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View Full Version : Chapter Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 04 and 05 Discussion/Predictions



Sai_the_Shaman
May 01, 2009, 01:01 PM
New chapters are out! Go discuss about them!

(on a side note, TL might be late, as I'm kinda dying from pharyngitis right now >.> )

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 01:07 PM
So...Momo got smoked...and Konomi has the common sense to come up with awesome matchups

Demi God VS The emperor

May end up becoming my favorite match and usurping Atobe VS Echizen

And Konomi needs to learn how to proportion his rackets..sometimes they're the right size other times they look like kids rackets

Momo proves that he's taken lessons from Roronoa Zoro

One last thing, about the guy who beat momo

If you watched the PoT live action Movie, Egate or whatever his name is hit shot that destroyed the strings of Ryoma's racket and ryoma ends up with two strings and hits a cool drive, perhaps Konomi was referencing that..

Konomi is showing the precision of these HS kids...the fact that he can rally with that Racket means that Blanka is always hitting the sweet spot (or where it should be)

bellcrossage
May 01, 2009, 01:25 PM
Does Momo's opponent's racket only have 2 strings, one going up and down, while the other is left and right? If that's the case, how can he hit a ball with that many strings? (At least that's what it looks like to me).


Edit (after finishing Chapter 5):
I hope that Konomi-sensei allows the reader to see the 6th match, Captain vs Vice-Captain of Rikkai Dai. That should be fun to see.

Sai_the_Shaman
May 01, 2009, 01:25 PM
Quick summary for you people since I may not do the tl today:

Chapter 4:

Momo vs Oni. Oni uses a racket with a single cross gut. It looks like the Kanji for 10, which is in his name (Juu in Juujirou). Oni's nickname is Hell's Guard. When Momo tried to do a jack knife, Oni basically said that Momo's jack knife was a pansy's jack knife and that this is what a real one looks like. He essentially "broke" Momo's wrists (both of them with it).

Chapter 5:

Continuation of Momo/Oni match. Momo resorts to cradling his racket and kinda playing that way. Oni, keeps on jack knifing him (now know as the Black Jack Knife). No matter how many times Momo keeps getting beat down he gets back up, to everyone's surprise. Momo loses and thanks Oni for the match. Oni asks for Momo's name and tells him to come after him. We get introduced to the Mental Coach, Saitou Itaru (he's really tall and always hits his head walking into a room....his name Itaru is a play on that since it's a pun for hurting). He introduces himself to the middle schoolers. He tells them to pair up which gets everyone excited cause they think it'll be doubles. He say nope, it'll be singles and the loser of the match has to go home. The list of who vs who is pretty much already completed on the previous discussion thread by atobe the king....look it up

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 01:34 PM
Quick summary for you people since I may not do the tl today:

Chapter 4:

Momo vs Oni. Oni uses a racket with a single cross gut. It looks like the Kanji for 10, which is in his name (Juu in Juujirou). Oni's nickname is Hell's Guard. When Momo tried to do a jack knife, Oni basically said that Momo's jack knife was a pansy's jack knife and that this is what a real one looks like. He essentially "broke" Momo's wrists (both of them with it).

Chapter 5:

Continuation of Momo/Oni match. Momo resorts to cradling his racket and kinda playing that way. Oni, keeps on jack knifing him (now know as the Black Jack Knife). No matter how many times Momo keeps getting beat down he gets back up, to everyone's surprise. Momo loses and thanks Oni for the match. Oni asks for Momo's name and tells him to come after him. We get introduced to the Mental Coach, Saitou Itaru (he's really tall and always hits his head walking into a room....his name Itaru is a play on that since it's a pun for hurting). He introduces himself to the middle schoolers. He tells them to pair up which gets everyone excited cause they think it'll be doubles. He say nope, it'll be singles and the loser of the match has to go home. The list of who vs who is pretty much already completed on the previous discussion thread by atobe the king....look it up

I didn't make that list someone else did :), i was just posting who i felt would win the credit goes to Kobashi, i don't like taking credit for things i didn't do

Oh lol....figure kobashi did them >.>

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 02:28 PM
Dude, that means either Sanada or Yukimura needs to go home? That sucks...

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 02:31 PM
Dude, that means either Sanada or Yukimura needs to go home? That sucks...

This really does suck...a lot of these match ups looked awesome until this was revealed...

wait...

could this have been a foreshadowing? are these guys the winners of their respective matches? everyone in this image has a scheduled match up

http://img-gg-01.onemanga.com/mangas/00003362/000149772/02-03.jpg

Oh and what was that thing in the southwest corner of this image? a DVD of sorts?

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 02:37 PM
That image was the first thing that came to my mind too, however Shiraishi isn't on there. Hopefully it isn't foreshadowing. I wouldn't want Kintarou on the team over Chitose.

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 02:40 PM
That image was the first thing that came to my mind too, however Shiraishi isn't on there. Hopefully it isn't foreshadowing. I wouldn't want Kintarou on the team over Chitose.

Well there are WAY more matches so maybe he just wasn't up there....but if my theory is right that mean Yukimura is out?

Im okay with all the other ones but why did Yuki and Sanada have to play each other...? it better be the greatest freaking match of the series then

Dansan1
May 01, 2009, 03:17 PM
I doubt we'll get to see the bulk of any of the matches. Stop teasing us, Konomi! They all look pretty awesome.

Here is my theory...

I have a serious feeling that as it is the Mental couch that people aren't really going home (maybe some, but not necessarily on the basis of the outcome of the match).

But I think it's a mind game to get them to go all out. Then he judges them based on how they handled it.

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 03:28 PM
you know that could work too..maybe they wont go home but be reserve or something

Sherlock Holmes
May 01, 2009, 03:31 PM
Question, does that mean Momo is out of the camp?

Dansan1
May 01, 2009, 03:33 PM
No, that was just their normal matches.

Then the mental coach came and gave them this exercise that they thought would be doubles, but then he revealed this elimination thing.

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 03:41 PM
My guess is:

Jackal will play Bunta
Echizen will play Momoshiro
Gay guys will play each other.

These were all picked by the players, not the coach. It is all a matter of guessing who would pick who for a doubles match.

As for the elimination, I believe it. I don't think it is just a test.

All match-up discussions can go here:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1335234#post1335234

lasenorita
May 01, 2009, 03:43 PM
but if my theory is right that mean Yukimura is out?

I think hinoai once mentioned that Yukimura was actually right where Kite is. Konomi-sensei apparently thought he looked creepy/didn't look right(?) so he was replaced.

He won't make Yukimura go home. Please, nooooooo! T_T
But I suppose if Yukimura can't find the strength to beat Sanada, where's the hope of him overcoming the other strong players. I wonder if he still has that self-assured confidence he displayed before his match with Echizen...

Still, Yukimura + Sanada > most everyone else. I really hope this is just a mind game, and that only the head coach makes the real decision on who stays and who goes. >_< (I'd be happy with an epic game, though.)

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 03:46 PM
Yukimura and Sanada on the same team is broken. I understand Konomi doing this.

Atobe the king
May 01, 2009, 03:51 PM
But its world wide tennis right? i remember Mr Inoe complaining about a lack of good Japanese players..whose to say the other countries teams are any less broken?

Then again all of Nagoya were foreigners who were promptly crushed once Rikkai got all the alcohol out of their system

Sherlock Holmes
May 01, 2009, 04:09 PM
Momo has got plot hax. He just got a new rival, he won't lose until they meet each other.

Tezuka,Fuji and Echizen also have Plot hax.

I wonder about the rest of them...

If it comes down to Sanada vs Yukimura, I think Yukimura should win, if only because he only played one match in the entire series.

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 04:48 PM
But its world wide tennis right? i remember Mr Inoe complaining about a lack of good Japanese players..whose to say the other countries teams are any less broken?

Then again all of Nagoya were foreigners who were promptly crushed once Rikkai got all the alcohol out of their system

Rikkai threw that match on purpose, remember the following results?

Renji and Niou 6-1'd
Sanada 6-0'd

[hr]

Talk about matchups in my thread gai

KuwabaraTheMan
May 01, 2009, 08:34 PM
Even though Momoshiro lost, he really showed how awesome he was, essentially playing without his arms. That has to be among the most awesome things anyone has done in the series.

The matchups definitely look great, and I'm sure the whole 'loser goes home' thing is a psychological tactic.

Fayte
May 01, 2009, 08:50 PM
I really don't know if it is a tactic or not. I think it is 70/30. I don't think the losers will play on the Japan team.

findingkaho
May 02, 2009, 01:01 AM
My guess is:

Jackal will play Bunta
Echizen will play Momoshiro
Gay guys will play each other.

These were all picked by the players, not the coach. It is all a matter of guessing who would pick who for a doubles match.

As for the elimination, I believe it. I don't think it is just a test.

All match-up discussions can go here:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1335234#post1335234


Kaharu's partner didn't get an invitation to this camp ?

I'd like to see Tezuka Vs Kaidoh lol I wanna know how Tezuka can fight against Kaidoh's Invisible skill! and Yuuta should comes with new skill that can counter Fuiji's counters!

Atobe the king
May 02, 2009, 01:23 AM
Kaharu's partner didn't get an invitation to this camp ?

I'd like to see Tezuka Vs Kaidoh lol I wanna know how Tezuka can fight against Kaidoh's Invisible skill! and Yuuta should comes with new skill that can counter Fuiji's counters!

If Yuuta did that then he'd be better than Nio and Shiriahsi...which he isn't

Tezuka would own Kaido, he can't lose to anyone weakier than Sanada,Yukimura, or Echizen

findingkaho
May 02, 2009, 03:11 AM
If Yuuta did that then he'd be better than Nio and Shiriahsi...which he isn't

Tezuka would own Kaido, he can't lose to anyone weakier than Sanada,Yukimura, or Echizen


Yes , i know that both will lose but Kaidoh should come up with his style right ? He won't lose like 6-0 --* that's kinda sad for him. maybe 6-1 lol
Yuuta maybe use the twist spin shot with two-hand! lol it's like Hadokyu lol

Atobe the king
May 02, 2009, 08:26 AM
Twist spin screws up your shoulder

alexlw92
May 02, 2009, 05:13 PM
wow...im 23 posts late for the zoro comment >.<

if it wasnt for the new hs characters, i woulda said this is all fanservice. now, its actually awesome PoT again.

mlandry
May 02, 2009, 11:48 PM
Kind of a deception to wait a month for that. Not a lot of pages and not much happened.

Playing with 2 strings is just... ugh.

Can't say I care much about Momoshiro either. Quite frankly seeing all the old characters back makes me sad. I thought a new series meant new storylines but it looks like a lot of it will be rehashed with the same characters just different matches. Originally, I hope hoping to see Echizen in the USA. After the 1st chapter, I was hoping for a new team with the other characters being pushed aside... Now it seems that they will have their own plots, without a doubt.

Anyways, it felt like I was reading a weekly manga, not a monthly manga, in terms of size and developpement. I already dislike monthly mangas but I was hoping he would at least make larger chapters if it was going to be monthly.

Atobe the king
May 03, 2009, 10:08 AM
Kind of a deception to wait a month for that. Not a lot of pages and not much happened.

Playing with 2 strings is just... ugh.

Can't say I care much about Momoshiro either. Quite frankly seeing all the old characters back makes me sad. I thought a new series meant new storylines but it looks like a lot of it will be rehashed with the same characters just different matches. Originally, I hope hoping to see Echizen in the USA. After the 1st chapter, I was hoping for a new team with the other characters being pushed aside... Now it seems that they will have their own plots, without a doubt.

Anyways, it felt like I was reading a weekly manga, not a monthly manga, in terms of size and developpement. I already dislike monthly mangas but I was hoping he would at least make larger chapters if it was going to be monthly.

Your in a SMALL minority the original series lacked closure, match ups didn't happen, character development was left incomplete this series is going to fix that, the fact that momo lost to a new character means it's not a rehash

Also from an mangaka's standpoint..getting the old characters that the fanbase grew to love over almost 9 years for some new characters they may not like? is not good for your manga's popularity

Also now that i read the scanlations...

Oni reminds me of Blanka and Udo Akira from Air gear

Udo Akira was a d class rider who had the strength of an A class but prevented others from climbing like Oni

And the guy looks like Blanka from SF

DavenSodan
May 03, 2009, 02:04 PM
Seriously how long will it take to show off all these known characters before the story can advance? 2 years? The wait is just too long with this monthly thing... but still, I liked that chapter pretty much.

KuwabaraTheMan
May 03, 2009, 04:18 PM
Seriously how long will it take to show off all these known characters before the story can advance? 2 years? The wait is just too long with this monthly thing... but still, I liked that chapter pretty much.

Well, Konomi did say that everything up until now was just a prologue...

But I doubt most of these matches are going to be shown in full. We'll have to wait and see next month, though. But I'd guess some of them like Tachibana vs Kadowaki might only take one or two panels to show.

Fayte
May 04, 2009, 03:47 PM
Well, Konomi did say that everything up until now was just a prologue...

But I doubt most of these matches are going to be shown in full. We'll have to wait and see next month, though. But I'd guess some of them like Tachibana vs Kadowaki might only take one or two panels to show.

Lol yeah. on a single page.

"Game set! Won by Tachibana! 6-0!"
[hr]
By the way, I completely forgot about the rest of the picture!
http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/00003362/000149772/02-03.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/02-03/

Kirihara
Fuji
Atobe
Kite
Sanada
Gin
Akutsu
Echizen
Jirou
Tanishi
Tezuka
Kintarou
Oshitari
Shinji
Ootori
Rin
Mizuki
Shiraishi
Yagyuu
Kurobane

Atobe the king
May 04, 2009, 05:41 PM
If our theory about the pics indicating the winner then it seems you were right about Mizuki taking Inui

Krauser will win
Shishido can't break Chotaro
Yagyu loses to Nio

Fayte
May 04, 2009, 09:45 PM
New theory:
Koharu plays against Gin

KuwabaraTheMan
May 05, 2009, 01:17 AM
New theory:
Koharu plays against Gin

It's possible. Most likely either him or Kenya, with the other one playing Shiraishi.

I'm not really buying the whole 'people on the covers are winners' theory, though. That would mean Yagyuu beats Niou, which seems unlikely.

Atobe the king
May 05, 2009, 01:25 AM
It's possible. Most likely either him or Kenya, with the other one playing Shiraishi.

I'm not really buying the whole 'people on the covers are winners' theory, though. That would mean Yagyuu beats Niou, which seems unlikely.

Yea...it's i only one hole but a HUGE one, so is Inui losing to Mizuki at this point but it can't be coincidence that all the characters wearing the team japan uniform in the color spreads happened to have match ups and no two people in the same match up are present

Neru
May 05, 2009, 03:34 AM
Well, I think it seem plausible. It's a list of the absoloute favorites who can't loose, combined with other good guys who never had a chance to show off.
Either Yagyu beats Niou ( which isn't that far-fetched considering that they played togheter for a while), or it's actually Niou in disguise..
Mizuki winning over Inui isn't that bad of a choice either, seeing as Mizuki has more to offer than Inui who's pretty much complete already.

Most of all, Sanada should be able to handle Yukimura. Although Sanadas main goal was to beat Tezuka, I am sure he thought up of a way to deal with Yukimura too, should it come down to it. But since they were on the same team, there where never any reason to show it.
Besides, when Sanada ( and Atobe ) captured all those tennis balls it showed his absoloute passion for tennis and to never lose, even at the cost of other. That sort of resolution is hard to beat. ;)

Fayte
May 05, 2009, 06:46 AM
Yagyuu beating Niou is certainly not far fetched. That is the reason I chose Yagyuu over Niou in the first place. Yagyuu is the last of Rikkaidai to show that he is of "Tezuka class" in singles.

Bowser
May 05, 2009, 10:45 AM
Didn't Niou say something about Yagyuu overtaking him when they were playing against Oishi and Kikumaru during the Kantou finals?

And in the anime (dunno about the manga), Ootori couldnt overcome his emotions in the Junior Invitational camp against Shishido, maybe we will see this in the manga?

And oh wait, Kabaji isnt there haha...I like the idea of Koharu playing Gin though and Kenya playing Shiraishi. That means most my predictions could be wrong!!


Besides, when Sanada ( and Atobe ) captured all those tennis balls it showed his absoloute passion for tennis and to never lose, even at the cost of other. That sort of resolution is hard to beat.

That's just showing off isn't it?

KuwabaraTheMan
May 05, 2009, 11:02 AM
Didn't Niou say something about Yagyuu overtaking him when they were playing against Oishi and Kikumaru during the Kantou finals?

That was just anime created garbage. Like all of the anime version of that match. There was never anything along those lines said in the manga.

Atobe the king
May 05, 2009, 12:11 PM
Didn't Niou say something about Yagyuu overtaking him when they were playing against Oishi and Kikumaru during the Kantou finals?

And in the anime (dunno about the manga), Ootori couldnt overcome his emotions in the Junior Invitational camp against Shishido, maybe we will see this in the manga?

And oh wait, Kabaji isnt there haha...I like the idea of Koharu playing Gin though and Kenya playing Shiraishi. That means most my predictions could be wrong!!


That's just showing off isn't it?

Yea they were just showing off because they are the 2 of the top 3 most arrogant characters in the series, Atobe being #1, Ryoma at 2 and Sanada at 3

And the anime butchered the Rikkai arc like Hinata fan mentioned

First off, Momo and Kaido got beaten 6-1 not 7-5 but it wasn't a blow out..there are tennis matches where the score is misleading they fought just as hard in the manga but the score was still 6-1

Yagyu doesn't golf...period...ever

Renji and Inui was left alone

Fuji VS Kirihara...just pure Fuji fanservice

Sanada VS Echizen....that match was a box of fuck ups

The anime was a decent adaptation until the Rokkaku match

Fayte
May 05, 2009, 01:49 PM
First off, Momo and Kaido got beaten 6-1 not 7-5 but it wasn't a blow out..there are tennis matches where the score is misleading they fought just as hard in the manga but the score was still 6-1




Most people forget it really was a blow out. They got beat 6-1 when Jackal and Bunta had their wrist weights on.

KuwabaraTheMan
May 05, 2009, 02:52 PM
Most people forget it really was a blow out. They got beat 6-1 when Jackal and Bunta had their wrist weights on.

Well, they managed to push them pretty far. I think they said they would have had to take off their weights to keep going past that game.

And Momo was injured, too.

Oni_James
May 05, 2009, 03:40 PM
Lol yeah. on a single page.

"Game set! Won by Tachibana! 6-0!"
<hr noshade size="1">
By the way, I completely forgot about the rest of the picture!
http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/00003362/000149772/02-03.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/02-03/

Kirihara
Fuji
Atobe
Kite
Sanada
Gin
Akutsu
Echizen
Jirou
Tanishi
Tezuka
Kintarou
Oshitari
Shinji
Ootori
Rin
Mizuki
Shiraishi
Yagyuu
Kurobane

so if the spreads are right...Amane will not pass? Noooo!! He is a great player plus his puns are needed XD
if Kirihara passes that means he beats Yanagi, i bet something he'll try to beat Yukimura and Sanada after Yanagi...
if by some chance those people all pass, it'd be grate to see some pwning double pairs, like Atobe and Ryoma, God that'd be imposible to beat, but i suppose they won't go well, so they'd play as individuals...

Atobe the king
May 05, 2009, 04:08 PM
Well, they managed to push them pretty far. I think they said they would have had to take off their weights to keep going past that game.

And Momo was injured, too.

Now whenever i think of this match i think of Rafael nadal VS Robin Soderling last week, the score was 6-1,6-0...but the 6-1 took 48 minutes that's a damn long time for a breadstick, because it was tighter than it seemed

Thats what i gathered from the Momo and Kaido match with Bunta and the normal guy (Jackal is the most realistic character imo)

Fayte
May 05, 2009, 04:29 PM
It really wasn't close at all, though. They won 1 game at 5-0, made it 5-1, and then lost 6-1. They got dominated. Jackal and Bunta were the rank 1 doubles pair in the nationals. I would certainly hope they wouldn't be losing to two semi-good singles players.

DavenSodan
May 06, 2009, 09:47 AM
I'm with Fayte on this one. Even though the last 2 games took certainly way longer than the rest because Kaido and Momo got a nice stragety it is imaginbale that the Rikkai Dai pair could(!) have won the last two games at the same pace if they didnt wear that metal things.

Rikkai pair (not even trying) > MomoKaido (normal)
Rikkai pair (semi-serious) still > MomoKaido (at their best)

Oni_James
May 06, 2009, 11:03 AM
Rikkai pwned Seigaku in the manga at first, then they lost in the nationals, and i suppose they've been training to beat who beat them, another Fuji vs Nioh, and Fuji'd loose... so as Tezuka vs Sanada, Tezuka wins, i expect they do some character development for some PoT characters that seemed to have talent, but wasn't very clear because they lost, like Jiroh or Kirihara... (how strange they both lost against Fuji ¬¬)

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 12:41 PM
Rikkai pwned Seigaku in the manga at first, then they lost in the nationals, and i suppose they've been training to beat who beat them, another Fuji vs Nioh, and Fuji'd loose... so as Tezuka vs Sanada, Tezuka wins, i expect they do some character development for some PoT characters that seemed to have talent, but wasn't very clear because they lost, like Jiroh or Kirihara... (how strange they both lost against Fuji ¬¬)

Niou wouldn't play Fuji again, nor would Sanada and Tezuka. The entire purpose of the Sanada/Tezuka match was to show that Tezuka was not the best, and to show that someone has surpassed him. Not like that match should have surprised anyone. They have been saying Sanada was the best middle school player throughout the entire series.

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 12:45 PM
I disagree that that was the purpose of the Tezuka/Sanada match. Only in the case that was what Konomi meant to do with that match for the story's sake.

Konomi himself has stated that he only had Sanada win because he wanted Fuji to win his match and so Tezuka had to lose. He actually said he went back and forth between the two. So Konomi could not have been purposefully planning to say that about Tezuka if in his story scenario it would have been okay for Tezuka to win.

So the purpose was not to say anything specific about Tezuka, rather the purpose was to push the story further by backing Seigaku into a wall.

By making the purpose of that match about Sanada and Tezuka is to miss the point of the drama. Again when I use the word purpose I'm talking about a universal sense.

Don't misunderstand me,

Konomi DID say specific things about Sanada and Tezuka in that match, but the purpose of the match was not to say those things. Those things were a necessary side effect.

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 03:46 PM
Konomi himself has stated that he only had Sanada win because he wanted Fuji to win his match and so Tezuka had to lose. He actually said he went back and forth between the two. So Konomi could not have been purposefully planning to say that about Tezuka if in his story scenario it would have been okay for Tezuka to win.



I need to see proof of this, because it sounds unlikely. Tezuka had to lose not because of Fuji, but because Echizen needs to become the pillar. The story is all about Echizen. I don't see how Fuji means anything.

KuwabaraTheMan
May 06, 2009, 03:58 PM
I need to see proof of this, because it sounds unlikely. Tezuka had to lose not because of Fuji, but because Echizen needs to become the pillar. The story is all about Echizen. I don't see how Fuji means anything.

From the 40.5 interview: "I had decided that Seigaku was going to lose the first match. If Seigaku won from the start, then readers would get the image that Rikkai was weak. And as for who was going to lose, it had to be either Tezuka or Fuji, so Rikkai's strength could be emphasized. That it would show exactly how strong this team was, led by Yukimura. But Fuji had lost in the previous match and I hesitated in making him lose again. I really struggled with the order. And when I finally came up with the most interesting order, Tezuka just had to lose. First Tezuka would lose, then they'll lose the next doubles. At that desperate point in time, Fuji - who lost in the Shitenhoji round - would snag a win for his team."

Of course, he also mentioned in that interview that he was undecided for awhile if it would be Rikkai or Nagoya Seitoku in he finals.

Atobe the king
May 06, 2009, 04:05 PM
Niou wouldn't play Fuji again, nor would Sanada and Tezuka. The entire purpose of the Sanada/Tezuka match was to show that Tezuka was not the best, and to show that someone has surpassed him. Not like that match should have surprised anyone. They have been saying Sanada was the best middle school player throughout the entire series.

He didn't surpass him...and Konomi fluctuated...at times Yuki was the best, other times Tezuka is the best and other times it's Sanada

They are pretty equal their H2H would probably be roughly equal Sanada wins this time but Tezuka may win the next time

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 04:41 PM
I dunno. I just don't think Tezuka has anything against Sanada. I'm sure if Konomi wanted to, he would pull out something absolutely ridiculous to make Tezuka win. However as of now, Tezuka has no chance imo.

Atobe the king
May 06, 2009, 04:58 PM
i believe they are roughly equal great rivalries aren't one sided (Federer needs to take a look at this statement >_>) Sanada has a better offense and tezuka has the better defense, Sanada has the stronger shots, Tezuka has the better serve...footwork w/o abilites may be equal but you don't really see either of them run around too much

Technically the h2h is like 2-1...

Basically, Tezuka can best FuuRinKaZan easily like he did before, Rai gets bested by the Zone, except this time Sanada knows not to spam it, and this time Tezuka wont be caught of guard, Just as Sanada stupidly spammed Rai tezuka stupidly withheld his phantom...pride is bitch in this series

Even the first match could have gone either way..actually i take that back it would have been a draw...a tennis player who's legs give out and one without arms cannot play...thats why Sanada was probably so intent on making sure the ball landed in his court because w/o legs a tennis player is useless...you can hide a bad FH or BH but not footwork

also why would it need to be ridiculous? i think the ability to create the vibe of multiple behavioral patterns and teleport around court are just as ridiculous as any future tezuka technique

KuwabaraTheMan
May 06, 2009, 05:14 PM
I think they're on the same level, but with Sanada having an edge. He has Muga, but didn't use it against Tezuka. Also, he did win the match. Sanada seems to have a more versatile playstyle from what we've seen, as well. Tezuka does have both Hyakuren and Saiki, which is a great combo.

I think Tezuka can beat him, but I would say Sanada wins 6 or 7 times out of 10.

Atobe the king
May 06, 2009, 05:27 PM
I think they're on the same level, but with Sanada having an edge. He has Muga, but didn't use it against Tezuka. Also, he did win the match. Sanada seems to have a more versatile playstyle from what we've seen, as well. Tezuka does have both Hyakuren and Saiki, which is a great combo.

I think Tezuka can beat him, but I would say Sanada wins 6 or 7 times out of 10.

Tezuka also has Muga, you can't unlock a door without Muga, Sanada doesn't use Muga because he knows it's weakness he teased Echizen about it

I say the H2H would be like.....8-7

I wouldn't say he's more Versatile, he has the more versatile attacking game..

To me it's like this

Power-Sanada
Precision-Tezuka
Defense-Tezuka
Offense-Sanada
Serve-Tezuka
Return-Equal (karinrai as a trump card return, and Hyakuren for any return)
Speed-Probably equal, Tezuka spends much of the match staying still
Spin-Tezuka
Slice-Equal (rin and Zero shiki)
Flat-Sanada(ka)

Sanada 6, Tezuka 7, roughly equal

I don't even think the match was a good gauge of their abilities because they both fuck around WAY too much, especially Tezuka

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 06:43 PM
The way I see it, even if the two of them play smart, Tezuka will never win. Sanada would win 10 out of 10 games. Why? Simply because Sanada beat all of Tezuka's techniques. Tezuka did not do the same.

Tezuka's Techniques:
*----> = gets defeated by*

PoGW ----> In
PoHW ----> Rai
Tezuka Zone ----> Ka and Rai
Tezuka Phantom ----> Rin
Zero-Shiki Drop Shot -----> Lightning
Zero-Shiki Serve -----> KaRinRai

Sanada's Techniques:
Fuu -----> Tezuka Zone
Rin -----> ?
Ka -----> PoHW
In -----> ?
Zan -----> ?
Rai -----> Tezuka Phantom
KaRinRai -----> ?
SoSA -----> ?

Atobe the king
May 06, 2009, 07:07 PM
Eh....nvm i don't feel like going into this again..the past is the past

a few points
-Tezuka has Muga
-techniques don't tell the whole story of a match
-I'm pretty sure KaRinRai isn't spammable
-Rin doesn't beat phantom it just makes him have to use it, and Rin is just a slice..if tezuka is having a world of problems with a slice then he needs to quit

1 loss does not equal domination

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 07:14 PM
From a match-up of techniques that they've shown/have I'd agree with Fayte, however I don't believe we can only match up the techniques they're known to have.

For instance Sanada had to seal In and Rai to beat Tezuka. Why? Because Tezuka is the class of player that if he knew about them in advance he would have had a plan to beat them. Sanada needed the surprise element. Sanada may be arrogant, but he's very smart.

The whole sealing techniques thing seems to be a pretty common martial arts story device.

Konomi also had Sanada specifically say right after he beat Tezuka that he would never play with the likes of him again.


So I'd place them at the same level currently, but as for who I'd bet would have the greatest career, I'd lean towards Tezuka.

That is of course assuming he finally overcomes his injury fetish. In real life when a player has a major injury that's pretty much it. They can come back to play, but I don't think I've ever seen one come back anywhere close to what he/she was. (Kuerten, Seles, Haas...etc)

If I took that into account, Tezuka was royally screwed by that sempai for life. I'd hunt him down.

But since this is manga, Konomi doesn't have to follow that rule.

By the way, thanks for that reference Hinata Fan, I couldn't find it for the life of me after I posted about it.

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 07:16 PM
Eh....nvm i don't feel like going into this again..the past is the past

a few points
-Tezuka has Muga
-techniques don't tell the whole story of a match
-I'm pretty sure KaRinRai isn't spammable
-Rin doesn't beat phantom it just makes him have to use it, and Rin is just a slice..if tezuka is having a world of problems with a slice then he needs to quit

1 loss does not equal domination

Nowhere does it say Tezuka obtained SoSA. Actually, the series suggests that he skipped it. You can't assume he has SoSA, or that KaRinRai isn't something Sanada could use as a counter to a Zero shiki serve, just because he used it once.

And Rin is classified as a lob with a spin on it. Not a slice. And that is how Sanada DID beat Phantom. It isn't a theory or anything.

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 07:33 PM
Quick question/note

"and Konomi fluctuated...at times Yuki was the best, other times Tezuka is the best and other times it's Sanada"


I was under the impression that the only one actually stated in manga as the best was Yukimura (I have a fuzzy remembrance about Tezuka possibly)

I can't recall them ever calling Tezuka specifically the best, indirectly, but not outright.

And they only called Sanada the best in the wake of Tezuka and Yukimura. They always had that specific classifier.


I may be wrong, but that's what I remembered. Wait now that i think about I can't even remember them ever calling Yukimura the best in manga, I definitely remember Konomi saying it in an interview, but I can't think of a chapter or page number for an in manga reference.

Guys, help?

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 07:45 PM
Sanada:
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/195/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/223/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/346/03/

Yukimura:
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/272/04/

Tezuka:
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/346/03/

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 07:50 PM
Thanks,

Although I find the Yukimura and Tezuka ones still only vaguely stated.

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 07:53 PM
Tezuka's was vaguely stated, and Yukimura's was even more vague.

KuwabaraTheMan
May 06, 2009, 07:55 PM
Thanks,

Although I find the Yukimura and Tezuka ones still only vaguely stated.

They're all pretty vague. The two ones about Sanada both say 'current', and at that point Yukimura and Tezuka were unable to play. There's no real consensus in the series on who the best truly is.

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 07:57 PM
Actually I can say for a fact who the best n the series is... Echizen. :P


But yeah all kidding aside in series I agree. Although we do have that Konomi interview where he said Yukimura was the best. I think he even said "by far", I can't remember. I don't suppose you have that one too?

That was one of my beefs with the ending of POT. Yukimura didn't get anything nearly as cool as Sanada or Tezuka.

Fayte
May 06, 2009, 07:59 PM
They're all pretty vague. The two ones about Sanada both say 'current', and at that point Yukimura and Tezuka were unable to play. There's no real consensus in the series on who the best truly is.

I don't believe they are excluding Tezuka and Yukimura, just because they were injured. They said "currently," meaning as of right now, nobody has a higher skill level in the entire middle school world.

Dansan1
May 06, 2009, 08:03 PM
That's possible. I'll have to reread the Japanese to see if there is a specific jist one way or the other in the actual text there.

I can't find the specific reference but I believe there is good reason to believe he was excluding them. I thought that it was pretty surely stated actually. I'd have to find it, but I'm pretty sure it was "in manga".

Atobe the king
May 06, 2009, 09:09 PM
Nowhere does it say Tezuka obtained SoSA. Actually, the series suggests that he skipped it. You can't assume he has SoSA, or that KaRinRai isn't something Sanada could use as a counter to a Zero shiki serve, just because he used it once.

And Rin is classified as a lob with a spin on it. Not a slice. And that is how Sanada DID beat Phantom. It isn't a theory or anything.

I don't know of anyone skipping the original Muga

I'm really convinced that KaRinRai isn't spammable...

That is slice if i ever saw one...racket head goes from high to low
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/352/06/
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/352/07/

Lol Rin is a pusher tactic


Actually I can say for a fact who the best n the series is... Echizen. :P

This isn't a joke this is serious...no one is beating this kid without a plot device...

-Teni muho...serves and hits strokes faster than the eye can see
-Regular kick serve kicks over your head
-the other 2 doors of muga
-Can actually control Muga No Kyouchi
-assload of dangerous drive volleys
-ambidextrous...i swear if a pro player could do that they would piss off A LOT of people


For instance Sanada had to seal In and Rai to beat Tezuka. Why? Because Tezuka is the class of player that if he knew about them in advance he would have had a plan to beat them. Sanada needed the surprise element. Sanada may be arrogant, but he's very smart.

His gameplan was to break the zone and spam Rai and serve up a tasty bagel for tezuka, unfortunately he didn't expect any resistance and used Rai for 2 more games than he had originally planned...thats why his legs gave out, as Yuki said it's not something to be used in excess

alexlw92
May 07, 2009, 04:14 AM
btw...oni juurushi is amibidextrous, or konomi made a mistake.

righty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/4/10-11/

lefty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/5/06/

Neru
May 07, 2009, 06:24 AM
btw...oni juurushi is amibidextrous, or konomi made a mistake.

righty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/4/10-11/

lefty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/5/06/

Its more likely that he hits both sides two handed ( In order to do jack knife ). That's not begin amibidextrous though.

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 08:12 AM
btw...oni juurushi is amibidextrous, or konomi made a mistake.

righty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/4/10-11/

lefty backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/New_Prince_of_Tennis/5/06/

He's just hitting his forehand and his backhand two handed off both wings

DavenSodan
May 07, 2009, 09:39 AM
In the end we will never know if Konimi meant Sanada is the best, because Yuki was in the hospital and it looked like he can never play tennis again and Tezuka being somewhere on recovery or if Sanada was truly the number 1 (Im excluding Echizen here).

The thing Im interested in is who would have won the match between Tezuka and Sanada if there were an rule against the use of any special shot or muga. Kinda senseless to discuss but I wonder after all who has got the better basics and real skills.

Dansan1
May 07, 2009, 10:23 AM
Actually in the end we do know because Konomi stated specifically that Yukimura was the best, even if it's a retcon we have to go with Konomi.

I would hesitate to separate them from their "special moves", because in POT those moves are the real skills. In POT things like Rai and Tezuka Zone aren't magic, they're just techniques grounded in their reality that are done by the skill of the user.

What I wondered, and mentioned in a pm to Atobe is whether these POT guys are the be all and end all of tennis in the POT universe. Or if the pros in that world are even crazier. I like to think that these Japanese Jr. High students aren't the best in the whole world, but ....

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 10:46 AM
Actually in the end we do know because Konomi stated specifically that Yukimura was the best, even if it's a retcon we have to go with Konomi.

I would hesitate to separate them from their "special moves", because in POT those moves are the real skills. In POT things like Rai and Tezuka Zone aren't magic, they're just techniques grounded in their reality that are done by the skill of the user.

What I wondered, and mentioned in a pm to Atobe is whether these POT guys are the be all and end all of tennis in the POT universe. Or if the pros in that world are even crazier. I like to think that these Japanese Jr. High students aren't the best in the whole world, but ....

About the special moves...

People tend to call this series...Unrealistic...it's not the right word, a better word is exaggerated it

Lets take...Laser beam, all it is is a really fast stroke..i can't count the amount of times of heard a commentator say "Federer hits a laser like forehand" since most pro's can hit Forehands over 100 MPH

Ryoma's twist serve is based off of the american twist, it just bounces as if he was John Isner...who is 6'9

All the snake shots? it's the just the buggy whip reverse forehand, Rafael Nadal generates ridiculous and i mean RIDICULOUS amounts of topspin

Zero shiki? just a dropshot with ridiculous backspin

Metal poll shot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xOmVGZJQ80&NR=1
0:34-0:37

Dunk Smash?

See Sampras, Petros

When we got towards the nationals however things got a little out of control

As for compared to real world players....

In the beginning their skills were fairly normal...Inui's SS serve was about 190 Km/h i think and thats average serve speed these days plus Inui's REALLY tall, take Chotaro's scud serve a 13-14 year old hitting serves at 200 km/h is impressive but being 13 he lacked the experience to control it (until the nationals of course)

It's implied Nanjiro bageled everyone he played, leading me to think that the Japanese players are a world of their own, look what they did to the foreigners of Nagoya

Only time will tell

KuwabaraTheMan
May 07, 2009, 11:07 AM
It's implied Nanjiro bageled everyone he played, leading me to think that the Japanese players are a world of their own, look what they did to the foreigners of Nagoya

Well, from what we've heard, Japanese players are nothing compared to most other countries. Inoue was talking about how Japanese Tennis hasn't been able to produce any high quality player since Nanjirou retired.

Based on what we know, the characters in the series are nothing compared to characters from other countries. Nagoya Seitoku's players wouldn't be good examples. Generally a top quality athlete wouldn't go to play in a country not known for high quality tennis.

And I think Nanjirou probably didn't bagel everyone. He never even made it to #1 in the world, even though he was close.

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 11:19 AM
Well, from what we've heard, Japanese players are nothing compared to most other countries. Inoue was talking about how Japanese Tennis hasn't been able to produce any high quality player since Nanjirou retired.

Based on what we know, the characters in the series are nothing compared to characters from other countries. Nagoya Seitoku's players wouldn't be good examples. Generally a top quality athlete wouldn't go to play in a country not known for high quality tennis.

And I think Nanjirou probably didn't bagel everyone. He never even made it to #1 in the world, even though he was close.

Of course Inoe said that...but things are different now..thats why every chapter is called "Golden Age" because they are in the Golden Age of japanese tennis


And Umm..Nanjiro beat the world number one when he just became a pro...and based on what the guy said pretty handily as well
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/43/

He didn't become number 1 because he didn't care not because he couldn't
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/47/


Annihilation? sounds like bagels and breadsticks to me
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/41/

If FETs timeline is to be believed then they are in the year 2008, Ryoma is still 12 but will turn 13 meaning he was born in 95, if this is correct and since real world players are acknowledged (both Inoe and Echizen reference McEnroe) then Najiroh was playing during Sampras' Era

KuwabaraTheMan
May 07, 2009, 11:44 AM
Of course Inoe said that...but things are different now..thats why every chapter is called "Golden Age" because they are in the Golden Age of japanese tennis


And Umm..Nanjiro beat the world number one when he just became a pro...and based on what the guy said pretty handily as well
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/43/

He didn't become number 1 because he didn't care not because he couldn't
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/47/


Annihilation? sounds like bagels and breadsticks to me
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/0/41/

If FETs timeline is to be believed then they are in the year 2008, Ryoma is still 12 but will turn 13 meaning he was born in 95, if this is correct and since real world players are acknowledged (both Inoe and Echizen reference McEnroe) then Najiroh was playing during Sampras' Era

The 'annihilation' was referring to Nanjirou winning tournaments that one month. That guy talking also said he underestimated Nanjirou when they played.

Yeah, Nanjirou was definitely the best player, but I doubt he was winning 6-0 and 6-1 every single match.

And we may be in a Golden Age of Japanese Tennis, but that doesn't mean they're the best. I would guess there are still a bunch of stronger countries. I mean, isn't that what this whole competition is about? It's also only been about 4 months since Inoue said that. Which means that the level of players like Tezka and Sanada, not to mention the high schoolers who seem way stronger than anything we've seen so far, wasn't enough in his mind.

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 12:11 PM
The 'annihilation' was referring to Nanjirou winning tournaments that one month. That guy talking also said he underestimated Nanjirou when they played.

Yeah, Nanjirou was definitely the best player, but I doubt he was winning 6-0 and 6-1 every single match.

And we may be in a Golden Age of Japanese Tennis, but that doesn't mean they're the best. I would guess there are still a bunch of stronger countries. I mean, isn't that what this whole competition is about? It's also only been about 4 months since Inoue said that. Which means that the level of players like Tezka and Sanada, not to mention the high schoolers who seem way stronger than anything we've seen so far, wasn't enough in his mind.

If Konomi does his research..the foreign teams will be comprised of Spanish, American and French players, god knows they litter the top 100

Fayte
May 07, 2009, 01:17 PM
What about Brazil, Australia and Sweden?

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 01:31 PM
What about Brazil, Australia and Sweden?

Yea...but most of the top players are French or Spanish, and i forgot Russian...how could I

France
Monfils,Tsonga,Simon,Gasquet in the top 50, then there's guys like Jeremy Chardy coming up

Spain
Nadal,Verdasco,Ferrer,Almagro,Robredo,Lopez

US
Roddick,Blake,Fish,Querrey

And this is just the top of my head

The only Brazilian player i know is bellucci, Sweden only has Robin Soderling in the top 100, and Hewitt is the only Australian in the top 100

KuwabaraTheMan
May 07, 2009, 03:46 PM
If Konomi does his research..the foreign teams will be comprised of Spanish, American and French players, god knows they litter the top 100

Yeah, I'm expecting those countries to be the top teams. If I had to guess, Spain will probably be the team that is considered the favorite. They've seemed to be the strongest lately in the tennis world.

Dansan1
May 07, 2009, 10:30 PM
Hewitt may be the only Australian now, but there was a time when Australia produced some of the best.

Atobe the king
May 07, 2009, 11:05 PM
Yea...there's this kid Bernard Tomic..he's not bad for a kid i think he beat a reasonably good player in the AO name Potito Starace, a top 100 player

As of now though Tomic is in the 300's...but hey he's only about 17, also look out for Grigor Dimitrov..he took a set off Nadal and is ranked slightly below Tomic

Fayte
May 07, 2009, 11:26 PM
Let's get back on topic, shall we?

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 12:08 AM
Let's get back on topic, shall we?

Discussing real tennis isn't really that off topic is it?

Technically you saying we should get back on topic w/o being a Mod is just adding another off-topic post...seeing as you also participated in the off-topic posting

But i agree we should get back on topic, but what is there to discuss? oni looks like Blanka, has a jackknife that breaks wrists, and friends have become enemies...

findingkaho
May 08, 2009, 06:18 AM
Junior kids gonna conquer the world

Fayte
May 08, 2009, 11:00 AM
Discussing real tennis isn't really that off topic is it?

Technically you saying we should get back on topic w/o being a Mod is just adding another off-topic post...seeing as you also participated in the off-topic posting

But i agree we should get back on topic, but what is there to discuss? oni looks like Blanka, has a jackknife that breaks wrists, and friends have become enemies...

Yes, discussing real tennis players is off topic. If you want to continue discussing, go to the irltennisplayersandwheretheylive.com/forums

Stop posting stupid philosophical arguments that don't make any sense and solve nothing, Atobe. No it is not off-topic to say "Let's get back on topic" from an already off topic discussion.

If nobody can think of something on topic to talk about, I'll start one.

Oni vs Akutsu

Who would win and why.

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 12:53 PM
Yes, discussing real tennis players is off topic. If you want to continue discussing, go to the irltennisplayersandwheretheylive.com/forums

Stop posting stupid philosophical arguments that don't make any sense and solve nothing, Atobe. No it is not off-topic to say "Let's get back on topic" from an already off topic discussion.

If nobody can think of something on topic to talk about, I'll start one.

Oni vs Akutsu

Who would win and why.

Your hypocrisy is no longer amusing, if your going to post some arrogant bullshit argument at least post it outright don't hide behind some fucking spoiler tag

I'm not attempting to be philosophical and even if i was the entire concept is so subjective that you can't call it stupid

Your little tennis player joke was stupid and uncalled for and not particularly funny in the slightest, just because you don't know a thing about the actual sport (lol Tezuka hit the net :eyeroll) doesn't mean it's some super off topic discussion it's not like were talking about Naruto or something, everyone said what they wanted about the chapter

And i noticed you took of Emperor of PoT information from your sig you must have realized how egotistical and asinine the whole thing is

You parade around here passing some ostentatious logic on everything acting like you know everything and that everything you post if fact


What about Brazil, Australia and Sweden?

This is your post, meaning that you contributed to the off topic posting and then you want to mini-mod? give me a break

You don't tell me what to post so don't try me, when a moderator tells me that it's gotten out of control i'll comply with the order, but you are no moderator, your so damn arrogant it's sickening

I wasn't trying to to get to this point with you but you parade around here like Konomi himself and quite frankly it's become more than a tad irksome

Fayte
May 08, 2009, 03:22 PM
And i noticed you took of Emperor of PoT information from your sig you must have realized how egotistical and asinine the whole thing is



You are thick, so I will comment on this. I took that out so you would stop crying about it, taking it like it was serious.

Who cares if I took part in the off topic discussion? Can nobody say "Let's talk about something else?" Give me a break kid.

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 03:32 PM
You are thick, so I will comment on this. I took that out so you would stop crying about it, taking it like it was serious.

Who cares if I took part in the off topic discussion? Can nobody say "Let's talk about something else?" Give me a break kid.

Who was whining? you parade around like your'e right all the time

"oh I was the one who said Zan was a dropshot"

"Oh Tezuka hit the net not the netcord"
that one in particular made me
http://equaltechnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/facepalm-300x240.jpg

"Konomi made Tezuka lose to show that he isn't the best"


So it's funny to me that you had that silly crap in your sig when you obviously aren't right most of the time

Your really biased, ignore speculation but then base "facts" on your own speculation (Akutsu is faster than Shukuchi) and it's a wonder you can make any of these assumptions when you've never probably held a racket

This is hypocrisy, you say lets get back on topic after participating in the off topic discussion, why didn't you post that in the first place

Kid? were only a year apart if your profile is honest and unlike you..i don't need the internet to raise my confidence, you may be older but you obviously never learned humility your posts ooze with arrogance using the term "kid" just proves my point, that just makes you condescending on top of everything else

KuwabaraTheMan
May 08, 2009, 04:39 PM
How about everyone calms down and we get back to discussing the manga.

Seriously, there's no need to cause so much drama over this.

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 04:48 PM
How about everyone calms down and we get back to discussing the manga.

Seriously, there's no need to cause so much drama over this.

Agreed

What do you think the scoreline will be for Tezuka VS Kaido?

Yukimura and Inui were both implying that Kaido as invincible because he can hit both a curve shot and a straight shot with the same motion

Neru
May 08, 2009, 04:58 PM
Agreed

What do you think the scoreline will be for Tezuka VS Kaido?

Yukimura and Inui were both implying that Kaido as invincible because he can hit both a curve shot and a straight shot with the same motion

Well, even if Kaidou tries to hit curve shot or a straight shot with the same motion, it'll all get sucked in by the Tezuka zone. Tezuka is simply a bad match up for Kaidou, who relies on creating angles to make people run around, as Tezuka never even need to move.

Well, that and the fact the Tezuka is compeletly on a different level. Wouldn't be supprised if the score was 6-0, although I can see Kaidou pick a few game before Tezuka gets serious.

KuwabaraTheMan
May 08, 2009, 05:22 PM
Agreed

What do you think the scoreline will be for Tezuka VS Kaido?

Yukimura and Inui were both implying that Kaido as invincible because he can hit both a curve shot and a straight shot with the same motion

I see Tezuka winning 6-2. Kaidoh has the potential to be invincible, but he needs to come along further.

But his ability to hit a curve shot and a straight shot with the same motion will help out, and I could see his shots that have such a huge amount of spin on them managing to partially counteract the Tezuka Zone/Phantom (such as just hitting the line or going partly toward Tezuka but forcing him to move to return it).

However, Tezuka is simply on another level in terms of overall ability. Given that Kaidoh uses spin a lot, Hyakuren could wreak havoc on some of his shots, since it doubles the spin.

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 05:22 PM
Well, even if Kaidou tries to hit curve shot or a straight shot with the same motion, it'll all get sucked in by the Tezuka zone. Tezuka is simply a bad match up for Kaidou, who relies on creating angles to make people run around, as Tezuka never even need to move.

Well, that and the fact the Tezuka is compeletly on a different level. Wouldn't be supprised if the score was 6-0, although I can see Kaidou pick a few game before Tezuka gets serious.

True, terrible match up, but Kaido is tenacious...then again that didn't make a difference against Marui and Jackal

I think Tezuka might screw around a bit..i was thinking 6-1,6-2

The matches im really excited about are Nio and Yagyu, Krausers match (he was brought back this has to mean something) Inui's match (the guys hasn't played singles in forever), Kirihara's match and Atobe VS Hiyoshi (captain VS successor)

The Sanada Yukimura match is a given


But his ability to hit a curve shot and a straight shot with the same motion will help out, and I could see his shots that have such a huge amount of spin on them managing to partially counteract the Tezuka Zone/Phantom (such as just hitting the line or going partly toward Tezuka but forcing him to move to return it).

However, Tezuka is simply on another level in terms of overall ability. Given that Kaidoh uses spin a lot, Hyakuren could wreak havoc on some of his shots, since it doubles the spin.

Would tezuka really need Hyakuren?

Interesting idea about the curve shots/straight shots and the phantom/zone, though Tezuka has dealt with spin pretty easily against Eishiro

I wonder if Tezuka will evolve the Hyakuren like Ryoma did

KuwabaraTheMan
May 08, 2009, 05:39 PM
Would tezuka really need Hyakuren?

Interesting idea about the curve shots/straight shots and the phantom/zone, though Tezuka has dealt with spin pretty easily against Eishiro

I wonder if Tezuka will evolve the Hyakuren like Ryoma did

It was just a thought on something that might work. I think he would definitely need the Hyakuren. Current Kaidoh is pretty good.

I think this match will be a great chance for Kaidoh to evolve. His singles opponents in the series (Kamio and Aoi) were mostly fairly one dimensional players (Kamio became more of a multi-dimensional player later, but he wasn't that deep a player when Kaidoh beat him). Playing against such a well rounded player will probably give Kaidoh opportunities to grow further as a Singles player.

Atobe the king
May 08, 2009, 05:43 PM
It was just a thought on something that might work. I think he would definitely need the Hyakuren. Current Kaidoh is pretty good.

I think this match will be a great chance for Kaidoh to evolve. His singles opponents in the series (Kamio and Aoi) were mostly fairly one dimensional players (Kamio became more of a multi-dimensional player later, but he wasn't that deep a player when Kaidoh beat him). Playing against such a well rounded player will probably give Kaidoh opportunities to grow further as a Singles player.

Yea...he Inui and Momo need more singles matches under the belt, they've been stuck in doubles because of Fuji and because Ryoma has no doubles coordination

And i want to see Kamio grow, i kind of liked his rythm gimmick and sonic bullet was one of my favorite shots pre-kanto

Sherlock Holmes
May 09, 2009, 10:53 AM
Is Tezuka really playing against Kaidoh? I just saw "Tezuka vs Kai" in the translation.
But if he really is Kaidoh, then...6-4. Because of the Devil Kaidoh mode.(Tezuka winning, by the way.)

Atobe the king
May 09, 2009, 11:48 AM
Is Tezuka really playing against Kaidoh? I just saw "Tezuka vs Kai" in the translation.
But if he really is Kaidoh, then...6-4. Because of the Devil Kaidoh mode.(Tezuka winning, by the way.)

I hope not, Inui calmed down Devil mode and i don't think Kaido wants to do it again

Bowser
May 09, 2009, 12:38 PM
Yeah it is Kaidoh, because of his japanese name before the translation.

He wouldn't turn into devil mode, especially against his captain. He will put up a fight, I say 6-3.

Fayte
May 10, 2009, 12:14 PM
Tezuka will win, no doubt. The chances of it being 6-0 is about 17% Taking into consideration this may be Kaidoh's last match in the series before he goes back to Seigaku to become the captain.

Dansan1
May 10, 2009, 01:39 PM
I'm curious-real quick (not to be an aggressor, I'm genuinely curious),

Where did you get that specific of a number? I mean, you'd figure someone might estimate 15 or 20 but 17 is very specific. So that leads me to believe you actually did math to come up with that number.

Care to share how you calculated 17% ?

Fayte
May 10, 2009, 06:11 PM
I'm curious-real quick (not to be an aggressor, I'm genuinely curious),

Where did you get that specific of a number? I mean, you'd figure someone might estimate 15 or 20 but 17 is very specific. So that leads me to believe you actually did math to come up with that number.

Care to share how you calculated 17% ?

It is my estimation based on certain details of the series as evidence. For example.


-Kaidoh becomes the new captain of Seigaku
-Tezuka's skill level being much higher
-Both are main characters
-Kaidoh's fanbase is much smaller than Tezuka's
-Konomi likes Tezuka more than Kaidoh
-Kaidoh's hidden demon form
-May be Kaidoh's last game of the series
-Saito may be bluffing to get the players to try hard
-If it were Kaidoh's last game of the series, Konomi would most likely make him get at least 1 game off of Tezuka
-If it were not Kaidoh's last game, Tezuka may win 6-0.
-Tezuka knows Seigaku players very well

etc.

All these thoughts, and more, are added into the equation. I only named a few, but I do have reasoning behind the percentage. It is simply the fact that there are much greater odds of Kaidoh having to improve in his last match of the series.

Bowser
May 11, 2009, 10:58 AM
I'm curious-real quick (not to be an aggressor, I'm genuinely curious),

Where did you get that specific of a number? I mean, you'd figure someone might estimate 15 or 20 but 17 is very specific. So that leads me to believe you actually did math to come up with that number.

Care to share how you calculated 17% ?

Because he is Yanagi/Inui lol.

DavenSodan
May 11, 2009, 12:44 PM
Seriously, why come up the a percentage anyway? imo if I look at the last matches from both of them then Tezuka should win this thing not matter what. Kaido would need to come up with something that can break the Zone and even if he does there is still Phantom, two doors and the zero gravity serve in his way. I've just got no idea how he can win a single service game without the author giving him some MAYJOR power up.

Up until now he has shown us the Snake, Short Snake, Boomerrang, Tornado Snake and Laser Snake. Did I forget something? And all of these shots with a spin on them should be get beaten by the Zone, shouldnt they? Maybe Kaidos Devil Mode could do something. But to trigger that Tezuka or someone else would have to make him very very angry and I dont see Tezuka doing something like that.

Furthermore I dont think that there is some sort of personal relationship between the two (like Oishi and Tezuka, thus their match before the nationals was shown in detail(?)) so I dont think that this match will be shown at all. Maybe one page.

Bowser
May 11, 2009, 01:36 PM
Up until now he has shown us the Snake, Short Snake, Boomerrang, Tornado Snake and Laser Snake. Did I forget something? And all of these shots with a spin on them should be get beaten by the Zone, shouldnt they? Maybe Kaidos Devil Mode could do something. But to trigger that Tezuka or someone else would have to make him very very angry and I dont see Tezuka doing something like that.



Also the ability to hit straight shots while in the form of hitting a curling shot, but apart from that I doubt Kaidoh will win anyway. Lets swap to a different match shall we?

DavenSodan
May 11, 2009, 02:11 PM
What about Kamio against Shinji? Will he win with his sonic Bullet or will his arm go numb by the Spot before hitting it? They are on the same team so they may know how to deal with each others techniques. The question could be if one or both of them has a hidden trump card.

From what I saw until now, I believe Kamio will win because Shinji cannot use the Spot if he cannot see the ball ;). We will see... oh and the percantage of Kamio wining is... naaah :eyeroll

Bowser
May 11, 2009, 02:45 PM
Please don't go down that route. I also believe Kamio will beat Shinji. He should be able to return the kick serve and use his Sonic Bullet to his advantage. Kabajii and Jirou seems to be an interesting debate too. Inui and Mizuki? Tachibana and Kadowaki seems really predictable...

DavenSodan
May 11, 2009, 03:35 PM
Yeah, Jirou should win, because Kabaji just doesnt has the body for that magic volley thing. But either way, we never actually saw one of them win, didnt we? Not matter who wins, the other one will continue to have a bad streak (or how do I say it?).

Oh, and the percantage thing was a joke, hope you didnt misunderstand me ;).

Atobe the king
May 11, 2009, 04:17 PM
Yeah, Jirou should win, because Kabaji just doesnt has the body for that magic volley thing. But either way, we never actually saw one of them win, didnt we? Not matter who wins, the other one will continue to have a bad streak (or how do I say it?).

Oh, and the percantage thing was a joke, hope you didnt misunderstand me ;).

Thats what i was saying in another topic (or was it this one) he can copy abilities but not a persons physical traits

I hate using the anime as an example but...remember the training matches with Hyotie before they played Rikkai and Kabaji couldn't beat Eiji because his body wasn't designed for acrobatic play

Bowser
May 12, 2009, 10:20 AM
Fair point there mate.

Anyhow, 1 month seems like ages but I cant wait until the next chapters come! Does anyone here think the mental coach really will kick the losers out?

Fayte
May 12, 2009, 10:43 AM
I do.

I think Konomi has come to the point of saying "There are too many middle school kids I have to expand on, so I need to take out all the minor characters somehow."

I don't see Konomi keeping Richard and Kadowaki in the series. They were horrible from the beginning. Also, I think this may be the time Kaidoh and Momo go home to lead Seigaku.

Although, it may not happen yet, since Momo still needs revenge somehow on Oni. Unless Akutsu does it for him.

Bowser
May 12, 2009, 01:49 PM
What about those two high schooler guys, Kanata (one with glasses?) and Kazuya? They'll probably be back, maybe in those shuffle matches?

I think Momo will have revenge somehow but if that does happen, either: A) he actually wins against his partner (Echizen?) and he stays, or B) Losers don't actually get kicked out. Or maybe its a test of the players abilities and the coach will weed out the useless ones?

Atobe the king
May 12, 2009, 02:42 PM
What about those two high schooler guys, Kanata (one with glasses?) and Kazuya? They'll probably be back, maybe in those shuffle matches?

I think Momo will have revenge somehow but if that does happen, either: A) he actually wins against his partner (Echizen?) and he stays, or B) Losers don't actually get kicked out. Or maybe its a test of the players abilities and the coach will weed out the useless ones?

I seriously doubt Momo could beat that monster of a child

I agree with B, some of the characters who would lose (if the color spread theory is correct) are popular (nio)/had only one match last series (Yukibuu)

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 18, 2009, 12:45 AM
Does anyone know who Sengoku, Ryoma, Kabaji and Rin are playing? There are 50 so there should be an even set of matches. Although it occurs to me that we have only seen 47 of the invited Middle Schoolers so I guess we have to wait and see...

Fayte
May 18, 2009, 11:23 AM
Kabaji is playing Jiro, and Echizen is most likely playing Momoshiro.

Sengoku and Rin we do not know.

rakkynon
May 18, 2009, 03:30 PM
Firstly i must say, this' pretty awesome series i read/watched for some months.

For pairing Fayte, i dont think that Echizen is playing Momo, because they didnt show the name Echizen paired with. (since if it was Momo, it would be a shock like Eiji-Oishi one)

But mostly, i wonder about Kaidoh and Inui...

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 18, 2009, 07:04 PM
But mostly, i wonder about Kaidoh and Inui...


You mean you wonder who they are playing? Because Inui is playing Mizuki and Kaidoh is playing Tezuka.

Fayte
May 18, 2009, 09:57 PM
Firstly i must say, this' pretty awesome series i read/watched for some months.

For pairing Fayte, i dont think that Echizen is playing Momo, because they didnt show the name Echizen paired with. (since if it was Momo, it would be a shock like Eiji-Oishi one)

But mostly, i wonder about Kaidoh and Inui...

We already know for a fact that Kaidoh is playing Tezuka, and Inui is playing Mizuki. The Kanji was translated already. The scanlator who did the one you read was probably just bad.

rakkynon
May 19, 2009, 08:39 AM
Hmm...probably yeah. :D My bad. But this makes it bad too...Kaidoh will probably leave if this "win or leave" game isnt some kind of bad joke. :\

@Fayte

The one in your sig is Sanada, right?

Atobe the king
May 19, 2009, 09:06 AM
Hmm...probably yeah. :D My bad. But this makes it bad too...Kaidoh will probably leave if this "win or leave" game isnt some kind of bad joke. :\

Wouldn't bother me...don't like Kaido too much..and how everyone hypes him up


@Fayte

The one in your sig is Sanada, right?

Lol..you have to ask? Sanada should be as recognizable as Tezuka or Atobe

mayoi
May 21, 2009, 11:08 AM
What will happen to momo??

Fayte
May 21, 2009, 11:30 AM
He's done for.

Sherlock Holmes
May 21, 2009, 03:25 PM
Momoshiro has plot hax. You don't just introduce a rival to a character, and then get rid of that character. Somehow, he'll go back to the team.

Or maybe Ryoma is going to lose, go back to America, and be part of the American team.
...wow that would suck.

Fayte
May 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
Momoshiro has plot hax. You don't just introduce a rival to a character, and then get rid of that character. Somehow, he'll go back to the team.

Or maybe Ryoma is going to lose, go back to America, and be part of the American team.
...wow that would suck.

Imagine Ryoma goes to the American team, and plays against the Japan team? Like Kevin from the fillers is actually Ryoma. lol

Atobe the king
May 21, 2009, 05:01 PM
that would be funny..Ryoma wearing a team japan uniform only to lose it

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 21, 2009, 10:26 PM
If Yukimura is the strongest in the series (besides Ryoma in PoP) why would Konomi put him against Sanada? Sanada will obviously lose but he is a popular character so why get rid of him so early in the sequel?

Atobe the king
May 21, 2009, 11:16 PM
If Yukimura is the strongest in the series (besides Ryoma in PoP) why would Konomi put him against Sanada? Sanada will obviously lose but he is a popular character so why get rid of him so early in the sequel?

This part is up in the air..perhaps Yuki throws the match so he can be an observer? or Sanada is good enough to beat him but given the time line i doubt he could have improved to such and extent

Fayte
May 22, 2009, 09:45 AM
Sanada will obviously lose? Listen, if Sanada almost killed a man and his mother to beat Tezuka (WHO BEAT SANADA ONLY 1 TIME)

How much more would Sanada train to beat someone like Yukimura, if he has lost at any time in the past, against him.

Knowing Sanada's character, I would think he has already surpassed Yukimura in Konomi's mind.

Atobe the king
May 22, 2009, 07:29 PM
Sanada will obviously lose? Listen, if Sanada almost killed a man and his mother to beat Tezuka (WHO BEAT SANADA ONLY 1 TIME)


Tezuka beat him twice
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/



Knowing Sanada's character, I would think he has already surpassed Yukimura in Konomi's mind.

I have know idea what your basing it on, but in an interview when asked who was the best in the Series, Konomi said Yukimura, Yukimura says he is probably the only one who could beat the new Sanada

Fayte
May 22, 2009, 09:41 PM
Tezuka beat him twice
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/04/



I have know idea what your basing it on, but in an interview when asked who was the best in the Series, Konomi said Yukimura, Yukimura says he is probably the only one who could beat the new Sanada

Yukimura is not the best. Echizen is. And, I am basing it on the mindset of a mangaka. If Yukimura was supposed to surpass Sanada in character development, he would have been in the series from the beginning. Sanada was, Yukimura was not. Konomi knows that Yukimura is too underdeveloped. I mean the only match we see of him was against Echizen, and he lost.

I like Yukimura, but the odds of him remaining in the series is very slim. If a poll was done, the fanbase would choose Sanada over Yukimura by far. Sanada is developed, and we know next to nothing about Yukimura.

Atobe the king
May 22, 2009, 10:52 PM
Sanada only had two matches thats not a whole lot of development. Of course Echizen is the best, but when asked Konomi says that it is Yukimura, that means more than some speculation. As for Yukimura's presence...it's been there since the beginning, just as Rikkai was mentioned early in the series, he's the final boss after all.

And how do you know the mindset of a mangaka? I'd like to think i would understand that, seeing as i've been drawing my own manga for 6 years. if im in Konomis position im giving the underdeveloped Yaoi bait all the attention, male fans will like to see a character that was shafted get some screen(page)time and female Yaoi fans get their bishie...everyone wins

Last Popularity poll (which was before the finals) Sanada was 21, Yukimura was 23, w/o even having played

I don't see how his odds are so slim..out of the many possible characters 50 were chosen and Yukimura was one of them

Bowser
May 23, 2009, 02:08 PM
But Atobe, you must understand you're not Konomi. Whether Sanada will beat yukimura or not, we will wait for the next chapters, but I dont think all losers will leave - Momo has plot hax, so all our theories are nothing until proven,.

Atobe the king
May 23, 2009, 02:40 PM
But Atobe, you must understand you're not Konomi. Whether Sanada will beat yukimura or not, we will wait for the next chapters, but I dont think all losers will leave - Momo has plot hax, so all our theories are nothing until proven,.

But that was the point i was making, remember i said IF i were Konomi, a lot of the problems with manga fanbase is that they tend to get angry when the story isn't going in the direction they'd like (no one here specifically but i've seen it a lot..particularly Bleach)


if im in Konomis position

I don't think they'll leave either...for example Inui is #5 in popularity..so why get rid of him for Mizuki? maybe the teams change for each match?

Sherlock Holmes
May 24, 2009, 12:07 AM
that would be funny..Ryoma wearing a team japan uniform only to lose it

And then America would win the tournament, because Ryoma would be part of it.

...Or maybe Ryoma is going to be the ANTAGONIST instead of the main character.

And the story is told from team japap's point of view, while they chase after the Marty Stu from hell.

...Is it wrong I actually want that to happen a little?

DavenSodan
May 25, 2009, 10:33 AM
I just wonder how exectly Sanada could beat Yuki... I mean, Yuki has returned about every special shot, just becaus he says that they arent special and every ball can be returned.

And all of Sanadas specials are based on elements, so if that does not change, how will he manage to get Yuki to not return his shots? Im pretty exited about what Konomi will do, but right now, I just have no idea how Yuki can be beaten without PoP.

Fayte
May 25, 2009, 10:00 PM
Sanada can return any special shot too. It isn't a unique attribute.

DavenSodan
May 26, 2009, 02:08 AM
What about the Dunk Smash and the Zero-Shiki Ryoma used during the Kantou finals? Or the copied Wind shot? Or the Cool Drive?

Anyway, its not that Yuki has any special move at all. He doesnt need it imo. Thats why I cant imagine him losing to Sanada. But we will see what Konomi has think of.

Atobe the king
May 26, 2009, 06:54 AM
What about the Dunk Smash and the Zero-Shiki Ryoma used during the Kantou finals? Or the copied Wind shot? Or the Cool Drive?

Anyway, its not that Yuki has any special move at all. He doesnt need it imo. Thats why I cant imagine him losing to Sanada. But we will see what Konomi has think of.

I say its because he's an exaggerated Federer...the perfect hair the head band, lack of emotion on court and an intimidating aura, backhand love for tennis...and all those ridiculous shots are returned in a more ridiculous manner

Anyway he made Yuki out to be a juggernaut, even against PoP he ended up being able to keep up with the speed, in all honesty, barring any plothax, the only way i see Yuki losing is by throwing the match

Fayte
May 26, 2009, 02:26 PM
What about the Dunk Smash and the Zero-Shiki Ryoma used during the Kantou finals? Or the copied Wind shot? Or the Cool Drive?



Yukimura is a TRYhard in every match. Sanada isn't.

If Sanada was seriously playing to simply "win" against Echizen, I believe plothax aside, he would have. He screws around too much, as everyone knows. We know this about Sanada's character, despite how serious his personality is.

However, I believe we would see a much different Sanada, if he plays against someone like Yukimura.

Sanada had nothing to prove against Echizen. Everyone already knew who he was and what he stood for. So he could have a little fun against Echizen. However, against Yukimura, I believe Sanada would play all out from the beginning.

Why?

-Yukimura is already (status-wise) above Sanada in the team. -Sanada knows Yukimura better than anyone.
-Sanada respects Yukimura

It is these things that lead me to believe that Sanada has not only the best chance against Yukimura, but a very high chance of beating him. The odds are raised in Sanada's favor, if Sanada has lost against Yukimura in the past.

Atobe the king
May 26, 2009, 02:44 PM
Yukimura is a TRYhard in every match. Sanada isn't.

He's played one match..in which he was looked like he was in Auto pilot for 4 straight games, i don't even think Konomi drew a sweat drop on him i don't see any trying in everything, he was nonchalant about the whole thing. More importantly he was out on the court after being away from the sport for extended periods of time. His cheeky comments indicate that he's a cut above pretty much everything.


If Sanada was seriously playing to simply "win" against Echizen, I believe plothax aside, he would have. He screws around too much, as everyone knows. We know this about Sanada's character, despite how serious his personality is.

He got outplayed simple as that, even when he used his trump card he was outplayed. He was well aware of how dangerous echizen was and stopped screwing around after he lost the first game


Sanada had nothing to prove against Echizen. Everyone already knew who he was and what he stood for. So he could have a little fun against Echizen. However, against Yukimura, I believe Sanada would play all out from the beginning.

Their team was robbed of their straight sets victory, what he had to prove was that w/o Yukimura Rikkai is still a dominant force and that this little Rookie is nothing, hence Renji's surprise at him using FuuRinKaZan



-Yukimura is already (status-wise) above Sanada in the team. -Sanada knows Yukimura better than anyone.
-Sanada respects Yukimura

Until they play and Sanada wins he's above him in more than just status wise


It is these things that lead me to believe that Sanada has not only the best chance against Yukimura, but a very high chance of beating him. The odds are raised in Sanada's favor, if Sanada has lost against Yukimura in the past.

He has a chance to beat him, but not for these reasons. As of now, canonically, there is nothing indicating that Sanada or anyone not named Echizen Ryoma can best Yukimura. And yes Yuki has beaten him, he was the champion of that Jr tournament while Sanada was the runner up.

http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/353/05/

DavenSodan
May 26, 2009, 03:26 PM
The very only thing that Im asking me is just HOW can Sanada win. What technique would he have to create to win against Yuki. Rai, his strongest element (or so I belive) is not enough, because Yuki said that only he can beat Sanada right now dring Sanadas match against Tezuka.

So it would be fun to discuss what kind of element Sanada will have to come up with in order to win.... obviously he needs one to be not be affected by Yukis yips attack. Maybe Metal, like "impenetrable like metal" which puts up a shield against influences from outside...

But just how is he going to make Yuki lose his "I simply return every ball"-thing....? Thats the real question imo.

Sherlock Holmes
May 26, 2009, 03:58 PM
I know what element Sanada is missing.
HEART!
If he can have a HEART based movement, he will be able to use the Captain Planet shot!

Atobe the king
May 26, 2009, 07:20 PM
I know what element Sanada is missing.
HEART!
If he can have a HEART based movement, he will be able to use the Captain Planet shot!

Lulz...he needs heart..you're the forums source of comic relief aren't you? now that i think about it lol

Yuki's Yips attack reminds me a little of Nadal...i've read interviews of players getting discouraged because shots that should be winners are coming right back to you when you play Nadal

The thing about him is not returning all those shots, but trashing them, ultimately saying that the majority of the players in this series are using horrible gimmicks that will get them no where..i mean look at how he just blocked back the big bang serve with a flick of the wrist and a Fed-like Backhand
http://www.onemanga.com/Prince_of_Tennis/372/07/
The same serve Atobe had to return two handed and that owned Ryoma (to an extent), most characters take chapters and chapters to learn how to return certain moves and some never do (as far as i know Ryoma never returned Tannhauser serve) Yuki returned moves he's never seen (how could he have seen the round table shot or all out mountain storm) right then and their figuring out the gimmick before he even hit the stroke

He is the only REAL tennis player in this series, it was fun to see all those so called amazing shots just be effortlessly put down and returned.....if he does lose to Sanada it needs to be an epic 10 chapter showdown and it better be in 200+ point tiebreaker, barring MnK Yukimura is the best character in the series

Dansan1
May 26, 2009, 08:53 PM
The short answer to how Sanada could beat Yukimura is...

we don't know.


If the losers are leaving than I'm pretty sure Sanada will win. For the plain reason Fayte mentioned elsewhere; Sanada is a focal character in the manga and Yukimura was just a boss. As for how, well Konomi will make something up.

As for what the manga has stated so far Yukimura is just a level above. As many have mentioned He treated all other tennis from the series as nothing. His tennis was depicted as even miles above this world's "big three" (Atobe, Sanada, Tezuka.)

I really was looking forward to Yukimura but was disappointed in the way the match went. It was just Yuki beating down Echizen and then Echizen running away with it with POP. There was no drama, no back and forth, none of the other things that made some of the other matches of the series really intense. It was simply Echizen had no chance and then with POP Yukimura had no chance. There were no real rallies or battles. One of the two was simply outright winning the point.

Atobe the king
May 26, 2009, 10:20 PM
Actually Echizen had a chance...it's just that Yuki wasn't an opponent who was going to let him win using techniques he didn't master (besting Kirihara w/o knowing what muga even was)

The problem i have with the series is that the matches are one set, if Yuki and Ryoma played a 2 setter it would have been amazing

I wouldn't really say Yuki isn't a focal character, he parallels Tezuka, and as i said he was foreshadowed very early in the series, he's more than just a final boss because the series has continued.

I never really realized how awesome Yukimura truly was until recently, i really don't want him to go out now...in this case i'd rather Sanada go out than Yukimura.

Dansan1
May 26, 2009, 10:36 PM
He was foreshadowed, but as a final boss. The greatest player. The scariest dude. Foreshadowing doesn't equal being a main person we should care about outside of what he means to the main character's journey.

And I was only referring to Yuki as he appeared in POT 1. He was not a focal character at all. He was a focal boss for Echizen. As I've said before, now anything can happen. He now has the chance to become a character.

I do agree that Yuki is awesome. Besides loving his design, I've noticed Konomi put lots of little things that let you see just how high above he is. Like in the last chapter how both Renjii and Sanada thought that it was bad luck that Momo played Onii, but Yuki saw through that right away.


Another logic hole I have is that Yuki's ability to take away the senses is purely because of his ability to return balls right? He's not doing something psychologically or physically besides just returning everything no matter how good right?

So how come Echizen and Kin-chan didn't have that happen to each other? They played for over 40 minutes with every single one of their balls returned....

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 26, 2009, 10:45 PM
In Sanada's match against Echizen, he did not use Rai and Kage. Did he have them then and decided not to use them? Or did he develop them later. If so, my friend should be pleased. His favorite character is Sanada because he has never truly been defecated in the series in the present timeline. (if he was not going all out against Ryoma he says the loss does not count)

Dansan1
May 26, 2009, 10:49 PM
The loss does count.

Remember that though this is tennis, it is a martial arts archetype.

Sanada had those techinques then but he didn't use them, not because he wasn't taking the match seriously, but for the sake of beating Tezuka he had to keep them secret.

Echizen outplayed Sanada.

You can say he was either dumb or smart depending on what you personally think is the better goal; winning Kantou or beating Tezuka.

Or if you exist outside the manga you can say he was smart cause even if he used Rai and Kage Echizen would have won since in POT1 at least, he CAN'T lose.... :)

Sherlock Holmes
May 26, 2009, 10:54 PM
In Sanada's match against Echizen, he did not use Rai and Kage. Did he have them then and decided not to use them? Or did he develop them later. If so, my friend should be pleased. His favorite character is Sanada because he has never truly been defecated in the series in the present timeline. (if he was not going all out against Ryoma he says the loss does not count)

....He has never truly been defecated. Which means he is not crap. Ohhh I see what you did there!

...Yes, I think I am this forum's source of comic relief LOL

Atobe the king
May 27, 2009, 12:27 AM
The loss does count.

Remember that though this is tennis, it is a martial arts archetype.

Sanada had those techinques then but he didn't use them, not because he wasn't taking the match seriously, but for the sake of beating Tezuka he had to keep them secret.

Echizen outplayed Sanada.

You can say he was either dumb or smart depending on what you personally think is the better goal; winning Kantou or beating Tezuka.

Or if you exist outside the manga you can say he was smart cause even if he used Rai and Kage Echizen would have won since in POT1 at least, he CAN'T lose.... :)


According to Inui his play style is using certain FuuRinKaZan techs to crush an opponents play

He only used Fuu and Ka on ryoma, Ka to outpower the little guy and Fuu to have him running all over..unfortunately the little guy is a genius and realized that the techniques can be used against one another.

Renji says that he backed Genichiro into a corner..and he used Rin..which nullifies spin and renji's specials (utsusemi and kamaitachi) are all about spin

Kirihara who is agressive gets blasted off by Ka because Sanada simply overpowers him

The fact that he needed all six is a testament to Tezuka's skill



Another logic hole I have is that Yuki's ability to take away the senses is purely because of his ability to return balls right? He's not doing something psychologically or physically besides just returning everything no matter how good right?

So how come Echizen and Kin-chan didn't have that happen to each other? They played for over 40 minutes with every single one of their balls returned....

Neither of them posses Feder-I mean Yukimura's presence on court, it's even more overwhelming than Sanada VS Tezuka by the looks of it, their Ralley was one point, Yukimura will do this to for the whole game, and the Ryoma that played Yuki has a lot more techniques in his MnK repertoire


In Sanada's match against Echizen, he did not use Rai and Kage. Did he have them then and decided not to use them? Or did he develop them later. If so, my friend should be pleased. His favorite character is Sanada because he has never truly been defecated in the series in the present timeline. (if he was not going all out against Ryoma he says the loss does not count)

Your friend seems to be a bit of a fanboy not truly defeated? bs this sounds like the crap Nadaltards were spouting when Fed straight setted him in Madrid a few weeks ago. A loss is a loss is a loss is a loss, if he wasn't going all out? then thats not his fault...he has been defeated, 7-5 is a lost, plus Tezuka breadsticked and bageled his ass when they were kids

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 27, 2009, 08:38 AM
Your friend seems to be a bit of a fanboy not truly defeated? bs this sounds like the crap Nadaltards were spouting when Fed straight setted him in Madrid a few weeks ago. A loss is a loss is a loss is a loss, if he wasn't going all out? then thats not his fault...he has been defeated, 7-5 is a lost, plus Tezuka breadsticked and bageled his ass when they were kids


I know Tezuka crushed him, but that's why I said in the present timeline. And yeah, he is kinda like that but in his defense, he knows very little about PoT. He only got curious about it a little while ago and when he heard the nickname "Emperor" he flipped out and wanted to know about him. Currently he only knows what I have told him about Sanada and the rest. Which is why I came to you guys: didn't want to give false info...

Atobe the king
May 27, 2009, 08:45 AM
I know Tezuka crushed him, but that's why I said in the present timeline. And yeah, he is kinda like that but in his defense, he knows very little about PoT. He only got curious about it a little while ago and when he heard the nickname "Emperor" he flipped out and wanted to know about him. Currently he only knows what I have told him about Sanada and the rest. Which is why I came to you guys: didn't want to give false info...

I see...okay...well if he's a new fan this is good place to start (didn't mean to come off as harsh it was around 2 am when i posted so i was a tad cranky), this has a small bio, but more importantly his W/L record
http://fet.fudomine.org/index.php?sanada

Fayte
May 27, 2009, 09:51 AM
Sanada's loss against Tezuka when they were first years really doesn't mean anything. Tezuka got raped in the present (only year that matters) year. Did I just say that? yes. TEZUKA GOT RAPED. So hard, that Tezuka could only get 4 points (The zero-shiki serves) on Sanada. The rest was all Sanada being an idiot and hitting them out. After Sanada stopped, he went back to dominating him.

The last point also didn't mean anything, because if the ball landed on Tezuka's side, it would be 6-5 in games, 40-15 in score. And if Sanada had enough strength to walk over to Tezuka to shake his hand, he certainly had enough strength to finish the match.

If you just look at the facts, Tezuka was overwhelmed.

DavenSodan
May 27, 2009, 10:05 AM
Err... Tezuka was also stupid for not using his Zero-Shiki-serve from the beginning... we dont know how often he could have hit it without using Phantom and also we dont know if Sanadas combination element shot was already created before the match or not.

But assuming Sanada did develop it during the match Tezuka would at least have won 3 service games imo. And with a 3-6 the loser would have been overwhelmed.

Even if Sanada did have the idea of an combination in mind before the match he would not have used it because of his pride...

Dansan1
May 27, 2009, 10:50 AM
His combo was not a calculated move that he had, it was a spur of the moment thing, demonstrating his mental toughness and technique. It was also not Sanada, but Yukimura who saw through Tezuka using the serve and warned Sanada.

Also we don't really know how the last games went point wise. We just know Sanada got to match point. They could have been going back and forth to deuce. In fact that is likely considering how freaked out Sanada was about the ball coming back to him, if he had 3 match points who cares?

It's fanboyism to say that Sanada raped Tezuka. Sanada using only Rai was his fault. Remember that HE THOUGHT he was going to win that way. It took Yukimura to get him to snap out of his stupidity to see he had no chance with Rai.

Remember that Sanada needed to keep those moves secret because Tezuka is the level of player that would have beaten them otherwise.

If they played again I'd vote Tezuka no question (not because simply for the dramatic reason that Konomi would pretty much have to have Tezuka win, I'm talking purely within the manga universe)

Also don't forget what Sanada said after the match. Why say that if you can rape the opponent. That would be a pathetic thing to say if he was that far above Tezuka.

And Sanada walking over was a outside the match, walking is different than playing.. Konomi made it clear with many other things that if that ball had gone over Sanada was done for.

This is perfect cause a real life game I played yesterday applies (I just like to brag about wins....) I killed this guy in a 3 setter (5-7, 6-4, 6-3) who plays a completely defensive game. He couldn't hit a winner on me ever, but most of my freaking winners come right back to me. Too bad he has to run like mad. In the last set he went up 3-0 but I won the last six games because I was running him too much. He couldn't even move for the last two games. I mean really couldn't even get to a single ball he was so tired. But he could still walk back to the car to leave.


And yes Tezuka was stupid, Sanada was stupid. But this is because it's a manga. Konomi had to have certain limits to them or they become broken because of the moves he's given him. For his scenario's sake he needed Sanada to go up 4-0 and at the same time not return the Zero-shiki serve...how do you do that? Don't have Tezuka use the serve.

Fayte
May 27, 2009, 10:51 AM
Err... Tezuka was also stupid for not using his Zero-Shiki-serve from the beginning... we dont know how often he could have hit it without using Phantom and also we dont know if Sanadas combination element shot was already created before the match or not.

But assuming Sanada did develop it during the match Tezuka would at least have won 3 service games imo. And with a 3-6 the loser would have been overwhelmed.

Even if Sanada did have the idea of an combination in mind before the match he would not have used it because of his pride...

You are going entirely on what-ifs, though. What if Sanada played smart? He would have won 6-0. I'm going by what actually happened, right now.

Dansan1
May 27, 2009, 11:04 AM
How 6-0?

He only returned Zero-shiki on a fluke when the match was riding on him getting the point. It was a desperation move.

Great players always pull something special on match point (sampras, federer, nadal)

Even if you assume he could do it multiple times, at what point would he have developed that?

You're not going on what happened, you're going on what you think should have happened because you like Sanada. Also entirely on what-ifs.

What if Tezuka got wind of Rai and In? What if Yukimura wasn't there? What if? We can't do that. We can't say what would have happened.

What happened is that Sanada could not return Zero-shiki till match point with a desperation move.

Also remember that Tezuka was purposely drawing out the match for Echizen.

I see them going back and forth tightly in those last 3 games.

That certainly doesn't equal 6-0

Konomi MADE IT CLEAR that he wanted a Sanada who barely beat Tezuka, in an incredible close fight. (whether we agree he did that competently is a totally different story)

Fayte
May 27, 2009, 11:42 AM
KaRinRai was certainly not a fluke. If you think that, I'm sorry. It was very clear that it was an actual technique, scratching the ground and all.

Atobe the king
May 27, 2009, 12:25 PM
Ughh...i don't have the patience to respond to some of this fanboyishness....

But, 7-5 is as close as you can get bar a breaker, that is no raping

Sanada's win according to an interview was just on a whim (it is said that Someone needed to lose and it was between Fuji and Tezuka)


Sanada's loss against Tezuka when they were first years really doesn't mean anything. Tezuka got raped in the present (only year that matters) year. Did I just say that? yes. TEZUKA GOT RAPED. So hard, that Tezuka could only get 4 points (The zero-shiki serves) on Sanada. The rest was all Sanada being an idiot and hitting them out. After Sanada stopped, he went back to dominating him.

Of course it means something, if it was the reverse you'd think it was important, so Tezuka hits four winners and if the calculation is correct Sanada hit a bunch of Unforced errors, doesn't sound like rape to me


The last point also didn't mean anything, because if the ball landed on Tezuka's side, it would be 6-5 in games, 40-15 in score. And if Sanada had enough strength to walk over to Tezuka to shake his hand, he certainly had enough strength to finish the match.

This is just stupid, walking to an opponent is hardly the same as Running around during a ralley

Fayte
May 27, 2009, 02:46 PM
This is just stupid, walking to an opponent is hardly the same as Running around during a ralley


Why would you even say this?

Tezuka's arm was hurt no less than Sanada's legs. If Sanada were to go out, Tezuka would as well. It would have been a tie. Tezuka winning, was impossible. If Fuji had to win, which he did have to, Tezuka had to lose. Nothing would have changed.

DeidaraGrimmjow
May 27, 2009, 03:29 PM
Question: Tachibana lost to Kirihara (badly). So does that make Kirihara a national level player?


In fact, who are the national level players? I know that Tezuka, Tachibana, Atobe, Sanada, and Yukimura (everyone on Rikkai Dai in fact) are. But would Ryoma, Fuji, Chitose, and Shiraishi? Their skill is equal to national level players but I don't remember that label being put on any of them...

Atobe the king
May 27, 2009, 05:04 PM
Question: Tachibana lost to Kirihara (badly). So does that make Kirihara a national level player?


In fact, who are the national level players? I know that Tezuka, Tachibana, Atobe, Sanada, and Yukimura (everyone on Rikkai Dai in fact) are. But would Ryoma, Fuji, Chitose, and Shiraishi? Their skill is equal to national level players but I don't remember that label being put on any of them...

those Labeled National level players were :

Tachibana, Sengoku,Atobe, Sanada,Renji,Tezuka, the Golden Pair,The Jimmis, and Chitose as far as i can remember

The term national level seemed to imply tha they had particiated in the nationals the previous year (sanada/yuki/renji won it, Atobe participated it, so did the golden pair, jimmis etc) Since all the people you mentioned were in the nationals and all of them were on the teams that made the semis then they are national level players. Including Kirihara

Dansan1
May 27, 2009, 07:19 PM
Yep it just refers to those who competed at the national level.

And Konomi did make it pretty obvious that Tezuka was not going to go out with Sanada.

In the span of a few pages he had Tezuka picking up his racket ready to continue and Sanada on his knees begging the ball to go over the net and stating that it would amount to a loss if it didn't.

You kinda have to go with what Sanada(Konomi) said....

Although enough of that.

What about players who didn't win any national matches? Their team got there, but they didn't hack it. Do they get to be called national level players? Dun dun dunnn.....

Atobe the king
May 27, 2009, 07:31 PM
What about players who didn't win any national matches? Their team got there, but they didn't hack it. Do they get to be called national level players? Dun dun dunnn.....

Yes i think you can, they in some way shape or form contributed to their team making it that far...lets take Momo, his Nationals w/l record is 1-1, one being a loss to Yuushi and another being a win with Kaido, just because he lost his only singles match doesn't mean we can't consider him a national level player

I forgot to adress this


But assuming Sanada did develop it during the match Tezuka would at least have won 3 service games imo. And with a 3-6 the loser would have been overwhelmed.

Not really, 6-3 usually means that there is one break of serve, usually you broke them in the second game making the game flow 1-0,2-0,3-0,3-1,4-1,4-2,5-2,5-3 and finally 6-3, but then again you only REALLY need one break

KuwabaraTheMan
May 28, 2009, 12:45 AM
Yes i think you can, they in some way shape or form contributed to their team making it that far...lets take Momo, his Nationals w/l record is 1-1, one being a loss to Yuushi and another being a win with Kaido, just because he lost his only singles match doesn't mean we can't consider him a national level player

I believe it refers to players who won at the Nationals. During the series, the only Seigaku regulars who were referred to as 'National level' were Tezuka and the Golden Pair, and I think it was mentioned at one point that they were the only ones who won their match in the Nationals. Momo would be considered a National level player because he won in the Nationals, even though he didn't win a Singles match.

Bowser
May 28, 2009, 07:44 AM
Remember what Shiraishi said about Fuji about him being Kantou level still? Just because you participate doesn't mean you are. But the Seigaku regulars are National level, most of Yamabuki, all of Hyoutei, all of Rikkai, most of Fudomine, all of SHitenhoujii etc....

Fayte
May 28, 2009, 09:02 AM
Remember what Shiraishi said about Fuji about him being Kantou level still? Just because you participate doesn't mean you are. But the Seigaku regulars are National level, most of Yamabuki, all of Hyoutei, all of Rikkai, most of Fudomine, all of SHitenhoujii etc....

Shiraishi's comment was just an insult to Fuji's ability of play. That doesn't mean Fuji isn't nationally ranked.

Dansan1
May 28, 2009, 09:15 AM
Yeah that was just smack talk. It was also in reference to Fuji being called a genius, if I remember the gist it was "you may be considered a genius at Kantou, but not here!"

Although if I am not mistaken I don't think it was Shiraishi, but one of his teammates from the sidelines. Kenya?

DavenSodan
May 28, 2009, 09:46 AM
And how do we know if that was an insulting comment or a subjective point of view...

And if I win a set 6 to 3 with one break I didnt overwhelmed my opponent... that would be 6-1 or 6-0. I just clearly won.

Atobe the king
May 28, 2009, 10:27 AM
And how do we know if that was an insulting comment or a subjective point of view...

And if I win a set 6 to 3 with one break I didnt overwhelmed my opponent... that would be 6-1 or 6-0. I just clearly won.

Yea, i believe Kenya said it, but Fuji was playing like a bitch so the comment was deserved.

Fayte
June 01, 2009, 11:44 AM
Yeah, Fuji was getting worked with insults.


http://image.onemanga.com/001/mangas/00000009/00000316/08.jpg
http://image.onemanga.com/001/mangas/00000009/00000316/11.jpg

Atobe the king
June 02, 2009, 09:35 AM
Im keeping my eyes peeled...i find the wait isn't too bad im quite used to it....

Sherlock Holmes
June 02, 2009, 10:47 AM
I wish POT was still weekly. POT is the kind of manga that just doesn't work that well monthly....

But anyway, do you guys think Ryoga would be in the American team?(Assuming he became a canon immigrant and appeared in the manga)

Atobe the king
June 02, 2009, 12:56 PM
I dont know...given the nature of Ohabu, Tezuka VS Fuji and the Tannhauser, Ryoga could happen but his back story is difficult to incooperate as opposed to some techniques

DavenSodan
June 02, 2009, 01:19 PM
The main question would be why Nanjiro never even mentioned him or why Ryoma got so much attention from his dad to achieve PoP or some similar and not Ryoga...

Anyway, how old is he in the movie? He looked like 20 or so...? Or did he have any special techniques besides this twist serve that was normal looking?

Sherlock Holmes
June 02, 2009, 07:50 PM
The main question would be why Nanjiro never even mentioned him or why Ryoma got so much attention from his dad to achieve PoP or some similar and not Ryoga...

Anyway, how old is he in the movie? He looked like 20 or so...? Or did he have any special techniques besides this twist serve that was normal looking?
He was able to go to space with Ryoma and play Dragonball Tennis in a sinking ship, does that count?

javimgol
June 03, 2009, 11:46 AM
He was able to go to space with Ryoma and play Dragonball Tennis in a sinking ship, does that count?

Well, Tezuka destroyed the dinosaurs with his Tezuka Zone, so I think it´s fair

DavenSodan
June 03, 2009, 12:11 PM
Actually that was just a methapor...:blink he was so much better that his opponent felt as hopeless as the dinos when the metor came down to destroy them all - or so I saw it. Or do u really believe that Tezuka traveld back in time on the court destroyed the dinos and won the match btw ? :eyeroll

Atobe the king
June 03, 2009, 12:39 PM
it was metaophorical, but no less ridiculous..

I like to call that scene

"One hell of a forehand"

Fayte
June 03, 2009, 12:46 PM
it was metaophorical, but no less ridiculous..

I like to call that scene

"One hell of a forehand"

Hahaha. Short, sweet and to the point.