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Izkity
July 21, 2009, 07:16 AM
On one hand, Renji has achieved Bankai - however it doesn't appear to be all that powerful (as compared to others). Renji's sword is heavy and can strike with a lot of force behind it, but is quite easy to dodge if you're nimble, like Rukia is. The same goes for his Bankai - if you keep on your toes, you have a fairly good chance of dodging most of the blows. Although, his Shikai means that he can do long-range attacks.

Rukia hasn't achieved Bankai yet, but appears to have a fairly powerful Shikai; she was able to freeze Grimmjow in position, if only for a few minutes. She is also fairly light and nimble, therefore has a better chance of dodging some of Renji's attacks.

Who do you think would win?

Mifune_Taichou
July 21, 2009, 07:20 AM
Right now I have to say Renji-when the chips are down he's a bankai user and she isnt-she shouldnt eb able to kill him but who knows. She is fast but i dont see her being able to dodge Higa Zekko. I also dont think she could evade or block Hokotsu Taihou. And if he can really do Higga Zekkou in bankai like he did in the filler shed be toast...but with that said I think it would be close now and if she gets bankai she would be by far the supperior shinigami. At least she has an espada kill under her belt

Izkity
July 21, 2009, 07:33 AM
At least she has an espada kill under her belt
Although having said that, she was only able to kill Aaroniero because he was an arrogant jerk. If he'd attacked her properly instead of just playing around, she wouldn't have had a chance. But I get your point :amuse

Exodi
July 21, 2009, 07:34 AM
Let's see if this makes sense:

I think Rukia is a better fighter, but Renji is more powerful.

By better fighter I mean:

1. She's probably quicker, lighter, more nimble, like you said.
2. Her zanpakutou has several abilities
3. She seems to be better at Kidou, and we know she uses it a lot as part of her fighting style

But Renji would probably win anyway, because he has a huge bankai.

Mifune_Taichou
July 21, 2009, 08:27 AM
Although having said that, she was only able to kill Aaroniero because he was an arrogant jerk. If he'd attacked her properly instead of just playing around, she wouldn't have had a chance. But I get your point :amuse

yh thats true though technically she was impared because he looked like kaien-one she would have hit him with that spell if she didnt need to remove kaiens face first and two she wouldnt have let herself get impaled like that.

But renji would stilll win unless she gets a bankai lol

exacta
July 21, 2009, 09:12 AM
Renji has bankai. If he didn't I don't think Renji would have a chance defeating Rukia with his shikai, but thats not the case. Rukia's shikai shouldn't be able to handle a bankai, even if its Renji's.

And yeah,I think we all agree, Rukia caught Aaroniero off guard, and she had to let herself get impaled in order to do so. She had no chance against him in a straightforward fight.

kkck
July 21, 2009, 10:51 AM
Just bankai is more than enough to make renji get an extremely easy win IMHO. Even without bankai, renji should still be stronger, faster and an overall better swordsman than rukia. Without bankai he could have trouble with rukia's ice type zampakuto but just 1 hit from zabimaru will be more than enough to break appart rukia's frail and tiny body.

juice88
July 21, 2009, 10:59 AM
renji definately because even byakuya felt it was necessary to use a bankai to beat a bankai because with his personality he wouldnt use it if he didnt need to

i think zaraki aizen and yama is the only one capable of fighting a bankai without using there own

kkck
July 21, 2009, 11:19 AM
renji definately because even byakuya felt it was necessary to use a bankai to beat a bankai because with his personality he wouldnt use it if he didnt need to

i think zaraki aizen and yama is the only one capable of fighting a bankai without using there own
I don't think byakuya really needed his bankai to win though. The only reason renji lasted more than a few seconds against byakuya was because he had extremely detailed knowledge of his abilities and special techniques. If he hadn't had that, he would not have lasted a second.

Look at this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/142/10/

I really doubt byakuya actually needed bankai to defeat a restrained man who could barely control his own power. IMHO byakuya just used it to prove how great the difference in power is between them. Byakuya could have just as easily used his shikai or any hado to blow renji appart.

Eddy01741
July 21, 2009, 11:34 AM
Without bankai, I'd say it's a close win in favor of rukia. Much more useful shikai, with 3 abiliites (well, only two practical abilities). Plus, she can actually use kidou unlike Renji. Renji still wins in terms of brute strength, but I think Rukia's got the win in speed and kidou, as well as just versatility of zanpakutou abilities.

However, Renji's bankai tips it way too much in his favor though. Yes, it's clusmy and slow, it's basically just his shikai, but like 20x bigger and with a cannon that he can use every once in a while, however, that size difference gives him extra power and reach as well as a more versatile fighting style all around. Rukia is gonna have a hard time getting attacks in on Renji with such a huge bankai chasing her around, not to mention it has decent defense as well.

So my opinion is that in Shikai, Rukia would take a close win, including bankai, she'd lose pretty bad.

JP_Russell
July 21, 2009, 01:11 PM
I don't think Rukia would even be able to dodge attacks from Renji's bankai easily. Even Byakuya, who had been evading it, got caught up with by it and had to grapple with its teeth a bit.

Anyway, easy win for Byakuya once he uses bankai.

kkck
July 21, 2009, 01:54 PM
Frankly, I think rukia would have a considerable amount of trouble just with renji's shikai. It has been kinda downplayed due to renji having bankai but it still has quite a bit of power.

Mifune_Taichou
July 21, 2009, 02:20 PM
Frankly, I think rukia would have a considerable amount of trouble just with renji's shikai. It has been kinda downplayed due to renji having bankai but it still has quite a bit of power.

I have to say I think renji is potentially more dangerous in shikai until he learns to really use his bankai

Ozehro
July 22, 2009, 04:13 AM
bankai bankai bankai!

yes Tite has downplayed bankai's a lot. but they are still very important dammit!
Rukia is like a 3rd seat If I'm right so Renji easily takes the prize!

Josear XIII
July 22, 2009, 11:37 AM
The battles are getting to a point of shame, rukia vs renji? o.o come on, is better to see a monkey trying to breath underwater. In the end get to the factor that renji is in love with rukia, so he would lose just like that. Too bad

Raizen
July 22, 2009, 03:37 PM
Renji would win. But only b.c his bankai can break rukia's ice and attack at the same time. However, is rukia can use kido even half of what byakuya can and disrupt renji's bankai, then she can actually win

DARK
July 30, 2009, 01:52 PM
Renji. He's a Lieutenant.

Eddy01741
July 30, 2009, 03:51 PM
So... are you saying Omaeda>Yumi, Ikkaku, and Rukia because Omaeda is a VC and Ikkaku is 3rd, and yumi/rukia are 5th seats?


That said, i agree that Renji> Rukia, mainly because of his bankai.

Tsukisama
July 30, 2009, 03:56 PM
So... are you saying Omaeda>Yumi, Ikkaku, and Rukia because Omaeda is a VC and Ikkaku is 3rd, and yumi/rukia are 5th seats?


That said, i agree that Renji> Rukia, mainly because of his bankai.

Rukia isn't a seated officer at all, but the reason for this isn't because she lacks the strength. She doesn't have a seat, because Byakuya wants to keep her from going on dangerous missions and thus uses his connection to prevent her from being seated. So, one shouldn't hold her not having a seat against her in terms of meaning anything regard to her abilities.

From what she has shown, I would think she could easily be the vice-captain of the 13th division if she were allowed the opportunity.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 04:02 PM
I would say renji takes this one though and not just because of bankai or position. I would thnk renji is faster, better swordsman, stronger and has higher reiatsu. Not to mention he would have more experience than rukia considering the missions he goes to are more dangerous than the one srukia takes.

Eddy01741
July 30, 2009, 04:11 PM
Rukia isn't a seated officer at all, but the reason for this isn't because she lacks the strength. She doesn't have a seat, because Byakuya wants to keep her from going on dangerous missions and thus uses his connection to prevent her from being seated. So, one shouldn't hold her not having a seat against her in terms of meaning anything regard to her abilities.

From what she has shown, I would think she could easily be the vice-captain of the 13th division if she were allowed the opportunity.
Oh... must have gotten lost in my memory, I could have sworn that she was like a 5th seat or something, but I guess not.

And yeah, she could definitely be a VC with her ablities, at the very least she would be a strong 3rd seat (not as much as Ikkaku of course), seeing as how she's shown herself to be stronger than those two idiots sharing 3rd seat at the moment, and considering how easily Chad took out the 8th squad 3rd seat.

Tsukisama
July 30, 2009, 04:38 PM
I would say renji takes this one though and not just because of bankai or position. I would thnk renji is faster, better swordsman, stronger and has higher reiatsu. Not to mention he would have more experience than rukia considering the missions he goes to are more dangerous than the one srukia takes.

I would agree. The only areas with which Rukia clearly outshines Renji are kidou and IMO intelligence. While just having a bankai does equal being uber strength, it does reflect a certain level of prowess and power that Rukia does not yet possess.

I don't think Rukia is intrinsically weaker than Renji though. Renji has just had more training and ambition to reach higher strengths. He trained with Ikkaku to overcome Byakuya, whereas the most intensive training that we know Rukia to have had was the training with Kaien on her shikai. If Rukia were to put in the same amount of effort, I think she would win this contest, but she isn't there yet.

DARK
July 30, 2009, 06:38 PM
So... are you saying Omaeda>Yumi, Ikkaku, and Rukia because Omaeda is a VC and Ikkaku is 3rd, and yumi/rukia are 5th seats?


That said, i agree that Renji> Rukia, mainly because of his bankai.

Rukia is not a 5th seat, she is an unseated officer with the strength to become one. Typically speaking, I would believe Renji is stronger than Rukia. If anything, he is a Lieutenant-rank, but he has a Bankai. That makes his power 5-10 fold stronger. Besides, Rukia even said herself that she is not good with a sword. She also mentioned that her Kidou abilities are average. "Average" vs "exceptional"- you be the judge.
As for Ikkaku, he has a Bankai too, meaning that his strength increased five to tenfold than Omaeda who probably did not learn Bankai.
Yumichika was able to defeat a Lieutenant solely because of his zanpakuto's ability to absorb spirit energy. In pure strength alone, I would not think Yumi can take down Shuuhei.

Eddy01741
July 30, 2009, 07:03 PM
Renji in bankai is most definitey not 5-10 times stronger, at this point in time, I'd say 2 times stronger, tops. In at least 10 years he will be able to use bankai effectively, who knows how long it'll take him to master it though.

Rukia's kidou abilities are average, Renji's kidou abilities are nonexistent, you be the judge.

Yumichika was just an example of how rank doesn't equate to power. Yumichika's shikai is hax until somebody finds a way to defeat it (like cutting the vines before they get to you or something).


Anyways, I already agreed that Renji>Rukia, I don't see why your arguing...

DARK
July 30, 2009, 10:16 PM
Renji in bankai is most definitey not 5-10 times stronger, at this point in time, I'd say 2 times stronger, tops. In at least 10 years he will be able to use bankai effectively, who knows how long it'll take him to master it though.

Rukia's kidou abilities are average, Renji's kidou abilities are nonexistent, you be the judge.

Yumichika was just an example of how rank doesn't equate to power. Yumichika's shikai is hax until somebody finds a way to defeat it (like cutting the vines before they get to you or something).


Anyways, I already agreed that Renji>Rukia, I don't see why your arguing...

I was arguing on the case of the Vice Captains > Seated Officers.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 10:30 PM
I was arguing on the case of the Vice Captains > Seated Officers.

If you look at very specific cases you will find obvious and significant exceptions but in general there is a more than significant difference. The VC plus VC seated officers and shinigami only add up to 15(there are 18 seated officers in each division)

Renji88
July 31, 2009, 10:22 AM
renji.
he has better attack, stamina, defense and shunpo
plus he has a bankai


(Tite said that renji is too strong for a VC but still not that good to be a captain)

Mifune_Taichou
July 31, 2009, 07:48 PM
I would agree. The only areas with which Rukia clearly outshines Renji are kidou and IMO intelligence. While just having a bankai does equal being uber strength, it does reflect a certain level of prowess and power that Rukia does not yet possess.

I don't think Rukia is intrinsically weaker than Renji though. Renji has just had more training and ambition to reach higher strengths. He trained with Ikkaku to overcome Byakuya, whereas the most intensive training that we know Rukia to have had was the training with Kaien on her shikai. If Rukia were to put in the same amount of effort, I think she would win this contest, but she isn't there yet.

defo right now-Renji wins. Not necessarily because of his Bankai though. Id say his shikai is more dangerous to people who do not have hierro. We've seen rukia take out a resurected espada so renji having bankai doesnt mean he wins automatically. However even in shikai I am not sure she has an answer to Higga Zekkou. I think Rukia has a lot of potential to have a good bankai and if she gets one I think shed be stronger than Renji. IMO his bankai just sucks ASS..unless he can do what he did in the bount filler and use Higa Zekkou in bankai (not Hikotsu taihou).

Right now though-renji wins surely