Sasuke runs the gauntlet

[ninjabot]

Similar to Franckie's "Itachi runs the gauntlet", we'll be comparing Sasuke's skill, intelligence, and power to the most powerful of ninja in the series to guage his 1337ness.

The list has been edited to avoid fights that have already taken place either in the manga or in the Konohagakure Arena. Fight takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena, and Sasuke's only allowed MS jutsu is Amaterasu and the Genjutsu that is assumed to be Tsukiyomi. Unless things get too one-sided, then MS will be removed.

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi

And remember, each fight is like a completely different event. Sasuke isn't running through them all in one fell swoop. Have at it, and despite what you believe: no bashing/flaming. Keep any beef you have with the CHARACTER, not his fans.

[Ayle]

Round 06: Complete victory of Hachibi. The only reason Sasuke won is because the rest of his team protected him.
Round 09: Complete Victory of Hitachi. Hitachi was winning until his illness got the best of him.

[ninjabot]

^What about the other EIGHT fights in the thread? Likewise, we'd love an explination of how Hachibi manages to survive against Sasuke when he's not intentionally holding back.

Both ninja are aware of their previous fight.

[Delbi]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi

Round 1: Sasuke wins, Tsuande lacks jutsu to defend against Sasuke's long range jutsu.
Round 2: Sasuke loses, he admitted inferiority to Orochimaru who is weaker than Jiraiya, likewise, Jiraiya also knows about the MS abilites, his biggest worry would be have Ameratsu summoned on him.
Round 3: Tie, we don't know much about Kisame as of yet.
Round 4: Sasuke owns Gaara, way to fast for Gaara and as we have seen before his Chidori is superior to Gaara's sand.
Round 5: Sasuke wins, barely. Kimi is good, but Sasuke is probably faster even when he is in CS2 mode. Not to mention he has more long range than Kimi and has his sword to help in close range. He could read Kimi's movements with his Sharigan as well. MS helps a lot too.
Round 6: Tough call, I'll go with Sasuke though seeing as how he is highly intelligent and won't be underestimating him this time. Won't waste a Tsyukiyomi either.
Round 7: Sasori: Sasori is a monster and even with his Sharigan, Sasuke would have trouble keeping up with endless puppets. Sasuke loses
Round 8: Sasuke, Asuma would give him some slight trouble because of his Futon: but he doesn't use Futon enough. Kurenai is useless because all she has in genjutsu which won't affect Sasuke.
Round 9: Itachi wins hands down, no explanation needed.
Round 10: Tie, old Saruturobi would probably have to resort to Death God and kill them both.

[jodi]

Similar to Franckie's "Itachi runs the gauntlet", we'll be comparing Sasuke's skill, intelligence, and power to the most powerful of ninja in the series to guage his 1337ness.

The list has been edited to avoid fights that have already taken place either in the manga or in the Konohagakure Arena. Fight takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena, and Sasuke's only allowed MS jutsu is Amaterasu and the Genjutsu that is assumed to be Tsukiyomi. Unless things get too one-sided, then MS will be removed.

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi

And remember, each fight is like a completely different event. Sasuke isn't running through them all in one fell swoop. Have at it, and despite what you believe: no bashing/flaming. Keep any beef you have with the CHARACTER, not his fans.

1: as she is based on taijutsu I don't see her wining against the sharingan
2: Jiraiya, no wonder
3: tough fight, since Kisame shown so much respect to sharingan... I think it would be SAsuke victory because his attributes are overpowered, but would be nearly death fight
4: well, Gaara is incredible powered, but he is doton based and sasuke is pratically a eletricity tower, so I guess Sasuke would win
5: tough fight again, but I guess Kimimaro isn't that strong and as he is based on taijutsu, sharingan would be in great advantage, Sasuke wins again
6: Hachibi would win it, I don't see Sasuke strong enough to stop the 8 tails
7: Sasori, Sasuke is strong but Sasori is just one of the most powerful that I saw in the manga, he was able to make Kabuto his servant(which was considered kakshi's level in part 1) and had the strongest Kazekage as his puppet, I really don't see Sasori losing to anyone but the abyssal ones(Madara, first etc) and still a very hard battle
8: lol, Sasuke for sure
9: Itachi.
10: tough fight, really tough one. If it was young Sarutobi I would say him without doubt, as he was very strong in his old age. But as he is old I think he would still win(got ya! xD), because he was Hokage and old one, so I guess he would know Sasuke's tricks and I don't think that Sasuke would be able to fight a killing intent Sarutobi, even if he is old

[Delbi]

10: tough fight, really tough one. If it was young Sarutobi I would say him without doubt, as he was very strong in his old age. But as he is old I think he would still win(got ya! xD), because he was Hokage and old one, so I guess he would know Sasuke's tricks and I don't think that Sasuke would be able to fight a killing intent Sarutobi, even if he is old

Keep in mind Sarturobi doesn't know half of Sasuke's jutsu because he created them himself. Not to mention he has no way to counter Ameratsu.

As for killing intent, this is Sasuke we are talking about, he's the KING of killing intent.

Saying that, I don't think either will live after all is said and done.

[ninjabot]

I agree with everything except Jiraiya, which I'll refer you to the Sasuke 100% vs. Orochimaru 100% thread in this forum. I'm 110% positive that Jiraiya is more susceptible to Sasuke's Genjutsu than Orochimaru was. Though this is definately a fight that would be better if a whole thread was set about it, so I'll stop there.

[Delbi]

I agree with everything except Jiraiya, which I'll refer you to the Sasuke 100% vs. Orochimaru 100% thread in this forum. I'm 110% positive that Jiraiya is more susceptible to Sasuke's Genjutsu than Orochimaru was. Though this is definately a fight that would be better if a whole thread was set about it, so I'll stop there.

Except Sasuke doesn't use Genjutsu outside of Tsyukiyomi which requires eye contact. He didn't use genjutsu on Orochimaru as much as he reversed the technique on him with his eyes.

The only time we see Sasuke using regular genjutsu was against his brother, and the whole battle was going on between their minds via Sharigan genjutsu.

Sasuke only uses Sharigan Genjutsu is what I'm getting at. Jiraiya just has to not look in Sasuke eyes which he knows not to do.

[ninjabot]

It's hardly that simple. If he's looking at his opponent whether to avoid incoming jutsu, attempt to capitalize on their recovery time, or coming in to close the distance so that he can counter-attack, his eyes are facing the direction of Sasuke's eyes.

The only person in the series that can win a fight by just watching the enemy's feet would be Gai, admitted by Asuma. Unless we're to assume Jiraiya's Taijutsu is better than/as good as Konoha's Taijutsu specialist.

And yeah, I'm aware he only uses Sharingan Genjutsu. That's the very type of Genjutsu he used to immobilize Orochimaru the same way Itachi did.

[Delbi]

It's hardly that simple. If he's looking at his opponent whether to avoid incoming jutsu, attempt to capitalize on their recovery time, or coming in to close the distance so that he can counter-attack, his eyes are facing the direction of Sasuke's eyes.

The only person in the series that can win a fight by just watching the enemy's feet would be Gai, admitted by Asuma. Unless we're to assume Jiraiya's Taijutsu is better than/as good as Konoha's Taijutsu specialist.

And yeah, I'm aware he only uses Sharingan Genjutsu. That's the very type of Genjutsu he used to immobilize Orochimaru the same way Itachi did.

Jiraiya does have a 5 in taijutsu in the databook, he certainly is good at it.

You don't have to look at a person's feet to read their movements, its much easier to look at their hips as you can see which direction they are going. It's not hard to not look into someone's eyes.

[ninjabot]

You don't have to look at a person's feet to read their movements, its much easier to look at their hips as you can see which direction they are going. It's not hard to not look into someone's eyes.

...until you start taking sword wounds from not being able to see high-speed overhanded strikes with your perepheral vision. Say Sasuke swings an overhead chop with his sword at Jiraiya from behind. He turns to counter the blow, but is looking down at Sasuke's waist and hips to avoid Genjutsu.

What happens?

A highly conditional situation, sure. But not the least bit improbably when considering Sasuke's speed. He and Jiraiya have the same speed stat, but remember: Sasuke and Deidara ALSO had the same speed stat. Were they equals in speed?

[jodi]

...until you start taking sword wounds from not being able to see high-speed overhanded strikes with your perepheral vision. Say Sasuke swings an overhead chop with his sword at Jiraiya from behind. He turns to counter the blow, but is looking down at Sasuke's waist and hips to avoid Genjutsu.

What happens?

A highly conditional situation, sure. But not the least bit improbably when considering Sasuke's speed. He and Jiraiya have the same speed stat, but remember: Sasuke and Deidara ALSO had the same speed stat. Were they equals in speed?

the databook stats are all messed up
come on, gaara is close to iruka in that databook
and if you don't want to stress yourself, don't look what position tenten is in the sum of stats...

[kkck]

Sasuke doesnt make it past round one. TSUNADE IS THE FREAKING HOKAGE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD lol.
Given what we have seen, the only ones sasuke would stand a chance of defeating are kimimaru, gaara, asuma + kurenai and kisame. Maybe MS would give him the edge in a few battles but I dont see him defeating tsunade, jiraiya, hachibi and itachi.

[En Yang Ji]

1. Based on what we've seen Tsunade would lose. Sasuke would beat her in close range combat. He has longer range thanks to Kusangai, and can dodge all of her punches thanks to the sharingan.

2. I think it depends on the situation. Most of the time I think Sasuke would win with a combination of shunshin and kusanagi.

5. Sasuke would win due to genjutsu.

6. Sasuke would win because of MS

[Franckie]

Round 01: Win.
Round 02: ???. Can't make up my mind here, though I'm slightly leaning with Sasuke here. Both Sasuke and Jiraiya are on par with each other. Sasuke is superior to Jiraiya (Base), but SM Jiraiya is a different matter altogether, and Jiraiya can easily stall Sasuke with summons and/or the barrier trick.
Round 03: Win.
Round 04: Win.
Round 05: Win.
Round 06: ???. It's hard to say who will win since both fighters are in the same league. Granted, Sasuke did win the fight, but Hachibi proved to be resilient to Amaterasu's black flames, and Killer Bee actually doesn't need Sasuke's help to cleave a part of himself off to escape Amaterasu. In addition, Killer Bee has seen the tech and will do his darn best to keep Sasuke on the defensive. Although I'm leaning towards Killer Bee, I don't see him walking away from this fight without a few major injuries.
Round 07: Win.
Round 08: Win.
Round 09: Win, though barely. As Itachi vs Sasuke showed, Itachi does not stand a chance against Sasuke without the MS. Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are useless against Sasuke. Itachi can win with Susano-O, but he can only maintain it for so long. Furthermore, Sasuke knows Susano-O carries a great risk and that he can force his older brother to resort to the move via unleashing Kirin.
Round 10: Win.


Sasuke doesnt make it past round one. TSUNADE IS THE FREAKING HOKAGE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD lol.
Given what we have seen, the only ones sasuke would stand a chance of defeating are kimimaru, gaara, asuma + kurenai and kisame. Maybe MS would give him the edge in a few battles but I dont see him defeating tsunade, jiraiya, hachibi and itachi.

A Hokage's job is to protect the village. Tsunade's worth as a Hokage is not going out and superpunching the bad guy, her worth is healing Konoha's fighters (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/421/16/) so they can fight again.

Why does she do this? Because she's one hell of a medic and not primarily a fighter.

[Spike Spiegal]

Sasuke wouldn't get out of the 2nd Round.

Round1:Sasuke v. Tsunade
A very close fight, but I'd give the edge to Sasuke, He is gonna have trouble coming in close to fight Tsunade because 1 hit=K.O. but he has enough mid-range jutsu to get the job done. Tsunade has the advantage of self healing, larger chakra capacity, Summons, and EXP. But Sasuke has speed and higher level offensive jutsu that i think wins it in the end.

Round2:Sasuke v. Jiraiya
Game Over. First off, if I remember correctly Sasuke DB Stats are 31, far less than Jiraiya's(35) and when he goes into Sage Mode, which he won't have too much trouble doing, Sasuke's toast. Jiraiya has seen 2 of Sasuke's 3 best jutsu(Tsukiyomi,Amaterasu), and after witnessing them he still felt very confident in fighting an Uchiha(Itachi) so you could assume that with all his EXP he knows how to fight the sharingan,remember just because Jiraiya doesn't have an affinity for Genjutsu doesn't mean he can't defend against it. HM Jiraiya>Sasuke in almost every aspect.

Round3:Sasuke v. Kisame-Tie. Simply because we don't know enough about Kisame. Kisame would have the elemental advantage(Water>Fire) and definately a much larger chakra capacity, Sasuke would have trouble getting in close because of his chakra absorbing sword, it's also a + that he is a swordsman and he does have a very useful area jutsu.If Kisame has a couple of S-Rank jutsu on the level of Sasuke's I'd give the edge to Kisame, but, that remains to be seen.

Round4:Sasuke v. Gaara- one of his easiest fights.It's simple:Lightning>Earth. another way to look at it is Sasuke>Dei. An uprepared, half-power(didn't use his best jutsu and never seemed to loose his cool,unlike his fight with Sasuke) Beat Gaara in a desert with AMPLE amount of Sand at his disposal, while he was a Jinchuuriki. Now that he's fighting in the Chunnin Exams Arena and doesn't have the Shukaku,he hasn't a chance.

Round5:Sasuke v. Kimmimaro-Sasuke, just more powerful ninjustu, though if Kimi would have lived through the Time skip it might have been a different outcome.

Round6:Sasuke v. Hachibi-Not even close. If Sasuke with Taka couldn't beat Hachibi, how can Sasuke, alone, even stand a chance with his unaltered skill set? Genjutsu=useless MS=useless lightning=useless(basically) sword skills=useless tai=useless

Round7:Sasuke v. Sasori very close fight but Sasori would win in the end. the sharingan wouldn't do well against Sasori's sheer numbers and countless "tricks". he is also very likely to be unaffected by Genjutsu.Sasori is also very hard to kill because of his "alterations" and has very high stamina, very Oro-esque in alot of ways.

Round8:Sasuke v. Asuma+ Kurenai- his easiest match. they would do well for a while until Sasuke brings out the MS.

Round9:Sasuke v. Itachi Itachi by a hair. It would be as close as it was in there first fight but, with full knowledge of each others abilities it'll be really tough for both fighters, but with Itachi at 100%, I think it'll be just enough to decide the winner.

Round10:Sasuke v. Old Sarutobi-Tie. Sarutobi is an OG, he's not losing unless he takes his opponent with him, I predict,Death God wins in the end.

4 wins, 4 losses,and 2 ties.

[killbill]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
first off..interesting thread..
now let's see hmmm...
Round 01:sauske will definately win this won..tsunade's a medical ninja..there's no way she can beat him..
Round 02:personally i think jiraya will win...remember that itach says in part 1 to kisame that jiraya could beat them both...so i think jiraya's the winner..
Round 3:i don't really know about this one...since we don't know about kisame's true strenght...
Round 4:if garra has one-tail maybe he can win..provided his sand shield protects him from amatersu..
Round 5:really tough one i guess...i think kimmimaro will lose because of sauske's ms..
Round 6:100% hachibi...he will beat the crap out of sauske this time...the only reason he was able to live after that fight was because of his friends...sauske had wet his pants..lol
Round 7:this will be really interesting...no genjutsu will affect sasori since he's a puppet...sasori's a genius...there's a 50% chance he'll win...
Round 8:hahaha...what do u think...?they wont stand a chance...
Round 9:definately itachi...after susano itachi is invincible as said by zetsu....itachi's gonna win by reflecting his awesomeness...lol..
Round 10: sauske....

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Similar to Franckie's "Itachi runs the gauntlet", we'll be comparing Sasuke's skill, intelligence, and power to the most powerful of ninja in the series to guage his 1337ness.

The list has been edited to avoid fights that have already taken place either in the manga or in the Konohagakure Arena. Fight takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena, and Sasuke's only allowed MS jutsu is Amaterasu and the Genjutsu that is assumed to be Tsukiyomi. Unless things get too one-sided, then MS will be removed.

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi


Round 1: Sasuke win, Tsunade ain't a fighter
Round 2: Jiraiya wins with medium effort
Round 3: Tie. Kisame is well aware of the sharingans abilities.
Round 4: Given the fact that will don't know how strong Gaara is right now, i will have to give Sasuke the win
Round 5. Sasuke win
Round 6: Sasuke without Taka? Hachibi will whop his ass faster/nastier than he did before. Hachibi will be serious this time too.
Round 7: Sasori win, i don't see how Sasuke can keep up and avoid all of his puppets. And one scratch from one puppet equals game over.
Round 8: Uhmm...Sasuke wins with medium effort.
Round 9: Itachi will destroy Sasuke
Round 10: Tie. Both Ninja die because of the Death God seal. I guess that will also make it a Sarutobi win.

[Forever_Melody]

Basically, these types of threads are just a "multiple vs threads in one"? O_o What's the point? I mean, I already write half essays in the individual versus threads, making an 8 for 1 will just make the posts huger lol :XD Considering there is no special scenario to these other than simply putting all 8 fights into one thread, I don't see much advantage other than saving a bit of space(luckily very little arguments or very very elaborated reasons are given).

If I have to answer I'd say...

Round 1: Sasuke wins. Tsunade hasn't shown much to make her an enormous threat to Sasuke.

Round 2: Hard to gouge, but if Jiraiya manages to his HM, then he'd win IMO. But if this is Jiraiya base, then Sasuke can manage him. The question I guess falls to what strategy each uses.

Round 3: Hard to gouge since we know little of Kisame's complete abilities.

Round 4: Sasuke wins. Gaara's sand was already shown to be slower than pre-timeskip Sasuke and Sasuke's Raitno can deal with Gaara's sand.

Round 5: Sasuke wins. Kimimaro is probably on par if not better than Sasuke in taijutsu & close range, but Sasuke's other weapons in his arsenal would help him win.

Round 6: Assuming they have prior knowledge, Killerbee has a decent chance at winning if he can manage to avoid Amaterasu since he has shown that he can deal with Sasuke's other aspects.

Round 7: Sasuke wins. Although mostly thanks to his Sharingan which would allow him to dodge all of the poisonous attacks Sasori launched.

Round 8: Sasuke wins. Kurenai's genjutsu would prove little effective against Sasuke and Asuma is mostly close/mid-range himself. His Fuuton would help deal with Sasuke's Raiton though. Both are also susceptible to MS.

Round 9: Itachi IMO would win, but he'd have to work for it if both are aware of their previous fights. I wonder if they both launched Amaterasu what would happen lol :p

Round 10: I assume Sandaime would have to use Shiki Fuuin to even resort to a chance of winning so yeah, I agree with the tie everyone suggested.

So that makes:
- 5 wins
- 2 losses
- 3 undecided outcomes

That pretty much puts Sasuke up there with the best ^_^

[XxRyujinxX]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi

Round 1: Sasuke. Tsunade is strictly a medical ninja, and while her healing prowess is insanely high, her actual combat skills are somewhat lacking.

Round 2: I think I might have to give this one to Jiraiya. I think that Sasuke could give base Jiraiya a run for his money and vice-versa, but come Sage Mode, I don't think Sasuke would stand a chance. Jiraiya is at least somewhat familiar with Tsukuyomi, since he saw Itachi use it on Sasuke pre timeskip, and is probably innovative enough to keep Sasuke from using Amaterasu effectively.

Round 3: Like everyone else has said, we don't really know enough about Kisame to make a call on this one. It's too early in Kisame's battle history to be able to claim anything yet.

Round 4: Sasuke for sure. Sasuke's already shown that his Chidori is superior to Gaara's sand attacks, and there's always Amaterasu if Gaara moves too far out of range.

Round 5: Sasuke again. Kimimaro's main high points are his speed and his defense. Sasuke's lightning techniques make Kimimaro's defense obsolete, and Sasuke with the Sharingan could definitely keep up with Kimimaro, even in CS2 form.

Round 6: Hachibi. Sasuke was having his ass kicked by Kirabi before he went full eight tails with its lack of mobility, which I think is what lead to his downfall. If he stays seven tails or less, he has the mobility and firepower necessary to take down Sasuke and his Sharingan techniques no problem.

Round 7: This one is tough. Sasuke showed us how much of a projectile master he was against Itachi, so it would be difficult for Sasori to hit him with his senbon attacks. Then again, senbon are definitely smaller than shuriken and probably harder to deflect, so this ones up in the air. I think Sasuke could handle Sandaime Kazekage, since Sasuke could use similar tactics as he'd use against Gaara, and his speed would help him avoid a lot of Sandaime's large-scale moves. I think Sasori's 100 puppets is what it would come down to, especially since even a single scratch is lethal. In the end though, I might give it to Sasuke, since he seems to be pretty good at fighting a bunch of opponents.

Round 8: Sasuke. He's got the fire advantage over Asuma's wind, and he seems to have a bit more hit power than he does. Kurenai's Genjutsu would be useless against Sasuke due to the Sharingan, and like I said above, Sasuke seems to be pretty good at fighting multiple opponents.

Round 9: I'd give this to Itachi. Itachi has the utilities to nullify Amaterasu, and he could probably counter a Tsukuyomi if Sasuke threw that one out, given that he said somewhere that a Mange was necessary to beat it, plus the fact that Itachi's genjutsu skills are second to none. Itachi seems to be a bit faster than Sasuke, and he's definitely got more fire power than Sasuke, as long as Sasuke doesn't have the CS. What it would come down to would be whether or not Sasuke could get Itachi with Kirin, but Itachi's definitely bright enough to see this thing coming and block it with Susanoo, as he did the first time. And this time, Itachi would be going for the kill instead of for Sasuke's eyes, so once Susanoo comes out, I think it's pretty much over for Sasuke.

Round 10: Sasuke. Sarutobi just doesn't have the capability to keep up with Sasuke, and he hasn't shown a great amount of hit-power to keep up with some of Sasuke's jutsus. All he has against him is the death god, but it looks like that involves him actually getting up and grabbing him for a period of time. If Orochimaru was able to manipulate his Kusanagi sword while having his soul ripped out, I think Sasuke could manage a Chidori Nagashi or something to that extent.

[ninjabot]

Basically, these types of threads are just a "multiple vs threads in one"? O_o What's the point? I mean, I already write half essays in the individual versus threads, making an 8 for 1 will just make the posts huger lol Considering there is no special scenario to these other than simply putting all 8 fights into one thread, I don't see much advantage other than saving a bit of space(luckily very little arguments or very very elaborated reasons are given).

Pretty much. The longer the thread lasts, the better chance it turns into a popularity contest or flame war. I've got some good replies from everyone regarding the 3 fights that would've started the flaming (Jiraiya, Itachi, Gaara), but only because they aren't solely focused on.

If I went to make a Sasuke vs. Jiraiya thread, do you think it wouldn't turn into another Uchiha Bros. vs. Minato, Itachi vs. Jiraiya, or Sasuke vs. Naruto bash-a-thon? We'd get more descriptive answers, but even MORE descriptive insults. Just doing my part to help avoid the madness.

That, and it's been too long since Sasuke ran the Konohagakure Arena. I wanted him to return with a bang. What better way than laying waste to the majority of the series' heavy hitters?

[Forever_Melody]

Well I blame the people for that, not the thread lol :p

But point taken, I assume that if little reason is given, little can be flamed upon :tem

lol I find Sasuke shouldn't be the sole contender in the arena though since he's been done to death(and more so after this thread :p)

[Delbi]

My one gripe with a lot of peoples responses is the fact that a lot of people think Killerbee would own Sasuke.

Granted Killerbee didn't take the fight as serious as he once did, but Sasuke also underestimated him greatly. Add to the fact that they now both know each others abilities and I think we can all agree that Sasuke is indeed smart enough to formulate a good stradegy, I'd think Sasuke would win. Especially since Killerbee can't get away from Ameratsu unless he is in 8 tailed mode from what we have seen.

[Forever_Melody]

Well I don't think he'd "own" Sasuke, but he has a chance at winning. Arguably, Killerbee hasn't shown himself to be the greatest of tacticians, but there is a certain level of intelligence present within his character(if only by fighting instinct type of intelligence).

Also, aside from Amaterasu, Killerbee has shown that he can stand toe-to-toe and deal with most of Sasuke's arsenal so I'd say he stands a good chance seeing as now hed' know about Amaterasu as much as Sasuke knows about Killerbee's abilities.

[Delbi]

Well I don't think he'd "own" Sasuke, but he has a chance at winning. Arguably, Killerbee hasn't shown himself to be the greatest of tacticians, but there is a certain level of intelligence present within his character(if only by fighting instinct type of intelligence).

Also, aside from Amaterasu, Killerbee has shown that he can stand toe-to-toe and deal with most of Sasuke's arsenal so I'd say he stands a good chance seeing as now hed' know about Amaterasu as much as Sasuke knows about Killerbee's abilities.

Agreed, but just because you know about something doesn't mean you can beat it. I mean, Killerbee, from what we have seen does not have a huge aresnal of jutsu, he's a close range fighter who relies on his swords and biju.

Saying that, Sasuke wouldn't be wasting genjutsu, and he'd most likely keep his distance from him the whole time. I mean if Sasuke were to face him again, and knows how powerful he is, I don't think he'd hesitate to use Ameratsu if he had no other option. If Killerbee got hit with that while he wasn't in anything but his final transformation I'm not sure how he'd stop it.

[Forever_Melody]

Well there is no stopping Amaterasu once you're hit lol :p The trick is to not get to that situation >.> Arguably Sasuke did underestimate Killerbee and that nearly proved fatal for him twice, but Killerbee has some level of credit for it as well.

I do agree we haven't seen much for Killerbee to guarantee him a win, hence why I said he has a chance. I mean, Hachibichi commented on how he jumped straight to Bijyuu mode while he didn't need to so for all we know he had other options. but I can't say anything more since this is a void area >.>

[kkck]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
I Still think tsunade is being severely understimated. Even if tsunades main focus is fighting, as the hokage she still has above avarage fighting skills. I consider sasuke to be on the level of other elite ninjas such as asume and gai, but I still dont see him being able to defeat tsunade.
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
I would say jiraiya takes this one. not much to explain though...
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
This is kinda hard. Kisame clearly has the most firepower with his massive water jutsu and crazy strength but sasuke should have a speed and perhabs tactical advantage(jutsu variety and sharingan). Kisame does have advantage over sasukes chidori though. I think sasuke would take this in the end with MS but it would be hard for him.
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
I have no idea about gaaras current capacities. Would be an interesting fight though.
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
I am leaning towards sasuke in this one. I think chidori and chidoru sword can cut his kimis bones, so a good combination of speed, electric jutsu, genjutsu and sharingan would do the trick.
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
I think hachibi would take this one. Hachibi showed he could be unpredictable even to sharigan and was fast enough to actually catch him offguard. I do think sasuke understimated hachibi at first but through all the fight, I would say before he got killed the first time he was past the understimation point.
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
This one is kinda hard. If sasuke finds out about the heart, he could end it pretty fast. The puppet army could be decimated with amaterasu. Somehow I dont think sasuke could actually pull of a fight againts hiroku, kazekage, puppet army and finally real body all at once so I will give this one to sasori at the moment. Although if he starts by aiming amaterasu at the main body at the very beggining of the fight...
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
I dont think kurenais genjutso would work on sasuke at all, considering sasuke showed the level to scape itachis normal sharingan genjutsu and the debatable tsukioyomi. I dont think kurenai would be of much use in this battle given what we have seen. I think sasuke could handle either of them separately but if he alone is to fight 2 jonnin I guess he would ultimately lose.
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
Intersting match. I guess sasuke would be superior in the speed and stamina aspect, but sarutobi should still have better technique in other aspects of shinobi fight. Ultimately, even if sarutobi with enma can overpower sasuke, somehow I dont see him geting past MS so....

[Spike Spiegal]

My one gripe with a lot of peoples responses is the fact that a lot of people think Killerbee would own Sasuke.

Granted Killerbee didn't take the fight as serious as he once did, but Sasuke also underestimated him greatly. Add to the fact that they now both know each others abilities and I think we can all agree that Sasuke is indeed smart enough to formulate a good stradegy, I'd think Sasuke would win. Especially since Killerbee can't get away from Ameratsu unless he is in 8 tailed mode from what we have seen.

Hachibi showed total domination over all of Taka's members,especially Sasuke.

Your looking at things from Sasuke's eyes instead of the whole picture, sure Sasuke underestimated him the first time they exchanged blows, but what about the other 4 times he lost or would have been killed if it weren't for Taka who won't be present this time,Your telling me he underestimated Hachibi everytime? that would be very unlike his character. The only move that would serve use to Sasuke would be Amaterasu, everything else Sasuke did was negated or beaten, Sasuke would be totally overwhelmed. And if Hachibi could avoid the Amaterasu, without having ever seen it before, he'll surely do it again.Also, Hachibi used that JUTSU while he was 8 tails but, theres no evidence that says he can't do it in his base form, and it's possible that he has other ways to escape it, Hachibi didn't even looked fazed taking care of Sasuke's 4-man cell.

It doesn't matter if Sasuke underestimated Hachibi in the beggining of there fight and now knows not to(same goes for Hachibi), it doens't change the fact that Sasuke still used his best jutsu and hasn't gained anything since there last fight, Hachibi wasn't even serious and this time there is no Taka-to-the-Rescue.

[Delbi]

Hachibi showed total domination over all of Taka's members,especially Sasuke.

Your looking at things from Sasuke's eyes instead of the whole picture, sure Sasuke underestimated him the first time they exchanged blows, but what about the other 4 times he lost or would have been killed if it weren't for Taka who won't be present this time,Your telling me he underestimated Hachibi everytime? that would be very unlike his character. The only move that would serve use to Sasuke would be Amaterasu, everything else Sasuke did was negated or beaten, Sasuke would be totally overwhelmed. And if Hachibi could avoid the Amaterasu, without having ever seen it before, he'll surely do it again.Also, Hachibi used that JUTSU while he was 8 tails but, theres no evidence that says he can't do it in his base form, and it's possible that he has other ways to escape it, Hachibi didn't even looked fazed taking care of Sasuke's 4-man cell.

It doesn't matter if Sasuke underestimated Hachibi in the beggining of there fight and now knows not to(same goes for Hachibi), it doens't change the fact that Sasuke still used his best jutsu and hasn't gained anything since there last fight, Hachibi wasn't even serious and this time there is no Taka-to-the-Rescue.

I don't know, Sasuke showed he could fight a ninja superior to him in Itachi with enough prep time, and IMO Itachi is much more dangerous that Killerbee.

Killerbee also didn't avoid Amertasu, he escaped it. If Sasuke hit him with it from the beginning, while he was in his base form, he'd be fucked unless he started to transform again.

Sasuke made a lot of bad moves in the fight that he likely wouldn't repeat the second time around. Mostly he'd probably stay as far away from Killerbee as possible.

And as for "That jutsu" that Killerbee uesed, its similar if not identical to Naruto's Banshou Tenin (sp) that he uses while in Kyuubi mode. To do so, he needs to shoot it out of his mouth, which Killerbee has only shown able to do while in his final form.

I never said it would be easy for Sasuke, I just think he'd be able to take Killerbee on his own given a second chance and time to plan.

[Spike Spiegal]

I don't know, Sasuke showed he could fight a ninja superior to him in Itachi with enough prep time, and IMO Itachi is much more dangerous that Killerbee..
I guess that's why we have a difference in opinions, because I think Hachibi could beat Itachi as easy as he beat Sasuke, when Itachi and Sasuke fought, Sasuke didn't have MS, which to me, is the only gap in power they shared, Sasuke was stronger when he Fought Hachibi, about as strong as Itachi.

The only difference between Itachi and Sasuke is that Sasuke has a katana,more variety of Ninjutsu and another Element(although relatively useless against Killer Bee because he has the same element), while Itachi has Susanoo.


Itachi would lose against Hachibi easily for the fact that 90% of his skills are in Genjutsu(He is the best at it)and Hachibi is immune to Genjutsu, besides, lets face it, what other jutsu does Itachi know/shown besides KB and Katon?


Killerbee also didn't avoid Amertasu, he escaped it. If Sasuke hit him with it from the beginning, while he was in his base form, he'd be fucked unless he started to transform again. .

Actually, if he was in his base form, it would be much more difficult for sasuke to connect with the Amaterasu, since it's a much Smaller and Faster target he's dealing with, also, were assuming that he doesn't have any other jutsu he can use to Avoid/escape Amaterasu,because I doubt we have seen the full extent of Killer Bee's abilities.


Sasuke made a lot of bad moves in the fight that he likely wouldn't repeat the second time around. Mostly he'd probably stay as far away from Killerbee as possible.

That would throw a wrench in Sasukes arsenal/fighting style, most of Sasuke's attacks are short-to-Mid range, with the exception of Amaterasu, though at greater distances it will sacrifice much of it's accuracy.

Sasuke didn't make any bad moves against Hachibi, it seems like that in retrospect because Bee swatted down everything Sasuke threw at him but, at the time he did his best. Obviously, he now knows what not to do, but it still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know what to do.
Remember:
Lightning won't work,Hachibi has Lightning element
Genjutsu won't work, Synced Bijuu
sword won't work, Bee is better
Tai won't work, Bee was unfazed
Sharingan didn't help much
Bee Knows of Amaterasu

How will Sasuke win?


And as for "That jutsu" that Killerbee uesed, its similar if not identical to Naruto's Banshou Tenin (sp) that he uses while in Kyuubi mode. To do so, he needs to shoot it out of his mouth, which Killerbee has only shown able to do while in his final form.

I dont undestand this portion.


I never said it would be easy for Sasuke, I just think he'd be able to take Killerbee on his own given a second chance and time to plan.

I don't think Sasuke is allowed prep time in a Gauntlet match.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I seriously don't thinking Sasuke can take on Killerbee if they fight again. I don't even think the fight will be close. Killerbee(who wasn't taking the fight that serious) dominated Sasuke when he had help from Taka, i don't see how he is going to be able to do that much or anything against Killerbee alone. Unless Sasuke get some sort of power up, he will only get demolish by Killerbee. Especially if Killerbee takes the fight really serious.

[thatwouldbeawesome]

This thread seems like fun, I'm playing. Aiming for sub fan-fic quality. Tried to keep it short but it came out long.
@Knuckles - Your sig is horrid.

Spoiler tags denote vaguely mature content.
Don't click them if you are a little kid. :D
But I'm pretty funny!

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Quick flashback to the fight with Kabuto as Sasuke's chidori blade exploits Tsunade's reliance on melee. She recovers, the side effect is even larger jugs. I win fan-fic.
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya
Jiraiya's attempts to pose and announce his summons are foiled by the speed of Sasuke's shuriken volley, chidori blade, blah blah blah.
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame is spoiler tagged because it is long and pretty boring. I like Kisame.
Kisame is well placed to take the crown I think. That water dump that the 30% (I'm sure I've forgotten the percentage) Kisame dropped would pose real problems for Sasuke, both in terms of greatly limiting his movement (without CS2's winged goodness) and possibly intercepting (though not extinguishing) amaterasu. Sasuke's relatively low chakra would be compounded by Kisame's familiarity with Itachi's techniques.
How Kishi would write it: Sasuke walks on water (haha, first arc skillz) and calls lightning which he preposterously evades by jumping at just the right thanks to those damn eyes. Ha, satire.
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Ouch. Why nerf Gaara Kishi? Why?
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Kimmimaro puts out an eye with that crazy dancing.
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi
Killerbee beats him so comfortably that he is able to also simulataneously recite a flawless acapella of Grandmaster Flash's pioneering epic The Message in its entirety.
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Sasuke donates a space-saving fire/lightning heart, enabling plucky little Sasori, the luckiest immortal that could, to squeeze a liver back in. Sake ensues.
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai - Liberal genjutsu references :s
Kurenai makes the little hack see some mad trippy trees and like a rainbow that's actually Pakkun and some kind of like superior office paper that is as much a universe as it is an anachronism. At this point, Sasuke will realise Asuma's totally sweet brass knuckles have caused a serious concussion.
I'm not doing round 9.
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
Sasuke. And I hate every minute of it and swear to never read manga again.

THX

[En Yang Ji]

Itachi would lose against Hachibi easily for the fact that 90% of his skills are in Genjutsu(He is the best at it)and Hachibi is immune to Genjutsu, besides, lets face it, what other jutsu does Itachi know/shown besides KB and Katon?


Itachi's genjutsu could still affect Hachibi. For Hachibi to break a genjutsu he has to know he's in one. Itachi could make a genjutsu that's a reaslistic genjutsu and hard to detect. Hachibi wouldn't know he's in a genjutsu, until it's too late.

Sasuke could do the same.

[Delbi]

I guess that's why we have a difference in opinions, because I think Hachibi could beat Itachi as easy as he beat Sasuke, when Itachi and Sasuke fought, Sasuke didn't have MS, which to me, is the only gap in power they shared, Sasuke was stronger when he Fought Hachibi, about as strong as Itachi.

Well, Itachi didn't go all out against Sasuke and he was also sick. Sasuke is an amazing ninja but almost ever ninja pales in comparrison to Itachi's skills. This was the man who was an ANBU Captain at the age of 15 mind you.



The only difference between Itachi and Sasuke is that Sasuke has a katana,more variety of Ninjutsu and another Element(although relatively useless against Killer Bee because he has the same element), while Itachi has Susanoo.

As we have seen, Sussano is nearly impossible to deal with, its much more dangerous than anything Killerbee has to offer.



Itachi would lose against Hachibi easily for the fact that 90% of his skills are in Genjutsu(He is the best at it)and Hachibi is immune to Genjutsu, besides, lets face it, what other jutsu does Itachi know/shown besides KB and Katon?

Well, what other jutsu has Killerbee shown besides sword techniques and his big blast in his final form? He's really a one trick pony, he's nothing but a brute. If he had anything else to offer I'm pretty sure he would of used it. He planned on killing them all, what did he have to hide.

Would Itachi have trouble fighting him? Probably, then again we don't know the extent of Itachi's powers, and his control over MS is far greater that Sasuke's. He could Amertasu Killerbee to death and there would be nothing he could do about it.



Actually, if he was in his base form, it would be much more difficult for sasuke to connect with the Amaterasu, since it's a much Smaller and Faster target he's dealing with, also, were assuming that he doesn't have any other jutsu he can use to Avoid/escape Amaterasu, because I doubt we have seen the full extent of Killer Bee's abilities.

Ameratsu appears instantly where ever the user is looking, this has been discussed to death before so I'm not going to go too much into it. In any event, Sasuke merely has to look at Killerbee and he can make the flames appear anywhere he wants. It's impossible to dodge.




That would throw a wrench in Sasukes arsenal/fighting style, most of Sasuke's attacks are short-to-Mid range, with the exception of Amaterasu, though at greater distances it will sacrifice much of it's accuracy.

Sasuke didn't make any bad moves against Hachibi, it seems like that in retrospect because Bee swatted down everything Sasuke threw at him but, at the time he did his best. Obviously, he now knows what not to do, but it still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't know what to do.
Remember:
Lightning won't work,Hachibi has Lightning element
Genjutsu won't work, Synced Bijuu
sword won't work, Bee is better
Tai won't work, Bee was unfazed
Sharingan didn't help much
Bee Knows of Amaterasu


Sasuke knows not to get close, and he knows not to use genjutsu or raiton techniques. Saying this, he now doesn't waste the large majority of his chakra and health by getting close and using the jutsu's he used before.

As someone else already stated, if you don't know you are in a genjutsu, your not going to try and break it. Killerbee lacks a Sharigan, so he would be unable to tell reality from illusion if the illusion were extremely real, and as we have seen wtih Sharigan users, they can make very real illusions.

Just because Killerbee knows about Ameratsu, doesn't mean he can stop it in any way. When flames "as hot as the sun" appear on him, what the hell is he going to do?

As for Sasuke mid ranged attacks, all he needs to do is keep Killerbee far enough from him tha the can't hit him. Killerbee is a close range fighter, he can't hurt you unless he's right on top of you.



How will Sasuke win?
Ameratsu, thus buring him to death.




I don't think Sasuke is allowed prep time in a Gauntlet match.

Sasuke is a genius. As we saw from his fight with Deiadra, he's able to improvise and plan on the spot. Even if he wasn't allowed prep time he could formulate a plan quickly and impliment it fast. He is an Uchiha after all.

[ninjabot]

@Delbi45: Banshou Tenin was Pein's jutsu, not Naruto's. It said Banshou Tenin in that panel because God Realm used it to pull a boulder from above them inorder to drop it on Naruto's head.

Remember when he used it to pull Naruto toward him when he stabbed Fukusaku? That was the first time it was called Banshou Tenin I believe.

As for the reason Sasuke stands more than a fair chance against Hachibi, each attack he hit Hachibi with prior to Amaterasu were meant to immobilize (not kill) him. Had he swiped at his throat with that sword rather than kick him in the throat, things would have went differently.

Then there's the Genjutsu that he knows not to use. No, as a matter of fact, he just MIGHT use it, because he has experience that tells him Hachibi WILL be immobilized by the Genjutsu until his Bijuu awakens him, giving him ample time to attack his vitals (decap-attack) before he stands back up.

Remember, he's not immune to Genjutsu or else he wouldn't have been paralyzed to begin with. He just has a way to escape it.

Then there's the easily traceable (even WITH his shroud) direct chakra shroud movements that can be lit aflame quickly with a well timed Amaterasu.

No, Hachibi doesn't have the luxury of having his opponent hold back this time. As for prep time, this IS a rematch...

[Spike Spiegal]

Well, Itachi didn't go all out against Sasuke and he was also sick. Sasuke is an amazing ninja but almost ever ninja pales in comparrison to Itachi's skills. This was the man who was an ANBU Captain at the age of 15 mind you.

Itachi went "all out" he used all his chakra, and his best abilities against Sasuke. We only know of a couple of instances where zetsu said Itachi could have dodged an attack, we don't know if it was because of sickness, we don't even know if his sickness effected him in the battle, we don't know that Itachi let Sasuke connect with the attack, though,it seems more likely it was due to his decrease in eyesight. Even the words of Madara seem to contradict others view of certain situations.


As we have seen, Sussano is nearly impossible to deal with, its much more dangerous than anything Killerbee has to offer.

Are you kidding? Susanoo doesn't even have to be dealt with, and can be avoided, we've only seen it once, lets not go over board, I'm pretty sure a fully transformed 8 tails is alot more impressive than 1 minute Susanoo(no offense to Susanoo).




Well, what other jutsu has Killerbee shown besides sword techniques and his big blast in his final form? He's really a one trick pony, he's nothing but a brute. If he had anything else to offer I'm pretty sure he would of used it. He planned on killing them all, what did he have to hide.

Taka looked for him, he never stated or acted like he wanted to kill them because if he wanted to, he would have.
whether he has more jutsu or not, in this battle he didn't need anything more than what he used, he completly dominated the fight, no jutsu were necessary,one trick pony, come on, sword techs, tailed mode and tranformation(and any abilties in the said state) is more than most ninja have.



Would Itachi have trouble fighting him? Probably, then again we don't know the extent of Itachi's powers, and his control over MS is far greater that Sasuke's. He could Amertasu Killerbee to death and there would be nothing he could do about it.

we have seen the extent of Itachi's powers, he not going to gain jutsu because he's at 100%.

Where's the proof. From the very limited amount of times we've seen them use the MS, they haven't shown a big difference in control,It can be stated that Sasuke put out the flames of Amaterasu, which Itachi has never been shown doing.



Ameratsu appears instantly where ever the user is looking, this has been discussed to death before so I'm not going to go too much into it. In any event, Sasuke merely has to look at Killerbee and he can make the flames appear anywhere he wants. It's impossible to dodge.

Yeah, that's if he's not using his replacement-type jutsu like the first time or a barrier jutsu or if the opponent has anything inbetween the user's eyesight(such as terrain, jutsu etc.),he understands the nature of the attack now.

also,Sasuke/Itachi have shown that they're eyesight decreases immediately after using an MS jutsu, so it's not as easy as your claiming it to be.





Sasuke knows not to get close, and he knows not to use genjutsu or raiton techniques. Saying this, he now doesn't waste the large majority of his chakra and health by getting close and using the jutsu's he used before.

So,youre saying he just gonna stay away and fire Amaterasu's at Killer bee?
because nothing else is effective(that's basically all his jutsu)?

also, this doesn't directly concern the arguement but, I don't remember there ever beeing an instance throughout the manga that the Amaterasu has been used without the prior use of Tsukiyomi,it may be a requirement?


As someone else already stated, if you don't know you are in a genjutsu, your not going to try and break it. Killerbee lacks a Sharigan, so he would be unable to tell reality from illusion if the illusion were extremely real, and as we have seen wtih Sharigan users, they can make very real illusions.

Um, it doesn't matter if the Host can't tell if it's an illusion or not, the bijuu is doing the "breaking" so to speak, I'm sure you know but, Genjutsu uses chakra of the user to disrupt the senses of the targets, the bijuu can sense it and act accordingly.


Just because Killerbee knows about Ameratsu, doesn't mean he can stop it in any way. When flames "as hot as the sun" appear on him, what the hell is he going to do?

It sure helps. and I think I already answered this question but, manga wise, 2 jutsu(Sasuke's, rather Oro's and Killer Bee's) already have escaped Amaterasu and I'm sure there will be more to come.

"Flames as hot as the Sun"? the manga seems to disagree, Karin Got hit by the flames for a few second and came out with minor injuries. Unless, The Sun in Kishi's manga is a different and much cooler sun?...nah, it's just a overhyped description of the power, but, you know this.


As for Sasuke mid ranged attacks, all he needs to do is keep Killerbee far enough from him tha the can't hit him. Killerbee is a close range fighter, he can't hurt you unless he's right on top of you.

That will be a tough task for Sasuke, and your assuming he stays in Base form and doesn't go tail or higher.


Ameratsu, thus buring him to death.

This is my point exactly, that is the only possible ability that will effectively work or have a shot at beating Killer Bee, while on the other hand anything killer Bee has done, has been shown to be effective against Sasuke, he's at an extreme disadvantage.





Sasuke is a genius. As we saw from his fight with Deiadra, he's able to improvise and plan on the spot. Even if he wasn't allowed prep time he could formulate a plan quickly and impliment it fast. He is an Uchiha after all.

Killer Bee, can just as easily formulate a plan thus negating any advantage for Sasuke, If Base Bee feels like he might have trouble with Amaterasu he can begin the battle by transforming. It goes both ways.

[En Yang Ji]

Itachi went "all out" he used all his chakra, and his best abilities against Sasuke. We only know of a couple of instances where zetsu said Itachi could have dodged an attack, we don't know if it was because of sickness, we don't even know if his sickness effected him in the battle, we don't know that Itachi let Sasuke connect with the attack, though,it seems more likely it was due to his decrease in eyesight. Even the words of Madara seem to contradict others view of certain situations.

Itachi probably didn't go all out. I mean, he could have easily killed Sasuke with Amaterasu or Susanoo. There's also the possibility that Itachi could have beaten Sasuke without MS. Itachi could have other strong jutsu (something as strong as Kirin) and opted not to use them because they were unnecessary. Itachi wanted Sasuke to win.



Um, it doesn't matter if the Host can't tell if it's an illusion or not, the bijuu is doing the "breaking" so to speak, I'm sure you know but, Genjutsu uses chakra of the user to disrupt the senses of the targets, the bijuu can sense it and act accordingly.

Why do you think the bijuu would be able to sense it?

[ninjabot]

Yeah, that's if he's not using his replacement-type jutsu like the first time or a barrier jutsu or if the opponent has anything inbetween the user's eyesight(such as terrain, jutsu etc.),he understands the nature of the attack now.

also,Sasuke/Itachi have shown that they're eyesight decreases immediately after using an MS jutsu, so it's not as easy as your claiming it to be.

When has Hachibi shown the ability to use a barrier jutsu? Likewise, the loss of sight from using the MS isn't instantaneous. Sasuke didn't start losing his eyesight until a day (days?) later when they were recouperating from the fight.


So,youre saying he just gonna stay away and fire Amaterasu's at Killer bee?
because nothing else is effective(that's basically all his jutsu)?

Look at it this way: Sasuke managed to cut through one of the bijuu's tails with Chidori Eisou (before Hachibi jumped into the water and hid in it). Yet, he didn't pierce through Hachibi when he struck him with Chidori. Why is that, when the databook states that Chidori Eisou is less powerful than normal Chidori? It's because Sasuke didn't use a full-powered Chidori against Hachibi because they didn't want to kill him. That's why Suigetsu used his water body to amplify the current, inorder to stun Hachibi.

All we're saying is the attacks that were toned down during their first encounter won't be this time. The Chidori WILL pierce through Hachibi. The Amaterasu WON'T stop burning.

[Shaunlim]

^^ And the only reason why Sasuke even got to use that chidori against Hachibi was because his teammates were there in the first place. People seems to forget that Hachibi took on all 3 of them without all 7 of his blades as well. And even then, he wasn't serious.

As for Amateratsu not stopping, again, how is this a factor when Hachibi escaped Amateratsu in the first place.

[ninjabot]

^^ And the only reason why Sasuke even got to use that chidori against Hachibi was because his teammates were there in the first place. People seems to forget that Hachibi took on all 3 of them without all 7 of his blades as well. And even then, he wasn't serious.

The only thing Suigetsu did inorder for Sasuke to land with the Chidori... is get hit. By a linear, direct attack. Sasuke deflected Number 8 which was a linear, direct attack powered by his chakra shroud (with several tails no less!)and even though he was thrown by Juugo, that actually made the feat harder since he was in mid air, flying toward his enemy non-stop. There's no way, NO WAY that Hachibi is gonna walk away from a Chidori to the heart if he tries that super-speed direct attack again (which, BTW, he used constantly and most likely will use constantly again.)

Hachibi raps. Runs straight for Sasuke. Sasuke predicts the trajectory with the Sharingan. He hits with the Chidori. Or he paralyzes him with Genjutsu, THEN hits him with Chidori. Or he hits him with Amaterasu, THEN hits him with Chidori while he's screaming in pain.

As for not being serious, Hachibi admitted himself to his Bijuu that he "got carried away". Once he realized the level of the ninja he was dealing with, he felt like he should "kick it up a notch". Which is exactly why he went 8-tails and goofed. Instead of trying to think up an efficient strategy, he tried to beast them, which was a mistake.

Now, for Amaterasu. Once Hachibi is inevitably immolated with Amaterasu trying his super-cool speed demon strategy that everyone seems to be impressed by (run at the enemy really, really fast? Seriously?) the only chance he has of escaping is via kawarimi. And that's if he hasn't been paralyzed with Genjutsu already.

But this fight takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena. There's absolutely nowhere for him to go. He could go underground like Sasuke did to escape Amaterasu... but Sasuke was able to do that because he was hit on his wing, somewhere where the pain was bareable. If he was hit full on he would've died. The only reason Hachibi endured Amaterasu long enough to escape with Kawarimi is because of the massive Bijuu form he took. It takes longer to incinerate giant Ushi-oni than it does to incinerate a man.

So, in closing, Hachibi has to do more than run fast and fight funny to win if Sasuke wants him dead.

[Shaunlim]

The only thing Suigetsu did inorder for Sasuke to land with the Chidori... is get hit. By a linear, direct attack. Sasuke deflected Number 8 which was a linear, direct attack powered by his chakra shroud (with several tails no less!)and even though he was thrown by Juugo, that actually made the feat harder since he was in mid air, flying toward his enemy non-stop. There's no way, NO WAY that Hachibi is gonna walk away from a Chidori to the heart if he tries that super-speed direct attack again (which, BTW, he used constantly and most likely will use constantly again.)

Hachibi raps. Runs straight for Sasuke. Sasuke predicts the trajectory with the Sharingan. He hits with the Chidori. Or he paralyzes him with Genjutsu, THEN hits him with Chidori. Or he hits him with Amaterasu, THEN hits him with Chidori while he's screaming in pain.

As for not being serious, Hachibi admitted himself to his Bijuu that he "got carried away". Once he realized the level of the ninja he was dealing with, he felt like he should "kick it up a notch". Which is exactly why he went 8-tails and goofed. Instead of trying to think up an efficient strategy, he tried to beast them, which was a mistake.

Now, for Amaterasu. Once Hachibi is inevitably immolated with Amaterasu trying his super-cool speed demon strategy that everyone seems to be impressed by (run at the enemy really, really fast? Seriously?) the only chance he has of escaping is via kawarimi. And that's if he hasn't been paralyzed with Genjutsu already.

But this fight takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena. There's absolutely nowhere for him to go. He could go underground like Sasuke did to escape Amaterasu... but Sasuke was able to do that because he was hit on his wing, somewhere where the pain was bareable. If he was hit full on he would've died. The only reason Hachibi endured Amaterasu long enough to escape with Kawarimi is because of the massive Bijuu form he took. It takes longer to incinerate giant Ushi-oni than it does to incinerate a man.

So, in closing, Hachibi has to do more than run fast and fight funny to win if Sasuke wants him dead.

1. Actually, Juugo and Sasuke and Suigetsu was attacking together to distract Killerbee when Suigetsu took this as an advantage and held Killerbee long enough for the Chidori. Which is impossible for Sasuke to have here unless he can stun Bee long enough with a genjutsu and Bee have shown to get out of it fast enough.

2. That's where the chakra shroud comes into play. It does have some defensive capabilities and worst come to worst, all Bee have to do is avoid a lethal shot and heal later on. Naruto with no tail healed a hole in his lung and while the healing ability might differ, I'm pretty sure Bee's isn't that bad.

3. Well, that's assuming that Sasuke can do so much. As we have seen, his MS genjutsu(Tsukiyomi or not) didn't exactly have that much of an effect. So a regular one isn't going to do much to stun Bee. And as we have seen, Sasuke isn't capable of spamming MS jutsu without having a short break in between them.

4. And also understand that it is easier to hit a giant than a man especially with something that requires you to only look at. And Killerbee have shown impressive speed feats without any tails(ST or not doesn't really matter) which allows him to prevent Sasuke to get a lock-on him.
Killerbee does know about Amateratsu now.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

The only chance Sasuke have against Killerbee if he were to fight him again is Amaterasu, and even that doesn't give him much of a chance. The first time Killerbee ever saw Amaterasu he was able to escape it, so i don't know why anyone will think he will be defeat by it now that he knows about it. Also that's if Sasuke get a chance to use Amaterasu. Unless he use it right away, towards the begin of the fight, i don't think he will have a chance to use it. Killerbee will finish him off before he have a chance to use it, if he tries to use it as a last resort.

I'm not really sure what people saw in Sasuke performance, with the help of Taka, when he toke on Killerbee that makes them thinking he have a chance alone against him. What i saw was Killerbee dominating Sasuke and Taka, "killing" Sasuke two times, countering just about everything Sasuke threw at him, including his top jutsus: Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, then fooling Sasuke and Taka at the end and doing all this while rapping and without taking the fight all that serious. Unless Sasuke had gotten some kind of power ups that am not aware of, he will get demolish by Killerbee if he face him alone now.

[ninjabot]

The thing about seeing Amaterasu is that, after seeing it, that in no way, shape, or form, tells you how to avoid or escape it. Unless you've been told how it works beforehand.

Hachibi knows only 2 things about Amaterasu:

1: "That shit hurts, son!"

2: "I can escape it wit dat Kawarimi, yo!"

Now, you say that Hachibi won't be hit because he has seen the jutsu before. But what does that even mean? He doesn't know where the attack will hit. He doesn't know it can be guided toward him as he attempts to escape it. And he doesn't know that it will continue to burn for 7 days and nights.

Look at his movements that he makes with his chakra shroud. Fast, but easily traced with Sasuke's Sharingan. The moment he rushes in for a full on assault is the moment he eats black fire. And while it's easy to hit a giant, it's also easy to hit someone running straight for you with out any deviations in their path. Like, this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/07/ Here Sasuke explains why Hachibi WILL be hit with Amaterasu, whether giant or not.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/08/ And here's the exact instance where Hachibi will be either made holy...er, holey, with a Chidori...or burned to a crisp with Amaterasu. Notice how he's directly in front of him, defenseless and incapable of dodging a one-shot power move? Yeah, that's the end of the fight.

As for the distractions against Hachibi, I don't think you get what I'm explaining. Yes, Juugo and Suigetsu were helping, but they didn't hold Hachibi in place, or injure him, or anything. In the other panels, sure they did there part. But what we're comparing is the Chidori that Sasuke hit Hachibi with and purposely chose not to end him with. That could've been done without Juugo, Karin, or Suigetsu's help. Just look above at the manga scans for proof.

Also, Hachibi was hit with a Chidori from his blindside. Having Suigetsu and Juugo there is the exact same thing as tricking him into attacking a Genjutsu of himself: a distraction that leaves him wide open. And again, Hachibi is not immune to Genjutsu. He has the means to escape it, but no means to avoid being caught in it in the first place. And ofcourse, a paralyzing Genjutsu is different than a visual Genjutsu. He stopped Hachibi from moving with that one. If he did something that's less easily noticeable, like making him attack a fake Sasuke, how will he or his Bijuu know?

The easy answer is "they won't."

But yeah, I'm not saying it'd be an easy win. It's just, taking what Hachibi did to Sasuke and Taka as proof of his superiority would be like me saying "Sasuke totally pwns Orochimaru because he defeated him, an enemy that didn't want to kill him." The only difference is that Sasuke wasn't sick and bedridden (though he was still injured form his fight against Itachi, as stated by Juugo).

But yeah, that's my take on the whole Hachibi situation. I'll have to see him perform some long range jutsu or show some more complex strategizing skills before flat out giving him the win.

[Shaunlim]

The thing about seeing Amaterasu is that, after seeing it, that in no way, shape, or form, tells you how to avoid or escape it. Unless you've been told how it works beforehand.

Hachibi knows only 2 things about Amaterasu:

1: "That shit hurts, son!"

2: "I can escape it wit dat Kawarimi, yo!"

Now, you say that Hachibi won't be hit because he has seen the jutsu before. But what does that even mean? He doesn't know where the attack will hit. He doesn't know it can be guided toward him as he attempts to escape it. And he doesn't know that it will continue to burn for 7 days and nights.

Look at his movements that he makes with his chakra shroud. Fast, but easily traced with Sasuke's Sharingan. The moment he rushes in for a full on assault is the moment he eats black fire. And while it's easy to hit a giant, it's also easy to hit someone running straight for you with out any deviations in their path. Like, this:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/07/ Here Sasuke explains why Hachibi WILL be hit with Amaterasu, whether giant or not.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/08/ And here's the exact instance where Hachibi will be either made holy...er, holey, with a Chidori...or burned to a crisp with Amaterasu. Notice how he's directly in front of him, defenseless and incapable of dodging a one-shot power move? Yeah, that's the end of the fight.

As for the distractions against Hachibi, I don't think you get what I'm explaining. Yes, Juugo and Suigetsu were helping, but they didn't hold Hachibi in place, or injure him, or anything. In the other panels, sure they did there part. But what we're comparing is the Chidori that Sasuke hit Hachibi with and purposely chose not to end him with. That could've been done without Juugo, Karin, or Suigetsu's help. Just look above at the manga scans for proof.

Also, Hachibi was hit with a Chidori from his blindside. Having Suigetsu and Juugo there is the exact same thing as tricking him into attacking a Genjutsu of himself: a distraction that leaves him wide open. And again, Hachibi is not immune to Genjutsu. He has the means to escape it, but no means to avoid being caught in it in the first place. And ofcourse, a paralyzing Genjutsu is different than a visual Genjutsu. He stopped Hachibi from moving with that one. If he did something that's less easily noticeable, like making him attack a fake Sasuke, how will he or his Bijuu know?

The easy answer is "they won't."

But yeah, I'm not saying it'd be an easy win. It's just, taking what Hachibi did to Sasuke and Taka as proof of his superiority would be like me saying "Sasuke totally pwns Orochimaru because he defeated him, an enemy that didn't want to kill him." The only difference is that Sasuke wasn't sick and bedridden (though he was still injured form his fight against Itachi, as stated by Juugo).

But yeah, that's my take on the whole Hachibi situation. I'll have to see him perform some long range jutsu or show some more complex strategizing skills before flat out giving him the win.

1. Actually he would also somewhat know that Amateratsu is a type of doujutsu as Sasuke just looks on him and he is on fire. And he doesn't have to know it burns for 7 days and night, since he knows that it is dangerous enough to get caught by it. He did try to put it out by going into the water and all.

2. But that's assuming that the scenario will be the same as that time. Being in the arena, there wouldn't be any river/lake for Killerbee to jump across which enables him to move faster than that. And the point that, Killerbee would prevent moving in such a fashion as much as possible to avoid Amateratsu.

3. Well, those are two different situation and whether Sasuke is capable of charging up chidori fast enough is one matter. Besides, there is still the healing ability and defensive capability of the chakra shroud to take account into. Unless the chidori hits the head or heart, Killerbee won't die from it that easily.

4. Genjutsu part. With prior knowledge, Hachibi would also know to look out for Sasuke's genjutsu now. While I'm not saying he would do something what Gai did, he would certainly avoid as much eye contact as possible.
And on the visual genjutsu, there is a high chance of the bijuu knowing since Sasuke's chakra would be invading Killerbee's system.
And as seen with Kyuubi, the bijuu seems capable of knowing. Thus, the chances of it working is reduced especially if they are both working together.

And no, I'm not saying that it is going to be easy for Hachibi either. But chances are, he is likely to win.

[Delbi]

I'm waiting to see Killerbee fight again. My guess is Sasuke is either going to fight him again via Madara's orders, or Kisame and Zetsu will go after him to further develope their characters and fighting styles.

As for Killerbee vs Sasuke, while all the arguments against Sasuke are good, this is Sasuke we are talking about, he's got HAX.

[Spike Spiegal]

Itachi probably didn't go all out. I mean, he could have easily killed Sasuke with Amaterasu or Susanoo. There's also the possibility that Itachi could have beaten Sasuke without MS. Itachi could have other strong jutsu (something as strong as Kirin) and opted not to use them because they were unnecessary. Itachi wanted Sasuke to win.

wow,
Itachi did go all out, he died from chakra exhaustion.

Itachi used an Amaterasu on a fire tech defensively and used it on Sasuke who escaped with Kawarimi, how could he have beaten him with Amaterasu? Itachi can/will only use Susanoo at the very end of the battle as a last ditch effort and besides it's primarily a defensive jutsu to begin with.

Itachi=MS. without it he's a standard Jounin. He won't beat Sasuke without Ms, period.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your an Itachi fanboy? Because most of your thoughts on his character are not supported by the manga in any sense. If Itachi had any other moves on the level of Kirin(or other jutsu in general) he would have done them, he was gonna let Sasuke win anyways, like you said, why would he hold back jutsu? Answer:He didn't.

Yes, Itachi wanted Sasuke to win, and expected to die in this battle, but that doesn't mean he went easy on Sasuke or threw the match, even held back anything, The reason he chose to finally fight Sasukewhen he certainly didn't have to, was that Itachi felt Sasuke was ready,meaning they were on very Similiar levels of power, and chose to give him a power upgrade and to reveal the truth.





Why do you think the bijuu would be able to sense it?

Same way his bijuu sensed(so to speak)Tsukiyomi, and broke it within a second. Just go back and read the Hachibi v. Sasuke fight. and as stated by zetsu in the Itachi fight, there would be no use in using genjutsu anymore if Tsukiyomi can be broken.
Realism doesn't matter, the bijuu can still notice the chakra being forced on its host and react, within seconds.


When has Hachibi shown the ability to use a barrier jutsu? Likewise, the loss of sight from using the MS isn't instantaneous. Sasuke didn't start losing his eyesight until a day (days?) later when they were recouperating from the fight.

At that part of my statement I was including other ways(in general) Amaterasu could be avoided/blocked, in response to the thoughts that it wasn't possible, or something to that effect.

The the decrease in eysight were only shown to be later, but the other signs,like bleeding eyes, pain,etc. were sudden so why would the other effect be gained at a seperate time of the incident which caused it?

Sasuke has only used 2 MS techs and already has trouble grabbing a cup, that sounds fairly immediate to me.



Look at it this way: Sasuke managed to cut through one of the bijuu's tails with Chidori Eisou (before Hachibi jumped into the water and hid in it). Yet, he didn't pierce through Hachibi when he struck him with Chidori. Why is that, when the databook states that Chidori Eisou is less powerful than normal Chidori? It's because Sasuke didn't use a full-powered Chidori against Hachibi because they didn't want to kill him. That's why Suigetsu used his water body to amplify the current, inorder to stun Hachibi.

To very seperate instances, Hachibi was fully transformed, likely(as we've seen with Naruto) to not have access to lightning manipulation. Hachibi was shown to have a great knowledge and use of the lightning element, not to mention been shown(in base form) to take a large amount of damage and come out relatively unscathed, he can(likely) also lessen the force/damage of a chidori with his own Lightning manipulation(ala Sasuke).

Why wouldn't Sasuke just use his own jutsu, developed for this very occasion, to Stun Hachibi if that was really his intentions? why would Sasuke not use "full-power" yet, want to amplify the power of his jutsu? he could of just as easily used "full power" and/or pierced in a non-fatal area. Your logic doesn't hold up. It's more likely, he plain 'ol wanted to increase the power and area of his chidori.


All we're saying is the attacks that were toned down during their first encounter won't be this time. The Chidori WILL pierce through Hachibi. The Amaterasu WON'T stop burning.

All I'm saying is that they weren't, We've never seen a "toned down" jutsu before.Your statement is a very favorably and fruitless assumption on Sasuke's behalf to support your pre-determined thoughts on who the winner is.

It doesn't matter how long amaterasu burns if Bee uses his Kawarimi-type jutsu like he effortlessly did the first time.

Bee was never implied or shown to have taken taka seriously, he used them as a means to escape the village from the very beggining.

[En Yang Ji]

wow,
Itachi did go all out, he died from chakra exhaustion.

Itachi used an Amaterasu on a fire tech defensively and used it on Sasuke who escaped with Kawarimi, how could he have beaten him with Amaterasu? Itachi can/will only use Susanoo at the very end of the battle as a last ditch effort and besides it's primarily a defensive jutsu to begin with.

Itachi=MS. without it he's a standard Jounin. He won't beat Sasuke without Ms, period.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your an Itachi fanboy? Because most of your thoughts on his character are not supported by the manga in any sense. If Itachi had any other moves on the level of Kirin(or other jutsu in general) he would have done them, he was gonna let Sasuke win anyways, like you said, why would he hold back jutsu? Answer:He didn't.

Yes, Itachi wanted Sasuke to win, and expected to die in this battle, but that doesn't mean he went easy on Sasuke or threw the match, even held back anything, The reason he chose to finally fight Sasukewhen he certainly didn't have to, was that Itachi felt Sasuke was ready,meaning they were on very Similiar levels of power, and chose to give him a power upgrade and to reveal the truth.


Itachi did use Amaterasu defensively against the fire justu, but he could have decided to kept it going instead of closing his eyes. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/02/

The same thing happened the second time he used amaterasu, he closed his eyes, before it destroyed Sasuke's body completely.


I disagree about Itachi being a standard Jounin without MS. With one genjutsu he was able to disable Orochimaru. Also Itachi was able fighting evenly with Sasuke, before he used MS, even though he's sick.


About the justu, Itachi didn't need to use any other jutsu. If Itachi does have more A-class justu, he doesn't have to use all of them in a serious battle. The 3rd has over a thousand, but he wouldn't use them all in a battle. Itachi just used the justu that were needed in that situation.


Same way his bijuu sensed(so to speak)Tsukiyomi, and broke it within a second. Just go back and read the Hachibi v. Sasuke fight. and as stated by zetsu in the Itachi fight, there would be no use in using genjutsu anymore if Tsukiyomi can be broken.
Realism doesn't matter, the bijuu can still notice the chakra being forced on its host and react, within seconds.


How do you know it was the bijuu who sensed and broke it, though? Killerbee could tell he was in a genjutsu, as soon as he was put in it. Killerbee said this "My partner is the beast inside me, illusions won't work on a host that control their beast" It seems like from what he said Killerbee is the one who is breaking the genjutsu using the bijuu's power.

[kai-uchiha]

off topic: i'm sorry, but you people seem to have forgotten that itachi does have a second element: water.
remember the fight against kakashi pre time skip??

[Franckie]

off topic: i'm sorry, but you people seem to have forgotten that itachi does have a second element: water.
remember the fight against kakashi pre time skip??

There's no water source for Itachi to use in the Chuunin Exams arena.

[Delbi]

off topic: i'm sorry, but you people seem to have forgotten that itachi does have a second element: water.
remember the fight against kakashi pre time skip??

Itachi can't use water without a water source however since it's not his affinity. In Itachi's case, water jutsu wouldn't help him much, his bread and butter is his genjutsu, MS, Speed, and Katons in that order.

[ninjabot]

Why wouldn't Sasuke just use his own jutsu, developed for this very occasion, to Stun Hachibi if that was really his intentions? why would Sasuke not use "full-power" yet, want to amplify the power of his jutsu? he could of just as easily used "full power" and/or pierced in a non-fatal area. Your logic doesn't hold up. It's more likely, he plain 'ol wanted to increase the power and area of his chidori.

Most likely he didn't want to fry Juugo aswell, as Nagashi would have done just that. Or, he knew that Nagashi would've been shrugged off due to it not being as powerful as a normal Chidori.

Chidori isn't just a mass of lightning forced out of the hand. It's then forged into a dense blade with shape manipulation. What Sasuke did was most likely the first step of Chidori, minus the fatal blade part. The water merely let him send the charge throughout all of Hachibi's body.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/014/

Notice that his entire body is surging with Raiton two whole panels after Sasuke has already moved away? When have you ever seen a normal full-power Chidori do that?


All I'm saying is that they weren't, We've never seen a "toned down" jutsu before.Your statement is a very favorably and fruitless assumption on Sasuke's behalf to support your pre-determined thoughts on who the winner is.

Actually we have. On multiple occasions at that. We've seen incomplete jutsu; jutsu that are capable of doing more damage but don't due to it's user intentionally holding back, and jutsu that aren't as effective as usual due to it's wielder being in a weakened state.

When Jiraiya first used the Rasengan, do you think that version was as powerful as the one Naruto used to hit Kabuto? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/150/13/ It's not even as dense as a normal Rasengan, it looks like it's fading away. The one used against Kabuto was meant to END him and looked like a full-on condensed sphere. The one used against the nobody that Jiraiya hit was just to knock him out and looked less dense.

Toned down Rasengan.

As for my "fruitless assumptions", are you saying that Taka didn't begin the fight holding back against Hachibi? If so, disregard anything I post below this sentence, as it's wasted effort on my behalf.


Bee was never implied or shown to have taken taka seriously, he used them as a means to escape the village from the very beggining.

What? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/016/

"Playtime's over. Time to go home and have some whiskey again, yeah?"

Call me a cynic...but it seems to me that Hachibi BLATANTLY STATES that he's done holding back. And if that isn't enough proof: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/17/

He had the upperhand, but used "all of his strength" because he got "carried away" fighting "one of the strongest foes he's ever faced". Hachibi toyed with Taka until he slipped up. Then, he got serious. THEN, he got burned.

Then there's the whole "using Taka to escape Kumogakure" statement you made. He didn't make the plan prior to his defeat, he made it BECAUSE of his defeat. On the spur of the moment.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/14/ Proof that he didn't throw the fight until he realized he couldn't win.

"Not a bad plan for something I thought up on the spur of the moment."

Hachibi used the confusion of being thought dead to escape Kumogakure, which he didn't even have the idea of doing until he realized he could use Sasuke's kidnapping attempt as deversion while he goes on an amazing adventure.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/16/

So, sense Hachibi used his own canon words to disprove you, I'd say my reasoning isn't quite as fruitless as you assumed.

[Spike Spiegal]

Most likely he didn't want to fry Juugo aswell, as Nagashi would have done just that. Or, he knew that Nagashi would've been shrugged off due to it not being as powerful as a normal Chidori.

Chidori isn't just a mass of lightning forced out of the hand. It's then forged into a dense blade with shape manipulation. What Sasuke did was most likely the first step of Chidori, minus the fatal blade part. The water merely let him send the charge throughout all of Hachibi's body.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/014/

Notice that his entire body is surging with Raiton two whole panels after Sasuke has already moved away? When have you ever seen a normal full-power Chidori do that?


Assumptions without proof. It was stated as a chidori, not,"chidori with no shape manipulation" because, that would make it a different jutsu.

Hachibi was soaked in water prior to the execution of the chidori, which caused said jutsu to increase/spread it's surface area, and was also the reason the lightning lasting excess panels,but, is irrelevant and most likely lasted a couple of seconds max.



Actually we have. On multiple occasions at that. We've seen incomplete jutsu; jutsu that are capable of doing more damage but don't due to it's user intentionally holding back, and jutsu that aren't as effective as usual due to it's wielder being in a weakened state.
When Jiraiya first used the Rasengan, do you think that version was as powerful as the one Naruto used to hit Kabuto? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/150/13/ It's not even as dense as a normal Rasengan, it looks like it's fading away. The one used against Kabuto was meant to END him and looked like a full-on condensed sphere. The one used against the nobody that Jiraiya hit was just to knock him out and looked less dense.

Toned down Rasengan.


Your dancing around my statement. Having an incomplete/unmastered jutsu isn't the act of willingly "toning down" a jutsu and isn't in the slightest related to your assumptions that, Sasuke toned down the jutsu, willingly/intentionally, which I've never seen, or has never been stated, as far as I remember, if you can provide links in any such instances, I'd be more than happy to admit I am wrong.

EDIT: Adressing the Jiraiya issue, your looking to much into it. Naruto's Rasengan was meant to look Epic, also Naruto was holding Kabuto down and followed through, unlike Jiraiya, who just let the guy go flying. As for the difference in appearance, If I had the time/patience I could probably show you a number of different looking rasengans.


As for my "fruitless assumptions", are you saying that Taka didn't begin the fight holding back against Hachibi? If so, disregard anything I post below this sentence, as it's wasted effort on my behalf.


the "fruitless assumption" comment was only meant to have correlation to the statement of "toned down jutsu" but, what the heck.

No, I've stated in prior posts that Taka did go easy at the beginning, but only in the begining, some people(in general) seem to think they went easy the whole fight or half the fight etc.

Despite Taka getting manhandled prior, yes ,being somewhat of a show off, Sasuke took his opponent lightly to a degree but, not fully, after Hachibi beat him the first time, It's hard to believe he took him lightly again(and again and again...).




What? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/016/

"Playtime's over. Time to go home and have some whiskey again, yeah?"

Call me a cynic...but it seems to me that Hachibi BLATANTLY STATES that he's done holding back. And if that isn't enough proof: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/17/


He doesn't blatantly state anything your pushing.
Are you only taking what you want out of the statements?

just before he says "playtimes over..." He states:
"For a bunch of weaklings, they sure are a pain"

when you read it together, it sounds more like: he's done "playing" with them because they're weak, and is going to go do something of more importance(drink).




He had the upperhand, but used "all of his strength" because he got "carried away" fighting "one of the strongest foes he's ever faced". Hachibi toyed with Taka until he slipped up. Then, he got serious. THEN, he got burned.


Again, your only taking fragments of the full statements because it's the only portion of the truth that supports you.
before he stated the sentence above his bijuu said:
Besides, summoning me nearly took all your strength didn't it?
And, why did you summon me when you had the upperhand anyway?

Meaning, he wasted the majority of his strength summoning his bijuu, which was stated to have been unnecessary, because he already had the obvious "upperhand" over Sasuke.

He got "carried away" while he was having fun because Sasuke was "One of the strongest foes he's ever faced" which , in turn, led to the statement above.




Then there's the whole "using Taka to escape Kumogakure" statement you made. He didn't make the plan prior to his defeat, he made it BECAUSE of his defeat. On the spur of the moment.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/14/ Proof that he didn't throw the fight until he realized he couldn't win."Not a bad plan for something I thought up on the spur of the moment."

Hachibi used the confusion of being thought dead to escape Kumogakure, which he didn't even have the idea of doing until he realized he could use Sasuke's kidnapping attempt as deversion while he goes on an amazing adventure.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/16/


How does any of this disprove my statement? He was only "Defeated" in a sense, If he wanted to kill Sasuke and Company after Amaterasu he could have done so, Sasuke was exhausted,Suigetsu was a puddle, Juugo was a kid, and Karin was out cold. He lets them escape, with what they thought was him to make it look like a real kidnapping, it shows some preperation though, because he had to atleast know there were eyes on him able to report the incident because the plan wouldn't have worked otherwise.


So, sense Hachibi used his own canon words to disprove you, I'd say my reasoning isn't quite as fruitless as you assumed.
Nothing you presented disproved my statements, though I do think most of what you said are assumptions geared towards Sasuke winning, If I offended you, I apologize, it wasn't my intentions.

[Lazarus812]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi

Round01: Haven't really thought of this but I say Tsuande, just because she is tatical in my opinion (chakra on her feet to counter pain), and she has her summon that can help her deal with sasuke and heal her if she needs it plus she's a medical ninja she has extensive knowledge of the human body she can fight, idk why you guys say she can fight...She is a sannin and she fought against that dude in the rain village she puts in work she aint gonna get owned by no sasuke, She might lose but it's just to close to call bc I could see Sasuke putting in work against this bbb(big breasted b!%(h)

Round02: Jiraiya, look J-man has teh barriers, sage mode, the frogs, and the genj.-song, that's already enough to counter against the Sharingan and he surely will know a lot about Sasuke coming into this firgh, and overall J-man has the most experience there's no way he could lose to Sasuke.

Round03: I want to say Kisame, but I don't know enough about his skill, it seems like Sasuke could win if he avoids close combat, but Kisame got a chakra draining sword, large chakra capacity, and can make a small lake of water and use his Shark Justsu and clones to fight Sasuke, idk I'm going to go with Kisame, but Sasuke got tskyomi, ameratsu, speed, and the boy can fight...idk sorry thats a tie.

Round04: Sasuke, Sasuke was faster, than gaara and penetrated his sand shield(no homo) and this was when Gaara HAD the demon in him(no homo), now that Gaara is just Gaara I don't see how his defense is going to hold up to a stronger faster Sasuke.

Round05: This is Much like the Gaara fight, Kimi got good Tai, and defense but that's nothing to the sharigan which can see everything, good fight between those to; but I see Sasuke winning, I mean he took on Dei, Oro, and Itachi; he's too much of a emo-pretty boy, but he is a strong fighter and a genius in his own right he was chosen as Kimi replacement and he was much younger than Kimi, and had trained under Kakashi, and Oro and has long range arsenal as well as a kekkei thats IMHO better than Kimis.

Round06: This is acually the most suprising, I've seen people say and actually state reasons why Sasuke would win, and I gotta say....HOW? given the fact that this time around Sasuke would win because he knows what he's up against? that's crazy talk. Knowing about the enemies abilities does help you, but in the end if you don't have the power, or the "attributes" to implement a great offense, you can't win. Sasuke is a genius but even he will realize that he can't win, killerbee has the strength, chakra, and raw power to own Sasuke, plus his band of misfits...2nd time around Sasuke would make the fight last a little longer but Killerbee should still win, Simply but he's got him in close range, can block tsukiyomi(or any genjutsu) can combine with his demon, plus LOL he's black and his rhyming skills are flat out crazy YO!!

Hachibi (rapping): "now who say's sasuke F*$!ing with me?/
they just said the F*$!ing with me/ they didnt mean it."

Round07: this match would be crazy, Sasori is a Bad MOFO, would genjutsu work on a puppet master whhose a puppet? and I'm thinking Sasori has some basic knowledge about the Sharingan, and he has all them Puppets. Sasuke got a pretty good arsenal but thinking about it he is figthing a Puppet master that's like 100 vs. 1 and he does have amaretsu. but he needs time to prepare that right? and what happens when they're attacking from all the place not to mention those eye technique strains the user he's tsuky. has to get the job done first time around or he's going to be in trouble. I will say if Sasori drags the fight he's chances of winning would dwindle because eventually with Sasuke he'll learn the pattern of Sasori's attacks and he'll figure out how to defeat him. I say Sasori if he doesn't play around...if he underestimates Sasuke (he probably will) then not even the kazekage would help him win.

Round08: Sasuke would Slice Asuma up, and step on Kurenai's stomach J/K, ..well no not really, i mean they are both jonins but Asuma seems to be weak against genjutsu he could get trap in Tsuky. and Sasuke could fight kurenai, and kill her while asuma is trapped in tsuky.

Round09: I'm a little weary of this battle only because I still feel that while Sauke wanted to kill Itachi, Itachi did not want to kill Sasuke. I've read where someone said that itachi wasn't holding back and while that maybe true I don't think he fought to kill and because of that was not fighting at 100%, plus he was sick or whatever the case may be. If itachi were to fight to kill, like he Should've done, then he will surely beat Sasuke, i mean itachi was still in his prime, he was so quick to where his handseals were not even visible, he has array of jutsus, and he has more fighting experience than sasuke (3rd ninja war, oro, deidra, Countless Uchihas, probably Madara at one point, Kakashi, Asuma, and others that we don't know about during his time as a missing-nin) and he was in ANBU. I don't think it would be an entirely easy victory but itachi is a Monster, Sasuke stands almost no chance of winning even if he knows about Susano.

Round10: The Professor, the 3rd hokage is a ass-kicking machine. he has Genma who can help him get out of any genjutsu, he has a large array of jutsu's, and some of you say Sasuke has Jutsus too, which he does, but this is the Man who was said to know all the Jutsus of the leaf village...thats crazy when you think about it, I would honestly want to see this fight the most. I think that Sarutobi would win, more experience, more tatical, more jutsus, Genma...that's not to say sasuke wouldn't put in work but he'll get schooled, and besides if all else fails he has the death god.

sorry about the size just thought i go in real quick since i work 16hrs a day and can't really post to everything i want.:D

[ninjabot]

Hachibi was soaked in water prior to the execution of the chidori, which caused said jutsu to increase/spread it's surface area, and was also the reason the lightning lasting excess panels,but, is irrelevant and most likely lasted a couple of seconds max.

Did I not say that Suigetsu's water was intended to increase the Chidori's stun effect rather than it's lethality? Yes. You were supposed to prove to me that the Chidori wasn't toned down, that he simply indured a full powered Chidori, which you didn't do.


Your dancing around my statement. Having an incomplete/unmastered jutsu isn't the act of willingly "toning down" a jutsu and isn't in the slightest related to your assumptions that, Sasuke toned down the jutsu, willingly/intentionally, which I've never seen, or has never been stated, as far as I remember, if you can provide links in any such instances, I'd be more than happy to admit I am wrong.

Both jutsu were Rasengan. One was backed by killing intent. The other meant to immobilize the opponent. One was stronger. They were both the same ninjutsu. My point has been proven to anyone that can accept these basic concepts. Your statement was that we've never seen the same jutsu used in a toned down variation. I proved that we have. Dancing around what? And I've posted plenty of links, none of which you seem to be satisfied with.

Likewise, I know of many different Rasengan. The point I'm pushing is that all those other Rasengan are full-on Rasengan meant to kill the opponent whereas the one Jiraiya used at that moment wasn't, which proves my statement to be true (that toned down versions of jutsu are possible and have been canonically shown.) Are you saying that Kabuto has the same durability as that guy that Jiraiya hit? You'd think a ninja of Kabuto's level could take more damage than a normal thug. And a ninja would be harder to knock out, thus more power would be needed to finish them off.

Assumption or not, imy stance isn't the slightest bit baseless, idiotic, or fan-biased. At all.


Again, your only taking fragments of the full statements because it's the only portion of the truth that supports you.

That's terribly short-sighted of you. I'm showing you the parts of the panels that can't be disproven because they are direct quotes from the character. You're doing the same, but somehow getting a completely different message. Hachibi made no contradictions to his own words, and there's nothing at all you can show me in those chapters that disprove what quotes I presented to you, since those are the main points of each page. Example?


just before he says "playtimes over..." He states:
"For a bunch of weaklings, they sure are a pain"

when you read it together, it sounds more like: he's done "playing" with them because they're weak, and is going to go do something of more importance(drink).

And how do you defeat an opponent you were initially playing with? By getting serious. Whether that be by actually using strategy instead of acting a fool, or by amplifying your speed and power (which I may be mistaken...but that seems like EXACTLY what he did. Hachibi chakra shroud? Yeah.). I'm just saying that he got serious once he realized the others could actually defeat him if he didn't.


Again, your only taking fragments of the full statements because it's the only portion of the truth that supports you.
before he stated the sentence above his bijuu said:
Besides, summoning me nearly took all your strength didn't it?
And, why did you summon me when you had the upperhand anyway?

Meaning, he wasted the majority of his strength summoning his bijuu, which was stated to have been unnecessary, because he already had the obvious "upperhand" over Sasuke.

He got "carried away" while he was having fun because Sasuke was "One of the strongest foes he's ever faced" which , in turn, led to the statement above.

Another example of the main point being more important then all of that useless context. The point he intended to make was that he could've won but got carried away due to Sasuke's level of strength. Which is all I was stating. You reiterated my statement, so I don't see what the problem there is. He could have one, but became increasingly aware that the gap in skill wasn't as great as previously thought. So he powered up to take him down when he didn't need to...which caused him to pretty much throw the fight unintentionally.


How does any of this disprove my statement? He was only "Defeated" in a sense, If he wanted to kill Sasuke and Company after Amaterasu he could have done so, Sasuke was exhausted,Suigetsu was a puddle, Juugo was a kid, and Karin was out cold.

...and Hachibi used the majority of his strength activating full 8 tails mode. And was severely burned. And had lost a vast majority of his tales, which meant he couldn't power up the way he did before, or atleast not as much as before. He could not have won the fight after that Amaterasu. Hence the reason he opted to hide rather than fight.

Unless you disagree that the fight was over the moment Hachibi chose to hide after Amaterasu. Hachibi had lost multiple tails and couldn't fight any longer. If he could, then he wouldn't have had to hide from them. He could've fought Sasuke (and risked being immolated again). He chose to flee instead. A forfiet is indeed a loss.


Nothing you presented disproved my statements, though I do think most of what you said are assumptions geared towards Sasuke winning, If I offended you, I apologize, it wasn't my intentions.

If Kishimoto can't prove you wrong, no one can. And I'm not offended in the least. More like... exhausted. We'll have to agree to disagree until such time that Hachibi shows the ability to continue fighting after enduring Amaterasu. Because it looked to me that he hid until he could successfully escape.

[Delbi]

The whole match between Killerbee and Sasuke would come down to one thing and one thing only. Ameratsu.

Unless Killerbee is in his final form, he would die if he gets hit with this technique, and since it's impossible to dodge, Killerbee is kind of boned.

Sasuke would have to be a mid-long range fighter throughout the entire fight to win, he would never be able to get near Killerbee unless he surprised him.

Saying that, Killerbee can be caught in a genjutsu without knowing it. If I were Sasuke I'd trap him in a genjutsu that would make it seem like Killerbee was winning, then as soon as he though he won, I'd decapitage him and burn his body to pieces.

[Spike Spiegal]

Did I not say that Suigetsu's water was intended to increase the Chidori's stun effect rather than it's lethality? Yes. You were supposed to prove to me that the Chidori wasn't toned down, that he simply indured a full powered Chidori, which you didn't do.

I didn't say it dercreased lethality, It only amplified power and added an area effect. I am not the one who has to PROVE anything, it's your baseless assumptions were discussing. like I stated previously(which you left out) It was called chidori, therefore it was a chidori, if he wanted to stun him nagashi would have done just that.


Both jutsu were Rasengan. One was backed by killing intent. The other meant to immobilize the opponent. One was stronger. They were both the same ninjutsu. My point has been proven to anyone that can accept these basic concepts. Your statement was that we've never seen the same jutsu used in a toned down variation. I proved that we have. Dancing around what? And I've posted plenty of links, none of which you seem to be satisfied with.

I think you answered your own question(and I adressed this previously, and left out,again)
The power of the jutsu was the same but the delivery was different in intent/follow through, Jiraiya didn't use it to kill so he himself(not the Rasengan) held back, and didn't follow through, Naruto wanted to kill, so he followed through with the attack.


Likewise, I know of many different Rasengan. The point I'm pushing is that all those other Rasengan are full-on Rasengan meant to kill the opponent whereas the one Jiraiya used at that moment wasn't, which proves my statement to be true (that toned down versions of jutsu are possible and have been canonically shown.) Are you saying that Kabuto has the same durability as that guy that Jiraiya hit? You'd think a ninja of Kabuto's level could take more damage than a normal thug. And a ninja would be harder to knock out, thus more power would be needed to finish them off.

It was the reg rasengan, if I remember correctly, that was the first time Naruto or the readers saw rasengan, I doubt it was a toned down rasengan, it's never stated anywhere(DB or manga) so your assumption is without proof. Like I stated above and you stated, Jiraiya had no intent on killing his opponent, so he didn't follow through with the tech, which would have given a different effect.


Assumption or not, imy stance isn't the slightest bit baseless, idiotic, or fan-biased. At all.

That's terribly short-sighted of you. I'm showing you the parts of the panels that can't be disproven because they are direct quotes from the character. You're doing the same, but somehow getting a completely different message. Hachibi made no contradictions to his own words, and there's nothing at all you can show me in those chapters that disprove what quotes I presented to you, since those are the main points of each page. Example?


Then why are you seeing something that isn't there? most of your "proof" is taken out of context, you have even butchered my most recent post, leaving important pieces,(that address the very topics of discussion by the way)or leaving others responses out entirely, if you are going to respond to my post leave all of it in context and address the topics that you feel like but, dont butcher the thing.

How does my actions come of as short-sighted, when I've opted to respond by showing you the context in it's entirety? I've demonstrated, on the same pages, no less, that your statements are only half truths and taken out of it's context, I'm disproving you by showing that, if put into context, the statements are seen differently.


And how do you defeat an opponent you were initially playing with? By getting serious. Whether that be by actually using strategy instead of acting a fool, or by amplifying your speed and power (which I may be mistaken...but that seems like EXACTLY what he did. Hachibi chakra shroud? Yeah.). I'm just saying that he got serious once he realized the others could actually defeat him if he didn't.

Another example of the main point being more important then all of that useless context. The point he intended to make was that he could've won but got carried away due to Sasuke's level of strength. Which is all I was stating. You reiterated my statement, so I don't see what the problem there is. He could have one, but became increasingly aware that the gap in skill wasn't as great as previously thought. So he powered up to take him down when he didn't need to...which caused him to pretty much throw the fight unintentionally.

I didn't retiterate what you were saying I used the "useless context" you left out to prove that Host/Bijuu stated that it was unnecessary to go full transformation, because he already had the upperhand(again you left this part of my arguement out) so, to sum up, he didn't transform because his opponents level of strength and it was a necessity, He did so, because got carried away.

Carried away= caught up in the moment(emotionaly) and went over and above what was necessary or "over did it" if you will.


...and Hachibi used the majority of his strength activating full 8 tails mode. And was severely burned. And had lost a vast majority of his tales, which meant he couldn't power up the way he did before, or atleast not as much as before. He could not have won the fight after that Amaterasu. Hence the reason he opted to hide rather than fight.

Unless you disagree that the fight was over the moment Hachibi chose to hide after Amaterasu. Hachibi had lost multiple tails and couldn't fight any longer. If he could, then he wouldn't have had to hide from them. He could've fought Sasuke (and risked being immolated again). He chose to flee instead. A forfiet is indeed a loss.

A forfeit doesn't mean he can beat Bee either. He hid because he had no intention of fighting/killing them, he also wanted to make sure the observing Cloud nin were'nt there, or like I stated(which again you left out) his plan wouldn't have worked. He tried to hide and leave in the beggining of the match(A link you provided) before the battle truly progressed,so we know he wasn't looking to battle these guys to begin with, Fact is, he could still use the bijuu and he looked better than Taka.

This point also supports the rematch, because, he doesn't have to needlessly fully transform, and waste the majority of his chakra, which was the only reason he was exhausted in the first place which was also proven by text deemed "useless" in your eyes.


If Kishimoto can't prove you wrong, no one can. And I'm not offended in the least. More like... exhausted. We'll have to agree to disagree until such time that Hachibi shows the ability to continue fighting after enduring Amaterasu. Because it looked to me that he hid until he could successfully escape.

That doesnt translate to, Hiding because he couldn't win, he had plans, and didn't feeling like fighting weaklings anymore.

But, I feel like I'm going around in circles with you, if you want to take things out of context, to suit your purposes,then it is your right.


The whole match between Killerbee and Sasuke would come down to one thing and one thing only. Ameratsu.

That's my point, that was the only justu that was even half- successful against Hachibi, while everything Bee did worked against Sasuke, and even that was avoided the first time he'd ever seen the jutsu. In Conclusion, nothing in Sasuke's Current Skill set can't be dealt with, on the other hand Bee has shown that everything is effective against Sasuke.


Unless Killerbee is in his final form, he would die if he gets hit with this technique, and since it's impossible to dodge, Killerbee is kind of boned.

That's an assumption, It's more believable, to assume he can do his Kawarimi-type jutsu in any form, and is not only applicable to full transformation, which was the form he was in the only time the jutsu was used against him


Sasuke would have to be a mid-long range fighter throughout the entire fight to win, he would never be able to get near Killerbee unless he surprised him.

Exactly, that's not in Sasuke's nature and his style/jutsu don't support that type of combat, against all opponents he's came in close range, it's unbeleivable to think he will stay away from close combat through out the entire fight.


Saying that, Killerbee can be caught in a genjutsu without knowing it. If I were Sasuke I'd trap him in a genjutsu that would make it seem like Killerbee was winning, then as soon as he though he won, I'd decapitage him and burn his body to pieces.

Killer Bee was caught in the most powerful genjutsu Sasuke can produce, and it was broken within a second, on that evidence alone, it's baseless to assume Sasuke can use a genjutsu, no matter how realistic it is, and Bee won't be able to escape, using his bijuu as a partner to disrupt his chakra for him.

[Delbi]

That's my point, that was the only justu that was even half- successful against Hachibi, while everything Bee did worked against Sasuke, and even that was avoided the first time he'd ever seen the jutsu. In Conclusion, nothing in Sasuke's Current Skill set can't be dealt with, on the other hand Bee has shown that everything is effective against Sasuke.

Whoa whoa, first off, Sasuke didn't even use his entire skill set against against Killerbee, so saying his entire skill set is ineffective is just plan bias. Secondly, both opponents underestimated one another, if they fought again, both of their gameplans would change.

Let me ask you, Sasuke has the Sharigan and has seen what Killerbee can do, do you honestly think his same tricks would work again? Same things goes for Killerbee reguarding Sasuke but to a lesser extent because he lack of the Sharigan.




That's an assumption, It's more believable, to assume he can do his Kawarimi-type jutsu in any form, and is not only applicable to full transformation, which was the form he was in the only time the jutsu was used against him

No, its not believable to say he could use his Kawarimi in any form, and it wasn't so much a Kawarimi in the traditional sense.

Killerbee transformed, and like all Jinichuriki, his actual body was inside of the transformation. Sasuke hit the transformation, which is basically chakra manifesting itself into a monster like form. Killerbee himself never actually got touched, and therefore he was able to break off from his transformation unharmed and create a clone of himself using a piece of the biju's body.

Ameratsu is undodgeable, in ever instance it's been used with the intent of hitting a target, it has. If Sasuke wished, he could look at Killerbee's face and kill him on the spot with Ameratsu. End of story, there really is no arguing that.

And until we see Killerbee use a Kawarimi justu like Orochimaru's in his base form, its like assuming Sasuke can use normal genjutsu, so don't say he can as a defense against Ameratsu.




Exactly, that's not in Sasuke's nature and his style/jutsu don't support that type of combat, against all opponents he's came in close range, it's unbeleivable to think he will stay away from close combat through out the entire fight.

Sasuke is the most well rounded fighter in the entire manga, he can tailor his style to his opponents strengths and weaknesses, he's done so in every fight he's been in.

He holds a wide variety of jutsu that are mid-long range, in fact the only jutsu and techniques of his that are close range are his sword techniques and his orginal chidori and of course taijutsu. All of his Katon's, half his Raton's, and all of his shurkien jutsu, which are somewhat his speciality, are all long range attacks.

And in every instance where he goes in close to fight someone, its been with the intention of ending the fight and killing the person, he rarley if ever does so from the beginning.



Killer Bee was caught in the most powerful genjutsu Sasuke can produce, and it was broken within a second, on that evidence alone, it's baseless to assume Sasuke can use a genjutsu, no matter how realistic it is, and Bee won't be able to escape, using his bijuu as a partner to disrupt his chakra for him.

Sasuke has used Sharigna Genjutsu before, he did so when he was fighting Itachi and Deiadra. In fact he used the same strategy of dying to trick Deiadra.

Naruto was caught in a genjutsu before and didn't know it, Killerbee hasn't shown himself to be a battle genius or a genjutsu type. If he doesn't know he is in one, he wouldn't try and break it.

Tsyukiyomi's has two weaknesses, 1) It drains the users of a lot of chakra, and 2) It's obvious as fuck. Killerbee knew he was in a genjutsu and so he tried to break out of it. If Sasuke made an illusion of himself dying, Killerbee wouldn't suspect anything most likely.

I'll state this. Is Killerbee superior to Sasuke? In many aspects he is. Does that mean he will win? Fuck no.

What people don't understand is that simply because someone has beaten someone before, does not mean they always will defeat them. Not to mentiion that in this scenerio, Sasuke is allowed to KILL Killerbee. If you forget, his intentions where to CAPTURE him last time. There's also the fact that he's fought him before.

Also, the fight more or less comes down to one jutsu. Ameratsu. And saying that, only a handful of ninja in the manga can deal with that attack without dying for sure, and almost all of them are now dead. Killerbee, isn't one of those ninja, unless he is fully transformed.

If Sasuke didn't have Ameratsu, he would lose. Too bad he does have it, and it would make him win. His only other shot would be to trick Killerbee with genjutsu and kill him that way, otherwise, Killerbee wins the fight nearly every time most likely.

[Spike Spiegal]

Whoa whoa, first off, Sasuke didn't even use his entire skill set against against Killerbee, so saying his entire skill set is ineffective is just plan bias. Secondly, both opponents underestimated one another, if they fought again, both of their gameplans would change.

His skill set is unaltered since the last time they fought, he used what was most effective against his opponent,any other jutsu(couple of Katons, Raitons) wouldn't have helped him anymore than the ones he used.

Yes both did underestimate one another, Sasuke my not use Tsukiyomi(unless it is indeed a prerequisite for Amaterasu) or Genjutsu in general and try to keep his distance.

But, Killer Bee will make an equal amount of adjustments. IF he can only do his Kawarimi-esque justu in Full Transformation than he can begin by transforming at the begining of the battle(that's if he is indeed worried about Ama), He also knows everything important about Amaterasu: It's Instant, It apears when his eyes change, and he can escape it, with at least the tech he used last time, he's been shown to be very Battle smart.

Some important factors in the fight:

Only during the beggining portion of the fight was Taka not trying to kill Bee.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/007/
Every action after was meant to kill.

Bee used the majority of his chakra to go Full Transformation, which was stated by the 8 tails to have been unessasary,because of the obvious upperhand he already had on Sasuke, if he feels that Sasuke will give him fits, he may choose to conserve a large portion of his chakra this time.

Team Taka won't be there. He was either saved or killed at least 5 times(not exaggerating, look it up) in that fight, without Taka his chances of surviving are drastically lower than the previous encounter.


Let me ask you, Sasuke has the Sharigan and has seen what Killerbee can do, do you honestly think his same tricks would work again? Same things goes for Killerbee reguarding Sasuke but to a lesser extent because he lack of the Sharigan.

How does the Sharingan help him in the upcoming fight? I don't understand your logic. You think since he has sharingan,Bee's style and jutsu won't be effective? that's ridiculous, How? Hachibi's style doesn't consist of hand seals and there's nothing to copy?...Sasuke was beat because Hachibi was better, the sharingan or previous battle exp. can't help him with that.

You also seem to think, because he has sharingan, his tactics and strategy will somehow be better than Hachibi's because he's sharingan-less? Somebody is in love with the sharingan, as demenstrated in the Rock Lee v. Sasuke fight, it doesn't matter if you can see someone, if your not physically able to counter, it's meaningless.And, Bee has been shown to have overwhelm Sasuke previously.

What do you mean by "Tricks"? You think because Sasuke knows how Bee fights he'll become stronger or develop better jutsu to counter him?


No, its not believable to say he could use his Kawarimi in any form, and it wasn't so much a Kawarimi in the traditional sense.

Killerbee transformed, and like all Jinichuriki, his actual body was inside of the transformation. Sasuke hit the transformation, which is basically chakra manifesting itself into a monster like form. Killerbee himself never actually got touched, and therefore he was able to break off from his transformation unharmed and create a clone of himself using a piece of the biju's body.

I don't see your point? he could just as easily use something else to substitute with besides a tail, It just made the most sense at the time, I also don't see why he can't use the jutsu in any form specifically, Also, Amaterasu doesnt kill a person instantly(As seen with Karin and Sasuke) so he has time to use his jutsu in Base mode, he also has a shroud in tail mode to delay the effects as well, Your assuption, is no better than mine.


Ameratsu is undodgeable, in ever instance it's been used with the intent of hitting a target, it has. If Sasuke wished, he could look at Killerbee's face and kill him on the spot with Ameratsu. End of story, there really is no arguing that.

Amaterasu can only be used by activating MS, and has never been shown to instantly kill anybody, so there's at least 2 instances(not included my opinion on the Tsukiyomi requirement) that a ninja has time to counter the justu, it's not the end-all-be-all of jutsu, it's been countered twice and has never killed anybody.


And until we see Killerbee use a Kawarimi justu like Orochimaru's in his base form, its like assuming Sasuke can use normal genjutsu, so don't say he can as a defense against Ameratsu.

Too late.


Sasuke is the most well rounded fighter in the entire manga, he can tailor his style to his opponents strengths and weaknesses, he's done so in every fight he's been in.


He is well rounded but,Let's not go over board, also as with well rounded fighters, he's not amazing in most catagories either, his Tai is weak, and he's shown very little Genjutsu, he has no summons and his chakra capacity is Average.

Just because someone knows the strengths and weakness of there opponent doesnt mean they can win the next time, The Hachibi fight is a prime example.


He holds a wide variety of jutsu that are mid-long range, in fact the only jutsu and techniques of his that are close range are his sword techniques and his orginal chidori and of course taijutsu. All of his Katon's, half his Raton's, and all of his shurkien jutsu, which are somewhat his speciality, are all long range attacks.

Raiton doesn't work to well against bee, and your asking the impossible out of Sasuke, Like I stated before he has always gone in close with all his opponents(even Dei) it's his style, If he doesn't go in, he would cease to be well rounded anymore, Bee would be able to figure him out alot sooner.Also, who's to say Sasuke will be able to stay away from Bee forever anyway?


And in every instance where he goes in close to fight someone, its been with the intention of ending the fight and killing the person, he rarley if ever does so from the beginning.

That's why anybody goes in close to fight. He went in close early against Itachi, Bee, and Tried against Dei.


Sasuke has used Sharigna Genjutsu before, he did so when he was fighting Itachi and Deiadra. In fact he used the same strategy of dying to trick Deiadra.

Naruto was caught in a genjutsu before and didn't know it, Killerbee hasn't shown himself to be a battle genius or a genjutsu type. If he doesn't know he is in one, he wouldn't try and break it.

Tsyukiyomi's has two weaknesses, 1) It drains the users of a lot of chakra, and 2) It's obvious as fuck. Killerbee knew he was in a genjutsu and so he tried to break out of it. If Sasuke made an illusion of himself dying, Killerbee wouldn't suspect anything most likely.


Bee has been shown to be a battle expert, he analyzed sasuke's use of Raiton, Karin's chakra sensing etc., He was more impressive than Sasuke was at least.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/

Hachibi explains his means of escaping Genjustu right in the middle of the page, which is stated,obviously as a reference to The Chiyo/Naruto Comment.

8 tails acts as his partner and disturbs his chakra for him, it doesn't matter if Bee thinks the illusion is real, his partner can see(by the way Bee acts or sensing the incoming chakra) that he's in a genjutsu and can forcefully break him out.

Bee also states:
"My Partner is the beast inside me. Illusions won't work on a host who can control their beast"

He stated illusions in general in black and white, he didn't say Sasuke's justu specifically.


I'll state this. Is Killerbee superior to Sasuke? In many aspects he is. Does that mean he will win? Fuck no.

It does mean that he has a better chance of winning,which is the main point.


What people don't understand is that simply because someone has beaten someone before, does not mean they always will defeat them. Not to mentiion that in this scenerio, Sasuke is allowed to KILL Killerbee. If you forget, his intentions where to CAPTURE him last time. There's also the fact that he's fought him before.

He only tried to capture him in the beginning, after that, he fought to kill, he didn't even know he could end Amaterasu.


Also, the fight more or less comes down to one jutsu. Ameratsu. And saying that, only a handful of ninja in the manga can deal with that attack without dying for sure, and almost all of them are now dead. Killerbee, isn't one of those ninja, unless he is fully transformed.

This statement made very little sense. Killer Bee IS one of the handfull of ninja who can/has escaped Amaterasu, and being in Full Transformation, is a very real scenario.


If Sasuke didn't have Ameratsu, he would lose. Too bad he does have it, and it would make him win. His only other shot would be to trick Killerbee with genjutsu and kill him that way, otherwise, Killerbee wins the fight nearly every time most likely.

You've admitted a few times(more or less) that if the two were to fight, Bee would come out on top most of the time, so it's much more likely that Bee would win if they fought. Were not debating if Sasuke CAN win, You seem to think if Sasuke has a chance of winning(amaterasu) then he will win, which shows a very undeniable preference to said character, when it's obvious (to most of us,at least) that the odds of him winning are heavily stacked against him.

[Delbi]

@Spike

Reguarding Ameratsu. If it could be escaped with any normal Kawarimi then Sasuke would of never used Orochimaru's verson to excape it and lose the majority of his chakra while fighting his brother.

Fact is, you need something special to escape Amertasu, otherwise you are fucked, same goes for Bee. He needs to be fully transformed to escape Ameratsu, we have no evidence that he can do so otherwise.

And as you said, transforming used up all his chakra, if he transformed again against Sasuke, Sasuke would light his ass on fire again, and this time not put the flames out, if he could escape again, he'd be weak and Sasuke would have the advantage, hell he could use Ameratasu a second time and kill him.

All of the advantages Killerbee have against Sasuke are moot because of Ameratsu. This happened when Orochimaru fought Sasuke. Sasuke acknowledged that Orochimaru was stronger, yet it was Sasuke's Sharigan Genjutsu that made all of Oro's strength useless. One of Oro's most powerful techniques, his soul transfer jutsu was render uselss against Sasuke.

So, in fact, the majority of the time, Sasuke would win this fight. The MS has now become his favorite jutsu to use, and if he knew he had to fight Killerbee, someone who is superior to him, he'd use it right away especially since he has prior knowledge of him.

Sasuke MS can be activated with little to no effor from what we have seen, and the jutsu works instantly, all in all, it probably takes a second at most to take effect, unless Killerbee can move at the speed of light, he isn't going to avoid Amerastsu unless Sasuke decides he doesn't want to hit him.

As for Tsyukiyomi being a pre-cursor to Ameratsu, that really is just your opinion and has never been mentioned in the manga or a data book, if it was infact true, I think it would of been mentioned by now. Each eye controls a different technique, that's all we know and that's all that has been proven.

[Raizen]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
i agree with kkck, tsunade is clearly being underestimated. She is hokage and a sannin for f-ing sake. She defintely has more than just her medical skills. i mean one touch of hers would either leave you paralyzed or dead. A true monster. I say good match, but tsunade has more battle experience

Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
How is this even a question. J-man would beat him even without HM. Just use the frog stomach and let him rot. If he escapes with amaretsu, then he just wasted a ton of chakra and now i vulnerable to J-man. rasengan, needle jizo, SOTu, etc. Easy win for J-man

Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
I always questioned Kisame's strength. But seeing as how he was partner with itachi he should know full well of how to fight a sharingan user. I say kisame

Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Unfortunately we hav eno idea what is going on with gaara so sauke wins :(

Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Kimi is extremely powerful in taijutsu, but sasuke has other weapons at has disposal so sasuke wins

Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
hachibi was a beast. He was toying with taka, writing poeams, singing, etc and he still pwned them. He stated himself he didn't need to transform but just did it b/c he got carried away. If they were to fight again with both having knowledge of the other, sasuke's amaretsu and tsukyomi are uselesss b/c hachibi can counter one and now he is aware of the other. He would DESTROY sasuke. how is this even in question??

Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
POison... sasori wins

Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
If asuma had developed his fuuton and katon skills more he would be a much bigger powerhouse. I guess sasuke wins

Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
itachi doesn''t need MS to beat sasuke. He only used them to push sasuke to his limit fast b/c he was going to die soon. Itachi could use quick suiton or katon like against kakashi and KB bombs and sasuke would lose

Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
old or not, sarutobi would win. He is the fucking hokage. He knows about the sharingan, its genjutsu and most likely its other techniques seeing as how he is the student of the 2 ninjas who fought the most powerful uchiha. Also, he fought against 3 kage level ninjas and was able to subdue them. Sasuke is good but he can't beat sarutobi

[Spike Spiegal]

@Spike
Reguarding Ameratsu. If it could be escaped with any normal Kawarimi then Sasuke would of never used Orochimaru's verson to excape it and lose the majority of his chakra while fighting his brother.
I never stated it was Kawarimi, i've stated Kawarimi-esque, because were unsure, atm, exactly what/how the jutsu Bee used works/or called.

Fact is, you need something special to escape Amertasu, otherwise you are fucked, same goes for Bee. He needs to be fully transformed to escape Ameratsu, we have no evidence that he can do so otherwise.
Same can be said about your assumption, if Bee only used the jutsu once against a tech(that was used once)its sounds presumptious to assume that he can ONLY, use the tech, in Full Transformation.

And as you said, transforming used up all his chakra, if he transformed again against Sasuke, Sasuke would light his ass on fire again, and this time not put the flames out, if he could escape again, he'd be weak and Sasuke would have the advantage, hell he could use Ameratasu a second time and kill him.
We don't know if Sasuke, is capable of using Back to Back(or even two for that matter) Amaterasu in a single battle, so that is an assumption. Bee didn't use all his chakra Transforming, he used a large/majority portion.

All of the advantages Killerbee have against Sasuke are moot because of Ameratsu. This happened when Orochimaru fought Sasuke. Sasuke acknowledged that Orochimaru was stronger, yet it was Sasuke's Sharigan Genjutsu that made all of Oro's strength useless. One of Oro's most powerful techniques, his soul transfer jutsu was render uselss against Sasuke.
This is just plain silly, Oro doesn't = Bee, so the can't be compared in that sense at all. Moreover, Genjutsu is futile against Bee,he has handled the MS with little problem(escaped Tsuki and Ama) so your statement is extremely invalid, and contridictary to the Manga and there previous encounter.

So, in fact, the majority of the time, Sasuke would win this fight. The MS has now become his favorite jutsu to use, and if he knew he had to fight Killerbee, someone who is superior to him, he'd use it right away especially since he has prior knowledge of him.

Sasuke MS can be activated with little to no effor from what we have seen, and the jutsu works instantly, all in all, it probably takes a second at most to take effect, unless Killerbee can move at the speed of light, he isn't going to avoid Amerastsu unless Sasuke decides he doesn't want to hit him.

As for Tsyukiyomi being a pre-cursor to Ameratsu, that really is just your opinion and has never been mentioned in the manga or a data book, if it was infact true, I think it would of been mentioned by now. Each eye controls a different technique, that's all we know and that's all that has been proven.
I admitted that it's only speculation, but it's backed with evidence.
It hasn't been stated in words but, there has never been an instance that Ama was used, without Tsukiyomi being used prior(excluding Itachi's Rigged Ama). that's fact, whether it be for story/plot purposes, remains to be seen, I can atleast say that it isn't blind assumption without proof, and can validly state it goes against the manga to think Amaterasu can be used before Tsuki, since it's never happened.

Sasuke has only used the MS twice in battle and has shown huge side effects, MS, although useful, are not Sasuke's favorite techs, and he'd would be wise to not heavily rely on them.

Amaterasu still takes time to kill the opponent, add the changing to MS(probably a sec) and picking the appropriate target/area, and theres a window of oppurtunity to counter.

[Delbi]

I never stated it was Kawarimi, i've stated Kawarimi-esque, because were unsure, atm, exactly what/how the jutsu Bee used works/or called.

He somehow replaced his body with a tenticle, a tenticle in which he can't get to unless he is fully transformed.



Same can be said about your assumption, if Bee only used the jutsu once against a tech(that was used once)its sounds presumptious to assume that he can ONLY, use the tech, in Full Transformation.

I'm not assuming, we have only seen him use it while fully transformed, therefore in this discussion we should only consider him using it in that form. I'm not being presumptious when I say that, I'm simply stating a fact in the manga.



We don't know if Sasuke, is capable of using Back to Back(or even two for that matter) Amaterasu in a single battle, so that is an assumption. Bee didn't use all his chakra Transforming, he used a large/majority portion.

Aside from that fact that Sasuke wasn't even fully recovered from fighting Itachi, he used Tsyukiyomi, Ameratsu, Chidori's etc while fighting Bee, and he also put out Ameratsu. I'd say he could use it twice in a fight considering his brother also could, who has less Stamina than Sasuke.



This is just plain silly, Oro doesn't = Bee, so the can't be compared in that sense at all. Moreover, Genjutsu is futile against Bee,he has handled the MS with little problem(escaped Tsuki and Ama) so your statement is extremely invalid, and contridictary to the Manga and there previous encounter.

Wasn't my point. Point is that one jutsu can make a difference in a fight. In this fight Ameratsu is that difference.



I admitted that it's only speculation, but it's backed with evidence.
It hasn't been stated in words but, there has never been an instance that Ama was used, without Tsukiyomi being used prior(excluding Itachi's Rigged Ama). that's fact, whether it be for story/plot purposes, remains to be seen, I can atleast say that it isn't blind assumption without proof, and can validly state it goes against the manga to think Amaterasu can be used before Tsuki, since it's never happened.

It may not be blind, but is sure is an absurd assumption if you ask me. The reason Tsyukiyomi has always been used first, is because of the situations either Itachi or Sasuke were in.

Itachi used Tsyukiyomi on Sasuke after the massicare to inspire fear and hatred in his brother. He used in on Kakashi becuase he didn't need to kill him. He used it again on Sasuke in Part 2 because Sasuke provoked him and they were admist a genjutsu battle. Sasuke used in on Killerbee before Ameratsu because he wanted him alive.



Sasuke has only used the MS twice in battle and has shown huge side effects, MS, although useful, are not Sasuke's favorite techs, and he'd would be wise to not heavily rely on them.

Once he obtained MS, he stated he would use that to destroy Konoha. Also, while Ameratsu may not be his favorite, after fighting Killerbee he remarks that Ameratsu is what will help him destroy Konoha, so I'd say it's become his new favorite toy. Not to mention is power is far greater than his other jutsus.



Amaterasu still takes time to kill the opponent, add the changing to MS(probably a sec) and picking the appropriate target/area, and theres a window of oppurtunity to counter.
Look back to when Itachi fought Sasuke, Sasuke's Kawarrmi got burnt in a matter of seconds. Karin nearly died in a matter of second if Sasuke didn't save her.

There is no countering this technique, you have to try and escape it. Sasuke who knew all about it and ackwoledged that vs. his brother, he didn't even try and dodge it, he knew he had to escape it.

[The_Drunk]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade... Tsunade lacks diversity... let me put it to you this way... Tsunade is not a fighter she is a medical ninja... even Kabuto was kicking her ass.
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)... I think everyone pretty much agrees with this one
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame... from what I've seen it would be a close fight. Sasuke is still no where near his brothers skill level and he no longer has CS. Sasuke's speed is a lot slower and the only reason I gave this to Sasuke is because of those eyes. Other than that... he would lose to Kisame.
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version) I believe that Gaara has the complete package to defeat Sasuke. Gaara has developed jutsus to adapt to lightning with the use of lighting rods as seen in the movie, Tsyukiyomi wouldn't work because believe it or not there are two people there... The sand has it's own chakra that protects him and himself so it nullifies it. Also MS wouldn't be able to penetrate the sand. By the second time Sasuke uses it he will be out of chakra and won't be able to continue. It's just a bad matchup against Gaara. Gaara is a long range fighter and Sasuke is a close range fighter. More than likely they would be fighting in Gaaras home town because he needs to protect the village so lets just say they are outside the gates surrounded by sand. Please... it would be over in a heart beat. Especially since he can't fly anymore.
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness) The bones are nice but Sasuke's electric sword should cut through it like butter.
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai Why did you even put this one in there.. you might as well and put Sasuke up again Lee. Asuma didn't live up to his bloodline. Man he sucked.
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)... Itachi is 100%!!!! Man please... Itachi was just playing around with his little brother... He let his ass live.
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi... You know I think that Sarutobi might take this one. He was a crafty old man that if he had been prepared to fight Oro he would have one easily. Pulling out two caskets with two Hokages came at him out of left field, and he still managed to stop Oro. That is amazing!
Round 11: Sasuke vs Naruto... Sasuke's just too slow to keep up with Naruto now. After he lost his CS and white snakes power he is now slower and can't fly.
Round 12: Sasuke vs Pain... Man Pain has got this one. There is no way Sasuke could have matched Pain power.

That's it... 12 rounds of boxing... or we can go old school and make it 15 rounds

Round 13: Sasuke vs Minato... Need I say more.... that's freeking M.I.N.A.T.O that I'm talking about.
Round 14: Sasuke vs Madara... Madara's already using Sasuke
Round 15: Sasuke vs 8 tails (rematch)I'm sorry but, I looks like the 8 tails was looking for a way out. So he was just putting up a show just to get out of the village.
[hr]
Oh... I forgot the best one of all
Round 16 Sasuke vs Oro ( can use his arms and doesn't want his body)... I'm going to say that Sasuke would be dead on this one. If Oro had the use of his arms it would be a different story. If he was able to hold his own against J-man he would quickly take out Sasuke..

[Delbi]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade... Tsunade lacks diversity... let me put it to you this way... Tsunade is not a fighter she is a medical ninja... even Kabuto was kicking her ass.
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)... I think everyone pretty much agrees with this one
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame... from what I've seen it would be a close fight. Sasuke is still no where near his brothers skill level and he no longer has CS. Sasuke's speed is a lot slower and the only reason I gave this to Sasuke is because of those eyes. Other than that... he would lose to Kisame.
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version) I believe that Gaara has the complete package to defeat Sasuke. Gaara has developed jutsus to adapt to lightning with the use of lighting rods as seen in the movie, Tsyukiyomi wouldn't work because believe it or not there are two people there... The sand has it's own chakra that protects him and himself so it nullifies it. Also MS wouldn't be able to penetrate the sand. By the second time Sasuke uses it he will be out of chakra and won't be able to continue. It's just a bad matchup against Gaara. Gaara is a long range fighter and Sasuke is a close range fighter. More than likely they would be fighting in Gaaras home town because he needs to protect the village so lets just say they are outside the gates surrounded by sand. Please... it would be over in a heart beat. Especially since he can't fly anymore.
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness) The bones are nice but Sasuke's electric sword should cut through it like butter.
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai Why did you even put this one in there.. you might as well and put Sasuke up again Lee. Asuma didn't live up to his bloodline. Man he sucked.
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)... Itachi is 100%!!!! Man please... Itachi was just playing around with his little brother... He let his ass live.
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi... You know I think that Sarutobi might take this one. He was a crafty old man that if he had been prepared to fight Oro he would have one easily. Pulling out two caskets with two Hokages came at him out of left field, and he still managed to stop Oro. That is amazing!
Round 11: Sasuke vs Naruto... Sasuke's just too slow to keep up with Naruto now. After he lost his CS and white snakes power he is now slower and can't fly.
Round 12: Sasuke vs Pain... Man Pain has got this one. There is no way Sasuke could have matched Pain power.

That's it... 12 rounds of boxing... or we can go old school and make it 15 rounds

Round 13: Sasuke vs Minato... Need I say more.... that's freeking M.I.N.A.T.O that I'm talking about.
Round 14: Sasuke vs Madara... Madara's already using Sasuke
Round 15: Sasuke vs 8 tails (rematch)I'm sorry but, I looks like the 8 tails was looking for a way out. So he was just putting up a show just to get out of the village.
<hr noshade size="1">
Oh... I forgot the best one of all
Round 16 Sasuke vs Oro ( can use his arms and doesn't want his body)... I'm going to say that Sasuke would be dead on this one. If Oro had the use of his arms it would be a different story. If he was able to hold his own against J-man he would quickly take out Sasuke..

Well, we aren't talking about movies here, so Gaara would have no such advantage against Sasuke, not to mention Sasuke's lightning chakra is far superior to Gaara's sand. Also, Sasuke isn't a close range fighter, he can fight at any range. He would kill Gaara in a matter of seconds.

[Shaunlim]

@Spike

Reguarding Ameratsu. If it could be escaped with any normal Kawarimi then Sasuke would of never used Orochimaru's verson to excape it and lose the majority of his chakra while fighting his brother.



That's untrue. Itachi have already mentioned this actually. Only reason why Orochimaru's kawamiri was used there was because it is harder to detect. Thus giving Sasuke the advantage to attack from below. So, there is no proof on the fact that a normal Kawamiri can't be used to defend against Amateratsu.

In fact, as a matter of fact, a CS2 Sasuke was already outrunning Itachi's Amateratsu. And he probably let himself get caught in it to continue on with his plan for Kirin and attacking Itachi from below.

[Delbi]

That's untrue. Itachi have already mentioned this actually. Only reason why Orochimaru's kawamiri was used there was because it is harder to detect. Thus giving Sasuke the advantage to attack from below. So, there is no proof on the fact that a normal Kawamiri can't be used to defend against Amateratsu.

In fact, as a matter of fact, a CS2 Sasuke was already outrunning Itachi's Amateratsu. And he probably let himself get caught in it to continue on with his plan for Kirin and attacking Itachi from below.

Itachi used Ameratsu for defensive purposes, then allowed it to chase Sasuke. If he summoned it right on top of Sasuke he wouldn't of been able to escape it.

Sasuke even mentioned that he has to wait to use Orochimaru's jutsu. It had nothing to do with escaping underneith, he could of saved a lot of chakra by not using it if he could of escaped normally. He made a crack in the floor to escape through. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/

The top left panel shows his hand making the crack, Orochimaur's replacement allowed him to hide better to escape that's all. If a nomral Kawarimi could escape Ameratsu then it would be a pointless jutsu seeing as how any ninja could escape it, even an acdemey student.

[Shaunlim]

Itachi used Ameratsu for defensive purposes, then allowed it to chase Sasuke. If he summoned it right on top of Sasuke he wouldn't of been able to escape it.

Sasuke even mentioned that he has to wait to use Orochimaru's jutsu. It had nothing to do with escaping underneith, he could of saved a lot of chakra by not using it if he could of escaped normally. He made a crack in the floor to escape through. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/

The top left panel shows his hand making the crack, Orochimaur's replacement allowed him to hide better to escape that's all. If a nomral Kawarimi could escape Ameratsu then it would be a pointless jutsu seeing as how any ninja could escape it, even an acdemey student.

1. Itachi held back on Sasuke. We all know that. But the fact is that Amateratsu can still be outrunned if one knows it is coming and has the speed/ ST jutsu.

2. Proving my point that the entire reason he used Orochimaru's technique was to surprise attack Itachi with the Katon jutsu and then follow it up with Kirin. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/10/

3. That's like saying if everyone knows KB and rasengan, they would defeat Pain. That's not true. It also depends on the skill of the user. How efficient one can use their jutsu.

[Delbi]

1. Itachi held back on Sasuke. We all know that. But the fact is that Amateratsu can still be outrunned if one knows it is coming and has the speed/ ST jutsu.

2. Proving my point that the entire reason he used Orochimaru's technique was to surprise attack Itachi with the Katon jutsu and then follow it up with Kirin. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/10/

3. That's like saying if everyone knows KB and rasengan, they would defeat Pain. That's not true. It also depends on the skill of the user. How efficient one can use their jutsu.

1. That's not my point, Ameratsu can be summoned anywhere the user wants. Sasuke can summon it on Killerbee's face and he wouldn't be able to outrun it.

2. Ok, thats wonderful, but fact is, he needed that technique to escape Ameratsu, its not like he could of used anything else to escape it. Ameratsu has been escaped twice, both times the person who escaped it was exausted.

3. A Kawarimi is a E-Rank jutsu. Kage Bushin is A ranked, and so is Rasengan, and FRS is S-ranked. Fact is, to escape Ameratsu you need something special. Not everyone can learn Kage Bushin and Rasengan while anyone can learn a Kawarimi.

[Shaunlim]

1. That's not my point, Ameratsu can be summoned anywhere the user wants. Sasuke can summon it on Killerbee's face and he wouldn't be able to outrun it.

2. Ok, thats wonderful, but fact is, he needed that technique to escape Ameratsu, its not like he could of used anything else to escape it. Ameratsu has been escaped twice, both times the person who escaped it was exausted.

3. A Kawarimi is a E-Rank jutsu. Kage Bushin is A ranked, and so is Rasengan, and FRS is S-ranked. Fact is, to escape Ameratsu you need something special. Not everyone can learn Kage Bushin and Rasengan while anyone can learn a Kawarimi.

1. And Killerbee is just going to stand still while Sasuke does his stuff? Since it is a battle, I"m going to assume that he would be moving around much more. Especially since he won't tire out easily.

2. That's not a fact. The fact is that he used it to avoid detection and to use his Kirin. So, unless you can show me something else that states that Kawamiri isn't capable of avoiding Amateratsu, it's not a fact that it can't.

3. So...Konohamaru is capable of defeating Pain then? This is as good as saying that if the early Sasuke in Part 1 with MS is capable of winning against Itachi. Having the necessary jutsu to win is one thing, but possessing the skills to use it to the max is another.

[Delbi]

1. And Killerbee is just going to stand still while Sasuke does his stuff? Since it is a battle, I"m going to assume that he would be moving around much more. Especially since he won't tire out easily.

2. That's not a fact. The fact is that he used it to avoid detection and to use his Kirin. So, unless you can show me something else that states that Kawamiri isn't capable of avoiding Amateratsu, it's not a fact that it can't.

3. So...Konohamaru is capable of defeating Pain then? This is as good as saying that if the early Sasuke in Part 1 with MS is capable of winning against Itachi. Having the necessary jutsu to win is one thing, but possessing the skills to use it to the max is another.

1. Killerbee can move around all he wants, it takes about 2 seconds to activate Ameratsu and use it, all Sasuke has to do is look at Killerbee and summon the Ameratsu on him. This is what makes the jutsu so dangerous, it can be summoned literally anywhere the user is looking.

2. If it's not a fact, but think of this. A Kawarimi is a replacement jutsu, you replace your body with an object. If Ameratsu appears right on you, you can't replace your body withsomething seeing as how your body is on fire.

Orochimaru's jutsu could defeat that because Sasuke literally shed his skin and formed a new body more or less. Killerbee's actually body wasn't hit with Ameratsu, but if he didn't detach himself from his large form he would of eventually been hit.

So, all in all, because of how Ameratsu functions and works, no a regular Kawarimi can not escape it, you need something special to get away from Ameratsu.

3. Sasuke has shown great ability with Ameratsu, he can summon it anywhere he wants, and he can make the flames go out if he pleases. He's skilled enough to kill Killerbee with it without a doubt.

[Shaunlim]

1. Killerbee can move around all he wants, it takes about 2 seconds to activate Ameratsu and use it, all Sasuke has to do is look at Killerbee and summon the Ameratsu on him. This is what makes the jutsu so dangerous, it can be summoned literally anywhere the user is looking.

2. If it's not a fact, but think of this. A Kawarimi is a replacement jutsu, you replace your body with an object. If Ameratsu appears right on you, you can't replace your body withsomething seeing as how your body is on fire.

Orochimaru's jutsu could defeat that because Sasuke literally shed his skin and formed a new body more or less. Killerbee's actually body wasn't hit with Ameratsu, but if he didn't detach himself from his large form he would of eventually been hit.

So, all in all, because of how Ameratsu functions and works, no a regular Kawarimi can not escape it, you need something special to get away from Ameratsu.

3. Sasuke has shown great ability with Ameratsu, he can summon it anywhere he wants, and he can make the flames go out if he pleases. He's skilled enough to kill Killerbee with it without a doubt.

1. That's as good as saying that Sasuke is the strongest character now since he can kill anyone with a single look. Killerbee have shown to be able to use ST or just having the greatest speed feat in the manga so far. All he has to do is move around attacking Sasuke and if needed, he can use his ST/speed to help him escape. And the point again is that Sasuke have managed to do that before in CS2.

2. That's not necessarily true. As since when Sasuke was outrunning Amateratsu, at that moment if he were to use a normal Kawamiri, it would still work since the fire haven't touched him yet.

3. Sasuke haven't shown anything in Amateratsu besides being able to summon and put it out. Only Itachi have shown anything special with Amateratsu. From turning it off to dragging it to blowing up walls with it. Sasuke haven't shown anything like that.

[Delbi]

1. That's as good as saying that Sasuke is the strongest character now since he can kill anyone with a single look. Killerbee have shown to be able to use ST or just having the greatest speed feat in the manga so far. All he has to do is move around attacking Sasuke and if needed, he can use his ST/speed to help him escape. And the point again is that Sasuke have managed to do that before in CS2.

2. That's not necessarily true. As since when Sasuke was outrunning Amateratsu, at that moment if he were to use a normal Kawamiri, it would still work since the fire haven't touched him yet.

3. Sasuke haven't shown anything in Amateratsu besides being able to summon and put it out. Only Itachi have shown anything special with Amateratsu. From turning it off to dragging it to blowing up walls with it. Sasuke haven't shown anything like that.

1. Sasuke can't kill Madara with Ameratsu since Madara can phase through it. He could kill Naruto, but Naruto has shadow clones that would make it difficult for Sasuke to target the real Naruto. Aside from these two, their is Pain, who Sasuke could only target 1 body at a time. I don't think its bad to say Sasuke is can beat everone in the manga except for Naruto, Madara, and Pain.

2. I know that, but if Ameratsu was summoned on him, like he would do against Bee, he couldn't use a regular one.

3. Huh? Sasuke and Itachi's use of Ameratsu has been the same, both can summon it anywhere then exitguish it if they want. They both suffer from the same after effects as well.

[Shaunlim]

1. Sasuke can't kill Madara with Ameratsu since Madara can phase through it. He could kill Naruto, but Naruto has shadow clones that would make it difficult for Sasuke to target the real Naruto. Aside from these two, their is Pain, who Sasuke could only target 1 body at a time. I don't think its bad to say Sasuke is can beat everone in the manga except for Naruto, Madara, and Pain.

2. I know that, but if Ameratsu was summoned on him, like he would do against Bee, he couldn't use a regular one.

3. Huh? Sasuke and Itachi's use of Ameratsu has been the same, both can summon it anywhere then exitguish it if they want. They both suffer from the same after effects as well.

1. You're just avoiding the main point here. Fact is, Amateratsu can be outrunned and Sasuke have shown it. So if Hachibi has a higher speed or equal amount of speed, then he is capable of avoiding it being summoned on him.

2. That's another assumption on your behalf. You believe that it could be summoned on him even though Hachibi have shown to be insanely fast. Which would allow him to avoid that situation.

3. You missed the part where Itachi can actually dragged the Amateratsu around and blow away frog covered walls which Sasuke haven't shown to be capable of. So until then, Sasuke hasn't shown any impressive or great ability with Amateratsu.

[Delbi]

1. You're just avoiding the main point here. Fact is, Amateratsu can be outrunned and Sasuke have shown it. So if Hachibi has a higher speed or equal amount of speed, then he is capable of avoiding it being summoned on him.

2. That's another assumption on your behalf. You believe that it could be summoned on him even though Hachibi have shown to be insanely fast. Which would allow him to avoid that situation.

3. You missed the part where Itachi can actually dragged the Amateratsu around and blow away frog covered walls which Sasuke haven't shown to be capable of. So until then, Sasuke hasn't shown any impressive or great ability with Amateratsu.

1. How can he avoid it? Sasuke has the Sharigan and can see all of Killerbee's moves, if he can see him he can summon Ameratsu on him, that's all there is too it. It doesn't matter how fast you are, if the user of Ameratsu can see you, he can summon it on you.

2. This isn't an assumption, its a fact. Ameratsu is summoned wherever the user is looking. Sasuke has the Sharigan if you forget, even though Killerbee is faster than him, he's not faster than Sasuke's eyes, and will never get out of Sasuke's vision, therefore Sasuke would hit him with Ameratsu everytime,
Their have been one instances where Sasuke's Sharigan couldn't keep up with somethings movements, and those were Itachi's hand while they were in a genjutsu. Killerbee's entire body, I assure you, is not going to be faster than Itachi's hands.

3. Sasuke brought down the second strongest Biju to our knowledge with Ameratsu. I'm pretty sure he could destroy the frog wall with it as well seeing as how Sasuke's Ameratsu is no different from Itachi's in its effect. As for it following him things, I'd say it took more out of both of them to stop it rather than for Itachi to make it follow Sasuke, I think it can be safely assumed that Sasuke can manipulate the flames in any way he wants if he can both summon them and extinguish them. He simply hasn't had a reason to make them track a target yet.

[The_Drunk]

1. How can he avoid it? Sasuke has the Sharigan and can see all of Killerbee's moves, if he can see him he can summon Ameratsu on him, that's all there is too it. It doesn't matter how fast you are, if the user of Ameratsu can see you, he can summon it on you.

Look man I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Sasuke and Gaara because we haven't seen them go head to head. So it's an opinion and everyone is entitled to it. Especially if there is no hard evidence to prove ones case all we can do is speculate. Now when you say that Sasuke can defeat Killerbee. Come on man..... go back and read the rules... its a one on one fight. It's not team hawk vs Killerbee. If I recall Sasuke was on the brink of death twice and was saved twice by his TEAM. Sasuke may have a wicked eye but his arrogance that he is superior to everyone else is what makes him weak. That's why Killerbee pretty much killed him twice. One with his swords that stuck him all over his body and his TEAMMATE told him to bite her so that it would heal his wounds. Then he got hit with the horns and had a big hole in chest that was patched up by his TEAMMATE. Even after all of that... Killerbee got what he wanted... to put up a show and make it seam as though he was killed so that he could become a star. THESE ARE HARD FACTS AND NOT SPECULATIONS. PLEASE READ THE MANGA. I'm not trying to be rude but I just finish reading your arguments and your just rambling off nonsense that are only speculations. I mean it's fine to speculate, but not if there are facts. That's only trying to twist it to something that will never happen and has not happened in the manga

[ninjabot]

More than likely they would be fighting in Gaaras home town because he needs to protect the village so lets just say they are outside the gates surrounded by sand.

Every fight in this thread takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena.

[The_Drunk]

Every fight in this thread takes place in the Chuunin Exams arena. As long as it's not on a lake..I don't care where it takes place... there is sand everywhere.... and I do believe that there are many benefits to Gaara's sand that will take Sasuke out of his game. He can create a sand storm.... but that would be too easy right.... why would Kishi bust that out? That would make it an uneven fight right. who can see in a sand storm... that alone would handicap Sasuke from using any of his eye techniques... which leaves him only with his electricity... anyways... it doesn't matter... Sasuke vs Gaara will never happen again... but atleast I can tell you that Sasuke lost once to Gaara already.... what makes you think Gaara can't do it again. That's one for Gaara and zero for Sasuke.... So hopefully that will make you sleep better at night

[ninjabot]

but atleast I can tell you that Sasuke lost once to Gaara already.... what makes you think Gaara can't do it again.

Are you serious? Just a quick quesion: do you know why Gaara managed to beat Sasuke? Sasuke wasted too much chakra injuring him with Chidori and Gaara just got stronger and stronger as Shukaku awakened. He outlasted him.

Shukaku isn't allowed in this fight. And Gaara is limited to the sand he has in his gourd until he gets the time to mix it with the sand beneath him. And I don't have to speak on the speed difference between the two fighters...

Basically the fight goes EXACTLY how it did in the Chuunin exams (Sasuke speed-blitzing Gaara into a bloody pulp as he outruns his sand). The only difference is Gaara doesn't get a bail-out from his Bijuu.

So I ask again: Who would win between the said opponents?

[Delbi]

Look man I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Sasuke and Gaara because we haven't seen them go head to head. So it's an opinion and everyone is entitled to it. Especially if there is no hard evidence to prove ones case all we can do is speculate. Now when you say that Sasuke can defeat Killerbee. Come on man..... go back and read the rules... its a one on one fight. It's not team hawk vs Killerbee. If I recall Sasuke was on the brink of death twice and was saved twice by his TEAM. Sasuke may have a wicked eye but his arrogance that he is superior to everyone else is what makes him weak. That's why Killerbee pretty much killed him twice. One with his swords that stuck him all over his body and his TEAMMATE told him to bite her so that it would heal his wounds. Then he got hit with the horns and had a big hole in chest that was patched up by his TEAMMATE. Even after all of that... Killerbee got what he wanted... to put up a show and make it seam as though he was killed so that he could become a star. THESE ARE HARD FACTS AND NOT SPECULATIONS. PLEASE READ THE MANGA. I'm not trying to be rude but I just finish reading your arguments and your just rambling off nonsense that are only speculations. I mean it's fine to speculate, but not if there are facts. That's only trying to twist it to something that will never happen and has not happened in the manga

When Killerbee can defeat Sasuke's Ametastsu, then he could defeat Sasuke. Until then, Killerbee loses, that isn't speculation, it's a fact. I'm not rambling off nonsense, I'm stating facts, if you don't want to believe them, that's fine.

If you understand how Ameratsu works, then you're just hating on Sasuke if you think Killerbee can't be beat with it.

ANYTHING Sasuke looks at can be caught on fire, instantly when he summons Ameratsu. All of Killerbee's strength, speed, and stamina, are for naught against this jutsu.

From what we have seen, using facts, not assumptions and speculation, the only way Killerbee can ESCAPE, not even AVOID Ameratsu is by transforming into his final form. By doing this he wastes all of his chakra as his Biju noted, and this would leave him vulnerable to Sasuke's onslaught of flames as hot as the sun.

Killerbee is superior to Sasuke in many ways, but Ameratsu as we have seen, was enough to take Killerbee out of the fight. Sasuke wouldn't make the same mistakes he did in their first fight, he wouldn't try and capture him, he's used Ameratsu immediatly and kill him, he'd have to against this kind of opponent.

[ameya730]

When Killerbee can defeat Sasuke's Ametastsu, then he could defeat Sasuke. Until then, Killerbee loses, that isn't speculation, it's a fact. I'm not rambling off nonsense, I'm stating facts, if you don't want to believe them, that's fine.

If you understand how Ameratsu works, then you're just hating on Sasuke if you think Killerbee can't be beat with it.

ANYTHING Sasuke looks at can be caught on fire, instantly when he summons Ameratsu. All of Killerbee's strength, speed, and stamina, are for naught against this jutsu.

From what we have seen, using facts, not assumptions and speculation, the only way Killerbee can ESCAPE, not even AVOID Ameratsu is by transforming into his final form. By doing this he wastes all of his chakra as his Biju noted, and this would leave him vulnerable to Sasuke's onslaught of flames as hot as the sun.

Killerbee is superior to Sasuke in many ways, but Ameratsu as we have seen, was enough to take Killerbee out of the fight. Sasuke wouldn't make the same mistakes he did in their first fight, he wouldn't try and capture him, he's used Ameratsu immediatly and kill him, he'd have to against this kind of opponent.

having read most of your arguments in the last couple of pages i agree that sasuke has a hax jutsu in the form of ametarasu and if he uses that as soon as the battle starts then killerbee is going to be in a lot of trouble

but at the same time there is also the fact that both of them having fought once know each other's main jutsu and killerbee has also acknowledged sasuke as being one of the strongest ninja he has ever fought so i think killerbee would have some sort of counter to sasuke's amaterasu

one more think i would like to ask is the complete transformation of hachibi to 8 tails is what saved him cause his main body was covered by chakra now if hachibi forms a chakra cover like he did after the initial fight and before transforming then he could protect himself against ametarasu

also apart from amaterasu sasuke seems inferior to killerbee so i guess this fight should tilt in killerbee's favour

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I still really don't understand why anyone would think Killerbee will be defeat with Ameterasu if they fight again. The first time Killerbee saw Amaterasu and had it use against him, he was able to escape it. Now that he knows about it and how it's use i don't understand why anyone will think he will defeat by it. Also, that's if Killerbee allow him to use Amaterasu. The first time they fought, Killerbee already "killed" Sasuke two times, without taking the fight all that serious if i may add, before Sasuke had a chance to use Amaterasu. And that was a Sasuke who had Taka to help him. So Sasuke will be well advise to use Amaterasu toward the begin of the fight if what to have any chance. In the worst case scenario, Killerbee can just use the Kawirimi/henge or what ever the fuck it was that he used the first time again if he were hit with Amaterasu.

But to think Killerbee is going to be defeat by a jutsu he have seen before and escape before, is quite insulting to him.

[ameya730]

I still really don't understand why anyone would think Killerbee will be defeat with Ameterasu if they fight again. The first time Killerbee saw Amaterasu and had it use against him, he was able to escape it. Now that he knows about it and how it's use i don't understand why anyone will think he will defeat by it. Also, that's if Killerbee allow him to use Amaterasu. The first time they fought, Killerbee already "killed" Sasuke two times, without taking the fight all that serious if i may add, before Sasuke had a chance to use Amaterasu. And that was a Sasuke who had Taka to help him. In the worst case scenario, Killerbee can just use the Kawirimi/henge or what ever the fuck it was that he used the first time again if he were hit with Amaterasu.

sasuke was deafeated the first time in such a bad ass embarrassing way was because he was his usual cocky self in this fight he would remember the scars he received at the hands of killerbee and he would realize the only way to deafeat him was essentially amaterasu cause that is the only jutsu that seemed to have some kind of effect on killerbee

even so i agree i dont see sasuke winning this fight unless he can use amaterasu first in th process make killerbee use up a major portion of his chakra and then (if he got it from itachi) use susasnoo cause that is the only other jutsu that a sharingan user possess that could worry killerbee

[Shaunlim]

1. How can he avoid it? Sasuke has the Sharigan and can see all of Killerbee's moves, if he can see him he can summon Ameratsu on him, that's all there is too it. It doesn't matter how fast you are, if the user of Ameratsu can see you, he can summon it on you.

2. This isn't an assumption, its a fact. Ameratsu is summoned wherever the user is looking. Sasuke has the Sharigan if you forget, even though Killerbee is faster than him, he's not faster than Sasuke's eyes, and will never get out of Sasuke's vision, therefore Sasuke would hit him with Ameratsu everytime,
Their have been one instances where Sasuke's Sharigan couldn't keep up with somethings movements, and those were Itachi's hand while they were in a genjutsu. Killerbee's entire body, I assure you, is not going to be faster than Itachi's hands.

3. Sasuke brought down the second strongest Biju to our knowledge with Ameratsu. I'm pretty sure he could destroy the frog wall with it as well seeing as how Sasuke's Ameratsu is no different from Itachi's in its effect. As for it following him things, I'd say it took more out of both of them to stop it rather than for Itachi to make it follow Sasuke, I think it can be safely assumed that Sasuke can manipulate the flames in any way he wants if he can both summon them and extinguish them. He simply hasn't had a reason to make them track a target yet.

1. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/016/ Sasuke didn't see where Killerbee went. Nuff said.

2. And I just showed you how Sasuke missed out Killerbee's movement. Not to mention that Amateratsu isn't as easy to use as you think. It's not just look and burn. There is the focusing part as well. And this is evident everytime Amateratsu is used. The user actually has to stare a while b4 the flames kicks in.

3. Let's not create stuff for Sasuke until we see him do those stuff. Him taking down Hachibi with Amateratsu or not doesn't have anything to do with whether the fact he can blow through walls with it. Amateratsu brought down Hachibi due to the nature of the jutsu. Not how good Sasuke used it. Period. Unless he starts showing to blow through frog walls and drag it along.

[Delbi]

1. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/016/ Sasuke didn't see where Killerbee went. Nuff said.

2. And I just showed you how Sasuke missed out Killerbee's movement. Not to mention that Amateratsu isn't as easy to use as you think. It's not just look and burn. There is the focusing part as well. And this is evident everytime Amateratsu is used. The user actually has to stare a while b4 the flames kicks in.

3. Let's not create stuff for Sasuke until we see him do those stuff. Him taking down Hachibi with Amateratsu or not doesn't have anything to do with whether the fact he can blow through walls with it. Amateratsu brought down Hachibi due to the nature of the jutsu. Not how good Sasuke used it. Period. Unless he starts showing to blow through frog walls and drag it along.

1. Sasuke didn't have his Sharigan activated, go look back at the pages. He only activated his Sharigan once Killerbee used his 3 tailed form.

2. Point is moot, Sasuke didn't have his Sharigan active. And Ameratsu shows to be pretty easy to use, its simply draining and dangerous to use. Sasuke opens his eye, the MS appears, and then the Ameratsu flames appear.

3. I don't see how he couldn't blow through walls, its not like his Ameratsu is any different than Itachi's. I'll give you that fact that we haven't seen him do some of things that Itachi did with Ameratsu, but I don't see why he couldn't.
[hr]


But to think Killerbee is going to be defeat by a jutsu he have seen before and escape before, is quite insulting to him.

Not really, look at what he had to do to escape it, as his Biju stated it took most of his chakra to do so. As far as we know, Killerbee can't escape the jutsu unless he transforms, and by doing that he wastes the majority of his chakra.

Saying that, this one jutsu alone can help Sasuke win the fight like it did last time. People are thinking Sasuke is going to get killed twice again after he already saw what Killerbee can do, lets give Sasuke some credit, I don't think he'd underestimate him twice.

This isn't a jutsu that has shown to be dodgeable when it's first summoned. Sasuke just has to look at Killerbee and he can set him on fire. I really don't know what Killerbee can do to stop that. His best bet would be to transform, escape his body like he did last time and attack Sasuke, that is if he has the strength to launch an effective counter assualt.

If that happens, then perhaps he could defeat Sasuke, but Sasuke isn't an idoit, either, he does have the Sharigan, so that counter attack used by Bee, with minimal chakra at that, might be ineffective.

[Shaunlim]

1. Sasuke didn't have his Sharigan activated, go look back at the pages. He only activated his Sharigan once Killerbee used his 3 tailed form.

2. Point is moot, Sasuke didn't have his Sharigan active. And Ameratsu shows to be pretty easy to use, its simply draining and dangerous to use. Sasuke opens his eye, the MS appears, and then the Ameratsu flames appear.

3. I don't see how he couldn't blow through walls, its not like his Ameratsu is any different than Itachi's. I'll give you that fact that we haven't seen him do some of things that Itachi did with Ameratsu, but I don't see why he couldn't.


1. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/013/ it was on. It might not be clear but I can assure it was on during that time.

2. Read back on all the times Amateratsu was use. There is a slight delay before the flames actually appear. And that is the focusing time I'm talking about. It might not be long but it is still there.

3. It's the skills of using the jutsu. That's all I'm saying. And Sasuke haven't shown anything in that department besides putting it out and summoning it.

[Sleepybones]

I have one thing to say, I don't think its fair to involve Kisame in this due the fact that NO ONE knows what he is fully capable of yet.

[Onomatopoeia]

One of the biggest claims I see in any matchup between Sasuke vs Killerbee is that if they ever fought again Sasuke would be prepared for his swordfighting style/be less cocky/not get owned/use more jutsus. The only other claim that I see thats greater is Killerbee would get owned by Amaretsu if they ever met again.

The Claims:

Claim A: Sasuke would be prepared should he run into Killerbee again and not get owned.

Claim B: Killerbee would not be prepared for Amaretsu should the two ever fight and would get owned by it.

See any problems/biased arguments?

[Delbi]

1. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/013/ it was on. It might not be clear but I can assure it was on during that time.

2. Read back on all the times Amateratsu was use. There is a slight delay before the flames actually appear. And that is the focusing time I'm talking about. It might not be long but it is still there.

3. It's the skills of using the jutsu. That's all I'm saying. And Sasuke haven't shown anything in that department besides putting it out and summoning it.

1. No, look here its clear it wasn't activated at that time and was activated afterwards. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/03/

2. Fair enough, buit Killerbee can't take advantage of that small time interval, its about 1 second.

3. I guess, but those skills are irrelevant for this scenario, all he has to do is summon it on Killerbee, he doesn't have to worry about chasing him with it.
[hr]

One of the biggest claims I see in any matchup between Sasuke vs Killerbee is that if they ever fought again Sasuke would be prepared for his swordfighting style/be less cocky/not get owned/use more jutsus. The only other claim that I see thats greater is Killerbee would get owned by Amaretsu if they ever met again.

The Claims:

Claim A: Sasuke would be prepared should he run into Killerbee again and not get owned.

Claim B: Killerbee would not be prepared for Amaretsu should the two ever fight and would get owned by it.

See any problems/biased arguments?

It's a lot of Sasuke fanboyism which is for sure, but how exactly would Killerbee deal with Ameratsu? He's shown no such skill that can help him avoid it, all he can do is escape it and that requires almost all of his chakra because he needs to transform.

Sasuke really can't deal with many of Killerbee's skills aside from staying away from him, and thus using Ameratsu at a distance.

[Shaunlim]

1. No, look here its clear it wasn't activated at that time and was activated afterwards. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/03/

2. Fair enough, buit Killerbee can't take advantage of that small time interval, its about 1 second.

3. I guess, but those skills are irrelevant for this scenario, all he has to do is summon it on Killerbee, he doesn't have to worry about chasing him with it.


1. He turned it off in between. But during that time it was on. You can check a clearer scan if you since the one in onemanga isn't all that clear.

2. Actually he can. I have just shown you how fast Killerbee can move. Sasuke isn't going to burn him as easy as you think.

3. He's going to need it if Hachibi doesn't stay still. So yes, he does need it.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Not really, look at what he had to do to escape it, as his Biju stated it took most of his chakra to do so. As far as we know, Killerbee can't escape the jutsu unless he transforms, and by doing that he wastes the majority of his chakra.

I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do a kawirimi/henge when he isn't transform. It not like it a bijuu jutsu, it's his jutsu from what i understand.


Saying that, this one jutsu alone can help Sasuke win the fight like it did last time. People are thinking Sasuke is going to get killed twice again after he already saw what Killerbee can do, lets give Sasuke some credit, I don't think he'd underestimate him twice.
But this one jutsu didn't help him win the fight the other time. That one jutsu allowed him to be fooled by an uncaring Killerbee. I'm giving Sasuke all the credits he deserve, it just that getting overwhelmed and killed twice while you have three other people helping you doesn't warrant much credits. Everything in the manga show that Sasuke will lose if he face Killerbee one on one. The two times he try to face Killerbee, one one one, in the other fight he was killed. Yeah, he wouldn't underestimate Killerbee this time but that wouldn't make up for the skills and strength Killerbee has over him. Also Sasuke only underestimate in the beginning of the fight. Furthermore, Killerbee will be taking the fight serious this time.


This isn't a jutsu that has shown to be dodgeable when it's first summoned. Sasuke just has to look at Killerbee and he can set him on fire. I really don't know what Killerbee can do to stop that. His best bet would be to transform, escape his body like he did last time and attack Sasuke, that is if he has the strength to launch an effective counter assualt.
But i will like to remind you that this Jutsu had never defeat anyone. It been used against 3 Ninjas, and each times the Ninja had escape it. One of the ninja that did so, in his first time seeing it, is none other than the ninja you expecting to now be defeat by it: Killerbee. I really don't understand why you think Killerbee wouldn't be able to do the Kawirimi/henge in Base Mode. It's his jutsu, not the bijuu's. He is just going to need a different medium beside the tail this time. He can use a tree branch like most Ninja do. And no i don't think the Kawarimi/henge he used is the same as the normal one. It a higher form of it.


If that happens, then perhaps he could defeat Sasuke, but Sasuke isn't an idoit, either, he does have the Sharigan, so that counter attack used by Bee, with minimal chakra at that, might be ineffective.
Yeah, Sasuke does have the sharingan. But it didn't prevent Killerbee, while not taking the fight that serious, from killing him twice the other time. And then make a fool out of him to end the fight.

[Delbi]

1. He turned it off in between. But during that time it was on. You can check a clearer scan if you since the one in onemanga isn't all that clear.

2. Actually he can. I have just shown you how fast Killerbee can move. Sasuke isn't going to burn him as easy as you think.

3. He's going to need it if Hachibi doesn't stay still. So yes, he does need it.

1. Give me a fucking break, it was off, he turned it on once Killerbee went tailed mode. He had it on then got his shit fucked up and nearly died, its clearly off when he attacks him a second time. If you find me a scan that shows it on during that time, I'd love to see it.

2. What don't you get that it doesn't matter how fast Bee is, Sasuke just has to look at him. Killerbee's reflexes haven't shown the ability to notice Sasuke eyes changing in a matter of a second then avoid Ameratsu. No ninja has those reflexes. Madara, who knows all about the Sharigan couldn't avoid getting hit by Ameratsu and he knows how to move through space time.

3. He doesn't need it, again, all he has to do is look at Killerbee and he's got him.

[Shaunlim]

1. Give me a fucking break, it was off, he only turned it on once Killerbee went tailed mode.

2. What don't you get that it doesn't matter how fast Bee is, Sasuke just has to look at him. Killerbee's reflexes haven't shown the ability to notice Sasuke eyes changing in a matter of a second then avoid Ameratsu. No ninja has those reflexes. Madara, who knows all about the Sharigan couldn't avoid getting hit by Ameratsu and he knows how to move through space time.

3. He doesn't need it, again, all he has to do is look at Killerbee and he's got him.

1. I can't help it if you don't want to believe it but it was on. Check a clearer scan like I said. Japflap's HQ scan would be a nice place to start.

2. So, we're assuming that Hachibi is going to stand around to let Sasuke look at him even though he already knows about Amateratsu ? Especially if Hachibi have shown to move faster than Sasuke can follow?

Madara was hit was hit partly due to the fact that he didn't realise that Itachi had implanted the Amateratsu and he simply doesn't need to.

3. This is pointless. If you really believe that so deeply, then so be it. I can't force you to change your perception of things.

[Delbi]

But i will like to remind you that this Jutsu had never defeat anyone. It been used against 3 Ninjas, and each times the Ninja had escape it. One of the ninja that did so, in his first time seeing it, is none other than the ninja you expecting to now be defeat by it: Killerbee. I really don't understand why you think Killerbee wouldn't be able to do the Kawirimi/henge in Base Mode. It's his jutsu, not the bijuu's. He is just going to need a different medium beside the tail this time. He can use a tree branch like most Ninja do. And no i don't think the Kawarimi/henge he used is the same as the normal one. It a higher form of it.

Killerbee replaced himself with part of his transformation, with his tenticle. His actual body was never hit by Ameratsu, the chakra that formed the transformation was. If his actual body gets hit, he can't replace himself with something seeing as how he'd still be on fire.

Sasuke Kawarimi was an S-Rank technique, he didn't replace his body, he actually shed his own skin and more or less created himself a new body, that's why he was able to escape it.



Yeah, Sasuke does have the sharingan. But it didn't prevent Killerbee, while not taking the fight that serious, from killing him twice the other time. And then make a fool out of him to end the fight.

My whole thing with Sasuke fighting him a second time is this. Sasuke isn't an idoit. He now knows what Killerbee is capable of. He wouldn't try a chidori sword on him, he wouldn't try Tsyuikiyomi on him, he would keep his distance from him.

What would Killerbee do? Nothing too different, none of Sasuke attacks but Ameratsu really hurt him so he really wouldn't need to change his stategy up much. He'd have to worry about Ameratsu and that alone, but he can't stop himself from getting hit with an attack that appeares on you instantly. He'd have to be in his tailed mode to escape it, and by going into his tailed mode he uses up a lot of chakra. I doubt he's going to be able to transfrom while the flames are on him.

I know how superior Killerbee is too Sasuke, that much is obvious. But Sasuke's Ameratsu gives him this fight. He's proved that it could defeat Killerbee before I don't see why he couldn't kill him with it this time.
[hr]

1. I can't help it if you don't want to believe it but it was on. Check a clearer scan like I said. Japflap's HQ scan would be a nice place to start.

2. So, we're assuming that Hachibi is going to stand around to let Sasuke look at him even though he already knows about Amateratsu ? Especially if Hachibi have shown to move faster than Sasuke can follow?

Madara was hit was hit partly due to the fact that he didn't realise that Itachi had implanted the Amateratsu and he simply doesn't need to.

3. This is pointless. If you really believe that so deeply, then so be it. I can't force you to change your perception of things.

1. I will believe what I want, show me Japflap's scan and then I'll believe it, until then I don't think he had the Sharigan on.

2. He can move, it's not like Sasuke can't see a moving target. If Killerbee is going to be fighting Sasuke I doubt he's going to hide from him, he's likely going to charge at him like he did, Sasuke could clearly see him all those times, which provide plenty of oppertunity to set his ass on fire.

3. Same to you.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Killerbee replaced himself with part of his transformation, with his tenticle. His actual body was never hit by Ameratsu, the chakra that formed the transformation was. If his actual body gets hit, he can't replace himself with something seeing as how he'd still be on fire.

Sasuke Kawarimi was an S-Rank technique, he didn't replace his body, he actually shed his own skin and more or less created himself a new body, that's why he was able to escape it.

I'm not too sure how the thing he did work. But i'm still incline to believe that he can do it in Base Mode because it his jutsu not a bijuu jutsu. He is just going to need a different thing to replace himself with.


My whole thing with Sasuke fighting him a second time is this. Sasuke isn't an idoit. He now knows what Killerbee is capable of. He wouldn't try a chidori sword on him, he wouldn't try Tsyuikiyomi on him, he would keep his distance from him.

What would Killerbee do? Nothing too different, none of Sasuke attacks but Ameratsu really hurt him so he really wouldn't need to change his stategy up much. He'd have to worry about Ameratsu and that alone, but he can't stop himself from getting hit with an attack that appeares on you instantly. He'd have to be in his tailed mode to escape it, and by going into his tailed mode he uses up a lot of chakra. I doubt he's going to be able to transfrom while the flames are on him.

I know how superior Killerbee is too Sasuke, that much is obvious. But Sasuke's Ameratsu gives him this fight. He's proved that it could defeat Killerbee before I don't see why he couldn't kill him with it this time.


Sasuke isn't an idoit, and neither is Killerbee. He saw what Amaterasu can do and how it's use. So, like i said before saying he will get defeat by Amaterasu is basically insulting him. You acting like Killerbee is a dummy that will fall for a trick he already saw and escaped before. He know to expect it and how it work. And i still believe he can do his Kiwarimi thing if he get hit by Amaterasu. Furthermore, that's if Sasuke use Amaterasu towards the beginning of the fight. If he try to hold he toward the ending, he will be dead before he know it.

[Onomatopoeia]

It's a lot of Sasuke fanboyism which is for sure, but how exactly would Killerbee deal with Ameratsu? He's shown no such skill that can help him avoid it, all he can do is escape it and that requires almost all of his chakra because he needs to transform.

Sasuke really can't deal with many of Killerbee's skills aside from staying away from him, and thus using Ameratsu at a distance.
Okay here goes but I'm quite confident that Base Killerbee is faster then Sasuke, by a fair margin. Assuming they start at a fair distance I don't see Sasuke being able to stay away from KB. I still don't see where the backup for Claim A comes from.

[Delbi]

I'm not too sure how the thing he did work. But i'm still incline to believe that he can do it in Base Mode because it his jutsu not a bijuu jutsu. He is just going to need a different thing to replace himself with.

Yea, but whats the point of replacing himself if he is already on fire? Replacement jutsu's work prior to a person getting hit with an attack. They replace their body prior to being hit with something. Killerbee simply wouldn't have the time do so even if a normal replacement would work because Ameratsu works instantly.



Sasuke isn't an idoit, and neither is Killerbee. He saw what Amaterasu can do and how it's use. So, like i said before saying he will get defeat by Amaterasu is basically insulting him. You acting like Killerbee is a dummy that will fall for a trick he already saw or escaped before. He know to expect it and how it work. And i still believe he can do his Kiwarimi thing if he get hit by Amaterasu. Furthermore, that's if Sasuke use Amaterasu towards the beginning of the fight. If he try to hold he toward the ending, he will be dead before he know it.

There's a lot of ifs and assumptions in this statement. Until Killerbee uses his replacement technique out of his transformation, he can't use it. That's like me saying Sasuke has Sussano because he has the other two eye techniques he and his brother share.

As for Sasuke using Ameratsu at the beginning of the fight, you said it yourself, Sasuke isn't an idoit, he's not the kind of person who reapeats past mistakes from what we have seen, he's constantly learning and growing, and its not like he hasn't ackwoledged inferiority to an opponent before, he did so against Orochimaru. Saying that, I think he's smart enough to realize that if he doesn't use Ameratsu fast, he might not live to see the end of the fight.

And while I don't think Killerbee is dumb, he sure as shit isn't the brighest person we have met. Trying to figure out how to beat Ameratsu is a difficult task, and I don't think he is capable of analyzing the jutsu from seeing it once and being able to create a strategy to counter it.
[hr]

Okay here goes but I'm quite confident that Base Killerbee is faster then Sasuke, by a fair margin. Assuming they start at a fair distance I don't see Sasuke being able to stay away from KB. I still don't see where the backup for Claim A comes from.

All Sasuke has to do is see him, that's it. Once he see's Killerbee he can use Ameratsu on him. All of KB's speed is useless seeing as how he can't avoid an attack that can be summoned anywhere the user is looking instantly.

[jdw]

Yea, but whats the point of replacing himself if he is already on fire? Replacement jutsu's work prior to a person getting hit with an attack. They replace their body prior to being hit with something. Killerbee simply wouldn't have the time do so even if a normal replacement would work because Ameratsu works instantly.



There's a lot of ifs and assumptions in this statement. Until Killerbee uses his replacement technique out of his transformation, he can't use it. That's like me saying Sasuke has Sussano because he has the other two eye techniques he and his brother share.

As for Sasuke using Ameratsu at the beginning of the fight, you said it yourself, Sasuke isn't an idoit, he's not the kind of person who reapeats past mistakes from what we have seen, he's constantly learning and growing, and its not like he hasn't ackwoledged inferiority to an opponent before, he did so against Orochimaru. Saying that, I think he's smart enough to realize that if he doesn't use Ameratsu fast, he might not live to see the end of the fight.

And while I don't think Killerbee is dumb, he sure as shit isn't the brighest person we have met. Trying to figure out how to beat Ameratsu is a difficult task, and I don't think he is capable of analyzing the jutsu from seeing it once and being able to create a strategy to counter it.
<hr noshade size="1">


All Sasuke has to do is see him, that's it. Once he see's Killerbee he can use Ameratsu on him. All of KB's speed is useless seeing as how he can't avoid an attack that can be summoned anywhere the user is looking instantly.

In one battle where he dominated, you determined that he isn't the brightest person? What did he do that wasn't bright? Was it treating Sasuke and his gang like little kids for writing rhymes while beating on them? He put each of them down like dogs. It reminded me of Kakashi reading tactics while screwing with young Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura. How bright does Bee have to be to anticipate Amaterasu now that he knows Sasuke can do it? You are talking like he didn't basically kill Sasuke twice already. How many times would he have to basically kill sasuke in fight to satisfy you? I am all for people thinking Sasuke is strong, etc, but acting like he did anything in the fight with Bee is irresponsible.

[Delbi]

In one battle where he dominated, you determined that he isn't the brightest person? What did he do that wasn't bright? Was it treating Sasuke and his gang like little kids for writing rhymes while beating on them? He put each of them down like dogs. It reminded me of Kakashi reading tactics while screwing with young Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura. How bright does Bee have to be to anticipate Amaterasu now that he knows Sasuke can do it? You are talking like he didn't basically kill Sasuke twice already. How many times would he have to basically kill sasuke in fight to satisfy you? I am all for people thinking Sasuke is strong, etc, but acting like he did anything in the fight with Bee is irresponsible.

How does him being superior to them make him intelligent? Just wondering. When Naruto goes Kyuubi he has no intelligence at all, but it doesn't matter because he is a beast.

If Killerbee were made to be really intelligent, he wouldn't of lost his cool and gone into his full transformation for no reason, he would of killed all of them their. Instead he left them alive, and thus has given them not only info about him, but possibly a second chance to go after him again, which is certainly going to happen.

As for how Sasuke acted, it wasn't irresponsible it was just arrogant.

Also, just because you can anticipate something doesn't mean you can deal with it. A pitcher can tell someone, "Hey, I'm throwing a curveball, try and hit it." The hitter could then go swing and miss.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Yea, but whats the point of replacing himself if he is already on fire? Replacement jutsu's work prior to a person getting hit with an attack. They replace their body prior to being hit with something. Killerbee simply wouldn't have the time do so even if a normal replacement would work because Ameratsu works instantly.

I'm not asking him to do a normal replacement, i'm talking about him using the type of replacement he used the first time. Only in base mode.


There's a lot of ifs and assumptions in this statement. Until Killerbee uses his replacement technique out of his transformation, he can't use it. That's like me saying Sasuke has Sussano because he has the other two eye techniques he and his brother share.
???
Of course there are a lot of ifs and assumptions, it not like the fight have happen. Oh wait, it kind of did and Sasuke got kill twice in it. Also by your logic, until Sasuke hit Killerbee with Amaterasu in base mode, he can't not do so.


As for Sasuke using Ameratsu at the beginning of the fight, you said it yourself, Sasuke isn't an idoit, he's not the kind of person who reapeats past mistakes from what we have seen, he's constantly learning and growing, and its not like he hasn't ackwoledged inferiority to an opponent before, he did so against Orochimaru. Saying that, I think he's smart enough to realize that if he doesn't use Ameratsu fast, he might not live to see the end of the fight.
And like i also said Killerbee isn't an idiot either. I think he is smart enough to avoid been defeated by Amaretarsu now when he wasn't defeated by it the first time.


And while I don't think Killerbee is dumb, he sure as shit isn't the brighest person we have met. Trying to figure out how to beat Ameratsu is a difficult task, and I don't think he is capable of analyzing the jutsu from seeing it once and being able to create a strategy to counter it.
Says who? He might not be the brightest person we ever seen but nothing in the manga suggest that he is dumb enough to fall for a jutsu he saw and escaped once before.


All Sasuke has to do is see him, that's it. Once he see's Killerbee he can use Ameratsu on him. All of KB's speed is useless seeing as how he can't avoid an attack that can be summoned anywhere the user is looking instantly.
Oh really? I think you should take a look at this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/04/
Ameratsu is not instantaneous. Sasuke was outrunning it for a while right there, and Hachibi have been shown to have a speed faster than Sasuke.

Amatarasu didn't defeat Killerbee the first time it was used against him, and i don't see why it will do so now that he aware of it. He wasn't even fazed by it. Furthermore, bijuu said that Killerbee didn't needed to call him, i doubt if Killerbee couldn't have hand Amatarasu in Base Mode he would have said that.
[hr]
I'm done with this. I will take what the manga have shown as final. And that is Sasuke getting overwhelmed and killed twice by Killerbee(who wasn't taking the fight all that serious) while he had three people to help him. The manga have shown us who is stronger. The manga showed us that the two times Sasuke try to take on Killerbee one on one it resulted in his "death". Until Sasuke get a new power up and get better, Killerbee will beat him if he try to face him one on one.

[jdw]

How does him being superior to them make him intelligent? Just wondering. When Naruto goes Kyuubi he has no intelligence at all, but it doesn't matter because he is a beast.

If Killerbee were made to be really intelligent, he wouldn't of lost his cool and gone into his full transformation for no reason, he would of killed all of them their. Instead he left them alive, and thus has given them not only info about him, but possibly a second chance to go after him again, which is certainly going to happen.

As for how Sasuke acted, it wasn't irresponsible it was just arrogant.

Also, just because you can anticipate something doesn't mean you can deal with it. A pitcher can tell someone, "Hey, I'm throwing a curveball, try and hit it." The hitter could then go swing and miss.

I am saying that he didn't do anything that was not intelligent. Also, understand that anticipating something doesn't mean you can deal with it, but Sasuke can't be the only nin in the Narutoverse with enough sense to try. Additionally, though he could have killed them, doing so would not have allowed him to escape as cleanly as he did. He had a different goal than Sasuke and gang.

At any rate, Bee has shown himself to be superior to Sasuke and crew, and he would likely beat him again in another fight, especially a one on one. Sasuke is already having eye problems due to MS (tragically cannot even pick up water without spilling it like an infant), so it isn't like his efforts at Amaterasu are going to go over cleanly guaranteed. Bee can just start the next fight in tailed mode. I think he has 6 tentacles left so that might give him 6 more chances to beat amaterasu and rip sasuke's heart out.

[Delbi]

I'm not asking him to do a normal replacement, i'm talking about him using the type of replacement he used the first time. Only in base mode.

But he can't, thats my point. He replaced himself with a tenticle, while in his baseform he has nothing to replace himself with.



Of course there are a lot of ifs and assumptions, it not like the fight have happen. Oh wait, it kind of did and Sasuke got kill twice in it. Also by your logic, until Sasuke hit Killerbee with Amaterasu in base mode, he can't not do so.
I don't understand what you're getting at here. He used Ameratsu on Killerbee when he transformed because he had no choice. Given what he's learned about Killerbee he'd know that he has no choice but to use that off the bat otherwise he'd lose the fight.



And like i also said Killerbee isn't an idiot either. I think he is smart enough to avoid been defeated by Amaretarsu now when he wasn't defeated by it the first time.

Never said he was an idoit, but he did get defeated by it, He had to retreat from the battle. Sasuke and comp. got their asses kicked, but they did win the fight, granted they didn't succeed in their mission.



Says who? He might not be the brightest person we ever seen but nothing in the manga suggest that he is dumb enough to fall for a jutsu he saw and escaped once before.

The jutsu is inescapable when used properly by summoning it on the target directly. I don't see how he is going to get around avoiding Ameratsu. He's seen the jutsu once, he know's nothing about it other than what it does and that it comes out when Sasuke's eyes change.



Oh really? I think you should take a look at this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/04/
Ameratsu is not instantaneous. Sasuke was outrunning it for a while right there, and Hachibi have been shown to have a speed faster than Sasuke.

It is instantaneous. Itachi opened his eye and it appeared. He used it defensivly first, and then used the flames that were already burning to chase Sasuke down. If he wanted to he could of summoned the Ameratsu right on Sasuke but he would of taken a Katon to the face and likely died as well.



Amatarasu didn't defeat Killerbee the first time it was used against him, and i don't see why it will do so now that he aware of it. He wasn't even fazed by it. Furthermore, bijuu said that Killerbee didn't needed to call him, i doubt if Killerbee couldn't have hand Amatarasu in Base Mode he would have said that.
It did defeat him, he retreated and what was left of Taka was left standing on the battle field. When you retreat from a fight you are losing.

As for not being fazed by it, did you not see him thrasing and burning while he was transformed? When he escaped he had used most of his chakra, I'd say it affected him significantly.

And KB still did call on his Biju, this shows that he isn't as smart as you think he is seeing as he put himself at risk when he didn't have to. And again if he didn't transform, he wouldn't of been able to escape Ameratsu.

Look, we have no evidence Killerbee can escape Ameratsu while not being transformed. He replaced himself with a tenticle, something he does not possess when he isn't transformed.

The jutsu can be summoned anywhere Sasuke looks, so if he see's Bee he can light him on fire.

[jdw]

It did defeat him, he retreated and what was left of Taka was left standing on the battle field. When you retreat from a fight you are losing.

This conversation has now crossed the border into the unreal. Thanks and have a good night.

[Delbi]

I am saying that he didn't do anything that was not intelligent. Also, understand that anticipating something doesn't mean you can deal with it, but Sasuke can't be the only nin in the Narutoverse with enough sense to try. Additionally, though he could have killed them, doing so would not have allowed him to escape as cleanly as he did. He had a different goal than Sasuke and gang.

At any rate, Bee has shown himself to be superior to Sasuke and crew, and he would likely beat him again in another fight, especially a one on one. Sasuke is already having eye problems due to MS (tragically cannot even pick up water without spilling it like an infant), so it isn't like his efforts at Amaterasu are going to go over cleanly guaranteed. Bee can just start the next fight in tailed mode. I think he has 6 tentacles left so that might give him 6 more chances to beat amaterasu and rip sasuke's heart out.

1. Ok, he transformed when he clearly did not have too, that's not intelligent, he wasted a lot of chakra doing so.

2. The only people that could of stopped him if he killed all them was the cloud nin. Seeing how sneaky he was, I don't see why he wouldn't of been able to escape them. Only difference would have been was that his brother would have been pissed at him instead of Akatasuki, and I think he could care less.

3. And doing so would make him slower, thus taking away the biggest advantage he has over Sasuke, and he would again waste a lot of chakra. Sasuke would nuke his ass with Ameratsu again, this time however make sure he burns every piece of him.
[hr]

This conversation has now crossed the border into the unreal. Thanks and have a good night.

He didn't win, I never said he didn't beat the hell out of them.

Itachi didn't win his fight with Sasuke, he died.

Sarturobi didn't win his fight with Orochimaru, he died as well, he simply stopped him and ended the fighting.

You don't win a fight unless you defeat your opponent or kill them, I've never heard of someone "winning" a fight by retreating from battle.

[Shaunlim]

1. I will believe what I want, show me Japflap's scan and then I'll believe it, until then I don't think he had the Sharigan on.

2. He can move, it's not like Sasuke can't see a moving target. If Killerbee is going to be fighting Sasuke I doubt he's going to hide from him, he's likely going to charge at him like he did, Sasuke could clearly see him all those times, which provide plenty of oppertunity to set his ass on fire.

3. Same to you.

1. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/ShaunlimS/ch412_UK_Page_13.png

2. Moving fast + attacking Sasuke at the same time = hard for Sasuke to concentrate on Hachibi thus Amateratsu won't come out.

[Reenie]

You don't win a fight unless you defeat your opponent or kill them, I've never heard of someone "winning" a fight by retreating from battle.

Killerbee outsmarted Team Taka and Sasuke at the end despite the use of Amaterasu, or perhaps because of it. He had the final laugh and in the battle of ballz it was his win. You're just blinding yourself when you use the word, 'retreating.' I wonder how you would look at the situation if you replaced that word with 'eluding his pursuers and giving them a good spanking in the process.'

KillerBee has defeated all of Sasuke's arsenal one after one, including Amaterasu, except for Sasuke's greatest trump card. The only jutsu Sasuke has fazed KillerBee with is his endless life plot no jutsu. That was the jutsu KillerBee was shaking his head in admiration at after their battle, saying Sasuke was so strong like that.

Look at it this way.
Sasuke's only chance to win is to use an already countered Amaterasu and hope plot no jutsu turns his way. I think it's obvious who has the advantage.

Besides, Amaterasu is a crippling jutsu not meant to incapacitate instantly, especially if the opponent is in motion. Every time someone has been hit with Amaterasu, he has been able to act through ninjutsu (kawarimi / whatever Madara did) and taijutsu. In other words, Sasuke has no way of preventing KillerBee from destroying him, even if Amaterasu lands, if KillerBee's only objective were to take Sasuke down.

[Spike Spiegal]

^Good post, though,It's pointless to argue this specific topic anymore, everything has been said and debated, but, if some people have there minds set on who the winner is, as you can tell, they will disregard all proof or evidence that doesn't adhere to there assumptions, and believe, despite being shown/proven otherwise by a majority of people who read the same manga.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

But he can't, thats my point. He replaced himself with a tenticle, while in his baseform he has nothing to replace himself with.


I don't understand what you're getting at here. He used Ameratsu on Killerbee when he transformed because he had no choice. Given what he's learned about Killerbee he'd know that he has no choice but to use that off the bat otherwise he'd lose the fight.


Never said he was an idoit, but he did get defeated by it, He had to retreat from the battle. Sasuke and comp. got their asses kicked, but they did win the fight, granted they didn't succeed in their mission.


The jutsu is inescapable when used properly by summoning it on the target directly. I don't see how he is going to get around avoiding Ameratsu. He's seen the jutsu once, he know's nothing about it other than what it does and that it comes out when Sasuke's eyes change.


It is instantaneous. Itachi opened his eye and it appeared. He used it defensivly first, and then used the flames that were already burning to chase Sasuke down. If he wanted to he could of summoned the Ameratsu right on Sasuke but he would of taken a Katon to the face and likely died as well.


It did defeat him, he retreated and what was left of Taka was left standing on the battle field. When you retreat from a fight you are losing.

As for not being fazed by it, did you not see him thrasing and burning while he was transformed? When he escaped he had used most of his chakra, I'd say it affected him significantly.

And KB still did call on his Biju, this shows that he isn't as smart as you think he is seeing as he put himself at risk when he didn't have to. And again if he didn't transform, he wouldn't of been able to escape Ameratsu.

Look, we have no evidence Killerbee can escape Ameratsu while not being transformed. He replaced himself with a tenticle, something he does not possess when he isn't transformed.

The jutsu can be summoned anywhere Sasuke looks, so if he see's Bee he can light him on fire.

I know i said that i'm done with this but i will like to remind you again of the history of this so call great jutsu that you think Killerbee, and just about everyone with the way you putting it, is going to be defeat with. It had been used against a Ninja three times. How many times did it defeat that Ninja in those three tries? ZERO TIMES. It has fail and been escape all three times. That alone show you that the assumption that Amaterasu is going to defeat Killerbee is fruitless. Now add to that, one of the Ninja that escaped it in one of the three times is non other than Killerbee himself. Killerbee escape it the first time he saw it. Now he knows about it and how it is use. It a baseless assumption/speculation to say he is going to be defeat by it now. Amaterasu has yet to defeat anyone, and i find it ridiculous that anyone would think that one of the Ninjas that escaped it once before is now going to be defeat by it.

And i find it funny that you basing this whole fight on just one Jutsu. One jutsu that has repeatedly failed. One jutsu that Killerbee is aware of and know how it is use. One jutsu that Killerbee had escape before.

And, no Sasuke didn't defeat Killerbee with Amaterasu in that fight. It was clearly shown in the manga that Killerbee fooled Sasuke with his own jutsu. Killerbee wasn't defeated. What Sasuke defeated was just a bloody tentacle.

Now i'm done.

[Delbi]

In all honesty, just because Ameratsu didn't kill anyone when it was used, doesn't mean it can't kill anyone.

Both times Itachi used it, he had no intention of killing anyone. The only time Sasuke used it intentionally, which mind you was his first time actually using his MS to use Ameratsu, he failed to kill Bee.

Apprently FRS sucks as well seeing as how its been absorbed, broken, or dodged nearly half a dozen times. I guess Naruto won't kill anything with it anymore seeing as how the last two he used were ineffective.

When Killerbee shows us that he can use the Kawarimi he used against Ameratsu while in his base form, then he'd kill Sasuke every time he fought him without a doubt. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown us that, so therefore by no means can he do it. I could just assume Sasuke has Sussano, in which case Killerbee can't even hurt him.

As for the outcome of the fight, just because Sasuke got his shit kicked in for the majority of the fight does not mean he lost. Naruto has fought opponents and has gotten his ass kicked a number of times through out the fight, yet he still wins the fight. Killerbee RETREATED. Call in tricking your opponent, I don't care, he left the fight and his enemies were still there. Saying that, did Sasuke succeed in his mission? No, his arrogant ass captured a tenticle, but he still one the fight, he caused his enemy to retreat and saved his comrades lives.

@Shaulim. He does indeed have his Sharigan activated, you were right. My question is this, do you honestly think Killerbee will be out of Sasuke's sight for the entire battle? Also, do you think Sasuke would allow himself to be attacked so easily by an oppoent superior to him? We have both agreed the time it takes for Ameratsu to work is a matter of 1 or 2 seconds, do you really think Sasuke can't see be for that short of a period of time with his Sharigan eyes?

@Spike, I'm basing my outcome of the fight on fact, and fact alone. Show me where I have used an opinion or disreguarded the "facts" of the manga to prove my point in this fight. Many of the claims people make about "facts" are merely opinions of what they are seeing in the manga. And as for the majority of people believing something or another, that doesn't mean much considering the majority of people can't see past their dislike or like of character to come to a rational decision.

[The_Drunk]

In all honesty, just because Ameratsu didn't kill anyone when it was used, doesn't mean it can't kill anyone.


I just want you to answer a couple of questions for me and thats it.

WHEN SASUKE FOUGHT KILLERBEE FOR THE FIRST TIME DID SASUKE GET STABBED WITH SWORDS TO THE POINT OF DEATH AND HAD TO BE REVIVED BY KARIN?

IF SASUKE WAS REVIVED BY KARIN DOESN'T THAT MEAN SASUKE WAS DEFEATED?

IF YOU THINK THAT SASUKE WASN'T DEFEATED... PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ALL OF US HOW THAT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE A DEFEAT AND GIVE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

[Raizen]

Yea, but whats the point of replacing himself if he is already on fire? Replacement jutsu's work prior to a person getting hit with an attack. They replace their body prior to being hit with something. Killerbee simply wouldn't have the time do so even if a normal replacement would work because Ameratsu works instantly.

There's a lot of ifs and assumptions in this statement. Until Killerbee uses his replacement technique out of his transformation, he can't use it. That's like me saying Sasuke has Sussano because he has the other two eye techniques he and his brother share.
Dude the one here with the most ifs and assumptions is u.A replacement technqiue can be used w/ or w/o his bijuu. In his bas emod ehe is much faster than sasuke, If sasuke can avoid it long enough to use a replacement then killerbee can do it too
Also, now that he knows about that technique, he knows what to expect. He can finsih the match b4 sasuke even has a chance to do it. in case u forgot, he TOYED with hawk by writing poems and singing


As for Sasuke using Ameratsu at the beginning of the fight, you said it yourself, Sasuke isn't an idoit, he's not the kind of person who reapeats past mistakes from what we have seen, he's constantly learning and growing, and its not like he hasn't ackwoledged inferiority to an opponent before, he did so against Orochimaru. Saying that, I think he's smart enough to realize that if he doesn't use Ameratsu fast, he might not live to see the end of the fight.

And while I don't think Killerbee is dumb, he sure as shit isn't the brighest person we have met. Trying to figure out how to beat Ameratsu is a difficult task, and I don't think he is capable of analyzing the jutsu from seeing it once and being able to create a strategy to counter it.
<hr noshade size="1">

All Sasuke has to do is see him, that's it. Once he see's Killerbee he can use Ameratsu on him. All of KB's speed is useless seeing as how he can't avoid an attack that can be summoned anywhere the user is looking instantly.
Yeah, sasuke is the only one that learns from past mistakes while other will just make it over and over again :notrust. Seriously this post is ridiculous. If sasuke can learn from his match so can killer. Even caught by surprised he managed to escape so him knowing about it b4 hand will make sure that he will never be hit by it.
I love how people just think that amaretsu is a sure kill when not a single character has been killed by it. Hilarious

[Delbi]

Dude the one here with the most ifs and assumptions is u.A replacement technqiue can be used w/ or w/o his bijuu. In his bas emod ehe is much faster than sasuke, If sasuke can avoid it long enough to use a replacement then killerbee can do it too
Also, now that he knows about that technique, he knows what to expect. He can finsih the match b4 sasuke even has a chance to do it. in case u forgot, he TOYED with hawk by writing poems and singing

Do you know how a replacement technique works? You replace yourself with an object prior to getting hit with an attack. If Killerbee replaces himself while he is on fire, he is still on fire. As for knowing about the tehcnique, it takes at most 2 seconds to activate and use. I highly doubt this fight would be over in a span of 2 seconds.



Yeah, sasuke is the only one that learns from past mistakes while other will just make it over and over again :notrust. Seriously this post is ridiculous. If sasuke can learn from his match so can killer. Even caught by surprised he managed to escape so him knowing about it b4 hand will make sure that he will never be hit by it.
I love how people just think that amaretsu is a sure kill when not a single character has been killed by it. Hilarious

But what is Killerbee going to learn? What is he possibly going to do stop Ameratsu? That's my point, it wouldn't matter if you had Shikamaru thinking about it, he lacks a technique to escape it in his base mode, and from what we have seen, the fire is unstoppable, it burns through anything and appears instantly wherever the user wants it too.

And I love how people fail to take things in perspective. Ameratsu has been used to kill someone, one time. If, people are too naive to realize how deadly the technique is, and can't comprehend the situations its been used in, they shouldn't be allowed to discuss it. Guess what, The Death God has failed to kill anyone but the person who uses it so far, I guess it isn't that great either huh?
[hr]

I just want you to answer a couple of questions for me and thats it.

WHEN SASUKE FOUGHT KILLERBEE FOR THE FIRST TIME DID SASUKE GET STABBED WITH SWORDS TO THE POINT OF DEATH AND HAD TO BE REVIVED BY KARIN?

IF SASUKE WAS REVIVED BY KARIN DOESN'T THAT MEAN SASUKE WAS DEFEATED?

IF YOU THINK THAT SASUKE WASN'T DEFEATED... PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ALL OF US HOW THAT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE A DEFEAT AND GIVE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

1. Sure did.
2. Did he die? No, he continued fighting, Hawk was fighting as a group, so no they weren't defeated.
3. He wasn't defeated, he was left standing at the fights end while Killerbee ran away. He failed his mission, he didn't capture Bee, but he sure as shit was not defeated.

Now you answer me this, as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu, what happened? I'll answer for you, Killerbee, who was in his most powerful form mind you, and was left utterly defensless and burning to death, his only option was too run away.

[Raizen]

Do you know how a replacement technique works? You replace yourself with an object prior to getting hit with an attack. If Killerbee replaces himself while he is on fire, he is still on fire. As for knowing about the tehcnique, it takes at most 2 seconds to activate and use. I highly doubt this fight would be over in a span of 2 seconds.
The name is self explanatory. And u can use anything to replace ur self with, a log or a branch,etc
Why the hell would he replace himself with himself? That is not how the technique works, u are obviously the one taht doesn't understand it.
As for amaretsu being used b4 hachibi, he will anticipate it


But what is Killerbee going to learn? What is he possibly going to do stop Ameratsu? That's my point, it wouldn't matter if you had Shikamaru thinking about it, he lacks a technique to escape it in his base mode, and from what we have seen, the fire is unstoppable, it burns through anything and appears instantly wherever the user wants it too.
He would learn taht he should prepare a replacement or he could use KB


And I love how people fail to take things in perspective. Ameratsu has been used to kill someone, one time. If, people are too naive to realize how deadly the technique is, and can't comprehend the situations its been used in, they shouldn't be allowed to discuss it. Guess what, The Death God has failed to kill anyone but the person who uses it so far, I guess it isn't that great either huh?
<hr noshade size="1">
When has amaretsu killed anyone??
DRS never killed anyone b/c
1- The 3rd was tired
2- Minato didn't want to kill the fox, he wanted it inside his son, not b/c he couldn't. Stop taking things out of context


1. Sure did.
2. Did he die? No, he continued fighting, Hawk was fighting as a group, so no they weren't defeated.
3. He wasn't defeated, he was left standing at the fights end while Killerbee ran away. He failed his mission, he didn't capture Bee, but he sure as shit was not defeated.

Now you answer me this, as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu, what happened? I'll answer for you, Killerbee, who was in his most powerful form mind you, and was left utterly defensless and burning to death, his only option was too run away.
He continued fighting bc he had someone heal him while his teammates stalled for him. Now how would he do that if he was fighting by himself.

Also note that killer was toying with them. If u can't see that go read it again

As for killer being in his most powerful form, it was his most powerful form offensively. That form had no speed and the defense was frail. It was said he didn't need to enter that, he just got carried away, why?? B/c he was having fun toying with sasgay. In his base form, no way sasuke would have been able to hit him

[Reenie]

In all honesty, just because Ameratsu didn't kill anyone when it was used, doesn't mean it can't kill anyone.

Let's put it this way so that you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Amaterasu CAN kill but it's not an instant kill like Susanoo or a Chidori attack to the vital organs, and in this respect Amaterasu shares an elemental affinity with all fire attacks shown thus far in the manga. Amaterasu isn't a piercing attack, it's a slow burning attack that starts from the outside layer of skin. That's why people of KillerBee's caliber who have been hit by Amaterasu usually start running around in pain squealing OMFG and whatnot instead of slumping motionless.

Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi as MS attacks are also double edged swords in that the user is extremely weak after these jutsu are used and has a 100% susceptibility to attack right afterwards.
1) Itachi retreats right after he uses Tsukiyomi on Kakashi, and again after he uses Tsukiyomi on Sasuke in Part 1.
2) Itachi gets spanked by Sasuke's Shuriken right after using Tsukiyomi in part 2 Sasuke vs Itachi.
3) Itachi gets spanked by Sasuke's fireball right after he uses Amaterasu in part 2 Sasuke vs Itachi.
4) Sasuke gets spanked by KillerBee right after he uses Tsukiyomi in Taka vs KillerBee.
The track record is 100% against Sharingan users being able to dodge any kind of serious attack after using MS.

Now you're saying Sasuke's trump card is Amaterasu, a double-edged weapon that doesn't instantly kill and also leaves him extremely vulnerable after use (Tsukiyomi is better in this respect because it immobilizes the opponent). Let's recreate the scenario of 8-Tails Bijuu form vs Sasuke with his MS prepared. 8-Tails rushes Sasuke, just like in the manga, and Sasuke hits him directly with Amaterasu - I'll give you that much since you seem to want it so bad. Now KillerBee was taken by surprise the first time by this attack that magically appeared out of nowhere (hax, I know), and started asking himself how he could douse the flames. But now that he knows it can't be put out simply by submerging himself in water, or by any normal means at his disposal, what if KillerBee simply ignores this tickling sensation, continues his attack without pause, and steps on Sasuke with all his hundred tons, effectively making him a pancake? Or he could swat Sasuke a couple thousand feet in the air if that suits him better (preferably with the part of him that's on fire). Then a few seconds later, KillerBee escapes Amaterasu once again with kawarimi, sacrificing a few body parts of his bijuu by self-dismemberment if necessary (they regenerate back anyways), and then KillerBee continues on with his adventures rapping to the cheers of millions of Sasuke haters. GG no RE.

That's the problem with relying on Amaterasu to win your fight.

[Delbi]

Let's put it this way so that you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Amaterasu CAN kill but it's not an instant kill like Susanoo or a Chidori attack to the vital organs, and in this respect Amaterasu shares an elemental affinity with all fire attacks shown thus far in the manga. Amaterasu isn't a piercing attack, it's a slow burning attack that starts from the outside layer of skin. That's why people of KillerBee's caliber who have been hit by Amaterasu usually start running around in pain squealing OMFG and whatnot instead of slumping motionless.

Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi as MS attacks are also double edged swords in that the user is extremely weak after these jutsu are used and has a 100% susceptibility to attack right afterwards.
1) Itachi retreats right after he uses Tsukiyomi on Kakashi, and again after he uses Tsukiyomi on Sasuke in Part 1.
2) Itachi gets spanked by Sasuke's Shuriken after using Tsukiyomi in part 2 Sasuke vs Itachi.
3) Itachi gets spanked by Sasuke's fireball after he uses Amaterasu in part 2 Sasuke vs Itachi.
4) Sasuke gets spanked by KillerBee right after he uses Tsukiyomi in Taka vs KillerBee.
The track record is 100% against Sharingan users being able to dodge any kind of serious attack after using MS.

Now you're saying Sasuke's trump card is Amaterasu, a double-edged weapon that doesn't instantly kill and also leaves him extremely vulnerable after use (Tsukiyomi is better in this respect because it immobilizes the opponent). Let's recreate the scenario of 8-Tails Bijuu form vs Sasuke with his MS prepared. 8-Tails rushes Sasuke, just like in the manga, and Sasuke hits him directly with Amaterasu - I'll give you that much since you seem to want it so bad. Now KillerBee was taken by surprise the first time by this attack that magically appeared out of nowhere (hax, I know), and started asking himself how he could douse the flames. But now that he knows it can't be put out simply by submerging himself in water, or by any normal means at his disposal, what if KillerBee simply ignores this tickling sensation, continues his attack without pause, and steps on Sasuke with all his hundred tons, effectively making him a pancake? Or he could swat Sasuke a couple thousand feet in the air if that suits him better (preferably with the part of him that's on fire). Then a few seconds later, KillerBee escapes Amaterasu once again with kawarimi, sacrificing a few body parts of his bijuu by self-dismemberment if necessary (they regenerate back anyways), and then KillerBee continues on with his adventures rapping to the cheers of millions of Sasuke haters. GG no RE.

That's the problem with relying on Amaterasu to win your fight.

All of your instances when you are talking about Itachi vs. Sasuke are moot considering Itachi had no intention of coming out of the fight alive, and he was sick as a dog throughout the entire fight. Zetsu even comments that Itachi would of never got so banged up if he was healthy.

As for your hypothetical situation. If that happens, and Killerbee ignores the pain, its not like Sasuke is made immobile by the jutsu, he can still move. Shit he even used a chidori spear after he used it for the first time which I'd say takes more concentration and willpower if he really is that messed up from Ameratasu, rather than too just run away from a massive, and slow Biju.

And when Killerbee uses his Kawarimi, he's back to his orginal form, and is now weak, his Biju states as much. So let's see, Sasuke has used 1 jutsu in Ameratsu, which let' say, and I'm being generious here, used half his chakra. He has plenty left to go after Killerbee and kill him, who mind you, is now weak from transforming.
[hr]

The name is self explanatory. And u can use anything to replace ur self with, a log or a branch,etc
Why the hell would he replace himself with himself? That is not how the technique works, u are obviously the one taht doesn't understand it.
As for amaretsu being used b4 hachibi, he will anticipate it

If Killerbee uses a Kawarimi as he's on fire, it doesn't take away from the fact that he's still on fire. He'd have to anticpate an attack, which takes about 1 second at most to use, as soon as he saw Sasuke's eyes change.



He would learn taht he should prepare a replacement or he could use KB

He's never used KB before so its BS to think he can, and if he prepared a replacement, a replacement can't fight and Sasuke would likely be able to tell its a replacement with his Sharigan, unlike a Kage Bushin which is an exact replica.



When has amaretsu killed anyone??
DRS never killed anyone b/c
1- The 3rd was tired
2- Minato didn't want to kill the fox, he wanted it inside his son, not b/c he couldn't. Stop taking things out of context

The first two times Ameratsu was used it wasn't mean to kill anyone. The second time it was used was in desperation on a giant Biju with the intention of saving people, not neccessarily killing the Biju. Not to mention Sasuke put the flames out and thought he captured Bee.

I'm not taking things out of context, I'm simply using your logic.



He continued fighting bc he had someone heal him while his teammates stalled for him. Now how would he do that if he was fighting by himself.

Do you think Sasuke would be dumb enough to try the same thing he did last time, and thus get himself killed?



Also note that killer was toying with them. If u can't see that go read it again

I understand that, at the same time, they weren't attacking serious and weren't trying to kill him until Sasuke got fucked up. Also, Sasuke didn't use Ameratsu until the end of the fight, I'm saying he'd have to use it right off the bat to win.



As for killer being in his most powerful form, it was his most powerful form offensively. That form had no speed and the defense was frail. It was said he didn't need to enter that, he just got carried away, why?? B/c he was having fun toying with sasgay. In his base form, no way sasuke would have been able to hit him
Him having fun, not something you want to do while your fighting someone like Sasuke, even if you are superior to them. Him geting carried away shows he isn't in great control of his emotions, something that is never beneficial for a ninja, and it also showed a lack of intelligence on his part seeing as how it ended up hurting him.

[Reenie]

All of your instances when you are talking about Itachi vs. Sasuke are moot considering Itachi had no intention of coming out of the fight alive, and he was sick as a dog throughout the entire fight. Zetsu even comments that Itachi would of never got so banged up if he was healthy.

As for your hypothetical situation. If that happens, and Killerbee ignores the pain, its not like Sasuke is made immobile by the jutsu, he can still move. Shit he even used a chidori spear after he used it for the first time which I'd say takes more concentration and willpower if he really is that messed up from Ameratasu, rather than too just run away from a massive, and slow Biju.


1) No the instances in which I talk about Itachi vs Sasuke are the OPPOSITE of moot because at the point Itachi used the MS jutsus, he had not extracted Orochimaru from Sasuke, which was his pressing objective in the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. You make it sound like Itachi's only reason of fighting Sasuke was to commit suicide. Thus because Itachi didn't provoke Orochimaru to come out yet, he had no reason to deliberately take damage and throw the fight at that point. In fact, he should have been pressing Sasuke even harder to burn up all his chakra, instead of taking blows. You just made your own post MOOT. The reason Zetsu mentioned Itachi wasn't himself was because of Itachi's sickness, something I will return to in point #4
2) Sasuke is not made immobile after MS; his movements are greatly slowed however, and I find it impossible to believe KillerBee, who was trumping Sasuke in the speed department anyways, could miss a greatly slowed Sasuke. So Sasuke struggled to use a Chidori spear (a lesser form of Chidori according to databook, doesn't that say something already?), that's ninjutsu, not tai, and it wouldn't do anything to slow KillerBee.
3) Since when was Killerbee in Bijuu form said to be slow? That's just the excuse Killerbee fans make to justify his being hit by Amaterasu. Actually their excuse is that Killerbee in his Bijuu form is a large target, you just made up the slow part. Several of the lower-tailed bijuu have been shown to be quite nimble, for instance the one that was able to keep up with Hidan/Kakuzu's movements
4) Return to the first point. Using MS drastically slows the user's movements, dulls his perceptions, and exhausts him. It's been STATED ALMOST WORD FOR WORD by several people, including Sasuke himself and Kakashi while fighting Itachi's clone round 2 if I recall correctly. It does not matter whether Itachi was sick or not during his fight with Sasuke, or whether his ability was originally greater. What matters is that Sasuke managed to land blows only after Itachi used MS at the time, which means that regardless of Itachi's original ability, MS incapacitated him even further. In fact, his sickness is so irrelevant that I don't even know why you brought it up.

[Delbi]

1) No the instances in which I talk about Itachi vs Sasuke are the OPPOSITE of moot because at the point Itachi used the MS jutsus, he had not extracted Orochimaru from Sasuke, which was his pressing objective in the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. You make it sound like Itachi's only reason of fighting Sasuke was to commit suicide. Thus because Itachi didn't provoke Orochimaru to come out yet, he had no reason to deliberately take damage at that point and throw the fight at that point. In fact, he should have been pressing Sasuke even harder to burn up all his chakra, instead of taking blows. You just made your own post MOOT.
2) Sasuke is not made immobile after MS; his movements are greatly slowed however, and I find it impossible to believe KillerBee, who was trumping Sasuke in the speed department anyways, could miss a greatly slowed Sasuke. So he struggled to use a Chidori spear (a lesser form of Chidori according to databook, doesn't that say something already?), that's ninjutsu, not tai, and it wouldn't do anything to slow KillerBee.
3) Since when was Killerbee in Bijuu form said to be slow? That's just the excuse Killerbee fans make to justify his being hit by Amaterasu.
4) Return to the first point. Using MS slows the user's movements, dulls his perceptions, and exhausts him.


1) Itachi was sick as hell, he had no reason to take damage as you said, but it was his sickness that made him take damage. He wanted to die, but he didn't want to Kill Sasuke. If he wanted to kill Sasuke he could of did it, he is far superior to him.
2) and 3) No, its not an excuse, its a fact. All summons or Biju that we have seen of that size have never exhibited great speed. The only summon to show good speed was Manda, and that pales in comparison to someone like Sasuke, who even suffering from the after effects of Ameratsu would be faster.
4) It does not exaust him, excess use exausts him much like Kakashi and Itachi have done. If Sasuke used it once, he'd be fine for the most part, just a bit shook up, like in all other instances of MS uses, and none of those instances led to a character dying.

[The_Drunk]

1. Sure did.
2. Did he die? No, he continued fighting, Hawk was fighting as a group, so no they weren't defeated.
3. He wasn't defeated, he was left standing at the fights end while Killerbee ran away. He failed his mission, he didn't capture Bee, but he sure as shit was not defeated.

Now you answer me this, as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu, what happened? I'll answer for you, Killerbee, who was in his most powerful form mind you, and was left utterly defensless and burning to death, his only option was too run away.

Thats what you fail to understand... Killerbee and Sasuke already ran the Gautlet. Sasuke told his team to stand back... meaning he wanted to go at it one on one. He got his ass handed to him and was saved by his TEAMMATE. If he failed to use Ameratsu in the beginning it was nobody's fault except his own. Everyone in this thread has pointed this out and understands that during that fight Sasuke got his ass whopped. Killerbee got what he wanted and that was to start a new life. In other words... to him he was putting on a show. That means if he had wanted to continue the fight.. he still had plenty to offer... If I remember correctly he didn't even break a sweat. A four man team was torn to shreds... Sasuke was saved 3 times during that fight. THREE TIMES. HOW MANY TIMES DID KILLER BEE HAD TO BE SAVED... NONE. Dude... what the hell is wrong with you... your the only one in the thread who doesn't see this. Now as your responses to my questions.
1. sure did... (I TAKE THAT AS A YES)
2. did he? This topic is suppose to be one on one. NO TEAM BACKING YOU UP. Remember that. In other words if his team was not around he would have died. That's ONE ON ONE.
3.He wasn't defeated... If it was a one on one fight... with no team mates he would have died first with the swords... second with horns... and third with the super blast.

[ninjabot]

The reason Amaterasu can be used as a gamebreaker in this debate is because despite it's setbacks there's literally no way to survive the attack without some sort of massively enfeebling drawback being inflicted upon you. Proof?

1: Sasuke was hit with Amaterasu. He escaped the jutsu with Kawarimi. Drawback? It took a large amount of chakra to use that Kawarimi. He survived, but was left with only enough chakra for the Gouryuuka.

2: Hachibi was hit with Amaterasu. He was injured to the point where continuing the fight wasn't possible, and he lost a large amount of chakra (and he's a jinchuuriki, it's not like it's easy for him to run out of chakra) aswell as multiple tails.

He survived, in a condition where winning the fight was no longer possible though, because of his chakra being nearly depleted and the fact that he chose to hide from opponents he previously was toying with.

3: Madara is the exception considering he is an Uchiha who could turn Amaterasu off if he felt like it probably (though it hasn't been proven that one Uchiha could turn the others Amaterasu off with that power).

If Sasuke is left in a state of exhaustion and short-sightedness from using the jutsu, but his opponent is hit, then the drawbacks don't matter because the user will waste chakra to escape, or they'll simply burn away.

Also, it IS assumption that Hachibi will automatically be hit with Amaterasu, but it's ALSO assumption that he will show us a completely different fighting style that would avoid having that happen to him as we've only seen him fight once. Our assumption is based on everything the character has shown thus far in the manga. And he's shown he sets himself up to eat Amaterasu very easily, whether it's by running directly at his opponent, or turning into a giant and trying to squish them.

He HAS shown us his main mode of attack is "run straight at the opponent with a predictable direct attack". He HAS shown us that he only has one long range option (kaijuu chakra beam). He HAS shown us that his fastest attack can be deflected by Sasuke, and he HAS shown us that he can be completely immobilized by Sasuke's Genjutsu if only for a moment.

Your (referring to Hachibi supporters) assumption is based on common sense: that Hachibi would have learned his lesson and wouldn't "get carried away" this time. But learning your lesson and haveing the tools to put the lesson to use are two different things. Is he gonna develop an anti-Amaterasu jutsu out of thin air? Has he learned to attack with his chakra shroud without being predictable? Is his chakra shroud strong enough to allow him to survive Amaterasu if not?

So which prevails? Common sense or canon proof? I tell you, I expected more from the Sasuke vs. Jiraiya fight than this one.

[TheChosenOne]

When has amaretsu killed anyone??
DRS never killed anyone b/c
1- The 3rd was tired
2- Minato didn't want to kill the fox, he wanted it inside his son, not b/c he couldn't. Stop taking things out of context

This is a flawed argument, you state that DRS (? is this Shiki Fuujin) hasn't killed anyone because so and so; that breaks your argument completely since you're countering with the same logic that D45 used (Amaretsu hasn't killed anyone because so and so). Just cuz Amaretsu hasn't killed anyone so far doesn't change the fact that it can, which is applicable to every life threatning jutsu (that hasn't killed anyone yet). Minato could have killed the Kyuubi with Shiki Fuujin if he wanted to, why can't Itachi kill Sasuke with Amaretsu if he wanted to, flawed argument. :blink

Kamui hasn't shown that it can kill someone but I doubt someone could (Hidan ?) still be alive if Kakashi sents their head to another dimension. Deidara's big bang hasn't killed anyone, does that mean it's incapable of doing so, Kirin hasn't killed anyone either, does that mean it can't ? :confused

[Shaunlim]

@Shaulim. He does indeed have his Sharigan activated, you were right. My question is this, do you honestly think Killerbee will be out of Sasuke's sight for the entire battle? Also, do you think Sasuke would allow himself to be attacked so easily by an oppoent superior to him? We have both agreed the time it takes for Ameratsu to work is a matter of 1 or 2 seconds, do you really think Sasuke can't see be for that short of a period of time with his Sharigan eyes?


I already have my answer to how to counter Amateratsu on Hachibi's part. As you can see here, Killerbee is already capable of moving at such a speed(regardless of ST or not since he did it so fast) to the point that Sasuke can't even see him with his SHG.

You say that a normal Kawamiri isn't capable of dodging Amateratsu. I agree and give that to you. But when Killerbee moves that fast which makes capable of outrunning Amateratsu like what Sasuke did, he can use a Kawamiri before the flames touches him. So him = saved from Amateratsu, Sasuke = at a huge disadvantage from the drawbacks(we have seen him become sluggish).

Frankly speaking, Sasuke would have a better chance of winning this by fighting normally like what he did against Itachi than to spam Amateratsu.

[En Yang Ji]

The reason why Sasuke lost sight of Hachibee is because he had his back turn to him. Sasuke was busy carrying suigetsu out of the area.

Look at this: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/015/

@Shaunlim: I don't think Hachibee would be able to use a regular kawarimi to dodge Amaterasu in that scenario. If that's possible, why didn't Sasuke do that, when Itachi used Amaterasu against him instead of wasting a large amount of chakra to use Oro's kawarimi?

[Delbi]

I already have my answer to how to counter Amateratsu on Hachibi's part. As you can see here, Killerbee is already capable of moving at such a speed(regardless of ST or not since he did it so fast) to the point that Sasuke can't even see him with his SHG.

You say that a normal Kawamiri isn't capable of dodging Amateratsu. I agree and give that to you. But when Killerbee moves that fast which makes capable of outrunning Amateratsu like what Sasuke did, he can use a Kawamiri before the flames touches him. So him = saved from Amateratsu, Sasuke = at a huge disadvantage from the drawbacks(we have seen him become sluggish).

Frankly speaking, Sasuke would have a better chance of winning this by fighting normally like what he did against Itachi than to spam Amateratsu.

Well, if Sasuke can use genjutsu effectively against Killerbee w/o Bee knowing, I'd say Bee would be in trouble, but Sasuke's only genjutsu is the Sharigan genjutsu which would require eye contact, so it's unlikely he'd use that.

Sasuke's lightning jutsu aren't usesless, but his chidori sword pretty much is against Killerbee because he can eletricy his own jutsu and swords. However, Killerbee's unique sword style could be his downfall. He's spinning in mid air, and basically leaving himself defensless, if he did this, he's setting himself up to get Ameratsu'd or perhaps Sasuke could shoot a chidori spear through him, maybe even a powerful Katon.

Saying all that, Killerbee has shown to be tough as shit, Sasuke kicked him in the throat and he didn't seem phased, but we don't really know how resistant he would be against all of Sasuke's normal ninjutsu.

Now, once Killerbee transforms into his 3 tailed state, Sasuke is fucked more or less. Killerbee now possess the spead neccessary to out manuvere Sasuke to the point he would be able to overwhelm him. Sasuke's best bet to put as much distance between him and Bee as possible.

If Killerbee transforms again, he puts him self at a disadvantage because he loses his greatest advantage over Sasuke, his speed. Summons and Biju of his side have been shown to be rather slow, and he is very large, so I'm assuming he isn't going to be zipping around the battlefield.

At his large size, Killerbee is very vulnerable to Ameratsu, and would basically fall into the same situation as last time. So let's assume Killerbee won't be using this jutsu unless he really has too, which isn't likely.

Here's a hypothetical situation I just thought of.
-Sasuke uses Ameratsu on Killerbee and lights the battlefield ablaze. For arguments sake, he doesn't kill Bee with it, and Killerbee attacks Sasuke.
-Killerbee does his jump and spin thing to try and kill Sasuke again, Sasuke fires a katon that misses, and then uses Chidori Nagashi to electrify his own body.
-Killerbee lands on Sasuke and his swords, which have shown to be able to break, and so they somehow break against the Chidori Nagashi. (Note, Nagashi is qutie destructive, it was capable of breaking apart Yamato wood jutsu, and Sasuke could also electify his sword to perhaps break through a blade or two.)
-Killerbee is now paralyzed due to running straight into Sasuke's Chidori Nagashi, but Sasuke is probably stabbed once or twice with the swords, hopefully he protected his vitals.
-Sasuke now has three options.
1) Ameratsu him at point blank range and throw him off him. If Bee's face is on fire Sasuke should be able to throw him off him, and Killerbee would likely die.
2) All that heat from Ameratsu and Sasuke's Katon, guess what, just set up Kirin. Yea, so Sasuke brings down Kirin directly on top of both Bee and himself. Now, Sasuke can electrify his own body, and Bee is on top of him, so hopefully he would live through the giant Kirin strike.
3) Sasuke managed to catch Killerbee in an illusion when Killerbee was on top of him, or while he was looking to into Sasuke's eyes. Killerbee knows Sasuke has Tsyukiyomi, but he doesn't know Sasuke can cast regular Sharigan genjutsu, if he doesn't know he's in one, he's not going to use his Biju to break it. Sasuke could cast an illusion of himself dying, and could thus be free to Kill bee in any traditional way.

Now I know this situation is somewhat out there, but after seeing what Killerbee's fighting style and tempermant is, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled that kind of move against Sasuke. Saying that, its very unlikely it would happen, but it could happen.

I still think Sasuke can catch Bee with Ameratsu any time he pleases though, but that has already been debated.

[Shaunlim]

The reason why Sasuke lost sight of Hachibee is because he had his back turn to him. Sasuke was busy carrying suigetsu out of the area.

Look at this: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/015/

@Shaunlim: I don't think Hachibee would be able to use a regular kawarimi to dodge Amaterasu in that scenario. If that's possible, why didn't Sasuke do that, when Itachi used Amaterasu against him instead of wasting a large amount of chakra to use Oro's kawarimi?

1. He was facing Hachibi at that point so I don't really see the point here. You can see his head looking backwards.

2. I have already explained this before. He did what he did with Oro's kawamiri simply because he wanted to trick Itachi. You know with his Katon and Kirin ?
[hr]

Well, if Sasuke can use genjutsu effectively against Killerbee w/o Bee knowing, I'd say Bee would be in trouble, but Sasuke's only genjutsu is the Sharigan genjutsu which would require eye contact, so it's unlikely he'd use that.

Sasuke's lightning jutsu aren't usesless, but his chidori sword pretty much is against Killerbee because he can eletricy his own jutsu and swords. However, Killerbee's unique sword style could be his downfall. He's spinning in mid air, and basically leaving himself defensless, if he did this, he's setting himself up to get Ameratsu'd or perhaps Sasuke could shoot a chidori spear through him, maybe even a powerful Katon.

Saying all that, Killerbee has shown to be tough as shit, Sasuke kicked him in the throat and he didn't seem phased, but we don't really know how resistant he would be against all of Sasuke's normal ninjutsu.

Now, once Killerbee transforms into his 3 tailed state, Sasuke is fucked more or less. Killerbee now possess the spead neccessary to out manuvere Sasuke to the point he would be able to overwhelm him. Sasuke's best bet to put as much distance between him and Bee as possible.

If Killerbee transforms again, he puts him self at a disadvantage because he loses his greatest advantage over Sasuke, his speed. Summons and Biju of his side have been shown to be rather slow, and he is very large, so I'm assuming he isn't going to be zipping around the battlefield.

At his large size, Killerbee is very vulnerable to Ameratsu, and would basically fall into the same situation as last time. So let's assume Killerbee won't be using this jutsu unless he really has too, which isn't likely.

Here's a hypothetical situation I just thought of.
-Sasuke uses Ameratsu on Killerbee and lights the battlefield ablaze. For arguments sake, he doesn't kill Bee with it, and Killerbee attacks Sasuke.
-Killerbee does his jump and spin thing to try and kill Sasuke again, Sasuke fires a katon that misses, and then uses Chidori Nagashi to electrify his own body.
-Killerbee lands on Sasuke and his swords, which have shown to be able to break, and so they somehow break against the Chidori Nagashi. (Note, Nagashi is qutie destructive, it was capable of breaking apart Yamato wood jutsu, and Sasuke could also electify his sword to perhaps break through a blade or two.)
-Killerbee is now paralyzed due to running straight into Sasuke's Chidori Nagashi, but Sasuke is probably stabbed once or twice with the swords, hopefully he protected his vitals.
-Sasuke now has three options.
1) Ameratsu him at point blank range and throw him off him. If Bee's face is on fire Sasuke should be able to throw him off him, and Killerbee would likely die.
2) All that heat from Ameratsu and Sasuke's Katon, guess what, just set up Kirin. Yea, so Sasuke brings down Kirin directly on top of both Bee and himself. Now, Sasuke can electrify his own body, and Bee is on top of him, so hopefully he would live through the giant Kirin strike.
3) Sasuke managed to catch Killerbee in an illusion when Killerbee was on top of him, or while he was looking to into Sasuke's eyes. Killerbee knows Sasuke has Tsyukiyomi, but he doesn't know Sasuke can cast regular Sharigan genjutsu, if he doesn't know he's in one, he's not going to use his Biju to break it. Sasuke could cast an illusion of himself dying, and could thus be free to Kill bee in any traditional way.

Now I know this situation is somewhat out there, but after seeing what Killerbee's fighting style and tempermant is, I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled that kind of move against Sasuke. Saying that, its very unlikely it would happen, but it could happen.

I still think Sasuke can catch Bee with Ameratsu any time he pleases though, but that has already been debated.

I don't really see what's the point with the made-up situation. As it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I can make up one as well with Sasuke not being able to use Amateratsu but it still wouldn't be any good since it's just an assumption of how things will go on.

[En Yang Ji]

1. He was facing Hachibi at that point so I don't really see the point here. You can see his head looking backwards.

2. I have already explained this before. He did what he did with Oro's kawamiri simply because he wanted to trick Itachi. You know with his Katon and Kirin ?
<hr noshade size="1">


1. Sasuke may have been looking back, but in that position he couldn't track Hachibee. Sasuke was in the air and was intent on carrying Suigetsu out of the area. He would have to turn his body around if he wanted to follow Hachibee with his eyes.

2. You got a point. :darn. I'm still not sure if Amaterasu can be dodged with a regular kawamiri, but I can't prove you wrong.

[Shaunlim]

1. Sasuke may have been looking back, but in that position he couldn't track Hachibee. Sasuke was in the air and was intent on carrying Suigetsu out of the area. He would have to turn his body around if he wanted to follow Hachibee with his eyes.


He could still see where Hachibi have went to. As long as he sees him, he should be able to know at least what direction Hachibi moved too which doesn't seems to be the case.

[Delbi]

I don't really see what's the point with the made-up situation. As it doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I can make up one as well with Sasuke not being able to use Amateratsu but it still wouldn't be any good since it's just an assumption of how things will go on.

It was a hypothetical situation using things that each fighter has done to make up the scenerio, it's believeable I think.

Killerbee has nothing that can actually stop Sasuke from activating Ameratsu unless he can kill him literally two seconds into the fight.

[En Yang Ji]

He could still see where Hachibi have went to. As long as he sees him, he should be able to know at least what direction Hachibi moved too which doesn't seems to be the case.

At best Sasuke would only be able to see Hachibee out of the corner of his eye, if he turned his head. Sasuke was facing forward.

Hachibee was directly behind him. Look at the panel in the bottom left corner: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/014/

[Shaunlim]

It was a hypothetical situation using things that each fighter has done to make up the scenerio, it's believeable I think.

Killerbee has nothing that can actually stop Sasuke from activating Ameratsu unless he can kill him literally two seconds into the fight.

And with the speed that he is moving at, I can make up a situation where he suddenly appears behind Sasuke and slice off his head. Such situations can only work so far.

And Killerbee is more than capable of stopping Sasuke from activating it. All he has to do is distract him by continuous attacking him. Which wouldn't allow him to focus his chakra.


At best Sasuke would only be able to see Hachibee out of the corner of his eye, if he turned his head. Sasuke was facing forward.

Hachibee was directly behind him. Look at the panel in the bottom left corner: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/014/

Yes, he would thus knowing which way Hachibi went and have a rough idea which he doesn't as shown when he was asking Karin to find him.

[Raizen]

This is a flawed argument, you state that DRS (? is this Shiki Fuujin) hasn't killed anyone because so and so; that breaks your argument completely since you're countering with the same logic that D45 used (Amaretsu hasn't killed anyone because so and so). Just cuz Amaretsu hasn't killed anyone so far doesn't change the fact that it can, which is applicable to every life threatning jutsu (that hasn't killed anyone yet). Minato could have killed the Kyuubi with Shiki Fuujin if he wanted to, why can't Itachi kill Sasuke with Amaretsu if he wanted to, flawed argument. :blink

Kamui hasn't shown that it can kill someone but I doubt someone could (Hidan ?) still be alive if Kakashi sents their head to another dimension. Deidara's big bang hasn't killed anyone, does that mean it's incapable of doing so, Kirin hasn't killed anyone either, does that mean it can't ? :confused
1- itachi's amaretsu was countered by the sunstitution so no it can't kill sasuke even if he wanted to
2- in a way, DRS did kill the fox, by trapping it in the belly. So yes DRS can kill

I don't see how this is such a big deal.
[hr]

If Killerbee uses a Kawarimi as he's on fire, it doesn't take away from the fact that he's still on fire. He'd have to anticpate an attack, which takes about 1 second at most to use, as soon as he saw Sasuke's eyes change.
So now sasuke can fire amaretsu in a second huh?? even though someone who had amaretsu for a long time took time to actually prepare it?? :notrust


He's never used KB before so its BS to think he can, and if he prepared a replacement, a replacement can't fight and Sasuke would likely be able to tell its a replacement with his Sharigan, unlike a Kage Bushin which is an exact replica.
A replacement is not a clone. A replacement is preparing yourself to switch with a item or object to avoid being hit. U can prepare substitution anytime and get it ready


The first two times Ameratsu was used it wasn't mean to kill anyone. The second time it was used was in desperation on a giant Biju with the intention of saving people, not neccessarily killing the Biju. Not to mention Sasuke put the flames out and thought he captured Bee.
I'm not taking things out of context, I'm simply using your logic.
So it hasn't killed anyone. Glad to see u understand
And whether sasuke put out the flames or not, killer already escaped


Do you think Sasuke would be dumb enough to try the same thing he did last time, and thus get himself killed?
So if sasuke can change his battle plan why not killer??


I understand that, at the same time, they weren't attacking serious and weren't trying to kill him until Sasuke got fucked up. Also, Sasuke didn't use Ameratsu until the end of the fight, I'm saying he'd have to use it right off the bat to win.
"THEY". u do know this is a 1-on-1 battle. Sasukle went in with all he got and got owned. Stop making up excuses. That is fact
As for using amaretsu, he used it on a immobile bijuu, not hard to concentrate on is it? Killer in base form is much faster. If sasuke with sharingan couldn't read killer's movements then he can't focus to use amaretsu.


Him having fun, not something you want to do while your fighting someone like Sasuke, even if you are superior to them. Him geting carried away shows he isn't in great control of his emotions, something that is never beneficial for a ninja, and it also showed a lack of intelligence on his part seeing as how it ended up hurting him.
And still he won and made a fool out of aatsuki. that is a win to me. Stop making up stupid shit just to make ur argument sound better than it is

as for me I am finish with this. u got no good claims, just a bunch of bs to support sasgay. So u keep doing that, more power to ya :D

[TheChosenOne]

1- itachi's amaretsu was countered by the sunstitution so no it can't kill sasuke even if he wanted to

If Itachi trully wanted to kill Sasuke using Amaretsu he would have so, one of the main reasons for Sasuke's survival was because Itachi never used it to kill him. :)


2- in a way, DRS did kill the fox, by trapping it in the belly. So yes DRS can killHalf of the Kyuubi is still alive. So DRS hasn't shown that it can fully kill someone, does that mean it can't if the person was capable of it. :)


I don't see how this is such a big deal.It's a trifling matter, just pointing out that how the jutsu is used also depends on the user. Kirabi's chakra blast (arguably one of the most powerful attacks in the manga) hasn't killed anyone, does that mean it can't ? :confused

[~Joshua~]

Except Sasuke doesn't use Genjutsu outside of Tsyukiyomi which requires eye contact. He didn't use genjutsu on Orochimaru as much as he reversed the technique on him with his eyes.

The only time we see Sasuke using regular genjutsu was against his brother, and the whole battle was going on between their minds via Sharigan genjutsu.

Sasuke only uses Sharigan Genjutsu is what I'm getting at. Jiraiya just has to not look in Sasuke eyes which he knows not to do.

Sasuke used regular genjutsu against Deidara.

[DarkManSharingan32]

In reguards to Hachibi:
It's important to note that Sasuke's Sharingan genjutsu, if well timed... still debilitates Hachibi for some amount of time. It's a short window, but it's possible to set up a follow up attack.

Genjutsu is not out of Sasuke's arsenal by a long shot.

[Raizen]

In reguards to Hachibi:
It's important to note that Sasuke's Sharingan genjutsu, if well timed... still debilitates Hachibi for some amount of time. It's a short window, but it's possible to set up a follow up attack.

Genjutsu is not out of Sasuke's arsenal by a long shot.
Uh yeah it is...
sasuke's most powerful was broken. And u can't follow up with another powerful attack let alone MS right after a gen. No user of genjutsu has ever done so

[Delbi]

Uh yeah it is...
sasuke's most powerful was broken. And u can't follow up with another powerful attack let alone MS right after a gen. No user of genjutsu has ever done so

Itachi showed against Naruto that a genjutsu can be used and you don't even know you are in one.

If Killerbee got put into a genjutsu by Sasuke, and didn't know it, he wouldn't try and break it.

Sasuke used Tsyukiyomi because it is a debilitatiing genjutsu that more or less instantly knocks you out, most genjutsu do not do that.

Sasuke could very well layer genjutsu like he and his brother did to one another and distract Bee and kill him. He would exaust himself because he won't be using Tsyukiyomi.

[jdw]

Itachi showed against Naruto that a genjutsu can be used and you don't even know you are in one.

If Killerbee got put into a genjutsu by Sasuke, and didn't know it, he wouldn't try and break it.

Sasuke used Tsyukiyomi because it is a debilitatiing genjutsu that more or less instantly knocks you out, most genjutsu do not do that.

Sasuke could very well layer genjutsu like he and his brother did to one another and distract Bee and kill him. He would exaust himself because he won't be using Tsyukiyomi.

The tailed beast would know and break it because they are in harmony.

[ninjabot]

^The bijuu would disrupt it AFTER Hachibi is caught by it. Not before. Whether it breaks the Genjutsu in time for Hachibi to avoid a fatal wound is entirely dependent on the nature of the Genjutsu.

Example?

Hachibi goes tails mode and stabs a Genjutsu of Sasuke with Number 8. It's at that point that the bijuu would warn him that it was a Genjutsu (after he's already pulled his mad-bull rush and is about to stab it).

Now, Hachibi isn't gonna just stop all willy nilly. He'd be like a speeding car with faulty breaks. Also, an easy target for the Amaterasu that Sasuke was preparing while hiding in Hachibi's blindspot.

Endgame.

[Spike Spiegal]

Not a chance.

Tsukiyomi was broken by the Bijuu in mere fractions of a second, what your saying takes many seconds to do.(the Tsukiyomi Sas used was on a Bee who was already mid-attack)

Tsukiyomi's effects are what paralyzed Bee for a second or two, reg. genjutsu wouldn't have that effect.

Even if he uses Tsukiyomi to for the couple of seconds of paralysis, he'd probably would be recovering from the chakra consuming jutsu he just used, not to mention the deterioration of eyesight and pain that is inevitable.

Besides, the only jutsu he could use in that time frame would be Ama, and stating Sasuke can pull of Back-to-Back MS jutsu(different ones none the less) with literately no time in between is a stretch that I'm not willing to give Sasuke.

[Delbi]

The tailed beast would know and break it because they are in harmony.

How would the tailed beast know his host is in a genjutsu? The reason he knew he was in Tsyukiyomi was because it was obvious. If the genjutsu isn't obvious you can not tell you are in one.

Most genjutsu are used to distract and confuse, the best way to do that seems to be to create a realistic genjutsu that the target isn't aware of, much like Itachi did against Naruto.

Tsyukiyomi, aside from the Frog Song, is the only genjutsu that is meant to disable the person completely, even after the genjutsu wears off. Regular genjutsu hasn't shown to be able to do that as long as you aren't weak minded and eventually realize you were in a genjutsu. Even if you realize you are in Tsyukiyomi, and mangae to survive it, it leaves you disabled like it did against Kakashi.

Sasuke however, when put into a genjutsu by Orochimaru, broke out of it and was fine.

If Killerbee is put into a genjutsu, both he or his Biju would have to notice they were in one, and if the genjutsu is real enough, they won't.

[Shaunlim]

How would the tailed beast know his host is in a genjutsu? The reason he knew he was in Tsyukiyomi was because it was obvious. If the genjutsu isn't obvious you can not tell you are in one.

Most genjutsu are used to distract and confuse, the best way to do that seems to be to create a realistic genjutsu that the target isn't aware of, much like Itachi did against Naruto.

Tsyukiyomi, aside from the Frog Song, is the only genjutsu that is meant to disable the person completely, even after the genjutsu wears off. Regular genjutsu hasn't shown to be able to do that as long as you aren't weak minded and eventually realize you were in a genjutsu. Even if you realize you are in Tsyukiyomi, and mangae to survive it, it leaves you disabled like it did against Kakashi.

Sasuke however, when put into a genjutsu by Orochimaru, broke out of it and was fine.

If Killerbee is put into a genjutsu, both he or his Biju would have to notice they were in one, and if the genjutsu is real enough, they won't.

A bijuu can sense the invasion of the chakra system.......this have already been shown over and over again. It could be as realistic as it gets and yet it won't do anything if Hachibi(the bijuu) can sense the invasion of enemy chakra.

[DarkManSharingan32]

A bijuu can sense the invasion of the chakra system.......this have already been shown over and over again. It could be as realistic as it gets and yet it won't do anything if Hachibi(the bijuu) can sense the invasion of enemy chakra.

Over and over again?
Then explain why Naruto has been getting whooped in Genjutsu all day.

Killerbee knew it because he got Paralyzed in mid air after looking Sasuke directly in the eyes.

Now if a Genjutsu didn't clash with what Killerbee expected, it's possible for it to go unnoticed.

Having a Bijuu is not an auto-cancel.
If it was, Killerbee would ever have been effected in the first place.

[jdw]

Over and over again?
Then explain why Naruto has been getting whooped in Genjutsu all day.

Killerbee knew it because he got Paralyzed in mid air after looking Sasuke directly in the eyes.

Now if a Genjutsu didn't clash with what Killerbee expected, it's possible for it to go unnoticed.

Having a Bijuu is not an auto-cancel.
If it was, Killerbee would ever have been effected in the first place.

Naruto and Kyuubi are not in harmony, bee said with hosts who can control their beasts. Naruto, as you well know, cannot control Kyuubi. As bee said, if a bijuu and its host are in harmony, genjutsu is useless: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/
Bee is the only other living jinchuuriki besides Naruto, so we have to rely on what he says until Naruto says or does otherwise when he is in harmony with his beast. It isn't cancelled before it happens, it is cancelled after it has begun, this much is clear from the fight. Maybe they cannot sense the chakra before it arrives, and it starts as soon as it arrives. Notice how bee did not say the combination works on "obvious genjutsu only."

[Shaunlim]

Over and over again?
Then explain why Naruto has been getting whooped in Genjutsu all day.

Killerbee knew it because he got Paralyzed in mid air after looking Sasuke directly in the eyes.

Now if a Genjutsu didn't clash with what Killerbee expected, it's possible for it to go unnoticed.

Having a Bijuu is not an auto-cancel.
If it was, Killerbee would ever have been effected in the first place.

All day? Last time I checked, Naruto only got whooped by Genjutsu once which btw was casted by the best gen user in the series. And either case, like others have mentioned, Kyuubi and Naruto ain't exactly the best friends.

[jdw]

All day? Last time I checked, Naruto only got whooped by Genjutsu once which btw was casted by the best gen user in the series. And either case, like others have mentioned, Kyuubi and Naruto ain't exactly the best friends.

Itachi got him like twice, once with Kakashi, Sakura and Chiyo around and the other time when he shoved a crow down his throat. The second is arguable because it was a KB, but you are right either way, only Itachi has pwned him up until now (once for certain, second is doubtful because KB), as far as I can recall anyway.

*Well, there was that one time during the chuunin final before the battle broke out, when shika and sakura dodged it and Naruto knocked out, LOL. So, he has been caught at least twice.

[En Yang Ji]

When was it stated a bijuu can sense genjutsu or chakra from another shinobi?

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Why do people still begin up genjutsu when it comes to Killerbee? I could have swear the guy said clearly that genjutsus wouldn't work on him or a Jin. that's in harmony with it's bijuu. It doesn't matter whether it realistic or not genjutsu wouldn't work on him. I think that much had already been made clear in the manga, i don't know why people feel the need to complicate things. Killerbee said genjutsus would not work on him, not "obvious genjutsu will not work" on him.

I don't know how putting him in a realistic genjutsu will help Sasuke or any genjutsu user in the first place. I don't see how a realistic genjutsu will do any damage to Killerbee or anyone. In case you haven't notice genjutsu are meant to mind-fuck or paralyze an opponent.

I don't even remember any realistic genjutsu been use in the manga. Was there ever a realistic genjutsu used in the manga? Most of the genjutsu i remember had been quite unrealistic.

[Hauradrims3]

Why do people still begin up genjutsu when it comes to Killerbee? I could have swear the guy said clearly that genjutsus wouldn't work on him or a Jin. that's in harmony with it's bijuu. It doesn't matter whether it realistic or not genjutsu wouldn't work on him. I think that much had already been made clear in the manga, i don't know why people feel the need to complicate things. Killerbee said genjutsus would not work on him, not "obvious genjutsu will not work" on him.

I don't know how putting him in a realistic genjutsu will help Sasuke or any genjutsu user in the first place. I don't see how a realistic genjutsu will do any damage to Killerbee or anyone. In case you haven't notice genjutsu are meant to mind-fuck or paralyze an opponent.

I don't even remember any realistic genjutsu been use in the manga. Was there ever a realistic genjutsu used in the manga? Most of the genjutsu i remember had been quite unrealistic.

Well its not like hes immune to it, its just that he has to break it every time. But hes not going to break the genjutsu if it looks realistic. But if he were immune, he would never have to break it.

Sure realistic genjutsu wont damage him, but he can still screw with his mind. For instance, when itachi used genjutsu on naruto the first time, for a while, it looked real (if i remember correctly it made naruto waste chakra on a rasengan). This was useful to itachi because he could 1v1 kakashi in the meantime.

But its not like Sasuke is the type of person to think of something like that. That would seem more possible for Itachi.

[ZeroAxis]

Realistic or unrealistic, Killerbee broke Tsukiyomi, likely the strongest genjutsu. Killer Bee by himself would be screwed, but his bijuu resets his chakra and nullifies all genjutsu period. Sasuke would have to cast it on the bijuu first when it forms.

[Delbi]

Why do people still begin up genjutsu when it comes to Killerbee? I could have swear the guy said clearly that genjutsus wouldn't work on him or a Jin. that's in harmony with it's bijuu. It doesn't matter whether it realistic or not genjutsu wouldn't work on him. I think that much had already been made clear in the manga, i don't know why people feel the need to complicate things. Killerbee said genjutsus would not work on him, not "obvious genjutsu will not work" on him.

I don't know how putting him in a realistic genjutsu will help Sasuke or any genjutsu user in the first place. I don't see how a realistic genjutsu will do any damage to Killerbee or anyone. In case you haven't notice genjutsu are meant to mind-fuck or paralyze an opponent.

I don't even remember any realistic genjutsu been use in the manga. Was there ever a realistic genjutsu used in the manga? Most of the genjutsu i remember had been quite unrealistic.

1) Characters have been known to not only lie, but be uninformed. I don't think we should be taking characters words for the truth. If I say bullets can't kill me, because I got shot in the arm and didn't die, would you believe me?

2) It's quite simple how a realistic genjutsu works to someones advantage. I make a illusion that you just killed me, you think it's real, then the real me comes up behind you and kills you.

3) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/03/ The entire first part of the Itachi vs. Sasuke fight was a realistic genjutsu.

Also check out this. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/6/16/ Kakashi made a realistic genjutsu of Sasuke dying on Sakura.

Considering Sasuke has the Sharigan, one of the strongest ways to induce genjutsu, he could easily preform one on Killerbee of him getting killed from one of Killerbee's attacks. Killerbee should believe it considering how he had Sasuke dead to rights, twice in one fight. Killerbee would think he is victorious, then Sasuke shoves his sword through Killerbee's head.

[Hauradrims3]

Realistic or unrealistic, Killerbee broke Tsukiyomi, likely the strongest genjutsu. Killer Bee by himself would be screwed, but his bijuu resets his chakra and nullifies all genjutsu period. Sasuke would have to cast it on the bijuu first when it forms.

lol he doesent do it 24/7 =P
He either does it when killabee tells him to, or when he notices that killabee is in a genjutsu.

This is where comes the idea of using realistic genjutsu. If the 8tails doesent notice the genjutsu, then he wouldent try to break it now would he?

[jdw]

Kishi is writing the story and he decided to share with us, through Bee, that genjutsu does not work on junchuuriki who control their beasts. Bee could by lying, but he just broke tsukiyomi. Why is there all of this doubt when the evidence is there? I am not saying he can't be wrong, but the evidence is on his side so far. Also, considering that he has probably encountered genjutsu before, and it had to be non-tsukiyomi unless he had a previous fight with Sasuke (who just got his mangekyou, or Itachi (or Madara or potentially Kakasji). So, he has to have had experience breaking different genjutsu.

Also consider that he may not just be speaking for his own experience. Cloud village had two jinchuuriki at the same time and it is also possible it was confirmed to him by Yugito as well. There is no evidence that they knew each other, but I think it is likely they did as jinchuuriki of the same village who may have undergone similar training to control their beasts, etc. He didn't just say It doesn't work on him, he spoke for the entire class of jinchuuriki.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

1) Characters have been known to not only lie, but be uninformed. I don't think we should be taking characters words for the truth. If I say bullets can't kill me, because I got shot in the arm and didn't die, would you believe me?

I do understand that characters words turn out to be lie sometimes, but i don't see any reason why not to take what Killerbee said as been true. Nothing in the manga contradict what he said. Until it shown in the manga that he can't break a certain type of genjutsu, then what he said should be taken as fact. And that is, genjutsus wouldn't work against him or any jin. in harmony with it's bijuu.



2) It's quite simple how a realistic genjutsu works to someones advantage. I make a illusion that you just killed me, you think it's real, then the real me comes up behind you and kills you.

The genjutsu would have to be release for that to work. Once you are kill in the genjutsu you would have to release it and then try to stab the opponent in the real world. There is no guarantee that the person wouldn't be able to react to you attacking him. Once you release the genjutsu, it shouldn't take long for the opponent to see that what just happen didn't really happen.

And again Killerbee said genjutsus wouldn't work against him, not that obvious genjutsu wouldn't work against him.


3) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/03/ The entire first part of the Itachi vs. Sasuke fight was a realistic genjutsu.

Also check out this. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/6/16/ Kakashi made a realistic genjutsu of Sasuke dying on Sakura.
The Itachi vs. Sasuke one wasn't all realistic genjutsu: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/384/15/

But i totally forgot about Kakashi placing Sakura in a genjutsu.


Considering Sasuke has the Sharigan, one of the strongest ways to induce genjutsu, he could easily preform one on Killerbee of him getting killed from one of Killerbee's attacks. Killerbee should believe it considering how he had Sasuke dead to rights, twice in one fight. Killerbee would think he is victorious, then Sasuke shoves his sword through Killerbee's head.
Like i said, Sasuke would have to release the genjutsu after and try to get to Killerbee in the real world.

And this is all fruitless, there is no indication that realistic genjutsu would work on Killerbee. The guy said no genjutsus would work on him, realistic genjutsu fall into that category. Realistic genjutsu is still a genjutsu.

[En Yang Ji]

Itachi was fighting Kakashi after putting Naruto in a genjutsu. Look at the bottom panel of this page: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/18/

[Shaunlim]

lol he doesent do it 24/7 =P
He either does it when killabee tells him to, or when he notices that killabee is in a genjutsu.

This is where comes the idea of using realistic genjutsu. If the 8tails doesent notice the genjutsu, then he wouldent try to break it now would he?



Considering Sasuke has the Sharigan, one of the strongest ways to induce genjutsu, he could easily preform one on Killerbee of him getting killed from one of Killerbee's attacks. Killerbee should believe it considering how he had Sasuke dead to rights, twice in one fight. Killerbee would think he is victorious, then Sasuke shoves his sword through Killerbee's head.

Someone needs to try another angle here. This have been address over and over again. A bijuu can sense the invasion of the host's chakra system. Again, this have been shown numerous time. With the relationship between Hachibi and Killerbee, genjutsu simply won't work. Because, Killerbee can easily break out of it.

And don't give the whole Sasuke will slice off his head before he can break out scenario. It's obviously a biased scenario which has never happened once in the entire manga.

[jdw]

Someone needs to try another angle here. This have been address over and over again. A bijuu can sense the invasion of the host's chakra system. Again, this have been shown numerous time. With the relationship between Hachibi and Killerbee, genjutsu simply won't work. Because, Killerbee can easily break out of it.

And don't give the whole Sasuke will slice off his head before he can break out scenario. It's obviously a biased scenario which has never happened once in the entire manga.

It is becoming useless because Sasuke fans are generally unwilling to see flaws or fault in him, or positive sides to anyone who would fight him. The fact that Bee broke the genjutsu leads them to say things like "Bee may be lying," right after he broke the most powerful genjutsu in the manga after the sword of totsuka (curiously, I wonder what would happen if this was used on bee).

[Shaunlim]

^^Bee would be sealed in the genjutsu realm regardless since it is more to a sealing technique than a genjutsu. But whether one can escape or not is another thing. We haven't seen enough of it to make any conclusion regarding it.

[ninjabot]

And don't give the whole Sasuke will slice off his head before he can break out scenario. It's obviously a biased scenario which has never happened once in the entire manga.

That statement holds no ground whatsoever. Not just because it's sour grapes, but because it HAS happened in the manga before.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-08/ Here's an opponent getting caught by a paralyzing Genjutsu.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/ And here's what happens while the enemy is paralyzed by that Genjutsu. The subduer cuts the enemy down, ending the fight. Granted, he did'nt go for the head. But you get the point.

Now, in the bolded sentence above you stated that NEVER IN THE MANGA has a ninja attacked their opponent while they were subdued with Genjutsu. Which is silly to begin with, simply because Genjutsu is meant to confuse the enemy so that they can be cut down. Hell, what we're saying Sasuke will do with his Genjutsu is how Genjutsu is SUPPOSED to be used.

And to call someone biased. Yeah, stop that.

[Shaunlim]

That statement holds no ground whatsoever. Not just because it's sour grapes, but because it HAS happened in the manga before.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-08/ Here's an opponent getting caught by a paralyzing Genjutsu.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/ And here's what happens while the enemy is paralyzed by that Genjutsu. The subduer cuts the enemy down, ending the fight. Granted, he did'nt go for the head. But you get the point.

Now, in the bolded sentence above you stated that NEVER IN THE MANGA has a ninja attacked their opponent while they were subdued with Genjutsu. Which is silly to begin with, simply because Genjutsu is meant to confuse the enemy so that they can be cut down. Hell, what we're saying Sasuke will do with his Genjutsu is how Genjutsu is SUPPOSED to be used.

And to call someone biased. Yeah, stop that.

Reread and see what I write before you want to start criticizing me. I clearly stated that no where in the manga was it shown even once that a person's head got sliced off after being genjutsu'ed. So yes...my point still stands.

[Hauradrims3]

Someone needs to try another angle here. This have been address over and over again. A bijuu can sense the invasion of the host's chakra system. Again, this have been shown numerous time. With the relationship between Hachibi and Killerbee, genjutsu simply won't work. Because, Killerbee can easily break out of it.

And don't give the whole Sasuke will slice off his head before he can break out scenario. It's obviously a biased scenario which has never happened once in the entire manga.

It worked.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/09/
''I cant move'' Sure it dint last long, but it worked.

[Shaunlim]

It worked.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/09/
''I cant move'' Sure it dint last long, but it worked.

I'm not saying it won't work as in the genjutsu won't start.....I'm saying that it won't work in sense that it won't have any real effect...........

[Delbi]

It is becoming useless because Sasuke fans are generally unwilling to see flaws or fault in him, or positive sides to anyone who would fight him. The fact that Bee broke the genjutsu leads them to say things like "Bee may be lying," right after he broke the most powerful genjutsu in the manga after the sword of totsuka (curiously, I wonder what would happen if this was used on bee).

And people who hate the Uchiha can't seem to get past the fact that the Sharigan has been hyped so much in the manga for a reason, because it's very powerful.

As for the sword of Totsuka, it would work on anyone seeing as how its more of a sealing jutsu. It seals your soul into a eternal blissful genjutsu or whatever. Nothing is stopping that I'd think.
[hr]

I'm not saying it won't work as in the genjutsu won't start.....I'm saying that it won't work in sense that it won't have any real effect...........

It did have an effect though, he fell on the ground. However long that lasted, my guess is several seconds, it affected him.

Tsyukiyomi is relatively useless against Killerbee, but if used correctly, Sasuke might have a chance at getting a powerful enough attack off to hurt Bee while he was down for a few seconds. Granted it would be difficult, but it is possible.

[jdw]

And people who hate the Uchiha can't seem to get past the fact that the Sharigan has been hyped so much in the manga for a reason, because it's very powerful.

As for the sword of Totsuka, it would work on anyone seeing as how its more of a sealing jutsu. It seals your soul into a eternal blissful genjutsu or whatever. Nothing is stopping that I'd think.
<hr noshade size="1">


It did have an effect though, he fell on the ground. However long that lasted, my guess is several seconds, it affected him.

Tsyukiyomi is relatively useless, but if used correctly, Sasuke might have a chance at getting a powerful enough attack off to hurt Bee while he was like for a few seconds. Granted it would be difficult, but it is possible.

Yes, I know the sharingan is powerful. I think it is so impressive that if I were a shinobi I'd want one over the rinnegan or byakugan. Still, it isn't infallible though it is a great tool to have in an arsenal.

[Delbi]

Yes, I know the sharingan is powerful. I think it is so impressive that if I were a shinobi I'd want one over the rinnegan or byakugan. Still, it isn't infallible though it is a great tool to have in an arsenal.

That's true, but you can't deny that many people hate the Uchiha on these boards. At the same time, many people suck Uchiha balls for all their worth.

My point is, Itachi and Sasuke have been shown by Kishi, the creator of the manga, to be superior to almost eveyone in the manga they have faced.

Sasuke, was losing the fight against Killerbee, theres no doubting that, without his team he would of been dead.

However...As soon as Killerbee unleashed his final form, Sasuke used 1 jutsu in Ameratsu to end the fight.

People then go on and say, "Well Killerbee is too fast, Sasuke can't hit him with it." or "He escaped it once, he can do it again."

Ameratsu appears anywhere the person is looking, all Sasuke needs to do is look at Bee and he can summon inexstinguishable flames on top of him.

Also, Killerbee escaped the jutsu, while in his final form only, and when he transformed, he used up almost all of his energy. If he managed to escape it again after using his final form, he would be easy pickings for Sasuke.

[jdw]

That's true, but you can't deny that many people hate the Uchiha on these boards. At the same time, many people suck Uchiha balls for all their worth.

My point is, Itachi and Sasuke have been shown by Kishi, the creator of the manga, to be superior to almost eveyone in the manga they have faced.

Sasuke, was losing the fight against Killerbee, theres no doubting that, without his team he would of been dead.

However...As soon as Killerbee unleashed his final form, Sasuke used 1 jutsu in Ameratsu to end the fight.

People then go on and say, "Well Killerbee is too fast, Sasuke can't hit him with it." or "He escaped it once, he can do it again."

Ameratsu appears anywhere the person is looking, all Sasuke needs to do is look at Bee and he can summon inexstinguishable flames on top of him.

Also, Killerbee escaped the jutsu, while in his final form only, and when he transformed, he used up almost all of his energy. If he managed to escape it again after using his final form, he would be easy pickings for Sasuke.

I don't doubt that Sasuke could catch Bee in it again. Will he? Who knows. It is a fight and each will do whatever they can to win. It is entirely possible that Sasuke could set him up with a genjutsu knowing he'll escape it and have a kusanagi stab waiting for him. It is also possible that be could escape it in a way that won't leave him as easy pickings and he could body slam sasuke with an independent chakra grab, bypassing sharingan. Ultimately, doubt they will face off again. The thing I am curious about is what else does Bee have to offer? We pretty much know what Sasuke has, though he may have a few unseen jutsu. I am hesitant to think that all be can do is use swords and go into tailed form.

I think that Kishi showed us that fight to foreshadow the issues that may be present if/when Naruto and Sasuke face off. This will be part of the gauntlet. My thoughts are that one of the following will be true: Sasuke will be able to control/suppress Kyuubi even after Naruto has come to control it (canceling him out of the fight completely or possibly using it against Naruto) or Naruto will resist sasuke control of Kyuubi and be able to use him to counter genjutsu (nullifying tsukiyomi and regular sharing genjutsu, and potentially nullifying the sharingan's ability to semi-predict movement by allowing Kyuubi chakra to move on its own). Whichever is true may determine the victor.

[Shaunlim]

It did have an effect though, he fell on the ground. However long that lasted, my guess is several seconds, it affected him.

Tsyukiyomi is relatively useless against Killerbee, but if used correctly, Sasuke might have a chance at getting a powerful enough attack off to hurt Bee while he was down for a few seconds. Granted it would be difficult, but it is possible.

Several is pushing it. As it seems that Killerbee straight away recovered from it after finding out and charged at Sasuke. 2-3 seconds from the way it looks.

It's impossible unless Sasuke is capable of withstanding the side effect of Tsukiyomi. Him being stunned himself for a few seconds after using it is not going to cut it. Especialy if Tsukiyomi won't be doing anything much against Hachibi.



Also, Killerbee escaped the jutsu, while in his final form only, and when he transformed, he used up almost all of his energy. If he managed to escape it again after using his final form, he would be easy pickings for Sasuke.

That's entirely false. Before the fight against Sasuke he already transformed into a bijuu beforehand(which took out a lot from him), yet he was able to do so well. Even after the Amateratsu, he wasn't exactly tired or exhausted. So this shows how much stamina the guy has.

[Hauradrims3]

Several is pushing it. As it seems that Killerbee straight away recovered from it after finding out and charged at Sasuke. 2-3 seconds from the way it looks.

It's impossible unless Sasuke is capable of withstanding the side effect of Tsukiyomi. Him being stunned himself for a few seconds after using it is not going to cut it. Especialy if Tsukiyomi won't be doing anything much against Hachibi.



That's entirely false. Before the fight against Sasuke he already transformed into a bijuu beforehand(which took out a lot from him), yet he was able to do so well. Even after the Amateratsu, he wasn't exactly tired or exhausted. So this shows how much stamina the guy has.

Tsukuyomi affects only one eye, Amaterasu the other. He could have followed with amaterasu while killabee was still in the air if he knew how to use it. Besides, itachi used amaterasu twice in a row and even split one of them. He then extinguished it which seems like another MS ability which also has a side effect.

Thus its most likely possible, whether sasuke can pull it off is a different story.

[Shaunlim]

Tsukuyomi affects only one eye, Amaterasu the other. He could have followed with amaterasu while killabee was still in the air if he knew how to use it. Besides, itachi used amaterasu twice in a row and even split one of them. He then extinguished it which seems like another MS ability which also has a side effect.

Thus its most likely possible, whether sasuke can pull it off is a different story.

Doesn't matter. What happened to Itachi after his Tsukiyomi was broken out from? Same thing happened to Sasuke. And there is no way, they will be connecting it with an Amateratsu unless you have something to show otherwise.
[hr]
Also, Itachi is Itachi while Sasuke is Sasuke. What Itachi can do with his Amateratsu doesn't mean Sasuke can do it.

[Hauradrims3]

Doesn't matter. What happened to Itachi after his Tsukiyomi was broken out from? Same thing happened to Sasuke. And there is no way, they will be connecting it with an Amateratsu unless you have something to show otherwise.
<hr noshade size="1">
Also, Itachi is Itachi while Sasuke is Sasuke. What Itachi can do with his Amateratsu doesn't mean Sasuke can do it.

Like i said, Tsukuyomi affects one eye while amaterasu the other. One of his eyes may be strained, but his other eye is ready to shoot amaterasu.
Additionally. Sasuke used amaterasu and followed by extinguishing it twice. He can use MS techniques even while hes still under the side-effects of using MS.

[Shaunlim]

Like i said, Tsukuyomi affects one eye while amaterasu the other. One of his eyes may be strained, but his other eye is ready to shoot amaterasu.
Additionally. Sasuke used amaterasu and followed by extinguishing it twice. He can use MS techniques even while hes still under the side-effects of using MS.

Doesn't matter if Sasuke is going to hold on to his head due to the massive headache he gets after using an MS jutsu. Which btw would make him lose focus thus unable to use Amateratsu.

And extinguishing after using Amateratsu is different from shooting out Amateratsu after using Tsukiyomi since we don't know the extent of how the extinguishing works compared to an MS jutsu.

[Hauradrims3]

Doesn't matter if Sasuke is going to hold on to his head due to the massive headache he gets after using an MS jutsu. Which btw would make him lose focus thus unable to use Amateratsu.

And extinguishing after using Amateratsu is different from shooting out Amateratsu after using Tsukiyomi since we don't know the extent of how the extinguishing works compared to an MS jutsu.

Sasuke is going to hold his right eye after using tsukuyomi, he can still use his left eye for amaterasu. He holds his eye because his eye hurts, its not a headache. And its clearly possible to follow two MS techniques especially considering extinguishing amaterasu requires both eyes to have MS activated. The side-effects looks the same/worst than using amaterasu/tsukuyomi for sasuke.

[Shaunlim]

Sasuke is going to hold his right eye after using tsukuyomi, he can still use his left eye for amaterasu. He holds his eye because his eye hurts, its not a headache. And its clearly possible to follow two MS techniques especially considering extinguishing amaterasu requires both eyes to have MS activated. The side-effects looks the same/worst than using amaterasu/tsukuyomi for sasuke.

Assumptions at best since there is a delay before him extinguishing the flames. And that delay is all that is needed. So no, he can't use it consecutively. Unless, you have something else to show to support this, then no.

[jodi]

The tailed beast would know and break it because they are in harmony.

he meant that tsukiomy is a genjutsu that shows that you are inside one because it hurts you
but other type of genjutsus don't do that, like the one itachi did on deidara
deidara didnt know he was in a genjutsu, but he instantly would if it was a tsukiomy that hurts him

[Hauradrims3]

Assumptions at best since there is a delay before him extinguishing the flames. And that delay is all that is needed. So no, he can't use it consecutively. Unless, you have something else to show to support this, then no.

No, what ive just proven is that he can use MS techniques while under the side-effects of using MS. And since he has the left eye free while hes under the effects of using tsukuyomi, he can use amaterasu.

There is no delay, the effects dont magically dissepear after two seconds of holding his eye. This isent pain.

It is also an assumption that he cant. Unless you can prove that there is an interval in which his powers are gone and thus making him unable to cast amaterasu after tsukuyomi, then yes. Like i said, this isent pain. He can do it with extra effort.

There is still a 2-3 second interval before killerbee got up from ''not being able to move'', with extra effort, he can squeeze the amaterasu inside that interval. Thats the tactic.

[Shaunlim]

No, what ive just proven is that he can use MS techniques while under the side-effects of using MS. And since he has the left eye free while hes under the effects of using tsukuyomi, he can use amaterasu.

There is no delay, the effects dont magically dissepear after two seconds of holding his eye. This isent pain.

It is also an assumption that he cant. Unless you can prove that there is an interval in which his powers are gone and thus making him unable to cast amaterasu after tsukuyomi, then yes. Like i said, this isent pain. He can do it with extra effort.

You have proven nothing except bringing out theories. A prove would be Sasuke doing it which he hasn't.

I'm not talking about delay like his power delay that's something like Pain. I'm talking about him losing focus due to the pain/side effect of the MS. As for the delay from using one MS jutsu to another....and no I'm not talking about Pain's type of delay...I'm talking about the side effect delay.....

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/11/

And since you said you can show me where Sasuke use his MS jutsus in successions, please show me.

[jdw]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/11/

And since you said you can show me where Sasuke use his MS jutsus in successions, please show me.

Reading that reminded me of this: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/28/08/

[ninjabot]

Reread and see what I write before you want to start criticizing me. I clearly stated that no where in the manga was it shown even once that a person's head got sliced off after being genjutsu'ed. So yes...my point still stands.

Yeah, go for the semantics so that your post has atleast a smidge of relevance... despite the fact I friggin' SAID he didn't cut his head off. But whatever. There's nothing whatsoever that prevented Itachi from decapitating Orochimaru at that moment save for Kishimoto's whim.

Answer this hypothetical atleast: if Itachi felt the need to kill Orochimaru by decapitating him right then and there, and we've proof that Orochimaru is subdued for atleast 3 seconds, why is it nonsensical to believe that it'd work if Sasuke did the same to Hachibi?

Same time frame. Same advantage. Almost identical situation, except Orochimaru was subdued pretty much indefinately, where as Hachibi has a good 2-3 second down-time before getting up.

[jdw]

Yeah, go for the semantics so that your post has atleast a smidge of relevance... despite the fact I friggin' SAID he didn't cut his head off. But whatever. There's nothing whatsoever that prevented Itachi from decapitating Orochimaru at that moment save for Kishimoto's whim.

Answer this hypothetical atleast: if Itachi felt the need to kill Orochimaru by decapitating him right then and there, and we've proof that Orochimaru is subdued for atleast 3 seconds, why is it nonsensical to believe that it'd work if Sasuke did the same to Hachibi?

Same time frame. Same advantage. Almost identical situation, except Orochimaru was subdued pretty much indefinately, where as Hachibi has a good 2-3 second down-time before getting up.

One thing is that because they have one fight behind them now, he can at least have his beast on the lookout for genjutsu so that any counter could possibly take place faster than the last time (which could possibly make him more susceptible to other attacks even because he is concentrating on genjutsu). So, if the sharingan is able to cast the genjutsu on Bee, his reaction time might be faster this time around. This isn't to say that Sasuke wouldn't level up his approach to Bee as well.

[Shaunlim]

Yeah, go for the semantics so that your post has atleast a smidge of relevance... despite the fact I friggin' SAID he didn't cut his head off. But whatever. There's nothing whatsoever that prevented Itachi from decapitating Orochimaru at that moment save for Kishimoto's whim.

Answer this hypothetical atleast: if Itachi felt the need to kill Orochimaru by decapitating him right then and there, and we've proof that Orochimaru is subdued for atleast 3 seconds, why is it nonsensical to believe that it'd work if Sasuke did the same to Hachibi?

Same time frame. Same advantage. Almost identical situation, except Orochimaru was subdued pretty much indefinately, where as Hachibi has a good 2-3 second down-time before getting up.

1. I never said a ninja can't be attacked while they are in a genjutsu. From the start to the end, my post said their heads being sliced off. If you can't get this much, then I can't help you. You're the one who's trying to change my words here to make your post sound relevant.

2. Besides the fact that Hachibi has a bijyuu to help him recover faster than Orochimaru, there are other factors to account in that Oro vs Itachi situation. For one, Itachi was just a few Ms away from Orochimaru. He didn't even have to move much. Secondly, now that Hachibi knows that Sasuke has the SHG, he would avoid eye-contact as much as possible as well.

[ninjabot]

This isn't to say that Sasuke wouldn't level up his approach to Bee as well.

And it took THAT long to realize that? It's like, Hachibi is the only one capable or remembering what happened in the last fight according to Shaunlim. Sasuke starts the fight knowing full well that he can immobilize Hachibi with a glance, same as Hachibi knows that he's doomed the moment he looks into Sasuke's eyes...

...which completely rocks his fighting style. He's shown us nothing at all (nothing at ALL) other than the ability to place himself in impending doom by running straight into his enemy, whether with multiple swords or his chakra shroud. Or turning into a slow abomination. His fighting style revolves around close range attacks in an unorthodox manner. Figure out the pattern (which is easier when you've fought him once), and he's forced to re-think his strategy. Which give the enemy time to press the offensive.


He didn't even have to move much. Secondly, now that Hachibi knows that Sasuke has the SHG, he would avoid eye-contact as much as possible as well.

Orochimaru was practically the same distance as Hachibi (closer actually), the only difference was Hachibi was in mid-air and moving at atleast 50x the speed Orochimaru was, AND with the intent to kill. And he was still put down.

Hachibi's bijuu recognizes a disruption in Hachibi's chakra AFTER his chakra is disrupted and altered. And once it's disrupted, it's because he's currently caught in a Genjutsu. We've no choice but to accept it, as that's the only situation we've ever been show to take place. We HAVE'NT seen the bijuu recognize Genjutsu before it affected his host. And even now that he knows Sasuke has Genjutsu, he can't disrupt a Genjutsu that hasn't been cast yet.

As for avoiding eye contact, Hachibi attempted to stab all of Sasuke's vital points with his swords, meaning he was looking at those points before striking. Sasuke managed to avoid the blows even though they took him by surprise. If he knows where his opponent is going to strike, he can maneuver so that their eyes meet, which would in turn give him the chance place Hachibi into a Genjutsu.

Not to mention the only Genjutsu Sasuke used against Hachibi was an MS Genjutsu (when his eye changed form). Hachibi doesn't know whether Sasuke can perform that jutsu with or without MS, especially since he didn't activate it until he activated MS. He'll probably try to overwhelm him again as long as his MS isn't activated. Which again, forces him to close the distance and make it much easier to hit him with Genjutsu.

Hachibi is in no way at all immune to Sasuke's Genjutsu.

[jdw]

And it took THAT long to realize that? It's like, Hachibi is the only one capable or remembering what happened in the last fight according to Shaunlim. Sasuke starts the fight knowing full well that he can immobilize Hachibi with a glance, same as Hachibi knows that he's doomed the moment he looks into Sasuke's eyes...

...which completely rocks his fighting style. He's shown us nothing at all (nothing at ALL) other than the ability to place himself in impending doom by running straight into his enemy, whether with multiple swords or his chakra shroud. Or turning into a slow abomination. His fighting style revolves around close range attacks in an unorthodox manner. Figure out the pattern (which is easier when you've fought him once), and he's forced to re-think his strategy. Which give the enemy time to press the offensive.[...]


Took that long to realize what? I never said that Sasuke wouldn't level up. See this post: http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1332570#post1332570
I have been saying it the entire time. You are just now seeing it :)

Also, I don't think Shaunlim is saying Sasuke won't level up. He appears to be discussing the potential for bee getting caught in another Tsukiyomi or regular sharingan genjutsu. He appears to be saying that if caught, the genjutsu will be broken and I tend to agree. Bee just broke Tsukiyomi, the strongest genjutsu we are aware of with the sharingan. Bee says genjutsu will not work on jinchuuriki who can control their beast and so far the evidence is on his side because Sasuke needed a Phoenix down after casting it (not that it can't change). I am thinking Sasuke can strategize beyond that point however. Generally speaking, he and I are very much in agreement thought we do have some differences in our arguments..

and if we are being fair, running straight into his enemy in tailed mode, against any other enemy than one with a sharingan, which can semi-predict movement, would not be an issue (so far as we have seen because people cant follow the movement). He learned his lesson and I expect both to level up.

[Shaunlim]

And it took THAT long to realize that? It's like, Hachibi is the only one capable or remembering what happened in the last fight according to Shaunlim. Sasuke starts the fight knowing full well that he can immobilize Hachibi with a glance, same as Hachibi knows that he's doomed the moment he looks into Sasuke's eyes...

Orochimaru was practically the same distance as Hachibi (closer actually), the only difference was Hachibi was in mid-air and moving at atleast 50x the speed Orochimaru was, AND with the intent to kill. And he was still put down.

Hachibi's bijuu recognizes a disruption in Hachibi's chakra AFTER his chakra is disrupted and altered. And once it's disrupted, it's because he's currently caught in a Genjutsu. We've no choice but to accept it, as that's the only situation we've ever been show to take place. We HAVE'NT seen the bijuu recognize Genjutsu before it affected his host. And even now that he knows Sasuke has Genjutsu, he can't disrupt a Genjutsu that hasn't been cast yet.

As for avoiding eye contact, Hachibi attempted to stab all of Sasuke's vital points with his swords, meaning he was looking at those points before striking. Sasuke managed to avoid the blows even though they took him by surprise. If he knows where his opponent is going to strike, he can maneuver so that their eyes meet, which would in turn give him the chance place Hachibi into a Genjutsu.

Not to mention the only Genjutsu Sasuke used against Hachibi was an MS Genjutsu (when his eye changed form). Hachibi doesn't know whether Sasuke can perform that jutsu with or without MS, especially since he didn't activate it until he activated MS. He'll probably try to overwhelm him again as long as his MS isn't activated. Which again, forces him to close the distance and make it much easier to hit him with Genjutsu.

Hachibi is in no way at all immune to Sasuke's Genjutsu.

1. I don't even remembering saying such a statement. But let's move on now....

2. Why are we comparing the both of them? The reason why I mentioned Oro's distant was because it is one of the factors that led him to his lost of hand. And in any case, Sasuke clearly didn't react fast enough with Hachibi.

3. No one is saying that Killerbee is immune to Genjutsu. We're just saying that it won't work against him. You can put him in one and he will just break out of it as soon as his bijyuu finds out which I reckon to be pretty fast. Or if it isn't the realistic type, he finds out himself. Eitherway, unless Sasuke manages to by-pass the side effect of Tsukiyomi, he ain't going to be able to do a follow up attack.

[Raizen]

Itachi showed against Naruto that a genjutsu can be used and you don't even know you are in one.

If Killerbee got put into a genjutsu by Sasuke, and didn't know it, he wouldn't try and break it.

Sasuke used Tsyukiyomi because it is a debilitatiing genjutsu that more or less instantly knocks you out, most genjutsu do not do that.

Sasuke could very well layer genjutsu like he and his brother did to one another and distract Bee and kill him. He would exaust himself because he won't be using Tsyukiyomi.
1- sasuke's gen is nowhere close to itachi
2- bee doesn't need to know it as long as his bijuu does. Actually they don't need to know it. When u are a jinjuuriki, ur chakra is constantly being disturbed b.c it is fusing together so no matter what gen it would be broken without the user knowing it

[Delbi]

1- sasuke's gen is nowhere close to itachi
2- bee doesn't need to know it as long as his bijuu does. Actually they don't need to know it. When u are a jinjuuriki, ur chakra is constantly being disturbed b.c it is fusing together so no matter what gen it would be broken without the user knowing it

1. Sasuke's Sharigan Genjutsu has been proved to be greater than Itachi's.

2. This is an assumption, all of the Jinchuriki we have seen have been sealed in different ways, only Naruto and the Fox's chakra are constantly mixing, we have no idea if Killerbee and his Biju's are.

[Shaunlim]

1. Sasuke's Sharigan Genjutsu has been proved to be greater than Itachi's.


Since when was that actually shown? As far as I remember, Itachi is still more superior in this department and at best Sasuke's SHG genjutsu is probably on the same level as Itachi. Nothing was shown regarding it being greater than Itachi's SHG genjutsu.

[DarkManSharingan32]

Since when was that actually shown? As far as I remember, Itachi is still more superior in this department and at best Sasuke's SHG genjutsu is probably on the same level as Itachi. Nothing was shown regarding it being greater than Itachi's SHG genjutsu.

The only thing that was said was Zetsu's remark about Sasuke using the Sharingan better than Itachi did. (The whole thing where he said the Sharingan is a tool, and Sasuke had surpassed Itachi in his use of it.)

Whether that extends to Sharingan Genjutsu specifically is ambiguous.

[Leos~]

1. Hachibi beat Sasuke's best genjutsu, heck, arguably the best genjutsu in the entire manga-verse. This is cannon. If a genjutsu that affects you in the timespan of a second or less doesn't work, not to mention one that's considered almost impossible to break out of, I don't think Sasuke would try using genjutsu on him again. If you try something and it dosen't work (hell, almost gets you killed) try something else. Whether I like or dislike Sasuke, fact is he ain't stupid. If Sasuke and Hachibi fight again, Sasuke probably won't try genjutsu.

2. There's no real diffinitive answer to whether Sasuke's or Itachi's genjutsu is superior, but one could definitely make the argument that Sasuke's eyes are superior based on the fact that throughout the manga some characters (madara and orochimaru i think) have stated how Sasuke's eyes are more powerful, and how he broke out of Itachi's Tsukiyomi. On the other hand one could also make an argument in Itachi's favor, considering the circumstances of that fight. Personally I'd go for Itachi being better at genjutsu simply because of the fact that he had more experience (being older and all) using it than Sasuke.

3. I'm confused, is someone saying Sasuke used Tsukiyomi on Orochimaru? Cuz he didn't even have MS then...

[Raizen]

The sharingan statement by zetsu just means sasuke has the potential to surpass itachi. but that has yet to be shone

[mattiaildivino]

we are considering the match,in a time between the 44rd manga and the 48th,
1)Sasuke would lose against tsunade. he hasn't got the cursed seal anymore,he's about the level he was when he fought itachi or deidara,when he admitted he couldn't have defeated Orochimaru if he hadn't been ill. So he would lose against tsunade.
2)he can defeat Jiraiya,who was the weakest of the sannin,but not him in sage mode(he becomes the strongest of the sannin),so Sasuke would lose.
3)Sasuke would win against Kisame,Amaterasu would burn him.
4)sasuke defeats Gaara,even though we don't know how he stopped the enton.
5)now sasuke would win against him,even though a kimimaro at 100% is something of unblievable,this is the most difficoult match to valute,for us.
6)sasuke would be owned by Bee,he wasn't able to win when he had the Hawk team with him,you can imagine now!
7)grrrrr :( Sasuke wins...
8)Sasuke wins against them,kurenai's genjutsu are very weak against his ones,and Asuma isn't as strong as sasuke.
9)Itachi!!!itachi would have won in the fight where he made sasuke the winner,and he was ill.
10)mmm maybe Hiruzen wins... this fight too is hardly to valute.I think Hiruzen was a little bit stronger than jiraiya if he didn't use the sage mode,or they were equal.so sauke would lose.

[Rikudou King]

Sasuke wins all apart from Kisame, Sasori, Itachi, And possibly Kimimaro.

1- With no actual long range techniques or ninjutsu, Tsunade will have to engage in close combat to fight Sasuke, Which would give him the advantage. Tsunade isn't that fast, So Sasuke would be able to counter her attack with ease. Not just that, But if needed, Sasuke can simply attack from a distance if he wants and Tsunade wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

2- Jiraiya would be harder then Tsunade, But Sasuke would still be able to win. Jiraiya has already admitted he can handle genjutsu well. One genjutsu and Jiraiya will be stopped long enough for Sasuke to finish him off. Even without genjutsu, Sasuke plenty of fast to predict and counter Jiraiya's techniques. Sasuke would also be able to take control of Jiraiya's own summonings, Meaning Jiraiya would be unable to defend himself while going into Sage Mode.

3- Kisame would be really hard. As he can change the field to suit his need, Sasuke will have to attempt to get him before Kisame can do so, Which wouldn't work well as Kisame can negate all of Sasuke's ninjutsu and genjutsu. Close combat would be risky for Sasuke as Kisame will continue to absorb his chakra and use it to heal. Even Amaterasu probably won't work right as Samehada would pull it towards itself. There's no way Sasuke could finish Kisame off before the Water Dome was made.

4- Sasuke has already shown that he can land a hit on Gaara with his normal Chidori and now he has even more Chidori techniques to use against him. With no Shukaku anymore, Gaara won't have his automatic shield meaning he would have to keep up with Sasuke manually, Which would be quite hard for him to do.

5- Kimimaro would probably be pretty hard. He can endure the majority of Sasuke's ninjutsu and his bloodline limit would enable him to endure any attacks while he's under a genjutsu. Kimimaro also appears to have healing ability, Meaning he can heal any damage Sasuke does to him. Any part of him set on fire with Amaterasu would be able to break off, Meaning Amaterasu could end up being a waste to use.

6- Sasuke knows that his genjutsu would be endured by Kirabi, Meaning he won't waste time after he uses one on Kirabi. Amaterasu would counter the Hachibi forms and Sasuke can match Kiabi's swordsmanship as long as they are moving. As long as Sasuke focuses on range attacks, He won't have to worry about Kirabi's counterattack.

7- Sasuke would have a lot of trouble with Sasori. So many puppets would make it hard for Sasuke to predict their movement and Sasori only being a heart would make genjutsu pointless. With his ability to hop between puppet bodies, Sasuke using Amaterasu on him would likely be a waste of chakra. Even if the puppets are broken, They can still be used meaning just cutting them would end up a waste of effort. But the biggest advantage for Sasori is his poisons, Which Sasuke can't counter. Sasuke would fall before Sasori does.

8- Kurenai would be more then useless and Sasuke can outspeed Asuma. Sasuke can also use any wind techniques Asuma uses to power up his own fire techniques.

9- Itachi would win right off the bat with Susanoo.

10- Sasuke should be able to beat Sarutobi fine. Sarutobi has no unique abilities or speed to counter Sasuke.

[kelv015]

Ok, first of, if I don't comment on any of the match-ups, it's cause its an obvious victory for Sasuke.

#2: Pein said that had Jiraiya known his secret he (Pein) would've lost. Jiraiya is a beast, and even in his normal state is stronger than Oro & Tsunade. I'd have to say Jiraiya takes this one. BUT, Jiraiya is weak to genjutsu, that could be an ''x factor'', but I still think Jiraiya takes it. Sage Mode is just too much for Sasuke to handle.

# 3: Well, this is actually pretty close. Sasuke doesn't know about Samehada's abilities I believe, and if Kisame uses his waterdome Sasuke would be doomed. And Kisame would know how to fight against Sasuke since he ought to know most of the tricks of the sharingan since he's been teamed with Itachi for all these years. So, Kisame takes this one.

# 4: Sasuke was pretty much owning Gaara in the Finals of the Chuunin Exam and the sand automatically protected him back then. Sasuke has grown too much during that time and now. I'd say Sasuke takes this one.

# 5: I, really don't know what to think. Kimi was a beast even with his illness, without it he would be...I dunno :S. I'm not really sure on this one, I'd say it all comes down to Amaterasu since everything else would be almost useless against Kimi and his bloodline...either Sasuke wins, or it's a stalemate.

# 6: Sasuke shouldn't even show up. Sasuke got a fatal blow TWICE during his last fight, and he had Team Hawk giving him back-up. And since this time Hachibi will be expecting Amaterasu, and won't be goofing aroundso much like last time, Hachibi he takes this one with ease.

# 9: This isn't even a fight. Itachi owned Sasuke last time, Itachi wasn't even being serious and was ill to top things off. Itachi takes this one with ease...I think this would be called ''a walk in the park'' for Itachi.

# 10: Well, seeing how Old Sarutobi managed to handle Oro, Hashirama and Tobirama at the same time. On the other hand, Sasuke has Amaterasu. Hiruzen can call on Enma though...I'd say...Hiruzen will get a tie with Sasuke because of his old age and therefore, lack of stamina. Cause young Hiruzen would..well, everyone knows what a young Hiruzen would do to Sasuke.

[LnDRash]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi


Round 01:

Sasuke wins but Tsunade sure would give him a run for his money and I think she even has a chance of winning by using her rebirth seal in some reckless and surprising way. She's one of the most underesimated characters imho. But overall I think Sasuke has the better chances so I will give this one to him.

Round 02:

I'll give it to J-Man. His experience, wide range of jutsu, sage mode, summons and his stamina and chakra pool make him one of the most powerful characters as far as I'am concerned. I have no clue how he would deal with Amaterasu... maybe with deception and stuff, but I just can't imagine J-Man losing to some youngster like Sasuke. Sasuke is not chanceless though.

Round 03:

Pains me to admit this since Sharky is my personal number one but I see no way how he could deal with Amaterasu, he's pretty much chanceless. He's not as cunning and versatile as Jiraiya so I can't imagine how he would win... once he burns its over and he has no way of avoiding that.

Round 04:

Gaara's Sand Armor is a good way of defending against Amaterasu since I imagine he can just shed it like a second skin. As we have seen in his fight with Kimimaro he can turn any landscape into a desert during the fight, giving him more and more advantage with time. That being said I give it to Sasuke regardless, but it will be a very long and tough fight for both of them.

Round 05:

Kimi without illness... I give it to him after a long fight, even though Sasuke would push him to his limits. The reason I think Kimi would win is that without disease his Stamina must be out of the scale and he will outlast Sasuke. I can imagine him growing an armor of bones which he can shed like a second skin to deal with Amaterasu. He can go underground and use his forest of bones to play hit and retreat once Sasuke bringts out Susanoo, making him waste tons of chakra. And finally about Tsukuyomi: Kimi has a Cursed Seal and willpower rivaling the one of Naruto... Tayuya, a character with 5 in Genjutsu was not even the slightest match for him even with support from three other fighters, so I think he can handle it, mainly because Sasuke is nowhere near the Genjutsu Skills of Itachi. The fact that he can grow bones in absolutely weird ways for attacking would also make him kind of unpredictable even for the sharingan.

Round 06:

Lariatooooo! Wheeeeeee-Yeaaahhhh!

No idea though... I will go with Killer Bee since Sasuke was outmatched by far in their first encounter and Bee wasn't even fighting seriously. At least thats my impression. I won't say Sasuke has no chance of winning though.

Round 07:

Sasori wins... one little scratch and its over. Sasuke has no prior knowledge and no senior puppet master aiding him. Basically there are is just to much stuff flying around and Sasori has just too much unpredictable hidden aces up his sleave for Sasuke to not get wounded.

Round 08:

Asuma sets Sasuke on fire with his lighter. In his last moments Sasuke glares at Asuma trying to set him on fire with Amaterasu... but Asuma blocks it with an cigar which he smokes afterwards. Then he slaps Kurenai on her ass and they disappear into the sunset.

Round 09:

Itachi... hands down. Without the illness Itachi is still way too much for Sasuke to handle.

Round 10:

Sasuke wins, Sarutobi is too old, the stamina would be his downfall. But I could imagine he does something to leave Sasuke fucked up baldy before he dies, just like he did with Oro. Maybe he would use the Deathgod to somehow rip his eyes out as a lecture before he dies smilling :P

[xXan]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Sasuke.
Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Jiraiya
Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Sasuke
Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
On the fence here. But probably Sasuke.
Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Sasuke
Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Bee.
Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
No idea lol. This one is to complicated.
Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Sasuke
Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Itachi, defenetly...
Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
If Sarutobi goes full out with the seal from the start he can win. Sarutobi was able to fight off Oro+first+second so hard fight even if Sasuke wins.

[M3J]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Sasuke. Tsunade would be basically immortal, in her own words or Shizune's, but if she gets her head cut off or heart ripped out, I don't see how she can recover from this. Tsunade from what we know is a close-ranged fighter, while Sasuke can do mid and long range, so he'd have more advantage. If Tsunade does land a punch though, Sasuke would not be in good shape, nor if she used her medic jutsu on him to disable him or make it harder for him to fight.


Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Where was it said Jiraiya couldn't dispel genjutsu? He said he sucked at genjutsu, but so far, it can be assumed he sucked at casting genjutsu, not negating it. I find it hard to believe one of the most famous ninja who's lived for this long can't even dispel genjutsu. I'd give this to Jiraiya because he has experience, he's smart, and he has tons of jutsu under his disposal, whose power increases in Sage Mode.



Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Kisame unless Sasuke can find a way to avoid getting his chakra drained dry and can land a hit on Kisame successfully. Kisame is Sasuke's worst enemy due to his ability to absorb chakra.


Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Depends. Gaara is pretty different from his old self, so he'd have a chance, but without the autoshield, he'd have to stay a bit far and make sure he doesn't get Amaterasu'd. Can he get out of genjutsu? If not, then Sasuke may have this, especially since his chidori can pierce sand.


Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Kimimaro because his bones are indestructible. Not even Gaara's heavy sand crushed Kimimaro's bones that he constructed to avoid being crushed to death. I don't think chidori would have as much of an effect, but it's a piercing move as compared to sanddump.



Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Killerbee easily. He managed to OWN Taka without trying much. He nearly killed Sasuke twice and even was a challenge for Juugo and Suigetsu. Killerbeee would most likely be able to beat Sasuke.




Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Not sure. Sasuke's speed can keep him safe here, but Sasori's poison just needs one hit.



Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Sasuke.


Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Itachi, easily. Itachi without MS and Sasuke with EMS, still Itachi easily. Itachi blind and sick not trying his best was still a match for Sasuke.



Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
Sasuke, but it'd be hard and he'd probably walk away with a permanent loss.

[ninjabot]

Just wanna remind everyone the stipulations of the fight: Sasuke has MS, but can't use Susanoo. Consider him the version that fought Hachibi, but with knowledge of his Amaterasu.

[benelori]

Since when was that actually shown? As far as I remember, Itachi is still more superior in this department and at best Sasuke's SHG genjutsu is probably on the same level as Itachi. Nothing was shown regarding it being greater than Itachi's SHG genjutsu.

I think Delbi thought of Genjutsu power, not ability...while Danzou stated that Sasuke's genjutsu ability is lower than Itachi's, Sasuke did manage to break Tsukuyomi albeit with the help of his CS IMO...but still his eyes are stronger and were hinted that they will be stronger than Itachi's

[Aki1991]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
hard to say, i give this to sasu, he has susano against the punches

Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
jman owns him, jman is the strongest chara with itachi behind pein we saw so far

Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
hard, kisame is strong, i give this to sasu becaus of ameterasu

Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
sasu owns gaara, susano

Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
sasu owns him, too, ameterasu

Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
hard to say, i give this to the hachibi

Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
sharingan is here very effective, i give this to sasu, susano saves him form the poison

Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
sasu, hands down

Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
itachi owns him

Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
i think the old kage will own him, he was called the strongest hokage

[xXan]

Round 01: Sasuke vs Tsunade
Sasuke. Tsunade would be basically immortal, in her own words or Shizune's, but if she gets her head cut off or heart ripped out, I don't see how she can recover from this. Tsunade from what we know is a close-ranged fighter, while Sasuke can do mid and long range, so he'd have more advantage. If Tsunade does land a punch though, Sasuke would not be in good shape, nor if she used her medic jutsu on him to disable him or make it harder for him to fight.


Round 02: Sasuke vs Jiraiya (100%, but starts in normal state)
Where was it said Jiraiya couldn't dispel genjutsu? He said he sucked at genjutsu, but so far, it can be assumed he sucked at casting genjutsu, not negating it. I find it hard to believe one of the most famous ninja who's lived for this long can't even dispel genjutsu. I'd give this to Jiraiya because he has experience, he's smart, and he has tons of jutsu under his disposal, whose power increases in Sage Mode.



Round 03: Sasuke vs Kisame
Kisame unless Sasuke can find a way to avoid getting his chakra drained dry and can land a hit on Kisame successfully. Kisame is Sasuke's worst enemy due to his ability to absorb chakra.


Round 04: Sasuke vs Kazekage Gaara (current version)
Depends. Gaara is pretty different from his old self, so he'd have a chance, but without the autoshield, he'd have to stay a bit far and make sure he doesn't get Amaterasu'd. Can he get out of genjutsu? If not, then Sasuke may have this, especially since his chidori can pierce sand.


Round 05: Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (no illness)
Kimimaro because his bones are indestructible. Not even Gaara's heavy sand crushed Kimimaro's bones that he constructed to avoid being crushed to death. I don't think chidori would have as much of an effect, but it's a piercing move as compared to sanddump.



Round 06: Sasuke vs Hachibi (rematch, to the death)
Killerbee easily. He managed to OWN Taka without trying much. He nearly killed Sasuke twice and even was a challenge for Juugo and Suigetsu. Killerbeee would most likely be able to beat Sasuke.




Round 07: Sasuke vs Sasori
Not sure. Sasuke's speed can keep him safe here, but Sasori's poison just needs one hit.



Round 08: Sasuke vs Asuma + Kurenai
Sasuke.


Round 09: Sasuke vs Itachi (both have MS, Itachi has Susanoo, Sasuke is aware of it's existence. Itachi is 100%)
Itachi, easily. Itachi without MS and Sasuke with EMS, still Itachi easily. Itachi blind and sick not trying his best was still a match for Sasuke.



Round 10: Sasuke vs Old Sarutobi
Sasuke, but it'd be hard and he'd probably walk away with a permanent loss.

Huh ? You got that from where ????
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-216-page-13.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-217-page-3.html
That was his best "bone" lol.

First off there is no way Kimi can get pass Susano(to damage Sasuke or Susano itself) and Susano would beat him half to death eventualy. Hell he can't even hit Susano because Sasuke can put amaterasu on it ... Then again Kimi is not even fast enough to dodge 1 amaterasu and that is all it takes.

[ninjabot]

Sasuke doesn't get Susanoo in this thread. Just Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Says so in the first post.

[M3J]

Huh ? You got that from where ????
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-216-page-13.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-217-page-3.html
That was his best "bone" lol.

First off there is no way Kimi can get pass Susano(to damage Sasuke or Susano itself) and Susano would beat him half to death eventualy. Hell he can't even hit Susano because Sasuke can put amaterasu on it ... Then again Kimi is not even fast enough to dodge 1 amaterasu and that is all it takes.

Oh, then I probably got it confused with the anime. I remember Kimimaro saying he made himself some kind of hold against the sand when he was buried in deep with his bones, might have been the anime that said it.

Then he'd probably lose, but wouldn't he be able to get around Amaterasu? Not sure, but Sasuke's Mangekyo gives him the victory here since even without Susano'o, Amaterasu would be enough.

[Rikudou King]

Considering Kimimaro can grow as much and as big as a bone as he needs to do, I think he could counter Amaterasu as long as it isn't a direct shot to his face. He would simply need to grow out and detach the part that caught fire.

[xXan]

Considering Kimimaro can grow as much and as big as a bone as he needs to do, I think he could counter Amaterasu as long as it isn't a direct shot to his face. He would simply need to grow out and detach the part that caught fire.

Sasuke was able to cover the entire 8 tails with Amaterasu. Kimi is also going to be covered in that thing. He can't grow bones to get out of it. Raikage hit Sasuke with his hand to only get it on that spot. If Saskue trows Amaterasu on Kimi then he is going to cover mose of him up in flames... Stop, drop and roll is not going to work:P


Sasuke doesn't get Susanoo in this thread. Just Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Says so in the first post.

Ok my bad. Then he is just going to Amatarasu his but. Also if Kimi get's close to Sasuke he can always use that lighting thing around him to stun Kimi.

[Rikudou King]

Sense Kimimaro can grow bones under his skin over his entire body, He can basically pull off a substitute by making a sort of shell and then detaching from that.

[xXan]

Sense Kimimaro can grow bones under his skin over his entire body, He can basically pull off a substitute by making a sort of shell and then detaching from that.

Lol really? Long time since i read that fight. Can you show me where his done that?

[LnDRash]

He didn't do it but considering the abilities he has shown it shouldn't be much of a problem for him.

We have seen that he could create a Bone Armor underneath his skin and we have seen that he can move any bones outside of his body and the flesh in that area regenerates.

So I think its not far fetched if one assumes he could coat himself in a bone armor and simply reject areas of this armor if needed. It realy should be in range of his abilities.

Just look at what he did to his arm when trying to break through Gaaras Panda.

[Rikudou King]

Not just that, But we have also seen that if the bones are large enough, Kimimaro can move through them like with his Bracken Dance.

[ninjabot]

I wonder what'd happen if Sasuke ran raiton through said bones though...

Eitherway, if the fight came down to close range, I've no reason to believe Sasuke couldn't cut through any of those bone formations with Chidori or Chidorigatana. Combined with Tsukiyomi I don't see Kimimarou winning close range.

[Delbi]

Kimi isn't Killerbee or the Raikage so I don't see Sasuke having much trouble fighting him at close range.

As for him escaping Ameratsu, this is assuming he can do it fast enough not to get roasted if Sasuke is concentrating on him. Kimi's regenerative abilities stop at his bones and skin, he can't regenerate organs and his eyes.

[xXan]

Wow so much asumtions about the bone armour is not even funny... A amaterasu from Sasuke would completly blanket him and end it right there. Even if let's say he can do the armour trick Sasuke can just do it again and again and again ... Or just blanket the area around Kimi so any move he makes he will have to go trough the fire.

Sry but unless you show me Kimi covering himself like that, inluding the eyes, mouth, nouse, etc faster then Sasuke can put amaterasu on him its irrelevant. Also do explain to me how Kimi is going to know about amaterasu before Sasuke can use it because there is no way to build up a armour like that before Amaterasu burns him alive.

Then again Sasuke can also end this fast with 1 genjutsu.... Hell it completly paralyzed even one of those people protecting Raikage back at the summit. After that ... CHIDORI.

[LnDRash]

Even if he can't use the Armor above his skin, which realy makes no sense, we've already seen he can use it underneath his skin and that the tissue above this bone armor can regenerate. That would give him enough time to create his bone forest even if he's on fire.

Then he simply merges with one of those bones, effectively shedding of the flames this way because on the contrary to Kimimaro they can't merge with the bone and thus stay outside.

[xXan]

Even if he can't use the Armor above his skin, which realy makes no sense, we've already seen he can use it underneath his skin and that the tissue above this bone armor can regenerate. That would give him enough time to create his bone forest even if he's on fire.

Then he simply merges with one of those bones, effectively shedding of the flames this way because on the contrary to Kimimaro they can't merge with the bone and thus stay outside.

The temperatures of Amaterasu (something as hot as a star or hot enough to even burn another fire(as stupid as this sounds)) would destroy his internal organs even if there is a bone shield in front of them. Even so can you show me him covering his mouth and eyes? Or puting up that shield in 1-2 seconds? Because Sasuke was able to burn the damn 8 tails in no time.
Amaterasu would cover him completly in flames and there is no way he can do anything before he is dead. The flames would destroy his respiratory system if you can't show me this guy somehow creating bones in his mouth or whatever, the flames would burn of his eyes intantly, unless you can show me this guy puting up a shield on his eyes in 1 second ...
The bones shield (something he never showed capable of doing, nice asumtion but still a asumtion) is a long shot. Hell he can't even move if he does what you guys are proposing and Sasuke can chidori his but easy.

Now we have something that was able to burn down the 8 tails vs something that is up as a complete asumtion. Even if he can create bones and discard them there is no indication that creating so much at the same time is posible for him(around his body). I can give you a few reasons why he should not be able to do it but meh no point i don't like debating over asumtion.

PS. There is no indication he could heal his entire body like that. For all we know he could be left cripled for some time after doing something of that magnitude (ripping his muscles, flesh, tendons etc). Kimi never showed to have that level of regeneration ffs... Best proof is his medical condition.

[LnDRash]

He created the bone armor underneath his skin and it didn't rip his muscles, he was also able to move with this armor. his eyes and mouth would only be an problem if he gets hit straight into his face... could happen but doesn't have to happen, could go either way.

And Amaterasu isn't that destructive, Raikage's arm was burning slowly, he was in no way engulfed by flames in just a few seconds and that Samurai that took a direct hit from Sasuke's Amaterassu was also saved because of his Samurai Armor, so its in no way an instant kill.

[xXan]

He created the bone armor underneath his skin and it didn't rip his muscles, he was also able to move with this armor. his eyes and mouth would only be an problem if he gets hit straight into his face... could happen but doesn't have to happen, could go either way.

And Amaterasu isn't that destructive, Raikage's arm was burning slowly, he was in no way engulfed by flames in just a few seconds and that Samurai that took a direct hit from Sasuke's Amaterassu was also saved because of his Samurai Armor, so its in no way an instant kill.

The bone armour was never used to completly cover his body. If he leaves holes open on it the flames would get to his muscles. Now removing the bones trough his skin if it cover his entire inner body would mean destroying everyting startin from his bones. So all that i said would happen. If he puts bones all over his joints again he can't move that joint, the reason should be obvious. Amaterasu was able to cover the 8 tails so covering him in flames its easy. Kimi only put out bones out of his body like spikes. A hole body in armour is a diferent thing.

Raikage is a very bad example because he got a indirect hit (he hit a already existing amaterasu with his hand) and had a shiled covering his entire body.
As for the samurai, its about the same thing, Sasuke never focused his eyes on him or expanded the flames. His target was the raikage.

Look here, Danzo is completly surounded by flames:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-477-page-7.html
This is a ilusion but it replicates the real amaterasu, again danzo is surounded in flames:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-478-page-1.html
Heh it was enough to even stop the 8 tails:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-415-page-3.html
Madara engulfed in flames, FACE FIRST
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-397-page-13.html

Yes its not a instant kill but Kimi is only going to have a couple of seconds to defend vs something he has no idea what it is or how you can counter it. You guys are making this asumtion knowing how amaterasu works but this dude? Somehow finding out how in a couple of seconds and then doing something he never showed dooing before? This thing is going to go on his face and finish him off even if he does that.

Then again Sasuke can use genjutsu on Kimi, completly imobilize him and finishing him off however he wants.
I can't belive people are giving a shot to kimi based on a asumtion. On something he never showed doing (and only asuming he can because he can do similar things with his bones) and somehow knowing what amaterasu is and how to counter it.

[chilibun]

Honestly, Kimi gets way too much recognition. His only achievements are beating up an injured Lee and fighting evenly with Gaara before timeskip. All the characters, especially Sasuke and Naruto, have improved so much since then. A base Sasuke with a chidori-katana can probably slice him up. Kimi's bones are said to be harder than steel, but we've already seen it shatter against Gaara's sand. Kishi's style has changed since then with the focus of power being more chakra based.

[xXan]

Honestly, Kimi gets way too much recognition. His only achievements are beating up an injured Lee and fighting evenly with Gaara before timeskip. All the characters, especially Sasuke and Naruto, have improved so much since then. A base Sasuke with a chidori-katana can probably slice him up. Kimi's bones are said to be harder than steel, but we've already seen it shatter against Gaara's sand. Kishi's style has changed since then with the focus of power being more chakra based.

Well to be fair it was not just any sand. It was sand+chakra+the most potent minerals in the ground and all of them where compressed togeder at very hight presure.

But yeah Sasuke should defenetly be able to slice him up.

[beasticon999]

sasuke wins all these fights in a land slide,jiraiya cant stand him....the toughest battle there is Itachi nd i would probably give it to him on the basis that he is more skilled than Itachi in ninjutsu which will certainly be their battle since he can counter itachi genjutsus..wow sasuke is awesome...whoever says Jiraiya will stand him should please review his facts.If iraiya is 2 battle sasuke while nt yet in sage mode unlike the rennigan,the mangekyou is instant death nd certainly dats jiraiya's fate,only in sage mode is he a match but still he will lose...ciao dudes.