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ConanDect
November 01, 2008, 10:40 AM
Manga evidence only. Do not go overboard with the speculations and assumptions. Be as coherent as possible so everyone can understand exactly why you feel the way you do. Also, refrain from posts like "Byakuya/Mayuri is smart so he'll figure out a way to win." That doesn't mean anything.

Personally, I see Mayuri winning. Before anyone mentions it, I do not believe Byakuya is faster because simply nothing in the manga has suggested he is faster than captain-level. Furthermore, there have been occasions where Mayuri's shunpo seems to be a bit impressive. He caught Ishida off-guard a bit and he surprised Szayel when he used shunpo. Nevertheless, since there is no proof that either of them have shunpo above captain-level, we HAVE TO assume their shunpo is around the same level.

Anyway, Mayuri wins solely because of his poison and his weird body. The fact that he can fight on with fake organs is impressive. Furthermore, I think Byakuya would have to do massive damage in order to take Mayuri down and it's hard to do that when there is a cloud of poisonous gas spreading everywhere.

I believe Mayuri's body modifications allows him to take some damage without having to panic. Senbonzakura, if it catches him, may not be enough. I just think Mayuri + the bankai baby + the poison cloud is too much for Byakuya to deal with. He'd be on the defensive. Furthermore, Byakuya would have to stay very far away to avoid the poison cloud and if he's too far, the chances of getting a hit on Mayuri decreases as it should be pretty hard to see Mayuri through that purple cloud.

If Byakuya even takes one sniff, it's over because after that Mayuri can just chill or stab himself to turn into liquid and wait for Byakuya to die.

Aonsaithya
November 01, 2008, 10:54 AM
On the other hand, Nemu stated that Ishida might have killed Mayuri should he have hit him in the head instead of lower chest.
If Byakuya can catch bankai Ichigo with his bankai (even if Ichigo's hyperspeed allowed him to deflect all the petals), catching Mayuri wouldn't be too difficult. Also the petals could shred the babybankai within moments.
I'd say if they say the word bankai at the same time, they will kill each other. Mayuris poison kills Byakuya a little after Byakuyas bankai kills Mayuri. For this to work Byakuya would have to know to focus on his head instead of, say, torso.
Both are funky captains, and my middle name differs from Mayuri by just lacking the y ;D

Onomatopoeia
November 01, 2008, 02:36 PM
Hypotheticly speaking Byakuya can win this battle if they both go Bankai at the same time. Byakuya with any luck knows about the Posion thing(or Mayuri will explain it) and thus Byakuya will know that time is working against him.

With the knowledge that Byakuya has a very strong one hit attack and that the Baby can be destroyed Byakuya should be able to cut the Bankai baby in two. And then move onto Mayuri.

7/10 times this goes to Mayuri because of cheap Bankai Baby.

Aikidoka
November 01, 2008, 03:08 PM
I'm going to go ahead and assume that in this battle, both are serious: ie. neither Byakuya nor Mayuri waste their time on stupid "I'm better than you" speeches, like both of them are apparently prone to.

I'm going to disagree with you, ConanDect, about how Mayuri's speed matches Byakuya's. Byakuya is clearly one of the faster captains, able to match Zommari in speed. If Byakuya released at the same time as Mayuri, he would get Mayuri first. Heck, Byakuya doesn't even need to Bankai, he could catch Mayuri pretty easily with a shunpo or two.

However, just because Byakuya gets Mayuri with his shikai or bankai doesn't mean Mayuri is finished. Mayuri had a huge chunk of his body blown away by Uryuu, and he was still well enough to talk, and stand. He's pretty durable and would no doubt be able to withstand Byakuya's onslaught of Senbonzakura.

As shown from the Mayuri vs. Szayel fight, the poison is quick acting, affecting Szayel pretty soon after Mayuri Bankai'd. So, assuming Mayuri survives Byakuya's first Bankai attack (which I'm pretty sure he will), the poison will quickly get Byakuya afterwards. Since both are fighting seriously, Mayuri wouldn't explain the poison and Byakuya would be caught by surprise. In that short moment that he can't move and is caught off-guard, Mayuri would use either his Bankai or one of his experiments to finish Byakuya off.

I wouldn't say this would be the end of Byakuya, but the poison takes its toll, as shown by the Uryuu fight. Even if he avoided/countered the Bankai and got in another good hit, Byakuya wouldn't be able to stay standing any longer.

Byakuya clearly trumps Mayuri in ability, but Mayuri is durable, resourceful, and has a ton of tricks up his sleeve. Mayuri would outlast Byakuya in a fight of attrition...and that's why I voted him.

Onomatopoeia
November 01, 2008, 03:54 PM
I'd have to agree with you on speed. I do believe that Byakuya is faster then Mayuri and if needed I will post feats.

Hell I'll Speed Calc to.

Anyways Conandect if you have such a problem with speed in any fight then why don't you just write Speed Equal at the beginning of a post?

~Joshua~
November 01, 2008, 07:45 PM
I didn't know who to vote for on this one... It's true however, Byakuya's speed hasn't really been proven to be more superior than any other captain, I guess it's just been speculated like many have said. However as Aikidoka said, Byakuya proved superior than Zommari who is the fastest Espada so I guess it's safe to assume that Byakuya has somewhat of a superior speed than more captains.

The poison will definetely catch Byakuya off guard and I think that he will have a hell of a hard time fighting it off if he can. However, if the poison is as visible as it was when Mayuri fought Ishida I think Byakuya might be able to avoid it and attack from a distance like he always does.

In the end I voted for Byakuya.

ConanDect
November 02, 2008, 05:49 AM
I didn't know who to vote for on this one... It's true however, Byakuya's speed hasn't really been proven to be more superior than any other captain, I guess it's just been speculated like many have said. However as Aikidoka said, Byakuya proved superior than Zommari who is the fastest Espada so I guess it's safe to assume that Byakuya has somewhat of a superior speed than more captains.

The poison will definetely catch Byakuya off guard and I think that he will have a hell of a hard time fighting it off if he can. However, if the poison is as visible as it was when Mayuri fought Ishida I think Byakuya might be able to avoid it and attack from a distance like he always does.

In the end I voted for Byakuya.

He didn't prove superior to Zomari. They dodged each others' attacks and Byakuya used Utsusemi to get out of an attack that almost killed him. Seeing as Byakuya did not want to use that technique, it shows that he was forced to use it. Furthermore, Utsusemi is not a shunpo technique for reasons I explained in another thread. So Zomari's Sonido actually triumphed over Byakuya's shunpo and forced Byakuya to use a non-speed technique.

So that talk about Byakuya proving superior to Zomari in speed is just a base-less speculation. Nothing even remotely implies that.

@Ono: Unless the feats you want to show are directly related to Mayuri or have someone saying "Byakuya is faster than the average captain" or something along the lines of that, then you cannot prove anything.

I do not have to post "Speed Equal" because the manga already suggests they have the same level of speed because they are both captains and nothing suggests otherwise.

ryanzokuken
November 02, 2008, 12:24 PM
i think you're making rules and statements with just your own speculation, which you said not to do.

you have no proof that the cicada technique is not a speed technique, and in fact, all eveidence we have regarding it indicates that that is exactly what it is. a speed technique.

we first saw it used by Yoruichi in the little SHUNPO show off race her and Byakuya had when she was escaping with Ichigo and he was chasing her.

the fact that is has been used by Yoruichi and Byakuya, two of the fastest people we know of, AND in both instances was used in the midst of speed showdowns, point to it being a speed technique.

and the reason Byakuya didn't want to use it was out of pride. he didn't wanna use it just because he learned it from Yoruichi.

which alllllll brings me to my next point.

WHAT?

Byakuya no faster than other captains?
he's been characterized as being all about his speed.
he's a big time shunpo user.

but i still can't say who would win. Mayuri is just to f***ed up and wierd with his science and inventions and body.

Onomatopoeia
November 02, 2008, 02:03 PM
@Ono: Unless the feats you want to show are directly related to Mayuri or have someone saying "Byakuya is faster than the average captain" or something along the lines of that, then you cannot prove anything.

I do not have to post "Speed Equal" because the manga already suggests they have the same level of speed because they are both captains and nothing suggests otherwise.
First grammar Nazi's should get off my back. If I make one mistake that in no way makes my statement incoherent then you shouldn't comment. I've seen far worse use of grammar in this Forum then one letter being wrong.

Next, your crazy if you think you're going to get a comparison for every single captain and a comparison for all the Bleach characters, a lot of the time feats simply speak for themselves so we don't need comparisons.

If we don't have a comparison then the only thing left is a feat. In the absence of comparisons(which isn't always very good) a feat is the best way to determine the strength. For instance Aizen has never been compared with anyone in Reaitsu, yet he Reaitsu crushed GJ really easily. Yet because we don't have a comparison does that make him equal in Reaitsu to Byakuya, Kenpachi, SHunsui, Mayuri, Ichigo etc.? Of course not. The same is true for Byakuya and Mayuri if we have a feat that puts Byakuya above Mayuri then we must logicly assume that Byakuya>Mayuri in speed.

Not only that but your going by the flawed logic that all Shunpo is created equal(which it's not).

~Joshua~
November 03, 2008, 10:47 AM
I agree, we don't need to be spoon-fed the character comparison's for us to understand the gaps between certain characters. Byakuya has proven to be faster IMO seeing the things he has done. If he isn't faster, then he certainly uses Flash Step more prominently than any other character except for Ichigo using bankai when he is using the ability.

ryanzokuken
November 03, 2008, 01:50 PM
excluding the captains that we still don't know much about, Unohana, Ukitake, Shunsui, and Yama, i'd say the top dog speed lineage goes something like this...


Yoruichi > Soi Fon > Byakuya/Ichigo (not really sure who is faster at this point)

for the good guys anyways.

Raizen
November 03, 2008, 02:43 PM
In this fight it will be a battle of brains vs brawn (in a way). however, byakuya has displayed many times superior intellect on the battle field.

Despite that if both were to go bankai, I do agree that mayuri will not die from the 1st form, at least not yet, while byakuya will most likely inhale the poison. However, if the poison is noticeable, byakuya could sense it and shunpo away and use his bankai from a distance. Here are two cases
1- Byakuya gets poisoned and is slowed down, however, he controls the bankai with his MIND meaning he doesn't need his body to follow it. If he keeps attacking with zenbonzakura, sooner or later mayuri will be screwed
2- Byakuya sense the poison and shunpo away, he attacks from a far with a barrage of both bankai and kido, obliterating mayuri's bankai and possibly beating him

As for speed, I still do not see how anyone could say byakuya is nothing but an average speed captain. He has shown numerous times that his speed is superior to most and even grew up training with youruichi. Youruichi is renowned for her superior speed so most likely the technique that both her and byakuya used, cicada, is a speed technique.

Starky-08
November 04, 2008, 05:28 PM
IMO I say Mayuri as we have seen through out the Series, Mayuri analyzes his opponent.

He had never seen Szayel, and still knew what he could do, due to adding something to Ishida.

I do however believe Byakuya is faster, true its not a proven fact but(Some of you will kill me for saying this) in the data books Byakuya was one of the faster Captains along with Soifon and Yamamoto, while Mayuri was the slowest along with Komamura.

Since Mayuri has had at least half a century to figure out Byakuya's techniques, that is personally why I chose him, but if it was brute strenght or a race Byakuya would win.

~Joshua~
November 05, 2008, 11:37 AM
If Mayuri had at least half a century to analyze Byakuya's techniques, who's to say that Byakuya didn't have half a century to figure out Mayuri's techniques. In brute strength however, I do agree that Byakuya would agree.

Raizen
November 05, 2008, 02:43 PM
i don't think that there is anything mayuri could do to counter byakuya;s bankai. Zenbonzakura attacks everywhere, and since we are assuming they are fighting with the intent to kill, then byakuya will aim for the head, mayuri's weakness

ryanzokuken
November 06, 2008, 10:17 AM
but knowing Mayuri, he's probably got some sick shit in effect like if he loses x amount of blood, his soul will go into some little ball and shoot away like a cannonball out his mouth before his body explodes with the destructive force of an atomic bomb.


....

or something.

lol

~Joshua~
November 06, 2008, 11:24 AM
Lol. Nice theory. Well assuming that he doesn't do anything to his body, and he is fighting straight forward with no tricks up his sleeve, would it be wrong to say Byakuya would win based on the facts presented?

Raizen
November 06, 2008, 11:02 PM
Mayuri is smart, for sure but I don't see how he can counter the whole attack from all side thing. Given they are both captains, I am sure they are familiar with each other's powers, so getting away from toxic baby may not be so hard

~Joshua~
November 07, 2008, 07:26 AM
Especially when he can attack from a very long distance in which he can use, in his bankai's first form, countless blades.

Raizen
November 07, 2008, 12:56 PM
Especially when he can attack from a very long distance in which he can use, in his bankai's first form, countless blades.
Mayuri is smart, no doubt but if u are going up against someone who is also intelligent, u have to back it up with strength. And byakuya is superior in that field

~Joshua~
November 07, 2008, 01:13 PM
Byakuya is smart as well. When he was fighting Zommari, he used a shield I didn't even know he knew how to use.

Raizen
November 07, 2008, 01:35 PM
Byakuya is smart as well. When he was fighting Zommari, he used a shield I didn't even know he knew how to use.
Byakuya is not only known for his speed but his skills in kido as well.

BeerLobster
December 14, 2008, 02:07 AM
Byakuya is smart as well. When he was fighting Zommari, he used a shield I didn't even know he knew how to use.

I'm pretty sure he is.
However,Zommari gave him enough time to figure out how to counter his 'Amor' ability.

So Byakuya is a master of speed and kido.
His Bankai sheds people apart and leaves no space uncovered.

Mayuri has amazing analytical abilities,seeing how he could switch all his innards with replicas.
His Bankai is a huge babe with toxic gas splewing out his mouth.
His Shikai causes paralysis.

Seeing how the 8th Espada is able to alter his surroundings to disable Renji's Bankai and Uryuu's arrows/bow,Mayuri could very well do the same with Byakuya.This fight would be a tough one.

Gecko Moria
December 17, 2008, 03:38 PM
Byakuya's bankai will shred Mayuri's bankai but Mayuri's had a long time to analyze Byakuya so he might've already developed counters against him. And even though Senbonzakura is supposed to be unblockable, Mayuri has been known for doing things that are impossible.

Raizen
December 17, 2008, 03:59 PM
Byakuya's bankai will shred Mayuri's bankai but Mayuri's had a long time to analyze Byakuya so he might've already developed counters against him. And even though Senbonzakura is supposed to be unblockable, Mayuri has been known for doing things that are impossible.
Byakuya has stated he has only shown the 2nd form to 2 people, including ichigo, meaning mayuri does not know it. ANd then there is also kido and flash step, etc

Aonsaithya
December 18, 2008, 09:28 PM
Byakuya has stated he has only shown the 2nd form to 2 people, including ichigo, meaning mayuri does not know it. ANd then there is also kido and flash step, etc
That's true, but I didn't see anyone mentioning the 2nd form.
I think that in most cases, if Byakuyas bankais first form can't kill someone, neither can the second form, unless it's someone with hierro or a lot of reiatsu, thus attacks with more "cutting power", the swords, would work better.
But Mayuri is a squishie :D



Byakuya is smart as well. When he was fighting Zommari, he used a shield I didn't even know he knew how to use.
Well, none of us did know. We currently know less than 10% of all the kido spells that exist, assuming that there are about two hundred of them (a hundred destructions spells, and a hundred of the other type), not to mention the "forbidden ones", whether or not they are included in the numbered ones.
Who knows what else Byakuya can do?

I'd say that if they both go bankai on each other right from the beginning, Mayuri will die first but Byakuya will follow within a minute or two due to the poison gas.

BeerLobster
December 18, 2008, 09:40 PM
Byakuya has stated he has only shown the 2nd form to 2 people, including ichigo, meaning mayuri does not know it. ANd then there is also kido and flash step, etc

Yeah,but since Ichigo was shown the 2nd form,you can't expect Mayuri to just ignore all that information??He's examining everything,everywhere and now that it has been revealed...

Let's ignore the fact that the 2nd form was also shown in the diamond dust rebellion movie too.

We have not seen much of Byakuya's analytical ability but we have seen a lot of Mayuri's.Plus the fact that his baby Bankai changes poison regularly so you can forget about bringing up building resistances to it.

Gecko Moria
December 18, 2008, 09:56 PM
I cant see Kurotsuchi getting killed by Byakuya (and its not just cause he can turn into liquid when he's losing). Kurotsuchi always has some random trick up his sleeve to defeat his opponents while Byakuya always does the same thing over and over again. Not saying Kurotsuchi is better, I voted Byakuya...its like comparing apples and oranges really hard to say since theyre so different.

Raizen
December 21, 2008, 02:13 PM
Yeah,but since Ichigo was shown the 2nd form,you can't expect Mayuri to just ignore all that information??He's examining everything,everywhere and now that it has been revealed...

Let's ignore the fact that the 2nd form was also shown in the diamond dust rebellion movie too.

We have not seen much of Byakuya's analytical ability but we have seen a lot of Mayuri's.Plus the fact that his baby Bankai changes poison regularly so you can forget about bringing up building resistances to it.
Ichigo never encounter mayuri so mayuri had no way to analyze him or put bacteria into him. During the ichi vs byakuya fight, mayuri was away in his place unwilling to fight.

Movies are not official canon.

Byakuya has used analytical skills. In fact he has used it in all his fights. Against renji's bankai, xomari's spell, etc

As for form 1 and form 2. Form 1 is not as focused as form 2. So saying that if form 1 can't hurt someone form 2 can;t hurt it too is BS and completely wrong

Yans86
December 21, 2008, 02:32 PM
Don't take the countless blade too seriously........if it was like that,Ichigo would never been able to beat him!u need just enough reiatsu and power,or enough speed or a good trick....

Zommari was in released state,but we see that he never moves from the position....quite stupid u know....of course he would have died even if he could,but a faster person can take Byakuya easily!

And yes,Byakuya is smart but Mayuri is a genious....

Also this second form of Byakuya bankai....Mayuri didn't see that as well as the most of the captains......is not like Byakuya fought all the captain to death!!!there are a lot of shinigami that never showed their Soul Reaper powers to others,but this doesn't mean that they are invincible!!!

MAYURI VS BYAKUYA quite difficult to say who has the upper hands......

Raizen
December 21, 2008, 09:00 PM
Don't take the countless blade too seriously........if it was like that,Ichigo would never been able to beat him!u need just enough reiatsu and power,or enough speed or a good trick....

Zommari was in released state,but we see that he never moves from the position....quite stupid u know....of course he would have died even if he could,but a faster person can take Byakuya easily!

And yes,Byakuya is smart but Mayuri is a genious....

Also this second form of Byakuya bankai....Mayuri didn't see that as well as the most of the captains......is not like Byakuya fought all the captain to death!!!there are a lot of shinigami that never showed their Soul Reaper powers to others,but this doesn't mean that they are invincible!!!

MAYURI VS BYAKUYA quite difficult to say who has the upper hands......
Byakuya's bankai is deadly, no matter which mode it is in. Ichigo was able to dodge due to his speed but even then he couldn't completely dodge them. As for zomari, byakuya attacked once and he was left in bad shape, Byakuya could have kept attacking. Mayuri's weakness was said to be his head. I am sure a billion rose petals will make it hard for mayuri to protect his head

BeerLobster
December 21, 2008, 10:23 PM
Ichigo never encounter mayuri so mayuri had no way to analyze him or put bacteria into him. During the ichi vs byakuya fight, mayuri was away in his place unwilling to fight.

Movies are not official canon.

Byakuya has used analytical skills. In fact he has used it in all his fights. Against renji's bankai, xomari's spell, etc

As for form 1 and form 2. Form 1 is not as focused as form 2. So saying that if form 1 can't hurt someone form 2 can;t hurt it too is BS and completely wrong

LOL.Not encountering someone doesn't mean one doesn't have the chance for analysis.The 8th Espada certainly had cameras all around,and why not Captain Mayuri as well?

Movie part I already shrugged off.

Byakuya's analytical skills?Not as much as our scientist uses his to cover up his flaw of not being strong enough.Renji's Bankai was defeated due to a sheer lack in power and Zommari's 'spell' was also countered with the fact that Byakuya was given enough time to do so.He did get hit by 'Amor' the first few times,was he not?

Onomatopoeia
December 22, 2008, 04:11 PM
LOL.Not encountering someone doesn't mean one doesn't have the chance for analysis.The 8th Espada certainly had cameras all around,and why not Captain Mayuri as well?

Movie part I already shrugged off.

Byakuya's analytical skills?Not as much as our scientist uses his to cover up his flaw of not being strong enough.Renji's Bankai was defeated due to a sheer lack in power and Zommari's 'spell' was also countered with the fact that Byakuya was given enough time to do so.He did get hit by 'Amor' the first few times,was he not?
Byakuya vs Mayuri is a fight I'm not sure about,however, I do have an opinion on this part.

Szayel had cameras in Las Noches, what your claiming is about the equivalent of saying that he also has Camera in SS despite the fact that we have no proof of that, until we get proof of it he doesn't have cameras in/on who ever/what ever. All we know is that Mayuri has Bacteria in Ishida who he fought. We also have no reason to believe Mayuri has camera's in Renji which means that considering these regulations he must at least strike the person with his sword before the bacteria works. In other words he has nothing on Byakuya's second form of Bankai+, and in all likelyhood his Bankai in general.

Let me put it simply the only one Mayuri has cameras in is Ishida who he fought, so if he didn't fight the person it's unlikely that he has cameras in them. To state that he does have camera's is a theory that we have no reason to believe.

Byakuya saw Amor twice before creating a counter while in combat(he was able to find a counter by the third one). Thats plenty good enough, to say that it was a bad showing would be like saying Mayuri had to see Szayel's Voodo ability while not in Combat Conditions to find a counter against it is a bad showing.

Heck Byakuya only got hit once because of shock factor, the second time because he was protecting Rukia.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
December 22, 2008, 06:52 PM
but knowing Mayuri, he's probably got some sick shit in effect like if he loses x amount of blood, his soul will go into some little ball and shoot away like a cannonball out his mouth before his body explodes with the destructive force of an atomic bomb.


....

or something.

lol

That honestly made me laugh, and at the same time i can see that exact thing happen

anyways, first off i have to say this is one of the more interesting match ups ive seen. however id like to point out, that mayuri's bankai was destroyed after ishida had removed his glove. im pretty sure in that state, that ishida wuold be able to do that to most things in existence. basically im sayin its kinda unfair to judge the durability of the creepy baby by that instance alone. as to who would win, i would say its very close. based upon mayuri's...unique nature, i would say he knows more of other cpt.s then they do of his abilities, but that is PURE speculation. byakuya is no idiot, but his cleverness and inteligence isnt on mayuri's lvl. and as sumone said, mayuri is a lot more durable and has more abilities. i would also assume he is adept at kido, but that too is speculation. as for kuchiki, he does have the strength and speed factor, as well as probably a much higher lvl of swordsmanship.

ANYWAYS. as i said b4, it could easily go either way, but im pretty sure if byakuya were to win, it would likely be through mayuri forfeiting with his globbedy-goop escape thing. also, i could see a double k.o. mayuri's poison reaches byakuya, and mayuri gets torn to itty bitty pieces.


god do i hate being unbiased towards byakuya,...stupid useless pompous bastard of a character

Yans86
December 23, 2008, 09:13 AM
THINK ABOUT IT:

Yoruichi managed with a particular paper,to stop Byakuya's sword from being released.....

Senbonzankura Kageyoshi isn't different from Haineko........million blades or dust.......in my mind is equal......and like Ichi did with Senbonzakura,the three arrancars did with Haineko.....raw violent power to blast away the million blades/powder....

Even if I don't like him,I think that BYakuya's natural enemy is..................................................................Hitsugaya!!!!!if he is enough fast to freeze the blades when they attack him,Byakuya would be quite done...

Raizen
December 23, 2008, 06:29 PM
THINK ABOUT IT:

Yoruichi managed with a particular paper,to stop Byakuya's sword from being released.....

Senbonzankura Kageyoshi isn't different from Haineko........million blades or dust.......in my mind is equal......and like Ichi did with Senbonzakura,the three arrancars did with Haineko.....raw violent power to blast away the million blades/powder....

Even if I don't like him,I think that BYakuya's natural enemy is..................................................................Hitsugaya!!!!!if he is enough fast to freeze the blades when they attack him,Byakuya would be quite done...
How did this become a hitsu vs byakuya LOL??? And theoretically yes, but there are millions and millions of blades, depend how quck and able hitsu is

@Beerlobster-
1- again movie is not official canon so don't use it as evidence
2- The only thing that mayuri has shown was bacteria implanted in ishida. And ishida has not fought byakuya or even seen bankai. At most mayuri knows about form 1 but cannot know a counter for form 2 or even 3.
3- Yes, scientifically, mayuri is smarter than byakuya. But byakuya has shown intelligence in being able to think of counters very quickly. Like against renji's bankai w/ kido or zomari's amor.
4- Mayuri's bankai seems really feeble. All it got going for it is the poison. But some kido shield or running and attacking afar can counter that

Doombot
April 11, 2009, 02:58 AM
Mayuri has shown time after time to be a genius. He would have some type of counter for Byakuya... and if he didn't the poison would just end up killing him in the end. Speed means nothing when your dying because of poison. Mayuri wins due to infection. Next.

Gecko Moria
April 11, 2009, 05:17 AM
Mayuri has shown time after time to be a genius. He would have some type of counter for Byakuya... and if he didn't the poison would just end up killing him in the end. Speed means nothing when your dying because of poison. Mayuri wins due to infection. Next.

It's unfair to say Mayuri has a counter for Byakuya because he's a genius (true but unfair :p). But suppose Byakuya is able to evade the poison. He's been shown to be extremely fast and the poison of Ashisogi Jizō most likely couldn't touch him. Byakuya moves out of range (since Ashisogi Jizō seems to be more of a close-combat bankai) and then uses Senbonzakura to attack Mayuri and his Bankai. And being not as fast, Ashisogi Jizō would be shredded to bits. However, even in the worst case scenario for Mayuri, he could just turn into liquid by stabbing himself and escape.

kkck
April 11, 2009, 01:51 PM
How would Mayuri defend from senbom sakura though? I know mayuri has a freak body but he still doesn't strike me as the speedy type he would have to be to avoid byakuyas zampakuto or even shunpo. Mayuri could use his bankai to defend form senbon sakura but in the end the tiny blades would just slip past it. Mayuris bankai was mentioned to be organic also, for all we know sembon zakura could just ripp it to shreads. Not to mention byakuya is cold minded enough to not be intimidated by mayuris crazy talks and self torture and he appears to have a stronger spiritual pressure(IMO at least). Mayuri has tools to put up a fight but I think byakuya will privail in the end.

Yans86
April 11, 2009, 02:04 PM
Quite fun that people is keeping to say that Mayuri is that weak when he really never losed a fight...........and also,he is not only a genius.Even Urahara needed his help,and he managed to survive at least 100 years as a captain,and don't know how many year considered an hindrace for all soul society.....THE GUY IS SICK!!!Byakuya is strong but is a baby in the end....I wouldn't be suprised if he had counters for all the captains in SS...

AkatsukiNoTobi
April 12, 2009, 12:56 PM
I'm not so sure a kido shield would block against poisonous gas. It's like saying it'd block the air you breath from getting to you. It stops kido attacks, that's it. I bet you could even walk through it if you wanted to.

But has anyone mentioned the drug he used against Szayel? The super-human drug? All of Byakuya's speed won't matter if he some how gets affected by the drug, reducing him to a fraction of a crawl. However, it's a stretch as to how Mayuri would use it on him. I doubt Byakuya would eat Nemu (although I'm sure that's the topic of a doujinshi somewhere), especially since it's a 1-on-1 fight for the sake of this thread. But it's not a stretch to say that Mayuri would already have something planned just in case. I'm sure he's the type who has the next 10 moves planned out in his head for each scenario (similar to Shikamaru in Naruto).

As far as Byakuya goes, he is probably the fastest (or one of the fastest) current captain (only surpassed by Yoruichi in the past, I'm guessing). I don't know how fast his grandfather was, nor do I know how fast Ukitake, Kyouraku, or Yamamoto are (I'm guessing slower by just a slight degree). Also, his thousand-bladed shikai could tear up Mayuri in no time (unless he already developed a counter, like making his bankai's breath acidic to where it melts the flying blades in mid-air. But that would also affect Mayuri, too).

All-in-all it comes down to who hits who first. If Mayuri hits Byakuya with his shikai (especially in the leg), then that cuts his speed down drastically (especially if he can sweep with the sword and hit both legs). If Byakuya can hit Mayuri with his shikai, he can shred him up like piranhas on a flailing duck (I was watching Animal Planet >_>). I'd pretty much say it's too close to call, but I'm gonna give it to Mayuri cause I like him better XD

Gecko Moria
April 15, 2009, 10:34 PM
The problem with Mayuri is: would he be able to hit Byakuya? According to the Bleach character databooks he's one of the slower captains and Byakuya sone of the fastest. Also, Byakuya's bankai/shikai are more flexible and have a greater area of effect than Mayuri's in my opinion. The only unpredictable factor is Mayuri's intelligence. He most likely would have something up his sleeve to defeat Byakuya, which is the reason I thought it should be a tie. But basing it on overall ability that we know about, it should be Byakuya (hence my vote for him).

Raizen
April 16, 2009, 04:28 PM
1- Kido to block the poison
2- use bankai to slice up mayuri's bankai and his body
3- Kido his head, byakuya wins
Mayuri may be smart, but how do counter zenbonzakura?? And byakuya has high level kidos too. Also, no one has seen the 2nd and 3rd form of byakuya's bankai other than ichigo and someone else (probably dead)

kkck
April 16, 2009, 06:37 PM
1- Kido to block the poison
2- use bankai to slice up mayuri's bankai and his body
3- Kido his head, byakuya wins
Mayuri may be smart, but how do counter zenbonzakura?? And byakuya has high level kidos too. Also, no one has seen the 2nd and 3rd form of byakuya's bankai other than ichigo and someone else (probably dead)

How do you block poison with kido though? Does byakuga have a kido that can do such a thing?

Raizen
April 16, 2009, 06:50 PM
How do you block poison with kido though? Does byakuga have a kido that can do such a thing?
A shield or barrier.

kkck
April 16, 2009, 06:52 PM
A shield or barrier.

That's way to ambiguous, we really have no way of knowing if byakuya actually has a barrier which could protect him from a gas. I thought you had some sort of manga basis to say that....

Raizen
April 16, 2009, 06:59 PM
That's way to ambiguous, we really have no way of knowing if byakuya actually has a barrier which could protect him from a gas. I thought you had some sort of manga basis to say that....
Well we saw him use a barrier that was capable of blocking zommari's techniques and that is much more dense and powerful than gas. We have seen binding spells capable of protecting or blocking someone from moving. That means there is depth behind the techniques. If it can block out movement, then it can block out gas

kkck
April 16, 2009, 07:16 PM
Well we saw him use a barrier that was capable of blocking zommari's techniques and that is much more dense and powerful than gas. We have seen binding spells capable of protecting or blocking someone from moving. That means there is depth behind the techniques. If it can block out movement, then it can block out gas

That spell was said to block kidos, for all we know you can just walk through it....I think kidos and poison are quite different, a spell that blocks a kido won't necessarily block a gas.

SakuraFox512
April 22, 2009, 11:24 PM
I say Byakuya Mayuri does pose a threat with his poisons (Bankai baby) and such but there are a few ways the fight could go

(1. Byakuya already knows about the poison and thus could avoid it with Shunpo and destroy it (M's Bankai) with his own Bankai I know Mayuri is the analytical type and could have been studying Byakuya's abilities for years but who's to say Byakuya hasn't done so? Just because Mayuri is a maniacal genius doesn't make Byakuya dumb in comparison I'm not saying Byakuya is smarter than Mayuri (I know that's not true) but Byakuya has shown he can be tactful and clever

(2. Byakuya doesn't know about the poisons and they take effect rendering his limbs useless however Byakuya doesn't need movement of his limbs to make Senbonzakura useful using his limbs makes the attack faster sure but it's not necessary for the attack so he still has a shot

On the argument of speed there are 3 things that shows Byakuya is above other captains/Mayuri (and if people ignore the first two points I make the 3rd is undeniable)

(1. Yoruichi is known as the "Goddess of Flash" for her ability with Shunpo he was trained by her and even though he's never beaten her it may not be a stretch to say he's runner-up to her at the very least there's been some implication that's he to some degree has better than average Shunpo ability

(2. To argue against someone stating that because he only used Utsusemi as a last resort of sorts against Zommari as he was reluctant to use it perhaps you forget that Byakuya's a prideful creature and it was revealed that he was reluctant to use it not because it had any sort of strain on him but because it was taught to him by Yoruichi

(3. As hosted on bleach wiki there's an official stat chart showing how proficient a character is in a certain aspect look at Byakuya's more specifically the bottom right (agility)
(http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Byakuya_Kuchiki) and then look at the bottom right of Mayuri's (agility) (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Mayuri_Kurotsuchi) notice how Byakuya got a 90 in agility while Mayuri only got a 40 and the only person that beat Byakuya in speed rating is (excluding Yamamoto (head captain)) Soi Fon while everyone beats Mayuri in speed except Komamura who also got a 40 making them the 2 captains (including former captains) with the lowest speed

and in the way of intelligence (shown at the bottom right of the chart) Byakuya wasn't far behind Mayuri who had a 100 as he scored a 90

Talking about the total of all their stats combined Byakuya topped at 510 out of 600 while Mayuri topped at 430 out of 600 the ONLY captain to have achieved a lower total score was Kenpachi at 390/600 (though that was likely because the absence of Kido) while the only captains to have higher total scores than Byakuya's (excluding Yamamoto and Aizen because they're overpowered) are Kyoraku and Unohana at 530 and 540 and considering they've presumably been in the SS a good bit longer than Byakuya (Yamamoto, Jushiro, Kyoraku and Unohana are considered some of not THE oldest in the SS) I'd say he's pretty formidable


P.S. Sorry if I overused the bold/italics/underline feature I don't usually use them much if at all I just wanted to put emphasis on the important parts

~Joshua~
April 25, 2009, 11:58 PM
Forget blocking the gas, Byakuya won't be dumb enough to just inhale it. He is going to know enough to stay away from a mysterious substance that is coming out of someone's bankai. Hadou 33: Soukatsui, an art that specializes in disorienting techniques, would be more than enough to blast the gas away should the need ever come.

Raizen
April 30, 2009, 03:51 PM
Byakuya is clearly being underestimed. I am sure there is a kido for every situation. If u think that the poison gas will take out byakuya ur crazy