This Week (Road 137-138-139-140-141-142-143) Discussions and Predictions [Archive]

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chaos_master

July 20, 2009, 07:45 AM

Discuss :)

To me, this is the chapter that seals it - Barca are going to win 6-5. I can't be sure if Rivaul is going to score here or if he'll pass to Tsubasa having distracted Naturezza, but I'm thinking it's likely the second option. The reason being I expect Tsubasa to seal Barca's win, not Rivaul. Moreover, Tsubasa has yet to win a confrontation with Naturezza and my years of CT experience are making me believe that has to happen as well.

majed2000

July 20, 2009, 08:32 AM

Pavitre

July 20, 2009, 09:00 AM

agree ,but i have a feeling ,this isn't the last goal 4 barca ,and the score will b 7-6 for barca

no 6-5 for Barca, 3 goals & 3 assists from tsubasa, check the wiki.
EDIT by Shinji: DON'T GIVE AWAY THE STORY IF YOU KNOW IT ALREADY.
Many people don't WANT to be spoiled, thanks.

majed2000

July 20, 2009, 09:57 AM

put it n a spoiler tag ,or SHINJI will kill u ,but thanx anyway

chaos_master

July 20, 2009, 10:00 AM

no 6-5 for Barca, 3 goals & 3 assists from tsubasa, check the wiki.The idea of these threads is that we don't know what's gonna happen and thus we discuss the current situation and predict on what we think will happen.

I've known the final score since I first started posting in mangahelpers, but not the details of the game. ;)

Hikaru Matsuyama

July 20, 2009, 04:20 PM

7-6? I don't think so, since we're on 137...

I guess Tsubasa will score the victorious goal, but I wish Rivaul scores.

we'll wait and see.

...

Road to 2002 is about to finish, I'd like to see more of Serie-A and J Leauge.
well, maybe in Golden 23.

buddahmaster

July 20, 2009, 05:32 PM

I see one last pass to Tsubasa and his win in a 1v1 against Natureza finally with a FDS making it a win for Barcelona

bax

July 20, 2009, 09:42 PM

Is it just me or did I spot some drawing errors? >.>

Like page 1-2 for example, it seems Rivaul is wearing the wrong side of spike on his right leg >.>;; Same case with spread 17-18 too. Maybe Rivaul ran out of spikes :oh

Shinji

July 21, 2009, 12:01 AM

Nope, Takahashi always draws them like that.
It's because he's considering the angle. With this angle, the foot should look like that. Although Takahashi exagerates it a bit just like every body part.
Look at THIS PICTURE (http://www.sport24.com/var/plain_site/storage/images/football/diaporamas/barcelone-manchester/barcelone-manchester-ronaldo-tir/2611642-1-fre-FR/barcelone-manchester-ronaldo-tir_diaporama.jpg), and you should get it.

wavepulsar

July 21, 2009, 01:12 AM

Sorry for barging in but as I and my cousin was going through the Japan versus German finals in Europe Chapters, we saw Genzo using his cap for stopping the goal

But we could n't find its explanation here, so please help

chaos_master

July 21, 2009, 01:52 AM

There's not much to explain really. It's not against the rules, so he can do it :)

bax

July 21, 2009, 02:14 AM

Shinji

July 21, 2009, 02:33 AM

bax: Uh, yeah, I saw the picture, I told you, he's always drawing right feet from this angle like a left foot. You'll see another example sooner or later.
Just like Ronaldo's outside right foot look like an inside left foot. Did you look at the picture (http://www.sport24.com/var/plain_site/storage/images/football/diaporamas/barcelone-manchester/barcelone-manchester-ronaldo-tir/2611642-1-fre-FR/barcelone-manchester-ronaldo-tir_diaporama.jpg)?

wavepulsar: To be more precise, this manga is old (you can tell: West Germany, not Germany).
At this time the rules didn't cover this specific case. It was only precised at first that players couldn't throw objects to stop the ball (dunno if it was written before or after this specific chapter though)
We also had referees saying they would let it go, some not...

Over time though, there were FAQs established by the FIFA and it was precised at first that field players couldn't use their shin pad hold in their hands to stop the ball.
Then, that the goal keeper couldn't it either. Though only the shin pad was covered, not the cap.

Blabble

July 21, 2009, 02:38 AM

I predict Tsubasa will stay in mid-air for a few seconds and do an overhead haha.

"~Mail~"

July 21, 2009, 03:53 AM

majed2000

July 21, 2009, 06:20 AM

again, another dangerous play from Tsubasa. The ball is on the air and higher than normal height which is dangerous for a kick to be that high. Come on ref, where's your good judgement. And the subsequent foul for barging to Callusias (which in this case in his GK area) should be pointed out also.

tsubasa wasn't that much close to the goalkeeper face or his body when he hit the ball ,beside that the goalkeeper wasn't n his area ...look again at P 08 ,they both are out .

beside all that ,let us say that the ref did a mistake which is happening n real life score alot ,so u shouldn't be complaining about it ,you wanted CT to be much closer to real life ,or that because it was advantage 4 tsubasa....

Invis

July 21, 2009, 06:24 AM

I predict Tsubasa will stay in mid-air for a few seconds and do an overhead haha.

I do agree. I've had the exact prediction since I saw the ball didn't go in :P

It will be an overhead kick :x

@Mail

Though, I agree with your statement about the rules and that it's more likely that Tsubasa did a dangerous play, it's still a fantasy soccer manga. Come on, you can't always apply real life rules for it. I was already happy, when the ref saw Marientos (or however he is spelled...^^) diving then.
As Captain Tsubasa haven't always being realistic, I don't see why it should suddenly start taking all rules into consideration.

Shinji

July 21, 2009, 07:13 AM

beside all that ,let us say that the ref did a mistake which is happening n real life score alot
For me, it's not a mistake. Tsubasa and Callusias went for the ball, and touched the ball. Then, there was a collision, body contact happens in soccer. If there was a foul everytime a player touched another one...
It'd be a foul if Tsubasa kicked the ball if Callusias had the ball, if he kicked Callusias, or if he charged Callusias if Callusias had the ball. Or in Callusias' case, if Callusias went for Tsubasa and not the ball.
It's another nice judgement from the referee for me.

As Captain Tsubasa haven't always being realistic, I don't see why it should suddenly start taking all rules into consideration.
Rules are taken into consideration. Fonseca and Payol mentioned a foul play from Callusias, Makelolo and Marientos mentioned a dangerous play from Tsubasa. The referee just judged that it wasn't the case.

And I wonder how far must Takahashi go for the readers to understand: he drew players from both sides mentioning a foul, he drew the referee hesitating and not whistling... So, obviously, rules are taken into consideration, with human, realistic referees. Some are laxists, some are going easy, others are precise, utterly annoying or make stupid decisions.
Real soccer fans should know about the incident between Schumacher and Battiston in the '86 world cup...
The human referees and their decisions is in fact a pretty realistic element.

Invis

July 21, 2009, 08:40 AM

For me, it's not a mistake. Tsubasa and Callusias went for the ball, and touched the ball. Then, there was a collision, body contact happens in soccer. If there was a foul everytime a player touched another one...
It'd be a foul if Tsubasa kicked the ball if Callusias had the ball, if he kicked Callusias, or if he charged Callusias if Callusias had the ball. Or in Callusias' case, if Callusias went for Tsubasa and not the ball.
It's another nice judgement from the referee for me.

Rules are taken into consideration. Fonseca and Payol mentioned a foul play from Callusias, Makelolo and Marientos mentioned a dangerous play from Tsubasa. The referee just judged that it wasn't the case.

And I wonder how far must Takahashi go for the readers to understand: he drew players from both sides mentioning a foul, he drew the referee hesitating and not whistling... So, obviously, rules are taken into consideration, with human, realistic referees. Some are laxists, some are going easy, others are precise, utterly annoying or make stupid decisions.
Real soccer fans should know about the incident between Schumacher and Battiston in the '86 world cup...
The human referees and their decisions is in fact a pretty realistic element.

Well, the rules are always debattable, for me it was a "hohes Bein" (german, don't know what's the term in english), meaning it was possible to hurt Callusias if it goes wrong, because the leg was in such a high position. It wasn't a direct attack though, just possible to hurt.

I'm not complaining about the ref (what should I do complaining about the ref in a manga^^). He's doing what he's supposed to do, but where just discussing the decision. I would have whistled, though it doesn't mean it had to be done.

Well, I also kind of laughed at the end of the first half, when Natureza was as the side line near the penalty area and the spectators were counting down till the end of the half...^^ At least in this time, no ref is ending the half while there's an offensive going an and in the enemy or around the enemy penalty area. I haven't seen any referee stopping an offensive play that is such progresses as depicted there, because the time is up. They usually wait until the ball is cleared or outside the game field.

I'll still heavily enjoy CT, but just my two cents :)
And again, great job, Shinji.

majed2000

July 21, 2009, 08:48 AM

It's another nice judgement from the referee for me.

yeah ,i see it was a good judgement 4 the referee too, i am saying even if it was a mistake or bad judgmement or not ,Mail shouldn't complain about it ,it doesn't mean that i see it as a mistake.

Shinji

July 21, 2009, 09:32 AM

majed2000

July 21, 2009, 10:26 AM

I never said that you were complaining about the referee, never said that you shouldn't discuss it and never said that you saw this as a mistake.

I just threw my two cents as well.

To Invis in particular: Why the laugh? Don't tell me that you never saw (well, heard) supporters counting 'till the count reaches 0? That's an ambient effect, it doesn't mean that the play would have ended. It was just for Natureza, who wears number 0, to score with a 0 angle shoot when the count reaches 0.

sorry , i misunderstood u.

about ,Nat's shoot ,it is the first time i notic that he meant to score at count 0, i thought he was gust counting to score befor the end of the time ...really cool .

byway ,i have seen many goals like this ( from the same angle ) even a harder angle as well ,i will try to search for them to post it here.

Invis

July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM

I never said that you were complaining about the referee, never said that you shouldn't discuss it and never said that you saw this as a mistake.

I just threw my two cents as well.

To Invis in particular: Why the laugh? Don't tell me that you never saw (well, heard) supporters counting 'till the count reaches 0? That's an ambient effect, it doesn't mean that the play would have ended. It was just for Natureza, who wears number 0, to score with a 0 angle shoot when the count reaches 0.

Really? Uh, then my bad. I misinterpreted then. Then kind of forget what I said and I'm looking forward for the end :D

Shinji

July 21, 2009, 10:40 AM

I know, it's because of the dumb referee during the match against France Jr. Youth who refused goals everytime ;)

Silen

July 21, 2009, 11:11 AM

to Invis, but not to be particularly against you ^_^ I'm just making some considerations

what i completely agree with Shinji is

rules are taken into consideration, with human, realistic referees. Some are laxists, some are going easy, others are precise, utterly annoying or make stupid decisions.exactly as it happens in real soccer
i've seen tons of times a referee not whistling at a foul, for any reason already given, while other players, speakers, coaches and half of the stadium protesting aganist his (well, right now we must add also "her" :p) decision
during the International World Youth in Paris, in the original CT arc, we also found one referee, the semi-final France vs. All-Japan one, who seemed to be clearly in favour of the home team.
I guess that almost everyone had at least once thought he might be corrupted... ;)
and here, I can easily make a real soccer example with Moggi scandal in Juventus
[hr]

I know, it's because of the dumb referee during the match against France Jr. Youth who refused goals everytime ;)
oh, well, seems that while i was posting, Shinji-sama made my same thought :tem

angel1980

July 22, 2009, 01:21 AM

Chapter 139 is out (btw it's being spelled 138 in the download page atm).

Un-freaking-believable, THE MATCH IS STILL NOT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shinji

July 22, 2009, 01:34 AM

Thanks, it's corrected.

I just love all the build-up for Tsubasa's reaction in this chapter. It's not just like the usual "flashback-of-what-we've-already-seen", it's more, it feels like everything was drawn for this very moment. Really, it's... Brilliant.

chaos_master

July 22, 2009, 02:20 AM

A bit surprised by the fact Tsubasa didn't use an overhead to score, but this is much better. Isn't it the same Zenten Diaz uses, but hitting the ball with the spikes and not the heel? The overall lack of action is nicely compensated by the flashbacks, as Shinji already pointed out.

Now then, was that shot strong enough to go in just like that? Won't some of the defenders be able to react? Could Naturezza dash all the way to the goalline to deflect the ball? Somehow, I feel it too simple for Tsubasa to score with "just" that :)

Shinji

July 22, 2009, 02:38 AM

Diaz didn't use his hand, he ran, jumped, and did his somersault in the air, hitting the ball with the back of his shin.
Since Tsubasa was falling, used his arm, and had less margin to hit the ball, i think it's much more impressive... Although indeed, the shoot must be weaker because of the circumstances.

I don't think any human being, even the ones in CT, can make it on time. I wouldn't be surprised to see a sideback run from the sides to block it usually, but since Olgado and Robecaro were both near Tsubasa...

buddahmaster

July 22, 2009, 03:53 AM

Even if someone reacted to block the shot I think that it's going in more of a lob motion so it'll just fall into the goal, just my opinion from what I saw in the chapter.

majed2000

July 22, 2009, 04:22 AM

if there is no chanse for any player to catch that ball ,maybe it will hit the goal post ,and tsubasa will react again to the deflected ball and score the final goal wz an overhead shoot as he always used to.

Pehu

July 22, 2009, 08:43 AM

Well, I also kind of laughed at the end of the first half, when Natureza was as the side line near the penalty area and the spectators were counting down till the end of the half...^^ At least in this time, no ref is ending the half while there's an offensive going an and in the enemy or around the enemy penalty area. I haven't seen any referee stopping an offensive play that is such progresses as depicted there, because the time is up. They usually wait until the ball is cleared or outside the game field.

I'll still heavily enjoy CT, but just my two cents :)
And again, great job, Shinji.

Well, there was one time where a referee ended the first half while Brazil had the ball, inside of the opponent's area, and Pelé scored one second after the referee whistled. lol.

To Invis in particular: Why the laugh? Don't tell me that you never saw (well, heard) supporters counting 'till the count reaches 0? That's an ambient effect, it doesn't mean that the play would have ended. It was just for Natureza, who wears number 0, to score with a 0 angle shoot when the count reaches 0.

Well, I do think that Fifa have a rule against showing the clock on any big screen inside the Stadium, as that could bring problems to the referees. So, for me, the only problem is how they all know exactly the time left for the first half, and can yell it synchronized. And yeah, I never saw it on a soccer match.

But I really liked this flashback chapter, even with the lack of action, the flashback was really well drawn.

Blabble

July 22, 2009, 08:56 AM

ok i'm wrong. It's not your usual overhead.

I mean wtf was that, Tsubasa? You frigging inhuman being.

Shinji

July 22, 2009, 08:58 AM

Well, I do think that Fifa have a rule against showing the clock on any big screen inside the Stadium, as that could bring problems to the referees.

Here is a big screen inside a stadium with a clock (http://www.licencephoto.com/mini_photos/kMdMRT0sVi/Football-Soccer1.jpg).

For World Youth the clock was clearly visible to the public, I guess they are smart enough to look at it and count.

And in Road to 2002, only Natureza is counting.

Sherlock Holmes

July 22, 2009, 04:24 PM

So tsubasa is trying to score a "gol de placa" huh? Fun. Natureza is a freaking beast, I repeat. He's a beast. It's taking Rivaul and Tsubasa to stop him.

I can't see how Tsubasa could stand up to him in the world cup. Though, if the manga ever gets to the world cup, I suppose they would follow the real 2002 world cup and make Japan lose, and Brazil win. Japan did well enough in 2002.

Shinji

July 23, 2009, 01:08 AM

Well, I sure can see how Tsubasa can stand up to him.
I mean, I could talk about his combi play with Misaki, Hyuga and all the other members of the golden age...
But, just put Wakabayashi instead of Rechard in this match and that's enough >_>

"~Mail~"

July 23, 2009, 04:07 AM

Its better that Takahashi put Genzo in RM and make Barca shred to tears in their unpregnatable fortress. If he did that, then Rivaul & Tsubasa won't be able to play together anymore for good.

majed2000

July 23, 2009, 04:52 AM

the new chapter is out ,and some of my Predictions came tru ,i can see now that both player ( tsubasa & ornatureza ) will hit the ball at the same time again ,or my be Nat will be faster a little bit and deflect the ball ,but .....again as i said before tsubasa will react and score wz an overhead to score the victorious goal .

Invis

July 23, 2009, 06:43 AM

That is one heck of a dramatic end o.o

The ball aligning so nicely to the goal line, hrhr.
We'll see how has still the most determination and power in the end :)
I fear Tsubasa could hurt himself again :x

buddahmaster

July 23, 2009, 07:29 AM

This last goal is being dragged on so damn much

chaos_master

July 23, 2009, 08:18 AM

I guessed it too - Tsubasa didn't score with this move and needs to actually beat Natureza one-on-one in this match before it finishes. It will be a bit disappointing if he does so in an overhead duel again, like he did in the game against Brazil, so I'm expecting something different.

Also loved the little picture of Sho when Roberto was explaining about the counter shot mistake Natureza did :D

Sherlock Holmes

July 23, 2009, 08:13 PM

I'm having flashbacks of Teikoku vs Deimon in the Christmas Bowl in ES21 here.
And Goku vs Freeza.

abo3omar

July 24, 2009, 01:30 AM

WOW..Tsubasa's last pose holding the net is AAAAWWWWWWWWWWW! Just great! I'll put it in my signature :p

Thanks Shinji for all of this =) & Thanks to takahashi of course..and to everyone for all the fun we had..and we will have lol..I'm just so excited with this match-end chapter.

angel1980

July 24, 2009, 03:54 AM

Yeah thanks a lot Shinji. Awesome match. Awesome release pace. Awesome mod job. All-round wonderful. Thanks again!

Shinji

July 24, 2009, 04:16 AM

You're making it sounds like everything's over >_>

The series are far from being over,
This arc hasn't ended yet,
And we didn't even hear the end of the match's whistle!

abo3omar

July 24, 2009, 05:47 AM

I'm just so excited with this match-end chapter.

^^

It's impossible to have 2 more goals in the remaining time lol

Invis

July 24, 2009, 06:44 AM

That's a whole chapter for the ball just crossing the line from the line xD

abo3omar

July 24, 2009, 06:59 AM

Which makes it TOO obvious that this IS the last goal lol

[hr]
I like my signature :D I really like this shot

buddahmaster

July 24, 2009, 07:11 AM

FINALLY, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!

abo3omar

July 25, 2009, 03:10 AM

OMG..Blueno was really great here.."a bunch of pachi-pachi for him :P" Really this manga teaches sports people something!

Invis

July 25, 2009, 07:27 AM

I've almost felt sorry for Natu... just almost.

Seems he can't do the Tsubasa thing, the game's not over :P

tyug

July 26, 2009, 09:13 AM

hmmms... heart warming... but also the last page was kinda stupid =P. Who doesn't think tsubasa is amazing after this match?

chaos_master

July 26, 2009, 09:37 AM

I do - Natureza is THE MAN! :D

"~Mail~"

July 26, 2009, 09:19 PM

I'm with u chaos :beer.. Natu is man coming off a boy cocoon and though he was defeated, but he was only defeated by two biggest rival + Takahashi-san :pwned :ffwub

Sherlock Holmes

July 26, 2009, 09:21 PM

Yeah. It took both Tsubasa AND Rivaul to stop Natureza. When it was just Tsubasa vs Natureza, Natureza was owning him.

Pretty much the only reason he didn't win in the end was that he wasn't the main character. If he was, then time wouldn't be up until he at least tied the game.