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View Full Version : Discussion The Mainland and its ongoing 100 years war?



Sportgal1
November 14, 2008, 08:03 PM
I was thinking about the mainland, and i realized that our only source of information was Rubel. We know that he's not the most trustworthey guy. I was wondering if anyone thinks it's possible that the mainland actually doesn't exist at all? Rubel could just be using it gain the Ghost 7's trust or something of the like.

rukori
November 14, 2008, 08:33 PM
It is possible, but not very likely 'cause Rubel's info explain a lot of things like where are the Yoma coming from, why did the Org let so many AB live so far and why do they take so much money from the towns attacked by yoma...
I don't think that Rubel had even a reason to make it up:s.

Krepax
December 16, 2008, 02:11 PM
I always found strange in Miria's revelation that the war in the main continent has been raging for only 100 years. That would also imply that the organization has been existing and experimenting with human hybrids for no longer than that.

However, everything in the story points in a different direction:

1) If we have to believe the "conspiracy theory" of Miria, Yomas are creatures of the organization as well. However, if the organization has been operating for only the past 100 years, there would be more elder people recalling of a time when yomas didn't infest the land (directly or undirectly - it usally takes a few generations to forget something).

2) At a certain point of the story, it is revealed that there were more than 70 generations of claymores. That would imply that each "generation" lasts about one year, but...

3) Claymore recruits seems to grow up normally from childhood, so it takes them some years to reach maturity. If each generation of claymores would last only a year of two at best, the organization wouldn't be able to replentish the ranks soon enough. True, they can get an endless stream of children (and they probably do) but, at this point, it would be difficult to define what a "generation" is.

4) If current events are an indication, a single generation of claymores is more likely to last 5-10 years. At least the more capable warrions (not the low-rank cannon fodder which has to be periodically replentished with new recruits pressed into service even if not completely ready...)

The organization top executives not getting older is not the only strange thing. Miria's explanation of the purpose of the organization and of the war on the 'other continent' is full of holes. So I wouldn't be surprised if, in the end, it turns out to be a mix of truth and lies arranged by Rubel.

Shinomori Aoshi
December 17, 2008, 10:46 AM
Maybe each generation lasts one year, if by 'generation' they mean something like a graduation from high school, well, for this occasion the training the little girls are put through.

I mean, just as you call some people the "X college '93 year graduates" (or however you people call that, sorry), they might also use the same for each generation of Claymores...

kaliayev
December 17, 2008, 03:33 PM
Many of these issues, and more, were voiced a long time ago, when the relevant chapter was released/spoiled. I suggest you take a look at the old mega-conversation.

1) This takes place in a medieval setting. The life expectancy of this period wasn't exactly long. Provided the organization unleashed the yoma and allowed them to wreak a little havoc before making their presence known, the organization could have easily gotten away with playing the role of savior. It wouldn't be surprising if they had an extensive propaganda network in play to counter any such records. When you feed people's fears, it's easy to take advantage of them without their noticing it. Besides, there is evidence of knowledge of pre-organization circumstances through the secluded village that Miria mentioned. At the same time, the most surprising aspect of Miria's theory lies with the holy city, which one would expect to have a relatively uncorrupted history available. After all, it tried to dissociate itself from the organization. Of course, this tradition could be evidence of their subconscious knowledge of past circumstances.

2) Yes, the various claymore generations do pose a problem, but this has been brought up before.

3) I'm pretty sure they don't imbue them with yoma qualities until around the time of puberty. It makes the most sense because the rapid development of the body paired with a hybridization would be useful in cultivating their yoki. They do have an endless supply, which is created by their own "failures" as a policing body. After the trials, which we saw Clare go through, the trainee is ready to become a Claymore. The yoma that attacked made it clear that these trials were quite common so there's always a fresh supply of post-trainees to recruit from. Its similar to the bureaucratic replenishing of the workforce via a country's educational system. Again, it's not a huge leap to put the organization in such a context.

4) I would have gone with four to six myself. The organization's current policy is to exhaust the claymores before they learn too much and grow too powerful. The fierce competition among them serves the purpose of purging members by forcing them to come closer to awakening in their attempts to solidify their individual ranks. Given the time frame we were exposed to during Raphaela's flashbacks, ten years is far too long for a new generation to be cultivated. Obviously, the rate at which claymores are replaced decreases with the higher ranks, but the only rank that is likely to hold for ten years is number one (and two if sisters), and this depends heavily on the grooming of the next number one. The only reasons Alicia and Beth haven't been replaced are because they haven't burned out and are an efficient tool. Of course, this still means the one century timespan is unrealistic.

The lack of aging among the upper echelons of the organization isn't a new revelation. Given the abnormal veins on their heads, it would not be surprising if they were the early creations of the hybrid project or the source of a more pure yoma gene.

Rubel is a covert operative for the dragon kin forces. Given the superior position of the dragon kin forces in the war and the recent possibility of a dragon kin invasion of the organization's research continent, it's sketchy to think that Rubel feels any need to rely upon the partially awakened. If anything, their struggle is a source of amusement. Since there's no pressing need for him to manipulate them, there's no reason to believe that he's lying.

Sportgal1
December 17, 2008, 05:40 PM
Maybe each generation lasts one year, if by 'generation' they mean something like a graduation from high school, well, for this occasion the training the little girls are put through.

I mean, just as you call some people the "X college '93 year graduates" (or however you people call that, sorry), they might also use the same for each generation of Claymores...

Then what would they change the generation by? From what i've seen, they change the generation by number one, or when massive amounts of high level claymores become killed (like at Pieta)

If they were ranked by 'graduation' you could have 3 number ones from the same generation. :amuse i don't think that would work out very well. I think Yagi made life pretty difficult when he said the war had been only raging 100 years, which is actually a really long time.

Krepax
December 19, 2008, 05:59 PM
Since there's no pressing need for him to manipulate them, there's no reason to believe that he's lying.

Quite the contrary, I believe. A half true / half false story could be the fuel to mislead his unwilling allies into goals that otherwise they wouldn't pursue.

The manga always portrays the organization as something shady. During Theresa's flashback story she jokes about Yoma being sent by the orgranization itself. This is something every reader must have speculated at some point.

As far as we know, the organization could be nothing more than some kind of mason circle which manipulates monsters for acquiring power and prestige among humans and Rubel is scheming to take control of it.

If you were Rubel, would you just say to Miria: "Sorry we lied to you: we create both claymores and yomas for the sake of power and money. Could you please lend me a hand becoming the new head of the organization?"
No: you would probably make up a convincing story to fuel Miria's thirst for revenge.

kaliayev
December 20, 2008, 01:57 AM
Quite the contrary, I believe. A half true / half false story could be the fuel to mislead his unwilling allies into goals that otherwise they wouldn't pursue.

If you were Rubel, would you just say to Miria: "Sorry we lied to you: we create both claymores and yomas for the sake of power and money. Could you please lend me a hand becoming the new head of the organization?"

What on earth are you talking about? Rubel pretty much laid all his cards on the table for Clare. He has no desire to take control of the organization. His only fear is that the partially awakened claymores could end up being used for research. Guess what this implies: the dragon kin couldn't care less about Alicia and Beth. They are not seen as a threat. Ultimately, his only reason for manipulating Miria and Clare (after their partial awakening) was to keep them from creating a "controllable" awakened being. Think about how dangerous the organization would have been had Priscilla only partially awakened. He doesn't really fear the ghosts' involvement at this point because it's highly unlikely that the ghosts will turn their blades against the dragon kin or work with the organization. Atm, his only goals with them are to get them to either try to destroy the organization or destroy themselves. Both options clearly limit the organization's power.

Mammago
December 20, 2008, 07:49 PM
What on earth are you talking about? Rubel pretty much laid all his cards on the table for Clare. He has no desire to take control of the organization. His only fear is that the partially awakened claymores could end up being used for research. Guess what this implies: the dragon kin couldn't care less about Alicia and Beth. They are not seen as a threat. Ultimately, his only reason for manipulating Miria and Clare (after their partial awakening) was to keep them from creating a "controllable" awakened being. Think about how dangerous the organization would have been had Priscilla only partially awakened. He doesn't really fear the ghosts' involvement at this point because it's highly unlikely that the ghosts will turn their blades against the dragon kin or work with the organization. Atm, his only goals with them are to get them to either try to destroy the organization or destroy themselves. Both options clearly limit the organization's power.

I think you're wrong about the dragonkin not being worried about Alicia and Beth. When they were finished is when Rubel started making his move. The fact that he's the only one who knew about the half awakened and all of them were sent to Pieta shows he was trying to eliminate at least one problem. Even before then when they were close to completion he was sowing the seeds of discontent with Miria, probably the first half awakened. He knows Alicia and Beth's weakness, but wouldn't be able to exploit it with half awakened leveling the field. He needed to get rid of one and Miria's group was the easiest to dispose of.

Forever_Melody
December 20, 2008, 10:53 PM
I think Krepax's point is what if Miria's entire theory was wrong and what if Rubel is simply playing her in making her believe it is true for his own gain(as in, what if the Dragon Kin and everything didn't exist)?

I personally believe Miria's story seems to coincide well because there would be no explanation for the existence of the Claymores(the swords I mean) if we didn't have some type of other land where they originated from.

My question is what is the origin of the Dragon's kin and their relationship to Youma. Miria says the Organization has been developing Awakened beings to fight the Dragon Kin, but how did they manage to create Awakened beings? Simple genetic tampering? Or maybe they took a sample of Dragon Kin DNA and played with it to get another being. Ad what are the origin of the Dragon's Kin? Does this imply the presence of Dragons in the Claymore universe?

kaliayev
December 21, 2008, 03:48 PM
I think you're wrong about the dragonkin not being worried about Alicia and Beth. When they were finished is when Rubel started making his move. The fact that he's the only one who knew about the half awakened and all of them were sent to Pieta shows he was trying to eliminate at least one problem. Even before then when they were close to completion he was sowing the seeds of discontent with Miria, probably the first half awakened. He knows Alicia and Beth's weakness, but wouldn't be able to exploit it with half awakened leveling the field. He needed to get rid of one and Miria's group was the easiest to dispose of.

Rubel's been making his "moves" since the moment he joined the organization. The reason he tried to dispose of the partially awakened was because he could maintain his alias while doing so. If one starts messing around with the organization's biggest project, someone's gonna notice. However, nobody's gonna notice if he adds a few names to the roster for a suicide mission, especially when said individuals aren't the most obedient claymores. Like he said, he likes to take small steps.

When your entire offensive strategy relies heavily on keeping one individual safe and your enemy knows this weakness, you're pretty much screwed. Hell, remember what happened in The Dark Knight? Dent was both the weakness and the strength of the "white knight" strategy and everything went to hell when the Joker finally got to him. Rubel knows this weakness, which means that the dragon kin know it as well. Obviously, if this weakness is taken advantage of on the main continent, there would be a problem (one or two abyssal ones running around wreaking havoc). However, since the organization seems to be gearing them towards cleaning up certain messes before mass-production and deployment on the main continent (if they weren't concerned about cleaning up the abyssal ones, they would have abandoned the research continent after Alicia and Beth were "completed." plus, they may have that centennial review coming up), Rubel doesn't have a reason to fear them. Even so, it can't be too difficult to disrupt a soul link that isn't as pure as Luchaela. It could certainly be a suicide mission, but you think Rubel wouldn't be able to interfere with the soul link? Who knows, maybe he was even involved in the disruption that caused the Luciela disaster (it would certainly fit his profile to make a few comments to Raphaela to cause her to doubt herself during a soul link trial). Their dual-awakening is probably part of his endgame as regards the shutting down of the organization (they already tried normal sisters. without the knowledge of partial awakening, where can they turn after the failure of twins?). All that matters is the fact that Alicia and Beth aren't really on his radar. Christ, the entire time those two were fighting in the Cognates chapters, Rubel was smiling his ass off. Think about how long it would take for the organization to create more "perfect" weapons like Alicia and Beth (not only do they have to perfectly train them, but they have to wait for more female twins to pop up on the research continent) and how impractical the soul link really is.

Forever_Melody
December 22, 2008, 07:32 AM
Yeah Alicia and Beth may be a "success" in one way, but they aren't a practical success in terms of the war on the main continent. The fact that they need to be a pair of twins already makes it very impractical to use them on a large scale.

The partially Awakened ones, on the other hand, are more disrupting as kaliayev said. They can go over their limit without losing themselves AND they can come back to "normal". Granted, this seems to be iffy as shown how Claire firs tried doing this(at the cost of Jeanne's life), but the possibility is certainly there and it seems to Rubel that if the Organization were to utilize this metho that it just might prove troublesome for the Dragon Kin.

Wowzers
December 22, 2008, 11:58 AM
What the organization really wants would be an Abyssal that stays loyal to the organization without the jury-rigging soul link. Isley, Riful and Luciella seemed to retain their intelligence and personality when they awoke, and they can transform to a human form. If the organization could eliminate the "hunger" the awakened beings have but retain the reasoning intelligence of the individual they may have hit paydirt. They would still have to deal with those that lose their minds but a few would work out. :)

Sportgal1
December 23, 2008, 09:34 PM
That's probably the reason that Rubel is keeping quiet about the half-awakeneds too. it's still pretty amazing that no other handler knows about it. Maybe all the other claymores are just more subtle than clare. miria's handler knows too, so the org might know. I think the partial awakeneds just retain too much commen sense to of much use the org. The AO have a twisted thinking.

kaliayev
January 20, 2009, 04:32 PM
The argument has pretty much been substantiated by the examination of the resources used in the crafting of their weapons. The rest of it, the warring of two separate countries, can still be suspect if we rely solely on Rubel. Even if Rubel is completely lying, the proposition of the existence of the continent has been established as true.

I'm more curious about who is actually winning the war between the countries. It is highly likely that suicide awakenings (heh heh, the organization engages in terrorist tactics) could buy them time. However, for it to be a viable option for more than a decade seems unlikely to me (the DoD are bound to have adapted within that time frame). While we don't really know anything about the war, I like to think that the DoD forces are mostly winning and have conquered a sizable portion of the other side's land.

Wowzers
January 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
The situation is probably pretty stable on the Mainland, if only because if there was pressure to speed up claymore development, there would be a lot of talk about the organization picking up more girls then they used to, maybe even forcefully to get sufficient test subjects.

Oh yeah, and Rutru is a spam bot. Have seen lots of them over time.

kaliayev
January 20, 2009, 09:26 PM
That may be the case, but at the same time, Rubel implies that the DoD are aware of the experiments to develop a controllable and extremely powerful awakened being. If they weren't able to counter the suicide awakenings and the experiments that have been conducted thus far, there would be a lot more pressure on his front (the only pressure came with the discovery of partially awakened beings, who could have all the advantages of the awakened beings without the latter's disadvantages or the disadvantages of the soul link). At this point, Rubel's and the DoD's strategy is to get the other faction to simply resign due to the failures of the organization. This implies that the suicide awakenings and the twins are not enough, or are at least too limited in practicality, for the organization's factions to effectively counter the DoD's forces. Ultimately, the DoD believe that they will win the war, provided mass produced, partially awakened beings don't become the organization's next project. This kind of confidence would be supported by conquering various territories under the other faction's control, while the latter's confidence could be supported even if they lost land, because they believe they are covertly developing forces that will eventually win the war for them. In other words, the other faction's strategy wouldn't really be affected by losses in territory on the continent since the territory that will produce their advantage is on a different continent.

Of course, at the same time, I've made the claim that, if the organization is controlling the "exterminators," Rubel, and thus the DoD, know nothing about them. There's no telling how this would affect the war until we see them fight Isley. If they kick Isley's ass, they could be effectively deployed on the mainland without the DoD having any information on them. In fact, the entire twins project could be an attempt to distract the DoD from the "exterminators," or the "exterminators" could serve as the troops that defend the controller. This would certainly shatter whatever strategies the DoD have in place to counter an invasion by the twins.

p.s. You don't think they have enough subjects? Whenever a girl is orphaned by a yoma attack, the organization pretty much has the right to "adopt" her. Given how many claymores they've created in the past, their supply is more than sufficient for whatever training/hybridization programs they have in place, except in the case of twins, which are quite rare in pre-modern societies.

BlackSwimmer
February 05, 2010, 01:50 AM
i think the war is going to spill over to their island, because that is where they make the claymore swords and the giant dragons will get killed by that new giant abyssal one

HegemonKhan
February 05, 2010, 05:32 AM
while we don't know if any of this is truthful, as it is coming from Rubel, and Miria's own investigation merely resulted in her unable to find a metal/mineral hard enough to be made into the swords on the island.

However, (I just somewhat recently, re-read it and realized I made a mistake in the above comment), Miria also states that she has checked/investigated everything that Rubel told her (that she could check/investigate) and found it all to be accurate. Unfortunately, we don't know what was everything that Rubel told her, which she had checked/investigated and found to be accurate.

here's what the manga has given us: (see below)
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this is taken directly from the (translated) manga and pieced together + my own commentary where needed.

“The Continent”:

“Over one hundred years ago, on a mysterious continent, (HK: containing a mineral so hard that it can never be broken and can cut through anything with enough force), there were never ending battles going on between different countries and people, all for territorial reasons. This continent was not in a state of peace. Than, at about one hundred years ago, the war split into two sides, and began the battle for supremacy.

One side can be considered as the Dragon’s Kins. They’re said to have non-human comrades that have extremely tough skin, and they quickly took control of the battle.

The other side quickly tried to invent new weapons to fight against their enemies. Soon after, the research gave birth to a new weapon, and that is, a weapon that allows a human to turn into a monster. But, because these weapons are too powerful, they often wiped out their own army. So, the research has been left on a small island away from the greater continent. This is the laboratory for awakened beings.

(HK: But, before we discuss about this island....)

They are first thrown onto that battlefield as special soldiers. Soldiers, whose abilities are superhuman in every respect. But, use of their true power is restricted to when they encounter the draconic tribe at the heart of the enemy forces. It is what we call energy release. However, unlike for women, control over this is next to impossible for the men. Almost all warriors go berserk then and there.

The awakened beings’ qualities are a factor too, but basically, that’s how in that place, monsters able to fight the draconic tribe on equal footing are born. Of course, they can’t return to being human. And, because their way of thinking greatly changes with the awakening, it is impossible for them to continue being soldiers as well.

In practice, there are basically none who return to their own troops. Which, is because they simply keep battling the hostile draconic tribe until their lives are consumed. But, actually, they aren’t even suppose to return. They are mere weapons, made to fight to the death. Of course, all of this is not without risk. There are cases where they awaken right next to their own troops or return from hostile territory when injured, only to attack their former allies. That is what this research is for. They are continuing experiments to create controllable awakened beings in these lands.”

-Norihiro Yagi’s Claymore manga

“The Island”:

“Experiments to create controllable awakened beings. Alicia and Beth. They have succeeded in awakening and returning to the human form. We have heard about the completion of Alicia and Beth. But, the facts that they needed something as special as twins to succeed, and that the one keeping consciousness, can be easily targeted if found out, are weak points. This might be a milestone for their research, but it is still far from the kind of perfected warrior that could be used in the actual war.” -Norihiro Yagi’s Claymore manga

But, let me first go back to the arrival of these ten foreigners to our peaceful island and tell the long and tragic story of how they created Alicia and Beth on this small island used as their laboratory for the creation of controllable awakened beings. This begins the dark history of our once peaceful island.

The ten foreigners’ ship arrives across the sea far from the east of some unknown and mysterious continent upon our small peaceful island’s eastern most coast in Staff, city of the far east. The people of Staff mysteriously disappear and are never heard from again shortly thereafter. These ten foreigners make their headquarters there, as it is perfect for them with its rocky and barren landscape with many caves and caverns in the outcrops and underground to do their experiments in secrecy. Unknown to us, the native human inhabitants of this small island, they were creating yomas. These ten foreigners quickly become known as the Organization due to their well organized structure and leadership of their actions.

“In the Organization’s archives, the most suspicious is that there is a report of a village southwest of the Organization headquarters. People within this well hidden village has said that those villagers had a shocked look on their faces when they saw us. It is as if they didn’t know that yoma existed.” -Norihiro Yagi’s Claymore manga

There were ~10 of these foreigners, and were all wearing some form of black clothes. So, they become known as the Black Coats of the Organization. These Black Coats looked human, but something wasn’t quite right about them, inhuman, in fact. (Even to this day, which is quite some time later, ~100 years later, from this moment in the past that we are currently discussing, the original ~10 Black coats that arrived from across the sea still have shown no signs of aging). They spoke of an upper class predator called a yoma that ate humans but the human villagers didn’t know what they were talking about. These Black Coats asked for and gladly took any orphan boys. We gladly gave the orphans away to them as well.

The hundreds of years of peace had ended with the arrival of the Organization, their secret experiments, and the yoma. Our small island was now infested with yoma.

“Soon and quickly, the older generation, whom knew the truth that the yoma came with the arrival of the Organization, of our native human inhabitants had died off or were killed off by the yoma. The younger generation didn’t know better and believed that the superior yoma had always been on this island as predators to us inferior humans.” -loosely paraphrasing Norihiro Yagi’s Claymore manga

Unknown to the native human inhabitants of the island, the Organization was continuing its research now on this small island into the creation of a controllable weapon against the other side, the kins whom had enlisted the dragons’ help against the side of the Organization, back on their home continent far across the sea to the east. Deep inside the caves and caverns of the outcrops and even underground of their headquarters in Staff, the city of the far east, they created their (normal) yomas, male Claymores, male Awakened Beings, male Abyssal One (Isley), female Claymores, female Awakened Beings, female Abyssal Ones, Priscilla, female Half Awakens, female Abyss Feeders/Eaters, and now the Destroyer!
[hr]

my own theories:

1. Rubel is the REAL LEADER of the Organization! He made up all the "dung" about him being a "spy" of this "other side with dragons" on this "mysterious continent across the sea/ocean" to play the Claymores/Ghosts for fools and get trusted by them, so he can more easily manipulate and control them into doing what he wants.

*Rubel wasn't executed when he was "caught" lying by (Rubel's PUPPET fake) leader Rimuto (whom is "dancing" to Rubel's "strings", Rubel told Rimuto to "catch" him of lying in order to keep his identity as the real leader of the Organization secret from the rest of the Organization "Rabble") about the Ophelia+Clare+female AB incident

*Rubel informed Rafaela that he saved her from being executed, since the rest of the Organization "rabble" wanted to blame some one for the embarrasing incident of the failed Luciela+Rafaela+Soul Link attempt which resulted in half of the entire Claymore force killed (including the trainees) and their headquarters in near ruins, instead negotiating she be "banished/exiled" instead. Using information about Luciela's location as blackmail to keep her very obedient as his personal secret Assassin.

When Rubel wanted to find missing/AWOL Clare, after Galatea lied about Clare (and Jean) surviving Dauf and Riful, whom did he use? Rafaela! Rafaela tracked down Clare (and Jean) for him, and was there to "encourage" Clare (and Jean) to go to Pieta if Rubel's blackmail of info about Raki being in the north as well, didn't work on Clare, but it did, and Clare was smart enough to heed Rafaela's "encouragement" as well.

*Rubel pretends he is "being a good spy" and keeping the secret of Half Awakens' existence from the Organization. HAH! Rubel is the CENSORED LEADER of the Organization, and Clare has no CENSORED idea that she is becoming the Organization's "dream come true", a controllable awakened being ultimate weapon, whom only obeys Rubel himself! Clare is becoming into being Rubel's very own ultimate weapon (as if Miria, Galatea, and Rafaela aren't enough for him, lol), and she doesn't even know it! Rubel scares me! If I had a choice between Priscilla and Rubel, I'd take my chances with Priscilla, lol.

*Rubel also negotiates Galatea from being executed after she was caught lying about Clare (and Jean) surviving their encounter with Dauf and Riful by (fake) leader Rimuto, convincing the rest of the Organization "rabble" that Galatea is too useful, and they don't yet have a replacement for her. Rubel "bags" the GOD EYE Galatea into his "pocket". She foolishly trusts him, just like Miria.

*Rubel "informs" Miria with "fake information" that bolsters her conspiracy theories, distrust, and hostility towards the Organization (due to what happened with her friend Hilda, she had sworn revenge on the Organization), knowing it would have this very effect, and result in him being trusted by Miria. Rubel just "bagged" the #1 in leadership, team coordination, and strategist into his "pocket", Miria!

*Rubel allows Galatea to watch Alicia+Beth+Soul Link in action against the incoming 11 ABs of Isley attacking the Organization's headquarters. He "informs/explains to" Galatea about Alicia+Beth+Soul Link, knowing it would push Galatea into going AWOL, and getting her to trust him, just like Miria. Galatea asks about a similar incident with the Soul Link with a rank 1 from a much earlier time that she came across while doing her own snooping around the Organization (Miria wasn't the only one bothered by the Organization). But, Rubel wasn't about to tell Galatea that 2 ranks below her, the rank 5 Rafaela, was the rank 2 younger sister of AO Luciela! No, No. Rafaela is Rubel's own "RIGHT HAND", his personal enforcer, or rather his Assassin. Rafaela whom according to Rubel himself had power as a Claymore equal to her Awakened AO sister Luciela! Rafaela was extremely powerful, and the oldest surviving Claymore. Rafaela hunted down rank 2 Quick Sword Irene without a single moment of worry. Irene and her Quick Sword was nothing compared to Rafaela. Rafaela was more powerful then AO Luciela! Rafaela (when Rubel used her to track them down and send them off to Pieta) saw Clare's demonstration of being able to control her Quick Sword to Jean, and wasn't in the slightest bit impressed. She should have yawned, lol.

*Rubel created Clare, his own personal ULTIMATE WEAPON. He was the one Clare "happened" to find and demand he put Teresa's flesh into her body in order to become a Claymore. Rubel intentionally pushed Clare and set her up into dangerous situtations or missions which would force her to become more and more powerful. When, Clare was a trainee, whom stepped in and put a stop to the sparring between trainee Clare and the other trainee Claymore? Rubel. He didn't want his precious Clare to get any more injured. Rubel goaded Clare about Priscilla, saying, ~"Our current ranks 1 (Alicia) and 2 (beth) are quite powerful. Every generation has its heroes. Too bad it isn't you!", and then Rubel assigns her to kill a troublesome Ophelia and a former single digit female AB (rank 5/6 Elda from Teresa's "Era"?) at the same time. He of course doesn't tell Clare, that Awakened-HATING Ophelia will immediately smell her Half Awakened scent, and go hostile on her, forcing her to "conveniently" kill the "troublesome/psycho" Ophelia. Well, Rubel saw that he had mistaken Clare's power, and she was going to get killed by Ophelia! I wouldn't put it past Rubel to actually know where Irene was hiding, and to have gone to her and asked her to save Clare from Ophelia, by using the blackmail that she'd recognize Teresa's scent if she did (and then recognize that Clare is the little human girl whom was with Teresa and took in her flesh becoming the Claymore she is now). Though, this doesn't work out too well, as Rubel has quite a while ago, already assigned Rafaela to find and assassinate Irene for him.

*Rubel uses Clare to retrieve or "awaken" the half merged bodies of Rafaela+Luciela from Riful for him. To Rubel's delight, Clare does exactly this for him, resulting in her "Awakening" the Destroyer, and gaining more "power" from Rafaela transfering her mind into Clare's head and possibly from the Destroyer itself too. Rubel rubs his hands together in glee, "Yes, make my ultimate weapon Clare more powerful! muhahahaha! Also, now I can send Dae and the retrieval unit to fetch flesh from the Destroyer, for further experiments! Muhahahaha!"

*Rubel is seen NO WHERE near Teresa, for good reason... Rubel is NOT stupid. NO NO. He wants to stay far far far far away from Teresa. Rubel knows better then to try to mess with/try to manipulate/control Teresa. Notice how Rubel finally shows up in the "Teresa arc" of the manga ONLY AFTER Teresa is dead and Clare is looking for the Organization with Teresa's decapitated head in her arms, lol!

*okay... i'm getting tired... so i'm going to stop with with my Rubel LEADER theory.

2. my sword theory:

I think the swords actually are NOT made out of a metal/mineral, nor come from this possibly fake rumor Rubel has spread of a "mysterious continent". This would explain why Miria hasn't found this metal/mineral on the island.

I believe that the swords are actually made from the awakened beings. maybe their skin/hides or their claws/nails/horns/teeth/bones. Miria was looking for the wrong materials to make the swords!