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View Full Version : Question When Did Luffy Learn Gear Second?



monkey D luffy
October 14, 2008, 05:58 AM
i saw some posts saying that he learned gear second while watching blueno soru. but as far as i know he learned that after he lost to aokiji and decided he needs to get stronger.
what the truth about this?

Fox666
October 14, 2008, 06:48 AM
There is no real "confirmation". (except during a filler movie that he said he developed it during a battle)

As far we know Luffy adapt to an opponent, we can guess he developed that steam technique to fight Aokiji.

But in the truth, all we know is that while going to Ennies Lobby in the Sea Train, he said "there is something I want to test". And while fighting, Blueno say that Luffy learned Soru, and Luffy replies "I noticed how does you kick the air more than ten times in a second".

bittman
October 14, 2008, 08:01 AM
Learning Soru and Gear second are, in my opinion, un-related.

* Soru - learnt by seeing the trick in the initial CP9 fight.
* Gear Second - developed, like all Gomu Gomu abilities, on a whim and out of curiosity alone. Luffy has been shown to develop his most devastating attacks when under pressure without prior training. In this way, Luffy never 'learnt' gear second, but simply made it without (much) practice.

As a note: One Piece doesn't do training monologues like Naruto and 2nd class karate movies. So I suppose you could stretch your imagination to believe he had attempted it in the days/weeks of travel between the Long Ring Island and Water 7.

RobinotX
October 14, 2008, 08:21 AM
He knew he had it in Movie 7.. with that giant Turtle o.o but that's in the movie...

Jammin
October 14, 2008, 02:03 PM
While it wasn't clearly stated when he learned it. This *page* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/) seems to indicate that it is in fact a move inspired by Soru. *Here* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/) he even says how glad he is they showed him there was such a way to move.

The logic behind Soru is that the CP9 members rapidly kick the ground to increasing blood flow to their legs making them go faster.

Luffy noticed this in his brief fight with the CP9 members and decided to increase blood flow all throughout his body by forcefully pumping it using his legs. Something that is only possible for someone with organs made of rubber. Lucci of CP9 gives his explanation of it right *here* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/)

Since Gear Second was derived of Soru he couldn't have learned it before he fought CP9 for the first time. My guess is Luffy figured out the theory of the move shortly after the first fight with CP9 and his first time actually doing it was against Blueno.:)

Razh
October 14, 2008, 02:32 PM
What you're saying does make sense to a degree. Sure, it could be interpreted that it's either Soru, or Gear 2nd. It's easilly possible that he devised Gear 2nd before, and had faster attacks, but just couldn't move at the speed of soru.

The thing that mostly makes me belive that he devised Gear 2nd somewhere between Aokiji and Water 7 is, simply put, Gear 3rd. If he already had Gear 3rd before, than why didn't he call it Gear 2nd.
I didn't see anything that would give him an idea for Gear 3rd at the spot.
He was ready to use it against Blueno before he saw that he was a goner, and I can't remember if he was surprised of his shrinkage in Chimney's s flashback.
But come on, Luffy's no genius. Inventing 2 of those Gears on a train to Enies Lobby is just too much for him.

That's why I think it was before they came to Water 7.

bittman
October 14, 2008, 06:22 PM
Well if Luffy is no battle genius, obviously someone told him how to use them? Razh, it's been shown that Luffy's brilliance is completely based off instinct and I completely agree with what Jammin said. If you question how he figured out the gears, why don't you question how he figured out the Gomu Gomu Storm or something?

Jammin
October 14, 2008, 07:01 PM
Luffy is a natural at combat.

What a genius would have to think long and hard about, Luffy does purely on instinct. The ways he has made use of his devil fruit power is beyond genius. He is not big on training a move and seeing if it works. He just does the first thing that comes into his mind without a hint of self doubt, because of his luck/instincts most of the time it works out great.:amuse

Sometimes of course their can be hiccups, "Gum Gum no Pinwheel" for example.:p

My point is i don't think it to be very unusual for Luffy to create any number of fighting moves, no matter the short period of time. That's just they way he is, and you gotta love it.:D

monkey D luffy
October 15, 2008, 09:01 AM
What you're saying does make sense to a degree. Sure, it could be interpreted that it's either Soru, or Gear 2nd. It's easilly possible that he devised Gear 2nd before, and had faster attacks, but just couldn't move at the speed of soru.

The thing that mostly makes me belive that he devised Gear 2nd somewhere between Aokiji and Water 7 is, simply put, Gear 3rd. If he already had Gear 3rd before, than why didn't he call it Gear 2nd.
I didn't see anything that would give him an idea for Gear 3rd at the spot.
He was ready to use it against Blueno before he saw that he was a goner, and I can't remember if he was surprised of his shrinkage in Chimney's s flashback.
But come on, Luffy's no genius. Inventing 2 of those Gears on a train to Enies Lobby is just too much for him.

That's why I think it was before they came to Water 7.

thats exectly what bothered me: gear 3rd. if he knew of it before then this one shouldve been gear second. also if i remember correctly he learnt the gears after fighting aokiji and not while he saw soru. also he figured soru out on the roof against blueno not on the train as far as i remember.

thanks Razh

Fox666
October 15, 2008, 11:41 AM
The logic behind Soru is that the CP9 members rapidly kick the ground to increasing blood flow to their legs making them go faster.I think they kick the floor ten times, and the impact make them move fast. Soru is like a "jump", not as if they where running.
And the way Gear works is unrelated, but he use Soru with the same way.

Razh
October 15, 2008, 06:19 PM
Luffy is a genius in battle. But you can't compare the principle between a single attacking move like Gomu gomu Storm and Gears. Storm is a move where Luffy uses basic stretching abillity of his body to perform a devastating attack. Developing Gears required some degree of thought invested into it. Luffy expands the normal capabilities of his fevil fruit
Besides, Luffy doesn't kick the ground when he's activating Gear 2nd.

Take a look at this page and read the text carefully.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/

Than this one, 4th panel.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/08/

I mean, on this page, Luffy only says how he realized the way to move fast. Doesn't say anything about Soru inspiring him to create Gear 2nd.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/

Jammin
October 15, 2008, 07:31 PM
Well it seems we see things a bit differently. Here's how i see it.:amuse

*This* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) section is just him explaining when he realized he needed to find a way to fight stronger opponents, not when he learned the technique. If he had known it when he first fought CP9 he would have used it then.


Besides, Luffy doesn't kick the ground when he's activating Gear 2nd. Because he doesn't need to, what he has done surpasses Soru. *He is literally using his legs as blood pumps.* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/) So their would be no need to kick the ground at all.


I mean, on this page, Luffy only says how he realized the way to move fast. Doesn't say anything about Soru inspiring him to create Gear 2nd.Luffy's words to Blueno *"I saw how you kicked the ground 10 times before you moved. I got the hang of it and I'm glad to know there's a way to move like that."* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/) So Luffy confirms that his own movement was made possible by seeing them use Soru.

Since Luffy's "Gear Second" was explained by Lucci and Luffy himself said that this way of moving was thanks to seeing Soru. There is plenty in my opinion that indicates that Soru works through blood flow of the legs and not rapidly jumping from one place to another. Besides if it was a rapid jump their would be no need to kick the ground 10 times in a second before you move.

Blueno was right when he said *Luffy had mastered Soru* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/08/), he just found a way to do it with his whole body. Which is why Luffy's arms as well as legs sped up. Luffy's technique is based on the same principals but because of his rubber body he found a way to make it stronger and more taxing on his body.:)

While he was thinking about using his rubber body in that way, it would make sense that he would think of any other ways he could physically adjust his body to be more powerful. The result is Gear Third.

Razh
October 16, 2008, 08:57 AM
Well, since you interpret the facts in a pretty free manner, I don't see anything else that would contribute this discussion, since you're pretty convinced that you're right.
Sad thing is, that we'll probably never find out the truth, unless someone pops the question is SBS.

Just a few more thoughts.
About Luffy not using his Gears the moment he saw CP9. There was just not enough time. And you have to count the element of surprise, number of enemies and a lack of space. Why didn't Zoro use Asura then? Or did he too, pick that up on the train. Why didn't Sanji use Diable Jamble against Blueno on the train. Nooo, he probably learned it after that fight...
How could Luffy test his Gears on a train in the middle of the storm? You'll probably say that he didn't even know how they work, and that he used them for the first time in battle. Come on. He had to have some idea of how the shit works.

One thing I remember is, Luffy using Gomu Gomu Bazooka on that giant from Franky Family. It was somewhat different from his usual Bazooka. And in the anime, his hands were colored pink while he was doing it. I know, it's anime, but those kind of things are not accidental in One Piece.

About that last paragraph of yours. It's so speculative that there should be a new word for it.

Oh crap, I ended up discussing again.

BlackHair
October 16, 2008, 03:20 PM
As a note: One Piece doesn't do training monologues like Naruto and 2nd class karate movies. So I suppose you could stretch your imagination to believe he had attempted it in the days/weeks of travel between the Long Ring Island and Water 7.I agree 100%!

Unlike other shounen series, OP was never focused in any kind of training. The main-characters kept enveloping while fighting stronger foes. Those experiences of heat battles made them grow stronger.

Regarding Luffy, I agree with Jammin (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1070041&postcount=12). About Zoro and Sanji, they were also able to keep up with CP9's Rokushiki, so I believe after the first encounter with CP9 in W7 (Zoro & Luffy) and on the train (Sanji), they came up with their new fighting techniques: Gear, Ashura and Diable Jumbo. So basically they came up with that on the way to Enis Lobby in the train.

Again it is One Piece, there was never any kind of training arcs, they grow stronger on their whim.

Razh
October 16, 2008, 05:13 PM
Saying that they came up with such awesome techniques in just a couple of hours they were on the Rocketman, is too much, even for One Piece.
By that belief, Luffy should have picked up on Haki and beaten Kizaru by now.
He should be on around Gear 6 or something.

That's just too much.

Isn't it clearly stated in manga, that the SH were stronger on Enies Lobby than in Galley-La mansion because of their conviction and morale boost, because they knew Robin was taken against her will.

EDIT: Correction. Not clearly stated, but rather strongly alluded. You know, that old One Piece crap about Nakamas and unity and all that.

kkck
October 16, 2008, 05:31 PM
They could have easily come up with those moves between islands. Even if it was a week or two, it could be enough to develop the moves.

BlackHair
October 16, 2008, 06:23 PM
Well, Zoro enveloped a new cutting technique while fighting Mr.1. At first he wasn't able to cut steel, but right before the end he was. He enveloped a new technique within a few minutes. So why is that unthinkable that Luffy & Co came up with their new moves in couple of hours after W7? One Piece is unique, you can't compare its fighting enveloping with other shounen series.

If its about fighting every of those Monster trio are genius, actually every SH is. While fighting with Oz they came up with a strategy to defeat him and that's actually without any kind of strategy discussion.

Just my opinion, its not clearly stated when they learned, though I believe after their first encounter with CP9. Anyway, it has to be some time after AoKiji, that's for sure.

Jammin
October 16, 2008, 07:33 PM
Well, since you interpret the facts in a pretty free manner, I don't see anything else that would contribute this discussion, since you're pretty convinced that you're right.All I was offering my viewpoint. I presented what i view to be the relevant facts and tried my best to explain why i think what i do.

You seem pretty confident that Luffy couldn't have learned gear third and gear second after his conflict with CP9 as well. But in all honesty, i find it rather hard to find any facts backing up your reasoning. Perhaps you could help me to understand what has you so convinced Gear Second and Gear third had to be devoloped before his conflict with CP9. The only things I've seen you present as evidence so far are....

*) Luffy isn't smart enough to come up with gear second and gear third unless he was working on one or both of them before his conflict with CP9. (This is an opinion any why you look at it.)

*) This scene (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) where, Luffy expresses his understanding of the need to grow stronger and that he found a way to do it. (You would have to interpret it pretty heavily to make it say much more than that.)

I don't think I'm being closed minded when i say, this doesn't seem like very convincing evidence. You are obviously quite convinced that you are right so by all means present your evidence and reasoning. I'm sure you think what you do for good reason. Though as things stand I'm having trouble understanding those reasons.

I listed my evidence and thought process on the previous page. So if you don't know why i think what i do, just read my post again or ask a question about anything that seemed unclear. I'll happily answer.:)


About that last paragraph of yours. It's so speculative that there should be a new word for it.Um...yes it is speculative, because it is speculation. I offered that as a possible theory for the development of gear third. Not as a fact. Any explanation of gear third is speculative because it hasn't been explained.:s


Saying that they came up with such awesome techniques in just a couple of hours they were on the Rocketman, is too much, even for One Piece.
By that belief, Luffy should have picked up on Haki and beaten Kizaru by now.
He should be on around Gear 6 or something.Since when does Luffy think things out? Luffy doesn't train or plan things before hand. This is Luffy we're talking about.:amuse

I wouldn't call him a "genius" because his skill is not based on intelligence. The right word is "natural" because he his skill is based on instinct. My opinion is, Gear second is just an example of Luffy incorporating stuff he sees into his fighting style.

I think you underestimate Luffy's talent greatly. Nothing is beyond Monkey D Luffy, he is going to be king of the pirates after all.:D

Razh
October 17, 2008, 04:48 AM
I don't underestimate Luffy. I consider it an insult when someone says that to me.

From my perspective, saying that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji came up with those new and complicated techniques between Water 7 and Enies Lobby, is underestimating Oda.

Especially when you consider that there was almost no time that they could have come up with those techniques. A crowded train in the middle of the storm.

Oh yeah, blackhair, you can't compare Zoro cutting Mr. 1 and his Asura, where he has 9 blades instead of 3.

And Jammin, neither of us presented some evidence. Only facts that we have can be interpreted in 2 ways.

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 06:53 AM
From my perspective, saying that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji came up with those new and complicated techniques between Water 7 and Enies Lobby, is underestimating Oda.

Oh yeah, blackhair, you can't compare Zoro cutting Mr. 1 and his Asura, where he has 9 blades instead of 3.
Just to make my point clear, Im not underestimating Oda.

Anyway, why can't I compare Asura with the one-sword steel-cutting technique? As he learned Asura he was way stronger than as he learned the steel cutting. Each technique was a huge step forward. Just 'cause Asura is more powerful doesn't mean the steel cutting was easy to learn. Without the steel cutting Zoro wouldn't have mastered Asura (probably :p).


Especially when you consider that there was almost no time that they could have come up with those techniques. A crowded train in the middle of the storm. Like said earlier, OP is unique. Fact is, Oda never drew any kind of training arcs. Actually the training was before the start of the series, Luffy with Garp and later his friend, Zoro at the Dojo and Sanji with Jeff on Baratie. About the steel cutting technique, he learned it as he was half dead, so basically in a way more worse circumstances than on a train in a stormy sea.

I don't understand in which way u expect the SHs to learn new techniques. They are geniuses, they envelope due to experiences and in heated up situations.

Crenzel
October 17, 2008, 07:02 AM
I gotta say, after reading this heated debate, all the evidence shown doesn’t point to a certain conclusion. It can be argued either way in my opinion.

My view on this is that it was developed before the Blueno fight simply because the gear 3 thing is so hard to argue against. Sure it’s possible to develop both gear 2 and gear 3 at that moment (though highly unlikely) but Luffy’s attitude after he hits Blueno with the Jet Bazooka is like he had already developed and had experience with gear 3. I can’t remember if the Blueno fight was before or after he took down that huge door with gear 3 when Chimney and the cat/bunny was following him but either that or Luffy’s attitude suggests that gear 3 was known before the Blueno fight. So because of that, I don’t think gear 2 was created right then and there.

I’m going to assume that Luffy learned how to use soru from watching Blueno in this fight and not from any prior meetings with Blueno (I don’t want to try to find out if he saw Blueno using it before this). As bittman has said, there is no relation between the learning of soru and the creation of gear 2. They are completely different techniques but synergize perfectly with each other. Razh has already said that “it's easilly possible that he devised Gear 2nd before, and had faster attacks, but just couldn't move at the speed of soru.” and I agree with this. If he had gear 2 before the Blueno fight, perhaps he didn’t use it because even with the speed enhancement of gear 2, he could not keep up with the speed of soru. Maybe Luffy couldn’t move so fast that he “disappears” with just gear 2. Once he learned how to move that fast, he could implement his blood pumping, nutrient increasing gear 2 and couple it with his newly acquired soru (or soru inspired speed increase) to catch Blueno.

I know there are holes with the above explanations as there are with other people’s arguments but it seems plausible to me. If you can pick out the holes then I'll revise my opinion. Though I can’t give a definite answer as to when gear 2 was created, I do agree with Razh regarding the time frame of when gear 2 (the act of muscle contraction to increase bloodflow throughout the body carrying oxygen and other nutrients to body parts faster (not the fast movement)) itself was developed. If I want to get technical, gear 2 is a state and that state wasn't created during the fight with Blueno. I’d say it was between the Aokiji fight and W7 and that he learned how to best use it when he learned how soru was done by watching Blueno.

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 07:47 AM
About Gear 2, like Jammin (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1070041&postcount=12) explained, I think its pretty much clear when it was developed.

Luffy saw how CP9 fights and moves on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/)
We know Luffy had a new technique in mind while riding on puffing tom (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/)
Luffy is glad that he met CP9 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/03/)
Blueo confirms that Luffy know how to use Soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/)

Through increasing the blood pressure, Luffys physical ability increases (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/) - he don't need to hit 10 times before moving.


There are several hints which leads to only one conclusion. After watching CP9 on W7, Luffy got a idea for increasing his fighting ability. He then performed it with success on Enis Lobby. So far my viewpoint for Gear 2. If anybody else has a second logical explanation for this, I rly would like to hear it or if there should be any mistakes in my viewpoint, plz let me know.

Gear 3 though isn't as much explained like Gear 2. Luffy already had that while fighting Blueno on Enis Lobby (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/12/). Thus I believe he enveloped it with Gear 2 between W7 and Enis Lobby.

One Piece is unique, without training arcs. Don't think Oda will draw Luffy practising or sitting on table to come up with ideas. That didn't happened so far and probably won't.

Jammin
October 17, 2008, 08:48 AM
I don't underestimate Luffy. I consider it an insult when someone says that to me. It's a shame you have to take it so personally. It isn't meant as an insult. You just think Luffy isn't capable of something that i think he is capable of. That's all.:)


And Jammin, neither of us presented some evidence. Only facts that we have can be interpreted in 2 ways. Quoting manga pages is presenting evidence. Explaining why i think those pages support my a opinion is the foundation of debate. Which is exactly what i have done.:amuse

You don't have to agree with me, ignore me if you like it's just a forum, but if you are going to tell me my viewpoint is wrong and yours is right you can't expect to change my mind without first presenting the facts that make you think what you do and explain how you see them. Otherwise it's very hard for me to grasp your viewpoint. Which, believe it or not, i would like to do.:p

Their is no need for all this debate to get so heated. We are talking about something that doesn't even really matter to the manga.:)

Razh
October 17, 2008, 08:55 AM
About Gear 2, like Jammin (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1070041&postcount=12) explained, I think its pretty much clear when it was developed.

He explained his viewpoint, and it's easy to understand. But not everyone agrees because there is more than one way to look at things.



Luffy saw how CP9 fights and moves on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/)

That's true.


We know Luffy had a new technique in mind while riding on puffing tom (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/)

Just because he never mentioned it before, doesn't mean he wasn't able to use it then. Sanji and Zoro never mentioned their new techniques. Doesn't mean that they came up with them on the spot.


Luffy is glad that he met CP9 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/03/)

Yes, because thanks to them he learned about Soru. Just like he says. Nothing more.



Blueo confirms that Luffy know how to use Soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/)

Yes, Blueno confirms it, and says that Luffy's body is strong enough thanks to Gear 2 to withstand the technique without any trouble.



Through increasing the blood pressure, Luffys physical ability increases (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/) - he don't need to hit 10 times before moving.

Now where do you get this from. It's clearly stated that Soru is used by kicking the ground real fast, and Luffy says that he noticed it. If he noticed it and knew how to use it, than what's the point in creating an alternate way of doing it.
Increasing the blood pressure doesn't dismiss kicking the ground, because that's the way Soru is used. Maybe with Gear 2, since he is stronger, he needs to kick the ground less times than Blueno for example, but that's it.
There isn't any single indication that Luffy uses Soru in a different way than the rest of CP9.



There are several hints which leads to only one conclusion. After watching CP9 on W7, Luffy got a idea for increasing his fighting ability. He then performed it with success on Enis Lobby. So far my viewpoint for Gear 2. If anybody else has a second logical explanation for this, I rly would like to hear it or if there should be any mistakes in my viewpoint, plz let me know.

Thing is, Luffy only assimilated Soru. Why didn't he assimilate Geppou, Tekkai, Rankyaku or Shigan.
Seriously, if he's able to learn such techniques on a train ride of couple of hours, than he would have no trouble learning all of those techniques without a lot of trouble.


Gear 3 though isn't as much explained like Gear 2. Luffy already had that while fighting Blueno on Enis Lobby (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/12/). Thus I believe he enveloped it with Gear 2 between W7 and Enis Lobby.

Of course, he developed both Gears on the Rocketman, just because he saw some new techniques. He figured he was goofing off most of the time, so he used his brain a little. Luffy is actually a medical genius.


One Piece is unique, without training arcs. Don't think Oda will draw Luffy practising or sitting on table to come up with ideas. That didn't happened so far and probably won't.

Sure. I just don't get it why the idea of Luffy coming up with Gears between Aokiji and Water 7 is so hard to consider.
Only indication you have is Soru, which is just a movement technique, and doesn't speed up kicks and punches.

Crenzel
October 17, 2008, 05:54 PM
I totally agree with the last thing Razh said.

Only indication you have is Soru, which is just a movement technique, and doesn't speed up kicks and punches.

To me, Jammin's arguments point to the conclusion that gear 2 was a result of learning soru. If you read my previous post I explained why they aren't related at all.


The logic behind Soru is that the CP9 members rapidly kick the ground to increasing blood flow to their legs making them go faster.
I don't really agree with this. I'm certain that soru is a propelling manoeuvre as a result of the rapid kicks and not using the kicks to generate blood flow. Though illogical, this is a manga so the rapid kicks to the ground are so fast that it's as if they were one big kick that has the force to propel them forward at insane speeds. This is soru.

Gear 2 is a state of being. It is a state where Luffy has increased metabolism due to the increased speed of blood flow which provides oxygen and nutrients to various parts of his body making his body movements faster and stronger.

Referring back to the original topic question: When did Luffy learn gear second?
NOT when did Luffy learn to use gear second effectively with soru or some other version of soru that only gear 2 can achieve.

It is then entirely possible and highly probable that Luffy learned gear second before he even saw soru. Once he saw soru, he developed his gear further by incorporating it.

Furthermore, I have yet to see an explanation for why he already had gear 3 ready after he apparently came up with gear 2 on the spot other than coming up with gear 3 immediately after gear 2 in that fight.

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 06:06 PM
Rash I believe you are doing a mistake, those hints which I listed earlier are like puzzle pieces which you have to join together to come up with a theory basing on facts (complete puzzle). There is no point in reading those hints separately. Just join them and Im pretty sure you will come up with the same conclusion as we did.


But not everyone agrees because there is more than one way to look at things.

Just because he never mentioned it before, doesn't mean he wasn't able to use it then. Sanji and Zoro never mentioned their new techniques. Doesn't mean that they came up with them on the spot.About which way are u talking about? That he came up with the techniques any time between AoKij and Enis Lobby? Luffy only wanted to get stronger after AoKiji, since he wanted to protect his nakama. There are no hints proving that he did learned Gear 2 after meeting AoKiji.

Gear 2 is based on speed, which Luffy only could have come up after seeing how CP9 moves. That is way he mentioned in the train that he posses a new technique.

I have to agree with you on Zoro and Sanji, there ain't no proofs saying when they mastered their new techniques. Though I believe similar with Luffy after their first encounter with CP9.



Now where do you get this from. It's clearly stated that Soru is used by kicking the ground real fast, and Luffy says that he noticed it. If he noticed it and knew how to use it, than what's the point in creating an alternate way of doing it.
Increasing the blood pressure doesn't dismiss kicking the ground, because that's the way Soru is used. Maybe with Gear 2, since he is stronger, he needs to kick the ground less times than Blueno for example, but that's it.
There isn't any single indication that Luffy uses Soru in a different way than the rest of CP9.

Thing is, Luffy only assimilated Soru. Why didn't he assimilate Geppou, Tekkai, Rankyaku or Shigan.
Seriously, if he's able to learn such techniques on a train ride of couple of hours, than he would have no trouble learning all of those techniques without a lot of trouble

Only indication you have is Soru, which is just a movement technique, and doesn't speed up kicks and punches. Gear 2 is based on speed. Luffy only mentioned that he noticed how they move. By using his doping technique he expanding his physical abilities, like Lucci said. That's probably the reason why he don't have to hit the ground 10 times to accelerate.

If u look at Luffys body, not only his feet are turning red/pink rather his whole body is. Basically he has his speed also in his arms and other part of his body. And that's the difference between them. While CP9 uses Soru to only move fast, Luffy uses them also to punch fast. We are only talking about speed. Bluene only said he mastered Soru, there was no talk about Rokishi (spelling?). So he can't preform the other skills or he would have mastered Rokishi, which was never said in the manga, nor did we.




Of course, he developed both Gears on the Rocketman, just because he saw some new techniques. He figured he was goofing off most of the time, so he used his brain a little. Luffy is actually a medical genius.

Sure. I just don't get it why the idea of Luffy coming up with Gears between Aokiji and Water 7 is so hard to consider U just contradicted urself :p.

Anyway Luffy mentioned he has a new move on the way to W7 and we know Gear 2 is based on Soru. Its not like we can't consider him learning after AoKiji, its just impossible by the given hints in the manga.

Like Jammin already asked a few times, if u are convinced by ur theory then plz proof it with facts by manga scans, like we do. There is no point in saying our viewpoint is wrong if u can't explain urs. I rly would like to hear it but unfortunately I can't find any facts supporting ur viewpoint. Maybe I overlooked sth.. so plz feel free to post urs.

Since Jammin and Crenzel used the words "heated debate", I would like to explain that Im not from a environment where English is spoken. I learned it mostly myself, so I not rly good with English words. If by any chance my posts sounded impolite or offending, I would like to apologize, wasn't my intention at all.

Crenzel
October 17, 2008, 06:19 PM
Sure it's a heated debate, but there's no hatred or anything. Just a very passionate discussion. At least that's how I see it. There's no offense intended in these discussions, of course.

Anyway, please read my post above yours then tell me if you still think gear 2 is based on soru. That alone should sway either side's decision on the final conclusion. If gear 2 is based on soru then it must have been created during the fight with blueno. But if they're unrelated like I think, then gear 2 could have been created before that fight.

I re-emphasize the fact that gear 2 is a state of being.

Jammin
October 17, 2008, 08:04 PM
I read your post again very carefully Crenzel and i get what your saying but there are two points that i would like to make.

Point 1) On Gear Second being a quick movement based on kicking the ground.

The problems that i have with this theory are rooted in *this scene.* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/). Notice that Luffy says they were kicking the ground "before" they moved. I've looked at several translations and all of them have "before" in there. Since they were rapidly kicking the ground and then moving afterward, the blood flow theory is the only theory that i've heard that really fits.

Since we know from Lucci's explanation of Gear Second (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/) that in the One Piece world increased blood flow can "increase a persons physical abilities beyond their limits". And we know that Luffy learned something from watching CP9's Soru. I think things fall into place rather perfectly with the blood flow theory.

Point 2) On when Luffy learned Gear Second

Luffy saw the CP9 people use Soru at Water 7. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/347/12/) Then on his way to Enis Lobby, after that encounter he says *he has a new attack he want to "try out".* (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/)

Since Gear Second and Gear Third were the only new attacks he tried after that point it's logically sound to assume he was talking about at least one of them. That is the first point in the manga time line where he talks about those techniques. The are not referenced or suggested to exist before that point. Though it is never clearly stated exactly when Luffy created it.

My Theory) This is my complete theory of what happened when Luffy learned "Gear Second".
I felt the need to restate it in a clearer fashion so if someone feels they can disprove it will be easier for them to criticize it accurately.:p

*) Luffy see's CP9 use "Soru" in Water 7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/347/12/). To his credit, he not only figures out how they were doing it (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/), but he figures out the principals and learns that you can move faster by speeding up blood flow.

*) At some point between the the end of the Water 7 fight and the Rocketman trip (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/). Luffy comes up with a theory about to do that himself (Gear Second (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/)), and not just in his legs. A way to speed up his whole body punches and all.

*) While he was thinking of internal manipulations of his body he also thought up "Gear Third". A way for him to gain the attack power of a giant.(No real evidence for this point because almost nothing is known about Gear Third.)

*) Luffy first breaks out Gear Second against Blueno. (I don't think he had ever used it prior to then, there was no reason for him to.) A reckless and bold move, as expected from Luffy.

My conclusion:
As far as i can tell there are no holes in this theory. Though it is not conclusively proven. It makes everything fit. That only major valid criticism that i have heard so far is Luffy isn't brilliant enough to learn to techniques that quickly.

My answer to this is "He isn't really making them up from scratch his is imitating things he saw and understood." Carefully testing and training a technique isn't Luffy's style. Luffy has never been shown training in the entire manga so you can imagine my skepticism to the idea that we should assume that's how he developed the Gears.:)

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 08:41 PM
My view on this is that it was developed before the Blueno fight simply because the gear 3 thing is so hard to argue against. Sure it’s possible to develop both gear 2 and gear 3 at that moment (though highly unlikely) but Luffy’s attitude after he hits Blueno with the Jet Bazooka is like he had already developed and had experience with gear 3. I can’t remember if the Blueno fight was before or after he took down that huge door with gear 3 when Chimney and the cat/bunny was following him but either that or Luffy’s attitude suggests that gear 3 was known before the Blueno fight. So because of that, I don’t think gear 2 was created right then and there.
Luffy had no experiences with Gears, he performed it for the first time at Enis Lobby, again its OP, there was never any kind of trainings chapter. I base this on Luffys comment, that he has a new move to test while riding on puffing tom to Enis Lobby. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/) And on the fact that Gear 2 is based on Soru (speed) (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/)
Luffy first defeated Blueno and was about to go Gear 3, but wasn't necessary any more, since Blueno collapsed. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/12/) Later he used Gear 3 to destroy that gate. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/403/18/)



I’m going to assume that Luffy learned how to use soru from watching Blueno in this fight and not from any prior meetings with Blueno (I don’t want to try to find out if he saw Blueno using it before this). That is definitely wrong. He watched it from the first encounter with CP9, not only Blueno alone. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/348/06/) Then while riding on the sea train he points out, that he has a new technique which he wants to test. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/)

I guess u mixed the time line.

Anyway, please read my post above yours then tell me if you still think gear 2 is based on soru. That alone should sway either side's decision on the final conclusion. If gear 2 is based on soru then it must have been created during the fight with blueno. But if they're unrelated like I think, then gear 2 could have been created before that fight.

I re-emphasize the fact that gear 2 is a state of being
I agree with u to a certain extent. Gear 2 is a state of being. The difference between Gear 2 and normal Luffy is that Luffy posses in Gear 2 way more speed. In Gear 2 Luffy didn't used any new attacks, he used the ones which he always does.

Soru, the moving technique of CP9 is speed. Luffy pointed out that he saw how they moved and he even thanked them (well not rly but he was glad that he met them). That indicates that Soru was his trigger for Gear 2.

Gear 2 is basically like normal Luffy (Gear 1 xD) only with fukking more speed.

Plz read this hints. I note again, Gear 2 is state of being where Luffy posses more speed. Through that speed his hits also causes more damage.

Luffy saw how CP9 fights and moves on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/)
We know Luffy had a new technique in mind while riding on puffing tom (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/)
Luffy is glad that he met CP9 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/03/)
Blueo confirms that Luffy know how to use Soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/)

Through increasing the blood pressure, Luffys physical ability increases (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/)

Razh
October 18, 2008, 04:13 AM
You two really don't need to explain your theories in every post you write.
It's pretty clear in Jammins first post, and anyone would find it easy to understand.

So, I don't need to read it again so I could possibly change my mind. I just have a different opinion.

It's just weird to me that Luffy never explained how he came up with Gear 3rd, especially if he explained how he developed Gear 2nd. Assuming he wasn't thinking only about assimilating Soru.
I don't buy that "after he came up with Gear 2nd, he started thinking about more ways to enhance his body".
There just wasn't enough time, since creating such techniques really requires some serious thought put into it. Not that Luffy isn't capable of that, just that there wasn't enough time.

I'll make a guess, and say that you two believe that he probably came up with Gears some time between wearing his blue shorts and changing them with black ones. Like he knew that he will have to eat to recover his strenght. So basically he learned Gears and knew everything about them after such a short time.
Isn't that just a bit of a stretch?

gfire2
October 18, 2008, 06:02 AM
i believe luffy thought abt gear 2 just after he met akoiji.

@blackhair: i dont agree with u abt this part

Gear 2 is basically like normal Luffy (Gear 1 xD) only with fukking more speed.

Plz read this hints. I note again, Gear 2 is state of being where Luffy posses more speed. Through that speed his hits also causes more damage.

by pumping more oxygen EVENLY (hence gear 2) into his body he is able to increase his atk power, atk speed, and movement speed. soro was onli a bonus to further increase his movement speed IMO. and i agree with u abt luffy using the gears at the first time in enis lobby (but he alreadi completed the ideas abt the gears before hand)

how i read the cp9 encounter water 7 incident was that luffy was more concerned abt robin rather than fighting the cp9, if u try reading it again luffy was never serious abt fighting the cp9, he was more concerned abt hearing the answer from robin rather than pay attention to his surroundings (we can see this in the amazon part, he was easily defeated and captured by the amazons) if he was forced, i believe he woulda of used his gears in water 7 if he heard the story there.

BlackHair
October 18, 2008, 07:12 AM
It's just weird to me that Luffy never explained how he came up with Gear 3rd, especially if he explained how he developed Gear 2nd. Assuming he wasn't thinking only about assimilating Soru.
I don't buy that "after he came up with Gear 2nd, he started thinking about more ways to enhance his body".
There just wasn't enough time, since creating such techniques really requires some serious thought put into it. Not that Luffy isn't capable of that, just that there wasn't enough time.
I get ur point and it may seem like Oda made it easy. But it only seems far-fetched 'cause you are comparing it with the real world or other shounen series. While Naruto and Bleach have trainings chapter, OP never had any. Oda never rly explained how the monster trio made progress. Even if its sounds far-fetched, whereby I would agree with u.. we have to accept that.



I'll make a guess, and say that you two believe that he probably came up with Gears some time between wearing his blue shorts and changing them with black ones. Like he knew that he will have to eat to recover his strenght. So basically he learned Gears and knew everything about them after such a short time.Well, to be not so specific I guess better saying "some time between the first encounter with CP9 on W7 and Enis Lobby" is better xD But u r right, he could have came up with that while changing his pants.

Since its counted 1 2 3 4 .. xD I guess he came up with G3 right after G2 or even at the same time.


i believe luffy thought abt gear 2 just after he met akoiji.
Well, maybe Luffy gave some thoughts into Gear 2 after AoKiji or he even had that name in his mind. But he could have only came up with that completed technique after W7.

Proof: Luffy sees soru on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/348/06/) -> Luffy notes he has a new technqie while travelling to Enis Lobby (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/) -> Luffy is glad that he met CP9 and Blueno confirms Luffys Soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/). Without Luffy seeing CP9s Soru, Gear 2 wouldn't have been complete. So to answer this thread, he learned Gear 2 some time between W7 and Enis Lobby.



@blackhair: i dont agree with u abt this part

by pumping more oxygen EVENLY (hence gear 2) into his body he is able to increase his atk power, atk speed, and movement speed. soro was onli a bonus to further increase his movement speed IMO. and i agree with u abt luffy using the gears at the first time in enis lobby (but he alreadi completed the ideas abt the gears before hand). Lucci said by increasing the blood pressure his physical ability increases by far. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/) So it could be just like u said, that beside his speed also his power increases, Im not denying the possibility. But since Gear 3 is about brutal strength, I thought Gear 2 only focuses on more speed through that a rise in damage. So not rly a power up of brutal strength for Gear 2. Anyway its irrelevant and I don't wanne rly argue about that xD



how i read the cp9 encounter water 7 incident was that luffy was more concerned abt robin rather than fighting the cp9, if u try reading it again luffy was never serious abt fighting the cp9, he was more concerned abt hearing the answer from robin rather than pay attention to his surroundings (we can see this in the amazon part, he was easily defeated and captured by the amazons) if he was forced, i believe he woulda of used his gears in water 7 if he heard the story there.None of us said, Luffy went sightseeing in IceBergs room, he was certainly concerned about Robin. But don't u think he would also pay attention to those guys who he is fighting against?

I believe u missed some parts of our posts. Its already proven that Luffy payed attention to CP9s fightings style: Luffy explains what he noticed (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/). That can be only after the first encounter, 'cause he noted a new technique in the train (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/).

I keep repeating my sentences, I know its annoying, it even starts to piss me off :p Last time in this post: It is in the manga indicated that soru triggered Gear 2. Luffy came up with the completed G2 some time between W7 and Enis Lobby.

gfire2
October 18, 2008, 10:42 PM
Proof: Luffy sees soru on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/348/06/) -> Luffy notes he has a new technqie while travelling to Enis Lobby (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/) -> Luffy is glad that he met CP9 and Blueno confirms Luffys Soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/). Without Luffy seeing CP9s Soru, Gear 2 wouldn't have been complete. So to answer this thread, he learned Gear 2 some time between W7 and Enis Lobby.

I believe u missed some parts of our posts. Its already proven that Luffy payed attention to CP9s fightings style: Luffy explains what he noticed (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/). That can be only after the first encounter, 'cause he noted a new technique in the train (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/).

[/i]

there realli is no rite or wrong answer its just how u interpret stuffs, ur so called proof is not realli proof it just interpretations that u used to come up with ur conclusion but my conclusion is different to urs.



None of us said, Luffy went sightseeing in IceBergs room, he was certainly concerned about Robin. But don't u think he would also pay attention to those guys who he is fighting against?
[/i]

u didnt understand my post, my interpretation is that luffy didnt have the resolve to fite the cp9, it was onli he learnt that robin sacraficed herself to save the crew luffy decided to rescue her at all costs



I keep repeating my sentences, I know its annoying, it even starts to piss me off :p Last time in this post: It is in the manga indicated that soru triggered Gear 2. Luffy came up with the completed G2 some time between W7 and Enis Lobby.

u dont have to try to force every1 onto ur ideals and interpretations, every1 has their own. and i dont find that soru was the trigger for gear 2, it was just the technique that completed gear 2 (just like how kakaishi used chidori and wasnt completed until he got the sharingan)

we need a poll!!

Tsukisama
October 18, 2008, 10:47 PM
we need a poll!!

I could add a poll, but I don't know what would be the appropriate poll choices. The topic of this thread does not seem to necessitate a poll. This topic is more about speculation on when Luffy may have lear this new move. If there is a proper demand for one though, a poll would be added.

BlackHair
October 18, 2008, 11:21 PM
I had no intention to force my viewpoint nor I wanted to piss ppl off. I know my post was/are kind of offensive, but that's just my way of explaining things. Sry about that.

I know It will sound offensive again, but anyway..

As far as I see, this thread is a simple question: "When did Luffy lean G2?" So saying "some time between AoKiji and EL" is not wrong. But with help of the manga, we can shorten the timespan to "some time between W7 (first encounter with CP9) and EL".


[..]and i dont find that soru was the trigger for gear 2, it was just the technique that completed gear 2 U just supported my viewpoint. Though I used the word trigger, I meant just like u, that seeing soru was necessary to complete G2, as I explained in my previous posts.

So basically "some time between W7 and EN" I don't get why we are arguing.


I could add a poll, but I don't know what would be the appropriate poll choices. The topic of this thread does not seem to necessitate a poll. This topic is more about speculation on when Luffy may have lear this new move. If there is a proper demand for one though, a poll would be added.
If poll, then I guess 1. Between AoKiji and EL or 2. Between W7 (first encounter with CP9) and EL..
sth like that.

regards
Bhair

Stop
October 18, 2008, 11:22 PM
Well this is obviously just one of the great mysteries of the world of one piece if you think about it to much your head is gonna blow up

monkey D luffy
October 19, 2008, 11:49 AM
Well, Zoro enveloped a new cutting technique while fighting Mr.1. At first he wasn't able to cut steel, but right before the end he was. He enveloped a new technique within a few minutes. So why is that unthinkable that Luffy & Co came up with their new moves in couple of hours after W7? One Piece is unique, you can't compare its fighting enveloping with other shounen series.

If its about fighting every of those Monster trio are genius, actually every SH is. While fighting with Oz they came up with a strategy to defeat him and that's actually without any kind of strategy discussion.

Just my opinion, its not clearly stated when they learned, though I believe after their first encounter with CP9. Anyway, it has to be some time after AoKiji, that's for sure.

about zoro, he knew that technique was there, also he knew that he could hear the breath of things cuz hes master told him that years ago he just couldnt grap that until that point where hes determination reached its peak.



*) This scene (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/) where, Luffy expresses his understanding of the need to grow stronger and that he found a way to do it. (You would have to interpret it pretty heavily to make it say much more than that.)

you just said it your self: luffy stated that he knows how to get stronger and he found out the way after fighting aokiji enough said. he didnt use any other technique other then gear second and third.

whats more luffy said after unleashing gear 2nd that blueno can no longer follow him which means his movement is beyond soru.

also blueno used soru when he fought luffy and luffy still punched him in regular mode. i think that thats the meaning of understanding soru, once luffy understood it he could keep up with it.



My view on this is that it was developed before the Blueno fight simply because the gear 3 thing is so hard to argue against. Sure it’s possible to develop both gear 2 and gear 3 at that moment (though highly unlikely) but Luffy’s attitude after he hits Blueno with the Jet Bazooka is like he had already developed and had experience with gear 3. I can’t remember if the Blueno fight was before or after he took down that huge door with gear 3 when Chimney and the cat/bunny was following him but either that or Luffy’s attitude suggests that gear 3 was known before the Blueno fight. So because of that, I don’t think gear 2 was created right then and there.


i agree with you here. its seems like lufy knew what was going to happen in gear 3rd and yeah he could learn that technique after fighting with aokiji but then gear 3rd would have been fear 2nd and gear 2nd would have been gear 3rd. also luffy couldnt learn gear 3rd from cp9 as far as i can remember no one used this kind of attack and luffy is basiclly the only one capeable of doing it.

BlackHair
October 19, 2008, 08:10 PM
about zoro, he knew that technique was there, also he knew that he could hear the breath of things cuz hes master told him that years ago he just couldnt grap that until that point where hes determination reached its peak.Thats right, but the fight with Mr1 was necessary to let Zoro reach his peak. Without that fight, Zoro wouldn't have leanred to cut steel. So while his previous experience was needed, it was also necessary to fight Mr.1 <-My point.

Now Luffy only managed to get Gear 2 complete thx to CP9s fighting style. Seriously imo its damn obvious:
We know Luffy saw soru while fighting CP9 on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/348/06/).
While riding to EL, he comments that he has a new technique which he would like to test (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/376/05/).
Later on EL, while fighting Bluneo Luffy explains what he has noticed during their first encounter on W7 (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/). Luffy is talking about Soru!
He said himself, he was glad to met them (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/03/), basically he was thanking them.
Blueno confirms after Luffy using G2, that he has figured out how to use soru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/07/)(Panel 3 and 4).

After he was beaten by AoKiji, he only wanted to get stronger. So he could have thought about G2, maybe he even had that name (=Gear) in his mind. Im not denying the possibility! But G2 was only complete after seeing soru! So without CP9 on W7, Gear 2 wouldn't have been complete. Basically saying "some time between AoKiji and EL" is not wrong. But with help of the manga, we can shorten the timespan to "some time between W7 (first encounter with CP9) and EL".

Like with Zoro, the fight with Mr.1 was necessary as well as the previous experiences to come up with the steel cutting technique. To get his ass beaten up by AoKiji is also one of Luffy's previous experiences, witch was also needed.


Imo everything is obviously hinted. For now, this will be my last post in this thread. Plz take ur time to read this post. Every hint is a small piece of puzzle, if u join them together this damn puzzle will be complete. I will go with Stop (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1074575&postcount=36) xD.

LeKuaSimi
January 08, 2010, 05:53 AM
perharps luffy got help from sanji and zoro and they formulated their new attacks (which needs an increase in speed too oO) together?

beastboy
January 08, 2010, 04:33 PM
For me is something like:
Luffy came up with a tecnique to beat Aokiji... Gear 2... is intent was to make the ice melt.. and then he created gear 3.. based on the giants... to do the finisher...
But gear 2 was pretty useless... cause it only tired him faster, and somewhat increased is speed...
Once he saw Soru closely.. he was able to clearly ee how they moved so fast... but it was impossible for him to kick the ground 10 times..
So what.. he had a tecnich who slighty increased is speed.. and it was enough to make use of soru..

thats how I see it...

monkey D luffy
January 08, 2010, 04:41 PM
i agree with beastboy. first we need to sperate soru and gear 2nd. gear 2nd makes luffy hotter and therefore he obviouly learned it after thje utter defeat against aokiji. however he did learn soru after watching the members of cp9 carefully, he makes use of soru while hje is in gear 2nd, gear 2nd is not soru.

hossice
January 09, 2010, 10:00 PM
in all honesty on my part i actually believe he got the idea for the legs from the bellamy thing. but used the CP9 stuff to encorporate the idea of blood flow. just my opinion

LeKuaSimi
January 10, 2010, 01:27 AM
belamy? Now that sounds somewhat possible oO

Poneglyph420
January 10, 2010, 03:18 AM
Seems like Luffy got the Idea from seeing the train, and perhaps during the events in Water 7. For sure Luffy knew he needed to do something to get stronger.. When him and Blueno meet again at EL Luffy says he's glad he got to meet them (CP9). That to me says he figured these techniques "on the fly" after meeting CP9 and getting pwned.

Luffy IMO just goes on instinct anyways, so I assumed he just kinda figured it out.

Zeltrax
January 10, 2010, 04:22 AM
It's just weird to me that Luffy never explained how he came up with Gear 3rd, especially if he explained how he developed Gear 2nd. Assuming he wasn't thinking only about assimilating Soru.
I don't buy that "after he came up with Gear 2nd, he started thinking about more ways to enhance his body".
There just wasn't enough time, since creating such techniques really requires some serious thought put into it. Not that Luffy isn't capable of that, just that there wasn't enough time.

I'll make a guess, and say that you two believe that he probably came up with Gears some time between wearing his blue shorts and changing them with black ones. Like he knew that he will have to eat to recover his strenght. So basically he learned Gears and knew everything about them after such a short time.
Isn't that just a bit of a stretch?

I'm betting everything I have here and say that Gear 3rd is inspired before w7, aokiji, and enies lobby. Crazy, yeah sure. But luffy always admire the giants, I mean before fighting Aokiji, maybe he dint think about becoming stronger. Gear 3rd might be on his mind a long time ago, but he din't want to use it. But what about the name? Well simple, the reason for "Gear..." is because of the train right?
So heres my theory:
Gear 3rd was though up BEFORE gear 2nd, but luffy din't bother to use it until he realizes he have to go against cp9. i mean, he went to a giant island right?
He din't give gear 3rd any name, din't use it cos he din't feel the need for it, heck, maybe he doesn't even know how to use it yet like Haki.

Gear 2nd is developed during the trip from w7 to Enies Lobby, reason simply becos he saw how the cp9 fight and develop the technique based on instincts. I'm guessing luffy never really bothered about Gear 3rd, and he just gave it the name becos he wanted to have another form .
Not to mention there were 2 giants on enies lobby too.
"Then, why din't he use gear 3rd against cp9 the first time?"
Simple, he'll hit everyone there with that damn arm.

So its like this
Luffy realizes that he have gear 3rd-> din't give a damn-> aokiji attacks->cp9 attacks-> got gear 2nd becos he witnessed soru and how cp 9 fights-> develop gear 2nd -> realized that he CAN use gear 3rd because he wanted an alternative fighting style-> named them gear 2nd and gear 3rd.

My crazy theory, oh well.

Raist
January 10, 2010, 10:39 AM
I'd have to agree with Razh, but I'll present some different evidence why I believe that since I believe Razh's evidence doesn't back his theory that much:
Firstly he knew the effects of both G2 and G3 before using them:

Here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/19/) he knew how fast Blueno is, and how fast G2 will make him before he made the statement, Luffy never bragged before, not even when he was up against a weakling like Bellamy, so I don't see him making groundless statements on untested powers. And since he said all of his moves not just his speed tells me he did a lot of testing not just one try on the Rocketman.

Also after witnessing the fact that Blueno with his tekai gou was able to take a Jet Bazooka and is still standing he went for the Gear that gave him more pure power. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/12/)
Which basically shows that he knows both strengths and weaknesses of both gears. So my guess goes towards that both G2 and G3 were developed between the fight with Aokiji and the train ride.
Some more evidence:
Luffy knowing that G3 is the best bet to get the door opened fast. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/403/18/)
Luffy unfazed that he shrunk to 1/10 of his normal size. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/403/19/)

Now about the train and testing thing I believe that he wanted to test out soru which he picked up from his brief encounter with CP9(which is much more amazing then watching Blueno do it countless times) and found to be amazingly synergistic with his already developed G2, not only did it allow him to move faster then just G2 but it also virtually eliminated the time between attacks making G2 which has a rather nasty drawback of draining his strength at an alarming rate, much more usable since combat will be done that much faster.

About G2,G3, Asura and Diable Jambe, the reason I think why they were used when they were used is because none of the SHs believed the attacks trully battle ready, since we see that all 4 attacks take a decent time to get ready and were basically used as a last resort since the users weren't sure they would have the time to prepare them or that they will be able to use them properly.

Now the only attack that we are sure was developed on the spot the ability to cut steel (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/195/18/), we see that after Zoro is finally able to feel the breath of things he test it by trying not to cut the leaves and cutting the rock without applying too much strength. He doesn't make a baseless statement that he is able to cut steel or that he will finish it in 1 blow.

Wrath
January 14, 2010, 09:30 PM
Saying that they came up with such awesome techniques in just a couple of hours they were on the Rocketman, is too much, even for One Piece.
By that belief, Luffy should have picked up on Haki and beaten Kizaru by now.
He should be on around Gear 6 or something.

That's just too much.

Isn't it clearly stated in manga, that the SH were stronger on Enies Lobby than in Galley-La mansion because of their conviction and morale boost, because they knew Robin was taken against her will.

EDIT: Correction. Not clearly stated, but rather strongly alluded. You know, that old One Piece crap about Nakamas and unity and all that.I've never been certain why people ignored this in favour of believing they magically got stronger while travelling to EL. After all we saw how Luffy was stuck between two buildings and only found the strength to free himself after being told that Robin was trying to protect the crew.

As for the whole Gear 2 thing, well, I've always thought it was pretty clear. Luffy gets owned by Aokiji, starts to think of ways to get stronger, but doesn't have a proper chance to test them out in a fight until EL because in Water 7 he was conflicted due to Robin's seeming betrayal.

Gear 2 then is an incomplete technique to increase his stamina/physical abilities that only really becomes useful when he meets Blueno and learns Soru. Hence being glad that he met Blueno HERE, rather than in W7. We merely associate Gear 2 with superspeed because that's how it was used in its finished form, because only in that state is Luffy capable of using Soru, probably due to the fact that he didn't properly train for it. That also explains why Sanji and Zoro didn't just rip off the moves they saw.

Omnion_1990
January 18, 2010, 04:15 AM
Well the way i see it he discovered it in the seventh movie, which happens before the main water 7. when that turtle thing hits hit with force luffys legs pump only once?? and he even comments on where that spurt of strength came from. i think this is also after encounter with aokiji cos then he wouldve thought about using it.

but the reason why he didnt use it earlier in water 7 is because i dont think its wise to show your enemy your trumpcard when you know nothing about them. also it took long years for them to master soru, and i think going into gear 2 gave luffys leg muscles the strength to unlock "soru" and it pumped blood around his body faster greatly increasing his metabolic rate.

maaghms
January 20, 2010, 11:24 PM
I don’t know whether anybody has done this but I present my unified solution to most problems raised by people regarding Gears.

It is quite “proven” that Gear 2nd was invented after Luffy’s first fight with CP9. There is no doubt about it because there is a very strong evidence (or even “fact”) that Soru was the basis for Gear 2nd.

I know, I know.. The problem people are having is that there is no way Gear 3rd can be developed in the train (as Luffy wasn’t surprised by the Chibi size in Enis Lobby). And they are correct.

A likely answer is this:

Gear 2nd was developed after first fight with CP9 by observing Soru.
Gear 3rd was invented after the fight with Aokiji and before Water 7 Arc.

So now people have the problem with the naming system, i.e. why call it Gear 3rd if it was developed before Gear 2nd?

The answer is that there is no evidence that the naming system for the Gears is chronological. It might be based on strength or power of the respective Gears. Heck, it might even be random.
Who says that Luffy named those Gears one by one as they came out? He could have developed those Gears way before boarding the train and on the train, we could have simply given the fancy names “Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd” based on the attack power.

RichardMNixon
January 21, 2010, 12:15 AM
There's a lot more to Gear Second than just soru, if anything soru is enabled by gear second and not the other way around: he's able to do soru because he can move faster; he needs to kick the ground ten times in an instant. His punches in gear second also move faster than the eye can see.

LeKuaSimi
January 21, 2010, 02:57 AM
he thought of the idea of gear second and third, one to increase his speed, the other his strength. At first he did not know how to make himself faster, but thought of inflating his bones first. Later, he saw soru and learnt Gear 2, and decided to call it that as he probably hit on the idea of making himself faster, before the idea of making himself faster.

ckkdlek
February 02, 2010, 09:17 PM
err or maybe, gear 2 = a lot of steam and heat (?) so luffy thought it could help him against aokiji, but AFTER seeing soru, applied it to gear 2?

SgtPepper
December 14, 2010, 02:46 AM
Immediately after Luffy enters gear second for the first time, during the fight against Blueno:

Blueno: Whats that mist? Is this his imitation of a steam engine?

Luffy: Im glad i met you all here. Thanks to you, my nakama will be safe for a long time.

Blueno: Isnt it because of us that youre about to lose your nakama?

Luffy: When i fought ao kiji, i thought about it. If strong guys like this are going to appear on our road ahead, ill need to become stronger. Im glad that i met you all here. Because of you, ill be able to protect my nakama for a long time.

---

Conversation between Blueno and Luffy points towards soru inspiring his ideas for the gears. If that is false, it would mean that Luffy thought the speed of soru alone would make the difference for saving his nakama, and not the gears.

If Luffy could've used gear second or third you can be damn sure he would've used it in the mansion before Robin jumped out the window.

There is no explicit proof given that it wasnt learnt on the journey to water seven, but there was no hinting to new techniques at all until after the mansion fight.

Seeing the feet tapping for soru which increased blood flow, gave him the idea to do the same using his rubber legs, creating gear second.

No explanation at all was given on how he could have possibly conceived the idea of gear third, and the only info given was Lucci's analysis and Luffy's thoughts during their battle. One can only speculate the idea of pumping blood through his veins for speed led to pumping air into his bones for power

I agree with almost all maaghms' points, except for one: When Luffy was in the mansion and got tekkai'd and wasnt strong enough to damage, i find it extremely unlikely he wouldnt have tried to use gear third if he had any idea how. I agree, its huge size is a bit of a stretch to fit on the train, but its not like his ship is any bigger or more convenient to practice on.

As for the naming system, it should just be ignored since no basis is really given for it anyways.

And as for "but the reason why he didnt use it earlier in water 7 is because i dont think its wise to show your enemy your trumpcard when you know nothing about them. also it took long years for them to master soru, and i think going into gear 2 gave luffys leg muscles the strength to unlock "soru" and it pumped blood around his body faster greatly increasing his metabolic rate."
- Trumpcards are made to be used before you get the snot beaten out of you and your friends stolen, and i dont see how a faster metabolism is gonna win any fights.. unless he starts off really bloated?

---

Top half fact

Bottom half opinion

Cizuz
December 14, 2010, 05:27 PM
There's a lot more to Gear Second than just soru, if anything soru is enabled by gear second and not the other way around: he's able to do soru because he can move faster; he needs to kick the ground ten times in an instant. His punches in gear second also move faster than the eye can see.

Actually no. In one piece universe gear second is absolutely nothing special. It is brilliant but not special.

Luffy noticed that with soru they are increasing blood flow and moving faster as well as increasing their reaction time. He tried doing the same techic but probably failed. After that due to his rubber body he can let it stretch so his only variation is he pumps his legs 10 times a second instead of hitting the ground 10 times a second, pumping his blood a lot.

The thing is, anyone can do this, the ONLY thing that makes luffy special is while most people would die when their blood pressure goes to the point of busting veins or causing a heart attack, however due to rubber body and rubber veins, his body can take his heart going 300, 400 bpm as an example.

hisoga
January 18, 2011, 02:46 AM
i'm sorry, but why the hell people thought gear 2 was based on Soru? gear 2 is a technique that boosted Luffy physical strength and speed.. thats mean luffy can punch much harder and faster in G2 mode than in normal condition.. in G2, luffy also can move much faster and allow him to copy Soru.. that is the only connection between G2 and Soru..

matzik1212
January 18, 2011, 02:12 PM
i personally think that he came up with gear2 after he saw the CP9's techinques more exactly when he and zoro were defeted at iceburg's house when the CP9's identities were revelead...i mean i think is obvious he came up with gear2 after he saw the soru technique after all he even thanked blueno that he encountered them now and that this kind of technique exists... :) i don't really see how the encounter with aokiji brought gear2 to life ;)

[QUOTE=hisoga;2255844]
actually soru was the base of gear2 and that thing even luffy admitted just like i said above

MaiSiaoSiao
January 19, 2011, 07:57 AM
I cant see the similarities between Soru and G2.
Soru allows the user to move quickly around by KICKING the same spot over 10times in an instant.

G2 allows Luffy to attack much faster.Thats why its called Jet Pistol/w/e he uses.not Soru Pistol.Well maybe Luffy did combine Soru moving speed with G2 Attack speed.But its 2 completely different thing.

Luffy said so himself.After being defeated by Aokiji he"ll have to get stronger so that he can protect his crew mates for a long time.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2494-16/one-piece/chapter-387.html

Razh
January 21, 2011, 04:02 PM
I already discussed here like 2 years ago but I can't bare not to write something else.

It's a proven fact that Luffy wasn't strong enough to use Soru outside of his gear. So how could he use the principle of Soru to activate Gear 2nd? It's also worth mentioning that he doesn't kick the ground wen activating Gear 2nd, so there's no basis for that.

And another thing people still keep mentioning. Why didn't Luffy use Gears in the Galley-la mansion? Way to totally miss the point. Luffy, as all the other SH was confused and demoralized by what Robin has done. Then, when they found out what was really happening they received a morale boost and actually had a reason to fight. It was Oda's message about friendship and how you can be a lot more determined and stronger when you're fighting to protect something, or someone. In fact, it's a recurring lesson in Shounen mangas and I'm pretty sure all of you came across it more than once.

smoothmeduso
March 25, 2011, 02:22 PM
Honestly its given he learns how to use his version of soru(gear second) after watching cp9 fight, because he clearly states i saw you kick your leg 10 times and he says im thankful for you guys because now i can move foward protecting my nakama. right before that he said he lost to aokiji and wanted to find a way to get stronger so he can keep his nakama who are weaker than him, this is where people are getting confused he said this because aokiji could have killed robin and luffy couldn't have done anything about it.

my theory on how gear second works is like a steam engine he uses his legs as pumps and speeds up his blood flow to the point of his rubber body using his blood as if its water(steroids) making heat killing blood cells producing steam note the pinkish color of his skin.Also i think he uses tekkai when he punches to make fist harder than steel.

For gear third i think he learned it from watching franky do coupe de vente (the force of air), he already knew gum gum balloon and i think he combined that with franky's coupe de vent after seeing him do it he also moves some of his bones to the limb he is about to use combing the bones to make a giant's arm leg body etc also combining tekkai condensing the air that he blew through his finger into a single limb for a killer move.

kkck
March 25, 2011, 02:51 PM
We already know how gear second works. Luffy uses his legs to pump his blood and increase the speed at which it circulates his body. It gives him extra energy so to speak. That much was already explained in the manga.

smoothmeduso
March 25, 2011, 05:45 PM
yeah im giving my opinion on this thank you for reading my post though we should all know how gear 3rd works too because its giving in the manga and from what its call bone fusion.

eefrit
March 25, 2011, 08:43 PM
I think it is a mix of both. He thought up of ways to get stronger after his fight with Aokiji but couldn't think of a proper way to execute it as efficiently as he wanted to. After facing the CP9 however, he came up with the final piece of the puzzle which resulted in Gear Second. Gear Third is a little more mysterious. We see him casually walking away from door he broke, however that could be just because he didn't care about the side effects, as Robin was his only goal. He probably came up with Gear Third by thinking of the giants from the Little Garden Arc. I would think to much about this one however, as he BITES THROUGH BONE in order to activate it. I have no honest clue what gave him the idea to do that.