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Requiem 4 a Dream
September 05, 2009, 07:24 PM
Hi. These are my first few posts around here. To introduce myself, I am a tennis player and thus, a huge fan of pot. I really love the original series, especially during the district and prefecture competitions right to the point when Echizen fought Akutsu. I am an Echizen fan btw, don't throw rocks at me :amuse but I mean he being the main character and all...

In pot1, there were already plenty of inconsistencies around being that Konomi seems to be perpetually high on something.

So far in shin prince of tennis, Konomi have only shown us introductory/refresher facts on the middle schoolers, for instance Fuji Syuusuke beating Fuji Yuuta 7-0 without showing how fuji s achieved that as well as Atobe beating Hiyoshi without using world of ice, but the match's purpose was to impart life lessons and all that warm fuzzy stuff so it's ok too.

But I am worried that Konomi will revert to his erratic ways. For example, Fuji evolved his original triple counters (higuma otoshi-> kirin otoshi, hakugei->hakuryu etc) and invented 3 new counters during the nationals arc. Will Konomi simply revert Fuji back to using higuma otoshi, hakugei, tsubame gaeshi and acts as if said developments didn't happen? It certainly sounds like something he might do.

For Echizen's PoP especially, my guess is that he will either ignore the fact that Echizen has that skill in the beginning or simply give Echizen kerzillion limitations in calling it (I lost the joy in playing tennis, therefore I cant use it! I need to take a dump so I cant use it! etc).

Konomi had always depicted Echizen as defeating all his opponents with the narrowest of margins. Think how the Echizen that grew in that match against Akutsu could only defeat Hiyoshi by 6-4 after struggling. The Echizen that defeated Sanada (luck or not) could only beat Tanashi Kei 7-6! The anime was even more laughable, a US open participant who defeated Lleyton Hewitt struggled to beat Tanashi :D. In shin pot, I reckon it is even possible Konomi will make this Echizen, who has defeated Yukimura only beat Minami 7-4 or 7-5 or 8-6 w/e in the U-17 matches.

But think about it, 12 chapters have passed with Konomi simply providing introductory facts on the old characters with old skills as well as merely some vague black aura (wtf?) about Sanada. It sounds like Konomi has an extremely monumental task ahead of him to keep consistency.

By the way, I am in no way trolling. I really love the original series alot. Which is why I hope the shin pot won't kill off whatever pot created. Imagine if Echizen only beat Minami Kentarou 7-5 or 8-6 as I guessed earlier. I will definitely quit the series for sure :p So what do you guys think about the possible inconsistencies?

Sai_the_Shaman
September 05, 2009, 09:25 PM
Welcome to the forum.

So far, this new series has served to re-establish the power levels and the cast of characters. However, we also have a few new characters who seem to be incredibly strong as well. In this month, they've finally set up for the level of these players to be shown.

As for Ten'imuhou, I have no idea how we're going to deal with it just yet. However, Ryoma has been known to not always go all out against his opponents. Against Tanishi, it was well established that he was baiting Tanishi the entire time. Furthermore, the same holds true for him against Hiyoshi and probably all of his first matches against Kaidou, Inui and such. In that sense, Echizen is a lot like Atobe, he likes long drawn out matches and playing around with his opponent.

As for Fuji's triple counters, its already shown in the original series that he doesn't always use the evolved versions. In fact, against Niou, when he used all his counters in succession to set up Hoshi Hanabi, he only used his original triple counters and not the evolved ones. I think Fuji just uses the version of the triple counters that he thinks will suit the situation best.

As for how the story is going, I think after these matches finish up (probably in the next couple of months), we will finally be getting into the real story and such. So far, the seeds are set so that its almost guaranteed the losers will come back in some way (especially if Ryoma was forced to forfeit....which was left ambiguous). So after these matches I have a feeling we'll get the characters officially inducted into the U-17 uniforms and then have the series go into something of a world tour.

Atobe the king
September 06, 2009, 04:14 PM
Konomi had always depicted Echizen as defeating all his opponents with the narrowest of margins. Think how the Echizen that grew in that match against Akutsu could only defeat Hiyoshi by 6-4 after struggling. The Echizen that defeated Sanada (luck or not) could only beat Tanashi Kei 7-6! The anime was even more laughable, a US open participant who defeated Lleyton Hewitt struggled to beat Tanashi . In shin pot, I reckon it is even possible Konomi will make this Echizen, who has defeated Yukimura only beat Minami 7-4 or 7-5 or 8-6 w/e in the U-17 matches.

You're a tennis player you should know what tanking is haha..i think you've analyzed these matches wrong..and you should never take anime filler into account since PoT>>>>>Real tennis..Gin hit a 137 MPH FH that beats any existing shot speed (excluding service). You put too much emphasis on score line and ignored the score..

Robin Soderling lost a set to Nadal 6-0 but every game went to duece..that is a misleading score line

He usually doesn't win by the narrowest of Margins..he didn't have an actual tough match until Akutsu...

6-3, or 6-4 are comfortable scorelines indicating that there was one break of serve..because that's all you really need.

Lets look at them all

Shinji - Dominated shinji until he forced the FH and injured himself and then won the match Blind 6-3

yuuta - Screwed around trying to figure out the twist spin, once he'd bested it Yuuta was knocked out 6-3

Akutsu - His toughest match..a very tight 6-4

Hiyoshi - He schooled Hiyoshi..he played with his off hand for a good amount of the match and embarrassed him in the first game, he also had FAR more stamina than hiyoshi had it been a 5 setter he'd have been destroyed

Sanada - Echizen had to use an evolved muga and a super aggressive net game to win this match..his 2nd best in the series imo. 7-5

Tanishi - He didn't even use Muga, the opponent served out of a tree..and said he was going to hit a return winner about 3-3 or so in the match so he knew he'd win...the purpose of this match was to show how ryoma handles a big server...Tanishi could only serve..Ryoma was winning the baseline exchanges if you pay attention

Atobe - Tightest match of series, down 4-0 comes back to level it 4-4 and then that ridiculous tie break occurs and he had to give his all.

Yukimura? no need to explain that one

If he beat Minami 7-4 then it's because there is no need to go all out, why exert yourself too much? look what happened to Nadal for playing every point as if his life was on the line

Nice to see a Ryoma fan

Requiem 4 a Dream
September 07, 2009, 12:28 AM
Thanks Sai_The_Shaman.

Atobe, the points you made were very accurate and they make sense. But let me elaborate further on mine.

The problem is that Echizen wasn't tanking. Imo, he really struggled against the lesser players, namely Yuuta and Tanashi. He resorted on trickery to beat Tanashi. Thanks to your reminders, I now remembered that his wins over Shinji and Hiyoshi were clear domination but even then, the scoreline over Hiyoshi being 6-4 is odd despite the clear domination? Note that Konomi immediately depicted Jirou as having destroyed Yuuta 6-1 with his serve and volley style (twist spin shot or not) and that the serve Tanashi used to match Echizen step for step was actually a weaker version of Kite's making Kite some sort of number I can't derive times better than post-Sanada Echizen.

But anyway, I am not trying to point out that I must and have to read about Echizen beating every opponent 6-0. But I am merely ragging about the constant feeling of inconsistency I get from Konomi's story. Echizen is definitely the type of character that can be beating Yukimura in one arc but right after that story, struggle against Momo's dunk smash or ... Minami in this case. To put in a more specific way, I can see Yukimura and Sanada beating their opponents 6-0 constantly but not Echizen. Sai_The_Shaman pointed out about Echizen being like Atobe, clowning around with their opponents and all that. That's true for Atobe but he nevertheless destroyed Mizuki 6-0. I doubt that will be the case for Echizen. He will probably struggle against Mizuki's data tennis and narrowly win Mizuki by the de facto main character-luck 7-6 (1000-998) or something :eyeroll. That is irregardless of post-Yukimura match or not.

Atobe the king
September 07, 2009, 01:53 AM
It wasn't trickery to beat Tanishi..if he went Muga he would have destroyed him...rememebr tennis is a game of strategy..so baiting Tanishi into continously abusing his serve was a smart move..especially considering ryoma has never played a big server in the entire series. You have to understand that this serve was strong enough to push him against the wall when he tried to return it..probably only in the early 200 k/h since it's stated that Inui and Chotaru hold the tournament record...but it had a lot of power behind it.

All the other players have those scores as an intimidatio factor..for the reader..remember this is Siegaku's cinderella story.

Also echizen usually plays the ace of each team..Shinji is behind Tachibana in singles imo, Yuuta was their trump card, Akutsu was by far the best player in Yamabuki, Hiyoshi was a trump card, Sanada was the best middle schooler, Tanishi had the biggest serve next to Eishiro, Atobe is king of Hyotei and Yukimura was the best player in the series.

As Sai said..he does like to mess around...remember he played momo with his off hand, spent the match with Kaido trying to use the buggy whip, held back his split step against inui etc. The only matches where he was serious from the get go imo was against Akutsu, Sanada, Yukimura, and Atobe, hell he even planned to screw around with Kintaro

DavenSodan
September 08, 2009, 12:52 AM
But Echizen didnt used Muga against Atobe in the first game, so he kinda didnt go all out from the start. Ok, against Yuki he didnt do it, too, but he wanted to get his jacket of his shoulders so he had a plan.

I like the the theme of this topic. Why didnt Atobe forgot about his Tannhauser Serve till 4-4? Why didnt Niou used Phantom all the way down till 6-4? Why the hell is muga so hyped and it is said that only so few are capable of using it but doesnt do it like Kiriahara or Yukimura? Seriously if I were Yiuki and was leading 4-0 then falling 4-5 behind I would use EVERTHING I have even if Im used to think that Muga is useless. Remember Sanada used it at match point himself. I somehow think that Echizen wont use PoP and Konomi wont even tell us why. Like it never happend. What is the point in Echizen beating Kazuya 6-0?

Atobe the king
September 08, 2009, 06:33 AM
Interesting..but i think you can chock some of it up to realism...

Im pretty sure a serve with a bounce like Tannhauser has to take some shoulder strain..even serving normally does..some on like atobe he likes breaking people down probably knows a thing or two about his own body.

As for Kirihara? idk..he never did Muga at will..his evolution went into a different direction.

Yukimura? well he says it's a waste of energy..seeing as he could return everything without it..besides it's his theme to play with no gimmicks (you know outside the sense stealing lol)

As for PoP? probably wont see that till the end again..or perhaps like Nanjiroh..he's always in it to an extent.

javimgol
September 08, 2009, 05:23 PM
Interesting..but i think you can chock some of it up to realism...

Im pretty sure a serve with a bounce like Tannhauser has to take some shoulder strain..even serving normally does..some on like atobe he likes breaking people down probably knows a thing or two about his own body.

As for Kirihara? idk..he never did Muga at will..his evolution went into a different direction.

Yukimura? well he says it's a waste of energy..seeing as he could return everything without it..besides it's his theme to play with no gimmicks (you know outside the sense stealing lol)

As for PoP? probably wont see that till the end again..or perhaps like Nanjiroh..he's always in it to an extent.
I'm really expecting for a Kintaroh's PoP

And about inconsistencies, this is a shonen. It's bought in an 70% for japanese teens, so the mangaka isnĀ“t worry about the analysis of the big people like us that are the other 30% and didn't expend so much money with media, merchandise, etc (PoP is the only manga that has costed me several euros, and it was only because I wanted to improve his expansion in Spain buying the monthly toshokan).If you read other mangas, like Naruto and Bleach or even Dragon Ball,t his is very typical (maybe with the exception of OP or FMA)

Atobe the king
September 08, 2009, 06:53 PM
I resent that Javimgol XP..it's not like we're too old for this or something..there should never be an age limit on what you like to do

Fayte
September 08, 2009, 09:02 PM
If I can remind you all, Konomi never intended a sequel. Prince of Tennis was supposed to end after Yukimura. That is why PoP has a cheesy explanation and why you are not seeing PoP yet. The fact Konomi created a new series in itself with new players at a higher level is going to cause major problems. What would you do in Konomi's position? The series still needs some surprises.

My personal theory regarding Kazuya, I believe Echizen is going to get a 6-0 to the face. I just have a feeling Konomi is going with the anime encounter with Sanada when Echizen gets destroyed in an unofficial match, only to come back and win later on. I just have a feeling that situation will resurface with Kazuya, instead of Sanada.

Sherlock Holmes
September 08, 2009, 09:19 PM
If I can remind you all, Konomi never intended a sequel. Prince of Tennis was supposed to end after Yukimura. That is why PoP has a cheesy explanation and why you are not seeing PoP yet. The fact Konomi created a new series in itself with new players at a higher level is going to cause major problems. What would you do in Konomi's position? The series still needs some surprises.

My personal theory regarding Kazuya, I believe Echizen is going to get a 6-0 to the face. I just have a feeling Konomi is going with the anime encounter with Sanada when Echizen gets destroyed in an unofficial match, only to come back and win later on. I just have a feeling that situation will resurface with Kazuya, instead of Sanada.

If I were Konomi, I would turn Echizen into an antagonist. Easy. He was seen in America last time, right? Perfect setting to make him a member of the American team. And make a new protagonist, so we can see his evolving as he finally faces off against Echizen.

...But again, we are talking about Prince of Tennis. Echizen is too popular. He would be crucified if he did that.

Maybe Konomi is going to pull the classic "has a time-limit/puts too much stress on the body" card.

I don't think he is going to lose 6-0 though.

Atobe the king
September 08, 2009, 09:39 PM
Muga already has a time limit/puts stress on the body..Nanjiro never looks tired so i don't think it's that.

Requiem 4 a Dream
September 08, 2009, 09:44 PM
If I were Konomi, I would turn Echizen into an antagonist. Easy. He was seen in America last time, right? Perfect setting to make him a member of the American team. And make a new protagonist, so we can see his evolving as he finally faces off against Echizen.


Cool idea. Instead of a new protagonist, maybe adventures of Horio or something?

Atobe the king
September 08, 2009, 09:49 PM
Horio? don't joke like that. Ryoma as antagonist would be weird though...i mean personality wise he's already a cheeky bastard..but to do this you need a suitable protagonist, no one really fits the bill.

As Sherlock says, Koshimae is really popular, right behind Atobe and Fuji in the previous poll.