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Imitorar
May 31, 2009, 09:10 PM
I've been reading through quite a few fairy tales today, including some Japanese ones. And I found what seem very strongly to be the sources for some character design points that haven't been mentioned in translator notes or anything, as far as I know.

Firstly, the nicknames of the three admirals, Aokiji (Blue Pheasant), Kizaru (Yellow Monkey), and Akainu (Red Dog) seem to come from the story of Momotaro (http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/books/japan/ozaki/momotaro.html), who befriends a monkey, a pheasant, and a dog in order to attack an island of demons.

One of the Meowban Bothers (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/31/14/) was named Buchi. This name is apprently a reference to a famous cat in Japanese folklore (http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/books/japan/freemanmitford/faithfulcat.html).

Sentomaru (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/511/06-07/) seems to have been modeled off of the classical portrayal of Kintaro (http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/books/japan/ozaki/kintarogoldenboy.html), who is often portrayed as carrying a large ax, being rather plump, and wearing a haragake (a sort of bib worn by children in ancient Japan) with a symbol on the front, although Kintaro's symbol is usually said to be the kanji for gold, rather than a tomoe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoe). I mean, just look at the picture on the cover of the book linked to on the right of the story I linked to, that image of Kintaro is almost a dead ringer for Sentomaru. Here (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=PGc&q=kintaro%20folktale&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) is a Google Image Search of Kintaro, and you'll see that many representations of him resemble Sentomaru.

So wrack your brains for what you know of Japanese folklore and see if you can find any references that Oda dropped!

Note: This thread is for folkloric references only. Things like the admirals looking like old Japanese actors don't count, because that's modern Japanese culture. This thread is for classical Japanese culture.

Note 2: Please provide links to support your reference. It's much easier to appreciate a folktale reference if you know the folktale behind it, and some people may just like to read the stories.

Ustegius
June 01, 2009, 05:30 AM
Ashinagatenaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashinagatenaga), longarms and longlegs. Even though briefly mentioned in OP (+Apoo), these species are pretty straight forwardly captured from folklore.

Then there is something so obvious folklore in OP, that majority probaply doesn't even take it as folklore; Giants. Just come on, Elbaf => Fable.

Also, remeber that Tanuki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki) (Chopper often mistaken as one) have always been part of japanese folklore. Also, Pell had pretty Tengu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu)-ish design in his halfform.

Akainu
June 01, 2009, 06:16 AM
Also one of the more recent references I remember:
Kizarus attacks are namend after the Imperial Reaglia of Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Regalia_of_Japan). The sword (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/08/) was Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi) later changed to Kusenagi no Tsurugi. As for the mirror (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/07/) that's Yata no Kagami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yata_no_kagami).
These regalia are connected to the myth of the very beginning of Japan that connects the deity Amaterasu to the japanese imperial line.

Dunno if that counts as folklore since these things are said to really exist

Organizized
June 01, 2009, 07:34 AM
Oh yeah, I remember some discussion about this from when Kizaru was looking for Sentoumaru. Before Sentoumaru actually made his appearance and was revealed as Vegapunk's bodyguard, people thought he might be much like Momotaro, but to the Admirals, some kind of middle man between them and Sengoku (I remember people calling him "peach-boy" before his name was revealed as well).

But yeah, the main inspiration for Sentoumaru's character (heck, it's so strongly inspirated that you might call it a reference) seems to be Kintaro. Did anyone mention, by the way, that in the folklore, Kintaro grew up with and used to wrestle bears? Seems kind of fitting with Sentoumaru's sumo theme as well as having a close connection to the Kumabots.

Another one that I'm almost certain has been mentioned elsewhere, but not yet in this thread, is the very obvious reference between Hannyabal and Hannya, the female demon and also one of the most well known demons in Japanese folklore. She is often depicted using a mask (http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=sv-se&q=hannya&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi) very similar to Hannyabal's face. She is often described as jealous and

EDIT: Found a somewhat "summed up" story where the female demon appears.


An ancient legend recalls how the female Hannya persecuted all who attempted to pass through the Rashomon gate of Kyoto. A staunch samurai named Watanabe no Tsuna decided to lay in wait for the demon in order to slay it, until he was eventually persuaded by a beautiful young woman to escort her into town. As they travelled, Watanabe happened to glance over his shoulder and saw the young woman transforming into a terrifying demon. As the demon then laid hold of Watanabe, he quickly wielded his sword and cut off the monster's arm. As Hannya fled screaming, Watanabe carefully wrapped the severed arm and later hid it in a secured chest.
After much time had passed and the event had faded into memory, Hannya disguised herself as Watanabe's aunt and thereby convinced him to display his "trophy" of Hannya's limb. Upon seeing her arm, the demon immediately reverted into her hideous appearance and, grabbing the arm, fled from the house of Watanabe.

On this (http://tattoojoy.com/tattoo_articles/the_meaning_of_japanese_tattoos.htm) page there's another story for those who like to read, under the title Kiyo Hime.

I also just read that the Hannya demon is usually vengeful and, especially, jealous. The jealous part rather fits with Hannyabal's extreme urge to become Chief Warden, does it not? :tem

gao_dargon
July 09, 2009, 12:55 AM
The Kidnaper named Peterman is obviously based (only by name i think, cuz i can't find any other resembel) on peter pan, also crocodile is based on captain hook (his hand being a hook and his crocodile theme) and the power to de-attach shadows of Moria can also be linked to peter, i don't know if you regard fairy tails as folklor but i thought it was worth mentioning it

Gecko Moria
July 09, 2009, 03:09 AM
The One Piece Encyclopedia provides many relationships between One Piece and Japanese folklore. Here's are a couple:

"Sengoku" can be written in kanji as 戦国, meaning "warring states," a term borrowed from ancient Chinese to represent a period of history in Japan. Seems appropriate to me that the commander of the marines has a name that relates to war.

Gecko Moria's first name is not only based on the gecko, but it is also a pun on the Japanese word for moonlight, Gekkou, given his nightmare theme. Also, Mori is a Japanese surname that means death.

Onomatopoeia
July 09, 2009, 10:19 AM
Well I suppose one example would be Brooke's spirit (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/443/07/) back when it was returning to its body. It looks strikingly similar to a Hitodima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitodama) which in Japanese Folkore is supposed to be a human spirit that has recently departed.

Another example would be Enel (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/469/01/), who shares a lot of similarities with Raijin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raijin), a thunder god in Japanese Mythology. For instance they both have those drums on their backs(the one's with the Tomoe's on them). Another even clearer example is Enel's strongest attack, 200,000,000 Volts Amaru which transforms Enel into electricity and makes him look even more like Raijin.

In Japanese Folklore Raijin is probably most famous for the legend that he was the one who stopped the Mongolian Invasian Fleet in 1274 by throwing a shower of lightening arrows against the fleet.

gao_dargon
July 09, 2009, 05:09 PM
also, the ppl of sky island, well they have wings, im preaty sure that came from angels, with enel being their "god" and everything

Elyon A. Luna
July 10, 2009, 04:48 PM
One that has been so far overlooked by it's obviousness: Usopp lies and long nose are based on the famous tale of
Pinocchio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio).

Also, Enel's attacks are mostly named after different thunder and weather gods from around the world:

Sango (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango)

Thor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor)

Kari, a malayan god of thunder

Hino, a native american (Iroquois) god of thunder

Kiten, an asian god of thunder. Also a pun on the word "kitten"

Julunggul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julunggul)

Mamaragan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamaragan)

Raigo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raigo)

Well, I'll leave it anyway

Akainu
July 10, 2009, 05:00 PM
This thread is for classical Japanese culture.


One that has been so far overlooked by it's obviousness: Usopp lies and long nose are based on the famous tale of
Pinocchio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio).

Not so much overlooked, but this tale simply doesn't exist in japan .. I think.

Roarchu
August 09, 2009, 11:42 PM
or what would they be the real world

Jimbei seems like he'd be from Hawaii or one of the other Pacific Islands to me. Cuz of his clothes and the sun tattoo.

the Giants could be vikings

and Moria...from wherever count Dracula's supposed to be from

The purpose of this thread is to to find Oda's characters' origins and inspirations, NOT to joke about the characters' nationality. Therefore, serious ideas only.

Gecko Moria
August 10, 2009, 12:00 AM
and Moria...from wherever count Dracula's supposed to be from

Transylvania?

As for the other character, Oda probably designed them from a wide range of countries/ethnic groups. A few I can remember right now:

Zoro: from Zorro, the legendary swordsman of Spain.
Aokiji, Kizaru and Akainu: the 3 Admirals appear to be based on famous Japanese actors.
Mihawk: another character that makes allusions to Dracula from Transylvania. His looks, personality and the fact his boat resembles a coffin.

gao_dargon
August 10, 2009, 02:29 AM
if i recall correclty, Enel is based of Eminem

Renji88
August 10, 2009, 06:17 AM
sanji should be french in my opinion


in Italy, Enel is the name of our main electricity company
I don't know if it's only a coincidence or not, lol :tem

Roarchu
August 10, 2009, 11:28 AM
sanji should be french in my opinion


in Italy, Enel is the name of our main electricity company
I don't know if it's only a coincidence or not, lol :tem

Yeah I agree, Sanji would be french

and idk, he doesn't seem Italian to me, isn't the one that's Italian Borsalino...and Lucci? idk, I thought those were Italian names

Aikyet
August 10, 2009, 12:46 PM
Please make it clear what you want to do with this thread. Either to find Oda's characters' origins and inspirations or simply to joke about their nationality/ethnicity?
Because, you know, those are to totally different topics :)

Renji88
August 10, 2009, 02:56 PM
and idk, he doesn't seem Italian to me, isn't the one that's Italian Borsalino...and Lucci? idk, I thought those were Italian names

yes, lucci borsalino (and capone) are all italian names

our electricity company name is Enel, but it's an acronym.
it's a funny coincidence (or maybe not?) that Enel in one piece uses electricity :tem

Organizized
August 10, 2009, 04:28 PM
I'm going to assume it's about where they would be from in the real world because that's how I read the topic and "who they're based off" has been discussed endless times already.

Franky would be from Hawaii (or some tropical island). I mean, his speedos and hawaii shirt makes this obvious. Plus, he drinks Cola. Very handy on hot beaches and stuff. :tem
Chopper - North Pole, nuff said. :p

Gecko Moria
August 11, 2009, 03:18 PM
Please make it clear what you want to do with this thread. Either to find Oda's characters' origins and inspirations or simply to joke about their nationality/ethnicity?
Because, you know, those are to totally different topics :)

It's probably the first one: to find Oda's characters' origins and inspirations. Even if it isn't, let's make it that one because joking about their nationality isn't going to go anywhere :)

gao_dargon
August 11, 2009, 04:56 PM
franky is based on popeye and ace ventura

Lord Rayleigh
August 11, 2009, 06:26 PM
Dr Hogback is based on Frankenstein.

PS : Frankenstein is the doctor, not the monster.

Organizized
August 11, 2009, 07:55 PM
Some kinda obvious ones, then:

Chopper, being a blue-nosed reindeer is obviously inspired by Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (both were also shunned by the other reindeer and lived in a cold country and so forth).
Capone inspired by Al Capone (no, duh) at least by the name and the gangster theme.
Mihawk - Dracula (his name has yet to be romanized but I'm all for Dracule, not Juracule like many think). His boat is coffin-shaped with green candles on it (very gothic and vampires sleep in coffins).

Also, Sentoumaru is most likely based on Kintaro from a known japanese folklore. Kintaro is often portrayed with an axe and wrestles in quite a lot of the stories about him (fits Sentoumaru's looks). He is in some stories said to have wrestled bears and is sometimes portrayed riding/having tamed one (Sentoumaru seems to be pretty much in charge of the Kumabots so this matches as well).

http://i28.tinypic.com/2jcafpd.jpghttp://i26.tinypic.com/2eba6j6.png

Just compare these two images and you'll see there's nothing to argue about. :p

Lord Rayleigh
August 11, 2009, 08:17 PM
And Bakura, the black panther of the Kuja Kingdom is obviously based on the same named black panther of the Book of the jungle.

Imitorar
August 11, 2009, 10:09 PM
And Bakura, the black panther of the Kuja Kingdom is obviously based on the same named black panther of the Book of the jungle.
The one in The Jungle Book was spelled "Bagheera". I don't know if it was a romanization error or not, by Amazon Lily, but I never thought of that.

Also, Mihawk's design is heavily based off of the stereotypical portrayal of a musketeer. He looks EXTREMELY 1800's French army. Everyone notices the Dracula references, because the commonly accepted Romanization of his name is Dracule (though I've always favored Juraquille, since it kept both the French reference in the spelling, and the Dracula references in the pronunciation), but few ever mention that he's modeled of of the musketeers.

Also, I recommend that my old "Folkloric Inspirations for One Piece Characters" thread be merged into this one. Since they sort of cover the same topics. Although this thread should also come with a disclaimer that these "origins" are all conjecture, unless a valid source is cited.

Lord Rayleigh
August 12, 2009, 05:40 AM
The one in The Jungle Book was spelled "Bagheera". I don't know if it was a romanization error or not, by Amazon Lily, but I never thought of that.
Yes, Bagheera in The Jungle Book, my mistake


Also, Mihawk's design is heavily based off of the stereotypical portrayal of a musketeer. He looks EXTREMELY 1800's French army.
I agree about the musketeer aspect but why do you say extremely like 1800's French army ? The musketeer does not look like the 1800's French army (sans-culotte, the imperial army etc ...)
Here (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/plancy.objectif2000/mousquetaire.gif) is a kind of musketeer, here (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist255/la/sansculotte.jpg) a sans-culotte - a sans-culotte does not have an official uniform -, here (http://www.collection-figurines.com/images/figurine-miniature-spain-armee-napoleon-na-01.jpg) an infantryman of Napoleon's imperial army.
So, maybe it was a mistake. The musketeers belong to the Ancien Régime - which ends up in 1789 -, they were created during the XVIIth century.

PS : I could advise you a French book of Alexandre Dumas (the father, not the son), The Three Musketeers, which is more than well-known in France and which is fantastic.

Imitorar
August 12, 2009, 04:28 PM
I agree about the musketeer aspect but why do you say extremely like 1800's French army ? The musketeer does not look like the 1800's French army (sans-culotte, the imperial army etc ...)
Here (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/plancy.objectif2000/mousquetaire.gif) is a kind of musketeer, here (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist255/la/sansculotte.jpg) a sans-culotte - a sans-culotte does not have an official uniform -, here (http://www.collection-figurines.com/images/figurine-miniature-spain-armee-napoleon-na-01.jpg) an infantryman of Napoleon's imperial army.
So, maybe it was a mistake. The musketeers belong to the Ancien Régime - which ends up in 1789 -, they were created during the XVIIth century.

PS : I could advise you a French book of Alexandre Dumas (the father, not the son), The Three Musketeers, which is more than well-known in France and which is fantastic.
I did read The Three Musketeers, and I figured that it took place in the 1800s, when it was written. Which was stupid, now that I think about it, since there wasn't a French monarchy by the 1800s, and The Three Musketeers took place during the reign of Louis XIII, which was in the 1600s. So yes, consider that a mistake. A rather stupid one, on my part.

Lord Rayleigh
August 12, 2009, 06:16 PM
Which was stupid, now that I think about it, since there wasn't a French monarchy by the 1800s
Actually, there were two monarchies in France during the 1800's :facepalm : during the Restauration (that begins after Napoleon lost his position and that ends up in 1830 with the Revolution called the Trois Glorieuses - which inspired J. Fourastié for the name of the Trente Glorieuses (1945-1973) - and the Monarchy of July (that begins after another french noble of the ex-king's family was crown king in 1830 and that ends up in 1848, when the second french republic begins). :p

gao_dargon
August 12, 2009, 07:40 PM
even though your coments are quite interesting and insightfull,(more for an ignorant like myself) i recomend you stay on topic guys, =D

c0nflikt
August 12, 2009, 08:50 PM
What about luffy, no insight into his origin? or can we just go with goku lol

Imitorar
August 12, 2009, 09:14 PM
What about luffy, no insight into his origin? or can we just go with goku lol
The modern stock character of the action/adventure shonen protagonist does owe a lot to Goku. However, Luffy is very much his own character. Although, there is a page of Dragon Ball that has a character dressed similarly to Luffy (http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Imitorar/021.jpg), but it's just a cameo, and nobody knows for sure if that had ANYTHING to do with Oda's design. It may be just a coincidence, or it may have influence him sub-conciously. But the truth is, Luffy just doesn't seem to be a reference to anything in particular.

Also, has anybody mentioned yet that Robin (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/217/19/), when she first snuck onto the Going Merry (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/217/17/), looked very much like Mia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pulp_Fiction_Mia.jpg) f (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pulp_Fiction_Mia.jpg)rom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PulpFictionTwist.jpg) Pulp Fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_Fiction_%28film%29)? Because she did. And Oda has mentioned that he's a fan of Quentin Tarantino.

Roarchu
August 12, 2009, 10:14 PM
I already knew this thread existed, I just wanted to make a "what they would be in the real world"...i thought it was obvious. "Joke about ethnicity" what a hell?

oh well, whatever

I think Croco could also be Italian cuz he looks mafioso