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Izkity
July 11, 2009, 04:33 PM
This is the match-up I originally wanted to see happen in Karakura. But who do you think would win? I'd go into detail but I'm running short on time.

Mifune_Taichou
July 11, 2009, 04:56 PM
Soi Fon for a few reasons.

1st I'll probably be the only one fighting her corner and the girl needs some love lol.
2nd Hallibell isnt all that fast and doesnt have any way to keep soi fon away from her like Barragan can so presumably soi fon might be able to kill her in Shikai(oh yes i know sacreledge a captain killing the vaunted espada in shikai).

People keep whining about how Hitsugaya is only surviving Hallibell because he got the Exact opponent thats good for him and that Hallibell would look good if she got anyone else but that also applied for soi fon. She'd be a beast against ANYONE else but Barragan she just got paired with the worst possible opponent.

Eddy01741
July 11, 2009, 05:12 PM
ANYONE else?

How about Yoruichi? Her in shikai couldn't take on Yoruichi without a zanpakutou, and her shunko also paled in comparison to Yoruichi.

I'd reckon that other speedsters like Byakuya, Ichigo, and Ulquiorra wouldn't have much a problem with her either.

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000166252/17.jpghttp://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000166252/18.jpg

Plus, I'd consider that pretty decent speed.

Add to the fact that her water attacks can't be negated by freezing, and I'd give Halibel the win. Soi Fon hasn't shown us anything impressive so far besides her 2hko shikai, but even that+shunko couldn't take down Yoruichi.

Zatono
July 11, 2009, 05:21 PM
ANYONE else?

How about Yoruichi? Her in shikai couldn't take on Yoruichi without a zanpakutou, and her shunko also paled in comparison to Yoruichi.

I'd reckon that other speedsters like Byakuya, Ichigo, and Ulquiorra wouldn't have much a problem with her either.

Add to the fact that her water attacks can't be negated by freezing, and I'd give Halibel the win. Soi Fon hasn't shown us anything impressive so far besides her 2hko shikai, but even that+shunko couldn't take down Yoruichi.

Ok, but this was Yoruichi she was dealing with. The God of Flash, and even she got hit in a bunch of places. If Soi Fon used Shunko against Harribel, i'd say it'd be easy to avoid some water guns and hydro pumps. She could even pull out some bakudo's, which we know she can use.

I'm pretty sure she's tied with byakuya in speed. As for Ulquiorra...well its Ulquiorra, he can wreck Vizard Ichigo ezpk.

Eddy01741
July 11, 2009, 05:24 PM
How are you so sure she could avoid the water attacks, and how do you know the bakudo's would be enough to hold her down when the ice obelisk failed?

Zatono
July 11, 2009, 05:25 PM
How are you so sure she could avoid the water attacks, and how do you know the bakudo's would be enough to hold her down when the ice obelisk failed?

Because if Hitsu , who I assume isn't as fast as Soi Fon, can put his sword up in time to turn water to ice, then I'm pretty sure that Shunpo'ing away from the water wouldn't be that much of an issue. As for the bakudo's, I'm not saying it'd hold her down indefinitely, just that it could buy her some time. to 2HKO?

Eddy01741
July 11, 2009, 05:32 PM
That's the difference though, for Hitsu, as soon as he sees the attack, he can freeze it, the fact remains that Soi Fon has to not only dodge Halibel's water attacks, but also manage to work her way up close, which Halibel won't make easy if she spams water attacks.

Also, even if she does get up close, Halibel's not exactly a shabby close range fighter from what she did to Hitsu.

En Yang Ji
July 11, 2009, 11:15 PM
I think Soi Fon would win. If she can keep Yoruichi on the defensive most their battle, using her speed and shikai, she probably could beat Halibel.

Dark God Zeus
July 12, 2009, 02:08 AM
Soi Fon vs Youroichi is a poor example to be quite honest.

It's a psychological battle on Soi Fon's part, she'd be fighting her old master/idol. Regardless if she believes in upholding justice or wants to surpass her, psychologically I'm guessing she COULDN'T go all out on Youroichi.

I mean, if Soi Fon was serious she would have gone ALL OUT, bankai, "death in two steps", etc. And even at the end she broke down, crying. Youroichi was the worst possible opponent 1) Because she's pretty much a more experienced/better Soi Fon, and 2) She couldn't go all out.

As for Soi Fon vs Halibel, this is the match up I wanted too.

I'd give it to Halibel.

1) Unless soi Fon was uber fast/reactive, she'd have a hard time evading that "air cut".

2) She may be able to avoid the water attacks, but we know Halibal hasn't gone all out yet. And she does have an attack to fire in rapid succession (La Gota?).

3) MAYBE her bankai could do it in, assuming it's explosion does something/it has an after effect/her bankai does more. Halibal didn't show any defensive moves.

DARK
July 30, 2009, 02:07 PM
Soi Fon, if she is able to use her "Death in Two Strikes" technique. She is also much more adept in close combat than Hitsugaya is, and the reason why she was overpowered by Barragan was because his "age" technique prevented her from so.

hiei1290
August 13, 2009, 07:42 PM
How about Yoruichi? Her in shikai couldn't take on Yoruichi without a zanpakutou, and her shunko also paled in comparison to Yoruichi.

I'd reckon that other speedsters like Byakuya, Ichigo, and Ulquiorra wouldn't have much a problem with her either.


Just to point out something there, Soifon was faster than Yoruichi throughout the entirety of their fight, and she only stopped because Yoruichi showed Shunko.

The same RUSTY Yoruichi also sped past Byukuya WHILE carrying Ichigo.

I don't see where you get the impression that Byukuya could outspeed Soifon.

Mifune_Taichou
August 21, 2009, 07:25 PM
I have to say, having seen the damage Soi Fon's bankai did to Barragan and Hachi's eEPIC barrier AND how shocked Hachi was at its power considering he hangs out with the VAIZARD-at least four of which (Shinji, Kensei, Love and Rose) should have the power to curbstomp Hallibell in seconds flat, my belief that soi fon would win has since increased.

First:

she is by far faster than Hallibell. As someone up there pointed out she was actually faster than yoruichi-yoruichi was just better at shunko. Since this implies she is also faster than byakuya, who can keep up with the fastest espada it would seem to establish as near as possible as fact that Soi Fon is much, much faster than Hallibell.

With that premise, she could conceivably dispatch Hallibell with her shikai alone-lets not forget Barragan is the only person she couldnt do that to.

Now seeg her bankai and her ability with bakudo it seems a fairly simple thing of hitting Hallibell with some bakudo to kepe her in place for a sec and then Hitting her with her bankai attack. On the latest evidence I really dont think Hallibell could survive it. I dont think we've seen anything in bleach that matches it for pure distructive force.
[hr]

How are you so sure she could avoid the water attacks, and how do you know the bakudo's would be enough to hold her down when the ice obelisk failed?

The obelisk didnt fail-she didnt break out on her own power or else she would have done it without waiting to see what would happen. she was rescued by WW.

Aikidoka
August 24, 2009, 11:41 PM
Halibel wins because her boobs are bigger.


...

j/k

I vote Soi Fon. She has a freaking nuclear missile. I find it hard to believe that Halibel can pull something out from her hot *** that can deal with that.

Ozehro
August 25, 2009, 05:50 PM
you don't think harribel can dodge the missile?
also that bankai is extremely risky. she can only do it once every
threedays. oh wait she found a way to do it twice.:eyeroll
guess she could even do more as long as that's what's required
to beat the enemy. not so sweet deus ex machina.

Random101
August 25, 2009, 05:54 PM
She could barely even stand after two, though granted she was pretty tired after the first one too so it may be just needing a breather sort of thing.

Tsukisama
August 25, 2009, 06:17 PM
Whether or not she lands a hit with her bankai is rather besides the point IMO, since Soi Fon shouldn't have to resort to using her bankai. Her shikai is lethal enough. The only reason that Soi Fon had to use her bankai against Barragan was because she could not land a hit on him and that was because he could manipulate time. Harribel does not have this power; so, unless she is so unbelievably fast that Soi Fon cannot manage to land hits on her, one really only needs to worry about Soi Fon's shikai in this match.

That said, I think Soi Fon would probably win due to the nature of her shikai. It is a two-hit win. The only way to have an opponent not be affected by this is for the opponent to both know the nature of Soi Fon's shikai and be faster than her. I don't think Harribel knows Soi Fon's shikai, and I don't think (based on what I've seen so far and my confidence in Soi Fon's speed) Harribel is so fast as to never be caught by Soi Fon.

Random101
August 25, 2009, 07:19 PM
Problem is Hierro. Heirro is strong enough on the arrancar with weaker defenses than #5 that most shikai's are pretty much made obsolete, especially in the case of Ichigo, as even his bankai blade can't seem to break through it, save like once against Ulquilorra. And honestly I'm inclined to believe that while the ability is potent, it's not the best offensively. Provided she can pierce it'd work, but if she can't there's little she can do about it.

Ozehro
August 25, 2009, 08:10 PM
She could barely even stand after two, though granted she was pretty tired after the first one too so it may be just needing a breather sort of thing.

yeah lol I was joking. My point was that nothing's impossible in bleach when it comes to deus ex machina, which is bad for the story. :(

Bromamura
August 29, 2009, 11:34 PM
First:

she is by far faster than Hallibell. As someone up there pointed out she was actually faster than yoruichi-yoruichi was just better at shunko. Since this implies she is also faster than byakuya, who can keep up with the fastest espada it would seem to establish as near as possible as fact that Soi Fon is much, much faster than Hallibell.

For one, Zonmari was not the fastest Espada by any means, it's merely boasting on the villain's part, just as how Nnoitra claimed to be the strongest Espada. Not to mention it's already been disproven in the manga the moment that Byakuya was able to react to him, it showed us that speedwise:

Zonmari=Byakuya<<<<Bankai Ichigo<<<<Sealed Ulquiorra <<<<VB Ichigo<<<<1st res Ulq<<<2nd res Ulq.

Also another way to look at it:

Zonmari=Byakuya<<<<rusty Yoruichi<<<<Soifon<<<<Barragan unreleased.

Other characters such as Stark also have much better feats in raw speed that do not just involve doing tricks with their sonido and making pointless afterimages.

Anyways Soifon should still edge out in the speed department and wins this until Halibel shows better feats, so far none of her moves besides perhaps Cascada were even remotely impressive.

Eddy01741
August 31, 2009, 09:37 AM
Okay,honestly, I think it's a matter of what Zommari defines as speed. His definition of speed? He can make sonidos fast enough (like repeatedly) that he can make clones of himself.

Nobody else has shown the ability to make a clone using sonido or shunpo except him. Yoruichi has made a pseudo clone, but even then, it's not perfect, it still has a placeholder (a piece of clothing).


Now, the general thinking of bleach fans of who is fastest, is who can integrate speed best into their combat, and who can shunpo/sonido the farthest away. Like Stark and Shunsui, we all saw them shunpo/sonido incredibly far away.




Basically, I think Zommari saying he was the fastest was actually not wrong, as, in one aspect of speed, he was the fastest. Until we see another espada make clones, he will be the fastest in that aspect of speed.

Aikidoka
September 02, 2009, 01:53 AM
Whether or not she lands a hit with her bankai is rather besides the point IMO, since Soi Fon shouldn't have to resort to using her bankai. Her shikai is lethal enough. The only reason that Soi Fon had to use her bankai against Barragan was because she could not land a hit on him and that was because he could manipulate time. Harribel does not have this power; so, unless she is so unbelievably fast that Soi Fon cannot manage to land hits on her, one really only needs to worry about Soi Fon's shikai in this match.

That said, I think Soi Fon would probably win due to the nature of her shikai. It is a two-hit win. The only way to have an opponent not be affected by this is for the opponent to both know the nature of Soi Fon's shikai and be faster than her. I don't think Harribel knows Soi Fon's shikai, and I don't think (based on what I've seen so far and my confidence in Soi Fon's speed) Harribel is so fast as to never be caught by Soi Fon.
Thanks! I can't believe I forgot about Soi Fon's shikai (my post wasn't entirely serious though), the bankai sort of drove that out of my mind.

I'm not making a comparison between Ggio and Halibel, but considering what Soi Fon did -- trample him with physical skills, trap him with Kidou, and release in such a short time -- and assuming that she actually takes the fight seriously rather than "witness an Arrancar's release" for herself, I think Soi Fon can land hits on Halibel quite easily.

The only question is whether those marks would pierce her Hierro, like Random101 stated.

As for defense though, I'm positive Soi Fon would be able to avoid most of Halibel's water attacks. None of them (save for the first one) look particularly impressive or fast.

Random101
September 02, 2009, 02:21 AM
Cascada was huge and practically was launched instantly. I'm not saying Soifon can't dodge it, but if she spams it like she was spamming La Gota, chick's going to have a hard time.

Hachigeneral
September 14, 2009, 06:35 PM
There is no way Halibel wants to melee with Soifon. Halibel's large weapon looks terrible against a small fast target and this is evidenced by the fact she hasn't landed a real hit on Hitsuguya yet. It'll be a ranged fight with water vs. nukes and I'm going with the nukes on this one. After Hachigen humiliated Soifon by fighting her battles for her I think Soifon is gonna be more ruthless than ever against her next opponent. She will be determined to prove that she is still in the game and her loss to Barragan was just due to a bad matchup.

Mifune_Taichou
September 15, 2009, 03:24 PM
There is no way Halibel wants to melee with Soifon. Halibel's large weapon looks terrible against a small fast target and this is evidenced by the fact she hasn't landed a real hit on Hitsuguya yet. It'll be a ranged fight with water vs. nukes and I'm going with the nukes on this one. After Hachigen humiliated Soifon by fighting her battles for her I think Soifon is gonna be more ruthless than ever against her next opponent. She will be determined to prove that she is still in the game and her loss to Barragan was just due to a bad matchup.

Wow I cant believe I'm saying this but I agree with you tottaly. barragan was just about the worst opponent for Soi Fon-since hallibell cant slow down time and keep Soi fon away from her she is in trouuuuble.

Raizen
September 15, 2009, 04:26 PM
Here is how it breaks down
Halibel has the brute strength and the projectile attacks
Soifon has the element of speed and a deadly shikai

IMO halibel's strength can really mess with soifon. That is unless she uses shuunko. I like soifon, but I don't think her speed will be as great as you guys point out. Halibel is quite fast too.
halibel does not seem to be stupid. As long as soifon does not describe her ability, she has the element of surprise.

In the end I think soiofn can win, but it still would be a close battle

deanmilanov
September 15, 2009, 04:54 PM
First off, it's sad this fight didn't happened in the manga. It would be nice to see Soifon battling another woman (who looks quite a lot like Yoruichi).
My choice is Soifon for 3 reasons: shikai, speed and personality.
In my opinion her shikai's ability is the best suited for killing in the whole manga - there is no anti-venom, one can't regenerate, and the mark lasts as long as she wants it to last.
In terms of speed she is fast enough to keep up and even be faster than Yoruichi, who, I dare say, was not rusty anymore (she noticed she was out of shape in the chase with Buakya, and I'm sure she did something about it.) and even forced Yoruichi to fight her with shunko. Even though she lost, she said she has finished the technique the other day, meaning she was inexperienced. Also, she was fast enough to wrap herself around Aizen and put a blade to his throat, a feat no other bleach character can boast of.
Lastly, Soifon strongly believes in rules, she is both law-abiding and law-enforcing. She harbors great hatred towards those who threaten SS so it is certain that she would attack with her utmost ability.
Hallibel would lose the fight before she felt the urge to release, because Soifon does not have to emit enough reiatsu to pressure an espada into going all out, her sword's ability does all the work. It is still doubtful whether or not she could land two hits in the same spot, since Halibel is shown to be a great swordmaster, wounding Hitsugaya so his forehead bleeds, yet she is not shown to be very fast. Against someone as nimble and agile as Soifon, she'll get stabbed at least once, and if Soifon doesn't explain the power, I'm pretty sure there will be a second hit.
If the fight turned out to be at full power (release vs bankai), Soifon loses her advantage, unless she is able to shoot a rocket at Hallibel and then surprize her in the back, stabbing her with shikai. This is unlikely as the shock wave from the rocket is extremely strong. Nevertheless, secret corps captain has shunko, which aids movement and striking power, so such a feat is possible.

P.S. Raizen, I posted this without reading yours, but I'm glad we agree. Hope you don't feel mad or plagiarized.

Mifune_Taichou
September 15, 2009, 05:48 PM
Theres also the fact that I dont see hallibell surviving a direct hit from Soi Fon;s bankai. She hasnt been shown to be nearly impressive enough to do that. Of course Soi Fon Landing a hit will depend on first landing a bakudo because hallibell isnt that slow.

That said i think any thoughts of Hallibell keeping up with Soi Fon are a joke because she wasnt fast enough to outmaneuver Hitsugaya who is by no means a speed demon and SOi Fon is at least as fast as the fastest character in bleach. So Soi Fon should be able to run circles around Hallibell sealed or released. I dont think that fight will even require Soi fon to go bankai.

Raizen
September 15, 2009, 09:09 PM
Theres also the fact that I dont see hallibell surviving a direct hit from Soi Fon;s bankai. She hasnt been shown to be nearly impressive enough to do that. Of course Soi Fon Landing a hit will depend on first landing a bakudo because hallibell isnt that slow.

That said i think any thoughts of Hallibell keeping up with Soi Fon are a joke because she wasnt fast enough to outmaneuver Hitsugaya who is by no means a speed demon and SOi Fon is at least as fast as the fastest character in bleach. So Soi Fon should be able to run circles around Hallibell sealed or released. I dont think that fight will even require Soi fon to go bankai.
1- Yes halibel may not be as fast as soifon, but she is pretty quick. Hitsu was looking straight at her and yet he was unable to do anything about her speed. Not to mention she tore his body in half with one strike. So halibel is not slow in any regards.
2- If soifon wants to win, she will stick with her shikai or shuunko. If she uses bankai, she will be too slow and has no way to defend herself. Her missle may be powerful but she won't have her VC to distract the enemy while she preps

Soifon can win, but not as easy as most seem to think

Random101
September 15, 2009, 09:23 PM
The Nukes Soifon totes can be used at best two, maybe three times (Arguably). And they move slow enough that it's rather plausible to dodge them and avoid a direct hit (Though the explosion and aftershock may still get you). Hence it's arguable whether or not Soifon will be able to hit with it. Especially on the second or third try, when Harribel knows what it does. If it does hit, there's no way in hell Harribel survives without at the VERY least some serious damage, but getting it to hit will be the problem.

As for Soifon's shikai? It's unclear whether or not she can use that to pierce her Hierro. Remember that Hierro is the reason a majority of Shikai are obsolete once we hit the espadas (see Ichigo, whose shikai became completely and utterly useless after he learned Bankai, and even his bankai is pushing it). So that in itself is arguable too.

So pretty much there's an arguable case either way. Either Soifon can hit easily with her Bankai and can pierce with her shikai, can only do one of those, or can't do either, and depending on which one she either has a much easier time or a supremely hard one. There simply isn't enough information known to make a case either way.

Raizen
September 15, 2009, 09:31 PM
The Nukes Soifon totes can be used at best two, maybe three times (Arguably). And they move slow enough that it's rather plausible to dodge them and avoid a direct hit (Though the explosion and aftershock may still get you). Hence it's arguable whether or not Soifon will be able to hit with it. Especially on the second or third try, when Harribel knows what it does. If it does hit, there's no way in hell Harribel survives without at the VERY least some serious damage, but getting it to hit will be the problem.

As for Soifon's shikai? It's unclear whether or not she can use that to pierce her Hierro. Remember that Hierro is the reason a majority of Shikai are obsolete once we hit the espadas (see Ichigo, whose shikai became completely and utterly useless after he learned Bankai, and even his bankai is pushing it). So that in itself is arguable too.

So pretty much there's an arguable case either way. Either Soifon can hit easily with her Bankai and can pierce with her shikai, can only do one of those, or can't do either, and depending on which one she either has a much easier time or a supremely hard one. There simply isn't enough information known to make a case either way.
I think her shikai can pierce the hierro. Her SP is basically focused into her middle finger, making her capable of stabbing them.

Random101
September 15, 2009, 09:35 PM
Oh indeed, you can argue a case for it, no doubt. But by the same notion Ichigo's shikai Getsuuga is pretty much worthless, and that big old blade couldn't even cut a former espada, and that has to have some massive force behind it. Ultimately either way you argue it you could have a case for it, hence why more information would have to be known first.

yasuo
September 16, 2009, 08:12 AM
Oh indeed, you can argue a case for it, no doubt. But by the same notion Ichigo's shikai Getsuuga is pretty much worthless, and that big old blade couldn't even cut a former espada, and that has to have some massive force behind it. Ultimately either way you argue it you could have a case for it, hence why more information would have to be known first.


I think Ichigo is an exception. Btw he is one of those who goes Bankai in the first seconds of a fight. Generally he is nothing special, compared to the other ones. Shikai = big sword and Getsuga Tenshou | Bankai = small sword, stronger GT and faster. Also it fits him more than his Shikai. Someone said that Kubo himself, likes Ichigo's Bankai more than his Shikai. Maybe that's why he goes Bankai in the first few seconds. Besides he's the only one who is permanently in his Shikai.

Same goes for Renji. He uses his Bankai every fight, right at the beginning.



As for Soifon's shikai? It's unclear whether or not she can use that to pierce her Hierro. Remember that Hierro is the reason a majority of Shikai are obsolete once we hit the espadas (see Ichigo, whose shikai became completely and utterly useless after he learned Bankai, and even his bankai is pushing it). So that in itself is arguable too.



IMO, it depends on the abilities of each Zanpkatou/Shikai.

For example:
(don't read it, If you don't read the spoiler for next bleach chapters)
Shunsui only used the ability of his Shikai to stab through stark. That is why I said it depends on the ability.

Rukia defeated Aaroniero only with her Shikai - doesn't even have a Bankai ^^ Her Shikai's ability was able to kill/defeat him.

Same with Byakuga. He could have killed Zommari with his Shikai. He wanted to show him the difference in power, so he used his Bankai

So, it could be possible that Soi-Fon is able to stab through everything. Otherwise it would be pretty dumb because she would be completely useless with only her Bankai, to match up with Espadas. Besides it wouldn't suit her, If she have to use her Bankai everytime - only to get through an espdas Hierro.

- yasuo

Random101
September 16, 2009, 10:58 AM
Note her Shikai was more or less completely useless against Barragon none the less, even pre-release, which in itself is my point. An arguable case yes, particularly since not all Shikai are created equal, but there is a case for both options, hence why more information needs to be known before we can get a clear cut case.

Further I'm skeptical as to whether or not something like that is a shikai, though granted I'd need to see the chapter first.

Hachigeneral
September 16, 2009, 04:41 PM
Soifon can most likely pierce hierro because as was mentioned pointy weapons have many times the force behind them as a slashing weapon if we compare force per area. It is the same concept of why it is so much easier to pierce skin with a needle than a butterknife, despite pressing equally hard. Since they focus reiatsu into their weapons the reiatsu is focused to one small point.

Thus the way to counter her shikai is not hardening your skin but coming up with ways to counter its effects. Here are some possibilites.

1) Reiatsu most likely makes it wear off faster because Soifon said her marks used to fade quicker in the past (when talking to Yoruichi). Thus when she was weaker they didnt last along which may correspond to her sub captain reiatsu at the time. So against a much stronger opponent they may be fading very rapidly...it is probably a relative to your opponent ability. I doubt Yamamoto or Aizen would die like Gio Vega did, there is likely a limit and it may just make them sick or deal them a large wound without the actual death effect.

2) Opponents who don't have blood dont seem affected by poison. This attack would be garbage against Barragan even if he let her hit him.

3) Anyone with heals can probably heal up the mark.

4) Would it work on Mayuri? Knowing him he would have something to counteract the poison.

Now, does Harribel have any of these possibilities going for her? Does she boast having a particularly hard hierro even? Nope. She is getting 2 shot without a doubt in a 1v1.

Two shots may seem overpowered but in reality one hit from respira in the face is a one shot, a sword slash from Yamamoto or Ichigonator could be a 1 shot, and there are other abilities I wont speak of which 1 shot the opponent. ;)

Soifon is nothing special in the overpowered category, but she has the tools to humiliate Haribel easily in a duel.

obamamania
September 16, 2009, 05:13 PM
I must say, nice post^^^ But I'm confused, what's this about poison? I don't think her shikai is a poison, because you can be stabbed all over and not die, as long as you don't get stabbed in the same spot again. Plus, yes, the wound can be healed, but the mark seems to be kido related so normal healing probably won't work. Perhaps kido can reverse the mark, though we don't know how long that would take, plus Soi fon is so fast that she could probably hit it again before you get the chance. Btw, thanks for coming up with a fair limit, I wouldn't want to believe that her shikai can 2 shot Aizen or a VL though Kubo implies that it could since the ability is "sure death in 2 hits". Aizen's shikai is absolute hypnosis, and it worked on everyone we know of, including possible VL hollows and on top tier captains. So I unfortunately have to believe the shikai descriptions as factual.

Plus, since it's a seemingly kido based ability, it should work on barragan but respira stopped that so in effect we'll never know =[

Hachigeneral
September 16, 2009, 07:31 PM
It can't work on Barragan because she would lose her hand just to deliver the first strike. And it looks like she can only use it on flesh since it is a piercing attack. If she pierced between his ribs would it even do anything?

It seems like poison to me, she says sting all enemies to death...but yeah, maybe it is a kido that acts like a poison so I just think there is a way to counteract it. I doubt everyone she hits with it would die as quick as Gio Vega. I mean, what if she hit Ulquiorra R2 or Ichigonator? I bet they could hold out pretty long with regeneration and reiatsu.

Keiji
September 16, 2009, 08:52 PM
Soifon would stand a chance, (If I'm not mistaken) in the chapter where she was describing her bankai. She said (and I quote)

"This Bankai offends my pride as a covert ops agent. It's too large to hide. It's too heavy to move. And its attack... is too flashy for assassination!"

TO me it sounds like she has another version of bankai. Somewhat similar to Yumichicka's(sp) shikai.

Raizen
September 16, 2009, 10:04 PM
Soifon would stand a chance, (If I'm not mistaken) in the chapter where she was describing her bankai. She said (and I quote)

"This Bankai offends my pride as a covert ops agent. It's too large to hide. It's too heavy to move. And its attack... is too flashy for assassination!"

TO me it sounds like she has another version of bankai. Somewhat similar to Yumichicka's(sp) shikai.
Hahaha, i don't know how you came to that conclusion based on that quote. It just means that she doesn't like using her bankai b.c it takes away all her stealth and speed

As for suzemebachi, the whole poison is nothing more than filler. I don't believe soifon's shikai has ever mention her shiaki as poison.
And as far as she is concerned, the mark can never go away unless will so by soifon herself

kitten320
December 16, 2009, 07:06 AM
Soi Fon

Halibel hasn't shown any real skills. She wasn't fast, at least not as fast as Soi Fon usually appears to be. With Soi Fon's shikai it will be really hard for Halibel to avoid her.

Water attacks are not a major problem. You can avoid them or use shunko against them.

Or once again use Omaeda as decoy and bankai her :p

Halibel has nothing what would save her from the explosion.

That wouldn't be easy fight, but she can do it.

Raizen
December 22, 2009, 03:58 PM
I think that soifon would not use her bankai in this situation. W/ no oemadea to distract her opponent, she has no way to set it up

I think shuunko and shikai is more than enough

kitten320
December 22, 2009, 05:19 PM
Yeh true, I really doubt she will use her bankai ever again. Just pointed it out, it really isn't neccesary.

conn-man
February 08, 2010, 11:23 AM
i dont see how anyone could disagree that soifon takes this in all regards.i think she has better endurence ethan any other character after ichigo. she fought with a fraccion that beat her up a bit, lost an arm, fired her bankai twice in a few minute span, and she still has the energy to use a copy technique that blows the 7th espadas away.

after last chapterr im completly rethinking soifon.

Charred
February 08, 2010, 11:49 AM
She could use her bankai without the preparation, she'd just suffer massive injury's herself from doing so most likely.

El Samurai Guapo
February 08, 2010, 01:27 PM
i dont see how anyone could disagree that soifon takes this in all regards.i think she has better endurence ethan any other character after ichigo. she fought with a fraccion that beat her up a bit, lost an arm, fired her bankai twice in a few minute span, and she still has the energy to use a copy technique that blows the 7th espadas away.

after last chapterr im completly rethinking soifon.

When this thread was created the top espada were still grossly overhyped, so that's most likely the reason why Soi Fon is losing in the poll. With that said, you're right, at this point it should be obvious that Soi Fon would easily take this. It seems that every time we see her fight she's got a new trick up her sleeve.

If she can use that kage bunshin no justsu in combination with her bankai, then I would say she's easily one of the deadliest characters in bleach.

Truu
February 08, 2010, 01:49 PM
If she can use that kage bunshin no justsu in combination with her bankai, then I would say she's easily one of the deadliest characters in bleach.

I agree.

And Soifon rapes Halibel.

kkck
February 08, 2010, 06:38 PM
I don't see soifon having an easy time though. Without bankai harribel seems to have quite bit more firepower and range than soifon. Harribel forced hitsugaya into long range combat (actually hitsu forced it on her because he knew he would be screwed in terms of speed and strength) so she can't be that slow. That alone with her greater attack range would do wonders against someone like soifon. Dunno whether soifon's bankai can hit harribel though. Considering the has organs and stuff (unlike barragan) getting half her body blown off including organs would certainly kill her. I do doubt soifon will be doing any speedblizting here. Hard fight for both of them....

Chaos Shadow
February 08, 2010, 09:00 PM
If she can use that kage bunshin no justsu in combination with her bankai, then I would say she's easily one of the deadliest characters in bleach.

naaa remember that with her bankai she cant move so fast

El Samurai Guapo
February 09, 2010, 03:33 AM
naaa remember that with her bankai she cant move so fast

What? I think you're missing the point here. If she can split her self into multiple images, she can pull a Naruto and have 2-3 of the 'clones' attack her target, meanwhile the real Soi Fon is behind or above taking aim with jakuho raikoben (where Naruto would be coming in with a rasengan). Why would she need to be fast? All she needs is something to provide a distraction for couple of seconds.

conn-man
February 10, 2010, 06:49 PM
What? I think you're missing the point here. If she can split her self into multiple images, she can pull a Naruto and have 2-3 of the 'clones' attack her target, meanwhile the real Soi Fon is behind or above taking aim with jakuho raikoben (where Naruto would be coming in with a rasengan). Why would she need to be fast? All she needs is something to provide a distraction for couple of seconds.

no, no this isnt kage bunshin, the clones arent actully there, the only reason they are there is because she can move fast, shes moving so fast she leaves after images. imagine that she is starting and stopping so fast with so much repitition that the images are there almost like a flicker, with her bankai this would be impossible since she said herself its so heavy.

El Samurai Guapo
February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM
no, no this isnt kage bunshin, the clones arent actully there, the only reason they are there is because she can move fast, shes moving so fast she leaves after images. imagine that she is starting and stopping so fast with so much repitition that the images are there almost like a flicker, with her bankai this would be impossible since she said herself its so heavy.

Well maybe that's your interpretation, but I never read anything that mentioned she is simply using shunpo/sonido after images.

conn-man
February 11, 2010, 12:09 AM
Well maybe that's your interpretation, but I never read anything that mentioned she is simply using shunpo/sonido after images.

They arnt solid copies like clones or anything, its all her. No one in bleach can make copies of themselves to fight for them, its a desceptive technique so that the opponent won't know which image to block and since soifon can make such a wide array of images of herself at once its very dangerous.

Pavitre
February 11, 2010, 04:47 AM
Yes I agree it's not actual clones, just to fool the opponent wiht super speed thats all.

Well Aizen sure caught it quickly and I guess someone as Yoruichi shouldn't have problem's dealing with it

Besides we dont anything about if yoruichi has a zanpaktou or not and if she does then we haven't even seen its shikai, lots of uncertain factors about her

Raizen
February 11, 2010, 03:41 PM
Yes I agree it's not actual clones, just to fool the opponent wiht super speed thats all.

Well Aizen sure caught it quickly and I guess someone as Yoruichi shouldn't have problem's dealing with it

Besides we dont anything about if yoruichi has a zanpaktou or not and if she does then we haven't even seen its shikai, lots of uncertain factors about her
Actually soifon was able to get both hits on aizen with that.
But as it turned out it was an illusion :notrust

Eddy01741
February 11, 2010, 04:02 PM
Just curious then, since Soi Fon was hitting an illusion, would Aizen have overpowered her 2-hit shikai ability with just sheer difference in reiatsu if it was not an illusion?

conn-man
February 11, 2010, 04:28 PM
Just curious then, since Soi Fon was hitting an illusion, would Aizen have overpowered her 2-hit shikai ability with just sheer difference in reiatsu if it was not an illusion?

another question about the same thing, did hinamori take those two hits?

Lunatic Scream
February 11, 2010, 08:16 PM
another question about the same thing, did hinamori take those two hits?

Doubt it, she wouldn't even have the time to utter "Shiro-chan... why?"... as Momo is a VC, she's Fraccion level (arguably), and Ggio Vega died near instantaneously.

Aizen nullified that with his reiatsu and then miracle substituted her in. I don't think Hallibel has quite that level of reiatsu though, so it's not a viable option for her.

Jamil2009
February 12, 2010, 04:52 AM
Just for the record, Soifon would have MURDERED Harribel!!! Don't have the time to expound on that now but will do so later. Would have loved to discuss the Aizen thingy but I don't want to ruin this thread.

Captain Class
February 13, 2010, 07:02 PM
Halibel lost to Aizen just as fast as Kyouraku and shinji did..

we can't base her progress off anything so the poll is useless.

If Halibel is stronger than Ulquiorra, she should have no problem putting Soi-Funk down.

Ulquiorra is enough speed for Soi-Soi.

Truu
February 14, 2010, 04:08 AM
Lol, HaLAMEbel was the joke of the espada (the other one would be Zomali). Soifon would rape her, the latest chapters just confirmed that.

Primecut
February 23, 2010, 09:13 PM
It can go either way IMO. Aizen made them both look like amateurs so comparing them to him is a bad comparison. The clone trick is good but Aizen probably let her hit him to show off his reiatsu.

exacta
February 23, 2010, 09:28 PM
Lol, HaLAMEbel was the joke of the espada (the other one would be Zomali). Soifon would rape her, the latest chapters just confirmed that.

Yeah. The way Soifon shunpo'd in front of Aizen and completely ki.....wait a minute.:facepalm

She got owned like nobody's business. How does that confirm ANYTHING? Hell, Halibel stood up after the first hit from Aizen. Many Gotei 13 and Vizard have fallen after the first hit.

Zommari's gemelos sonido is different from Soifons. Hers were just fake afterimages, she could only attack with one.Zommari could use all 5 of his, and do substitution like techniques with them. If Soifon could've attacked with her other 11 clones she would've without a doubt, so I consider this to be a canon fact. Soifons technique is more like Double Team. Zommaris is like I said, a substitution.

Halibel was up against someone who could counter her abilities. Isn't it great how so many people conveniently ignore facts like that when reading Bleach so they can bash?

I think Halibel would probably beat Soifon.......Halibel was pretty fast herself, and I'm assuming Soifon isn't so fast that other captains couldn't keep up with her, though she is likely the faster. But Halibel was pretty good with the close range combat, and I don't see Soifon pulling off a full Nigeki Kessatsu on her. 'm sure she'd get the first one, though.Not to mention, theres no way in hell she'd get a hit with that missile. Unlike Barragan, Halibel is actually a moving target, lol. Then again, that missile might move really fast, maybe I should wait til seeing this in the anime before I make up my mind.....But Soifon definitely couldn't beat Zommari. Zommari could keep up with her for sure, plus her abilities aren't the perfect matchup like Byakuya's. And I could totally see him take control of Soifon's shikai hand, and have her Nigeki Kessatsu herself.

Actually, that would be pretty damn funny.

kkck
February 23, 2010, 09:34 PM
People mostly understimate the espada because they got defeated IMHO..... Seriously, without some serious captain-vizard gangbang I don't see how the captains would have won this one. In general it seemed as if the released espada actually were faster and stronger than the captains (there are a few exceptions though), they would not be easy opponents for the captains. Not sure how a harribel-soifon fight would go though, both of them are very fast, harribel is probably stronger and have seriously powerful attacks.

Primecut
February 23, 2010, 10:40 PM
Well, Halibel did get humiliated by Hitsuguya and most folks believe Soifon is stronger and faster than Hitsuguya since she was beating up on Yoruichi for a while. Then again, Soifon's performance against an unreleased Barragan was pitiful as well..

kkck
February 23, 2010, 11:00 PM
Soifon was the worst possible matchup against barragan though. And harribel was hardly humialited. Even though she was helped by WW she still seemed to be unfaced after she was released. She is very resistant and at the very least proved to be more than vastly superior to hitsugaya in terms of speed and power. In a physical fight I would think she would be able to keep up with soifon and have the greater amount of attack power. Soifon would perhaps be a tad faster and more agile though. Not an easy fight for either of them but it would be good to see.

Primecut
February 24, 2010, 02:49 AM
Soifon was the worst possible matchup against barragan though. And harribel was hardly humialited. Even though she was helped by WW she still seemed to be unfaced after she was released. She is very resistant and at the very least proved to be more than vastly superior to hitsugaya in terms of speed and power. In a physical fight I would think she would be able to keep up with soifon and have the greater amount of attack power. Soifon would perhaps be a tad faster and more agile though. Not an easy fight for either of them but it would be good to see.

I don't know man, if she outclassed Hitsuguya as badly as you are saying then she should have ended him before he one shotted her. I look at being trapped like that as a loss to Hitsuguya on her record. She would have been stuck there until she died or the battle was long over because without Wonderweis I just didn't see her escaping that attack. If she could have gotten out of that attack then she would have did it before Wonderweis arrived because letting herself stay frozen when Aizen "needs" her is just dumb. A team player like her wouldnt just toy around with that kid since she wanted to avenge her fraccion, thus she was done for until WW arrived and saved her. Plus common sense tells me she would get weaker and weaker from being trapped in that cold environment. I have no choice but to conclude that Hitsuguya did indeed one shot her with that snowflake attack, hence why I called it humiliating.

I guess it is because Hitsuguya is not one of my favorites and I've always viewed him as low tier, yet he put down #3 simply by summoning some snow flakes. I just see Ulquiorra, Barragan, or Stark busting out of that technique and chuckling, but Halibel looked like she couldnt handle it. Well, actually theyd probably just dodge that with ease but she just stood there and tried tanking it or changing it into water which failed and cost her the fight. Aizen was right when he slashed her down and called her an embarrassment....her performance was simply pitiful compared to the others.

vizardichigo
February 24, 2010, 02:59 AM
Re considering now, Soifon will win this...She is the fastest captain that is in the Gotei 13 ATM and can use her shikai to 2 hit Hallibel...Even if that doesnt work, she could use some kidou spells to immbolize her..Hallibel's technique makes her difficult to deal with but speed would be the reason why Soifon would win this fight...Along with her bankai...

El Samurai Guapo
February 24, 2010, 03:11 AM
People always forget that a low level bakudo like hainawa could easily be used to restrain a target long enough for her to use her bankai on them. The only person this would not have worked on is Barragan obviously, which is why she lost to him.

Any other arrancar would have been easy prey for Soi Fon though.

Dynast
February 24, 2010, 05:14 AM
I'm afraid that the two-hit-certain-kill won't work on any low number Espada, just look it hasn't worked on Aizen. Soi Fon is a goner here, she dies before releasing Bankai.

Truu
February 24, 2010, 12:40 PM
I'm afraid that the two-hit-certain-kill won't work on any low number Espada, just look it hasn't worked on Aizen.

And just because it didn't work on Aizen means it won't work against the MUCH weaker Halibel? Lol, don't give this sh*t to me.

Soifon wins this with her shikai.

hakuthehedgehog
February 24, 2010, 06:13 PM
I think what Soifon hit was an illusion, otherwise Aizen whould've got a wound in his chest, yet he's unscathed.
I think Soi Fon takes this, but not easily.

Raizen
February 24, 2010, 06:41 PM
using aizen as a comparison is fail since u don't know what is real and what is fake.

I think soifon can win but it will be a tough match. Halibel can use long range attacks (her water) and she is brutal in close range too. Soifon is very speedy. Her clones would give her time to use her shikai. Not to mention she seems pretty skilled in bakudo. And then there is shuunko

Ramirez
April 13, 2010, 02:06 PM
Soi-fon could maybe sneak in a win with her Shikai

Or use her little clone trick plus Hadou to hold Harribel down and nail her with her Bankai

either way i give the win to Soi-fon

kitten320
April 21, 2010, 05:59 AM
I'm afraid that the two-hit-certain-kill won't work on any low number Espada, just look it hasn't worked on Aizen. Soi Fon is a goner here, she dies before releasing Bankai.

This statement has so many holes that it isn't even funny...
1. Aizen >>>>>>>> Halibel, he has far more Reiatsu than her. His reiatsu alone was enough to make Grimmjow kneel.
2. Soi Fon was half bleeding, in pain with only one arm left and only had about 15-20% of reiatsu left. At tha point her attack might have not worked even on Yoruichi. If she was her 100% or atleast at 90% it would be a different story.
3. As we found out later Aizen was just an illusion, you can't possible kill the illusion what basicly makes my statements above kind of useless now.

Random101
April 21, 2010, 10:42 AM
We have no idea how much power Soifon had left, so those percentages are useless. Granted, it's very clear she wasn't even close to 100%, but throwing random numbers with no basis isn't the wisest of options.

Though yeah, we have no idea if that's how it actually works in the first place, because Kubo pretty much retconned that whole chapter with that nonsense. I mean granted Hitsugaya's final blow, fine, that would have worked (Though that also would have been a good place to reveal the orb nonsense, actually make things move along at a decent pace... >>) but everything leading up to it was just inane.

Of course I'm not sure if a shikai is viable for piercing her hierro, which has made pretty much all shikai save ones of people who were not forced into bankai have been downgraded to (Seriously, Ichigo can't even cut people to any serious extent with just his bankai anymore, that's how sad things have gotten).

Raizen
April 21, 2010, 12:51 PM
I think soifon's shikai would work. It is sharp and i think the piercing power would be more concentrated b/c she is focusing all her reiatsu on one point

This match will be a tough one IMO. halibel is no slacker. In close combat she is pretty deadly, that is why hitsu had to swich to long range. Soifon is a close range fighter so it will be tough for her. I think soifon can win. But halibel is not a weakling as some put it

Truu
April 21, 2010, 12:55 PM
*Sigh*, is this still a question?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/391/13/ - Soifon stabs Aizen, his clothes was schismed, right?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/392/15/ - Aizen's clothes is unscathed.

Conclusion: Soifon had stabbed NOTHING, so please, stop this "the bigger reiatsu can negate her shikai" bullshit, because it's... well, bs!