Kimimaro vs Gai

[shinsengumi]

they have no informaion on each other.area is the place where kimimaro fought lee+gaara.kimimaro has CS and doesn't suffer from his illness.who takes it?

[ninjabot]

I'm going with Kimimaro, if only because his bones are likened to tempered steel. In the event that Gai CAN break his bones, Kimimaro can simply grow more in the place of said broken bones. Then there's CS and the fact that he has no disease.

Gai would have to find a way to attack Kimi in an unorthodox manner that he can't read, or else he's just gonna make bones appear out of every targeted part of his body the way he started to do with Lee.

[shinsengumi]

I think Gai would easly find an attack pattern that kimimaro can't read.Gai is much better than lee+drunken lee in every way they have.even if kimimaro grows bones all over his body,gai would easly break them(not so easly maybe).and he needs to grow those bones at the speed of light to counter all of gai's attacks.
lee http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Lee2.gif Gai http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Gai.gif

About the CS-->back then lee hadn't fully recovered from the fight with gaara that he didn't activate any of the eight Celestial Gates.i believe 6 gates activated Gai owns CS activated Kimimaro but it's like %51 to %49.it would be a formidable battle with close chances for each side

[Forever_Melody]

Kimimaro's taijutsu skills combined with his bloodline are probably among the best hand-to-hand combo we've seen so far. The ability to poke bones out of any place in his body would be enough to deceive even the Sharingan IMO, let alone a taijutsu master like Lee or Gai(seeing as both Lee and Kimi commented on how the style itself is unpredictable).

Kimimaro's ability to read taijutsu is also top notch, rivaling Lee's and possibly Gai's. The only thing Kimi was unable to read was the Drunken Fist, but the whole point of that style is that it cannot be read and Kimi was actually doing a decent job at countering the Drunken Fist for a while.

Also, as ninjabot said, Kimi's bones can turn as hard & dense as steel(if not harder IIRC), making them formidable offense and specifically defense. Kimimaro's resilience itself is something. Remember the kick for Lee's Omote Renge was stopped by Kimimaro's rib bones alone. The guy was also able to walk out of Gaara's Sabaku Kyuu(yeah, walk out of it) and he is able to break out of it(when in CS2) without much sign of injury. Also, Orochimaru note here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/216/16/) that the Kaguya's bones can resist any type of physical attack.

Therefore, I'd assume that nothing short of the Kaimon Gates can really hurt Kimimaro. Now, if you add in that, I'm fairly certain Gai(who as far as we know can open more gates than Lee) could outpace and overpower Kimimaro.

Of course, it'd be a close fight as you said, but the Kaimon Gates make me want to give Gai an edge. It's probably the only weapon in the taijutsu world which could harm Kimi's bloodline.

[DarkManSharingan32]

Kimimaro survived the most destuctive of Gaara's jutsu with his Bones+CS combination. Re-reading those chapters I still can't believe he was able to stand up against that as well as the TONS of pressure he felt from being sucked that far into the ground.

That being said.... does Gai have an attack that could attack with that much pure force. I have no idea... but it's gonna take far more than a flaming Peacock attack to do it...

And there's the fact that Kimimaro Dance of the Pine makes taijutsu nearly impossible against him. I mean... where do you find an opening to attack a bone-spiked opponent?

I think Kimimaro takes it in a long drawn out battle if Gai has any respect for his life....

But if Gai feels content on dying to protect his village or something... Gai uses all 8 Gates, and removes Kimi's head or something. lol

[Raizen]

Form the lee vs kimi fight, we can tell that lee was not even close to his full strength and yet he was able to catch kimi off guard a couple time. Add that in with thef act that gaara mentioned that lee's speed was not as quick as b4 means that gai who is faster and stronger than lee would have much more chances to hit kimi. Kimi is definitely a powerful ninja and his rock hard bones are the ultimate counter to taijutsu, but gai isn't just any taijutsu user, he is the best. No one is close to him in that field. IMo, with the gates against CS, gai would win. The repeated impact to the areas of teh bones would eventually break kimi

[DarkManSharingan32]

Form the lee vs kimi fight, we can tell that lee was not even close to his full strength and yet he was able to catch kimi off guard a couple time. Add that in with thef act that gaara mentioned that lee's speed was not as quick as b4 means that gai who is faster and stronger than lee would have much more chances to hit kimi. Kimi is definitely a powerful ninja and his rock hard bones are the ultimate counter to taijutsu, but gai isn't just any taijutsu user, he is the best. No one is close to him in that field. IMo, with the gates against CS, gai would win. The repeated impact to the areas of teh bones would eventually break kimi

I think alot of this post is propaganda. If we look at purely the manga I would contest that Kimimaro is the most dominant Taijutsu user showcased in the manga so far.
(Gai has only fought... what, twice? And he was getting pwnd by a 30% Kisame clone before he opened the 6TH gate to finally get the upperhand?)

We've seen strength, speed and godly endurance out of Kimimaro... and that was back when he was a teenager.

Suiken worked on Kimimaro because the attacks were random and sporadic i.e. he could not predict them.


All Kimimaro has to really do is survive until he gets an opportunity. Then much like Gaara vs. Lee... Kimimaro capitalizes on the back end of a high speed combination that doesn't quite put Kimi down for the count.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/
This is what Kimi did with no CS against Lee's Omote Renge.

AND we know from experience that Gai doesn't use his Gates combos until he is cornered or in a bit of trouble... But with the lethality of Kimi's attacks, how long does Gai really have?

[En Yang Ji]

I think alot of this post is propaganda. If we look at purely the manga I would contest that Kimimaro is the most dominant Taijutsu user showcased in the manga so far.
(Gai has only fought... what, twice? And he was getting pwnd by a 30% Kisame clone before he opened the 6TH gate to finally get the upperhand?)

We've seen strength, speed and godly endurance out of Kimimaro... and that was back when he was a teenager.

Suiken worked on Kimimaro because the attacks were random and sporadic i.e. he could not predict them.


All Kimimaro has to really do is survive until he gets an opportunity. Then much like Gaara vs. Lee... Kimimaro capitalizes on the back end of a high speed combination that doesn't quite put Kimi down for the count.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/
This is what Kimi did with no CS against Lee's Omote Renge.

AND we know from experience that Gai doesn't use his Gates combos until he is cornered or in a bit of trouble... But with the lethality of Kimi's attacks, how long does Gai really have?

I don't think Gai was pwnd. The Kisame clone only got one hit in and than guy opened the gates and killed him.

I think Gai would win. It's true that Gai probably wouldn't use the gates unless
he was pressured, but the same goes with Kimimiaro. Kimimaro didn't use CS until he needed it.

Even if Kimimaro used CS2, I don't see him winning, unless he got a lethal hit on Gai before he opened the gates. Once Gai opens the gates, Kimimaro probably won't be able to react fast enough to defend himself.

Putting bone directly under his skin wouldn't work against Gai either.
Kimimaro doesn't have a shield of bone under his skin all the time and only used it as a defense against Gaara's sand jutsu's.

Kimimaro wouldn't know that the gates would increase Gai's speed so much until he was attacked, so he would have no reason to defend in that way. The only way I see Kimimaro using his bones to shield himself from Gai's attacks is if he is fast enough to react to Gai.

With his first attack, using the gates, Gai could finish the battle. So, even if Kimimaro seen Gai's speed, he would have lost before he could put up a defense.

[Raizen]

I think alot of this post is propaganda. If we look at purely the manga I would contest that Kimimaro is the most dominant Taijutsu user showcased in the manga so far.
(Gai has only fought... what, twice? And he was getting pwnd by a 30% Kisame clone before he opened the 6TH gate to finally get the upperhand?)

We've seen strength, speed and godly endurance out of Kimimaro... and that was back when he was a teenager.

Suiken worked on Kimimaro because the attacks were random and sporadic i.e. he could not predict them.


All Kimimaro has to really do is survive until he gets an opportunity. Then much like Gaara vs. Lee... Kimimaro capitalizes on the back end of a high speed combination that doesn't quite put Kimi down for the count.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/
This is what Kimi did with no CS against Lee's Omote Renge.

AND we know from experience that Gai doesn't use his Gates combos until he is cornered or in a bit of trouble... But with the lethality of Kimi's attacks, how long does Gai really have?
We are talking about crazy ass fast and powerful gai here. The bones are strong but just how strong. Repeated impact on the armor and eventually it will crack and break. Gai has shown incredible speed and strength that make him probably the best taijutsu user seen yet.

As for lee's drunken fist, lee was able to get some hit on kimi b4 he used drunken fist b/c he is fast and adept in his skills. Gai is way better than lee.

What i can't understand ishow u can unnerestimate gai. Kimi is strong but gai has been commented on his strength by akatsukis like itachi and kisame. He is on par with even kakashi. Gai would have a tough fight but he win regardless. The difference between gaara and gai is gai attack straight while gaara's sand envelopes and capitalizes on crushing, gai is all brute force = combined with speed and kimi won't know what hit him

[Eddy01741]

Not true, if you punch a tank 1 bajillion times it will never have a hole in it (unless from corrosion and decomposition).

It depends on how you really interpret the saying that his bones were as hard as steel. If they are truly like steel, then they would likely never break from repeated pounding (they'd have to be hit so hard that they themselves were bent backwards or in some other way). If they were brittle like bone, but strong enough against impact as steel, then yes, repeated strong attacks would eventually get through. Personally, I think it is the latter, Kimi can grow and manipulate his bones to his will, but that doesn't mean that his bones are less brittle than others.

Anyways, I see Gai winning this one, this is a late 20s/early 30s (just an assumption based on Kakashi's assumed age) ninja up against a 15 year old teenager. I'd have to say, IF kimmimaro was the same age as Gai, I would probably see him winning, if he had learned to attain at least as much speed as say Lee, and had his super taijutsu kekkai genkai, I couldn't see Gai winning. But that is not the case, and hence, I must see Gai winning. Such a shame for Kishi to kill off a character with such potential like that, then again, he was probably the greatest Oro fanatic ever to live.

Also, don't underestimate the Dance of the Seedling Fern, which I would say is probably Kimi's best attack. Not only could he pull it off from what, hundreds of feet underground, but he can travel through his own bones (hence how he was able to almost kill Lee and Gaara). It'd be nice if Kishi developed on that (like seeing if he could then similarly retreat into his bones in the dance of the seedling fern, it would be great to throw off your enemy, since they are now surrounded and have no idea where to attack).

[Raizen]

Not true, if you punch a tank 1 bajillion times it will never have a hole in it (unless from corrosion and decomposition).

It depends on how you really interpret the saying that his bones were as hard as steel. If they are truly like steel, then they would likely never break from repeated pounding (they'd have to be hit so hard that they themselves were bent backwards or in some other way). If they were brittle like bone, but strong enough against impact as steel, then yes, repeated strong attacks would eventually get through. Personally, I think it is the latter, Kimi can grow and manipulate his bones to his will, but that doesn't mean that his bones are less brittle than others.

Anyways, I see Gai winning this one, this is a late 20s/early 30s (just an assumption based on Kakashi's assumed age) ninja up against a 15 year old teenager. I'd have to say, IF kimmimaro was the same age as Gai, I would probably see him winning, if he had learned to attain at least as much speed as say Lee, and had his super taijutsu kekkai genkai, I couldn't see Gai winning. But that is not the case, and hence, I must see Gai winning. Such a shame for Kishi to kill off a character with such potential like that, then again, he was probably the greatest Oro fanatic ever to live.

Also, don't underestimate the Dance of the Seedling Fern, which I would say is probably Kimi's best attack. Not only could he pull it off from what, hundreds of feet underground, but he can travel through his own bones (hence how he was able to almost kill Lee and Gaara). It'd be nice if Kishi developed on that (like seeing if he could then similarly retreat into his bones in the dance of the seedling fern, it would be great to throw off your enemy, since they are now surrounded and have no idea where to attack).
Well that analogy of the tank is false b/c u are comparing teh strength of gai to a meeble puch while kimi to a tank.

Also, I don't think that kimi's bones were ever stated to be as strong as steel just said to be very durable. I could be wrong

IMO, gai is too strong and fast for kimi to counter. Kimi is strong but we are talking about the master of taijutsu here

[shinsengumi]

Kimimaro is the most dominant Taijutsu user showcased in the manga so far.
:blink

(Gai has only fought... what, twice? And he was getting pwnd by a 30% Kisame clone before he opened the 6TH gate to finally get the upperhand?)
(Kimimaro has only fought... what, once?:blink)he didn't open the 6th gate because he was being pwned.he did it because lee,neji and tenten were getting drowned and he had no time to waste.and he didn't actually just get the upperhand,he annihilated kisame within seconds.


We've seen strength, speed and godly endurance out of Kimimaro...
we've seen godly strength and 2 times godly speed out of Gai.


Suiken worked on Kimimaro because the attacks were random and sporadic i.e. he could not predict them.
so you assume Gai is incapable of using such unpredictable attacks w/o getting drunk?


All Kimimaro has to really do is survive until he gets an opportunity. Then much like Gaara vs. Lee... Kimimaro capitalizes on the back end of a high speed combination that doesn't quite put Kimi down for the count.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/10/
This is what Kimi did with no CS against Lee's Omote Renge.
why do u think the attacker will always be Gai.What if he decides to stay defensive.how will kimimaro actually hit him?even gaara's sand couldn't catch up with lee so how can kikimaro catch up with gai?
i already said this,it's a close match (IMO),but you sound it like Gai is no match for kimi which i can never accept

[Shaunlim]

I would also like to add the fact that Gai can actually use ninjutsu besides taijutsu unlike Lee which makes a huge difference. Though we don't really know what he can use besides Kuchiyose.

[Forever_Melody]

Yeah Gai is being underestimated a bit. Kimimaro is indeed a prodigy, but he's still a kid >.>

I've already listed the numerous advantages Kimi has going for him, but I still think Gai can outmaneuver him.

[DarkManSharingan32]

:blink

(Kimimaro has only fought... what, once?:blink)he didn't open the 6th gate because he was being pwned.he did it because lee,neji and tenten were getting drowned and he had no time to waste.and he didn't actually just get the upperhand,he annihilated kisame within seconds.


we've seen godly strength and 2 times godly speed out of Gai.


so you assume Gai is incapable of using such unpredictable attacks w/o getting drunk?


why do u think the attacker will always be Gai.What if he decides to stay defensive.how will kimimaro actually hit him?even gaara's sand couldn't catch up with lee so how can kikimaro catch up with gai?
i already said this,it's a close match (IMO),but you sound it like Gai is no match for kimi which i can never accept

Go back and re-read the Kimimaro fights... He's a counter puncher at heart. His opponent comes to him and he uses their attacks to set up his own.

He went on an all-out offensive against Gaara merely because that sort of attack plays into Gaara's greatest strength. And even then... he still tried to keep distance by sending Hessengan at him to test his defensive powers.

While not as good as Kaiten for obvious reason... Kimimaro has a great way of dealing with attacks from 360 degrees. His bones allow him to defend in all areas.... but what we are not sure about is how he could deal with Gai's speed.

While we can all be rather sure Gai is going to get the upper hand here.. by drawing Gai in, using his Bones Kimi can create a deadly opening by merely surviving attacks.

And Raizen (everyone as well), I encourage you guys to re-read those chapters cause they really are good. Lee's only hit on Kimi was the initial one when he was saving Naruto. After that, Kimi dodged every attack until Lee took his "Medicine".... Then Lee hit Kimi i believe once, and then after Kimi used Dance of the Pines... Lee got housed. Even his Omote Renge was nullified. When had you ever seen that? Lee's speed made to look like nothing and then easily countered.

I understand that Lee was hurt, but that's still impressive on Kimi's part.
---

I think extrapolating that to Gai especially when Kimimaro was able to stop nearly all of Lee's attacks just using his Dances and NO CS.... adding in CS could give him a significant advantage to make a deadly attack.
---

And as for the strength of Kimi's bones... they were able to withstand Sabaku Souou/Taisou... That's some serious strength and i'm sorry but I don't see a single punch by ANYONE able to do that much damage.
[hr]

Yeah Gai is being underestimated a bit. Kimimaro is indeed a prodigy, but he's still a kid >.>

I've already listed the numerous advantages Kimi has going for him, but I still think Gai can outmaneuver him.

I don't think age has anything to do with it... Remember Kakashi's line "In the ninja world there are those younger than you and stronger than me..." [To Naruto I believe].

Kimimaro has the tools... I guess it just goes towards a gut feeling. I mean, is Gai really gonna punch this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/212/04/

Like I said, i think Kimi wins if Gai doesn't use all 8 gates.

[Shaunlim]

And as for the strength of Kimi's bones... they were able to withstand Sabaku Souou/Taisou... That's some serious strength and i'm sorry but I don't see a single punch by ANYONE able to do that much damage.

There is a difference between a Sabaku Souou/Taisou compared to a punch. With the sand, immense pressure is used from all direction to crush the opponent while a punch simply delivers the entire force towards a single spot. Repeatedly punching the same spot(more or less the same), can cause some serious damage. Especially if Gai(with no Gates) actually punched a sound nin through a wall.

[Forever_Melody]

Well, I did re-read those chapters for the sake of my post(and yes, they're really awesome ^_^), and I still stand by my statement, the Kaimon Gates are probably Gai's best option(as from what we've seen that is).

Now as you said, the question is whether or not Gia will use them in time. Well Kimi only got one near fatal blow on Lee. His other strikes were somewhat avoided or countered/deflected. That strike Kimi almost got was considering Lee was stuck in his rib cage and as far as we know, Gai doesn't use Omote Renge so he wouldn't be in the same situation.

It'll be a close fight.

Am I the only one who'd be afraid of Kimimaro if he'd grown up? :blink

[Eddy01741]

Well that analogy of the tank is false b/c u are comparing teh strength of gai to a meeble puch while kimi to a tank.

Also, I don't think that kimi's bones were ever stated to be as strong as steel just said to be very durable. I could be wrong

IMO, gai is too strong and fast for kimi to counter. Kimi is strong but we are talking about the master of taijutsu here

It was an exadgeration, but all you said was that repeated attacks on armor would make it crack. Okay, how about this, fire all the machineguns you want at the tank, and hell, even throw in some 120mm cannons with normal rounds (solid shot) and they'll never penetrate a modern tank's armor. Different substances have different resistences. So while something like plastic would accumlate damage over time and eventually break, something like metal would never do it.

Think of it this way with metal:

Fire a gun at a plate of metal 1mm thickness, the bullet goes through easily.

Fire a gun at a plate of metal 2cm thickness, the bullet makes a dent in the metal, and eventually with repeated accurate firing, a bullet will break the plate and go through.

Fire a gun at a plate of metal 20cm, the bullet makes nothing but a scratch, now fire off thousands of rounds in this way, the result is the same.

All I'm saying is that it depends on the properties of Kimmi's bones. Now, I actually agree with you that they will break with repeated strong attacks due to the brittleness of bone. Although KImmi claims his bone is as strong as steel, I doubt that the actual properties of his bone are like a metal. Therefore, I am agreeing that Gai will eventually break the bones on Kimmimaro's body.

I was just disproving your argument that repeated attacks will make any armor crack.

[Forever_Melody]

Metal has a certain level of malleability though, which bones possess as well, but not to the same extent. Under pressure strong enough, the bone will break rather then bend. Also, a sheet of metal isn't the best example as Kimi's bones don't act like a sheet(unless you count that armor he used to counter Sabaku Kyuu) but more like rods and spikes.

[Eddy01741]

Oh my, i should have never made this argument, since I am AGREEING with you guys. I'm am simply saying that repeated attacks won't always break armor.

I am AGREEING that kimmimaro's bones have similar properties as normal people's bones, but simply stronger, whilst if kimmimaro's bones were actually made of steel, they would be both stronger and have different properties than normal bones.

[Forever_Melody]

Well actually, just to be nitpicky, a steel rod will also break under pressure rather then bend. The example mostly works for a plate or sheet :XD

Ok I'm done now :D

But yeah, Kimimaro's bones can take quite a beating mind you. He can slice Shuriken with them and they only broke when Kimi applied lots of pressure on those minerals in Gaara's ultimate defense. The stress proved too much for the bones, but mind you, we're talking the hardest minerals in the earth(probably diamond or other complex shaped crystals) compressed to the maximum with chakra sooooo >.>

Kimi's bones, by all standards, should be able to resist any physical attack as said by Orochimaru. Of course, chakra based stuff is another story >.>

[ninjabot]

I think Kimimaro's other abilities besides straight up taijutusu give him the edge. He has long range options (bone bullets, bone forest), is resistant if not downright immune to Gai's fighting style (direct physical combat) and can gain a boost in the event that he is overwhelmed by the Gates (CS).

Remember, in the event that his bones are broken, more can be remade to replace them. If Gai were to punch through a dense bone spike to hit Kimi, he'd still hit more bone on top of more bone underneath his skin...that can be braced with even more bone. He could rock him around the battlefield making craters, but he'll also be exhausting himself while doing so where as Kimi's chakra would only be spent to replace damaged bones.

[Raizen]

1- U guys can't compare lee after his recovery with gai
2- Kimi's bone is hard but can be broken as seen with gaara.. U think the force of a full punch or kick w/ the gates would be on that level
3- Yes kimi can recover his bones, but after using them, he has to somehow produce them again. How fast can he produce them. Fast enough to counter speed demon gai? I think not

[DarkManSharingan32]

Well, I did re-read those chapters for the sake of my post(and yes, they're really awesome ^_^), and I still stand by my statement, the Kaimon Gates are probably Gai's best option(as from what we've seen that is).

Now as you said, the question is whether or not Gia will use them in time. Well Kimi only got one near fatal blow on Lee. His other strikes were somewhat avoided or countered/deflected. That strike Kimi almost got was considering Lee was stuck in his rib cage and as far as we know, Gai doesn't use Omote Renge so he wouldn't be in the same situation.

It'll be a close fight.

Am I the only one who'd be afraid of Kimimaro if he'd grown up? :blink

Hell no man... Had Kimimaro had that ability and grew up he'd most likely be invincible. I've said it before, but Kishimoto super pumps up characters he knows he's about to kill off.

If he had any intentions of keeping Kimi around, he would have stripped him of 5-6 abilities and had him grow up like everyone else.
---

But yeah... Kimimaro being able to grow from the point in the manga where he died...? Scary as hell. Hopefully he'd ge Gaara's little minion.

That would be fun!
[hr]

1- U guys can't compare lee after his recovery with gai
2- Kimi's bone is hard but can be broken as seen with gaara.. U think the force of a full punch or kick w/ the gates would be on that level
3- Yes kimi can recover his bones, but after using them, he has to somehow produce them again. How fast can he produce them. Fast enough to counter speed demon gai? I think not

1) Why not... they have similar fighting styles. The only remarked difference is speed and strength... and we are accounting for those in our arguments.

2) Like FM said, it was due to the strongest minerals the earth had to offer. I'll just put it like this.... I think Gai would have sustained ALOT more damage trying to punch that Racoon, as opposed to Kimimaro lol

3) Kimi's Hessendan recovered pretty fast.... and since he removes his spine for the Dance of the Clematis...
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/216/10/

I would wager that his new spine is in place almost immediately... no?

And like I said... as fast as Gai is, he still has to hit Kimi. And with chakra-tempered bones sticking out of him... where exactly does Gai put his fist? lol

[shinsengumi]

just assumption but--kimi didn't grow any bones out of his face or anywhere on his head.maybe that's the point where sould be hit to evade any counter-bone attack.it makes sense,he needs rod or spike like bones to grow them into rods or spikes which are the ribs,arms,fingers,legs and even the spinal cord itself.how can he grow his skull into something like weapon?
-----
when he activates the CS,he gains the ultimate strenght but he loses his speed half the way down.power is of no use if he can't even touch gai.i don't even consider the 8 gates.
the only question for me is if gai can really break those bones or not

[kkck]

Well, IMHO I think there is some inconsistensy with kimimaru's bone hardness. Kimimaru was able to survive being burried 200 meter under the ground, which means his bones can actually stand god knows how many tons of preasure. If there was a battle between kimimaru and gai, gai would probably be able to break kimi's bones because of plot jutsu rather than because he can actually punch with a strenth comparable to hundreds and hundreds of tons of preasure. Speed wise gai should be able to surpass kiimimaru but kimimarus body structure makes him a freaking tank. To win gai should be able to get past kimimarus bones and hit the organs (which kimi cant heal of regrow) but for that gai would need a bunch of gates. I guess gai would win if he uses most of the gates...

[Forever_Melody]

Constant pressure and impact due to speed aren't the same though. A car crashing into another car and a car being squished by a junkyard machine aren't applying the same type of force. One is an instantaneous force while the other is constantly applied. As for the tons of pressure, Gaara merely said the pressure would stop him from moving a finger, he didn't say it'd crush him into a pulp either lol :p

[kkck]

Technically kimimaru should have being squished into a weird pulp by the preasure regardless of what gaara said though. Also the constant preasure is actually worsed than the instant preasure of a punch (specially if the preasure of gais attack doesnt equal that of hundreds and hundreds of tons...)

[Forever_Melody]

200m into the ground doens't give hundreds of tons of pressure last I checked. You have to go like really really deep in the ocean(more than a mile) to get natural pressure which would crush you >.>

Also, Gaara did not mention his jutsu having any type of crushing ability, he merely said that it'd transport Kimimaro 200m into the ground and keep him there. He did not mention a compression of any sort like his Sabaku Taiso jutsu or something.

[kkck]

Well, in general ground is much denser than water so going 200 underwater is not the same as going 200 meters under ground.

http://kids.earth.nasa.gov/archive/air_pressure/index.html
Just the air around us is already exerting a few tons of pressure on us, ground is much much denser than air, so having 200m worth of ground on top of you is some serious pressure.

[Forever_Melody]

Wait, why are e arguing this? Kimimarmo survived that jutsu(which according to youe exerts natural pressure) AND he survived a jutsu which creates artificial pressure through chakra(Sabaku Kyuu and Sabaku Taisou).

As for whether or not the Kaimon Gates would be able to apply such pressure, I guess you ask yourself if one of Tsunade's punches would break Kimi's bones lol :p

[kkck]

My point was that kimimaru could take tons and tons and tons of pressure because of his bones, so unless gai can top that, I dont see him defeating kimimaru.... I only believe that gai wins because of plot jutsu lol.

[Forever_Melody]

There is no plot jutsu because this isn't a story line fight lol :p

Also, I don't think it's the same to say that Kimimaro's survival of those jutsus, indicate the same of the strength of his bones. He probably layered many plates of bones to survive such a crushing force.

[kkck]

There is no plot jutsu because this isn't a story line fight lol :p
I know lol but u get what I mean...:amuse

Also, I don't think it's the same to say that Kimimaro's survival of those jutsus, indicate the same of the strength of his bones. He probably layered many plates of bones to survive such a crushing force.

A force is a force and pressure is presure, when you hit something, for an instant you are applying pressure to it. In fact applying a constant force does much more damage than applying a force for just a moment...

[Eddy01741]

Just for clarification, Gaara wasn't doing his grand desert funeral thing to kill Kimmimaro, although that would have been nice too. By burying him 200 meters underground, Gaara assumed that he would be able to keep him there since almost nobody can dig thereselves out of that. I think that Gaara realized that once his desert coffin and desert funeral didn't work (which is surrounding the target with sand, and then crushing it with all of his force), that he would likely not be able to simply kill kimmimaro with the pressure of his sand, so instead, by keeping Kimmi underground, he would be able to keep him out of the fight (or so he thought). Unfortunately, the dance of the seedling fern allows Kimmimaro to both sprout a whole field full of sharp bones and also let him transport himself through those very bones.

[DarkManSharingan32]

I think it would help if someone could at least break out the DB stats for both characters... From what I remember I'm fairly sure Kimi has a 5 in Taijutsu, and either 4/5s in Speed and Stamina.

He's no joke. lol

[shinsengumi]

well in fact the pressure from being pressed and the pressure from an impact are totally different things.it's not like force is force and pressure is pressure.the outcome depends on how they are applied on the subject.
forget about kimi,take a normal person's bone as an example.you can never crush a bone with your bare hands no matter how strong you are- but with all your might if you hit on the middle(or whereever seems like the g point) you can actually crack it or even break it.
another example-take a wooden rod on the floor and put something realy realy heavy onto it(which can be hundreds of kilos) but it won't get crushed,it will stand the pressure.put it upright and hit on the middle and it will break into 2.
Gaara tried to crush his whole body with his sand.Gai will gather the strenght on a point that will cause a crack on it or even break it which is a much more possible task.


I think it would help if someone could at least break out the DB stats for both characters... From what I remember I'm fairly sure Kimi has a 5 in Taijutsu, and either 4/5s in Speed and Stamina.

He's no joke. lol

Gai http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Gai.gif Kimimaro http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Kimimaro.gif

here they are but actually they don't mean anything because Kimimaro's strenght depends on his bloodline limit which is not shown here and both CS and 8 Gates are off the case

[Raizen]

well in fact the pressure from being pressed and the pressure from an impact are totally different things.it's not like force is force and pressure is pressure.the outcome depends on how they are applied on the subject.
forget about kimi,take a normal person's bone as an example.you can never crush a bone with your bare hands no matter how strong you are- but with all your might if you hit on the middle(or whereever seems like the g point) you can actually crack it or even break it.
another example-take a wooden rod on the floor and put something realy realy heavy onto it(which can be hundreds of kilos) but it won't get crushed,it will stand the pressure.put it upright and hit on the middle and it will break into 2.
Gaara tried to crush his whole body with his sand.Gai will gather the strenght on a point that will cause a crack on it or even break it which is a much more possible task.



Gai http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Gai.gif Kimimaro http://leafninja.com/images/information/stats/Kimimaro.gif

here they are but actually they don't mean anything because Kimimaro's strenght depends on his bloodline limit which is not shown here and both CS and 8 Gates are off the case
Well said. gaara's attacks targeted the body as a whole so the impact is not as powerful as if the attack was in one focus, ie a punch.
I doubt kimi can survie an attack like this
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/16-17/

Also, those here backing up kimi is saying that kimi would win b/c of his KG and his strength agianst taijutsu. If that is the case then I guess not even hokage tsunade can beat him huh? :notrust

[DarkManSharingan32]

Well said. gaara's attacks targeted the body as a whole so the impact is not as powerful as if the attack was in one focus, ie a punch.
I doubt kimi can survie an attack like this
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/16-17/

Also, those here backing up kimi is saying that kimi would win b/c of his KG and his strength agianst taijutsu. If that is the case then I guess not even hokage tsunade can beat him huh? :notrust

Gaara's attacks kill.
Punches usually don't and I don't believe we have seen that happen.

And I think he can... especially in CS2.
---

And remember there is difference between Jounin and Kage... Tsunade is likely much stronger that Gai in pure strength, but she still runs into the same problem.

Kimi's bones can trap your own punch and greatly reduce it's effectiveness... or it can just impale your hand/foot outright.

That's his area of effectiveness. And as backed by the manga, it's pretty damn good. lol

[Forever_Melody]

Yeah, the only thing to be afraid of would be that Kimi impales Gai's fist, or that Gai punches so fast/hard in Gates mode that he impales his own fists through Kimi's bones. The Gates don't improve your body's resistance last I checked.

If I punch a wooden pike, I might break it with enough force, but my hand might still be hurt. In the same way, Gai's body might also suffer damage simply from how Kimi's bloodline works. Attacking Kimi proves to hurt you as well as him.

The Gates IMO could win it for Gai, but he'd also heavily damage himself if he used something like Asa Kujaku on Kimi if the latter already had his bones sticking out.

[shinsengumi]

I doubt kimi can survie an attack like this
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/16-17/

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1800/jutanjn9.jpg
:p ^ _^

[killbill]

I voted for gai...kimimaro is really strong as his bones are really hard to penetrate..but we havn't seen gai in much action...he can probably break his bones with some taijutsu when he opens the gates...

[Raizen]

Gaara's attacks kill.
Punches usually don't and I don't believe we have seen that happen.

And I think he can... especially in CS2.
---

And remember there is difference between Jounin and Kage... Tsunade is likely much stronger that Gai in pure strength, but she still runs into the same problem.

Kimi's bones can trap your own punch and greatly reduce it's effectiveness... or it can just impale your hand/foot outright.

That's his area of effectiveness. And as backed by the manga, it's pretty damn good. lol
Gai killed a sound ninja with one puch, Tsunade almost killed J-man with one puch, so yeah ounches can kill

As hokage, tsunade overall is stronger than gai, but with the gates he can close the gaps between them to make their punch strength on par.

As for trapping the punch, he has to expect it first and gai is too damn fast for kimi, especially if he use CS

@melody, someone who is probably the best tai specialist woudl know where he wants his punch to connect despite how fast he is going

@shinegumi, WICKED AWESOME!!

[ninjabot]

Something I remembered just now about that pic. If Kimimaro made his bone forest, Gai wouldn't be able to hit him until he came out of them to attack. If Kimimaro used that as a way to hide until Gai became tired from activating his gates, his reaction time would diminish heavily (like when Lee fought Gaara) and he wouldn't be able to dodge a surprise attack after a while.

Remember, Kimi can hide amongst the bone "trees" and pop out at will. And "knowing where you want your punch to go" does not mean you have the ability to hit what you want to hit. If Gai rushes in at blinding speed to punch Kimi while bones are already starting to appear, how would he stop himself?

[Shaunlim]

Something I remembered just now about that pic. If Kimimaro made his bone forest, Gai wouldn't be able to hit him until he came out of them to attack. If Kimimaro used that as a way to hide until Gai became tired from activating his gates, his reaction time would diminish heavily (like when Lee fought Gaara) and he wouldn't be able to dodge a surprise attack after a while.

Remember, Kimi can hide amongst the bone "trees" and pop out at will. And "knowing where you want your punch to go" does not mean you have the ability to hit what you want to hit. If Gai rushes in at blinding speed to punch Kimi while bones are already starting to appear, how would he stop himself?

Only way for Kimimaru to actually use the bone forest would be Gaara suddenly appearing and putting him underground again. Unless of course he suddenly have the ability to go underground himself deep enough to actually use it.

[Eddy01741]

I'm pretty sure he can use the "dance of the seedling fern" at any time he pleases, not just when he is underground (oh yep, because the kaguya clan would definitely just invent their most powerful jutsu from a position where they were forced to be underground...).

I still see Gai winning though, if Gai can just survive the first surprise attack from the dance of the seedling fern, he could probably use his great speed to get out of the damn forest before Kimmimaro could get many more attacks off on him.

[Shaunlim]

I'm pretty sure he can use the "dance of the seedling fern" at any time he pleases, not just when he is underground (oh yep, because the kaguya clan would definitely just invent their most powerful jutsu from a position where they were forced to be underground...).

I still see Gai winning though, if Gai can just survive the first surprise attack from the dance of the seedling fern, he could probably use his great speed to get out of the damn forest before Kimmimaro could get many more attacks off on him.

That isn't exactly a problem now is it. Inventing certain techniques for certain situations. Not to mention that how in world is Kimimaru's body is capable of supporting the weight of those huge bones. Not to mention the amount of those bones and how far they streched out. He needs something to support the weight.

[DarkManSharingan32]

That isn't exactly a problem now is it. Inventing certain techniques for certain situations. Not to mention that how in world is Kimimaru's body is capable of supporting the weight of those huge bones. Not to mention the amount of those bones and how far they streched out. He needs something to support the weight.

You're bones support the weight of your body... The stronger your bones the more weight you can carry.
---

And come on... it's highly unlikely that that move was developed in the same situation...

It's probably more like a porcupine.... except 1000x more deadly. lol

[Shaunlim]

You're bones support the weight of your body... The stronger your bones the more weight you can carry.
---

And come on... it's highly unlikely that that move was developed in the same situation...

It's probably more like a porcupine.... except 1000x more deadly. lol

And exactly how does his small body take on all those bones ??

Besides, for all we know, the inventer of the dance might be a Doton user. Thus him going underground to use it. Or it might be due to the fact that the dance was actually powered by CS2 to gain that effect. Either way, there is no logical explanation on how Kimimaru is exactly going to use this without being underground.

Well, he already does have a porcupine dance which did against Lee. lol

[DarkManSharingan32]

And exactly how does his small body take on all those bones ??

Besides, for all we know, the inventer of the dance might be a Doton user. Thus him going underground to use it. Or it might be due to the fact that the dance was actually powered by CS2 to gain that effect. Either way, there is no logical explanation on how Kimimaru is exactly going to use this without being underground.

Well, he already does have a porcupine dance which did against Lee. lol

Small body? Uhh take a look back... Kimi is a pretty tall guy. And trust me... Kimi isn't an overly powerful guy, meaning his muscles likely don't carry that much weight themselves. His frame is made stronger by using chakra, and because it uses chakra it likely made more maneuverable.

And think about your body man.... If you have weak bones you dont grow.

Kimi's size and prowess show that his body is on another level. And remember... hard substances aren't necessarily heavy.

Just look at diamonds. lol

[Shaunlim]

Small body? Uhh take a look back... Kimi is a pretty tall guy. And trust me... Kimi isn't an overly powerful guy, meaning his muscles likely don't carry that much weight themselves. His frame is made stronger by using chakra, and because it uses chakra it likely made more maneuverable.

And think about your body man.... If you have weak bones you dont grow.

Kimi's size and prowess show that his body is on another level. And remember... hard substances aren't necessarily heavy.

Just look at diamonds. lol

Small body as in it's not something as big as Gamabunta or Manda type of big.
And then there is still the problem of size. Yes, I agree that hard doesn't necessarily = to heavy but there is also the size to factor in here. Not to mention the area as well. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/217/10/
Please explain to me how his body is capable of supporting that forest of bones.

[En Yang Ji]

It doesn't seem like Kimmimaro can use Dance of the Seedling Ferns outside of the ground. The bones go upward from underground. The only other way I could see him using it is if he jumped very high and sent a large number of bones from his body to the ground.

[DarkManSharingan32]

It doesn't seem like Kimmimaro can use Dance of the Seedling Ferns outside of the ground. The bones go upward from underground. The only other way I could see him using it is if he jumped very high and sent a large number of bones from his body to the ground.

Kimi controls where his bones go.
He could very well make them move forward or backwards or sideways.

[Forever_Melody]

Now the questions is where the bones for that jutsu are coming from. :blink If they come from his body, then either his body grew to substancial sizes(so as to cover that huge radius), or he made the bones go diagonally out and they looked as though they were straight(since he was like 200m underground).

The thing is that the bones look nearly straight, which means it seems they protruded directly straight out of his body, yet his body cannot cover such a wide range so IMO, the only "logical" explanation would be he made the bones outside his body's cover radius go sideways then do a 90 degree angle lol :p

[Shaunlim]

Now the questions is where the bones for that jutsu are coming from. :blink If they come from his body, then either his body grew to substancial sizes(so as to cover that huge radius), or he made the bones go diagonally out and they looked as though they were straight(since he was like 200m underground).

The thing is that the bones look nearly straight, which means it seems they protruded directly straight out of his body, yet his body cannot cover such a wide range so IMO, the only "logical" explanation would be he made the bones outside his body's cover radius go sideways then do a 90 degree angle lol :p

Probably, something like a plant. Just imagine his body as a seed or something like that I guess. Though the area covered is a little to big for his body to support. That's why I said, underground is a req for this jutsu in order to support those bones.

[Forever_Melody]

Probably, something like a plant. Just imagine his body as a seed or something like that I guess. Though the area covered is a little to big for his body to support. That's why I said, underground is a req for this jutsu in order to support those bones.

Ah yes, I'd be willing to agree with that because otherwise it'd just seem like too odd a jutsu to use while in the air or whatnot(and it'd leave many openings).

Interesting fact that Kimi can travel through his bones though >.>

[Shaunlim]

Ah yes, I'd be willing to agree with that because otherwise it'd just seem like too odd a jutsu to use while in the air or whatnot(and it'd leave many openings).

Interesting fact that Kimi can travel through his bones though >.>

Probably something like Sakon's ability ? Though, I wonder whether this dance is actually at this magnitude without the involvement of the CS2.

[Forever_Melody]

Probably something like Sakon's ability ? Though, I wonder whether this dance is actually at this magnitude without the involvement of the CS2.

Well we're unaware how much of a boost CS2 gives. Sasuke's actual jutsus while in CS2 didn't seem that much more powerful(at least not in part 2).

[Shaunlim]

Well we're unaware how much of a boost CS2 gives. Sasuke's actual jutsus while in CS2 didn't seem that much more powerful(at least not in part 2).

I'm actually referring to the jutsu itself but more to the boost that a KG receive. I mean Sakon did mentioned something like that.

[Raizen]

I think kimi's final dance can be used either way, underground and both above ground, however, underground gives the user an element of surprise while being able to cover a much bigger radius due to what shaunlim stated.

As for why i think he could do it above ground, it has something to do with naruto ultimate nija the game 3 LOL. I know it is not official canon, but maybe he creates by sending chakra into the ground and they act as plants and grow extremely fast.

Regardless of the attack, it may cover a large radius but gai can still dodge them. if a weakened lee and a chakraless gaara can move fast enough to dodge a speed master like gai can, not including gates. The bones act like kakashi's sneak underground attack and while fast, someone with fast reflexes can dodge it, like pein and gai. And about kimi hiding while the gates take a toll on gai, the gates can be turned off. It is the prolong use that weakens the user, and gai wouldn't use the gates unless he knows he can finish it

[Kibushi]

For those who keep mentioning that Lee and Gaara had a chance against Kimimaro... realize the one major fact as to why he was even out there to begin with. Kimimaro was on his literal death bed, and his body was moving through sheer will pwoer alone...and they only stood a "chance" of defeating him. His power must have been near nothing compared to his actual ability. That is likeyl why he even used the cursed seal o nthem at all..to keep going... to finsih his mission. I don't think it was desperation or necessity... i think it was pure and utter drive, like his entire ability to stand i nthat instance was.

Kimimaro was an expert at taijutsu that was rivaled by very few, on his /death bed/ is all we know about his abilities. We know he helped even someone as pwoerful as Orochimaru take down a Kage and was credited with it's entire success. We know that he was the #1 choice for Orochimaru before his illness, and Sasuke was a back up more than a primary candidate. We know that he can cover i'd say ... maybe a mile of terrain (maybe half a mile...) with a jutsu that allows him (with the seal) to attack from any direction within it. We know he is highly analytical, and experienced at defeating jutsu of all types not because he faced them, but because he has described understanding how they work after seeing them once.


Gai's only real chance are the gates.. and the gates are limited..and self destructive. Nothing Kimimaro did was self destructive...and as far as we know.. he can regenerate his flesh, as well as his bones, which were qouted as hard/er/ than steel. If you do not assume Orochimaru's quote was strictly based on his bones, it can be assumed that he can regenerate other things too. I would say organs are his down fall, but beyond that... if it's not a fatal blow, i think Kimimaro technically cannot be truly, lastingly harmed.

[Destined_One]

This argument is pointless really, You are talking about Kimmimaro who defeated lee, gaara who were mere genin at the time... During Lee's fight with Garaa we see how fast the jounin are at that time in comparison, when Gai completely dismisses Garaa's sand like it was nothing... It's shown again when Neji tries to attack Hinata.. although he was porbably the strongest of the Konoha genin at the time, 4 joinin appeared in an instant to stop him with minimal effort... Kimimaro CS2 was probably on the same lvl as Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2 + Sharigan 3 tomoe... and as many have said if he had lived to progress and mature would have left guy behind just like Sasuke and Naruto have... but seeing as we compare a fully Mature Gai, who was around Kakashi's lvl at the time... who could defeat Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura whilst reading a book, what makes u think Kimimaro has a chance against him... He was nothing but a comparison for Sasuke.. I think if Kimimaro was still alive, he would be the worst enemy to Gai, but its unfair to compare the youngster to a jonin especially in part 1 where the difference between them was made quite clear.. (and I mean elite jonin (Kakashi, Kurenai, gai, asuma, anko, etc), not the fodder)

[Kibushi]

So your saying that the Kazekage is weaker than Garaa and Lee as well as Gai/Kakashi? Also remember that this was a while after all of that tournament stuff, so they were not at the same level as before, even if Lee was still nto top shape, Gaara was far more proficient and in control against a nearly dead person.

Edit: I guess my point at the end of the day is this... Muhammad Ali at his point in life right now, would never compare in the boxing world as he did in his prime of health. Not evenclose. Putting that i nto an Anime perspective, you could take that common sense and say his "will" made him as powerful as he could be... but at the same time you could extrapolate the difference from my statement. It is not to say that Kimimaro is better than Gai, ro that Gai is weak... but fro mthe little that we know of both of them really, Gai's rather straight forward style of fighting is not a trump against Kimimaro's style of fighting. Gai would have to be /far/ better than Kimimaro to win, not because he's bad or weak at what he does, but because he's fighting against his own counter.

In the melee world, there are different advantages and disadvantages. Range, speed, precision, power, durability, variety. Kimimaro actualyl has all of these..and needs no weapon to have that. He is quite literally, in martial arts terms, about the pinnicale of any martial artist. Gai has ridiculous pwoer and speed and experience, but he cannot make range where there is none, he cannot make variety beyond what his body is capable of doing. His precisino may be elite, we don't know.. only ones i know that are elitely precise are Ten Ten, Itachi Uchiha, and Kimimaro, Tai/Kenjutsu wise. Tsunade for instance, she's unfathomably stronge, but that doesn't mean she's the most precise fighter (but who needs to be when buildigns collapse when you punch a wall). Durability... i'd not say Gai is "super tough" i tnhe naruto world. Not that he can't take a punch.. but there are peopel with "rock hard" and "diamond hard" skin all over the place. All of these things make him have a distinct disadvantage without just being much much better than Kimimaro which he just might be...we don't really know.

Based on what we do however, assumptions aside, on an equal palying field (all abilties we know of present) Kimimaro wins most times. As mentioned many times in this discussion, Without Gai being /much/ faster and /much/ stronger than Kimi... he's not shown anything that would allow him to win.

[Raizen]

Kimi is definitely strong, jonin level. But gai is a master tai moreso than both lee and kimi. Gai can break him

[Kibushi]

Gai might win, but not with what he's shown thus far.

[Raizen]

Gai might win, but not with what he's shown thus far.
The gates define gai, that is what he is all about, power and force. Power strong enough to break even kimi's bones

[DarkManSharingan32]

The gates define gai, that is what he is all about, power and force. Power strong enough to break even kimi's bones

Absolutely unproveable.
Gaara crushed Kimi under thousands of pounds of pressure.
Arguably the kind of pressure that could create diamonds.... and yet Kimimaro's bones still held up.

The 30% clone that Gai bashed didn't even show signs of mutilation... nevermind evidence of structral damage.

And that was 6 Gates.
---

Both fighters have a 5 in Taijutsu...
But Kimi has the advantage of a Kekkei Genkai.... now what did we learn about those?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/25/14/

Though there have been some aberrations to that fact... it remains largely true.

Kimimaro has a nearly impregnable defence that switches seemlessly into offense... and the ability to regrow any broken or discarded bones in his body as well.


No matter what you do to him.... as long as his body pumps out chakra (Cursed Seal)... he'll just keep coming back for more.

Much more.
---

Gai puts up a good fight for a while... but get's skewerd eventually.

[Raizen]

Absolutely unproveable.
Gaara crushed Kimi under thousands of pounds of pressure.
Arguably the kind of pressure that could create diamonds.... and yet Kimimaro's bones still held up.

The 30% clone that Gai bashed didn't even show signs of mutilation... nevermind evidence of structral damage.

And that was 6 Gates.
---

Both fighters have a 5 in Taijutsu...
But Kimi has the advantage of a Kekkei Genkai.... now what did we learn about those?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/25/14/

Though there have been some aberrations to that fact... it remains largely true.

Kimimaro has a nearly impregnable defence that switches seemlessly into offense... and the ability to regrow any broken or discarded bones in his body as well.


No matter what you do to him.... as long as his body pumps out chakra (Cursed Seal)... he'll just keep coming back for more.

Much more.
---

Gai puts up a good fight for a while... but get's skewerd eventually.
I seriously don;t see it that way. As u said, kimi can keep sending out bones and replenishing them, but how long. Only until his body's chakra gives up. Also, to effortlessly protect himself, he has to see the attacks coming. I am pretty sure that everyone here agrees that lee's speed is inferior to gai. ANd yet his speed in a weakened state was able to give kimi some trouble. Even gaara commented that he was not as fast as he could.
Add gai's crazy speed and his destructive blows and kimi would be down and out. Unlike gaara's sand, gai's punch has a focus and thus has more force behind it. THe sand is more of an enveloping power so the force is divided

[DarkManSharingan32]

I seriously don;t see it that way. As u said, kimi can keep sending out bones and replenishing them, but how long. Only until his body's chakra gives up. Also, to effortlessly protect himself, he has to see the attacks coming. I am pretty sure that everyone here agrees that lee's speed is inferior to gai. ANd yet his speed in a weakened state was able to give kimi some trouble. Even gaara commented that he was not as fast as he could.
Add gai's crazy speed and his destructive blows and kimi would be down and out. Unlike gaara's sand, gai's punch has a focus and thus has more force behind it. THe sand is more of an enveloping power so the force is divided

Kimi had no problem with Lees Speed.
Lee needed to be unpredictable ala Drunken Fist in order to be somewhat effective.

Force is not necessarily better than crushing force.
It's like the difference between a car driving into you at 100mph.... Or a 1Ton weight being dropped on you from 100yds up.
Gai might not be able to keep his arms and legs from getting trapped within Kimi's bones early on in the fight... and with CS, the strength of Kimis bones also goes up.

You need to inflict internal damage in order to defeat Kimi... problem is, it's vitually impossible from what we know. His bones are just that strong.

Gai at 6 Gates, from what we saw... Didnt do nearly enough damage to break through Kimi's bones outright.

And lest we forget.... If Gai should not finish the job with his Gates,.... He's weakened, and easily finished off.

[Spike Spiegal]

Kimi is strong but,Gai definately wins this.
Gaara fought evenly with Kimi, do you think Gaara would be doing the same against Gai? Kakashi's equal? Gai back-handed Gaara's Killer Sand away like it was nothing. Kimi was made to look strong but he was fighting Genin at the time, Gai is one of the top Jounin in the most powerful village. Gai with his 6 Gates and Morning Peacock, would completely overwhelm Kimimaro.

[DarkManSharingan32]

Kimi is strong but,Gai definately wins this.
Gaara fought evenly with Kimi, do you think Gaara would be doing the same against Gai? Kakashi's equal? Gai back-handed Gaara's Killer Sand away like it was nothing. Kimi was made to look strong but he was fighting Genin at the time, Gai is one of the top Jounin in the most powerful village. Gai with his 6 Gates and Morning Peacock, would completely overwhelm Kimimaro.


There is a stark difference between Chuunin exam Gaara... and Retrieval Arc Gaara.... Nevermind RT Gaara and Kazekage Gaara. I think it would do well to remember that distinction. It's totally un-befitting of arguments to bring up evidence that is clearly not worth it.... And even in that example, Gaara was exausted.

Gaara overwhelemed Kimimaro.... and he still managed to live.
I don't really undertand how people are dismissing the fact that Kimi was buried thousands of feet below the earth and CRUSHED.... And still survived. Not only survived, but came back stronger each time.

Gai's Morning Peacock would certainly beat down 90% of any person it's used against. But Kimimaro is one of those people who naturally have a defence that counter/negates those physical attacks by making that Damage negligible.

[Spike Spiegal]

There is a stark difference between Chuunin exam Gaara... and Retrieval Arc Gaara.... Nevermind RT Gaara and Kazekage Gaara. I think it would do well to remember that distinction. It's totally un-befitting of arguments to bring up evidence that is clearly not worth it.... And even in that example, Gaara was exausted.


Gaara overwhelemed Kimimaro.... and he still managed to live.
I don't really undertand how people are dismissing the fact that Kimi was buried thousands of feet below the earth and CRUSHED.... And still survived. Not only survived, but came back stronger each time.

Gai's Morning Peacock would certainly beat down 90% of any person it's used against. But Kimimaro is one of those people who naturally have a defence that counter/negates those physical attacks by making that Damage negligible.

I don't understand the point of your lecture,
1.Though he improved his base skills,Gaara fought Kimi without even transforming, he was arguably stronger when he fought Naruto.
2.When was Kimi ever buried thousands of feet underground and crushed? Only instance that comes close wasn't even close to 1000 feet and Kimi countered it before it was over.
3.Morning Peacock isn't just physical/Tai, it also incorporates lethal Katon/ninjutsu as well.

Understand this, Gaara and Kimi were, more or less on par with each other, at most, on Par with Sasuke and Naruto at the VotE. As impressive as these kids were, Jounin like Kakashi and Gai would destroy them, as proof, when Sasuke achieved his 3 tomoe sharingan, he was then able to counter 1 tail Naruto, Kakashi has already mastered 3 tomoe, and was a lot faster than Sasuke at the time(not to mention, Generally better in every way). (Kimi/Gaara/Naruto/Sasuke)None of them would stand a chance against him, and Gai was said to be Kakashi's Equal/Rival.

Point is, what can't be countered or what's impressive against genin vs.genin, can't/isn't comparable against a high-level jounin, such as Gai.

[Delbi]

This fight doesn't come down to who is more powerful, Kimi or Gai.

For all intents and purposes, a healthy Kimi had to be damn powerful considering Oroichimaru wanted to use him as his new container, so he was obviously much more powerful than we saw against Gaara.

In any event, Gai has about 13 years of experience on him, he is a master at taijutsu. Kimi had enough trouble fighting Lee, imagine what would happen if he fought Gai with about, I don't know, 6 gates open.

Kimi was fast, but I highly doubt he would be able to keep up with Gai's speed, especially when Gai opened his chakra gates.

For arguments sake though, Gai's chakra gate punches aren't as strong as the pressure Gaara used on Kimi.

Ok, if that is true, and it does make sense that it is, if Gai lands enough hits on Kimi's head, he's going to knock him out, or bruise his brain so bad it would kill him. If he hits him in his heart enough, it'll stop. He doesn't need to break his bones, Kimi is still human, and can be killed in other ways.

Bottom line, Gai has more experience and his fighting ability is greater than that of Gaara and Lee, much greater in fact from what we have seen in the small glimpse against Kisame.

[Raizen]

Kimi had no problem with Lees Speed.
Lee needed to be unpredictable ala Drunken Fist in order to be somewhat effective.

Force is not necessarily better than crushing force.
It's like the difference between a car driving into you at 100mph.... Or a 1Ton weight being dropped on you from 100yds up.
Gai might not be able to keep his arms and legs from getting trapped within Kimi's bones early on in the fight... and with CS, the strength of Kimis bones also goes up.

You need to inflict internal damage in order to defeat Kimi... problem is, it's vitually impossible from what we know. His bones are just that strong.

Gai at 6 Gates, from what we saw... Didnt do nearly enough damage to break through Kimi's bones outright.

And lest we forget.... If Gai should not finish the job with his Gates,.... He's weakened, and easily finished off.
1- Yes, the speed of a ninja who just recovered a serious injury that could have destroyed his chance of being a ninja. Even gaara commented he was much slower.
2- that analogy is wrong. A car hits u in one direction and so does a dropped weight. So both resembles a punch. Regardless of what u believe, if there are 2 equal forces and one is focused while the other is distributed, which is more lethal?
3- The whole u need to inflict internal damage is a speculation. In the end, he is still human. And his body bleed and aches. it can only take abuse for so much. The thing is CS hides teh pain so that he can keep on fighting, but it is still there. moreover, how exactly did 6 gates not impress u? it destroyed the clone kisame as if it were nothing

[mattiaildivino]

I want just to said that Kimimaro,in his last day,while he was dying he defeat Naruto(powered with fox's chakra),lee and Gaara. now we are considering someone healthy so Kimimaro here is one of the strongest,however Gai with 7 gates or more should win.

[RezzieThaRapper]

I think anything over 6-Gates would win...

Maybe even less... after all strong fist has been noted as a style of exterior damage... a style that breaks bones.. A man who uses bones seems to be nothing more than an extended work out to guy...

I mean even though this thread was before Gai & Kisame's final battle... we now know that Gai can break mountains with air pressure...

If a punch in that form were to connect (and Kimimaro is used to taking attacks head on, as an advantage to his Kekkai Genkai) It would reduce the recieving end into participles of dust, not even molecule length... It's like amaratsu in a fist, it's instant death, your ground into nothingness... Creamation without a flame... nothing but ash left..

[LnDRash]

Kisame was alive and pretty much only badly bruised after taking the tiger into his face, so I doubt it would do much more to Kimi then tossing him around.

[kingplaya(minato)]

Gai is a gr8 ninja with crazy strength and i think he would have the advantage throughout cuz he's faster than kimi but kimi's very durable and would take in most that gai's got(even in gates mode cuz of CS) bt i just gtta say that if gai doesn't finish him up with the gates, when he gets weak from the strain that kimi might just have a little bit more left in the tank to finish him off... Gai has the edge but...

[mattiaildivino]

kisame survived after the afternoon tiger,then if kimimaro doesn't die,gai is done for,cause after a bit he can't move.

[shinsengumi]

that afternoon tiger shrinked before it hit kisame and even that was strong enough to crush him
morning peacock and afternoon tiger both look very capable of breaking kimimaro to me

[Aki1991]

guy is beside kakashi the strongest jonin we saw in konoha

i doubt he would loose to a child like kimimaro

you forget that kisame is the physically strongest character in naruto

ye kimi is good, but i must give this to guy^^

[mattiaildivino]

but you are considering a kimimaro as we saw him.when we saw him he was dying,but he defeated naruto(powered with kyubi's chakra) lee(with a gate) and a more powerful gaara! it was some moments before dying. if it is at his 100% he would defeat gai with 6gates,and maybe he could win even agaist the afternoon tiger.of course we don't know if gai can use the 8th gate,in this case probably not even susanoo would resist.

[Aki1991]

you´re right xD
kimi was ill
but guy can open all gates, i think this was said in the manga before shipudden

kimi is imba, but guy can reach kage level with 8 gates but he would die, too

but so he does´nt loose

[MonsterEnvy]

no matter how strong Gai is he can't break Kimmimaro's bones

Orochimaru said it was indestrucable meaning he has no way to break them

also Kimmimaro was said to be around Orochimaru's level in power

even if Guy uses all 8 gates he has no way to break Kimmimaro's bones

Guy is winning only because people forget that Kimmi was sick and only at 10% of his power

[mattiaildivino]

people forget that Kimmi was sick and only at 10% of his power

probably less! it was a moment before dying,then he would be at his 6 or 7 % cause he used all of his remaining strength. however you are forgetting 2 points:
1)you say kimimaro was around orochimaru's level,but kisame was at that level too,more or less.do you intend kimi ill or healthy?
2)kimimaro's bones were indestrucable...really? and what about thishttp://www.mangareader.net/93-222-3/naruto/chapter-217.html ? and I want you to remember that it was his thickest bone http://www.mangareader.net/93-221-13/naruto/chapter-216.html

[MonsterEnvy]

probably less! it was a moment before dying,then he would be at his 6 or 7 % cause he used all of his remaining strength. however you are forgetting 2 points:
1)you say kimimaro was around orochimaru's level,but kisame was at that level too,more or less.do you intend kimi ill or healthy?
2)kimimaro's bones were indestrucable...really? and what about thishttp://www.mangareader.net/93-222-3/naruto/chapter-217.html ? and I want you to remember that it was his thickest bone http://www.mangareader.net/93-221-13/naruto/chapter-216.html

does guy have anything as strong as the pressure that Gaara can bring with his sand

cause last time i checked his most powerful move did not even kill Kisame and Oro is more powerful then Kisame as well

Guy has nothing that he has shown that can beat Kimmimaro and thats why he would win

[Aki1991]

I think the gates are more than enough for kimi. Gai is beside kakashi the strongest jonin in konoha

[LnDRash]

Kimimaro was 15 when he died, the same age as Naruto and Sasuke in part 2, so please spare me with this "Gai wouldn't lose to a child" bullshit ;p

[MonsterEnvy]

you forget that kisame is the physically strongest character in naruto

Kimmimaro is better at Taijutsu then Kisame and i can name 5 people off the top of my head that are stronger then Kisame physically

Tsunade
Sakura
Sage mode Naruto and Jiriaya
Kakuzu

[kingplaya(minato)]

Just as sasuke is imba cuz of sharingan, thats how kimi is so strong even if he was 15...
Guy would have a hard time against the kimi that was using only his will to move then if he had his strength and will then i gotta say this guy is near sannin level less the experience and guy isnt at that level...

[Aki1991]

i mean kisame is the one with the greatest power in his body without cheating!

[Delbi]

Kimmimaro is better at Taijutsu then Kisame and i can name 5 people off the top of my head that are stronger then Kisame physically

Tsunade
Sakura
Sage mode Naruto and Jiriaya
Kakuzu

I doubt Kakuzu is, I think it was his Iron Skin technique that aided in his strength. And the other four need chakra to boost their strength, Kisame doesn't.

If anyone is physically stronger than him it's the Raikage.

[Aki1991]

Kimi, sannin level? o_O are you serious? Hahahhahhahaahaaha,sry, this was funnyO:-)

[mattiaildivino]

Kimi, sannin level? o_O are you serious? Hahahhahhahaahaaha,sry, this was funnyO:-)

Kimimaro was stronger than naruto with fox's chakra,lee with a gate and gaara! it was the day he died,you can imagine how he would have been full healthy!!!! kishi himself said he would have been at orochimaru's level.

[xXan]

Kimimaro was strogner than naruto with fox's chakra,lee with a gate and gaara! it was the day he died,you can imagine how he would have been full healthy!!!! kishi himself said he would have been at orochimaru's level.

Gara almost got beat up by Kid Lee ..big deal. I most defenetly don't put Kimi anywhere close to sannin level...
Hell i put even Kakashi well above him.

As for this battle i defenetly go with Gai.

[Aki1991]

never ever is kimi sannin level, yes he is strong but not sannin level

[MonsterEnvy]

Gara almost got beat up by Kid Lee ..big deal. I most defenetly don't put Kimi anywhere close to sannin level...
Hell i put even Kakashi well above him.

As for this battle i defenetly go with Gai.
did you see Kimmimaro fighting when he was not dying

never ever is kimi sannin level, yes he is strong but not sannin level

the dude was at 10% of hispower or less he was dying and he still kicked everyones asses

Guy and Kakashi have nothing that could break his bones Kimmi was stronger then a few members of Akatsuki

[xXan]

did you see Kimmimaro fighting when he was not dying


the dude was at 10% of hispower or less he was dying and he still kicked everyones asses

Guy and Kakashi have nothing that could break his bones Kimmi was stronger then a few members of Akatsuki

Have you? If not its really irrelevant because you can only bring asumtions ... Even the % could be wrong ... Do you got proof that he was at 10% or is this just some asumtion?

Guy and Kakashi have nothing to brake his bones? You mean the same bone that got obliterated by just hitting Gara defence thing(this was the most powerfull bone he could create to)? Riiiighhhttt. Kakashi can just trow his but in another dimension or put a hole in his face with Raikiri. Guy could use gates to move so fast that Kimi is not going to even comprehent him and use that big move that he used vs Fish Face.

[Rikudou King]

Kimimaro was also able to survive the pressure of 200m underground, So he does have some tough durability. And considering he has some limited healing and can replace any broken bones, I don't see Gai having an easy time.

Concerning his strength compared to the Sannins, Orochimaru also trained and plan to take Sasuke's body, Yet Sasuke admitted he wasn't as strong as Orochimaru. So while Kimimaro was a candidate to be Orochimaru's new host, That doesn't mean he was as strong as Orochimaru or the other Sannins.

[LnDRash]

Guy could use gates to move so fast that Kimi is not going to even comprehent him and use that big move that he used vs Fish Face.

Which would do nothing to Kimi since it didn't even knock out Sharky, another point black punch into his gut was required for that.

I know Sharky is a very tough and durable Ninja that can tank a lot of damage, but I have no reason to asume he's even closely as durable as Kimimaro.

[Aki1991]

Have you? If not its really irrelevant because you can only bring asumtions ... Even the % could be wrong ... Do you got proof that he was at 10% or is this just some asumtion?

Guy and Kakashi have nothing to brake his bones? You mean the same bone that got obliterated by just hitting Gara defence thing(this was the most powerfull bone he could create to)? Riiiighhhttt. Kakashi can just trow his but in another dimension or put a hole in his face with Raikiri. Guy could use gates to move so fast that Kimi is not going to even comprehent him and use that big move that he used vs Fish Face.

totally agree^^

kimi was strong, but even gaaras sand destrody his biggest bone

[LnDRash]

kimi was strong, but even gaaras sand destrody his biggest bone

It wasn't Gaara's sand, what distroyed the bone where minerals compressed by thousand tons of earth.

[licentious1]

I could see Gai breaking Kimi's bones. Kimi regenerates any broken bones leading to Gai ripping out Kimi's arms by the socket and beating him over the head with them. Kimi regenerates his arms, skull, and insulting youth. Gai reacts by raging and ripping out Kimi's internal organs. Kimi cannot regenerate his internal organs so he professes his love of Oro and dies. Gai pronounces his "love of youth" and does 200 laps around the fighting arena on Kimi's desocketed arms. Naruto eats ramen.

[Raizen]

did you see Kimmimaro fighting when he was not dying


the dude was at 10% of hispower or less he was dying and he still kicked everyones asses

Guy and Kakashi have nothing that could break his bones Kimmi was stronger then a few members of Akatsuki
His illness only took effect at the end of the battle. From there on, he was fighting full strength. Same deal with itachi.
Where are people getting these ridiculous claims from? Stop reaching!!!

Kimi is strong, perhaps kakashi's level. But sannin... NO!

[LnDRash]

Sorry I disagree, there where some differences between Itach and Kimimaro.

First of all Itachi was still walking around with his illness, while Kimimaro was being kept alive in a hospital bed by Kabutos machines. And then there is the phrase Kimimaro said himself: "My body is useless, I'am moving it through willpower alone".

So yes, he was in a considerably weakened state for the whole fight, not just the few moments before his death. He was even commenting during the fight how he's running out of time, which means his condition became worse and worse as they where fighting.

[Raizen]

Sorry I disagree, there where some differences between Itach and Kimimaro.

First of all Itachi was still walking around with his illness, while Kimimaro was being kept alive in a hospital bed by Kabutos machines. And then there is the phrase Kimimaro said himself: "My body is useless, I'am moving it through willpower alone".

So yes, he was in a considerably weakened state for the whole fight, not just the few moments before his death. He was even commenting during the fight how he's running out of time, which means his condition became worse and worse as they where fighting.
The machine were meant to stabilize his condition.
And I would think CS also gives him a boost in strength allowing him to fight at his fullest

[Delbi]

His illness only took effect at the end of the battle. From there on, he was fighting full strength. Same deal with itachi.
Where are people getting these ridiculous claims from? Stop reaching!!!

Kimi is strong, perhaps kakashi's level. But sannin... NO!

His illness certainly had a factor in him being 100%. Unlike Itachi, who was hacking up blood at the end, Kimi just died.

Kimi had the cursed seal to keep him alive and Itachi had medicine.

Saying that, the only thing that their disease could truly affect would be things like speed, strength, and stamina. Kimi didn't seem to lack in any of those except stamina in the end, but that was probably due to the cursed seal.

[kingplaya(minato)]

Whoever is placing their stock on kimi's indestructable bones by oro's words have gotta have a re-think...
Gaara's sand was 'absolute'...chidori came
Amatarasu was inescapable...raikage came
And a whole lot more assumptions have been trashed by kishi himself.
That aside, gai would have a hard against kimi in healthy which we dont know so we could as well push him into god-tier cuz we don't know much bout him...
Gai is capable but kimi is also