Admiral vs Admiral: Who is the strongest?

[Gecko Moria]

The battle between the two already revealed admirals
Pretty close wouldnt you say? Both have logias and know how to use them.:o

Use this thread to discuss the outcome of a battle between any of the three admirals with another

[Tenryuken]

huh?
I am the first voter and I choosed Aokiji.
judging from their power I would have choosen Kizaru but Oda said that Aokiji is the strongest Marine so I am pretty sure that Kuzan must be really badass even without his DF.

[Akainu]

wasn't that a misconception and that line rather was implied to say all the three admirals are dubbed "greatest fighting power of Marine HQ" ? because I'm pretty sure that Kizaru also got such a line upon introduction...

[Fox666]

I vote for Kizaru... his DF has advantage, I guess a plasma explosion can finish ice. (I have heard a theory that Kizaru would fall if someone reflect the light, but reflecting don't hurt...)

[Razh]

Kizaru can shoot lasers. Enough to melt any ice.

But then again, we don't really know if Aokiji could deflect it with ice.

But then again, Kizaru is a lot faster, so I would have to giwe my vote to him.

[neomaster121]

huh?
I am the first voter and I choosed Aokiji.
judging from their power I would have choosen Kizaru but Oda said that Aokiji is the strongest Marine so I am pretty sure that Kuzan must be really badass even without his DF.

nope thats what i thought too
but its a mistake
its more saying that hes 1 of the 3 strongest marines

i think kizaru would win using light and speed he could create lots of heat

[kkck]

I think that their powers would be useless againts each other. Light or lasers would either melt ice, be reflected or just go through. None of that really hurts aokiji IMO.
Kisaru is light, he doesnt even have a material body. I dont see how ice can hurt him. For all we know, he can walk throught the ice as if nothing happened. I dont think that even deserves to be call a tie, there simply is no fight....

[Sachsenhesse]

aokiji ^^

lol wrote in german sorry :/

even because i dont think ice is his limitation, ice becomes water und water outmatches devilfruits

[Onomatopoeia]

Logia intangibility:Tie

This fight can't be decided until we get rid of Logia Intangibility. Because it'll just end up as Smoker vs Ace.

[Franckie]

wasn't that a misconception and that line rather was implied to say all the three admirals are dubbed "greatest fighting power of Marine HQ" ? because I'm pretty sure that Kizaru also got such a line upon introduction...

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=400266

You're right. Both Aokiji and Kizaru possess the same hype.

[Gecko Moria]

Logia intangibility:Tie

This fight can't be decided until we get rid of Logia Intangibility. Because it'll just end up as Smoker vs Ace.

I decided to vote tie in the end cause of that.
But i guess they both good enough to have haki so they may be able to hit each other. And Kizaru being able to travel at the speed of light could run circles around Aokiji.

[Tenryuken]

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=400266

You're right. Both Aokiji and Kizaru possess the same hype.

No, he isn't right.
It is said that Aokiji is the strogest Marine.
The thing that Robin said is that the "three" of them are the Marines strongest battle force meaning that if they fight together there is no way to stop them.
So it's basicaly that the 2 other Admirals are 2nd and 3rd strengh of the Marines or just that the association of the 3 Admirals is more effective than any other Marine association.


I decided to vote tie in the end cause of that.
But i guess they both good enough to have haki so they may be able to hit each other. And Kizaru being able to travel at the speed of light could run circles around Aokiji.

Kizaru can only travel straight foward at the speed of light and he need "mirrors" to ricochet in order to turn.

[Imitorar]

No, he isn't right.
It is said that Aokiji is the strogest Marine.
The thing that Robin said is that the "three" of them are the Marines strongest battle force meaning that if they fight together there is no way to stop them.
So it's basicaly that the 2 other Admirals are 2nd and 3rd strengh of the Marines or just that the association of the 3 Admirals is more effective than any other Marine association.
No, they are both called the strongest fighter in Marine Headquarters, because all of the Admirals collectively are. This panel (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Imitorar/?action=view&current=StrongestMarineResolutionPanel1.jpg) refers to Aokiji. And this panel (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Imitorar/?action=view&current=StrongestMarineResolutionPanel2.jpg) refers to Kizaru. Compare the kanji, they are the same.

[Tenryuken]

No, they are both called the strongest fighter in Marine Headquarters, because all of the Admirals collectively are. This panel (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Imitorar/?action=view&current=StrongestMarineResolutionPanel1.jpg) refers to Aokiji. And this panel (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/Imitorar/?action=view&current=StrongestMarineResolutionPanel2.jpg) refers to Kizaru. Compare the kanji, they are the same.

Well your exemple is better than he's.
Since the symbols are the same I will pressume that you're right.

[Razh]

even because i dont think ice is his limitation, ice becomes water und water outmatches devilfruits

Aokiji can only control ice. He can only freeze water. Melting his ice into water would only damage him, or in the best case scenario, wouldn't help him at all.

[Amekage]

Logia intangibility:Tie

This fight can't be decided until we get rid of Logia Intangibility. Because it'll just end up as Smoker vs Ace.

Would be my answer, too.
There would be an exception if ice would counter light or light would counter ice but that would be just some weird speculation.

(What would happen if Kizaru crushed Aokiji and immediatly took away the crushed Ice? He could scatter the parts of Aokiji and return, remember Kizarus speed of light. Aokiji needed time to rebuild his body: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/320/07/ even if this period of time was very short. This solution might be possible if Aokiji rebuilts his body of the same parts he lost by getting crushed)

[Sachsenhesse]

Aokiji can only control ice. He can only freeze water. Melting his ice into water would only damage him, or in the best case scenario, wouldn't help him at all.

and thats what i mean by "i dont think his limitation is ice" also what happens if light hits the ice? the ice starts to melt, thats the worst thing on aokiji, his element is based on water, we dont know exactly where this starts and ends, but i would give him the advantage for sure against devilfruit users

[Onomatopoeia]

and thats what i mean by "i dont think his limitation is ice" also what happens if light hits the ice? the ice starts to melt, thats the worst thing on aokiji, his element is based on water, we dont know exactly where this starts and ends, but i would give him the advantage for sure against devilfruit users

Unless the DF in question is Croc's then it hurts both of them. Lets say it melts, then what? Lets say it gets to waist height? Well then they're both screwed and it's Mano a Mano or the winner is who ever is taller.

But that seems sort of a dumb way to win the fight.

Anyways can't Logias create a limitless amount of their own element? Or at least create as much as they want from the surrounding environment? And anyways Amekage I'm pretty sure Aokijii was in pieces when Robin split him in two, but he seemed to be able to re create easily enough...

[Gecko Moria]

If Aokiji get totally melted wouldnt he be screwed? he can only control ice and not water so...:x
But if he only got partly melted he could just freeze that part again.

[RichardMNixon]

I'd like to vote for who would win without intangibility but I'm not entirely sure of that either. Kizaru is certainly faster, but Aokiji could be stronger, he took a Gomu Gomu no Pistol to the stomach without even flinching. That and he froze the ocean to such a huge extent, couldn't he do the same to the air and freeze everything around him?

[Onomatopoeia]

Just out of curiosity, could the phenomenon known as Supercooling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooled) be a good way to find out how cold Ice Age is?

[Tenryuken]

Anyways can't Logias create a limitless amount of their own element?

Logia powers are unlimited so you're right.


That and he froze the ocean to such a huge extent, couldn't he do the same to the air and freeze everything around him?

I never tought of that but it could be.
I know kizaru is light but what about air?
Air CAN freeze and if you can't breath than you're death.

[Rotten The Wizard]

Aokiji is Kizaru's natural enemy

its a known fact. light bounces off ice/white

Kizaru would get curbstomped

[bittman]

I like the idea that "can't aokoji freeze air?". Really, if logia's were used in the way people think they can be, Luffy never would have touched crocodile. I mean, if the man can turn himself into sand, why didn't he do it to dodge water attacks?

Point is, just because an element can do something, doesn't mean the logia user can do it too.
* Lightning kills people very easily irl, Enel killed no-one. If someone was lucky, technically their heart would just stop for a short period.
* Fire heats the air which causes suffocation. Ace should insta win against everything in that case.
* Smoker uses smoke. Inhale, suffocate. Insta win again.
* Aokoji is ice, he can freeze the air.
* Blackbeard is gravity, he can insta-sendyoutothemoon.

Point is, don't go off what a logia can possibly do. Go off what we've seen.

And off what we've seen, Kizaru would win because of his lasers. I still voted Aokoji because I do expect ice can reflect the light and that I hope Aokoji is the marine final boss.

[kkck]

I like the idea that "can't aokoji freeze air?". Really, if logia's were used in the way people think they can be, Luffy never would have touched crocodile. I mean, if the man can turn himself into sand, why didn't he do it to dodge water attacks?

Point is, just because an element can do something, doesn't mean the logia user can do it too.
* Lightning kills people very easily irl, Enel killed no-one. If someone was lucky, technically their heart would just stop for a short period.
* Fire heats the air which causes suffocation. Ace should insta win against everything in that case.
* Smoker uses smoke. Inhale, suffocate. Insta win again.
* Aokoji is ice, he can freeze the air.
* Blackbeard is gravity, he can insta-sendyoutothemoon.

Point is, don't go off what a logia can possibly do. Go off what we've seen.

And off what we've seen, Kizaru would win because of his lasers. I still voted Aokoji because I do expect ice can reflect the light and that I hope Aokoji is the marine final boss.

I dont think aokiji will be able to freeze air, I do think oda isnt very scientific and is not going to make a logia THAT overpowered. If aokiji is suddenly able to do such a hax, then kizaru might as well just change the wavelenth of his light, turn his light into gamma rays and make aokiji get a cancer massive organ failure....

[Franckie]

Why are people bringing real-life physics into a manga debate? It's obvious this match is a tie. Both Aokiji and Kizaru are on par with each other (equal hype) and neither Admiral has been shown to have the ability to bypass a logia's intangibility.


Well your exemple is better than he's.
Since the symbols are the same I will pressume that you're right.

The thread I have linked highlights that Aokiji and Kizaru have been described with the same kanji. :s

[Onomatopoeia]

I like the idea that "can't aokoji freeze air?". Really, if logia's were used in the way people think they can be, Luffy never would have touched crocodile. I mean, if the man can turn himself into sand, why didn't he do it to dodge water attacks?
It does have Aokiji creating Ice (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/320/09/) in air, he just needed some grass to make sure it kept form. So I can understand where the theory comes from.

That said after walking 3 1/2 miles in 1 and a half hours through a wind chill of -5 with nothing but a coat pants and a backpack I honestly want Kizaru to win.

[Tenryuken]

You do know that your argument point in the other direction?
But it's true, Aokiji can freeze air.

[Onomatopoeia]

You do know that your argument point in the other direction?
But it's true, Aokiji can freeze air.

I already called a tie earlier in the thread...

[goldb]

i voted aokiji coz he's my favourite marine, but even though they are both admirals and a lot of ppl are expecting a tie, i think there would be a clear winner between the two.
because they are both admirals and Marine HQ's most powerful fighters, i would expect the fight to be decided on how strong the person is without his DF. i guess they known some super rokushiki moves that are far superior to cp9 or something like that...

[Lord Rayleigh]

Kizaru's power is a weakness of Ao Kiji's power whereas the contrary is false.
Turning the place of the fight in real hell with the heat would be a problem for Ao Kiji who could not create ice. Turning the place in " absolute zero " with the ice would not prevent Kizaru from creating light.

Moreover, Kizaru has the power of speed thanks to light.

So, with no doubt, I choose Kizaru. I have always been a fan of the Light Light Fruit and imagined it during the W7 arc. I was thinking the name would be Hakou Hakou and not Pika Pika ...

[narutoschkraknives]

and thats what i mean by "i dont think his limitation is ice" also what happens if light hits the ice? the ice starts to melt, thats the worst thing on aokiji, his element is based on water, we dont know exactly where this starts and ends, but i would give him the advantage for sure against devilfruit users

this may sound wrongto you but i belive that aokiji's element is not based of watter he is a ice ice man there was already ice ice woman in a movie his abilitys or more phycological than scentific if u tryed to melt him he would turn well maybe he would burn or his weakness is salt. imo kizaru would win cuase i think he is stronger than aokiji.

[Gecko Moria]

Kizaru's power is a weakness of Ao Kiji's power whereas the contrary is false.
Turning the place of the fight in real hell with the heat would be a problem for Ao Kiji who could not create ice. Turning the place in " absolute zero " with the ice would not prevent Kizaru from creating light.

Moreover, Kizaru has the power of speed thanks to light.

So, with no doubt, I choose Kizaru. I have always been a fan of the Light Light Fruit and imagined it during the W7 arc. I was thinking the name would be Hakou Hakou and not Pika Pika ...

Hmm yes...if the heat from kizaru's lasers melted aokiji's ice body in water he wont be able to reform anymore since he cant control water, only ice. And yes Aokiji is no match for Kizaru in a speed battle.

[Superman]

I think Kizaru would win. Can someone explain what message smoker has for Luffy: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/321/15/! Did i miss something or not?

[bittman]

@ Superman: Off-topic, but no the message has never been said. In fact, Smoker hasn't received enough love at all lately.

On Topic: I'm with Kizaru, even though I like Aokoji more. As shown, the element is everything and the heat of Kizaru's light has a chance to defeat Aokoji, whereas there is no way Ice can hurt light. Reflect it maybe, but hit it definitely not.

In fact, on that note I can't think of something that can 'hit' light except maybe a Black Hole. I guess Kizaru will be one of those logia's which relies on Haki to defeat.

[Razh]

I think Kizaru would win. Can someone explain what message smoker has for Luffy: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/321/15/! Did i miss something or not?

It was probably something like:"I'm gonna get you boy!", since Aokiji commented how idiotic it was.
[hr]


In fact, on that note I can't think of something that can 'hit' light except maybe a Black Hole. I guess Kizaru will be one of those logia's which relies on Haki to defeat.

I guess it all depends how Oda will make it work. We don't excatly know if Kizaru has any limitations.
Yes, he can move fast, but only in a straight line, and he does use reflective surfaces for bigger distances. My guess is that he needs them as control points.
Maybe he's less effective during the night or in dark. Theoretically, Smoker could beat him if he could surround him with smoke completely. Maybe even Crocodile.

But I repeat, we still don't know how will Oda make his powers work and what will it be weak against.
Sure, gravity is a given, but gravity has advantage over everything.

[Superman]

I think smoker wanted to say that he is Luffys uncle or so:wtf...........cough cough....... sniff :barf. But this thread isnt the "What is Smokers message thread" thread!!! Who started this.....oh i see.......bittman and Razh that was so sure.:XD:XD:XD

That you both can learn about your horrible mistake :D i write: Kizaru wins against Aokiy, only to stay on topic and that this message doesnt get deleted.:XD:XD

Don't think that that little trick will work again. It's gonna take more than one token sentence to make a post even remotely on-topic. It takes at least a small paragraph. ;)

[firework]

Kizaru can blind Aokiji and keep kicking him at the speed of light, but even blind, not much can be done to him.
Aokiji can freeze Kizaru, thus ending his life.

I cant see either situation happening easily. Aokiji would win

[Onomatopoeia]

Kizaru can blind Aokiji and keep kicking him at the speed of light, but even blind, not much can be done to him.
Aokiji can freeze Kizaru, thus ending his life.

I cant see either situation happening easily. Aokiji would win

I'm pretty sure Ice can't freeze light.

[camil222]

ya its obvious you cant freeze light. its not an atom or anything. its something that acts like a particule and a wave at the same time. so if u cant freeze sound u def cant freeze light.

and in my opinion the fight would be lame and they couldnt hurt eachother. the only thing i could see hapening is that kizaru could melt aokiji. but aokiji wont be able to do a thing agaisnt him.

[Lemonadez]

Hmm yes...if the heat from kizaru's lasers melted aokiji's ice body in water he wont be able to reform anymore since he cant control water, only ice. And yes Aokiji is no match for Kizaru in a speed battle.

LOL, just because its Water meaning he cant turn into Ice? Remember Water turn into Ice. look Aokiji turn the entire land (squaremile of water) into Ice lol. Kizaru cant heat a squaremile of Ice. :P as long there Ice, his part of it.

[braindamage351]

Aokiji might be able to trap Kizaru with ice mirrors. Kizaru might laser pew pew Aokiji. But there's also a pretty big chance that it's just a logia stalemate.

[Razh]

There's no stalemate when one guy has an ice devil fruit which freezes stuff and another guy has a light devil fruit which shoots hot lasers at stuff.
Kuma managed to melt steel or iron (whatever it was) with that same laser.
Aokiji would be at a severe disadvantage in this fight. Kizaru could melt him with his lasers. His ability to become ice and recompose wouldn't help that much.

It's like we're in stone age...

Lol, trap Kizaru with ice mirrors? Aokiji wouldn't be so dumb. What stops Kizaru from shooting lasers in that situation?

[goldb]

Lol Ice Mirrors?, someone's been reading too much Bleach :p

@ Razh: Yeah if that happens Aokiji would be at a great disadvantage. But I don't think a fight between Admirals would be as simple as that. I always like to refer to Van Auger's opinion on DF users and how most of them they are solely dependant on their DF and once that's taken away, they are weak. I'd like to try and use that here, If those two were to fight..imo it would come down to more than just their DF powers.

[bittman]

Hmm, if we took away that intangibility bit they would have an awesomely epic sword fight I imagine.

Still, we've seen the admirals to be quite powerful without relying on intangibility:
* It took Kizaru 2-3 chapters of fighting before we were proven he was intangible. His quick movements and light-kicks were all high level, and I'm sure rely on the body just as much as the fruit.
* Aokoji revealed his intangibility early with Robin's attack, but did not need to resort to it again whilst fighting the monster trio or Luffy with a high defensive power.

So, if you took their intangibility away, I can still see Kizaru being a speedy fighter whilst Aokoji is primarily focused on defence. (And after looking at things in that way, I'm wondering if Akainu is all attack...).

As I said before though, in a battle Kizaru has to have the advantage of heat over ice, whether it makes him effective against Aokoji, and whether or not he will be a tougher opponent to others, is debatable. I still think Aokoji will be a later antagonist than Kizaru, but if they fought each other all the science points to Kizaru's win.

[Lord Rayleigh]

Ao Kiji's DF powers are normally useless against Ki Zaru. Ice Time and his others technics are not instantaneous technics, as it was shown in the Ao Kiji vs SHs fight, so, Ki Zaru cannot be frozen, he just have to melt the ice that is frozing him and he has enough time to do that.
About Ki Zaru's DF powers, I am not sure, they are useless against Ao Kiji.

Between the two Admirals, I can only see the fight ending like it did with Ace and BB : " Ice ? Light ? There's only one winner. "
The Darkness absorbed the Fire at the Barano Island. Here the Light would melt and make disappear all the water/Ice.
And Ao Kiji would finished surrounded by Light, beaten, as Ace finished, surrounded by Darkness.

[warhead92100]

just my 2 cents in the matter

i think ao kiji will definitely win with no effort at all.

1st kizaru's movements are all based on a linear path which when disrupted cancels his skill, unlike kuma's tele. so therefore a fair distant match, he will be rendered useless, as seen on how rayleigh cancels his 8 bounce skill. he can be touch and his light kicks arent as fast as light, though inheriting light's attribute he didn't gain it's all true nature. example, when he moves over a large area, he needs to bounce off through objects and when that line gets cutoff his movement will be cancelled. thats his biggest liability. he's not as fast as light, he just became a man with a body made of light and the ability to command and use light.

2nd kizaru's attack somewhat charge before it, maybe he gathers light around or he uses the light in his body or it's just for exclamation. though even for the last reason, he needs some time to use his skills like his sword made of light.

3rd aokiji is term as the marine most powerful fighter in the marines, one of the 3, including kizaru. but the most is aokiji as qouted by nico robin who obviously know most if not all admirals and all most anything and anybody who matters.

4th and im not sure about this, if aokiji's power doesnt limit with ice and has control over water then it's no discussion, he just need to bring kizaru in deep water and block every attempt to move of kizaru.

kizaru is dead meat, no chance at all ^_^
peace :D

[Razh]

Welcome to MH, but you're totally wrong.
Basically you were numbering Kizaru's weaknesses without mentioning the ones that Aokiji has. Including heat vulnerability. And what do you know, Kizaru can shoot lasers which can melt iron.
Sure, Kizaru moves in a straight line. But even with that, he's still faster than Aokiji. His kicks and punches are faster too.
We've seen Aokiji fight and we've seen Kizaru fight. So far, Kizaru was a lot more impressive.

Aokiji can't control water. He didn't eat water/ice fruit. He ate ice fruit.

[beastboy]

well if you saw fairy tail I think this is much like racer vs gray, and ice walls would be enough to stop kizaru in a long range, and a ice mirror would sent all the lasers back...
so aokiji would just try to mantain distance, that way he would win...
but just like crocodile said we never know how 2 abilities will match up......

[Razh]

range, and a ice mirror would sent all the lasers back...


Lasers would just melt the ice you know.

You really underestimate how complicated this battle would be. I swear, some of you make it look like a Pokemon game battle.

[warhead92100]

Welcome to MH, but you're totally wrong.

thanks :D

Basically you were numbering Kizaru's weaknesses without mentioning the ones that Aokiji has. Including heat vulnerability. And what do you know, Kizaru can shoot lasers which can melt iron.

i dont thnk light comes with heat and lasers are hot sure but its just concentrated light which can be redirected, reduced or change..


Sure, Kizaru moves in a straight line. But even with that, he's still faster than Aokiji. His kicks and punches are faster too.

yeah but as said his movement of long distance linear light path is proven to be stopable or atleast disable plus it takes some time to do that

We've seen Aokiji fight and we've seen Kizaru fight. So far, Kizaru was a lot more impressive.

i havent read the manga, but base on the anime... both admirals skills shown were at minimal, i am just quoting robin for saying that ao kiji is the most skilled among the 3 admirals.

Aokiji can't control water. He didn't eat water/ice fruit. He ate ice fruit.

well he doesn't need to control water just to survive in it or somewhat convert it to ice as he does will all things and move in it, we've seen him ride a bike in the middle of the ocean

what im supposing is that he wouldn't drown under water and still control ice






well if you saw fairy tail I think this is much like racer vs gray, and ice walls would be enough to stop kizaru in a long range, and a ice mirror would sent all the lasers back...
so aokiji would just try to mantain distance, that way he would win...
but just like crocodile said we never know how 2 abilities will match up......

if it's base on df powers and follow a scientific idea then ice would win but yeah, it will be based on the users skill and physical ability


Lasers would just melt the ice you know.

You really underestimate how complicated this battle would be. I swear, some of you make it look like a Pokemon game battle.

as said laser is also light, which can bounce back when reflected or can be change if it goes through a stimulus... sure it may strike with the speed of light but it might not even damage an entity which can easily manipulate light, on a scientific point of view if this match goes down to devil fruit powers ice have better chance of winning





:blink

[toxun]

One come to my mind, If somehow The Iced/frozen body of Kuzan melt, will he get any harm?

[Razh]

It's questionable whether Aokiji would be able to create a mirror that could deflect Kizaru's laser. And of course, he can't beat him with mirrors alone.

Aokiji is not the strongest.
There has been a thread about it here somewhere. Same words were used for both Aokiji and Kizaru in the character dialogue. None of the admirals is singled out as the strongest.

[Gecko Moria]

One come to my mind, If somehow The Iced/frozen body of Kuzan melt, will he get any harm?

Most likely. When ice melts it becomes water which is not in Aokiji's domain of power. Therefore, Aokiji will become vulnerable to normal attacks when his Devil Fruit powers are compromised i.e. melting. It's similar to how Crocodile loses his intangibility when saturated. But Aokiji would probably re-freeze the water into ice, thus recovering his intangibility.

[Black Lagoon]

Aokiji's powers are useless against Kirazu, and he's vulnerable to Kirazu's attack.
at least Aokiji will be exhausted and will have no strength to fight
IMO

[modoki]

There are a lot of factors on the table when considering a comparison like such. Kuzan, for example we havent seen get into a a serious 1 on 1 battle with. Borsalino on the other hand, we have and got a 10% idea.

Although both are incredibly powerfull, but as far as DF goes, Kizaru does have the upper hand. Common sense wise, combat and strategy are the winning solution. Kuzan looks more like to dominate based on physical combat and strategy.

Borsalino is what i call a admiral version of Sanji, mainly relying on the feet to execute attacks (Except the finger beam). Thinking wise he is slow, and caveman/nomadic like, hence the term monkey in his name.

Also consider this is a fight between two professionals that have been though hell and back to become well known with the Marines. You can bet a nickle a what if fight of such will take very long.

Getting to the point, i would think DF wise Borsalino no doubt is superior. However everything else I would have to hand it to Kuzan.

In the main fight Kuzan would have more of a upper hand.

Overall it would result in a tie.

[one piece master]

i think it would be a tie because kizarus too fast to be hit by one of aokijis attacks and ice can just reflect light so its a tie

[DARK]

Both Aokiji and Kizaru are Logia-types, meaning they cannot get hurt by each other's attacks. Their fighting styles are also dramatically different- one gradually freezes the opponent and the other kills at the speed of light.

[warhead92100]

One come to my mind, If somehow The Iced/frozen body of Kuzan melt, will he get any harm?

well as seen his body can be touch, thus making him vulnerable to physical attack, maybe to some extent or by having same strength as he does.


It's questionable whether Aokiji would be able to create a mirror that could deflect Kizaru's laser. And of course, he can't beat him with mirrors alone.

Aokiji is not the strongest.
There has been a thread about it here somewhere. Same words were used for both Aokiji and Kizaru in the character dialogue. None of the admirals is singled out as the strongest.

how do we create lasers? it's a purified light, meaning its derived from light and was guided by a lens. yes, he do commit those laser attacks at a pretty fast pace but you must consider that he can't track down or get even with kuma meaning there's a physical limitation to his speed, as he cant go that far with so much speed, he needs some sort of track points thus using his light bouncing pathway.

well, ao kiji being strongest is really debatable, it's just how robin puts it. but as he moves more freely on his own thus giving him more merit as being more powerful XP


Aokiji's powers are useless against Kirazu, and he's vulnerable to Kirazu's attack.
at least Aokiji will be exhausted and will have no strength to fight
IMO


Both Aokiji and Kizaru are Logia-types, meaning they cannot get hurt by each other's attacks. Their fighting styles are also dramatically different- one gradually freezes the opponent and the other kills at the speed of light.

both have never fought thus each logia's effect on each other is not yet proven or seen. but on a scientific point of view its the opposite of what your thinking.


i think it would be a tie because kizarus too fast to be hit by one of aokijis attacks and ice can just reflect light so its a tie

too fast i doubt, i think he will not catch up with kuma. with that point it is very possible that ao kiji will have a very same or even swifter move. plus kizaru cant move to much and is linear, at the moment as its shown.

[Dark God Zeus]

Akainu would obviously win, as I enjoy being different.

[Blanka]

neither could win necessarily, but i think the properties of ice and water, could be used to react the light. Light is energy not heat. Only with build up does it start to generate heat. I think Akoji could wrangle better, but it would end in a stale mate

[Franckie]

well, ao kiji being strongest is really debatable, it's just how robin puts it. but as he moves more freely on his own thus giving him more merit as being more powerful XP

Chapter 510 (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v52/c510/3.html) as well as another chapter I can't recall gives Kizaru the same hype Aokiji has word-per-word. Here's a quick sample involving the original Japanese text. Pay attention to the red markings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yami_serge/OP/6tehxv.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yami_serge/OP/OnePiece_ch510_pg03.jpg

Both pictures contains these kanji:
海軍 = navy (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt?doit=done&lp=ja_en&intl=1&ei=euc-jp&trtext=%B3%A4%B7%B3)
本部 = headquarters (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt?doit=done&lp=ja_en&intl=1&ei=euc-jp&trtext=%CB%DC%C9%F4)
最高 = the highest (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt?doit=done&lp=ja_en&intl=1&ei=euc-jp&trtext=%BA%C7%B9%E2)
戦力 = war potential (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt?doit=done&lp=ja_en&intl=1&ei=euc-jp&trtext=%C0%EF%CE%CF)
That can be interpretated as "the strongest man of the marine hq".

Aokiji indeed was described as the strongest, but he is not the only "strongest". He is just 1 of 3.

[one piece master]

I was wondering who the strongest admiral is. so know that we know what admiral akainu can do who do you think is the strongest.

Oh sorry I forgot Sengoku in the poll
Nah, probably better to leave Sengoku

Corrected the last name ;)

[kkck]

This is kinda hard.... Each admiral is an embodyment of an extremely powerful force of nature, which makes them all hax in many ways. There is also the thing about them having the capacity to hurt each other given their unique abilities. If they cannot hurt each other, then the fight is essentially an stamina competition and the one to get exhausted first loses... On the other hand, if they have the power to hurt each other then things are completely different. I guess we have to wait for a bit now...

[Sachsenhesse]

i go for akainu, he can evaporate all of aokijis attacks and maybe aokiji himself... the only would be kizaru, but a great magmapunch and kizaru is fucked

[RichardMNixon]

I'd go with Kizaru. They all seem equally dangerous, but Kizaru has a massive speed advantage.

[ofir271]

akainu got the adavantage against aokiji - magna is a wormer then ice is cold ... does it make sence?

Kizaru can win against akainu - i think his attacks will make the damage and he is faster as well.

aokiji can win against Kizaru by making a box of mirror like ice around him.

[BlackHair]

I will go with AoKiji since he is my favo and he was mentioned in the yellow datebooke as the strongest. And no it was not a translation mistake, according to my knowledge.


As to the Elements, its not freaking Pokemon. There is Haki as well! Though yes with superior elements u will have a advantage, but the battle cant be decided by just that.

[WhatWhatinthebutt]

I would say that Akainu is the strongest just 'cuz he seems like the backbone of the Marine Admirals and isn't sent out unless all havoc breaks lose....

[Zeltrax]

absolutely kizaru.
Light is a element that can be found
everywhere , afterall. :D

[Bo Ashi]

Kizaru seems to be the one with less weak points. All of the admirals are top level fighters as it is, and it's hard to compare their powers. But except Blackbeard with the Darkness Logia i can't think of any natural weakness for the Light fruit. Except mirrors though as mentioned before, but we have already seen that beat Foxy, so i doubt it will be the big key against him, storywise at least.

[RichardMNixon]

Mirrors aren't some kind of magical, invincible light reflector. A high-power focused laser will cut a hole through a mirror more or less just as well as it cuts through anything else. Ice reflects sunlight, yes, but the sunlight still melts the ice in the process.

Then there's the speed of light kicks... it's a little bit rigged.

[Lord Rayleigh]

It is a thread about the strongest admiral and Sengoku does not count in the poll : do not forget that the Admiral-in-chief is an Admiral too.
I really do not know what to answer because we cannot only rely on the DF powers. Besides, we have never seen the full extent of Ao Kiji, Ki Zaru and Aka Inu's fighting capacities. I hope we will see what worths Sengoku soon.
I hope we will learn more during this war.

PS : I think that Ki Zaru has the best DF power.

[Gecko Moria]

It is a thread about the strongest admiral and Sengoku does not count in the poll : do not forget that the Admiral-in-chief is an Admiral too.

The correct title is Admiral of the Fleet. IMO, it's probably better to leave Sengoku out of this thread as we have no idea how strong or weak he is and anything about Sengoku will basically be pure speculation.

Additionally, I voted for Kizaru. As all three admirals have similarly destructive powers and Logia intangibility, you have to look at it from a different angle than just power alone. For example, Kizaru seems to have the most experience out of the three admirals as we have seen Aokiji and Akainu were only relatively recently promoted from Vice-Admiral after the Ohara incident. Furthermore, as many members have already described, Kizaru is by far the fastest of the three Admirals. Moving at the speed of light, he is way faster than magma or ice.

[bittman]

I would vote Kizaru...but I'm not sure whether Akainu is a logia or not. Though we can easily guess he is, we are so far without proof.

On the experience thing: funnily enough I would see Akainu as the oldest of the bunch. Not only that, but Kizaru's playful personality would probably lead to his downfall compared to Akainu's loyal-to-a-fault personality.

Unfortunately I'd rate Aokoji the weakest of the three, if Akainu is a logia, even though he's my favourite of the bunch, just on ability alone. Of all the fruits his seems to be the most tangible and thus the most possible to take down.

[Dark God Zeus]

We haven't seen enough from any of them yet to have a clear winner. We surely haven't seen the full extent of their ability to use their DF in battle, nonetheless special skills, haki, stamina, etc. I mean, all three of them are logia, so it'd pretty much be them throwing attacks at each other until one of them couldn't become their element anymore.

We know that Ice (or water in solid form), light, and lava (fire in liquid form) are "the elements that destroy", in shonen all of these are destructive forces of nature, and all of the admirals have shown great feats with their devil fruit.

I'd immedietly knock aokiji out of this. His ranged attacks seem fairly limited. He'd excel close range, except that kizaru is faster than him and akainu surely could become far too hot for aokiji to handle.

Kizaru dropped four supernova captains by playing around with them (albeit there was some unecessisary help from a pacifista). We've seen him able to have large scale attacks (when he decimated the mangrove), fight melee, and fight with ranged attacks. He also seems to have more experience than the other two, but this isn't for certain. And as many others have said he has speed on his side.

We've seen but one move from akainu. He was the first one to destroy a pirate ship in Whitebeard's fleet, and he evaporated an iceberg that was larger than giants. HIs attack also caused a "rain of fire" that may or may not have affected allies.

[kkck]

Normally I would think kizaru is the strongest given that he is light.... He has insane speed and showed extraordinary(and involuntary) destructive power. Seeing him actually try should be quite scary IMO.

Now, given what little we have seen I would think akainu is the strongest. We saw the offensive of the three admirals against WB and out of the 3 the only one to actually reach the position WB had was akainu. That should mean something IMO. Not to mention akainu was the last admiral to be introduced....

[Yans86]

Aokiji is the strongest!did u see how he Ice Age the bay,the tsunami,and all around it while in midair?!!!we always tought that he need to touch water but it isn't....
Before Akainu dare touch him,he would turn his magma into stone.....magma solidific really fast....

Aokiji can freeze miles of sea for a whole week,like it is nothing...

And did u see how huge was that piece of Iceberg people were impressed for?Just imagine the power to freeze 10k...times the same amount of water at ease.....and I'd like to know what can he do with clouds and rain....

I can't predict an outcome against Kizaru,but seeing him against Marco is not giving me such a great impression....
And let's not talk about the SN,causebesides Kizaru,we r seeing plenty of characters that could rape them in 3 split seconds.....

Anyway,I still believe that Garp is strongest then all of them......these guys can't touch WB while Garp cornered Roger and probably WB too sometimes...

[DARK]

I would believe it to be Kizaru.

Akainu has magma abilities which can melt Aokiji's ice, but light is stronger than both magma and ice combined.
It's still too early to really decide this, considering we have just only witnessed Akainu's DF power last chapter. He only used one attack and some people are still contemplating whether his power is Paramecia or Logia (I believe Logia).

[Tobi92]

i think kizaru's fruit is more powerful than the other

[luffy_boy]

I vote for Kizaru.... my favourite.... but we still can not say who is the strongest as none of them have shown all the tricks in their sleeves.


Normally I would think kizaru is the strongest given that he is light.... He has insane speed and showed extraordinary(and involuntary) destructive power. Seeing him actually try should be quite scary IMO.

Now, given what little we have seen I would think akainu is the strongest. We saw the offensive of the three admirals against WB and out of the 3 the only one to actually reach the position WB had was akainu. That should mean something IMO. Not to mention akainu was the last admiral to be introduced....

I don`t think you can take this as a measurepoint, as we don`t know how strong the used attack is compared to their other attacks they haven`t used untill now. If these where their strongest attacks then you could be right.

[Mr.Aaron]

Kizaru has a completely overpowered DF, so I say Kizaru.

Aokiji is my favorite character, though. :/

[tothx]

Aikanu and Kizaru are both in the position where them getting defeated is a possible outcome. It's not impossible one will fall in the duration of this arc.

Aokiji though, I believe he is beeing saved up to be defeated by Luffy himself. While this says little about strength i dont really believe you can rank these guys at all anyhow. Theyre the top 3 (top 4 counting sengoku) and are all EQUAL. They are in the position where each of them is so strong that none of them can be confident in defeating the others yet they all are.

[DARK]

Kizaru has a completely overpowered DF, so I say Kizaru.

Aokiji is my favorite character, though. :/

Out of the admirals, I'd say my favorite is Akainu solely because he isn't fooling around. I'm not trying to be biased though but Kizaru has a broken DF. We really had not seen the other Admirals in action. So right now, I'll say that Kizaru would win. If Akainu is able to take down 4 pirate captains, maybe I'll contemplate.

[Kuranzyan]

I'd say Kizaru and Akainu are more or less on par... Both of them would obliterate Aokiji. I'm not belittling Aokiji but his DF abilities have serious flaws against those two... Anything he throws against Akainu is immediately vaporized, and everything he can throw against Kizaru is blown to smithereens by his "laser" techniques.

I'd say Kizaru wins against Akainu, but barely. Barely, ye hear?

[LDSaint]

well like sum ppl have sad before we really havnt been shown enough to actually decide a clear winner but id have to say Ao kiji for a few reasons he can counter in a way both of the other 2 admirals DF powers in 1 way or another
Kizaru light might be able to be reflected from Ao kiji's ice and therefore be used against him in some way or just not affect Ao kiji and then Ao kiji can just freeze his arse (not likely) or just keep rebounding him
and for akainu he could possibly just turn his magma into molten rock which would sorta cancel out both of there attacks but at least it would stop it and its true that akainu can just melt the ice but by what ive seen (sometimes depending on the location) Ao kiji can make heaps of ice a lot more quicker then Akainu can make molten

however if kizaru and akainu fought there fruits cant in anyway affect each other thats 1 of the reasons why i believe Ao kiji is the stronger

and he is my fav character :p

[Darkever]

Because of his incredible movement speed, I think Kizaru would be the strongest one. Unless they fight on the sea, in which case Aokiji is the one who prevails.

[Black Lagoon]

With Haki, Akainu should be able to pwn the other 2
Ice and light would be useless -_-;

[frontaLobotomy]

Personally, I'd rank the Admirals in terms of strength going by; Kizaru, Aokigi and Akainu. In reality they're bound to be as strong as one another and it would be down to actual fighting ability over the use of Logia.

[kkck]

Given all I am inclined to believe the top admiral is akainu followed very closely by kizaru. Sorry but aokiji but he would be the lesser of the lot. It is possible aokiji's and akainu's fruit would be mutual enemies of the other though. Cold would make kizaru into rock hence solid and magma would melt ice. I don't see how kizaru would be particularly affected by either of the others power but his power in turn does not seem to have a particular effect on the others. Somehow the idea of burning or freezing light does not click.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I think the top Admiral is either Kizaru or Akainu. I'm incline to go with Kizaru, but that's because we have seen more from him.

[ZenoArmani]

We know that Ace can generate about as much heat as Aokiji can displace, and Akainu can apparently generate greater heat than Ace (enough to burn him through). We also know that Kizaru seemed a bit stronger than Marco, and in the last few chapters Marco vaguely seemed like a good match for Akainu, but that's much more vague.

Anyway, I'd say that Akainu has the most wide-scale destructive ability when fighting many enemies, but Kizaru, in addition to his laser blasts, and immunity to damage, is probably the swifteest character in the One Piece world, and can deliver some of the hardest kicks, so he has an advantage in single combat. Neither of them can really hurt the other without haki though, and I'm not sure if we've seen either use that?

[braindamage351]

Realistically speaking, either Akainu is the strongest or they're all equal.

[THM Nindo]

One thing is for sure : Aikanu is stronger than Aikoji.
As for Kizaru... it's hard to tell how it would go against the others...

I think that, story-wise, Aikanu will be the stronger, because he will be a more important enemy seeing how he's the only one of the 3 to be shown to be really the Strawhat enemies (he's responsible for the Ohara incident, and he killed Ace).

[goldb]

I agree, my money is either on Akainu or Kizaru, we know logically Akainu would own Aokiji in a fight, but Kizaru is still a bit of an unknown quantity, we haven't seen much from him during this war...I'd go with Akainu nonetheless...

[Gcat88]

Eventhough Akainu was the last one to be introduced, i dont think he is the strongest. Its a balance; like rock paper scissor. One can defeat the other. i think its amazing that Sengoku is stronger, according to his position he has to be, than any of them.

[Franckie]

Eventhough Akainu was the last one to be introduced, i dont think he is the strongest. Its a balance; like rock paper scissor. One can defeat the other. i think its amazing that Sengoku is stronger, according to his position he has to be, than any of them.

The Admirals are stated to be the strongest in the Marines.

[Gcat88]

So the admirals are stronger than their commanding officer???

[bittman]

No, there is no comparison for battle prowess between Sengoku and the admirals. The admirals being stated as the strongest in the marines is true, but Sengoku is a fleet admiral and was also once an admiral, meaning that he has also held the distinction of being known as the strongest of the marines.

Whether Sengoku is stronger or weaker than the admirals remains to be seen. We've seen a little of all four's power, but I could still not really rank them. Akainu would seem the obvious winner, but it's only partly because we've seen so much of him in this war, especially compared to everyone else.

Remember, rank is not everything. Garp has always been hinted as stronger than admirals, though Sengoku believes he's able to keep him in check. Both Aokoji and Saul were vice admirals, yet the difference in battle power was enormous 20 years ago on Ohara. Smoker is only a commander, yet he often mentions that people far weaker than him are above him in rank.

Anyway, I've got a feeling either Akainu or Aokoji will be the strongest marines of the bunch, but since it could be very likely Sengoku stays at MHQ (what remains of it anyway), we may never really get a chance to compare the Fleet admiral to the three admirals again (except perhaps in flashbacks, or unless he ends up sending himself to the New World?)

[SharpKnives]

Aokiji. He showed more than I had hoped in this war. His speed is impressive and the rang of attacks are to. If jozu was a logia than it's fact that he can freeze the hell out of anyone(besides WB:P). He also seems to be favored by Oda.

[Franckie]

So the admirals are stronger than their commanding officer???

Yes, similar to how Spandam commanded CP9, yet was the weakest member.


No, there is no comparison for battle prowess between Sengoku and the admirals. The admirals being stated as the strongest in the marines is true, but Sengoku is a fleet admiral and was also once an admiral, meaning that he has also held the distinction of being known as the strongest of the marines.

Whether Sengoku is stronger or weaker than the admirals remains to be seen. We've seen a little of all four's power, but I could still not really rank them. Akainu would seem the obvious winner, but it's only partly because we've seen so much of him in this war, especially compared to everyone else.

Remember, rank is not everything. Garp has always been hinted as stronger than admirals, though Sengoku believes he's able to keep him in check. Both Aokoji and Saul were vice admirals, yet the difference in battle power was enormous 20 years ago on Ohara. Smoker is only a commander, yet he often mentions that people far weaker than him are above him in rank.

Anyway, I've got a feeling either Akainu or Aokoji will be the strongest marines of the bunch, but since it could be very likely Sengoku stays at MHQ (what remains of it anyway), we may never really get a chance to compare the Fleet admiral to the three admirals again (except perhaps in flashbacks, or unless he ends up sending himself to the New World?)

Sengoku and Garp are not as strong as they were 20+ years ago.

[RichardMNixon]

Aokiji. He showed more than I had hoped in this war. His speed is impressive and the rang of attacks are to. If jozu was a logia than it's fact that he can freeze the hell out of anyone(besides WB:P). He also seems to be favored by Oda.

Jozu has never been implied to be a logia.

A priori I think Kizaru has the best DF, but moving at the speed of light in One Piece is apparently not all Einstein cracked it up to be. Based on the war I think Akainu is pretty clearly the strongest with Kizaru and Aokiji roughly even. They both have a pretty strong tactical advantage however with being able to rapidly travel anywhere on the battlefield, and stopping the movement of ships respectively.

[goldb]

I think bittman pretty much phrased it right, but yeah Garp and Sengoku are not at the strength they were at 20 years ago, in saying that we don't know how their previous "full strength" would compare to that of the current Admirals. If it is more then, they would pretty much all be at the same level, if it's less then the Admirals are stronger.

But it's true, we haven't seen much of anyone to really draw comparisons...

[Gcat88]

Okay i am sorry but if after this chapter you still think SenGoku might be weaker than any of the three Admirals i would be shocked. You got me though; because there is a commanding officer doesnt mean he is more powerful. Between the three though i still think its rock paper scissors.

[Poneglyph420]

It's pretty clear Akainu is being played up as the toughest of the Admirals..
But in reality it's really based on the conditions presented.
It's obvious that cleverness spews from all of them, so it would be a cunning attack that delivered a killing blow...
Again we still don't know the extent of any of their skills or abilities..

But just based on storytelling and Oda's timing, i'm going for Akainu..

and yes Sengoku and Garp are more bad ass than any of them, just they don't need to prove it.

[cua_raitei]

I think kizaru has the most advantages among 3 of them

[DEATHBOTT]

out of top marines i say sengoku>garp>akainu>kizaru>akoiji

[Wisshard]

Generally, I think the three Admirals are, more or less, on the same level of strength and have little differences in strength among each other. However, pitted against each other they bad and good match-ups. Such as Akainu vs. Aokiji, which is a bad match-up for Aokiji since the Red Dog was capable of vaporizing a huge iceberg in an instant. While Aokiji undoubtfully would last longer than that, I do not think he would win the battle against heat of that magnitude.

I do think Kizuro would win against Akainu though, with superior speed and Haki augumented light-speed kicks.

But in the end, there is (imo) no clear strongest among the Admirals, against Jozu Aokiji might be the strongest and against another foe Akainu might get the best results.

[Lord Rayleigh]

Kizaru's devil fruit is awesome :
- the best speed
- the greatest power of destruction
- his light body cannot be touched unlike other logia bodies
- light does not have any weakness whereas ice and magma obviously have (heat/salt melts ice and water solidifies magma)

Kizaru is also the only Admiral that was not injured in the war : the only time we saw him bleeding was when he fought Rayleigh.

[Fox666]

It's hard to think of an weakness for light, isn't it?

At least I can think that Jozu would have immunity to direct beams, yet explosions would be a problem.

[OunknownO]

Black beard anyone... darkness swallows the light. Black hole destroyes everything even the light itself

[LeKuaSimi]

Generally, I think the three Admirals are, more or less, on the same level of strength and have little differences in strength among each other. However, pitted against each other they bad and good match-ups. Such as Akainu vs. Aokiji, which is a bad match-up for Aokiji since the Red Dog was capable of vaporizing a huge iceberg in an instant. While Aokiji undoubtfully would last longer than that, I do not think he would win the battle against heat of that magnitude.

I do think Kizuro would win against Akainu though, with superior speed and Haki augumented light-speed kicks.

But in the end, there is (imo) no clear strongest among the Admirals, against Jozu Aokiji might be the strongest and against another foe Akainu might get the best results.

It is possible that Aokiji's ice based attacks would be of little use against Kizaru, since Ice is usually transparent and so Kizaru should be able to get out of any Ice attacks easily.. Of course, Aokiji might be able to refract/reflect (dunno bout reflect, haven't seen ice with my face on it. but this is one piece) Kizaru anywhere he wants :D

[Fox666]

Black beard anyone... darkness swallows the light. Black hole destroyes everything even the light itselfI meant non-DF weaknesses...

And Blackbeard is quite pointless, don't? It works the same for all DFs

[panasit]

I think three admirals are quite equal. Taking out Kizaru though, may be Akainu can beat Aokiji. I have nothing to base that on though.

I think Akainu's personality makes him a lot more dangerous than the other two. Kizaru is still qute laid back. He can take the head shot out of any of the supernova, yet he didn't. He could have also fire a laser at Ace's head instead of at the key, he also didn't.
Kizaru is extremely powerful but there is something about him. Most of us were lead to think that if Kuma didn't transport straw hat crew elsewhere, Kizaru would have killed them. I disagree. I think they could have survived. Especially knowing that all the other supernova survive capture, there's no reason Luffy's crew will be any different. But they definitely needed help from Rayleigh though. Zorro was really about to die.
My point is: Kizaru can be extremely deadly, but for some reason it looks like he chose not to be.

Akainu on the other hand play for keep. Plus, I think out of all the three admirals, I think Akainu is the only one who would kill fellow marines.

[monkey D luffy]

it depends on a lot of factors
aokiji and akainu can go either way. if aokiji uses enough ice he can pretty much extinguish the magma akainu has, also take into account that aokiji will just melt reform back in one piece, same goes the other way around, there is no distinct counter like luffy and enel. we all saw that ace and aokiji were equal and i doubt ace couldve one this fight. if aokiji really goes all out i think the can take akainu, akainu is jhust ruthless and aokiji isnt. kizaru is the same, he wont any distinct advantage over the other 2 admirals. i think they are all equal.

[LoS]

I really don't know why this is even in question, I can see how this topic will generate much discussion, but if you read the chapters close enough it clearly points toward Akainu as the dominant one among the three.

Others can post the pages/panels pointing toward this, I'm too lazy right now, but trust me they are there.

[BlackHair]

Imo Akainu was rather portrayed as the persistent one. The one who would do anything to archieve his goal. But not necessarily the strongest one. By just going with devil fruit advantage, I believe Kizaru would be the strongest.

Anyway, out of the Admirals I want AoKiji to be the strongest one. Even if he seems to have the disadvantage.


Sengoku and Garp are not as strong as they were 20+ years ago.Yet it doesn't say they are weaker than the current Admirals.

WB was also several times weaker than 20+ years ago. Yet he proofed his position in the rank list.

[Franckie]

Yet it doesn't say they are weaker than the current Admirals.

Yet it doesn't change the fact the Admirals have been stated to be stronger than them.


WB was also several times weaker than 20+ years ago. Yet he proofed his position in the rank list.

Yes, WB got weaker. So did Garp and Sengoku.

[undertoe]

Yet it doesn't change the fact the Admirals have been stated to be stronger than them.

When was this stated...?

[Franckie]

When was this stated...?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/303/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/03/

[Zatono]

When was this stated...?

Technically it was said when the admirals were stated to be the Marines strongest military force, but this has been disproven simply because we have proof that Garp purposely didn't want to be an admiral.

Garp is probably above the admirals, and since him and Sengoku are probably on par with each other, I'd say they're both above the admirals.

However, for just the admirals, I'd say that Kizaru is on top, just because the man can shoot lasers and travel at light speed for Christ's sake. If he can use haki, even just a little bit, he should be able to just kick the crap out of Akainu and Aokiji. Otherwise, it's just a 3 way tie.

[Franckie]

Technically it was said when the admirals were stated to be the Marines strongest military force, but this has been disproven simply because we have proof that Garp purposely didn't want to be an admiral.

Garp is probably above the admirals, and since him and Sengoku are probably on par with each other, I'd say they're both above the admirals.

Sengoku and Garp were top-tier 20+ years ago. They've gotten old since then and it's been commented (e.g. WB) that they're not as powerful as they use to be.

The 3 Admirals have greater feats than either Sengoku and/or Garp. Furthermore, both Sengoku and Garp currently lack the ability to harm Logias.

[Razh]

The 3 Admirals have greater feats than either Sengoku and/or Garp. Furthermore, both Sengoku and Garp currently lack the ability to harm Logias.

Those 2 sentences contain only guesses. Greater feats? How can you possibly know that? And how can you possibly know that both Sengoku and Garp lack the ability to harm Logias? If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.

We have no way of knowing id Admirals are indeed stronger. I think their abilities give them more destructive power, but I also believe that those 2 old dogs have tricks of their own to deal with the likes. We've seen admirals spamming their abilities in this last battle. Sengoku threw one punch and one ki blast thing and Garp threw one punch and took one punch deliberately.
I don't know what Oda is saving them for, but since he did, they are probably unimaginably strong. I wouldn't be too sure that they couldn't deal with admirals.

But since this is Admirals discussion, I'd say Aokiji seems to be the weakest, thanks to the fruit. Both of those guys can generate heat, which is really his only weakness. I'd say Kizaru is the most destructive. Sure Akainu can spam magma, but Kizaru's attacks are the fastest.

[ceasar]

Those 2 sentences contain only guesses. Greater feats? How can you possibly know that? And how can you possibly know that both Sengoku and Garp lack the ability to harm Logias? If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.

We have no way of knowing id Admirals are indeed stronger. I think their abilities give them more destructive power, but I also believe that those 2 old dogs have tricks of their own to deal with the likes. We've seen admirals spamming their abilities in this last battle. Sengoku threw one punch and one ki blast thing and Garp threw one punch and took one punch deliberately.
I don't know what Oda is saving them for, but since he did, they are probably unimaginably strong. I wouldn't be too sure that they couldn't deal with admirals.

But since this is Admirals discussion, I'd say Aokiji seems to be the weakest, thanks to the fruit. Both of those guys can generate heat, which is really his only weakness. I'd say Kizaru is the most destructive. Sure Akainu can spam magma, but Kizaru's attacks are the fastest.

The beauty of one piece and the admirals are that they are so well balanced they each have strengths and weaknesses and no one really overpowers the other. That is what makes one piece so great however just based on the usefulness of abilities kizaru probably has the best situation. This is because of the abilities he possess's from it.

[undertoe]

Those two quotes prove nothing... For one, they contradict each other, casting immediate doubt on their veracity. Second, they only represent the PERCEPTIONS of people in the One Piece world, not the actual status of the world.

[bittman]

But since this is Admirals discussion, I'd say Aokiji seems to be the weakest, thanks to the fruit. Both of those guys can generate heat, which is really his only weakness. I'd say Kizaru is the most destructive. Sure Akainu can spam magma, but Kizaru's attacks are the fastest.

Seen a few comments like this, and not sure exactly what you're referring to because to me, this is how I rate the powers of the three admirals:

Akainu - High scale destruction, but probably neither agile nor defensive
Kizaru - High speed and precision attacks, but not overly destructive or defensive
Aokoji - High defensive capabilities and ability to capture enemies alive, but not a heap of attack power or speed

So sure, I've seen Kizaru fire a laser and it exploded into a mangrove and the mangrove fell over. But 95% of Kizaru's attacks have been either preicision kicks or piercing beams plus a whole heap of dodging. Akainu on the other hand, in the smallest attack we've probably seen him use, blew off half of Whitebeards face and, I feel, was shown as the most destructive as Sengoku relied upon him to wipe out the WB pirates when they were trapped.

So if this was some sort of RPG with stats, the winners would read something like:
Attack - Akainu
Defence - Aokoji
Speed - Kizaru

[Razh]

Maybe I should have articulated it better. I only said that Kizaru is the most destructive because he can deal damage the fastest. I agree that Oda didn't do him much justice in Marineford, compared to what we've seen on Shabondy. Maybe shooting the big lasers could have killed his own men or damaged the island itself. From lasers of that scale, his attacks get reduced to rain of light and stuff like that.
But anyway, from what I've seen all together, nothing from any of the admirals beats that kicksplosion we've seen on Shabondy. It's kinda lame that he used it against 2 nobodies while using finger lasers against real opponents. Guess he wanted to capture bounty heads or something.

[Ashura_Ichibugin]

Akainu is probably the strongest of them. It is neither because of his df, nor because of his physical abilities; it is because of his mentality.

And there is a thread named "The Strongest Marine" in tree of knowledge, if you want to discuss whether Garp and Sengoku can mop the floor with the admirals.

[Franckie]

Those 2 sentences contain only guesses. Greater feats? How can you possibly know that? And how can you possibly know that both Sengoku and Garp lack the ability to harm Logias? If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.

Contain guesses? I'm not the one speculating whether or not Sengoku and Garp currently possess the means to harm Logias. Neither have been shown to possess Haki or carry kairouseki on them at all times as Smoker does. Until Oda confirms that either party can harm Logias, they can't do it. Otherwise I assume that the 3 Admirals can nullify anything Garp/Sengoku can do. If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.


We have no way of knowing id Admirals are indeed stronger. I think their abilities give them more destructive power, but I also believe that those 2 old dogs have tricks of their own to deal with the likes. We've seen admirals spamming their abilities in this last battle. Sengoku threw one punch and one ki blast thing and Garp threw one punch and took one punch deliberately.

Again, with dicussion involving proven facts:

Fact: The Admirals are in their prime, Sengoku and Garp are not.
Fact: The Admirals have been stated to be the strongest.
Fact: The Admirals have been shown to possess destructive power outclassing anything that Sengoku or Garp have shown.
Fact: The Admirals possess Logia intagiblity that neither Garp or Sengoku have been confirmed to be able to bypass.
Fact: The Admirals were the focus of MHQ during the previous arc while Garp and Sengoku were on the sidelines.

The Admirals are stronger than current Garp and Sengoku. They might be able to do something if we're discussing Garp or Sengoku at their prime, but that's irrevelent since it's their current strength that matters.


I don't know what Oda is saving them for, but since he did, they are probably unimaginably strong. I wouldn't be too sure that they couldn't deal with admirals.

Oda also saved Momonga and Tsuru around too. Therefore, they should be able to deal with the Admirals. 100% proved.

[kisame123]

Contain guesses? I'm not the one speculating whether or not Sengoku and Garp currently possess the means to harm Logias. Neither have been shown to possess Haki or kairouseki on them at all times as Smoker does. Until Oda confirms that either party can harm Logias, they can't do it. Otherwise I assume that the 3 Admirals can nullify anything Garp/Sengoku can do. If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.
there was one case shown where Garp was able to inflict physical pain on Luffy here (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/128/17) and he has recognized Luffy's haki abilities. If I'm not mistaken, Luffy has only made direct statements about him feeling pain when being hit by haki users. I think that it is safe to assume now that Garp can use haki. after all, he was able to fight toe-to-toe with Roger, who's right-hand man, Rayleigh, is one of the best haki users we've seen so far. however, I agree with everything else you said, Garp is just too old to be in the same league anymore. he may be close and probably the next one in line after the admirals, but age is an important factor.
-----
anyways, Akainu has demonstrated the most power out of the three so far. I think there is a reason why his abilities were shown last, it's because of him being the strongest. I'm not a fan of the admirals, but Akainu wields massive power. however, I think Garp in his youth was perhaps stronger simply because he is a haki user and was able to fight with Roger. Haki users are usually in a class above the logia type and seeing how Whitebeard pummeled Akainu, I just don't see him being that kind of "upper tier" kind of fighter like the Yonkou have shown to be.

[Ashura_Ichibugin]

Contain guesses? I'm not the one speculating whether or not Sengoku and Garp currently possess the means to harm Logias. Neither have been shown to possess Haki or carry kairouseki on them at all times as Smoker does. Until Oda confirms that either party can harm Logias, they can't do it. Otherwise I assume that the 3 Admirals can nullify anything Garp/Sengoku can do. If you're gonna discuss, at least discuss using proven facts.



Again, with dicussion involving proven facts:

Fact: The Admirals are in their prime, Sengoku and Garp are not.
Fact: The Admirals have been stated to be the strongest.
Fact: The Admirals have been shown to possess destructive power outclassing anything that Sengoku or Garp have shown.
Fact: The Admirals possess Logia intagiblity that neither Garp or Sengoku have been confirmed to be able to bypass.
Fact: The Admirals were the focus of MHQ during the previous arc while Garp and Sengoku were on the sidelines.

The Admirals are stronger than current Garp and Sengoku. They might be able to do something if we're discussing Garp or Sengoku at their prime, but that's irrevelent since it's their current strength that matters.



Oda also saved Momonga and Tsuru around too. Therefore, they should be able to deal with the Admirals. 100% proved.

1) It is not until Oda confirms that either party can harm Logias, they can't do it; it is until Oda says something about it, we cannot make certain statements like you do.

2) I would like to see where it is stated that Sengoku and Garp are not in their primes, AFAIK they do not suffer from any diseases and being old does not necessarily mean they are not as strong as before.

3) Yes, Admirals are stated to be the strongest. But this is not especially said for current Admirals, it means someone with the rank of admiral is the strongest. Do not forget Sengoku was an admiral before being promoted and Garp was offered promotion many times.

4) The Admirals have been shown to possess destructive power outclassing anything that Sengoku or Garp have shown; because Sengoku and Garp did not fight properly, not because they tried to fight and failed. By the way, Sengoku made whole Blackbeard crew (possibly except San Juan Wolf) spit blood with a single move and Garp punched Marco, who can hold himself against Akainu and Kizaru, way back with a single punch.

5) It is implied that Garp has Haki.

6) Garp and Sengoku were not on the sidelines, they were the last line of defence. Anyone with a shred of tactical knowledge knows that the last line of defence is the strongest.

[BlackHair]

Yet it doesn't change the fact the Admirals have been stated to be stronger than them.As far as I know the rank Admiral was said to be the greatest fighting force of MHQ. Not specifically Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu. Sengoku who was a Admiral himself and Garp who declined that rank shouldn't be outruled by that statement.


Sengoku and Garp were top-tier 20+ years ago. They've gotten old since then and it's been commented (e.g. WB) that they're not as powerful as they use to be. Again that doesn't automatically say they are weaker than the current Admirals.

My reference would be WB. He was shown to be stronger than the current Admirals, even though he is way beyond his prime. Means that WB was in his prime almost godlike. Just cause the Admirals are now in their prime, doesn't make them stronger than the older guys.

A bold example in Dragonball scale: Garp prime 100, Garp now 80 || Current Admirals 75, in 22+ years 60


The 3 Admirals have greater feats than either Sengoku and/or Garp.Garp was said to have equal dead fights with Roger, who was said to been the true equal of WB. That is to me a much greater feat than any of the Admirals has shown us.


Furthermore, both Sengoku and Garp currently lack the ability to harm Logias.This is obviously wrong. I don't know about Sengoku but Garp already proofed that he can bypass devil fruit intangibly. Garp vs Rubber (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/), again. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/) This is not like Nami's comedy punches, since it was commented that Luffy got hurt even though he is rubber.

Also seriously Haki is not a big deal. Sengoku who is now a Admiral in Chief (former Admiral) should by any means be able to control haki. But to be fair, it is still not clear that he can bypass df intangibility.



Also the small debate about "facts" or "guessing", tbh we are ALL guessing here. Until Oda let them fight each other. Or if a infobox is used.

[Razh]

Oda also saved Momonga and Tsuru around too. Therefore, they should be able to deal with the Admirals. 100% proved.

That would be a valid argument if they were as important as Sengoku and Garp. They are not. I don't need to explain it to you because I'm sure you know that yourself.
Maybe if Tsuru was a Fleet Admiral 2 and Momonga was a Hero of the Marines 2.

And yes, most of the things you have written is true. However, I can't turn a blind side and say something like - "until it's shown, it doesn't exist", because Oda hints stuff through his story, and then there are some Shonen laws and guidelines to consider.

[Franckie]

1) It is not until Oda confirms that either party can harm Logias, they can't do it; it is until Oda says something about it, we cannot make certain statements like you do.

2) I would like to see where it is stated that Sengoku and Garp are not in their primes, AFAIK they do not suffer from any diseases and being old does not necessarily mean they are not as strong as before.

3) Yes, Admirals are stated to be the strongest. But this is not especially said for current Admirals, it means someone with the rank of admiral is the strongest. Do not forget Sengoku was an admiral before being promoted and Garp was offered promotion many times.

4) The Admirals have been shown to possess destructive power outclassing anything that Sengoku or Garp have shown; because Sengoku and Garp did not fight properly, not because they tried to fight and failed. By the way, Sengoku made whole Blackbeard crew (possibly except San Juan Wolf) spit blood with a single move and Garp punched Marco, who can hold himself against Akainu and Kizaru, way back with a single punch.

5) It is implied that Garp has Haki.

6) Garp and Sengoku were not on the sidelines, they were the last line of defence. Anyone with a shred of tactical knowledge knows that the last line of defence is the strongest.

1) Ok. In that case there are no facts in the One Piece manga. There are only things we've been told and shown.

For example: Moria isn't really the weakest Shichibukai. We've only been told he is.

I trust you see how pointless discussion is under such circumstances.

2) I would like to see where it is stated that Garp and Sengoku are in their prime. AFAIK, getting older weakens as evidenced by Garp (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/568/02-03/), Whitebeard (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/563/11/), Crocus (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/104/02/), and Rayleigh (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/513/11/). The only exception to this trend is Brooke because of his very unique set of circumstances.

3) Sengoku has never been described as above the Admirals in fighting power. They have, on the other hand, been described as above him. What he used to be is irrevelent.

4) During the past arc, Sengoku and Garp hardly did anything during the war because Oda spent a lot more time and effort showcasing the 3 Admirals. What do you think that implies?

5) When was Garp confirmed to have Haki again?

6) The Admirals were the ones actually on the frontlines attempting to prevent Whitebeard and company from infiltrating Marineford as much as possible. Anyone with a shred of tactical knowledge knows the importance of defending the high ground which was tasked with the Admirals.


As far as I know the rank Admiral was said to be the greatest fighting force of MHQ. Not specifically Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu. Sengoku who was a Admiral himself and Garp who declined that rank shouldn't be outruled by that statement.

Greatest attack force is just the literal translation. Strongest is a perfectly acceptable one, which was used in the case for Aokiji in chapter 303 (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter303.txt). And another adjective was used about Aokiji in the databook anyway, one that translates to strongest.


Again that doesn't automatically say they are weaker than the current Admirals.

My reference would be WB. He was shown to be stronger than the current Admirals, even though he is way beyond his prime. Means that WB was in his prime almost godlike. Just cause the Admirals are now in their prime, doesn't make them stronger than the older guys.

A bold example in Dragonball scale: Garp prime 100, Garp now 80 || Current Admirals 75, in 22+ years 60

But the fact remains that the 3 Admirals have been stated to be the strongest persons in Marines. Furthermore, Garp hasn't showcased the firepower the Admirals have displayed.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that current WB is clearly stronger than any of the 3 Admirals. Even when WB jumped Akainu and delivered two critical hits on him, WB still failed to inflict any fatal damage on him. Akainu would later on proceed to wipe the floor with people such as Ivankov (who held his own against Kuma) and Jinbei.


Garp was said to have equal dead fights with Roger, who was said to been the true equal of WB. That is to me a much greater feat than any of the Admirals has shown us.

Garp never fought Roger to a draw. The only person who ever could was Whitebeard, and he's dead now. Prime Garp also had to tagteam with Sengoku in order to take down Shiki, a pirate in the same league as Roger, yet confirmed to be weaker than him.


This is obviously wrong. I don't know about Sengoku but Garp already proofed that he can bypass devil fruit intangibly. Garp vs Rubber (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/), again. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/) This is not like Nami's comedy punches, since it was commented that Luffy got hurt even though he is rubber.

Garp's lumps (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/06/) vs Nami's lumps (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/07/). Both are nearly identical and that's not factoring in Garp's nonsensical response as to why he can harm Luffy. Most of the Luffy-Garp interactions that took place are comedy-based.


Also seriously Haki is not a big deal. Sengoku who is now a Admiral in Chief (former Admiral) should by any means be able to control haki. But to be fair, it is still not clear that he can bypass df intangibility.

Also the small debate about "facts" or "guessing", tbh we are ALL guessing here. Until Oda let them fight each other. Or if a infobox is used.

Haki is very rare in the OPverse. Out of the Shichibukai, only Hancock has been confirmed to have it. Out of MHQ, I think only one character has been confirmed to have it. Out of the Whitebeard Pirates, only Whitebeard, Vista, Jozu, and Marco have been confirmed to have Haki. Out of all the high-tier fighters that exist in these 3 groups alone, you have about 5 confirmed Haki users within a group containing at least 25 high-tier fighers (Whitebeard + WB's 14 Captains + the 3 Admirals + Sengoku + Garp + 8 Shichibukai + etc.). That's a percentage no greater than 20%.


That would be a valid argument if they were as important as Sengoku and Garp. They are not. I don't need to explain it to you because I'm sure you know that yourself.
Maybe if Tsuru was a Fleet Admiral 2 and Momonga was a Hero of the Marines 2.

And your saying your reasoning is far from flawless? Jinbei too was saved by Oda and we know he's strong. Yet Jinbei is weaker than any of the Admirals. The same holds true for other characters such as Buggy, Crocodile, and Marco.

Sengoku being the Fleet Admiral and Garp being the "Hero of the Marines" doesn't equate to them being the most important marines. The most important marines are the 3 Admirals, specifically Akainu. I don't need to explain it to you because I'm sure you know that yourself.


And yes, most of the things you have written is true. However, I can't turn a blind side and say something like - "until it's shown, it doesn't exist", because Oda hints stuff through his story, and then there are some Shonen laws and guidelines to consider.

What do "shounen laws and guidelines" have to do with the battledome?

[Omnion_1990]

to the person who said this:


Garp never fought Roger to a draw. The only person who ever could was Whitebeard, and he's dead now. Prime Garp also had to tagteam with Sengoku in order to take down Shiki, a pirate in the same league as Roger, yet confirmed to be weaker than him.

He fought roger enough to almost kill him, even roger said so himself. And you said Garp tag teamed with sengoku to take down shiki, thats why shiki got f*cked up royally and garp didnt have a scratch on him.

Im pretty sure garp himself could have mullered shiki, its just that because it was marineford sengoku got involved to stop there being even more damage. Also we didnt see the fight.

Imo even though i still think garp is one of the strongest characters in one piece we still havent seen him PROPERLY dish it out. and yes garp CAN bypass df abilities, he did with luffy and with marco:


http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/18-19/

and imo that was a LOVE PUNCH he gave marco, instead of the nuke warhead he was going to hit luffy with. a LOT of logia class df users cannot take punishment as they never get it due to being logia, im pretty sure garp could kill someone.

whats scary about garp is he was offered an admiral position and he DOESNT have a df ability. id say hes pretty damn strong. i think oda is saving an epic garp fight seeing as garp vs akainu was stopped.

Going on topic i think it goes as follows:

1. Sengoku
2. Garp
3. Akainu - Kizaru
4. Aokiji

Thing is i dont see lava being superior to light but aces fire matched with aokijis ice and akainus lava > aces fire so therefore akainu ability > aokiji ability.

I think sengokus body in his buddha form is inv to dfs - or he has resistance. in an all out slaughter fest garp would beat sengoku with sengoku not using his df. with his df i think his shockwaves would do it.

[BlackHair]

Greatest attack force is just the literal translation. Strongest is a perfectly acceptable one, which was used in the case for Aokiji in chapter 303 (http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter303.txt). And another adjective was used about Aokiji in the databook anyway, one that translates to strongest. I don't see how this disproves my earlier post. The term strongest is used for the rank "Admiral", not for AoKiji or any other individual. In that case Garp and Sengoku shouldn't be excluded.



Furthermore, Garp hasn't showcased the firepower the Admirals have displayed. I think it is pretty much clear that Oda is saving him for later. But you are right, he didn't show us anything. Neither his skills or trying and failing. Leaving Luffy vs Garp out.


You're going to have a hard time convincing me that current WB is clearly stronger than any of the 3 Admirals. I respect ur opinion, but likewise you can't convince me WB < Admiral. This is not the thread for this discussion, so I will leave it out.


Garp never fought Roger to a draw. It is hinted that Garp fought him evenly. Roger: "The two of us have killed each other many times. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/551/05/) I can't find a better conclusion than evenly.


Prime Garp also had to tagteam with Sengoku in order to take down Shiki, a pirate in the same league as Roger, yet confirmed to be weaker than him.Had to? No that's wrong. By Garp and Sengoku tag-teaming Shiki's loss was guaranteed. With that they won with less effort.

1) Same case with WG Alliance (MHQ + 7 Warlords) vs WB Alliance. The two forces of WG didn't had to fight together to beat the WB pirates. MHQ could have done the job on their own. It's just that by tag-teaming the success rate went up in their favour.

2) The Admirals didn't had to team up together (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/) to block one of WB's attack. It's just with three of them, they can do the job easier.




Garp's lumps (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/06/) vs Nami's lumps (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/07/). Both are nearly identical and that's not factoring in Garp's nonsensical response as to why he can harm Luffy. Most of the Luffy-Garp interactions that took place are comedy-based.
Almost every time Luffy's rubber intangibility was bypassed, there was a comment on that. Either from Luffy himself or of any other character.

BB vs Luffy - commented by Croco (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/06/)
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Sanji (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/)
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/)
Sento vs Luffy - commented by Chopper (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/14/)
Boa Sister vs Luffy - commented by Luffy (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/09/)
etc

You will have hard time finding comments of bypassing on Nami's hits. Sure as Garp punched Luffy in W7 his wound got big as Nami's, since the scene was for comedy purpose. But the damage of Garp's punch was real. Sanji's comment is proof of that. Without his comment, I would have agreed with you. Anyway, if you don't want to accept this, (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/431/18/) you will have to at least accept this (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/582/16/). On that page, there is no hint of comedy. Garp can use haki, that's proven fact by now. Sengoku can't use haki until said/displayed otherwise.


My argument: Garp should be around WB's equal level. Thus (slightly) stronger than the Admirals. Since none of the Admirals could have defeated WB in a fair 1vs1. Also he can use Haki to bypass intangibility. Anyway, enough off topic from me. Any further discussion will be posted by me in this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59944).

Within the Admirals, I believe Kizaru is the strongest.

[Wrath]

I think it's Aokiji, but that's purely a gut choice because there's no evidence one way or the other.

[RezzieThaRapper]

Aokoji...

Because I like him...

And I think he could use his ice like a mirror and reflect Kizaru's attacks (purely speculating)

And I think Magma wouldn't beat him, I think pure fire has a chance, but when it comes to magma, Aokoji can cool it down instantly and turn it to rock

[St Michael]

Exactly. It depends of how cold could be Ao Kiji powers.

Absolute Zero would cool down Aka Inu (and his lava) to a spicy ice cream.

And I don't really see lasers beating him. Of course , ice can't really beat lasers either.

The 3 of them are pretty strong against other opponent (maybe Kizaru and Aka Inu are stronger in those cases) but Ao Kiji has the best match-up of the 3 against another.

I got the feeling that my last sentence is kinda weird , but I hope it's understandable.

[BlackHair]

Well Magma was said to be even hotter than Fire and we saw how fast he reduced that giant ice block to nothing. So I don't think AoKiji could turn magma back to rock.

On a another note, I believe Akainu used haki to overpower Ace's fire.

[St Michael]

Are you sure that lava is said hotter than fire in the manga ?

It would be surprising.

I also think that Aka Inu used haki against Firefist there (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/14-15/).

But when he killed him , Ace was protecting Luffy. He probably willingly stop the fist with his chest anyway.

[BlackHair]

Well it wasn't said hotter, but Akainu did say that Magma burns even Fire. Panel 5 at the bottom. (http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/573/14-15/) I admit it sounds weird, that's why Im claiming that haki played a role there.

[St Michael]

Yeah , Aka Inu is an hell of a liar. That wouldnt be surprising that he claimed something like that to be true even if it's not.

Anyway , we never know how 2 abilities would match up (dixit Crocodile) , maybe ice can turn lava into rock.

[bittman]

I an Ace vs Aokoji thread the same comparison's and ideas were somewhat thrown around. I remember an interesting post (was a bit sciency though) that discussed the amount of energy displacement that each force had, and it rated Aokoji's ability to turn two tidal waves into ice in an instant as above Ace's miniature Sun, but even then Oda just basically had the two clash equally after freeing Ace.

It sort of depends how Oda plans to define the power of logias. Sure, they have their element and are able to turn it into all sorts of things from their imagination, but the only Logia we've seen so far able to control a "level" of his own power was Enel with his volt distribution...and even then everyone lived his 40k volts or whatever so I'm a bit unbelieving there.

Anyway, it will still come down to energy displacement. If Oda goes the super effective pokemon route, Akaiu will triumph over Aokoji easily. If Oda decides to have energy levels and science, it then depends on how far they can take their powers.

[hibar90]

Voted Kizaru. How can you defeat light? He can also make laser, which can be used to cut through ice. On the other hand, Aokiji has the only ability we've seen so far (apart from BB) that can beat Akainu's power by logic. The only way to stop magma is to freeze it or let it cool down, so it become a rock. But, can Aokiji pull it? He can freeze a tsunami instantly, so that gives a hint about his freezing power.