PDA

View Full Version : Discussion Mana & the Earl... ?



OQO
April 28, 2009, 06:12 AM
Is just me, having hallucinations, or there's really a huge similarity between Mana Walker and the Earl of the Millenium??

http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/13/39145.jpg Mana from the anime

Mana from night 137 (http://www.onemanga.com/D.Gray-Man/137/17/) Foundling child and pierrot

The Earl from night 158 (http://www.onemanga.com/D.Gray-Man/158/09) The evil flower(the evil flower... Kanda's the heart! Kanda's is the heart! Trust me! :eyeroll)


They look exactly the same!!!!!!!! Same hat! Same coat! Same everything!!!


I guess once more! Mana is the white side of the Earl of the Millenium! That's explains his speach in the last page I linked!
The Earl and the 14th are "the" brothers and this would explain because Allen and the Earl have got the same sword! :eyeroll

What's your opinion!? What's your guess!!?? :tem

Oh! Yeeh!!! There's more: this would also explain Cross words to Allen: "When you became the 14th you are gonna kill someone you love"!! Cross is speaking of the Earl!!!

I'm sure! Hoshino is good, but i'm better! :P

cristina23
April 28, 2009, 06:54 AM
I like your theory, there is just one thing that don't match, that night when Mana was turned into akuma, the earl and Mana, was there in the same time, but that page with the earl's dream, it's very very interesting....

OQO
April 28, 2009, 07:17 AM
I thought about this point: like Tiky, Mana-Earl can be two differents souls, or spirits whatever they are, and share the same body. Allen called for Mana while in front of him there was only the Earl. And...

Look at this page! (http://www.onemanga.com/D.Gray-Man/3/18/)

When Allen hits the Mana-Akuma body, the Earl disappears! And the Earl himself says that he doesn't know why he didn't kill Allen that night: "was it coincidence or was it inevitable?"

;)

Siberia
April 28, 2009, 08:39 AM
many people have thought of it but I don't feel they are the same person. (i don't want)
14th/Allen loves Mana; 14th/Allen kills the Earl
Mana loves Allen/14th; the Earl kills Allen/14th

so........Mana is not the Earl

And at the night when Allen turnt Mana to Akuma, the Earl was there.....
I cannot tell anymore until the Earl shows up again

ying_su
April 28, 2009, 09:22 AM
Good spoiler tag^^ Are these subliminaldirect messages? XD


I'm sure! Hoshino is good, but i'm better!
Yeah, you can be sure^^ but i'm not^^ For sure Hoshino is better! XD

Ok, ok, let's see your theory: :)


When Allen hits the Mana-Akuma body, the Earl disappears! And the Earl himself says that he doesn't know why he didn't kill Allen that night: "was it coincidence or was it inevitable?"

Before that chapter i simply thought The Earl just goes after create the akuma without feellin' really interested in how it kills the human.
But after that chapter i just reconsidered it. There's something in that moment still hiden but important to understand the plot in the future, i'm sure.

But about your theory:
Well, since the Earl nature is practically unknown there's not too much we can say about him.

But we know this:
Noah souls jump from one human to another (as in reincarnation) and awake after some time (that's what happened to Skin).
I think only the Earl can trully kill a Noah. And that's what he did with the 14th.
But the fourteen, knowing this, implanted his memories/soul (a copy?) into another human (Allen) before fight definitelly the Earl and die.
So conclusion: The 14th sould jumped into *** Walker, who resulted to have a brother: Mana Walker. That's all the relation of Mana with the Earl.

OQO
April 28, 2009, 10:26 AM
Good spoiler tag^^ Are these subliminaldirect messages? XD

Ooooppsss!! :p Sorry! I didn't thought about it! :tem



Before that chapter i simply thought The Earl just goes after create the akuma without feellin' really interested in how it kills the human.
But after that chapter i just reconsidered it. There's something in that moment still hiden but important to understand the plot in the future, i'm sure.
But we know this: ... That's all the relation of Mana with the earl.

Hum! :darn Sorry, I didn't get the first part...

Ok, what was given us to know is just what you wrote, but... my question is: if Mana is not the earl, why are they so alike? What's the point in it? Because they are very very very similar...

I'm not pretending to know the plot (yep Hoshino is better: she is gonna come out with something completly different from what we suppose!), but I enjoy daydreaming! :D

ying_su
April 28, 2009, 10:44 AM
but I enjoy daydreaming!
Yeah! Me too!! :D

Let's see, about your question: Maybe they are just alike as the gentlemen in that century could be. And also, it just could be an sthetic reason: Hoshino is playing with the "Clown" concept from the very beginning and also around the series: The Earl and Mana (and Allen/14th) as two types of Clown: aguste, character..^^

Although you can use my own argument about clowns to tell me: Hey! There's another argument for my theory or something.


Before that chapter i simply thought The Earl just goes after create the akuma without feellin' really interested in how it kills the human.
I'll explain it:
If i were the Earl, and i created the akumas, seeing how akuma kill their human relative could be something really boring at the end...(imaging seeing and akuma creation hundred of times per day, --even i could save time--)so i could just let it happens without stay there to see it.
That's was what i thought when i read it at the beginning of this series. But after the Earl words i know now it's not just it, but something more^^
:)

eni
April 28, 2009, 10:48 AM
Don't want to make predictions on this since I prefer to go with the story flow but...
14th/Allen loves Mana; 14th/Allen kills the Earl
Mana loves Allen/14th; the Earl kills Allen/14th
That would be the twist in it ^^

Hm, I don't think they are the same person either but in some way or another very close. Though, I wouldn't mind if it turns out like this.

cristina23
April 28, 2009, 11:16 AM
How about this theory:
Cross said Mana and the 14th was fighting against the earl, so the earl and Mana knew each other, then why the earl choose Mana and Allen to manufacture akuma, he want just to torture Mana this way or he had another motive? For exemple he knew about there is the 14th and this way he want to kill, or subordonate him once and for all. Or the 14th wasn't in Allan yet, and this way with Allen's innocence(becourse just the innocence could kill a noah) he want to kill the 14th, who was in Mana but with that curse he jumped in Allen.
I know it's diffuse yet, but hope it's understandable.

shinobi
April 28, 2009, 11:48 AM
How about this theory:
Cross said Mana and the 14th was fighting against the earl, so the earl and Mana knew each other, then why the earl choose Mana and Allen to manufacture akuma, he want just to torture Mana this way or he had another motive? For exemple he knew about there is the 14th and this way he want to kill, or subordonate him once and for all. Or the 14th wasn't in Allan yet, and this way with Allen's innocence(becourse just the innocence could kill a noah) he want to kill the 14th, who was in Mana but with that curse he jumped in Allen.
I know it's diffuse yet, but hope it's understandable.

there's one thing, it was mentioned that the 14th memories were implanted into Allen before the 14th died, that means long before Mana cursed Allen, yes it was said in a funny way and all, but still I think it's the truth. so then 14th memories couldn't be transferred to Allen by Mana's curse cause they were already in Allen by that time, but not awakened.

I for now don't like the idea of Mana and Earl being the same person:darn

cristina23
April 28, 2009, 12:08 PM
Yeah your right my theory has too many weak points :(

ca12nag3
April 28, 2009, 01:00 PM
What puzzles me most is when at the Tea-party in the garden with all the noah Earl ponders over why he didnt kill Allen at the time.
To my opinion a human little boy that is a able to kill an akuma should be taken care of imidiatly. Thus Earl questions himself why he didnt. Also he doesnt seem to know Mana at all.So i wonder if the earl is a noah at all.
After all the Ark was created by Noah in order of God to save him and his kind so the earl pre-dates the noahs. Also the noahs were on Gods side in this story. Im thinking of the posibility that Earl infiltrated the Ark took over and brainwashed the noahs believing they serve God thrue the earl.
Ofcorse the 14ths brainwash didnt succeed and he escaped. Earl then calls him a traitor and ofcorse the brainwashed noahs see the 14th as a traitor. the 14th might have taken his brother Mana with him while he first sabotages the Ark before leaving.Earl doesnt know Mana and the 14th that good other then that the 14th is able to controle the Ark, logical cause he rigged it.
Another piece in this puzzle would be that the akuma egg is not a piece of the original Ark whilst the rest is copy/pasted by Road Kamalot. So why cant she simply copy paste this? After all there are now 2 arks 1 commandeerd by the 14th/Allen the other one by Road Kamalot & used by the earl.
The egg stayed with the 1st ark and wasnt copied still the rest was. So im thinking it was placed later. by the Earl. And it didnt belong with the Ark in the first place.

So the noahs and the earl i see as 2 different parties and the earl simply controles the noahs. Perhaps he implanted them with dark matter so he can controle them. Seeing the blind loyalty of the Akuma he creates with dark matter that would make sence.

So it might have failed with the 14th and Mana. I do see that their clothing styl matches that of the earl but whos the nr 1 imposter? and the liar ...the earl. Not the 14th or Mana.
Mana i see as perhaps a noah but 1 without this dark matter as it seems he dont have powers. the 14th does have powers. Perhaps during the implantation of the dark matter he broke free rescued his brother and rigged the Ark and ran.

just a wild theory ^^

OQO
May 08, 2009, 02:54 PM
Just found an other link-hint here (http://www.onemanga.com/D.Gray-Man/135/DGM_135_pg15/)!
The buttons show the symbol that is also under the shoes of Tiky and Road! Do they simply wear the same brand of clothing, or else? :eyeroll

However, also on that page, mana looks like the thinner version of the earl ... Cross said he (Mana) lost it when the 14th died... He forgot what he was (the earl)! And when he died and went back being the earl he forgot about being Mana. I think he's the earl! Would be very interesting: the earl would be saved by Allen, in this case! Allen would redeem himself!

ca12nag3
May 08, 2009, 03:22 PM
well the most puzzeling is that it apears under road and tykis shoes wich indicates that its a secret symbol/ or at least has a high value with the noahs

Sydney
August 19, 2009, 12:48 PM
Well...

I'm more inclined to believe this theory after chapter 187. After all...

The Earl looks like Mana! (http://www.onemanga.com/D.Gray-Man/187/51/)

So the evidence is quite strong there. The only reason I don't accept it fully is because Mana is dead. He was turned into an akuma with the help of the Earl, no less. So Hoshino has to provide a really lovely twist to explain how the Earl is still alive if he is Mana.

And if the Earl is Mana it will answer a lot of questions.

SubliminalInsanity
August 19, 2009, 01:43 PM
I know making predictions doesn't make "going with the flow of the story" any easier, but it certainly sparks more excitement and interest in one might just happen.

I had always felt that there was something about Mana and the Earl that seemed to add to something, and now after seeing the recent chapter, I feel that my assumptions are getting just a little closer to the mark.

Although it's a little sad to know that the manga will more than likely be shifted from weekly to monthly, it nevertheless is great to know that the series will not be coming to an end.

I really look forward to the next issue in the fall. ^^

OQO
August 20, 2009, 03:17 PM
So the evidence is quite strong there. The only reason I don't accept it fully is because Mana is dead. He was turned into an akuma with the help of the Earl, no less. So Hoshino has to provide a really lovely twist to explain how the Earl is still alive if he is Mana.

And if the Earl is Mana it will answer a lot of questions.

Exactly! The Earl beeing Mana is the aswer: he lived, how much, 7000 years!!! He is immortal, or quite, in someway...why should he have died?

:facepalm :)

hopeandlight
August 20, 2009, 03:43 PM
what if the 14th, Mana, and the Earl are three brothers
and Mana and Earl are twins

SubliminalInsanity
August 20, 2009, 04:47 PM
what if the 14th, Mana, and the Earl are three brothers
and Mana and Earl are twins

Hey that's an interesting idea. And when you think about it that type of scenario does happen sometimes, {i.e. a secret 14th member or hybrid of two creatures, etc.] which gives a great plot-twist effect. Though I'm still more leaning towards the idea of the Earl and Mana being one in the same, I think this theory would also be one to take under consideration.

ca12nag3
August 20, 2009, 05:49 PM
If this were the case that Earl and Mana are 1 and the same person its only valid if its a Kami-Piccolo situation were 2 beings were 1 and the same and the evil and the good split apart creating 2 entities that look the same but are 2 oposits.
So either the earl spawned Mana or Mana spawned the earl.
Its the only way simply cause Earl stood next to manas grave asking Allen if he wanted to wish him back and he did. So both were at the same spot at the same time.

It also meens that its easier to understand a split in loyalty between the noahs cause who do you follow? the earl or Mana? both look the same... lol. And ofc the earl would call the 14th a traitor that way. All rather simple this way.

Sydney
August 20, 2009, 07:47 PM
Exactly! The Earl beeing Mana is the aswer: he lived, how much, 7000 years!!! He is immortal, or quite, in someway...why should he have died?

:facepalm :)

Well, Mana came back as an akuma. As far as it said in the manga, you have to be dead in order to come back as an akuma. If Mana is the Earl and immortal, and didn't die, then how did he become an akuma? :confused:

That is the main twist Hoshino has to answer for the theory to work out, I think.

Unless like ca12nag3 said and he split himself or something...*shrug*

But what is also interesting is that we don't know how Mana died. Allen never said how he died or gave it much thought. We don't know if he was there at the time or someone told him. It is still a mystery. Maybe for a reason.

ying_su
August 26, 2009, 05:31 AM
I hate twins since i read Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles.... ¬_¬

Btw, remember the 1st Noah didnt reincarnate in the last 7000 years and Mana was born, got older and died as a normal human in the sXIX.

ca12nag3
August 26, 2009, 07:53 AM
In the anime you see a wrecked carrage behind Mana and Allen as they lay on the ground... not canon but it could be an accident or something.
Mana hmm id think hes a noah, he knows to much for a regular human. He knew the entire language of the 14th in detail and he wears the symbol of the noah, also for a homeless bum hes to well dressed ^^. >>> Like Tykki!

ying_su
August 27, 2009, 04:44 AM
he knows to much for a regular human.
That's way he was the 14th ally, i think...

ca12nag3
August 29, 2009, 04:54 PM
Well its still possible for Mana to have been a noah, he could have lived like Tykki does.
[hr]
Looking over whats possible and what info there is:
-Allen has the same but oposite sword of the earl
-Mana and earl look alike ( that does not say much tho )
-14th /who is Allen in a way/ betray the earl and took along Mana
-earl 14th and Mana are seperate entities all seen together at some point alive, recalled or dead (Akuma Mana for example)
-special note: Mana is never mentioned by any noah. Could mean he was known by another name or not significant enough.

Few options i have for who or what the 3/4 characters are and their relation toward eachother.

1: 14th & earl were at some point 1 being that split in 2, Mana in this case is the noah human brother of this entity and taken along by the 14th half. Earl in this case is the evil half of 14th and visa versa.

2: Earl & Mana were 1 entity at some point that split in 2, in this case Mana is very important cause he would be the missing piece and the 14th/Allen has to prolly kill the evil half of his brother?

3 Earl and Mana are brothers as humans ( remember the earl reborn in this world but its not said when so it could have been some years back). Downfall is how could the 14th be Mana's brother, its highly unlikely 2 noah come from the same human family...i think.

4: Earl and Mana arnt related at all and the similarities are just to throw us off by Hoshino. Mana is in this case the human brother of the 14th.

5: Earl and 14th are a split entity. The 14th and Mana are both noahs and share an artificial noah brother relationship. (Like Tykki & Road)( tho there is more to it i asume since he looks like that man acording to Wisely and Road asked that to be kept secret, that man could however be either Mana or 14th, im not sure.)

To me option 1,2 & 5 are most likely. Tho the similarities i cant just toss them aside and Hoshino never used any tricks to throw her readers off. Similarities could all be reflected to the 14th if he and the earl were the same person at 1 point, that way the 14th/earl was the brother of Mana, even a noah relation would be a good option.