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mysteryguy12
May 27, 2009, 01:44 PM
Is it just me, or is Blackbeard one of the most bewildering characters in the entirety of this series? For the life of me, I can't figure out where his loyalties lie. Is he he good? Is he evil? Is he just trying to stir things up? Or does he have some kind of terrible master plan in store for the world? Let's take a look at the stats:

Bad points:
---Killed a former nakama in order to get the Yami Yami no Mi. (thats a big one)
---Sent Ace to Impel Down in order to get into the Shichibukai.
---Crew has murdered people for no reason. Like the doctor and his apples back in Jaya, or the sniper and those seagulls for no reason at all. And Laffitte is supposedly known for his brutality.

Good points
---Respect for another man's dreams (big one in the One Piece Universe in my opinion)
---Cares about his current crew. At least enough to shield them from Ace's attacks and tell them to back off so they'll survive.

Neutral or WTF points:
---Showed up at Impel Down and beat up some marines. Doesn't seem to be hostile toward the rest of the rebellion yet.
---Has the powers of Darkness. Sounds like the epitome of evil, but doesn't actually mean anything in specific.

So with all that, I've composed a three theories.
Number one: Blackbeard is evil. He owes allegiance to no one and has an intricate and genius plan to do something big and huge in the future for his own gain. He used Whitebeard to get the fruit, perhaps he is using the Marines and his Shichibukai status to gain something else and for some reason at this point he doesn't need them anymore which is why he is turning on them and attacking Impel Down. He and his crew will manipulate events from behind the scenes, such as bringing Whitbeard in a clash with the World Government, splitting the Yonkou and causing havoc and somehow, he will rise above it and achieve something great.

Number 2: Blackbeard is good. In spite of everything, the cunning man is hoping to set the world straight somehow. He has killed nakama for his goals and even sent Ace to prison in order to break in himself and somehow instigate a riot. Perhaps he even works for the revolutionaries and has been working behind the scenes all this time. He still has a great and intricate plan, only he seeks no power from it, but instead hopes to create something great.

Number 3: He just wants to have fun! This age of piracy is too boring for him and he wants to shake things up! Once he has his favorite fruit, he goads Whitebeard into fighting the World Government, gets Shanks and Kaidou to duke it out, release all the prisoners from Impel Down. Hell, that sounds like a pretty shook up world to me. And he loves it!

But I have no idea. They could all be true or it could be something totally different. I have no idea...but I can't wait to find out. What do you guys think?

BlackHair
May 27, 2009, 02:10 PM
BB is a man who lives for his dream to become PK. Just like Luffy. U can't call that being evil. Yet in his case, he does things ruthless. Such as killing his own nakama to get the fruit or rampaging at drum island for yet unknown reasons. Luffy wouldn't do such sort of things.

To become PK, he gathered strong companion. Which he needs for his dream. That would explain his care for the crew. Also I don't think he cares for Luffy's dream. He just protected himself, since Bellamy called ppl who live for their dreams stupid (context).

He knows the world and knows how it works, that's why he took side with the WG, to shield his ass from WB and marines. He is a planner, thus his current intrude in ID must have some sort of reason.

Anyway he is a pirate who would do everything to become the PK. Well and everything means without morale, therefore he is the perfect opposite from Luffy. Who wants to be the PK, who has morals and a own view of justice. Now comparing BB with Luffy he is evil - the antagonist. Actually every pirate is evil in the one piece world.

btw we have already a Blackbeard thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48058).

Onomatopoeia
May 27, 2009, 02:41 PM
Well evil is such a vague term, what exactly makes you evil? Killing a person because of greed should alone make you evil. Hell being a pirate in its own right should make you evil (Luffy evil *gasp*).

And yet here we have this thread.In the end whether BB is evil or not depends on what you think and how you define the term. However, one thing I'm quite sure of is that BB doesn't see himself as evil. In fact he probably scoffs at the term.

If anything I would argue that BB is a more chaotic character then simply being defined as good or evil. He's not doing this for the sake of being evil he's doing all this for his dreams like Luffy but he's taking a different path then Luffy. In the end it's all for his dream, he isn't interested in simple terms like good or bad.

I don't really have time to do this thread justice so I'll probablly post later to give a more detailed viewpoint on this.

bittman
May 27, 2009, 06:43 PM
As said above: Define evil

In the scale of evil in One Piece however, where the Gorousei and Tenryuubito are a 10 and Chopper is a 0, Blackbeard would be a 7.

I'm sure somewhere in there beats the heart of a good man and proud middle-initial-D, however he reaches his ambition through means you could tag as evil. Deceit, theft, murder and betrayal are just some of the boxes he could tick. Still, despite being a man who can be classed as evil, his dreams can be easily paralleled to that of our pure protagonist Luffy.

For the purpose of One Piece, if you only class things as good neutral and evil, then Blackbeard is evil I suppose.

And yeah, Blackbeard thread + final boss discussions are good reads for this type of topic.

ofir271
May 27, 2009, 06:43 PM
the way i see it its more about different ways.luffy and BB.
even their goal is different.maybe the name is the same but pirate king in luffys world is about freedom,while in BB world its somthing powerfull of a ceotic nature.
luffy doesnt see himself as the center of the world.he is flexible by nature and need a brigt world to florish.bb in the ather hand seems drker by nature and more self cenrured.they are both selfish but luffy s selfish is about helping his friends cause they are dear to him while BB doent seem to care too much about that.
i like BB just prefer luffys way.BB like advantures, he is acting on a wimp,he got that huge pirate spirit and he doesnt seem to be mean.
he is not evel by that sence of wanting to heart people or holding grudge.he take things more lithly and seem to enjoy life,in a way that mean poeple dont.

so my answer is that he is not evil but his dids may cause a lot of unnessacerry pain to others.

Razh
May 28, 2009, 01:15 PM
If I'd have to choose his alignment, I'd say he's chaotic neutral, if it weren't for the fact that he planned in advance. But he's pretty close to it, with the fate stuff and all.
He doesn't kill just for the sake of it, like that Shiryuu guy. He mentioned that killing Satchi was a spur of the moment. Doesn't necessarily mean that he is evil, even though some of his actions are.

So yeah, I'd say he's an chaotic neutral guy with a plan. :p

GreyEidolon
May 28, 2009, 01:40 PM
Well, in my opinion (which is really all it comes down to), he is evil. I mean, granted, he's jovial and lovable, but he's also a power-hungry nakamacidal oppurtunist. And I don't understand how anyone can suggest that killing in order to gain power is at all more noble than killing for the fun of it. The end result is the same.

Perhaps he's not the most evil dude in all of One Piece, but he's up there. At least in my eyes.

Razh
May 28, 2009, 02:06 PM
And I don't understand how anyone can suggest that killing in order to gain power is at all more noble than killing for the fun of it. The end result is the same.


It depends on the environment. If you're going to be a pirate you have to be aware that you might have to take lives in battle. Doesn't necessarily mean that you're evil.
Even Luffy and Zoro never worried too much in some of their battles. They fought with a lethal force. Luffy didn't pull back his punches so Lucci would survive. Zoro was using his best techniques in every battle.

As far as we know, Blackbeard only killed one man. And he said it was a spur of the moment.
There's a big difference between him and Doflamingo, for example, because that guy is obviously evil. Made one of his subordinates kill his own friend because the latter disappointed him.

GreyEidolon
May 28, 2009, 02:28 PM
The problem isn't that Blackbeard killed, it's that he killed someone because they had something he wanted. Not to defend or save anyone, not because he was provoked, because he wanted that power. Spur of the moment or not, it happened, he did it and he does not seem remorseful.

Though I agree, what Doflamingo did was comparatively more cruel.

Razh
May 28, 2009, 02:33 PM
Spur of the moment or not, it happened, he did it and he does not seem remorseful.


Yeah, that's why I'm leaning towards the chaotic neutral alignment.

zelllogan
May 28, 2009, 02:42 PM
BB is a psychopath for whom neutral, good and evil have no meaning.

cheaptrick
June 02, 2009, 06:21 AM
bb in 2 words: evil luffy

Rotten The Wizard
June 03, 2009, 02:03 PM
hm, I'd just say He's an opportunist. He's displayed some values and principles so you cant really tag him as an evil bastard.

He's just an opportunist. He doesnt wish to rule or terrorize, he just wants fame and fortune (OP).


and By that, Oda is a genius.

gao_dargon
July 09, 2009, 02:18 AM
bb in 2 words: evil luffy

ya i get you, but not so much as evil, but he has another sense of freedom and fun, also he does makes plans, wich Luffy don't

Franckie
July 10, 2009, 02:13 AM
BB's "evil" in the sense he's willing to sacrifice a nakama to achieve his goals. That's the key difference between him and Luffy.

Gecko Moria
July 10, 2009, 04:27 AM
BB's "evil" in the sense he's willing to sacrifice a nakama to achieve his goals. That's the key difference between him and Luffy.

It's no wonder he has a crew of equally vicious individuals. Shiryuu (the former chief warden who slaughtered many prisoners in Impel Down in cold blood), Van Auger (killing seagulls for enjoyment), Lafitte (who was known to be a very violent policeman). However, as others have said, Blackbeard is not evil in the sense of "murderer" evil. He has dreams that he aims to achieve (like Luffy) and would do anything to achieve those dreams.

gao_dargon
July 10, 2009, 12:15 PM
It's no wonder he has a crew of equally vicious individuals. Shiryuu (the former chief warden who slaughtered many prisoners in Impel Down in cold blood), Van Auger (killing seagulls for enjoyment), Lafitte (who was known to be a very violent policeman). However, as others have said, Blackbeard is not evil in the sense of "murderer" evil. He has dreams that he aims to achieve (like Luffy) and would do anything to achieve those dreams.


And Fighter was kicking mayor but just for fun, pumelling his oponets down and laughin about it, and the doctor was giving exploding apples to random ppl on the street just to test their "luck and fate", so yeah they are vicious, but if you think about it, wile they were doing that, BB himself was just enjoying some pay and a drink, so that gives you mixed thoughts about him


P.D I think Shiryuu was vice chief

Lord Rayleigh
July 10, 2009, 04:13 PM
BB is not evil, his objective is not to do the worst possible things he could do, he is just a guy that cares about himself and his dreams.
I think that what he said during the ID incident defines him well : " This talk of justice and evil, no matter where you search, there's no answer to be found. "
He thinks by and for himself and feels free and does not care if his behavior is said to be evil or immoral.

gao_dargon
July 10, 2009, 06:19 PM
BB is not evil, his objective is not to do the worst possible things he could do, he is just a guy that cares about himself and his dreams.
I think that what he said during the ID incident defines him well : " This talk of justice and evil, no matter where you search, there's no answer to be found. "
He thinks by and for himself and feels free and does not care if his behavior is said to be evil or immoral.

that my friend strikes me as a very selfish and egotistic person, perhaps even megalomaniac, and if he es enough of any of thouse things to kill a nakama, then that to me es evil, he might not be intentianly evil (like many american comics villasn who take pleasure in being bad) but evil is evil non the less

Lord Rayleigh
July 11, 2009, 03:15 AM
Yes, but he will not do bad things if he has not got some good personal reasons. That is the main difference with the classical pirates that kill and destroy for pleasure.
And he has a smart behavior, just remember in Jaya, he was not like Bellamy for example. But people do not say Bellamy is evil.

gao_dargon
July 11, 2009, 10:57 PM
well i guess it depends on youre definition of evil, for me a man that does bad things (like murder) for selfish reazons is an evil person

Drmke
July 11, 2009, 11:14 PM
I think he is a bad guy in the series, but as far as the age of pirates goes, I would just consider him another man trying to achieve his dreams by any means necessary. And its hard to categorize that as either "good" or "evil".

gao_dargon
July 12, 2009, 12:16 AM
I think he is a bad guy in the series, but as far as the age of pirates goes, I would just consider him another man trying to achieve his dreams by any means necessary. And its hard to categorize that as either "good" or "evil".

thats true, in a real life pirate age, he would be a normal guy, but then again evil in that time was not a big consept xD, thats why i said is relative to the morals of each person, for charles manson BB would be a very nice guy

JC123
July 14, 2009, 08:57 AM
P.D I think Shiryuu was vice chief

Actually, Shiryuu was the same status as Magellan. He ruled ID when Magellan was away for 17 hours a day.

And I kinda think of BB as the REAL blackbeard. He's not as insane (seriously, the guy lit his beard on fire to scare the crap outta people. It worked. Let's also remember he set his boat on fire as a challenge to his crew and was the Last. Man. to get out of it) but his determination is just the same.

gao_dargon
July 14, 2009, 10:56 PM
i guess we will be able to make that call further ahead as the series goes on, right now he has done some very ambiguos things to be 100% sure

ofir271
July 20, 2009, 09:03 PM
his beard is black and not white...
he bring emptiness and not light...
he got no value to other poeple life...as opose to luffy...

in my dictonery thats evel.
the best posible evil.
a one you can accept and even like
so good is also an acceptible part.

rejectz
July 20, 2009, 10:10 PM
in Chapter 544 he said" we are gonna shake this world to the core in a few hours"<<something like that....

My Theories:
- The Shicibukai are the ones who will rescue Ace....yes even Blackbeard who captured him:s
- We Will see all the Yonkou there..Gaidou and Yandoi as well....
- SOMEONE WILL DIE....someone important....maybe Whitebeard or even Ace..hmmmm???
- Dragon will meet Luffy???
- The Crew have already joined up?? and meet Luffy there..<<i know weird but i think its a waste of time to make the next arc about finding them all...maybe Kuma will teleport them all to Marine HQ

bittman
July 20, 2009, 11:55 PM
in Chapter 544 he said" we are gonna shake this world to the core in a few hours"<<something like that....

My Theories:
- The Shicibukai are the ones who will rescue Ace....yes even Blackbeard who captured him:s
- We Will see all the Yonkou there..Gaidou and Yandoi as well....
- SOMEONE WILL DIE....someone important....maybe Whitebeard or even Ace..hmmmm???
- Dragon will meet Luffy???
- The Crew have already joined up?? and meet Luffy there..<<i know weird but i think its a waste of time to make the next arc about finding them all...maybe Kuma will teleport them all to Marine HQ

1. Would ruin the WG as any sort of enemy, basically guarantee pirates will rule the world in chaos.
2. Kaidou is fighting Shanks, and the other Yonkou would definitely not be captured, wouldn't be a Yonkou if they were captured really...
3. Whitebeard and/or Ace's death would shake the world, but given Blackbeard is in Impel Down, it would not be "his show".
4. Also not Blackbeard's show.
5. What's that shaking?

Blackbeard himself is going to shake the world to it's core, the fact that he believes he can do this when Whitebeard is fighting the WG means more than we can possibly imagine at this stage. The world is shaking right now, but to think you can shake it more than this once in a lifetime conflict is quite a boast.

I've heard many guesses to Blackbeard's intentions, but none have given me shivers. I expect Oda to give me shivers with this one...

modoki
December 10, 2009, 03:21 PM
in Chapter 544 he said" we are gonna shake this world to the core in a few hours"<<something like that....

My Theories:
- The Shicibukai are the ones who will rescue Ace....yes even Blackbeard who captured him:s
- We Will see all the Yonkou there..Gaidou and Yandoi as well....
- SOMEONE WILL DIE....someone important....maybe Whitebeard or even Ace..hmmmm???
- Dragon will meet Luffy???
- The Crew have already joined up?? and meet Luffy there..<<i know weird but i think its a waste of time to make the next arc about finding them all...maybe Kuma will teleport them all to Marine HQ

I may have figured out what blackbeard is trying to do to shake the world. Check this out.

I believe that Blackbeard will release these three from Impel Down and add them to his crew as well (Shiryuu being a former warden he should have "keys").

1. Catarina Devon ( Most dangerous woman in the pirate age )
2. Basco Shot ( The heavy drinker )
3. San Juan Wolf ( The Collosal Battleship )

These three individuals according to Ivankov in Chapter 538 had crimes that were so bad, the marines wanted their history erased completely. Apparently someone told BB about them, and now fate will probably be on his side more than ever.
If these three are released, no doubt BB will have a very dangerous and powerful crew, and Sengoku will probably stress real badly if he finds out.


There is a chance when BB surfaces he may definitely be the one to end WB's life and may take the title of strongest man alive, possibly Yonkou.

When i say Yonkou, i mean support and power.As you can see from this war, Whitebeard living like an emperor has so much support from tons of pirates that support him. They are going as far as putting their life on the line for one his Captains, Ace. That's loyalty and real support.
Now, if these three notorious criminals in level 6 had plenty of allies during their time that helped them be soo dangerous, that concept may be revived just to really get BB's name out there and get support as well. That's some pretty big dark fate.

ZenoArmani
December 10, 2009, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I also drew the same conclusion some time back. It would make Blackbeard into a much more serious Younkou-level threat, with 5 Shishibukai or even Marine Admiral level crew members including himself.

Btw: About the topic: As Blackbeard said himself in Impel Down, he has no standards of good and evil, since he doesn't believe any to exist, and as such he is completely amoral and willing to do anything whatsoever that benefits him in the slightest, which makes him similar to Doflamingo (and extremely evil to almost anyone who has any standards), but is less sadistic, stylish and showy about it, and does believe in ambitions and dreams, since these connect to the rule of power and enjoyment. Dead underlings wouldn't benefit him, so he tries to keep them safe if they are useful, but is othervise willing to sacrifice anyone, and has no true honour or loyalties beyond himself.

Poneglyph420
December 10, 2009, 10:43 PM
Yes, BB would be "evil" by definition, but by no means is he intentionally evil.
He's totally self concerned, and diabolical. I think he is just out for himself, but he has a vision of romance and holds true to the dreamers ethic of pirating...


I think he is "evil" but not in a chaotic, madness, tenryuubito way..
[hr]

I may have figured out what blackbeard is trying to do to shake the world. Check this out.

I believe that Blackbeard will release these three from Impel Down and add them to his crew as well (Shiryuu being a former warden he should have "keys").

1. Catarina Devon ( Most dangerous woman in the pirate age )
2. Basco Shot ( The heavy drinker )
3. San Juan Wolf ( The Collosal Battleship )

These three individuals according to Ivankov in Chapter 538 had crimes that were so bad, the marines wanted their history erased completely. Apparently someone told BB about them, and now fate will probably be on his side more than ever.
If these three are released, no doubt BB will have a very dangerous and powerful crew, and Sengoku will probably stress real badly if he finds out.


There is a chance when BB surfaces he may definitely be the one to end WB's life and may take the title of strongest man alive, possibly Yonkou.

When i say Yonkou, i mean support and power.As you can see from this war, Whitebeard living like an emperor has so much support from tons of pirates that support him. They are going as far as putting their life on the line for one his Captains, Ace. That's loyalty and real support.
Now, if these three notorious criminals in level 6 had plenty of allies during their time that helped them be soo dangerous, that concept may be revived just to really get BB's name out there and get support as well. That's some pretty big dark fate.


I really like this theory, and can see how it would pan out. This would also bolster his crew for the NW... Very nice ideas. I that's the case BB will have increased his crew's power greatly..

Thanks Modoki (Great name btw...modoki ..)

ZenoArmani
December 11, 2009, 08:28 AM
Well, it's not like it's a new theory, chess4 and I have both independently come up with it before just to start with, but since several people have reached the same conclusion on their own maybe that shows that the idea makes sense?

Razh
December 11, 2009, 09:54 AM
Can any of you explain why would famous and dangerous pirate captains like that settle for being just crew members?

urlaub
December 11, 2009, 10:03 AM
Why did Ivankov follow Luffy? Luffy has something that Dragon has. BB has that too.

Anyways, there could be many possibilities why they would follow BB. Oda just has to choose some logical ones.

Razh
December 11, 2009, 10:05 AM
Why did Ivankov follow Luffy? Luffy has something that Dragon has. BB has that too.

Don't be absurd. Ivankov didn't join Luffy's crew. And he expected that Dragon will get involved, so he thought his time to move has come. He didn't just follow Luffy. Might wanna read that part again.

It's not much of a theory when you guys can't even give a few good reasons why a couple of pirates who were strong and dangerous enough to be in level 6, would settle as crewmen under some captain.

chess4
December 11, 2009, 10:15 AM
Can any of you explain why would famous and dangerous pirate captains like that settle for being just crew members?

for the same reason shiryuu joined, either go with BB or stay in impel down to die. thats not much of a a choice in my book. also was it ever stated they were captains? i thought they were just famous pirates.

BB is as carismatic as luffy. as twisted as he is, he obviously cares about his crew because he told them to run when he fought ace. a hardened killer like shiryuu submited himself to BB's crew in an instant.

BB is aiming for the top. the same reason the strawhats follow luffy, is the same reason those 3 will follow BB(thats if he is there to get them) because he is crazy and reckless enough to break into impel down, then he must be crazyt enough to aim for pirate king. the saying birds of a feather flock together is approriate here(yea i know its corny). as soon as shiryuu meet BB, he knew BB was the real deal.

the Blackbeard pirates are just a darker version of the strawhats, and i think they will be a big time crew in the new world. i also think they are destined to duke it out with the strawhats for the title of pirate king.

the BB's have no ship nor do they have any female crewmates, and their crew is small and will be small. san juan's nickname is colossal ship, so he obviously has a ship or is a shipwright or something. and ms devon would be that one female in the group.

makes a lot of sense to me. like i said earlier, its either join or stay in impel down, just that alne would get them to join.

urlaub
December 11, 2009, 10:18 AM
Well, I know there are more issues why Ivankov joined the jailbrake gang. I just pointed out one possible reason. As I stated Oda could use more logical ones if he wants. Do you think that Oda will not be able to find any logical reasons for them joining, if he would want them to join? Well, if you think Odas possible reasons will not satisfy you, then you will be just another unsatsfied fan.

But if you want to see the logic already now, before this possible act is reasoned in the future, then for example:

1)BB promises them freedom to kill and slaughter
2)to rule the world
3)to offer them freedom
4)to not kill them( in their bad and disadvantaged state their in)
5)BB has some D-charm you know
6)He offers them to participate in the war and have a chance at getting the gold-medal again.
7) He let's them see that with him they could fulfill their dreams.
8)Shiryuu joined BB by some stupid reason anyway. Oda could have had a better one probably. It shows that there have to be no genius reasons.
9) Where these pirates claimed to be stronger than BB or Shiryuu?
10)Maybe some of them wanna revenge on Rayleigh, Shiki or Garp and the 3 admirals etc.
11)Nico Robin was pretty strong in his time, when joining the SHs. Maybe those three do not have a goal in their life and nowhere to go, lik Robin or something?
12)BB needs some new nakama anyway to match the strawhats I think. At least he needs a ship and San Juan is named a ship.
13)BB went onward to lover levels after he probably had made Shiryuu is nakama. Do you expect Shiryuu to be his only target? More like an accidental choice? etc


Well yeah, chess's ideas are also good. Waiting for scrutiny!

Razh
December 11, 2009, 10:33 AM
Maybe they haven't been captains, but they should have been ridiculously strong to be put in level 6.

I always thought that it's a possibility that Blackbeard will get some prisoners in his crew. But he didn't go to ID just to recruit some pirates that Oda mentioned before. Oda doesn't foreshadow things in such an obvious way.
Also, Blackbeard recruiting 3 more people in his crew is hardly an event that will shake the foundations of the world.:p

He either came for one specific prisoner or he came for something that we don't know nothing about yet. Like a tunnel to Red Line or something.
That San Juan may be a shipwright too. I really doubt that he has a devil fruit that transforms him into a battleship. How would he work at sea?
Blackbeard might need a shipwright to build him a ship. Maybe that San Juan is someone who saw the blueprints of legendary weapon.

Anyway, that's what I'm trying to say. You don't break into ID like that hoping to get some random recruits. You come for someone specific.

urlaub
December 11, 2009, 10:50 AM
Yeah those could be the specific three. Anyhow, San juan could be a flying battleship. Jus imagine the strawhats and BB having a flying ship battle. Would be extraordinary!

To be more exact: I have been predicting that San juan is a flying ship for about a month now.

Razh
December 11, 2009, 02:04 PM
To be more exact: I have been predicting that San juan is a flying ship for about a month now.

Yeah, good luck with that...

Oda mentioning 3 names among many lv 6 prisoners and Blackbeard coming to get exactly those 3 would be lame, in my opinion. And it's not how Oda does things.

ZenoArmani
December 11, 2009, 02:46 PM
Can any of you explain why would famous and dangerous pirate captains like that settle for being just crew members?Because, like for the similarly powerful Shiryuu, it's their way out of lifetime imprisonment, which has taught them a painful lesson in that one "silver medallist" pirate (to Whitebeard's level, as Crocodile put it) won't quite cut it as a Yonkou, much less Pirate King, but 5 of them put together in a partnership (and mostly staying out of each other's way othervise)?! Now we're really talking business...

Beyond this, it's simply a really cool idea to boost Blackbeard into a very serious threat, and as for "obvious" mentions. A story needs foreshadowing to pique some interest, rather than pull things out of the blue (Remember how Oda was surprised that anyone even noticed Dragon's future significance when asked about it in the volume Q&A's before Garp's revelation?), or not ever get the chance to do anything with seemingly important mentions/plot thread starters, and even so I doubt that most readers pick up on the possibility until/if we're told that Blackbeard has recruited them.

Still, I suppose that you could be right in that Blackbeard either recruited some other level 6 prisoners to his crew, while those 3 mentioned legends went off on their own or similar, but that wouldn't be as thematically satisfying to me. However, I do like your idea that he was after even more than extremely heavy recruits, such as a powerful battleship, or dangerous information, and that he may have got even more than 4 level 6 prisoners.

zagorka
December 11, 2009, 03:51 PM
As people have stated before, to define BB as an evil person is hard to argue when we have the World Government, the most "just" organization commit horrendous atrocities. We just had the WG sacrifice many marines to defeat a large amount of pirates in this war. So BB's evil compared to what?

Blackbeard became apart of WB's crew, but this was only a facade. It's highly likely he never regarded any of the crew on Whitebeard's ship as his nakama. So killing someone over a devil-fruit (a very powerful one at that) was probably his last resort to taking it. Sure he's done pretty bad things, but he's a traditional pirate who wants to conquer. Yes, he killed Marines to get out of his way into Impel Down, and yes, he has a crew full of ruthless people who don't think twice about killing people.

While we know Blackbeard will go to any extent to conquer the seas and become the Pirate King, we haven't seen him do anything compared to what the World Government did to Ohara.

All we know is that his will and dream conflicts directly with Luffy's.

ZenoArmani
December 11, 2009, 04:55 PM
So just because the WG is doing horrible things, anyone else who has no ethical standards and is willing to murder anyone can't be evil? That doesn't make any sense. Different sides can contain absolute bastards and perfectly decent people. And for that matter, even though the Gorousei are genocidal scum, the Marines contain several decent members as well, such as Smoker, Coby, and Tashigi.

Jiggy-Ninja
December 15, 2009, 02:48 AM
Yeah, good luck with that...

Oda mentioning 3 names among many lv 6 prisoners and Blackbeard coming to get exactly those 3 would be lame, in my opinion. And it's not how Oda does things.
Blackbeard recruiting those three along with several other as yet unnamed Level 6-ers would make the most sense, IMO.

I don't think that Oda would hint at their huge reputations like that and not bring them out later in the story. That would just be kinda lame.

I have a hard time imagined the Blackbeard pirate crew following anything resembling normal logic, given how he talked after being poisoned by Magellan. ("Lining and dying, it's all up to the heavens! Even the best men will fall sometimes." Somewhat paraphrased from memory.) They might not have invaded Impel Down in order to get anything specific, but just been hoping to get as many of the Level 6-ers to join their crew as possible.

Razh
December 15, 2009, 06:36 AM
I have a hard time imagined the Blackbeard pirate crew following anything resembling normal logic, given how he talked after being poisoned by Magellan. ("Lining and dying, it's all up to the heavens! Even the best men will fall sometimes." Somewhat paraphrased from memory.) They might not have invaded Impel Down in order to get anything specific, but just been hoping to get as many of the Level 6-ers to join their crew as possible.

Blackbeard did plan through everything, as he says. He wouldn't become a Shichibukai then turn into a traitor that puts WG into shame just to go ti ID and see if anyone wants to join his crew.
Also, Blackbeard seems to take specific type of men into his crew, otherwise, I imagine he would have a larger crew by now. Inviting bunch of super strong pirates into his crew would be too risky. What if their views are different? What if they want to kill him and take command. We're talking about the big shots here. It isn't excluded that some of them could be stronger than him.
Perhaps he will free them, to create even bigger chaos in ID, but I don't think he would want anyone to join his crew or that all or any of them would want to join.

A lot of people think that Blackbeard wanted to collect some tough pirates, then go to Marineford and kill Whitebeard.
But you have to realize that this battle at Marineford was never a part of Blackbeard's original plan. He planned to hunt down Luffy and turn him in, and that was before he knew Ace was his brother. If Luffy was the one who was caught, it wouldn't be big news, ID wouldn't be heavily guarded and Whitebeard probably wouldn't go to war. And I think Blackbeard would still go to ID because it's too much of a deal to be just an add-on to his grand scheme.
That's why I think he went to ID for someone specific, with a certain knowledge of a devil fruit that helps his plans. Or maybe there's a tunnel leading to Red Line.

Even you guys who believe that his plan is to gather all those from level 6 have to admit that it's hardly something that will shake the foundations of the world to the core.
-OMFG Blackbeard gathered a large crew!!!:o

modoki
December 15, 2009, 10:26 AM
Well he is short of a few crew members after all.

Perhaps one of those 3 in prison or all 3 knows the new world quite well.
Maybe he is getting those 3 and returning back to the level where Magellan is. Shiryuu or one of those three will probably end up finishing off Magellan.

Then again there is one person of our interest that is still in ID :(

Jiggy-Ninja
December 15, 2009, 04:05 PM
Blackbeard did plan through everything, as he says. He wouldn't become a Shichibukai then turn into a traitor that puts WG into shame just to go ti ID and see if anyone wants to join his crew.
Also, Blackbeard seems to take specific type of men into his crew, otherwise, I imagine he would have a larger crew by now. Inviting bunch of super strong pirates into his crew would be too risky. What if their views are different? What if they want to kill him and take command. We're talking about the big shots here. It isn't excluded that some of them could be stronger than him.
Perhaps he will free them, to create even bigger chaos in ID, but I don't think he would want anyone to join his crew or that all or any of them would want to join.

A lot of people think that Blackbeard wanted to collect some tough pirates, then go to Marineford and kill Whitebeard.
But you have to realize that this battle at Marineford was never a part of Blackbeard's original plan. He planned to hunt down Luffy and turn him in, and that was before he knew Ace was his brother. If Luffy was the one who was caught, it wouldn't be big news, ID wouldn't be heavily guarded and Whitebeard probably wouldn't go to war. And I think Blackbeard would still go to ID because it's too much of a deal to be just an add-on to his grand scheme.
That's why I think he went to ID for someone specific, with a certain knowledge of a devil fruit that helps his plans. Or maybe there's a tunnel leading to Red Line.

Even you guys who believe that his plan is to gather all those from level 6 have to admit that it's hardly something that will shake the foundations of the world to the core.
-OMFG Blackbeard gathered a large crew!!!:o
Good points. I'd almost forgotten myself that Blackbeard planned to go after Luffy first, and Ace was just a target of opportunity. Perhaps this war is what he meant when he said his plan hadn't gone entirely smoothly.

I do think that if Luffy had been caught, ace would come to save him, and Whitebeard might have gone with him. But since Blackbeard didn't know about that connection, that couldn't have been part of his plan either.

Releasing all the prisoners from Level 6 would most certainly be a huge thing. Remember, Iva said that they were people who committed deeds so atrocious that they were suppressed from appearing in the newspapers, and that the mere mention of their names could instill fear in those that heard them. If Blackbeard got a significant number of them to join his crew, and persuaded the rest to at least go do something big like totally wreck all of Impel Down and sink it into the sea, that would certainly be a world shaking event.

I don't think that he's just after prisoners though. Ever since he penetrated the prison, it seemed that he had a particular interest in Magellan. He wants Magellan for something, for what I don't know yet.

chess4
December 17, 2009, 04:32 PM
Good points. I'd almost forgotten myself that Blackbeard planned to go after Luffy first, and Ace was just a target of opportunity. Perhaps this war is what he meant when he said his plan hadn't gone entirely smoothly.

I do think that if Luffy had been caught, ace would come to save him, and Whitebeard might have gone with him. But since Blackbeard didn't know about that connection, that couldn't have been part of his plan either.

Releasing all the prisoners from Level 6 would most certainly be a huge thing. Remember, Iva said that they were people who committed deeds so atrocious that they were suppressed from appearing in the newspapers, and that the mere mention of their names could instill fear in those that heard them. If Blackbeard got a significant number of them to join his crew, and persuaded the rest to at least go do something big like totally wreck all of Impel Down and sink it into the sea, that would certainly be a world shaking event.

I don't think that he's just after prisoners though. Ever since he penetrated the prison, it seemed that he had a particular interest in Magellan. He wants Magellan for something, for what I don't know yet.

i dont think BB will have a large crew. if he gets those 3 pirates invankov was talking about on level 6 then i think that will be it for them. we all know the strawhats and BB miiror each other and will continue to do so.