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Gold Knight
August 06, 2006, 08:35 PM
And so begins a new era...!

Ah, sorry, I'm not talking Naruto here. I'm talking about my new life at my new house! :p

Unfortunately that wasn't even the main reason that I was absent all week - it was actually technical problems that just happened to keep me from having access to my favorite forum (I know, can you imagine the agony? Aagh!) But after some much-needed instruction from a true computer guru (thanks Taye!), I'm back now and more than rarin' to go! So let's do it!

Please enjoy and comment away when you have time. ;)


* * * Gold Knight's Ten Comments on Naruto Chapter 318: Favorable Training! * * *


http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/3975/promotionjo2.jpg
Another movie, another new fad at your local Hot Topic shop ... Believe it!

1. Yaaay, More Color... Yeah, Right. After the greatness that was the first three colored pages of the last Naruto chapter, it's really not fair at all to compare this week's edition to that one. But even though I already knew coming into the week that the colored cover for this chapter would be a promotion for the third Naruto movie, I was still left with an empty feeling after seeing it. Bah, humbug...! Why can't they just keep these movie advertisements away from the chapter itself? Why not, say, a bonus poster, tucked away elsewhere in the magazine? No offense against the movies or anything, but I want to see Kishimoto's art centering on what's going on in the manga, not its anime counterpart(s)! Ah well... guess it's all in the interest of making money. Kakuzu would approve, no doubt...!

Well, while I really could care less about the secondary characters shown in the poster (they look like a bunch of refugees from the Snow Country), I have to confess that it was pretty interesting to see Naruto wearing that orange sleeveless jacket. In fact, I'd even go as far as say that I like it better than his current outfit in the manga, even though it looks considerably less ninja-like and more modern. Well, I'm no fashion expert (though I've dated a girl here and there interested in it, but I digress!) but to my eyes, it not only looks more comfortable but also a better fit for his personality. Could it be because it lacks any black whatsoever...? If you think about how Naruto never really worried about fitting in with the rest of the village in Part 1, it probably would have been appropriate if he had kept on wearing all orange and blue without a care in the world, and as shown here, he wouldn't have looked any less mature for it. Hmm.


http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7154/friedbrainkx7.jpg
Brain fried, eh, Naruto?

2. Total Recall... with a Hefty Price! Aha! I think there was a discussion some time ago on the forums about the possible limits that would be placed on Naruto in order to keep him from being too "invincible" (a la Ichigo of Bleach fame). Somebody here had suggested to me that one of the negative side-effects of the Kage Bunshin maximized in training would be mental fatigue. Well... Bingo! Right on. When Naruto undid his jutsu and his bunshins' training experience swarmed every corner of his mind, sure enough, he passed out.

Nice that he's back on his feet only a short while later, though. Must be the Kyuubi's healing ability at work (something I don't think Yamato could suppress).

This brings to us another question, however. How is it that, in the past, Naruto was able to utilize the Kage Bunshin before in actual battle without suffering this setback? Even though he had not been focusing on absorbing the memories of his clones, he should have still shown some sign of slowing down when the last of his bunshins had been defeated by, say, Kimimaro. But as evidenced by the end of that battle (http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6712/narutoch209p10js2.png), right before Sasuke had erupted from his container, Naruto had shown absolutely no signs of stopping to take a brief nap. So, what's going on?

Maybe Naruto has actually benefited all this time from his ignorance of the memory absorption ability of the Kage Bunshin. By focusing so much on his objective in a given mission instead of taking a pause to assemble and "listen to" all the new memories appearing in his head, he's actually found a way to bypass this annoyance?

Or could it be his Kyuubi-level endurance - which COULD have been lowered by Yamato's jutsu during this exercise - that had always allowed him to fight on before without snoozing? This seems more likely to me.


http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8623/wtfej7.jpg
WTF just happened?

3. Tobi... a Tonberry in Disguise!? :eyeroll Ok - please bear with me here for a moment, people! Yup, I'm about to go into one of my obscure analogies... well, if you're not much of a gamer. ;)

A standard tonberry (http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/1010/tonberrycw8.jpg) is a creepy, enigmatic green-skinned monster in Final Fantasy games known to stumble around, usually with a lit lantern in one hand and a glistening kitchen knife in the other. On first sight, it looks nothing more than a bumbling, harmless, and relatively easy opponent... that is, until it finally orients on you! If it does score a love tap on your character, then whether you're ready or not, it's game over! :o ( Unless you've got a ridiculous amount of hit points, of course, or a healer in the party... :tem )

I've always believed that Tobi wasn't as weak and pathetic as he seemed to be, and his mysterious "one-hit KO" here on a bijuu of all things certainly seems to make him out to be very formidable, dangerous, and often underestimated enemy, just like a Tonberry.

But the biggest question now is: what exactly in the name of Zeus' butthole did Tobi just do here? Guess we'll have to find that one out some other time... it's obvious Kishimoto meant this scene to be a teaser of sorts, and to surprise all the readers that had started to think that Tobi was an useless member of the Akatsuki.

Still, what the heck? :o


http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4109/looks1yb7.jpg
If looks could kill...

4. Braggin' Rights in the Akatsuki? Gotta admit, I'm loving this development in the Akatsuki. Deidara and Tobi are obviously like fire and water, but at the same time, they're both undeniably villains in that they're more egocentric than modest. Even when the scene is supposed to be funny, you're reminded that they're the bad guys.

I can certainly understand Tobi's pride in having defeated a bijuu for the first time as a member of the Akatsuki, but I wasn't expecting Deidara to be totally unwilling to give all the credit to him, despite his exploding dolls probably being of little use here. That's definitely realistic if he's supposed to be a villain, and I liked that. And to boot, they're still pretty entertaining, huh.

At the same time, though, it's bizarre story-telling to me; most of the time, you know, the comedy relief is usually over on the protagonists' side (as in One Piece and Bleach), but in this particular series, we're seeing more and more of it from the antagonists'. Villains are usually reserved and cold-blooded, but in Naruto, we're obviously seeing the flip side of the coin (aside from Itachi, of course).

Sidenote: Funny how Deidara has suddenly gone from that annoying little brother (as he was to Sasori) to the often annoyed big brother (as he is to Tobi now), as well...! Makes you really wonder whether it's better to be the senpai or the understudy in the Akatsuki. Even the Leader himself got some lip (from Sasori)...! (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4424/v29ch260pg18nw5.png) He did seem to take it in stride, chuckling it away, but that could mean that he's used to criticism from the other members.


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3616/leafcelebrationbx8.jpg
Wait until he finds out he's got to treat Chouji to dinner...!

5. Celebration Time! Awww... just look at all these Narutos throwing their leaves up in the air. You'd think they had just graduated from the Academy all over again, they're so happy.

Guess both Naruto and Tobi will have victory cigars tonight...! :smoke


http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4131/waterfallvs3.jpg
Ooo, fun.

6. But Wait...! It's not over yet...! Guess this means that everybody who voted 2-3 chapters in the 316 Comments Poll (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=6311.0) will probably fail. This also includes yours truly... if that's any consolation. ;)

If we're to take Kakashi literally here, this could be the *final* training exercise before things start to get heated, though. This is the stage where Naruto will learn how to use wind as a weapon, but at the same time, it's not the entire goal. He still has to create a monster jutsu, after all. So we might still have a ways to go in this training storyline after all.

Now, how does one exactly sever a waterfall with wind...?

Using the power of my imagination, here's the two possibilities I came up with: 1) Naruto will have to learn how to control an excess of wind to the point where he's able to successfully blow away a large mass of the waterfall away as it's falling, and 2) the objective will actually be splitting the cliffside behind the waterfall into two separate landmarks, which would technically count as "severing" the waterfall into two.

Either way, looks like some serious windpower Naruto will be harnessing here in a while...!


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9464/bijuuiz9.jpg
All in a day's work.

7. Not Such a Beast, After All? Or maybe to be more precise, the bijuus are even more animal-like than we suspected. Think about what Deidara said here. He basically referred to the tailed beasts as "dumb animals" that hardly comprehended how to best utilize their powerful energies in order to create intricate and specific jutsus. Basically, they depend on brute power and their breath for the most part, which would be good enough to flatten any unsuspecting villages in their path of destruction. I actually like this revelation, considering that if it was otherwise, we'd have ninja Godzillas and King Kongs, which is just ridiculous, right? (Of course, we DO have talking Boss Toads and monkeys that can transform into staffs in this series, but whatever.)

This also explains how one person, albeit a powerful being, such as Yondaime would have been able to capture and defeat the Kyuubi, the most powerful youma in the Naruto world. If the Nine Tails is supposed to be the most powerful embodiment of chakra in the world, then if it actually knew how to manipulate its own energies to create all sorts of jutsus, then I doubt that Yondaime would have been able to even get close to the Nine-Tails, even given his knack for speed. This also seems to explain why the Akatsuki believe that they can successfully capture even "liberated" bijuus, because they are actually easier to catch than jinchuuriki.

And I also appreciate that in their own fashion, the jinchuuriki are even more dangerous than their bijuus, because of their intelligence and deeper knowledge of how to work with their chakra through training regimens and personal tutelage. For example, just compare Gaara to when he had turned into the Shukaku. Which one would you rather face, if you were a jounin? (http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9495/gaaravf5.jpg) I still think that normal Gaara, when he's not being dominated, is a far more difficult opponent, simply because he's able to think and strategize like any other human being. Man is still the most feared enemy even in this mystical world, too, it seems.

And slowly but surely, we're starting to realize why the Akatsuki are so confident. Where bijuus are for the most part as easily trapped as deer when tracked and hunted right, jinchuurikis can also be taken advantage of because of their psychological problems. Sometimes they're green, sometimes they're literally self-destructing without any help at all, and sometimes the Akatsuki even get additional help from locals to capture them, as Deidara remarked once to Naruto. (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6384/v30ch26615jj1.png)

Of course, you still got to be pretty good to even think about it in the first place...!


http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/7678/sleepingtobiga9.jpg
Sleeping with one eye still open - what a guy!

8. Look at Who's Passed Out, Too...! Strange how Kishimoto keeps giving us parallels between Naruto and Tobi in this chapter, almost as if he was trying to tell us that they're pretty similar. First their respective celebrations, and now Tobi's also passed out after his own accomplishment!

Even though it might have just been a nap without a precedent, I still have to wonder if Tobi's 1-hit KO jutsu had taken so much chakra that he had to rest for a while, as well.

Funny thought: just imagine if Naruto and Tobi both used their "ultimate jutsus" against each other, and then subsequently passed out for 30 minutes at the same time! I can just hear the "WTF's" coming from the readers now...


http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6730/kakuzupk4.jpg
Wanna make my day, punk?

9. You Reap What You Sow... Ah, a return to Hidan and Kakuzu! Even if it's only for a page, I still enjoyed it. I still enjoy their banter more than Deidara and Tobi's, it just somehow feels more... real. Or maybe it's more or less because they consider themselves more on equal terms, unlike Deidara and Tobi. It's just a more problematic partnership, because neither considers the other a superior (or as far as we know).

Anyway, Hidan's refusal to take on Kakuzu's burden just served to even further illustrate the points I made in Comment # 4 - that these guys, even though they're working together, are still obviously looking out for themselves. Why? Because, well, I reckon they're the bad guys. And that's enjoyable to a degree to watch how exactly they do manage to get things done in spite of all their differences and dislikes for each other. That's the charm of depicting supervillain teams that I think most writers forget, but I think Kishimoto gets it perfectly.

And hmm.. who would win in a death staring contest, Deidara or Kakuzu? Hoo boy...


http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5810/asumateamba8.jpg
Let's roll, guys!

10. Sic 'Em, Boys! Oooh. Well, well. Asuma, Shikamaru, AND Izumo and Kotetsu? I've always wondered if Kishimoto would someday feature the two latter guys. Hey, they've been around since waaaay back when Naruto's team first applied for the Chuunin Exams (http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/5272/naruto36010dw3.jpg), but they've only really got an appearance here (http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/3874/naruto401011mr8.jpg), here (http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/70/naruto11915uw6.jpg), and there (http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/3627/narutov22c182p02ur8.png) since then. (And some fanart (http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/5199/izumokotetsuzy0.jpg), if you want!) I was already glad that Kishimoto seemed to be starting to include the other jounins, but didn't expect THESE two. That made the chapter for me - I had been somewhat unimpressed with the chapter until this came up. Looks like we'll be finding out what they're made of soon, finally. I always liked Kotetsu in particular - something about his design, I guess. We already know they're both very good at genjutsu, but aside from that...

So Chiriku is dead? Hmm, well, we didn't really see any life signs from him after he was defeated. I'm not sure what the point would be in sending 20 platoons otherwise in tracking Kakuzu and Hidan other than to append them, but I guess I shouldn't say too much, given that I've been kind of impatient with Tsunade lately, and she's finally getting off her round arse and doing something. Hopefully these 20 platoons will keep an eye out for the other Akatsuki, though. It'd be pretty bad if all the eighty of these Konoha shinobi end up going north when the rest of the Akatsuki's actually approaching from the south...!

And since Asuma mentioned that Chiriku should have been present, even though he was retired, I'm going to assume these 20 platoons are the current "20 guardian ninjas" of Konoha, except they're all new teams. So - cool that Shikamaru's a part of the squads as well. Chuunin, examiner, and guardian - so what's next on Shikamaru's resume, anyway? Hopefully he'll be a jounin soon, he certainly seems to meet most of the expectations.

RATING: 4 out of 5 stars. While still a cool chapter, things are starting to drag a bit more than I'd like - even though the Akatsuki are still involved. Now that we know that the training is going to be longer than three chapters, I don't really expect anything to happen for another three chapters at least. Hopefully I'm wrong, though, and we get some serious action soon. Though I wouldn't mind seeing the dysfunctional Akatsuki teams banter some more.

Predictions: Hm. Naruto will be practicing trying to cut the waterfall, and I suppose we'll get some looks at how Asuma's "platoon" team is doing. I'd kind of like to see other platoon teams in action as well - even if it means some new characters being introduced. But even more than that, I'd like to see some old characters being re-introduced (for example, some of the guys from Ibiki's examiner team back in Chapter 40!)

Credits: Thanks to Bakabaka's scanlation, which I pretty much used for the whole review. (Didn't have much time to look at anything else.) I also used the Touch's super HQ Raw, which helped me in getting some nice images to post ( they were even easy to clean. Heh. )

Hope you enjoyed, and looking forward to seeing what you think!


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4570/looks2zt4.jpg
I dare you to make a comment... un!

glasskatana
August 06, 2006, 09:11 PM
YES!!! The camping was worth it.
More comments to come.

white silver
August 06, 2006, 09:25 PM
[b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Fantastic comments as always! Anyways, do you think that "this" is the time where Shikimaru finds out who's King?

The Boff
August 06, 2006, 09:27 PM
looooove the tonberry comparison! and yeah he seems to be a little like that...



(although first time i met a tonberry in ff7 i was lvl 70ish and had 9999hp so i whopt his ass :p)

white silver
August 06, 2006, 09:28 PM
[b][font=verdana][size=1]By the way [color=red]GK. Try to visualize tobi without the spirals, don't you think it looks a sort of an ANBU mask? Maybe he was a hunter-nin from his country.

glasskatana
August 06, 2006, 09:53 PM
Alright, I said I'd comment and I will. I have just a few comments to add.

1.) You mentioned the parallel between Naruto and Tobi GK, but that's not all. In fact the entire conversation was paralleled.

Tobi-I did it=naruto clones-yes we did it.
Deidara-it was my art that did it=Kakashi-It was my brilliant idea that did it
The only difference is that at the very end Kishi reinforces that Kakashi is a good guy by having him help Naruto when he's passed out while deidara is a bad guy by...blowing tobi sky high.

Also both Kakashi and Deidara have a false left eye which I find interesting.

2.)How is that waterfall still running? I asked it in the discussion thread but I believe that it merits mention here as well.

3.)Naruto OMG. If we assume that Naruto has always created 1000 clones at a time as told by Kakashi then that would mean that he is now working with 1,000,000,000th of his original chakra. This is in my mind, impossible. It may be that if the jutsu is released that some chakra is converted, returned, and redistributed to the clones much like the knowledge gained.

4.)Mental fatigue. You hit the nail on the head Gold Knight, why hasn't Naruto suffered it before. Perhaps he never had this many clones consciously working on the exact same thing. Perhaps the knowledge of "how to perform jutsu" flooding into Naruto's mind is more strenuous then, let's say the knowledge of "Kimimaro just owned me." :p

Anyway, I'm gonna state my joke theory here and now. Naruto isn't stupid, all that shadow cloning has simply put him in a constant state of mental fatigue. In actuality he's smarter than Einstein.

That's all for now. Great comments as always. :thumbs

Mystikal
August 06, 2006, 09:55 PM
[ So - cool that Shikamaru's a part of the squads as well. Chuunin, examiner, and guardian - so what's next on Shikamaru's resume, anyway? Hopefully he'll be a jounin soon, he certainly seems to meet most of the expectations. ]

Regarding this, I think Shikamaru IS already a jounin if I'm not wrong, its stated when Naruto went back to Konoha @ the beginning of part 2 remember? The part where he said everybody is a chuunin now and Shikamaru and Neji are Jounins and he is the only genin left if I'm not wrong.

glasskatana
August 06, 2006, 09:58 PM
[ So - cool that Shikamaru's a part of the squads as well. Chuunin, examiner, and guardian - so what's next on Shikamaru's resume, anyway? Hopefully he'll be a jounin soon, he certainly seems to meet most of the expectations. ]

Regarding this, I think Shikamaru IS already a jounin if I'm not wrong, its stated when Naruto went back to Konoha @ the beginning of part 2 remember? The part where he said everybody is a chuunin now and Shikamaru and Neji are Jounins and he is the only genin left if I'm not wrong.


No no, Shikamaru is still a chuunin, though it's easy to confuse as it seems like he thinks and acts like a jounin. The 3 sand siblings, and Neji are the only original genins of Naruto-land who have become jounins.

Gold Knight
August 06, 2006, 10:27 PM
Yep, Glasskatana is right - everybody but Naruto and Sasuke has become chuunins, Temari, Kankurou, and Neji became jounins, and Gaara, as we all know, became the Big Boss at Sunagakure. Shikamaru's still a chuunin, although it boggles my mind how he and Chouji aren't already jounins, from what we've seen of what they can do now.

Kunai jutsu - more than likely. Haku also had a mask that signified that he was a part of an assemblage of special-nins within the Mist Country, so who's to argue that Tobi didn't once belong to a similar clandestine agency somewhere else in the world? Not the ANBU, no, because I don't see him as being formerly from Konohagakure (despite all the Obito theories...!) but masks do have a significance in this series, we've seen that much.



Alright, I said I'd comment and I will. I have just a few comments to add.

1.) You mentioned the parallel between Naruto and Tobi GK, but that's not all. In fact the entire conversation was paralleled.

Tobi-I did it=naruto clones-yes we did it.
Deidara-it was my art that did it=Kakashi-It was my brilliant idea that did it
The only difference is that at the very end Kishi reinforces that Kakashi is a good guy by having him help Naruto when he's passed out while deidara is a bad guy by...blowing tobi sky high.

Also both Kakashi and Deidara have a false left eye which I find interesting.

Haha. I did neglect to notice the Deidara-Kakashi parallel, although I did think that it was funky that Kakashi actually thought "yeah... all due to my great idea," but decided not to comment. I guess it's mainly because my mind refused to associate Kakashi with Deidara that I failed to notice that, but you're right. Maybe Kakashi and Deidara also had similar backgrounds but followed different paths. Hmm...


2.)How is that waterfall still running? I asked it in the discussion thread but I believe that it merits mention here as well.

Good question... heck if I know. Maybe Yamato created some kind of major erupting geyser-fountain to go with the whole package. Maybe we'll find out in the next chapter.


3.)Naruto OMG. If we assume that Naruto has always created 1000 clones at a time as told by Kakashi then that would mean that he is now working with 1,000,000,000th of his original chakra. This is in my mind, impossible. It may be that if the jutsu is released that some chakra is converted, returned, and redistributed to the clones much like the knowledge gained.

Well, I recently noticed a quote by Sakura when she was observing Naruto's seemingly reckless usage of his bunshins that seemes to indicate otherwise...

Here ya go, the page. (http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/5109/naruto12112qj2.png)

Funnily enough that's from the very same chapter where Neji commented that Naruto distributed his chakra evenly among all his bunshins. Which leads me to think that in order to make the bunshin work, Naruto DOES have to expend some chakra, but at the same time he's also having to distribute the remainder of his chakra (but possibly he only does it that time in order to fool Neji's Byakugan. After all, Naruto had cleverly planned the whole prelude to that fight in order to get the drop on Neji from behind.)

Also, remember that perhaps Yamato allows Naruto to regain some chakra back (from the Kyuubi itself) during the breaks. Maybe that's how he gets his surplus chakra here.


4.)Mental fatigue. You hit the nail on the head Gold Knight, why hasn't Naruto suffered it before. Perhaps he never had this many clones consciously working on the exact same thing. Perhaps the knowledge of "how to perform jutsu" flooding into Naruto's mind is more strenuous then, let's say the knowledge of "Kimimaro just owned me." :p

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe if the clones doesn't have such dissimiliar experiences or observations, it'd be fine. With 1000 clones, though, in battling Kimimaro, I'd have expected SOME of Naruto's bunshins to pick up on several battle tactics... ah, well. Then again, Naruto never even seemed to be aware that these memories were coming back to him. Ergh. That's a little bit of a plot hole, if you ask me, but I guess every manga's got 'em.


Anyway, I'm gonna state my joke theory here and now. Naruto isn't stupid, all that shadow cloning has simply put him in a constant state of mental fatigue. In actuality he's smarter than Einstein.

Oooh. XD


That's all for now. Great comments as always. :thumbs


Thanks you guys :)

glasskatana
August 06, 2006, 10:36 PM
BTW, when I read this chapter a specific song jumped into my mind. Who wants to guess what it was? Are you too impatient? If you want to know RIGHT NOW what song I was thinking of then read the spoiler. If not, here's a hint.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i58/glasskatana/hint.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7154/friedbrainkx7.jpg

Lean on Me

And thanks for replying back. I agree that all the evidence is pointing that Naruto doesn't get any chakra back and that it is always evenly distributed. Still, the fact that he can still function at 1 billionth of his normal chakra levels is a bit strange. Your explanation is as good as any.

I too found it very out of character for Kakashi to take credit for naruto's progress like that. He's normally not that, egotistical. No, actually it's normally that he doesn't care whether he gets credit for it or not cause he's just a cool guy. I think it was rather forced to help enforce the parallel being created. Also we see that the end difference between the Akatsuki and Konoha ninja is very little. They think alike (as illustrated in that convo) except for one idea. Teamwork. Like I said before, Kakashi does not let his precious ones die and he always cares for them. (see pic above). Akatsuki members seem to have lost, or never had, that idea of friendship, companionship, or teamwork. I predict this to be the ultimate reason for their demise.

kiddo7
August 06, 2006, 10:43 PM
Yess! Finnaly I feel like a junkie who has ben deprived of his fix for half a week, then when he was least expecting it found just enough stuff to tide him over! Thank you for writing these comments

I actually have a theory on the price of the tottal recal and why it was never evidenced until now. It is actually very simple, THe only reason he got a brain cramp after releasing the jutsu is because all the thousands of the clones where learning and he suddenly "downloaded" an unspeakable amount of information, in short every possible way to cut that leaf and just about every detail about every aspect of the training. I mean even when he has no bunshins, if you try to tell him something that is slightly beyond the level of a 9 year old his head starts to hurt and he starts complaining, It should be no surprise to anyone that he passes out after proccesing a years worth of information in one day. all the other times he used kagebunshin he did not gain anything new from the experiance. He mostly just relied on sheer numbers to take care of his problems and like many have already said all of themm did mostly the same thing anyway. also your brain procceses things differently when you are trying to learn something than when something just happenes to cross your line of sight during a brawl.
I might comment more later, now I need some sleep!

jabbament
August 06, 2006, 11:29 PM
Hah, nice, Kiddo. Part of that is basically what I was going to comment on. :p

Though, there are a few things that come to mind. Some of this is what Kiddo said, some not...too lazy to edit it out since I already typed it all up:

1) Right now Naruto is learning how to do something new. It involved 1000+ clones manipulating chakra to cut a leaf. Now, if you take 1000+, who all make a little progress on cutting the leaf, and release the jutsu, all of the experience in cutting the leaf and how it was done is going to flood back into his mind, and it will cause mental fatigue. During a battle, however, Naruto doesn't use Ninjutsu, and doesn't really use his chakra for anything but making clones and Rasengan.

Since Naruto isn't doing anything that requires any mental power (i.e. he doesn't have to remember hand seals or concentrate/try to use his chakra for an elemental technique...yet), most of the stress he would affect his body, and not his mind...and since Naruto is a "stamina freak" by every plausable defintion of the term, he wouldn't notice physical exhaustion as quickly/easily as much as mental (arguably the weakest muscle in his body).

2) He can make 1,000 clones and if only 10 clones do anything, when he releases the jutsu, only the memory/experience of those 10 that did something would cause any sort of fatigue. If in a fight, 1,000 clones are made, 100 fight and 900 are on the sidelines, same thing...they did nothing, so there was nothing that Naruto could have learned/gained, so there was no fatigue from most of the clones.

3) We do not know that when he's fighting, when a clone is "killed" (i.e. it goes "poof" and disappears), if its memory is reabsorbed into Naruto himself. During this training, there are 1,000 clones all training/learning...when he releases, then he feels the full effect of the 1,000. If during a battle, he makes 1,000 clones, 500 die and only 100 survived that did any fighting, then he might just get the knowledge from the 100.

Kakashi has told Naruto to "release the jutsu" (releasing a jutsu is different than having a clone die), and concentrate. My guess is that you cannot gain experience/knowledge from something that died and disappeared.

4) Another probability is that Naruto has been using Kage Bunshin for years. He probably has gotten very used to the physical strain/fatigue that is placed on his body, but this new training is more mental than anything, and he is not used to using his mind like this at all.

Gold Knight
August 06, 2006, 11:38 PM
Nice post, kiddo7! A simple-minded strategy of "overwhelming opponents with sheer numbers" - good way to describe what Naruto's done for the most part with his Bunshins in the past, and I'm pretty sure Kishimoto would go with that as well. Also, nice analogy to the 9 year old, couldn't have said it better myself to explain the brain cramp.

I suppose as long as it's simple tasks, it's not so complicated. And also, fast. In a battle, moves are made in only seconds, especially when you're as fast as these guys are... each move and observation that his bunshins made likely lasted a matter of seconds, and that doesn't really equate to weeks, months, or years of study all in one hour. Thanks a lot for that post, kiddo7, it helped clear things up a bit more for me ^_^

Glasskatana, I don't find it TOO terribly out of character for Kakashi to be kinda egotisic - after all, he's sometimes a little too concerned with how he looks in a battle, so it makes sense he'd feel underappreciated when Naruto blurts out things like "I'm the master!" and stuff without acknowledging his help. Another thing I like about Kakashi, though, is unlike Deidara, he actually keeps his mouth shut.

Raine_Joybringer
August 06, 2006, 11:53 PM
I don't have much to say this chapter I suppose... there's just too much Tobi love for me to care about much else XD

But anyway, I was talking to my friend Clark (we have these kinds of discussions all the time), and I was wondering about the difference between a bijuu and a jinchuuriki. It's a rather curious situation in my eyes.

Dei said that the Sanbi was just 'a dumb animal' that couldn't use its power. Perhaps he just meant that the Sanbi is less sentient than some of the other bijuu? It's confused me because of the way Kyuubi has been portrayed thus far. In those scenes where we see Kyuubi on the loose, he does seem like a rabid beast; but when we see him in Naruto's mind, he seems to have a rather high-level of intelligence. Even Shukaku had some ideas, though he was a bit of a drunk tanuki... I'm wondering why we never saw Sanbi talk. And for that matter, what about Yugito when she changed into the Nibi?

*shrug* Anyway, it seems like a bijuu will depend on the advantage of their size in battle, rather than harnessing their powers the way a human would be able to. But then that raises questions about what is the difference between an animal, like say, Gamabunta, and the demons. Eh, I'm just more confused now.

Also, we had a bit of a talk about the 20 platoons. Apart from Shikamaru, we don't seem to have any of the other rookies/team Gai in there (though I THINK I spotted Shino...). I think Kishimoto didn't want to include them because many of those teams aren't going to have a happy ending...

fremeer
August 07, 2006, 12:02 AM
i think the reason why naruto is mentally fatigued is because all his clones were concentrating on their on thing and not a group mentality. When naruto fought before all his clones kinda did the same thing so naruto's recollection of the events after the clones were destroyed would not be too different which means less mental fatigue.

glasskatana
August 07, 2006, 12:09 AM
Glasskatana, I don't find it TOO terribly out of character for Kakashi to be kinda egotisic - after all, he's sometimes a little too concerned with how he looks in a battle, so it makes sense he'd feel underappreciated when Naruto blurts out things like "I'm the master!" and stuff without acknowledging his help. Another thing I like about Kakashi, though, is unlike Deidara, he actually keeps his mouth shut.

Lol, this is true. He does keep his mouth shut with his semi-mask thing. :p. I don't know why, but it still just seemed so wierd for Kakashi to say something like that (at least to me). It almost seemed childish to me, which is something I expect from Deidara, but not from the ultra-cool ninja Kakashi.

By the way, GK, (rhymes are fun) do you have some kind of problem with everybody's favorite exploding artist? :D

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 12:44 AM
I don't have much to say this chapter I suppose... there's just too much Tobi love for me to care about much else XD

But anyway, I was talking to my friend Clark (we have these kinds of discussions all the time), and I was wondering about the difference between a bijuu and a jinchuuriki. It's a rather curious situation in my eyes.

Dei said that the Sanbi was just 'a dumb animal' that couldn't use its power. Perhaps he just meant that the Sanbi is less sentient than some of the other bijuu? It's confused me because of the way Kyuubi has been portrayed thus far. In those scenes where we see Kyuubi on the loose, he does seem like a rabid beast; but when we see him in Naruto's mind, he seems to have a rather high-level of intelligence. Even Shukaku had some ideas, though he was a bit of a drunk tanuki... I'm wondering why we never saw Sanbi talk. And for that matter, what about Yugito when she changed into the Nibi?

*shrug* Anyway, it seems like a bijuu will depend on the advantage of their size in battle, rather than harnessing their powers the way a human would be able to. But then that raises questions about what is the difference between an animal, like say, Gamabunta, and the demons. Eh, I'm just more confused now.

Well, if you think about it, since the bijuu are mainly chakra "come to life," it makes sense that they don't think like normal humans, but rather are more instinctive beings. Summoned animals seem to me as though they are natural life beings and are born from the earth, so that might be your difference there.

Heh, as for demons... well, maybe a demon merged with the Kyuubi "being" and that's why it's so malevolent and sinister in its thinking...? Kinda like how the Shukaku seems not to have been originally one being.


Also, we had a bit of a talk about the 20 platoons. Apart from Shikamaru, we don't seem to have any of the other rookies/team Gai in there (though I THINK I spotted Shino...). I think Kishimoto didn't want to include them because many of those teams aren't going to have a happy ending...


Probably not. I agree.



i think the reason why naruto is mentally fatigued is because all his clones were concentrating on their on thing and not a group mentality. When naruto fought before all his clones kinda did the same thing so naruto's recollection of the events after the clones were destroyed would not be too different which means less mental fatigue.


Yeah.



By the way, GK, (rhymes are fun) do you have some kind of problem with everybody's favorite exploding artist? :D


I kinda never got over his taunting Naruto. I wanted to kill the bastard as much as Naruto did at the time ;)

I guess I'm not one for "bitchy" villains.

glasskatana
August 07, 2006, 12:58 AM
Yeah.

I kinda never got over his taunting Naruto. I wanted to kill the bastard as much as Naruto did at the time ;)

I guess I'm not one for "bitchy" villains.

ahh. I have to say that I would have much rather seen Naruto go 2-tail and woop some Akatsuki then go 4-tail against Oro. For some reason it would have made me feel more satisfied. I think it would've helped send the message to Akatsuki that Naruto should have sent a long time ago. That being, you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. But I don't hold anything against baddies who don't appreciate good guys. I used to hold things against good guys who don't appreciate good guys (one reason for my anti-Sasuke period of life which I have long-since gotten over.)

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 01:00 AM
^ I'm sure that moment will be coming, where Naruto whoops an Akatsuki's ass. But all the same, you have to admit a direct battle with Orochimaru was long in coming, and that also similarly gave me some satisfaction.

glasskatana
August 07, 2006, 01:03 AM
^ I'm sure that moment will be coming, where Naruto whoops an Akatsuki's ass. But all the same, you have to admit a direct battle with Orochimaru was long in coming, and that also similarly gave me some satisfaction.

The real question is would I rather see him mop the floor with Akatsuki members...or with Sasuke. I KNOW. I can get the best of both worlds when/if he kills Itachi. :kukuku (it makes me sad cause it will proabably never happen)

kadoman
August 07, 2006, 01:40 AM
Excellent! Bravo! *applause*

Glad you mentioned that about the parallel's between Naruto and Tobi. Initially, when I first read it, and hadn't read a translation, that is what I thought was happening - that Tobi's jutsu was somehow affecting Naruto in some way! Since reading the translation, it doesn't seem so, but it's still kinda odd how they're DRAWN that way even so. I'm talking about the order of their appearance in the panels etc.

Initially thought Tobi was going to have some ability to control/placate biiji which is why he has ended up in Akatsuki (cos he sure as hell ain't got no other Akatsuki qualities so far) and thought that was why he was having an effect on Naruto. My wild theory. :amuse I don't often have them.


Also, GK, we've been having a discussion in 318 Discussion Thread about the biiji and what makes it different from the fox. Some of us have been wondering 1. why it isn't a menace to society like the fox was and 2. why was it so easy to catch? Konoha's greatest Hokage had to sacrifice his life to do away with kyuubi but Deidi and Tobi have suffered no such misfortune in dealing with Mr Turtle. Thought that was quite curious.

Thanks for the comments! Woot! Love em'! :p

CheckMate
August 07, 2006, 01:56 AM
In response on Kadoman's post:

I would rather think the kyuubi is much more stronger than all 8-tailed beasts combined.

Yeah even on 8 on 1 situation, the winner is still the kyuubi.

That's the reason Yondaime had to sacrifice his life to defeat the greatest kyuubi, while deidara and tobi seems to be toying with them

yeste
August 07, 2006, 02:30 AM
I’m getting used to do this thing in the morning, damn my time zone! :p Ha ha! K let’s go…



And so begins a new era...!

Have a great one!!!



- it was actually technical problems that just happened to keep me from having access to my favorite forum (I know, can you imagine the agony? Aagh!) But after some much-needed instruction from a true computer guru (thanks Taye!), I'm back now and more than rarin' to go! So let's do it!

Glad to see your computer problems are gone! That’s always a pain…When these kind of things happen to me, I’d rather push my PC aside, in a corner somewhere and just plug a new one to my monitor than fix the damn problem…But that’s unlikely to happen!
Well I’ve considered making an “GK’s 318 comments agony thread” here, in your absence, but that one would probably go way more than 150 pages per hour, so… he,he,he!!!! :smile-big :smile-big :smile-big




1.Yaaay, More Color... Yeah, Right. After the greatness that was the first three colored pages of the last Naruto chapter, it's really not fair at all to compare this week's edition to that one. But even though I already knew coming into the week that the colored cover for this chapter would be a promotion for the third Naruto movie, I was still left with an empty feeling after seeing it. Bah, humbug...! Why can't they just keep these movie advertisements away from the chapter itself? Why not, say, a bonus poster, tucked away elsewhere in the magazine? No offense against the movies or anything, but I want to see Kishimoto's art centering on what's going on in the manga, not its anime counterpart(s)! Ah well... guess it's all in the interest of making money. Kakuzu would approve, no doubt...!

I kind of had my doubts about this one as well, more color, right! Sometimes I just don’t know what are those finishing comments at the end of the chapter really for, since they just tend to confuse us, and are never right!!! Man, it would be so great if Kishimoto just added some of his artwork like a bonus in a chapter, but real one, like the things he did earlier with Naruto and Sakura drown in Akira style… Think that wore chapter covers, but still, that would be fun to see, not movie commercial poster… Hmmm….



Maybe Naruto has actually benefited all this time from his ignorance of the memory absorption ability of the Kage Bunshin. By focusing so much on his objective in a given mission instead of taking a pause to assemble and "listen to" all the new memories appearing in his head, he's actually found a way to bypass this annoyance?

Or could it be his Kyuubi-level endurance - which COULD have been lowered by Yamato's jutsu during this exercise - that had always allowed him to fight on before without snoozing? This seems more likely to me.

Very nicely explained, nothing to add there…




Sidenote: Funny how Deidara has suddenly gone from that annoying little brother (as he was to Sasori) to the often annoyed big brother (as he is to Tobi now), as well...! Makes you really wonder whether it's better to be the senpai or the understudy in the Akatsuki. Even the Leader himself got some lip (from Sasori)...! He did seem to take it in stride, chuckling it away, but that could mean that he's used to criticism from the other members.

Now, this is very interesting…Considering just how many discussion has been about the leader… Just what kind of character has what it takes to be the leader of this kind of group!
Yes, this is shown in every pairing, but I don’t see it in Hidan/Kakazu pair so far… But we’ll see…It also looks to me that Toby/Diedra is the youngest pair in the Aka, so you know how these young ones are…



6. But Wait...! It's not over yet...! Guess this means that everybody who voted 2-3 chapters in the 316 Comments Poll will probably fail. This also includes yours truly... if that's any consolation.

Now, I’m thinking that it would take a lot more than this much… I’m guessing that Naruto’s training will become the side story for this volume, and will be dragged through it… Maybe he doesn’t even finish it, just move out when something happens, and finish it in a battle, YES,YES I’m thinking the Rasengan situation will happen again…But that’s just because I don’t see how this ultimate jutsu development will make him stronger and faster which wore the goals in the first place… I do believe that this too will be explained, but in the next 5-10 chapters…



7. Not Such a Beast, After All? Or maybe to be more precise, the bijuus are even more animal-like than we suspected. Think about what Deidara said here. He basically referred to the tailed beasts as "dumb animals" that hardly comprehended how to best utilize their powerful energies in order to create intricate and specific jutsus. Basically, they depend on brute power and their breath for the most part, which would be good enough to flatten any unsuspecting villages in their path of destruction. I actually like this revelation, considering that if it was otherwise, we'd have ninja Godzillas and King Kongs, which is just ridiculous, right? (Of course, we DO have talking Boss Toads and monkeys that can transform into staffs in this series, but whatever.)

This is one thing that was actually very important to find out!!! Again, you’ve heard me say this earlier, but here it is again --- Nice call!!!!



8. Look at Who's Passed Out, Too...! Strange how Kishimoto keeps giving us parallels between Naruto and Tobi in this chapter, almost as if he was trying to tell us that they're pretty similar. First their respective celebrations, and now Tobi's also passed out after his own accomplishment!

Man, I’d miss this for sure!!! Again not paying enough attention… Where exactly is Kishimoto going with these analogies??? Saske/Sai… And now this one??? Hmmmm



Why? Because, well, I reckon they're the bad guys.


It would certainly appear so!



So - cool that Shikamaru's a part of the squads as well. Chuunin, examiner, and guardian - so what's next on Shikamaru's resume, anyway? Hopefully he'll be a jounin soon, he certainly seems to meet most of the expectations.

He’s hanging out with the big boys!!! But really, cant wait to see what Shika can do… His fights wore always great!!! I’m also interested to see if Kishimoto will hold up his power level given to the Konoha junins… I know many don’t agree with me on this one, but I’ve never considered Konoha junins ( or the elite ones to be exact, where Asuma belongs ) to be inferior than Akatsuki members. Certainly not if they move in such a number. Against two guys. Or two teams. And there’s no almighty Itachi there, so Akatsuki teams might just end up being captured!!! It is a possibility, for me anyway!


Sorry, but I just must add that I was kind of disappointed with this chapter… Not really what I expected… Think the story is being dragged a bit to much…We’ll see!!! :p

GK, great work as usual!!! And totally worth waiting for till Monday!!! I’m still sleepy, so that’s it for me for now!!!!!!! :smile-big

destinator
August 07, 2006, 02:41 AM
Thanks for the very nice comments once again!

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 02:45 AM
The Kyuubi is still the most powerful bijuu of all for some reason, and I'm guessing it has to do with the number of tails. I'm not so sure that an 8-on-1 scenario would be so easy for the demon fox, especially since I still think the 6-Tails, 7-Tails, and 8-Tails are all pretty ferocious as well.

I think the answer to the Sanbi's lack of menace to society is because it's a sea monster. It's the Leviathan of the Naruto world, probably more used to terrorizing fish than people. Maybe ships and sailors would fear it, but I'm not so sure that it would have a major impact on land at all, like the Kyuubi would. I think ALL the bijuu that ever posed a threat to land have been captured and sealed into jinchuuriki, ie. Shukaku, Nibi, and the Kyuubi.

As for the parallels between Tobi and Naruto, my guess is Kishimoto is just trying to make an Akatsuki member that Naruto can potentially relate to at some point... I'm dyin' to find out what Tobi's powers are like, though.

Thanks for the "bravo's" and "woot's" :D

EDIT: Yeste!



I’m getting used to do this thing in the morning, damn my time zone! :p Ha ha! K let’s go…

Apologies XD


Have a great one!!!

Thanks!


Glad to see your computer problems are gone! That’s always a pain…When these kind of things happen to me, I’d rather push my PC aside, in a corner somewhere and just plug a new one to my monitor than fix the damn problem…But that’s unlikely to happen!

That's actually what I did for the better part of the week; had two PCs here, got frustrated with the older one with not being able to access MH, plugged into the "newest" and found that I couldn't even connect to the internet at all! :rolleyes I'm not entirely sure what's up with that, but luckily njt helped me figure out how to get my access back to MH on the older PC, and here I am. :amuse


Well I’ve considered making an “GK’s 318 comments agony thread” here, in your absence, but that one would probably go way more than 150 pages per hour, so… he,he,he!!!! :smile-big :smile-big :smile-big

LoL. You guys are great ;) I'll try to save you guys some agony next time - although, I guess that won't be for some time as there's no SJ next week.



Now, this is very interesting…Considering just how many discussion has been about the leader… Just what kind of character has what it takes to be the leader of this kind of group!
Yes, this is shown in every pairing, but I don’t see it in Hidan/Kakazu pair so far… But we’ll see…It also looks to me that Toby/Diedra is the youngest pair in the Aka, so you know how these young ones are…

You've touched on exactly what I've been thinking all day about the Leader. I think he's actually the easiest guy in the bunch to get along with - he must be, how else could he even get anybody in THAT organization to follow orders?

And nope, don't know how old Deidara and Tobi are. I'm sure we'll find out in the next Databook. Kishimoto certainly will have a lot of new material to add to it now.


Now, I’m thinking that it would take a lot more than this much… I’m guessing that Naruto’s training will become the side story for this volume, and will be dragged through it… Maybe he doesn’t even finish it, just move out when something happens, and finish it in a battle, YES,YES I’m thinking the Rasengan situation will happen again…But that’s just because I don’t see how this ultimate jutsu development will make him stronger and faster which wore the goals in the first place… I do believe that this too will be explained, but in the next 5-10 chapters…

That could happen, I agree. Naruto always seemed to be able to come up with his new jutsus in the thick of real battle, anyway. That's why I think this next stage of the training actually will be the last one before it all gets crazy.


He’s hanging out with the big boys!!! But really, cant wait to see what Shika can do… His fights wore always great!!! I’m also interested to see if Kishimoto will hold up his power level given to the Konoha junins… I know many don’t agree with me on this one, but I’ve never considered Konoha junins ( or the elite ones to be exact, where Asuma belongs ) to be inferior than Akatsuki members. Certainly not if they move in such a number. Against two guys. Or two teams. And there’s no almighty Itachi there, so Akatsuki teams might just end up being captured!!! It is a possibility, for me anyway!

I also agree that the Konoha jounins are probably stronger than we all think, as a general rule. Just look at their chuunins!


Sorry, but I just must add that I was kind of disappointed with this chapter… Not really what I expected… Think the story is being dragged a bit to much…We’ll see!!! :p

That was my initial feeling about the chapter too, that it wasn't all that, but the main thing is it still managed to effectively get me excited about the next chapter. If there's ever a chapter that DOESN"T do that, then it'll get a lower mark from me.


GK, great work as usual!!! And totally worth waiting for till Monday!!! I’m still sleepy, so that’s it for me for now!!!!!!! :smile-big


LoL, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Sorry again for the long wait ;)



Thanks for the very nice comments once again!


Thanks! ^^

white silver
August 07, 2006, 02:48 AM
3.)Naruto OMG. If we assume that Naruto has always created 1000 clones at a time as told by Kakashi then that would mean that he is now working with 1,000,000,000th of his original chakra. This is in my mind, impossible. It may be that if the jutsu is released that some chakra is converted, returned, and redistributed to the clones much like the knowledge gained.



[b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Hmm... I've been thinking about that too. But here's the thing. Was Yamato keeping the Kyubi in check? If so, then Naruto should be training at 50 times his normal chakra (Some say 100 fold was refering to Kakashi's chakra)?

And another thing, does Naruto have distribute his chakra evenly? Or could he just give a certain amount of chakra to make a normal Kage Bunshin. I really don't know, but this could be the answer to the "big" question here.

The Fourth
August 07, 2006, 02:53 AM
its interesting that Asumas team is going to the temple
maybe we get to know more about Asumas past (some flashback perhaps) and the way the 2 aka members fought

maybe the difference between the intellect of bijuus is because some of them were perhaps humans before they turned into tailed beasts
I think the Shokaku was once a sand priest or something

btw nice job GK :)



there's no SJ next week

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :s

glasskatana
August 07, 2006, 03:00 AM
LoL. You guys are great ;) I'll try to save you guys some agony next time - although, I guess that won't be for some time as there's no SJ next week.

Jaw drops. OMG, I am sooo embarressed. Not only did I not know that, But I asked someone (or one's) to make spoiler threads for 319 and it's not gonna be out for another week 1/2. :sweat I feel stupid. PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!!!

I think the kyuubi is a one of a kind. Not only does he seem intelligent, but...well, he can talk. It may be that the bijuu only gain this ability of ...talking when they are trapped within the consciousness of a jinchuuriki. Perhaps what is actually happening is that Naruto is sub-consciously translating the kyuubi. He definitely didn't seem like the talkative type in the flashback scenes when he's destroying Konoha.


***



[b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Hmm... I've been thinking about that too. But here's the thing. Was Yamato keeping the Kyubi in check? If so, then Naruto should be training at 50 times his normal chakra (Some say 100 fold was refering to Kakashi's chakra)?

And another thing, does Naruto have distribute his chakra evenly? Or could he just give a certain amount of chakra to make a normal Kage Bunshin. I really don't know, but this could be the answer to the "big" question here.

yeah, but even then it's still 20,000,000th his original chakra. The only explanation I can think of is...nothing. There is no explanation I can think of. In the Sandaime fight it was clearly stated that kage bunshin evenly distributes the chakra. So it's not just Naruto. I don't get it.

The Fourth
August 07, 2006, 03:11 AM
He definitely didn't seem like the talkative type in the flashback scenes when he's destroying Konoha.

I dont think he had much to say
and I dont like to chat eighter when destroying a village
happens often :)

yeste
August 07, 2006, 03:17 AM
LoL. You guys are great ;) I'll try to save you guys some agony next time - although, I guess that won't be for some time as there's no SJ next week.


:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :darn :darn :darn :darn :darn :notrust :notrust :notrust :notrust :mad :blink :eyeroll
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Really??????????????
Damn it, maybe I’ll do some fanfic/parody/fanart to amuse some of you guys!!!




LoL, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Sorry again for the long wait ;)



I don’t mind at all!!! You’re doing a great work with this comments… And I know just how life can get in the way of doing what you want! Especially in the mid twenties!

Luckily, I’ve managed to amuse myself by posting in various topics on various subjects here!!! Soon I’ll be Sr.member!!! ( I read that sir Member so it’s way more fun for me!!! :p )




and I dont like to chat eighter when destroying a village
happens often :)

:tem :smile-big :tem :smile-big :tem :) :smile-big :smile-big :smile-big

ibra87
August 07, 2006, 03:42 AM
At last, 318's comments XD. I woke up today to find your comments and the weekly One Piece fix available, which made my day, hurray. Anyway, it's great to have you back.

Since the others here have covered most my thoughts, this is going to be quick, so no worry :p:



This brings to us another question, however. How is it that, in the past, Naruto was able to utilize the Kage Bunshin before in actual battle without suffering this setback?

It's probably been said before, but in battle, if you have noticed, all the kage bunshins are usually defeated in a split second. However here in training, he's been using his mind and body for hours. It makes me wonder if physical damage also accumulates together with the experience, if so, then it must have been tough for Naruto.



Awww... just look at all these Narutos throwing their leaves up in the air. You'd think they had just graduated from the Academy all over again, they're so happy.

Guess both Naruto and Tobi will have victory cigars tonight...!
Could have been longer :crying :tem



This also explains how one person, albeit a powerful being, such as Yondaime would have been able to capture and defeat the Kyuubi, the most powerful youma in the Naruto world. If the Nine Tails is supposed to be the most powerful embodiment of chakra in the world, then if it actually knew how to manipulate its own energies to create all sorts of jutsus, then I doubt that Yondaime would have been able to even get close to the Nine-Tails, even given his knack for speed.
I have always thought of the Kyuubi as pretty clever. He seems to know a lot of things i.e. who sealed him, what a hokage is, Uchicha Madara and probably a lot of ancient stuff. So I don't think that was the case. Even if it's one hell of a clever beast, what could it have done if Yondi-boy had teleported on it's back and made that jutsu in a split second (he was probably faster than Itachi at doing this)? Nothing. He did sacrifice himself, after all.



(Of course, we DO have talking Boss Toads and monkeys that can transform into staffs in this series, but whatever.)
And snake boss which demands a 100 human bodies-sacrifice each time he's summoned. Makes me wonder where Oro gets them all from.



It's not over yet...! Guess this means that everybody who voted 2-3 chapters in the 316 Comments Poll will probably fail. This also includes yours truly... if that's any consolation. ;)

yay, I told you it was going to be more than 6 chapters ^^

Well that's all. I look forward to your next comments, so keep em coming.

keitachan
August 07, 2006, 03:46 AM
Jaw drops. OMG, I am sooo embarressed. Not only did I not know that, But I asked someone (or one's) to make spoiler threads for 319 and it's not gonna be out for another week 1/2. :sweat I feel stupid. PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!!!

I think the kyuubi is a one of a kind. Not only does he seem intelligent, but...well, he can talk. It may be that the bijuu only gain this ability of ...talking when they are trapped within the consciousness of a jinchuuriki. Perhaps what is actually happening is that Naruto is sub-consciously translating the kyuubi. He definitely didn't seem like the talkative type in the flashback scenes when he's destroying Konoha.


***
yeah, but even then it's still 20,000,000th his original chakra. The only explanation I can think of is...nothing. There is no explanation I can think of. In the Sandaime fight it was clearly stated that kage bunshin evenly distributes the chakra. So it's not just Naruto. I don't get it.


Yamato is helping Naruto to keep using only his )Naruto's) chakra and not Kyubbi's. They are afraid that the more Naruto accesses Kyubbi's chakra the more Kyubbi will bleed over into Naruto's.
Naruto's regular chakra is higher than a regular ninja's because his regular chakra was boosted because he is melded with Kyubbi. In addition there is the red chakra which is only Kyubbi's. Think of it this way - baby Naruto had chakra A, Naruto/Kyubbi has chakra B and Kyubbi has chakra C. Chakra A died when he was sealed with Kyubbi. When Naruto is normal he is chakra B which is at least twice the norm hence his stamina and hyperactivity. When he uses uop his chakra he gets some from Kyubbi so up to 3 tails he is B with some C. And when he is 4 tails he is totally using Kyubbi's chakra and at that point Kyubbi starts takung over.

glasskatana
August 07, 2006, 03:56 AM
I'm sorry to say this but you did not help explain it at all. I already knew about all that. And some people blieve that Yamato is helping control the kyuubi's chakra and let Naruto access it which is why at first I said one billionth and the 20,000,000th. It still has yet to be explained how Naruto is functioning with such LOW Chakra levels.

I actually made a longish post about how the kyuubi chakra works many months ago. It has most likely been lost but...yeah. In the end, it still doesn't make sense.

P.S. WELCOME TO MANGAHELPERS!!!! :smile-big I see that was your first post. Welcome to the community. You picked a great board to post in.

Dragonzair
August 07, 2006, 05:21 AM
ROFL @ your Tobi comment. XD

And yay! You weren't the only one glad to see Izumo and Kotetsu. I've been a somewhat fan of theirs after their short stint on the Chuunin Exam.

Seeing Ibiki's other examiners would be cool too, especially that guy who has his face all covered up. But I'd really like to see more of Ibiki himself too.

Heck, bring on Anko as well, Kishi!

Psst. Deidei's face scares the crap offa me, more than Yamato's scary eye does. XD

Luckas
August 07, 2006, 05:29 AM
If I remember correctly it was Jiraja that described Kyubi as a natural disaster, maybe talking to Naruto.

From reading the manga, I think the Bijū are being of enormous destructive power, that were transformed in Jinchūriki during the ninja wars to became weapons.
Kyūbi is the most destructive, when he attacked the Leaf Village the only way to stop him was to seal it away at the cost of the life of the Fourth Hokage. I think it is probable that if Naruto dies the Kyubi wil dies with him, but after a certain amount of time the Kyubi will be back; in this way I think it is preserved the terrible power of the Kyubi and the fact that Kyubi shouuld die together with Naruto.
The most of what I wrote is in the manga, they are logical assumptions. I hope so :eyeroll

These are my thoughts about Bijū, Jinchūriki and Kyūbi.

Regarding Kage Bunshin and the way it works; I am very curious so I read a lot here and in NF, but I think there are a lot of contradictions in the manga itself. For example it was never clearly explained why it is a forbidden jutsu: regardin this there are 2 theories:
1 - Because it was too dangerous, with this jutsu it is possible to create an army;
2 - Because the jutsu require so much chakra that is dangerous fot the user;

Another thing, it is clearly said many times in the manga that Kage Bunshin divides the chakra equally among the clones and not even Neji could distinguish Naruto from clones; but early in the manga Ebisu explain Naruto that to perform a jutsu the user uses a portion of his stamina to mold the necessary chakra. So if this is correct even if the clones and Naruto have the same amount of chakra, the real Naruto should have clearly more stamina. Moreover I think it wasn't ever explained if this jutsu need a cost to activate apart of the chakra that is divided between clones and need also chakra for his sustentation. These are the unanswered questions tha pops in my mind about Kage Bunshins.

About the way in which Yamato is helping Naruto, I think is possible that when Yamato did a jutsu to stop the fourth tails Naruto he suppressed almost completely Kyūbi chakra (don't take my words literally english isn't my mother tongue), this could explain becuase after, in the Orochimaru's lair, Naruto was almost completely out of chakra and Kyūbi appeared only when Naruto lost the necklace. So, maybe, the pillar that Yamato is using now during Naruto training could be a mean to soft tuning his jutsu and not only to allow a prolonged use.

PS: English isn't my mother tongue, so for me it is difficult to write a lot; I hope my writing is comprehensible/intelligible.

Tanuki-dono
August 07, 2006, 04:14 PM
Oooh, with pictures to boot. You know, GK, that just makes it allt the more fun! ^_~

Anyway, I've been totally loving Tobi and the death glares of Deidara. I was saying to Meaghan the other day that I wish Naruto would be captured by those two, for the entertainment, of course, because I would love to see Tobi and Naruto interact. Perhaps the parallel you mentioned in their actions made me link them together in my mind? Come one, can't you imagine a staring contest with Tobi and the swirly face of his? XP

As for mental fatigue of Naruto, I'm inclined to think that it was a combination of the things you listed; plus, when he worked with groups before on the battlefield, didn't he often tell them what to do rather than use them for information gathering individually? Hmm. Oh, and to touch on the last bit, while I'm excessively worried for Asuma due to the ridiculous amount of foreshadowing, I'm overjoyed to see Izumo and Kotetsu as well. It's heartening to know that Kishimoto decided to rely on existing characters this time rather than creating new ones. It's...well...nice.

ibra87
August 07, 2006, 05:03 PM
Even though it seems as if you've deserted this thread, I'll still comment for those who didnt :'( (long live the GK 10 comment thread)


Haha. I did neglect to notice the Deidara-Kakashi parallel, although I did think that it was funky that Kakashi actually thought "yeah... all due to my great idea," but decided not to comment. I guess it's mainly because my mind refused to associate Kakashi with Deidara that I failed to notice that, but you're right. Maybe Kakashi and Deidara also had similar backgrounds but followed different paths. Hmm..
Well it's not his first time bragging. He did it in the first chapter after his gaiden, remember? When he's trying to tell Naruto and Sakura about how he is young and having recently developed a new jutsu.

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 05:24 PM
its interesting that Asumas team is going to the temple
maybe we get to know more about Asumas past (some flashback perhaps) and the way the 2 aka members fought


Oh, good observation there. Yeah, if I had taken more time to think about the fact that they were going to the temple, I would have said the same thing. You're more than likely right - no doubt we're supposed to get some glimpses into Asuma's past due to the temple being their destination. Though I would have guessed from his words here that he personally knew Chiriku and that would have been enough to generate some flashbacks in itself...



I think the kyuubi is a one of a kind. Not only does he seem intelligent, but...well, he can talk. It may be that the bijuu only gain this ability of ...talking when they are trapped within the consciousness of a jinchuuriki. Perhaps what is actually happening is that Naruto is sub-consciously translating the kyuubi. He definitely didn't seem like the talkative type in the flashback scenes when he's destroying Konoha.

I like the idea of a jinchuuriki personally translating the "mind-speak" of a bijuu, but the Kyuubi isn't the only one that can "talk" to its host - the Shukaku could0, as well, when Gaara was dying in the Akatsuki's lair (it seemed almost as if they had merged mentally somehow, then became separated again). We've also seen the Shukaku laugh when it "freed" itself from Gaara's consciousness and cry out in anguish when Gaara woke up again, though, so we know other bijuu can speak.



yeah, but even then it's still 20,000,000th his original chakra. The only explanation I can think of is...nothing. There is no explanation I can think of. In the Sandaime fight it was clearly stated that kage bunshin evenly distributes the chakra. So it's not just Naruto. I don't get it.


Where in the Sandaime fight? Besides which, I think there was something also said, by Orochimaru, about how pathetic Sandaime had become because he had gotten so old that he could no longer afford to spare the chakra necessary to make additional Bunshins in order to better protect himself.

Anyway, this whole discussion about Bunshins is becoming a little frustrating, isn't it? That'd definitely be a subject I would want an interviewer to get Kishimoto to elaborate on a little bit more.



I dont think he had much to say
and I dont like to chat eighter when destroying a village
happens often :)


Yeah, plus, talking while eating is bad manners, anyway! XD



:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :darn :darn :darn :darn :darn :notrust :notrust :notrust :notrust :mad :blink :eyeroll
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Really??????????????
Damn it, maybe I’ll do some fanfic/parody/fanart to amuse some of you guys!!!


Go for it!



It's probably been said before, but in battle, if you have noticed, all the kage bunshins are usually defeated in a split second. However here in training, he's been using his mind and body for hours. It makes me wonder if physical damage also accumulates together with the experience, if so, then it must have been tough for Naruto.

Yeah, others have commented on that as well - and I've become convinced by that being the case, too. Even if Naruto was subconsciously absorbing all the brief experiences of his defeated bunshins in these battles, it happened so quickly that it would not have amounted to the combined months of training and self-learning that Naruto's bunshins went through in this chapter.


Could have been longer :crying :tem

Probably, hehe. That was also the point where I lost my next few comments due to the computer blackout. But for the second time around, I decided not to be too long-winded, since really, I said all I really wanted there :amuse

Also, I just wanted to showcase the panel where the Naruto's were celebrating, because it also helped to support my "Tobi/Naruto parallels" comment later on.


I have always thought of the Kyuubi as pretty clever. He seems to know a lot of things i.e. who sealed him, what a hokage is, Uchicha Madara and probably a lot of ancient stuff. So I don't think that was the case. Even if it's one hell of a clever beast, what could it have done if Yondi-boy had teleported on it's back and made that jutsu in a split second (he was probably faster than Itachi at doing this)? Nothing. He did sacrifice himself, after all.

Genjutsu would have confused Yondaime, if the Kyuubi had known how to conjure up any illusions. That's really more or less what I was thinking - if the Kyuubi HAD known as many jutsus as, say, Sandaime, I have a feeling Yondaime would have needed far more help, than if he had just been dealing with a berserk, bloodthristy demon fox.

I do think in the deep recesses of the Kyuubi's mind, he's intelligent, but kinda like Naruto, he usually doesn't stop and think too much when he sees an enemy - he just rushes into battle headfirst.


And snake boss which demands a 100 human bodies-sacrifice each time he's summoned. Makes me wonder where Oro gets them all from.

Well, we kind of got a glimpse at Orochimaru's experimental chambers - and also because of Kabuto's interest in acquiring bodies of all ages - I'm guessing they have a mutual interest in going out and capturing villagespeople all over.

Which is another reason I was so surprised to see Orochimaru's lair in the last storyline being so empty. Not only devoid of servants, it also didn't have any slaves. The only explanation I can think of that is that they quickly set up camp there just for the purpose of their encounter with Sasori, and they were planning on leaving shortly afterwards.


yay, I told you it was going to be more than 6 chapters ^^


Nice work ^^



Yamato is helping Naruto to keep using only his )Naruto's) chakra and not Kyubbi's. They are afraid that the more Naruto accesses Kyubbi's chakra the more Kyubbi will bleed over into Naruto's.

You believe that the Kyuubi could take over Naruto's consciousness if Naruto was to depend on more than just his natural chakra, eh?

Well, if we're to believe that Naruto has to expend a little chakra just to get the Kage Bunshin started, and then distribute the chakra evenly among all his bunshins - and that chakra returns to the original body after it's all said and done - then Naruto would still have that chakra intact for the next round, I guess.


Naruto's regular chakra is higher than a regular ninja's because his regular chakra was boosted because he is melded with Kyubbi

Actually, I think Naruto has a high natural chakra (Kakashi said at least two times as much as his own) due to his mysterious and unconfirmed connection to the Fourth.

Thanks for posting!



I'm sorry to say this but you did not help explain it at all. I already knew about all that. And some people blieve that Yamato is helping control the kyuubi's chakra and let Naruto access it which is why at first I said one billionth and the 20,000,000th. It still has yet to be explained how Naruto is functioning with such LOW Chakra levels.


That's assuming he IS operating at low chakra levels. =/



ROFL @ your Tobi comment. XD

And yay! You weren't the only one glad to see Izumo and Kotetsu. I've been a somewhat fan of theirs after their short stint on the Chuunin Exam.

Seeing Ibiki's other examiners would be cool too, especially that guy who has his face all covered up. But I'd really like to see more of Ibiki himself too.

Heck, bring on Anko as well, Kishi!

Hopefully Kishimoto will listen to you again! :D


Psst. Deidei's face scares the crap offa me, more than Yamato's scary eye does. XD

That's because Yamato is a good guy XD Or did you mean Kakuzu? But yeah, I'd be more scared of Deidara either way, 'cause he sure backs up his "death stares." All Kakuzu could do in response to Hidan is just sigh and say that Hidan was going to kill him someday.



These are my thoughts about Bijū, Jinchūriki and Kyūbi.

Regarding Kage Bunshin and the way it works; I am very curious so I read a lot here and in NF, but I think there are a lot of contradictions in the manga itself. For example it was never clearly explained why it is a forbidden jutsu: regardin this there are 2 theories:
1 - Because it was too dangerous, with this jutsu it is possible to create an army;
2 - Because the jutsu require so much chakra that is dangerous fot the user;

Good job summarizing that puppy up, but either reason would have been sufficient to make it a forbidden jutsu, I think - or maybe even both reasons combined.


Another thing, it is clearly said many times in the manga that Kage Bunshin divides the chakra equally among the clones and not even Neji could distinguish Naruto from clones; but early in the manga Ebisu explain Naruto that to perform a jutsu the user uses a portion of his stamina to mold the necessary chakra. So if this is correct even if the clones and Naruto have the same amount of chakra, the real Naruto should have clearly more stamina. Moreover I think it wasn't ever explained if this jutsu need a cost to activate apart of the chakra that is divided between clones and need also chakra for his sustentation. These are the unanswered questions tha pops in my mind about Kage Bunshins.

Yeah, that's been a point of discussion for a while now in my Comments threads. I think I'm about ready to settle on the theory that he DOES have to expend chakra in order to jump-start the technique, and then afterwards the remainder of his chakra splits among the bunshins, and then returns to the original body once the jutsu is dispelled, just like the memories of what they all did.


About the way in which Yamato is helping Naruto, I think is possible that when Yamato did a jutsu to stop the fourth tails Naruto he suppressed almost completely Kyūbi chakra (don't take my words literally english isn't my mother tongue), this could explain becuase after, in the Orochimaru's lair, Naruto was almost completely out of chakra and Kyūbi appeared only when Naruto lost the necklace. So, maybe, the pillar that Yamato is using now during Naruto training could be a mean to soft tuning his jutsu and not only to allow a prolonged use.

I see what you're saying, but with what you said, I have to wonder when exactly Naruto used his own chakra against Orochimaru. Seemed like he was depending totally on the Kyuubi's chakra in that whole battle, so when it was suppressed, at the very least Naruto should have had his own chakra back. So maybe he did - after all, we saw him conjure two bunshins to run around the caves to help out with the searching for Sasuke. It's his stamina that was so low, due to the physical stress his body went through when it transformed to the Four-Tails.


PS: English isn't my mother tongue, so for me it is difficult to write a lot; I hope my writing is comprehensible/intelligible.


You wrote a fine post :thumbs



Oooh, with pictures to boot. You know, GK, that just makes it allt the more fun! ^_~

I think it helps too, I'll probably keep it up. :) It's fun to kind of make panels stand out on their own too.


Anyway, I've been totally loving Tobi and the death glares of Deidara. I was saying to Meaghan the other day that I wish Naruto would be captured by those two, for the entertainment, of course, because I would love to see Tobi and Naruto interact. Perhaps the parallel you mentioned in their actions made me link them together in my mind?

Or is it that everybody theorizes about Tobi being Obito, and Obito was so like Naruto despite being an Uchiha? XD


Come one, can't you imagine a staring contest with Tobi and the swirly face of his? XP

Mesmerizing :s


As for mental fatigue of Naruto, I'm inclined to think that it was a combination of the things you listed; plus, when he worked with groups before on the battlefield, didn't he often tell them what to do rather than use them for information gathering individually?

I think before making his Bunshins, Naruto thinks his strategy through, and then when the clones appear, they all regain that memory and carry it out. So yeah, I guess you're right - they're more concentrating on the strategy that first formed in the original's mind rather than make decisions of their own.


Hmm. Oh, and to touch on the last bit, while I'm excessively worried for Asuma due to the ridiculous amount of foreshadowing, I'm overjoyed to see Izumo and Kotetsu as well. It's heartening to know that Kishimoto decided to rely on existing characters this time rather than creating new ones. It's...well...nice.


I'm beginning to think Asuma will be OK - all this foreshadowing just makes me feel like Kishimoto is doing it on purpose to scare the readers. Even Chiyo-baasma and Sandaime combined didn't get THIS much foreshadowing. And Hayate's death was a complete surprise.

Agreed 100% on Kishimoto bringing back old characters being a good thing. We've already gotten more than our share of new characters in this second part of the series, it's time to return back to familiar faces.[br]Posted on: August 07, 2006, 05:22:21 PM_________________________________________________

Even though it seems as if you've deserted this thread, I'll still comment for those who didnt :'( (long live the GK 10 comment thread)

Oh, I deserted the thread, did I? XD


Well it's not his first time bragging. He did it in the first chapter after his gaiden, remember? When he's trying to tell Naruto and Sakura about how he is young and having recently developed a new jutsu.


Good point, he did at that. Kakashi used to be a lot different when he was little, and you can't completely change who you are sometmies. So it shouldn't really be too much of a surprise that Kakashi keeps having these thoughts that seem so contrary to who he is now.

Luckas
August 07, 2006, 06:25 PM
Hmm. Oh, and to touch on the last bit, while I'm excessively worried for Asuma due to the ridiculous amount of foreshadowing, I'm overjoyed to see Izumo and Kotetsu as well. It's heartening to know that Kishimoto decided to rely on existing characters this time rather than creating new ones. It's...well...nice.

I also think Asuma is a good character, maybe Kishimoto will kill Izumo and Kotetsu and let Asuma and Shikamaru survive. Sincerely, if not all eighty ninjas of the platoons or a big part of them confront Hidan and Kazuku at same time I don't think Konoha ninjas will have many possibilties to survive.


Where in the Sandaime fight?
About Sandaime fight with Orochimaru and Kage Bunshin I think that an Anbu, outside of the barrier, commented shocked when Sandaime used Kage Bunshin, to create two clones just before the "Death God jutsu", because he thought that could have be a waste of chakra. And, but about this I'm not 100% sure, saying how Kage Bunshin divide equally the chakra between clones and the jutsu performer.

venicia777
August 07, 2006, 08:20 PM
wow!! GoldKnight 318 is here. i am glad i came in here today. i had been scouring this section for 318's comments since thursday. i thought you were still moving so i stopped.

Insightful as always. Most important, i am quite glad you actually find the time to do this.

the part that caught my attention, and which i was expecting to discuss here, was of course one concerning why sanbi was seemingly so easily captured. Obviously it seemed a bit odd that it happened since most of us had been going on the idea that a bijuu in its natural form is much more stronger than a jinchuuriki using its bijuu's powers. A pretty logical explanation- and the points others have given are really good too.

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 09:55 PM
About Sandaime fight with Orochimaru and Kage Bunshin I think that an Anbu, outside of the barrier, commented shocked when Sandaime used Kage Bunshin, to create two clones just before the "Death God jutsu", because he thought that could have be a waste of chakra. And, but about this I'm not 100% sure, saying how Kage Bunshin divide equally the chakra between clones and the jutsu performer.

Ah, this page... the Anbu pondering the disadvantages of the Kage Bunshin for Sandaime... (http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3566/naruto12014qh8.jpg)

Maybe it means that when a bunshin is forcibly dispelled through other means, as in being defeated by its opponent, the chakra doesn't return to the original body? And say, I wonder if that applies to the memories as well... hmm.



the part that caught my attention, and which i was expecting to discuss here, was of course one concerning why sanbi was seemingly so easily captured. Obviously it seemed a bit odd that it happened since most of us had been going on the idea that a bijuu in its natural form is much more stronger than a jinchuuriki using its bijuu's powers. A pretty logical explanation- and the points others have given are really good too.


Thanks for reading :)

Reaver Reload
August 07, 2006, 10:57 PM
Once again, love the comments, I always have enjoyed reading these <3
I have a few thoughts of my own, and they are based mostly on comments you and Glasskatana wrote.



Also we see that the end difference between the Akatsuki and Konoha ninja is very little. They think alike (as illustrated in that convo) except for one idea. Teamwork. Like I said before, Kakashi does not let his precious ones die and he always cares for them. (see pic above). Akatsuki members seem to have lost, or never had, that idea of friendship, companionship, or teamwork. I predict this to be the ultimate reason for their demise.


I have always considered Itachi and Kisame to be the team with the best teamwork. They are docile, cooperate nicely with each other, and worry about each other's wellbeing. (Case in point; Kisame worried about Itachi using the MS so much. And Itachi warning Kisame about Gai.)
Now, this may seem a bit odd, but compare them to the antics of Deidara & Sasori, Deidara & Tobi, Hidan & Kakuzu, etc. Zetsu & Tobi seemed to get along quite nicely however, but I don't know why an Akatsuki member was fraternising with a non-Akatsuki member in such a close fashion... Raises a few questions, don't you agree?

Anyway, the point is that Itachi and Kisame have never really displayed any disputes like the rest of the Akatsuki. They worked together and knew exactly where they stood. Hidan and Kakuzu seemed to display a little bit of teamwork in their attack methods on Chiriku and his temple, but in the Nibi fight, they seemed to fight individually, Hidan hiding behind a rock while Kakuzu was under Nibi's paw. And you all know the story with Deidara and Tobi. Itachi & Kisame displayed teamwork against Jiraiya most of all, and Team Gai / Team Kakashi interference while they were both controlling their clones. And most importantly of all, there hasn't been a bit of lip or sass between the two, unlike everybody else in Akatsuki.



Now, how does one exactly sever a waterfall with wind...?

Using the power of my imagination, here's the two possibilities I came up with: 1) Naruto will have to learn how to control an excess of wind to the point where he's able to successfully blow away a large mass of the waterfall away as it's falling, and 2) the objective will actually be splitting the cliffside behind the waterfall into two separate landmarks, which would technically count as "severing" the waterfall into two.

Either way, looks like some serious windpower Naruto will be harnessing here in a while...!

I believe Naruto has to harness his wind power in such a way that he creates a large cutting blade that travels directly up the waterfall, splitting it in two as it travels down the cliff. It will definitely be interesting to see how he plans to do THIS training method on one waterfall with all those bunshins... ?



7. Not Such a Beast, After All? Or maybe to be more precise, the bijuus are even more animal-like than we suspected. Think about what Deidara said here. He basically referred to the tailed beasts as "dumb animals" that hardly comprehended how to best utilize their powerful energies in order to create intricate and specific jutsus. Basically, they depend on brute power and their breath for the most part, which would be good enough to flatten any unsuspecting villages in their path of destruction. I actually like this revelation, considering that if it was otherwise, we'd have ninja Godzillas and King Kongs, which is just ridiculous, right? (Of course, we DO have talking Boss Toads and monkeys that can transform into staffs in this series, but whatever.)

My theory is that the Three-Tails is actually just an animal host in the same essence of Gaara, but with an animal used as the container. Chiyo sealed the Shukaku into Gaara without sacrificing herself. It explains the intelligence comments from Deidara and explains why it has all this power, but not the intelligence to use it on the level of a human container, eg Gaara, Naruto, Yugito.

And I forgot to mention, Zarosaki 318 will be coming to you on Thursday <3

jabbament
August 07, 2006, 11:12 PM
Maybe it means that when a bunshin is forcibly dispelled through other means, as in being defeated by its opponent, the chakra doesn't return to the original body? And say, I wonder if that applies to the memories as well... hmm.
Hah, allow me to quote myself from page 1 just to spite that comment, Paladin:


3) We do not know that when he's fighting, when a clone is "killed" (i.e. it goes "poof" and disappears), if its memory is reabsorbed into Naruto himself. During this training, there are 1,000 clones all training/learning...when he releases, then he feels the full effect of the 1,000. If during a battle, he makes 1,000 clones, 500 die and only 100 survived that did any fighting, then he might just get the knowledge from the 100.

Kakashi has told Naruto to "release the jutsu" (releasing a jutsu is different than having a clone die), and concentrate. My guess is that you cannot gain experience/knowledge from something that died and disappeared.

Anyway, if Asuma dies, Kishimoto will pay dearly. http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/frown.jpg

The Fourth
August 07, 2006, 11:40 PM
Maybe it means that when a bunshin is forcibly dispelled through other means, as in being defeated by its opponent, the chakra doesn't return to the original body? And say, I wonder if that applies to the memories as well... hmm.


or maybe the anbu member meant that if you have a low level of chakra,then if you divide that,you cant use the strongest justus so effectively (for example,no MK for Kakashi if he does KB in my opinion)and if you do use a jutsu like that,you gotto do it while maintainig kage bunshin and thats a tough thing while fighting a sannin and 2 kages :)

Gold Knight
August 07, 2006, 11:50 PM
Once again, love the comments, I always have enjoyed reading these <3
I have a few thoughts of my own, and they are based mostly on comments you and Glasskatana wrote.

I have always considered Itachi and Kisame to be the team with the best teamwork. They are docile, cooperate nicely with each other, and worry about each other's wellbeing. (Case in point; Kisame worried about Itachi using the MS so much. And Itachi warning Kisame about Gai.)
Now, this may seem a bit odd, but compare them to the antics of Deidara & Sasori, Deidara & Tobi, Hidan & Kakuzu, etc. Zetsu & Tobi seemed to get along quite nicely however, but I don't know why an Akatsuki member was fraternising with a non-Akatsuki member in such a close fashion... Raises a few questions, don't you agree?

I'm curious about Zetsu's history with Tobi myself... but if you think about it, Sasori had his own underlings that sacrificed themselves for the Akatsuki's cause, but they had to be also present at the cave in order for the Leader to perform his jutsu on them, wouldn't they? So perhaps each Akatsuki has underlings tagging along at some points...


Anyway, the point is that Itachi and Kisame have never really displayed any disputes like the rest of the Akatsuki. They worked together and knew exactly where they stood. Hidan and Kakuzu seemed to display a little bit of teamwork in their attack methods on Chiriku and his temple, but in the Nibi fight, they seemed to fight individually, Hidan hiding behind a rock while Kakuzu was under Nibi's paw. And you all know the story with Deidara and Tobi. Itachi & Kisame displayed teamwork against Jiraiya most of all, and Team Gai / Team Kakashi interference while they were both controlling their clones. And most importantly of all, there hasn't been a bit of lip or sass between the two, unlike everybody else in Akatsuki.

Or is it just that unlike every other team, Kisame is too scared of Itachi to even want to defy him? Every time Kisame has wanted to go all-out, Itachi's told him to stop and back off, and he doesn't argue at all. Is Kisame really a partner, or more of a follower? Sometimes I get the sense that Itachi feels he'd be better off working alone, as well...


I believe Naruto has to harness his wind power in such a way that he creates a large cutting blade that travels directly up the waterfall, splitting it in two as it travels down the cliff. It will definitely be interesting to see how he plans to do THIS training method on one waterfall with all those bunshins... ?

Making for a lot of wet Narutos...!


My theory is that the Three-Tails is actually just an animal host in the same essence of Gaara, but with an animal used as the container. Chiyo sealed the Shukaku into Gaara without sacrificing herself. It explains the intelligence comments from Deidara and explains why it has all this power, but not the intelligence to use it on the level of a human container, eg Gaara, Naruto, Yugito.

Interesting thought there. Although Deidara seems to have already said that it's a "wild" bijuu...?


And I forgot to mention, Zarosaki 318 will be coming to you on Thursday <3


Excellent! Will be looking forward to it, especially after seeing your preview. :)



Hah, allow me to quote myself from page 1 just to spite that comment, Paladin:

Fine, you beat me to that observation, nice job XD


Anyway, if Asuma dies, Kishimoto will pay dearly. http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/frown.jpg


At the very least, he'll have made an enemy out of a certain adorable girl from the UAE. http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/frown.jpg



or maybe the anbu member meant that if you have a low level of chakra,then if you divide that,you cant use the strongest justus so effectively (for example,no MK for Kakashi if he does KB in my opinion)and if you do use a jutsu like that,you gotto do it while maintainig kage bunshin and thats a tough thing while fighting a sannin and 2 kages :)


That would be a reasonable way to interpret that, yes. In an all-out Hokage war, I suppose that would be a concern.

The Fourth
August 08, 2006, 12:07 AM
I always thought that Jiraiya has a spy in aka
not among the members (although I thought it was Tobi,im not so sure now) but among the underlings of the members

I mean,he didnt know much about them
I think he knew about as much as an underling could
its hard on spy on them otherways,I mean their body are not present when they meet,and they didn meet for years before

so what I wanted to ask is do you think Tobi could be such a good boy that he is actually an ally and spy of the toad sannin?
or is this random tought completely stupid? :)
(I have a habit of inventing stupid theories :D)

Gold Knight
August 08, 2006, 12:10 AM
That would be kick-ass if Tobi was actually Jiraiya's spy. I'd love it.

glasskatana
August 08, 2006, 12:15 AM
Ah, this page... the Anbu pondering the disadvantages of the Kage Bunshin for Sandaime... (http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3566/naruto12014qh8.jpg)

Maybe it means that when a bunshin is forcibly dispelled through other means, as in being defeated by its opponent, the chakra doesn't return to the original body? And say, I wonder if that applies to the memories as well... hmm.

Thanks for reading :)

Ah yes. Just as I was thinking that perhaps if the jutsu is released (I don't know if it would be the same if it were destroyed or not) that some chakra is returned along with the memories. To me, that's the only way it makes sense. Also, I feel that a high-level ninjutsu battle should be waged again. That fight between Sandaime and Oro gave us a look into some really elite stuff. The problem is that it appears that the Akatsuki are too specialized in their talents and skills to do stuff like that. :sigh.

if Asuma finds out that the only reason that Kakuzu killed Chiruku was for money, he is going to be one pissed off jounin. Kakuzu should have been using that money to pay for Chouji's meals. I want to see some Asuma-shikamaru teamwork.

Gold Knight
August 08, 2006, 12:32 AM
if Asuma finds out that the only reason that Kakuzu killed Chiruku was for money, he is going to be one pissed off jounin. Kakuzu should have been using that money to pay for Chouji's meals. I want to see some Asuma-shikamaru teamwork.


I have a feeling we'll be seeing that happen soon enough. Would be funny if Hidan was blathering on again while Asuma and Shikamaru stood there, and Hidan's not even realizing he's trapped in the Kagemane jutsu, and Asuma walks up to him and knocks him out. Simple as that XD

jabbament
August 08, 2006, 12:39 AM
Fine, you beat me to that observation, nice job XD

At the very least, he'll have made an enemy out of a certain adorable girl from the UAE. http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/frown.jpg

Glad you admit it, Paladin.

And yes...and for that, I will make him pay dearly, after I'm done crying after that certain adorable girl has clawed my eyes out, out of rage/fury/anger/revenge for Asuma. :s

I'll find a way to wreak my blind havoc on Kishimoto.


I have a feeling we'll be seeing that happen soon enough. Would be funny if Hidan was blathering on again while Asuma and Shikamaru stood there, and Hidan's not even realizing he's trapped in the Kagemane jutsu, and Asuma walks up to him and knocks him out. Simple as that XD
I'm thinkin' Asuma and co. are going to catch up to Hidan and Kakuzu first. My bet is that when Asuma gets to the fire temple, he'll notice the lack of Chiruku's corpse, and at very least know where they're headed based on the fact they took his body with them. (I don't imagine there are many places where 2 S-Ranked Criminals could cash in on a corpse....)

It'd be very nice to see though, I wonder if Shikamaru can sneak up on someone at Hidan and Kakuzu's level. If he could, then it could probably be over before it started, though that would be horribly anti-climactic...

yeste
August 08, 2006, 04:08 AM
I always thought that Jiraiya has a spy in aka
not among the members (although I thought it was Tobi,im not so sure now) but among the underlings of the members

I mean,he didnt know much about them
I think he knew about as much as an underling could
its hard on spy on them otherways,I mean their body are not present when they meet,and they didn meet for years before

so what I wanted to ask is do you think Tobi could be such a good boy that he is actually an ally and spy of the toad sannin?
or is this random tought completely stupid? :)
(I have a habit of inventing stupid theories :D)


There’s nothing wrong with your theory!!! It is a possibility, and like all other theories, we’ll just have to wait for this one to prove itself!!! But we might wait for another year,or so, considering how things are going right now!!!

It’s great to see you post here, dude!!!




I have a feeling we'll be seeing that happen soon enough. Would be funny if Hidan was blathering on again while Asuma and Shikamaru stood there, and Hidan's not even realizing he's trapped in the Kagemane jutsu, and Asuma walks up to him and knocks him out. Simple as that XD



Now, that would be a punch to the face!!! Man, I swear I’m putting that on my sig, as soon as Kishimoto draws it ( or if he doesn’t, maybe I will!!!!! Knocked the f down!!! )

Now, seriously, blathering was proven to be quite unwise so far in the series, even in front of Naruto!!! And doing this in front of Shika and Asuma and other junins will get you killed! But seems this guys just have to do it, so I’m guessing some very funny development in that discussion between them??? GK, you are one of the few people that agree with me that they could get captured, highly unlikely, but they could…






This is probably very out of place but hear me out… Zetsu can’t fight!!!! He’s just a cleaning man/connection man!!!

Wait, I’m not making this up…get that WTF look away from you face…Now, I’ve been going trough the end of the part one – the Naruto/Sasuke battle and then it accrued to me: He was there all along, trough the whole battle watching, right? Now, he was in a position to take care of both of them. Right at the end of the fight, a few minutes before Kakashi showed up ( actually Zetsu was introduced a few pages after Kakashi showed up, right at the end of that chapter, but still that doesn’t change the fact that he was there all trough the fight ) Zetsu could have captured passed out Naruto ( we know by then that Akatsuki wanted him!!! ) and/or captured/killed injured Sasuke ( because he knew that this one is going straight to Orochimaru, and this was later proven to be the obstacle for Akatsuki… )

Even if he knew that help was coming, somehow I don’t see any other Aka member missing out on an opportunity like that… So Zetsu can’t fight?????????????

Again, I’m sorry if this is out of place post, just say the word and I wont post stuff like this here…But what you guy’s think… Has some sense in it, ha??????

Gold Knight
August 08, 2006, 04:47 AM
This is probably very out of place but hear me out… Zetsu can’t fight!!!! He’s just a cleaning man/connection man!!!

O RLY... lol, you just made me picture Zetsu as a modern janitor...


Wait, I’m not making this up…get that WTF look away from you face…Now, I’ve been going trough the end of the part one – the Naruto/Sasuke battle and then it accrued to me: He was there all along, trough the whole battle watching, right? Now, he was in a position to take care of both of them. Right at the end of the fight, a few minutes before Kakashi showed up ( actually Zetsu was introduced a few pages after Kakashi showed up, right at the end of that chapter, but still that doesn’t change the fact that he was there all trough the fight ) Zetsu could have captured passed out Naruto ( we know by then that Akatsuki wanted him!!! ) and/or captured/killed injured Sasuke ( because he knew that this one is going straight to Orochimaru, and this was later proven to be the obstacle for Akatsuki… )

He could just be a scout, but somehow I doubt that he can't fight. Being a member of the Akatsuki means that he's likely confident in his abilities in case of a situation where things might go wrong between him the others, as it did with Orochimaru.

And I don't know about you, but if I saw a kid being able to do a uber-Rasengan and the other doing a uber-Chidori, I'd keep out of it, too XD

Hermie
August 08, 2006, 04:48 AM
O RLY... lol, you just made me picture Zetsu as a modern janitor...
"Damn kids, I just cleaned over there! *grumble*"

yeste
August 08, 2006, 05:24 AM
He,he,he!!! It was just a thought, but now I’m afraid of the Zetsu fans…

There is something weird about him, even for a Aka member! If he can fight ( I will probably remain in a state of doubt for a while ) he’s probably a monster – all power no justs ( Damn this blind typing…I cant spell….Aghhh…..) jutsu kind… But I could be overthinking this!!! :p

Since the janitor ( even a modern one :p ) analogy is probably a bit of, I’m promoting him to a Akatsuki PR main man!!!! That’s a perfect role for him. Dealing with the bad press after a Hidan/Kakazu situation in a jewel store involving overpriced ring cleaning bill… :p


[color=navy]
Zetsu – Akatsuki PR !


( OK, I’ll shut up for a while… :p )

ibra87
August 08, 2006, 05:46 AM
I have a feeling we'll be seeing that happen soon enough. Would be funny if Hidan was blathering on again while Asuma and Shikamaru stood there, and Hidan's not even realizing he's trapped in the Kagemane jutsu, and Asuma walks up to him and knocks him out. Simple as that XD

You want Shikamaru to die? :darn

Gold Knight
August 08, 2006, 06:19 AM
Bah, Shikamaru would release the jutsu at the last second before Asuma bitch-slaps Hidan XD

The Fourth
August 08, 2006, 09:12 AM
Im not sure Zetsu knew Naruto was the kyuubis jin

I remember aka members asking Itachi how Naruto looks

maybe there is where he lives,under the earth
that looks like a nice place for a meat eating ,S-ranked plant that has personality disorders :)

ibra87
August 08, 2006, 09:39 AM
Im not sure Zetsu knew Naruto was the kyuubis jin

I remember aka members asking Itachi how Naruto looks

maybe there is where he lives,under the earth
that looks like a nice place for a meat eating ,S-ranked plant that has personality disorders :)

He saw the fight between Sasuki-san and Naruto-kun in the Valley of the End, ya know. I think he knows about NarutoXkyubi thing.

The Fourth
August 08, 2006, 09:50 AM
oh yeah,right ,forgot about that

but you cant be sure that if someone looks feral or odd its a jin
I mean he looks like a plant kisame looks like a shark
he could have thought that its a jutsu

but of course he probably had other reasons not to take naruto
Im just protecting my precious/and idiotic :D/ theory :)

Adam_xx
August 09, 2006, 06:56 AM
Tobi owns all.

ibra87
August 09, 2006, 07:06 AM
Tobi owns all.

Damn right on this, Paul. Un... Yeah, hmm.

Tomorrow a new naruto chapter and possibly 10 comments :tem

Gold Knight
August 09, 2006, 09:53 PM
^ Actually according to Bleach and D.Gray Man fans, it's likely we won't be getting a Shonen Jump this week, because both manga had an expanded chapter (double release) last week which typically means that there isn't a SJ coming up for two weeks. Of course, we may still get the RAWs based on how they leak out sooner on the internet than when they're published in Japan.

But in case we have a week to go, I'm thinking about doing a special 10 comments review on one of the older, complete volumes.

glasskatana
August 09, 2006, 10:00 PM
^ Actually according to Bleach and D.Gray Man fans, it's likely we won't be getting a Shonen Jump this week, because both manga had an expanded chapter (double release) last week which typically means that there isn't a SJ coming up for two weeks. Of course, we may still get the RAWs based on how they leak out sooner on the internet than when they're published in Japan.

But in case we have a week to go, I'm thinking about doing a special 10 comments review on one of the older, complete volumes.

hmmm, you started doing these at chapter 280-something on NF right? (I never visited again once I found Mangahelpers) And chapter 300 here. It would be awesome if you did 10 comments on the volumes prior to your chapter reviews. I would read them. :D

If not maybe I'll do them. Though I think people have come to expect 10 comments from you, and I'm afraid if I made some 10 comments all I'd get for feedback would be "what are you trying to be Gold Knight" and "leave the reviewing to the pros" and "you're not as good as GK". And instead of chapter covers you could comment on the volume covers. (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=5218.0) :D

Gold Knight
August 09, 2006, 10:09 PM
I don't want to have a monopoly on Naruto reviews or anything. In fact it's best to get reviews from more than just one voice, so go ahead and do your own reviews if you like, glasskatana. I wouldn't mind. In fact, I encourage it.

As for the volume review, it probably won't be done in typical Ten Comments fashion at all. You'll see soon enough I suppose :) That is, if a chapter doesn't come out tomorrow.

glasskatana
August 09, 2006, 10:16 PM
I don't want to have a monopoly on Naruto reviews or anything. In fact it's best to get reviews from more than just one voice, so go ahead and do your own reviews if you like, glasskatana. I wouldn't mind. In fact, I encourage it.

As for the volume review, it probably won't be done in typical Ten Comments fashion at all. You'll see soon enough I suppose :) That is, if a chapter doesn't come out tomorrow.



hmmmm, if I do them I'll probably do them on volumes. So I hope you don't mind If I claim that area. What to call them. Glasskatana's Volume Review? The Dusty Volume Collection? I have no idea. I don't know if I want to start on Volume 1. I might start on the most recent volume (that I have a cover for) and most likely comment on
1.) the volume cover
2.) comment per chapter.

It all works out since there are about 8-10 chapters a volume. Just need an idea for the name.

Gold Knight
August 09, 2006, 10:41 PM
I don't mind if you do volume reviews, but I was planning on doing one myself. There's no need to have a "claim" on any one area though. The more reviewers, the better.

As for the name, doesn't have to be fancy XD

glasskatana
August 09, 2006, 10:44 PM
I don't mind if you do volume reviews, but I was planning on doing one myself. There's no need to have a "claim" on any one area though. The more reviewers, the better.

As for the name, doesn't have to be fancy XD

Indeed, maybe I'll even steal some ideas from yours get inspired by yours. :p
I think I'm going to do volume 34. I just finished re-reading it. I'll be looking forward to your review GK.

ChuckinUpDueces
August 09, 2006, 11:19 PM
I wouldn't mind doing reviews and starting a real solid look at Naruto as it's progressed in Manga form. I've recently gone back to the begining of the series, and there are a lot of parallels from the begining to explore as the story unfolds. I find it to be like an evolving RPG story because of the growth that happens with all the characters.[br]Posted on: August 09, 2006, 11:14:24 PM_________________________________________________This chapter is a real nice place to jump off into something fantastic while remembering what's happened up untill this point. I can't wait to see the next chapter, and i'm equal awaiting a next 10 Comments from you GK, I hope there's a new one soon.

Gold Knight
August 09, 2006, 11:37 PM
I wouldn't mind doing reviews and starting a real solid look at Naruto as it's progressed in Manga form. I've recently gone back to the begining of the series, and there are a lot of parallels from the begining to explore as the story unfolds. I find it to be like an evolving RPG story because of the growth that happens with all the characters.

Pretty good analogy, I'd agree. And go for it, I know I'd read it.


This chapter is a real nice place to jump off into something fantastic while remembering what's happened up untill this point. I can't wait to see the next chapter, and i'm equal awaiting a next 10 Comments from you GK, I hope there's a new one soon.


^^

yeste
August 10, 2006, 04:43 AM
Now I hope the chapter doesn’t come out tomorrow!!!

But don’t quote me on this… someone ( *cough* the forth *cough*) will probably kill me for this !!!!!!!

ibra87
August 10, 2006, 04:49 AM
That's great GK. I was starting to be afraid there wasn't anything to watch/read this week, as there is a Berserk chapter out either (at least no raw yet).

And since the SJ is coming out next week, I doubt we'll get a raw one week before =(

Luckas
August 10, 2006, 08:05 AM
I like your idea GK, I hope you'll carry on. I would like to read your thoughts about events prior chapter 300.

Now it is obvious that Yamato created the waterfall not only to show-off, I really liked the way Kishimoto handled this episode.

Iwanin
August 13, 2006, 10:33 PM
I'm actually skeptical Tobi will turn out to be as dangerous as a Tonberry. Just my two cents. :p