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View Full Version : Fantasy Killer Bee vs Itachi Uchiha



Weapon_X
April 25, 2009, 07:37 AM
Conditions -

Itachi Uchiha is healthy. ( As in that he doesn't cough up blood randomly, but he still has his blindness effect due to his overusing MS)

They are fighting at Unryaikyo Mountain.

An all out battle, no rules, fight to the death.

Who would win?

firesalamander
April 25, 2009, 07:42 AM
Can't see past Itachi. Amateratsu, Susanoo, the sword, the mirror. Hachibi would have no chance

chess4
April 25, 2009, 08:54 AM
itachi he was arguable the second strongest member in akatsuki and he was a straight dawg. killerbee is strong but we havent seen his full arsenal, but if i had to choose itachi

jdw
April 25, 2009, 09:22 AM
If Itachi used Susano'o and the sword of totsuka, Bee's only chance would be to run away until Itachi ran out of chakra, passed, out, and was unable to move. Then Bee could return and take a picture of himself standing over Itachi's body.

THM Nindo
April 25, 2009, 10:51 AM
Wealking Sasuke almost got him (That's what Hachibi said), so there's no way Itachi would have missed it.

Hachibi would have been death 30 seconds after the start of the fight.

jdw
April 25, 2009, 11:26 AM
Those who voted for Bee, show yourselves and share some reasons!

yonjuushichi
April 25, 2009, 12:35 PM
Oh come on guys, why starting such a nonsense thread...
Kishi is the biggest fan of Uchihas.....he wouldn't let anyone kill Itachi or Sasuke unless it was them both who kill each other :P

scoobysvk
April 25, 2009, 01:25 PM
it is actually a hard question. Itachy was indeed strong nevertheless he is not as strong as people make him. It is obvious that madara and pain are stronger than Itachy and we dont know about the rest of aka.
Killer bee was not properly introduce and will probably have a great role in Naruto life. I believe he will become Naruto s next mentor and that means he is much stronger than people think.

jdw
April 25, 2009, 01:28 PM
it is actually a hard question. Itachy was indeed strong nevertheless he is not as strong as people make him. It is obvious that madara and pain are stronger than Itachy and we dont know about the rest of aka.
Killer bee was not properly introduce and will probably have a great role in Naruto life. I believe he will become Naruto s next mentor and that means he is much stronger than people think.

How is it obvious Pain was stronger than Itachi? Itachi was never concerned with Pain, only Madara.

scoobysvk
April 25, 2009, 01:54 PM
It looks like Madara is on a different level, nevertheless pain is hell of a strong sinobi. Have you forgot how easily jiraya was beaten by pain?
Itachi was considering Jiraya as his equal.
[hr]
anyway,
the truth is that we dont know anything about Killer Bee so it is hard to comment on that.

jdw
April 25, 2009, 02:18 PM
It looks like Madara is on a different level, nevertheless pain is hell of a strong sinobi. Have you forgot how easily jiraya was beaten by pain?
Itachi was considering Jiraya as his equal.
<hr noshade size="1">
anyway,
the truth is that we dont know anything about Killer Bee so it is hard to comment on that.

Didn't seem to me he was beaten easily at all. He defeated the three enemies he knew to exist and was beaten when 3 more enemies emerged to resurrect the first three and increase the total to 6. Pain won the fight, clearly, but Jiraiya was at such a complete disadvantage that his success was admirable. It takes nothing away from Pain's victory to say that.

Even if Itachi did consider Jiraiya his equal, that means nothing in a battle scenario against someone else. Also consider that Pain himself said he would have lost if Jiraiya knew his secret, if we are considering words. Jiraiya did well in my book.

As for Itachi and Bee, Bee is clearly strong but susano'o and the sword of totsuka are seemingly dominant techniques. Perhaps they can be beaten and we may see. Bee did break tsukiyomi and escaped amaterasu, so you never know.

scoobysvk
April 25, 2009, 02:38 PM
Didn't seem to me he was beaten easily at all. He defeated the three enemies he knew to exist and was beaten when 3 more enemies emerged to resurrect the first three and increase the total to 6. Pain won the fight, clearly, but Jiraiya was at such a complete disadvantage that his success was admirable. It takes nothing away from Pain's victory to say that.

Even if Itachi did consider Jiraiya his equal, that means nothing in a battle scenario against someone else. Also consider that Pain himself said he would have lost if Jiraiya knew his secret, if we are considering words. Jiraiya did well in my book.

As for Itachi and Bee, Bee is clearly strong but susano'o and the sword of totsuka are seemingly dominant techniques. Perhaps they can be beaten and we may see. Bee did break tsukiyomi and escaped amaterasu, so you never know.

You are right, it was not an easy fight for pain. Nevertheless, Pain showed his real strengh with Naruto. He didnt use the gravity at all against Jiraya and personaly i believe it is by far the most powerfull skill he has.
Jiraya was a very strong sinobi and personaly one of my favorit character but i believe that pain is stronger than him.
As you said, in battle senario it can vary a lot and because we dont know much about Killer Bee than this thread is compilacted.

ninjabot
April 25, 2009, 10:24 PM
Itachi. Sasuke was able to trace Hachibi easily, but didn't have Itachi's speed or taijutsu skills to make good use of his perceptive powers. And unlike Sasuke, Itachi would've used Genjutsu at the very beginning of the fight to subdue him, which could give him the time to figure out Hachibi's trick for escaping Genjutsu.

Through bunshin trickery Itachi gains the time needed to set up a surprise Amaterasu (that he doesn't turn off to spare his life). In the event that Hachibi goes multi-tails before this happens, Itachi can still keep his eyes on Hachibi (Sasuke did it), and set up Susanoo.

Susanoo doesn't equal an auto victory, but it makes things alot easier for Itachi.

street_san
April 25, 2009, 10:38 PM
Hmmm, tough decision. For real I don't know because Killer Bee was a hell of opponent for Sasuke. If Sasuke didn't have all his "nakamas" with him, he would've lost badly.

Amateratsu and Tsukiyomi are ones of the strongest Jutsu that Itachi have. Considering that Sasuke overcomed the Tsukiyomi, and that Kille Bee overcomed Sasuke Tsukiyomi, we can presume that Bee would've be able to overcome Sasuke Tsukiyomi.

Secondo, Bee did find a way to escape from the Amateratsu. It wasn't easy but he manage to escape, soo even if Itachi use it, Bee would've still be able to avoid his Amateratsu.

As for Susano'o, Itachi won't use this technique recklessly. This jutsu affect his eyes and takes a lot of chakra (just like Tsukiyomi or Amateratsu, and with all other jutsu he would've use first (like Fireball Jutsu, etc...)), soo if Bee push Itachi enough to make him have no other choice of using the Susano'o, that'll mean that Bee is a hell of opponent. And if Itachi manage to beat Bee, well he will be coughing blood not because of his illness, but damage to his body because of the fight.

And...



Susanoo doesn't equal an auto victory, but it makes things alot easier for Itachi.

Amen !

But if I had to choose between those two....I would've take, but at the end coughing blood and half-dead, Itachi.....even if I prefer my old rapper Jinchuuriki xD :D:D

fayezboy
April 25, 2009, 11:03 PM
i think itachi will win, we shouldnt always assume that itachi will use his ms always,at least in the beginning of the fight , he can fight without it ,he is so skilled, he used his ms against sasuke cuz he wasnt fighting sasuke seriously ,

street_san
April 25, 2009, 11:10 PM
i think itachi will win, we shouldnt always assume that itachi will use his ms always,at least in the beginning of the fight , he can fight without it ,he is so skilled, he used his ms against sasuke cuz he wasnt fighting sasuke seriously ,

....Sasuke was fighting Killer Bee seriously and barely manage to "defeat" him. So if Itachi fights with Bee, he WILL have to use he's MS

~Joshua~
April 26, 2009, 01:15 AM
....Sasuke was fighting Killer Bee seriously and barely manage to "defeat" him. So if Itachi fights with Bee, he WILL have to use he's MS

Sasuke wasn't fighting Killer Bee in the beginning of the fight seriously. He was told not to kill him so he had to hold back a little bit. Even Suigetsu complained that they should fight to kill.

jdw
April 26, 2009, 01:27 AM
....Sasuke was fighting Killer Bee seriously and barely manage to "defeat" him. So if Itachi fights with Bee, he WILL have to use he's MS

Did Bee and Sasuke fight again? Link me to the second fight. When did Sasuke "defeat" Bee?
[hr]

Sasuke wasn't fighting Killer Bee in the beginning of the fight seriously. He was told not to kill him so he had to hold back a little bit. Even Suigetsu complained that they should fight to kill.

If we accept that for argument sake, he still desperately needed a phoenix down after he started fighting seriously.

~Joshua~
April 26, 2009, 01:36 AM
Did Bee and Sasuke fight again? Link me to the second fight. When did Sasuke "defeat" Bee?
<hr noshade size="1">


If we accept that for argument sake, he still desperately needed a phoenix down after he started fighting seriously.

He did need help, but fighting non-seriously in the beginning of a fight makes a vast difference.

jdw
April 26, 2009, 02:04 AM
He did need help, but fighting non-seriously in the beginning of a fight makes a vast difference.

It makes a difference, fine. Being dumb in the beginning of a fight isn't a good point. That was his choice. You can't penalize his opponent for his stupidity. You fight the opponent how he presents himself. He didn't show anything to indicate the fight could have ended differently. Phoenix down required. He might as well walk around with a defibrillator and an IV.

Weapon_X
April 26, 2009, 02:13 AM
Now I will give my opinion. I vote for Killer Bee.

Reasons -

Itachi always starts a fight with Genjutsu. He always uses Genjutsu first as an option for attack, rather then ninjutsu or taijutsu. Killer Bee can escape Genjutsu and Tsykiyomi. The 8 Tails would disrupt his chakra. So Genjutsu is out of the question.

Killer Bee has already fooled Sasuke by escaping Amaterasu. I'm sure that he can escape Amaterasu in battle just like how Sasuke used Kawarimi if he is in Rari Atto state. Or if he is in beast form. So Amaterasu is out of question.

With his Taijutsu skills,his physical strength and taijutsu skill is immense. He is easily capable of disarming a skilled opponent with his bare hands, and proficiently wielded Suigetsu's huge sword seconds after picking it up. His defense is very strong as well, receiving a solid kick to the neck from Sasuke only to drop his sword and begin writing lyrics, and escaping unscathed after being shocked with Sasuke's Chidori and hit from behind with Jugo's rocket-augmented attack.

Itachi's taijutsu wouldn't be able to match that of Killer Bee's. Sasuke couldn't read his sword attacks, it would be hard for Itachi to read his attacks as well because of Killer Bee's immense speed.

Now for Susano'o. Itachi's ultimate and strongest Jutsu. Just as Jdw said, Killer Bee just can keep running around the battlefield until Itachi runs out of chakra. Susano'o has to be around Itachi. If Killer Bee is at an distance, then Susano'o would not be able to reach him. As far as I know, itachi would have to get atleast in range for Susano'o to attack Killer Bee. Itachi would run out of chakra by maintaining Susano'o for long periods of time, thus making Killer bee have an opening for an attack.

Also Itachi won't have any phoenix downs(Lmao Jdw) or lifelines in this battle against Killer Bee just like Sasuke did.

Obviosuly there are going to be some parts where Itachi has the lead, not saying the battle will be 100% Killer Bee. But at the end, Killer Bee will be the victor.

Hope to see more reasons and arguements for who will win from more posts. :)

That was just my opinion, correct me if I was wrong in anything.

P.S. As Jdw said, give reasons for why Killer Bee would win. It would help other arguements for people who say Killer Bee wins.

Shaunlim
April 26, 2009, 03:21 AM
He did need help, but fighting non-seriously in the beginning of a fight makes a vast difference.

Let me just add in for both parties here.

Sasuke and co.

-Wasn't serious at the start
-Sasuke apparently was still injured a bit

Hachibi

-Wasn't serious at the start and frankly speaking he looks like he wasn't even trying hard the entire battle.
-Just summoned his bijuu before the fight with Sasuke which apparently takes a lot of his strength according to the bijuu.

So, bottom line is people need to stop making up excuses for Sasuke. Both Sasuke and Hachibi had their own handicaps in that battle and frankly, we haven't seen Hachibi fight enough to determine his arsenal.

As for this fight, I say Itachi win with major difficulties and him almost dying and in a worst case scenario, he might lose. And Itachi would definately need his Susano'o for this.

LiL_JiRiyAya
April 26, 2009, 03:43 AM
itachi is skilled as hell and i don't think itachi would have cut the flames out so soon

Phoenix946
April 26, 2009, 03:49 AM
Let me just add in for both parties here.

Sasuke and co.

-Wasn't serious at the start
-Sasuke apparently was still injured a bit

Hachibi

-Wasn't serious at the start and frankly speaking he looks like he wasn't even trying hard the entire battle.
-Just summoned his bijuu before the fight with Sasuke which apparently takes a lot of his strength according to the bijuu.

So, bottom line is people need to stop making up excuses for Sasuke. Both Sasuke and Hachibi had their own handicaps in that battle and frankly, we haven't seen Hachibi fight enough to determine his arsenal.

As for this fight, I say Itachi win with major difficulties and him almost dying and in a worst case scenario, he might lose. And Itachi would definately need his Susano'o for this.

My thoughts exactly :) Sasuke got ridiculed and would have died twice if not for his team. Itachi not being sick (according to thread starter) gave him the edge for me, but Bee would definitely put up one hell of a fight seeing how he brutalized Sasuke and Sasuke and Itachi have pretty similar jutsu.

DarkManSharingan32
April 26, 2009, 02:58 PM
Bulls don't run away.
They charge at their opponents.


It's amazingly more likely for Hachibi to rush the Susanoo and get skewred, than for him to run away. I mean... it's not as is he KNOWS how Susanoo works.

Delbi
April 26, 2009, 04:16 PM
Bulls don't run away.
They charge at their opponents.


It's amazingly more likely for Hachibi to rush the Susanoo and get skewred, than for him to run away. I mean... it's not as is he KNOWS how Susanoo works.

Very true, Killerbee's strategy and temperment have shown that he likes to bash through his enemies. If he tried to do that to Sussano, he'd be dead in an instant.

En Yang Ji
April 26, 2009, 04:17 PM
Now I will give my opinion. I vote for Killer Bee.

Reasons -

Itachi always starts a fight with Genjutsu. He always uses Genjutsu first as an option for attack, rather then ninjutsu or taijutsu. Killer Bee can escape Genjutsu and Tsykiyomi. The 8 Tails would disrupt his chakra. So Genjutsu is out of the question.

Killer Bee has already fooled Sasuke by escaping Amaterasu. I'm sure that he can escape Amaterasu in battle just like how Sasuke used Kawarimi if he is in Rari Atto state. Or if he is in beast form. So Amaterasu is out of question.

With his Taijutsu skills,his physical strength and taijutsu skill is immense. He is easily capable of disarming a skilled opponent with his bare hands, and proficiently wielded Suigetsu's huge sword seconds after picking it up. His defense is very strong as well, receiving a solid kick to the neck from Sasuke only to drop his sword and begin writing lyrics, and escaping unscathed after being shocked with Sasuke's Chidori and hit from behind with Jugo's rocket-augmented attack.

Itachi's taijutsu wouldn't be able to match that of Killer Bee's. Sasuke couldn't read his sword attacks, it would be hard for Itachi to read his attacks as well because of Killer Bee's immense speed.

Now for Susano'o. Itachi's ultimate and strongest Jutsu. Just as Jdw said, Killer Bee just can keep running around the battlefield until Itachi runs out of chakra. Susano'o has to be around Itachi. If Killer Bee is at an distance, then Susano'o would not be able to reach him. As far as I know, itachi would have to get atleast in range for Susano'o to attack Killer Bee. Itachi would run out of chakra by maintaining Susano'o for long periods of time, thus making Killer bee have an opening for an attack.

Also Itachi won't have any phoenix downs(Lmao Jdw) or lifelines in this battle against Killer Bee just like Sasuke did.

Obviosuly there are going to be some parts where Itachi has the lead, not saying the battle will be 100% Killer Bee. But at the end, Killer Bee will be the victor.

Hope to see more reasons and arguements for who will win from more posts. :)

That was just my opinion, correct me if I was wrong in anything.

P.S. As Jdw said, give reasons for why Killer Bee would win. It would help other arguements for people who say Killer Bee wins.

I wouldn't count out genjutsu. It's true the 8 tails can break killer bee out of a genjutsu, but he would have to know it's a genjutsu.

Itachi could make a genjutsu that would be hard for both of them to notice. Let's say all Itachi did was make a illusionary version of himself that made the same movements as himself, but only a bit faster. Killer Bee would only see the illusion and the illusionary Itachi would be in front of Itachi.

Killer Bee's timing would be off and he would be wide open. He would kill the illusion and a second later Itachi would cut off his head. Killer Bee wouldn't see the real Itachi and the 8 tails wouldn't have any reason to believe it's a genjutsu until it's too late, because both the Illusion and Itachi made similar movements.

or

Itachi could wait for Killer Bee to attack and make it look like he dodged left, through genjutsu, and dodge right. Then he could quickly throw a kunai at Killer bee's head.

- Susanoo could still hit, for the reasons DMS stated.

Delbi
April 26, 2009, 04:18 PM
My thoughts exactly :) Sasuke got ridiculed and would have died twice if not for his team. Itachi not being sick (according to thread starter) gave him the edge for me, but Bee would definitely put up one hell of a fight seeing how he brutalized Sasuke and Sasuke and Itachi have pretty similar jutsu.

While this all may be well and true, Itachi is a pro at using Ameratsu, the jutsu that nearly killed Killerbee.

Granted, Killerbee knows what the jutsu does, but he doesn't have a way to dodge it, stop it, or negate it in any way. Itachi could kill him with that, and if he gets in trouble he could use Sussano.

Phoenix946
April 26, 2009, 05:29 PM
While this all may be well and true, Itachi is a pro at using Ameratsu, the jutsu that nearly killed Killerbee.

Granted, Killerbee knows what the jutsu does, but he doesn't have a way to dodge it, stop it, or negate it in any way. Itachi could kill him with that, and if he gets in trouble he could use Sussano.

Yeah Itachi definitely has some incredible jutsu at his disposal. I wouldn't know what Bee would do against them except run away, but heck, we're talking the 8-tails here. With a Bijuu that can't be supressed by Sharingan. And he has shown to be able to run away :p

(You understood I voted for Itachi right?)

Shaunlim
April 26, 2009, 09:32 PM
Bulls don't run away.
They charge at their opponents.


It's amazingly more likely for Hachibi to rush the Susanoo and get skewred, than for him to run away. I mean... it's not as is he KNOWS how Susanoo works.

Thank god Killerbee isn't a bull then......seriously, any decent ninja would know how to back off a while and see how things work when their opponent suddenly summons out a huge avatar with sword and shield.

Unless someone wants to show me how Killberbee is the type of ninja that just rushes into attacks without thinking at all.


I wouldn't count out genjutsu. It's true the 8 tails can break killer bee out of a genjutsu, but he would have to know it's a genjutsu.

Itachi could make a genjutsu that would be hard for both of them to notice. Let's say all Itachi did was make a illusionary version of himself that made the same movements as himself, but only a bit faster. Killer Bee would only see the illusion and the illusionary Itachi would be in front of Itachi.

Killer Bee's timing would be off and he would be wide open. He would kill the illusion and a second later Itachi would cut off his head. Killer Bee wouldn't see the real Itachi and the 8 tails wouldn't have any reason to believe it's a genjutsu until it's too late, because both the Illusion and Itachi made similar movements.

or

Itachi could wait for Killer Bee to attack and make it look like he dodged left, through genjutsu, and dodge right. Then he could quickly throw a kunai at Killer bee's head.

- Susanoo could still hit, for the reasons DMS stated.

As shown for quite a lot of times already, a bijuu can sense the invasion of chakra. So Hachibi(the bijuu) would know if Killerbee is put inside a genjutsu. Thus, helping him out.


I'm not saying Killerbee will win here but people make it sound like he is some fodder ninja that would die that easily.........

DarkManSharingan32
April 26, 2009, 10:16 PM
Shaunlim...
Killerbee steamrolls his opponents... from what we have seen so far anyways. He did nothin but stand still for a few seconds, and then bullrush Sasuke and his crew. I'd go through the motions of linking examples... but then I'd be providing nearly the entirety of 2-3 chapters.

This is the same guy who released his Bijuu form when he didn't have to... (and it doesn't help that he actually tranformed into that Bulltopus).
---

I don't believe it's in his nature to sit and be pensive...
Shikamaru, Sasuke, Naruto (to some degree)... Kakashi, Itachi.... Yes.

Killerbee...
I don't think so.

Shaunlim
April 26, 2009, 10:32 PM
Shaunlim...
Killerbee steamrolls his opponents... from what we have seen so far anyways. He did nothin but stand still for a few seconds, and then bullrush Sasuke and his crew. I'd go through the motions of linking examples... but then I'd be providing nearly the entirety of 2-3 chapters.

This is the same guy who released his Bijuu form when he didn't have to... (and it doesn't help that he actually tranformed into that Bulltopus).
---

I don't believe it's in his nature to sit and be pensive...
Shikamaru, Sasuke, Naruto (to some degree)... Kakashi, Itachi.... Yes.

Killerbee...
I don't think so.

It is entirely different....nothing and I mean nothing that he have shown shows that he just rushes into attacks. In fact, he have shown to be rather analytical. Such as observing Karin's ability. Even Sasuke's chidori kusunagi was countered efficiently without having experiencing it before.
And yes, he have shown to back away as well. Him avoiding Juugo's attack and fleeing to the other side of the mountain shows this as well.

jdw
April 26, 2009, 10:39 PM
It is entirely different....nothing and I mean nothing that he have shown shows that he just rushes into attacks. In fact, he have shown to be rather analytical. Such as observing Karin's ability. Even Sasuke's chidori kusunagi was countered efficiently without having experiencing it before.
And yes, he have shown to back away as well. Him avoiding Juugo's attack and fleeing to the other side of the mountain shows this as well.

I have to agree with you. Bee wasn't shown to be as reckless as people are making him seem. As for using the 8-tailed form before he had to, who says people have to wait until they are forced to use a jutsu to use a jutsu? I actually hate those kinds of fights where people have endless surprises and just trade tricks until someone passes out. Bee just tried to end the damn fight ASAP so he could go back to writing rhymes :tem

KnuckleheadedNinja
April 26, 2009, 11:27 PM
I'm predicting that Itachi win this fight. But i'm also predicting that the fight will result in both Ninjas death. I think the fight will be won(or lost) on Susanoo. I don't see anything else that Itachi has defeating Killerbee. And i think Killerbee will have the advantage before Itachi use Susanoo. I think Itachi will be well advise to use Susanoo early in the fight, not as a last resort. I can see Killerbee wining the fight once Itachi try to use Tsukoymi on him. He can just blow Itachi's chest out like he did against Sasuke, once Itachi is holding his eyes from the pain of having Tsukuyomi broken.

And Killerbee will be well advise not to fully transform against Susanoo. If he doesn't fully transform, i don't see the sword of tosuka hitting him. But the logical action to him will be to transform. He will try to overpower Susanoo with his bijuu mode, this will allow for the Sword of Tosuka to hit him. I only see the Sword of Tosuka been capable of hitting big monsters, i don't see it hitting Ninjas, at least not one with some speed and dodging ability. That's why i think Killerbee will be well advise to not fully transform. But unless you know about Susanoo, the logical thing for someone with a monstrous power like Killerbee will be to go Bijuu Mode and try to overpower it.

I think Itachi will die from the injure he will suffer before using Susanoo and the effect of Susanoo.

So overall i think both Ninjas have a chance of wining the fight, but i think at the end of the day Itachi will come out as the victor. But the victory will cost him his life as well.

Spike Spiegal
April 27, 2009, 12:40 AM
Agreed, Looking at both fighters, Bee has Itachi beat in most categories, I'm not sure how the match would conclude when Itachi is forced to use Susanoo, and, he will be forced to use it, It would be an easy decision if Itachi wasn't at 100%. I'd have to read others arguments on the subject to properly decide, problem is, alot of peoples thoughts are too biased to be taken seriously in this thread.Ex: Itachi winning in seconds or Itachi winning without the use of MS.

Delbi
April 27, 2009, 01:21 AM
Without knowing how strong Itachi is when he is healthy and actually wants to kill someone, its sort of hard to gauge him in a fight like this.

I mean, he could of been even faster than he already was when he was sick, Zetsu seemed to think as much anyway when he says he should have easily been able to dodge Sasuke's attacks.

Itachi can layer genjutsu like he did against Sasuke, and if he traps Bee in a genjutsu like he did Naruto, Bee wouldn't even notice what is happening, and thus could easily be killed by Itachi.

In any event, I think people are understimating Itachi's Ameratsu, which he uses for both offensive and defensive purposes.

He could summon it directly on top of Killerbee which would mean trouble for our favorite ninja rapper.

He could also use it as a defensive type barrier, surrounding himself with it.

Granted this take a lot out of him, but he has shown extreme mastery over the jutsu.

If by some slim chance Killerbee can survive Ameratsu if he gets hit, Itachi would have to use Sussano. Now, some question Sussano's speed, but I think it moves extremely fast. It killed Orochimaru in an instance, I mean Orochimaru couldn't even finish speaking before he was skewered, he didn't even attempt to dodge it. But it wold certainly be easier for Itachi to attack Bee while he is fully transformed with the sword, rather than when he is small.

Itachi takes this, and if he is fully healthy, should live.

Spike Spiegal
April 27, 2009, 02:19 AM
Without knowing how strong Itachi is when he is healthy and actually wants to kill someone, its sort of hard to gauge him in a fight like this.

I mean, he could of been even faster than he already was when he was sick, Zetsu seemed to think as much anyway when he says he should have easily been able to dodge Sasuke's attacks.

Well Zetsu only made the reference a couple of times during the match so, we cant assume that, whatever the condition that effected Itachi, was present or as potent throughout the entire fight, it could have only been apparent in the instances in which Zetsu could see a difference, also we aren't even sure if his speed or stats were effected at all, it's much more plausible that the reason Itachi couldn't dodge the attacks properly was due to his decreasing eyesight that was present even before the fight.


Itachi can layer genjutsu like he did against Sasuke, and if he traps Bee in a genjutsu like he did Naruto, Bee wouldn't even notice what is happening, and thus could easily be killed by Itachi.

It's been discussed to death but, I'm a firm believer that the Realism of a genjutsu won't help against a Jinchuuriki who has cooperation with his bijuu, Bee is in the Genjutsu but, he isn't the one who's breaking it, The Jinchuriki doesn't have to notice what the Bijuu would automatically know, since he is his partner/observer, who is also one in the same, and can feel the incoming chakra affecting the bijuu's host.

Genjutsu will only be effective for fractions of a second, unless a user can use a genjutsu powerful enough that the bijuu can't break, but, since Bee escaped Tsukiyomi...it's like zetsu stated himself, once the most powerful Gen can be broken there is no point in using any other/"lesser" Genjutsu.


In any event, I think people are understimating Itachi's Ameratsu, which he uses for both offensive and defensive purposes.

He could summon it directly on top of Killerbee which would mean trouble for our favorite ninja rapper.

He could also use it as a defensive type barrier, surrounding himself with it.

Granted this take a lot out of him, but he has shown extreme mastery over the jutsu.

I'm not sure what you mean about barrier, the only thing Itachi could do is put a ring around himself but that's not a barrier and it wouldn't attack the opponent since it wasn't its target.

Amaterasu converges to its target and is fast, but not instant, and has been shown to be avoided, although for a very short amount of time by Sasuke.


If by some slim chance Killerbee can survive Ameratsu if he gets hit, Itachi would have to use Sussano. Now, some question Sussano's speed, but I think it moves extremely fast. It killed Orochimaru in an instance, I mean Orochimaru couldn't even finish speaking before he was skewered, he didn't even attempt to dodge it. But it wold certainly be easier for Itachi to attack Bee while he is fully transformed with the sword, rather than when he is small.

Itachi takes this, and if he is fully healthy, should live.

The chances of avoiding Amaterasu isn't slim, since atm, he's 1 for 1.
You said it yourself, Oro never attempted or had the intention to dodge the attack, Bee's faster than Oro anyway. I agree that it would be easier for Itachi to land a blow if he fully transformed but, who's to say it would have the same effect on Bee if he cuts his Bijuu, even if by some chance he could connect?

Destined_One
April 27, 2009, 03:58 AM
This is my first post btw:p

Personally, I can't go past Itachi... here are my reason's...

firstly the guy manipulated an entire fight with a ninja of the caliber of sasuke... he pushed him every way in which he wanted, in an attempt to force Oro out, thus defeating him and freeing his brother once and for all.. furthermore we have to remember he has done this not only sick, dieing, blind, but also without a portion of his power in which he gifted to our lovable protagonist Naruto..

Also Sasuke fought Bee with a power up he had only just received.. literally learning the ropes as he went... now it would be rather imprudent to compare Itachi and sasuke's use of MS.. seeing as Itachi has been using it since he slaughtered his entire clan all those years ago... lastly Madara only decided to move on Konoha after Itachi's death (In which he promised him he would leave konoha alone), someone as fabled as Madara has been made out to be... possible final villain etc to even be worried about Itachi just adds to his frightening yet unknown potential..

Although Bee's physical trait's would exceed Itachi's with the added power of his bijuu, we have to remember that Itachi is no slug... he has been made out to be a very fast shinobi, and DB stat's back that up... also Sauske say's that bee only attacks in straight line's... making it easy to dodge whilst he has sharingan activated (which fail's as bee attacks Juugo)... it is only his surprise escape from tsykuomi that leads to sasuke's complete owning lol but we mustn't forget that there is definitely a difference in ability between the two brothers, experience, jutsu and at this stage even skill..(Maybe physical gifts as well if he is healthy)

Im not beating down upon bee, coz I agree he is in the upper tier of ninja in the narutoverse, Im just saying that from what we have seen of itachi his potential is scary... Kirabi was barely able to escape Ametarasu the first time, in which sasuke assisted by extinguishing it... with an itachi with the intent to kill.. and a fail safe as powered as susanoo my bet is with him

Spike Spiegal
April 28, 2009, 03:49 AM
This is my first post btw:p

Personally, I can't go past Itachi... here are my reason's...

firstly the guy manipulated an entire fight with a ninja of the caliber of sasuke... he pushed him every way in which he wanted, in an attempt to force Oro out, thus defeating him and freeing his brother once and for all.. furthermore we have to remember he has done this not only sick, dieing, blind, but also without a portion of his power in which he gifted to our lovable protagonist Naruto..

First off, Itachi didn't manipulate the entire fight, I don't know where you get that idea from.

Second, Itachi took medication to help his sickness and to postpone his death. we aren't sure If Itachi was even affected or to what extent, by his condition, but I would assume, that the medicine kept the effects from being drastic.

also, Itachi was only blind at the very end of the fight, and it was from his extensive use of his sharingan during the match.Again, we don't know what Itachi gave Naruto or if it affected his abilities in the fight with Sasuke in any way.


Also Sasuke fought Bee with a power up he had only just received.. literally learning the ropes as he went... now it would be rather imprudent to compare Itachi and sasuke's use of MS.. seeing as Itachi has been using it since he slaughtered his entire clan all those years ago... lastly Madara only decided to move on Konoha after Itachi's death (In which he promised him he would leave konoha alone), someone as fabled as Madara has been made out to be... possible final villain etc to even be worried about Itachi just adds to his frightening yet unknown potential..

Itachi didn't slaughter his entire clan, Madara had a big hand in the Massacre as well.

It's not known that Madara was even worried about Itachi, he made a promise to his student to quell his fears, and he honored them (to a point),if Itachi had a chance of defeating Madara he would have taken it, he also wouldn't have stated that he would need the EMS to do so.


Although Bee's physical trait's would exceed Itachi's with the added power of his bijuu, we have to remember that Itachi is no slug... he has been made out to be a very fast shinobi, and DB stat's back that up... also Sauske say's that bee only attacks in straight line's... making it easy to dodge whilst he has sharingan activated (which fail's as bee attacks Juugo)... it is only his surprise escape from tsykuomi that leads to sasuke's complete owning lol but we mustn't forget that there is definitely a difference in ability between the two brothers, experience, jutsu and at this stage even skill..(Maybe physical gifts as well if he is healthy)

Actually, most of Bee's physical traits(strength,sword skills,durability, endurance etc.) exceed Itachi's even in base form, and would be increased alot more by his bijuu. The sharingan didn't help to much against Hachibi's swords let alone his "8th sword" tech, and Sasuke has been stated to be a more skilled user of the sharingan(base) compared to Itachi.

Also, Itachi has no prior knowledge of Bee, so he as well, will be surprise to see his Tsukiyomi be brushed off, possibly catching Itachi off guard.

The difference in there abilities to use MS jutsu isn't different enough to not be comparable.


Im not beating down upon bee, coz I agree he is in the upper tier of ninja in the narutoverse, Im just saying that from what we have seen of itachi his potential is scary... Kirabi was barely able to escape Ametarasu the first time, in which sasuke assisted by extinguishing it... with an itachi with the intent to kill.. and a fail safe as powered as susanoo my bet is with him

As you stated, the first time Bee had ever seen Amaterasu he escaped it, it will only get easier to escape after seeing the jutsu already.

I'd like to here more about the fight logistically, other than stating how great you think Itachi was, as your argument for your decision of who wins, too much over hyping and assumptions regarding Itachi, and not enough supporting evidence for your claims.

Forever_Melody
April 28, 2009, 05:08 AM
Itachi wouldn't waste an MS genjutsu on Killerbee at least. Since Itachi's whole style is genjutsu, a minor genjutsu is the 1st thing he'd try and he'd realize right off the bat it didn't work rather than risk it like Sasuke did.

Also, I doubt he'd make the mistake of underestimating Killerbee like Sasuke did. Despite being as strong as he is, Itachi has never underestimated any opponent in the series to the point Sasuke underestimated Killerbee I believe.

Spike Spiegal
April 28, 2009, 05:37 AM
That's very possible but, I wouldn't be too sure, as you stated Itachi doesn't underestimate his opponent as much as Sasuke does. Itachi's first Genjutsu against Kakashi was Tsukiyomi and he used Amaterasu immediately to escape Jiriaya's Frog Stomach, If Itachi faces a high-caliber opponent he tends to go "all out" from the beginning, not opting to use lesser strategies.

But still, it wouldn't matter too much because it's not like he can use another Amaterasu if he doesn't use a Tsuki, they're jutsu from separate eyes, and we saw one eye become blind before the other, meaning they each have there own limits when deteriorating. He could use that energy for other purposes I suppose but, Itachi's arsenal is very limited, aside from MS jutsu.

DarkManSharingan32
April 28, 2009, 07:39 AM
Itachi wouldn't waste an MS genjutsu on Killerbee at least. Since Itachi's whole style is genjutsu, a minor genjutsu is the 1st thing he'd try and he'd realize right off the bat it didn't work rather than risk it like Sasuke did.

Also, I doubt he'd make the mistake of underestimating Killerbee like Sasuke did. Despite being as strong as he is, Itachi has never underestimated any opponent in the series to the point Sasuke underestimated Killerbee I believe.

It could that he under-estimated Killerbee...
Or that the group collectively didn't use their best stuff in order to not damage KillerBee too much.... It doesn't really count as a win for them to bring a carcass back to Madara.

The difference between this fight and Sasuke is that Itachi has the clear objective of Killing... Sasuke didn't.

Baron Hugenstein
April 28, 2009, 08:04 AM
I would go for Itachi winning this fight. Both fighters are strong and capable. But the thing about the fight between Kirabee and Sasuke was that Sasuke was still learning the MS and its uses, while Itachi had already Mastered his and knows exactly when to use it.

KiraBee had shown little to no knowledge about the Sharingan and its powers, something that can cost him this fight, and in taijutsu he can lose considering Itachi's speed in jutsus using and movement. Also to mention that Itachi was in a group specially chosen to hunt down Bijuu hosts, and capture them: something he is more than capable of.

Shaunlim
April 28, 2009, 08:12 AM
I would go for Itachi winning this fight. Both fighters are strong and capable. But the thing about the fight between Kirabee and Sasuke was that Sasuke was still learning the MS and its uses, while Itachi had already Mastered his and knows exactly when to use it.

KiraBee had shown little to no knowledge about the Sharingan and its powers, something that can cost him this fight, and in taijutsu he can lose considering Itachi's speed in jutsus using and movement. Also to mention that Itachi was in a group specially chosen to hunt down Bijuu hosts, and capture them: something he is more than capable of.

He does actually. Him reacting to Sasuke's genjutsu saying it is SHG and all would show that he have some knowledge regarding them. And in either cases, I would assume that he knows more now after the fight with Sasuke.

Delbi
April 28, 2009, 03:40 PM
He does actually. Him reacting to Sasuke's genjutsu saying it is SHG and all would show that he have some knowledge regarding them. And in either cases, I would assume that he knows more now after the fight with Sasuke.

He looked right into Sasuke's eyes, this is the number one no no when fighting an Uchiha.

Also, he only knows that the MS can be used to cast Genjutsu on you via eye contact, he has no idea that a regular Sharigan Eye can do so as well from what we have seen.

Itachi was orginally assigned to capture the nine-tailed fox, the strongest Biju there is.

His partner Kisame, one of the baddest mofo's in the manga, has seen scared of him on occasion.

Madara, it would seem out of fear of Itachi, didn't wish to attack Konoha until after he was dead.

Killerbee, whether you like it or not, lost against Taka as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu. In essence, he was only fighting against 3 opponents, all of whom underestimated him until he started killing them. Itachi could steamroll Taka if he was serious.

jdw
April 28, 2009, 03:51 PM
He looked right into Sasuke's eyes, this is the number one no no when fighting an Uchiha.

Also, he only knows that the MS can be used to cast Genjutsu on you via eye contact, he has no idea that a regular Sharigan Eye can do so as well from what we have seen.

Itachi was orginally assigned to capture the nine-tailed fox, the strongest Biju there is.

His partner Kisame, one of the baddest mofo's in the manga, has seen scared of him on occasion.

Madara, it would seem out of fear of Itachi, didn't wish to attack Konoha until after he was dead.

Killerbee, whether you like it or not, lost against Taka as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu. In essence, he was only fighting against 3 opponents, all of whom underestimated him until he started killing them. Itachi could steamroll Taka if he was serious.

Your boy Sasuke lost and Bee used the chance to escape his village (making it look like Sasuke won). He did not run from them, he used his would be captors as an excuse to leave his village and has them marked for death by an entire village. Repeating Sasuke won, or Taka, over and over does not make it so. Calamari, anyone?

* seriously, I can't stop laughing at this because all of Taka was so beaten down (suigetsu was a puddle! and juugo was a 3rd grader) and Bee looked like he could take on an entire country after that fight.

Baron Hugenstein
April 28, 2009, 04:00 PM
He does actually. Him reacting to Sasuke's genjutsu saying it is SHG and all would show that he have some knowledge regarding them. And in either cases, I would assume that he knows more now after the fight with Sasuke.

He recognized the sharingan, but he has shown little information about it, if it weren't for the 8tails, he would have been captured by genjutsu way before Sasuke needed MS

Shaunlim
April 28, 2009, 09:58 PM
He recognized the sharingan, but he has shown little information about it, if it weren't for the 8tails, he would have been captured by genjutsu way before Sasuke needed MS

That's not supported as Sasuke used the MS for genjutsu anyways. And in either case, he already knows now if he didn't before.
[hr]

He looked right into Sasuke's eyes, this is the number one no no when fighting an Uchiha.

Also, he only knows that the MS can be used to cast Genjutsu on you via eye contact, he has no idea that a regular Sharigan Eye can do so as well from what we have seen.

Itachi was orginally assigned to capture the nine-tailed fox, the strongest Biju there is.

His partner Kisame, one of the baddest mofo's in the manga, has seen scared of him on occasion.

Madara, it would seem out of fear of Itachi, didn't wish to attack Konoha until after he was dead.

Killerbee, whether you like it or not, lost against Taka as soon as Sasuke used Ameratsu. In essence, he was only fighting against 3 opponents, all of whom underestimated him until he started killing them. Itachi could steamroll Taka if he was serious.

1. He looked into his eyes because he didn't know he was an Uchiha or that he has the SHG until he was genjutsu'ed. And in any case, care to explain to me how in the world would he know about the MS? He still thought it was the SHG in either case and he knows now that it shoot out black flames. But that doesn't mean he knows that it is an MS ability. And he doesn't need to in either case.

2. In which was also Naruto which was still at the age of 12 without having matured his powers as a jin. It's a moot point here. And Kisame have shown to be disrespectful as well.

3. Baseless as it could be Madara simply honoring his promise to Itachi not to attack Konoha. And in all cases, Madara didn't show sign of real fear towards him.

4. And he was playing around with them too. What's your point? Because, Taka would have been dead if Killerbee wasn't messing around too that much. In which case btw, Killerbee was far from 100% before his fight as he had just summoned his bijyuu which supposedly takes out a lot from him.

Delbi
April 29, 2009, 12:33 AM
1. He looked into his eyes because he didn't know he was an Uchiha or that he has the SHG until he was genjutsu'ed. And in any case, care to explain to me how in the world would he know about the MS? He still thought it was the SHG in either case and he knows now that it shoot out black flames. But that doesn't mean he knows that it is an MS ability. And he doesn't need to in either case.

2. In which was also Naruto which was still at the age of 12 without having matured his powers as a jin. It's a moot point here. And Kisame have shown to be disrespectful as well.

3. Baseless as it could be Madara simply honoring his promise to Itachi not to attack Konoha. And in all cases, Madara didn't show sign of real fear towards him.

4. And he was playing around with them too. What's your point? Because, Taka would have been dead if Killerbee wasn't messing around too that much. In which case btw, Killerbee was far from 100% before his fight as he had just summoned his bijyuu which supposedly takes out a lot from him.

1. Looking into a Sharigan users eyes, is a no no, even when they don't have MS. There is a thing called a normal Sharigan Genjutsu.

2. I don't think the age of these Biju has much to do with anything. When Naruto released the Kyuubi, that had nothing to do with his individual skill, and too me, the 4 tails Kyuubi seems much more dangerous than anything Killerbee has to offer.

3. Why would Madara honor a promise to Itachi? He has no reason to. He showed no sign of fear, because Itachi is now dead. Why else would he not attack Konoha other than some fear of Itachi? If Madara is as powerful as he's been made to be he would have no fear of Itachi.

4. After Sasuke used Tsyukiyomi, I'd say Killerbee stopped playing around. At that point he was trying to kill them. He succeeded more or less in killing Sasuke, but he didn't finish the job. He had to run away once Sasuke used Ameratsu.

Also, he summoned his Biju towards the end of the fight, when he didn't have too. He was at full power througout the entire fight until he did that, and surprisingly, it what would seem like his most powerful form, he got his ass handed to him by Sasuke for the first time in the fight.

Spike Spiegal
April 29, 2009, 01:25 AM
@Delbi45

I may be missing something But, Bee can break out of genjutsu in general, so he wouldn't care about staring in the eyes of an Uchiha, who's eyes are known primarily for that purpose.

Itachi was Madara's student, Madara needed Itachi for his plans to work, that's why he kept his promise, if he told him no, he would have had to kill Itachi, and he would rather keep his promise until his plans were in order,rather than kill him, and be set back drastically. Saying that Madara feared Itachi is baseless.

Hachibi didn't run from Sasuke he used him to escape the village, what was he running from anyway fom? Nobody in Taka was in a position to fight.

Bee never wanted to fight them in the first place, he tried to leave before things heated up, he toyed with them for the majority of the fight, unlike Taka who decided to kill Bee, mid-fight.

Bee didn't get his ass handed to him, where did u get that from? It was quite the opposite actually, bee didn't even get touched by Ama, his bijuu did, Bee came out relatively unscathed through out the entire fight.

Shaunlim
April 29, 2009, 01:46 AM
1. Looking into a Sharigan users eyes, is a no no, even when they don't have MS. There is a thing called a normal Sharigan Genjutsu.

2. I don't think the age of these Biju has much to do with anything. When Naruto released the Kyuubi, that had nothing to do with his individual skill, and too me, the 4 tails Kyuubi seems much more dangerous than anything Killerbee has to offer.

3. Why would Madara honor a promise to Itachi? He has no reason to. He showed no sign of fear, because Itachi is now dead. Why else would he not attack Konoha other than some fear of Itachi? If Madara is as powerful as he's been made to be he would have no fear of Itachi.

4. After Sasuke used Tsyukiyomi, I'd say Killerbee stopped playing around. At that point he was trying to kill them. He succeeded more or less in killing Sasuke, but he didn't finish the job. He had to run away once Sasuke used Ameratsu.

Also, he summoned his Biju towards the end of the fight, when he didn't have too. He was at full power througout the entire fight until he did that, and surprisingly, it what would seem like his most powerful form, he got his ass handed to him by Sasuke for the first time in the fight.

1. U missed my point. It was because he didn't Sasuke was an Uchiha. That's why he realised after seeing his SHG.

2. Part 1, Naruto was dying from using 1 Tail. His hand became numb and damaged. So, there is a difference.

3. Why? Because Madara is one of those old fashion warlords that is such. Besides, you keep saying Madara feared Itachi but nothing suggests that Madara even have any fear for him. As a matter of fact, if Itachi was all that strong, he might as well finished up Madara.

4. Doesn't matter. Eitherway, he wasn't at 100% and he was messing around at the start. Which in either case, like Itachi, he would steamroll them all if he was actually serious.

5. Wrong. Since the bijyuu said that summoning him out would take a lot and Killerbee did that before the fight, one would assume he wasn't at full power.

Delbi
April 29, 2009, 02:04 AM
5. Wrong. Since the bijyuu said that summoning him out would take a lot and Killerbee did that before the fight, one would assume he wasn't at full power.

I can care less about everything else, but when did Killerbee summon his Biju before the fight? I don't remeber that at all.
[hr]


Bee didn't get his ass handed to him, where did u get that from? It was quite the opposite actually, bee didn't even get touched by Ama, his bijuu did, Bee came out relatively unscathed through out the entire fight.

He got lit on fire and starting falling apart in his most powerful form. His Biju even stated he had used up almost all of his strength to summon him, so depite Taka's status, he was in no shape to fight either.

And while he was running away from his village, those weren't his intentions before the fight, he used his opertunity to defeat Taka to run away from his village.

Shaunlim
April 29, 2009, 02:05 AM
I can care less about everything else, but when did Killerbee summon his Biju before the fight? I don't remeber that at all.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/16/

Delbi
April 29, 2009, 02:12 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/16/

Forgot about that, but you also must remeber, Sasuke wasn't fully healed from his fight with his brother. Not to mention he had to adapt his normal strategy because a good portion of his arsenal got ripped out of him by his brother.

Shaunlim
April 29, 2009, 02:42 AM
Forgot about that, but you also must remeber, Sasuke wasn't fully healed from his fight with his brother. Not to mention he had to adapt his normal strategy because a good portion of his arsenal got ripped out of him by his brother.

I already mentioned that previously in this thread. Both had their own advantage and disadvantages. So, it's pointless to make any excuses for both side.

Destined_One
April 29, 2009, 03:16 AM
First off, Itachi didn't manipulate the entire fight, I don't know where you get that idea from.

Second, Itachi took medication to help his sickness and to postpone his death. we aren't sure If Itachi was even affected or to what extent, by his condition, but I would assume, that the medicine kept the effects from being drastic.

also, Itachi was only blind at the very end of the fight, and it was from his extensive use of his sharingan during the match.Again, we don't know what Itachi gave Naruto or if it affected his abilities in the fight with Sasuke in any way.


Yes he did manipulate the fight.. the fact a fighter can achieve everything he wants from a fight without someone knowing... is something to admirer... He exhausted all of sasuke's chakra to defeat Oro who lay dormant inside him... he pushed him to his limit without killing him, yet giving no evidence to Sasuke that it was all a sham... whilst living to plant one final defense against Madara..

Also Zetsu commented on Itachi not being 100% and it was emphasized again by madara who basically told sasuke that if he was serious, he would be dead... so it doesn't really matter to what extent he was hindered.. fact is, he was



Itachi didn't slaughter his entire clan, Madara had a big hand in the Massacre as well.

It's not known that Madara was even worried about Itachi, he made a promise to his student to quell his fears, and he honored them (to a point),if Itachi had a chance of defeating Madara he would have taken it, he also wouldn't have stated that he would need the EMS to do so.


I never mentioned once that it was a solo effort, you manifested that on your own.. I basically said he had been using MS since the "slaughtering" of his clan...

And madara says after Itachi's death "Now no one can get in our way" .. thats not a statement of someone without any worries... also you ever think he never moved on Madara because he had planned to kill himself against sasuke? with his sickness his death was eminent.. he would most likely have to pick and choose his battles carefully, rationing his remaining time left..



Actually, most of Bee's physical traits(strength,sword skills,durability, endurance etc.) exceed Itachi's even in base form, and would be increased alot more by his bijuu. The sharingan didn't help to much against Hachibi's swords let alone his "8th sword" tech, and Sasuke has been stated to be a more skilled user of the sharingan(base) compared to Itachi.


Firstly he didn't have sharingan activated when bee was using his swords.. he only activated toward the end of that sequence in which he dodge his final sword... he was cut by bee only when thrusting foward with his chidori sword, which was a mistake by him, as bee was able to perform the same jutsu which lead to sasuke being hit.. Also "Number 8" is bee's name for the hachibi's power.. which he comments "oho not since my brother has someone deflected number 8" ... And what evidence is there that Kirabi's base strength and speed are superior to Itachi's? even in his Bijuu form he fail's to hit sasuke, and as I said before.. it was only his surprise attack after tsyukomi that heavily debilitated Sasuke... also I suggested he would likely be stronger with the bijuu as pure comparison to how it amps naruto... but itachi's speed is ranked 5 in the DB that is why I said they could be similar in speed



Also, Itachi has no prior knowledge of Bee, so he as well, will be surprise to see his Tsukiyomi be brushed off, possibly catching Itachi off guard.

The difference in there abilities to use MS jutsu isn't different enough to not be comparable.



So being more efficient and knowing how and when to use certain jutsu's isnt an advantage? its like Naruto first using KB in the beginning of the manga... and after just learning it saying his use of the jutsu and kakashi's is comparable?.. or 2 men in a knife fight.. yet one knows how to use it more affectively, who is more dangerous?



As you stated, the first time Bee had ever seen Amaterasu he escaped it, it will only get easier to escape after seeing the jutsu already.

I'd like to here more about the fight logistically, other than stating how great you think Itachi was, as your argument for your decision of who wins, too much over hyping and assumptions regarding Itachi, and not enough supporting evidence for your claims.

Yea its true hes seen Amaterasu before, but it isn't like he knows Itachi is an Uchiha.. or has the sharigan.. or that the Jutsu's they have are the same... truth is, Kirabi knows as much about Itachi as itachi know's about him..

Spike Spiegal
April 30, 2009, 03:11 PM
Yes he did manipulate the fight.. the fact a fighter can achieve everything he wants from a fight without someone knowing... is something to admirer... He exhausted all of sasuke's chakra to defeat Oro who lay dormant inside him... he pushed him to his limit without killing him, yet giving no evidence to Sasuke that it was all a sham... whilst living to plant one final defense against Madara..

Having a plan and following through, and not disclosing your intentions is not manipulating the entire fight.All he had to do is exhaust Sasuke, which a superior fighter should be able to do, and he even had trouble with that. He didn't force Sasuke to do anything he didn't want to during the fight, he didn't account for Kirin, and didn't know Sasuke's current skill set.


Also Zetsu commented on Itachi not being 100% and it was emphasized again by madara who basically told sasuke that if he was serious, he would be dead... so it doesn't really matter to what extent he was hindered.. fact is, he was

you serious? of course it matters to what extent he was hindered. Itachi didn't seem affected 100% of the time, only showing the effects of his condition a couple of times, which coincidentally, where the only times in which it is commented on, we can't assume his skills were effected, we can't assume that his speed was affected because he couldn't dodge an attack, when his vision was obviously decreasing, and was pointed out at the same time as the incident.


I never mentioned once that it was a solo effort, you manifested that on your own.. I basically said he had been using MS since the "slaughtering" of his clan...

And madara says after Itachi's death "Now no one can get in our way" .. thats not a statement of someone without any worries... also you ever think he never moved on Madara because he had planned to kill himself against sasuke? with his sickness his death was eminent.. he would most likely have to pick and choose his battles carefully, rationing his remaining time left..

Your missing the point, If Itachi thought he could defeat Madara he would have, what's the point of going through what he did if he could defeat the main problem? he stated he would need EMS to surpass Madara.

Madara stated not having anyone in his way, addressing his goals, which is to get Sasuke on his side/to believe him. while Itachi was alive, if he wanted, He could reveal the truth, and ruin Madara's current manipulation over Sasuke.


Firstly he didn't have sharingan activated when bee was using his swords.. he only activated toward the end of that sequence in which he dodge his final sword... he was cut by bee only when thrusting foward with his chidori sword, which was a mistake by him, as bee was able to perform the same jutsu which lead to sasuke being hit.. Also "Number 8" is bee's name for the hachibi's power.. which he comments "oho not since my brother has someone deflected number 8" ... And what evidence is there that Kirabi's base strength and speed are superior to Itachi's? even in his Bijuu form he fail's to hit sasuke, and as I said before.. it was only his surprise attack after tsyukomi that heavily debilitated Sasuke... also I suggested he would likely be stronger with the bijuu as pure comparison to how it amps naruto... but itachi's speed is ranked 5 in the DB that is why I said they could be similar in speed

First off, After activating his sharingan Sasuke didn't dodge any of Bee's swords, he deflected 2 of them, proof is him being thrown to the floor from after the exchange. Meaning despite his sharingan, he still doesn't have the physical speed to dodge the attacks. As more proof, he did have his sharingan activated and a chidori sword, during there next exchange, still he was completely overwhelmed, he wasn't able to deflect or dodge any of Bee's 7 blades with the help of the sharingan.
I never stated Bee's base speed was superior to Itachi's, though I do think his sword skill would overwhelm him like it did Sasuke, Strength is a given, if you don't want to go by appearances alone, Bee was able to wield Suigetsu's blade one-handed like it was nothing.


So being more efficient and knowing how and when to use certain jutsu's isnt an advantage? its like Naruto first using KB in the beginning of the manga... and after just learning it saying his use of the jutsu and kakashi's is comparable?.. or 2 men in a knife fight.. yet one knows how to use it more affectively, who is more dangerous

Not even remotely comparable, from our understanding of MS jutsu and the evidence in the manga, the learning curve isn't that high, Itachi hasn't been shown to use MS jutsu with much more Superiority than Sasuke, and what's to learn? Ama/Tsuki are Nin/Gen doujutsu respectively, everything else is pretty basic. I too believe Itachi is slightly better with his MS, but there's not a outstanding difference that we've seen, it's not like he's capable of doing things that Sasuke can't with the same tech.


Yea its true hes seen Amaterasu before, but it isn't like he knows Itachi is an Uchiha.. or has the sharigan.. or that the Jutsu's they have are the same... truth is, Kirabi knows as much about Itachi as itachi know's about him..

Not at all. If Itachi is Itachi, he'll use the sharingan rather quickly, so Bee would know very early in the match that he's a adept Uchiha with the sharingan, and whether or not Bee knows Itachi has Ama and Tsuki won't matter, it's still an advantage, since he's still seen the attacks before and overcame them, while on the other end Itachi knows virtually nothing about Bee.

wildG
April 30, 2009, 03:25 PM
1. U missed my point. It was because he didn't Sasuke was an Uchiha. That's why he realised after seeing his SHG.

2. Part 1, Naruto was dying from using 1 Tail. His hand became numb and damaged. So, there is a difference.

3. Why? Because Madara is one of those old fashion warlords that is such. Besides, you keep saying Madara feared Itachi but nothing suggests that Madara even have any fear for him. As a matter of fact, if Itachi was all that strong, he might as well finished up Madara.

4. Doesn't matter. Eitherway, he wasn't at 100% and he was messing around at the start. Which in either case, like Itachi, he would steamroll them all if he was actually serious.

5. Wrong. Since the bijyuu said that summoning him out would take a lot and Killerbee did that before the fight, one would assume he wasn't at full power.

3. i gotta kinda agree with you, i wouldnt say that madara shown fear towards itachi, he just needed itachi to manipulate sasuke and make him stronger ( with all this hatred stuff..) in other words, itachi was in his plans for sasuke too, aswell as he respected him i think...

5. i think that killerbee was tired cause we have seen him first training, before sasuke arrives, but i am quite sure that both sasuke and killer bee had their disadantages, while killerbee might were kinda exhausted after his training, sasuke seemed lil bit exhausted too aswell as he didnt know how to use his new power...

eitherway back to the topic, i am quite sure, itachi would take this, i am quite sure that killerbee will make it for itachi hard time but in the saME time i am sure that killerbee wont succeed touching or even slashing once itachi, itachi seems to be overcautious.. and it must be hell to try and come close to him since hes such a master in genjutsu.. to think how he fooled deidara so easily... deidara didnt even understand it was genjutsu he thought he had itachi in his hands.

Raizen
May 06, 2009, 01:49 PM
gtg but I agree with some of u here that they both will die.
Both are very strong ninjas, but they will take each other out

Leos~
May 09, 2009, 01:03 PM
You know, just out of vague curiosity;

if the Sword of Totsuka traps the user in an "unbreakable genjutsu' - http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/

and "illusions don't work on a host who can control their beast" -
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/

Would Killer Bee be able to resist the Sword of Totsuka? Personally I don't think so but it could be food for thought.

Belisar
May 09, 2009, 01:32 PM
He recognized the sharingan, but he has shown little information about it, if it weren't for the 8tails, he would have been captured by genjutsu way before Sasuke needed MS
if it weren't for the sharingan, he would have been killed in the first 12 chapters.

ninjabot
May 09, 2009, 07:40 PM
if it weren't for the sharingan, he would have been killed in the first 12 chapters.

How do you figure that if Sasuke doesn't even get the Sharingan until friggin' chapter 27?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/27/05/

jdw
May 09, 2009, 11:44 PM
When does it get boring taking powers away from people and say they would lose to someone you let keep all of their powers?

If bee didn't have Hachibi, maybe he would have spent time developing different skills and killed Sasuke anyway. Same for Sasuke without sharingan. It makes little sense to just handicap either and say he would have lost without X skill.

Delbi
May 10, 2009, 12:54 AM
You know, just out of vague curiosity;

if the Sword of Totsuka traps the user in an "unbreakable genjutsu' - http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/

and "illusions don't work on a host who can control their beast" -
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/

Would Killer Bee be able to resist the Sword of Totsuka? Personally I don't think so but it could be food for thought.

Interesting idea, theoretically it should work, but I don't think the Sword of Totsuka works like a genjutsu, I think it works like a sealing jutsu. In this case, it just seals your soul into a "blissful genjutsu".

Leos~
May 10, 2009, 03:09 PM
Interesting idea, theoretically it should work, but I don't think the Sword of Totsuka works like a genjutsu, I think it works like a sealing jutsu. In this case, it just seals your soul into a "blissful genjutsu".

Yeah, because they said the sword is said to "carry sealing powers" I also figured about the same, but it was still kinda fun to think about it :tem

Weapon_X
May 10, 2009, 04:34 PM
Yeah, because they said the sword is said to "carry sealing powers" I also figured about the same, but it was still kinda fun to think about it :tem

Yes, it's also the ultimate counter to the Kusunagi as well. :)

Raizen
May 13, 2009, 01:07 PM
Yes, it's also the ultimate counter to the Kusunagi as well. :)
And the kusanagi couldn't pierce 4TK so would the totsuka pierce it??
We know that the skin of the 8-tails is nothing compared to the 9-tails.
Anyways, While itachi has the sharigan, killer has his bijuu and he isn't exactly a rookie nin

-Ren Boy-
May 13, 2009, 03:08 PM
Killer Bee Has This One. Itachi Could Get Him Into A Genjutsu But Killer Bee Could Use Hachibis Chakra To Disturb His Chakra. So Tsukiyomi Is Presumably Out Of Here

Amateratsu COULD I Repeat COULD Finish Killer Bee. But If Killer Bee Were To Use The Technique Where He Tranformed A Piece Of Hachibi's Tail Into Him. Then Itachi Using Amateratsu Would Finish Him Off

I Wonder If Killer Bee's Menacing Ball Will Penertrate The Defences Of Susano'o

Killer Bee Will Only Win If He Were To Go Into Full Power Hachibi

Delbi
May 14, 2009, 01:44 AM
And the kusanagi couldn't pierce 4TK so would the totsuka pierce it??
We know that the skin of the 8-tails is nothing compared to the 9-tails.
Anyways, While itachi has the sharigan, killer has his bijuu and he isn't exactly a rookie nin

The sword of Totsuka is a spiritual weapon, it's an ethereal item, it can probably pierce through anything in the manga I'd think.
[hr]

Killer Bee Has This One. Itachi Could Get Him Into A Genjutsu But Killer Bee Could Use Hachibis Chakra To Disturb His Chakra. So Tsukiyomi Is Presumably Out Of Here

Amateratsu COULD I Repeat COULD Finish Killer Bee. But If Killer Bee Were To Use The Technique Where He Tranformed A Piece Of Hachibi's Tail Into Him. Then Itachi Using Amateratsu Would Finish Him Off

I Wonder If Killer Bee's Menacing Ball Will Penertrate The Defences Of Susano'o

Killer Bee Will Only Win If He Were To Go Into Full Power Hachibi

Eh, his menacing ball couldn't even kill Suigetsu, Sussano stopped a lightning bolt, I don'tthink the menacing ball would be a problem.

And if Killerbee went into Full Power Hachibi, he'd doom himself because he'd be slower, and an easier target for both Ameratsu and Sussano, and if he gets cut with Sussano's sword, he dies more or less.

Forever_Melody
May 14, 2009, 06:52 AM
The sword of Totsuka is a spiritual weapon, it's an ethereal item, it can probably pierce through anything in the manga I'd think
Even the Yata's Mirror? :blink Not that it would ever happen, but hypothetically speaking... :eyeroll I mean, lots of thing have been commented upon being supreme in one way or another, wouldn't surprise me if they turned around and re-did the whole equation.

ex: comparing something that "can't be blocked(and by extrapolation you add 'by anything')" vs something that "blocks everything"


Eh, his menacing ball couldn't even kill Suigetsu, Sussano stopped a lightning bolt, I don'tthink the menacing ball would be a problem.

And if Killerbee went into Full Power Hachibi, he'd doom himself because he'd be slower, and an easier target for both Ameratsu and Sussano, and if he gets cut with Sussano's sword, he dies more or less.
Just wanted to correct you for accuracy's sake, you have to be pierced by the sword of Totsuka to activate its sealing powers(link (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/)). A cut does nothing but slice as seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/12/).

Anyways, I personally think Itachi would win mostly because he wouldn't make the mistake to underestimate Killerbee or to think he's won until he's actually won. It's more of a question of Itachi's strategy vs Sasuke's rather than Itachi's powers vs Sasuke's.

jdw
May 14, 2009, 09:40 AM
Even the Yata's Mirror? :blink Not that it would ever happen, but hypothetically speaking... :eyeroll I mean, lots of thing have been commented upon being supreme in one way or another, wouldn't surprise me if they turned around and re-did the whole equation.

ex: comparing something that "can't be blocked(and by extrapolation you add 'by anything')" vs something that "blocks everything"


Just wanted to correct you for accuracy's sake, you have to be pierced by the sword of Totsuka to activate its sealing powers(link (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/)). A cut does nothing but slice as seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/12/).

Anyways, I personally think Itachi would win mostly because he wouldn't make the mistake to underestimate Killerbee or to think he's won until he's actually won. It's more of a question of Itachi's strategy vs Sasuke's rather than Itachi's powers vs Sasuke's.

I agree. I think Itachi is a more mature fighter than Sasuke is, and I think Sasuke is too arrogant for his own good, even though he is a skilled fighter. Perhaps the fight with Bee will give him some perspective considering that he died twice. Also, once he finds out he failed hi mission it may also give him pause.

THM Nindo
May 14, 2009, 12:16 PM
Hey guys, just saying that we can't just say something like : "Itachi would come in and throw Amaterasu and the fight will be over in 30 seconds", because we all know that it would never go like that.

Just take Kakashi... he has one of the strongest justu ever in Kamui.
He can just make something disappear in another dimension.

That said, theorically, he could have look at Pain's head and kill him instantly. Does it mean that Kakashi is stronger than Pain? No.
Does it mean that Kakashi would win a fight against Pain? No, we have the proof now.

So, I think we can't decide how a fight will finish based on a instant-kill jutsu like Amaterasu (well, it's not really instant-kill... you have time to suffer a bit before you die:tem)

Delbi
May 14, 2009, 03:00 PM
Even the Yata's Mirror? :blink Not that it would ever happen, but hypothetically speaking... :eyeroll I mean, lots of thing have been commented upon being supreme in one way or another, wouldn't surprise me if they turned around and re-did the whole equation.

ex: comparing something that "can't be blocked(and by extrapolation you add 'by anything')" vs something that "blocks everything"

Well that goes back to the question, who wins, the unstoppable force, or the inmmovable object?

In any event, no character has shown to have anything that could block the sword of Totsuka aside from Itachi.



Just wanted to correct you for accuracy's sake, you have to be pierced by the sword of Totsuka to activate its sealing powers(link (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/)). A cut does nothing but slice as seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/12/).

Anyways, I personally think Itachi would win mostly because he wouldn't make the mistake to underestimate Killerbee or to think he's won until he's actually won. It's more of a question of Itachi's strategy vs Sasuke's rather than Itachi's powers vs Sasuke's.

Well, the sword didn't cut Orochimaru, it cut the Hyrda, which is his jutsu. When the sword actually hit Orochimaru, he was sealed. There is a difference as Orochimaru's actual body was never hit the first time.

I agree with your analysis on Itachi and Sasuke though. If Sasuke was a little more intelligent, and not as arrogant, he could of defeated Killerbee easier. We also have to remeber he didn't know he could use Ameratsu, which is what ultimately ended the fight.

jodi
May 14, 2009, 03:06 PM
You know, just out of vague curiosity;

if the Sword of Totsuka traps the user in an "unbreakable genjutsu' - http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/

and "illusions don't work on a host who can control their beast" -
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/

Would Killer Bee be able to resist the Sword of Totsuka? Personally I don't think so but it could be food for thought.

orochimaru was sucked in the sword, so I guess that both killer bee and the bijuu would be in a genjutsu state inside the sword

M3J
May 14, 2009, 03:47 PM
I'd say Itachi. Sasuke was nearly close, but he was an idiot and didn't expect the bijuu to help shake off genjutsu. Itachi would probably have prepared for that. Killerbee commented on how Sasuke was the toughest, if not one of the toughest, he fought, and I stubbornly stand by with Itachi being way better than Sasuke, so if Killerbee was against Itachi, he'd have a run for his money. And probably be beaten.
Fanboyism FTW

Franckie
May 14, 2009, 06:54 PM
Killer Bee Has This One. Itachi Could Get Him Into A Genjutsu But Killer Bee Could Use Hachibis Chakra To Disturb His Chakra. So Tsukiyomi Is Presumably Out Of Here

Tsukuyomi is still an option. Tsukuyomi is (1) instantaneous and (2) puts the victim into a coma. What Sasuke used against Killer Bee did neither of those. What Killer Bee broke free from (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/09/) is probably an MS-enhanced Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/).


I'd say Itachi. Sasuke was nearly close, but he was an idiot and didn't expect the bijuu to help shake off genjutsu. Itachi would probably have prepared for that. Killerbee commented on how Sasuke was the toughest, if not one of the toughest, he fought, and I stubbornly stand by with Itachi being way better than Sasuke, so if Killerbee was against Itachi, he'd have a run for his money. And probably be beaten.
Fanboyism FTW

Itachi being way better than Sasuke? Hardly. Sasuke vs Itachi showed that Itachi does not stand a chance against Sasuke without the Mangekyou Sharingan. In addition, the current gap in strength between the two is now negligible given Sasuke's newfound acquisition of the MS.

WaveBossa
May 14, 2009, 06:56 PM
Itachi, fires of hell = win

M3J
May 14, 2009, 07:13 PM
But Itachi was sick and was fighting enough so that he makes Sasuke tired while alive and safe enough.

WaveBossa
May 14, 2009, 07:17 PM
I just read all six pages of this, but to me, even the best defenses for killerbee are for naught.

Forget Susanoo and Tsukyiomi (i can't spell), he has the fires of hell, period. KB escaped from this, but he lost his form and i would imagine a shit ton of energy.

Kishi made the MS very powerful, and the fact of the matter is, that with all of those MS techs at his disposal, I dont see how Itachi could lose.

jdw
May 14, 2009, 07:23 PM
I just read all six pages of this, but to me, even the best defenses for killerbee are for naught.

Forget Susanoo and Tsukyiomi (i can't spell), he has the fires of hell, period. KB escaped from this, but he lost his form and i would imagine a shit ton of energy.

Kishi made the MS very powerful, and the fact of the matter is, that with all of those MS techs at his disposal, I dont see how Itachi could lose.

The bijuu only complained about losing a limb, he didn't say anything about lost strength or power. I think that Itachi could pull it out but it would probably be due to Susanoo and the sword of totsuka :)

Forever_Melody
May 14, 2009, 07:28 PM
Well that goes back to the question, who wins, the unstoppable force, or the inmmovable object?

In any event, no character has shown to have anything that could block the sword of Totsuka aside from Itachi.
Well I was speaking hypothetically. The Sword of Totsuka isn't commented on being unable to be blocked, so that's not one of its properties. The ethereal-ness of it can also be countered by the fact that it CAN interact with the physical world(as it can pierce and cut stuff) so maybe the opposite is possible. At this point, it's too early to tell really.


Well, the sword didn't cut Orochimaru, it cut the Hyrda, which is his jutsu. When the sword actually hit Orochimaru, he was sealed. There is a difference as Orochimaru's actual body was never hit the first time.

The hydra is connected to Orochimaru as shown that when Oro was sealed, so was the hydra.

Also, Zetsu specifically SAYS the word "pierced" when speaking of the sealing powers so you can't really argue with Zetsu(he can do that all by himself :tem)

Eddy01741
May 14, 2009, 07:57 PM
Tsukuyomi is still an option. Tsukuyomi is (1) instantaneous and (2) puts the victim into a coma. What Sasuke used against Killer Bee did neither of those. What Killer Bee broke free from (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/09/) is probably an MS-enhanced Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/).



Itachi being way better than Sasuke? Hardly. Sasuke vs Itachi showed that Itachi does not stand a chance against Sasuke without the Mangekyou Sharingan. In addition, the current gap in strength between the two is now negligible given Sasuke's newfound acquisition of the MS.


I disagree with your first point. Although it is possible that the genjutsu he used was not Tsukuyomi, I think it more likely than not was Tsukuyomi. First off, Tsukuyomi is the only genjutsu we have seen that has inverted colors (black=white and vice versa), so that happened, plus, the pain that Sasuke endured after he used the genjutsu, he was basically bending over in pain, hoping to get a rest from the genjutsu he put Killerbee in. I personally think that it is Tsukuyomi, but even if it isn't, it wouldn't matter if it "puts you in a coma", oh right, it doesn't put you in a coma. It makes 3 seconds seem like 72 hours. That's more along the lines of altering time and space in another dimension (which is exactly waht Itachi described it to be), where does it say it puts the victm into a coma? Kakashi went into a coma since he was overloaded from the pain endured from the genjutsu, completely understandable, to be stabbed by a katana for 72 hours straight is just painful, I could imagine worse but really, it still is pretty bad. If Killerbee can break out of the Tsukuyomi before he is overwhelmed by pain, then it doesn't matter if it's instantenous or if the pain potentially caused could put him into a coma, because it instantaneously stuns him for 3 seconds if he doesn't realize the whole time that he is in a genjutsu, and he won't endure enough pain to be put into a coma.

Anyhow, I still see Itachi as stronger than Sasuke, not way stronger, but still stronger. For the first part, he's just plain smarter than Sasuke, in both mentality and battle tactics, the fact that Sasuke goes into a fight underestimating his opponents and believing he can win with just taijutsu is just plain stupid and arrogant. Then the fact that Itachi has more experience with the MS, and we don't even know if Sasuke is confirmed to have Susanoo, and if he does, if he has the two items (the shield and the sword) that make it so deadly. Lastly, don't say that Itachi would lose without MS. He built much of his fighting tactics around MS, so without MS, he would have likely had more conventional jutsu to supplement his fighting skills rather than relying more on MS jutsu. That's like saying if Naruto didn't have Kyuubi, he'd be an awful ninja, if he didn't have kyuubi, he'd have better chakra control, he'd have parents to raise him to be a great ninja, and he wouldn't be shunned by the village which lead him to be a troublemaker till he met Iruka. I'm just not a fan of these "if" situations.

Shaunlim
May 15, 2009, 12:00 AM
Tsukuyomi is still an option. Tsukuyomi is (1) instantaneous and (2) puts the victim into a coma. What Sasuke used against Killer Bee did neither of those. What Killer Bee broke free from (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/09/) is probably an MS-enhanced Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/).



Itachi being way better than Sasuke? Hardly. Sasuke vs Itachi showed that Itachi does not stand a chance against Sasuke without the Mangekyou Sharingan. In addition, the current gap in strength between the two is now negligible given Sasuke's newfound acquisition of the MS.

1. We don't even know if MS enchants any SHG genjutsu or any other ability. All we know that it gives the user 3 new jutsus. And whether Tsukiyomi or not(which I still believe it is), it's still an MS genjutsu.

2. Hardly? Aren't you forgetting that Sasuke also lost his CS and Oro powerup which he had against Itachi? Not to mention the fact that Itachi was holding back? Sasuke isn't close to Itachi just yet.

Eitherway, this match simply boils down on luck. Both are pretty much evenly match overall with each having their own advantage. With their cards played right, both has the potential to win it. Having said that, this would be a close matchup in which the winner would probably be injured badly.

choke_a_beech
May 15, 2009, 01:36 AM
Itachi opening the fight with amaraetsu (sp?) it would drain him and hurt his eye like hell, but it would either defeat or damage killer bee immensely. so i gotta say itachi - killer bee is a strong mofo...but he doesnt have an attack like that. oh wait, yeh he's got that shooting chakra ball thing, but he has to turn into tailed form...and that takes time.

Belisar
May 15, 2009, 06:56 AM
Itachi opening the fight with amaraetsu (sp?) it would drain him and hurt his eye like hell, but it would either defeat or damage killer bee immensely. so i gotta say itachi - killer bee is a strong mofo...but he doesnt have an attack like that. oh wait, yeh he's got that shooting chakra ball thing, but he has to turn into tailed form...and that takes time.
are you seriously implying that killerbee, a ninja on kage level and the second strongest in his village, does not have any jutsu just because he hasn't show them? kakashi knows over 1000 jutsu but just because he hasn't shown them all, do you think that he can't perform them? logic fail.

Forever_Melody
May 15, 2009, 09:48 AM
are you seriously implying that killerbee, a ninja on kage level and the second strongest in his village, does not have any jutsu just because he hasn't show them? kakashi knows over 1000 jutsu but just because he hasn't shown them all, do you think that he can't perform them? logic fail.
Yeah but you can't assume anything unless you know. Sure, Killerbee might have a jutsu like Amaterasu, but he hasn't shown it, therefore we can't assume he does.

Same as Kakashi, he might know 1000 jutsus, but until he shows the 1000 of them to us, we can't assume or speculate what they are and can't use them in any logical argument. "Oh yeah, Kakashi has a jutsu in his 1000 arsenal to beat that". THAT is a logical fallacy.

I'm quite certain Killerbee has more than the few things he's shown us, but until he shows us more, we can't exactly use that in any argument.

Weapon_X
May 15, 2009, 12:00 PM
Well this was the first fight we have seen and we just saw a glimpse of his power and abilities. Even his Biju mentioned that Killer Bee had the upper hand, there was no need for him to go tailed beast mode. He just got carried away and Kishi probably just wanted to show us the 8 tails.

There will be a rematch between Killer Bee and Sasuke. Unless, did anyone think that when Sasuke said "we are the ones using Akatsuki" he knew that when he captured Killer Bee, he knew he wasn't the real one but just a tentacle? Maybe Sasuke let him go, but not sure..there will be a Killer bee vs X fight soon, he is on the run from both ends LOL

Amazing that when killer Bee was introduced, he went into the top 5 strongest Shinob straight away or at least the top 10. Probably mainly due to the Biju, but then again what would Itachi be without the MS? But I'm sure Killer Bee has other tricks up his sleeves then just using the Biju. :)

toussaintac
May 15, 2009, 12:15 PM
First of all, it's pretty obvious that Itachi is on a whole other level than Sasuke. Also, I do not agree that Killer Bee lost to Taka. It's obvious that he used them to escape his village. He never even had to transfer.

Now on to the real topic:

Itachi has been shown to be highly skilled in every aspect. With just his normal sharingan, he's highly dangerous. The difference between him and Sasuke is that he is far more versatile than Sasuke. Itachi is probably the most cautious guy for someone so strong. His normal genjutsu couldn't even be seen through by Sasuke's sharingan and he had Sasuke killing fakes of him and everything. Not to mention that Itachi has ridiculous speed for movement and hand seals. His usage of clones is top notch and he uses them to scout his opponents, so that attack from Killer Bee that nailed Sasuke most likely would've hit a clone considering how Itachi fights. It's hard to gauge Itachi when he's 100% and has killing intent becasue we've never seen it, but if he can pick apart someone such as Sasuke without the intent to kill then I'm frightened. Sasuke and his team without the intent to kill got murdered by Killer Bee.

On the other hand we have Killer Bee. This guy has the most unique fighting style yet with the seven swords. His style couldn't be read by Sasuke. Not saying this will translate to Itachi, but it demonstrates that it could be possible. He's also able to break out of what I believe to be Tsukiyomi. He has raton element but we've seen Itachi effectively combat that in his fight against Sasuke. Now, he can do a psuedo transform and fully transform as well. This serves as a big boost, but as we know, Itachi is part of Akatsuki. Those guys can take on bijuu/jinchu by theirself, so it's not hard to picture Killer Bee getting defeated by someone such as Itachi even after he's fully transformed.

Now, I'm not saying Killer Bee doesn't have other moves. He probably does considering he wasn't really trying to fight Taka. What i do know is that Susanoo could be the clincher. We saw Susanoo seal Oro and his summon. I like both characters alot, but If Killer Bee decided not to transform then Itachi could probably defeat him with Amaterasu or other techniques that we may have never seen. If Killer Bee decides to transform, we've seen that Susanoo could deflect huge scale attacks and that being stabbed will seal you forever.

With that said, i think the fight would go to Itachi.

jdw
May 15, 2009, 12:17 PM
Well this was the first fight we have seen and we just saw a glimpse of his power and abilities. Even his Biju mentioned that Killer Bee had the upper hand, there was no need for him to go tailed beast mode. He just got carried away and Kishi probably just wanted to show us the 8 tails.

There will be a rematch between Killer Bee and Sasuke. Unless, did anyone think that when Sasuke said "we are the ones using Akatsuki" he knew that when he captured Killer Bee, he knew he wasn't the real one but just a tentacle? Maybe Sasuke let him go, but not sure..there will be a Killer bee vs X fight soon, he is on the run from both ends LOL

Amazing that when killer Bee was introduced, he went into the top 5 strongest Shinob straight away or at least the top 10. Probably mainly due to the Biju, but then again what would Itachi be without the MS? But I'm sure Killer Bee has other tricks up his sleeves then just using the Biju. :)

Well, he did molest Sasuke and his whole squad, leaving Sasuke needing 2 phoenix downs. Sasuke is no chump. If bee had just beaten up Juugo or Suigestsu, his rep may not have jumped so high so fast, but in stomping Sasuke he was able to show his level pretty quickly.

It was the same for Pain. We knew he would be a beast but when he fought and beat Jiraiya, it was clear that he was elite (we knew he was good from beating hanzou, but we had not seen much from pain at that point).

Weapon_X
May 15, 2009, 03:11 PM
Well, he did molest Sasuke and his whole squad, leaving Sasuke needing 2 phoenix downs. Sasuke is no chump. If bee had just beaten up Juugo or Suigestsu, his rep may not have jumped so high so fast, but in stomping Sasuke he was able to show his level pretty quickly.

It was the same for Pain. We knew he would be a beast but when he fought and beat Jiraiya, it was clear that he was elite (we knew he was good from beating hanzou, but we had not seen much from pain at that point).

What I didn't understand was that why Sasuke didn't try to use Kirin,or even think about using it. Where they faced, Unraikyo Mountain, there were plenty of clouds in the sky, so he could have prepared the attack whilst Suigetsu,Karin and Juugo keep getting their ass kicked by Killer Bee.

He didn't use any Shuriken attacks, Katon Jutsus, his usual stuff.

M3J
May 15, 2009, 03:38 PM
Well, he did molest Sasuke and his whole squad, leaving Sasuke needing 2 phoenix downs. Sasuke is no chump. If bee had just beaten up Juugo or Suigestsu, his rep may not have jumped so high so fast, but in stomping Sasuke he was able to show his level pretty quickly.

It was the same for Pain. We knew he would be a beast but when he fought and beat Jiraiya, it was clear that he was elite (we knew he was good from beating hanzou, but we had not seen much from pain at that point).
But Sasuke underestimates his opponents and wasn't as intelligent as Itachi or had similar power to him. But Killerbee did take on Suigetsu, Juugo, and Sasuke and beat them, even if with the power of bijuu. What jumped his rep IMO was his ability to control his bijuu, which was 8-Tails, most powerful after 9-Tails.
It's been said that Pain might not have beaten Jiraiya if Jiraiya knew his secret though. Jiraiya won the first round and lost the second one mostly because he didn't expect other Pains. Just an opinion though, since Pain didn't show as much fighting intelligence as few other Akatsuki have IMO.


Well this was the first fight we have seen and we just saw a glimpse of his power and abilities. Even his Biju mentioned that Killer Bee had the upper hand, there was no need for him to go tailed beast mode. He just got carried away and Kishi probably just wanted to show us the 8 tails.

There will be a rematch between Killer Bee and Sasuke. Unless, did anyone think that when Sasuke said "we are the ones using Akatsuki" he knew that when he captured Killer Bee, he knew he wasn't the real one but just a tentacle? Maybe Sasuke let him go, but not sure..there will be a Killer bee vs X fight soon, he is on the run from both ends LOL

Amazing that when killer Bee was introduced, he went into the top 5 strongest Shinob straight away or at least the top 10. Probably mainly due to the Biju, but then again what would Itachi be without the MS? But I'm sure Killer Bee has other tricks up his sleeves then just using the Biju. :)
Itachi has more tricks up his sleeves than you think, he doesn't need MS as we think he does. For all we know, since he hates fighting, he uses MS to end a battle quickly. In his match/es, we've seen he has a lot more than Mangekyou Sharingan. Not much, but enough to know that Mangekyou isn't the only thing that makes Itachi feared.


What I didn't understand was that why Sasuke didn't try to use Kirin,or even think about using it. Where they faced, Unraikyo Mountain, there were plenty of clouds in the sky, so he could have prepared the attack whilst Suigetsu,Karin and Juugo keep getting their ass kicked by Killer Bee.

He didn't use any Shuriken attacks, Katon Jutsus, his usual stuff.

He probably needed a lot of time and knew/thought that his teammates couldn't hold their own against Killerbee long enough. Or he was too cocky to try it/wanted to try out his new powers.

Weapon_X
May 15, 2009, 03:49 PM
Itachi has more tricks up his sleeves than you think, he doesn't need MS as we think he does. For all we know, since he hates fighting, he uses MS to end a battle quickly. In his match/es, we've seen he has a lot more than Mangekyou Sharingan. Not much, but enough to know that Mangekyou isn't the only thing that makes Itachi feared.

If he did have more tricks up his sleeves then we would have seen them in the manga by now. Every battle that we have seen with Itachi, he HAS to use MS. Against Kakashi he used Tsukiyomi. Against Jiraiya's toad belly jutsu he had to use Amaterasu. 30% clone Itachi used Tsukiyomi, and when fought against Sasuke he had to use MS.

When Itachi is in trouble on base level, he has to use MS. The fact that Sasuke is better then Itachi on base level, and now that he has acquired the MS, as Franckie said, there would be a gap in power between them.

jdw
May 15, 2009, 03:54 PM
But Sasuke underestimates his opponents and wasn't as intelligent as Itachi or had similar power to him. But Killerbee did take on Suigetsu, Juugo, and Sasuke and beat them, even if with the power of bijuu. What jumped his rep IMO was his ability to control his bijuu, which was 8-Tails, most powerful after 9-Tails.
It's been said that Pain might not have beaten Jiraiya if Jiraiya knew his secret though. Jiraiya won the first round and lost the second one mostly because he didn't expect other Pains. Just an opinion though, since Pain didn't show as much fighting intelligence as few other Akatsuki have IMO.


I know he beat down Suigetsu and Juugo, I was saying that if he only beat them down it wouldn't have increased his rep that much, but because Sasuke got pwned too it increased Bee's rep. The ability to control his bijuu adds to his rep for me too :)

I know Pain said that, but the point is that Pain was shown to be a beast through his fight with Jiraiya :)

If he had just beaten up Ten Ten no one would have taken him seriously.

M3J
May 15, 2009, 05:02 PM
If he did have more tricks up his sleeves then we would have seen them in the manga by now. Every battle that we have seen with Itachi, he HAS to use MS. Against Kakashi he used Tsukiyomi. Against Jiraiya's toad belly jutsu he had to use Amaterasu. 30% clone Itachi used Tsukiyomi, and when fought against Sasuke he had to use MS.

When Itachi is in trouble on base level, he has to use MS. The fact that Sasuke is better then Itachi on base level, and now that he has acquired the MS, as Franckie said, there would be a gap in power between them.
The clone didn't use Tsukiyomi, when did he? He even admitted he couldn't use Mangekyou when Naruto was under his genjutsu. He used MS to end a battle or go out quickly; his fight with Kakashi took less than five minutes or so, because of Tsukiyomi. He took out Kakashi as quickly as possible and could have taken out Kurenai and Asuma too if Gai didn't interfere. He used Amaterasu to get out of the toad's belly because it was the only thing strong enough to destroy the wall. Only time he was in trouble on base level that we saw were when he was in Jiraiya's jutsu and when he was about to be shocked by Kirin, otherwise he seemed to hold his own on base level. Even Kakashi was having problem against Itachi, Kurenai would have probably been killed without Kakashi. Even at 30% he didn't seem to be having AS MUCH of a problem against Kakashi. And during the fight between Sasuke and Itachi, we saw them fight in base mode, at least in Sharingan mode, and despite being nearly blind and sick, Itachi did hold his own. Not totally sure if Sasuke was under genjutsu or not though.


I know he beat down Suigetsu and Juugo, I was saying that if he only beat them down it wouldn't have increased his rep that much, but because Sasuke got pwned too it increased Bee's rep. The ability to control his bijuu adds to his rep for me too :)

I know Pain said that, but the point is that Pain was shown to be a beast through his fight with Jiraiya :)

If he had just beaten up Ten Ten no one would have taken him seriously.

It would have, kind of, because Suigetsu and Juugo were shown to be powerful, Juugo at least. And Sasuke recruited them for a reason, so.
TBH, he didn't seem like THAT much of a beast to me. I'm not much of a fan of him though, so it could be bias.

EsotericExistenZ
May 15, 2009, 08:53 PM
IMO Sasuke was having such a hard time, because of his arrogance. He didn't really take killer bee seriously. If you think about it both times he was snuck; the multiple sword thing who would expect that and the second ones pretty obvious not down playing KillerB, but I think if they fought again it wouldn't seem so one sided. Sasuke really didn't have a problem reading and responding to his movements, however his unconventional fighting style caught him by surprise. Then again Its obvious who i'm rooting for lol.:p

Itachi takes this, I think of all the characters we've been shown I think Itachi is the most skilled.

Spike Spiegal
May 16, 2009, 03:43 AM
The problem is that 75% of his skill is in Genjutsu, which is stated by Bee to be pointless against him.

Sasuke may have underestimated Bee in their first exchange but, after he died the first time, I doubt he did it again.

Sasuke and Itachi's level are,more or less the same atm, after requiring the MS.
Sasuke has a more powerful (base)sharingan and is more versatile but, Itachi has complete mastery over Genjutsu and more exp.

Bee is a bad match up for Itachi, Sasuke, arguably had a better chance against bee because of his broader skill set compared to Itachi's.

I can't give Itachi the win because Susanoo can,possibly, pull out a win. because everything leading to that point would be totally dominated by Bee.

And as I've stated before, Itachi's skill set and Chakra capacity is too limited for a monster like Bee, and he relies to heavily on Sharingan/genjutsu, which bee has already shown an answer for.

choke_a_beech
May 16, 2009, 05:41 AM
Amaraetsu is probably the only jutsu Itachi had, that would have significantly hurt Bee.

anything else does not seem to have the magnitude of damage that the black fire causes. we know its effective cause Bee snapped out his 8 tail form, all burnt (although one could claim he used it as a cover to escape). but all the evidence points to it being a beastly jutsu (burnt fire frog's mouth)

Delbi
May 16, 2009, 06:30 AM
are you seriously implying that killerbee, a ninja on kage level and the second strongest in his village, does not have any jutsu just because he hasn't show them? kakashi knows over 1000 jutsu but just because he hasn't shown them all, do you think that he can't perform them? logic fail.

Killerbee is the the STRONGEST from his village, I could swear its in the Databook that Yuugito, the Two Tail Jinnchuriki was the Second Strongest, so that would make him the strongest. If anyone could confirm it that would be great.
[hr]

The problem is that 75% of his skill is in Genjutsu, which is stated by Bee to be pointless against him.

Sasuke may have underestimated Bee in their first exchange but, after he died the first time, I doubt he did it again.

Sasuke and Itachi's level are,more or less the same atm, after requiring the MS.
Sasuke has a more powerful (base)sharingan and is more versatile but, Itachi has complete mastery over Genjutsu and more exp.

Bee is a bad match up for Itachi, Sasuke, arguably had a better chance against bee because of his broader skill set compared to Itachi's.

I can't give Itachi the win because Susanoo can,possibly, pull out a win. because everything leading to that point would be totally dominated by Bee.

And as I've stated before, Itachi's skill set and Chakra capacity is too limited for a monster like Bee, and he relies to heavily on Sharingan/genjutsu, which bee has already shown an answer for.

Itachi is also a great ninjutsu user though. He's shown to be very good with Katon, and able to use Suitons. Not to mention, he may be the only person who can use KB's better than Naruto.

We also have to keep in mind he was hailed as a genius to surpass all genius' or whatever. And while Killerbee may be a monster, Itachi is damn near a God.

And while Killerbee may be able to break genjutsu, he can still be affected by it. Itachi is smart as hell, and with his amazing genjutsu skills, he'd still probably be able to trick Killerbee with it. Afterall, unlike Sauske he doesn't need to use Tsyukiyomi because he can use regular genjutsu, so he could attack immediatly after using a genjutsu on Bee without being hurt/fatigued by his MS.

As for Sussano, if Itachi whips that out, the fight is all over. Killerbee wouldn't need to hurt him, and if he got pierced by the Sword of Tosuka, he'd die.

And then there's Ameratsu, which Itachi is better at using that Sasuke. Killerbee can only escape that once he is fully transformed, otherwise, he's dead again.

As for Itachi's chakra capacity, while it may not be great, he showed it was enough to defeat a CS2 enhanced Sasuke, and then kill Orochimaru as well. He, effectively defeated two Kage Level ninja in one fight, both of whom had avaliable to them a lot of chakra.

Itachi's attacks are so powerful, that you'd need a lot of chakra to counter them with something of your own, or a lot of chakra to just escape them. Killerbee barely survived against Sasuke's Ameratsu, I'd think Itachi would kill him outright.

choke_a_beech
May 16, 2009, 06:32 AM
i thought Raikage was the strongest in the village... then Killer.

Delbi
May 16, 2009, 06:38 AM
i thought Raikage was the strongest in the village... then Killer.

The Raikage must be one strong Mofo then lol. I don't remeber it being stated that the Raikage was the strongest though.

M3J
May 16, 2009, 11:39 AM
Killerbee is the the STRONGEST from his village, I could swear its in the Databook that Yuugito, the Two Tail Jinnchuriki was the Second Strongest, so that would make him the strongest. If anyone could confirm it that would be great.
<hr noshade size="1">


Itachi is also a great ninjutsu user though. He's shown to be very good with Katon, and able to use Suitons. Not to mention, he may be the only person who can use KB's better than Naruto.

We also have to keep in mind he was hailed as a genius to surpass all genius' or whatever. And while Killerbee may be a monster, Itachi is damn near a God.

And while Killerbee may be able to break genjutsu, he can still be affected by it. Itachi is smart as hell, and with his amazing genjutsu skills, he'd still probably be able to trick Killerbee with it. Afterall, unlike Sauske he doesn't need to use Tsyukiyomi because he can use regular genjutsu, so he could attack immediatly after using a genjutsu on Bee without being hurt/fatigued by his MS.

As for Sussano, if Itachi whips that out, the fight is all over. Killerbee wouldn't need to hurt him, and if he got pierced by the Sword of Tosuka, he'd die.

And then there's Ameratsu, which Itachi is better at using that Sasuke. Killerbee can only escape that once he is fully transformed, otherwise, he's dead again.

As for Itachi's chakra capacity, while it may not be great, he showed it was enough to defeat a CS2 enhanced Sasuke, and then kill Orochimaru as well. He, effectively defeated two Kage Level ninja in one fight, both of whom had avaliable to them a lot of chakra.

Itachi's attacks are so powerful, that you'd need a lot of chakra to counter them with something of your own, or a lot of chakra to just escape them. Killerbee barely survived against Sasuke's Ameratsu, I'd think Itachi would kill him outright.

Sword of Tosuka doesn't kill anyone, it seals them, which is what he did to Orochimaru, which wasn't even a challenge so that's nothing to brag about. The fight didn't even officially begin between 'em. And as long as Killerbee's fast and keeps moving, he can dodge the Amaterasu.

Delbi
May 16, 2009, 04:08 PM
Sword of Tosuka doesn't kill anyone, it seals them, which is what he did to Orochimaru, which wasn't even a challenge so that's nothing to brag about. The fight didn't even officially begin between 'em. And as long as Killerbee's fast and keeps moving, he can dodge the Amaterasu.

The Sword of Tosuka more or less kills you, your locked into a blissful genjutsu for eternity, and are no longer among the living or so it would seem.

In any event, Ameratsu can appear anywhere the user is looking. As long as Killerbee comes into Itachi's eyesight, he can be it hit with Ameratsu seeing as how it appears instantly.

Weapon_X
May 16, 2009, 05:38 PM
The Sword of Tosuka more or less kills you, your locked into a blissful genjutsu for eternity, and are no longer among the living or so it would seem.

In any event, Ameratsu can appear anywhere the user is looking. As long as Killerbee comes into Itachi's eyesight, he can be it hit with Ameratsu seeing as how it appears instantly.

Well as far as we know The Sword of Tosuka just seals you away, meaning it removes you from the living world and locks you away into a blissful Genjutsu. Orochimaru might just be banging on the windows of the Genjutsu trying to escape, if you know what I mean? As we know his BODY was just SEALED away, but he wasn't dead. Just removed, who knows there might even be a way for him to come back. The way I see the ability of The Sword of Tosuka is like once you get sealed, you are locked away like inside a prison.

That being true that Amaterasu can appear anywhere, but Killer Bee could fool Itachi by sacrificing one of his Tentacles. He was able to fool Sasuke, wouldn't be surprised if he was able to fool Itachi.

M3J
May 16, 2009, 06:58 PM
The Sword of Tosuka more or less kills you, your locked into a blissful genjutsu for eternity, and are no longer among the living or so it would seem.

In any event, Ameratsu can appear anywhere the user is looking. As long as Killerbee comes into Itachi's eyesight, he can be it hit with Ameratsu seeing as how it appears instantly.

Killing = heart stopped, brain not functioning, basically body shut down. Body wouldn't be shut down, the mind would be in genjutsu; the mind needs to be there to be in genjutsu, meaning the person needs to be alive. Your mind may not be "there", but the body is, and it's still functioning in some way, so it's not technically dead.
Sasuke managed to avoid Amaterasu for while, I think, so Killerbee could too.


That being true that Amaterasu can appear anywhere, but Killer Bee could fool Itachi by sacrificing one of his Tentacles. He was able to fool Sasuke, wouldn't be surprised if he was able to fool Itachi.
Itachi is far more intelligent than Sasuke. Sasuke underestimates, Itachi rarely does.

Delbi
May 16, 2009, 10:14 PM
Killing = heart stopped, brain not functioning, basically body shut down. Body wouldn't be shut down, the mind would be in genjutsu; the mind needs to be there to be in genjutsu, meaning the person needs to be alive. Your mind may not be "there", but the body is, and it's still functioning in some way, so it's not technically dead.
Sasuke managed to avoid Amaterasu for while, I think, so Killerbee could too.


When the orginal Orochimaru comes back to join the living, let me know. Sealed or dead, he's not going to be fighting anyone anytime soon, if not ever again. If he someone gets sealed, they lose the fight, wherever they go, they are no longer able to fight.

And Sasuke avoided Ameratsu because Itachi first summoned it to stop Sasuke's Katon. When Sasuke used it on Killerbee, he showed us that the attack is impossible to avoid if it's summoned on to you with the intent of killing you.
[hr]


That being true that Amaterasu can appear anywhere, but Killer Bee could fool Itachi by sacrificing one of his Tentacles. He was able to fool Sasuke, wouldn't be surprised if he was able to fool Itachi.

And he'd have to be fully transformed to do that, otherwise he would die. And Itachi isn't Sasuke.

Spike Spiegal
May 17, 2009, 01:44 AM
Itachi is also a great ninjutsu user though. He's shown to be very good with Katon, and able to use Suitons. Not to mention, he may be the only person who can use KB's better than Naruto.
Where is that statement coming from?All I recall is Itachi's exploding KB, other than that, I don't remember him doing anything significant in terms of KB, on the other hand, Naruto has elevated the technique to an unheard of level, and can do things Itachi could never dream of doing with KBs, he's used KBs effectively on the likes of shinobi like Kakuzu and Pain.

Also, a couple of mid level Sui and Katon jutsu here and there isn't impressive and can't be used to descibe a great ninjutsu user.


We also have to keep in mind he was hailed as a genius to surpass all genius' or whatever. And while Killerbee may be a monster, Itachi is damn near a God.
This is a fanboy's statement.
Other than his MS techs, which where practically given to him, he has shown nothing that can even be considered above jounin level.
His chakra capacity, variety of ninjutsu, his ability in Taijutsu, and his application of elemental Ninjutsu are very far from God-like.


And while Killerbee may be able to break genjutsu, he can still be affected by it. Itachi is smart as hell, and with his amazing genjutsu skills, he'd still probably be able to trick Killerbee with it. Afterall, unlike Sauske he doesn't need to use Tsyukiyomi because he can use regular genjutsu, so he could attack immediatly after using a genjutsu on Bee without being hurt/fatigued by his MS.
How do you figure? The only reason that Tsukiyomi affected Bee for a couple of seconds is because of it's ability to do mental damage, regular genjutsu doesn't have that effect, and is much weaker in general, so it would only be easier to break out of, not to mention, useless on itachi's part since there would be literally no damage taken by Bee, who would then be freed within a fraction of a second.


As for Sussano, if Itachi whips that out, the fight is all over. Killerbee wouldn't need to hurt him, and if he got pierced by the Sword of Tosuka, he'd die.
If Itachi takes Susanoo out it would mean the end for at least Itachi, since its a life consuming last defense technique, Itachi would then have to pierce Bee and hope his genjutsu would even work against him.


And then there's Ameratsu, which Itachi is better at using that Sasuke. Killerbee can only escape that once he is fully transformed, otherwise, he's dead again.
Not to sound rude, but, I don't understand why people keep using these statements. Itachi is not significantly better at using MS techniques compared to Sasuke. If you believe he is then show me evidence.
Also, Bee used a jutsu to substitute himself with an object(tail), show me a jutsu, used by a host, that can only be used exclusively in a certain bijuu state(and no other state). A host's jutsu can be used at anytime and was not mentioned to have any prerequisites.


As for Itachi's chakra capacity, while it may not be great, he showed it was enough to defeat a CS2 enhanced Sasuke, and then kill Orochimaru as well. He, effectively defeated two Kage Level ninja in one fight, both of whom had avaliable to them a lot of chakra.
we don't know how much chakra Oro had(which turned out to be irrelevent anyways) and you make the statement as if there was an actual fight between Oro and Itachi, also it can be debated if Sasuke, at that point, was Kage level.


Itachi's attacks are so powerful, that you'd need a lot of chakra to counter them with something of your own, or a lot of chakra to just escape them. Killerbee barely survived against Sasuke's Ameratsu, I'd think Itachi would kill him outright.
Well,Bee has a monstrous amount of chakra and at least one jutsu to escape Ama, and basic knowledge of the jutsu. Again, Itachi's use of Ama would not be much different than Sasuke's.


And Sasuke avoided Ameratsu because Itachi first summoned it to stop Sasuke's Katon. When Sasuke used it on Killerbee, he showed us that the attack is impossible to avoid if it's summoned on to you with the intent of killing you.
As stated by Zetsu, amaterasu's flames converge onto it's target, it's been confirmed that you can out run it, if only for a short time, and we have never really seen if Ama is instantaneous, and can't be considered so, since it's only been shown after it's been used, also 8 tails form was the biggest reason he couldn't avoid the jutsu, but then again, Bee showed us that avoiding it wasn't necessary.

M3J
May 17, 2009, 02:59 AM
Not being among the living doesn't mean he isn't living. If an animal is on an island devoid of any living thing, not among the living, does that mean it itself isn't alive?
Second time Itachi summoned it though, Sasuke was nearly successful (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/04/) in avoiding it, he got caught because he wanted to as part of his plan.

Hauradrims3
May 17, 2009, 11:23 AM
Not being among the living doesn't mean he isn't living. If an animal is on an island devoid of any living thing, not among the living, does that mean it itself isn't alive?
Second time Itachi summoned it though, Sasuke was nearly successful (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/04/) in avoiding it, he got caught because he wanted to as part of his plan.

Either that or Itachi wanted to give sasuke enough time to do oro's tech.

Also notice how right after Itachi split the amaterasu, he looked directly at sasuke. At that point, the amaterasu hit sasuke directly.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/06/

It doesent really make much sense for sasuke to say that amaterasu is unavoidable if he was able to avoid it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/17/

roma
May 17, 2009, 01:55 PM
i'd give this fight to itachi. i think everyone who voted for itachi has pretty much stated valid reasons why he'll win this fight. seems to me like every akatsuki member is skilled enough to defeat a bijuu or a jinchuuriki.

Weapon_X
May 17, 2009, 03:17 PM
i'd give this fight to itachi. i think everyone who voted for itachi has pretty much stated valid reasons why he'll win this fight. seems to me like every akatsuki member is skilled enough to defeat a bijuu or a jinchuuriki.

Apart fron NARUTO! THE MAN OF THE SHOW! ^_^

Delbi
May 17, 2009, 04:58 PM
It doesent really make much sense for sasuke to say that amaterasu is unavoidable if he was able to avoid it http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/17/

There's a difference between being unavoidable, and unescapable. Ameratsu has been shown to be impossible to dodge if the user wants to hit you with it, there for, it is unavoidable.

However, once you are hit by the jutsu, you can escape it, if you have the neccessary tools.

Liof
May 17, 2009, 05:10 PM
we didnt see all off killerbee's skills...
But NEITHER did we see all of itachi's skills...
We NEVER saw him going all out trying to kill anyone. Cause when he fought Sasuke he was just demonstrating The MS cause he wanted sasuke to know what it's capable of.

And we also dont know for sure if Itachi was really sick... or was suffering from side effects in his fight vs sasuke.

But I do believe Itachi would have won... since in akatsuki they all fought bijuu ... i guess they do know what they're doing.

Delbi
May 17, 2009, 05:25 PM
Where is that statement coming from?All I recall is Itachi's exploding KB, other than that, I don't remember him doing anything significant in terms of KB, on the other hand, Naruto has elevated the technique to an unheard of level, and can do things Itachi could never dream of doing with KBs, he's used KBs effectively on the likes of shinobi like Kakuzu and Pain.

Naruto's use of KB is due to his massive chakra pool, without which, he could never do half the things he does. Itachi however, uses KB's so fast, you don't even know he's using them, he can make them explode, etc. Naruto's tactical use of the jutsu is very good, but his actual use of the jutsu has yet to surpass Itachi's.



Also, a couple of mid level Sui and Katon jutsu here and there isn't impressive and can't be used to descibe a great ninjutsu user.

He has a 5 in ninjutsu in the databook. I'd say he's pretty damn good at it.




This is a fanboy's statement.
Other than his MS techs, which where practically given to him, he has shown nothing that can even be considered above jounin level.
His chakra capacity, variety of ninjutsu, his ability in Taijutsu, and his application of elemental Ninjutsu are very far from God-like.

He became an ANBU Captain at 13 years old. He was said to be a genius to surpass all geniuses, he killed his entire clan overnight. (We don't know what part Madara played in the actual murder, he could of just helped Itachi plan.) He was able to bring Orochimaru, a Sannin and Hokage candidate to his knees. And his MS techniques are his blood given abilities, just like Naruto's stamina, or Shkia's intelligence. He has a 5 in ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu in the dataook. And while he had a sickness that was killing him, he defeated both Sauske and Orochimaru in the same fight. I'd say he's God Like.




How do you figure? The only reason that Tsukiyomi affected Bee for a couple of seconds is because of it's ability to do mental damage, regular genjutsu doesn't have that effect, and is much weaker in general, so it would only be easier to break out of, not to mention, useless on itachi's part since there would be literally no damage taken by Bee, who would then be freed within a fraction of a second.

Umm, regular genjutsu affects the senses, which affects the mind. Genjutsu tricks the mind into believing something that is false through the senses, Tsyukyomi accomplshes this through eye contact.

And it was not a fraction of a second in which Bee broke Tsyukiyomi, he fell face down, then got up and attacked Sasuke. With Itachi's speed, that would be more than enough time to hurt or kill Killerbee.

And lets not forget, Itachi used a regular genjutsu on Orochimaru that completely paralyzed him that was not Tsyukiyomi, and Orochimaru couldn't break it.




If Itachi takes Susanoo out it would mean the end for at least Itachi, since its a life consuming last defense technique, Itachi would then have to pierce Bee and hope his genjutsu would even work against him.

We don't know if Sussano would kill a healthy Itachi. He was already sick when he began fighting Sasuke, it's likely that due to chakra exuastion and the use of Sussano, he had nothing left and his body finally gave out.

As for Sussano's genjutsu, its more of a sealing technique. It seals you into a blissful genjutsu for all eternity. So, it does not work like a regular genjutsu, and technically, Killerbee won't be able to break out of it, especially if his Biju is also trapped in it.




Not to sound rude, but, I don't understand why people keep using these statements. Itachi is not significantly better at using MS techniques compared to Sasuke. If you believe he is then show me evidence.
Also, Bee used a jutsu to substitute himself with an object(tail), show me a jutsu, used by a host, that can only be used exclusively in a certain bijuu state(and no other state). A host's jutsu can be used at anytime and was not mentioned to have any prerequisites.

Ok, Itachi's use of Ameratsu, and the amount he is able to summon is greater than Sasuke's. But that's really irrelevant, so let's just say their can use of Ameratsu is equal.

But understand how a replacement technique works, and why Killerbee was able to escape Ameratsu.

1) To use a replacement technique effectively, you have to replace your body with something before your body is attacked by a jutsu.

2) Ameratsu, appears instantly, anywhere the user is looking. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/02-03/ Sasuke was looking at Killerbee in the previous panel, then bam! Ameratsu hit him in the face instantly.

3) Killerbee was able to replace himself with a tenticle, because his actual body never got hit with Ameratsu. Biju are giant chakra entities. When Jinchuriki transform, their bodies are enveloped by chakra, their actual body isn't affected by attacks. When Killerbee got hit with Ameratsu, his actual body was never hit. So he was able to henge a tenticle into his body, which allowed the real him to escape.

If Killerbee got his with Ameratsu, he'd need Orochimaru's Replacement technique to shed his skin to escape. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if he replaced himself, he'd still be on fire.



we don't know how much chakra Oro had(which turned out to be irrelevent anyways) and you make the statement as if there was an actual fight between Oro and Itachi, also it can be debated if Sasuke, at that point, was Kage level.

In any event, Itachi defeated both Sasuke and Orochimaru. It just goes to show how powerful Itachi is that he could defeat Orochimaru while he was using his most powerful technique, with Sussano.



Well,Bee has a monstrous amount of chakra and at least one jutsu to escape Ama, and basic knowledge of the jutsu. Again, Itachi's use of Ama would not be much different than Sasuke's.

True, but would Killerbee know Itachi had the same jutsu as Sasuke? Also, Sasuke didn't even know he could use Ameratsu in his fight with Killerbee until he did. Itachi knows full well how to use Ameratsu and whatnot. Also, Killerbee still got hit, and Sasuke put out the flames. If Itachi is going to kill him, he's going to burn ever last piece of him.



As stated by Zetsu, amaterasu's flames converge onto it's target, it's been confirmed that you can out run it, if only for a short time, and we have never really seen if Ama is instantaneous, and can't be considered so, since it's only been shown after it's been used, also 8 tails form was the biggest reason he couldn't avoid the jutsu, but then again, Bee showed us that avoiding it wasn't necessary.

And again, he could only escape Ameratsu while transformed, which would drain him of most of his chakra, not to mention being that big would make him a giant target.

And where was it stated that Ameratsu's flames converage on the target?

Hauradrims3
May 17, 2009, 05:30 PM
There's a difference between being unavoidable, and unescapable. Ameratsu has been shown to be impossible to dodge if the user wants to hit you with it, there for, it is unavoidable.

However, once you are hit by the jutsu, you can escape it, if you have the neccessary tools.

my bad, what i ment to say is that it wouldent make sense for sasuke to say that amaterasu is unavoidable if he had the potential to outrun it.

Delbi
May 17, 2009, 05:36 PM
my bad, what i ment to say is that it wouldent make sense for sasuke to say that amaterasu is unavoidable if he had the potential to outrun it.

Well, he did get caught eventually. But I guess if they weren't summoned right on top of you, and you were extremely fast, you could outrun it. That would however, require you to have speed surpassing significantly, and Sasuke is one of the fastest shinobi in the manga.

roma
May 17, 2009, 08:32 PM
Apart fron NARUTO! THE MAN OF THE SHOW! ^_^

ah... yes. i forgot to add that. hehe... but come to thnk of it, itachi could've taken him in in part 1 and during shippuuden if he really wanted to before naruto's powerups.
[hr]

Where is that statement coming from?All I recall is Itachi's exploding KB, other than that, I don't remember him doing anything significant in terms of KB, on the other hand, Naruto has elevated the technique to an unheard of level, and can do things Itachi could never dream of doing with KBs, he's used KBs effectively on the likes of shinobi like Kakuzu and Pain.
I'm actually quite surprised with this comment because from all the naruto posts i've read here, many seem to be disappointed with naruto for spamming his KBs. while naruto now uses his KBs effectively it doesn't mean itachi isn't good with it. his opponent doesn't even realize he performed a KB and we've seen kakashi and sasuke get amazed with this. he doesn't use a lot of KBs like naruto does but in the two fights we've seen him use it we know he can use it efficiently and effectively.




Also, a couple of mid level Sui and Katon jutsu here and there isn't impressive and can't be used to descibe a great ninjutsu user.

This is a fanboy's statement.
Other than his MS techs, which where practically given to him, he has shown nothing that can even be considered above jounin level.
His chakra capacity, variety of ninjutsu, his ability in Taijutsu, and his application of elemental Ninjutsu are very far from God-like.

probably because he doesn't have to use really high levels of taijutsu and ninjutsu to defeat an opponent. the DB did state he has 5 in ninjutsu and 4.5 in taijutsu.

his chakra capacity isn't large because he was ill and dying. the rules of this fight did say he was healthy so expect a larger capacity that most uchiha seem to have.

Spike Spiegal
May 18, 2009, 01:40 AM
Naruto's use of KB is due to his massive chakra pool, without which, he could never do half the things he does. Itachi however, uses KB's so fast, you don't even know he's using them, he can make them explode, etc. Naruto's tactical use of the jutsu is very good, but his actual use of the jutsu has yet to surpass Itachi's.
Are you serious? I'm pretty sure his speed comes from the handseals and not the actual use of KB, he's a genjutsu user, it's just and assumption but, it wouldn't surprise me if he uses gen to hide the bunshin,more importantly, how is that using it better than Naruto? Naruto disguised a hundred bunshin as rocks, and Pain didn't figure it out until after the fact.

I really don't see how this is even arguable, he can make fast hand seals,which has nothing to do with his use of KB, and he can explode his bunshin, if you put an exploding tag on a bunshin you would get the same effect.

He has a 5 in ninjutsu in the databook. I'd say he's pretty damn good at it.

Manga evidence leads me to believe that most of that comes from his high level MS techs.


He became an ANBU Captain at 13 years old. He was said to be a genius to surpass all geniuses, he killed his entire clan overnight. (We don't know what part Madara played in the actual murder, he could of just helped Itachi plan.) He was able to bring Orochimaru, a Sannin and Hokage candidate to his knees. And his MS techniques are his blood given abilities, just like Naruto's stamina, or Shkia's intelligence. He has a 5 in ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu in the dataook. And while he had a sickness that was killing him, he defeated both Sauske and Orochimaru in the same fight. I'd say he's God Like.
Madara helped in the massacre, what's with Itachi fans giving all the credit to him when it's stated that it wasn't a solo act.

Kakashi's resume is just as impressive yet, would you call him God-like.
Jiriaya stats are equal to Itachi's without even going into HM, would you call Jiraiya a God?

Naruto beat the strongest fighter in the manga so far.
Killer Bee raped Sasuke in 2 min, while Itachi lost to him.

I wouldn't call these fighters God-like.

Umm, regular genjutsu affects the senses, which affects the mind. Genjutsu tricks the mind into believing something that is false through the senses, Tsyukyomi accomplshes this through eye contact.
You've missed the point, Tsukiyomi is more powerful in every way compared to reg genjutsu, it would be useless to use lesser genjutsu after your strongest has been broken, Itachi's genjutsu will effect the host but, the bijuu is the one who is breaking, this has all been stated in the manga...

And it was not a fraction of a second in which Bee broke Tsyukiyomi, he fell face down, then got up and attacked Sasuke. With Itachi's speed, that would be more than enough time to hurt or kill Killerbee.
He broke the genjutsu within a sec. but the effects of the Tsuki(the paralysis), lasted a couple of more secs. None of Itachi's jutsu that he can effectively use within 3 seconds would kill Bee.

And lets not forget, Itachi used a regular genjutsu on Orochimaru that completely paralyzed him that was not Tsyukiyomi, and Orochimaru couldn't break it.
Orochimaru wasn't a jinchuriki who had complete cooperation from his bijuu either.

We don't know if Sussano would kill a healthy Itachi. He was already sick when he began fighting Sasuke, it's likely that due to chakra exuastion and the use of Sussano, he had nothing left and his body finally gave out.
Yes, Itachi died from life/energy exhaustion,Itachi used/uses susanoo as a last resort when already exhausted, so it would still kill him, sickness or not.

As for Sussano's genjutsu, its more of a sealing technique. It seals you into a blissful genjutsu for all eternity. So, it does not work like a regular genjutsu, and technically, Killerbee won't be able to break out of it, especially if his Biju is also trapped in it.
This is an assumption, we don't know how his sword would work if he pierced the bijuu's chakra and not Bee himself, or if bee was pierced exclusively , would the bijuu be able to break the genjutsu(Bee stated genjutsu in general).Also, we don't even know if Itachi would be able/get the chance to peirce Bee.

Ok, Itachi's use of Ameratsu, and the amount he is able to summon is greater than Sasuke's. But that's really irrelevant, so let's just say their can use of Ameratsu is equal.

But understand how a replacement technique works, and why Killerbee was able to escape Ameratsu.

1) To use a replacement technique effectively, you have to replace your body with something before your body is attacked by a jutsu.

2) Ameratsu, appears instantly, anywhere the user is looking. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/02-03/ Sasuke was looking at Killerbee in the previous panel, then bam! Ameratsu hit him in the face instantly.

3) Killerbee was able to replace himself with a tenticle, because his actual body never got hit with Ameratsu. Biju are giant chakra entities. When Jinchuriki transform, their bodies are enveloped by chakra, their actual body isn't affected by attacks. When Killerbee got hit with Ameratsu, his actual body was never hit. So he was able to henge a tenticle into his body, which allowed the real him to escape.

If Killerbee got his with Ameratsu, he'd need Orochimaru's Replacement technique to shed his skin to escape. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if he replaced himself, he'd still be on fire.
I understand where your coming from but that wasn't my point, I was arguing his ability to use the jutsu in any circumstance that he is able, meaning he can use his jutsu in 1-8 tails and have a chakra shroud to give him the opportunity to escape.
also, where is it stated in the manga that amaterasu's flames appear on the target instantly?

In any event, Itachi defeated both Sasuke and Orochimaru. It just goes to show how powerful Itachi is that he could defeat Orochimaru while he was using his most powerful technique, with Sussano.
Orochimaru was arrogant and let Itachi strike him, he killed Oro but, you make it sound like he did it in a all out battle(it lasted like 5 seconds), which they've never had.

True, but would Killerbee know Itachi had the same jutsu as Sasuke? Also, Sasuke didn't even know he could use Ameratsu in his fight with Killerbee until he did. Itachi knows full well how to use Ameratsu and whatnot. Also, Killerbee still got hit, and Sasuke put out the flames. If Itachi is going to kill him, he's going to burn ever last piece of him.
Whether Bee knows Itachi has the jutsu is irrelevant, Bee had no knowledge before, yet he still escaped, and now he has knowledge of the jutsu, when Itachi chooses to use it.

And again, he could only escape Ameratsu while transformed, which would drain him of most of his chakra, not to mention being that big would make him a giant target.
like I stated already, he used a jutsu to escape, it could still successfully work if he used it in any tailed mode.

And where was it stated that Ameratsu's flames converage on the target?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/03/

Delbi
May 18, 2009, 02:25 AM
Are you serious? I'm pretty sure his speed comes from the handseals and not the actual use of KB, he's a genjutsu user, it's just and assumption but, it wouldn't surprise me if he uses gen to hide the bunshin,more importantly, how is that using it better than Naruto? Naruto disguised a hundred bunshin as rocks, and Pain didn't figure it out until after the fact.

I really don't see how this is even arguable, he can make fast hand seals,which has nothing to do with his use of KB, and he can explode his bunshin, if you put an exploding tag on a bunshin you would get the same effect.

Ability to use the handseals in a jutsu is part of your ability to use a jutsu. Kakashi and Sasuke have shown they are so skilled with Chidori that they no longer require handseals.

Also, when Naruto made the KB's into rocks, again, that's his tactical use of them. I never doubted Naruto's skill with KB's, but Itachi has shown that his use of KB's are also very good.



Manga evidence leads me to believe that most of that comes from his high level MS techs.

Sussano is a summoning technique, and Tsyukiyomi is a genjutsu. Only Ameratsu is a ninjutsu. I think he would need more than Ameratsu to have a 5 in the ninjutsu category. He's already shown to have good ninjutsu skills, and was hailed




Madara helped in the massacre, what's with Itachi fans giving all the credit to him when it's stated that it wasn't a solo act.

Kakashi's resume is just as impressive yet, would you call him God-like.
Jiriaya stats are equal to Itachi's without even going into HM, would you call Jiraiya a God?

Naruto beat the strongest fighter in the manga so far.
Killer Bee raped Sasuke in 2 min, while Itachi lost to him.

I wouldn't call these fighters God-like.

When Madara states his part in the Uchiha massacure, then we can know for sure. As of right now, it would seem Itachi killed the majority of them if not all of them.

Kakashi's resume doesn't compare to Itachi's. Itachi was able to defeat a Sannin with one genjutsu, the same Sannin who Kakashi shit his pants in front of.

I would also say Jiraiya is God-like.

Naruto defeated Pain while Pain was without Deva initially, while Naruto had prior knowledge of his powers, while Naruto had 2 sages, and 3 boss level summons with him, while Naruto had two Sage Mode KB's stashed away, and after he went 8 tails and was somehow fine. If you remeber, as soon as Deva activated himself, he had Naruto dead to rights. Also Pain wasn't trying to kill Naruto.

Itachi fought Sasuke with the intention of losing, he never wanted to kill his brother. He also had to deal with Orochimaru, and the business of seperating him from Sasuke. And if he wanted too, Itachi could of killed Sasuke numerous times, including with Sussano.

As for Killerbee curbing Sasuke, yes that happened, but as soon as Sasuke whipped out Ameratsu, Killerbee was done for.

I firmly believe that Jiraiya and Itachi are the strongest ninja that we have seen in the manga, and that, yes, they are God-like.



You've missed the point, Tsukiyomi is more powerful in every way compared to reg genjutsu, it would be useless to use lesser genjutsu after your strongest has been broken, Itachi's genjutsu will effect the host but, the bijuu is the one who is breaking, this has all been stated in the manga...

Itachi's regular genjutsu would still distract Killerbee though. Killerbee would still have to break out of it. So instead of hurting himself by using Tsyukiyomi to distract or paralyze Killerbee for a few seconds, he could use a regular genjutsu.



He broke the genjutsu within a sec. but the effects of the Tsuki(the paralysis), lasted a couple of more secs. None of Itachi's jutsu that he can effectively use within 3 seconds would kill Bee.

A kunai to the head would kill him, he doesn't need to use a jutsu.



Yes, Itachi died from life/energy exhaustion,Itachi used/uses susanoo as a last resort when already exhausted, so it would still kill him, sickness or not.

This is an assumption by you. Sussano is said to be a life draining technique, but like Shinra Tensei. No where does it say it kills you though, it merely drains your life. If Itachi were healthy, it's likely he would of survived using Sussano.



This is an assumption, we don't know how his sword would work if he pierced the bijuu's chakra and not Bee himself, or if bee was pierced exclusively , would the bijuu be able to break the genjutsu(Bee stated genjutsu in general).Also, we don't even know if Itachi would be able/get the chance to peirce Bee.

We don't know if Bee would ever touch Itachi seeing as how fast and intelligent Itachi is. It's likely that Itachi would pierce Bee, and The Sword of Tosouka does more than seal you, it actually cuts you. So even if the sealing didn't work, which is very unlikely I would think, Killerbee would still have a giant sword sticking through his chest, and it remains to be seen if he heas healing abilities like Naruto does.



I understand where your coming from but that wasn't my point, I was arguing his ability to use the jutsu in any circumstance that he is able, meaning he can use his jutsu in 1-8 tails and have a chakra shroud to give him the opportunity to escape.
also, where is it stated in the manga that amaterasu's flames appear on the target instantly?

We have no idea if he can use the jutsu in any circumstance though. That's like me saying that Naruto can use that menacing ball jutsu he does when he goes Kyuubi while he's in Sage Mode. We both know he can't.

Killerbee was able to replace himself with a tenticle, he has no tenticle's unless he is fully transformed.

If he gets hit with Ameratsu, again, he'd need to pull an Orochimaru and literally shed his skin to escape the flames, which he can't do.

As for Ameratsu being instantanious, look at the manga. Whenever they are summoned, they come out of no where as soon as either Itachi or Sasuke's eyes turn MS. I believe it's also stated in the databook that Ameratsu's flames appear wherever the user is looking.



Orochimaru was arrogant and let Itachi strike him, he killed Oro but, you make it sound like he did it in a all out battle(it lasted like 5 seconds), which they've never had.


That's the thing, Itachi has a jutsu so powerful that he can kill a Sannin in an instant. That was my point, he put Orochimaru down in a second, as if it was nothing. Mind you, Orochimaru survived a battle with the 4 tailed Kyuubi, he's extremely hard to kill, and Itachi killed him like he was a bug.

M3J
May 18, 2009, 02:42 AM
Kakashi's resume is just as impressive yet, would you call him God-like.

Naruto beat the strongest fighter in the manga so far.
Killer Bee raped Sasuke in 2 min, while Itachi lost to him.
Kakashi's resume isn't as impressive; Kakashi felt fear when he saw Orochimaru while trying to protect Sasuke. He didn't technically beat Deidara and didn't have an upper hand against Itachi in their first fight. In the second, it was more equal, but would he have won without Naruto doing Oodama Rasengan?
Naruto had easier time beating the so-called strongest fighter because Deva Pain couldn't use his power yet. Naruto couldn't even land a hit against Tobi, neither could his comrades.
Itachi lost to Sasuke because he wanted to. Itachi was doing pretty well for just trying to exhaust Sasuke and get Orochimaru out.

Itachi didn't kill Orochimaru. He's not dead, just in a genjutsu. Where's it say he's dead?

jdw
May 18, 2009, 02:49 AM
Itachi didn't kill Orochimaru. He's not dead, just in a genjutsu. Where's it say he's dead?

You and delbi45 had this identical exchange one page back -_-;

his reply:


When the orginal Orochimaru comes back to join the living, let me know. Sealed or dead, he's not going to be fighting anyone anytime soon, if not ever again. If he someone gets sealed, they lose the fight, wherever they go, they are no longer able to fight.

M3J
May 18, 2009, 02:56 AM
I remember. But just because they're sealed doesn't mean they're dead. That's like saying the Kyuubi's dead. Orochimaru is dead if his heart stops beating and his body stops working, including his brain. If that happens, genjutsu doesn't work since none of the senses is used.

jdw
May 18, 2009, 02:58 AM
I remember. But just because they're sealed doesn't mean they're dead. That's like saying the Kyuubi's dead. Orochimaru is dead if his heart stops beating and his body stops working, including his brain. If that happens, genjutsu doesn't work since none of the senses is used.

I agree with you that Oro isn't dead, and that he is sealed in a blissful genjutsu.

Delbi
May 18, 2009, 04:17 AM
I remember. But just because they're sealed doesn't mean they're dead. That's like saying the Kyuubi's dead. Orochimaru is dead if his heart stops beating and his body stops working, including his brain. If that happens, genjutsu doesn't work since none of the senses is used.

Orochimaru is gone, he's sealed up, and as far as we know, he has no way of getting out of an eternal blissful genjutsu. He couldn't break Itachi's regular paralyzing genjutsu, I doubt he's getting out of this one.

He's as good as dead, let's leave it at that.

wildG
May 18, 2009, 04:37 AM
Orochimaru is gone, he's sealed up, and as far as we know, he has no way of getting out of an eternal blissful genjutsu. He couldn't break Itachi's regular paralyzing genjutsu, I doubt he's getting out of this one.

He's as good as dead, let's leave it at that.

also if i remember well in databooks, oro has 5 on gejutsu... imo just imagine the gap of power in between a sharingan genjutsu user and a normal shinobi..

ninjabot
May 18, 2009, 04:46 PM
The REAL question should be: "Will Orochimaru's soul somehow manage to migrate to Kabuto's body once Orochimaru's cells completely overtake him."

In fact, Orochimaru himself may not be sealed at all (his soul and consciousness I mean) because Itachi didn't absorb all of him (the portion that is within Kabuto still exists outside of the Totsuka's Genjutsu realm). Oro remained subdued within Sasuke's body and prolonged his life, why not do so in Kabuto's?

All speculation ofcourse.

Belisar
May 18, 2009, 05:02 PM
I disagree with your first point. Although it is possible that the genjutsu he used was not Tsukuyomi, I think it more likely than not was Tsukuyomi. First off, Tsukuyomi is the only genjutsu we have seen that has inverted colors (black=white and vice versa), so that happened, plus, the pain that Sasuke endured after he used the genjutsu, he was basically bending over in pain, hoping to get a rest from the genjutsu he put Killerbee in. I personally think that it is Tsukuyomi,
it was tsukuyomi. tsukuyomi allows the user to create a world like he wants to. sometimes it's black and red but it can also be realistic.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/13/

lomami
May 18, 2009, 05:42 PM
Pretty interesting fight. My vote goes to MC KillaBee.
The genjutsu is out (well explained by a bunch of folks), Killabee can escape Amaterasu, as he did from Sasuke, or IMHO as 8tailed Kyubi did from Chibaku Tensei: just because those bijuu are f***ing very strong.
Now for Susanoo the way Itachi used it against Sasuke was suicide attack, we cannot determine its extent in a fight Itachi has decided to win AND survive. He would use it to protect against strong raiton and black chakra balls, but trying to seal the 8tail is obviously out of question as it would be suicide.
Then if you take appart the monsters jutsus both have in taijutsu Killerbee kicks ass senjutsu level; plus we can figure that mastering a high tailed bijuu (8 tails, 9 tails) makes you fight on another level (Pain freaked out seeing Kyubi 8 running away from his jutsu! and true he is stronger than Itachi). So I think on a one on one deathmatch he would win.
But
On the other hand, I would like to add two things:
-Itachi is smart enough to know when he has to run away! and
-The pair Itachi/Kisame has a total chance! Guessing they can give some good Akatsuki teamwork when they have to (a la Hidan and Kakuzu: best two men team seen) they would have do the job. Not easily.

Franckie
May 18, 2009, 09:17 PM
I disagree with your first point. Although it is possible that the genjutsu he used was not Tsukuyomi, I think it more likely than not was Tsukuyomi. First off, Tsukuyomi is the only genjutsu we have seen that has inverted colors (black=white and vice versa), so that happened, plus, the pain that Sasuke endured after he used the genjutsu, he was basically bending over in pain, hoping to get a rest from the genjutsu he put Killerbee in. I personally think that it is Tsukuyomi, but even if it isn't, it wouldn't matter if it "puts you in a coma", oh right, it doesn't put you in a coma. It makes 3 seconds seem like 72 hours. That's more along the lines of altering time and space in another dimension (which is exactly waht Itachi described it to be), where does it say it puts the victm into a coma? Kakashi went into a coma since he was overloaded from the pain endured from the genjutsu, completely understandable, to be stabbed by a katana for 72 hours straight is just painful, I could imagine worse but really, it still is pretty bad. If Killerbee can break out of the Tsukuyomi before he is overwhelmed by pain, then it doesn't matter if it's instantenous or if the pain potentially caused could put him into a coma, because it instantaneously stuns him for 3 seconds if he doesn't realize the whole time that he is in a genjutsu, and he won't endure enough pain to be put into a coma.

Tsukuyomi only lasts a second in the real world, but it does leave the victim in a coma as Sasuke and Kakashi demonstrated. An ordinary genjutsu can be broken, but a coma can't. This would incapacitate Killer Bee, allowing Taka to take him to the Akatsuki alive. Exactly as they were supposed to do.

Sasuke using his Mangekyou Sharingan, the colour scheme of the genjutsu, and Sasuke's exhaustion afterwards all point to it having been Tsukuyomi. Still, what Sasuke used does not fit any of Tsukuyomi's characteristics which have been consistantly held in the manga. Until explicit proof exists that what Sasuke used was Tsukuyomi, what Killer Bee broke was not Tsukuyomi.


Anyhow, I still see Itachi as stronger than Sasuke, not way stronger, but still stronger. For the first part, he's just plain smarter than Sasuke, in both mentality and battle tactics, the fact that Sasuke goes into a fight underestimating his opponents and believing he can win with just taijutsu is just plain stupid and arrogant. Then the fact that Itachi has more experience with the MS, and we don't even know if Sasuke is confirmed to have Susanoo, and if he does, if he has the two items (the shield and the sword) that make it so deadly. Lastly, don't say that Itachi would lose without MS. He built much of his fighting tactics around MS, so without MS, he would have likely had more conventional jutsu to supplement his fighting skills rather than relying more on MS jutsu. That's like saying if Naruto didn't have Kyuubi, he'd be an awful ninja, if he didn't have kyuubi, he'd have better chakra control, he'd have parents to raise him to be a great ninja, and he wouldn't be shunned by the village which lead him to be a troublemaker till he met Iruka. I'm just not a fan of these "if" situations.

Itachi hasn't shown any battle tactics that are considered inherently superior to what Sasuke has shown. His answer for every battle is to stare the opponent to death.

Itachi would lose to Sasuke without the Mangekyou Sharingan because he has nothing in his arsenal to compete with what Sasuke has shown. For example, Itachi has no defense against Kirin. The only field Itachi surpasses Sasuke in is genjutsu, which is useless against Sasuke. To put it simply, no MS and no genjutsu = Get that genin-level Itachi out of here.


1. We don't even know if MS enchants any SHG genjutsu or any other ability. All we know that it gives the user 3 new jutsus. And whether Tsukiyomi or not(which I still believe it is), it's still an MS genjutsu.

2. Hardly? Aren't you forgetting that Sasuke also lost his CS and Oro powerup which he had against Itachi? Not to mention the fact that Itachi was holding back? Sasuke isn't close to Itachi just yet.

1: No explicit proof exists that what Sasuke used against Killer Bee was Tsukuyomi. As I suggested in a previous post, it could be the MS-version of Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/).

2: CS simply enhanced Sasuke's base-skills which were already shown to be equal, if not superior, to Itachi's. The purpose of the Oro power-up outside of giving Sasuke a very simple, yet effective means of negating Amaterasu was to give Itachi a target for Susano-O in order to properly demonstrate it's effect. Even without the Oro power-up, Sasuke simply would have come up with another means of negating Amaterasu.

Holding back? Hardly. Itachi didn't think Sasuke would escape Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. The only time he held back was when Sasuke forced him to unleash Susano-O, and it was only after witnessing Sasuke utilizing Oro's unique kawarimi that Itachi realized that Sasuke had absorbed Orochimaru.


Eitherway, this match simply boils down on luck. Both are pretty much evenly match overall with each having their own advantage. With their cards played right, both has the potential to win it. Having said that, this would be a close matchup in which the winner would probably be injured badly.
Agreed.


Apart fron NARUTO! THE MAN OF THE SHOW! ^_^

Uh, no. Part II now has 200 chapters and Naruto has yet to win a fight without getting bailed out by somebody. He's been humiliated by Deidara, Kakuzu, Madara, Sasuke, Itachi x2, and Pein Rikudou x3. He's a joke of a titular character.

EsotericExistenZ
May 18, 2009, 09:33 PM
To put it simply, no MS and no genjutsu = Get that genin-level Itachi out of here.


Really man, He was playing kakashi like a fiddle before he even whiped out MS. Not to mention his motives conflicted with really killing him.

ninjabot
May 18, 2009, 09:52 PM
To put it simply, no MS and no genjutsu = Get that genin-level Itachi out of here.

Everything you had up until this point was GOLD. I can't take this statement seriously though. I'd say that Sasuke and Itachi were borderline equals, save for the fact that Itachi is a half-step faster and has more experience. And he's a teensy bit smarter.

And yeah, experience means bull in Naruto, but still... Genin level? He manhandles Sannin and Jounin without the use of his MS, yet he's Genin level? And not just any Jounin and Sannin. The most noteworthy Jounin and Sannin in the entire series.

No, it's not as simple as taking away the MS. Itachi really is quite awesome.

Franckie
May 18, 2009, 10:08 PM
Really man, He was playing kakashi like a fiddle before he even whiped out MS. Not to mention his motives conflicted with really killing him.

You can't compare fodder like Kakashi to someone like Killer Bee. Itachi can win against someone like Oro because Oro's fighting-style is inherently weak to Itachi's, but anyone who has a natural-counter to it - Sasori, Deidara, Jiraiya, Kakuzu, Killer Bee, etc. - Itachi will find himself on the defensive. Without genjutsu and the MS, he is "genin-level" when compared to the real elite of this series.


Everything you had up until this point was GOLD. I can't take this statement seriously though. I'd say that Sasuke and Itachi were borderline equals, save for the fact that Itachi is a half-step faster and has more experience. And he's a teensy bit smarter.

And yeah, experience means bull in Naruto, but still... Genin level? He manhandles Sannin and Jounin without the use of his MS, yet he's Genin level? And not just any Jounin and Sannin. The most noteworthy Jounin and Sannin in the entire series.

No, it's not as simple as taking away the MS. Itachi really is quite awesome.

I'm not saying Itachi is pathetic without the MS, but considering the abilities he's been given in this series, he's unlikely to win against anyone who is above the calibre of people such as Kakashi without it. Keep in mind that the Sharingan is the sole reason Itachi is "stronger" than Oro, though you have to wonder how much that truly means when Oro's fighting-style is inherently weak to Itachi's and when at least half of Akatsuki stand a decent chance of beating Oro in a 1on1 fight. Furthermore, Sasuke vs Itachi showed that the only gap in ability between the two was a result of Sasuke lacking the MS.

jdw
May 18, 2009, 10:15 PM
You can't compare fodder like Kakashi to someone like Killer Bee. Itachi can win against someone like Oro because Oro's fighting-style is inherently weak to Itachi's, but anyone who has a natural-counter to it - Sasori, Deidara, Jiraiya, Kakuzu, Killer Bee, etc. - Itachi will find himself on the defensive. Without genjutsu and the MS, he is "genin-level" when compared to the real elite of this series.

Yes, the subtract powers from people and call them weak argument -_-;

Take away Sasori's puppets, deidara's bombs, Kakazu's extra hearts, Bee's Bijuu, and they will all be decidedly weaker, possibly genin-level.

Franckie
May 18, 2009, 10:28 PM
Yes, the subtract powers from people and call them weak argument -_-;

Take away Sasori's puppets, deidara's bombs, Kakazu's extra hearts, Bee's Bijuu, and they will all be decidedly weaker, possibly genin-level.

Well, think of the situation in another way: If Itachi were to meet someone who had a ready-made counter for almost every ability he possessed, would Itachi be reduced to mere "genin-level"? The answer is obviously yes.

Also, getting back to topic here, since someone such as Killer Bee has ready-made counters for several of Itachi's most useful abilities, what do you think the odds are of Itachi winning this fight without the MS? Not too good I'd say.

jdw
May 18, 2009, 10:39 PM
Well, think of the situation in another way: If Itachi were to meet someone who had a ready-made counter for almost every ability he possessed, would Itachi be reduced to mere "genin-level"? The answer is obviously yes.

Also, getting back to topic here, since someone such as Killer Bee has ready-made counters for several of Itachi's most useful abilities, what do you think the odds are of Itachi winning this fight without the MS? Not too good I'd say.

If someone had a ready made counter for almost every ability possessed by any ninja, everybody/most ninjas would be in trouble. :headscratch

What would Bee's chance be without his Bijuu?

How about we just beat Itachi within an inch of his life, drawing his last breath, leave him with his abilities, and see who would win then!

How about we just eliminate chakra from all the fights and see who would win.

Franckie
May 18, 2009, 10:57 PM
If someone had a ready made counter for almost every ability possessed by any ninja, everybody/most ninjas would be in trouble. :headscratch

What would Bee's chance be without his Bijuu?

How about we just beat Itachi within an inch of his life, drawing his last breath, leave him with his abilities, and see who would win then!

How about we just eliminate chakra from all the fights and see who would win.
You seem to have missed the point. In regards to Sasuke, excluding the Mangekyou Sharingan, Itachi has been shown to be inferior in both taijutsu and ninjutsu. He can attempt to genjutsu Sasuke into wonderland all he wants, but it'll be no avail. In other words, Itachi will lose to Sasuke in most fights without the MS. Now the only edge Itachi had against Sasuke is gone. Tsukuyomi is useless, Amaterasu would only help Sasuke since it'd add extra fuel to Kirin, and Susano-O lost its status as a "game-breaker" the moment Sasuke experienced the jutsu firsthand. He only needs to wait it out, and he can force Itachi to use it anytime with his trump card, Kirin.

Now, will Itachi last more than a second against Sasuke? Yes. But he's going to have a very hard time with Sasuke, and he'll lose to current Sasuke in most fights now. So, in a blunt way of speaking, he's "genin-level" when thrusted against Sasuke, or against any other ninja who has advantages similar to what Sasuke now has. (Consider it a hyperbole if you will.)

In regards to this thread, Itachi does not stand a chance against Killer Bee without the MS, and even then, he'll still have a hard time. Tsukuyomi is only helpful if Itachi can succeed at staring Killer Bee in the eye, but that'll be extremely difficult considering Killer Bee's erratic movements. You'd think Amaterasu would seal the deal, but considering how Sasuke had time to throw some shurikens, blow a few fireballs, etc., Killer Bee won't give Itachi the time he needs to charge his right-eye. Even if Itachi succeeds in unleashing the black flames, they don't reduce the target to ash instantly. Killer Bee will have time to launch a counterattack since he's a close-range fighter, and since Itachi will be feeling the MS's backlash, there's a high probability that the blow will be fatal. There's still Susano-O, but Itachi won't resort to that move unless he's feeling desperate. Furthermore, there is a chance that Killer Bee would avoid the Sword of Totsuka the same way he escaped Taka: Tentacle lulz!

IMO - I agree with Shaunlim's viewpoint. This match simply boils down on luck. Both are pretty much evenly matched overall with each having their own advantages. With their cards played right, both have the potential to win it. Having said that, this would be a close match-up in which the winner would probably be injured badly.

M3J
May 18, 2009, 11:19 PM
Well, think of the situation in another way: If Itachi were to meet someone who had a ready-made counter for almost every ability he possessed, would Itachi be reduced to mere "genin-level"? The answer is obviously yes.

Also, getting back to topic here, since someone such as Killer Bee has ready-made counters for several of Itachi's most useful abilities, what do you think the odds are of Itachi winning this fight without the MS? Not too good I'd say.
Itachi might be reduced to "genin-level", but he would be intelligent enough to compensate or last long enough. Plus, most ninjas would be rduced to "genin-level" if against someone with ready-made counters. Also, it's not fair to say "genin-level" is weak, since Naruto is still technically a genin but powerful enough to be at least a chuunin, as well as Sasuke and Neji in the first part.
Itachi became known as a genius and became the captain of ANBU BEFORE he got Mangekyou Sharingan. He lost to Sasuke because he wanted to. He used Mangekyou Sharingan against Kakashi and few others to end the match quickly without having to kill. Itachi is definitely way more intelligent than Sasuke and more skilled than he is, as shown in their fight. He'd stand a better chance against Killerbee. He's not as arrogant as Sasuke to assume Killerbee went out easily or to take him lightly.

Spike Spiegal
May 18, 2009, 11:37 PM
Ability to use the handseals in a jutsu is part of your ability to use a jutsu. Kakashi and Sasuke have shown they are so skilled with Chidori that they no longer require handseals.

Also, when Naruto made the KB's into rocks, again, that's his tactical use of them. I never doubted Naruto's skill with KB's, but Itachi has shown that his use of KB's are also very good
The point was me addressing your statement that Itachi's abilities with KB are greater than Naruto's, which is false, If you think fast handseals and a couple of exploding bunshin is more skillfull than everything Naruto has done, then you truly are stuck in the sharingan's genjutsu.

Sussano is a summoning technique, and Tsyukiyomi is a genjutsu. Only Ameratsu is a ninjutsu. I think he would need more than Ameratsu to have a 5 in the ninjutsu category. He's already shown to have good ninjutsu skills, and was hailed
I'm using manga proof, that's all we have seen that's all he's got, bottom line.

When Madara states his part in the Uchiha massacure, then we can know for sure. As of right now, it would seem Itachi killed the majority of them if not all of them.

It only seems that way to you, it's your assumption, it's stated by Itachi as well, and is a lot more likely than Madara just planning it out,or whatever you said.

Kakashi's resume doesn't compare to Itachi's. Itachi was able to defeat a Sannin with one genjutsu, the same Sannin who Kakashi shit his pants in front of.

I would also say Jiraiya is God-like.

Naruto defeated Pain while Pain was without Deva initially, while Naruto had prior knowledge of his powers, while Naruto had 2 sages, and 3 boss level summons with him, while Naruto had two Sage Mode KB's stashed away, and after he went 8 tails and was somehow fine. If you remeber, as soon as Deva activated himself, he had Naruto dead to rights. Also Pain wasn't trying to kill Naruto.

Itachi fought Sasuke with the intention of losing, he never wanted to kill his brother. He also had to deal with Orochimaru, and the business of seperating him from Sasuke. And if he wanted too, Itachi could of killed Sasuke numerous times, including with Sussano.

As for Killerbee curbing Sasuke, yes that happened, but as soon as Sasuke whipped out Ameratsu, Killerbee was done for.

I firmly believe that Jiraiya and Itachi are the strongest ninja that we have seen in the manga, and that, yes, they are God-like.
Kakashi's resume is equal or better than Itachi's
became jounin, and mastered rasengan and developed the Raikiri by the age of 13, he's copied over a 1000 jutsu, has done the impossible by acheiving MS without being an Uchiha. Is feared/known/respected around the shinobi world.Has fought with many Akatsuki members and killed one of the 7 swordsman of the mist.Has the most impressive MS jutsu that I've seen yet.

Bee killed/would have killed Sasuke and Taka numerous amounts of times and Sasuke had improved since the Itachi fight, add to the fact that Sasuke was able to match Itachi in everyway, yet was completely overwhelmed by Bee.

Jiriaya is an amazing fighter, I think the strongest single fighter in the manga to date,but, I wouldn't say he is God-like. I guess I hold those words at a different height than you do.

Itachi's regular genjutsu would still distract Killerbee though. Killerbee would still have to break out of it. So instead of hurting himself by using Tsyukiyomi to distract or paralyze Killerbee for a few seconds, he could use a regular genjutsu.
Understand that the exclusive abilty of the Tsuki is what caused the temporary paralysis, a reg. genjutsu that causes paralysis or anything for that matter, would be broken immediately with no after effects, only because of the compound mental stress was a temporary paralysis manageable.

A kunai to the head would kill him, he doesn't need to use a jutsu.
what about the pain,blood, and blurry vision that he would have to contend with while trying to aim for his head.

This is an assumption by you. Sussano is said to be a life draining technique, but like Shinra Tensei. No where does it say it kills you though, it merely drains your life. If Itachi were healthy, it's likely he would of survived using Sussano.
what do you think draining your life is? And Itachi will only be using it while he is at the brink of death anyway.

We don't know if Bee would ever touch Itachi seeing as how fast and intelligent Itachi is. It's likely that Itachi would pierce Bee, and The Sword of Tosouka does more than seal you, it actually cuts you. So even if the sealing didn't work, which is very unlikely I would think, Killerbee would still have a giant sword sticking through his chest, and it remains to be seen if he heas healing abilities like Naruto does.
Sasuke's speed is comparable to Itachi's and even Sasuke commented on how fast Killer Bee was so your statement is ridiculous, his intelligence has never been shown to overwhelm anybody either. Let's not get carried away here.

We have no idea if he can use the jutsu in any circumstance though. That's like me saying that Naruto can use that menacing ball jutsu he does when he goes Kyuubi while he's in Sage Mode. We both know he can't.
That statement isn't even remotely comparable, Killer Bee the Host used the replacement jutsu, Naruto's bijuu used the chakra blast.

Killerbee was able to replace himself with a tenticle, he has no tenticle's unless he is fully transformed.

If he gets hit with Ameratsu, again, he'd need to pull an Orochimaru and literally shed his skin to escape the flames, which he can't do.
Bee replaced himself with an object, it so happened that the severed tail was the most convenient and believable in tricking taka, just because it was a tail doesn't mean it can't be anything else, we havn't seen that constraint with any other replacement type jutsu.

As for Ameratsu being instantanious, look at the manga. Whenever they are summoned, they come out of no where as soon as either Itachi or Sasuke's eyes turn MS. I believe it's also stated in the databook that Ameratsu's flames appear wherever the user is looking.
nothing you said proves that the fllames appear on the victim instantaneously, all uses of Ama are not fully shown or shown after the jutsu has already been used, we don't know how much time has elapsed, conversely there are two peices of evidence that contradict your statement, Zetsu's words and Sasuke out running the flames.Show me proof.

That's the thing, Itachi has a jutsu so powerful that he can kill a Sannin in an instant. That was my point, he put Orochimaru down in a second, as if it was nothing. Mind you, Orochimaru survived a battle with the 4 tailed Kyuubi, he's extremely hard to kill, and Itachi killed him like he was a bug.
Yeah, but if Orochimaru let you use your most powerful technique on him without raising a finger, don't you think a lot of shinobi would be able to do the same?

Delbi
May 19, 2009, 02:49 AM
Kakashi's resume is equal or better than Itachi's
became jounin, and mastered rasengan and developed the Raikiri by the age of 13, he's copied over a 1000 jutsu, has done the impossible by acheiving MS without being an Uchiha. Is feared/known/respected around the shinobi world.Has fought with many Akatsuki members and killed one of the 7 swordsman of the mist.Has the most impressive MS jutsu that I've seen yet.

Itachi took part in the massacure of the entire Uchiha Clan in one night.
Itachi was an ANBU Captain at 13 years old.
Itachi can put you into a genjutsu just by pointing at you.
Itachi entered Konoha, reversed Kurenai, Konoha's Genjutsu specialist, own jutsu back on her.
Itachi K.O. Kakashi, Konoha's most decorated Jonin, with one jutsu.
Itachi paralyzed a Sannin with one genjutsu.
Itachi fooled and captured Deiadra with his sharigan genjutsu.
Kakashi claimed, that by himself, even after acquiring his MS, he was no match for Itachi.
Itachi, while extremely sick and going blind, defeated his brother and Orochimaru in combat, and then succumbed to his sickness and died before sealing the deal, even though he fought the entire fight without the intention of killing.
Itachi's mere prescence was enought to delay the Legendary Uchiha Madara for what ever reason, from attacking Konoha.




Bee killed/would have killed Sasuke and Taka numerous amounts of times and Sasuke had improved since the Itachi fight, add to the fact that Sasuke was able to match Itachi in everyway, yet was completely overwhelmed by Bee.

I know Killerbee had Sasuke dead twice. But as soon as Sasuke learned he could use Ameratsu, he had Killerbee nearly dead as well.

Also, Itachi wasn't even trying to kill Sasuke, and Itachi was practically on his death bed while fighting Sasuke as well, and had to deal with Orochimaru.



Jiriaya is an amazing fighter, I think the strongest single fighter in the manga to date,but, I wouldn't say he is God-like. I guess I hold those words at a different height than you do.


I consider, several Shinobi God-like. Minato, he sealed the single strongest entity in the Narutoverse inside his son, while giving half of it's power to the Death God. Found a way to travel through space and time.

Jiraiya. He fought the 4 tailed Kyuubi, won, survived, and managed to seal it back into Naruto without killing Naruto, he also had no Kekkai Genkai to help him do so. He also fought Pain, and Pain admitted that he would not have one if Jiraiya had known his secret. The same Pain who has the Rinnegan.

Itachi. He possesses a jutsu in Sussano that has so far been shown to make him invincible for a short while. He acquired too spiritual items somehow, and connected them to said jutsu. Can seal people into an "eterenal genjutsu" with his power. Can control the fire of hell in Ameratsu, which burn for a long ass time. Can cast a genjutsu that puts you under his control for up to 72hours, why really on a few seconds go by.

Sarturobi- Was called a "God amongest shinobi" and could eternaly seal three shinobi with the Death God technique at the same time.

Nagato- He posses the Rinnegan, and can use jutsu like we have never seen.

Ridouku- may have very well been a God.

Madara- Has managed to live far longer than anyone should. He controlled the Kyuubi, like his pet. Was said to have been "killed" yet survived. Found a way to make himself invulnerable, and can travel through space and time.

Hirashima- Stood atop the shinobi world, and managed to create the first shinobi nation. Was able to control ALL of the Biju, and had several under his command at one time.

Orochimaru- Proved to be extremely difficult to kill. Was able to create his own demension inside himself. Could ressurect the DEAD. Found a way to transfer his soul. Even in death, his body acts like a parasite and his trying to take over Kabuto.

As you can see, these ninja posses abilities that are unnatural and unbelievable, even in terms of the ninja world. They are not God's, but God-like. In some instances, they can even control Gods.





Understand that the exclusive abilty of the Tsuki is what caused the temporary paralysis, a reg. genjutsu that causes paralysis or anything for that matter, would be broken immediately with no after effects, only because of the compound mental stress was a temporary paralysis manageable.

Unfortunatly Itachi didn't use the MS. He used regular Sharigan Genjutsu, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-09/ The same genjutsu Sasuke uses here before he ever aquired his MS. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/345/page-10/



what do you think draining your life is? And Itachi will only be using it while he is at the brink of death anyway.

When Naruto goes Kyuubi, it drains his life. When Nagato used Shinra Tensei and Chibouku Tensei, it drained his life. Neither died from using those. Itachi was already sick, and there were other factors that led to his death, like the sickness that was killing him, which he needed medication to keep himself alive according to Madara.

Also, if Itachi was facing Killerbee and really needed it to win the fight, why would he hesitate to use and possibly die before he unleashed it.



Sasuke's speed is comparable to Itachi's and even Sasuke commented on how fast Killer Bee was so your statement is ridiculous, his intelligence has never been shown to overwhelm anybody either. Let's not get carried away here.

Itachi was sick during the fight, Zetsu even commented that he was unable to dodge attacks he normally could. Not to mention, Itachi wasn't fighting to kill Sasuke.

Overall, Itachi's speed has shown to be amazing. His foot speed and agility, handseal speed, speed in which he can summon his MS techniques, such as Sussano.




That statement isn't even remotely comparable, Killer Bee the Host used the replacement jutsu, Naruto's bijuu used the chakra blast.

How is it not comparable? They are too techniques we have only seen them use while transformed? Just using the facts as you said you are.



Bee replaced himself with an object, it so happened that the severed tail was the most convenient and believable in tricking taka, just because it was a tail doesn't mean it can't be anything else, we havn't seen that constraint with any other replacement type jutsu.

Bee replaced himself with something that was attached to him, because his actual body never got hit with the jutsu.

If normal Bee get's hit with Ameratsu, he can't replace himself with anything because his body was already hit.

He'd have to preform a replacement jutsu before got hit to evade the attack, and since it's so fast, and hard to predict, that would be very difficult.

This wasn't a normal replacement technique, the tail excreted chakra, normal replacements can't do that, they go poof after they are under some kind of stress immediatly, which is what the replacement was under.

If Killerbee could replace himself so easy, whiy not do it before in the fight? Instead, he got hit with attacks, or used his speed to dodge. Why not replace himself and set up for a counter attack? Reason is, that replacement technique only works while he's fully transformed. Until he does it normally, he can not do it.



nothing you said proves that the fllames appear on the victim instantaneously, all uses of Ama are not fully shown or shown after the jutsu has already been used, we don't know how much time has elapsed, conversely there are two peices of evidence that contradict your statement, Zetsu's words and Sasuke out running the flames.Show me proof.


The Flames appear literally the second after Killerbee notices Sasuke's Sharigan change again.

Sasuke out ran the flames for a second, because they were first summoned on his Katon so Itachi didn't eat it to his face. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/16-17/

When Sasuke uses Ameratsu on Killerbee, it appears right on top of him. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/02-03/

These flames aren't coming from anywhere, they are simply appearing. And if you notice, they appear, right after Itachi and Sauske open their eyes to reveal their MS.



Yeah, but if Orochimaru let you use your most powerful technique on him without raising a finger, don't you think a lot of shinobi would be able to do the same?

Fact is Orochimaru was using his most powerful technique. In his normal form, normal attacks don't affect him. He got ripped in half literally and was fine afterwards, he didn't even seem fazed. This goes to show how powerful Sussano is, it can kill Orochimaru in one shot, who's shown to be one durable and tough basterd.

This is really geting off topic, if you want to contiue to discuss some of this stuff that isn't related to the thread, just PM me.

M3J
May 19, 2009, 03:28 AM
Itachi has used Susano'o before, and he was still alive. Susano'o during his fight against Sasuke can't be the first time he's used it, otherwise the being wouldn't have a shield and a weapon, or at least a weapon, and since Orochimaru was looking for the sword, it wasn't originally a part of Susano'o technique.

Spike Spiegal
May 19, 2009, 07:13 AM
@ Delbi45 (Not quoting because posts are getting to lengthy)

1.Itachi's resume is impressive but, like I've stated, Kakashi's is equally impressive.

2.Let's not exaggerate, Itachi wasn't on his death bed, if you want a literal example look a Oro for a comparison. Itachi had medication to negate his sickness, and we have no clear proof that he was effected by sickness at all during the fight.

If Taka were not there to save his ass, Sasuke would have died closer to 5 times, if you want proof ask and I'll post it for you. Sasuke never touched Bee with his flames so, Bee was never close to death, this was an improved Sasuke with taka.

3. No use arguing this any further, difference in opinions, I think a couple of those people can be considered God-like, and to me, Itachi's not one of them.Also, none of the men on your list control gods, there either monsters or a jutsu named after a mythological god in Japanese folklore.

4.??? I was addressing Sasuke's use of Tsuki on Bee, and why reg. genjutsu would be useless?

5. Healthy Itachi wouldn't be healthy after he's exhausted himself and then used Susanoo, the longer the jutsu is activated the more life and chakra with be taken, It was stated by Itachi that he had only used Susanoo one other time, by evidence in the manga he uses it as a last possible defense and risks his life to do so. Nagato is near dead, and we don't know the amount of life that is taken in comparison to those individuals.

6. I can't believe people still argue this point, it was clearly referred to in the manga that the reason he couldn't dodge Sasuke's shuriken was because of his eyesight, again if you need proof I can show you. There's no proof his speed,stats, or anything for that matter was affected in his fight with Sasuke.
Only his handseal speed has been shown to be amazing, nothing else.

7. The instances aren't comparable because we know Bee used the jutsu, to replace himself, while the Bijuu alone is clearly shown in cases with Bee and Naruto to be able to use the chakra blast.

8. I don't understand your point, Bee used an object that was no longer apart of his bijuu?

He used a chakra tail as a replacement for the extraction.

And I never stated it was a normal replacement tech, there's probably many different versions, this was Bees, doesn't mean that he had to be in his full eight tails state to use it.

I'm not arguing if be gets hit in base mode, I'm talking about 1-8 tails.

You saw the fight,Bee was never in much danger until Ama, he never needed to use the tech in any other instances.

9. Sasuke focused on the 8 tails face when he used Ama,yet, when we see the flames it seems to be burning his tail.

This point is irrelevant for arguments sake anyway, because in 1-8 tails he'd still have a chakra shroud around him preventing contact.

Bottom line, the majority of Itachi's abilities(speed,Tai,etc.) are comparable to Sasuke's so the outcome concerning these categories against Bee would be comparable as well,meaning be will overwhelm and rape him. Bee has been shown already to have a counter for 2 of Itachi's 3 best attacks, and only has to avoid his 3rd one. Sasuke has a deeper arsenal, Itachi's is very limited, which will hurt him. most of Itachi's skill is negated because Bee's a master Jinchuuriki. Look at it this way,whatever the outcome may be, Bee would dominate 95% of the fight, to me Susanoo is the only good chance he has of winning, but Bee has numerous ways of beating Itachi. I'm just picking the person who has the better overall chance of winning.

Delbi
May 19, 2009, 06:00 PM
Bottom line, the majority of Itachi's abilities(speed,Tai,etc.) are comparable to Sasuke's so the outcome concerning these categories against Bee would be comparable as well,meaning be will overwhelm and rape him. Bee has been shown already to have a counter for 2 of Itachi's 3 best attacks, and only has to avoid his 3rd one. Sasuke has a deeper arsenal, Itachi's is very limited, which will hurt him. most of Itachi's skill is negated because Bee's a master Jinchuuriki. Look at it this way,whatever the outcome may be, Bee would dominate 95% of the fight, to me Susanoo is the only good chance he has of winning, but Bee has numerous ways of beating Itachi. I'm just picking the person who has the better overall chance of winning.

You are right, the post got lengthy, so I'm just going to respond to this.

Concerning Itachi.

1) When he fought Sasuke, he didn't want to kill Sasuke. When a shinobi wants to kill someone, not subdue them, their fighting ability is much greater because they are no longer worried about the other person's well being. Reguarding this, we have never seen Itachi go all out with the intention of oblliterating his opponents, I don't remeber one instance were he did.

2) Itachi was sick and practically blind. If I'm not mistaken, he's at 100% for this fight, which means he's not going to start losing his eyesight until he uses his MS, and he isn't sick at all.

3) Itachi's aresenl is quite impressive. He can use two elements, is unbelievably fast, has Three MS jutsu, is a genjutsu specialist, can use KB's etc. Killerbee has only shown that genjutsu is relatively useless against him, but it still affects him, even if not much. Also, Ameratsu still can hurt him very much, it's still very capable of killing him. When he shows he can get away from Ameratsu while not fully transformed, then he can, his chakra cloak gives him no way of avoiding that jutsu. If Ninja could replace themselves all the time as easy as you are saying he could to avoid Ameratsu, no ninja would ever get hit by a jutsu.

4) Killerbee's speed was great, but it was only equal to or slightly greater than Sasuke's. Sasuke was hit twice, because 1) He couldn't block Killerbee's sword attack, 2) He thought Killerbee was down by Tsyukuyomi when he in fact wasn't 3) Throughout the majority of the fight, even after nearly dying once, Sasuke was acting arrogant and overconfident, Itachi is never like this.

Also keep in mind, when Sasuke fought Killerbee, he was still injured, has recently lost the CS, and no longer has Orochimaru inside of him. His power, jutsu aresenal, speed, and chakra capacity was basically all cut in half. He had all of that, and years of prep time, and would of died fighting Itachi if Madara didn't help him afterwards.

Bee would not dominate 95% of the fight, that's a very biased opinion, Itachi is one of the greatest shinobi there is, no one would ever truly dominate him in a fight. I'd think it would be very evenly matched until Killerbee started using a lot of his Biju's power, and Itachi started using his MS. And once Itachi used Sussano, Killerbee wouldn't even be able to hurt Itachi, and would have to worry about not getting struck by an extremely fast sword, that has the ability to seal his soul away.

That was a lot longer than I intended it to be...

En Yang Ji
May 19, 2009, 07:00 PM
Bottom line, the majority of Itachi's abilities(speed,Tai,etc.) are comparable to Sasuke's so the outcome concerning these categories against Bee would be comparable as well,meaning be will overwhelm and rape him. Bee has been shown already to have a counter for 2 of Itachi's 3 best attacks, and only has to avoid his 3rd one. Sasuke has a deeper arsenal, Itachi's is very limited, which will hurt him. most of Itachi's skill is negated because Bee's a master Jinchuuriki. Look at it this way,whatever the outcome may be, Bee would dominate 95% of the fight, to me Susanoo is the only good chance he has of winning, but Bee has numerous ways of beating Itachi. I'm just picking the person who has the better overall chance of winning.

Even if Itachi's abilities are comparable to it doesn't mean the same thing would happen. Actually, the outcome could be drastically different considering:

1. Itachi wouldn't underestimate Killer Bee like Sasuke did.
2. Being able to counter a jutsu under normal circumstances, doesn't mean he automatically will be able to counter it all the time. Depending on how Itachi uses his jutsu they can still be effective against Hachibee.


Concerning genjutsu:


I wouldn't count out genjutsu. It's true the 8 tails can break killer bee out of a genjutsu, but he would have to know it's a genjutsu.

Itachi could make a genjutsu that would be hard for both of them to notice. Let's say all Itachi did was make a illusionary version of himself that made the same movements as himself, but only a bit faster. Killer Bee would only see the illusion and the illusionary Itachi would be in front of Itachi.

Killer Bee's timing would be off and he would be wide open. He would kill the illusion and a second later Itachi would cut off his head. Killer Bee wouldn't see the real Itachi and the 8 tails wouldn't have any reason to believe it's a genjutsu until it's too late, because both the Illusion and Itachi made similar movements.

or

Itachi could wait for Killer Bee to attack and make it look like he dodged left, through genjutsu, and dodge right. Then he could quickly throw a kunai at Killer bee's head.

- Susanoo could still hit, for the reasons DMS stated.

-It's true that Killer Bee can henge out of Amaterasu in 8 tails form but it's not like he's going to do at the start of the fight. Even if he does, he has to use a large amount of strength just to summon the 8-tails, just like Itachi does to use Amaterasu. It seems, Hachibee can only do it twice without completely exhausting himself.

Actually Hachibee henge wouldn't work on Itachi. The only reason it did on Sasuke is because he cut the tentacle Hachibee was in. Since Itachi wouldn't cut any tentacles Hachibee would just burn to death.

So in both forms Amaterasu would kill Hachibee.

jdw
May 19, 2009, 07:20 PM
Even if Itachi's abilities are comparable to it doesn't mean the same thing would happen. Actually, the outcome could be drastically different considering:

1. Itachi wouldn't underestimate Killer Bee like Sasuke did.
2. Being able to counter a jutsu under normal circumstances, doesn't mean he automatically will be able to counter it all the time. Depending on how Itachi uses his jutsu they can still be effective against Hachibee.


Concerning genjutsu:



-It's true that Killer Bee can henge out of Amaterasu in 8 tails form but it's not like he's going to do at the start of the fight. Even if he does, he has to use a large amount of strength just to summon the 8-tails, just like Itachi does to use Amaterasu. It seems, Hachibee can only do it twice without completely exhausting himself.

Actually Hachibee henge wouldn't work on Itachi. The only reason it did on Sasuke is because he cut the tentacle Hachibee was in. Since Itachi wouldn't cut any tentacles Hachibee would just burn to death.

So in both forms Amaterasu would kill Hachibee.

what is preventing Bee/Bijuu from sacrificing a tentacle/limb on its own? It isn't like getting his with amaterasu instantly and permanently paralyzes the victim.

firework
May 19, 2009, 07:42 PM
since bee has the 8 tails, itachi cant use tsukuyomi. he might use amaterasu though and i dont see how bee can counter that unless he cuts off itachis head fast. susanno would give him alot of trouble though, id give it to itachi but going 8 tails might help hachibi

En Yang Ji
May 19, 2009, 07:43 PM
what is preventing Bee/Bijuu from sacrificing a tentacle/limb on its own? It isn't like getting his with amaterasu instantly and permanently paralyzes the victim.

Hachibee would have to tear off his own limb very quickly. Even if he can and does do this in time, Itachi would probably notice. It would be suspicious, if Hachibee tried really hard to tear off his limb at the only part that isn't burning. Itachi would probably think "What good would that do when the rest of his body is burning?"

Now that I think about it, that probably wouldn't work anyway since Hachibee's arms would probably be on fire.

jdw
May 19, 2009, 08:03 PM
Hachibee would have to tear off his own limb very quickly. Even if he can and does do this in time, Itachi would probably notice. It would be suspicious, if Hachibee tried really hard to tear off his limb at the only part that isn't burning. Itachi would probably think "What good would that do when the rest of his body is burning?"

Now that I think about it, that probably wouldn't work anyway since Hachibee's arms would probably be on fire.

You are going out of your way to make a reasonable solution impossible by specifically placing a fire so it cant work once the option is raised.

*If he is in cloaked form, maybe he can use a sword, if he is in beast form he could bite off a tentacle and spit it out or something, or is the fire in his mouth now too? At any rate, solutions exist.

Grizz
May 19, 2009, 08:03 PM
Oooh come on, whoever started this thread must nt knw that Kishi is the Uchiha's biggest fan, he must have been devastated him with the fact that he had to kill of one of them... no wonder why we might not see Sasuke die afte all lo.....

Anyways between Kille n Itachi, i think Itachi would win, but this means that it will have to a full healthy Itachi nt the one who faced Sasuke.... Killer be still has his 8 tail beast.., it will be a really close fight i reckon, but Itachi to just be the winner...

En Yang Ji
May 19, 2009, 08:07 PM
You are going out of your way to make a reasonable solution impossible by specifically placing a fire so it cant work once the option is raised.

No I'm not. Itachi would probably hit Hachibee in the face, it wouldn't take long for it to spread to his arms.

jdw
May 19, 2009, 08:09 PM
No I'm not. Itachi would probably hit Hachibee in the face, it wouldn't take long for it to spread to his arms.

ok, keep on going.

Grizz
May 19, 2009, 08:22 PM
Well then again we havent seen Killer bee fight to his full potential either... he didnt all he did was toy around with sasuke... that was fun to see

Zerocartoo
August 12, 2009, 11:48 AM
Well then again we havent seen Killer bee fight to his full potential either... he didnt all he did was toy around with sasuke... that was fun to see


we havent seen Itachi fight to his full potential AND completly healthy either, he didnt all he did was toy around with sasuke, that was fun to see
:D

da_ni
August 12, 2009, 12:15 PM
it would be a tough match, but i voted for itachi...
but it wouldn't be easy..
1- becouse bee's natural afinity(thunder) has advantage over itach's water, so that's out of the question, itachis has a wonderfull arsenal of genjutsu, but hachibi can take bee aot of the genjutsu,, but then there's amaterasu, and susano'o, tah itachi can control very well, better than sasuke, plus, if i think itachi is stronger that kisame, and tobi sent kisame alone to get killer bee, why would i think bee would win aggainst an all round fighter like itachi??? the only thing bee has advantage is in his strength, but itachi wouldn't let the fight get fisicalyy, he would most definitly try to attack fro long range..
Itachi would rip his guts appart!!!!!!

Weapon_X
August 12, 2009, 03:47 PM
it would be a tough match, but i voted for itachi...
but it wouldn't be easy..
1- becouse bee's natural afinity(thunder) has advantage over itach's water, so that's out of the question, itachis has a wonderfull arsenal of genjutsu, but hachibi can take bee aot of the genjutsu,, but then there's amaterasu, and susano'o, tah itachi can control very well, better than sasuke, plus, if i think itachi is stronger that kisame, and tobi sent kisame alone to get killer bee, why would i think bee would win aggainst an all round fighter like itachi??? the only thing bee has advantage is in his strength, but itachi wouldn't let the fight get fisicalyy, he would most definitly try to attack fro long range..
Itachi would rip his guts appart!!!!!!

Amaterasu can be avoided, as seen by Killer Bee when he fooled Sasuke. I'm sure Bee would be able to that again during battle, and Bee is godly fast when he has the cloak around him. Even Sasuke's Sharingan couldn't keep up with Bee, the only problem is Susano'o. But as long as Bee keeps avoiding Susano'o, Itachi will sooner or later tire himself out. I don't see Itachi winning against Bee. Bee would steam roll him...

Chidori602
August 12, 2009, 08:12 PM
killer bee was pawned by sasukes amaterasu. now he has to fight itachi with susano, amaterasu, and tsukiyomi. itachi will win, most likely.

Zero Sama
August 13, 2009, 11:30 AM
don't forget that he find a way to scape amaterasu and he had no problem with tsukiyomi ... and about susano unlike sasuke hi is clever enough to know he doesn't stand a chance so he would runaway ...

Evec
August 13, 2009, 11:33 AM
I'll go with Itachi. Besides the sharingan, Itachi's pretty smart so he'll figure out a way to slow down Killer Bee and than unleash Susano or whatever

Weapon_X
August 13, 2009, 12:11 PM
killer bee was pawned by sasukes amaterasu. now he has to fight itachi with susano, amaterasu, and tsukiyomi. itachi will win, most likely.

Killer Bee was pawned by Sasuke's Amaterasu? Really?
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page012.html I fail to see that.

Bee can escape Tsukiyomi as long as he has his partner inside of him, like he did against Sasuke here. http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page009.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page014.html

shinsengumi
August 13, 2009, 01:01 PM
i voted for itachi and i believe he would win but just to give bee some credits i want to comment on his side.
we already know that tsukiyomi is out of hand,that leaves amaterasu and susano'o only;
bee could avoid amaterasu once but that was conditional(sasuke cutting his tentacle gave bee the opportunity to fool him) ,it doesnt proove that he can avoid it any time any how and dont forget that he used that opportunity to escape from battle,not that he had a chance to counter attack after avoiding it.i think itachi's best weapon against bee is amaterasu and not Susano'o ....because ->
how can you ever forget that bee has hachibi on his side. in my eyes Susano'o vs Hachibi is way more uncertain-unpredictable than itachi vs Killerbee itself.Susano'o is godly but Hachibi is never the less,plus Susano'o consumes itachi second by second but there's no side effect to hachibi as far as we know.
about the sword of totsuka,i wonder if it could work smoothly either.this is a little hard for me to explain but i think you'll see my point.remember the fight with Oro.Susano'o used sword of totsuka many times to slay hydra's head but it didnt cast the genjutsu until he stabbed Oro himself for good.
now; that Hydra jutsu was actually a transformation jutsu,not a summoning,so in a sense,it was actually Oro himself but slaying the snake form didnt work out,as if itachi had to reach to the core,oro's embodiment.Oro made a mistake and showed his real form out of arrogance and it was his downfall.
now lets go back to bee, notice that he didnt summon hachibi either.he merely transformed into it.So my guess is sword of totsuka slaying hachibi wont cast the genjutsu on bee/hachibi either,unless he shows his true self like oro did.Susano'o can cut hachibi's tentacles but cant cast the genjutsu on it. for me, Hachibi takes the edge over Susano'o.
back to the beginning--i say itachi's best card is amaterasu and the battle will end with a well placed one but still, bee is so strong and this isnt an easy battle for anyone.

BBB Banana
August 13, 2009, 04:52 PM
In my opinion Killer bee can win against all itachi tricks so people talk about susano. but susano isn't invencible probably the power of the second strongest bijuu could destroy it's so praised "shield" and the sword can't seal a bijuu since with gedo mazou it takes hours to seal a bijuu.

Weapon_X
August 13, 2009, 05:27 PM
i voted for itachi and i believe he would win but just to give bee some credits i want to comment on his side.
we already know that tsukiyomi is out of hand,that leaves amaterasu and susano'o only;
bee could avoid amaterasu once but that was conditional(sasuke cutting his tentacle gave bee the opportunity to fool him) ,it doesnt proove that he can avoid it any time any how and dont forget that he used that opportunity to escape from battle,not that he had a chance to counter attack after avoiding it.i think itachi's best weapon against bee is amaterasu and not Susano'o ....because ->
how can you ever forget that bee has hachibi on his side. in my eyes Susano'o vs Hachibi is way more uncertain-unpredictable than itachi vs Killerbee itself.Susano'o is godly but Hachibi is never the less,plus Susano'o consumes itachi second by second but there's no side effect to hachibi as far as we know.
about the sword of totsuka,i wonder if it could work smoothly either.this is a little hard for me to explain but i think you'll see my point.remember the fight with Oro.Susano'o used sword of totsuka many times to slay hydra's head but it didnt cast the genjutsu until he stabbed Oro himself for good.
now; that Hydra jutsu was actually a transformation jutsu,not a summoning,so in a sense,it was actually Oro himself but slaying the snake form didnt work out,as if itachi had to reach to the core,oro's embodiment.Oro made a mistake and showed his real form out of arrogance and it was his downfall.
now lets go back to bee, notice that he didnt summon hachibi either.he merely transformed into it.So my guess is sword of totsuka slaying hachibi wont cast the genjutsu on bee/hachibi either,unless he shows his true self like oro did.Susano'o can cut hachibi's tentacles but cant cast the genjutsu on it. for me, Hachibi takes the edge over Susano'o.
back to the beginning--i say itachi's best card is amaterasu and the battle will end with a well placed one but still, bee is so strong and this isnt an easy battle for anyone.

Actually, Bee can avoid Amaterasu like the way he did, fool Itachi and then strike at him. I'll prove it to you:

If Itachi cuts any of the tentacles, then Bee can easily hide himself in one of the tentacles he cut. Itachi doesn't know that, nor does he know that the Bee he has defeated is just a tentacle also. Bee would be hiding in a tentacle somewhere, while Itachi has a tentacle which is the fake Bee. The Sharingan fails to see if Bee is real or not...and since Bee can come out from the tentacle anytime, like this http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page013.html Bee can easily do a surprise attack on Itachi.

jodi
August 13, 2009, 05:48 PM
Actually, Bee can avoid Amaterasu like the way he did, fool Itachi and then strike at him. I'll prove it to you:

If Itachi cuts any of the tentacles, then Bee can easily hide himself in one of the tentacles he cut. Itachi doesn't know that, nor does he know that the Bee he has defeated is just a tentacle also. Bee would be hiding in a tentacle somewhere, while Itachi has a tentacle which is the fake Bee. The Sharingan fails to see if Bee is real or not...and since Bee can come out from the tentacle anytime, like this http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page013.html Bee can easily do a surprise attack on Itachi.


why would Itachi need to cut a tentacle?
Sasuke only did to save Karin.
if it was going towards him, he would avoid while focusing his sharingan at the enemy
and, sasuke was on brink of exhaustion, while Itachi wouldn't let the fight get to that stage

En Yang Ji
August 13, 2009, 05:57 PM
Itachi could use shunshin or Susanoo to avoid a tentacles.

Weapon_X
August 13, 2009, 07:18 PM
why would Itachi need to cut a tentacle?
Sasuke only did to save Karin.
if it was going towards him, he would avoid while focusing his sharingan at the enemy
and, sasuke was on brink of exhaustion, while Itachi wouldn't let the fight get to that stage

Erm, when Bee changes into his full 8 tailed form?
Nevertheless, Bee can sacrifice his tentacles for sneak/evasion attacks. It's a manga fact, Itachi would not see it coming. He isn't superman.

Hauradrims3
August 13, 2009, 07:20 PM
Killer Bee was pawned by Sasuke's Amaterasu? Really?
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-419/page012.html I fail to see that.

Bee can escape Tsukiyomi as long as he has his partner inside of him, like he did against Sasuke here. http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page009.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-413/page014.html

He can escape a genjutsu. There is no proof of that being tsukuyomi. On the other hand, kakashi did say that tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled since the effect is instantaneous. It can be overpowered, but not cancelled. (As far as the manga has shown)

Additionally, it would have been natural for bee to comment on sasuke using tsukuyomi and breaking it so easily...yet he simply said that illusions dont work on him as if it were just another normal genjutsu.

As for amaterasu, it was sasukes first time using it, itachi on the other hand knows its weaknesses and will adjust to them.

Weapon_X
August 13, 2009, 07:25 PM
Itachi could use shunshin or Susanoo to avoid a tentacles.

And how would avoiding the tentacles exactly help him win the battle? He has to attack and if he attacks Bee in 8 tails form, then obviously he will have to cut the tentacles. How would Itachi know if the tentacle that he cut is the real Bee and the one he is attacking is just a fake one? He wouldn't. Sharingan fails to see that. And when Bee comes out of that tentacle, he can do a easy sneak attack on Itachi.
[hr]

He can escape a genjutsu. There is no proof of that being tsukuyomi. On the other hand, kakashi did say that tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled since the effect is instantaneous. It can be overpowered, but not cancelled. (As far as the manga has shown)

Additionally, it would have been natural for bee to comment on sasuke using tsukuyomi and breaking it so easily...yet he simply said that illusions dont work on him as if it were just another normal genjutsu.

As for amaterasu, it was sasukes first time using it, itachi on the other hand knows its weaknesses and will adjust to them.

Actually, there is proof that it is Tsukiyomi. He had his MS eye activated before he used Tsukiyomi on Bee. Also how can you expect Bee to know what Tsukiyomi is when Tsukiyomi is Itachi's own Jutsu? And Tsukiyomi is just another illusion, it has been broken, it's nothing special.

So? Sasuke still Amaterasu'd 8 tailed Bee. Bee just did a sneak evasion through his tentacles and fooled Sasuke. Also the Sharingan cannot see if it's a real one or a fake one, otherwise when Madara was sealing Bee, he would have noticed but he didn't. I don't see what's so special about Itachi's.

Hauradrims3
August 13, 2009, 10:58 PM
And how would avoiding the tentacles exactly help him win the battle? He has to attack and if he attacks Bee in 8 tails form, then obviously he will have to cut the tentacles. How would Itachi know if the tentacle that he cut is the real Bee and the one he is attacking is just a fake one? He wouldn't. Sharingan fails to see that. And when Bee comes out of that tentacle, he can do a easy sneak attack on Itachi.
<hr noshade size="1">


Actually, there is proof that it is Tsukiyomi. He had his MS eye activated before he used Tsukiyomi on Bee. Also how can you expect Bee to know what Tsukiyomi is when Tsukiyomi is Itachi's own Jutsu? And Tsukiyomi is just another illusion, it has been broken, it's nothing special.

So? Sasuke still Amaterasu'd 8 tailed Bee. Bee just did a sneak evasion through his tentacles and fooled Sasuke. Also the Sharingan cannot see if it's a real one or a fake one, otherwise when Madara was sealing Bee, he would have noticed but he didn't. I don't see what's so special about Itachi's.

Having MS activated doesent mean anything, that genjutsu has paralysed bee while tsukuyomi does not. We have seen other similar genjutsu, actually very similar as to what itachi did to oro. Bee would have noticed that it was a high level genjutsu and would have made a comment for sure, yet he treated it as nothing but another illusion, highly unlikely. Tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled as stated by kakashi.

Here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/03/ Clearly sasuke uses his MS, but as Karin states it is an illusion, similarily, bee states that sasukes illusion does not wok on him. So no, its not tsukuyomi, its just a random illusion. Would he really just walk around spamming tsukuyomi at random shinobi? Dont think so.

Spare me the need to reply again as there is no proof of that being tsukuyomi as there is so much more evidence pointing to that not being tsukuyomi.

Itachi knows better, hes got more experience with amaterasu and you cant deny that. The least we can say is that he would use it more efficiently for sure.

Weapon_X
August 14, 2009, 04:58 AM
Having MS activated doesent mean anything, that genjutsu has paralysed bee while tsukuyomi does not. We have seen other similar genjutsu, actually very similar as to what itachi did to oro. Bee would have noticed that it was a high level genjutsu and would have made a comment for sure, yet he treated it as nothing but another illusion, highly unlikely. Tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled as stated by kakashi.

Here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/03/ Clearly sasuke uses his MS, but as Karin states it is an illusion, similarily, bee states that sasukes illusion does not wok on him. So no, its not tsukuyomi, its just a random illusion. Would he really just walk around spamming tsukuyomi at random shinobi? Dont think so.

Spare me the need to reply again as there is no proof of that being tsukuyomi as there is so much more evidence pointing to that not being tsukuyomi.

Itachi knows better, hes got more experience with amaterasu and you cant deny that. The least we can say is that he would use it more efficiently for sure.

This was Sasuke's first time at using Tsukiyomi, no one can expect him to have a full grasp of it. Tsukiyomi cannot be cancelled? Then what did Sasuke do against Itachi when he broke Tsukiyomi? No, as long as he has the Hachibi inside of him he can cancel any Genjutsu. Tsukiyomi is an illusion after all...if Bee gets captured in it doesn't mean the Hachibi gets captured in it.

I can ask the same thing. Why would Sasuke walk around spamming MS then?

Being childish are we? "Spare me the reply"

Itachi fell for Sasuke's Kawarimi, it would be the same when he would fall for Bee's Kawarimi. There is no difference. Bee's is even better because no one could know where he is...it's a surprise.

En Yang Ji
August 14, 2009, 09:37 AM
How do you know Sasuke's genjutsu was Tsukiyomi and that Itachi would cut Hachibi's tentacles?

Weapon_X
August 14, 2009, 12:14 PM
How do you know Sasuke's genjutsu was Tsukiyomi and that Itachi would cut Hachibi's tentacles?

I have already explained in the above posts about Sasuke's Tsukiyomi.

Also, if Bee transforms into 8 tails then what is Itachi going to do? Actually, when I re-read that fight, Bee can "sacrifice" the Biju's tails at his own will. Tell me, what can Itachi attack when Bee is in 8 tails form? Hmm...? Go on? Itachi can't confront the Biju head on, he has no choice but to deal damage to it by cutting its tentacles. There is nothing for Itachi to aim at. This is a Biju we are talking about. Susano'o could just cut the tentacles like the way Susano'o cut Orochimaru's 8 tailed Hydra thing...and if any of the tentacles are cut then Bee can hide himself there.

En Yang Ji
August 15, 2009, 09:54 AM
How do you know that isn't Sasuke's own MS genjutsu? Itachi could use Amaterasu. If Bee tried to hit him with the tentacles he could use shunshin.

Weapon_X
August 15, 2009, 10:10 AM
How do you know that isn't Sasuke's own MS genjutsu? Itachi could use Amaterasu. If Bee tried to hit him with the tentacles he could use shunshin.

First of all, he wouldn't SPAM his MS on a fodder Ninja to find out where Killer Bee resides.

Second of all, Bee can sacrifice the Hachibi's tails at his own will it seems. If Itachi captures Hachibi with Amaterasu then Bee can easily slip into one of his tentacles, as I said, he can sacrifice them at own will. So really, what Itachi is Amaterasu'ing is just a Kawarimi whilst Bee is hidden somewhere planning for a surprise attack.

En Yang Ji
August 15, 2009, 10:16 AM
If that wasn't a MS jutsu Sasuke would have no reason to have the MS on or to close his other eye.

How would Killer Bee sacrifice his own limbs?

Hauradrims3
August 20, 2009, 11:37 PM
This was Sasuke's first time at using Tsukiyomi, no one can expect him to have a full grasp of it. Tsukiyomi cannot be cancelled? Then what did Sasuke do against Itachi when he broke Tsukiyomi? No, as long as he has the Hachibi inside of him he can cancel any Genjutsu. Tsukiyomi is an illusion after all...if Bee gets captured in it doesn't mean the Hachibi gets captured in it.

I can ask the same thing. Why would Sasuke walk around spamming MS then?

Being childish are we? "Spare me the reply"

Itachi fell for Sasuke's Kawarimi, it would be the same when he would fall for Bee's Kawarimi. There is no difference. Bee's is even better because no one could know where he is...it's a surprise.

No that was not tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled. It can be overpowered by an uchiha, but not cancelled. Kakashi said so himself. this isent from me. The pain from tsukuyomi is not an illusion.

Activating MS and using MS jutsu is different. The point still is, that it is quite unlikely that he used tsukuyomi on that random ninja. And whatever he used on him, he used on bee too.

Spare me the reply because you cant prove its tsukuyomi. Theres no manga proof of it. While I have manga proof that it cannot be tsukuyomi because it cannot be canceled. Ill post link if u want. Therefore spare me the reply so we stop losing time on this.

Oh yea, he was going to amaterasu his brothers face without knowing that he had a counter for it. NOT.

Raizen
August 21, 2009, 05:49 PM
No that was not tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled. It can be overpowered by an uchiha, but not cancelled. Kakashi said so himself. this isent from me. The pain from tsukuyomi is not an illusion.

Activating MS and using MS jutsu is different. The point still is, that it is quite unlikely that he used tsukuyomi on that random ninja. And whatever he used on him, he used on bee too.

Spare me the reply because you cant prove its tsukuyomi. Theres no manga proof of it. While I have manga proof that it cannot be tsukuyomi because it cannot be canceled. Ill post link if u want. Therefore spare me the reply so we stop losing time on this.

Oh yea, he was going to amaterasu his brothers face without knowing that he had a counter for it. NOT.
Every jutsu can be countered. Please do not sit there and state your assumptions as facts b/c that is what they are, just assumptions.

During the kakashi vs itachi, itachi stated that tsukyomi can be broken by a uchiha with MS. Hence it CAN be broken. What killerbee did was one of the requirements needed to break genjutsu. He had another chakra source interrupt him, his bijuu. OS why is it so hard to believe that he broke tsukyomi? Tsukyomi is strong, but it can be broken. It is just harder to do so

As for if sasuke used tsukymoi or not, when itachi used tsukyomi, it was in a black and white panel, the same as sasuke. And it happened very fast. Now u are saying that it isn't. It isn't our job to prove it to you but it is your job to prove us wrong because manga facts point to it being tsukyomi.

I think killerbee can beat itachi. Itachi is good, but not as some believe. Killerbee has craazy stamina and he can already beat 2 of itachi's most powerful techniques, tsukyomi and amaretsu

En Yang Ji
August 21, 2009, 05:58 PM
All MS genjutsu could be black and white. Killer Bee stopped it from lasting longer than a couple seconds because he broke it.

shinsengumi
August 22, 2009, 09:05 AM
No that was not tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi cannot be cancelled. It can be overpowered by an uchiha, but not cancelled. Kakashi said so himself. this isent from me.

lets clear out the missunderstanding here..kakashi never said tsukiyomi is unbreakable or can not be cancelled at all. he said what he said as an answer to Chiyo's this statement (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/06/) ;
"even if one is caught in the genjutsu,there is one more to go behind the opponent.if they hit the real body,then the genjutsu is unravelled....even if that's impossible,they can help their partner by cancelling the genjutsu themselves"

then kakashi said (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/07/) ; "if you're struck by that eye jutsu,his genjutsu can affect you in an instant...there is no cancelling the effects to it"
he simply meant that "your teammates will never have the chance/time to come near you and cancel the genjutsu because it will all happen in an instant."

in killerbee's case,he already has the partner inside him,who will also notice the casted genjutsu in that instant, thus can cancel it. be it tsukiyomi or not, so far killerbee seems to be immune to genjutsu regardless of its level/power.

En Yang Ji
August 22, 2009, 01:13 PM
Killer Bee would still have to know he was in a genjutsu, and be able to break out of it in less than a second.

Even if he did get past Tsukiyomi he couldn't defend against Amaterasu.

Raizen
August 24, 2009, 04:27 PM
Killer Bee would still have to know he was in a genjutsu, and be able to break out of it in less than a second.

Even if he did get past Tsukiyomi he couldn't defend against Amaterasu.
In tsukyomi, the mind of the opponent is trapped for much longer than a second, in itachi's case it last 3 days. That is plenty of time for the ninja to find out they are caught by the genjutsu. The only thing that tsukyomi prevents is for teammates to help you out. But a ninja can still break themselves out.

As for amaretsu, he already did defend against it.He took the attack without even knowing about it head-on and survived. So yeah, he can counter it.

And about the statement that all MS genjutsu is black and white, refer to the genjutsus used when itachi vs kakashi and naruto. Both the gen used on kakashi and naruto was not black and white

Weapon_X
August 24, 2009, 05:04 PM
It's surprising that people are saying Bee has to worry about Amaterasu. -_-;
He can just do a Kawarimi right there and then! The Sharingan cannot know if the Kawarimi is a Kawarimi or if it's the real body.

Kakashi's Sharingan failed to see Deidara's Kawarimi.
Itachi failed to see Sasuke's Kawarimi.
Sasuke failed to see Bee's Kawarimi.

It's simple as that. It's not rocket science. ;)

benelori
August 24, 2009, 05:12 PM
Killerbee has many great moves,speed cooperation of his beast power, he can counter Tsukiyomi and amaterasu as well.But itachi has susanoo as well. So a sword which cast a sealing jutsu on the victim and seals him in an eternal genjutsu, and has a shield which resists every attack, how can someone defeat that?=> Itachi wins

shinsengumi
August 24, 2009, 07:17 PM
itachi has susanoo as well. So a sword which cast a sealing jutsu on the victim and seals him in an eternal genjutsu, and has a shield which resists every attack, how can someone defeat that?=> Itachi wins

killerbee has Hachibi -_-;

En Yang Ji
August 24, 2009, 07:19 PM
In tsukyomi, the mind of the opponent is trapped for much longer than a second, in itachi's case it last 3 days. That is plenty of time for the ninja to find out they are caught by the genjutsu. The only thing that tsukyomi prevents is for teammates to help you out. But a ninja can still break themselves out.

As for amaretsu, he already did defend against it.He took the attack without even knowing about it head-on and survived. So yeah, he can counter it.

And about the statement that all MS genjutsu is black and white, refer to the genjutsus used when itachi vs kakashi and naruto. Both the gen used on kakashi and naruto was not black and white

- Itachi could make the genjutsu hard to detect by making it realistic. Killer Bee would have to be able to disrupt his chakra in less than a second.

Even if Killer Bee can break it in less than a second, if he couldn't do it towards the beginning of Tsukiyomi, he would still recieve a large amount of damage. He we would have to be able to make his body react extremely fast to break out of it before 1 day passed.

- Itachi didn't use his MS vs Kakashi and Naruto.

- Killer Bee was able to avoid Amaterasu, because Sasuke cut his limb off. Itachi wouldn't be able to cut off Killer Bee's limb when he's in the 8-tails form.

Darth Executor
August 24, 2009, 07:38 PM
Itachi failed to see Sasuke's Kawarimi.


Itachi did not fail to see Sasuke's Kawarimi. If he had, he wouldn't have tried to burn half of sasuke since he was planning on dying by his hand.

Weapon_X
August 24, 2009, 07:57 PM
Itachi did not fail to see Sasuke's Kawarimi. If he had, he wouldn't have tried to burn half of sasuke since he was planning on dying by his hand.

He burnt half of him because he did need the eyes after all. If he burnt all of Sasuke that would mean his eyes would get burnt as well...now what would the point be in that? ;)

Eddy01741
August 24, 2009, 08:09 PM
- Itachi could make the genjutsu hard to detect by making it realistic. Killer Bee would have to be able to disrupt his chakra in less than a second.

Even if Killer Bee can break it in less than a second, if he couldn't do it towards the beginning of Tsukiyomi, he would still recieve a large amount of damage. He we would have to be able to make his body react extremely fast to break out of it before 1 day passed.

- Itachi didn't use his MS vs Kakashi and Naruto.

- Killer Bee was able to avoid Amaterasu, because Sasuke cut his limb off. Itachi wouldn't be able to cut off Killer Bee's limb when he's in the 8-tails form.
Hmm... disagreeable with the genjutsu canceling. You realize that 8 tails is it's own entity, it's own chakra, inside killerbee, right? I'm fairly sure he has a good idea of what's going on. For example: "Hmm, he is buckling over in pain, yet the enemy has not physically attacked, it's a genjutsu, I should cancel it".

As for canceling at the beginning, so what if Itachi could do substantial damage with Tsukuyomi, Sasuke seemed to do substantial damage with tsukuyomi, I mean, he impaled Killerbee with spikes everywhere IIRC. Yet Killerbee was alive and kicking after Hachibi intervened.

Also, to go with the "he wouldn't notice", hmm, opposite colors doesn't give away Tsukuyomi at all? Oh wait, yes it does, not to mention you see the moon instead of the sun.


_____________________________________

Anyhow, for the actual fight, it's definitely going to be closer than Sasuke v KIllerbee, seeing as Itachi's not stupidly arrogant (oh yes, I can take my lightning charged sword and go up against 7 swords coming at me spinning rediculously fast). So far though, Itachi hasn't shown any attacks that would be useful against KB, Tsukuyomi fails, therefore most any genjutsu will fail. THen it comes down to Susanoo and Amaterasu. Amaterasu will definitely put KB in a pinch, quick to be cast (burns wherever Itachi looks), and impossible to put out. KB can do his kawarimi tentacle escape, but after using it once, I don't think Itachi will fall for it again. Then Susanoo, with a rediculously strong shield, and an incorporeal sword that seals the enemy in genjutsu if stabbed, who knows if that can hurt KB in 8 tails.


I think the fight is too hard to call. It all depends on how much stuff Itachi throws out before he realizes that his vast arsenal of genjutsu is useless. If he already used a bunch of genjutsu and TSukuyomi, then he may be too tired out to win the fight against KB. Meanwhile, all that time that Itachi is figuring out that his genjutsu is useless, KB has the chance to attack.

jodi
August 24, 2009, 08:14 PM
I know Sasuke almost died to Killerbee, but he too wasn't even using sharingan because of the wounds on Itachi fight. So, its not even, but its not huge too.
Itachi on rampage mode?

Sorry, I don't see Killerbee being able to survive that.

Itachi is... god.

benelori
August 25, 2009, 04:45 AM
killerbee has Hachibi -_-;

I'd like to know what would hachibi do against the sword of totsuka?

Sachsenhesse
August 25, 2009, 05:30 AM
killerbee pwns him with his stylish ryhmes and sworddances

also is itachi in first line a genjutsuuser and genjutsus doenst work on killerbee :) he could get away even out the eternal genjutsu

Shaunlim
August 25, 2009, 05:49 AM
I know Sasuke almost died to Killerbee, but he too wasn't even using sharingan because of the wounds on Itachi fight. So, its not even, but its not huge too.
Itachi on rampage mode?

Sorry, I don't see Killerbee being able to survive that.

Itachi is... god.

I'm pretty sure he used his SHG against KB....

shinsengumi
August 25, 2009, 09:29 AM
I'd like to know what would hachibi do against the sword of totsuka?

i would like to know what would sword of totkusa do against hachici....i wrote something about this before-->



Susano'o is godly but Hachibi is never the less,plus Susano'o consumes itachi second by second but there's no side effect to hachibi as far as we know.
about the sword of totsuka,i wonder if it could work smoothly either.remember the fight with Oro...Susano'o used sword of totsuka many times to slay hydra's heads but it didnt cast the genjutsu until he stabbed Oro himself for good.
now; that Hydra jutsu was actually a transformation jutsu,not a summoning,so in a sense,it was actually Oro himself but slaying the snake form didnt work out,as if itachi had to reach to the core,oro's embodiment.Oro made a mistake and showed his real form out of arrogance and it was his downfall.
now lets go back to bee, notice that he didnt summon hachibi either.he merely transformed into it.So my guess is sword of totsuka slaying hachibi wont cast the genjutsu on bee/hachibi either,unless he shows his true self like oro did.Susano'o can cut hachibi's tentacles but cant cast the genjutsu on it.

and here is another good one -->


susano isn't invencible probably the power of the second strongest bijuu could destroy it's so praised "shield" and the sword can't seal a bijuu since with gedo mazou it takes hours to seal a bijuu.

En Yang Ji
August 25, 2009, 09:57 AM
Hmm... disagreeable with the genjutsu canceling. You realize that 8 tails is it's own entity, it's own chakra, inside killerbee, right? I'm fairly sure he has a good idea of what's going on. For example: "Hmm, he is buckling over in pain, yet the enemy has not physically attacked, it's a genjutsu, I should cancel it".

As for canceling at the beginning, so what if Itachi could do substantial damage with Tsukuyomi, Sasuke seemed to do substantial damage with tsukuyomi, I mean, he impaled Killerbee with spikes everywhere IIRC. Yet Killerbee was alive and kicking after Hachibi intervened.

Also, to go with the "he wouldn't notice", hmm, opposite colors doesn't give away Tsukuyomi at all? Oh wait, yes it does, not to mention you see the moon instead of the sun.


_____________________________________

Anyhow, for the actual fight, it's definitely going to be closer than Sasuke v KIllerbee, seeing as Itachi's not stupidly arrogant (oh yes, I can take my lightning charged sword and go up against 7 swords coming at me spinning rediculously fast). So far though, Itachi hasn't shown any attacks that would be useful against KB, Tsukuyomi fails, therefore most any genjutsu will fail. THen it comes down to Susanoo and Amaterasu. Amaterasu will definitely put KB in a pinch, quick to be cast (burns wherever Itachi looks), and impossible to put out. KB can do his kawarimi tentacle escape, but after using it once, I don't think Itachi will fall for it again. Then Susanoo, with a rediculously strong shield, and an incorporeal sword that seals the enemy in genjutsu if stabbed, who knows if that can hurt KB in 8 tails.


I think the fight is too hard to call. It all depends on how much stuff Itachi throws out before he realizes that his vast arsenal of genjutsu is useless. If he already used a bunch of genjutsu and TSukuyomi, then he may be too tired out to win the fight against KB. Meanwhile, all that time that Itachi is figuring out that his genjutsu is useless, KB has the chance to attack.

- The 8-tails wouldn't realize, Killer Bee is in a genjutsu because, Killer Bee would only show signs that he is in pain after Tsukiyomi is over since it only last 1 second. Itachi could do a lot more damage than Sasuke. He could have him being stabbed by 20 people all at the same time and have him being burned by a illusionary Amaterasu for the whole duration he is in Tsukiyomi.

Itachi doesn't have to make Tsukiyomi black and white. When he used it against Sasuke it was in normal colors.

- The 8 tails- probably couldn't destroy the shield of Totsuka if Suigetsu could defend Taka against it.

Destined_One
August 25, 2009, 10:07 AM
- The 8-tails wouldn't realize, Killer Bee is in a genjutsu because, Killer Bee would only show signs that he is in pain after Tsukiyomi is over since it only last 1 second. Itachi could do a lot more damage than Sasuke. He could have him being stabbed by 20 people all at the same time and have him being burned by a illusionary Amaterasu for the whole duration he is in Tsukiyomi.

Itachi doesn't have to make Tsukiyomi black and white. When he used it against Sasuke it was in normal colors.

- The 8 tails- probably couldn't destroy the shield of Totsuka if Suigetsu could defend Taka against it.

Although this is possible, im sure the bijuu would notice the disturbance in Kirabi's chakra, therefore dispelling it regardless. Like how the kyuubi rejected Pa from integrating with Naruto, or how it overwhelmed Pain's attempt to use his chakra to control naruto. Id expect the Hachibi who is friends with Bi to realize when foreign Chakra has been inserted into Kirabi, which is basically what Genjutsu is.

shinsengumi
August 25, 2009, 10:13 AM
- The 8-tails wouldn't realize, Killer Bee is in a genjutsu because, Killer Bee would only show signs that he is in pain after Tsukiyomi is over since it only last 1 second. Itachi could do a lot more damage than Sasuke. He could have him being stabbed by 20 people all at the same time and have him being burned by a illusionary Amaterasu for the whole duration he is in Tsukiyomi.

tsukiyomi lasts 1 second only to the outside..inside of the genjutsu it can last for days and hachibi will realise bee's suffering in that time.the difference between having your partner next to you and having him inside you is the essence here.hachibi's connected to killerbee's mind and will obviously see the sings of a genjutsu instantly.
and by the way,according to your idea,sasuke would also trick killerbee with a concealed genjutsu ,no?then why didnt he?.... because he didnt know bee was able to do such things right? then why do you assume itachi would know it from the beginning and cast the genjutsu in that fashion?


- The 8 tails- probably couldn't destroy the shield of Totsuka if Suigetsu could defend Taka against it.
suigetsu defended with a whole lake as a shield and it was only for 1 shot...not even to say if it was hachibi's strongest attack anyway..

En Yang Ji
August 25, 2009, 10:15 AM
Even if the 8-tails notice, he probably wouldn't break out it, before 1 second past. He would have to react extremely fast and break out it almost same instant he discovers it.

The 8-tails may be connected to killer bee, but he isn't in the genjutsu so Killer Bee pain would only seem to last 1 second (I think).

Edit: If the 8 tails can break out of Tsukiyomi, there is nothing he can do against Amaterasu. The Kawarimi wouldn't work because Itachi wouldn't cut of one of his tentacles. If the 8 tails somehow detached one of his tentacles, Itachi probably would realize why.

Nath Uchiha
August 25, 2009, 11:42 AM
Itachi wins this, although he has to use Susano. I don't see why everyone here is complaining about the time it takes, Itachi had Susano out for quiet a bit vs Sasuke considering he basically had to where he was.




Quote: shinsengumi
Susano'o is godly but Hachibi is never the less,plus Susano'o consumes itachi second by second but there's no side effect to hachibi as far as we know.
about the sword of totsuka,i wonder if it could work smoothly either.remember the fight with Oro...Susano'o used sword of totsuka many times to slay hydra's heads but it didnt cast the genjutsu until he stabbed Oro himself for good.
now; that Hydra jutsu was actually a transformation jutsu,not a summoning,so in a sense,it was actually Oro himself but slaying the snake form didnt work out,as if itachi had to reach to the core,oro's embodiment.Oro made a mistake and showed his real form out of arrogance and it was his downfall.
now lets go back to bee, notice that he didnt summon hachibi either.he merely transformed into it.So my guess is sword of totsuka slaying hachibi wont cast the genjutsu on bee/hachibi either,unless he shows his true self like oro did.Susano'o can cut hachibi's tentacles but cant cast the genjutsu on it.

Simple, it said you have to be STABBED with it. As you said, all Itachi did was slash/cut of the heads.

As for the shield vs the Bijuu blast, if Orochimaru's jutsu (forgot the name, the triple something) can stop a Kyubi blast then Susano's shield can stop Hachibis. Then there is the fact that the sheild relfects the jutsu back at Hachibi which would be hard to dodge

shinsengumi
August 25, 2009, 12:05 PM
well you can be right on that,it was also my confusion if it was about stabbing instead of slashing...but there comes a new arguement. will sword of totsuka be able to stab through hachibi's chakra-skin ?we saw sword of kusanagi couldnt pierce through chakra-cloaked naruto(not even kyubi) and it was said to be able to cut through anything..
and Ororchimaru's jutsu didnt stop a kyubi blast, it stopped a 4-tailed naruto blast.is it really necessery to tell the difference between the two?(well 5 more tails to go ;) )

Eddy01741
August 25, 2009, 01:53 PM
Itachi is... god.

You are.... an Uchiha fanboy.

Oh look, now we're all making biased observations.


Even if the 8-tails notice, he probably wouldn't break out it, before 1 second past. He would have to react extremely fast and break out it almost same instant he discovers it.

The 8-tails may be connected to killer bee, but he isn't in the genjutsu so Killer Bee pain would only seem to last 1 second (I think).

Edit: If the 8 tails can break out of Tsukiyomi, there is nothing he can do against Amaterasu. The Kawarimi wouldn't work because Itachi wouldn't cut of one of his tentacles. If the 8 tails somehow detached one of his tentacles, Itachi probably would realize why.

No, this is the point I was trying to make with 8 tails and Killerbee. 8 tails resides within Killerbee, just like Kyuubi resides inside Naruto. If you remember, Kyuubi more or less could see anything Naruto could (as he comments on how Naruto is weak without his power, etc. etc.). I'm fairly sure that 8 tails would notice Tsukuyomi quickly, and cancel it. After all, he did it against Sasuke.

As for your edit, if Killerbee cuts off a tentacle on his own and uses it as a pseudo-kawarimi, who cares if Itachi notices, Killerbee still escaped, and made Itachi use one of his most chakra draining moves. It doesn't matter if Killerbee escapes unnoticed or if he escapes noticed. Fleeing isn't a win in the Konohagakure Arena, Killerbee escaping from the tentacles would be a rediculous chakra waster for Itachi. Just like how Sasuke's oral rebirth kawarimi was meant to leave Itachi with almost no chakra so Sasuke could use Kirin on Itachi.

Killerbee has a reasonable counter to Amaterasu, even if it only works once (let's say, Itachi gets smart and next time he makes sure he spreads the black flame to the tentacles first), it still wastes like what, over 20% of Itachi's chakra (I'm assuming 20% since in his fight vs. Sasuke, he used 4 MS jutsu, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu (vs. fireball), Amaterasu (vs. Sasuke), and Susanoo, and he used various other weaker jutsu).

However, the deal with Susanoo is the reason why I personally can't call the fight. Susanoo seems to have a inpenetrable shield, but what if Killerbee attacks from behind, or below? What happens then? We have no idea. And the sword ot Totsuka, would it be strong enough to hurt killerbee in 8 tails?

Basically, I see Susanoo as Itachi's best chance vs. Killerbee. And we don't know enough about it to say whether it will defeat Killerbee or not.

DARK
August 25, 2009, 01:55 PM
Itachi since he can easily use Amaterasu where Sasuke had some trouble with it.
He also has better taijutsu and ninjutsu than Sasuke.
If Sasuke was barely able to be KB, then Itachi (and Kisame if needed) should defeat KB.

En Yang Ji
August 25, 2009, 02:02 PM
If Itachi notices the tentacle being separated, he would probably conclude Killer Bee is in it and use Amaterasu on it.

Raizen
August 25, 2009, 08:53 PM
- Itachi could make the genjutsu hard to detect by making it realistic. Killer Bee would have to be able to disrupt his chakra in less than a second.

Even if Killer Bee can break it in less than a second, if he couldn't do it towards the beginning of Tsukiyomi, he would still recieve a large amount of damage. He we would have to be able to make his body react extremely fast to break out of it before 1 day passed.

- Itachi didn't use his MS vs Kakashi and Naruto.

- Killer Bee was able to avoid Amaterasu, because Sasuke cut his limb off. Itachi wouldn't be able to cut off Killer Bee's limb when he's in the 8-tails form.
1- Genjutsu works by disrupting the chakra of the opponent, as a bijuu the moment the host's chakra is disrupted the 8-tails would know. Furthermore most ninjas know that they are caught in a gen b/c not only do the conditions change, so does the the actual battle itself.

Also, you don't seem to understand that the genjutsu last for a second ONLY IN REAL TIME. The genjutsu takes place inside the user's mind and last for a long time, ie 3 days. Giving the opponent many chances to cancel it. The only thing is that it is impossible for a teammate to cancel tsukyomi b/c it would take longer then a second to help them.

2- Fine, but you still can't state something like all MS genjutsu is black and white b/c for one, the genjutsu used here is not black and white. So only tsukyomi is black and white
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/17/

3- Hachibi could have escaped that regardless. It is not as if he escaped only conditionally. Did u think ahchibi knew that sasuke was about to cut a limb of his? No
[hr]

If Itachi notices the tentacle being separated, he would probably conclude Killer Bee is in it and use Amaterasu on it.
How would he know that? A kawmiri can be used on any object. That is a baseless assumption. SO he is going to waste massive amounts of chakra on an 1 of hundreds of objects taht may or may not be the kawamiri?

Weapon_X
August 26, 2009, 08:23 AM
How would he know that? A kawmiri can be used on any object. That is a baseless assumption. SO he is going to waste massive amounts of chakra on an 1 of hundreds of objects taht may or may not be the kawamiri?

Exactly. I totally agree with you. I have explained it millions of times that the Sharingan simply FAILS to see a Kawarimi. It just does not see if it can be real or not...there are so many examples as to how it has failed.

Kakashi failed to see Deidara's Kawarimi
Itachi failed to see Sasuke's Kawarimi
And Sasuke AND Madara, MADARA failed to see Bee's Kawarimi :lmao

It's got so much evidence that the Sharingan can simple not see a Kawarimi until it goes "puff" or dissapears. Thank you :lmao

◆ T.D.A ◆
August 26, 2009, 08:32 AM
Itachi would need to use Susano I think, but if he did, wouldn't he die also?

scoobysvk
August 26, 2009, 09:14 AM
Itachy is dead!
Bee is alive!

who is the man :-D

Weapon_X
August 26, 2009, 09:52 AM
Itachy is dead!
Bee is alive!

who is the man :-D

WHAT? OMG! NO WAY! ITACHI IS DEAD? WTF? WHO KILLED HIM? BRITNEY SPEARS? Bitch please...Itachi was such a womanizer :eyeroll

Shit, I didn't know that. So I made a thread about a ghost fighting a real body...shit :eyeroll

jdw
August 26, 2009, 10:13 AM
Itachi would need to use Susano I think, but if he did, wouldn't he die also?

I don't think so. The databook says:


Only those who have carried mastery of Mangekyou Sharingan - the doujutsu feared by those around it as the strongest - to its extremes will come onto the god's territory. A guardian deity to its caster, it eats away their life at the same time. LINK (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1175216#post1175216)

That to me says it is something that reduces the overall life force of the user, but does not result in instant death. Thus, I think if he overused it, it would result in death, but not that death is a requirement itself for use. As if Itachi starts with max 9999 HP (life force) and using Susanoo reduces his HP over time while being used and with each use. So, after using Susanoo, his max HP is now 9000, etc. I am sure there are other interpretations :)

scoobysvk
August 26, 2009, 10:23 AM
no one is perfect :-)

En Yang Ji
August 26, 2009, 02:05 PM
1- Genjutsu works by disrupting the chakra of the opponent, as a bijuu the moment the host's chakra is disrupted the 8-tails would know. Furthermore most ninjas know that they are caught in a gen b/c not only do the conditions change, so does the the actual battle itself.

Also, you don't seem to understand that the genjutsu last for a second ONLY IN REAL TIME. The genjutsu takes place inside the user's mind and last for a long time, ie 3 days. Giving the opponent many chances to cancel it. The only thing is that it is impossible for a teammate to cancel tsukyomi b/c it would take longer then a second to help them.

2- Fine, but you still can't state something like all MS genjutsu is black and white b/c for one, the genjutsu used here is not black and white. So only tsukyomi is black and white
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/17/

3- Hachibi could have escaped that regardless. It is not as if he escaped only conditionally. Did u think ahchibi knew that sasuke was about to cut a limb of his? No
<hr noshade size="1">

How would he know that? A kawmiri can be used on any object. That is a baseless assumption. SO he is going to waste massive amounts of chakra on an 1 of hundreds of objects taht may or may not be the kawamiri?

1. I do understand, but even if Killer Bee does have a lot time in the Tsukiyomi world, he we still have to make his body summon up enough chakra to break Tsukiyomi in real time. His body would react at the same speed it always does and he would have to make it break out of the genjutsu in less than 1 second.

2. How does that mean only Tsukiyomi is black and white?

3. That was a spur of the moment plan. Hachibi did think Sasuke would cut that tentacle. That's why he sent the tentacle with him in it at them.

4. Killer Bee couldn't use another kawarimi while he's in 8 tails form, because he's too big. Itachi would probably assume he used a kawarimi, because it would be odd for Killer Bee to tear off his own limb while burning. Why would Killer Bee try so hard to tear off his own limb if he is going to die anyway?

- As soon Madara said Killer Bee got away, Sasuke thought Killer Bee shouldn't of been able to to use a kawarimi because he saw everything with his sharingan. Than he immediately thought of when he cut the tentacle: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/453/06/

SilentBob777
August 26, 2009, 05:15 PM
I think Itachi would win this fight, simply because Killerbee has no way around Amaterasu (he won't trick Itachi like he did Sasuke), and I won't even start with the Susano, if it comes to that he's finished for sure. Now some of you think Itachi would only win with those two techniques, but given how smart he is he could possibly trick bee some other way..for instance wouldn't it be funny if this happened
Itachi makes a clone..very fast
bee goes "lol, I'll just cut trough them" and tries some crappy rapping
he charges at the clone, goes close enough and
BOOM
oh, no, that was an explosive clone, and he just lost a few limbs, head or half of his body, and even if he's still alive after that, he'd be badly hurt and Itachi would Amaterasu his head off..
In any case, Itachi wins. :)

Mangakotlar
August 26, 2009, 05:48 PM
Plothole no jutsu: How did Sasuke manage to cut Haachibi's tentacles?

Exhibit 1: Naruto in 4tails mode had such a dense chakra skin that the sword of kusanagi could not penetrate it.

Exhibit 2: The body of the Haachibi is basically materialized super-dense chakra. The lightning manipulation is also chakra. One would imagine that the mythical chakra beasts body was made of far stronger/denser chakra than some 16 year old kids lightning manipulation.

jdw
August 26, 2009, 06:12 PM
Plothole no jutsu: How did Sasuke manage to cut Haachibi's tentacles?

Exhibit 1: Naruto in 4tails mode had such a dense chakra skin that the sword of kusanagi could not penetrate it.

Exhibit 2: The body of the Haachibi is basically materialized super-dense chakra. The lightning manipulation is also chakra. One would imagine that the mythical chakra beasts body was made of far stronger/denser chakra than some 16 year old kids lightning manipulation.

Hachibi =/= Kyuubi. "Plothole" closed.

Raizen
August 26, 2009, 07:22 PM
1. I do understand, but even if Killer Bee does have a lot time in the Tsukiyomi world, he we still have to make his body summon up enough chakra to break Tsukiyomi in real time. His body would react at the same speed it always does and he would have to make it break out of the genjutsu in less than 1 second.

2. How does that mean only Tsukiyomi is black and white?

3. That was a spur of the moment plan. Hachibi did think Sasuke would cut that tentacle. That's why he sent the tentacle with him in it at them.

4. Killer Bee couldn't use another kawarimi while he's in 8 tails form, because he's too big. Itachi would probably assume he used a kawarimi, because it would be odd for Killer Bee to tear off his own limb while burning. Why would Killer Bee try so hard to tear off his own limb if he is going to die anyway?

- As soon Madara said Killer Bee got away, Sasuke thought Killer Bee shouldn't of been able to to use a kawarimi because he saw everything with his sharingan. Than he immediately thought of when he cut the tentacle: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/453/06/
1- Think of it this way, Your body fires billions of nerve impulses in a second. And your body has nothing to do with that. That is how chakra works, or more specifically that is how the chakra of the 8-tails would work. It has nothing to do with real time.

2- You stated that every MS gen is black and white. i showed you the battle between sasuke and Itachi and their genjutsu battle which was not black and white

3-Killerbee planned the escape, no denying it. Even after being hit with it head on he found a way out. SO obviously he can counter amaretsu if needed

Bea Rabbit
August 27, 2009, 03:20 AM
Itachi would win!
Becoz he have Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu also Susanoo
those incredible jutsu must being Raikage defeated!

Red Haired Shanks
May 07, 2010, 05:21 PM
All right!!! This is by far the best discussion I've seen in a long time, people are really thinking!! So here are my thoughts:
Bee surpasses Itachi in strength, no problem. Itachi is faster, yes, but can he really hurt Bee?? The guy took a point blank Chidori+Water and a chakra punch from Juugo, a kick to the chest from Sasuke and it didn't affect him in the least. Bee takes hand to hand combat. Add a Bijuu, and Itachi's gone tortilla!!!!!
2) Taijutsu: Bee's swordwork is REALLY good...but I'm not biased, as we all know Itachi's eyes are far more powerful than Sasuke's, so he MIGHT be able to follow Bee. But Bee takes this one too, due to sheer PWNage, his swordwork is great, and Itachi might not be able to follow it.
3)Ninjutsu: Itachi. No doubt. Bee has no great techs to speak of, and I don't think he's able to extend his electric emissions like Sasuke's Chidori sword.
NOW ON TO COMPLEX MATTERS:
The Mangekyo has been discussed here a lot, so:
1) Tsukuyomi: Nope, Bee breaks out, and since tsukuyomi isn't working, no lesser genjutsu will. Now many guys are saying that Itachi can throw up a clever genjutsu that our Rapper can't detect because he isn't very intelligent, and that's bullshit. Genjutsu is detected by the Bijuu, and the 8 tails can detect bee's chakra being disrupted. So, Tsukuyomi is of no use.
2)Amaterasu: Interesting. Many are forgetting that Itachi CANNOT manipulate the shape, nor can he sustain it for long like Sasuke (He's much better at genjutsu.) He fires it like an AK-47, short bursts. Now IF Bee goes Bijuu, he's burnt out. BUT he has an endurance, and we all know Bee sustained Sasuke's Amaterasu, and Itachi isn't as skilled as Sasuke in amaterasu. SO: If Bee is in Bijuu form, he has a chance of getting hit, but not much. Bee takes this if he's fast enough, and HE IS, even Sasuke can't follow his movements.
3)Susanoo: Shit. Itachi's trump card. Itachi takes this if Bee goes Bijuu, and that's the end, as Bijuu are much easier to hit. But if Bee keeps on dodging, I don't see how Susanoo can affect him.
SO THE VERDICT IS:1) Susanoo Itachi + Killer Bee Bijuu= Itachi takes this.
2)Susanoo Itachi+ Killer Bee normal= Bee keeps on dodging, Bee takes this.
3)Itachi + Bee (both normal)= Have to say Bee. Greater endurance, Immunity to Tsukuyomi and any other genjutsu, too fast sword movements. Itachi has only speed and Amaterasu in his favor, and his speed is of no use if Bee doesn't get hurt. Bee also has a chance of surprise, Itachi doesn't know Bee is immune to genjutsu.
SO!!! Bee takes cases 2) and 3), and Itachi takes case 1), by Rule of Majority, Bee wins.And now the damn guy has Samehada, which means stealing other's chakra and regeneration, as demonstrated by Kisame. Bee beats Itachi.

Gats
May 13, 2010, 11:14 AM
Itachi.
Even his Tsuyukomi would work, since it lasts really 1 or 2s this time, unlike Sasuke's weak MS genjutsu (as Danzou stated). Hachibi wouldn't have the time to remove it before the huge pain or fatal hit. The manga showed that it was not automatically removed, Hachibi has to react, otherwise Bee wouldn't fall in the first place.

Even if Bee runs away from his Susano'o, Itachi would just have to cancel it until Bee's return. So Bee has to make a surprising return in order to take down Itachi before he summons his Susano'o again. And it's really difficult to catch an healthy Itachi off guard.

If Bee can make a KB he can make a clone of himself while in Hachibi form and firing his huge chakra blast from different sides then Susano'o won't be able to block everything at the same time. But still. Itachi is the great favorite here.

About Raizen's theory/fact or whatever about Tsuyukomi : your point is only fine if Hachibi is also mentally inside the genjutsu. And I think he is not inside it, otherwise he would also be under Sasuke's genjutsu and would not be able to help Bee too. So Hachibi is really like an outside partner even if he is inside Bee's body.


edit : about Amateratsu => Bee doing a replacement is fine and all, but it won't work twice to Itachi, or won't work at all. Bee was lucky that Sasuke was concerned by Karin, otherwise Sasuke would see it, as stated in the manga during the discussion between him and Madara about his failure.

Amaterasu953
July 24, 2010, 10:42 AM
Sure Killer Bee is very very strong... But look Itachi is not the open-fight shinobi. He decompose his enemys with strong genjutsu and if the enemy is strong ( and killer bee is ) he finish him with Amaterasu or in emergency with the susanoo. Killer Bee is special he is a Jinchuriki who controlls his bijuu 100% so he can break genjutsus easy ( look narutopedia ). So if itachi use genjutsu ( and he would ) he have some seconds time too use Amaterasu or some firestyle-jutsus too finish him before bee can break through genjutsu. Itachi is skilled enought too do that... and thats the point why itachi would win ^_^

mattiaildivino
October 09, 2011, 06:45 AM
if itachi is healthy he wins,and perhaps he would win anyway. killer bee was faster than sasuke,who was slower than itachi,and in volume 58 we saw that itachi and Bee had more or less the same speed. healthy itachi should be faster,and with susanoo,amaterasu and tsukuyomi he wins