The Future Arc Question Thread [Archive]

Slashout

September 19, 2007, 03:06 PM

I have been wondering about that for a while now.
But we know that since some went into the futur, they had their other-self sent into the past.

So we should have futur-Tsuna's body laying into his own room. Futur-Yamamoto in the bating range with a sword instead of a bat :p, and Gokudera, Kyoko, Haru, and Lambo somewhere nearby (We don't know if they are others yet).

So what now? Will they remain in the past doing nothing (besides enjoying tea and stuff since they can't anymore in the futur), waiting for Tsuna and their past selves, to patch things up in the futur?
I think that we will see a few chapters about them, they have to do something right? I wonder how it will fit in the story, but I think it will be too weird if they just did nothing.

Maybe they will (at least Gokudera) try to assassinate the young Sho-chan?

Koen

September 19, 2007, 03:24 PM

good question: something I am asking myself too. What'll be the role of the future guardians in the past. They'll certainly protect tsuna's mum :D

DrunkDragon

September 19, 2007, 03:51 PM

Im not sure if im right, but I thought that their future selfs were completely replaced with their past selfs. This could be true since when Reborn was sent into the future nothing came back to the past. Correct me if im wrong.

Slashout

September 19, 2007, 04:09 PM

I think nothing came back when Reborn was sent to the futur, because he did not existed at that time. Like he was reduced to dust or something. Or maybe something a little more "extravagant", we still don't know what is that "curse". Remember Tsuna was wondering "In that case, if nobody appears, that means..." but he could not come to the conclusion of Reborn not existing anymore.
But I am pretty sure they were replaced, otherwise, what would have happened to their futur self? Disapeared? Maybe died ?:s
There is one thing I am curious about, it's how are they going to hide Tsuna's body from his mother :D.

Ueda

September 19, 2007, 08:37 PM

If the bazooka was working properly, they should have get back in 5 minutes, AND they should have gone 10 years in the future, no 9 years and some months...

So, it wouldn't be strange if their future selfs were completely replaced by their younger selfs...

I don't think future Gokudera and Yamamoto went to the past. If so, the future Gokudera should have, at least, a whole day to prevent something from happening before Yamamoto and the others were thrown in the future...

Icingdeath

September 20, 2007, 12:01 AM

heheh I'm also curious about what happened to future Tsuna's body, as he was in his room when he got hit by the bazooka and so technically he should have switched places with his corpse of if it doesn't work that way he could be in the coffin with his future corpse. Now the thing about him switching with the corpse, we know that didnt happen cause Gokudera actually said he was in Tsuna's room when he got hit, so he should have noticed that there was a corpse of an older looking Tsuna before time travelling (and he's not like 1/2 the other crew thats oblivious to those things hehe).

Ueda

September 20, 2007, 01:22 AM

Actually, Gokudera wasn't in tsuna's room... He was arriving at Tsuna's house and then he was hit by something which flew through the window...

Obxist

September 20, 2007, 02:07 AM

LOL if they future guardians were smart, why don't they just kill Irie Shouichi at that time which is harmless ??? LOL

Koen

September 20, 2007, 07:34 AM

Do you have some certain unanswered questions regarding the current future arc then share them in this thread over here. This thread is useful to avoid the specific threads regarding some questions that might be (un) answered later in the near future

Shrimp

September 20, 2007, 07:52 AM

The translation I read kept the original japanese word, "okama", instead of "queer man" ; with the revelations in 161 (I think) that the Varia is on the move once again, I think it makes it clear that he was looking for Lussuria, but what do I know ? We may be surprised...

(edit to better express my thoughts, and for typo)

Koen

September 20, 2007, 08:03 AM

Koen

September 20, 2007, 08:06 AM

LOL if they future guardians were smart, why don't they just kill Irie Shouichi at that time which is harmless ??? LOL

Maybe because those damned cervello hided him somewhere safe? :)

Slashout

September 20, 2007, 08:09 AM

Yeah I was curious about that. And we still don't know what Hibird had to do with it... They just went back to the base to train with no mention to Hibird and Ryohei...
Looking for Lussuria and the Varia might be the reason yeah.. The varia should be in Italy, and not japan, and since Ryohei is "out of the country" Italy might be his destination... There is a high chance too. I don't think another country was ever mentioned in the manga. Just Japan and Italy (well maybe the US or something, but it was not really part of the main story). Plus Lussuria really was an okama :p.

edit : Oh well koenosaki beated me to it :p.

DrunkDragon

September 20, 2007, 08:11 AM

Ah, now that you mention it. Its possible that the okama is Lussuria. That thought never occured to me but he did act like one during the sun ring battle.

Koen

September 20, 2007, 08:18 AM

well, and in the spoiler of c162 hibird receives a foto of the meeting -> so maybe we'll see picture of THAT PERSON

Shrimp

September 20, 2007, 08:38 AM

Assuming the Cervello were allready on his side at that time, which, as was discussed in another topic, is one possibility among others.

Still, if they hid him in the past, that would mean they knew something was going to happen... and who could have told them that, except the mysterious figure that supposedly shot everyone with the bazooka ? This arc is getting more and more awesome each time we discuss a new element of it. I can't wait to see how everything will turn out (or should I say "turned out" ? Damn I can't stand these time travels ! ;) )

saskay

September 21, 2007, 08:05 AM

i belive that they wont do a single move, cuz, we are able to change the future but not what happend in the past, if all the 10 years older version do some "moves" in the past they may stop excisting on the future, just like 10 years old lambo sad before the thunder ring figth =(

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 09:24 AM

The thing is that Lambo was talking about an alternate futur.
So changing things in the past might not change anuthing in the futur Tsuna is.
And the futur where they are, even if they get rid of those attacking Vongola will probably stay a world where tsuna is dead, along with all their friends that where killed.

Well there is also the possibility of the futur being link to their time.
Well those time travel thing are always making things more complicate :p.

Shrimp

September 21, 2007, 09:37 AM

Yeah, you never know how the author wants to deal with time paradox, alternate timelines... Slashout, since you live in France, you should read "Universal War One", that's the comic that made me hate these things :p

saskay

September 21, 2007, 10:55 AM

i just saw it now, that 10 years older lambo didnt know about the vangola ring figth, but when 20 years old lambo shows up he knew about the figth and the words that gokudera wrote on the horns were there in the future.....so could lambo from 10 years olders know about some thing that he werent able to say to the youngers???

saskay

September 21, 2007, 11:04 AM

well lets start,
where i live(brasil) we are not allowed to use Sendspace or megaupload the most part of time and the raws links here at mangahelpers are using Sendspace =(
so i'm not able to keep reading after the chapter 153....

so i've those questions for you guys =D

1)they have figured why Older Tsuna destroide the Ring?
2)they (tsuna,gokudera,yamamoto) have become stronger? they are able to figth against their enemys now?
3)lambo(10 or 20 years older) showd up again?
4)they already found another Guardian or only Hibari?
5)Reborn is figthing or he cant leave the hideout??

those are the question...
and i've one request to anyone that could helpme....if you guys could upload the chapter after 153 to at mediafire i would be really greatfull ^^"

Obxist

September 21, 2007, 11:25 AM

1)they have figured why Older Tsuna destroide the Ring?
2)they (tsuna,gokudera,yamamoto) have become stronger? they are able to figth against their enemys now?
3)lambo(10 or 20 years older) showd up again?
4)they already found another Guardian or only Hibari?
5)Reborn is figthing or he cant leave the hideout??

as far as i am know okay LOL,.
1. Not yet but its mostly because the millefiore family is searching for it and maybe Tsuna thinks that it better to destroy to prevent something..
2. No not yet, they still yet learn how to use the box thats all,.. but they will be trained if i am not wrong,..
3. nope :D
4. just hibari as Ryohei is still in italy
5. he cant leave the hideout as u know :D

thats all my knowledge,.. but maybe kirimi could answer more for it :D

Koen

September 21, 2007, 12:12 PM

as far as i am know okay LOL,.
1. Not yet but its mostly because the millefiore family is searching for it and maybe Tsuna thinks that it better to destroy to prevent something..

I thought tsuna decided to destroy the rings after the varia arc. Was there anything said about millefiore? I thought they decided as a family to destroy the rings, but it was a reason why they are losing the battle in the future against millefiore. Of course coming in the future with your rings leaves an opportunity to both parties. But I don't think millefiore know the why, though we don't know what the meeting was about between +10 tsuna and millefiore -> maybe that's why they had plans to go back to -10 years, because they prolly saw tsuna without rings, etc

2. No not yet, they still yet learn how to use the box thats all,.. but they will be trained if i am not wrong,..

There's progression, they are training but atm they would die facing the ennemy

3. nope :D

nothing to add

4. just hibari as Ryohei is still in italy

yes, adding: ryohei is prolly meeting lussuria (because hana said he was going to meet an okama, gay) out of the country (and we know varia is still in italy)

5. he cant leave the hideout as u know :D

thats all my knowledge,.. but maybe kirimi could answer more for it :D

indeed, there's some anti-arcobaleno-rays in the future that kills them slightly. Though with giannini you never know

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 02:15 PM

Obxist

September 21, 2007, 02:22 PM

Tsuna decided to destroy the rings before the problem with millefior.
A war for the rings was near, and Tsuna decided to destroy them, as to prevent the war, and "to change Vongola". Even though some guardians were against it.

yeah thats what i mean even though i dont think its to prevents war, but Tsuna destroy it for somethings for sure,.. but for me i think this is still also a mystery,..

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 02:24 PM

Haha yeah Shrimp, I heard about it, I might as well read it then :p. I hope it's not too complicated :D.

so could lambo from 10 years olders know about some thing that he werent able to say to the youngers???
I think he did not hide it, he just did not have much time to talk about it with the fight, but the way he was talking, it was as if they were dead for quite some time. "i didn't think i would get to see you guys again. All your faces... how nostalgic... it's enough to move me to tears..."

Obxist

September 21, 2007, 02:33 PM

and again,.. do you think lambo bring the 10th year bazooka in his hair ?? they could ask gianini to repair it if he bring it LOL

Ueda

September 21, 2007, 03:04 PM

it would be soooooooooo fun if gokudera turns into a baby again lol...

Ueda

September 21, 2007, 03:07 PM

No... Tsuna destroyed the rings just because they were too dangerous and he sensed that sooner or later another battle would come, so he smashed them and throwed them away to prevent another ring battle... Yamamoto says that...

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 03:13 PM

Well that's what i said more or less ^^. Yamato also said something about "changing vongola".

Koen

September 21, 2007, 03:17 PM

it would be soooooooooo fun if gokudera turns into a baby again lol...

don't start with it because I'll start to re-watch that episode :D

Ueda

September 21, 2007, 03:19 PM

Man, the baby gokudera is sooooo fun!

Raijatsu

September 21, 2007, 03:21 PM

and cute just like the Tsuna flashbacks :luv I simply love chibis of normally badass characters

Ueda

September 21, 2007, 05:53 PM

and cute just like the Tsuna flashbacks :luv I simply love chibis of normally badass characters

I found very touching the scene that Tsuna sees when the ninth touches his forehead... =D

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 06:37 PM

I found very touching the scene that Tsuna sees when the ninth touches his forehead... =D

It was really great yeah :). I loved that scene, I read it at least 3 time in a row :D.

Koen

September 21, 2007, 07:08 PM

I found very touching the scene that Tsuna sees when the ninth touches his forehead... =D

Well I had the chills too when tsuna fought hibari. And he said he couldn't accept the maffia boss trial (or something like that). And then you see that SAD looking giotto (check my avatar) - vongola I - talking to tsuna -> goosebumps

Slashout

September 21, 2007, 07:20 PM

Well I had the chills too when tsuna fought hibari. And he said he couldn't accept the maffia boss trial (or something like that). And then you see that SAD looking giotto (check my avatar) - vongola I - talking to tsuna -> goosebumps

Really? When was that ? Oo I read the manga at least 10 times i'm sure i did not see that part c(O_o)D.

Edit: Ooooooh ! Ok in chapter 158 !! I was thinking of old chapter no Wonder that did not ring a bell.
That chapter (158) is the one i want to be translated the most !! Really really really ! I can't wait for a trans to come out, of for the scans to catch up.
I don't know what they are saying, but just looking at the raws, make me feels that it's "grandiose".

kirimi

September 21, 2007, 08:58 PM

1. Yamamoto did not say anything about changing the Vongola. That's a mis-translation in the BAA-Oozora release. ^^; The truth is, none of them are sure why Tsuna wanted to destroy the Vongola Rings. Yamamoto only guessed that Tsuna just wanted to avoid another battle for them. Also, the Rings were destroyed quite some time ago, long before war broke out with the Millefiore (which was only about 2 days before Tsuna came over to the future).

From the things other characters have said in later chapters, it sounds like the destruction of the Vongola Rings (when it happened) is pretty much public knowledge among the mafia.

4. Nobody said Ryouhei is in Italy. It's likely he went to meet Lussuria (unconfirmed) more than 14 days ago. Lussuria is probably with the rest of his Varia squad (unconfirmed) and Varia may be in Italy (unconfirmed). Did Ryouhei stay with them all this time? Has Ryouhei already been replaced whever he is? So... everything is still a guess.

It won't take long before Dokuro rejoins Tsuna and friends, I think. So, that's another guardian.

5. The reason why Reborn can't leave is because of a radiation that is deadly to the Arcobaleno. More information about this radiation hasn't been given but it's called the "non-7^3" radiation. Now that we know what 7^3 is, maybe the radiation is something caused by having part of the 7^3 destroyed/missing?

Ueda

September 21, 2007, 09:25 PM

It could be due to the dual Reborn's pacifier, since it seems that there are two of his pacifiers... ><

Obxist

September 21, 2007, 11:36 PM

Obxist

September 22, 2007, 03:53 AM

lol there is already trans for c158 on kirimi's site,. check the Index of reborn in this board,...

what do you mean by goosebumps ?

Slashout

September 22, 2007, 07:04 AM

Ho? I didn't know I only found 160 and 161 by Kirimi on the index. Guess i did not look well enough :).

Koen

September 22, 2007, 07:22 PM

lol there is already trans for c158 on kirimi's site,. check the Index of reborn in this board,...

what do you mean by goosebumps ?

goosebumps -> well it's like when you're could - your skins get bubbles and the hair goes up

Obxist

September 22, 2007, 11:13 PM

ah i knew it LOL,.. i thought there somethings other meanings of that word LOL

ctk3

September 24, 2007, 06:04 AM

Erm... Since we're in the topic of the ten years-thingy, I was wondering= Tsuna and gang are in the future right? So it has been a few days since they arrive at the future, so won't anyone notice them missing in the past time? I mean, won't Bianchi or Tsuna's mom feel weird that the house (which is usually full with kids) is now empty?

And why is Bianchi not shot by the 10-year bazooka?

Shrimp

September 24, 2007, 07:21 AM

I'm sure someone noticed they disappeared, after all everyone were looking for them (Tsuna and Reborn) when they (everyone else) were sent to the future. But it wouldn't be the first time they disappeared, and I'm sure Iemitsu has a nice alibi to give Nana (even if he doesn't know what happened either).

And why is Bianchi not shot by the 10-year bazooka?

Answer 1 : I think only the guardians were sent to the future... but it's true that Kyoko and Haru were sent too (and I-pin also), perhaps they just have been taken by mistake when they were close to Lambo and the others ?

Answer 2 : someone had to train Goku, right ? ;)

DrunkDragon

September 24, 2007, 07:28 PM

Mod Hijack

This is the thread where you can ask some basic questions about the future arc. Are there some mysteries you want to be explained, just post them here :)

[hr]
Ok What do you guys think of the reason why Future Tsuna died in the future? Here is my guess, I think Tsuna was "shot to death" by the Millefiore. He probably was that representative from the Vongola that was killed and got ambushed there thinking they were going to negotiate.

Now, what do you guys think happened to him?

Ueda

September 24, 2007, 08:17 PM

I don't think so, cause the guy who was sent to negotiate was in Italy, in the Italian Vongola Headquarters... well, it's just a thought...

Slashout

September 24, 2007, 08:36 PM

I think the reason tsuna died was because of an illeness or something. i don't think the mangaka would "kill" the Tsuna while he could fight at his current full power. Or it would be too heart breaking for me, if that was the case.

Though i am still not convinced that he is dead. Every time Tsuna asked directly to someone of that time (Goku, Yama for instance), they never said "you died," or "you are dead". But "I'm sorry" or something. reborn might just hide the fact that he was not "killed" to motivate him. He might just be frozzen or something I don't know. Beside, if he was dead, wouldn't his grave be buried? His grave was on top of the ground, like Cinderela :p.

Ueda

September 24, 2007, 10:10 PM

Actually, Gamma says that Tsuna was shot to death (I think Gamma said that).. in one of the chapter that haven't been scanlated yet... Well... it's a spoiler, and there is a tag in the title of the topic, so, whatever I say here, I won't even bother to put the spoiler tag...

Slashout

September 24, 2007, 10:28 PM

Yeah but he is not close to Tsuna, he is even an ennemy, maybe what he knews was not the total truth, maybe they "hid" him (Tsuna)because he was in danger, because of an injury so important that he could not move himself or something. And I doubt with the "hunt" those milefiore guy are doing, they would let them bury the boss of Vongola after killing him. They would probably take Tsuna's body, hang it somewhere to scare the rest of the Vongola or something.
Well I know that it's a bit far fetched, but, I am convinced there is something weird going on with his death.

kirimi

September 24, 2007, 10:51 PM

From the way Gamma said it, and the way Yamamoto and Gokudera of the future reacted, I'm almost certain Tsuna was gunned down, probably right in front of those two.

Ueda

September 25, 2007, 12:42 AM

From the way Gamma said it, and the way Yamamoto and Gokudera of the future reacted, I'm almost certain Tsuna was gunned down, probably right in front of those two.

That's what I was thinking too... And probably by someone they judged that wasn't a threat... Cause we all know that the young Yamamoto could have saved Tsuna, if he wanted. If you look at the first training that Reborn gave to him, you'll see that he dodges bullets and everything...

Shrimp

September 25, 2007, 03:34 AM

There's also something strange in what Lal said during their fight, when they first met : "Even at my full strength, I still can't beat your fighting power, but... only at the old levels." I thought that meant that Tsuna actually became weaker during these 10 years. And also, she seemed surprised to see him use the Zero Point Breakthrough, so that makes me think that perhaps in that timeline, he didn't acquire all the powers he gained during the Varia arc, or somehow lost them (don't ask, I'm only making wild asumptions). And that would explain how he could have been shot.

But then, when Hibari "trained" him, he told Tsuna that he was the only one who made him feel the same way than Reborn... and so that means that he indeed was pretty powerfull. So I don't really know. I don't even know what that has to do with the subject. Well, whatever.

Slashout

September 25, 2007, 03:45 AM

I think by old level, she meant the level before the boxes appeared. ^^
Since the power and fighting ability you gain from the boxes is suposedly great.

Icingdeath

September 25, 2007, 05:40 AM

Alright I don't know how many of you actually picked up on this your first read through (for those that also switched between raws and translations) but I just realized when I read Ueda's scan of chpt 152 (thanks to Ueda, Obxist and Kirimi for the work on these recent releases of the current arc) that when future Hana was talking about Ryohei meeting an Okama overseas I didn't think until now that she probably meant he was meeting up with Lussuria of the Varia.

The reason I find think this is hilarious is the fact that I had also re-read chpt 107 today (KEFI's version, again thanks for the work on the chapters) which contains the omakes of that volume in which they have an omake page each dedicated to a few of the Varia members (iirc it was Squalo, Lussuria, Levi-a-than and Belphagor) in which Lussuria's page had them talking about how he was a character that was an Okama, a pervert and easily forgotten heh.

also out of curiosity did anyone else manage to make that connection from future Hana's reference to the Okama ?

Slashout

September 25, 2007, 05:54 AM

Hahaha yeah totaly, I read that part recently too, and I thought the same :D.
And for the reference yeah :). Kirimi cleared it up for us in another thread I think ^^. I can't remember wich though.

Icingdeath

September 25, 2007, 06:16 AM

heheh you're right,
it was mentioned in the "saskay have some questions =(" Thread hehe, and while everyone is saying its a guess, its the most accurate one we have seeing as the only Okama I remember poping up so far is Lussuria hehe.

Obxist

September 25, 2007, 06:54 AM

From the way Gamma said it, and the way Yamamoto and Gokudera of the future reacted, I'm almost certain Tsuna was gunned down, probably right in front of those two.

yeah , when this arc start ,.. gokudera say sorry maybe because of this,.. and then yep gamma said that its in c153 which now is halfway done by me LOL :D

Ueda

September 25, 2007, 02:39 PM

Remember that Tsuna doesn't have any boxes with the sky attribute? At least I think he didn't have it, by the way that Hibari says to him that he doesn't have to worry, cause he thinks there are sky boxes... well... you got the picture...

Koen

September 25, 2007, 03:54 PM

gamma indeed told about tsuna being shot, we'll prolly know more later on this arc...

what suprises me more: the fact the black spell and white spell really don't like each other (from iries part)

NightGaunt

September 26, 2007, 06:17 AM

i think the future guardians shot the present guardians in order to assemble the rings to future in order to kill byakuran...

ctk3

September 26, 2007, 07:10 AM

i think the future guardians shot the present guardians in order to assemble the rings to future in order to kill byakuran...

Yeah, that seem logical too. But when Tsuna first arrived in the future, Gokudera was shocked to find him. Yamamoto was surprised too, so it's kinda hard to imagine their future selves planning to bring the present selves.

However, Byakuran DOES seem to know about their present selves, so he may be behind them being send to the future.

That aside, I stilll don't understand why no one shoot Bianchi (in the present time). It would seem beneficial for the enemy of the future if every guardian (or maybe every strong Vongola member) were to be replaced by their past selves. I mean, present family members ought to be weaker than their future selves, right?

KatouYue

September 26, 2007, 07:52 AM

I believe, the future guardians are either unexistant in the past - like, they're alternatives, not completely real, and they've become alternatives the moment Tsuna and Co went to the future; or they do not attempt to do anything, for it will cause another timeline, and god only knows what might happen to Tsuna and the others while they're in that future... Some kind of time loop or something, I think.
And the reason that the 10-year bazooka sent everyone not 10 years in the future, but 9 years and some months, I believe that it's to set another time limit. And once the 10 years will be completed... something might happen. Like, everyone might die (so they'd better hurry up with uniting the Guardians and getting back)... or something global might happen.

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 09:16 AM

I think the "everyone might die" is a bit too much. I think if something along those line were to happen, it might be that they would be stuck in this time, and won't be able to go back to their time after the 10 year passed, or they would be replaced by their old safe, and then disapear or something.

Recently I thought of something too.
Maybe it's Byakuran's fault that they were sent into the futur. I've been thinking about that, since he seemed to know that they were here in the futur.
That's why maybe if they were to defeat him (probably by Tsuna's hand, thought it doesn't matter who would I think), they would be sent back to their time. Since it might be him, from the futur that made they come to this time (maybe thanks to Sho-chan's research?). And if he were defeated, he would not be able to, and they would be sent back after the normal 10 minutes of the bazooka.
But that would imply that there is only one futur. Too bad, if lambo was not replaced by his young self, we would have know, since he would have probably said something like "this time it's the other way around, you are the one to visit me" or something if he was the lambo that came to Tsuna in the past.

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 09:22 AM

I think that this timeline is pretty similar to what happened to Trunks, in DBZ (Cell Saga), but the other way round. And it's even a Physics Theory. If we were to time travel, we would disrupt things, and create infinite timelines, no one being the real one, but no one being the unreal one too. They would exist at the same time, in parallel universes.

So, if they turn back to their own time, they could change the future for them, and avoid all these battles. But there would still exist a future where Tsuna, Reborn and the others are dead and the Vongola were defeated.

Is it clear? Well, sorry if I wasn't very clear, but I've got some physics theory classes last week, and this subject was brought up by a classmate, and my professor explained it all.

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 09:33 AM

Yeah, I talked about the dbz analogy too somewhere :). But it depends what the mangaka would choose. He might go for that theory, or for a single time line. Or for different time line in wich you can travel in between. There are a lot of possibility.
But yeah don't worry it was clear ;).

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 09:39 AM

kirimi

September 26, 2007, 10:05 AM

I'm 99.99% certain that Byakuran (and Irie Shouichi by association) are directly responsible for sending the Guardians into the future. Otherwise, they won't be so anxious about *them* being *here* and all this talk about waiting for the younger versions to appear.

I noticed something today... While I can't say for sure what happened to Gokudera and Yamamoto when they were replaced, I'm sure that the Tsuna corpse, at least, did not appear in the past.

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1183245_REBORN16048.gif

This is the "gag" image after ch 136 in the tankoubon (vol 16) right after Tsuna crossed over to the future. He disappeared too.

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 10:06 AM

It's an interesting theory... I like it... And Einstein liked it too lol... =P

Yeah I know :). I graduated in science and physics. (Bac S in my country)
But when you know that in the US around 20% of the people believe the Sun revolves around the earth.... even if it's comon knowledge that it is the earth that revolve around the sun, you start to think that eveything is possible lol :).

--------

Oh, not bad noticing that Kirimi ! :).

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 10:11 AM

I'm an engineer. So, these kinds of theorys is kinda popular here (all engineers are a little bit crazy bout this kind of stuff).

BTW, I live in Brazil and I study at São Paulo University (USP). Maybe I'm going to France next year, to get an international experience. Maybe in one of the Écoles there... =P

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 10:22 AM

Wow you are an engineer at 22? Congratz man !

By ther way I noticed something, Hibari saying in th last chapter scanlated by Ueda "I am not so stupid... as to be replaced of course".
I wonder if it was random boasting, or if he remembers it from his past?

Shrimp

September 26, 2007, 10:26 AM

Well, he said he studies at Sao Paulo, so either it's a mistake and this sentence should have been in the past, or he's just an engeneering student ;) If that's the former... yeah according to french standarts that's pretty good ^^

(and sorry for the off-topic, it's all Slash's fault !)

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 10:29 AM

Aaahh don't make it all my fault :D.
Besides I tried to hide the off-topic with this part

By ther way I noticed something, Hibari saying in th last chapter scanlated by Ueda "I am not so stupid... as to be replaced of course".
I wonder if it was random boasting, or if he remembers it from his past?
But looks like I was still caugh :D.

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 10:41 AM

Aaahh don't make it all my fault :D.
Besides I tried to hide the off-topic with this part
But looks like I was still caugh :D.

But I will finish it in December, so, yes, I'll be an engineer with 22 years... =D

And the last chapter wasn't scanlated by me. It was some guy named Manu... =)

Davorus

September 26, 2007, 02:30 PM

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 02:36 PM

If he was shot down that means even ten year later his physical abilities were great only when he was in the dying will mode.
I wonder if one day he'll be able to fight by himself without the dying will. Though the dying will can be called a fighting technique. But he still needs outside help for it, Reborn or the dying will pills.

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 03:16 PM

For now... We don't know for sure if the older Tsuna needed it to get to the Dying Will. If I remember correctly, Hibari says to Tsuna when he gets the X Gloves, that he finally is resembling the older Tsuna, who gives him thrills like reborn did. So, I really think the old Tsuna is GREAT. To get respect from Hibari, you gotta be GREAT.

NightGaunt

September 26, 2007, 09:55 PM

Ueda

September 26, 2007, 09:58 PM

Slashout

September 26, 2007, 10:12 PM

NightGaunt

September 27, 2007, 09:07 PM

There is also this possibility :
Since Lambo said he did not remember fighting as a child there, it might just mean litteraly what he says, he just do not remember.
The Lambo child went there not knowing that it was a battle place, he thought it was a playground, the child did not know about the ring at that time. So for him it was probably just a weird moment of his life were he got beat up more than usual. :D
That might be why the 10 year later Lambo was not remembering anything about that time...
but, Lambo 20 years remember that Gokudera wrote 'dumb cow' on his horn....
so, i think that maybe when Lambo 20 years sayin bout memory of the battle, he is actually refering to when his young 10 years old were summoned for the battle

Slashout

September 27, 2007, 09:26 PM

Well for the horn part, of course he remembers, at that time baby lambo was concious. And he saw goku write it :). He still did not know it was a battle at that time. He did not know later on either.
He went on thinking it was some kind of attraction, got it by the thunder, and then directly sumoned his older self. So there was no way he could have thought it was a battle ^^. At least that's what I think :).

Rainier

September 27, 2007, 10:14 PM

Talking about the ''Dumb-cow'' message, Adult Lambo said something like ''And those rude words Gokudera-shi wrote''

What does -shi means?

Slashout

September 27, 2007, 11:12 PM

I would like to know too :).
I tried looking around a bit like on wikipedia, or somewhere where honorific were listed. But I had no luck :(.

kirimi

September 27, 2007, 11:26 PM

氏 (-shi) is "Mister" where it specifically refers to a person's surname.

It's different from -さん (-san) which really has no direct translation, but translators usually approximate it with "Mr." as the closest thing. As you may know, -san is not always used only with the surname.

Depending on the context, I would sometimes omit -san entirely, but I would never omit -shi.

Ueda

September 27, 2007, 11:30 PM

hmmm nice... =)

Slashout

September 27, 2007, 11:53 PM

Hoo thanks Kirimi :). And the explanation for the real meaning was pretty nice too, I understand way better with that one.

NightGaunt

October 16, 2007, 09:04 AM

is Gamma dead? and what happen to his Mare Ring? also what happen to his boxes?

Ueda

October 16, 2007, 02:39 PM

You could have asked this in the Spoilers and Discussion thread... =)

But, no one knows. He is probably dead, and Hibari probably took his boxes and his ring. But it's what we think happened. It was never said in the manga what really happened to him and his ring and boxes...

Impel Down

October 16, 2007, 03:12 PM

Gamma's dead, and Hibari, I think, just left his ring, since he said "I have no use for a Thunder Ring".

Slashout

October 16, 2007, 03:30 PM

It would be cool if he really was dead. It would be an approach a bit more mature for the manga. Wich would mach with the current arc quite well.
I mean, I can't see how they would be able to get out of this without killing anyone. Besides if Tsuna still do not want to kill his ennemies in this set up, with most of his friend killed, and the Vongola hunted down. It would be a big let down for me.

Impel Down

October 16, 2007, 03:35 PM

http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn%21/154/17/

That looks dead to me. And Tsuna can just freeze his opponents solid, couldn't he?

Ueda

October 16, 2007, 03:41 PM

http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn%21/154/17/

That looks dead to me. And Tsuna can just freeze his opponents solid, couldn't he?

The thing is. He appears to be dead. But we don't know, since NOTHING was shown after that. Only showed them helping out the beaten Yamamoto and Gokudera.

I, too, think that gamma is dead. But, till now, the Vongola didn't kill anyone. So, we really don't know what really happened.

Impel Down

October 16, 2007, 05:08 PM

Ueda

October 16, 2007, 05:48 PM

Considering they're a mafia family, I'm quite sure they killed people. I mean, the Varia have admitted to killing people, and they're with the Vongolas. Just none were killed by the main characters, is all.

I meant Tsuna and his guardians... Tsuna, Goku, Yamamoto, Ryohei, Lambo, Hibari and Chrome/Mukuro. They haven't killed anyone till Hibari kills Gamma. I really think he is dead. But I wish I knew what happened to gamma's ring.

spaz

October 16, 2007, 06:50 PM

Hes pretty much dead he was stabbed through the neck.

Impel Down

October 16, 2007, 07:58 PM

Not to mention through all his back and whatnot. But yeah, the main characters haven't killed anyone (yet), of course! They're the "good guys", they don't kill!

...although I think Gokudera may have killed Leviathan.

Rainier

October 16, 2007, 08:48 PM

We can't be sure if he's dead or not, remember Squalo? The dude was eaten by a giant fish monster.

I'd be gald if they'd kill some people though, after all, we are talking about ''Mafia'' here.

Koen

October 17, 2007, 05:56 AM

Well the only thing we know is that he was defeated, bit if the defeat also mean his death is something we don't know yet. I hope he isn't dead because he and glo are A rank fighters and If I remember correct (srry if I am wrong, both black and white spell have three) there's a total of 6. If these guys are already defeated then I hope stronger millefiore allies pop up to make it our guardians more difficult

Impel Down

October 17, 2007, 12:36 PM

Well, it's not like Gamma and Glo weren't strong. And the only "stronger allies", really, are Uni and Byakuran. Each guardian will probably be able to fight one A Rank captain, though, if you don't count Uni/Byakuran and Tsuna.

Sorata

October 17, 2007, 01:18 PM

I think he´s dead, that way the manga as take another step up in maturity, and his death was also to prove that Hibari is the strongest guardian, the other A ranks will probably fight the other guardians, if Hibari fights again will probably the boss. Hibari is researching on the box´s so i think he took them, and the ring, he left it.

Impel Down

October 17, 2007, 02:53 PM

DrunkDragon

October 17, 2007, 03:57 PM

Hibari fight the boss? I hope not. That's Tsuna's position. I mean, I really thought they were streching it when Muruko was beaten by Hibari.

And to say that Hibari is the strongest guardian because he defeated an A-Rank member, Chrome did too, remember.

Chrome didnt really defeat Glo, Mukuro did or with his help and without it she would have probably been beaten by Glo. Plus when did Hibari beat Mukuro? I thought it was the other way around.

Impel Down

October 17, 2007, 04:44 PM

It was, but then Hibari came back and beat up Muruko, then passed out, and Muruko used the Possession Bullet.

And Chrome made Mukuro, Ken, and Chikusa, so technically, she won.

Sorata

October 17, 2007, 05:00 PM

Hibari is Tsuna´s strongest guardian(page 12, chapter 141 http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn%21/141/12/) period.

And when i said that Hibari would fight the boss i didn´t mean beat him just fight him, nothing more. When Hibari fougth Mukuro, he would have beatten him if Shamall didn´t put the sakura desease on him.

Impel Down

October 17, 2007, 05:02 PM

Yes, of course he's the strongest of Tsuna's guardians.

But I see what you mean now. Yeah, I'd like that ONLY because I want to see Hibari be beaten. Badly.

DrunkDragon

October 20, 2007, 03:08 AM

Haha! yeah I came to that conclusion too after reading a different thread in this sub forum cant remember which though.

~ Merged the two threads since they're the same topic.
[hr]
It has been confirmed with chapter 166 that Ryohei was in fact meeting with the Varia :D

Impel Down

October 20, 2007, 09:48 AM

I don't remember him ever mentioning visiting an okama, but if he did, and he was with the Varia, then it was probably Lussuria.

alexlw92

October 24, 2007, 02:26 AM

it was the varia. although not specified which one, or all of them,

Satarak

October 31, 2007, 11:35 AM

We all want 10YL Tsuna to be alive, but everyone from the future is pretty sure he died.

Ueda

October 31, 2007, 06:57 PM

10-y-later Tsuna is pretty damn dead... If he wasn't, why the hell was he in a coffin? He became a vampire? I don't think so. You know, everyone that was replaced, was replaced EXACTLY where the future self was, so we can assume that Tsuna was REALLY dead, or he became a Vampire, or he has some strange likings when it comes to sleeping habits...

Slashout

October 31, 2007, 08:11 PM

I for one, don't believe he is dead.
Unlike what every one said, they are many strange things that don't add up.
Aren't they cremating (is this the good term?) the bodies in japan? Why is the coffin on the ground? Did they put his coffin on some kind of pedetral, to make him into a god or something? ^^
Why was the top of the coffin open (by that I mean, there was no nail used)? So that like Ueda say he can get out at night to get his fix of blood? :p

But also, Tsuna is asking Goku why he is in a coffin. The answer is "That is... because...". Poof he goes back to the past without finishing his sentence. Why? Is there a need for suspence if Tsuna was really dead, as the coffin is pretty obviously hinting that? .
Chapter 140; Tsuna : "So that mean I am..." Tsuna can't finish his sentence and say the word "dead" because goku attack Yama. Goku says after that: "Why is the 10th like that?". It leads to confusion. Because to those that would know/think the 10th is dead, it would mean "why is he dead?" Like for Tsuna and Goku that are convinced of it. But if as I think, he is not really dead, then you can get to other conclusion like it might have been the case with Yama, because once more the word "dead" was not used...
And the list is pretty long.
Why wasn't his death told to Kyoko, Haru? They could have made up a lie if they didn't want to tell them he was killed by a sniper. Isn't Kyoko really close to him in the futur if we refer to the way she called him? She ought to know that he died...
Also no one close to adult Tsuna that we know of and that was present in the futur, ever said the word "dead".
That's why I am really not convinved of his death. I believe the mangaka has something up her sleave. Just like she did with Mukuro's lost against glo.
Well that's just my opinion that I made up after all those "indecisive clues" the mangaka left us. :)

I am sorry Kirimi, I am out of topic, please don't whip me !

*whips everyone!* I've moved your posts to the correct thread. ^_^

Ueda

October 31, 2007, 08:30 PM

Not at all. Not everyone is cremated in Japan. It depends... But almost everyone is cremated. At least this is what my grandma says... And there is some time before the cremation. For what they say, I can assume that not many hours have passed since Tsuna is shot. If you think about it, only those closer to Tsuna knows something 'bout it. Kyoko, for example, knows nothing about it.

And, if you read everything again, you'll see that Tsuna was shot (according to Gamma) and, probably, in front of Yamamoto and Gokudera. If he wasn't dead, why the hell was he in a coffin!? For fun!? It doesn't make any sense at all. Also, Fuuta says that in this era, both Tsuna-nii and Reborn are DEAD. So, my conclusion is that Tsuna is really dead. And the way Yamamoto and Gokudera react to Tsuna being well and alive is really somthing... I don't know what you think about their reaction, but I really think they are EXTREMELY sorry 'bout something.

About Kyoko, if you read the part where she meets Hana, you'll see that she was out of her house even before Ryohei went to Italy, so she wouldn't know anything about Tsuna being dead, since she wasn't in touch with everyone.

Rainier

October 31, 2007, 09:06 PM

I think he's dead, but I also think he planned to die...He planned the whole Future Arc, he is the puppetmaster.

kirimi

October 31, 2007, 09:28 PM

Adding to Ueda's points, don't forget that many people (especially Japanese) don't like to say the word "die/dead", especially in front of the person who is... well, not dead. It's kind of bad luck. So, I don't think the author is deliberately dodging the issue. The dialogue has to be natural.

The more inconcistencies appear, the more I buy into the theory that the future Vongola (especially Tsuna) are involved a lot more deeper. But, even if he planned the whole thing, I still believe Tsuna's death was not intended. It's too sad, otherwise. ._. Why would Tsuna do that to his two closest friends?

Sherlock Holmes

October 31, 2007, 10:22 PM

Ueda

November 01, 2007, 12:31 AM

Something weird...I can't really remember the first chapter in the future arc,but didn't Gokudera get hit in the same place as tsuna,in his house? Then,wouldn't him see 10-Year tsuna's body? Sorry if I forgot the reason for that,I can't really remember those chapters..(I gotta read the future arc all over again,probably haha)

If you don't exist in the future, you won't be replaced in your own time. Tsuna wasn't replaced in his own time. We just don't know if it is because he was dead or because there was a malfunction in the 10 years bazooka. You gotta remember too that if the bazooka was functioning right, Tsuna should be back in his own time in 5 minutes, but that didn't happen.

Kirimi is right. The old people in my family never speaks about dying or about death in front of people. I don't know why, but they just don't like to do it.

Sherlock Holmes

November 01, 2007, 02:21 AM

If you don't exist in the future, you won't be replaced in your own time. Tsuna wasn't replaced in his own time. We just don't know if it is because he was dead or because there was a malfunction in the 10 years bazooka. You gotta remember too that if the bazooka was functioning right, Tsuna should be back in his own time in 5 minutes, but that didn't happen.

Kirimi is right. The old people in my family never speaks about dying or about death in front of people. I don't know why, but they just don't like to do it.

maybe the 10-year bazooka had a special function that let people stay more than 5 minutes,but you need to use Dying will in order to activate that...ok maybe not. I just think that there was a better reason for not going back to the past. I mean staying at the future more time sounds like an advantage to me. Lambo lost his fight because of the 10-year bazooka time limit.

Ueda

November 01, 2007, 02:34 AM

maybe the 10-year bazooka had a special function that let people stay more than 5 minutes,but you need to use Dying will in order to activate that...ok maybe not. I just think that there was a better reason for not going back to the past. I mean staying at the future more time sounds like an advantage to me. Lambo lost his fight because of the 10-year bazooka time limit.

Tsuna wasn't in the dying will mode... neither was Reborn, Goku, Yamamoto, Lambo, I-pin, Kyoko, Haru and Chrome. If you look at chapter 136, you'll see that there is someone stalking Tsuna, Reborn and Lambo, so I think it was this person who made all this happen... Dunno though, what happened...

Shariq

November 01, 2007, 03:56 AM

Tsuna wasn't in the dying will mode... neither was Reborn, Goku, Yamamoto, Lambo, I-pin, Kyoko, Haru and Chrome. If you look at chapter 136, you'll see that there is someone stalking Tsuna, Reborn and Lambo, so I think it was this person who made all this happen... Dunno though, what happened...

This 'stalker' was around since the Varia ring battle Arc and I think they are first shown in chapter 99 there was more than one person there and the man says "You didn't change at all Sawada Tsunayoshi" and His ring is also shown, though not clearly. I believe it was from someone in the future because the stalker is an adult and with a mafia ring and seems to know him.

kirimi

November 01, 2007, 04:05 AM

This 'stalker' was around since the Varia ring battle Arc and I think they are first shown in chapter 99 there was more than one person there and the man says "You didn't change at all Sawada Tsunayoshi" and His ring is also shown, though not clearly. I believe it was from someone in the future because the stalker is an adult and with a mafia ring and seems to know him.

Good theory, but no. ^_^ The person in the shadows in ch 99 is the Mist Guardian (aka Chrome), and the mafia ring is clearly a half Vongola Ring. Of course she speaks as if she knows him because it's really Mukuro speaking.

Shariq

November 01, 2007, 04:37 AM

Good theory, but no. ^_^ The person in the shadows in ch 99 is the Mist Guardian (aka Chrome), and the mafia ring is clearly a half Vongola Ring. Of course she speaks as if she knows him because it's really Mukuro speaking.

Then, I must have missed it.

Koen

November 29, 2007, 09:52 AM

Well,

I made a poll on the whereabouts of mukuro.

mukuro fought byakuran trying to get more information. He was simply defeated and he couldn't escape the base.

~ I've edited out the spoiler. Please respect the spoiler rule, thanks!

Oni_James

November 29, 2007, 10:23 AM

i think Mukuro is dead, but don't forget we're talking about the TYL Mukuro, the past Mukuro is still alive...i think XD

Impel Down

November 29, 2007, 11:26 AM

I hope he lives because/so

A) Chrome doesn't have to make illusionary organs forever

B) He's cool

C) I want to see what his boxes were

Slashout

November 29, 2007, 01:38 PM

Hmmm, I edited my post because it contained a bit of spoiler of the last chapter without me really noticing it. I'll wait a few days, until the scans is out to talk about it, since I need to talk of something in this week chapter to explain my opinion on this topic ^^.

Raijatsu

November 30, 2007, 12:33 AM

unless byaku found a way to kill Mukuro's mind together with Guido he's alive but we can't be certain how this chamber exactly worked

Satarak

November 30, 2007, 07:19 AM

Indeed, for all we know, Mukuro is now possesing a potted plant. Byakuran only said that no thought could leave the room. We can assume that without a suitable body, Mukuro can't exist in this world, but we don't know that for sure. He might be traped in the room, but he might not be dead.

Koen

November 30, 2007, 07:58 AM

You know, I am thinking about the marmon vs mukuro fight. Marmon could not defeat mukuro and we all thought he killed marmon merciless. But still marmon reserved a bit energy to survive. Maybe mukuro did it too. Remember the guy is an illusionist and maybe there is a mist even byakuran can not see through...

So my guess: mukuro is still alive though trapped. He can not escape but he is strong enough to deceive byakuran thinking him being dead

Slashout

December 02, 2007, 08:50 AM

I guess I can say what I couldn't in my previous post since the chapter is scanlated. It contains spoiler from the chapter 172 so I'll put it between spoiler tag.
Mukuro is still alive. Why? Because Gamma is still alive. The mangaka couldn't even kill one enemy. And that enemy was even fighting THE Hibari. If Hibari didn't kill him then who on the family would kill someone ? They are in this cruel futur, where all of there lifes are wanted by a few peoples that only want them dead, and they still won't even kill any of those enemies to defend themselves.

The fact that she left him alive, like in most shonen, just make the manga easier to predict. There is probably some task left for Gamma (to justify the fact that he isn't dead), but I doubt it was absolutly necessary. He also fought against adult Hibari who was "serious" and got wounded a bit. It's not like he lost to the young vogola because they had luck, or that he wasn't cautious. So his strengh was real, there is nothing more to prove by keeping him alive.

Well I am making a big deal out of this but I am really disapointed :(, this arc is more mature, more cruel, and that's the second enemy that get's away by being extremely wounded (if we do not count Gamma's "brothers" as they were just knocked out, and since they aren't really important anyway). I can understand for Glo (he was needed for the tracking device), but is it going to be the same for every enemy ? "They just beat them up" ?

We should not forgot that Byakuran's answer to Sho-chan was weird, when Sho-chan asked if Mukuro was dead "I supose so", and when SHo-chan asked for what he meant by this, Byakuran just brushed away the question and changed subject.

Witchchild

December 15, 2007, 01:06 PM

Ok What do you guys think of the reason why Future Tsuna died in the future? Here is my guess, I think Tsuna was "shot to death" by the Millefiore. He probably was that representative from the Vongola that was killed and got ambushed there thinking they were going to negotiate.

Now, what do you guys think happened to him?

I, too, think that he was indeed the one gunned down during negotiations. He's not the type to let others get hurt if he can help it. Likely he went out to negotiate while in Dying Will Mode with Yamamoto and Gokudera to protect the other people within the Headquarters. Tsuna trusts in his friends and he sometimes gets pretty cocky when in Hyper Dying Will Mode. It's probable that luring him out was the only purpose of pretending to sit down and negotiate.

So, he goes out to negotiate, thinking that they can't touch him through his flame shield. The enemy no doubt came prepared for Tsuna's abilities, though. Considering the Dark Slicer could eat his flames, it's likely they had bullets that could too. He probably laughs at the enemies' gun since he thinks he can just melt the bullets...and BAM! Dead before he can realize his mistake.

However, it's also possible that he WAS gunned down in a different way, but put himself into stasis with the Zero-Point Breakthrough before true death. Only problem: No rings to unfreeze him. So, to protect his body until they find a way to free him, they smuggle him in a coffin and hide the coffin in the forest around Namimori. And telling everyone he's dead is to keep the enemy from looking for him. "The best way to trick your enemy is to trick your ally". As for Gokudera's grief-stricken look....well, he let Tsuna get hurt. This is Gokudera we're talking about.

Who knows? LOL there's a bunch of possibilities.

Kazuo Kiyoshi

February 03, 2008, 01:12 PM

I, too, think that he was indeed the one gunned down during negotiations. He's not the type to let others get hurt if he can help it. Likely he went out to negotiate while in Dying Will Mode with Yamamoto and Gokudera to protect the other people within the Headquarters. Tsuna trusts in his friends and he sometimes gets pretty cocky when in Hyper Dying Will Mode. It's probable that luring him out was the only purpose of pretending to sit down and negotiate.

So, he goes out to negotiate, thinking that they can't touch him through his flame shield. The enemy no doubt came prepared for Tsuna's abilities, though. Considering the Dark Slicer could eat his flames, it's likely they had bullets that could too. He probably laughs at the enemies' gun since he thinks he can just melt the bullets...and BAM! Dead before he can realize his mistake.

However, it's also possible that he WAS gunned down in a different way, but put himself into stasis with the Zero-Point Breakthrough before true death. Only problem: No rings to unfreeze him. So, to protect his body until they find a way to free him, they smuggle him in a coffin and hide the coffin in the forest around Namimori. And telling everyone he's dead is to keep the enemy from looking for him. "The best way to trick your enemy is to trick your ally". As for Gokudera's grief-stricken look....well, he let Tsuna get hurt. This is Gokudera we're talking about.

Who knows? LOL there's a bunch of possibilities.

Sorry to revive a deadish thread. But there seems to be a lot of holes in that statement. :P

But that negotiation doesn't seem right. Yamamoto said Millefiore wouldn't negotiate. And he said "the poor guy was killed." He wouldn't call Tsuna POOR GUY, now would he?

+ Yamamoto said Vongola summoned a SPOKESMAN. So someone must've negotiated with them, instead of Tsuna.

And if Tsuna did negotiate. Where the heck is his hyper intuition then? Has it gone to sleep at that moment? Or even has it still not been awaken, even when in Dying Will? Even if he had hyper intuition. He should've known if they were lying, if they started the negotiation.

I think Tsuna got gunned down in two ways, probably an ambush and it was a bad time for him. Yeah. Who knows. Or it was a hit and run.

Blossomtree

February 06, 2008, 01:42 PM

hmm.. i don't think is neither dead or alive...O_O well i'm not sure untill it's confirm. I just feel that with 10 years of experience, and being able to give hibari a thrill in those times would mean that tsuna wouldn't be killed so easily, especially the theory of being gunned down. Maybe someone powerful in the millefiore knows something that everybody doesn't know. If tsuna did died i'd assume he got gunned down when protecting someone.

Also when the older versions of people go back to the past, they're staying there for quite awhile. I wonder what they're doing< unless gokudera in the future acually tries to assainate Irie in the future. Because that's when he told tsuna to do when they met.

Kazuo Kiyoshi

February 07, 2008, 01:25 AM

Impel Down

February 07, 2008, 10:50 AM

Could it be possible that he was hit with the Dying Will Bullet, but he felt he no longer had any regrets? That way, it would appear that he was swamped with opponents so tried to boost his power, but ended up dying as a result of it so it would seem like they just fired at him and killed him, even if that may not have exactly been the case.

Blossomtree

February 07, 2008, 08:18 PM

Impel Down

February 08, 2008, 08:39 AM

Well, maybe Reborn fired it at him because he thought it would work, but it ended up, you know, not working because Tsuna's become a man.

Kazuo Kiyoshi

February 09, 2008, 04:13 PM

Well, Reborn might not even have to fire it, since he has the pills.

And how could we not feel regret? Did he become a cyborg all of the sudden?

Plus, he would be an idiot to not "defeat" them with his dying will. Since his resolution is "to protect the people he loves" or whatever. I mean is he still the No-Good Tsuna and can't connect the dots/ideas?

I mean, if he doesn't go into Dying Will mode = He dies = His family is broken = Millefiore will go after the Vongola and the people he loves (which is HAPPENING right now in the future)

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but if I'm wrong. Correct me. LOL

Witchchild

February 09, 2008, 08:26 PM

Sorry to revive a deadish thread. But there seems to be a lot of holes in that statement. :P

But that negotiation doesn't seem right. Yamamoto said Millefiore wouldn't negotiate. And he said "the poor guy was killed." He wouldn't call Tsuna POOR GUY, now would he?

+ Yamamoto said Vongola summoned a SPOKESMAN. So someone must've negotiated with them, instead of Tsuna.

And if Tsuna did negotiate. Where the heck is his hyper intuition then? Has it gone to sleep at that moment? Or even has it still not been awaken, even when in Dying Will? Even if he had hyper intuition. He should've known if they were lying, if they started the negotiation.

I think Tsuna got gunned down in two ways, probably an ambush and it was a bad time for him. Yeah. Who knows. Or it was a hit and run.

Yah, it was probably an ambush, but I'm still sticking with the idea of box-weapon bullets :P As for the intuition, it's not perfect. The Ninth was caught and stuffed in Gola Mosca, wasn't he? I'd think by his age, his intuition would have been long-awakened, yet he still got caught by the enemy. Tsuna, even 10YL Tsuna, could still be capable of ignoring his own intuition and being defeated by the enemy.

Oh well, not that it really matters. When/if they return to the past, they can always change the future....I think.

stevenash

February 19, 2008, 06:31 AM

I think gokudera wrote "Ahoshi"....I think it's daily communication japanese and is a combination of "Aho" which means stupid and "Ushi" which means cow....huhu..even after the ring conflict ends, the 5 year old Lambo thinks he found the ring in the garbage....so I guess that's the reason why the 15 year old didn't know.....he only know of the conflict once he is summon during the conflict...which means from that night afterwards he knew wbout the ring conflict.....

Ritsuku

March 16, 2008, 02:19 PM

Okay, kinda new to this but....

i vote that he was shot but he didnt die, he was in a coma-like state (or something)

so then they dont want to tell him he's a vegtable

i think it would be too depressing if he actually died, because even in the past, they wouldn't know what to watch out for so he'd end up dead AGAIN!

so i think that the milliefore did something to him that made him in an almost-death state by

a) using a weapon or something

b) poisoning (they wanted negotiations for the anitdote...?)

well, they have to do some method that doesn't go into direct conflict

and the author couldn't KILL the main character right...?

so thats why im with coma

Slashout

March 16, 2008, 03:12 PM

Hey Ritsuku, welcome here ^^.
As for your theory, I also think he is not dead. And in a coma-like state. It's not the most popular theory around here though ^^.

However we know he was shot down by the millefiore. Gama in his fight against Goku and Yamamoto confirmed it. So my guess would be that he was injured enough to be a death like state, or seemed to be dead to the millefiore.

RyuSensei

March 16, 2008, 03:19 PM

Coma-like state?
*arrogant* did you guys read the future arc? they were able to keep Chrome alive when she was organ-less so a coma wouldn't be a damn problem for the future medical installation Tsuna did */arrogant*

Slashout

March 16, 2008, 06:00 PM

Well that's the point of the argument :p.
I believe (thanks to the technology or not) that Tsuna was badly hurt but not killed.
Hurt badly enough for the millefior to think he is dead, but not enough for him to be really dead.
There are many arguments that were given before in other topic.
He could have been hidden (in the coffin that was not nailed, nor burried) for exemple. Well I won't write them all again here :p. I made huge posts about that before already with tons of descriptions and analysis of peoples word and stuff lol^^. Even if all of those can be interpreted differently of course.

Ritsuku

March 16, 2008, 08:45 PM

He could have been hidden (in the coffin that was not nailed, nor burried) for exemple.

That is a big question, why wasn't he buried [if he's dead]. I mean, who wants a rotting corpse in the center of the forest, if there wasn't anything that seemed like he would be preserved forever....

but i guess you can't come out of the grave like a zombie and make an appearance like that (though they did do that in Kill Bill:tem)

also, if this happens in the future, Tsunas gonna end up dead anyways right?:darn

RyuSensei

March 17, 2008, 02:47 AM

ok ok <.<, 1-0 for ya.

Ritsuku

March 17, 2008, 09:20 PM

YES!!

sorry not use to winning arguments

so lets just assume I'm wrong for popularity and huge specific reasoning.

best to see at all possibilities eh?

Emy

March 19, 2008, 07:55 PM

I was thinking, Reborn came to future before, maybe he saw future Tsuna still alive? I wonder...

Ritsuku

March 20, 2008, 09:32 PM

my theory about the death is that he was in a comatose state, so if that were to happen then that would make sense....

but there could be a device that redirected the bazooka transportation to tthe coffin...?

so maybe they wanted the people to think he's dead..?

but everyone looks so sad when they look at Tsuna

black_crow

March 20, 2008, 11:16 PM

I believe that future Tsuna is dead, becuase Future Yamamoto and Gokudera looked very guilty and sadened. Yamamoto was reminising("You've been great these past ten years...") and Gokudera was saying sorry. I think Tsuna was ambushed but was defeated while trying to protect someone. Because one of the only reasons he fights is to protect his family and friends.
But i also think that the hes not really dead theory is plausable and could make a nice plot twist:)

Emy

March 21, 2008, 08:50 AM

Well, in fact we don't know when future Tsuna died. (if he died)
Seens like he was still alive before Millefiore start to hunt Vongola, if he died recently it could explain why he wasn't buried, or if they already know about they being replaced it could explain too, but who knows?

We have a few hints yet.... .___.;
http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/153/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/140/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/140/14/

Slashout

March 21, 2008, 09:33 AM

I think he was put in the coffin recently.
Alive or dead.
His body was on a flower bed inside the coffin. They didn't look withered to me, and I doubt they were fake.
Gokudera was visiting the grave, but even if he was visiting regurarly, I doubt he changed the flower inside the coffin.
Also if Tsuna was dead for some time (even a day is enough) it would smell really bad in the coffin. I don't know if the mangaka would have thought of that in the case Tsuna was dead, but if that was the case, the first thing Tsuna would have said when stuck in that "dark closed space" is : "what's that smell?"

So I think either Tsuna was killed recently, a few hours top, but I doubt that's the case, they wouldn't have time to carry him there and all with the war going on, and Gokudera was "visiting" the grave in my opinion, and not doing a funeral all by himself.
Or he was there unconcious, but even so I doubt it was long ago... with the flower and all. And there was nothing to keep him alive inside the coffin. You know all the medical equipement, to inject nutritient in the patient and all.

kirimi

March 21, 2008, 09:46 AM

Moved the discussion to this thread. Let's have all the theories together. ^_^

Things we know for sure:
- Reborn arrived in the future 1 day before Tsuna and Gokudera.
- The coffin was not sealed when Tsuna arrived.
- Lal said the Vongola HQ fell 2 days before Tsuna arrived in the future. It's possible the fight lasted several days before HQ fell, but for now, let's assume the Millefiore launched the attack 2 days ago.
- Tsuna was alive before the Millefiore attacked, because he gave Ryouhei a mission to Italy. Then, Ryouhei said the attack occured when he was in Italy.
- Reborn said the future Gokudera was also there (with future Yamamoto) when Tsuna died.

Pieceing the puzzles together, it's highly possible that Reborn was also there when Tsuna died, which meant future Tsuna could have died the day before the Tsuna came to the future. Also, Reborn may have witnessed the death.

Slashout

March 21, 2008, 09:53 AM

I never thought of that possibility Kirimi-chan.
Reborn witnessing Tsuna's "death" in the futur is an excellent suggestion ! That would explain how he knew that Gokudera was there. Someone could have told him though, that's true but why would people go out of there way to say "X was here, x was here" (if they wanted to pin the responsability on other then that would be a possibility though).

Reborn also told Hibari that past Tsuna's abilities are a far cry from his futur self. He couldn't have been sure of it, unless he witnessed futur Tsuna's abilities with his own eyes. Or it would have been a random guess : "he is older, so he is stronger".

But if Reborn was with futur Tsuna, and they had the opportunity to discuss things, then maybe they made some kind of plan.

RyuSensei

March 21, 2008, 10:40 AM

What about: Tsuna died protecting Reborn when he came to the future? With all the 7^3 things it would be obvious for Reborn to get hunted down by the Millefiore, so maybe the future Tsuna fell protecting him, even though it seems kinda hard since Reborn is way more powerful that the Tsuna we know but, we're in the future and there is the anti-sdfsdf ray thing.

Emy

March 21, 2008, 11:23 AM

I tought that too, that he died while trying to save Reborn who is weaken against anti Tre ni Sete Radiation.
And... I doubt in two months, past Tsuna can be stronger like Future Tsuna.
But there is still Byakuran and much things to happens

RyuSensei

March 21, 2008, 12:10 PM

black_crow

March 21, 2008, 12:14 PM

I never put two and two together with what Reborn was saying. but it seems like he was there. I think that Tsuna "died" protecting Reborn. Future Reborn is already dead and Future Tsuna might have wanted to save the past reborn that appeared.
I think Emy mean that the Past Tsuna might not have been able to reach the power level of the Future Tsuna by training for that period of time (2 months?)

Emy

March 21, 2008, 12:15 PM

I mean.... how can he get stronger in 2 months, to be like his futureself after 10 years?
it's a big gap of time
edit: yeah, what Black_Crow said

RyuSensei

March 21, 2008, 12:36 PM

yea but, who said anything about Tsuna getting as strong as his Future-self?

Emy

March 21, 2008, 12:39 PM

the situation create an expectation that he must be stronger like his future self (who died) to defeat Byakuran, and I was just saying what I was thinking about the situation, not against what you said ~.~;

RyuSensei

March 21, 2008, 12:42 PM

Considering the fact that Byakuran is in Italy you probably shouldn't expect "Tsuna vs. Byakuran" atm.

Ritsuku

March 21, 2008, 04:16 PM

THey probably are going to destroy the japan base then go over to the italy base. I think that everyone else is going to defeat the japan base and then figure out that theres this BIG secret thing or something that will destroy the vongola so they will be

A) prisoned, then escape, and then finally destroy the millifore

B) get hold of some weapon, storm into the base and raise hell because (hopefully) everyone was in Japan

C) they use the power of the tri-s-e-nette (?) and win or something

either way, they defeat the italian base (probably)

Please, stay on topic, as RyuSensei said on his next post. ~Slashout

srry slashout >.<

Slashout

March 22, 2008, 03:03 AM

I think that what happened to Tsuna in the futur is that he switched side and faked his death. He is now Uni in disguise waiting for his time to strike the vongola, since he learned that Byakuran is actually his step brother.

Lol ok I'll stop my crappy prediction here :D.

[Mod on]
I know it's hard sometimes to keep on topic. I had trouble as well in the past.
But If you have a topic you absolutly want to talk about that is not related to the actual topic, do not hesitate to create a new one. We (Kirimi-chan and I) will move in that topic the other post that are revelant and missplaced.
[Mod off]

RyuSensei

March 22, 2008, 03:30 AM

Things we know for sure:
- Reborn arrived in the future 1 day before Tsuna and Gokudera.
- The coffin was not sealed when Tsuna arrived.
- Lal said the Vongola HQ fell 2 days before Tsuna arrived in the future. It's possible the fight lasted several days before HQ fell, but for now, let's assume the Millefiore launched the attack 2 days ago.
- Tsuna was alive before the Millefiore attacked, because he gave Ryouhei a mission to Italy. Then, Ryouhei said the attack occured when he was in Italy.
- Reborn said the future Gokudera was also there (with future Yamamoto) when Tsuna died.

Lots of possible outcomes from these hints but I think that's the one closest to the truth:
- Tsuna might have died after Reborn arrived in the future since Reborn seems to know what is Future Tsuna's strength, that would also explain the unsealed coffin with the fresh flowers

RyuSensei

March 22, 2008, 03:37 AM

Yay, seems like a lot of persons have theories on that,
so what fight are we going to see?
are Byakuran or Uni going to show up?
will Irie fight?
will they head up to Italy and raid the main base when it's over?
what's the round shaped machine?

and the omaaaaaaaaake:
when are we going to hear about Reborn's story from Yamamoto and what is it gonna be?

Go go go, start typing I want theoriiiiiiiiies. o.o

Ritsuku

March 22, 2008, 09:15 AM

sorry, i tend to stary off topic ^^;

so is he dead or not?

if what is said that he died before Tsuna came, then that would be a good explanation

but is it possible that the author didnt take into account the coffin and something so we're overanalyzing it maybe....?

Slashout

March 22, 2008, 09:38 AM

Yeah that's the problem. It's hard to know if we are over analyzing or not.
Maybe the coffin issue was to let Tsuna come out of it... If the futur Tsuna was dead and buried it would have been impossible for past Tsuna to come out of the coffin. However the mangaka was pretty "smart" in her choice of hint up till now. We always had something "hidden" that was hardly noticeable at first...
However since now I know it was a possibility for Reborn and futur tsuna to be in the same time (both alive) I am even more convinced there is something else behind his "death" !

Ps: Don't worry Ritusuku^^, it's hard to resist sometime.
I was whiped ... I mean reprimented by Kirimi-chan a lot of time because of that XD.

monzazz

March 22, 2008, 11:44 AM

I wonder if their futur self com to the past
what will they do, since they noe that the millefiore is destroyin the vongola
are they goin' 2 kil thoz millefiore in the past?

PS I didn't read all rep in this thread, so if sum1 had brought this already, I'm sry :)

Witchchild

March 22, 2008, 02:17 PM

*ahem*
what i don't understand is that during the thunder's battle, the 10 years Lambo claim that he does not have any idea bout the battle... but then, when Lambo 20 years is summoned, he does have memory of having the battle for the ring... so does it means that both of them come from different timelines?

5 year old lambo--> Doesn't remember (too young)
15 year old lambo--> Still doesn't remember, but gets summoned into ring battle
25 year old lambo--> Remembers ring battle from when his 15 year old self got summoned

Just my opinion.

I'm growing more in favor of the single timeline theory. It's more mind-bending that way.

Oh, and as for Bianchi not getting hit with the Bazooka, it's always possible that she left out on assignment or something and the sneaky shooters can't find her.

The more important question, IMO, is why didn't Ryohei get hit yet? I smell past-time counter operations...

Emy

March 22, 2008, 03:22 PM

I think Ryohei is in the past thanks to Colonelo, who was training him since Vongola Rings Battle

Emy

March 23, 2008, 08:35 AM

theorys?
hmmmm... I think they are going to Italy after this raid
And maybe there will be a huge fight w/ White Spell against Black Spell due to what this rounded shape machine can be.
Maybe the attack on Italy Millefiore base isn't going to be a sucess (Varias attack)

Ritsuku

March 24, 2008, 06:42 PM

on this other thread (i think) there was this theory that the Vongola family "prepared for this" so what if theres a device that would get certain people (aka the vongloa family) go into the furture by messing up the future-sending powers of the bazooka and so Future Tsuna told them not to tell them that he was NOT dead and they were giving serious faces because they

a) like to joke (i know dumbest reason but...)
b) something happens in the future that affects him permemnantly (like losing his DWF or watever, just making suggestions)
c) Milliefore has his body (like how that prison place has Mukurou in the beginning of the book) and they are keeping him hostage because they shot him with a bullet?:darn

black_crow

March 24, 2008, 07:32 PM

Well i dont think they would have his body, because dont you switch to the exact same spot with your future self when you use the ten year bazooka? And Tsuna switched and ended up in the coffin
But if it were possible, it would be really intresting to see~
:)

RyuSensei

March 25, 2008, 01:17 AM

If they had his body I don't see why there was a Vongola X coffin and why Gokudera was wandering near it.

DrunkDragon

March 25, 2008, 02:03 AM

Yeah I also thought that too that they might have him inside that machine. But that seems very unlikely and it seems to me that that's the reason why everyone is stuck in the future.

Ritsuku

March 25, 2008, 03:00 AM

Adressing these three statements above me,

I'm saying that someone is MESSING with the bazookas (by sending out waves or something to interfere with "the time mechanism" etc.)

so Tsuna might NOt be dead, just a vegtable and they were (meaning the vongola family) pre planning this so that they can go sava Milliefore AND Tsuna (by powering up their younger selves and having the rings and whatever. THe reason Gondera and Yamamoto dissappear is because they dont have a container keeping them in and stopping the bazooka transfer. Also, the coffin might sybolize how they failed him (maybe).

That lab area where Irie is guarding holds something VERY important, right?

MAYBE it could be TSuna

(DONT KILL ME FOR MAKING WEIRD ASSUMPTIONS XD)

RyuSensei

March 25, 2008, 09:34 AM

It's so weird that I cannot answer, worst idea ever imo, doesn't even make sense, sorry.

Kazuo Kiyoshi

March 26, 2008, 12:23 AM

They couldn't have "prepared", if they prepared, why would they need Tsuna in the future to disappear? Why would he abandon his friends? I mean really, the present Tsuna got there and most of his friends(being allied families and school friends), like Yamamoto's father and others were already killed/destroyed. Shoot, is Tsuna the kind of guy to leave everyone in hope there is a chance his former self with gain a power boost w/ the Vongola Ring and kick their butts?

And if Tsuna was not dead, then Gokudera IS ONE HELLA OF AN ACTOR. If there was all this "pre-planning", would Gokudera still show him a pic of Irie? Was Gokudera not informed of all the planning, the people coming to the past? Sure, Ryohei and Varia had some sort of hint that the family from the past was coming, but boy, did Gokudera look like he was about to cry like a baby.

And lord, are those Millefiore people are pretty good too. Would one be more shocked about a 10-year future Tsuna coming to the past and kickin' their butt or a 10-year past Tsuna w/ the Vongola Ring coming to the future? I would be pleasant that they got the ring, but more shocked that he is still ALIVE.

But I don't know, half your post is confusing so I'm confused also.

Ritsuku

March 27, 2008, 07:44 PM

I surrender

TitaniumChloride

April 02, 2008, 07:27 AM

What about that Vongola Trial Tsuna passed? If his future self was already the 10th boss when he died, wouldn't this make the past Tsuna the 11th boss?(*) The 9th was there among all the previous bosses but are we 100% sure about that he's actually dead? (Could it be some bizzare form of Vongola hallucination?? lol) If the 9th was dead and appeared in the trial then TYL Tsuna, if he's dead, should be there. (*)

Something seems fishy here... or just REALLY confusing.

*TYL Tsuna might not have taken the trial and so was not 'officially' the 10th boss but still...

RyuSensei

April 02, 2008, 08:52 AM

Could you be more explicit please, didn't get all lawl.

TitaniumChloride

April 02, 2008, 08:59 AM

I was referring to the fact that if TYL Tsuna was dead, would he have appared as one of the bosses in the Vongola Trial as well? (The bit where he got his Version V.R Gloves)

RyuSensei

April 02, 2008, 09:38 AM

Oh, TYL TenYearsLater lol, that's what confused me.
That's a really good question, guess nobody thought about it yet lol.
Mmmmmh, I don't think he should have also appeared as one of the Bosses, Lal Mirch said something like "it's a sink or swim test" and Reborn replied "it's the only way which is fast enough", don't remember exactly but I think it's about all the old Bosses who're really dead, about TYL Tsuna we don't even know if he's dead or not, that could be a hint that he's not dead.

Acalia

April 02, 2008, 10:02 AM

I was referring to the fact that if TYL Tsuna was dead, would he have appared as one of the bosses in the Vongola Trial as well? (The bit where he got his Version V.R Gloves)
I think it is connected with the Sky Ring. Well, actions of Vongola bosses are engraved on the ring. So it depends from the ring. Tsuna's ring didin't accept him before trial, but the TYL sky ring had accepted TYL Tsuna. It is connected with the time version of the Sky ring.

RyuSensei

April 02, 2008, 10:15 AM

oh yea, that's the explaination, nice job Acalia.
It's just about the version of the Sky Ring, young Tsuna still has his own Sky Ring, which means his ring didn't engrave all his future actions.

Ritsuku

April 03, 2008, 02:43 AM

it did get destroyed eventually right? so how does the sucessor get chosen?

just a side question because this question will only last 2 pages on the real forum XD

RyuSensei

April 03, 2008, 02:54 AM

Yea, it's supposed to be destroyed in the future, though we don't know if it was destroyed after Tsuna getting the Ver VR or before.

DrunkDragon

April 03, 2008, 06:28 PM

I'm pretty sure it was after Ver VR since Lal new about Tsuna using the ring behind his gloves. She didn't know it was a result of the Vongola Trial.

RyuSensei

April 04, 2008, 12:29 AM

or maybe TYL Tsuna discovered a way to use the Ver V just by pulling out the ring's power.

Witchchild

April 04, 2008, 06:31 AM

Sigh...Just watched the translated episode 75 of the Anime...assuming they've talked to Amano Akira to get their facts straight, looks like Tsuna was shot down during negotiations.

Wait...just rewatched it...said that they took the boss' life. Didn't specifically say Jyuudaime....

Grrr...frustrating! Just tell us already!

Ritsuku

April 05, 2008, 03:30 PM

RyuSensei

April 05, 2008, 03:48 PM

eh?

Kazuo Kiyoshi

April 05, 2008, 06:16 PM

Theye're probably going to tell us after all of the fighting or when they are facing the big boss guy to kill all of the people's morale....

so it must be something that affects their psychology...maybe

It already happened once with Gokudera, he said Tsuna was gunned down or whatever and he added "many of his comrades saw it too" or something, and he just snapped. :P

I don't think it'll happen to anyone else except for Gokudera, Yamamoto will probably just change his "eyes" and they'll look evilllll or cool, whichever. But Ryohei already knows, so bleh.

But maybe it'll be worse if there was more details to how Tsuna died, possible.

RyuSensei

April 06, 2008, 02:44 AM

Wow I just understood the previous post, imo they already know how he died it's pretty obvious. Do you think Tsuna went all alone against the Millefiore without his Vongola Ring, died and got shipped to the Vongola Ajito -.- ?

Vic

April 08, 2008, 03:05 AM

Ritsuku

April 08, 2008, 06:05 AM

I'll say this once again~

I think the bazooka was rigged but I'll agree that this was preplanned

RyuSensei

April 08, 2008, 10:55 AM

How could Reborn know that TYL Tsuna faked his death? :>

Slashout

April 08, 2008, 11:25 AM

That was a point that Kirimi-chan raised.
It was possible for Futur Tsuna to still be alive when Reborn was sent to the futur.
It's just a possibility though.

Vic

April 08, 2008, 12:04 PM

How could Reborn know that TYL Tsuna faked his death? :>

He might be the one that came up with the plan

RyuSensei

April 08, 2008, 01:08 PM

Tsuna would never fake his death, he'd knew that would put in danger his past family who would have to go to the future to fight in his stead.

Slashout

April 08, 2008, 01:26 PM

Why not?
Bringing the past family, having them use boxes, learn of the vongola rings power, Tsuna passing the vongola trial, and thanks to that prevent the current event from happening in their futur when they'll be back (and possibly fixing that current futur).
Seems a good reason to do that.
Especially when half of your family is dead, allied families dead, most arcabaneloes dead, and the remaining hunted down. And you can't do anything against that as you do not have the vongola rings. Besides I think they need the vongola ring for something else than just their raw power.
The note did say gather the rings.

RyuSensei

April 08, 2008, 02:06 PM

Then if he did that why didn't he plan to just send em back to the past? Gokudera would've had a lot of fun killing young Irie.

Slashout

April 08, 2008, 02:49 PM

This is just my suposition and it's highly likely that it's wrong.
But the origins of the boxes are shrouded in mystery, and in the futur some are looking for the real reason they were designed (not build ^^, we know that already).
So maybe they had an idea of that, or maybe they knew it would be important later on and they also wanted the past family with the vongola rings to get acquainted with the boxes.
Well just a possibility.

RyuSensei

April 08, 2008, 03:09 PM

I would like to have some "Box and Rings" Gaiden xD.

Indeed that might be a good idea, I am looking into it. I might have to merge a few threads. It might a bit "vague" for one thread though. I'll think about it a bit ^^. Slashout~

Kazuo Kiyoshi

April 08, 2008, 07:24 PM

Hiya! I'm Vic and I'd like to participate in this thread :D

My guess is that Future Tsuna faked his death and that only one person knows about it (maybe past Reborn) and that he anticipated that Lambo would go trigger happy on the TYBazooka and that that was their only hope.....because it's safe to assume Reborn really is dead, for there wasn't anything in his place when he went into the future.....

Welcome, Vic.

But that sounds ridiculous, why? Gamma said, he was "gunned down". Really? Can you even survive it? Also he added "comrades witnessed it" blah blah. Seriously? You can fake that? And dear god, I hope there's no plothole.

Witchchild

April 09, 2008, 02:15 AM

Welcome, Vic.

But that sounds ridiculous, why? Gamma said, he was "gunned down". Really? Can you even survive it? Also he added "comrades witnessed it" blah blah. Seriously? You can fake that? And dear god, I hope there's no plothole.

I'm of the party that believes he really did die. But I have one thing to say despite that.

Say that he did fake his death....

Say that Leon was still around even after Reborn's death.

Say that the future didn't get changed, so Tsuna knew that he had to 'be dead' for events to continue and his past self to save the future with the Vongola Ring that he didn't have anymore.

"I will fake my death with my Dying Will!"

:Shrug:

It's unlikely, but possible that Tsuna had someone shoot him with Leon in front of the enemy.

Very, very unlikely, but it would definately be an interesting plot twist.

Again, I'm of the party that believes 99% that he's dead. I'm just not completely close-minded to the idea that something else might have happened.

RyuSensei

April 09, 2008, 11:35 AM

I'm totally in the "He died" or "He died protecting Reborn which arrived in the future, that's why the flowers in his coffin were still fresh" ideas. :>

Witchchild

April 09, 2008, 05:11 PM

The anime is making it out more and more that Tsuna died during negotiations with Millefore. How Yamamoto keeps referring to Tsuna as Boss makes me believe that Tsuna really was the boss that he was talking about.

I think my mind is pretty much settled at this point. Assuming that those in charge of the anime cleared everything through Amano, I'm 99% positive that Tsuna was gunned down when he went to negotiate and then his body/coffin was transferred to Japan in effort to hide him until he could be properly buried. Gokudera was probably waiting for Yamamoto to show up before heading to the secret hideout together with the casket.

Kazuo Kiyoshi

April 09, 2008, 05:40 PM

Oh yeah, I'm with you, Witchchild, I mean, as long as Tsuna's death isn't cleared, I'll be open, but when say fakin' death. It sounds pretty ridiculous.

I watched the anime which also made that idea come to mind, but it makes me kinda mad @ how Yamamoto said "poor guy" in the manga, and how it's different compared to the anime, so yep. Haha.

black_crow

April 09, 2008, 05:46 PM

I am pretty much convinced that Future Tsuna is dead. The only reservation i have is that there might be a bigger motive behind all this that might have something to do with Future Tsuna.
But we have to remember that the anime and manga are separate. if the anime says something different it doesnt mean it has anything to do with the manga.

kirimi

April 09, 2008, 09:54 PM

RyuSensei

April 10, 2008, 02:05 AM

yea, also, the fact that Gokudera was waiting for Yamamoto is highly improbable since the latter said he was coming to pick up an agent of CEDEF who's actually Lal Mich.

Witchchild

April 10, 2008, 06:52 AM

Well, first, are you basing this on the anime subtitles or the anime dialogue? Don't assume the fansubbers' translations are more accurate. >_> Can you tell me what episode it is? I'll check it against the manga script later. :D

From reading the manga, there was no indication that Yamamoto referred to Tsuna as the negotiator. He could have deliberately hid that fact out so that Tsuna (from the past) would not feel bad. No matter how much they're aware of what's going on, it's just not nice to hear about your own future demise. So, this interpretation is possible.

Episode 75 around the 20:30-21:10 minute mark on Crunchyroll. It's confusing and irritating because when he says 'called on our boss' it shows a shadowed outline of both the 9th and Tsuna (or possibly the enemy and Tsuna....it's hard to tell...or even Bakyuran and the 9th! Damn outlines...!!!)

And then right afterward, Tsuna assumes it's himself that Yamamoto is talking about.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/Madashes2ashes/shadows.jpg

All of this just makes me raise the question of how close the animators have been talking with Amano. I mean, this is pretty hard to ignore if Amano plans a twist in the future with Tsuna's death.

kirimi

April 10, 2008, 08:11 AM

Thanks for the help in finding the place in the episode! :) Okay, confirmed that the script was changed. Instead of "the Millefiore summoned an envoy from the Vongola side with the intention of entering negotiations," it was changed to, "the Millefiore wanted the top from both sides to enter negotiations, and called our boss out."

Then, "However, there was no negotiation at all, and they killed the envoy…" was changed to, "...they killed the boss." Which Tsuna interpreted to mean his future self.
If we assume that the one in the foreground (right side of screen) is Tsuna, then the seated person should be Byakuran.

This would actually make sense in the flow of the manga, because right before they talked about this, they were talking about Tsuna's coffin. As if Yamamoto was trying to explain how future Tsuna died.

There are two possible explanations. One is, as you said, Amano-sensei supplied the information to the animators, or the animation director interpreted the manga this way to add more drama. The directors do have that power.

I'm pretty convinced this is possibly what happened though. ._.

Witchchild

April 10, 2008, 02:14 PM

I'd do a happy dance since I believed he was the one gunned down during negotiations back in December and was shot down repeatedly BUT....

Nooooo!!! Tsuna~!!!!!

TitaniumChloride

April 17, 2008, 05:28 AM

I was wondering... the ice that froze Chrome's ring when she came to the future. I've got 2 trains of thoughts/ramblings about this:

a) Future Tsuna's Zero-Point Breakthorugh ice
If that's what the ice on Chrome's ring was, then that could mean that the Future Tsuna was alive after all. o_o The fact that he was in that coffin might mean that all this past to future stuff was actually planned. But if he came through then at least Lambo would have seen him. Lambo hasn't said anything about that at all though Lambo could have knocked himself out after Tsuna got sent to the future and not see anything suspicious. This could also mean that Future Tsuna was the one who was shooting everyone with it after taking it from an unconcious Lambo... (wtf?) but Lambo would have surely said something about his Bazooka gone missing... hmm... Future Gokudera's reaction towards Tsuna discounts this theory I think, and so do the other reasons given that confirm Future Tsuna's death.

b) Mukuro's illusionary ice
Mukuro could have frozen the ring just as Chrome was being blasted with the 10 Year Bazooka or the ring could have been frozen afterwards. If it was before, then the past Mukuro knows something about all this. Maybe he even has something to do with why Reborn couldn't move away from the blast. If Chrome's ring was frozen afterwards, surely she would have definately seen how it was done and who did it. (But she's unconcious now... meh) How would either Mukuros pull off freezing the ring without Chrome knowing anyway? (Probably means that it isn't Mukuro... I'll ramble on though.) Also, it's kind of a coincidence that the sensors to detect the Vongola rings weren't working at the time. Only Future Mukuro seems to have a chance of sabotaging the sensors... wait. Future Mukuro could be why the Varia know of the past Vongolas presence. (Again, very confusing :confused:)

Both of these ideas are too ridiculous and filled with too many holes for either to be true but it would be great if anyone else managed to figure something out. I almost couldn't sleep when I suddenly thought of this in the middle of the night. :darn

RyuSensei

April 17, 2008, 10:54 AM

Imo,
it's whether the ring froze alone during the "past to future" warp
or it has something to do with the fact that her link with the past Mukuro got somewhat broken when she went to the future, that would explain why it unfroze when TYL Mukuro came out.

Slashout

April 17, 2008, 04:28 PM

I wonder about that.
I think she never lost her link with mukuro, it probably went from the past to the futur one directly.
Otherwise her illusionary organs would have disapeared.

I wonder if Mukuro has to be more or less conscious to keep her organs or if it's "automatic". Because if isn't that would mean that he knew she would come, after all he didn't defeat Glo back then because he knew he would have the occasion to defeat him with minimum effort... He probably knew before hand.

That leave the "ring froze during the warp" but that would be kind of weird too... Tsuna's, Goku's, Yama's and Lambo's ring didn't froze... Why hers alone?

Maybe that was Mukuro's doing, or TYL Tsuna's... well that's an interesting topic, there might be some important stuff behind that, that would help us understand what's going on. Like most of the other big srcret of this arc... ^^;

Ritsuku

April 17, 2008, 05:17 PM

NO one knows who the shadow is and it could be a fake person :P

who knows?

Also, (back to maybe he didnt die) Tsuna could of faked EVERYONE out, including Dino (who refused to help their raid). Even if they say he got shot repeadetly multiple times, you can fake people out with bullet proof vests or the person shooting him was a spy and several other lame theories. COME ON! ITS A BOOK WITH BULLETS THAT MAKE YOU STRONGER!

therefore, the possibility he died is still 50/50

P.S. the way things are heading, you will see the TYL of everyone so TYL Tsuna will probably be seen sometime

TitaniumChloride

April 17, 2008, 07:57 PM

that would explain why it unfroze when TYL Mukuro came out.

I thought the ring unfroze when TYL Mukuro had activated the Mist Flame through the ring to melt the ice but looking back, I'm not so sure now. Mukuro himself could really have caused the ice.

Here's the page: Chapter 164 Page 8 (http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-164/page008.html)

But if the ice was illusionary, the ice could have just disappeared instead of thawing... Or the illusion can just thaw anyway. A mystery indeed. Sigh.

Slashout

April 17, 2008, 10:00 PM

Tsuna's ZPB ice, melt with flame... So maybe it's because she started using the ring. Sadly I don't see any flame on the ring to support that theory though :(.
But if the illusion was from Mukuro I don't see why it wouldn't just disapear instead of thawing...

RyuSensei

April 18, 2008, 12:12 PM

Fake person? What's that? a stuffed animal?

Tsuna wouldn't be able to fake everyone, he's not even able to fight without Reborn around, do you think he could do such a thing, ALONE without nobody helping?
Bullet proof vests? Rofl, like Gokudera would just believe that's the 10th is dead without having atleast a look at his corpse, same goes with the spy thing.

RyuSensei

April 18, 2008, 12:18 PM

Tsuna's ZPB? When did he do it then? TYL Tsuna was already supposed to be dead or missing when she came to the future.
Maybe the Ring froze because she lost all her determination, it seems like she's way more confident when the Ring's ice melt, as if her determination and trust in Mukuro freed the power of the Vongola Ring.

Blossomtree

April 19, 2008, 12:34 PM

I'm not positive that TYL tsuna died, but no one acually said it yet, but it seems kinda obvious. He can't be still alvie because didn't they have a funeral for him. Wasn't his body in a coffin :o. If it wasn't then why would tsuna appear in there after getting hit by the bullet O-o. Unless he faked his death and somehow just laid in the coffin pretending to sleep ....er... O-o don't think so though. and why would the coffin be randomly in the middle of the woods. This makes me wonder if reborn landed in a coffin when he went into the future....

black_crow

April 19, 2008, 01:32 PM

Well with the vongola hunt going on, i doubt that they woud have time for a funeral whether he really did die or not :sweat

Lintu

April 19, 2008, 06:27 PM

There are two possible explanations. One is, as you said, Amano-sensei supplied the information to the animators, or the animation director interpreted the manga this way to add more drama. The directors do have that power.
I think the talked with Amano-sensei. Just look at the 4º op: the weekend before Garyuu's first appearance, it appeared behind TYL Ryohei... And you don't make an op in just a day! >_> They surely know about Garyuu weeks ago!!

I found so suspicious the fact that the coffin was laying in the middle of a forest filled with Millefiore's soldiers... Yeah, they didn't have time for a funeral or a correct good bye, but, anyway! Why is the coffin laying there?! Why not in the subterranean base? Why let the 10th "corpse" just like that in the forest?

It intrigates me x0x

TitaniumChloride

April 20, 2008, 08:29 AM

I'm not positive that TYL tsuna died, but no one acually said it yet, but it seems kinda obvious.

Someone did say specifically that TYL Tsuna is dead. TYL Fuuta did. (http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-156/page002.html)

So either this means that he's really dead, or he could somehow still be alive but no one else knows it. Unless we decide to ignore Fuuta. <<

RyuSensei

April 20, 2008, 08:39 AM

Ignoring Fuuta would be a great error, he's the "Prince of Ranking" after all, I'm sure his powers allows him to know one's vital condition.

TitaniumChloride

April 20, 2008, 08:57 AM

Yeah, I admit that the 'TYL Tsuna did it' theory is really stretching it. But I'm not quite convinced that losing determination is what caused the freezing. She'd have had to have her ring frozen from the start to avoid detection by the Millefiore.

She made her appearance in the Future Arc on the day Tsuna was going through his Vongola Trial (chap 157 (http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-157/page017.html)), which should be after the radars are back online (during the Yamamoto + Gokudera vs. Gamma fight (http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-153/page010.html)). She wouldn't have lost determination the moment she found herself in the future right? Probably disorientated but still...

TitaniumChloride

April 20, 2008, 09:10 AM

True. But do we have any confirmation that he got his powers back? I haven't seen any proof yet. But it would be wierd if he did a "most missed deceased Vongola 10th member" ranking though. o_o

RyuSensei

April 20, 2008, 10:20 AM

powers back? Did I miss something?

TitaniumChloride

April 20, 2008, 10:32 AM

Well, Fuuta lost his ranking abilities in the Kokuyo arc (http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-074/page014.html)and the manga went straight into the Varia arc. I haven't seen Fuuta use his powers since so...

RyuSensei

April 20, 2008, 10:39 AM

When Fuuta came back he was holding a briefcase ( http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/155/17/ ) which - for me - had his Ranking Book in it, I don't think he would take his book everywhere if he hadn't gain back his powers.
Moreover he wouldn't even go to gather information if he was only an normal boy.

As for the Kokuyo Arc, I think he got his powers back right after the arc, he closed his heart due to Mukuro's actions so when the latter disappeared it was normal for him to get his ability back.

TitaniumChloride

April 20, 2008, 10:48 AM

Ah, I didn't notice bag! It's interesting and it does back your point nicely.

Maybe it was some remnant of fanfiction that implanted the thought that 'Fuuta's loses his ranking abilities permanently'.

Emy

May 10, 2008, 12:54 AM

just to reforce the theory of Reborn meeting TYL Tsuna

http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/136/11/
"The Second Day" <--- My brother memmory remembered this "chat box", this also means Tsuna just looked for Reborn after 2 days O.o;

http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/139/11/ <-- and what happened 2 days before Tsuna and Gokudera arrive

kirimi

May 10, 2008, 09:14 AM

http://www.onemanga.com/Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn/136/11/
"The Second Day" <--- My brother memmory remembered this "chat box", this also means Tsuna just looked for Reborn after 2 days O.o;

The "second" day means the next day. Tsuna looked for Reborn less than 24 hours after Reborn disappeared.

Do yourself a favour and download the more accurate translations for these chapters. It's too bad onemanga just uploads whichever comes out first. -_-;

Emy

May 10, 2008, 01:00 PM

oops ok >_<

frozen18ice

May 19, 2008, 10:47 PM

the seven guardian and 7 rings are needed in the future but they do not have all of the vongola rings.
would that mean that sasagawa ryohei be the next one to be sent back to the past so he will be replaced by him with the power of his sun ring.

it seems that he is a capable guardian however, his powers seems to be weak compaired to the others that have the power of the vongola rings.

Wrath

May 20, 2008, 10:22 AM

Yeah, now that he's been owned by someone with a Mare Ring, it's pretty clear that the heroes are all going to need the Vongola Rings to keep up. After the current arc, Hibari, Ryohei and Chrome will all have to learn to use their Rings and Boxes, so there'll be at least some training left before the true final fights.

RyuSensei

May 20, 2008, 10:34 AM

Wrath

May 21, 2008, 02:41 AM

Don't put Hibari in the same basket as Ryouhei and Chrome, he managed to defeat Gamma - even if this one hadn't his new box - with C and D rings. He doesn't need a Vongola Ring, it'd be too boring for him.
And now with his new Box Gamma says he can beat Hibari and Ryohei at the same time, and there's no real reason to doubt him.

The villains need to come as close as possible to succeeding, which means that all the Vongola Rings need to be in the future. Just because Ryohei is weaker than Hibari doesn't mean that Hibari isn't going to be sent to the future.

frozen18ice

May 21, 2008, 04:50 AM

thats very true the possiblity of the last two gurdian regardless of their power will eventually be sent back but i hope that sasagawa goes first then hibari. i think he needs it more than hibari who is still formitable without his cloud ring. the enamy are getting strong like gamma but goku also got stronger. so i think its will be a really good battle.

come to think of it we never seen goku from the future's fighting ability at all and takeshi from the future we only seen a little of it.

could it be possible that the past self are now stronger than the future them?

RyuSensei

May 21, 2008, 08:32 AM

We don't know about the skill gap between TYLYamamoto and Yamamoto but it's for sure that Goku is stronger than his future self since the latter wasn't able to complete the Sistema C.A.I.
To get back to Hibari, the probability is really low, and moreover I don't think Hibari goes around carrying the Vongola Ring, he even threw it in the past during the Varia Arc.

frozen18ice

May 21, 2008, 12:47 PM

that true that he did trow the ring several times but then agian he is the one that traveled around the world trying to figure out the rings powers and boxes. only means that he does like the ring but well all know he will not admit to it.

how much do u think sasagawa ryohei will be stornger with the power of the vongola ring
(p.s) not my faivote character but its really painfull to see him so weak

Emy

May 21, 2008, 03:20 PM

Maybe Gokudera still hasn't figured all Sistema CAI, he said he can't switch the atributtes instantaneously yet
http://read.mangashare.com/Katekyou-Hitman-Reborn/chapter-193/page011.html
So maybe he still need to find something more in the Sistema CAI.
or maybe he just need to master it and more practice w/ Sistema CAI

about Ryohei being sent to future, seens like it will happen, they main reason to be around the future seens to be the Vongola Ring, so it can be expected that Ryohei will be sent to future. I think there is a high probability of Hibari being sent to future too, because Reborn surely is stronger than Hibari, yet he was paralised and sent to future.

frozen18ice

May 21, 2008, 06:48 PM

wait that is true reborn did say he cant move at all
and that persons on the corner is there he/she could have done some kind of magic to prevent reborn to move.

but mybe if sasagawa was sent to the future colonello will be with him for sure becuase he also might be the one protecting him from the one sending everybody else to the future.

hibari being the strongest guardian and also he is around dino who is also very strong.