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ofir271
May 06, 2009, 07:20 AM
many of the DF users have natural oponents that will have an advantage agianst them.

here are some of them:

(ofir271) luffy rubber agaist enel lightning
(ofir271) the marine that can make everything rust agaist MR 1 or zoro
(ofir271) miss valentine weight control against BB gravity control.(probably wont work)
(ofir271) ace > aokiji - fire against ice.
(ofir271) buggy >law
(roarzan) Hancock> sanji - knockout on the first round :)
(roarzan) kizaru > foxy - light is too fast to slow
(Razh) Croc > Aokiji -croc can suck moister so no ice can form
(beastboy) enel >kuma -lightning against metal
(bittman) ace >Magellan-fire burn poison
(beastboy) Captain with the berry berry fruit agains croc (berry's have water inside...)
(d3death) Usopp > Perona
(The Sea) kid > mr 1
(braindamage351)Alvida vs. Kalifa (Alvida is already perfectly smooth)
(braindamage351)Kizaru vs. Moria (no shadows)
(braindamage351)Ace vs. Mr 3 (candles melt)
(monkey D luffy)perona vs blackbeard (in ghost mode)
(monkey D luffy)enel vs aokiji
(Razh)Alvida vs Magellan's liquid attacks. (poison might slide of her?)
(polemidis)Jewelry Bonny vs Luffy at a food contest
(Lobotomy Jane)sanji vs boa
(BlindMunkey)BB vs kizaru

this is just part of the list.i stoped adding to it,since its becoming quite long.
the conversation is very much alive,please keep your posts going :)

BlackHair
May 06, 2009, 08:53 AM
-miss valentine weight control against BB gravity control.
Even if miss valentine reduces her weight to 0 gravity would still suck her in, as long she is physical material. Not to mention that her clothes have their own weight. I don't see how she can be called "natural enemy".

I think adding to Buggy, Robin would fit as well against Law.

Roarchu
May 06, 2009, 09:38 AM
if mass = 0

then weight = 0

that's the only way. But she can't so she doesn't count.

Mby BB is naturall enemy to Kizaru, cuz he said he has infinte gravity. Idk if that's true, but if it is then he can beat Kizaru, cuz not even light can escape black holes and stuff.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hancock to Sanji

Kizaru to Foxy - cuz light's too fast. Light's always the same speed relatively just cuz it's too fast. well idreallyk if Foxy's power makes things just slower or reduces it to a fraction of its total speed so idk

Razh
May 06, 2009, 09:58 AM
Even if miss valentine reduces her weight to 0 gravity would still suck her in, as long she is physical material. Not to mention that her clothes have their own weight. I don't see how she can be called "natural enemy".


I don't think she could be called natural enemy either.
But reducing her weight would be endlessly stupid. How about increasing her weight from beginning, or increasing her weight as she flies toward Blackbeard. That would pack a nice blow.:)

Crocodile could be effective against Aokiji. Far enough from the water that is. Aokiji needs moist in order to create ice. And Crocodile deals in absorbing the moisture.

d3death
May 06, 2009, 10:27 AM
Mr 1 was supposed to be natural against zoro.. no one had managed to cut him..


buggy against trafangar law.

even if buggy can split... law can burn him..

Razh
May 06, 2009, 10:54 AM
With what?

Oh, you must mean that flamethrower that Law carries on his back.

d3death
May 06, 2009, 11:09 AM
With what?

Oh, you must mean that flamethrower that Law carries on his back.

he manged to burn a marine in his "room" here (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/505/04/)

and the ring of fire under his hand here (http://www.onemanga.com/one_piece/506/05/)

Razh
May 06, 2009, 11:14 AM
He didn't burn a marine. A cannonball did it. When it exploded.

And that's not fire under his hand. He's not Ace. That's probably connected to that room of his.

beastboy
May 06, 2009, 02:49 PM
well I thin the power of the "room" is something like if anything happens in some place of the room it will affect all room, or something like that, but no one affected by that hit dies.
___________
well, enel-kuma (kuma is made of metal and probably a conductive one (See nami's atack) so enel would beat him with ease

bittman
May 07, 2009, 04:44 AM
I would agree with Buggy v Law. I mean, don't get me wrong, Law would win, but this isn't about who would win, just natural weaknesses.

I mean, Luffy didn't beat Enel easy because he was super effective against Zapdos.

Smoker v Ace -> not a natural opposite, but Ace was shown to be effective against Smoke

Magellan v Brawlers -> see the first Luffy fight

I'll have to think about others. Some like Mr 5 v Ace pop into my mind, but there are tons of characters in One Piece to compare and think about....

ofir271
May 07, 2009, 08:09 AM
i added some more opponents from the discussion.

bittman about Magellan against Brawlers ,can you remind me who brawlers is?
blackhair about robin agaist law - i idont sure i agree on that one i think law is the natural winner here

about miss valentine i agree she cant make it to the end but i would still want to see that fight

Razh
May 07, 2009, 10:16 AM
He meant close range barehanded fighter types.

BlackHair
May 07, 2009, 10:35 AM
Magellan is poison, therefore we need a df which is either immune or able to neutralize poison. So my first thought would be Ace, since heat can kill virus, poison etc.

About Ace vs Smoker, weren't those elements equally balanced? Neither one of them was dominating, so I wouldn't put them against each other.

BB himself is darkness, so light or fire would be the opposite. About the gravity, I thought maybe a "ghost" or sth would be immune, not sure though xD

Until Kizrau was introduced with the light logia, I always expected WB to be the one with the light element. As a natural hindrance of Blackbeard. Just my thoughts...

beastboy
May 07, 2009, 11:52 AM
dont talk about kizaru, monday I discovered that is laser is yellow, What a dissapointment..
_____
@on topic
Captain with the berry berry fruit agains croc (berry's have water inside...)

Razh
May 07, 2009, 12:05 PM
Well, light won't do anything special to Blackbeard since nothing escapes the black hole.
I do think Kizaru would have beaten Blackbeard though.
[hr]

dont talk about kizaru, monday I discovered that is laser is yellow, What a dissapointment..

Umm, what color did you think it was? White?

Besides, Kuma already used the laser, on Thriller Bark.

d3death
May 07, 2009, 02:22 PM
how could we forget Usopp vs Perona

although he lacks a DF.. but he is the the natural enemy of Perona.

Horohorohoro~~

beastboy
May 07, 2009, 05:52 PM
not that laser, Kuma used a red laser I think, I thought kizaru's laser as red!!
___________
No one said that kizaru would win, they said that kizaru would lose ^^.

And the guy above my previous post only said that light and darkness are opposites just like White Beard and Black beard, so light=WB^^
[hr]
edit: damn the laser is yellow, but that doesn't seams kizaru laser, thas elly A BEAM^^

The Sea
May 07, 2009, 06:23 PM
Buggy against Law? I don't think so. Law controls space, and Buggy can do nothing with him. He just need to stick a cannon ball on Buggy and..........

But:
Kidd against Mr.1.

BlindMunkey
May 07, 2009, 09:29 PM
Kidd against Mr.1.

yep thts way better.

i wonder how buggy vs mr.1 sounds?

Razh
May 08, 2009, 07:47 AM
not that laser, Kuma used a red laser I think, I thought kizaru's laser as red!!
___________
No one said that kizaru would win, they said that kizaru would lose ^^.

And the guy above my previous post only said that light and darkness are opposites just like White Beard and Black beard, so light=WB^^
<hr noshade size="1">
edit: damn the laser is yellow, but that doesn't seams kizaru laser, thas elly A BEAM^^

It's derived from Kizaru's DF, like Drake said. So it has the same color.
Anyway, why would a light devil fruit user shoot red lasers? It's not like the sun in One Piece is red.
[hr]

Buggy against Law? I don't think so. Law controls space, and Buggy can do nothing with him. He just need to stick a cannon ball on Buggy and..........


Where would he get the canon ball from?
Oh and people could still move inside the Room. They were confused because their body parts were never split before.
Buggy on the other hand is used to flying around in parts, so Law couldn't really do that much with his sword.
That's not to say that I think Buggy would win.

ofir271
May 08, 2009, 09:26 AM
Where would he get the canon ball from?
Oh and people could still move inside the Room. They were confused because their body parts were never split before.
Buggy on the other hand is used to flying around in parts, so Law couldn't really do that much with his sword.
That's not to say that I think Buggy would win.

i agree with Razh and even if buggy get a cannon attached to him he can probaly ditach its body with his DF power.
law will have the advantage only if his circle is bigger then buggys circle so he can basicly make his fit far enough from the rest of his body

i like both buggy vs mr.1 and kid against mr 1.but it can also be dangerous for kid since mr 1 is excellent at close combat.

Lord Rayleigh
May 08, 2009, 05:11 PM
Buggy on the other hand is used to flying around in parts, so Law couldn't really do that much with his sword.
That's not to say that I think Buggy would win.
Moreover, Buggy is not only used to flying around in parts, but he is able to retake his normal appearance too, even if Law has change his body, by using the bara bara powers. So, the DF of Law would not be so useful. He would not be able to use his sword neither : he would have to fight Buggy with punches and kicks.

braindamage351
May 08, 2009, 07:42 PM
Alvida vs. Kalifa (Alvida is already perfectly smooth)
Kizaru vs. Moria (no shadows)
Ace vs. Mr 3 (candles melt)
Don Krieg vs. Magellan (he eats poison for breakfast)
Buggy vs. Mihawk and Shanks (Number 1 swordsmanship is USELESS)

ofir271
May 09, 2009, 06:53 AM
Alvida vs. Kalifa (Alvida is already perfectly smooth)
Kizaru vs. Moria (no shadows)
Ace vs. Mr 3 (candles melt)
Don Krieg vs. Magellan (he eats poison for breakfast)
Buggy vs. Mihawk and Shanks (Number 1 swordsmanship is USELESS)

the first 3 will defenitlly have the advantage(Alvida vs. Kalifa lol)
about Don Krieg vs. Magellan- i dont thing the eating poison part is that important in their fight althogh it will give an advantage to magellan.
buggy deffenetly have an advantage against a swordman but he wont last for 2 sec against Mihawk and Shanks.

Onomatopoeia
May 09, 2009, 06:44 PM
the first 3 will defenitlly have the advantage(Alvida vs. Kalifa lol)
about Don Krieg vs. Magellan- i dont thing the eating poison part is that important in their fight althogh it will give an advantage to magellan.
buggy deffenetly have an advantage against a swordman but he wont last for 2 sec against Mihawk and Shanks.

Mihawk slashes Buggy with his pocket knife*

*Buggy splits in two*

Buffy: HAHAHAHA! You can't cut me I'm a-

*Mihawk punches him*

That's what 3-4 seconds?

BlindMunkey
May 10, 2009, 12:47 AM
i think buggy will just faint in the presence of Mihawk and Shanks. their release of haki will be more than enuff for buggy ^^
[hr]

Alvida vs. Kalifa (Alvida is already perfectly smooth)
Kizaru vs. Moria (no shadows)
Ace vs. Mr 3 (candles melt)
Don Krieg vs. Magellan (he eats poison for breakfast)
Buggy vs. Mihawk and Shanks (Number 1 swordsmanship is USELESS)

don krieg aint DF user and he used more than poison.

ofir271
May 10, 2009, 06:31 AM
Mihawk slashes Buggy with his pocket knife*

*Buggy splits in two*

Buffy: HAHAHAHA! You can't cut me I'm a-

*Mihawk punches him*

That's what 3-4 seconds?

sound about right :)

BlackHair
May 10, 2009, 07:43 AM
i think buggy will just faint in the presence of Mihawk and Shanks. their release of haki will be more than enuff for buggy ^^Despite being weak he used to be on Roger's ship thus he had several encounter with WB (in battle mode = full haki outburst). Therefore withstanding haki of Shanks or Mwk shouldn't be any problem. But i agree he will fall in several seconds lol

btw I disagree with Krieg vs Magallan. Like mentioned above Krieg didn't eat any fruit nor has he the necessary equipment to withstand Magallan's poison.

monkey D luffy
May 10, 2009, 05:50 PM
basicly any logia against mr1, perona vs blackbeard (in ghost mode),mr 4 (the one with the bat, i think he is 4) against luffy (luffy is pretty much immune to physical attacks), enel vs aokiji (lightning strikes well through water unless of course aokiji isnt water based)

wristbandsnow
May 12, 2009, 01:06 AM
Luffy rubber agaist enel lightning

You provides these thing. But are you sure for this type comparisation and their result use any person or any one.

Please forget you are doing comparisation and get benefits for this rubber.


I hope you are doing ....


Thanks

ofir271
May 12, 2009, 09:07 AM
Luffy rubber agaist enel lightning

You provides these thing. But are you sure for this type comparisation and their result use any person or any one.

Please forget you are doing comparisation and get benefits for this rubber.


I hope you are doing ....


Thanks

my point was that luffy DF gave him a huge advantage agaist enel.maybe i didnt understand what you meant

Razh
May 12, 2009, 07:18 PM
Alvida would probably be immune to Magellan's liquid attacks.

Liquid only. The gas would still knock her out.

kkck
May 14, 2009, 12:09 PM
Alvida would probably be immune to Magellan's liquid attacks.

Liquid only. The gas would still knock her out.

Why would she be immune?

Razh
May 14, 2009, 01:08 PM
Cause it would probably slip right off her skin. Nothing actually lands on her skin, so the poison would slip before it got into the system through the skin pores.

kkck
May 16, 2009, 04:25 PM
Cause it would probably slip right off her skin. Nothing actually lands on her skin, so the pooison would slip before it got into the system through the skin pores.

I don't think that would work with liquids though, I was under the impresion that that would work mostly for solid attacks. If you throw her a bucket of water, would she get wet or will the water just slip of? I am inclined to believe liquids will affect her the same way as with anyone else until proven otherwise lol.

Roarchu
May 16, 2009, 11:05 PM
maybe water, but Magellan's poison seems pretty thick i think, like there's lumps of poison. I think it would slip

BlindMunkey
June 21, 2009, 04:47 PM
i just thought of it... Blackbeard would be natural enemy for Kizaru.
blackbeard vs kizaru
blackbeard just sucks him up since not even can light escape his DF. or im just totally off here?
darkness vs light. i guess it could go either way but blackbeard has advantage over all df users.

Razh
June 22, 2009, 11:51 AM
i just thought of it... Blackbeard would be natural enemy for Kizaru.
blackbeard vs kizaru
blackbeard just sucks him up since not even can light escape his DF. or im just totally off here?
darkness vs light. i guess it could go either way but blackbeard has advantage over all df users.

Blackbeard is not Kizaru's natural enemy. He doesn't have any bigger advantage over Kizaru than over any other logia.

Some people really have a severe miscomprehension of the line - "not even light can escape".
It's not singling out of the light. It can be smoke, dirt, fire, water, wood...
Blackbeard just wanted to say that black holes suck in everything.

Whether he could really drag in Kizaru if he turned the other way and went lightspeed is a question. We've seen that Blackbeard's hole has a limited power.

kkck
June 22, 2009, 12:41 PM
The thing is, you can't really be immune to gravity. At best kizaru stands a change of being able to escape the force BB can exert on him but that would largely depend on how strong BB's gravity is. It is a fact gravity can change the direction in which light moves though.

Razh
June 22, 2009, 01:07 PM
The thing is, you can't really be immune to gravity. At best kizaru stands a change of being able to escape the force BB can exert on him but that would largely depend on how strong BB's gravity is. It is a fact gravity can change the direction in which light moves though.

It's all true. It's just a question whose force would be bigger. It could depend on how the user is used to his power. Whether he can pull out the maximum potential of his fruit.

BlindMunkey
June 23, 2009, 12:56 AM
Blackbeard is not Kizaru's natural enemy. He doesn't have any bigger advantage over Kizaru than over any other logia.

Some people really have a severe miscomprehension of the line - "not even light can escape".
It's not singling out of the light. It can be smoke, dirt, fire, water, wood...
Blackbeard just wanted to say that black holes suck in everything.

Whether he could really drag in Kizaru if he turned the other way and went lightspeed is a question. We've seen that Blackbeard's hole has a limited power.

i was thinking more along the line if BB were to spread the darkness around kizaru. would be he still able to move as like when he did to pwn scratchman apoo after he attacked kizaru? cuz from the looks of it he used light reflection?

Mugiwara_no_Jack
June 23, 2009, 03:22 AM
Buggy would kick Mr.1's ass I think

kkck
June 23, 2009, 10:10 AM
Buggy would kick Mr.1's ass I think

Nah, buggy cannot possibly hurt Mr 1. Not to mention buggy is immune to being cut, not punched. A good punch from mr 1 would destroy buggy.

ofir271
June 23, 2009, 05:56 PM
Nah, buggy cannot possibly hurt Mr 1. Not to mention buggy is immune to being cut, not punched. A good punch from mr 1 would destroy buggy.

i agree buggy wont win-he cant really hurt mr 1 - but it will be hard for him to loose and his abillity take the edge of mr ability.

anyone remember the name of the marine that make metal rust? he is prbably the worst enemy for mr 1

Lord Rayleigh
June 24, 2009, 04:07 PM
anyone remember the name of the marine that make metal rust? he is prbably the worst enemy for mr 1
His name is Shuu (http://www.volonte-d.com/perso/images/shuu.jpg) and he is a Colonel.

Gecko Moria
June 24, 2009, 06:13 PM
i just thought of it... Blackbeard would be natural enemy for Kizaru.
blackbeard vs kizaru
blackbeard just sucks him up since not even can light escape his DF. or im just totally off here?
darkness vs light. i guess it could go either way but blackbeard has advantage over all df users.

While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers. For example, Eneru was basically powerless after Luffy's rubber overcame his lightning powers. And Ace was extremely surprised when his fire powers were nullified by Blackbeard. However, I think someone of Kizaru's experience would be able to recover faster (though he doesn't seem to have any other weapons on him) and even if Blackbeard is incredibly strong, how many hits from Kizaru's lethal laser can he take?


His name is Shuu (http://www.volonte-d.com/perso/images/shuu.jpg) and he is a Colonel.

Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.

Lord Rayleigh
June 24, 2009, 06:23 PM
Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.
I agree that Colonel is an army rank. But it seems from the chapters I read that some marines were named as Colonels : either the translators seem to have not taken it into account or either Oda has decided that the marine of OP is different from the Navy of our world (after all, the marine of OP seems to be the only kind of military strenght of the WG).

ofir271
June 24, 2009, 06:44 PM
its hard for me to accept bb as anatural enemy to kizaru just because if its true he is a nurural enemy to everyone. kizaru wont loose more then other DF users in this battle.
and about logia agaist BB - i think its more if the DF user got enough power without his DF - to heart BB

Gecko Moria
June 24, 2009, 07:34 PM
I agree that Colonel is an army rank. But it seems from the chapters I read that some marines were named as Colonels : either the translators seem to have not taken it into account or either Oda has decided that the marine of OP is different from the Navy of our world (after all, the marine of OP seems to be the only kind of military strenght of the WG).

Probably a translation error by the translators (that's why you need a proofreader!). Although with reference to my Japanese dictionary, it is true that the Japanese word "Taisa" can refer to Colonel or Captain. But when referring to the "Kaigun" (Navy) it means Captain.


its hard for me to accept bb as anatural enemy to kizaru just because if its true he is a nurural enemy to everyone. kizaru wont loose more then other DF users in this battle.
and about logia agaist BB - i think its more if the DF user got enough power without his DF - to heart BB

I think people consider Blackbeard to be a natural enemy is Kizaru because the opposite of darkness is light. But yes, Blackbeard is a natural enemy to every logia as he can nullify their abilities. You misinterpreted "natural enemy" as being "weakest against something" which is not the case. And obviously Kizaru won't lose anymore to BB than any other DF user (in fact he would probably win IMO).

PS: ofir271, please use a spell-check or something. There are numerous errors in your writing that make it very hard to understand. Thanks :tem

BlindMunkey
June 24, 2009, 10:54 PM
While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers. For example, Eneru was basically powerless after Luffy's rubber overcame his lightning powers. And Ace was extremely surprised when his fire powers were nullified by Blackbeard. However, I think someone of Kizaru's experience would be able to recover faster (though he doesn't seem to have any other weapons on him) and even if Blackbeard is incredibly strong, how many hits from Kizaru's lethal laser can he take?



Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.
oh its because you are assuming that BB cant block the laser and for the reason being might be ace vs bb fight. and he is no newbie when it comes to haki. im just saying it wouldnt be all that easy for kizaru to get rid of him and since BB recently got his DF im sure hes still learning and improving how to use it. and im more than sure BB would win in all out battle with kizaru. but thts just me

Gecko Moria
June 24, 2009, 11:43 PM
oh its because you are assuming that BB cant block the laser and for the reason being might be ace vs bb fight. and he is no newbie when it comes to haki. im just saying it wouldnt be all that easy for kizaru to get rid of him and since BB recently got his DF im sure hes still learning and improving how to use it. and im more than sure BB would win in all out battle with kizaru. but thts just me

You are under the impression that I think Kizaru would easily defeat Blackbeard. Where in my post did I say that I say that Kizaru is more powerful than Blackbeard? There were actually some points in my reply that supported Blackbeard: "While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers."

You obviously thought my last remark meant that Blackbeard could not withstand Kizaru's laser. What I actually meant was he couldn't take numerous hits from Kizaru's laser, most people can hardly recover from one. Blackbeard was hurt by a few fire attacks from Ace, and Kizaru's laser has been shown to be a lot more devastating (Pacifistas, for example, are equipped with Kizaru's laser).

Roarchu
June 25, 2009, 04:36 PM
Pacifista and Brooke vs Ivankov

cuz they don't have hormones or anything

ofir271
June 25, 2009, 07:30 PM
I think people consider Blackbeard to be a natural enemy is Kizaru because the opposite of darkness is light. But yes, Blackbeard is a natural enemy to every logia as he can nullify their abilities. You misinterpreted "natural enemy" as being "weakest against something" which is not the case. And obviously Kizaru won't lose anymore to BB than any other DF user (in fact he would probably win IMO).

PS: ofir271, please use a spell-check or something. There are numerous errors in your writing that make it very hard to understand. Thanks :tem

i agree about BB being a natural enemy to logias but at the same time he is a natural enemy to all DF users.

about my spelling im sorry but nothing i can do really - english is my second language+im dislectic -> a winning situation:D. hope my posts dont make your grammer theacher too uncomfortable

BlindMunkey
June 29, 2009, 01:57 AM
You are under the impression that I think Kizaru would easily defeat Blackbeard. Where in my post did I say that I say that Kizaru is more powerful than Blackbeard? There were actually some points in my reply that supported Blackbeard: "While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers."

You obviously thought my last remark meant that Blackbeard could not withstand Kizaru's laser. What I actually meant was he couldn't take numerous hits from Kizaru's laser, most people can hardly recover from one. Blackbeard was hurt by a few fire attacks from Ace, and Kizaru's laser has been shown to be a lot more devastating (Pacifistas, for example, are equipped with Kizaru's laser).

u did say.. "how many lethal hits of kizaru's laser BB cant take".. and to me it sounds like that you think BB would just stand there and take those hits. and i was saying as previously that you are assuming BB cant block those laser hits. if dark king was able to block kizaru because of haki. why certainly cant BB do it.

Yabe
June 29, 2009, 07:07 AM
I think that we shouldn't take this too deep into the real fighting situation that involves avoiding/Haki or more techniques here, because this is the discussion about which DF power can beat which DF power in general.
I think we have to look at it as simply as Light vs Darkness which is totally the opposite abilities but we can never conclude for sure which side is a winner imo.

Gecko Moria
July 01, 2009, 07:53 PM
u did say.. "how many lethal hits of kizaru's laser BB cant take".. and to me it sounds like that you think BB would just stand there and take those hits. and i was saying as previously that you are assuming BB cant block those laser hits. if dark king was able to block kizaru because of haki. why certainly cant BB do it.

Dark King Rayleigh and Blackbeard are on completely different levels. I addition, we don't know if it was haki that allowed Rayleigh to deflect Kizaru's attack. Rayleigh didn't block the the laser attack, he deflected it by kicking Kizaru's leg away. You can't block a laser (not Kizaru's anyway) and hope it bounces off you; it will go through you. Blackbeard would probably just stand there because he's too confident in his strength (he didn't move to evade Ace's fire attacks much, did he?). Furthermore, he couldn't dodge Kizaru's lasers even if he tried. Kizaru's attacks move at the speed of light and Blackbeard has shown no sign of super-speed.


I think that we shouldn't take this too deep into the real fighting situation that involves avoiding/Haki or more techniques here, because this is the discussion about which DF power can beat which DF power in general.
I think we have to look at it as simply as Light vs Darkness which is totally the opposite abilities but we can never conclude for sure which side is a winner imo.

In order to compare the powers of two Devil Fruits we also need to consider who wields them. In this case, I think both sides (Kizaru and Blackbeard) have their strong points, but Kizaru would be the ultimate winner IMO. However, I will respect your judgement and stop the discussion on this particular topic.

Thank you :nod
And just to clarify, I see your point but since the discussion was focused on the theorized battle between Kizaru & BB, I saw it's going to be a long debate (we also have a thread of half a hundred posts for that) we could lose the more simpler real purpose of this thread, so I thought we better let the details on BB/Kizaru end right here.

BlindMunkey
July 03, 2009, 09:47 PM
err alright its ended then. until i come across something else again. laters ^^

Umbra Wolf
July 05, 2009, 05:45 AM
Pacifista and Brooke vs Ivankov

cuz they don't have hormones or anything
I guess you are quite right about Brook but I am not sure how a pacifista would fare against Ivankov. They are cyborgs not robots which means they are at least partially human und should react to hormons to a certain degree.

Zehahaha
July 05, 2009, 08:46 AM
I think that the natural enemy of Ao Kiji is the bounty hounter ( the fat one in the filler, he have glasses and the others called him " Papa " ) who can increase the temperature of his body or something like that

Gecko Moria
July 05, 2009, 08:36 PM
I guess you are quite right about Brook but I am not sure how a pacifista would fare against Ivankov. They are cyborgs not robots which means they are at least partially human und should react to hormons to a certain degree.

Brook has been shown to exhibit human behavior, despite being a skeleton (e.g. eating, drinking etc.) so he may be affected by the Hormone Hormone Fruit after all. I agree with the Pacifistas being cyborgs (i.e. part human) and may therefore be affected also.


I think that the natural enemy of Ao Kiji is the bounty hounter ( the fat one in the filler, he have glasses and the others called him " Papa " ) who can increase the temperature of his body or something like that

That would be Don Achino's Atsu Atsu no Mi (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Atsu_Atsu_no_Mi). However, Don is only a character in an anime filler arc therefore he doesn't count due to not existing in the manga. Ace and the Mera Mera No Mi is more likely to be Aokiji's natural enemy. You can find all the lovely discussion about Ace vs. Aokiji here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50332).

Polemidis
July 16, 2009, 08:41 AM
maybe you can also add Jewelry Bonny vs Luffy at a food contest :P

Lobotomy Jane
July 17, 2009, 06:16 PM
I dont know if someone has posted it already, but the most clear natural oponents are Sanji vs. Boa, since he's totally unefective against women, even more if they are beautiful.
But hey, this guy will perfectly be defeated by any woman :/ so i think it's better said Sanji vs. Female

And anyone can think about a serious oponent to Doflamingo? I think it's almost imposible to defeat a person who can control your movements. Does the Haki can act against his devil fruit power?

Black Lagoon
July 18, 2009, 04:30 AM
Nami treasure (oh! she's not a DF user but ... anyway )
Smoker Wind

Gecko Moria
July 18, 2009, 04:43 AM
I dont know if someone has posted it already, but the most clear natural oponents are Sanji vs. Boa, since he's totally unefective against women, even more if they are beautiful.
But hey, this guy will perfectly be defeated by any woman :/ so i think it's better said Sanji vs. Female

Because of his natural chivalrous nature, it is true that Sanji could possibly be defeated by any female as he would not attack them.


And anyone can think about a serious oponent to Doflamingo? I think it's almost imposible to defeat a person who can control your movements. Does the Haki can act against his devil fruit power?

So far, Doflamingo has only been shown to be able to easily manipulate the actions of weaker characters, I expect he would find it difficult to control stronger people. Though it has been hinted that Haki can counter the effects of Devil Fruits, it has not been confirmed that Doflamingo is using Devil Fruit powers.


Nami treasure (oh! she's not a DF user but ... anyway )
Smoker Wind

Smoker is afraid to use his powers when the weather is windy but that's not to say, wind is a crippling weakness. Smoker is able to increase the density of his smoke (allowing him to grab/attack objects), which may prevent it from getting blown away by wind.

Lobotomy Jane
July 23, 2009, 02:42 AM
Paulie vs. Buggy

Paulie can tie every floating part of Buggy when he's atacking :D

Sachsenhesse
August 07, 2009, 06:02 AM
magellan vs. kuma

kuma can repell his entire poison on the other hand take him down with some laser

Roarchu
October 18, 2009, 02:42 PM
Perona vs Doflamingo

cuz doflamingo can't control her or her ghosts