new, on his own. No teacher crap.

Shiro-kun
September 08, 2008, 08:51 PM
^They are benefits of having a teacher they guide you until you eventually do it yourself and when you can create things by yourself , But in Luffy's case he is a genius at fighting and in many cases he learns how to defeat his enemies by just observing them (Crocodliles weaknesses and learning a Soru like ablitiy) .

r3born
September 08, 2008, 08:53 PM
So, that means he is not a typical shonen hero. :) WEEEEE

ascalon
September 08, 2008, 09:34 PM
THIS is One Piece, dear friends, isn't a shonen who a hero learn attack from nothing and defeat a enemy 20 times stronger

Thw Straw Hat crew was easily defeat

Yea. Sure would've been horrible if black flames came out his eyes wouldn't it? :p

JC123
September 08, 2008, 10:18 PM
Remember, he kicked the right #3 through gut instinct. He learns just through guts alone.

RichardMNixon
September 08, 2008, 10:54 PM
I just saying, at that time he probably didn't even know that the guy was Rayleigh and Rogers right hand, just my opinion.


I read that he explicitly told the animators to follow that part exactly as he had written it so they didn't make any kind of continuity errors, so I think he knew Rayleigh was important.

It did seem Sentoumaru was scared of Monster Chopper, he just dodged and never fought back. Looks like MC is the real deal, just wondering if he can come out of it by himself now. Three days flying in that form would not be good for him.

chitgoks
September 08, 2008, 11:08 PM
i dont think there'd be any news about the sh for now. it will shift back to WB. just like when ace was defeated by blackbeard, they didn't show what happened next. only later

wrstljr
September 08, 2008, 11:44 PM
Actually that happened with Rob Lucci. Just compare Luffy W7 and Enis Lobby. His power-up comes from nowhere and was amazing.



Actually Luffy had Gear 2 and 3 learned before he even got to W7. He developed them right after fighting with Aokiji cause he realized how weak he was.

bittman
September 09, 2008, 01:10 AM
I don't know what the argument is, Kuma said he will never meet Luffy again. If a man says that, then he does it with a DON!....couldn't resist. But basically, if Kuma doesn't want to meet someone, he won't. With a power like that, it's really that easy. My opinion on the Shichibukai has greatly changed to the point where I expect Kuma to be the one Shichibukai who will possibly ally, at some point, with the Strawhat's.

That said, I don't think he just did them a major kindness. He may have "rescued" them from Kizaru, but I expect him to have scattered them as a test. Why? Because he's Kuma.

More importantly, I wonder where PX-1 was teleported? I hope he makes a reappearance, I quite liked him.

dinothegrinch
September 09, 2008, 01:46 AM
perhaps when kuma was a pirate, he knew dragon, and that he owed him a great debt, and kuma, knowing that luffy is dragon's son, saved the strawhats to pay his debt, whatever the debt may be. i support the theory in which they were sent 3 days into the future. but, before kuma sent zoro kun "flying" kuma gave him a decision of where he wanted to go, and knowing that he sent the rest of the crew to where zoro was. When kuma dashed towards rayleigh and spoke to him, he was risking alot, because to sentomaru and kizaru, they would think that kuma is siding with him...but rayleigh's response got me wondering what exactly kuma told him...

FTWer
September 09, 2008, 02:37 AM
The way Kuma said he didn't know himself, made it seems like it was following orders.

If not Dragon, than some parts of the World government might be behind it. Maybe they want to succeed from the WG.

Yans86
September 09, 2008, 02:57 AM
What fi they were scattered.............in the past???I like Dragon theories,and future theory to,but I think that for Dragon is to early to appear,we have Kizaru and rayleigh already that are huge characters,Sentoumaru and all the mistery around Kuma...so what if they scattered in the past?an extent of his power can be time travel cause space and time are related....3 nights and 3 days,that in reality they can be more days,or a duty/mission that u have to achieve during the travel to get back to the starting point,like...if u don't have the quality to achieve a particuular goal that u choose to make a particular travel,u won't ever go back or u go back dead,but if u achieve it u go back automatically!!!!so even if they are scattered in the future or in the past and they stay there also for weeks or months or years or until they die,the only way to get back is to achieve the goal/reason to the travel u choose....with the present time is solved that achieving the gol, after 3days and 3night of the present time u get back safe,if not.....u get back dead....
PS
Sorry for my bad english,I hope u understand the statement...
PPS
Kuma likes strawhat crew,so according to my theory and what happened,maybe he want them to get back stronger before leaving to fishman island,cause he know that they have strong will.....or maybe he's done this always acording to my theory to prepare them not only for the NW,but also to be prepared to face the future war,and meet some people related with him...

chitgoks
September 09, 2008, 03:02 AM
who knows someone pulling the strings on the world government is actually a pirate itself and ordered kuma haha. wild theory

dsr
September 09, 2008, 04:18 AM
Just saw the stuff posted by Vassili.
WTF!!!
I think that Oda will surprise us for the next time.
A woman with a snake? Could SHE be Vegapunk?

Yabe
September 09, 2008, 04:31 AM
Just saw the stuff posted by Vassili.
WTF!!!
I think that Oda will surprise us for the next time.
A woman with a snake? Could SHE be Vegapunk?
Bwahaha! Yes I'm already surprised.
And Oda did use the personal pronoun "his" when he mentioned Vegapunk in SBS! That Amazon girl looked hot though.

Akainu
September 09, 2008, 04:34 AM
did I understand it right (from google, lol) that Luffy landed in heaven? and now he is eating mushrooms to recover? it must be the flying dutchman :D
for the girl I hope Sanji is near, though ... it reads as if he is on his own

brebaz
September 09, 2008, 04:41 AM
I thought we won't see SH for a while! but that is just fantastic :D

Amazon lily fits as a crew member!!

Yans86
September 09, 2008, 05:07 AM
Lady lady island!!!!!!!!!!I can't believe it!!!!!!pour Sanji...........let's make a petition to send him there too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

dsr
September 09, 2008, 05:25 AM
Since I used to read in Italian, in our grammar Dr."put a random name within the brackets" is always male gender, even if the doctor is a SHE, so you can understand my misunderstaning.
Well, this is just a page, but it surely shows that the crew is scattered.

chitgoks
September 09, 2008, 05:28 AM
they're going to train luffy to improve his fighting skills and more techniques ... ihope so hehehe

Yabe
September 09, 2008, 05:31 AM
@dsr: I see, sorry.

Also, Amazon Lily theme = Shampoo's village from Ranma1/2; I love Oda for this thing, One Piece's amazing.

The spoilers must be the last part of the chapter I think, it wouldn't be good to the story to jump passing 3 days 3 nights from the last chap without any eventful intervals during the time.

But I'm so happy Oda's kind enough to let us know Sentoumaru's words are true, and even seeing the location of Luffy.

@brebaz: I'm dreaming so but 'Marguerite' isn't a simple name enough :P Srsly, she doesn't look so ground like the other SHs are... Let's hope there's the other more simpler Lily in this islands.

Yans86
September 09, 2008, 05:35 AM
I hope she is going to join the crew.....a hot amazon warrior ihihih ihihi ihih fall ni love for Sanji and have Nami pissed.this would be cool!!!!but also it would be cool if actually she is the 7th Shichibukai!!!!!!

Trafalgar Law
September 09, 2008, 05:40 AM
Sanji will kill Luffy by pure jealousy, you heard it here first. :P

Oni_James
September 09, 2008, 05:56 AM
i think all his island will be beaten by Luffy and she'll fall in love with Luffy and Sanji will be pissed with this XD

but also it would be cool if actually she is the 7th Shichibukai!!!!!!
it'd be cool, but all the Shichibukai are vs WB, and with Moria PWND and Kuma in Shabody, wouldn't it be a little unresponsible trying to handle the most powerful man in OP with only 4 Shichibukai (and one of them being a noob inside the Shichibukai)
RANDOM SUUUUUUUPER PREDICTION!!:
She's Lola's mum...:p or may be...Akainu XD

chitgoks
September 09, 2008, 06:22 AM
doesnt look like lola's mom. totally opposite

d3death
September 09, 2008, 06:38 AM
Yea i agree its NOT lola's mom

but bit suprising.


i thought no SH for many days.

d3death
September 09, 2008, 06:46 AM
woot? I can't see him on the picture lol xD he's not there is he?

Edit: Nvm, u just gave the wrong link, he was on the previous page.. :) But i dont see why u can draw conclutions as Vagapunk beeing on the island


ahhh my bad

thanks
for correction


and well as BlackBeard said before a body guard's job is to protect that specific person.

so he should be closeby.

Kamikage
September 09, 2008, 06:56 AM
If they were TPd to Dragon, then maybe he can take them back to their boat with his wind power :)

Akainu
September 09, 2008, 07:13 AM
unexpected but yet cool, something very different to fighting (anticlimax doesn't really fit, it's rather like going down on a rollercoaster knowing the looping comes next...).
so, how are the chances we are going to see all the sh alone in the following chapters? and how long may that go on? for 9 people, even if its just 3 chapters each it would take half a year :s, my guess would be that they run inot each other (Luffy's journey to regain his nakama one by one - in original order?)

BlackHair
September 09, 2008, 07:16 AM
Well then my prediction to be teleported on or near the island seems to be wrong. Oda surprised me well again :P I hope he delays the entrance in the NW not too much, I have rly no interests in 20 chapter of "SHs little adventure". Well lets wait.. :D

unexpected but yet cool, something very different to fighting (anticlimax doesn't really fit, it's rather like going down on a rollercoaster knowing the looping comes next...).
so, how are the chances we are going to see all the sh alone in the following chapters? and how long may that go on? for 9 people, even if its just 3 chapters each it would take half a year :s, my guess would be that they run inot each other (Luffy's journey to regain his nakama one by one - in original order?)
I agree. It will take several chapter to show them all. Imo it is anti climax .. im kind disspointed. Was looking WB+Shich xD

mundu_king
September 09, 2008, 07:19 AM
is that a true spoiler?!!!

descendant
September 09, 2008, 07:27 AM
what!!! i just can't believe it. totally unpredictable! >_>
mushrooms? lady island?? maybe it's just luffy's dream but i doubt it .. only sanji would dream bout this kinda stuff

i'm having doubts bout this spoiler too
it's too soon and there's only one pic

mundu_king
September 09, 2008, 07:50 AM
yaa maybe the pic is real... but they just twist the plot to make a fake spoiler!!

if its true, wow! a very interesting anti-climax from Oda!

JC123
September 09, 2008, 07:52 AM
Two things if real...

1) There's a race that even the Tenryuubito fear which is strange

2) They seem to be Amazonian in nature.

More as I get back from work and school...

lordzeb
September 09, 2008, 08:03 AM
why does this feel like a filler arc so far...i wanted fishman island :(

ikuroi
September 09, 2008, 08:08 AM
Damn, will we see how everyone split up in diffrent directions or did they all land on the same island. Anyways, I'm really curious what happend on the island? Rayleigh, Kizaru, Kuma.... and what's up with Ace and the WB's war agaisnt the WG, and what the hell is Shanks doing? SO many questions... so few answears.

mars0103
September 09, 2008, 08:09 AM
Well what is with kuma we now that he knows of dragon my be he nows luffys mother as well and she is on that island to far fetched. vreally it is a good way to protect luffy and crew from that idiot yellow monkey.