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View Full Version : Theory Did Byakuya kill his Grandfather?



Mifune_Taichou
November 16, 2009, 11:36 AM
Ok hear me out here. I got to thinking about this because i was rereading that chapter where Renji meets Byakuya for the first time-there is an old guy there that everyone assumes is Byakuyas grandad. However on closer inspection at least to me he really doesnt look like Kuchiki Ginrei. what is more that old man was acting subservient to Byakuya and i cant imagine his grandad doing that.

What else do we know-Byakuya replaced his grandad as both 6th div captain and head of the Kuchiki house. what we know from Urahara is that one cannot retire from being a captain-you have to either be killed on the job or be promoted to div 0. Now if that old man ISNT Kuchiki Ginrei the Ginrei is either dead or in div 0. If we go with the dead version for a second, Byakuya said hed only shown Senkei to one other person who was heavily implied to have been killed by Byakuya. Now until Aizen made arrancar there have been no proper wars that we know of and the only opponent Byakuya might have encountered that could force him to use Senkei would be a shinigami captain. Besides it seems to me that only a family member could anger Byakuya so much-lets not the next time he used senkei it was indirectly because of family matters.

Its a crazy theory i know but let me know if anyone thinks it makes sense.

Gran Maestro
November 16, 2009, 12:21 PM
what we know from Urahara is that one cannot retire from being a captain-you have to either be killed on the job or be promoted to div 0.

A captain can retire, the captain of 3rd division retired:

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-108/16

IMO Byakuya's grandfather stepped down after Byakuya became strong enough to be a captain.

conn-man
November 16, 2009, 12:31 PM
the old man from renjis flashback looks a lot like the captain we saw in the pendulum arc, just an older, maybe kinder version seeing as it would have been about 80 years later between the two points.

i like that you made me remember that byakuya killed someone with senkei in the past, im very curious to find out who it could have been, i hope kubo will tell us at some point.

Gecko Moria
November 16, 2009, 04:49 PM
Byakuya seems to be a very honorable person who cares a lot about family even if it didn't seem like it when he was trying to execute Rukia. However, that was only because he made a vow to his parents (family) to never disobey the rules again. I doubt he would kill his Grandfather to attain the captaincy.

Mifune_Taichou
November 17, 2009, 09:20 AM
Byakuya seems to be a very honorable person who cares a lot about family even if it didn't seem like it when he was trying to execute Rukia. However, that was only because he made a vow to his parents (family) to never disobey the rules again. I doubt he would kill his Grandfather to attain the captaincy.

I didnt mean he did it to get the captaincy-I'm thinking only someone close to him can infuriate him enough to force him to use Senkei. I think the fact he mention he actually killed someone with it is significant because Kt doesnt just say things like that-usually they come back up when you least expect it. Hell even Hitsugaya saying to Kira to move away when he fought Gin was forshadowing and that was years in advance.

Also @ Gran Maestro:

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-106/14

Here Urahara plainly states no one can withdraw from the Gotei 13. whatever Shunsui says, I trust the word of the head of the detention unit more.

Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u
November 17, 2009, 09:33 AM
No she didn't, she got promoted to squad 0.

No in the pendelum arc its said by Unohana I think, that the Captain of the 3rd Division retired (Rose took his/her place) and the Captain of the 10th Division was KIA, and the Captain of the 12th Division got promoted.
Byakuya didn't kill his granddad its specifically stated by Tousen, that the only person in the history of the Gotei 13 to kill a Captain in order to attain Captaincy was Zaraki Kenpachi.
/thread

Darth Executor
November 17, 2009, 09:34 AM
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-106/14

Here Urahara plainly states no one can withdraw from the Gotei 13. whatever Shunsui says, I trust the word of the head of the detention unit more.

He didn't withdraw, he retired.
[hr]

No in the pendelum arc its said by Unohana I think, that the Captain of the 3rd Division retired (Rose took his/her place) and the Captain of the 10th Division was KIA, and the Captain of the 12th Division got promoted.
Byakuya didn't kill his granddad its specifically stated by Tousen, that the only person in the history of the Gotei 13 to kill a Captain in order to attain Captaincy was Zaraki Kenpachi.
/thread

I got old man kuchiki and that chick captain who moved to squad 0 mixed up.

Mifune_Taichou
November 17, 2009, 09:43 AM
He didn't withdraw, he retired.
<hr noshade size="1">


I got old man kuchiki and that chick captain who moved to squad 0 mixed up.

to retire is to withdraw. It is the same thing. It would be imposisble to retire without ending up in the maggots nest. Did Tousen say Zaraki was the only one? pls link because I dont remember that

conn-man
November 17, 2009, 11:24 AM
you guys are putting to much faith in this rule that you have to go to the maggots nest if you retire, your talking about a prison. soul society is not gonna put an old captain that has served his time and is the head of a noble family in to prison filled with the crazies of soul society. if the old captain kuchki wants to retire then he will get to retire with out any issues.

Gran Maestro
November 17, 2009, 11:38 AM
Also @ Gran Maestro:

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/-106/14

Here Urahara plainly states no one can withdraw from the Gotei 13. whatever Shunsui says, I trust the word of the head of the detention unit more.

I think if you are old enough, you can retire.

poobert
November 17, 2009, 04:59 PM
They might retire in the human world and take a gigai which seals their powers. That was Uruhaha's "punishment", but for an old man, that could be retirement.

To be honest, I think there are more subtleties to the law that puts Shinigami's in the magots nest. Why is kukaku not in the magots nest? She is easily stronger than most Shinigami, but completely unaffiliated. If her rank in the Shiba clan lets her stay by herself in her house, then there is no reason any Shinigami who is the member of a house can't do the same. Byakuya's grandfather could have just retired home.

Mifune_Taichou
November 17, 2009, 05:23 PM
I guess so, it would be pretty stupid if the rule Urahara mentioned was absolute but this is Soul Society and we know the central 46 are complete retards (Thank fuck Aizen killed the shit out of them lol).

I just wander-WHO did Byakuya kill? It must be significant or else it wouldnt be mentioned. He could have stopped at sayin "this for i reveal only to those I have sworn to kill" instead of going on to define that hes only used it on one person before. That person must be somehow significant. Lets not forget Byakuya used to be a hothead

White Silver King
November 17, 2009, 05:25 PM
no proper wars that we know of

Quincy war?

Mifune_Taichou
November 17, 2009, 05:36 PM
Quincy war?

Unless a Quincy used Final Form i cant imagine hed ever be strong enough to challenege Kuchiki Byakuya to the point where he'd use Senkei.

kkck
November 17, 2009, 06:14 PM
Unless a Quincy used Final Form i cant imagine hed ever be strong enough to challenege Kuchiki Byakuya to the point where he'd use Senkei.

I could imagine the top quincys being on par with captains(say ishida's dad) but there is another BIG issue with this theory. The quincy massacre took place 200 years before the current storyline which means byakuya was merely a kid back then(if not even born lol). Quite frankly, the quincy final form would give a quincy power superior to that of a captain lol...

I always imagined byakuya used senkei to kill whoever actually killed his grandpa but I guess we have no reason to suggest such a thing. One thing that makes me believe at least ginrei kuchiki was not a traitor was that it seems as if such a thing would force the family to be removed from the noble families. I mean, just being killed by a hollow screwed the kaien family, actual treason would certainly harm them. In any case, I doubt byakuya killed ginrei.

As for kuchiki retiring, I do think there is a way for him to do so. I mean, all he has to do is drop his position as captain which would leave him as a normal titleless shinigami. Once he is in that position he can just declare the leave of absence and enjoy his final years in peace. I do think it is likely he was killed though, considering how long shinigamis live it makes no sense a period of just 100 years made him die of old age.

Jiggy-Ninja
November 17, 2009, 08:13 PM
you guys are putting to much faith in this rule that you have to go to the maggots nest if you retire, your talking about a prison. soul society is not gonna put an old captain that has served his time and is the head of a noble family in to prison filled with the crazies of soul society. if the old captain kuchki wants to retire then he will get to retire with out any issues.
I think you got cause and effect mixed up here. It's not "If you withdraw from the Gotei 13, you are sent to the Maggot's Nest". Rather, it's "For people we send to the Maggot's Nest, we tell their friends and family that the 'withdrew'".

I don't know if the Japanese word Shunsui used for "retire" is the same as the word Kisuke used for "withdraw", since I haven't bothered to look at a raw.

My gut tells me that that Captain did retire, and potentially Grandpa Kuchiki too. I doubt the Gotei 13 would keep people in forever when they started to deteriorate with age (well, everyone except Shigekuni deteriorates with age at least :p), so there probably is an established procedure for retiring.

My guess is that Kisuke's words mean that you can't just quite the Gotei 13 anytime you feel like it. Like how the military works (at least in US, I can't speak for other countries). You sign a contract stating that you will work for the military for a certain amount of time (I think 3-4 years). Until that time is up, you aren't allowed to quit. The only way out is a less-than-honorable or a dishonorable discharge. (Basically, you get fired). Once you're time's up, you can either renew the contract or take an honorable discharge.

Gotei 13 might work a similar way, except the "contract" you agree to is much longer, all the way until the retirement age.

I could imagine the top quincys being on par with captains(say ishida's dad) but there is another BIG issue with this theory. The quincy massacre took place 200 years before the current storyline which means byakuya was merely a kid back then(if not even born lol). Quite frankly, the quincy final form would give a quincy power superior to that of a captain lol...

I always imagined byakuya used senkei to kill whoever actually killed his grandpa but I guess we have no reason to suggest such a thing. One thing that makes me believe at least ginrei kuchiki was not a traitor was that it seems as if such a thing would force the family to be removed from the noble families. I mean, just being killed by a hollow screwed the kaien family, actual treason would certainly harm them. In any case, I doubt byakuya killed ginrei.

As for kuchiki retiring, I do think there is a way for him to do so. I mean, all he has to do is drop his position as captain which would leave him as a normal titleless shinigami. Once he is in that position he can just declare the leave of absence and enjoy his final years in peace. I do think it is likely he was killed though, considering how long shinigamis live it makes no sense a period of just 100 years made him die of old age.
Kaien's family is called the Shiba clan. Shiba Kaien, Shiba Kukkaku, Shiba Ganju...

The reason that the Shiba clan fell wasn't because Kaien was killed by a Hollow. Being a military organization, I'd imagine that sort of thing would be fairly frequent.

Most likely, the clan fell from grace because they made a big fuss because they thought that Kaien was killed in cold blood by a Shinigami (Rukia).

It's unknown if Soul Society believes in "corruption of blood" (that the family of a criminal is "tainted" by their evil blood), but Soifon's remarks to Yoruichi during their reunion battle suggest that they do. So if Grandpa Kuchiki did commit a treason, it's possible that the whole Kuchiki clan might have suffered from it.

Banedor
November 18, 2009, 09:07 AM
I thought Byakuya used his bankai to kill the brother of that one armed girl that shot Ichigo into SS

Mifune_Taichou
November 18, 2009, 10:18 AM
I thought Byakuya used his bankai to kill the brother of that one armed girl that shot Ichigo into SS

Whaaat no, you;re very mixed up here dude. The borther is Shiba Kaien and he was taken over by a hollow and finsihed off by Rukia. Also i think somewhere it was implied him and Byakuya were friends, but dont ask me where.

Also where did the whole Ginrei is a traitor thing come from? I didnt say that there could be other reasons why him and Byakuya might have gotten into fisticuffs lol, like for example Byakuya marrying Hissana. He did say he "cut through the family's objections". maybe he meant it literally.

If not Ginrei I do wander who would have pissed Byakuya off enough to cause him to use Senkei.

btw i dunno about anyone else but If i were a captain and wanted to quit, and they tried to send me to the maggot's nest id rather fight them to the death. Didnt learn bankai for nothin lol

kkck
November 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
Shiba was far too old to be byakuya's friend IMHO. Given that byakuya called kaien "infuriatingly liberal man" I have my doubts about them really getting along lol.

I think whatever made byakuya use senkei in the past had to do either with his parents or grandpa. It makes no sense they died of natural causes since shinigami apparently live far more than a few centuries should they not be killed.

conn-man
November 18, 2009, 02:03 PM
for the time being until it is confirmed to be true or not, im gonna have to believe that this
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.04/09/
and this
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/

are the same person, imo its just the same guy but obviously older. he has what appear to be shinigami robes on, has the same mustache and sliked back hair, and judging by the dialouge on the next page he seems to in a position of authority and not subservient to byakuya. plus, the first time we see him its in chapter 98, the pendulumn arc is about 200 chapters later, its possible that kubo just tweked the design to make him look more like an older byakuya.

Gran Maestro
November 18, 2009, 04:44 PM
for the time being until it is confirmed to be true or not, im gonna have to believe that this
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.04/09/
and this
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/

are the same person

I don't think so.

When we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/) & this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/150/06/) and use Byakuya as a reference, we see that Unohana is a bit taller than this old guy. On the other hand, if we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.07/07/) and compare the shoulder heights, we see that Byakuya's grandfather is definitely taller than Unohana.

Mifune_Taichou
November 18, 2009, 04:58 PM
I don't think so.

When we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/) & this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/150/06/) and use Byakuya as a reference, we see that Unohana is a bit taller than this old guy. On the other hand, if we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.07/07/) and compare the shoulder heights, we see that Byakuya's grandfather is definitely taller than Unohana.

Yh I was gonna say he must have shrunk hardcore for that to be him. Or kt is just very inconsistent.

MissMinako
November 18, 2009, 05:35 PM
I do not believe Byakuya would kill his own grandfather. He seemed like a well- respected man and he's a member of the Kuchiki family, one of the noble houses in SS. The Kuchikis have very high status and authority. What I think happened is that Byakuya's grandfather simply became too old fot the job and retired as a captain when Byakuya was old enough to take his place. No way could the granddad have gone to the maggot's nest. He simply spent the rest of his days at the Kuchiki manor.

As for the whole "I've only shown this technique once before". I think Byakuya might be referring to his fight with Renji, when he used his bankai on him

Mifune_Taichou
November 18, 2009, 05:57 PM
I do not believe Byakuya would kill his own grandfather. He seemed like a well- respected man and he's a member of the Kuchiki family, one of the noble houses in SS. The Kuchikis have very high status and authority. What I think happened is that Byakuya's grandfather simply became too old fot the job and retired as a captain when Byakuya was old enough to take his place. No way could the granddad have gone to the maggot's nest. He simply spent the rest of his days at the Kuchiki manor.

As for the whole "I've only shown this technique once before". I think Byakuya might be referring to his fight with Renji, when he used his bankai on him

He wasnt-he was specifically referring to Senkei. The rest you may be right about.

kalik2k
November 19, 2009, 12:45 PM
Byakuya's Grandfather makes an appearance in Movie 3: Fade To Black, and I remember hearing somewhere that the 6th squad has always had a Kuchiki family member as it's Captain.

Could it be that as the family is noble and Central 46 can't interfere with the noble families he stepped down for Byakuya to take over?

zerocooldx
November 19, 2009, 04:11 PM
Pretty sure he probably just retired.

conn-man
November 19, 2009, 04:30 PM
I don't think so.

When we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/) & this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/150/06/) and use Byakuya as a reference, we see that Unohana is a bit taller than this old guy. On the other hand, if we look at this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.07/07/) and compare the shoulder heights, we see that Byakuya's grandfather is definitely taller than Unohana.

nice job with the height refrencing, but i still stand by the idea that it could just be a design change done by older age and because kubo wanted to change his design for the pendulum arc to make him look more badass and captainy.

but really they have the same mustache, hair, and face, they look the same in to many regards. who else was it supposed to be during the scene with rukia, byakuyas great grandfather?

Gran Maestro
November 19, 2009, 05:13 PM
who else was it supposed to be during the scene with rukia, byakuyas great grandfather?

Byakuya's aide, steward of the mansion perhaps.

conn-man
November 19, 2009, 05:25 PM
Byakuya's aide, steward of the mansion perhaps.

ah but your forgetting what i had to say about him earlier, back to the link i made to renjis flashback, go a couple pages further and you will see hes the one doing most of the talking and based on what he says i would put him in a position much higher than an aide or a butler. and hes got on shinigami robes and they look the same, why would they look so similar?

Gran Maestro
November 19, 2009, 06:05 PM
ah but your forgetting what i had to say about him earlier, back to the link i made to renjis flashback, go a couple pages further and you will see hes the one doing most of the talking and based on what he says i would put him in a position much higher than an aide or a butler. and hes got on shinigami robes and they look the same, why would they look so similar?

He says "This is not the place to talk. We will leave and await your response." I don't think these words necessarily indicate a person with higher authority. On the contrary, his humble posture looks like a servant's.

I don't understand which shinigami robes look the same, the clothes of this man (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/98/12/) and Byakuya's grandfather (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.04/09/) are very different.

Yans86
November 20, 2009, 06:11 AM
I don't think that Byakuya killed his own grandfather,but the "kuchiki" clan is quite interesting.....

One point first:Clothes or not,that person is not Ginrei or u should explain us why he is the only shinigami that in 50years aged more then every characters shown there.....

Like kalik I listened somewhere too that the 6th division is like the "Kuchiki stronghold"...so the first question that comes to my mind is:
Was Byakuya's father 6th division captain???
What provoked his demise?
Was Byakuya's mother a shinigami?

Crazy idea:Is there a possibility that Kuchiki Ginrei was captain at the time OldYama was...then some thousands years later he decided to retire to let his son(Byakuya's father) step in??
I won't be surprised if after byakuya's parents "death",the old man had to come back cause his nephew was too young....

It's interesting that Kubo didn't say anything about this weird situation....not a hint on Byakuya's parents death or Ginrei death,even if they "cross" with some of the "main" characters.....

I'm really curious in knowin if Ginrei was killed/incapacited by some Aizen plot at a certain point of the story......maybe is crazy,but seen that Gin/Byakuya became captains around the same time....indicating the demise of 2 captains....mmmmmmmm.........

I can see also the possibility for Byakuya to avenge his grandfather with senkei....against either a shinigami or some "strong hollow"....who that shinigami would be,I really don't know.....

Mifune_Taichou
November 20, 2009, 10:09 AM
I don't think that Byakuya killed his own grandfather,but the "kuchiki" clan is quite interesting.....

One point first:Clothes or not,that person is not Ginrei or u should explain us why he is the only shinigami that in 50years aged more then every characters shown there.....

Like kalik I listened somewhere too that the 6th division is like the "Kuchiki stronghold"...so the first question that comes to my mind is:
Was Byakuya's father 6th division captain???
What provoked his demise?
Was Byakuya's mother a shinigami?

Crazy idea:Is there a possibility that Kuchiki Ginrei was captain at the time OldYama was...then some thousands years later he decided to retire to let his son(Byakuya's father) step in??
I won't be surprised if after byakuya's parents "death",the old man had to come back cause his nephew was too young....

It's interesting that Kubo didn't say anything about this weird situation....not a hint on Byakuya's parents death or Ginrei death,even if they "cross" with some of the "main" characters.....

I'm really curious in knowin if Ginrei was killed/incapacited by some Aizen plot at a certain point of the story......maybe is crazy,but seen that Gin/Byakuya became captains around the same time....indicating the demise of 2 captains....mmmmmmmm.........

I can see also the possibility for Byakuya to avenge his grandfather with senkei....against either a shinigami or some "strong hollow"....who that shinigami would be,I really don't know.....

Thats pretty good thinking I think this could all be possible. Ginrei looks about as old as Yama. Also yh I agree that man is NOT ginrei. Unless he got b1tchified or something.

Oh man if Aizen turns out to be responsible....

kalik2k
November 20, 2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah but Yamamoto has been Captain-Commander since the beginning along with Kyorakou, Ukitake and Unohana, making them all Captains for around 250 years. 150 years before Turn Back The Pendulum arc and another 100 after it to present day. Ginrei was probably the 2nd or 3rd Kuchiki member to Captain squad 6.

It's also possible what with the 6th squad being the Kuchiki stronghold, Ginrei had to hold his position as Captain until Byakuya had learned Bankai. He wouldn't kill his own Grandfather anyway as the noble families are there to set examples for the rest of Soul Society.

One more thing to remember is that the Kuchiki clan is also responsible for the history records of Soul Society so it's possible Ginrei gave up his position as Captain but is keeping his responsibility for holding/guarding the history records.

Gran Maestro
November 20, 2009, 02:26 PM
Crazy idea:Is there a possibility that Kuchiki Ginrei was captain at the time OldYama was...then some thousands years later he decided to retire to let his son(Byakuya's father) step in??
I won't be surprised if after byakuya's parents "death",the old man had to come back cause his nephew was too young....

This is not a crazy idea, I always thought it was the case. Although it's not canon, the respect other captains showed him in the anime is a sign of his seniority. I don't think he barely managed to earn a position of captaincy at such an old age.

kkck
November 20, 2009, 02:35 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/13/
Doesn't seem like ginrei was a captain 100 years ago though. It would make sense if he was given his apparent age but given kyoraku's comment it seems he has been a captain for a shorter time than that.

Gran Maestro
November 20, 2009, 03:09 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/13/
Doesn't seem like ginrei was a captain 100 years ago though. It would make sense if he was given his apparent age but given kyoraku's comment it seems he has been a captain for a shorter time than that.

He wasn't a captain 100 years ago but perhaps he was a captain 2000 years ago. He possibly left his position to his son and took it on once his son died. It's hard to believe that such an old & noble person had no history of captaincy in Gotei 13.

kalik2k
November 20, 2009, 07:17 PM
How are you figuring this out? He was a captain 110 years ago... When the Turn Back The Pendulum arc is based... And Kyoraku, Ukitake, Unohana and Yammamoto were captains 150 years before the Turn Back The Pendulum, and seeing as how Ukitake and Kyoraku were the first captains how the hell was Genrei a captain 2000 years ago?

kkck
November 20, 2009, 09:28 PM
Not sure what you mean by kyoraku and ukitake being the first captains lol. All that was ever said is that they were the first graduates from the academy to become captains. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything beyond that is mere assumption or a completely baseless guess lol. Even if the theories involving them were true, it'd be nothing more than a lucky guess.

He wasn't a captain 100 years ago but perhaps he was a captain 2000 years ago. He possibly left his position to his son and took it on once his son died. It's hard to believe that such an old & noble person had no history of captaincy in Gotei 13.
Could be anything though. All we know is that at least the guy was not in the guard 100 years prior to the gaiden. It is weird though, specially considering his age and the fact he had captain class power(unless he acquired it in his old age which is kind of a stretch). On the other hand it is also true aging in bleach is extremely iffy to say the least. hiyori seems older than byakuya given that she was a VC when byakuya didn't even seem to be part of the gotei 13(there could be a number of things wrong with that though lol).

kalik2k
November 21, 2009, 08:00 AM
Well I suggest you watch episode 55 again then, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding what Yammamoto said...

"My faith in you was rewarded when you became the first captains of this academy which I created"

I don't see how at all that relates to the school all Soul Reapers attend, after all, you can't become a captain of a school can you... So it seems to me he's referring to the 13 protection squads.

Maybe Byakuya was born in Soul Society, which makes him younger than Hiyori, after all he did have parents and dead people can't age so Hiyori might look the same as when she died in the living world.

Gran Maestro
November 21, 2009, 10:57 AM
Well I suggest you watch episode 55 again then, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding what Yammamoto said...

"My faith in you was rewarded when you became the first captains of this academy which I created"

I don't see how at all that relates to the school all Soul Reapers attend, after all, you can't become a captain of a school can you... So it seems to me he's referring to the 13 protection squads.

Yamamoto founded the Shinigami Academy 2000 years ago and Shunsui & Ukitake are the first captains who are also graduates of this academy. There were many captains before them but they did not graduate from the academy because academy didn't exist then. Gotei 13 is far older than Shinigami Academy.

Xerneas
November 24, 2009, 10:35 AM
Yeah people always forget G13 is much, MUCH older than the Academy. Yamamoto isn't even the first Captain Commander! And goodness knows how long he was at the top. Its just that education was informal before the Academy....obviously the likes of Yama and Unohana had masters of their own. Its just like how educators and scholars were around long before Oxford.

About Ginrei and Byakuya's parents...I think they died in the Quincy War. They were already dead in TBTP when Byakuya looked like a teenager. Which in SS time means he was like 100 years old probably. So they likely died not long after he was born or when he was a tiny kid. Ginrei was likely a Captain before the Academy started and then Byakuya's father took over...and then Ginrei took over again until his grandson was ready. I don't think Kubo would show us a guy like that without showing him off in full later. So he's either Royal Guard now or we'll get a second TBTP...which could explain who Byakuya was talking about with the whole Senkei thing.

Travis
December 21, 2009, 01:26 AM
You guys have forgotten this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/07/

It's highly unlikely Byakuya's father could use ban kai.

zerocooldx
December 21, 2009, 01:02 PM
You guys have forgotten this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/07/

It's highly unlikely Byakuya's father couldn't use ban kai.

Well we never got to see anything about Byakuya's father, and no one was ever mentioned him. All we saw was Byakuya's grandfather who most certainly possessed Bankai. But talking about Byakuya's father, right now at least, is all just speculation.

UnknownQuincy
December 22, 2009, 12:49 AM
Now, it might not make much sense at first, but I can really see something like this happening. I think that there is a lot of history to the Noble Clans that Kubo could write, and the Kuchiki clan is paramount in that endeavor. The clans history is already writing itself as the story goes, for the purposes of the story (think Kaien), and I think that it is not out of line at all to think a Kuchiki elder could have been close to disgracing the family out of the Nobility and wound up dead to Senkai to stop this. Not to say I consider it plausible, but definitely entirely possible.

To further elaborate on the theory, if it was his father who was going to disgrace the Kuchiki clan and so had to die to Senkai, then his vow on his parents grave to always uphold the laws of Soul Society actually makes that much more sense.

If you had to kill your parents to save your families nobility, a vow on their grave to maintain the nobility of the family would mean worlds more than one without said cause.

Again, possible, not plausible.