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View Full Version : Discussion If you were Yama, who would you have sent to Hueco Mundo?



Dark God Zeus
July 12, 2009, 02:37 AM
Yama obviously had the time and experience to pick the four captains he chose to send to Hueco Mundo. It seems like some of them may have asked to go/Yama took in their personal issues into the mix. Based on what you know about the situation in Fake karakura Town, and the situation in Hueco Mundo, whom would you have sent to give the greatest benefit to Soul Society? You can send four captains to Hueco Mundo.

1) Mayuri Kurotsuchi. I think Mayuri was definetly a great bet to send to Hueco Mundo. The pure fact that he had intel on his enemy before he went already makes him a good choice. Mayuri isn't an uber captain, so he's not a top choice to have on the front lines. And then, if he did happen to stumble upon any worthwhile discoveries, he'd be able to relay this/study this, and bring it back to Soul Society.

2) Hitsugaya. Yama HOPEFULLY knew Aizen would bring only the best espada with him to fake karakura town. Hitsugaya needs more experience before he can go toe to toe with the best, his bankai is immature, and most of his knowledge is probably based off books and not battle experience. Sure he's a genius, but he is far from the top (give him 100 years, and he'll be a Yama though). Keep matsumoto in real world though.

3) Kenpachi. I do agree with sending Kenpachi too, for one reason. He IS a loose cannon, he rank off from a captains meeting when ichigo/co were breaking into Soul Society, imagine what he would do if there were enemies thousands of times more powerful than they were at a time. Ken would go nuts. Regardless if he is insanely strong, maybe strong enough to take on the top 3, he can't follow orders to be effective.

4) Soi Fon. Erm, pretty much same deal. Her power level is too low to be able to contend with the top espada. She'd fair well against the lower echelons of them. I doubt she's fast enough to get close enough two times to the top espada, she had alot of trouble with Barragan, and her bankai seems like it's only use IS it's missile, which seemingly drains her after. Keep Omeada in real world.

And then also send the 4th division vice captain.

Honestly, why did Yama think it was a good idea to send both of their main healers, when jes...erm, Orihime was in Hueco Mundo. In addition, Unohana likely makes a strong offensive force.

And Byakuya is within the upper levels of the captains, mid-level at worst.

Mifune_Taichou
July 12, 2009, 06:03 AM
before i answer id just like to sa a couple of things.

Firstly you cant send Hitsugaya to HM as he needs water and there is none there. He's a good bet for the real world.

Secondly Soi Fon only couldnt get next to Barragan because of his special ability-he's the worst person for her to fight. Shed be able to get close to anyone else besides Zomari-dont kid yourself into thinking the espada are faster than the fastest captain.

Personally I'd send:

1. Zaraki Kenpachi-He's a beast and hes likely to rampage through several lower level espada but without bankai he isnt anywhere near the level of the top espada or captains. I think he's awesome but he;s just not as strong as say Byakuya.
2. Kommamura-again he's powerful, not enough to take out the top espada (unless he shows us more). He'd be enough for a rescue mission and to wreak havoc in Las Noches but not someone i'd want next to me when Aizen and the top 3 come-I'd want Byakuya instead for example.
3. Kidou Corps VC-I think one like that could offer great fire support
4. Kurotschi Mayuri-what you said is exactly right I think.
5. Hannatarou Yamada and Kotetsu Isane to act as healers-maybe even 4th div 3rd seat.

Ozehro
July 16, 2009, 12:46 AM
before i answer id just like to sa a couple of things.

Firstly you cant send Hitsugaya to HM as he needs water and there is none there. He's a good bet for the real world.

Secondly Soi Fon only couldnt get next to Barragan because of his special ability-he's the worst person for her to fight. Shed be able to get close to anyone else besides Zomari-dont kid yourself into thinking the espada are faster than the fastest captain.

how is soifon the fastest captain..? nothing like that is mentioned.
only one who is famous for speed is Yoruichi.



Personally I'd send:

1. Zaraki Kenpachi-He's a beast and hes likely to rampage through several lower level espada but without bankai he isnt anywhere near the level of the top espada or captains. I think he's awesome but he;s just not as strong as say Byakuya.
2. Kommamura-again he's powerful, not enough to take out the top espada (unless he shows us more). He'd be enough for a rescue mission and to wreak havoc in Las Noches but not someone i'd want next to me when Aizen and the top 3 come-I'd want Byakuya instead for example.
3. Kidou Corps VC-I think one like that could offer great fire support
4. Kurotschi Mayuri-what you said is exactly right I think.
5. Hannatarou Yamada and Kotetsu Isane to act as healers-maybe even 4th div 3rd seat.

I agree but I would also send Byakuya and soifon. you need more fire power.lol.

Mifune_Taichou
July 16, 2009, 03:03 PM
how is soifon the fastest captain..? nothing like that is mentioned.
only one who is famous for speed is Yoruichi.



I agree but I would also send Byakuya and soifon. you need more fire power.lol.

I'm guessing she is the fastest or one of the fastest because Yoruichi is touted as the fastest shinigami alive (well dead) and Soi Fon seemed to be keeping up with her quite well. The difference between them was the mastery of Shunko and not so much speed, even though I concede Yoruichi would be faster. Also both Yoruichi and Soi Fon were fast enough to get the drop on Aizen, who is MEANT to be incr fast as well.

As for sending more captains, I hear what you're saying and I would do that if that mission was a priority for me but for me it wouldnt come close to being a priority. I picked the team with the idea of get in, do damage, get Ichigo and co and bug out. I'd much rather have Byakuya's ultimate badassery next to me when Aizen and his top espada come a knockin'. Id like to have soi fon as well but she could be helpful for an extraction mission. Beside I imagine she could probably terminate 2-3 of the lowest level espada in shikai lol

Eddy01741
July 16, 2009, 03:24 PM
Well... in hindsight of the battles, Kubo did match up the captains against perfect opponents in HM.

Evil genius vs. even better evil genius.
Guy who can control things vs. guy who has 1 million things to control and a bakudou to block it.
Crazy strong reiatsu physical fighter guy vs. even crazier and even stronger reiatsu physical fighter guy.

And of course the reinforcements from 4th squad were nice, since Orihime was being held captive by Ulquiorra and all.

So the only possibility is Yammi, but we don't know his fighting style in resurreccion. If it is the same as non resureccion (slow, powerful, dumb), then Ken would be a matchup for him as well, except Ken still knows battle tactics, he just purposely decides to ignore them (he knew that kendo would increase his power, but only used it as last resort, same with bells on his head decreasing power, and eyepatch). However, it's possible that Kubo will match up Unohana perfectly with Yammi in the end, so we don't know.

However, without the hindsight, and with the limited info on espada they had from before, I do think that Yama made good choices.

At the time, they did not know AIzen's move, yes, they predicted an atttack on KT, and they set up FKT and all, but they were not sure when AIzen would attack, or at least Ichigo's reaction suggested that they didn't know when Aizen would attack. So sending in mostly mid-tier captains+Unohana and 4th squad for support (and hopefully more from Unohana) seemed like the right decision. Since sending in lower tier captains might might end badly, at that time they didn't know exactly how strong the espada were. And sending only strong captains would leave FKT/SS defenseless against Aizen and the espadas.

All in all, I think Yama made the right choice from the info he had, and in hindsight, with Kubos incredible Captain-Espada matching abilities, it was completely successful save for Yammi, who we are still waiting for.

poobert
July 17, 2009, 10:55 AM
Firstly you cant send Hitsugaya to HM as he needs water and there is none there. He's a good bet for the real world.


So Halibel is next to useless on her home turf?


I think we have to consider that Yama did not know they would be stuck, so he would send a small but very skilled group.

Ken and Unohana seem to be a nobrainer. He had to assume that they needed healery and Ken should be able to easily take care of any hollows, menos, adjucas or whatever they encounter. I also think he would have asked to go. Something about being in the middle of the enemy territory seems like his thing.

Mauri knows what he is doing and should anything go wrong, he would have the best chance of fixing it.

The last I think was reserved for a flexible character. Hitsu, byakuya (gin if he was a goody) would be good choices. They didn't know what was going to happen so someone adaptable is good. Byakuya probably just has more experience.

Mifune_Taichou
July 17, 2009, 12:09 PM
So Halibel is next to useless on her home turf?


I think we have to consider that Yama did not know they would be stuck, so he would send a small but very skilled group.

Ken and Unohana seem to be a nobrainer. He had to assume that they needed healery and Ken should be able to easily take care of any hollows, menos, adjucas or whatever they encounter. I also think he would have asked to go. Something about being in the middle of the enemy territory seems like his thing.

Mauri knows what he is doing and should anything go wrong, he would have the best chance of fixing it.

The last I think was reserved for a flexible character. Hitsu, byakuya (gin if he was a goody) would be good choices. They didn't know what was going to happen so someone adaptable is good. Byakuya probably just has more experience.

I know it sounds weird but Hitsu said he needs/can use water in the atmosphere to reforge his bankai and we know for a fact there is no water in HM.

L0ki
July 17, 2009, 01:41 PM
If I were the old man and weren't a dimwit like him I wouldn't have sent anyone.

Mifune_Taichou
July 17, 2009, 02:16 PM
If I were the old man and weren't a dimwit like him I wouldn't have sent anyone.

Lol yes that MIGHt have been the way to go. In the grand scheme of things (if you dont KNOW youre in a manga and Ichigo is the main character) Ichigo and his friends dont matter- I wouldnt risk the lives of one of my precious captains to go save Ichigo tbh much less orihime. The way Yama played it there is no benefit to sending 4 captains there as they could have brutally murdered their opponents victims in FKT just as easily and been around for seconds.

Eddy01741
July 17, 2009, 02:53 PM
Well, for the halibel being useless in Hm issue, I don't think she ever said she needed the surrounding moisture to make her water attacks, so presumably she might be able to just make water out of just her reiatsu or something like that. Hitsu on the other hand... is not so fortunate, at least with the reformation of his bankai.

poobert
July 17, 2009, 04:30 PM
I know it sounds weird but Hitsu said he needs/can use water in the atmosphere to reforge his bankai and we know for a fact there is no water in HM.

If you were correct, then his would be the only situational bankai I can think of. That is a pretty huge disadvantage considering even Rukia didn't have any problems icing up HM.

Maybe it is more like an extra thing his bankai can do, should he be near water. The reforging of his bankai if he looses a fight and it shatters. The ice prison thing he did to luppi and the snow rain thingy.

Most shinigami are self contained fighting machines. It seems disappointing if Hitsu wasn't :(

Mifune_Taichou
July 18, 2009, 08:13 AM
If you were correct, then his would be the only situational bankai I can think of. That is a pretty huge disadvantage considering even Rukia didn't have any problems icing up HM.

Maybe it is more like an extra thing his bankai can do, should he be near water. The reforging of his bankai if he looses a fight and it shatters. The ice prison thing he did to luppi and the snow rain thingy.

Most shinigami are self contained fighting machines. It seems disappointing if Hitsu wasn't :(

Yh I hope you're right. It would be a massive let down if Rukia can do something he cant. If it IS an extra thing then we've just stumbled on his next massive plotkai lol. Hallibell will seemingly defeat him/his bankai will vanish then she'll start fighting someone else. She'll be winning and then he'll be back and put her in The Ice prison thing. I can just see/feel that happening.

-Ren Boy-
July 18, 2009, 08:20 AM
If I were the old man and weren't a dimwit like him I wouldn't have sent anyone.

then Ichigo and co will die and soul society will still have to fight the 10 espadas.

Don't forget ichigo plays a big role in soul society, and thats why yama forbidded ichigo to go

Mifune_Taichou
July 18, 2009, 08:52 AM
then Ichigo and co will die and soul society will still have to fight the 10 espadas.

Don't forget ichigo plays a big role in soul society, and thats why yama forbidded ichigo to go

tbh I still can quite figure out why people say he saved SS or something-Aizen did everything he wanted and then retreated because he was about to be gang r***d by all of SS. ALl Ichigo did there was to get almost cut in half. SUre he saved rukia but Aizen still got his hogyoku. The two people who could be said to have "exposed" Aizen were Unohana and Hitsugaya, all be it Hitsugaya thought he was going to expose Gin lol. Ichigo shouldnt get credit for that.

What he should get credit for is taking out 2 espada and one Privaron. That was awesome and a great help to SS but he hadnt done that at the time Yama decided to risk 4 people who should be worth more than him to go save him. TBH I think what forced Yama's hand was more that whatever he did Byakuya would end up rushing to HM to save Rukia and Zaraki would go to murder Arrancar and he would probably be powerless to stop them, so why not turn it into an official serach and rescue and get the credit lol

Darek Khort
July 19, 2009, 09:25 AM
Meh, Yama probably sent 4 captains because Orihime was in HM and if Yama had any idea of her ability he probably concluded that Aizen would use Orihime to reject the event of Urahara sealing the Hougyoku's full power; thus returning it to full power.

Given the information available at the time Yama probably realised the most pressing issue was to get her back.

1. I do believe Mayuri was a good choice. Research, get new intel/etc. He probably wanted to go too given he's a scientist. If an astronomer was given a chance to go study stars/moons/planets on the actual planets, they'd probably go there right away.

2. Kenpachi was a good choice too. He probably wanted to go too. Afterall, he loves fighting but in SS he doesn't really have many people to fight. And I'm sure any hollows that go to SS on the odd occasion probably can be handled by ranked subordinates.

3. Byakuya probably asked to go due to Rukia. Given his experience I assume Yama thought it alright for him to go.

4. Unohana was the wrong choice. Should have just sent her VC, or just Hanatarou. Unohana should have either stayed in SS or more likely be in Fake KT to heal the wounded.

Of course, Yama wouldn't have sent Unohana if he was not in a manga. Unfortunately this is a manga and if Unohana was in FKT than any damage that the good guys got wouldn't have been as shocking because Unohana would have easily been able to heal them.

Mifune_Taichou
July 19, 2009, 09:44 AM
Meh, Yama probably sent 4 captains because Orihime was in HM and if Yama had any idea of her ability he probably concluded that Aizen would use Orihime to reject the event of Urahara sealing the Hougyoku's full power; thus returning it to full power.

Given the information available at the time Yama probably realised the most pressing issue was to get her back.

1. I do believe Mayuri was a good choice. Research, get new intel/etc. He probably wanted to go too given he's a scientist. If an astronomer was given a chance to go study stars/moons/planets on the actual planets, they'd probably go there right away.

2. Kenpachi was a good choice too. He probably wanted to go too. Afterall, he loves fighting but in SS he doesn't really have many people to fight. And I'm sure any hollows that go to SS on the odd occasion probably can be handled by ranked subordinates.

3. Byakuya probably asked to go due to Rukia. Given his experience I assume Yama thought it alright for him to go.

4. Unohana was the wrong choice. Should have just sent her VC, or just Hanatarou. Unohana should have either stayed in SS or more likely be in Fake KT to heal the wounded.

Of course, Yama wouldn't have sent Unohana if he was not in a manga. Unfortunately this is a manga and if Unohana was in FKT than any damage that the good guys got wouldn't have been as shocking because Unohana would have easily been able to heal them.

I think the one point we're all agreed on is that sending Unohana was a brain fart of massive proportions. Theres just no need to send your chief healer on an invasion when Yama himself refused to send her out in the Vaizrd gaiden.

When it comes to Byakuya its a tough choice. If Hitsugaya could in fact fight normally in HM and would simply lose the power to reforge his bankai then tactically it made more sense to send him as hed be strong enough to take out the level of Espada Byakuya did while at least in my view BYakuya is still the stronger and is best kept in reserve. I honestly dont think Hallibell could survive Byakuya. Strategically however it was probably best to send him because

1. his mind would be on Rukia even if he stayed behind and

2. Hitsugaya is supposed to become the next best thing after Yamajii/replace him so keeping him back where he could make sure he survives until he does become an unstoppable killing machine like Yama would be a good bet.

L0ki
July 19, 2009, 06:15 PM
then Ichigo and co will die and soul society will still have to fight the 10 espadas.

Don't forget ichigo plays a big role in soul society, and thats why yama forbidded ichigo to go

Eh... 9 and 6 were already down by the time SS arrived to HM. They'd have still've had the number advantage and the fact of not being split up, especially from the healing squad.

Dark God Zeus
July 19, 2009, 11:47 PM
If Byakuya wanted/asked to go, Yama had the choice to pimp slap him and say no. He did the same with Urahara in turn back the pendelum.

Tsukisama
July 19, 2009, 11:51 PM
I think the one point we're all agreed on is that sending Unohana was a brain fart of massive proportions. Theres just no need to send your chief healer on an invasion when Yama himself refused to send her out in the Vaizrd gaiden.

I don't think sending Unohana was actually that bad of an idea. The idea behind their mission was to rescue Ichigo and his friends in Hueco Mundo. It wasn't supposed to be a full-scale invasion but more of a surgical strike. Thus, Yamamoto needed to send in an elite group of powerful captains.

On the mission, a healer is essential to heal the injured (of Ichigo's party and the rescuers). It was unknown how powerful the enemy would be, and thus if the rescue team encountered a very dangerous opponent and needed healing, I doubt that Isane or a lower ranked 4th division member could protect and heal the rescue party.

The situation is radically different than the situation during the gaiden. During the gaiden, a completely unknown process was occuring. At that time, no one had any idea what was happening or who/what was causing it to happen. It was something that had not ever been apparently encountered before in the history of SS. Thus, it wouldn't have made sense to send a healer (not Unohana or even a low-ranked member of the 4th division), because what was happening was not understood and they would be rather needlessly at risk. It made more sense to request the services of someone from the Kidou Corps, who presumably deals with using kidou in various ways that might be better equipped to handle the situation.

For this mission, the situation is much more well-known. The rescue team would be infiltrating Hueco Mundo, Aizen's stronghold, where they would encounter powerful arrancar and possibly the three traitor captains. The abilities of the arrancar are unknown, but that is an unknown that the Gotei 13 always faces when they oppose hollow. The main unknown in this situation was the power of the opponents, and so a powerful healer was needed: Unohana.

Captain Unohana is a member of Gotei 13, the military organization of the Soul Society. Not only that, she is a captain, and from the way she has been characterized thus far, she is probably a fairly powerful one at that. She is a soldier and can take care of herself. Yes, she is valuable to the Gotei 13 as the chief healer, but Mayuri is also valuable as the chief researcher that Gotei 13 and he also was assigned to go. They are captains and should be expecting to take on missions and use their skills to help.

Also, to say Unohana shouldn't have been sent to HM because now she is not present for the battle in fake Karakura is a bit fallacious IMO. Firstly, SS did not know that Aizen was going to strike when he did. They were preparing for him to strike and (through the great deus ex machina that is Kubo) managed to have all of the preparations in place in the nick of time when he decided to attack. Secondly, SS forces did not anticipate Aizen being able to lock the rescue team in Hueco Mundo. They thought that they would complete their objective and then exit. If SS had the foresight to plan for such an outcome, perhaps they would have planned differently, but once again they underestimated Aizen and he threw a monkey wrench in their plans.

If I were Yamamoto (and I were constrained to send four Gotei 13 captains like the thread starter outlined), I would send the four captains that Yamamoto selected. Each of them plays a key role and are good choices for the mission.

Starzen
July 20, 2009, 08:39 AM
one thing I would like to add, yama realized the mistake of a hundred years ago and the save rukia assault. That is never underestimate your opponents and to send specialist instead of normal captains. He also took Ichigo into consideration and that he keeps on getting stronger after each fight.

ganjabuss
July 21, 2009, 04:17 AM
i think yama made his decision based on the fact ichigo and co. defeated the four captains sent to HM.....byakuya and kenpachi by ichigo, mayuri by quincy boy, unohana and 4th division mainly by chad[that's why captains were brought in]...

Eddy01741
July 21, 2009, 09:30 AM
Well, for the Unohana comments, there's still hope for Unohana v Yammi.....

Tsukisama
July 21, 2009, 06:14 PM
i think yama made his decision based on the fact ichigo and co. defeated the four captains sent to HM.....byakuya and kenpachi by ichigo, mayuri by quincy boy, unohana and 4th division mainly by chad[that's why captains were brought in]...

I'm thinking this is probably a joke, but since I don't see a smilie that gives off the jocular impression, I am not sure. If this isn't a joke, I don't think Yamamoto would make a decision like that. Plus, Chad didn't defeat anyone in the 4th division IIRC, and Unohana didn't even personally encounter any of SS intruders.

kkck
July 21, 2009, 08:31 PM
I don't think aizen made a wrong choice with any of the captains he chose.

Unohana: She was a MUST. She is a perfect combination of caring healer and badass. If you want to break into an enemy fortress and save a bunch of people you need someone that can heal as much as destroy.

Mayuri: The brains.

Kempachi: The muscles, pure raw kickass. Given the nature of the mission I would think you need someone specifically to exterminate things.

Byakuya: Well rounded fighter and arguably the strongest captain after the older captains. Not to mention his sister and VC are already in HM, he is bound to take responsability.
[hr]

I'm thinking this is probably a joke, but since I don't see a smilie that gives off the jocular impression, I am not sure. If this isn't a joke, I don't think Yamamoto would make a decision like that. Plus, Chad didn't defeat anyone in the 4th division IIRC, and Unohana didn't even personally encounter any of SS intruders.

I am pretty sure he confused the 4th with the 11th division. The 4th division doesn't even fight. Chad did defeat the entire 11th division with the exception of kempachi, ikkaku, yumuchika and yachiru(basically anyone that matters).

ganjabuss
July 21, 2009, 08:54 PM
I'm thinking this is probably a joke, but since I don't see a smilie that gives off the jocular impression, I am not sure. If this isn't a joke, I don't think Yamamoto would make a decision like that. Plus, Chad didn't defeat anyone in the 4th division IIRC, and Unohana didn't even personally encounter any of SS intruders.

it was a joke definitely...defeat doesn't always have to come through fighting...i meant becoz of chad 4th division couldn't keep up with healing the injured...that's why yama told the caps to take action, u can see unohana smiling after yama gave that order...

Tsukisama
July 21, 2009, 11:59 PM
it was a joke definitely...defeat doesn't always have to come through fighting...i meant becoz of chad 4th division couldn't keep up with healing the injured...that's why yama told the caps to take action, u can see unohana smiling after yama gave that order...

Actually, it seems that the reason Yamamoto had the captains engage was due to the severe condition in which Renji was found (refer here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/99/19/)), which makes more sense as vice-captains are seen as being an eschelon above officers of low rank. When we see a close-up of Unohana's face here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/99/20/), it doesn't really seem to me like much of a smile, more like her usual calm expression.

Anyway, it seems to have been a joke, and I don't really want this discussion to get off-topic on this.

EDIT:Thanks to Dark God Zeus for noticing the bad link :D

Raizen
July 22, 2009, 12:18 AM
I think yama's choice of captains were correct.
The reason unohana was chosen was not only because she is the best healer but she is also implied to be extremely powerful. SO he needed to send a powerhouse into enemy territory just in case.

As for hitsu not being able to use his bankai in HM. That is ridiculous. He stated as long as there is moisture in the air, his bankai can't be destroyed. So he can still use bankai, but it can't reform as many times as he usually could

Mifune_Taichou
July 22, 2009, 12:31 PM
I think yama's choice of captains were correct.
The reason unohana was chosen was not only because she is the best healer but she is also implied to be extremely powerful. SO he needed to send a powerhouse into enemy territory just in case.

As for hitsu not being able to use his bankai in HM. That is ridiculous. He stated as long as there is moisture in the air, his bankai can't be destroyed. So he can still use bankai, but it can't reform as many times as he usually could

see while that would make sense i didnt take it to mean that purely because it would make his bankai ridiculously hax...but i guess after the hallibell fight...

Aikidoka
July 24, 2009, 04:57 PM
Great topic choice. I agree, stupid idea to send the 4th division considering they only had Kira left and he doesn’t even count.

Yama sent the 4 to get the Drifters out right? If it were me I'd also try to send the captains to wreak havoc as well, rock the bad guys a bit.

1) Kenpachi, my first choice. He'd go on a rampage, I'd definitely rely on him to cause havoc in HM.

2) Mayuri, to serve a dual role, the second to gather info about HM since SS doesn't have enough intel on HM.

3) Soi Fon. Assuming Yama knows of her Bankai's abilities...I would order her to go BanKai upon getting the Drifters out, and nuke Las Noches. Boom. Base gone. Maybe aim at the foundations since the blast may not cover the whole thing. Destroy destroy destroy.

4) Komamura, cause lots of havoc while rescuing the Drifters.

I'd send Hanataro or Isane along just to back them up as healers.

Mifune_Taichou
July 25, 2009, 05:43 AM
Great topic choice. I agree, stupid idea to send the 4th division considering they only had Kira left and he doesn’t even count.

Yama sent the 4 to get the Drifters out right? If it were me I'd also try to send the captains to wreak havoc as well, rock the bad guys a bit.

1) Kenpachi, my first choice. He'd go on a rampage, I'd definitely rely on him to cause havoc in HM.

2) Mayuri, to serve a dual role, the second to gather info about HM since SS doesn't have enough intel on HM.

3) Soi Fon. Assuming Yama knows of her Bankai's abilities...I would order her to go BanKai upon getting the Drifters out, and nuke Las Noches. Boom. Base gone. Maybe aim at the foundations since the blast may not cover the whole thing. Destroy destroy destroy.

4) Komamura, cause lots of havoc while rescuing the Drifters.

I'd send Hanataro or Isane along just to back them up as healers.

for my part, I agree with this 100%. Thats exactly how it should have been done. Imagine Aizen going back to Las Noches to find the post soi Fon/Komamura Fall out lol. Not to mention Mayuri could spread poison everywhere with his Bankai.

Dark God Zeus
July 25, 2009, 01:57 PM
Great topic choice. I agree, stupid idea to send the 4th division considering they only had Kira left and he doesn’t even count.

Yama sent the 4 to get the Drifters out right? If it were me I'd also try to send the captains to wreak havoc as well, rock the bad guys a bit.

1) Kenpachi, my first choice. He'd go on a rampage, I'd definitely rely on him to cause havoc in HM.

2) Mayuri, to serve a dual role, the second to gather info about HM since SS doesn't have enough intel on HM.

3) Soi Fon. Assuming Yama knows of her Bankai's abilities...I would order her to go BanKai upon getting the Drifters out, and nuke Las Noches. Boom. Base gone. Maybe aim at the foundations since the blast may not cover the whole thing. Destroy destroy destroy.

4) Komamura, cause lots of havoc while rescuing the Drifters.

I'd send Hanataro or Isane along just to back them up as healers. I agree 100% as well, in hindsight from my original list, haha. And Yama has to see that each of the potential captains can use bankai, so he would know their bankai.

Also, it's supposed to be an extraction mission as well. Assuming Soi Fon is supposed to be fast, it fits her role too.

But I would send Hanataro, Isane, the blond guy who was shown alot (4th division), and then maybe more fodder 4th division.

Zatono
July 25, 2009, 07:18 PM
Personally, I'd send everyone Yama sent, except swap out Unohana with Soifon, but still keep Isane and Hana.

Soifon could probably 2HKO Yammy fast enough, he's so huge she could probably just pierce anywhere twice.

Either that or switch her out with Byakuya. I'm sure the bankai nuke could kill Zommari, and Byakuya's shikai and bankai would probably be a lot more effective on Barragan, not to mention Byakuya's got kido on his side.

Mifune_Taichou
July 25, 2009, 07:47 PM
Personally, I'd send everyone Yama sent, except swap out Unohana with Soifon, but still keep Isane and Hana.

Soifon could probably 2HKO Yammy fast enough, he's so huge she could probably just pierce anywhere twice.

Either that or switch her out with Byakuya. I'm sure the bankai nuke could kill Zommari, and Byakuya's shikai and bankai would probably be a lot more effective on Barragan, not to mention Byakuya's got kido on his side.

Yh I think Soi fon would defo have been a good pick for that mission. If nothing else, shes fast she could get Ichigo/Orihime and RUN, Starrk style.

Also if I were Yama I'd feel a lot better about facing the top 3 if Byakuya was there-I mean obvioulsy if i were Yama i could killed each one of the top 3 espada without paying attention but id feel better about the battle as a whole lol.

poobert
July 28, 2009, 04:22 AM
Thinking back to the pendulum arc, Yama wanted to send the Kido captain instead of Unohana, so that he could do healery and it would not put the main healer on the front line before they were aware of the situation.

I think the situation is the same. Yama didn't know what the situation was so he sent the same balanced party, with the exception that he didn't have a "Shinji" to send. If anything should crap up, you need an experienced captain with so much power that they could wipe away a vastolord or two (yama knows Aizen should have some by now).

I postulate that there is no kido captain at the moment good enough to do the healing to replace Unohana. There is also no "Shinji" to send and considering that Ukitake and Shunsui are a killer pair, they are better off being the last line of defence. Therefore the reason for sending Unohana was two fold. The best healer and someone who can mop up, should things turn sour.

But I still reckon that Ken went just because he felt like it.

Mifune_Taichou
July 28, 2009, 01:52 PM
Thinking back to the pendulum arc, Yama wanted to send the Kido captain instead of Unohana, so that he could do healery and it would not put the main healer on the front line before they were aware of the situation.

I think the situation is the same. Yama didn't know what the situation was so he sent the same balanced party, with the exception that he didn't have a "Shinji" to send. If anything should crap up, you need an experienced captain with so much power that they could wipe away a vastolord or two (yama knows Aizen should have some by now).

I postulate that there is no kido captain at the moment good enough to do the healing to replace Unohana. There is also no "Shinji" to send and considering that Ukitake and Shunsui are a killer pair, they are better off being the last line of defence. Therefore the reason for sending Unohana was two fold. The best healer and someone who can mop up, should things turn sour.

But I still reckon that Ken went just because he felt like it.

Yh he so did lol. I have to say though while I am also sure that Shinji was a BEAST even then we dont know if he was and how much stronger than say Byakuya is now.

kkck
July 28, 2009, 03:02 PM
Why do so many people think unohana was a bad choice or that yama for whatever reason should not have sent her? Considering how the story has moved I would think anyone but her would have been a grave mistake. Isane should be a great healer, but she alone would have been unreliable in HM. Just one fight with a fraccion or numero would have at the very least exhaust her which would mean she would have been unable to heal the injured. on the other hand unohana has the skills to either scare or beat the shit out of the ordinary numero/fraccion fodder(as she did with rudobon) and rapidly heal anyone. She even has the strength to at least hold her ground against an espada(against whom people such as isane and hanotarou would not have lasted a second). Not sending unohana would have been a grave mistake IMO.

Raizen
July 28, 2009, 03:40 PM
Why do so many people think unohana was a bad choice or that yama for whatever reason should not have sent her? Considering how the story has moved I would think anyone but her would have been a grave mistake. Isane should be a great healer, but she alone would have been unreliable in HM. Just one fight with a fraccion or numero would have at the very least exhaust her which would mean she would have been unable to heal the injured. on the other hand unohana has the skills to either scare or beat the shit out of the ordinary numero/fraccion fodder(as she did with rudobon) and rapidly heal anyone. She even has the strength to at least hold her ground against an espada(against whom people such as isane and hanotarou would not have lasted a second). Not sending unohana would have been a grave mistake IMO.
Exactly, going into the heart of the enemy's terriotry requires you to send one of your best man (unohana) to make sure all your men are safe and protected

Mifune_Taichou
July 30, 2009, 07:10 AM
Exactly, going into the heart of the enemy's terriotry requires you to send one of your best man (unohana) to make sure all your men are safe and protected

I agree but I think Unohana is too valuable to SS to risk like that.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 10:50 AM
I agree but I think Unohana is too valuable to SS to risk like that.

The alternative was not sendig healers though. Hanatarou cannot fight at all and should isane meet a numero/fraccion or an espada, she would have been mostly unable to heal anyone due to either exhaustion or death. All in all, the decision was whether to send healers or not and since they went for it, unohana was the best and only choice.

Mifune_Taichou
July 30, 2009, 11:21 AM
The alternative was not sendig healers though. Hanatarou cannot fight at all and should isane meet a numero/fraccion or an espada, she would have been mostly unable to heal anyone due to either exhaustion or death. All in all, the decision was whether to send healers or not and since they went for it, unohana was the best and only choice.

True. I still think there were ways around it however. For example sending someone like Hachi from the Kido core plus 4th div VC, 3rd seat and Hanatarrou. I mean look how well Kira is doing and he isnt even proper 4th division. if they send some supplement troups to fight fraccion they could have done with the weaker 4th div members. For example:

send Isane, the 3rd Seat and hannatarou and also send Ukitake's 3rd seats to guard them from Fraccion. dnt forget Yachiru would be there too with Zaraki, as well as Nemu with mayuri so thats 4 VC level combatants to protect the healers from fodder fraccion while the captains smite the big fry. Add to that the Kido core VC and you're good. I dunno thats how I would have done it anyway. Maybe even sent Nanao in as well so she does SOMETHING in this war.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 11:41 AM
True. I still think there were ways around it however. For example sending someone like Hachi from the Kido core plus 4th div VC, 3rd seat and Hanatarrou. I mean look how well Kira is doing and he isnt even proper 4th division. if they send some supplement troups to fight fraccion they could have done with the weaker 4th div members. For example:

send Isane, the 3rd Seat and hannatarou and also send Ukitake's 3rd seats to guard them from Fraccion. dnt forget Yachiru would be there too with Zaraki, as well as Nemu with mayuri so thats 4 VC level combatants to protect the healers from fodder fraccion while the captains smite the big fry. Add to that the Kido core VC and you're good. I dunno thats how I would have done it anyway. Maybe even sent Nanao in as well so she does SOMETHING in this war.

The kido corps could have been a good idea but it depends on the level they currently have. As for the 4th division 3rd seat and the two the 2 3rd seats from ukitake's division, I have serious doubts(it has been implied there is a significant difference in skill between normal 3rd seats and normal VC). To fight a fraccion/numero you need to have at the very least VC strength otherwise it is pointless. None of them strike me as having that sort of power for the time being. Not to mention that that particular group would have no way of surviving a real espada in a fight(unless suddenly all espada have fragile fishbowls for heads).

All in all, for a healer to be useful or successful in HM, he had to be strong enough to kill and espada and easily defeat fodder(numero's and stuff) and skilled enough to heal everyone incredibly fast. If the selected person fell short in either aspect, then that person was utterly and hopelessly useless. The only one we currently know of who has such skill is unohana and no one else.

Mifune_Taichou
July 30, 2009, 11:48 AM
The kido corps could have been a good idea but it depends on the level they currently have. As for the 4th division 3rd seat and the two the 2 3rd seats from ukitake's division, I have serious doubts(it has been implied there is a significant difference in skill between normal 3rd seats and normal VC). To fight a fraccion/numero you need to have at the very least VC strength otherwise it is pointless. None of them strike me as having that sort of power for the time being. Not to mention that that particular group would have no way of surviving a real espada in a fight(unless suddenly all espada have fragile fishbowls for heads).

All in all, for a healer to be useful or successful in HM, he had to be strong enough to kill and espada and easily defeat fodder(numero's and stuff) and skilled enough to heal everyone incredibly fast. If the selected person fell short in either aspect, then that person was utterly and hopelessly useless. The only one we currently know of who has such skill is unohana and no one else.

I know I know but at a certain point you have to ask yourself-would you rather Unohana healed the captains you send or the captains you left behind. Considering I would personally send:

Komamura, zaraki, mayuri and Soi Fon my thinking is-Komamura and Zaraki can take it/are hard to damage. Mayuri can heal himself probably and Soi Fon is hard to hit. On the flipside id want my best healer there to heal people like Byakuya, Hitsugaya Ukitake, shunsui etc who are more human and some (Shunsui/Ukitake) more important.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 12:08 PM
I know I know but at a certain point you have to ask yourself-would you rather Unohana healed the captains you send or the captains you left behind. Considering I would personally send:

Komamura, zaraki, mayuri and Soi Fon my thinking is-Komamura and Zaraki can take it/are hard to damage. Mayuri can heal himself probably and Soi Fon is hard to hit. On the flipside id want my best healer there to heal people like Byakuya, Hitsugaya Ukitake, shunsui etc who are more human and some (Shunsui/Ukitake) more important.

You are forgetting a mayor detail though. The gotei 13 did not send the captains to HM knowing the war was going to be fought a few hours from that moment. They were prepared, but they still expected to fight it during the winter a few months from now. The gotei 13 sent the captains as a backup and rescue team so that the ichigo and co could fight the war in the future. Of course they miscalculated but still.

Even if they had known the war was going to be fought at that moment, sending unohana would have been the only option though. It would not have change the fact that whoever they sent was going to fight numero/fraccion and espada and still had to heal the injured.

poobert
July 30, 2009, 12:48 PM
You are forgetting a mayor detail though. The gotei 13 did not send the captains to HM knowing the war was going to be fought a few hours from that moment.

Exactly, which is why it is so similar to the pendulum arc. Either Unohana or the kido chief would have to go as you need a superb healer, who can escort injured people safely.

Either the Kido chief right now is rubbish or they don't exist. Or most likely, Unohana is just way more capable. The captains had to retrieve all the shinigami/humans from HM and bring them back safe. Nothing does that better than the flying monster thing. Not to mention Unohana can absolutely take care of herself AND anyone she is with.

If only we knew who the Kido chief was.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 01:30 PM
I forgot to mention that there was also the captains being trapped detail. The gotei 13 also probably did not consider the possibilty of the 4 captains sent there being held captive on the dimension. In that sense, even if they did expect the war to begin soon, they could have just cross the garganta back home. That was one of the things kisuke was supposed to do, make sure the captains are able to do battle.

Raizen
July 30, 2009, 01:40 PM
I agree but I think Unohana is too valuable to SS to risk like that.
Yama was not risking her, after all he has been with her for centuries so he knows what he is capable of. He wanted to make sure tha there is not only a powerful healer but also a powerful fighter too

Tsukisama
July 30, 2009, 02:54 PM
Exactly, which is why it is so similar to the pendulum arc. Either Unohana or the kido chief would have to go as you need a superb healer, who can escort injured people safely.

Either the Kido chief right now is rubbish or they don't exist. Or most likely, Unohana is just way more capable. The captains had to retrieve all the shinigami/humans from HM and bring them back safe. Nothing does that better than the flying monster thing. Not to mention Unohana can absolutely take care of herself AND anyone she is with.

If only we knew who the Kido chief was.

While it is possible that the Kidou Corps may not have yet replaced Tessai and even Hachigen, there are other reasons as to why someone from the Kidou Corps probably wouldn't be sent. The main reason is that this rescue mission doesn't seem to be something that the Kidou Corps would normally handle. This mission has Gotei 13 written all over it.

From what little we know about the Kidou Corps, it is a secretive entity that exists separately from the other branches of Soul Society's armed forces, and it apparently deals with a select set of affairs. The rescue mission to save Ichigo and friends is not something that would justify the Kidou Corps getting involved unlike the situation a hundred years ago when an unknown phenomenon was plaguing Soul Society.

There is nothing highly abnormal involved in the rescue mission. It was just a mission to get Ichigo and friends out of HM quickly and safely. The Kidou Corps isn't responsible for general protection of humans and souls; that is the responsibility of Gotei 13. Just like we could query why the Kidou Corps didn't handle this rescue mission, we could also query why the Covert Ops didn't handle this mission, and the reason is that this mission didn't fall under their jurisdiction.

So, while the Kidou Corps member probably could have been of use on this mission, one shouldn't expect them to be summoned for something like this.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 03:04 PM
The kido corps were sent before because their ability with kido could prove useful in enexpected situations. Yamamoto did not sent them as a replacement for healers. On the other hand, healers were needed in this backup mission so unohana for reasons I have already mentioned was the best and only choice for the job.

Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u
August 11, 2009, 12:00 PM
I know it sounds weird but Hitsu said he needs/can use water in the atmosphere to reforge his bankai and we know for a fact there is no water in HM.

He can probably use the Reshi particles to create water. And considering that the Reshi particles are abundant in HM, it would be a simple task for Hitsugaya.
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-132/page005.html
Anyway I'd send

Everyone Yamma sent accept Isane. I think its a bad idea to send the Captain and Vice Captain of the Medical Corp to the same location. Also, I would have sent about a thousand fodder Shinigami including a sizeable detatchment of the Medical Corp. Then send 1400 Shinigami including Isane
to FKT, the remaining 1500 would remain at SS, led by the Kidou Captain.

kkck
August 11, 2009, 02:08 PM
Everyone Yamma sent accept Isane. I think its a bad idea to send the Captain and Vice Captain of the Medical Corp to the same location. Also, I would have sent about a thousand fodder Shinigami including a sizeable detatchment of the Medical Corp. Then send 1400 Shinigami including Isane
to FKT, the remaining 1500 would remain at SS, led by the Kidou Captain.

That would probably be a bad idea IMO. A menos is a creature which only elite shinigami can fight with. In each division there are 18 seated officers which are considered elite(captains and VC not include). That means that only 234 shinigami in SS can fight at least on par with a menos. Someone told me the manga stated only 5th seats and up could defeat menos but I have never been able to confirm it. If that is true then the number of shinigami who can fight menos is even smaller. Las noches has been implied hundreds of incomplete arrancar(which are stronger than menos as GF proved), at least 88 numeros and fraccion(numbers go from 11 to 99) then there are privaron espada and finally the espada.

In that sense the sheer military power las noches has should be superior to the one SS has at the moment. Even then, fighting with anything less than a espada is absurd given the absurd power difference between the captains and the menos so far. Invading las noches in the way you suggest would have been a terrible idea IMO.

Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u
August 11, 2009, 02:52 PM
That would probably be a bad idea IMO. A menos is a creature which only elite shinigami can fight with. In each division there are 18 seated officers which are considered elite(captains and VC not include). That means that only 234 shinigami in SS can fight at least on par with a menos. Someone told me the manga stated only 5th seats and up could defeat menos but I have never been able to confirm it. If that is true then the number of shinigami who can fight menos is even smaller. Las noches has been implied hundreds of incomplete arrancar(which are stronger than menos as GF proved), at least 88 numeros and fraccion(numbers go from 11 to 99) then there are privaron espada and finally the espada.

In that sense the sheer military power las noches has should be superior to the one SS has at the moment. Even then, fighting with anything less than a espada is absurd given the absurd power difference between the captains and the menos so far. Invading las noches in the way you suggest would have been a terrible idea IMO.
Hundreds of Incomplete Arrancar? I don't know about that. But then again you could be right. However I'm sure a dozen foddergami could take down a Menos. Not to mention Captains could dice through those Incomplete Arrancar like fodder.
Oh Right and in the Anime (I know non-canon) even Hanatarou almost killed a Menos. The way I look at it Shinigami could fight them off using sheer numbers.
3900
vs.
say
1000
--
Also the Gotei 13 are elite Shinigami. The number of actual Shinigami including the other two elite groups, the Kidou Corp, and the Omitsikidou should number at least 10,000. Thats a 10 to 1 ratio.
I mean look, Karakura town has 100,000 people right. Even if that means that there is 1 Shinigami per 100,000 people, that is still about 60,000 Shinigami. And if its every town has a Shinigami there are 27,000 towns in the U.S. alone, 600,000 towns.
This isn't even counting the fighters who aren't even seated officers. I mean lets look at Rukia, who isn't even a seated officer (yes I know she's a special case) but at the same time, the four noble families each should have numerous members at Officer level, but are witheld from normal duties due to their status. Another good example is the number of powerful soldiers under the Kasumi-Ojii clan (Yes I know Anime but its rare that we get to see the inner workings of SS in the Manga)
Also we have
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zennosuke_Kurumadani
This guy not even a seated officer. My point being is that the Gotei 13 shouldn't be underestimated.
Also
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Toshimori_Umesada
The 9th division has 15 20th seats. Aside from VC any position can be shared so there can be numerous seated officers.
----
P.S. lets be honest how awesome would it be to see an all out war in the workings with thousands of combatants.

kkck
August 11, 2009, 03:30 PM
Hundreds of Incomplete Arrancar? I don't know about that. But then again you could be right. However I'm sure a dozen foddergami could take down a Menos. Not to mention Captains could dice through those Incomplete Arrancar like fodder.
Oh Right and in the Anime (I know non-canon) even Hanatarou almost killed a Menos. The way I look at it Shinigami could fight them off using sheer numbers.
3900
vs.
say
1000
--
Also the Gotei 13 are elite Shinigami. The number of actual Shinigami including the other two elite groups, the Kidou Corp, and the Omitsikidou should number at least 10,000. Thats a 10 to 1 ratio.
I mean look, Karakura town has 100,000 people right. Even if that means that there is 1 Shinigami per 100,000 people, that is still about 60,000 Shinigami. And if its every town has a Shinigami there are 27,000 towns in the U.S. alone, 600,000 towns.
This isn't even counting the fighters who aren't even seated officers. I mean lets look at Rukia, who isn't even a seated officer (yes I know she's a special case) but at the same time, the four noble families each should have numerous members at Officer level, but are witheld from normal duties due to their status. Another good example is the number of powerful soldiers under the Kasumi-Ojii clan (Yes I know Anime but its rare that we get to see the inner workings of SS in the Manga)
Also we have
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zennosuke_Kurumadani
This guy not even a seated officer. My point being is that the Gotei 13 shouldn't be underestimated.
Also
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Toshimori_Umesada
The 9th division has 15 20th seats. Aside from VC any position can be shared so there can be numerous seated officers.
----
P.S. lets be honest how awesome would it be to see an all out war in the workings with thousands of combatants.

I am still inclined to believe las noches is superior in numbers to soul society. At the very least it has a greater number of warriors with power on par or above a gillian(this would include numeros, fraccion, espada, privaron espada and fodder incomplete arrancar as grand fisher)

I also want to point out that "shinigami" is a title given to the members of the gotei 13. Only the elite are made shinigami but when talking about "elite shinigami" the context changes. The elite shinigami are esentially the seated officers. My point was that even among them the power to fight a gillian seems to be rare.

Also, the kasumi oji thing, and the hanatarou beating a menos thing, they are all fillers which means they are not cannon and have no impact on the manga whatsoever. As for the 1 shinigami for 50000 thousand people, I would think that is an inconsistensy lol, it makes no sense. We know for a fact that each division has around 200 members. I guess kubo has some explaining to do there lol.

Also, I am reasonably sure the thing about that guy being a 20th seat along with 15 other guys is a mistake lol.

A war in the way you suggest would be awesome, that's true but I do think there is a reason for which it has been avoided. Take a look at chad. The guy singlehandedly defeated the entire 11th division (without the top dogs) and yet later on he was easily treated like trash by an unreleased d-roy. D-roy was one of the weakest arrancar to date and probably did not even reach VC level yet chad was incapable of even reacting to him; yet chad defeated around 200 shinigami of the gotei 13 on his own. A war in the way you suggest would be pointless simply because the top dudes around are so insanely strong that they would brush away the thousands of numbers with 1 or 2 attacks. Just imagine byakuya against hundreds of imcomplete arrancar. Just his bankai alone would decimate them without byakuya even making a real effort. same thing would go for an espada. An entire division(save the captain) would be easily defeated by any espada(considering chad was capable of almost that).

El Samurai Guapo
August 11, 2009, 05:44 PM
I am still inclined to believe las noches is superior in numbers to soul society. At the very least it has a greater number of warriors with power on par or above a gillian(this would include numeros, fraccion, espada, privaron espada and fodder incomplete arrancar as grand fisher)

I also want to point out that "shinigami" is a title given to the members of the gotei 13. Only the elite are made shinigami but when talking about "elite shinigami" the context changes. The elite shinigami are esentially the seated officers. My point was that even among them the power to fight a gillian seems to be rare.

Also, the kasumi oji thing, and the hanatarou beating a menos thing, they are all fillers which means they are not cannon and have no impact on the manga whatsoever. As for the 1 shinigami for 50000 thousand people, I would think that is an inconsistensy lol, it makes no sense. We know for a fact that each division has around 200 members. I guess kubo has some explaining to do there lol.

Also, I am reasonably sure the thing about that guy being a 20th seat along with 15 other guys is a mistake lol.

A war in the way you suggest would be awesome, that's true but I do think there is a reason for which it has been avoided. Take a look at chad. The guy singlehandedly defeated the entire 11th division (without the top dogs) and yet later on he was easily treated like trash by an unreleased d-roy. D-roy was one of the weakest arrancar to date and probably did not even reach VC level yet chad was incapable of even reacting to him; yet chad defeated around 200 shinigami of the gotei 13 on his own. A war in the way you suggest would be pointless simply because the top dudes around are so insanely strong that they would brush away the thousands of numbers with 1 or 2 attacks. Just imagine byakuya against hundreds of imcomplete arrancar. Just his bankai alone would decimate them without byakuya even making a real effort. same thing would go for an espada. An entire division(save the captain) would be easily defeated by any espada(considering chad was capable of almost that).

I hope some more of the top 5 seated officers from different divisions are shown. I would imagine that the seated officers in the first division for example would be pretty powerful. Other than that I pretty much agree with the above.

Most shinigami are simply fodder...which I think is kind of dumb because, don't they all go through the same Academy? If all Shinigami have to go through the same academy, I don't see why there are such huge gaps in strength because they all received the same training. If that's the case then the academy must be useless, if some 15 year old kuso-gaki like Kurosaki Ichigo can, in a few days, surpass all the weaker shinigami and reach VC level

They should hire Urahara/Yoruichi to train all new recruits instead. They could probably get most of them to Shikai/Bankai level thousands of years earlier that they ordinarily would. Then you'd have hundreds of shinigami with Bankai, which would greatly increase Seireitei's military capacity.

Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u
August 11, 2009, 06:31 PM
I am still inclined to believe las noches is superior in numbers to soul society. At the very least it has a greater number of warriors with power on par or above a gillian(this would include numeros, fraccion, espada, privaron espada and fodder incomplete arrancar as grand fisher)
Well I consider the Numeros to be the equivalent of the seated officers. Privaron Espada are high Lieutenant level.


I also want to point out that "shinigami" is a title given to the members of the gotei 13. Only the elite are made shinigami but when talking about "elite shinigami" the context changes. The elite shinigami are esentially the seated officers. My point was that even among them the power to fight a gillian seems to be rare.
Hm this is true but that dude who replaced Rukia wasn't even a seated officer, and yet he had Shikai. This means that every seated officer has at the very least Shikai, and that puts them on Gillian level. It is true that a Captain-level fighter could obliterate an entire division of the lesser warriors, but I think every shinigami capable of Shikai is capable of posing a moderate threat to a Menos.
Also remember this guy in the Forest of Menos arc (Yes it is filler but filler made by Kishi himself.)
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ashido_Kan%C5%8D


Also, the kasumi oji thing, and the hanatarou beating a menos thing, they are all fillers which means they are not cannon and have no impact on the manga whatsoever. As for the 1 shinigami for 50000 thousand people, I would think that is an inconsistensy lol, it makes no sense. We know for a fact that each division has around 200 members. I guess kubo has some explaining to do there lol.

This is where my theory of the lesser Shinigami existing thing goes. I mean the fact that Sado easily blew threw a division is kind of ridiculous. The way I look at it is that the sheer number of Shinigami should be massive. I mean yes Sado's feat of blasting through the eighth division while impressive, makes me think that he happened to have picked the easiest route. I mean, the third seat was there for comic release...the idiot didn't even release his sword XD.

Also, I am reasonably sure the thing about that guy being a 20th seat along with 15 other guys is a mistake lol.

Maybe not remember
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/119/07/
Here's the scan XD
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/119/12/

A war in the way you suggest would be awesome, that's true but I do think there is a reason for which it has been avoided. Take a look at chad. The guy singlehandedly defeated the entire 11th division (without the top dogs) and yet later on he was easily treated like trash by an unreleased d-roy. D-roy was one of the weakest arrancar to date and probably did not even reach VC level yet chad was incapable of even reacting to him; yet chad defeated around 200 shinigami of the gotei 13 on his own. A war in the way you suggest would be pointless simply because the top dudes around are so insanely strong that they would brush away the thousands of numbers with 1 or 2 attacks. Just imagine byakuya against hundreds of imcomplete arrancar. Just his bankai alone would decimate them without byakuya even making a real effort. same thing would go for an espada. An entire division(save the captain) would be easily defeated by any espada(considering chad was capable of almost that).
This is true but I think some of the dudes he pwnd weren't even full Shinigami. I mean this guy's Zanpaktou bent XD
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/102/13/
The Academy Momo and CO had better showings than he did.