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yellowman1
October 23, 2008, 06:28 AM
Kenpachi full power(no eyepacth and two hands)
Ichigo full power(bankai and vizard mask, no mask time)
[hr]
hes stronger period

WaveBossa
October 23, 2008, 11:44 AM
Ichigo is the strongest, i think the manga has done a great job of showing how unstopable he can be

En Yang Ji
October 23, 2008, 04:23 PM
I think Ichigo would win. Even if Kenpachi can block GT onehanded, Ichigo is faster than him.

~Joshua~
October 23, 2008, 08:03 PM
Ichigo would win. Ichigo has been showing some skill and surprising many people. He always seems to come up with some ability that gives him more of a reason to win, then doing it.
People that can speak to swords > people that can't.

yellowman1
October 23, 2008, 08:09 PM
i dont think ichigo would stand a chance based on what we have seen it took him 3 times to brealy beat the 6TH ESPADA grimm. and kenpachi deafeated the 5th who even said his stronger then the 6th and as we all know they are even a rank lowest being the strongest and 10 being weakest...

Onomatopoeia
October 23, 2008, 08:20 PM
i dont think ichigo would stand a chance based on what we have seen it took him 3 times to brealy beat the 6TH ESPADA grimm. and kenpachi deafeated the 5th who even said his stronger then the 6th and as we all know they are even a rank lowest being the strongest and 10 being weakest...

While I have a serious problem with the GJ and Ichigo fight, you did see the end where Ichigo demolished GJ.

yellowman1
October 23, 2008, 08:26 PM
he one while clinging to his life his mask was a ring around his eye he brealy won even the 5th said so

~Joshua~
October 23, 2008, 08:42 PM
he one while clinging to his life his mask was a ring around his eye he brealy won even the 5th said so

The 5th also said that a shinigami's sword couldn't cut him. Yet Kenpachi made that argument null and void. Ichigo had enough strenght after his fight with Grimmjow to protect Grimmjow from Noitra's blade.

yellowman1
October 23, 2008, 08:49 PM
The 5th also said that a shinigami's sword couldn't cut him. Yet Kenpachi made that argument null and void. Ichigo had enough strenght after his fight with Grimmjow to protect Grimmjow from Noitra's blade.

your right he had the str. to get his attention run for his life then block and still get ragged dolled.... :p

Onomatopoeia
October 23, 2008, 08:54 PM
your right he had the str. to get his attention run for his life then block and still get ragged dolled.... :p

Read the chapter again. Ichigo did far better then he should have. Even trading a few blows, he wasn't even using Vizard Form.

nordicbattlesigns
October 23, 2008, 09:29 PM
i dont think ichigo would stand a chance based on what we have seen it took him 3 times to brealy beat the 6TH ESPADA grimm. and kenpachi deafeated the 5th who even said his stronger then the 6th and as we all know they are even a rank lowest being the strongest and 10 being weakest...


And should Ichigo match Ulquiorra, the next fight we're leading up to after the Captains versus Espada elite? Ichigo has already fought Kenpachi to a draw - that is a fact. Kenpachi has not varied greatly in strength since that time, he is perhaps a little stronger? Ichigo's growth, by the standards of Soul Society, is phenomenal. He HAS grown. We must allow that he is so wildly inconsistent in his power levels, but we have ALREADY seen that a resolute, steadily powered Ichigo can at least MATCH Kenpachi.

Cyven
October 23, 2008, 10:29 PM
Even taking into account that Kenpachi's battle senses sharpened in his Nnoitra match, he is still horribly outclassed by Ichigo's speed and to a lesser extent reiatsu.

Kenpachi is too slow to keep up with Ichigo's hyper speed and his GT's pack too much power for him to simply block. I definitely see Ichigo winning this fight without too much trouble if he can get serious.

~Joshua~
October 24, 2008, 09:36 AM
Yeah. Ichigo knows of Kenpachi's massive amount of spiritual pressure so he knows what he's going up against. he has prior knowledge of attacks. Then again Kenpachi who doesn't have the same amount of knowledge on Ichigo, has knowledge nonetheless. Based on information Ichigo wins. Based on speed definitely Ichigo. On power Ichigo might have a hard time but in the end he would come out on top.

yellowman1
October 24, 2008, 09:13 PM
And should Ichigo match Ulquiorra, the next fight we're leading up to after the Captains versus Espada elite? Ichigo has already fought Kenpachi to a draw - that is a fact. Kenpachi has not varied greatly in strength since that time, he is perhaps a little stronger? Ichigo's growth, by the standards of Soul Society, is phenomenal. He HAS grown. We must allow that he is so wildly inconsistent in his power levels, but we have ALREADY seen that a resolute, steadily powered Ichigo can at least MATCH Kenpachi.

he should match him? he fought him a cupole of hours ago and was left on the floor looking like a hollow (hole though him) he hit ulquiorra with hits strongest get. (bankai and mask on) and he stopped it, not with his sword either his BARE hands. and again he brealy beat grimm. the 5th even said it him self and dont tell its cause he was fighting someone b4 cause ken. saved him from a friccon stomping him into the ground killed him then killed the 5th after being cut up and the 5th hand put str8 though him TWICE! and ichigo falls after he gets one hand and no cuts? and he couldnt even cut the 4th....

Onomatopoeia
October 24, 2008, 11:13 PM
he should match him? he fought him a cupole of hours ago and was left on the floor looking like a hollow (hole though him) he hit ulquiorra with hits strongest get. (bankai and mask on) and he stopped it, not with his sword either his BARE hands. and again he brealy beat grimm. the 5th even said it him self and dont tell its cause he was fighting someone b4 cause ken. saved him from a friccon stomping him into the ground killed him then killed the 5th after being cut up and the 5th hand put str8 though him TWICE! and ichigo falls after he gets one hand and no cuts? and he couldnt even cut the 4th....

Ichigo was able to fight Nnoitra after he beat GJ. Thats really good.

As for the point about Ulqui... lol. Ichigo went from only keeping his Mask on for 11 seconds to 15 minutes in about the same space of time. Kubo will make it happen. Though I am personally hoping for Ishida to interrupt and fight Ulqui and then die killing Ulqui, such a badass end for Ishida.

yellowman1
October 25, 2008, 02:37 PM
Ichigo was able to fight Nnoitra after he beat GJ. Thats really good.

As for the point about Ulqui... lol. Ichigo went from only keeping his Mask on for 11 seconds to 15 minutes in about the same space of time. Kubo will make it happen. Though I am personally hoping for Ishida to interrupt and fight Ulqui and then die killing Ulqui, such a badass end for Ishida.

lol i do agree kubo will make it happen but he has to be bias for ichigo hes the main charcter but were talking about facts a fair not bias written fact ichigo would lose against the 4th it took he 3 times to brealy beat the 6th so u think he can beat the 5th cuase he mange to run and block and still get through back? basically ur saying he can win at full cause he survived? but he forught the 5th's underling and broke his wrist and was almost stompped in and ken. to the resuce =]]]:p

~Joshua~
October 25, 2008, 07:20 PM
lol i do agree kubo will make it happen but he has to be bias for ichigo hes the main charcter but were talking about facts a fair not bias written fact ichigo would lose against the 4th it took he 3 times to brealy beat the 6th so u think he can beat the 5th cuase he mange to run and block and still get through back? basically ur saying he can win at full cause he survived? but he forught the 5th's underling and broke his wrist and was almost stompped in and ken. to the resuce =]]]:p

Everyone knows Ichigo's growth is more than any other character's. The first time he came to soul society he came only having his Shikai's form. He left knowing his full Shikai and Bankai (sort of uncomplete seeing as how he got slower in his fight with Byakuya).

Then he came to Hueco Mundo with a short mask time, 11 seconds i believe. He finished his fight with Grimmjow with instead of actual time on his mask but spiritual pressure as a count. He compares to a saiyan meaning he gets stronger after every fight. The gap between Ulquiorra's power and Grimmjow's power isn't that much. So Ichigo's power boosting like crazy shouldn't be surprising or considered "Kubo-biased." I think he has enough power to take on a serious Ulquiorra now.

yellowman1
October 26, 2008, 05:47 PM
Everyone knows Ichigo's growth is more than any other character's. The first time he came to soul society he came only having his Shikai's form. He left knowing his full Shikai and Bankai (sort of uncomplete seeing as how he got slower in his fight with Byakuya).

Then he came to Hueco Mundo with a short mask time, 11 seconds i believe. He finished his fight with Grimmjow with instead of actual time on his mask but spiritual pressure as a count. He compares to a saiyan meaning he gets stronger after every fight. The gap between Ulquiorra's power and Grimmjow's power isn't that much. So Ichigo's power boosting like crazy shouldn't be surprising or considered "Kubo-biased." I think he has enough power to take on a serious Ulquiorra now.

a siyan are u kiiding me he only gets stronger cause he learns a new kind of release or learns how to matser the provious on in SS he learned bankai first time fighting espadas he learns how to master it fights grim a second time learns a mask 3rd time he learns how to master it more now what can he learn a cero? ken. one hands thoses provid some soild proff on how he can beat ken. and get back to me :notrust

~Joshua~
October 27, 2008, 06:36 AM
a siyan are u kiiding me he only gets stronger cause he learns a new kind of release or learns how to matser the provious on in SS he learned bankai first time fighting espadas he learns how to master it fights grim a second time learns a mask 3rd time he learns how to master it more now what can he learn a cero? ken. one hands thoses provid some soild proff on how he can beat ken. and get back to me :notrust

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/19/
Beating someone would be making him/her admit defeat?

shadowfox1
October 27, 2008, 07:57 AM
i dont think ichigo would stand a chance based on what we have seen it took him 3 times to brealy beat the 6TH ESPADA grimm. and kenpachi deafeated the 5th who even said his stronger then the 6th and as we all know they are even a rank lowest being the strongest and 10 being weakest...

Im with you Troy, but I think that ichigo would win now. Because with the help of his vai powers he can beat Ken. We all know that without his mask he would be nothing in ken's path. But he has gotten a little better if I must say. But we all know that all ken needs is a shikai and he can take on ichigo. A bankai would make him unstopable.

yellowman1
October 27, 2008, 09:04 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/19/
Beating someone would be making him/her admit defeat?

in this picture and the page b4 why is ichigo already on the floor in a pool of blood i wonder.... hes standing there he could easily step on ichigo thorat or put his sword in his eye and end it but tite kubo wont let that happen being ichigo bias like i said
[hr]

Im with you Troy, but I think that ichigo would win now. Because with the help of his vai powers he can beat Ken. We all know that without his mask he would be nothing in ken's path. But he has gotten a little better if I must say. But we all know that all ken needs is a shikai and he can take on ichigo. A bankai would make him unstopable.

i agree with the last part BUT his vai powers only put him on grimm. lv if he can keep it on for that length like he did and nortia isnt wasnt that hard for ken. i say this because after he grabbed his sword with two hands (kendo) he only did one swipe and the fight was just about over!

~Joshua~
October 27, 2008, 10:50 AM
in this picture and the page b4 why is ichigo already on the floor in a pool of blood i wonder.... hes standing there he could easily step on ichigo thorat or put his sword in his eye and end it but tite kubo wont let that happen being ichigo bias like i said
<hr noshade size="1">


i agree with the last part BUT his vai powers only put him on grimm. lv if he can keep it on for that length like he did and nortia isnt wasnt that hard for ken. i say this because after he grabbed his sword with two hands (kendo) he only did one swipe and the fight was just about over!

Your taking it out of context seeing as how I didn't post the page before that and after. I posted one page for a reason and I think you need to understand the reason. If mu eyes don't decieve me I noticed that Kenpachi's sword broke from Ichigo's shikai form.

Like I said Ichigo's powers increase with every fight. Right now I believe that Ichigo is on Ulquiorra's level to the most.
[hr]

Im with you Troy, but I think that ichigo would win now. Because with the help of his vai powers he can beat Ken. We all know that without his mask he would be nothing in ken's path. But he has gotten a little better if I must say. But we all know that all ken needs is a shikai and he can take on ichigo. A bankai would make him unstopable.

Ichigo didn't have shikai powers, bankai, or mask and Kenpachi admitted defeat. Shadowfox1 I'm going to ask you not to speculate on Kenpachi's shikai or bankai. We aren't here to assume what the future holds, but to discuss what the present has brought.

yellowman1
October 27, 2008, 10:53 AM
Your taking it out of context seeing as how I didn't post the page before that and after. I posted one page for a reason and I think you need to understand the reason. If mu eyes don't decieve me I noticed that Kenpachi's sword broke from Ichigo's shikai form.

Like I said Ichigo's powers increase with every fight. Right now I believe that Ichigo is on Ulquiorra's level to the most.
<hr noshade size="1">


Ichigo didn't have shikai powers, bankai, or mask and Kenpachi admitted defeat. Shadowfox1 I'm going to ask you not to speculate on Kenpachi's shikai or bankai. We aren't here to assume what the future holds, but to discuss what the present has brought.

his sword did break this is correct but
1. was this before or after he one?
2. was he using kendo i think not
3. this was when everyone was weaker

~Joshua~
October 27, 2008, 12:44 PM
his sword did break this is correct but
1. was this before or after he one?
2. was he using kendo i think not
3. this was when everyone was weaker

1. You don't win if you admit you lost. That's common sense.
2. He told Yachiru he went his all and begged his sword to tell him his name...silence followed.
3. Everyone must include Kenpachi since he lost to Ichigo assuming that you believe Ichigo was weak as well.

Shaunlim
October 27, 2008, 10:31 PM
1. You don't win if you admit you lost. That's common sense.
2. He told Yachiru he went his all and begged his sword to tell him his name...silence followed.
3. Everyone must include Kenpachi since he lost to Ichigo assuming that you believe Ichigo was weak as well.

1. Ichigo said/implying that he lost as well. So wth?
2. He still didn't use his Kendo in either case.
3. Everyone was natural weaker. They had time to improve.

yellowman1
October 28, 2008, 09:51 AM
1. You don't win if you admit you lost. That's common sense.
2. He told Yachiru he went his all and begged his sword to tell him his name...silence followed.
3. Everyone must include Kenpachi since he lost to Ichigo assuming that you believe Ichigo was weak as well.

1. like the person before me stated ichigo looked up said sorry guuys i failed basically or he probly said those exact words then fell and like i said b4 ichigo was swiming in blood ken. could have put hits sword in his eye thorat heart steped on his neck no he didnt cause he wanted to fight again!
2. again like the person b4 me said he did not grab his sword with two hands like i sataed the reg. of the fight he one handed the whole time even ichigo sword said im at my limit just trying to stop your blooding ken. put his sword through his thats NEVER been done.
3. ichigo basically died and his sword brought him back.
4. speaking of yachiru she even said what you talking about you won it was a 2 on 1 and u still won!
Ken. obiviously didnt see it nessicary to use two hands he thought he could win with out it and he thought right. and do u see how much ken. also improved talking about ichigo improving he came from beating 2 captains at the same time in shikai and bankai the same one that left with the great azien. to wiping the floor with the 5th and his friccon not fighting him alone 3 times then brealy winning like ichigo he fought serious and 1 hit him sorry ken. would own him currently! :amuse

kikrox1
October 28, 2008, 10:40 AM
The first fight between them was a tie and ichigo has only gotten stronger so another fight would be no contest no matter how strong u think kenpachi is and using 2 hand to hold his sword is really a big change if it doesnt make you any better it just allows him to swing with more force and if nothing is there for him to hit its just wasted effort

Shaunlim
October 28, 2008, 10:43 AM
The first fight between them was a tie and ichigo has only gotten stronger so another fight would be no contest no matter how strong u think kenpachi is and using 2 hand to hold his sword is really a big change if it doesnt make you any better it just allows him to swing with more force and if nothing is there for him to hit its just wasted effort

You make it sound like Kenpachi didn't improve at all. Kenpachi took out two captains after that match. Which is not something that I see Ichigo doing. Then there is the bankai Ichi losing to grimjow while Kenpachi owned Noitara.

~Joshua~
October 28, 2008, 12:33 PM
Bankai Ichigo with Mask defeated Grimmjow in Hueco Mundo. He got Grimmjow's hand twice so I don't really consider Grimmjow stronger than Ichigo. Those two captains were in my opinion weak. Tousen is stronger now seeing he could cut Grimmjow's arm off. However Komamaru used straight Bankai against a fraccion.

-"I am a mere worm of a man...

shadowfox1
October 28, 2008, 12:42 PM
Bankai Ichigo with Mask defeated Grimmjow in Hueco Mundo. He got Grimmjow's hand twice so I don't really consider Grimmjow stronger than Ichigo. Those two captains were in my opinion weak. Tousen is stronger now seeing he could cut Grimmjow's arm off. However Komamaru used straight Bankai against a fraccion.

-"I am a mere worm of a man...

I agree with you thier. I doubt ken can beat him now. With his vai powers he is pretty strong. But to tell you the truth I am kind of dissapoined in how all he has done is go bankai then vai. But he has gotten stronger, that I am happy about. Ken will LOSE!!!

~Joshua~
October 28, 2008, 12:51 PM
Alot of people use Bankai alot. To my recollection in every fight I see Kenpachi in he goes full power as well (without Kendo). His eyepatch was off during the fight with Ichigo, Maki, and Nnoitra. Byakuya uses Bankai not frequently but more than what we have seen, Hitsugaya does as well.

kikrox1
October 28, 2008, 07:43 PM
You make it sound like Kenpachi didn't improve at all. Kenpachi took out two captains after that match. Which is not something that I see Ichigo doing. Then there is the bankai Ichi losing to grimjow while Kenpachi owned Noitara.

he took out 2 captains a little wile after that match and that fight did not finish since tousen got away and the 8th captain didnt really looked harmed also ichigo stopped/destroyed the so called most powerful zanpkuto, destroyed the thing rukia was held with, took out 3 vice captains without using his sword, and defeated byakuya all in the same day .-. now do u really think using 2 hands is enough to beat ichigo

and u jumped a huge time period and the fight when ichigo beat grimmjow and then the 5th espada came and said im fighting u because u are hurt and then kenpachi came in at full strength with only 1 new move which is using 2 hands with his sword

Shaunlim
October 29, 2008, 02:14 AM
he took out 2 captains a little wile after that match and that fight did not finish since tousen got away and the 8th captain didnt really looked harmed also ichigo stopped/destroyed the so called most powerful zanpkuto, destroyed the thing rukia was held with, took out 3 vice captains without using his sword, and defeated byakuya all in the same day .-. now do u really think using 2 hands is enough to beat ichigo

and u jumped a huge time period and the fight when ichigo beat grimmjow and then the 5th espada came and said im fighting u because u are hurt and then kenpachi came in at full strength with only 1 new move which is using 2 hands with his sword

1. Both Tousen and Komomaru would have died if Kenpachi didn't play around that match. Even with his eye-patch on, he took on a bankai and practically killed Tousen if not for Komomaru.

2. It was impressive indeed he did all of that with his shikai. But in Bankai, he couldn't even cut the 6th espada. That's fact.

3. Those 3 vice captains would faint/pee themselves from Kenpachi's reiatsu alone. Even Ichigo who had a VC/Captain level of reiatsu at that time felt fear to the point he almost gave up completely.

4. Fact still stands that Ichigo with Bankai and Mask has some problems against the 6th espada while Kenpachi came in and own the 5th. Even after the 5th's release, Kenpachi could have finished the entire fight with Kendo. He just didn't wanted to use it~~~.

~Joshua~
October 29, 2008, 10:45 AM
he took out 2 captains a little wile after that match and that fight did not finish since tousen got away and the 8th captain didnt really looked harmed also ichigo stopped/destroyed the so called most powerful zanpkuto, destroyed the thing rukia was held with, took out 3 vice captains without using his sword, and defeated byakuya all in the same day .-. now do u really think using 2 hands is enough to beat ichigo

and u jumped a huge time period and the fight when ichigo beat grimmjow and then the 5th espada came and said im fighting u because u are hurt and then kenpachi came in at full strength with only 1 new move which is using 2 hands with his sword

I wouldn't say that Ichigo defeated Byakuya considering Icihgo didn't even had enough strength to walk away. Byakuya had enough strength to walk and then flash step away leaving Ichigo in awe. You sound like Nnoitra, thinking two hands doesn't make a difference. I voted for Ichigo for his overall skill however don't ever underestimate Kenpachi.

yellowman1
October 29, 2008, 11:48 AM
he took out 2 captains a little wile after that match and that fight did not finish since tousen got away and the 8th captain didnt really looked harmed also ichigo stopped/destroyed the so called most powerful zanpkuto, destroyed the thing rukia was held with, took out 3 vice captains without using his sword, and defeated byakuya all in the same day .-. now do u really think using 2 hands is enough to beat ichigo

and u jumped a huge time period and the fight when ichigo beat grimmjow and then the 5th espada came and said im fighting u because u are hurt and then kenpachi came in at full strength with only 1 new move which is using 2 hands with his sword

ok fan boy he been learned how to hold a sword with 2 hands lol ichigo fights like that all the time against everyone. and ken. fought 2 ppl when he saved him he fought his ficcon in 2 hits the one that was gonna crush ichigo! and the 5th the one a lower number higher rank that ichigo fought the one that ichigo had to fight 3 times to beat. and the 2 captains ken. beat one of them is tousen he was gonna die but ken. fight 2 CAPATAINS! tousen was strong enough to cut grimm jow arm off and destroy it wth out shikai or bankai. while ichigo does a head on GT and it didnt do any thing he couldnt even cut grimm then he got his supposed all mighty powerful mask and grimm was blocking a GT and got hit dead on with another one in his back and i didnt see anything decapliated! even after he beat grimm nothing missing. not ken. he beat the friccon he cut him in half notria he cut off all his arm and left him with 1! :notrust

~Joshua~
October 29, 2008, 12:40 PM
Yellowman seems to be using a fight with Ichigo in the beginning of the Arrancar arc, compared to one in the middle of the Arc. Use Ichigo and Grimmjow's final fight where they are easily matched instead as a measuring rod. Kenpachi is an impressive warrior yes he is. You say he fought 2 captains, at that point Tousen wouldn't have had enough power to fight Grimmjow then. Let alone cut an arm off. He got stronger during the arc, no doubt thanks to Aizen in some way. Komamaru still doesn't seem any more powerful to me however. He did good in his fight though.

yellowman1
October 29, 2008, 06:00 PM
Yellowman seems to be using a fight with Ichigo in the beginning of the Arrancar arc, compared to one in the middle of the Arc. Use Ichigo and Grimmjow's final fight where they are easily matched instead as a measuring rod. Kenpachi is an impressive warrior yes he is. You say he fought 2 captains, at that point Tousen wouldn't have had enough power to fight Grimmjow then. Let alone cut an arm off. He got stronger during the arc, no doubt thanks to Aizen in some way. Komamaru still doesn't seem any more powerful to me however. He did good in his fight though.

joshua your going out of context compeletly were comparing to the two charcaters and what they accomplished past and now if u wanna use the current. then fine ichigo fought his full the whole fight a bearly won even nortia said it not to mention that grimm. is a lower number and the lower the number the stronger.(unless your seeing and hearing impaired) and with ken. when he decied to fight serious it only took one hit where done now i have just proven whose stronger!

gigantor21
October 29, 2008, 07:34 PM
I'm going to call Ichigo on this, in theory.

He was able to cut Zaraki with no Bankai or Hollow mask. He also has a Bankai that specializes in speed, something Zaraki doesn't utilize, and GT gives him more range options. If Ichigo exploits that and actually tries to kill him (aiming for vitals instead of pointless shoulder wounds), then it's well within his capacity.

If he tries to fight it out on Zaraki's terms--up close at all times, with no Shunpo--then he loses a lot of his advantage. But, again, he was able to pull it off without his current powers. With Kendo, he just has to watch out for it, dodge, and counter. He'd be fine as long as he didn't do something stupid like try to deflect it. It's a telegraph move.

As badass as Zaraki is, he's benefitted from opponents that are inexperienced (Ichigo), overconfident (Tousen), or have very similar tactical philosophies (Nnoitora). He's yet to fight someone in the same strength range, with more versatile powers, AND a strict "no bullshitting" policy. Ichigo can fit that role with the right approach, which is why I think he could take him down convincingly.

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 06:22 AM
joshua your going out of context compeletly were comparing to the two charcaters and what they accomplished past and now if u wanna use the current. then fine ichigo fought his full the whole fight a bearly won even nortia said it not to mention that grimm. is a lower number and the lower the number the stronger.(unless your seeing and hearing impaired) and with ken. when he decied to fight serious it only took one hit where done now i have just proven whose stronger!

Ichigo didn't just "barely" win. He was still in bankai and the disappearance of bankai means the user is close to death. Byakuya said this himself. Kenpachi didn't just one hit Nnoitra. He may have pretty much already won after he used Kendo, however Nnoitra got back up did he not? And your going to say that Ichigo's bankai never disappears but when Ulquiorra shoved his hand through Ichigo's chest it definetely disappeared.

yellowman1
October 30, 2008, 06:28 AM
Ichigo didn't just "barely" win. He was still in bankai and the disappearance of bankai means the user is close to death. Byakuya said this himself. Kenpachi didn't just one hit Nnoitra. He may have pretty much already won after he used Kendo, however Nnoitra got back up did he not? And your going to say that Ichigo's bankai never disappears but when Ulquiorra shoved his hand through Ichigo's chest it definetely disappeared.
1.ichigo bankai has never dissappeared even after being clear dead(the 4th killed him and inoue brought him back) and his bankai never dissappeared if so show me and ill admit it happened.umm after ichigo "barely" beat grimm. why did he still attack him not once like ken. but twice! cause everyone gets a last wind so to speak and when he got up ken. just one handed him easily not even two! ken. was walking way the fight was over.....:notrust

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 06:33 AM
Grimmjow was on the floor, and if Ichigo was as dead as you say he was why did he have enough strength to save Grimmjow while being attacked by Nnoitra. Byakuya says that the disappearance of one's bankai is the shoing of one near death. Kenpachi asked Orihime to heal him. If he is as "godly" as you take him to be why should he need the help? If Ichigo's bankai disappeared then he wouldn't be considered dead now would he?

yellowman1
October 30, 2008, 10:38 AM
all your doing is repeating yourself and obiviously your vison inpaired to i'll clearfiy for you he died by the 4TH then grimm. brought inoue to heal him from the dead cause she can reject anything and then they fought. but when he was obivious dead on the floor with a gapping hole through his chest hes bankai did not disspear seeing how he was wearing the clothes from his bankai! and ichigo who took one stabb from a arm through the chest die like that and ken. figthing the fifth took a hand through him TWICE mutiple serve cuts and a cero which he one handed i see that as pretty godly he was like ichigo panting on the floor afteer the fight he walked towards ichigo crush inoue healing bubble ichigo was in with his foot then said "Patch me up woman" and she said right right away!
he demands things and again ichigo bankai does not go away ichigo bearly beat the 6th after 3 times and on top of that in bankai and mask and GT the 4th bare handed it and ichigo sword could not even scratch him!

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 10:41 AM
You vision is impaired if you think that his bankai is the same as the regular soul reaper uniform. The energy that was shown as his bankai dissolving was not there for just no reason. Perhaps you should read the manga again...no like 10 times.

yellowman1
October 30, 2008, 10:48 AM
You vision is impaired if you think that his bankai is the same as the regular soul reaper uniform. The energy that was shown as his bankai dissolving was not there for just no reason. Perhaps you should read the manga again...no like 10 times.

all your doing is getting mad your grammer is starting to fail and i dont think its the same not at all it cant be because first of all hes a vizard! and his clothes from bankai was still there and when soul reapers are defeated there energy is released up and renij clothes disspeared just as bya. said the dissappance of your bankai means death is near just as you love to repeat when didnt his clothes go away as well??? maybe because he was still in bankai!

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 10:51 AM
My grammar is starting to fail? Look at how you attempt to spell things, but that's not what i'm here to analyze. And no i'm not getting mad, I don't get mad over anime. It's fruitless if I do.

Your saying he doesn't have the soul reaper uniform because he is a Vaizard? His bankai disappeared and his regular soul reaper uniform came back. That's what i'm saying.

yellowman1
October 30, 2008, 11:43 AM
My grammar is starting to fail? Look at how you attempt to spell things, but that's not what i'm here to analyze. And no i'm not getting mad, I don't get mad over anime. It's fruitless if I do.

Your saying he doesn't have the soul reaper uniform because he is a Vaizard? His bankai disappeared and his regular soul reaper uniform came back. That's what i'm saying.

grammer is more then spelling

and no his soulreaper suit did not come back sorry
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/03/
where is the dissapearance?
only after he died it showed
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/05/
when he was near death as shown by the first link it did not dissappar like what happen with reji he was alive and it dissapeared and ichigo's did not. but besides that the strongest person ichigo beat was the 6th bearly after 3 trys. and as nortia said "he got the hell beaten out of him and finally managed to beat him and hes stronger then him!"
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/287/13/
and ken definitly owned noritia after fighting serious!
and i dont wanna hear that oh ichigo had to fight grimm. cause ken seated him saved him from death killed the friccon then the 5th!

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 12:27 PM
Spelling is a branch of grammar, go read a book. Are you getting mad yellow? Your spelling is way off...

If Ichigo died like you say he did, why would Ulquiorra tell him to get up and leave when he has the chance? You may not want to hear that Ichigo had to fight Grimmjow but the fact still remains that he did. Even Kenpachi asked for healing after his fight with Nnoitra so your point doesn't really cross with me...

shadowfox1
October 30, 2008, 12:53 PM
grammer is more then spelling

and no his soulreaper suit did not come back sorry
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/03/
where is the dissapearance?
only after he died it showed
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/05/
when he was near death as shown by the first link it did not dissappar like what happen with reji he was alive and it dissapeared and ichigo's did not. but besides that the strongest person ichigo beat was the 6th bearly after 3 trys. and as nortia said "he got the hell beaten out of him and finally managed to beat him and hes stronger then him!"
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/287/13/
and ken definitly owned noritia after fighting serious!
and i dont wanna hear that oh ichigo had to fight grimm. cause ken seated him saved him from death killed the friccon then the 5th!


The near death thing is what ulq. does to all of his victims after he has defeated them(Stated by Grim.) He didn't die. Though it may not seem likely: ichigo has become strong now. Dont just say its all because of his vai mask. If he can take on an espada and move on to an even higher one in the same day then you must give him some credit and see that he has improved in power. Now we wait to see how things will unfold for ichigo and ulq.

~Joshua~
October 30, 2008, 12:57 PM
That's Ulquiorra's favorite move. Nnoitra did it against Kenpachi and Kenpachi coughed up blood.

kikrox1
October 30, 2008, 09:36 PM
I wouldn't say that Ichigo defeated Byakuya considering Icihgo didn't even had enough strength to walk away. Byakuya had enough strength to walk and then flash step away leaving Ichigo in awe. You sound like Nnoitra, thinking two hands doesn't make a difference. I voted for Ichigo for his overall skill however don't ever underestimate Kenpachi.

i think i remember byakuya saying ichigo won so dont be a hypocrite cause u said that kenpachi admitted ichigo won making him the winner of their first fight

nnoitoras fraccion took ichigo after he tried to fight the nnoitora and he was alredy weak to begin with so if hes fighting the 4th espada now and im pretty sure hes gonna beat him doesnt that mean he can beath the 5th :oh

the only thing kenpachi really beats anyone in is strength so of course u have to pick one ichigos other atributes to compare and im picking speed when im saying kenpachi using 2 hands wont change the fact that he wont hit ichigo

and of course tousen was able to do that to grimmjow your acting like that made a difference to grimm. the only reason he didnt strike back was because of aizen and he is the only reason alot of the arrancar dont attack as shown in the fillers when that small group of rebel arrancar stole the fake hougokyu and went to the real world the whole thing was a set up but if vasto lordes decides to do that that would have been a completely different story

Shaunlim
October 30, 2008, 11:48 PM
the only thing kenpachi really beats anyone in is strength so of course u have to pick one ichigos other atributes to compare and im picking speed when im saying kenpachi using 2 hands wont change the fact that he wont hit ichigo



1. No matter how fast, Ichigo needs to move in for a strike. It's then when Kenpachi can hold on Ichi's hand and slice him up. It's practically like the Tousen match again. Remember than Kenpachi was capable of holding an attack barehanded from the 5th espada. Both Cero and weapon. That have to count for something.

yellowman1
October 31, 2008, 06:31 AM
coughing up blodd so what ichigo does that when he gets hit ken. won in 1 hit fighting serious simple as that and ichigo had to fight someone 3 times twice at full strength and he just brealy win because of his confidence from inoue!

shadowfox1
October 31, 2008, 06:56 AM
coughing up blodd so what ichigo does that when he gets hit ken. won in 1 hit fighting serious simple as that and ichigo had to fight someone 3 times twice at full strength and he just brealy win because of his confidence from inoue!

what does that even mean! first of all learn how to spell. secondly, the fight between ichigo and ken. that was like his 3rd or 4th fight man. He just got his powers and what a suprise he beat one of the strongest captains in SS if i remember correcty. His first time in SS. So i would say he is not weak after seeing how strong he has become now.

yellowman1
October 31, 2008, 09:54 AM
what does that even mean! first of all learn how to spell. secondly, the fight between ichigo and ken. that was like his 3rd or 4th fight man. He just got his powers and what a suprise he beat one of the strongest captains in SS if i remember correcty. His first time in SS. So i would say he is not weak after seeing how strong he has become now.
you make it sound like he just fights ppl one after the other like hes some great super man one he always get healed even when he was in soul society 2 before ichigo BEATS someone strong to him he has to fight them 3 times he had to fight bya. 3 times and grimm. he hasnt beatten ken. ill qoute him for you "sorry i failed you guys" and then he fell FIRST in a pool of blood and be4 he fights them he trains days(for bya.) and months(for grimm. 2months) with no sleep just str8 training! he couldnt CUT the 4th in bankai and mask he couldnt CUT the 6th in bankai and mask (on earth) then he went back and trained some more then FINALLY he could cut him and still bearly one now after BEING HEALED! hes gonna fight the 4th with out training? and expect to just beat him? not likely unless kubo is gonna be bias for him then ok but for ichigo to beat ken.? after ken. EASILY ONE HIT the 5th fighting serious and ichigo had trouble with the 6th he cant win sorry fan boy come correct! and kubo may just make ichigo and the 4th both fall on the floor like he did with ken.(even though he still lost!) just to make ichigo look better then he is :darn

gigantor21
October 31, 2008, 10:20 AM
Okay, you guys REALLY need to tone down the rhetoric here. We made the new forum to discuss match-ups, not provide a free venue for people to snipe at each other. :/

kikrox1
October 31, 2008, 10:33 AM
1. No matter how fast, Ichigo needs to move in for a strike. It's then when Kenpachi can hold on Ichi's hand and slice him up. It's practically like the Tousen match again. Remember than Kenpachi was capable of holding an attack barehanded from the 5th espada. Both Cero and weapon. That have to count for something.

ichigo never has to move in for an attack if he moderates his GT attacks and hits kenpachi constantly like he did with grimmjow with his mask on in their 2nd fight with getsuga on 2 sides or in the 5th game for psp when his hollow form does 3 GT from 3 sides with shunpo and comes in for an attack and they all hit at the same time


Ps. to all people please stop using other fights to argue your point cause it makes no sense. WIth ichigo being the main character hes always going to get stronger almost without limit and most of the other characters will stay them same with only a few new tricks so with that in mind i think u can see why ichigo will win ._. im not saying it will be easy for him im saying its just common sense if you really think about it

yellowman1
October 31, 2008, 10:52 AM
ichigo never has to move in for an attack if he moderates his GT attacks and hits kenpachi constantly like he did with grimmjow with his mask on in their 2nd fight with getsuga on 2 sides or in the 5th game for psp when his hollow form does 3 GT from 3 sides with shunpo and comes in for an attack and they all hit at the same time


Ps. to all people please stop using other fights to argue your point cause it makes no sense. WIth ichigo being the main character hes always going to get stronger almost without limit and most of the other characters will stay them same with only a few new tricks so with that in mind i think u can see why ichigo will win ._. im not saying it will be easy for him im saying its just common sense if you really think about it

a psp game? this stuff is not cannon and its not ichigo inner hollow fighting he has full contorl now! and who says this GT is going to eve hurt ken. WITH NO EYE PATCH AND USING KENDO. he will easily cut it in half or just one hand it like he did with a cero. were not using bais statment like hes the main person were having a disscusion about how he can best him which he cant!
[hr]

Okay, you guys REALLY need to tone down the rhetoric here. We made the new forum to discuss match-ups, not provide a free venue for people to snipe at each other. :/

lol i also understand i was a lil hand with the fan boy stuff thanks for pointing that out and manetoring the disscutions... :amuse

kikrox1
October 31, 2008, 10:56 AM
[QUOTE=yellowman1;1093185]a psp game? this stuff is not cannon and its not ichigo inner hollow fighting he has full contorl now! and who says this GT is going to eve hurt ken. WITH NO EYE PATCH AND USING KENDO. he will easily cut it in half or just one hand it like he did with a cero. were not using bais statment like hes the main person were having a disscusion about how he can best him which he cant!


i know its not and i know he has control im just saying that ichigo still has the ability to

yellowman1
October 31, 2008, 10:58 AM
yes but it will play out as the cero thing

Shaunlim
October 31, 2008, 11:21 AM
ichigo never has to move in for an attack if he moderates his GT attacks and hits kenpachi constantly like he did with grimmjow with his mask on in their 2nd fight with getsuga on 2 sides or in the 5th game for psp when his hollow form does 3 GT from 3 sides with shunpo and comes in for an attack and they all hit at the same time


Ps. to all people please stop using other fights to argue your point cause it makes no sense. WIth ichigo being the main character hes always going to get stronger almost without limit and most of the other characters will stay them same with only a few new tricks so with that in mind i think u can see why ichigo will win ._. im not saying it will be easy for him im saying its just common sense if you really think about it

1. GT isn't as spammable as most of you think. Ichigo clearly didn't spam it too much. The most we have seen him spam was him against Grimjow during the second fight.

2. Sooner or later, Ichigo would move in for a close range. Ichigo have shown to be fighting this way. There is no reason to doubt it. Then there is the fact that Kenpachi is probably capable of taking a few GTs.

~Joshua~
October 31, 2008, 12:44 PM
When he was fighting Kariya he did 2 consecutive GT's and did it in quick succession. People that use the argument that "he's the main character, he will never lose a fight" that get's old and i'm sure i'm not the only one that thinks it's annoying.

Not using other fights to argue a point would be pointless. I'm sure you may want to rethink that statement kikrox1.

kikrox1
October 31, 2008, 01:10 PM
i never said ichigo wont lose a fight that would be stupid because he has lost plenty already i said his skill will continue to grow through the entire show and others will stay the same and if u can compare their skiil now you wont have to use previous and future fights to make your point

Qiu Rin
October 31, 2008, 08:43 PM
I think some of you might have been reading a bit too much DragonBall.
This isn't about "power levels".
If you asked me, I'd say the winner in a fight between those two would be whoever Tite Kubo wants to be the winner *g*.
There is no real ranking of strength in Bleach and I think kikrox has a point, when he saiys that we shouldn't compare fight's (too much). Every fight is different and ends that way, because it matches the story Tite Kubo has in his mind.
Really don't take it too seriously... in the beginning Ichigo's growth was overwhelming, he came to soul society and after a few fight's he was able to fight on par with a captain... and afterwards he had real problems with the Espada (well except the 10th, who is reaaaally weak), so we could assume that they are stronger than a captain. We later saw that this isn't quite the case.
Ichigo had no chance against Ulquiorra, but I bet he will win in his next fight... probably because of his strong will and/or his friendship/love, but most likely because of Tite Kubo's story concept... Ichigo just has to win or else the story won't continue. Not because his power-level just raised another 10% (well of cooooooourse he will be able to maintain his vaizard-form longer than before, but for the reason I just wrote).
So please, some of you shouldn't take it to seriously ;).
It's like a discussion "Who's stronger? Spiderman or Wolverine?"...

But to share my opinion (and ignoring that they are just fictional characters...):
Ichigo and Kennichi are both strong.... very strong... (well both are captain lvl.) and very close. In real fight's not always the stronger one wins.... being stronger just increases the propability to win, but there are several factors influencing the outcome. The reason Kenpachi lost to Ichigo (was that he had to, otherwise the story would have ended there) was because he wasn't really fighting seriously. Hell, he wasn't really fighting seriously with Nnoitra until the end... he is just crazy and living for the fight, winning is secondary.
He has hundreds of years fighting experience, an insane power and his fighting spirit (as well as his reiatsu) is that of a monster. If he went all out from the beginng, giving his all, I'd bet on him.
Of course Ichigo is strong too, extremely fast and so on, so he could win too. The conditions of the fight destine the outcome.

Hehe... I really can't wait to see the fight between Halibel and Hitsugaya, because if he wins... it would be a slap in the face of everyone who compares fights (after all Hitsugaya had serious problems with Luppi) ;)

Shaunlim
October 31, 2008, 11:10 PM
When he was fighting Kariya he did 2 consecutive GT's and did it in quick succession. People that use the argument that "he's the main character, he will never lose a fight" that get's old and i'm sure i'm not the only one that thinks it's annoying.

Not using other fights to argue a point would be pointless. I'm sure you may want to rethink that statement kikrox1.

1. Again, that's not cannon.

yellowman1
November 01, 2008, 03:25 PM
lmao and still no one has yet showed good proff of how ichigo would possibly hope to win now all i here is he improves fast..... thats not logical proff i have showed enough time and time again on how ken. can own ichigo like he was doing b4 >.>

kikrox1
November 01, 2008, 03:39 PM
yellowman you have shown no proof at all that kenpachi will win. all you and alot of other have said is that ichigo cant beat the 5th espada or his fraccion and need i remind u that he just finished fighting with the 6th (and during that fight all 3 of the 3rds fraccion were scared of his spiritual pressure and im pretty sure the stronger espada will have stronger fraccion) and was still able to block most of the 5th's attacks. ._. and there has never been a time when kenpachi actually owned ichigo .-. it was actually the other way around after ichigo stopped running away but then he got cocky cause kenpachis zanpakuto was already released and then he got stabbed so if it wasnt for that their first fight would have been a victory for ichigo

yellowman1
November 01, 2008, 03:59 PM
yellowman you have shown no proof at all that kenpachi will win. all you and alot of other have said is that ichigo cant beat the 5th espada or his fraccion and need i remind u that he just finished fighting with the 6th (and during that fight all 3 of the 3rds fraccion were scared of his spiritual pressure and im pretty sure the stronger espada will have stronger fraccion) and was still able to block most of the 5th's attacks. ._. and there has never been a time when kenpachi actually owned ichigo .-. it was actually the other way around after ichigo stopped running away but then he got cocky cause kenpachis zanpakuto was already released and then he got stabbed so if it wasnt for that their first fight would have been a victory for ichigo

ummm no i said that he brealy beat the 6th and ken. one hit owned the 5th fighting seriously and ichigo blocked most of the 5th attack
1. he was not even released
2. he did not even flash step once on him ichigo sword could not cut him he grabbed and and said it only looks sharp. and on top of that it he was not taling him seriously he was kicking and puching ichigo and snaped his wrist and did not cut him and when ichgio mangaed to block he went flying.
3.kikrox1 it seems that you have bad logic if your even comparing a friccon to an espada if they weere stronger they would be espada's >.>
4. to say ichigo just got out of a fight is dumb cause ken. fought two ppl two while he saved ichigo. he beat nortia friccon and saved him then owned the 5th so it seeems that all you have said means nothing try harder and stop living on your hopes and your dreams :notrust

~Joshua~
November 01, 2008, 07:32 PM
Kenpachi seemed to flash step when he first fought Ichigo. I don't see the need to provide the proof seeing as how someone has already done it. Ichigo attacked Kenpachi, then Kenpachi disappeared and then reappeared behind Ichigo who was dumbstruck.

yellowman1
November 01, 2008, 09:08 PM
Kenpachi seemed to flash step when he first fought Ichigo. I don't see the need to provide the proof seeing as how someone has already done it. Ichigo attacked Kenpachi, then Kenpachi disappeared and then reappeared behind Ichigo who was dumbstruck.

i was talking about the 5th was taking ichigo he didnt even flash step aganist him if he did he could have surly destroyed him more then he did if he did inoue would be healing him and crying as we speaking lmao :amuse

kikrox1
November 01, 2008, 10:35 PM
ummm no i said that he brealy beat the 6th and ken. one hit owned the 5th fighting seriously and ichigo blocked most of the 5th attack
1. he was not even released
2. he did not even flash step once on him ichigo sword could not cut him he grabbed and and said it only looks sharp. and on top of that it he was not taling him seriously he was kicking and puching ichigo and snaped his wrist and did not cut him and when ichgio mangaed to block he went flying.
3.kikrox1 it seems that you have bad logic if your even comparing a friccon to an espada if they weere stronger they would be espada's >.>
4. to say ichigo just got out of a fight is dumb cause ken. fought two ppl two while he saved ichigo. he beat nortia friccon and saved him then owned the 5th so it seeems that all you have said means nothing try harder and stop living on your hopes and your dreams :notrust

1. if ichigo was at full strength i think the 5th would have to released
2. of course he wasnt taking him seriously he alredy knew he was weak and he said thats why hes fighting him
3.im not comparing espada to fraccion im comparing the 3rd espadas fraccion to the 5th espadas fraccion and saying that the 3rds fraccion shuld be stronger because its just common sense
4. if u say he barely beat the 6th espada how is saying he just got out of that fight dumb. so what if kepachi can kill a fraccion with one hit and then took out the 5th with his eye patch taken off ichigo wasnt effected by kenpachi taking his patch off when he was still weak like the 5th was so i think ichigo can actually beat him

~Joshua~
November 03, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ichigo right now would be able to defeat Nnoitra. He only went after Ichigo because Ichigo was already weak and Nnoitra admitted this.

yellowman1
November 03, 2008, 11:12 AM
1. if ichigo was at full strength i think the 5th would have to released
2. of course he wasnt taking him seriously he alredy knew he was weak and he said thats why hes fighting him
3.im not comparing espada to fraccion im comparing the 3rd espadas fraccion to the 5th espadas fraccion and saying that the 3rds fraccion shuld be stronger because its just common sense
4. if u say he barely beat the 6th espada how is saying he just got out of that fight dumb. so what if kepachi can kill a fraccion with one hit and then took out the 5th with his eye patch taken off ichigo wasnt effected by kenpachi taking his patch off when he was still weak like the 5th was so i think ichigo can actually beat him

how do you know they didnt even show the ichigo and if the 5th was affected then im sure everyone was cause he was the strongest one there other then kenpachi!

and no if ichigo was at 100% he would not need to release he couldnt cut the 5th and he had more then one attack and he was at 2/3 of hes real power seeing how he was at bankai
so what if the 3rd was affected by ichigo vizard mask his full power! the 5th who i am sure is stronger then the friccon's was effected by 2/3 of his real power!
and to answer you and joshua question right now he could not even hurt the 5th if the ex 3rd couldnt get him to release and was defeated and ichigo was like such powwwweeerrr! then no he could not beat the 3rd and when ken. was fighting the 3rd ichigo accknowledge him as very strong he was atonished and amazed

kikrox1
November 03, 2008, 11:34 AM
how do you know they didnt even show the ichigo and if the 5th was affected then im sure everyone was cause he was the strongest one there other then kenpachi!

and no if ichigo was at 100% he would not need to release he couldnt cut the 5th and he had more then one attack and he was at 2/3 of hes real power seeing how he was at bankai
so what if the 3rd was affected by ichigo vizard mask his full power! the 5th who i am sure is stronger then the friccon's was effected by 2/3 of his real power!
and to answer you and joshua question right now he could not even hurt the 5th if the ex 3rd couldnt get him to release and was defeated and ichigo was like such powwwweeerrr! then no he could not beat the 3rd and when ken. was fighting the 3rd ichigo accknowledge him as very strong he was atonished and amazed

if ichigo was at 2/3 of his real power then why did the 5th say he cant bring out that mask again and if the 3rd is affected then why wuldnt the 5th be and stop comparing fraccion to espada im not saying that IM COMPARING THE 5THS FRACCION TO THE 3RDS FRACCION

yellowman1
November 03, 2008, 11:45 AM
if ichigo was at 2/3 of his real power then why did the 5th say he cant bring out that mask again and if the 3rd is affected then why wuldnt the 5th be and stop comparing fraccion to espada im not saying that IM COMPARING THE 5THS FRACCION TO THE 3RDS FRACCION

the 3rd ummmm we dont know who is what number so idk where your getting your facts and its not the girl it was her fraccoins and the feelt ichigo true power not her and the 5th feelt ken.s 2/3 of his real power and widen his eyes and was cut in half and your are comparing the girls friccion to the 5th your need to poof read b4 posting "and if the 3rd is affected then why wuldnt the 5th be" and we sholud all the the 5th is way more powerful hes an espada after all and i dont need to continue i have showed enough facts from the maanga it self to show ken. can own ichigo!

kikrox1
November 03, 2008, 11:52 AM
the 3rd ummmm we dont know who is what number so idk where your getting your facts and its not the girl it was her fraccoins and the feelt ichigo true power not her and the 5th feelt ken.s 2/3 of his real power and widen his eyes and was cut in half and your are comparing the girls friccion to the 5th your need to poof read b4 posting "and if the 3rd is affected then why wuldnt the 5th be" and we sholud all the the 5th is way more powerful hes an espada after all and i dont need to continue i have showed enough facts from the maanga it self to show ken. can own ichigo!

ok then Halibels fraccion since hallibel is on earth fighting everyone else im gonna geuss she is stronger than Nnoitora and i already said it was her fraccion who were scared of his energy and since Halibel is a higher level espada then shuldnt she have higher level fraccion. If it was 2/3 of kenpachis power then why did he have to use 2 hands to kill him:notrust why should we know the 5th is way stronger there is no proof to that :oh and if u have shown enough facts then why is kenpachi still losing in the poll :o:p "i have shown enough facts the ichigo will own" :darn kenpachi is losing

~Joshua~
November 03, 2008, 08:53 PM
ok then Halibels fraccion since hallibel is on earth fighting everyone else im gonna geuss she is stronger than Nnoitora and i already said it was her fraccion who were scared of his energy and since Halibel is a higher level espada then shuldnt she have higher level fraccion. If it was 2/3 of kenpachis power then why did he have to use 2 hands to kill him:notrust why should we know the 5th is way stronger there is no proof to that :oh and if u have shown enough facts then why is kenpachi still losing in the poll :o:p "i have shown enough facts the ichigo will own" :darn kenpachi is losing

If your evidence is sufficient enough you shouldn't have to go by what the polls say in order to determine your standing. Don't leech off of what other people say.

He used 2 hands to kill Nnoitra simply because he needed to. Similar to the way other soul reapers use bankai to finish off someone. If your saying Kenpachi is weak because he used two hands to defeat Nnoitra then I think that we're pretty much done here because there is no use arguing with someone who thinks that someone is weak for using both hands against an opponent.

kikrox1
November 04, 2008, 12:36 AM
If your evidence is sufficient enough you shouldn't have to go by what the polls say in order to determine your standing. Don't leech off of what other people say.

He used 2 hands to kill Nnoitra simply because he needed to. Similar to the way other soul reapers use bankai to finish off someone. If your saying Kenpachi is weak because he used two hands to defeat Nnoitra then I think that we're pretty much done here because there is no use arguing with someone who thinks that someone is weak for using both hands against an opponent.

i never said he was weak for using 2 hands i said if he had to use 2 hands to win then how was it 2/3 of his full power and i wasnt using the polls as evidence i was just pointing out thats its plain to see that more people feel the way i do or at least think that ichigo will win

if kenpachi shows something more with speed then i might shift my vote to him but he has to ive off an after image to match ichigo otherwise kenpachi wont hit him wen they are both at full power

yellowman1
November 05, 2008, 07:30 AM
i never said he was weak for using 2 hands i said if he had to use 2 hands to win then how was it 2/3 of his full power and i wasnt using the polls as evidence i was just pointing out thats its plain to see that more people feel the way i do or at least think that ichigo will win

if kenpachi shows something more with speed then i might shift my vote to him but he has to ive off an after image to match ichigo otherwise kenpachi wont hit him wen they are both at full power

just because he hasn't shown speed doesnt mean hes not faster then ichigo im not saying he is but you cant say hes not we have already seen ichigo full speed but we havn't seen ken.'s but what we do know that ken. is durable and stronger then ichigo by far :amuse

~Joshua~
November 05, 2008, 11:34 AM
just because he hasn't shown speed doesnt mean hes not faster then ichigo im not saying he is but you cant say hes not we have already seen ichigo full speed but we havn't seen ken.'s but what we do know that ken. is durable and stronger then ichigo by far :amuse

Durable, maybe. Stronger, I really haven't see anything to prove that Kenpachi is stronger than Ichigo. Almost on the same level, yes, but not quite.

kikrox1
November 05, 2008, 11:41 AM
just because he hasn't shown speed doesnt mean hes not faster then ichigo im not saying he is but you cant say hes not we have already seen ichigo full speed but we havn't seen ken.'s but what we do know that ken. is durable and stronger then ichigo by far :amuse


im not saying he cant move at that speed im saying until he shows it then ichigo wins my vote

~Joshua~
November 05, 2008, 01:07 PM
It would be wrong to say that Kenpachi doesn't have a sense of speed. He is a captain meaning that he has speed. However, Ichigo has shown that he has a great mastery of speed. He master Flash Steps by learning it in the short amount of time that he had with Yuroichi. Even if Kenpachi has some speed he hasn't shown anyone yet, I doubt he has enough to outmatch Ichigo.

kikrox1
November 05, 2008, 08:15 PM
It would be wrong to say that Kenpachi doesn't have a sense of speed. He is a captain meaning that he has speed. However, Ichigo has shown that he has a great mastery of speed. He master Flash Steps by learning it in the short amount of time that he had with Yuroichi. Even if Kenpachi has some speed he hasn't shown anyone yet, I doubt he has enough to outmatch Ichigo.

Being a captain doesnt automatically give u speed ._. but i do agree with every thing else

yellowman1
November 05, 2008, 08:19 PM
Being a captain doesnt automatically give u speed ._. but i do agree with every thing else

ichigo's speed has dissipated greatly or everyone has gotten faster or caught up to him anywho he doesn't look all that fast anymore. ken. will destroy ichigo even if he has to catch his sword bare handed and uncut and end him :amuse

kikrox1
November 05, 2008, 10:43 PM
ichigo's speed has dissipated greatly or everyone has gotten faster or caught up to him anywho he doesn't look all that fast anymore. ken. will destroy ichigo even if he has to catch his sword bare handed and uncut and end him :amuse

thats cause he isnt using his full speed any more .-. dont ask why

~Joshua~
November 06, 2008, 07:12 AM
he isn't using his full speed anymore because of the difference between Zangetsu

yellowman1
November 06, 2008, 07:27 AM
thats cause he isnt using his full speed any more .-. dont ask why

are you slow? why in the world would he not use full speed when he was running from the 4th and when he barely won against the 6th :notrust

~Joshua~
November 06, 2008, 11:33 AM
When he was fighting Ulquiorra he was weakened from saving Nell from his cero. There is no way Ichigo is going to be able to use full speed after getting hit from that. During his fight with Grimmjow he had his mask on. There was a theory that Ichigo trades speed for power when he uses his mask. Or the "hollow" version of Zangetsu. I believe that relates to here.

kikrox1
November 06, 2008, 11:40 AM
are you slow? why in the world would he not use full speed when he was running from the 4th and when he barely won against the 6th :notrust

when is the last time ichigo used his after images?


Ps. i just want to say that wen Ulquiorra and Yammi first showed up and Ichigo cut off Yammis arm Ulquiorra said Ichigos spirtual energy was unstable and when its fluctuating its actuall goes over his own meaning he was actually stronger than the 4th espada when he still didnt know how to control his vizard form and now that he can control it i think that he shuld be able to beat the 5th if his energy is even higher than the 4ths

yellowman1
November 14, 2008, 10:38 AM
when is the last time ichigo used his after images?


Ps. i just want to say that wen Ulquiorra and Yammi first showed up and Ichigo cut off Yammis arm Ulquiorra said Ichigos spirtual energy was unstable and when its fluctuating its actuall goes over his own meaning he was actually stronger than the 4th espada when he still didnt know how to control his vizard form and now that he can control it i think that he shuld be able to beat the 5th if his energy is even higher than the 4ths

just because its higher doesn't mean that hes stronger at all... and the only reason there was after images is obviously because be people couldn't keep up with him bya. sure couldn't

kikrox1
November 14, 2008, 03:41 PM
just because its higher doesn't mean that hes stronger at all... and the only reason there was after images is obviously because be people couldn't keep up with him bya. sure couldn't

If it doesnt then why do u constantly bring up Kenpachis spirtual enegy as part of your evidence in other threads including this one. And just because the person can keep up doesnt mean the after images wont appear because its still the same speed meaning it has the same potential of after image meaning he isnt using his full speed anymore

And if you ask for proof of that then watch or read the time when Byakuya fought the 7th arrancar when they both made after images and with your logic it wouldnt be possible because they can keep up with each other:notrust
[hr]

When he was fighting Ulquiorra he was weakened from saving Nell from his cero. There is no way Ichigo is going to be able to use full speed after getting hit from that. During his fight with Grimmjow he had his mask on. There was a theory that Ichigo trades speed for power when he uses his mask. Or the "hollow" version of Zangetsu. I believe that relates to here.

I think ichigos speed and power increases when he uses the mask when you go to the fight with Byakuya and the hollow took over he became faster to over come the effect of Byakuyas bankai on Ichigos speed

And then in a fight with Hiyori when she tried to get him to go bankai because he was scared of the hollow taking over when he used it but it did anyway still in shikai form and Hiyori got choked almost to death and the rest of the vizards had to save her(Hiyori was using her mask and destroying Ichigos shikai)

:oh see speed and strength

choke_a_beech
May 10, 2009, 12:55 AM
Kenpachi with two hands can probably take on Vizard Ichigo with Bankai. Both Ken and nnoitora (released) were all tired and cut up when that happened, so how much stronger would that strike be if it was full power. vizard ichigo with bankai was slightly better than grimmjow released.

When you get to stuff like against hollow ichigo and ichigonator, that starts to get tricky.

~Joshua~
May 10, 2009, 02:46 PM
Kenpachi with two hands can probably take on Vizard Ichigo with Bankai. Both Ken and nnoitora (released) were all tired and cut up when that happened, so how much stronger would that strike be if it was full power. vizard ichigo with bankai was slightly better than grimmjow released.

When you get to stuff like against hollow ichigo and ichigonator, that starts to get tricky.

If they are both fighting with intent to kill, and Ichigonator comes out, then I don't see Kenpachi winning.

-Ren Boy-
May 10, 2009, 04:34 PM
Tite Has Got It All Wrong
with strength
If Ichigo w/o Bankai can draw with kenpachi w/o eye patch
Then ichigo can surely beat kenpachi with bankai let alone the Mask which gives him a lot of Spirtual Power

Xanathos
May 25, 2009, 11:28 AM
The inconsistencies in this manga really make it hard to comment on match ups like these. Power wise, I'm inclined to say Zaraki takes this. With Kendo he took down someone stronger than Grimjaw quite easily, and with just one hit.

Speed wouldn't really be an advantage, because for some reason all the captains after the SS arc seem to be able to deal with speeds surpassing Ichigo in his bankai form. (Take a look at Byakuya Vs Zommari). The fact that Zaraki dealt with Noitoras speed, tells us he wouldn't have problems with Ichigo either - because I doubt Noitora is slower than Grimjaw, who was as fast as Vaizard Bankai Ichigo.

I think Zaraki would take this. I think Zaraki lost in SS because his Zanpaktou went against him, and Zangetsu added his own reiatsu to Ichigos reiatsu in their final clash.

choke_a_beech
May 26, 2009, 05:52 AM
he lost because he didn't have any killing intent against ichigo. if he did he would have used two hands to kill ichigo when he realised he was gonna lose. he probably realised ichigo wasn't fightin to kill, just to beat him so he could rescue rukia...so kenpachi stuck to usin one handed attacks to level the playin field (also doesn't kenpachi like fightin strong guys? He probably wanted to see how strong ichigo was....and if he was strong enough, to fight him again later on). nnoitora was slashin kenpachi with intent....and since kenpachi didn't want to die...he blasted him with two hands

kkck
May 26, 2009, 09:18 AM
Are you kidding lol? Kempachi had murdering intent against ichigo, it even created an illusion of ichigo dieing before the fight. Ichigo simply tied the fight before kempchi could get to it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/103/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/103/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/103/16/

All in all, the only thing kempachi can really spare at any time is killing intent. Ichigo was simply lucky kempachi did not get to the kendo thingy.

Raizen
June 03, 2009, 12:32 AM
IDK. To tell u the truth I don;t think ichi is ready to take on most of the captain. I put ken on the same level as byakuya.
Ken to me is carzy strong but gets too caught up in the moment. He lets his fun take over instead of being serious. If ichi fought ken, ichi may not last

El Samurai Guapo
July 07, 2009, 07:28 PM
The inconsistencies in this manga really make it hard to comment on match ups like these. Power wise, I'm inclined to say Zaraki takes this. With Kendo he took down someone stronger than Grimjaw quite easily, and with just one hit.

Speed wouldn't really be an advantage, because for some reason all the captains after the SS arc seem to be able to deal with speeds surpassing Ichigo in his bankai form. (Take a look at Byakuya Vs Zommari). The fact that Zaraki dealt with Noitoras speed, tells us he wouldn't have problems with Ichigo either - because I doubt Noitora is slower than Grimjaw, who was as fast as Vaizard Bankai Ichigo.

I think Zaraki would take this. I think Zaraki lost in SS because his Zanpaktou went against him, and Zangetsu added his own reiatsu to Ichigos reiatsu in their final clash.

Agreed. Have you ever seen someone in a Kendo match holding a Shinai one handed? No, because it literally cuts your strength in half. Anyone attempting to fight someone one-handed would almost surely lose, even against someone with less skill.

The katana is is a two-handed weapon, holding it one-handed is a HUGE handicap. We've really only seen the baseline of what Zaraki Kenpachi is capable of, when he is actually holding his Zanpakutou properly.

Ozehro
July 07, 2009, 11:39 PM
this is tough.
I would say this,vaizard ichigo might be able to just beat kenpachi.
but then when kenpachi cuts his chest, what's he going to do against Ichigonator?
but then kenpachi might be smart and actually cutoff the head instead.
that said vaizard ichigo has range and great speed... I say ichi takes this.

drakend
August 09, 2009, 12:38 PM
Who would win in your opinion?

PS Mods please don't merge this poll with the existing Ichigo vs Kenpachi one, because there is just some difference between shikai Ichigo and Ichigonator... :D

Zatono
August 09, 2009, 01:44 PM
Is this even a real fight? Let me use a pokemon reference, just because it'd be easy to understand.

If Nnoitra was level 50 released, and Kenpachi at level 60 using his kendo and no eyepatch, then Ulquiorra is at level 80 with Segunda.

That can only mean Ichigonator is level 1000. Yes, 1000.

drakend
August 09, 2009, 04:15 PM
That can only mean Ichigonator is level 1000. Yes, 1000.
Don't exaggerate! We're talking about Kenpachi here, the jolly card of Soul Society! :D

El Samurai Guapo
August 09, 2009, 11:46 PM
Question: Have we seen Kenpachi remove the bells from his hair yet?

poobert
August 10, 2009, 04:19 AM
Is this even a real fight? Let me use a pokemon reference, just because it'd be easy to understand.

If Nnoitra was level 50 released, and Kenpachi at level 60 using his kendo and no eyepatch, then Ulquiorra is at level 80 with Segunda.

That can only mean Ichigonator is level 1000. Yes, 1000.

Where is the pokemon reference?

What you meant is that if Nnoi was a Magicarp then Ken would be a Caterpie and super Ichi would be a Mewtwo. ;)

I think this new Ichi is by far the strongest character in the manga so far. Until we see Aizen or Gin being hogyokuised.

Ozehro
August 10, 2009, 06:07 AM
The question is who does Tite favour more?
Both characters are defined as having crazy potential that get's tapped
in crazy ways. so potentially speaking either one could take the game.
but if we ignore potential and just go on with what each accomplished then
it's no contest. Ulq outmatched vaizard ichigo easily just using 1 release.
then Ichigonator similarly dominates Ulquiorra who released a second time!
Kenpachi would get creamed!

benelori
August 10, 2009, 08:18 AM
Well i think there isn't much philosophy here, kenpachi had to resort to his last weapon in his arsenal kendo against nr 5 espada, but ichigonator owned segunda etapa of ulq without breaking a sweat, segunda etapa which some of us think can rival even with the release of barragan. Of course question is is kenpachi fast enough to at least escape ichigonator's attacks, and does he have the kendo prowess necessary to scratch ichigonator...ichigonator >>..x100..>> kenpachi

Galbert-Kun
August 10, 2009, 01:13 PM
Is this even a real fight? Let me use a pokemon reference, just because it'd be easy to understand.

If Nnoitra was level 50 released, and Kenpachi at level 60 using his kendo and no eyepatch, then Ulquiorra is at level 80 with Segunda.

That can only mean Ichigonator is level 1000. Yes, 1000.

I do not doubt that Ichigonator is lvl 1000. I'm saddened for the pokemons though because Ichigonator ate all of the rare candies.
[hr]
based off what we've seen. ichigonator would win. sure kenpachi has his kendo and insane amounts of reiatsu, but ichigonator has cero, sonido, and arm-ripping abilities.

drakend
August 10, 2009, 01:35 PM
based off what we've seen. ichigonator would win. sure kenpachi has his kendo and insane amounts of reiatsu, but ichigonator has cero, sonido, and arm-ripping abilities.
Not to mention the super-fast regeneration, making Ichigonator invulnerable to any kind of attack virtually.

El Samurai Guapo
August 10, 2009, 02:48 PM
Not to mention the super-fast regeneration, making Ichigonator invulnerable to any kind of attack virtually.

That's true, he's almost like Allon. A better fight would have been Yamamoto vs. Ichigo in hollow form. Although that match up would be just as one-sided as this one.

Yamamoto: "I see, another monster filled only with the instinct to kill. Allow me to punish you."

Ryujin Jakka Hitotsume: Nadegiri (Ryujin Jakka Strike One: Sweeping slice)

*Ichigo is sliced in half*

poobert
August 10, 2009, 04:29 PM
Allon was weak. Ichigo could give yama more than a run for his money. Don't forget he could stop a lanzadelsomething barehanded, which given the size of the explosion was comparable to las noches in size and far superior to Soi Fon's bankai.

ganjabuss
August 11, 2009, 11:51 AM
ichigonator or vaizard ichigo with new mask wins...he is superior to kenpachi in speed/power/reiatsu size+density...and ichigo cut through kenpachi's sword with just his shikai in ss arc, he now has bankai+hollow powers undoutedly at vl class, with high-speed regeneration...kenpachi will be wiped out...

i think ichigo can even give yama-ji some serious trouble now...

El Samurai Guapo
August 11, 2009, 03:57 PM
Allon was weak. Ichigo could give yama more than a run for his money. Don't forget he could stop a lanzadelsomething barehanded, which given the size of the explosion was comparable to las noches in size and far superior to Soi Fon's bankai.

Allon was not weak. It only seemed as if he was weak because he was pitted against the strongest Shinigami. He was owning VCs left and right, and that was prior to him going berserk and full power.

So what if he stopped Lanza del relampago? Ulquiorra, no, even Stark is nothing compared to Yama-jii. Secondly, where is your proof that it is more powerful than Soi Fon's Bankai? Size of explosion is not an indicator of how powerful an attack is.

Don't overestimate Ichigo, he could give Ukitake a "run for his money", though he would still lose, but he's nowhere near the Aizen/Yama level.

drakend
August 12, 2009, 07:48 AM
So what if he stopped Lanza del relampago? Ulquiorra, no, even Stark is nothing compared to Yama-jii. Secondly, where is your proof that it is more powerful than Soi Fon's Bankai? Size of explosion is not an indicator of how powerful an attack is.
Ichigo didn't stop anything: he got owned, raped and killed by Ulquiorra in his first release, even if he used the second one just to destroy Ichigo's morale even more. Who owned Ulquiorra in his second release was Ichigonator, a being which is a middle point between Ichigo and Shirosaki.



Don't overestimate Ichigo, he could give Ukitake a "run for his money", though he would still lose, but he's nowhere near the Aizen/Yama level.
Ichigo is worse than trash, if compared with Aizen or Yamamoto. Anyway Ichigonator is a whole different story: the way he utterly owned Ulquiorra in his second release strongly suggests he's among the top three strongest beings in Bleach. Please note that Ulquiorra second release isn't "nothing" like you say, but the strongest arrancar after Wonderweiss most likely.

Onomatopoeia
August 13, 2009, 09:29 PM
Ichigonator doesn't stand a chance against Kenpachi. There's no way Ichigo can stand up to the guy once he takes off his eyepatch. not only that but don't give me any of that BS about him being close to death. Kenpachi was holding back Kendo all along. And I bet Kenpachi can use kendo as many times as he wants and there's no way that Ichigonator will be able to take that many shots. He'll be ripped in half!
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Is what I would say if I was a huge Kenpachitard.

Senjuchiha Clan
August 13, 2009, 11:35 PM
Ichigo beat Kenpachi when kenpachi was at full power and with little experience and no bankai. Ichigonator Win By A Landslide

El Samurai Guapo
August 14, 2009, 02:12 AM
Ichigonator doesn't stand a chance against Kenpachi. There's no way Ichigo can stand up to the guy once he takes off his eyepatch. not only that but don't give me any of that BS about him being close to death. Kenpachi was holding back Kendo all along. And I bet Kenpachi can use kendo as many times as he wants and there's no way that Ichigonator will be able to take that many shots. He'll be ripped in half!

Don't forget we still haven't seen what happens when he removes the bells from his hair. Probably a similar power up to removing eye patch.
And who knows what else kenpachi is hiding. I wouldn't be surprised if he's like Son Goku and his captain haori weighs 20,000Lbs.

neoleonhart
August 14, 2009, 06:42 AM
i really can't believe there are posts in here that give kenpachi a chance against shirosaki. ulqui may have only been one rank above noitora but that one rank signified an insurmountable power gap. there is NO WAY that kenpachi would stand against shiro. what would kenpachi do? kendo? that just won't work against some1 who is superfast. and the bells? what about the bells? they are just there as ornaments with the added function of giving away kenpachi's position. nothing more. they are not seals.

and no i'm not a kenpachi hater. OTC i'm a big fan of him. but i gotta face the facts here. he cannot beat shirosaki.

Weapon_X
August 14, 2009, 12:38 PM
I'll use a Bleach reference.

Ichigonator is a Espada, Kenpachi is just a hollow. See the difference?

Ichigonator would pawn Kenpachi like Kenpachi is just some random 4th seat.. :blink

:lmao:lmao LOL@ the people who voted for Kenpachi. Congratulations! :lmao

El Samurai Guapo
August 14, 2009, 12:55 PM
i really can't believe there are posts in here that give kenpachi a chance against shirosaki. ulqui may have only been one rank above noitora but that one rank signified an insurmountable power gap. there is NO WAY that kenpachi would stand against shiro. what would kenpachi do? kendo? that just won't work against some1 who is superfast. and the bells? what about the bells? they are just there as ornaments with the added function of giving away kenpachi's position. nothing more. they are not seals.

and no i'm not a kenpachi hater. OTC i'm a big fan of him. but i gotta face the facts here. he cannot beat shirosaki.

If the bells give away his position, then that's already a huge handicap. Also, until he actually takes them off in a fight, you can't say that they are not seals like the eye patch.

By the way, I don't know what's everyone's problem. This thread was specifically to discuss this match, so if nobody expected anyone to favor Kenpachi, why was it even created? Not everyone here is a tool that favors the main character in every manga/anime they watch.

Ichigo sucks, so what if he beat Ulquiorra? Just goes to show how weak the espada are. The ones above Ulquiorra can't even defeat other captains which are weaker than Kenpachi (Hitsugaya).

kkck
August 14, 2009, 12:56 PM
I am inclined to believe hollow ichigo would win this one. Ulquorra wasn´t just defeated by hollow ichigo, he was eaten and spat on. He was brushed away and squashed lke a lonely ant at a picknick. He was less of a bother than a fly at a barbecue. All in all, ulquiorra got owned so absurdly easily that it is not even funny. Now, lets consider what ulquiorra showed us there.

- Cero oscuras, on of the most powerfull cero´s ever shown.
-Insane speed. He was able to easily best ichigo with mask and bankai wth just resurreccion. Segunda etapa just made the difference even more absurd.
-Regeneration. Grants him invulnerability from most conventnal attacks as lng as they are not lethal.
-Stupidly high destructive power. His cero oscuras and lanza del relampago were capably of causing destruction comparable in size to las noches itself. Note that las noches is monumentally huge, just a few buildings in there are probably large enough to hold a few karakura lol.
-Segunda etapa. The second stage of a resurreccion. IMO t is comparable to bankai and perhaps even more powerful considering it is backed up also by hollo and shnigami powers.

Now, we all sa exactly what happened during the battle between ulquiorra and hollow ichigo. Even though ulquiorra had all those haxes and stuff, hollow ichigo bested by far at every single one of them. Ulquiorra could not even begin to compare. Hollow ichigo:

-matched cero oscuras wth a normal cero.
- Completely and utterly outclassed ulquiorra in terms of speed. Ulquiorra might as well not have moved at all or be paraplegic.
-Took lanza del relampago with his hands. Basically the power to destroy several cities in a ingle shot was bested by a single hand of hollow ichgo. hollow ichigo wasn´t even scratched.

Now, seeing how fast, strong and haxed hollow ichigo was, I am inclined to believe kempachi really would not stand a chance here. IMO kempachi could maybe best resurreccion ulquiorra bu would fall against segunda etapa. Considering that, and the fat that no one here relies on anythng but melee combat, I am inclined to believe hollow ichigo would kill kempachi before the poor guy can even enjoy being in the presense of someome so powerful.

lexx
August 14, 2009, 10:28 PM
The Bleach author doesn't keep things internally consistent enough for this fantasy match-up.

Ichigo (at shikai / lieutenant level) vs Kenpachi, fully powered: mutual annihilation.
Ichigo (at bankai / captain level) vs Grimmjow, unreleased: Ichigo has slight advantage.
Ichigo (at bankai / captain level) vs Nnoitra, unreleased: Ichigo may be injured, but he is completely outclassed.

Kenpachi vs Nnoitra: if the ONLY improvement Kenpachi made during the interim was finally deciding "maybe I should hold my weapon with two hands" his fighting at equal levels with Nnoitra doesn't make sense.

Then again, Kenpachi completely freaking whooped Tousen's ass in soul Society, and since then Tousen has been shown to be so freaking strong that Espada respect and obey him, so...

Then again, Rukia was a half-assed putz of a Shinigami in episode one, getting owned by a run of the mill hollow, and "upon recovering her powers" is shown to be fast, nimble, and lieutenant-level? Yeah...NO.

The way the story is presented now, Ichigonator would smoke Kenpachi. Well...he's catch Kenpachi's arms, hold them out, then blow a hole in Ken's guts with a cero like the one Ulquiorra put in Ichigo. Ken might take an arm or two, but instant regeneration's got that handled.

Kuranzyan
August 19, 2009, 08:22 AM
After the fight with Grimmjow, Ichigo was likely as broken as Rakan was after Negi was through with him (Mahou Sensei Negima), so you honestly can't think he would be able to defeat Nnoitora, who on the other hand began to fight just then.

Kenpachi hadn't fought for a very long time until he met Ichigo in Soul Society arc. He said so himself. Compare this situation to an Olympics level sportsman / sportswoman, who takes a break because he / she got injured. As he / she recovers, his / her skill and stamina is declining, and he / she needs additional training to get back to their former level. It's the same thing with Kenpachi.

Ichigonator would win. There's no doubt about it.

Mifune_Taichou
August 19, 2009, 04:57 PM
I think this needs to be split in two. Ichigonator vs zaraki now and ichigonator vs what zaraki could be-ie with bankai.

Ichigonator is I think Ichigo's ultimate form or close to it. I think he would absolutely obliterate Zaraki now. However if Zaraki obtains his bankai I would give it to Zaraki. The reason is this.

We have to ignore the Ichigo vs Zaraki fight here because its clearly not relevant-ichigo cnat beat Zaraki in shikai ever again because he only did so due to the fact Zaraki was going easy on him for aaaages.

Fact is Vaizard Ichigo barely beat Grimmjow, while Zaraki beat Nnoitora who is stronger and without too much difficulty-he would have had even less difficulty if he just faught at full power from the beginning.

Then Vaizard Ichigo got completely owned by Ulquiorra's first release. The question is, is Ichigonator 10x stronger than vaizard Ichigo. I would say Kenpachi now is equal to or stronger than Vaizard Ichigo so if he gets bankai and becomes x10 stronger Ichigonator would need to be more that x10 stronger than vaizard ichigo to win. I dont think he is. I think on what he showed he is twice to x4 times stronger max.

A bankai for zaraki would make him x10 times stronger. x10 times people!!-i cant even begin to imagine what that would look like.

InnerHollow
August 19, 2009, 07:42 PM
Zaraki with a bankai.....
let me catch my breath...
that would be ridiculous
Actually if it were vizard ichigo vs. kenpachi then I think it could be a decent fight.

Josear XIII
August 20, 2009, 01:56 AM
gosh this thread is so lame and poor, is like asking a horse with (those things which dont let it see to either left or right) what is to his right when he can only see ahead.

Obviously everyone will fall for ichigonator, i even feel bad its like there is nothing to talk about and these threads appear in el campo de batallas, I KNOW lets put Ururu genocide mode Vs Ichigonator, or Tessai Vs ichigonator, even Karin vs ichigonator will do... Since its seems that everyone cant fight with ichigonator.

But my point into this is that if you know that people say ichigo can beat kenpachi 100 times in shikai, why bother into this kind of thread that only shows like 0 development in the members activity

El Samurai Guapo
August 20, 2009, 02:58 AM
I think this needs to be split in two. Ichigonator vs zaraki now and ichigonator vs what zaraki could be-ie with bankai.

Ichigonator is I think Ichigo's ultimate form or close to it. I think he would absolutely obliterate Zaraki now. However if Zaraki obtains his bankai I would give it to Zaraki. The reason is this.

We have to ignore the Ichigo vs Zaraki fight here because its clearly not relevant-ichigo cnat beat Zaraki in shikai ever again because he only did so due to the fact Zaraki was going easy on him for aaaages.

Fact is Vaizard Ichigo barely beat Grimmjow, while Zaraki beat Nnoitora who is stronger and without too much difficulty-he would have had even less difficulty if he just faught at full power from the beginning.

Then Vaizard Ichigo got completely owned by Ulquiorra's first release. The question is, is Ichigonator 10x stronger than vaizard Ichigo. I would say Kenpachi now is equal to or stronger than Vaizard Ichigo so if he gets bankai and becomes x10 stronger Ichigonator would need to be more that x10 stronger than vaizard ichigo to win. I dont think he is. I think on what he showed he is twice to x4 times stronger max.

A bankai for zaraki would make him x10 times stronger. x10 times people!!-i cant even begin to imagine what that would look like.

He doesn't need a Bankai. People should go back and re-read or re-watch the Kenpachi vs. Nnoitora fight. After Nnoitora released Santa Teresa and his wounds closed up, Kenpachi never landed a single hit on him. That is, until he (Ken) realized that he was seriously getting cut up and decided to fight seriously for a bit. What happened next? Ken-chan literally one shotted the released fifth espada with one vertical slash. That's it! ONE SLASH and it the 5th Espada nearly died because of it.

Also note that he states it had been a very long time since the last time he had used Kendo, hence he was rusty. Moreover, Kenpachi himself was wounded pretty badly by this point. In other words, that was simply the baseline of what he is really capable of.

Seriously, who else (other than Yama-jii or Aizen) could take out a released Nnoitora with one hit?

Now, if you want to talk about Kenpachi with a Bankai, not even all 10 espada working together could stop him. As far as Hollow Ichigo goes, I'm not convinced he's that powerful. I believe Ulquiorra was telling the truth when he told Ichigo that there were three other Espada stronger than him (back when it was revealed he was #4). In other words, if Shiro-chan could fight on par with #3 then so could Kenpachi, and then some.

I don't even doubt that Kenpachi could take on Stark. He would probably laugh after being blasted with by Stark's cero gun. If Shunsui can take a direct him from it and be more or less alright, then surely Kenpachi can as well. Not that Ken is stronger than Shunsui, but he definitely has more vitality.

drakend
August 20, 2009, 10:37 AM
gosh this thread is so lame and poor, is like asking a horse with (those things which dont let it see to either left or right) what is to his right when he can only see ahead.

Obviously everyone will fall for ichigonator, i even feel bad its like there is nothing to talk about and these threads appear in el campo de batallas, I KNOW lets put Ururu genocide mode Vs Ichigonator, or Tessai Vs ichigonator, even Karin vs ichigonator will do... Since its seems that everyone cant fight with ichigonator.
Dude nobody cares about your whining about the thread: if you think it's somewhat inappropriate for this forum section you can always report it to the moderators. If you don't like the thread I opened you can ignore it, if you have something useful to say then write it, but don't whine come on... :D



But my point into this is that if you know that people say ichigo can beat kenpachi 100 times in shikai, why bother into this kind of thread that only shows like 0 development in the members activity
This section is dedicated to canon and fantasy matches: anybody is free to post the match he likes and hearing other members' opinion about THAT match, not some cheap moralism about the section and such.

Josear XIII
August 20, 2009, 12:06 PM
Dude nobody cares about your whining about the thread: if you think it's somewhat inappropriate for this forum section you can always report it to the moderators. If you don't like the thread I opened you can ignore it, if you have something useful to say then write it, but don't whine come on... :D

Its not a whining my friend is more like a sad sight of what this has become, you didnt got the point of what i was wanting to clarify.

My point is that the whole kenpachi vs ichigo in shikai is not even solved yet, since people still thinks ichigo can beat kenpachi full power. So if its for me kenpachi can beat ichigonator i was one of the 3 votes for kenpachi, but why i have to bother in triying to make my point in why if the only answer im gonna get is, ¨ichigo beat kenpachi in shikai, so ichigonator is 1000 times stronger than ichigo¨ and so its goes on, it even let you think there is no point in arguing anymore. Hope you get my point, this thread is not useless, rather is interesting but ichigo side lacks of strong reasons, and the only answer im gonna get is ichigo fouth Ulquiorra who is espada 4 and second released!!!!! and other deeds that in bleach doesnt hold a meaning. So thats why im ¨whining¨
coz people makes these threads knowing the results for good or for worst, i just have to see who are putting against who and you can sense who is the winner and the discussion would not be long the votes will prove more value to others in the forum than the excellents arguments that others do.

Im even impressed that Onomatopeya voted for kenpachi, im deeply moved here. But still when you see the result, you just speak to yourself and say, tsk ichigonator ooooff course only 3 maniacs would see kenpachi as a winner.

EDIT

OOOOHH CRAP sorry drakend, i know see you were the one who started the thread i did not read it, my bad, i have seen you around and i know you read the post of others, i mistook you for one of the guys who just starts threads like this to make sure someone they like win because they are sure of it. I will read again all the replies and i will start a serious post for this thread