Fantasy Uzumaki Naruto vs Hoshigaki Kisame [Archive]

Delbi

February 05, 2009, 02:20 AM

I've been thinking to myself, at this point, aside from Pain, Nagato, Sasuke, Killerbee and Madara, who could pose as a threat and/or possibly defeat Naruto?

The only person for me atm is Kisame.

Now just a few things to keep in mind.

According to the current Data Book, Kisame may have as much, if not more chakra than Naruto has. That's pretty beast. So, in this fight, its not a matter of who will outlast the other, but who is better?

Neither holds and elemental advantage over the other, and both are extremely strong and fast. Both are also Ninjutsu type ninja, and while Naruto uses Frog Fu, Kisame has the monster that is Shadame at his disposal.

Gai had to open Six Chakra gates to kill Kisame while he was at only 30% power. Personally, I am amazed by this, and I think its a testimate to how strong Kisame is.

Samehada to me, is still a wild card. From what we have seen, it can absorb any type of chakra, Kyuubi or Normal, so my guess is that it can absorb Sage Chakra just as easily. My big question is, can Kisame's sword absorb ninjutsu, similar to how Hungry Ghost can? Ninjutsu are made of chakra, I'm wondering if attacks can be blocked/absorbed through he sword.

We have yet to see Kisame fight all out either. He may have other secret abilities that we do not know about, which would make him redic. However, we don't know what else he has, so we can't really comment on that.

So, scenerio:

Naruto is in Sage Mode, and like his fight vs. Pain has Kb's meditating somwhere ready for use if need be. However, he has no summons with him.

Kisame is Kisame as we have always seen him with his sword and they are both by themselves.

Location: An Open feild with a surrounding forest.

My Opinion: This fight is too close to call IMO, and I really can't think of who wold win. Kisame is unlike an opponent Naruto has faced before, and Samehada represents a huge problem to Naruto. Then again, can Kisame even get to use it on Naruto? He is fast and strong, but is he as fast and as strong as Naruto is in Sage Mode?

Shaunlim

February 05, 2009, 02:34 AM

kkck

February 05, 2009, 12:40 PM

I think that with HM naruto has more strenth, speed, and even if it sounds ridiculous more stamina than kisame(given that due to HM naruto wont get tired but the other way around lol).
IMHO ma and pa can take kisame on their own. I dont really see kisame winning this one. On the other hand if the thread was about kisame vs normal naruto it would be much more interesting although I think kisame would win that one.

1TrueSensei

February 05, 2009, 01:06 PM

In Sage Mode Kisame and Naruto would be equal tai-wise, but base mode Naruto would most likely get crushed by Kisame. So, depends on the time of the fight.

With the exception of one jutsu (SM specific at that) everyone of Naruto's attacking jutsus are close range. Now, I feel that Naruto can create an opening, but this is a guy who at 30% held off the taijutsu master of the series. It's not gonna be easy for Naruto and will require some creative thinking from him.

Neither have thus far shown an inclination towards genjutsu, so that's out. Summons, I don't know that Naruto would summon them except in a tight pinch, usually to fight another summon. The only reason why many didn't call foul with Naruto using summons against Pein is 1) we know that one can spam summons until the cows come home, so he would've ended up summoning them anyway and 2) Ma and Pa were with him, along with having precious info on Pein. They were needed in this fight. If Naruto brought a summon along with him to every fight people would begin to doubt his stand-alone skills.

Like said above Samehada is the definite wild card. Naruto is a close range fighter, so the sword will definitely come into play. It will be up to Naruto to find some way to perhaps seal the sword or summon a frog to then reverse summon the sword to another location, or some crafty thinking like that. Because as long as that sword is in play Naruto is in a distinct disadvantage. If it can absorb kyuubi chakra, it can absorb sage chakra.

Delbi

February 05, 2009, 01:20 PM

Samehada can only be used to absorbed chakra. That said, I doubt frog-fu will be affected by it since it uses natural energy to attack the opponent. And I doubt Samehada absorbs that since it is all around it in the first place.

Summoning wise, all Naruto has to summon is Ma and he will get his frog of army easily as Ma can just summon the rest for him.

Ninjutsu wise, from what we have seen from both, Naruto's ninjutsu simply > Kisame's. Unless there are others that he can use that we haven't seen at all.

Taijutsu wise, Probably a tie but I see Naruto taking a lead with the frog-fu

Genjutsu wise, nothing can be said here as neither uses it.

Speed wise, Naruto is probably faster.

Strength wise, Hard to say, probably a tied or Naruto with a slight lead.

Ability to see upcoming attacks, Naruto takes this with his new ability to sense chakra. I'm not saying that it is the same to the SHG but more towards the Byakugan in some sense.

All in all, I see Naruto taking it. Might be easy, might be hard but Kisame is simply outnumbered here if Naruto uses summoning.

Well Naruto can't use Sage Mode if Kisame rips chakra out of him. He has to keep balance, and even if Nartural Energy can not be absorbed, when Naruto's chakra is absorbed, Sage Mode would fail unless Naruto realsed enough Natural Energy to re-balance his chakra with the Natural Energy he absorbed.

Naruto really can't see upcoming attacks, he can just sense peoples chakra, we have no evidence that he can sense actual attacks.

Well Naruto isn't better at ninjutsu as much as his one attack, Rasengan is more powerful than anything Kisame has used. Kismame uses suitons that use much less chakra than a FRS, and they are all quite powerful themselves.

Also keep in mind, Kisame can turn any battle field into a lake since he was the water affinity and can spit water out of his mouth in large quantities. And numbers aren't much of a problem for Kisame since he can make water clones, each one would be able to deal with a summon, and its not like Kisame would be limited as water clones seem to take up much less chakra than a KB.

When he fought Gai's team, he rather easily nutrialized Neji, Lee, and Ten Ten and fought with Gai. Granted Neji was able to break out of the water prision, but Naruto does not have the same abilities Neji does. Numbers don't seem to be a problem for Kisame, I think his biggest problem would be Naruto and nothing else.

The Flash

February 05, 2009, 01:25 PM

was going to post something about... but decided not to waste my time. Im just saying if naruto uses the kyuubi chakra(where the supply is infinite).
Naruto: "Ok kisame, absorb my infinite chakra, you bitch"
*naruto destroys the shnizzel out of kisame*
Kisame: "damn it"

Shaunlim

February 05, 2009, 09:15 PM

Like said above Samehada is the definite wild card. Naruto is a close range fighter, so the sword will definitely come into play. It will be up to Naruto to find some way to perhaps seal the sword or summon a frog to then reverse summon the sword to another location, or some crafty thinking like that. Because as long as that sword is in play Naruto is in a distinct disadvantage. If it can absorb kyuubi chakra, it can absorb sage chakra.

Well Naruto can't use Sage Mode if Kisame rips chakra out of him. He has to keep balance, and even if Nartural Energy can not be absorbed, when Naruto's chakra is absorbed, Sage Mode would fail unless Naruto realsed enough Natural Energy to re-balance his chakra with the Natural Energy he absorbed.

Naruto really can't see upcoming attacks, he can just sense peoples chakra, we have no evidence that he can sense actual attacks.

Well Naruto isn't better at ninjutsu as much as his one attack, Rasengan is more powerful than anything Kisame has used. Kismame uses suitons that use much less chakra than a FRS, and they are all quite powerful themselves.

Also keep in mind, Kisame can turn any battle field into a lake since he was the water affinity and can spit water out of his mouth in large quantities. And numbers aren't much of a problem for Kisame since he can make water clones, each one would be able to deal with a summon, and its not like Kisame would be limited as water clones seem to take up much less chakra than a KB.

When he fought Gai's team, he rather easily nutrialized Neji, Lee, and Ten Ten and fought with Gai. Granted Neji was able to break out of the water prision, but Naruto does not have the same abilities Neji does. Numbers don't seem to be a problem for Kisame, I think his biggest problem would be Naruto and nothing else.

1. On the absorbing chakra ability by Samehada. I think there is some confusion here. Samehada doesn't forcibly rips out a person's chakra. This is proven when Asuma wasn't affected by that ability whatsoever. The reason why Kyuubi's chakra was actually snatched in the first place was because the chakra was filling up the entire room http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/16/

2. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/18/
chakra sensing ability does somewhat help.

3. But so far, all of Naruto's ninjutsu just > Kisame's. Not saying Kisame's jutsu is useless, but each of them can be countered by Naruto.

4. Actually Kisame is grossly outnumbered if Naruto were to use summonings here. All of Kisame's Mizu Bunshin can be countered with Naruto's own KBs. Thus Naruto definitely have the advantage in numbers. Also, Mizu bunshin is just 10% of the original's strength.

kkck

February 05, 2009, 09:59 PM

3. But so far, all of Naruto's ninjutsu just > Kisame's. Not saying Kisame's jutsu is useless, but each of them can be countered by Naruto.

I wouldnt put it like that though. Its not like naruto has a counter for each and evey of kisames jutsu, but rather he could receive most of them and take them head on. For instance a tsunami or water sharks wouldnt really hurt naruto. I am not saying naruto is invulnerable though, just that he could take them. Wonder if naruto can use those toad swords jiraiya used to kill pein, it would be awesome to see a sword contest between sage naruto and kisame lol.

Shaunlim

February 05, 2009, 10:09 PM

I wouldnt put it like that though. Its not like naruto has a counter for each and evey of kisames jutsu, but rather he could receive most of them and take them head on. For instance a tsunami or water sharks wouldnt really hurt naruto. I am not saying naruto is invulnerable though, just that he could take them. Wonder if naruto can use those toad swords jiraiya used to kill pein, it would be awesome to see a sword contest between sage naruto and kisame lol.

Well, the tsunami was easily evaded by Team Gai, so I don't see any reason why Naruto just can't jump across it as well. For the water sharks, first Naruto has to get underwater for it to work. Assuming that he does go underwater, I see Cho Oodama taking them all out in one shot.

As for the sword though, I don't know. It seems kinda bulky for Naruto. But maybe that's just me.

Deviant

February 05, 2009, 10:45 PM

I've been thinking to myself, at this point, aside from Pain, Nagato, Sasuke, Killerbee and Madara, who could pose as a threat and/or possibly defeat Naruto?

The only person for me atm is Kisame.

Now just a few things to keep in mind.

According to the current Data Book, Kisame may have as much, if not more chakra than Naruto has. That's pretty beast. So, in this fight, its not a matter of who will outlast the other, but who is better?

Neither holds and elemental advantage over the other, and both are extremely strong and fast. Both are also Ninjutsu type ninja, and while Naruto uses Frog Fu, Kisame has the monster that is Shadame at his disposal.

Gai had to open Six Chakra gates to kill Kisame while he was at only 30% power. Personally, I am amazed by this, and I think its a testimate to how strong Kisame is.

Shadiame to me, is still a wild card. From what we have seen, it can absorb any type of chakra, Kyuubi or Normal, so my guess is that it can absorb Sage Chakra just as easily. My big question is, can Kisame's sword absorb ninjutsu, similar to how Hungry Ghost can? Ninjutsu are made of chakra, I'm wondering if attacks can be blocked/absorbed through he sword.

We have yet to see Kisame fight all out either. He may have other secret abilities that we do not know about, which would make him redic. However, we don't know what else he has, so we can't really comment on that.

So, scenerio:

Naruto is in Sage Mode, and like his fight vs. Pain has Kb's meditating somwhere ready for use if need be. However, he has no summons with him.

Kisame is Kisame as we have always seen him with his sword and they are both by themselves.

Location: An Open feild with a surrounding forest.

My Opinion: This fight is too close to call IMO, and I really can't think of who wold win. Kisame is unlike an opponent Naruto has faced before, and Shadiame represents a huge problem to Naruto. Then again, can Kisame even get to use it on Naruto? He is fast and strong, but is he as fast and as strong as Naruto is in Sage Mode?

From what I understand, Kisame had 30% of his original's chakra. But his body was just as strong as the normal. If the real Kisame was getting his face beat in by Gai, he would have lost just the same, in my opinion.

ninjabot

February 05, 2009, 11:40 PM

While Samehada can be removed from Kisame, it can't be wielded by the enemy due to it's spikes on the handle. Also, I don't think nearly enough is known about Kisame for me to make a real decision.

Kisame's speed stat isn't actually low (4, only half a point behind Sasuke), but I wouldn't consider him a speedster. Then there's his strength of 5, taijutsu, and ninjutsu which are 4.5. That's friggin' elite.

Still, the arena doesn't allow for him to flood the area...and there's no elemental advantage either ninja could take advantage of. It'll take a bit more thought before I can pick a winner, though I'm leaning toward Naruto for the simple fact that we know more about him and what he can do.

Raizen

February 12, 2009, 05:32 PM

Naruto wins, hands down.

SuperSaiyaMan

October 22, 2009, 09:16 PM

Who wins?

First match: Naruto is not in Sage Mode
Second Match: Naruto is in Sage Mode

The battle takes place in the same place where the clone of Kisame fought Team Gai.

niblack89

October 24, 2009, 08:34 PM

Naruto sage mode he wont stand a chance with out it FRS it over. Kasame is a brute with power and chakra Naruto seem to be more of a strategist.

jdw

October 24, 2009, 10:32 PM

Who wins?

First match: Naruto is not in Sage Mode
Second Match: Naruto is in Sage Mode

The battle takes place in the same place where the clone of Kisame fought Team Gai.

First match: Naruto will just have to strategize a way to get into sage mode, then he will whip on Kisame

Second match: Naruto whips on Kisame.

Weapon_X

October 25, 2009, 05:56 PM

Who wins?

First match: Naruto is not in Sage Mode
Second Match: Naruto is in Sage Mode

The battle takes place in the same place where the clone of Kisame fought Team Gai.

I'd say Kisame wins in both situations.

First match: Naruto hardly has any chance, he is weak compared to Kisame in base mode.

Second Match: Naruto has some chance but Kisame takes the edge on this. They are both tanks but something tells me Kisame is stronger.

Anyway, I will leave this out in the open until I see Kisame's full power ina few months :)

SuperSaiyaMan

October 25, 2009, 06:09 PM

Second Match: Naruto has some chance but Kisame takes the edge on this. They are both tanks but something tells me Kisame is stronger.
Naruto plowed through Five Paths of Pain in Sage Mode and can toss 1000 ton summons into the sky like they are nothing. Why would Kisame be stronger?

Prince Sasuke

October 25, 2009, 06:16 PM

I believe theres alot more to Kisame then we know,but i'll go with Kisame wins the first match,and loses the second. Naruto is pretty bad in normal mode without the Kyuubi,and unless Kisame has some ultimate defense, Sage mode will be to much for him.

Weapon_X

October 25, 2009, 06:53 PM

Naruto plowed through Five Paths of Pain in Sage Mode and can toss 1000 ton summons into the sky like they are nothing. Why would Kisame be stronger?

And...? Carry on.

What's your point? So what if Naruto tossed a boss sized summon, that's got nothing to do with him being stronger then Kisame. And he plowed through the 5 realms, wow. You do know Kisame would be able to do the same thing, right? As a matter of fact, most ninjas would be able to plow through the 5 realms apart from Deva.

SuperSaiyaMan

October 25, 2009, 07:02 PM

And...? Carry on.

What's your point? So what if Naruto tossed a boss sized summon, that's got nothing to do with him being stronger then Kisame. And he plowed through the 5 realms, wow. You do know Kisame would be able to do the same thing, right? As a matter of fact, most ninjas would be able to plow through the 5 realms apart from Deva.
Uh, no. Most ninja would be slaughtered by one Realm. Kisame wouldn't be able to do the same AT ALL. You forget the realm's abilities, correct?

Given that Jiraiya was able to beat three, and Kisame said he'd have no chance against Jiraiya, why do you think that Kisame would have any chance against Pain, much less than Naruto?

jdw

October 25, 2009, 07:10 PM

Who wins?

First match: Naruto is not in Sage Mode
Second Match: Naruto is in Sage Mode

The battle takes place in the same place where the clone of Kisame fought Team Gai.

Either way the ending is the same, really. Naruto will either be in sage mode or get into sage mode. The Kisame we have seen has no answer for the following:

Naruto
999 Clones (or possibly fewer in sage mode, or definitely fewer if sage mode + gathering N/E or moulding sage chakra)
Ma
Pa
Gamaken
Gamabunta
Gamahiro
Gamatatsu
Gamakichi

Naruto summon Pa, who then summons ma, who then summons the rest of the toad army. Ma and Pa complete frog song, Kisame dies.

Essence

October 25, 2009, 07:25 PM

some people are giving kisame too much hype. the difference that really matters is that naruto is more intelligent, a very important tool he had to fight against pain, kisame is more brute force than thinker which is why he is more of a match for killer Bee, so i think naruto got this.

TeAm#7FoReVer

October 25, 2009, 07:25 PM

1. Kisame wins
2. I don´t know because there is not enough information about Kisame´s powers. However, considering Samehada and the chakra Kisame has, I think the fight could be a draw in this case.

Naruffy

November 15, 2009, 09:24 AM

Richo

November 15, 2009, 09:44 AM

Based on the most recent chapter;

1. Kisame
2. Naruto or a tie, because naruto's sage chakra cannot be absorbed by Kisame, it would turn him into a frog. It would be an even fight, and I think that Naruto would outsmart Kisame to win.

well the Samehada does absorb the chakra and it wont transfer to Kisame instantly...
If this would be the case it would be a easy win for naruto with his sage powers. Naruto goes sage mode then lets kisame absorb it all and walk away without a scratch.....
however if naruto was to go up against kisami for some reason he would be unable to use his sage chakra to not make it a easy fight for naruto....

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 12:03 PM

Naruto summon Pa, who then summons ma, who then summons the rest of the toad army. Ma and Pa complete frog song, Kisame dies.

Wait...when has Naruto been proven to be able to summon whichever toad he wants at will? We've seen nothing to imply that he's increased his summoning proficiency. I'm throroughly convinced he can still only manage to make Gamabunta on a fluke. Mastery of Sage Mode does prove his chakra control is better, but we've only seen him use said chakra to perform the jutsu he's already proficient in using (KB, Rasengan, FRS).

Anyway, first scenario Naruto loses. Second scenario, Naruto wins. Not from greater strength or skill either. From the ability to turn Samehada into a huge stone when it tries to eat his Sage Chakra. After that, there's no regenerating from Kisame, or refueling his chakra.

Then again...Naruto can't breath underwater...

jdw

November 15, 2009, 12:16 PM

Wait...when has Naruto been proven to be able to summon whichever toad he wants at will? We've seen nothing to imply that he's increased his summoning proficien

Here he summoned the toad he wanted and he got him:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/134/15/

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/20/84454575.jpg

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 12:37 PM

I had a feeling that exact scan would be used. What I meant was, something that relied on good chakra control rather than just pouring a large amount of chakra into whatever jutsu you're making.

That summoning in that panel was the equivalent of making 1000 KB when all you want is one, thanks to an inability to use the correct amount of chakra. It's common knowledge that the summon called forth by the summoner has a chakra cost directly proportionate to the size of the summon in question. What I'm getting at is Naruto would have to use the right amount of chakra aswell as the right handseals necessary to summon just Fukusaku or just Ma.

Databook shows Naruto as having little skill in handseals, which is a given. Then there's the fact that again, we've never saw him summon via skill and proficiency rather than a fluke in the midst of danger. Which doesn't count.

SuperSaiyaMan

November 15, 2009, 12:39 PM

The Databook skill set for Seals is Fuinjutsu not hand seals ninjabot.

And keep criminally underating Naruto. Doesn't make you right.

jdw

November 15, 2009, 12:51 PM

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 01:02 PM

Okay. I'm just saying; in a fight where most of your chakra is spent keeping yourself afloat above water, dodging sharks from beneath you and around you, and having your jutsu interrupted thanks to chakra being ripped from you, how many summons can he afford to botch? How much chakra will have been devoured by the time he makes it work?

Moreover, how quickly can Naruto get to Kisame while he's underwater? SM would increase his...swimming speed, lol. But comperable to a bijuu chakra leveled shark?

And keep criminally underating Naruto. Doesn't make you right.

You're right. That's not what makes me right at all.

Hauradrims3

November 15, 2009, 01:03 PM

Well... kisame does get stronger in direct proportion to how strong his opponent is, and by strong i guess he really means how much chakra they have. So the more the merrier :)
Lol... and apparently he cant be deafeated -_-

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/15/

SuperSaiyaMan

November 15, 2009, 01:05 PM

Why do you figure Naruto's chakra control is so poor that he'd use up most of his chakra just staying on top of the water, Ninjabot? Don't you remember, pre-Timeskip, Naruto was able to fight Sasuke entirely on top of the water with no exertion whatsoever.

You ignore Naruto's feats and claim he's a bad ninja. You are just showing how biased you are.

jdw

November 15, 2009, 01:11 PM

Okay. I'm just saying; in a fight where most of your chakra is spent keeping yourself afloat above water, dodging sharks from beneath you and around you, and having your jutsu interrupted thanks to chakra being ripped from you, how many summons can he afford to botch? How much chakra will have been devoured by the time he makes it work?

Moreover, how quickly can Naruto get to Kisame while he's underwater? SM would increase his...swimming speed, lol. But comperable to a bijuu chakra leveled shark?

You're right. That's not what makes me right at all.

Even if is not done in the most efficient way, Naruto is probably better off fighting with Ma and Pa at his side, and possibly the rest of the toad army, than he is fighting alone. Jiraiya showed some underwater style toad jutsu, perhaps they know some :)

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 01:52 PM

Even if is not done in the most efficient way, Naruto is probably better off fighting with Ma and Pa at his side, and possibly the rest of the toad army, than he is fighting alone. Jiraiya showed some underwater style toad jutsu, perhaps they know some

They could, sure. But with Naruto's inability to fuse with either of them, I doubt he has a frog's level of breath holding ability. Or that he could breath through gills or through his skin. But again, relying on Pa or Ma is a hypethetical, so I'll just stop with my reasoning as is.

Why do you figure Naruto's chakra control is so poor that he'd use up most of his chakra just staying on top of the water, Ninjabot? Don't you remember, pre-Timeskip, Naruto was able to fight Sasuke entirely on top of the water with no exertion whatsoever.

Not chakra control in general. Summoning proficiency. Besides, it's not just standing on the water that drains chakra. It's:

Standing on the water.
Keeping clones out to hide his positioning or try to go on the offensive.
Said clones attempting Rasengan.
Trying to sit still long enough to summon Sage Chakra while he's being attacked from below by water sharks.
Having that chakra swallowed up by Samehada
Having that chakra wasted each time he summons the wrong toad.
Having Kisame himself shooting water jutsu at him or fighting him with straight up taijutsu.

That's a whole lot of chakra being wasted.

Lightsnake

November 15, 2009, 02:54 PM

Not in the slightest given how utterly easy it is to stand on water.
Also, given how durable Sage Mode's skin is, how are the sharks going to scratch him?

Gats

November 15, 2009, 03:04 PM

Naruto creates a FFRS and throw it underwater, or underwater he creates a giant Rasengan. Just imagine the effect of this : a giant swirling water or/and its explosion => bye bye lake no jutsu ><

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 03:58 PM

Not in the slightest given how utterly easy it is to stand on water.

You ignored the entire list of chakra consuming actions that stack on top of the standing on water problem.

Also, given how durable Sage Mode's skin is, how are the sharks going to scratch him?

And how durable is that exactly? Durable enough to prevent Nagato's spear from penetrating Naruto's torso?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/04/

Nope. And that was an attack intentionally meant to spare Naruto so that he could have they Kyuubi removed. Maybe it's strong enough to endure an attack from Asura Realm?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/12/

Hm. No, I guess not. So, how are we sure that Kisame's sharks aren't strong enough to bite through Naruto? The short answer is "we aren't". Not to mention, Kisame can reach bijuu level chakras. These sharks would be more powerful than the ones that we've seen before if he's swallowed up some of Naruto's chakra, which happens everytime a bunshin or Naruto himself attempts a Rasengan or something else close range.

Naruto creates a FFRS and throw it underwater, or underwater he creates a giant Rasengan. Just imagine the effect of this : a giant swirling water or/and its explosion => bye bye lake no jutsu ><

It's possible... though, is this while Naruto's inside being nawed on by sharks, or while he's above the water being pounced on by sharks? Also, turning the water he's standing in or on into a razor sharp hurricane is SO not a good idea. Unless Naruto's plan is to shred himself into chum. Then there's also the possibility that FRS will simply be swallowed by Samehada. Which is the most likely case, as an FRS is nowhere near equal in chakra to a 6 tailed Bijuu.

Lightsnake

November 15, 2009, 05:25 PM

You ignored the entire list of chakra consuming actions that stack on top of the standing on water problem.
Yeah, because it costs so much chakra to perform a very basic move...never mind in Sage Mode, one does not run out of stamina...

And how durable is that exactly? Durable enough to prevent Nagato's spear from penetrating Naruto's torso?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/04/

Nope. And that was an attack intentionally meant to spare Naruto so that he could have they Kyuubi removed. Maybe it's strong enough to endure an attack from Asura Realm?
Why is it whenever you cite things with Pain, you totally decide to just forget just how strong Pain is?
Remember when Naruto fell directly on a large spike? Remember it broke?
What does that say? That Pain is very, very strong? I thought so

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/12/

Hm. No, I guess not. So, how are we sure that Kisame's sharks aren't strong enough to bite through Naruto? The short answer is "we aren't".
Goodie. So provide some evidence of their power. Because we know sage Mode increases durability a huge amount to tank hits from enormous summons and break large spikes by falling onto them.
But wait. The strongest guy in the series' can damage it? Clearly this means Sage Mode sucks and doesn't say anything at all about Pain's abilities...

Not to mention, Kisame can reach bijuu level chakras. These sharks would be more powerful than the ones that we've seen before if he's swallowed up some of Naruto's chakra, which happens everytime a bunshin or Naruto himself attempts a Rasengan or something else close range.
Prove it. Show me an instance of Samehada devouring Chakra that's not visible. It didn't eat Gai's or Asuma's when it cut them.

It's possible... though, is this while Naruto's inside being nawed on by sharks, or while he's above the water being pounced on by sharks? Also, turning the water he's standing in or on into a razor sharp hurricane is SO not a good idea. Unless Naruto's plan is to shred himself into chum. Then there's also the possibility that FRS will simply be swallowed by Samehada. Which is the most likely case, as an FRS is nowhere near equal in chakra to a 6 tailed Bijuu.

How would the fuuton shred Naruto if he jumps and throws? It'd wreck Kisame's battlefield, that's for sure. and if it came to Taijutsu? Frog Katas wouldn't be good for Kisame.

Rikudou King

November 15, 2009, 07:48 PM

I would say Kisame would have the edge both times. Kisame's opus modum seems to be summoning a large lake to fight in, So he would definitely do it the first chance he gets. It's unlikely Naruto would summon any of the Toads before then, And afterwards he wouldn't have a chance if Kisame keep the pressure on him. Outside of Sage Mode, Naruto would attempt to summon some clones to buy himself time, Which would become nothing but a quick meal for Samehade. With Sage Mode, FRS would move slow under the water in comparison to Kisame's speed, Making it ineffective to use. But this could buy Naruto enough time to summon a Toad, Though that would accomplish only giving Kisame another source of chakra to eat. Kisame has the advantage of long range attacks both in and out of the water, Naruto would have a hard time hurting him if he chooses to keep his distance.

All Kiame would really have to do is keep Naruto pressed under the water. Naruto will end up dead in a couple of minutes regardless of Sage Mode or otherwise.

Lightsnake

November 15, 2009, 07:54 PM

Also, Kisame may get a surprise if he tries to devour Sage Chakra...remember Hungry Ghost?

ninjabot

November 15, 2009, 10:46 PM

Yeah, because it costs so much chakra to perform a very basic move...never mind in Sage Mode, one does not run out of stamina...

That's twice now you ignored the rest of the list and only focused on the standing on water part. Twice.

Why is it whenever you cite things with Pain, you totally decide to just forget just how strong Pain is?
Remember when Naruto fell directly on a large spike? Remember it broke?
What does that say? That Pain is very, very strong? I thought so

Wait...Naruto falling on spikes and surviving = Pein is strong? Pein doesn't have Senjutsu. Also, those spikes were mere rocks. Stalagmites. Not high rank ninjutsu. Hell, that spike that impaled Naruto wasn't made of some industructible metal, proven by the fact that Naruto broke one on his own. No, there's nothing that proves Naruto can get bit by one of Kisame's sharks without being injured. Nothing at all.

Goodie. So provide some evidence of their power. Because we know sage Mode increases durability a huge amount to tank hits from enormous summons and break large spikes by falling onto them.
But wait. The strongest guy in the series' can damage it? Clearly this means Sage Mode sucks and doesn't say anything at all about Pain's abilities...

Sage Mode increases the ninja's physical capabilities. Samehada does the same thing with stolen chakra. The more chakra that's eaten from Naruto and his jutsu and his clones, the greater Kisame's physical capabilities (one's powered by chakra) become. Ontop of near instant regeneration. So yeah, even if the initial sharks don't bite Naruto to death, they'll gradually grow stronger and stronger as Kisame makes them with more and more chakra. It's the same thing as when Naruto uses Sage Mode to make giant Rasengan. More chakra equals bigger, more powerful jutsu. Bigger more powerful sharks make bigger, bloodier bite marks.

Not to mention the fact that as long as there's water, there's gonna be resources to make more and more water sharks. How the hell do you kill water?

Prove it. Show me an instance of Samehada devouring Chakra that's not visible. It didn't eat Gai's or Asuma's when it cut them.

It doesn't need to be invisible. Just chakra coming from the ninja while they're forming or releasing it in a jutsu or any other fashion. Like so: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/17/ Being able to see it just means there's alot coming out. Notice the jutsu is interrupted due to the necessary chakra being stripped from Naruto before he could finish? Point proven. Where'd the invisible stuff come from anyway?

How would the fuuton shred Naruto if he jumps and throws? It'd wreck Kisame's battlefield, that's for sure. and if it came to Taijutsu? Frog Katas wouldn't be good for Kisame.

Not saying it's impossible. Just very, very VERY hard when you're currently fighting off a school of sharks and a bijuu-level opponent. If he can hold his breath long enough to reach the surface, dodgeing shark after shark then sure, he can avoid bisecting his body by jumping up and throwing the jutsu down. And Frog Katas WOULD be good for Kisame. Infact, it'd be downright...delicious. You see, Samehada sniffs out the chakra on his on. Kisame doesn't have to see it. Each punch that is whiffed by Naruto fuels the sword more. Not to mention Kawazu Kumite didn't turn Hungry Ghost Realm into stone. It wasn't until he started absorbing chakra from Naruto's body that it happened. Obviously Kawazu Kumite isn't potent enough for that.

Infact, that's the only reason I gave Naruto the victory in the scenario where he has Sage Mode, because Samehada would be turned into stone. In which case he'd be a big ass club to bludgeon Naruto with.

Lightsnake

November 16, 2009, 12:48 AM

That's twice now you ignored the rest of the list and only focused on the standing on water part. Twice.
That's twice you ignored how effortlessly Naruto does the rest anyways...

Wait...Naruto falling on spikes and surviving = Pein is strong? Pein doesn't have Senjutsu. Also, those spikes were mere rocks. Stalagmites. Not high rank ninjutsu.
Because we all know sharp stone is weak. Naruto even commented the spikes didn't hurt him at all. Yes, this just goes to show Pain's chakra rods are very strong

Hell, that spike that impaled Naruto wasn't made of some industructible metal, proven by the fact that Naruto broke one on his own. No, there's nothing that proves Naruto can get bit by one of Kisame's sharks without being injured. Nothing at all.
The brittle nature of the chakra rods mean not a damn thing to their piercing power, or did you not know that?
You need to prove how strong Kisame's sharks are because SM Naruto is very durable. All you've shown? That Pain has very strong chakra rods

Sage Mode increases the ninja's physical capabilities. Samehada does the same thing with stolen chakra. The more chakra that's eaten from Naruto and his jutsu and his clones, the greater Kisame's physical capabilities (one's powered by chakra) become. Ontop of near instant regeneration. So yeah, even if the initial sharks don't bite Naruto to death, they'll gradually grow stronger and stronger as Kisame makes them with more and more chakra. It's the same thing as when Naruto uses Sage Mode to make giant Rasengan. More chakra equals bigger, more powerful jutsu. Bigger more powerful sharks make bigger, bloodier bite marks.
The Rasenshuriken would kill Kisame outright if it connects. And how does 'more chakra' make the sharks stronger? They're just one set jutsu. All it'd allow him to do would make more. And Kisame's supply of chakra is dependent on how much Samehada has stolen. You need to start proving your statements or providing evidence on Kisame's jutsu.
Especially that Kisame can change their size...if he's not stelaing any chakra.
And Hungry Ghost tried to steal Sage Chakra...look what happened to it. Prove Samehada can absorb sage Chakra, will you?

Not to mention the fact that as long as there's water, there's gonna be resources to make more and more water sharks. How the hell do you kill water?
You don't. You kill the one making it

It doesn't need to be invisible. Just chakra coming from the ninja while they're forming or releasing it in a jutsu or any other fashion. Like so: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/17/ Being able to see it just means there's alot coming out. Notice the jutsu is interrupted due to the necessary chakra being stripped from Naruto before he could finish? Point proven. Where'd the invisible stuff come from anyway?
Umm, no. Sage Chakra isn't coming off the user in waves like the Kyuubi chakra was. Kisame did NOT suck the chakra from Asuma and Gai and he didn't drain the wind chakra from Asuma's knives

Not saying it's impossible. Just very, very VERY hard when you're currently fighting off a school of sharks and a bijuu-level opponent. If he can hold his breath long enough to reach the surface, dodgeing shark after shark then sure, he can avoid bisecting his body by jumping up and throwing the jutsu down. And Frog Katas WOULD be good for Kisame. Infact, it'd be downright...delicious. You see, Samehada sniffs out the chakra on his on. Kisame doesn't have to see it. Each punch that is whiffed by Naruto fuels the sword more. Not to mention Kawazu Kumite didn't turn Hungry Ghost Realm into stone. It wasn't until he started absorbing chakra from Naruto's body that it happened. Obviously Kawazu Kumite isn't potent enough for that.
Oh, lord. Samehada isn't invincible. It didn't suck the Chakra from Asuma's knives...it didn't suck the chakra from Bee's pencil-Kisame had to dodge it and all evidence points that you cannot absorb Sage Chakra which is not visible anyways. Unless the Frog Kata was punched right next to Samehada, the punch would hit Kisame as it's a physical blow using the nature around you, not chakra.
It only snapped Hungry Ghost's neck...

Infact, that's the only reason I gave Naruto the victory in the scenario where he has Sage Mode, because Samehada would be turned into stone. In which case he'd be a big ass club to bludgeon Naruto with.
Yeah, because THAT would go well for Kisame. Let's slam stone into the guy it'd probably shatter on and get promptly killed for our trouble

Gats

November 16, 2009, 07:32 AM

It's possible... though, is this while Naruto's inside being nawed on by sharks, or while he's above the water being pounced on by sharks? Also, turning the water he's standing in or on into a razor sharp hurricane is SO not a good idea. Unless Naruto's plan is to shred himself into chum. Then there's also the possibility that FRS will simply be swallowed by Samehada. Which is the most likely case, as an FRS is nowhere near equal in chakra to a 6 tailed Bijuu.

Naruto is never alone, he can do a lot of things with kage bunshin protecting him or something like while he is doing his FRS or giant rasengan. He can also let one of his KB to do the jutsu and go away.

ninjabot

November 16, 2009, 07:09 PM

The brittle nature of the chakra rods mean not a damn thing to their piercing power, or did you not know that?
You need to prove how strong Kisame's sharks are because SM Naruto is very durable. All you've shown? That Pain has very strong chakra rods

Both Naruto and Fukusaku broke through those rods as if they were regular metal. The medical team inspecting the rods never mention anything of their density, and just claim that they pick up chakra signatures. As for the water sharks, they're B-rank for Suikodan, and B-rank for Go Shokuzame. Now, you can believe that Pein's plain old chakra conducter rods are stronger than two B rank Jutsu. Or that those regular stalagmites are stronger than two B Rank jutsu. But Gai didn't make that mistake:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/11/

That's Gai using 6 Gates to disperse the sharks. Like you said, Naruto's Sage chakra doesn't radiate in waves, so the only way he's pulling off that little Dragon Ball Z power up effect Gai just did is with an FRS. It took 6 gates to stop those sharks. How many gates do you think Gai has to open to break one of Pein's rods or those stalagmites Naruto fell on?

The Rasenshuriken would kill Kisame outright IF it connects. And how does 'more chakra' make the sharks stronger? They're just one set jutsu. All it'd allow him to do would make more. And Kisame's supply of chakra is dependent on how much Samehada has stolen. You need to start proving your statements or providing evidence on Kisame's jutsu.
Especially that Kisame can change their size...if he's not stelaing any chakra.
And Hungry Ghost tried to steal Sage Chakra...look what happened to it. Prove Samehada can absorb sage Chakra, will you?

Rasengan is one set jutsu. Pump much more chakra into it, you get Oodama Rasengan. Pump more, you get Chou Ransengan. It's really that simple. More proof?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/15/

Sasuke's Curse Seal allows him to pull more chakra from his body. After doing so, he begins overpowering Itachi's Goukakkyu thanks to the chakra boost (and even tanking one of them with his wing in the page prior). So yes, two canon instances where putting more chakra into a jutsu caused it to become more powerful; more destructive. My point about the sharks stands.

As for saying that Samehada can't absorb Sage Chakra...it's Chakra. Samehada absorbs chakra. Therefore, he can absorb Sage Chakra. I never once said it wouldn't turn Samehada to stone. So he rips the Sage Chakra from Naruto's body, turning him to normal. Then smashes him into paste with his new found stone club. Oh, and one more point. Prior to Samehada absorbing an enemy's chakra, Kisame already has the highest chakra reserve of all of Akatsuki. Samehada just increases that even more.

Umm, no. Sage Chakra isn't coming off the user in waves like the Kyuubi chakra was. Kisame did NOT suck the chakra from Asuma and Gai and he didn't drain the wind chakra from Asuma's knives

Normally, no. But it came off in waves when it hit Hungry Ghost via Kawazu Kumite. As for Asuma's knife, Hachibi's dagger did the exact same thing, so your point is moot. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/470/14/

As for Gai's punches, the real Samehada was with Kisame the whole time. Kisame didn't have access to his full abilities because it was just a 30% clone. I've no reason to believe that fake Samehada could pull off the same abilities. Unless you mean when Kisame was kicked by Gai back when Itachi almost killed Kakashi.

Oh, lord. Samehada isn't invincible. It didn't suck the Chakra from Asuma's knives...it didn't suck the chakra from Bee's pencil-Kisame had to dodge it and all evidence points that you cannot absorb Sage Chakra which is not visible anyways. Unless the Frog Kata was punched right next to Samehada, the punch would hit Kisame as it's a physical blow using the nature around you, not chakra.
It only snapped Hungry Ghost's neck...

The punch doesn't need to go by Samehada. Samehada will make it's way to the punch. It's a the newest chapter, so you couldn't have forgotten this that quickly, but here's the scan: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/03/

That's Samehada parrying the blow on it's on, and taking a bite out of Hachibi's chakra. Aslong as Naruto takes it close range, he gradually loses chakra. Assuming he makes it past all those sharks to begin with. As for not absorbing Sage Chakra, we have proof that you can: Hungry Ghost did so. He just turned to stone because he didn't know how to balance his own chakra with natural energy. By the way, it's called Sage Chakra for a reason. It is chakra, as it's a mixture of mental, physical, and natural energies to make a super chakra. It's still chakra.

[quote=Naruto is never alone, he can do a lot of things with kage bunshin protecting him or something like while he is doing his FRS or giant rasengan. He can also let one of his KB to do the jutsu and go away.[/quote]

All of which push him closer to running out of chakra, which will force him to go Kyuubi, which ALSO forces him to lose what miniscule amount of strategy he can normally muster because he'll become a rabid beast like when he fought God Realm. I'd like to remind everyone that after two FRS, Naruto returns to his base speed and strength, which is no doubt inferior to Kisame's.

Raizen

November 18, 2009, 02:32 PM

ninjabot

November 18, 2009, 05:00 PM

Did people forget about his performance against kakuzu, an akatsuki that is as strong as kisame if not stronger.

How do you make that conclusion? He has plenty of chakra and lots of AoE attacks, sure. But Kisame is likely a better Taijutsu user (7 Swordsman of the Mist), has more chakra, and from what we've seen is stronger (sending Gai to the bottom of a lake with one hand, and that's only his 30% clone) and faster (managing to cut off Sasuke and Hebi before they could reach Itachi, Karin mentions how fast he's moving).

Kisame is an idiot that stands and take the attack. Look at his match w/ bee.

Only when he knows he can recover/grow stronger from the attack. And how well do those clones help when they're all inside Kisame's giant water sphere? That jutsu is easily the most effective Suiton I've seen in the series, and it compliments his abilities perfectly:

1: Enemy is slowed down under water
2: Kisame is faster, thanks to his transformation, and the fact that he has even more chakra to propell himself
3: Enemy can't breath under water. Their highest priority is escaping so they can breathe.
4: Kisame has gills. All he has to do is follow them and spam sharks and other suiton to keep them exhausted until they drown.
5: If the ninja is fast enough to get a distance between them Kisame follows, making the water follow aswell. There's no way to get out of the sphere unless you're a faster swimmer than he is, and how many people do you think is a faster swimmer than a friggin' bijuu shark?
6: The enemy COULD try hitting Kisame to kill him and cancel out the jutsu...but then, they're setting themselves up for getting bitten and possibly having more chakra absorbed from them.

In short, there's no one that should be able to beat Kisame with this jutsu and transformation active. No one that needs to breathe atleast. Unless they can wield high-level Raiton or make a big, high risk jutsu in a short amount of time (while being hit from every side by Go Shokuzame.

EDIT: Forgot to add to that list of advantages that if his opponent attempts to hide somehow he can sense his chakra. Makes things even tougher.

Rikudou King

November 19, 2009, 01:41 AM

Even w/o sage mode, naruto has shown that he is quite skillful. Did people forget about his performance against kakuzu, an akatsuki that is as strong as kisame if not stronger. Naruto can use KBs to mess up kisame or keep him bz then finish him w/ FRS or just fuuton rasengan. Kisame is an idiot that stands and take the attack. Look at his match w/ bee. Except that any clones naruto makes would become nothing but food for Samehade. In fact, The idea of using any clones would be bad. Considering each clone has half of Naruto's chakra, The more clones he makes, The better the odds become for Kisame. Both the Rasengan and the FRS would disappear before they got to Kisame. Naruto would have to rely on his taijutsu, Which isn't all that powerful alone.

In SM, naruto would dominate. Ma and pa is enough to give kisame a run for his money. Add in frog katas and naruto enhanced abilities and it equals a dead shark Naruto has yet to summon any Toads for help in any of his fights. And unless he is capable of summoning underwater, They still won't be of any help. Nothing Sage Mode Naruto has shown comes close to the damage Gai or Kirabi is capable of, So Kisame isn't in any danger for that.

jdw

November 19, 2009, 01:52 AM

Naruto has yet to summon any Toads for help in any of his fights. And unless he is capable of summoning underwater, They still won't be of any help. Nothing Sage Mode Naruto has shown comes close to the damage Gai or Kirabi is capable of, So Kisame isn't in any danger for that.

?

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7854/bunta.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/134/15/

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4432/toadv.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/166/04/

For the record, I don't think he would have any issue summoning underwater. There is no no rule against it, and though it may be hard, it might not be harder than summoning while encased in a tomb of sand. And why couldnt he summon before he is underwater anyway?

Rikudou King

November 19, 2009, 03:01 AM

jdw

November 19, 2009, 08:58 AM

I should have been clearer. I meant his Part 2 fights. Fighting underwater would be harder then sand, Since he can't open his mouth under the water or make contact with the ground. Unless he sends clone off to do it.

Why does the ground matter? He doesn't need to make contact with the ground:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/374/55269190.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/17/

You keep on making things up to make things harder. In the latest chapter Shinobi were shown to be able to speak underwater anyway (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/472/01/), so it is not impossible. It was shown last week too (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/16/)!

THM Nindo

November 19, 2009, 09:24 AM

I think Naruto would win.
Provide that he can be in SM right away, he would injured Kisame just like Bee did, forcing Kisame to go into fusion mode and to create his water dome.

Inside the water dome, Naruto shouldn't have any problem to summon a huge toad, who could help him get out of it, or beat the crap out of Kisamehada.

Also, we can't forget that Kisame main's weapon might not work against Sage Naruto.
What would happen if Samehada (or Kisamehada) would suck the Sage Chakra?!
Here's a hint : http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/435/004/

Not sure if this would work, but I don't see why Samehada should be able to sustain Nature chakra and not Pain.

Kyuubinoyoko

November 19, 2009, 10:42 AM

@ NINJABOT

Why all this arguing? Worst comes to worst, Naruto goes 8 tails and destroys samaheda and kisame. Since kyuubis chakra is unlimited and undoubtedly more sinister, evil, deadly, than the "tasty" hachibis, stealing it is pointless. Samaheda and Kisame would just die from the poison that is Kyuubis Chakra. Or It will kill kisame and samaheda. Naruto will wake up and see samaheda smashed into a million spike pieces and kisame completely obliterated, limbless, headless, etc.

You cant beat Naruto. The only person who gets away with a victory is sasuke. Because Naruto doesnt want to kill him. Kisame on the other hand can be destroyed and killed without Naruto giving a rats a**.

Franckie

November 19, 2009, 03:06 PM

Scenario One: Naruto gets curbstomped
Scenario Two: Naruto has the edge, but if Kisame succeeds in dragging the match out, Naruto loses

Even w/o sage mode, naruto has shown that he is quite skillful. Did people forget about his performance against kakuzu, an akatsuki that is as strong as kisame if not stronger. Naruto can use KBs to mess up kisame or keep him bz then finish him w/ FRS or just fuuton rasengan. Kisame is an idiot that stands and take the attack. Look at his match w/ bee.

And I'm sure a 100% Naruto facing off against a ~50% Kakuzu with an info advantage and back-up had absolutely nothing to do with Naruto's performance whatsoever...

Why all this arguing? Worst comes to worst, Naruto goes 8 tails and destroys samaheda and kisame. Since kyuubis chakra is unlimited and undoubtedly more sinister, evil, deadly, than the "tasty" hachibis, stealing it is pointless. Samaheda and Kisame would just die from the poison that is Kyuubis Chakra. Or It will kill kisame and samaheda. Naruto will wake up and see samaheda smashed into a million spike pieces and kisame completely obliterated, limbless, headless, etc.

Naruto has no control over KN4+. He's limited to KN3 until we see or hear otherwise. Also, the Kyuubi's chakra has never been stated to be infinite, and Samaheda has absorbed it's chakra before with no problems. The only time Kyuubi chakra will cause damage to Kisame is if Kyuubi succeeds in inflicting internal damage, provided that such damage occurs before Samaheda absorbs the blunt of chakra that is.

Rikudou King

November 19, 2009, 03:53 PM

Why does the ground matter? He doesn't need to make contact with the ground:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/374/55269190.jpg
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/17/

You keep on making things up to make things harder. In the latest chapter Shinobi were shown to be able to speak underwater anyway (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/472/01/), so it is not impossible. It was shown last week too (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/16/)! My mistake. I wasn't trying to make things harder. I had completely forgotten about Naruto doing that. Mentally, I was picturing Naruto doing like Jiraiya did when summoning. Although, Even taking that into account, Naruto would still need time and distances to pull it off. If Samehade is near him, The chakra sent out for the summoning would just be gobbled up. That and Naruto's fighting style.

I have nothing for the talking underwater thing.

jdw

November 19, 2009, 04:05 PM

My mistake. I wasn't trying to make things harder. I had completely forgotten about Naruto doing that. Mentally, I was picturing Naruto doing like Jiraiya did when summoning. Although, Even taking that into account, Naruto would still need time and distances to pull it off. If Samehade is near him, The chakra sent out for the summoning would just be gobbled up. That and Naruto's fighting style.

I have nothing for the talking underwater thing.

Naruto used to have to be up close to fight, but with the addition of FRS to his arsenal, he has shown the can keep a little distance from an opponent. Plus he knows the threat of Samehada, so he might try to keep distance (he could fail).

ninjabot

November 19, 2009, 05:26 PM

For the record, I don't think he would have any issue summoning underwater. There is no no rule against it, and though it may be hard, it might not be harder than summoning while encased in a tomb of sand. And why couldnt he summon before he is underwater anyway?

It's not the underwater part that I'm stressing as far as summoning frogs goes. It's SUMMONING that I have issue with, as I still believe Naruto is remedial in summoning and that he's completely incapable of getting the results he wants without trying multiple times or being scared into a fluke. But I won't beat a dead horse. Especially since I'm sure Samehada would absorb whatever chakra is being put towards summoning. Just like when it interrupted Naruto's summon the very first time we realize what Samehada's power is. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/17/

Why all this arguing? Worst comes to worst, Naruto goes 8 tails and destroys samaheda and kisame. Since kyuubis chakra is unlimited and undoubtedly more sinister, evil, deadly, than the "tasty" hachibis, stealing it is pointless. Samaheda and Kisame would just die from the poison that is Kyuubis Chakra. Or It will kill kisame and samaheda. Naruto will wake up and see samaheda smashed into a million spike pieces and kisame completely obliterated, limbless, headless, etc.

Naruto goes 8 tails...and then gets 6 of them swallowed, turning him into a 2 tails. THAT'S why there's still an argument. Especially considering his regenerative abilities that were shown have only been rivaled by Orochimaru (the sheer speed at which his injury was heeled I mean). Naruto's only long range option is the FRS, and it may or may not be absorbed (Kisame absorbed that Vibro Raiton knife, dispite it being more dense than a Fuuton. FRS is a Fuuton. Also, that chakra isn't poisonous in the sense that it infects you. It's poisonous in a radiation sense. Like, being too close is harmful to your health because of how hot it is. FRS was described as a poison aswell, despite not actually being poison. Don't take it too literally.

Rikudou King

November 19, 2009, 10:06 PM

Samehade should be able to absorb FRS. Hungry Ghost Pain had no problem eating either the FRS or all the complete Sage Chakra Naruto had in him. It was only when Naruto drew in the incomplete natural energy that he fail. Since Naruto can't actually use the incomplete natural energy in an offensive way, Samehade should have no reason to fear eating any of Naruto's attacks.

Darth Executor

November 19, 2009, 10:39 PM

Also, Kisame may get a surprise if he tries to devour Sage Chakra...remember Hungry Ghost?

Hungry ghost devoured natural energy, not sage chakra.

ganjabuss

November 20, 2009, 01:36 AM

Rikudou King

November 20, 2009, 01:55 PM

shameheda will be able to eat FRS but if it touches FRS or get caught in blast radius b4 it can finish eating chakra...shameheda will become useless....hungry ghost was able to contain chakra with his hands then suck the chakra in...shameheda just sucks chakra...if it takes some hits it wont be able to suck chakra ever again...one hit is enough and naruto is master when it comes to deceiving enemies with simplest of tricks....hell he might even get caught just to feed it enough sage chakra to turn it to stone.... Samehade doesn't have to be in direct contact to eat the chakra, So the FRS would be eaten before it got near Samehade. To turn it to stone, Naruto would have to be touching it while he focus on absorbing natural energy, Except unlike Hungry Ghost Pain, Kisame isn't just gonna wait around. Kisame has already shown several times that he has no aversion to slicing off limbs, So Naruto letting himself get caught would be a terrible idea.

mattiaildivino

September 13, 2011, 03:23 PM

naruto wins,he has got the rasenshuriken and other techniques,and samehada can't absorbe sage chakra,we have just seen how much the preta path is better than samehada,but it failed with the sage chakra.

Rikudou King

September 13, 2011, 08:59 PM

Samehada was able to absorb multiple tails worth of chakra from the Hachibi and Hungry Path had no trouble absorbing a bunch of Sage chakra before he even came close to turning to stone.

Kazu-Sama

September 13, 2011, 11:40 PM

I think the whole 'Sage Chakra from a FRS will turn Samehada into stone' argument is wrong, personally. Naruto said himself that after having all the sage chakra sucked out of him he could endlessly summon more since he was stuck in place. Given that Bee kept moving while fighting with Kisame, I think that Naruto won't be able to keep summoning sage Chakra and will soon run out.

However, Kisame wins this easily anyway. He just shoots off the giant shark chakra absorbing attack

xXan

September 14, 2011, 01:58 AM

I said this before and i am going to do so again.

00:00:00 -> Fight starts.
00:00:05 -> Naruto implants a kunai in Kisame's brain before Kisame even knows the fight realy started.
00:00:30 -> Naruto is eating Ramen. Hey i whant some!

LnDRash

September 14, 2011, 08:34 AM

mattiaildivino

September 14, 2011, 03:42 PM

I said this before and i am going to do so again.

00:00:00 -> Fight starts.
00:00:05 -> Naruto implants a kunai in Kisame's brain before Kisame even knows the fight realLy started.
00:00:30 -> Naruto is eating Ramen. Hey i WAnt some!
ahahhahah I've been laughing till now!(but improve your english!) anyway you are right,naruto is too fast,he punched kisame in volume 54 in a flash. anyway I doubt samehada can eat sage chakra,and naruto can use some clones to take energy.

Preta path>>> than samehada,but it turned into stone with a lot of sage chakra,samehada would turn into stone sooner.

Kazu-Sama

September 14, 2011, 05:26 PM

Preta path>>> than samehada,but it turned into stone with a lot of sage chakra,samehada would turn into stone sooner.

See my quote above. As naruto says here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v47/c435/3.html - he's unable to move so he can summon Sage Chakra endlessly. Note that Preta path had already sucked him dry of sage chakra, and sucked his sage chakra-imbued moves dry too. It takes a hell of a lot of sage chakra absorbed to turn somebody to stone, and I don't think Kisame will just let Naruto stand there.

hakuthehedgehog

September 14, 2011, 05:43 PM

See my quote above. As naruto says here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v47/c435/3.html - he's unable to move so he can summon Sage Chakra endlessly. Note that Preta path had already sucked him dry of sage chakra, and sucked his sage chakra-imbued moves dry too. It takes a hell of a lot of sage chakra absorbed to turn somebody to stone, and I don't think Kisame will just let Naruto stand there.

Naruto could let Samehada bite him and pin him down while taking Narutal energy, turning it into stone, or pinning Kisamehada in a full Nelson while taking Narutal energy.

However, Naruto doesn't need any of that: with RM he can just blitz Kisame and Nail him with a mini FRS in the back before he can even finish a thought.

Kazu-Sama

September 14, 2011, 05:58 PM

Naruto could let Samehada bite him and pin him down while taking Narutal energy, turning it into stone, or pinning Kisamehada in a full Nelson while taking Narutal energy.

However, Naruto doesn't need any of that: with RM he can just blitz Kisame and Nail him with a mini FRS in the back before he can even finish a thought.

Speed-blits aside - which, incidentally is something else I want to argue against - Then I personally highly doubt Naruto would have the cunning and skills to pull off being hit with Samehada, catching it (how?) and then summoning as much sage Chakra as is needed to turn it into stone.The design of Samehada means that any attempt to hold it in place with whatever will be doomed to fail, short of impaling your own hand. And I think Kisame has shown the speed and strength not to be caught by Naruto in a 'full nelson' - especially while underwater.

As for the speed issue of Naruto going RM and beating Kisame straight off the bat, can I point out that Bee has shown similar speeds to A, who has shown similar speeds to Naruto. So if Kisame can keep up with (and match) Bee then while he may not be faster than Naruto, he'll be fast enough not to be destroyed instantly. The lightning pencil showed us that.

And besides, as soon as Kisame throws a giant shark bullet into the fray, Naruto is screwed. A Rasushuriken would make it bigger - and even it if turns to stone, you still have a gigantic stone shark flying towards you.

Rikudou King

September 14, 2011, 10:31 PM

xXan

September 15, 2011, 01:51 AM

From the recent chapter its more evident then ever that this whole Raiton Armor Speed is highly overrated, which in turn means the same applies to Naruto's Chakra Mode.

Kisame could react to v2 Bee so he can react to Naruto as well, simple as that, the speed gap between Bee, Naruto and Raikage isn't huge.

The only ones getting speedblitzed are fodders, not S-Class Shinobi's with 4+ Speed Stats.
If not for his teleport (instant action) he would have lost his head to Raikage... Last time i looked Kisame can't teleport out of the way... Hell Sasuke got speedblitzed but he had counters... Another instant action, SUSANO and Amaterasu. He was a complete STATUE to Raikage.

So we got 2 super fast people that would end up getting speedblitzed if not for direct counters. There normal speed would be nothing that can get them out of the way.

Now unless you got something like that from Kisame he is getting speedblitzed.

PS. Naruto in full speed is way faster then Bee in lvl 2.

PPS. the 3'th Raikage is not even as fast as the 4'th Raikage. If he was just as fast Raikage would have stated that now that Minato and my fater are gone i am the ...bla bla bla. The 3'th is a tank but is slower then the 4'th.

Kazu-Sama

September 15, 2011, 06:43 AM

If not for his teleport (instant action) he would have lost his head to Raikage... Last time i looked Kisame can't teleport out of the way... Hell Sasuke got speedblitzed but he had counters... Another instant action, SUSANO and Amaterasu. He was a complete STATUE to Raikage.

So we got 2 super fast people that would end up getting speedblitzed if not for direct counters. There normal speed would be nothing that can get them out of the way.

Now unless you got something like that from Kisame he is getting speedblitzed.

PS. Naruto in full speed is way faster then Bee in lvl 2.

First of all, I love your posting spree. About 10 fights had 'last post by Xxan'

Secondly, Bee without a Chakra cloak of any kind was keeping up with the Raikage when Naruto and him were fighting A and Tsunade. Now if that's not a hint about speed I don't know what is

Secondly, Naruto can't teleport. I have no idea where you got that notion from, he's not Minato or Madara. He can Shunsuin, but so can quite literally EVERY OTHER NINJA TO HAVE EVER LIVED. Sure, some are better than others, but at the end of the day if it's dodgable using shunsuin, then all Kisame has to do is react fast enough and he can dodge it. And we saw how fast he can react to a pencil. And as for Sasuke getting speedblitZed, he was outpaced but his head wasn't knocked off in a second, which is what people on here are suggesting will happen to Kisame. He was still able to fight, and have a good fight at that.

Fact remains, as soon as Kisame launches the shark bullet it's over. And he has the reaction speeds to get one off.

xXan

September 15, 2011, 07:08 AM

@Kazu-Sama

First of all, I love your posting spree. About 10 fights had 'last post by Xxan'

And? What is the problem? Me posting something on topic in multiple topics? Well gues what that is what i am suposed to do here. I fail to see what the problems is... Or you just felt the need to be offensive?

In all those topics (most of) i had people direcly replaing to me. Again i faill to understand why you need to be rude expecialy when i am doing nothing to brake any rules on the forums.

Secondly, Bee without a Chakra cloak of any kind was keeping up with the Raikage when Naruto and him were fighting A and Tsunade. Now if that's not a hint about speed I don't know what is

So what? The same applies to Sasuke to the point where Raikage used his full speed. Casual speed is irelevant. Also Raikage was fighting Naruto at the same time. In other words 2 on 1 and Bee was jumping in from time to time.
What you faill to understand is that one of the fastest peeps in this manga with a SHARINGAN was a STATUE to Raikage.
Also when Bee charged at Kisame all Kisame was able to do is move Samehada a little in front of him.
Now if Minato can't dodge out of Raikage's way then Kisame sure as hell can't. Ignoring ST of course. But Kisame does not have that or any other type of insant defence.

Secondly, Naruto can't teleport. I have no idea where you got that notion from, he's not Minato or Madara.

And you see me mentioning Naruto's name anywhere in that sentence? I was of course refering to Minato and his enounter with Raikage... When i said teleporting i belived its damn obvious i was refering to Minato... Also yes i know what shunshin no jutsu is and does.

Kisame has to do is react fast enough and he can dodge it. And we saw how fast he can react to a pencil.

No, that would mean Kisame is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above Minato in reaction times and speed. Go ahead and prove that... If Minato can't react to Raikage by moving his body and its only able to notice Raikage when he is 1 cm from his face and instantly teleport away Kisame will need reflexes and speed that are WAY, WAY above Minato to react to a faster attack (Naruto's) and move away before the kunai ends in his head.

And as for Sasuke getting speedblitZed, he was outpaced but his head wasn't knocked off in a second, which is what people on here are suggesting will happen to Kisame. He was still able to fight, and have a good fight at that.

Sasuke was completly dominated when Raikage activated his max speed move. He was a STATUE, the only thing he could do is use a instant action (activating Amaterasu). If not for Susano he would have no way to defent himself.

Fact remains, as soon as Kisame launches the shark bullet it's over. And he has the reaction speeds to get one off.

No, facts:

1-He can even make 1 hand seal before Naruto hits him. If Minato can't do shit before Raikage is 1 cm from his face then unless you belive and can prove Kisame is leaps and bounds above him in reaction times and speed then he dies before he even NOTICESES the attack. He will be hit by a FASTER attack then what almost killed Minato.
2-The shark is a missile attack. If Raikage can move out of Amaterasu's way then Naruto moves out of the sharks way EASY.
3-If the shark thing does not hit a chakra jutsu then its useless. Gai's moved disperesed it like nothing and Naruto has a shield around him to stop most of the damage... Now the shark will probably absorb the shield under normal circumstances BUT i don't belive it can absorb it all in a 1cm distance before the impact.
Juugo with a SHIELD in front of himself got pierced TROUGH that shield and TROUGH his chest from 1 punch of Raikage's. Naruto was blockign them with his bare hands after Raikage was hitting as hard as he could to kill Naruto.
4- That attack is direcly design to counter big jutsus. So unless Naruto trows a FRS i see no reason why he would do that move.

Kazu-Sama

September 15, 2011, 08:12 AM

@Kazu-Sama

And? What is the problem? Me posting something on topic in multiple topics? Well gues what that is what i am suposed to do here. I fail to see what the problems is... Or you just felt the need to be offensive?

In all those topics (most of) i had people direcly replaing to me. Again i faill to understand why you need to be rude expecialy when i am doing nothing to brake any rules on the forums.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was not trying to offend you here, I merely found it entertaining - and not in a malicious way

So what? The same applies to Sasuke to the point where Raikage used his full speed. Casual speed is irelevant. Also Raikage was fighting Naruto at the same time. In other words 2 on 1 and Bee was jumping in from time to time.
What you faill to understand is that one of the fastest peeps in this manga with a SHARINGAN was a STATUE to Raikage.

I've addressed this in another post, but I'll repeat myself. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v49/c463/13.html and the next couple of pages to me seem like Sasuke is standing there, using Sus and Ama at the same time. Not trying to run around after A and failing. So yes, Sasuke does look like a statue. Mainly because he actually IS being immobile.

Also when Bee charged at Kisame all Kisame was able to do is move Samehada a little in front of him.
Now if Minato can't dodge out of Raikage's way then Kisame sure as hell can't. Ignoring ST of course. But Kisame does not have that or any other type of insant defence.

So you're saying Kisame can only raise Samehada when Naruto attacks? I fail to see the problem with that. He raises it, absorbs chakra, and then gets healed whereas Naruto is down a bit of chakra. Rinse and repeat

And you see me mentioning Naruto's name anywhere in that sentence? I was of course refering to Minato and his enounter with Raikage... When i said teleporting i belived its damn obvious i was refering to Minato... Also yes i know what shunshin no jutsu is and does.

No, that would mean Kisame is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above Minato in reaction times and speed. Go ahead and prove that... If Minato can't react to Raikage by moving his body and its only able to notice Raikage when he is 1 cm from his face and instantly teleport away Kisame will need reflexes and speed that are WAY, WAY above Minato to react to a faster attack (Naruto's) and move away before the kunai ends in his head.

You're refering to Minato in reference to speed, then? If I understand your point correctly, you're saying that Naruto > Minato > A > B > Kisame? First of all, Naruto (as I said) can't teleport. How did he escape then during the Naruto vs A match, short of shunsuin? And if Naruto can use Shunsuin, then what's to stop Kisame using it?
All Naruto showed in his battle with A was that he could MATCH A's speed in RM. He never showed he was faster, and in fact short of Shunsuin'ing away, would have been KO'd.

No, facts:

2-The shark is a missile attack. If Raikage can move out of Amaterasu's way then Naruto moves out of the sharks way EASY.
3-If the shark thing does not hit a chakra jutsu then its useless. Gai's moved disperesed it like nothing and Naruto has a shield around him to stop most of the damage... Now the shark will probably absorb the shield under normal circumstances BUT i don't belive it can absorb it all in a 1cm distance before the impact.
Juugo with a SHIELD in front of himself got pierced TROUGH that shield and TROUGH his chest from 1 punch of Raikage's. Naruto was blockign them with his bare hands after Raikage was hitting as hard as he could to kill Naruto.
4- That attack is direcly design to counter big jutsus. So unless Naruto trows a FRS i see no reason why he would do that move.

I agree that without Naruto using FRS then the shark might not be as effective. But it'll still be effective. What shield does Naruto have? And the reason Gai's technique dispelled it is because it was such a powerful concussive wind with NO CHAKRA ADDED that it could disperse it. Tell me how Naruto, short of pulling the Banana fan out of his jumpsuit, could disperse it without feeding it any chakra.

1-He can even make 1 hand seal before Naruto hits him. If Minato can't do shit before Raikage is 1 cm from his face then unless you belive and can prove Kisame is leaps and bounds above him in reaction times and speed then he dies before he even NOTICESES the attack. He will be hit by a FASTER attack then what almost killed Minato.

This sort of quote is why I gave up in the tournament. Despite me giving some valid arguments against Naruto's speed being so incredibly high he can win without even trying, fanboys still use OMGNARUTOISSOFAST as an excuse to win any match. EVER. I've already covered this in another part of this, though, so I'll leave it

xXan

September 15, 2011, 08:41 AM

@Kazu-Sama

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was not trying to offend you here, I merely found it entertaining - and not in a malicious way

Heh no problem it happends to me to from time to time. I am at work when i post around here and i do so when i have time to spare. I work at a computer (well obviously lol) and i don't have work to do constantly.

1h to go and i can go home for today, can't w8:P

I've addressed this in another post, but I'll repeat myself. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v49/c463/13.html and the next couple of pages to me seem like Sasuke is standing there, using Sus and Ama at the same time. Not trying to run around after A and failing. So yes, Sasuke does look like a statue. Mainly because he actually IS being immobile.

When Susano is up you can still move. This is just like in part 1 where he was unable to keep up with Lee even if his eyes where able. This is also the reason why Karin states that.

So you're saying Kisame can only raise Samehada when Naruto attacks? I fail to see the problem with that. He raises it, absorbs chakra, and then gets healed whereas Naruto is down a bit of chakra. Rinse and repeat

No i said he can do that vs lvl 2 Bee. If Naruto charges at full speed he is not going to even see him.
Minato vs a slower attack was unable to see Raikage before he was 1 cm from his face.

You're refering to Minato in reference to speed, then? If I understand your point correctly, you're saying that Naruto > Minato > A > B > Kisame? First of all, Naruto (as I said) can't teleport. How did he escape then during the Naruto vs A match, short of shunsuin? And if Naruto can use Shunsuin, then what's to stop Kisame using it?
All Naruto showed in his battle with A was that he could MATCH A's speed in RM. He never showed he was faster, and in fact short of Shunsuin'ing away, would have been KO'd.

Let me put this again:
Minato is in speed and reaction times > Kisame. Hope you agree.
Then Minato was only able to dodge a attack from Raikage (and notice the attack) when it was 1 cm from his face. Going by this Raikage would have impacted Kisame face even IF Kisame could teleport away because he is slower then Minato.

Now going by this Kisame is not going to be hit by Raikage, but someone FASTER then Raikage.

If Naruto can move his ENTIRE BODY when Raikage is 1 cm from his face and comign FULL FORCE (with sunshin included) then yes he is FASTER then Raikage by a good amounth.

Also what is stoping Kisame from using sunshin? The fact that he never showed to be able to do it and any speed feat like that. Minato himself can use sunshin no jutsu but had to teleport out of Raikage way.

I agree that without Naruto using FRS then the shark might not be as effective. But it'll still be effective. What shield does Naruto have? And the reason Gai's technique dispelled it is because it was such a powerful concussive wind with NO CHAKRA ADDED that it could disperse it. Tell me how Naruto, short of pulling the Banana fan out of his jumpsuit, could disperse it without feeding it any chakra.

In RM Naruto has a chakra shield like in biju mode. That is how he was blocking Raikage's punches and not getting ripped in half.

Now if a attack that was not even able to KO Kisame can disperse easy as hell the shark jutsu then Naruto in RM should be able to tank and same would go for SM.
But of course he can just speed out of the way. He can also stop the jutsu from getting cast by hitting Kisame before Kisame can do hand seals.

I would also like to tell you that for Kisame to use handseals he needs to DISARM HIMSELF. He can't do hand seals with Samehada in his hand. This would be a horible idea. He would need to brace the sword on his body or something. In other words the chanses of Kisame actualy hitting Naruto with this is close to 0%.

This sort of quote is why I gave up in the tournament. Despite me giving some valid arguments against Naruto's speed being so incredibly high he can win without even trying, fanboys still use OMGNARUTOISSOFAST as an excuse to win any match. EVER. I've already covered this in another part of this, though, so I'll leave it

Just like flash in DC Comics. Speed is a great weapon. Also it was proven by Raikage that even someone on Minato's level would get decapitated if he could not teleport. So i think this is more then valid.
Hell i don't like Sasuke spamming amaterasu, susano and arrows but if he can do it then i accept that.

LnDRash

September 15, 2011, 01:04 PM

1-He can even make 1 hand seal before Naruto hits him. If Minato can't do shit before Raikage is 1 cm from his face then unless you belive and can prove Kisame is leaps and bounds above him in reaction times and speed then he dies before he even NOTICESES the attack. He will be hit by a FASTER attack then what almost killed Minato.

And at the same time Sage Naruto can not only dodge but completely counter a Raiton Powered Raikage without the aid of his chakra shroud. While Sage Naruto may be fast, he's not as fast as you make him because otherwise the whole Pain fight would have been BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! its over? wtf happened? Thats clearly not the case because except for Azura Path who was aiming for Tsunade nothing like that ever happened to Pain.

That doesn't even realy matter though because as soon as Naruto comes even close to Kisame he will automatically lose a large bunch of his chakra, thus instantly slow and power down, thats how physics work in the Narutoverse.

I'am also convinced Kisame's reactions may not be on the same level as Minato's, but if he can avoid a raiton charged high speed projectile from point black range then his reactions are fine enough to lift his sword and block the majority of the damage just like he did against Bee.

Juugo with a SHIELD in front of himself got pierced TROUGH that shield and TROUGH his chest from 1 punch of Raikage's. Naruto was blockign them with his bare hands after Raikage was hitting as hard as he could to kill Naruto.

Yet Naruto managed to break his ankle while in Chakra Mode. Naruto was only able to block the Raikage's punches because A) he lost his good hand and B) unlike against Juugo the Raikage was jumping upwards instead of charging forward, so he had no aid from momentum behind is attack.

Under those same circumstances Naruto would be pierced just as easily.

You also downplay Bee's feats when you say Naruto is leaps and bounds above his speed. This guy in base mode could keep up with Raikage just fine while Naruto was unable to get past the Raikage until he was finally able to dodge him in the last blink of an eye thanks to his "parents love powerup".

The speed gap between those three characters is minimal at best.

No point arguing though because by now I'am completely convinced nothing will change your mind about this 0.05 seconds speeblitz (with some imaginary kunai Naruto's not even using anymore) so just have fun believing that.

xXan

September 16, 2011, 05:43 AM

@LnDRash

And at the same time Sage Naruto can not only dodge but completely counter a Raiton Powered Raikage without the aid of his chakra shroud. While Sage Naruto may be fast, he's not as fast as you make him because otherwise the whole Pain fight would have been BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! BAM! its over? wtf happened? Thats clearly not the case because except for Azura Path who was aiming for Tsunade nothing like that ever happened to Pain.

The 3'th is NOT as fast as the 4'th. So this hole thing goes out the window. Naruto in SM is something like Sasuke with a sharingan. He can't move as fast as Raikage BUT he can predict where the hit will be.
Hell going by what you stated Juugo is as fast as Raikage as he was able to block him with a shield lol. Hell Sasuke also was able to get a hit in... Most of the time Raikage whent slower then he could for plot reasons.

That doesn't even realy matter though because as soon as Naruto comes even close to Kisame he will automatically lose a large bunch of his chakra, thus instantly slow and power down, thats how physics work in the Narutoverse.

LOL just like in the cave right? Kisame/Samehada need to make a councious though to activate the ability. If they can hit before that happends its irrelevant. Even when Bee charged in his lvl 2 form Samehada was able to absorb the chakra ONLY AFTER the hit. This time if Naruto implants a kunai in his head its irrelevant what chakra Samehada can take. Even if we asume it could heal Kisame and bring him back from the dead (makes no sense) his memories are not going to grow back. So he is going to be like a new born baby.

I am also convinced Kisame's reactions may not be on the same level as Minato's, but if he can avoid a raiton charged high speed projectile from point black range then his reactions are fine enough to lift his sword and block the majority of the damage just like he did against Bee.

Bee was slower. Also if Minato can notice a slower attack when its 1 cm from his face and move away only because of ST Kisame is not going to block a faster attack.

Yet Naruto managed to break his ankle while in Chakra Mode. Naruto was only able to block the Raikage's punches because A) he lost his good hand and B) unlike against Juugo the Raikage was jumping upwards instead of charging forward, so he had no aid from momentum behind is attack.

Under those same circumstances Naruto would be pierced just as easily.

What? Naruto receved full powered punched from a Raikage that stated HE IS GOING TO KILL HIM and he was doing his BEST to do so. Naruto damaged his ankle because of the position it was in. The chakra shield can protect from incoming damage but if you hold your leg in place in something and then you twist your leg it will be damaged as the shield around your leg has nothing to do with the twisting forces applied INSIDE the shield on your joint.

You also downplay Bee's feats when you say Naruto is leaps and bounds above his speed. This guy in base mode could keep up with Raikage just fine while Naruto was unable to get past the Raikage until he was finally able to dodge him in the last blink of an eye thanks to his "parents love powerup".

I am not. That was casual speed Naruto and Raikage, the same one Juugo was blocking. Raikage stated that only 1 peep before Naruto could block and has done so to his max speed attack. Bee was getting in the way when this 2 where targeting 1 another. Its not like he was 1vs1 anybody. Bee was barely able to keep up with Naruto running in the forest. Casual speed =/= max speed. In 1 even Juugo can keep up and in the other Sasuke is a statue. That is the diference. Raikage was stated to be so fast that not even the sharingan can keep up (Shi). In his fight with Bee Sasuke clearly stated he had no problem to dodge Bee because of his sharingan and linear attacks from Bee.

So we have Minato dodging when the attack was 1 cm from his face with ST, Sasuke a complete statue. Kisame would need to show reaction times and speed way above this 2 to be considered for blocking/dodging.