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View Full Version : Mag Talk Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk



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Maxy Barnard
June 10, 2009, 05:30 AM
1 Naruto
2 One Piece
3 Bleach
4 Beelzebub
5 Inumarudashi
6 Reborn
7 Sket Dance
8 Kuroko
9 Mago
10 Gintama
11 Bakuman
12 Psyren
13 To Love Ru
14 Hoop Men

Methinks Psyren and Sket Dance have the same fanbase, who alternate which one they vote for.

Gintama in the bottom 5 is.... kinda weird.

Tru_TO
June 10, 2009, 05:43 AM
Oh god, OP is not half over. Oda said OP was half over 100 chapters ago. He'll probably say it again into the Marineford arc, and into the Fishman Island arc, and into the first island in the New World. "THIS NEW SAGA MARKS THE BEGINNING OF THE MIDDLE OF THE END OF MY SERIES"

The New World could easily be gigantic. I could see the New World lasting three times as long as the Grand Line has. There's so many things to be touched upon, and Oda definitely hasn't forgotten the random island formula from the Grand Line. And with the Shichibukai pretty much torn apart, I could see another group of villains brought up in the New World as well. Well I guess Doflamingo is still around, but the rest of the Shichibukai are pretty much useless as antagonists now.

But my bets on Kochikame lasting until the day JUMP goes off the shelves.


so how long will One Piece really be in terms of years? I mean Oda also wants to do a Mecha manga i've heard

◆ T.D.A ◆
June 10, 2009, 05:47 AM
1 Naruto
2 One Piece
3 Bleach
4 Beelzebub
5 Inumarudashi
6 Reborn
7 Sket Dance
8 Kuroko
9 Mago
10 Gintama
11 Bakuman
12 Psyren
13 To Love Ru
14 Hoop Men

Methinks Psyren and Sket Dance have the same fanbase, who alternate which one they vote for.

Gintama in the bottom 5 is.... kinda weird.

What chapter is the Naruto rating based on? I would have thought the Nagato speech chapters would be ranked lower.

eni
June 10, 2009, 05:58 AM
What chapter is the Naruto rating based on? I would have thought the Nagato speech chapters would be ranked lower.
Is that the ToC for the upcomig issue? *is a little out of loop here*
Then it should be, AFAIK: 451-8 = 443. ...the end of the Pain fight and finding/meeting Nagato.

Don't wonder about rankings. The Japanese readers' view often differs greatly on the opinions you'll find here at the forums on a certain chapter/arc ._.

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 06:53 AM
Even though MedakaBox and Akaboshi are still unranked, I think they are going to last long because the editor put them in top and middle. The reason is that when Asklepios and Hoopmen started their series, even their first eight weeks, they were place in middle to low, and when they started to get ranked, they just go down to bottom 5. So, MedakaBox and Akaboshi are placing fairly high for unranked series.

Finestela
June 10, 2009, 07:11 AM
Even though MedakaBox and Akaboshi are still unranked, I think they are going to last long because the editor put them in top and middle. The reason is that when Asklepios and Hoopmen started their series, even their first eight weeks, they were place in middle to low, and when they started to get ranked, they just go down to bottom 5. So, MedakaBox and Akaboshi are placing fairly high for unranked series.

Pre-Ch.8 isn't neccessary "unranked", but rather not following the same rule as every other series.

Their placement is still dictated by snap polls from reader's review on top of editor's review. If you go back and see the new series over the years, you'd realize how significant the steepness of the "drop" at Ch.3~5 means for the series in the long run.

StrangerAtaru
June 10, 2009, 10:16 AM
Don't like Gintama's position, but I do respect Beezle's & Sket's for some reason or another. And a good congrats for Toriko's first anniversary.

As for ES21...well, it lasted a bit longer than it should have, but I say this is a thumbs up from Jump for it's success and popularity in the long run. It's probably the first sports manga I've ever read (since most seemed so stereotypical to me in my head and I never wanted to read them, even stuff like Slam Dunk) and considering how it impressed me for so long (aside the later stuff), I congratulate Inagaki and Murata for a job well done. And...I sort of hope Murata doesn't try to rush into something so quickly for a solo work for his next series, that's all I say...

Sexy Randal 105
June 10, 2009, 10:47 AM
I still think the last arc was largely unneeded, but I guess it didn't hurt to tie up the loose ends with the american team.

And I'm glad they didn't have Japan beat america. That would've been RETARDED.

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 03:44 PM
Is there any possible chance that Murata might return with his recent one shot, Blust?

StrangerAtaru
June 10, 2009, 03:50 PM
Is there any possible chance that Murata might return with his recent one shot, Blust?

It will probably be a few months at least before we get any signs of anything new from them. Inagaki and Murata will probably get a one-shot (whether together or apart) in JSQ, but from there we'll see. Murata has had a few one-shots probably prepping for this moment, but from how it sounds, neither have been too good so my hope is that he either reteams with Inagaki or gets another writer before starting a new series.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 10, 2009, 05:45 PM
Here are the Japanese Comic Rankings for this week. Man, check out Bakuman and D.Gray-Man...weird...

ps. Bleach is not doing so hot...neither is Psyren...


http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-06-10/japanese-comic-ranking-june-1-7

Koen
June 10, 2009, 05:54 PM
Kinda obvious. It's not like all those japanese have the money to buy 8 shueisha volumes in one time. Setting out priorities: psyren and sket dance are the manga they buy later (the last in their list) when they have spared some money after spending a lot of money to bleach, naruto, and others ;)

so top manga are instant short term sellers, while "mediocre" manga are long term sellers

Finestela
June 10, 2009, 06:53 PM
ANN is getting worse everyday = ="
They not only couldn't get the right cover for ToLoveRu 14, they couldn't even get the numbers right... (the #2 and #3 numbers are wrong).

Here's the corret numbers:




Rank/Previous Rank/Weekly Sales/Accumulative Sales/#of Weeks ranked/Days (in first week)
/Name and # of series.

*1 -- 1,171,142 1,171,142 *1 4 One Piece 54
*2 -- *,532,553 *,532,553 *1 4 Bleach 39
*3 -- *,300,630 *,300,630 *1 4 D.Gray-man 18
*4 -- *,200,369 *,200,369 *1 4 Bakuman 3
*5 -- *,133,012 *,133,012 *1 4 BASTARD! 26
*6 *1 *,116,801 *,415,992 *2 - Vagabond 30
*7 -- *,106,207 *,106,207 *1 4 ToLoveRu 14
*8 -- *,*96,890 *,*96,890 *1 3 Vampire Knight 10
*9 -- *,*95,884 *,*95,884 *1 4 Mago 5
10 -- *,*71,118 *,*71,118 *1 3 Kiss yori mo Hayaku 5 (Impressive...)
11 -- *,*62,312 *,*62,312 *1 4 Rosario and Vampire Season II 4
12 -- *,*61,715 *,*61,715 *1 4 Letter Bee 7
13 -- *,*57,542 *,*57,542 *1 4 Sket Dance 8
14 -- *,*47,028 *,*47,028 *1 4 Psyren 6
15 -- *,*44,489 *,*44,489 *1 3 Shugo Chara 9
16 12 *,*42,876 *,*84,726 *2 - New Black Jack 6
17 -- *,*42,250 *,*42,250 *1 4 Shaman King Final Official Guidebook
18 -- *,*28,485 *,*28,485 *1 4 Matsuri Special 3
19 -- *,*28,217 *,*28,217 *1 4 ToLoveRu 14 w/ DVD
20 -- *,*28,091 *,*28,091 *1 3 ヒメアノ~ル 3
21 *7 *,*25,821 *,299,933 *3 - Tenjo Tenge 2020
22 *8 *,*23,926 *,*79,310 *2 - Kimi to Boku 7
23 -- *,*23,568 *,*23,568 *1 3 Shinjuku Swan 18
24 -- *,*23,422 *,*23,422 *1 4 Reibaishi Izuna 3
25 *5 *,*23,056 *,*87,484 *2 - Five 11
26 *6 *,*22,367 *,*85,509 *2 - Kaze Hikaru 26
27 *3 *,*22,192 *,*93,666 *2 - BLACK BIRD 8
28 -- *,*21,697 *,*21,697 *1 4 Hakaru no Go Complete Edition 9
29 23 *,*21,633 *,951,324 *6 - Naruto 46
30 *2 *,*21,152 *,*93,587 *2 - コイバナ! 恋せよ花火 5

kewl0210
June 10, 2009, 07:04 PM
They had the wrong cover for Bakuman also.

I didn't realize by what a large margin OP outsells everything.

I bought a bunch of those last week. Guess Inumaru Dash isn't there yet...

Finestela
June 10, 2009, 07:22 PM
lol ;)
I've only ordered ToLoveRu 14, Bastard 26, and Vampire Knight 10 off that list :p
I'm really surprised at the performance of Kiss yori (Shoujo series in LaLa)... more than R&V? O_o" (OT again... >_<")

Kaiten
June 10, 2009, 07:46 PM
They had the wrong cover for Bakuman also.

I didn't realize by what a large margin OP outsells everything.

I bought a bunch of those last week. Guess Inumaru Dash isn't there yet...

OP crushes everything ^^ Nana comes pretty close, it usually sells over a million by the second week, at least.

Bleach and DGM did look really low, thanks Finestela!! Good to see Bakuman selling better and better with each volume. I wish Mago could do the same, but it is doing well. Psyren and Sket just seem to linger at the same place every single volume. I don't think I've seen either increase since January.

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 07:47 PM
So Mago has sold almost 100,000. Is this volume can make Mago safe for cancelation or not?

Also, looks like Psyren's volume sell doesn't increase. I'm not sure Psyren ever can make into top 10 in future.

Kaiten
June 10, 2009, 07:50 PM
So Mago has sold almost 100,000. Is this volume can make Mago safe for cancelation or not?

Mago has never been in danger of cancellation, nor will it be in the foreseeable future. The only established series that need worry is Psyren. It's sales are iffy, it's rank rarely good. It should still be good enough to make it to year two, maybe even year three.

SSJWill4
June 10, 2009, 07:54 PM
OP crushes everything ^^ Nana comes pretty close, it usually sells over a million by the second week, at least.

Bleach and DGM did look really low, thanks Finestela!! Good to see Bakuman selling better and better with each volume. I wish Mago could do the same, but it is doing well. Psyren and Sket just seem to linger at the same place every single volume. I don't think I've seen either increase since January.

Bakuman #3 actually sold about 28,000 less than Bakuman #2 just counting the first week of sales numbers. Still quite impressive though. Also, Sket and Psyren are a little up sales wise, while Mago is a little down. EDIT: nvm, Mago is up sales wise as well. My mistake.

Finestela
June 10, 2009, 08:09 PM
Bakuman #3 actually sold about 28,000 less than Bakuman #2 just counting the first week of sales numbers. Still quite impressive though. Also, Sket and Psyren are a little up sales wise, while Mago is a little down. EDIT: nvm, Mago is up sales wise as well. My mistake.

It's actually not an accurate comparison, since Vol. 02 had 5 days while Vol. 03 had only 4 days ;)
Either try to average (which is still not really accurate, due to the fact that the first few days should be weighed) or compare the second week accumulative sales :)

Koshi_Inaba
June 10, 2009, 08:26 PM
Actually, Psyren's a little down. Usually it's first week sales is 50,000-55,000. Mago is only a little bit down. It'll probably reach 200000 in 4-5 weeks.

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 08:28 PM
In change of topic, I really enjoy reading Kuroko, but I have two things that concerns for this series. First, the match is too short. Seirin against Seihou only last five chapters, and Seihou is one of the best three teams in Tokyo, but the author presented shortly. It is even shorter than against Kaijou. So, I don't have any impact on Seihou as really strong team. Secondly, there is not too much cool opponent characters, other than Generation of Miracles. The author only put too much focus on Genration of Miracles, he didn't have any character development on other rival characters. I think author should have put more character focus on Seihou teams.

In conclusion, Seirin against Shuutoku is going to be important part for this series to judge whether this series can be successful or not.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 10, 2009, 08:58 PM
Mago has never been in danger of cancellation, nor will it be in the foreseeable future. The only established series that need worry is Psyren. It's sales are iffy, it's rank rarely good. It should still be good enough to make it to year two, maybe even year three.


Ignoring Mx0, if a series made it that long, would it still be in danger? If it gets an anime by then great, but if not, why let a series last 3 years only to end it so suddenly? Seems so unfair. If it can survive Jump's initial screening (3 years is a looong time), I personally think it deserves the benefit of the doubt...

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 09:04 PM
Does anybody know that Mago sell more that Mx0? And is there any chance Mago might end like Mx0?

Finestela
June 10, 2009, 09:09 PM
Does anybody know that Mago sell more that Mx0? And is there any chance Mago might end like Mx0?

Yes ;)
Mx0's highest sales came from Vol.09, selling a total of 122,346 on Oricon.

Mago Vol. 04 sold 143,905 by week 3.

Bomber D Rufi
June 10, 2009, 09:39 PM
The real TOC, Issue 29

Toriko (cover, color)
Naruto
One Piece
Bleach
Beelzebub
Inumarudashi
Medaka Box
Kuromitsu - sama Mairu! (one shot, color)
Reborn
Akaboshi
Sket Dance
Kuroko
Mago
Eyeshield 21 (color, extra pages, end)
Gintama
Kochikame
Bakuman
Psyren
To Love Ru
Hoop Men
Jaguar



Is it bad that I looked at this list, and while I was thinking of Gintama's (possibly) impending doom....I was more relieved that if it DOES end I wouldn't have to translate those brain breaking amounts of text anymore?....rather than pissing myself in anxiety over an awesome jump series imploding?

Meh. I think I've become jaded enough by my favorite series ending so often that I don't care anymore. If Gintama is really gonna get sacked, (I know I know that it won't happen anytime soon since Sorachi's got clout now, but if it's this low WITH a successful anime, imagine what would happen if Sunrise backs out?) Then that would be one less reason for me to read Jump. I currently only care for One piece and Belzebub (or however it's spelled.) If those two somehow go somewhere, then it' be bye bye for WSJ for me. :-P Not that Shogakukan is doing me any favors.


....Maybe I need to learn to like Seinen.

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 10:29 PM
Is Gintama now losing their touch, or just Jiraia arc is not popular. I thought Jiraia arc is one of the best arc in Gintama.

Kaiten
June 10, 2009, 10:31 PM
Gintama's just filling the void left by D. Gray Man (T_T); a popular, best selling series that doesn't get the votes. The last volume sold as well as ever, the next volume will sell as well as that, and Gintama will last as long as Sorachi feels like being funny.

andrewsungchehau
June 10, 2009, 10:40 PM
One Piece sells is crazy as always.:p
Bleach is still on the karakura fraccion fight so I wouldn't surprise if it's a bit low than usual. Let's see how the following weeks result are anyway.
D Gray Man shouldn't be this low. Need more support. Hope it gets more in the following weeks.

Sexy Randal 105
June 10, 2009, 11:08 PM
How many top spots can there be? Everything is too damn successful for everyone to be doing good. They have to shift shit around. It's so confusing...

It'd be frustrating if series we have been following for thing long just ended...I want Mago and Psyren to live on!

Negative Syndicate
June 10, 2009, 11:14 PM
It'd be frustrating if series we have been following for thing long just ended...I want Mago and Psyren to live on!

Mago cannot be cancelled because it is doing very well for series that contains lots of other mega-hit Jump manga. I'm not sure if Psyren will survive long. This goes same for Sket Dance.

Rejuvenation
June 10, 2009, 11:43 PM
Hmm didn't Double Arts' first few volumes sell well too though?

Kaiten
June 10, 2009, 11:50 PM
Hmm didn't Double Arts' first few volumes sell well too though?

no

Koshi_Inaba
June 11, 2009, 12:00 AM
Double arts only got 3 volumes if I'm not mistaken. And each sold around psyren's number

Rejuvenation
June 11, 2009, 01:05 AM
no

Ah alright. I thought I remembered an earlier convo about the last volume selling a lot or something. Must have been mistaken.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 11, 2009, 02:12 PM
Is the issue where Eyeshield 21 ends number 28?

Negative Syndicate
June 11, 2009, 02:31 PM
Is the issue where Eyeshield 21 ends number 28?

No, it's issue 29.
I think the last chatper is going to upload tomorrow.

nassass
June 11, 2009, 03:42 PM
About Gintama. I saw manga selling lists, and the Gintama Character Book almost like Toriko. (and the character book has higher price).
And now the Gin-san Hijikata combo make better pozition on ToC.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 11, 2009, 07:58 PM
Question: Did any PoT volume exceed 1,000,000 copies?

Heiji-sama
June 11, 2009, 08:40 PM
Question: Did any PoT volume exceed 1,000,000 copies?
Yes Volume #16-22

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 11, 2009, 09:30 PM
Yes Volume #16-22

Okay, thanks. :)

Negative Syndicate
June 11, 2009, 11:12 PM
So Toriko gets the cover for their 1st year anniversary, compare to Psyren and Mago.

Jabberwocky
June 11, 2009, 11:26 PM
Toriko does sell better then Pysren and has a higher place in the TOC then Mago.

fxu
June 12, 2009, 01:45 AM
Wow... I'm more pissed at Bakuman #3 selling 200k copies.

Bakuman is good, but not 200k-sales-good. It's like people eat anything Ohba and Obata pull out of their asses. Or maybe because a lot of little kids wanna grow up to be mangakas and read Bakuman as some kind of reference/insight into the mangaka world.

I don't care how much Psyren sells, as long as they don't cancel it... :\

Crude
June 12, 2009, 09:21 AM
I just hope that Psyren's and Sket Dance's sales increase, although that would also mean Shueisha is dominating the charts.

Jabberwocky
June 12, 2009, 02:11 PM
With Beelzebub doing so well in the TOC, Any one think that will translate to high sales when the first volume comes out?

SameOld
June 12, 2009, 04:52 PM
With Beelzebub doing so well in the TOC, Any one think that will translate to high sales when the first volume comes out?

That's hard to tell... some series are high in the ToCs but have crappy sales (Inumaru is an example). But if it's true that Beelze is already starting to become a battle manga, then I can see its sales being pretty decent as early as volume 1.

Negative Syndicate
June 12, 2009, 04:59 PM
That's hard to tell... some series are high in the ToCs but have crappy sales (Inumaru is an example).

Actually, Inumaru's ranking was not that in high in the beginning. It recently went up to top 5.

Crude
June 12, 2009, 05:32 PM
I'm not sure why Beezle is so high. It is a good series, but not as good as Sket Dance (in both art and comedy). It has some very funny moments, but it lacks something.

Negative Syndicate
June 12, 2009, 06:00 PM
I'm not sure why Beezle is so high. It is a good series, but not as good as Sket Dance (in both art and comedy). It has some very funny moments, but it lacks something.

I agree with the art, but the comedy is way better than Sket Dance. Sket Dance's comedy style are very similar to Gintama (or influenced from Gintama because Shinohara was an assistant of Sorachi), so there is not much impact on Sket Dance's comedy. I think Beelzebub is much better series than Ske Dance.

Finestela
June 12, 2009, 07:47 PM
I think it is due to the fact that there hasn't been a nice Juvenile Delinquent (the "Yankee" genre) series with appealing art in WSJ for a long time... (Bari Haken was nice, but the art might not be attractive enough for everyone). So when a decent one like Beelze comes along, it's bound to attract some of the younger readers who never read -Boy- or Rookies... (though, technically, Rookies can also be considered as a Sports series... :p)

Tru_TO
June 12, 2009, 09:20 PM
i don't think that Beelzebub will be a long manga like a 100 chaps or anything, i think it'll end within the next 10-20 chapters.

Kaiten
June 12, 2009, 09:35 PM
No, actually it won't. The critical ranking period is the first 10 weeks. If a series is consistantly rated in the top ten during that time it is pretty much guaranteed to last a year. Sket, Psyren, and Mago all consistantly ranked in the top ten for more then ten weeks. Beelzebub has also ranked in the top ten long enough to guarantee it a year.

Tru_TO
June 12, 2009, 11:07 PM
^^ i mean that the author might not be planning for a long manga, if he is i wanna see a skirmish in hell or heaven

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 12, 2009, 11:23 PM
I would too, but let's not oversell the plot. Only four things have been show so far. Deliquents. Naked baby. Reluctant protagonist. Weak villains. Nothing has been shown that would indicate anything deeper. I hope it happens though.

Sexy Randal 105
June 12, 2009, 11:42 PM
I could see Beezlebub turning into a a series like Reborn. They are going through introductions now, but will eventually get into battle manga territory.

Finestela
June 12, 2009, 11:46 PM
I'm more gearing toward it being something similar to A Cheeky Angel or Ocha ni Gosu :p (without the gag/pun though, but more comedy).

We don't need another Reborn... :D:D

Kaiten
June 12, 2009, 11:47 PM
God help me if there's any box animals.

Rejuvenation
June 12, 2009, 11:53 PM
I'm actually curious about what the fandom/Jump reaction will be if it doesn't go into the full-blown battle manga route. It seems many are hoping that is the way it goes.


God help me if there's any box animals.

There would be box demons and angels instead. >.>

Kaiten
June 13, 2009, 12:10 AM
There would be box demons and angels instead. >.>

I died a little inside just thinking about that.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 13, 2009, 02:28 AM
Anyone have an idea when the new series are supposed to be coming?

Kaiten
June 13, 2009, 02:48 AM
Having to guess: July. Hoop will end next week or the week after. Then everything will be clear. Seems like Medaka and Akaboshi just started, but both will be almost two months old soon.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 13, 2009, 02:51 AM
Having to guess: July. Hoop will end next week or the week after. Then everything will be clear. Seems like Medaka and Akaboshi just started, but both will be almost two months old soon.


Yeah and I don't see either one being cancelled anytime soon either...

Kaiten
June 13, 2009, 03:01 AM
Once I see real rankings I'll be more comfortable. I really like both series, they and Beelzebub more then make up for the crap new series from the beginning of the year. Hopefully neither end, but I won't get my hopes up. It's been a long time, since before I followed, that back to back debuts both succeeded.

SameOld
June 13, 2009, 06:44 AM
Once I see real rankings I'll be more comfortable. I really like both series, they and Beelzebub more then make up for the crap new series from the beginning of the year. Hopefully neither end, but I won't get my hopes up. It's been a long time, since before I followed, that back to back debuts both succeeded.

If their current placements are any indication, both are equally successful and should stay in the top half of the magazine once ranked... making the bottom half even more crowded and putting Psyren and Sket in SERIOUS trouble unless a brand new cushion pops up pretty soon.

Crude
June 13, 2009, 08:57 AM
Although I'd like to see Hoop rise, I definitely don't mind it being a cushion for Psyren and Sket if they're in that much trouble.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 13, 2009, 10:42 AM
I love new series but I'm hoping this batch sucks because if they don't Psyren and Mago will be screwed (assuming Akaboshi and Box are hits). Then again, it could be possible that things like Beezlebub and Kuroko may just be a temporary fad. They are okay, but definitely could not carry the magazine assuming the older ones end someday...

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 11:15 AM
I think we need to stop assuming that WSJ will remain the same thickness along with the same number of series, when it's actually been growing for the past few years.

Personally, I hope all the series are successful (selling at least 50k+ in tanks eventually), and the editors would just add more pages to the magazine with minimal trimming.

I mean what's the point in introducing new series just to be cushions?

Rejuvenation
June 13, 2009, 11:25 AM
^Lets send you to convince Jump to follow that line of thought. :D

Seriously, if they just increased the number of available pages that would be cool and more of a relief on certain series.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 13, 2009, 11:53 AM
Seriously, if they just increased the number of available pages that would be cool and more of a relief on certain series.


Wouldn't that cost more money or something? I'm sure there is a reason they haven't done something like that...

[Cross]
June 13, 2009, 11:57 AM
Well, to be fair, it is rather cheap at the price it is now. It costs less than 500 yen doesn't it?
But if you meant the money to produce the magazine, not buy it, then yes, I would assume that it'd cost much more.

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 12:08 PM
^Lets send you to convince Jump to follow that line of thought. :D

Seriously, if they just increased the number of available pages that would be cool and more of a relief on certain series.

I'm fairly sure they've been doing a lot of rethinking about their way of doing things. Pimping a series like they did for Toriko/Kuroko/Beelze for one...

What I do think they need to do the most right now is... start selling electronic copies of the damn magazine for crying out loud... = =" It would increase sales, promote their company's environmental friendly image (less paper, less ink, less transporation), and lower the cost.

[Cross]
June 13, 2009, 12:31 PM
What I do think they need to do the most right now is... start selling electronic copies of the damn magazine for crying out loud... = =" It would increase sales, promote their company's environmental friendly image (less paper, less ink, less transporation), and lower the cost.

What do you mean selling electronic copies? I think deviating from the brick and mortar paperback editions would probably drive some people mad (them crazy otakus for example) but it would be a smart move economically.

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 12:46 PM
I'm talking about a modified version of what they're doing with Kurohime serialization.

Have a viewer program with the capability of making purchase of the magazine and download it onto your computer. Then just read it with the viewer.

Mr. Prince
June 13, 2009, 12:59 PM
Yeah, an e-paper version of JUMP would be really great! Especially for people not from Japan...

I would definitely order something like that.

Kaiten
June 13, 2009, 01:03 PM
Having an electronic version wouldn't mean scrapping the print version. It would just mean supplementing sales with an add supported internet version. If they could make it viewable on PSP/DS/Mobile Phones it would be a phenomenon.

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 01:29 PM
Having an electronic version wouldn't mean scrapping the print version. It would just mean supplementing sales with an add supported internet version. If they could make it viewable on PSP/DS/Mobile Phones it would be a phenomenon.

They're already doing that with some chapters of certain series (on Cell Phones at least)... so the technology is there ;)

Maxy Barnard
June 13, 2009, 03:36 PM
I think it is due to the fact that there hasn't been a nice Juvenile Delinquent (the "Yankee" genre) series with appealing art in WSJ for a long time... (Bari Haken was nice, but the art might not be attractive enough for everyone). So when a decent one like Beelze comes along, it's bound to attract some of the younger readers who never read -Boy- or Rookies... (though, technically, Rookies can also be considered as a Sports series... :p)

*has to mention that ROOKIES is one of the two best WSJ series EVARRRRRR alongside Space Adventure Cobra*


I could see Beezlebub turning into a a series like Reborn. They are going through introductions now, but will eventually get into battle manga territory.

please god no!


Anyway to catch up more with the topic: I honestly can see Jump adding two more series to the roster and not killing anything by the end of the year, expanding the total page count a fair amount. They're learning more from new successes than ever before (i think) about how top heavy they are. that and it'd preserve series like Sket and Psyren (Sket being safer than psyren in my opinion, but that changes CONSTANTLY)

Negative Syndicate
June 13, 2009, 05:24 PM
I think MedakaBox and Akaboshi are going to survive on the next cut. Does anyone know that which one is more popular, so far?

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 05:44 PM
I think MedakaBox and Akaboshi are going to survive on the next cut. Does anyone know that which one is more popular, so far?

Just look at their respective ToC... :p
They're about the same I'd say, and both moderately popular, from the steepness of their initial drop and rebound.

Galactic Tomahawk
June 13, 2009, 06:03 PM
I really don't think you guys should rely on the early non-rankings so much. There's always been series doing around this well right up until they reach the actual rankings, upon which they tank hard.

If you look as recently as Meister and Bokke-san, they weren't quite as high as Medaka and Akaboshi have been, but they were doing alright and pretty much consistently beating Kuroko until each hit their respective eight chapter mark and the situation completely reversed.

Jabberwocky
June 13, 2009, 06:16 PM
Medaka and sket sket dance will be battling for survival in the coming weeks after Medaka Box hits its 8th chapter.

SameOld
June 13, 2009, 06:32 PM
If you look as recently as Meister and Bokke-san, they weren't quite as high as Medaka and Akaboshi have been, but they were doing alright and pretty much consistently beating Kuroko until each hit their respective eight chapter mark and the situation completely reversed.

Something tells me Bokke-san was given a little more respect because the author just returned from a moderately succesful, 18-volume series. He did get a color page for no apparent reason when his series had already tanked, didn't he?
And if I recall, Asklepios started sinking even before chapter 8, while Chagecha didn't even reach the point where it'd start ranking. Meister is a mystery.

On a side note, has anyone read the one-shots published in the last two weeks? are they any good?

Jabberwocky
June 13, 2009, 06:43 PM
On a side note, has anyone read the one-shots published in the last two weeks? are they any good?

I looked at the the raw of one it looked like it was bout a little girl with super human strength and cat like reflexes. She lives with or is friends with a bunch of kung-fu cats.
http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/31576/1

Finestela
June 13, 2009, 06:43 PM
I really don't think you guys should rely on the early non-rankings so much. There's always been series doing around this well right up until they reach the actual rankings, upon which they tank hard.

Erm... not really... When a series tanked early, it's more likely to crash than not.
And Bokke's early ranking sucked...




Bokke 1 9 12 11 13 13 8 12 16 17
My Star 1 7 8 12 13 10 12 17 18 18
Beelze 1 4 9 11 7 7 4 6 7 10
Medaka 1 4 8 7 10 7
Akaboshi 1 4 9 7 9



Both Bokke and My Star crashed and stayed below second digit rankings early on, while Beelze rebounded back to single digit as early as chapter 5.

Same with Medaka and Akaboshi, the dip wasn't even that hard to begin with for them.

The early weeks takes into account of snap polls (as oppose to 8 chapter poll like other series), and it's been known to play an important in how the series might go on.

Galactic Tomahawk
June 13, 2009, 06:52 PM
Yeah. Not to say that there aren't some series that'll rank higher or lower to reflect their popularity, but there's quite a few that have gone in the other direction and I've rarely found it a very reliable method this early on. The reason that was cited for Bokke-san is pretty much a perfect example of a way this could happen.

Edit: Bokke's are slightly lower than I remember, but it was more about the reversal with Kuroko than that.

Kaiten
June 13, 2009, 11:08 PM
The first ten weeks determine weather a series lives or dies. The series that do well in the snap polls are the ones that last past twenty chapters.

Jabberwocky
June 14, 2009, 02:00 AM
Reading the oneshot "Kiben Gakuha, Yotsuya Sensei no Kaidan" from jump issue 28. Its different.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 06:29 AM
The first ten weeks determine weather a series lives or dies. The series that do well in the snap polls are the ones that last past twenty chapters.

*Nod*
The only one I could recall that actually defied this was P2...




P2 1 10 4 11 10 16 15 10 17 15


I can't think of anything else :/

Koen
June 14, 2009, 06:40 AM
@Finestela: could you please check out the positions from those series when their true rating started and onwards... Maybe there's some consistency in those beginning positions and their true rated positions.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 07:40 AM
Title W1/8 W2/9 W3/10 W4/11 W5/12 W6/13 W7/14 --/15
P2 1C 10 4C 11 10 16 15
8~15 10 17 15 18 19 20 22 22

Bokke 1C 9C 12 11 13 13 8
8~15 13 16 17 17 10C 17 19 17

My Star 1C 7C 8 12 14 10 12
8~15 18 19 19

Beelze 1C 4C 9 11 7 7 4
8~15 6C 7 10C 5 8 1C 10 4

Medaka 1C 4C 8 7 10 7
Akaboshi 1C 4C 9 7 9



*C denotes for cover and/or color pages

I think My Star was stick in the back not because it polled THAT bad for chapter 1~3, but rather that it's getting cut...

Maxy Barnard
June 14, 2009, 09:09 AM
*Nod*
The only one I could recall that actually defied this was P2...




P2 1 10 4 11 10 16 15 10 17 15


I can't think of anything else :/

P2 will always be the magic exception to ANY RULE, especially when considering the final two volumes hit the shonen top 10 on their week of release, something nobody expected.


Medaka and sket sket dance will be battling for survival in the coming weeks after Medaka Box hits its 8th chapter.

a soon to be 2 year long series versus a newcomer? even with the similar premises I wouldn't say that's a battle that exists.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 11:33 AM
Ko-neta's out...




53 : ◆EizHb38XPU :2009/06/15(月) 01:26:28 ID:4azcjCcXO
小ネタ
・30ドベ6 フープ、とら、黒子、スケ、ぬら、PSY
・31巻頭@ C読切、鰤、べるぜ<32もC




2009-30, Bottom 6:
Psyren
Mago
Sket Dance
Kuroko
ToLoveRu
Hoopman

2009-31
Lead CP: Naruto
CP: 1-shot, Bleach, Beelze (Also CP for Beelze in 2009-32)

Crude
June 14, 2009, 11:36 AM
So as soon as ES21 leaves, Kuroko bombs?

Rejuvenation
June 14, 2009, 11:37 AM
Well well well, Kuroko fell pretty damn low. No surprises there. If it becomes a trend I'll lol and be happy with a new cushion. =P

Psyren, Sket, and Mago in the basement. =/

Bleach and Beelzebub do not need anymore colors for a while. Beelzebub getting them back-to-back is a bit much.

Medaka not being placed in the bottom 5 in the 7th week is good too. Only one more week to see its true ranking. :D

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 11:40 AM
Kuroko crashed... Or maybe an outlier?
Psyren, Mago, and Sket Dance all near the bottom = a bit annoying...
Lead CP for Naruto... it better not be another Sasuke pimping :p
And Beelze getting TWO CONSECUTIVE ISSUES OF CP!??! Come on!! That's waaaaaay too obvious pimping right there...

Googlez_kun
June 14, 2009, 11:41 AM
naruto gets a cover :dance

well anyway
i'm kind of confused because i didn't saw the toriko cover...where is it??
or hasn't it come out yet?
thanks in advance

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 11:49 AM
naruto gets a cover :dance

well anyway
i'm kind of confused because i didn't saw the toriko cover...where is it??
or hasn't it come out yet?
thanks in advance

It hasn't come out yet. :)

kewl0210
June 14, 2009, 12:04 PM
The Toriko cover came out a few days ago. It's right here:
http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/34523/1

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 12:05 PM
...what...the...hell. Beezle, two colours in a row? Should that be possible? Well it's not fair. Kuroko bombed so quickly I forgot what it's previous rank was, I'd laugh if it gets cut before Hoop Men. Sket doing low in the Bossun past arc is sorta disconcerning. And we haven't seen any Sauce-que for quite some time, I'm not surprised that he gets a colour page, let alone the lead colour.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 12:09 PM
The Toriko cover came out a few days ago. It's right here:
http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/34523/1

Ahhh... Thanks Kewl

<----Idiot who got the issue number confused :scry :scry

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 14, 2009, 12:13 PM
Has Naruto, One Piece or any series ever gotton two color pages in a row? Ridiculous. I mean, pass one of those on to Psyren or something...

Rejuvenation
June 14, 2009, 12:19 PM
Even Jump's pimping of Toriko and Kuroko never earned them two covers in a row. I seriously want to see how this series sells when Volume 1 comes out.


;1401772']...what...the...hell. Beezle, two colours in a row? Should that be possible? Well it's not fair. Kuroko bombed so quickly I forgot what it's previous rank was, I'd laugh if it gets cut before Hoop Men. Sket doing low in the Bossun past arc is sorta disconcerning. And we haven't seen any Sauce-que for quite some time, I'm not surprised that he gets a colour page, let alone the lead colour.

Kuroko #10 last week and #8 the week before.

Getting cut before Hoop Men would actually be pretty shameful. Especially after all Jump put into it what with 7 freaking colors so far. >.>

SameOld
June 14, 2009, 12:19 PM
I don't think Kuroko bombed, this chapter was the last one before the Seihou match. Not only it was a really boring chapter, it was the last in a 4-chapter period with no matches. Seeing as the audience preferred a series with lots of fast-paced action (Kuroko) to one that takes its time to develop the characters (Hoop), it makes me think they are simply eager for action and don't want anything else no matter what, be it pre-match tension or whatever else. If Kuroko rises again next week, my theory will be confirmed. :P

Sket falling again made me laugh. Seriously. And Beelze is being so goddamn fucking ridiculously pimped It's starting to piss me off. And I used to like it at first. Oh well.

At least Psyren got back to the (somewhat) safe zone and Mago got back to the place it belongs to.

Koen
June 14, 2009, 01:04 PM
Mago got back to the place it belongs to.

I wouldn't say it belongs there. I think mago's recent arcs are more for adult people than for young kiddies. Mago is really different imo (I wouldn't be surprised if its high selling rates could be explained to an extent that a none-wsj public buys them)

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 01:25 PM
Has Naruto, One Piece or any series ever gotton two color pages in a row? Ridiculous. I mean, pass one of those on to Psyren or something...

I can not recall reading two chapters in row of Naruto or One Piece with color. Bleach certainly has; chapter 150 and 151 were both in color. Also, the entirety of chapter 162 was in color. I'm happy about Beelzebub pimping, it's a great series. It's deserved.

SameOld
June 14, 2009, 01:37 PM
I wouldn't say it belongs there. I think mago's recent arc are more for adult people than for young kiddies. Mago is really different imo (I wouldn't be surprised if its high selling rates could be explained because a none-wsj public buys them)

I say it belongs there because I find it uninteresting and poorly done, not because the bottom position is fitting for a series of its genre or because it isn't aimed at the same public as the rest of Jump's current lineup.


The problem with Mago is that it gives too much attention to explaining who the youkai are and what's their "power", while the actual characterization is completely left behind. Whenever a new character appears, it presents itself, shows some kind of special ability, fights someone and that's it. When this isn't happening, the interactions between the characters (especially Ao/Kuro and Rikuo's human friends) are so simplistic and stupid they seem like an afterthought. I mean, does anyone really like Kiyotsugu or those two other girls? And why the heck does a bunch of middle school kids talk only about youkai and nothing else?

Besides, the narrative is boring, the battles except for the last one are too short and simplistic (I know they aren't the main focus of the manga but still...), the supposedly funny moments haven't made me laugh even once and the dramatic moments are spoiled by the characters' own lack of depth. So it's basically an average at best manga that fails at every kind of execution yet gets everyone's love by its concept alone. I'll be happy as long as it's in the bottom, and if it's cancelled I definitely won't miss it.

Magicoreo
June 14, 2009, 01:43 PM
I've got a question.

With the Summer Akamaru that's going to be announced, I've heard about all the Akamaru Jump for Summer, Spring, and Winter but never heard anything about any Akamaru for the Fall/Autumn.

Does it exist?

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 01:50 PM
I've got a question.

With the Summer Akamaru that's going to be announced, I've heard about all the Akamaru Jump for Summer, Spring, and Winter but never heard anything about any Akamaru for the Fall/Autumn.

Does it exist?

No. Akamaru is three times a year: New Years, Golden Week, and Bon.

Magicoreo
June 14, 2009, 01:52 PM
Oh, I see...
I've assumed it'd come out for times a year since it was named after the 4 seasons. I guess it's only 3 seasons then. ^^
Thanks for clearing that up!

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 02:00 PM
Your welcome!

Akamaru follows the major holidays rather then the seasons, coming out after the double issues.

Galactic Tomahawk
June 14, 2009, 02:36 PM
Wow what a bad bottom six. :(


So it's basically an average at best manga that fails at every kind of execution yet gets everyone's love by its concept alone.

Or they just have different tastes. That's known to happen on the internet from time to time.

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 02:40 PM
The coming weeks will be interesting, because Medaka and Akaboshi will not only get ranked, but surely we'll get news on whether HXH/DGM will return or if there will be new series after the long string of oneshots end.

Koen
June 14, 2009, 02:45 PM
;1402052']The coming weeks will be interesting, because Medaka and Akaboshi will not only get ranked, but surely we'll get news on whether HXH/DGM will return or if there will be new series after the long string of oneshots end.

But still:

es21 ended, thus there's now already two spots (one spot is continiously taken by the one shots) and if some serie might be cancelled then it'll be hoop men for sure: making it three spots.

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 02:54 PM
But still:

es21 ended, thus there's now already two spots (one spot is continiously taken by the one shots) and if some serie might be cancelled then it'll be hoop men for sure: making it three spots.

Actually, I'm hoping that Kuroko's recent trend proves true and laugh at the irony that the pimped newcomer might get cut when opposed to the series that dropped to the bottom before it was even ranked.

SameOld
June 14, 2009, 03:10 PM
;1402076']Actually, I'm hoping that Kuroko's recent trend proves true and laugh at the irony that the pimped newcomer might get cut when opposed to the series that dropped to the bottom before it was even ranked.

Won't happen. It's just a single week. If it's still at the bottom next week then I'll start worrying, but now right now. Just look at what happened to Bakuman last week.

By the way, I would LOVE to see Beelze in the Bottom 5 at least once. With its pimpage level skyrocketing with the upcoming double CP, that'd be something to really laugh about.

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 03:16 PM
Won't happen. It's just a single week. If it's still at the bottom next week then I'll start worrying, but now right now. Just look at what happened to Bakuman last week.

By the way, I would LOVE to see Beelze in the Bottom 5 at least once. With its pimpage level skyrocketing with the upcoming double CP, that'd be something to really laugh about.

That's why I said I hope the trend follows, I'm well aware that there is the possibility that it wont' next week. As for Beezle, there might be a point where the generous colours will end...I don't think this trend will be forever.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 03:30 PM
Feh. After two years of people complaining new series were being left to die it's slightly irritating that now everyone is complaining now that they are getting promoted x_X

Beelzebub is a good series and a really fun read. Why not promote it? Why not promote Toriko? Why not promote Kuroko? I may not have liked the latter, but, there's no reason that series with good snap polls should not be advertised. Build on the initial success and create a stronger foundation for the series. Jump is turning into a more interesting, varied magazine. Look at the survivors from 2005 and later and rather then the pre - 2004 over reliance on action you'll see a wider assortment of genre. Jump is a better magazine now then it was in 2007 or 2008, partially thanks to the editors taking care of series that show potential and early popularity.

Rejuvenation
June 14, 2009, 03:30 PM
I'm actually happy they are getting promoted. Just could spread things out a bit more rather than just going for one or two series for months on end before going to another.

Any bets on the next series to get pimped by Jump?

We have had Kuroko and Beelzebub this year as far as new comers go. Bleach takes it as far as long running series are concerned.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 03:32 PM
I'm actually happy they are getting promoted. Just could spread things out a bit more rather than just going for one or two series for months on end.

Any bets on the next series to get pimped by Jump?

We have had Kuroko and Beelzebub this year as far as new comers go. Bleach takes it as far as long running series are concerned.

Medaka and Akaboshi, hopefully. I really like both!

Koen
June 14, 2009, 03:35 PM
Well I think there's nothing wrong with promotion but there should be at least a fair chance for some privileges. Okay, sket dance, psyren, mago,... aren't the series that'll get a cover but if bleach and kuroko get a CP 1.000.000 times after each other then I simply wonder: why not psyren, why not mago, why not sket dance at least once

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 04:11 PM
Unfortunately, at this point, Mago, Sket, and Psyren may be past the point where that type of promotion works. For the series under 20 chapters the extra color builds brand recognition. As they are to new to have many fans with strong opinions color, or more precisely, being placed in the front or center of the magazine, will draw people in. For more established series like those you mentioned, readers are more likely to have an opinion, to judge them on chapters they read earlier. They either already like, already hate, or are already indifferent. Since Jump's circulation is basically static, rising by less then a percentage every quarter, there are few new readers to attract to any series, only the same pool barely modified as there was when they started a year or so ago. Big series (Naruto, Bleach, etc.) don't benefit from extra color but the more familiar series on the cover is a measure to reduce the risk that readers won't take a week off. The famous series are more likely to draw their eyes to Jump. Sket, Psyren, and Mago are entering another phase; as they near two years the odds of them being animated go up. Sket will most likely get an anime this fall. If it is a day time show, which I doubt, it could really boost popularity. As I believe it will be a late night show with lower ratings and an emphasis on DVD sales, I doubt it will push the manga, rather it will solidify the fanbase much as To Love Ru's anime did. Psyren and Mago's could stand to be more beneficial, being more likely to air in the late afternoon.

SameOld
June 14, 2009, 04:11 PM
Well I think there's nothing wrong with promotion but there should be at least a fair chance for some privileges. Okay, sket dance, psyren, mago,... aren't the series that'll get a cover but if bleach and kuroko get a CP 1.000.000 times after each other then I simply wonder: why not psyren, why not mago, why not sket dance at least once

That's my point. The problem isn't that some series are getting pimped (I like Kuroko and - for the time being - also like Beelze, mind you), but that by pimping only two you pretty much ignore everyone else. I'm cool with many CPs for series x as long as they don't let series y rotting in the basement. Hoop Men, for example, could even slowly make its way back up with a bit more support, but no - the editors would rather support what doesn't need to be supported right now.

kim09
June 14, 2009, 05:18 PM
That's my point. The problem isn't that some series are getting pimped (I like Kuroko and - for the time being - also like Beelze, mind you), but that by pimping only two you pretty much ignore everyone else. I'm cool with many CPs for series x as long as they don't let series y rotting in the basement. Hoop Men, for example, could even slowly make its way back up with a bit more support, but no - the editors would rather support what doesn't need to be supported right now.

Completely agree with him.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 05:56 PM
Hoop Men, for example, could even slowly make its way back up with a bit more support, but no - the editors would rather support what doesn't need to be supported right now.

Why bother advertising something that's rejected from the beginning? Every chapter of Hoop Men has been ranked in the double digits. Toriko, Kuroko, and Beelzebub's first three chapters all polled above ten. Why try squeezing water from a stone when you can concentrate on series with potential fans. It's a shame this wasn't done when Sket and Psyren were new. Mago got quite a few color pages when it was new, as did Double Arts. Not so many as the more recent series, but they were Jump's first recent attempts to promote new series.

youko kurama
June 14, 2009, 06:10 PM
which one you think that will get an anime first?

I say probably Psyren or Bakuman

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 06:30 PM
Out of just those two? Psyren. It's older and will have enough chapters for a 51 episode anime by April 2010. Bakuman most likely won't get anything until October of the same year.

Hungrybookworm at the WSJ LJ posted the lead seiyu for the Sket Dance drama CD:

Bossun: Hiroyuki YOSHINO (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=507)
Himeko: Ryoko SHIRAISHI (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=16480)
Switch: Tomokazu SUGITA (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=910)

Good casting, all three are great seiyu. They do make me think JC Staff will be doing the anime, the first two actors work with that studio quite a bit.

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 06:34 PM
I'm very interested to hear Sugita doing Switch. Though, would it make sense since it's suppose to be computerized...sorta. Or maybe his computer imitates voice and isn't robotic, it'd be very amusing to find out.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 07:11 PM
They'll probably use some sort of effect on his voice to make him sound like Stephen Hawking.

SameOld
June 14, 2009, 07:30 PM
Why try squeezing water from a stone when you can concentrate on series with potential fans.

Because if something's already successful enough, there isn't any reason to advertise it that much anymore? Besides, the way I see it, advertising the less popular series would be a way to try and make every series running in Jump have good sales and a fanbase. I can't see how having two huge hits and a bunch of failures can be any better than having two huge hits and a bunch of moderately successful series.

Oh, and I should reiterate that I'm not stating Jump shound IGNORE Beelzebub and Kuroko and start giving color pages ONLY to the least popular series. What I want is a fair distribution. Every series should at least have a CP every once in a while. Not to mention having the same 4-5 series in the cover and CPs every week must feel repetitive to the readers. No matter how you look at it, what Jump has been doing is RETARDED. It's like they're so scared of losing a COUPLE of precious newcomers they end up forgetting there are MANY potential hits in the back of the magazine. Psyren, for instance, could be insanely popular among the readers if it were given the right treatment. But now it may be too late.

Maxy Barnard
June 14, 2009, 07:47 PM
;1402362']I'm very interested to hear Sugita doing Switch. Though, would it make sense since it's suppose to be computerized...sorta. Or maybe his computer imitates voice and isn't robotic, it'd be very amusing to find out.

Didn't Switch-Off say that the computer voice is one of a kind, sounding exactly like him or his brother?

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 07:56 PM
Didn't Switch-Off say that the computer voice is one of a kind, sounding exactly like him or his brother?

It said it created a natural voice, so I guess that's our answer.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 08:12 PM
Regarding the uber-pimping... Here's my take:

Think of it as an investment. The editors has only so many "free" CP/cover they can give out for pure-pimping usage. It makes sense for them to use them on something that, at least in their mind, would yield the greatest return.

You have two choices here: maximize sales for a developed series, or bet on something that might become a new hit. In a perfect world, they would do both... but when they have to choose one or the other, they picked the latter.

I'm not saying it's the better choice, but rather the logic behind the choice. If Beelze could become the next Bleach/Naruto/OP, why not give it an early boost?

I agree with the fact that it's being done at the expense of Psyren/Sket/Mago, which could really use some love right now... :scry :scry

Hoop is just an unfortunate victim in my opinion. It's not that bad actually, but just... different. To quote Bakuman (I know some of you guys are gonna hate me for quoting Bakuman :p), it's really "not Jump-esque"

Negative Syndicate
June 14, 2009, 08:48 PM
Sket, Psyren, Mago, and Kuroko are in the bottom 5, But I'm not worry too much because actually almost every series in Jump are damn good, so some of the series have to go bottom because there are no spot for them on top or middle. So, I don't think Jump will going to cancel those series.

In change of subject, there was a rumor that Hoopmen will be cancel in issue 31, but looks like there is no information about it. Is that means the rumor is 100 percent false?

Rejuvenation
June 14, 2009, 09:03 PM
I don't think it really matters what issue Hoop Men gets canceled in since we all know that it is the next inevitable cut.

When it gets cut is probably just going to be a sign of a new series being brought in. Or chapters of HiatusXHiatus.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 09:04 PM
I would say it pretty much threw that out of the window, along with any rumor that Mago or Sket is ending :p

Jabberwocky
June 14, 2009, 09:34 PM
I would like more D.gray-man chapters instead of a new series.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 09:54 PM
Because if something's already successful enough, there isn't any reason to advertise it that much anymore? Besides, the way I see it, advertising the less popular series would be a way to try and make every series running in Jump have good sales and a fanbase. I can't see how having two huge hits and a bunch of failures can be any better than having two huge hits and a bunch of moderately successful series.

Unfortunately if you don't promote a series that shows signs of popularity early you end up with Psyren and Sket, series that have achieved a degree of popularity but haven't lived up to their potential. With Hoop Men (or Bokke, My Star, etc.) you know your audience has rejected it by chapter 3. Why try and force them to read it? That's not how advertising works. You don't keep pounding New Coke down peoples throat, you reintroduce Coke Classic and cut your losses. Same with Hoop Men; get enough chapters for two volumes, cancel it, and introduce something that might get a positive reaction. And of course, you concentrate time, effort, and money on product that theirs demand for.

BTW: Jump does not have two huge hits. 15 series, not counting the upcoming volumes of Eyeshield, are hits when compared to the sales of series from any other magazine. Considering the least popular series sell as much as the middle tier of Sunday or Magazine, that's a pretty loaded roster.

eni
June 14, 2009, 10:29 PM
Switch: Tomokazu SUGITA (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=910)
Awesome choice! :luv I shall catch up with the manga right away!

I don't know the other two, though. Or can't remember them. How common is a drama cd for a Jump manga anyway? It was always such a 'shoujo' thing to me for whatever reason.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
Hatsukoi had one right before the anime came out. Other then that, I'm not sure.

Sugita is an awesome seiyu, can't argue with that!! The other two are very good too. Yoshino played Kai in Blood+, Kimblee in the new FMA, Yoshimori in Kekkaishi, Godai in Neuro, Ox in Soul Eater, among many roles. Shiraishi is Hayate in Hayate no Gotoku, Meguru in Hatsukoi, and a lot of roles I'm not familiar with. Both are quite accomplished and really good choices.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 10:43 PM
It is, more of a shoujo thing as oppose to shounen thing :p
I mean LaLa and Hana to Yume both have yearly drama CDs featuring the popular series. Also, the older series would almost always get individual drama CD at one point.

But for shounen series, they seem to be more of a "testing the water for anime".

eni
June 14, 2009, 11:00 PM
Oh, Yoshimori's voice? That would fit perfectly my personal imagination of the character. Nice choice.

Hm... Fine, maybe also because a 'bishie voice' whispering sweet words into a fangirl ear promotes a manga better than a audio battle does when it tries to sell explosions and kick-ass weapons to the average teen boy ^^

The soft voice of the seiyuu is surely a selling point for shoujo drama cds. It adds a lot to the character when you imagine him with that smexy sound. But something like Bleach as an audio cd... uhm... that would require a whole story focused on pure character interactions without any impressive visuals. May simply not work for the majority of action shounen to feature it as a regular media, I guess. But Sket has a good basic for it.

[Cross]
June 14, 2009, 11:22 PM
Hm...I get the feeling that I'm getting overly excited for something that might come out later than I expected. How long do series usually take to get their anime after a drama CD? TLR's drama CD was released in February 2008 and the anime aired in April of that same year, so maybe given the release date of this drama CD, we might have something to go on.

Kaiten
June 14, 2009, 11:28 PM
They usually announce drama CD first, wait a bit, and then announce the anime. I'm assuming the anime will air in October. And I doubt they'd bother hiring such well known seiyu if an anime weren't in development.

Finestela
June 14, 2009, 11:45 PM
Well, TLR's drama cd was actually announced in September 2007 :p Though it didn't come out until February 2008.

The anime announcement came in late December 2007. So that's about 3 full months before the anime aired.

Koshi_Inaba
June 15, 2009, 12:07 AM
A little OT, who do you think would be the right for the seiyuu of Rikuo (Mago) and Ageha (psyren) if they are made into anime?

Crude
June 15, 2009, 02:20 AM
Hmmph, Yumiko Kobayashi (Black Star, though with a calm voice) for normal Rikuo and Daisuke Ono (Sebastian from Kuroshitsuji) or Daisuke Namikawa (Ulquiorra) for his other self. As for Ageha, Fukuyama Jun (Lelouch, I was always pictured him for Ageha for some reason), Kenichi Suzumura (Lavi from DGM), actually I'm not really sure about who is VA should be.

VASSiLi
June 15, 2009, 02:59 AM
uhuh glad to see bakuman out of bottom 5!

Heiji-sama
June 15, 2009, 03:00 AM
http://www.monsterup.com/upload/124505273963.jpg (http://www.monsterup.com)

http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1245052739936.jpg (http://www.monsterup.com)
http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1245052781812.jpg (http://www.monsterup.com)

¬Bol
June 15, 2009, 04:12 AM
Why is Kuroko in bottom 5?
Why is Psyren in bottom 5 (again)?
Why? ç____ç

Tru_TO
June 15, 2009, 04:18 AM
do you think the Bleach plot can get good again, cuz its boring as fuck atm.

Koen
June 15, 2009, 04:21 AM
What's with people saying psyren in bottom 5? Might be better to check everything because if you can count well psyren is not in the bottom 5: there's hoop men, TLR, Kuroko, Sket and Mago -> that's a bottom 5

So psyren is just out of the danger zone :)

youko kurama
June 15, 2009, 04:34 AM
A little OT, who do you think would be the right for the seiyuu of Rikuo (Mago) and Ageha (psyren) if they are made into anime?

for Ageha the same seiyu than Yusuke Urameshi

and Rikuo: Kappei Yamaguchi (Inuyasha, Ranma, L) for both roles

SameOld
June 15, 2009, 05:47 AM
Unfortunately if you don't promote a series that shows signs of popularity early you end up with Psyren and Sket, series that have achieved a degree of popularity but haven't lived up to their potential.


There's "not pimping", "pimping" and "pimping too much". Sket and Psyren were not pimped. Beelze is being pimped too much when simply being pimped would suffice. That's the point I'm trying to make.



With Hoop Men (or Bokke, My Star, etc.) you know your audience has rejected it by chapter 3. Why try and force them to read it? That's not how advertising works. You don't keep pounding New Coke down peoples throat, you reintroduce Coke Classic and cut your losses. Same with Hoop Men; get enough chapters for two volumes, cancel it, and introduce something that might get a positive reaction. And of course, you concentrate time, effort, and money on product that theirs demand for.


I think you're taking what I said about Hoop in another post way too seriously. Fine, let's ignore Hoop. But what about stuff like Psyren, Sket and Mago (i.e. NOT rejected by fans, but still receiving far less attention than they should)? It's okay to not want to bet on something that had no chance from the start, but they could make the middle tier series sell even more if they put some effort into advertising them.

How many times will I have to repeat the word "fair distribution" here? I don't want Hoop to become the new spotlight in Jump, nor do I want them to pretend Beelze doesn't exist. I want stuff that still holds a chance to be invested on at least a little (because right now the investment in Psy/Sket/Mago, as far as covers and CPs go, is ZERO).



BTW: Jump does not have two huge hits. 15 series, not counting the upcoming volumes of Eyeshield, are hits when compared to the sales of series from any other magazine. Considering the least popular series sell as much as the middle tier of Sunday or Magazine, that's a pretty loaded roster.

When I said "two huge hits", I was talking only about the newcomers, that is, Kuroko and Beelze. Psyren, Sket and Mago are hits, but they are not - and will never be - as huge as Jump expects Beelze and Kuroko to become (keyword: expects). Not as long as things stay the way they are now, anyway.

M-Hario
June 15, 2009, 07:51 AM
http://www.monsterup.com/upload/124505273963.jpg (http://www.monsterup.com)[

Lol wut? Bleach above than Naruto in sales? That's new.

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 07:57 AM
Lol wut? Bleach above than Naruto in sales? That's new.

The thing is that, it's the 6 month tally of "all the tanks for a series". And it just so happens that Bleach had one more tank volume than Naruto... (3 vs 2) :p

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 11:20 AM
Full Top 50/Lots of Jump

http://www.monsterup.com/upload/1245052739936.jpghttp://www.monsterup.com/upload/1245052781812.jpg

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 12:29 PM
I'd say the majority of it is Shueisha :p
Square Enix is mainly just FMA and Soul Eater = ="
Poor Hakusensha... I can count series from you guys on the list in one hand :'(

◆ T.D.A ◆
June 15, 2009, 12:43 PM
Are these figure really accurate? I heard they aren't 100% accurate, but I guess it'll be close enough.

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 12:50 PM
I'd say the majority of it is Shueisha :p
Square Enix is mainly just FMA and Soul Eater = ="
Poor Hakusensha... I can count series from you guys on the list in one hand :'(

What about Kuroshitsuji? I bet every volume they release in '09 will be a best seller by year end. Hakusensha has no excuse :P Only three titles. Didn't Berserk have a volume out during this period? Or did Japan finally give up on it? 1st Day did pretty well, that's good. Margaret Comics didn't, not happy :(


Are these figure really accurate? I heard they aren't 100% accurate, but I guess it'll be close enough.

There the most accurate numbers anyone in or out of Japan will see. Remember that some series have volumes included that came out right before the tracking period or during the last months. Those volumes will look to low. Naruto 44 and 46 for instance. Volume 45's sales is Naruto's average.

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 01:22 PM
What about Kuroshitsuji? I bet every volume they release in '09 will be a best seller by year end. Hakusensha has no excuse :P Only three titles. Didn't Berserk have a volume out during this period? Or did Japan finally give up on it? 1st Day did pretty well, that's good. Margaret Comics didn't, not happy :(


lol, Berserk 33 was in October '08, so it wasn't included here ;)

Now that you brought it up about Margaret Comics... I did notice that the only one up there was Mei-chan, and even that wasn't so high. Kind of ironic that Betsu-Margaret series had much better success than Margaret series... (at least for that half of year).

Same goes with Hana to Yume Comics... Ouran is on LaLa while Glass no Kamen is (now) on Betsu-Hana... :p Nothing on HY got on the top 50.

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 01:36 PM
Betsuma didn't do so well either. Two series, only one ongoing. I'm disappointed Natsume didn't make the list. Probably just missed too. Weird that for how many good series are in it HanaYume completely missed. ShoComi and BetsuComi too.

Switching back to Jump, temporarily, could anyone look at this list and still worry about Bakuman? Both volumes in the top 50, ahead of some very famous manga.

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yep... Bakuman, regardless whether it's just crazy fans obsess with the author duo, or people geniunely like it, is extremly high in sales. Seriously, do you see any newer weekly series with number even close to Bakuman?

I don't think we should even need to worry about the ToC for Bakuman at all any more... :p

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 02:54 PM
Yep... Bakuman, regardless whether it's just crazy fans obsess with the author duo, or people geniunely like it, is extremly high in sales. Seriously, do you see any newer weekly series with number even close to Bakuman?

I don't think we should even need to worry about the ToC for Bakuman at all any more... :p

Wow! I really can't think of a single weekly series, shonen or seinen, Jump or not, to debut in the last two years that's as popular as Bakuman. A monthly and bi - weekly come to mind, but nothing else.

Josl
June 15, 2009, 02:56 PM
just something I want to point out:

Bleach36: 927 610
Bleach37: 907 714
Bleach38: 822 238

Sales are decreasing

Naruto45: 1 131 145
Naruto46: 864 708

Sales are devreasing too

One Piece52:1 778 239
One Piece53:1 801 877

Sales are increasing

So there is some kind of justice there

pandaaqueen
June 15, 2009, 03:11 PM
No. The more recent volumes are logically not as much in circulation as the ones before due to their release date. =D

Imitorar
June 15, 2009, 03:12 PM
Every time I see a sales ranking for manga, I have two primary feelings. One is exultation that One Piece does so well. I know it shouldn't matter, but I can't help it, especially because of One Piece's always managing to get screwed in America. And the second feeling is "how long can this last?" How long can One Piece go on and still stay on top? Could it actually manage to stay as the most popular manga in Japan until it ends about a decade from now? Or will there be a breaking point? Will sales start to fall simply because they can't rise anymore? And does it honestly matter, since one way or another, Shueisha will let the series keep going until Oda finishes his story? (I mean, they still keep Kochikame around.)

Also, I find Bleach beating Naruto kind of weird. I know that Bleach had one more volume come out during that time than Naruto, but Naruto's old volumes should have been enough to make up for that. The numbers were close, which is what really shocked me. I always thought that Naruto was in a higher league than Bleach, but in a lower league than One Piece. I mean, a new Naruto volume can sell a million copies in a month. A new One Piece volume can sell a million copies in a week, whereas I don't think I've ever seen a new Bleach volume sell a million copies in the first month. I'm shocked that the sales were so even.

nassass
June 15, 2009, 03:15 PM
So there is some kind of justice there

I think the earlyer volume sell longer period. And in this case One Pice is the crazy. What is in volume 53? :D

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 03:42 PM
just something I want to point out:

Bleach36: 927 610
Bleach37: 907 714
Bleach38: 822 238

Sales are decreasing

Naruto45: 1 131 145
Naruto46: 864 708

Sales are devreasing too


No there not. Not even close actually. Naruto is one of only five manga to average over a million volumes per copy. Volume 44 and 46 of Naruto were not fully covered by this tracking period (11/17/08 - 5/17/09). Volume 46 was released the first week of May, 864,708 was two week totals. As of last week, the most recent Oricon chart, it was ranked 29 with 951,324 copies sold. It will break a million next week. Naruto 44 was released November 4, two weeks before the tracking period for the top 50 began. It sold 812,612 copies in those two weeks.

Bleach's average sales per volume are up this year. Three volumes of Bleach were released between 11/17/2007 and 11/16/2008; volume 33 - 35. Volume 34 was the best seller at 874,153 copies. Volume 33 sold 802,692, 34 sold 761,802.

btw: Bleach is higher in the top ten for total sales then Naruto as only one volume of Naruto was fully covered by the tracking period, while three volumes of Bleach were fully tracked. Naruto still sells more despite Bleach pushing a million copies for two out of three volumes. FMA also outsells Bleach, but only had one volume released during this period. Bloody Monday and Mei - chan made the top ten because recent TV drama pushed sales of back volumes. 20th Century Boys continues to get a boost from the movies, as new fans go back and explore the series, which ended with 24 volumes in 2007.

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 15, 2009, 03:52 PM
Wow! I really can't think of a single weekly series, shonen or seinen, Jump or not, to debut in the last two years that's as popular as Bakuman. A monthly and bi - weekly come to mind, but nothing else.


Mind sharing what these are?

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 04:08 PM
Mind sharing what these are?

Sorry ^^ I was referring to St. Oniisan from Morning2 (monthly) and 3Gatsu no Lion from Young Animal (bi - weekly). Both outsell Bakuman, but they both debuted in 2007 and have a head start. Those 3 are the only series to debut in 2007 or after on the list. Bakuman is the only series from 2008 to make the top 50. Volume 3, at 200,000 copies after a week, will knock a more established series off when the top 50 for all of 2009 comes out.

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 04:28 PM
Wow! I really can't think of a single weekly series, shonen or seinen, Jump or not, to debut in the last two years that's as popular as Bakuman. A monthly and bi - weekly come to mind, but nothing else.

Everything I can think of are 3 years old >_<"
Kuroshitsuji, Otomen, Kimitodo (lol... all the more "girly series" :p)

Kaiten is probably talking about Saint Young Man... (maybe?) Which made the list as well.

[hr]

lol, just saw your reply :p
I can't believe I forgot about March Lion... XDDDDD

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 05:01 PM
Everything I can think of are 3 years old >_<"
Kuroshitsuji, Otomen, Kimitodo (lol... all the more "girly series" :p)

Kaiten is probably talking about Saint Young Man... (maybe?) Which made the list as well.

<hr noshade size="1">

lol, just saw your reply :p
I can't believe I forgot about March Lion... XDDDDD

I'm a Chika fanboy, I couldn't miss it ;)

Kuroshitsuji is just a bit older then my cut off. There are a number of series from 2006 on the list, just nothing from Jump. Same with Kimitodo (a favorite of mine, despite translations stalling!)

Finestela
June 15, 2009, 07:09 PM
I'm still a bit puzzled, though, by Saint Young Man's success... I mean I like the series (a lot), and followed it almost since it started (the magazine scanner seem to like it as well)... but still, I wouldn't really make it out to be a high sales hit like it is now.

Back to WSJ, Hoop's current situation feels really wierd... Story wise, I just don't see it ending anytime soon. Tank chapter # wise, it's already at the Vol. 2 cutting point. It seems to me that they're going to give it another 10 weeks for Vol. 3.

Are we really seeing some compassion from the editors? Is Hoop being given a chance? O_o"

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 07:31 PM
One would think Hoop will end in the next two to three issues. Eyeshield has to be replaced, I can't comprehend the idea of just adding one new series. Besides, mercy or no, why let it limp along when it's been last practically since debuting.

St. Young Men is a great series. When I friends who don't like manga what it's about every one says "I've gotta see that". I imagine the same reaction in Japan. I presume Morning2 is low circulation, I can picture SYM having ten times as many readers.

Koshi_Inaba
June 15, 2009, 07:32 PM
So, the previous rumor was fake?

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 07:33 PM
So, the previous rumor was fake?

What previous rumor?

Koshi_Inaba
June 15, 2009, 07:36 PM
about Mago being canceled. I agree with Finestela about Hoop Men not ending anytime soon. I don't think it'll get canceled in issue 31, 33 or 34 maybe.

Kaiten
June 15, 2009, 07:49 PM
Don't worry about Mago getting canceled. It sells to well. The only series currently in danger of ending is Hoop.

Dofla
June 16, 2009, 11:26 AM
Toriko will be absent next week, Jump #31 (06/29).

Rejuvenation
June 16, 2009, 11:47 AM
No Toriko makes me sad. Although the arc is ending so I guess the extra time may be needed for research or recovering. =/

Finestela
June 16, 2009, 12:08 PM
What source is that from? Not that I'm doubting it, but I haven't seen anything being said at 2ch in related threads.

kewl0210
June 16, 2009, 01:06 PM
Didn't say it at the end of last issue either.

Finestela
June 16, 2009, 01:49 PM
Didn't say it at the end of last issue either.

It wouldn't :)
Dofla is talking about Issue 31 ^^ So it would be written at the end of Chapter 54 that'll be out this week.

I'm just curious since Dofla and Heiji's usual source for Sunday/Monday WSJ spoilers is Ko-neta from 2ch as well, and he didn't say anything about it. The Tuesday spoiler poster Nja (for Bleach and Naruto) didn't mention it either.

kewl0210
June 16, 2009, 03:08 PM
Oh, I see.
Ok, going to check it is written in this week's spoilers (for Toriko) at the end.

Finestela
June 16, 2009, 03:21 PM
Oh, I see.
Ok, going to check it is written in this week's spoilers (for Toriko) at the end.

Yeah... found it... it's in the Toriko spoiler thread, at the end of the "last" "detailed spoiler" (though, again, no way to confirm if it's real or not :p)

We should know for sure when Himajin posts the ToC and OP/TLR spoilers :p

Sexy Randal 105
June 16, 2009, 11:53 PM
Hmmm...the author needs a week off to think up new ideas maybe?

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 01:13 AM
Hmmm...the author needs a week off to think up new ideas maybe?

That's what the annonymous spoiler poster for Toriko said ;)
We should know in a few hours :)

[hr]


ToC is out, brought to you by Himajin of 2ch :)



79 :五代目暇人 ◆2YGyF6T8YE :2009/06/17(水) 15:07:42 ID:GneSjJdb0
30号

わんぴ(表紙+巻頭)
ぬるぽ

バクマン
べるぜ
犬まる

ULT(めんどい  読みきりセンター
りぼん
めだか
赤星
こちカメ
金玉(センター)
サイレン
ぬるり
スケット
クロコ
とらぶる
フープ
ジャガー



2009-30

One Piece (Cover +CP)
Naruto
Toriko
Bakuman
Beelze
Inumaru
Bleach (ROFL)
One-shot (CP)
Reborn
Medaka
Akaboshi
Kochikame
Gintama (CP)
Psyren
Mago
Sket Dance
Kuroko
ToLoveRu
Hoopman
Jaguar

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 01:23 AM
Had to look twice before I believed it was real. It's been a long time since Bleach was out of the top five. I remember a couple of times in '07, but, wow.....

Good for the series I like! Toriko, Beelze, and Bakuman in the top five! If only One Piece didn't have color Inumaru would have been pushed out ;)

Dofla
June 17, 2009, 01:26 AM
That's what the annonymous spoiler poster for Toriko said ;)
We should know in a few hours :)


I don't know if you just asked him (Himajin), but he said it was real.
I usually don't post things i'm not sure about but well :)

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 01:27 AM
BTW, Himajin answered my question! OMG! *screams like a little girl*




140 :五代目暇人 ◆2YGyF6T8YE :2009/06/17(水) 15:23:25 ID:GneSjJdb0
>>131
ホント

14枚目はおまけです
可愛いかったから撮っただけですw



So yes, the last detailed spoiler at Toriko's spoiler thread is indeed the real deal... and Toriko will be absent the next issue :)

predsfan
June 17, 2009, 01:38 AM
Seriously, Bakuman at 3? I don't understand the love for this series. Do people just enjoy getting the insider info on how SJ works, because other than that the story is really bland, imo.

Man, I have the worst luck. I could care less if Bakuman get's cancelled, but I enjoy Hoopmen :darn. Come on get up Hoop [yes, I know it's useless, but I'll continue to pray Volume 01 sells 500,000 copies before it get's cancelled(yes, I know impossible as well, but a man can dream :p)]

Rejuvenation
June 17, 2009, 01:42 AM
2009-30

One Piece (Cover +CP)
Naruto
Toriko
Bakuman
Beelze
Inumaru
Bleach (ROFL)
One-shot (CP)
Reborn
Medaka
Akaboshi
Kochikame
Gintama (CP)
Psyren
Mago
Sket Dance
Kuroko
ToLoveRu
Hoopman
Jaguar

Toriko @ Number 2 and Bleach being out of the top 5! *throws confetti* :tem

Now if only Bleach would continue to fall. /evil hopes

Bakuman made quite the jump compared to last week. Number 3 is extremely good.

Reborn at 7 and Medaka at 8 is pleasing. Just one more week for its official rankings to start.

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 01:44 AM
Seriously, Bakuman at 3? I don't understand the love for this series. Do people just enjoy getting the insider info on how SJ works, because other than that the story is really bland, imo.

See I like Bakuman. A manga about making manga that's as intense as an action series? Yes, please!! I've been at the edge of my seat wondering inane things like "how will they do in the Golden Future Cup", "will they get serialized", "can they get there early returns up", "why do they still have that sub plot about the girl he won't talk to anyway". While I'm not trying to change your mind, your entitled, I just thought a rebuttal from a fan might be nice ;)

Right now my ideal top 5 would be:

One Piece
Naruto
Psyren
Bakuman
Beelzebub

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 01:54 AM
I think this shows that it's pretty much anything goes with stuff that's below Naruto at the moment...
Fluidity is always good in my opinion. :)

kewl0210
June 17, 2009, 01:57 AM
Inumaru is beating Bleach?......................

Well Bleach is particularly low for whatever reason.
Toriko is back to its old spot right after Naruto.
Bakuman is doing fanzy yo-yo tricks... it was in the bottom five last week, right? Maybe this reflects the "serialization get" chapter. Yeah, it should, that's 8 issues before this one.
Beelzebub continues to show real promise.

Rest is normal. Perhaps both Medaka and Akaboshi will survive? Akaboshi seems really good to me as long as it delivers on the depth it seems to have and isn't just "tons of meaingless exposition, then fight". Medaka I haven't seen but they look like they're doing the same. The position, even when unranked, gives somewhat of an idea of how it'll do. Based on the Bakuman chapter from last week anyway, though it varies. Neither are low enough to look like they'll get cancelled at this point. Not right away anyway.

Gintama which as been going around has a color page again, so it can't be doing that badly.
Damn, Binktopia is two weeks behind, I hope bomber didn't make a mistake of letting them be the only one to use his translations... It's too troublesome to read through the whole translations with the raws...

Also that thing I posted a couple weeks ago saying stuff would be canceled was fake, since it would've said Hoopmen would be canceled in this issue, and it's not.

predsfan
June 17, 2009, 01:58 AM
See I like Bakuman. A manga about making manga that's as intense as an action series? Yes, please!! I've been at the edge of my seat wondering inane things like "how will they do in the Golden Future Cup", "will they get serialized", "can they get there early returns up", "why do they still have that sub plot about the girl he won't talk to anyway". While I'm not trying to change your mind, your entitled, I just thought a rebuttal from a fan might be nice ;)

That stuff, I don't really mind, you know it's somewhat entertaining, but not really my cup of tea. But the whole plot line b/w the main character and the VA bores me to death. And the fat guy and the beautiful mangaka storyline. I can't even remember their names :p. The drama they try to create just doesn't do it for me. Those plots seem kind of cliche to me.


Right now my ideal top 5 would be:

One Piece
Naruto
Psyren
Bakuman
Beelzebub

Agh, it appears we have somewhat different taste in mangas, which might explain something :p.

My ideal top 5 would be something like:

One Piece
Mago
Hoopmen
Bleach (yes, I still enjoy Bleach, I'm probably in the vast minority on this site :tem)
Naruto

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 02:06 AM
Here's mine:
Beelze
Gintama
Bakuman
ToLoveRu
Psyren

And no, I'm not a huge fan of the OP/Naruto/Bleach triumvirate. :p I still read them, but not like fanatically into it as some fans ;)

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 02:12 AM
I gave up on Bleach during the Ulquiorra fight. I still read but I can't defend it anymore. I'm a big Mago fan, I'd put it at number 6 or 7. Toriko would be pretty close to the top as well. At least till D. Gray Man returns.

kewl0210
June 17, 2009, 02:15 AM
Mine's something like:

Jaguar
Bleach
Inumaru Dashi
Psyren
Hoopmen

No, I'm kidding... Those mangas are all total crap really... And I translate one.
Really I'm fine with what it is. Beelzebub hasn't gone on long enough to say it's a top-five series. But it looks like it could be really good. Though it isn't very deep at this point.
Bleach is still plenty fine but some of the side stories are kinda-okay. The Ulquorria fight I thought was cool but kinda lacked anything to make it unique beyond a shonen power-up thing...

Oh, and Psyren is good sometimes. And I think Inumaru Dashi gets better later on. But nobody scanned it this week so I'm not gonna rush to try and translate it or anything. Plus it has lots of references and weird.... word... things.

Hoopmen is not good...

Rejuvenation
June 17, 2009, 02:17 AM
Are we doing top 5s now?

One Piece
Toriko
Psyren
Sket
#5 is a toss up between Beelzebub/Reborn/Bakuman atm

Need to give Medaka some more time.

I haven't considered Naruto or Bleach for my Top 5 in years. >.>

predsfan
June 17, 2009, 02:22 AM
The only reason I have Bleach and Naruto so high, is because when I actually sat down and looked at it, I am only up to date on 9 series (Akaboshi, Bakuman, Beelze, Bleach, Hoop, Kuroko, Mago, Naruto, and One Piece in case you're wondering, though, you're probably not) and I only really like 7 of them. I've been meaning to catch up on Toriko, but I'm too lazy to try and figure out which chapter I ended at.

hills100
June 17, 2009, 02:34 AM
so is naruto going to get CP+cover next issue like OP got in this issue?

Rejuvenation
June 17, 2009, 02:43 AM
so is naruto going to get CP+cover next issue like OP got in this issue?

Yes, it will unless something changes. Which I doubt.

kewl0210
June 17, 2009, 02:48 AM
Just tell me what part of the story you were in Toriko and I'll tell you the chapter number. I know em all...
Because I translated basically all of em...

And everyone who hasn't read Toriko should.

I've already said everything else...

predsfan
June 17, 2009, 02:54 AM
The last chapter of Toriko I read was the the end of the fight with the wolf and the robo thing. I didn't stop reading intentionally, I just forgot about it, and before I knew it, It was like 20-30 chapters later.

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 03:05 AM
Toriko's a lot of fun. Catch back up. It still has that pre - Arlong Park OP feel, but has almost limitless potential within the tournament manga genre.

VASSiLi
June 17, 2009, 04:01 AM
ohoh bakuman in top 3! that's really good! btw, my top five is:

One Piece
BakuMan
Naruto
Akaboshi
Bleach

Dofla
June 17, 2009, 04:13 AM
Early Magazines F.A.Q.

Who are the people who post spoilers at 2ch?

First of all they are japanese.
They live in Japan and most of them are normal people.
By normal, i mean Junior highschooler, university students, salary men etc

Are they Jump insiders?

No, would you do that if you were one? Risking to be fired for that? I guess no.
But, from time a time, some of them post "spoilers" concerning Toc's (Rankings, New Series ...) before anyone can get the jump.
But i still can't clearly define "ko-neta" (named like that by Finestela)
He provides information on sundays but he seems not to have the jump in his hands (i can prove it but it would too long), some hints can be found
Here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1047485#post1047485)

How come they can get the jump one week before the release date, for some of them?

They get their copy earlier than they should.
Most of the industries in japan work in "just-in-time distribution" which mean that they immediatly ship merchandises after they were produced, to not pay stock taxes.
So they ship the fixes fastly that's how bookstores etc get them on monday/tuesday etc ( i don't how they manage the priority between stores) and are supposed to sell them only the next monday.
But some of them don't respect that and sell them to people they trust.

See here how one of them had problems by doing so in this article (Japanese) (http://buzzurl.jp/entry/http://www.asahi.com/kansai/news/OSK200705180083.html)

But How american/chinese (taiwanese) and citizens of others countries get them early too (on friday)?

Because magazines are sent to foreighn stores at the same time it's sent to japanese's but they have shipping delay.

Added to the first post.

Mr. Prince
June 17, 2009, 05:35 AM
Wow, this week's sorta refreshing to some point...I'm quite amazed by the no pants kids sticking together and keep on rocking the ToC.

Personal top 5:
One Piece
PTF! Jaguar
Toriko
Hoopmen
Bakuman/Gintama

Koshi_Inaba
June 17, 2009, 05:48 AM
My personal top 5:
One Piece
Bleach
Mago
Reborn
Naruto
A little generic, I know. I just have a particular liking to battle manga and fight scene. This week ToC make me glad and sad at the same time. Glad because Bakuman and Gintama rise but sad because of Mago dropping.Shibashi sensei really need to end the flashback quick and start the big arc.

SSJWill4
June 17, 2009, 05:57 AM
Couldn't resist >_<

Hunter X Hunter
One Piece
Gintama
Bakuman
Beelzebub
(bottom 3 VERY subject to change)

Now to attempt to try and stay on topic...I'm really looking forward to the next few issues for Medaka Box and Akaboshi's first rankings as well as the new influx of series that I'm assuming will be coming soon. Now if only HxH and D. Grey-man will be among them...

Koen
June 17, 2009, 05:57 AM
my ideal top 5 would be:

- one piece
- psyren
- beelzebub
- mago
- toriko (close with bakuman: depends from chapt to chap with last one)

andrewsungchehau
June 17, 2009, 06:53 AM
My personal top 5:
As long as D Gray Man is in the top 5, I wouldn't mind the others ranking.

Apollo
June 17, 2009, 07:34 AM
Is this the TOC for akaboshi's 7th chapter or already the real ranking? I'm really interested in seeing it's and medaka's real rankings.

Oh my top 5 at the moment:
One Piece
Psyren
Bakuman
To Love-ru (yes, indeed)
Medaka Box

Estranho
June 17, 2009, 07:39 AM
No, Akaboshi wasn't ranked yet

StrangerAtaru
June 17, 2009, 08:06 AM
Personally I really wish this was the beginning of the end for Bleach...but as of late, the fans want only the super-long, super-boring, super-annoying fights with fan-bait (Ichigo, Shrimpo, Kira, Hisagi, etc) I wish it would start collapsing but it's just a blip.

Interesting TOC but rather top-heavy considering stuff like Medaka & Akaboshi are preventing Psyren/Mago/Sket from moving higher.

As for my top five Jump currently (not counting ES21 since it's over):
-OP
-Gintama
-Um...I still read To-Love for the lulz and Bleach and Naruto are "so horrible it's hilarious".
-...and that's about it aside from the older series I've been TLing. (Wingman, Otokojuku)

Negative Syndicate
June 17, 2009, 09:08 AM
So, Beelzebub gets colour page in two issue in a row. I am happy about Beelzebub gets colour because it is one of my favorite series, but Jump should give colour page to other series like Psyren and Mago because Beelzebub already doing very well in the ranking, so I don't mind to get a colour page, but not two issue in the row.

In the quick question, is there also other series that had gotten colour page in two issue in the row, or is Beelzebub the first one?

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 09:14 AM
Bleach got two in a row during the Soul Society arc. Chapter 150 - 151, when Ichigo rescues Rukia. Can't think of any others personally.

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 09:17 AM
I'm glad to see someone understanding the true value of TLR...
You read it for the lulz! :D:D:D

Two more weeks and Akaboshi and Medaka would be moving with everyone else. I really do wish that everything would just sort of yo-yo from weeks to weeks, and nothing would get cut.

As for Hoop, I do wish that the editors are indeed giving it another 9~10 weeks for Vol. 03. Ending it next week would just... be really wierd in terms of current story. I just don't see the story giving any indication to end right now. >_<"

Galactic Tomahawk
June 17, 2009, 09:18 AM
Yay list topic.

Personal top 5:
One Piece
Hunter x Hunter
Beelzebub
Nurarihyon no Mago
Gintama

I'm vaguely recalling this happening at least once or twice before with other series', but nothing specific is coming to mind.

Edit: Galactic Slowahawk

Negative Syndicate
June 17, 2009, 09:22 AM
My personal top 5:

None

The reason is I think currently Jump has a strongest line-up ever ( in my opinion). I enjoy every series in Jump right now, even Hoopmen is actually getting better lightly. Therefore, it is difficult for me to choose five series.

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 09:28 AM
My personal top 5:

None

The reason is I think currently Jump has a strongest line-up ever ( in my opinion). I enjoy every series in Jump right now, even Hoopmen is actually getting better lightly. Therefore, it is difficult for me to choose five series.

Awww... comeon... as much as I agree with you on this statement, you gotta have some special favorites that you'd really love to see in the top 5! :D:D

Regarding Hoop, I personally think other than the first 3~4 chapters, everything after that came along nicely, and enjoyable to read. The only beef I had with the first few chapters is that the rhythm felt kinda wierd...

Kaiten
June 17, 2009, 09:31 AM
Regarding Hoop, I personally think other than the first 3~4 chapters, everything after that came along nicely, and enjoyable to read. The only beef I had with the first few chapters is that the rhythm felt kinda wierd...

It's hard to get into a series you know will end >.< Weather at 20 or 30 chapters it's been pretty clear. Not to pass judgment on Hoop, I just don't need to get attached to another canceled series. Dogashi and DA were enough.

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 09:35 AM
It's hard to get into a series you know will end >.< Weather at 20 or 30 chapters it's been pretty clear. Not to pass judgment on Hoop, I just don't need to get attached to another canceled series. Dogashi and DA were enough.

After a while, you'd be numb and wouldn't feel the pain anymore :p
Speaking of Dogashi, the impression that Hoop gives me is the complete opposite of Dogashi. Dogashi had a good and fun beginning, but then became "WTF is this". Hoop, on the other hand, went from "Erm... I don't get it..." to "LOL! This is fun!" :D:D

Negative Syndicate
June 17, 2009, 09:40 AM
In change of the subject, is Hetappi Manga Kenkyuujo R is popular? And is it will get a tankouban release or not?

Elyon A. Luna
June 17, 2009, 09:59 AM
Between Mago and Bakuman, if one of the two series was risking cancellation, I'd pick Bakuman. Sure is good to read, but OxO could very well come back with a different story we may enjoy, whilst I don't want Mago's story to get cut in half.

Hmm, wondering.... ¿Has some series aside from Shaman King gotten axed when deeply into the story?

My Top 5

One Piece
Bakuman
Mago
Naruto-Bleach (just because I don't really read anything else from Jump atm)

kewl0210
June 17, 2009, 10:50 AM
By the way, predsfan was at chapter 29 or 30 of Toriko.

Everyone who DIDN'T have Toriko on their top five list... well...

Negative Syndicate
June 17, 2009, 10:56 AM
I was wondering, why Beelzebub is not getting an another cover. When Beelzebub started to get ranked, it almost always on top 5. Toriko got their second cover on around chapter 12 or 13, why not Beelzebub?

DeidaraGrimmjow
June 17, 2009, 10:56 AM
Personal top 7 (Sorry but it is impossible to choose 5)

1. Bleach
2. Naruto (Switches with Bleach Occasionally)
3. One Piece
4. Psyren
5. Reborn (Especially after the latest chapter)
6. Bakuman
7. Akaboshi

And I know I'm about to get ganged up on, but this is a question of all those who hate Bleach:
Just because you don't like it, why does it need to be cancelled? Would you really take so much joy in the pain of others?

Elyon A. Luna
June 17, 2009, 11:06 AM
Personal top 7 (Sorry but it is impossible to choose 5)

1. Bleach
2. Naruto (Switches with Bleach Occasionally)
3. One Piece
4. Psyren
5. Reborn (Especially after the latest chapter)
6. Bakuman
7. Akaboshi

And I know I'm about to get ganged up on, but this is a question of all those who hate Bleach:
Just because you don't like it, why does it need to be cancelled? Would you really take so much joy in the pain of others?

Bleach doesn't need to be cancelled, in fact I would hate for it to be cancelled and Kubo not being able to take his crappy. Sorry, but he simply has lost the edge of a good storyteller story until the end. I very much prefer to read series I'm following until the straight end. Why, Asklepios, why?!.

It will end of its own accord in the next year or 2011 probably.

Digital_Eon
June 17, 2009, 11:14 AM
Ooh, a personal... poll thingy.

I'm not really a fan of One Piece (though I've only read until volume 20-something - I'm reading it at the North American release pace), but I'd put that first simply because I recognize how good others find it to be. I don't think it's a bad story; it just doesn't do anything for me. But I don't want to alienate everyone else!

Naruto at #2, I guess. Again, far behind, but it wasn't that bad. Besides, I'm hoping this ToC will be real one day... hopefully...

D.Gray-Man at #3, because I love it.

Gintama at #4. Very good series.

And maybe... Mago to round out the bottom five.

Toriko's not up there because I've never read it. =P

This week's ToC seems to be quite normal, unlike last week's. Everything's in fairly normal positions (Bleach has been out of the top 5 before, right?). If Medaka and Akaboshi currently hold "ranked" positions (not officially ranked, but accurate to the snap polls or whatever), does it seem like they might become midrank series like... well, Sket and Psyren? Neither are being pimped like Kuroko and Beelzebub were/are, but they haven't plummeted...

Rejuvenation
June 17, 2009, 11:16 AM
^Medaka's real ranking starts next week.




And I know I'm about to get ganged up on, but this is a question of all those who hate Bleach:
Just because you don't like it, why does it need to be cancelled? Would you really take so much joy in the pain of others?

Not so much the pain of others but the pain of Kubo. The pain of others is just an inevitable side effect. A series that falls this hard in quality in almost all aspects does not deserve to live let alone keep its absurdly high ranking/sales.

I can't even name 5 redeeming qualities for current Bleach.

I may hate Part 2 Naruto overall but Kishimoto at least tries to tell a story with a plot. (Even if said storytelling abilities have become crap in Part 2) Kubo, I can not say the same for. /personal hatred

Symbolic Zero
June 17, 2009, 11:19 AM
My personal top 5:
As long as D Gray Man is in the top 5, I wouldn't mind the others ranking.

Same as you :clap XD

eni
June 17, 2009, 11:31 AM
And I know I'm about to get ganged up on, but this is a question of all those who hate Bleach:
Just because you don't like it, why does it need to be cancelled? Would you really take so much joy in the pain of others?
It's not so much hate but disappointment.

As a longtime Bleach reader (I started reading Naruto regularly 6 years ago and Bleach somewhat after), I'm just very sad about the development of the series. I really loved the part up till Soul Society and liked a lot of what followed but ever since they're entered Hueco Mundo the manga is dragging like hell.

Kubo has built up a fantastic cast but he wastes it in uber-long battle arcs. The fights all have the same structure and the characters don't get any development aside from power ups. Boring.

I'd love to see more actual character interaction outside of battles. Less long battles (how long are they fighting the Espada now? 2-3 years? >.>) and more, shorter story arcs. I want to see the forgotton characters again too :/

I don't wish for Bleach to get canceled but the story lost my interest so much that I wouldn't care at this point. Which is a real shame since I do consider myself a Bleach fangirl originally but that doesn't mean that I have to like every bad development... or better... non-existent development :(

Finestela
June 17, 2009, 11:40 AM
Bleach is usually much more enjoyable (to some extend) when you read it in tank format as oppose to following it weekly.

Though I've mentioned several times already... but I actually quit reading in the middle of SS arc (the Kenpachi fight I believe) because I couldn't bear to follow it at that pace. I just followed the rest in tanks and didn't pick it up again until after they left SS :p

eni
June 17, 2009, 11:58 AM
Bleach always was a manga that was better readable in a batch but the past two years are just extreme. It's like bubblegum >.<

Negative Syndicate
June 17, 2009, 12:04 PM
I think Bleach is better read the tankoubans than weekly chapters. With match against Leaders and Espada, it is following same plot pattern, like Espada has upper hand, then Leaders use their Bankai or secret weapon to defeat Espada.

I think Kubo should end Leaders vs. Espada arc, and bring Vizards into fight against Aizen.

Elyon A. Luna
June 17, 2009, 12:26 PM
I think that Bleach would have been great stuff if Kubo had managed what he had in the beginning which was very different of the standard manga, and instead of turning it into a standard fight manga, develop an interesting shinigami story.

Naruto part 1 was a good thing. Part 2 has had a serious disbalance, specially in the Akatsuki part.

Seriously, Akatsuki and Espada are the most defrauding characters I've ever seen.

Crude
June 17, 2009, 01:15 PM
Something seemed to have happened with Naruto's pace in part 2. Way too many chapters for the first three arcs, although the pacing suddenly got a lot better after Hidan & Kakuzu.

SameOld
June 17, 2009, 02:38 PM
Going back to the personal poll thing... no love for Kuroko? Anyway, here's mine:

Akaboshi
Medaka Box
Hoop Men
Kuroko no Basket
Psyren

Psyren was first until not long ago, but the last few chapters have seriously annoyed me. So far it has been generic but so nicely done I didn't even mind its generic-ness... but now the execution is going down the drain.

Medaka and Akaboshi have caused such a good first impression on me I just can't help but give them the first two spots in my current top five. Hoop Men is great for slice of life manga fans (now if the actual basketball parts weren't so weak...); Kuroko is the exact opposite, which isn't a bad thing per se, and the great art and concept make up for the lack of any characterization whatsoever (just don't ask me until when I'll be able to stand it).

Bakuman, One Piece, D.Gray-Man, Gintama and Sket are all "very good" in my book, but not good enough I consider myself a "fan" of them. Beelzebub and Toriko are tolerable. Naruto, Bleach, Mago, Inumaru and Reborn are garbage.

(It's worth mentioning that Bleach, at one point, was my favorite Jump series. Now I can barely stand to read the current chapters. "The Heart" almost made me kill myself.)

Sexy Randal 105
June 17, 2009, 03:53 PM
I think Psyren and Bleach should just merge. Bleach's battle are too long and Psyren's are too short.

Jabberwocky
June 17, 2009, 04:51 PM
Kuroko no Basket in the bottom, again.
A sign that it is losing readers or just a case of two terrible chapters in a row?

Maxy Barnard
June 17, 2009, 05:03 PM
I call it a case of people realising it's not actually that good. but that's just my opinion

[Cross]
June 17, 2009, 05:09 PM
I wonder if Kuroko will gain any colour pages regardless of it's sudden low position, though if Kuroko does "bomb" (not saying it did yet...) then what does it do for Jump's credibility for these colour pages.

tygreas
June 17, 2009, 05:17 PM
my top 5:

one piece
psyren
bakuman
beelzebub
reborn
supplemental list of likes in wsj
d.gray man, bleach, naruto, mago, sket dance.

i haven't read the others, yet, it's only a matter of time before i do though to fully understand what is staying and going. Bakuman is the sole reason i am in this thread like a religion. always checking on it.

Crude
June 17, 2009, 05:41 PM
Personal TOC:

One Piece (number 1 since the latest arc has been so epic)
Naruto (my favourite manga, although there are some bad points in it)
Sket Dance (I love both the humour and seriousness in it)
Psyren (Has gotten a lot better after the Dholaki arc)
Reborn! (If it hadn't redeemed itself in the latest chapters, it wouldn't be here. Plus, I love the pacing and how it makes me anxious for the next chapter)

Reasons as to why the other series aren't in the top 5:

Gintama: Hilarious, but haven't read/watched it in a while.
D. Gray-Man: Chapters are too short and it's on hiatus.
Bleach: Need I explain. Although it's getting better with the Espada fights.
Bakuman: Nearly at the top 5, but something's been bugging me about the latest chapters.
Akaboshi/Medaka Box: Still new.
Beelzebub: Hasn't fulfilled it's potential yet.
Kuroko: I Don't read it.
Hoop Men: Good, yet sketchy art. Not that many memorable characters.
Toriko: Haven't read enough of it yet.
Hunter x Hunter: Hiatus
Mago:I'm liking the Onmiouji arc, though this flashback isn't all that special.
Jaguar: I Don't read it.
Kochikame: I Don't read it.
Inumaru: I Don't read it.

SameOld
June 17, 2009, 05:43 PM
i haven't read the others, yet, it's only a matter of time before i do though to fully understand what is staying and going. Bakuman is the sole reason i am in this thread like a religion. always checking on it.

Why would you follow this thread if Bakuman doesn't have the slightest chance of being cancelled? :P

As for Kuroko's sudden drop (AND Hoop Men's failure... God, I've been saying this all the time lately), I call it a case of readers who want only action, action and action all the time. Kuroko was giving them that... but then it suddenly stopped to breathe a little and BANG! Bottom 5. The action resumes in the next ranked chapter, though, so as I said, if it rises up again, we'll know if I'm right.

tygreas
June 17, 2009, 06:23 PM
@ same old, sorry if my lax sentence structure was misleading, i am always checking up on this thread, i have no fears over bakuman's success, bakuman was the place where i learned the importance of Table of content placing and rankings, also indirectly this thread exposed me to MxO and double arts, and man was i heart broken to know they fell victim to the harshness of wsj's competitive culling.

SameOld
June 17, 2009, 06:58 PM
Oh, I see. It's the reason why you became interested in this, then.:)