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View Full Version : Discussion Is Kuma as Strong as We Think?



GeckoMoria
October 15, 2008, 02:53 PM
alot of people regard Kuma as "top tier shichibuaki" but what has he really done thats so overpowering? lets look back on Kumas exploits. He defeated the entire strawhat crew twice but in both cases they were horribly beaten up from either fighting Moria+Oz(the first time) and then Kizaru, sentomaru, and 2 PXes. So far i say the most impressive stuff hes done would be detonating thriller bark and back talking kizaru. Kuma has yet to actually stomp out an opponent who is at 100% and who is decently strong. I vote him more as an engima and a cool character but it remains to be seen if he is actually "top tier". Your thoughts?

p.s. i know Kuma was called the "violent-kun" but as to why well that was off panel and off panel doesn't prove much here.

Onomatopoeia
October 15, 2008, 03:09 PM
Well first Gecko is seriously worried about him even more so then the rest of the Sichi(Mihawk included). His DF is pretty haxxed giving the definte power to be top tier Sichibuki. He's been pretty hyped.

PX-4 is a model which isn't even on the same continent as Kuma. Yet it could probablly take 2 out of three people in the Monster Trio 2v1(and win).

Sure it's nothing but Powerscaling and reasoning but thats like saying Mihawk has shown nothing that puts him at top tier since the only thing he pwned was an East Blue Zoro who would die in two seconds against even an injured TB Zoro.

BlackHair
October 15, 2008, 08:26 PM
Im putting Mihawk on Yonkou/Admiral lvl, while Kuma a bit under. I think its already clear that Gecko and Croco are not on last tier lvl, since Luffy already beat them and he can't be on that lvl right now (since OP is on about 50%). Hancock, Flamingo and Jimbei can't be estimated yet.

About Kuma, Im just power scaling him with the SHs. The whole group defeated with immense efforts a pacifista, while Kuma must be with his DF a lot stronger then those.

Mwk must be on last tier lvl, 'cause he is the ultimate goal of Zoro and he is carrying the title strongest swordsman. Since I believe Zoro will defeat Mwk near the end of OP, there must be much space for him to grow. As he is now, he probably can't beat him yet. I also believe Mwk is stronger than Shanks, who is a Yonko.

bittman
October 16, 2008, 07:14 AM
Yeah I'd generally agree with what blackhair says, but I would just group Blackbeard, Mihawk and Kuma together in the top tier. No sense saying "well Mihawk is a bit better" if you're going to make tiers, since he would have to be on a whole other level to be seen that far above Kuma.

How I see it:
Top - Blackbeard, Mihawk, Kuma
Middle - Doflamingo, Moria, (Jimbei?)
Low - Hancock, [Crocodile], (JImbei?)

Should be self explanatory. Jimbei is ??? only because we haven't seen him, but I would wager he won't be one of the more important Shichibukai's. Hancock is low only because of what we've seen so far, if she pulls out a decent Haki move she may bump to Middle. However, if Luffy beats her in this arc without any support, even if he's within an inch of his life, she stays Low tier.

BlackHair
October 16, 2008, 07:29 AM
I totally forget BB xD.

but I would just group Blackbeard, Mihawk and Kuma together in the top tier.I totally agree with u. I just said "a bit" 'cause I believe Kuma isn't as strong as Mwk and BB. But they must be in same class, like u said.

But I think ur underestimating Hancock.

However, if Luffy beats her in this arc without any support, even if he's within an inch of his life, she stays Low tier.
If Luffy beats her with Gear 2+3+haki then there was more needed to beat her unlike Croco. U can't put them in the same tier.

Onomatopoeia
October 16, 2008, 03:52 PM
If Hancock gets beaten by Luffy using Gear 2+3 and Haki I'm not sure whether I would put her at above or below Moria. Sure Moria was beaten pretty badly near the end but he also got hit by a ton of different things. Though to be fair so did Luffy, meh.

I might put Hancock a bit above Moria simply because Luffy may have to use Haki. Anyways Moria is a wild card, if he had played it wisely then I think he would have been able to have had a much better chance against 2+3.

kkck
October 16, 2008, 04:51 PM
I think moria would have stood a better chance of defeating luffy if he had never absorbed all those shadows though. By doing that he turned himself into a massive bullseye for luffy to punch. Also moria in that state was almost like a wild animal. He could barely control himself.

Tomgoood01
October 16, 2008, 11:30 PM
Back to the fight with Kuma at TB when after Kuma did his air bomb, Zoro even thought exhausted from the battle with the Samurai, Oz and Moria he was able to strike a blow against Kuma. The attack was a bit of a ambush so kuma may have been taken from surprise but Kuma was in fit condition to be able to doge such an attack. While Zoro was out of shape to be at his fastest and strongest. So with that said if Kuma had not had his cyborg body he might have taken a serious injury.

Comparing it to Mihawk or shanks or even white beard who don't have such kind of bodies i think they would be able to block or doge such an attack. For that could be the reason why Kuma has such an body being that he does not have the ability or power as the rest of the top tier people of OP. Making Kuma weaker than we actually think he is.

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 12:10 AM
Back to the fight with Kuma at TP when after Kuma did his air bomb Zoro even thought exhausted from the battle with he Samurai, Oz and Moria he was able to strike a blow against Kuma. The attack was a bit of a ambush so kuma may have been taken from surprise but Kuma was in fit condition to be able to doge such an attack. While Zoro was out of shape to be at his fastest and strongest. So with that said if Kuma had not had his cyborg body he might have taken a serious injury.
thx for pointing this out. For exact that reason I said earlier "a bit". And tbh Im not sure by putting him in the last tier. But he seems to have himself made a big name and that's why Im not rly sure. Kuma is certainly strong and way stronger than the SHs right now.

About Moria, its his own fault for using shadow asgard for that extent, by using 1k shadows. Its just shows his lack in experience and a cool mind.

Absolutio
October 17, 2008, 06:27 AM
Back to the fight with Kuma at TB when after Kuma did his air bomb, Zoro even thought exhausted from the battle with the Samurai, Oz and Moria he was able to strike a blow against Kuma. The attack was a bit of a ambush so kuma may have been taken from surprise but Kuma was in fit condition to be able to doge such an attack. While Zoro was out of shape to be at his fastest and strongest. So with that said if Kuma had not had his cyborg body he might have taken a serious injury.

Comparing it to Mihawk or shanks or even white beard who don't have such kind of bodies i think they would be able to block or doge such an attack. For that could be the reason why Kuma has such an body being that he does not have the ability or power as the rest of the top tier people of OP. Making Kuma weaker than we actually think he is.

I quite disagree with you.. It's the same with Luffy.. You know how many times in the OP series Luffy had been hitted by surprise by pistol bullets, and he survived "only because of his rubber body" (which reminds of the "only because of his cyborg body").. If he didn't have his rubber body, he would've been way more cautious and could've dodged the bullets easily. Being immune to those attacks, such as Kuma is immune to the attacks he recieved, makes them less aware of them, but if needed, Kuma could easily dodge/repel it.

Aside from that, Kuma has one of the most unique and best self-developed Devil Fruits. Look what he achieved with a "simple" Paramecia Repel fruit.
-He can repel anything, including both physical entities and mental entities.
-He can move himself around so fast that it seems like teleportation.
-He can make people fly for 3 days and 3 nights for a destination he chooses.
And aside from that, he also got upgraded with a very very very strong Cyborg body and capabilities. Even Zoro couldn't cut his metalic body, not to mention that just a simple model of him (the pacifista), that only has his cyboric capabilities, not his fighting experience/capabilities or DF powers, took all of the crew to defeat, and they were exhausted.
Kuma is very strong and very deadly, and is one of the most unique characters we've been introduced to so far.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 04:14 PM
If Kuma had wanted to he could have easily dodged that attack and that jibe at his body is like attacking Luffy because he "only" has rubber body. Were counting all of their abilities. If he didn't have his body he would be more cautious but with a body like that he doesn't have to care.

Honestly Kuma's paw could possibly damage Logia's...

BlackHair
October 17, 2008, 04:56 PM
True, with Kumas body he don't rly have to be careful as normal humans do. But he used one of his attacks and expected everyone to be unconsciousness, which wasn't true. Basically he did a half ass job by underestimating the SHs. Its different than walking down the street knowing there are guys pointing guns at you.

Kiz for example used his attacks on the SN and knew for sure that they are not in a state to move any more. Basically Im expecting if Kiz or AoKiji was in Kumas position, Zoro wouldn't probably be able to do that attack.

To avoid misunderstandings, Kuma is strong and way stronger than the SHs. Im not doubting his powers, but we are talking if he is or not in the last tier. And Im not sure by putting him in that fighting power class.

Tomgoood01
October 17, 2008, 08:57 PM
If Kuma had wanted to he could have easily dodged that attack and that jibe at his body is like attacking Luffy because he "only" has rubber body. Were counting all of their abilities. If he didn't have his body he would be more cautious but with a body like that he doesn't have to care.

So are you saying Kuma wanted to get hit on purpose ( kuma was watching the SH fight with Moria and OZ he knows their strength at his level that is basic he saw Zoro's attacks and he knows that his cyborg body could be damaged [we have proof of that with the pacifista fight] i doubt he stood there ready to have a try) because in the picture it sure didn't look that way. Pretty simple Kuma couldn't have dodge that attack .

Mainly in that fight Zoro was running at 30% max so if that attack was 3 or 4 times stronger we know there would be extensive damage. Here is the Big question if Mihawk was in Zoro's shoes how much more damage do you think Kuma would have taken i think for sure it would be life threatening. The point I'm trying to make is Kuma is not in the top tier category and with that fight it clearly shows it. FOR ALL YOU KUMA LOVERS OUT THERE WHO CANT ACCEPT IT WELL YOUR JUST LETTING YOUR FEELINGS GET IN THE WAY TO MAKE A CLEAR JUDGMENT. No offense by the way. That is all I'm going to say about this topic.

Onomatopoeia
October 17, 2008, 09:28 PM
So are you saying Kuma wanted to get hit on purpose ( kuma was watching the SH fight with Moria and OZ he knows their strength at his level that is basic he saw Zoro's attacks and he knows that his cyborg body could be damaged [we have proof of that with the pacifista fight] i doubt he stood there ready to have a try) because in the picture it sure didn't look that way. Pretty simple Kuma couldn't have dodge that attack .

Mainly in that fight Zoro was running at 30% max so if that attack was 3 or 4 times stronger we know there would be extensive damage. Here is the Big question if Mihawk was in Zoro's shoes how much more damage do you think Kuma would have taken i think for sure it would be life threatening. The point I'm trying to make is Kuma is not in the top tier category and with that fight it clearly shows it. FOR ALL YOU KUMA LOVERS OUT THERE WHO CANT ACCEPT IT WELL YOUR JUST LETTING YOUR FEELINGS GET IN THE WAY TO MAKE A CLEAR JUDGMENT. No offense by the way. That is all I'm going to say about this topic.

Exacta!

Kuma saw the fight happen, he knew what the Strawhats were capable together and at full power. We also know that a Pacifista(who I'm 99% sure has a weaker body then Kuma's) body's was only taken down by everyone at full power and together and even then it took forever, we also know that the same Kuma bot could take a combined attack of a 36 Pound Cannon Moutan Jet and get back up again with no real damage and then take a crapload more damage before those attacks landed and after and was still going after taking Asura, Diable Jamble,etc. and even then damaging the SHs to the extreme's which means based on his sluggishness he must have tanked at least 10-15 attacks from each of the Monster Trio. Do you know what that means for Kuma? He could literally tank TB Zoro's attacks for above an hour and be fine.

Your arguement was good until the second paragraph, none of us has said that Kuma>Mihawk. I personally believe the exact opposite, but it is not a huge difference it's probablly bigger then the difference between Ray and Kizaru but not by to much. DON'T TYPE IN CAPS IT MAKES MY EYE'S BLEED.

paradoxe
October 18, 2008, 01:54 AM
I don't think Doflamingo should be lumped into the 'middle' section. Hes been built up to be a pretty nasty character, and we know what happens to nasty charcters don't we? Besides, hes been hyped up, his power seems imbalanced and hes shown to have guts as well (remember how he was messing with some top level marines in their own hq?)

Host Samurai
October 18, 2008, 03:13 AM
I think Kuma really belongs at the top of the Schichibukai because of that what we have seen so far was very impressive.

1. of his body size, people seem to forget that he is a giant with an robotic body!
2. his speed and DF!
3. he possess as an extra Kizaru's beam and he still is an incomplete Pacifista!

And for the fact that will see him again as an perfected Pacifista build by Vegapunk. Kuma can get stronger, now the question is how strong can he become?

This is my rank for the other Schichibukai
Top: Mihawk, Jimbei, Kuma
Middle: Blackbeard, Do Flamingo, Moria
Low: Hancock, Crocodile

Now to Jimbei I put him on the highest tier because he is a fishman and they're phisically stronger than humans. I re-read the Arlong Arc and I remembered why fishman are strong Arlong threw water at Zoro and Sanji and they dashed away! Now imagine a Schichibukai: Jimbei doing this....people will get seriously hurt.:o

bittman
October 18, 2008, 03:28 AM
Well on the couple of points given on my tiers:
Hancock as low -> Sure, Luffy has powered up with Gear 2 and 3 and would own Crocodile any day of the week nowdays, however what we have seen from Hancock is severely unimpressive. The fact is, with Moria, Luffy had a great amount of assistance from his crew who weakened Moria's forces and even Moria himself slightly (see Robin). However, right now it's Luffy vs entire Kuja crew. I'm not saying Crocodile is as strong as Hancock (though honestly I think he is, we'll never know), but compared to the others she is "low tier".

Moria as middle -> kind of explained above. Moria was also beaten by Nightmare Luffy and re-beaten by gear 2+3 Luffy. Nothing there to me says Luffy > Moria for life.

Doflamingo as middle -> May have been hyped a bit as a villain, but I can't see him as a "end of One Piece boss" whilst the other three are doing a rather good job of looking this way. From the plot view, I expect he won't be comparable to their power but instead someone who continually works behind the shadows.

Kuma as high and even close to Mihawk/Blackbeard -> Though not an "end of One Piece boss", I have this feeling Kuma will become extremely important to the plot in the new world. Between his interactions with the World Government, Sentoumaru and Dr Vegapunk, I have this feeling Kuma will be more powerful than all the other Shichibukai I've named. He may not be as powerful as Mihawk or Blackbeard, but I think it'll be close enough that we'll be having debates similar to Kizaru vs Blackbeard.

Host Samurai
October 18, 2008, 03:41 AM
@bittman: What do you think about Jimbei? Did you forget about him?

But I agree with your Tier except for BB i still have the feeling that he was busy gathering his crew that he didn't have much time to master his DF. For that reason I put him on the middle but he is going to be at the Top that's inevitable because in my eyes BB represents the dark Will of D, that will clash with Luffys.

bittman
October 19, 2008, 07:00 PM
Jimbei -> Well impossible to guess, but if you know how stories usually play out I can see him as middle tier. I expect Jimbei, though a merman who are generally more powerful than humans, will be a middle tier'ed enemy and not someone Luffy will beat. Luffy has already fought 2 Shichibukai (and is now looking down at another) whilst the rest of the crew has been quite content with taking out his minions. Since I expect Luffy to beat Blackbeard and Zoro to beat Mihawk and Kuma I expect Jimbei to round out our Shichibukai defeats with the third monster trio member Sanji. My reasoning is baseless of course, but I could make a joke about Sushi if pressed.

Blackbeard -> I'm not going to press on it too much, as there is a KizaruvBlackbeard thread where I've made many a paragraph concerning his strength. I would put him at the top right now as I think he will be the one to take out Whitebeard, though I would like Aokoji to step in. If not, I do agree with your Luffy V Blackbeard in a clash of D-wills.

RichardMNixon
October 19, 2008, 07:29 PM
I think moria would have stood a better chance of defeating luffy if he had never absorbed all those shadows though. By doing that he turned himself into a massive bullseye for luffy to punch. Also moria in that state was almost like a wild animal. He could barely control himself.

I wish people would stop saying this; he's not an idiot, he wouldn't do something that would make him weaker. He also seemed pretty in control to me when he trapped Luffy in a shadow box. The only problem is he already got the snot punched out of him by nightmare Luffy.

I was thinking he should have used Doppelman, think would Doppel have been supersized as well?

As for tiers, I'd say

Highest: Yonkou, Aokiji, Kizaru, Black Beard, Kuma
High: Mihawk, Flamingo, maybe Kaidou, Garp
Middle: Moria, Jimbei, Lucci
Low: Crocodile, Hancock (so far), Akainu (I've been hoping he's actually weak and rose through ranks by being a brilliant and merciless leader).

Consider why each Schichibukai chose to become one. We know BB did it just to gain power and notoriety, but I don't think Mihawk would have become one if there wasn't someone stronger in the Navy to keep him in check. I also think Shanks would beat Mihawk in a fight to the death with haki or something else, just not in a casual fencing match where Mihawk has superior swordskill.

Onomatopoeia
October 19, 2008, 09:41 PM
I'd agree with most of what you said except for a few things, first Akainu(but I'll get to that later), Kaidou(again I'll focus on something else this post), and finally Mihawk.

You have Kuma above Mihawk, this is problematic because while it is likely that Zoro will fight both of them, why would he fight Kuma after Mihawk? I mean his dream is to become the greatest Swordsman ever, why would he fight Kuma after his dream is complete.

While I agree with you that Shanks is slightly below Mihawk in swordsmanship he probablly beats him because of multiple other skills. Anyways what I'm getting at is that just because your beaten by someone doesn't mean your far off, I doubt that everyone at the highest Tier is equal to each other.

Absolutio
October 19, 2008, 10:16 PM
Please don't make this into another Mihawk vs. Shanks thread.. There are too many of them already..
So as luckas/imi would've said: ~Please stay on topic..

Though I do disagree with Richard.. :p

paradoxe
October 19, 2008, 11:45 PM
Highest: Yonkou, Aokiji, Kizaru, Black Beard, Kuma
High: Mihawk, Flamingo, maybe Kaidou, Garp
Middle: Moria, Jimbei, Lucci
Low: Crocodile, Hancock (so far), Akainu (I've been hoping he's actually weak and rose through ranks by being a brilliant and merciless leader).

Kaidou is Yonkou.

Here are my tiers, based on what we've seen:~

Highest: Admirals, Yonkou, Mihawk
High: BB, Doflamingo, Kuma, Garp
Middle: Moria, Jimbei, Lucci, Enel [Luffy, Kidd, Law, Drake, Hawkins are here]
Low: Boa, Sir Crocodile, Dorry/Broggy [Zoro n Sanji (and the rest of the Supernovae) are here], (Arlong and Mr 1/Mr 2 between Low and Lowest IMO)
Lowest: Buggy, Don Krieg, Bellamy etc

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 12:07 AM
The Admirals are called the strongest assault force. So I believe each of them is fukking strong. That's why I would put them at the highest tier.

I believe Mwk is stronger than Shanks, 'cause both of them are swordsman. If some1 wants to read my reasons: only the first half of the post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1054787&postcount=44).

If I may copy Richards grouping:
Highest: WB, Shanks, Admirals, BB, Mwk
High: Garp, Rayleigh, Kuma, Sento, Kaido (?), Hancock (?), Flamingo (?)
Middle: Moria, Lucci, Enel, SuperNova, Monster trio
Low: Crocodile
no name: east blue villains

Razh
October 20, 2008, 04:53 AM
I don't get it why everyone puts Crocodile so low. The guy has beaten Luffy 2 times without much trouble, and anyone would find it hard to beat him without water. Just because he was beaten first, doesn't mean that he's the weakest of Shichibukai, because there is no such thing.

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 07:15 AM
I don't get it why everyone puts Crocodile so low. The guy has beaten Luffy 2 times without much trouble, and anyone would find it hard to beat him without water. Just because he was beaten first, doesn't mean that he's the weakest of Shichibukai, because there is no such thing.I put him low, 'cause he was beaten by Luffy without haki and Gears. He was Luffys first opponent where he was forced to go all out (maybe his 2nd: Arlong). Usually those who are earlier introduced are weak.

Despite that, he has a logia ability and yes, he is strong. But compared to the other.. not really impressive.

RichardMNixon
October 20, 2008, 07:30 AM
I would need to see a lot more of what Mihawk can do before I think he could beat Kuma. If Kuma gets one solid paw in, the fight is over, so can Mihawk end it in one stroke or at least never be hit? It seems unlikely against someone who can teleport.

We have never seen anyone resist Kuma's paws, as long as he keeps teleporting and one-hitting people I'd say he's as strong as we think.

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 08:06 AM
About Kuma's teleport ability, I believe its similar to Kizaru's long ranch travel speed. It has probably no meaning while fighting some1 close to you. And I believe he can't send ppl away who are moving or attacking, 'cause he didn't send Sanji or Luffy away as they attacked him.

Not to mention, Zoro managed to cut him on TB, while he was heavily damaged by Oz+Moria. I don't think Zoro would be able to cut Mwk in that condition. <- speculation

Hinex
October 20, 2008, 08:34 AM
I think it's too early to make a tier with so many characters we've seen in OP by now. We still don't know their true strengths yet ( except Crocodile, Moria, Lucchi, Enel). For example Garp's just a Vice admiral because of his childish behavior. He can't be a true leader. But is there any prove that he is weaker than an Admiral. Please remember he's a hero of the marine who was on par with Roger many times.

With this topic, I think Kuma is strong. He can beat up all SH members at once even thought they are on their full forms (at the current time of the manga). And another point, a Shichibukai's bounty doesn't show his/her strength, it shows how much damage he/she gave to the WG. BB has a zero bounty before he becomes a Shichibukai. So it isn't right to say that Crocodile is weak. He is unfortunate that his enemy is Luffy. I can say Luffy's brute force is one of the best in OP. His 2nd and 3rd gear are only temporary doping, after that he must pay for their prices. Like Sanji said in Enies Lobby: " Everyone has things he can do and can't do. Everyone has his/her strength and weakness. Luffy won Crocodile with a bit of luck. If Robin didn't rescue him => there isn't OP for us now ^^. So I can say once again that it's too early to make a tier with characters who we haven't known their true strength yet.

P/S: Sorry for my poor English. I'm still learning it T_T

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 09:06 AM
For example Garp's just a Vice admiral because of his childish behavior. He can't be a true leader. But is there any prove that he is weaker than an Admiral. Please remember he's a hero of the marine who was on par with Roger many times.
Just to make sure: Im a old school fan boy: character like Garp, Rayleigh, WB are my favourites, But honestly we don't know why he is not a Admiral. There could be any reasons, like for example and which I personally support: He is on admiral fighting lvl, but weaker than AoKiji, Kizaru, Akainu. And the rank Admiral is limited to only 3 seats. Maybe he was in his prime time an Admiral, but was retired from that post, since only the strong ones should be in that rank.

He also lost in power due to his age. So his fights with Roger, which are also off panel, doesn't values his fighting power. But don't misunderstand me, he is certainly fukking strong and respected among every strong dude out there.


So I can say once again that it's too early to make a tier with characters who we haven't known their true strength yet.I agree with those we haven't seen in action. I for my part, divided those character based on their fame in tiers.

About Croco, maybe you missed my post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1075916&postcount=26), anyway he was beaten by Luffy without Gear+haki. So he is weak (among the Shichi) despite his bounty, which like u said, doesn't shows their strength.

Razh
October 20, 2008, 09:46 AM
Despite that, he has a logia ability and yes, he is strong. But compared to the other.. not really impressive.

Not many of them have managed to bring Luffy to the brink of death. Two times. Think about that.

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 09:55 AM
Of course, its not like I forget about that. But as I said "compared to other" I was referring him with the later foes in the story: like Lucci and Gecko, where Gear was needed to beat them.

Razh
October 20, 2008, 10:08 AM
Well, it's not like Gear 2nd or 3rd would help him against Crocodile. Maybe a little.
Only thing that would really help most opponents against Crocodile is water.

BlackHair
October 20, 2008, 10:18 AM
Yes true, his advantage as a logia user. But in the 3rd round, Croco couldn't rly keep up with Liffys physical ability, even though he was poisons. So his physical ability in general is weak compared to the current OP lvl (red line). If Luffy went G2, maybe he could even hit him before he turns into sand. Anyway there is no way for him to keep up with Luffy in G2.

Yabe
October 20, 2008, 12:45 PM
The discussion about other Shichibukai's strength as in comparision to Kuma's is still relevant to the topic, but to further discuss specifically in depth about them please continue here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41558).

Absolutio
October 20, 2008, 12:46 PM
Not many of them have managed to bring Luffy to the brink of death. Two times. Think about that.

Actually 3 times.. First in the rainbow town, when he both pierced luffy and throwed him into the quicksand, and luffy got rescued by robin.
Second is in the Alabasta palace when luffy luckily(?) survived after being completly dried up when the water he spet(?) falled back on him after crocodile left.
And lastly, thirdly, in the final battle, he got poisoned and was supposed to die if it werent for Robin again, rescuing him.

People too underestimate Crocodile. But I do agree that he can't be one of the strongest Shichibukais around..
I wouldn't even dare compare Crocodile to Kuma.. Kuma is on a whole different level...

kikrox1
October 27, 2008, 07:29 PM
kuma is a shichibukai for a reason and its because he is strong he may be the only one to listen to the government but we have seen wat his copies did to the crew and he took care of that one real quick and he completely disrespected the admiral there and did whatever he wanted to do without consent

Dark_Pirate_King
November 14, 2008, 06:28 PM
is kuma as strong as we think? I think that he's much more stronger...

Onomatopoeia
November 14, 2008, 07:26 PM
Well most of our questions will likely be answered in the coming war. Because he'll undoubtadly be at the front line and fighting High Tiers like WBs crew will give us a good gauge of his strength.

Razh
November 17, 2008, 12:12 PM
Actually, I don't think WG will be putting Kuma in front lines. I think he's too valuable for them to risk loosing him in battle.
Then again, who knows.

BlackHair
November 17, 2008, 02:01 PM
After what he did on SA, I don't even think that the WG will count on him in the war. I expect him to fight for the "other" side. Not necessarily side on side with the WB pirates, but I can see him helping the SHs again. So he will fight most likely to save Ace, Luffy i.e for the new age/generation (I know Ace is supporting the current age->WB).

Yans86
November 18, 2008, 02:36 AM
Kuma is stronger than we think....I'm sure about that,I don't know why,but I think he can fight almost evenly with BB too...why???because even if BB can negate DF powers,I think that Kuma knows how to use haki,and more important even without DF,his huge cyborg body with haki.......kick a**!!!!

DutchPhoenix
November 18, 2008, 04:19 AM
kuma can repel everything
blackbeard can suck everything in

xD

Fox666
November 18, 2008, 02:04 PM
kuma can repel everything
blackbeard can suck everything in

xDOh, yes. Never tought about that. (If Kuma can repel fire, he can repel a Logia...)

Razh
November 18, 2008, 02:36 PM
He can repel air itself, not to mention people's pain and fatigue. I don't think it would be different with any other element, such as fire, sand or thunder or water.

Onomatopoeia
November 18, 2008, 06:03 PM
But it wouldn't be very useful, he's not repelling all of a Logia since Logia's have shown as much of their element as they want...even Kuma has to have a limit to how much he can repulse.

Thats also encroaching dangerously close to rejecting Devil Fruits themselves.

Lord Rayleigh
November 18, 2008, 06:11 PM
Kuma is really stronger than we think.

And as a conclusion, I think he is one of the most experimented guy ... and combinated to his crazy DF, to the teleportation bible, to his cyborg body, what a giant !

PS : he is so much stronger than all the SH reunited (the TB arc showed it to us)

This is a warning to everybody: DO NOT POST SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER THREAD.

BlackHair
November 18, 2008, 06:21 PM
And as a conclusion, I think he is one of the most experimented guy ... and combinated to his crazy DF, to the teleportation bible, to his cyborg body, what a giant !
hü.. wait what? teleportation bible?! when was that said?

Imitorar
November 18, 2008, 09:36 PM
hü.. wait what? teleportation bible?! when was that said?
There was a theory going around about a year ago that Kuma's repulsion powers were his own, and that the teleportation power came from his Bible. This theory was "supported" by the fact that Kuma was writing in his Bible right before he teleported Pelona. Despite being rather forced, the theory gained much popularity. However, to date, there is NO indication that Kuma's Bible posseses any Devil Fruit power, and his teleportation power is usually interpreted as being him repelling something in a certain direction, giving the appearance of teleportation. Also, the "writing in the Bible scene" is shown to actually be Kuma flipping through the pages of his Bible, both if you blow up the image in the manga, and in the anime, so what little proof the theory had is basically gone.

Fox666
November 19, 2008, 01:44 AM
That theory had gone since Kuma power was explained at extend in Shanbondy Archipelago.

The bible is so big because it is made of gold, and if it that big, only a 5 meter tall cyborg has enough strength to carry it. So unless you have a Caterpillar track, nobody can steals the gold. =P

happy GIN smily
November 20, 2008, 11:42 AM
There was a theory going around about a year ago that Kuma's repulsion powers were his own, and that the teleportation power came from his Bible. This theory was "supported" by the fact that Kuma was writing in his Bible right before he teleported Pelona. Despite being rather forced, the theory gained much popularity. However, to date, there is NO indication that Kuma's Bible posseses any Devil Fruit power, and his teleportation power is usually interpreted as being him repelling something in a certain direction, giving the appearance of teleportation. Also, the "writing in the Bible scene" is shown to actually be Kuma flipping through the pages of his Bible, both if you blow up the image in the manga, and in the anime, so what little proof the theory had is basically gone.

if its the bible that gives him the teleportation-ability, why do big paws appear where Luffy and Nami landed???

of course that ability is part of his Devilfruit!

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in a fight Kuma vs BB or Kuma vs Hawkeye i cant tell who would win. but Kuma would defenitely defeat all the other Shichibukai we know until now

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one small theory that i must tell you (dont know if it was mentioned before/ i was to lazy to read the whole thread):

Kuma is a buddy of Dragon and is just acting as a loyal Sichibukai to spy on the Marine-Headquater

BlackHair
November 26, 2008, 02:42 PM
I was aware of that bible theory, just got confused a bit, since Lord Rayleigh (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1117776&postcount=47) wrote it as fact. Tbh I once supported that as well.

About Kuma and Dragon, I don't think he could work as a Spy even if he wanted to. Since the Shichi are former Pirates, the WG would never trust him/them valuable informations. It would rather make more sence to let Garp or some1 else (Smoker?) work as a Spy.

Poneglyph420
August 02, 2009, 05:58 PM
Kuma is stronger than we think, way stronger. And totally makes sense he's an agent for some other source...dragon..
He was the only loyal shichibukai...

Gecko Moria
August 03, 2009, 08:33 PM
But it wouldn't be very useful, he's not repelling all of a Logia since Logia's have shown as much of their element as they want...even Kuma has to have a limit to how much he can repulse.

Thats also encroaching dangerously close to rejecting Devil Fruits themselves.

Kuma has been shown to be able to repel air when he fought Zoro on the Thriller Bark. The power of Kuma's Nikyu Nikyu No Mi is to repel objects, tangible and intangible. Logia fruits allow the user to turn into the element be it fire, sand, smoke, ice etc. If Kuma can repel air why wouldn't he be able to repel other elements? There is basically no limit to what he can repel and that's what makes him so formidable.

Poneglyph420
August 04, 2009, 12:12 AM
He also repelled pain, if he can repel ANYTHING that's scary..air, gravity.....

Maybe space itself

Onomatopoeia
August 12, 2009, 09:36 PM
Kuma has been shown to be able to repel air when he fought Zoro on the Thriller Bark. The power of Kuma's Nikyu Nikyu No Mi is to repel objects, tangible and intangible. Logia fruits allow the user to turn into the element be it fire, sand, smoke, ice etc. If Kuma can repel air why wouldn't he be able to repel other elements? There is basically no limit to what he can repel and that's what makes him so formidable.

Yes I've already admitted that he should be able to repel parts of a logia(be it light, ice, thunder etc.) . He repelled air in Thriller Bark, but the fact is he didn't repel all the air in Thriller Bark he only repelled the parts that he was touching.

So take a logia like Smoker or Enel and have them fight Kuma and what you'll get is Kuma repelling parts of the logia's, but the fact is that doesn't matter all that much because said Logia's can reform themselves using their various elements.

Now then the real question with Kuma, in my opinion, is: Has Vegapunk been moving Devil Fruit powers from DF's to inanimate objects(like guns) by using Kuma's power to move/reflect stuff? Like with Luffy's fatigue/pain when he gave it to Zoro. I do think it's a possibility that Kuma could actually move the DF powers.

Because that put's Kuma up there in the strength department.

bittman
August 12, 2009, 11:17 PM
You know, given what you said I was just struck by a thought.

What if Kuma isn't actually a human modified into a cyborg? But rather a cyborg that was fed a Devil Fruit in the same way that a sword fed the Elephant fruit became Funkfried?

Would be an interested twist, though the idea of a human going so far as a cyborg is still fine with me...

Imitorar
August 13, 2009, 12:36 AM
You know, given what you said I was just struck by a thought.

What if Kuma isn't actually a human modified into a cyborg? But rather a cyborg that was fed a Devil Fruit in the same way that a sword fed the Elephant fruit became Funkfried?

Would be an interested twist, though the idea of a human going so far as a cyborg is still fine with me...
But isn't the Human Human Fruit already taken? Which other one could it be, assuming that that's true?

Also, a cyborg by definition is part human and part robot (it comes from cybernetic organism), so he'd have to be an android that ate a Devil Fruit /nerd.

Freakzin
August 13, 2009, 01:09 AM
wasn't Kuma an infamous pirate before becoming a shichibukai... well, that could be just some forged history by the WG, but whatever

Lord Rayleigh
August 13, 2009, 03:29 AM
You know, given what you said I was just struck by a thought.

What if Kuma isn't actually a human modified into a cyborg? But rather a cyborg that was fed a Devil Fruit in the same way that a sword fed the Elephant fruit became Funkfried?

Would be an interested twist, though the idea of a human going so far as a cyborg is still fine with me...

Imitorar has well answered : the only solution would be he ate the human DF because he is a cyborg (" half human, half robot ").
But the human DF is already eaten and Kuma has already eaten a DF (he got the paw ability).
==> Totally impossible.

Cloudbits
August 13, 2009, 03:49 AM
Kuma was once a pirate, his former bounty was 296M beri. If they can implement Kizaru's laser into Kuma then they can probably "install" other abilities into him as well without eating any devil fruit. My guess is that Kuma got his ass kick hard then the WG found him, Vegapunk modifies his body into a cyborg (pacifista)

Lord Rayleigh
August 13, 2009, 04:00 AM
Kuma was once a pirate, his former bounty was 296M beri. If they can implement Kizaru's laser into Kuma then they can probably "install" other abilities into him as well without eating any devil fruit. My guess is that Kuma got his ass kick hard then the WG found him, Vegapunk modifies his body into a cyborg (pacifista)
I do not know what to mean by install other abilities as well without eating any DF but anyway, he has definitely eaten the paw DF.
You can improve the technology of a cyborg but you cannot mimic all the DF's power. The unique example, the laser, can be created without a DF. But all the abilities of the Pika DF cannot.
And there are some DFs, such as transforming your body (diamond/steel), make things appear (ghost/parts of your body) that cannot be reproduced with technology.

Cloudbits
August 13, 2009, 05:21 AM
I don't know man, if Vegapunk is really the genius scientist that Oda built him up to be then I think he can do it cause "he have the technology":p if he can feed devil fruit to inanimate objects (not robot, android, cyborg) then he can do a lot of other thing.

Lord Rayleigh
August 13, 2009, 05:34 AM
Yes, but I think he cannot circle the fundamental rule : one DF active for one user.
I guess with his technology, he was able to understand how a DF works and how some powers work and thus to copy a part of some of the powers with technology : the best example is Ki Zaru's laser. But nobody expect the Pacifistas to turn into light after being hit. That's because technology cannot copy that : it is a pure DF's ability.

Superman
August 13, 2009, 01:52 PM
Guys i think Vegapunk ate the genius genius no mi. And to answer the question if Kuma is strong as we think is yes.
He can let his enimies just sent into the wide ocean so how do they wanna be safe.

Lord Rayleigh
August 13, 2009, 11:15 PM
He can let his enimies just sent into the wide ocean so how do they wanna be safe.
I think that it is possible for strong guys to escape from the trajectory with their own powers. I do not see the top fighters of One Piece travelling for days and days if Kuma tries to send them away.

Renji88
August 14, 2009, 07:38 AM
kuma is very strong, his bounty was more than 200 millions when he was a pirate and now he is even more stronger

only Logia users are able to stop his ability, since they're not solid.

Host Samurai
August 14, 2009, 12:54 PM
A Question came into my mind while I was eating :D.

Kuma being a Pacifista and a DF user, would he be affected from the water just like other DF user, if he would drown in water? Just wondering...

Dr.Robotnick
August 29, 2009, 07:47 AM
Kuma is stronger than kidd for my it woona by a veryy hard enemy you know his powers right its VERY strong!!!

BlackHair
August 30, 2009, 01:55 PM
A Question came into my mind while I was eating :D.

Kuma being a Pacifista and a DF user, would he be affected from the water just like other DF user, if he would drown in water? Just wondering...
Lol..don't think about OP while eating xD But a good question.

I dont think he can swim but I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to walk on the bottom of the sea.

ScratchmenApoo
September 01, 2009, 06:21 AM
He can "teleport" (dodge attacks), repel (block attacks), use massive attack moves (ursus shock) and is also a huge cyborg. He is just so badass with his permanent boring expression and carrying a bible.