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View Full Version : Fantasy Shunsui Kyouraku vs. Barragan Luisenbarn



benelori
September 19, 2009, 12:49 PM
I see that barragan vs. anyone are pretty popular thread, have a few thoughts why..lol...That's why I'll try my luck and start a new thread with him...though people might have been bored already by similar topics concerning the King of Hollows. I wish however to pit him against a more enjoyable character and who's on great horses now...
I think respira is one of the most powerful abilities ever in bleach...aging things get wasted instantly...is barragan just arrogant, or can he actually produce some insight when he's in deep shit let's see like a wicked game from shunsui...can shunsui even get close to barragan?
Let's limit ourselves to Shunsui's shikai shall we, cuz about bankai we don't know much...
I'll try hard a think of a game to beat barragan, but if anyone comes up with something...well...knock URselves out:D

Note: even though Shunsui is an old captain and must be good with kido, let's not dive in this direction, becuz we didn't see actually use kido of anykind...thanx

Hachigeneral
September 20, 2009, 07:53 AM
Problem is he has to be in melee range to play and deal damage using the game and getting in Barragan's face means dealing with respira. Furthermore the game is dealing slashing attacks which arguably won't hurt Barragan since he has an aging aura and is all bones anyway, can't really make a skeleton bleed, though a strong slash or a blunt object may break them. Problem is how much force is left after your sword passes through his decaying aura? We don't know, nor do we know if the sword itself would decay quickly since everything that went near him dissolved before it hit him. Overall, I have no doubt Shunsui can evade Respiras with his speed since he dodges the #1s ceros and he can also knock them away with Koma Busho but the game wouldn't be useful here.

If we go on what was shown perhaps Shunsui can keep Koma Busho around his sword much like Ichigo keeps Getsuga Tensho around his. This would mean he has a tornado sword and surely it could deal some damage to Barragan while blowing away Respira. It may even distort his aging aura enough to get a good slash in. It would at least take his robe off right? ;)

kkck
September 20, 2009, 09:55 AM
It would depend on to what extent the rules of the games apply IMHO and how much both guys have to respect them. If the rules of the games are absolute while in play, then I could seriously see kyoraku winning this one. I also want to point out that if kyoraku says color black with that particular game barragan would take more than considerable damage. The shadow trick could allow kyoraku to deal damage even when not being close to barragan also. Should thr sword want bousho uma, I get the impression that would to some extent repel respira.

xXAshisogiJizoXx
September 20, 2009, 11:16 AM
@Hachigeneral
You bring up a very good point with the koma busho, and assuming respira is indeed a gas, or gas-like at least, then that should get through.

now if barragan weren't stupid, i'd have voted for him, as he does have more than just respira at his disposal, but as it is, he's way too arrogant, especially for a shikai that requires level-headed thinking. what's sad is that barragan pre-release actually had hints of analytical skills, like immediately finding the pillars. but like many arrancar, releasing makes him dumb.

poobert
September 20, 2009, 11:59 AM
I don't think that respira is the only trick barragan has. When unreleased, he had control of time around his body so that not even a super speedy kick landed. When released, he began to age everything around him without using a technique.

There is no reason to assume that when released he looses the ability to slow things around his person. Just like he stopped a kick, he can stop a sword blade.

None of shunsui's games will matter if his sword can't land a hit. The only useful thing it could do is to get him close to barragan without ageing (through his shadow). Then if he had a super powerful attack or kido or bankai to use, he might get somewhere.

Unfortunately we have not seen him use anything that might help. Maybe we will later, but right now I say he looses.

Mifune_Taichou
September 20, 2009, 06:17 PM
I voted for shunsui to win in shikai just cos I really hate Barragan lol. If he wasnt stupid as someone said he might be able to force shunsui into bankai but if its just a Shunsui v Barragan id give it to shunsui hands down.

There on different levels entirely, Starrk who is stronger than Barragan still hasnt forced shunsui to go bankai and will most likely die from his shikai so Barragan standing a chance-please. Shunsui is no doubt skilled at hado and with the ridiculous reiatsu he has to back it up Barragan would be in a very uncomfortable position indeed.

Its hard to judge barragans strenght because he did lose to two overall average opponents without hurting either too badly but then again they fluked that win hardcore. Still we know hes weaker than Starrk and at this stage it seems Starrk is weaker than Shunsui so....

Aikidoka
September 20, 2009, 06:29 PM
It depends on whether or not the game that Shunsui's sword chooses (not Shunsui, we know he has no control over it) allows the use of Respira and Barragan's force field. For example Starrk couldn't use his guns since he needed to cut the opponent to have the color rules apply.

If it allows it, then Shunsui loses. If it doesn't allow it, Barragan still has Gran Caeda but the match will then depend on physical skills vs. physical skills, which we haven't seen the full capabilities of from neither Barragan nor Shunsui.

So not enough information.

EDIT: Oh, also, Shunsui may not need to touch Barragan to harm him. For example, Hachigeneral's suggestion of Busho Koma may work...can air even be aged or transformed to the point that it's harmless?

xXAshisogiJizoXx
September 20, 2009, 06:56 PM
@aikidoka,
If ur going by natural science vs classical elements like i do, then whether or not air can be aged is yes and no. any molecules that make up air can be aged, but any singular elements found in air, can't be broken down further by time, and the "wind" from those elements may be enough to disrupt the effect of respira. however, this is if the respira is a gas or has gaseous properties. the former i doubt, but the latter is possible. we also don't know if barragan can still do that slow-down effect whilst released

BTW; this is the 8th barragan vs **** thread,...just throwing that out there

poobert
September 21, 2009, 05:34 AM
EDIT: Oh, also, Shunsui may not need to touch Barragan to harm him. For example, Hachigeneral's suggestion of Busho Koma may work...can air even be aged or transformed to the point that it's harmless?

Yes it can. Air is what does the damage after an explosion. After soifons bankai goes off, it's the air shockwave that does damage.

It required an explosion of that level to even harm barragan, there is no chance Busho Koma would do anything.

benelori
September 21, 2009, 07:01 AM
First thanx for the posts...I thought for a while people saw there's another barragan thread, and said" c'mon this guy, too?" I'm not much of a thread starter, so I thank U...
There was the bousho koma idea which I liked very much...I think a trick like this or similar could be useful...I don't really have a good idea how should kyouraku damage barragan...
I have a question though...if kyouraku said his sword is selfish and makes the rules so the winner lives and the loser dies...let's say barragan loses a game, can he really use respira as effectively as aginst soi fon and co?
Or let's say they play the color game...barragan calls out orange...will his respira be able to injure starrk as it would normally?I think not...
Even so barragan showed analytic skills and being nr.2 espada, so I think he can figure out a game rule...of course not like starrk but still...that's why shunsui should be careful and try to do the killing blow when the game involves long ranged attacks, like that kageoni game...I think he can deal considerable damage to barragan this way, though he will have to sacrifice a sword or an arm at least, so it would be really tough on him..

Hachigeneral
September 21, 2009, 07:30 AM
Hmmm another thing is that Shunsui is probably the most cautious fighter in Bleach that we have seen. Even against Chad he analyzed him before going in for the kill. Against Stark the majority of the fight consisted of Shunsui annoying him by dodging sword strikes and ceros. Pretty obvious Shunsui won't rush in which would cost some other captains such as hotheaded Hitsuguya and Kenpachi the fight against Barragan.

I think his odds are good, I'm not sure Barragan's aging aura would stop the sword strikes if it is surrounded by Koma Busho, we know he can surround the enemy in the wind so perhaps he can keep it on his sword. But even if he can only surround Barragan with the wind it may still be enough to displace the aura and get a big strike in, like he tried against Stark initially. I don't think Barra's respira would go where he wants it to if a tornado is around him. Now it is Barragan's fight to lose, but if Shunsui got hit in the arm or leg he would definitely slice it off then Bankai also, given he will do anything to win.

I'd say he would do a lot better than Soifon for sure but its tough to say if he can take this since Barra might still have the good speed in released form and be tough to surprise/blitz, which is what it would take to beat him.

benelori
September 21, 2009, 12:11 PM
If kyouraku has any chance to injure barragan with a swordslice or similar attack, than I think the odds are quite high...he has his zanpaktous advantage, that the opponent gets caught in a game, too, thus barragan would have no chance but to follow rules against his will.
So if kyouraku wins a game, barragan will have to die...that's how strong kyouraku's zanpaktou is IMO, it can surpass even an absolute power like barragan's...

^^Again good point...kyouraku would most certainly test barragan's power and abilities...so using any opening to hurt barragan rises his chances of winning...