Mag Talk Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk [Archive] - Page 6

Crude

February 19, 2009, 04:52 PM

I don't exactly know how the future arc in Reborn! could suck compared to the other arcs. I mean in theory it should work:

- Rival Mafia famiglia appears, which happens to have resulted from the merger of two famiglias
- Both factions of the famiglia secretly hate each other
- Rival famiglia causes unrest in the Mafia underworld, almost eliminating the Vongola
- Vongola fight back by invading rival famiglia's secret base, and most of the fights don't follow shounen stereotypes

This could've worked if it weren't for the fact that this arc takes place in the FUTURE! I mean how is the manga supposed to continue after this arc if all the new moves the main characters have learned require techniques and resources of the future? Speaking of which, the different flame types, rings and boxes are cool, but decrease the individuality of every character. And don't get me started on everyone having a pokémon now...

And just so this post isn't Reborn exclusive, this ToC looks a little wack. Bakuman's pretty low :(, Neuro does get a colour page :), Psyren's at the top of the bottom :), yet Sket Dance and Mago are still low :mad. Both of those series actually sell well, especially Mago, so I really don't get this ToC.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 19, 2009, 06:27 PM

I hope Bakuman and Psyren just had bad weeks because they are really the only newer manga in Jump that I care about right now.

Onomatopoeia

February 19, 2009, 07:29 PM

And OH GOD the Pokemon.

Bleach was annoying with all the pokemon ripoffs(seriously Barragan was a pokemon trainer) in the Arrancar Releases.

But OH GOD the "Pokeballs" in Reborn make me want to hurt myself when reading it. Not only that but it's so retarded now, the Varia Arc had so few superpowers and you'd actually see some cool stuff, the abilities were tame and original but now it's just "Pew Pew OMG, Lasers/Fire/the Pokemans/Horrible Art" god damned mind numbing.

I wish Amano would take a few weeks off and just read her entire manga to see where the suck started and what needs to change.

/Rant

StrangerAtaru

February 19, 2009, 07:55 PM

About Sunrise: compared to the Toeis, Pierrots and even Madhouses of the world, Sunrise only have two Jump series to their name: City Hunter and Gintama. In fact, Sunrise has only really had a regular shonen series since they got Inu Yasha and Gintama is their third after that and Ja-pan. Personally, I could still see them doing a great job with Sket and really rather they started that in October instead of doing Gintama for another year...but the truth is Gintama could use this move to it's advantage as becoming an "old guard" member of the magazine. I really hope though it doesn't turn the series into another Bleach which needs it's anime to stay on the air lest if will whither, collapse and die. (it more seems like it's TV-Tokyo that wants it to keep going anyway...which is weird considering how they seemed to love hiding it after not succeeding in the Golden Hour first year)

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 19, 2009, 08:22 PM

Sexy Randal 105

February 19, 2009, 09:17 PM

Speaking of Reborn, I know exactly how the last arc will go. It has to end with all of the arcobaleno coming together and the curse being broken somehow. Then it has to end with a badass fight with adult Reborn. Who knows how many arcs there will be before we have the "Arcobaleno Curse" arc. I think the problem with the future arc (Or at least as far as i got in it) was how slow the pace was compared to the other two arcs.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 19, 2009, 09:38 PM

Are you going to take Asklepios and Meister off of your picture, Randel? Or are the wounds still too fresh?

Hayashida

February 19, 2009, 10:04 PM

i didnt mind the varia arc. i liked seeing where they were at that point. lol and yeah, whenever i think of how the future arc is goiing to tie into the main story im stumped. still like it though.

lol yeah the box weapons are kind of poke-like, but whats wrong with pokemon; gotta admit it was great when it first came out. did drag along though.......for a long time.....
but it was astroboy and tekkaman blade that got me started :3

cant wait for D.Gray to come back, whatever happens when it does, its going to be excellent.

and i think randal hated asklepios more than anyone lol

Sexy Randal 105

February 19, 2009, 11:24 PM

Are you going to take Asklepios and Meister off of your picture, Randel? Or are the wounds still too fresh?

I always wait until I have high res scans of the new series before I take the sacrifices off. I'll wait til we have some good pics of Hoop Men and Beezlebaby.

Imitorar

February 20, 2009, 12:11 AM

good for gintama... but i wanted the staff to work on sket dance instead *bawls like a spoilt brat*

anyway yadda yadda yadda d gray man's still compelling, especially with the new exorcist and link fighting for a change... yadda yadda reborn's colour art shifted a while back to this sorta overly bloomed mess with rosy cheeks on fucking everyone and making them look like drug users, a wonderful support to the mediocrity i get from it week by week... yadda....yadda.... yadda....... *sigh*

it's not that i want it cancelled. i just want one straight month of being in the bottom 5, and a tank underselling, jsut to remind Amano how the fuck to make a good manga.

yare yare dawa or whatnot
Yare yare daze. Yare yare dawa is in the female form. You've gotta keep those classic Jump references straight.

And on the subject of Reborn, I also have been rather underwhelmed by the Future arc. It was actually okay, rather interesting in the beginning, but especially since around the heavy fighting started in the Millefiore base it's been reminiscent of, well, post-Soul Society Bleach... Especially with the most recent development. New opponents appear out of nowhere, and there's gonna be another huge series of fights involving the REAL opponenets? Yeah, that's textbook Kubo-style writing. And Bleach is the other Jump series that I feel has gone from good to abysmal.

Both Bleach and Reborn could use a few weeks under Kochikame and low tankobon sales for a volume to shock their respective manga-ka back into competence, as Noodles suggested, and both Bleach Reborn will probably continue at where they are now (unless they somehow actually improve), for the same reasons. Both series' have rather impressive laurels to rest on, not to mention established fanbases who seem to care more for cool bursts of energy and mindless action than they do for a coherent and entertaining story. As long as the franchises do well, than the manga sales will be minimally, if at all, effected, and the average ToC ranking won't go much below second tier. Even Bleach, which seems to be slowly but surely losing its consistent #3 spot to either Toriko or Gintama has only sunk to the by far top of the second tier series', and it's not likely to get lower. So the chances for an improvement in the quality of both series' rests with the manga-ka, and seeing as they're the problem in the first place, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

As to Bakuman being so low, one spot below Kochikame is far from bad, especially for an already established popular series such as Bakuman, with high tankobon sales and the name of two VERY popular manga-ka on it. Bakuman is a guaranteed second tier mainstay, and that means that Jump doesn't need to push it so far to keep it sustained. I always expected Bakuman to average within 2 or three spots of Kochikame, usually about 2 spots above. That's where I'd expect a solid second tier series to hold, and I'm sastisfied with that sort of performance from Bakuman. It's only really action series' that ever make the top tier, so Bakuman was destined for the second tier from the beginning, and I expect it to do well in that position. And in terms of its position, where it is IS rather well.

I have just given a children's comic book magazine far more analysis than most people would think it healthy to give, and I don't mind at all. Hello mania...

Galactic Tomahawk

February 20, 2009, 05:39 AM

I am not current with Reborn so I can't really say but I'm hearing a lot of Pokemon references (none of them positive). Is that such a big deal? Isn't Pokemon where it started for most of us anyway? Definitely so in my case. Why is it so bad that Reborn has some current Pokemon similarities?

It's not necessarily a bad idea, animal familiars aren't a new concept and it could have provided an interesting twist on the character's powers if it was handled carefully. (Albeit them popping out of magical compact boxes is pretty suspect)

But the problem is that very few of them have remotely inspired designs or abilities, and they pretty much completely overshadowed several of the characters' fighting styles.

It was at it's worst during the recent varia fight, Squalo and Belphegor barely used their (far more interesting) fighting styles over shooting their box animal at people over and over again, while Lussuria completely dropped martial arts for healing just because that's what his box weapon does. Even their main enemies had little to no ability outside of their animal's gimmick.

Maxy Barnard

February 20, 2009, 06:09 AM

didn't gokudera used to use dynamite a lot? XD

anyway i think we'll be punished by the blue names if we obsess too much over the actual series, so let's get back to weekly shonen jump perhaps in it's entirety... or something

author comments this week.... i'd like them to say that all the series i see performing poorly being ones that were just late in

Galactic Tomahawk

February 20, 2009, 06:44 AM

Indeed, that's probably more than enough on Reborn.

Kinda glad to see Neuro so high (even if it doesn't count), but otherwise this ToC was pretty terrible.

Jump fandom we need to talk.

Koen

February 20, 2009, 06:45 AM

I think the problem with the future arc (Or at least as far as i got in it) was how slow the pace was compared to the other two arcs.

The best reborn analysis that's been made. A very good a priori setting with a bad a posteriori result. You feel like you ended up in the slowest pace ever

Anyway as said, let's talk about something else

anyone who already knows what genre will be served to us with the new serie?

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 20, 2009, 08:34 PM

Because my luck sucks, I bet the Beezle Baby will be an episodic gag with like 1% serious action or something.
[hr]

Both series' have rather impressive laurels to rest on, not to mention established fanbases who seem to care more for cool bursts of energy and mindless action than they do for a coherent and entertaining story.

Not taking a stand either way, but I that really such a big deal? I mean I personally think you can/should have both, but there are other manga people can read if they are looking to be mentally stimulated. I mean, we all know the overall demographic. You either like it or you don't. I find it surprising that people still cannot accept these manga for what they are and what they are trying to accomplish.

ps. Not trying to sound like a jerk, sorry if I do.

Rejuvenation

February 20, 2009, 11:19 PM

Problem with that though is that certain series didn't start off as that. They have the potential to be more. Degradation of any series spanning over a long time period will no doubt frustrate anyone who isn't so blinded by the love of their series they can't see the flaws in it.

Anyway, I'm hoping that the next ToC gives me what I want to see. One Piece, Toriko, and Bakuman at 1,3, and 4. Along with Psyren in the middle tier.

Also it should be interesting to see where D.Gray-man ends up being ranked. I suspect it may get a high ranking since its been gone for so long.

fujitofu

February 21, 2009, 12:09 AM

Doesn't seem like anyone has posted this week's ToC yet, so I scanned it and the cover.

http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1448927_cover_copy.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1448927/cover_copy.jpg.html) http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1448928_TOC.jpg (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1448928/TOC.jpg.html)

Kaiten

February 21, 2009, 12:42 AM

Also it should be interesting to see where D.Gray-man ends up being ranked. I suspect it may get a high ranking since its been gone for so long.

I think it will be unranked for eight weeks as there hasn't been anything to vote for since November.

Rejuvenation

February 21, 2009, 01:59 AM

I think it will be unranked for eight weeks as there hasn't been anything to vote for since November.

I meant after it could finally have its first few rankings. XD

Hopefully Hoshino doesn't give 15 pages per chapter again. .___.

Kaiten

February 21, 2009, 02:18 AM

I meant after it could finally have its first few rankings. XD

Hopefully Hoshino doesn't give 15 pages per chapter again. .___.

I expect little to nothing from DGM once it's ranked again. Middle of the magazine will be fine with me. I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get from Hoshino - sensei. 15 pages would be fine as long as the art's good and she makes it at least a year without another long hiatus. While I liked the plot of the pre - hiatus arc the art was rough. Really rough by DGM standards. Obviously I can understand why, in retrospect.

Koen

February 21, 2009, 04:28 AM

I think it will be unranked for eight weeks as there hasn't been anything to vote for since November.

I thought it was 8 issues but a week with no magazine after it, makes it the same. Then again there's less chapters when the rating starts when you're somewhere with double issues

StrangerAtaru

February 21, 2009, 05:49 AM

Maxy Barnard

February 21, 2009, 06:10 AM

well then my top 5 predictions are

Naruto
Toriko
Gintama
Bakuman
Bleach

i like predicting

xi0

February 21, 2009, 09:13 AM

I'm all caught up on Psyren now, and gee...it drastically improved over where I left off (ch 21). Glad to see it isn't doing too bad.

Koen

February 21, 2009, 09:40 AM

I'm all caught up on Psyren now, and gee...it drastically improved over where I left off (ch 21). Glad to see it isn't doing too bad.

Aha a good reason to bring some input in our section. I remember you gave it storyw.i.s.e. more chances/credits than mieru hito. Imo it deserves to be in jump for a while. This leads me to an unanwsered question you might answer: how many chaps did mieru hito have in total? I remember it had its char poll and the chapter after the poll it was cancelled

Muddy

February 21, 2009, 09:58 AM

Mieru Hito ended with chapter 57, I believe.

Sexy Randal 105

February 21, 2009, 10:23 AM

I'm all caught up on Psyren now, and gee...it drastically improved over where I left off (ch 21). Glad to see it isn't doing too bad.

I think Psyren just had to establish a few things before it could get to the real meat of the story. But even for a shonen start, it didn't do too bad. At least they didn't have it so every time they go to Psyren they beat a monster every chapter. That's the pattern most series start out with. Take Muhyo, Neuro, Bleach, etc.

Googlez_kun

February 21, 2009, 10:24 AM

Where can i read this new manga Beezle Baby??
it looks very interesting :amuse

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 21, 2009, 10:55 AM

well then my top 5 predictions are

Naruto
Toriko
Gintama
Bakuman
Bleach

i like predicting

I that a serious one? Because I don't see Bakuman or Gintama beating Bleach.

And if were lucky, there might be raws by this time next week. It just depends on when someone wants to do it.

SSJWill4

February 21, 2009, 02:47 PM

I that a serious one? Because I don't see Bakuman or Gintama beating Bleach.

And if were lucky, there might be raws by this time next week. It just depends on when someone wants to do it.

The last time Bakuman beat Bleach was in Issue 10, and Gintama just beat Bleach this Issue, so I don't see what you mean...it seems very feasible to me.

StrangerAtaru

February 21, 2009, 02:54 PM

For those who don't think Gintama can beat Bleach, just think about this: the arc of Gintama that's currently being ranked is both a comedy story (which are always popular, sometimes more so than the actiony stories) and involves the Shinsengumi (who are fangirl bait). Considering those and Bleach's recent lowering (though not as much now they're doing Ichigo-esque chapters), it is feasible for Gintama to rank higher for a few weeks over Bleach.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 21, 2009, 03:26 PM

I did not mean it was impossible. Maybe one or the other occasionally, but both at the same time? I'll have to see it to belive it. Especially now that the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight is under way.

Since One Piece is on hiatus next week, will it still be ranked in the TOC? Or would that throw off the order or something?

I was wrong about that Beezle Baby thing. A raw is out already. That was quick. Let the sub-par manga begin...

Galactic Tomahawk

February 21, 2009, 04:03 PM

I like it

hope it sticks around.

StrangerAtaru

February 21, 2009, 04:21 PM

Since One Piece is on hiatus next week, will it still be ranked in the TOC? Or would that throw off the order or something?

No chapter means no rank. Essentially aside from Hoop Men (new), Beezle Babu (newish) Kuroko (ranking but removed...though surprised it's getting yet another color so soon) & Inumaru (semi-new but removed for the week), everything is ranking but OP, which is absent.

Maxy Barnard

February 21, 2009, 06:19 PM

I was wrong about that Beezle Baby thing. A raw is out already. That was quick. Let the sub-par manga begin...

yeah let's let the thing that you've yet to be able to form an informed opinion on begin......

anyway looking over beelzebabu/bub it's looking pretty tight. art's kinda like a more relaxed psyren (no means a bad thing) combined with some great over the top eccentricities.

okay finished it now (reading it WHILST posting? MAD MAN!) and i'm officially stoked

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 21, 2009, 06:47 PM

yeah let's let the thing that you've yet to be able to form an informed opinion on begin......

I already looked at the first chapter. And just as you are stoked, I am dissappointed. For now anyway...

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 21, 2009, 07:14 PM

At least Naruto gets to stay at No.1, for the second week running. :p

Maxy Barnard

February 21, 2009, 07:17 PM

unless it doesn't. ya never know when toriko will pull itself above once in a while

Koen

February 21, 2009, 07:21 PM

I already looked at the first chapter. And just as you are stoked, I am dissappointed. For now anyway...

I don't agree with that... It's only the first chapter but the main character and that funny looking baby were already good enough to me. I look forward to more, based on this first chapter. I certainly don't expect this one to be translated or scanlated because this is the type of series that doesn't get the attention

How can the art be compared with psyren :oh relaxed?... Maybe I haven't read psyren or I missed something but psyren's art and this new one is completely different imo.

Anyway let's see what it'll give ;) some will enjoy this, others won't... but this one started good

predsfan

February 21, 2009, 07:25 PM

I don't agree with that... It's only the first chapter but the main character and that funny looking baby were already good enough to me. I look forward to more, based on this first chapter. I certainly don't expect this one to be translated or scanlated because this is the type of series that doesn't get the attentionIt's sad really. It looks interesting, yet I hold no expectations that it will get scanlated. I'd settle for I trans, but I doubt anyone will do it.

So no One Piece next week, huh :o. That just ruined next week for me. I hope that means colors again in two weeks (though, I hope D. Gray Man gets the cover). Maybe Hoopmen will make up for it (but I doubt it).

Maxy Barnard

February 21, 2009, 07:25 PM

it's characters like kabuto or amamiyas faces that i kept seeing hints of in the main dude and the gothic lolita girl... i dont know if thats just my lack of artistical analysis but at times i was like 'this guys either worked on psyren or sket dance a while' just from some basic things

EDIT: have some faith that the first chapter will be touched, inudash got that priviledge despite early pannings from people on here (mainly cause the jokes hit flat mosta the time in the chapter, the authors previous bumhat maison du penguin, and the uncomfortable pantlessness) so beelzebabu should do too

Koen

February 21, 2009, 07:29 PM

it's characters like kabuto or amamiyas faces that i kept seeing hints of in the main dude and the gothic lolita girl... i dont know if thats just my lack of artistical analysis but at times i was like 'this guys either worked on psyren or sket dance a while' just from some basic things

Ah sorry completely misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the complete art.

Yeah, I know. Now you talk about it. I reread it and I know that feeling. Kinda like most people (except my mate) don't understand me when the facial emotional (when they are in serious mode of course) expressions of psyren characters do remind me of toriyama and dragonball.

Bomber D Rufi

February 21, 2009, 07:42 PM

GARusashi

February 21, 2009, 09:40 PM

So is Beelzebub a complete comedy series or does it sort of hint at becoming more serious eventually? I'd kill for a series about Demons and what not in JUMP (I love the whole Satan, Beelzebub, Lilith, etc thing.)

Maxy Barnard

February 21, 2009, 09:50 PM

complete comedy series with action involved by the look of it. so a hybrid but not in the standard way

Galactic Tomahawk

February 21, 2009, 10:17 PM

Had more of an action element than I expected after reading the Oneshot but for now it's primarily comedy. The action seems like it's there so the author could go either way if he wanted.

xi0

February 22, 2009, 02:53 AM

Aha a good reason to bring some input in our section. I remember you gave it storyw.i.s.e. more chances/credits than mieru hito. Imo it deserves to be in jump for a while. This leads me to an unanwsered question you might answer: how many chaps did mieru hito have in total? I remember it had its char poll and the chapter after the poll it was cancelled

No, I think I said I preferred Mieru Hito's vibe to Psyren's initially, but I think it's clear now that Psyren has much more direction than Mieru Hito ever really had. Mieru Hito will always have a fond place in my heart, but Psyren has surpassed it.

And it had 7 volumes I believe.

Xophien

February 22, 2009, 03:09 AM

Read the Baby-satan first chapter (Okay I'm bad with names....) And I did rather enjoy it. Nice art, very reminiscent of Gintama//Psyren//Ueki. (With the lead heroine looking a lot like Yako from Neuro.) And an interesting premise. Though I'm probably not going to put this in my 'consideration' box for now, because of my staunch opposition to Jump, and the fact that I'd rather not do three gag series.

I hope it does get the attention it deserves, and lives a while.

Bombeeeer ;_; I hoped you'd do it, since you're already indulging your masochistic self with other gag series, I thought you'd save another translator from the horror of having to do it >.>

FINE! I liked the chapter, and this could be an opportunity to get away from that "sports manga translator" tag >.> Can't promise I'll be fast, but I'll probably give it a try :shakefist

Cassius

February 22, 2009, 10:22 AM

Bottom five

◆EizHb38XPU ：2009/02/23(月) 01:05:08 ID:H7DESB39O
小ネタ
・14ドベ５　とら、ぼっけ、ネウロ、PSY、21
・休OP
・15頭鰤巻　Ｃ灰、フープ

#14 (02/03) :

Eyeshield 21
Psyren
Nogami Neuro
Bokke-san
To Love
Jaguar

No Op this week.

#15 (09/03) :
Bleach (Cover & PC)

Colour: Hoop, D.gray-Man

GARusashi

February 22, 2009, 10:49 AM

ugh Eyeshield really beats out Psyren? And Bokke in the bottom? That's a horrible ToC. Hopefully they give Bokke at least another volume to do better, I mean they gave Asklepios more time, and that was a pretty unknown manga-ka.

Koen

February 22, 2009, 10:50 AM

Mago out of it makes me glad. I kinda predicted the hyakki yako would get mago out of it. Bokke (be that damned jojo and it should get at least double more chapters than asklepios) and psyren in the danger zone is making me sad. Nothing to worry.

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 10:51 AM

Mago's finally out of the bottom five!! To bad Psyren's still there, it deserves better. As I expected, after dropping a couple of spots every week, Bokke bottomed out.

Now if only there were news about the cover of issue 15. I want to know if it will be D. Gray Man.

I mean they gave Asklepios more time, and that was a pretty unknown manga-ka.

ah, Asklepios only made it to chapter 19, you can't call that editors love. It's actually pretty pathetic. February was the first time cuts where it had enough chapters to end. In November, when it was already in the bottom five, it had less then a volumes worth of chapters.

Koen

February 22, 2009, 10:55 AM

No worries at all. As soon as later bokke chapters (8 and 9) are going to be rated then it'll get a mago boost if you ask me. Later chapters (raw based since there's no translation and scanlation) really looked pretty good. Nishi will get more time given what he did with muhyo and Please end TLR: it's obvious people are sick of it given the low and low positions.

StrangerAtaru

February 22, 2009, 11:04 AM

Mago and Sket not in the bottom are good...on the other hand, it's sad to see Neuro back down there again...but they don't have much to go. As for To-Love...well usually when an established series is down there, Jump gives it time before they start putting the clamps down to end it so hopefully Yabuki and Hasemi know that their time may be up. As for ES21...well, luckily the final game is starting.

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 11:11 AM

I'd care more about Neuro if they hadn't already announced it's ending this year. I'm really hoping to open this thread next week and see Kuroko's taken it's rightful place in the basement, but maybe I'm wishing for to much.

No worries at all. As soon as later bokke chapters (8 and 9) are going to be rated then it'll get a mago boost if you ask me.

So long as something I like more (Psyren, Mago) isn't canceled in Bokke's place, I wish it all the best.

Cassius

February 22, 2009, 11:15 AM

I've already updated with the complete translation

Bottom five

◆EizHb38XPU ：2009/02/23(月) 01:05:08 ID:H7DESB39O
小ネタ
・14ドベ５　とら、ぼっけ、ネウロ、PSY、21
・休OP
・15頭鰤巻　Ｃ灰、フープ

#14 (02/03) :

Eyeshield 21
Psyren
Nogami Neuro
Bokke-san
To Love
Jaguar

No Op this week.

#15 (09/03) :
Bleach (Cover & PC)

Colour: Hoop, D.gray-Man

Koen

February 22, 2009, 11:15 AM

As for ES21...well, luckily the final game is starting.

I do not agree with that... ES21's current bad ratings are because of its speed how such a tournament was handled. There wasn't any need for a tournament and people feel that way. I think when the final game against america will be rated then es21 will come back to its usual good ratings (last 2-4 chapters have been pretty good). A final and long awaited match. Their opponents are certainly cool and let's hope it won't be rushed

So long as something I like more (Psyren, Mago) isn't canceled in Bokke's place, I wish it all the best.

well I second to that for me: psyren > mago > bokke

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 11:19 AM

well I second to that for me: psyren > mago > bokke

I'm hoping one of the new series is crap or one of the basketball series crash immediately, removing Bokke from danger.

How did Bleach get a cover over DGM!? Are they joking? There hasn't been a chapter since November and no cover since '07. This is hardly fair. At least more of Hoshino's awesome color pages are coming!

GARusashi

February 22, 2009, 11:19 AM

I don't think any need to be canceled. I think Bokke needs more time to get better, because Psyren wasn't anything great in it's 9th chapter, and Mago sure as hell wasn't good by the 9th chapter. I already find Bokke-san pretty intriguing, even if it's a bit confusing. The art itself deserves a higher spot then the bottom.

Koen

February 22, 2009, 11:26 AM

Of course there isn't going to be a cancel within the next weeks (well at least I hope so). Some manga and mangaka seem to get more credits than others. We can't speak for the new ones but two basketball manga is a bit too much. So my guess: hoop men won't get an audience

GARusashi

February 22, 2009, 11:30 AM

Yeah I really think Hoop Men is going to be fodder for whoever they have waiting in the wings for the next serialization. My bets are on Naoshi, which I wouldn't mind any of the lower ranked series being canceled for some Naoshi story telling.

eni

February 22, 2009, 12:08 PM

Gaaah, DGM's return and a new series starts but Bleach gets the cover...

*randomly kicks someone*

Seriously! :bored

Maxy Barnard

February 22, 2009, 12:35 PM

I'm hoping one of the new series is crap or one of the basketball series crash immediately, removing Bokke from danger.

How did Bleach get a cover over DGM!? Are they joking? There hasn't been a chapter since November and no cover since '07. This is hardly fair. At least more of Hoshino's awesome color pages are coming!

hint: bleach is pimped. constantly.

also everyone run i'm afraid eni might go on a rampage over this.... i mean she just kicked someone and now they've been launched into space by her righteous annoyance :D

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 22, 2009, 12:37 PM

Bleach is suppose to be going through the best part of the story, which is why it might be getting pimped.

Digital_Eon

February 22, 2009, 12:50 PM

Bleach needs to get cancelled. It's obviously NOT going to survive without the ridiculous amount of covers it gets.

Seriously. I understand DGM not getting the cover if Hoop Men begins that week, but that gets shafted too? Dear god. Talk about a pimped series. Thanks for sacrificing a series that already sells well for this, Jump!

Muddy

February 22, 2009, 12:51 PM

Hoop Men will have its second chapter in the issue with Bleach on the cover. The bottom five above is for the issue in which Hoop Men starts. So only DGM gets shafted (which still sucks).

eni

February 22, 2009, 12:55 PM

Bleach is suppose to be going through the best part of the story, which is why it might be getting pimped.Bleach's best part was... uhm... three years ago? >.>

As much as I liked some instances of the post-SS arc (e.g. when Inoue said baibai to Ichigo :scry or when Ulqui got his bitchslap from her :clap or when little Nell - ah, so cuuute - transformed into sexy Neliel :blink or or or the appearance of Kaien :love, ect...) but if you cut all the boredom inbetween out you could reduce Bleach easily into a 12 volumes complete series by now -_-;

Maxy Barnard

February 22, 2009, 12:56 PM

i still stand by the fact that the first 6 volumes were excellent, and the shift to SS wasn't even neccesary. i mean it'd have still been awesome if it stuck to reality

eni

February 22, 2009, 01:00 PM

Well, I would agree with you but the issue to me is more the tournament style fights and not the setting. They can go to as much worlds as they want as long as they spare me the frequent 'leveling' -.-

Bleach has a interesting background story (yes, there is plot - if you look closely) and awesome characters. It's kinda a shame to drag it down through it endless fight sequences when there's soooo much Kubo could tell about the actual story.

Onomatopoeia

February 22, 2009, 01:00 PM

Bleach Cover over D.Gray Man Cover?

Symbolic Middle Finger from Shonen Jump Editors to Hoshino?

I think so.

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 01:03 PM

hint: bleach is pimped. constantly.

Ya don't say. hadn't noticed at all *_______*

While I'm a Bleach fan, I'm a much bigger DGM fan, and would prefer the former series to get center color. Besides, Hoshino's color work is so much better then Kubo's, it would be nice to see it featured on the cover.

Hoop Men is not losing it's cover. It get's the cover for issue 14, Bleach issue 15. The color page in that issue is the complimentary second every new series gets. Hopefully Hoop Men is better then Kuroko and the latter collapses. IMO Kuroko gets a little more boring with every chapter.

eni

February 22, 2009, 01:05 PM

Ah, it's the second chapter for the Hula Hoop guys >.>

Sorry, misread it earler :sweat ... but still! DGM! :notrust

Maxy Barnard

February 22, 2009, 01:26 PM

Ya don't say. hadn't noticed at all *_______*

While I'm a Bleach fan, I'm a much bigger DGM fan, and would prefer the former series to get center color. Besides, Hoshino's color work is so much better then Kubo's, it would be nice to see it featured on the cover.

Hoop Men is not losing it's cover. It get's the cover for issue 14, Bleach issue 15. The color page in that issue is the complimentary second every new series gets. Hopefully Hoop Men is better then Kuroko and the latter collapses. IMO Kuroko gets a little more boring with every chapter.

@bold: this is truth.

and both basketball series can live alongside each other, and kuroko is still a quality series, one where the art is steadily improving, so i can only hope it goes from strength to strength.

mainly due to my need for a sports pillar for my four new age pillars of jump idea

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 22, 2009, 01:59 PM

Bleach's best part was... uhm... three years ago? >.>

As much as I liked some instances of the post-SS arc (e.g. when Inoue said baibai to Ichigo :scry or when Ulqui got his bitchslap from her :clap or when little Nell - ah, so cuuute - transformed into sexy Neliel :blink or or or the appearance of Kaien :love, ect...) but if you cut all the boredom inbetween out you could reduce Bleach easily into a 12 volumes complete series by now -_-;

LOL I never said its the best part of the series, but I think its suppose to be since there's a war going on, plus Bleach needs the pimping to keep it popular and recognised to avoid it declining.

I agree the best arc was the SS one.

Maxy Barnard

February 22, 2009, 02:01 PM

yes but IF it declines in the TOC it won't matter with the long term fans still buying it. D. Gray-man sells well, but deserves a full on celebration for its return

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 22, 2009, 02:08 PM

hmm yeah editors probably are favourable to bleach for some reason. :oh

Maxy Barnard

February 22, 2009, 02:16 PM

well because it sells, the same reason they favour naruto and one piece. what they don't get is that they'll sell anyway what with how long they've been around, and that promoting smaller series may actually help them make more money

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 03:19 PM

DGM sells well enough to get pimped. It has the cosplayers, the crap merchandise (http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%96%E3%83%AD%E3%83%83%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC-D-Gray-man-%E3%83%9E%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9F%E3%83%8B%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AA%E3%83%ABver-3%E3%80%8C%E3%83%A9%E3%83%93%E3%80%8D/dp/B0018O5BMY/ref=pd_sim_t_9), a 100 episode anime, the doujinshi, etc. Unlike it's closest compitition, Reborn and Gintama, it doesn't get votes in the TOC. While we all know DGM won't be canceled, all of those mid and low ranks it gets really hurts when it comes to covers. Also, Hoshino used to slam her editor in between chapters during the early volumes. She threatened to name an Akuma after him. There may be some lingering hostility between her and the editorial staff.

Bleach may be getting a little extra pimping because it's the final arc. Strange as it may sound, what with the amount of stretching Kubo is doing, this is the final war between Aizen and Soul Society. It may last another two years, but Jump knows this is the last chance they have to squeeze as many yen out of Bleach.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 22, 2009, 03:49 PM

Bleach is not in it's final arc...

Imitorar

February 22, 2009, 03:59 PM

Not taking a stand either way, but I that really such a big deal? I mean I personally think you can/should have both, but there are other manga people can read if they are looking to be mentally stimulated. I mean, we all know the overall demographic. You either like it or you don't. I find it surprising that people still cannot accept these manga for what they are and what they are trying to accomplish.

ps. Not trying to sound like a jerk, sorry if I do.
It's true, shonen is shonen, but there's good shonen and bad shonen. There are shonen that are cliched and action-based, but the cliches are well executed and the story is entertaining. Then there are shonen where the execution is bad, or the story is dull, and it becomes DBZ the anime the manga, like Bleach. All bluster and powering up and mindless hammering away at enemies, no sort of story or plot, and Reborn seems to be going the same way. Bleach had a story once, and it was a rather good one. Not among the greatest of shonen plots, but fair enough. But now that plot is buried under layers of pointless and dragged out and dull fights. I like shonen, no matter what anyone says about them being repetitive and sophomoric. I don't mind that, but I like them well executed, and Bleach and Reborn have of late been executed horribly.

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 04:04 PM

Bleach is not in it's final arc...

So you don't think everything since the gaiden is leading to the fight with Aizen? As I said it will take a long time to get through every character that gets a fight, but then that's it. I say Bleach ends in 2010 or early 2011.

Akainu

February 22, 2009, 04:42 PM

that is, if Aizen will be the final opponent and the mangaka doesn't find something/someone new they can fight, for example something Aizen set up before he was defeated... *horror*

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 22, 2009, 04:54 PM

First of all Aizen will not be defeated for quite sometime. You are correct on that. In fact I would not be surprised if he turns out to be the final villain (who could be stronger?) But for once, I am not speaking from opinion but from what Kubo-sensei said with his own mouth: "I can't really say how long this story will be by the time it ends, but I have a few more stories that I want to tell, so this series will go on for a while. (laughs)" So if he does not know himself, how can anyone else? I suppose this could be interpreted a few different ways, so if you have any other thoughts, I would love to hear them.

ps. Here is the link to the interview: http://manga.about.com/od/mangaartistinterviews/a/TiteKubo_3.htm

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 04:58 PM

that is, if Aizen will be the final opponent and the mangaka doesn't find something/someone new they can fight, for example something Aizen set up before he was defeated... *horror*

Don't even say it. One Inuyasha is enough thank you. Another year/year and a half of Bleach is enough for me. Hopefully this is the "winter war", Aizen is the main bad guy, and Bleach will end on a triumphant note in issue 49, 2010.

Crude

February 22, 2009, 06:00 PM

I really wanted to see a DGM cover! Maybe we'll get one soon, that is if Hoshino is actually the one who doesn't want to do a cover.

StrangerAtaru

February 22, 2009, 06:49 PM

The biggest problem regarding Bleach is that Kubo just seems to think more like a storyboard artist at times as opposed to a writer of manga. In some ways, the series is excruciating enough but a lot of it just seems more cinematic or like storyboards for a movie than actually a manga written weekly. I can't stand the series myself but unfortunately we're stuck with it until it's done, including these horrid pacing problems and forgetting about storytelling for more fight sequences.

As for how much longer the story has, somehow I still think there probably is at least one more arc left that I can imagine but that's it. As we saw with the Karakura fights, Kubo's starting to reveal the abilities and capabilities of characters who hadn't had the chance until now and will probably soon start revealing more Bankai of the captains amidst the fight with the Espada. Aside from them, figuring out where the Vizard and other Karakura players fit (Urahara, Isshin & Ishida's dad) and the King's Dimension, there probably is enough for another year to year and a half after Ulquiorra's fight now...but knowing Kubo's pacing problems, it will be much longer. Preferably I sort of wish the anime would get cancelled so Bleach would start having more pressure under it to get results or get out...but for some reason Pierrot is just stupid enough to keep it going regardless of their own pacing problems.

Onomatopoeia

February 22, 2009, 07:21 PM

I wonder what happened 2 years ago between Hoshino and the Editorial Department.

With any luck though the Editorial Department will realize it's blunder and give D. Gray Man a cover at least once, maybe twice.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 22, 2009, 07:40 PM

Preferably I sort of wish the anime would get cancelled so Bleach would start having more pressure under it to get results or get out...but for some reason Pierrot is just stupid enough to keep it going regardless of their own pacing problems.

God, I hope you never get your way...

Digital_Eon

February 22, 2009, 07:49 PM

Wow, if there is some tension there, that would totally explain a lot of things about DGM... :notrust

But she got a new editor, didn't she? Or was that part of the problem...

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 08:41 PM

My other theory about DGM is that it has a different audience then the other action series. One Piece is an institution with across the board appeal. Bleach and Naruto are huge with middle schoolers, Jump's target audience. I could be wrong but it would seem that D. Gray Man's audience is primarily high schoolers, closer to the audience of Shonen Magazine. Missing the middle school vote is enough to push DGM to the middle of the TOC.

StrangerAtaru

February 22, 2009, 09:10 PM

God, I hope you never get your way...

Let me ask you this: why do you want the anime to keep going? Pierrot just keeps speeding up things too fast, eating through material and needs to keep bringing in fillers to at least have a chance to keep the anime going. And at the same time, considering the anime is crucial to keep a manga's image out there, ending the anime will start to show who is really into this series and if it really deserves all it gets. Besides, some of the most popular manga out there never even get their whole series animated or wait much longer to get their endings done (like Kinnikuman or St. Seiya)...if Bleach is worthy, it will prove it in the long run and ending the anime now will determine where it stands in the magazine without it. (not to mention possibly get an OVA to get it's ending with no fillers)

Kaiten

February 22, 2009, 09:33 PM

Bleach's anime doesn't seem popular enough to be propping up the manga. The DVD's are never top ten sellers, nor does it ever get a high share in ratings. The manga is a mega - seller, not that far off Naruto in popularity and well ahead of Reborn/DGM. The series best positioned to overtake Bleach are still to new; Bakuman and Toriko will need a couple of years to close the sales gap. What would kill Bleach, in my opinion, would be stretching. If Kubo pushes it past 450 chapters it would be a disaster.

Sexy Randal 105

February 22, 2009, 10:36 PM

The filler is the reason I stopped watching Bleach. After I got to the current arc and found out there were more fillers I gave up. XD

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 22, 2009, 11:10 PM

Let me ask you this: why do you want the anime to keep going? Pierrot just keeps speeding up things too fast, eating through material and needs to keep bringing in fillers to at least have a chance to keep the anime going. And at the same time, considering the anime is crucial to keep a manga's image out there, ending the anime will start to show who is really into this series and if it really deserves all it gets. Besides, some of the most popular manga out there never even get their whole series animated or wait much longer to get their endings done (like Kinnikuman or St. Seiya)...if Bleach is worthy, it will prove it in the long run and ending the anime now will determine where it stands in the magazine without it. (not to mention possibly get an OVA to get it's ending with no fillers)

I'm afraid that my reasons for wanting it to stay are no where near as complex as your reasons for wanting it to leave. While you have a point and are probably right, I simply love Bleach and enjoy reading as well as watching it. I would hate not being able to watch it with Naruto, One Piece, and Yu-Gi-Oh! 5d's every week. I would hate not being able to look foward to new openings and endings. That's all. Besides, is the anime really hurting anyone?

Rejuvenation

February 22, 2009, 11:59 PM

Bottom five

#14 (02/03) :

Eyeshield 21
Psyren
Nogami Neuro
Bokke-san
To Love
Jaguar

No Op this week.

#15 (09/03) :
Bleach (Cover & PC)

Colour: Hoop, D.gray-Man

This does not make me happy. Seeing 3 or 4 of the series I like this low isn't good. :darn

Bleach needs to get cancelled. It's obviously NOT going to survive without the ridiculous amount of covers it gets.

Seriously. I understand DGM not getting the cover if Hoop Men begins that week, but that gets shafted too? Dear god. Talk about a pimped series. Thanks for sacrificing a series that already sells well for this, Jump!

This is freaking truth.

Bleach in its current form is horrid and undeserving of all this promotion its been getting.:notrust

DGM has been gone all this time and really does deserve a cover for its return. I could have even stomached another series getting the cover but for it to be Bleach when nothing special is really happening is just ugh. If all this promotion has to be used to keep Bleach afloat it should be left to drown until Kubo gets his act together. It isn't like it won't keep selling in tank form even if the sales were cut in half.

I also agree with the Anime needing to die. They literally have no material to use since they are so close to the manga Kubo's abysmal pacing pretty much guarantees things will remain that way.

Bleach anime going down might actually push Kubo into the position to increase the story quality again.

Galactic Tomahawk

February 23, 2009, 12:14 AM

Sucks to see Bokke-san keep falling. Can't really be particularly optimisitic about it but hopefully it'll work it's way up.

Glad to see Mago's higher this week.

Bomber D Rufi

February 23, 2009, 12:40 AM

Bombeeeer ;_; I hoped you'd do it, since you're already indulging your masochistic self with other gag series, I thought you'd save another translator from the horror of having to do it >.>

FINE! I liked the chapter, and this could be an opportunity to get away from that "sports manga translator" tag >.> Can't promise I'll be fast, but I'll probably give it a try :shakefist

Lol! talk about irony XD You're trying not to be the 'sports manga translator' and I'm trying not to be the 'gag manga from Shounen Sunday' translator. And am I really that much of a masochist? O_o *Looks at wall of text* Riiiight...yeah. But it looks like we both got beaten to the punch in any case ^^;; I really hope this gets a regular scanner! I have nothing against it or anything I just don't want to do anymore gag for the time being, nor do I want to do Jump manga for the same reason.

To keep 'quasi' on topic....WHERE THE HECK IS MY DGM COVER?! DO WE REALLY NEED ANOTHER BLEACH ONE?! Though I guess this is part of Shueisha's sale tactics, because lets just face it. Bleach isn't so bad when read as a whole tank opposed to weekly. This is why Kubo needs to join the other (Oo)kubo and go monthly. If he did that, he'd have plenty of pages to draw nothing happening, and the hype of a whole month to keep us interested.

Welcome back DGM. Now you come back too HXH and make this magazine whole :)

Xophien

February 23, 2009, 03:44 AM

And am I really that much of a masochist? O_o *Looks at wall of text* Riiiight...yeah.

I've read raws of Gintama. Yes you are :p

Anyway, on the subject of Bleach yet getting another cover, I think that's not a matter of promoting it. I think that's a matter of Kubo being the most bored of all the mangakas in Jump right now (since you can't say there's too much work for him to be done with the backgrounds and fights of Hueco Mundo). So rather than Bleach deserving promotion, I think it's more a matter of Kubo being the most able to produce cover and color pages on a regular basis, while other mangakas are struggling with their schedules.

Koen

February 23, 2009, 06:31 AM

What's wrong with bleach having a cover? Okay bleach is getting a lot of covers and colour pages but it's obvious covers are given to top series like one piece, naruto and bleach (count toriko in sooner or later). Then you have those mid series like sub top ones like es21, reborn, gintama who temporarily get one.

I prefer a hoshino d.g-m drawn chapter with color page over a cover and d.g-m drawn chapter with less pages because of the time consuming cover.

Crude

February 23, 2009, 06:48 AM

At least Bleach covers look pretty. (I'm not saying DGM covers aren't by the way).

Xophien

February 23, 2009, 07:01 AM

What's wrong with bleach having a cover? Okay bleach is getting a lot of covers and colour pages but it's obvious covers are given to top series like one piece, naruto and bleach

It starts to be wrong when Bleach gets as many covers as the other two together >.> Like this great post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1221871#post1221871) of SSJWill4 has shown, the number of covers and color pages Bleach has would just be absurd if it was only reflecting the popularity of the manga, so that's why we're looking for other factors. Unless you think Bleach is twice as much popular as One Piece >.>

StrangerAtaru

February 23, 2009, 07:58 AM

I'm afraid that my reasons for wanting it to stay are no where near as complex as your reasons for wanting it to leave. While you have a point and are probably right, I simply love Bleach and enjoy reading as well as watching it. I would hate not being able to watch it with Naruto, One Piece, and Yu-Gi-Oh! 5d's every week. I would hate not being able to look foward to new openings and endings. That's all. Besides, is the anime really hurting anyone?

Yeah, it's convenient to see it every week, but sometimes you wonder if that time could be used for some other anime. And while a lot of Bleach OP/ED kick butt...you could say that for a lot of anime, though personally I don't think I would notice them so easily if it weren't a shonen series. I don't hate Bleach as much as my venom makes you think so, I just sort of don't think it really is a series like OP or Naruto which sort of is so big that the anime won't end until the manga does...therefore why I think a lot of it's problems should be enough of an excuse to end it and then see what happens.

Koen

February 23, 2009, 08:04 AM

It starts to be wrong when Bleach gets as many covers as the other two together >.> Like this great post (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1221871#post1221871) of SSJWill4 has shown, the number of covers and color pages Bleach has would just be absurd if it was only reflecting the popularity of the manga, so that's why we're looking for other factors. Unless you think Bleach is twice as much popular as One Piece >.>

I don't think bleach is as twice times more popular than One Piece. Well I kinda agree with your argument when it's becoming as absurd as the quoted post showed. No arguing about that. Yes, people can be annoyed by who many covers it get. Then again, I wonder:there must be some reason, no? Somehow editors have to decide this and I highly doubt it would be bleach's love. Well let's see what bakuman will answer later on ;)

Digital_Eon

February 23, 2009, 10:37 AM

Then you have those mid series like sub top ones like es21, reborn, gintama who temporarily get one.

DGM sells well enough to be one, and it was ranking pretty well for a while before the hiatus...

But Jump wasn't always like that. It USED to give covers to more series. It's just stopped doing that now. To the point where it's been more than two years for DGM...

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 23, 2009, 10:56 AM

Like someone said before, Kubo just has more time to do covers then others, I don't think Kubo's art in chapters is that time consuming.

Maxy Barnard

February 23, 2009, 11:07 AM

I've read raws of Gintama. Yes you are :p

Anyway, on the subject of Bleach yet getting another cover, I think that's not a matter of promoting it. I think that's a matter of Kubo being the most bored of all the mangakas in Jump right now (since you can't say there's too much work for him to be done with the backgrounds and fights of Hueco Mundo). So rather than Bleach deserving promotion, I think it's more a matter of Kubo being the most able to produce cover and color pages on a regular basis, while other mangakas are struggling with their schedules.

the ES21 artist seems far more capable of doing more stuff than just the weeklies aswell (hence the high colour count, hetappi, that jump SQ one shot) so i'm not sure i should chastise kubo with this in mind. but it's like stroking the ego of an already jaded creator...

on a related note to other posters, check out the 03/04/05 covers. happier times in jump, happier times.

but ah well let's wait for the gospel of bakuman to answer our gripes on this sorta thing XD

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 24, 2009, 07:02 PM

Wow, never seen an entire day go by without a post... Can't wait for the new covers... :)

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 07:31 PM

Fine. Since one has anything to say. I already posted this to the ShoMag thread, but only like three people ever go there ^^ (shame on you all, it's a great magazine) so I'll post it here too:

This is probably only of interest to me, and says nothing most of you didn't already know about Jump, but here is a breakdown of the demographics for the big three shonen magazines. (http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/02/15/jump-magazine-and-sunday-readerships/)

Rejuvenation

February 24, 2009, 07:43 PM

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 24, 2009, 07:46 PM

StrangerAtaru

February 24, 2009, 08:03 PM

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 08:26 PM

Kaiten and I were also talking about how Mag actually cares about series that don't have anime and give double chapters due to how many have to take a week off every few...compared to "it's been a month, let's give Bleach another cover, screw D.Gray for returning".

It's easier not to give preferential treatment when all that's on the cover is idols. But, how cool would it have been if Jump had given some of it's rising and middle tier series double chapters and color pages just to, I don't know, promote them.

Maxy Barnard

February 24, 2009, 08:28 PM

yeah i think most of us who take an interest in how the anthologies do their business are far more impressed with mag than jump. the only solace is the SQ department obvious have good ideas (lots of colour for matsuri special and ice revolution, yet still time to fit most stuff in? awesome)

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 08:43 PM

Kodansha, in general, is a better publisher the Shueisha. I give Shueisha an edge on two points: SQ is better then Rival and much better then Monthly Magazine. And, Jump is more dedicated to new artists then Magazine. For how quickly things come and go, Jump is dedicated to new series by unknown mangaka and always gives them second chances. You don't see that, at least to the same degree, in the competition.

Onomatopoeia

February 24, 2009, 09:15 PM

Sexy Randal 105

February 24, 2009, 09:29 PM

#14 (02/03)
Kawaguchi Yukinori / Hoop Men (New Série)
Inumaru, Kuroko, Belze (Pc)

Es21
Psyen
Neuro
Bokke
To Love
Jaguar
One Piece (Absent)

#15 (09/03)
Bleach (Couv & Pc)
D,Gray-man (Retour)
Hoop (Pc)

Psyren back in the bottom, Bokkesan proves it doesn't have what it takes to survive, Eyeshield continues to hint cancellation, Bleach gets an undeserved cover and D.Gray-man gets squat.

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 09:39 PM

Thats some pretty interesting stuff actually, fascinating. Though I wasn't blown away by all of the information it was interesting to get a good idea what the exact demographics were.

It was obvious most of Jump's readers were under 18 without that post. How old Shonen Magazine and how balanced Sunday's audience is in comparison is what I found interesting.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 24, 2009, 09:52 PM

Psyren back in the bottom, Bokkesan proves it doesn't have what it takes to survive, Eyeshield continues to hint cancellation, Bleach gets an undeserved cover and D.Gray-man gets squat.

Don't lose faith just yet. Bokke-san can still come back and Psyren has been a rollar coaster for some time. I bet by next week, Psyren will be back above Inumaru, Mago and Sket. And when Hoop Men and Beezle get ranked, it will be above them too. Bokke will survive, but I have to admit it's not looking good right now...

predsfan

February 24, 2009, 10:00 PM

Don't lose faith just yet. Bokke-san can still come back and Psyren has been a rollar coaster for some time. I bet by next week, Psyren will be back above Inumaru, Mago and Sket. And when Hoop Men and Beezle get ranked, it will be above them too. Bokke will survive, but I have to admit it's not looking good right now...
How can you say Pysren will be above Hoop Men and Beezle? Hoop men hasn't even released a chapter yet and Beezle's one chapter in, and, imo, already better than Psyren (granted I've recently dropped Psyren from my reading habits)? It's not right to assume just because you don't like them (how you can already dislike Hoop men w/o even reading a chapter is beyond me), doesn't mean the people who vote will dislike them. Look at Toriko and Bakuman for example. They were successful right from the start. Furthermore, iirc, Inumaru has rarely been below Pysren.

On another note, no color for One Piece after a week off and no cover for DGM makes me :crying. Otherwise, I would have no problems with Bleach getting color and a cover.

GARusashi

February 24, 2009, 10:00 PM

like I said in the Bokke-San thread, it will probably survive. It's only being rated on the first few chapters so far, and the manga-ka is no foreigner to JUMP.

I also just say this because I find the art to be absolutely amazing and attractive. Same with Muhyo, I loved the art, but Bokke is like a polished version of Muhyo's art. I only wish Bokke had a character as awesome as Muhyo..

Sexy Randal 105

February 24, 2009, 10:03 PM

Maxy Barnard

February 24, 2009, 10:04 PM

i'm biased due to my affiliation with beelzebub, but i don't see it doing poorly... ideally it'll do the same as psyren so both survive XD assisstant and master side by side.

and next cancellations could be mago and bokke-san. mago could easily end with it's current arc and bokke may not recover, so it seems the likeliest options. that or neuros end

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 10:16 PM

Bokkesan won't recover. This is usually how you can tell if a series will live. If the series hangs out around the top-middle for about 25 chapters and is occasionally in the basement, it usually has a good chance of survival. If a series is in the bottom five chapters or less from it's first ranking, it usually is going to die off pretty soon.

QFT. The first 10 chapters determine weather it survives or not. Bokke fills every qualification for ending after three volumes.

and next cancellations could be mago and bokke-san. mago could easily end with it's current arc and bokke may not recover, so it seems the likeliest options. that or neuros end.

Mago won't end yet. More likely one of the basketball series will be canceled along with Bokke. I lean towards Hoop Men as Kuroko already has an audience.

Maxy Barnard

February 24, 2009, 10:27 PM

Kaiten

February 24, 2009, 10:45 PM

where can mago go after this arc? i guess a inner conflict arc but that's it really. it's already successful but it has a lifespan. kuroko's popular and hoop men isn't even out yet so we can't rule them out really........ i think whatever happens this is gonna be the toughest cancellation EVER in a coupla months, pretty much everything in the TOC is liked by someone around here

Kuroko's been successful enough to warrant color twice in three weeks, four times in eleven chapters. Mago's a potential hit, action, and out of the bottom five this week. And we both have read enough Jump to know action series don't have lifespans, they can be stretched for eternity if their popular enough. Beelzebub's a comedy, even the comedies that have failed in the last few years (Yusha for example) had decent life spans. That narrows it down to Psyren, Sket, and Hoop Men. Psyren is the lowest seller among all current series. Sket is dead even with Neuro for the next worst. Jump has never had a huge sports fan base, Hoop Men will have to compete for votes with Kuroko. The speed with which Kuroko has established itself will work against Hoop Men in the polls. As Hoop Men will be the least established of the possible cuts, it seems reasonable that it will be canceled quickly. Of course the wild cards are Eyeshield and Neuro, both could easily end by the time next cuts come around. I do agree, these will be brutal cuts. The magazine is in really good shape right now. There are very few series that I personally want to end, and it seems most of you feel the same, even if you have your own preference for what stays and goes. If Shueisha gave me the choice I'd end Kuroko and Eyeshield (mercy killing).

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 24, 2009, 11:25 PM

How can you say Pysren will be above Hoop Men and Beezle? Hoop men hasn't even released a chapter yet and Beezle's one chapter in, and, imo, already better than Psyren (granted I've recently dropped Psyren from my reading habits)? It's not right to assume just because you don't like them (how you can already dislike Hoop men w/o even reading a chapter is beyond me), doesn't mean the people who vote will dislike them. Furthermore, iirc, Inumaru has rarely been below Pysren.

If you can say that Beezle is better than Psyren after one chapter, how come I can't hope that Psyren crushes it in the TOC? Maybe Hoop Men was a little premature, but Kuroko has a decent audience so that puts it at a disadvantage already. I never said that I will dislike Hoop Men, but I know I will prefer Psyren to it and Kuroko is enough basketball for me anyway. If Hoop Men was first I might feel the opposite way. And I can only HOPE that people will dislike Beezle because there are better manga than it in Jump and there are better manga that could be in Jump. Of course this is all heresay, so we will have to see how things play out.

Galactic Tomahawk

February 25, 2009, 12:23 AM

Digital_Eon

February 25, 2009, 01:00 AM

Wait, DGM isn't even getting a promised colour page?! Ugh.

I'm slightly amused that Bokke went to the bottom and is STILL doing better than To Love-Ru.

Kaiten

February 25, 2009, 01:39 AM

Wait, DGM isn't even getting a promised colour page?! Ugh.

I'm slightly amused that Bokke went to the bottom and is STILL doing better than To Love-Ru.

It should still be getting color. I haven't seen any updates at Ritual, or anywhere else, to suggest otherwise.

Rejuvenation

February 25, 2009, 01:47 AM

I think if Eyeshield can naturally end before the next cuts and Hoop Men just tanks it could help to save the other series that we want to keep. Problem being Eyeshield may have another 20-30 chapters before that so it might not be in time. Maybe if Neuro can end first? >.>

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 06:51 AM

14 (2/3)
Hoop men (Cover)
Naruto
Toriko
Belze (PC)
Bleach
Reborn
Kuroko (PC)
Baku
Gintama
Mago
Kochi
Sket
Inumaru (PC)
Es21
Psyren
Neuro
Bokke
Tolove
Jag
OP (Bye bye)

15 (9/03)
Bleach (Undeserved cover, PC)
Hoop, Gray (PC)

Kaiten

February 25, 2009, 07:00 AM

Wow, Mago's position is beautiful this week! Remove series with color and it's in sixth.

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 07:17 AM

Mago is up. I am pleased! It proves it can survive.

Muddy

February 25, 2009, 07:30 AM

Agreed - Mago in sixth is the best news in this week's ToC. Everyone who suspected that it'd jump right back up with the beginning of the battle seems to have been correct (and no surprise!).

Crude

February 25, 2009, 07:42 AM

Glad to see Mago up! Sket also seems to be doing well. Now if only Psyren (and maybe Bokke-san) rise a little...

StrangerAtaru

February 25, 2009, 07:52 AM

Sket should be at least a bit above the bottom 5...but at least it's still got something. Mago's got a good week though.

Mr. Prince

February 25, 2009, 09:40 AM

Randal, I think you've missed the Poké...um Reborn!
It should be between Bleach and Kuroko.

Nevertheless still nice, nice week for Mago! *happy*

Rejuvenation

February 25, 2009, 09:56 AM

*Is happy to see Toriko above Bleach once again* ^__^

Bakuman just barely missed it this time though.

Also is it me or is Reborn not on this list?

Mr. Prince

February 25, 2009, 11:35 AM

Also is it me or is Reborn not on this list?
Yupp, as I said, it's between Bleach and Kuroko.

--------------------------------

Oh yeah, and a first sneak preview for the Cover of One Piece 53:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9576/op53cover.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op53cover.jpg)

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 11:52 AM

The only complaint I have is that Psyren and Bokke are so low and that Toriko beats Bleach yet again...

ps. If To-Love would dissappear, alot of my problems would be solved. It would not be fair to cancel anything else before that.

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 01:36 PM

1 Naruto
2 Toriko
3 Bleach
4 Reborn
5 Bakuman
6 Gintama
7 Mago
8 Sket
9 Es21
10 Psyren
11 Neuro
12 Bokke
13 Tolove

with only 13 series rated this week it's hard to say that anything above 10 is safe, so rather it's anything above 8 this week (maybe including sket dance)

ps. If To-Love would dissappear, alot of my problems would be solved. It would not be fair to cancel anything else before that.

yeah it wouldn't be fair to cancel ALL THOSE SERIES that sell worse than it before love trouble ends.

and what's wrong with toriko being above bleach? they're both high, toriko's just better. still.

StrangerAtaru

February 25, 2009, 02:16 PM

I think some still think it's unbelievable that anything could knock Bleach off the top 3 pedistal it's been on for a few years now. As it stands, it's more like a "Top 4" for the time being with Toriko unless Bleach starts fading further...or something else among the 3 collapses or ends.

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 02:21 PM

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 02:33 PM

yeah it wouldn't be fair to cancel ALL THOSE SERIES that sell worse than it before love trouble ends.

and what's wrong with toriko being above bleach? they're both high, toriko's just better. still.

I may be naive, but I could not care less how well To-Love sales. Money is not everything (I guess Shueisha disagrees). The people purchasing Jump are obviously expressing their distaste for it, and it's taking up space that could be used for something better that sales well AND does not bomb in the TOC every week. Plus, it's a waste of Yabuki-sensei's talents.

I would not care if Toriko was in 4th place constantly. Bleach has been around for years and established itself as one of the top series around and here comes this new manga, barely three volumes long, beating it every week...it ticks me off.

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 02:48 PM

well ya have to face that it won't always be popular, and something can easily rise up and beat it, like toriko has

and admittedly love trouble doesn't do well in the toc, but then bakuman has explained it really well (sure it seems more speculation but considering everything it's not too surprising a thought). sure it should probably move to another anthology but it gets the exposure there and it's doing the series well even if you feel it's a waste of his talents (post year one is STILL pretty meh), so there really isn't a reason for it to go. but really they should ocnsider a jaguar/kochikame sorta position for it just to make analysing the toc easier

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 03:13 PM

I added Reborn. That's the right place right? XD

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 25, 2009, 03:40 PM

So wait before I start reading Toriko, is it just about cooking and food?

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 03:56 PM

it's about gaining food really. it's an action manga. one of the best in recent memory too!

basically torikos a food hunter dude who wants to make the perfect menu, and stuff goes down as it goes along. it's awesome in every way, though the first few chapters were kinda bleh if you don't look at them as kinda satirical of the 80s overpowered types

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 04:00 PM

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 04:08 PM

Wow, Beezlebaby is a classic example of not judging a book by it's cover. It was fucking hilarious. I can't wait to read more.

It has an interesting plot line, I just hope that it has some action and seriousness to mix in with all the comedy.

Rejuvenation

February 25, 2009, 05:32 PM

well most of my hate is focused on reborn doing well at the moment, so i won't whale on bleach, it earned it's status, it's just resting unfairly with it despite being so much worse now.

but reborn...... it earned being pretty cool (6 volumes of hit n miss gags? check! two decent battle arcs? check!) but now it's doing just as well with the lame future arc, which is just horrible... angst angst angst

Reborn and Bleach are basically in the same boat imo. Reborn's Future arc has been pretty bad since Melone base. Bleach has been pretty bad after Soul Society.

Ok well Bleach might have more bad chapters than Reborn atm but both could definitely use some improvements.

I may be naive, but I could not care less how well To-Love sales. Money is not everything (I guess Shueisha disagrees). The people purchasing Jump are obviously expressing their distaste for it, and it's taking up space that could be used for something better that sales well AND does not bomb in the TOC every week. Plus, it's a waste of Yabuki-sensei's talents.

I would not care if Toriko was in 4th place constantly. Bleach has been around for years and established itself as one of the top series around and here comes this new manga, barely three volumes long, beating it every week...it ticks me off.

lol Shueisha definitely disagrees. Plenty of Jump stories like Bleach do not stay in the magazine because of the story quality but because of the popularity in sales and ToC.

I guess Kubo can take it as a hint to step his game up so there aren't any more manga that come along to knock Bleach out of the highest tier. :tem

Besides Toriko does deserve the rankings its been getting.

it's about gaining food really. it's an action manga. one of the best in recent memory too!

basically torikos a food hunter dude who wants to make the perfect menu, and stuff goes down as it goes along. it's awesome in every way, though the first few chapters were kinda bleh if you don't look at them as kinda satirical of the 80s overpowered types

Completely agree with you here.

Koen

February 25, 2009, 06:31 PM

Wow, Beezlebaby is a classic example of not judging a book by it's cover. It was fucking hilarious. I can't wait to read more.

Toriko is ingenious. There hasn't been a new manga with such a diverse world in such a long time. Every chapter just oozes creativity. Makes me kind of want to read Takeshi.

it's about gaining food really. it's an action manga. one of the best in recent memory too!

basically torikos a food hunter dude who wants to make the perfect menu, and stuff goes down as it goes along. it's awesome in every way, though the first few chapters were kinda bleh if you don't look at them as kinda satirical of the 80s overpowered types

I thirded to what these guys say

Toriko is really awesome. Toriko is the boomerang in your face when you judge the book by its cover as I did. It starts kinda slow but as soon as you get attracted to the story, the world, etc then it becomes pretty addictive. The main genre is action but toriko isn't on the other hand the generic action shounen like naruto, bleach, reborn, d.g-m and psyren.

You never fall in a hole of brainless entertainment (*cough* bleach *cough* but not always a negative element: *cough* bleach *cough*). Comedy, great convos, etc makes the action more pleasant as it should be (maybe one of the biggest black holes of generic action shounen)

Beelzebub is hilarious. I liked the first chapter a lot but we need confirmation.

Digital_Eon

February 25, 2009, 07:36 PM

(DGM isn't really a generic action shounen. <_< People are always saying that, and I'm just of the opinion that it doesn't really have a set genre at the moment. In a bad way. Didn't it hit the bottom of the ToC during an action arc?)

I've always been a bit put off from Toriko because of the art. Granted, I haven't read it, but it matters, and... how does the art work for it? Obviously, Jump readers would say otherwise (I'm iffy on OP's, too - not that it's bad, I just don't care for it), but... Like, it's that great? It sounds like a parody, from what you guys are saying.

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 07:40 PM

it kinda flip flops. there are moments that can only be appreciated as a satire on action manga from the 80s, and then it's a brilliant action manga at the same time... it's hard to place. and the art works for it on that very premise, as it's well suited to the 80s style with a peppering of a modern action look aswell, especially with the awesome creature designs (sent in kinnikuman style now aswell, 80s stylings continue)

GARusashi

February 25, 2009, 08:07 PM

I don't know about you guys, but I find D Gray Man to be incredibly hard to understand because of the strange art, especially during the Ark arc.

Galactic Tomahawk

February 25, 2009, 08:13 PM

It's been easier to follow lately but I had the same problem for a while. The art got way too complicated for it's own good.

Though I generally like the series more than a lot of the other higher ranking Jump titles.

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 08:20 PM

DGrayman is totally generic, but the gorgeous art makes up for it. I love generic shonen anyway.

Digital_Eon

February 25, 2009, 08:23 PM

Ah, so I should read some 80s action series before reading Toriko. :3

Action scenes are not Hoshino's forte. Personally, I think DGM is much more plot-based... it's hardly a piece of brilliance, but it's more complex than many other series and it drives the series. Enemies aren't always defeated in battles, the characters get their butts kicked fairly often (and not in the pre-power-up way), and even the one vaguely tournament-ish arc ended in plot, not an epic battle with... well, anyone.

I think if it was an action series (as opposed to a series with action), it would either be more successful on the ToC or it would be dead by now. The fact that the readers make it go all over the place in unpredictable ways speaks to the lack of clear genre for it, I think. And while that may be cool, it's not coming out very well in the series.

(Yeah, if anything, it's action, but it's not really that much like, say... Naruto, much less Bleach and Reborn.)

And that's my long DGM post of the... day. ^^;;

edited: I honestly don't see how it's generic. It's like it's trying to be generic right now, but I haven't read a single series that it really reminds me of. It's just... weird. Inconsistent.

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 08:29 PM

DGM is a lot like Bleach but with more creativity, way better art, a plot and Akuma instead of Hollows.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 08:29 PM

lol Shueisha definitely disagrees. Plenty of Jump stories like Bleach do not stay in the magazine because of the story quality but because of the popularity in sales and ToC.

But wouldn't high sales AND popularity in the TOC indicate at least some sort of "quality?" Everyone has their own opinions, but in the Jump world, the concept of "Majority Rules" rules at least in terms of survival and popularity. I mean, I don't like Toriko but I'm forced to respect it as a quality manga, even if I don't think so myself.

Digital_Eon

February 25, 2009, 08:35 PM

DGM is a lot like Bleach but with more creativity, way better art, a plot and Akuma instead of Hollows.

I respectfully disagree. That's only on the surface, really.

For one, DGM doesn't have a massive cast, and relatively few of its cast are actually capable of fighting. You'd never see any of the styles of arcs as in Bleach. Except maybe the Ark arc... which just felt weird compared to the rest of the series.

For another, it actually doesn't have the big overarching arcs (unless you want to count volumes 4-...14 or 15... which was so subdivided that fans talk about the arcs WITHIN that).

Yes, on the surface, DGM is a lot like Bleach. I think that's what Hoshino was going for, in a way. But the execution is totally different, maybe due to the fact that it actually has a plot. A lot of it is just the way Hoshino writes it, though. Not that it's a good thing, again, but Bleach is the last series I would compare to DGM in terms of the plot execution.

Maxy Barnard

February 25, 2009, 08:36 PM

volumes 10 to..... i guess the zombie arc had kidna lame art, but it's looked a lot more like it should since then... i've forgotten my point... yeah the plots the main great thing because the art can sometimes change for the worse

Galactic Tomahawk

February 25, 2009, 08:38 PM

Onomatopoeia

February 25, 2009, 09:17 PM

DGrayman is totally generic, but the gorgeous art makes up for it. I love generic shonen anyway.

While I don't consider D.Grayman all that generic. I still totally agree with you, I enjoy reading completely generic Shonen like Veritas, mainly because of the excellent art.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 09:20 PM

Veritas is a manhwa, so could you really classify it as a shonen? (I agree with you, although I read "generic shonen" because I like them in general).

Sexy Randal 105

February 25, 2009, 09:46 PM

Oh, I forgot a huge one. The tone in a LOT different. DGM has a a few good characters instead of a ton of okay ones like Bleach too.

On another note, I'm recently sad to see Bokkesan so low. The last chapter was actually pretty good. They seem to be setting up an arc of some kind. WOW ACTUAL PLOT! XD

Kaiten

February 25, 2009, 09:46 PM

DGM is closer to Full Metal Alchemist (I say closer but it's not anywhere near as good) then it is to Bleach. Occasionally Hoshino - sensei tosses in a generic Jump fight, but then redeems herself with something amazing. Lenalee and the end of the Level 4 arc would be a good example. The Allen back story arc after the zombie arc is another. Neither Bleach nor Naruto would ever even attempt anything like chapters 165 - 171.

Onomatopoeia

February 25, 2009, 09:56 PM

Veritas is a manhwa, so could you really classify it as a shonen? (I agree with you, although I read "generic shonen" because I like them in general).

It's got generic Shonen elements by the bucketload, though.

So yes I'd classify it as that.

Kaiten

February 25, 2009, 11:43 PM

Did I mention I loved Beelzebub? First new series of 2009 I really like. It's original (and strange) enough that it could be big.

Rejuvenation

February 25, 2009, 11:51 PM

But wouldn't high sales AND popularity in the TOC indicate at least some sort of "quality?" Everyone has their own opinions, but in the Jump world, the concept of "Majority Rules" rules at least in terms of survival and popularity. I mean, I don't like Toriko but I'm forced to respect it as a quality manga, even if I don't think so myself.

Something that sells a lot and gets ranked highly by fans doesn't equate quality. I could use the Britney Spears of 7 years ago to get that point across.

If Majority rules in the Jump World wouldn't that mean the number of people buying To Love are outnumbering the people who are ranking it? I'm just saying that since the story has been in the bottom 5 for months without cancellation. :amuse

Although I do think that it might get pushed to be wrapped up soon depending on if new series start to tank or not.

DGM is closer to Full Metal Alchemist (I say closer but it's not anywhere near as good) then it is to Bleach. Occasionally Hoshino - sensei tosses in a generic Jump fight, but then redeems herself with something amazing. Lenalee and the end of the Level 4 arc would be a good example. The Allen back story arc after the zombie arc is another. Neither Bleach nor Naruto would ever even attempt anything like chapters 165 - 171.

I've always felt that DGM was more of a light FMA more than anything else. I do agree with many of the points you have made.

My only problem is just that the art can be all over the place at times which makes it harder to follow at some points. Oh, and crappy arcs like the current and infection ones. >.>

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 25, 2009, 11:59 PM

If Majority rules in the Jump World wouldn't that mean the number of people buying To Love are outnumbering the people who are ranking it? I'm just saying that since the story has been in the bottom 5 for months without cancellation. :amuse

Alright, alright, I know when I'm beat. But, I assume that lots of people who don't read Jump or suscribe to it still might purchase particular series they like in it. Maybe that helps with the sales?

Kaiten

February 26, 2009, 12:14 AM

There was a great bit in Bakuman about To Love Ru. Basically it's embarrassing for young teens to vote for it, or admit to being fans. It could make them look pervy to their friends, and apparently some kids have their parents fill out or mail the post cards for them. It can also be assumed it has a large fan base among the older readers. When you consider that people over 18 make up less then 15% of Jump's readers that hurts it in the polls. But if 15% of 2.78 million readers are buying the tankobon that's more than enough for a hit at book stores.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 26, 2009, 01:20 AM

bleach91

February 26, 2009, 03:43 AM

http://www.shueisha.co.jp/magazine/boyc/jpg/w_jump0499_h.jpeg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2788/nouvelleimage.png http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8808/nouvelleimage1.png

fxu

February 26, 2009, 04:38 AM

She's supposed to be a maid, but looks more like a GothLoli.

Koen

February 26, 2009, 04:41 AM

predsfan

February 26, 2009, 05:29 AM

Well Hoop Men's color looks nice. Also, might I add guy with giant red afro always = awesome ;).

Rejuvenation

February 26, 2009, 05:49 AM

I still can't come up with the purpose of adding another basketball series while they have a basketball hit already. One way or another, can both survive at the same time? Won't one of the two lack interest because of the other?

Anyway beelzebub's color looks great as for hoop men's too. Quite surprised the art isn't that bad as I feared

Its fodder for other series to survive. At least that is what I'm hoping.

Although I don't know if Hoop Men alone can save other series unless Bokke really does end up crashing and burning.

Maxy Barnard

February 26, 2009, 06:40 AM

http://www.shueisha.co.jp/magazine/boyc/jpg/w_jump0499_h.jpeg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2788/nouvelleimage.png http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8808/nouvelleimage1.png

the main characters face...... constantly smiling... staring...... scared.... so cold.... help me....

and ah crap rainbow text in the beelzebub colour page? that'll be confusing to replicate.....

hoop men fills me with both dread and hope, and it's all conflict between awesome hair and a scary face. on thing's for sure: it's prettier than kuroko

Koen

February 26, 2009, 06:43 AM

hoop men fills me with both dread and hope, and it's all conflict between awesome hair and a scary face.

The way my hair is when I let it grow. So thank you :p

anyway never judge a manga by its colour page. Some of them look so good and the next pages you have a is crappola art. But yeah the colour page looks nice

chikkychappy

February 26, 2009, 06:45 AM

:lmao :lmao

What the hell is with the main character's face? Is he autistic or something?

[Cross]

February 26, 2009, 07:20 AM

The cover says love and basket ball, hoop men might have romance, which would be refreshing.

eni

February 26, 2009, 07:36 AM

There must be a relation between basketball and weird eyes. Kuroko's characters look as they were blind and Hoop Men's main character is squint-eyed :blink

Though, the general art looks really nice. Just the main characters face... I agree that it disturbs the whole image somehow :XD

Koen

February 26, 2009, 09:06 AM

:lmao :lmao

What the hell is with the main character's face? Is he autistic or something?

Now you have done it. Autism? Xophien will certainly love this :rofl
Anyway it would be funny if the main char would constantly run with such a smily face

Maxy Barnard

February 26, 2009, 09:47 AM

i too hope he keeps that face ALL THE TIME simply because it'd make for some great humour

Kaiten

February 26, 2009, 09:52 AM

At least there's a hot chick in Hoop Men. Kuroko really dropped the ball on that one. More Basketball played by cross - eyed hero's doesn't do much for me. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Galactic Tomahawk

February 26, 2009, 10:15 AM

i too hope he keeps that face ALL THE TIME simply because it'd make for some great humour

It could be his special ability.

He leaves the other team CONSTANTLY TERRIFIED.

StrangerAtaru

February 26, 2009, 12:24 PM

(looks at cover of Hoop Men, runs away scared)

Somehow I think they thought Kuroko wouldn't last to this point when they approved of this.

GARusashi

February 26, 2009, 12:25 PM

the art really looks like Eyeshield's art. The guy to the left of the main character looks Taka and Yamato had a baby. To the left looks like Shin, Musashi to the left of Shin and Agon with an afro.

Sorry, I just don't want 2 basketball mangas...

Maxy Barnard

February 26, 2009, 12:52 PM

whilst i do, simply cause both can possibly stand on their own merits

Mr. Prince

February 26, 2009, 01:01 PM

lol...Hoopmen's main char really cracks me up. This face is...I so hope he always looks like that. (Oh yeah, and his hair cut kinda reminds me of good ol' Eiji. Though Eiji's more wacky.)
Anyway, from the CPs I think it's superior to Kuroko (which didn't really catch me to this point).

Beelzebub's is also really very likeable - again.

Bomber D Rufi

February 26, 2009, 01:19 PM

Dear god that guy's face. It feels like he's trying to eat my soul by staring at me. I'm not into sports manga so I guess you can tell what I'd rather see out...but I want that Baby satan (Bad with titles) color page as my wall paper. That would be sweet. And As much as it pains me to say this.... I kind of regret not translating it XD. Well kudos to the translator and scantlators!

Maxy Barnard

February 26, 2009, 01:29 PM

make up for it bomber, translate hoop men until the fear of the main character DESTROYS YOU XD

Crude

February 26, 2009, 01:47 PM

Hoop Men's art is prettier than I thought, although the main character looks funny and disturbing at the same time. It looks like he's got the exact same face in both the cover and colour pages.

Rejuvenation

February 26, 2009, 02:28 PM

Creepiest looking man character I have seen for a sports manga in a long time. XD

fxu

February 26, 2009, 02:29 PM

and ah crap rainbow text in the beelzebub colour page? that'll be confusing to replicate.....

It's actually pretty easy. Do a gradient with the color, and then do a gradient overlay.

[Cross]

February 26, 2009, 02:40 PM

whilst i do, simply cause both can possibly stand on their own merits

This might be true, Hoop Men might just try to fill a niche different than that of Kuroko, though both being a basketball series makes that harder.

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 26, 2009, 07:52 PM

I like the cover page. Looks like I was a little pre-mature on the comdeming. The characters look really cool. I think you guys are overreacting on the smile thing...

Bomber D Rufi

February 26, 2009, 09:43 PM

make up for it bomber, translate hoop men until the fear of the main character DESTROYS YOU XD

XD I'd do that If I had an interest in Sports manga. Sadly I do not. Although I'm sure I'll see that guy's face in my dreams now. Though If Satan Baby continues to impress, I may nominate myself as back up translator.

Xophien

February 27, 2009, 10:05 AM

Since I don't want to be accused of cancelling sports mangas, and I'm too busy playing hentai games Hoop Men just doesn't leave me the impression it's gonna survive for long, I don't think I'll translate it. I'll still read the first chapter to make a proper opinion about it, but I'm not convinced at all by the spread page (and even if the character design looks better than in Kuroko, the action scenes in Kuroko are gorgeous for a beginner's work, so it's not like the whole art of Kuroko is to be discarded >.>)

Sexy Randal 105

February 27, 2009, 11:27 AM

Hoop men looks like it's done by an assistant of Murata. Is that right?

Mr. Prince

February 27, 2009, 11:54 AM

Hoop men looks like it's done by an assistant of Murata. Is that right?
Just checked the Japanese Wikipedia: yupp! Murata's stated to be Kawaguchi's teacher.

Sexy Randal 105

February 27, 2009, 12:57 PM

Woot! Called it!

DeidaraGrimmjow

February 27, 2009, 02:20 PM

Wow...assistants are popping up all over the place!

Maxy Barnard

February 27, 2009, 02:29 PM

it's a frequent recurrence, mainly because you rarely get a Naoshi off the bat, so assisstants are thought to be worth a shot, mainly due to industry experience(coincidentally what i believe to be the downfall of everyone's favourite newbie mangaka)... meister kinda proved otherwise to the experience helps thing but ah well.

Rejuvenation

February 28, 2009, 06:09 AM

I have to say that Beelzebub ended up being very entertaining. This just makes it harder for me to choose a manga to sacrifice when the next cuts come around. >_<

*Is still betting on Hoop Men to be the sacrificial lamb*

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 06:57 AM

i'm relishing the next cuts. no matter what, one group of fans is gonna suffer (hopes it's not the 80+ people who've favourited beelzebub on here.... rather... no there's no winning now that bokke-san is FINALLY getting good....)

oh shit i think i'm buggered whatever gets cut next time round.... if neuro has it's natural end that's fine... and presumably bokke-san will go, but the first 6 chapters may aswell take the blame for that one... other than that i can't see any other outcome than hoop men flopping, or beelzebub failing for some CRAZY reason.

gah am i relishing or dreading now? i like all of the things in danger a decent amount ¬_¬

Rejuvenation

February 28, 2009, 07:20 AM

I think its clear you are dreading it Noodles. XD

Neuro having a natural end and Hoop Men dying does save us until the next round of cuts. Maybe by that time Eyeshield 21 will be ready to end its run in Jump too.

One can dream I guess.

Koen

February 28, 2009, 07:33 AM

I agree with noodles but imo he's getting in it too fast :D. There has been cuts not so long ago. So I think it safe the next cut will be:
1. An asklepios/double arts/ hitomi / belmonde case: thinking about bokke-san (or kuroko but that seems off) getting a 15-30 chaps before the cut
2. A meister/m to Y/ ko sen case: beezelbub and/or hoop men
3. A mx0 case: call it the surprise case - manga that have a decent run but are cancelled (psyren? sket?)
4. A maison de penguin/yusha case: let's end the gag for another gag
5. A "natural" ending case

xi0

February 28, 2009, 11:30 AM

The only viable candidate that would be a sorta surprise for rule 3 is Tora, since it can pretty much end at any time and has been tanking for a while now. Yet, it still has been more successful than any other manga on the lower tier.

Sexy Randal 105

February 28, 2009, 11:54 AM

I would just like to state that it has been confirmed that Nurarihyon no Mago will be starting a new arc next week. This means it's basically not going to be cut. Psyren just started a new arc as well so that doesn't seem likely. Eyeshield's presumed last game just started (Honestly, who could they possibly play after the "dream team" of America?). Eyeshield seems like a likely candidate for ending during the next cuts. Either Kuroko or Hoop men is going to have to die off. I kind of doubt Sket will end, since it's been doing good recently. Beezlebub seems too good to be cut. It's the funniest gag series I've read since Gintama. Neuro, To-love, ES21 and Kuroko/Hoop men seem like likely candidates this time around.

Kaiten

February 28, 2009, 12:28 PM

After the pillow fight, Eyeshield deserves to end. Bokke and Eyeshield, I still think they'll be next.

GARusashi

February 28, 2009, 12:54 PM

Kaiten

February 28, 2009, 01:01 PM

Established mangaka will get canceled, and it's not like Nishi is that big a deal. Muhyo met with some success but it wasn't exactly a big hit. Obata and Sawai each have had series canceled quickly in the last two years, both are much more prominent then Nishi. Dropping to the bottom before chapter 10 is the surest path to cancellation. I personally have never seen a series survive that.

xi0

February 28, 2009, 01:05 PM

I still don't see why Bokke would be canceled, Nishi is a fairly successful JUMP manga-ka isn't he? I mean even if it's in the bottom five, I think it'll manage to survive the cuts. Unlike Asklepios where the manga-ka was consistently being canceled.

I guess JUMP could still prove me wrong though.

Nishi is moderately successful. Muhyo lasted for 18 volumes, but it was never a staple series of Jump. It has never had a Drama CD, much less an Anime adaptation, so I guess you could say he's fairly successful.

But being successful doesn't earn you anything. Just look at Takei's Jumbor Barutronica, or Kawashita's Hatsukoi Limited.

GARusashi

February 28, 2009, 01:52 PM

Jumbor got canceled cause it was horrible. And so was Shaman King towards the end. I really don't think Hatsukoi was unsuccessful either, though comparing it to Ichigo, it wasn't.

Sawai got two series canceled didn't he? Shinsentsu Bx7 and Chagecha? That's why I figured Chagecha was Sawai's last real chance. And Ral Grad wasn't really Obata's, he's just the artist. The plot itself wasn't too great. And it still lasted 30 chapters, probably just on Obata's name.

Majin_Reid

February 28, 2009, 01:58 PM

I know this is the 2009 thread, but I didn't know where to post these...

I scanned the covers and spines to Jump 2008's #31 and 47 because 31 didn't have the spine and 47 wasn't scanned at all. The links are the following~

http://img177.imagevenue.com/loc248/th_48398_Weekly_Jump_-_2008_-_31_122_248lo.JPG (http://img177.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc248&image=48398_Weekly_Jump_-_2008_-_31_122_248lo.JPG)

http://img132.imagevenue.com/loc686/th_48390_Weekly_Jump_-_2008_-_47_122_686lo.JPG (http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc686&image=48390_Weekly_Jump_-_2008_-_47_122_686lo.JPG)

Will someone please add these to the 2008 scan dump. I hope this helps those looking for the files, like I once was... now if only we can get the spine image for 2008's issue 52...

Another thing I've been slowly working on...

http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc447/th_50713_Shonen_Jump_-_1996_-_17_9Large6_122_447lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc447&image=50713_Shonen_Jump_-_1996_-_17_9Large6_122_447lo.jpg)

Eventually I'll scan all the 1996 Weekly Shonen Jump covers and put them up as larger sizes. If anybody else has old covers you should do the same~! :D

GARusashi

February 28, 2009, 02:07 PM

oh god Hoop Men's art is terrible, looks like a whole bunch of doodles

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 02:12 PM

first page no massive smile slight shame XD

to me the scrawly art reminds me of a weird mix of honey & clover and eyeshield 21... either way i like it and hope it's jumped on for some weird reason

mainly because it's so.... different

Kaiten

February 28, 2009, 02:23 PM

i like it and hope it's jumped on for some weird reason

mainly because it's so.... different

Agreed. I like the art. It does remind me of Eyeshield and H &C, positive comparisons in my mind (should mention I scanlate[d] Honey and Clover). It would appear to have more personality then Kuroko. I really hope it lasts, though it ha huge hurdles to overcome. If my aforementioned predictions come true, and there are only two cuts next time, it just may. Being the second basketball series, along with Kuroko's early success, worries me.

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 02:28 PM

i'm declaring this gag/sports, to the effect that if anyone actually translates this (hey let's not get ahead of myself, there needs to be a thread first, and i'm too lazy to do the whole thumbnail/description stuff and have forgotten the author) i think i'll make it my second ongoing project XD

though of course that's dependant on the existence of the translation, so perhaps i'm far too ahead of myself and just hopeful

Xophien

February 28, 2009, 02:29 PM

The art of hoop Men honestly is a turn-off for me. And while it has a slightly original setting (main guy was dragged to the basketball club because he can speak english and is the only one that can actually communicate with the transfer student from America), that's still the same old "complete beginner" routine. Kuroko's first chapter impressed me and made me laugh 10 times more. I'm honestly not expecting anything from this one >.>

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 02:34 PM

kuroko's chapter impressed me in different ways really, moreso with the amazing action and nigh on perfectly characterised main characters.

also holy crap almost 100 pages again

also.... since when was i so positive about 80% of the WSJ lineup? (there's about three series that are annoying me right now. that's it. they're bleach, reborn and eyeshield 21 btw)

eni

February 28, 2009, 04:21 PM

The art looked kinda nice to me (also able to improve greatly) and I found the setting also really funny. But I agree with everything Xophien said, so... let's see ^^;

Also, I checked out Kuroko and don't see where the complains about bad art are coming from. It's not the greatest, of course, but a rather typical level for a beginner mangaka which will built up in the future. Many popular artists had a horrible 'newbie style' and this one is even far from being horrible. In fact, the sports scenes are very well done.

Rejuvenation

February 28, 2009, 04:26 PM

Ah, I meant to ask this earlier. Can anyone tell me why Jaguar is deliberately put last and is exempt from the ToC ratings?

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 04:27 PM

my main complaint is just the eyes and front profile views both being poor. the sports scenes are up there with the best, which for a newbie is unprecedented

and OOH I WANNA FIELD THIS ONE!

it's really popular, 7-9 pages long, kinda a mainstaple of jump since 2000, popular mangaka, sells well, and gives the readers an excuse to read all the way to the end.

eni

February 28, 2009, 04:36 PM

I created a thread for Hoop Men... *goes to resize the color spread for the first post*
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46740

Please give a comment there too to push it a little for others to see. Most people won't give a new series a try without seeing an active discussion.

◆ T.D.A ◆

February 28, 2009, 04:40 PM

Sorry have to get this off my chest but Hildegarde(?) from Beezlebub and eni are a good match IMO. There I said it! :yelling

Nani? :blink
*goes to check the chapter* .... you better prepare for a forums vacation till DOOMSDAY when this was meant to be a reference to something scary :notrust

(The German name is correctly 'Hildegard', btw >.>)

Anyway Bleach definitely doesn't deserve to be in the top 3, Kubo too lazy. :notrust

Galactic Tomahawk

February 28, 2009, 04:43 PM

lol I'm not quite sure what to think of Hoop Men yet. The art IS pretty bad, but it looks like the author's well aware of that and doing what he can with it. Reminds me of early Neuro art a little.

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 04:47 PM

ah there's a comparison i didn't think of! i suppose it kidna does. but the sketchy art makes me think of it more as stylised than bad... but then this has stabbed me in the chest with some sorta hoop men arrow of enjoyment

Sexy Randal 105

February 28, 2009, 04:49 PM

*sigh* Basketball manga are just dull IMO...

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 04:52 PM

well i don't know if ya checked it out yet but so far this is pretty low on the basketball compared to most other basketball manga i've checked out *remembers slam dunk* oh wait this is chapter 1 i could be well wrong

EDIT: also thanks eni on the hildegard front, it could well be meant to be that way in beelzebub, so i'll switch it to that from now on in my scanlations... unless a romanisation proves otherwise.

and relax i think he just said you stab people with an umbrella sword... or look like her

StrangerAtaru

February 28, 2009, 05:10 PM

Another thing I've been slowly working on...

http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc447/th_50713_Shonen_Jump_-_1996_-_17_9Large6_122_447lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc447&image=50713_Shonen_Jump_-_1996_-_17_9Large6_122_447lo.jpg)

Eventually I'll scan all the 1996 Weekly Shonen Jump covers and put them up as larger sizes. If anybody else has old covers you should do the same~! :D

Definately put up the '96 covers...it's probably one of the more interesting years of Jump (even if this was in a strange nebula were DB was over and OP hadn't started yet). Besides, that cover alone is win for both Slam Dunk in front and the triple start of the Kenshin/Makibaou/Nube anime. (and of course, being a Nube fan myself, this is probably the year with it's most covers)

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 05:24 PM

StrangerAtaru

February 28, 2009, 05:43 PM

on the nube note i've been reading my way through the first 16 volumes of raws ataru, and i can definitely see why you're a fan of it(even if i can't even understand all but the VERY bare minimum of text)

definitely the sort of 90s manga that i can't imagine being made in these current times of jump(it'd be genericised to hell and back)

Nube is probably just one of those series you don't find in Jump anymore. For one thing, any manga series that essentially has a combination of influences from "Devilman" (Go Nagai's horror classic) and "Dokonjo Gaeru" (a classic day-to-day Jump shonen of the early 70s) is just something you would never expect. For another, even with a lot of the horror setup, it's a charming series where characters actually grow and change as they interact with one another and with the freaky environments they live in, probably a bit like early Takahashi such as UY and early Ranma. (I'd also throw in Gintama there since I've noticed a couple Japanese sites linking the two...but Makura/Okano are more interested in the charming with weirdness and fanservice and Sorachi is more cynical with a taste for the strange and adult) Somehow if I could get my hands on some raws (since I doubt I can take my manga with), I'd start my translations of the series over from chp. 1 and do a complete run with it. (though currently I have other concerns with Kinnikuman, Jii-chan G and some other stuff that's been coming up)

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 06:07 PM

well the raw request thread has a link to zips and rars of all 31 volumes ( http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94014 ) from when i requested it if ya after those, and it'd be fun if you went onto it in the future. but then you already have so much on ya plate just with what's left of kinnikuman alone.

but then this isn't really for here, ya have ya translator thread for me to post about things like this to ya....

so on topic... on topic.... um.........

uh......... reborn's chapter this week was like it's trying to reconnect with it's fanbase that aren't bishi lovers... forcefully. too forcefully. the translation used in the scan at onemanga may be responsible for that but eh... hopefully it'll fall from that.

StrangerAtaru

February 28, 2009, 06:11 PM

Rejuvenation

February 28, 2009, 08:53 PM

and OOH I WANNA FIELD THIS ONE!

it's really popular, 7-9 pages long, kinda a mainstaple of jump since 2000, popular mangaka, sells well, and gives the readers an excuse to read all the way to the end.

Does it sell like a mid-tier series?

Also only 7-9 pages is surprising to me. :s

But giving them a reason to read until the end is a smart move on Jump's part.

Maxy Barnard

February 28, 2009, 09:18 PM

it sells a bit better than the mid tier really, especially considering the volumes are less frequent (about 21 weeks+ for each volumes worth of material)

most gag manga are under 10 pages. ones like beelzebub and gintama that are more than just gags are longer sure, but that's cause they're got less episodic plots (same goes for sket dance). examples: yaoyoro is 4 pages a week in sunday it seems. inumaru dashi hits 7 pages mosta the time i think... and so forth

Dofla

March 01, 2009, 10:52 AM

#15 (09/03)
Bottom 6:
Psyren
Bokke
Sket
Es21
Neuro
Jaguar

#16 (16/03):
Bakuman (Cover & Cp)
Nurari, Bokke (Cp)

Googlez_kun

March 01, 2009, 10:57 AM

#15 (09/03)
Last 6:
Psyren
Bokke
Sket
es21
Neuro
Jaguar

#16 (16/06):
Bakuman (Cover & Cp)
Nurari, Bokke (Cp)

thanks Dofla!

and yes! bakuman gets the cover and a colored page :woot

Mr. Prince

March 01, 2009, 10:58 AM

*stares at the ToC*
Holy...ES21 is going down. : O

And ToLove shows signs of living? I'm amazed.
I don't like this week's bottom...

Akainu

March 01, 2009, 11:07 AM

Bokke gets a colour? sweet enough not to get over the low rankings :)

VASSiLi

March 01, 2009, 11:10 AM

Thank you Dofla. Finally Bakuman'll have color pages! However, here the original text from 2ch:

小ネタ
・15ドベ５　ネウロ、21、スケ、ぼっけ、PSY
・16巻頭バクマン　Ｃぬらり、ぼっけ

Maxy Barnard

March 01, 2009, 11:12 AM

#15 (09/03)
Bottom 6:
Psyren
Bokke
Sket
Es21
Neuro
Jaguar

#16 (16/03):
Bakuman (Cover & Cp)
Nurari, Bokke (Cp)

is this bizarro world? a series that's AILING GETS A COLOUR PAGE?! have they learnt how to promote? admittedly psyren and sket deserve them more for doing pretty well lately, but what the fuck right, nishi's established and successful let's roll with it.
Es21 dead on the ground is lovely, just punishment for fucking up. neuro less so but hey it'll end soon.

sket and psyren though... why the hell are they so low? slight consolation is the massive HOLY CRAPNESS of both's latest chapters will boost em up in 8 weeks time.

not to mention psyren still has it's colour page for the popularity poll coming soon