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Yans86
January 03, 2009, 08:14 AM
Am I the only one to think that GJ in released state is stronger than a Noitora in released state?????
I know that GJ is 6 and Noitora is 5,but for what I've seen,I don't see all this difference in power between the two.
Also,Noitora released state doesn't give him such a great improvement in power for what we have seen......what do u think?

kkck
January 03, 2009, 01:14 PM
I have always been a big fan of grimmjow and have actually given this a lot of thought. If we go by the numbers it is very clear that noitora is the stronger one. On the other handif we go by plot and what what was shown grimmjow appears to be the stronger one.
Given nooitora's flashback it is posible to climb up positions within the espada so it is posible that grimmjow was in need of a promotion lol. Personaly I think that grimmjow and noitora are at the same level but then again, the numbers....

Yans86
January 03, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yeah that's it,like Luppi....I wouldn't say he is even at Yammi level,but he took position 6 just to have his ass kicked in one blow by GJ,,,

Forever_Melody
January 03, 2009, 11:32 PM
Well the gap in between each number is not given and perhaps is not a consistent factor. For example, we saw the gap between 6 and 4 to be somewhat significant as shown in Ulquiorra vs Grimmjow, but perhaps the gap between 2 and 3 or the gap between 7 and 8 isn't that big. There isn't a set benchmark between the numbers, only that the higher number should be stronger. The manga does not say HOW much stronger, simply stronger. Therefore, Grimmjow might be quite close to Nnoitora in strength.

Also note that Grimmjow is a speed demon in his released state while Nnoitora has not really shown many feats of speed.

Onomatopoeia
January 04, 2009, 12:00 AM
Isn't GJ looking stronger kind of a given. I mean GJ got a lot longer to show off his stats.

Having said that my main belief for Nnoitra is that he's got a lot of swordsmanship ability and his Hierro is pretty strong but GJ has shown more power and speed.

My opinion on the matter: Experience gives Nnoitra the edge.

Eddy01741
March 11, 2009, 11:03 PM
I have to say, from what we've seen, it's almost undeniable that Grimmjow is the better overall fighter. He's clearly faster and a better all around fighter. However, Noitora has the pure power that is greater than normal (non-kendo) kenpachi w/o his eyepatch, which is a very notable feat. He also is claimed to have the strongest hierro of the espada. So while perhaps Grimmjow might be quicker and be an overall better fighter, perhaps none of Grimmjow's attacks could pierce Noitora's hierro, or none of them could overpower the attacks of Noitora, making Noitora better than him one on one.

I personally like to think that Grimmjow is better, he's got great speed as well as still good power behind his attacks, he also varies his attacks up (ceros, gran rey ceros, desligarron as well as his unreleased form sword strikes and his hand to hand combat in his released form). However, he might lose to Noitora in a one on one simply by sheer power.

Raizen
March 12, 2009, 05:27 PM
Noitora can keep regrowing his arms if they are chopped off. And from what we have seen grim's last technique is kido-ish. And we saw noitora take a cero times 2 at full blast and had no scratch
Grim is cooler but its obvious the noitora is stronger

Eddy01741
March 12, 2009, 06:19 PM
Ah, remembering now that he can regrow his arms, I'm actually gonna have to agree with Raizen, in terms of the 4 parts of shinigami combat, here is how I see it:

Kidou (or like abilities, ie desligarron, cero, etc.): Grimmjow> Noitora
Footwork Techniques (speed using sonido): Grimmjow>Noitora
Hand-Hand Combat: Grimmjow>Noitora (Grimmjow has no weapons except for his abilities in his release, while Noitora has up to six scythes in it)
Zanjetsu (swordsmenship): Noitora>Grimmjow

However, Noitora doesn't need any extra speed if Grimmjow's attacks couldn't pierce his tough hierro anyways, he also doesn't need kidou or hand to hand since his zanjetsu is so great and that's where the bulk of his attacks come from.

So I'm gonna say that Noitora would win in a one on one fight, but Grimmjow is a much better rounded fighter.

I personally like Grimmjow more anyways.

WaveBossa
March 12, 2009, 09:00 PM
Just look at how far Nnotoria pushed kenpachi.

Look at how well he did against Nel.

Look at how he just laughs at cero/kidou type attacks.

Look at his number.

Please, I think kenpachi could 1 shot grimmjaw with one arm and one eye patched up. He couldn't do that to nnotoria.

I'm not just going by numbers, Nnotoria is was a menace

ryanzokuken
March 12, 2009, 10:00 PM
Eddy said it best.

Grimm is a much faster, more skillful, and certainly a much smarter fighter.

but Noitora would still probably edge out the win due to his higher strength, reiatsu, hard-ass hierro that Grimm would have trouble getting through (maybe his elbow bullets and descardon might be able to wound Noitora, but i doubt his regular claws and kicks would, and his ruthless no-rules no-honor fighting style, Noi would probably win.

but then again, Grimm, as mentioned, is very "street smart" and might be able to pull off a win with some trickery or intelligent tactics.

mestizo311
March 13, 2009, 07:49 AM
The strongest of the two is obviously Noitora. Why?? Cuz Aizen said so. Aizen made everything much simpler in Hueco Mundo. He was smart enough to have a ranking system. So, when comparing Espada strengths, the ranking say's it all (only 1-10). If that isn't enough to convince you, just look back at Grimmjow's provocation towards Ulquiorra. It would be obvious that Ulquiorra would have tore his ass apart, considering the show he put on for Ichigo. So why did Grimmjow think he still had a chance? Cuz he didn't trust Aizen's word!!!

Dice
March 13, 2009, 01:52 PM
Mhh I don't know if the number should make it that obvious (especially you should always consider the abilities). Just imagine that Noitora was the replacement for the deceased fifth espada like Luppi was for Grimmjaw.

But I have to agree with Eddie and co..

mestizo311
March 14, 2009, 10:57 AM
I thought Noitora was made #5 after Aizen had used the Hougyokou(?) on him, thus making him more powerful than the time we saw him with Nel. As for the whole Luppi replacement, I can't really argue with that. Mostly because I hated Luppi as a character. I am a big Grimmjow fan and the fact that some metrosexual arrancar took his spot, still pisses me off. In terms of being the most well rounded fighter, I would have to say it goes to Grimmjow. However, that doesn't mean shit when your opponent has 6 arms and can block just about every attack you throw at him. Then while he's blocking your attack, he'll carve your ass up like a turkey with his schyth's. Noitora looks like a one dimensional fighter but that alone will be enough for any Espada 6-10.

ryanzokuken
March 14, 2009, 07:33 PM
when Noitora was shown with Nel, the hougyoku had already been used on him.

he wasn't a natural arrancar, he became an arrancar through Aizen's use of the hougyoku.

he probably rose through the ranks due to continued fighting and experience, increasing his power over time. or maybe they train? or continue to eat other hollows? i dunno.


as for Grimmjow's confidence regarding a fight with Ulquiorra, i'd say it's probably more just him mind-gaming than anything. Ulquiorra's all about absolutes, straight forward stats and observations.

Grimmjow's ferocity, confident, unorthodox, and "street smart" demeanor and fighting style probably throw Ulquiorra off. he thinks he knows what to expect but then he ends up being surprised.

he's obviously much higher in power, but Grimm still managed to get the best of him in their little quarrel with unpredictable, smart fighting and a smart surprise usage of the little cube thing.

a real fight between the two would probably be similar. Grimmjow doing unexpectedly well due to his relentless ferocity, unpredictable, unorthodox ways, and his "street smarts". (some might say he sometimes fights dirty and/or uses trickery). in the end, Ulq would probably completely overwhelm and crush him, but i personally think Grimm could do pretty well and manage to hurt Ulq at least a little bit.

kkck
March 14, 2009, 08:14 PM
when Noitora was shown with Nel, the hougyoku had already been used on him.

he wasn't a natural arrancar, he became an arrancar through Aizen's use of the hougyoku.

he probably rose through the ranks due to continued fighting and experience, increasing his power over time. or maybe they train? or continue to eat other hollows? i dunno.


as for Grimmjow's confidence regarding a fight with Ulquiorra, i'd say it's probably more just him mind-gaming than anything. Ulquiorra's all about absolutes, straight forward stats and observations.

Grimmjow's ferocity, confident, unorthodox, and "street smart" demeanor and fighting style probably throw Ulquiorra off. he thinks he knows what to expect but then he ends up being surprised.

he's obviously much higher in power, but Grimm still managed to get the best of him in their little quarrel with unpredictable, smart fighting and a smart surprise usage of the little cube thing.

a real fight between the two would probably be similar. Grimmjow doing unexpectedly well due to his relentless ferocity, unpredictable, unorthodox ways, and his "street smarts". (some might say he sometimes fights dirty and/or uses trickery). in the end, Ulq would probably completely overwhelm and crush him, but i personally think Grimm could do pretty well and manage to hurt Ulq at least a little bit.

But we saw noitora as an arrancar years before aizen got the orb, at least that was was the flashback heavily implied, specially the part about nel being missing for several years. Through the grand fisher incident, we saw aizen was able to artificially create arrancar (by literally ripping the mask off), so at least the way I see it, there are other artificial means to transform them.

I think grimmow could fight on even ground in a fight against ulquiorra while they dont release their swords, once both of them release, grimmjow gets owned.

As for the thread, I would like to say grimmjow wins but given the ranks shown, I doubt he will pull it off. Although, I dont think there was that much diference between them, I would say both of them would be pushed to their limits. Also in their released forms, grimmjow has greater range than nnoitora, he can shot the elbow missiles, and has desgarron, which according to grimmjow is even greater than his gran rey cero.

ryanzokuken
March 15, 2009, 01:04 PM
well either way, in one of the flashbacks with Noitora and Nel, while talking to her, he said that Aizen allowed him to become stronger than he could have on his own (something like that. i might be a bit off) and for that, he was greatful to Aizen.

so whatever Aizen did to power Noitora up, it had already been done back then.

Gecko Moria
March 17, 2009, 02:29 AM
Although I'm a bigger fan of Grimmjow than Nnoitora, the rank numbers are present. Nnoitra has greater defense as proven by his resistance to many of Kenpachi's (and Ichigo's) attacks. And while in his released state he can regenerate his arms, which, when paired with his already incredible defense will be difficult to get through (Kenpachi is just too powerful :P). And I assume that Grimmjow's strongest attack "Desgarrón" won't be able to pierce Nnoitra's hierro since Ichigo was able to deflect them even when he was exhausted (though it took a ton of effort). However, while Nnoitra probably has greater defense. more deadly attacks etc. Grimmjow, I think, outmatches in speed. As we have seen Grimmjow's attack are quite fast while Nnoitra's huge zanpakto is extremely deadly and powerful but heavy and slow.

Raizen
March 25, 2009, 06:00 PM
Grim may have flashy techniques and speed etc, it won't do any good if he can't harm noitora. If a double cero didn't even flinch him, then grim is out of options. I like grim but noitora would turn him to mince meat

kkck
March 25, 2009, 06:06 PM
Grim may have flashy techniques and speed etc, it won't do any good if he can't harm noitora. If a double cero didn't even flinch him, then grim is out of options. I like grim but noitora would turn him to mince meat

Double cero did pinch him though if I recall.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/292/06/
I dont think the difference between the two is that great, but yeah, I think in the end nnoitora would win.

Forever_Melody
March 25, 2009, 06:16 PM
Nnoitora has loads more defensive power than Grimmjow though. Grimmjow was slashed by Ichigo's bare sword, while Kenpachi had trouble slashing Nnoitora(mind you Nell did quite easily so that begs to wonder if Nell is at Kenpachi's level O_o).

Also note that Ichigo was able to block AND break Desgarron with his bare blade as well >.>

Raizen
March 25, 2009, 06:47 PM
Double cero did pinch him though if I recall.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/292/06/
I dont think the difference between the two is that great, but yeah, I think in the end nnoitora would win.
He may be scratched but he barely seemed fazed. And Melody brings up excellent points

~Joshua~
April 26, 2009, 08:24 AM
If Grimmjow was somehow able to combat Ulquiorra, I don't think that he is going to have much trouble with Nnoitra. Grimmjow seems to be more flexible strength-wise, i'd give it to me.

Raizen
April 30, 2009, 03:58 PM
If Grimmjow was somehow able to combat Ulquiorra, I don't think that he is going to have much trouble with Nnoitra. Grimmjow seems to be more flexible strength-wise, i'd give it to me.
Grimjow didn't do anything againt ulqui. Ulqui underestimated him and grim was being pushed to the limit by ulqui. His had to sacrifice his arm to trap ulqui.
he won't have the same situation with noitora. I don't see many if any of grim's techniques that can hurt noitora lethally.

~Joshua~
April 30, 2009, 04:27 PM
Grimjow didn't do anything againt ulqui. Ulqui underestimated him and grim was being pushed to the limit by ulqui. His had to sacrifice his arm to trap ulqui.
he won't have the same situation with noitora. I don't see many if any of grim's techniques that can hurt noitora lethally.

I believe Desayuno is enough to do damage to Nnoitora. Grimmjow has a flexible fighting style. His combination of Gran Ray Cero with his regular blows should be enough to take Nnoitra on and win.

Raizen
May 01, 2009, 03:08 PM
I believe Desayuno is enough to do damage to Nnoitora. Grimmjow has a flexible fighting style. His combination of Gran Ray Cero with his regular blows should be enough to take Nnoitra on and win.
Do see that cero being stronger than a double cero?? Also, note that noitaora took that on barely scathe even b4 he released

~Joshua~
May 01, 2009, 03:58 PM
Do see that cero being stronger than a double cero?? Also, note that noitaora took that on barely scathe even b4 he released

Does the term "double" cero refer to the physical amount of the attack, or the power it contains?

kkck
May 01, 2009, 04:14 PM
Does the term "double" cero refer to the physical amount of the attack, or the power it contains?

Doubl cero means behind the attack there is the power of an absorbed cero and the power of her own cero which she added to it. I don't think there is anything more to the meaning considering it would depend on how much power nel adds and how much power she absorbed.

Raizen
May 01, 2009, 04:17 PM
Does the term "double" cero refer to the physical amount of the attack, or the power it contains?
Just think of a cero times 2 in power.
If a cero can break ichi;s getsuga, then a double cero can heavily damage grim, and yet noitora took it w/o much damage even in unreleased form

~Joshua~
May 01, 2009, 04:46 PM
Just think of a cero times 2 in power.
If a cero can break ichi;s getsuga, then a double cero can heavily damage grim, and yet noitora took it w/o much damage even in unreleased form

Thanks. I just re-read where Nell uses it. If unreleased Nnoitra can take that and look like it didn't hurt him (even though his clothes were a mess :darn), then I think he just might be able to pull it off against Grimmjow.

choke_a_beech
May 09, 2009, 03:21 AM
grim and espada lower (6-10) are useless arrancar who think they're powerful enough to play with the big boys (1-5) despite being given lower numbers.:eyeroll seriously, arrancar are so arrogant - zommari claiming to be the fastest when barragan moves quicker than soi fon (much quicker than buyakuguh) or grimmjow trying to smack ulq when the gap between them is huge.

sorry some of the espada piss me off due to their stupidity.

answer to the question - noitora for sure. destructive vs a litte pussy.....cat

~Joshua~
May 10, 2009, 02:54 PM
grim and espada lower (6-10) are useless arrancar who think they're powerful enough to play with the big boys (1-5) despite being given lower numbers.:eyeroll seriously, arrancar are so arrogant - zommari claiming to be the fastest when barragan moves quicker than soi fon (much quicker than buyakuguh) or grimmjow trying to smack ulq when the gap between them is huge.

sorry some of the espada piss me off due to their stupidity.

answer to the question - noitora for sure. destructive vs a litte pussy.....cat

What would lead you to believe that Soi Fon is faster than Byakuya? Every character in Bleach other than people such as Ukitake, Shunsui and even Orihime have a little arrogance to their name.

choke_a_beech
May 10, 2009, 06:57 PM
soi fon gave yoruichi (i think she's faster than Aizen) more trouble in terms of speed, than byu ever did.

ryanzokuken
May 10, 2009, 07:01 PM
Barragan isn't moving faster than Soi Fon, he's slowing her down by aging parts of her when her attacks get close and when they touch.

and obviously Grimmjow's arrogance towards Ulq wasn't unwarranted. he survived Ulq's attacks with nothing more than a burn, got him exactly where he wanted him and trapped him with the negacion cube.

Grimmjow 1, Ulq 0

choke_a_beech
May 10, 2009, 07:03 PM
i never said barragan was faster than soi fon. also there is a reason why ulq is number 4 and grim 6. there must be a gap between them, of any kind. ulq must be better than grim in some way - i'm guessing in terms of power, strength and speed.

ryanzokuken
May 10, 2009, 07:10 PM
What would lead you to believe that Soi Fon is faster than Byakuya? Every character in Bleach other than people such as Ukitake, Shunsui and even Orihime have a little arrogance to their name.

because Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, and Soi Fon kept up with Yoruichi perfectly throughout their fight.



grim and espada lower (6-10) are useless arrancar who think they're powerful enough to play with the big boys (1-5) despite being given lower numbers.:eyeroll seriously, arrancar are so arrogant - zommari claiming to be the fastest when barragan moves quicker than soi fon (much quicker than buyakuguh) or grimmjow trying to smack ulq when the gap between them is huge.

sorry some of the espada piss me off due to their stupidity.

answer to the question - noitora for sure. destructive vs a litte pussy.....cat

yes you did.

choke_a_beech
May 10, 2009, 07:12 PM
actually no barragan is faster than soi fon. remember in the latest chapter, he was a distance away and he suddenly appeared past her touching her arm, and her face had completely surprised.

Raizen
May 13, 2009, 01:22 PM
grim and espada lower (6-10) are useless arrancar who think they're powerful enough to play with the big boys (1-5) despite being given lower numbers.:eyeroll seriously, arrancar are so arrogant - zommari claiming to be the fastest when barragan moves quicker than soi fon (much quicker than buyakuguh) or grimmjow trying to smack ulq when the gap between them is huge.

sorry some of the espada piss me off due to their stupidity.

answer to the question - noitora for sure. destructive vs a litte pussy.....cat
Zommari has shown he is the fastest in terms of sonido. What other espada can move that fast and create that many afterimages??
As for soifon being slower than barragan. that is b.c he is slowing her down with his ability, the ability over time/age
[hr]

What would lead you to believe that Soi Fon is faster than Byakuya? Every character in Bleach other than people such as Ukitake, Shunsui and even Orihime have a little arrogance to their name.
What do u mean by arrogance in their name??
As for soifon being faster than byakuya, I think she is. remeber she trained herself to be exactly like youruichi, and youruichi excel in speed. however the difference between teh speed of soifon and byakuya is not that big IMO

First Supervillain
May 13, 2009, 01:32 PM
1. 5 is a lower number than 6
2. Kenpachi had to warm up before he cut Nnoitra, a getsuga Tensho from Ichigo pre-Vizard scarred Grimmjow. A big scar that pretty much would illicit ouch if you saw it at the beach
3. Nnoitra says "You barely beat him, and I'm stronger".
4. Nnoitra has the strongest heirro of the Espada and Ichigo had trouble cutting Ulquiorra Unreleased.

Wow, its such a difficult decision - NOT!

-Ren Boy-
May 13, 2009, 03:35 PM
actually no barragan is faster than soi fon. remember in the latest chapter, he was a distance away and he suddenly appeared past her touching her arm, and her face had completely surprised.

Maybe Because Barragan Has The Ability To Play With Time

He Most Proberly Slowed Down Time And Moved Towards Soi Fong And Then Resumed Time.

choke_a_beech
May 14, 2009, 05:23 AM
if he has that power, that means he IS the fastest. the dude can manipulate/slow down time!!!

Xanathos
May 25, 2009, 01:27 PM
I'll stick to the numbers here. Since Noitora is 5 I believe he can beat Grimmjaw.

kkck
May 25, 2009, 02:53 PM
I'll stick to the numbers here. Since Noitora is 5 I believe he can beat Grimmjaw.

I guess that makes sense... I still think grimmjow was a much better fighter though. He had several powerful attacks which would allow him to go long range and he had beast like movements which made him deadly at close range.

Aonsaithya
May 25, 2009, 03:04 PM
4. Nnoitra has the strongest heirro of the Espada and Ichigo had trouble cutting Ulquiorra Unreleased.

Then again, according to himself Noitora is also the strongest espada ever.

kkck
May 25, 2009, 03:12 PM
Then again, according to himself Noitora is also the strongest espada ever.

Also, according to ulquiorra, nnoitora should not be able to regenerate. I know this has little to do with what you said, I just felt like pointing this out...

En Yang Ji
May 25, 2009, 03:33 PM
Ulquiorra may have meant that no Espada except himself has the level of regenerative abilities he does.

kkck
May 25, 2009, 03:51 PM
Ulquiorra may have meant that no Espada except himself has the level of regenerative abilities he does.

Ulquiorra could regenerate anything as long as it was not vital organs. That basically means a few wounds and his arms and legs. Nnoitora could regenerate his arms. Unless nnoitora could not regenerate his legs, I fail to see how ulquiorra would actually be better lol.

Aonsaithya
May 25, 2009, 04:16 PM
Ulquiorra may have meant that no Espada except himself has the level of regenerative abilities he does.

Indeed, Ulquiorra's regenerative abilities are likely superior to the other Espada.

Noitora's regenerative abilities were a part of his release (mantis, insects, regeneration etc) while Ulquiorra could very quickly regenerate his eye (apparently) without releasing.

Raizen
May 26, 2009, 07:38 PM
Then again, according to himself Noitora is also the strongest espada ever.
He wanted to be considered the strongest but what he stated was that he had the strongest skin. Which we have found to be true

ninjabot
May 26, 2009, 09:12 PM
Grimmjow takes the win due to greater mobility and more powerful long-range options. There's no need to endure the enemies strikes when they literally can't touch you. And Noitorra WILL try to take Grimmjow's blows.

Unless we're going to assume Noitorra can move at bankai Ichigo's base speed. Noitorra took a direct hit from a double Cero, but not all Cero are the same strength. And the tier of Cero power goes:

Bala < Cero < Double Cero < Gran Rey Cero < Cero Oscuras

He blocked a double Cero...I don't see him blocking a Gran Rey, the most powerful normal Cero. Cero Oscuras was Ulqiorra's signiture Cero, so his doesn't count.

Then there's Desgarron. I see Grim slicing right through those spears as easily as Kenpachi did. And while Grim's Hierro isn't as tough as Noitorra's, it isn't weak. Grimmjow was struck by a vizardized Ichigo. The same Vizardized Ichigo who knocked down Ulqiorra with his full power Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou.

Onomatopoeia
May 26, 2009, 10:43 PM
Unless we're going to assume Noitorra can move at bankai Ichigo's base speed.  Noitorra took a direct hit from a double Cero, but not all Cero are the same strength.  And the tier of Cero power goes:

Bala < Cero <  Double Cero < Gran Rey Cero < Cero Oscuras

He blocked a double Cero...I don't see him blocking a Gran Rey, the most powerful normal Cero.  Cero Oscuras was Ulqiorra's signiture Cero, so his doesn't count.
I don't mind the rest of your reasoning but I don't get how you got this powerscale of Cero's.

We don't know whether a Double Cero is weaker or stronger then a Gran Rey Cero, sure we know a GRC is the strongest normal cero(which is brought into question by Ulqui's Cero Oscura but it's a special Cero as you pointed out) but a Double Cero isn't a normal cero, it's Nel's "special" signature Cero. In all likelyhood GJ knows that a GRC is stronger then a normal Cero(singular) but he shouldn't have any knowledge on a Double Cero(which is the power of 2 Cero's, plural).

And since a double Cero isn't a normal Cero it shouldn't be put under the same category as a normal Cero.

kkck
May 26, 2009, 11:32 PM
I guess it depends on who is using cero lol. Hollow ichigo overpowered cero oscuras with an apparently normal cero. Also, we have really no ground whatsoever to assume gran rey cero is actually weaker or stronger than cero oscuras. Sure, cero oscuras basically destroyed masked ichigo while ichigo with his mask was unaffected by gran rey cero but considering the difference between unreleased grimmjow and released ulquiorra, I doubt the comparison is actually fair.

I would say if two beings of the same power use cero oscuras and gran rey cero against each other, GRC would win considering it was GRC and not cero oscuras which was banned from las noches.

ninjabot
May 27, 2009, 07:46 PM
Yeah, that's why I stated "not all Cero are the same strength". A gillian menos launching a Cero wouldn't be the same as a Vastrolorde firing a Cero. Likewise, I should've said "Nel's Double Cero", to be more accurate.

Noitora's Cero, which Kenpachi deflected bare handed + Nel's Cero, which wasn't as strong as it could've been because she was still unreleased at that point. The combined power should only be about the same strength as Noitora's normal Cero, but with a smidge more power on it (not exactly double the power, because Nel didn't use the same amount of power that Noitora did, or else he would've been damaged).

Likewise, I say that Ulqiorra's Cero Oscuras is on another level because he is waaaaaaaaay ahead of Noitora and Grimmjow in destructive power whenever using Segunda Etappa. Thus I should'nt even have included it in the analysis.

Anyway, Grimmjow wins. His Desgarron is considerably stronger than his Gran Rey anyway (Vaizardized Ichigo swatted through the Gran Rey, but struggled with Desgarron before breaking it...if I remember correctly).

Onomatopoeia
May 27, 2009, 09:15 PM
Noitora's Cero, which Kenpachi deflected bare handed + Nel's Cero, which wasn't as strong as it could've been because she was still unreleased at that point. The combined power should only be about the same strength as Noitora's normal Cero, but with a smidge more power on it (not exactly double the power, because Nel didn't use the same amount of power that Noitora did, or else he would've been damaged).
What proof do you have that it's only a bit above Nnoitra's normal Cero?

Again what proof is there that GCR> Double Cero. Kenpachi deflecting barehanded doesn't mean much since has monstrous Reaitsu and not only that Kenpachi never got the chance to deal with a GCR so we don't know what would happen if he did.

He actually was damaged. Besides what does that have anything to do with this? We all know his Hierro is extremely strong.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/292/06/

Whatever as long as we agree that GJ would win.

Raizen
June 02, 2009, 11:54 PM
Want a simple explanation:
Look at teh espada numbers. Not much of a debate

Pavitre
November 16, 2009, 06:55 AM
Always had a feeling that grimm is more powerful than nnoitora, what do you guys think?
Okay in this fight plz dont use the espada no's to judge who's stronger cause then by that automatically nnoitora would be stronger, in this fight there's no number to be used as base.
They are just two numberless arrancars duking it out
Now we've seen all that they can do, the whole extent of their powers

Also in this fight we'll assume that they dont know about each other's released forms, dont ask me why just let it be like that.


Oh sorry guys, just found out that this thread's been made already, so no need to answer it again
Sorry for the inconvenience