Pain VS Orochimaru

[Weapon_X]

So here is the battle. Pain VS Orochimaru

Conditions:

Orochimaru knows Pain's abilities beforehand.
Orochimaru is healthy.
Orochimaru can use ALL of his Jutsu's INCLUDING EDO TENSEI! He can only use it once to summon Kimimaro and 1st Hokage. :)
Orochimaru doesn't know Negato's location.

All six Pain bodies.
Pain is not trying to capture Oro but kill him.

The battle's location is Konoha crater. :amuse

An all out battle. Who ever dies, dies. Who would win?

[Dark God Zeus]

I don't see how Orochimaru can summon the first hokage when his soul is sealed.

But I would say Pain by far. In short, he was capable of fighting evenly with the 6 tails. Orochimaru was getting owned by Naruto's 3 tails.

[Galbert-Kun]

If Kimmimaro was fully healthy, he and the 1st would probably take 3-4 peins out. the 1st is strong enough to counter chibaku tensei, not sure about kimmimaro though. oro would lose still.

[Destined_One]

One of the strengths of Edo Tensei is the summon becomes invulnerable, and the only way of defeating them is to destroy the soul.. it just so happens that pain has that ability..

Kishimoto killed off Nagato/Pain for a reason.. he's overpowered, especially after the whole "Master of Life & Death" thing..

Hashirama is strong, but when he was summoned by Oro versus Hiruzen, he never showed quite enough to take out the 6th paths, let alone Nagato himself..

Kimimaro.. he has a strong KG, but at most he was stronger than a pre time skip Gaara and a weakened Lee /w no gates.. Pain defeated Kakashi & J_Man.. see the difference?

However Orochimaru won't roll over for pain.. It would take nearly everything pain has to kill him.. I mean hes died more times than Krillin, and he might still come back.

[adel123456789]

So here is the battle. Pain VS Orochimaru

Conditions:

Orochimaru knows Pain's abilities beforehand.
Orochimaru is healthy.
Orochimaru can use ALL of his Jutsu's INCLUDING EDO TENSEI! He can only use it once to summon Kimimaro and 1st Hokage. :)
Orochimaru doesn't know Negato's location.

All six Pain bodies.
Pain is not trying to capture Oro but kill him.

The battle's location is Konoha crater. :amuse

An all out battle. Who ever dies, dies. Who would win?
pien would still win because its like pien vs the third and gaara.

[Kuranzyan]

Kimimaro was powerful enough to overpower a Jinchuuriki. He fought a Kyuubi Naruto, a drunk Lee (however funny, he is practically unstoppable.) and Gaara in quick succession. He almost killed Gaara, at the very end of their battle.
Something tells me a CS2 Kimimaro would even be able to take out all six pains solo.

Oro would win from the 6 Pains, but fail to locate Nagato, and give up, simply because he isn't interested in the fight any more... His major flaw is that he loses interest in all kinds of stuff way too soon.

[kkck]

Kimimaro was powerful enough to overpower a Jinchuuriki. He fought a Kyuubi Naruto, a drunk Lee (however funny, he is practically unstoppable.) and Gaara in quick succession. He almost killed Gaara, at the very end of their battle.
Something tells me a CS2 Kimimaro would even be able to take out all six pains solo.

Oro would win from the 6 Pains, but fail to locate Nagato, and give up, simply because he isn't interested in the fight any more... His major flaw is that he loses interest in all kinds of stuff way too soon.

I seriously doubt that. I honestly believe a powerful enough shinra tensei from deva can just send kimimaru flying more than a few miles away. If that does not work, summons, fat pein and missiles would do wonders against him IMHO.

Mokuton was able to control biju, so I guess by extension shodaime could deal perfectly with peins summons. I still think a combination of asura, deva and fat pein would be enough to handle him though.


IMHO orochimari is the tricky one in this battle, even more so than kimimaru and shodai(that does not mean shodai is weaker than orochimaru though). Orochimaru would have just as much trouble as anyone else when dealing with deva. Asura would also work nicely against oro. Orochimaru could deal with fat pein with relative ease IMHO. He could use either poison or his sword to defeat him.That would also work on human pein. Orochimaru can summon manda and use his hydra jutsu, that would be more than enough to deal with peins summons.

IMHO it would not be an easy fight for either side but there is a small chance oro and co could pull it off with just a little luck.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

Kimimaro was powerful enough to overpower a Jinchuuriki. He fought a Kyuubi Naruto, a drunk Lee (however funny, he is practically unstoppable.) and Gaara in quick succession. He almost killed Gaara, at the very end of their battle.
Something tells me a CS2 Kimimaro would even be able to take out all six pains solo.

Oro would win from the 6 Pains, but fail to locate Nagato, and give up, simply because he isn't interested in the fight any more... His major flaw is that he loses interest in all kinds of stuff way too soon.

Let me stop you right there. Kimimaro was two years older than Naruto and Naruto wasn't even in a tailed state, he was merely using the kyuubi's chakra. How you could come to the conclusion that Kimimaro is strong enough to beat Pain single-handedly is beyond me. A 3 tailed Naruto would completely ruin Kimimaro, Pain fought a 6 tail Naruto. Orochimaru couldn't beat a 4 tailed Naruto, and he's obviously stronger than Kimimaro. Kimimaro would stand no chance in a fight with any Akatsuki member, let alone Pain. That like comparing Nappa to a super saiyan, they are on completely different levels in Part II than they were on Part I.

As far as Orochimaru and co vs Pain, Pain takes it (easily). Me personally, I'd take the 2nd Hokage over Kimimaro any day. Orochimaru had enough trouble wiith a Hokage that was past his prime, Pain would slaughter him and his team. If he barely beat the 3rd, with a much stronger team IMO, then I doubt that he would even be a challenge to Pain. Besides, Jariaya would probably beat Orochimaru and co. if he was using Ma and Pa. Even Naruto would be dead if Pain wanted to kill him.

[Kuranzyan]

It's true that a 3-tailed Naruto would pwn Kimimaro. Heck, he would even pwn Pain in that state. The reason is simply because he is still aware of what he is doing. From 4 tails and onwards, he becomes just a mindless, agressive and unstoppable force of destruction.

What I'm saying is that Pain's defenses can be penetrated / bypassed / overpowered, unlike Naruto's 4-tail Fox Shroud. Oro's Kusanagi sword couldn't even so much manage to do that. Kimimaro would be able to inflict some serious damage to Pain with his variety of techniques and his Cursed Seal.

BTW, I said Kyuubi Naruto, not Tailed. I view Kyubi Naruto as the regular Kyubi-chakra using Naruto. Tailed to me means he's in the Fox Shroud.

[killbill]

If orochimaru knows pain's abilities then oro will win...Orochimaru is a sanin just like jiraya and pain admitted that if jiraya knew his secret jiraya would have won...oro is almost par with jiraya...so he should win....

[Delbi]

By knowing Pain's abilities, people like Oro, Jiraiya, Itachi and Sarturobi, could certainly do this. Their skill sets and Jutsu make it a possibility.

Saying that, it would be very hard. Orochimaru has an advantage over everyone for the simple reason he is very hard to kill. His jutsu are also quite nasty.

The real secret to defeating Pain, is being able to take out Hell Realm first, and then go after Deva. The other 4 Pain's are nothing special, Hell Pain's revival jutsu, and Deva's all around shit kicking ability make them the most dangerous by far. Considering Orochimaru knows this, and is a geniius, he certainly could come up with a strategy to defeat him.

Also, for Deva to use his larger jutsu, he has to deactivate the other bodies, which put him at a very big disadvantage. If he wishes to use this massive jutsu's of his, he has to fight alone, which take away most of Pain's strengths, which are his superior numbers and shared sight.

[THM Nindo]

I don't see how Oro could win against Chibaku tensei.
This jutsu alone should be enough to win against him.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

It's true that a 3-tailed Naruto would pwn Kimimaro. Heck, he would even pwn Pain in that state. The reason is simply because he is still aware of what he is doing. From 4 tails and onwards, he becomes just a mindless, agressive and unstoppable force of destruction.

What I'm saying is that Pain's defenses can be penetrated / bypassed / overpowered, unlike Naruto's 4-tail Fox Shroud. Oro's Kusanagi sword couldn't even so much manage to do that. Kimimaro would be able to inflict some serious damage to Pain with his variety of techniques and his Cursed Seal.

BTW, I said Kyuubi Naruto, not Tailed. I view Kyubi Naruto as the regular Kyubi-chakra using Naruto. Tailed to me means he's in the Fox Shroud.
So you mean to tell me that a 3 tailed Naruto can beat someone that a 6 tailed Naruto couldn't? Where is the logic in that? Thay makes no sense at all. I understand what you're trying to say, but it still makes no sense. A 3 tailed Naruto can not beat Pain. A 3 tailed Naruto couldn't beat Orochimaru either.

And Pain's CT jutsu would handle a 3 tailed Naruto easily. That would be the end of the fight. And the same thing applies to anyone else you named. And let's not forget that Pain blew up an entire village in an instant. There's a reason why Pain has been through war and is the only person that hadn't been defeated prior to Naruto. Jariaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru we're defeated by Hanzo, the same Hanzo the Pain killed single-handedly. This isn't even an argument, Pain would utterly destroy Oro and co. And Pain didn't even use his most powerful techniques against Jariaya.

As far as the kyuubi Naruto thing, I'm not impressed. Kimimaro was considered strong by some 13 year old kids. Fast forward to part II, he would be considered average at best. Even Kabuto seemed strong in part I, but even he looks weak in part II.


I don't see how Oro could win against Chibaku tensei.
This jutsu alone should be enough to win against him.
Exactly.

[jdw]

Oro would die in a rather unspectacular fashion. I think he will simply have his life taken away by Nagato, the controller of life and death. One word ends it all: Gedo (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/449/03/).

It has already been shown that he can be beaten by something of this sort when he was sealed by the sword of Totsuka.

[M3J]

So you mean to tell me that a 3 tailed Naruto can beat someone that a 6 tailed Naruto couldn't? Where is the logic in that? Thay makes no sense at all. I understand what you're trying to say, but it still makes no sense. A 3 tailed Naruto can not beat Pain. A 3 tailed Naruto couldn't beat Orochimaru either.

And Pain's CT jutsu would handle a 3 tailed Naruto easily. That would be the end of the fight. And the same thing applies to anyone else you named. And let's not forget that Pain blew up an entire village in an instant. There's a reason why Pain has been through war and is the only person that hadn't been defeated prior to Naruto. Jariaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru we're defeated by Hanzo, the same Hanzo the Pain killed single-handedly. This isn't even an argument, Pain would utterly destroy Oro and co. And Pain didn't even use his most powerful techniques against Jariaya.

As far as the kyuubi Naruto thing, I'm not impressed. Kimimaro was considered strong by some 13 year old kids. Fast forward to part II, he would be considered average at best. Even Kabuto seemed strong in part I, but even he looks weak in part II.


Exactly.

Hope you're not implying Naruto has an undefeated streak or w/e. Remember Valley of the End?
Orochimaru could escape out of Chibaku Tensei though. He can extend his neck, and Sword of Kusanagi is stated to be unbreakable, one of the strongest sword. When Sasuke cut him, Oro's spores or w/e mixed with the air and froze Sasuke, paralyzed him. Maybe same might go for Pain.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

Hope you're not implying Naruto has an undefeated streak or w/e. Remember Valley of the End?
Orochimaru could escape out of Chibaku Tensei though. He can extend his neck, and Sword of Kusanagi is stated to be unbreakable, one of the strongest sword. When Sasuke cut him, Oro's spores or w/e mixed with the air and froze Sasuke, paralyzed him. Maybe same might go for Pain.

Of course I'm not implying that Naruto is undefeated, you misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that Pain/Nagato was undefeated until Naruto beat him, that's all.

As far as Orochimaru escaping Chibaku Tensei, you're crazy. A 6 tailed Naruto couldn't escape, Orochimaru wouldn't stand a chance. Having the Sword of Kusanagi is irrelevant because it couldn't even cut a 4 tailed Naruto. Just because the sword is unbreakable doesn't mean it can cut through anything. You can only cut what you're strong enough to cut, no matter what kind of sword you have.

Pain was the leader of Akatsuki for a reason. Madara is the only ones I've seen capable of beating Pain without knowing his secret. As good as Itachi is, even he would fall against Pain. Not even Susanoo could stop his Gedo jutsu.

[M3J]

Four tailed Naruto had dense chakra as shield. Chibaku Tensei looks to be made up of rocks and debris. Orochimaru could also use Triple Rashoman (he used the jutsu against 4-Tailed Naruto's chakra ball blast thingie) to protect himself somehow. But Orochimaru does know tons of jutsu, even forbidden ones. He could do something against chibaku tensei, avoid it if he doesn't get sucked in yet.

[Delbi]

Four tailed Naruto had dense chakra as shield. Chibaku Tensei looks to be made up of rocks and debris. Orochimaru could also use Triple Rashoman (he used the jutsu against 4-Tailed Naruto's chakra ball blast thingie) to protect himself somehow. But Orochimaru does know tons of jutsu, even forbidden ones. He could do something against chibaku tensei, avoid it if he doesn't get sucked in yet.

If Oro started summong a shit ton of snakes, thier mass alone would break apart the rocks. I think that was the big reason why Naruto was able to escape the technique, because of the sheer size of the Kyuubi in it's 8 tailed state, not because of it's strength. Because the 6 tailed Kyuubi shot a chakra blast powerful enough to level a village, I think it would have been strong enough to break out of a bunch of rocks.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

If Oro started summong a shit ton of snakes, thier mass alone would break apart the rocks. I think that was the big reason why Naruto was able to escape the technique, because of the sheer size of the Kyuubi in it's 8 tailed state, not because of it's strength. Because the 6 tailed Kyuubi shot a chakra blast powerful enough to level a village, I think it would have been strong enough to break out of a bunch of rocks.

That makes no sense. The difference is that Naruto and the kyuubi share a body. If Oro summoned enough snakes to break the CT, which I doubt he's capable of, they would crush him against a wall of rocks. Besides, CT is obviously not just rocks. It's more like concentrated gravity that pulls objects toward it. If it was just rocks then it wouldn't have maintained it's shaped, but it crumbled when Nagato lost his concentration.

[M3J]

Kyuubi didn't look to be big enough though, 8-Tailed Kyuubi.
If it could shoot a chakra blast.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

If Oro started summong a shit ton of snakes, thier mass alone would break apart the rocks. I think that was the big reason why Naruto was able to escape the technique, because of the sheer size of the Kyuubi in it's 8 tailed state, not because of it's strength. Because the 6 tailed Kyuubi shot a chakra blast powerful enough to level a village, I think it would have been strong enough to break out of a bunch of rocks.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-439/page005.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-439/page006.html

Apparently it's not strong enough.

[street_san]

1st...I don't really like the fact that Orochimaru know the ability of Pain. Pain's power comes from the fact that he is mysterious. One of the reason he is so strong is that you need a hell of a brain to understand the pattern of his power. How each of his bodies work and the way you can all defeat it. But knowing that while fighting him isn't something easy to do...so most of the people would've been defeated way before. Except people like Jiraiya or Kakashi or Itachi who had the gift of intelligence xD.

But anyway, if we stick with your conditions then:

I don't know. Orochimaru is a genius. If he knew how pain Jutsu work...he would've come prepare. Kimimaro CS2 could defeat a lot of pain bodies. If some rasengan did the job: His bones could also do the job xD. Plus the 1st hokage his a hell of a man. He could "hide" Oro's presence in order for him to kill most of Pain bodies without beeing notice. Great jutsu indeed.

And...I seriously doubt Pain would use CT. I mean, to use this extreme jutsu you need time in order to prepare it. If he was able to use it against 6-tail Kyuubi it is because the monster is stupid. Pain took advantage of him in order to use his technique. But against Oro...it wouldn't work. If the Snake-guy knew of his ability, well he would know that if he doesn't want to die, he'll have to keep attacking hoping that each attack his effective.

And plus, Oro is kind of quick, he wouldn't let Pain the time to perfom the CT jutsu. Soo...the probability of him using this extreme jutsu is quite low.

[kkck]

Maybe oro can break out of chibaku tensei by transforming into the hydra. That should be even bigger than kyubi IMHO.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

Maybe oro can break out of chibaku tensei by transforming into the hydra. That should be even bigger than kyubi IMHO.

So we're just gonna act like CT is just a sphere of earth, with no celestial force pulling the earth together? What difference would it make how bigger the hydra is? Unless it's strong than a 6 tailed Naruto, he wouldn't break through.

[wildG]

orochimaru has far more chances of beating pain than jiraya had... Oro is a monster of endurance it will take many hours for pain to find a way to kill him

[Shaunlim]

orochimaru has far more chances of beating pain than jiraya had... Oro is a monster of endurance it will take many hours for pain to find a way to kill him

No he doesn't. All Pain needs is Hungry Ghost to suck Oro dry or Human to take out his soul. Pain doesn't need to crack his head to find a way to kill Oro since he has more than one.

[wildG]

No he doesn't. All Pain needs is Hungry Ghost to suck Oro dry or Human to take out his soul. Pain doesn't need to crack his head to find a way to kill Oro since he has more than one.

you forget something, oro is un-killable, even if he got defeated none succeed killing him the only way to keep him out of sight was to put him into a super duper hax powerfull genjutsu casted by a rare item...

oro is just like a hydra regardless of how many times you cut his head he will keep coming with more heads

[M3J]

He was sealed. He can be killed, but it's a bitch to do so. But if the Sannins couldn't beat Hanzo, which Pain managed to do, Pain could probably take on Orochimaru.

[jodi]

Orochimaru all the way.

Why people keep creating topics about SomeGoodCharacter versus FillerCharacter ?

stop it. Let the filler be dead once and for all.

[Delbi]

CT is a rather useless jutsu unless you are trying to capture a Biju IMO.

First of all, Nagato needs to deactivate all of the Pain bodies except Deva, which means Deva is all alone.

Secondly, it takes time to build up. If Naruto had any control over his brain while transformed, he would have had ample time to form a counter attack against that jutsu.

And lastly, it takes up a lot of chakra. Orochimaru, as some have said, could use the Hydra jutsu, summons snakes, etc. to break out of this thing, and then Deva would be in for a world of hurt.
[hr]

He was sealed. He can be killed, but it's a bitch to do so. But if the Sannins couldn't beat Hanzo, which Pain managed to do, Pain could probably take on Orochimaru.

The Sannin were younger than Kakashi it would seem when the fought Hanzou. When Nagato killed him, Hanzou had aged considerably as well, had to be at the very least, 10 years later if you ask me.

Considering Nagato admitted he couldn't beat Jiraiya if Jiraiya knew his secret, and Orochimaru and Jiraiya are pretty eqaul in terms of battle prowess, it would seem Nagato isn't going to take this quite as easy as some think.

[Belisar]

So here is the battle. Pain VS Orochimaru

Conditions:

Orochimaru knows Pain's abilities beforehand.
Orochimaru is healthy.
Orochimaru can use ALL of his Jutsu's INCLUDING EDO TENSEI! He can only use it once to summon Kimimaro and 1st Hokage. :)
Orochimaru doesn't know Negato's location.

All six Pain bodies.
Pain is not trying to capture Oro but kill him.

The battle's location is Konoha crater. :amuse

An all out battle. Who ever dies, dies. Who would win?
*sigh* no one can defeat pain, even if the abilities are known. naruto surpassed jiraiya, who was stronger then orochimaru, and he lost even with the help of the frogs. if, then maybe prime sandaime "would" have a chance.
[hr]

If Kimmimaro was fully healthy, he and the 1st would probably take 3-4 peins out. the 1st is strong enough to counter chibaku tensei, not sure about kimmimaro though. oro would lose still.
lol? http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/SanativeStigma/huh.gif
i don't see mokuton having a chance against chibaku tensei. you need the power at least as strong a 8-tails kyuubi.
[hr]

He was sealed. He can be killed, but it's a bitch to do so. But if the Sannins couldn't beat Hanzo, which Pain managed to do, Pain could probably take on Orochimaru.
they were not in their prime. i doubt oro used hydra or jiraiya used sage mode. at least it didn't looked that way.

[Jamatis]

you forget something, oro is un-killable, even if he got defeated none succeed killing him the only way to keep him out of sight was to put him into a super duper hax powerfull genjutsu casted by a rare item...

oro is just like a hydra regardless of how many times you cut his head he will keep coming with more heads

How is oro un-killable? Even when he was fighting 4 tailed KB Naruto he admitted that even he would get killed from Naruto's chakra blast.

[Weapon_X]

*sigh* no one can defeat pain, even if the abilities are known. naruto surpassed jiraiya, who was stronger then orochimaru, and he lost even with the help of the frogs. if, then maybe prime sandaime "would" have a chance.


http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

This link doesn't agree with you. 4th Panel. :)

[Delbi]

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

This link doesn't agree with you. 4th Panel. :)

To add to that, Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya on in certain ways. Overall, people like Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Itachi would still be stronger than Naruto.

[Phoenix946]

I could see Pain not even letting Orochimaru perform Edo Tensei by using BT on him immediately. And if he does manage to pull off the couple of seconds he needs to perform the jutsu, I could see Nagato having some sort of technique to put them back to the grave lol. And if Oro doesn't get Edo Tensei in he's dead within seconds.

Anyway, assuming Edo Tensei comes off and then the battle starts, I'd still go for Pain but with a much more interesting battle. Especially Shodaime is hard to tell, I wonder if his wood could somehow be absorbed by hungry ghost? It's solid, but it IS ninjutsu.

And Pain shouldn't use CT or the nuke-level ST, they're not good jutsu for fighting anyway when a regular ST can already blow stuff away. Unless people can get crushed to death inside CT it isn't even lethal and just a giant chakra-wasting prison.

[Destined_One]

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

This link doesn't agree with you. 4th Panel. :)

Though is he talking about Pain? as in "we" pain would have been defeated or Nagato as well.. TBH Nagato's power over Life and Death seems to much even for those who knew his secret.. Even Konan when Naruto was inside the tree, kept telling Nagato to finish it and leave.. if he summons whatever it was, it would takes the lives of all 3, Oro, Hasirama & Kimimaro..

Pain is still the strongest Ninja in the manga so far, Madara has shown superior escape/evasion abilities but nowhere near the lvl of power Nagato has.. though obviously he hasn't engaged in a full battle yet (On screen).. This thread is proof of that, things like Edo Tensei and handicapping are the only way around the obvious outcome.. Not bad for a filler character though :p..

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

CT is a rather useless jutsu unless you are trying to capture a Biju IMO.

First of all, Nagato needs to deactivate all of the Pain bodies except Deva, which means Deva is all alone.
Secondly, it takes time to build up. If Naruto had any control over his brain while transformed, he would have had ample time to form a counter attack against that jutsu.

And lastly, it takes up a lot of chakra. Orochimaru, as some have said, could use the Hydra jutsu, summons snakes, etc. to break out of this thing, and then Deva would be in for a world of hurt.
<hr noshade size="1">


The Sannin were younger than Kakashi it would seem when the fought Hanzou. When Nagato killed him, Hanzou had aged considerably as well, had to be at the very least, 10 years later if you ask me.

Considering Nagato admitted he couldn't beat Jiraiya if Jiraiya knew his secret, and Orochimaru and Jiraiya are pretty eqaul in terms of battle prowess, it would seem Nagato isn't going to take this quite as easy as some think.

No. You're thinking about Shinra Tensei, not Chibaku Tensei. The only thing that was implied about CT is that Deva needed to be closer to Nagato to do it.

[Delbi]

No. You're thinking about Shinra Tensei, not Chibaku Tensei. The only thing that was implied about CT is that Deva needed to be closer to Nagato to do it.

Well considering it's scale was similar to the large ST, I'm one to think he has to deactivate the other bodies.

The reason he had to deactivate the bodies was because he needed more chakra to do the technique.

[Enma Ai]

Unfortunately, Pain will win. I like Orochimaru's character more.

[Delbi]

Unfortunately, Pain will win. I like Orochimaru's character more.

If you know Pain's abilities, and you yourself are very powerful like Orochimaru, you have a very good chance of beating him.

Deva is the big problem here. The rest of the bodies just have a bunch of gimmicks that can be worked around.

In my mind, you first take out Hell Realm then go all out on Deva. Once those two are out of the way, just grab a kunai and go to work and your fine.

[wildG]

If you know Pain's abilities, and you yourself are very powerful like Orochimaru, you have a very good chance of beating him.

Deva is the big problem here. The rest of the bodies just have a bunch of gimmicks that can be worked around.

In my mind, you first take out Hell Realm then go all out on Deva. Once those two are out of the way, just grab a kunai and go to work and your fine.

i think the same with you delbi, unlike anyone else orochimaru actually have more chances in staying alive against any opponent even if madara were to use his speed to cut all his bodies.. oro would still be alive due to his numerous replacements and tricks,,, imo like it or not oro is an immortal.... Only way to beat him was by capturing him in a blissfull genjutsu with the most rare item ever...

[jdw]

i think the same with you delbi, unlike anyone else orochimaru actually have more chances in staying alive against any opponent even if madara were to use his speed to cut all his bodies.. oro would still be alive due to his numerous replacements and tricks,,, imo like it or not oro is an immortal.... Only way to beat him was by capturing him in a blissfull genjutsu with the most rare item ever...

Oro could be killed by hell or human Pain, no rare items needed. They are two of the weaker Pains, but if Oro gets hit with a single ST, he could find himself without a soul. Also, If Pain uses Gedo, Oro dies.

[jodi]

Oro could be killed by hell or human Pain, no rare items needed. They are two of the weaker Pains, but if Oro gets hit with a single ST, he could find himself without a soul. Also, If Pain uses Gedo, Oro dies.


one shinra tensei killing Oro?
thats very very not likely.
Gedo? the last Gedo that ressurected people? O_o
or are you talking about Hell Pain's Gedo-like?

the only way Pain can kill Orochimaru is removing out his souls and his minions souls.
I only saw Human and Hell realm being able to do that.

frankly speaking, Pain is all about his secret, if you discover that, then you can go with a spoon to kill Nagato.
Not underrating Jiraiya, but I think that Orochimaru would be able to find out about Pain's secret faster.
Orochimaru is a beast who defeated Kages and was feared among most of Shinobis.

[jdw]

one shinra tensei killing Oro?
thats very very not likely.
Gedo? the last Gedo that ressurected people? O_o
or are you talking about Hell Pain's Gedo-like?

the only way Pain can kill Orochimaru is removing out his souls and his minions souls.
I only saw Human and Hell realm being able to do that.

frankly speaking, Pain is all about his secret, if you discover that, then you can go with a spoon to kill Nagato.
Not underrating Jiraiya, but I think that Orochimaru would be able to find out about Pain's secret faster.
Orochimaru is a beast who defeated Kages and was feared among most of Shinobis.

I think Hell Pain was using the same entity that Nagato used, only that Nagato used the full body and not just the head. Considering that Nagato controls life and death, I though it was likely. If I am wrong, and that is not the same entity, then screw it and he can summon Gedo Mazo (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/08/) from here and rape Oro. Oro isn't above getting a quick one hit kill, is he?

[Weapon_X]

I don't think ST would handle Oro. If Oro just toyed around with the 4 tailed Naruto with his bare hands, ST would do jack shit to him. This guy is literally immortal. Physical attacks hardly ever hurt him. Besides, he'll just keep sprouting from bodies to bodies. Only way to defeat Oro is to suck out his soul, hence why this match I created is a matched fight.

[Belisar]

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page013.html

This link doesn't agree with you. 4th Panel. :)
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/437/06/

this link doesn't agree with you. 4th panel.

[jdw]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/437/06/

this link doesn't agree with you. 4th panel.

Pain himself said Jiraiya would have won if he knew Pain's secret. That is straight from the source. So, it looks like this:

Pain thinks that these people could beat him if they know his secret:

Jiraiya

[Weapon_X]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/437/06/

this link doesn't agree with you. 4th panel.

That's Naruto. This is Jiraiya we are talking about. Pain clearly has said Jiraiya would have won if Jiraiya knew his secrets. It came straight from his mouth.

Pain didn't mean anyone else, only Jiraiya. If you don't believe his own wording coming out of his own mouth but believe Naruto's panel where he is lying on the floor and has nothing to do with Pain's comment about Jiraiya, then fine.

[M3J]

Anyway, assuming Edo Tensei comes off and then the battle starts, I'd still go for Pain but with a much more interesting battle. Especially Shodaime is hard to tell, I wonder if his wood could somehow be absorbed by hungry ghost? It's solid, but it IS ninjutsu.

And Pain shouldn't use CT or the nuke-level ST, they're not good jutsu for fighting anyway when a regular ST can already blow stuff away. Unless people can get crushed to death inside CT it isn't even lethal and just a giant chakra-wasting prison.
I've read that Shodaime used his chakra to bring the wood to life or something, so if the chakra does reside in the wood, it can be absorbed and the wood might die.
nuke-level shinra tensei is to decimate a whole village. I doubt Deva Pain would use that when he can use a stronger version of normal shinra tensei. Chibaku tensei can keep Orochimaru prisoned up though, or make him waste extra energy and chakra trying to get out.


No. You're thinking about Shinra Tensei, not Chibaku Tensei. The only thing that was implied about CT is that Deva needed to be closer to Nagato to do it.
I think it could be because Nagato didn't have enough chakra so Deva needed to get closer to Pain. Just guessing.


i think the same with you delbi, unlike anyone else orochimaru actually have more chances in staying alive against any opponent even if madara were to use his speed to cut all his bodies.. oro would still be alive due to his numerous replacements and tricks,,, imo like it or not oro is an immortal.... Only way to beat him was by capturing him in a blissfull genjutsu with the most rare item ever...
HE WAS SEALED, THAT'S WHAT BEAT HIM. I think he was in genjutsu after being sealed.


one shinra tensei killing Oro?
thats very very not likely.
Gedo? the last Gedo that ressurected people? O_o
or are you talking about Hell Pain's Gedo-like?

the only way Pain can kill Orochimaru is removing out his souls and his minions souls.
I only saw Human and Hell realm being able to do that.

frankly speaking, Pain is all about his secret, if you discover that, then you can go with a spoon to kill Nagato.
Not underrating Jiraiya, but I think that Orochimaru would be able to find out about Pain's secret faster.
Orochimaru is a beast who defeated Kages and was feared among most of Shinobis.

No, even finding out about Pain's secret, it's not as easy to beat him, his six bodies can protect him. And Nagato himself could fight too, probably. We just didn't see him fight because he wanted to hear Naruto's answer.
Orochimaru didn't kill Sandaime, Sandaime sacrificed his life to try and seal Orochimaru, and he was very old. Defeated Sandaime at least because Sandaime was planning to die. He probably backstabbed Kazekage or had Kimimaro kill the kazekage.

[Destined_One]

one shinra tensei killing Oro?
thats very very not likely.
Gedo? the last Gedo that ressurected people? O_o
or are you talking about Hell Pain's Gedo-like?

the only way Pain can kill Orochimaru is removing out his souls and his minions souls.
I only saw Human and Hell realm being able to do that.

frankly speaking, Pain is all about his secret, if you discover that, then you can go with a spoon to kill Nagato.
Not underrating Jiraiya, but I think that Orochimaru would be able to find out about Pain's secret faster.
Orochimaru is a beast who defeated Kages and was feared among most of Shinobis.

There is no one in the manga beside J_Man who would have come to the conclusion that Nagato was controlling the bodies (Apart from konan/madara for obvious reasons).. Firstly who else knew that Nagato had the rinnegan and lived to talk about it? who else encountered all the bodies on there travels? and btw trained the very person who controls pain?.. so no Orochimaru would not even come close to divulging anything.. how exactly is he going to know they are dead bodies being controlled by the true rinnegan user Nagato? ..

What attack does Orochimaru have that would even bother the combined efforts of the 6 paths of pain.. Edo Tensei? I admit Hashirama is a beast, but people overestimate Kimimaro.. he was powerful against a weakened Lee, and young Gaara, and he would have been great if he was still alive, but the lvl of ninja he was when he died is a mere ant to the colossus that is pain..

Im just saying that things would have to go Oro's way for him to have a chance, just like they did for Naruto..

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

If you know Pain's abilities, and you yourself are very powerful like Orochimaru, you have a very good chance of beating him.

Deva is the big problem here. The rest of the bodies just have a bunch of gimmicks that can be worked around.

In my mind, you first take out Hell Realm then go all out on Deva. Once those two are out of the way, just grab a kunai and go to work and your fine.

knowing his abilities and knowing his secret are two completely different things. As long as you don't know that Nagato controls them all and where Nagato is, you're still as good as dead.

[Franckie]

Pain himself said Jiraiya would have won if he knew Pain's secret. That is straight from the source. So, it looks like this:

It depends on the translation you read. Several of the translations I've seen have Pein stating that Jiraiya might have won if he knew the "secret" in advance. But he didn't, and Pein's real body wasn't even there.

[M3J]

knowing his abilities and knowing his secret are two completely different things. As long as you don't know that Nagato controls them all and where Nagato is, you're still as good as dead.

No. Naruto didn't die. Kakashi died because he used up his Mangekyou. As long as you know what enables Nagato to control them and how to take away Nagato's ability to control, you have a chance. Nagato uses chakra rod to control them by sending chakra. Take out those rod and soon the bodies will be useless. You don't need to know where he is, just that he or someone controls them and how it's done.

[jdw]

It depends on the translation you read. Several of the translations I've seen have Pein stating that Jiraiya might have won if he knew the "secret" in advance. But he didn't, and Pein's real body wasn't even there.

I have seen a few that were less than certain of jiraiya's victory, like Cnet128's, but even then Pain made it seem like the it was more likely that Jiraiya would win.

Pain: The Legendary Sannin... Jiraiya, too, goes to his death... // Most likely, we could never have defeated him if not for our secret... // I will say that much for you, old master. //

I am sure there are some that make it seem more even, and others that make it seem unlikely, but they seem to be in the distinct minority.
[hr]

No. Naruto didn't die. Kakashi died because he used up his Mangekyou. As long as you know what enables Nagato to control them and how to take away Nagato's ability to control, you have a chance. Nagato uses chakra rod to control them by sending chakra. Take out those rod and soon the bodies will be useless. You don't need to know where he is, just that he or someone controls them and how it's done.

Getting near many of those bodies is asking to die. Get too close to human realm, you die. Get to close to hungry, you die. Get to close to hell, you die. Try getting close to Deva. All that leaves is animal and asura. Asura has a wicked arsenal, so it might be tough. animal should be easy.

[Delbi]

I think Hell Pain was using the same entity that Nagato used, only that Nagato used the full body and not just the head. Considering that Nagato controls life and death, I though it was likely. If I am wrong, and that is not the same entity, then screw it and he can summon Gedo Mazo (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/08/) from here and rape Oro. Oro isn't above getting a quick one hit kill, is he?

He did, but if you remeber he had to grab those people to kill them, did he not? And it only seemed to kill you if you lied.

Oro isn't above getting a one hit kill, but is Oro not as skilled as some like Naruto and Kakashi in terms of not getting killed easily? Same goes for Jiraiya who is really someone of Oro's strength, and Jiraiya nearly succeeded. Oro actually knows what's coming, that makes a huge differente.

Almost any attack is a one hit kill in one way or another. It's all a matter of evading and blocking, and if you can counter it, counter it.

And remeber something, Oro is the King of forbiden techniques, anything is possible with his freaky Michael Jackson ass.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

No. Naruto didn't die. Kakashi died because he used up his Mangekyou. As long as you know what enables Nagato to control them and how to take away Nagato's ability to control, you have a chance. Nagato uses chakra rod to control them by sending chakra. Take out those rod and soon the bodies will be useless. You don't need to know where he is, just that he or someone controls them and how it's done.

Huh? The only reason Naruto didn't die was because Pain wasn't trying to kill him. Naruto would've died when he was pinned to the ground, if Nagato was trying to kill him. And Kakashi just played possom until Pain left, he would've die whether he used his MS or not if he continued to fight. Your comment isn't even logical. Trying to take chakra rods out of a battle ready Pain would result in certain death from whoever tries. Pain is a shinobi, one of the best in the manga. If you really think that he would allow that, you're crazy. No strong shinobi would allow something like that. Besides, ST will make that impossible. There is no realistic scenario that you could think of that will result in the death of Nagato/Pain at the hand of Orochimaru.

[Shaunlim]

you forget something, oro is un-killable, even if he got defeated none succeed killing him the only way to keep him out of sight was to put him into a super duper hax powerfull genjutsu casted by a rare item...

oro is just like a hydra regardless of how many times you cut his head he will keep coming with more heads

Uh...unless you want to explain to me how Oro is going to continue living on after his soul is ripped out or his chakra sucked out dry, Oro is very much killable.

[M3J]

Getting near many of those bodies is asking to die. Get too close to human realm, you die. Get to close to hungry, you die. Get to close to hell, you die. Try getting close to Deva. All that leaves is animal and asura. Asura has a wicked arsenal, so it might be tough. animal should be easy.
No, giving them a chance to do something when near them is asking to die. Beating them up while near them isn't. Hungry Realm doesn't kill anyone though, otherwise Jiraiya and Naruto would've been dead. Give 'em a chance to do something and you die. And as long as Animal can summon, he/she isn't easy. Even Jiraiya had problems beating him and Naruto had to confuse her for while.


Huh? The only reason Naruto didn't die was because Pain wasn't trying to kill him. Naruto would've died when he was pinned to the ground, if Nagato was trying to kill him. And Kakashi just played possom until Pain left, he would've die whether he used his MS or not if he continued to fight. Your comment isn't even logical. Trying to take chakra rods out of a battle ready Pain would result in certain death from whoever tries. Pain is a shinobi, one of the best in the manga. If you really think that he would allow that, you're crazy. No strong shinobi would allow something like that. Besides, ST will make that impossible. There is no realistic scenario that you could think of that will result in the death of Nagato/Pain at the hand of Orochimaru.

Probably not, not yet anyway as Nagato has a tendency to talk. And Hinata could have jumped in. Kakashi wasn't dead though, when he got shinra tensei'd by Pain.
When did I say to take out chakra rod from Pain when he's still fighting? Take it out when he's down, like Naruto did to Deva after the last rasengan. Orochimaru could find out a way to do that while fighting against the remaining Pains.

[Raizen]

Pein would own oro. He would bitch slap oro's perverted face then send a ST right down his throat.

Oro has nothing in his arsenal that can even harm pein.

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

When did I say to take out chakra rod from Pain when he's still fighting? Take it out when he's down, like Naruto did to Deva after the last rasengan. Orochimaru could find out a way to do that while fighting against the remaining Pains.

Take the rods out when he's down? You have to get him down first. Let's not forget that no one in Konoha faced Pain at full power. Even Naruto came in when Deva wasn't back at full power. If Oro and co are facing 6 full powered Pains, it would be over fairly quickly. ST coupled with a Pain that can summon animals that share the Rinnegan, a Pain capable of absorbing ninjutsu, and everyone sharing each others vision is the 2nd best offense/defense combination in the entire manga so far. If Naruto would've face Pain at full strength, it would've been a completely different fight. Oro and co would stand no chance against Pain.

[M3J]

Orochimaru stood a chance against 4-Tailed Kyuubi, he has some chance against Pain. With Mokuton and hard bone, Orochimaru can create chance. Not to mention he can distract Pain enough to slowly remove chakra (though that would be difficult).

[HakuGaara]

Can Orochimaru die? O_o

[Lord_Orochimaru]

He was sealed. He can be killed, but it's a bitch to do so. But if the Sannins couldn't beat Hanzo, which Pain managed to do, Pain could probably take on Orochimaru.

the sannin were not as powerfull back than as the are now. Jaraiya didnt even had sage mode. Orochimaru was still good so all of the forbidden jutsus werent use neither. Hanzo is definitely of kage class but he isnt as strong as u think he is :facepalm
[hr]

Pain himself said Jiraiya would have won if he knew Pain's secret. That is straight from the source. So, it looks like this:

Pain thinks that these people could beat him if they know his secret:

Jiraiya


there wasnt any reasons for him to go listing other names there, it would be quite irrelevant

[Yondaime Uzumaki]

Orochimaru stood a chance against 4-Tailed Kyuubi, he has some chance against Pain. With Mokuton and hard bone, Orochimaru can create chance. Not to mention he can distract Pain enough to slowly remove chakra (though that would be difficult).

What chance did he stand? Not only did he not have the physical strength but he did not have the chakra to continue to fight on that level. He would've died in an all out war with 4 tailed Naruto, imagine what Pain would do.

[LALAPUI]

Kimimaro was powerful enough to overpower a Jinchuuriki. He fought a Kyuubi Naruto, a drunk Lee (however funny, he is practically unstoppable.) and Gaara in quick succession. He almost killed Gaara, at the very end of their battle.
Something tells me a CS2 Kimimaro would even be able to take out all six pains solo.

Oro would win from the 6 Pains, but fail to locate Nagato, and give up, simply because he isn't interested in the fight any more... His major flaw is that he loses interest in all kinds of stuff way too soon.

Also Kimimaro was Sick at the time.
[hr]

So you mean to tell me that a 3 tailed Naruto can beat someone that a 6 tailed Naruto couldn't? Where is the logic in that? Thay makes no sense at all. I understand what you're trying to say, but it still makes no sense. A 3 tailed Naruto can not beat Pain. A 3 tailed Naruto couldn't beat Orochimaru either.

And Pain's CT jutsu would handle a 3 tailed Naruto easily. That would be the end of the fight. And the same thing applies to anyone else you named. And let's not forget that Pain blew up an entire village in an instant. There's a reason why Pain has been through war and is the only person that hadn't been defeated prior to Naruto. Jariaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru we're defeated by Hanzo, the same Hanzo the Pain killed single-handedly. This isn't even an argument, Pain would utterly destroy Oro and co. And Pain didn't even use his most powerful techniques against Jariaya.

As far as the kyuubi Naruto thing, I'm not impressed. Kimimaro was considered strong by some 13 year old kids. Fast forward to part II, he would be considered average at best. Even Kabuto seemed strong in part I, but even he looks weak in part II.


Exactly.

Well ororchimaru's most powerfull teqniques were created after he left Akatsuki and all the power he has was after he left akatsuki and all of his powerfull teqniques that makes him powerfull like his immortality thing in battle and that he can't be killed from psyshical attacks was after he left akatsuki the orochimaru when he was fighting hanzo was million times weaker from the orochimaru that we see now he wasn't even bad at that time he was with konoha when fighting hanzo he was weak.On the contrary pain's powers when he was fighting hanzou looked to me pretty the same with the things that he does now.I am not saying that orochimaru is more powerfull but he has a chance for sure he is pretty powerfull.
[hr]

What chance did he stand? Not only did he not have the physical strength but he did not have the chakra to continue to fight on that level. He would've died in an all out war with 4 tailed Naruto, imagine what Pain would do.

Orochimaru when he was fighing with the four tails was almost 3 years after he has got the body he is now when he was fighting with 4 tails his body started to reject him if you don't remember and i don't remember having a problem when fighting 4 tails he was happy all the time until his body started to reject him.

[M3J]

the sannin were not as powerfull back than as the are now. Jaraiya didnt even had sage mode. Orochimaru was still good so all of the forbidden jutsus werent use neither. Hanzo is definitely of kage class but he isnt as strong as u think he is :facepalm
It's been said Orochimaru started doing forbidden jutsu after his parents died, or at least started acting different. He was a kid then. As an adult, he could have a lot of knowledge about forbidden jutsu, not as much as current, but enough. And hw do you know Jiraiya didn't have Sage Mode back then?
But he's strong enough.


What chance did he stand? Not only did he not have the physical strength but he did not have the chakra to continue to fight on that level. He would've died in an all out war with 4 tailed Naruto, imagine what Pain would do.

Sorry, lemme rephrase. He didn't die from the battle with Kyuubi. He could last long enough to do some damage to Pain.

[HakuGaara]

Hmmm, Pein has the raw power typical of a bloodline inheritor whereas Orochimaru has the brilliant genius that only people like him and Minato have and also... quite a bit of power himself.

So the question is, will Orochimaru's vast intellect be enough to make up for any difference in power between the two? Or conversely, will his overconfidence bring him an unnecessary defeat that usually is the case with him?

Either way, if Pein can't produce something of the raw power that KN4 can produce (ex: black chakra ball) or doesn't have a means of sealing powerful opponents, then he technically can't really ever 'defeat' Orochimaru as nothing would stop him from just coming back again and again and again....(but this time having more knowledge of Pein's nature and experience fighting him) eventually figuring out a way to beat him.

[Weapon_X]

The question is, can Orochimaru even die? :blink Or can he even get hurt and feel pain?Even if he can, he still comes back to fight more. His stamina is preety good. He also is a swift fighter, he may not have the typical "appear behind someone" ninja type speed but he goes for his enemies head on and is fast.
Also as a thread starter for this fight, I also mentioned that Orochimaru isn't sick. And he can use Edo Tensei also. I see Orochimaru winning this if he plays his cards right.

[jodi]

Orochimaru couldn't be killed by Pain because Pain only existed to show Naruto with a coat.
Oro would rape Pain.

[BBB Banana]

I tink pain would win because we haven't seen he figth at full power and by full power I mean all six bodies at sinc.

Naruto never fougth six bodies at once and deva and fat pain alone showed to work quiet well together, so all six bodies would be unstopable. Remenber in jyraya vs pain figth it seems like after all the bodies show up jiraya lost quiet "easily".

[lomami]

Pein won easily with the six body against Jiraya but he stated himself that he would have lost if Jiraya had been aware of the real body trick. So the real question is Oro aware of that, would he have stood a chance against Pein (otherwise he like all other Akatsuki except Sharingan users would have lost)? And I think yes, he can, with a good combination of snake summons and genjutsu (how Jiraya almost won)

[Weapon_X]

I tink pain would win because we haven't seen he figth at full power and by full power I mean all six bodies at sinc.

Naruto never fougth six bodies at once and deva and fat pain alone showed to work quiet well together, so all six bodies would be unstopable. Remenber in jyraya vs pain figth it seems like after all the bodies show up jiraya lost quiet "easily".

That's because Jiraiya never knew Pain's abilities, Pain himself said that if Jiraiya knew his abilities then Jiraiya would have won. As I wrote in this thread, Orochimaru knows all of Pain's abilities beforehand. :)

[ophidial]

The question is, can Orochimaru even die? :blink Or can he even get hurt and feel pain?Even if he can, he still comes back to fight more. His stamina is preety good. He also is a swift fighter, he may not have the typical "appear behind someone" ninja type speed but he goes for his enemies head on and is fast.
Also as a thread starter for this fight, I also mentioned that Orochimaru isn't sick. And he can use Edo Tensei also. I see Orochimaru winning this if he plays his cards right.

Dont forget that pain is quite capable of ripping souls out of people. All he would need to do is pepper oro until he is drained and the then remove oro's through any of the 3 methods he has already shown.

[Ryoku]

That's because Jiraiya never knew Pain's abilities, Pain himself said that if Jiraiya knew his abilities then Jiraiya would have won. As I wrote in this thread, Orochimaru knows all of Pain's abilities beforehand. :)

Naruto knew Pain's secret beforehand, yet he would have still been defeated by Pain had Pain's intent was to kill rather than capture.
If Orochimaru can measure up to Naruto's level of sage mode, he would still lose because Pain's intent would obviously be to kill. The only way Oro has a chance is to "out-measure" sage mode. Even then, I still don't see Oro winning.

Pain was just way too powerful - which is why, IMO, Kishi decided to kill him off fast.

[juUnior]

Pain.

I just think that Orochimaru would do the same as Ji-man did; I mean, they seem to be equal in some terms <even if we consider the stats from db3, they are equal>, so it would probably looked like the fight with Jiraiya: Oro would put a hella of a fight, but in the end he would be doomed <probably not killed <because it's Oro we're talking about>, but defeated for sure>. Besides, Orochimaru could relate young Yahiko to one of Pain's bodies, but I wouldn't say he would be able to find out Pain's secret on time - if Jiraiya wasn't, he for sure wouldn't be either. Pain just has everything which is needed to defeat someone as Oro: summons and superb jutsus to counter Oro's. Orochimaru doesn't have a chance against 6 Paths of Pain in a long run.


Pain was just way too powerful - which is why, IMO, Kishi decided to kill him off fast.
true xd

[SuperSaiyaMan]

Orochimaru couldn't be killed by Pain because Pain only existed to show Naruto with a coat.
Oro would rape Pain.
This is, by far, the worst argument I've ever heard in a debate. Orochimaru doesn't have any chance in beating Pain, its like claiming that Thing could beat Superman or Azula could beat Full Powered Avatar State Aang. It isn't even a contest.

Orochimaru is powerful, without a doubt, but Pain has too many abilities that are just a perfect counter to him. Human realm can suck the souls out of his Edo Tensai bodies. Demon Realm could destroy Kimimaro long range. Animal Realm could counter all of Orochimaru's summons, including Manda and the Hydra. Hell Realm is physically powerful and can revive any of Pain's fallen bodies. And God Realm is just a powerhouse that Orochimaru doesn't stand a chance against.

[Lord_Orochimaru]

This is, by far, the worst argument I've ever heard in a debate. Orochimaru doesn't have any chance in beating Pain, its like claiming that Thing could beat Superman or Azula could beat Full Powered Avatar State Aang. It isn't even a contest.

Orochimaru is powerful, without a doubt, but Pain has too many abilities that are just a perfect counter to him. Human realm can suck the souls out of his Edo Tensai bodies. Demon Realm could destroy Kimimaro long range. Animal Realm could counter all of Orochimaru's summons, including Manda and the Hydra. Hell Realm is physically powerful and can revive any of Pain's fallen bodies. And God Realm is just a powerhouse that Orochimaru doesn't stand a chance against.

actually what he said was true, pain is the strongest ninja thus far and naruto was defeated when he was pin on the ground. so he saying that pain only existed to show naruto sage mode and sage cape and whats not is logical. Orochimaru stands a chance at beating pain if jiraiya could why not orochimaru ? It is not a no contest as most people say it is. If it was than that means no other akatsuki memeber stood a chance and even rivaling pain other than itachi because Itachi and Orochimaru were the highest rated akatsuki members in the databook

[SuperSaiyaMan]

actually what he said was true, pain is the strongest ninja thus far and naruto was defeated when he was pin on the ground. so he saying that pain only existed to show naruto sage mode and sage cape and whats not is logical. Orochimaru stands a chance at beating pain if jiraiya could why not orochimaru ? It is not a no contest as most people say it is. If it was than that means no other akatsuki memeber stood a chance and even rivaling pain other than itachi because Itachi and Orochimaru were the highest rated akatsuki members in the databook
No, he doesn't. Orochimaru does not have a single chance. Know what Jiraiya did? His foreknowledge of the Rinnengan, training Nagato, etc. If he had known the secret, he would have won. However, Orochimaru won't get even that far. All of Pain's bodies are nearly custom made to kill him.

And Orochimaru is weaker than Itachi, why would he have a chance at all against Pain?

[Lord_Orochimaru]

No, he doesn't. Orochimaru does not have a single chance. Know what Jiraiya did? His foreknowledge of the Rinnengan, training Nagato, etc. If he had known the secret, he would have won. However, Orochimaru won't get even that far. All of Pain's bodies are nearly custom made to kill him.

And Orochimaru is weaker than Itachi, why would he have a chance at all against Pain?

Itachi use a S rank secret weapon to get rid of Orochimaru, he has the greatest 'immortality jutsu' also a vast knowledge of jutsu and he also has a 5 in intelligence he stands a chance it is not a no contest. I voted for Pain to win but i was just stated my reason and to assure you it wouldn't be a landslide or a no contest match

[mattiaildivino]

Pain wins. his six bodies are too much for him,Kimimaro is very strong,but he's nothing in front of pain.hashirama is strong but I don't think he can defeat pain,his powers are useless against him.with the Naraka reign or with the gedo mazo he can take their souls,then Pain wins.

[Veloratrix]

This is definitely a good thread....Lets break this down.

Shodai in his own right was likely the strongest of his time. He could deal with 2 Pains by himself, and we aren't just basing Shodai off of the Orochimaru vs Hiruzen fight, either. Shodaime has been stated to be exceedingly strong more times than you can count in the Naruto series.

Kimimaro gets wrecked by Human Path/Animal Path.

That leaves Orochimaru dealing with the 2 remaining Pains, which would be good enough to stall for time while Tendo deals with Shodaime.

One thing we cannot forget, is that in the event that the Pains DO get beat, Nagato is far from defenseless. Nagato can summon the Gedo Mazo, which is as strong or STRONGER than Susano'o, and he has all the Path's abilities.

Hard to call, but I believe Pain would win, hands down. If Kimimaro was replaced by Nidaime, Pain loses in all likelyhood....but this is not the case. Kimimaro just cannot measure up to ninja on Orochimaru, Nidaime, Shodaime, or Pain's level.

[shuha27]

Pain would win against Orochimaru, IMO. Even if Oro knew all Pain's abilites I still give this to Pain. Oro might be a monster in all but can he deal with all those abilites. His Edo Tensei won't work because there souls can easily be sucked out.