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KaNx
October 10, 2008, 05:09 AM
If you haven't seen the goodies yet, you can check them out in the Spoiler Pics and Summaries (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40840) thread. This is where you can discuss all about them. No spamming allowed.

But remember: NO SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER THREADS. This rule will be strictly enforced. Please respect those that don't want to be spoiled. Thanks.

Tha chapter is out. Get it here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41308).

Dice
October 15, 2008, 06:44 AM
So this chapter is about Stark's fight and he is the number one and Shunsui already releases? That's all I could read out of certain translation. That is if this is no fake and the translation is atleast partially right^^

Andonan
October 15, 2008, 06:48 AM
If that's true then it's the coolest thing ever, but i doubt it, probably fake....

Eye of the tiger
October 15, 2008, 07:32 AM
somebody trans this please!! Stark vs. Kyoraku!! yaaaay!! Kubo's the man!

hajialibaig
October 15, 2008, 07:38 AM
So this chapter is about Stark's fight and he is the number one and Shunsui already releases? That's all I could read out of certain translation. That is if this is no fake and the translation is atleast partially right^^

If that's true, then this will be a WICKED chapter! I hope the spoilers are true!

genkizen
October 15, 2008, 07:48 AM
We need translator! ASAP!!!

times like this I wish I knew japanese...=/

I was almost certain kubo would switch to the ichigo fight...but stark fighting is welcome as well

Eye of the tiger
October 15, 2008, 08:14 AM
anyone see the new spoiler? dissappointing if all this chapter has is more vc/fraccion blah-blah..

hajialibaig
October 15, 2008, 08:16 AM
anyone see the new spoiler? dissappointing if all this chapter has is more vc/fraccion blah-blah..

There is more about Halibel and Stark/Shunsui in the first and 3rd Japanese spoilers.. I'll wait for a proper translations before jumping to conclusions, but that's just me :D

Eye of the tiger
October 15, 2008, 08:23 AM
There is more about Halibel and Stark/Shunsui in the first and 3rd Japanese spoilers.. I'll wait for a proper translations before jumping to conclusions, but that's just me :D

Wish the espada spoilers are the real ones. They do look more apt following up from last week. Wonder when they'll cut to Ichigo?

hajialibaig
October 15, 2008, 08:31 AM
Wish the espada spoilers are the real ones. They do look more apt following up from last week. Wonder when they'll cut to Ichigo?

Yea.. the Espada spoilers sound fake, why would Stark fight before Ulquiorra.. doesn't make sense..

I think this is how Kubo will do it:

1-Finish off all the fraccion fights first in fake KK
2-Finish off all the friends vs. hollows fights in HM
3-Show Ulquiorra vs Ichigo
4-Show more fraccions fights in fake KK (if any are left)
5-Finally show Espada fights....

Starky-08
October 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
Is that Soifons Bankai?

Revan46
October 15, 2008, 08:42 AM
Is that Soifons Bankai?

I'm not quite sure. I think we need to see a pic soon, see if it's just the stinger on her arm, or something else....

Poor Apache, she never stood a chance against Haineko though. Also is Stark really number 1? I mean it makes me happy if he is, but do we have confirmation? No....though I'll admit often the Espada have revealed their numbers towards the beginning of their major battle. (Szayel vs Renji, Byakuya vs Zommari, Nnoitra vs Kenpachi). I guess we'll have to wait for pic spoilers.

Starky-08
October 15, 2008, 08:52 AM
Hmm but would it be right to reveal the 1st before 2nd and 3rd? I was hoping they would reveal number 2 first, then 3 then 1.

Edit: I checked, it's only Shikai.

gold349
October 15, 2008, 10:10 AM
ukitake can not get defeated by lilinette?, that can't be true. It seems so far with Matasomato...her zan ability is what is helping her win, I hope that isn't the pattern I want to see real fights some thought put behind it.

Megaman84
October 15, 2008, 10:22 AM
Sketchy spoilers this week. ^ I'd be dissapointed if Ukitake lost to a Fraccion. Hmmmmm. Might have to wait till some piccies come out before i pass judgement!

Cyanilurus
October 15, 2008, 10:55 AM
Yes, let' s pray that doesn' t happen with Ukitake...

However, someone being killed off, especially Omaeda, I wouldn' t mind. :p

ryanzokuken
October 15, 2008, 11:18 AM
o_O who knows what to make of these spoilers so far...

i guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Aonsaithya
October 15, 2008, 12:25 PM
I'm very skeptical regarding any espada ranks revealed in spoilers these times. Some disappointed Noitora fans faked spoilers to make him appear as the 2th, as well as even photoshop a spoiler pic to suggest that (flipped the 5 so it looked a bit like 2).
Same may very well apply for the top 3.

sBizzy
October 15, 2008, 12:27 PM
Yes, let' s pray that doesn' t happen with Ukitake...

However, someone being killed off, especially Omaeda, I wouldn' t mind. :p

I agree omaeda is terrible Rangiku is fighting 3 and he cant even take on one poor Soi Fon having to deal with that >.>.

Revan46
October 15, 2008, 12:34 PM
I'm sick of Oomaeda. Was it just cuz he was in a high class family that got him into Lieutenant? I don't understand that.

Also, I'm sure ukitake doesn't get owned, but I'm surprised we have no pics yet.

Er0
October 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
Omaeda gets pwned... Not surprising but you know what they say: "Fat Shinigami are harder to bury!"

Morlun
October 15, 2008, 01:18 PM
No, Oomaeda isn't getting owned, he just seems like he's getting owned. Next chapter he releases his shikai, makes an inspiring speech about courage and cowardice, food, and picking your nose, and then kills the fraccion.

Raizen
October 15, 2008, 01:35 PM
OK, where did u guys read that ukitake is losing. If he really is losing to a fraccion, WTFFFFFFF? He is one of the strongest captains.

Also, I do hope soifon's VC dies, he annoys me and is just no good at all. And soifon, come one finish that bitch off and then attack.

Matsumoto explaining her shikai and beating 3 fraccions. Hell she is crazy strong

Onomatopoeia
October 15, 2008, 01:36 PM
These spoilers seem really fake to me. I hate Omaeda but I don't think he would get killed by Soi Fon. And then theirs the Ukitake Bullshit which I'm not even willing to consider(unless Lilinette does turn out to be the Primero Espada in which case I totally called it)

The only one that seems at all believable is the Retort with Rangiku and the 3 Fraccions.

Eye of the tiger
October 15, 2008, 01:39 PM
These spoilers seem really fake to me. I hate Omaeda but I don't think he would get killed by Soi Fon. And then theirs the Ukitake Bullshit which I'm not even willing to consider(unless Lilinette does turn out to be the Primero Espada in which case I totally called it)

The only one that seems at all believable is the Retort with Rangiku and the 3 Fraccions.

You're right .. the ukitake thing is shit.. unless uki's faking it or something.. but I like the rangiku fight..

Starky-08
October 15, 2008, 01:45 PM
I highly doubht Uki would lose to a fraccion, Im guessing the only spoiler thats real is the Matsumoto one.

nokozon
October 15, 2008, 02:22 PM
I don't know if Ukitake is quite as powerful as he is made out to be. His illness seems to interfere at undesirable times, such as when he fought possessed Kaien.

Sometimes I wonder about that. Why is he supposed to be sick? It seems rather arbitrary to me. Maybe it comes and goes? I guess we haven't been reminded of it in a long time.

kweci
October 15, 2008, 03:10 PM
I think what happened is just that ukitake put lillinet in a water prison of some sort, and she broke out of it, and had a victorious look on her face... atleast that is what i understood from babelfishing the spoiler, lol...that is not unreasonable; he was probably taking it real easy on her seeing as she is a prepubescent girl (who is a hollow with such an abnormal thirst for others' souls that she became an adjuca)

genkizen
October 15, 2008, 03:28 PM
It's possible Ukitatke's tuberculosis... i mean mysterious disease started kicking up and he's coughing blood again. That would explain him getting pwned. I still think that one is fake though

wooticus
October 15, 2008, 04:20 PM
don't know whether to believe it or not..


After that Halibel draws out her sword.

<< this makes me wonder... halibel has already crossed swords with hitsugaya in the last panel of the last chapter.. does it means she relase? cause it would be quite stupid to draw out her sword AGAIN, especially while she is already fighting with it^^


edit: well if the spoiler is true, then i'm sure lilinett had just a look on her face because she though she bet ukitake but only did him make start to fight.

i think there is absolutely no reason to worry, with or withou illness, ukikate competed against yama (together with shunsui) and survived his fury. there is absoulety, and i mean it as i say it, absolutely no way that he gets one hitted by a fraccion who didn't even release.^^

Revan46
October 15, 2008, 06:26 PM
don't know whether to believe it or not..



<< this makes me wonder... halibel has already crossed swords with hitsugaya in the last panel of the last chapter.. does it means she relase? cause it would be quite stupid to draw out her sword AGAIN, especially while she is already fighting with it^^


edit: well if the spoiler is true, then i'm sure lilinett had just a look on her face because she though she bet ukitake but only did him make start to fight.

i think there is absolutely no reason to worry, with or withou illness, ukikate competed against yama (together with shunsui) and survived his fury. there is absoulety, and i mean it as i say it, absolutely no way that he gets one hitted by a fraccion who didn't even release.^^

There's no way Halibel released already. She's the top 3 Espada, unless she wants to just get it over with, she wouldn't release. I think it's mistaken.

shinjinjou
October 15, 2008, 07:42 PM
Omaeda will go super saiyan or pull out a hollow mask or activate sharingan or actually win by luck and get all cocky and pwned in a speech by Soi Fon.
Ukitake has TB or whatever...since he has all the time in the world, why not discover a cure for it? Probably win him a Shinigami Nobel Prize or something?
Lillinet probably goes all Nel and her release makes her a hot fraccion...
So Matsumoto's shikai is pretty much godly considering she'll send the stuff up the fraccions' noses and stuff.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
Uh oh, bleach spoilers have usually been honest so far, hoepfully it isnt starting to be like naruto spoilers...95% fake.

I think the spoiler with ukitake losing is utter crap, not gonna go any further on that

Matsu's may actually be able to fight all three fraccion, i just realized how good her shikai is for fighting multiple enemies (like byakuya). however, this will prolly frustrate the fraccions into releasing, in which case, matsu will need help or bankai (lol, gorilla and milk cow).

hopefully soi finishes her fraccion next chapter and omaeda duz zumthin, at least woundhis enemy. And for sum odd reason im hopin for omaedas opponent to be big, strong, and yet intelligent. also, how kick ass would a hand to hand fight be between soi and baragan once she finishes her opponent. baragan looks like hes been in a few bar-rrom tussles in his time, and w/ those ridiculous biceps, i wouldnt want him to punch me (biceps arent used for punching but wutever).a good speed vs strength battle. baragan should ultimately win tho.

hitsu vs halibel, i dunno. we know almos everything about how hitsu fights. the only thing hes got goin for him, is the fact we dunno really wut his countdown is for, and halibel jus bores me, and while boobs are great and all, her shirt design is just annoying to me, its not something for a fighter to wear. if she was like aizens concubine, i would like it much better, however she isnt (we think) shes ranges anywhere from the 2nd to 4th most powerful enemy ss is facing right now, so really, c'mon. cover that underboob, and jus show sum real cleavage. anyway, thas prolly much more then what someone should ever talk about on an anime characters boobs. however, one aspect i do like about halibel is her broad sword zanpakto. im hoping she wields it like a barbarian (with skill of course, but with intense ferocity). that way she isnt always a meat popsicle, but shows emotion when in combat. that would make me like the character more.

as for stark, i dont want a shikamaru clone. shikamaru is an awesome character who raises and sets the bar for all lazy manga characters. i wanna see why he is so lazy, i want a reason. shikamaru never needed a reason, and thas what made him awesome and relatable. but if stark was the same way, it would make him a crap imitation. stark seems to not really be one of the group, nor particularly loyal. prolly just to avoid confrontation with aizen, but WHY, kubo needs to deliver some great story telling for this guy, cuz i think he has potential.

what i wanna see in the future is aizen actually winning and killing a lot of peeps in ss and constantly grow in power so he can invade the royal palace (which i assume hell nedd a shitload of power to do so, obviously the king is well gaurded, but im assuming he himself could prolly kick some ass, so yeah), and a small rebellion (think original star wars) forms to fight him and his seemingly unstoppableness. the rebellion consisting of the remaining ss cpts and lts (cuz im hoping for some to die), the vizard, the earth crew (ura, ishin, dad-quincy, TESSAI, etc.) andhopefully some reformed arrancarr (grim, nel, 107, etc.)

apologies for the overly-long post

ryanzokuken
October 15, 2008, 08:35 PM
hopefully soi finishes her fraccion next chapter and omaeda duz zumthin, at least woundhis enemy. And for sum odd reason im hopin for omaedas opponent to be big, strong, and yet intelligent. also, how kick ass would a hand to hand fight be between soi and baragan once she finishes her opponent. baragan looks like hes been in a few bar-rrom tussles in his time, and w/ those ridiculous biceps, i wouldnt want him to punch me (biceps arent used for punching but wutever).a good speed vs strength battle. baragan should ultimately win tho.


nooooo, i hope not! i love Soi Fon, and although we haven't seen a lot of her abilities, what she has shown so far is pretty impressive, and i have faith in her:p

plus ninjas > pirates! :D

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 15, 2008, 08:46 PM
plus ninjas > pirates! :D

hahaha,but i def. have to disagree, pirates so much > then ninja

soi is definetly kick ass, but baragan is a tough old bastard, hes definatly physically stronger, and i think his rietsu is greater then soi's, and he can make up lack of speed with good ol experience. and like an "old fox" (more rurouni ken reference) he'll prolly fight dirty,...like a pirate :p

as for soi's bankai, itd be funny if it simply gains another "finger" that way she can do the two stabs at once, 1HKO, lol

Onomatopoeia
October 15, 2008, 09:27 PM
Pirates and Ninjas debate? Pirates defintely win technologically and Pirates invented the word "Argh!" while Ninja's invented Weeaboo's, Pirates win. Especially if were talking Naruto vs One Piece.

Barragan will do wonders and own Soi Fon. Soi Fon will probablly have to take out her Bankai to pwn Barragans Fraccion what do you think Barragan will do to her afterwards?

ryanzokuken
October 15, 2008, 09:49 PM
he'll release into his hollow form, which will be tentacle-face Davey Jones, or maybe the Kraken itself. :p


pffffft, ninjas would own pirates in a fight.

martial arts + immense athleticism and acrobatic skills + arsenal of tricks and deadly weaponry

vs

artless, formless, barbaric sword usage + one-shot pistols requiring reload after each shot + ....... i think that's it....

:tem

but as for an actual Soi Fon(ninja) vs Barragan (pirate) fight, i guess we can't really tell until we see her bankai and his release.

Devil-buster
October 15, 2008, 09:54 PM
Pirates and Ninjas debate? Pirates defintely win technologically and Pirates invented the word "Argh!" while Ninja's invented Weeaboo's, Pirates win. Especially if were talking Naruto vs One Piece.

Barragan will do wonders and own Soi Fon. Soi Fon will probablly have to take out her Bankai to pwn Barragans Fraccion what do you think Barragan will do to her afterwards?

I think you are seriously underestimating Soifon....She is one of the shinigami who's shikai is actually more deadly than most people's bankai....seriously her incredible speed combined with the special ability of her shikai makes her one of the most dangerous captains.....she fought evenly with yoruichi, u could even say that she even held back a bit considering her feelings for yoruichi.....just imagine if she hadnt explained the ability of her shikai to her opponent, they would have no idea what the butterfly was for....also I am sure that barragan's fraccion is not as fast as yoruichi....so soifon can get those two hits in a matter of seconds and then curtains.........
But I'm not sure how she will fare against barragan...but I can guarantee you she will not bring out her bankai to fight just fraccions.....

Hockeychaoz
October 15, 2008, 11:16 PM
Is that Soi Fon's release, or bankai?
I mean, the last page being Soi Fon's shikai? Kinda boring IMO

eddy26
October 16, 2008, 12:21 AM
The whole Ukitake losing to Lilinette is fake probably some Stark fan that wants him to be espada one by having his fraccion beat a captain. If Soifon's VC is defeated then Soifon is going to have to beat two fraccion. I'm sure it'll look like Matsumoto can take on all three of Halibel's fraccion until they release. Bankai or no bankai Matsumoto is going to need help if she is going to survive. There are a lot of people that can help her out Yama's VC hasn't fought, Iba hasn't fought, Kira and Hisagi could join the fight now that the pillars are being protected by Komamura. She might even get help from Gin but her stopping all three fraccion by herself no way in hell.

Onomatopoeia
October 16, 2008, 12:22 AM
I think you are seriously underestimating Soifon....She is one of the shinigami who's shikai is actually more deadly than most people's bankai....seriously her incredible speed combined with the special ability of her shikai makes her one of the most dangerous captains.....she fought evenly with yoruichi, u could even say that she even held back a bit considering her feelings for yoruichi.....just imagine if she hadnt explained the ability of her shikai to her opponent, they would have no idea what the butterfly was for....also I am sure that barragan's fraccion is not as fast as yoruichi....so soifon can get those two hits in a matter of seconds and then curtains.........
But I'm not sure how she will fare against barragan...but I can guarantee you she will not bring out her bankai to fight just fraccions.....

I could reply to this entire arguement with this one line, " I think you underestimating me, Halibel." :cool:

But... I won't

Instead I'll explain some things. Yes I agree with you Soi Fon's Shikai is deadly, but theirs one serious flaw in it, herself. She could have lied to Yoruichi and made something up about how her Shikai did something really useless. And then BAM! Hit her twice and GG Yoruichi. For the sake of the plot she has to explain her ability(for some strange reason I don't try to understand but it's true)

As for Matsumoto, your underestimating Bankai. And Kira/Hisagi/Iba can't leave the Towers because if any of them do then their are two wide open Towers waiting for someone to screw around with.

Next a lot of people have pulled out their Bankai's to kill Arrancars. Hitsugaya, Kommamaru, Ikkaku(Edorad) etc. I don't see any reason why she won't pull it off in this fight and completely destroy her with it. Besides this lady is stronger then Po if she can fight equally with a captain.

eddy26
October 16, 2008, 01:29 AM
I could reply to this entire arguement with this one line, " I think you underestimating me, Halibel." :cool:

But... I won't

Instead I'll explain some things. Yes I agree with you Soi Fon's Shikai is deadly, but theirs one serious flaw in it, herself. She could have lied to Yoruichi and made something up about how her Shikai did something really useless. And then BAM! Hit her twice and GG Yoruichi. For the sake of the plot she has to explain her ability(for some strange reason I don't try to understand but it's true)

As for Matsumoto, your underestimating Bankai. And Kira/Hisagi/Iba can't leave the Towers because if any of them do then their are two wide open Towers waiting for someone to screw around with.

Next a lot of people have pulled out their Bankai's to kill Arrancars. Hitsugaya, Kommamaru, Ikkaku(Edorad) etc. I don't see any reason why she won't pull it off in this fight and completely destroy her with it. Besides this lady is stronger then Po if she can fight equally with a captain.

Soifon couldn't lie to Yoruichi because Yoruichi already knew about her shikai. The only new information Soifon told Yoruichi is that there isn't a time limit on how long the butterfly symbol lasts. Plus Aizen already knows and it seems he passes on important info to the espada. He told all of the espada how the real town was in Soul Society even Dordonii had info that Ichigo had hollow powers. Yeah Dordonii was a privaron espada but at some point he was an espada. The real flaw to her shikai is if the opponent is quicker than her. Soifon is fast but is she going to be faster than the top three espada we don't know that but maybe her bankai is something that slows down the enemy and makes it easier to stab the opponent twice. I doubt she'll go bankai against her fraccion so if she does go bankai it'll be against Barragan.

Revan46
October 16, 2008, 01:52 AM
Just a little thing to go with what onomatopoeia said, there are three pillars to mess with not two. Only Ikkaku's was destroyed.

patz
October 16, 2008, 02:14 AM
Nobody's wondering where Yamamoto's lieutenant is? I hope Kubo hasn't forgotten him. He only showed up in the first 2 chapters when captains and lieutenant arrived the fake town.

Andonan
October 16, 2008, 02:27 AM
It's strange that the strongest captain has one of the shittest lieutenant's, i mean Yami's VC was beaten by bare handed Ichigo, it's not like he could do much against any Arrancarr, I also hope Omeada is destroyed before he even swings his sword if not, ONCE AGAIN we have Kubo doing some really inconsistent powerlevels

LoS
October 16, 2008, 03:56 AM
"Rangiku's monologue: It's alright.... i have to do it."

Hmmmm I wonder what this could mean, a new release perhaps?

Also I wonder how Braids substitution/illusion ability works.

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 04:27 AM
Now that the translation arrived...

"Kyoraku: Ukitate, my gay buddy! Omg, does this mean no smex?!!"

"Soifon: What?? Omy's hurt? Omg, no more smex?!!"

:p Some parts could be true, but... soooo faaaaake... isn' t it...

Andonan
October 16, 2008, 04:28 AM
I hope that spoiler was a fake, Ukitake is probably my favorite captain, and if he gets one shot my a fraccion (even if Stark is #1) and even if it was just a knock back, it would piss me off............I'll except Stark beating Ukitake NO ONE ELSE!

Revan46
October 16, 2008, 08:59 AM
The spoiler seems way too fake. I mean a few parts are possible but A: Braids is one of Barragon's fraccion not Halibel (she's fighting Hitsugaya). B: The gay buddy thing is totally impossible lol. And C: I could only see Ukitake being "beaten down" if his TB comes into effect during the battle. Can we PLEASE see some pics?! I mean we're not gonna know if anything is true until we get pics....

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 09:37 AM
Now that the translation arrived...

"Kyoraku: Ukitate, my gay buddy! Omg, does this mean no smex?!!"

"Soifon: What?? Omy's hurt? Omg, no more smex?!!"

:p Some parts could be true, but... soooo faaaaake... isn' t it...

That part definitely is fake, but the rest could still be true.. the flavors were added by the spoiler person... not very tasteful though, or creative!

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
That part definitely is fake, but the rest could still be true.. the flavors were added by the spoiler person... not very tasteful though, or creative!

Yes, that' s what' s irritating me so much... :S And aside the fact that it' s tasteless, it' s rude too.

I' m quite a newbie in terms of this, but why do fakes like these come? Overbored boars?

Can' t wait for tomorrow! Or... Saturday... if it has to. :)

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 10:10 AM
Yes, that' s what' s irritating me so much... :S And aside the fact that it' s tasteless, it' s rude too.

I' m quite a newbie in terms of this, but where do fakes like these come from? Overbored boars?

Can' t wait for tomorrow! Or... Saturday... if it has to. :)

lol.. nice terminology! thing is, even if its a fake, it still gets tons of hits and gets posted everywhere and people still talk about it.. so it still satisfies somebody.. and they definitely have wayyy too much time on their hands..

but the premise of it could still be true.. I'd give anything to see action, its been blah-blah ing for too long.. although there's no real release yet..

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 10:22 AM
Even if fans are cursing the heck out of the person who puts up stupid fakes, that person enjoys it? That' s just weird...

Gahhh, if I had that much time i' d be drawing my own comic. I started it in August, then came September, and only 10 pages are ready... sniff... and I got such nice critique too...

Personally, I enjoy the blah-blah part too, if it has more than "I' ll show you!" "I' ll kill you!" etc. (Ichigo, go have another talk with Zangetsu old man!!!) But I guess with the setup now it has to go action way already, there' s nothing left to talk. :p Action is good if it' s not too awkward like sudden kendo.

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 10:46 AM
Even if fans are cursing the heck out of the person who puts up stupid fakes, that person enjoys it? That' s just weird...

Gahhh, if I had that much time i' d be drawing my own comic. I started it in August, then came September, and only 10 pages are ready... sniff... and I got such nice critique too...

Personally, I enjoy the blah-blah part too, if it has more than "I' ll show you!" "I' ll kill you!" etc. (Ichigo, go have another talk with Zangetsu old man!!!) But I guess with the setup now it has to go action way already, there' s nothing left to talk. :p Action is good if it' s not too awkward like sudden kendo.

You said it! I absolutely loved the blah-blah in the pendulum arc.. but the last 3 chapters have been basically time wasting! No story or even character development.. and I agree, Ichigo really needs a talk with zangetsu/Hichigo if he's gonna pull out another power-up against ulquiorra..

U did get started on your own comic- congratulations!!! I've been trying forever, got a couple of characters down and a story.. or something like a story.. but not even 1 page is drawn... you're way ahead of the curve! lol.. cool!

Btw.. I wonder if Ukitake's really gone down, if its coz of the cero or his health.. I suspect the latter, most captains can stop the cero with their bare hands..

King Mordred
October 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
She won't go for you dude.

Revan46
October 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
Finally a spoiler that seems real. Sounds good, but I was hoping to see a little of Stark and Shunsui....

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 12:14 PM
Stark and Shunsui will probably and hopefully come next chapter.

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 12:28 PM
She won't go for you dude.

Yeah.. thanks for the tip!

Hopefully at least one of the espada's numbers will be shown as well. Was Ukitak'ed double-sword been shown in the manga before?

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 12:34 PM
In chapter 156, both him and Shunsui release. From page 12 to 16 you can get a closer look to them.

nicobarten
October 16, 2008, 01:51 PM
but we don't know their abilities yet.

serventarcher
October 16, 2008, 01:52 PM
"Kyoraku: Ukitate, my gay buddy! Omg, does this mean no smex?!!"
I couldn't help, but laugh XD


So far most of these are fake, but I am hoping that part of the one with Lilinette is true. Right now the only thing we know she can do is beat on Stark so it would be nice to see her in action. While that can be said about the remaining espada and fraccion, right now, I am more curious about her.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 16, 2008, 02:10 PM
She won't go for you dude.

LMAO...

anyways,what will kubo do with omaeda,..while i do want a character to die, so that bleach can be less childish and have a more serious/mature tone, there is no point in omaeda dying, cuz nobody will care...not a single friggin person on this planet will care (if there are omaeda fans, they no longer count as people). people use deaths in a story to drive plot and create emotional drama. omaedas death is absolutely insignificant in terms of plot, and the only emotion it would invoke is humor, at watching fat-rich-boy get killed by the bully looking arrancar...hehehe.

byakuya needs to die, i hate him, we got his story, we heard about his stupid pride and stupid dead wife, and stupid family honor which he broke for his stupid dead wife, now let him die and join said stupid wife. sry for the rant.

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 02:21 PM
In chapter 156, both him and Shunsui release. From page 12 to 16 you can get a closer look to them.

Thanks.

Seems like both Kyoraku's and ukitake's zanpaktous would be melee type, at least for shikai.. 2 swords are better than 1 in close range-multi opponent fights.. would be cool of Kubo shows more stylish fights for Kyoraku vs. Stark rather than 1-hit KO - blah blah types of fights.

Omaeda is an annoying useless character.. he should fittingly be the first one to go on the good side.. and ukitake should also I think, he's been ill for so long.. kubo should just ease his pain and let him die, although in a blaze of glory!
[hr]
Don't know about Byakuya man.. he's got a lotta history with Ichigo, he may be one of ichigo's greatest allies, plus he's got a cool zanpakuto.. wonder if he'll groom Rukia for VC hood or something..

ryanzokuken
October 16, 2008, 03:01 PM
byakuya needs to die, i hate him, we got his story, we heard about his stupid pride and stupid dead wife, and stupid family honor which he broke for his stupid dead wife, now let him die and join said stupid wife. sry for the rant.


harrrssshhh. to insult him, alright, but his dead wife? that's just mean, lol.

plus Byakuya is a character, whom if he died, it would be some cool, badass, epic death, and it would only give him more spotlight and fandom. dying makes cool characters cooler and more popular. depending on HOW they die, that is.
so you'd probably be even more annoyed with him if he were to die. :p


btw, i'm liking the Allelujah avatar, serventarcher! he was the coolest of the meisters!

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 03:25 PM
On your sig Ryan.. GJ won't kill Ulq, Ulq is Ichigo's rag doll for sure.. although I kinda feel Ulq isn't gonna die and might end up non-partisan or even a 4th side to this story (he's just too intelligent a character to be a simple slave of Aizen)..

Instead, I think GJ's got a score to settle with Tousen.. although he'd have to compete with Koma and Hisagi!

BTW, Byakuya dead means he's outta the story, doesn't matter if fanboys still exist.. that still beats him strutting around.. not that i want him dead.

Nafycuk
October 16, 2008, 03:29 PM
Akkordnig to Bleach: Heat the Soul PSP game series, Ukitake's sword is not quite meele, I say ))))))) And Kyoraku's too ))) both of them swing projectiles )) Water tornado in case of Uki and just tornado in case of Shunsui XD
It would be a bad joke if it's the same in manga +_+
And I think Ukitake is not a close-combat type Shinigami, due to his illnes. From the other hand, I guess that Kyouraku is a bloody butcher ))) Having two almost as large as Ichi's shikai yataghan-type swords clearly shows it )))

Hooray for Soi Fon!! I hope she'll kick the shit out of both Barragan's fraccions. Deeply in my heart I also want her to pwn Barragan himself, but oot would never happen. Sob-sob

Hooooray for Rangiku! But she'll defenitly will have a very hard time with that three withces)

And two thumbs up and all my hopes for toushirou )))))

I really dunno what Aizen is thinking. His situation , to my mind is.. ASS ))) His lovely Espada group terribly outnumberd. And not only by the current C&VC, but by all "good guys" there are in Bleach. Entire doom-troopers squad of Vaizards, Isshin, Ryuuken, Urahara&Yoruichi. So, maybe it's the last arc, bad guys are brown-dead, that's all, the end, thank you for reading, good night)))

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 03:34 PM
I really dunno what Aizen is thinking. His situation , to my mind is.. ASS ))) His lovely Espada group terribly outnumberd. And not only by the current C&VC, but by all "good guys" there are in Bleach. Entire doom-troopers squad of Vaizards, Isshin, Ryuuken, Urahara&Yoruichi. So, maybe it's the last arc, bad guys are brown-dead, that's all, the end, thank you for reading, good night)))

Aizen probably doesn't actually need to do anything.. I think this whole fight is a distraction.. he's already set into motion something that is going to transfer him to the King's realm, he does not care of the espada live or die.. there is definitely one more arc left.. especially since we do not know much about Isshin and the kurosaki family lineage and genesis.

ryanzokuken
October 16, 2008, 03:39 PM
On your sig Ryan.. GJ won't kill Ulq, Ulq is Ichigo's rag doll for sure.. although I kinda feel Ulq isn't gonna die and might end up non-partisan or even a 4th side to this story (he's just too intelligent a character to be a simple slave of Aizen)..

Instead, I think GJ's got a score to settle with Tousen.. although he'd have to compete with Koma and Hisagi!

BTW, Byakuya dead means he's outta the story, doesn't matter if fanboys still exist.. that still beats him strutting around.. not that i want him dead.

he'd have to compete with Kensei, as well.
man...Tousen makes himself a lot of bitter enemies.

being dead wouldn't put a character out of the story, at least not for a little while. they would make a big deal out of it, and talk about him a lot, and have funeral type ceremonies and processions, glorifying him.

Cyanilurus
October 16, 2008, 03:40 PM
Ahh yes, but I feel Byakuya's fans might see him a little differently if they find him dead in his bedroom nude with a belt around his neck and a playboy on the ground.

Well... heh. That' s as if a fan took him and got too carried away.

How about him slipping in the kitchen, his head hits a pan, that flips up in the air, hits a bottle of pepper, that covers his nose, and as he stumbles sneezing, he runs into the cook who' s holding a knife...



I really dunno what Aizen is thinking. His situation , to my mind is.. ASS ))) His lovely Espada group terribly outnumberd. And not only by the current C&VC, but by all "good guys" there are in Bleach. Entire doom-troopers squad of Vaizards, Isshin, Ryuuken, Urahara&Yoruichi. So, maybe it's the last arc, bad guys are brown-dead, that's all, the end, thank you for reading, good night)))

He might even be planning the death of his subordinates... his wicked ways don' t contradict this, though his path to victory does.

Referring to a previous post, I also wouldn' t mind Ulquiorra turning out to be more than a slave... for same reasons. Or at least hear his reason for serving him so obediently, other than the gatekeepers' claim that Aizen, as a fearless man, is ultimate to those born from fear. He has more intelligence than that.

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 04:15 PM
BTW.. who does old man yamma fight? everyone's picked and yamma's just standing and watching when Aizen's gonna break out??!.. I am pretty sure yamma's gonna retire or be retired after this fight's over and we'll see Unohana taking over.. O rather I want it that way.. the old coot's been ruling the roost too long, time for him to blaze his way to death..

Onomatopoeia
October 16, 2008, 04:16 PM
Rangiku's Shikai seemed interesting and did a lot of damage, a Tornado of Ash would be very deadly. Especially if Rangiku used a Kidou spell added on... But now I"m sure Rangiku will pull out a Bankai, theirs no way she can beat three Fraccion at once. I also liked the vague hint to Halibel's power...

Anyways about Soi Fon, I don't think Yoruichi remembered Suzumebachi, I mean she seemed pretty shocked by the appearence of that Butterfly, if she knew what it was she would've rolled with it. Or Soi Fon also could have lied and said it took a different effect when she used it forcing Yoruichi to be on her feet, because their might well be two very conflicting problems if Yoruichi was dodging. It would be totally believable and everyone knows it, but she didn't. Even if so Yoruichi still had a hard time remembering it I think.

Next, Suzembachi, how in the world did Soi Fon get 2 hits so fast? She activated it and suddenly the Fraccion is dead? I'm wondering if Soi Fon will kill the Fraccion in time, even the most retarded/useless Arrancar have gotten time to release.

Megaman84
October 16, 2008, 04:21 PM
I could see Yama-Ji popping his clogs fighting Aizen ^ and Unohana taking over. V.Plausible. If he does die though i would like to see him go out in a firey, bankai blaze of glory.

Eye of the tiger
October 16, 2008, 04:22 PM
Rangiku's Shikai seemed interesting and did a lot of damage, a Tornado of Ash would be very deadly. Especially if Rangiku used a Kidou spell added on... But now I"m sure Rangiku will pull out a Bankai, theirs no way she can beat three Fraccion at once. I also liked the vague hint to Halibel's power...

Anyways about Soi Fon, I don't think Yoruichi remembered Suzumebachi, I mean she seemed pretty shocked by the appearence of that Butterfly, if she knew what it was she would've rolled with it. Or Soi Fon also could have lied and said it took a different effect when she used it forcing Yoruichi to be on her feet, because their might well be two very conflicting problems if Yoruichi was dodging. It would be totally believable and everyone knows it, but she didn't. Even if so Yoruichi still had a hard time remembering it I think.

Next, Suzembachi, how in the world did Soi Fon get 2 hits so fast? She activated it and suddenly the Fraccion is dead? I'm wondering if Soi Fon will kill the Fraccion in time, even the most retarded/useless Arrancar have gotten time to release.

Unless she got a suzumebachi upgrade... a 1 hit KO.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 16, 2008, 05:27 PM
Maybe i was a lil mean bout byakuyas wife...sry byakuya's wife, not sry to byakuya...the bastard :mad

anyways, tousen does make a lot of enemies, yet hes prolly the most honorable, or at least has the best intentions in what he does, of the villains, but hes gotta lot of people with personal grudges against him and doesn't have a huge fanbase either, hmmm, i gues there is jus sumthin about tousen people dont like. i would definetly like to see tousen really fight, cuz he is in the same boat the koma is..ahem...was in, where we really dont know what he can do, since you can say he was trying to punish zaraki, and we never really saw him fight. but he did cut through an espada hierro w/o much effort. i hope he fights koma, however, i get the feeling kensai will be the one to fight him.

hopefully in the next chapter we see results to what went on in this chapter, soifon beats baragans two fraccion, and matsu's opponents release, following chapter, matsu releases bankai/ gets help from someone, 3 fraccion are defeated. then hopefully a transition to hm and see what cpts are doin, then exequias fight (here, id like to see sumthin go wrong, like the exequias have supreme battle tactics and utilize there #'s extremely efficiently so they win, and take rukia and co hostage, creating some good ol tension). then that leaves the big fights, stark vs shunsui, soi vs baragan, hitsu vs halibel, and ichi vs ulqi

toslat
October 16, 2008, 06:57 PM
I don't like tousen, prefer Gin. Gin is what a villain should be: looks the part, talks the part, and acts the part (seems he could even back up his talk to an extent). Wonder if Gin will betray Aizen somewhere down the line.

ryanzokuken
October 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
i don't really mind Tousen. i wouldn't say i'm a fan, but he's pretty cool i guess. not as cool as Gin, though.
and Tousen doesn't seem villainous at all, which is an interesting trait about him. he follows Aizen and fights on the side of evil becuase of his sense of justice. funny how that works.

i can't wait to see more of Aizen, Gin, and Tousen.

but as for now, these fights will be entertaining, and i'm glad they're finally here :D

craig
October 16, 2008, 09:26 PM
I don't like tousen, prefer Gin. Gin is what a villain should be: looks the part, talks the part, and acts the part (seems he could even back up his talk to an extent). Wonder if Gin will betray Aizen somewhere down the line.

I think Gin just follows Aizen because he's bored and being around Aizen keeps him constantly entertained. Although those feelings he'd shown towards certain other shinigami may sway him later on.

HikaruYami
October 16, 2008, 10:20 PM
Vortex is a wierd guy, adding such unnecessary things to his trans....

Still, I appreciate the trans itself.

CrimsonANBU
October 16, 2008, 11:28 PM
Personally i think gin is hanging around aizen cuz he would have nothing better to do with his time...plus he gets to kill ppl...i mean what better way to pass the time by following some power hungry(insanely strong even by main character standards)guy who thinks of himself as a god? i think that would just be road trip waiting to happen...

Revan46
October 17, 2008, 12:16 AM
So it was the battle of Halibel and Hitsu at the beginning, and then Soi Fon and Oomaeda vs Barragan's fraccion. Just as the spoilers predicted.

Hollow Kurono
October 17, 2008, 12:24 AM
HAhaha.Matsumoto is hilarious.. :D gorilla bitch,oh plz continue the jokes Matsumoto,god damn that was nice.A cero from a horn :D nice.Well MAtsumoto will beat these three somehow.

And Soi-Fon kicks uber ass,this bitch shes waiting is gonna lose.Even tho she aint that weak,I think shes very strong if she or he whatver is a Baragans fraction and seems she/he is his main fracion,then I wouldnt underrastimate her,but Soi-Fon has this.

Aikidoka
October 17, 2008, 01:32 AM
Great chapter. Kubo made the right choice flashing between battles rather than showing only one battle and leaving us with only speculations as to the other unseen battles.

It appears that Halibel's fraccion can set aside their differences, even if they normally argue a lot. I'm looking forward most to Soi Fon's battle...we haven't yet seen what happens if Soi Fon stabs her opponent twice in the same spot (anime doesn't count), and I have a feeling this won't be Soi Fon's last battle before the end of Bleach. Hoping Soi Fon doesn't release her Bankai.

Shiro-kun
October 17, 2008, 02:03 AM
Great Chapter,

There was a lot of female action in this chapter! lol , Halibel vs Hitsugaya, Matsumoto vs Halibels fraccion, Soi Fon vs Barragans Fraccion (i dont really care about the Oomaeda either..ouch..)

I also hope that Soi Fon doesnt use her Bankai agaisnt a fraccion, she probably isnt going to but i believe it should be saved up for the bigger enemies that are to come ...a little bit later.

Hockeychaoz
October 17, 2008, 02:32 AM
Well, Kubo sure did a good job at killing the anticipation for the next chapter.

Look at the previous chapters before this and their final pages. Always so epic, or a twist, or something that makes you crave the next week. But, Soi Fon's shikai? Just so meh.


As for the rest of the chapter, seeing Haible's sword was neat. Wonder if that hints towards her release. It's also curious that Hitsugaya is even bothering to attack with just a sword, no bankai? Hell, his shikai was not enough to slow the 10th Espada, what hope does he have against 1-3 without bankai?

The whole Matsumoto part was kinda boring IMO. Yes, she explained her release, but we had all pretty much understood it since the first time she released. Really didn't take too much imagination. I just hope she wins in some way that's worthwhile, no bankai.

EvolutionIX
October 17, 2008, 03:41 AM
The whole Matsumoto part was kinda boring IMO. Yes, she explained her release, but we had all pretty much understood it since the first time she released. Really didn't take too much imagination. I just hope she wins in some way that's worthwhile, no bankai.

IMO, I believe Matsumoto can not defeat the 3 fraccions without a power-up. Yes, Hitsugaya didnt seem to mind Matsumoto taking on 3 fracions, so Hitsugaya must know she can release bankai.

What other reason is there for Hitsugaya to look so confident?

Darek Khort
October 17, 2008, 04:28 AM
Okay chapter. Nothing new except Halibel's sword, which is quite interesting. Hollow. :<
Her hilt with the rings was interesting, so was the fact that her sword isn't a katana like most people's; and now the gap in her sword. I wonder if that gap would be filled up with something. Fire?
Or it could be to lighten the sword, since it's probably a cinqueda which was most likely a heavy sword.

Due to the uninteresting last panel of Soi Fon and her shikai, I reckon that she won't easily kill that fraccion by stabbing him/her twice. I'm predicting the next chapter will be either similar to this chapter only introducing Stark's fight progression, or, further progression of the 'three' fights, or it will be a continuation of one of these 'three' (Hitsu vs Halibel, Matsu vs 3, Soi Fon vs Genderless).
I reckon 'Genderless' will release (he/she doesn't have a sword, does he/she? Just like Soi Fon). Break free and then start attacking. I really want to see what Genderless' (forgot his/her name if it was ever revealed) ability is. It's rare to see sword-less fighters (Soi Fon, Yoruichi).

Hockeychaoz
October 17, 2008, 04:33 AM
The perfect match up fights are getting a bit repetitive. Fighting hollow vs The only captain that physically fights.

Like, if she matched up with anyone else, she'd go to kick them and the captain would be like...
"Okay well Im just gonna cut off your leg k?"

chitgoks
October 17, 2008, 05:15 AM
yeah, and the fights are boring. the captain is the perfect match against the hollow's abilities.

plus if it's ichigo fighting, he tells the hollow to stop fighting since the hollow can't fight anymore. but if he was in the same situation he'd tell the hollow he'd never give up... smartass ...

Hollow Kurono
October 17, 2008, 05:34 AM
Great chapter. Kubo made the right choice flashing between battles rather than showing only one battle and leaving us with only speculations as to the other unseen battles.

It appears that Halibel's fraccion can set aside their differences, even if they normally argue a lot. I'm looking forward most to Soi Fon's battle...we haven't yet seen what happens if Soi Fon stabs her opponent twice in the same spot (anime doesn't count), and I have a feeling this won't be Soi Fon's last battle before the end of Bleach. Hoping Soi Fon doesn't release her Bankai.



Wait a minute.You think this arc is gonna be the last?You think killin Aizen and its all over?Oh man plz dont wish for that.



I also hope that Soi Fon doesnt use her Bankai agaisnt a fraccion, she probably isnt going to but i believe it should be saved up for the bigger enemies that are to come ...a little bit later.


She aint gonna use her bankai,thats gonna be very lame of her,but just as I said dont underasstime this arancar which she is fighting,shes the fracion of Baragan,this dude is probably the no.1 espada.But she or he isnt on Yammis level I think.And if not she/he has no chance,but she could put a good nice fight nontheless.

But I will love to see Soi-Fons bankai.

Darek Khort
October 17, 2008, 07:14 AM
The perfect match up fights are getting a bit repetitive. Fighting hollow vs The only captain that physically fights.

Like, if she matched up with anyone else, she'd go to kick them and the captain would be like...
"Okay well Im just gonna cut off your leg k?"

Yea, seriously.
I still can't believe Rukia beat an espada who had, what, 10,000 hollow abilities?
If you think about it, the espada have had some pretty over-the-top abilities, but they always get beat so easily.

For instance Aroniero with his 10,000 hollow abilities; Zommari with his 50 body/limb-controlling eyes (come on, that's a HELL of an ability); Szayel with his homonculi, vodoo dolls and pheonix-like resurrection.
I mean, come on. Their abilities were SO MADLY CRAZILY DO WANT, but they were killed so easily. And except for Szayel, they could have won so easily.
If Aroniero would just stop laughing and actually kill Rukia with something more than just Shiba's abilities (come on, he had another 9,999 abilities he could have used!); if Zommari stopped fooling around and actually controlled Byakuya; it would have been an easy kill and they would have been formidable opponents for the other good guys.

I just hope that if there are, say, VLs coming out that they aren't perfectly matched.
Sure it's nice to always have the right element in, say, an RPG (light vs dark mage/etc); it sometimes gets boring when they are one-shot-KOed so easily. Sometimes you want to see the good guys struggle like they are supposed to, use their brains a bit instead of relying on their zanpakuto's abilities.
I want to see a time when the good guys can't use their abilities, or lost/had stolen something that is important to them in fighting and coming up with something to still survive. (aka like Gantz when Kurono forgot his suit and was therefore defenceless in one mission).
And I want to see some of them die. There's far too many good guys. Far too many.

hajialibaig
October 17, 2008, 08:04 AM
Yea.. Zommari's fight is one of the most ridiculous fights in bleach...In the real world, Zommari would have just controlled Byakuya's head from the very start and won easily....

But that's the real world, where as, here we have the manga driven by what Kubo wants, when, wherever, however....even if it defies all logic (e.g. Hitsugaya somehow beating Halibel, because of a perfect match up; that would be really sad)

kalerab
October 17, 2008, 08:05 AM
O
I reckon 'Genderless' will release (he/she doesn't have a sword, does he/she? Just like Soi Fon).

BOth Soi Fong and Shawlong have swords
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/329/18-19/

Darek Khort
October 17, 2008, 08:10 AM
BOth Soi Fong and Shawlong have swords
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/329/18-19/

Oh bummer.
Always thought Soi Fon was more of a hand-to-hand and was hoping Genderless would be too. Hand-to-hand is fun.
(Shawlong is his/her name? Didn't know that. Thought Shawlong was the claws-guy Hitsu defeated)

kalerab
October 17, 2008, 08:14 AM
Oh bummer.
Always thought Soi Fon was more of a hand-to-hand and was hoping Genderless would be too. Hand-to-hand is fun.
(Shawlong is his/her name? Didn't know that. Thought Shawlong was the claws-guy Hitsu defeated)

I wanted to say Sabertooth, my bad sorry. And it isn´t her name - just nickname.
And I have to agree with you on this - hand-to-hand or sword-to-sword combats are the best one. Sorry but I just don´t like combats with endless explosions and so on.

Megaman84
October 17, 2008, 08:34 AM
The best bit in this chapter was when Soi Fon clouted genderless in the head - Brilliant. I don't think Soi Fon will have it too easy next chapter. I predict some form of complications. As someone said earlier, the chapter ending on her Shikai is a bit 'Meh'

Akagami.Shanks
October 17, 2008, 08:51 AM
Good chapter, what caught my attention is the ring on Halibel's Zanpaktu and her gloves, the look like Tousen's. that might be just a coincidence. Also, I don't think Histugaya is a match for her even if I think he will finally release his true powers. what I mean by that is the full power of his Bankai after those flower looking things get all destroyed.
I also predict some 2 on 1 matches when the vizards arrive. I think the four remaining espadas with the exception of Yammi are true Vaste Lords, so I think their release might be slightly different from the others. they might have a Bankai Like release

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 09:30 AM
I reckon when the Vizards arrive Hitsuyga will hae just been defeated, Stark will be punishing both Ukitake and Shinsui (ie they're still fighting but stark is obviously stronger) and both Barragan and Yami will be out of breath

Nafycuk
October 17, 2008, 10:00 AM
I guess, there would be no ban kai from Soi Fon in this fight with Sabertooth. Only Shunkou thing. But there's no way Soi Fon has any problems with fraccion. No way. Then, Rangiku will have a hard time with that 3 whores, but she'll manage it somehow, I hope. It would be a damn long week =_=

kkck
October 17, 2008, 10:10 AM
I get the feeling we might see matsumoto's bankai next week. She is clearly at a disadvantage. She has already released her sword and those three fractions havent even released theirs.
[hr]
Damn those spoilers for saying kyoraku and ukitake appeared this weak.

hollowdemon
October 17, 2008, 11:10 AM
it's just slightly odd matsumoto taking on those 3 biyatches and using hainekou right away as mentioned earlier.

wouldnt it be surprising if that guy (soifon's VC) ends up completely punishing that fraccion? like lets say a big smoke and then out of nowhere he appears with the fraccion down (hahaha YEAH RIGHT)
i would say hes gonna get punished BADLY and vaizards will apppear and just cut him in one slice and then the appearance of vaizards finally :D

as far as the fights ? .... only halibel vs hitsugaya and stark vs shunsui are the ones im most anticipating about since shunsui got beat in the diamonddust rebellion movie im not sure how strong he would be fighting against stark but having him as one of my favorite characters i really hope he would have the upper hand or showing a good intense fight

Tsukisama
October 17, 2008, 11:40 AM
Somewhat interesting chapter, like most chapters of Bleach, the story progression left me feeling rather blasé, but the artwork was quite nice.

Halibel vs. Hitsugaya was not much, but it was nice to see her unreleased zanpakutou. Plus, it has been a while since I last saw (or maybe paid any attention to) Halibel's uniform in a close-up. Her top looks so ridiculous with it covering up to her eyes yet everything from the bottom of her bosom down revealed. :p

The mechanics of Matsumoto's shikai were revealed. I like pretty much everyone else used to assume that it was just a less powerful version of Byakuya's Senbonzakura with ash instead of "petal" blades. Instead, her shikai is a bit more unique in that it allows her to cut anything covered with her ash. Not a bad ability at all really, I look forward to seeing what else Matsumoto can do.

Like others have said, her exchange with the fraccion was quite humorous. They make a good battle grouping with their catty preoccupation on vanity. :amuse Gorilla bitch! Milk cow! :gigglebunny (By the way, was it just me, or did Mila Rose look really similar to Charlotte Coolhorn? I am not going to be one of those people who assume that characters are related because they look kind of similar, but I would not be surprised if they were related with the looks and the rose theme.) Apache's cero coming from her horn was kind of interesting; it reminded me of something that I can't quite recall though. (Pokemon maybe, or DBZ? Something with a ball of energy being formed right in front of someone's head and then being fired as a beam.)

Omaeda is doing a poor job in his duel, and I am glad Kubo is actually letting him do poorly. I was so fearful that Kubo would somehow make Omaeda pull a move where he looks bad but suddenly cool and on top of things. I have always considered Omaeda a weak, spoiled buffoon, and for Soi Fon to acknowledge this makes me so happy. Given Kubo's track record of good guys always making it out of bad situations alright, I think Omaeda will likely eventually win his fight but hopefully not without taking more of a beating and humiliation.

Soi Fon's battle against Barragan fraccion #5 (I love that this fraccion remains nameless and trivial as he/she/it is) looks to be ending soon, and I would have expected nothing less from Soi Fon. I am hoping that the next chapter begins with Soi Fon demonstrating the two-hit kill of her shikai, which only take about two pages at most, and then the chapter could move on to other battles like Halibel vs. Hitsugaya or Stark vs. Shunsui. When Soi Fon is done with the fraccion, I can't see her just sitting idle. Likely, she would either be forced to save Omaeda (though I hope he is not that pathetic) or going after Barragan next.

Josear XIII
October 17, 2008, 12:15 PM
Nobody's wondering where Yamamoto's lieutenant is? I hope Kubo hasn't forgotten him. He only showed up in the first 2 chapters when captains and lieutenant arrived the fake town.

i kinda talked about him in the 329 discussion, so no worries we kinda care about his whereabouts


"Rangiku's monologue: It's alright.... i have to do it."

Hmmmm I wonder what this could mean, a new release perhaps?.


IMO, I believe Matsumoto can not defeat the 3 fraccions without a power-up. Yes, Hitsugaya didnt seem to mind Matsumoto taking on 3 fracions, so Hitsugaya must know she can release bankai.

What other reason is there for Hitsugaya to look so confident?

Why all of you think that matsumoto will release bankai, tsk damn only because of a Hitsugaya comment, tsk Gin is there for god sake, she reacted a lot to his presence they even show a past where gin is feeding her as a kid XD so, why all comes down to bankai?, Bankai freaks! XD


HAhaha.Matsumoto is hilarious.. :D gorilla bitch,oh plz continue the jokes Matsumoto,god damn that was nice.A cero from a horn :D nice.Well MAtsumoto will beat these three somehow.

And Soi-Fon kicks uber ass,this bitch shes waiting is gonna lose.Even tho she aint that weak,I think shes very strong if she or he whatver is a Baragans fraction and seems she/he is his main fracion,then I wouldnt underrastimate her,but Soi-Fon has this.

I don't think she will beat them that easy, or at least i think she shouldn't but we'll see.


it's just slightly odd matsumoto taking on those 3 biyatches and using hainekou right away as mentioned earlier.

wouldnt it be surprising if that guy (soifon's VC) ends up completely punishing that fraccion? like lets say a big smoke and then out of nowhere he appears with the fraccion down (hahaha YEAH RIGHT)
i would say hes gonna get punished BADLY and vaizards will apppear and just cut him in one slice and then the appearance of vaizards finally :D

as far as the fights ? .... only halibel vs hitsugaya and stark vs shunsui are the ones im most anticipating about since shunsui got beat in the diamonddust rebellion movie im not sure how strong he would be fighting against stark but having him as one of my favorite characters i really hope he would have the upper hand or showing a good intense fight

Totally agree


Well as for my own thoughts, as a lot of you have said, i liked a lot halibel's sword really cool, and her style as always, flawless, then in Matsumoto's regard i find really funny that i havent though of this possibility, since i stated in the other thread that matsumoto would not be able to handle those 3 fraccions since she would not be able to handle three fighters at the same time at high speed rhythm(Goku Style) i was pretty sure it would turn like that but it's a shame for me that i didnt noticed that the only way for Rangiku to beat them was if them were a group of MORONS!!!, Damn i expected kinda more of those 3 since they looked with a lot of confidence in their way, not ichigo like, that pisses of with every word, now i open my mind to that possibility, it would be really possible for her to beat them, totally a failure of a fight if it is by that way.

While soifon, i liked her part, pretty quick and clean, paralyze the opponent and take him out without sweating, its still hasnt finished, so my predictions are these:

Soifon Stings the first time kindly, showing great confidence, and explaining to his victim what is going to happen, or she does it while she begin to approach, then our fraccion sence the danger and since he is in contact with his zanpakutoh he (YEAH I THINK HE IS A MALE, kinda for the upper part of his outfit, kinda showing to much chest to be a flat chest girl, dont you think? and yes i thought for his face that he was a SHE) gets bumped up and scared and say something like "That second strike is never gonna happen!!" or "That thing would not even touch me once!" and Goes to resurreccion mode, and tries a lot to fight soifon but she quickly dispatch him stinging him twice and ending with a sadistic catchphrase.

llmcduff
October 17, 2008, 12:31 PM
Why do most people bash Hitsu so bad. He has an elemental bankai, just like the old man. Furthermore, it's said it's the strongest ice bankai. Granted, he's a kid. But he's supposedly a genius kid.

If the logic is since Ichigo can't carry Uquil's (sp) shoes and he's #4 and Halibel is #3 or higher thus Hitsu has no chance, then come on, Kubo is not very good at being consistent concerning power level. Also, we don't know how Hitsu is compare to Ichigo anyway. If it's just hating the kid, then come on too, he hasn't done anything to warrant it except maybe being a little too serious for a kid. But who wouldn't be if you are a kid and have all the responsibility of a captain.

What I really want to see is an epic battle between Hitsu and Gin. Both were precocious when it comes to power. However, maybe it's just b/c of circumstances (captain of hitsu squad died early? or Gin doesn't want to stop being Aizen's VC?), but Hitsu became captain at a much earlier age.

kkck
October 17, 2008, 12:34 PM
How long has it been since orihime was captured? It cant be more than a day or two right?

llmcduff
October 17, 2008, 12:35 PM
How long has it been since orihime was captured? It cant be more than a day or two right?
Only time will tell.

hollowdemon
October 17, 2008, 12:38 PM
i would say thats a possibility of soifons battle ending with the fraccion but i have an uber inkling that after soifon hits the first suzubemachi once and the fraccion releases the resureccion and shows an insignificant moves, soifon appears to have the upper hand barragan will show up which wont be a saving moment but when he appears he'll kill the fraccion himself then starts with soifon. Thats my thoughts on the outcome or continuity of her battles.

so far the battles that have been shown are half-battles and switches to different battles... im hoping theres a reason for doing so since i cant stand to keep being anticipated on whats going on with each battles !!! but ... then again its good in order to have the vaizards entrance :D

Josear XIII
October 17, 2008, 12:54 PM
Why are most people bash Hitsu so bad. He has an elemental bankai, just like the old man. Furthermore, it's said it's the strongest ice bankai. Granted, he's a kid. But he's supposedly a genius kid.

If the logic is since Ichigo can't carry Uquil's (sp) shoes and he's #4 and Halibel is #3 or higher thus Hitsu has no chance, then come on, Kubo is not very good at being consistent concerning power level. Also, we don't know how Hitsu is compare to Ichigo anyway. If it's just hating the kid, then come on too, he hasn't done anything to warrant it except maybe being a little too serious for a kid. But who wouldn't be if you are a kid and have all the responsibility of a captain.

What I really want to see is an epic battle between Hitsu and Gin. Both were precocious when it comes to power. However, maybe it's just b/c of circumstances (captain of hitsu squad died early? or Gin doesn't want to stop being Aizen's VC?), Hitsu became captain at a much earlier age.

Dude, first to be clear in some points:

1) Hitsugaya is not supposed to be a genius, HE IS A GENIUS! since he is supposedly the reincarnation of a legendary being that is born every X years and is extremely talented while its life goes on till its death.

2) Hitsugaya's zanpakutoh is the strongest of all water-ice element zanpakutō in Soul Society, is not just his bankai, so this has nothing to do with if its elemental or not, being elemental doesnt make it powerful and that is stated that is the most powerful among its own element never means that is equal in power to other elements.

Ex. Measured in numbers let say hitsu's sword has a power of 190,000 so its means other ice zanpakutoh are below this number, but Old yama's zanpakutoh can have a power of 500,000 and is a huge gap, but have never said in this example that hitsu's sword was weak among the elemental ice swords, hope you get it.

3) I think you know that the sleeves in a haori shows some seniority over other captains, so if you see a captain with a haori sleeveless he or she is a Junior captain (YES!!!, BYAKUYA IS A JUNIOR CAPTAIN! so are gin and tousen) so the ones with sleeves are Senior captains, and i dont think you think, Hitsu can beat Byakuya, or put up a fight with Soifon not even talk about gin, did you saw the Pendulum arc dont you? So we are talking about a Junior who is a really Junior among the Juniors XD(Words Game) against someone who is supposed to be a Senior among the arrancars, more like a LORD, since she should be the 3rd strongest espada, that is why everyone is bashing him, and encouraging him to lose, because none can have a way of looking how hitsu would be capable to win, without making the whole fight Lame.

4) If ichigo beats byakuya, and Byakuya is supposed to be stronger than Hitsu, then Hitsu is weaker than Ichigo.... i hate this kinda of logic since i like to see that if someone can beat an opponent that is strongest than its partner it doesnt mean that he can beat the partner, but here you have a great gap in powers.

5) remember, one of the ways and the most easy way to become a captain is taking an exam which 80% consist in showing that you achived Bankai

Seriph2
October 17, 2008, 01:22 PM
Dude, first to be clear in some points:

1) Hitsugaya is not supposed to be a genius, HE IS A GENIUS! since he is supposedly the reincarnation of a legendary being that is born every X years and is extremely talented while its life goes on till its death.

2) Hitsugaya's zanpakutoh is the strongest of all water-ice element zanpakutō in Soul Society, is not just his bankai, so this has nothing to do with if its elemental or not, being elemental doesnt make it powerful and that is stated that is the most powerful among its own element never means that is equal in power to other elements.

Ex. Measured in numbers let say hitsu's sword has a power of 190,000 so its means other ice zanpakutoh are below this number, but Old yama's zanpakutoh can have a power of 500,000 and is a huge gap, but have never said in this example that hitsu's sword was weak among the elemental ice swords, hope you get it.

3) I think you know that the sleeves in a haori shows some seniority over other captains, so if you see a captain with a haori sleeveless he or she is a Junior captain (YES!!!, BYAKUYA IS A JUNIOR CAPTAIN! so are gin and tousen) so the ones with sleeves are Senior captains, and i dont think you think, Hitsu can beat Byakuya, or put up a fight with Soifon not even talk about gin, did you saw the Pendulum arc dont you? So we are talking about a Junior who is a really Junior among the Juniors XD(Words Game) against someone who is supposed to be a Senior among the arrancars, more like a LORD, since she should be the 3rd strongest espada, that is why everyone is bashing him, and encouraging him to lose, because none can have a way of looking how hitsu would be capable to win, without making the whole fight Lame.

4) If ichigo beats byakuya, and Byakuya is supposed to be stronger than Hitsu, then Hitsu is weaker than Ichigo.... i hate this kinda of logic since i like to see that if someone can beat an opponent that is strongest than its partner it doesnt mean that he can beat the partner, but here you have a great gap in powers.

5) remember, one of the ways and the most easy way to become a captain is taking an exam which 80% consist in showing that you achived Bankai




The variable in all of this is stylistic matchups. Byakuya who we could probably all agree is "stronger" than mayuri would have been EASILY dispatched by mad scientist espada. I'm not bashing when I say this so please dont misunderstand but alot of people are viewing bleach with the dbz mindset where there is a "straight forward" power level that determines strength. In bleach everything leading up to these fights has foreshadowed the importance of stylistic matchups.

Not to say that I think this is the most rewarding technique to the reader, because these perfect dream matchups do get cheesy and old, however thats the way it currently is so its safe to assume there is a cheesy logical explanation to it all.

Josear XIII
October 17, 2008, 01:43 PM
The variable in all of this is stylistic matchups. Byakuya who we could probably all agree is "stronger" than mayuri would have been EASILY dispatched by mad scientist espada. I'm not bashing when I say this so please dont misunderstand but alot of people are viewing bleach with the dbz mindset where there is a "straight forward" power level that determines strength. In bleach everything leading up to these fights has foreshadowed the importance of stylistic matchups.

Not to say that I think this is the most rewarding technique to the reader, because these perfect dream matchups do get cheesy and old, however thats the way it currently is so its safe to assume there is a cheesy logical explanation to it all.

STRONGER THAN MAYURI!!!!!??????? DUDE did you read the Point number 3 about Juniors and Seniors, and dont worry i noticed that you put some ("") in the word stronger, but man, some can say he is cooler or so but stronger, please, while Byakuya was a child trying to be a shinigami, Mayuri was imprisoned for being considered a high danger class possible threat to the SS, so cooler, meaby, but stronger, NEVER, and have to look at the sleeves, mayuri is a senior which means experienced and knowledge (hahaha Just wanted to make mayuri look cooler with this sentence dont take it seriously), dont worry im not looking at this DB like, because if it was that way we can say mayuri is weaker since he's total in the stats is 430 and byakuya's 510, in a fight between the 2 of 'em mayuri would win with all kind of poisons.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 01:52 PM
Guys Guys we all know the Kuchiki fights were ridiculous for a whole ton of different reasons but now it's time to talk about the current chapter.

First Halibel's sword is pretty awesome, it's got some interesting moves that could be pulled off because of it(locking opponenets sword in it). Sadly Halibel was not so awesome this chapter, in fact she didn't talk chapter which keeps making me wonder if she's not third in line because of the zero character development, still we got a vague reference at her power this chapter so I can hope.

Next on too Rangiku's fight, yeah it was probablly the highlight of this chapter, Rangiku made the battle interesting with her Zan's ability. Gave it a good explanation(turns out I was only half right in that each Ash piece is her Sword) etc. And showed how useful it could be if used correctly. Defintely can't wait for more and will probablly be my favorite Fraccion battle.

Omaeda was Omaeda.

I think after this chapter I'm sure that Soi Fon will have to pull out her Bankai to win. By the law of Bleach whoever uses Shikai/Release/Bankai will lose. Since Soi Fon used Shikai she's going to lose the moment the girl Fraccion uses Release and we all know where it goes from their.

As for hypothetical Mayuri vs Byakuya debate if they both are Bloodlusted and CIS/PIS is off then Byakuya wins but will probablly die after a while. Actually a speedblitz isn't out of the question.

And wait just to clear something up where was it stated that Byakuya was stronger then Hitsugaya? Not saying he's not but just asking.

poobert
October 17, 2008, 01:59 PM
Good chapter. Halibel not only draws her sword in the most coolest fashion ever but it also looks super cool. She will not loose because all manga is driven by the coolness law, where the coolest character always wins.

I like the switching around fights because it means that every time it switches to another fight, there will be a relatively good scene, but I think that the fight with Stark will have to have a dedicated chapter. There is too much to see where that fight is concerned. Neither of the captains have been fully explored (even their shikai).


By the way, does anyone have any conformation on the whole sleeved robes being better than non sleeved ones other than it seems to fit?

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 02:00 PM
Dude, first to be clear in some points:

1) Hitsugaya is not supposed to be a genius, HE IS A GENIUS! since he is supposedly the reincarnation of a legendary being that is born every X years and is extremely talented while its life goes on till its death.

2) Hitsugaya's zanpakutoh is the strongest of all water-ice element zanpakutō in Soul Society, is not just his bankai, so this has nothing to do with if its elemental or not, being elemental doesnt make it powerful and that is stated that is the most powerful among its own element never means that is equal in power to other elements.

Ex. Measured in numbers let say hitsu's sword has a power of 190,000 so its means other ice zanpakutoh are below this number, but Old yama's zanpakutoh can have a power of 500,000 and is a huge gap, but have never said in this example that hitsu's sword was weak among the elemental ice swords, hope you get it.

3) I think you know that the sleeves in a haori shows some seniority over other captains, so if you see a captain with a haori sleeveless he or she is a Junior captain (YES!!!, BYAKUYA IS A JUNIOR CAPTAIN! so are gin and tousen) so the ones with sleeves are Senior captains, and i dont think you think, Hitsu can beat Byakuya, or put up a fight with Soifon not even talk about gin, did you saw the Pendulum arc dont you? So we are talking about a Junior who is a really Junior among the Juniors XD(Words Game) against someone who is supposed to be a Senior among the arrancars, more like a LORD, since she should be the 3rd strongest espada, that is why everyone is bashing him, and encouraging him to lose, because none can have a way of looking how hitsu would be capable to win, without making the whole fight Lame.

4) If ichigo beats byakuya, and Byakuya is supposed to be stronger than Hitsu, then Hitsu is weaker than Ichigo.... i hate this kinda of logic since i like to see that if someone can beat an opponent that is strongest than its partner it doesnt mean that he can beat the partner, but here you have a great gap in powers.

5) remember, one of the ways and the most easy way to become a captain is taking an exam which 80% consist in showing that you achived Bankai

Tousen's haori had sleeves.

and i don't remember it having ever been stated that there was an actual bounds between sleeved and sleeveless haori's, as in seniority.

i think it's probably just whatever style they choose, and it just so happens that Yama, Uki, Shun, Uno, and Aizen all have them.

Chaoswind
October 17, 2008, 02:09 PM
Like Josear said

There is no way I can see Hitsu beating Halibel, is just not possible that a person that had troubles with Lupi... LUPI!!! "with is probably a little stronger than yami" can beat a very possible Vastrolord Espada... IF she has to resurrect her form just to beat him that would be utterly lame...

and what can Hitsu do to her? Freeze her? or prepare her a few drinks and get her drunk?

Same with Matsumoto, OK, Ok now we can see that those Espadas are quite the idiots, however, now they know about Matsumoto Shikai, and how it works (just shows how brainless matsumoto is) so what can she do in order to beat them? attack their femininity to dead? unless she gets back up, she is going to lose...

and Mayuri would just cheat to dead, he probably has a "tonic" IE steroids that would raise his stats above the old yamamoto for a few hours.

and Yes, the Haori means seniority, just look in wikipedia or read a little bit of the databook, at least the bit that was translated O.o

Josear XIII
October 17, 2008, 02:31 PM
Guys Guys we all know the Kuchiki fights were ridiculous for a whole ton of different reasons but now it's time to talk about the current chapter.

First Halibel's sword is pretty awesome, it's got some interesting moves that could be pulled off because of it(locking opponenets sword in it). Sadly Halibel was not so awesome this chapter, in fact she didn't talk chapter which keeps making me wonder if she's not third in line because of the zero character development, still we got a vague reference at her power this chapter so I can hope.

Next on too Rangiku's fight, yeah it was probablly the highlight of this chapter, Rangiku made the battle interesting with her Zan's ability. Gave it a good explanation(turns out I was only half right in that each Ash piece is her Sword) etc. And showed how useful it could be if used correctly. Defintely can't wait for more and will probablly be my favorite Fraccion battle.

Omaeda was Omaeda.

I think after this chapter I'm sure that Soi Fon will have to pull out her Bankai to win. By the law of Bleach whoever uses Shikai/Release/Bankai will lose. Since Soi Fon used Shikai she's going to lose the moment the girl Fraccion uses Release and we all know where it goes from their.

As for hypothetical Mayuri vs Byakuya debate if they both are Bloodlusted and CIS/PIS is off then Byakuya wins but will probablly die after a while. Actually a speedblitz isn't out of the question.

And wait just to clear something up where was it stated that Byakuya was stronger then Hitsugaya? Not saying he's not but just asking.

hey dont get me wrong man, i started talking about the chapter XD:p but i dont think mayuri would die he would stand up and show to everyone that it was all detailed prepared XD, meaby he hide his brain and heart in his pocket at the last split of second.

and to answer the Hitsu Byakuya regard:

Stats from the databook:

Kuchiki Byakuya, 6th Division Taicho
Strength: 90
Defence: 80
Mobility: 90
Kidou: 90
Intellect: 90
Physical Strength: 70
Total: 510

Tōshirō Hitsugaya, 10th Division Taicho
Strength: 80
Defence: 80
Mobility: 90
Kidou: 90
Intellect: 80
Physical Strength: 80
Total: 500

But i think its more like 510 and 400 XD personal feelings


Tousen's haori had sleeves.

and i don't remember it having ever been stated that there was an actual bounds between sleeved and sleeveless haori's, as in seniority.

i think it's probably just whatever style they choose, and it just so happens that Yama, Uki, Shun, Uno, and Aizen all have them.

True, he has sleeves XD fucking memory, its so busted XD.

ROLFMAO.... It just happens that Yama, Uki, Shun, Uno and Aizen have them!? this really cracks me up so much coincidences dont you think... and you think it was a coincidence that Shinji Hirako had them too, and Urahara kisuke, and he was highly respected for his time spent with the Shuhouin Family. And as chaoswind says it, it was stated in the databook.

DAMN WHY NO ONE WANTS TO TRANSLATE ALL THE DATABOOKS AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!! Dont mind me im crazy

Megaman84
October 17, 2008, 02:37 PM
and Yes, the Haori means seniority, just look in wikipedia or read a little bit of the databook, at least the bit that was translated O.o

I forgot Wikipedia was Gospel...

I could see (as someone mentioned before) Barragan maybe cutting some of these fights short, perhaps killing the arrancar because they are not doing so well in the fights; The Soi Fon vs Sabretooth (?) fight in particular. This would leave some room other groups to perhaps get involved - Vaizard, Ishhin et al.

(I can't friggin wait until we see the Vaizard again)

P.s Josear XIII : Its been widely commentated on that the data from the data books is not literal and represents their own individual percentages. In that Byakuya's 80% will not necessarily be at the same level as Hitsugaya's 80%.

Chaoswind
October 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
I forgot Wikipedia was Gospel...

I could see (as someone mentioned before) Barragan maybe cutting some of these fights short, perhaps killing the arrancar because they are not doing so well in the fights; The Soi Fon vs Sabretooth (?) fight in particular. This would leave some room other groups to perhaps get involved - Vaizard, Ishhin et al.

(I can't friggin wait until we see the Vaizard again)

P.s Josear XIII : Its been widely commentated on that the data from the data books is not literal and represents their own individual percentages. In that Byakuya's 80% will not necessarily be at the same level as Hitsugaya's 80%.


Wikipedia is not gospel, but is pretty damn close if you ask me.

most of the people that updates wikipedia in the anime/manga related things are crazy otakus that as song an anime comes out they look for the voice actors and other crap.

and like I said I read it in a databook notepad translation.

and yeah everyone knows the data in any manga related databook is done by fans and the authors of said manga have nothing to do with them. :darn

Josear XIII
October 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
P.s Josear XIII : Its been widely commentated on that the data from the data books is not literal and represents their own individual percentages. In that Byakuya's 80% will not necessarily be at the same level as Hitsugaya's 80%.

I know the facts are not literal, but, my friend Onomatopoeia asked, where is stated, and i just answered. Because Hitsu 80% would be someyhing more like Byakuya's 30 or 35% XD

Tsukisama
October 17, 2008, 03:28 PM
Wikipedia is not gospel, but is pretty damn close if you ask me.

most of the people that updates wikipedia in the anime/manga related things are crazy otakus that as song an anime comes out they look for the voice actors and other crap.

and like I said I read it in a databook notepad translation.

and yeah everyone knows the data in any manga related databook is done by fans and the authors of said manga have nothing to do with them. :darn

Where does it say anything related to captain haori sleeves equaling seniority on Wikipedia? I am fairly active in editing the Bleach articles on Wikipedia, and I am fairly certain that that is not listed anywhere (or at least it is not supposed to be).

The haori sleeve thing is so just a theory that has had some popularity among Bleach readers. It was not explicitly stated in the databook as such (although if you can produce evidence to the contrary, I will evaluate it). Given what we have seen from the gaiden, it seems that either the haori style is based on preference, as Urahara is seen wearing sleeves when he becomes a captain, obviously not having any seniority.

Hockeychaoz
October 17, 2008, 03:55 PM
Ex. Measured in numbers let say hitsu's sword has a power of 190,000 so its means other ice zanpakutoh are below this number, but Old yama's zanpakutoh can have a power of 500,000 and is a huge gap, but have never said in this example that hitsu's sword was weak among the elemental ice swords, hope you get it.

Your just putting a really low number for Hitsu to bias it. The strongest ice type being over twice as weak as the fire type? I do agree with the concept, just not the figures.

3) I think you know that the sleeves in a haori shows some seniority over other captains, so if you see a captain with a haori sleeveless he or she is a Junior captain (YES!!!, BYAKUYA IS A JUNIOR CAPTAIN! so are gin and tousen) so the ones with sleeves are Senior captains, and i dont think you think, Hitsu can beat Byakuya, or put up a fight with Soifon not even talk about gin, did you saw the Pendulum arc dont you? So we are talking about a Junior who is a really Junior among the Juniors XD(Words Game) against someone who is supposed to be a Senior among the arrancars, more like a LORD, since she should be the 3rd strongest espada, that is why everyone is bashing him, and encouraging him to lose, because none can have a way of looking how hitsu would be capable to win, without making the whole fight Lame.

Flawed logic. Your saying that just because someone is Junior means that he is instantly weaker than his senior. Umm Kenpachi much? He had 0 seniority and he killed a captain. Cool.

4) If ichigo beats byakuya, and Byakuya is supposed to be stronger than Hitsu, then Hitsu is weaker than Ichigo.... i hate this kinda of logic since i like to see that if someone can beat an opponent that is strongest than its partner it doesnt mean that he can beat the partner, but here you have a great gap in powers.

Why is Byakuya supposed to be stronger than Hitsu? I notice a trend that the captains who have done cooler things so far are "more powerful" in people's lives.


5) remember, one of the ways and the most easy way to become a captain is taking an exam which 80% consist in showing that you achived Bankai

80%. Where did you get this figure?
[hr]

Like Josear said

There is no way I can see Hitsu beating Halibel, is just not possible that a person that had troubles with Lupi... LUPI!!! "with is probably a little stronger than yami" can beat a very possible Vastrolord Espada... IF she has to resurrect her form just to beat him that would be utterly lame...



Whats with all the hate towards Lupi? 3 Vice captain level people could not even begin to get close to him to scratch him. Hitsu owned him.

Do you think Aizen just made him the 6th Espada for fun? No, he deserved the rank. People just don't like that Hitsu beat the 6th espada. (Yes, he was beaten. Negacion saved his rear.)

Lupi was strong, probably as strong as GJ. Just his release wasn't as cool.
Lupi is seen as weak because GJ ohko'd him. That was a surprise attack, after Lupi had just got owned by Hitsu and after Inoue had healed GJ.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 03:58 PM
He get his figures from the databook so it's obviously going to be flawed.

I'd say Luppi's power was only at 8th or 9th. Though that does not mean their was a huge gap between the two it's just GJ got a surprise Headshot on Luppi.

As for Wiki it's not a great source in an arguement because of things like these, nothing more then a fan theory(that might be true) is put down as fact in Wiki. I do not deny that it's possible but it's not a fact.

Chaoswind
October 17, 2008, 04:13 PM
Huh

we are talking about the guy that even if he was weakened he died with a Zero... not a royal zero a common zero that any strong hollow can use... and yeah the damn thing is deadly, but after GJ got his arm back Lupi should have known he was taking his number rank too, but I guess he just was retarded.

Also Lupi was hardly a numero 6, and was probably weaker than GJ, maybe not by a lot, but surely weaker, after all Aizen let GJ kill him.

Regardless Hitsu beating Halibel, is just NOT POSSIBLE, not without help, if he wins I stop reading bleach, why you may ask, is simple, If he wins it was just to please the hitsu fans, and fans should never be pleased, look at what happened to Naruto, the manga sucks with all the pages reeking of Naruto and his blind love for sasuke, anyway all the espadas kept saying that there is a huge difference between each rank, and Lupi can't even be compared to Halibel, so Hitsu has no reason to win other than pleasing the crazy hitsu fans and that would suck so much plot wise.

Good guys need to die!!!! or at least LOSE, if all the captains win, there is no point in waiting for the Vizards or Urahara, in my eyes all the captains should lose and very well die!!!


I know, I know this post is full of hate, but is just the opinion of an annoyed person and I have all the right to vent a little bit of my anger.

But I can say some positive things too

Soi Fon is going to win easily, but the Sabertooth should release before that... I mean even the Whale could release >_>

Raizen
October 17, 2008, 04:25 PM
Hitsu has the most untapped potential out of all the captains so it wouldn't be surprising if he increased his strength quite a lot.

As for matsu, oh i love a good girl fight. But matsu is going to have to pull something new out. Unlike byakuya's petals, she can't use haineko as a shield. So she has to call it back as a sword which is a disadvantage seeing as how she is outnumbered.

Soifon, nice kido spell. Hopefully the girl release and thinks that she is badass b/c she broke out of the trap and tehn soifon 2 hit her

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 04:51 PM
Cero to head, I want you to find me the number of people who could honestly tank that from GJ. It would screw anyone over other then the top teir if it was coming from a mid teir like GJ. People like Kenpachi would be missing their head if a point blank holding your head Cero was charged on you. Luppi dieing from that is not at all a negative.

Hitsugaya can win it believably just depends on whether Kubo decides to BS it or if he actually uses all the material he's given himself over the chapters with Hitsugaya.

Chaoswind
October 17, 2008, 04:55 PM
Hitsu has the most untapped potential out of all the captains so it wouldn't be surprising if he increased his strength quite a lot.

As for matsu, oh i love a good girl fight. But matsu is going to have to pull something new out. Unlike byakuya's petals, she can't use haineko as a shield. So she has to call it back as a sword which is a disadvantage seeing as how she is outnumbered.

Soifon, nice kido spell. Hopefully the girl release and thinks that she is badass b/c she broke out of the trap and tehn soifon 2 hit her

I know and believe me I am one of the few here in our group that keeps saying that Hitsu is not the weakest Captain, I keep saying that his Bankai doesn't go off after the petals banish and is more like its true form is revealed (I remenber when he said all the water in the world is his power) BUT there is no way he can win vs Halibel, if he wins that would Utterly suck and beat the whole purpose of showing the Vizards going to the war front, the captains need to lose and lose BADLY or the whole thing is POINTLESS.

Lets say the captains win and all the Espadas die, then what?:darn

is not like they can call the Villain Delivery and order 5 more espadas, after Stark, Barragan, Halibel and Ulq die, there is no other Arrancar to fight... or you expect me to believe that YAMI is somewhere waiting his chance?

Yeah, The "EVIL" side still has Aizen, Gin and Tousen...

But the good side would have the Captains, the lead crew, the Vizards, the Urahara crew... and lets not forget about Keigo Azano (coolest character in Bleach, specially in the anime)

The only way I won't get pissed if the captains win, is if they are already under the effect of Aizens Shikai and they are actually fighting air AKA attacking nothing, and meanwhile Aizen is already taking over SS with his gang :tem


Cero to head, I want you to find me the number of people who could honestly tank that from GJ. It would screw anyone over other then the top teir if it was coming from a mid teir like GJ. People like Kenpachi would be missing their head if a point blank holding your head Cero was charged on you. Luppi dieing from that is not at all a negative.

Hitsugaya can win it believably just depends on whether Kubo decides to BS it or if he actually uses all the material he's given himself over the chapters with Hitsugaya.

Well, hmmm The cricked aka Nnoitora could probably stand it (My Hierro is the strongest among the Espada) but a less retarded person would have at least tried to dodge it, and don't say he didn't have time to dodge, he had time to put "the I am fucked face" and if you have time for that you have time for SONIDO >_>

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 05:08 PM
Keigo Asano,are we talking about the same guy who wishes he was Shinji?

As for Hitsugaya, he's got a title for this power, honestly it's quite believable that if he did gain this "Heavenly Guardian" power that he would be able to beat Halibel. Heavenly Guardian could easily be translated to Bodyguard of God and since God is what Aizen is aiming for you could be sure that a Heavenly Guardian would be fucktons strong, at the very least Heavenly Guardian would be translated in Bleach as Captain of the Royal Guard or something like that.

Anyways what I'm trying to get at is that anyone who has Heavenly Guardian as their title has to be strong and ridiculously so.

Hockeychaoz
October 17, 2008, 05:20 PM
Huh

without help, if he wins I stop reading bleach,

We'll miss you. -.-
[hr]


he had time to put "the I am fucked face" and if you have time for that you have time for SONIDO >_>

Fist through spine?

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 05:23 PM
someone link the page where Hitsu was called heavenly guardian for me, please.

i could have sworn it was more along the lines of "child prodigy, the likes of which only come about once every few centuries."

and if it was heavenly guardian or whatever, was he actually stated to be the reincarnation of this heavenly guardian, or was it "said to be the spirit of a heavenly guardian, reincarnated once every blah blah blah"?

either way, it seems like it's being taken too literally. but i'd like to see the actual part of the manga where it is, before i denounce it.


We'll miss you. -.-
<hr noshade size="1">


Fist through spine?

he couldn't take ANY action to block or dodge or counter that attack? a punch at his gut? really?
i know he was a little fairy boy, but come on, surely someone holding the place of 6th espada should be able to avoid such a direct, simple attack.

hajialibaig
October 17, 2008, 05:40 PM
I think this "Heavenly Guardian" thing that Hitsu was described as is being taken too literally.

How long has it been since Hitsu fought Luppi and almost got killed? Let's see... Orihime was kidnapped during that day.. Ichigo left to HM a day or two later, not sure, and the crew hasn't spent more than a day there, and now we have the big fight, so I say, only 4 days have passed.

Now the question is, who in hell thinks that Hitsu got uber strong in 4 days, where as he had a month to train after his fight with Shawlong and it didn't make a difference.....

To conclude, hitsugay beating Halibel will be utter fanservice and ruin the manga forever. //END

Darth Executor
October 17, 2008, 05:45 PM
Lupi was seriously wounded when Grimmjow killed him. That's why he was in such a nasty mood.

hajialibaig
October 17, 2008, 05:49 PM
Stats from the databook:

Kuchiki Byakuya, 6th Division Taicho
Strength: 90
Defence: 80
Mobility: 90
Kidou: 90
Intellect: 90
Physical Strength: 70
Total: 510

Tōshirō Hitsugaya, 10th Division Taicho
Strength: 80
Defence: 80
Mobility: 90
Kidou: 90
Intellect: 80
Physical Strength: 80
Total: 500

But i think its more like 510 and 400 XD personal feelings





You're comparing apples to oranges.. which is meaningless. That 500 that Hitsu had means nothing to what Byakuya or any other captain has, since each character has their own limits.
[hr]

Lupi was seriously wounded when Grimmjow killed him. That's why he was in such a nasty mood.

Everyone forgets that Grimmjow had the crap beaten out of him too, but not as much as Luppi I suppose.

The point is, Grimmjow wasn't 100% either, he took multiple GTs and a Cero from Shinji :D

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 05:58 PM
Grimm looked worse off than Luppi. Luppi had some scuffed clothing and skin after being broken out of the ice. Grimm had tattered clothes, one arm, and was bloody after Ichigo and Shinji were through with him.

Darth Executor
October 17, 2008, 06:05 PM
Everyone forgets that Grimmjow had the crap beaten out of him too, but not as much as Luppi I suppose.

The point is, Grimmjow wasn't 100% either, he took multiple GTs and a Cero from Shinji :D

Yeah, and Orihime healed him. He only had the getsuga tenshou scar left (which isn't a big deal). Other than that he was at full strength.

Raizen
October 17, 2008, 06:08 PM
Grimm looked worse off than Luppi. Luppi had some scuffed clothing and skin after being broken out of the ice. Grimm had tattered clothes, one arm, and was bloody after Ichigo and Shinji were through with him.
I think orihime healed him, sure it was only the hand but he was hit w/ TT long ago so he should have recovered. Luppi was weakened and was caught off guard. he didn't think that GJ would do that, stupid him. Also we have no idea what the effect and damage the ice prison does to the enemy so luppi could have very well been seriously injured.

Now, I am saying hitsu is not a weakling, but I don't think he would beat halibel. He would make her release but I don't think he can win. I think youruichi will finish the fight w/ halibel

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 06:13 PM
I'm really unsure how I feel about Hitsuyuga facing Halibel.....I think without a doubt Hitsuyugu should NOT win if he just does the same things as before.....but we don't know what Halibel is like, what her fighting style is, etc...He could end up getting a natural advantage...........

hajialibaig
October 17, 2008, 06:23 PM
I'm really unsure how I feel about Hitsuyuga facing Halibel.....I think without a doubt Hitsuyugu should NOT win if he just does the same things as before.....but we don't know what Halibel is like, what her fighting style is, etc...He could end up getting a natural advantage...........

From Wikipedia:

"Hitsugaya was voted the most popular Bleach character in the latest Shonen Jump polls, replacing Ichigo Kurosaki, who had previously held the position. He received 8278 votes, 383 votes more than Rukia Kuchiki, who finished second. In the 2007 Japanese Newtype magazine character polls, he was voted the 7th most popular character in any anime".

Logic says that Hitsugaya cannot beat Halibel. But sometimes, money > logic, even if it ends up ruining the manga to the minority of readers.

But then again, as long as the majority (Hitsugaya fans are happy), who cares about the minority, right?

^That's why I am pessimisitc about this Halibel vs. Hitsugaya thing.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 06:42 PM
Looks like I got screwed over again by the Anime...

Hajililbaig, did you forget Tenshitaien? The 11 second to 15 minute Mask Duration? etc.

It would be by far the least worriable travesty in the Manga, 4 days is more then enough for a Shonen. Especially if our prediction about the Countdown is correct, if it is then Kubo will have made it quite believable.

serventarcher
October 17, 2008, 07:03 PM
The only thing that caught my eye in this chapter was Halibel's sword. It looks so damn cool. And Halibel's fraccion have no right to think Stark and Lilinette are annoying if they can't shut the hell up them selfs. Also, the lack of Stark is making me sad, but I guess I should expect this since he is one of the top espada.

As for Hitsu vs Halibel, I can't wait for it to be over so I can stop reading your complaints/arguments. After I read some posts in the ch. 229 discussion I changed my opinion on this fight. I can't see him winning just from popularity.


lastly, off topic (and late)


btw, i'm liking the Allelujah avatar, serventarcher! he was the coolest of the meisters!
Thank you for the comment (although my avatar has Hallelujah) and I completely agree!!

hajialibaig
October 17, 2008, 08:01 PM
yea, Halibel's face has "I am going to pwn you" written all over it. I hope that's exactly what she does :^)

Anyway, I see that Kubo is trying to finish off all the fraccion fights first. (And we know who will win...) It kind of reminds me of that fantastic 4 whole mini-arc that lasted for a good 2 months... anyways, I suspect that Kubo will then move on and finish off the Rukia&Friends fights, and give a quick update on the situation in HM

So yea, it'll be another good 2 months before we'll see the top Espada fight :(

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 17, 2008, 08:07 PM
Hmmm, it would make the most sense for soi fon to finish up in the next chapter, we now the fraccion wont die right away cuz she hasnt said her name yet, never mind release. id like it if her release was sabertooth themed, and makes her really fast. then they have one superspeed charge at one another, in which the fraccion dies right away as soi quickly double stabs her. as she walks away, three slashes slowly open up across soi's face, but being badass she acts like it nuthin ;), then turns to baragan, shouldnt take more then a 6-7 pages, then we should get an update on the stark/shunsui fight, and then set up the next chapter for the rest of the matsu fight.

i know hes not important, and is prolly jus sittin around, but i wanna know what the first lt. is doin, hes just so mysterious i cant stand it, hes like mr blue from reservoir dogs, and i hated the fact you don't know who he is or what happens to mr blue (and yet kinda loved it at the same time, crazy tarantino)id like it if he goes to releive koma from the pillar, so he can join the fray once more.

also, urahara is prolly aware of the situation, so what is he doin thats more important then releasing four cpts from HM, cuz hes def. up to sumthin

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 08:27 PM
I am so sick of Kubo wasting pages of Manga on people drawing their swords, for petes sake, I mean Ulq got a fullpage a couple of months ago HALIBEL GOT 2!!!! Seriously how about a little less sword drawing a little more plot development *sigh*

Anyway, I don't want Hitsuyuga to win, I was just thinking of ways Kubo probably will justify it lol

Next chapter Soifon will finish her Arrancarr, then kill the other Arrancarr just before he kills Fat VC....Then chapter will end with Hitsuyuga drawing his sword over 4 pages....

Chaoswind
October 17, 2008, 08:40 PM
Yeah, and Orihime healed him. He only had the getsuga tenshou scar left (which isn't a big deal). Other than that he was at full strength.

SHe healed his arm!!!

do you think he had all his reiatsu in his arm?
Luppi's dead was utterly lame, with of course I don't care about it.

Ok all of you complaining about Hitsu beating Halibel, lets assume he wins, no lets assume all the captains won their fights

everything inside "" are thoughts

Aizen: Gin what just happened?
Gin: Kubo had to please the fans and did the impossible, the captains won, all the espada are dead.
Aizen: BUT HOW?
Gin: All the Fans of Hitsugaya raised their hands in the real world and started to send their energy to him.
Aizen: Like in DBZ?
Tousen: More like Detroit Metal City... and he killed them all, even Old yamamoto was surprised he didn't have to fight.

Gin: So what now?
Aizen: I damn you GOD "Kubo"
Tousen: I guess we have no choice lets call the Villain Emergency assistance line.

Aizen: Good idea, good thing I thought about it.
Tousen:.... "is because I am black"

*Phone ringing*

Op: Villain Emergency Assistance line, Samir speaking
Aizen: Hello, I am Aizen from bleach, and I have a complain against the Secuaces you sent me.
Samir: Oh the Secuaces? that is not my department, wait until I redirect you.

*Elevator Music*

Aizen: "This is what I don't like about villains... they torture everyone even other Villains"

Op: Hello, Lisa Montez speaking
Aizen: Is this the Secuaces department?
Lisa: yes, may I be of any service?
Aizen: Well you see I ordered 30 Secuaces as a team that would help me to achieve my dream of world domination, and the problem is... well they are all dead.
Lisa: How odd!!!, in what series are you?
Aizen: I am Aizen, I work in Bleach.
Lisa: OH Mr. Aizen, I love your work
Aizen: Oh thanks, finally I feel appreciated, the last guys I turned into monsters... well they kind of hold a grudge against me.

Lisa: Ok Mr. Aizen, I usually don't do this, but I am going to help you, can you enter the following web page (www.Secuazdot.org)
Aizen: Thanks... Hey Gin, open firefox!!!

Gin: Hey everyone knows Villains use IE
Aizen: We can't waste our time, we have a god to kill.
Gin: Using Firefox goes against the code
Aizen: FINE, use IE...

*Several Minutes later*

Aizen: Ok, I am finally there.
Lisa: very well, this guy Dr. Secuaz makes the best Secuaces for any series, they take so much plot space, that some people call them the villains leads.
Aizen: Hey Hey the only villain lead here is me
Gin&Tousen: "Jackass"
Lisa: No you misunderstood, they are great, but they never betray their leaders, that is the trademark of Dr. Secuaz.
Aizen: Excellent, but I never hear about him.
Lisa: That is because he doesn't like to be well known, but you know Pein from Naruto.
Aizen: That guy? He is an army!!!
Lisa: That is a Second Rate Secuaz.
Aizen: F***, No kiding?
Lisa: For real!!
Aizen: So how do I get an army of those?
Lisa: Ok first the most important thing, Dr. Secuaz is very picky about the concurrency, you know the economy is not doing well.
Aizen: I have lots of money, so that is not a problem.
Lisa: Well I am afraid Dr. Secuaz only works with Babies.
Aizen: WHAT!!!
Lisa: Yeah, I don't know the details, and I really don't want to know them.
Aizen:... I don't have any of those
Lisa: Well he also takes Virgins
Aizen: Oh I have a few of those, Gin come here I need you.
Lisa: Female Virgins
Aizen: Oh... well I do have one... is that enough?
Lisa: That should be enough to buy 1 of Dr. Secuaz second hand products.
Aizen: For real?
Lisa: Is the price to pay... unless your virgin has absurdly big breast.
Aizen: She does!!!
Lisa: Really how she is?
Aizen: Well she is kind of dumb, but very kind hearted, the girl can't kill a fly, she has big breast and is a Natural Japanese red head and her name is Orihime.

Lisa: WOW, that should be worth at least a hundred, I mean Hime means Princes right? a beautiful Japanese princes that is kind hearted and dumb.
Aizen: "Orihime is not a princes, but is just a small lie"
Lisa: Well I just finished talks with Doctor Secuaz and he is willing to give you 10 first rate Secuaces and 100 second rate ones, he can give you a thousand for his special (Big and Dumb).

Aizen: No thanks, the last one was useless, I killed him myself out of the plot, that is why he doesn't appear anymore

Gin: Yo Aizen...
Aizen: WHAT IT IS!!! I am doing business.
Gin: When I told you they all died, I also mean Ulquiorra, Ichigo got her like 5 chapters ago.
Aizen:...

Aizen: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Lisa: Is everything all right, Mr Aizen?
Aizen: Yes, everything is all right... listen, I can't sent the girl right now, do you have some line of credit?

Lisa: I don't think you want that Mr. Aizen
Aizen: I can't sent the girl at the moment, you see her brother just died and she is at the funeral in another town.
Lisa: Ok... Our Credit line is called Yer Anus, if you don't pay withing 5 days... well I don't need to get into details, but you don't want that.
Aizen: Very well, just send them.

Gin: So when do they arrive?
Aizen: In two or three days
Tousen: What do we do until them?
Aizen: I don't know
Gin: Let's play Poker!!!
Aizen: I hate your poker face.


Aizen: KUBO, you better be prepared, now I am going to use all I have in this fight!!!
Aizen: For the world!!!!
Gin: "And your ass"

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 08:40 PM
Hmmm, it would make the most sense for soi fon to finish up in the next chapter, we now the fraccion wont die right away cuz she hasnt said her name yet, never mind release. id like it if her release was sabertooth themed, and makes her really fast. then they have one superspeed charge at one another, in which the fraccion dies right away as soi quickly double stabs her. as she walks away, three slashes slowly open up across soi's face, but being badass she acts like it nuthin ;), then turns to baragan, shouldnt take more then a 6-7 pages, then we should get an update on the stark/shunsui fight, and then set up the next chapter for the rest of the matsu fight.

i know hes not important, and is prolly jus sittin around, but i wanna know what the first lt. is doin, hes just so mysterious i cant stand it, hes like mr blue from reservoir dogs, and i hated the fact you don't know who he is or what happens to mr blue (and yet kinda loved it at the same time, crazy tarantino)id like it if he goes to releive koma from the pillar, so he can join the fray once more.

also, urahara is prolly aware of the situation, so what is he doin thats more important then releasing four cpts from HM, cuz hes def. up to sumthin

how awesome would it be if Soi Fon finished sabertooth-fraccion immediately and she(he?) never even gets the chance to give her name or release?
break up the expected, standard fight routine.

D-roy and Nakim were both killed without releasing.

i would love it.

then i'd like Soi Fon to just turn around and fire some powerful kido with one hand that kills the other fraccion in one hit. some kind of energy blast or something. :p just blow a hole through him and be done with it.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 09:03 PM
how awesome would it be if Soi Fon finished sabertooth-fraccion immediately and she(he?) never even gets the chance to give her name or release?
break up the expected, standard fight routine.

D-roy and Nakim were both killed without releasing.

i would love it.

then i'd like Soi Fon to just turn around and fire some powerful kido with one hand that kills the other fraccion in one hit. some kind of energy blast or something. :p just blow a hole through him and be done with it.

*Calculating the Awesomness*

About 1/4 of when Halibel releases

About 1/5 of when Stark releases

And about .0000001% of when Barragan Releases.

But seriously Soi Fon won't kill her Fraccion because thats not Kubo's way and you and I both know it. And this was such an obvious hint towards it, end the chapter with a really cool Shikai cutscene and end chapter. Next, Fraccion releases.

As for D-Roy and Nakim. Well D-Roy was fail even stated by his workers. And Nakim, he got a full total of 5 words?

Besides I was using hyperbole so my point still stands out of about 25 named Arrancar shown like two haven't followed the formula(okay other then Exquieas #342001324).

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 09:25 PM
o_O

you're more excited for the fat, old guy than for (shounen-made-obvious) powerful, lazy guy and the badass, half naked chick?


well, each to his own i guess.

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 09:32 PM
Damn Chaos that was a lot of effort to prove quite an easy point but still it is commendable lol

So what are we predicting now we see all the fraccions die then go to Ichigo or we stick in FKT for the top 3

This MANGA MAKES NO SENSE *cries*

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 09:37 PM
o_O

you're more excited for the fat, old guy than for (shounen-made-obvious) powerful, lazy guy and the badass, half naked chick?


well, each to his own i guess.

Why yes I'm more excited for the releasing of the only actually developed character of all three who actually has a personality and isn't a clone. But hey some people find appearences over personality, actually getting developed, and just all around coolness.

Half Naked Chick who has no personality and is a cliche above all Shounen cliche's add on the fact that her looks will probablly get a makeover when she releases that won't make her so attractive. Yeah Barragan over her.

Stark he's a clone and a Bishounen, has no personality other then the person he clone's honestly would you rather see Shunsui release or Yamamato? And he's cliche. It won't help that he might just get a make over too taking his "coolness" factor away. Yeah Barragan over him.

When Barragan releases people will die. Did you hear his line "I will walk a road made out of my opponents blood"? He's going to fight and kill who ever he fights.

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 09:41 PM
To be honest I don't really care about any of the Top 3, I want to get to Ulq, who will hopefully have an epic realise as well as an epic fighting style....And maybe Aizen will kill his own Espada because they don't kill the captains fast enough, that would be funny lol

ninjaman
October 17, 2008, 09:54 PM
hmm anyone thinks that all this fighting could just be another one of aizen illusions and he and the real espadas are in ss or the real karakura[w.e] town?

yoshikamaru
October 17, 2008, 09:54 PM
how awesome would it be if Soi Fon finished sabertooth-fraccion immediately and she(he?) never even gets the chance to give her name or release?
break up the expected, standard fight routine.

D-roy and Nakim were both killed without releasing.

i would love it.

then i'd like Soi Fon to just turn around and fire some powerful kido with one hand that kills the other fraccion in one hit. some kind of energy blast or something. :p just blow a hole through him and be done with it.

yeah, and I wish it'll be like that fraccion begging for more time, but Soi Fon only say, "Know your place arrancar..."
*SLASH!!*
:p

Seriph2
October 17, 2008, 10:30 PM
STRONGER THAN MAYURI!!!!!??????? DUDE did you read the Point number 3 about Juniors and Seniors, and dont worry i noticed that you put some ("") in the word stronger, but man, some can say he is cooler or so but stronger, please, while Byakuya was a child trying to be a shinigami, Mayuri was imprisoned for being considered a high danger class possible threat to the SS, so cooler, meaby, but stronger, NEVER, and have to look at the sleeves, mayuri is a senior which means experienced and knowledge (hahaha Just wanted to make mayuri look cooler with this sentence dont take it seriously), dont worry im not looking at this DB like, because if it was that way we can say mayuri is weaker since he's total in the stats is 430 and byakuya's 510, in a fight between the 2 of 'em mayuri would win with all kind of poisons.



The whole point about juniors and seniors is an interesting note however its completely irrelevant and besides the point about what I said about mayuri vs byakuya. I like mayuri as much as the next guy but he DID get beat by ishida but mayuri beat an opponent ishida couldnt, now why is that? STYLES and MATCHUPS. Yes you can argue ishida would have died bla bla but mayuri was STILL defeated. Anyways you missed my point and thats the fact that EVERYTHING in bleach is dicted by styles and matchups the only person that is an exception so far to that is ichigo.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 10:39 PM
The whole point about juniors and seniors is an interesting note however its completely irrelevant and besides the point about what I said about mayuri vs byakuya. I like mayuri as much as the next guy but he DID get beat by ishida but mayuri beat an opponent ishida couldnt, now why is that? STYLES and MATCHUPS. Yes you can argue ishida would have died bla bla but mayuri was STILL defeated. Anyways you missed my point and thats the fact that EVERYTHING in bleach is dicted by styles and matchups the only person that is an exception so far to that is ichigo.

It's suddenly bad to get beat by God Mode Ishida who is High Tier? Who Mayuri would have techniclly beaten if it wasn't for his traitorous VC.

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 10:42 PM
There are much better examples than the one Seriph2 used...I would argue Ishida would give most captains a run for their money in god mode....

ryanzokuken
October 17, 2008, 11:04 PM
It's suddenly bad to get beat by God Mode Ishida who is High Tier? Who Mayuri would have techniclly beaten if it wasn't for his traitorous VC.

agreed.

but i'd be traitorous too if i was treated the way he treats Nemu.

P e i n
October 17, 2008, 11:46 PM
Does anyone else think Kubo's on crack? This is somewhat ridiculous, there is so much to fit in and all he's doing is milking the arc.

Seriph2
October 17, 2008, 11:59 PM
It's suddenly bad to get beat by God Mode Ishida who is High Tier? Who Mayuri would have techniclly beaten if it wasn't for his traitorous VC.



You guys are missing the point I was trying to make. Its not about who is "strong" or "weak" its about the matchups. I was simply stating that mayuri lost to ishida but beat someone ishida couldnt, the only reason i threw in the fact that ishida STILL won even though he would have died without mayuri's vc was because I didnt want my actual point to get diluted by questioning whether or not ishida actually won. If anything you guys are proving my point moreso ( not saying you guys are trying to disprove me ) which is the fact that ishida IS very powerful but his stylistic matchup didnt allow him to beat the espada he faced.


The point I was trying to make to him just to reiterate is that although some characters in bleach are going to be stronger overall no matter who they face, majority of the fights we've seen thus far have been stylistic matchups that relied on element vs counter element type encounters. And like I said so far Ichigo has really been the only one exempt to that. Mayuri getting defeated by ishida wasnt supposed to be a knock on mayuri as if he is weak, on the contrary him being defeated by ishida who would give most captains like everyone has stated a run for their money but then defeating someone who ishida couldnt is exactly what I was getting at.

p.s. Mayuri is one of my favorite characters who doesnt like Mayuri hes intelligent, self serving, diabolical, overall wicked :)

Andonan
October 17, 2008, 11:59 PM
LOL I have a theory...Kubo has no idea what's going on and is making it up as he goes along. That is why he keeps stalling because he doesn't have a clue what's going to happen next....and maybe he's on crack LOL

P e i n
October 18, 2008, 12:24 AM
LOL I have a theory...Kubo has no idea what's going on and is making it up as he goes along. That is why he keeps stalling because he doesn't have a clue what's going to happen next....and maybe he's on crack LOL

He just loves putting in them "beauty/disagreement" arguments lately. About 6 pages were wasted this weak. And why oh why does every chapter have to end with a "its over" ( or this facial expression "O_O" )and a release of the zanpaktou. sigh

EDIT: it's the crack man, repeats the whole cycle. I think he still thinks this is the Hueco mundo arc and that the Bounto arc was part of the manga.

Magranon
October 18, 2008, 12:34 AM
Mayuri can beat any creature that relies on air to survive. All he has to do is release bankai and let the poison kill the enemy... I doubt if even Aizen can survive against Mayuri, he won't be able to cheap shot him because of Mayuri's fake body!

Every soul slayer I have seen has limits, ichigo's speed, kenpachi's strength, youmichka's energy draining abilities, Hitsugaya's ice, Soi-Fong's speed and even Yamamato's flames. Mayuri is a very interesting character in the fact that his soul slayer is so unique and probably the most deadly in the entire anime. It doesnt matter what abilities you have or how much Reiatsu you have.

Lets just say, if you can breathe.. then you will probably die against him, there is no counter against his poison, unless you can hold your breath for a very long time. Truly spectacular. :D

Well, I guess there is always the option of running away. :tem

PS: sorry for my English, its a 3rd language you see =]

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 12:36 AM
hmm anyone thinks that all this fighting could just be another one of aizen illusions and he and the real espadas are in ss or the real karakura[w.e] town?

I did in page 8 :)

and is the only way It would be OK for the captains to beat the Espadas :)

and who said you have to breath the poison to make it effective? as far as we know, you could die just by looking at it...

and I hope you get that or I will be very annoyed >_>

Nafycuk
October 18, 2008, 02:13 AM
About the whole illusion thing. Dear, it would be a very bad-ass thing. Espadas and Fraccions are Vaizards o_O It makes me tremble +_+ Oh, why did you ever assumed such a theory... I won't be able to sleep well, from now on... Soi Foin fighting Hyori in reality... Stark is Shinji... No,no,no David Blain, NO!

Inkovic
October 18, 2008, 02:31 AM
Anybody remember the last time Bleach was good?
God just have Ichigo v Ulquiorra now! Nobody wants to see every damn Shinigami fight every lower one-off Espada.

Andonan
October 18, 2008, 02:40 AM
I remember the last time Bleach was good.....SOUL SOCIETY ARC!

Omi_XII
October 18, 2008, 07:12 AM
LOL I have a theory...Kubo has no idea what's going on and is making it up as he goes along. That is why he keeps stalling because he doesn't have a clue what's going to happen next....and maybe he's on crack LOL

o_o Pretty sure the publishers would have made sure he had a precise, direct path for the Manga before they signed him up. He likely already knows how everything ends. e_e Obvious, I imagine

Uhm, I'm getting a bit bored with this thing now. I mean, I don't know.. This time last year Bleach was amazingly exciting, and quite fast paced (Though this could be due to me reading several chapters a week due to being backlogged from long holidays away from the net. ) and now it's gotten boring. I find myself skimming through the chapter pretty fast then moving on to Naruto, which is surprisingly more interesting at the moment. o_o! This could just be brought on by my purchase of The Watchmen though. God, it definitely puts the smack-down on most comics I've read.

nicobarten
October 18, 2008, 07:38 AM
Anybody remember the last time Bleach was good?
God just have Ichigo v Ulquiorra now! Nobody wants to see every damn Shinigami fight every lower one-off Espada.

crybaby...

Every manga has its moments that it's less interesting. Like Naruto, first they want to see sasuke fight, after the fight is over they think it was just stupid, and now it's getting interesting again.

Same with Bleach, when something new happens (like Aizen's new plot, or release bankai Ukitake), all people will like it again...

If you don't like it, don't watch/read it anymore then.

patz
October 18, 2008, 08:01 AM
Anybody remember the last time Bleach was good?
God just have Ichigo v Ulquiorra now! Nobody wants to see every damn Shinigami fight every lower one-off Espada.
NO, PLEASEEEEE. Ichigo's fight is REAL boring. The only thing he knows is swinging his sword and shout Getsuga Tenshou. I hope Kubo won't switch back anytime soon.

P e i n
October 18, 2008, 08:35 AM
NO, PLEASEEEEE. Ichigo's fight is REAL boring. The only thing he knows is swinging his sword and shout Getsuga Tenshou. I hope Kubo won't switch back anytime soon.

It sounds cool though. If you think about it, 5 weeks would = that fight.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 11:44 AM
Damn Chaos that was a lot of effort to prove quite an easy point but still it is commendable lol

So what are we predicting now we see all the fraccions die then go to Ichigo or we stick in FKT for the top 3

This MANGA MAKES NO SENSE *cries*

Don't know... a lot of people want Hitsugaya to beat Halibel.
A lot of people seem to think Matsumoto will go Bankai (most retarded Idea I have ever hear)
A lot of people want Stark to fail and get kicked around by Shunsui

If the captains don't fail and get their ass kicked then this manga will lose the few villains it has... or to be fair the few that care... I mean Aizen, Gin and Tousen? pfff

Aizen is the last boss and you can't expect any plot twist coming from that direction, unless the captains are already fighting Illusions in with case, would surely rock.
Gin and Tousen could have some effect to the plot thanks to their relations with Komamura, Matsumoto and the bleach(ed) emo.

and guess what... thats it!!!

Bleach is running low in Villains and I don't know WTF kubo is going to pull if he pleases the fans and kills the Arrancars (that matter)

The 3 key parts of any plot are:

Direction: Where the plot is going and what is the goal, if you lose that one the plot fails.

Leads: If the leads suck then the plot is useless, but they are related to the villains, if the villains are super good in what they do (is not the case in Bleach) then the leads don't need to have a great personality (Ichigo)

Villains: Leads and Villains are co related, a plot can be awesome with cliche leads and awesome villains, but doesn't work the other way around.

Bleach still has Direction (sort of) and the good guys range from the utterly useless (Nanao) to the awesome ones (Kenpachi).

But in the Villains department Bleach is running low of great ones and only the (crappy ones) ones like Yami and Aizen remain... I would dare to say that the only Villain besides the Arrancars that can develop in some nice mother fucker is Gin.

Superman aka Aizen, is no midboss and everyone knows that those are the ones that give a meaning to any plot... unless the last boss is someone like Kefka a person that you see often enough (and appears as the midboss until later) and annoys the hell out of you... and Aizen is not that kind of Villain.:darn

Josear XIII
October 18, 2008, 12:49 PM
Where does it say anything related to captain haori sleeves equaling seniority on Wikipedia? I am fairly active in editing the Bleach articles on Wikipedia, and I am fairly certain that that is not listed anywhere (or at least it is not supposed to be).

The haori sleeve thing is so just a theory that has had some popularity among Bleach readers. It was not explicitly stated in the databook as such (although if you can produce evidence to the contrary, I will evaluate it). Given what we have seen from the gaiden, it seems that either the haori style is based on preference, as Urahara is seen wearing sleeves when he becomes a captain, obviously not having any seniority.

its look like you werent there when there was a huge whole thread about the Shinigami. But here i have you a page where this is stated:

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Gotei_13
go the part of uniforms and read the second paragraph, and in case that you jump all of a sudden with the "its just a theory" thing, remember that Otakus write these XD.


80%. Where did you get this figure?
<hr noshade size="1">

DUDE IS JUST A ESTIMATION!!!! AN ESTIMATION!! if a teacher give you a test and she says that the most important part of the text is mmmm let me see..... The parts of the Human Brain, but in the test you have upperbody and chemical formulas, which part do you think is worthy?...... THEN!! if shinigamis state that the test consist in proving that you have achieved Bankai, even if there is a lot more of things to prove, which one do you think is the most worthy?.....

Hope you get my point

Whats with all the hate towards Lupi? 3 Vice captain level people could not even begin to get close to him to scratch him. Hitsu owned him.

Do you think Aizen just made him the 6th Espada for fun? No, he deserved the rank. People just don't like that Hitsu beat the 6th espada. (Yes, he was beaten. Negacion saved his rear.)

Lupi was strong, probably as strong as GJ. Just his release wasn't as cool.
Lupi is seen as weak because GJ ohko'd him. That was a surprise attack, after Lupi had just got owned by Hitsu and after Inoue had healed GJ.

HAHAHAHA, God have real cool ways to make me laugh, If Luppi was as strong as GJ, how do you explain the fact that aizen let GJ kill him, WORST THAN THAT, why he wasn't between the top 10 espada, because if someone deserves to be 6 is 7, dont you think? SO you are telling me that aizen have a lot of numeros in his pocket to replace the other espada, but DAMN!!, WHY HE DIDNT BROUGHT ALL THAT BRUTE FORCE INTO THE BATTLE O.O TAN TAN TAN!!!!! dont know if you made an evaluation of that before saying the "Luppi Deserve it" thing, aaah an another thing, if Aizen is a genius of evil, and has every thing accounted in his plan, it really doesnt matter if he pick a weak or a strong as a substitute that aside that the whole point on the Luppi being beaten by hitsu is to figure that he cant just jump from beating a 6 and i mean barely beating to just beat a 3.


He get his figures from the databook so it's obviously going to be flawed.

I'd say Luppi's power was only at 8th or 9th. Though that does not mean their was a huge gap between the two it's just GJ got a surprise Headshot on Luppi.

As for Wiki it's not a great source in an arguement because of things like these, nothing more then a fan theory(that might be true) is put down as fact in Wiki. I do not deny that it's possible but it's not a fact.

DUDE!!!! YOU WHERE THE ONE WHO ASKED WHERE IT WAS STATED THAT HITSU WAS WEAKER THAN BYAKUYA, OF COURSE!!!! IS NOT ACCURATE, I DOUBT THOSE ARE ALL THE DATA BUT, WHO WROTE IT?????? KUBO TITE!!!, HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN GIVE YOU THE NUMBERS DAMN!!!

so the whole point is that you are making me look like i think of the databook as a bible, of course is an important part of the data DUH! kubo tite wrote it, but im not going around telling that everithing in there is accurate. If was that way, a lot of thing that i have argued would be wrong.


You're comparing apples to oranges.. which is meaningless. That 500 that Hitsu had means nothing to what Byakuya or any other captain has, since each character has their own limits.
<hr noshade size="1">

no much to say here for you, just read the upper response


The only thing that caught my eye in this chapter was Halibel's sword. It looks so damn cool. And Halibel's fraccion have no right to think Stark and Lilinette are annoying if they can't shut the hell up them selfs. Also, the lack of Stark is making me sad, but I guess I should expect this since he is one of the top espada.

As for Hitsu vs Halibel, I can't wait for it to be over so I can stop reading your complaints/arguments. After I read some posts in the ch. 229 discussion I changed my opinion on this fight. I can't see him winning just from popularity.

You know fraccions do not obey orders from other espada that is not their leader, so even if they are bitches they can do as they please as long they dont anger their leader. and for stark, do not worry, you know that is said "save the best for the end" ;)


The whole point about juniors and seniors is an interesting note however its completely irrelevant and besides the point about what I said about mayuri vs byakuya. I like mayuri as much as the next guy but he DID get beat by ishida but mayuri beat an opponent ishida couldnt, now why is that? STYLES and MATCHUPS. Yes you can argue ishida would have died bla bla but mayuri was STILL defeated. Anyways you missed my point and thats the fact that EVERYTHING in bleach is dicted by styles and matchups the only person that is an exception so far to that is ichigo.

i never missed the point i just dont like see mayuri being put in a weak spot. And Ishida won over mayuri beacuse he overestimated him, he was tired of quincy crap (do not think im bashing quincy a friend told me a theory that has a lot of logic and that in my mind put the quincy as the STRONGEST in bleach) he just didnt thought that something new was coming on he was took by surprise because he is the kind o man that comes prepared, after seeing what he was capable of in hueco arc, do you really think that he could have lost to ishida if he knew he was a genius quincy?.

Now about your point of the matchups, i just thought you were saying that the fact that Barragan and old yama are going to fight is because of the perfect matchup between Strongest vs Strongest, and i replied telling you that is not necessarily strongest vs strongest, it could be Most Experienced vs Most Experienced or Oldest VS Oldest. hope you get it

Tsukisama
October 18, 2008, 01:04 PM
its look like you werent there when there was a huge whole thread about the Shinigami. But here i have you a page where this is stated:

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Gotei_13
go the part of uniforms and read the second paragraph, and in case that you jump all of a sudden with the "its just a theory" thing, remember that Otakus write these XD.

I see. I was referring to Wikipedia and not Bleach Wiki. On Wikipedia, such statements have been removed as they are nothing more than fan theory. Thank you for showing me this though. Hopefully, others realize that this just written be otaku who sometimes let their opinions slip into the articles.

Anyway, the subject has nothing really to do with this thread, but it may be continued in Biblioteca (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21081) for those who wish to continue it. :)

Onomatopoeia
October 18, 2008, 01:16 PM
Why wouldn't Rangiku get Bankai exactly? We know she's been training for it, we know she's probablly among the top 3 most experienced VCs. She's shown to be strong etc.

THe Databooks only show percents, it means nothing that so and so has a higher stat then someone else. The only one's where it actually matters is Aizen and Yama because we know that when they have a hundred in a stat they have near perfection. Their are a few others where it might matter in their specific stat(AKA Mayuri in smartness etc.)

Bleach Wiki is flawed I know this well. Even normal Wiki is sometimes bad.

Seriph2
October 18, 2008, 01:24 PM
its look like you werent there when there was a huge whole thread about the Shinigami. But here i have you a page where this is stated:

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Gotei_13
go the part of uniforms and read the second paragraph, and in case that you jump all of a sudden with the "its just a theory" thing, remember that Otakus write these XD.



HAHAHAHA, God have real cool ways to make me laugh, If Luppi was as strong as GJ, how do you explain the fact that aizen let GJ kill him, WORST THAN THAT, why he wasn't between the top 10 espada, because if someone deserves to be 6 is 7, dont you think? SO you are telling me that aizen have a lot of numeros in his pocket to replace the other espada, but DAMN!!, WHY HE DIDNT BROUGHT ALL THAT BRUTE FORCE INTO THE BATTLE O.O TAN TAN TAN!!!!! dont know if you made an evaluation of that before saying the "Luppi Deserve it" thing, aaah an another thing, if Aizen is a genius of evil, and has every thing accounted in his plan, it really doesnt matter if he pick a weak or a strong as a substitute that aside that the whole point on the Luppi being beaten by hitsu is to figure that he cant just jump from beating a 6 and i mean barely beating to just beat a 3.



DUDE!!!! YOU WHERE THE ONE WHO ASKED WHERE IT WAS STATED THAT HITSU WAS WEAKER THAN BYAKUYA, OF COURSE!!!! IS NOT ACCURATE, I DOUBT THOSE ARE ALL THE DATA BUT, WHO WROTE IT?????? KUBO TITE!!!, HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN GIVE YOU THE NUMBERS DAMN!!!

so the whole point is that you are making me look like i think of the databook as a bible, of course is an important part of the data DUH! kubo tite wrote it, but im not going around telling that everithing in there is accurate. If was that way, a lot of thing that i have argued would be wrong.



no much to say here for you, just read the upper response



You know fraccions do not obey orders from other espada that is not their leader, so even if they are bitches they can do as they please as long they dont anger their leader. and for stark, do not worry, you know that is said "save the best for the end" ;)



i never missed the point i just dont like see mayuri being put in a weak spot. And Ishida won over mayuri beacuse he overestimated him, he was tired of quincy crap (do not think im bashing quincy a friend told me a theory that has a lot of logic and that in my mind put the quincy as the STRONGEST in bleach) he just didnt thought that something new was coming on he was took by surprise because he is the kind o man that comes prepared, after seeing what he was capable of in hueco arc, do you really think that he could have lost to ishida if he knew he was a genius quincy?.

Now about your point of the matchups, i just thought you were saying that the fact that Barragan and old yama are going to fight is because of the perfect matchup between Strongest vs Strongest, and i replied telling you that is not necessarily strongest vs strongest, it could be Most Experienced vs Most Experienced or Oldest VS Oldest. hope you get it



Ugh. This is the last time im commenting about my mayuri vs ishida comparison. For the record you DIDNT understand, as I already stated the comparison was not meant to make mayuri sound weak, lame, stupid, or anything of the sort it was simply an example of how stylistic matchups have played out in bleach so far. Mayuri WAS defeated defending him by saying he underestimated ishida changes nothing about the fact that he was still defeated. Thats like saying Ali didnt beat foreman because foreman underestimated Ali when they fought in africa, facts are facts. But anyways back to my point at hand the only thing my comparison was meant to do was to show how Mayuri was defeated by ishida yet ishida couldnt defeat the person Mayuri dispatched of which was my only point about styles and matchups in bleach.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 01:55 PM
Why wouldn't Rangiku get Bankai exactly? We know she's been training for it, we know she's probablly among the top 3 most experienced VCs. She's shown to be strong etc.

THe Databooks only show percents, it means nothing that so and so has a higher stat then someone else. The only one's where it actually matters is Aizen and Yama because we know that when they have a hundred in a stat they have near perfection. Their are a few others where it might matter in their specific stat(AKA Mayuri in smartness etc.)

Bleach Wiki is flawed I know this well. Even normal Wiki is sometimes bad.

WTF!!!

I can give you a lot of reasons why she shouldn't

We know she has been training (if you can call that training), training to be a pro wrestler doesn't make you one.

Second in the first Arrancar Attack, both her and Hitsugaya where getting pounded around, and even if they had their limiters on she would have released her Bankai back then (that if she had it)

Now lets think about the Luppi raid... no she didn't do anything of the sorts, and lets throw the dreaded logic card that kills so many theories and renders them useless.

First Matsumoto has NO and I mean NO reason to hide her Bankai (so she doesn't have it)
Second Matsumoto life in the Gotei 13 is the life of an assistant (with is exactly what most VC are) have you ever seen a flash back of them going to the battle front to kill some Hollows? the 10 division is not the 11, they don't run to kill whenever there is trouble.

If every time there is trouble someone is going to pull a "Bankai" out of his ass then we should also expect Omaeda to Go "Bankai" too

and don't get me started about Matsumoto so called Experience...

Now lets say in the end Matsumoto does have a Bankai... FUCK that is so retarded that if it ends happening I will put Kubo mental stability into question.

and My point still stands, all the captains need to lose or the whole plot of Bleach will FAIL.

BigJDelux
October 18, 2008, 02:11 PM
I really think the captains and VCs will start to lose. Then we might get to see the vaizards in action.

Josear XIII
October 18, 2008, 02:28 PM
I see. I was referring to Wikipedia and not Bleach Wiki. On Wikipedia, such statements have been removed as they are nothing more than fan theory. Thank you for showing me this though. Hopefully, others realize that this just written be otaku who sometimes let their opinions slip into the articles.

Anyway, the subject has nothing really to do with this thread, but it may be continued in Biblioteca (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21081) for those who wish to continue it. :)

agreed, lets leave it like this since no one wants to translate the damn databooks since even "All Colorful Bleach" is also a databook itself. so only when someone dares we'll know the answer, i would get into the thread that you linked, thanks


Ugh. This is the last time im commenting about my mayuri vs ishida comparison. For the record you DIDNT understand, as I already stated the comparison was not meant to make mayuri sound weak, lame, stupid, or anything of the sort it was simply an example of how stylistic matchups have played out in bleach so far. Mayuri WAS defeated defending him by saying he underestimated ishida changes nothing about the fact that he was still defeated. Thats like saying Ali didnt beat foreman because foreman underestimated Ali when they fought in africa, facts are facts. But anyways back to my point at hand the only thing my comparison was meant to do was to show how Mayuri was defeated by ishida yet ishida couldnt defeat the person Mayuri dispatched of which was my only point about styles and matchups in bleach.

Then i dont know What the hell are you talking about!!! XD

Ok ok, what i get is that you are saying that If A can beat B and B can beat C no necessarily A can beat C. If thats the whole point then i dont knwo why you talked in the first place since i said that i do agree with this.

If you read the post that started this in point 4

4) If ichigo beats byakuya, and Byakuya is supposed to be stronger than Hitsu, then Hitsu is weaker than Ichigo [I think you stoped right here].... i hate this kinda of logic since i like to see that if someone can beat an opponent that is strongest than its partner it doesnt mean that he can beat the partner,[then again here is the point i have explained before about A,B & C] but here you have a great gap in powers.

So if im missing something tell me coz you got me really confused

And as for the Mayuri issue, man im not saying like a crazy fan "MAYURI NEVER LOST TO ISHIDA" i accept the fact that he lost but you have to realize the fact that mayuri wasn't fighting at his 100%, was it his own fault? YES it was his own fault for being cocky but if you repeat the fight you can be sure it would turn different.


Why wouldn't Rangiku get Bankai exactly? We know she's been training for it, we know she's probablly among the top 3 most experienced VCs. She's shown to be strong etc.

WHERE!!!! KUBO TOLD YOU THAT? coz i have never seen rangiku training for achieving bankai, OHHH YEAH YEAH I REMEMBER SHE WAS TRAINING WITH ICHIGO, how could i forget that, she even dyed her hair to red and had a bandana..... OH WAIT that was renji!!!, stupid me


Bleach Wiki is flawed I know this well. Even normal Wiki is sometimes bad.

Oh my pardon us we are just some average people, not like you who have talked with kubo tite and know all the facts to tell what is true and what is not from a wiki, now if you permit us your manuscript about all the facts that are true in bleach we would be enlightened.

Ok, just i remind you that i dont get online sundays and mondays so anything that goes to me have to wait til thuesday, see ya

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 18, 2008, 02:55 PM
Rereading and reanalyzing everything, i htink, based on the espadas match-ups, i think they will all defeat their opponents, most people except hitsu fans will agree that he cant beat halibel. i also still beleive, no matter how cool she is or how much i like her, soi cant stand up to baragan (who is far more interesting then the other two), and i beleive stark to be the strongest espada, and thus able to beat shunsui (as i stated before, i think shunsui's tenseness is obvious foreshadowing to his loss/death).

also i dont think soi would necassarily save omaeda, i think she'd say "stay alive until i beat the espada, then maybe ill save you"

but i kinda want the cpt.s to lose, and thus ss loses, and for aizen to move on to creating the oukken in real KK, where he meets up against the vizard :D. somewhere betweeen that, everything in HM will be wrapped up. if the cpt.s win, then bleach would kinda be over, and that would suck.

Onomatopoeia
October 18, 2008, 03:52 PM
Wow I've seen a lot of bad arguements but his one might take the cake.


WTF!!!

I can give you a lot of reasons why she shouldn't

We know she has been training (if you can call that training), training to be a pro wrestler doesn't make you one.

Okay first of all this is a terrible analogy. Rangiku is training to get something, not become something so your analogy falls their. Next this is a Shounen so if a character is training to get something it's important. After that comes the fact that she was talking to her sword which is a good step to Bankai, after that comes materializing, so she's on her way. Next we know she wants to train to beat Gin(she never will but w/e) so why wouldn't she be training for Bankai. She's talking to Haineko because she needs to get Bankai, but Haineko is lazy.

Seriously terrible Analogy.


Second in the first Arrancar Attack, both her and Hitsugaya where getting pounded around, and even if they had their limiters on she would have released her Bankai back then (that if she had it)

Lol She was talking to her sword AFTER the attack. Unless you expect Matsumoto to be able to go back in time then this part sucks. I mean if she pulled out Bankai their then that would be retarded. You really think she it would be logical at all to pull out Bankai then?


Now lets think about the Luppi raid... no she didn't do anything of the sorts, and lets throw the dreaded logic card that kills so many theories and renders them useless.

Your right I'm dreading your use of genius logic to prove what we already know, seconds after her training she was attacked, how in hell would it make any sense for her to pull out Bankai at that time genius?


First Matsumoto has NO and I mean NO reason to hide her Bankai (so she doesn't have it)
Second Matsumoto life in the Gotei 13 is the life of an assistant (with is exactly what most VC are) have you ever seen a flash back of them going to the battle front to kill some Hollows? the 10 division is not the 11, they don't run to kill whenever there is trouble.
So what no squad other then the 11th goes to kill Hollows and never fights? Well okay, you can believe that if you ignore multiple chapters showing other squads fighting. 11th division is the combat division but every other division fights against Hollows. To say that only 11th division fights hollow blatant fanboyism and ignorance of facts.



If every time there is trouble someone is going to pull a "Bankai" out of his ass then we should also expect Omaeda to Go "Bankai" too
and don't get me started about Matsumoto so called Experience...

We have no reason to suspect Omaeda would have a Bankai he doesn't even have a strong shikai, and sure get started on her experience.


Now lets say in the end Matsumoto does have a Bankai... FUCK that is so retarded that if it ends happening I will put Kubo mental stability into question.
He survived Tenshitaen, he can survive anything.


and My point still stands, all the captains need to lose or the whole plot of Bleach will FAIL.

I hope that at least 2 captains die.

Next Bleach Wiki is flawed, give me 30 minutes and I could wreck an Article about any character with half-truths and other stuff. Nor does it give people a really descriptive idea of characters. Normal Wiki is much better then Bleach Wiki.

As for that weird comment about Renji I'm not even sure where your going with that but hey if you think Renji=Rangiku then go ahead.

Josear XIII
October 18, 2008, 03:56 PM
Rereading and reanalyzing everything, i htink, based on the espadas match-ups, i think they will all defeat their opponents, most people except hitsu fans will agree that he cant beat halibel. i also still beleive, no matter how cool she is or how much i like her, soi cant stand up to baragan (who is far more interesting then the other two), and i beleive stark to be the strongest espada, and thus able to beat shunsui (as i stated before, i think shunsui's tenseness is obvious foreshadowing to his loss/death).

also i dont think soi would necassarily save omaeda, i think she'd say "stay alive until i beat the espada, then maybe ill save you"

but i kinda want the cpt.s to lose, and thus ss loses, and for aizen to move on to creating the oukken in real KK, where he meets up against the vizard :D. somewhere betweeen that, everything in HM will be wrapped up. if the cpt.s win, then bleach would kinda be over, and that would suck.


AAhh is still saturday so i can still post, dude i couldnt agree more with you, if Aizen doesnt win, it would mean that we never will get to see THE KING, GOD!!! XD and i really want to see how kirio hikifune was, so the entire division zero, the royal guard, and i think Soifon would say something like, "dumbass, i dont have time to play around, save your own ass" :P that girl is bad

ryanzokuken
October 18, 2008, 04:23 PM
Wow I've seen a lot of bad arguements but his one might take the cake.


Okay first of all this is a terrible analogy. Rangiku is training to get something, not become something so your analogy falls their. Next this is a Shounen so if a character is training to get something it's important. After that comes the fact that she was talking to her sword which is a good step to Bankai, after that comes materializing, so she's on her way. Next we know she wants to train to beat Gin(she never will but w/e) so why wouldn't she be training for Bankai. She's talking to Haineko because she needs to get Bankai, but Haineko is lazy.

Seriously terrible Analogy.


i do agree with your whole post, and i do agree that if any VC level shinigami is line to get bankai next, it would probably be Rangiku.

buuut, i just saw that bit (the part i bolded) and was confused.
we know that? when was that made clear to us?
last i knew, she still had feelings for Gin, just like he does for her, and she would probably not want to have to face him, let alone be the one to kill him.



WHERE!!!! KUBO TOLD YOU THAT? coz i have never seen rangiku training for achieving bankai, OHHH YEAH YEAH I REMEMBER SHE WAS TRAINING WITH ICHIGO, how could i forget that, she even dyed her hair to red and had a bandana..... OH WAIT that was renji!!!, stupid me


she was training for it, along with Yumichika (Hitsu and Ikkaku were there also, but just sort of hanging out, meditating or something), like...right exactly when Luppi, Yammy, Grimm, and Wonderweiss showed up.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 06:47 PM
Ok, Anomatopoeia.

Let me rephrase my whole argument since you seem to have missed the whole point.

First and most important, I never said She WON'T get Bankai, I said She SHOULDN'T.

Also you seem to think that any guy with a Shikai can train and puff Bankai, is not that easy (otherwise every idiot "including Omaeda" should have Bankai already), Ichigo is the lead, and leads can break rules, But Matsumoto is no lead >_>

Lets pin point a little bit about my argument, the test to be a captain is pretty much this: show everyone that you achieved Bankai... and if any f****** Shinigami could do it then the gotei should have 100 divisions and not 13.

Ok, Ok Of all the guys/gals in line Matsu is probably the next one that could achieve it, but that doesn't make it less cheap:darn

I was putting it from all sides, the Ikkaku way (has it but doesn't use it) and the train like a mofo way (with you didn't seem to get)

Now lets talk about the 11 division, with is of course the combat division... I never said other divisions don't go to fight, but if you think about it is simple.

11 division members: a strong Hollow? LETS GO
Others Divisions members: a strong Hollow? the guys of the 11 division are already there, so why bother.

Is a FACT that any time there is a strong enemy the 11 squad goes flying there, most of the time unprepared and without any equipment, but that doesn't stop them from winning most of the time, I am not a fan, but is quite clear that other divisions don't have a 10% of the action the 11 squad gets.

That is why the Divisions send Shinigamis to different towns/cites in the Human world, otherwise they would never fight, that is the motto of the 11 squad.

I mean, I could really see Yumichika pulling a Bankai out of his ass and that would be more or less OK, the 11 squad takes pride in killing and being strong so they all work extra hard to get stronger, meanwhile most of the other divisions get it easy, (besides the 12 division with collects samples for crazy man Mayuri, the 4 division that get picked on a LOT by the guys in the 11 and finally but not lastly the guys in the Detention Unit) .

what else can I say... hmm I think is clear now right?

Matsu having Bankai is possible, I give you that, but that doesn't make it less cheap

Her Experience? Well have we ever seen her anywhere other than the Seireitei and the Rukongai? (and I mean in the past) with leads me to believe that even if she has fought strong hollows (and I believe she haves) she doesn't do it very often.

Also you said it yourself Haineko is LAZY, that could mean that certain Zanpakto just can't achieve Bankai... that would be a lot better than the alternative, with is that every f****** shinigami can go Bankai every time Kubo needs to fill a page. (and that is pretty much what it is right now, but I still can hope... right?)

2 captains dead? keep it real dude... I said I want them all dead, but is just a dream that won't happen, not in Bleach, they will be defeated at best.

ryanzokuken
October 18, 2008, 06:58 PM
I'm positive that there is more to a captain's entrance examination than just showing his/her bankai.

being a captain requires more than bankai. the job requires a certain degree of intelligence, leadership qualities, tact, and overall responsibility, which all of the captains have.

before someone brings up Kenpachi and calls him stupid, be ready with some links and evidence that show him to be so. just because he's crazy and loves fighting and doesn't care how much he gets cut up, doesn't make him dumb. look at his fights, he's a very keen observer and a hell of a smart fighter. he's also a good leader to his men.

^that being said, his way of obtaining captancy is the only way to do so with just raw power or a bankai: killing the previous captain.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 07:24 PM
Errrr, remember way back the SS arc?

It was clearly stated that If several captains see you go Bankai you pass >_> well as long they consider you worthy enough, but that doesn't change the fact that 80% of the test is getting Bankai.

The other ways are to KILL/Defeat the actual captain of a division (with is what Kenpachi did)

Kenpachi is no cautious thinker, he just killed the previous Kenpachi (remember all the captains in the 11 division go by the name of Kenpachi)

Andonan
October 18, 2008, 07:42 PM
I hope we get to see some major Arrancarr death next week.....I'm sick of Fraccion I want some good Espada focus :D

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 08:04 PM
The focus is pointless if they die >_>

Remember Aizen would have to wait from two to three days for another batch of Secuaces O.o

ryanzokuken
October 18, 2008, 08:12 PM
methods of attaining captain position within Soul Society. (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-146.html)
^

nothing pin pointing bankai. it is never stated that having bankai is enough to be captain. it is only stated that in order to be captain, ONE of the requirements is bankai. and the only captain ever to become captain without it is Zaraki.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 08:40 PM
The Taishyu test is exactly that >_> I though you had paid more attention to the SS arc...

The Test is more than Bankai, but is about 80% of the whole test, I think the one that says it is yoruichi.

Only one way to be sure...

*goes to read the whole arc again

Onomatopoeia
October 18, 2008, 08:40 PM
Ok, OAnomatopoeia.

Let me rephrase my whole argument since you seem to have missed the whole point.

First and most important, I never said She WON'T get Bankai, I said She SHOULDN'T.

Also you seem to think that any guy with a Shikai can train and puff Bankai, is not that easy (otherwise every idiot "including Omaeda" should have Bankai already), Ichigo is the lead, and leads can break rules, But Matsumoto is no lead >_>
So... I thought that Omeada who isn't strong at all, has no scene where he's shown training, has never shown the ability to talk to his Zan for extended periods of time, has no reason to train, fought multiple Arrancar etc. could get Bankai where? PUtting Omaeda and Rangiku in the same boat is laughable.


Lets pin point a little bit about my argument, the test to be a captain is pretty much this: show everyone that you achieved Bankai... and if any f****** Shinigami could do it then the gotei should have 100 divisions and not 13.

I could make a very long list of reasons why this is wrong like Rya, but I'll shorten my reply to this.

Renji has Bankai. Their are three empty spots. A war is going on. Why is Renji not a Captain?


Ok, Ok Of all the guys/gals in line Matsu is probably the next one that could achieve it, but that doesn't make it less cheap:darn

I was putting it from all sides, the Ikkaku way (has it but doesn't use it) and the train like a mofo way (with you didn't seem to get)

Now lets talk about the 11 division, with is of course the combat division... I never said other divisions don't go to fight, but if you think about it is simple.

11 division members: a strong Hollow? LETS GO
Others Divisions members: a strong Hollow? the guys of the 11 division are already there, so why bother.

Is a FACT that any time there is a strong enemy the 11 squad goes flying there, most of the time unprepared and without any equipment, but that doesn't stop them from winning most of the time, I am not a fan, but is quite clear that other divisions don't have a 10% of the action the 11 squad gets.

That is why the Divisions send Shinigamis to different towns/cites in the Human world, otherwise they would never fight, that is the motto of the 11 squad.

Kaien Shiba, Rukia. And next their were as many 11th division members as their was 10th division members in the expeditionary force. Not only that but all the forces are training for the war, you can be sure of that. Finally all the divisions fight hollows, that is a fact.


I mean, I could really see Yumichika pulling a Bankai out of his ass and that would be more or less OK, the 11 squad takes pride in killing and being strong so they all work extra hard to get stronger, meanwhile most of the other divisions get it easy, (besides the 12 division with collects samples for crazy man Mayuri, the 4 division that get picked on a LOT by the guys in the 11 and finally but not lastly the guys in the Detention Unit) .
Forcing your Zan to take another form in Shikai despite the fact that they hate it is a good thing since...when?



what else can I say... hmm I think is clear now right?

Matsu having Bankai is possible, I give you that, but that doesn't make it less cheap

Her Experience? Well have we ever seen her anywhere other than the Seireitei and the Rukongai? (and I mean in the past) with leads me to believe that even if she has fought strong hollows (and I believe she haves) she doesn't do it very often. She's gotten like one flashback as a Shinigami what did you expect her fighting 50 hollows? Besides who cares,she's fought Arrancar before. Theirs no way she magicly became a VC and gained a Shikai without lots of training. Thats like saying Unohana doesn't have experience since she's never fought Hollows in her flashbacks.


Also you said it yourself Haineko is LAZY, that could mean that certain Zanpakto just can't achieve Bankai... that would be a lot better than the alternative, with is that every f****** shinigami can go Bankai every time Kubo needs to fill a page. (and that is pretty much what it is right now, but I still can hope... right?)
Isn't Ikkaku's Zan lazy? Anyways that doesn't matter as long as the Shinigami in question has the will, the want, the experience, the etc. they can do it.


2 captains dead? keep it real dude... I said I want them all dead, but is just a dream that won't happen, not in Bleach, they will be defeated at best
I have high hopes for Barragan.

@Rya: Kill is to strong a word but Raniku probablly wants to get stronger because of Gin.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 09:08 PM
Ok, First I call you ONO

less troublesome

Omaeda and Matsumoto are both VC, so yeah I can put them in the same boat, even If matsu has a first class ticked and Omaeda is hiding in the cargo deck, they are still on the same boat.

Renji is not a captain because he sucks >_> and we all can agree on that. ;)

are you trying to see only the parts you want? I never said the other divisions don't fight hollows, I said they don't see a tenth of the action the 11 squad has.:darn


About Yumichika, well when he used his true shikai, everyone was: OMG yumi also has Bankai, at least that's until the very next page in with he says that is his TRUE shikai and not his Bankai, so YEAH, everyone could see Yumi somehow having a Bankai (he has all the reasons to have it and all the reasons to hide it, just like Ikkaku), however, not everyone can see matsumoto having a Bankai (I can see it, but I refuse to believe Kubo will use something SOOOOOOOOOO cheap for her fight) I mean Of all the things he can do (splitting the Fractions in a more even way with the other VCs in there, aka make the other VC's help her in the last second), But noooooo you go RIGHT away and say, Oh my god!!! Matsumoto has a Bankai!!! >_> LAME plot development.:notrust


Yeah, Killing a guy like Nakim sure gave her a lot of experience points, I can already see her gaining a level and learn Bankai, but wait!!! Matsumoto already has 4 moves, you must delete an older move in order to learn Bankai :p


Ikkaku's Zanpakto likes to sleep, but you can see what happens when is fully awake, and you said too little, Haineko is beyond laziness, the thing is like Matsumoto on her I don't want to work days...

Andonan
October 18, 2008, 09:11 PM
Ono is right Bankai is nothing when it comes to being a captain, it is a requirement but it does not make you a captain, or even anything close. You need the power the leadership the determination, the intelligence, every captain we know has filled these categories..... Find me a captain who doesn't I will try my best to point out how and why all our captains have these qualities, I'm far from saying they are foolish, if you know me I hate many captains, especially Yami, but that doesn't mean that they have commendable qualities......

Renji is not a captain for a very simple reason, he is not Byuakua and he will not be one until he feels that he is in every way as strong as his current division captain, Renji has power, but it is not refined and it is not supported with experience or intelligence......

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 09:16 PM
To keep it short, why Renji told Ikkaku to take the test? the MAIN requirement is to have Bankai, the so called leadership and intelligence can go to hell, if the guy has the power and the Bankai...

Leadership? you learn it on the go, and Intelligence is relative and can't be measured by a SAT test :)


By the way... WTF Yammy? the Arrancar?

The guy was killed out of the plot as far as we know

Andonan
October 18, 2008, 09:27 PM
Lol sorry Chaos I meant Yama I always get that wrong *sigh*

Renji told Ikkaku because he admired him (imo) and Renji is hardly someone who should be designating Captain positions.....Urahara had a recommendation from his captain, Kenpachi doesn't strike me as an idiot (as much as he wants too) and I'm fairly sure a lot of people know how strong Ikkaku is, same with Yumichiki, why would they get given one of the most important jobs if they didn't.....Remember how scared everyone was when the realised it was Ikkaku was defeated because they know how strong he was and NO ONE though he would lose, I'm fairly sure one of the others even said "how did he lose" or something close to that.....

Look I said all that simply because all the captains we have seen have had or started there captaincy with these qualities, they didn't "learn as they went" THINK OF URAHARA!!! He was much stronger than his team realized but then of course it dawned on them how great it trully was. The other captains realized this too, that's why he got the position. This isn't a promotion it's a whole other level. No one has replaced those position because no one is strong enough......Even Ichigo isn't captian material

ryanzokuken
October 18, 2008, 09:35 PM
actually i think if Ichigo widened his arsenal a little, like, learn some damn kidos, he could be captain quality. he has the power, and he's shown good leadership skills among his group of friends (Chad, Ishida, Rukia, Renji, etc) and he has very good morals. he's actually a really good man. err...kid. :notrust 15 my ass, listen to his voice and look at his height and muscular development.

one problem, however, would be his willingness to go against Soul Society's rules because they go against what he believes is right.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 09:40 PM
The other 20% of the test is to suck yamamoto (NOT IN THAT WAY!!!, I mean to show him that you will be a sheep and obey every word he says) so he gives you his recommendation (and as far as we know that and the Bankai are the only things you really need)

Lets say the Bankai is 70% of the test and sucking Yamamoto is 20% and the other 5 recommendations of captains are worth 2% each, and guess how much you need to pass? exactly 90%

Tsukisama
October 18, 2008, 10:30 PM
What does the Taishyuu have to do with this chapter? :notrust Please take further discussion on this topic to the hangout thread.


agreed, lets leave it like this since no one wants to translate the damn databooks since even "All Colorful Bleach" is also a databook itself. so only when someone dares we'll know the answer, i would get into the thread that you linked, thanks

Actually, we have some Bleach databook translations listed here at MH (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=67). If there is one that you would like to be translated, you could always try making a request for translators to translate it.

Chaoswind
October 18, 2008, 10:48 PM
and
these links are dead

Ok lets focus on what we want for next chapter

I want the Arrancars to kick some captain ass

The other VC's to help Matsumoto (so she doesn't do anything cheap like go Bankai) and finally and most important, I want the good guys to LOSE!!! >_> and not in the way Ikkaku lost, I mean Utter defeat and SHAME!!!

Andonan
October 18, 2008, 10:54 PM
I want the Fraccion to be destroyed and then I want the Espada to destroy the captains....

But before all that I want an Ichigo fight....When was the last time we saw him acually hit a target with his sword.....50 chapters ago?? 373 or something??

Onomatopoeia
October 18, 2008, 11:44 PM
Ok, First I call you ONO
It's what everyone calls me...


less troublesome

Omaeda and Matsumoto are both VC, so yeah I can put them in the same boat, even If matsu has a first class ticked and Omaeda is hiding in the cargo deck, they are still on the same boat.
I would have thought that I was talking about Power, not in Rank... if so then Yama=Hitsugaya right? And that would mean that everyone who is a VC has a Bankai in VC class.


Renji is not a captain because he sucks >_> and we all can agree on that. ;)
While that may be true it doesn't make it any less problematic that he's not a captain.


are you trying to see only the parts you want? I never said the other divisions don't fight hollows, I said they don't see a tenth of the action the 11 squad has.:darn
And this changest he fundemental part of my arguement... how? They're in a war everyone better be training.


About Yumichika, well when he used his true shikai, everyone was: OMG yumi also has Bankai, at least that's until the very next page in with he says that is his TRUE shikai and not his Bankai, so YEAH, everyone could see Yumi somehow having a Bankai (he has all the reasons to have it and all the reasons to hide it, just like Ikkaku), however, not everyone can see matsumoto having a Bankai (I can see it, but I refuse to believe Kubo will use something SOOOOOOOOOO cheap for her fight) I mean Of all the things he can do (splitting the Fractions in a more even way with the other VCs in there, aka make the other VC's help her in the last second), But noooooo you go RIGHT away and say, Oh my god!!! Matsumoto has a Bankai!!! >_> LAME plot development.:notrust
As for Yumi about one chapter later we learned that he pissed off his Zan. Yes we all thought that Yumi could have Bankai but then we learned more about his Shikai. We didn't have all the info which is why we thought that he had Bankai.



Yeah, Killing a guy like Nakim sure gave her a lot of experience points, I can already see her gaining a level and learn Bankai, but wait!!! Matsumoto already has 4 moves, you must delete an older move in order to learn Bankai :p

While Pokemon is a truly win series I don't see how it has anything to do with this. Still playing along.
Matsumoto has 4 moves which will you delete?
Shikai Breathing
Eating Sleeping

Matsumoto deleted Breathing! Matsumoto uses Bankai. It was ineffective, Matsumoto has Fainted.



Ikkaku's Zanpakto likes to sleep, but you can see what happens when is fully awake, and you said too little, Haineko is beyond laziness, the thing is like Matsumoto on her I don't want to work days...
Ikkakau's Zan is still lazy as hell. If he can do it then Matsumoto should be able to.

Andonan
October 19, 2008, 01:08 AM
Matsumoto could have bankai, she has a genious for a captain, the youngest ever to achieve bankai and become a captain, if anyone could guide her in achieving bankai quickly it would be Hitsuyuga, and he seemed to have faith in her, which he doesn't usually have so she probably has something big up her sleeve

Andonan
October 19, 2008, 04:29 AM
Matsumoto is more than your substandard second rate character, she like Hitsuyuga Ikkaku and Yumchiku have all got plenty of air time, se has a strong relationship with Gin, and her Zan has a very big hax ability, not as good as Byukuya, but generally better than most....

You are belittling her character if you say she is on level with Omeada, Ichigo couldn't one shot her with his fists, trust me, her Zan wouldn't allow it....

Megaman84
October 19, 2008, 06:41 AM
Re Matsumoto. I don't think it is unrealistic for her to have achieved bankai. Until now we have actually seen quite little of her in battle. Considering Hitsugaya is quite young, and one would assume inexperienced as a captain, it would make sense for his VC to be quite powerful.


This could just be brought on by my purchase of The Watchmen though. God, it definitely puts the smack-down on most comics I've read. I cannot wait until the film version of this comes out. Even the trailer makes me wee a little every time i watch it.

P.S I tell you what, catching up on the forum this morning i have had to read an absolute load of rubbish from a few members posting on here. Mostly baseless un-referenced, non-sensical arguements.

Chaoswind
October 19, 2008, 12:52 PM
yeah, matsumoto does have a relationship with Gin, and has gotten plenty of attention, but that doesn't change the fact that If she is killed in this fight, not much would change, so her plot relevance as a character is pretty low... but yes Omaeda plot relevance is non existant >_>

and I am just asking you to think about it, to ask yourself this question "WHAT IF" Matsumoto dies.
Tell me what kind of answer your brain gave you?
Mine doesn't say much on her defense, so I think she doesn't have much plot relevance at the moment.

OK, I am going to take it easy and walk away of the pro matsumoto crew.

Now I am going to ask another question, what would you do in Kubo's place? IE how would you write this arc?

I would do this

Stop with the pointless and VERY retarded one on one fights, there are more good guys in there, if they don't use their numerical advantage is pretty pointless

Soi Fon kills the Sabertooth
Barragan is going to attack her, but Old Yama gets in the way

Barragan vs Yamamoto

Hitsugaya is getting pounded by Halibel (a vastrolord Arrancar that should be MUCH stronger than a common captain) so Soi Fon goes to help him

Hitsugaya/Soi Fon vs Halibel

Stark knocks Shunsui with the First blow

Ukitake and Komamura attack Stark at the same time, Nanao goes to help Shunsui, but he tells her he is fine and point to Matsumoto having a hard time with the 3 Arrancars, so Nanao goes to help... Shunsui takes his second breath and goes to help Ukitake and Komamura

Ukitake/Shunsui/Komamura vs Stark

Matsumoto/Nanao vs Apache/Mila-Rose/Sun-Sun

as the fight gets more interesting, the captains start to make some progress and seem about to put the Arrancars in tight positions, BUT

All the fighting and HUGE Reiatsu end's summoning a group of hungry Vastrolordes

with their appearance the dimensional barrier and the fake Karakura start to crumple (too many strong people in a single place)

and then Aizen comes out of the fire and says: All part of the plan

Now the fight is on Aizen's side and the odds say the captains will lose


PS: I am talking about 7 Vastrolordes, that if you want a number >_>

now what would you do if you could write bleach?

YJiang
October 19, 2008, 02:03 PM
Nanao is still in Soul Society.

akatsuki27
October 19, 2008, 02:10 PM
^ its obvious where you are going with this....since those vastrolordes show up, the vaizards will join SS to even it up right???....well, its obvious that IF the vaizards join this fight, whoever they side with will be at a HUGE advantage, so having vastrolordes there will automatically put the vaizards in SS side...i dont like that though i want them to have their own agenda

Chaoswind
October 19, 2008, 02:11 PM
She is? pfff I would have swear I saw her...

NVM that part, but there is still plenty of people to help matsumoto (I just wanted to see that useless Nanao doing something for a change, IE the so mysterious book related Shikai >_>)

akatsuki27 you forgot a very important point... when I write, I kill characters (not in the way Gantz kill its characters, but you can expect some deads) and yeah I am writing a book at the moment >_>

a writer should have all the doors and windows open (at least that's my style), so no one knows what to expect in the next page, the vizards could appear or the SS guys could be gang raped and killed, at least you will be dying to know, what ends up happening

Hockeychaoz
October 19, 2008, 04:40 PM
I still stand strong on my first prediction for all this:

The captains will just squeeze a win out over the Espada, and will be exhausted, with the exception of Yama, who will be ready for more.

Then we're going to see all the captains looking down on the corpses of the Espada and we'll see their numbers. 8,9,10.

Then Aizen will say that he was getting rid of the current Espada to make room for the Vastrolordes.

Last note:

I have a feeling that GJ is going to be a vastro by eating Ulqs mask or something. Or something along those lines will happen, some sort of hollow merger.

Onomatopoeia
October 19, 2008, 04:56 PM
Seems like you only see what you want to see >_>

In regards to Yamamoto being Equal to hitsugaya, even if both of them command a division, Yamamoto is the General commander of the Gotei 13, so Hitsugaya is not even CLOSE.
Well they're both captains so yes they're close. Not only that but Rank has fucking nothing to do with this arguement. Who gives a shit about rank I only care about power.


Lets keep comparing, Is Hitsugaya Equal to Soi Fon? NO
Is Hitsugaya Equal to Mayuri? NO
Is Hitsugaya Equal to Kenpachi? NO
Is hitsugaya Equal to Unohana? NO

All of the Captains above have special responsibilities that we have not seem on the rest... and probably all the divisions have a special responsibility, but until Kubo tells WTF the 10 division does, Hitsugaya is a low class captain, !yet still a captain!
So what now Shunsui is a low class captain? Great definition there. Truly you win the thread.So that means Hitsugaya has to be equal to Shunsui. Again good sir you win this thread.


On the other hand Omaeda and Matsumoto are almost Equal (in rank) Matsu has an edge in getting the attention of the Male Shinigamis and everyone thinks Omaeda is a dick, so any VC is over Omaeda, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still equal in rank, so my point still stands >_>
Proof that Omaeda is strong at all. Not only that but Hitsugaya and Byakuya both equal in rank by your definition. So Hitsugaya=Byakuya right? Since they both have an equal ranking as they are both Captains. But Hitsugaya<<<Byakuya in power shown thus far, which means we have a mathametical paradox. But if we go by something that makes sense(in other words power) it all makes sense. Thus your Omaeda point is shredded.



Ok lets talk about Renji >_> ALL and I MEAN ALL the Bankai we have seem have one, two or even Three special Abilities or Attacks, but the only thing that Renji has is a mini Zero beam that hardly ever does damage to anyone since they always dodge (no speed bonus, no power bonus, just a lame zero) >_>, so yeah HE SUCKS.
Mayuri, Tousen, Ikkaku. Renji ties with them. So by your definition they suck. Again truly amazing.



Ok so you say everyone should be training right? I hope you don't smoke weed... If ALL of them train, then who the fuck will notice when the enemy attacks? Or if you are in a war you are going to spend all your bullets improving your aim?, in a war everyone is in full alert and ready to move at the slightest sign of trouble, no one practices how to shot in the middle of the battlefield.

Only a few Elites (or better say mommy/daddy boys/girls are allowed to do uncharacteristic things in a war, and in this case those would be Ikkaku, Yumichika and Matsumoto, when they took those 5 minutes to stare to their swords)

You may say that is not what you mean, but you are the one that threw the WAR card

First of all you fail to understand Hyperbole.

Second

Who is in the war right now? Is it high ranking members only? Yes? Since Aizen didn't attack SS during the Hueco Mundo Arc we know that their was no reason for said high rankers to go out and fight, thus Lower ranked Shinigami probablly did all that you mentioned. And since the enemy didn't attack well figure it out from their.

As of the war they're most important duty was to train, if fighting had to do with it then they went out to fight.


In regards to Yumichika:
his Zanpakto is not pissed or anything like that, is ANNOYED at best, and what is the Zan going to do? nothing, only wait until Yumichika says those lovely words that make her soooooo happy.
So what despite the fact that Yumi said straight out said that his Shikai hated it, that is has been said multiple times that you have to be perfectly in sync with your Zan(or the equivalnce of that) to get Bankai etc. and despite all this you still think Yumi could get Bankai before Matsumoto? First Yumi has to allow his Shikai to shine in front of everyone before even considering Bankai. Thus unless some shocking truth about Matsumoto's Shikai comes to light she is far closer to Bankai then Yumi ever will be.


YOU FAIL!!!
Pokemon Green/Blue/Red where WIN
Pokemon Yellow (SUCKED)
Pokemon Gold/Silver where kind of OK, it was a clone, but at least the plot was a little decent.
Gold and Silver were good as is Green/Blue/Red as is Diamond and Pearl. Everything else is true. Not only that but read the Manga of Pokemon. That thing is bloody. Pokemon die like every chapter.



Everything after that is just a CLONE with transsexual Pokemon >_>

and the guy from VGcats is going to sue you for stealing his joke, but yours fails because is not as funny as his >_>

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=242
Lol if you couldn't find out where I was getting that joke, then lol.



and Ikkaku's Zan likes to sleep, that is what he says...

Stop trying to put Matsumoto in some kind of cloud, she is not THAT important as a character in Bleach, Ikkaku has more plot relevance than her... sadly her cleavage did earn her some blind fan's, but no writer should care about the feelings of Superficial fans.

I mean lets see what would happen if the 3 Arrancar Girls Kill her... The cold kid would show some emotion, and then... and then?


anyway is TOOO late and I have to sleep... nighty
Your ignorance in this post is shocking, Lets say Ikkaku had died defending the pillar, what then? Kommamaru comes in and stops it from getting destroyed. Okay so that makes him useless(heck the entire F4 arc was pointless to the plot).

If Matsumoto dies then guess who gets effected? Gin! And Gin development>>>>Ikkaku as a whole. So Matsumoto is more important to the plot. Sorry Ikkaku fans but he brought it up.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 19, 2008, 07:17 PM
OK, ono,first off, i wanna say that i find you to be one of the liveliest posters in these threads, and admire the fact that you constantly debate and say your opinion, despite the fact that i tend to disagree with what you say :p. just know that im not trying to put you downor naything like that...however, sometimes u should let some things go (like replying to the pokemon thing...really), and dont quote people so much, it totally interrupts your already overly-long posts and makes them almost unreadable (im being generous by putting almost). just put their entire quote at the top and be done with it, and try to be a lil more efficient with the number of words you use. only sayin this cuz you have a habit of doing this,which ur prolly already aware of. Choaswind this applies a lil to you too. once again, im not tryin to insult anybody, jus saying that most people like to read posts that are short and sweet.

anyways, on to bleach. the idea of matsu dying is intruiging in terms of gin development, which would be very interesting, however, seeing as i like the character, i dont want her to die just yet, and their is much more potential gin development if she lives, but it wouldnt be a horrible move by kubo if she is killed. Byakuya on the other hand, he's gotta die :p. omaeda's death, once again pointless as he is, so why bother killing him off (also can argue why bother letting him live, but wutever).

side note, once we get to HM, renji and chad gotta do sumthing, anything, just WIN. i dont think either of them have a single (significant, meaning not regular hollows) win under their belt, except chads owning of 107. either way, that makes their combined avg. wins between them to, ummm, 0.5,...yeah, 0.5 over, like 10. i want rukia to lose horribly to rudobone, then chad and sado single handedly take on the army that is the exequias (then get beaten by ludo himself :p)

ryanzokuken
October 19, 2008, 07:24 PM
i think it would be sweet if later on, Rangiku and Hitsu both took on Gin, and in the heat of battle, Rangiku gets a clean shot, but hesitates and doesn't take it, becuase she doesn't want to kill Gin. then Gin takes that generosity and uses it to either
A) kill Hitsugaya in a moment of shock and disbelief, having left himself open, which then engrages Rangiku.
or
B) gets over his feelings and kills Rangiku while she's open after hesitating, showing himself to be a true, GOOD villain. and then of course Hitsugaya would have to tweak out.

iorinyc
October 19, 2008, 08:10 PM
By-Ryanzokuken

"3. Urahara IS on par with Aizen, or at the very least, the one person closest to him/with the best chance of fighting equally with him."

Dude, I totally agree with you here. That's the reason why Kubo haven't shown any Urahara vs Aizen fight. He's letting Aizen get to Urahara's level or higher via the use of hogokyou.

Hockeychaoz
October 19, 2008, 08:18 PM
Someone said this a while back but I still think its a sweet idea, no matter how unlikely it is.

Espada are beaten and the only captain really ready to keep fighting is Yama. Aizen and co excape the fire and start to fight Yama. Tousen uses bankai on Yama,, and Gin tries to use his shikai on Yama to get him while he's blind. Yama just catchs the blade, and twists Gin around the circle, cutting Tousen's bankai and then proceeds to attack them both.

Then we see Yama vs Aizen and Tousen and Gun vs weakened captains or Vizards.

Andonan
October 19, 2008, 11:47 PM
So what are people's predictions as to who was the former captain of the 10th squad that was killed just before the gaiden arc? I was thinking either Ichigo's dad or some one else??

Hockeychaoz
October 20, 2008, 12:29 AM
So what are people's predictions as to who was the former captain of the 10th squad that was killed just before the gaiden arc? I was thinking either Ichigo's dad or some one else??

This will be an important fact later on in the series, I'm convinced of it.
The popular choice is that Isshin was the previous Kenpachi, which explains Ichigo's monster strength.


As for next chapter:

Well, it seems that we might see the 1-3 fights before we see the 4th Espada fight. O_o kinda a weird way to do it, but whatever I suppose. If we actually see 1-3 fall and then it cuts to Ichigo vs Ulq, I'm pretty sure we're going to see Ulq be more than meets the eye. A.k.a. 4th might not be entirely accurate.

I want to see Soi Fon's bankai, and I had a theory about it.
So far, the bankai we've seen, are either more elaborate versions of their shikai, or a upgrade from their shikai.

Mayuri's baby sword which paralyzes to a big baby that kills.
Renji's small (comparitively) sword to his huge bankai. Roughly the same idea, a whip.
Byakuya's 1000 blades upgrades to a million blades.
Komamaru summons a part of the body, then summons the whole thing for bankai.

I'm thinking that we're going to see Soi Fon's bankai use its shikai skill still. When the shikai hits you, it makes a butterfly mark. If she hits twice, you die. I figure that if you have a few butterfly marks on you and she goes bankai, she can injure those spots of you at will or something. Like, they get cut or something.

It's going to be interesting to see where Kubo takes her with Bankai because her shikai is so rigged as is. 2 hit KO? Bankai = 1 hit? Combined with her (almost) unmatched speed? She might beat Aizen for most rigged release.
[hr]

No, not Ichigo' s dad, he' s alive. :p I had the impression that he' s a hitherto unknown character.

Well, it was never said that Zaraki killed the captain, only beat him. After being beaten, he might have been exiled or left or something. Would be a nice extra good guy to have, a second Kenpachi.

Cyanilurus
October 20, 2008, 12:35 AM
Ah... really? Sorry, I didn' t read it properly then... and just assumed Kenpachi would have killed him anyway.

For next chapter I see KKT fights too... But we might cut back in the middle of the fights to HM, no? I wonder if we get to see the party fighting against the Esequias, or we just get a final scene.

Hockeychaoz
October 20, 2008, 12:57 AM
Ah... really? Sorry, I didn' t read it properly then... and just assumed Kenpachi would have killed him anyway.

For next chapter I see KKT fights too... But we might cut back in the middle of the fights to HM, no? I wonder if we get to see the party fighting against the Esequias, or we just get a final scene.

Maybe what I read was a mistranslation. That's the problem with manga; a lot of people can sub the same sentence differently, and sometimes it's an important sentence. (As in right now) So lets just say we're both right right now, unless someone can prove either side correct.

As far as more KKT fights go, I'm going to judge myself by a week to week basis. The last page of the last chapter was Soi Fon's shikai. Boring much? That'd be a god awful transition to the HM fights. I'm thinking that Kubo might do a transition after we see all captains in bankai and ready to fight.

As lame as it sounds, I can see these fights being skipped too. BUT! If the fights are skipped, that means that the captains have to lose. LOL, there'd be turmoil if there was a cut, the fights happened unseen, and when we come back, the captains are just like.. "Well that was easy."

Chaoswind
October 20, 2008, 02:30 AM
Well, I will stop >_> we can keep going on PM's if you like

and this is the only thing I will say


Your argument in this post is this, All Bankai's have multiple abilities, Renji's only has one so he sucks. Your argument in the newest one, is that Renji would lose to all the above mentioned people so he sucks. This is an obvious fundementel difference between posts. The reason for it is obvious, I pointed out multiple flaws in your definition of "Why Renji Sucks"(AKA naming people who go under your obviously flawed definition) realizing this you quickly changed your argument into something that actually makes sense. The only problem with this is that you stopped arguing your point. In a debate this is what is known as a concession, further posts on the matter can be continued but at this time arguing it would be pointless because of said concession.


(no speed bonus, no power bonus, just a lame zero)

I didn't say he sucked because he only had one ability (even though you can interpret it like that, sorry I wasn't clear enough), I said he sucked because his only ability was a Zero like beam (pretty lame one imo) and he doesn't have ANY skills to back himself >_>

Renji:
Bankai: Zero like Beam, and if the links are broken it can reform again... WOW just WOW, how useful is that in a fight? (not to mention that you can clearly see when he is charging the beam, so if anyone gets hit by it is because they wanted to get hit)
Kidou: All of them just blow on his face (can sometimes be useful)
Anything else? a brain perhaps? no he also lacks in that department (can be used as an advantage sometimes)

*-

Aizen defeated Hitsugaya fair and square, but that was hardly a fight (ended in a second) and Hitsugaya lost miserably

Aizen defeated Komamura with one of the strongest Kidous (Not to mention that Komamura was already tired, and that also ended in a second)

Aizen defeated an already tired Ichigo (didn't even last a second)

can you calculate Aizen's power with just that? the only thing you could say is:

Aizen was stronger than Hitsugaya? YES
Aizen was stronger than Komamura? YES
Aizen was stronger than Ichigo? YES

anything more than that is pure speculation.

On the other hand you can't say much about Urahara

The only thing we know for sure is that he was a Captain and was feared and respected as one, the chances of him being very powerful are quite big, but we don't have NUMBERS or FACTS, just speculation and "one second" fights

Cyanilurus
October 20, 2008, 02:41 AM
As far as more KKT fights go, I'm going to judge myself by a week to week basis. The last page of the last chapter was Soi Fon's shikai. Boring much? That'd be a god awful transition to the HM fights. I'm thinking that Kubo might do a transition after we see all captains in bankai and ready to fight.


Well, I didn' t mean he would switch right now; I was thinking about 2-3 chapters, though the pace at we' re going it might even be 10. I was just wondering if he will cut the KKT fight in the middle to switch or if he would rather finish them all beore switching.

And even though I don' t mind if he jumps around the places a bit, it would be rather dull if he left out something as important as the captain' s fight... Nah, not happening. ^_^

Aonsaithya
October 20, 2008, 03:32 AM
Oh u guise.
End your debate via PMs, then post us the results. We can't be arsed to read 3-page long posts and such.

As to contribute to this thread, I just noticed something. Sun-Sun has not shown her hands, instead always keeps them covered. Perhaps there is a surprise in there, maybe her hands aren't so normal after all? Same might go for Halibel. Some writers just like freaking out the readers by giving the hot girl the mouth of an octopus.

ConanDect
October 20, 2008, 04:50 AM
"3. Urahara IS on par with Aizen, or at the very least, the one person closest to him/with the best chance of fighting equally with him."

This I disagree with. The evidence so far have implied that Urahara isn't close to Aizen.

Aizen:
-By awakening the Hyougoku, he proved that he has AT LEAST twice the reiatsu of an average captain.
-Grimmjow is stronger then the average captain since bankai Ichigo (Ichigo already had captain power in shikai and he got super speed from bankai) couldn't even do much to Grimmjow unreleased. The power gap between Aizen and Grimmjow is so significant that only Aizen's reiatsu is need to defeat Grimmjow. That means Aizen is significantly stronger than the "twice the power of average captain" line.

Urahara:
-Was a third seat before he became captain. Therefore, he had the power/strength/fighting ability of a third seat.
-Used his 3-day method to gain bankai, thus becoming captain. Seeing as you don't have a power increase from the 3-day method (it's implied that the increase in strength came from the 10 years required training to get bankai), Urahara is effectively a 3rd seat with bankai. He's basically Ikkaku.
-The only thing separating him from Ikkaku is his mind. In terms of power, because of what we learned in the Gaiden chapters, he's probably not too far above Ikkaku. However, his mind makes up for it. That comes in the form of his inventions.

From what I see here, Aizen clearly has Urahara beat in power. I'm not even sure if Urahara should even be able to cut Aizen. Maybe Urahara has some inventions, but unless Urahara is dealing with poison like Mayuri, what can he possibly do? I hope he doesn't come in with some invention that's "the perfect counter to Aizen's shikai," because that would be cheap. But then again, he still needs a hax ability to get by the significant difference in power.

metrite
October 20, 2008, 05:43 AM
Aizen:
-By awakening the Hyougoku, he proved that he has AT LEAST twice the reiatsu of an average captain.

While the fact that Aizen awakened the hougyoku does imply that he has twice the captains reiatsu, it does not necessarily mean he has twice the captains reiatsu himself.
What if he used part of Tousen's or Gin's reiatsu?

As for the next chapter, I'm sincerely rooting for a quick death of the sabretooth arrancar, and the death of the rest of the fraccions for that matter.
Hardly anyone is interested in more cannon fodder fights, bring out the espada vs. captains already!

Hockeychaoz
October 20, 2008, 05:53 AM
While the fact that Aizen awakened the hougyoku does imply that he has twice the captains reiatsu, it does not necessarily mean he has twice the captains reiatsu himself.
What if he used part of Tousen's or Gin's reiatsu?



...I dont think reiatsu is something you can just give to people?
And I think Aizen himself has twice the reiatsu because he stopped GJ in his tracks with just his reiatsu, so he's got plenty of it.

akatsuki27
October 20, 2008, 09:21 AM
"3. Urahara IS on par with Aizen, or at the very least, the one person closest to him/with the best chance of fighting equally with him."

This I disagree with. The evidence so far have implied that Urahara isn't close to Aizen.

Aizen:
-By awakening the Hyougoku, he proved that he has AT LEAST twice the reiatsu of an average captain.
-Grimmjow is stronger then the average captain since bankai Ichigo (Ichigo already had captain power in shikai and he got super speed from bankai) couldn't even do much to Grimmjow unreleased. The power gap between Aizen and Grimmjow is so significant that only Aizen's reiatsu is need to defeat Grimmjow. That means Aizen is significantly stronger than the "twice the power of average captain" line.

Urahara:
-Was a third seat before he became captain. Therefore, he had the power/strength/fighting ability of a third seat.
-Used his 3-day method to gain bankai, thus becoming captain. Seeing as you don't have a power increase from the 3-day method (it's implied that the increase in strength came from the 10 years required training to get bankai), Urahara is effectively a 3rd seat with bankai. He's basically Ikkaku.
-The only thing separating him from Ikkaku is his mind. In terms of power, because of what we learned in the Gaiden chapters, he's probably not too far above Ikkaku. However, his mind makes up for it. That comes in the form of his inventions.

From what I see here, Aizen clearly has Urahara beat in power. I'm not even sure if Urahara should even be able to cut Aizen. Maybe Urahara has some inventions, but unless Urahara is dealing with poison like Mayuri, what can he possibly do? I hope he doesn't come in with some invention that's "the perfect counter to Aizen's shikai," because that would be cheap. But then again, he still needs a hax ability to get by the significant difference in power.

while i agree that aizen and all his reiatsu plus his ridiculous shikai is stronger than urahara, it's arguable how far apart they are...im not saying they are neck and neck but the way you described him is way off...not too far from ikkaku?? are you serious?? just cause he went from a third seat to captain says absolutely nothing...kenpachi went from no seat to captain, are you going to argue about his strength??

listen, the only reason he was third seat is because he was in charge of the prison, the liuetenant has to be with the captain almost always...so if youre in charge of the prison and HAVE to be INSIDE the prison most of the time, why would he be promoted to lieutenant if there was no one better than urahara for the warden job?? and about his three-day bankai thing, you have to be powerful to beat your sword's spirit into submission and in a period of three days no less is no small feat by the least...ikkaku? really?? im done...

ConanDect
October 20, 2008, 10:05 AM
while i agree that aizen and all his reiatsu plus his ridiculous shikai is stronger than urahara, it's arguable how far apart they are...im not saying they are neck and neck but the way you described him is way off...not too far from ikkaku?? are you serious?? just cause he went from a third seat to captain says absolutely nothing...kenpachi went from no seat to captain, are you going to argue about his strength??

listen, the only reason he was third seat is because he was in charge of the prison, the liuetenant has to be with the captain almost always...so if youre in charge of the prison and HAVE to be INSIDE the prison most of the time, why would he be promoted to lieutenant if there was no one better than urahara for the warden job?? and about his three-day bankai thing, you have to be powerful to beat your sword's spirit into submission and in a period of three days no less is no small feat by the least...ikkaku? really?? im done...

Your argument is heavily flawed. It was implied that Kenpachi came into SS, challenged the former 11th division captain and won. He used his strength to win, thus he had the strength of a captain.

Urahara on the other hand was held at 3rd seat. Furthermore, Yoruichi was that division's captain so it's expected that she may give Urahara some leeway and make him VC if he was close in power to teh 2nd division VC. But no, he was still 3rd seat so he has 3rd seat power.

Your comparison to Kenpachi would make sense if Kenpachi was first held as a seated officer but that's not the case, so your comparison does not make sense.

No where is it stated that he had to be third seat because he was in charge of the Maggot's Nest. That's not even remotely implied anywhere in the manga. Renji is Byakuya's VC but Renji goes off on his own all the time. Another of your arguments flawed.

Showing dominance over your zan doesn't mean you're very strong. I mean their zan are a part of them, after all. Ichigo got bankai and had no increase in strength. They said it takes about 10 years of training to reach bankai and you'd increase your power 5-10 fold. That heavily implies that the years of training is what increases the power. Ichigo not having a strength boost further strengthens that point.

3rd Seat + Bankai = Urahara and Ikkaku. That's using logic and what is heavily implied and stated in the manga. Unlike you, I'm using reasoning instead of "OMG! HE'S SO COOL AND I LIKE HIM SO HE MUST BE STRONG" logic. Furthermore, I said Urahara's brain is what sets him apart from Ikkaku, but power-wise he should not be far off. See that? That's strong reasoning again. Something you fail to have in your post.

Yes, you are done.

darkband
October 20, 2008, 10:24 AM
Well, it was never said that Zaraki killed the captain, only beat him. After being beaten, he might have been exiled or left or something. Would be a nice extra good guy to have, a second Kenpachi.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/146/02/

Tousen says here that he killed the previous Kenpachi.

Anyway, I think that the fight order will be Soi Fong, Omaeda, Matsumoto, then skip to Ichigo. With Soi Fong, the fraccion will release, then Soi Fong will just annihilate sabertooth. Then Omaeda will lose and have to be saved by someone just cuz he's an idiot. Then Matsumoto will pull off a hard victory, maybe getting help from someone. Then to Ichigo.

Eye of the tiger
October 20, 2008, 11:01 AM
"3. Urahara IS on par with Aizen, or at the very least, the one person closest to him/with the best chance of fighting equally with him."

This I disagree with. The evidence so far have implied that Urahara isn't close to Aizen.

Aizen:
-By awakening the Hyougoku, he proved that he has AT LEAST twice the reiatsu of an average captain.
-Grimmjow is stronger then the average captain since bankai Ichigo (Ichigo already had captain power in shikai and he got super speed from bankai) couldn't even do much to Grimmjow unreleased. The power gap between Aizen and Grimmjow is so significant that only Aizen's reiatsu is need to defeat Grimmjow. That means Aizen is significantly stronger than the "twice the power of average captain" line.

Urahara:
-Was a third seat before he became captain. Therefore, he had the power/strength/fighting ability of a third seat.
-Used his 3-day method to gain bankai, thus becoming captain. Seeing as you don't have a power increase from the 3-day method (it's implied that the increase in strength came from the 10 years required training to get bankai), Urahara is effectively a 3rd seat with bankai. He's basically Ikkaku.
-The only thing separating him from Ikkaku is his mind. In terms of power, because of what we learned in the Gaiden chapters, he's probably not too far above Ikkaku. However, his mind makes up for it. That comes in the form of his inventions.

From what I see here, Aizen clearly has Urahara beat in power. I'm not even sure if Urahara should even be able to cut Aizen. Maybe Urahara has some inventions, but unless Urahara is dealing with poison like Mayuri, what can he possibly do? I hope he doesn't come in with some invention that's "the perfect counter to Aizen's shikai," because that would be cheap. But then again, he still needs a hax ability to get by the significant difference in power.

There's evidence in favour of Urahara as well. Aizen's stronger than Urahara, but not by much. Urahara=Ikkaku.. thats ridiculous. Urahara stopped Yammi's bara like a fly.. even seated caps don't have it that easy. Urahara was asked to be captain by Yoruichi, he was content just experimenting! But he had the power, skills, reiatsu and intellect to be a captain and was hence chosen. It does not by any means show that he's only a 3rd seat!! Besides, someone who INVENTED beating your zanpaktou to submission is someone already above captain level! He does have a huge reiatsu of his own as well.. look how he toyed with Luppi. And Aizen has the most hax shikai in bleachworld.. so anything Urahara comes up with, can't be that bad. But yes, given how smart and knowledgeable Urahara is, I would look forward to him inventing the perfect foil for Aizen. But boy you seem to be a Aizen fanboy at 3times reiatsu!!!!

akatsuki27
October 20, 2008, 11:02 AM
Your argument is heavily flawed. It was implied that Kenpachi came into SS, challenged the former 11th division captain and won. He used his strength to win, thus he had the strength of a captain.

Urahara on the other hand was held at 3rd seat. Furthermore, Yoruichi was that division's captain so it's expected that she may give Urahara some leeway and make him VC if he was close in power to teh 2nd division VC. But no, he was still 3rd seat so he has 3rd seat power.

Your comparison to Kenpachi would make sense if Kenpachi was first held as a seated officer but that's not the case, so your comparison does not make sense.

No where is it stated that he had to be third seat because he was in charge of the Maggot's Nest. That's not even remotely implied anywhere in the manga. Renji is Byakuya's VC but Renji goes off on his own all the time. Another of your arguments flawed.

Showing dominance over your zan doesn't mean you're very strong. I mean their zan are a part of them, after all. Ichigo got bankai and had no increase in strength. They said it takes about 10 years of training to reach bankai and you'd increase your power 5-10 fold. That heavily implies that the years of training is what increases the power. Ichigo not having a strength boost further strengthens that point.

3rd Seat + Bankai = Urahara and Ikkaku. That's using logic and what is heavily implied and stated in the manga. Unlike you, I'm using reasoning instead of "OMG! HE'S SO COOL AND I LIKE HIM SO HE MUST BE STRONG" logic. Furthermore, I said Urahara's brain is what sets him apart from Ikkaku, but power-wise he should not be far off. See that? That's strong reasoning again. Something you fail to have in your post.

Yes, you are done.

there's no reasoning in assumptions, so your "logic" is non existant...

ichigo's reaitsu doesnt increase much when he did the bankai to test so you ASSUME the same happened for urahara

about the kenpachi, you fail to see my point....my POINT is you dont need to be a captain to have the power of a captain....if no vacancies ever came up in the captains seat than no one else will be captain but that in NO WAY says that there arent captain worthy shinigami around....

yumichika is a 5th seat, by your "logic" he's comparable in strength to every other 5th seat...please...just cause you have a certain seat doesnt mean you are weaker/stronger than someone else...rukia doesnt even have a seat in the 13th squad....by your "logic", any seated officer in every other division is stronger than her

just cause urahara and ikkaku had the same rank, AT ONE POINT, mind you...you ASSUME they are near the same power level

also, it was stated by byakuya that you need 5-10 years to master all forms of your bankai not to achieve bankai so dont twist the manga words to suit your needs

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.03/16/

^ can ikkaku do that??? i dont think so...ikkaku has NOT mastered any of the four styles of fighting and that link you can already see urahara has one of the four down....

this isnt some fanboy crap, so please, spare me those lines about OMG he's cool just to make your argument stronger by dissing me....it just makes you look stupid cause you cant come up with enough evidence to support your points so you resort to insults....learn to argue...and you're right, i am done with your half-assed argument

ryanzokuken
October 20, 2008, 11:16 AM
there's no reasoning in assumptions, so your "logic" is non existant...

ichigo's reaitsu doesnt increase much when he did the bankai to test so you ASSUME the same happened for urahara

about the kenpachi, you fail to see my point....my POINT is you dont need to be a captain to have the power of a captain....if no vacancies ever came up in the captains seat than no one else will be captain but that in NO WAY says that there arent captain worthy shinigami around....

yumichika is a 5th seat, by your "logic" he's comparable in strength to every other 5th seat...please...just cause you have a certain seat doesnt mean you are weaker/stronger than someone else...rukia doesnt even have a seat in the 13th squad....by your "logic", any seated officer in every other division is stronger than her

just cause urahara and ikkaku had the same rank, AT ONE POINT, mind you...you ASSUME they are near the same power level

also, it was stated by byakuya that you need 5-10 years to master all forms of your bankai not to achieve bankai so dont twist the manga words to suit your needs

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.03/16/

^ can ikkaku do that??? i dont think so...ikkaku has NOT mastered any of the four styles of fighting and that link you can already see urahara has one of the four down....

this isnt some fanboy crap, so please, spare me those lines about OMG he's cool just to make your argument stronger by dissing me....it just makes you look stupid cause you cant come up with enough evidence to support your points so you resort to insults....learn to argue...and you're right, i am done with your half-assed argument

thank you.

and let me just add, there is more to it than just their power. i wouldn't say Urahara is as powerful as Aizen. but that doesn't mean he can't match him in a fight. and even if he CAN'T match Aizen, what my signature says in the first place is that he is the closest to doing so than anyone else. he's got a better chance than Yama or Shinji, i would say. and i would call both of them more powerful than Urahara.

Chaoswind
October 20, 2008, 11:53 AM
A better chance than Shinji!!!!

OK that really does it, but first lets say a few things


YES, the third seat is in charge of the prison meanwhile the VC is in charge of being the BITCH of the 2 division captain, or are you willing to say that the 3 seat in the 2 division (the badass head slicing ninja) is weaker than Omaeda?

remember that thanks to yoruichi the 2 division has a very different setting, (VC, 3 seat, 4 seat, 5 seat) all these officers are VC material (all of them) that was clearly said in the manga, and the only reason why Urahara was a third seat was because he was in charge of the prison (not because he was weaker than Soi Fon).

And Urahara has a better shot with Aizen than YAMAMOTO or SHINJI?

Please don't say things that may get some people pissed...

THERE IS NO WAY, we can be sure of that, I mean Urahara has a few tricks under his shelves, however, saying that Yamamoto and Shinji are weaker than him can be arged in a lots of ways.

Shinji could beat GJ with just his mask, meanwhile Ichigo had his Bankai + Mask and that says a lot, and old yamamoto is yamamoto...

in the end we don't have numbers or facts, so you can't be running around saying that Urahara is stronger than Old Yamamoto or Shinji.

akatsuki27
October 20, 2008, 12:02 PM
remember that thanks to yoruichi the 2 division has a very different setting, (VC, 3 seat, 4 seat, 5 seat) all these officers are VC material (all of them) that was clearly said in the manga, and the only reason why Urahara was a third seat was because he was in charge of the prison (not because he was weaker than Soi Fon).

thank you....there were five people that had different duties in the 2nd division which means all were capable....but even then, some people just dont see the truth cause they want to argue their point to the death so they ignore key facts....im getting tired of typing to argue the same thing over and over...

ConanDect
October 20, 2008, 12:15 PM
1. It was never stated that Soi Fon was the VC at the time
2. I don't know where you guys are getting that 3rd seat is supposed to be in charge of Maggot's Nest
3. My logic is based on stuff implied. Of course, you're the type of reader who can only say things that are blatantly stated in the manga and then use your biased opinions to further your argument. You are not able to see the implied details. For that reason, I will not keep up with this inane discussion. People agreeing with you one those things also cannot see the implied details and I am not one to argue with people who are biased because you like that character.

Argue amongst yourselves. From what I see, the people replying to me aren't up to keeping a coherent debate with me on this manga, so it's pointless for me to waste any more of my energy typing up responses that are clearly going over your head.

Yans86
October 20, 2008, 12:25 PM
SoiFon idgoingtokick this arrancar's a**.....he can release,Iknow,but if she start to use her shikai some more kidou(she looks really skillfull at it),without even talkin about shunkou and bankai...for sure she is going to have the upperhand!!!!remember.....she is an assassin......remember also that she was under Yoruichi(100years andmore before the currentevent),which means that she is more experienced than people like Kommamura,Hitsu,Byakuya,Kenpachi(even if he is a beast)......from taht time there are only Yama,Kyoraku,Gin,Tousen,Aizen,Unohana,Yoruichi and Urahara......think about that........

I'm still thinking that Stark is number one,Barragan two and Halibel three.....at a certain point Halibel is oing to be defeated,not necessarily from Hitsugaya...Barragan is going to stand up to fight Yama,but one between Ukitake or Kommamura will stand to his place....Barragan 2,Stark 1 !!!!:-P

In the end,Yama is one,Kyouraku 2,and Ukitake for his sickness 3,I really think that Kommamura is stronger than Hitsu cause he hisa beast like Kenpachi,and a lot more experienced than Hitsu,furthermore his bankai kick a**,he can easilybreak all the ice u can use on him!!!

I can also see a draw between Halibel and Hitsu,with both half dead on the ground...we don't really need to see all wins,draws to death can be enough to get rid of SS,putting out the espada,putting Aizen-Gin-Tousen agaist Yama and the VC's which is no contest.....atthispoint we r going to see 10 VL against the Vizard,taking time while Aizen kill old Yama.Then he is going to flee to KT and in some way,getting rid of Yoruichi,Kurosaki's father,and Urahara he is going to give birth to the Ouken and flee int he kings dimension,where he is goingto organize his new uber armywith the VL as general!!!END of the Arc

New Arc,Vizard and Shinigami again togheter,healing the injured and deciding whatto do.We are going to have for ex. Kyouraku as new Command General and a lot of thing r going to happen again....

I see Kyouraku for command general not only for his skills and experienxes,but also because he knew about Aizen's plan,but he was waiting the right moment to act!!!U can saythatI'm a fool......but Kyouraku tried to stop Rukia's execution with a Shiouichin's tool,which was given him by Yoruichi http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/154/10/
Also the fact that when he left Soukyouku's hill to fight Yama,he said to Ukitake that there were an ally moving there.......Yoruichi. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/153/14/
Yoruichi were banned,and Kyouraku addressed to her as an ally,and they had one of her family's tool.

If Kubo want a revolution for the next arc,and give more space to Ichigo's friend,he has to find a way to let only the human and the Vizards go in King's dimension,due to the factfor example that humanbody are kinda like Gigai's...this will put out the shinigami for a period,and is going to put a big possibility for evolving inpower for Ichigo and his friends...

ryanzokuken
October 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
A better chance than Shinji!!!!

OK that really does it, but first lets say a few things


YES, the third seat is in charge of the prison meanwhile the VC is in charge of being the BITCH of the 2 division captain, or are you willing to say that the 3 seat in the 2 division (the badass head slicing ninja) is weaker than Omaeda?

remember that thanks to yoruichi the 2 division has a very different setting, (VC, 3 seat, 4 seat, 5 seat) all these officers are VC material (all of them) that was clearly said in the manga, and the only reason why Urahara was a third seat was because he was in charge of the prison (not because he was weaker than Soi Fon).

And Urahara has a better shot with Aizen than YAMAMOTO or SHINJI?

Please don't say things that may get some people pissed...

THERE IS NO WAY, we can be sure of that, I mean Urahara has a few tricks under his shelves, however, saying that Yamamoto and Shinji are weaker than him can be arged in a lots of ways.

Shinji could beat GJ with just his mask, meanwhile Ichigo had his Bankai + Mask and that says a lot, and old yamamoto is yamamoto...

in the end we don't have numbers or facts, so you can't be running around saying that Urahara is stronger than Old Yamamoto or Shinji.

maybe when you learn to read, and then, after learning to read, actually take the time to do just that, your arguments will be on point or remotely accurate.

i SAID, MORE THAN ONCE, that Yama and Shinji are more powerful than Urahara, but THERE IS MORE THAN RAW POWER to battles in Bleach, and i said that Urahara has the best chance out of anyone at fighting Aizen, not that he was as strong as Aizen or would kick his ass. READ peoples posts if you're going to argue against them! your entire argument with Ono a couple pages ago was this exact same redundancy and blatent disregard for what everyone was posting, INCLUDING YOUR OWN posts!

Shinji is one of my top 3 favorite characters, and i'd gaurantee that, from what we know as of right now, he's more powerful than Urahara. but i'd also bet a lot of money that he couldn't beat Urahara.

i'll repeat myself so i'm clear. again, this is for you, chaoswind, ready? put your reading glasses on and remember, if you come to a word you don't know, sound it out, and if you have to, look it up.

i am not claiming that Urahara is more powerful, or even AS powerful, as Aizen, Shinji, nor Yamamoto. i am claiming that despite this, and regardless of their power, he would do better in a fight against Aizen thean either those two, or anyone else in the series right now, would do. get me?

and now, as a follow up point, i don't care if you disagree. go ahead, that's fine. you aren't going to change my mind, but by all means, argue your opinion. just do it intelligently instead of swearing like a sailor and talking like a pissed off thirteen year old.

Chaoswind
October 20, 2008, 12:37 PM
Well, I though you were implying strength, but if you say it like that then YES, Urahara probably has a few tricks to use to his advantage, and thus has a better chance, sorry the argument about matsumoto left me in a state that I can only see claims of strength and power.

and I take it, I was wrong to assume you somehow said Urahara was stronger than Shinji, Yama or Aizen (but that is how this discussion started, so I have a right to have misunderstood you)

Raizen
October 20, 2008, 12:41 PM
First off: Urahara == Ikkaku is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard
Second: i definitely think urahara is a strong fighter, but his skills rely in his intellect not raw strength. While his fighting skills may not be in the top tier, his intelligence and ability to think in the heat of battle puts him in the top caliber. While I think he is strong and can give aizen a run for his money, i don't think he can beat aizen. Well, duh aizen is a crazy mofo w/ the cheapest zanpaktou.
third: Shinji and yama being compared to urahara. Like I posted above, urahara's intellect makes up for anything he lacks and he could indeed give shinji a run too, but yama i doubt it. Just his shikai was shocking to his 2 students and his skills are ledgendary. IMO shunsui and uki are a bit stronger than urahara

Now for the next chapter, hopefully soifon kills her opponent b4 it can even release, now that would be badass. No need for a release. SERIOUSLY
As for the espadas beating the captains. i see the captains winning. Then aizen will say I have been using all of u and then the VL shows up. Starks and Halibel are still alive and are pissed at aizen. They help the shinigami and later become new members of the urahra shop workers LOL

Seriph2
October 20, 2008, 12:42 PM
Your argument is heavily flawed. It was implied that Kenpachi came into SS, challenged the former 11th division captain and won. He used his strength to win, thus he had the strength of a captain.

Urahara on the other hand was held at 3rd seat. Furthermore, Yoruichi was that division's captain so it's expected that she may give Urahara some leeway and make him VC if he was close in power to teh 2nd division VC. But no, he was still 3rd seat so he has 3rd seat power.

Your comparison to Kenpachi would make sense if Kenpachi was first held as a seated officer but that's not the case, so your comparison does not make sense.

No where is it stated that he had to be third seat because he was in charge of the Maggot's Nest. That's not even remotely implied anywhere in the manga. Renji is Byakuya's VC but Renji goes off on his own all the time. Another of your arguments flawed.

Showing dominance over your zan doesn't mean you're very strong. I mean their zan are a part of them, after all. Ichigo got bankai and had no increase in strength. They said it takes about 10 years of training to reach bankai and you'd increase your power 5-10 fold. That heavily implies that the years of training is what increases the power. Ichigo not having a strength boost further strengthens that point.

3rd Seat + Bankai = Urahara and Ikkaku. That's using logic and what is heavily implied and stated in the manga. Unlike you, I'm using reasoning instead of "OMG! HE'S SO COOL AND I LIKE HIM SO HE MUST BE STRONG" logic. Furthermore, I said Urahara's brain is what sets him apart from Ikkaku, but power-wise he should not be far off. See that? That's strong reasoning again. Something you fail to have in your post.

Yes, you are done.



His logic ISNT flawed. Urahara comparison to ikkaku? Why exactly is ikkaku in his current position? Because he chooses to REMAIN there he jeopardized soul society to keep his bankai even a secret so right there you cant even compare ikkaku to any other 3rd seat. Now furthermore would you compare kommamaru to kenpachi? They are both captains with bankai so using your "logic" they have to be equal?

As far as dominance over your zanpak not being an indicator of strength? Dominance over something implies control and control is exactly what is needed to even GAIN bankai in the first place. The reason why they say it takes an extended period of time to learn bankai is because of the control factor to get in tune with your zanpak.

There are variables you arent taking into consideration variables we dont even know of and wont know of until they show urahara in more detail. Logic isnt about stringing together superficial similarities theres much more to it than that.

Yans86
October 20, 2008, 12:59 PM
Please don't compare Urahara with Ikkaku.....even if Ikkau has a bankai,surely Urahara had it to when he was third seat,moreover he had huge knowledge of particular methods to become powerful.....vizardification like also the training Ichigo did.....and talking about that,Urahara said to Yoruichi that maybe,in power,Ichigo is a genius like him or even better....

Who really scareme is Gin(the coolest),he killed a 3rd seat like an antwhen he was a child,and just for fun....

I was thinking also about Aizen bankai....if his shikai can decide the world u see with illusion ecc.....what if his bankai can let him to kill a Soul Cutter,hitting it in the soul cutter universe?!which means that after that,even if u r a shinigami skilled in kidou,hand to hand and movements....ur spirit will fall in despare...and even without that,without your Zanpakotou u won't beable to to almost anything...
If he could do something like that,we can explain why he won't become aVizard,or his possible easy win against them cause he can kill their soul's cutter,and their inner hollow at the same time........(Shirosaki is in the same world of Zangetsu).....

hajialibaig
October 20, 2008, 01:09 PM
what... Urahara toys with Yammi just for fun, where as, Ikkaku barely beat Grimmjow's fraccion. No one but an idiot would compare the two :(

Onomatopoeia
October 20, 2008, 01:38 PM
Oh my god did I just read something using Ranks as a good way to determine power?

Hey guys Hitsugaya=Shunsui because they're both captains. Oh wait...

Edit: If Chaoswind would like to continue this debate on PM then I don't care. Send me a message.

Cyanilurus
October 20, 2008, 02:07 PM
Nuuuuuu! First Hitsugaya vs... a couple other captains, and now an Urahara vs Ikkaku is starting? How sad can this thread get? :p

(Just kidding... in a way.)

Tsukisama
October 20, 2008, 03:13 PM
Nuuuuuu! First Hitsugaya vs... a couple other captains, and now an Urahara vs Ikkaku is starting? How sad can this thread get? :p

(Just kidding... in a way.)

No, I think you hit the head on the nail actually. This thread is completely off-topic. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted. (You may continue your discussion of how powerful Urahara is in the Hangout Thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40698), the SS captain comparison thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20318), or Urahara's character thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18169).)

akatsuki27
October 20, 2008, 03:14 PM
what... Urahara toys with Yammi just for fun, where as, Ikkaku barely beat Grimmjow's fraccion. No one but an idiot would compare the two :(

he's not getting it guys...his "logic" is going over our heads apparently so we will never comprehend how urahara = ikkaku


Oh my god did I just read something using Ranks as a good way to determine power?

Hey guys Hitsugaya=Shunsui because they're both captains. Oh wait...


exactly...

anyway moving on, if soi fon doesnt kill that sabre tooth in the next chapter i'll be pissed cause komamura one-hit the other fraccion so that would be obvious stalling by Kubo. Also, i want matsumotto to kill one of the three by next chapter's end...speed this up and kubo and get to what the people want!!!

Onomatopoeia
October 20, 2008, 04:11 PM
Kommamaru one shotted a Fraccion in Bankai, this Fraccion is probablly stronger. If were lucky then next chapter we'll the Fraccion releasing and defeating Soi Fon until she goes Bankai and one shots it. If were not lucky then Soi Fon will destroy the Fraccion until it releases... at the end of the chapter.

Anyways I'm more interested in seeing Matsumoto's fight.

ryanzokuken
October 20, 2008, 04:39 PM
i seriously doubt that-

A) Soi Fon, a captain whose bankai we haven't seen yet, will have her bankai revealed in a scuffle with just a little fraccion. initial revealing of zanpakutos come at serious, dramatic moments. Kubo shouldn't waste her's here.

and

B) Sabertooth here is stronger than Po.

Chaoswind
October 20, 2008, 06:12 PM
Po the whale

and I agree, it would be cheap to reveal Soi Fon Bankai in a fight with a fraction, now if the fraction goes Puff and resurrects that would be more or less OK, but that mainly depends on the powers of the Sabertooth (guy?) (lets say the Sabertooth is an adjucas class Arrancar)

Now can we expect any of the fractions fighting right now to be stronger than Yammy? If not then the answer is clear, only Omaeda, Hitsugaya and Matsumoto can actually lose their fights at this moment (Shunsui vs Stark hasn't started yet)

and I am not saying they are going to lose (even thought I would love if they lose and DIE), I am saying the possibility is there.

Tsukisama
October 20, 2008, 06:36 PM
Po the whale

and I agree, it would be cheap to reveal Soi Fon Bankai in a fight with a fraction, now if the fraction goes Puff and resurrects that would be more or less OK, but that mainly depends on the powers of the Sabertooth (guy?) (lets say the Sabertooth is an adjucas class Arrancar)

Now can we expect any of the fractions fighting right now to be stronger than Yammy? If not then the answer is clear, only Omaeda, Hitsugaya and Matsumoto can actually lose their fights at this moment (Shunsui vs Stark hasn't started yet)

and I am not saying they are going to lose (even thought I would love if they lose and DIE), I am saying the possibility is there.

I agree. I don't really see any way that Soi Fon should be in any danger of losing. At best, the fraccion could break free of the bakudou, release,and be powerful enough to force Soi Fon to use bankai, but even that much is unlikely given that Soi Fon's shikai technique has never been fully shown. I don't think that Fraccion #5 is worth Soi Fon's bankai, and I would definitely be disappointed if Kubo reveals it for him/her/it.

Andonan
October 20, 2008, 06:41 PM
If Soi Fon releases Bankai it will be against Barragan because I wouldn't be supprised if she's the first one to face him and will get beaten down, and Stark vs Shunsui has started look back a couple of chapters they cross swords....

xXAshisogiJizoXx
October 20, 2008, 07:30 PM
Well, heres to praying that kubo doesnt drag these insignificant fraccion fights. hopefully in two-three chapters time, all of the remaining fraccion fights are settled. i dont want all of the fraccion to lose. i want the number of wins and losses to be farely even, leaving more pressure on the remaining cpt.s and their fights.

on fraccion number 5, i initially assumed it to be a girl, however, after it being reffered to as "genderless" a few times, i looked back and it is really hard to tell, however they say that you should always go with your initial reaction...so wutever. who "they" are i dont know, but thats what they say.

As for matsu's bankai, im pretty sure she's been training off-screen. someone said that in real wartime that people dont waste bullets training their aim,...well, bleach universe dont have bullets, and im pretty sure people like vice cpts, who have a possibility of attaining bankai, which is a powerful weapon in wartime, will prolly be training for it. Now, even with that it would still be unreasonable for her to have considering it should take years to attain one, but compared to ichi its extremely reasonable :p

Chaoswind
October 20, 2008, 08:21 PM
O.O

But all these post where not off topic...

Oh well >_>

Who is willing to bet that Soi Fon won't use her Bankai on next chapter and that the Sabertooth (guy?) will die

Onomatopoeia
October 20, 2008, 08:27 PM
Hey I'm just going by the trends of Bleach. In that if someone releases first they'll lose because the other person will have some sort of release, till they release a second time...

Though I could imagine this battle going in just as a Shikai battle.

patedecarne
October 20, 2008, 08:48 PM
I'm predicting something like that for the next chapter, and I think this is one of the most reasonable options so far:

-Matsumoto will fight and defeat all the three fraccions, but she'll get badly hurt in the process, thus being unable to fight for some time;

-Soi Fong will dispose quickly of those 2 fraccions, and will take part on the Halibel fight; I'm saying that because Soi isn't the type who'll wait patiently for the another's fight; she has a strong sense of warrior and therefore she will fght against an espada, and seeing how Stark has Shunsui and ukitake and Barragan is just idle for now, Halibel is the only person available for now ^^

P e i n
October 20, 2008, 10:01 PM
I'm predicting something like that for the next chapter, and I think this is one of the most reasonable options so far:

-Matsumoto will fight and defeat all the three fraccions, but she'll get badly hurt in the process, thus being unable to fight for some time;

-Soi Fong will dispose quickly of those 2 fraccions, and will take part on the Halibel fight; I'm saying that because Soi isn't the type who'll wait patiently for the another's fight; she has a strong sense of warrior and therefore she will fght against an espada, and seeing how Stark has Shunsui and ukitake and Barragan is just idle for now, Halibel is the only person available for now ^^

Hitsugaya and Soi Fong partnership. Now that's interesting.

ArmsDealer70
October 20, 2008, 10:16 PM
i say soi fong beats fraction and omaeda dies because he needs to get his fatass on a diet, hell just let omaeda die hes worthless and then yeah